Late collapse loses vital points

Back to today, no ifs or buts – win at all costs. That means making a positive approach to the game, no "Let's not get beat first" attitude.

Naismith or Osman on the wing? Neither can play there so it doesn't really matter.

Coleman back to assist Mirallas to finally offer an attacking threat down the right...and he drops Mirallas.

Week after week it's the same thing! I wouldn't mind if we were winning games!

Jesus, I'm depressed. Well, enough of that. COYB

Lets see how it unravels !!

Howard celebrates his 300 game with yet another no clean sheet, do Everton really want to push for fourth, meaning Kenwright having to put his hand in his pocket. let Moyes go, he is offering nothing and we will limp home to another top ten finish, no European football, no trophy and lose top players.

We look forward to Reading visiting, at least it won't be another draw, we will lose!!!!

Spineless capitulation from all concerned

Thank you True Blue Bill for backing the team in the January. If Oldham win on Tuesday, the Board's position should be untenable. Come on, Kenwright apologists, bring on the excuses.

Norwich had scored 1 goal in 6 games before today.

Couldn't give a dam for the last minute goal (too much added time ref) because the two dropped points were enough to see off CL hopes.

75 minutes of solid improvement, there was desire and team work and passing, everything but goal scoring chances and we paid for that.

Fuck fuck fuck... sodding Norwich. My only hope now is finishing above Liverpool because I don't give a shit about the Europa. There goes another season of nothing and another season of hoping awaits for next season. Jesus christ.

Threw it away, bossed a game then lost it, That was a disgrace.

Need an attack-minded manager now. Never thought I'd want a change, but it's too much of the same failings now.

Watching Osman, Gibson, all of em "shoot" reminds me of playing with my kids years ago when they were little.... "Oooohhh THAT'S a good kick, well done!"

Absolutely pathetic. I was never much cop at football but I swear I could still hit a ball better than those wankers.

Europe....you're 'aving a Turkish!

Hopefully when he goes he can take Naismith, Osman and Neville with him.

At 75 mins Fellaini was tired and losing enthusiasm, Naismith had run his course and there were no substitutions in sight, then he takes off Jelavic for Mirallas, which wasn't really a game changing thing to do?

Some of the shooting out on display today was embarassing, but then again Jelavic really was never in a position to take advantage of any of it given his new alienated status somewhere out wide. Pathetic.

Steven Naismith. Fucking WHY???

Not bringing in players to boost a tiring squad is REALLY coming home to roost.

Thanks Mr Kenwright.

The sooner this self-serving pair are out of this club the better. We've achieved fuck all with them.

The ref, as usual, was garbage and ignored all the hugging in the area as well as the lunge that tore Fellaini's leg, this was a game we lost as soon as we scored.

Apparantly Chelsea, Arsenal, Leverkusen, Man Utd want this fucker...

There's a fair few today who haven't earned their wages, that also includes manager and coaches. Good job they will be off at the end of the season. Roll on summer.

Nope, I've not convinced myself either.

Naismith shouldnt be on the pitch. He should have gone off for Mirallas...not Jelavic. We sat back, and you cannot sit back against a team who have so much aerial strength. Sometimes it can work for...but you don't do it against Norwich, or Oldham. And we were hitting it too long, too often, at the end. Massively disappointing, and that's top four gone now. We need to stabilise, and put everything into the cup.

I don't think Osman was poor. Moyes was the issue today, and his failure to react to the Norwich change. Naismith is not good enough, and is being made to play out of position, when we have a fair more obvious choice sitting on the bench.

I expect everyone of us saw it coming from a mile off as well.

I am blinkered at the present time in thinking we are actually better than we are.

Thanks for the reality check Jamie, but fuck you, Everton, for spoiling my weekend AGAIN.

How the fuck does Naismith get 90 minutes!! Send him back to the cabbage league he came from where you can score goals with your fuckin' eyes closed!

Please don't renew your contract, Davey, we've had a gut-full, non-Everton supporters think you're a great manager so go and manage one of their sides and see if they still have that opinion after a season (if you last that long!)

You couldn't run a bath!

What has Duffy got to do to get a game. If he is not good enough why is he still at the club.

Today's game was there to be won against very poor opposition.

Moyes goes on about having a small squad, but is it because he does not give younger players a chance. In reality only Rooney and Rodwell have come through during his tenure.

We sat back on a 1-0 lead AGAIN, and the inevitable happened. We won the ball about 5 times in midfield, when we could have countered, and played it fucking backwards.

This side is now going through the motions, and half the first team are probably thinking about a move in the summer.

Moyes, take your negative, see where we are after 40 points football, and fuck off back to Preston. That is about your level you miserable twat.

Oh! and "Let's play Naismith" is not the answer to any question you could possibly pose.

How often did you see Jelavic in his first season that far out of his own realms? He is renowned as being one of the most clinical one touch finishers.. he was nowhere near occupying any kind of position, which would have assisted that today! The guy is a predator, not a winger jockeying for position with Naismith out wide. Like all Moyes' strikers, he wants them coming deep, collecting balls, which leaves absolutely no one up front and closes space down as the defence have a breather not having to worry about a striker hanging on their back line.

Sure, there was a great deal more wrong today but it's no coincidence that we have not possessed a decent striker in Moyes' reign (Rooney the exception but we knew that anyway)

It's all gone very stale since that bright start in August. The "what might have beens" are just annoying now.

Just waiting for players to come out and say the form is not good enough – we know that... don't talk about it, do something about it!!

ps: The defence is woeful at the moment, we can't get a clean sheet for love nor money. I wanted the striker position sorted first and foremost but now I think we may need to sort our defence out first.

We are beyond shit and it's the manager's lack of motivational skills and terrible man-management skills that are now taking a grip. Today wasn't a shock at all — I expected it, even at one-nil up. We are in worse form than QPR at present, and that says something.

There's a part of me wants Oldham to win on Tuesday as a run in the cup will see all is forgiven and Moyes will stay on. I hope and pray that Moyes does the decent thing and fucks off soon. This crap is nothing to do with money. That 11 today should wipe the floor with Norwich, money to spend or not. Like us fans, the players have now been demoralized and neutralised to such an extent by the manager, they can no longer perform his inept and woeful instructions.

Please please go away, Moyes, and leave this club before we all die of boredom. The gruesome and painful tactics you so carefully adhere to don't work and never have. Your luck has ran out and you've been exposed for the boring clueless dinosaur that you are... You make Howard Wilkinson look like Johan Cruyff!

Negative tactics make negative results. If Moyes intends to stay he should sign now and experiment with some of the youngsters between now and the end of the season. If we carry on with the attitude we have displayed this year we will be relegation candidates next season, if the manager can't see that we are in trouble. As for Moyes complaining about the 20 seconds overtime it's irrelevant as a draw was a bad result from today's game.

No doubt we'll win one of those games against the old top 4, when it will have absolutely no impact on our chances of playing in Europe.

Fuckin joke, let's hope Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd or Man City are all still interested in your shitbag yawn-ball.

No chance, the man who will not sign a new contract has a free pass, and the best job in modern football.

The whole set up stinks.

