You can try to find the updated link in the article archive.
Reader Comments (84)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 02/12/2019 at 07:02:59
Unfortunately you are also right that the Board is going to need time to sort out a replacement for Silva. They obviously have not foresaw or prepared for the likelihood of replacing Silva, They will have difficulty finding anyone who wants the job, bar a few who will take their money and be out the revolving door within a year.
Its obvious that Evertons problems are deep seated and need alot more than a change of Manager,
2 Posted 02/12/2019 at 07:27:37
Unfortunately instead of walking five yards before dying he will get to manage five games before killing this club and putting us in a relegation position we are not equipped to get out of.
Wake up Moshiri before you have to try and buy your way out of trouble in January.
4 Posted 02/12/2019 at 07:57:13
Our in-game management is pathetic.
Our decision making in the final third is pathetic.
Our weak mentality going into the latter stages of games is worse than even the year Walter Smith was fired.
Yes we can blame Silva for the team selection, the formation, the lack of personality from himself doesnt help, but once they cross the white line, dear me, talk about a bunch of schoolboys!
I cant believe we are relying on players that looked like they were done when Allardyce was leaving.
Holgate has never been good enough defensively and funnily enough that still hasnt changed.
Morgan Schneiderlin is somehow still earning a wage at Everton more than two years after offering zero.
We have not had a full back (left or right) that can defend properly since Tony Hibbert was here.
Dont even get me started on the centre forward position since the departure of Lukaku in 2017.
At 1-0 yesterday we had enough of that ball around the penalty box to make it 2-0 but Leicester get one chance, then its 1-1 and thats what happens when you have a quality striker that plays in areas that hurt teams.
Silva will get sacked but our board, Marcel Brands and the players, they have all done they bit in bucketloads to make sure we are in the bottom three for Christmas.
5 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:03:58
I wasn't enamoured by his appointment and in his time in charge, both tactics and team selections have failed to convince me otherwise.
However, he cannot be held responsible for the Leicester defeat. The team worked hard and contested every ball. So much so that Jamie Carragher compared Sigurrdson's tenacity to Peter Reid! For much of the match the game plan worked. Given his depleted squad in key areas, Silva deserves credit for that at least. He cannot be held responsible for the fact that sloppy passing and losing possession by Tom Davies, led to both Leicester goals. That is what cost us this game and has finally landed the killer punch on Silva's time as Everton manager.
6 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:08:12
But Tom Davies is a local youngster and yet is frankly embarrassing. Who could Silva have put in his place? All our midfielders are injured.
Tactically I thought Everton did OK yesterday (not great mind you), but if your players stupidly give the ball away to a set of really quick midfielders that Leicester have, it'll kill you in the end.
But as for the future, well it isn't working is it. The team has moved backward if anything and the Board has to decide what to do. If managerial change is needed, I do hope they will consider Brand's position as well as Silva's because the crop of players he brought in have not exactly covered themselves in glory. Only Richarlison is worth the money and SIlva brought him.
7 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:09:55
No surprise then that we now find ourselves in the relegation places, most mature supporters realised this when he was appointed, not only is Silva a pretty useless coach but he also is dogged by bad luck, a deadly combination.
I think he will be sacked eventually, but it maybe too late to salvage our premiership status. It depends entirely on who Moshiri and Brands appoint and I don't think many us of have any confidence that he will pick the right man, which is a tragedy for all our fantastic supporters who deserve so much better, that's where we our just now and there's not much hope left.
8 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:12:03
Holgate does not inspire confidence, he did his best to give away a penalty and did not cover himself in glory with the two goals.
Davis is mentioned too many times for the wrong reasons in the above report.
Siggy still offers to little to justify selection never mind being named captain.
On the plus side Sidibe showed he could be a plus if played in a more attacking role with less defensive duties and Kean showed in his cameo that he could offer something going forward.
Mina was a joke in the manner in which he fell to the ground as a result of the poke/jab to the chest and Charlie will never get out of the habit of falling to the ground as if he has been shot.
