Architect Dan Meis was in attendance at a special event for supporters that coincided with the release of artist's impressions and a brilliant CGI fly-through of the new ground, with the consultation to begin on Friday and run until 25th August.
Dan Meis was given a standing ovation by around 1,000 invited supporters at the Titanic Hotel, with Denise Barrett-Baxendale and Bill Kenwright waxing lyrical over the design of the structure and the proposals for Goodison Park. The structure will feature a floating roof above a brick facade that retains the character of the docklands location, Liverpool's maritime heritage, and the waterfront's status as a Unesco World Heritage Site.
Reader Comments (435)
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1 Posted 24/07/2019 at 22:59:09
Until theres a definite timescale on the beginning of the building work its hard to get excited yet.
2 Posted 24/07/2019 at 23:04:32
3 Posted 24/07/2019 at 23:43:23
Honestly are them first 2 posts being ironic or something, if you can't get excited about what will be revealed tomorrow then you definitely follow and support Everton differently than me.
How about you throw caution to wind and allow yourselves to "fantasise" about a new iconic waterfront stadium eh, I know its foolish of me because no bricks have been laid yet and stuff etcetera etc. Then again even when its half built people will say " there could be a monsoon" or footy might become dead unpopular again like the mid 80s.
Surely the miserabilists aren't going to dominate this thread.
I can't wait to see the images, and you know in the event that I don't like the plans or the look of the stadium I will still find the whole project and debate riveting.
I don't think I will be distracted too much by the sale of Lookman.
4 Posted 25/07/2019 at 00:10:25
But then again, people have heard it with Kings Dock and with Kirkby, maybes people optimism has faded.
5 Posted 25/07/2019 at 00:28:47
Some think the planned unveiling of the new stadium and commencement of phase 2 of the consultation has been carefully coordinated to gloss over the sale of players?
6 Posted 25/07/2019 at 00:56:29
7 Posted 25/07/2019 at 01:07:15
8 Posted 25/07/2019 at 01:21:07
This has nothing to do with two players leaving, it is about our new chapter in the history of Everton Football Club.
If you cannot get optimistic about that and worry more about two players who do not want to be at Everton then I really feel for you.
9 Posted 25/07/2019 at 06:03:06
10 Posted 25/07/2019 at 06:39:27
11 Posted 25/07/2019 at 06:40:50
12 Posted 25/07/2019 at 06:48:57
13 Posted 25/07/2019 at 06:51:15
14 Posted 25/07/2019 at 07:13:19
15 Posted 25/07/2019 at 07:43:37
16 Posted 25/07/2019 at 07:50:42
17 Posted 25/07/2019 at 07:56:38
18 Posted 25/07/2019 at 08:36:09
This scepticism has not been helped by the relatively convoluted and stalled process to date, which we are told is about satisfying all the demands of a particularly stringent planning process, due to sensitive heritage issues. For me though, today is about finally being able to put some more flesh on the bones of those initial concepts, so that we can better judge precisely what all the fuss has been about, and what we are actually getting ourselves into.
I hope that Evertonians are excited by what we are shown, and that some light is shed on all the important supporting issues concerning accessibility, transport, potential for future expansion, affordability and costs etc. After all, if today is truly part of a "consultation process", it should be about far more than glossy CGI images.
19 Posted 25/07/2019 at 08:50:36
20 Posted 25/07/2019 at 09:11:12
Are you going to the presentation today?
21 Posted 25/07/2019 at 09:32:58
22 Posted 25/07/2019 at 09:34:26
23 Posted 25/07/2019 at 09:42:01
Personally, I can't wait!
24 Posted 25/07/2019 at 10:09:03
25 Posted 25/07/2019 at 10:16:59
Not looking forward to the doom & gloom merchants feeling underwhelmed over & over again.
26 Posted 25/07/2019 at 10:22:07
27 Posted 25/07/2019 at 10:28:00
Exciting times ahead!
28 Posted 25/07/2019 at 10:52:11
That's right, Kenwright planned months ago to sell Gueye and Lookman this very week and to distract us all with plans for the new stadium.
I can see Kenwright now, stood by the fireplace in his gold-plated mansion with a glass of cognac in his hand, cackling at the success of his dastardly plan to hoodwink us Evertonians...
29 Posted 25/07/2019 at 11:13:32
And many other examples.
30 Posted 25/07/2019 at 11:16:50
When Meis tweeted a picture of a blue wave, someone told him that he wouldnt be doing anything original if hes copying Dortmund.
Meis tweeted back that you could hammer a kipper into your face if you wanted to be original, and then four minutes later said hes going for the best and most intimidating stadium with-in the budget, but I just got the feeling hed been thrown off-guard, when he read that dead-pan reply to his first tweet.
I dont care if its been done before, because weve already owned the first purpose built football stadium that was ever built, but judging by the architects replies, Im very intrigued to see what “our new ground” is eventually going to look like!
31 Posted 25/07/2019 at 11:42:53
32 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:10:54
I really hope the designs are something we can all get behind and be proud of. I see this as our only opportunity to bridge the gap to the current top 6 clubs.
33 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:15:01
Nobody is stood next to their fireplace in this weather. FAKE NEWS.
34 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:16:28
I don't do twitter so can't respond, but to say "within the budget" is a bit intriguing. The club have said it's costing £600m. I expect quite a lot ar that cost for that capacity.
35 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:35:52
36 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:48:26
37 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:49:55
38 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:51:13
39 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:52:42
Sorry you won't be there tonight Tony, the bit in your post that intrigues me is "most intimidating stadium". In my minds eye I picture a largely brick stadium with the fans close to the action. I hope I'm right.
Oh, and the away fans stuck up in a corner like the Barcodes do to every other set of fans.
40 Posted 25/07/2019 at 12:59:46
That discrace of a second kit has reminded me how badly EFC can get it wrong, but I've decided to be optimistic!
Will I still be a happy camper tomorrow after seeing our new home?
41 Posted 25/07/2019 at 13:11:54
42 Posted 25/07/2019 at 13:33:10
43 Posted 25/07/2019 at 13:36:32
As for the "it's got to be as good as Spurs" earlier in the thread. It's ridiculous to expect it to be as good as Spurs. Spurs cost close to a billion pound I heard so anyone expecting our new ground to be as "good" as Spurs is living in cloud cuckoo land.
What I will say though is that comparing our prospective new ground to Spurs is like comparing an Audemars Piguet watch to a Tag. The AP could set you back about £25k whereas you could pick up a lovely Tag Carrera for about £5k.
Do they compare in the grand scheme of things? No they don't but I know of people who are more than happy with their£5k Tag Carrera and the watch does a fantastic job and looks great too.
44 Posted 25/07/2019 at 14:05:10
It was me who raised the Spurs remark. I'm not expecting it to be of that standard but expectations are high and I hope it delivers. Early indications are positive. There is a feeling of being unambitious with the capacity on TW. If it's a world class stadium on the banks of the Mersey with a capacity of around 55,000 and improves our matchday revenues then that'll do me for starters.
45 Posted 25/07/2019 at 14:10:37
46 Posted 25/07/2019 at 14:14:46
Since we got the go-ahead for the stadium, Spurs have built one and even played in it! 🙈
We have to get a move on as we look a bit of a laughing stock, up to now we have put a cone in the docks.
47 Posted 25/07/2019 at 14:32:42
EFC always bang on about EFC in the community but ultimately when its comes to the stadium its a massive sham. Its hard not to get pessimistic about it all after Kingsdock and Destination Kirby. Has any other group of fans been messed about more than Evertonians when it comes to relocation?
Why are only a select few tonight seeing the pictures? Why the secrecy?
48 Posted 25/07/2019 at 14:39:49
Blue wave & all that.
49 Posted 25/07/2019 at 14:48:10
I was hoping for four distinctive side.
50 Posted 25/07/2019 at 14:51:13
51 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:00:59
52 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:01:40
"All this drip feed of info why don't EFC have an actual stadium website set up for news of the stadium development interviews, pictures, updates, progress etc. Why the secrecy?"
They do, Daniel. No secrecy at all. It's linked from the official club site, but it's a standalone site. Here's the link:
Quite frankly, I'm amazed you're not aware of its existence.
53 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:06:54
I'll quite happily stand corrected on that one then, but no I didn't know about it at all.
Much reading to be had tonight then, Cheers.
54 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:07:33
I hoping I won't have to do any moaning, I'm tired of being pessemistic.
To be fair the link I posted, it wasn't that bad and there's worse looking places, but just slightly a nudge towards a bowl shape too much.
55 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:09:26
Maybe they're trying to keep out the naysayers. After all, for those who say it ain't going to happen, why would they want to attend a non-event?
56 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:09:44
57 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:10:47
Not long to wait mate, not long now!
58 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:13:36
59 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:23:34
60 Posted 25/07/2019 at 15:36:48
I agree completely.
The lad has clearly never wanted to be here. We're good enough for Gomes but must cower in the wake of the mighty RB Leipzig where Lookman is concerned.
61 Posted 25/07/2019 at 16:18:17
62 Posted 25/07/2019 at 16:32:44
So far as I know, the only criteria for going to St Luke's was that you had a customer number. So its quite democratic really.
63 Posted 25/07/2019 at 16:40:58
64 Posted 25/07/2019 at 17:22:31
Disappointed season ticket holder.
65 Posted 25/07/2019 at 17:31:33
66 Posted 25/07/2019 at 17:46:02
67 Posted 25/07/2019 at 17:49:19
68 Posted 25/07/2019 at 18:44:09
69 Posted 25/07/2019 at 18:59:56
70 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:01:16
71 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:08:12
72 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:09:10
73 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:09:27
74 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:12:06
For a reported 600 mil when I see the actual images want my eyes to pop out like a cartoon wolf eyeing up Bugs Bunny -this does not do that.
75 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:14:55
76 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:15:34
77 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:19:19
78 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:24:30
79 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:26:04
80 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:26:24
Its a little plain inside but definitely more of a rounded rectangle than a bowl. The seat pitch angle is (I believe) in line with modern H&S requirements. We probably couldnt build it much steeper.
So, three years ago we were skint with no real plan for a new stadium. Now we have a billionaire owner who has pushed through a project to build us a stadium not far from Goodison, on the Waterfront of what is (currently) a UNESCO World Heritage site. Thats pretty incredible. Could the design be better? Sure; but it could *always* be better.
