City's unrelenting quality and workrate win out

Criminal (yet again) he isn't starting with King with Calvert-Lewin out. Looked decent when he came on and was unlucky not to get a debut goal. Only one result coming today and it won't be a good one for us.

Sigurdsson a false 9 here? Enlighten me?

Team choice looks better but set up will be key... set up like we did the other night and it could be a cricket score.

Heres hopeful we see the Dr Jekyll...

It's going to be a very long night. At very, very, very most a hard-fought draw.

What was the point in signing King if he doesn't play when Calvert-Lewin is out?

Looks like the Wolves set up when many mistakenly thought it would be a back three with two wing backs. More likely a flat back four with Digne pushed up to left mid as he was – very effectively – in that game.

I hope Doucouré has got some puff back, because he looked well off the pace all game v Fulham. Be nice to see Iwobi repeat his performance from that Wolves game, otherwise with just him and Richarlison not a great deal of pace in midfield or forward.

Big responsibility on Sigurdsson tonight.

A big ask. City conceded just 14 Premier League goals all season, five of those in a single game to Leicester. Just 7 conceded in total on the road. City on a 16 consecutive game-winning streak. 11 clean sheets across those games.

But as Carlo said yesterday, it's time for them to lose.

I love game day, me. No matter Everton's form or that of the opposition, I always believe we can win.

Not sure why anyone would want Josh King up top over Richarlison, unless you are basing it on the current form of our Brazilian. One was wanted by Barcelona the other by Fulham.

Eddie Howe is at Goodison

I'm happy with the team. The back 4 picked itself for this one, but you can't drop Digne so he has to play further forward, I'd have maybe moved Richarlison to the right side in Iwobi's place and started with King upfront, but he'll be on in the 2nd half, I'm sure. Hopefully we won't be trailing by too many at that point...

Decided not to watch this one or Saturday's game – I can only take so much ritual humiliation in one week.

Good luck to Everton FC, and let's hope the next 2 embarrassing defeats add more pressure on that excuse for a manager.

[Rolls eyes at ToffeeWebbers]

Looks a reasonable team to me. Not a huge fan of Richarlison up top. Usually wastes him and he struggles to get involved.

Was King actually playing at Bournemouth? Seems strange to loan him and then do anything to avoid playing him.

We're behind to a deflected shot, they created nothing in 30m of keep ball.

At 1-0 down we committed some bodies forward. We had 5 in the box for that goal - it's not a fluke that it drops to a blue shirt.

If we were brave in the last 10 minutes of the half, then it stands to reason that we were cowardly in the first 35. And have been in many games.

At times weve moved the ball about well but mostly looks like a training game for city.

Doucoure much improved and Tom playing very well.

Our number 10 non existent.

They will come at us ferociously second half and Aguero and De Bruyne to come on doesnt bode well.. James on for Sigurdsson.. this is a game for him.

Enjoyable game though

Yes they’re a good side but this is a game Everton can win! The way they are talking as if we shouldn’t be on the same pitch

We played more football with greater intensity in the opening five minutes tonight than we did all game v Fulham.

Of course City are the better team.

Of course they are dominating possession.

But they haven't really tested Pickford much and it was a huge deflection off Coleman to give them the lead.

Everton's football for our goal was excellent. Patient build up. Good pick out by Iwobi of Coleman. Great cross to Digne. Good first time shot and plenty of bodies in there to make sure the ball goes in the net.

All this with losing Mina in the first 15 minutes.

Enjoying this.

Disrupt their play as much as we can, niggles here niggles there and take the chance when it comes and who knows..
COYB

Spot on!

The praise they are heaping on city is astonishing! Yes we know they are good but 1 deflected shot they’ve had ! Owen has just said it was a brilliant hit by Foden ??!!

I’m going to do a keegan and say I’d love it if we beat these !!!!!!

How we're playing is on the counter. When a counter opportunity presents the players are looking for the quick progressive pass and getting bodies forward in support. This is not parking the bus or whatever you think you're watching. Against a team like them you have to pick your moments.

So yes Ernie, this is the plan it's not accidental.

