Everton were without John Stones for this evening's Round of 16 Europa League game against Dynamo Kyiv. Antolin Alcaraz came in for the defender who had a virus and was joined in the starting XI by Ross Barkley and Kevin Mirallas.

Romelu Lukaku led the line ahead of Steven Naismith while Gareth Barry and James McCarthy formed the central midfield axis. Darron Gibson was on the bench alongside Muhamed Besic, Arouna Kone and Christian Atsu.

Howard needed to be alert in the early minutes to bat away an aggressive shot as the visitor's pace looked to unsettle the home side. Kyiv looked to have done their homework, pressing the Blues and closing down any available space.

Everton won the first corner in the 7th minute but it was cleared with ease. But it was from a corner at the other in the 14th minute that stunned the Blues, a simple corner from Yarmolenko clipped inside Howard's near post by Gusev as he characteristically flapped at the ball, and Everton were catastrophically an away goal down before the quarter-hour mark.

With a massive mountain to climb against a side showing zero intimidation, the pattern of the game became all too familiar, with slow passing across the back and zero penetration going forward as they were shockingly incapable of retaining possession, Jagielka even resorting to hoofball but Lukaku was called for a foul.

Sustained passing outside of the Kyiv area led to a lost ball when it was played in to Naismith, and the visitors were bounding up the field with pace, in complete contrast to the crablike lack of forward progress when Everton regained possession. One long ball did see Lukaku run onto it but his cross to Barkley was intercepted.

Sydorchuk tried a long-distance shot that Howard parried from a corner that was cleared quickly to Lukaku who had a glorious chance when he dispossessed the keeper well outside his area, but it was too much for Lukaku to get his long-range punt at the open goal anything like on target. At the other end, a pathetic Barry backpass straight to the lurking Bezua could so easily have been the second goal.

A free-kick within striking distance saw Lukaku curl one jthat needed a clip over the bar from the keeper and a couple of better chances cem from the corner, Jagielka's powerful header headed off teh line at the fgar post befre Alcaraz's shot was deflected over.

Better strength from Lukaku forced the ball through to Naismith who kept himself onside to slide the ball home, and put a very different complexion on the nervous Goodison crowd, who rallied behind the better effort and pace shown for the goal.

Everton should have scored again when Mirallas beat Shovskovskiy to the ball and seemed to have space and time but could not find Lukaku to finish with his cross.

Kyiv came out on the front foot after the break, but Everton responded with some good pressing of their own, a very long-range Alacarz shot forcing a save from Shovskovskiy, who under pressure. A brilliant curling corner from Garbutt, was too clever for everyone and went right through the danger area.

Mirallas was fouled out wide right and Garbutt took the set-piece, curved in superbly to the far post where Shovskovskiy had to punch it away. From the second corner, Naismith had a free header but made a mess of it as Everton made a strong start to the second half.

Everton had to resist some pressure after Barry fouled near the Everton bye-line but were in attack mode soon after, with Kone coming on to replace Mirallas. Naismith set up Barry but his first-time shot was wide.

Everton looked to work chances but they were hard to coke by as clock ticked away, Lukaku and Naismith seemingly trying to set eachother up. Osman replaced Barkley with 16 mins left. Garbutt got down to the corner flag but his cross was overhit,

The game seemed to have reached a plateau for a long period in the second half until Everton got very lucky on 82 mins, Osman's cross hitting Danilo Silva's arm. Lukaku converted a less-than convincing penalty to give Everton a vital lead as they came back from that early goal.

Lukaku did well to cross in from wide right and Osman almost set up Naismith with a glancing header. Mbokani got a yellow for clattering McCarthy near the end.

Scorers: Naysmith (39'); Gusev (14')

Everton: Howard, Garbutt, Jagielka {c}, Alcaraz, Coleman, McCarthy, Barry, Mirallas, (64' Kone), Barkley (74' Osman), Naismith, Lukaku.

Subs: Robles, Gibson, Besic, Atsu, Browning.

Dynamo Kyiv: Shovskovskiy, Danilo Silva, Veloso, Antunes, Dragovic, Yarmolenko, Sydorchuk, Gusev (76' Kravets), Vida (85' Chumak), Buyalskiy (67' Garmash), Mbokani [Y:89'].

Subs not Used: Rybka, Khacheridi, Kalitvintsev, Teodorczyk.

Referee: Carlos Velasco (Esp)

Share this article



Reader Comments (186)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Trevor Lynes
1 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:12:24
Hope that Stones is being kept for Sunday. I would prefer Distin to Alcaraz who I do not rate.

Our squad is looking pretty threadbare at present and needs a drastic re-structuring. I cannot see any outlet down the left side at all.

Lee Courtliff
2 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:14:26
Why are we playing Barkley or Naismith out wide again? It doesnÂ’t work.

Fuck it, come on Blues. CanÂ’t wait for this match.

Brian Hennessy
3 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:15:55
Another unbalanced mess up of a team selection by Martinez.

Apart from the obvious mistake picking Howard, Barry is picked ahead of Gibson, why?

Naismith and Barkley in the same team never works.

Only hope is if Kyiv are half as bad as Young Boys were.

Dave Lynch
4 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:21:19
If Kyiv have done their homework this could be a difficult night.

Barry ffs! Gibson is our most creative midfielder and can at least pass the ball forward.

Another mishmash of a midfield and whereÂ’s Atsu? We need some pace.

John Moore
5 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:19:06
Martinez has played this formation a dozen times this season and it clearly doesnÂ’t work well. When will he learn to play with width on both flanks, have some balance for once?

And IÂ’ve been saying all season that I donÂ’t see the need for 2 defensive midfielders at home, McCarthy does nothing for me, itÂ’s easy stopping others from playing but thatÂ’s not enough for me.

And by the way... Naismith is SHITE.

Iain Love
6 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:34:29
Have to agree with the other posters, don't like this set up at all, Robles should be in and Barkley and Naismith don't work.

At least the bench looks decent.

Phil Sammon
7 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:33:21
I honestly can't recall a manager so set in his ways. His 'philosophy' is one thing...but why does he keep playing players who have repeatedly proven not to be effective in the same positions?

I could never hope for an Everton defeat...but I want this man out so badly. And we all thought Moyes was ridged...

Gerard Carey
8 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:37:27
Groundhog day!!!, Barkley and Naismith don't work. Our manager has not learned anything.
Christy Ring
9 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:27:53
Martinez sticks to a team with no shape, no pace still playing players out of position and after watching Alcaraz make mistake after mistake. What has he got that Browning hasnÂ’t? It tells me he wonÂ’t listen and take advice which is a huge worry not for tonight but for our Premier League survival.
Michael Kenrick
10 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:36:01
Trevor it looks like Stones is out with a virus.

Yes, I would prefer Distin. Strange that he was not selected after playing for the U-21s the other week. Is he really past it now or just on Martinez's shit-list? But has Alcaraz been all that bad?

You're always saying the squad is threadbare but we actually have quite a lot of players for Martinez to chose from; the problem for me is those players are not playing anywhere near the level that they can.

I can't understand fretting about 'restructuring' in the middle of the season — it's the manager's job to make the best use of the players he has now, and for them to perform when selected.

And what's wrong with Luke Garbutt as our outlet down the left? With Kevin "Champions League" Mirallas in front of him, what more could you ask for? Other than a gut-busting 90 mins of effort for the team!

Brian Hennessy
11 Posted 12/03/2015 at 19:47:53
I don't normally feel this angry until AFTER we have played.

Martinez is quite simply useless, stuborn and I can't wait to see the back of him.

Stephen Brown
13 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:02:31
We are so shapeless. No width at all
Paul Carsley
14 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:24:25
Same rubbish week in, week out. So depressing
Matthew Svatos
15 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:24:40
'Howard beaten at his near post' seems to be a commentators catch phrase...
Terry Murphy
16 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:27:27
Does this mean Howard is now our cup keeper – same as Robles was last season – god I hope so.
Alex Parr
17 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:26:35
Well these lot have clearly done their homework and know how to stop us playing. Maybe Rebrov is a footballing genius, or maybe he spoke to my 7-year-old cousin who also knows we have one style, one plan and sweet FA else.

I couldn't make it to Goodison tonight, I'm tempted to switch the bastard TV off now. Soul-destroying watching this groundhog day shit.

Paul Carsley
18 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:29:29
At least my Chicken Kiev tonight was tasty.....
Alex Parr
19 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:29:39
Commentators just saw a guy with his hands over his mouth, Tyldesley says "come on surely it's not that bad yet", Townsend then says "every ball that goes sideways or backwards is met with dismay and puts pressure on the players". All paraphrased but the point speaks volumes.

The fans KNOW we can't hold a lead pr come back from going down. And this passing back to the goalie from the edge of their box bullshit DOES NOT WORK.

Dan Nulty
20 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:33:05
If you play a possession-based game you need at least two in the middle and two wide men that can beat players to open defences up. Only Barkley can do that and he is being frozen out of the game.

Barry is a waste of space and Alcaraz is absolutely terrible. We are so slow, it is frightening. Unless we speed up our play, we can only hope we score from a set-piece

Neil Roberts
21 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:34:39
Absolutely terrible to watch. I can't believe how shite we are.
John Maddock
22 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:39:53
We need to get Alcaraz off asap... he is going to cost us this tie, Absolutely awful performance.
Ernie Baywood
23 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:40:07
Right now, this is horrible to watch. We're shite and the crowd have the reached the end of their tether.

This could get really nasty.

Steven Telford
24 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:36:39
What the fuck is the shite that we are being forced to suffer?

Sideways, backwards Sunday league giveaways. Has Martinez no shame?

