The stadium myth: new grounds won’t rescue your club – or your city

From a distance Everton’s new 52,000 seat home, a steel and glass bubble plopped on top of a sturdy brick base has the aspect of a giant escape pod ready for launch. The more buffed, dazzling, screen stuffed and hyperactive these new stadiums appear, the more they seem to embody not reinvestment in the communities they represent but liftoff from them.

Incredibly biased journalism — especially the description of the ground that has I would consider to be an amazing feat in engineering, considering how it’s been built on a dock?

Definitely a feat of engineering. Apparently the Uppr South Stand is as steep as they they could legally make it without breaking regulations.

The 4th Grace. Welcome to our city.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/apr/29/football-soccer-stadiums-everton-nfl

Call me paranoid but I don't think The Guardian likes us.

I wouldn’t use his paper to wipe with in any of the toilets 50 meters away. 🐀🐀💩💩💩😡😡

But this question had me thinking back to the newer US stadiums I've been in — and which Dan Meis's design inevitably draws on:

Are we traveling towards a world of blandly perfect stadium engineering, where every stadium looks and feels the same, and every fanbase is funneled towards the same set of game-day habits and enthusiasms?

Of course there's a list of key ingredients the new stadium must include, but at the same time, there are elements that make each stadium unique.

As far as it being some great feat of engineering, Tony, the construction elements were all pretty standard, I'm afraid. It was 50 years ago that I worked on a job where we built a huge embankment entirely out of sand pumped from the seabed. The Dutch have been doing it for even longer.

And dynamic compaction of that sand creates a superb foundation to build on — completely contrary to the garbage they drummed into every kid in school, based on a total myth in the Bible that says you can't build on sand.

The main premise seems to be that the traditional working class game has been taken over by global corporates and that is a bad thing. Unfortunately, that cat was let out of the bag with the creation of the Premier League… so, regardless of your view, it is too late to change course now.

The paranoid cynic in me feels that this is only an issue for this writer now that Everton are (belatedly) joining the party, with a chance to compete again. Could be wrong, though.

The writer's point is that new stadiums rarely bring prosperity to the cities or areas where they're built. But all the other examples he cites were built largely on public money -- local bonds and local taxes -- and generate little real return. Most of them do turn out to be more boondoggle than boon.

But I read somewhere that public money accounts for only 2% of the cost of BMD. This writer pounds away at our stadium without making that crucial distinction. And that's bad work.

As a football fanatic, it was the most confusing mix of emotions to have the Minnesota United stadium — one of, if not the nicest MLS stadium in the country — be built just steps from my home. A newish team to the top tier in America, pre-game parties at my place and a tipsy walk to and from the place to cheer on my local club.

Mind you, no American football teams have the history and feeling of community ownership seen throughout the world — and hence why our lack of passion for the sport means we still don't produce a national team that's competitive at World Cups, even if we're progressing — so our fan base was always going to be a good dose of hipsters with little knowledge of the sport and wealthy suburban families.

We fill the stadium most matches, and the supporters end does a decent job singing most of the match. But my point is the game here was always going to be a bit sanitized, and hence why I bleed Everton blue despite having a professional club a stone's throw away.

And so, despite all the positives, and as a local season ticket holder, if I could go back and do it all over, I'd have fought more to have them build the stadium somewhere else.

Why? Because, like the author said, economic regeneration from stadiums is a myth, always has been. It's done nothing for our community, aside from the jobs to build the stadium and a handful of low-paid concessions jobs 17 days a year. Sure, a couple pubs benefit on match day, but that's it.

Eventually some housing and a hotel and some restaurants will pop up, but nothing more and probably less than what would've occurred with smart urban planning not encumbered by trying to make our sleazy billionaire owner happy, since he bought the land around it and has stifled development at every turn that's not to his liking.

And like the author said, all it really does is enrich the owners who don't give two shits about us fans, who pay 3 times the cost of a beer to cheer on our average squad. Obviously every situation is different, as with Everton, the alternative was Goodison and there's no universe where it would be acceptable for the club not to exist. In Minnesota, it was build the stadium outside of the city or move to another state if somehow that couldn't happen.

But other than preserving the legacy of the club, and of course generating revenue to build the club in Everton's case, there's a lot not to like and a lot of bullshit served up by ownership that deserves criticism like much of what the author shared.

Mike G., that's a fair point about private financing, but our stadium was mostly built with private dollars, and I would've rather that important location been used for something else and that $25 million in public infrastructure money be spent elsewhere.

And it's also about being honest about what people should expect when these stadiums come along, because it's often not what it's cracked up to be.

A futuristic design surrounded by the magnificent original dock walls, with the hydraulic tower on the plaza about to be converted to a bar.

I always thought the design was clever. To me it looks like a ship facing towards the Irish Sea and the brick surroundings resemble the dock buildings common along the city waterfront. Historical reference and the future all in one. Re-development of the area will happen.