Silva is in the final days of his tenure, hopefully, we can be competitive on Wednesday, thus restricting any further loss in confidence which will vital going into the next four games. We are in a battle for survival and hopefully we will pick up sufficient points in the next 24 games to keep our current status. A hiding on Wednesday could see us in serious trouble going into the Burnley game on the 26th.
Whoever takes over as manger should enjoy the support of all true Everton supporters as he faces a major challenge.
9 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:13:51
The players, especially Davies, were knackered, mainly due to the ultra defensive set up with the extra running.
If we try that tactic on Wednesday we will get hammered.
We have to go either 433 or 4141
Again, Silva's substitutions and game management were highly questionable. Rather than keep the team and tweak it defensively he went for a more open game which ultimately cost us a well earned and much needed point.
As you mention we are lined up for a prolonged protracted relegation fight and these players, under this manager, and possibly anyone else, do not look to have the nous or bottle to be up for it.
10 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:15:06
Ralph #2 is right that we may need to buy some dogs of war in January, current squad seems too fragile for the relegation scrap.
11 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:23:10
A loss regardless of performance or hiding on Wednesday will still mean confidence is rock bottom, a loss is a loss.
We won away to Southampton but look at what turned up against Norwich?
The win at St Marys should have been the springboard for back to back wins.
The players are not good enough and I agree with you on regards to Holgate, I said it at the start of last season when we lost 3-1 to West Ham and Arnautovic simply owned him that day.
Hes miles too reckless in risky tackles in the box and has this habit of showing his arse to strikers instead of just standing them up.
Davies for me, had been playing ok recently but the last two games weve seen his limitations laid bare and his lack of speed.
Leicester have young lads in there that are quick and hard running players, Harvey Barnes, James Maddison then you look at other young lads in the league at Chelsea or Harry Wilson on loan at Bournemouth, compared to our players they look so much more energetic and faster both in mind and body.
You find out a lot about the squad when you get a couple of injuries, when Moyes teams years ago were down to the barebones we could throw the likes of Tim Cahill up front with Fellaini behind him.
Now we just look like we have nothing, the attack is so toothless and defensively it never looks likely to survive any pressure.
12 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:39:11
13 Posted 02/12/2019 at 08:48:58
Lets get some perspective here...
Holgate was part of a 3 man defence who was marking the most in-form experienced striker in the league at the moment. Hes been our best defender since he came into the team. Young centre back who struggled against Vardy - hardly that much of a crime.
Davies, at 21, was asked to hold a midfield together against a team who scored and breaks from midfield for fun. He, again, has been our best midfielder since he came back into the team.
DCL ploughs always up front in an ultra defensive formation, keeping defenders occupied and holding the ball up admirably. Hardly surprising he doesnt score enough in games like today.
Theres 8 other senior pros on the pitch, yet none of them take the stick that these 3 do.
Youll all be complaining next week when Keane is back in defence, Schneiderlin is back in midfield and Tosun is back up front, yet what more do you want???
14 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:01:09
Fans criticising Brands - which players he has signed have made our squad poorer? None.
We have a skeleton squad right now, mostly through injuries, and were unfortunate not to get a point.
I'm not saying Silva is the answer, in fact I've become fairly sure he is not, but I am saying that sacking him right now is absolutely not the answer. Anyone brought in would be knee jerk and temporary, a stop gap at very best offering us no more than at present, just a huge outlay and more disruption.
We need to get to January, we need a center half, a center mid, and possibly a center forward. We have plenty enough to be safe and to climb the ever so tight league with returning players and decent acquisitions.
And then in the summer we can evaluate and make a proper decision, long term, with Brands steering the ship, when suitable managers will be more receptive to a move, ie, Ten Haag.
I for one am glad Brands seems to thinking along these lines, and NOT making Watford-esque knee jerk reactions.
15 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:11:18
The board of just about any other PL club would have sacked Silva after the Burnley game on October 5th. Yesterday only proved that he is unlucky as well as incompetent.
