Heitinga not happy with not starting

When Jags and Distin get crocked, will we get a Duffy/JH back pairing?

As he should be. He is our best CB. Cannot see the logic in him not playing.

Well with Gibson out there's a decent chance he'll start in midfield for a bit now. Though he isn't very good there, and it could just as easily be Neville moved there with Hibbert coming into the side, which is probably the better option.

It's a tough one for Johnny, we've got three very good centre-backs, it's pretty even between them. Heitinga had a terrible European Champs over the summer, I'm not sure if that counted against him or not. I'm not sure who I would drop to get him in the side, Jags has looked pretty good this year and Distin's height is such a plus. Maybe Moyes should be doing a bit more rotation between the three, though having a settled partnership is always good.

Why has Heitinga been left out??? He was by far our best defender last year, thats why he won his award at the end of last season!! All last season when he came in, he was like a ROCK in our defence. So what's changed???

Jags is fit, is what's changed Shaun and Moyes prefers him to Heitinga

Heitinga wasn't any worst than the rest of the Dutch team.

Jags and distin are very similar, solid but limited defenders. Heitinga is a ball playing cb which is what makes him a class act. Plus he has the gravesen factor in getting everyone up for it.

James, the three of them are very good defenders, the limitations really only apply to stuff unrelated to defending.....ok ok passing is fundamental but id rather they just nudged it to centre mid to do the 'clever' stuff. Agree re the Gravesen point, and we do need leaders. I still miss the bald boy.

Get Heitinga back in the line up. It was a great performance by Distin and Jagielka against Manchester United but Heitinga would have had a great game as well.

Heitinga should be on the team sheet for every game where we don't need Distin's pace and height. I can't believe that Distin is about 90 but still our quickest CB.

Why not play all 3?

We could go 5-3-2 or 3-5-2 whichever you prefer, with Baines and Coleman as advanced full backs.

Heitinga is intelligent enough to play as sweeper when we defend and can then step into midfield as we attack. That system would certainly suit our full backs who are both attack minded.

#864 They say it's an outdated formation and is just being used in Italy? But I always thought it's an interesting formation, so I'd give it a go.

Nice shout, Mark.

Heitenga was much better last year. He was better than Jagielka. But Jagielka had a bad year and seems to be playing better now.

In my view, Distin has been our best CB for several years now. His height, strength, and pace have saved our butts so many times.

If Distin works better with Jags, I'm fine with Johnny on the bench.

Thing is with Distin is that he is great at covering Baines and the space in behind him.

Baines obviously likes to get forward and a left sided centre half with pace who can fill that space is vital.

Remember in the first half of the United game, when Bainsey wasnt actually getting forward that much but got himself in a bad position with a ball forward and it looked as if the United forward(Rooney?) would have been in behind.....Distin just turned on the turbo and shut it down.

It seems to be who plays with Distin. Hes important to the way we play. But there is the age aspect.

Then Mark Lawrenson was saying in The Post that the Jag is our best defender. And he is a fucking good centre half and will be here when the other 2 have gone.

But I rate Heitnga very highly, great reader and organiser.....tricky.

Ultimately, Moysey knows a centre half and may be best to maximise the value Heitinga has left in the window? Im kinda thinking out loud there. He deserves first team football, needs it and will get a good club no worries. I would also back Moyes to bring in a good one to replace.

Johnnie has been here long enough to know Moyes by now. You get named Player Of The Season by the fans but Moyes thinks, What do they know?

Moyes cries none stop about no money and not enough goal power, he gets money, he gets a player called Kevin Marallas who scores two goals on his debut and what does Moyes do?

Yes, the lad is dropped for the next game.

It's been 10 years of the same thing, why is anyone surprised by what the tactically inept Moyes does?

I agree with Bobby. No manager would change a player when his team has won the first two games playing with lots of good football. Heitinga is NOT as good a defender as either Distin or Jagielka. Both centre backs win a high percentage of headers and do not give away as many free kicks in dangerous areas.

Mark Lawrenceson knows centre back play better than the article writers on here including myself... but I did play semi pro at both Southport and Buxton. Jags blocks lots of shots and crosses. Heitinga is not good in the air and not as committed as either Jags or Distin.

I said some time ago that he is a poor international in a poor Dutch team compared to the great teams of the past. Heitinga did play well last season but he has said publicly that he see's himself playing in a top team..eg; Top 4. He is another Bentdner who see's himself as better than he actually is.

If he wants away then so be it! Everton can do very well without him if he is not happy.

Just a thought: can't Johnny or Jags play right-back?

I feel for Heitinga, He's gone from being one of our best players last season to being back on the bench.

Distin has incredible pace and his height is a massive bonus for us, plus he's left footed and that's what pretty much guarantees his place in the starting 11.

Jagielka reads the game immensely but he is quite slow and has no passing ability what so ever unless it's a fifty yard hoof whereas Heitinga is quicker and can play the ball out of defence.

The team needs to be changed depending on who we play, the likes of united who are going to have more of the ball Jagielka is better suited, but when we are playing weaker teams who are going to have much less of the ball Heintinga should be automatic choice.

@Joe(874) - So which of the attacking players who'd totally dominated Villa would you have dropped for Mirallas, after his great debut against the mighty Leyton Orient?

