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Jim Bennings
1 Posted 12/01/2020 at 08:28:09
Let’s hope atonement 2 and 3 are completed against West Ham and Newcastle, two teams that will be tricky but if we are serious then we need to beat.

Frustrations with Everton over the years is that we win one week then switch off for the next two or three and lose any possible momentum.

Benjamin Dyke
2 Posted 12/01/2020 at 08:36:33
Great write up as always Lyndon. As you say we were a Murray whisker away from having a whole different feeling from this match. It's a miracle he missed that. Let's pray for more miracles on the road to atonement and salvation.
Rob Dolby
3 Posted 12/01/2020 at 08:47:55
Great write up. I didn't like the way we surrendered the last 20 mins as I felt that the game should have been put to bed.

A fantastic save from Pickford, great defending from Digne at the back post under pressure from Dunk and a howler from Murray gave us the points after a series of poor finishes from ourselves.

Sigurdsson played with a lot more discipline in the middle. He has obviously been told to hold his position and play it simple. They have a long way to go to atone for the worse performance in 40 years.

Christopher Timmins
4 Posted 12/01/2020 at 08:48:09
Its a start on the long road to redemption. We are in a better place today than we were when the final whistle blew at Anfield in early December.

Let us hope that the manager can improve the players currently at his disposal, formulate a method of playing that takes accounts of their abilities and identifies definite targets for the summer in the next 16 games.

Mal van Schaick
5 Posted 12/01/2020 at 08:55:12
Good appraisal. Bernard made the difference in atonement one. He was making forward runs, passing and moving, as highlighted on motd. We should of had a penalty when Walcott was pulled back in the area.

Brighton hit the bar and Murray should of scored late on. So, where we worked hard to grind out a result, it could of gone either way.

Richarlison, aside from his acting, is proving to be valuable to Everton with his skilful goals. Let’s hope his head isn’t turned and we can build a team around him.

The positive side is that are teams below us in the league who are struggling and we have fought well over the last few weeks to regain a safe league position. Now it’s down to the board and manager to provide a good recruiting strategy in the short term and long term.

Jim Bennings
6 Posted 12/01/2020 at 08:56:14
Yes on another day it could have finished all square and against a team with more end product than Brighton we would be talking about a draw now instead of a win.

Killing games off has long been a problem for Everton but it all comes down to the fact that we just don’t score enough goals.

Last season the two chief goal getters were Richardson and Sigurdsson, this season it’s Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin.

I don’t think we have anyone else in the squad with more than two goals?

Bernard 2, Sigurdsson 1, Iwobi 1, Davies 1, Walcott none, Delph none, Schneiderlin none, Gomes up until November none.

The defenders never score, nothing from our centre halves, fullbacks haven’t scored and we don’t have any super sub striker to poach goals.

It’s a big factor in why we can’t kill games off.

Joe McMahon
7 Posted 12/01/2020 at 09:29:13
The end of the season is going to be Hell with Liverpools summer silverware party dragging on for years. To give us some sort of dignity these Everton players need to give 110% all the time. We need a proper goalscoring striker asap.
Anthony Murphy
8 Posted 12/01/2020 at 09:39:12
Losing Tosun (ok, not a major loss granted) leaves us very light up front. Kean yet to score and although DCL has improved of late, he is still likely to be inconsistent whilst working on his game with a new manager. We very rarely put more than 2 past anyone and therefore hard to think of many games this season that have not been heart in mouth at times. If DCL gets injured, we are left with very little options there indeed. Maybe a loan for a striker looking to get back on track with the Euro’s on the horizon would be an option, but now that we have pulled away from the drop zone, Ancelotti may want to focus on drilling those he has rather than trying to bed in short term solutions?
Steve Little
9 Posted 12/01/2020 at 09:54:55
I do not believe the substitutions were intended to be defensive ones.

Walcott and Bermard rarely complete 90 minutes and so it was no surprise that they came off but we didn't have any fit similar players to replace them. The formation stayed the same, with Davies and Sidbe being pushed into the wide midfield roles.

It was either that or risk losing Walcott and Bernard to further injury.

Digne has also to protect his groin so he too came off. PErhaps Baines would have been more like for like, but Mina offered more strength and height.

A lot of people seem to be forgetting how many injuries we are having to deal with recently.

Stan Schofield
10 Posted 12/01/2020 at 10:04:38
I think people need to get a grip. The FA Cup defeat wasn't a humiliation. We lost because we didn't play well, particularly wasting chances, not because they were particularly good. If we'd played at our best and still been beaten by such oppostion, then that would have been humiliating. If we had played well, we'd probably have thrashed them. It was disappointing, because we lost a game, that was it.

Regarding other teams winning silverware, that's nothing to do with us. All that matters to us is us winning games, one game at a time, and eventually winning silverware. When we lose, we move onto the next game and try to win that. If folks get stick from supporters of opposing teams, then learn to give back as much as is given. It comes with practice, and they don't like it.

The mentality of the entire club including supporters needs to be less defeatest. We need to be tougher mentally, both on and off the pitch. There are clearly factors beyond our control that put hurdles in our way, such as clearly biased officiating and injuries, but we need to focus on those things that are within our control.

We now have a world class manager. Let's use that fact to change to a winning mentality.

Derek Knox
11 Posted 12/01/2020 at 10:09:38
Good write up Lyndon, and although we dominated for the majority of the game, VAR decisions and another disallowed goal going against us again, with the Brighton revival in the last minutes it could have been so different.

It would however have been a travesty, if Brighton has nicked a point at the end in lieu, of those dubious decisions. Like I said on the other thread, it was no Classic by any means but 3 points and a confidence booster, WAS the right outcome.

West ham will be interesting next week, for many reasons but mainly because Moyes is back ' home ' in charge there. They have proved to be a very Jekyll and Hyde side, let's hope the latter is the case at the London Stadium.

If we can somehow get some points (3) there, and then face an injury depleted Newcastle, the week after, we WILL be right in the mix at the right end of the Table. Not getting too carried away at this stage but there is no reason why my optimism can't become reality.

But there's always VAR and inconsistent refereeing to contend with too.

Trevor Powell
12 Posted 12/01/2020 at 10:17:56
OK Murray had a last gasp chnace but with some stronger refereeing, the Blues would have been well out of sight how many penalties should have been spotted?
Christy Ring
13 Posted 12/01/2020 at 10:23:30
Great piece again Lyndon, we should have had a comfortable win today, if the referee and VAR were doing there job properly. Walcott's decision was absolutely shocking, VAR referee's won't over rule the match official if he decides it's no penalty, why doesn't the ref go over to the side of the pitch, and watch the screen, like they do in other countries, and in rugby union?
Tony Everan
14 Posted 12/01/2020 at 10:53:40
west ham away
newcastle home
watford away
crystal palace home

Our next four games are all very winnable, we are a team on the up. Carlo and Duncan are turning things around there is a green shoot here and there. I am definitely looking up the table now.

We have better players, a better squad and a better manager than those four teams. We have some league momentum. I think these four matches are now a real opportunity for us to push on and challenge for a top 6 spot. There's 10 points for us from those 4 games.

A massive plus for the club is Richarlison and DC-L playing well up front as a partnership in the fluid 4-4-2. The formation and system benefits both of them and their influence. They are both a threat, both scoring important goals and a handful for all defences.

Both young, , both athletic with skill, both improving and we are witnessing the start of a great long term striking partnership. They will be unstoppable at 24, 25 years old. That partnership can be a bedrock for our future success and I am looking forward to watching it blossom.

It should be locked in and nurtured, because there will be big interest in Richie soon.

Jim Bennings
15 Posted 12/01/2020 at 10:58:26
Tony

Knowing us we’ll probably get 4 points from a possible 9.

