Everton Women drop the 'Ladies' tag

I demand equality! I want Lil-lets on the front of ALL of our shirts.

Ben, my daughter plays football at U12’s level, has her first game of her 3rd season this morning.

I have seen first hand at her previous club how the boys and teams get preferential treatment over the girls, just because they are boys, quite frankly it’s wrong.

Why are girls not allowed to be treated the same within football? Or any sport for that matter?

I moved to her to a club that is specifically for girls, and witnessing over the summer all the girls receiving a level playing field of training and equipment, my daughter has come in in leaps and bounds.

Here’s hoping for 3 points, 12pm KO.

I don't really thinks its important, unless they (the ladies, that is what they are after all... sorry, 'girls' – or am I supposed to say 'people' now? – just let's not get too hung-up on this 'progressive view of identity' thing!!) want to do this JUST because they think it's somehow 'unfair' to be known as being... again... what they simply are!!!

Such a question as 'Did you know Everton are playing at [fill in opposition here], tonight?' should never cause any misunderstanding, just because someone wants to hide, for some reason, what they really are!!

(You're supposed to be proud of exactly who you are, right? Then be it!!!)

As for the team itself, as on the footballing front, all due respect. I certainly don't see any reason the women shouldn't have their own game, leagues, etc... and all the very best to them!!!

Damn right Ben. And no strings attached !

I don't want to see ANY coverage on this site, it has nothing to do with the Everton I support. I have no more desire to read about it here than 19th century Mongolian architecture.

There are some very interesting reads on Mongolian architecture John. I have a masters in it. However 19th century wasn’t their finest.

My point exactly Simon.

I suspect many feel the same way, John, but haven't been brave enough to say it. I don't support or care about the women's team. They are an entirely different club in my mind. The two are nothing to do with each other. I don't automatically support, follow, or care about Everton Ladies/Women just because I support Everton.

It doesn't mean that I'm not pro women's football. I just believe that they are two separate teams playing on completely different levels and there is no reason to report anything about the ladies team on this site.

Obviously this is simply my personal perspective, and I accept that others may feel differently.

I think their average attendance of what, 207 last season does say quite a lot.

I’m with John and Chris here.

I am barely aware of women’s football, have no interest in it and certainly don’t link Everton (Ladies) in any way to the men’s team.

I don’t have a problem with women playing football, good luck to them, but it’s not for me and I don’t give a flying fig whether Everton (Ladies) have a team of not.

Simon @6. Agreed, though some of the lamaseries built in the 16th and 17th centuries really are quite beautiful.

Can't agree Chris #8. The women's team is part of EFC, just as EitC and the youth teams are. Now I don't read about the U-23s etc or about EitC but they absolutely should be reported upon, as many fans are interested.

I always found the "Ladies" descriptor sounded a bit 19th Century, like female tennis players wearing hats and long skirts. A good decision to scrap it.

What's passing for "jokes" on this article is kind of why they're changing the name.

I bet they are super-happy that some of our fans are giving their approval to them playing football! What year is this again?

I'm surprised and disappointed to read most of the above comments on this thread. Especially the first one, from Ben Howard, which - amongst other things – is just crass. “Ooh, something about women... I can make a tampon joke.” Come on everyone, it isn't the 1970s anymore. Move with the times.

The Everton Ladies have decided to rebrand, and will be known as Everton – or Everton Women when the need is there to distinguish them from the men's team. Is that such a problem for everyone? The hope is to forge closer links between the women's sides and the rest of the club. I think it's a good thing. You don't have to watch their games, you just have to share a little bit of space with them – online and actual. I welcome that.

Comments# 1 and # 4 on this thread really must have been written by semi retarded sniggering schoolboys.

Kevin, I'm not asking anyone to agree. I'm merely saying that I don't personally view the two teams as being the same club. They are separate entities to me. Playing in separate arenas and run by different people. I don't have to feign interest in one just because I love the other.