Again, they created very little even with 70% possession. Their goal was something of a fluke, though in fairness, you don't shoot you don't score. Our goal was superior. Assuming we don't abandon the plan we have a genuine chance here. Of course, City have game-changers on the bench.

Everton are very disciplined, it’s obvious we need more going forward, but this City are relentless with the football, but if we was this disciplined on Sunday night, I’m sure we’d already be on 40 points. Keep concentrating Everton!!

Great effort to get 1 back. We largely nullified them 1st half but I never thought we'd get a goal back. I pulled a muscle from the cheering. Lets hope we keep the same intensity in the 2nd half

COME ON LADS!

I'm suggesting a balanced approach. Be brave on the ball. Carry the ball from midfield. Make runs from deep when you get the chance. In fact, all the things that happened for our goal.

And I would absolutely call that first half hour 'parking the bus'. Richarlison with his back to goal. Sigurdsson 30 metres behind him and two wingers on our full backs' toes isn't counter attacking football. If it quacks, it's a duck.

The second we take Davies off and put Sigurdsson in central midfield we lose all sense of competitiveness in the middle. Sigurdsson can only play in one position and against a certain style of play. He is not, and can not play as, a central midfielder.

What’s the point of having a centre forward in King to only put him on the wing?

James now just looks like he can’t be arsed.

Bizarre stuff.

Some good defensive tackles but chased shadows all evening.

We could gave gotten something from this game if King had started up top, I feel. My patience is wearing thin with Ancelotti's selections and substitutions...

We sit off every team and make them look like world beaters. It's crap and boring and no fun.

That's 17 wins on the spin for them. Too many good players for them with more on the bench.

The result was unsurprising but at least we scrapped against a better team...

Lost to a team we can only aspire to emulate at this stage in development.

None whatsoever.

We fought hard and lost to the best side in the country if not Europe. James failed to make an impact and doesn't put in much of a shift.

Roll on Saturday.

We had a go,we tried but class always tells in the end.

I agree with there, for most Tom's improvement is going unnoticed.

Saturday's match much more important and we will beat City in the cup next time round.
COYB.

We can not deny City are some team and are the closest in football terms I have ever seen to the brilliant Barcelona side of some years back.
It's just pass and move, pass and move and they just keep probing wearing teams down, I think they could win the CL this year.

City are by several country miles the best team we've played all season. How Pep has adjusted their style is very interesting.

Unlike Klopp who has attempted to continue his high intensity press all over the pitch with his asthmatics for a 3rd consecutive season, Pep isn't playing the close proximity tiki-taka football of his previous teams.

The ball still does most of the work, but they conserve more energy with quick interchanging and movement of every player. ALL can pop up anywhere on the pitch and be comfortable in almost any and every situation. It is a delight to behold.

That's not by accident. That's schooled and achieved by recruiting the right players able to perform it.

We are several grades below that level. The league is their's.

We were game enough. Far better than Sunday's poor fayre. Just not good enough.

Now to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and go again on Saturday.

Most will acknowledge that they were a simply better team but that abcess like pit of misery on here will be gleefully blaming Carlo for it all and mouthing off like he's got a backbone even though he'd be the first to give Kenwright the five-knuckle shuffle if he me him face to face.

Deflection, worldy and another Pickford error!

Plenty of fight and effort but clear gulf in class. Despite the ridiculous fawning of pundits!

Allan and DCL to come in and stick with same team for rest of the season!

Ernie - we broke (or tried to) when we could, including those first 30m. It has to be on before we send men bombing upfield or we'll get killed in transition, if a ball is forced and possession lost. They rarely gave the ball away those first 30 so chances were limited.

Anyways, Davies may have been tiring but taking him off (again) was a bad idea as Sigurdsson cannot play central midfield. He can't receive the ball on the half-turn, has no defensive positional sense and his tackling is weak whereas Davies is good at all these skills. He lost Mahrez for their second goal. Funny thing is, he actually played well behind Richarlison, very energetic active pressing and good linkup play; he does none of this when playing deeper and Ancelotti needs to see this and stop trusting him to play CM.

