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The Rumour Mill

Everton make Almeida enquiry

19/06/2013 | Comments (102)
Everton have approached Besiktas about Portuguese striker Hugo Almeida according to Turkish-Football.com.

The 29 year-old is surplus to requirements at the Super Lig side after Director of Football Önder Özen told reporters that Besiktas "will consider offers for Almeida, especially if we can't reach an agreement regarding his wages."

Almeida joined Besiktas from Werder Bremen two years ago for €2m but though he has notched nine goals 20 this past season, his wages have become unsustainable for the club.

Original Source: Turkish-Football.com  Rumour source ranking:
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Reader Comments

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Phil Sammon
908 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:19:32
Unsustainable wages?

Send him here, where money is no object.

Paul Ellam
910 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:30:51
I would still prefer we went for a younger, more prolific scorer... but he is better than nothing I guess.
Drew Shortis
911 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:32:50
A decent enough player, but I'm sure we can do better. More paper speculation. I expect we will be linked to half the players in Europe before the summer is over!
Kieran Fitzgerald
912 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:34:24
I read in the Irish Independent this morning that we are lining up a £4M bid for Aiden McGeady. Apparently Martinez is a big fan. I really hope it's not true because no-one rates the guy over here, Irish international or not.
Mark Frere
913 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:33:43
If we are going to sign a player that is in his late 20s, I would rather buy Darren Bent, he is much more prolific and has a proven record in the PL. Yes, Bent would probably cost us a bit more but if we are going down that road I'd rather pay a couple more million.
Phil Sammon
915 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:47:11
I like McGeady but I can understand why people have their doubts. He is very quick and great at running with the ball, he just lacks an end product. I think we've seen recently with Coleman and Mirallas that pace can be an important weapon. It would also allow Mirallas to push inside which is another plus.
Kieran Fitzgerald
920 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:59:30
Mark Frere, Bent would get you goals. A decent second striker along side Jelavic, who has shown that he can also score goals.

Phil, no end product sums McGeady up.

Speaking of Irish players, what do people think of the idea of signing Stephen Ireland. I haven't seen it touted anywhere, it's just that I know that Villa are prepared to let him go. A serious gamble but you never know with some players.

Mark Frere
922 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:59:07
Phil Sammon
You like McGeady? The guy is dreadful, don't know which games you've been watching, he's not even as good as Shaun Wright Phillips, who is a handful without any end product.

We need players who are going to improve us and McGeady doesn't fall into that category.

Ross Edwards
923 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:03:12
I still remember that free kick he scored for Porto in the CL against Inter a few years ago, however if he thinks we'll be able to sustain his wages he can think again.
Ross Edwards
924 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:05:29
McGeady good? I don't rate him at all. Kieran, does Trapattoni pick him for Ireland?
Trevor Lynes
926 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:07:27
Keep away from players other lesser clubs than ourselves don't want.
Sign the players that they want to hold on to.... it's a no-brainer really!!
Phil Sammon
927 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:06:22
Mark

He has a hell of a lot more skill than SWP.

Like I said, he lacks end product. To be honest, I didn't realise he was 27 - I thought if he was 23-24 then we could get a player with a lot of potential. At 27 he has probably peaked and I agree that he wouldn't get in our starting eleven.

Phil Sammon
928 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:12:15
Actually, I rate him even higher now Ross has aired views to the contrary.
Mick Doherty
929 Posted 19/06/2013 at 20:54:51
Pace is all that McGeady has to offer, as Kieran mentioned, he's really dire at international level, seems to never know when to release the ball, runs it out of play, shoot's at the crowd in the top tier, has a permanent scowl of frustration on his mug, I'd avoid him for the kind of money that's been reported, and I'd reckon it took a fairly decent pay packet to get him to go to Russia so you could potentially be looking at some serious wage demands too. His stat's at Moscow look decent though, so it might just be that Trapatoni's neolithic football doesn't suit him. But again, for 4 million there simply has to be better on offer.
Andrew Ellams
933 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:22:45
Almeida is a tall target man who isn't really the numbed one goalscorer in a team. Wouldn't have put him as a Martinez type player
Ian Bennett
937 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:33:36
With Neymar having signed for Barca, I'd take Tello on loan for a season. Think he we would be class.
Ross Edwards
938 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:47:04
David Villa?
Mark Frere
942 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:50:21
Yes Ross, we can afford Villa's wages can't we? I actually think he will end up at one of Europe's big money clubs for one last big pay day
Andrew Ellams
943 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:55:39
I reckon we take a look at that Jo bloke who has just scored for Brazil again
Ross Edwards
944 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:55:13
Hang on Mark, weren't there rumours in January that Swansea were after him, and surely they have a smaller wage bill than we do.

If we are considering giving Baines a 100k contract surely we can afford a proven goalscorer like Villa.

