Aston Villa 1 - 3 Everton
Funes Mori scored one and created another as the Blues overcame Villa
Everton earned their fifth away victory in the Premier League with a 3-1 win over relegation-haunted Aston Villa thanks to goals by Ramiro Funes Mori, Aaron Lennon and Romelu Lukaku.
The Blues barely got out of second gear after taking an early lead when Funes Mori rose to plant a free header past Brad Guzan but doubled their lead with a swift counter-attacking goal that was side-footed home by Lennon.
Lukaku made sure of the points with an hour gone and although Villa's efforts were rewarded with a goal from Rudy Gestede, Roberto Martinez's men were able to close out the game.
Martinez made one change from the starting XI at Bournemouth, with Kevin Mirallas coming in for Tom Cleverley who also wasn't among the substitutes, apparently due to illness.
The Blues got off the perfect start when Kevin Mirallas swung in a corner from the left and Ramiro Funes Mori powered home a free header.
Though they had the lead, Everton struggled to find any rhythm and Villa eventually found their feet midway through the second half.
Funes Mori's tackle on Gaby Agbonlahor saw the ball cannon towards Robles who made instinctive parry before the Spaniard had to be called into action again to push a 25-yard effort behind from a corner.
The first dead-ball delivery caught Robles flat-footed as it flew out to the other side off an Everton player and Micah Richards's acrobatic scissor-kick drifted narrowly past the post as the visitors struggled to clear their lines.
A minute or so later, another give-away in midfield allowed Bacuna to try his luck from outside the box but Robles made a decent stop with a diving catch.
Everton showed their quality on the half-hour mark, however, when they attacked at speed through Mirallas down the left and he picked out Lennon with a superb low cross that the winger tucked away with a first-time finish from a central position in front of goal.
2-0 was almost 3-0 when Barkley found Mirallas and his initial shot was spilled by Guzan and Lukaku almost snatched up the rebound. The ball fell to Oviedo from a tight angle but Lescott cleared it off the line.
The second half was a quiet affair for the first quarter of an hour but Everton suddenly caught fire again when Lennon crossed beautifully for Lukaku who looked certain to score but Guzan turned his header wide with a reaction save.
When the resulting corner came through to Funes Mori on the far side, however, he had oceans of space to pick out a driven cross that Lukaku converted from close range.
Villa responded with an attack of their own that saw Westwood smash a goalbound shot that ricocheted off Jagielka and behind, with the same player bouncing an effort wide from the resulting corner.
After John Stones came on for Seamus Coleman with a quarter of an hour to go, Oviedo went down with an ankle injury and was off the field when a deep cross from the Villa right was powered past Robles by Rudy Gestede.
After quelling more pressure from the Villains, Everton pushed forward in the closing stages and Mirallas volleyed Lukaku's clipped ball off a defender for a corner before being withdrawn in favour of Oumar Niasse.
Back at the other end, Gestede caused more grief with a knock-down that Ayew hammered goalwards and Robles parried away to safety.
There was time for another chance for Funes Mori when the ball dropped to him following another corner but Guzan foiled him with a point-blank stop.
Full details: ToffeeWeb match page
Reader Comments (214)
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1 Posted 01/03/2016 at 18:53:33
4 0 to the blues
2 Posted 01/03/2016 at 18:53:55
I just hope that Mirallas takes his opportunity and has a great game.
Anything less than a thumping good win tonight is bad. Can`t imagine how Martinez would spin it if god forbid we lost this one tonight.
3 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:05:32
4 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:06:42
5 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:10:08
6 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:10:57
9 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:17:15
10 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:19:29
11 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:21:26
Can't believe Oviedo is keeping Baines out of the side.
12 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:32:18
13 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:32:26
If Moshiri has fallen in love with Everton over 18 months, and if he knows his football as has been reported, Martinez is on borrowed time.
This squad would be in top 6 minimum, not 12th, time for Martinez to deliver. By that I don't mean the FA Cup, which would be great, however, Moshiri will probably give him the rest of the season, and then look elsewhere. Not sure where, but there will be plenty of speculation!!!
14 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:34:22
All I'm saying is why the change in thinking now?
A bit coincidental wouldn't you say?
15 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:37:41
16 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:37:49
Basically what has happened is that RM has gone from a guaranteed job under BK to suddenly over the last couple of days having a new fella at the helm who knows his stuff and probably won't hesitate to pull the trigger if he feels that RM has this squad under achieving.
18 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:45:10
19 Posted 01/03/2016 at 19:58:47
20 Posted 01/03/2016 at 20:02:54
Long may it continue.
21 Posted 01/03/2016 at 20:39:30
Oviedo is playing well, part of a unit not conceding many goals. With us playing week to week, no need to rotate at the moment.
22 Posted 01/03/2016 at 20:49:17
Fair play to Villa, they are playing okay and showing some much needed fight.
23 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:19:22
Jon, I do believe it is just a coincidence.
24 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:19:25
25 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:45:21
Onwards and upwards, we go 8th I believe, with 3 home games to come.
26 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:45:29
27 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:47:50
When you start in second gear, it can be difficult to get out of it.... and that's how it looked.
28 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:50:20
Funes Mori has been a major bonus this season. Credit to our scouts/Martinez for that one.
29 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:52:44
Villa fought more but we had more quality.
Robles looking a decent keeper Jags and Funes Mori very decent. Can't argue with Lennon or Mirallas either.
30 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:53:15
Still, a win's a win I suppose. I can't remember ever being so frustrated after a big away win!
Villa are gone.
31 Posted 01/03/2016 at 21:54:09
33 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:02:13
Still convinced we need a first choice keeper because Joel Robles for me isn't the answer... where was he for that corner? I doubt that he knows. But 3 points is 3 points.
34 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:02:34
If we could just stop giving the ball away cheaply and needlessly we'd be a team to be reckoned with.
WHU will be a much bigger test.
35 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:02:37
36 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:02:52
Martinez must have been the only man in football who could not see the effect Howard was having on the team.
Thankfully the players have started to deliver on their word and we can enjoy these wins, but you can't help wondering how differently it would all have been if we'd had a semi-decent manager.
37 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:03:00
But on an unrelated note, I was just wondering who people think Moshiri should hire if/when he decides to pull the plug on Bobby?
38 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:06:21
39 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:06:39
40 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:06:39
41 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:08:04
10 corners to Villa. Does not inspire me for West Ham.
42 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:08:47
43 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:10:27
Our boring, laboured, pedestrian football the manager advocates has seen us scoring more goals from open play than any other team in the Premier League.
44 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:10:44
Villa dragged us down to their level in many ways it was a bit like watching an England qualifier against a smaller European country.
45 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:11:24
46 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:11:31
Your post is ridiculous. Did you think we were just going to turn up tonight and roll them over? We did a good, professional job away from home for 70 minutes. We took our foot off the pedal at the end, giving Baines, Stones and Niasse a run out. But for God's sake, keep things in perspective. We won 3-1 FFS!!
47 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:11:33
Why do we have to think defensive? Also, does he know, the more you attack, the less defensive work you should do, due to the person marking you being forced to think defensive?
48 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:12:26
49 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:12:54
50 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:15:44
We didn't start in 2nd gear! We were 1-0 up after 5 minutes!
Some very strange posts here tonight. We had a good team selection, looked a lot more balanced. A good, professional job carried out away from home. 3 points in the bag. And yet some people still want more.
That was never going to be easy tonight. Those Villa fans were baying for blood. Thankfully the first goal killed them tonight.
51 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:16:52
Lennon was Man of the Match. He never stops working. One or two could learn from him. Far too lethargic at times which is really frustrating. I am sure we will be more focused for the next few games. We will have to be. I think Europe will be out of reach for us, but you never know. Here's hoping...
52 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:18:59
The worst you've seen us this season?!
53 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:23:10
There were a few moments in the game where, if they got an early goal, it could have really changed the dynamics of the game. But that said, a good 3 points, getting the job done.
Up and up hopefully! COYB
54 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:28:27
I think Martinez has raised the expectations of the fans, to such an extent that we win 3-1 away from home and some are not happy. It was far from a classic performance, but it was a professional performance to gain a comfortable win.
55 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:30:09
Don't stress about it. Some people are never satisfied. If they were at Jesus's last supper, they'd still be asking for ketchup.
56 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:30:53
57 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:32:09
'Some very strange posts here tonight'
Par for the course, Danny, they scream blue murder when we lose, and complain when we win.
Only one team has scored more than us, and we've stopped leaking goals lately, long may it last.