17 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:28:37
1 it weakens his own position
he hasn't got a clue who to bring in at this time
18 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:30:05
Back then managers had an excuse as they had little or no money to rectify the problem, but our last 4 managers have been given ample money to spend. I think when Moshiri came in and said that money would not be the thing that stopped us competing at the top again. That led us fans believing that the injection of money would see us back competing for trophies. But as we have seen the money has been wasted by successive managers and DOFs. We are about to see us appoint our 5th manager in 4 years, how can this be anyway for a club to possibly progress.
I don't believe that Silva can turn things around, confidence after yesterdays last minute goal must be at an all time low. I think it would be very difficult for a manger who hasn't worked in this league to come in and fight a relegation battle. So as unpalatable as it is for some I think our options are very limited, we need someone to come in and hit the ground running. My choice would be Chris Wilder from Sheffield. But I think it may well be David Moyes, he knows the club inside out and the coaches that would be left would be Ferguson and Unsworth who both played under Moyes. I would only offer him a contract till the end of the season. But he would organise the team and thats exactly what we need right now.
19 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:31:24
Maybe you use it as an example but Ten Haag I dont want!
Dour Dutchmen I dont want, weve had one already.
The Dutch League is a million miles away from whats required in the Premier League.
20 Posted 02/12/2019 at 09:50:01
21 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:09:11
As it stands we have Wolves, Sheff Utd, Burnley, Palace, Bournemouth, West Ham, Newcastle, Villa and Brighton ALL ABOVE US IN THE LEAGUE.
We are an utter shambles of a club and we are again looking at changing a Manager. The spirited display yesterday is too little too late. Silva should have been sacked weeks ago.
22 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:10:29
Julian@15: if Brands follows your recommendations he will be sacked with Silva when we are relegated in May.
Brian@18; only Kenwright would be stupid enough to appoint Moyes. Brands would surely have to resign if that happened.
23 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:29:43
I thought we put in a real performance yesterday and were unlucky. We deserved the point, but when luck is against you - you're stuffed.
Why wasn't Chilwell booked for simulation? Is that retrospective rule that convicted Niasse still active? He should be punished surely? (And is Niasse still the only guy to have been done)?
Davies - one of our few regular midfielders who plays attacking forward balls - had two costly lapses which ended up in their goals. I'd still have him over Morgan or Delph any day.
Why didn't they put that kind of shift in against Norwich? Or every week? Too much money, too little pride (in the shirt or personal). Unacceptable.
With the games we have coming up I think Silva has to be kept on. To my mind, he has more chance than any new bloke.
The new guy would only be looking at a formidable fixture list and the probability of people / players losing faith in him before he can even get his feet under the table.
And if Silva goes on to get the results - perhaps it could be his Kendall moment of facing the sack and getting us to a League Cup final?
I can hope can't I?
24 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:32:41
I think that gut-wrenching disappointment makes our post-match comments particularly strident, even after a night's sleep. I thought we played well in the first half but I feel that we were done in the end by a combination of poor tactical substitutions (again) and some poor individual defensive work.
And then you get to Leicester train station to find a train with just two coaches!!! Cue mayhem and lots of police (tactically well-organised, all doing their individual jobs, and getting the result they wanted).
25 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:43:44
Defensively we are slow. Our full backs (wing backs yesterday) are primarily attacking players and defending does not seem to be their main function. Keane and Mina, I'll exclude Holgate, as he ought not to be there at all, would be fine with Distin or Kevin Ratcliffe alongside one of them, but they both lack pace and therefore defend too deep. Forwards like Vardy and Liverpool's attacking trio terrify them.
The forwards are all in the McFadden mould, they'll score four sensational goals a season, but week in, week out, they aren't going to put the ball in the net.
I cannot see us avoiding a long relegation scrap.
And more importantly, I cannot see a manager out there who could galvanise the current squad quickly. Howe's done a wonderful job with virtually no money at Bournemouth, but whether he could do an equally good job at Goodison is another matter, Dyches might get us organised, Wilder's style would fail miserably with our bunch of non-athletes and I don't know which top continental manager would risk his reputation for great pay at Goodison. I don't think Silva or Moyes is in any way the answer, in their cases I don't even know what the question is.