You should know Everton better than to make bold predictions like that lol

Geoff Williams
16 Posted 12/01/2020 at 11:18:58
We are a very poor team but fortunately there are even worse teams than us. The defence will always look shaky and the attack toothless with the midfield we have.
Brian Harrison
17 Posted 12/01/2020 at 11:19:41
It was vital for all concerned that we got the win, and for 60 minutes I thought we played pretty well. And as many have commented and backed by the pundits on MOTD it was a penalty all day long on Walcott, again we always complain if players go down to easy yet when someone tries to stay on their feet they are penalised. I also think the VAR ref realized that if he gives the penalty the ref has to send the defender off as being the last man.

I have been critical of Bernard because with his talent he should be creating and scoring a lot more. But yesterday was his best performance in a long time, I also think Ancelotti playing him 15 yards in from the touchline helped him considerably. As this allowed him to play more centrally and made it easier for him to link up with DCL and Richarlison. I thought we were unlucky not to go into half time with a bigger lead, had the final pass been a little more accurate we could have gone in 2 or 3 up. And as we all know when you don't put sides away when your on top in usually comes back to bite you. Thankfully that didnt happen.

I thought that was Richarlisons best game since Silva left, he worked tirelessly and always looked a threat. Sigurdsson and Davies combined well in midfield and with every game Mason Holgate looks our best defender. I thought Keane had a decent game but he does still worry me at times. I think the Italian in Marco showed with 3 defenders coming on for 3 attackers, but it worked so no complaints. We are slowly starting to put the spectre of relegation behind us and can hopefully start looking up the table not down. As the weeks go bye Marco will be learning more about each individual player and he is yet to see Gomes, Gbamin or JJ Kenny, hopefully he may see a lot more of Gomes in the coming weeks as he returns to training next week.

Finally don't know if those watching the game on a streaming service picked up on the booing when Delph was introduced. I cant see what is to be gained by booing one of our own players, if that manager thinks he can do a job then back the managers decision. The last player I can remember being booed was Dennis Stevens on his debut, he was replacing the much loved Bobby Collins.

Jim Bennings
18 Posted 12/01/2020 at 11:20:12
Possible 12 rather than 9 that should read.
Rob Halligan
19 Posted 12/01/2020 at 11:49:36
Stan # 10..

"If folks get stick from supporters of opposing teams, then learn to give back as much as is given. It comes with practice, and they don't like it"

Well said Stan. As much as we all hate and dispise the RS, one thing we can never beat them in an argument is the number of trophies they have won. However, as you say, I can give it back threefold
by saying what a vile club it is, with horrible vile rats for supporters. That club does absolutely nothing for the local community / fans. They are more interested in raking the money in from all around the world, something which I have first hand knowledge of by the way, but that storys for another day.

Their stewards treat away fans like animals, when in fact the biggest shower of "animals" are on the other three sides of the ground. In fact, I'm being cruel to animals, because animals don't act the way those shitbags do.I

Feel free to add anything else we hate about that obnoxious club. Maybe it could be a thread on its own, but I doubt Lyndon or Michael would like that idea?

Dave Abrahams
20 Posted 12/01/2020 at 13:06:55
Yes Lyndon, let’s leave it at one game at a time for now, there was pressure on the players after the humiliation at Anfield and the players responded with a much better, and needed display for over an hour.

The last twenty minutes had most Blues in the ground looking anxiously at the clock, the squad is not a strong one and it showed with how the substitutes had to be used, with every one of them the defence became more unsettled and Brighton became the stronger team and the one more likely to score, thankfully, thanks to a good save from Pickford and a bad miss by Murray we survived, but it showed what sort of squad Ancelotti is working with, and there is buckets load of hard work to be done just to get Everton back on the right track.

The last few years have left the squad and club in a very poor condition.

John Raftery
21 Posted 12/01/2020 at 13:23:33
Brian (17) I agree with you about the negative impact of booing our own players. Aside from not helping our own team it also serves to encourage the opposition. I recall the crowd booing when Derek Temple’s name was announced before a home game against Leeds in 1967. This was less than 18 months after he had scored the FA Cup Final winner. We lost 0-1 to Leeds and Temple was on his way to Preston a short while later.
Jim Harrison
22 Posted 12/01/2020 at 13:29:18
A lot of what ifs again, Murray, the cross bar.

What about our what ifs? The post, 3 good saves at least by Ryan, 3 decent penalty shouts, one disallowed goal that probably stood last season!
Opposition sides will get chances. This time the goal keeper did what he is employed to do. I think he had the cross bar shot just about covered too.
Football is a game played by two teams. The entertainment isn’t just in the winning of the game

Jack Convery
23 Posted 12/01/2020 at 13:43:00
Professionals should never surrender and thats exact;y what happened at Mordor last week. Imagine the allies surrendering when things got tough in WW2, we would have a German or Italian manager now - wait a minute.
Dave Abrahams
24 Posted 12/01/2020 at 13:43:26
Jim (22), I think most people are talking about when Brighton had their chances, they came after the substitutions. You might want to reconsider ‘ he had the crossbar shot covered too’, Pickford was beaten all ends up by that shot.
Stan Schofield
25 Posted 12/01/2020 at 13:56:14
Rob@19: I've gradually learned to play it by actually giving them praise, but not quite the praise they would like. For example, pointing out that they're good, but that Man City are the outstanding elite side who play beautiful football, which they can never compete with because they've always been workmanlike. That our best teams, in the 60s, were better than anything they've ever done from a quality perspective, like the difference between them and City now. That they've never won the PL, and if they win it this season it's about bloody time given the massive amount of money spent over the last couple of decades. That they'd have to win the PL repeatedly in order to be considered in the modern era elite bracket of Utd, City and Chelsea. That the officiating is biased towards them. That they're bad losers and ungracious winners, with a win-at-all costs cheating attitude.

I don't say any of this unless they have a go first, and then ramp it up starting with a bit of praise. I started doing it this way after the Clive Thomas game in 76, because some of them were so unpleasant about the whole thing. They never really have any answers, and you know you've struck home when they start making insulting personal comments, from 'fuckin Bluenose' upwards. With enough practice, it becomes a game, as I'm sure you know!

We shouldn't have to do any of it, but I'm not Gandhi!

Rob Halligan
26 Posted 12/01/2020 at 13:58:16
Dave # 24. I think if the shot that hit the crossbar had been a few inches lower, then Pickford would have probably saved it. Obviously something we will never know, but having just watched the highlights on Everton TV, for me Pickford is well positioned when the shot comes in. He is about three yards off his goal line, and it would have taken one hell of a dip after flying past him have gone in. As I say, a few inches lower and I reckon Pickford would probably have touched the ball over the bar.
Jack Convery
27 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:02:06
This squad has to be the most unfit one in the EPL and has been for a number of seasons. EFC have a habit of running out of gas around the 70 minute mark and whoever is responsible for the fitness and conditioning of the players needs to up his / her game.

I know we have injuries all teams do and some more than us - Newcastle / Palace for instance but it was very noticeable that in the first half Brighton couldn't live with us but after 70 minutes it was a different game, apart from Richarlson who kept on going. We need a couple of box to box midfielders with stamina to burn and a forward to convert the chances we are making and not taking to ease the burden on the defence who creak like an old fence in a light breeze after said 70 minutes.

Yet despite this we managed another clean sheet at home - just - but a clean sheet is just that and long may it continue. Richarlsons control for his goal was a thing of beauty as was the finish and Bernard was a breath of fresh air. Davies ran his heart out as he always does and provided the legs Siggy needs, who on several occasions as usual never gave his partner the option of a pass because of his statuesque moments in midfield. Delph came on and I can't remember him doing anything of note, would have preferred Baines to replace Digne who is likely carrying an injury.

