How the Blues made good

Moyes: "Initiative? I didn't tell you to use your initiative"

Great article. If you've seen moneyball, using the data mentioned in the article, you'll know that all these old talent scouts were saying play this player, play that player, but the stats showed a different angle that lead to improved play.

I don't know what they were saying about Neville, but we've now found the reason, surely!

I wasn't too fond of the author of the piece either who states that (Everton) " were – and are – the second club of England’s poorest city."

The article focuses on how Moyes gets analysis of opposition tactics to stop them, what it doesn't reveal is if or how he uses them to dictate offensive tatcics. Extending the same logic, then surely you can tell a lot about how teams shape up and how gaps / spaces appear for us Everton to exploit?

My other concern is about flexibility. If you base your gameplan on predictibility and you come across an opposition manager who is unpredictable and willing to try new things in a match it could throw a spanner in the works! Perhaps explains why historically Moyes has utterly failed to make crucical changes in games when we need them?

Something which Pat Nevin talks about here... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21838331

I can't believe anyone thinks the stats aren't used for attacking play also. Revie used to care only for the opposition, and Clough only cared for what his team did.
We know which football was the better, but in terms of cup finals and titles (including the being robbed blind on a few occasions) Revie has it.

I wonder if our strikers are given a defensive tracking role when we don't have the ball? Something to look out for at Anfield I suppose.

The problem Moyes has always had is that he's never had a sufficient amount of money to fill his squads with quality players to maintain a good attacking style of football. Unfortunately players get injured and players lose form, and Moyes has never had enough quality in reserve.

Come on Kenwright et al, shake some loose. You can't take it with you.

He has to stop other teams playing by well laid tactical plans because he knows the limitations of his own players. At last this season he had assembled the best footballing side he has ever had but was let down badly in January when the only activity this club had was in loaning OUT four players.
He must have felt he had been kicked in the teeth.

The only investors this club has is its fans who pay to watch and buy merchandise.
The board hang onto their shares, watch for free and take merchandise when they want it.
The signing of two decent squad m,embers would have given the fans a fillip and freshened the team up for the chase for europe.
This board room has let us all down badly.

Moyes OU . . .hold on. Let me think. No, Moyes OUT. It is fucking Moyes. All his years in the Prem he hasn't figured out to simply sign world-class strikers.

So obvious.

Yes, I didn't mention Rooney but I think he is an exception in many ways.

This is not necessarily an advantage....it also explains why the guy has to stand on the sidelines and shout every pass, tackle and fart to the players, some of whom are probably confused as hell.

A depressing gloss about Moyes while ignoring the elephant in the room with blithe comments about cheap furniture.

The question why THIS club out of the original Prem cartel has fayred so badly and by such a distance eludes todays journos, it's just a waste of ink.

The new EFC emblem should be without a laurel - how hypocritical the trappings of a champion be applied at a ghost club run and managed by buffoons.

"Right lads, I've looked at Liverpool on the video against Newcastle and I must say, we look like complete underdogs. But, don't let that worry you. We will hold them then score to make it 1-0. We hold on until the 75th minute then I bring on you, Nais, and take you off, Kev. Don't worry, Ossie; if you play poorly, you still complete the 90 minutes.

"Plan A has been explained, but then when Liverpool score, Plan B is called Operation White Flag in which we simply retreat and play hopeless hoofball up to you Vic to make it look like we are still in it.

"The best we can expect here lads, is a result, not a win, let's not get carried away. Remember, I am famous all over the world for consistency and outperforming on a small budget so a point will reconfirm that. So, Plan A, keep it tight, then score in the 35th minute, then I hold on for 40 minutes until I bring you on Nais, then we panic a bit and retreat in Operation White Flag, which as I explained already, is Plan B.

"Remember, result, consistency, underdogs – NOT ambition, win and achievement. Got that? Right, see you later, I've got a flight to catch..."

And his team went on to the 75 European Cup final and lost to a complaining Beckenbauer who Gerrard obviously took notes from...and not to mention about 6 runners up spots in the league, including the Astle 'off side'... which wasn't offside but I'm throwing that in.

We are badly run, I admit, but we are a massive fucking club. COYB!!!!

