Tiredness was mental, says Moyes

Oviedo and Barkley providing rest for Bainaar and Osman was poor, and to not include Heitinga more, allowing himself to go ring rusty had a direct effect on dropping points.

Reaching top 4 was only a 'could' and not a 'should' but he didn't help himself in this respect.

Annoyingly I'm looking at the table and thinking if results go our way this weekend we'd be three points off... stop it Nick.

More astounding negativity and soul-destroying lack of ambition from this man. You get 4th by picking up the points to put you there.

We had the best excuse ever today from one of his ardent admirers: "It's too easy" ... WTF!!?!? TOO EASY!!! I nearly threw the laptop at the TV...

We don't know how he is in the dressing room or in training and I'd guess some of that passion on the touch line that he's shown for example against City is their when it really counts.

Even if he is the dour Presbyterian he puts forth in interview, the team get their spirit from somewhere. Notably shown after the come back against Spurs.

He's the bleeding manager for God sake! People still blame money for our failures every year. It's mostly unambition like this that costs us. What message does that send out to the players?

"Don't bother going for 4th because there are no justifiable reasons to do so lads."
No wonder no one goes in for this idiot.

Who said that?

Revamp the wages for all clubs, standard 250000 a year and top up with massive win bonus, they will run all fuckin night to win.

Doddy, Nick, Hoare, Flynn and all will all be saying 'great, another 5 years of success', me, Michael, Marshy, Eugene, Ross, Crooks and all will be saying 'oh crap, another 5 years of mostly shite football, excuses, negativity, no wins away at the big 4 (Apparently this is just one of those anomalies that happens, good grief), no trophies (must be another anomaly) and bottling it in big games... can't wait!

But you're right: If he stays, nothing is gonna change.

Same old same old.

And as for 'mostly shite football', this shows an incredibly poor memory. Can you tell me a period since 1987 when we have played better football than this season? Walters teams containing 6 centre backs? The Dogs of War? HK3 or HK2?? Please help me out here...

That last one from Moyes - unbelievable. The aim of any game is to win. Every single game. If the attitude is anything like what that quote connotes, then there's no point in even turning up.

It's a bit like Bridge playing with 3 people and a dummy hand, there are 52 cards in the pack, I have seen 1/4 of them, I suspect due to the bids of the other 2 what they have, therefore on balance, given the probabilities and percentages, I will conceed.

Moyesie, sorry mate, but you are the dummy here, things happen, until all the cards are played it can go either way ( bit of quantum here for the nerds )

I don't think I can win so I won't risk it by having a go.

Go one Moyesie be a devil help yourself to a small slice of Hiesenbergs cake of uncertainty.

Footballs a raffle, by a ticket ffs

What I find strange about these comments is the double standard – that he's seems fine if we lose games because the experienced players aren't fresh or make mistakes because they're shit (Neville/Heitinga), but he's not prepared to give fringe players experience and risk losing games because they lost one game.

If you were a young/fringe player at Everton, would you be looking to stay? Or, if you were an experienced player who knew that the boss was going to keep playing you regardless of how shit you played, would you be motivated to give 100% effort in every game?

I suspect that, had Tony Hibbert been fit, Seamus Coleman would've never been given a decent run in the team in his natural position that has (hopefully) cemented his status as our 1st choice RB. How many other players do we have that could do a better job than the ones we see in the first 11? We'll probably never know.

I'd also agree completely with those who say his comments about 4th place are harmful to the club. Moyes is the motivator to the team, he sets the targets and the goals. He should be the most positive person at the club and the target should always be to finish as high as possible. Not look for excuses why we shouldn't be finishing higher.

To me, it's the same kind of arse covering as he's been spouting for a few years, in the same vein as his "knife to a gunfight" speeches. Perhaps he's hoping people will take more notice of how he's got us finishing a few places higher than our finances would suggest in the hope one of the rich clubs will offer him a contract?

Personally, I think talk like that will backfire for him because no club with any serious ambition of silverware will touch him with an attitude like that — which is in stark contrast to the mentality he had when he first came to us from Preston.