81 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:27:42
Excellent job imho
82 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:29:24
83 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:32:40
84 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:35:00
Love the brick, glass and steel design. Love the way the steel overhangs the brick. The view of the stadium from the river looks amazing. Looks like the roof overhangs the stands quite considerably which should help to give shelter from those winds up the Mersey. Love the steep sides which will create a great atmosphere.
I wanted something different from the usual modern stadiums that all look the same - this delivers it.
85 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:35:49
86 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:36:37
However because lm on ToffeeWeb! It looks a bit hot with all those windows, and of course a few people will drown each season. Hopefully it doesnt get shut down off the Elf and Safety.
87 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:36:50
88 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:37:29
I would have liked to have seen a steeper home end that went beyond the other three sides, maybe closer to the pitch.
As I say, its decent but just the same as most new British stadiums now.
89 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:39:01
90 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:39:13
91 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:39:28
92 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:42:27
93 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:43:57
94 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:45:56
Just watched the official video on the website and it looks amazing.
Impossible to please everyone.
95 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:47:34
96 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:54:57
97 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:57:25
Anyway, it'll do me, let's get it built and can I have row D on the centre line in the upper part of the stand opposite the corporate boxes please?
98 Posted 25/07/2019 at 19:59:37
99 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:00:47
100 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:02:41
The hardest part now is actually getting it built, which still feels like quite some way off really!
101 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:02:55
When the ball gets kicked out of the stadium and into the dock, who will fish it out ?
Will the ferries call there on match days ?
102 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:04:31
103 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:06:04
104 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:06:04
105 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:06:20
106 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:07:44
107 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:19:13
108 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:21:59
109 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:31:23
110 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:36:54
Imagine night games here.
111 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:37:21
112 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:37:30
Sounds like an excuse to build the thing out of cheap arse red bricks, just like the crumbling remnants of old Goodison.
Its a lot of money for a sideways step and, as usual, we've been lied to over capacity and appearance and no, i'm not excited over no obstructed views, this should be accepted as the norm in 2019, the Romans had it 2000 years ago for fcks sake.
113 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:38:00
Perhaps some disappointments are down to unreal expectations.
One more thing I liked was mention of a 14k fan something or other that could also be used for concerts etc.
114 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:40:37
To me this seems a huge step for our great club.
The tightness inside, location and roof will make for a great atmosphere for us mainly old buggers and certainly draw more fans as we again have best stadium in the city.
Liverpool increasing capacity in a stand.
115 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:40:55
116 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:42:37
Bet you £10 you will love it.
117 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:43:04
I didn't waste my childhood watching Andy Pandy and Muffin the Mule.
118 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:43:26
119 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:44:48
Its all about opinions but for me this is absolutely stunning and the RS will be jealous as hell.
Cant wait for this to happen- has capacity been mentioned?
120 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:45:36
"Everton have no connection to the docks other than this stadium so what has heritage got to do with anything?"
You really haven't thought that one through, have you Paul?
121 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:47:09
122 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:47:12
123 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:48:08
You make a very good point though.
124 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:49:30
125 Posted 25/07/2019 at 20:58:20
126 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:00:05
127 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:01:53
128 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:03:24
How anyone can say this is a generic stadium is beyond me I have never seen a stadium like this and if this comes to fruition the scale and impact will only then be appreciated, as for " crappy cheap red brick "
It couldn't be less crappy or cheap mate, I would like to see a slower video to be honest so I can appreciate the views from the river and dock rd sides. The only thing I think that jars is the Everton writing, it seems to cheapen what to me is anotherwise impressive, modern striking looking structure, one that I would be proud to call home.
129 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:04:14
130 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:05:33
Already much further in than I remember for Kings Dock and will be worth the wait.
The work to be done on the Goodison Park site also looks very good.
131 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:07:27
132 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:08:41
The best part is that it's not embarrassing or cheap looking.
Love the use of brick, metal and glass. They have combined them well.
General design features, colours, shape and close proximity to the pitch are what make it.
Plenty of space outside the stadium to be able to do a lap.
Disapointed with the size of it. It's not tall or grand enough. Wheres the tower, the crows nest, the stand out design feature that you can see for miles away.
It looks big against the water but as soon as a few hotels and offices are built nearby it will dissappear from view coming from the city centre.
And on that point why isn't there a grand Hotel attached?
Where's the vision to incorporate a water view restaurant, bar, club shop, a European style square to gather and socialise looking over the Mersey.
I expected the stadium / pitch to be rotated 90 degrees to maximise space.
The space underneath the arched over hang could be used as a meeting area, shaded from the sun/rain if it was larger.
I don't like the roof being on sticks. It's a noise nuisance which on windy days will drown out the crowd and annoy everyone for miles.
133 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:10:26
134 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:10:52
135 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:11:51
136 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:15:30
137 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:16:46
138 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:19:58
139 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:24:10
140 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:29:37
141 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:30:47
No but seriously it looks amazing. I'm on holiday in the Canary Isles and already had a few snide comments off you know who… Oh lads aren't you so jealous Haven't had the deceny to reply to them, I'm too busy enjoying myself. Ah well lads you're council house extension will still suffice. Now fuck off and let us bask in the glow of them beautiful images. Goodnight, boys and girls!
142 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:35:26
143 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:35:46
Well bugger off to Burnley then and listen to yer Foo Fighters
144 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:37:54
145 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:38:48
I'd have had it holdings 90,000, levitating 40 foot it the air with invisible escalators to take us to cushion covered vibrating heated seats, where a pint I pops up out the arm rest as soon as you've finished the last one. That brilliantly lit it could be seen from fucking Pluto, constantly playing the “Johnny Todd” that loud people in Beijing would have to shut their windows to watch the telly. A massive sequence of strategically placed mirrors so they could all see from Mordor. And as for naming rights let's get a collection going so we can name it “The Fuck You Stadium”. Come on, Dan, not much to ask for!!!
By the way, I don't like it — I absolutely LOVE it.
146 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:38:49
147 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:40:14
148 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:42:46
The evening was in danger of starting badly, as a long queue had formed outside the Titanic Hotel prior to the doors opening at 5.30. Had the monsoon that hit at 4.00pm arrived a bit later, spirits would have been seriously dampened. As it was, they were lifted by a complimentary beer or wine as we entered the function room.
The proceedings were very slick and professional. Darren Griffiths was an excellent MC.
Denise Barret-Baxendale spoke very passionately and eloquently, mainly about the Goodison legacy. That may not be as interesting to some as the new stadium, but the proposals are excellent, they could revitalise the L4 area.
Colin Chong spoke about timescales, with a planning application to be submitted later this year and building to start early 2020. I have to say that second bit sounds optimistic.
Bill Kenwright did his Bill thing. If you dont like him you wouldnt have liked it, but he was listened to respectfully.
Dan Meis then presented his proposals. I can only speak for myself, I think they are stunning. His concept is to use brickwork to form a solid-looking base, with a “floating” roof. The site is tight, consideration was given to orienting the stadium east/west, but they had decided on north/south to mirror Goodison, and to help prevent sunlight problems. Im not quite sure how that marries up with a large degree of glass at the south end of the stadium.
There was an audible gasp of appreciation, and a round of applause, when the western elevation (the riverside) was revealed. The presentation was received by a standing ovation for Dan. (I bumped into him on the way out, had a few words, he came across as a very enthusiastic guy).
Seamus, Tom Davies and Tony Bellew said a few words. Tony may come out of retirement as he would like to knock out someone there.
Then upstairs to see more of the consultation process, and a superb 3D fly around the new stadium.
I managed to speak with one of the transport planning consultants. The plan to ease access to the site is to knock 3 new entrances in the dock wall (yes, they know its listed). They are actually more concerned about pedestrian congestion on Regent Road than within the stadium site, that will require flow-management. Regent Road will be closed to traffic during matches.
Thats a very quick run down. As I said to Mr Meis, we just need to pay for it now. He laughed and said that is being taken care of.
149 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:47:44
And the plans for Goodison. Absolutely superb. Now that really is Everton in the Community. Arguably better than the high I got on the stadium.
150 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:48:44
Im as curious to see the plans for the surrounding 3-4 miles in terms of transport and the regeneration of the north docks.
Interesting to see if this plan gets passed but it would suggest that the finance plan is in place, but this is EFC.
Lets hope this plan is approved.
151 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:53:36
152 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:54:40
153 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:58:22
154 Posted 25/07/2019 at 21:59:55
155 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:14:46
Had a quick scan over the comments but didn't spot this link to the video. Apologies if it's already been posted.
156 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:16:12
157 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:19:26
158 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:22:38
I'm going to quit my life and start building it next week.
159 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:25:40
Nice to hear two balanced posters who attended the presentation speak so enthusiastically about what they saw.
Peter's snippets from Meis himself on funding and his chat with the transport guy also encouraging.
160 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:29:54
I believe the Spurs stadium took around 12 years from the original concept to the opening. It certainly wasn't built in less than three years, as you suggest.
161 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:38:27
Overall a well presented event, and for me, the stadium images look amazing.
162 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:41:55
163 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:50:12
Spurs first announced plans for their stadium, and redevelopment of the area, in 2008. They first submitted a planning application in 2009. It took 10 more years to get it built!
We are looking to submit a planning application this year and have it completed by 2023. So not too shabby in comparison.
The images look spectacular. This is really going to happen, and it's going to be incredible.
164 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:51:24
165 Posted 25/07/2019 at 22:56:38
166 Posted 25/07/2019 at 23:04:07
The one that caught my eye was Frank's @99. “I just hope the club can do it.“.
The can and will Frank especially when we get behind them. They really want us to.
Up the Blues!!!
167 Posted 25/07/2019 at 23:07:57
168 Posted 25/07/2019 at 23:36:59
Also it looks nothing like a bowl to me, but that's just my opinion.
169 Posted 25/07/2019 at 23:40:05
170 Posted 25/07/2019 at 23:41:37
Now that is planning for you.
171 Posted 25/07/2019 at 23:56:50
If Wolves or Leicester built a stadium, I'd expect it to look like this.
172 Posted 25/07/2019 at 23:58:05
Keeping it simply modern and distinctive at the same time suits me. The location takes care of a lot of what will make it iconic anyway.
173 Posted 25/07/2019 at 00:05:13
174 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:08:03
175 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:11:15
Once you're sat in your seat, you don't spend 90 minutes looking at the stadium, you watch the game, shout your head off and go nuts when we score goals and win.
Goodison is (or used to be) the best stadium for atmosphere, especially at night games, and us Evertonians live for that aspect at the Old Lady - this new ground delivers that. As Dan Meis has said, it's about the experience as much as anything else, and from what we've seen tonight this looks as though it'll deliver that.