Phil Sammon
947 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:59:02
On what planet are we offering Baines £100k p/w?

I love the guy but if those are his demands (which they arent) then he'd have to be sold.

Baines will be offered £75k like Fellaini. Villa will want £100k+. Not a chance.

James Stewart
948 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:01:41
Almeida is garbage I really hope we don't go there. Slow immobile player who can't really finish. We already have one of those don't need another.
Mark Frere
949 Posted 19/06/2013 at 21:58:58
Rumours and fact are two very different things Ross, I would love Villa here at our beloved club for lets say 70k a week and £3 million transfer fee. Just don't see it myself, although a lovely idea, I adore that player.

I thought we are offering Baines 65k a week not 100k?

Ross Edwards
950 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:03:16
Phil, you are Baines, right, you are offered 75k by Everton, then Moyes comes in and offers 90k a week. What do you do? The logic is to go to who is offering more money sadly.

If we offer Baines a 100k contract, that will put Moyes off signing him.

Anthony Flack
951 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:05:22
Couple of Villa fans were arguing that Bent would be great for Everton, knows where the net is for sure but could not get on with Lambert, running the channels and covering the right back..... Sounds familiar
Ross Edwards
954 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:06:22
Would you stay at a club who offer you 65k or go to Man U who will offer around 90?

It's plain, simple common sense. If we are to keep him, we need to offer him 100k, it has to be done.

James Stewart
955 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:08:13
Bent is a goalscorer pure and simple doesn't offer much else. I'd take him if the price was right or on a loan. He's better than what we have.
Phil Sammon
956 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:09:45
Then what if Man U offer £110k?

Our offer to Baines is that he is first choice, our set piece taker and a major part of how we play. If Baines wants to chase money then he will leave Everton, it's that simple. £75k is plenty and a limit to a club like us.

Mark Frere
957 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:09:26
Baines seems like a pretty level headed chap who seems to love Everton. He is already at our club and might not think the grass is greener on the other side.

With Villa, he will have to take a massive wage cut to play for a team in England who won't be in the CL or probably not challenging for PL title.

We never actually know a single players thoughts, all we can do is speculate

Ross Edwards
958 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:16:14
Well, if it is our limit, we should carry on being a selling club then Phil.
Ross Edwards
960 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:18:11
Mark, he may love the club but once you sniff money it goes out the window. That is the nature of modern football.
Phil Sammon
963 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:20:47
As opposed to bankrupting ourself Ross?

Does Baines come across as money motivated to you? I'm sure he wants to play where he enjoys it and the fans live him. There are many good footballing reasons for him to go to Man U, and many for him to stay put. We can't compete with Man U financially, I'm afraid that is a fact.

Ross Edwards
965 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:25:11
Phil, the mercenary nature of modern football means that everyone in football is money motivated. If Man U offered him 100k tomorrow he would take it immediately especially as he is nearly 30.
Mark Frere
966 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:20:37
Ross, yes your spot on there. Baines might be an exception to the rule though and don't forget he's contracted to Everton for another 2 years, so I think its a case of he needs to sign now or we are better off selling him .

I think they is a few players like our very own Jags, who appriciate what they've got and are'nt interested in being a mercenary

Shane Corcoran
967 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:24:48
Where's this stuff about McGeady only having pace coming from. He isn't overly quick but he has very quick feet from a standing position.
His final ball often lets him down as does his shooting.
I don't think he'd be good enough.
What we need is a Scandanavian, the less well known the better.
Mark Pierpoint
968 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:25:58
I think that saying that a move would be out of money is a bit unfair Ross. He is a professional and that must change the mindset. If we were talking about him going to Liverpool I would agree that it would be based on money but I worry that there would be few reasons to stay in reality if a Moyes-led Man Utd come calling.
Ross Edwards
969 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:29:45
If you were offered £100k tomorrow, Mark would you take it? Right, if Baines was offered that tomorrow he would take it.
Colin Glassar
971 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:31:11
Moneys no problem for us. I mean, apart from not having any, what's the problem?
Mark Frere
973 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:34:26
Ross Edwards
I don't know which Mark you are talking to? If I had the choice of playing for Everton for £70k a week or Man Utd for 100k a week, it would be Everton i'd choose because they are the club I love.
Matt Garen
976 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:38:28
I sincerely hope Baines stays but surely nobody would begrudge gained if utd came in for him and he went? He may be offered 75k to stay and 50k at Utd but he may choose to go, based purely on a professional level. All its, buts and maybes but at 27 if the opportunity arose to play champions league every season and challenge for and win trophies ( basically like RVP last season) then why shouldn't the lad? You never know he might actually be ambitious.

Good luck luck to him. You would have to be very warped in your thinking to blame him for the boards inability to attract players that could challenge (realistically) for honours. He should be in a team winning league titles.