As piss poor as the attempted defending was that is the 2nd game in a row a team has scored AFTER the game should have finished. Oldham 4 minutes of injury time they score in the 95th and today 3 minutes of time added on and they score in the 4th minute. Why does there have to be a break in play before the referee blows the whistle you just can't keep playing until one team kicks the ball when time is up its up!

We will be lucky to finish above the scumbags from across the park and god knows, they're shite.

I have been saying for years that Osman is weak and yet he starts and gets 90 minutes every game. He has ball skills which many have but has little else. You add to this the likes of Naismith and Pienaar who spends more time on the deck because he is one-paced with it and you see the problem.

Two successive games against mediocre opposition have seen them capitulate at the end. This is poor management. No more excuses for Moyes please.

This team just looks so tired, shorn of ideas, shorn of pace, and mostly shorn of confidence. It's criminal how many late goals have we lost this season. I've lost count... I really have.

And to think there's people who still come on and defend Moyes. And I swear if I hear that fucking ridiculous statement from another media gobshite, "He's punched above his weight" — I'll scream, I really will.

Please go at the end of the season, Moyes, and let's get a young vibrant manager with new attacking positive ideas instead of having to rely on Jelavic, Anichebe, Osman, Neville, Fellaini, Distin, Jagielka, Coleman Pienaar et al — it needs an almighty clear out and a man who's not afraid to drop players when they're underachieving.

Fuck me, he has the gall to go public about Mirallas. Yet the above mentioned (Jelavic apart) get off Scot free. I mean, Naismith... c'mon, please. "Yes, but he was only a free," people say. I don't give a flying one — this joker is not good enough to play at that level! Only a couple of months ago, Moyes was waxing lyrical about him, calling him a great player and a great pro. Remember, boys, this is our manager coming out with cretinous statements like that. If he honestly thinks that then by god were deep in the brown stuff.

Please don't think that the Oldham game is a foregone conclusion, because we'll probably have to score 3 or 4 to win and we haven't got that in our make-up at the moment. Deep down, I couldn't care if we beat them because, if we were to win and then beat Wigan (big ask) — you know if we got one of the Mancs or Chelsea, it'd only end in heartbreak. And let's face it, we wouldn't get Blackburn or Millwall. We're not Liverpool.

Wembley hasn't got that many good memories for us really, has it? — and I'm 53. In fact, it's a bit of a graveyard for us. The only saving grace for me is that the Shite aren't left in — that's one pleasing thing. It wouldn't hurt as much getting beat by Man Utd, Man City or Chelsea oh and we've still got to go over there and am I looking forward to that.... Am I fuck!

I hate Everton at times, I really do. By the way I'm going out tonight and there'll be a few reds in the company. Can't wait to see them. Why does it hurt so much?

David Moyes, I believe showed his intentions for the end of the season plus his feelings of getting no support from the board in this game. The team moved the ball around with no penetration and with Baines and Pienaar closely marked, once again; no Plan B.

His substitution, replacing a centre-forward with a midfielder when Naismith was never in the game from the start, to me, was just favouritism. The manager no longer seems to be able to inspire the team and I imagine his comments after the game saying they deserved more. Mr Moyes, you don't deserve more — you have to earn it... and that means changing and dropping players who are bad.

One other thing that annoys me is you telling a player you expect more from him, and then leaving him on the bench. Goodbye to the top 4 and the top 6 — you are dragging this team into the top 10.

Yep that is it I just don't why every game the referee always waits for a break in play or the ball to be kicked out of touch it is football not rugby union, you can bet your life that if Howard would have saved that shot and we would have broke he would have blown sharpish.

Fear governs this man he hasn't the bottle to win big games and lacks the courage to say definitively he's had enough and will be leaving. The last point is indicative of the bubble of adulation the man lives in with Kenwright, lickspittle media and fearful fans telling him how great he is and how the club would fold without his genius - about time it was pricked.

Someone who keeps doing the same things and expects a different result

I class myself a world class IDIOT for supporting this team for 40 years!

Anyone else feel the same?

Genuine question.

He needed replacing by Miralles to kill the game off but it didn't happen. It would have just been too attack-minded for Moyes in my view.

I'm no Moyes basher and I'm trying to be kind to Naismith but in a game and week of such make or break importance that's the change that was needed.

The longer Norwich weren't killed off the more they would see the chance to save the game.

Their goals were poor but the point as usual is that we didn't really go for the jugular when we had the chance and it's now 13 draws from 27 games and it's adios Champions' League and a few other things I reckon.

A part of me wants us to now lose to Oldham on Tuesday, I have never felt like this before. How long can the two lovers, Moyes and Kenwright, string us on like this??? Moyes should go now or sign the fucking contract.

As for Bill, he needs to grow a pair and demand one or the other!! We're not going to go down and were not going to get into Europe and certainly not win the FA Cup either, so we can forget that fucking fairy tale; so, by making the call now we have a start on next season earlier!!

How the fuck could players want to come to us in January with such uncertainty? And also, the ones we do have, why should they now give a monkey's as to what happens? OUR MANAGER APPEARS NOT TO!!!

The bad news is I've got my tickets for Tuesday.

We actually played ok, in my opinion...but Moyes refusal to go for the kill has cost us once again.

Isn't it obvious...painfully obvious, that when youre 1-0 up you cant just hang on and invite pressure. Yet week after week it happens. The man refuses to learn his lessons.

And did I mention how fucking crap Naismith is.

Moyes's contract will expire so there is no pay off needed; Baines will probably go and Fellaini definitely will so that will generate £40-50 million and there's the increase in money Everton will get next season.

What on earth hash happened to our shooting? And corners? Do they work on them in training at all? Because clearly they showed no quality from either of them.

I'll simply repeat (maybe for the 700th time) if you can't keep the fucking ball and you keep giving the fucking thing away, chances are you'll lose.

For weeks now, we have treated the ball like a crack whore treats her minny-moo - 'You want this? Here you go!"

Still not to worry, cup replay on Tuesday and I can't see Oldham's 6 foot 6 inch Matt Smith causing us many problems.

(tuts and rolls eyes so far back, can see own brain).

The game today should have been ours for the taking but 4 games against Norwich no wins. Oldham and Reading will be licking their lips playing against our powderpuff defence.The bench today was a joke, a striker-free zone but four or five defensive players

However, got to move on, get the win on Tuesday, another one next Saturday and keep going. We should have strengthened in January, our woeful Board saw to it that we didn't do enough, but it's too late to look back now.

I think 4th is a step too far now, but 5th or 6th and the FA Cup would still be enough for me!

Personally, I think the uncertainty over Moyes' future is a major problem. It's what happened at Spurs last season with the England job and Redknapp. Nothing decisive and the wheels fell off Spurs' season.

Nothing personal against the lad, he does not pick himself, but at 68 years of age I simply will not tolerate ANY manager putting such dreadfully limited footballers in an Everton shirt and expect me to support it. It is an insult. The lad is by no means the only liability but his inclusion in the side simply reinforces and reflects the dreadful negativity and sterile approach that sadly undermines any good things Moyes may have achieved over the years.

It is clear for all to see that this is a team in serious decline and a club bearing all the hallmarks of one in truly deep crisis as the problems so often aired on the site are beginning to bite. It all seems to be "walking on empty" at the moment.

