Tiredness was mental, says Moyes

, Liverpool Echo , 27 April, 36comments  |  Jump to most recent
David Moyes was reluctant to accept the tiredness excuse being mooted for last week's poor performance at Sunderland but accepted it could be more mental than physical, as he confirmed his conviction that squad rotation was too much of a risk this season, and that 4th place was never going to happen.

“I come from the school where I expect you to be able to play three games in a week. I don't see that as being a big problem for anybody. But I'm also modern enough that I look at the sports science and I look to see the statistics for what's required.

“We had played incredibly well at Arsenal and wanted to try and replicate that as much as I could at Sunderland, even though I had to make a couple of changes.

“But I think that Arsenal game took a lot out of the players mentally. I hoped we'd recover because we played Tuesday to Saturday. If the game had been on the Sunday I thought we'd have been better still.

“But the big thing is we went to Sunderland who had that momentum with them. I don't think they necessarily played better. But we were not quite there.

“We changed the team at Leeds United in the cup. It didn't work. We gave opportunities and put people in the team. And it failed. So I took the decision then that I was roughly going to pick the best team for every game and if we tire, then we tire.

“After we were out the cup I wasn't going to take the risk any more. If we fail because we run out of legs, then so be it.

“I don't think we'll fizzle out because teams are a way ahead of us. They've been ahead of us for a while. We've been pretty close to Arsenal and Tottenham at times but they are getting away from us now. They had really good results last weekend when we didn't but we've been trying to hang in there a while so I don't think we'll just fizzle out.

“We know we've dropped a few points at places you maybe wouldn't expect but then we've beaten Man City and United at home. I wonder come the end if people will say Everton have roughly finished where most people would have put them.

“If anybody thought we should have finished fourth they would need to really justify the argument why because I would find it hard to see their reasons for that.”

Quotes or other material sourced from Liverpool Echo



Reader Comments (36)

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Nick Entwistle
1 Posted 27/04/2013 at 14:44:18
There's a difference in placing one player into the side to rest a first teamer, and stuffing the Leeds match full of no marks in the attempt to beat a professional outfit in front of 40,000.

Oviedo and Barkley providing rest for Bainaar and Osman was poor, and to not include Heitinga more, allowing himself to go ring rusty had a direct effect on dropping points.

Reaching top 4 was only a 'could' and not a 'should' but he didn't help himself in this respect.

Annoyingly I'm looking at the table and thinking if results go our way this weekend we'd be three points off... stop it Nick.

Michael Kenrick
2 Posted 27/04/2013 at 14:58:30
“If anybody thought we should have finished fourth they would need to really justify the argument why because I would find it hard to see their reasons for that.”


More astounding negativity and soul-destroying lack of ambition from this man. You get 4th by picking up the points to put you there.

Andy Crooks
3 Posted 27/04/2013 at 15:15:16
Ignore Spurs and Arsenal, just set up a side to beat Sunderland.
Nick Entwistle
4 Posted 27/04/2013 at 15:47:14
The difference between should and could is huge Micheal. Should we be above Spurs and Chelsea? Could yes, should - people can argue about. They too have had their faults and fuck ups like us so whatever we point to regards to Norwich or Fulham away, they can too.
Michael Kenrick
5 Posted 27/04/2013 at 16:56:55
It's the mentality, though, Nick. He talks about the mentality of the players but, for me, it always comes back to HIS mentality of dour negativity, sour Scottish Presbyterian humility, and a lack of the real drive needed to carry things through to the end, instead focussing on a myriad of pathetic excuses that manifests itsellf on the field in the minds of the players all to often.

We had the best excuse ever today from one of his ardent admirers: "It's too easy" ... WTF!!?!? TOO EASY!!! I nearly threw the laptop at the TV...

Nick Entwistle
6 Posted 27/04/2013 at 17:03:41
True, but I've never seen one interview from Moyes where he actually wanted to partake and enjoy the process like Mourinho or Redknapp etc. He is 'obliged' contractually I believe.

We don't know how he is in the dressing room or in training and I'd guess some of that passion on the touch line that he's shown for example against City is their when it really counts.

Even if he is the dour Presbyterian he puts forth in interview, the team get their spirit from somewhere. Notably shown after the come back against Spurs.

Ross Edwards
7 Posted 27/04/2013 at 17:47:19
"If anybody thought we should have finished fourth they would need to really justify the argument why because I would find it hard to see their reasons for that.”

He's the bleeding manager for God sake! People still blame money for our failures every year. It's mostly unambition like this that costs us. What message does that send out to the players?