FFS! We are 5 points in front of the RS with 3 games to play, at least Moyes has given us hope, that's something we never had much of before he came here. If you're this negative now, what was you like when Mike Walker, Howard Kendall 3 and Walter Smith were in charge?

I think we'll win 3-0, Jela hat-trick.

COYB!

Unfortunately my friend there isn't. One day, hopefully with us, he will get the opportunity to play with some cash without having to sell, and if its not with us, it will be very sad.

Exactly; very well put. If only we had a chairman with the foresight and acumen of, say, Daniel Levy, what could Moyes achieve? It doesn't bear thinking about.

I think people, or at least I hope, we are all realising what we have to lose if the man moves on.

Kenwright, sort it out.

It remains frustrating though that we can do so well against the big clubs and drop so many points against the lower sides. We dropped 2 against QPR, Wigan and 3 at Reading. That's the three current relegation spots. Take those 7 points and we are third.

I had not observed that, actually. (That may change when he does leave, though!)

Would stand to reason he knows his trade. It's akin to saying red Adair is shit at putting out fires. But we pay him millions to do it anyway.

Don't make sense to say he's tactically inept – doesn't always get it right – yes.

But hey, here on ToffeeWeb, we have:

Anthony Flack who seems to be suggesting a tactic of 'not' tracking back

Kevin Tully who seems to think that strikers should not have a role to play defensively. Watch Messi Kevin as he presses the opposition defenders in their half. Why did Vic get a standing ovation when he chased and harried Man City defenders before eventually winning back the ball from Kompany. Should he not do this Kevin?

James Flynn wants David Moyes out because he hasn't signed a world class striker. How many clubs of Everton's means have signed world class strikers recently?

Ross Edwards is over the moon, for once, that we are 5 points ahead of a team called RS, but still devotes his time to arguing for a change in manager on a daily basis.

Barry Rathbone refers to the article as a 'dreadful piece' and a 'depressing gloss about Moyes', hardly the same Barry Rathbone who wrote a dreadful piece recently suggesting a midfield role next season for Big Vic. Tactical masterclass that was.

Thankfully, there is an element of sanity returning to ToffeeWeb as we enter the final 3 games of the season within 3 points of our record Premier League haul. Some of the football played early in the season with our strongest squad was fantastic.

As other have said on here. Watching opposition games in detail and planning a team's strategy when our opponents have the ball is a must for every manager and it doesn't end there. The same tapes are used to identify and exploit weaknesses in opponents defences when we have the ball.

Unless one is sat behind the dug out, it is hard to hear what instructions David Moyes is giving to the team. Watching The Oldham away game on TV, he can be clearly heard saying 'get the ball down and pass it, pass it'. Several times, he can be seen trying to push our defensive line forward, rather than fall back to protect a lead.

Credit where it's due to David Moyes who deserves more backing from the board, who deserves more commercial awareness to generate funds, who is using the non-signing of a new contract as a bargaining tool to try to extract funds to team strengthening. Well done Simon Kuper for highlighting the depth of effort made by David Moyes to prepare his teams properly.

The quote from performance analyst James Smith at the end of Kuper's article says it all about our great club and is the reason I think David Moyes will find it hard to walk away.

The very best don't manage by numbers. If you play the percentages against top sides, you usually get beaten.

The Moyes years – a story of success

Aug 2004: Wayne Rooney sold to Manchester United for £25.6m
Jan 2005: Mikel Arteta arrives on loan from Real Sociedad. Signs for £2m in July 2005. Sold to Arsenal for £10m in 2011
Sept 2008: Marouane Fellaini bought from Standard Liege for more than £15m, breaking the club’s transfer record
Nov 2012: Leon Osman, who has played more than 300 games for Everton, makes England debut, aged 31

Maybe they have a slightly different definition of success.

Colin I think you will find that Liverpool's gory as built on the Triangular Trade i.e. Manufactured goods from UK to Africa, Slaves from Africa to the USA, and raw materials from both Africa and the USA back to UK. Unfortunately none of those commodities or trade routes shipping methods or markets exist anymore and when the Militant Socialist Dockers refused to handle Containers 'cos, it would impact on their robbin', Europort which COULD have been in Liverpool or partially in Liverpool went instead to Rotterdam and Liverpool went in to a steady decline from which it has never recovered.