I have no affinity for the women's team. Maybe genuine supporters of Everton Women can create a fansite for their team and fans?

Andrew, it is not the content that is most offensive, just the fact that they think they have said something witty. For the love of fuck, a grown man has actually thought, I've got a tampon gag, a really original one and, you know what, It is so fucking hilarious that I am going to share it with every Evertonian in the world. God almighty!

Whenever a female football article is on here it always completely divides the responses. I remember that from the women’s World Cup.

Fair comment, Chris, really have not a lot of interest in the ladies team but I wish them well.

Over 30k at Emirates today to watch Man City vs Man Utd. 40k expect tomorrow at Stamford Bridge for Chelsea v Spurs. Looks like women's football is catching on.

And who thought the World Cup would change perceptions?

It's Everton. The badge and the kit are the same. Why? Because Everton is a club. It isn't Everton Senior Men's Team. It is Everton Football Club.

I like to know how every aspect of the club is getting on; every age level and both the senior sides. I don't profess to know lots about the ladies side – used to be one of the best and many current England stars did play for them like Bronze and Duggan is about the extent of my knowledge – but being a Blue I could not help but wince when I hear they were getting left behind as the brand names all started jumping on the bandwagon, like our coach-attacking, flag-waving neighbours.

They represent our club and it is natural many would be interested.

Same way as I view it too Andrew James.

They represent the badge the same way as the men do, I’m going to watch them at Birmingham tomorrow, with my daughters in tow who love watching them, as I do too, they also take the time to come over at full time and say hi to the kids.

No superstar mentality from any of them.

Kevin@12

"Can't agree Chris #8. The women's team is part of EFC, just as EitC and the youth teams are. Now I don't read about the U-23s etc or about EitC but they absolutely should be reported upon, as many fans are interested."

Kevin, isn't the whole idea of our youth teams (at all age groups) to nurture talent so that one day, one or two of the players might be good enough to play in our first team? I don't think the women's team is just as relevant to EFC as the the youth teams are because none of the female players will ever play for our first team.

I don't think reporting upon the women's game on ToffeeWeb can do a great deal of harm. If people aren't interested, they simply don't have to click on the articles and read about it. If people are interested (which I'm sure there will be some) they can read about it and have healthy debate about the various different topics in the women's game.

Perhaps the most effective solution would be to have a ToffeeWeb poll to see if the majority want the women's game reported upon? I understand this could be problematic for Lyndon and Michael though, as it could increase their workload. So much of their diligent time must be taken up with the men's game, which this site was originally set up for.

An irritating name change to be honest as it only will confuse the issue of which side is being referred to. Same as the BBC placing women's stories in amongst the general football articles: I keep reading things like 'Everton set to sign top striker' only to have my hopes dashed.

ps: This is tokenism at its worst from the club: they clearly have no interest in the woman's game whatsoever, having allowed the side to plummet from being one of the best under Mo Mowlam to a one that is, frankly, a bit garbage.

Mind you, a few years ago the same could be said of the men's.

Good to see what us blokes think the team should be called. Some almost seem spooked by the idea of women playing for Everton at all.

Fear not, our LGBT team is doing well!

'Nuff now, you wind up merchant. Ed.

I think the ‘Ladies' tag is appropriate to drop. They are ‘Women' so when distinguishing from the ‘Men's' team will be referred to as Everton ‘Women's' team. We aren't ‘Everton Gentlemen' are we?

The tampon gag is crass. The word ‘Lady' connotes a manner of behaviour and I had a little snoop around the Etymology site and it comes up with some interesting stuff – like ‘one who kneads dough' but in all sincerity, it is a word that indicates a way of acting and being (largely defined by men). It is becoming a little archaic and I have no issue with it being dropped.

The wit, tact and intelligence of the 19th hole on display above.

Fucking hell, let's crack open "The Best of Top Gear" and then crack one off over Babestation while the little woman is safely tucked in upstairs.

