A voice of reasonable expectation

"I told you he'd be shite .... and I'm happy to say he is. I will now keep repeating this for the next three years ad nauseam."

We need to be patient and supportive.

Good luck Ronnie lad!

What I think we can say, is that the signs point to we may be in a far better position come August, which gives us a realistic chance of challenging the clubs mentioned.

Lets say we have reason to be optimistic.

Remember what happened after Martinez's first season when fans were getting over excited about the return of the School of Science and our record points haul? And look how that worked out.

Quiet optimism is the order of the day for me. We look to be taking the right steps towards steady improvements after years of neglect and stagnation, but let's not get carried away before we have even signed a new manager, never mind a player or seen an artists impression of a stadium.

Quote of the day "Our rightful place is not amongst the current elite if we haven't earnt it."

There is no denying the statement made by getting in Koeman and to be fair all the other big teams had terrible years too and are also rebuilding with new manager and heaps of cash.

I personally have begun to believe our motto has found its voice again and remain excited to see how this summer evolves. Just by going for Koeman we have bucked the trend of all previous Everton managers we recruited. If the players we go for follow suit why not believe we can challenge top 4?

I have believed with the right management we have had the players to do it for years.. add 4 more quality players and anything less than being in the mix would be disappointing.

Sorry but the above sounds a little Moyes'esq...

I can't see the future, but I fully understand the call for caution. However, if the new regime's ambitions are at last matching those of the supporters, isn't it incumbent upon us to get behind them on and off the pitch?

The supporters should be treated as an asset not as a liability, even if their expectations are not yet merited, we all understand that what happens on the pitch is the most important thing and consistent failure there will result in everything crashing down to earth.

What we probably won't see, which has blighted us in the past, is the team running out of steam in the second-half of the season because Everton FC were unable to make an astute addition to the squad at an important juncture.

I agree that the likes of Man City, Chelsea and Man United will make whatever additions to their squads that they think necessary and that Everton FC are even now, nowhere near those three clubs in terms of spending power.

It's that other tranche of clubs that we should be aiming to join, not in a hit and miss way due to having a one-off 'wonder' season but over a sustained period of time. Not in a 'hang on to their coat tails' fashion but genuinely competing with them for players and points.

I genuinely believe that is what the new people are about and they must realise the difficulty of the task at hand and the pitfalls that await them, but for the moment unless events prove otherwise, I will continue to dream of having the Everton FC I grew up with back in the relative big-time, not yet in the super club bunch of clubs but back in a position to truly compete for points and prizes with most of the division for the first time in a very long time.

Let us enjoy the moment, the euphoria will soon dissipate and we will return to our reality ie we have shit loads of work to do.

We will have a fine manager and we have an investor who is investing properly (or so all the signs suggest). It won't happen overnight but we should be confident and we should not accept the limitations which others are only too happy to impose on us.

Koeman has a bigger job than Martinez had, Plus as said above, the playing field has changed a lot in 3 seasons.

All -'All' yeah, Martinez had to do was tweak the team Moyes left behind, which he seemed to do...for 1 season.

Koeman has to do a, persuading to stay job, a pruning job and rebuilding job. This mightn't happen right away. But unless it all turns - The usual phrase would be 'Mike Walker-esque' but this has to be now amended to 'Walker/Martinez-esque'. We will have to be circumspect in our judgement Re actual placings Vs overall direction.

Cool heads needs by all.

I would say RM did more than a little tweaking.

Koeman comes into a side that is far more equipped than RM had it coming in.

If we improve in the league and play as above, then that is a start. Hopefully the biggest reason I am more optimistic for the coming season is the incoming of Mr. Moshiri and his apparent enthusiasm fo his role and the gradual removal of you know who from the club.

I think we will start moving upwards over the coming seasons.

How we do in the league is open to so many variables, that it is almost impossible to predict where we will finish. Otherwise, the bookies'd be skint!