For different reasons, look at the transformation of Salford Quays near Manchester.

If you want bland stadiums that all look the same, think Middlesborough, Sunderland, Derby, Leicester and Southampton. Same stadium, different signage.

To the defense of Jesus, building a house directly on sand is generally not recommended as it can lead to structural issues due to the sand's instability and tendency to compress and shift. Sand, especially dry sand, has air bubbles that can compress under the weight of a house, causing uneven settling and potential damage. Additionally, sand can be susceptible to erosion and water movement, further destabilizing the foundation.

Don't question the prophet man, he's a blue.

Ask a supporter where he sits and you might get an answer along the lines of... Top Balcony, Gwladys Street end of the 'New Main Stand'... and we'll all know where he means. All the while forgetting that this 'New Main Stand' was started around the time The Beatles split up.

Yep, back then when you could still dig in your pocket and find a 12-sided threepenny bit, or a big copper penny dated 1843 with that young lass Victoria on the back... That's why we needed a new ground.

'Build it and they'll come' as is said; well, we have and, eventually, they will.

Another saying is 'If you can't find anything good to say, don't say nowt'. RS Media hack.

Albeit, our recent ownership/management and "know-how" are a very worrying 24 carat oxymoron to me.

Not given to anyone on suicide watch.

File under "paper for lousy chips"!

I am no engineer but going by this presentation I think you are correct. My head was spinning by the time I got 30 minutes into it.

The engineering starts about 12 minutes in.

John Sargent Lecture: Dock filling for the new Everton stadium project at Bramley-Moore Dock

As identified by posters above, since the advent of the Premier League, a number of things have happened – one of which is attendances have risen. Most new stadiums were built primarily to increase capacity (and especially that of premium seating). Everton is no different. At the same time, other events are being held at some stadiums – boxing, concerts etc, that bring much-needed revenue to both the clubs and the hosting city. Everton is no different.

Arguably Tottenham's new stadium is the pinnacle for the UK – with a price tag to justify that label. Even though they are in the less salubrious London Borough of Haringey, they have a huge premium offering, and a brewery within the stadium that can pump out 150k pints per match (especially when the Blues are in town). Chelsea will do something spectacular, and Arsenal are well established – all in London.

Everton had to strike a balance with their new stadium. Form over function, cost vs aesthetics. It was stated before work started that the finishing would be "mid-range" – managing expectations of a fanbase I don't think was particularly concerned.

There's been many bad examples. Derby's Pride Park, to keep costs down (in a project beset with corruption) simply lifted the design of Middlesborough's Riverside Stadium and have an almost identikit stadium in different colours.

I've not had the chance to see the Everton Stadium up close, but have spoken to plenty who've been to the test event. Transport and access issues aside (as they will surely be ameliorated), the overwhelming verdict is that what we have is a considerable upgrade, in almost every aspect. That's all that matters.

I always like to read from different media sources, regardless of their political leanings, as I prefer to stay open-minded.

But I fell out with The Guardian years ago when, along with their New York Times partner, they put national and international security at risk with their publication of the Snowden leaks.

Some would call it freedom of the press or freedom of speech… investigative journalism. Others would call it irresponsible. I understand the former, but I know my own view. They should have refrained and handed him in.

So I have no respect for anything that particular media publication has to say.

Back on point, when you get to visit the Everton Stadium, you won't help but be blown away with your first look as you enter through the dock walls. As much as Goodison has it's memories and unique charm that we will always remember, the new house is unique in its setting and magnificence.

Another thing I've mentioned, it's hard to think that, in the not too distant future, there will be a generation that only know Everton at Bramley-Moore Dock. Most people currently under the age of 5, I would say.

Here's to them building their own memories and adding to ours.

I also witnessed the creation of new islands in Maldives dredged from the coral.

All bog standard engineering and don't forget that BMD was filled into an enclosed space so even easier to 'build on sand' as it's restricted.

I also suspect that the major part of the dock infill is under the pitch where there are less loads to worry about.

The whole article is a bit weird. I agree with lots of it from a nostalgia point of view but it's just a really naive view of the world.

New stadiums aren't to blame for the ills of modern football. They are just part of the mechanics. And they might be one of the best bits.

I mean, if we could put a cap on everything in football: ticket prices, merchandise, player wages, transfer fees, TV rights, channel subscriptions, and artificially deflate and then hold the value generated by the game, then fans could pay less to watch football in a decrepit old stadium. Who wins and why?

And we're still getting more and more modern bridges, replacing the old ones, allowing more vehicle movements, and they still just go from side to side. What's the point?

Who reads or listens to their bullshit anyway?

When I drove up for the Arsenal match, I avoided the smart looking new Runcorn-Widnes crossing. To avoid the toll, I opted for what I know, the old Runcorn bridge.

No, the sly so-and-sos now charge you for that too!!

It's only £2.40.