You may as well get to fuck then.

For Moyes then to conclude the way he did was premature. If he had given players such as Oveido, Vellios, Barkley and McAleny a chance this season, then we would have been better off for it in the total.

Though Moyes chose to play crap players such as Hitzlsperger, Naismith, Neville and in part Jelavic based on bad form. That cannot be seen as anything other than a clear mistake.

What Moyes should be focused on is the long-term good for the club. That lies in giving some youth players playing time.and sticking with them to see if they can take it and then choose to let them go or keep them.

If Moyes had played the more younger players then we would probably be around the same place we are now, but we would be stronger in knowing which youth players look good for the first team. Players such as McAleny and Vellios would have been better performers than Jelavic, if not both then at least one of them would have scored more than Jelavic.

One cup game early on in the season should not have impacted Moyes that hard; he made a mistake in playing too many reserves at once and so he should take the brunt of the blame for that. The exclusion of the youngsters has hurt the squad in my view, because we are so short on numbers. Moyes will have to better himself if he is going to take Everton further; the key lies in the youth — that much should be crystal clear to him by now.

Well, I'll tell you: A team that continually outspends us but we're continually above and then go and call Moyes. I mean, come on, please. The man has worked miracles. They would love someone like Moyes — and, believe me, I've heard them say it.

Kevin#357, the last 5 games count more when we are in a must win situation.

He has undoubtedly made mistakes, ( who hasn't), he has at times gone for safety and suffered for it, BUT, and it's a big BUT....can those who think he's the devil incarnate etc etc not maybe see that having just missed out on CL football, AND COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, shows that if nothing else the man has changed Evertonians expectations, and outlook, from perennial survivors, to being pissed off when we don't play like Barca, to being pissed off at not collecting at least 4 points from every other team in the league, can nobody see that?

Moyes undoubtedly has faults, but speaking with a bluntness and honesty that pisses off those who want rid of him isn't one of them. He maybe sometimes shows a bloody mindedness, but I agree with 99% of what he said.

He's a realist, and that's a trait I think some could do with having on here.

Some will never give him credit. I didn't hear the usual voices on here singing his praises when we outplayed City, or in other games where the plan worked to perfection...they seem to be quiet then.

The frustration at just missing out on CL football is actually a "good" sign. Our expectations have been raised. That's brilliant. But it does open the door to disappointment....

So what's it to be, abject disappointment at just missing out, or going back to the days of utter relief at surviving?????

Go on then, I'm ready!

“If anybody thought we should have finished fourth they would need to really justify the argument why because I would find it hard to see their reasons for that.”

Did anyone BELIEVE that we'd come fourth at the start of the season, honestly?

Did you? Not HOPED, but BELIEVED we would????

The Moyes sound bite: "If anybody thought we should have finished fourth they would really need to justify the argument why.." has wound-up a couple of ToffeeWebbers.

Interestingly, not one single critic of this statement has produced a convincing rebuttal to it.

I've seen him in a few reserve games and was at Fulham for his one start. He makes Anichebe look like Drogba, maybe he will improve but at the moment he's really not the answer.

Couldn't agree more!

No reasonable person would have expected us to finish 4th or higher on 1st august last year, but by christmas we were near the top, and we're still not far off. Do we rest on our laurels? Do we laud Moyes achievement so far and forget about the next 3 games just because we're ahead of where most of us might've expected?

Personally I dislike talk about we are expected to finish. Leave that for a post-season review. Take each game as it comes and give 100% and see what happens. The fact we've beaten a few richer clubs and are higher than the financial league table would place us counts for zero.

If you start looking at where you "should" come based on money and if you're having as good a season as we are, you inevitably start taking your foot off the gas. Forget money, forget squad size, forget the big personalities and superstar footballers other clubs might have; treat every game like a cup final and you might actually win something or at least realise your potential.

Based on past evidence I suspect the squad will go into the derby with an inferiority complex and lose. When your leader provides excuses about why you can't do something before you've even tried, then it doesn't bode well for our team's mental preparation for a game we absolutely can win.