"Don't bother going for 4th because there are no justifiable reasons to do so lads."
No wonder no one goes in for this idiot.

Jamie Barlow
8 Posted 27/04/2013 at 17:57:02
"Don't bother going for 4th because there are no justifiable reasons to do so lads."

Who said that?

Ross Edwards
9 Posted 27/04/2013 at 18:00:28
No one said that Jamie, it was me imagining Moyes talking to the players before the season started.
Ralph Basnett
11 Posted 27/04/2013 at 18:03:01
Bollox to mental or physical tiredness. Do soldiers get it, yes but excuse the pun they soldier on and don't earn anywhere near this payers.

Revamp the wages for all clubs, standard 250000 a year and top up with massive win bonus, they will run all fuckin night to win.

Robbie Shields
12 Posted 27/04/2013 at 23:13:15
Michael (#155), I couldn't believe the crap coming out Horne's mouth either. He's as dull, predictable and crap as a pundit as he was as a player. Leopards never change their spots, if Moyes stays, which is looking increasingly likely, then we can unfortunately continue to expect the same for the next 5 years.

Doddy, Nick, Hoare, Flynn and all will all be saying 'great, another 5 years of success', me, Michael, Marshy, Eugene, Ross, Crooks and all will be saying 'oh crap, another 5 years of mostly shite football, excuses, negativity, no wins away at the big 4 (Apparently this is just one of those anomalies that happens, good grief), no trophies (must be another anomaly) and bottling it in big games... can't wait!

Michael Kenrick
13 Posted 27/04/2013 at 23:29:47
You nailed it, Robbie. Horne drives me crazy with that shit.

But you're right: If he stays, nothing is gonna change.

Same old same old.

Phil Hamer
14 Posted 27/04/2013 at 23:41:50
Someone please save all these comments from Michael, Ross Edwards, Robbie Shields etc and we can remind them of their views two years after Moyes has left and we're back in 12th place. This is the only platform on the planet hosting a debate about whether Moyes is good enough to manage Everton FC.

And as for 'mostly shite football', this shows an incredibly poor memory. Can you tell me a period since 1987 when we have played better football than this season? Walters teams containing 6 centre backs? The Dogs of War? HK3 or HK2?? Please help me out here...

Roman Sidey
15 Posted 28/04/2013 at 00:23:36
Nick, your first post was pretty spot on, mate.

That last one from Moyes - unbelievable. The aim of any game is to win. Every single game. If the attitude is anything like what that quote connotes, then there's no point in even turning up.

Derek Thomas
16 Posted 28/04/2013 at 00:15:45
I'm with Michael and Robbie on this; All Moyeses points might be spot on correct and things will pan out as he ' thinks' they will...

It's a bit like Bridge playing with 3 people and a dummy hand, there are 52 cards in the pack, I have seen 1/4 of them, I suspect due to the bids of the other 2 what they have, therefore on balance, given the probabilities and percentages, I will conceed.

Moyesie, sorry mate, but you are the dummy here, things happen, until all the cards are played it can go either way ( bit of quantum here for the nerds )

I don't think I can win so I won't risk it by having a go.

Go one Moyesie be a devil help yourself to a small slice of Hiesenbergs cake of uncertainty.

Footballs a raffle, by a ticket ffs

Eric Myles
17 Posted 28/04/2013 at 08:24:11
If we hadn't have been so 'tired' we'd now be sitting 1 point off third place with the pressure on the teams around us to perform.
Kevin Day
18 Posted 28/04/2013 at 08:56:05
In my eyes the ONE game that stands out for me is Newcastle at home, robbed of 2 goals and 2 points, we'd be 1 point off 3rd if the ref never fucked us over that night. Bloody Moyes and his negativity.
Eric Myles
19 Posted 28/04/2013 at 12:17:42
I was thinking of more recent games Kevin (i.e. Sunderland), when we know results are extra important and are going to make a difference and we don't turn up.
Wayne Smyth
20 Posted 28/04/2013 at 11:53:06
Most people have picked up on the 4th place comment, which is understandable, but to me the most shocking thing there is that he played a few different players in ONE game which they lost, and from then on his mind has been fixed that he's going to play his "best" 11 in every game from then on.

What I find strange about these comments is the double standard – that he's seems fine if we lose games because the experienced players aren't fresh or make mistakes because they're shit (Neville/Heitinga), but he's not prepared to give fringe players experience and risk losing games because they lost one game.