We won - good that's the least we can ask for and now for WHU and Moyes.

Jim Harrison
28 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:06:33
Dave 24

For me it really doesn’t make a difference when they had the chances. None went in. A win gets 3 points. They didn’t score this time. Near misses and good chances don’t count as goals.

Michael Williams
29 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:23:09
I agree with Stan #10: "The mentality of the entire club including supporters needs to be less defeatest."

I wrote this somewhere else, but as someone from the USA who only started supporting the club several years ago (PL neutral before that), I believe this group of supporters is the quickest to rip (boo) their own team and harshly judge their young players than just about any group I have ever seen in any sport. As a new Everton fan it's not my place guess why, it's just what I believe. I hope no one takes this personally.

Jamie Crowley
30 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:27:36
I've been holding back criticism on any level for 24 hours. Why? We won. And the poisonous cloud over Blue Fandom since losing to that B team has been noxious.

But. A few comments on individuals:

Theo Walcott reverted to type when the Brighton player hit the crossbar. He literally waltzed past the man and just stopped trying. Theo watched him shoot without a care in the world. He is part of the problem, and can't be considered any part of the solution. He loafs when he's not in the mood, and as you say over there, he couldn't finish a bag of chips. I'm beginning to almost detest the very likable fellow, such is my distain at his effort at times.

Gylfi Sigurdsson's heart is, and has always, been in the right place. I have never, ever seen a game he's played in where he hasn't given 100%. Not once. I do not think he's part of the future. But, I'll always forgive players any mistake if their attitude and effort is there.

Tom Davies is our midfield. Like him or hate him, we are oceans better with him in the lineup. I will never understand the criticism he receives. He plays the ball forward, he has tremendous vision, he never hides, he's a tough cookie, all of it. When he starts flagging around 75 minutes and misplaces a (usually forward) pass, take a breath, drink decaf, and hold back your venom. Without him, it's Morgan Schneiderlin. Give that a thought.

Carlo Ancelotti is, quite simply, the man. He oozes class, and for my eyes, he seems to be relishing this opportunity to take a team with ambition (his words) and mould them in his image and make them a powerhouse. That being said, I think a lot of people, myself included, need to warm up to the idea that he will, without apology or reservation, make substitutions around 70 minutes, to protect a lead. His thinking, if I were to guess, is he'd rather lose that lead now and again and leave with a single point, than go for the killer 2 goal lead, but play too open and leave with zero points. All the while the majority of the time actually closing out games and leaving with 3 full points. It's the Carlito Way. He's Italian, and some stereotypes aren't actually PC sins, they're there for a reason. He's going to shut up shop, and we might as well get used to it.

Jamie Crowley
31 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:35:21
Michael @ 29 -

I'll be the idiot American who takes your observation a step further.

Evertonians are the single most knowledgeable fan base on the planet. As such, they demand certain things, and can actually see flaws and holes in their team's game much more than any other fanbase on Earth.

But, I agree with you regarding the young players. I've never understood it, and have gone so far as to tell some on TW point blank, they'd eat their own young given the chance.

I'll never understand why Evertonians are so, so hard on the younger players and don't let them develop, especially the local boys. I make no apologies when I say that often times (not every time mind, but often) it disgusts me. It hurts the player, hurts the team, and causes a negative cloud to brew over every one.

I don't like it, never have, and never will. It's way over the top in most instances, and only has negative effects.

Sue me. That's my opinion.

There's some things about my wife I don't like. We've been married 23 years. Doesn't stop me from loving her. Same thing with the fans. They are, quite simply, the best in the world. No one comes close. But if I could change one thing, it'd be the way we treat our youngsters.

I liken Evertonians to New England / Philly fans, Michael. They are stupendous, but dear Lord they can be rough.

Derek Thomas
32 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:40:07
Jamie I agree Re. The Italian stereotypes. When he gets us playing well for 70mins, gets us 3, 4 up, then eases off, I'll live with it.

It brings in another stereotype 'the consolation goal' - them I can live with.

Ajay Gopal
33 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:50:42
Stan (10) - Take a bow, Sir, that is one of the most sensible posts I have read on TW recently. Let us not obsess about our neighbours - they are on a high now, but let us focus on Everton, and being the best Football Club in the world. We have a World Class manager, and with our patience and support, he will take us to a very good place.
Rob Halligan
34 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:59:08
Stan # 25, much more eloquently put than me. They're still a vile bunch of shitbags though.
Dave White
35 Posted 12/01/2020 at 14:59:21
Stan #10 very much agree. I felt the humiliation of the Anfield result too but, and I fully appreciate this is probably because i’m not a scouser, it hasn’t caused me the same outrage as many.

What I saw yesterday was a team struggling with confidence trying to atone. The last 20 detracted from what was a competent showing against a side who play decent football and in Dunk and Duffy have a fine defence.

My crappy stream meant that I missed the ‘penalty.’ Having seen it on MOTD I now realise how cast iron it was. As the MOTD pundits said the PL had a golden opportunity to reward honesty by reversing the referee’s decision. That they didn’t is so disappointing and gives further incentive for players to throw themselves to the floor after the slightest touch. The PL only had itself to blame.

And of course 1-0 after a few minutes would have changed the context of that match entirely. You never felt that Brighton would recover from 2-0 down. As it was happily the right result still came.

There were baby steps of improvement, belief and cohesion on display. Hopefully we can push on from here. Bernard’s best game in an Everton shirt. And a moment of total class from Richarlison. Did make me smile as there is a split second where Calvert-Lewin looked pissed off that Rich didn’t lay the ball off to him...until he saw the ball nestling in the back of the net!

Brent Stephens
36 Posted 12/01/2020 at 15:00:41
Rob #19 "Feel free to add anything else we hate about that obnoxious club".

One thing that really gets on my tit is that constant whistling when the opposition have the ball. This is not an English habit, so not surprising I suppose that they do it.

If somebody could knock all their fecking teeth out, that'd stop the whistling.

Andrew Ellams
37 Posted 12/01/2020 at 15:19:30
Brent, the complete lack of knowledge of anything to do with their club and it's history. I met one recently and told him about the time I had a pint with Alan Kennedy during his short spell at Chorley and this RS had never heard of him (the man who twice scored the winner in European Cup finals for them).
Paul Birmingham
38 Posted 12/01/2020 at 15:35:20
Well what if..we won the next 4 games, which are winnable?

In Carlo we trust, and hopefully with some luck we can avoid as many injuries as possible and push on.

We earned the luck yesterday, and whilst we didn’t get all the right decisions, we got a hard earned victory

Same as last season v Ginger Gollum, on Saturday.

Steavey Buckley
39 Posted 12/01/2020 at 15:40:26
Ancelotti's teams and substitutions so far have been spot on, which proves he is an astute manager, because of vast experience at the highest level. That does not mean the players chosen by Ancelotti are up to standard, quite a few are not. But what players are available have given Ancelotti 9 points from a possible 12. Yet, Everton fans criticised his substitutions yesterday, but the players on the pitch gave valuable 3 points at the end of the match. That's all a manager can ask from his players.
Andy Crooks
40 Posted 12/01/2020 at 15:44:18
Stan, @10. You have been a voice of reason and I respect your views. However, I think you are missing the point here.It WAS humiliating. Not because they were good but because our players gave up. They surrendered. Some of them hid. It was abject and I think you are wrong to play it down.
In fifty years of supporting our club that is the first time I have ever felt shame. Of course we move on. Let it be the day when the tide turned, but it was lamentable from the coach and every player.
Still, I think it is only upward from there. That, in my view, is as bad as it will ever get. I feel confident now and that, for me, was epitomized by a magnificent tackle that Gylfi made yesterday.
That tackle is the turning point.
Peter Roberts
41 Posted 12/01/2020 at 15:54:11
Andrew #37

This is why I split supporters of our loveable neighbours into two firm categories: 1) Reds and 2) Kopites.

