A spineless surrender to Ole's under-fire Reds

Everton were back at Goodison Park after successive fixtures on the road to host Manchester United and their under-fire manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer in the early Saturday kick-off. But, despite leading through a nice Bernard goal, the absence of Richarlison was a crucial factor in the end.

Michael Kenrick 07/11/2020 371comments  |  Jump to last

James Rodriguez is available again and starts the game this afternoon

Everton were back at Goodison Park after successive fixtures on the road to host Manchester United and their under-fire manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer in the early Saturday kick-off. But, despite leading through a nice Bernard goal, the absence of Richarlison was a crucial factor in the end.

Holgate, James, Bernard and Sigurdsson start. Pickford resumes in goal, as expected. Richarlison serves the last game of his 3-match suspension watching from the sidelines.

The Blues were pushed back from the kick-off but defended the threat calmly. But it was something of a portent as the Blues struggled to stay on the ball in the early moves, which were far too much in one direction only.

But suddenly a fantastic move was created brilliantly by James with an amazing ball to Digne, with Bernard's cross catching a little too much of Calvert-Lewin's head and curling over the bar to hit the station behind. Everton then won the first corner but Sigurdsson could only find the first man as he tried to keep it low... it was too low.

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And Everton then looked miles the better team, with some fine inter-passing around the area, just the final ball not materializing. More nice play but James overhit his deep cross to Digne.

A Fernandes shot spun behind off Sigurdsson to provide the first corner for Man Utd corner and Martial almost scored in the third phase, then a floater into the sun had Pickford backpedalling. At the other end, Rodriguez's range-finder was still a little out of calibration as a cross-field ball for Bernard went behind.

Calvert-Lewin headed on a deep punt from Pickford, nicely to Bernard who picked his spot perfectly to squeeze a daisy-cuutter just inside De Gea's post.. Route One!

The injection of confidence to the Everton players was palpable, even though the visitors tried to respond, Rashford firing a cross-shot well wide. But they could do nothing to stop a fine header y Fernandes after a slow but very deliberate play, neither Keane, Holgate or Pickford could do anything about it.

Coleman was upended by Shaw but Utd defended James's decent delivery away and they roared up left-wing, Pickford gathering the low cross. A fine piece of action from Digne saw him fire at goal when he would really have crossed for CL who was better positioned.

Bernard spun off after a lovely exchange with Calvert-Lewin and ran in the channel only to see the ball snapped away off his shooting foot. Keane was slightly too strong on Fernandes, giving away a dangerous free-kick to the Red Devils that was driven over the wall to Pickford.

Man Utd were then allowed to repeat the move and score their second, although it was Ferenes's cross that was allowed to drift all the way in... surely a dreadful Pickford mistake.

Holgate went in a little heavy on Martial for a yellow card. Martial got behind and had a shot on Pickford but was then flagged offside. Blues were now looking very ragged and unable to put their foot on the ball. Everton were in full sideways and backwards passing mode, Calvert-Lewin giving it away when it did go forward.

Coleman caught Fernandes in a fairly clumsy clash, and he appeared to be injured but came back on after treatment. Keane then caught Martial in the face with his knee as they both went for an aerial ball.

Fred caught Calvert-Lewin to set u a good free-kick opportunity in added time, but it was Shaw who headed away Sigurdsson's delivery, and an Everton man got himself offside in the next phase.

Calvert-Lewin got double-teamed somewhat unfairly, Rodriguez uncharacteristically then went in late on Fernandes, then Allan caught Fred for a yellow card as Everton finished the half in angry frustration, unable to control the game.

After the restart, a nice set-up for Doucoured was blocked, while James was clipped strongly, Calvert-Lewin did very well to field a deep direct punt and carry it forward only to be fouled. But the execution of the free-kick by Sigurdsson was lazy, weak and ineffective.

Fred took a nasty piece out of Sigurdsson and received a yellow card for it.

Everton laboured to create much and when they did with Calvert-Lewin crossing for JR, Maguire anticipated it and blocked the Columbian effectively.

Coleman scampered through the channel but could not dig out a shot. Sigurdsson too aggressively pushed Fernades to give up another very dangerous opportunity from the free-kick that Pickford drops as he's going behind and Maguire gets cleaned out by Pickford and Keane simultaneously as he knees it over the bar. Surely a penalty? But amazingly not...

At the other end, Digne was cleaned out in a poor challenge by Maguire on an offside play that should also have been a penalty. The game had basically turned very scrappy and fractious since the restart, and Iwobi came on for Sigurdsson after 66 minutes.

Rashford beat the offside, and lashed his shot at Pickford, who later had to come out and pounce on a loose ball. At the other end, Iwobi was getting involved, as usual, but not really making anything happen, as usual. Holgate pulled off an important block of Matta's shot.

Iwobi finally put in a decent cross for Calvert-Lewin but Maguire in front of him claimed it all the way. From the corner, Maguire defending out to Bernard whose dreadful effort flew well away from the goal.

Calvert-Lewin did well to win a corner, taken short and ultimately defended away. Cenk Tosun was sent on in place of James Rodriguez who had become less and less effective as the game wore on.

Iwobi did well to rob ___ and work the ball up to Bernard but his cross was hopeless. Coleman did well to draw a challenge from Fred that was deemed worthy of a yellow card. A better ball in from Digne from the set-piece but Maguire again underneath to head it away.

Tosun got booked for a foul, as a couple of borderline incidents in the Everton penalty area warranted VAAR review, both accepting of Tierney's onfield decisions. But Everton ad done remarkably little to affect the scoreline in the second half. Doucoure bundling McTominay over for another yellow card near the end, Fernades trying to beat Pickford from 30 yards on the free-kick.

A surgical move down the right from Man Utd saw ____ fire straight at Pickford. Everton had one last attempt at working it around the Man Utd area, Doucoure leaning back and scooping one for a fine drop goal... oh, wait a minute.

A late chance fell to Doucouré, who could not convert, allowing Man Utd to counter with Cavani completing the move to really hammer home a shockingly poor result for Everton and Carlo Ancelotti.

With hardly any meaningful attempts on De Gea's goal, it really was a sorry performance from the Blues and one to prove, as if it was necessary that the early season winning start was something approaching a complete fluke.

Scorersf: Bernard (19'); Fernandes (25', 32'), Cavani (90+4')

Everton: Pickford, Digne, Holgate, Keane, Coleman, Bernard, Allan, Doucoure, James (80' Tosun), Sigurdsson (66' Iwobi), Calvert-Lewin.
Subs not Used: Olsen, Mina, Gomes, Godfrey, Davies.

Manchester United: De Gea, Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Mata, Bruno Fernandes, Rashford, Martial.
Subs: Henderson, Pogba, Cavani, James, Matic, van de Beek, Tuanzebe.

Referee: Paul Tierney
VAR: Michael Oliver

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Reader Comments (371)

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Brent Stephens
1 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:33:41
Strong line up!
Alan Rodgers
2 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:36:12
Good strong line up but if I was Gordon I'd be wondering if I should change my deoderant !
Ciarán McGlone
3 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:40:31
Sigurdsson aside.. that's the best eleven we could have put out in my opinion..

Bernard has got a lot of grief this season without hardly kicking a ball. Far better option than Iwobi.

I just hope that the rest of the team can make up for the inevitable pedestrian fouling stench that Sigurdsson will produce.

John Hall
4 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:40:57
Lots of players returning. Hope they are all fully fit.

Need a change in performance after the last two poor ones.


Derek Knox
5 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:43:41
More or less as expected and predicted by a few on the main match preview thread, I just hope that we get off to a good start and all are firing on all cylinders, and of course do have that bit of luck.

If we are to be serious contenders for the Top Four we can't afford to lose any more ground. Okay we are sitting in a fairly good position, but as Southampton showed last week and last night a couple of good results and it elevates you to the Top.

Let's make sure we knock them off that perch tonight and claim it back again. There are a few sides who can spring surprises and are playing well so let's not let our own wagon get derailed.

Christy Ring
6 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:54:27
A good lineup apart from Sigurdsson. What does Carlo see, that no one else does?
Jim Bennings
7 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:57:27
I'm assuming Holgate has looked 100 percent bang fit in training all week because a quick glance at what he's up against in the United attack, for his first game of the season, that's a big ask.

Clearly Carlo isn't impressed by what he's seeing from Gordon in training, so we can't speculate really?

The emphasis will be on how we defend, that United attack is good let's be honest.

Can't keep conceding two goals every week.

Dave Williams
8 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:57:48
Two strong teams though why Siggy plays and Gordon can’t even make the bench is astonishing. I can only assume Siggy shows up much better in training than he does on the pitch and that Carlo thinks Gordon currently falls short of what he is looking for.
This is a huge game for Bernard and a massive show of faith by Carlo. If he flunks this I suspect he will be gone in the next window. He has loads of ability and if his teammates give him the ball with a bit of space then he might just shine.
We need to hit them quickly and set a good tempo- they might not fancy a lot of running after Thursday.
Jay Evans
9 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:58:16
That is almost the team I would have chosen.

Almost. 🙄 🇮🇸

I fancy us today though. 2 - 1.

Full support.
Onward Evertonians. 👍🏼💙

Kevin Prytherch
10 Posted 07/11/2020 at 11:59:01
I don’t see how this selection will work. Bernard is a poor mans rodriguez who needs runners around him. We will have nothing in the way of movement going forward.

If Sigurdsson is in midfield today, we might as well give up now. If he is more advanced then he might have a chance of doing well as Utd will not sit back and defend, this will open up space. Unfortunately, if he is played more advanced there are likely to be limited options for him to make a pass.

We’re either going to have a midfield that will be lightweight with Bernard in, or slow and ponderous with Sigurdsson in.

What do Gordon and Davies have to do to get a game?

Jim Bennings
11 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:04:39

I kind of see where you are coming from with regards to Gordon, especially with players in his position underperforming.

I do get the feeling though that Carlo may be holding him back slightly for his own benefits.

Sometimes when a player isn't in the team we can get a warped sense of their importance and then build a player up so much that when he does play, if he's not producing magical match winning moments the fans start getting on their backs then.

Gordon should be getting more game time I agree, but let's not pretend he's the saviour yet because he isn't, expect too much too soon and then it ruins the lad.

Martin Berry
12 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:07:33
Thats as good as it gets with whats available. Holgate in for pace too, will be interesting to see where Bernard fits in, he may create just behind The Dom.
John Hall
13 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:08:52
Good point Christy @ 6 but there doesn't seem much to make an improvement from, other than Iwobi, Davies, Delph, Gomez, Tosun and Gordon. All been tried and with the exception of Gordon who I think should at least be on the bench have shown very little.

Next window I am sure will see some players gone and hopefully replaced with faster thinking and faster moving players.

Bernard in the last chance saloon today so hope he shows up as he does sometimes show how skillful he can be. Needs to put himself about, find the spaces and show for the ball throughout the game.

Tough one today no matter what anyone says as they have some terrific players on their day.

John Hall
14 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:08:52
Good point Christy @ 6 but there doesn't seem much to make an improvement from, other than Iwobi, Davies, Delph, Gomez, Tosun and Gordon. All been tried and with the exception of Gordon who I think should at least be on the bench have shown very little.

Next window I am sure will see some players gone and hopefully replaced with faster thinking and faster moving players.

Bernard in the last chance saloon today so hope he shows up as he does sometimes show how skillful he can be. Needs to put himself about, find the spaces and show for the ball throughout the game.

Tough one today no matter what anyone says as they have some terrific players on their day.

Fran Mitchell
15 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:12:31
We all want to see Gordon, we can only hope Carlo is doing what he knows is best. Maybe he wants to slowly introduce him into a functioning team, rather than one still finding it's groove. Also he probably has pressure to utilize, and try to find some form, from the big earners until they can be sold.

Fact is, without Richarlison, we are greatly disadvantaged. This dependance needs to be resolved in the next window.

But, in other positive news, the other 9 players (well, 8 as Siggy) are our first choice players. That right side of James and Coleman is key, and Digne too.

Steve Hogan
16 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:14:40
Bernard contributes nothing, neither does Sigurdsson, not sure Carlo's team choice is our most effective lineup.
Darren Hind
17 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:21:22
I'm nervous.

This is massive for us. We win and the team is showing a bouncebackability which will give the players plenty of encouragement going forward. if we lose we will start to tumble down the table.

Good Good players in that United line up, but they don't always put it together as a unit. Tough one to call, but I'm going for an Everton win - just


Tony Everan
18 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:23:31
Always much less optimistic these days with Sigurdsson in the line up as he tends to slow play down, and can’t tackle or close down fast enough. When he plays it worries me we will be giving away control of the midfield.

The manager must be seeing promising signs from him in training for him to start, so maybe he can turn his form around.

Man Utd have been poor and fatigue will kick in too if we can play at a high tempo for 90 mins. I can see us posing a threat from corners and free kicks and this is where the match will be won in a tight and scrappy game. Prediction

Everton 1 Man Utd 0

Mark Frere
19 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:24:10
There isn't much pace in the attacking positions (God we miss Richarlison when he's out) apart from DCL.

I just hope Siggy is deployed centrally in an advanced role in a 4-2-3-1 formation. He's next to useless deeper or out wide.

Neil Lawson
20 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:26:46
It's the bench that puzzles me. Coleman may not go the distance, so why no Kenny ?
And why no pace up front off the bench. Surely Gordon.
Do we really need all those extra defenders and midfield players. Does appear somewhat negative.
Henrik Lyngsie
21 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:28:11
Good lineup BECAUSE of Sigurdsson. With Richalison out we are really short of goal threads. That is why Gylfi is a key player for Carlo.
I also like Bernard in the starting line up. His link up with Digne is good and could be key as well.
Derek Moore
22 Posted 07/11/2020 at 12:29:49
Need to turn the tide, today.

Positive lineup anyway. That's half the battle.


Simon Dalzell
23 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:00:38
Defence AWOL. Free header. 2nd as I write, just as bad. Holgate, I just don't like.
Pete Hughes
24 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:07:30
Ffs Everton, this could be a landslide!
Danny Broderick
25 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:16:11
Henrik (21)

Gylfi Sigurdsson is shite. He’s been anonymous again. He trots about the pitch when the other team has the ball. He stands still when we have it. He doesn’t tackle, he’s not scoring or creating. How can you rate him when he is anonymous every week?!

Andy Mead
26 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:17:03
Typical Everton. Having a bad run? Need a result? Welcome to Goodison. Nothing changes. They are running rings around us. Same old Everton
Ciarán McGlone
27 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:17:20
Defensive mindset..

lose the ball.. drop back into formation. Rather than closing down..

Have the ball.. look sideways and backwards as a first consideration. No thought of going forward..

Decent 15 minutes then reverted to the above..

Holgate and Keane marking no one for both their goals. Shambolic..

Bernard playing well...

Alex Gray
28 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:23:49
I just cant understand how we can go from looking unbeatable to not being able to play whatsoever.
Michael Lynch
29 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:23:53
Awful midfield today - Siggi and James doing very little. Bernard and Digne probably the pick of a poor bunch for us. United look sharp, if they improve their final ball and finishing, this could easily end 1-5
Michael McIvor
30 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:26:32
Agree totally with Ciaran (27). Cowardly, lack any creative ideas, non existant and criminal marking, no urgency either in defence or attack. Poor form all around. Very worrying.
Alan J Thompson
32 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:29:09
Will someone tell Holgate he is a central defender not a central spectator. For both their goals he is standing and watching one of their players rather than moving to him and challenging for the ball.

Then we have midfield players with the "I'll get him in a minute" method of marking, the I've got the space why mark the man.

And up front, Calvert-Lewin has to move across their backline on the six yard box not in between defenders so that the ball can't reach him.

It's not that difficult and it could make a difference even if it just looks better!

Justin Doone
33 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:29:52
We had it, we had the lead. Instead of being patient and sensible we have lost it.

There's no one following the runners.
Defender's not tight enough. Too much space in between defence and midfield not picking anyone up.

We can get back into this but I think Allan has been poor. He's on a yellow card, sub him off. Play Doucoure or Holgate there. A bit of Gordon pace for Siggy through the middle.

Tony Heron
34 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:33:16
Keane getting pulled over to cover Coleman, who's getting isolated. Holgate not reading the situation and letting Fernandes run free. Our Achilles Heel is the right side. Midfield could cover if they had 3 in there. Sigurdsson once again is missing.
Andrew Clare
35 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:33:51
James has been a passenger. We look so weak on the left.
Somehow we have got to get back into this.
Phil Wood
36 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:37:22
Incredible. Same as other defeats. Wide open on our right twice.
Central defence a disgrace. Kean ball watching twice and player strolls in behind twice.
We need a defensive coach as we are a shambles at the back.
Absolutely no cover for any right back and central defence invisible.
Christy Ring
37 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:43:04
Coleman is totally exposed, put James in the pocket behind Calvert-Lewin, bring on Davies, still can't understand Carlo leaving the passenger Sigurdsson on, is he waiting until we concede another goal
Justin Doone
38 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:44:49
Yes I know Gordon isn't on the bench..
Barry Rathbone
39 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:46:23
So unexpected

(sarc button firmly pressed)

Phil Wood
40 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:55:41
Who has Anthony Gordon murdered?
Siggy is the teachers pet.
Phil Wood
41 Posted 07/11/2020 at 13:56:50
Alex Iwobi prove me wrong
Christy Ring
42 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:12:18
The one thing we learned over the last 3 games, how important is Richarlison?
Mike Allison
43 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:16:49
I just can’t cope with the amount of backwards passes we make.
Simon Dalzell
44 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:19:26
We're just shite.
Peter Neilson
45 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:22:37
Agree about Richarlison, not just his attacking but his work rate. Added to that when we have to replace him it involves Sigurdsson coming into the team which is like playing with ten men.
Henrik Lyngsie
46 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:27:26
Danny 25. I will give you that Gylfi was poor. But my point was that he is a natural goal threat and we have very few of these. We could probably could have played 10 hours more without scoring again.
Ian Lloyd
47 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:27:42
God we are atrocious
Dave Abrahams
48 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:28:38
Goodnight Vienna.
Ciarán McGlone
49 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:29:02
To suggest this simply down to the absence of Richarlison is wrong.

We are being coached to play this defeatist shite. This is training ground stuff.

Poor... poor poor.

Lead balloon.

Jim Bennings
50 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:29:32
Piss poor again.

No defender at the club the can actually defend, defensive midfielder's that don't affect the game.

I'm starting to really worry with Ancelotti now that he's just another in the long list of Koeman's ect.

Certainly can't defend under him.

Michael Lynch
51 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:29:46
Better second half, but lacking finesse. 3-1 flattered them, but they probably edged it, even though a draw would have been reasonable.

I know it might not seem the obvious thing to say after a day like this, but DCL is getting better and better.

Justin Harris
52 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:30:06
Just nowhere near good enough!!
Jim Bennings
53 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:31:40
It was good while it lasted but reality is another season fending off shite like Newcastle for 10th place.

We aren't even in the same league as Southampton or Leicester anymore.

Ajay Gopal
54 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:32:03
Weird headline. Michael. It was anything but a shameful surrender. Initial thoughts are that we should have taken at least a point. Doucoure missed a couple of good opportunities towards the end. We played good football today, everyone worked hard, we just couldn’t unlock the Man United defence. We were undone by 2 poor CB mistakes. But I take heart from this performance- much, much better than the previous 2 games.
Kev Dooley
55 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:33:07
So sick of this team, year in year, year out...same shit...
I feeling like kicking Fernandez s teeth in
Joe McMahon
56 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:33:22
I've just got in to see the result I knew would always happen. Without Richarlason we have very little. Awful form is back, yet again mid table finish at best is on the cards. Why oh why Moise JlKean was loaned our puzzles me. Even Burnley will keep more clean sheets. Awful as always.
Tony Hill
57 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:34:32
I'm afraid it looks as though we have bought badly yet again. If you have no midfield you do not win games. That said, we were awful defensively too.

We should be very worried because I don't see where we go from here; the lack of strength and quality in the team is appalling.

I've truly had enough.

George Cumiskey
58 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:38:15
I thought it was another gutless performance and Dacoure our supposed box to box player was the worse player on the pitch.
Tony Everan
59 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:38:46
Can Carlo please set up a team without Sigurdsson in it. He offers nothing.

Tony 57, I am with you mate, can't be arsed with it all, I've had enough too.

Jeff Armstrong
60 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:39:07
Why did he move Keane to right centre back when he’s been decent on the left side and Holgate is useless on his left, should have left Keane alone and Holgate on the right, not the only Carlo cock up mind you.
Alex Gray
61 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:39:16
The second Tosun came on you just knew it was over. Glorified carthorse. Sigi is a waste of good air.

Our priority in January is an attacking midfielder then a winger with some pace to play back up to Richarlison.

David Connor
62 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:40:42
Pathetic again. If things don't change rapidly, Ancelotti will be sacked this season and any manager who persists with Sigurdsson – let alone makes the useless fucker captain – deserves the sack. Fuck 'em. What a bunch of useless bastards we have purchased.
Dave Williams
63 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:40:46
Well how poor was that? We didn’t look bad until they scored and after that we were second best in almost everything. James apart from a few nice touches early on was anonymous as was the totally ineffective Sigurddssson- yet again! United are not that good but no one will beat them with what was in effect a nine man team.
Tosun has nothing to offer at this level as we have seen so many times before and quite why Tom didn’t get at least half an hour is beyond me. Carlo seems to have turned against the younger players in favour of experienced players who contribute nothing. I am starting to have some serious doubts about him as he does not appear to have learned that Sig,Tosun,Delph and Gomes are all too slow and ponderous and at least Tom and Gordon would inject some effort into the team.
Our passing in the main was slow, our attempts at crossing were lamentable and why is a Siggy taking set pieces- he has been crap at them for at least 18 months now.
I thought Coleman,Digne,Bernard and Allan played ok. I will not start on Pickford who should now have two red cards in four games.
Truly dreadful and Carlo has an awful lot of work to do to inject workrate, pace, creativity and decent crossing ability. We have one of the best centre forwards in the country- why aren’t we using him?
Phil Rodgers
64 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:40:53
Same shit, different season. The club stinks of mediocrity. Looked like we might have the makings of a side in the early weeks but all that has been washed away by three wretched performances. Completely soul destroying.
Ernie Baywood
65 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:40:56
Didn't read the report in the article because I disagree with the headline.

