Everton 3 - 4 Stoke City
Romelu Lukaku turned in a magnificent performance and scored two goals but again ended up on the losing side
Everton twice came from behind and were on course for a huge victory but conceded two late goals, including a controversial stoppage time penalty, to lose a barnstorming festive encounter at Goodison Park.
Gerard Deulofeu's close-range finish had put the Blues on top for the first time in the game, adding to two equalisers from Romelu Lukaku that had cancelled out Xherdan Shaqiri's first goals for Stoke but Roberto Martinez's side remained too open in defence in the final 10 minutes and paid the price as Joselu levelled again and John Stones was the victim of more injustice at the hands of Mark Clattenburg. Marko Arnautovic rammed home a penalty after the defender had erroneously been adjudged to have fouled the Austrian.
Martinez had made changes from Boxing Day, with Brendan Galloway and Arouna Kone coming back into the side at the expense of Leighton Baines and Kevin Mirallas, James McCarthy returning in place of Tom Cleverley and Gerard Deulofeu replacing Aaron Lennon. The latter two players were absent from the squad entirely, a decision Martinez explained away as "protecting them" following their inolvement in the win at Newcastle two days ago.
His opposite number, Mark Hughes, went with the team that had beaten Manchester United on Boxing Day but both teams made early forays forward that hinted at the rollercoaster contest that would unfold. Ross Barkley had the first real shot of the game in the 10th minute with a wicked shot that might have been heading for the far corner but it took a vital deflection off a defender and flew behind.
Two minutes later, Arnautovic whipped a shot narrowly past the far post after quick footwork by Bojan Krkic had put him in while Lukaku sailed a shot over from distance with Ryan Shawcross backing off in front of him.
Stoke's early threat manifested itself in a move that carved the Blues open with a quarter of an hour gone, however, and Arnautovic touched Bojan's pass on for Shaqiri to slot home.
Everton were level seven minutes later, though, with an equally well-crafted goal. Barkley teased the Stoke defence before squaring it to McCarthy and he rolled a simple pass to Lukaku who was wide open in front of goal and couldn't miss.
That flurry of action sparked the Blues into a better period of play and Barkley raced away on the counter-attack before back-heeling nicely for Galloway but the defender could only drag a left-footed shot wide.
Coleman then went down in the penalty area under Erik Pieters's challenge but referee Clattenburg only awarded a goal kick – a decison that would anger Martinez further in the context of the award of a spot kick to the visitors at the end of the game – and Deulofeu was booked shortly before half time for simulation after he had wasted another counter-attacking opportunity with a heavy touch as he was about to enter the Stoke penalty area.
Everton had the measure of Stoke as the game approached half time but they were caught completely cold by a ball that dissected their defence and Shaqiri dinked an lob that drifted over Tim Howard and stunned Goodison into silence as he handed the visitors a half-time lead against the run of play.
Cleverley's turn and blocked shot in the area was the first chance of the second half as the Blues searched for a way back into the match but a combination of Howard and Funes Mori had to close down Glenn Johnson on the byline as he beat Cleverley at the byline for Stoke who remained dangerous coming forward.
The Blues were forced to be patient in their probing and prodding at a very well-drilled Stoke defence and Kone fired a rare shot disappointingly over on the hour mark but they were rewarded in the 64th minute with a second equaliser. Lukaku was picked out brilliantly by Cleverley's superb ball over the top and after regaining his balance, the Belgian tucked a right-foot shot past Jack Butland and into the far corner.
That was to be Cleverley's last piece of action as the substitute went off for Steven Naismith and the Scot came agonisingly close to putting Everton ahead almost immediately but his goalbound shot in front of goal took a crucial deflection and flew wide.
Everton maintained their intensity in laudable fashion, though, and were ahead a few minutes later as Barkley latched onto Lukaku's pass and squared it to Deulofeu who converted from a yard out to make it 3-2.
The home side remained too open in the closing stages, however, and when Arnautovic sent a difficult ball across the six-yard box, Howard couldn't get any purchase with his fist and substitute Joselu smashed in a first-time shot to level things up again.
And Arnautovic was involved again as Stoke opened Everton's defence up for a final time and the Austrian went down as Stones stretched for the ball. Clattenburg hesitated and, perhaps at the prompting of his assistant who was on the other side the pitch, pointed to the spot with the defender adamant he had got his studs on the ball.
Arnautovic slipped in taking the spot kick but still managed to hammer it down the centre and Stoke left Goodison having plundered the points, leaving the Goodison faithful ruing another hatful of conceded goals and a second successive home defeat, one that drops them back into the bottom half of the Premier League table.
Full coverage: ToffeeWeb Match Report
Reader Comments (298)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 28/12/2015 at 14:52:37
3 Posted 28/12/2015 at 15:19:46
That said, would have liked to see Cleverly start you'd think he'd be full of confidence after Newcastle.
4 Posted 28/12/2015 at 15:51:43
5 Posted 28/12/2015 at 15:55:34
Everton well in it, but Kudos to Stoke for two exquisite goals.
More to come in the 2nd half, I fancy... could go any which way.
6 Posted 28/12/2015 at 15:56:26
7 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:12:25
Mystified why Lennon and Mirallas are not on the bench, 4 central midfielders and no width.
8 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:52:58
9 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:54:08
Just a bummer the final result...
What lessons were learnt today, I wonder..?
10 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:55:05
But at least the team has learned its lesson.
11 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:56:17
12 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:56:24
Clattenburg is the worst ref in the prem.
13 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:58:01
14 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:58:56
15 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:59:05
16 Posted 28/12/2015 at 16:59:16
How about getting in someone who can organise a defence you fuckin idiot.
A total waste of a season because he's a hard faced prick who can't see what's right in front of his face.
I've backed this balloon so far but it's getting ridiculous now. 3 at home and we get beat.
Sort it Bobby or fuck off!!!!!
17 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:00:56
18 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:02:08
19 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:02:57
20 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:04:38
Think you may be spending too much time on live forum.
21 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:05:19
Three-two up and we play as open as the mouth of the Mersey! Unfathomable ! Why rush back Macca? and Howard ? Did he actually make a save? Stones...the most over-rated defender in the world.
Sack Martinez, sell Stones.
22 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:05:21
23 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:06:20
All this good attacking play counts for nothing if we can't do the basics. We really are just a charity case and its painful to watch. Martinez knows nothing about setting up a team to defend. Iv'e seen enough. Martinez out!
24 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:06:21
You know what our inept useless board are like - just as bloody clueless as Martinez
They will be happy with mid table, maybe. a Wembley trip and next years sky money !
Nothing will change
25 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:07:54
26 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:08:35
Who the feck is our defensive coach! Sack him now! Martinez is not learning and we will finish between ten and thirteenth in the league. Anyone moaning at lukaku now! Very good team, wrong manager! Moyes would have us higher in the league! Let four goals in at home against stoke! A new low!
27 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:08:39
28 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:08:41
29 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:08:42
Don't be too downhearted guys, that was a great game of football and we didn't get much in the way of luck. Clattenburg had a good game first half, then got worse as the game went on. I thought it was a pen at first, but Stones definitely got the ball, what more can we do?????
Thought Barkley was great, Cleverley had another really good game, closed down so well and looked for forward passes all the time, his pass for Lukaku's second was wonderful. Lukaku was out of this world, Deloufeu was a manace and Barry was top drawer again. Thought the defence did pretty well, Mori and Stones were winning most battles. Not too much you could do about their first 2 goals which where very well crafted, 3rd was yet another clanger by Howard and then the pen wasn't a pen. That for me is another 3 points lost by Howard.
30 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:09:50
31 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:09:56
32 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:10:10
33 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:10:20
34 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:11:24
36 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:11:59
37 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:12:39
All the good football will slowly disappear as confidence drops away with needless loss of points.
The thing is did anybody seriously believe we would shut up shop and win 3-2. I suspect no more than 10% of TW
38 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:12:50
Martinez sort our defending for Fuck Sake, or find someone who can !!
41 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:14:01
See you at Wembley
I'd love to beat them in the final !
42 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:16:51
43 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:17:38
44 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:19:05
I still can't believe Clattenberg's performance. Coleman should have had a penalty, and Arnautovic shouldn't have been on the field to score the penalty at the end after three fouls I counted that should have been carded.
45 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:19:16
This is still a very very young side, built by Martinez, it's only going to get better and better, don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
46 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:19:41
When we took the lead, the senior players should have roused the team in safety-first tactics - instead Naismith almost gifts a goal with an unnecessary back-pass. We have no strategy in these situations, and to repeat myself, no leaders. We are entering the second half of the season and we've won 3 games at home. Some deluded fans talk of Europe. Forget it and instead, think about avoiding relegation.
The sad thing about this season is the league is wide open and under a half-decent manager we would have been in the top 4.
47 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:19:50
48 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:19:51
If you fight back to take the lead in the last quarter of any game against any opponents and fail to take even a point from that game, you are going to finish in the lower portions of the table and will be turned over good style by the teams with class players, Stoke by the way have the mixture about right, good solid defenders for the most part and clever hard-working forwards, in my opinion they are better than the Leicester City team, we are not.
New owners, will, hopefully come in pretty damn soon and hopefully they will bring in a proper manager who understands that defending is as important as attacking - imagine where we would be if Lukaku hadn't have scored as many goals as he has?
49 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:20:16
"Lesson learnt Jay? Clattenburg is the worst ref in the prem."