Because of the lack of other possibilities, I'd approach Howe and hope he could bring Ake and possibly Wilson with him, which might help with two of the problems identified above.
As Jim Bennings and Trevor peers have pointed out before, top managers aren't queueing up for the Everton job.
26 Posted 02/12/2019 at 10:55:09
I agree with those who question if another manager would have driven a better overall performance from the players who were available yesterday. Realistically we are not going be able to take a manager from another Premier League club in mid-season. Candidates from abroad are fraught with risk. Taking a punt at this stage could wreck us completely.
That leaves a very short list of unemployed managers who would be prepared to take the job at this stage. None of those would appear to be acceptable to the majority of the fans. Therein lies the dilemma for the Board. The managers best qualified to keep the team In the Premier League are the least acceptable to the fans. I believe therefore they will leave Silva in the job unless or until our position becomes really desperate.
As for the game itself, we repeated the mistake at Brighton of throwing men forward, losing possession and being caught by a counterattack in the 94th minute. A more pragmatic manager would have given clear instructions to the team to take the sting out of the game, aim for the corner flag, kill the game and take the point. It was a reminder of Roberto Martinez's final season with us when we conceded 97th-minute goals at Bournemouth and Chelsea.
27 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:08:37
It nearly came off, but then inevitable mistakes, same mistakes by the same players and the same old mistake in changing formation, and making subs.
The results say it all; yep, bad luck with injuries, but 50-odd games and this is where we are.
I don't want to say it, but Big Sam is the only one with the methods and skill-set to keep us in the Premier League. We ain't staying up with anyone else coming in within two weeks. Lose against Liverpool, Chelsea and what manager is going to turn things around quick?
Give it to Big Sam, bite the bullet, he'll have 18 games or so to win the relegation battle. Watford will get points under a new manager.
Anybody listening at the top? Eddie Howe in to sort this bunch out??? Well if he gets the job I hope he doesn't mind one or two seasons in the Championship cos it's a real possibility, everyone. I've been afflicted since 1963 and it's as bad as any situation I can remember.
28 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:18:20
As for Sigurdsson, he's unsuited to Premier League football like his partner in crime Sch - you know who. This is compounded by his prioritising being fit for Iceland's play-offs. Just two bad buys out of many. The pair of them left all the pressure on Davies yesterday.
As to who should manage Everton – there are at least 30 regular posters on TW who would be far better than Silva in terms of team selection and substitutions. And there are some who would be better at identifying transfer targets (like those who wanted us to get Maddison before he went to Leicester for less than half the cash blown on the Icelandic glacier).
Since the window of opportunity to save Everton has closed – straight after the Burnley fiasco – we can now only see out this car crash in slow motion. I am really looking forward to our Chairman blubbering to the cameras on the final day of the season. He's been preparing for this role for 20 years. Perhaps he'll offer us a million to bail us out when we're in League One – but only after the bankruptcy has gone through.
As for the here and now – I'd call on Unsworth to try and salvage some pride.
29 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:24:22
30 Posted 02/12/2019 at 11:49:42
Strikers were the difference again yesterday. Surprise, surprise.
31 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:21:41
Strikers are the difference, along with a lack of game management, lack of leadership and a manager who very rarely gets his subs right.
32 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:29:23
Your McEnroe quote resonates "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser."
Our team have become every other supporter's good-time Charlies. The 'fragile ones' who give everyone good games and of course the three points. Listening to the media and some other fans today, they are actually starting to feel sorry for us.
We need a manager who can build a team with some durability and fight. One that reconnects with what the fanbase wants. Aggression and intensity. Lots of movement and getting the ball forward quickly. Making sure you win a fair share of second balls and breakdowns.
In short, a team that can reconnect with and use Goodison Park and our great away support.
33 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:31:52
Head of player recruitment and sales, maybe. Manager is not his choice and it never will be.
34 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:38:01
Most teams know that, if they can get a one-goal lead over us, that will probably be enough for a win because (1) we don't have the character in the side to mount a comeback and/or (2) even if we did, Silva would make another set of comedy substitutions – just like yesterday.