King showed little when he came on, unfortunately. He's going to need to really improve or I'd pass on him, even for £5m. Iwobi did OK but his final ball let him down once more.

Doucoure was back to his usual self, harassed them relentlessly. Got in good positions a couple times but it didn't fall quite right for him. Davies played well again. The backline were solid and coped well with the loss of Mina. Coleman handled Sterling efficiently. Godfrey likewise with Mahrez, but lost him as he cleverly drifted infield for the goal.

Richy had a good game up top, don't know why he is getting any criticism tbh.

I've had 35 F****** years of this.

Have you ever thought that it takes the average man in the UK 14 years to earn what the fraud Gylffi Sigurdsson gets paid in one month! (He's not the only one by the way. We have several).
I truly detest this current set of players, coaching staff and the modern game in general. It's really quite obscene. Someone please turn out the lights and lock up after me. I'm done.

Maybe he’s brought Davies off to keep him a little bit fresher for Saturday, but he battled away gamely, and although you could see he was going to get totally exposed for the goal, if Glyfi would have came back to help, then maybe Bernard wouldn’t have found himself two on one?

Not a night to criticise imo though, and just hope Allen was sick, and DCL, can also make it for the derby, with a final word on Manchester City, because even though they are the only team to ever do the domestic treble, they actually look like they’ve evolved.

I’ve not been Tom Davies’ biggest fan down the years but he’s been playing well and I thought he was our best players again tonight. Why take him off? Don’t understand why King didn’t start.

City are different class and there’s no disgrace in losing to them but we surrender possession so easily and are so slow in moving the ball. We never see our midfielders shoot.

I still think Sigurdsson is a luxury player who has one good game in 8. He played well in the Spurs game but he’s not good enough most weeks. Similarly with Iwobi.

On the plus side, I think Richarlison showed some effort tonight and did his best in trying to get us playing in their half. Pickford still worries me.

To go out on a limb I have to say I would have been delighted to even get a point but reallistically did not expect one. However I do think we can get something from our next game with energy, effort and a genuine desire to win. WE need at least fifteen windows to get anywhere near ManC. We just don't have the players or the money to challenge.

I will still remain an Evertonian for ever. I have been one for far too long to have any other option, and there are still no better options whatever happens win,lose or draw...C.O.Y.B.

When the cup exit is confirmed Carlo should start planning for next season by blooding youngsters and identifying wholesale squad changes for the summer (something that should have been done in the last window)

As if 😎

Without major reinforcements in the summer (MF essentially) then we will continue to struggle.

Couple of points though; lots of teams must sit off City and make them look like world beaters. It must only be because everyone sits off them that they are good.

Lucky rebound? Alternative take, great strike by Digne, unlucky not to score himself. Richarlison in a great position but it just evaded him. But, being in the right space at the right time bought him that "luck" when it came back off the post. Don't we want strikers to be in the right place in case a chance drops?

Beaten by a better team who are better than everyone else in the league.

Remember CA been here a year, so there's lot's of work to do. My concern with Everton is fitness levels and workrate; all teams look fitter than us.

We're miles away from Citteh but then again so is every other team.

We need 11 Doucoures, big, strong and athletic to even compete with them. Their skill level is miles above what we have and we have now become too reliant on DCL.

Football is a closed shop and tonight is part of the bigger picture I am always banging on about.

Commentry alone tells us which way they want football to go. There were times in the first half we passed around and commentry was silent.

City managed to sneak into the elite club just in time and even a lovely new stadium won't bring us into that category for a long time.

That was 11 world class internationals all very capable v 11 triers, chasing like kids and not enough ability to do something special.

The Third goal was Keane not concentrating or quick enough and Pickford fluffing the save, having got a full hand on the ball.

That Man City side will not win the Champions League.

Quality yes, but work rate we always have to atleast match, this we didn't.

And Sigurdsson effective during that period in the higher position. We all know that.

Allen, Doucoure and one of Davies (preferred at this point) or Gomes in the pocket behind them for the next match for me. The first two go and hunt / harry, the other make play.

On top of that they all rotate positions and have a number of player's that can score.