Some of the views of the ground look unlike any other stadium I can think of in this country, and it has a nice blend of traditional & modern. We're a traditional bunch at heart, but we need to look forward, not back. This stadium appears to offer that in spades.
Good on them for at last looking to have sorted out what most of us hoped for. Yeah we want bigger and better than everyone else, but bigger isn't always better. It's worth remembering that.
176 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:15:26
"If Wolves or Leicester built a stadium I'd expect it to look like this."
Have you been living on the moon for the last 30 years? We've hardly dominated English football. I would remind you that Leicester City recently won the Premier League and Wolves finished above us last season. So I would not be looking down my nose at them if I were you. If it wasn't for Moshiri we would still be skint and looking forward to another 100 years at Goodison.
I think if the built it out of solid gold and a 100,000 capacity, there would still be those who would find something to complain about.
177 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:17:25
178 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:17:47
180 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:25:50
You two are exhibit A as to why were mediocre. Have you lost the will to be the best?
I take it back it looks like a new Birmingham stadium!
181 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:33:30
You can't please all the people all of the time, and that's OK so there's no reason to get arsey with each other. Everyone has an opinion, you aren't likely to ever change it by arguing on the Internet. I've never seen anyone back down and neither have you.
So what if Andrew doesn't like it? He's perfectly within his rights to hate it if he wants to, the rest of us (mostly) seem to be very enthusiastic about it for many reasons.
Cheer up, gents, this is meant to be good news for a change. :-)
182 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:40:21
183 Posted 26/07/2019 at 00:47:51
That Juve ground has some atmosphere from the games I've seen so the capacity doesn't really matter in my view. It's the people inside it who make the place.
184 Posted 26/07/2019 at 01:20:29
185 Posted 26/07/2019 at 01:42:07
Let's face it – it's never going to be Kings Dock.
186 Posted 26/07/2019 at 03:18:47
If it looks stunning in computer images, then the real thing will be jaw dropping.
Of course, I won't truly believe it's actually happening until the first ball is kicked in there!
187 Posted 26/07/2019 at 04:51:31
I think most people are giving their opinion on the design which is purely a matter of taste.
The capacity - well most of us realise we have zero influence there. What are we going to do to show we'd rather Everton were winning everything in sight and filling a 100,000 stadium every match? Have a banner waving march? Plenty of us will just be grateful to get a new stadium. These things aren't guaranteed.
188 Posted 26/07/2019 at 06:23:53
Back to the football, and hopefully this feel-good factor that most of us have will only be enhanced during the next couple of weeks, with good signings befitting of “the motto” that has been lost for way too long...
And finally my thoughts go now to Goodison Park, and this is why I feel emotional, because it's a place I love, it's a place that's full of so many memories, and it's a ground that definitely needs to go out with a bang!
189 Posted 26/07/2019 at 07:06:46
If this is all a sham, fake news, "never going to happen", etc, then it's a really expensive exercise to con us all. I don't think guys like Dan Meis come cheap. An inspiring presentation from him.
I feel sorry for the "GP remoaners". Sorry, a cheap hit, but I really do feel for them that they can't get excited by this. I wish I could convey the sheer level of enthusiasm those present last night expressed at the end of Meis's presentation. Electric.
190 Posted 26/07/2019 at 07:23:01
I don't think there's a stadium like it in the country. Unique design in a great location.
I do get the impression reading back that there are some people desperate to dislike it and nothing would have suited them. That's up to them of course.
Can't wait for it to be our new home.
Any news on a stadium name? It's probably going to be some corporate effort but I'd like to go with St Domingo's or some other name that reflects our history.
191 Posted 26/07/2019 at 07:41:27
And on the upside, Bramley-Moore Dock will be great for the taxi drivers of this world!
193 Posted 26/07/2019 at 08:12:03
Like you say the costs to date must be immense already, and they haven't laid a brick, what would be the point of such a sham/con/whatever you would call it?
The only thing I can see that would impede progress is the usual Red Tape that goes along with all these things, plus I can't see them using Mickey Mouse Construction Firms either that go bust half-way through or suddenly decide material costs have gone through the roof.
Goodison, has many memories for all of us, not all good unfortunately, but nevertheless the atmosphere in the good times tended to supersede the not so good. I went to the U-21 games recently, Title and Cup and being less busy than normal matchdays, I had a bit of a closer look at the structure (Bullens Road especially) and it has had it's day and signs of age/fatigue are definitely showing.
Football like all other sports has changed dramatically in my lifetime alone, and the old Victorian style Football Grounds are all gradually giving way to State of the Art Modern Amphitheaters.
I think 'ours' when built, will be a statement not only to the Football World, but Sport in General, and be the envy of most.
194 Posted 26/07/2019 at 08:20:52
195 Posted 26/07/2019 at 08:27:21
Get this built and get it right, and we will have the most distinctive stadium in the country, if not Europe, so it's a resounding thumbs up from me, and I think it will look better in the flesh, as it were, than the images show. That's one way to get it right - make the real thing even better than the images.
Supporters of other clubs seem to like it as well (apart from the RS of course - they'll be spitting feathers).
196 Posted 26/07/2019 at 08:35:04
Get the shovels ready lads!
197 Posted 26/07/2019 at 08:36:54
Wanted to throw one off after seeing the video.
198 Posted 26/07/2019 at 08:57:36
On the capacity, I think 52k is low and they are gambling on safe standing providing higher potential capacity. However, the club have to be realistic about how much an extra 5-10k seats will cost to build and the fact that the bums in the seats contribute an ever smaller slice of the total revenue stream. In a sense, they may prefer a stadium that looks and sounds good on telly!
199 Posted 26/07/2019 at 09:03:55
200 Posted 26/07/2019 at 09:07:00
201 Posted 26/07/2019 at 09:17:45
And as for Everton having no connection to the docks, tell that to the thousands of dockers over the generations who supported Everton, merchant seamen, ferry men, tug crews, Mersey Pilotmen, etc etc etc who supported Everton. Yes, the docks have NO connection with Everton.
202 Posted 26/07/2019 at 09:22:37
203 Posted 26/07/2019 at 09:24:52
But just as impressive is the design of the legacy that will be left at Goodison, have to say the club has surpassed itself with this vision. Somewhere the local community can use and somewhere in years to come fathers and Grandfathers can take their children and stand on the centre circle where all the greats have played magnificent.
Finally I hope everyone signs the petition that Peter Reid and some of our ex players have instigated. The petition is to stop the owners of our neighbouring club trying to own the franchise of Liverpool, even their own fans website Spirit of Shankly has criticized the move.
204 Posted 26/07/2019 at 09:26:21
205 Posted 26/07/2019 at 09:39:57
That said, having seen what we will be moving to I can't wait!
206 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:02:14
Oh, and if some naughty employee turned the beam around so it shone above their pit when they are playing at home so all they could see in sky was a bright blue St Rupert's Tower or even better, a massive blue liverbird, after all the bird IS blue and we do own the Liver Building. Come on, Dan, you can do it.
207 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:14:11
Only one change I would make is to re-think the Everton lettering stuck onto the side of it. It looks like a tacky afterthought somebody has copied and pasted onto the structure.
I would rather have our name on the stadium in a more classy way, rather than big plastic letters.
Something like two giant granite Prince Rupert Towers , with EVERTON F.C. in blue and gold on a granite plinth between them. All lit up so it shone at night .
208 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:14:15
Before we all knock down the plans of closeness to the pitch and comparison with Goodie, I think we need some different perspective shots . cos, to me, it looks pretty damn good.
209 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:27:52
210 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:30:16
211 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:30:35
I think it looks Boss!
212 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:54:15
213 Posted 26/07/2019 at 10:54:41
214 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:00:51
Still feel disappointed about the capacity though. Supply creates its own demand and I'm sure there's numerous matches for which we'd get into the late 50's.
215 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:07:15
Personally I feel Dan Meis has not only listened to what we want he's also absorbed the distinct history and architectural design of our iconic world renowned waterfront and has very cleverly and sympathetically married the two.
I agree Spurs' stadium is an eyecatcher but looking from above it looks so out of place with regard to it's surroundings.
216 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:18:57
Some of the pictures show how steep the stands are and right up on the pitch it's gonna scare the shit out of teams under the lights and in the day too if we can get our derby voices on. I love the nautical feel, plus the brickwork has given it a traditional feel and the lattice work well, just inspired
Really can't say anything bad about this, I'm made up
217 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:20:11
Now we just have to build it :)
218 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:21:14
I'd like to see that. A landing pier for a shuttle to a car park in Birkenhead. For those that come over from the peninsula, create a new car park park over there, get the boat to the match and get dropped off on the jetty.
Might be an issue when tide is out though :-)
219 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:42:12
220 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:43:23
221 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:58:38
Yes, I suppose there is a big similarity.
222 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:58:53
223 Posted 26/07/2019 at 11:59:55
224 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:07:29
225 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:08:02
226 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:11:40
I bloody love the designs, me :-)
227 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:17:26
228 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:18:20
This is the real thing, not a destination Kirkby fiasco, but real. Our biggest obstacle will be the thousands of objections from our lovable neighours.
229 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:20:55
I watched all the footage from last night, and have gorged myself on al the imagery too. It looked like a great event, and you're not the first person I've read about that felt that way.
Hats off to Dan Meis and everyone at Everton on this one - we blues are often all too quick to complain (istory n all that) but this time round I agree with you, we all should be enjoying it and letting ourselves dream for a change. The stadium looks mighty :)
230 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:39:35
To my eyes it looks fantastic and I just hope I'm not sitting (or hopefully standing) next to some of the "we're all doomed" brigade who frequent this site.
Paint it black?
231 Posted 26/07/2019 at 12:45:44
1) The new stadium will cost a lot more than the current estimates.
2) And then even more.
232 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:01:35
233 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:17:17
Get the plans in, get them passed and get it built.
234 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:21:01
And of course, once you're in the ground, none of the design matters except for the stands and the pitch, and that looks okay to me. Almost a bowl but definitely has the feel of a four-sided stadium.
It represents us. It's definitely an Everton design, it wouldn't work for any other club.
Pretentious? Me? Never.
235 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:24:57
236 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:32:37
237 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:50:34
I have a question for some of the ToffeeWebbers with more business acumen than myself.
How do you feel this will impact on our future finances?