58 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:32:42
We probably should've worked out the shape by now... but in any case, we seem able to drop in and out a number of players and it doesn't make a lot of difference.
Another 3 points in the bag... who knows where we will finish?
59 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:32:50
I love it when we score 3 goals in a game;
I love it when Rom scores;
I love that we're moving up the table;
I love that we're above the RedShite.
If you're not happy after tonight, I actually feel a bit sorry for you.
60 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:35:38
I expect there will be a considerable step up in tempo against a good West Ham side. Here's hoping for a run of good fortune and some ambitious play to get the crowd going again on Saturday. Tell you what, string a few wins together and 7th is not out of reach for Europe!
61 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:38:20
We haven't won an away game in the Premier League by four goals since West Ham in 2000. The RedShite had a cup final a week after they won 6-0 at Villa and they didn't take their foot off the gas in the second half.
All-in-all, I till think we are a poor side who only seem to beat fellow poor sides this season. Martinez can't motivate them for 90 minutes.
62 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:39:33
63 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:39:52
I love being above the reds, but let's face it, they are shite and their league position proves it.
Yes, I enjoyed us scoring 3 and winning a game but, fuck me, it's Villa and they are awful.
Yes, we are moving up the table, but unfortunately it's too late to matter.
I'm happy today, but we're papering cracks.
64 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:41:47
65 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:44:22
We continue to give teams (even shit, nervous teams like Villa) too much time (to collect the ball in the middle, turn, look up and move forward).
We continue to be out-muscled and panicked and at times, too be (seemingly) hypnotized back towards our own goal.
Often the 'plan' at the back seems to be no plan.
Thought Lennon did very well (again) and I like that Funes Mori wants to score and get involved.
Barry worked hard and there were a couple of good saves from Robles who, though not big Nev, hopefully will continue to grow in confidence with each appearance.
A bigger test on Saturday (I'm guessing).
Up the Toffees!
66 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:44:41
3 points in the bag tho away from home so can't complain.
67 Posted 01/03/2016 at 22:55:01
Further evidence I think that (Kings Dock aside... oh, and dodging the DK disaster) old Bill hasn't done too badly in the end has he. Ahem.
Should I start to wonder if we can now afford Rooney's wages? And if we can... If we can add 2 or 3 'top' class players in the summer... who knows.
68 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:05:02
Thanks mate, I'm not stressed! I am just amazed at some of the comments on here. Like the guy who thought we started in 2nd gear? We were 1-0 after 5 minutes! 2-0 after 30 minutes!
I am honestly wondering if some people have ever played the game on this thread because, at any level of football, you never get a performance which is absolute perfection and one way traffic. It's very hard to be winning 3-0 after an hour and maintain that tempo and go on to score 5 or 6. It's just human nature to ease off.
Would anyone honestly burst a gut to keep a ball in play when we are 3-0 up, with as much effort as if we were 1-0 down? It simply doesn't happen. Yet some people on here bemoan the fact that we didn't win by 4, or 5 or 6. The subs start coming on and the game is as good as over when you are 3-0 up just see the game out and that's it.
69 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:05:55
70 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:16:46
71 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:23:18
For long periods tonight, we were shite. We couldn't string 3 passes together and it was Keystone cops at the back again on numerous occasions. As I said, sloppy all over the pitch.
Maybe not the worst this season but definitely the most boring. I'm fine with building from the back but the amount of fucking about was incredible.
I'm happy with our win and 3 more points but if it's okay, I'll be unhappy with our performance against easily the worst team in the league.
72 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:23:53
Or better still.....let's get in a proper manager. Let's get in a real top name. Surely Everton should be at least thinking about that. Tonight was three points. Thats great...But can Martinez be trusted to do that against better teams? Can he get his tactics right against Chelsea in a few weeks time? Can he be trusted to not tinker too much? Can he get Lukaku into a game more? Play to the big mans strengths. (Yes ,it is good that Lukaku is scoring.....but I still think that he is not at full throttle). This Everton team has much ,much more to offer. Is Martinez really the best manager to fufil that potential? Not in my opinion. Not on the evidence of the last 18 months. I half Expect a defeat soon. Most likely at Goodison. I really hope that I am wrong. But.....let's see.
Three points tonight....good. I trust the majority of this bunch of players to do a job for Everton...no problem there. But do I trust Martinez and his Wigan backroom staff???.......well frankly....No. Very stubborn tactically. Slow to recognise things are not working, and slow to change tactics. No plan B. There never was one. Will he start playing favourites again? Will our new man at the helm be as dopey as BK.(and watch Everton arse about in mid table). I doubt it. Interesting times ahead. Can Martinez up his game?
What's the wee fat waiter doing nowadays? Or how about throwing a tempting offer to Leicester or Spurs. Let's see how any of those two managers might fancy a chance to manage Everton. Why not? Money available soon for players. Why not a top manager? Martinez is not in their league. He never will be.
I am not really grumpy after a good away win. No way. But I do think that this season has been a wasted opportunity. Why was the first half of the season squandered? Why did Martinez keep playing TH. What's going on with Mirallas? Yes we have been unlucky at times. But the team and manager brought a lot of crap on themselves. But this has been a good week. Keep Martinez in check. And we might just finish strong.......I think.
73 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:25:17
I have always liked Villa, I like their kit, their tradition which is linked up with us as the most played top flight match and their fans know their stuff. It's a dreadful state of affairs when their fans are leaving in the thousands when 3-0 down and they are relegated basically by Xmas. For many years they were a bogey team of ours (like Coventry and Sheffield Wednesday) but I really hope they come back much quicker. To think in 2009 we were battling it out with them in the League in the Top 6 and beating them in the FA Cup and now they are in this woeful position.
Onto us, our Argentinian centre half is becoming a revelation. Lennon is also having a great spell. Martinez has mostly signed well without his Wigan tinted spectacles on and McGeady.
I'm still in the Martinez In group but we seriously need to finish Top 8 and beat Chelsea next week to convince me. Otherwise, I am sure there is someone out there who can do better with these players because the amount of surrenders this season has been depressing.
74 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:31:58
That's exactly the point!!!
75 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:33:25
I was at Old Trafford in 77 when Villa beat us in the League Cup Final, so I always get an extra buzz at beating them.
We'll up our game against West Ham, I'm expecting a brilliant game and a 4-2 win.
76 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:34:36
So in 90 minutes at Villa, we scored the same number of goals as Leicester, Man City and Arsenal did in 270 minutes combined.
So it's all very well being less than satisfied with certain elements of our performance, but to have a go simply because we didn't smash them for 5 or 6 does come across rather like complaining just for the sake of it.
Sometimes you just have to grind these games out.
We're not Barcelona (yet).
77 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:37:50
I suppose how we view this season now depends mainly on the FA Cup results. I'm not particularly bothered whether we finish 7th or 9th, both positions are mid-table really. If we want European football via the Premier League, then 6th may do it, but I can't see it.
Amazingly (if you want to look on the positive side) we have only lost the same amount of games as Man City, and scored a hatful. Draws and games thrown away by sloppy defending have cost us dearly. Our goal difference should have us right amongst the top four teams. As ever, a big game on Saturday.
Can Martinez fix the defence? Some are dead set against giving him another season, but his signings have generally been very good, so I am prepared to see what he can do with possibly a top 'keeper, and another experienced centre-half.
78 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:42:10
The performance, let's be honest, wasn't brilliant but more than good enough to beat that shocking side. If we had conceded those three goals we'd be absolutely livid at the lack of effort. That side is going down very, very deservedly and I feel for their supporters watching the lack of effort. It wasn't a professional performance facing a team who are fighting for their lives as they've got no fight in them.
With us, we got the dream start and then figured we'd just dominate possession but it was all too slow. Players were having to wait for the ball as it dribbled along the grass. Villa had little fight but we gave them a leg up. No surprise that our second came from a quick break - in possession we were so ponderous that even Villa's collection of pay packets could deal with it.
Some undoubted positives and a welcome three points. We can't get complacent thinking that's the level for us though.
79 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:49:47
"So it's all very well being less than satisfied with certain elements of our performance, but to have a go simply because we didn't smash them for 5 or 6 does come across rather like complaining just for the sake of it."
It is more about we were shite again and the man making mad substitutions.
Here is the point: to not complain about certain aspects, in my eyes, is to accept and be satisfied. Many of us are far from satisfied, so vent spleens are the order of the day/season.
80 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:50:24
81 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:52:17
82 Posted 01/03/2016 at 23:57:54
As is the fact that we've won 5 in 6 scoring 14 and conceding 2.