It would be a hard game with our strongest team never mind suffering another injury and having to shuffle players.

The real disappointing results and performances are against the Fulhams and Newcastles, not City.

We just have to keep going and improve.

I’m not saying we will beat City, a lot depends on who we’ve got available, but I’m sure we are going back to one game a week after Saturday, and this is something that needs to happen for a very small squad.

Ancellotti has made it smaller because he doesn’t seem to trust certain players, but I’m not criticising anything tonight!

I can honestly see them winning every league game until the end of the season, and also winning the champions league, as well as the carabao cup. We’ve just got to hope they have an off day for the FA cup game, and if not, then I hope they win that as well.

"People on this thread saying can't get too disappointed about tonight's game, I wonder if they were saying the same about the Fulham"

No, after Fulham they were saying what Justin Doone said in 112

I was in the Gwladys for all 80's glories and now we have a lad who's in a classroom full of reds, just him and one other lad are blue.

It's cruel world!

The passing and movement is still not there which means we create more problems for ourselves than the opposition do, but not tonight, City are a special team getting better and better and Everton are still lingering behind, tonight I wasn’t too disappointed, still hate losing, but the attitude and application was much better than Sunday, although still no consolation for that terrible performance, take quite a while to erase that from my memory.

"I've had 35 F****** years of this."

Think yourself lucky if it's just the 35. Your shift is just getting started mate

This was different. No comparisons or parallels. We have just been well beaten by the Champions elect, but in perspective of who we played in both matches, this does not compare whatsoever to Sunday.

City have this season in the bag, already.

An improvement on Sunday, which was the minimum, but at least we didn’t get totally whacked like our neighbours did.

Leipzig, gifted the RS, the game last night.

Show no fear and get in to them on Saturday.

Pivotal phase of this season, and interesting to see genuinely when the injured players, allegedly due back, will be available.

Everton FC, it’s the hope, that does kill you.

So downhill slalom for this week, to beat the RS.

We played a good strategic game and were in with a chance for 75m against an elite outfit. The second goal was a wonder-strike by a former player-of-the-year that is not even a guaranteed starter for them. We lost him momentarily, but fair play to Mahrez and not every goal is a defensive error. After that our changes didn't have the required impact and I think Carlo dropped the ball dropping Gylfi into midfield, where he's been repeatedly ineffective. The third goal killed us off. JP could do better, he gets enough on it though it was a powerful shot.

You need to keep your posts in check so they at least appear (to some) to be anything other than your humorous attempts at trolling. You can't wind people up if you're so transparent about posting ridiculous comments.

If you are really motivated to go to Wembley for a Final, one could go there with Tranmere Rovers – they reached the final by beating Oxford United 2-0.

The Final is in March this year and will play the winners of Sunderland and Lincoln City for the Pappa John's Trophy.

Oh and before you get to it again, Kean was not mismanaged. Get some new material mate.

More please.

City are playing a completely different game to the rest of us at the moment but some serious squad surgery in the summer is required to enable a top 4 challenge next season.

No is the answer.

Goodnight.

I thought we kept our shape well in the first half with a couple of counter attacks to frighten them.

Their 2nd goal was pass and move at its best though Digne could have gone with the run of Mahrez, nevertheless it was a top class finish. The 3rd goal a free shot from range, Pickford will be disappointed not to turn around the post.

I can accept a defeat against a superior team though how many of our players can say that they left everything out on the pitch?

City are masters at killing a game. Why no urgency once we went behind. Doucouré was my motm and broke the lines a few times running with the ball, a few others put a shift in. I would just like us to show more desire and physicality to win a game of football.

For the Derby, Davies needs to play and if Rodriguez plays he has to stay in the opposition half. He is becoming a liability in our own half.

Fowler must obviously read ToffeeWeb, every time Everton get beat, and I just hope the media are all spouting this mis-informed bollocks on Saturday night, especially because Everton have only won three league games at home, and two of them actually had a small crowd.