I don't mean with respect to matchday income which I expect will rise. I mean will this have a positive impact on deals we make with regards to kit manufacturing and shirt sponsorship.
Grateful for any thoughts on this.
238 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:52:01
Due to the tourism connected with the city, and when all the surrounding areas are also developed, we will have the most visited and talked about football ground on the planet.
Yet some are still doubters and naysayers or maybe a red fifth column?
239 Posted 26/07/2019 at 13:58:35
Andrew #171 - "If Wolves or Leicester built a stadium, I'd expect it to look like this." Newflash - Leicester have built a stadium. It looks like this. How can you compare that to the proposed design?
As for Wolves, they revealed concept images for Molineux last month. It looks like this. Not a patch on our design and that's despite them also having billionaire owners and Champions League aspirations.
240 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:00:04
Yer 'aving a 'mare' on this thread, Paul.
Best take yerself off.
241 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:16:26
Paul must be some sort of masochist. I think the overwhelming majority of Evertonians are not only pleased with the designs, they feel this will be an exceptional and just as important individual and unique stadium.
Thankfully the very very small number of dissenters aren't being taken too seriously as yet no-one has posted a valid criticism.
I would love to hear Tom Hughes thoughts on the images because he is a man worth listening to. I said yesterday and it wasn't a criticism but there is a lot to take in with the design, I think this is what makes it so good.
242 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:18:49
I was shocked when I went, it is an outstanding stadium. Great atmosphere and the perfect city-centre location. It's the beating heart of their city centre.
243 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:19:37
ALWAYS a man worth reading on stadium issues.
244 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:22:50
Yes, it's like a really good painting - you keep seeing new things every time you go back to it, and seeing the same things in a different light. We have a Rembrandt compared to the painting-by-numbers of clubs like Cardiff, Leicester.
245 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:24:59
I just hope and pray Moshiri, Usmanov et all make this happen. Yes we could have gone to Kings Dock with more forethought but we could have ended up at destination Kirkby! I truly believe its a catalyst to change the fortunes of our club for the better. Dan Meis has done a great job and should be applauded for his vision when working under a number of constraints.
246 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:37:17
I do understand the point Meis made that it is better to have a full house of 52,000 rather than seeing empty seats in one of 62,000. I just hope that supporters who want to attend say six or seven times a season can get hold of tickets, otherwise we end up with a sort of "members only" club, which would be a shame in my opinion.
Although not too many of us on TW will be worrying about the following point, one thing that intrigues me is how many boxes and other hospitality seats we end up with. Was this mentioned at the launch? Only a few years ago I took a couple of my nephews on the Everton stadium tour during which we got told that the club had about 15 boxes, one owned by Gareth Barry at the time, compared with Man Utd who had at least 10 times that number for their prawn sandwich brigade. So this is probably an opportunity to greatly increase this particular income stream to help pay back the loan interest on Bramley-Moore Dock.
247 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:37:55
249 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:44:08
250 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:55:34
I have been travelling over to Goodison since the early '70s. Most of this time involving an 8-hour boat trip when we as teenagers rubbed the sleep out of our eyes on entering the Mersey at 6:30am on a Saturday morning and worst the wear for the 4 pints us, so-called BIGMEN had un-supervised on the way over.
Dublin in those days was pretty grim around the dockside stretching back into the city. Today it looks fantastic with bars,hotels etc leading all the way Liffeyside into the city. There is a lot a similarities with Liverpool. What we Evertonians are going to have is something really special. Something for us all to be proud of.
An iconic stadium right on the river for everybody to see and admire. If i'd have dreamed out this years ago on the boat i'd have put it down to that extra pint. COYB
251 Posted 26/07/2019 at 14:58:25
It combines heritage with a futuristic outlook and does it in a really tasteful way. It brings tears of joy to my eyes. Wow - just wow.
Is it just me or was that Moise Kean wearing number 9 as the players walked past the prawn sandwich brigade on their way out onto the pitch?
252 Posted 26/07/2019 at 15:02:52
No need to be negative whatsoever. This is iconic in terms of the setting and the fact the design respects the heritage of the Liverpool docks surrounded by modernity. It's a step into the future, but one that reflects the club and the north Liverpool area that has been and will continue to be our home. I like that. I originate from south Liverpool by the way and made a purely selfish claim for Speke years ago!!
I saw earlier someone suggest Everton has no connection with the docks. As the original & oldest club in a City who's history & heritage is intrinsically entwined in the docks of what was the leading port of the British Empire, I would suggest that the inhabitants of that city and generations of Everton supporters do indeed have strong links to the docks.
I also saw suggestions that it is something we would expect Leicester or Wolves to come up with. As someone rightfully said, we shouldn't belittle those clubs in terms of recent achievements versus our. Secondly, have you seen the Kingpower (see image provided earlier)? It's a poor man's Stadium of Light or St Mary's "Lite". And Molineux; a shoe box and if those designs for future development posted above are real then they've gone down the Anfield "big stand" avenue. They'll have a shoe-box stadium with a really tall stand. Yes, really iconic; we done that in 1970.
I like it. Stunning setting, blends the modern with heritage; just what I'd want and expect from Everton Football Club.
253 Posted 26/07/2019 at 15:16:46
Some things Dan Meis had said last year at St Lukes had really underwhelmed. 52,000, cramped site, no features echoing The Grand Old Lady. I was ready to be bloody disappointed and that would add massively to the impending "home-sickness" when we leave.
Then last night I watched the video. First impression was "this isn't as shit as I was dreading". Still only 52,000. But, I really wasn't horrified at all.
Watched it over again a few times last night and then it hit Me "Bloody hell! This feels like Everton !". Especially the pitch views from eye level. Something just felt VERY, VERY at home!
Now that I've watched again and again I'm really getting it. The brickwork echoes the warehouses all along the waterfront and within that are Leitch-ian criss crosses. The shining superstructure rising from the warehouse style brickwork.
Not only am I not deeply disappointed, I think I'm falling in love., ferchrissakes I was even selecting a spot for My future season ticket.
Then, I pop home, and lying on the mat is 2019-20 season ticket for Goodison Park and I feel like I'm betraying her. I still don't really want to go, but it's all so tempting.
254 Posted 26/07/2019 at 15:19:32
255 Posted 26/07/2019 at 15:21:18
It was Niasse. In the new place he has the biggest locker... right next to Mirallas, who will be signing a new contract any day now.
256 Posted 26/07/2019 at 15:28:43
Some things are fated.
At first I was a bit Meh but I actually really really like it. Every time you look at it you notice something different. Makes the emirates look like something from 1965.
You don't have to have the biggest but you can have the best. Old Trafford is falling apart with holes in the roof and leaks etc. What a time to be blue will feel more comfortable when the diggers actually turn up.
Hope it gets built in the next 5yrs. Half expecting some red in the city council to delay the project. All I'll say if that if this falls through then the damage to us fans could be catastrophic . don't know if I could take the heart break.
258 Posted 26/07/2019 at 15:54:26
These are only CGIs so I wouldn't be overly concerned about the minutiae of the lettering of the club name or which side if any that should appear on the exterior of the stadium as some have expressed. That is easily altered at any time and I rather think that in this day and age the stadium exterior will be used as a canvas, a cinema screen, on which to project lazer and light images rather than having some fixed or semi-permanent display.
I wondered at first about the mix of brickwork, steel and glass, but - maybe just my imagination - it seemingly strives to do a number of things.
The brickwork is in keeping with the original dock works (and of course has the distinctive Archie Leitch cross-hatched effect inlaid in the brick face; the cross-hatching appears to be replicated to a degree in some of the steel supports within the stadium).
The effect is that it complements and rises out of the same brickwork as the dock, whilst the prow-shape of the stadium and its close proximity to water gives the impression - more so, from a distance or approaching riverside, I imagine - that it is 'boat-like', seemingly sitting in water.
As the stadium scales upwards it evolves from its 'past' into a modern-day stadium of steel and glass. The roofing also appears to have a generous cover to better protect punters from the icy blasts that can come off the river in the depths of winter.
There will be an ample 'fan zone' area - capacity for 14,000 they say. Inside, it appears some of the concourses offer stunning views of both the city and the waterfront. And who wouldn't want a table in that lounge with such close access to the players' tunnel? To my eyes, the whole is very aesthetically pleasing.
If you haven't caught it yet, there is a really good 20 minute podcast with Dan Meiss up on the club site now. Link here:
259 Posted 26/07/2019 at 16:30:46
260 Posted 26/07/2019 at 17:15:39
The capacity disappoints me. We have the opportunity to have the biggest stadium in the city and haven't taken it.
Same day the other lot announce they are expanding too, absolute gutted.
Alan 9, Man City and Spurs both moved home from smaller grounds than Goodison. The wont fill it shout has no substance. Did they clone fans?
We had bigger attendances than Liverpool when we challenged for trophies.
Carraghers input genius for boards intentions. The spitter who said he hated Evertonians loves he fact we are building a smaller stadium than them.
They will dictate safe standing too if it gets approval.
261 Posted 26/07/2019 at 17:24:46
The only minor gripe is that dated 'Everton' typeface on the glass which looks amateur. I'm sure they can come up with something better and it's glass so easily replaced. I'm so glad Arsenal, Man City and West Ham went first so we could learn what not to build.
I really dislike this 'blue wave' nonsense though. It's just a piss-poor impersonation of Dortmund's 'yellow wall'. Do we not have our own sense of identity?? It's the same marketing nonsense as 'the People's Club'. We should really stop spewing this crap as a club.
Let's hope the stadium happens and it doesn't get a terrible name like 'The SportPesa Stadium'. I'm sure they'll be out of business by then anyway. ;)
262 Posted 26/07/2019 at 17:26:45
Going bigger than them for attraction reasons was essential.
263 Posted 26/07/2019 at 17:34:39
264 Posted 26/07/2019 at 17:42:48
265 Posted 26/07/2019 at 17:59:51
266 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:00:06
As for size, we need a ground sold out each week, not advertising on Talksport to try and fill the ground each week like Man City.
267 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:03:07
Listen to the linked Dan Meis podcast from around 5 minutes in, in which he discusses in detail the capacity question and the atmosphere generated.
"Capacity is not about ambition. That's just one component of it."
Analfield, whatever capacity it will grow to, is a patched up rebuild of a 1950s stadium. BMD will be custom-built from the ground up for the 21st century.
I couldn't care a monkey's fart if, standing in a smelly urinal at Analfield, one of their's leans over and says "mine is bigger than yours" when our own BMD stadium makes that such a hollow boast on every other criterion you could mention.