I hope we carry on being this shite mate!
83 Posted 01/03/2016 at 00:03:11
Raymond (#44), who are this "they" you refer to. Enemies of Everton? Perhaps supporters who saw us labour against one of the worst sides the Premier League has ever seen. Raymond, we all want the same thing.
84 Posted 01/03/2016 at 00:09:35
And I share the opinion of our Nev; this season 6th'll be the very best we can "achieve" and for us, this season in particular, and even before the acquisition of Mr Moshiri into our club, that is unacceptable.
That said, 6th'll have to do, minimum.
85 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:12:51
I am so happy we played shite against the bottom team and scored more than the three teams you mentioned. Those same three teams occupy three of the top four places. We are mid table.
Sorry, Ill stop now, I am talking utter nonsense.
86 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:13:56
He has four goals to his name now and an assist as well tonight. There's just something about him that says he wants to be a winner and he was definitely my mom tonight. For me, his name should now be one of the first on the team sheet with Jags and Stones competing to play alongside him.
Let's not forget he is an Argentine international too and they tend to know what they're doing with their team selection too.
87 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:13:58
Onwards and upwards. :)
88 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:19:03
We played like strangers for long periods but it was better than dominating and losing 1-0. The lads should hopefully have recovers from their extended holiday to be up for the Hammers...
89 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:22:52
90 Posted 01/03/2016 at 00:24:18
There are some positives, e.g. 3pts and, despite plenty of stick on the live forum Lukaku's heading and touch has improved.
Most of our wins come away from home or against very poor (at the time) teams or the bottom 3. I was going to mention Stoke A as the exception, but on reflection they were on a bit of a mini slump.
If the new owners are 'results driven' then the manager must get a big tick for tonight.
But if they look beyond that they might see that for all our possession, many of our goals come on the quick break, most of our decent results come as a result of LESS possession.
Yeah, but Manager has us doing this 'Great Attacking Play'...look at the GD...all a bit cart before the horse. Bobby doesn't have us doing 'great attacking' - He has us playing 'The Philosophy.'
The great attacking comes as a result of that...but so does the poor defending ( look at the GA ffs). As the Philosophy won't / can't stand for more than the barest tinkering (Howard, Stones & Baines, strangely - conveniently 'injured') The defensive frailty will never go away, nor will the mid table finishes...One of many tough decisions the new boss must make.
Stones though, *holdsnose; we have to hope form is temporary and class is permanent.
So, all in all, we have found that it is possible for us to play badly and win...but only if the opposition are playing worse.
91 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:24:23
92 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:25:12
Totally agree on the keeper situation. The manager's appalling handling of that has totally sabotaged our season and just leaves an overwhelming feeling of, "what if"?
93 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:26:12
In my opinion, it's no guide. We've lost 4 of our last 6 at home. Our away form is good.
In our last 10 games we've lost 3 times. All at home, against Stoke, Swansea and West Brom.
It's like being happy on payday without thinking that it's all going on bills over the next few days.
I'm still always happy on payday, just like tonight.
Now if we were to put in a good performance against West Ham that would be like suddenly reducing your mortgage payment... is anyone confident that we will?
94 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:32:55
95 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:46:24
A midtable side producing a half decent performance against the worst team in the league and people are pleased?
Result = good. Form = average. Season = poor.
I'll enjoy the result without getting even slightly carried away.
96 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:53:24
97 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:53:48
I thought Lennon, Barry and Funes Mori were our stand-out players tonight.
Can anyone tell me why their fans chose the 74th minute to walk out?
98 Posted 02/03/2016 at 01:33:45
I'm sixty. I was a lad in 1970, 30 in '85 and 40 when we last won anything. Despite all the disappointment apart from those brief interludes of success I am 100% certain that this squad has got everything it takes to have produced way more than it now can do this season. We have a talented pool of players but there's a turd in the pool and it needs to be removed before we can hit the heights.
It's as if Martinez as a chef was given top notch ingredients but still produced boring, tasteless meals. Why would anyone pay for that, let alone consume it and come back again and again?
99 Posted 02/03/2016 at 01:47:03
It's because their team was founded in 1874.
On another note, what's the deal with Geri? I realize Lennon is playing well but surprised he's not being used as a late sub.
100 Posted 02/03/2016 at 02:29:31
We look like we've now turned that corner to some extent. It's however, too little, too late for this season unless we win the FA Cup and finish in the top half.
I'm not being a Martinez apologist in this post. I've had major misgivings since the Swansea home embarrassment, but he's the manager until the end of the season and I genuinely believe we're on the cusp of evolving from a talented inconsistent young side into a great side. So we should see where we are at the end of the season before talking about replacements.
Behind his idiosyncrasies, I still think there's a good manager in there who's building the club from the bottom up. He's also the manager who's buying the players like Lukaku, Deulofeu, Lennon, Funes Mori, Galloway, Besic and McCarthy.
Martinez's transfer acumen cannot be questioned on the basis of Kone, McGeady and Alcaraz (£7m combined fees); Martinez is up there with Moyes in transfer business. He's bought better than Walter Smith, Mike Walker, Howard Kendall Mk3, and even Joe Royle who IMO bought a few duffers (Earl Barrett, Marc Hottiger and Claus Thomsen who could all be contenders for an Everton worst 11.
Just on his ability to put this side together, Martinez has something about him. The question is still the defence. There's no problem scoring so let's hope that now that now we've seen the last of Tim Howard, and John Stones is now seen as a mere mortal who can be dropped, and players are playing more on the basis of form, it's now onwards and upwards.
101 Posted 02/03/2016 at 02:38:29
"I think Martinez has raised the expectations of the fans to such an extent that we win 3-1 away from home and some are not happy."
Really, Paul? Roberto has sent expectations soaring? Shit! I must be totally out of touch then, because for large parts of the last 18 months I've found myself going into games half expecting them to play out something like this:
...and when they don't (like tonight) I just feel... well, relieved... more than anything.
102 Posted 02/03/2016 at 02:59:10
103 Posted 02/03/2016 at 03:50:07
That said, I don't think that much has been aimed at Martinez tonight? Of course there are some who would blame him for the sun setting but generally it's a contrast between being pleased with the result and questioning the season as the bigger picture.
I've criticised Roberto a lot. I still think he's focused far more on development than results with a team that is capable of getting results.
But tonight when the tempo dropped I'm not sure you can blame Roberto. He couldn't possibly tell them to play at such a ponderous pace. It still feels like we need that player who dictates the pace of the game, much as Arteta used to from his deeper midfield role.
Now you could argue it's his job to sign that player, but you would also have to acknowledge the signings that he has made and the players that he's brought through.
104 Posted 02/03/2016 at 04:45:54
We put it in neutral as the game was clearly in hand. Our intensity levels and work rate dropped appallingly low.
We're not a good enough side to allow that mindset to creep in.
Again, after the game was completely under control. So I say three points away, good result, but lets fire up the engines next game please.
105 Posted 02/03/2016 at 05:01:21
106 Posted 02/03/2016 at 05:09:34
David Oldfield (#29). A disappointing 3-1 win, to be honest,
Words fail me.
Funes Mori MotM is our best defender since Dave Watson and possibly Rats/Mounty.
Lennon/Coleman has the feel I think of Baines/Pienaar but with more defensive savvy see Aaron, I think it was around '91 the last defender.
A thoroughly clinical and professional performance.
If this is a 'crisis' season look at goal difference, goals scored, points behind 5th, away record, 7 defeats same as Man City and Man Utd then I can't wait for a partly crisis season.
107 Posted 02/03/2016 at 05:56:11
We did get a few into the middle of the box. You'd hope that represents just improved crossing rather than a tactic. If hitting the first man was a tactic previously then it deserved to be binned sooner given we clearly couldn't score from them.
Defensively I don't know if we were much better. I recall one clanger from a corner where Joel got caught in traffic. And we still conceded from a hopeful hanger into the box. Probably just a bit better than the norm with the Gods smiling on us.
108 Posted 02/03/2016 at 06:11:09
When Unsy is instructed to tell an 18-year-old to up his pass possession stats, you know something is not quite right... but when this youngster is able to reel off the pass possession stats of senior players, it begins to sound like a deadly creeping virus.
109 Posted 02/03/2016 at 06:45:23
If your expectations were not raised by all those hard fought narrow home defeats against mighty teams like Stoke and West Brom then you are simply refusing to give the manager the credit he deserves.
I bet you're one of those 37,000 who regularly come out of Goodison Park feeling cheated because you didn't see the wisdom of sticking with Tim Howard.