Of COURSE! Clattenburg is the reason we conceded 4 goals against a Stoke side who, until today, had scored just 6 goals away from home in their previous 9 games on the road this season.
Me? I enjoyed the match as much as any I've seen this season. The Beeb is offering it at this best PL game this season.
As I said, the bummer is the result. What we COULD learn to do better is game management at critical times. That's just one thing we could work on to improve our win ratio, our points tally and more crucially, our league position.
50 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:20:30
And it's not like we are so good going forward that we don't need to defend. When your watching your team go 3-2 up at home after coming from behind twice to then go and lose is inexcusable. The fact that most of us knew we wouldn't hold out is enough evidence to suggest that it's a consistent problem. We have good players and the best striker in the league. That's why we score goals. Martinez has one job and it is to organize us not to concede goals. Final straw for me. Get rid!
51 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:21:55
52 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:22:31
53 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:24:44
Football is about balance, about doing everything well enough to get the result. We've specialised in an extreme and it isn't the extreme that gets results.
The scary thing is that Martinez doesn't seem to realise this. He doesn't seem to prioritise results.
54 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:25:21
55 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:28:42
56 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:29:00
As for the match what can you say when it's completely obvious to all supporter what the problems are. Martinez has not got a clue how to defend they must spend the whole training sessions play tippy tappy football.
Now his substitutes, takes off a midfeild player and puts on a forward when it's 2-2...If Cleverly was injured he should have brought on Besic, Kone a total waste of a shirt must have lost the ball dozens of times if the defenders made as many mistakes as the forwards we would be relegated.
Howard has no idea when to come off his line. Nice bloke but we will never have a rock solid defence with him in goal. He can be blamed for two of the goals.
I'm so disappointed I'm going for a lie down in a dark room.
57 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:30:45
The stat about RM that I fear most is that his teams always finish lower in the league year on year. I think we will finish lower than 11th this year. If we don't then change, he will take us down the following year.
58 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:31:19
Lukaku must be wondering how many goals he has to score to stop our defense letting him down. He's our best player by a mile but he really needs to be in a better side with a solid defense.
There is no point in scoring three if we concede four. Howard doesn't need dropping he needs to be out of the club altogether because he's just stinking the place up. For every save he makes he'll make another mistake that leads to another stupid goal being conceded. He has no consistency outside of being consistently rubbish.
It's been 13 years since Everton sacked a manager but It's time to sack one now. We are making no progress at all. If we want to keep our top players come next summer RM has to be gone and a manager with know how needs to be in his place.
59 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:31:23
60 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:31:34
61 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:32:01
When he leaves in the summer, and we watch Kone lead the line, just remember how you all defended the manager.
62 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:32:08
63 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:32:15
Why on earth would you not think we can only get better and better????? Come on, let's be reasonable here. A top drawer goalie would make a massive difference immediately but the rest of the team are going to get better and they have been getting better. I'm optimistic, we are on the verge of something special, now is not the time to panic.
64 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:35:00
Phenomenal performance to score three goals from open play against such a good defensive and organised team as Stoke shows that we have tremendous potential. We need to improve our defensive intensity in the key moments....
Must think we all button up the back!!!
66 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:35:39
67 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:36:00
68 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:36:33
I almost don't care anymore when we lose as in my mind I'm hoping it's another step to him being shown the door
69 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:37:08
The first three goals were down to Howard and bad defending and the third to Clutterfuck who really hates us because he is a RS supporter. But the dodgy penalty would count for nothing if we had not let in the first three soft goals.
70 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:38:33
Robbie go lie down and take your pill mate
I'm a glass half full myself but you are way off
He has to go, we've good players but they are very badly coached and I mean very badly
72 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:40:08
This could be Wigan all over again. Top players leaving and falling down the league over the next three years. Get a new owner in and new manager in before its to late!
73 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:40:09
It was a great game but to concede 4 goals at home against anyone let alone a Stoke side that have scored 6 away all season and haven't even got a recognised centre forward is disgraceful.
Stoke played exactly the same team as Saturday we made numerous changes which also questions our fitness.
74 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:41:15
75 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:42:06
Martinez quote from Swansea, "if the opposition score 3 we can score 4"
This is the sign of a manager whom is only managing half a team, neglecting the defense, maybe he should receive only half his massive salary?
76 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:42:53
77 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:44:44
Nothing else to add, we can all see the mistakes and poor performances every week except the man who picks the team, changed my mind about not going to the game, saw some very good play, all undone by stupid errors, why did they revert to that tippy tappy nonsense after we went 3-2 up, ridiculous, not going to enjoy this wedding I'm going to.
Only Everton can destroy a fan like this.
78 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:44:46
I just think we're close to being a good side and capable of going far with this set of lads but the basics at the back are letting us down, along with our complete inability to cross the ball over the first man at nearly every dead ball. It's unforgivable that these highly paid professionals can't do it whether Martinez has them practising or not. Defending them, we are a shambles. In fact, our defending altogether is a shambles.
I want Roberto to sort it because I think attacking wise, we look pretty good but he doesn't seem to be able to do anything about it. I hope he gets someone in to help or finds the right formula but if he doesn't, he has to go.
79 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:45:11
80 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:47:27
This is appalling atrocious Wigan-essays ever ding and it just proves the organization of Martinez first season was mostly down to the way Moyes left it.
This is now Robero Martinez Everton Football Club.
He has brought the Wigan mentality of non defending with him, did Wigan not once lose a game 9-1 at Tottenham under Martinez??
He has rectified nothing with the defensive side of things, fuck that keeper off, he's total shite, Stones is grossly overpriced, great on the ball yes, great at defending NO.
Give Martinez til the end of January then move him on.
81 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:47:46
82 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:48:07
I read where the squad had a meeting with Martinez and Jones last week over his tactics and openness, he's never going to change, enough is enough.
83 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:48:16
Since the creation of the Premier League, which our club was instrumental in establishing believing we as a top side were entitled to more, we've been completely left behind. No plan, no vision, no finance, no ambition.
The current board are satisfied so long as our Prem status is maintained and Moyes proven as more than capable in this respect. Thought he was above it in the end, but we know how that went.
Up and coming players know we're nothing but a proving ground and, if competent enough, a decent shop window. They know they'll win nothing at Everton. Wrong decade.
And so RM will still be here come January and so will the young and talented core to the squad....until the summer. Wholesale changes needed, starting with the board. Happy new year Blues.
84 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:49:32
That aside guess what Roberto - your bloody tactics, defending policy, team selections, substitutions and the shite that comes out of your mouth is making me furious and these results are unacceptable !!!!
85 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:52:56
86 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:52:58
87 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:55:32
88 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:56:40
89 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:57:35
I really do wonder what the players make of all this. I know they're on huge money etc but they are professionals and they understand the game. They must question these tactics sooner or later. Maybe Lukaku needs to be the figurehead. What the hell could Martinez or Kenwright do if he had a few words. At the moment they'd be buggered without him.
Are we about to see another mutiny like last year when our style changed for about 8 games to get us out of trouble... Here's hoping.
90 Posted 28/12/2015 at 17:59:31
Lukaku isn't playing for Everton at this stage. I think he is putting himself in the shop window. His big mouth of an agent can go to all the top clubs and say 'Look what Lukaku is capable of, even in a poorly playing team.'
Stones put in a transfer request last summer, let's not forget that. I'm not having a go at him. I just feel that he will look to put one in again in the summer first chance he gets. Why should he stay at a club where his confidence is being ground down and he is starting to look like a shadow of the player he really is.
Deulofeu will be gone within the next eighteen months. He will have more than shown enough at that stage to warrant Barcelona or some other club coming in for him.
92 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:01:16
He has to be gone by the end of this year, if we are to have any chance albeit a slim chance of rescuing one of the most frustrating seasons I can ever remember.
All the stars lined up in Everton's favour, keeping Barkley, Stones and Lukaku, seeing Man Utd and Chelsea struggle for form and we screwed it up good style even with a centre-forward who is and has been scoring for fun all season.
Roberto's job is to win football matches, that's it nothing else, six wins at the halfway stage is not good enough another six wins in the second-half of the season will likely see us hovering around mid-table not good enough with the talent at his disposal.
93 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:01:21
94 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:03:43
After today I think it might well be complete.
Thank God Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle are where they are or we would definitely be in the shit this season. Just praying we get to 40 points. We are more than likely safe this season but I think Martinez will complete plate the job next season.
How any Evertonian can justify this charlatan remaining at the Club... well they must be Phenomenally deluded.
We have learned absolutely nothing from the end of his first season in charge.
The fact that we play, for parts of the game, more open football is immaterial. Football is a game of results and we are not delivering in any way shape or form.
We are talking about the same issues now that we were this time last season, last month, last week.
The football I see is horrendous, might be good for the neutral but not for Evertonians.
Last Christmas, I called repeatedly for Martinez's sacking, this year I call for exactly the same.
95 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:03:46
Buck stops with the manager
Fact is he'll never be sacked so we have to put up with this crap blues
96 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:04:05
We are a fucking joke at home under this fella. Get shut now and go for Hughes or Rodgers.
97 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:04:23
99 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:05:36
100 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:08:39
I thought he was caught cold for their 1st, he gave a simple pass away which led to their 2nd and then conceded a last-minute penalty which IMO was poor defending. He didn't need to dive in, he should have shown him the line and ushered him out. Diving in meant the ref has a decision to make and it went against us.