268 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:04:00
For God's sake this is the most positive and decisive move this club has made in its history, 500 million reasons to be happy.yeh we could have gone out and bought shit loads of overpriced players but I believe that this whole era is about building a foundation for Everton to become one of the biggest clubs in Europe.it may take a few more years but I for one have experienced the dark days much like many any man city fan and I believe we will become the number one club in the city in
The not to distant future.
If your that pissed off with the way the club is heading then go support someone else!!
Just like the shambles of a board that are gradually being rooted out you won't be missed!
269 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:13:52
Personally I would have had a small cage in corner where the serial moaners could gather every game and share just how bad their week has been!
270 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:15:55
If you think not being happy with capacity is a being negative it just shows how shallow people are. I already said it looked great so why isn't it positive?
All this Dan Meis atmopshere intimacy does nothing for me to be honest. He wont be generating an atmosphere there and the other shower and Spurs etc will have bigger attendances in great atmospheres without the jargon of intimacy.
Jay how pathetic is that shout about Anfield.
I go the toilet at goodison now and like every other man that does, I get tiny little dots of someone elses urine on my shoe and guess what, its never stopped me going to the game or the toilet.
What are you going to do, brag we have better toilets than them?
I just wanted to see us outsize them so Bramley Moore was the new attraction and THE venue where we make money when we dont play.
The game is about FFP and book balancing and the council give them a license to help their books.
271 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:21:07
272 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:29:12
You actually have some good points. No need to call others that have different views as being "silly" or "pathetic".
273 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:39:26
However I cant take comments about urine smelling grounds seriously when they mean absolute nothing to the game or even have any cloud on the praise Anfield wrongly gets.
The outsize thing to keep it simple I used outsize to explain we needed the biggest stadium in the city without the worry of Safe Standing being approved
If I wanted to build for the sake of it I could go mad and suggest 70000.
Spurs and City have left smaller stadiums than Goodison to move into bigger stadiums than Bramley Moore.
City are expanding again, why?
The need them extra few games of revenue and want to challenge old trafford for major events.
People are quick to forget we sold goodison out every week in far bigger attendances than today when we were the team up there
Isnt that what this is all about, getting back there?
274 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:42:16
Abraham Lincoln said, " You can fool some of the people some all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".
Both comment apply to the new "Goodison", or "BMD".
Personally - I like it!
But - to quote another well known saying - ' You pays your money and you takes your choice.".
275 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:48:10
276 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:48:18
I understand its totally outrageous to post in a non generic way on here or any of them brain zapp social media outlets but I can only post as I feel I honestly can, (however unpopular that may be) and try to remember my Evertonian roots of seeing masses of blues climbing into stadiums before the days we depressed too many.
277 Posted 26/07/2019 at 18:56:56
The fact they are seeking to expand needs context; they've been in the Ethiad for 16 years.
So City moved from a stadium that was more or less the same size as ours to a stadium that is more of less the same size as our proposed one. Once successful, they decide to further expand. I would argue Liverpool, albeit a different model, have done similar; expand as you grow and succeed. It wasn't too long ago that Anfield had a 45K capacity.
This potential move sees us increase our current capacity by approximately 12K and then we can build upon that as we deem necessary or fit in the future. Immediate growth with potential for further future growth.
But that aside, it looks stunning & I love it!!
278 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:09:27
279 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:11:57
They are doing it because the game moves forward fast and even without selling out every game they understand the need to expand with the popularity of the game.
People are talking like we will sell 52k in 3rd round Caraboa cup games.
Whats the difference in seeing more empty seats in an even bigger ground v Yoevil to a few empty seats in a 55/58k capacity league game?
Liverpool always needed a bigger stadium mate thats plain obvious.
Hicks and Gillet were clueless but knew that and couldnt pull it off.
They are just scared to leave Anfiled now with it being so popular and having so much hold on teams in giant games.
Forget City and Spurs if its easier and think of West Ham then Wolves next, they had nothing like Goodison but bigger than Bramley Moore.
Its not done for a laugh is it and West Ham are looking to make theres 62000 now.
280 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:11:57
That's not moaning boys that's a critical personal opinion.
Granted its tough for Moshiri and the board to decide where to draw the line on expenditure as we also need a proper team to fill it each home game.
281 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:15:46
I was a season ticket holder when we won leagues & trophies in the 84 - 87 period yet still struggled to fill our then 52K capacity stadium. I appreciate the economic circumstances and footballing landscape were different then but if I recall (and I haven't bothered googling), we struggled to get 32 - 33K average back then.
Great to see the different views on here and I'm not one to impose mine but I really do fail to see a negative in this proposal.
282 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:19:31
Part of me feels sad to go away but it has to be done. Our existing stadium is to put it bluntly a crumbling wreck and seriously holding us back.
The designs are very positive and appealing. I've been to most of the 'new' stadiums in the UK. The majority are very bland and lacking in style and differentiation.
The dockside location presents both opportunities and challenges. Transport and accessibility will be key issues to resolve but with some (pardon the pun) blue sky thinking these can be overcome.
I always see that capacity gets people agitated but the economics are crucial here. Many clubs have suffered financially after moving to new stadiums through over spending (Leiceter and Southampton both nearly went bust). Trust the financial gurus on this one.
Sadly I see that whilst we can at last celebrate some likely progress, a number of posters can still not talk about the new stadium without continually bringing Liverpool FC into the conversation.
With 2 match going LFC supporting brothers I am never short of interesting conversations about stadiums and ground expansions. Let's face it both clubs have have lagged behind others until very recently.
I read that some of you think the RS are really upset and concerned about our plans. 'Heads falling off etc'
Quite simply they don't care whether we get a new stadium or not ( and they are sensible guys in their 60's). I suspect their outlook is fairly typical.
They may wonder how we are going to pay for it ( and most of us on TW are also thinking about that) but that's as far as it goes. As for their own stadium they tell me they wouldn't swap it for anything in the world.
We can do nothing about our neighbours and posting inane comments about them is a waste of keystrokes.
Celebrate the fact that after the false starts of Kings Dock, Destination Kirkby and Walton Hall Park, we have a real 'Golden Vision' for an iconic stadium at long last.
The acid test is the funding. I am cautiously optimistic it will happen but will be a lot happier when I see cranes, bulldozers and cement lorises trundling along Regent Road.
Then I will think about where my grandson will want our season tickets to be in the new ground!
283 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:19:45
Pat 282 i agree mostly and i also believe all the facilities in the world wont bother them one iota.
284 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:30:22
I have the fortune (misfortune depending on how you view) to live in London now and know a lot of local West Ham fans. They despise what they have. And interesting to see your stats. The London Stadium already has a capacity of 60K (unregulated) but can go to 66K (regulated), so confused by the "plans" to expand to 62K.
Wolves; my wife is from Dudley and a lot of the in laws are Wolves fans. Their current capacity is 32K (ish); from what I've heard on the local news, the plans are to take it up to somewhere between 46 - 50K, so slightly smaller than our proposal.
The point on City and Liverpool is that they have expanded progressively.
285 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:36:24
A) it is currently not legal, and
B) it would be a very sensitive issue, as it is something currently opposed by the Hillsborough Support Group. The root of such opposition is totally understandable given the heartache those people have had. But, personally, I believe the safe standing barrier system to be much safer than the current accepted practice of standing in seating areas.
This would not be the time to go into major public debate on such an issue. There is no point in complicating matters for something which would be purely theoretical. Better to go through the planning process for what can currently be achieved, build flexibility into the stadium, see if the legislation changes, if it does then discuss the sensitivities around it with the appropriate people.
286 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:39:38
Their argument is all about the look and layout though isn't it? They are surely on the same page and happy with the new numbers?
287 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:44:04
288 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:45:32
289 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:47:56
It will hit everyone when these clubs end up with stadiums our size after being much smaller attractions than us.
West Ham dont mention capacity now because its not a worry anymore.
290 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:52:23
Exactly, capacity isn't a concern; just like it wasn't / isn't for Liverpool or City.
I'm personally content with the plans. I think we've got this right. We increase capacity significantly and retain a bit of character.
291 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:54:32
Thats my view of how I see it going and not a shred of doubt whatsoever that safe standing numbers will be capped.
This the whole reason I argue we should go bigger with or without safe standing.
292 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:57:33
Today I like the look but I also look forward.
293 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:57:47
Liverpool & United will always be top dogs in terms of numbers.
City are top dogs right now on the pitch. where it actually matters.
294 Posted 26/07/2019 at 19:59:28
295 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:02:07
296 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:02:14
"Jay how pathetic is that shout about Anfield."
That 'WHOOSHING!' sound you just heard, Paul...?
That's the sound of a playful analogy going waaay over your head.
Give it a good shake...whichever head is your preference, that is.
297 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:02:39
My main memory was going up the stairs and being gob- smacked when me and my Dad emerged and I first saw the huge pitch and stands and heard the fans.
In the end, whether there were 50,000 or 60,000 there didn't matter a jot.
With this new stadium it is great to know a load of kids will have the same wide-mouthed experience too.
I was hooked for life and that moment will hook them too.
298 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:06:48
I believe safe standing will be allowed in future, simply because it is much safer than what currently happens. If so, we would have a flexible capacity, 52,000 for all seated, perhaps 58,500 with safe standing. Sounds ok to me. Time will tell.
299 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:07:33
But then I felt emotional & disloyal. The memories, not just on the pitch, but the Goodison Supper Bar, the Anfield Pub and walk up City Road. Probably one of the last remaining traditional match going experiences left in the top flight of English Football!
God Bless you Goodison. God welcome you Bramley Moore Dock.
300 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:19:09
I like the plans for the new ground ( its always a ground never a stadium) but how many 21st century prem grounds extend or new builds only hold 52000
301 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:24:12
302 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:33:18
If we can get 52,000 week in week out screaming their lungs out, that'll do me. Fuck what the other lot get, that's the least of our problems the way they're playing these days. Anyway, best game I ever went to at Goodison? Everton v Bayern of course. And how many in the crowd that day? 49,476
303 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:35:33
I was at yesterday evenings presentation and I think that the ground will be stunning when completed.
304 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:37:28
In answer to your question, dunno! Do you? Do the research and get back to us.
There seems to be some misunderstanding here. I lean towards Paul The Esk's camp in which he argues for a higher capacity NOW. I'm not taking issue or arguing vehemently with anyone in this thread expressing the view that we should build more seats NOW.