I can vividly remember coming home periodically in the 60s and 70s and you could SEE the decline in visits only a few months apart. My family and friends who stayed in Liverpool of course could not see it nor accept what I was telling them. But Liverpool literally fell apart almost before your very eyes.

What evidence is there for your assertion that Moyes ' ... is using the non-signing of a new contract as a bargaining tool to try to extract funds to team strengthening.'? I note this alleged strategy didn't inspire the Board to support Moyes' chase for 4th place back in January. For all we know Moyes is merely keeping his options open, which could leave the club scrambling for a replacement if he subsequently decides to leave.

The article is quite interesting & echoes some of the tactical points made on Executioners Bong regarding Moyes' thoroughness in analysing & planning to thwart the opposition. However, it is interesting that there is little to indicate the use if this particular approach offensively, which one would assume is the flip side, as it were.

I'm with many of the posters above (James Davies, Kevin Tully, Ernie Baywood etc).

I just read this and my heart sinks. What a horrible article. It's also bollocks. If Moyes tailors his approach to each team individually, why do we always come out 4-5-1? And had it not occurred to to him that if someone's sitting in the oppositions dugout doing exactly the same thing we are ultimately going to end up with one result more than any — draw.

The great managers only worry about what their own team can do, not the opposition. This article says it all for me. No imagination, no creativity, just mind numbing paralysis by analysis.

Moyes Out.

Then you got to the "Moyes has 'em over a barrel" fabrication and I realised you are a comedian - well done.

What crap.

All this article is doing is popping down the shops to buy the Emperor some new clothes.

And while we're at it – was Steve Round on holiday? What does he do?!?!

You're right, it was crap in that I exaggerated but great managers don't take the approach Moyes does of concentrating on what the other team are going to do, the primarily focus on what they are going to do to the opposition.

Again, apologies.

Sustained applause for the post of the month. I note that you provided a critique of the more asinine posts by the anti-Moyes cabal, in a polite, well-phrased contribution.

I trust that you won't come in for any ad hominem abuse, which is their usual response when they have no argument. Oh wait...

Namely, that he's a stickler for detail, and very precise in his prep & planning. Moyes has to squeeze every ounce out of his limited group – and he does it brilliantly.

By his own admission, Mancini never prepared his team properly when they visited Goodison last year and, with the luxury squad he has at his disposal, I doubt he spends even half the time Moyes does on detail.

Predictably, there are those who simply cannot stop themselves from parsing elements of the article, in order to spin an all too-familiar & negative take; just as predictably, I'm acknowledging a manager who uses every available resource to educate his team & maximise performance.

I agree with that and the corollary is that if (and when) he gets the chance to work with a more talented, better-funded squad he may well achieve the trophy success he deserves.

I fervently hope that will happen at Everton.

Not one of the Moyes critics looks at the real stats...we have used less players than any other premier league side. Our activity in the last transfer window was no-one IN and four loaned OUT!!

The Fer episode was a huge slap in the face for every EFC fan including DM. As was the Ofoe debacle !!

The only investors in our once great club are the fans. We pay to watch, we buy the merchandise. The board meanwhile sit on their shares and invest nothing!! Dave Whelan at Wigan is worth more than every board member we have put together.

What part of the Tory voting world do you live in now?

That for me is what David Moyes lacks a bit of, hence why he has over-performed in relation to the wealth of the club but still come up short in the decisive moments.

On the 'fan' site, the vast majority of posters selectively pick out points to underline their preconceived ideas about why he's a crap manager that will never win anything. Suffice to say this is almost the complete antithesis of what the article and in truth virtually all independent/neutral commentators say.

Should we be disappointed about not being top 4 and looking forward to a cup final? Damned right. Four questions though for the MOYB.

Q1: Is it Moyes's fault that we haven't achieved this?

Or is it down to a combination of terrible refereeing decisions that have cost us 8-10 points, a lack of investment at key times when the squad needed a boost, star striker losing his bottle, and the team just not turning up for a couple of key matches (victories vs Wigan and Sunderland would have us looking at a totally different situation today – assured of European football, likely looking forward to a cup final and 2 pts off 4th)

Q2: Which 'dour, defensive' team created most chances in the Premier League in the first half of the season (and is still among top 5 or 6)?

I'll give you a clue, they play in Royal Blue.