It wasn't spineless. We lacked quality when it mattered.


Mike Keating
66 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:41:17
Luckily for me I was trying to follow this on hesgoal (anyone know why it is so crap?) and missed the final humiliation. From what I did see, we gave the ball away too often and Manure were pretty good on the break. Felt sorry for Coleman, surprised to see Iwobi making a game of it and disappointed with Dacoure - especially his poor effort at the end. Pickford trying hard to get benched for the next game.
As others have said - what is wrong with using Gordon as a direct replacement for Richarlison?
Did Tosun actually touch the ball once?
Kevin Prytherch
67 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:41:54
Well, we finally started to look more like a team when Sigurdsson went off.

Baffling team selection, we need runners to make the most out of Rodriguez and, with Richarlison out, the only 2 we have left are Gordon and Iwobi (as much as I think Iwobi is not good enough).

It’s no surprise that we looked better with someone stretching them out wide, this then creates space for overlaps or inside.

Sigurdsson didn’t do a lot wrong today, but Sigurdsson didn’t do a lot in general today - other than waste numerous set piece situations.
Bernard played better than I expected.
Calvert-Lewin needs some service.
Rodriguez had no outlet when he had the ball.
Doucoure should have done better with 2 chances.
Allan was ok.
Full backs were decent.
Holgate and Keane showed rustiness in the first half as a pairing, but got better.
Pickford had his usual once a game howler.

I still persist that I would be happy never seeing Sigurdsson or Delph in a blue shirt again.

Lee Courtliff
68 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:43:01
I can't believe how pathetically weak and pitiful we are!!

How can someone like Carlo Ancelotti NOT get his midfield to play FORWARDS?!?!?

It's just staggering.

Jim Bennings
69 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:43:23
How did we go from having no money under Martinez but a midfield with likes of Barkley, Barry, McCarthy, Deulofeu, Lennon, Mirallas ect to what we have right now despite spending shit loads of money?

The midfield has no pace, there's no decent winger with pace.

Defence just the same as under Martinez, slipshod, weak mentally and switch off constantly.

Sickening when you at the way other teams around us play with a real shape and dynamic.

Gavin Johnson
70 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:44:46
United turned up and wanted it today. We weren't really at the races for large parts of the 1st half despite Bernard's well taken goal. I did think we'd have grabbed an equalizer in the 2nd half but it didn't happen and the score ended up flattering them.

I thought Iwobi played well when he came on. I'd have played him instead of Sigurdsson centrally from the start. He's better at breaking up play, has better energy and can move with the ball. Then again, that can't be too difficult, I am talking about Sigurdsson here?! It's been a disappointment given we opened the scoring and then let them back into the game from silly defensive errors. Holgate is rusty and he probably needs the international break to get match fit. It's imperative that we get back to winning ways at Fulham. If we lose to them then this more than a bump in the road. But I wouldn't take too much attention to the result today. I'd hazard a guess that Ancelotti's overall win record since he's been here is still in the top 4.

Btw, a special mention to Fernandes. What a player but an absolute shit house who spent most of the game on the floor trying to get fouls.

Andrew Keatley
71 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:45:00
DCL (who I thought had a very good game) needs much more support. Without Richarlison it is hard to see who will successfully provide that support. Bernard (who played well) and James (who didn’t) are players who prefer to drop deep to get the ball. I have no idea what Sigurdsson (anonymous - again) is adding to us offensively right now (and ditto Gomes when he plays). Iwobi showed some positive signs when he came on, but really it seems to be Coleman and Digne who often offer more of an attacking support to DCL - and that is not how it should be.

Much to ponder. But our inability to deal with Fernandes on the edge of our box is really what cost us today. For me that was because of midfielders switching off; Sigurdsson for the first Fernandes goal, as on initial viewing it seemed like he got drawn all over the place rather than just staying with Fernandes.

Great to see Holgate back.

Jack Ledwidge
72 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:45:48
Let’s not kid ourselves. Apart from the opening game v Spurs our performances have been iffy to say the least. I include the Brighton and WBA games in that. Our team just isn’t good enough full stop. We brought in 3 during the summer and Carlo needs another 3. Until such time as this is done we’ll be playing catch up.
Frank Sheppard
73 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:47:17
I hope Carlo says it like it was. A very poor performance, only a few players can hold their heads up. Their keeper didn’t have to make a save in the 2nd half. That shocking statistic sums the display up.
Danny Baily
74 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:47:47
Last time I checked we were winning. I was getting ready for a big celebration. Then all these goals for UTD started appearing. This is a massive fraud. If you count the legal goals we win massively.
Kieran Kinsella
75 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:48:46
We were winning, we were ready for a celebration, then it suddenly stopped and they kept finding all these goals. Bags of illegal goals from dead people, and people who weren’t registered to play. It’s the biggest con job in history. The FA, EPL, Sky, Crooked Hillary, they decided to steal the game. We won with the LEGAL GOALS. We hereby claim three points.
Steve Brown
76 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:48:47
Goals posted after 90 minutes shouldn't count!
Chris Leyland
77 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:49:27
Too many players playing within themselves and always taking the safe option of going backwards. Sigurdsson the chief culprit. We needed the pace and directness of Gordon. But he wasn’t even in squad
Kieran Kinsella
78 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:49:27
Danny lmao jinx. Great minds
Joe Corgan
79 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:49:32
No doubt Richarlison’s stupid red card in the derby has cost us serious points. The next game away at Fulham has become critical to ensuring we don’t go into a downward spiral.
Jim Harrison
80 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:49:46
No complaint about the result, but how does Fernandez stay on the pitch?
Peter Jansson
81 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:50:13
We have some serious problem, only one good central defender, still a serious running/speed problem and a lack of offensive skill problem.

We need players that are able to run fast. Sigurdsson can not start any games. He is too slow, period.

Where is Gordon? The only midfield player with speed? Not even on the bench?

What is it with Doucoure? Yes, he is good defensively, but whats going on with his offensive involvment?

Holgate, where should I start. Is he the best choice? What about Godfrey? Is he not a better choice than Holgate as a central defender?

The right wing is too slow with Rodriguez and Coleman. Everything happened on the other side with Bernard and Digne.

A couple of players good today Bernard, Digne, Allan, DCL, Keane and Iwobi when he came in. Thats not good enough.

Tosun - seriously, we could have played with 10 men, would have been no difference.

Without Richarlison we are shit. Same problem as earlier. Next time we buy players we have to buy players that can run a lot and fast.

Justin Doone
82 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:51:13
Holgate was marking his man!
I'll say again, Holgate WAS marking his man.

Keane (the experienced defender, cough cough) was marking space ie no one.

Bruno their best player was left unmarked all game. Our CDM should have taken responsibility but no one did.

You could see a counter attack coming all game. I just didn't expect so many of our players out of position. Poor defensively again.

After reading the lead we would have started in shadow and controlled the game. We did it well against spurs. Been terrible since.

Tony Abrahams
83 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:51:30
I also thought the headline was wrong Ernie, because although the first half was poor once we went ahead, I thought we tried very hard in the second half, and just never had enough quality to damage United’s backline.

Can’t listen to these commentators, did McManaman really grow up in kirkdale? And as much as I think Pickford needs a rest, not one of these phoney bastards mentioned McGuire’s hand push right into our keepers chest, just before he dropped the ball.

Feel sorry for Allan and Doucoure, because the midfield is not being set up right imo, but I saw enough fight and effort, but just not enough quality, and also a formation that is making the pitch too big, when we haven’t got possession of the ball.

Derek Moore
84 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:54:02
I was impressed with Dom. Had very little to no real supply but worked his bollocks off to present for the ball.
The Keane and Holgate combination looked rusty and United exploited it. Pickford enjoyed his usual brain snap and his usual good fortune in escaping any consequences for it.
Digne and Seamus were both really good for us. Digne smacking the outside of the stanchion at 1-1 felt like a potential turning point and it was.
It was the midfield where it fell down for us. Sigurdsson, Bernard an off the pace Rodriguez and Doucoure fell into the same trap as at the end of last season - too easy to pass around and through. We did at least enjoy long periods with the ball but created precious little. They scored three times and Martial scuffed one narrowly wide in addition to a Pickford stop from Rashford.
Maguire was good for them, but Fernandes was the difference although how he stayed on the pitch will forever remain a mystery. The officiating was mystifying, although it didn't intefere with the result whatsoever. United were just better than us.
Back to the drawing board for all concerned, and a terrific start now well and truly squandered. Everton that.
Cristobal Aguirre
85 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:54:19
After see the Fernandes free time given for the referee, and taking in consideration our last few matches against MU, if I were Moshiri I would submit the next request to the Premier League before the next clash:

"Everton FC. has the honor to submit a formal request to the Premier League asking if MU and the referees will commits fraud against in the upcoming match between both clubs. In case the answer is affirmative, Everton FC. formally offers do not present its team for the next match and give the points freely to MU".

Bill Fairfield
86 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:54:51
And yet another spineless performance,siggy must look a world beater in training,can think of no other reason why he gets a game.Atrocious defending again.Very disappointing.
Terry McLavey
87 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:57:06
I know we were shite but the ref certainly didn't help by not booking some of their dreadful challenges.
Also that twat Beglin's unbelievable bias commentary which I eventually turned off.
I have a Manc supporter friend on Facebook (yes he's Cornish, of course, it's either RS or them down 'ere !)
He posted "easy" I posted easy with a tame ref !
Anthony Jones
88 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:57:17
The bottom line is we have spent loads more money and still looked pretty poor today.

Chris Leyland
89 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:58:20
I’d have had Tom Davies starting ahead of Sigurdsson. At least he tries to go forward with it.Set prices were also woeful.
Stephen Tyler
90 Posted 07/11/2020 at 14:59:14
Get Zaha in January!
Colin Battison
91 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:01:46
Another weekend ruined. Keane and Holgate piss poor today, and still we are backwards and sideways passing all the time. We never look to break the lines quickly, we are so easy to defend against, no genuine width, DCL winning headers and chasing them down himself.

How on earth Sigurdsson still gets a game is beyond me, he offers nothing at all to the team, he never beats the first man on dead ball set pieces. We are playing with ten men every time he puts the shirt on. I know one man does not make a team but how much do we need Richarlison back.
Jerome Shields
92 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:04:55
Miss the match, thought it was on later. Now glad I did miss it. Would have not been happy with Sigurdsson starting. It just adds another layer to the opposition defence, allowing them to control midfield. Haven't seen the game yet or read comments. Don't really want to make my weekend worse. Analogy has to realise that certain players are no use.
Kim Vivian
93 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:06:04
I am not a fan of Doucoure but disagree that he was quite so shite today as people are making out. For the most part I thought he did ok except no driving forward like we saw him do at Watford. 2 efforts at the end were poor though, especially the second one - that was probably a goal if he had connected.
Iwobi replacing the concrete booted Sigurdsson gave us a much needed lift and it was on the cards they were going to grab a 3rd at the death on the break.
Hard work being a Toffee.
Jay Harris
94 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:08:04
If you watch any replays Pickford is clearly pushed by Maguire but the media has an agenda since vvd so they go on about a Pickford challenge rather than Maguire who didn’t even get more than a mention for his disgraceful challenge on Digne.
The Ted media machine will always undermine us and Poisson the officials against us although they don’t need much help on that score
Tony Hill
95 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:10:07
Interesting stat from another site: our entire midfield (including Rodriguez) managed three passes to DCL. Sigurdsson managed none. The most passes for him came from Pickford and Keane.

As I say, it's the midfield. I agree with Tony Abrahams about our set up (Ancelotti is an increasing concern) but Allan and Dacoure, especially the latter, aren't delivering when and where it matters.

Kase Chow
96 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:11:35
Beyond woeful
Ajay Gopal
97 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:11:37
I thought that everyone worked their socks off. I would prefer to take the positives from this performance.

The Bernard and Digne combination was good to see in the 1st half.
Digne should have crossed for DCL instead of going for glory.
Allan covered a lot of ground and came forward more with the ball.
Doucoure protected Coleman well today, but he should have scored from one of the 2 chances at the end.
I had given up on Iwobi, but to be fair to him, he always seems to play better from the bench. He was a real thorn in Man United’s side and created a few opportunities.
Siggy played well although his set piece delivery was very disappointing. In general, we had more set piece opportunities than Man Utd but the delivery was very disappointing.

I thought Man United defended well, we just didn’t have the guile on the day to break them down and conceded 2 soft goals.

Allan Board
98 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:12:03
Oh dear, did not expect that. This is not a good result in terms of the progression of this club. Perhaps the best way to deal with it is to just expect nothing from Everton, then anything above that is a bonus.
Got to say though, how gutless are our players? Christ on a bike!
Need Kwik Fit round to put the wheels back on!
There is a point where you can't find the words to describe this footy lark-think I'm there.What is wrong with our players?!!?!?!
Going back to decorating the house and loud rock!
Pat Kelly
99 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:13:27
Ancelotti and his old buddies are starting to look like their best days are well behind them. The occasional spark might remain but the fire is out and time has overtaken them. Not their fault but they're not the future. Not even the present. There's not much else in the squad either when Richie is out. It's going to be a very long season battling for a top half finish.
Mick Conalty
100 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:14:51
Carlo has just entered the sack race.

Lester Yip
101 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:15:07
I have watched the replay a few times. What I can see is Coleman standing too far away from the crosser. Probably being worried got beaten by pace? He played well against Zaha earlier. So I attribute it to be his first game back after injury and not as sharp yet.

With the space the ManU players have the quality to deliver an accurate cross, right between Keane and Holgate. I checked their position which looks correct. I heard the commentary saying the centre backs should have stand closer together. Mind you. The moment they stand closer together, the ball would be played towards the front post or towards the back post. Same result. They have the quality to cross. So we have to deal with that before allowing that to happen.

I know Doucoure should have take his chances better. But when I look at how much ground he covered, I can understand. He's doing a lot of heavy-lifting for others. We need more players who can run. And can run fast.

I have given up on Iwobi. But today he's the bright spot. Also Bernard.

We would have big trouble facing Leeds.

Christy Ring
102 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:22:25
Disappointed to say the least, especially with Carlo still starting Sigurdsson, he brings absolutely nothing, and now, even his freekicks and corners are shocking. He's been taken off in every game, why keep starting him. Does Davies not deserve a chance, and why is Gordon snubbed, the only player with pace, especially as Tosun is now our new hope! Thank God Richarlison is back after the International break, hopefully he'll get back unscathed.
Ian Bennett
103 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:22:33
Poor defending for the goals from Keane, Holgate and Allan.

No goal threat bar Bernard's effort.

Piss poor creativity from midfield.

Pickford got away with another error.

Massively miss Richarlison. Too many players that need shifting through the door.

Mike Gaynes
104 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:23:57
Agree with Ajay. I saw a great effort and absolutely nothing "spineless"... we just played poorly. Coleman and Holgate had nightmares, Digne made a really bad decision, Duke botched two late chances, Allan lost focus a couple of times, and James was never really in the game.

The only two who really shined were two we didn't expect -- Bernard with a ceaseless effort and some really lovely passes to go with his goal, and Iwobi with a genuine spark off the bench and our only good crosses of the day.

Mike Gaynes
105 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:26:32
Off-topic, but remember Rooney's goal from our own half a few years ago? Well, his brother John Rooney just did the same for Stockport at Rochdale in an FA Cup tie.
Barry Rathbone
106 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:28:10
The club have asked for an updated version of "spirit of the blues" so I obliged

Here's some news for the blues
We've found this new way to lose
When we're hot then we fail
And we all get right on the ale

So get your coat on and get moving
Come and see this new way of losing
So come on come on get smashed at goodison park

Everton, always take us lightly
Everton, you got us on the booze
Everton, always take us lightly
Everton, so many ways to lose

We're on the glue
From watching all the ways we lose
It's no surprise
That the whole thing's affected my eyes

So get your coat on and get moving
We've found a new way of losing
So come on come on get smashed at goodison park

Everton, always take us lightly
Everton, you got us on the booze
Everton, always take us lightly
Everton, so many ways to lose

Jack Convery
107 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:28:31
I would break the bank to bring Ward Prowse to Goodison. His passion, commitment and no lack of skill is just what we need. He's not afraid to get in the faces of the opposition either. Get a good 6 years out of him too. Lamptey from Brighton as well and 10 years service too. Please stop playing Siggy and Delph and FFS give a Gordon a chance.
Paul Birmingham
108 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:34:32
Sadly Everton, stood and watched and played again as if they were playing Bayern.

The officials were garbage through out, but theres no excuse. Sadly playing football with no belief, desire and tempo means we wont win too many games this season.

Thank God, Richarlison is back next week. The last x3 games and I doubt we've had x10 shots on goal.

Absolutely sick to the back teeth. United wanted it more, and we didn't stick one in on the dirty cowardly, diving crap house Fernandez.

Basic defending, was missing again, basic finishing and umpteen final balls, went missing.

Fulham will fancy their chances, next week and based on Evertons last x3 games, you can't blame them.

Surely, next week Anthony Gordon starts instead of Siggy?

For me the mojo of the team has vanished, over night, and whilst we are still in a decent position another performance like this, and the normal season, will be here again for Everton.

The frustration today, after decades, of mediocrity, is feeling worse.

Losing playing well and trying, you don't mind, but losing like this today against United, feels very bad.

No belief, no shape no inspiration...

What the hell, is going wrong as, this demise in form, is not all down to being without Richarlison..

A few beers will ease the pain, but not the inevitability,of night turning today and day to night, that Everton, will let us down again.

Sick to the back teeth and a life time book of inevitability in context of EFC, ambles on.

Next week hopefully the squad will focus on the basics, and desire and grind out a much needed win at Fulham.

Massive game for the club and the manager and coaches and the players have a lot to work on, to turn this bad form around.

Colin Glassar
109 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:35:58
Not surprised in the least me. After the derby the wind has well and truly gone out of the sails. Spineless performances from the usual suspects eg Gomes, Sigurdsson etc...

The games against Southampton and Newcastle were warning signs, this one is a foghorn! I have to give Iwobi his due today; useless but willing.

I’m not giving up on Carlo. He still needs two more transfer windows but Jesus Christ it’s harder each season to watch this shite.

Will Mabon
110 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:37:59
Barry - "...on the glue" :-)

Careful, you might have a best seller on your hands.

Dickie Langley
111 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:38:08
Just imagine for a moment that we had Bruno Fernandes instead of Gylfi Sigurdsson.

I thought it was great to see my first choice defence play today, though I don't know why Keane and Holgate didn't swap left/right. Keane's been having a good season, but was at fault for their first 2 goals.

James is brilliant, but I don't think we can carry him when we don't have Richarlison on the other side. When there's no Richarlison, James should be on the bench.

DCL is brilliant, but must be knackered battling on his own like that.

Doucoure's lost his shooting boots, but will be fantastic when he finds them again. It's just a pity he can't be rested for a couple of games to find his form.

Bernard and Iwobi tried, but they look like mid-table players at best. Bernard is a poor man's Brazilian Leon Osman.

Allan can't carry the midfield on his own.

Sigurdsson. Gylfi Sigurdsson. If he's the answer, then I'm really struggling to know what the question is. He's not good at pressing, he can pass, but he can't dribble. And he's allergic to going forwards. Frankly I wish we had a Barkley-style player there instead.

Justin Doone
112 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:40:31
The season is still early. 1st International break came too early for us. This has come at a good time.

It's about taking responsibility, communication, partnerships and hard work.

Pickford OK, a few flaps but he was fouled by Maguire when dropping the ball. Much, much better kicking.

Holgate played well. 1st game back. He's helped our left side look good. Digne and Bernard linked well. Keane was Keane. Did OK but takes blame for their first goal.

The right side did very little in the first half. James just needs to find space and control the game. Seamus tried a few runs but there was very little effective link up.

Centrally I thought Allan, Doucoure and Siggy did little. No energy. Allan was our best attacking midfielder but our worst defensively, all very wrong.

A lack of cover, understanding, combinations and lack of forward options didn't help.

If Siggy isn't going to shoot from distance he offers no threat. Play Davies who at least will put a tackle in.

DCL good hold up play. Very few chances, needs quicker and more crosses into the box.

As for subs. Iwobi did OK. Put a few crosses in. Chased back, won the ball a few times.

Tosun, nothing.

Next game is now very important.

Dave Lynch
113 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:43:51
Sorry but I did expect this for a number of reasons.

1. We are not as good as early results suggested
2. We are still suffering from the legacy of the past 4 managers player wise
3. Utd where hurting after midweek capitulation and they have a lot more quality than us, lets face it, their manager is not a a patch on Carlo but the quality they have pulled them through
4. It's what I've come to expect from Everton

Will Mabon
114 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:48:31
...and now Palace sticking it up Leeds.
Fran Mitchell
115 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:50:01
Need this international break.

We could and should have drawn the game. For me the pivotal moment was Digne not squaring to DCL. 2-1 then and a different story

However, we played into their hands. It was an almost perfect opening 20 minutes. Then we let Utd in, opened up and practically gifted them the lead.

The second half was a case of Utd sitting deep, cynical fouls breaking any play we made (and the referee allowing them to do so). If that had been us, the media would be spitting blood at our 'dirty' play. Yet for Utd, it's simply the players showing their passion and loyalty to their manager. Fernandes should have been sent off. Maguire should have been too for his cynical lunge on Digne. Fred also went two footed on Allan to zero punishment. They would pull our shirts, and the referee would fall.for it every time. If the fans were there, it may be different as we'd have been screaming at the woeful refereeing.

But still, that doesn't make up for our naivety after taking the lead. Then our lack of ability to break them down in the second half. We need Richarlison, that is clear. His pace and aggression going forward are greatly missed.