Drew O'Neall
978 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:45:38
While we are playing football manager, I'd like to see us go in for Vydra from Udinese who was on loan at Watford last year. Very quick, strong and a great finisher, that's if we can't get Negredo.
Andy Crooks
979 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:49:05
I I had talent and Everton offered me £20k a week,ample to set one up for life,and United offered £200k a week.I'd stick with Everton. I'm an Evertonian, most players and our former coach are transient hired hands.That's the way it is.
Phil Sammon
980 Posted 19/06/2013 at 22:44:29
Ross

You're failing to grasp any of this aren't you.

Would Baines go play for Spartak Moscow for £100k p/w if we offered him £70k? I sincerely doubt he is that sort. If Baines wants to play for Man Utd then he will go there and he will accept probably around £80k and his decision will be based mainly on winning trophies and CL football.

Your argument seem to be that if we want to progress then we have to pay players more than we can afford. If we give the lad £100k then do you think it will stop at Baines? No, of course Fellaini and the club captain will want improved terms.

I want him to stay, desperately, but if he doesn't fancy £75k with us then he can either see out his contract or leave for a good fee and we find a young replacement.

Danny Broderick
982 Posted 19/06/2013 at 23:09:38
Ross Edwards is from the Bill Kenwright school of economics. Paying your left back £100k a week?! I don't care how good he is, we can't afford that. We shouldn't even be paying Fellaini £75k a week in my book.

I haven't got a problem with anyone being sold, as long as that money is reinvested in the team. Baines in particular is possibly the best player in the world in his position – I don't say that lightly. If he wanted to go to Man U, for example, I wouldn't begrudge him after he has given us several years excellent service. But the price would have to be right – £25 million for starters. I wouldn't be too bothered if Fellaini went for £23 million either. But the money would have to be spent on 5 or 6 excellent players to re-shape the team.

The key to our long term future – in the absence of a strategy from the board – is to trade in your assets at the right time and consistently reinvesting in younger talent that will improve and go up in value. Keep the wage bill under control as well, and we might be able to see off the sabotage inflicted by Kenwright, Elstone and Co!

Robin Cannon
983 Posted 19/06/2013 at 23:24:57
@Andy (979) - Easy to say in theory. But even then, I couldn't see the same. If I were a pro footballer of that level and someone offered my 10x (or even double) my salary, with a new opportunity for professional development, the chance to experience a different culture (if we were talking about a foreign team) and maximize the financial security of myself and my family...well...I may be an Evertonian, but there's more to life than just that.
Mike Corcoran
997 Posted 19/06/2013 at 23:44:29
I think Baines like Jagielka is a level headed guy who puts a good workplace above cash and would consider his own well being first.

A couple of years ago Jags was interviewed whilst on England duty and arsecole was being juvenile from the balcony above. The look Jags gave him summed it up. I think they both prefer to be in a wankerfree zone.

For that reason I think our Victorian gentleman time traveller is staying put. I also don't think anyone will come in for the 'fro either as whilst good enough for us, he's just not going to fit at the top 4.

James Flynn
998 Posted 19/06/2013 at 23:41:13
The only way Baines is staying is if his current contract is torn up now and the Club boosts his wages into the £80-90k range. He's earned the increase.
Mike Corcoran
999 Posted 20/06/2013 at 00:03:20
I think his interest in football does not stretch beyond training and match day. He's a shy fella who does not like the immature spit roasters who populate other clubs.

I could earn more money in another job but where I am suits my family and life balance. It isn't all about cash, especially when you've got more coming in than you've got going out ( to subvert the advert) like our friend, Leighton the extra from Zulu

Harold Matthews
002 Posted 20/06/2013 at 00:08:32
Agreed Danny. The wage bill must be drastically reduced if we are to avoid another January window fiasco where we couldn't even bring in a loan signing.

Personally, I wouldn't give anyone £65k a week, no matter who they are. We are not a rich club but, as Mr Rathbone continually preaches, it is possible to build a top side out of players on realistic wages.

Robert Lewandowski, the brilliant Dortmund No 9 is on £30k a week. The world is full of decent players on even less. Our scouts have to find them. The mercenaries in our squad are beginning to irritate me.

Phil Davies
004 Posted 20/06/2013 at 00:47:54
Getting slightly off the topic of money, Keisuke Honda looks like a great player going for free this summer, definitely worth a shout.
Andy Crooks
007 Posted 20/06/2013 at 00:53:55
Robin, #983, what you say is hard to argue with but I'll give it a go:

It seems to me that on my meagre salary, and I mean fucking meagre, I get along okay. I didn't get to see Everton last season for financial reasons but I might this year. So, ... getting to see Everton will be a nice luxury. Now, somehow, I can get FIFTY times my annual salary, not to help me watch Everton, but to fucking actually play for them. To BE PAID TO RUN OUT TO Z CARS.!!