I can remember us in the beginning of the Sixties, getting together players that would become a great side. Yet the manager who recruited most of those players got the sack.

John Moores who's money funded buying those players was ruthless in his ambition and brought in another manager and within a year or two, we'd won the league, playing some of the finest football I've seen from an Everton team. I don't think we won another Championship until the end of that decade but we were always a major force in English football.

If Manchester City, Man Utd Chelsea and perhaps Arsenal cannot not now guarantee that they will win the League, we certainly can't.

What I think the difference is now for us, is that we can expect to be there or thereabouts within the next few years.

We'll have to pay a premium, I think, to attract a better standard of player than some we have now, as they would probably want to go to a club that has a more successful recent past than us.

So, I want to see our club and our players show a certain class. That we never give in on the football pitch. We won't win them all by any atretch of the imagination, but I'd hope to see any team that play us, go away thinking that was one hard match.

I'd hope we'd develop an attractive style of football to accompany that winning attitude.

Off the pitch, I'd hope to see our club speak and act with the class that was always associated with EFC, and a ruthless determination to WIN.

So far, Farhad Moshiri has got me thinking that this is the way he wants our club to go.

So, no, I don't expect our club to finish in the top four from where we are now. What I see is that it might happen this year or might not.

What I think (hope) is that we will now be relentless in the aim to get into the European places regularly, and build from there.

I think Patrick has nailed it with this paragraph

" I can't see the future but I very much understand the call for caution. However, if the new regime's ambitions are at last matching those of the supporters; isn't it encumbent on us to get behind them, on and off the pitch."

"Only the best is good enough"...a good motto to try and live up to.

And it's ours...

Top 6 or maybe 7 in the league.
At least one decent cup run (quarters or beyond).
A fitter, hungrier looking team less prone to throwing away points from winning positions.
The continued development of some of our top, young talent.
The integration of a new team with evident sign of growth and potential, positive momentum.

Realistically the competition has never been fiercer and it will take time for Koeman to make this team his own and get them in a place to challenge the top 4. Ranieri's Leicester was a wonderful fairytale who showed what is possible but few it was magical because it was so rare and as such not a helpful expectation to burden a team with.

In your post you say Moshiri hasn't done anything yet, sorry but I beg to differ. Do you really believe that Koeman would have even looked at us if Moshiri hadn't led the negotiations. We have also heard the Mayor say he thinks we will be in a new ground in 3 years. So for me without shouting from the rooftops for me he has already had a massive impact.

Me neither, because none of that has happened.

David (5) - 'There is no denying the statement made by getting in Koeman.'

Erm..yes there is some denying, because right now (nb: no statement from Everton FC or Koeman, fuck-all on the OS) we haven't got him.

Sorry but it's only when I see that twatty pic and read/hear that quote (or similar tripe) that the deal is done.

The response of one of Pavlov's blues?

Absolutely.

By the way, if/when it is official, the OP makes a lot of sense (but will be ignored in preference of angry, repetitive venting).

The first, from the Telegraph, puts forward the position that Koeman's appointment may just show a minor shift in the PL power league i.e. that plucky little Everton may now have the financial clout to eat from the top table, where they should be dining. Check out the following link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/06/08/ronald-koeman-appointment-will-be-seen-as-day-Everton-banished-u/

The second article, a short opinion piece from football365, gives a more conservative view of what Everton fans' expectations should be. Perhaps a timely reminder that last season we only just avoided a relegation scrap. No doubt we are looking at a new Era under Moshiri's guidance (and financial support) but next season may be more about regaining lost ground rather than title talk.
http://www.football365.com/news/welcome-to-Everton-the-perfect-blank-canvas

If he doesn't...argh, can't/don't want to/ think about it

This aligned with having a fair few bob to spend for a change gives me the feel good factor and hope for a more competitive season (which can't be too much to ask after last 2 seasons). My hope is we sign good young energetic players for the spine of the team who want to play for the team and not themselves.