Dan Nulty
25 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:43:42
Lukaku beats a man and we open them up. We have to attack.
Pete Ellingham
26 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:45:06
Brilliant play by Lukaku!!!!
Alex Parr
27 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:45:18
Ball played in front of Rom for him to fight for and players bounce off him. Great goal!
Roger Helm
28 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:48:59
They had a goalline clearance because a defender was on the near post for a corner. Why can't Martinez organise a simple thing like that? I was doing that in schoolboy football.
Steven Telford
29 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:51:00
We should have capitalized once more on their keeper's clownish antics.

Alcaraz is a big concern.

Pete Ellingham
30 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:50:30
What a difference when we pick up the tempo. They will not be able to handle us if we keep attacking! We can't win by slowly passing the ball around, it is too easy to defend against. If we pick up the 2nd half where we left off we will win!.
Andy Crooks
31 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:52:10
That opening half hour was truly abysmal, in fact an embarrassment on national TV. Lukaku, the only player whose performance wasn't shameful, sets up a goal and then we look okay. What on earth is happening at our club?
Brian Hennessy
32 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:51:37
Proud as hell of the fans at Goodison giving these players the kick up the arse they deserve tonight.

The screaming at Barry to stop going backwards was priceless.

The first 45 minutes is just further proof that we have some very good players, but they are forced into a system that they or the fans do not believe in, by a manager who I dislike more and more by the day.

Jay Wood
33 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:51:38
The value of working on corners.

Very cute goal by DK. The goalscorer starts on the far post with his marker, behind another DK player. Goalscoreer makes run to near post where the ball is delivered, other DK blocks off the Everton defender, goalscorer arrives at near post, drawing Barkley out from covering the near post ... where the ball is neatly turned into the vacated space. Howard not to blame for me.

As for Alcaraz... it was his bizarre header across the face of his own goal that set up the corner from which they scored and then he tried to lay another on a plate for them. And Sylvan not even on the bench...

Romelu looks well up for it... brilliant bullying and set up for the equaliser. If only he can keep onside! Ross again struggling to control the simplest of ball played into him.

DK are a very, very tidy team...

Brian Hennessy
34 Posted 12/03/2015 at 20:58:55
Baines's comments on ITV were very interesting tonight.

I get the feeling that Martinez gets furious if we play the ball forward quickly.

Jay Harris
35 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:05:22
Until we scored, we hadn't even threatened their goalie. Same old.

Fed up with Martinez... Time is up. Hopefully the crowd can rescue this game as the manager obviously can't.

Ernie Baywood
36 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:11:25
This is my Everton. They're giving everything. Crowd responding.

How did it take this long to figure it out?

Victor Jones
38 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:13:08
Baines's comments were very interesting.

Q. Who makes tactical decisions? The manager or the assistant? A. I'm not sure.

Q. Can Martinez change tactics to suit a game? A. He likes to stick to his "philosophy " as much as possible.

What a load of bollocks. And Peter Reid rolled his eyes and looked on bemused. Just like all the rest of us are this season.

Those few comments are unbelievable. And they say it's all about this season. Martinez has not got a clue. And even a win tonight will not change that fact. It will only prolong the agony. And it looks like most of his players don't have a clue about what is happening either.

Un-bloody-fucking-believable. And seven good players sitting on the bench, wondering what they have to do to get a game. I dread Sunday.

Alan McGuffog
39 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:34:27
I think weÂ’ll be going out but, if we can reproduce the second half performance against Newcastle, I wonÂ’t be too unhappy.
Pete Ellingham
40 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:34:07
Osman quality!!!!!! Who on here said he was past it???????
John Maddock
41 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:39:39
I simply could not watch that penalty.... friggin' delighted though.
Dan Nulty
42 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:54:13
Luke's was immense. We have to play with that intensity from the start of every game.
Chris Gould
43 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:54:35
Who's been injecting Lukaku with steroids?! Finally showing strength and aggression. His touch was even good tonight. MotM performance. If he can just keep it going until the end of the season.
David Harrison
44 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:55:46
RM has to learn we need to start at a much higher tempo. I actually recognised us as Everton for the last hour.
Gerard Carey
45 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:56:42
Why can't Martinez see the difference when we play with pace? I really think he is clueless. Jags was immense tonight.
Pete Ellingham
46 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:55:38
That was the best perfomance by Lukaku by a mile! His first touch was good, he was strong and was involved in all the good moves. Chuffed to bits, I thought the crowd were amazing, I truly believe they got us that result!! COYB!!
Charles Barrow
47 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:49:18
Shame we didn't bury them in second half – it will be pretty nerve-wracking in Kiev.

If we play like we did in first half we've no chance! But perhaps Martinez has learnt something tonight (here's hoping).

Adam Luszniak
48 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:59:08
Not sure we 'got lucky' for the pen, Osman put a cross in which came off a defender's arm, after a period of really sustained pressure which began in the end of the first half and lasted most of the second. Didn't look that lucky to me, we worked hard for it!
Brian Hennessy
49 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:56:15
My match summary for what it's worth – Martinez sent out his badly selected team to play the way he always wants to play as usual.

It wasn't working for 35 minutes and a brilliant Goodison crowd told the players as much and frightened the shit out of any Everton player who even thought of passing backwards.

We got the win we deserved and they looked a pretty ordinary side. Lukaku was quite brilliant. Jagielka, Garbutt, Naismith excellent too.

Thank-you to each and every one of the Everton fans who changed the outcome of this match tonight.

Don't get too excited though, I fully expect RM to spend the next few days teaching us how to play backwards/sideways again.

Christy Ring
50 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:38:49
We have showed a lot more tempo in the 2nd half which was badly missing and a lot more passion. McCarthy has been superb.

The changes left us with no shape, no width. He brought off Mirallas and put Ross wide right and then took him off. Why not put Atsu on the wing? Kone offered nothing.

Sue Brown
51 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:02:23
Worked hard and got the result tonight, Rom doing what he does best. Bainesesort of giving the game away there at half time though, eh, with those comments.
Tony Hill
52 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:02:43
Very pleasing in the end. Lukaku very good indeed. McCarthy also excellent especially second half. Wobbly start but no complaints at all from me.

I agree some of the Baines comments were a bit worrying as to the bigger picture.

Now beat Newcastle.

Jay Wood
53 Posted 12/03/2015 at 21:55:47
MUCH better 2nd half, but ... Why? Why this disparity between our league form and the EL?

Three consecutive games in the EL we’ve lost the 1st goal and recovered to win. It’s 13 months since we’ve done that in the PL

Again, good to see Ossie on the pitch. His absence has been a big loss this season.

And... I’m rather fond of our 㿈m ’lump’ up front and the ’shite’ Naismith...

Mike Hughes
54 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:06:00
Good character and work ethic tonight. I thought Lukaku was excellent. Naismith did well – they all did to be fair.

Need to sign Garbutt long term. Now to make mince-meat of Newcastle...

Bill Gall
55 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:03:28
This must be the only team in the league who ignore the manager and show him how the game should be played. I guess the manager will take all the credit for it. Imagine that Everton played for about 60 mins with urgency and a desire to win; hopefully they can do the same on Sunday. If they do, then to night's result will really mean something.
Stephen Brown
56 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:10:12
I don't, you know, think, you know, Leighton, you know, Baines should, you know, go into, you know, punditry.

Well done lads on a good performance but I can't fully enjoy the Europa until we have at least 2 more Premier League wins!

Mike Price
57 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:10:06
What must Robles be thinking? Howard looks like he's trying to concede at least a goal a game and inspires zero confidence.

The crowd turned that match without a doubt and I don't think that slow crap will be tolerated anymore.

Jay Harris
58 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:02:47
Thought we deserved 2-1 or 3-1 on the second half display using the twelfth man.

Pity we can't buy a clean sheet at the moment so ominous for the second leg.

I don't suppose Roberto will change his principles and practice some defending. including putting a man on the post for corners... Thought not; so no clean sheet it is then.

Onto Newcastle on Sunday and hopefully Martinez wont ruin that for us.

Stephen Brown
59 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:14:51
Totally agree about the crowd, Mike (#57). We need that 2nd-half tempo from the start on Sunday.
Victor Jones
60 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:03:47
Not bad. I cannot knock Martinez tonight. All I ask is that we try our best, and win the odd football match. And tonight, for a change, we finished the stronger. We could have scored a third goal.

And here's hoping that Martinez noticed that the team played better when Barkley and Mirallas went off. That is obvious to everybody. My old Staffie pointed that out to me. FFS, even the wife has twigged on to that. So come on Martinez, open your eyes.

Here we go again. Same old questions. Can we win a game after a European night? Can we keep a little momentum going? Can Lukaku play two consecutive good games? Can Martinez play players in their proper positions? Can Martinez stop using so many Defensive midfielders? Can we beat Newcastle?

The answer my friends is blowing in the wind. Who knows what will happen. Because I sure as hell don't. FOREVER EVERTON.

Patrick Murphy
61 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:15:58
If Everton had started the game like they had finished it, we would be looking forward to a Quarter-Final tie. As it is, we’ll have to give a very good performance over there and I just feel that we won’t have enough to get through the tie, but will be happy to be proved wrong.

As for Alcaraz, I thought he may as well don a Kiev shirt as he was causing us as many problems as any of their players. Good comeback and a lead is a lead but it could and probably should have been better.

Let’s see if tonight showed that the crowd will support the team if they are at it 100%; we can’t afford another slow start in any of our remaining games.

Andy Williams
63 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:13:27
Lukaku looked every inch a 㿈 million striker. At the very worst, we will get our money back on him from a European team. However, if he can carry on as he has been doing and he is given the service then he could be truly great.

His claims regarding how his family problems affected him in the first part of the season certainly seem to be true. If he can bring a bit more of that zest to the league then we should be alright.