What on earth is the point of anyone talking about this ludicrous Europa Cup qualification? This team as it stands at present will do remarkably well to finish in the top half of the table — in fact, can anyone actually see this team and its current brittle lack of application actually beating anybody before the end of the season?

As Alan (#686) says, these guys cannot even strike a ball at goal with any degree of venom or accuracy. If Oldham have ANY sense at all, they will simply physically get into Everton in the middle of the pitch and then we can watch the implosion, capitulation and cluelessness with anger, frustration and not a little sadness.

As for DM, if he goes, who replaces him???

At the moment, we all hate his guts but it will come right on Tuesday night when we go on to meet Wigan after we put 3 past Oldham... [Even for Evertonians, hope springs eternal.]

Moyes picks the bench and he didn't put Vellios on it yet we have Duffy, Heitinga and Neville. We don't need all three of them.

I agree that we have no depth in the squad but he never gives anyone a chance to prove themselves. Osman, Pienaar and Naismith have been out of form since Xmas or longer but the first two never get dropped...ever.

He's too loyal and blinded... the whole club is stale and we need a change.

I was one of the many who saw us sitting deeper, saw the subs, and knew that we weren't going to hold out. And if one team was going to get a winner, it never looked like being us.

Season looks like it's going to peter out, slowly and painfully. Moyes will have signed on again for another 5 years by the season end.

The most frustrating thing at present is that we know we can do better with these players looking back earlier in the season, but a spark is needed to re-ignite things. Last season the 4 January signings did that and this year just one signing like Fer or Vadis may well have done the same. You can say that we were unlucky with Fer maybe, but the lack of a realistic Plan B says a lot about the way Everton FC is run.

If we manage to get to a semi-final, I probably won't go, the first I will have missed since the 70s. Why spend a fortune in hotel, travel, match tickets etc to watch a team given the tactics to lay down and roll over?

Fuck off, Moyes — you have run this club into the ground.

Let's get you out and some fresh ideas in. Your tactics are dragging our great club down.

Who do you think you are? Telling us that you may or may not sign a contract in the summer, you fucking idiot.

BK you should tell his love child "Sign now or piss off!" ... on second thoughts, just piss off! Take Neville, Naismith, Howard, Heitinga, Osman & Anichebe with you!!!

The thing is, league placings are decided on money. The top 4 will be the 4 teams who've spent the most. Liverpool will just miss out because they haven't quite spent enough. Look at Villa's decline since they stopped spending money. We can kid ourselves that we could possibly break in to the top 4 some other way but it's bullshit.

I've said it for years, I would just like a manager who can keep us entertained instead of the negative shit moyes has served up for 11 years. I want a manager who'll treat the cups as our most important games because we'll always be around 7th to 14th in the league and it's boring. It's time to go Moyes but he's out stayed his welcome for the past 7 years now.

Just look at his backroom staff, all defenders and not an attacking brain cell between them. It's been time for change for the past couple of seasons as we are stagnant, bereft of ideas and predictable.

I'm sick of square pegs in round holes, sick of him ruining strikers for the sake of defending one goal leads, sick of Osman, Naismith, Heitinga, sick of getting shafted by lower teams, sick of getting hammered and rolling over to die in derby matches, sick of BK and his smug fucking chops, sick of the board as a whole and sick of being sick of all the above.

I'm sick of it!

It's only Oviedo who has looked any good and not had much of a chance, Vellios will only ever be a sub at best. Neville and Heitinga can play in a number of positions, while Duffy is not better than Jags or Ditin yet as proved by the way he letSmith get away from him at Oldham last week.

Barkley would be good to see and I can't really answer why he's not been playing more.

Agree today not good enough, but only 72 hours till next match and they have to move on quickly as losing on Tuesday would be a disaster!

The lack of killer instinct, the unwillingness to really go for it, all the points mentioned by countless people earlier, will go against him.

I think he is seeing what is out there, looking to see does he have chance of getting one of these posts and if not, he'll sign back on with us.

And guess what, he will still be our manager this time next year!!!

Moyes is a follower — not a leader... followers never win...

His time is up as it's obvious he doesn't enjoy it and that filters down through the whole club... Sometimes change is good if only to inject new ideas.

Swansea away when we won 3 - 1 was how we should be playing... we could have scored ten or conceded ten but we had a go. Sick of this negative shit.

-Dropping Howard and bringing in another keeper who will be able to provide competition
-Hibbert reduced to a squad player
-Distin will have to be released
-Baines replaced
-Fellani replaced
-Osman reduced to a squad player
-Gibson will be dependent on fitness otherwise he will be another squad player.
-Pienaar to be replaced, simply not good enough since he's returned.
-Naismith shown the door and replaced
-Anichebe is injured more than he plays. Needs replacing.

We'll need to build around the like of Jelavic, Mirallas, Coleman, Oviedo, Duffy.

It's going to take a major overhaul to stabalise Everton again, with some bumpy rides along the way.
What we'll need are hard grafters and workman like players like the Gravesens/Carsleys/Parkinsons. With the funds raised from the likes of Felli,Baines, and Pienaar and one or two others, we'll need atleast 6/7 first teamers from that.
I think we can forget about flare and luxury players for the next few years, it'll be more like dogs of war players we'll need. Another rebuilding process for the next 3-5 years

We have a little purple patch each season that spares Moyes and the board. Last season it was a run after Xmas and a semi-final appearance that did it. This season was the flying start that has now totally derailed. It's embarrassment of the highest order what's gone on this year.

I think Southampton away was the real turning point where we got battered but the football stunk to high heaven. Whatever you think of Moyes, he doesn't give a rat's arse about entertainment. I can't remember the last time I left a game thinking we were a footballing side... It's crap!

Where's the Blue Union, FFS?!?!?

Bollocks.

I really, really hope the guy goes. He did well for 5 years and then went stale. He's now well past his use-by date.....our club does not deserve to be put through the next 3 months of hell that will no doubt follow while he sees out the remaining time on his contract, sulking and making the same shitty decisions which keep costing us points against financially worse off clubs.

Jelavic like every single striker Moyes has ever signed has gone off the boil now that he's got used to "the Everton way", Our most natural goal poacher and 1 shot finisher since Lineker is isolated up top, running channels and playing back to goal trying to accept 50 yard "passes" against a 6'3" centre half.

(1) Naismith should never ever play for Everton again.

(2) Moyes should have taken Naismith off.

(3) We must sell Fellaini in the summer.

(4) Pienaar got hammered on the forum; I thought he was decent today.

(5) Distin is key to our next one or two years... or three or more?

(6) Seamus will become a top drawer right back.

(7) Ovideo needs more game time.

(8) Howard has done much better of late.

(9) Gibson will be our skipper one day.

(10) We lack bottle.

(11) Osman is not paperweight but we need to seek a replacement.

(12) Jelly will come good, lovely chest and touch in the first half — he still has it.

(13) Big Dunc? Sheeds needs to be given a bigger role.

(14) Moyes has to go; in fact he will resign, but go, please.

(15) Can we swap Celtic — Lennon for Moyes please?

(16) Lennon/Zola/Martinez; I would kill for one of them to fill DM's boots.

This lower league attitude is what David Moyes instills in his team, they worry about teams that are at Everton's level or below but give it 100% against teams who are superior either financially or class wise. If I had have travelled to Norwich today I sure as hell would have felt cheated.