I think a good target for next season is a top 6 challenge and good runs in the cups with the hope to improve each year after. It should be an exciting summer anyway COYB.

I think there's still a huge misunderstanding on ToffeeWeb about what Martinez was doing wrong. He wasn't simply a complete idiot (charlatan, clown etc.) who was doing everything wrong and ruining all the players, of course he wasn't. He was a bizarrely stubborn coach who put himself on the wrong side of all the fine margins that affect results.

There is work to be done, but it is in the psychology and attitude of the players that the biggest difference needs to be made. Once they're told that clean sheets and work rate matter, once they're drilled on set pieces at both ends and once they're way, way fitter, then the balance shifts and we should achieve an awful lot more points next season than last. Two years ago we'd just achieved 72pts, that isn't suddenly unattainable because of what's happened since.

Look how many points we lost from winning positions. That tells us two things; one, we already have a team capable of getting into winning positions in Premier League matches and two, what's required to significantly increase our points total is a question of intelligence in dealing with fine margins, not overall class.

We should expect and demand a top 6 season, even without significant recruitment, because that's what our current squad is capable of, and Martinez was sacked for not delivering it. We should demand to do well in the cups, because we know we're good enough to reach the semi-finals of both.

ToffeeWeb seems to have shifted from despair, doom and gloom to enthusiastic optimism in the space of about 48 hours. the slightly boring truth is that we should expect to be about the 4th-6th best team in the country, because that's what we've been in recent history, with this squad. Like any league, our final position will be dependent not just on how good we are, but how our rivals will do. There are so many different variables with all the teams that you could make a case for us finishing below or above pretty much any of the top 8 from last year.

Leicester to similar thinking - "Fuck THAT shit!"

I simply don't buy into the idea that we're so bad right now. I've outlined what the difference needs to be above, and it isn't a complete shift in class and ability, it's in the fine margins that get results.

3 days ago I was being told to cheer up, now I'm told not to jump the gun... its hard to know what rules we should follow to manage our expectations.

Southampton are the new Everton plucky club with limited resources punching consistently above its' weight.

My other concern is exactly what is Moshiri putting into the club? Everyone seems to be very excited by £100m plus sales, but in reality isn't that what the budget was anyway because of the huge increase in TV money. I accept that there will inevitably be investment or guarantees to cover the obscene wages I have seen quoted, but in reality all we will be doing is investing our increased income. So let's not get too excited until we have actually seen the colour of the guy's money.

I belong to the party that believes that Moshiri is an advanced raiding party for an Usmanov take over. Now that I will get excited about.

I think this is a case of, signed, sealed, delivered and......almost yours.

(you sound like the advertising juror in 12 Angry Men)

Well..um..firstly, not jumping the gun isn't the opposite of miserable - I mean one could be a cheery or miserable gun-jumper.

As for 'rules', there aren't any - my advice (nb: for Evertonians used to years of disappointment and bad decision-making) is simply not to get carried away until deals are actually done.

But as this is Everton, I reserve the right to poo-poo talk about his plans and where we'll finish, until I see the twatty scarf pic and read the carefully-worded bullshit quote.

(the quote that will no doubt launch 300+ posts along the lines "I really think he gets Everton")

We have had 25 years of winding down expectations, and that 'let's get to 40 points' type of outlook excuses every single person at the club before the season even starts. The OP is quite correct, Leicester have blown every excuse out of the water. It wasn't a one-off, Spurs nearly won the title as well. Every team can afford £15-20m players now. The primary difference is the manager & attitude of the players and the club itself. Staying in the League is no longer good enough for even the likes of Watford - who parted ways with their manager.

The reputed £6-7m Koeman will be trousering won't give him time for excuses. He'll be backed in the transfer market and he will be expected to deliver C.L. football. He won't have time for excuses, and nor should he. If he doesn't deliver he will be sacked. I'm sure he's been told what is expected. Welcome to the new Everton people.