When Liverpool take the lead on Wednesday, expect Klopp to make his subs by the middle of the 2nd half. Liverpool have a very busy December and he won't leave on players who could benefit from a breather.
35 Posted 02/12/2019 at 12:43:36
Dig deeper into why goals were subsequently conceded and you don't have to go that far down to realise that we did so because, without Gana Gueye, there is no extra man to read the game and provide the cover to make sure nothing serious then develops.
The sale of Gueye will turn out to be the greatest ever transfer mistake since that of Tommy Lawton. And I'm not having this excuse that the player wanted to go. That was not his choice to make.
36 Posted 02/12/2019 at 13:27:43
37 Posted 02/12/2019 at 13:42:08
38 Posted 02/12/2019 at 13:58:27
Rightly or wrongly the board gave him more time but astonishingly didnt seem to actually start to look at a plan B until very recently.
Silvas style simply isnt cut out for the premiership and after this stint I can see him going back the continent.
The premiership has made him a multi millionaire in just 3 years so he wont be dying in a ditch somewhere.
Cant really blame Silva though, blame lays with the board. Everton can offer £3-£4m salary which will be enough to attract almost any manager available and of course the chance to manager an established premiership side. However, given how dysfunctional the Everton set up seems to be behind the scenes, I wonder if well be able to get a decent manager or end up having to yet again try and get the next up and coming.
39 Posted 02/12/2019 at 14:13:23
"Brands doesn't want to sack him for two reasons.
1 it weakens his own position
he hasn't got a clue who to bring in at this time."
1. How does it weaken his own position? This one really has me perplexed.
2. How do you know he hasn't got a clue? I didn't know we were in the company of someone with a direct line to Brands. What else is he doing that you can tell us?
Ian @22 so Brands should resign if he doesn't find a replacement by the end of the week? Interesting statement, that. Clueless, unfounded, and laughably shortsighted, but interesting nonetheless.
40 Posted 02/12/2019 at 14:30:03
"...Calvert-Lewin but he waited too long to make up his mind what to do with it."
If there's ever an epitaph engraved on his headstone, surely it will be this.
41 Posted 02/12/2019 at 14:39:46
I agree with your assessment of Holgate, Davies and Calvert Lewin performances. They are playing in a poor team. Another young player that should be playing is Kean, but maybe a new Manager may provide more playing support for him, which he is not getting under Silva. i. e. when he is actually selected.
42 Posted 02/12/2019 at 14:57:36
Is there anything we can do about Jamie Carragher and his commentary on our matches? Once again his commentary was disgraceful his celebration and comments at the end were disgusting. Surely there must be something we can do with sky to complain without it coming across like sour grapes.
What can we do to complain in force? The guy is lucky to be in work anyway and acts in a completely unprofessional manner towards us.
If it was an ex Evertonian like Cahill celebrating on a Liverpool defeat there would be burning outrage.
43 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:08:23
44 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:12:21
45 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:13:58
Rob Halligan often posts something but I've not spotted anything from him.
46 Posted 02/12/2019 at 15:34:07
It was apathy after the game which is the saddest thing.
No one can even be bothered to moan anymore as far as I can see.
Others might think differently but I just see people walking into the stadiums now and then walking out with a shrug of the shoulders to say oh well I didnt expect anything different.
There is something rotten to the core at the club and has been for decades.
It doesnt matter who we bring in moshiri, Koeman, Walsh, elstone, Kenwright, brands, wyness, finch, Allardyce, Baxendale,silva etc its just the same garbage every year.
Weve got kids like DCL and Davies who are nowhere near good enough, mercenaries like Morgan and Theo who are after a big pay check and players who have come for big money like Keane and Sigurdson who you can see are trying their best but there just not up to the standard required.
I dont know what the answer is and I cant see anything changing as it hasnt improved for decades so I think we will be having the same discussions for years to come unfortunately.
47 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:01:08
48 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:13:06
Now a Toff (-ee) like you who only travels 1st class, I am sure they rolled out the Flying Scotsman and your own private coach to get you back to Merseyside, but did the 2nd and 3rd class hoi-polloi you left behind choking in your steam all get back OK?