Reds are the rarer, more tolerable breed, that actually know bits about the club and don't look down their noses at everyone. They tend to be the people you can have a decent discussion about football and banter.

Kopites are the plastic, never-been-to-Anfield, shameless creations who poison the club and the wider football community with their adoration of Saint Steve, King Kenny and of course, Ratbky, while denouncing similar acts from other perpetrators as "everything against football"

The latter are to be ignored and despised and, when they do win the title, the former are to be congratulated (through gritted teeth). I have a few friends in the former category for whom I'll be happy, the latter can all go forth and multiply.

Paul Tran
42 Posted 12/01/2020 at 16:04:33
Andy, I with Stan on this one. If you feel/felt humiliated, that's fine, it's your choice. We were awful last Sunday. I'm choosing to move on to the next game, the next game and so on. The coming months will tell us whether the players, manager and club make the changes we want.

There's no right or wrong here, we all feel what we want to feel.

Paul Smith
43 Posted 12/01/2020 at 16:05:25
Stan 25, Ajay 34 and Rob 35. Resentments are indeed like swallowing poison expecting someone else to die but this article if you can be bothered to read it might help us understand the deep seated animosity towards are more successful neighbours.

https://www.grandoldteam.com/2020/01/09/fault-lines/amp/?_

Mike Benjamin
44 Posted 12/01/2020 at 16:08:44
Steavey#39. The subs yesterday nearly lost us 2 points. Up until then we were on the front foot against a very poor side. Each of the substitutions resulted in us being pushed back a further 10 yards. Instead of the game being played in their half, it was instead in ours and with a huge gap between DCL and Richarlison and the midfield. The subs also made us very lob sided with 2 left sided players being replaced by predominantly right footed lads and Sidibe totally losing the plot, leaving Colman exposed.
Ajay Gopal
45 Posted 12/01/2020 at 16:19:18
Mike (44), as someone else pointed out above, all 3 substitutions had probably to do with the fact that the players substituted were coming back from injuries - Walcott, Bernard and Digne. The 3 who replaced them are not exactly models of fitness themselves - Delph, Coleman and Sidibe, which talks volumes about the options which were available to Ancelotti. We have Iwobi, Gbamin, Gomes, Beni - who are still out injured.
Derek Knox
46 Posted 12/01/2020 at 16:27:03
Peter @ 41, that's the last thing we want them to do " go forth and multiply " there's enough of the mutants as it is! :-)
Brent Stephens
47 Posted 12/01/2020 at 16:33:45
Andrew #37. That’s embarrassing. Talking to a red. Both of them. Seriously it’s both surprising and unsurprising he didn’t know the name.
Andrew Ellams
48 Posted 12/01/2020 at 17:27:39
Unfortunately Brent he's a colleague. I work in Central London so obviously I'm surrounded by them.
Rob Halligan
49 Posted 12/01/2020 at 17:28:19
Just to follow on from what Stan said @ # 25. Man city's first half performance at villa has been an absolute joy to watch. They currently lead 4-0 at half time, and if they want too, they could equal Leicesters 9-0 at Southampton.
Mike Benjamin
50 Posted 12/01/2020 at 17:34:34
Ajay#45. If Digne needed to come off then why not replace him with Baines. Kean for Walcott. We handed them the initiative.
Jamie Crowley
51 Posted 12/01/2020 at 17:40:37
Mike Benjamin -

For what it's worth, I agree with you 100% on the substitutions.

With Carlo now in charge, I'm in hands-straight-out-in-front-of-you, mindless-zombie-walk-forward mode for the foreseeable future.

Dude has how many trophies in the cabinet? I'm just going to roll with whatever he does for a long while.

Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 12/01/2020 at 17:58:27
I think City, would still be in the title race only for VAR, Rob, and can you remember the disgrace of a penalty Michael Oliver, gave against City a few years ago, penalising Jagielka for being the stronger player, in a 50/50 shoulder charge?

Everyone who watches football knows Oliver, will give a penalty, or a dangerous free-kick for the same type of offence in the next six weeks, hopefully then a clever player, will tell him to go over to the screen on the side of the pitch, because he will see it was exactly the same offence as the one he refused to give Everton a penalty for, because it does feel like some (fucking all) of these refs are playing God?

Peter Mills
53 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:09:53
Regarding the Walcott “penalty”. When it was being reviewed, I was looking at the players on the pitch thinking “I bet not one of them fancies taking this”.

Imagine, had it been awarded and missed, what that would have done to the atmosphere. It’s just possible we had a lucky escape.

Tony Abrahams
54 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:26:45
That’s one way of looking at it Peter! We need to fight this Martin Atkinson affect though, because this man has got a lot of power, and maybe a few of his peers, are trying to impress him, knowing that it won’t be long before he’s got the very top job.

Maybe I’m wrong, maybe I’m just a bit of a schizophrenic, regarding this man, but with our neighbours top of this VAR league, and us at the bottom, I’m not prepared to let them section me just yet!

Conor McCourt
55 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:33:06
After a hard-fought win, there was much criticism directed at Carlo Ancelotti for his in-game management yesterday. Is this fair?

The first change was mystifying and the only excuse is that Bernard normally fades and Carlo made a similar change against the Magpies which won back control of the midfield.

Clearly the pendulum swung at this point but credit must also be given to Graham Potter, who had already made two attacking subs, and took off the ineffective defensive midfielder, Stephens, and replaced him with Glenn Murray; this was as important as Bernard's removal.

The second sub was perfect as Sidibe was struggling defensively and perhaps should have happened earlier. The third sub was also understandable to counteract Murray's added height, which also helped see out the Newcastle win.

The problem I felt with yesterday – and the majority of the season – is too many of our players became 'leggy'. Come the last third of games like this, we have Davies, Sigurdsson, Bernard and Walcott who were struggling and Coleman and Delph normally do when in from the start. This means that our three managers this season have to make tactical changes based on fitness and less on form. Bernard may have been an example of a pre-emptive sub as the tank normally hits the red at this point...

Mike Benjamin
56 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:35:34
Jamie. I think the manager has to learn very quickly that he has not got the same level of player at the moment that he is use to.
Mike Gaynes
57 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:35:54
Brian #17 and others, it's important to emphasize that if Theo had been awarded the deserved penalty, the defender would NOT, repeat NOT, have been sent off as last man. A rules change in 2018 eliminated the double jeopardy of pen/red card for a last-man foul in the area. Red cards for last-man fouls are now given only outside the penalty area. If a pen is given, it's a yellow. So that excuse for the inexcusable failure to give the his pen doesn't fly either. It's simply a bad, bad decision.

Pete #53, that's a truly pessimistic way of looking at things... personally I've never seen Siggy shrink from a pen, he always wants the ball.

Jamie #31, you cannot possibly compare Everton fans to Philadelphia fans. Not even in the same universe. They don't just boo their own, they eat them. For you non-Yanks, Philadelphia Eagles fans once booed Santa Claus at a Christmas game and bombarded him with snowballs. Flyers fans used to throw flashlight batteries from the balcony. Phillies fans booed their own newly-acquired superstar, Bryce Harper, after he struck out in his first two at-bats ON OPENING DAY. A famous columnist once wrote that Philadelphians boo funerals.

Dave Abrahams
58 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:38:44
Jim (28), fair enough, they had their chances and missed them, so we got away with it this time, now tell me you were’nt worried and never looked at the clock in the last ten minutes.