Don’t lose belief, unless you’ve had none to begin with, after all our opponents dropped into the old third division, at a time when their neighbours were winning everything, and look at City now👏👏

I have and I'm okay thanks. You're the one-trick pony here, mate. Why keep bringing up Alkadyce? The fella is a footnote as far as managers go. The fact you keep referencing him "Sam would get slated for this" to compare with Ancelotti is beyond stupid.

The problem seems to me to be that we cannot really tell; recent results suggest we are mediocre at best, but we have also seen spirited and exciting performances and very good results from this group of players.

The level that Man City have arrived at has put them in the frame for great success; that result was no disgrace, but is also a reminder of just how far we are from being anywhere near mixing it with Europe's best with this group of players.

Yep, we gave the ball back to them far too often with poor first touches and passes that were never on.

That City side was certainly not Barca at their best, Kyle Walker can be gotten at defensively and, in general, City rely on possession of the ball to keep their defense out of trouble.

And if like our performance tonight, if you give it back to them for free, they'll punish you.

I'd love us to go out there and play as much as you but we do that against Man City, with the huge imbalance in player spend, and we get blown away within 30 minutes. Simeone, with a far better team than Ancelotti has, never did this against Real, Barca etc.

I think you demonstrate the point with that – we too often do, they seldom do. Ergo they are a much better side.

Also, I can understand analysis of Carlo's tactics, his subs, his selections but, for fuck's sake, his coffee sipping? Anyone recall the famous picture of the England bench erupting in 1966 while Alf sat, apparently, unmoved. I enjoyed Carlo's reaction. Who wants a prancing fuckwit like Klopp. Heart on sleeve my bollocks.

I have had plenty to say about Pickford but I think it is harsh to blame him tonight. Not all shit is sombody's fault.

The man is 61 years old, probably isn't as nimble as he once was, blood pressure easily effected etc,

Also, Ancelotti has already said, the celebration side of scoring goals now is very different to what it used to be. Now we are all waiting on VAR a lot of the time. Personally I hate it.

Can't remember who said it but 'the hardest thing in football is to get the ball' or words to that effect. I find it hugely frustrating that we just give it away with such monotonous regularity.

Any team can take advantage of a vulnerable defence. Everton had the three chances at goal, scoring one. Other teams will take those other chances. The high line on free-kicks is a gift to a fast enterprising attacker. A good goalkeeper would have saved Man City's third goal.

The substitutions to take advantage of the vulnerable defence in the second half would consist of players to take advantage. James, the key player in this tactic, was a waste of space. Gave the ball away.

What Man City show is how bad other teams in the Premier League are.

On another day we might have got something out of that game but, with the half-hearted effort of the subs and those who stayed on the pitch running out of steam, there was only ever going to be one winner in that game.

Compliments to Davies and Doucouré for 120% workrate and thanks to James for gracing us with his presence on the pitch for 30 minutes but I would have much preferred to see that effort against Fulham and get 3 points.

Onwards to the most unpredictable derby ever.

I just hope Calvert-Lewin and Allan are fit.

"Ergo they are a much better side."

You have delightful insight and an exquisite ability to state obvious.

Man City looked different class to us. They look technically better as a team. They look stronger, fitter and create so much space for one another.
Pickford, Keane, Davies, Doucouré & Coleman all played well. Richarlison, Iwobi, Digne & Sigurdsson didnt do so well. Holgate & Godfrey were a little anonymous. Mina is very fragile. I saw nothing to suggest he was injured during play. I can only assume it is a long term weakness. Rodriguez & King had little effect on the game.

The balance in the squad still isn't quite right. A few more out and a few more in this coming summer.

Players who could be sold (if they want to go) Sigurdsson, Mina, Richarlison, Digne, Bernard, Gomes, Rodriguez & Holgate.

Players we need. Another Doucouré type, two wingers (wing backs) a Madison/ Grealish type, a centre-forward & a second striker to play in a 4-4-2.

Ancelotti has commented about transition. He knows how he wants us to play. We don't have the quality to play the style he wants. Brands has his work cut out to bridge the chasm between us and City.

We started the season a bit carefree. As soon as we played a team with more intensity & hard work we collapsed. A much more pragmatic approach has been adopted since... bringing a mixed bag of performance. Moshiri will have to tap his mate Alisher for more funds for us to get the quality required.