In the Southwest of Western Australia, as I stood in for my wife who was on nursing duty, I was asked to chair the inaugural meeting of the local women's football association.

First item of business was a title for this new competition. I was a bit surprised when all the females present at the meeting decided not to use 'Ladies' as part of the title. They decided to name it:

The Country Women's Soccer Association of Western Australia.

That was my only role in the association's formation and I am pleased that, 45 years later, it is still thriving.

There's a much wider point here.

If girls on Merseyside are inspired by Everton - an Everton senior side who are not male and they can identify with - is that not something special?

They can aspire to something, whether keeping fit, getting higher education (which many of the ladies have done) and avoid the pitfalls of living in an area which austerity has made life hard for?

They are role models.

Our game is competing with an increasing number of sports for a share of spectators and players. Mothers, particularly those with previous playing experience, are very influential.

Everton best Birmingham 1-0

As always TW brings out some interestig views.

I always hated the fact that the American money men tried to dumb down soccer as a women's game so they big up the macho game they call football.

Same thing here in Australia with AFL.

Women's football is a sport that encourages healthy living, discipline and community..

Everton Women's team should have the same respect as the Everton men's team.

Everton Football Club has a 100-years-plus history and should embrace and encourage the Everton name *(brand) if it has been taken on in the tradition of being associated with its name.

It's important that the Everton's women team is developed as part of the overall strategy of the Club both for equality and good financial reasons. I expect the growth rate of the women's game to be greater than the men's game in the coming years.

I am very interested and glad to hear from Kevin #2 that good progress is being made on the necessary developments I have mentioned. The best of luck to his daughter.

I do come across references to the team's progress and achievements and take pride in them. But such references and information are hard to come by. I would be grateful. to get more information.

Yes. ToffeeWeb would be a great place to do this. It has given me such an insight into Everton as it is.

I have often thought that the vacated Goodison Park would be a good base for the development of the women's game in the club. I have no reasons for this other than to provide facilities and develop the women's game. But I do have doubts over the Stadium Project because of what I perceive as a lack of a overall plan.

It is obvious to me that the current achievements of Everton women have been achieved by a dedicated management and players and real hard work on their part. Well done, the senior team could learn from them.

They have earned the title Everton, and are right to claim it.

Jerome;

Thank you for the kind words.

Grass roots girls football is ever growing across the country, and probably faster than the boys, but is still playing catch up, many of the kids aspire to play professionally, mine included, we live in the Midlands and her aim is to trial for Birmingham Women’s next June at youth level, her absolute goal is to use them as a stepping stone and eventually play for Everton Women, as a parent I will help her anyway I possibly can.

As mentioned, this level of growth is happening across the UK, Europe and the world, attendances are growing at games, and Everton Women as a club should aspire to be one of the best, if not the best, and not get left behind.

Just for info, my daughters team won 10-0 Saturday, she plays right wing back and got 3 assists and had two daisy cutters saved or blocked. Local derby up next this Saturday.

Funny Kevin I just looked at ToffeeWeb and trying to find the Sky News channel, came across women's football on BBC RB1 with huge attendances and great on target shooting. Women's football is expanding at a high rate than I imaged and Everton are one of the elite Clubs.

You daughter comes across as a capable footballer with a bright future and appears to have the right motivation, with your proactive support( which I can identify with) to play professionally.

There are a lot of tangible benefits playing a team sport and to aspire to the highest level, especially when support and the environment build confidence. What she has and will achieve will be of lasting benefit through out her life, what ever journey she choses to follow.

Again the best of luck to her.

Yes ToffeeWeb should support, provide info and promote women's football. For Everton it makes commercial sense.

All the discussions and arguments about terminology on this topic could perhaps be circumvented if the men's side were called EvertonXY, and the women's team EvertonXX.