Robin, personal development and experiencing foreign culture would be high on my list if I were a trainee management consultant, marketing, outsourcing, HR team building broker. We're talking about playing for Everton. Now who wouldn't take that?

Mike Green
013 Posted 20/06/2013 at 06:17:14
It's an interesting one Andy and personally I think players, like us all, take lots of factors into account and pay is the top one, just as pay is the top one for virtually everyone else.

I'm very passionate about the firm I work for and would leave the industry before I'd would work for 90% of the competition, no matter the money, but there are exceptions.

I'm sure a player will be happy to accept lower wages than what are on offer if he is playing at the level he wants to, his family are settled, he fits in with the club, maybe even is a fan etc but if all these things are equal and someone offers him a better deal, and probably better lifestyle etc then why not move?

No one calls players mercenaries when a new manager comes and they are shipped out to the highest bidder, it rubs both ways. You can't ask people to be loyal if they don't get loyalty back.

Jon Withey
022 Posted 20/06/2013 at 07:52:56
According to the Sun : New Everton manager Roberto Martinez wants to sign Birmingham winger Nathan Redmond, 19, in a £3m move.

Sounds reasonable enough.

Al Philby
023 Posted 20/06/2013 at 08:07:45
Nathan Redmond would be an excellent signing and £3m would be a real bargain. This guy is the new Theo Walcott.
Roberto Birquet
024 Posted 20/06/2013 at 08:12:24
Phil956
spot on!

We offer to make him top/joint top paid player, and then he either wantsa us or not.

The type of man he is and his evident love of the club means we have a chance. If he thinks however we ain't ever gonna make CL, thn he'll probably be off. And if it's all about money, we will never match Man U, no matter what. Simples!

I expect us to lose one of Baines/Felli, but if we lose both, we're gonna struggle. Lose one and replace him with a £10 million player, and bring in a proper striker, we'll compete again. Keep both and get a good striker, and it's (chaleenging for 4th) all down to whether Martinez was a mistake or not.

Barry Rathbone
028 Posted 20/06/2013 at 09:18:30
Talking about potential wingers and forwards instead of centre halves ...... it's gonna take some getting used to.

Phil Sammon
029 Posted 20/06/2013 at 08:04:24
I'd take that Jon
Ray Roche
030 Posted 20/06/2013 at 09:27:17
There's plenty of comments on here about Baines playing for £75k a week at EFC or £100k a week at Man Utd. Once a player, or a person, has sufficient money, and I would think to the average, intelligent person, earning £75k a week is probably more than you'd dreamt of in your wildest dreams during your youth, then an extra £10k, or £20k a week probably wouldn't make that much difference. Unless you're a spectacularly mercenary twat from some banana republic or Eastern European background where life may be cheap and money is worshipped, or some dickhead who drives a camouflaged Bentley.

Enough money is enough money. You can only drive one car at a time, live in one house at a time, and as long as your family are safe and happy and healthy you probably wouldn't move for money, but you might move for the chance of winning a trophy or two. I imagine that would be the only reason Baines would go.

Sam Hoare
033 Posted 20/06/2013 at 10:05:36
No to Almeida but yes to to Redmond. He didn't have his best season last season but he's very young at excellent value I think if available at the £2-3m quoted.
Lee Mandaracas
035 Posted 20/06/2013 at 10:00:02
Danny Broderick (982) has got it spot on. I can't believe Ross Edwards' blanket judgement of every person on the planet as being as mercenary as he evidently is (969 being the most recent of his oft-repeated statement).

To shatter your illusion that everyone is driven by money - especially in the football world - can I just say one person's name? Mikel Arteta. He was on £75k per week with us and left to Arsenal for £65k per week.

It is well known that Baines is a similarly decent, honest and very down to earth bloke so I have no doubt in my mind that going up to an offensive £100k per week, thus using another two good players' salaries in the increase alone in an attempt to keep him with us would be utterly preposterous.

Case closed!

Lee Mandaracas
036 Posted 20/06/2013 at 10:24:37
By the way, wasn't this thread about Hugo Almeida.....? Pretty ambivalent so nope, I've got nothing to offer then!
Mike Allison
041 Posted 20/06/2013 at 11:36:15
I've just seen that Redmond link. I saw ten minutes of him for England u-21 and immediately looked him up as he stood out even in that short space of time. Not exactly in depth research I know but I'd be very pleased if we did sign him.
Ross Edwards
048 Posted 20/06/2013 at 12:54:13
No Lee, the case isn't closed. Everyone in the modern game is driven by money, it is a simple fact of life.

When our precious little Bainesy gets a sniff of CL football with Man Utd, and £100k a week in his pocket, he will take it and run.

Deal with it.

Ray Roche
060 Posted 20/06/2013 at 13:41:03
Ross.