Q3: But who's played a massive role in helping to raise those ambitions?

Since the Premier League started (and even since our mid-80s spell of dominance) Everton had spent far more time in the bottom half and skirting relegation than considering European football – just one top 10 finish in the 90s. In the 11 seasons (including this) since Moyes began his tenure, we'll only have finished outside of the top 10 twice (and one of those was 11th) and have been a fixture in the teams challenging for European football every year, qualifying 4 times before this season (which looks like it will sadly come up short).

Q4: What manager in the league do you genuinely believe would have done a better job with the resources available (ie, very limited)?

I know that this argument won't be welcome by most, relying as it does on actual facts and independent viewpoints rather than entrenched perception, but then perhaps I'm just not bitter enough to be one of the 'real' Evertonians?

Bloody hell! I thought it would be impossible to top Frank's post but that one is a gem.

Only the deludes call us "the Bitters".

Who's to say that a different manager may have got more out of a team that contained Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill, Saha, Fellaini, Jags, Baines etc???

I think a different manager would have given Ross a lot more game time than Naismith this season.

I think a different manager may have dropped Osman when he was clearly unfit and off-form.

In answer to Q1 - we didn't win v Wigan or Sunderland and it was the nature of the defeats that rankle more than anything. Moyes dropped Gibson in the Cup match and got it wrong.

INCREDIBLY respected?

Really?

By who?

Is this "relying on actual facts" or is it an "entrenched perception"?

Let's see if this modern great can find a way to beat a team below us tomorrow eh?

'Only the deludes call us "the bitters".'

Not actually true: I know Spurs, Chelsea and Man Utd fans that also referee to Evertonians in the same way. I also have fellow Blues who jokingly use the term also.

"Who's to say that a different manager may have got more out of a team that contained Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill, Saha, Fellaini, Jags, Baines etc???"
Um, and who's to say they would? Pure conjecture and a totally moot point, although it may be worth noting who bought all those players in at prices way below their market value...

"I think a different manager would have given Ross a lot more game time than Naismith this season."

That is likely true... although, bar the Spurs game and one or two moments early on, I remain to be convinced Barkley is yet a Premier League standard player. I will agree that Naismith's game time later in the season is slightly bewildering (although to be fair he looked like one of our better players in a limp pre-season) and I will agree his main skillset appears to be 'running about'. I'd also point out Berkley was started in two of our biggest games vs Spurs (in which he did well) and Arsenal (in which he was largely anonymous).

"I think a different manager may have dropped Osman when he was clearly unfit and off form."
Possibly so, again it's conjecture as to whether they would and whether a replacement would improve the squad. Osman was unarguably one of our best creative players early doors capable of creating opportunities that changed matches (hence the deserved England call up). I agree he's looked inconsistent recently, but the same argument that says Barkley and Co need to be played into form surely applies to Osman as well.

"In answer to Q1 - we didn't win v Wigan or Sunderland and it was the nature of the defeats that rankle more than anything. Moyes dropped Gibson in the Cup match and got it wrong."
It's possible Moyes made a mistake here definitely (as do all managers), but we obviously don't know all the factors, it's not like Gibson is immune from injury for instance so maybe he was carrying a knock. I'd also have argued that we should have been able to roll over Wigan without our strongest team. The fact we lost so badly can't be ascribed to just one player change, the team as a whole didn't perform on the day. It happens to all teams at one time or another (even the mighty Spaniards have been taught lessons this season).

Comparing anyone to Messi is a little silly, especially our strikers! It was clear the Yak wasn't able to play this type of game, that may be the reason he was shipped out to Blackburn for £1m.

He then went on to score 17 Premier League goals for a relegated side. That season we couldn't buy a goal when Saha was played up front on his own if you remember.

Blackburn's much maligned manager was quoted as saying "I only tell Yakubu to play the width of the box."

Maybe we could have got those 17 goals out of him?

"The dockers refused to handle containers because it would impact on their robbing."