Our bench is just too weak, Tosun is poor, so poor.

But Allan was back to his best, which was good to see. Iwobi was ok when he came on. But we need another midfielder, and another attacker, it's plain to see.

Christy Ring
116 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:51:57
Mike#104 A tad harsh on Coleman, he was totally exposed, had no help whatsoever ahead of him, Shaw was like a winger with James looking on.
Calvert-Lewin one of the best strikers in the air, and very few balls played to his advantage, that's why I'm mystified Gordon not even on the bench.
Joe McMahon
117 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:53:19
My money has to go on diffrent things these days as we all have to prioritise. I certainly won't be paying to see Everton anytime soon, even when we can attend games again. After decades of it, what's the point, we won't win anything or achieve anything.

The appointment of Koeman/Walsh has done us just as much damage as the Kings Dock fiasco, as the squad is awful. Carlo needs a squad of top-top players, Seedorf, Lampard, Petr Cech, Cafu, Pirlo, Nesta, Ramos, Drogba. You get my drift.

The Everton Job and squad is as challenging as it gets along with the ingrained losers mentality. The Peoples Club eh. It's shambolic.

Eddie Dunn
118 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:53:22
The main problem is the alarming lack of pace through the midfield. The likes of Siggy stand off their man and close down the space but on the ball they are all taking too long, refuse to take a man on and recycle possession sideways or back.
James switched play a couple of times which had utd flummoxed but apart from Bernard's goal we were simply ineffectual.
Iwobi made a difference but our early zonal marking had given the game away.
Incicentally, Pickford might well have had Maguire's hand on his chest but he should have taken the ball out with him, not throw it down, and although Keane kicked Maguire first, Pickford also put a knee on him.
The BT commentators were straight on it and everyone else will be on his case from now on.
The officials were soft on them but that wasn't the reason for our defeat.
Carlo seems dead set on playing half-fit guys and old pros like Siggy week -in- week-out.
Richarlison has papered over our cracks just like Fernandez papered over United's today.
We have been conceding a couple of goals a game, even Fleetwood popped two past us.
We simply can't defend and now aren't making chances either. This is a bad sign.
The international break is coming up, I pray that Domenic, and Richarlison don't get crocked.
Jay Harris
119 Posted 07/11/2020 at 15:54:08
Don’t understand why we always have to have a whipping boy.

Soggy didn’t play to badly today he covered enormous amount of space but poor defending by Coleman and whoever was supposed to be picking Fernandez up.

If we keep giving up at least 2 goals a game we will lose far more than we win.

We are getting back to Marco style tippy tappy at the back, can’t create chances and leak goals like a sieve.

Over to you Carlo.

Ajay Gopal
120 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:06:49
Richarlison coming back will make a massive difference. Him for Siggy would be like the difference between night and day. I would not make any other change. With Richarlison’s support, defenders have 2 players to worry about. And then James finds more space to play his magical passes. And then we have Iwobi to come on (in place of Bernard) for the final 20-30 mins and I feel strangely confident (fingers crossed that we don’t have any more injuries to our key players) that we will still have a pretty decent season. Hopefully Gbamin coming back and Davies, Iwobi, Siggy and Gomes from the bench will give us some options. I wouldn’t give up on Tosun yet, he is better than Kean who many here seem to be pining for in spite of his terrible performances. Gordon and Nkounkou will be given their chances - they need to be patient.

Coleman Holgate Keane Digne
Doucoure Allan
James Richarlison Bernard

Keep the hope up guys, it is still early days! We got to believe that Carlo will get it right.

Roger Helm
121 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:11:52
It doesn’t seem to matter who the manager is or which players we buy, for over 20 years now, every Everton team I have watched has been (compared to other EPL sides) slow, physically weak, poorly organised and mentally half-conceding before they start, with heads going down at every setback. We bring in players who don’t play as well as they did for their previous clubs. Our coaching setup seems to be an old boy’s club.

There are occasional good runs and good signings, but on the whole there seems something fundamentally wrong inside the club. Until there is a big change at board level, with proper sports management people coming in, I can’t see any significant change.

Jim Bennings
122 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:12:02
Dave 113

You can't really keep blaming the last four managers though.

Managers are meant to come in and stamp their authority and playing style on a team, it's not like Carlo only got here last month.

Look at the state Southampton were in when Hassenhutl took over, hasnt taken him long to get a team looking like a team.

Leicester were a disgrace under Puel but look like Man City lite under Rodgers in just over a year.

I can't sit here and seriously criticise a man with Carlo Ancelotti's CV but results and team selection like today's are purely on him, the tippy tappy nonsense is what he wants the defenders to do, are they good enough to do it? No.

We all slagged off Allardyce, the football was mundane of course it was but what he did when he came in for the first 10 matches was completely simplify the basic art of defending, he earned a point at Anfield with a defence of Kenny, Martina, Williams and Holgate for Christ sake!

I expect a man with Carlo's experience to be able to send a team out there more capable of keeping a tighter defensive structure but right now it's a throwback to this time last year again.

Sean O´Hanlon
123 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:12:12
Sigurdsson can't even take free-kicks now. In fact the crossing today was abysmal.

I can just see the headlines next week: "Lookman scores against his old club."
George Cumiskey
124 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:12:18
Ajay what the hell have you been smoking ?
Sam Hoare
125 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:17:12
Everybody’s changing but I still feel the same.
Joe McMahon
126 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:18:14
Ajay, are you drunk or stoned?
Will Mabon
127 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:20:43
Roger, I would have written that the same way myself. I don't know what it is, but something fundamental is indeed awry. Something overarching that bears upon and compromises everything else below it. There are no guts, there is no soul.
Barry Rathbone
128 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:27:35
7 league games is a reasonable indicator of where we're going and once again the destination is trophyless mid-table.

Carlo and chums have no one to blame but themselves they were either too incompetent to see the urgency of the situation or plain naive. The summer window did not accomplish the necessary and the ghouls of Silva, Koeman and Allardyce are tapping him on the shoulder saying "at least you get a good pay off"

Alex Gray
129 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:29:06
My only positive is that all of carlos signings improve us. The sooner the rest of the squad bar a few are sold then we can start rebuilding. I just hope we can be in the top 6 cone January to attract better talent.
David Pearl
130 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:31:52
Im with Ajay but they need to wake up right now before the season is lost. Bernard played his best for a while but perhaps he will come inside and not Richarlison. At the back Holgate looked good with the ball at his feet but rusty. James left Coleman exposed but perhaps still not properly fit.

Questions have to be asked as to why we get rid of 2 forwards and spend 30 million on a defender for the future. Who makes those decisions?

Tony Twist
131 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:33:06
Nothing really changes. Pickford had his normal wobble, Siggy plays yet again it's like playing with ten men from the start when he is in the team and surprise surprise we lose. Second rate defending, second rate coaching and let's face it there is a general malaise with this team and this football club. There is and has been for years nothing that resembles a team, it's individuals and until that changes we will never amount to anything. it's mediocrity, create a strong team spirit, a successful way of playing then sprinkle some superstars in the mix then success will come.
Mike Gaynes
132 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:34:32
Well, at least the world now has reason to cheer a Blue victory, even if it didn't happen at Goodison.
Martin Mason
133 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:36:56
Just when for a while it looked as though Everton had been dragged up a level by the newcomers it turns out that the Everton squad magnetism dragged them back to their lower level? The truth? United were a far better team in midfield and defence and that is why they won and quite easily. I'd give anything to see Fernandez at Everton. Positives? Absolutely, Iwobi and Bernard played really well, DCL too but with no decent service. Mason was diabolical, why was he rushed back? He looked like a traffic cone today. Spineless? No, we did our best today, they were simply by far the better team. We have quality problems still and the solution really needs to come from within the club. We can't buy ourselves out of this.
Peter Dodds
134 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:37:47
James' lack of covering on the right is starting to cause problems and may have contributed to one of the goals. I can't help feeling he should start as a true No. 10 right behind DCL in a 4-4-1-1. When the opposition is in control then he just drops back a little. That all feels a little tighter than the current formation when we don't have the ball. Richie on the left and a speedy tricky winger on the right courtesy of the January window. Until then it'll have to be Iwobi, who covers better for Seamus than James.

Allan and Doucoure together - is it working or are they simply struggling to cover the ground vacated by the other midfielders? I do think there's an argument for replacing one with a more creative and pacey midfielder - again from January if poss. Offload at least one of Siggy/Gomes/Bernard at the same time to balance the books - though it sounded like Bernard played pretty well today.

On the plus side we have a realistic possibility of six points coming up from the next two games - IF we can recover some of the old form.

Darren Hind
135 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:38:07
Deeply depressing.

John Pierce
136 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:38:52
Richarlison coming back will probably resolve our attacking play. He’s integral, yet I’m pretty disappointed Carlo hasn’t a solution for his absence, actually very unimpressed.

However him returning won’t resolve our defending as a team. We may still outscore teams but are likely to lose tight affairs, ultimately we don’t have a No6. to sit and do the job to screen the back four and give the ball to better players. Is that person JP Gbamin? 👀

I don’t think neither Allan (no positional discipline) or Doucoure (asked to do too much covering for both James and Allan) are the answer. For example Fernandes schooled Allan all day exploiting his lack of discipline.

We will probably beat Fulham and Leeds but I doubt Carlo will fix the problem we have without the ball as a unit.

Will Mabon
137 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:42:51
"We will probably beat Fulham and Leeds..."

Not without a huge turn around, we won't.

Mike Gaynes
138 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:43:18
Peter #134, he naturally gravitates to the wing. Always has.
Mike Powell
139 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:44:12
Not much to say about that performance, it was just as bad as the last two games.We are nowhere near ready to challenge for a top six place, Don't know why I put myself through it, piss poor performance
Christy Ring
140 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:47:42
Gbamin is back in full training next week could be a huge addition if he can get his career finally started at Goodison
Peter Jansson
141 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:54:30
I don't trust Gbamin being a solution for anything. I hope I am wrong though.

But we need more speed, speed and speed.

Phil Smith
142 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:56:02
We actually lost that game due to Doucoure‘s finishing. Twice at the end he was in good positions to hit the target and he ballooned it, the second leading their 3rd. That’s papering over the cracks though. With Richy missing, once again this crying out for someone quick, with drive and movement. How the boss doesn’t see that player is Gordon, I don’t know. Finally dropped Gomes but for the wrong player, although the wee man played well for the first half an hour. Fuming at the at of the game. I can only hope that this international break has the reverse effect on our team of the previous one.
Paul Birmingham
143 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:57:39
Barry @106, epic, song, and it sums up the game today. I’m with you..

Everton, drives you to despair.

Tony Twist
144 Posted 07/11/2020 at 16:58:31
We desperately need a right winger, I think Siggy is only a bench player, same for Pickford and Mina and in Siggy's position I would play James. He can orchestrate the attacks with two from Gbamin, Doucoure and Allan to ensure we don't have a soft centre behind him.
Stan Schofield
145 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:00:12
I can't even be bothered discussing this match. But what I will say is Everton are very reliable. At raising us up then letting us down. As soon as the derby match ended, I thought, well that's another season buggered. It sounds very negative, but it's just acknowledging reality. The massive frustration of it is that we know that the performances CAN be a lot better, but we also know that they WON'T be. Sorry I can't muster anything more positive, but it just grinds you down eventually.

Midtable normality resumed.

Peter Jansson
146 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:02:32
Same problem as last year and the several years before that.
We lack speed in the midfield. Why cant any managers fix that? Doucoure, Allan and James are all good players and improved our team, but they all lack speed. Also now we lack speed on the rightwing position. No one is able to provide this.
Colin Malone
147 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:03:01
We come alive when Siggy got substituted for Iwobi. Give Iwobi credit, he had a go and that's what we all want from players at our club. Unfortunately Siggy fails in that department. His time at Everton is surely ended.
Jason Wilkinson
148 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:05:59
What is most alarming in our recent defeats is the shot ratio. 1 shot on target today. I think we had 3 at Newcastle and 2 at Saints.
Without a solid defence (we certainly don't have that) our best hope is to cause the opposition more problems at the other end. DCL will get goals as will Richy. What I'm not seeing is the midfield and full backs getting in on the act. Gomes, Allen & Doucouré do not look like contributing. Siggy is a shadow of the player we bought and James probably needs a little break to get back on song. Seamus & Digne are not getting into goal scoring positions either.
Let's hope the coming break gives our coaching staff a chance to re-evaluate how we can get more shots away instead of the slow predictable build up we've seen the last 3 games.
Kim Vivian
149 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:07:41
Mike - 139. That was nowhere like as bad as the last couple of games - except the result!
ManU actually defended pretty well in that second half to give our lads at least some credit.
Derek Taylor
150 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:08:49
You are only disappointed because you expected too much. This team will make top ten in a canter !
Si Turner
151 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:10:22
Another frustrating game. Like the toon, the manks were here for the taking today and we were too cautious and lacked quality breaking their low block.

The main reason for the poor performances in the last 3 games has been the lack of balance within the starting 11 which we had until we played the shite.

James needs runners to be effective which has been woefully lacking since Richi has been suspended and given our full backs bomb forward we need at least one of the three midfielders to hold position in defence to support the centre halves during quick transitions. Allan nor Doucoure are doing this and nearly always press the ball in front of them rather than hold their position when required.

I am confident we will beat Fulham (who are very poor) however I do have a concern that our current set up means our defensive unit is not solid enough to compete for top 6 and that is not solely down to Pickford.

Si Turner
152 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:11:40
Completely agree John (136)
Eddie Dunn
153 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:13:48
Stan- like you I'm feeling really fed-up.
The early form we showed has simply made this worse.
The team tried hard and I honestly think the defence struggled with the low sun in their eyes. Why Pickford did not put a cap on, I'll never understand.
The zonal marking has cost us once more. Basic errors, not cutting out crosses, not marking Fernandez etc.
We huffed and puffed but again only looked dangerous when we threw caution to the wind late on.
One shot on target.
Eddie Dunn
154 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:13:48
Stan- like you I'm feeling really fed-up.
The early form we showed has simply made this worse.
The team tried hard and I honestly think the defence struggled with the low sun in their eyes. Why Pickford did not put a cap on, I'll never understand.
The zonal marking has cost us once more. Basic errors, not cutting out crosses, not marking Fernandez etc.
We huffed and puffed but again only looked dangerous when we threw caution to the wind late on.
One shot on target.
Kevin Dyer
155 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:14:01
Sick after watching this but not entirely unexpected after all the talk re: Solskjaer maybe getting sacked after losing to us. The media have a hard-on for Pochettino and are desperate to have a "glamour" manager heading up Man United. Fact is, whatever Solskjaer's limitations he does set the team up to play well on the counter and the team can raise their game in pressure matches. Hence the flop against the Turkish team whilst walloping PSG and Leipzig. There's a disconnect between what the manager wants and what Woodward brings in, but they do have some very good players and one, in Fernandes who could play for any team. Even the maligned players such as Fred, or Lindeloth are actually at least decent and on their day, good players.

Us? We've bought, for the first time since Martinez' first season with a plan but the damage has been done over a number of years. FFP resrictions mean we cannot replace half the squad overnight, even if this were desirable. It has to be accomplished in stages and this summer was Stage One. Hopefully January will be Stage Two, but that will depend on who is obtainable and outgoings. Clearly we need to add quality options in several positions still.

Today? Well, I liked the lineup but it didn't work out. I think bringing back 3 players from injury backfired. Coleman was not ready and struggled; JJK would have been preferable. Holgate was lacking match sharpness (unsurprisingly), though he improved second half. In retrospect would've been better coming off the bench for a couple matches. James is clearly not right yet, hasn't been since the VVD foul. The other change, Bernard, played well and took his goal smartly. Pleased for the lad, who obviously wants to play and is focused and looks to make things happen. Our best player first half.

We struggled to get any quality balls into the box, or to support DCL with midfield runners. Our line was too deep, leaving gaps in midfield for Fernandes to exploit. We need to play a high(-er) line to allow Allan and Dacoure to win their battles; today they were chasing shadows. Iwobi was impressive when he came on, but atm I don't trust him to start. Saying that, I'd have preferred him playing instead of Sigurdsson, who looks finished now as a starter and should be moved out in January, if there's any takers.

This run of games has been a disaster, in terms of suspensions and injuries. Hopefully the international break will allow a couple of players to get fit, we refocus as we then have 3 games to come where we should be aiming at maximum points.

I think top 6 is still a reality but feel we need to add a couple of quality players in January; a forward option (maybe Milik) and a wide attacker, preferably on the right, or someone like Lozano who can play both wings.

Geoff Williams
156 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:17:06
Watching Everton over the last four games one would have to say Ancelloti has been found wanting. Newcastle and Utd were there for the taking but we completely capitulated against them. Southampton have proved that they are a half decent team and Liverpool are Liverpool so maybe the results against them should not cause too much angst. I want our manager to prove that he is the manager many of you think he is.
Robert Williams
157 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:18:03
Well at least Biden seems to have the winning formula!!
Anthony Murphy
158 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:22:34
Let’s hope Richarlson can stay fit and trouble free for the rest of the season because without him, we are nothing. We need to address a lot of issues, but most of all, we need more variety in the final third. We are slow and predictable without Richarlson and lack an alternative route to goal bar the cross from either wing looking for the head of DCL.

On a related note, it was also depressing today watching DCL break forward and having no one in support and having to win a corner as the best outcome he could achieve - no one near him.

Kevin Dyer
159 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:25:47
#156 Geoff - United were there for the taking according to the Press. Their away form (minus the recent game in Turkey) is actually very good. It is at home they struggle as they have probelms playing against defensive teams. Arsenal set up to exploit this, whereas Leiplzig played on the front foot and got taken apart with counters. Carlo was clearly aware of this hence why we sat deep, but we lacked the personal to play counterattack without Richy. DCL gets isolated and the midfield is stretched.
Pat Kelly
160 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:29:03
By the end of this season Doucoure will be on the ever growing list of players we need shut of. James will have played about half the season and scored 3 goals and two assists. Allan will be bollixed. Richie will have done a deal to leave. Ancelotti will be hoping Italy is allowing flights in from England. Gbamin will be in recovery. Delph will still be working from home. And Gordon will be keeping the bench warm.
Kevin Dyer
161 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:29:48
Other thoughts: we are not getting the best out of Dacoure. Whatever the role he's being asked to play is not really suiting him. Only late in the game did he get forward, as a more box-to-box option. Allan probably our best player today. We need a third option in midfield if we are going to continue with 4-3-3 because neither Gomes or Sigurdsson are doing it. I'd be inclined to give Davies a run, at least until Gbamin is match fit.

Other option is to try 4-2-3-1 with maybe Iwobi in front of Allan/Dacoure, but unsure how this would work.

Kevin Dyer
162 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:30:41
#160 Pat - that'd be hard to accomplish as James already has 3 goals and 3 assists. Cheer up man!
Paul Birmingham
163 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:30:45
The u18s, lost 2-0, away to United, another bad day at the office..

Hopefully the club, will show some character and bounce back, this week.

Let’s hope Richarlisons, return, sees a return to winning ways, at Fulham.

Ian Riley
164 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:31:40
Amen! An international break! We are just very average!
Leighton Cooper
165 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:46:19
Spirit of the blues and all that seems a lifetime ago already.
Robert Tressell
166 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:48:40
Our fully fit first 11 is pretty good. Only the Sigurdsson / Gomes position is really a problem because of the lack of pace, creativity and goals. However, without Richarlison then we see massive problems.

Rodriguez and Bernard, with no real penetration of their own, have no pace / movement elsewhere in the team to find with their good quality. Sigurdsson / Gomes continue to be passengers.

Despite having never been a fan of Walcott or Bolasie, they would at least provide us with something to complement Rodriguez instead of more of the same. It would have the opposition running back towards their goal instead of watching everything unfold at a snail's pace in front of them.

Quite what Gordon has to do to get a game I do not know. He was the best of a bad bunch after the restart - and has done well against admittedly poor opposition in the cups.

To me, I think it's got to the point where we just can't get a performance out of Sigurdsson or Gomes. We need to go with the more Gordon and Iwobi, accept they are erratic, but do so in the knowledge that they do at least move about a bit and create passing opportunities for Rodriguez.

Tony Hill
167 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:51:04
Play James just behind DCL and play Gordon on the right.
Brian Hennessy
168 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:56:17
Sigurdsson was useless again which comes as no surprise. However the biggest concern for me at the moment are the performances of Allan and Doucoure over the last 4 games. They offer nothing going forward, no creative passing, no assists and neither look like they have a hope in hell of scoring a goal.
Trevor Peers
169 Posted 07/11/2020 at 17:59:46
Someone at Everton made an embarrassing cardinal mistake in loaning out two forwards and not replacing them, Carlo will take responsibility but that might not be the whole story. Maybe Brands had to balance the books.

We looked OK at times today but never caused thier goalkeeper any problems. No wingers with pace, no goal threat, no chances for DLC it all equals only one thing no fcking points.

Rob Dolby
170 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:03:22
I thought that it was a much improved performance compared to our last 2 outings.

Fernandez was the difference today. He ghosted into space without anyone picking him up for the entire game.

UTD have goal threats up top and in midfield. We had 1 player who is scoring whilst we are almost surprised if any of our other players score.

Bernard had his best game under Ancelotti linking up well with Digne just a shame that our half chances fell to players that just don't know how to find the back of the net. Dacoure 2 chances near the end looked like he had never kicked a ball before in his life. Goals win games and we just don't score enough outside of Richarleson or DCL.

Our formation or game plan was far too open. It would have been a decent game for the neutral.

What has happened to Sigurdssons delivery from set pieces. Another anonymous game for the 45m man.