If you were a young/fringe player at Everton, would you be looking to stay? Or, if you were an experienced player who knew that the boss was going to keep playing you regardless of how shit you played, would you be motivated to give 100% effort in every game?

I suspect that, had Tony Hibbert been fit, Seamus Coleman would've never been given a decent run in the team in his natural position that has (hopefully) cemented his status as our 1st choice RB. How many other players do we have that could do a better job than the ones we see in the first 11? We'll probably never know.

I'd also agree completely with those who say his comments about 4th place are harmful to the club. Moyes is the motivator to the team, he sets the targets and the goals. He should be the most positive person at the club and the target should always be to finish as high as possible. Not look for excuses why we shouldn't be finishing higher.

To me, it's the same kind of arse covering as he's been spouting for a few years, in the same vein as his "knife to a gunfight" speeches. Perhaps he's hoping people will take more notice of how he's got us finishing a few places higher than our finances would suggest in the hope one of the rich clubs will offer him a contract?

Personally, I think talk like that will backfire for him because no club with any serious ambition of silverware will touch him with an attitude like that — which is in stark contrast to the mentality he had when he first came to us from Preston.

Kevin Day
21 Posted 28/04/2013 at 12:56:06
That may be, Eric, but I'm still right.
Eric Myles
22 Posted 28/04/2013 at 13:11:13
True, Kevin, but there's been more than that 1 game where we've been robbed of points (12 points lost due to bad reffing in my book) but against Sunderland with the end in sight (only 5 games remaining), the players should have been looking to secure the points and not be thinking about their summer hols.
Kevin Day
23 Posted 28/04/2013 at 13:45:28
And I'm sure other teams can and do say the same; Spurs yesterday for example were worse than we were at Sunderland, and that draw has probably cost them when it matters. It's not just us that slip up.
Eric Myles
24 Posted 28/04/2013 at 13:56:06
Kevin, The games the first half of the season are all forgotten about. We need to concentrate on winning our games to win anything and there should be extra concentration on the prize with only a few games to go; we have nobody but ourselves to blame for Sunderland.
Paul Andrews
25 Posted 28/04/2013 at 14:18:09
Re the finishing 4th and "I would find it hard to see the reasons for that"

You may as well get to fuck then.

Kevin Day
26 Posted 28/04/2013 at 14:45:07
All the games count, first to last
Jimmy Sørheim
27 Posted 28/04/2013 at 17:25:19
I disagree with Moyes in the all-or-nothing approach. After losing to Leeds, it was clear that their match fitness was poor. Also, Moyes left out too many key players, and that was an error as Leeds are no small team in the lower leagues.

For Moyes then to conclude the way he did was premature. If he had given players such as Oveido, Vellios, Barkley and McAleny a chance this season, then we would have been better off for it in the total.

Though Moyes chose to play crap players such as Hitzlsperger, Naismith, Neville and in part Jelavic based on bad form. That cannot be seen as anything other than a clear mistake.

What Moyes should be focused on is the long-term good for the club. That lies in giving some youth players playing time.and sticking with them to see if they can take it and then choose to let them go or keep them.

If Moyes had played the more younger players then we would probably be around the same place we are now, but we would be stronger in knowing which youth players look good for the first team. Players such as McAleny and Vellios would have been better performers than Jelavic, if not both then at least one of them would have scored more than Jelavic.

One cup game early on in the season should not have impacted Moyes that hard; he made a mistake in playing too many reserves at once and so he should take the brunt of the blame for that. The exclusion of the youngsters has hurt the squad in my view, because we are so short on numbers. Moyes will have to better himself if he is going to take Everton further; the key lies in the youth — that much should be crystal clear to him by now.

Kevin Day
28 Posted 28/04/2013 at 18:02:50
Thing is, we are all frustrated at where we could be now had we just turned 2 of our 14 draws into wins, me included, but realistically, where should we be in the league? Top? No cos Man U have a bigger and better squad, 2nd? Again, city the same, 3rd? Ahead of Chelsea? With their resources? No. 4th? Could of been, but again with arsenal and spurs having a superior bench to ours, on paper those 2 have a similar quality 1st team to ours. I do not agree with the comments David Moyes has supposedly said, depending on the context they was written, but 5th/6th is about where right for where we are. Youth or no youth, we just don't have the quality on the bench.
Andy Meighan
29 Posted 28/04/2013 at 22:46:30
While we're all calling Moyes, can anyone on here please tell me where Liverpool are in the equation? No, seriously please.

Well, I'll tell you: A team that continually outspends us but we're continually above and then go and call Moyes. I mean, come on, please. The man has worked miracles. They would love someone like Moyes — and, believe me, I've heard them say it.