She used to recycle Lidl carrier bags and it wasn't anything to do with the environment!!

The only real thing that comes through the piece is the lack of professionalism and the total cynicism of the author. A Manchester-based hatchet job that was as bitter as sour grapes. Full of throwaway comments based on what exactly?

The Premier League has changed football and its fans. As such, big money has attracted new owners with different aims and expectations of owning a Premier League club. The days of Goodison are gone, the days of owners like Bill Kenwright went with it. Change or die.

It's not a bland concrete stadium built in a Tesco car park in Kirkby. (If it was, I would probably agree with the author somewhat.) It's an iconic stadium, built with fans' input, in a place steeped in tradition; it's ours.

The author must, I assume, appreciate sex and travel...

All we need now is to start building a squad capable of matching these ambitions. It's all about the players now.

That's more like it, Robert, and you're right. Everything is in place now, just get it right where it matters. On the pitch.

Paul, back to my landlady. Being Italy, I was always dubious about her connections when I used to go and pay the rent (cash only). Her husband once got stopped for speeding and was found to be drink-driving.

A few phone calls and the police officers on duty were informed by their superiors that there had been some sort of mistake and he was let to go on his way. True story!!

Jonathan Liew is one of the worst. He openly admits he's not really interested (his own words) about teams outside of the Top 6.

So any club who shows any ambition to challenge the cartel are instantly belittled and laughed at.

I bet you this guy is a Red Shite.

You have some right tales to tell. 😂

As for Everton, their commercial and football business will be forced to bridge the gulf in professionalism that was allowed to exist. My own experience of the commercial end was a endearing joke; as for the football end, read the ToffeeWeb archives, which is beyond a joke. Fortunately, professional owners are in place and trial-and-error change will come.

More funds will become available with the new stadium and it will be properly commercially managed. The stadium company will be profitable within 5 years.

As for the football end, a whole reset is being attempted. Moyes has discovered he has not come back to the Everton of old. He really has not developed his management ability on his travels, reverting to Dycheball (inverted wingers, 4-4-2, hard work, waiting on the right connection attack, limited support play, but in fairness earlier substitutions which are hopefully positive rather than negative), when faced with accountability.

With the remnants of PSR still existing, we will get a few replacement squad players. It is not in Moyes's kitbag, the ability to manage big changes in playing staff. I expect him to be replaced at some stage next season.

So as always, Everton's progress is determined on the pitch and success there will contribute to the stadium, but the stadium will be able to stand alone.

The Docklands development will continue the development of Liverpool City into the new century. But we will always get those uniquely magical moments, like the in disguise Everton flare vendor who sold 10,000 red-coloured flares to Kopites, which went of blue when set off.

Nothing to see here.

Seems fair to judge him once he's got a decent group of players. That might take a while. Personally I think he's very likely to see out next season in full with us.

If they are not replaced this summer, the managers at most risk next season are

Postecoglou
Amorim
Potter
Hurzeler
Maresca

Moyes looks pretty safe to me.

If we had spent, like Brighton, £230M on a very talented side that finished 11th, I think we'd be disgusted not to make the Champions League places. Hurzeler will be very lucky to see out next season unless there is a sharp improvement

Jealous wannabe Marxists.

I will name just a few. Le Tissier, Ian Wright, Paul Merson, Zola, etc.

Some of the comments here are clearly from people who are at home with the Daily Mail and The Telegraph (may God forgive them) – and before you scream at me, I read The Times (oh, somebody is yelling already).

Victorian thoughts from a bygone age.

That went well for him, didn't it? File this one under another bitter red gobshite jealous as fuck we're moving into a top-notch arena.

'It was stated before work started that the finishing would be "mid-range" – managing expectations of a fanbase I don't think was particularly concerned.'

Was it?! I don't think any supporters would accept mediocrity. We had enough of that under Kenwright (and in my opinion, Philip Carter, in terms of club ambition).

This structure cost nearly £800M. Tottenham's just over a £1B – but it went over budget, is in London and is 10,000 seats bigger. I certainly hope we are not getting 'mid range'. False economy if so.

The Express somewhere along the way stopped being a centre-left paper and turned into something totally different.

As for the Daily Mail, I liken it to being preached to by your least favourite Aunty.

Aunty Eva Braun?

(Btw, every 'news' paper in Britain is owned or /run by hideous cunts and Private Eye is the only publication that will get you anywhere close to the truth).

Aunty Eva Braun?

(btw, EVERY 'news' paper in Britain is owned/run by hideous c**ts and Private Eye is the only publication that will get you anywhere close to the truth).

Sat level with our backline for a half, I appreciated those two like never before. They were unreal.

I do like Moyes but, on the wages and regime he is under, I expect more, Robert. Im do not see him as being other than a stabilising influence. I am particularly disappointed that he has not developed managerially on his travels and can't believe that he has adopted Dycheball.