I think the following list of transfer spending over the last decade (taken from the BBC website) demonstrates clearly how effective Moyes is:

Expenditure (in millions)
1. Chelsea 673
2. Man City 572
3. Liverpool 414
4. Man Utd 352
5. Tottenham 350
6. Arsenal 214
7. Aston Villa 201
8. Sunderland 187
9. Newcastle 174
10. Everton 129
11. West Ham 123
12. Wigan 110
13. Fulham 107

There are only three teams that are actually higher placed in the PL compared to their position in the above list, Man Utd, Arsenal & Everton. I prefer to take this as a measure of success, over the utterly useless 'hasn't won at a sky 4 side' stat. Amazingly it is not the media that came up with that stat, but our own fans.

But even if Everton win tomorrow, it will not change people's opinions. Just like how we (quite rightly) saw Moyes get slated previously for the terrible starts to a season. This season, we started well and have rarely been outside the top 6. But any credit given? Don't be stupid!

It also begs the question if Moyes HAD won a cup during his tenure, would it really have made a difference to people's perceptions? I seriously doubt it.

Conveniently haven't mentioned yet.

I thought the article was good, the only thing that worries me is the whole "we must focus on the opposition" argument, which is where I think the article is misleading.

You would think with our resources, it is not surprising, but we do actually have good players. We have the best fullback in the league, England's best centre back (in my opinion), two class wingers and a £25 million affro-haired midfield enforcer. Our first team I would say is the 6th best team in the league, so we are over-achieving massively with the squad. But I don't buy the whole "focusing on the opposition" thing, because we have good players to damage other teams.

That's where the article is misleading.

I also think that this dour hoof ball style of Moyes is a fallacy.

We play better football than two thirds of the Prem and funnily enough when the football looks bad it coincides with poor form – and when we're on form the football is great. Funny how that happens.

Well reasoned, but a few "possibles" and the like. Fans who want Moyes to stay will give him the benefit of the doubt. Fans who want a change will highlight any mistakes.

I think his inability to get a single away win at Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal has been down to his (in my opinion) over-cautious, defence-first tactics against the 'big boys'. The fact we seem to have the hoodoo sign over City should be taken as a sign that we should be capable of beating anyone in their own backyard, but against the old traditional Sky 4 we all too often revert to KIPATAN1.

Firstly Chris, not biting on your attempts to deflect (re what I do/don't read etc).

Secondly, I notice your 'INCREDIBLY respected national newspaper" (101) has now become merely a 'respected national newspaper'

(if we wait for a few more posts will it become a hopeless financial rag?).

Want a fact?

It's level of respect is subjective.

In other words, whether it is 'respected' or not is (coincidentally like 99% of all debate on Moyes) a matter of opinion, consequently stating it's 'incredibly respected' DOESN'T strengthen your opinion, it weakens it as you appear to be clutching at straws to get your opinion across

Seriously, am I (is anyone) supposed to think "Hey maybe I'll change my opinion on Moyes, which is based on 11 years of ME watching his Everton sides, because Chris James reckons an article in a primarily financial newspaper says he's doing the (no pun etc) business"?

Do I respect the FT?

No (clue's in the title).

Do most people in Britain respect it?

I don't think so, I'm 54 and nobody has ever told me they do.

Are there people with shares in ACME who respect the paper?

I'm sure there are.

And?

Does the FT follow and obsess over Everton/Moyes EVERY day and watch just about every game?

No?

Do they have space to fill?

Yes.

Do they...well you know what, you can ask and answer all these questions yourself, should you have a desire to and you don't let any agenda get in the way.

Look I'll spell it out - Margaret Thatcher was recently described as having been 'incredibly respected' but for many (like me) she was a vindictive putrid venal old gash.

See what I mean?

I'm more inclined to believe that it's down to psychology than tactics and teams/players that have actually won something or win regularly able to turn up a gear and having that extra edge. You can of course argue that it's down to Moyes to instil this belief and to an extent that's fair, but there is no substitute for experience.

I think the performances are moving in the right way and this year from 6 games we've got 6 points via 1 win, 3 draws and 2 defeats (the Chelsea one pretty narrow) with 2 games still to come. I'd hope that we can make it at least increase that to 9, but still I agree it's not great.

However, if you include the entire top 5 above us + Liverpool (Sky 6?), our points average looks decidedly better. Taking 4 points each from City and Spurs, leaves us with 3 wins, 5 draws and 2 defeats from 10 matches and a total of 14 points from a possible 30 (and arguably we could/should have had 4 more due to last minute Spurs equaliser and dodgy Man City penalty).