Robin,

Oh I don't know, he could have at least put Mirallas on when Gibson went off after around 15 minutes instead of replacing a midfielder with a defender. Or does that not make sense?

David (#911):
I've got to agree, David. Mirallas was the man to put on and move Felli back in midfield.

But after going for it in two games, Davie goes back to what he likes best: Pip in midfield...

Trevor, feel your being a little harsh on Heitinga there.

Regular football with a settled partner is very important for centre halves and when hes had it hes flourished. People who don't rate him mention the poor tournament he had, previous one he was excellent.

Players have bad tournaments.....Rooney should be listed immediately by the Mancs on his tournament record!!

For me he is an excellent reader and fantastic positional player, hence the lack of need for all the blood thunder "commitment" play. He sees things early.

Since Lescott left and it was the Jag and Dist, we had never been as tight since until Heitinga was in last season.

I know Gibbo helps anyone he plays in front of & he came in and provided a real good, calm, ball retaining barrier in the holding role; he improved us & he will provide it this season for the Jag and Dist.

However, I thought Heitinga as an individual and the back 4 as a unit were very impressive 2nd half of last season & he can rightly feel pissed off.

Find it hard to think he wont be nabbed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Distin is a liability. I said before the semi-final on here if anyone remembers, that the man is an accident waiting to happen and so it proved.

OK, it was a lucky (or unlucky) prediction and I didn't come on here to gloat after because I was just too angry. I understand all about why he is so highly thought of because he is, in theory an amazing defender. He is quick and strong and has the ability to get back after strikers who break free and get the last ditch tackle in.

Bobby, your point about covering Baines is most likely spot on but as well as the ability to cover Baines while keeping balance, he also has the ability to inexplicably lose his balance, head the ball sideways, turn slower than the ferry (one I used prior to semi final) and miss-kick and misplace the ball all over the place. The ball seems to literally bounce off his shins like he's made of rubber sometimes.

Everyone on here seems to think the sun shines out of his arse but it's his pace and strength that give a false sense of defensive security.

Just like to pose a question to everyone. How many caps has he got for France? What top clubs has he played for to any success apart from Portsmouth? In summary, the man gives me a heart attack when he's in possession. Heitinga, despite his physical short-comings in comparison, would get my vote every time.

Conor - Ugh. Too true. Love Distin but would rather Johnny.

I wonder about Heitinga's comments “It's a bullet I must bite every year. I was also left out for most of our early games in the two previous seasons.

“But I was soon in the side. I don't expect to wait long to get into the starting line-up.”

There must be something about his character Moyes understands but we (understandably) don't see. I, too, expect to see him in the starting line-up. Can't think of a reason he shouldn't be. I guess he needs prodding of some sort and Moyes is providing it.

Remember reading Hiddink saying Dutch players first response to instruction is "Yeah, but".

You could be onto something there James. Maybe Johnny is the type of player who reacts to a challenge. He always finishes the season so well after initially being over looked! But rather than being a cute conspiracy by Moyes to bring the best out of him I think it's simply a case of picking brawn over brains.

Distin is a perfect physical specimen but has all the intelligence and co-ordination of a Giraffe. I bet he's a herbivore and all. Sorry lads I just have a pet hate for the player. He makes everything look so difficult and keeps an actual ball player out of the team.

This is football, not athletics. I think Moyes is a top manager but he consistently gets this one wrong for me. Seriously, Distin – just fuck off!

Conor - The Dutch in the Euros wasn't Johnny's best. Fuck, who knows. I'll guess Moyes is helping our Johnny pull his head out of his own ass. I anticipate Heitinga getting major playing time as the season goes on.

An alternative view might be, "Yeah, but".

Robin Cannon (post 904):

Like others have said, Mirallas was the man to replace Gibson, not Hibbert, a non-goalscoring full-back; we then saw a non-goalscoring midfielder Neville move into Gibson role.

Like you say, we had destroyed Villa, beaten United and given little Orient a hiding. Why can't Moyes understand that the opposition would have been more worried about EFC? Moyes should have gone with the confidence that was in the team and the feeling from the terraces. He doesn't do that; he talks Everton down before games, praises the opposition, and says how hard it will be.

If he wants to be a Top Four Manager, he must listen to Wenger & Fergie, they expect a win at WBA and places like that, no matter how well the opposition are playing. Moyes is negative, he is too cautious.

I have said many times on Toffeweb I don't want a manager who on the first day of the season tells me he will wait until we get 40 points and then take it from there... We are Everton Football Club, we have only been relegated twice in 134 years.

I have never ever thought at the start of any football season I hope we don't get relegated!! So why do Moyes and his fans make it a priority to get 40 points? If he is doing a brilliant job, why do you have this fear?

I know I will take flack for this but Moyes has been here 10 years, he is on a great wage, his job is safe and even if it wasn't he would get another job instantly, so why this fear of losing?

I just want to see an Everton team, that when playing at home to Stoke and others like them, that they have at least one shot on target. Last season we didn't and Stoke was not the only game we were embarrassed. Bolton & QPR etc also come to mind.

Ten years is more than enough to relax and form a pattern and style of play but even the most ardent of Moyes fans can not explain the pattern or formation of the team that will line up against Newcastle — and that's because Moyes doesn't know himself.