The Stage 2 development beyond Moyes is essential and will be under TFG, if their form at Roma is anything to go by. The selection of that manager will be of their criteria and will fit into their strategic plan.

Moyes will survive the Summer, but I think there will be an aim of as little change as possible, but hopefully a step up in midfield playmaking and support play. But Moyes has to be more positive in tactics next season. He cannot resort to Dycheball only, as he is currently doing, with a spurt forward in the second half.

Stage 2 is dependent on TFG's time frame, though I think the pressure will be on when Everton move to the new stadium.

It could be that, in the face of change and accountability, Moyes has decided safety first is the best option for him, but he needs to show signs of being able to win games at the higher level, which he has not done yet and never has done. This demands a more positive driven attitude, than his "knife to a gunfight" thinking. Which he has effectively raised again recently.

Just middle-class people who've moved to the right with age.

Anybody know how true that is?

We don't know how much Moyes is on either. Unless certain posters have seen his contract. We will sign more than a couple of squad players too.

Alcaraz surely can't have signed a deal. He is a Flamengo player on loan until we buy him, or not.

Their owners live in France and wanted everyone to vote to come out of Europe (Brexit), very similar to other big businesses, eg, Dyson, he moved to Singapore.

Regarding the football stadiums, the UK is full of new stadiums, 95% of them have under-performing or downright poor teams.

My thoughts have always been, build a team first, new
ground later or what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Until we have players that can at least approach the opposition's in skill, we can't expect to turn up and win those big games.

I did think that but I guess it could be pre-dated to 1 July.

The UK hasn't left Europe. It left the EU. Apologies, I get a bit pedantic on stuff like that. There are roughly 50 nations in Europe, 27 in the EU. I know what you are getting at, but I'm a self-confessed Geography geek.

Ryan, a combination of multiple factors. A club in continuous decline over decades of mismanagement. This led to not being able to attract the best players. And then tactics by various managers.

John @52 (again). I've always been of the opinion that, as a football club, if you get it right on the pitch, the rest will follow. Sir Alex Ferguson's Manchester United are a good example.

Looks we are going to have to do it in reverse.

Neither is true, Andrew.

John #52,

In our case, we had to build a new stadium to increase income to allow us to build a better team. We couldn't afford to do it the other way round.

Up to you as to which is the chicken and which is the egg.

The Old Lady is 132 years young, a bit crumbling and, thanks to many manager changes, is no longer the fortress it once was. Keeping it going is not really a viable option.

We have home games sold out every week, a season-ticket waiting list. We needed a new home, and Dan Meis has designed a stadium to replicate Goodison Park.

The only bug bear for me is the access and egress. I am sure the council didn't think it would actually happen so didn't plan. As someone else mentioned, councils do tend to be reactive.

What really stuffed us was Putin invading Ukraine; Moshri lost his backer and cheap steel. Meanwhile, Usmanov is still sitting happily laughing at us.

But that ground has been covered and raked over quite a few times.

Anyway UTFT and in May 2026 a Wembley appearance.

But against their peers, they're shit. 😂

Back to the news and talk of shit. As most who listen to me on here know, I find my most reliable source my dogs, confiding in them in the build up to matches and debating managerial appointments.

With Ipswich coming up, she curled one off in the centre circle of one of the pitches on the park this morning. I don't know what to make of that.

Goodison was way behind in generating commercial revenue from corporates and the new stadium will bring us new and welcome avenues of income.

That article doesn't address that. (Although I stopped reading half way through, it was that shite!)

But I'll bet you if we had a fire sale this summer, every one of those players, including Harrison, Doucoure, Keane etc, would get contracts with lower-table Premier League clubs. They're just not good enough if we expect to win against the Top 8 by skill rather than luck.

On that note — Soucek? No thanks!

- NewProfile
Was Aaron one of those Liverpool fans who got duped into buying a repackaged blue flare on Sunday?

- straff
hahahaha!

- KratosBeThyName
Highlight of your bitter season

- SergeantDetritus
Nah, that was your faces when Tarkowski equalised ;-)

- Harrogatespa
It was pretty funny and much more measured than firing red flares at the Liver building and setting light to Dixie Dean's statue, or urinating on wreaths laid there to commemorate Evertonians who've passed on

Never heard of him before. I hope not to hear of him again.

You could pay Moyes £10M per week and it wouldn't change anything. The manager's wage doesn't make the players better. Fundamentally, we need better players. It is literally that simple.

At Roma, TFG haven't done anything to suggest they are intent on sporting success. All they have done is achieve much the same as before… but on a much lower budget.

The glass ceiling at Everton has almost nothing to do with the manager and almost everything to do with spending power and access (or not) to Champions League quality players.

Moyes is untried as regards being given a budget, Moshiri's largesses would have played out something the same with him as Manager and he would struggle with a larger squad and definitely playing in Multi Competitions.