I think that DM must have been thinking of leaving at the start of the season, I can't remember an Everton side of his, being so far off the pace and physically incapable of making a lung-bursting run. It's as if he's only looking after the players on Match-days, I know that's not true, but that's what it looks like when the players get out there on the pitch.

There is not one player barking out instructions or cajoling others to give it a bit more effort. Jags used to do it but he seems to have lost the will to do so and PN is not good enough to be in the team.

One of the Boardroom members should pay a visit to Finch Farm and find out exactly what is happening there, because it doesn't look like the basics are being addressed at the moment.

I agree totally. He has a very high opinion of himself.

In my opinion, he is a complete phony. Taking top wages out of a skint club whilst continually mentioning the lack of funds "knife to a gunfight" shite.

Blue Bill: "David, here is your new improved contract. There is no money for new players I am afraid. You can only spend what you raise on sales. However, we have increased your annual salary."

David: "Where do I sign, Mr Chairman?"

In a thread yesterday, someone mentioned that Moyes uses fewer substitutions than any other Premier League manager. He cannot see the obvious. He makes the same mistakes. e.g. the Heitinga Sitcom. Can anybody tell me why he started with Naismith today?

I think if Moyes left now, it would give the team a massive lift, and we may actually start winning a few games

Champions League with SPL players? We are having a laugh. Moyes's tactics are shocking and so predictable, he goes into every game trying not to lose and not trying to win — there is a big difference.

No clue, No Board to back, No players, No signings, No desire, No hope... fed up of saying NO!

I still hope that we can beat Oldham, Wigan and get the easier side of the draw to get to Wembley. Then you never know in a one off game, perhaps we can manage a win and take the cup back to Merseyside. Here's hoping.

Fellaini will probably go - we cant help that. Even if he fetches £20million we can still get two or three players in to stengthen the squad.

We have a decent squad that just needs a few additions.

Everton's main problem right now is that the manager's attitude and his refusal to try promising young players. Oviedo, Barkley, Kennedy, McAleny, Vellios and Junior all deserve to be at least around the first team, with some getting more minutes than others. Yet it doesnt seem to matter how well they play for the 21's, they don't get picked.

Phil Sammon, have you come over to our side?

The question needs to be asked: would people accept Moyes leaving (resigning or being sacked regardless of financial/contractual ramifications) on Monday?

He may have pissed on his chips now anyway, he has possibly reached the point of no return.

Does he really think he is the only option out there for one of the biggest clubs in world football?

If we had a Board with any sort of clue, his replacement should be in place already.

If Laudrup took over, I would expect a few talented, unheard-of players being signed who could mix it up and really play as well, with some of the youngsters making an appearance. I would expect safety and then progression and I mean real progression with a chance of winning something, at least there would be hope.

The same applies to Martinez and probably a lot more but those fucking idiots in the media have successfully brainwashed many a supporter into believing we couldn't do any better. At last, though, the penny seems to've dropped (way too late in my opinion) for a large proportion on this site but how do the paying public in the stands feel? I won't hold my breath but fingers crossed that they have woken up.

Fear pervades the team and the prevaricating Moyes can do nothing about it, instead he feeds it.Frankly I'm glad we've got the 40 points on board because I wouldn't be confident of beating anyone.

Today, I thought the initial team selection was pretty spot-on other than the stupid decision to start with Naismith over Mirallas. Even though we looked comfortably in control early in the second half, I couldn't understand his reluctance to go more positive and kill the game by bringing on Mirallas for Naismith given that this was a must-win game. When he did make the change (way too late), I couldn't believe it when he took off Jelavic instead of Naismith.

I truly don't know what to believe now given my until now passionate support of Moyes. I am thinking that now perhaps it may be best if he were to go and we perhaps sell Fellaini and Baines and pocket between £30 to £40 million for them as long as all funds are available to the new manager. If we were to go down this road it would be important that the right person were appointed in his place... althoug I'm not too sure who that person should be.

My initial thoughts are Martinez and, while it could be argued he is always fighting against relegation, we should remember Wigan are in relation to all and most teams who have featured in the PL are perhaps the smallest team in lots of ways and really he has performed a magnificent job in keeping them there.

Saying this, though Moyes has his faults, we should realise that it's also down to the players on the pitch who should take some of the blame. For the majority of the game today, I thought we were well in control, though at 1 - 0 there's always a doubt – especially when it's us. While I appreciate Moyes could have made changes earlier, both in personnel and of a more positive nature, the players on the field should have been able to have seen the game out and not totally fallen apart as they did. That was down to them as much as it was to Moyes.

Personally, I now don't know what to think. I've personally had many ups and downs following my beloved Blues but for some reason today I've never felt so devastated after a loss. Just can't get my head round this and just don't know what to think for the best.

Eleven empty years is enough; Laudrup in a final in his first season, McLeish even won a trophy. Our great team is going nowhere thanks to a board of directors who don't give a fuck, Kenwright and all the Boys Pen shite — if he is that big a blue, sell up, walk away before I have to.

And Moyes, it's time to go and it won't be to a top four team, you are just not good enough. Celtic is about the best you will get. As for our new man Laudrup, will get a top job so that leaves Martinez and he will do me ....

Kenwright will circle the wagons getting the echo on side and a close up of Moyes kipper on the Jumbotron with defiant seal clapping will convince him his godlike status is intact.

He'll leave in the summer to tumultuous back slapping - then we can get on.

As you say Mcleish won a trophy, where are Birmingham now? Would you rather Moyes to have won a trophy and us be relegated? Other than very rare occasions what other teams/managers have won trophies other than the top 4/5 teams and where are they now?

Even though I may now be having doubts about DM's abilities to carry on I can never ever underestimate or devalue what he has achieved at Everton. Even though he has never won a trophy I would rate him as one of the best managers we have ever had on the whole. It may turn out that he will leave and that it is the right time to do so but I think that if he does leave it should be on an amicable basis and he should receive the recognition for a job well done.

However, I have a 3 cd box set of DM inspirational speeches/team talks for sale if anyone's interested ?

Also, DM duvet cover +two pillow cases ?

3 cds worth eh? ... lot of ads on them I'm guessing.

I hope he goes; my mind was made up long ago, but overall it won't change things... the main fault with this club is Blue Bill and, until he goes and major investment is pumped in, we haven't a hope. This supporter will no longer travel over from Ireland to have my money wasted by them clowns that run our club. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum — that's not what we are getting.

CD2 = "Rooney is a young player, he thinks he's God's gift, but we'll prove him wrong, come on lads we can get CL..." — Circa June 2004

CD3 = "We haven't a hope in hell, we'll never break this glass ceiling, keep it tight and get to 40 points, that's good enough for this club, I'm just waiting for a bigger club and I'm off!" — Anytime in the last nine years.

And then to be served up that dross. Naismith had one of the worst displays I ever seen as an Everton player, could have been clear through on countless time but stopped and played it back, appalling performance. Why could Moyes not see that the team he picked was not working. The man is bereft of any tactical sense.It's time for a change and an apology to all those poor sods who travelled.