I have shared the Dan Meis interview link. I have highlighted exactly where in the 20 minute interview he talks about the capacity question. I have offered absolutely no opinion for or against the mooted 52k capacity discussed in the thread, other than to say I'm not in the least bit concerned about having bragging rights over the 'bours on 'size'.
I'll leave it to each individual TWer to listen or not to Meis' comments and to comment or not on what he says.
305 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:43:46
I mean if I had the money, I would pay for it. So someone out there with the money, will.
306 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:51:45
The glass ceiling reflecting our name across the water will be spectacular (if that is what I think it will do)...
This will be an iconic stadium, purpose built for a team that has heritage and take its seriously.
People seem to think size matter and is a badge of honour. Meis actually answered that brilliantly. It is more important to have a full noisy stadium than a big one. 52000 is not small and with the fans close it will have an absolutely amazing atmosphere!
TV money means more than an extra few thousands chairs in the cheap seats.
Couldnt have wished or hoped for something this stunning! Very proud and wondering how I can get to the first game from across a continent!
307 Posted 26/07/2019 at 20:54:03
I am in dreamland (most of the time to be honest) and dream of passengers on cruise ships arriving at a new cruise terminal and then hearing that roar and visiting our shop along with the other attractions in the biggest development the city has seen for years.
Maybe we should also sing "And if..ya know...yer future..."?
308 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:06:06
They could probably get most of the money doing a selling a brick with your name on it !
A legacy not only for the Club but for the supporters of a hundred tears in the future
Easy enough to put a landing stage near the dock so our Wirral and North Wales brethren can join us without adding to the parking carnage
309 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:08:48
Great post. Goodison was ours. Our memories, our family, our fortress. Here is to hoping Bramley Moore will be the same to our young supporters. As you say, Its theirs,
Given the night lights, the siren and a roar off the river. They could make it a the new bear pit. A place where opposition teams just don't want to come.
310 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:10:22
And for this new season, I sense a burst of positiveness for the new season, albeit preseason has been tame, all considered, so far. This weekend may see more goals in Bremen, than the previous friendliest. Interesting to see if DCL starts as the striker.
But in MS and MB we trust.
The Liver Building lit, the Toffee trail from town to BMD, and the majesty of what is being achieved at BMD and GP, is if it all happens, some fine achievement.
And then.. for a winning team!
311 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:28:36
They get a 45000 capacity they might be the new Everton with closest foundations for breaking the top 4.
312 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:32:54
However, in our Championship season of 1963 our average attendance was 51,460 [a club record] so in light of that, my opinion is that 52,000 is a sensible figure to arrive at, with the possibility to increase if and when circumstances allow.
My only concern is that it may have come a little late for me, but I have no doubt that my grandson will grasp the baton.
313 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:38:26
What a great thing to have seventy one years of match going history under your belt, and the wonderful perspective that must bring.
I sincerely hope BMD is completed and you can get to a game there.
Respect John, respect.
314 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:45:04
We're going for quality supportors over quantity 'cos as you know 1 Evertonian is worth 20 redshite supporters so our new ground on the banks of the Royle Blue Mersey will be better than having 1 million at yours.
315 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:49:47
Let's see how the concept design evolves into final design as there's a lot of steps on the way and I have the feeling it will be a Design and Build tender so Meis will not actually be developing the design.
316 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:53:55
317 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:58:19
318 Posted 26/07/2019 at 21:59:50
I'll back sharp-witted Evertonians to always, ALWAYS have a reply that flummoxes them.
319 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:01:09
320 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:02:15
At the minute we are a middle to top club, yet tickets are hard to get. Without the kindness of the Abrahams family it would be a long time since I watched my team live. I hope and believe that a new stadium will go hand in hand with a winning team. Therefore, I fear that a fifty two thousand capacity will mean that overseas blues are rarely going to ever be in it.
Peter @298,I don't think I need to repeat my respect for your views but any kind of standing at a match concerns me. Rather than advocating safe standing I would argue that stewards should enforce safe seating.
I know I am behind the times on this and that I am in a minority but,for me, standing at football matches will take us back to bad old days.
321 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:05:14
322 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:08:33
Andy, I expected your response too but you'll get no response from me other than you won't list BK's sh*t because it is very easy to shoot down. Do you deny me the right to comment?
323 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:10:20
324 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:17:09
325 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:18:25
All hail Emperor Bill while he plays his fiddle.
326 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:18:58
327 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:26:17
As for standing, my views are perhaps unfairly biased by being injured and crushed as a kid.
328 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:27:45
People hold views, change views, play games and sometimes post after a skinful.
Let's focus for once on something good rather than drag up arguments about squabbles that are losing their relevance daily as the Board changes.
329 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:33:04
About the stadium capacity - like a lot of us I was hoping for 55k or over but Dermots post @ 297 got me reminiscing also. I started going to the game with my dad (God rest his soul) in 1961. I can recall in the 62/63 season I started going with two mates and the entrance to Goodison Rd terraces was 3/- if I am not mistaken.
There were only 5 home games with crowds over 60k in the season (courtesy Everton Results) Link and as I recall it any crowd over 50k and the place was jumping. John Mc you posted while I was typing this.
I have downloaded the app for iPad which shows views to each side of the stadium from the centre of the pitch.
Given the slope of the stands and the height of the roof and steel work above the pitch, our new stadium when it is built, will be even more threatening to away sides than Goodison is now (provided of course the crowd is in full voice)
Like many others have commented above, the more I look at the graphics, the more impressed I am. I think it is absolutely outstanding.
330 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:37:13
Dermot I will say no more but these weren't little spats. These were a man being tried by the Kangaroo court of Social Media with nobody to defend him. I won't get involved in an argument but hope that what I do say can perhaps change the views of some and give this guy some credit.
Everton were unsuccessful when BK was chairman therefore it was the fault of him is logically false.
331 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:39:21
332 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:40:48
If I were going to nit-pick I wanted to see a Leitch lattice on the inside that's more obvious than the roof steelwork where nobody will notice it unless it's pointed out. But regardless of that if we end up with something close to what's been published I'll be happy.
333 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:51:43
I also got to meet Dan Meis who was there. All I asked him was not to let us down after so many false dawns and, lo and behold, he told us its a done deal. The money is there, the permits will be approved and building will start next year!
It looks like its going to happen and I cant wait. I love it.
I even got interviewed outside by this really good looking bird for the radio.
334 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:53:20
Next week i'm quitting my life/job to build it...
People are gonna hate shit or like it man, that's their opinion...
I'm bidding to have my, daughters and girls seat as of now...Fuck the haters as you can stay in Anfield our old ground...or Goodison... a ground I feel at home at personally.
Let's get this beauty built asap.
* Did I say we need a striker too ?! @ Mike G, Bit like are we there yet? C'mon my brother, we got Coby SubZero, Zach, OPJ, Markkanen and WCJ starting bro...Thad off the bench, relax my man.
335 Posted 26/07/2019 at 22:56:55
This is great news and I hope will start a new era. Fekkn the RS, this is our 3rd ground, we dont need them.
EFC at the fore, and this spec, cant be beaten..
See the Boro, when they moved, see Sunderland, and they didnt do half the planning and preparations, so Id, say give the club a massive amount of credit and good will, based on this plan.
The past can catch up with all of us for better and worse, and in GP, and in following EFC, the finest days of my life.
Now the Echo is stirring preseason 1994, which was part Germany, the last leg, and Stadlohn and preseason, 25 years ago and Mike Walkers, demise.
Dave Prentice was there, and many others, but now is the future, and if BMD, comes off, and happens, its an incredible boost for all Evertonians.
Nows our time, ( but the caveat is some good buys, in the next 2 weeks,Lol)
336 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:01:04
" Nothing amazes me what you'll come out with next Darren" Colin 2018 lmfao.
God bless ya mate, you know me so well.
1: CB, 2: STRIKER or two, 3: Left footed winger, 4: STRIKER/ partner for 2 or DCL. 5: That stadium please but with the opportunity to expand like said. 6: Feck the RS...
337 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:01:16
338 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:02:13
Told you, you've got the face for radio mate! 🤣
339 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:03:45
340 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:04:46
341 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:05:37
Anyone care to guess who the following is dedicated to?
342 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:11:18
It's our fellow RS new song I say...hahahaaaa, Welcome to EVERTON
343 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:12:09
344 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:12:26
345 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:21:33
346 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:23:26
347 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:26:50
I'm going to get the train over to the other side of the river (I'm currently living in the North end of the city) on the morning of the game, a few pints, then I'll let everyone know I'm getting the ferry to the match!!!!!!
A ferry docking point at Bramley Moore would be a dream come true!!
348 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:29:37
I really don't think this is the thread for this. Why do you not put up a article "rehabilitating" Bill Kenwright? Let us have a proper debate. Come on, back up your defence with facts. Stop commenting and state your view. Rehabilitate your man.
I can assure you that my views are not so entrenched that I will not view your article with an open mind. Let us hear from you, not from the sidelines, but in your full, backed by facts, argument.
349 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:30:13
350 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:34:53
See my link at 341.
He's just baiting.
351 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:45:17
352 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:45:32
Will ticket prices increase?
I do like the design and think this is a very positive step forward.
353 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:46:37
Fuck me he'll charge me per millimetre too.
Hope we get our signings in man, not the 24 hour garage ones we are accustom to though...even retired Crouch gave up, nice guy tbh as he lives near me and walks his dog where I walk mine
We gotta trust this...and I for one will.
Then I can slate or moan if we don't do so...
354 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:51:21
355 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:52:35
And Martin (#330), with respect, if you think there's a case for the defence of Kenwright you probably think BoJo isn't an egotistical, lying, racist ignoramus. The evidence is clear against both charlatans, albeit not to the extent of criminal liability, yet.
356 Posted 26/07/2019 at 23:59:02
If it does as claimed it will, then in modern day politics, and synthetics, EFC, deserves a gold medal and UK political salute.
This is a defining moment in the history of The City and the North Docks.
Inspiring, but let's see the plans for transport etc and the 3-4 mile radius of Bramley-Moore Dock.
The worst bottle necks in local transport exist, so let's hope future planning and vision in the future infrastructure is also well planned.
357 Posted 27/07/2019 at 00:14:50
358 Posted 27/07/2019 at 00:44:56
359 Posted 27/07/2019 at 00:54:01
Imagine how many fans would have voted against concrete posts that obstruct the view when Goodison park was built? I would have been grateful since our view is partly obstructed in lower Bullens.