Peter Bell
64 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:23:27
Next goal the winner for me; if we go behind in Kiev, they don't have it in them to come back... but, if we score first, they have it in them to stop Kiev scoring three.
Paul Holmes
65 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:19:56
In my opinion, I must have watched a different match to most of the posters on here. We won, great effort in the second half... but the quality was poor; too many misplaced passes, no real direction in the play.

I thought Barkley was anonymous (he is supposed to link up the play). Naismith (apart from the goal) kept passing to the opposition.

The best we have played was against Young Boys away, good football with a purpose, but tonight’s match was disjointed and worrying with the Newcastle match coming up on Sunday.

Tony Hill
66 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:29:02
The most remarkable thing was Lukaku's touch. Normally awful, tonight it was almost perfect, and in wet conditions. New boots? New feet?
Paul Jeronovich
67 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:33:14
Great result after a shaky start. If they play like this from the off on Sunday, we should get a massive 3 points. COYB
Paul Smith
69 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:33:22
I missed the first half. The crowd sounded up for it tonight – makes a difference. Howard is intransigent, it was as if he was deliberately taking his time at the end. Kone looked dodge as well.

The rest of them put in a shift – well done, boys. Now for the Geordies.

Paul Thompson
70 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:33:49
Agree Tony (@66). Lukaku’s touch was immaculate throughout, including with his back to goal. Is it just a confidence thing?

Almost everyone played well second half, including Alcaraz who had a shocker in the first. The exception was Mirallas and Kone looked ponderous when he came on.

Ossie made a difference. I want to see either him or Gibson on the pitch to give us that bit of creativity and guile.

Tony Draper
71 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:26:56
Naismith worked his nuts off all night. Not everything he did worked or was perfect but he kept plugging away. His finish for our opener was class, timely and he didn't bottle it. But, we knew he wouldn't, cos Nais does score crucial goals.

Jags was a proper "Captain Courageous" tonight, he'll never make a left winger, but I loved that he kept on going and going in that move. That's not in any coaching manual or philosophy, it's one of those things that a player does which makes you think, "FFS, Jags! Go'ead, mate .....GO ON!", and the effect that it has upon the crowd is immeasurable.

Luke Garbutt made a serious contribution with some great dead balls, interceptions and wicked corners. Shame he wasted 2 consecutive corners... no excuse for the second.

James McCarthy just grew better and better. Even Gareth Barry put in a proper worthwhile shift; overdue, but still much valued.

Romelu Lukaku was very very dangerous! That run... FFS, he was like the opening scenes of the original "Indiana Jones". So much threat. FOUR men, and he brushed past 'em without a second glance. LOVED it!

Man of the match by a fuckin mile, Romelu Lukaku.

Victor Jones
72 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:26:17
I am not going to knock Barkley or Mirallas, as I think that they still have futures at Everton. But Barkley needs to be taken out of the firing line. Use him as an impact sub when players are tiring. His confidence needs a little TLC. He can in the future be a very good player. But he needs coaching, and I'm not sure if Martinez is guiding him right. But the lad is young. He should learn.

As for Mirallas? He needs a kick up the you-know-what. He needs to be told to cut the crap. He needs to be played in his proper position. Which I believe is right midfield. And he needs to show respect to this great club. There is a player there. But he needs to start performing.

I never liked seeing Barkley, Mirallas, and Naismith playing in the same team. The three of them keep running into the same channels. They muddle each other up. Tonight I thought the team had more balance when Osman and Kone came on.

Let's now beat Newcastle. Please let's beat Newcastle. It's over to you Mr Martinez.

Michael Penley
73 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:53:28
Does anyone know why we weren't wearing our proper kit? I thought the home team could wear anything they want and the away team had to adapt, yet we were in all blue. Another example of 'nice guy' Everton letting the other side do what they like?
Dave Abrahams
74 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:31:05
First half an hour, we were as bad as we've been all season, then the crowd took over and roared the team into some action. We then had a decent go at them and if we had scored another goal we would be in with a good chance in Kiev, but not with HIM in goal, he unnerves the defence.

What I learned tonight with the crowd was that those supporters who wear blue-tinted glasses and start arguing with the supporters who are jeering the constant back-passing are actually stopping Everton from progressing as, without the crowd tonight, we would have stayed playing the way we started and no way would we have won this game.

I hope the crowd stay this way on Sunday.

Gavin Johnson
76 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:48:03
My heart sank in the first 10 minutes or so, when we were passing sideways and it looked like Kiev were just going to sit behind the ball. The goal gave us an immense lift and we looked good after that. Rom was immense tonight, as was McCarthy.

I also think that Kone should play alongside Rom more: he just gives us that presence in the box when Rom plays off the shoulder down the channels.

We've got a platform to take to take over to Kiev and there's no reason why we shouldn't go through, but let's get something from Sunday first.

Chris Gould
77 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:51:45
I feel so proud tonight. The players reacted to the crowd. They ripped off Martinez's shackles and played fast, aggressive football. They now need to tell Martinez that they aren't listening any more until he accepts that the way forward IS PASSING FORWARD!!
Breandan Clarke
78 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:57:57
Why does Martinez get the blame for the players moving the ball slowly and not looking bothered? The players were going backwards in the first half because there is little to zero movement in front of them. Said it on the forum but McCarthy first-half was just abysmal. More often or not, he was stood in the centre circle walking around marked in between men. No movement to even receive and give the ball straight back, try take a man with him at least free some space.

He was a different player in the second half and as a whole came out the second half all guns blazing from the get-go. It felt to me at home that the crowd finally came on board when they players were having a go but I'm in Ireland. Anyone at the match fill us armchairs in?

Leung Chi Ho
79 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:54:06
Anyone agreed with me that we played the last 60 mins "the Moyes style"? I miss DM now ('cry'). I remember that we used to play the high tempo games under Moyes and it suits the players we have now. I hope RM can fine-tune his philosophy cause some of our players are not good in possession football,i.e. Jags, Distin, McCarthy, Lukaku, Naismith etc.

Another question: Which game is important – Newcastle Utd or Dynamo Kiev? I will vote Dynamo Kiev cause I don't think we are really in the relegation battles in this moment and you will not be afraid when you look at how much worse the bottom 4 are.

I hope RM can rest 3 to 4 players and use the likes of Besic, Osman, Gibson & Lennon to play on Sunday.

Barry Lambert
80 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:45:34
Alcaraz stunk! What on earth was he doing for their corner? He then got lucky twice in three seconds. An absolute liability.

Roberto, ignore the fans at your peril. The fans were 100% responsible for the transformation in play tonight. All those screaming for the ball to go forward, give yourselves a massive pat on the back. I watched it on the telly the crowd were awesome!

Unfortunately, I fear 2-1 is not enough.

William Mctaggart
81 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:02:30
All this chat about Martinez is rubbish. Who brought Kone on? Who brought Osman on? Those changes won us the game. You could see he was just as frustrated as the Goodison crowd for those first 30 mins. Give the man some credit, for Christ's sake – we won.
Colin Malone
82 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:58:56
It's right, the crowd was not going to tolerate the slow square passing build and they let it be known, then the ball was passed to Lukaku quicker, how he prefers it, and bingo.

Then the toothless Mirallas was taken off and the old Coleman came to life. A mention for Jags and Barry.

Jamie Barlow
83 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:10:19
"It felt to me at home that the crowd finally came on board when they players were having a go but I'm in Ireland."

Absolutely right but why does it take 20 odd thousand people screaming at them to play the ball forward for them to do it?

The first half an hour nearly had me packing it in watching them.

Who was that big black lad we had up front? Nearly everything stuck to him. Brilliant game and my Man of the Match.

Dave Abrahams
84 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:14:17
Colin (82) Lukaku will get Man of the Match, but I agree with you Jagielka was immense and was Man of the Match for me.
Breandan Clarke
85 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:06:37
Jamie (#83), I have no idea... maybe RM treats them like adults and expects them to take on what he says without having a go or leading them by the hand. Maybe we need a hard № 2 to scare shite into the players?

Martinez said this about the first half – "...a lot of anxiety, not enough tempo, no possession and we didn't have a forward intent." According to some on here, the slow, awful dross the players served up first half was the Martinez way.

I think someone on here mentioned that the players don't fancy Martinez anymore. Would tend to agree with that considering the two contrasting levels of effort each half.

Mike Childs
86 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:03:43
Great entertainment tonight but more importantly finally a show of heart that the fans inspired. If only that idiot would start Robles, I could stop worrying about being relegated.

Lots of you may feel LB wasn't at fault for the first one but imo any GK who gets beat at the near post when he has time to cover it is garbage. What was it? 2 shots on net for DK 1 goal scored. At least he kept his average GK who's the assist leader for our opponents. He did it again tonight: first get the ball out into the middle of the box.

Jamie Barlow
87 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:18:04
Alcaraz stunk like everyone else in the first half hour. I thought he played well for the other hour.

Energy and tempo being used to describe Everton. Who'd have believed it?

Colin Glassar
89 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:24:02
Lukaku was superb tonight but Jags was my MotM tonight. He played his heart out and led by example.
James Kirrane
90 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:22:17
Decent result. But will we ever keep a clean sheet with that clown Howard in goal???
Tony Abrahams
91 Posted 12/03/2015 at 22:52:54
If we could have played with intensity throughout, we would be through tonight. That said, if we can keep the tempo of the last hour up, we should have no problems.

Martinez, I was ashamed of the formation tonight, it's making good players nervous, and it makes our team look poor.

Everton's crowd was fantastic tonight, and if the manager doesn't realise that it's skill and tempo we crave, then he shouldn't be involved with us at all. Thought the crowd was just waiting for lift off, and I'm not sure if it was Alcaraz's careless back pass or Lukaku's run which gave us it.