Mike Price
171 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:06:20
Ancelotti doesn’t build teams, he takes over and manages groups of superstars and ready made winners. He’s not a good fit for us, his name may attract a few players but he isn’t an energetic presence or a great tactician. His selections and inability to see that we need pace is worrying.
No supporters at Goodison is also a worry. I’ve always felt our home fan base would always drive us forward in a crisis, but without them our play lacks urgency and could lead to us spiralling. No way would they be allowed to go from an attack to backwards passes all the way back to our goalie.
The whole Carlo factor has a bit of the Emperor’s new clothes about it.
Jack Convery
172 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:08:57
Carlo reminds me of Robin Williams in the film Awakenings - got the patients well and then they relapsed and that was that.
Terry Farrell
173 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:12:50
Kev I must have watched a different game. I thought Seamus was excellent and pushed forward like hell to make something happen whilst being in control at the back. the guy is class
Roger Helm
174 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:13:28
If I was a Sunday league manager I would say we have three good players who can score - Richie, DCL and James - so we need seven super-fit yard dogs whose only job is to win the ball and give it to one of these three. Simple.
John Pierce
175 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:17:07
Coleman spent more time feuding with Fernandes rather than defending well. His defending for the first goal was terrible. Both goals down our right, it’s not the first time

Robert Tressell
176 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:24:15
Mike, you're right. It's a long time since Ancelotti has built a team. But he certainly knows how. The disadvantage we have is that we have about the 6th or 7th biggest budget in the division. Allied to that, we have about the 8th or 9th best squad in the division. Gaining ground on those above us is therefore painfully slow.

3 losses on the trot have taken place because we cannot move up the pitch fast enough.

It'll get better obviously when Richarlison is back. But it beggars belief that we can still be so reliant on him.

And it's just so sad that we're behaving like a little club again that doesn't have the balls to take a game to the opposition.

Tony Hill
177 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:29:34
Funny thing is that Allan showed he does have pace, he kept up comfortably with Rashford.

Deep fucking breath again. We must stay calm. This is a true test of Ancelotti's credentials both as a tactician and man-manager because he must start thinking radically on both fronts. He must show craft and nerve and get the players to do the same. Our heads have gone for the moment.

Of course, we lost three straight games in our title winning season of 86-87, one of them against Charlton if memory serves. Obviously, a good omen.

Peter Mills
178 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:32:15
The team went out with a game plan and stuck to it superbly. Every player ran themselves into the ground, tackled everything in sight, played skilful football, overcame adversity, then somehow won the game for a stunning result.

If only Everton could have done what Marine just did at Colchester.

Martin Berry
179 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:32:47
We played better than the last two matches but yet again we fail to provide any service to Domonic, we will not win matches until this is rectified, surely Carlo can see that this needs addressing.
A word in praise of Iwobi, he did create more chances when he came on and looked the most likely for us to make things happen.
Peter Mills
180 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:33:41
Please remember- no follow-up comments!
John Raftery
181 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:33:43
Losing Richarlison is a bit like losing two players. He is our best attacking player able to drag the opposition back into their own half as well as provide a scoring threat. He is also one of our best defensive players, often making more tackles than his team mates. Without him the midfield are short of options for a forward pass and immediately under pressure when possession is lost.

Oliver Molloy
182 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:38:57
We are slipping into a predictable style of play that makes it easy for our opponents.
Too slow in the middle of the park and I wouldn't have the iceman start, Sigurdsson just makes us even slower.
Calamity once again demonstrates why I call him this.
People on here saying they thought Iwobi did well when he came on, seriously ?
I can't stand players who are afraid to tackle and that sums him up.
Rodriquez bollocks must still be bollocked for he was shite today also, we all knew he wouldn't do a lot of tracking back, but for fuck sake come on !
Allan and Doucoure have gone from looking great signings to bang average, with the latter needing to spend time learning how to shoot.
There were times today when they couldn't play a simple 10 yard pass - diabolical.
I really don't know why I am upset because deep inside I thought we would lose before the whistle blew - it's called being an Evertonian - another weekend of fucking misery for us all.

If a manager like Ancelotti can not get a shift out of these boys Moshiri is totally fucked !

Kunal Desai
183 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:39:22
Carlo needs to looking at getting back to basics. He knows what it takes to win scrappy gamds 1-0. Revert back to becoming tough to beat and work on that in training. Conceding 2 goals a game for any is surely unheard of whereever he has managed.

He needs to bring in 1 or 2 option upfront in Jan, even if its on loan and then in the sumer another 4 or 5 players. Goalkeeper, RB and RW has to be priority. Address some much needed pace in the forward areas.

Carlo needs the next two windows to sort this out and bring his own players in.

Kevin Dyer
184 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:42:06
#173 Terry - assuming that comment was for me -Coleman gave it his all, as usual but was not the same player from early games. No link up and overlaps with James, slow to close down the crosses for both goals. He bombed forward but struggled to get back. Clearly not 100% and at this stage of his career needs to be 100 to be effective. Ancelotti doesn't rate Kenny so rushed Seamus back. Kenny isn't the answer, though in truth the formation vs Newcastle didn't give him a chance. Would've been better to rest Coleman.
Mal van Schaick
185 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:44:29
What is Ancelotti doing making six changes. Mina should of played, he’s been consistent, Holgate should have to fight for his place. I’ve gone from top four, to top six and now to top ten. What a mess up!
Joe McMahon
186 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:47:48
Mike @171, agree with Carlo managing the best players in ready made squads, but Goodison home fans driving us forward?

I'm not so sure, many home games over decades and certainly against Liverpool the Everton players just shove lube up their arses and bend over.

Dave Abrahams
187 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:50:41
Fourteen goals conceded in eight league games, the midfield plays one man short every game,the central defence is still very poor and static, Holgate has an excuse it was his first start in quite a while, the goalkeeper wasn’t at fault today but we all know his limitations. Poor passing, lack of movement and complete lack of pace are still no better than they have been for a long time,so we wait for January and see what happens in the transfer window, might snatch a few points between now and then to keep us in the top half.
Barry Rathbone
188 Posted 07/11/2020 at 18:53:09
To protect the naive from raised hopes after a purple patch we need to change our name to "Falsedawn Rovers" and apply a yellow streak down the spine of the shirts. Keeping it real will prevent depression from the get-go.
Pat Kelly
189 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:00:14
Post match comment from Ancelotti

"We had this bad moment and we have to be focused"

Marco Silva rides again.

Ralph Basnett
190 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:09:08
I’m convincing myself that Carlo has been told he still needs to get rid of some of the deadwood so pu them in the shop window.

This is a marathon and Carlo sees getting rid of two big salaries (Siggi and Bernard and Iwobi) is how this will be done.

The only way to do it is to put them in the shop window (play them) and hope this is not to the detriment of the team, at the moment it is.

We need a settled defence and now that Holgate is back we may see this.

We need pace in the middle and dropping Siggi for Richarlison will bring this but I would also swap Davies for Bernard.

All teams in the prem have pace except us!!!!!

What little we have we need to use.

Stan Schofield
191 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:13:00
Barry@188: A couple of weeks ago I told you to get a grip when you indicated that some of us had been getting a bit too excited about the decent start. I hereby apologise for telling you that.

Unfortunately, I am one of those naive Evertonians who let their hopes get raised. I should know better at my age, I'm taken in every time, which is utterly daft because at the back of my mind there is always this nagging anticipation of eventual disappointment.

Tommy Carter
192 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:18:22
Strange times at Everton Football Club once again.

Where to start?
Allan obviously comes with good pedigree and a great reputation. If I am correct he’s been signed as our midfield stopper. In other words his specialism is the defensive side of the midfield game and we should t expect anything from him going forward.

In that event, he should be in the ideal position to cover the advances of Bruno Fernandes. Today, he wasn’t. Just prior to his first goal Bruno had two opportunities presented to him in acres of space to pull the trigger. Allan was nowhere near on either occasion. Just as he was nowhere near the bursting run the Portuguese man made for his first goal.

My point is, if Allan isn’t giving us defensive dominance then what is he giving us?

Doucoure I’m afraid is full of energy but low on quality. He looked to me at Watford as a bog standard athletic premier league midfield player. He’s very much been that in an Everton shirt.

I think the Holgate start obviously says as much about Yerry as it does about Holgate. The Englishman started today and I felt that he should’ve at least been anticipating the Bruno header and challenging for it. And for the second goal his positioning was wrong again.

Godfrey deserves a chance to put his best foot forward and make a start at centre back.

Pickford: simple. Olsen should start the next game game.

Sigurdsson. No more game time for the icelander.

Iwobi. Don’t rate him but took his chance today. Enough to stay in contention.

So deflated.

Billy Dawber
193 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:19:41
Laughable yet again. A team comes from playing in Europe on Thursday, we have a week of guessing how many we are going to win by and then we are given the run around. Couldn't make it up. Spineless, embarrassing, clueless fuckers the lot of them.

At this rate, we will be in the bottom 3 in January. Did someone say Carlos is the man, needs a long hard look in the mirror I think. Another weekend ruined but aye this is being an Evertonian. 2 weeks off now to pick up more injuries. Onwards and downwards, me thinks.

Will Mabon
194 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:23:24
I don't hold with this shop window stuff, Ralph. If we are selling them, we don't want them, which is a rather unavoidable conclusion in itself. Risking the result by deliberately playing anyone considered detrimental to the team performance - that would be mighty questionable.

Anyone interested in any of our cast-offs will be well aware of what they're about.

In the case of Sigurdsson anyway, we'll get less the more is seen of him.

Tony Everan
195 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:27:32
We need a better organised midfield, they are not working well together. Unfortunately we have 3 senior players who are slow and not contributing anywhere near enough to the team effort. Their transfer fees and wages seem to force their inclusion over common sense and reality.

Sigurdsson tries but his legs have gone. He hasn’t the mobility, pace, ability to rapidly close down or tackle. He must then be on the pitch for his contribution to the attack ? In the last 43 Premier League games he has scored two goals (one a penalty), his assists stand at 4, one in every ten or eleven games. Even his dead ball ability is becoming suspect. James Rodriguez or Digne are probably better at it.

Why are we starting with him week after week ? No wonder we have problems when he is contributing next to nothing. A Premier League team cannot carry passengers and get away with it.

Gomes and Delph didn’t feature today, but Gomes hasn’t been much better, Delph maybe needs more games, but he is in this category too.

Carlo Ancelotti has to wake up and smell the coffee with regards players who are weakening the team for their inclusion.

Sean Kelly
196 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:36:00
I'm sitting here wondering where the 27+ points are coming from for safety. The bubble has burst. Typical Everton build up your expectations and then the bubble get burst with a bang. We do not have the mentality to sustain a decent run. The carthorses that are Sigurdsson I Iwobi and Pickford just don't give a shit. Coleman is finished and Bernard is not fit for this league.

Carlo can't polish a turd but he's not even looking for the shovel to fuck them out. We have entitled players at this club that have consistently drained the life out of any decent players we bring in. It's a fucking cancer, folks. Cut it out or suffer the consequences.

Will Mabon
197 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:36:32
Tony, no "Probably" about it re. dead ball delivery. James much better, Digne at least as good. We've seen it from Sigurdsson but it's oh-so rare now.

Delph is in your category, and is apparently now injured, again.

Kevin Murray
198 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:42:34
I feel Ancelotti will get, and should do, some slack in all this; however, he is rather worryingly resembling past managers with some of his work.

Picking the more experienced 'better footballers' in a system that doesn't suit and not using the younger players with more energy, pace and aggression.

Perhaps if he must pick these players maybe a change of system to a 3-5-2 would be best? The attacking threat we have is Coleman and Digne anyway and we can then play 2 up top, Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison. James in behind them with Allan and Doucouré in midfield?

It is, however, worrying that the same system appears to be used time and time again with mostly the same players and that's 3 losses and 1 draw out of the last 4.

The international break coming at a good time this time.

Raymond Fox
199 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:43:22
Get used to middle of the table again, chaps.

Who'd be an Evertonian!

I'm not suprised we lost, just the manner of it.

Jerome Shields
200 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:46:06
Kunai #183,

I agree, the selection and formations being wrong in this past three games. But most of all, the advances in basic individual coaching by Ancelotti have been lost as a result. Certain players and their poor performances are being allowed to influence the team tempo, tactics and formation.

The resulting weaknesses have been exposed in the last three games. Everton are currently playing as they did under Silva, which was always player-dictated.

Tommy Carter
201 Posted 07/11/2020 at 19:59:04
@ Kevin & Billy

If you think Carlo is the problem then you really and genuinely have absolutely no clue about football.

I’m absolutely aghast at anybody questioning Ancelotti.

It’s laughable. You just be deranged.

Get rid of Ancelotti, one of the most decorated coaches in the history of the game. One of only 10 managers to have won a Premier League title.

Sack him. Who comes on and does better??????

Klopp or Simeone and that’s about it. And even then we’re talking some of the best managers in the history of the game.

The guy has inherited a squad full of dross.

Mike Oates
202 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:00:15
From an opening of 4 wins on the bounce, but to be fair we were never ever completely on top in any of those games. James, new to the PL came in and ran the show, and the likes of Digne, Richarlison and DCL were in tandem with James’s strengths. The Liverpool game we battled well and didn’t deserve to win but could of. But the damage was done with the loss of Richarlison and the injuries to Allan and James.

The teams now target our weakness, namely our right hand side where initially Godfrey was left isolated, then Kenny, and today Coleman - all because James repeatedly and Gomes last week don’t give our full backs any cover at all. Unfortunately James is a luxury you can’t afford, as a winger, as today they need to track the opposition full backs.

We’re not utilising our purchases well at the moment, Allan was a Hunter gatherer at Napoli, all over the place pressing, now used as a No 6 deep lying covering our brittle defence. Doucoure was box to box, occasional goal scorer at Watford, now caught between covering James, doing the work of Siggy or Gomes and never supporting DCL. Neither Doucoure or Allan did a job on Fernandez today, he jinked between the lines and both left him in acres of space and he destroyed us.

We desperately need a fit, Gbamin, a true No 6, one who would then allow Allan and Doucoure to get on with their own specialist games. Until then we can only hope after today, Holgate is pushed into it with Mina/ Keane/Godfrey as our centre half’s.

If we can get a No6 working well, Doucoure and Allan further up and then allow James the freedom as a No 10, feeding Richarlison, DCL and hopefully Gordon as replacement provided Ancelotti gives him a chance. Gordon must be wondering how he’s been left behind especially when Tosun gets on the bench ahead of him. Ancelotti can’t be allowed to state that’s it not his job to develop young talent - Brands needs to step in here and question Ancelotti on Gordon’s complete lack of game time.

And finally Ancelotti - to me and many others you seem to be lost at the moment with poor team selections, poor team tactics, poor use of substitutes - please show us how you have developed teams to regularly parade around the European scene. One loss, ok, two losses raises questions, 3 losses leads to questioning his ability.

Bill Gall
203 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:07:32
We all can criticize after a game, and say who should have played and who should not play, but today it was the defenders who allowed the first 2 goals with poor defending and one of them was a player who people have been saying we needed him back as soon as possible to strengthen up the defense.

Yes, we miss Richarlison, but Bernard done what he was asked to do: helped Digne and scored a goal. James today was a luxury who looked as he was unfit.

Doucoure was expected to be on the team sheet today; what wasn't expected was he missed 2 chances to score with 1 he should never have missed. We only had Mina missing from previous 2 games who received a lot of criticism for his performances and likewise Gomes.

There are no easy games in this league and you have to have a full squad to compete, and the difference was shown when we bring on Tosun they bring on Pogba.

Man Utd were not there for the taking, they were there to compete, and the reality was they competed better than Everton, and that's what makes this result so scary.

Eddie Dunn
204 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:10:21
Fernandes scored 2 and assisted one, without hism United were just like us. Richarlison papers over our cracks in a similar way.

It's not all doom and gloom but tactically we got done again. We tried to sit deep but got caught on the crosses. It ruined our gameplan and, just like at Southampton and Newcastle, we hadn't the nous to turn it around.

Richarlison will be on his merry way next summer so we need to find another way to win.

Paul Birmingham
205 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:10:36
John@181, spot on, in my view. To be so dependent and effective when one player plays, and on the flip side, to look like a team with no out let, when he (Richarlison) doesn’t play, is a massive issue.

No team should be dependent on one player, but this Everton squad is.

Hopefully as some people have had said on the threads today, may be this international break will do Everton a favour.

Football, Its in the mind, some times a team needs the guile to go route one, as well as play slick inter passing football, when on form.

To do this you need a boss on the park.

And to have a good boss’s on the park, you need good verbal communication on the park.

Today I hope this is a harsh lesson the players and Carlo will learn from. The whole team must start taking more responsibility, as at times today aside to standing off, no one was barking orders.

Two soft avoidable goals, and getting mugged for the third goal.

Down to confidence, but today we played into a poor United team hands.

Down to the Cottage, hopefully we can erase this and our last performance down there. At the time we were on a three ga e run of wins, I recall.

Everton, it’s, time, to get rejuvenated, please.

John Boon
206 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:14:11
Sometimes after watching Everton, I feel angry and disappointed, but today I just feel "Numb". However, I am more likely to side with Ajay (97 plus a few more) than those who have already abandoned ship. I did not think this was a day when the whole team played badly. It does not seem to matter who we put together at centre-back, one or both are always likely to make a mistake.

We all see games differently. I thought Coleman, Digne, Calvert-Lewin, Bernard, Doucoure and Iwobi all showed a lot of effort. Agreed that Doucouré should have scored. We just don't seem to have any sharp shooters. I also would like to see Olsen given a run. We lost due to really poor marking and, despite an early lead, we did not try to push on with that advantage.

We have to maintain faith with Ancelotti. As poor as three defeats in a row feels, hopefully it will give stimulus for improvement. We have just spent a lot of money on another centre-back. Play him please. Of all the new players, Allan has been the most disappointing from my perspective. But I am still prepared to give him time.

As a long time Evertonian now living 20 minutes from the US border, my disappointment was somewhat tempered by Biden winning the Election. Small consolation but at least it may have more long time positive consequences than Everton losing to Man Utd.

On the other hand, Everton winning is always appreciated far more than anything else. COYB get back to winning and keep me and all true Blues happy. We have been patient far too long.

Question: Does Pickford wear boxing gloves during game practices?

Jonathan Tasker
207 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:15:03
Carlo is entirely the wrong fit. Successfully getting big teams to win trophies bears zero relevance to managing Everton.

Having said that, nobody will succeed at Everton under the current curse of Kenwright.

How's the new ground coming along? Covid-19 allows for a very convenient Get Out of Jail Free card.

Ciarán McGlone
208 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:16:39
A couple of things:

James can't play on the wing... he leaves the full back exposed continually – play him as a Number 10.

Doucouré was an odd signing... average.

Sigurdsson... take his locker from him.

Steavey Buckley
209 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:17:00
The last transfer window turned out not to be as good as first thought, Everton now have 5 centre-halves, but only one of two players available today who can score goals. Yet, Everton allowed 2 attacking players go out on loan, but with no replacements.

Yet, instead, acquired another centre-half at £23 million, money that would have been better spent on attacking players, because Calvert-Lewin must be fed up with not receiving any service 3 games in a row.

Eddie Dunn
210 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:23:52
Billy 193, a minor point – Man Utd played on Wednesday.
Barry Rathbone
212 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:51:16
Stan @191

I don't have many redeeming qualities but I am objective in analysis and this club is run like an amateur dramatics society compared to others exhibiting the hard edge professionalism of Broadway shows.

Be great if they would prove me wrong but, year-in & year-out, they fail to do the necessary... and here we are, 7 games into a season doing the usual of leaning on a handful of good players amidst a sea of dross.

It is a recipe for mediocrity but understandably the heart rules the head in such matters. After all, we all desperately want the club to succeed.

Tommy Carter
213 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:51:18
Cíaran @208,

It's interesting. Allan and James appear to be very much Carlo signings. Doucouré and Godfrey however don't.

The Doucouré one for me is very much like when we got Iwobi. I thought maybe there was something I hadn't seen and maybe I was wrong.

Saw a tweet tonight about the combined cost of Iwobi, Cenk and Sigurdsson. Feel a bit sick about it all to be honest as I don't mind us wasting the money trying to get it right as long as it's sustainable but I get the really horrible and real feeling that it isn't

Paul Birmingham
214 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:52:54
Let’s get the full squad fit and available, and by Fulham bar JP G, that should be the case. Let’s hope JP G, can add some spine to the team.

The last x3 games, have confirmed the limitations of the squad, and had confirmed more or less bar miracles, that there’s an ensemble of dead wood to move on.

No easy task. Carlo for me, the last x3 games must take accountability, but also this confirms that some players aren’t up for it.

We all have our views, on the players, respectfully right, but todays game was, lost as we gave them too much respect, and became too timid, and didn’t have the belief or confidence, to get the shots off, when we could! And wasted every dead ball today.

No genuine out let for fast interplay passing up the park, today by Everton, so we helped United, supported by a referee and lines men, and combined to give the game to United on a plate.

No excuses for not competing and not believing.

Today United, eclipsed the RS, in the diving and feigning antics. The referee today and his officials, should be reported for bringing the game into disrepute for not sending off Fernandez for multiple diving and late tackles and also Maguire, for a straight red, on Diane. And being honest Pickford, could have seen red as well, but he was also impeded in the challenge, by Maguire.

We have a good manager, a proven manager, and until we get squad strength in depth and off load our dead wood and sick notes, this is the way it will be.

But there should be more substance and fight.

Pioneering the route map for EFC, at any level is not easy, and for Carlo, it’s the Jacques Cousteau, period, in terms of sussing the players and the squad limitations.

I can’t wait to get United back before Christmas in the Carabou, and beat them, and beat them well.

But between now and then, the squad needs to dig deep, and learn how to fight out of a corner.

The curse of the RS, or not, more grit and fight in every position must be shown, and by every player starting at Fulham.

Dan Nulty
215 Posted 07/11/2020 at 20:56:22
I think these last 3 games have finally brought it home to me how important Richarlison is to our whole attacking play. I'm loathe to like him because he looks like such a miserable git every game but we have really missed him.