Given the rain-soaked wait at Brighton station a few weeks back, the fan-base like the team are not enjoying much luck on the road this season.
49 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:27:06
50 Posted 02/12/2019 at 16:29:14
1.He had had a captain of the old-fashioned variety. To 'rally the troops' as it were. Sigurdsson is not a captain. 2. That the board he was entitled to rely on had provided him with a decent number 9, and a reliable centre half after Zouma left. 3. That he had had a whole bag full of more luck, even going back as far as his first game when Jagielka was ridiculously sent off against Wolves.
4. That he had had a group of players that would have the courage not to fold like a pack of cards after conceding a goal. 5. That VAR had never been introduced because it has served for 'nada' so far. 6 Did I mention luck? Well it deserves 2 points of its own because I have never seen a manager who has been granted so little of it by whatever universe dispatches it.
Yes he has made mistakes, who doesn't? Despite them all, there is still part of me that feels there is a decent coach in there. Time will tell.
51 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:01:53
Funny you should say that, Jay, as a first class train ticket was a treat for my birthday this month (cheques, or folding-money only, acceptable from all ToffeeWebbers - thanks in advance). The only part of the journey out and in without a first class coach was the first leg home - Leicester to Nuneaton! So I battled it out (and lost miserably) to the hoi-polloi (or Rob Halligans, as you would call them!).
52 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:36:57
53 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:44:28
54 Posted 02/12/2019 at 17:48:52
Brands has had more than enough time to replace Silva.
If Moshiri is continuing to believe in the fantasy that Silva is the right manager for EFC then Brands should consider his position as Director of Football as being untenable and resign.
That is neither clueless nor shortsighted but probably unfounded in view of the appalling way our club has been run for so many years.
55 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:08:01
If you don't know, then you're just complaining like everyone else about what hasn't been done and ignoring the fact that you don't have a single idea about what goes on behind-the-scenes. You just assume and assign blame.
The only thing we do agree on is that Brands should resign, but for different reasons. This is a toxic fanbase, fueled by a ridiculous sports media and clearly non-winnable situation for anyone to operate successfully in. I wouldn't want to try to please us either.
56 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:20:47
57 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:25:51
If, as yesterday, a linesman (I mean "assistant referee" but "lino" is a shorter) flags offside, the defending team will pretty automatically stop playing. We all know the football nostrum "play to the whistle", well a waved flag is just as much an indication that the play has been interrupted by the officials and that no further defence is required. The goalie may as well wander off and chat to the crowd because, if I am not mistaken, the ball is not in play.
It is one thing for a VAR decision to determine whether (for example) a player was or was not onside when the ball is put in the goal, or subsequently to the ball being put in the net, whether the scorer was offsiide.
But when a lino flags offside, this, rightly, MATERIALLY INFLUENCES the actions of the defending team.
In my view, the second Leicester goal should not have been awarded because the lino flagged offside while the game was in progress thus, potentially or actually, influencing the Everton players BEFORE the goal was scored. Indeed, Holgate raised his arm to appeal, the lino gave the offside and then the goals was scored.
The fact that the player was onside is immaterial. If you watch the video, Holgate clearly, and correctly thought that the offside had been given. He raised his arm to appeal for offside, and the lino gave offside. Holgate - who was by now between the Leicester player and the goal - therefore didn't exert himself to stop the shot BECAUSE HE DIDN'T NEED TO.
Everton should appeal against this decision, and if necessary the game should be replayed or at least the score should be retrospectively corrected. (Some chance)
58 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:32:46
The flag being raised isn't the same as a whistle being blown so the only thing that demonstrates is that our players don't know the difference.
59 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:38:19
60 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:46:37
61 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:46:54
62 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:50:06
A lino waving a flag is exactly the same as a referee blowing a whistle. It is an indication that an offence has been committed. Law 6 states that "An assistant referee (indicates) when. a player in an offside position may be penalised". No mention of whistles (or bells for that matter).
If the lino fails to flag, a goal is scored and VAR is invoked, that is fine. The defending team had no reason or right to stop playing.