Currently, Women's football obviously doesn't have the quality, status and money that men's elite football has. However, if and when it ever reaches that elite level, it would be conceivable that some men who are not quite good enough to play at the men's elite level might claim status as women, in order to play at that elite level with its financial advantages. Such issues are relevant currently in sports such as athletics where there is a lot of money at the elite level.

In such cases, genetic and other testing of gender might be important (as in athletics), and the XY and XX naming suggested above could be useful.

I'm all for equality but this just seems 100% stupid and causes more problems?

How can they possibly share one name?

if I was to ring up the box office and ask when the Next Everton match is they would surely have to ask do you mean the mens or ladies team.

Same with news articles such as Everton defender out for 6 months? Which team?

Everton linked with striker. Which team?

Even if you were to google Everton you would have to select mens or ladies team news just to filter out what you were interested in.

Although a noble gesture it just creates avoidable problems in my view.

Paul H, the games you mention were mainly free tickets given to schools etc. BBC were going full on publicity about the high attendances over the weekend.

Jerome, if you want to keep up to date with the footballers formerly known as Everton Ladies then I suggest that the OS and the BBC will provide the news for which you are looking.

As for TW, I doubt that there is much appetite to discuss them but there is nothing to stop anybody penning an article about the team and, given the responses so far, there'll be a few of us open to discuss any thread.

With all due respect, Everton can't be called one of the elite clubs any longer - once upon a time, the England 'Lionesses' (if that term still applies) were made up almost entirely of Everton and Arsenal players (and the likes of the RS were not even in the top division) but that has been allowed to slide - the players moved quickly and easily as only female footballers can and Man City gobbled up most of the top talent as did, much to our gall, a newly promoted RS.

Everton clearly didn't see the side worth investing in, which is a shame as I agree with the points above that they are at the very least representing our great club to a wider audience. Call me a fairweather fan but it remains to be seen if they can do much in this WSL.

I don't see the issue.

If someone ( or the editorial team) want to report on the ladies team here - great - no one is obliged to read every article.

I often open an article - decide after a few lines that it's not holding my interest and then move on to another.

I may not wish to read about the ladies team, or many other subjects - but I do like to have the choice.

I've always been a little uncomfortable with the Ladies tag. It's a throwback to a previous age when only wealthy 'gentlemen' had the time and resources to play sport and proletarian upstarts who actually got paid were simply referred to as 'players'. In cricket and Rugby this persisted until comparatively modern times.

To refer to the male and female sides as simply Everton is a recipe for confusion. In an admission to this, the official Everton website has said it will add the tag Women, when appropriate, to avoid any confusion. Why not simply call the side Everton Women.

Will women's football ever become as popular as men's? I doubt it. It's a completely different game; slower and with little physical contact. Not better or worse; just different.

Once the free tickets and hype has died down the women's game will find it's own level.

Jerome, what are you talking about here: -
'But I do have doubts over the Stadium Project because of what I perceive as a lack of a overall plan'

Have you not seen the plans at all!!

Pete #42

Seen all the PR stuff , but no actual Financial plan with meanful figures in the context of a overall development plan for the Club.

Peter #39

Thank you for the update. As I said I am not that familiar with Women's football. Disappointed though that they where not financially supported by the aclub, but not surprised knowing the Clubs Management and planning capability , which hopefully is changing.

Anything that ToffeeWeb can do in my opinion would help.

Jerome, are you seriously expecting at this point (if at all) to be given the financial information!? Unless you are a shareholder I guess the club don't need to release the info

I don't really have any interest in Everton Women's football team to be honest. I mean I always look to see were we are in the table whenever it's on a screen somewhere. When the England team was promoted heavily over the summer, I was surprised to see I knew a lot of the England girls and the reason I knew them was they used to play for us, so clearly I took more notice than I thought I did. To be fair to Everton, we do push the Women's side heavily on the official site so there can be no complaints there.