I don't share your opinion of Moyes's record. He has simply consolidated a top 8 place by dour largely negative tactics. He has failed to win a league game at Anfield, Old Trafford, The Emirates or Stamford Bridge. That's nearly 50 games. He has failed through poor tactics in virtually every big game: Chelsea FA Cup Final, Liverpool FA Cup semi-final, Chelsea League Cup semi-final, Villarreal at home, Sporting Lisbon, Fiorentina away, Dinamo Bucharest. Lost cup games to Oldham, Shrewsbury, Leeds, Brentford...

Even finished 4th with a negative goal difference.

Looking at our remaining fixtures I can see no away wins and possibly two or three home league wins.

As for Moyes's place in history, I don't rate it highly. Won nothing. Not many derby wins, unattractive football, ruining many forwards, playing many out of position, trying to defend leads instead of going for more goals, woeful like-for-like substitutions, occasional poor body language , picking a reserve team at Anfield was unforgiveable, and finally keeping everyone swinging over his contract.

The phrase that sums Moyes up is: overrated and overpaid. I want him out of our club NOW.

I won't be dealing in any of the totally OTT criticism that he gets on here but needless to say a bad day at the office for Moyes and looking more and more like things have gone horribly stale. The cup's all that's left for this season.

"It's too late, Davey Boy, there is no contract. We will pay you till the end of your current contract. When it expires, pack your bags and fuck off."

Then I woke up.

The players themselves need a good kicking.

The England international who repeatedly twats the ball 70 yards, the Belgian international who inexplicably switches-off at the corner, the Croat international with a horrendous case of the yips. The former captain of South Africa who seemingly can't take a corner, the panic-stricken US international keeper who's about as reliable & trustworthy as a smackhead and the "alleged," Scottish international who's shit-scared to take a man on.

I am not completely absolving Moyes by any means, but we're not exactly sixth from bottom.

All that was cowardly was the continual taking off a forward tactics and defend a lead. The rotten tactics of a dreadful manager.

Jelavic currently cannot hit a pig in an entry and was blowing out of his arse.

Patrick,

Irrespective of the manager's contract, the players have a responsibility to "pull their tripe out," for us.

Whether Moyes stays or goes, I hope the players you're talking about, fuck off.

Our primary issue is that we have a mental block largely caused by the guy in charge and his tactics and attitude. You don't need money to fix that.

One thing you can't fault about Moyes is that he's a man of principles. I hope he realises that he has taken the club as far as he can and that him staying a few more months is not going to achieve anything positive. I hope he resigns soon.

If Jelavic was knackered then another forward should have come on. Where was Vellios?

Or is Mirallas not a striker?

Tired players!!! Do fuck all at school and end up at Everton earning big bucks, eg Osman. Fucking shite again, no balls, no idea and a cunt of a manager and a bigger cunt of a chairman. We are heading down with these cunts at the helm.

This is nothing but sheer denial. Oh, and it's nothing to do with the gaffer its the fellas on the pitch. You are deluded. Moyes is in charge of team selection, tactics, positioning, setting the team up, responding to the game as it unfolds, carefully diagnosing problems and coming up with solutions if need be as the game progresses, having a 2nd or 3rd plan if the one on the pitch is not working, getting the half-time talk spot on, making timely and constructive substitutions, keeping morale up in positive post-match and pre-match interviews that give us all an extra spring in our step as he is the face of the club.

There has been very little said about Moyes on this thread that is ridiculous. You have said the most ridiculous things on this thread by a country mile. Sadly, your frame of mind and limp analysis are held by people inside the club who have some clout. How dare you call others on here cowards.

And here's a question for you, but you usually do not answer direct questions do you (you coward?): justify your claim that criticisms and judgements about Moyes on here are 'cowardly', go on back that up, man up, do it. Because my little friend, there is nothing more cowardly than avoidance, denial, and mawkish lemming loyalty.

Ian

I've just watched MotD seeing Davey whinging about a 4th minute to the ref — we should not have been in that position for it to make a difference! Anything to deflect your incompetence!

I would so love you to go to Man Utd, at least it would stop our league becoming the SPL! Thinking about the points we have given to shit teams this season makes me dizzy! But a least we are balancing out our best start in years with a shite finish!

Fuck knows what will happen on Tuesday? Another game to watch through your fingers!!

Fast-forward to Match of the Day and their commentators says that Fellaini and the defender are holding each other 50/50?!? WTF???

If that had been Suarez being held with two arms around his chest, Alan Fucking Hanson would have had it replayed about 6 times saying it was disgraceful.

It's us v them, so, the sooner we accept that and beat teams the hard way, the better as we are not going to get any help from referees.

By the way, this is about the 5th time that twat Lee Mason has given us nothing in a game and yet he still gets us next time... Ferguson would have had him banned from their games by now. One law for the rich, etc...

Phil Neville?

What Moyes needs more than anything right now are folks around him to sit down and talk constructively with him about what is going pear-shaped on the pitch — that is his ultimate responsibility, not cowards in the dressing room and boardroom who trot out the same old same old whatever, who do not face up to what is actually going on. You sound like the shit that pours out of gobshite Savage's mouth each time an Evertonian rings in to say something about Moyes that is not fawning, glowing, and Neville-like.

Moyes chose to ignore the evidence of his own eyes and what thousands of others could see. The entire world of Evertonians screamed hoped and prayed, for him to do something to alter the course of a game. It was clear to all that we were heading for catastrophe yet this so-called messiah could read the signs.

The first Norwich goal shocked him into making a substitution but by then the game was in its closing minutes and the tide was well and truly flowing against us. The coward had set his mind on ‘seeing it out’ and he had no Plan B. Basically it was another case of Moyes receiving the latest in a huge catalogue of lessons in tactics — this time from Chris Hughton.

If I had my way, Moyes would be gone today accompanied by that gormless looking sod with the headphones.

I'm glad I didn't stay up and watch it at 1-00am.

Ian and Paul Re another thread yeasterday...we have to get 2 out of 2 right, yesterday we Did manage to pinch one but as for the KIT...nah.

I'm of out now for some retail therapy I shall wear the Blue shirt, but god it's a struggle.

Also, I think that the reaction of Moyes after the game was graceless and pedantic. It was, though, out of character. I have a feeling that Moyes could tell a tale about Kenwright that would reveal more than even the most cynical could imagine. To me, he looks like a man at the end of his tether. He is, though, paid well enough to get over it and get on with it.

Absolutely frustrated, like the rest of you!

As for today, different angle but I keep seeing his face and have to ask.... WHAT DOES STEVE ROUND DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get Steve Clarke in, he knows his eggs. Doesn't talk shite either.

On what they have shown on Football First, Naismith wasn't all bad and neither was our play. However, by pairing Naismith with Coleman we definitely reduced our attacking threat wide right and on the counter. Naismith has neither the pace nor the inclination to play as a winger. Any attempts to get to the by-line were left to Coleman and Naismith played at least 10 yards in-field for the vast majority of the game. On one occasion Jelavic ended up 10 yards further right than Naismith from a relatively slow and lateral build-up which surely can't be the best use of either player. If he is going to be used at all why not give him a central role, as he definitely ended up falling between two stools today.