Added to that was his general poor passing and overall play. Hopefully Jags back in the team soon will have an impact god, it needs too!!
101 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:11:29
102 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:11:59
As for Martinez being a golden goose - if he is poultry he is a definite turkey.
104 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:16:11
And if those who justifiably criticise yet another defeat / draw from the jaws of victory are 'keyboard warriors' and 'haters' does that make those who defend him Roberto Lickers?
I'm an Evertonian and clap the players off but the applause ain't for this manager. if you don't believe me ask your guide dog.
Your further posts regarding the talent available only undermines rather than strengthens your point about the manager. Mid table mediocrity with that group of players - including an on fire striker - is a disgrace, particularly in a season like this one.
Lap it up all you like but it's unpalatable to me.
105 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:17:38
106 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:18:25
107 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:18:51
108 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:18:53
111 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:20:44
This Everton team is playing the best football I can remember Everton playing in my lifetime. I think saying we can't defend is too easy. Blaming bad luck is also too easy, but - I am going to say a Martinezism here - we deserve more points than we have. Stoke now have 26 points from their last 13 games, they are a good team.
We will get our rub of the green soon enough, unfortunately I think top 4 is gone now, that probably means Lukaku and Stones are gone with it. I said last year Martinez needs at least until half way through this season before any decisions are made. So I can see the argument for him going we should be higher in the league, but I am still willing to stick with him until the end of the season, this team can win something.
112 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:21:51
113 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:22:33
All this indicates that exciting though it may be to be in Everton's corner, the massive holes in our defence - in spite of deploying no less than 7 players in the cause - will ensure that we finish bottom half UNLESS SOMETHING IS DONE ABOUT IT !
Roberto is screaming blue murder tonight about referee Clattenburg. Perhaps he would do better to analyse the other 34 goals conceded when the official was nowhere in sight !
114 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:25:46
I am sick to fucking death of this style of management, fucking sick of it. I cannot understand why he did not close the game down, play the fucking game out. We had a line of midfield ball killers just waiting to get on the pitch and that man, who we have to call the manager of Everton Football Club, wants us to play more possession shite football. Fucking why?? TWAT!!!
115 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:27:34
Moyes has gone as a manager. He's worse now than when he left us.
116 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:28:45
I want the likes of Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barkley and Stones at the club next season at the expense of Martinez. The clubs ownership is now paramount to moving forward with changes below and to key personnel next summer
Unfortunately I see this season petering out similar to the last campaign.
Martinez is clearly on another level to what most think. His reason for leaving Mirallas and Lennon out of the side was because they played for large parts of the Newcastle game??!! This guy has seriously lost the plot, its like he's making out that both have played the 90 mins the entire season, why couldn't they be on the subs bench. He has to go end of the season. Time is up Mr Fraud
117 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:29:01
118 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:29:19
119 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:29:52
Even on the Live Forum, people were excusing the errors by both Stones and Galloway because they are young. Fine, but then understand those errors are going to produce clear shots on goals and goals conceded no matter who is in goal. You can't have it both ways. Stop blaming the keeper while excusing the poor play in front of him. Fact is, until there is defensive organization and defensive options at center half, it doesn't matter who the goalkeeper is.
On the bright side, Lukaku looked a beast. For those who claimed he was not talented enough, really? Also, did anyone catch his 60 plus yard track back in the 49th minute to get in front of the Stoke player and stop him from going forward into our box? Excellent work by him.
Stoke is a good team and can play with anyone. 7 goals in any game is exciting and frustrating at the same time. Let us hope we do better next match. COYB!
120 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:31:43
121 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:33:19
122 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:33:59
123 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:34:56
124 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:36:16
126 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:36:47
127 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:37:57
128 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:38:00
I'd love to see him back with our current squad, we would never lose 4 goals at home to a Stoke.
129 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:38:42
130 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:39:15
Our top players will see through Martinez and will leave! My concerns over his defensive mindset is coming true. We have very good defenders whom are not protected. Our goals against at home is that of relegation form! Stoke, Bournemouth, and Leicester, have seen ten goals conceeded. All top teams in the premiership!
The main problem is Martinez is a nice chap, talks the talk and all other fans of other clubs see him as a good manager! Sorry the stats don't support this!!
I fear worrying times ahead!!!
131 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:39:16
132 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:41:11
133 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:41:41
134 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:42:01
136 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:42:17
This is taken from the BBC football website:
Premier League: 2013 in numbers
Fulham's defence was the worst, shipping 65 goals in 37 games, with Sunderland letting in 60. Everton were the meanest at the back, conceding just 33, while Arsenal's backline was breached 34 times.
The 4 leaked in against Stoke was the 19th we've conceded at home, which is easily the worst in the league. How is this possible with practically the same players (the only mitigating factor being the disruptions due to injuries) that are now protected by two holding MF be so fuckin' leaky.
Obviously the GK needs to go, but for God's sake why can't we hold onto a lead? As Ronnie Goodlass commented that it was like watching a kids' team; 2-0 up and still play the same way or switch off altogether Marinez keeps coming out with the same shite that lessons are being learnt, after the Bournemouth game, or was it the Palace or Norwich game. Well we've battled back to get to 3-2 up and did we close the game out? Yet another lesson to be learnt.
Marinez has got previous; his defence was a shambles at Wigan, which could have been a limited budget problem, but this time he's inherited a top defence with all the players at some time linked with top clubs, all internationals now look like a pub team
Martinez, too stubborn, too many favourites that play regardless, yet another person who believes their own publicity Get shut now before he destroys our great club
138 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:43:08
139 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:43:50
Put Big Joe in as caretaker, and unleash the Dogs Of War once again. We need to star winning, we need to play with grit and determination, and we need to defend.
140 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:43:54
141 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:45:17
142 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:46:08
143 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:46:08
144 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:47:32
145 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:47:41
146 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:48:50
147 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:49:59
148 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:50:22
149 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:50:34
152 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:53:00
153 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:54:57
154 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:55:40
155 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:56:15
156 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:56:25
Mix in a couple of artisans to create and a natural goalscorer.
With RM it is either EGO or naivety of the highest order !
157 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:57:13
159 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:57:33
160 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:59:32
161 Posted 28/12/2015 at 18:59:34
162 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:00:36
163 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:00:38
164 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:01:51
165 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:02:16
166 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:02:35
On the subject of Romelu, he is twice the player he was last season and will continue to improve. No doubt his mentor Drogba will convince Chelsea to fork out £50M to get him back. Lets just hope there is someone in charge capable f spending it wisely.
167 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:02:36
168 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:02:52
169 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:08:07
170 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:08:14
171 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:08:21
Big Dunc was as much a legend off the field as he was on it. And not for the right reasons.
If we are talking caretaker, then Joe Royle is a no brainier and he would do it. Stubbs would want the top job, and do not thiink he is up to it yet.
172 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:09:17
Howard has cost us on more than one occasion and the lack of experience of the four in front for most of the season has too.
Lukaku has transformed his game over the last couple of months, he must be totally demoralised by the shambles at the back, he will be gone in June.
173 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:10:02
174 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:10:27
How soon before seeing RL in the Royal Blue shirt of Everton becomes a distant memory?
Without a trophy, or at minimum, European qualification, how long do you think he and other blossoming young players the likes of Robbie Shields in this thread speaks of as part of a rosy future for Everton, move on to WINNING clubs..?
THIS is the crux of the concerns many have on here when analyzing performances versus results.
Today's game was AMAZING. The result was crushing. The window of opportunity this season is offering is rapidly closing to a mere cracked pane...
175 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:10:46
176 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:11:29
Having fought back to go 3-2 up, you tighten up with 20 minutes to go. The obvious would have been Besic for Kone especially since Cleverley had been replaced by Naismith.
About two minutes before they equalised there was a moment that summed it up. We had an attack which broke down and we had eight men ahead of the ball. It's not fucking rocket science.
We should be talking about one of the best centre forward displays in years. Lukaku was immense today, he bullied both central defenders, his hold up play and awareness was outstanding and his finishing as good as ever.
Instead we come away with nothing. This is not about players, our defenders are a match for any. It's the way we set up and play in such an open way regardless of what is going on. If Martinez cannot see the bleeding obvious and be able to flex tactics to suit a match situation we need to find someone who can.
177 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:13:10
No way he will go for Moyes, and I'd take that all day over Roberto.
178 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:14:00
179 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:15:27
180 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:16:21
181 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:16:52
182 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:17:42
When we are 3-2 up what should be the strategy?
For me it's simple. Without leaving yourselves exposed at the back, you try to get a forth. What you don't do - which is becoming our trade mark - is pass it around to try to keep possession without any intent.
Because eventually it will be taken off you. The lack of real purpose - which we display whenever we go ahead - is the approach which is costing us games.
It's not about going gung ho but about ensuring you keep doing enough to stop the opposition gaining the momentum.
Martinez' possession football is (whenever we go ahead) warps in a strolling bunch of Barcelona wannabes. It's something we'll never be - but more importantly it's costing us games.
184 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:22:59
186 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:26:46
188 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:32:54
It would get most managers the bullet.
189 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:34:42
190 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:37:26
Edward James Olmos (Miami vice)
That was bad.
191 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:38:35
193 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:41:35
Whether we went for a fourth, put 10 men behind the ball and had Lukaku as a lone forward 35 years ahead of everyone else (I remember that tactic from the more dour Moyes displays) or just probed and kept is safely in their half didn't matter. But messing around with no obvious plan AND leaving half the team up the pitch was suicide. As was demonstrated.