Everton, well work in progress or call it what you like. Until we get both of the above mid table is all we can be. Simply we are not good enough for top honours. Carlo is a very good manager but he must make us hard to beat. We are not going to spend another hundred million unless we sell big. Midfield needs more bite and pace on the wings. We don't stretch teams enough.

I'm not qualified to tell Carlo what to do but whatever the plan is it ain't working!

Keep safe all and take care.

The reason why Man City are a better team than Everton is not just about money because Everton managers since 2016 have spent £375 million in 4½ years. It's just Everton managers buying players whose first touch is not good enough, who then struggle to pass the ball decisively, quickly and accurately to another player.

All Man City managers do once they have those right players is for them to play in a game plan.

I noticed Ancellotti's criticism of the team post-match was the drop in performance against Fulham rather than this game. For me that is a good sign for the future.

How can I not agree tonight?

We lost that game tonight not because Man City were way beyond us in all aspects of the game, but because we have a formation that sits back and invites pressure; add to this they are psychologically fragile, just standard decision making and completing passes becomes problematic, they're choking to a lesser or greater degree.

Fulham: bottom of the table and a must win, we can't handle the pressure. Fulham are no Man City and we collapsed without a fight to them are Fulham better than us also?

We didn't really try in either game, it's pathetic. That City side was beatable, but you have to be prepared to try.

Ancelotti favours sitting back and hitting teams on the break at home; this might be because we don't have the players who are equipped to do any better or a conscious tactic of his, that he follows religiously. Whichever it is, it doesn't work.

Clearing out several forwards who weren't good enough this season was fair enough but not replacing them was a bit stupid. Of course we have King on a temporary basis, too early to judge if he's useful or not, but why no wide men with real pace and a few goals to add to a pretty feeble forward line?

Quite where we go from here is anybody's guess; this season is already done, bar a miracle in the FA Cup.

What I was pleased about was the numbers who broke forward, even into the City penalty area. They're just too good a side for us.

When David Moyes flipped us the bird after 11 years of failure, there were banks of grown men weeping in the stands like infants. Now, the same crew come on here calling one of the world's best a busted flush. Slating a team that won a humdinger against Spurs just a week ago, a bunch of losers.

I think the promise of brighter things upset some. They want to wallow in self-pity so when there are green shoots of positivity they stamp them out and hanker after the good old days of knife fights, ring-fenced stadium money etc.

That's the enduring problem Moshiri has created for himself and us by placing such faith in his own, and those whose role he enhances in the boardroom, when it comes to football judgement.

Mr Brands needs permission to sign a bloody big axe for himself this summer to rid Finch Farm of the deadwood infesting the place, and Mr Moshiri needs to wear a titanium jockstrap to survive the financial kick in the balls such action will necessarily incur.

I rest my case.

City gave us a lesson in how to play without the ball. How to create space and how not to lose possession. However, we absorbed their pressure exceptionally well and it required a flash of individual unstoppable brilliance from Mahrez to break our resolve.

I thought Digne looked sluggish. Perhaps it's time to rest him. Although without Calvert-Lewin as a recognised target man for him to aim for, his build up play evaporated. The Sigurdsson Richarlison combination seemed totally ineffective. It was almost impossible to visualise where our goals might come from.

James remains an enigma. Undoubtedly supremely talented, his game has seemingly gone off the boil. His vision evident in fits and starts, but certainly not enough for him to impose himself on the opposition. At this stage of our development, his flashes of brilliance seem a luxury that we can ill afford.

We can gain confidence even in defeat tonight. If we show the same resilience against Liverpool, then there is no reason why we can't get a result. Especially if big Dunc has them fired up! And at least we know after tonight's experience exactly what we are up against in the quarter-final. Yes, both games a huge ask, but neither an impossible task.

Did we ever have four home League games under any of those managers without fans in the ground to roar / boost / boo / do whatever it takes to spur the team on through vocal support, vocal criticism or both?

Answer - no.