IMO, Naismith was blowing as much as Jelavic, and so Mirallas for Jelavic was the neutral option with minimal chance of changing the way the game was going at the time. It did nothing to halt the retreat of most of our players into our own half. Personally, I have yet to see anything that suggests Mirallas is better as the sole striker rather than as a creative support player who will hopefully chip in with a decent number of goals as well. What he did in Greece is largely irrelevant. I would ask him to stick as a wide attacking threat, coming inside at times to allow Coleman to overlap or have a direct strike at goal.

But beware frogs in warm water which is slowly being heated up – it can feel so comfortable until it’s too late and you’ve been boiled to death, you’ve realised the danger too late. I feel like that re Moyes (and that can work the other way too – somebody has been shit but as they improve the fixed mindset does not allow us to see the reality of improvement).

So this frog has over the last few months gone from an 80/20 believer in Moyes to let’s say 40/60. It’s the selections (Johhny! etc), the tactics (sitting back in second half yesterday), the nature and lateness of subs, the bench selections.

Having said that, I don’t much go for “He’s not a man motivator” (directed at any manager). If a player needs motivating, then there’s a major fucking fault with the player. So to keep this balanced (in my view), as well as our 40/60 manager, we have a team who collectively and (many) individually have just not performed. It ain’t just DM's tactics etc.

Part of me thinks therefore that we’re deluding ourselves if we think that simply a new manager is going to work wonders; and part of me thinks that if he can avoid just some of Moyes’s faults, then a few more points gets us well up the table; but then I think, ain't the new guy going to have his own faults? And if not, why ain't he being sought out by Chelski, Arse etc.

And finally, a good second half to last season, a couple of exciting summer signings, an exciting start (in results and style of play) to this season led some (ok, myself included) to be delusional about CL place (at times we even had people saying good enough for 3rd!). Why don’t we just face it and get over it. We (the board and its support, the manager, the quality and depth of squad) are just above average in the EPL. Let’s just accept it and stop whingeing. But, oh, fuck me, how yesterday hurt, even more than some recent displays and results, so I/we do want to whinge.

Finally, finally, given the limitations of the board and their support, and the current squad, I don’t see any manager at all who we could realistically bring in who will make an immediate better impact than DM. And as all DM’s faults are so obvious, a new guy doesn’t need time to work them out, so he’s going to be on a fucking hiding to nothing and I’ll probably be one of the first on his back and complain if he don’t do better than DM.

Having said that, I’ve had enough and just want us to try anything... so bring on a new manager. And therein lies our fault collectively as supporters – we don’t agree on what the problem is and therefore what the solution is (just read this and other threads) – it’s just “Let’s try something, anything different”, which implies that collectively we know fuck all.

Predictable, boring, unimaginative etc etc etc – we can all see it doesn't work for us so why keep on doing it?

1) Bring on Mirallas for Naismith after an hour
2) Leave Baines on ALL set pieces

Hey presto – you've got a centre forward at centre forward. You've got a left midfielder causing them problems (and he did – despite the criticism on here). You've got another talented pacy player joining the attack from the right.

This isn't just hindsight – it was my opinion during the game. The changes were bad at 0-1... but when they equalised the shiteness was just highlighted. There was no way to turn it around.

"Despite the criticism on here"....................

For too long, Moyes has used tactics that don't take advantage when we are winning a game or having better possession. When will he learn tactics that kill off a game when we are ahead? If he can't get that part right after all this time, then he never will. Too many draws this season where a positive change in the game could have won us all three points and a higher league position.

This season has been a rare occasion where a Champions League qualifying place is there for a club outside of the usual suspects and yet do we get any additional players (that it was clear were needed) in the January transfer window?

So what happened, Kenwright ? Did you really hope Jelavic would suddenly start scoring again on a regular basis? For Naismith to become a Premier League quality player? For our players to gain the pace they never had? For our midfield to start dominating games?

Poor tactics and lack of investment when we had the chance to progress to the level that could bring in big money. Maybe the only way for Moyes and Kenwright to go is if one of the weakest Liverpool teams (apart from Suarez for his goals) in my memory, finish above us this season......

This is his business plan for 38 EPL games, his benchmark and job description comes down to Get 40 pts and any final position 10th or better is a bonus.

How many times have you left the game in the last 11yrs and thought... that was worth the money?

Not
Very
Many

I can't invest in this and for that reason, I'm out.

If he had scored 10 goals this season, we would have had the wins instead of these losses and draws we've had and all would be rosy. But unfortunately, this is not the case. Whether you blame Moyes, BK or other players, your striker must score goals and that's what the team lacks.

Eighteen minutes to go and we were hoofing it aimlessly. No attempt to keep the ball, and just recycling it to them as quick as we could. Give a team enough chances and they will take them... and they did.

Threw some shit round the living room once they got the second, and then proceeded to get numbingly plastered. Today I'm off, and I'm already back on the piss. I will not be leaving early on Tuesday to watch the game – my liver can't take it!

Let's draw the line. David Moyes has failed this once great club. He has failed his squad of players and more importantly, he has failed the essence of Everton FC: he has failed his fans – that is unforgivable.

In his defense, I can only say he is a stupid twat.

I pride myself on being able to figure out when there's a problem, and I think Moyes has lost (or never had) at least half the dressing room. Our 2nd half performances in matches alludes to poor half time talk, and Moyes has commented that some of the things they do on the field isn't in his plan (the high defensive line for one).

As much as I think it was a good move for all involved, Tim Cahill (and to an extent Arteta) really was the glue in the shed. I know that Jags and the Neviller would be staunch "Moyes Boys", and I'm sure the likes of Heitinga and Fellaini are cool with him but would be swayable. I was surprised that Mirallas came out and talked Moyes up last week.

The way the team is playing at the moment, as I said, I think Moyes has lost the players.

They may think why should I bother, I think / know he's off in June. Why should I bother this fella is talking rubbish

What's he going to do?? drop me...in our case...for who...Kids, the reserves, yeah right.

If I do get dropped it won't be for long and I have 50K+ to pad the bench with.

127 days and counting...can't come quick enough, what ever the future brings.

Like you said, you were surprised Mirallas talked Moyes up, so just maybe you are wrong. Mirallas has only been here 5 minutes so why would he have fallen out with Moyes?

5 minutes??? Yet more sad and sorry Allakerisms. Who said he has fallen out with Moyes, name more than one? You cannot. I can v imagine a scenario where KM is thinking, "Why am I on the bench and Nayshit is starting?" — can you? I can well imagine sheer talent like Mirallas thinking n ice one Fellli, good shout, but the gaffer is not what you said.

5 minutes, Ian? Give KM some credit and feeling and talent at least.

So are they following Moyes's instructions or not?

If they are following him then he hasn't 'lost the players', he's just a tit.

If they're not following him then he has 'lost' them, and they're a bunch of arseholes who don't understand the game.

Can it be both?

Can't be Osman as he actually scored our only one?

What about the culprit in their first goal? Our 30 million Quid man who is supposed to be such an aerial threat that didn't even attempt a jump against the man he was suposedly marking?

If it had been our Player of the Season from last year he'd have been hung, drawn and quartered on these pages but as it was Fellaini it's remarkably quiet on the blame game this week?

I am am totally fed up with this in fact like David Lynch I am sick of it.

Time for a change.