But if a player shows he is aware of the lino, appeals to the lino (the appeal itself doesn't matter, what it shows is that the player was playing to the officials' instructions) and the lino gives an offside, that is a completely different situation.
If the referee were to blow up for a foul, a player hoofed the ball into the goal, and the ref decided to reverse his decision (say, a lino said it wasn't a foul) then the game would restart with a dropped ball. Not a goal.
Exactly the same thing should have happened in this case. I am not aware of linos' decisions being of themselves in any way inferior to those of the match referee when they are made, so a player has every right to rely on a clear and obvious signal from the match official who is specifically charged with enforcing the offside rule.
63 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:50:49
64 Posted 02/12/2019 at 18:59:06
No one knows how or why Brands joined the Board. Also presumably, I was under the impression Moshiri invited him, and he accepted. I suppose that's voluntary as why would you say no to your new boss? What does his legal duty have to do with anything if he's 1 of 4 voices w/ the billionaire as the ultimate DM (decision-maker)? If someone can point me to evidence that it's Brands decision and only Brands decision as to what happens re: our manager, I'd love to read it. Which was my point from the get-go, that a comment about how "he should resign" because "he's had long enough" is flat-out ridiculous. Long enough to do what, exactly?
John @60 that's a great point and one I forgot. You're 100% correct that they're also supposed to keep the flag down. My bad, thanks for correcting me/pointing that out.
Charles @62, John corrected me while you were typing (I assume), and I am wrong and recant my statement.
65 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:18:39
66 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:19:13
67 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:27:34
Law 9 (The ball in and out of play) is ambiguous stating that the ball is out of play when play has been stopped by a referee, but, as I noted above, there is no indication that the decisions of a lino are any less valid for play than those of the main ref.
The term "play to the whistle" has, as far as I can see no substance in the laws of football. Players are supposed to obey the officials, and I'm pretty confident that if someone put in a meaty tackle after an offside had been indicated, a yellow (or red) card and probably a handbags session would ensue - quite rightly. It's like a boxer deliberately hitting someone after the bell.
As far as I can see, the only ambiguity is around Law 9, and the intention of that law is upheld if the decision of the lino is of the same status (especially in the case of offside) as that of the main ref.
68 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:39:28
Ken @66 no problem. My general and I believe consistent thematic comments around Brands, Kean, Iwobi - the guys I constantly defend - is that they're being unfairly judged so early on in their tenures here. Yes, I get that there are so many things going (gone?) wrong, that even friendly fire creates casualties, but to this admittedly new(er) supporter, it seems to me that we'd latch on to the few positive hopes we have rather than damn them to hell with everyone else.
69 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:46:38
Law 6 (The other officials) states: "Assistant referees
They indicate when:
a player in an offside position may be penalised"
There is no reference to waiting until a move is completed, or anything else. I think my complaint is valid and that Everton should stir up some trouble because of it. At least it may stop some other team losing a match on a very dodgy piece of VAR evidence.
To paraphrase the brain dead commentators on most footie programs. If a player is "entitled" to fall over if touched (and ex-refs regularly say they are), then another player is surely more than "entitled" to think that play has stopped when an official indicates a foul has been committed. This isn't a case of "playing advantage", it's a case of Everton being stitched up by VAR, again.
70 Posted 02/12/2019 at 19:57:32
71 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:00:59
72 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:01:04
As it was us, in many peoples eyes it just confirmed how crap we are. It's a seductive narrative and many appear to have bought into it. However, it's not a done deal at the start of December and things can quickly change in football. It was only a few day's ago when Liverpool were hanging on at Anfield against Brighton who are one point and one place above us.
It's a shot to nothing across the park, just need to have the kicking boots on. wonder what Reidy and Waggy are up to on Wednesday!!
73 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:04:10
74 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:12:19
A player might get a serious injury by letting play carry-on, and a team might score a goal because the defence has stopped once they have saw an offside flag, and its definitely one of the reasons why people cant get to grips with VAR?