As for the name change, if that's what was decided after consulting the team or the fans then fair enough. The only thing is that there seems to be a bit too much Political Correctness with things like this. I remember reading some article on how it's demeaning to call the female team "girls" and the male team "men". For me, that's a load of crap.

The female side will always be the girls to me, because the male team is never the "men". I might not refer to them as the "Everton boys" as a collective term, but I would call them the "Everton Lads". We also use Blue Boys all the time. I have never ever heard anyone refer to us as the Blue Men (kopite behaviour for me!).

So unless the girls concerned requested the change, did it really need to happen? Is it sexist to refer to them as girls? Not at all, for me, it's just a northern thing. But, who cares what I think, I'm only a lad.

Bill. (41), yes I know what you mean about different titles in various sports, I think in cricket up to the sixties there was an annual fixture ‘ Gentlemen versus The Players’ always brought a smile to my face even though it was about the different classes of English society,it really should have been called ‘ Amateurs v Professionals.

Today in horse racing it still abounds with Jockeys bowing and touching their heads to the owners etc.

I like woman’s football, it’s still a game of football and getting better and better, I believe Everton girls ( that’s my name for them, aright girl) are going to play some of their games at Walton Hall Park, right on my doorstep, so I’ll be going over to see them when they do.

Hi Dave [42],

You will no doubt recall that in cricket, the Professionals and Amateurs entered the field of play from different points, 'owz'at' for knowing your place?

Pete #45

There are some figures mentioned in the PR splash, which gives rise to more questions than answers. I suggest you read Paul the Esk s last article and you will get a better idea where I am coming from.

I'm the furthest thing from PC you'll ever find.

This is the right thing to do. One Club, one cohesive approach to footy from youth, women, and men's sides and perspectives.

Are women on an equal footing? No. That's not bias, that's fact. They do not have near the economic impact or revenue the men's game has. Nor, due to nature, are they as physically gifted.

Does that mean we shouldn't subsidize the women's team? No! We absolutely should. It's the right thing to do. Soccer shouldn't be about the almighty dollar, nor should Everton's approach to either the women's game or it's approach to the greater good. We give back continually through EITC. We should be supporting our women's team just as much.

There's a fine line between force-feeding "woman power" down society's throats, as I'd argue the entertainment industry is doing in no small measure currently. Ask my very liberal, geeky son, about what the PC culture has done to Star Wars, the Marvel Universe, the DC Universe, etc.

But society will figure it all out and find an equilibrium in the end. And on that journey of change, Everton should be leading the charge and supporting its women's team in name, and with economic support.

So sayeth I, your mileage may vary.

I'd prefer to be in a position of asking my Club to "reel it in" on being overly contemporary, than the opposite of asking them to stop being an Old Boy's Club and demanding they step up and assist the women's game.

You can choose whether or not to support the women's team, or even whether or not to watch them. But not supporting the Club's backing of the women's game, does indeed seem a bit backwards to me.

How can someone on the one hand, support the initiatives of EITC, and on the other not support the growth and "charitable contributions" our Club can make to the women's game of soccer?

Jamie, one of two 'wags' aside - not many are questioning whether or not we should support the growth of women's football but whether or not the changing of the name leads to unnecessary confusion.

Peter -

Understood. My comments are more directed at the (few) detractors.

Jamie @50: Good post. Removing any obstacles to progress of the women's game is important, as a particular case of removing obstacles to progress of anything that's positive.

Interesting points about the difference between such reasonableness and the force-feeding of 'woman power'. The latter is too often cringe-worthy, particularly to women who don't wish to be patronised, for example by an entertainment industry that makes a lot of money from pumping out mediocre and derivative chewing gum for the eyes. It's a neat way to make cheap money, just take an established hero, and replace him with a woman, rather than be truly creative and have artistic integrity by creating new 'heroines' that reflect positive female attributes.

I suppose the trick is to ignore all that nonsense and concentrate on the true positives and removal of ridiculous barriers.