Eric Myles
30 Posted 29/04/2013 at 06:18:54
Jimmy #409, you criticise Moyes for playing crap players and say he should play Velios, yet when he did play him Velios was crap.

Kevin#357, the last 5 games count more when we are in a must win situation.

Kevin Day
31 Posted 29/04/2013 at 07:20:44
Of coarse they do Eric, I've not once denied that, my main point was, had the rules of the game been applied correctly earlier in the season, IE Newcastle at home, penalties away at QPR, then we wouldn't of been under so much pressure in the last 5 games. But like I also pointed out, other teams also slip up, both spurs and arsenal did this weekend.
Brian Williams
32 Posted 29/04/2013 at 07:58:06
I sometimes wonder (and I'm NOT a Moyes apologist, a term which I think some people use when they're disagreed with) how all the people who've played the game professionally, been involved with management in the game, have a broad based experience over a number of years in the game as a job.....have the opinion that Moyes has done absolute miracles at the club, while SOME people who've played in the Sunday league, never worked at a football club, never worked in football, and base their opinions (in my opinion) on their own expectations and frustrations....think he's rubbish.

He has undoubtedly made mistakes, ( who hasn't), he has at times gone for safety and suffered for it, BUT, and it's a big BUT....can those who think he's the devil incarnate etc etc not maybe see that having just missed out on CL football, AND COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, shows that if nothing else the man has changed Evertonians expectations, and outlook, from perennial survivors, to being pissed off when we don't play like Barca, to being pissed off at not collecting at least 4 points from every other team in the league, can nobody see that?

Moyes undoubtedly has faults, but speaking with a bluntness and honesty that pisses off those who want rid of him isn't one of them. He maybe sometimes shows a bloody mindedness, but I agree with 99% of what he said.

He's a realist, and that's a trait I think some could do with having on here.

Some will never give him credit. I didn't hear the usual voices on here singing his praises when we outplayed City, or in other games where the plan worked to perfection...they seem to be quiet then.

The frustration at just missing out on CL football is actually a "good" sign. Our expectations have been raised. That's brilliant. But it does open the door to disappointment....

So what's it to be, abject disappointment at just missing out, or going back to the days of utter relief at surviving?????

Go on then, I'm ready!


Brian Williams
33 Posted 29/04/2013 at 08:21:27
Sorry, forgot to say....

“If anybody thought we should have finished fourth they would need to really justify the argument why because I would find it hard to see their reasons for that.”


Did anyone BELIEVE that we'd come fourth at the start of the season, honestly?

Did you? Not HOPED, but BELIEVED we would????

Kevin Hudson
34 Posted 29/04/2013 at 08:27:03
Got to agree with Brian,

The Moyes sound bite: "If anybody thought we should have finished fourth they would really need to justify the argument why.." has wound-up a couple of ToffeeWebbers.

Interestingly, not one single critic of this statement has produced a convincing rebuttal to it.

Sam Hoare
35 Posted 29/04/2013 at 09:19:38
I'm sick of people calling for Vellios. Have any of you actually seen him play?

I've seen him in a few reserve games and was at Fulham for his one start. He makes Anichebe look like Drogba, maybe he will improve but at the moment he's really not the answer.

Kevin Day
36 Posted 29/04/2013 at 10:56:24
Brian Williams

Couldn't agree more!

Wayne Smyth
37 Posted 29/04/2013 at 17:31:04
Moyes statement on 4th is perfectly reasonable in some respects. But that and other comments he makes gives clues into his mentality. I'd love to know the question he was asked for him to come out with such a quote.

No reasonable person would have expected us to finish 4th or higher on 1st august last year, but by christmas we were near the top, and we're still not far off. Do we rest on our laurels? Do we laud Moyes achievement so far and forget about the next 3 games just because we're ahead of where most of us might've expected?

Personally I dislike talk about we are expected to finish. Leave that for a post-season review. Take each game as it comes and give 100% and see what happens. The fact we've beaten a few richer clubs and are higher than the financial league table would place us counts for zero.

If you start looking at where you "should" come based on money and if you're having as good a season as we are, you inevitably start taking your foot off the gas. Forget money, forget squad size, forget the big personalities and superstar footballers other clubs might have; treat every game like a cup final and you might actually win something or at least realise your potential.

Based on past evidence I suspect the squad will go into the derby with an inferiority complex and lose. When your leader provides excuses about why you can't do something before you've even tried, then it doesn't bode well for our team's mental preparation for a game we absolutely can win.


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