This failing was primarily a management failing. Howard is beyond doubt the worst goalkeeper I have ever seen on a consistent basis, and why Kone stays on after 60 minutes is a total mystery. (And this season I am a complete convert to Kone - it's just he's always burned out by halfway through the second half, so why make the poor sod keep running when there's nothin in the tank, and perfectly good swaps on the bench). But today, as at Bournemouth, there was a total failure of will on and off the pitch.
Something must change.
194 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:43:00
Looks like we are still not getting the rub.
We have got to start winning our matches instead of relying on the opposition to lose them for us (Newcastle, thank you).
I remain hopeful.
195 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:45:12
196 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:48:26
The problem is the money he generates would be spent by Martinez. Why can't he see what everybody else in the football world knows, including pub teams and schoolboys, that the first and easiest thing to get right is the defence? I am 59 and I never thought I would live to see the day that Everton would concede four at home Stoke City.
197 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:51:44
198 Posted 28/12/2015 at 19:54:58
200 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:00:07
201 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:00:27
As I've said before, Martinez is the most damaging (fundamentally) manager in Everton's history.
202 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:00:34
We should collect as much as we can for Lukaku and Stones (who was dreadful today and whose stock may begin to fall shortly) since their departures are inevitable and we should aim to have a hard, competitive club and team in place for next time around. Lukaku may indeed go in January and I wouldn't blame him; his performance today, whatever his motivation, was one of the best centre forward displays I have seen an Everton player give.
That view of our position is depressing but it is realistic given the utter mess RM has made of things. A new manager will presumably have to follow any change of ownership, if that is not yet another Kenwright fiction. If there is no change of ownership and management then I will certainly not be renewing my season ticket and I urge others not to do so either.
The cosy, sentimental, mediocre, "we're all one big blue family" stuff has to be binned pronto. So does the delusion that things are just getting ready to blossom; no they're not. We're a football club and the object is to win, something we just don't do anywhere near often enough.
If we do not act with proper speed then I truly think that this club is set on a perilous, and possibly irrecoverable course. We simply cannot afford more of Kenwright and Martinez.
203 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:00:53
204 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:01:13
You really think Ferguson has any real say in who the manager selects and how he sets the side up?
Maybe a more apt measurement of his worth is the obvious improvement in Lukaku's game since Ferguson begun working closely with the forward in an attempt to improve his hold up play and heading ability?
206 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:04:08
207 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:08:01
He has the luxury of working with the most talented squad we have had in 30 years and we are in the bottom half of the league. We certainly won't have the same talented squad next year as many will understandably, bugger off to work with a coach who understands the importance of building a team around a strong defence.
You fucked us over Martinez as I feared you would.
208 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:08:15
What do you people want , big Sam? Actually it seems more like too many people who have commented here want and expect a mixture of big Sam and Arsene Wenger and they want their bread buttered on both sides. We should have won today but it is not the end of the world that we haven't. The pros massively outweigh the cons with an Everton team playing great football on the whole which doesn't relegate us to the last dregs match to be shown on Match of the Day. If we are still leaking goals in 2 years I might join you and see the need for a change but right now get a life please.....!!
209 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:13:06
210 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:13:57
211 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:16:17
Lukaku & Barry magnificent, Cleverly great too whilst on.
Stones had his worst ever game for us, & Howard was Ã¢â‚¬Â¦Howard! Kone tried hard, but ineffective. However, worst of all was Barkley- his usual consistent garbage – nearly every move loses all momentum when the ball arrives at him, and he takes so many touches on the ball to so little effect. And he hides when we don't have the ball – opponents pass him by so casually it's amazing – that's one of the reasons our defence gets so stretched. His free-kicks are rubbish and his crossing & corners pathetic. GD and Kone also a defensive liabilities – top teams in this league don't have lazy players. Teams attack as a team (like we do) and DEFEND AS A TEAM.
And why the hell did Macca start his first game for a month against on eof the league's biggest & most physical teams? And why didn't Lennon & Kev start, never mind be on the bench?
Guess I'm beginning to think we need a change of manager – Joe (or Peter Reid) in the short term to instill some reality and fight.
P.S. Moyes – no way. Stubbs - we need to aim higher. Dunc – unproven?
212 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:17:58
As for the goal keeping situation. Robles seems to get better and better the less he plays in some peoples minds. He was considered a laughing stock for most of his time here then put in a few decent enough displays and suddenly he's Spain's answer to Peter Cech.
213 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:18:00
I note that even our Martinez fans are keeping a bit quiet the last few weeks.
Where's everyone that were prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt last season and were adamant this season would see us progress under his Phenominally management
We have completely wasted this season when we could and should have been in a European spot with a good team.
If we give this incompetent another season we will be down
214 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:21:12
215 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:21:45
216 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:25:13
217 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:25:29
He set up Galloway for what should have been a goal in the first half with a clever back heel, he set up the third goal and his ball retention and passing in the second half particularly were of high quality in my opinion.
There is certainly more to come from him but I think he is steadying nicely and a better coach than Martinez could well bring him on to his full potential.
219 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:29:30
How is he still in his job?
220 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:31:25
221 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:31:26
222 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:32:04
How he hangs onto the job is beyond me. How much longer do we have to put up with him? The defence is absolute rubbish with Stones playing short passes in our own penalty area(encouraged by Martinez) and always looking vulnerable, Coleman up the other end of the field when we need a right back, and anything in the air is always a big problem with Howard dancing up and down on the goal line and giving free headers to any attacker who happens to be in the area.
Lukaku was terrific again today and deserved to be on the winning side. No doubt it was the usual utter rubbish from Martinez at the press conferenceÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â¦ how much more of it do we have to put up with - let's get rid of him NOW.
224 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:32:52
Rom will be off, but I would sell Stones and buy one strong CB and a hope of replacing our lost striker. Our defence has cost us our No9!
226 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:35:01
227 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:35:14
229 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:37:41
The way he has us playing at times is sublime, really exciting stuff.
But it is not an ideal world, and he can't set up a defense and another bottom half finish will mean losing the core that makes us so exciting.
Martinez Out, Bielsa In.
230 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:40:42
231 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:41:23
We need a new manger. We appear to have a fine collection of individuals and the best striker in the league, unfortunately they aren't taught , coached or managed to perform as a unit. We are like a kids team unable to defend a lead or see a game out, there is no savvy, nous or professionalism in the way we perform.
I don't want former players, existing staff or up an coming coach as manager but someone who is experienced and can organise the players to adapt to systems and circumstances on the pitch. Perhaps a Mancini or de matteo who have been winners and managed top clubs.
232 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:42:34
By the way big Dunc cannot be blamed for the defending. If anything, he needs phrase for working with lukaku. His form is immense!
233 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:42:50
Can anyone explain Baines being dropped to the bench? Okay, he's not the LB of old but against Stoke I'd have banked on his experience. And why was Cleverly yanked? If neither was match fit then they should not be on the bench to start with, esp against a team like Stoke.
I thought my 49ers were bad at 4-11 (they are) but Everton at 6-19 just stinks.
235 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:43:20
He is the only current Everton player who can play in this role, his pass for Delefoue's goal was supreme.
His critics need to take a long hard look at themselves and reserve their venom for the stubborn manager, who can see what is happening each week but refuses to shoulder any of the blame.
People are not stupid, he will eventually drive away all our better players who will quickly realise this team will go nowhere with him at the helm.
236 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:44:35
You carry on enjoying it and cheering down Wembley Way.
237 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:50:21
Lukaku gets a 9. Howard a 4.
238 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:52:19
Luck is the last thing you can blame this season. At the moment, he is destroying the image of Everton as maximizers of results compared to the squad and resources available, which David Moyes DID play a big role in, like it or not (agree or disagree).
239 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:54:32
I've waited a long time before finally realising that Martinez is punching well over his weight in this league, my patience is shot to... Anfield!
240 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:55:53
He would attract the three players we need and bring out the best in an organised defence. As many say we are close to being special but I'm afraid our current manager hasn't the know how to make it happen.
241 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:02:16
We are learning nothing from our games. For the last 9 Martinez has said we will learn. But the in the next game he demonstrates that we've actually learned nothing at all.
More than that isn't Martinez a wee bit old and experienced to be still learning in every game. Or does he mean it's the players who will learn - I which case why doesn't he just teach or explain things to them them before the game.
The real problem is Martinez is a naive manager and nothing will change until he goes. If you're happy to remain in the middle to lower half of the table for the next few years that's fine. Otherwise he'll need to go.
It's not really our job to worry about who will replace him. That's the board's job. If we can't actually say a Manager is crap until we have a replacement we might as well give up.
It's almost akin to not being able to say a player should go until we have someone lined up to replace him.
We'll deal with the next stage when and if it happens! Anything is better than watching great potential go down the pan!
242 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:07:36
243 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:08:07
Your optimism and positivity is heart warming though @ this time seems misplaced.
244 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:08:17
245 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:08:27
"...worst of all was Barkley- his usual consistent garbage"
That's the second successive game you've pointed the finger at Barkley even though he's been one of the best players on the pitch both times. Singling him out as the main factor behind this teams failings is like saying a lack of lipstick was the only thing letting the Elephant Man down in the looks department.
246 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:08:30
Kone was poor yet again.
247 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:14:21
248 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:15:21
249 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:17:53
I have criticised him in the past but the last few games he has been superb.