The cunning plan of not balancing the team up.
The substitutions designed to confuse.
The half-arsed way in which some of our players react when they have given the ball away.
The clever isolation of our centre-forward which enables us to play 7 players who are secretly being coached to understand that, although they can't contribute to attack, they don't have to defend either. It's all about keeping the ball...
You, my friend, go the match too often. You are foolishly giving some thought to what you are witnessing.
I'm sorry, mate, but you don't deserve to have your expectations raised.
110 Posted 02/03/2016 at 07:18:42
My point being the last manager got us into an average 7/8th finishing position with the odd semi final where we shit ourselves. And he was our saviour.
This manager has us in the same position and he should be sacked?
The clever isolation of our centre-forward sees us as the top Premier League goal scorers from open play as well. That one is obviously not working.
That's great how you put YouTube on the post, so good I give it a go myself. This was the video I was dancing to last night on the final whistle:
111 Posted 02/03/2016 at 07:28:17
Were we convincing? Yep, we were... because Villa are dead men walking and 1-3 was a fuckin stroll, it really was.
What score were the whiners expecting? 0-7 (one better than "Bingo" and "The Banana Splits"? Link )
0-37 (one better than Arbroath put over Bon Accord?)
Overall, I like Martinez. He can sort out our defence, it won't take much, but if he doesn't bother this season then he can phone his own taxi. Shame, 'cos I far prefer him over the turgid, bottler, predecessor.
As RM rightly gestured at his press conference..... Everton have stepped it up..... ALL departments take note, with immediate effect.
112 Posted 02/03/2016 at 07:44:12
I've slated RM a few times but still want him to do well, I think the sheer wave of frustration and criticism has made him have to tweak his approach a little, he now needs to develop 'Philosophy B' and 'Philosophy C'!
113 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:03:53
He is almost there, only right he is given the chance to complete the project.
114 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:15:51
As for some people slagging Martinez, I'm not his biggest fan and sometimes his subs and tactics piss me off. He is young and still learning. I believe with the right backing he can get us back to the top. Didn't it take Sir Alex 'WhiskeyNose' 4 years to win anything at Man Utd?
115 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:25:22
116 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:34:13
"My point being the last manager got us into an average 7/8th finishing position with the odd semi final where we shit ourselves.And he was our saviour.
This manager has us in the same position and he should be sacked?"
What a load of crap, Moyes took us from relegation scrappers to an average of 7/8th and kept us there. Martinez has one fifth place, one 11th and we are currently in 10th. Hardly the same thing.
In his years with the club how many times did Moyes finish outside of the top 8 two years running? Martinez is in danger of doing it within his first three years.
With 11 games to go he has already lost more games in his three seasons than Moyes did in his last three seasons at the club.
People wanting him to get sacked might be looking at things a bit clearer than you are.
117 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:34:43
'First half good. Second half poor.'
Sufferin' succotash! If that first half was 'good', I daren't watch the second! I only caught the first 45 before work...sounds like it was for the best. Honestly, I thought we were dire. If it was a one-off, I'd take the result with no questions asked. Sadly, it was the same, mundane, halted stuff that has become the norm. Followed by 20 minutes at the end clinging on for dear life.
Barkley, Mirallas, Lennon, Lukaku...if that team doesn't scream COUNTER ATTACK then I don't know what does. We did it ONCE and scored.
Somebody please remove this idiot from the helm.
118 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:37:27
As to the game, I can completely see why some posters are unhappy. The game was a slow tepid dull affair. I don't agree that we started in 2nd gear. I thought we started very brightly, chased down the ball and did look full of energy. However, as soon as we scored, we did what we almost always do, which is take the foot off the pedal and give the opposition a sniff of a way back into the game. Let's not forget that Villa had chances at 1-0 down and also 2-0 down. Robles made good saves and the defence fucked around getting caught in possession.
Now, if this was an isolated incident, then I don't think people wouldn't be too bothered, but it's not. We never kill a game off. We fuck around, slow the game down to a standstill and generally give the opposition a chance to get back into the game. See Bournemouth, Norwich, Chelsea etc.
We beat Villa last night, not Man City, RS or any half-decent team. Reading some people's comments, you would think we had beat the world's best. We did this when we beat Villa at home. We extolled how great we are, how good we were on the ball, and promptly fell flat on our face when we faced a half-decent team. Oh how quickly the West Brom game is forgotten.
For all those calling for Martinez's head, I totally agree. I do agree that he has brought decent players to the club, but has he moulded them into a team? No, absolutely not. Has he learned how to set up a team to score and not concede? No absolutely not. He still says as much that he is not interested in a clean sheet. That statement alone should see he does not remain in charge of any top flight club, let alone our club with our history and tradition.
If we ever wish to challenge for top 4, titles and trophies (not out of the question after this week's news) then you have to keep clean sheets and pay attention to defence. You can't just say "We shall score more than you". It never works. Even the great Dutch team that played so-called total football never won anything.
We should have steamrolled Villa last night but we just didn't have it in us. This is not a work in progress, as some would have us believe. We are a mid-table team who can beat the poor teams and struggle against the half-decent teams. Results over the last two seasons prove that. We can have the occasional decent result but, let's face it, so can anyone.
Consistently, we are average at best when we should be so much better, given the players we have at our disposal. Martinez's "work in progress" has seen us slip down the league, get us walloped in a semi-final when we were 3-1 up, seen fortress Goodison reduced to a whisper and seen us waste another Premier League season. (Anybody who thinks we will finish top 4/6 really does live in Martinez's world...)
People soon forget how poor we have been this season and last. This season alone I can probably count the games, full games, that we have played well. We have seen so much dross. The most frustrating thing is that we can see that this is a team bursting to come out of its shell and play well for a full 90 minutes but is being inhibited by Martinez and his god awful tactics. Get rid and get someone in who can finally realise the team's full potential.
119 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:42:39
5+11+10 = 26 divided by 3 = 8 .
Moyes finished 17th I believe in his 2nd season?
120 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:49:26
Personally I think Martinez has put the best Everton squad together I have seen in many years. When was the last time we could put out such a strong starting 11 and have a really strong bench to back it up.
The performance wasn't our best, but it didn't have to be. We won without playing anywhere near our top gear, which is a good sign. You only get 3 points wether you win 3-1 or 6-0.
My only gripe is the subs, I would have liked to see Niasse given at least 20 minutes at the end.
121 Posted 02/03/2016 at 08:50:24
As the Sky co-commentator said last night, Everton make problems for themselves defensively by holding onto the ball too long at the back, inviting the opposition onto them. I'm all for playing the ball out from the back where sensible but there's no doubt we overcook it sometimes.
On one occasion last night, Funes Mori realised that the pressure on the backline was intensifying and simply hoofed it diagonally 40-50 yards. It was agricultural but it relieved a potentially dangerous situation. It is his defending rather than Stones's cultured play that has improved the defence of late.
Somehow though, I think Martinez is thinking of a way of re-accommodating Stones (and possibly Baines too) in any way he can. It's a dilemma, I know... but I would leave things as they are right now. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
122 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:13:10
Oh... wait a minute didn't he follow that up with a 4th place in his third season? Will Martinez achieve that do you think? His next four seasons got us a 6th place and two 5th-place finishes, again will Martinez manage 4 top 6 finishes in 6 years?
In my humble opinion, the only thing that he is likely to match from Moyes's first 6 years is two finishes outside of the top 8. But they were the only two finishes outside of the top 8 that Moyes had in 11 years at Everton.
You must be desperate to cling on to your belief that Martinez is doing well.
123 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:20:22
I didn't ignore them, I thought they were irrelevant to the point I was making.
Can I ask: Would you swap Moyes for Martinez?
124 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:23:25
I didn't follow the game last night as I was playing 5-a-side. We have a few Villa fans on our team and I genuinely feel sorry for them. A proper football club being run into the ground.
125 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:25:52
Second top scorers is meaningless. Best goal difference outside the top 4 is more meaningful and the point people on here are missing.
RM bashing has become a habit for many people. Leaking goals yes, a very healthy goal difference, yes.
Thanks for feeling sorry for me. It's the people who are always pissed off and whinging that I feel sorry for.
126 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:28:30
Why shouldn't we? It's pretty obvious Bobby has too many shortcomings to take us to the next level; your undying loyalty should be to Everton, not Martinez... shouldn't it?