He is a good average Manager at best, mid table with the odd fling in a Ueafa competition, which inevitably would result in a lower Premier League placing.

Nice guy, honourable, honest man, who has managed to keep his Management salary going over the years.I would say this is achievement in itself as long as you turn a blind eye to competing in Competitions.

A Club like Everton should be competing in multi competitions and always should have been.

There's an insult on almost every line, I think it's fair to say The Guardian doesn't like us.

He got one thing right, the new stadium alone wont bring us success, it's the quality of the lads on the pitch that may do that.

So Moyes glass ceiling (which he does have in my view) isn’t what will hold us back in the next couple of years.

Overwhelmingly our ceiling is driven by money and (the closely related point of) player quality.

Seems not all bridges are engineered the same.

Danny #41, I know you're a lot younger than me and since I was a teenager reading the broadsheet Express It has never been centre left, always a tory rag.

That's not to say things aren't happening now, or that things will be reshaped over the next 2-5 years when cashflow is rolling in.

The little metal bridge wasn't strong enough for pedestrians, but handles traffic. That said, you could have walked up to great Howard street, and avoided it.

"Until we have players that can at least approach the oppositions in skill we can't expect to turn up and win those big games."

Exactly, if we don't have attacking players how can a manager employ attacking tactics? Our forwards are DCL, often labelled a Championship player at best when not injured, Broja can't get off the treatment table either, and Beto and Chermiti also Championship level.

Then we have the much maligned Doucoure and Harrison and a few others our fans think are just shit.

And the same fans expect the manager to turn this shower of shit into world beaters?

Sure it would be more popular than Arsenals “Visit Rawanda”!!

Aside from a perhaps provocative headline placed above a photo of Bramley-Moore Dock, I didn’t find anything overtly negative about Everton – or favourable toward the ‘big six’ or the RS. The article’s main point, as I read it, is that while new stadiums may excite fans with the promise of better teams, they’re justified more broadly by claims they’ll regenerate deprived areas. But in practice, that regeneration tends to be limited – and often non-existent. The article notes this is especially true in the US, where federal law allows local governments to issue tax-exempt bonds to finance such projects.

The Guardian has a US edition, and I think this piece was primarily aimed at that audience. Everton’s stadium was likely referenced simply because it’s the next major project due to open, offering a current example to frame the argument.

According to the Guardian, Aaron Timms lives in New York and writes about the ‘business of soccer’. That suggests he’s approaching the issue from a North American perspective – not as some southern-based RS media fanboy.

I was impressed with the stadium and it is unique in design.

It is only just over 2 miles from Goodison and has an L5 postcode. I don't know which area it constitutes, but L5 to me includes the Everton, Kirkdale and Vauxhall areas, so I hardly think it's a million miles away from our roots.

Once the reality that we couldn't realistically redevelop Goodison kicked in, I don't know what the alternative would have been.

It's 30 years too late after the failed Kings Dock and Kirkby proposals.

Way back then, if we were going to move, I suggested the land of the old Speke airport. Okay, partly biased as it's were I originate from, but for the purists, it sits within the city boundaries, it has direct access to the motorway network, national and Mersey rail in South Parkway and an international airport. Plenty of land for parking too.

It might not have sat well with the traditional north end support base, but it would have made sense to me.

Just as we made Goodison an iconic stadium in her day, this is one. Big capital? Maybe so, but that is the nature of the game and we have to move with it to keep up. We did in the 60s as the famed Mersey Millionaires. It won't change our hearts or souls.

It's not the first time we've moved. Technically, this will be our 4th ground.

1878. The originals.

I'm going to disagree with Ray and say that John's post is an absolute moanfest from someone who seems stuck in the past and wants to stay there.

If you don't move with the times you stagnate and eventually die!

not being rude, but I am old( ish)

you may be on your mobile as well., but for the love of whatever, please try using paragraphs.

I really can't be arsed reading your post as it is just a wall of words.

The biggest catastrophe was the day that weasel Kenwright got his hands on the club.

We’ve never really recovered

The Everton FC Shareholders Association in autumn 2024 stated there were 34,000 on the waiting list.

In one way, I agree with your comment as I am also stuck in the past and always dreamed of total renovation of Goodison.

If the new stadium was a giant 65k-seater stadium for the same cost, however unlikely that may seem, I would be much more enthusiastic as the increased capacity could have helped keep costs down for fans — bigger numbers at lower prices.

Secondly, Ray, we have to accept that the "plan" wasn't to keep costs down, and won't be the plan going forward. We can't plead for low prices at the cost of advancement financially and professionally.

It's a sign of the times and there's no way we can stop it. You have to accept change or bail out; harsh but true.

And to want to remain how we are and where we are, to me, is selfish. It's fine for those of us who've been lucky enough to see us win titles and trophies but the younger supporters who haven't deserve hope and a sustainable successful future.

They are the future – not us!