If we could finish on a high by taking 4 points from the Chelsea/Liverpool matches coming (a tall order I appreciate), then we'd end up on 18 out of 36 points which I think you'd have to agree is a pretty respectable haul against the biggest and best (and much better funded) teams in the country, effectively sharing the points (although it's actually better than that, as the other teams would have only garnered 12 points from matches against us).

I personally consider the FT to be an incredibly respected paper (sorry if didn't check my original post word for word in a light discussion on a fan forum, your honour) and also more objective and neutral on football issues than most papers partly because it's at a remove and doesn't follow every game in intricate detail. On which point, I'm assuming that as you do follow each game in Opta-esque detail, you're building in every single aspect of every performance into your argument rather than just picking points that suit your argument and ignoring the rest?

I'd also like to point out that the article in question was based upon hard data not the usual opinion and stereotypes from jovial ex-players and world-weary journos trying to fill space.

My key objection to your ripose however, which ties neatly into your talk of deflection, is that the 'respectability' or otherwise is blatantly not really the core tenant of my argument. The point being that it was the latest in a fair line of independent articles/views/reports giving Moyes credit and respect for what he's achieved that was immediately hacked down and twisted by those who appear desperate to condemn Moyes a hopeless failure regardless of the facts.

I'm going to assume you belong to that not so happy band of followers, whereas I'm clearly a rose-tinted Moyes apologist (you should check out my Naismith rants in live forums to underpin this 'fact') but whilst the football world may continue to disappoint (for at least 3 more games of Davey in charge) you can at least find solace in the local election results.

Here's a thought, amongst all this talk of whether or not Simon Kuper or the FT are "respected", can I put forward the idea that ToffeeWeb is, in itself, a "respected" football fan site? It is, you know! That makes the opinion of its contributors – us lot – worthy of "respect". So, essentially, it's a battle of two highly/incredibly respected teams, with the outcome very much in the balance.

Alright, who's going to go in goal?

Incidentally, this 'divide' that I talk about seems to exist solely on the pages of this website. I cannot think of another website, fanzine, pub, a section of the ground where this debate even exists. This is primarily because ranting about how Moyes should be sacked would probably be greeted with derision in any other place/platform.

Unfortunately I've noticed that the word 'ToffeeWebbers' has in some places become a byword for short sighted, abusive or unknowledgeable internet trolls who think Everton should sack one of the highest rated managers in the UK. ('Highest Rated' by people who actuall play/analyse/coach the game on a professional level, as opposed to people who watch the game as a hobby). This is quite sad because ToffeeWeb provides a fantastic link to all the best Everton related articles on the web, such as the superb piece by Simon Kuper that started this thread. It just seems that opening up the website to more user-generated content has turned it into one enormous platform for a debate that just doesn't exist elsewhere. The threads of almost every article posted by Lyndon or Michael (the article could be about how expensive the pies are at Goodison, or how horrible the lager is..) invariably descend into the same tired, exhausting, infuriating 'Moyes Debates' between the same two groups of people.

I spend more time shaking my head in disbelief at this website than actually enjoying the articles provided. The problem is it's strangely addictive in a negative & unpleasant way..

..and maybe I've just hit the nail on the head...

The bitters and deluders might even give each other some manly hugs too.

If we win tomorrow, I'll hug my wife, kiss my pint and neck the dog.

Would you like me to recommend some articles on Liverpool's 18th century growth? Liverpool and its port profited more from being the prime exporter of the Industrial Revolution than from the Slave triangle.

Why on earth do you seek to tarnish the city you left behind like this? Quite frankly, seems to me that you are trying to justify your own lived life. Slavery, yes, and let's have a pop at Bristol too while we are at it. But that's not the complete story by a golden mile. Liverpool also had the first permanent Chinese and Black communities in any English city.

Now put your little anti-Liverpool arrows back in your home counties pouch, there's a good chap. I promise to always hum 'The Great Escape' whenever I happen to come across another post from your gilt-edged pen.

"... can I put forward the idea that ToffeeWeb is, in itself, a "respected" football fan site? It is, you know!..."