If you don't think that you weren't at those games!
251 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:18:22
252 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:22:34
How many games have we been able to field our first choice back 4? We have conceded an large number of goals from individual errors too, It doesn't help and the players need to learn fast. They are doing their learning on the pitch and that can be frustrating.
I feel we need to get behind the team AND manager, they know this isn't good enough but this is the closest we have been to having something special for a long time. The team needs patience and support but it's as though some of the curmudgeonly fuckers on here can't wait for it to go tits up so they can have a good gloat. Shame.
253 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:27:14
Given the fact he is playing very well for his move, we should clean up on his sale, given all the top clubs right now would be in the market for a young striker with proven PL goalscoring potential. We should make a mega profit in the books, maybe as much as £40m. Stones may also want out and it may not be such a bad time to sell him. Again, big bucks in book value, maybe another £40m (given his original transfer value was so low)
That might be £80m to spend, maybe more if we have new owners who want to invest. So who would you want to spend that money, bearing in mind such vast sums are, for us, a one off and cannot be wasted?
254 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:31:15
255 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:32:30
256 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:35:18
I do not know what Martinez sees in Kone because he is not a left winger or someone who looks unlikely to score, yet, he was bought as a centre forward.
Without Lukaku, Everton would be in a worse situation than now. He is carrying the attack by himself without anyone remotely as good as him up there with him.
257 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:48:49
People often say a team mirrors the manager, and our manager is a nice guy, but may lack a bit of steel. This sums us up play some really nice football but lack the steel to see the job through. I know some have mentioned different alternatives should RM go, I said some months ago I would have given Gary Neville a go. But cant see him leaving Valencia anytime soon. My other choice would be the man in the opposite dug out today. He has changed Stoke from the long ball Pulis football, to a good footballing side. He has also had a lot less to spend than RM, I know he doesn't come across as a nice guy but his team certainly play for him.
Early in the season I criticized Lukaku, but fair play to the lad his all round game has improved tremendously. To such an extent that I wouldnt swap him for any other striker in the Premiership. The sad thing is I cant see him being here next summer regardless of who the manager is.
258 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:49:10
259 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:51:15
Compared to LVG Moyes was given fuck all kitty to work with. He spent 10% of what LVG has invested in players and LVG's results stats over the same period of time are no better. For those who are unaware - I understand that Real Sociedad have a club policy that something like15 of their 25 squad players have to have come through their academy system - that's 60%, so in both cases I'd say DM has been dealt a pretty bum hand. Imagine if we HAD to have 60% academy players on the first team squad. It would be a nightmare scenario. All good charitable intentions and that what a fucking millstone.
I'm not advocating he should replace RM but we could do worse. DM would have a point to prove and he did do better with a considerably less talented bunch of players than RM is shaping up to do right now. And he was responsible for some pretty respectable signings. As well as some turkeys of course.
All may change for the better under RM and if it doesn't soon then he won't get the chance anyway because our key talent is going to be off eventually if not sooner and I include Rom, Stones, Barkely, Deulofeu, Coleman and possibly Macca in that casualty list.
So someone needs to buck up and bite the bullet in our camp while we still have some slack. Surely someone at the club can speak up and lobby for a good defensive coach to be recruited. I don't even know if we currently have anyone with that function. Maybe it is RM, God knows.
It has been mooted elsewhere that RM and DM could work as a team using their respective defensive and attacking strengths and if that could be made to work we could be on to a pretty groundbreaking format. Only problem is I get the impression that RM is some kind of control freak and if two management type personalities were going to work together it would need someone in some sort of 'director of football' type role. There must be suitable people out there.
Any ideas anyone?
261 Posted 28/12/2015 at 21:56:47
262 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:14:38
Howard at fault again for their second goal, what is he doing that far off his line?
Why is he palming the ball, taking the pace off it for their third, he should have punched it in my mind.
We are an easy touch when it comes to defending crosses and all the opposition know this.
We are so easy to score against, and Howard needs to be dropped.
I am beginning to side with those who have already pointed out the comparisons with Martinez Wigan.
Martinez needs a rocket up his arse from somebody at Everton and soon !
We have the worst defence in the league at home ( 19 goals against 22 for = 12 points from 10 games.
It's no good scoring goals if you keep letting more in the other end.
Spurs up next !
263 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:15:17
Just finished watching the entire match on game of the day, an a couple of points.
1) Stoke are a more than useful side with a great balance
2) first 2 Stoke goals was about brilliant football than our defensive frailties .
3) 3rd goal came from a cross that wasn't closed down that the GK didn't deal with, which has now got a name just like the Cruyff turn, ours is called groundhog day.
4) Kone was gash and should be on the bench as backup CF to give Lukaku a blow, and should've been substituted by Baines in the 1st half.
5) there are not enough runners from midfield getting beyond Lukaku, when we do we look devastating, instead we look for the perfect opening a la Arsenal.
6) Everyone in the game the ex-pros that are working in the media all say the same that Everton play like Wigan-lovely football shite defence. bottom half of the table about to lose the players that give us lovely football
7). Depressing time to e an Evertonian
264 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:18:01
I really think that a part of the answer to our defensive shortcomings would be to sign a top class goalkeeper. Howard was terrible for two of their goals being horribly out of position for one and slow to react for the other.
As for the defence well I'm not sure if he will ever sort that out. A new defensive coach is required urgently
Lukaku just looks on us as a WBA type club and has no loyalty. He will be off like a shot asap.
Everyone I speak to agrees that we look so vulnerable once we have scored a goal.
It was a cracking game and Hughes is doing a great job at Stoke now that he has the right personnel. Shaqiri and Bojan are two superb players with great skill and real football brains.
I'm very disappointed and worried about the forthcoming match with Spurs who also have some very dangerous forwards.
As for people mentioning Moyes well they have got to be joking. I would rather have anyone than him in charge of our team.
265 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:20:07
When we went 3-2 up we had Barkley, Naismith, Kone, Del and Rom on the pitch. We were basically playing 4-1-5.
You would challenge any team in the prem to play a formation as unbalanced as that for 20 mins and not concede at least one maybe two goals.
Martinez can moan all he likes about young players needing to learn how to manage a game but he's not making it easy for them.
266 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:21:07
He has spent the last 2 1/2 years undoing everything that Moyes set up because he was sick of hearing about him.
He cannot stand to have his opinion challenged as evidenced by the players who have been cold shouldered or shown the door.
Martinez is an extremely poor manager in most senses of the word.
He insists on a 4-3-2-1 system in every game even though other managers have sussed it out.
If we didnt have the quality of players we would be where Villa are right now.
Agree with calls for Quiche Flores of Watford and Eddie Howe is worth a gamble given the turds he has polished to diamonds..
268 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:37:10
269 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:40:03
Now we've got Coleman, one of the best right backs in the prem and linked with man U Chelsea etc, Stones linked with Chelsea & Barca, Jags, linked with a move to Arsenal a couple of seasons ago, Baines linked with Man U and Funes Mori. All of them full internationals and top drawer players to boot.
So this isn't a case of 'we need a better CH' or 'we need a better RB' because we've already got them. All of this IMHO makes Martinez even more hopeless as a manager. Most managers screw up because they've got limited budgets and, to quote OFM, turn up to a gun battle with a knife.
Martinez inherited a well-oiled talented defence and has turned them into a shambles. That and his weird,almost blackmailesque loyalty to Tim Howard, is the reason we're mid-table, and we're about to come into a run of games that are a lot more challenging than the easy games(ha ha) of December.
270 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:43:22
Mind you the live forum was full of fault for Howard being beaten by Shaqiri's second. At that point I quit reading.
271 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:54:01
This manager cannot organise a defence to save his life, our defence is awful, shambolic, and yet again we are unable to close out a game.
This is the 3rd or 4th time this has happened this season. Sunderland, we threw away a comfortable 2-0 lead, luckily we went on to win 6-2, Bournemouth, twice, both in embarrassing fashion, Norwich, totally dominant, then we let in a soft goal from a set piece, and now today.
3-2 and we're still going gung ho, it's just amateurish naivety. Close the game out. We let 3 points turn to 1, then even managed to lose that.
It's not a penalty but let's not get too hung up on that because yet again our defensive frailties have come back to haunt us. Martinez said triumphantly after Newcastle that 'lessons have been learnt', well clearly on today's evidence, they haven't.
The defending for their second was abysmal, granted it was a great finish but the defending was laughable. You could have parked about 5 buses in the space left between Funes Mori and Galloway.
Inconsistency and basic errors are costing us and it's obvious that Martinez isn't going to learn. An in form Spurs, City away and Chelsea are our next 3 games in the league. If we fail to win any of them we're looking at a repeat of last season.
The excuse then was the Europa League, what is it now? Martinez doesn't have that excuse to fall back on this time. Some on here said at the end of last season that they would give him until Christmas. Well, we're at that point now, and he's not learnt or changed anything. If we aren't in the European places come May, we should look to get rid.
275 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:57:35
Under this manager we defend no better than the shower you've mentioned. We are a complete and utter shambles. And it's now looking at Goodison that we are going to score 3 or 4 to win a game and how sad is that? The gaps all over Goodison are alarming. And at times it actually looks like we've got 8 men on the pitch.
If there is anyone still defending this man please take a long hard look at yourselves. You really are pissing into the wind.