Your arrogance is staggering. You think you can speak for everyone connected with football? Don't judge people who you don't know by your own yard stick. Maybe YOU are driven by money but I'm sure there are other decent people in every walk of life, including football, who place happiness, contentment and peace of mind over money.
Deal with it.

Andrew Ellams
061 Posted 20/06/2013 at 13:48:33
I don't think Baines will leave this summer, in fact I'm not totally convinced anybody will including Heitinga and Fellaini. Only problem that leaves us with is funding new recruits. Groundhog day it is then
Brian Denton
063 Posted 20/06/2013 at 14:22:04
Matt le Tissier. Deal with it. Stuart Pearce. Deal with it. There are some - probably very few in number - to whom money isn't everything. Let's hope Leighton is cut from the same cloth !
Ray Roche
064 Posted 20/06/2013 at 14:26:19
Brian, you're right, there are many top players with one club, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Carragher, Gerrard, Hibbert....and historically there are many more. And probably equally as many who were sold when they would no doubt have preferred to stay at their club.
Chris Ashton
066 Posted 20/06/2013 at 14:47:57
Has anyone else thought of this? All the players we are supposedly after, including our own players, are either on holiday or with their national team and our manager is in Brazil. Here is a thought, maybe none of these links are true and they are there to fill the papers up during the dead season.

I ask you, who was the last player to be linked with us in the media and then turn up at the club? By linked I mean not report it a week before they sign. The one thing that this club has got right over the past 10 years is that no-one knows who we are signing until they are ready to go to Finch Farm.

Lee Mandaracas
069 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:10:31
Ross (048) it has to be said that Ray (060) is absolutely spot on. How arrogant and deluded can you be? You have the audacity to tar everyone with the same brush (yet again) in response to my post which proved beyond doubt that you are wrong. All of this prior to a catalogue of subsequent examples from others but you will still demand that we all listen to your delusions.

Nobody has come in for Baines (yet), let alone offered him £100k per week and whether he wants to stay or not would probably be irrelevant if the price was right for the board anyway.

Offering him £100k per week to stay right now is just lunacy of the highest order and the type that has got us into this mess in the first place. You haven't been advising the board on business practises this last decade plus by any chance have you?

Mike Rourke
070 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:18:45
It is a well known fact that when football players aren't engaged in roasting sessions at a 5 star hotels they are busy comparing paychecks.

This is ALL they do.

Someone like Wayne Rooney goes swinging his massive one all over town whereas Bainsey has a tiny little tager of a wage slip that he has to hide away from his peers when he goes on international duty.

The question is, does size matter to Bainesy?

Phil Sammon
071 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:20:07
Ross

I like how you've slipped in 'Champions League Football' with your £100k p/w.

Everybody else has argued that if Baines did leave for Man Utd it will be to further his career with trophies and Champions League football. Everybody accepts that.

You argued that footballers were solely motivated by money - despite numerous examples to the contrary.

So, just to shut you up:

Man Utd offer Baines £80k
Everton offer him £75k
Spartak Moscow offer him £120k

Where does Baines go?

I guarantee it's not Moscow.

Andrew Ellams
072 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:24:14
I have never seen so many people trying to defend the moral values of professional footballers.

Whilst I don't for one minute think Baines can be categorised with the Ashley Coles and the like he his human and as a professional sportsman probably keen to improve his lot whether that be medals or pounds who knows.

In saying that, I still don't think he will leave, but then I never thought Moyes would actually get the Utd job.

Shane Corcoran
073 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:44:49
I just jumped in to wonder out loud (in type) why people are taking Ross seriously.
You're not being serious Ross, are you? Although I must say that your posts at least now slightly resemble those of a sane person.
Ray Roche
074 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:37:44
Andrew Ellams@072

"I have never seen so many people trying to defend the moral values of professional footballers."
Andrew, you are in danger of joining Ross in lumping everyone from a particular section of society into the same boat. Whilst I wouldn't dream of attempting to defend the likes of Ashley Cole, John Terry or DJ thumping Gerrard , I think that there are countless basically decent, although arguably thick, players (if we're going to stereotype players let's do it properly). Not everyone is a money grabbing mercenary. I wasn't.

Then again, I was crap.

Andrew Ellams
075 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:48:06
Not at all Ray, I agree with everything people on here are saying particularly about Baines and Jagielka and I would probably include the likes of Osman and Tim Cahill into that.

It's just that you don't see many people defend footballers for a subject like money in this day and age, just pointing out the irony. As I have stated earlier in the thread and in previous I think Leighton Baines is happy with his lot at Everton and could well finish his career at the club.

Although I do think it's tough to compare players in this situation to Giggs, Scholes and Neville who sort of started at the top and of course Baines has jumped ship once before when a better opportunity came calling.