If you have to start blaming players more regularly or en-masse you have to ask the question who bought them, picked them organised them and motivated them.

Eric, thankfully I didn't get to see the whole game. I only saw the first 60 or so minutes, but I more than expected to find us ending up drawing or losing. In the first 60 minutes fellaini was the best of our players. His passes stuck, he got the ball down and played football, and he put his foot in when it required it.

It's not the team — it is the manager's tactics, or lack of them, that's the problem. Moyes has done this constantly, it's not a one-off. How many times must Moyes say to himself after the game. "If only I had done that instead of this"?

Most managers would love to come to Everton with the team we have, most would accept less money than we pay Moyes but there are some of you on this site who say "Who would we get?" — the queue would be from Goodison Park to Lime Street Station. Take your pick. Please don't say they wouldn't come because we have no money. If that was true, half the Premier Clubs would not have managers.

IMHO this feels like déjà vu all over again. We’ve been here before (well I have) the early part of the season was like watching Everton 3 seasons ago when we dismantled Man U Citteh and Chelsea in a month, not by giant killing, in yer face, 2 banks of 4 football, but pace power and skill that reminded me of 1983 when an ugly duckling was turning into a beautiful swan. But instead of building on the barnstorming finish to the season by strengthening in close season, we didn’t bring in a single player. I was so disappointed that I held a one man protest and didn’t renew my season ticket and I’ve only been back to Goodison a couple of times since,

The failure to add the January is going to cost us dearly, and we are not talking £45 mill for this player or £30 mill for that player, just some sensible additions rather than the PR stunt that we got 4-5 days before the window closed. But it’s not the fact that we are losing or drawing, it is the manner of it-toothless at Old Trafford, battered into submission by Oldham & Norwich, what has happened to the never say die DM approach. This is going to be a depressing year.

Hard to watch the season crumbling, particularly after do much raised expectation, but this is Everton and somehow it seems we have to endure this crap year after year.

Still, he was not being bearhugged when the Norwich player headed in the first, he made not attempt at all.

Feeling quite numb about it all today.

Perhaps those people who say they would rather have low to mid-table finishes and cup triumph might get their wish this year?

My plus notes are

-Coleman looks better and better to me. So good to have balance.
- Gibson was pretty solid and didn't get injured.
-distin still looks like he has at least another season at the top to give
- We do have some good players in there...capable maybe of going all the way in the cup.

Our players looked very tired as the second half progressed, and they seemed to sense that we can't hang on to one-nils now, especially when we haven't put away or created enough chances, against a very very poor team. Our shooting and crossing and corners were of Sunday League quality.

We played pretty well first half, but not urgent enough. Jelly and Naismith made little or no contribution. Time for players to stand up, and put some decisive performances in. It's not fatal yet, but some motivational cardio needed PDQ. Come on You Blues!

Maybe we need to give Mirallas a run playing up front.

Can someone tell me what Moyes sees in him. If this is what awaits us next season I will seriously consider not re-newing.

Away from Naismith, some of the football served up by Moyes has been dreadful and painful to watch. We are so predictable and when we do add a bit of flair to the squad (Miralles) he's not playing.

Moyes is well paid, the salary budget he has is reportedly bigger than most, so not excuses for me.

Its time for change.

It was the "mawkish obituaries, " on Moyes that I described as 'cowardly,' NOT as you state, any criticism of him. This is why I (deliberately) added the line:"I am not completely absolving Moyes by any means."

Mysteriously, you elected to avoid showing any recognition of that line, and instead, described me as "fawning," which (quite obviously) the line wasn't.

The 'cowardice,' refers to the sheer volume of posts that in my eyes, are throwing in the towel. Just my opinion, (and obviously one warranting six paragraphs of personalised attacks...)

Also, Liverpool are NOT playing today as you claim. Except in your own head.

Then you describe a recitation of the players not playing to their potential as "limp analysis." Then do me the courtesy of answering a direct question yourself:

Namely, what particular beef do you have with me for critiquing Jag's repeated hoofs, Fellaini switching-off at the corner, Naismith's fear of beating a man, Pienaar's terrible corner kicks, etc...

I simply stated that these were all bad things. If you could challenge the actual words I used, rather than invent fiction, imaginary football matches, and then attribute it to me, I might add some credulity to your (lengthy) monologues, next to my amusement of them.

Plenty of other post match grumbles so this might get lost in the mist....I always try to be a 'supporter' in the truest sense, 46 years a bluenose more than a handful of games every year.

Yesterday was desperately disappointing. We have one of the best teams I have seen at the club, no depth, shame we couldn't add over the window, but still a fantastic team.

Like nearly everyone at the game I just couldn't see why mirallas was not playing wide right, if not at the start then at a bare minimum for the second half.

If ever there was a side so low on confidence and ready for the taking it was Norwich. We should have just gone at them and with our best team would have put three or four past them..no problem, we might still have conceded the two late on but it wouldn't have mattered.

Football is never perfect, fans are a fickle bunch, more on that in my next post...but this team really is close to being very,very good. That is obviously not good enough for many, great to have high expectations but they won't always be realised.

Until DM goes, and he will go soon, it would benefit everyone to get over things and back the team, including on pages like this...constructive criticism with an alternative option is fine and good and should be commended....abuse helps no one and shows a lack of understanding and has negative impact .

I'll be at the replay and if we get past them, Wigan too....back the lads and the gaffer...whoever they are.

Having said all that I would love to ask DM what his logic was for starting with Naismith yesterday and not changing things earlier.

That has got a small piece of frustration of my chest...thanks....see you all next Tuesday?

Moyes publicly stated what a good player Mirallas is, but we have seen time and time again that Moyes has made reasonable decisions which seem unreasonable at the time but we find out that we were ignorant to what was going on behind the scenes.

For all we know Mirallas might have had a slight knock and Moyes didn’t want to risk playing him until the FA Cup game on Tuesday, maybe Moyes wanted to have a player on the bench who had the ability to change a game if we were getting beat, we just don’t know. But I believe Moyes rates Mirallas more highly than Naismith but had his reasons for starting Naismith.

It's a common theme on TW to focus on single decisions, usually a player not playing or playing in the wrong position or someone on the bench who would have 'turned the game'. Hibbert has been the subject of many of these threads, and from both ends... he should have played.... Moyes should've played XXX instead etc etc.

Often it ends up snowballing and in many minds it becomes the pivotal reason we've played badly or didn't win. It just gets completely exaggerated. It becomes the difference between success and failure when it's rarely anything of the sort. Our limitations are surely due to much wider matters.

Except we are not staying put, are we? 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th tomorrow, thank you for that little reminder, bet you were pissing your pants with joy when you saw that rare slip-up on my part.

"But I believe Moyes rates Mirallas more highly than Naismith but had his reasons for starting Naismith."

It simple Ian, DM believes that it's better to have Naismith on the pitch because "He's a grafter", "He has a good engine", all the the usual British characteristics. Although most importantly he thinks if we're 1 - 1 he's better to have on than Mirallas ("So I'll box clever and put Naismith on"). While most other managers would think, "Get Mirallas and Jelavic on and pin them back, We might score a few and put it beyond doubt" and if not we'll change the plan later.