Rob (26), well you’re the goalie and know the score, so I’ll have that off you.

Graham Hammond
59 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:39:50
Well said Tony Abrahams! Manchester City would still be in the title race if the officials were not hell-bent on handing the RS the title. I should be feeling happy today after the big three points we picked up yesterday but I am still seething, up to four Everton goals were denied (yesterday) and the RS would have got every last one of them decisions!
Mike Benjamin
60 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:42:56
Mike#57. That’s not quite true. The player will not be sent off if the commits a foul by attempting a tackle, however, the player can still be sent off if there is no attempt to get the ball. An example of the latter would pulling back an apposing player like yesterday with Walcott.
Kevin Dyer
61 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:43:03
Genuinely no clue why anyone from Liverpool would denigrate LFC fans like some are on here. It's pretty impossible to come from the city without having relatives and/or friends who support them. Do they get a free pass as the 1% who are OK or something, and the rest are vile, rats etc? It's fucking idiocy of the highest order. Some of you need to get a grip. Yeah, they have shithouse supports but guess what? We do to. I've met some of them.

As they are a team that actually wins stuff they naturally will have more fans that like to big themselves up at other's expense. No doubt the same applies to City now (not so much when I lived in Manchester in the 90s when they were garbage).

If Liverpool win the league it's because they have played the best over the season and good luck to them. It's unrealistic to hope they're never going to win the title again. I'd rather focus on us improving and actually competing for trophies again. I could care less about what LFC win.

Also can we bin the delusion that officials etc are anti-Everton? They blew the pen call on Walcott yesterday due to sheer incompetence, not any intrinsic bias.

Jim Bailey
62 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:48:03
Kevin@61, not quite sure how your comment passed the mods, but fully agree
Darren Hind
63 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:48:14
Atonement ?

Of course that would be a step in the right direction, but lets be honest here. It wont be enough.

I'm thinking more what-comes-around. Retribution. Vengeance. We have got to find a way of wiping the smirks off their infinitely punchable faces

Yeah we still have to keep winning in order to get the highest finish possible. But only by seeing them off on March 14 can we really say the players have redeemed themselves.

In the meantime. we can get behind the boys and hope they can build enough momentum to qualify for a European tour.

Mind you. I may be alone here, but I would trade Europa league qualification for humbling these arrogant fuckers. Then we can have go at CL qualification next year

Tony Abrahams
64 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:52:58
Each to their own Kevin, but whilst I agree there is a great deal of incompetence with regards to referees, let’s see if Michael Oliver doesn’t give a penalty soon, for exactly the same infringement as yesterday?

When he does, (honestly when) I bet you it is one of the bigger clubs who benefit from his decision, which surely means that sometimes it’s just a little bit more than incompetence?

(I know it hasn’t happened yet, but I will donate a £50 note to any charity you choose Kevin, if we get to March and this hasn’t happened with Oliver)

Darren Hind
65 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:53:27
Kevin @61.

You are right of course. We all have red family members. . . and I swear if we beat them at the Old Lady in March. Mine will be the first to get it.

Mike Gaynes
66 Posted 12/01/2020 at 18:53:43
Mike #60, sorry, sir, but that's incorrect. "Attempt to play the ball" is not relevant. The key is on a last-man foul is the location.

The only situation in which a player could be assessed a penalty and a red card is if he commits an egregious foul in the box that would get a red card anyway -- a dangerous tackle over the ball, an elbow in the face, etc. But no red card can be given for a last-man foul in the box.

I'm a ref of 40 years' experience.

Peter Mills
68 Posted 12/01/2020 at 19:26:42
Mike#57, it was actually my first tentative step at trying to take a positive view of all things Everton.

Bear with me, there is some unraveling to be done.

Jim Baker
69 Posted 12/01/2020 at 19:27:57
Kevin @ 61. Spot on mate, the bile and shite some display on here for all things rs is just pathetic and makes us no better than them, in fact worse as we know better. We certainly can't take the moral high ground.
Jamie Crowley
70 Posted 12/01/2020 at 19:29:13
Mike -

This is too funny.

Firstly, regarding Philly fans, Santa totally had it coming to him. It wasn't the real Santa, it was a fraud, and the Philly fans were totally justified pelting the fuck out of him.

I'd expect no less of Everton fans. Smell a fraud, expose him. Ask Morgan Schneiderlin how that works.

And I disagree further. Everton fans, for me, are every bit as tough as Philly fans. They are quick to turn, quick to love, and when you get on their bad side, they're wicked.

And for the record, I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever.

They are, definably for me, a perfect meld of New England and Philly fans. Somewhere between those two, lies Everton, in the footballing comparison game.

Throw in a dash of Steelers for raw loyalty, and you've hit the nail on the head.

Go cheer for Iran, I'll be pulling for the Pack. 😂 For the first time in the history of TW, Mike Gaynes, you're wrong friend.

I love ya.

Jamie

Steavey Buckley
71 Posted 12/01/2020 at 19:43:28
Mike #44. When Ancelotti made his 3 substitutions, Brighton were in the ascendancy as Walcott and Bernard were tiring. Also, with Glenn Murray they had added height. So when Mina came on he could cancel out Brighton's added attacking height with Holgate preferred to Deigne as further height insurance against Brighton's much taller defenders making regular forages into the Everton area. But should not forget, Digne was responsible for that o.g. that gave Brighton their 3:2 win at their place, while Ancelotti kept 2 upfront to prevent the ball coming back again which usually happens when there is 1 upfront. 3 very good substitutions at the right time.
Alan McGuffog
72 Posted 12/01/2020 at 19:54:14
Excellent Kevin. Let them enjoy their success. They deserve it, they are bloody good at footy. Let's start living up to the words of the song eh and stop obsessing about them.
Welcomed my first grandson into the world a few months ago. Destined to follow the left hand path I fear. But I ain't gonna fall out with him.
Just let us get our own house in order.
Paul Kelly
73 Posted 12/01/2020 at 20:27:51
Kevin Dyer, you speak a lot of sense (but your last paragraph) and I don't think there is a conspiracy against us, but, that decision for the "penalty" yesterday, do you reckon it would be given to the RS? I'd go as far to say "yes" it would of, With out a doubt!!!!

If you look back over the years there has been many wrong decisions against us, the ones against the RS stand out.

Call it confirmation bias but the crash test dummy that is Collina came out of retirement for one game, (if reports are correct) and disallowed a legitimate goal against us (to fuck us over) and then went back to retirement once again. Do you not find that strange?

The Clattenburg derby? The c**t should be lynched, even now.

The Poll derby after the RS keeper hit the ball at Hutchinson's back, then blew his whistle after the ball crossed the line?

Clive Thomas?

The year Palace came back from 3 down, I actually stated that I'd never bother with footy again due to the refereeing decisions that those red c**ts got.

There was a time that the 'buck toothed dobbin diving play acting cheating Mirallas injuring dirty twat ' named Suarez got away with everything, play acting, dirty challenges, and nothing was done, racial abuse too. Did the media or anyone kick up a fuss, did they fuck, and they never will.

Conspiracy? Who knows? But favouritism for are neighbours, undoubted!!!!