You certainly can; but... don't go near the People's Forum

I think your list of club spending is very misleading. You've got to take into account the net spend of clubs. Spurs and Arsenal's net spend is pretty much zero, the same as ours give or take a few million. Then the second major factor you decided not to mention, is the wage bills. The wage bill is a major factor in dictating the quality and size of a squad a manager is capable of putting together. We are pretty much even with Arsenal and Spurs in terms of net spend, but we spend nowhere near as much on wages

And that sums up why I am proud to call myself an Evertonian.

Yeah and you avoid the pitfalls of your little list of no-nos? Good writing? As a humanities professor in a Carnegie-Mellon research university would you like me to critique your writing?

'People who watch the game as a hobby'. How dare you write that drivel. Your constructed world of binary polarities is in your head friend. So, people who are on your 'other side' watch EFC for a 'hobby'?

Your post is shameful, reprehensible, and as deeply divisive as anything that you castigate.

Oh, by the way, 'this may sound snobbish but it's simply true', you don't write that well either. And, 'this may sound snobbish but it's simply true', your interpretation that 'posts from readers on the other [anti-Moyes] side tend to be repetetive [please learn how to spell repetitive] , poorly written and often very abusive', is little short of hilarious and utterly upside down.

Thanks for the salutary tutorial. I have no idea what world you move in but it's not one that the majority of blues move in, where debate about Moyes goes on day-after-day. And, your intervention while smug and smarmy is nowhere near as smart and cultured as you think it is.

Never heard of you on these boards before; hoping against hope that your smug little patois disappears like a slug under a boot in a flash.

'People who watch football as a hobby.' I obviously include myself in that. My point is that when you have respected pundits, managers and coaches talking highly about Moyes, I tend to trust their opinion more than a fan who comes on here and says 'Dour Davey Negative Hoofball always bottles vs the RS and it's time he fucks off..'

Apologies that my post caused you so much anger, but if you think my words were 'shameful, reprehensible, and as deeply divisive as anything that you castigate', then dude you need to get a more balanced view of life.

I'm extremely impressed that you are a humanities professor in a Carnegie-Mellon research university. As I'm sure everyone else is. I also bow to your superior vocabulary. ('Your constructed world of binary polarities is in your head friend'). Yep, you've got me there.

As for your last line. Wow. Loving that slug reference. I wonder if you'd use that line if we were talking face to face in the boozer.

Something tells me your persona would be very different in that situation.

You're an overblown idiot.

Phil Jagielka, The Sunday Times - 05/05 /13.

See you lads tomorrow!

I am in no way a 'thug slug', I do not own a staff bull and am not into death metal.

If anybody said to you what you just said to me in your last comment, you would spontaneously combust. And if you said those things to someone while not behind the safety screen of internet obscurity you would find yourself in a great deal of trouble.

You must be a very, very unhappy man Paul. Just stop digging now and leave it.

Not sure why some of these posts end up in slanging matches or am I just being boring?

Such ignorance is no surprise from a johnny-foreigner-come-lately to the English game – the unholy journalistic trinity of Marcotti, Balague and Honigstein are other examples of this beast. However, what it also does is to indict the Bill Kenwright regime for making the Blues the worst-funded big club in the history of the Premier League.

Their legacy – constituted by failed ground moves, failed sponsorship deals, non-existent transfer funds and a divided fanbase – is the cliche that Everton are punching above their weight or overachieving even by finishing among the Premier League's top six, seven or eight. Never mind the club's overall status as one of the top flight's four best-performing teams of all time.

Because of the straitened, mortgaged-to-the-hilt circumstances that the Kenwright regime have imposed on Everton for 13-odd years now (remember how they failed to make a first-team cash signing for 2½ years, between Heitinga and Gibson), the club's name is becoming dangerously synonymous with impoverished, if gallant, underdogs.

This "can't do" board have consistently let us down (apart from Finch Farm, when have they actually delivered something?); they get one last chance to surprise us this summer when David Moyes will ask for the funds required to sustain Everton's place towards the top of the table. Yet is anybody really expecting "can't" to suddenly become "can" on this one occasion?

Beyond the managerial question, though, the Evertonian brand will continue to suffer the longer the club are associated with a board of directors who are both unwilling and, all the evidence suggests, utterly incapable of moving EFC forward. If Evertonians are happy to be outperformed commercially by the likes of Norwich and Fulham, or to be outspent by Stoke, QPR et al, then perhaps this talk of doing away with the Nil Satis motto is justified after all.