We showed character to come from behind, but Kiev must have thought they were playing another Ukranian side tonight, for the first 30 minutes. Play with pace and play with passion, it's the thing which foreign sides hate to play against and it also helps to get the crowd involved as well. Don't know if it's going to be enough, but that last hour at least reminded me of why I've always loved going to Goodison.

Breandan Clarke
92 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:28:02
Agree Colin. Jags winning the ball in his own half, driving forward and then chasing down a lost cause to win us a throw deep in their half was one of my moments of the night, as sad as that is.
Gavin Johnson
93 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:24:47
Luckily Stones should be back on the weekend. Alacraz's backpass was just complete incompetence. As others have said on this thread – Jags had a very good game, and just as well seeing how bad the other CB was.

I feel the same about Howard. I just think we'll concede every game while he's in the team. I'll be very surprised if he's still at the club after the summer.

Colin Gee
94 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:24:09
Good win against a decent side; for the first 30 minutes, though, you could sense the crowd's frustration, one or two boos... then there was almost a sea change. Once we started going forwards rather than side to side and backwards, not sure what James McCarthy was up to though telling the Lower Gwladys to "Relax and calm down" – just before they scored from the corner.

Once we started playing at the higher tempo we looked like a decent side again. Hopefully we can continue with that approach against the Cartoon Army on Sunday. We need Stones to be fit though as Alcaraz was giving me a heart-attack every time he was near the ball.

James Stewart
97 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:37:02
I think Michael is right when he says there is a big pool of players to chose from. My problem is that at least 30% of them are well below the required level. Barry, Alcaraz, McGeady, Lennon, Kone, Howard etc are

Mostly Martinez signings who look completely at home in a relegation threatened side.

Tonight was at least a positive result if probably a goal short of going through. Lukaku obviously gets himself up for European games which is more than can be said for Mirallas. We are going to be lucky to recoup what we paid for him on current form!

Tamhas Woods
100 Posted 13/03/2015 at 00:06:33
Brendan (78)

Think of the Neville/Ronaldo game against United in October 2008 and (Lukaku penalty aside) you're on the right lines.

The atmosphere was as bad as anything I can remember under Moyes at his worst, but the equaliser changed everything.

Colin Malone
101 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:58:34
James (#97),

I don't agree with you about Barry. Barry was superb tonight as was my favourite player, Jags. As with Distin and Baines, they are not comfortable with this possession football from the back. Again, as you seen last season and tonight, these players thrive getting the ball up front sooner rather than later, with the tippy-toe passing that is completely not their game.

Martinez, your philosophy should start with youth or spend multi-millions on players but, until then, let these player do what they do best.

Dave Nelson
102 Posted 12/03/2015 at 23:56:58
IÂ’m going to cut to the chase. Get this clown out. 35 mins till we try and attack and have a shot on goal? At home?

IÂ’ve had enough of Martinez, he bored me to tears last season to be honest. He is going to ruin our club. The times when my mates sat in the pub before the game and discussed who should play and whoÂ’s shite have long gone. Now, all the talk is about his tedious tactics.

We have a decent squad of players. Hell most of the posters on here could pick an exciting and winning formation with the players at hand; playing to the strength of the players. Not Robert though. Oh and Kiev were there for the taking. Shite side.

Ernie Baywood
103 Posted 13/03/2015 at 00:17:25
Hard game to sum up. With half an hour gone it was horrible to watch. Had Kyiv got a second it could have been tie over, Bobby over, era finished. Crowd going further than frustrated – it felt very bad to be an Evertonian at that moment.

75 minutes layer and my love has been rekindled. The players responded, the crowd roared. McCarthy, Jags and Rom played like they were at war.

This one just couldn't be a false dawn. It felt like we were backs to the wall and needing something – Everton and the Old Lady always respond to that and find something. That was a bit special.

We're backs to the wall in the league. If we come out swinging like we did for an hour tonight, then we'll have no problems.

Come On You Blues.

Dave Nelson
104 Posted 13/03/2015 at 01:31:48
Let’s not be fooled by the commitment and passion showed in the second half, that was in spite of Martinez – not due to. Baines said as much well before the game started without saying anything – if you know what I mean.

Martinez is stinking the place out with his formation. IÂ’ve read EugeneÂ’s posts saying that heÂ’s fed up with reading the same posts. Well, sorry mate but IÂ’ve inadvertently posted the same whine. I wish we all went back to calling Osman shite.

Andrew Presly
105 Posted 13/03/2015 at 01:46:51
WeÂ’re out after conceding that away goal.

I have zero faith in manager / team to avoid defeat in Kiev.

Sack him tonight, replace with J Royle as Caretaker & everything changes. DonÂ’t & weÂ’ll find out soon.

Dan Parker
106 Posted 13/03/2015 at 02:00:13
Really? Only British team left, goal advantage and sack him!? Because Joe Royle is well in touch with the modern game.... I think our league performances are awful, Martinez isn't the right man for the job but whilst we're still in Europe, he has my backing, I think...

Zero faith after conceding an away goal, ridiculous.

Dan Parker
107 Posted 13/03/2015 at 02:03:49
We won 2-1 ffs, how can folks be so negative. Premier League performance yes, absolutely, but Europa League it's one small step...
Paul Ward
108 Posted 13/03/2015 at 01:28:09
Dave Abrahams (#74) you are spot on. The only other things I would add is get rid of Howard once and for all. He is getting worse and commands no respect from his defenders or most fans. Barkley should not be considered a starter again this season as he has been given enough chances. He may improve next season but I do have doubts.
Eugene Ruane
109 Posted 13/03/2015 at 00:29:17
When the ball flew (in front of) just past Howard just before the panic that led to the corner that led to their goal, there was the loudest angriest scream in his direction I've heard in a long while.

His reaction to the passage of play was odd, like he was fucking drugged, why did he just..watch it? (reminded me of a scene from the excellent Aussie comedy 'The Club')

Three seconds later, McCarthy's attempted 'clearance' brought an even louder bellow and when he suggested to the St End that they should 'calm down' fellers all around me were close to blowing gaskets.

When they scored from the resulting corner, I'm sure one or two literally bust blood vessels.

What tonight showed me is that Everton supporters are very much 'on edge' at the moment and consequently, I hope the team put in the required effort performance on Sunday; if not, the place could explode.

Up the Toffees!

Andrew Presly
110 Posted 13/03/2015 at 02:15:27
Dan - IÂ’m just calling it nice & early. ItÂ’s obvious now that this manager has become a farcical character & he wonÂ’t have the wherewithal to get what have become pretty cowardly characters, letÂ’s be frank, to avoid defeat over there. Royle would get these clowns organised & up for it. IÂ’ve seen enough of this charlatan and I think you have too.
Mike Price
111 Posted 13/03/2015 at 06:15:45
Joe Royle is savvy and street smart. He is renowned for being a brilliant man manager.

He would be a great interim manager to stoke things up and I'm confident he would save us from the drop. It may happen if we lose the next two games.

Picking Howard is a sackable offense in itself at the moment. What is he thinking?...we can see how bad he is, so I'm sure all the players are thinking the same thing. That just adds to the loss of respect for the manager from the players.

I wonder if he actually wants out with his payoff and away from all the nasty scousers!

Charles Brewer
112 Posted 13/03/2015 at 07:36:34
Just about all the players and a mixed match, apart from Jagielka, Lukaku and Howard. The first two were exemplary throughout, the last an immobile disaster. It was just as well there were so few shots of any quality against us. Even their clown of a goalkeeper managed a few decent saves.
Jeff Hughes
113 Posted 13/03/2015 at 07:10:10
A good win should be celebrated BUT an incredibly poor and frustrating first half deserves some severe questioning. Unbalanced again, with at one point Lukaku, Barkley, Mirallas and Naismith all waiting for the ball in a tight central area with no width. We did however break free of what now appears to be the MARTINEZ shackles and go with the flow to produce an 'Everton' performance and we looked much better with Osman on.

I know there appears to be an unwritten rule that Barkley is our gem, our protege and a hero in waiting and we should not criticise but we have to wake up to the dismal truth that the poor lad is currently out of depth. Being kind, he wanders around like a lost soul but being critical he also hides from the ball and the responsibilities of a midfield player. Take him out of the team for his own good. He is a complete passenger.

Terry McLavey
114 Posted 13/03/2015 at 08:57:00
Talk about a game of two half's! Do you think they read my post #130 in the "Martinez tired legs" article? Also Peter (#142), perhaps they did show it at Finch Farm!

I think it's called playing for pride? Good to see what they can do when they feel like it, a job well done, monumental performance from Rom. Keep it up, La!

Tony Abrahams
115 Posted 13/03/2015 at 09:00:23
Got to give Barkley time, but it's a shame he hasn't got Osman's football brain. Think it would really help him if we had a proper wide player out left though, instead of having to run where he doesn't really want to. Too often.

Howard's drugs are powerful, Eugene, because he was still acting like it was a pre season game with three minutes left, walking to take a goal kick??? The Park End and Main Stand were screaming at him to fuckin hurry up, but he's the man with the experience! Crazy.

Paul Burns
116 Posted 13/03/2015 at 09:23:53
Kiev are very ordinary, tidy at best. ThereÂ’s nothing to fear and if weÂ’d have played with pace, tempo and power from the start, weÂ’d have destroyed them. They were out on their feet at the end, knackered.

WeÂ’re playing 11 men, not the name of Dynamo Kiev, a good side in the distant past. The RS never show any respect to European "name" teams at any time and itÂ’s worked for them.

The last thing we need is a cowardly away performance à la the David Moyes era where we went out without a whimper against inferior teams.

Trevor Peers
117 Posted 13/03/2015 at 09:27:09
Jeff (#113),

I agree with your assessment of Ross: he does look out of his depth. The only hope he has got is that a better manager can untap whatever potential he has.