Still, we got Chang and Kitbag...

Wow so you think anything other than delivering Champions league football is a minimum for keeping his job. Now I know we have underperformed for a while but that expectation is quite frankly ridiculous. Mourhino and Guardiola and Conte and Wenger will have a lot more to spend than Koeman, and you expect him to out perform them or face the sack.

http://www.Evertonfc.com/content/club/careers/vacancies

How simple would it be for him now to return to Saints ?
How popular would he be at Saints ?
How damaged would Saints dressing room be ?
How strong would his bargaining position be for any contract negotiations with Saints ?
TBH, none of that really matters at a "car boot sale" club like Saints, 'cos they exist to sell on every season. Saints very conveniently forget that Judas was the one who sought the 30 pieces of silver. So when they sell out, it's Saints who are the real Judas' here.

Everton would have no problem recruiting any of the other candidates that we were in contact with.

Prior to the current TV deal kicking in, in 13/14 season, the RS' Commercial income eclipsed our entire turnover for the last set of comparable accounts - a shockingly bad situation.

I remember back in 1973 when it was actually announced on Radio 4's Today programme (in the news not the sports round up) that "Everton are expected to announce the appointment of Don Revie as their new manager today."

Also that we are in negotiations with several players, whether that is solely the players from are club or not, we'll have to wait and see.

Well, different people differing expectations but I think Mr Moshiri will set objectives and they will be to see a radical improvement this coming season, in the fitness, and effectiveness of the squad. I think he will take into account that Spurs, Man U, Man City, Chelsea, even Liverpool and Leicester have more developed squads than us.

It will depend on who stays and who Koeman can bring in, and how quickly the team gels, on how we get on.

I never thought we were good enough last season to finish in the top four and had a view, that we would do well to get into the top[ six or maybe seventh.

Seeing as Liverpool with a bigger squad and better players finished eighth and Chelsea only had 3 points better than us, who had a team that began to implode after the new year.

So my view is that he will be given 3 years and the progress we make will be agreed beforehand. My guess is that, by then, we will be expected to be challenging for a regular top four top six team.

Could I suggest that us TW'ers make a joint application ?
'Cos between us we know absolutely fuckin everything !

I believe the two words 'Leicester City' allow every fan to dream of Everton being back in the big time - and why not with i) a new billionaire owner and ii) a new manager (who's a vast improvement on the last).

As long as the team is fit, tactics right and the players give everything for the shirt, no reasonable fan will complain. However, that doesn't mean we can't aim high. RK has shown he can bring in decent players and if they gel (yes its an if) then why can't we aim for CL. Won't be easy but no point in just aiming for top half or the usual 'get to 40 points first' bollocks, we're not West Brom ffs.

If Leicester can win the league and West Ham finish 6th then I'd expect us to be challenging for top 6 at the very least. May not make it and if we don't we can go through the reasons at seasons end but the last thing people should be saying now is 'don't expect much' - why the hell not?

Clearly, I am only going by the reported fees and salaries involved, but just think for a moment about what it's cost to recruit Koeman.

Sacking Martinez & his staff, paying compensation to Southampton for Koeman & his staff plus the £6-7m annual salary and we must be getting close to £20m! Now let's say we do splash £100m net this summer, do you think the new owner will be happy with 8th or even 6th? No chance.

There is also the possibility that all these fees and transfer funds are a smokescreen, and we will revert back to loaning half our first team and playing out the next 40 years at GP, with Chang & Kitbag still going strong after a 50 year sponsorship deal! I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that scenario will play out after all the failures & lies we've had to endure over the past 30 years.

This time though, I truly believe the information we are being given is realistic.

They were good players before, they will be again( surely with the right guidance) , but whoever takes charge, Koeman to Unsworth or anyone in between or outside it has to be progress. I expect progress.

If Leicester can upset the status quo and go from relegation candidates to champions, no reason why we can't go from lower mid table to top four.