Phil Bellis
74 Posted 12/01/2020 at 20:44:46
Kevin.. No problem with local Reds who know who their manager was prior to Shanks, just can't stand kopites who have no idea of their history and/or come from Kettering, Stavanger, Basildon
Eric Paul
76 Posted 12/01/2020 at 21:13:24
Kevin @61
They are all fuckin weasels who hate us because of what we are and what they aren’t. Don’t be fooled by them, when they are together in their covens they hate us that is why they arranged relegation parties and carried a blue coffin around the G park. There is a reason why the play in old nicks colours.
Peter Neilson
77 Posted 12/01/2020 at 21:15:28
(70) “Go cheer for Iran” insults? Save it for a different site.
Stan Schofield
78 Posted 12/01/2020 at 22:02:55
Kevin@61: For many folks, especially those who live in Liverpool, there is a practical issue of encountering habitual stick that goes way beyond 'normal banter' and can get very tiresome. Some folks simply endure it, some hide from it, but others prefer to deal with it. And it can be dealt with very effectively without making any personal comments whatsoever. Indeed, in response to stick, focusing only on substance and not making any personal criticism can be very powerful and can reduce or eliminate the culprits repeating their irritating actions.

As I intimated @25, using praise to recognise that they are indeed a good team is a powerful starting response, on the basis of which they can easily be made to realise that they're not as good as they think they are. It's a lesson in humility for some of them. It's one thing having genuine banter, but quite another to be faced with unpleasantness. And nipping it in the bud substantially, without personal attack, is a very sensible approach.

Don Alexander
79 Posted 12/01/2020 at 22:19:03
The fact is that since the 60's Liverpool have made us, and every one else in the UK re Europe, their Espanyol compared to their Barca.

It's very. very depressing and, aged 65, I now expect to die before it gets any better.

Looking on the bright side though, at least Kenwright has trousered £10's of millions as we forever decline.

Mike Gaynes
80 Posted 12/01/2020 at 22:26:15
Peter #77, thanks for the good instinct, but Jamie #70 is innocent. In an earlier post about the NFL playoffs I teased him by telling him that I'd root for Iran against his beloved Packers, thus the genesis of his comment.

Besides, Jamie is a Yank, a Bostonian-turned-Floridian and a Republican in addition to being a Cheesehead (Packer backer), so we have to make all kinds of allowances for him.

Love you too, Jamie my man.

Jamie Crowley
81 Posted 12/01/2020 at 22:33:13
Peter -

As Mike says, that was a very funny comment he made in jest on the Live Forum yesterday.

There’s nothing clever or nefarious behind it.

But I do appreciate your moderator instincts.

Peter Neilson
82 Posted 12/01/2020 at 22:33:34
Ok Mike I’m sorry I put my size 10s in and thanks for the explanation. Cheers to you and Jamie.
Billy Roberts
83 Posted 12/01/2020 at 22:47:58
Oh Kevin @61 Stop being so fuckin sensible eh? Its footy it's a rivalry that's based on the colour of our kits and no more.
Thank our lucky stars it's not based on religion, race or politics.
It's all silly pretend hatred, join in or don't it's up to you but it's all a pantomime and we as the audience have a role to play,
That louder we boo, hiss or scream the better the performance.
Graham Hammond
84 Posted 12/01/2020 at 23:49:18
Paul Kelly at 73, well said, the list is endless! I do wish the club would have the balls to challenge all the injustices that come our way, we cannot expect Everton players to fight on the pitch when off it the club simply roll over and accept all that comes our way. Things need to change.
John Boon
85 Posted 12/01/2020 at 00:05:11
What a shame. I read a really good report about EVERTON on an EVERTON site and read sensible responses to how individual EVERTONIANS saw their game. That is what postings are supposed to be about.
Unfortunately as the posts gathered steam many deteriorated by bringing up about liverpool. They were totally irrelevant to Lyndon's post. I sincerely do not give a hoot about what they win and manage to eliminate them from my mind. We lost to them in the cup. We are not in the next round. The Brighton game was one more Premier game. I supported EVERTON when we were a much stronger team than them. They were in the second division and were also second rate
.I fully accept that times have changed but I haven't. I am an EVERTONIAN and I just don't care what they win or if they lose. I just don't think they need to be mentioned on an EVERTON site. Why give them any space?
Derek Thomas
86 Posted 13/01/2020 at 03:26:35
Kevin @ 68; as somebody (many variations) said ”Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence."

This happens all the time, you only have to look at the world about you to see its chock full of mostly dickheads (present company excepted) and they Never seem to take a day off.

Anyway - Atonement; Its going to take more than one barely average 1-0 win.
Full atonement will not come until we hand them the sort of thrashings they've just handed us in Dec. and Jan. On a regular basis.

Not many of the present squad will present to mete out that revenge...I fear it will indeed be seved cold.

I can wait...but not indefinitely.

Mike Gaynes
87 Posted 13/01/2020 at 05:03:38
Derek:

"I can wait...but not indefinitely."

What other options do you have?

Paul Ward
88 Posted 13/01/2020 at 06:07:26
Paul Smith #43. Thanks for the link to one of the most interesting articles on this subject.
Mike Benjamin
89 Posted 13/01/2020 at 09:17:54
Steavey#71. I sit in the Upper Bullens near the half way time and so could see exactly what happened after the subs. We may have had 2 up front but the gap between them and the midfield was huge. Davies, (who incidentally looked more knackered than Bernard) who had previously been the link was stuck on the left. Another consequence was that Pickford started to just launch the ball upfield with most going straight to their keeper. All I am saying is that we relinquished control of the game and very nearly tossed it away against a very poor team.
Derek Thomas
90 Posted 13/01/2020 at 09:33:28
Mike Gaynes; die - the ultimate option.

Edit; or just take it one game at a time...until I run out of time.

Tony Abrahams
91 Posted 13/01/2020 at 12:16:16
Just watched ref watch on sky (honest) and what is so obvious is the way the ex-ref Dermot Gallagher, just pulls rank on loads of bad decisions. Anyone who was at the game saw the ref, run towards DCL, ready to give him a yellow card for diving earlier in the second half, and I bet you this is why the ref got out his card? If not and it was for a “deliberate hand-ball”, this must have been told to the match referee by Michael Oliver, who took about 5 seconds to determine it was deliberate, even though the head on view shows DCL trying to get his shoulder onto the ball.

We are all getting hood-winked by VAR, because it’s still professional referees making these decisions. Decisions that can only be described as very inconsistent on a weekly basis, with refs being allowed to pull rank, whilst “hiding” inside a studio. It stinks.

I wish I had time to watch this programme for the next six weeks, such is my paranoia, on how these people often change their minds on the same decision, depending on the player, and the team they represent.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

92 Posted 13/01/2020 at 15:29:39
Stan @ 10.

"I think people need to get a grip. The FA Cup defeat wasn't a humiliation...It was disappointing because we lost a game, that was it."

Stan, I'm not bipolar about Everton's results or performances. I'm not given to hysteria and hyperbole in reaction to a win or a loss. I've become almost totally inured to our appalling record against t'other lot in the last 2-3-4 decades. I've got a pretty decent grip on life, not just football.

But the loss in the FA Cup a week ago really hit me hard. I have never, but never, felt such despair or despondency after a defeat in any Everton game in more than half a century of following the team. NEVER.

There was a golden opportunity to end to a degree the suffering we have endured at 'their' hands for so long. And the players totally, but totally, bottled it.

I truly cannot recall an Everton team being so totally abject, pathetic and submissive as they were in that appalling second half surrender.

That is not being reactionary, extreme or hyperbolic. That is what happened.

It hurt. Badly. It genuinely plunged me into despair for 3-4 days.

The importance of the match (progress to the next round of the cup, our one remaining chance of landing silverware this season). The venue. The opposition. The history. The whole context of the game.

It MATTERED!

Or at least, it mattered to the supporters. To the players, it didn't appear to matter at all. I side with those - some very seasoned and level-headed supporters - who described it as quite simply the worst defeat in our history.

Now you and others may point out any number of critical defeats that cost us trophies and even relegation. The shame of numerous cupsets against minnows.