My preference for the name is 'Merseyside Stadium'; if not then 'Everton Stadium'.

The South Stand could be known from the start as 'Everton Wall' (Stand) and this should be on the tickets as a matter of course. The West Stand, maybe a river reference; the East Stand maybe Regent Road or even a nod to Goodison.

As a Bootle ex pat, the North Stand could be the Bootle Stand… only joking!! But I hope you get the gist of my sentiments. There's no time to waste.

The Everton Stadium is good with me.

Brian @93. I have said I would like the stands named Goodison, St Domingo's, Prince Rupert and St Luke's. Don't name them after former players, managers or chairmen. We can do that with lounges or even on the concourses.

I noted at Chelsea on Saturday, the bar I went to get served at was name "Roberto's Bar". Others were named after players and people associated with the club.

I don't think we should have Bill's Bar, even though it may help with the queues at half time.

We can't choose the name, I know, but I like Waterfront Stadium, or simply Bramley-Moore Dock.

Apparently still a split ownership between Manchester City Council and Manchester City. They paid half the cost to convert it into a football stadium, but still a steal for their reported £20M contribution.

West Ham however got theirs for about a pound. Wild speculation as I don't know, but they got it on the cheap, with the restrictions that came with it, making it the soulless stadium it is.

I take your points, they are well researched. I do feel that mismanagement of players, whether by recruitment, contracts and management of them at the club, has reduced quality.

Quality reduction is via lack of measurement, poor service level agreements between departments at Everton, because of no accountability, and self self-serving structure oriented to self-preservation rather than real deliverable performance.

TFG will be a quality management-oriented regime, Toyota was one.of the first companies to implement Total Quality Managenent, which was the basis of Japanese industrial expansion. I don't think Moyes is up to such management and he has regressed in the face of it.

The seats in the standing areas need to be locked in the up position to increase capacity. This is due to safety requirements in case of emergency evacuation.

Now this worries me because this has been on my mind for a long while now:

Robert Tressell: ‘At Roma, TFG haven't done anything to suggest they are intent on sporting success. All they have done is achieve much the same as before… but on a much lower budget’.

I, too, am a tad worried that these mighty Texan capitalists who we keep getting told on here are top-drawer mighty Texan capitalists with oodles of top-drawer capitalist expertise and experience (who we should bless our cotton socks for) see us in terms of what those mighty Texan capitalists love most of all $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. They will be happy to see us solid in Moyes-land while the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ flood in.

I suppose the first real litmus paper test will be how much money they will cough up to revitalise a team that needs as much revitalisation as the area around the new ground. If they sell Branthwaite (or as the jarring new term that has started to circulate has it: ‘Branners’) with a little wedge of add on for the kitty then Robert is absolutely onto something. We have been reassured that mighty Yank corporate business is boss, so let’s see what happens shall we.

Why are so many of you lot going nuts over an article penned by Yank Aaron Timms whose field is economic policy (not the ‘business of soccer’ in particular) and has been an analyst at Make it Moo since 2019. Just relax, we have nothing to worry about. All AT is doing is writing about the economics of the new stadium from the point of view of mighty Yank corporate business capitalism in just the same frame of mind as the Freakins bought our club … hang on, holy shit, oh shite, Jesus Christ, alarm bells, alarm bells, oh shite …

If anyone wants to give AT a call or send him a message you can get his number and email address as well as a reassuring treasure trove of information about him to show just how qualified this Yank is to write about a ground in a city in another country (AT loves Benny Hill, Hyacinth, and PMQ):

https://rocketreach.co/aaron-timms-email_6962622

I will be with my daughter on 18 May outside the ground, no tickets, but we intend to enjoy the occasion. Fanzone I suppose initially and see what happens.

And now we've arrived in the Bramley-Moore Dock,
And all them flash judies on the pierhead do flock.
The barrel's run dry and our five quid advance,
And I guess it's high time for to git up and dance.

Link

I find it bizarre – I'm being generous – that when the club had the opportunity to build a new stadium from scratch, it elected to do so on an undersized plot, resulting on one stand being tiny and landlocked for expansion.

Personally, I think the novelty factor will fade pretty fast. I have always been dubious about the location, which I regard as a nice idea in theory only. Winter will be no fun down there.

We don't do it for recognition. We do it because it's in our blood and our birthright.

“I also suspect that the major part of the dock infill is under the pitch where there are less loads to worry about.”

Correct. Part of the ongoing maintenance plan for the stadium is to resurface the pitch as it settles. Parts of the concourse are also include in the settlement plan.

The stands are on piles driven down through the sand into the sandstone.

Coupled with the fan zone experience and cycle lane, we will be in top shape to attract plenty of tourists.

I don't think the council could have done anything less to enable us.

Refer Robert on Roma

Robert's statement is true that Roma have achieved the same on a lesser budget. Like Everton, they where in financial difficulties, maybe not to the same extent, since they weren't building a new stadium.