Ged Simpson
077 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:48:49
Don't be silly Shane - of course not
Ray Roche
078 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:01:15
Sorry, Andrew, I have clearly got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Whether or not Baines was "jumping ship" for more money or to join his "boyhood club", if you believe some accounts, is open to debate. Good call on Osman and Cahill, though.
Eugene Ruane
080 Posted 20/06/2013 at 15:40:32
My instinct re footballers is to just fly in and agree with any opinion along the lines they're "greedy, thick, out of touch, overrated, overpaid.." etc.

However a couple of years ago, I was having a pint with a mate and he was talking about his son who is now around 14 and has, since he was about 9, been involved at kid level with City, Blackburn, Everton and Liverpool.

(the lad is a decent little player but at that age, who the fuck knows)

Anyway, my mate's insight was interesting because it made me think why so many players appear to be these dead-eyed, seemingly unthinking, me-me-me types.

And here's the/a reason.

Basically, once these kids become involved with a club, all they see is venal dog-eat-dog, step-on-someone-to-get-what-you-want, horrible bastards behaving horribly.

My mate described the kid's 'trainers' at all these club's as follows.

"Honest, they're all fucking bastards, they don't give two fucks about the kids y'know" adding "if they get one kid out of it, they're made up and just fuck the rest off, they don't give a shite if the kids are crying or any of that"

(I know, he's not as 'flowery' as I am).

It did make me think though that maybe a lot of our players are the way they are (greedy, thick, out of touch, overrated, overpaid etc) because, that's all they've ever seen.

Monkey see monkey do type..stuff.

Mark Stone
082 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:08:49
"It's plain, simple common sense. If we are to keep him, we need to offer him 100k, it has to be done."

Risdale, 2001

Ray Roche
083 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:10:46
Interesting comments, Eugene, but one which flies in the face of the old adage "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man". A boy will still be with his parents/family more than any coach and, surely, that will have a more profound effect on the lad's personality and future "being"?
Phil Walling
086 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:15:24
I do love all these defenders of Bainsey`s morality-or whatever it is- when nobody ,but nobody,can know whether he`s being put to the test!
It`s as though they think he reads this and will take any notice of them.
God save us from those who preach morality as though they have every right to do so.
Ray Roche
089 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:28:26
Phil, do you mean to tell us that Baines doesn't read this? Have we been wasting our time?
Actually, I think it's as much a case of people being fed up with some of Ross Edwards drivel (again) as holding up Baines as a shining light in an age of perennial darkness. Looking back, you've had a bit of a pop at Ross yourself....
Eugene Ruane
091 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:22:33
Ray (083) - The old adage - 'Give me a child until he is seven...' is usually attributed to the Jesuits. Possibly to St. Ignatius of Loyola, founder of the Society of Jesus (Jesuits) or St. Francis Xavier, the first missionary to India who assisted Ignatius in the formation of the Jesuits.

Well all I can tell you, as someone educated by Jesuits, is it's a neat little saying but had absolutely no effect on me and/or most of those I went to school with.

In me they had a catholic, they wanted to make a better catholic, but being wild-eyed sadists, they simply ended up producing a confirmed atheist.

I'm not disputing our parents have an influence, of course they do, but I personally think their input is overrated (often BY parents) and believe our biggest influence, certainly between 10 and 25 is whoever the coolest 'kids' are, or whoever can (apologies to Yewtree victims) dangle the biggest and most attractive carrot.

Lee Mandaracas
092 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:29:40
Phil (086) this has distorted into a discussion about Baines' honour, or lack thereof depending upon your stance. However I think most (certainly I) were more annoyed with Ross' insistence that all footballers were utterly mercenary, one-dimensional and devoid of any layers to their character. That is the thing that I think most defend Baines on - innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Oh, and the small matter of his laughable notion that we should simply pay Baines £100k a week as money is merely a figment of our collective imagination so why aren't we more free with it? That point well addressed by Mark Stone (082)

As you rightly (albeit dramatically) say though, and as was said earlier in this thread, nobody is offering Baines that money so far as we know, which makes this is all hypothetical and long may it stay that way.

Ray Roche
095 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:40:48
Eugene,
"I'm not disputing our parents have an influence, of course they do, but I personally think their input is overrated (often BY parents)" I wish my parents were still around so that I could point that out to them!
I do, however, still think that they had the biggest effect on me, and I'm pretty sure my siblings would agree with that, otherwise I might have ended up a red.
But then again, we weren't brought up by Jesuits. I was, though, briefly a member of a para-military organisation who, I'm happy to say, had no influence on my adulthood.
The Cubs.
Eugene Ruane
097 Posted 20/06/2013 at 16:51:57
Ray (095) - Cubs? Me too, the 18th Fairfield.

Come to think of it, there might be a pattern emerging, something I've never noticed about myself before.

The Cubs, Jesuits, Everton, country music - it's all about suffering.