Without him it is so much easier to defend against our slow players. Right sided Centre half doesn't get dragged across to protect the full back's inside shoulder for when he steps inside. Means DCL invariably has 2 centre halves to try and break free from.

Siggy offers absolutely nothing unless it is from a dead ball. He doesn't effect the game in any way unless he scores or creates a goal. Bit like Alli for Tottenham but less effective.

Bernard played well in large parts of the game and that surprised me. We really need some pace and options off the bench with pace. Moshiri's spends can't be over otherwise we will need to be really lucky with injury and suspensions.

Derek Knox
216 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:14:00
Haven't posted up to now post match, because I felt gutted, even verging on feeling ill, what is it with Everton, we have had several Managers, different players, yet the mentality seems the same. Or should I say, lack of it following a defeat or two.

We started fairly well in what was a scrappy affair from both sides, but once we got the goal, I thought 'here we go', but no! I said on the Live Forum like in many matches before, " we are giving these too much room " and lo and behold they score. Their tails go hope and our heads went down.

An all too familiar pattern, reading the posts before there were calls for, play so and so etc, I don't think it would have mattered who we played today, apart from Richie, they don't have the nous to win a game.

Dave Brierley
217 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:16:09
Derek 150. A ray of light in this morass of doom and gloom.

I sometimes despair of some of the guys on here. It's kind of childlike. When things go wrong most of them hit out at all and sundry finding fault and failure in pretty well everything Everton.

JT (the new Don) @ 207 pretty well sums it all up. The fault lies with Carlo, Kenwright and of course Bramley Moore will never happen.

Jesus, I'm so glad to self isolate from some of you guys.

One of the best Football Managers in the history of this game will get it right under the stewardship of the Everton Board. It will take a bit of time.

If changing a problematic business were that easy, most of you guys would be a helluva lot more successful than you are. A bit of advice. Think before you drink/type.

Mike Oates
218 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:18:46
Just to rub salt in - Mosie Kean just scored a wonderful 25yd shot. Who lets him go when we have no cover for Richarlison or DCL, no one Ancelotti trusts, ie poor Gordon or Simms
Andy Crooks
219 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:20:17
Once again we are forced to base our hopes on a long term injured player. JP G is our possible salvation based entirely on the fact that he has not had a chance to demonstrate that he has the potential to be as shit as the rest of them.

Being an Evertonian has built my character for many years. It has made me a glass half empty, miserable, cynical curmudgeon. Thanks to the lads for another shite Saturday. We can always rely on you.

I would love to know how many of them are as gutted as we are. You know what, I really doubt they are too bothered. I don't want to hear from Carlo or Seamus or any of them. I want them to shut the fuck up and earn their money.

Brian Murray
220 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:30:49
Am I missing something or is a player picked on merit, not on reputation!

The goalie Olsen was picked and played well at Newcastle, doing things we have been crying out for, like coming out and commanding his area and not dropping innocuous crosses or parrying the ball out to the onrushing forwards.

All we got from Carlo was a slight shrug of shoulders and a vague comment about Pickford needing a rest. Try and be ruthless, mate, or your CV will be dragged down to our level.

Paul Birmingham
221 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:30:53
Dave,@217, well presented and this Everton, project is a long term epic, and will take several good transfer windows to fix.

The disappointment today, is massive, x3 games, it’s how this squad can bounce back.

Next time, out and victory at Fulham.

Stephen Tyler
222 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:30:54
And Kean has scored again for PSG.
Barry Jones
223 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:33:33
Once Sigurdsson went off and Iwobi came on, we looked a lot better going forward, Suddenly, we had 11 men and not the passenger in the #10 shirt. Iwobi did more in his first 5 minutes than Sigurdsson had done in the previous 65 minutes. And Tosun WTF?

It baffles me that supposedly world class managers cannot see the obvious.

Christy Ring
224 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:45:15
We got rid of Kean, no replacement, and now Tosun is the man, last season, Carlo sent him on loan, can't understand?
Jonathan Tasker
225 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:53:38
Dave Brierley 217
Forgive me but when you say I’m the new Don, what does that mean ?
There’s absolutely nothing positive in anything that’s going on with the club.
It’s now 25 years since the club has won anything.
If you can point to anything good, please do let me know.
Carlo is not the manager we need.
The owners still haven’t got a clue.
The players are beyond useless and there’s no new ground.
Please let me know if I’ve missed anything.
The last three performances have been a disgrace.
Will Mabon
226 Posted 07/11/2020 at 21:56:39
Christy, he was sent on loan for final honing into the slick machine you saw today.
Terry Nolan
227 Posted 07/11/2020 at 22:00:46
Manc’s better side today had too much time and space in front of Everton defence any team with that amount of possession will kill you and that’s what they did.

Siggy should never wear blue shirt again brings absolutely nothing to team just a passenger though out the game like playing with man short every time he plays same could be said about Rodriguez both woeful but at least Rodriguez might not have been fit.

1 shot on goal in 95 minutes ain’t going to win you games massive mistake not signing striker during loan transfer window..

Brian Wilkinson
228 Posted 07/11/2020 at 22:13:01
Barry@223 has it spot on, hate to say it or single anyone out, but Siggerson is a passenger, every ball that comes to him is then slowed down, with no drive forward, no forward looking passes and will not even go in on a 60/40 tackle in his favour.

At times Tom Davies took stick, but at least that guy will put a tackle in and try and go past players.

I know Rodriguez is not known for sprinting, but he can play a through ball a 50 yard pass and put players on the front foot, this is something that Siggerson is not offering.

Plenty other areas need working on, but for now, playing Siggerson is killing us, surely Tom Davies or Anthony Gordon have to be given a starting place, after the International break.

Jerome Shields
229 Posted 07/11/2020 at 22:23:01

I think the plan was to keep Kean, but his agent must have arranged a loan with PSG and he was determined to go. I doubt he will be back. As for Tosun he won't be any use, unless final third play improves way beyond current levels.

I find it hard to get my head around it as well. I was hoping for better.

Don Alexander
230 Posted 07/11/2020 at 22:42:29
Jonathan (#225 and elsewhere), I think Dave's alluding to me - he spelt out on a recent thread that he finds perpetual blame for the miasma generated, and worsening, by Kenwright being chairman difficult to read.

People who can't/won't attribute massive responsibility to Kenwright, period, makes me think if fan bases had a "Masochist of the Quarter Century" award it'd be in our permanent possession, period.

Floundering around sequentially blaming managers and players, whilst understandable on a day like today, completely fails to address the poison that's been consuming our club from boardroom to Finch Farm ever since the year when the British record transfer fee was a mere £7mill.

Mike Price
231 Posted 07/11/2020 at 22:48:12
Tosun is one of the worst players I’ve ever seen at Everton. Just our luck that he got injured at Palace before we could get rid.
Brands better start buying pace in January or we’re in trouble. He could have signed Lamptey for 3 million, missed Zaha again and didn’t think we needed Josh King. Not sure I’ve seen rapid pace in Godfrey either. Why do we keep making the same ridiculous mistakes with our recruitment and that’s management as well as players.
David Connor
232 Posted 07/11/2020 at 22:50:43
I had real hopes for Doucouré when he signed from Watford but, by what I've seen so far, he is just another expensive yard dog. Iwobi, Sigurdsson, Doucoure... £100 million spunked on absolute shite. That sums up Everton of recent seasons.

Pathetic performance from our overpaid overated so-called footballers. What a bloody discrace we are. Top 4? Be closer to bottom 4 if we carry on with this calibre of performance much longer.

So disheartening following Everton. But we live in hope. Like we have for well over two decades. How much longer do we have to wait for some joy???

Stan Michaels
233 Posted 07/11/2020 at 22:57:17
Pickford - Cannot blame for the goals today. But he does need to be dropped. Liability and ecstatic. Give Olsen a few games.

Coleman - Better than Kenny in general. Thats it. Right back needed.

Keane - Poor today. Slow and not good enough.

Holgate - Clearly not fit to have started this game.

Digne - Our best defender today. Yet did nothing spectacular.

Allan - Not a defensive midfielder.

Doucoure - Just a passenger on the pitch today.

Sigurdsson - Never want to see this man in an Everton shirt again. What a waste of money he is. 45 Million pound "creative" midfielder, yet did not play a single pass into DCL. Might as well start the game with ten men instead of starting him the fucking ghost. Get rid.

James - Clearly was not 100%. The fact that he is our creative player on the pitch and he is asking the bench to be substituted with 20 minutes to go when 2-1 down.

DCL - Third game on the bounce I feel for him. Feeding off scraps again. Would not surprise nor would I blame them, if him and Richarlison left in the summer.

Bernard - Got the goal, look lively first half an hour then proved he is too weak for this league.

As for that bench today. If any Everton fan thinks we can get into European football with a bench of Iwobi, Davies, Tosun and Gomes. Then they're deluded.

Club needs to get a grip ASAP. Just gonna wait and see in the papers on Monday morning either Coleman or Keane giving the old "it was not good enough" or the old "we'll come back next game" Do the fucking talking on the pitch lads!!!! Fans or no fans at the ground. The supporters at Everton still demand "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum" not "let's have a go and see what happens"

Big talk saying we want to compete with the big boys in the Echo or Sky. DO THE TALKING ON THE PITCH FFS!!!!

Billy Dawber
234 Posted 07/11/2020 at 23:15:02
Sorry Eddie 210, i'm in New Zealand and a bit behind! just to put the record straight. I don't give a shit what Carlos has done in his wonderful career with his wonderful players around him. This is a different proposition he's dealing with and he has to wake up and smell the coffee sooner rather than later. His tactical genius and nouse of the game means diddly squat when you are faced with a mediocre club. Sadly that is what we are whether we like it or not and he needs to get back to basics just like the managers before him. Losing balls in midfield, not defending correctly and not utilising the striker correctly are costing us dearly. Simple tweaks here and there and using the correct players are all part of his job. Bring it on Carlos before we get sucked in yet again.
Carl Manning
235 Posted 07/11/2020 at 23:32:41

Did anybody seriously expect us to reach top 4? We finished how many points behind the top four last year? Chelsea
Spend over £200m, city over £100m spurs, Leicester wolves ?

We will crack top 8 if we’re lucky! We spent just enough to stand still. 4 of the back 5 are not top 6 material. Only digne gets a look in. New keeper has a good game, dominates his box and spreads calm and gets dropped, holgate straight back in the team against a very mobile front line, Coleman torn to pieces over and over again.

It’s not the midfield, it’s the defence. They genuinely are not good enough. Bottom line.

Carl Manning
236 Posted 07/11/2020 at 23:36:40
As for wanting kean back? Did you see him? He’s awful! Shocking! Ofcourse he’s scoring in a crap league with neymar, mbappe, di maria etc playing with him! Look at the French teams in Europe! They’re not very good! So even if he hit 30 goals, that would mean diddly squat!
Paul Birmingham
237 Posted 07/11/2020 at 23:41:39
Tuning out, in good form, tonight.

And the world is spinning, DT, lost the USA, election..

But the weather on TW, keeps us on our toes.

Here’s to a good week, for all TWrs, but don’t ever consider BBC, MOTD, as proper and fair reviewer, of teams, nor BT or Sky

The officials today at GP, based on clean descision making, were blight.

But so was Everton, in trying to play to win this game.

No, more to say.

Nicholas Ryan
238 Posted 07/11/2020 at 23:57:06
1. We conceded to a header from the penalty-spot from a man who was unmarked and isn't a striker.

2. We conceded to a cross which went straight in without anyone touching it.

3. They brought on Paul Pogba and Edinson Cavani: we brought on Cenk Tosun and Alex Iwobi.

4. Our goalkeeper could easily have been sent off. He also complained about the sunshine but did nothing about it.

5. Backwards and sideways passes outnumbered forward passes by about 3 to 1.

6. We need a boss who can arouse the sleeping giant, restore pride to battered egos and take on take on loudmouthed rich opponents: Welcome, Joe Biden!

7. A guy called Moise Kean has been seen in Paris, rolling around the floor, laughing his socks off.

Michael Penley
239 Posted 08/11/2020 at 00:14:58
I'm sympathetic to all the vitriol here, but really, if we haven't won since 2018 with Richarlison in the team, is it wise to expect anything different this time around? If we go into the game expecting a draw or loss, which is the predicted outcome and one you could bet on with good certainty, then it's just another expected result.
Christy Ring
240 Posted 08/11/2020 at 00:15:38
Just to say about Wallcott, has pace, and always went forward, ?
Si Cooper
241 Posted 07/11/2020 at 00:34:18
Jerome (230), wouldn’t that be an illegal tapping up of a player? Surely then we’d get PSG fined and tell them where to go?
I don’t think we can assume the loan to PSG happened for any other reason than we were actively seeking someone to take him on loan. Who made that questionable decision is open to debate.
Brian Wilkinson
242 Posted 08/11/2020 at 00:41:51
Slightly off topic, but have a look at Lookmans penalty today, might make you feel a little better we let the guy seek pastures new, be a good partnership Lookman and Moise Kean, both sulky arses, with a I can do better elsewhere.

Big big problem at the moment is Siggerson,he has to be taken out of the team.

Jason Wilkinson
243 Posted 08/11/2020 at 00:44:04
After today's shitshow I don't have any confidence that we will get a result at Fulham.
Andrew Keatley
244 Posted 08/11/2020 at 02:37:36
Disappointing result today, but under Ancelotti I really do believe we are heading in the right direction. If he is able to add three or four players with some real pace, energy and dynamism then we might finally possess a squad that can actually deal with injuries and suspensions. I think we’re a lot closer to having a strong and competitive squad than we have been in recent years. Craven Cottage has always seemed to have been a ground that we have struggled at, but hopefully our next game against Fulham will get us back on track.

Arnez Desmond
245 Posted 08/11/2020 at 02:39:00
Everton 1-3 Man Utd.
Why doesn't anyone in the management realise that the 3 games we lost, we lost in midfield. We have 2 good midfielders carrying the load of 4 people. We have Allan and Diacoure carrying Gomes, Sigurdsson, Bernard, Iwobi, Delph and James. Everton is a slow team if you look at the makeup and we are getting caught out by pacier, more direct teams. We need to replace the lot above (except Allan and Diacoure) to have a proper chance of competing in the EPL.

We have tried and lost. So try something else. In the favored 4-3-3, Allan and Diacoure as box 2 box midfielders, supported behind by Holgate as a holding midfielder. Anthony Gordon would have been a better bet than Bernard. Bernard while technically good get brushed of the ball too easily.

The lack of a tracking back by James means we need another pacy ball playing defensive player to balance the team. We more directness up front to support Dom, that is Anthony or go out and buy Zaha.

Leave the defence alone with Keane and Mina as they are okay as a defensive pair and also add height threat to set pieces. Sadly time to get in a new right back with pace and attacking ability, as Coleman's deputy and let's get behind and support Pickford. He is not being helped by the lack of proper cover in front of him, and this possibly leads to a rush of blood to the head at times!

Lastly, also don't understand why nobody shoots and keeps passing the ball around the box. No shots, no goals. What's the point of shooting practice if no one is shooting?

Kieran Kinsella
246 Posted 08/11/2020 at 03:49:38
I always thought my love of Everton trumped everything until today, (pardon the pun) it was trumped by my hatred of Donald so I can’t stop smiling.
That said, I figured we would lose as Ole is very good at setting up his counter attacking against “better teams” on the road e.g. PSG but he hasn’t figured out how to control a game at home. Are we reliant on Rich? Yes, evidently but you could say the same of Arsenal (Abemeyang) Leicester(Vardy) etc. Bigger picture we won four games early on. Since then draws have crept back into the picture in the EPL. Being a win/lose team gets you more points than draw specialists. So our early advantage can help down the line. After the break I’ve every confidence we will get back on track:
Kieran Kinsella
247 Posted 08/11/2020 at 03:52:48
Brian 243

I felt that pen was Ademola putting himself above the team. If he was invested in Fulham he’d play it safe. Being an arrogant prick, he risked Fulham’s point in pursuit of an individual moment of glory. He failed. Good riddance to him

Derek Thomas
248 Posted 08/11/2020 at 04:07:53
Watching Everton is like buying a lottery ticket, you buy one more out of habit than expectation...oh you might win the odd 20 or 50 quid once a year or so and its always a nice surprise. But you know deep down, the big money will always find a way to avoid you.

Everton; mostly fucking me over since those 4 days in 1971 when we lost to the rs and the greeks.

Derek Knox
249 Posted 08/11/2020 at 04:18:11
I think calls for Carlo to be sacked are basically a kneejerk reaction to what is happening on the field, but in some ways I can understand the frustration. I watched the match today and also watched the faces of Carlo and Dunc when on camera.

They looked as pissed off as we obviously all are, and with gestures like what the fuck are they doing, we didn't tell them to act like this in preparation at Finch Farm? I do agree there are some passengers in the team but I thought Bernard really tried today and can be exempted from criticism.

I also agree we do need more players, but preferably grafters and no more luxury players, who expect all the others to do their running, tracking back, etc. I was a bit disappointed, and have been for a few games in both Allan and Doucoure, who could and should have done a lot better.

I think Allan is realising what the Prem is all about and I think will up his game to suit. Doucoure does know what the game is about at this level so must improve. His couple of goal attempts, if you could call them that, were right out of the 'schoolboy error manual' which he has obviously studied and memorised.

I also thought Maguire should have gone for the tackle on Digne, but it was a similar incident to Pickford's, in that the flag had gone up for offside before, but nevertheless could have been a career ending one, which luckily it wasn't.

Richie is back next game, so I expect we will see a better showing, but I don't think he will stay around for much longer, although I hope I am wrong. Holgate didn't have the impact we had all hoped for, so maybe was rushed back, and retrospectively maybe should have been on the bench.

I know it's always easy to look back and say we should have done this or that differently, but by the same token, we are allegedly a professional outfit, and should neither keep making stupid mistakes, but also learn from the one's that we do make, never to be repeated.

Jim Harrison
250 Posted 08/11/2020 at 05:21:32
Seriously? Sacked after 8 games? You are kidding right? One month ago we were winning the league now we are doomed!

It’s a shit run. The manager is in part to blame because he picks the team and sets the tactics. But the players are responsible too. Holgate shouldn’t have started, but he’s a country mile away from the first goal and no challenge on Rashford for the second either.

It shows how important Richarlison is, for me particularly in how he stretches the pitch.

Jim Harrison
251 Posted 08/11/2020 at 05:22:39
Also, how was Bruno still on the pitch! I reckon he did enough for 4 yellow cards and a penalty
Annika Herbert
252 Posted 08/11/2020 at 07:07:10
Ajay @ 97, Siggi played well?!!! What game were you watching? He was abysmal, as usual!
He is meant to be a creative force for us but he creates nothing. Even his free kicks and corners are poor now. Has he ever scored from a free kick for us yet?
Siggi needs dropping and moving on as soon as possible. We are playing with 10 men with him in the team
Paul Rimmer
253 Posted 08/11/2020 at 07:32:44
James needs to be played centrally as in this system other teams are targeting our right eg Shaw, TAA, Redmond. Doucoure tries to cover out there but this robs him of his usual game. It was no surprise that he popped up in the box when James went off. Play with Mina and Keane as they know each other's games better. Iwobi or Gordon on the right with James in a free role.
Charles Brewer
254 Posted 08/11/2020 at 07:41:13
Having seen how totally dependant Everton are on him, I think every team in the Premiership will be sending their Van Dyck shithouse thug after Richarlison for the rest of the season. He is going to be kicked up and down the pitch even more than before and I seriously worry about him being crippled.

We have already seen the rotating foul process used against him, and once some knuckle dragger like Fernandez, Maguire, or Henderson mistimes a tackle intended to injure that’s Richi’s career over.

And given the New York Times level of naked hatred and lies coverage from the media, the refs won’t see a thing.

Frank Wolfe
255 Posted 08/11/2020 at 07:42:23
Agree with Paul R (254), we are getting targeted down the right side due to lack of cover by James. I'd go 4-2-3-1 with James in the central (10) role.
Steve Shave
256 Posted 08/11/2020 at 08:03:46
Annika 253 agree with your comments on Siggi as per usual, we and a few others on here are strongly of the view that he has been one of our biggest problems from the moment he arrived. It's not really his fault, we overpaid for him, gave him ridiculous wages and either played him out of position or in his natural position but after his legs had gone. As I said not his fault but if one player has single handedly hamstrung us for so long its him, we have had to shoe-horn him in to justify the outlay (or in some way to hope he performs so we can get some of it back). He must be sold in January to anyone from the US, China or the Middle East who are prepared to give him a big fat pay day. Yesterday he was utterly fucking useless, offered nothing. I know Gomes has been stinking the gaff out as well but we looked better at the beginning of the season with him knitting play, I am a Gomes fan (waning adoration I must say) who believes he will come good.

Keiran 248 Lookman came here with much promise but was overlooked and criticised by numerous managers, has gone to Leipzig and has been overlooked and loaned out. His penalty yesterday illuminates what we have all wondered - behind the babyfaced "nice kid from London" is an arrogant twit who thinks he is better than he is and his ego transcends what is best for the team - a Brands masterstroke to get £22M back from him, a rare moment for Marcel!

As for the game yesterday there is not much for me to add from what has already been said above. I will say there is some over-reaction on here, I thought there were times were we pushed the ball around quite nicely, we had more possession than them (yes I know, some infuriating backward/sideways passing) and I thought up until their third we looked most likely to score. James, Coleman and Holgate all played unfit and will improve after the International break. Calls for Carlo's sacking are utterly bizarre! Richy is coming back. We need to find that confidence from earlier in the season, James switching play with Richy. It may feel like we are back to last season again but we have Fulham next (we must win this game) and hopefully we will look sharper.