Moyes cannot do this there isn't an iota of him that can go for the win from the first whistle. It's always defend and wait for your chances!

People are desperate to give the youngster a go but, let's face it, the players given a go haven't done much. Anichebe and Rodwell are the best of a bad bunch to come through and they've hardly set the world alight so what makes you think these other squad players are going to do the business?

If they are good enough, Moyes will play them, even if they are only 16, like he did with Rooney and Vaughan.

Ian I should have stated explicitly that I believe that DM even if he had a talented squad with flair throughout, would still put out defensive minded formations with the hop the an RVP (or similar could edge the game for us). It simply doesn't matter what type of squad is at his disposal; he's genetically conservative/defensive.

We can talk about individual examples of player types all night long, but he'll play the same way.

Apologies for the typo above "with the hop the an RVP", should be: "with the hope that an RVP".

I'm hungover from last night after trying to forget the match.

To be fair, I agree that having a player like Kevin on the bench is a good tactic. What isn't a good tactic is having Naismith anywhere near the squad. When we got Straq 18 months ago someone said they'd heard rumour the players thought he was a joke. I'd love to know what they think of Moyes newest little favourite.

It's people like him and fucking Osman and Hibbert that will define Moyes' 11 years in charge. Hard workers that just aren't good enough.

What I also know is there have been many occasions when fans have had a go at Moyes for not playing a certain player only to find out later that the player was injured.

Now you are plucking more negativity out of thin air bringing "rumours" into the discussion, what ever the players thought of Straq, no one can deny the positive effect he had on the team and his contribution, and the same goes for Moyes as well they cant deny the his contribution and the way he has taken a team of champioship and unknowns and helped them to become full internationals, I think a lot of the players have a lot to thank him for.

Only the second time in the lad's career he has played centre back, the previous time was in an earlier round against Crawley.

As for your "we just don't know", I find debating semantics to be extremely cheap and tangent streaming, and I've said this before: everything we type on this site is opinion based in some way, so we shouldn't have to waste words saying "in my opinion", "this is a possibility", or "even though I'm not in Moyes circle of trust..."

David Halwood made a great post earlier. The only thing I would add/alter is how he said "the MOB are out in force." Yes we are, and I'm having a Sunday Funday and contemplating getting MOB inked on my chest, BUT, I think our numbers have swelled drastically in the last 24 hours.

Ian, I hope you like your own space, cos your side is gonna be pretty lonely over the next three months.

Anyway, back to THAT yesterday... To repeat the final line on the match report, "same old same old". I was kind on the Blues after the Utd game but the pattern this season of not going 2 - 0 up and not keeping clean sheets is starting to well and truly get on my tits. What the fuck has happened to our defence? I think teams have cottoned on that if they play some inbred groc of a yard dog against us, they'll get a goal. I knew for a fact Grant Holt was going to score yesterday, just like I know that Smith will score against us on Tuesday.

I think both the players and Moyes need to get their shit together. These are by and large the same players who had a superb second half to the season last year and first ten games this year, so they need a rocket up their fucking arses and need to start killing games off.

As for Moyes, I fear he is starting to sulk again (remember two years ago over his contract?). If this is over the backing he is not getting from our shit board, I do understand, but, if it is having a detrimental effect on the team/our performance, then he needs to fucking wind it in, as he still gets paid a fortune.

Again to re-iterate what some say on here, as much as I like the man and by-and-large he's been sound for us, but if he's having doubt and/or can't be arsed, then, irrespective of how cack our board are, then please do go, Moyes.

I would love nothing more than the Blues – and Moyes – to get it sorted, but time is running out now lads, so come on!

Also to point out Paul Ferry's summary on the points are spot on.

COYB – Oldham on Tuesday, let's twat them 5 - 0 (probably won't happen).

I don't get carried away with the knee jerk reactions after a couple of bad results, I look at the season as a whole and then the bigger picture of the whole league and where we were and where we are now. From what I can see so far we have improved and progressed from last season and if we keep Moyes we will improve and progress again as we always have done under Moyes.

He has a team off-field that are not doing the business: let's start getting some ex-players in there on matchday that know what it means to play for Everton.

Sheedy's about, with Stubbs and Dunc, to put the fire back into the players' bellies.

There is so little in all that he posts which goes creatively and constructively beyond the status quo that nearly everyone else on here wants to change for the better, however big, however small that change may be.

Your last sentence summed up Allaker's position perfectly; he is trapped on the beach and the tide is coming in.

Could anyone imagine Moyes making a selection like playing a midfielder at centre back to improve the distribution from the back? These bright, imaginative managers are the way forward in my opinion.

Laudrup made his selection against lower league opposition, admittedly; we play lower league opposition on Tuesday night. Moyes will play one up front...

Just sayin...

I can't understand why there's not a lot of people having a pop at Howard Yea, he's made some great stops but he's also cost us a lot of points by staying on his line. Surely a keeper jumping with his arms stretched can get above any striker.

Dave Watson received more injuries from Big Nev coming out and winning the ball that was his area and no matter what or who was in the way, it was Big Nev's. Come on, you goalkeeping coaches, show a video of the Binman to Howard – it can only make him a better goalie.

Actually I thought Seamus was our most threatening player on the park. He can actually take the ball past a player and get a pass, shot or cross in. Isn't that what used to be called wingers do. The way Seamus was playing DM could have pushed him forward and brought on Heitinga at right back, or brought Duffy on and moved Jags to right back. Or even brought Neville on. Before anyone goes off their cruet at me for suggesting bringing on Neville, ask yourself this question, which combination offers the best balance of defence and attack on the right hand side of the park - Coleman + Naismith or Neville + Coleman?

PS can Duffy head the ball out of defence, has he got nobbly knees and elbows? If so play him on Tuesday night.
In conclusion - Something is wrong on the ship fellas and its doing my head in after the great football we were playing at the beginning of the season. Was it just a fluke that DM put the right combination of players out against Utd at the beginning of the season and they did the rest?

I know I'm ranting - I'm going to bed.

It's apparent to all that we are fragile at the back in the last 10 minutes of the game. This is were a strong midfield should be protecting the back four; instead, we have Osman and with Pienaar we have the most lightweight midfielders in the league. Only Fellaini gets stuck in but one man can't do it all.

The best defender of aerial balls is Jelavic who Moyes took off. I watched the match with a few mates and to a man we all knew what was about to happen. It's time Moyes went, he's been a great servant to Everton and been well paid for it but we need and deserve a better coach.

"The loud minority" ... you are totally out of synch with the rest of the fan-base. This so-called minority is becoming the majority.

You think we have improved every season? I believe we'll be lucky to remain mid-table. Liverpool and West Brom will soon be above us.

My son has been working in Hong Kong for five years, and each year he buys a Premier League TV package just so he can watch Everton. After the Norwich game, he said he can't bear to watch them anymore. He has cancelled his subscription.

David Moyes's decisions in team selection & substitutions from the bench have been ludicrous at best. His failure to bring through young players and promising reserves has been unforgivable.

Moyes has said if the fans turn against him, then he will leave. If he goes now, this will give the team a huge lift, and the caretaker manager may start making sensible selection decisions.

As Moyes probably doesn't read TW, I would be 100% in favour of a public protest demanding his immediate resignation.

Enough said.