127 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:36:23
The last 10 games: Won 5, 3 of which have been against the powerhouses that are Villa, Newcastle and Carlisle;
Drew 2, against Chelsea we were 2-up twice;
Lost 3, 2 at home against the mighty Swansea and West Brom.
Not exactly the recent form that will get us Champions League that your hero claimed he would get us into.
Most managers reckon it takes 3 years to get their team to a position where they can show their potential. Well, we are almost 3 years in to your hero's tenure and I personally still can't see a great improvement.
A lot of posters say this team are the best we've had for a generation well, that's open to debate, I'd say, based on this season's form.
No point having a great goal difference if we are mid bloody table. It's all about opinions and you see Martinez as some sort of Messiah that has brought some sort of phenomenal football to Goodison. I see a charlatan who is totally out of his depth
128 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:38:30
Personally, I feel we should be doing so much better and we should have much higher standards with this squad of players. Instead, excuses are constantly rolled out as to why we have not produced week after week, and why it will be so much better next week, next 12 games, next season, in 4 years time.
If you're happy with the dull tepid inane tippy-tappy shite we are forced to witness week after week, then fair enough. I'm not and won't be until we start to realise the vast potential of this team. Something Martinez doesn't appear to have a clue how to unlock. And no I also don't need to be patronised either, by you feeling sorry for us being pissed off.
129 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:41:37
130 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:51:08
131 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:51:20
"5+11+10 = 26 divided by 3 = 8 .Same position"
Actually 5+11+10 = 26 divided by 3 = 8.67.
By any standards of mathematics using rounding to the nearest whole number, this does not get rounded to 8 but should be rounded to 9.
132 Posted 02/03/2016 at 09:59:11
133 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:03:27
Even if Martinez was matching Moyes's league finishes (which he isn't so far) that would be a pretty poor achievement given the superiority of squad and resources that he inherited.
This squad is more than capable of finishing in the top 4 and the biggest problem I have with Martinez is that it's clear this season that he has not got the best out of them on a regular enough basis.
134 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:04:47
135 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:20:48
Contrast this to the domination versus West Brom, where we were far from clinical and occasionally ponderous and hence failed to score. The opposition barely had any chances and we still lost.
So the team is getting better at taking chances and this is a good sign.
Regarding the Martinez debate, I hope the purchase by the new man goes through, if only because of Martinez' acknowledgement that the weight of expectation on him has increased. This is the clearest signal that we could have continued to lumber around in mid-table and Martinez job was safe for so long as BK was in charge. Clearly, the new shareholder is unlikely to take such a stance if investment in the playing squad materialises. Martinez will have to deliver or he will be replaced. At least I hope that is the case.
136 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:22:45
My 'feeling sorry for you all' was actually in response to an earlier post. I wasn't patronising you directly, merely responding to a ridiculous post from an earlier poster.
In reply to you, I would say that you raise certain points I agree with, and would also say that what your post says to me, is a lack of patience, nothing more.
Martinez isn't perfect, but he certainly isn't the idiot many people seem to think he is. I believe (and a few others on here) that he's trying to play football the right way keeping the ball is a philosophy anyone who knows anything about football would agree is a good thing but of course I also agree with people on here that we need to be better defensively.
Personally I'm not one for simply attacking the manager regardless of results (we won 3-1 and people are still moaning about the performance this makes no sense to me) and I think his project is one to be admired in many ways football isn't a quick-fix sport. You can't just build a team over one summer and hope for it to all be rosey Leicester have been a one-off in my opinion.
Patience is what's required here I've really enjoyed our attacking flair this season, and when you look at the table, you can see that we're not far off.
You'll probably counter that with something about 'we should be right up there' or similar, but we're not. So what do we do? Fire the manager? Then what? How does that affect players? Stability is important. I'd wager that if RM was fired we'd definitely lose our top young players as a direct result. Given the recent share-sale, this is a time for cohesion, togetherness, stability and positivity a few values a lot of Evertonians appear to be currently overlooking.
137 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:23:44
What gems has Martinez unearthed?
138 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:29:46
Lukaku's found the net more than ever as has; Ross has created many chances. Deulofeu, Lennon, Cleverley, and Barry have all played extremely well this season, as has Besic when fit.
This is a different squad to what Moyes had, but maybe it is one with potential and youth, and not so much the end product yet. One that makes naive mistakes. It's like saying "Let's sack Pep Guardiola since he's not getting the 'best' out of an 18-year-old Messi."
139 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:33:49
Great squad; no Euro commitments and no improvement = failure.
140 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:43:14
Undoubtedly we have progressed as far as the quality of the players are concerned, as well as the attacking side of our game, but we are 10th in the table and that just isn't good enough.
Hopefully two or three top class signings will have us challenging for honours next year. At the moment, we just don't look like a force, we look too lightweight as though we could crumble at any moment.
141 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:46:32
We were rubbish last night and we have been all season. People are still posting about if RM sorts out this and that takes on board a serious facet of winning games, which is paying attention to defending. What he has said and shown after nearly three seasons, makes many of us think he will not change/adapt/evolve.
He will be pleased about last night and enjoy the 'moment' and 'action' blah fucking blah that he keeps going on about but there have been way too many shite moments that some so easily forget.
142 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:51:34
143 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:57:17
If we win the game then please just come on and post only positive messages. If we win, that means everything is good. If we lose then it's bad. Simple. Hardly worth discussing then is it?
In fact, why would we even bother watch the game. Just check the result and react accordingly. 10/10 for everyone.
I note that my sarcasm is likely to be annoying, it's meant to be. It's probably just as annoying as the "some people will never be happy" or the "we won, ffs" comments.
We won, I'm happy we won, I'm happy we have three points but THE PERFORMANCE IS NOT BEYOND CRITICISM.
144 Posted 02/03/2016 at 10:59:07
145 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:08:27
"Training with the first team is normal now. I treat it as if I'm training with the U21s. They're all sound with me".
Williams describes the high standards required of him and his team-mates from U21 manager David Unsworth, again with progression to Roberto Martinez's first team in mind.
"Players like Barry, McCarthy, Gibson, Besic, everyone, they've all got high 80s and 90% for pass completion rates", he continues, "So Unsy has been telling me that he wants me to get 90s every single week. He even told me that he wanted me to get 100."
So yes, Tony. Now we know why McCarthy seldom risks a forward pass and why Coleman dithers instead of crossing. It might ruin their pass completion rates. Amazing stuff indeed.
147 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:11:42
148 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:29:41
I would guess those who hailed Moyes as a 'saviour' probably did so on the back of the 'slumming it' position we were in when he took over and the far more respectable, less bum-clenching finishing places we found ourselves in thereafter. Now, I was never the biggest fan of the man, but there's absolutely no comparison at all between the hand Moyes was originally dealt and the one he later left on the table for someone else to pick up.
I know, generally, you always try to see the positive, Paul, but hailing every little victory as though it's some sort of vindication of the manager's methods is really pushing your luck. It's almost beginning to seem like you've resolutely stood behind Roberto for so long that you've begun to assimilate some of his attributes and they're now starting to show up in your posts.
How does highlighting the number of goals Lukaku has scored back up your claim that Martinez has caused expectations to soar amongst supporters? It may well sound impressive when taken in isolation but, like the manager, it seems you fail to realise that it means absolutely fuck all if improved results haven't followed on the back of it. We could score 'oooone meellion' goals and become the less picky neutral's most beloved source of entertainment since Shakin Stevens pissed off back through his green door, but if we only finish mid-table on the back of it then I'm still going to go 'meh, sounds like a load of old bollocks to me'.
How exactly is he "almost there" when he seemingly can't be arsed with half the job? You make it sound like Bobby set off on some thankless, daunting journey down a dead long deserted highway with the theme tune from First Blood tinkling away in the background. Well, maybe he should lift his fucking head up for a bit and he might realise he's actually been walking backwards and is now further away from his end goal than when he first set off?
Then there's your finding the simple integration of a YouTube link to be so impressive that you openly admit to trying to mimic it, only to then fail miserably to pull it off....which is a bit like Roberto buzzing his tits off over Barcelona's playing style and then....well, you know the rest.
149 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:29:56
Farhad will be watching closely. Have no doubt about his expectations. This man will invest his own money to make us the best he can be and not use us as a cash cow to fund other businesses, such as Groenke does at Arsenal which caused him to come to us.
At Man City, Mark Hughes was given a season to be assessed his ability at the top table, I can see the same here. Martinez will be given cash to spend on players of his choice, if he succeeds then we'll rejoice as one I'm sure. If he fails then Mr Moshiri will seek out the best for our great club.