But for me personally - and quite a few others, evidently - EMOTIONALLY, the defeat against them last week was the worst that I can recall by how it impacted on me and my well-being.

In conclusion, I will refer to your own conclusion which states:

"The mentality of the entire club including supporters needs to be less defeatest. We need to be tougher mentally, both on and off the pitch."

I have that Stan. I want my team to be WINNERS!

So why open your post by berating fellow supporters for expressing the hurt that they felt in the wake of the cup loss, then close by saying all need to be 'less defeatist?'

It strikes me those that feel the hurt more are doing just that - wanting, believing, we CAN win at place like Analfield.

YOU'RE the one being stoical and accepting of the defeat and performance. Not those you berate.

Dave Abrahams
93 Posted 13/01/2020 at 15:36:51
Jay (92), Jay, agree with every letter of every word you wrote in that post 100%. I left my Sunday dinner, to eat after the game, couldn’t eat a teaspoon full after that pathetic humiliation. Will never forget it either.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

94 Posted 13/01/2020 at 16:06:15
I was the same Dave.

For me here in Brazil the game KO about 12.30pm.

The missus knows better than to distract me in any way when the game is on, but she knew something was amiss as my expletive-filled yelling and thumping of the table increasingly became subdued and turned into numbed silence long before the final whistle went.

We were due to go to the in-laws for lunch. She went. I excused myself. 'I knew you wouldn't want to go after that,' she said.

The phone had already started 'pinging' with gloating messages when it rang. I checked the number. Mum-in-law calling. Didn't answer. Just turned everything off.

Three hours later the missus returned home. No telly. No computer. No cell phone. Nothing turned on. Just me lying on the sofa, not even sleeping, just staring blankly at the ceiling.

She came back with a tupperware offering of the lunch. I didn't touch that or anything else all evening, only eating again the following morning.

'You've got to eat', she pleaded.

How could I explain what my belly and head was full of whilst my heart and soul were so barren?

For the next 3-4 days I took refuge in the excellent test match between SA and England, admiring the gutsy performances of the likes of Anderson, Sibley and Stokes in getting England over the line. I avoided all things Everton and TW for 3-4 days before finally emerging from my torpor.

It MATTERED, Dave. It mattered big time.

As Lyndon's title suggests, there is still a lot to atone for I fancy in a good number of Evertonians hearts and minds.

Tony Abrahams
95 Posted 13/01/2020 at 16:09:36
If I would have knew that Dave, I would have been round to your’s on Monday for some fry up!

Dave Abrahams
96 Posted 13/01/2020 at 16:43:43
Tony(95), yes I could stomach the fry up, enjoyed it for my dinner on Monday.

But back to Jay, I know exactly how you felt, facing the Red fans wasn’t bad at all, well some of them, my own mates never rubbed it in on Monday night, noticed a few smirks around town, from the Sky reds, they don’t matter to me anyway and they know it. In church yesterday, yes church!!, one smug Red, goes when his son gets him a ‘freebie’ went out of his way to let on to me, sorry for what I thought Jesus.

Really and truly though it was the players who represented us last Sunday in such a pathetic way that my anger was saved for, and it is still there,Saturday got us three more valuable points added to our total, nothing came off the bill they owe us for last week.

Stan Schofield
97 Posted 13/01/2020 at 17:56:05
Jay@92: I'm saying get a grip in relation to folks saying that the defeat was humiliating. The term humiliating is well over the top given that we shot ourselves in the foot as usual. It wasn't quality opposition, it was us with our weak minded approach, and that needs to stop. I fully know that any derby game is different from others, but at the same time there are limits to the specific importance of them. The term humiliating is putting too much focus on that particular opponent, and it looks to be to the detriment of our results against that opponent. The psychology of handling that opponent surely needs to change, and that in turn requires a general hardening of mental fortitude.

Last season at Anfield, there was a last-second blunder that led to defeat. Our goalkeeper implied that it reflected habitual bad luck against that opponent, when it actually reflected a cock-up by him. A better mental approach requires recognising things as they are and dealing with them, learning from them where necessary, and moving onto the next game. It requires keeping calm and carrying on, focusing energy where most useful rather than wasting it on hand-wringing.

Brian Williams
98 Posted 13/01/2020 at 18:01:49
Stan, YOU may not have felt it was a humiliating defeat, lots of other Evertonians DID.
Stan Schofield
99 Posted 13/01/2020 at 18:09:17
Brian, yes, I know that, and the purpose of my posting is to argue that maybe my fellow Evertonians should not feel that way, because it puts too much focus on that particular opponent, which ultimately is fuel to them by us undermining ourselves. Surely we should aim to focus on US only.
Peter Mills
100 Posted 13/01/2020 at 18:16:05
Jay and Dave, I’m with you all the way. But we have to look forward now. We have to win as many games as we can this season, including the home derby.

I suspect the impact of that defeat will have been felt by Carlo Ancelotti far more than it would have hit some of our previous managers. We now have a very knowledgable manager, a proper football man, at the helm. He is not a magician, but I have a lot of faith in him if he is left alone to lead the club.

Brian Williams
101 Posted 13/01/2020 at 18:21:03
Stan. Beginning to see where you're coming from now mate and I think I know how you may feel towards "them."
Sometimes it's difficult to "play down" the significance of a certain loss though and our first team losing to their third team is as low as most of us can remember.
I agree though we have to put it behind us, improve, and plan to beat them at Goodison in the not too distant future.
Stan Schofield
102 Posted 13/01/2020 at 18:25:04
Brian, if I had to put in a nutshell, it's a case of "Fuck them, they're just another opponent".
Brian Williams
103 Posted 13/01/2020 at 18:36:58
I get that, Stan, mate, fully understand now. Don't give them any sort of "special" status because to us they're not special.
Darren Hind
104 Posted 13/01/2020 at 18:53:53
"You've got to eat she pleaded"

"How could I explain my belly and head was full of whilst my heart and soul were so barren"

I think we were all angry after last Sundays second half no-show most of us unforgiving. . but post 94 sounds like Am Dram night at the women's institute

I wonder if he was wearing smoking jacket and cravat ?

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

105 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:02:43
Stan, you choose to berate supporters for describing the defeat as 'humiliating'. That Evertonians place too much importance on fixtures against 'that' opposition.

It was also abject, pathetic, shameful, disgraceful, cringeworthy, and a few more adjectives besides. But I think it's you who is misunderstanding the sentiment of many and in doing so Stan, you aim at the wrong target.

Of course 'that' opponent at 'that' venue is - and should always be - an important one in the Everton calender. That only added to the hurt and (the word you contest) 'humiliation' of the loss.

How can that be disputed?

But it is my belief that what outraged so many much, much more was the PERFORMANCE. Or rather, non-performance.

I'm not given to calling players cowards, but the vast bulk of them that day - particularly in the second half - showed themselves to be lily-livered, meek, passive, submissive.

There was not a single one among them who stood up to rally the team and say: 'Enough! Let's get to grips with this and twat 'em!'

And the overriding concern I and I'm sure others felt as the train crash unfolded before our very eyes was:

'If they can't get up for a Mersey Derby at Analfield in a winner-take-all-cup tie against a team largely made up of inexperienced adolescents, then when can they?'

You could have randomly picked 11 lads from the 8,000 Blues who filled the Anfield Road end that day who would have played with more heart, pride and commitment to the shirt than the disgraceful rabble who did take the field last Sunday evening.

The players humiliated themselves and by extension the club and the supporters who had to bear the brunt of...well, it doesn't even take the form of scorn anymore. It's more one of pity, which is even more condescending.

It wasn't and isn't the supporters being defeatist Stan as you label them.

It was the players.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

106 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:05:44
Wrong climate, Darren.