We need to ship players desperately, Mina, Tosun, Siggi and Kenny should all be sold in Jan. We will be lucky to get £30M for them but a subsequent injection of new players will freshen them up and create greater competition (DCL is hardly shitting himself about his place with Tosun warming the bench - Coleman likewise with Kenny). I'd like to see a wide man brought in (Boga - yes please! Lozano unlikely, maybe Buendia) a striker who knows where the net is (Edouard - really like this lad, Morelos a slower cheaper option but boy can he finish) and an RB to push Seamus (Emerson likely to cost too much but good options out there). Agree with some comments above that we are shipping too many goals and this is mostly down to the defence, things need to be freshened up, I'd like to see James playing no 10 by the end of the season with a hardworking RM alongside him to protect the RB more.

Steve Shave
257 Posted 08/11/2020 at 09:33:38
I would add, for once I am going to praise Iwobi, he looked sharp when he came on yesterday.
Ricky Oak
258 Posted 08/11/2020 at 09:44:11
Watch us go to Fulham and lose,, it'll be the look man show,, we're never allowed to compete the same as any other team we play,, can no one else see that?? From now on am gunna be betting on whomever we play, to have less cards, more dangerous position foul, more biased officials, and of course the usual media haters,, even if by some wishful, hopeful, positive thinking,, if we manage to beat Fulham! Fulham,, ffs,, then it'll be only a small miracle, until the next game that we get roasted by anyone else in the league because it is corruption of the highest order,, would you take that bet?? Will give odds of 100-1,up to a quid, ( unemployment) due to the other big bullshit lie,, c19,, we are mushrooms,, fact
Tony Everan
259 Posted 08/11/2020 at 09:49:20
Annika 252

Couldn’t agree more, 2 goals in the last 43 PL games, one of those was a penalty. One assist every ten or eleven games in that period. His corners and free kicks have regressed to the point where someone else is better taking them. Defensively he can’t tackle and doesn’t have the required pace or mobility to close down. You and other posters are right, starting with Sigurdsson is starting with 10 men and it always follows we concede possession in midfield and look slow, weak and disjointed.

The fact that Carlo cannot see this glaringly obvious weak link that’s what’s scaring me more than anything, as he’s the man we have invested all our hope and trust in.

Steve Brown
260 Posted 08/11/2020 at 09:55:51
Spineless is harsh, the effort was there but the quality definitely wasn't.

Some thoughts:
a) Ancelotti made mistakes for the third match in a row; picking Sigurdsson to link up with DCL was a complete failure and left our lone striker isolated.
b) Coleman and Holgate lacked match sharpness and it showed in the first half - they improved as the game went on but weren't ready for the first team.
c) Who in our midfield is tasked with trigging runners into the box? I haven't got a clue and it appears the team doesn't either - get it sorted quick.
d If Gomes is unfit/out of form, I would prefer James, Bernard or Doucoure to take that role.
e Bernard and Iwobi get stick, but they were decent.
f) We will not get anywhere while we commit individual errors every game.

Derek Taylor
261 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:10:12
Ridiculous to be talking of firing Carlo at this stage - he's here to deliver continuous Premier membership in the transition to BMD.

However, he disappoints with his team selections and tactics which have lost almost as many games as his 'mega signings' have won. In the maelstrom that is the Premier 20/21, what he achieved elsewhere is of little or no consequence. All that matters is what he can do with Everton FC with our surfeit of dubious quality, grossly overpaid playing staff.

Most of us had hoped that, unlike all managers since Moyes, he would be able to effect immediate improvement on what was available to him -even if this was merely in respect of attitude and application. Sadly, his preference for the 'tried but not trusted' old brigade over the energy and enthusiasm of home developed talent, has left us looking as moribund as we did last season - in other words fucked !

Now we are back to praying for miracles. Nothing changes, does it ?

Steve Shave
262 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:18:31
I would add to my numerous more positive points made in post 256 that we will have Gbamin back soon as well. I am not banking on this, or in fact that he may even be able to return to the player he was at Mainz.

However, worth considering that maybe, just maybe, he can come in and do the job he was brought for. How would this affect things? It would allow us to push Doucouré and Allan further forward.

Colin Metcalfe
263 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:20:32
I keep reading about pace and more pace but it wasn’t pace that undone is yesterday it was two simple crosses from the right, the difference yesterday was Fernandes who was the best player on the pitch yesterday and we can’t go out and buy a £67M midfielder or £80 defender.
The ball moves a lot faster than the player we need to move the ball much quicker and with purpose, the amount of times we see players taking the easy pass either sideways or backwards it’s infuriating.
I am sure Carlo knows how he wants us to play but we need better players to implement this style of play, let’s see where we are after two more windows when it’s Carlo’s team.
Paul Tran
264 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:31:33
All of this, including many reactions on here, was very predictable. At the start of the season, we had the same under-achieving, toothless squad. We bought two centre mids we needed and a bit of stardust in James. We started very well.

I suspect that at times, James & Allan have not been fit enough to play and/or playing in this league has suddenly hit them. Very few, if any breather games in this league. They'll get over that.

We are heavily dependent on Richarlison & Dignes pace, purpose and creativity. That gives James space to do his magic. Defensively, James is a passenger who leaves gaps the opposition will exploit. That requires the team to press strongly without the ball and cover the right. Carlo hasn't got them to do that consistently enough yet, that's down to him.

The likes of Bernard, Iwobi and Gomes won't change. Talented, peripheral players who play 1 good game in 3 or 4 and rarely score. I don't know what Siggy does, except run about with little purpose. All four have a limited future at the club.

The backlash on here was inevitable too. Back in August, I'd have seen 6th in November as a solid enough start to build on. But this is Everton and we have to play hubris or despair. I've always said, take a look after 13 games, then at Christmas to see what we really have. The reality is we were very good for 4 games, OK against Liverpool and poor for the last three.

Here's what I'd do. Put Olsen in goal. Give him at least six games. Decide on my centre back partnership and give them time to gel. Drill the midfield to press till they do it in their sleep. Tell Richarlison and Digne to keep their discipline and publically tell referees to protect Richarlison. I'd play Gordon, unless there's something behind the scenes I don't know about.

Carlo won't make the peripheral players better. He could make firmer decisions about his best team and stick with it. And he has to get them playing with purpose again, otherwise we'll be in for a long hard winter.

Four wins were on him, four without are on him. Lets see what he does next. Time for us all to respond.

Gary Willock
265 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:35:47
Agree completely with Paul@253 and Frank@255 about us being targeted down the right. It’s not just because of James, as Bournemouth at the end of last season did it too. I think we’ve been targeted there for a while now.

I think this is also why Richie is so influential on the left. Because other teams throw men over to our right, it leaves space on the counter. His pace and eye for goals let’s us exploit it.

Not really sure how we can stop it, but I think in next transfer Windows the right hand side is an absolute must. We need a ‘right footed digne’ to come and be a 1st choice rb, and we need to find another Richarlison / Salah (spit) to play in front of them.

Until then maybe pack the midfield a bit more. Maybe try a 3-5-2 with

Holgate Keane Godfrey
Coleman Doucouré James Allan Digne
DCL Richie

That worries me a bit though that it could leave even more space for teams to get crosses in. The 3 at the back would have to be *very* dominant in the box.

A 4-4-2 option would also be nice, but whilst I’d like to see Nkounkou tried in a “LM” slot, we simply do not have a proper RM option, and are limited full stop here.

Alternative is a solid, defensive 3 in front of the back 4. I’d try Tom Davies on the right (and tell him to stay there and protect Seamus). Allan and Doucoure would provide the other two, maybe allowing one to get forward on a rotating basis.

Think that would work well with the first choice front 3 as they have enough about them to craft some goals. As soon as we lose one of them though we become completely blunt. Not sure there is any answer to that outside of the transfer window.

Squad still hugely unbalanced. Desperately need more goals and threat.

Jack Convery
266 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:42:19
Of that team today I expect only Keane, Holgate, Digne, Allan, Doucoure, James and DCL plus Richarlson will be in the starting XI come the start of next season. Other possibles are Olsen and Gbamin if they can prove themselves to Carlo before the end of this season. Squad players will be Coleman, Mina, Godfrey, Branthwaite, Nkounkou, Gomes, Davies, Iwobi, Gordon and Virginia. Plus those we bring in, during the Winter and Summer windows. I would keep Bernard but I don't think he figures in Carlos long term plans. Mina being sold would not surprise me either - too often injured and a mistake in him every game.

433 Line up.
GK - TBC or ( Could be Olsen ), RB - TBC, RCD - Keane, LCD - Holgate, LB - Digne.
Allan, Doucoure, TBC or ( Could be Gbamin )
James, Richarlson, DCL.

By dropping Pickford last week, Carlo alerted every agent he wants a goalkeeper come next summer. He's also alerted Pickford and his agent, that he's not happy, not happy at all. Rotation was a smokescreen and in my opinion not even a firing shot across the bows. Pickford will be going. Who comes in is anybody's guess but I'm sure Carlo has his eye on someone already. His bigging up of Coleman was to get a last great effort from his Captain for 20/21 as he does not trust JJK to come in and take the place from Seamus. So I expect a new right back and I would love us to get Lamptey from Brighton. Keane and Holgate have recently signed new contracts I believe and Digne is here for as long as he wants to be. Allan and Doucoure have only just come in. Gbamin is the big question mark. If he can be the player we bought and get over the terrible injuries he endured since coming here, he could save us a fortune, which could be spent elsewhere. If not then someone will have to be brought in. I would love Ward Prowse but the boat may have sailed on that one. The front 3 pick themselves, though whether Richarlson is prepared to stick around is the real issue. If not then Zaha maybe the player to go for plus we need cover for DCL and Milik from Napoli maybe the bargain buy of the Winter window.

Brands needs to move on Bolasie, Besic, JJK, Tosun, Siggy, Delph, and Lossl. Bernard and Mina possibly.

Being an Evertonian its all ifs, buts and maybes, as ever !!!!

I'm hoping the prelude at the beginning of this season is a sign of whats to come, once Carlo has got the 16 players he really wants under his command.

Laurie Hartley
267 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:49:26
Very disappointed at the result but not with the effort.

I think Carlo got it wrong he should not have dropped either Olsen or Mina. Fernandez wouldn’t have got a free header and if he did Olsen would have reached it.

I have been a fan of Gomes but going on that performance when Richarlison comes back Bernard should take that spot.

My view is the strongest team Carlo can put out from the current crop is:

Coleman, Keane, Mina, Digne
Doucoure, Allan, Bernard
Rodrigues, DCL, Richarlison.

Brian Harrison
268 Posted 08/11/2020 at 10:59:30
Quite rightly after 3 consecutive defeats the manager will come under criticism, and he as much as the players must take responsibility for those results. He has bought 2 quality players in James and Allan, not sure if Doucoure was his choice as I doubt he has seen the lad play and the same goes for Godfrey, but I guess he didnt object to their signings so he has to accept ownership of them.

But he has inherited 2 CBs in Keane and Mina who are both slow to turn and because of that cause us problems defensively. Last week a simple ball over the top caught out Mina which led to a Newcastle goal, and yesterday Rashford should have scored when a simple ball over the top left Keane floundering and left Rashford with a one on one with Pickford who made a good save. Keane was involved in both of Utds goals although others contributed. Seamus needed to be closer to stop the cross coming in also for reasons best known to himself Sigurdsson allowed Fernandes to run off him and the gap between Keane and Holgate allowed Fernandes to step in and score. The second goal again Keane was at fault, he was marking Rashford both were about 10 yards outside the box, but when Rashford came short for the pass Keane didnt close him down instead stood about 15 yards away. This allowed Rashford to turn and play the ball to Fernandes and then again got in between Keane and Holgate, its not clear whether he got a touch or not but again poor defending from us again.

I thought after the first 5 minutes we started to get into the game and when Bernard scored I began to wonder maybe we could win without Richarlison. But that hope was killed off very quickly, Bernard linked well with Digne but sadly as the game goes on Bernard seems not to last the pace.

I would hope to see Carlo play James in a more number 10 role, as when Sigurdsson went off and James moved into that position he looked a lot more effective. These days any flaw that a side has will be exposed and most teams now know James doesnt track back so our fullback is often faced with a 2 v 1 situation. I am sure Carlo is aware of this and needs to fix it quickly otherwise this will become a recurring problem.

I though DCL yet again did very well and made the half chance for Bernards goal. Without Richarlison nobody else seems to get close to DCL and its asking to much to expect him to do anymore that he is doing already.
Finally I can only assume that Carlo must think Anthony Gordon isn't doing enough on the training ground to warrant a place in the team. But maybe when Gordon went to see him over not playing as much as he thinks he should, maybe something was said that Ancelotti didnt like. Obviously the only 2 people who know what was said are Carlo and Anthony, I remember seeing Klopp in an interview and said he would be very disappointed if any player knocked on his door to ask why they werent playing. He suggested he would rather they ask what more do I need to do to improve my game.

Joe Bibb
269 Posted 08/11/2020 at 11:36:12
With a lazy, non aggressive midfield and defence plus a goalie barley able to touch the crossbar even when he jumps, what else can we expect, except defeat.
Joe Bibb
270 Posted 08/11/2020 at 11:36:12
With a lazy, non aggressive midfield and defence plus a goalie barley able to touch the crossbar even when he jumps, what else can we expect, except defeat.
Ajay Gopal
271 Posted 08/11/2020 at 11:36:38
Annika (242), to be sure, I don't want to see Siggy ever starting for us (although as a subsitute, he was useful in the 1st few games) and I in my pre-match predicted /preferred starting XI, I had Davies instead of Siggy. But, having been selected to play, I thought Siggy did okay in open play, but maybe I need to watch the game again! Usually during a game, I don't focus on individual players unless they make a mistake which then becomes noticeable. His set-piece and corner delivery was wasteful, and Carlo and Dunc were visibly frustrated on the sidelines.
Laurie (267), I agree with your team, except for Mina. For me, he is very awkward on the ball and has a mistake per game in him - the 2nd Newcastle goal, and his poor clearance in the derby, off which Salah scored are 2 vivid recent examples. Given time to settle down, I believe Keane and Holgate will rediscover their partnership. I would sell Mina - we have too many CBs at the moment, IMO.
Tony Abrahams
272 Posted 08/11/2020 at 12:21:43
I’m not sure I’d pick the same defenders Laurie, but I’d go with your front six mate, although I might even try Godfrey or Holgate, in the “centre of the park” alongside Allan, and play Doucoure, on the right, because this should give the team more protection and allow Rodriguez to play in a floating role?

The nucleus is definitely there now, so I expect to see steady improvement, and I’m sure with our best eleven, we will get some very good results this season, ever the opmitist (can’t spell!) that I am.

Dave Abrahams
273 Posted 08/11/2020 at 12:40:36
Obviously Richarlison makes a difference to the shape, pace and movement to Everton’s game but fans going on about how we’ve never won a game when he hasn’t played should acknowledge that he has missed seven league games since he came from Watford, seven, six of them caused by himself, getting sent off for stupid incidents which could have Ben avoided.

Holgate came back from a three month lay off and is getting plenty of blame for United’s first two goals, while Keane hasn’t missed a game all season, and was just as responsible as Holgate for those goals,Keane is as big a liability as Mina and not just for his slowness in pace, just as slow in reading the game, I thought United were well kidded when they bought McGuire, and still think that, but what a massive difference between him and Keane yesterday, he isn’t the answer to Everton’s centre back problems, let’s hope Holgate and Godfrey forge a real understanding there.

Andrew Keatley
274 Posted 08/11/2020 at 12:50:59
Jack (266) - I think your interpretation of Ancelotti’s motives for resting Pickford against Newcastle might be more wishful thinking than anything else. With the vile threats against him and his family, Jordan might have just been given some calculated time out of the media spotlight. I’d like to see us recruit a new first-choice keeper but I heavily doubt it is as cut and dried as you are suggesting.
Frank Crewe
275 Posted 08/11/2020 at 12:53:34
We lost because we weren't very good but our next three games are Fulham, Leeds and Burnley. All these games are eminently winnable if we play our best side. Hopefully Richarlison will be back and and we can work on our defence in the next two weeks.
DROP PICKFORD! He did it again yesterday. This stop and drop habit he has unfortunately developed. He's risking giving away penalties and getting himself or someone else sent off every time he does it. We have a perfectly good replacement in Olsen so it is time to put Pickford on the bench because on current form he is making Dai the drop look like Gordon Banks.
James Head
276 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:01:08
Theres just no pace or stamina in the squad and we can't compete in the midfield areas, on the few occasions we do manage to get forward we are immediately vulnerable to the counter as soon as the play breaks down.
Just got to say that the referee was a disgrace yesterday in not sending Fernandes off for his constant offending and ignoring other instances against us.
I think Ancelotti should have had Allan man marking Fernandes and i'd have liked to see James play in the number 10 role with Soggy dropped and Gordon or Iwobi pushed out wide to give us something going forward, the lack of support for DCL is soul destroying for the lad. Despite everything that went wrong yesterday if Digne squares that shot he had DCL taps in and we go 2-0 up things would be different, maybe!
Heres my choice, full backs to push on, Allan to sit and not wander, Doucoure to be the water carrier, James the link and creator, Iwobi or Gordon to help defensively when we're not in possession.

Coleman Digne
Holgate Keane
Iwobi/Gordon Richarlison

Edit as per personal choice.

Eddie Dunn
277 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:05:19
James, you and others mention Digne going for goal instead of squaring it for DCL but as I watched in real time and on the replay I thought Domenic had made his run too early and Digne suspected he was offside, so had a go himself. He was only three inches off target. Perhaps someone has time to have another look at the video to confirm or refute this.
Ken Kneale
278 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:12:06
Michael's headline is correct for me - 'spineless' in this context is perfect to judge such a purposelessness, wishy-wahsy and very aggravating performance from players who should no longer feature in the first team - it is worrying the manager and coaching staff appear to have sacred cows within the squad. Such thinking does nobody any credit and continues the abysmal Everton story perpetuated over the the 30 years. Expect a senior player to make media comment anytime soon about how things are going to improve and possiblly even an announcement about the ground move.
James Head
279 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:15:53
Derek Thomas
280 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:18:51
Laurie @ 267; thats a decent team in a 4312-ish sort of way with James as the 1.
The trouble is the bench...a keeper, a defender, a 'utility' ok. But your actual game changers are not there.
In fact all the usual suspects weaken the 11.
Eddie Dunn
281 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:19:15
I notice that Kane has started coming deeper to pick up the ball and also pulling defenders out from the 18 yard line, allowing midfielders to overlap and find pockets of space.
As manfully as DCL tried to provide a target perhaps if he tried something similar and the likes of Iwobi or James or the full backs might be able to exploit the gaps.
I just think we look very rigid in formation and it is only late-on when we get desperate that we find a way to the box.
Last week I wondered if we were over-coached, if the players were being choreographed too much.
We are certainly very predictable especially without Richarlison.
James Head
282 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:27:04
Seamus has been over exposed recently as James can obviously not be expected to be bombing back to help so push him inside where he can recieve and move the ball and give the youth of Gordon or Iwobi the wide position and ask them to help Seamus out, far too many crosses being allowed into our box, it's going to be a tough season and i'd forget Europe this year we look a midtable side, lets throw everything at the League Cup and give the fans an early Christmas present by beating Manu on 23rd December.
Bill Gall
283 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:39:44
Even when we get Rich back teams are going to concentrate on are right hand side with James not backtracking to help the defender.He does try but when we win the ball back he is out of position to help the attack. It may be better to move him to a more attacking midfielder and bring in Awobi or Gorden on the right side.
James has a target on his back,and most defenders are aware that they will get away with the first bad tackle that usually leaves James with a minor knock that troubles him throughout the rest of the game. There is no need to panic we have practically a full 12 players who started the season who proved they can win and thankfully the first 5 games has given us a reasonable start to improve on.
David Hallwood
284 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:46:56
Laurie Hartley(#267) I think the reason CA dropped Mina was because we haven't got pace in the back 4 and he was wary of the pace of Rashford & Martial; but apart from that you've selected a decent team.

Having watched the game again (yes I'm in to extreme S&M), I'd say the difference between the teams was Frenandes(not just the goals) and Mata, plus, more disturbingly, they appeared to be fitter.

I cannot overstate the difference between those 2 and Siggi; when they were in possession they looked to move the ball forward and then follow the ball to support the front 2, whereas Siggi would turn sideways or backwards slowing the move down.

Even though one man doesn't make a team, swap Siggi for Fenandes and we would've got something out of the game; there's a damming statistic that Siggi didn't give a single forward pass to DCL in the game.

Normally, I don't like to pick on a player, but it's hard on the evidence of this year not to come to the conclusion that Siggi should never start a game ever again; too slow, and it isn't a coincidence that he's looked good when coming on for the last 20 minutes with everyone blowing for tugs.

Iwobi did more in his cameo than Siggi's whole game, just by doing what was asked of him; support the front players. Desperately disappointing, but we all knew this was going to take 2-3 windows to ship some of the deadwood on; and don't forget easier said than done, and get some of CA's players in.

In the meantime, like Laurie I'd draft Bernard in to the starting 11, only maybe switch him and James.

Darren Hind
285 Posted 08/11/2020 at 13:57:14
I think its probably time for many to face up to the possibility that Carlo Fantastico may just be Carlo bustedflushio.

People moaning about injuries are simply making excuses for him. He has better players than the Southampton and Newcastle managers have and both beat him hollow. Every time he comes up against a young coach his game looks stale and dated. He just doesnt win like he used to.

There no point in pointing to his log list of achievements when they were all years ago and when he had world class players to choose from.

Sportsman. Even managers, have a shelf life

I wonder if he has enough pulling power to get a taxi driver to come around to GP

Sean O´Hanlon
286 Posted 08/11/2020 at 14:02:39
Looking at various comments about the manager, some blame him for team selection, others blame the players, because Ancellotti is beyond reproach due to his excellent record as a manager... Maybe it is a bit of both.

Like all great players and managers, they have a sell-by date. And maybe Carlo has reached that point. His selection of Pickford and Sigurdsson are examples of his ludicrous decision-making. I for one believe Olsen would have come for at least one of those crosses that led to their goals. Pickford is allergic to high balls, and we all saw his latest farcical attempt to deal with a high ball that almost led to a penalty. I concede the centre backs were not entirely blameless for their goals.