276 Posted 28/12/2015 at 22:58:55
Under Bobby, we have flair, we have goals, we have great football. We also have a suspect defence. Indivually amazing, Colman and baines two of the best full backs in the league. Stones the best English CB in the league and jag and moir both internationals and that's before you mention the others. But for for reason, average keeper noted, we keep letting goals in, are very sustibale to the high pressing game and likely to get caught on the break or a set peice.
If we could move the ball quicker. Cope better under pressure and work hard to cut out counter attacks, and clear set plays we would be winning the league.
277 Posted 28/12/2015 at 23:06:34
We've gone from a well oiled well drilled persistent top 6/7 finishers with not much attacking talent, to a mid to bottom half team full of ability and goals but no organisation or discipline!
The manager has to go now before all the talent does and were left back to square one!
278 Posted 28/12/2015 at 23:31:39
Martinez has brought an entertaining flair to goodison but fans are worried. We are leaking goals to teams that are around us in the league. No fear coming to goodison by teams. Under Moyes, if you won at our place, you deserved it and earned it. Don't see that anymore! Our home form is irratic!
Martinez is very lucky, he will be given time and money. Our top players will leave. They want more, money, trophies, champions league and sun shine. Players don't leave Everton because they don't love the club, they want more from there career.
Please learn from your mistakes Martinez because history is repeating it self from your Wigan days.
279 Posted 28/12/2015 at 23:36:26
And yes I know that our defence is leaking far too many goals. But I never thought that Martinez has ever got our midfield right. Never. Teams run right through us. Our midfield IMO is never balanced. Our DMFs offer no protection to the back four. They also offer little going forward. Our left back has no protection. In fact our left side is very exposed. Our midfield is a mess. And far to much pressure is then put on our defence. Remember when we only a few years back had midfielders of the ilk of Carsley..Graves on..Arteta and Cahill. No pissing about there. If only we had Lukaku back then. And think what Barkley could learn from that bunch. And would they have folded to Stoke City? Anyhow that is all conjecture. My point is that we have a poor soft belly of a midfield. Should we ever have a balanced midfield,,,then watch the defence become more solid. But does Martinez see that......of course he bloody doesn't. Just my opinion. I just don't rate our midfield.
And yes, we need a new keeper.Have been saying that for years. I also want Martinez out. Now I seem to remember reading that Moyes now reckons that he is a better manager. He has learnt from past mistakes. Anyone for Moyes mark 2. Just a thought. And maybe, just maybe , he has learnt from past mistakes. Could he be any worse than Martinez??????
280 Posted 28/12/2015 at 23:39:41
I think the applause was for Stoke! We know a good team when we see it!
281 Posted 28/12/2015 at 23:55:45
He's left footed and I am pretty sure he tries to find Arnautovic and Howard is standing exactly where he should.
The third goal however shows Howard is the goalkeeper that holds the ball least this season of all the goalies, and we conceded at a crucial time.
282 Posted 28/12/2015 at 23:55:57
I really know DM had his faults but still I would welcome him anyday instead of this poor excuse of a football manager. He promised us to Champions League football. Where are we now , 11 or 12,some 6 or even less points from the relegation line.
But as we are Everton he wont be sacked as there is no Moores around any more to tell him the facts in a TAXI.
283 Posted 28/12/2015 at 23:56:25
Martinez is to thank for that, we never had that under Moyes or any of the strugglers before him, right back to the 80s.
We play attaching football that leaves us vulnerable at the back and our strikers fresh.
We're shit at the back and we'll ever win the Prem with Robbie's naive defensive strategies, but let's not forget where've come from recently and the fact that recently Stoke battered Man U and Man City (they didn't batter us!).
Attacking teams thrive on confidence and the crowd getting behind them. Calling Barkley a Pr&£k and W£&ker when he turns to hold onto the ball at his home ground is not the way to build a team's confidence.
A whole stand jeering and swearing at Tim Howard when he fails to punch a ball is not the way to get his confidence up or make him feel respected and loved for his years of service to this club.
Playing at Goodison should be a fortress of support for our players and instead we're making the players feel timid and scared to make a mistake. Martinez is training the players to express themselves and be arrogant, only for the home fans to knock it out of them.
The people booing Coleman at the end in Gwladys street today were a disgrace.
Get behind the team or Martinez and all his flair players may as well walk away now. In 5 years time we'll all be moaning that we've got no one like Rom or Del Boy anymore.
When the crowd is so fickle it's easy to ignore them and just get stuck in and stop a team playing (Moyes). It's almost impossible to be free and express yourself when your own fans are calling our young exciting players W£&kers for losing the ball.
Any decent manager can get Everton to be a tough team to beat like Watford, Palace, Stoke, or West Brom but Martinez is trying to do something special on the same budget.
I'm hurting tonight too, but unless we get behind this team then we'll achieve nothing (just as many seem to predict and almost want).
284 Posted 28/12/2015 at 00:03:40
You must have ears for every negative crowd reaction. I'm a Gwladys St man myself, and all I heard was a crowd willing the side on, despite knowing that at any time now we could implode (sure enough we did). Of course a player will attract groans if whatever he tries doesn't come off.
285 Posted 28/12/2015 at 00:07:25
286 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:13:49
15 goals conceded at home before today, now 19. Nobody below us worse than that.
287 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:16:49
289 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:24:40
I try to be constructive. I try to point out were I think there are faults. I try to be positive. And I want Everton to win at all times. But the fact is we have a shite manager. The supporters are not to blame. Supporters can only support.........and suffer. Believe me.
290 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:25:34
291 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:28:35
I think the biggest worry every fan has is the good players, are going to leave and we are left trying to rebuild again and again. If we knew it we going to be a three year project and Rom and his merry men where not going to leave and the team only get better then we would accept this phase. Our worry is Rom and others leave in the summer and what replaces them is no as good.
Think it is worth keeping things in prospective, Chelsea, Man U, Southampton, Liverpool all having shocking seasons. I don't many Man City and Arsenal fans are too pleased either. I think Leicester and Tottenham aside most teams fans at the top of the prem are thinking this is our year, we should be winning this or at least nailing top 4. Maybe the days of a run away top 4 has gone and it is a rag bag mixed top 10? I feel we should have at least 9 points more than we have and would even argue 12-15 would be out the question; which I think when combined with the thought most decedent players about going to leave is why people want Bobby to leave.
292 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:28:42
293 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:37:47
Patrick Murphy - no:242.
That post is as close as you can get regarding the current state of play at Goodison Park.
The crowd are at their wits end and if we had white cushions we would show them all in unison!!!!
294 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:40:10
I want Everton to score more goals than the opposition, at the moment we aren't doing that we are conceding at least as many as we score in most games and sometimes more. That is not what I want from any Everton team, particularly when they have proven themselves capable of better.
There is a a relatively simple solution, play two wide attacking players to negate the need for overlapping full-backs and tell the full backs not to cross the halfway line, it might disrupt some of our attacking flair but it will tighten up the defence, the other instruction to the full-backs is to tell them not to allow the opponents to put the ball into the Everton penalty area so often, look at the way that Stoke and Leicester and even Newcastle stopped Everton from playing the ball into their box too often, too easily, they might not have prevented every ball from doing so but they had a plan to stop us, we on the other hand invite teams to throw the ball in at every opportunity and we pay the price nearly every time it happens.
295 Posted 29/12/2015 at 00:45:57
297 Posted 29/12/2015 at 03:08:45
Ranieri, Eddie Howe, Quiche Flores, hey even Mourhino would walk on coals to have our " international" back 4 and most of the rest of our squad to manage..
The reason most people are fed up with RM is because he is all bullshit and no substance.
I have never seen an Everton team so unprepared, ill disciplined and set up so badly as they are now.
You may enjoy being beaten 3-4 or 2-3 every week but most of us don't.
We have become Wigan.... easy on the eye and easy to beat.
298 Posted 29/12/2015 at 04:12:01
To all the people talking about our so called 'shit goalkeeper and shit defenders' that's absolute nonsense we have a good goalkeeper, and some very good defenders. The players alone are not the problem, the system is the problem.
We concede most of our goals with our defenders running back towards our own goal - why do you think that is? When do you see us sitting back on our 18-yard line defending face to face, in numbers, making it difficult to break us down? That's right, never. We don't play like that which means our defenders are not playing as defenders, they're playing as attackers who happen to play at the back you can watch all our games this season to see it in action.
We're a force going forward, any idiot can see that. But you can't play with your two centre halves on the halfway line all game and expect not to concede goals. It's not not rocket science.
Martinez has always played this way. His teams have always played high up the pitch because he thinks we're Barcelona, and we can simply roll teams over but the PL is to strong nowadays and he needs to temper it.
The problem he has is that when he tells them to play slower and keep the ball, the supporters lose their shit and complain at that as well. There IS no middle ground with the way he sets a team up, so the players are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
A couple of years ago there were a lot of voices saying things like, "I'd prefer us to be entertaining than hard to beat", well you got your wish. A wish that will likely bring you mid-table obscurity and lots of short-term kicks.
Personally, aside from this post I've started taking a more short-term view of it and just enjoying the games. I know we lost but last night was a cracking game of football, again.
We won't win shit, and we'll finish around 10th I reckon but it'll be fun to watch anyway, and there'll be more football next season, and the season after.....
299 Posted 29/12/2015 at 05:40:24
1. Both fullbacks are often on the attack to get the width Everton need to break teams down. This obviously leads to the centre-backs then getting pulled out of position.