Also, I thought Mirallas was a disgrace; he was anonymous and was lucky not to be sent off after striking an opponent in the first half.

Tony Hill
118 Posted 13/03/2015 at 09:30:12
Jeff, Tony #113 and #115 – Barkley is an ongoing worry, no doubt about it, and he was poor again last night but I still hope and believe that he will fulfil his massive potential with us.

I have given him stick at the ground this year but I have been persuaded by those who argue that we have to support him through this bad period (which I think has a large psychological element), even though he is so frustrating to watch. Let's get behind him and accept that it is going to take time.

I know it's already taken a long time and I understand why some are inclined to write him off, but he's one of our own, and one of the most naturally talented that we've had, and I think there could be big rewards for patience now.

Derek Thomas
119 Posted 13/03/2015 at 09:38:41
Andrew #110; not quite 'calling it early', more like 'getting with the program'...anyway, welcome, glad you could make it.
Tony Abrahams
120 Posted 13/03/2015 at 09:53:29
Tony 118, what else can we do but give him time?

The main worry for me is that Martinez was talking about playing him out wide to learn him different positions. Why doesn't he play him inside with a proper wide man outside of him? This way Ross can learn his trade in a more natural place, and the wideman might just stretch defences, to give Barkley a bit of space and direction to play.

He had one real run in the second half when his left foot shot was blocked, but when he's allowed to go both ways, he will become a much more dangerous player.

Jay Woods
121 Posted 13/03/2015 at 10:18:23
Barkley is not being properly coached. The same could be said for the rest of the team as well, with all that mind-numbing sideways passing they like to do (until the crowd gets them moving forward).

People are quick to castigate Jagielka for lack of leadership on the field, but the real lack of leadership is at the bench level.

Steve Brown
122 Posted 13/03/2015 at 10:45:05
Jay @ 121, you have just let the entire team off the hook there for their terrible collective and individual performances this season. Barkely is responsible for his current form, as is Jagielka for his poor leadership. Same applies to Howard, Barry, Miralles etc etc.
Eddie Tully
123 Posted 13/03/2015 at 10:36:24
My take from the Main Stand: no wonder the players are nervous with all the abuse being given out in the first few minutes! Never heard so many fucking fantasy football managers giving the team shit.

I don't believe for one minute that this 'helps' the team in any way, quite the opposite in fact. Let's hope it doesn't become a self fulfilling prophecy.

An awful first 30 mins, but an excellent performance from there on in.

Stand out performers for me:

Lukaku – In beast mode.
Jagielka – Actually looked and performed like a captain.
Garbutt – Better than Baines has been all season.
Naisy & McCarthy – Never stopped fighting for the shirt as expected.

The 'supporters' – The less said the better.

ps: No, I don't think paying for your ticket gives you the right to boo the team, fucking grow a pair or don't bother going to the match.

COYB!

Steve Brown
124 Posted 13/03/2015 at 10:58:51
By the way, I was referring to Jags's leadership over the course of the season. Last night he was excellent.
Dave Abrahams
125 Posted 13/03/2015 at 11:02:35
Eddie, " the supporters--less said the better". Well Eddie you are entitled to your opinion, for me the supporters helped the team to win this game. What are we supposed to do, sit there and just accept the negative football that was offered up.

I hope the fans get behind the team in exactly the same way on Sunday, and that means if they start on Sunday like they did last night, let them know we are not having it.

Of course Eddie you can react as you see fit.

Tony McNulty
126 Posted 13/03/2015 at 11:00:27
A raft of former professionals rate Barkley very highly. He is a potential star and a huge talent. I really dislike the way the crowd get on his back, and I am sure it really helps the lad.

So why is it going wrong? I suggest:

1. He plays (presumably under instruction) about thirty yards too deep.

2. When he gets the ball he understudies the hermit crab and passes it sideways (again, presumably under instruction, but if he is that deep then it makes sense - you don't want to lose the ball that close to your own goal).

3. He isn't following his natural instincts any more; I think the way he has constantly been asked to shift position and role may have scrambled his brain.

As Paul Merson put it a few weeks back, any opposition manager or defender is delighted when they see Barkley playing deep instead or running at pace towards their penalty area.

For me it is another case of a player not playing according to their strengths, but instead working to some theoretical blueprint of what football ought to be. When he scored his free kick against West Ham last season, I wonder if they docked his wages.

Jay Woods
127 Posted 13/03/2015 at 11:14:13
@ Steve Brown: So the entire team underwent a simultaneous collective epiphany and suddenly realised they were, to a man, crap? The same players who were hammering Arsenal and Man Utd last season?

What is the role of a manager in your opinion then? Just a guy who picks the team? After that, it's 100% up to the players?

Eddie Tully
128 Posted 13/03/2015 at 11:30:32
Dave @125. Thank you for allowing me my opinion.

What do you think about the supporters booing when we were 3-1 up to QPR at home?

What's your opinion on the idiot behind me who kept shouting for Lukaku to show the keeper his teeth ffs?

How about the fighting between ourselves in the Lower Gwladys?

I say support the team, whatever your opinion is of the manager or his selections. Then have your moan after the game is over.

Also, this assumption by some that Martinez coaches the players to pass the ball slowly is quite frankly ridiculous. I'm at a loss reading this forum at times!

Steve King
129 Posted 13/03/2015 at 11:54:58
The fella sat next to me in the Upper Bullens last night nailed it for me. "We all come here to support them... but Everton turn the crowd against them"

The dithering, slow and repetitive passing without a plan or idea of the desired final outcome, followed after 5 minutes by a hopeful punt to nobody is so frustrating that you cannot help but think "what the fuck are they playing at"? Most of us will find ourselves vocalizing this frustration as is our right having paid our hard earned money to attend.

The players that tried to change the tempo (Lukaku and McCarthy for example) got the support they deserved, even in that horrible first 30 minutes.

When we're subjected to that dirge, "Supporting the team no matter what" is impossible for the average rational human being, even with the best intentions.

Jeff Hughes
130 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:00:30
Tony #126 the only issue about your comment 'a raft of former professionals rate him very highly' is the fact that many of these so called pundits watch nothing more than highlights and trot out the received wisdom of others. If they actually took the time to watch Barkley closely, as I and many Everton fans do, they would see his performances, sadly, are very poor. I don't want them to be poor; I can see that he has physical and technical strengths and he has shown fleeting moments of great ability BUT the grim reality is that he is a passenger at present and playing him is actually making matters worse and we cannot afford a passenger at this moment in time. On the subject of fans moaning/booing, I side with a fans right to complain if they feel things are wrong and blind loyalty shown by some fans and SOS1878 appear to believe that blind loyalty is a fans duty. NONSENSE!
Jim Knightley
131 Posted 13/03/2015 at 11:58:37
Martinez does not coach the players to pass the ball slowly, but he does coach the players to play a short passing game, in the absence of natural fit passers (Osman and Pienaar are most suited to this game, and both are at the wrong end of the careers). He is ultimately responsible for 1) playing a style which does not suit the players 2) buying players which do not suit the style he wants to play. There is nothing inherently wrong with his philosophy, although I think the last few seasons in football has proved that a mixed style is the best approach, but there is something wrong with him applying his style to a group of players who do not operate well with that style. Moyes would undoubtedly get more out of this group than Martinez, not because Moyes is perfect, but because he would do the simple things we are neglecting at the moment.

That said, some of the negativity on here is bewildering. As I've said before, and numerous others have said, this is Europa League and not the Premier League. We need to go into this with more confidence, as do the players. The first 30 minutes was timid and pathetic last night, and could cost us the tie. It was not timid and pathetic because of the style primarily, although that has been our most consistent issue this season, but because of an incredibly nervous team. Lukaku changed that last night, with some phenomenal strength and skill which demonstrates exactly why he has been compared to Drogba, and why he managed 32 Premier League goals in 2 seasons as a 19-21 year old. He also demonstrated why the fans need to support him a little more, because a 21 year needs confidence. If you are in doubt, rewatch the recent performances of a previously swashbuckling Real Madrid team, suffering from the complete lack of it at the moment. Confidence changes teams, and wins trophies.

Also, Barkley was horrific. He is devoid of any confidence, or anything, at the moment, and I think he needs a break from the starting eleven for a few weeks. Let him play at the tail end of games when legs are tiring, and when there is nothing to lose, so he can stop playing with the weight of something to lose on his shoulders.

Paul Burns
132 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:05:26
What separates winners from losers is attitude. People on here think weÂ’re out cos we let in a goal at home. Pathetic. Liverpool would take Kiev to the cleaners home and away, everyone knows it. They aspire to be ordinary yet are being treated like world beaters by some posters on here.

Underestimating teams is a major mistake but so is overestimating and many on here are guilty of it. Everton are well capable of winning in Ukraine without a shadow of a doubt.

Eddie Tully
133 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:14:26
Yes Jim, the players were extremely nervous, I suppose some on here would say that was Roberto's fault, I blame the atmosphere or lack of.

Ossie made a massive difference when he came on. Where are all of his haters?

Also, this widely held opinion that we only achieved a record points haul last season because of Moyes' legacy is pathetic.

Does everybody forget how negative and agricultural our football was under the miserable one?

He had his good points and made (some) good signings over the years but come on, don't be daft ffs!

Jack Ledwidge
134 Posted 13/03/2015 at 10:55:41
Watched it from the Paddock last night and reflected afterwards on how the game was played out and how the whole Martinez thing has been slowly unwinding this season. Nobody disagrees with his principles of the passing game but I see the problems as two-fold.

When Martinez names his side each week with Lukaku the lone striker the midfield axis of the side (being what it is) industrious rather than creative, the outcome and pattern of play is inevitable . The players at his disposal this season cannot implement his style of play. This results in a congested midfield of like minded players where ball retention either sideways or backwards is the order of the day.