It's like Ray Winston says to Mick Ford in Scum - "You muss faaaackin' laav it!"

Oo-er, maybe I do!

Phil Bellis
099 Posted 20/06/2013 at 17:03:39
Spot on Eugene

It was, indeed, Frankie Xavier wot said that
The SJs have a lot to answer for, if me and thee are typical products of their "educational ethos"
Feckers the lot of them: "Torquemada was a wimp"

Stuart O'Malley
100 Posted 20/06/2013 at 17:06:21
Did'nt Baines turn down Bayer a couple of seasons ago? Surely the would have been offering a bigger wedge than us. Also I remember reading a quote supposedly fro Jags saying that he would'nt move just for a bigger wage packet, as what he is on is more than enough. I just think these two lads are cut from good cloth. Time will tell if I am right I suppose.
Stuart O'Malley
101 Posted 20/06/2013 at 17:13:58
Bayern*
Ray Roche
103 Posted 20/06/2013 at 17:21:02
"It's all about suffering....." how bloody true. "My dogs just left 'an ma wife's just died"...country music, eh?
Wayne Smyth
105 Posted 20/06/2013 at 17:36:11
Just reading through the comments and I'm constantly surprised at the utter tripe that some people think makes sense.

Offer baines 100k to prevent him going to Utd? Really?

Its not so much the idiocy of thinking we should pay a player more than we can afford. But you combine that with the complete lack of logic that assumes that we can out-bid Utd for a player they might want.

That requires some seriously powerful drugs.

Wayne Smyth
107 Posted 20/06/2013 at 17:50:17
Eugene, I don't wish to appear heartless, but what you describe regarding the trainers doesn't on the face of it seem all that bad. Our academy is not(or should not) be there to make these footballers the best they can be. I think they're there to produce top quality athletes capable of producing in the premier league.

If our academy churns out 100 championship level players but no-one of the quality to get into our first team, it's failed miserably. Success is measured by how many players we can either use in the first team, or sell on for cash.

If kids are left in tears or discarded by the academy because they're not good enough then welcome to the real world.

That said, I'd wager that many kids are rejected when they absolutely do have the talent, but perhaps don't have the physical or other attributes deemed as necessary by the coaches.....and that would all be very good, except that I reckon that our coaching and academies probably focus on the wrong set of qualities. Places like La Masia or De Toekomst at Ajax probably look for different attributes than our own.

Gavin Ramejkis
109 Posted 20/06/2013 at 18:16:32
McGeady's finishing is gash he's a modern day Bakayoko - headless chicken after he's ran so far up the pitch. For half decent money you could get Jelle Vossen
Colin Glassar
112 Posted 20/06/2013 at 18:43:05
I don't think Baines will go to man u as I think ginger will be out of a job by Xmas. I can just see man u being about 7th in December and the dour one getting the boot.

P.S. I hope we get that Redmond kid. He looked really good playing for the U21's last week

Mark Frere
117 Posted 20/06/2013 at 18:42:21
Its a big mistake for anyone to tar Baines with the same brush as so many mercenary footballer, but we've got to admit the vast majority of footballers are Mercenaries, its no coincidence that all the teams across europe who pay the biggest wages are the most successful sides.

Why do we suspect so many top players sign for Chelsea and Man City? Its not because they have a great history for being a famous club who dominates the English top flight or Europe.

Billionaire owners have recently bought PSG and Monaco. PSG are now dominating french football and got to the last 8 of the CL. Monaco will soon be involved in a 2 horse race for the French domestic title.

Its a sad fact of modern day football, the teams with the biggest wage bill, will always be the most successful sides

Eugene Ruane
128 Posted 20/06/2013 at 18:24:04
Wayne (107) - Firstly, I feel the comments "Eugene, I don't wish to appear heartless" and "If kids are left in tears or discarded by the academy because they're not good enough then welcome to the real world" are a little.um..inconsistent.

Secondly, we're not talking about Royal Marines, we're talking about children and I don't believe that in the 'real world' (outside of football and Dickens' London) children between 9 and 14 are (generally) used/abused this way.

However, if you are right (and you might be, I'm just giving my opinion and passing on what someone with first-hand experience told me) it isn't really the point I was making.

The point was the behaviour towards the kids (acceptable or not) If accurate, WOULD help explain why wide-eyed 9 year old boys become dead-eyed, self-centered, self-serving, greedy (etc etc) 25 year-olds.

I actually think your last paragraph is spot-on, particularly focusing on the wrong qualities in our coaching compared to the work done in other countries.

And there is actually proof (of a sort) to back this up.

To know that 'foreign' coaching makes more sense, you only have to look at results at the opposite end of the scale - full international teams.

We're shite, loads of them are better.