They have been challenging in European Competition, though had not been progressing beyond 6th place for Champions League qualification. They fell foul of Uefa FFP rules, as have Juventius, AC Milan and Inter Milan.

They seem to be heading in the right direction as regards the Serie A Financial Adequacy Criteria Rules (their PSR equivalent),but the FFP Rules have giveb them transfer problems, the same as the other mentioned clubs. They bring in players on free transfers and on loan to avoid the FFP sanction of a Transfer Ban.

The solution is to qualify for Champions League Income, which is a possibility as they are currently 5th in Series A and there is a possiblity of qualification. A new stadium is at the planning stage.

FC Cannes is mid-table in the French National 3 league showing strong home form. For players, they rely heavily on their academy, as their finances improve. A past academy success was Zinedine Zidane.

Overall, I would say some solid progress, which Evertonians have had past good dreams about…

I reckon that Moyes is under pressure. He needs to win a few games.

They have a new stadium being built, with current estimations being ready for 2028. Capacity of 55,000, compared to the 80,000 of the Stadio Olimpico they currently share with Lazio.

The 'for' article will appear at a future date.

Most new stadiums are bland, particularly when empty, though I'm pretty sure the same would have been said about Archibald Leitch had he ever been allowed to design a complete stadium with modern engineering.

Completely agree about the lack of expandability – the club has painted itself into a corner for 200 years at this location and, if it was going to move to a car-unfriendly location, then it needed to be at the centre of all other transport hubs – which it patently is not.

As it is, we will find ourselves back where we started in a very short time.

It's not too late to sort out the transportation links to the Everton Stadium, it's just a shame it wasn't considered in parallel to the stadium being built.

I don't believe that a modern club can work without a DoF or equivalent who ensures standardisation in quality throughout the club and takes all of the grunt work out of transfers from the Head Coach.

Of course the Head Coach and DoF would work closely but I believe the day of the manager has gone. The typical Head Coach now has zero managerial ability and for them to try to manage large areas of club operation now would be a disaster. I believe that Everton are trying to fit Moyes in though by defining the DoF role to give Moyes more power than a Head Coach.

The days of Head Coaches making such vast amounts of money should be consigned to the past; remember who pays for it.

I've never really got how the two work separately but together for the club, if that makes sense? 🤔

To my mind, the manager should identify players he wants and the DOF should try and sign them.

That may be simplistic but makes sense in my mind.

A new stadium doesn't always go hand in hand with progress on the pitch. Think Arsenal, Spurs, Sunderland, Derby et alia. I remember Arsenal groups complaining that the Emirates, because of its high cost, was actually stifling their progress as a football club.

I said on a recent post that, Branthwaite and Pickford excepted, Everton's players played with obvious inadequacies. They are loanees and lower-priced signings. I picked Mykolenko and Doucoure as obvious examples, but could have picked any of a dozen players. This summer's clearout and the new signings we attract and can afford will determine our future.

I am not optimistic by nature, but feel that, unless this close season's incomings and outgoings are not done well, we could still be in the relegation mix next season. I read in today's i Paper that Moyes is in charge of this process, so we have gone back to the old style of one-man management that prevailed 20 years ago.

I hope you, David Moyes, can keep our two stars and find some creative midfield talent and at least one decent striker.

The DoF will go out and find players that meet the wants. It works like a consultancy process.

The DoF / Sporting Director has a wider remit. The academy strategy, the U21s and U18s, the female team. The link with the board.

The head coach (manager) gets on with coaching and managing the first team.

I agree with Martin. I don't think old school Moyes will sit comfortably under that structure. I guess it may be a case of he bites the bullet or who blinks first?

I doubt if Moyes will blink first if he is being paid the alledged £10-12M per year.

Money was the reason he stayed so long last time — and also the reason he went to Old Trafford!

My ballot application was unsuccessful!

The Harlech it is then – hope they've stocked up on the Guinness!

That's what Everton were paying Carlo Ancelotti.

Why do you believe such obvious nonsense?

I wouldn't dismiss anything Dave A says as nonsense. Having had the pleasure to meet him and being in regular contact with his son, Tony, I've learned more about Everton and football than I thought I knew. I'm a novice in comparison.

Depending on what we believe, he is reported to be on potentially £10-12M a year including bonuses. That's actually a pay cut when you consider he reportedly was on over £13M a year by the time he left Everton in 2013 and add inflation to that.

He's done well out of Everton and football considering his CV doesn't scream success.

He’s only here for another 2 years.

He has a short term objective of ending perennial relegation fights on a modest budget.

He’s good at that. And is likely to leave us in decent shape after two years - by which time the finances will have stabilised and we will be able to compete for players with the likes of Palace and Bournemouth etc but probs not the current richest 8 clubs.

The DoF will oversee longer term development- probably on a 3 to 5 year plan. A key part of this will be recruiting 14 to 16 year olds who will only be ready to debut after Moyes has gone. This is our best chance of signing Champions League quality players at the moment.