2. The coverage for the centre-backs is usually either McCarthy or Barry. With three at the back, teams create confusion by drawing one of those players to the ball and creating space behind. When we're doing well and not conceding, it's usually because both McCarthy and Barry are back defending. Note the first goal where John Stones gets caught way out of position by Bojan's first touch and turn.
3. I thought the tactics were good at 2-1 down. Barkley beside Barry and Cleverley further afield. This allowed 4-2-3-1 defending and 4-1-4-1 when needed in attack. The problem then was when we were 3-2 up, the team continued to play an attacking game, because they felt they were close to getting that next goal which would have sealed the game. Unfortunately, once again their naiviety showed and they conceded two. Should Martinez have subbed a defensive midfielder on for Barkley after the third? Easy to say in hindsight.
4. Howard out of position on the second goal (the only way Shaqiri could have scored), and flapped at the third. (How many times has he not stopped a six-yard cross?)
5. I don't think this is a huge reason, but Martinez likes to throw out hyperboles and the players think they are better than they are. Stones was stellar earlier on in the season, and he looks like he's had enough. Coleman is a decent attacking full back, but he's still limited and he's not a great defender for 90 minutes. Funes Mori not sure if he's a Champions League defender (which is what Everton should be aiming for), or just decent backup. Galloway, I'm still high on, but he needs a rest and it's good that Baines is coming back now.
300 Posted 29/12/2015 at 08:03:42
Feel like me wife and kids have got up and left, how can football do that to you?
301 Posted 29/12/2015 at 09:07:54
Conceding four at home to Stoke City - bloody hell, I never thought I would see the day.
303 Posted 29/12/2015 at 11:29:02
Stoke outplayed us for large portions of the game yesterday. They kept possession comfortably and scored when they needed to (aren't we meant to be able to do that?)
You can count the number of good games we have played this season on one hand. The rest have been disappointing, conceding stupid goals, only playing for one half, Martinez continually moaning that we are unlucky. When he arrived at our club, not only did he make CL assertions, he also asserted that he would sort out the top 4 problem. Well he has actually sorted out the top half problem in that we don't beat anybody anymore. For fucks sake if this clown doesn't get out of our club soon he will drag us down in spectacular Wigan fashion. Entertaining? Absolutely not. Just fraught with frustration that 3 2 up with 10 minutes to go, you just knew we wouldn't hang on to the lead. That idiot manager can't go quick enough for me. He has completely spoiled any kind of exciting match day going experience with the dread of slow pointless build up play with no team balance allied with comedy defending week after week. Just fuck off now. I had enough this time last season and people just bleated that he just needed a bit of time. Well 12 months down the line and nothing has changed. We are still piss poor and conceding goals for fun. He actually does make Moyes look like a tactical genius!!
305 Posted 29/12/2015 at 11:57:55
We are playing well, scoring goals and we have a great squad of players.
There is only one problem and that is organising the defensive side of our game. It can't be difficult. Surely a top defensive coach could be brought in to work with the players.
I just wish people would stop referring to our former manager who turned us into a real negative dour outfit.
Hire a defensive coach now!
306 Posted 29/12/2015 at 12:00:56
307 Posted 29/12/2015 at 12:10:52
If Martinez plays Howard in goal and we lose against Spurs he should be shown the door. It is pure incompetence. Let him ply his Kamikaze style defending trade at Bolton, Blackpool or maybe Wigan again. Forget tactics, his record is not good enough......end of.
He will take us down eventually, like Holloway did to Blackpool. I coach kids teams and you explain to them the basics. I honestly don't think Martinez gives a damn about defending. Like Rodgers he is one big ego trip and who was given a chance at the big time, and both have philosophies about possession (basically spoofing it).
I don't like to make any player a scapegoat but if he cannot see that one obvious problem is Howard then why is he a premier league manager in the first place.
I must be one of those keyboard warriors that writer number 41 was talking about. However, from my seat in the Lower Gwladys yesterday I was not on my own.
Even if I wanted to, I find it hard to stick up for Martinez as he has brought it all on himself....
308 Posted 29/12/2015 at 12:13:54
309 Posted 29/12/2015 at 12:31:43
310 Posted 29/12/2015 at 13:26:25
Sure, more often than not the team might have clammed up when it counted but the idea that Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Osman, Mirallas, Saha, Yakubu and the gang were dour is just laughable. I could add further names to that over the years. We had a lot of good football to celebrate.
This line gets trotted out all the time, mainly because Moyes himself was dour and he burned all his bridges by making classless comments once he left but with even the most idle analysis there is really no substance to it.
311 Posted 29/12/2015 at 13:52:56
How we have got this reputation for playing scintillating football amazes me. Its a media driven myth that some fans are actually starting to believe. Apart from beating shit teams, what have we done? Where was this so called great football against City, United, RS, Spurs, Arsenal, Barnsley, Reading, Watford, 2nd halves against Norwich, Bournmouth....shall I go on? We are not a good side, we are an poor to average side at best which is heading in one direction with this idiot in charge, downwards.
312 Posted 29/12/2015 at 13:57:20
313 Posted 29/12/2015 at 13:57:30
With my blood pressure I think I am going to have to stop watching until we get a sensible manager.
314 Posted 29/12/2015 at 14:03:49
The reality was we were going nowhere.
I suppose until we get ambitious owners things will remain the same.
I do like the attacking play of Martinez and I agree defensively we are terrible.
316 Posted 29/12/2015 at 14:24:53
Bottom line is that it's hard for some to see that we are now a worse team in terms of results, than under Moyes.
318 Posted 29/12/2015 at 15:14:00
319 Posted 29/12/2015 at 15:21:24
You can forget about Martinez getting the sack this season because it wont happen!
People talk about us being a top 4 side, that was never on my radar, top 6 maybe, 7th or 8th was were I was expecting us to finish, that's maybe were we will finish come the end.
As Teddy says quite a number of players are only here in the first place because Martinez is the manager. I can understand fans getting on his back because it's really frustrating to watch, we are always dangerous going forward but we are too often conceding vital goals. I think we could be deemed a little unlucky on Saturday though, was it a penalty? Was Shaqiri's shot intentional, whatever we got beat, ifs a big word.
Stoke have proved this season that they can beat anyone on their day, so it wasn't a total surprise! The frustrating thing about it is we are close to being a very good winning team that would improve for a few tweeks.
At the moment we are too gung ho, so that's the managers fault, but as far as conceding some goals are concerned you can also blame individual mistakes, through some players not being good enough in the situation.
Is it best to change the manager, I honestly don't know, its 6 of one and 6 of the other!
320 Posted 29/12/2015 at 15:24:53
Let's take a look at OFM last season to name but one; Losses to Chelsea twice (2-1 each time) and a 2-0 loss to Utd away back your theory. Only other teams we lost to that season were Sunderland, Brom, Reading and Norwich of all people.
Wins against 'big teams' included Utd, City and Spurs, the rest all draws.
Season before that; quickfire losses to City, RS, Chelsea and Utd at the start of the year but a strong finish with wins over City, Chelsea and Spurs and also an epic 4-4 draw with Utd.
Abysmal? I'd say not all that bad considering the gulf in funding. Over 11 years there were abysmal results aplenty but why do you overlook the fine times we pulled it off.
To date, Martinez has topped this with a win against Utd at OT and....that's it. Our form against the RS is still abysmal and the less said about THAT game at Anfield the better.
As for scintillating football; yes I loved seeing a 6-2 win against Sunderland but you presumably can't remember as far back as 2007 when we thrashed them 7-1. Dour stuff that.
321 Posted 29/12/2015 at 15:33:02
we are not just talking about the Stoke game yesterday.
Despite the fact our defense and midfield is littered with international players we leak goals like a sieve under this clown.
It is in his DNA just ask Wigan fans and look at their record.
He is obviously out of his depth to all but the blind or those that do not want to see.
322 Posted 29/12/2015 at 15:47:50
During the past few games under Martinez, we have found ourselves with a very inexperienced back three of four who are being exposed. Stones, Galloway and Funes-Mori will not be able to keep top class strikers at bay without cover from midfield. It will be interesting to see we how do defensively when Jagielka returns. I'm sure we will fare a little better with an experienced head at the back.
A goalkeeper on the way out and an inexperienced defence will only end badly in this League. I'll be amazed if we don't sign an experienced centre-half during January. We are desperate for cover in that area.
323 Posted 29/12/2015 at 15:52:33
He did a great job getting us to be a regular top eight finishing side. At times, his teams played great football. At times we were very dull and aimless.
I wanted him out because I didn't think he could take us any further. That's it. One skill set to get us to top eight, another skill set to take us higher. He doesn't have that. The fact that Martinez doesn't have it either doesn't change things for me.
324 Posted 29/12/2015 at 15:58:36
What did he do when Cleverley got injured? He brought on Naismith and left 2 natural replacements on the bench (Besic & Gibson). At 3-2 up, he had Naisy and Kone, where were they playing? And he still wouldn't bring on a midfielder.
I'm not looking for Moyes back, but he never made it easy for the opposition. Martinez isn't capable, if he was at Anfield, he'd be long gone.
325 Posted 29/12/2015 at 16:02:17
Our defence are always on the turn chasing back towards our own goal when the opposition attack because they are all caught too far up the field when our attacking moves break down when we inevitably give the ball away cheaply in a dangerous part of the pitch trying to overplay in overly tight situations. It's criminal to commit the same mistakes over and over again and it is so frustrating because EVERYONE can see it... except for one man!