To argue over Martinez and Moyes seems strangely reticent. Our future is now being designed, once the fire is truly lit, watch us go for trophies our history deserves...
150 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:48:12
With two other wins over Swansea and Sunderland thrown in (16th and 17th respectively in the league) then it is clear we struggle against teams that are basically not shit - 6 from 9 wins have come against the bottom clubs.
I'm glad to get the 3 points against Villa which goes towards our inevitable mid table finish but I'm not going to be fooled by a win against the worst team in the league that we've somehow turned a corner and Martinez has changed.
Our next three league games are; West Ham (H), Arsenal (H), Man Utd (A). Let's start getting results against teams not near the bottom before we start putting party hats on. Given our home performance this season, this weekend will be interesting to say the least. (Nevermind the cup game against a rejuvenated Chelsea.)
Lucky for Martinez that the Villa game came when it did to buy him some time before the next three fixtures. I'll be nicely surprised if we manage just one win from those three!
151 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:52:54
We have all played in games, when you hear the shout, keep the fucking ball, and it's something I would always advocate, but possession for possessions sake, is different.
It's good to keep the ball,and sicken the opposition, when your team has a good lead, but the way Everton do it under Martinez just kills the game and sickens the crowd. It doesn't have to be this way.
I think Dave Ganley, says it best, with his "WE HAVE A TEAM WHICH IS BURSTING TO COME OUT OF ITS SHELL" comment at post 113.
152 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:55:29
Can I take the opportunity to congratulate you on your psychoanalytical prowess. It comes across even better when presented with your biting wit.
I thought I was just giving an honest opinion.
153 Posted 02/03/2016 at 11:59:33
That is the point of rounding up or down. There are 50,000 men in UK with only 1 leg. Divide the number of legs that men in the UK have by the number of men in the UK and you get 1.99. But we don't see many guys walking around with 1.99 of a leg (well, maybe at Stoke).
154 Posted 02/03/2016 at 12:06:39
He has improved massively this season, in every part of his game, and I would also like to congratulate him on breaking the record for most goals scored in a Premier League season for Everton last night. But I still have my doubts.
He's still young, and offers loads more potential, but I do feel that the team, or maybe the teams system, has also been altered to bring more out of him this season.
Nothing wrong with that because it's obviously worked, but not always for the good of the team, I say. If Kone is not pushing up to help him, he just doesn't seem as effective; but, when Kone doesn't play, we seem so much more balanced.
Maybe it would be good business to sell him for the figures that are being quoted. Or would that be a backward step?
155 Posted 02/03/2016 at 12:17:43
Jags is a strong influence on the back line so that leaves Stones and Funes Mori fighting for the other spot. Our Argie is getting close to undroppable at the moment a goal and an assist last night so I wonder if the switch was to try to fit all three into our shape.
156 Posted 02/03/2016 at 12:22:18
People make it sound as if we play whole games playing attractive attacking football. In my humble opinion, we've spent much longer playing boring shite passing across the back 4 football going nowhere than attractive attacking football.
Martinez should not be lauded on the back of a result against Villa as being this phenomenal manager building a Club up from scratch and it being a work in progress. Martinez should be judged on where we are at the end of the season.
Only my opinion, of course, but he should have been binned last season. He's had this season to prove to me that he is unfit to manage my Club. Regardless of what happens for the remainder of the Premier League campaign he has royally fucked up this season for me again!!!
157 Posted 02/03/2016 at 12:22:34
Surely what Martinez should be concentrating on is building the attacking part of our game around Lukaku and bringing in the sort of players that would provide even more ammunition for him.
158 Posted 02/03/2016 at 12:49:25
You want to keep him; that's fine, he his a goal scorer after all, but when you say surely Martinez should be concentrating on building the attacking part of our game around Lukaku, I think he already has.
But it's not always been for the good of the team, as a whole, is what I'm saying, Andrew. And it is very much a team game.
159 Posted 02/03/2016 at 13:13:49
If he listens to Kenwright and takes notice of him then we are in for a lot more of this poor inflexible manager.
160 Posted 02/03/2016 at 13:36:47
If attempting to win games it counts a lot does it not. Try winning games without scoring! If you look at my post, I said we've stopped leaking goals recently.
Then they are the ones who every post they make have to criticise Martinez whatever topic or whatever the result. It's boring, and have many have said it's over the top. Your passionate in your opinion of Martinez, but please stop ramming it down readers' throats at every opportunity.
Give the guy some credit, he's brought Stones and Barkley through, add to them Galloway (nailed on top player) and Browning. Lukaku and Deulofeu have developed in his charge. Funes Mori, Lennon, Cleverley look shrewd signings, Besic, McCarthy, Robles likewise.
Maybe I'm too pro-Martinez, I accept that criticism, but my take on his performance since he took over is: first season excellent, record club points in Premier League; second season, the League, performance affected 3-4 places by involvement in the Europa League; third season, how far off being bang up there in the League, results are very often decided by very small margins, there's still 11 games to play, a lot can change yet.
Okay, you could say I'm making excuses, but that's how I see it.
Let's have a recount at the end of the season.
161 Posted 02/03/2016 at 13:43:47
And that's all the fuel some of you need ramp up the Roberto out cry?
Is there a direct link to TW from a chemical imbalance website?
162 Posted 02/03/2016 at 14:02:46
163 Posted 02/03/2016 at 14:24:37
Passing accuracy is fine in practice but surely we should not limit our players' creativity with that metric on the field.
164 Posted 02/03/2016 at 14:57:11
You may well be a bit pro-Martinez. The signs for Martinez's second season were there at the end of his first season. Your excuse for last season that we lost 3-4 places because of the Europa League... Do you mean like Spurs this season?
So far this season, well the table and our form doesn't lie. Our home form, tactics, subs have been quoted often enough. You are correct in that we should assess things at the end of the season and if the situation doesn't change much I suppose you'd give him yet another season?
More excuses and another season until he completes his job on us...
165 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:00:23
As far as pass accuracy figures go, I think you have to be very careful and I agree with Harold and Dennis that it is appearing to get a bit OTT at Everton.
Pushing for high figures is a good thing as long as it doesn't come at the expense of players trying to hit that killer pass. Quite often, the margins in that pass are so fine that there is a small degree of luck involved whether it will get past the defender.
I seem to remember a lot of criticism of Ossie when people quoted his passing accuracy because it was all sideways and backwards; now apparently that is what we should be looking for.
166 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:06:19
167 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:10:04
We will have to agree to disagree. I gave my long held season ticket up because of the dire, frightened football Moyes had us playing.
168 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:17:11
Saying he hasn't got the best out of them is surely pretty clear. No? Let me put it another way. This is a squad that should be finishing top 7 minimum. Anything else would be underachieving.
Yes the likes of Lukaku and Barkley have had good seasons but 'them' refers to the whole squad not just the players benefiting from the "We'll score more than you" philosophy. Have a look at Ranieri, Pochettino and Howe if you want examples of managers who have been getting the best out of players. Hope that clarifies it.
169 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:18:13
170 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:21:09
Spot on. The last two games, we have played Bournemouth reserves and the worst Villa team in living memory, we've done the job but but not particularly convincingly and quite frankly our playing style is boring and it won't be successful against anyone half-decent.
If we are to spend big bucks on new players in the Summer, I wouldn't give it to Martinez. Nothing will change; he's not the man take us forward.
171 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:21:19
I am sure Joe Williams was being completely open about being told how he needs to get his pass completion to 100%, he didn't realize what an indictment it is of RMs whole philosophy.
RM talks about playing without fear but in reality his 'without fear' philosophy also means always hit a safe pass rather than risk a more adventurous pass. That's why we see long bouts of interpassing between the back 4 and the centre-midfield players.
Yes, it's important to look after the ball, but not at the detriment of trying to play attacking football. I can well imagine Monday mornings at Finch Farm were all the pass completion stats are trawled over by RM and his coaching team.
Football is also supposed to be entertaining and not just about boring possession football, sometimes you can see our defenders and central midfield players never even looking to play a forward pass.
172 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:24:28
It's a matter of opinion again, but I would argue that Spurs squads are usually stronger than ours. Every ex pro with the exception of one said that being in a European competition affected their teams performances in the League, I can't see how it can help when you're travelling long distances midweek etc.
I think our players are getting off lightly as far as the criticism is concerned; after all, it's their performances as well as the manager's that determine the results.
173 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:34:42
174 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:50:52
We score loads, we concede loads, last minute winners, last minute controversy, last minute conceding of leads etc how is any of that boring?