When Kone was introduced it forces a re-think by these players who are now a man down so to speak and then the game gets pushed into the final third. It brings Lukaku into the game now that heÂ’s got support and because the traffic is gone from midfield it means the full backs can get into space and press forward. In a nutshell unless Martinez changes the formation ( rather than the players ) his passing philosophy game will continue to go nowhere. His ideas are all very fine but theyÂ’ll only work with a David Silva type player playing behind Lukaku.

Peter Roberts
135 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:35:40
So a game of two different performance levels and RM gets the stick?

I think its as clear as day that the players have been pedestrian and lacklustre.

Peter Reid rolled his eyes when Baines made his comments abou the manager? I seen nothing of the kind. Baines was just limiting his answers.

This forum is just all about slating the manager - pure negativity, start looking at the players.

How can Rom look so good and then so bad? Attitiude - thats why. He chooses when he wants to be up for it. He needs a jockey on his back - lazy, but when he wants to do it hes great.

Mike Childs
136 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:17:17
Barkley just needs to be moved back to CDM like against QPR.
Jim Knightley
137 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:36:36
I think we do remember that Eddie, but we also remember some good football played by the likes of Arteta and Pienaar, which gets swept under the carpet by the homogenizing bad football tags applied to Moyes' team. Moyes, save for one season, never really underachieved at Everton, and bar perhaps one squad, never had a team as talented as our current one. For his faults, he did incredibly to raise us up despite a limited budget, and seeing alot of his work, and our work, going do the drain this season will naturally lead to some hankering for him, even if fans do not really want Moyes back, but just a good manager who can get us competing at the right end of the table. An ideal world world see a combination of Moyes and Martinez, and I think that's what we got last season.

This season it has died for multiple reasons. It has died though, in the main, because of Martinez and a serious of high profile mistakes which in my opinion go beyond Moyes' fuck upS. The three year Barry deal. The buying of quick wingers/tacklers despite trying to implement a short passing game. The Eto'o business. The playing of Naismith and Barkley and Eto'o out of position, and the consequent demise of Barkley. The failure to play to Lukaku's strengths. The absurdly poor pre-season preparations, and a general lack of fitness which has effected us since. The decision to reinstate Howard in place of an in form Robles. The failure to adapt the playing style to necessity, and opponents etc etc.

It is worse, because Martinez remains so stubborn, and set in his ways. Something which was rightly applied to Moyes too, but a Moyes who showed he could change during his reign. Martinez needs to change, and change fast, but I do not expect it to happen, as it never happened at Wigan, and he is making the same mistakes again here.

Brian Harrison
138 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:39:46
So it's the supporters fault – how pathetic a statement is that? The supporters have had to put up with dross for most of this season, is it any wonder they are totally pissed off with this charlatan?

As for "it's not his fault that they pass it around so slowly," – of course it's his fault... he presides over training, he should instill into them every minute of every day the tempo he wants them to play at.

Every game we play starts the same way, the our central defenders exchanging 3 or 4 passes before passing to our full backs or defensive midfield players, who are all still in our own half. No wonder the crowd become frustrated, all we want is to see the team have some attacking intent rather than this negative passing doctrine that RM has developed.

No coincidence that the mood of the crowd changed when we started to look to attack the opposition, but had to wait for them to score to change the mindset. At last they started to play to Lukaku's strengths, knocking the ball over the top for him to run onto, then we were winning possession high in their half.

I would suggest that in our next training sessions before the Newcastle game that RM makes sure the tempo of our passing is quick and let's see if they start the Newcastle game in a high tempo rather than the slow laborious way we start most of our games.

While in rant mood, I will just finish by saying if 2 years ago I was asked to choose between Henderson and McCarthy, I would have picked McCarthy all day. But while Henderson has improved, for me McCarthy has gone backwards, he very rarely if ever runs beyond the forwards I don't think he has scored this season in fact has he had a shot on target. So is that down to him or our manager?

Jeff Hughes
139 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:49:05
Jim #137 Spot on! Great sense talked here Jim.
Tony McNulty
140 Posted 13/03/2015 at 13:02:30
Jeff (130)

Actually there isn't too much in your post I really disagree with. I'm sure you are right about some of the pundits, but do you not see the real talent which this lad has? I know the performances haven't always been great but I have proposed some reasons for that.

I admit to a soft spot for the views of Paul Merson: he doesn't pretend to be what he isn't; there is no side to him; he tells it as he sees it; some of his observations are quite shrewd (have you heard him on Lukaku?); and that wonderful goal against the RS when he slid it past the keeper when one-on-one.

As to the barracking, paying customers do have the right to complain of course. Where you and I perhaps differ, is that when someone's confidence is shot, I don't think a collective groan every time he gets the ball is going to help matters, especially in the case of a young player.

Lenny Kingman
141 Posted 13/03/2015 at 12:45:28
Someone said earlier that he thought Dynamo were a poor side. Well, I beg to differ. They looked like world beaters early on in the piece. Of course that could be something to do with the standard of the opposition. Maybe, but not entirely.

Yamalenko, if I got his name right, was playing as if he wanted to create some exciting football and entertain the paying public.

As for the ongoing Howard saga, he should have been pulled off after yet another hopeless piece of goalkeeping. Imagine Big Nev in that situation. They shalt not pass, and somehow, someway he would have made sure that goal did not happen.

In fact with the gait of the old legend as it is these days, I would plonk him in goal for the rest of the season. There isn't room for the ball to enter the net with Nev 2015 standing between the sticks.

John Keating
142 Posted 13/03/2015 at 13:17:11
Tony
When a players confidence is shot, especially a young player then he should be taken out the firing line! This manager keeps playing him. He should be on the subs bench, maybe give him the last 10 minutes and play him in his right position.
Steve Carse
143 Posted 13/03/2015 at 13:32:03
Tony (140), whenever has the crowd groaned just because Barkley has received the ball?? Never. Quite the opposite. Whenever he gets the ball the crowd are wanting him to do what we (nearly) all think he's capable of. The collective groans only come about when he makes mistakes. It's a natural human reaction, and it occurs whoever the player is.

Jim Knightley (131), just a correction of a myth around Martinez that you repeat here. Martinez doesn't play a 'short passing' game. I only wish we did. The likes of Barcelona and Arsenal (at their best) play a short passing game, with players passing in small groups and hunting in packs. We play, if I can invent a new term, an 'intermediate' passing game. For most of the time our players are positioned with 15-20 yards between them. That's the standard length of pass we play. The passes are themselves hit without pace, the receiver then takes two or three touches while he's making up his mind what to do with the ball next – with his eventual decision being to play another 15-20 yd pass (square or backwards of course).

Jim Knightley
144 Posted 13/03/2015 at 14:19:18
Steve - the reason our players take touches, play longer passes etc, is because they are not suited to the style, and do not pass and move as they should. Our wide men run, cross or shoot, and do not play fluid football. Naismith is not an efficient passer, and Barkley certainly isn't, whilst none of our DM's can fulfill the deep lying playmaker role central to many passing concentrated systems (Gibson comes close, and we would improve with him in the side).

If we had a fit Pienaar, Osman and Gibson, our midfield play would more closely resemble the short passing style Martinez wants to implement. That would be an absurd midfield of course, because it is not where out personnel strength lies, and that is Martinez's fault. His passing strategy was best represented at Swansea, but his later fixation on implementing it with players not suited, and whilst maintaining pace on the flanks, simply does not work without top quality central ball passing midfielders.

Jeff Hughes
145 Posted 13/03/2015 at 14:13:29
Steve (#143)

One of the points you rightly raise is that most players appear to be taking passes whilst stationary and by the time they decide where to pass next the game slows One of the reasons for this is a lack of movement and running into space, all of which encourages forward passing and passes ahead of players to run onto. This is something which players like Lukaku need if we are to get the best out of them.

I also believe that we have missed Osman and Pienaar who may lack the legs to run into space but they can both take the ball on the move and their turning and twisting changes the angle of attack and allows runners to move into space.

Jamie Barlow
146 Posted 13/03/2015 at 14:07:13
Eddie, if the crowd left it till after the game to let the players know they weren't happy with the shite being served up, they'd have been 70 minutes too late and we'd have probably been half way to going out of the cup.

Let's hope the players get the crowd up for Newcastle with the effort they put in and not the other way round.

Eugene Ruane
147 Posted 13/03/2015 at 14:29:43
Jeff Hughes (145) - Re the slow build up from the back you say - "One of the reasons for this is a lack of movement and running into space, all of which encourages forward passing and passes ahead of players to run onto"

This for me is the problem in a nutshell.

My seat is in the (upper) corner of the St End and when we are attacking the Park End, you get a really clear picture of the (this) problem.

We see the ball rolled out to one of our back-four who looks to see what's on.

When he (whoever it is) looks up the park for forwards, for the most part, what he'll see is 2/3/4 (ludicrously hopeful) faces, STATIONARY, simply staring back down the field.

If I'm the man with the ball, I have two choices, bladder it up the field hopefully in their general direction (which will normally be met by a big puddin' of a centre half) or...keep hold of it.

Guaranteed if Jags punted 3 balls up the park in quick succession and each one was butted back to the halfway-line by a centre halves, all you would hear "You're just givin' away possession you soft tooWAT!"

There were two big differences last season, movement up front and confidence and the latter was usually a result (direct or indirect) of the former.

(to be fair to our fowards, when they do decide to point and go, the ball has to go IMMEDIATELY and too often a 'yips-like' hesitation fucks things up).

Dave Abrahams
148 Posted 13/03/2015 at 14:39:00
Jeff (145), you are so right about the lack of movement, Harold Mathews and a couple of others have been going on about this since the start of the season and it has stayed the same way right through the campaign.