Imagine our views on food and toilets would we have changed facilities at Goodison Park?
We now have the first view of our new ground and they are asking us what do you want to change?
Maybe the players tunnel could be made of glass that electrically becomes opaque when needed. The point being we can still change, add or delete things. This build is a 3-year project. With 1 year to go before building starts and thousands of much-needed jobs are created on Merseyside thanks to Everton FC.
We have another 3-year project involving Mr Brands and Mr Silva. We are one year in and we now have players we never thought we would get playing football that has the whole of the league concerned that the lion of Merseyside is waking up.
As we enter the 2nd year of the 3 year plan we have to be careful of financial FairPlay. No one likes to see good players go but many have left and then ultimately found themselves in a worse situation. This year I am hoping we are going to be pleasantly astounded again in the quality of players we sign but we must sell to invest in new players.
We are not in Europe but we have to inform the current and prospective players that we will be very very shortly, please share the journey with us.
360 Posted 27/07/2019 at 01:51:36
361 Posted 27/07/2019 at 02:09:54
362 Posted 27/07/2019 at 03:27:43
The planning and overall approach to stakeholder engagement has been professional and prudent.
Well done Everton FC!
This will be a great project for Everton and for the City of Liverpool.
I can't wait to see a game in the new stadium.
363 Posted 27/07/2019 at 05:21:25
The Bramley-Moore Dock project and timescale of consultations etc has been set out for some time and is happening on schedule.
It has absolutely nothing to do with masking the sale of players. If you think the club would go to the expense of hiring the Titanic Hotel, flying Dan Meis over etc etc, just to provide a smokescreen for flogging a fringe player like Lookman, then you really do need to get a grip.
364 Posted 27/07/2019 at 05:49:46
I guarantee that whatever the RS supporters say, they are absolutely puking about the reality that we will be in a fantastic state-of-the-art stadium on the Mersey with our history lovingly embroidered into its fabric. We are leaving a lot of memories behind us at the Old Lady but it is really exciting to create a new story in BMD.
It will feel like we are sluming it when we have a derby game at Anfield. Take sterile wipes is my advice.
365 Posted 27/07/2019 at 06:46:29
At least I'll be at the Man City game in September as long as EPL and TV don't fuck-up the timing again!
366 Posted 27/07/2019 at 07:26:45
367 Posted 27/07/2019 at 07:58:52
368 Posted 27/07/2019 at 08:11:07
Get the players to come out at the home end, backed by a blue wall of noise. Things like that will have a far bigger impact than looking at players through glass eating a prawn butty.
369 Posted 27/07/2019 at 08:46:24
Maybe part of the reason for the restricted incomings so far this window...
370 Posted 27/07/2019 at 09:04:13
Spurs developed a young squad over the 18 months they didn't buy, hopefully we've done the same. Although I'm sure I read that funding for Bramley-Moore Dock will be separate from transfer monies. Although if we sell Richarlison or Pickford in a couple years they may be worth close to £100M each by then.
371 Posted 27/07/2019 at 10:01:02
372 Posted 27/07/2019 at 10:18:23
And not just for ferries but also for my yacht. Though you'd still get the scallies - "can I mind yer yacht, mister?".
373 Posted 27/07/2019 at 11:11:56
In DM, we trust.
The RS colleagues at work have been stum so far, and thats not normal, let them build their meccano set up, if they wish, on our old ground.
374 Posted 27/07/2019 at 11:17:09
375 Posted 27/07/2019 at 11:20:52
376 Posted 27/07/2019 at 11:23:37
I hop we manage to replace them both.
378 Posted 27/07/2019 at 11:36:54
89% of fans asked for a 60000 seater. Meis is now thanking fans for the interest and ideas they didnt listen to.
Said from day one the "you asked we listened" line was to make fans feel involved and the intimacy jargon was another smooth line.
Might aswell forget it though because like most things Everton, we will all realise when its too late.
At the same time you are well entitled to like what you see. All choices and opinions.
379 Posted 27/07/2019 at 12:14:48
Looks stunning inside. I wish there was a translucent retractable roof that could come through inside the roof (from the one that's shown)... Nevermind. Will be a lot colder on the waterfront in the winter than at Goodison!
380 Posted 27/07/2019 at 14:45:49
Totally agree about making our thoughts known about the proposed capacity. There's a couple of spaces on the second Consultation Survey for comments so make full use of it with thought out reasons why you think 52,000 will be inadequate.
The club keep saying fans and 'interested parties' were consulted re capacity. I'm a fan, I've had a season ticket for decades and I'm a shareholder. I wasn't asked and I don't know anyone who was.
381 Posted 27/07/2019 at 15:18:58
Whether we will get tickets or not I am not so sure. 52000 is not enough. It will sell out easily every game.
382 Posted 27/07/2019 at 15:23:15
I think this fact will add immeasurably to the demand for season tickets and match day tickets. Away teams will sell out their allocations bar none.
I am not unhappy at all with things as they stand, but I think a 55k + capacity is realistic. More investigation should be done to see if this is feasible within the current design parameters.
It is possible that after the initial planning application is approved, a solid and fully researched case for 55k will then be put forward as an amendment.
383 Posted 27/07/2019 at 15:49:34
Part 3, for example, shows the work being done behind the scenes about the transport question. Very informative.
385 Posted 27/07/2019 at 16:28:07
If we are building towards success then we should look at what size of crowds success may bring rather than rooting capacity in what we think we need now when we are not successful. If we only stick an extra 13k seats in then match going fans may be looking at price increases of 20-30%.
386 Posted 27/07/2019 at 16:40:21
387 Posted 27/07/2019 at 17:32:42
In the early 90's attendances dropped off massively an then started to grow later where they have been sustained and now we're sold out virtually all the time.
Always used to wait for the attendance to come up back when there was standing and it'd say 36000 it'd be be well more than that!
388 Posted 27/07/2019 at 18:12:33
Spurs' new stadium cost nowhere near £1bn. A considerable amount of the cost was in the buying up of nearby housing and industrial units. It was a long, expensive, journey which took around 12 years from start to finish.
389 Posted 27/07/2019 at 18:14:42
We will always have up and down attendances if we don't challenge or win things but when we did, Evertonians came back in numbers. And I know a few bandwagon blues I bet we all do.
Those that never seen a round of the cup but had a ticket for Wembley
How many did they say came out after the FA cup win v United in 95?
350 000 wasn't it? And we escaped relegation the same season.
390 Posted 27/07/2019 at 18:30:34
Sorry £850m. I personally wouldn't say that's "nowhere near" a billion and reiterate what I said which was that it cost close to a billion. 85% of a billion is close enough in my book.
391 Posted 27/07/2019 at 18:40:33
With a micro brewery and dedicated cheese and wine area nah! Not for me.
392 Posted 27/07/2019 at 19:09:28
The survey results suggested that of the 8000 fans questioned on how they would get to the match, 55% said by public transport. Whatever way you look at it that is going to be a lot of people.
I am hoping that Alisdair Jones, our retired planning expert 😉 will be able to get to the site to give his assessment on the transport and access / egress questions. I will be very interested to see what he comes up with.
393 Posted 27/07/2019 at 19:25:19
1. How old are you ? If I can be so impertinent
2. BBC, Telegraph, The Times
Are those hacks architects?
394 Posted 27/07/2019 at 19:40:19
“Are those hack architects”. Are you?
Tell me, what are your qualifications? Regarding architecture?
How close are you to the corridors of power at THFC, that you can confirm or deny the estimated costs of Spurs new stadium as stated by journalists of the Times or Telegraph? Or the BBC?
The point I was making was that the sums I quoted were not from the comics but from more (usually) “thoughtful “ chip paper, compared to the Star or the Sun.
Maybe youre upset because I denigrated your favourite source of information!😁
Forgive my impertinence but I recently opened a fine Rioja 😊
395 Posted 27/07/2019 at 19:50:04
But my point was that the journos are the same.
As for age.
Go back to an earlier post. This is for the next gen, we have had our time.
And I am close to 60 if it helps.
No fall out mate
396 Posted 27/07/2019 at 19:59:20
397 Posted 27/07/2019 at 20:01:13
‘Ere, are you going to the Excelsior after the first home game?
You can buy my ale all night. And my missus.
No fall out at all!
I just think that some journos have some credibility and refrain from publishing down right lies!
398 Posted 27/07/2019 at 20:11:36
399 Posted 27/07/2019 at 20:14:52
I was intending to go to the Excelsior but after Demot's ageist comment I'm beginning to wonder if I'll be able to manage the walk up to Lime Street Station.
Just going for a lie down!
400 Posted 27/07/2019 at 20:18:32
401 Posted 27/07/2019 at 21:04:18
Meis himself has designed American stadiums like this (check them https://meisstudio.com/) even some with retractable roofing.
402 Posted 27/07/2019 at 21:16:28
403 Posted 28/07/2019 at 07:17:35
404 Posted 28/07/2019 at 07:42:43
Just off for another nap.
405 Posted 28/07/2019 at 10:45:26
Dermot #395, shattered my elusions - I at 58 years young was looking forward to the next era. Feeling old now. Oh well, perhaps someone will invent a flying Zimmer!
406 Posted 28/07/2019 at 11:00:34
Mike #347, would need a very big ferry or lots of them. There will be hundreds of rowing boats manned by scallies offering trips and site seeing tours. The lucky punters will get to go in Brents yacht after it has been nicked.
407 Posted 28/07/2019 at 11:25:57
408 Posted 28/07/2019 at 11:43:25
410 Posted 28/07/2019 at 14:38:09
411 Posted 28/07/2019 at 15:09:03
412 Posted 28/07/2019 at 15:11:23
413 Posted 28/07/2019 at 16:24:18
414 Posted 28/07/2019 at 17:19:44
If we look towards the end of the Offical club video (on the link below), the shows the interior of the stadium with what can be seen as a uniform and bowl like 2 tiers all around.
On the same page further down there's a picture of a 3 tier (main stand), 2 tier (Bullens) and a solid wall of seats for the Gwladys end.
The ground layout map seems to point to a uniform 2 tiers all around
I like the look of the 3 tier and wall like Glawdys street and would be happy to accept that layout considering we haven't got all the money in the world to spend, but if it was a uniform 2 tier all around I wouldn't be so happy.
What are we actually going to get?
415 Posted 28/07/2019 at 18:05:32
416 Posted 28/07/2019 at 18:17:08
I wonder why they've shown a 3 tier stand in one of the pictures?