Failing to be able to raise a corner, cross or free kick beyond chest height on a regular basis is a joke for a professional player on tens of thousand a week! Incidentally, how anyone can blame Howard for the 2nd goal is laughable. He had to be off his line because if Shaqiri's intended pass had found it's man Arnautovic was alone in the middle with only Howard to beat.
Just because Howard is often at fault doesn't mean every goal is down to him! I'm surprise he doesn't get stick for not saving the penalties too! I can see Rom going in January because if I was a Champions League club owner with ambition to progress in the knockout stages I'd be looking for a top striker who is not cup tied... and there won't be many of them....
326 Posted 29/12/2015 at 16:02:40
That's not a defence of where we find ourselves now, but let's see where we end up at the end of this season, mainly because Martinez is going nowhere.
327 Posted 29/12/2015 at 16:23:29
I think on Saturday he tried to be too clever and made too many changes, otherwise we may have got a win, who knows.
I've supported him up to the hilt, but he does need to change tack a little.
Another couple of class players would help him mind.
328 Posted 29/12/2015 at 16:28:22
The point of the comparison is that Martinez is demonstrably not that man. He is lauded for bringing some kind of fresh style to the team but the record points haul aside, we have been heading backwards ever since. People who think otherwise either seem to have an inaccurate recall of history or very low expectations for the club.
A huge opportunity has been squandered; the question is what to do about it? If anybody pays poker would they be throwing more into the pot at this stage or looking to fold and start over with a new hand.
I can see nothing changing with this guy and I am happy to endure some short term loss to get rid and start over.
330 Posted 29/12/2015 at 17:02:05
The issue we have now is, better team, worse position in the league. We all sit and look at the team sheet and bench and think this is it, we will win this 2/3-0. And we normally score 2/3 goals it's just of late, note the first few games we didn't, we have conceded 3/4 goals.
We believe we should gave won games we drew, Bourmemouth, Norwich, Crystal P. Now we believe we should win games we are losing, Leicester and Stoke. The same was true last season, throwing away a 2-0 lead to Arsenal with 10mins left was like Bourmemouth this season only we did it twice in the game. We have learnt nothing come the cries.
We sit and we look and on one hand the team is without question improving, better players in positions and more strength in depth. Our bench is worth over £30m most weeks, it is amazing progression. But we are frustrated that we are not winning, we are not near the top of the league. In my mind there is no reason why we shouldn't be winning the prem this year.
I am sure like everyone when we steam rollered Villa and whipped Chelsea we had turned that corner, that we could beat the big boys and we could demolish rubbish teams. Sunderland was a delight to watch. But then we slipped, we stubled, and I am sure like most we are sat looking at the table thinking if only.
We have never coped well with a high pressing game being played against us. Bourmemouth, Norwich and Stoke all play that way. We also don't play well against teams that compress the midfield and defence and allow us no space. If you watch Crystal Place they play with 4/5 at the back with 3/4 in front; pressed very close together, which means we end up playing passes from 35/40 yards out, they normally get cut out and we get caught on the break. Our defence are high up the pitch because the opposition are so deep we can play high without compromising our position.
So why are we losing, lots of reasons. We do get caught on the break, see above. This is partly over comittment, if you watch us against Sunderland we played a lot of the game inviting them onto us and hitting them in the break. Personally I don't thing we need a defence coach I think we need to learn patience and ball speed. If you watch us break from an opposition corner, then we break at pace normally through the centre. When we win the ball back through Howard catching it we break slower, with Barkley. So normally the ball is given to one of the centre backs, Barry then normally turns and comes back to split the centre backs and takes the ball, who plays it to Barkley who will go wide, ball moved around and then a 'killer' pass is played through to Rom or Delboy, often it is cut out. You will notice Kone and Barkely are key to this often dropping back 10yrds inside out own half to pick the ball up.
We play much better then Barkely, Delboy or Rom pick the ball up 10-20 yards further forward and run at the defence. They normally then split, the defence drop back midfield push up and the space for Kone, Delboy etc to run into and pull the defence is created. We look very impressive at this and one of the best teams in the prem.
The problem we have is we try and force that space when playing slowly. We often lose the ball, which allows the opposition to attack and ironically if we win the ball back to counter attack and if not score create a good change. Often though we don't win the ball back and either conceded a corner, win a goal kick or something like that. Which means the game is slowed, we are back to playing it slowly and often the pattern repeated.
Second problem is teams press our slow play, so Stoke second goal you can see Arnautovic pressing our defence and asking his players to join in. They do but we pass it round them, get to midfield and then loss it, under pressure. We then get caught on the break with a goal. It is shocking play, we had the ball, and we gave it away for no reason. I think we look like I don't know what to do now coach? Which could be true, or might be more inpaintance on our part. It is so hard to play the killer ball. What we need to learn to so more is switch play quicker.
So currently we go left out defence, and then make a slow switch right, often losing the ball in the process. If we could switch it faster and go down a channel it would open teams up. But we need to be quicker at getting back to defence also. Now this is partly because we have played a high line, partly the opposition have at least one quick player and our players two aside (Delboy and Rom) are exceptionally quick and Barry is very slow. So any quick break will either result in a Barry foul, or them pulling one of the full backs out of place to cover the centre backs who are covering Barry.
I don't think there is s silver bullet solution, not like I can wave a magic wound and make Barry quick. But we can make some simple changes. First Howard, I don't care who is in goal, but who ever is needs to own the defence. So put men on players and stick with them. If one breaks through then Howard has to do a one on one save. Don't allow people to get pulled out of position. Don't switch the ball through the centre of midfield so much, it moves quickest when not being touched, so work on deeper left to right, right to left switching. Don't allow the opposition to press you, if I can see it then as players you can see it. Hit it long, very long, re group and invite the opposition on to you, never never never allow them to break.
I don't think this will solve all our problems and our football will look worse, hitting a long ball to the corner flag is not pretty. But it will, be effective, and it will stop us leaking and allow us to play.
To conclude I don't think it is as bad as everyone thinks, frustrating would be my summary. In the credit corner Bobby did bring in some very good players and had handled other issues, Stones etc very well. Let us do what the team needs to do and show some patience.
332 Posted 29/12/2015 at 17:13:27
"The defensive solidity (and we were difficult to beat) was founded was founded upon having 9 men behind the ball. 4-5-1 and a lone striker. You had to get past a 5 man midfield before you even got a chance to get at our back four."
If the beaut we had in the dugout or on the touchline had reverted to that when we went 3-2 up we'd have won yesterday. Kone off and Besic or Gibson or Baines on instead would have made all the difference.
333 Posted 29/12/2015 at 17:17:10
I completely disagree with you regards your assumption that Howard is standing exactly were he should be for Stoke's second goal.
He is so far off his line, even Arnautovic could have lobbed it over him had the ball been crossed to him.
I know you are saying that Howard was positioning himself for a cross, but he is 6 - 7 yards off his line and doesn't need to be.
It's all about opinions , and mine is Howard keeps saying he is top rate - well prove it and read the game like you are supposed to.
I genuinely believe if Robles was in there we would have more points on the board.
334 Posted 29/12/2015 at 17:32:03
It appears sloppy defending is nothing new to Martinez.
335 Posted 29/12/2015 at 17:38:36
336 Posted 29/12/2015 at 17:40:47
Even against average opposition we fold like a pack of cards.
Our bullshit manager keeps saying we have to be better defensively instead of doing something about it.
It's as if he doesnt think it's his fault.
It's the referee, it's injuries, it's small margins, it's bad luck, it's the time of year, it's the players youth and blah, blah blah.
No other club having such young top class players and having spent 60 million would put up with a win ratio of only 30% and leaking goals like a sieve.
337 Posted 29/12/2015 at 19:05:04
The players looked scared to applaud the fans at the end. Rom and Coleman had the guts to applaud Gwladys Street and they got some applause back but a number of people booed Colman. how does that help? Don't be moaning about loyalty when these players go elsewhere. We should be behind these lads who are working their shocks off trying to get results. The fans only play a small part in detertmining results but we need to play that part well.
When players get frustrated, lose their heads and say/do stupid things we go berserk at their stupidity. Call the fans out for the same thing and all of a sudden everyone gets defensive. We need to look at ourselves too. The fans are not immune from critism just because we pay our money every week.
338 Posted 29/12/2015 at 20:07:52
That's Martinez's job description and I expect him to be our manager for the next 10 years, just like trophyless Moyes.
We need to remember that Moyes could have easily decided to remain our manager for another 10 years with no pressure on him to win anything.
339 Posted 29/12/2015 at 22:11:00
340 Posted 30/12/2015 at 13:57:04
I have to agree with the people on here who point the finger at the manager and say his time is now up. Sorry but this was meant to be the run of 'easy' games where we sweep all before us and climb the table to CL positions. Not really happened has it and the buck stops with him.
We just cannot defend to save our lives and this means, however good we are going forward, we will draw or lose more games than win, just like his Wigan team. It's like the wonder goal from Shaquiri - Howard should have been at the edge of his area clearing that out when he saw Galloway wasn't going to make it but he just backed off. The winning goal was a mistake from Grandad Barry - trying to cushion a big hoof out of the sky rather than just getting his head on it and clearing it.
It's a joke and the time has come for change. All the Martinez supporters asked for time when we wanted him out last year - well he's had it and we're still dealing with the same old problems now.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.