Tee-shirt, shorts and flip-flops, all day, every day.

Steve Ferns
107 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:26:09
The thing is we need to concentrate on the rest of the season. It is just 4 points to 6th. We hoped for 6th at the start of the season. We're still in with a good chance, we just didn't realise so many others would be too. If we remain angry at the players, this will not help. Best thing to do is to let them get on with it, like we did in the Brighton game. If they keep winning, then the anger can dissipate, although That Lot, would never let us forget the result. If we don't keep winning, then each loss will raise the anger levels, which is fine unless we tumble down to the relegation places.
Darren Hind
108 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:31:29
We need to settle the score Steve. Pure and simple

Klopp wont play second string players at the old lady. especially if they can win the league that day.

The only answer to "you couldnt beat our third team" is "Yes but we beat your best team"

As the Yanks say. "Dont get mad, get even"

Steve Ferns
109 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:35:54
Oh definitely Darren. We need to turn the pressure on them at Goodison. They are set to win the league at Goodison. If so, we can use that pressure to knock them off their game. The atmosphere from last season can play a part too.
Brent Stephens
110 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:37:23
Two goals by Simms in 2 minutes. U23s
Steve Ferns
111 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:39:01
Monday Night Football, eh Brent. Forgot they were playing! I'll have a scramble for a link. Are you there?
Brent Stephens
112 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:41:23
Yes steve
Brent Stephens
113 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:42:31
Arsenal scored first. Now we’re 2-1 up.
Brent Stephens
114 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:44:22
Con Ouzi just given them a soft goal.
Steve Ferns
115 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:46:32
Nothing on the Arsenal site, and nothing elsewhere. How are we playing Brent?

Looks like a back 3 with Gibson, Con Ouzi, and Feeney. John and Foulds at Wing Backs. Iversen, Baningime, and Markelo in the middle. Evans off Simms up top.

And Joao Virginia back in goal. How's he playing?

Is that right?

John P McFarlane
116 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:50:12
Steve #109 How are Liverpool set to win the title at Goodison? My maths isn't great but seeing as they will have to be 25 points clear of the other potential contenders at the end of that game at Goodison, because there will still be 24 points to be won and lost after the derby game. It might prove to be the case that it happens that way, but I'll still be surprised if it does.
Brian Williams
117 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:52:41
John#116.
If they win every game up to the Goodison derby they win the title by beating us on that day.
Steve Ferns
118 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:54:09
Not sure, John, some kopite was telling them that's how things are set. Lot of games between now and then, lots of moving parts, no idea how they can be set, even if they do win all their games, who knows what City will do?
Brent Stephens
119 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:56:05
Steve more of 5-4-1 with Evans wide.
Brian Williams
120 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:56:48
Steve, if they win all their games including the derby it doesn't matter what City do mate.
John P McFarlane
121 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:58:32
Exactly Steve and they don't play City until after the Derby, so although it's possible and likely wishful thinking on their part, it's not a foregone conclusion that it will happen, but, of course it might pan out that way.
Steve Ferns
122 Posted 13/01/2020 at 19:59:56
Cheers Brent.

Yes it does Brian. If City lose a few, they can win the league earlier, Brian. The thing about winning the title at Goodison is based on them both winning every game up until then, or so I am led to believe.

John P McFarlane
123 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:00:22
Brian I don't understand the logic mate, only if City continue to drop points and Liverpool don't can it happen that way. As I said earlier they would need to be 25 points in front with 8 matches remaining.
Brian Williams
124 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:00:31
That's what I said mate.
Steve Ferns
125 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:03:47
Anyway, they go to the Theatre of Nightmares next. Ole is at the wheel and he's going to drive Klopp and co off a cliff. SO much so that they won't win another game this season and finish on 70 points. Or so I dreamt it last night.
Brian Williams
126 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:05:12
Have to admit I haven't checked, just going by what I was told. Could be a load of shite like. 😁
John P McFarlane
127 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:07:37
Anyway I'm praying for a Foinavon moment :)
Steve Ferns
128 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:17:20
Didn't know what you meant John, so I googled it. I saw Foinavon gallop away after the carnage at that fence and I was expecting the horse to suffer improbable defeat being pipped on the line. So, you got me with that one.

Link

So would this not be more apt? Link
City make a good Red Rum.

For all you foreigners, Red Rum is one of the most beloved adopted sons of Liverpool, with at least two statues of him, and not many great sportsman can say that.

Jay Harris
129 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:23:37
Steve,
The problem is that gap to 6th will still be there at the end of the season Unless Ancelotti can pull off a couple of good signings and he wreaks a few miracles.
Steve Ferns
130 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:26:24
Jay, I suggest you look at the projected table mate.
Rob Halligan
131 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:32:01
Steve (125), if you mean the RS go to the Theatre of Dreams next game, unfortunately, it's at Analfield. The game earlier in the season at OT was a 1-1 draw.
Steve Ferns
132 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:34:09
My mistake Rob. Ole is still at the wheel though, and he can still drive the Man Utd bus onto the pitch, run over Klopp, Salah, and Mane, and set in motion a devastating chain of events that sees them fail to win another game.
Brent Stephens
133 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:34:22
Headed goal Gibson 3-2 up.
Steve Ferns
134 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:35:03
Are we playing well Brent?
Rob Halligan
135 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:36:21
Here's hoping!!
Brent Stephens
136 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:37:40
3-3. Defence cut wide open.
Steve Ferns
137 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:38:13
Brent, stop being the bearer of bad news.
Brent Stephens
138 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:38:40
We’d had most of game Steve and then a sloppy goal
Steve Ferns
139 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:42:16
What do you older guys think of this "concept kit" on the back of the rumours of Hummel taking over. It looks like at kit from the late 70s or early 80s.

Stan Schofield
140 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:54:36
Jay@105: I didn't berate anyone, because I'm not angry with anyone. I'm simply giving my opinion to fellow Evertonians in the hope that it might be useful to someone, similarly to the opinion I gave on how to handle stick from other supporters.

I've never been put off my dinner by any footie match.

Steve Ferns
141 Posted 13/01/2020 at 20:54:44
93'
Red card at Southport

Who for?

Edit: After a Simon Cowell style slow reveal on the official site, it turned out to be for Arsenal and some fella called T-Bola.

Don Alexander
142 Posted 13/01/2020 at 21:00:21
Jay (#106) I can picture you as you describe. I picture t'other in goggles, a cape and a Fiery Jack smeared jockstrap for some reason.
Tamhas Woods
143 Posted 13/01/2020 at 22:42:12
So Ev beat Brighton. Yay. Someone should quickly make Everton v Brighton a derby match actually no that's a terrible idea, because Brighton would then go unbeaten for 10 years despite playing their Under 7s twice a season.

Many know they are beyond atonement.

By the way Lyndon, I have a suggestion and I'll probably get laughed at/shamed/threatened by self-styled hard cases - I couldn't care less. Instead of having over-paid no marks in the top right hand corner of the page, could we have proper Evertonians?

The sight of Keane's gormless "goat that has just been lamped" expression infuriates me, as it is the one he frequently wears when some divvy from Millwall/Soton/Brighton etc does him with a very interceptable long-ball. As does Coleman's pout like he's blowing chunks out of his arse (quite accurate I guess).

I would suggest Dean, Latchford, Sharp, Ferguson etc. Some fans too perhaps - brave people like Speedo Mick and Bradley Lowery, not the cowards that get undeserved airplay on the TW banner.

These are people who should mean more to us than any of those overpaid tossers.

Jeff Spiers
144 Posted 14/01/2020 at 16:37:09
Tamhas, would be great a true blues team, but I think the wages they get now could pull them into a whirlpool of cosiness. I could be wrong

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