I can’t see Moyes being under any pressure whatsoever from TFG is we are sitting above 12th during his tenure. Top 10 will be treated as success. Europe would be treated as massive over achievement.

It won't take much to spark the debate between the dreamers (me) and the Moyesists (if that is a word), such is the divisive gorge his re-appointment created.

I genuinely hope he over achieves before he leaves, starting next season.

In no way would the manager of Everton in 2012 be on 13m a year. Be realistic.

Let’s all think before we press send!

And apparently Moyes was taking home over a 10th of Everton’s turnover!?

Come on let’s be serious

My salary can increase by 30% of my annual base depending on performance and hitting objectives.

With win bonuses target, avoiding relegation etc, I'm sure it can creep up.

I always try to check. Perfect? No. But I rarely dismiss others' views as nonsense, even if I challenge them. Yours included.

According to this article, Mourinho was no 1 on 14.8 million Euros at Real Madrid.

The top paid manager of an English club was Wenger at 9m Euros, followed by Ferguson on 8m Euros and Mancini on 5.9m Euros.

That's how I read his post?

Not sure how true that is but there's sites on Internet that suggest that?

https://www.givemesport.com/premier-league-managers-salary/

Moyes's 2½-year contract is worth £12.5 million, not his yearly salary.

And Danny, he was on £5 million yearly previously.

I personally don't care what a manager or player get's paid, as long as they perform for the benefit of Everton.

Depending on which sources you trust he was allegedly on £257K a week. Times that by 52. But again take into account bonuses and the figure will be higher.

I really don't care, it's the way of the modern game. As Robert Tressell often points out, if you want the best, you pay for it. Moyes isn't the best, but we pay a premium for his services.

We have a match on Saturday, which is my main focus. Forty years since Sheedy's double free kick against Ipswich and the 1878s have something special lined up.

It's hard to believe that after Saturday, we will have one remaining match at Goodison, but it's time to respect the past and look to the future.

In between, I'm looking forward to the day out at Fulham away and meeting up with a few of the regulars near Putney Bridge station.

= £3.4m

Like I say, I'm not bothered, but an interesting conversation.

Where have you heard that Ryan mate?

Yes, always went to the Harlech, Chepstow and the Brick. 👍🍻

I think it is a great-looking stadium and will be awesome and noisy when full of Evertonians. My only concern is how they will all get home.

More or less the same way as we all get home from Goodison Roger.

Ryan#134

Apparently Jennifer Aniston and Cameron Diaz were fighting over me last week.

I'll, miss those places Paul.

I think for many, the centre of gravity will be town, which is fine with me as my in built human Sat Nav defaults to Lime Street.

The Bramley Moore Pub, although a gold mine, will likely be overwhelmed. There are others along the way back. My favourite will probably become the 3 Graces, opposite the Pier Head, recently acquired by blue owners.

Doctor Duncan's at the back of St George's Hall is always a good one and Brian Murray, who used to post frequents the Lock Up, just off Dale Street. Owned by a family of blues from County Road and play Everton music. You can even grab the mike apparently!

Match day habits will change. Not so much for the likes of me, and I suppose it will depend on everyone's approach and egress routes to the new stadium.

So he goes after their neighbours' wonderful new stadium to vent his spite and bitterness. Oh the irony — aren't we supposed to be the 'bitters'?

Total nonsense from The Guardian, which for some reason, has got it in for Everton. Maybe they could write an article explaining why? Now that might even be interesting…

Interesting proposed plans for their planned new stadium. They aren't leaving St James' Park as such. More changing the footprint.

Not too dissimilar to what Tottenham did on the site of White Hart Lane.

He sent me this link:

Link

In hindsight and with foresight, we could have done something similar on the site of Goodison. It would have meant buying up a lot of the houses, probably those terraced streets on Bullens Road and the Gwladys Street school, maybe building a new school on Stanley Park?

I'm no architect, but it would have been feasible. Water under the bridge and we now have a new stadium to be proud of, with a big reputation to live up to.

New stadiums don't necessarily guarantee success on the pitch. Examples: Sunderland, Middlesborough, Spurs, Southampton, Leicester etc etc.

New stadiums should be designed by the world's best Architects who have given us Hamburg Philharmonic, Sydney Opera House and such icons. Often controversial at the time with huge cost-overruns but look at them now!

Herzog and de Meuron are brilliant architects but of course their fees make the eyes water. The new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock has been built, however, and I've been waiting for years to leave Goodison, even if it will be a very sad occasion.

The downside: the surroundings and the infrastructure with the dock location is little short of a disaster. Okay, the Titanic Hotel is a start but where are the transport facilities? Build a tram or an overhead railway from the city centre. Surprise, surprise we had both before. They benefited everybody not just the dockers. They were tourist attractions too.

Food for thought!