People were getting on Barry's and Coleman's backs when they were holding the ball, the fact was the forwards were all static, so there was nobody in a position to receive the ball; it changed a bit later on in the game.

Brian Harrison
149 Posted 13/03/2015 at 15:19:04
Well whether its the slow build up or the lack of movement up front, the fact is the same faults are there to be seen in every game. So the question is why hasn't the manager identified whats wrong and more importantly why hasn't he put it right.

We know because RM and his assistant have told us they don't spend much time on set pieces, and doesn't look like they spend much time on our passing in the oppositions half, so what do they do at Finch Farm all week.

Michael Kenrick
150 Posted 13/03/2015 at 15:39:39
It does astound me that such diametrically opposed analyses of what went down last night can exist side-by-side here on TW — despite the seemingly obvious manner in which the first half developed and changed under what I can only describe as the fantastic influence of the crowd.

And that's the only place where I can find any explanation for Eddie's flat denial of the crowd influence (which I had thought to this point was obvious for ALL to see).

If, on the one hand, you believe the crowd respond to and can influence the play, then you will have only one impression of what happened last night...

On the other hand, if you hate the idea of crowd reaction, and can't abide the thought that groaning, cajoling, jeering and yes, booing could actually end up having a hugely positive effect on changing the game... well, yes, I guess I could see that last night would have confounded you to the point of complete denial.

But, if it's based purely on objective observation of cause and effect, surely there can only be one conclusion? Or is Eddy right in his analysis, while the rest of us suffer in a deluded sea of 'confirmation bias'?

Eddie Tully
151 Posted 13/03/2015 at 15:29:43
Here's a concise version of some of the ToffeeWeb highlights since Roberto took over:

Last season....

'The School of science is on it's way back etc etc.'

Now........

'This fucking idiot is clueless, he only got a record points haul because of Moyes legacy'

Since we signed Joel............

'That Robles is absolute shite, what a dickhead Marinez is for bringing him here'

Fast forward to recently........

'Eh he's brilliant that Joel isn't he, should be playing instead of Howard ffs' (For the record, I wish he would put him in)

When we signed James McCarthy:

㾸 Million for a Wigan reject, he's a load of crap, more money wasted. We could have signed so and so for that kind of money etc'

Now...........

'What an incredible player McCarthy is, two thirds of the earth is covered by water, the rest by James'

Lukaku:

'㿈 Million for that big lazy waste of space, could've bought 3 really good players for that money cant hold the ball up etc, get rid'

Now:

'Lukaku - Scored 7 goals in Europe, the shite - 6'

Gareth Barry(Last season):

'What a great player he is, really make's the midfield tick. We really need to make sure he signs up'

Now............

'That fat fecker only signed to get his last big payday, stopped trying now, too old, too slow'

Besic (when brought on in the Chelsea game):

'WTF does Roberto think he's doing bringing that load of shite on, who then plays a stupid back pass trying to be a smart arse'

2 months later

'Wow, that Mo Besic is amazing, a proper Everton player, puts a real shift in'

This my friends, is why I will never take any notice of the majority of posters on here.

ToffeeWeb - Schizophrenic Since Inception!

David Barks
152 Posted 13/03/2015 at 15:56:41
If the crowd didn't immediately start screaming their disapproval at the boring, pointless football we came out with last night, nothing would have changed. The supporters finally, in full voice, let the players and Martinez know that the pointless sideways passing approach is not acceptable here.

When the players played a forward pass the supporters shouted in agreement. When they played it backward when there was absolutely no point in doing so, the entire stadium let the team know how pathetic it was. Last nights result was down to the supporters saying, finally, enough is enough. I hope for nothing different in any of the remaining matches.

Michael Kenrick
153 Posted 13/03/2015 at 15:56:53
Exactly, David (#152)... But I think Eddie just gave me the answer while I was typing that:

"This my friends, is why I will never take any notice of the majority of posters on here."

I've always been a bit concerned by anyone who characterizes TW as this single Borg entity that supposedly speaks with one voice and therefore, given how the voice varies with almost every post, must be Schizophrenic!

Or perhaps, Eddie, the explanation is that each of those posts actually comes from separate individuals commenting on very different things at different times, as they change across seasons... or during a season... or as last night — during a single match.

Ray Roche
154 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:01:27
Eddie, if each pair of comments in your post were by the same person
i.e:- "_'That Robles is absolute shite, what a dickhead Marinez is for bringing him here'

'Eh he's brilliant that Joel isn't he, should be playing instead of Howard ffs'
then you would have a point. As each comment has no doubt been made by different people your ToffeeWeb - Schizophrenic observation is devalued. It's not Schizophrenic, just different people with different views.
(I wish he'd put Robles in too)

Ray Roche
155 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:07:34
Great minds, Michael.....
David Barks
156 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:08:11
So Eddie,

If I complain one morning because it's freezing and raining, and then the next day state how lovely the weather is when it's sunny, am I crazy? Or am I just stating the reality of the weather on those 2 separate days. Things change, opinions change, that's human nature. The problem is when people refuse to budge from their opinions no matter what opposite reality is staring them in the face.

Michael Kenrick
157 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:10:34
Yes, spot-on, Ray.

Maybe if I'd studied psychology, I could understand what it is that drives this particularly annoying trait.

Eddie Tully
158 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:09:59
Michael/Ray. I used some poetic licence just to give an example of the way the general consensus seems to change on here. I think the word generally used for this is 'fickle'

Oh, I forgot to mention Naisy, he was absolutely crucified by most on here for a long time.

Michael Kenrick
159 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:14:02
So Eddie, back to the topic, and a simple question:

What in your opinion caused the game to change so dramatically after 30 mins or so?

Patrick Murphy
160 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:00:46
Eddie, I’m not sure where you would find a homogeneous group of people in any walk of life, never mind on a football forum.

Football is in reality a group of 22 grown-men chasing a pigs bladder around a field watched by thousands of mostly grown-men shouting and cajoling their favourites to victory – not very much sense in that if it were to be analysed truthfully.

However, most of the fun of the game happens away from the game itself, the debating about which players have been good, bad or indifferent, which have been the best teams throughout history etc etc. TW may have many Schizophrenics giving their opinions but to me that’s what makes it entertaining and often illuminating and educational and can be cathartic at times. Long may it continue on its dual-carriageway to glory.

Tony Abrahams
161 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:33:46
Some great posts on here, all about one of the most important things, in our lives, Everton FC.

Michael, I would definitely take that SSI, as a compliment. It should actually be the definition of the human race, never mind ToffeeWeb!

Eugene Ruane
162 Posted 13/03/2015 at 17:06:15
Like the dead old feller in 12 Angry Men, who throws Henry Fonda a 'not guilty' vote to keep the discussion going, I feel compelled to give Eddie Tully something similar.

I'm not saying he's right and someone else is wrong, but what he says definitely begs a couple of questions imo.

I accept Ray Roche's points about opinions coming from different people and David Barks, yes of course it doesn't make you crazy to describe the reality of changing weather.

But Eddie talks about the 'general consensus' and from that perspective, I think what he says has some validity.

The general consensus was RM was a genius and is now a twat .

Generally most players were great last year and yet many of them this year are 'useless, hopeless, idle twats' (or whatever).

"Yeah but we're just saying what we see, what's wrong with that?"

Nothing at all...but such drastic changes of opinion certainly place question over our judgement of players or manager - doesn't it?

I mean if our general opinion was 'he's boss, they're boss'' and in a year or so, that's become 'er...no I meant he's shite and they're shite', we're hardly entitled to say 'don't tell me about football lad, I know me stuff'

Certainly if we applied the same standards to ourselves we do to our manager/players, we'd be posting..

"I know fuck all me, one minute I'm telling you Martinez is brave and goes for it, a few months later I'm telling you he's a shit-house who is bottling it, I should go NOW!!!"

We can see what's happening on the field and of course respond to it, but much of what we read about players/manager goes waaaaay beyond describing a game.

Opinions like 'he's a shit-house, he's lost the plot, he's got no vision, he's a loser, he's lazy', etc are all fine with me, but if we were saying the opposite a year ago, Eddie has a point.

Generally speaking.

Eddie Tully
163 Posted 13/03/2015 at 16:55:14
Michael, I intend to watch the game again later as I recorded it, once I've done that I will hopefully be able to give you my definitive answer to your question.

The thinking behind my post @151, wasn't to insult ToffeeWeb by the way. I was merely pointing out how peoples opinions change over time, and to me, some are very fickle with regards to this.

I will wait to see how the rest of the season pans out before I condemn or condone Roberto's performance.

I'm as disappointed as anybody with our league results. However, I personally think we've had a lot of bad luck with injuries, and certain players haven't been performing at the top of their game, unlike last season.

So, Mr Martinez. Please beat The Barcodes on Sunday and take us to Warsaw. Maybe then we can move on as one.

Gracias!

Eddie Tully
164 Posted 13/03/2015 at 17:45:48
Thank you Eugene. May I say that your posts are generally very balanced and sometimes make me laugh out loud.

I must point out that I certainly don't think I'm a football expert, but I'm a glass half full type of chap and some of the negativity here / at Goodison is rather depressing.

Eddie Tully
165 Posted 13/03/2015 at 17:52:26
Patrick @160, I concur.
Darren Hind
166 Posted 13/03/2015 at 17:19:10
The difference this year has nothing to do with the movement of the front players. That they are becoming more and more static is born out of despair. It must be soul destroying to keep running into spaces for Jagielka, Coleman, Distin, McCarthy, Barry, Alcaraz, Mc Geady, Howard, Besic. because they will never see you in a million years. Stevie wonder has more vision than the lot of them put together. . . .No change here . . .they couldn't pass last season either

Deluofeu, Barkley, Mirallas,Coleman and to a lesser degree Ossie were at the heart of all the good performances last season because the picked the ball up and took players out of the game by going past them.