Time to start thinking big( bigger than previously) , and hopefully it'll come to fruition. (Disclaimer: thinking bigger does not guarantee success, this post does not contain nuts/ambition, any traces of nuts/ambition is purely coincidental, or thinking bigger).

What I have seen is genuine excitement at the seemingly serious change of culture at the club, and the feeling that there is a plan to improve not only in the short term, but also over the long term; to turn us into a club that self-sustainingly expects to challenge at the top end of the table all the time.

There can only be 1 champion, 3 other UCL spots, 3 Europa spots every year, so not every team gets what they want every year. If we get a Europa spot for season 1, that would be a good improvement, not great, but good. All this fear that we've become the impatient wolves we scorn about other clubs can only be compared against when we fail to reach even that target. Or the next, etc.

Ambition is important. Realism is our fallback. No point playing the game and not wanting to win. No point sulking too much over missed targets either.

Fuck sentiment, loyalty, history and 'people's clubs', we are about to play 'the big boys'game. Managers, coaches, players and doctors (of whatever sex) are merely the tools of the trade. Hired and just as easily fired if they fail to perform to the required level.

I'm anticipating a 6/7th finish next season but I really hope Mosh is setting the standard higher. Just like most of us would accept a Goodison re-vamp (sentimentality), I'm willing him to take Everton to the waterfront. And soon.

PS Fucking off Kenwright might earn him even more brownie points.

Go Mosher !

"I agree with the article but will wait to see how fans react when the club fail to reach the heights of our increased expectations."

'WHEN' not 'IF'? You are a true Evertonian, and I salute you!

And fair play to you for not knowing much about Liverpool FC, but if you'd rather have their squad than ours then me and you aren't going to agree on much. They've got two or three players who'd get in our side.

With a better manager, an apparently tough fitness coach and money for better reinforcements, there's reason to be quietly optimistic.

The only difference for me is that for the first time in 20+ years, the Everton manager will be under pressure to deliver. I suspect Moshiri won't take too kindly to poor form. Something the last two managers didn't have and they both stagnated as a result.

Quiet optimism for me, with a wish for people to stand firm after the first dropping of points!

Not since the TGT fucked off to Man United have I read such a concerted effort to dampen down expectations.

What I do feel is that Everton's squad has massive ]instant potential' for several reasons:-

1. The best squads are a mix of youth and experience.
2. The best squads tend to perform well in nor reaction to a period of negativity or adversity
3. Player for player, Everton's squad if it stays together, plus one or two key additions is right up there with the best.
4. The whole psyche of the team, as individuals and a group was out of step. The chemistry imbalance as highlighted by Leighton was a fundamental root criticism that really touched a nerve with Roberto which was why he reacted, stupidly, as he did.

The response and recovery mode really could be surprisingly quick, or it could take some time. Either way the future looks good and the manager deserves support and patience in fair measure.

The glass half full in me thinks that we are in for an interesting ride. Coupled with the different approaches and various scenarios happening within the Premier League there is no doubt this could be Everton's year, or anybody's! COYB

What I do feel is that Everton's squad has massive ]instant potential' for several reasons:-

1. The best squads are a mix of youth and experience.
2. The best squads tend to perform well in nor reaction to a period of negativity or adversity
3. Player for player, Everton's squad if it stays together, plus one or two key additions is right up there with the best.
4. The whole psyche of the team, as individuals and a group was out of step. The chemistry imbalance as highlighted by Leighton was a fundamental root criticism that really touched a nerve with Roberto which was why he reacted, stupidly, as he did.

The response and recovery mode really could be surprisingly quick, or it could take some time. Either way the future looks good and the manager deserves support and patience in fair measure.

The glass half full in me thinks that we are in for an interesting ride. Coupled with the different approaches and various scenarios happening within the Premier League there is no doubt this could be Everton's year, or anybody's! COYB

The delay in sealing the deal for Koeman - or at least the poor stage management in its announcement - has Kenwright written all over it and has taken away much of the excitement of the appointment of a new manager .