175 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:51:35
In the league this season, their manager hasn't chopped and changed much and they appear to be getting stronger as the season progresses. In general, Spurs play at quite a high tempo for the full 90 minutes, we play in small patches.
Spurs don't appear to be suffering from their Europa League adventure. In fact, last season, Martinez continually said that the Europa League campaign had no bearing on our pathetic Premier League form, well not until the season ended.
This season, Martinez has been looking each week to explain why we have been getting the results we have been getting. Sometimes Raymond you just have to admit that we make mistakes at work and in life. You change things and get on with it. I think we just have to say Martinez hasn't come up with the goods.
He refuses to accept he needs to adjust or change and as such, he has to move on. He has not changed since the day he went into management so why would he change now ?
I reckon if Martinez stays next season, we will be having exactly the same conversation this time next year.
176 Posted 02/03/2016 at 15:57:48
177 Posted 02/03/2016 at 16:07:43
Neutrals love us. Practically every game this season has been packed with incident. There is not a second we're on the pitch when you can't see a goal coming either for or against us. 3-3s. 4-3s. That's entertainment. In fact, given that we've failed to win those high-scoring games, it's probably entertainment to our detriment.
Some people seem to equate entertaining football to pumping the ball long, and swinging in crosses every two minutes. Funnily enough, they didn't find it particularly interesting when we did exactly that under David Moyes.
I find goals exciting. And here are the only teams that have scored more goals than us this season in Europe's major leagues:
We're in pretty good company. By all means criticize the tactics or performance, but we're anything but boring.
178 Posted 02/03/2016 at 16:17:22
The betting each year says that Spurs are rated better than us, but anyway were disagreeing on minor details.
If the quality of our players in 3-4 positions was improved I think you would see us right up there challenging for top 4.
179 Posted 02/03/2016 at 16:27:09
Not really sure what a 'physco' is, never mind how to analyse one, but if you think I was a bit harsh on you then imagine how that poor little bugger in full Liverpool kit felt when he booted his ball against my window before sheepishly asking for it back.
He had it coming though. Not like the wife hasn't already warned all the neighbours: "Do not touch the glass. Do not approach the glass. Pass him nothing but soft paper-no pencils or pens."
181 Posted 02/03/2016 at 16:45:24
Blackpool were constantly talked up as entertaining and every neutral's Number One to watch when they were in the Premier League. Bet they'd swap such patronising plaudits for the chance to go back and plug their leaky back line now.
I can see how people with no investment in either side competing can get their non-caring kicks from Everton games, but if it was their own team persistently tossing away points like a badly twatted piñata the bloody enjoyment would soon wear off.
Same as the neutrals naming of Everton as one of their 'most favourite teams ever' would magically evaporate if we ever emerged as a realistic, consistent threat to their own teams trophy snatching chances.
182 Posted 02/03/2016 at 16:50:23
But what teams are having a good season though? Leicester are in dreamland. Spurs are doing better than expected. West Ham have done well and their fans are delighted with Bilic. Watford have been a big surprise this season. Southampton and Stoke have done okay. Bournemouth are probably pleased that they are just out of the relegation places at the start of March.
However, Arsenal fans are fearing they've bottled it again and a large percentage of them want rid of Wenger. Man Utd fans are far from happy with their boring football and their league position having spent over £200 million. Chelsea have certainly improved under Hiddink but have lost 9 games this season and are making one of the worst title defences ever.
Crystal Palace were having a great season at Christmas but then came down with the decorations. West Brom have improved but before they played us, their fans were far from pleased with Pulis's negativity. Liverpool have spent massively again and are on the same points as us and out of the FA Cup.
Then there's Swansea. We were reading how Gary Monk was an England manager in waiting at the start of the season. Newcastle and Sunderland are a joke and fighting for their Premier League lives. Some fans on here were advocating Steve McClaren as a suitable Everton boss not so long ago. Norwich are in serious trouble. It's hard to imagine how it could be worse for Villa whose fans are questioning whether they can even remain in the Championship next year.
183 Posted 02/03/2016 at 17:05:59
John, I share the same opinion. Neutrals don't care about our club's success, and would love to have an entertaining game with us losing to their favorite teams. If you want to attract more fans, sure, entertaining games are a good draw, but no-one remember the teams that come second best. They only remember winners. Win and then entertain. The big clubs that you can throw out there. Are they big because they played nice football first or did they win titles first?
184 Posted 02/03/2016 at 17:07:19
It seems fans are split at most clubs in the top half. All except Leicester who, as you say, are in dreamland, and Spurs.I hope Leicester go on to win the Premier League.
185 Posted 02/03/2016 at 17:29:51
For me, the key is West Ham Saturday, if we can win this then I'll genuinely believe that we have turned the corner. I also believe that the key is keeping the unfashionable Lennon in the side and I don't believe that playing one of Mirallas or Deulofeu or Gibson and Cleverley will weaken us at all. With money to spend on quality, none of them will be good enough to see us to the next level anyway; none of them would get into any of the top sides now. We have to look beyond the £10M players to make that move.
186 Posted 02/03/2016 at 17:41:18
Martin, have a good look at the quality of the teams we have beaten recently then reconsider your assessment of how good we are.
No matter how you look at it, this season's performances are poor and in my opinion would have been much better with a better man than Martinez in charge; mind you, I think you will agree with this last paragraph.
187 Posted 02/03/2016 at 17:47:02
I'm delighted with the win and another 3 points...
I'm delighted with the 3 goals, particularly Lennon's goal ...
I'm delighted that Lukaku is now our top ever PL goal scorer (even if 17 sounds kinda ... middling) ...
I thought Funes Mori, Barry (yet again) and Lennon were our standouts on the night, with a special mention to Mirallas for laying on 2 goals ...
BUT! But ...
I was less enamoured by our quality of play. It was mostly sloppy and careless and low intensity. The Lennon goal and the rapid counter showed what could - and should, on the night - have been more consistently applied by the team against the worst side in the league.
I was pissed off to concede another soft goal, unpressurised cross into the box, big lump outjumps 2 centre backs ... goal!
I thought Robles looked dodgy on a couple of occasions and I remain unconvinced by him. Ross had one of his poorest games of recent times.
I continue to think this team, whilst talented, seriously lacks an Alpha Dog. The all-conquering mid-80s team was brimful of them. This team doesn't have a single yard dog, prepared to snarl and growl in the face of his fellow team mates to keep them on point and performing to a high level over the full 90 minutes.
Fair enough, people...?
NB (particular those inclined to cry 'Martinez bashing' when any mild criticism is passed on the team), I haven't referenced Roberto at all.
188 Posted 02/03/2016 at 18:01:42
To be fair, if we'd played most of RM's first season as we finished it, we'd probably have been where we are now. Maybe half of our team are just not top echelon players and that is part of the reason why we have oscillated between the sublime and the ridiculous, it's a genuine symptom of lack of real quality.
As always, how we play Saturday is the key.
189 Posted 02/03/2016 at 18:02:18
I seem to have heard this so many times both this and last season. One game isn't going to turn a corner with this manager.
I can recall someone writing a thread after we beat Villa at home saying this mythical corner had been turned and I don't think we won again for about 5-6 games!
190 Posted 02/03/2016 at 18:11:13
Good runs are carved out one game at a time, some of which may be almost unwatchable. I think at times we have massively high and irrational expectations of how we should play every game and the world ends if we don't. Kendall's best sides were years in coming.
191 Posted 02/03/2016 at 18:30:01
I just don't understand this particular game. If you think West Ham are our peers then they were playing far better and were more consistent earlier in the season.
In November, we had a win against Sunderland 6-2 so in your words a good run carved out a game at a time. Next up we had a good draw AT West Ham 1-1. Then Villa at home 4-0. We were deffo on a roll!
After that... well, crap really Bournemouth, Palace, Norwich, Leicester, Stoke.
So, as I said previously, we have never had a run this season and, in my opinion, West Ham at home could be anything: win, lose or draw. Under Martinez, the only thing that is consistent is our inconsistency.
192 Posted 02/03/2016 at 18:46:14
193 Posted 02/03/2016 at 18:53:42
194 Posted 02/03/2016 at 19:15:39
Apologies for late reply, your post has only just been brought to my attention.
As an Evertonian of over 50 years my loyalty will always be to the club I love.
Hard decision though. Roberto is my hero. ;-)
195 Posted 02/03/2016 at 19:20:04
No doubt the critical view can seem more abrasive but, as I said in my post, we want the same thing.