Either way I wouldn't be happy with 2 tiers all round it's basically a square shaped bowl ( a contradiction but true).
417 Posted 28/07/2019 at 18:24:22
418 Posted 28/07/2019 at 18:38:17
I like the general look of the stadium, but it's so important we get that layout inside correct, it's where the action happens (after all!).
Reading between the lines they used the word "Proposed", which means "subject to change" and that's why there's a lot of vagueness about it.
I hoping the go with a wall of seats for the Glawdys, 3 tiers for the main stand and a smaller away end.
I do not want to end up with the stadium of light, which is basically 2 tiers all around.
419 Posted 28/07/2019 at 18:40:39
420 Posted 28/07/2019 at 21:55:19
At a recent presentation preview, the club stated that there were only 20 boxes or so, yet again there appears to be 2 walls of glass between tiers on this side alone. They could be large glass-fronted lounge areas.
421 Posted 28/07/2019 at 22:23:19
Specifically with regard to the apparent two-tier look in some images, he mentions that due to the steepness of the stands there will be a need to get those sitting in the upper half in the 'Gods' to their seats NOT from ground zero from within the stand, but via the surrounding concourses behind the stands. He says it will be possible to walk around the entire inner concourses to better be able to take in the outside views.
422 Posted 28/07/2019 at 22:25:14
423 Posted 29/07/2019 at 01:18:46
They've shown us a picture of Scarlett Johansson, but we could end up with one of the Spice Girls! Marvellous!
I believe every image that has been shown has been shown for a purpose, just maybe if we don't say anything we get the 2 tiers all around and if we shout we get 3 tiers and a few bells and whistles?
424 Posted 29/07/2019 at 11:00:07
I still have some slight reservations, and here's what I posted in the comments section as a result:
Capacity: had hoped for mid-50's capacity. Would have liked to see an image depicting how an increased seated capacity to 60k would look. Not sure how 62k can ever be achieved by safe standing alone. Even at 2:1 ratios.
Think some of the CGIs are slightly deceptive and contradict the cross sections. One image shows a 3 tier mainstand, yet the initial cross sections do not appear to show any 3 tiered stands. (Unless I've missed them). If the 3 tier stand is correct there appears to be 2 glass walled frontages between tiers. We have been told that there are only 20 exec boxes, so what are these glass walls for? Lounges? Is this not a missed opportunity or does the club believe it can only fill 20 boxes? Would they not make great hotel suites for year round usage at this site?
The initial wireframe drawing showing the roof structure also appears to show far fewer king trusses at the home end roof than the corresponding CGI image. Minor detail I know, plus I realise that these images are only a representation of a work in progress, but it can cast some doubt on the authenticity/accuracy of that representation.
Not yet convinced that an East-West orientation wouldn't have been a better utilisation of the space available, or that a massive cost saving could be achieved by lowering the pitch into the dock basin slightly. Thus allowing the Quayside walls to remain exposed as a feature, and for fans to enter the stadium at its first floor reducing cost of vertical transport, and addressing height restrictions too.
The home end looks great, and the externals too. Not clear how the home end splits into an upper/lower section of different rake angles to allow safe-standing in the lower section, and for the upper section to then rise to the same height as the side stands. (Both upper and lower currently look at the same rake).
To be multi-functional, I had hoped for a closing or permanent full roof. The close proximity to the pitch plus the high roof will mean that a lot of the lower rows will be overly exposed to rain. Nothing worse than sitting in the rain.
Transport: seems a bit weak at present. Needs a station at Vauxhall. The connection with the city centre needs to be far more pronounced than a few shuttle buses if we're really going to get sufficient numbers out of their cars. Will probably need a proportion of all city centre bus services redirected or extended to BMD, and/or a dedicated mass rapid transit system how they access the site needs to be modelled, as the dock road itself will probably be swamped by pedestrians for several hundred metres and Great Howard Street will come under a lot of pressure too. The Northern line then creates a barrier for west-east pedestrian and vehicular permeation. blocking walking routes to some of the areas covered by walking distance diagrams.
Most are only fairly minor reservations/observations tbh, but their cumulative effects may be not so trivial.
425 Posted 29/07/2019 at 12:42:52
For me, it's absolutely vital we get the atmosphere inside right above all else.
The stadium from the outside as far as I'm concerned has to be presentable and nothing more, I would like to know how much went (after being bullied by Unesco and the Council) from the overall budget into making it shine on the outside that could of gone on the fan experience inside?
If the stadium has the right atmosphere inside I will forgive things like transport links and all the other nice to have things that aren't as good as they can be and I think most other fans will also feel this way if they can be a part of that winning atmosphere.
426 Posted 29/07/2019 at 23:04:40
I agree that the atmospheric qualities have to be right. On that score, they're pinning a lot of their hopes on the large single tier home end, or blue wall. A tried and tested method of massing large numbers under one roof, that may still need careful consideration of roof geometry to maximise its effectiveness.
Personally I think I'd prefer 2 home ends, as we have now, but on a grander scale like say St James's Park before its extension. 2 large wrap around single tier end stands, or one large double-decker, and one single tier? Perhaps One with safe standing, one all-seater to reflect a slightly different character and demographic, as at present.
I also agree that, the internal form and proportions are generally far more important than the exterior when measuring a stadium's quality as both a viewing and atmospheric platform. The exterior plays little or no part in those key functions.
The logistics have to work too though. After all, the atmosphere won't be great if people stay away because they can't get in, out and away without too much congestion, inconvenience or delays.
427 Posted 30/07/2019 at 01:26:37
I'm kind of hoping while over hear Dan Meis finds him self lost and ends up in London outside Spurs new home and decides while here to a quick look inside, he'll then be thinking along the same lines as myself.
It doesn't have to as spectacular as theirs, but along those lines will do nicely for me.
428 Posted 30/07/2019 at 01:43:23
I thought he'd said he was at NWHL for our game at the end of last season. If not I'm sure he'll be very familiar with it. Perhaps you could give him a reminder as feedback in the consultation survey.
429 Posted 30/07/2019 at 10:29:09
To the right of the site plan it also show three openings in the dock wall that are to provided access and egress to and from the site.
I found it also helped me gain an understanding of why the layout is North to South and the restraints that Dan Meis has to overcome due to the width of the site.
I came across another document, which no doubt Dan Meis would have used as a guideline when designing our new stadium. It is quite large document but worth a read for all involved in the consultative meetings
On page 46 ( a good place to start if you want to cut to the chase) it also recommends that the stadium is laid out North to South.
For me the main issue remains public transport.
430 Posted 30/07/2019 at 11:25:26
The pictures and animations certainly have impact - but I still prefer Tom Hughes's images on a re-engineered GP.
431 Posted 30/07/2019 at 19:06:04
432 Posted 30/07/2019 at 20:32:12
Thanks, but most of the stuff that I have ever posted is pretty old now and rooted in studies I did over 20yrs ago. The financial backdrop to it being far less ambitious in scope than BMD.
That said, I think it would be a decent exercise to show what say 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 the outlay might achieve at a redeveloped GP. I'm quite certain 55-60k would be far more readily achieved. but somehow, I doubt you'll ever see those CGIs haha.
433 Posted 01/08/2019 at 17:36:13
It looks brilliant, with the seats right on-top of the pitch, and with no real spaces anywhere, I reckon its going to be even more intimidating than Goodison Pk, which is surely what were all hoping for?
434 Posted 02/08/2019 at 08:18:20
Some excellent points gents that will help me on my way to compiling my thoughts on this project.
I am aiming to visit the presentation/exhibition on 13th of August with another of our TW correspondents, John Hoggarth; he of the ferry ideas. We are also aiming to go to Sandhills station and walk to the site to get an impression of the route to the stadium and the surrounds. In that regard Toms comments are helpful and provide food for thought. At this stage in the planning process it is often the case that transport details are patchy. One of my biggest gripes about the planning system as it is currently operated.
Laurie. Can't believe you read all 162 pages of UEFA'S Stadium Guide. But thanks for directing us to the relevant bit.
435 Posted 02/08/2019 at 08:47:01
436 Posted 02/08/2019 at 09:17:15
After the presentation at the Titanic I did the walk into town. I had hoped to do the sandhills walk beforehand, but left it too late. Tbh, I'd done the dock road walk a few times as the shareholders association used to hold their meetings in the Bramley Moore pub, so knew it was a bit of a trek. It is difficult to judge and be objective beyond saying it took me just over half an hr to get to Liverpool 1 bus station at my normal walking pace. (I'm not a particularly fast walker)
That in itself doesn't sound a lot, but in terms of access/dispersal and general convenience it's certainly not ideal. The saving grace is both merseyrail and the relative proximity to the city centre, hopefully allowing a continuous high capacity shuttle bus service. The club have not given any indication about how many buses would be made available or would be needed. This will also be dependent on how the few traffic lanes feeding the site can cope. When I arrived at the Titanic, Grt Howard St was crawling along, even without a stadium. Admittedly it was rush hr, with some traffic works, but it was evident that this will need some serious work. Hopefully the whole Liverpool waters scheme will demand its own dedicated MRT system along thd waterfront to feed town and perhaps Sandhills too. In the past trams and monorails have been mentioned fof that purpose, but not sure if that will be in place before 2023 (if ever). Car parking is another issue.
437 Posted 02/08/2019 at 09:28:59
I said on another thread that I think the ferrys will come back into use, and when you walk on this route, then it seems a very obvious solution.
I was thinking about parking and sailing, but Im not sure where the land is on the other side, to make such a huge car-park, although the M53, is right on the plot, once you get over the other side of the river.
The ferry was £11 as well, so make that a score once youve parked your car, and I dont think its going to come cheap?
438 Posted 02/08/2019 at 09:34:42
439 Posted 02/08/2019 at 09:40:07
More bike-lanes and getting people walking, sounds great, but this road links the north to the south of the city, and just doesnt make sense to me, especially now we are also putting a 52/60,000 stadium onto the waterfront and just over one mile away.
440 Posted 04/08/2019 at 08:07:21
Ride up from any of the transport hubs to the ground.
Blue and White Tuk Tuks ?
Automated smart electric taxi pods running up and down there in 5-10 years time.
441 Posted 05/08/2019 at 20:13:12
442 Posted 07/08/2019 at 15:07:35
I am looking forward to seeing your comments after you and Tom do your survey.
In my experience corporate types love a slideshow so I knocked something up that you may find useful.
I ran it past Lyndon who has given the reference to ToffeeWeb the OK.
Feel free to use, not use, or alter as you wish.
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