Mess and muddle has been the constant companion of BK's reign and it will take more than contracts for crocks and a few flags outside Goodison to convince me things are about to change anytime soon.

Moshiri may have a few bob to throw around but his PR technique positively stinks !

As for Liverpool and my knowledge you might be right, I don't know a lot about them but they seemed to batter us the other week, as they regularly did under Moyes; and have done on many occasions over the past god knows how long. I certainly don't want their squad rather than ours, I didn't say they had all better players than ours (though I wouldn't mind some of them in ours, I said they had a more developed squad than ours. I want to see ours improve and this will happen but so, I think will all others above us.

I do think they have a better and more settled squad than us but this likely to change (for both teams) in ther transfer window. How those changes work out, we will have to wait and see.

My optimism, is that Ronald Koeman will work on the players who remain after he loses whoever he's going to lose and brings in his choice of players.

My view is that may well take time to gel, so I don't necessarily see him, if our team comes 7th or 8th this coming season, failing my expectations. If he gets our tream higher than that, I'll be delighted.

But in my humble opinion, to expect Everton to come in the top six this year, after trying to resurrect the shambles of the team that showed up in the last couple of months and expecyting new players to automatically gel into a team, is over optimistic.

If he fails his value will surely diminish. I think it is brave of him to take this risk.

Also, there's various comments above about the, for want of a word, "irrationality", of emulating Leicester in the season to come.

WHY?

A team of bog standard alleged no-marks have just played for ten whole months in a way that made every other "big" club, stuffed full of grasping players/agents as they are, look rank.

Emulating that mind-set and performance will do for me, and we all now know that it's do-able.

No more "Plucky Little Everton" please.

Having said that I still think that having got rid of the Martinez factor we will be in the mix.

Unfortunately the mix will involve 8 or 9 teams so consistency will be the key for the league and that is where I have faith in Koeman.

As Leicester proved last year team spirit and hard work will usually overcome skill and complacency so lets get the team spirit. fitness and Goodison roar going and we might even surprise some of our own.

What utter lily livered bullshit !

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.
Seems that you got as far as the "Nil" and gave up. Your mild mannered, apologist and plucky thinking has won us fuck all for over 20 years. Clearly, this forelock tugging, downcast eyes, cap clapped to the chest mindset just begs for failure !

Neville Southall or Wretched Wright ?
Graeme Sharp or James Beatme ?

So shove it up your chocolate starfish !

That sounds nice, but it's a weird sentence if truth be told. Yes, spirit and hard work will usually overcome a useless old bunch of shite, but that's not what happened. Spirit, hard work, a clear plan, some excellent recruitment, and some luck overcame loads of money spent on players and managers.

And it's not what usually happens. Usually, the money wins out. Or at least what that money buys you wins out.

Winning the league isn't about following Leicester. It's about following every team who ever put together the best side in a given year.

Why can't we be as good as the others? It's all in the head!

Clubs have been trying this approach ever since Sunderland showed the way in the forties - and Everton certainly relied on it during the first decade of the Moores years.

It often works but there is no guarantee as the spending of the new money is more vital than its garnering. That's where managers come in. Everton are said to be throwing twice the salary at Koeman as was paid to Martinez. Muddled thinking in my view because the chosen candidate has obviously 'been bought' at any price and it will be a great disappointment if he is not twice as good at the job. Not difficult, methinks.

But all the nonsense surrounding this appointment will soon be forgotten as players are signed and parade their skills -or lack of them if they are not of a far higher quality than the majority signed by his predecessor.

As stated previously, a 'top third' finish would be a reasonable and attainable first season finish if only to restore our club to the days of the Dour One. Anything better will be gratefully accepted.

Bar the last couple of weeks we were playing some good stuff, dominating teams but couldn't close out games. With greater mental, and physical, toughness we could go a long way next season. His choice of new players to improve the squad will be crucial of course.