Sigurdsson is now a passenger. He cannot even take decent free-kicks or corners, but Ancelotti persists with him. Why? I have no idea. I would even give Tom Davies a run out, because at least you know you're going to get 100% from him. And of course there are other young players he ignores, like Gordon, Nkounkou, etc.

So what's happened to our 3 amazing signings? Let's be honest, if Allan, Rodriguez and Doucouré were world class, the other top European clubs would have snapped them up before Everton. Everton do not get bargains. The 3 of them look very mediocre now, after the first 3 games – burnt out already?

The same goes for Ancelloti. Why didn't other top clubs come for him? Maybe they knew he had reached his sell-by date.

Paul Hewitt
287 Posted 08/11/2020 at 14:05:51
If Carlo can't fix this club, then its time to pack up.
Ken Williams
288 Posted 08/11/2020 at 14:09:07
Before the game started except for Siggy people were saying that this was our strongest side bar injured players etc, if that was the case we will be lucky to finish in the top half of the league, we are back to the Everton of previous seasons stinking the place out. Problem is the players just don't seem to give a shit, getting beat and leaving the pitch laughing and joking with the opposition, just no pride in the club, the shirt or the fans, as long as the mega pay is in the bank..
Sean O´Hanlon
289 Posted 08/11/2020 at 14:11:52
There are many describing scenarios, "When Richarlison is back, we'll do this that and the other..."

Let us remember, the idiot got himself sent off for a reckless, and unnecessary challenge, which quite possibly has cost us half a dozen points or more, and maybe would have helped to maintain the start of season momentum. I get the feeling, he'll come back sulking, and probably get injured, then he'll be off in the next transfer window.

Joe McMahon
290 Posted 08/11/2020 at 14:20:37
Darren, I agree, the team selctions even from what he has have been not great. Like I stated earlier on this thread Carlo needs a squad of top-top players, Seedorf, Lampard, Petr Cech, Cafu, Pirlo, Nesta, Ramos, Drogba ( not even mentioning Zidane) and arriving at teams with a CL pedigree. Everton had non of those when he arrived apart from Richarlison. It think it's too big a task for him as this is uncharted waters for Carlo as a manager. We are not Real Madrid, Bayern, Milan or even Chelsea (last 20 years version).

I think he can attract a better quality player than we have been used to for any years such as James, however the squad containing many below standard players on huge salaries who can't even run or pass forward would stifle even Klopp.

Brian Williams
291 Posted 08/11/2020 at 14:40:49
If the many below standard players would stifle "even Klopp" then how is it Ancelotti's fault?
And if his team selection was so bad yesterday what team should he have selected?
It's easy to criticize but how about some constructive criticism?
Who should he have played, instead of who?
Andy Crooks
292 Posted 08/11/2020 at 14:47:45
I think spineless is a fair description. That doesn't mean they don't run around a lot. Sigurdsson works up a sweat but achieves nothing. They are frightened, they take the easy sideways option. By not wanting to look really bad, they will rarely look really good. Only the coach can fix that.

This may well be the first group's he players he has coached who have an inbuilt acceptance of near adequacy. I don't think that James, Gordon and Davis have been afflicted yet. They will be.

Brian Murray
293 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:05:07
Darren Hind, #285. We hope to god you are wrong because the club has no Plan B except maybe Big Dunc.

Like it or not, the last 3 games was a chance to show us he is different than the last 4 very limited managers by being brave and supporting Calvert-Lewin with Simms or Gordon and keeping Pickford well away from the first team and stick to a commanding reliable keeper. Failed miserably.

The hope is what kills us Blues, never mind a virus!

Trevor Peers
294 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:16:32
There's no way Carlo will be leaving anytime soon, he's on £11.5 million a year until 2024. Nice work if you can get it.
Brian Williams
295 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:17:40
Andy, I can't help comparing our midfield to the midfield of every team we play and ours always comes up second best.

Darren said earlier in the thread "He has better players than the Soton and Newcastle manager." Personally I don't think he has.

The midfield, certainly of Soton were buzzing around playing the ball and moving quickly. Our midfield is too slow and lacks dynamism. They don't create because they don't move the opposition players around and out of position to create space.

Looking at Leicester's midfield today. Young quick players who want to create and beat people and run round like fuck to do it. We're just not gonna get that with most of the midfield players we have, unfortunately.

Ian Horan
296 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:20:42
Brian@291, absolutely right. Carlo can only select what he has available, The clamour for Gordon is strange as once he has a bad game he will get a dogs abuse on here. Are we really pinning our hope on a 19 year old!!!.

Gordon isn't a Rooney, Owen etc he is a very fit direct athlete who will work, if he isn't getting picked he must be short in an attribute or two at the moment.

Our early season form was scratchy at best. We won at Spurs after Pickford made 3 or 4 outstanding saves, we best Palace on a dubious penalty and WBA threatened us everytime they broke on us until they were reduced to 10 men finally against the RS being honest Hendersons goal was onside.

I am a blue of 55 years but I aint deluded we are a work in progress, top 8 at best and possibly a cup final or cup win is progress.

Derek Taylor
297 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:26:09
Brian @ 291:-I don't see it as a distant follower's job to pick the team, but since time began, supporters have had the right to comment on who the manager picks. What other purpose would the likes of TW serve were this not so ?

My own belief is that whoever gets the manager's nod, the Everton squad is well short of making any sort of challenge 'for honours,' as outside the 'first XI' the cupboard is bare. That Tosun gets a shout more than verifies this statement as so many of our fringe players should be plying their trade at a lower level.

Be that as it may, we'll beat enough of the teams below us to finish top half -so just be content !

Tony Abrahams
298 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:30:20
Took my thoughts from me there Brian, mate. I think Ancelotti has got to do better, the way he’s setting us up is to easy to play against at the minute, but how many of Everton’s team want to really run without the ball?

Bernard and Digne, both did it in the first half yesterday, one scored, one hit the post. Coleman tries to at times, but nobody else does, and it’s a big problem, because it’s easy for your opponents, when you keep playing in front of them.

I’d hate to be Allan and Doucouré at the minute though, because the system is massively exposing them, along with whoever plays right back, and Carlo Ancelotti has got move Rodríguez inside, instead of getting players to cover him, which is just leaving to many little gaps for teams to exploit at the minute, is how I’m seeing it.

Brian Williams
299 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:30:38
Derek, if people are content to state "the manager picked the wrong team" it's not unfair to ask "what team would you have picked?"
Brian Williams
300 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:37:56
Hiya Tony. How're you and the auld fella doin' mate?
Tony Everan
301 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:40:01
Brian, This lack of energy,mobility, drive and dynamism in our midfield is a problem that is t going away. Because we are so slow, the midfield reds an outlet to function. Richarlison.

Trying to shift it around to squeeze Sigurdsson into it is just madness, he doesn’t offer any relief to the pressure or expand the play.

I think Gomes or Delph is a better fit into the midfield rather than Sigurdsson, at least them two are midfielders. Even though they are not doing anywhere near enough.

I think the lessons learned of the last three games are

1 If Richarlison is out we have to replace him with Gordon who can offer an outlet for he midfielders with a bit of width, creativity and pace. Shoehorning Sigurdsson into the team is a non starter.

( If Carlo thinks Gordon is not ready then but someone who can give us that outlet when Richie out, who can supplement the attack, Imsaila Starr, Diatta )

And / Or

2 We desperately need a mobile midfielder in the mold of Bruno Fernandes, Ward-Prowse. Someone with energy and buzz who can pass and play at a high tempo, close down fast and drive forward.

We will look like a different team when Richarlison returns, and here’s hoping he has a trouble free run now for the rest of the season.

The issues we are currently having are a stark forewarning for Brands and Ancelotti of what life will be like without Richarlison next season. ‘ IF ‘ we don’t make the right signings to compensate.

Joe McMahon
302 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:45:51
Brian @291, if you read my post properly I didn't actually criticise Carlo in the way you think I have.
Eddie Dunn
303 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:46:41
I listened to 5 Live today, a show called "the squad" mostly predictable chit-chat from youngish Londoners who seem to support all sorts of top 6 teams, but one of them talked about Ole at United. He said that Ole has inherited players from about 4 or 5 previous managers. Looking at their squad, it's a delight of riches and yet they have struggled to knit together consistently.

Now we know that Carlo has the same problem, only ours are all purchases at a cheaper store. Many of us often pick virtually the same line-up as the manager only to see what appears to make sense confound expectations.

It is simply that Carlo is trying to make the best of what he has. Apart from Doucoure, Allan and James the others have all let successive managers down.

I think we have to be patient and see who he brings in. The early table-topping has inflated hopes but we must remember that we finished 12th last season and if we end up 7th, it's progress.

Darren Hind
304 Posted 08/11/2020 at 15:51:14
You do make me smile Brian. If Carlo took us down, you would blame the tea lady.

When Doucoure Allan and James arrived here. The fanfare from people marveling at Ancelotti was deafening. This was "the better caliber of player he can attract" Go back and look at the threads.

Now you are telling us they cant compete the midfield's of Southampton and The mighty Newcastle and a Man united side who have been getting spanked by all and sundry

No wonder Carlo likes it here. 60m contract and an excuse factory manned by people who don't think he is responsible for anything.

I`ll tell you who I would have played Brian. The fella who cant stop scoring for PSG. It makes me laugh that people will defend Carlo by saying he doesnt have anyone to partner DCL in Richarlison`s absence

Who`s fault is that ?

Tony Hill
305 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:00:22
Eddie @303, what worries me is the absence of a cohesive Everton style. It's worried me for many years but Carlo isn't doing anything to cure it, despite early promise this season. If this were later Martinez, Allardyce, Silva or Koeman in charge they'd be getting dog's abuse.

Where are the precision, the concentration, the fitness, the appetite and determination? Nowhere to be seen, evaporated like the mist after 3 or 4 games. He needs to manage us out of it all, very quickly. Let's find a hard core. We've not had one for 33 years.

Carlo and Brands are sophisticated, self-possessed and well-dressed. Everything the team is not.

Jay Harris
306 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:00:58
My view is the players can do better, as can the manager. To say he is over the hill is absolutely ludicrous. To me, there is the unknown factor of what goes on behind the scenes.

Whilst I criticized his team selection and tactics against Southampton and Newcastle, I could not fault the setup yesterday and we were well in the game apart from really bad defensive mistakes.

We have by far the most lightweight squad in the top half of the table devoid of pace determination and goalscoring ability. Carlo might be magnifico but he is not a magician.

However, there is no question this squad should do better but none of us can put out finger on what is going wrong. Some blame the manager, many blame individuals like Siggy, some blame Kenwright, some blame Finch farm and some blame Brands.

The question I ask myself is which of our squad would get in a top 10 side let alone top 4, my answer is very short: Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison, Digne and maybe James. 6 managers can't all be bad so I conclude like a few others that we have to be patient and have a few more windows before we can hope for better things.

Tony Abrahams
307 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:06:53
I thought United beat Leipzig 5-0 last week. Southampton are flying near the top and were better than Everton on the day, whilst the Newcastle game was going nowhere (because we lacked craft and we lacked soul?) until they got an unbelievably bad penalty imo.

If the rumours were true, he tried to offload Sigurdson, for a reason, but that’s not an excuse for the way we are setting up, and any midfielder worth his salt, would be rubbing his hands before playing against Everton at the minute, because there is loads of space in the middle of the pitch, because one “midfielder” is trying to protect the space being vacated by one luxury player, which is leaving Allan exposed, whilst Sigurdson unfortunately, is “just everywhere” that the ball has just been.

I loved your description of Rodríguez the other week Darren, “he’s got soul, but he’s not a soldier” was brilliant I thought, so it’s the man who knows him better than anyone who has got to acknowledge this. Play the man with soul, in a position where he doesn’t need to be protected, and let everyone else just get on with their job?

John Pierce
308 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:19:17
The improvements are there, so are the regressions. We’ve seen a first XI that can compete and that Carlo hasn’t yet found a combination to compensate for injuries and suspensions. That’s been a big concern. His desire to pick unfit players, and lean on players who have consistently underperformed is not a great look. I’ve been particularly critical of his tactics in the last three games.

Unlike those before him he keeps picking up points and hasn’t gone on bad runs. This is the first back to back league defeats in his tenure.

He’s comfortably better than what we’ve had, but is that good enough? At the moment, for me, yes it is.

Richarlison will restore the balance, and he needs to atone for a truly poor decision, that’s not on Carlo. The root of the problem for me is our midfield and the lack of No6. I think a proper disciplined player could release both Doucoure and Allan, screen/support the back four.

Carlo is a bit of Curate’s egg, but at this moment going in the right direction.

Ricky Oak
309 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:24:51
How would you feel if, every time you got the ball, you got snide fouled, then every time you tried to get the ball, you got blown up for fouling?

God forbid if you do accidentally foul, that's an instant card, yellow at least, while waiting with bated breath in case it's red... would it be disheartening?

That's fundamental to what our lads have to put up with. How come, as soon as they leave Everton, most players turn into the stars they're meant to be?

I wouldn't be surprised if Tosun went to Palace, he'd be prolific within 10 games, at least he'd probably be called 'Toe-son' rather than 'Toss-un". It's so insulting how we as a club get spoken to/about. I would just be happy if someone fought back once.

Raymond Fox
310 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:26:52
Good post Jay.

When other teams have played the same games as us we will probably be 8th -10th.
Even the media joined in the hype when things went our way early in the season, but I doubt if any of us were convinced that those results would become the norm.
This is Everton, we except the wheels to come off at some point don't we.

James Head
311 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:28:14
I'm with you Brian # 295, the lack of pace, movement and dynamism in our midfield is at the route of the problem, soggy Sigurdsson needs to be benched and James moved inside, let's give ourselves more attacking options with Richarlison down one flank and Gordon or Iwobi on the other and maybe we can get some decent crosses into the box for Calvert-Lewin to feed off. Allan needs to sit so we can free Doucouré to to get up and down the pitch, he's been getting written off by some but he's been told not to go forward so he can cover for all the old legs ahead of him.

Do some people really want to write Ancelotti off already? I couldn't give a fuck that he's on crazy money – that's the way it is these days... his profile, knowledge and status in world football is worth every penny.

Sam Hoare
312 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:37:47
Brian @295 even if our midfield is not as good as those of other teams (and I have my doubts) then whose fault is that?

Carlo bought in 3 midfielders this summer, 2 of who he's worked with before. He's also shipped out a fair few and had a big squad to choose from.

There's definitely room to go but Carlo is not operating with someone else's team still. And even if he was he has to take responsibility for how we setup and execute with what we have. To my eyes we have looked unorganised, unbalanced and unfit at times over the last 3 games. Of course a big part of this is Richarlison, whose dynamism and output both offensively and defensively are a huge part of Carlo's preferred system. But we cannot rely on him.

I like Carlo. Nice guy with an incredible CV. But I was concerned at our form post lockdown, which was really quite dire. This season we obviously started well, the Spurs game especially was excellent, but it would seem teams have quickly adjusted and target our right hand side where Rodriguez leaves gaps.

After the international break we should, barring usual international disasters, have as clean a bill of health as we've had in a very long time, with Holgate, Branthwaite, Tosun and even Gbamin back. There will be no excuse with that squad and a handful of talents in the U23s if Carlo can not get us in or very near the top 6/7.

Brian Williams
313 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:45:21
Just watching the shite's game v City and I thought it was stuck on x2 on the Sky box.

Another soft penalty as well. Mane's just been tackled on the halfway line much more robustly than the "penalty" incident and surprise surprise he stayed on his feet and kept going.

Joe McMahon
314 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:51:37
Brain in a season Liverpool, Man U, Spurs and Leicester will get more penalties than Everton do in 10 years. The bias Its sickening. Although Leicester penalties wont be as many when Vardy retires.
Eddie Dunn
315 Posted 08/11/2020 at 16:57:21
Tony- brilliant post.

Mane is ruining football, it is becoming non-contact, unless you are Harry Maguire.

Tony Hill
316 Posted 08/11/2020 at 17:04:09
Sam @312, we have no chance for so long as mediocrity is excused on here as part of a process.
Sam Hoare
317 Posted 08/11/2020 at 17:24:51
Tony@316, I sincerely hope that whatever happens on these pages has no bearing at all on our results! Or else that’s a very worrying indictment.
Rob Halligan
318 Posted 08/11/2020 at 17:31:42
Brian # 313. "Mane stayed on his feet". Funniest thing I've heard in years. If he was stuck in cement he'd still find a way to topple over.
Tony Hill
319 Posted 08/11/2020 at 17:37:09
Sam @317, yes it would be terminal. But some views on here are reflective of the club's philosophy: success is always in the future. For those in power at the club, that view is convenient; for those on here, it is wishful thinking.
Conor McCourt
320 Posted 08/11/2020 at 17:41:41
Ian @296- In the words of a complete hypocrite "wow just fucking wow".
Ian Horan
321 Posted 08/11/2020 at 17:48:30
Conor@320 "wow" hypercrite can you provided some context???
Paul Birmingham
322 Posted 08/11/2020 at 17:51:57
Each to their own, and rightfully acknowledged by all the last x3 performances have not been good enough.

Let’s see when JP G, return, and if he can play as a CDM, as he did at Mainz.

And Richarlison, on his return will hopefully, boost moral in the squad and on TW.

The next x3 games, Fulham, Leeds and Burnley are winnable but the formation and shape issues seen and exposed the last month, will need to be fixed.

Patrick McFarlane
323 Posted 08/11/2020 at 18:07:51
Paul #322
Not wishing to have a go at you personally, but that phrase x or y game is winnable annoys me to the nth degree, every single game is winnable but obviously there are caveats relating to player'availability, form e.t.c.

Unfortunately, I think Everton have made a habit of not winning these winnable games and losing the games that most observers believed that they would lose before a ball is kicked.

The most important fixture is Fulham away and yes Everton should be more than capable of winning it, but will they? If they fail at the Cottage, then the following match becomes psychologically more difficult.

Tony Marsh
324 Posted 08/11/2020 at 18:24:44
Carlo is not the genius many of you think he is.!!! I said it last season that Ancelloti is way past his best its obvious. The end of last seasons campaign was horrendous and as bad as any of the Koeman/Silva years and its continued in to this new season.

Pickford, Sigurdsson, Coleman, Iwobi my God what' is Carlo thinking?? Letting Kean go out on loan with just DCL as the clubs only striker is mind boggling. I don't count Tosun he is Sunday League level.

The appointment of Ancelloti was another box ticking excersise by the club. Bring in a big name to appease the fans trouble is the big name is nearer70 years old than he is 50. We've taken Carlo on the way down and its nothing new

I am sick to death of this club being a pension fund for washed up players and managers.

I wanted Brenda Rodgers when he was going to leave Celtic exactly what we needed. Look at the Saints manager Ralph Hutenshuil absolute gem. Saints also found Pochetino. Why do we always get stuck with useless duds.?? Let's face it Ancelloti is an exact replica of Marco Silva and making the same mistakes with the same players that got Silva the sack.

In all honesty we should of lost the recent Derby game and that should now be 4 losses on the spin. Relegation form if ever there was such a thing.

So big deal we beat Palace, West Brom, Salford, Fleetwood etc I never believed the hype. We conceded 2 in every game now and only thing Carlo can think of doing to stop the rot. is playi Sigurdsson in diffrent positions every week. I fucking give up.

Tom Bowers
325 Posted 08/11/2020 at 18:46:53
When Everton are in a malaise like they are now and at certain times last season one always wonders how long it will last.

Thank God there is no game next week and there is a lot of time for Carlo to ponder what has been going wrong.

It's all too easy to blame injuries and suspensions but I think the bottom line is that the squad just isn't good enough yet.

It was nice to get some early wins but there were still concerns that we were hoping would disappear but after the RS game it all went pear shaped. We lost Richie and almost the game at the death and it had a big effect we didn't expect.

No game is easy and Fulham are starting to play a little better since they got Robinson and Lookman but once again we will expect to win it but they have to show a much better mental attitude and get the defensive side of things sorted out.

Jason Wilkinson
326 Posted 08/11/2020 at 18:49:11
Poor in midfield. We lost the battle against the RS. We got bypassed by Saints. We were too slow against Newcastle. Out thought by Utd.
Four games. 1 point. Poor midfield in all four matches.
What happened to the 'box to box' midfielder we bought? (Doucouré)
Allen did not cover himself in glory yesterday.
James was quiet. Maybe he isn't fit.
Sigurdsson, Gomes & Davis have all shown the ceiling of their ability.
Maybe time to shake it up a bit and play Gordon, Iwobi, Bernard & Allen as the starting midfield 4.
Tony Abrahams
327 Posted 08/11/2020 at 18:53:26
There is an article in The Guardian, about handball, and it sums up football for me right now. I wish I could download stuff, but the title is “strict rulings on unseen handball microcrimes are ruining football”.

I honestly stopped watching the Liverpool game after the ref gave that penalty, because as much as I hate Liverpool, I love football more, even if the bastard lawmakers are doing their best to spoil the once beautiful game.

Steven Astley
328 Posted 08/11/2020 at 18:55:00
Should really have been 4 losses on the bounce. Carlo needs to stop the rot, quickly.
Jay Harris
329 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:05:47
City, Wolves, City, West Ham, Man U, Leeds and Arsenal all still below us even though we haven't won in 4 games. Does that make all those managers bad too.
We have seen some green seeds this season lets get behind the manager and the players until the next window and see where that takes us.
Patrick McFarlane
331 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:15:18
Below is a link to the article you mention but from a different site to the Guardian. Love this description too, Is a wonder goal really a wonder goal when skilled defenders are reduced to bouncing around with their arms behind their back like a troupe of skinheads dancing to Jimmy Cliff?


Joe McMahon
332 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:15:59
Paul @ 322 - The next x3 games, Fulham, Leeds and Burnley are winnable. With due respect how many times is this said season after season. If we won them we would be playing CL football and winning silverware. We never do and we ain't.
Hugh Jenkins
333 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:29:08
Paul (322) as you say - hopefully and at long last, Gbamin will "burst" onto the scene to scintillate us with his skills and prove to be the "missing link" or "Last piece of the jigsaw", to borrow some well used and hackneyed footballing phrases.