We suffered dull and insipid performances last year too, particularly when we were not taking opposition defenders on.

Unless you have top class passers of the ball (and we don't) the only way to break down two banks of four is to take the ball up to them and go past them.

Martinez has got the tools he just doesnt have the knowhow

Darren Hind
167 Posted 13/03/2015 at 18:05:38
"General consensus" ?

If we are doing well, the people who want Martinez as manager will come on and big him up . .if we are playing shite, those opposed to his appointment will knock him down.

Is that not the way with all supporters, of all clubs. on any forum/radio phone-in / alehouse. in the world . . .or is it just us who are schizophrenic ?

Colin Glassar
168 Posted 13/03/2015 at 18:17:17
I second that Phil. He needs quick witted, intelligent players who can change the tempo of the team. Barry and McCarthy can stop the opposition but we need creative players in and amongst them.

Btw, what the hell has happened to Ross? I know he tried yesterday but he's so off-pace, he looks like a stranger on the pitch.

Eugene Ruane
169 Posted 13/03/2015 at 18:09:07
Darren (166) - "t must be soul destroying to keep running into spaces for Jagielka, Coleman, Distin, McCarthy, Barry, Alcaraz, Mc Geady, Howard, Besic. because they will never see you in a million years"

'Keep running into spaces'!?

I have NO idea who (or what) you are watching.

Seriously, you know all those fellers at the match with purple faces (and what appears to be an ariel shot of Crewe Station on their foreheads) screaming "fucking moooooove!!!" - ever wonder what they're on about or who they're screaming at?

Eddie Tully
170 Posted 13/03/2015 at 18:26:12
Darren, do any other clubs boo the team when they're winning 3-1?

I would like to revise the schizophrenic tag.

It's more like Bi-Polar!

Colin Glassar
171 Posted 13/03/2015 at 18:28:57
Eddie, we are a rapidly declining tribe facing extinction. TW optimists, that is. But we must remain hopeful that we can salvage something out of this awful season. A top 10 place and a bit of silverware would be nice.
Darren Hind
172 Posted 13/03/2015 at 18:28:14
Hi Eugene

Early on in the season I saw that movement. I saw players buzzing around looking for an early through Ball . . .but it didnt come. Jagielka, Howard, Distin and co fucked about with it until either one of them panicked and hoofed it anyway, or they got caught in possession and found ourselves frantically back peddling

When people ask what wrong with Barkley/Mirallas/ Lukaku I often feel they are close to having their spirit broken.

Our tactics have been utterly brainless we try to play a passing game with players who cant/wont adapt. if you keep doing what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.

Just imagine if we had Aguero. His movement is as intelligent as I have seen, but do you really believe any of the players I mentioned would be good enough to get the max out of him ?

Its a matter of opinions Mate, but I think they would break his heart

Darren Hind
173 Posted 13/03/2015 at 18:45:12
Eddie,

You are peddling a myth, mate, and I suspect you know it. The crowd did not boo the players against QPR. They booed the tactics which saw (on more than one occasion) an Everton attack which ended up in the arms of our own goalkeeper.

QPR where absolutely there to batter that day and, like all supporters everywhere, we wanted to see Everton hand it to them.

Has there ever been a better opportunity to get that massive win we all find so satisfying?

I don't boo myself, but I felt the boos were richly deserved that day.

Eddie Tully
174 Posted 13/03/2015 at 19:51:32
Darren, I think that's where our opinions differ. I don't think the booing was deserved at 3-1 up.
Jay Woods
175 Posted 13/03/2015 at 20:33:24
Eddie, the brooding, baying crowd changed the course of the game last night and the world and his dog knows it. Now, you in your conceit may find the armchair experts on here to be very grating, and the fans in the stands likewise, but I am confident a number of them could do at least as bad a job at managing the team as Martinez has done this season, but at a fraction of the price.
Michael Kenrick
176 Posted 13/03/2015 at 20:44:32
I'm glad you made the connection between the QPR game and last night, Eddie. As you review the tape in search of an answer to my question, consider in both, the sequence of events:

Static, sideways passing going nowhere; crowd reacts with increasing volume; players respond... and the tempo, the pace, the directness of the game – all are transformed.

"Last night's result was down to the supporters saying, finally, enough is enough. I hope for nothing different in any of the remaining matches." — David Barks.

It's as it should be. I hope to hear plenty more of it whenever the performance shows signs of flagging... Power to the People!

Eddie Tully
177 Posted 13/03/2015 at 20:51:01
Funnily enough Jay, I'm just watching the game now. The turning point for me was at about 36 minutes.

Mirallas won a free kick, which Lukaku forced a save from, then there were a series of corners with 2 shots on target. The crowd then got behind the team, 2 minutes later Lukaku drove forward and boom, we scored.

So the way I see it, those passages of play just before we scored got the fans supporting, not the half an hour of abuse beforehand.

Gavin Johnson
178 Posted 13/03/2015 at 21:03:36
You can't please everyone and I'm sure they'll still be Roberto haters on here, even if we won a trophy. For me, he's got my complete support while we still winning in the Europa, and I take that stance because I don't have any fear of relegation.

If we play like we did in the second half against Newcastle, we'll easily beat them. Of course, we don't do anything easily, but I still expect us to put in a strong performance on Sunday. Again, I think the crowd will do their bit and be the 12th man if we start like we did against Kiev,

Eugene Ruane
179 Posted 13/03/2015 at 21:09:22
Don't usually bother with 'ifs' but it has been nagging away recently 'what if we'd have not thrown away the lead against Arsenal?' Obviously we'll never know and it's possible the answer is 'nothing.'

But I just get a feeling, had we not flung that game away... well, it just has an 'Oxford in reverse' feel.

Sid Logan
180 Posted 13/03/2015 at 21:06:35
I too am watching the recording of the game. It's something I always do because I can watch in a far more dispassionate and objective way than is possible, for me at least, when at the game.

My conclusions are in noarticular order:-

Garbutt needs to start making tackles and stopping crosses. He hardly made a tackle all game.

Mirallas received Lille in the way of decent balls all game.

Lukaku and Jags were immense. McCarthy and Naismith worked their socks off.

Barry was better than he's been for a good while.

Kone should play with Lukaku upfront.

Once we dumped the passing without purpose game we were miles better. We were attacking with 5 men in the final third!

I had the feeling that our direct play was a player decision and happened without any input form Martinez.

We need Stones back for Newcastle.

Barkley should lose his fear of giving the ball away and forget the suppression of his natural instincts. I'd rest him for a 2-3 games or give him cameo roles.

We miss the creative abilities of Pienaar and yes surprise suprise Osman!

Leighton Baines is not impressed with the Martinez doctrine.

Sid Logan
181 Posted 13/03/2015 at 21:20:43
Apologies for iPad typos - it's not my fault!
Eddie Tully
182 Posted 13/03/2015 at 21:18:44
Some of the best football I've ever seen at Goodison, Eugene. Until whatever minute they scored!

Eddie Tully
183 Posted 13/03/2015 at 21:22:13
Sid, looking at Leighton's body language, I thought the same. Could be wrong but he doesn't seem best pleased.
Steve Carse
184 Posted 14/03/2015 at 00:38:17
Eddie (163), you'll wait until the end of the season before condemning or condoning RM ! You mean you haven't seen enough this far to make a judgement??? You make Moyes weighing up a transfer target sound decisive.
Darren Hind
185 Posted 14/03/2015 at 04:53:27
I have watched all the EL games on the telly Eddie, but having been to all the league matches I do recognise there is a stark difference between "being there" and not. Sometimes you just have to be there. So I respect everything you are saying.

The thing is you also see and hear things on the box that you don't see at the game . .like the reactions of former and current players to the way we are going about things. . . Leighton Baines - "as a defender, if you can get Rom facing his own goal, you've got him where you want him, but if he is running at you, you know you're in trouble". Peter Reid was saying the same thing.

Martinez paid 28 million quid for Lukaku, he was to be "the difference" . . but Matchgoer and armchair fan alike, we all KNOW Lukaku cant play with his back to goal. The trouble is our build ups are brain numbingly slow, he has been forced to spend most of this season looking into his own half.

I'm a fan of possession football, there's nothing wrong with going back and starting again when nothing is "on" . . but our players don't even look, they often go back and start again when something IS on. That's what the crowd is sick of. it all becomes pointless.

Young Garbutt offered the overlap for an hour before he accepted he wasn't getting it, he knew he would see more of the ball if he stayed home and played pass the parcel - That (for me, at least) goes a long way to explaining why the form of Coleman and Baines seems to have fallen off the same ciff.

I agree with you.The incidents you refer to did change the game . . but most people seem to believe they only occurred because the players had been told in no uncertain terms that continually turning back and playing pointless passes is no longer acceptable.

There's not much wrong with our team. If we remove the straight jackets from our full backs and start playing balls into area's where Lukaku can fight for it (as Chelsea used to do with Drogba) The confidence of all three would rise because they would be doing what they are good at.

If we can get our full backs and Center forward to force the opposition to take the handbrake off the parked bus, we may see holes developing for Mirallas/ Barkley/ McCarthy to drive into.

If he could just force himself to take the risk, Roberto could soon be dreaming again

John Keating
186 Posted 14/03/2015 at 07:15:09
Eddie (#177) ItÂ’s obvious that you must have been the only person in the ground on Thursday night that does not accept the players changed that game after getting the fansÂ’ backs up.

Whether you are for or against MartinezÂ’s style of play, as the game went on, the crowd frustration grew. You could actually see the players have doubts about making sideways passes long before the time you mentioned.

Anyway, Eddie, you stick to your interpretation... but believe me, mate, youÂ’re 100% wrong.


Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.


About these ads

© ToffeeWeb