Ross Edwards
135 Posted 20/06/2013 at 19:39:37
Phil, Why did so many top players like Eto'o, Hulk, Witsel all go to Russia? The answer is simple. MONEY.

So in your point to shut me up, the reason that Russia, particularly Anzhi and Zenit is attractive for top players is simple. They get offered a lot of cash. So, you mentioned Spartak as an example, if they offered Baines that amount you cited, £120k, Europe every year he would seriously consider it.

Do you think that Eto'o, Hulk and Witsel went to Russia for footballing reasons? Of course not.

By the way Ray it isn't arrogance. Good night everyone.

Alan Smith
219 Posted 21/06/2013 at 11:11:16
Do Man U need, or want Bains? Probably not when they have two world class left backs already.

Would Moyes spunk half his transfer kitty on a left back, when he needs centre mids?

Our wage bill is 60 odd million. We Can only name a 25 squad for prem lque. I would give Bains and Fellaini £90 a week each, beg them to stay and promise to bring a striker a winger in on same money.....that's £20m in wages a year on 4 top players.

Jags will earn good money Hieghtinga will be gone, and the rest will be on £40k or less. The likes of Barkley will be on less than 20

Therefore we've kept the wage bill below th £65m mark and done everything possible to keep our 2 best players and bring 2 good ones in

If they decide to leave well, then it's up to them, not our fault.

My fear is arsenal. They need a left back and they need a new viera. Worse still they should be our target(4th). If we are not seriously challenging for fourth, then what is the point if going the game. It's the next step we need to take.

Alan Smith
223 Posted 21/06/2013 at 11:43:05
Make the best offer you possibly can to your best players. Then they can weigh that up against any offer they might get from other sides!

Taking many pts into account(money, trophy chances, Europe, leaque, location) the player WILL and should do what's best for himself and fambo.

We just need to remind them how important they are to us and make them feel wanted.

Alan Smith
235 Posted 21/06/2013 at 12:45:04
No one can argue that pay isn't the biggest factor. It definitely is.

However, this can be overcome by other factors, such as playing champ lque, getting more recognition, being at a club you love, or you and fambo is settled in area. Plus loads of other factors. As long as your still getting paid well

Everyone's different, some will sit on bench for big pay others won't. But no one takes big pay cuts.

The pay has to be good, in fact brilliant, then all other things get weighed up too.

Thought that was obvious. IMHO you are both correct to a degree

Arteta for eg took what? A drop from 75k to 65-70? But got champs lqu footy and the chance to play in front of 60,000 every week, hoping the international manager may notice him more. Also how much extra sponsorship will he earn at arsenal?

It was definitely a footballing decision but one that did cost much. If we offered 120k plus the captaincy would that have changed his mind?

Bains will go to Man U if its offered. He has to for footballing reasons. But if they offer him 70 and we offer him 100 made him skipper, reminded him about Pienaars move and martinez told him we are going to get fourth this year, he could be persuaded otherwise.

Man U don't want him anyway

Alan Smith
236 Posted 21/06/2013 at 13:02:16
Defn football decision that did NOT cost much that was supposed to read
Jim Knightley
238 Posted 21/06/2013 at 12:48:59
Baines would go to United for titles..not an extra 20-30,000 a week. If he was motivated by money, he could have demanded a move when the season ended. He has been the best left back in this league over the last two seasons, and his attacking prowess, backed up by statistics, is easy to see. Honestly, I don't think Baines would try to push through a move; I don't see it as part of his character. If we get an offer...and I'm not sure we will, it will be up to Everton to sell. But the reality is that Baines is more important to us than he would be to United. He is a crucial defensive, and attacking cog, and I do not see us parting with him for less than 17/18million. Would United pay that for a 28 year old left back, especially after Evra had a surprisingly impressive season? No they wouldn't. And going tens of thousands beyond our highest wage Ross, is sheer idiocy. We are in a fragile position financially...closer to a Leeds than an Arsenal, and cannot go setting dangerous wage precedents.

I'd also like David Villa in our team. And Isco and Cavani too. But we are dealing in reality...there is no way Villa would move to a team outside of the Champions League, and we could not fund his wages. I expect Barca will keep him for striking backup, unless they get a top offer from the one of the big clubs. But, he still has another season or two at the top of the game imo.

And with respect to Arsenal Alan...I don't want to be pessimistic, but I think they will improve, for the first time in some time, this summer. I think the board needed to support our chances for top four at Xmas...and we've missed the boat now. Arsenal's form in the last six months was not far off title winners...and if Higuain comes in, as expected, as I see it, the only real weak spots are at right back, and in goal for them. They've also the best financial model in this league, and will beable to fund title assaults soon enough imo. Chelski under Mourinho also look far more likely to challenge for the title, than miss out on top four. Unfortunately, I think we will be fighting for 5th to 7th again, with our far more wealthy neighbours and Gareth Bale.

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