75 Posted 02/12/2019 at 20:16:35
Kelechi Iheanacho broke Evertons heart with his 90th-minute winner, but former Premier League referee Mark Clattenburg says the linesman didnt follow protocol for the goal. The Leicester forward was flagged for offside, but the ref allowed play to continue, and VAR confirmed he was onside afterwards, allowing the goal to stand. “It was right that Kelechi Iheanachos late winner was awarded but the assistant referee should have kept his flag down,” Clattenburg told Sportsmail. “He did not follow protocol and allow the attacking phase to continue. Referee Graham Scott, though, was right to allow play to continue and the goal to be scored before the VAR check — and once the striker was shown to be onside then the goal was awarded. “However, assistant referees risk causing controversy by not keeping their flags down. Had Evertons players stopped defending, having seen the flag, then it would have left a very sour taste, as the goal would still have been given.”
The Leicester forward was flagged for offside, but the ref allowed play to continue, and VAR confirmed he was onside afterwards, allowing the goal to stand.
“It was right that Kelechi Iheanachos late winner was awarded but the assistant referee should have kept his flag down,” Clattenburg told Sportsmail.
“He did not follow protocol and allow the attacking phase to continue. Referee Graham Scott, though, was right to allow play to continue and the goal to be scored before the VAR check — and once the striker was shown to be onside then the goal was awarded.
“However, assistant referees risk causing controversy by not keeping their flags down. Had Evertons players stopped defending, having seen the flag, then it would have left a very sour taste, as the goal would still have been given.”
76 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:28:24
The fact is, the officials fucked up, failed
to apply reasonable judgement, and cost Everton two points. So far
Everton have had at least three terrible VAR decisions and one which was correct.
I think Everton should protest just to cause maximum trouble.
77 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:38:47
Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is not certain whether the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, the assistant should delay indicating the offence until the phase of play has concluded.
Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is certain the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, then the assistant should indicate the offence immediately.
In both of these situations the referee should wait to blow the whistle until the immediate phase of play has ended.
Factual offside decisions will be based on the evidence provided by fully calibrated offside lines.
78 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:49:35
I know some players have clauses allowing their contractual release in the event them employing club is relegated, does it work the other way around?
Would it be so bad starting all over again with a smaller but talented squad, with a new manager and an entirely new coaching set up? Mr Moshiri would take a massive hit on losses on fees for the devalued " usual suspects" but there would also be huge savings on the wage bill if seven or eight players agreed to move on before their contracts are up.
Staying with Everton FCis not doing the likes of Bolasie, Tosun, Sandro or Walcott a great deal of good anyway?
79 Posted 02/12/2019 at 21:59:22
Do any TW posters who follow the U23s have view on Antony.
80 Posted 02/12/2019 at 22:00:25
Holgate, believing that offside had been given (because it had been) and that play was stopped was between the forward and the goal. Whether Holgate is the worlds finest defender or a total donkey he would have been wrong to try to tackle the forward believing that play had stopped for offside.
The fact is, the law is hopelessly written and has massive holes in it. Everton has been the victim of three of these- the Keane accidental foot treading, the clear handball, and the after the fact revision of a perfectly reasonable offside.
Presumably the next time an offside is given against an opposition player, an Everton defender will be perfectly at liberty to give a massive shoulder charge on the offside player (especially
If he is not looking or standing still) on the grounds that the decision may be changed. Same goes for any other fouls I suppose.
The outcome should have been a dropped ball in the Everton penalty area. As for Clattenberg, I regard his judgement as bent.
81 Posted 02/12/2019 at 22:09:04
82 Posted 02/12/2019 at 22:19:01
83 Posted 02/12/2019 at 22:25:04
PS I should have said Evans got one and Foulds the other.
84 Posted 02/12/2019 at 22:29:57
85 Posted 02/12/2019 at 23:09:29
As much as I think he is a useless twat as a striker coach, at least he will bollock them on the touchline if they show no passion, unlike Silva.
Make no mistake, if we keep that useless prick any longer, that team are sleepwalking into the Championship, the spineless bastards.
86 Posted 03/12/2019 at 09:55:21
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.