196 Posted 02/03/2016 at 19:52:02
Would be interesting to see how such a vote would go now that we can attract a better calibre of coach.
197 Posted 02/03/2016 at 20:02:08
If we want the level of European football then get a European level football manager.
Seems quite simple really.
198 Posted 02/03/2016 at 20:09:06
It's not that I admire Martinez as such, but I do think he is copping for too much criticism, the players are as much or indeed more to blame for some/most of the poor displays, that's my take on it.
Moyes for his faults, was a very hard act to follow for his finishing positions in the League, it wasn't always pretty but it was effective. He was lauded for his achievements at Goodison by the media and pros within the game considering the transfer budget he was given.
As far as the League goes, I think we now believe we should always finish 6th-8th or better, there again that's open to debate!
201 Posted 02/03/2016 at 21:01:53
202 Posted 02/03/2016 at 21:04:11
The criticisms I don't like are the calls for Martinez to get the sack after we win 3-1 away, and the other one being that the new investor shouldn't trust him with a transfer kitty. Martinez has had a great record signing players. He excels at this two more players who look a snip now are Aaron Lennon and Funes Mori.
Now Tim Howard's out and we've tightened up at the back, I think we can still have the strong finish Martinez is talking about if we can now do something about the home form in the remaining games.
203 Posted 02/03/2016 at 21:26:40
He seems to be a Barca fan and wants to mimic their "philosophy" BUT, as well as some brilliant imports, they have players who have been drilled together , since childhood in the fine art of keep-ball. It's at its most effective where they play it too, and that's on the edge of the opposition's penalty area, rarely for long in their own half.
Barca also fight like rats to immediately recover possession when they lose it, and Messi, Suarez and Neymar do it too. There are no shirkers. The ex-Arse lad Mertesacker was in the papers last week talking about the big differences he was finding now he's at Nou Camp. He said, "Fitness, their fitness is way better than anything I've experienced anywhere else, and it's this that enables their awesome, high-pressing ball recovery." (I paraphrase it for brevity).
So, Martinez has thus far managed to "up" our possession stats with his numbingly boring keep-ball in areas that the opposition may as well have chosen for us to play in, but the really hard bit is yet to come as he approaches his fourth season as our manager.
It may also interest his fans to know that he's been with us for longer than all but four other Premier League managers have had with their clubs, Pellegrini and Hughes pipping him by a only a month or so, Eddie Howe by about seven months with old father time at the Arse winning hands down.
That's why I have no faith at all in him and his version of "philosophy". On any measure he is worse than average at best, and to my mind fundamentally incompetent.
204 Posted 02/03/2016 at 21:46:06
205 Posted 02/03/2016 at 21:50:01
Per Mertesacker plays for Arsenal.
I think you mean Thomas Vermaelan.
206 Posted 02/03/2016 at 21:53:00
I wonder who was responsible for the shambles in the first place? ... and let's not pretend he actually saw the light; this change did not come about through choice.
The stronger we finish, the more Martinez's half-witted decisions will be exposed. He has destroyed our season, we can never get back the points he cost us.
I get people like him (love him in some cases) but does anybody seriously doubt the club can do better with the funds now at it's disposal?
Those who say they want him to stay are either saying he is the better than all the managers we could attract (throughout the world) or they are demonstrating they support him rather than the team. Which is it for you?
207 Posted 02/03/2016 at 21:53:59
212 Posted 02/03/2016 at 22:10:32
As you've quoted me, are you addressing me with that question??
If you are it's clearly a rhetorical question. I'm an Everton fan above all else and I'm a bit too old for hero worship.
You've already been called out for being a big child on this thread for accusing people who have a different viewpoint as Martinez worshippers, Darren. It's as childish as me asking you if any manager in world football will do for you, after your hero Moyesie left.
Martinez is our manager until the summer. If we're still mid-table I'd be shocked if Moshiri gave him another season.
213 Posted 02/03/2016 at 22:17:29
You criticised people for calling for Martinez to be sacked. I've given reasons for him to go, you've offered none for him to stay. Even I don't want him sacked until the end of the season.
BTW; I rated Moyes lower than I rated Martinez.
214 Posted 02/03/2016 at 22:21:14
Martinez is a clone of Wenger so stubborn in his beliefs that it costs (in Wenger's case) his club the title; in our case, a real chance to challenge for the Champions League.
Is he the man to get us Champions League football? Judging by his performances this season, I don't think so. I think it will be more of the same next season: you score 2, we will score 3... and that just will not cut it.
215 Posted 02/03/2016 at 22:33:08
I'm not criticising folk for having a go at Martinez. I share many of the concerns and the performance last night is up for scrutiny. I just think the 'Martinez Out' bandwagon should leave it until another day after a 3-1 win away.
Also, I did give a reason why we should lay off a re-evaluate in the summer. Martinez has assembled this talented side. He's a manager who has the long term vision to make us a force in English football again. There's signs there that we could be turning the tide if we put some results together at home.
If we move up the league and get to the cup final I'd give him another season. Otherwise I'd let him go and bring in Eddie Howe.
216 Posted 02/03/2016 at 22:42:54
The key word you use "if"
If we move up the table
If we get to a cup final
Eddie Howe....not good enough to take us to the next level.
I want Mourinho...
217 Posted 02/03/2016 at 22:55:43
You speak about being irritated by "Martinez bating"
The question I asked is a valid and logical one.
If a guy thinks Martinez is the best manager we can get, then fair enough, let him say so... but if he doesn't believe he is the best we can do and still insists he should not be sacked, what does that tell you?
Regardless of opinion, we should all put the interest of the club above the desire to be right.
218 Posted 02/03/2016 at 22:56:29
I said on previous thread after the Swansea defeat that Mourinho would be my 1st choice if we could have anyone but I'd have to say Howe because I think he's a realistic choice who would genuinely want the job. He's also an Evertonian which is bonus in that he immediately gets the club and knows how big we are.
Mourinho looks nailed on for the United job and I think we're getting carried away with how much backing any manager will get for new players. Moshiri is rich, but he's still behind the perceived big boys in personal wealth. He has similar wealth to the Leicester and Stoke owners.
221 Posted 02/03/2016 at 23:15:32
Of course it may not come to that, as I have said before I like Martinez but I have gone from calling him "the incredible one" to "the incredible incapable one".
222 Posted 02/03/2016 at 23:28:13
As you say, Oliver, it depends on how big the money is available that will dictate the profile of the manager, if we see a new man coming in next season.
223 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:18:18
But quite seriously, Mike Walker aside (and he deserved what he got), I don't think there's many clubs that have been as loyal to their managers to the extent we have for decades. I just wonder if us fans' acceptance of the board's loyalty, for whatever reason the board had it, has led to us inadvertently contributing, with the board, to so little relative success.
Football these days is way different to decades ago as we all know. Managers are now made millionaires in a season but good managers can impose winning ways after two seasons. We can all see this is true this season in particular, but with our guy there is absolutely nothing but his words to give anyone cause to be optimistic (and bear in mind that of the 49 league goals we've scored, in three matches 9 goals resulted in winning only two whole points and 19 more were against teams always below us in the league so, I'm sorry, that means very little to me).
What I resent as I approach OAP status is Bobby Baldrick's relentless squandering of the opportunity to deliver something that would make me incredibly happy; an entertaining, winning Everton.
He has all the ingredients/players but has clearly no idea what the recipe might be.
224 Posted 02/03/2016 at 00:44:33
Was it great footie lastnight? No. Most of it was shite but we won end of.
I've seen us batter palace hit posts etc playing great attacking football then get beat 1-0. That's football. The funny thing is when we have played shite this year we tend to WIN.
As for the Moyes v Martinez debate. This is a complete different league to the Moyes years. Back then we had the top 4, now with all the money its the Top 10. Just look at the results tonight. And for the record Moyes was sacked TWICE in his last 2 jobs! For me Everton was better for Moyes and not the other way round.
225 Posted 03/03/2016 at 06:08:51
I doubt West Ham are going to be as charitable as Villa and they just beat Spurs. This is a good test and nothing less than a win is acceptable. In fact we should be winning all our remaining games and booking a spot at Wembley for a repeat of the 95 cup final.
228 Posted 03/03/2016 at 10:47:48
Now please stop whipping the manager with a point that's meaningless.
229 Posted 03/03/2016 at 12:48:43
Some people on this forum must never get any action. Could win 6-0 and there'd still be a moan. Enjoy life.
230 Posted 03/03/2016 at 17:36:04
Fortunately Villa are shite. The Hammers game will be a more sterner test, but we can beat them. COYB
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