If he does come back and proves his worth, we then have a potential midfield of Allan, Doucoure, Gbamin and ??? Who does everyone reckon would be the best 4th man in that line-up?

Tony Abrahams
334 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:36:20
That's the one, Patrick, and it was ironic to me that the article mentions the penalty United got in Paris, because that was the day football slowly started dying imo, mate.
Sam Hoare
335 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:38:59
Hugh @333 no 4th man needed. That's your midfield 3 with either Allan or (more likely Gbamin) sitting. You then allow Allan and Doucouré to press much higher because they have a mobile, energetic ball winner behind them to cover gaps.

A central 3 with that energy and dynamism hopefully gives more license to the front three to stay up top and be in position to quickly take advantage of the turnovers.

Paul Birmingham
336 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:42:52
Joe, I’ve said winnable, as every game is, but like yourself, I err on caution, as it’s been decades of false dawns.

In the current form, Everton, would struggle to beat a Sunday morning pub, let alone beat Fulham.

You win games by shooting and creating chances, and Id like to see, the stats for the chances made and shots on goal, the last x3 games. Probably very few chances and shots too.

You could say why are they - the players bothering, are they really serious, about trying to win games for Everton?

Its the hope that kills you and supporting Everton has an acknowledged public health warning.

Next Saturday, early morning, I’ll be fishing in the Mersey, so the weekend won’t be totally spoiled, I might catch SFA, but I get as much enjoyment from the fishing these days, as I do from the match.

Carlo must get the shape and formation, right, and this means putting Hames, if he’s fit in a free central role behind DCL. Alan and Dacoure are good players but are being over exposed, and the last x4 games, have proved this.

I hope when JP G, returns, he’s fully fit, and could play like he did for Mainz.

Crap happens in life, let’s see the backbone and guts in this squad starting at Fulham.

Brian Murray
337 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:50:34

We are still waiting for Gomes to show us his Valencia form so don't hold your breath on that. Having said that Man City and the shite playing into our hands drawing today. We have them exactly where we want them! Bit of Street End black humour.

Joe McMahon
338 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:51:16
No worries Paul. I understand the fishing, I did it years ago and thinking of it again, I like the peaceful side to it, particularly after a difficult week at work. I had a bad feeling about yesterdays match so decided to go walking on the moors with my other half instead. I'm sure I feel like many of us, only Everton can ruin weekends
Paul Birmingham
339 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:55:16
That’s the spirit, Joe, and all considered, TW, is a great out let for Evertonians, and for me, it helps the Kama, as does the fishing.

Tight lines, next time your fishing!

Martin Berry
340 Posted 08/11/2020 at 19:57:34
One thing is for sure: Calvert-Lewin must have support, someone getting close in a blue shirt, the poor lad can't do it when three defenders are around him.

We need to be quicker on the break which worked at times with Digne and Bernard but not happening on the other side. Matters only improved when the much-maligned Iwobi made an appearance.

James Head
341 Posted 08/11/2020 at 20:52:04
Financially Sigurdsson is the worst signing in our history but I've witnessed Mikey Walsh, the inimitable Mick Ferguson and Per Krøldrup, I've witnessed some guff since the early '70s but never so little heart and fight as I've seen since we got some financial backing.

Go and get Barkley back and give Grealish whatever he wants, let's start to rebuild with youth and vitality, I'm sick of the overpaid mercenaries.

Len Hawkins
342 Posted 08/11/2020 at 21:02:41
The thing that got me yesterday was the amount of time the ball was being passed backwards and forwards across the pitch by our defenders. I may be old fashioned but does anyone remember a team winning without going into the opponents half?

The number of times whilst the defenders played amongst themselves the odd pass forward was returned or given straight to the opposition. How the hell those tactics used by 4 managers on the bounce is going to make us successful I haven't a clue.

Laurie Hartley
343 Posted 08/11/2020 at 21:59:58
I said above that I thought Carlo Ancelotti got his selection wrong but turning on him after 8 games (not 10) isn't going to help this club.

We have been hammered mercilessly by the press since the derby, had injuries to key players, unfair yellow cards, a joke of a penalty against Newcastle, and a joke of a red card for Digne. I tipped this after the derby and it won't end there.

I am not a Pickford fan either but remarkably the only damn person that acknowledged he had been pushed in the chest before he dropped that ball was the man who pushed him – Maguire.

Why don't we try something different – like getting behind Ancelloti?

Roger Helm
344 Posted 08/11/2020 at 22:32:26
Carlo Ancelotti's last window was reasonably good but it will take a few more to dump the slowcoaches and recruit some players with a bit of energy.
Soren Moyer
345 Posted 08/11/2020 at 23:50:21
It is not Carlo's fault. We just have a big pile of shite players. Untill we get rid of them, this is what we are going to get!!! It doesn't matter if we have Guardiola or whoever as manager.
Derek Knox
346 Posted 09/11/2020 at 02:59:07
While I agree that some players have past their sell-by date, and lack the drive and killer instinct needed in matches to be successful. It must also be acknowledged that although Carlo has done reasonably well in his ' first window ' however we can't just keep getting players in, without shipping a few out, especially those on megabuck wages.

Bearing in mind that he inherited what was basically a mis-match of players courtesy of Koeman, Walsh, Allardyce and Silva. So he has had to work with whatever tools were in his box.

I think he thought that some were 'salvageable' but that doesn't appear to be the case on evidence of the last 4 matches.

David Hamilton
347 Posted 09/11/2020 at 03:26:06
For their 2nd goal, the ball was played to Rashford in acres of space just outside the penalty area and in the middle of the pitch. Had had plenty of time to play it out to the wing unchallenged and then ran into the penalty area completely on his own (no-one tracking him).

Absolutely abysmal stuff and it's hard to imagine that any other team would give him so much space. It was as if he was being completely ignored. What's wrong with our lot?

Alan J Thompson
348 Posted 09/11/2020 at 04:53:58
There is talk that Mr Ancelotti's selections are wrong and it is difficult to argue against when the same players seem to perform so ineffectively. But to say that the answer may be the "return" of Gbamin or moving a young central defender or recently arrived young left-back into midfield is really grasping at straws.

If it is just about playing those who will put in more effort then I would prefer some of our youngsters who do actually play in those positions being given a few full games at least and certainly if they have a natural attacking game.

Jim Bennings
349 Posted 09/11/2020 at 05:49:53
I agree Alan.

To put any kind of expectations of Gbamin would be frankly insane, the lad hasn't kicked a ball for 15 months, had never played in the Premier League before and we don't know if he's even good enough yet.

Sometimes we have this vision about a certain player that isn't in the team during a bad run that he's the saviour and the answer to all problems but the actual fact is it's usually about players we don't possess at the club.

Gbamin may be great but he's not the answer to our lack of pace in wide area's, he's not going to help our lack of support for Calvert-Lewin, no more than currently Allan is doing or Doucoure or Gomes or Davies before him when he played last season.

For me there's still about three or four really good players we need to sign before we can move higher than 9th or 10th that's my view on it.

We have seen the limitations of the squad laid bare with one or two injuries, it's as bad as it was at the end of last season.

Trouble is we keep signing central midfielder's that don't offer any creativity or goal threat, not saying they are bad players, they are not, but with our future signings we need to be more attack-minded.

In the meantime a switch to Number 10 for either Bernard or James Rodriguez might just be the way forward.

Jim Bennings
350 Posted 09/11/2020 at 05:59:13
If I was Carlo right now and injuries permitted it I'd stick with a team of


Mina (until the others fully fit)

Rodriguez (number 10)
Iwobi (right)


I think we could get more from Iwobi on the right than we do left, I also think James isn't working with Coleman on the right because not tracking back is burdening Seamus at 31.

James for me at number 10 would be massively productive, let him play where he can hurt teams.

Bernard if he's to feature he should now do so only behind Calvert-Lewin and let him again get in where his intelligence can cause problems.

Gordon should be coming in for more game time when Richarlison is out.

The thing with Carlo is he needs to stop flogging a dead horse, he's got options available and different area's he can use players but he's shown a rather annoying reluctance to be flexible, falling into similar past Everton manager's bad habits.

Marc Hints
351 Posted 09/11/2020 at 07:30:39
Just looked at the table this morning and we are now 7th! what a complete and utter let down these Everton players are once again, common denominator I can see is everytime Sigurdsson plays we struggle. I am losing faith with Carlo, seems to be the same mistakes that other managers got the sack for. No pace on the wings, Doucoure suddenly doesn't look like he knows what he is doing, Allan having to cover more ground because watching Gylfi closely, he seems to point to players where to play the ball but never shows for it and I have never seem a midfielder in my lifetime that cannot tackle for love or money
Hugh Jenkins
352 Posted 09/11/2020 at 08:41:59
Marc (351) - 7th yes - but only 5 points off 1st. Three wins for us and two draws and a loss for any of the teams above, will show a very different picture.
We've just had a "bad patch", all teams go through it.
Hopefully we will now come out of the "bad patch" and resume where we were prior to the derby.
We have said it often, in the past, but now I do believe we are a team in "transition".
A couple more good signings in January and we will look a very different proposition to the team that finished last season.
Hugh Jenkins
353 Posted 09/11/2020 at 08:53:10
Sam (335) - Yes - when you look at it like that, if all out first XI are fit (including Gbamin) and he is as effective as we hoped, when we signed him, he might well be the "last piece of the jigsaw".
Here's hoping!
Marc Hints
354 Posted 09/11/2020 at 09:31:24
Hugh#352 Thanks for bringing me back down to Earth, was a bit tamping this morning, but hopefully your right and a couple of signings and another good summer window next year we will be competing even better.
Roger Helm
355 Posted 09/11/2020 at 10:20:02
Jim @ 350 beat me to it with his line-up. James can’t defend so leave him to do his creative stuff and protect the right back with someone else.
Craig Walker
356 Posted 09/11/2020 at 11:28:36
Let's get things into perspective. When we won 3 games on the trot, we weren't going to "challenge the top 4" or "even win it". Similarly, we've lost 3 games on the bounce and we aren't going to get relegated. We have some good players in Richarlison, James, DCL, Allan, Doucoure, Digne. Unfortunately, we have too many who are simply not good enough for where we aspire to be - I sound like a broken record. Sig, Bernard, Delph, Pickford, Mina, Iwobi, Tosun, Kenny, Davies aren't good enough, I'm afraid. We're 7th or 8th and that's about where I'd put us. Teams likes Wolves and Leicester are better than we are, in my opinion. They play with a higher tempo and possess more of a goal threat.

We're still in a transition where we need to offload the deadwood and get in better players. I agree that letting two forwards go and not replacing them was only going to result in what we're seeing now.

I do think that sometimes we think we are better than we actually are. There were a lot of people on TW saying that Josh King isn't good enough for us and neither was Fraser or Wilson. I think all three of those would have improved our team. Bad management has wasted a glorious opportunity for our club to progress and we are still dealing with that.

We need to strengthen in January and carry on with the clear-out.

John Boswell
357 Posted 09/11/2020 at 11:45:02
I suspect that the crises with injuries to our centre backs led to a change of direction during the final days of the summer window and the board bought cover for the back line.
I expect that a pacy wide player will arrive in January, later than planned!
I also expect further mid field options in January and some more off loading from those not wanted. COYB
Christy Ring
358 Posted 09/11/2020 at 13:40:14
Just watching Sky Sports earlier, analysing our game. They picked out Sigurdsson yet again, he was completely at fault for the first goal. It showed Fernandes, beside him, then moving into the box, to score, and Siggy pointing, that's all, not following his man, just standing looking. He can't run, he definitely doesn't tackle, and his corners and freekicks don't get past the first man. What does Carlo see in him? He's been brought off in every game he starts, I'd say he doesn't even work up a sweat, doesn't Davies deserve a chance?
Ian Horan
359 Posted 09/11/2020 at 13:55:07
Christy, Siggy was passing him on to a defender as Utd developed an overload on Seamus, Seamus failed to pressure Shaw. Seamus then turned side on when the cross was hit. So Seamus, the CBs are all culprits not just Siggy. Did sky comment on the push by utds cb on Pickford
Michael Connelly
360 Posted 09/11/2020 at 14:06:33
In agreement with Craig #356, and to summarise in 6 words: Our Squad is Not Good Enough.

Richarlison is the twice the player of any of his replacements, when you look at what he offers defensively and offensively; It's like playing with 10.5 men when he is not in the side.

David Hayes
361 Posted 09/11/2020 at 14:09:52
A couple of below par performances, mainly due in my opinion to to the loss of Richarlison and the fact both Siggy and Gomes are finished and spent forces. The Deadwood merchants who list most of the squad on here are it in force, predictable and unrealistic, this is not football in the park, where get rid of him and give that lad a chance, blood the youngsters ect exist. As if contracts and finance do not apply, just ship them out and get whoever I think might fit in instead. Coaching discipline and playing to your strengths is what makes a effective unit. The touches of quality at vital moments win games. The current dip in form is solely due the lack of a combative midfield and no plan B to cope with injuries ect. This is what the manager has to adapt to and Carlo can't adapt, he needs more time to fix the midfield, he will do this but it's not a quick fix. Let's hope he stays around long enough to do it.
Christy Ring
362 Posted 09/11/2020 at 14:24:50
Ian#359 Completely disagree, it was his man, he just pointed, and he just stood there marking thin air. The centrebacks were covering Martial and Rashford and Fernandes was free, his fault. They discussed Maguire incident, and agreed, it should have been a free out.
John Kavanagh
363 Posted 09/11/2020 at 16:01:39
The fact that Iwobi's presence improved things says everything about just how poor a player Sigurdsson is. He is basically using us as a free training facility between appearances for the mighty Iceland and we are paying him £100,000 plus a week for the privilege. He's been getting away with this for two seasons now. Model professional my arse. Big Dunc wouldn't allow wasters like that anywhere near an Everton shirt. It's a shame he didn't see himself as experienced enough for the job.

We are a team lacking in energy and forward thinking. The continuing mistreatment of Gordon by Carlo preferring players who aren't fit, can't pass, cross the ball, speed up to walking pace or even provide a half chance for DCL over 90 minutes is beyond mystifying. I'm half expecting several clubs will offer Gordon playing time on a permanent basis come January. We are wasting his talent. Sadly, I hope the lad goes for the sake of his career.

The season is basically over now as far as Europe is concerned and we will be in our usual place by Christmas looking nervously down the table. Thank God we didn't get the RS for the opening fixture.

Paul Hewitt
364 Posted 09/11/2020 at 16:12:23
John@363. We have only played 8 league games. How the hell can the season be over?
Conor McCourt
365 Posted 09/11/2020 at 16:20:51
Brian @291- I agree with you that any criticism should be both constructive and fair. I also agree that Carlo has mitigating factors working against him and it's a bit silly to call for his head now and he should get at least until the end of the season to see how things stand.

However what some ToffeeWebbers must also consider is that there are supporters who doubt Carlo is the man to take us forward and he must offer evidence that we are misguided. You will actually find that those of us who are often the most critical when things are going well are also not the first to put the boot in when the shit hits the fan because we are probably better prepared for it.

Carlo can certainly make the case
1-over the last few games we have lost key players while James has definitely been constricted by his injury.
2-we need our first eleven to compete as our subs have let other managers down and results so far back this up.
3-I still can't believe it was his decision to loan out Kean and Theo and bring in Godfrey and so he should get backing in January and a little understanding that he has been constrained.
4-we are pointswise not far off where we should be and the season is very much alive with key players now available.

But likewise there seems part of our fan base that just don't want any criticism of Carlo, whether constructive or not, and are often proffering bullshit as fact in attempting to justify some poor decisions.

1-Carlo's midfield signings have improved the team. This I believe has little merit. Of course being new signings they are hungrier and of better quality and character currently than your Delph,Siggy and Schneids but they have solved nothing.
We are weak defensively as they offer no protection, the intensity and dynamism they were allegedly to bring is below average at a push.

2- Carlo has not bought what was required. We needed a holding midfielder, a right back, right winger and more youth and energy in the middle of the park. As Brilliant as James is we have a catalogue of number tens and he has added another two midfielders who can't defend or assist to add to about five already there. Even some on this thread who mistakenly believed Allan to be a world class defensive midfielder have astutely abandoned ship and proposed playing him further forward.

3-the latest Carlo assertion to do the rounds is that Gordon must be shit or have a bad attitude in training to justify exclusion. This doesn't take into consideration that he's been sub in some games which contradicts this account. In reality Carlo throughout his career has sided with experience over youth. Indeed Keans desire to seek a loan can be traced to post Lockdown when Dominic needed a rest, Ricky could have dropped wide or if Theo had no future he could have been jettisoned but none of the above happened. Gordon's form and skill set when Richarlison was out was badly needed. No excuses.

4-Carlo's reign so far has been one of tactical master classes or abject failures with only the Tottenham game a shining beacon. We encounter the same issues of fitness, motivation, energy and lack of identity time and again.

5- It's damning that the ONLY 2 players I believe he has improved is definitely Dominic and possibly Keane. Some I think may also have regressed under his stewardship.

The international break has come at a good time for both Carlo and the squad alike.

Derek Taylor
366 Posted 09/11/2020 at 19:39:03
Well put, Connor! We are now back at the level we were in David Moyes's heyday. Certainly nowhere near the quality in evidence in the early times of Martinez.

To me, Ancelotti is a decent manager who will see us safely into Bramley-Moore Dock in top half. Expect more and you will be disappointed so accept that 'Europe' is a generation away – and enjoy!

Grant Rorrison
367 Posted 09/11/2020 at 19:53:24
Why do certain players always get mentioned in lists of 'good players' or 'great signings' without any rhyme or reason for it? Not going to get into names but do people even think before they write or do they just recite the same shit as each other?

Always wondered how we can make so many 'good signings' or have 'good teams' yet win nothing and not look like winning anything either in decades. Mystifying.

Bobby Mallon
368 Posted 09/11/2020 at 21:31:27
Conor @365, there are always supporters that will want Carlo's head, like Big Sam's and every other manager we have had. What Carlo needs is 5 or 6 years in charge and plenty of time to get it right.

We are a mid-table club that is aspiring to get into the top 6 and it won't ever happen if we keep changing management. It's the players that need changing as they are the ones who kick the ball, week-in & week-out.

John Kavanagh
369 Posted 10/11/2020 at 00:31:04
Paul @364. I said 'over as far as Europe is concerned'; ie, I simply cannot see us being anywhere near a Champions League spot this season if we continue at current levels of performance and consistency and persist with the likes of Delph and Sigurdsson. Even with the return of Richarlison, I cannot see us achieving that target. After all, Richie is not the Messiah, he's just a naughty boy.
Michael Connelly
370 Posted 10/11/2020 at 14:16:36
Derek @366. Yes, you would have to say that based on his managerial record of 15-20 odd major titles won, including 3 Champions Leagues, that Ancelotti is a 'decent' manager.

Well, he won those at clubs that always have the best players, and would win anyway, I hear you say.

Well, let him pull in the best players to our club, and repeat the feat, I would say.

But, I can't wait longer than one transfer window, I hear you say.

And therein lies the problem of the stereotypical impatient football fan, I would say.

Patrick McFarlane
371 Posted 10/11/2020 at 15:18:51
Whether we are in favour of Carlo or not, he is Moshiri's choice to take Everton FC into the new era at a new stadium. Unless there is a catastrophic run of form and we become embroiled in a full-on relegation battle, at any point, until we leave Goodison, Carlo will remain in situ, but I do wonder why we never approached Garry Monk :)

Jay Harris
372 Posted 10/11/2020 at 15:34:26
Why do we panic or rejoice after a few games. Every team has a purple patch and a bad patch.

There is no doubt in my mind that Carlo has improved the team both by acquisition and by the fact our pass success rate has improved tremendously.
Cast your minds back to how many times our MF misplaced or mistimed a pass to give it to the opposition in the past few seasons.

What we are up against is a number of other teams have progressed too.
Southampton and Villa are light years ahead of the teams they were last season.

I remeber most posters saying that we needed to be patient it would take a few transfer windows to improve the team sufficiently but because we got off to a flying start we all raised our expectations and feel deflated at some shocking results.

But we need to realise the league is a marathon not a sprint and with virtually no preseason every team will struggle with injuries or poor form throughout the season.

For me Carlo is the manager we should have had much earlier because certain forces have been established at Finch Farm and in the club that will take a while to eradicate.

Once the culture, comradery and unified force is restored then we can think of titles and trophies. In the meantime enjoy the ride but it will be bumpy along the way and it may need a government health warning.

Dan Nulty
373 Posted 10/11/2020 at 15:51:58
Agree with that Jay. If we had gone into this season with the same starting 11 as last I think we would more than likely be winless now.

We've missed Richarlison badly as he makes other teams defend so differently. We have spent an awful lot of money on dross, there is no denying that and our strength in depth is woeful.

I think last season in particular took its toll on a lot of the players and sometimes you just need a fresh start. Even Walcott looks half decent now and he was flipping hopeless.

Kean had clearly decided Everton wasn't for him. Good news is that no option to buy agreed for PSG so that the more he bangs them in the more his price goes up. At worst he comes back and shows us what he can do.

There is more talk of Isco joining which could be cheap and quality. I feel we really, really need to add some pace though. Without Richarlison we are too easy to defend against, as evidenced by the Utd game. We didn't stretch them at all and they are woeful at the back.

Next 3 games are winnable before the tough Christmas run. We could do with 9 points so hopefully everyone comes back fit and well from international duty.

Brian Williams
374 Posted 10/11/2020 at 16:40:23
Jay I think it's due to the fact that the performances are poles apart and people (me included) can't fathom out how a team can completely change from one week to the next. To go from the extremes of playing some great football to being completely shite.
If one thing is guaranteed with Everton it's that we're consistently inconsistent.

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