All teams are suffering at home this season, but it feels like Everton more than most because the atmosphere at Goodison Park on a good day or night is so primal. I'd venture to suggest we give City much more of a game tonight under the lights in front of 40,000 baying Blues...

I would sincerely like to get past this episode of animosity within Everton's supporters but, every time I see a non-sequitur or just plain dumb-assed statement, I cannot help but launch a riposte.

I don't think the season ended on Sunday. Last time I looked, it ends in May.

Much to play for compared to this stage last season.

Riiiight.

"That City side" have given up six goals in three months. They haven't been behind for a single minute in any game since November. They're the best team on the planet right now and it ain't even close.

But all we had to do to beat them was try a little harder.

Sounds right.

(eye roll)

The nearest thing to the Everton 69-70 team you're likely to see. They make you look ordinary, they drag you out of position, they run you ragged and when they've nearly reduced you to a late in his US career Rooney-esque bent over, hands on knees, blowing for tugs, they keep going and score.

Anyway, onwards and upwards, who's up next? ... oh right.

How to blow 3 games in hand in 7 days – you never know though, we might dumbfound everybody... including, I think, ourselves, and win... and then again.

Ancelotti could have shuffled the pack and dealt any 11 he liked, it wouldn't have changed the end result – we weren't good enough... and didn't look likely to score without Richarlison's in-off fluke.

We tried to compete bu,t just as the 16 teams before us found out, they are just to strong. The best example was their third goal when with Coleman having the ball he passed it forward and it ended up at their keeper's feet, 12 passes later, Silva shot and scored.

This is what Everton are up against trying to compete to get into Europe,
and even this season it is going to be very difficult. There is no disgrace in losing to City. There is no problem losing, the problem this season is how you lose and who you lose to.

The season isn't won or lost on one game. It is decided over 38. If you're in the game, you still have a chance. We still do.

zWhat a defeatist attitude you have!

All of those derbies we've lost, none of the them were winnable either?

If you go into a game like that against City with the attitude "We can't win this," you won't win it!

Eyes rolling and head in hands.

As for us, we knew we were getting a defeat tonight. If anything, I'm still more frustrated at the defeat at the weekend rather than tonight. How the fuck have we gone from a team not giving up at Old Trafford and fighting back against Spurs. To back to the bang average bottlers. I'm currently at the level I just want the game on Saturday to be over and done with it. I gave up with any optimism after seeing us cave in to their C team in the cup last season. We're clearly frightened of them.

We badly need a goalkeeper in the summer because I am sick to death of seeing the same mistakes over and over again. He is meant to be England's Number One for fuck sake. Get rid in the summer that 3rd goal, as well as City play it. So much could have been done. Pray to God, Allan and Calvert-Lewin are back.

Don't know what Carlo see in giving Sigurdsson captain let alone put him in the starting eleven. I don't think I have ever hated an Everton player more in mt life than him. Fabian Delph a close second. Attitude stinks, the irony of him pointing fingers of where to go when the cunt himself makes no attempt and calling him average is a compliment. Robbing us blind the pair of them.

Would not surprise me if we announce Digne's new deal before the Derby to appease the fans before a hell hole. Then after another gutless performance at the shithole. Monday morning Brands contract plus a stadium update. Before we move into any stadium. Let's sort the mess we still have remaining at the club rather than become a West Ham.

The old Coleman or Keane rally calls after the game, "We learn from this defeat and be better for the next one" waiting for it.

How about actually relishing the big games and the opportunity of climbing further up the table. Rather than shitting shorts before we even entered the stadium.

Nothing but the best rather than "entering a gunfight with a knife" attitude.

Unfortunately, their second was magic. The run from Mahrez took Digne out of the picture and the finish was spectacular.

That's when the plaudits for Carlo stop. I agreed with the subs entering the field, but why does he still persist with taking Davies off and dropping Sigurdsson back into midfield? Their 3rd went straight through where Davies would have been and where Sigurdsson was ambling about in no-man's land.

If he'd have swapped Sigurdsson for James, and put King up front with Richarlison on the left, I reckon we would have seen a completely different last 25 minutes. As it was, we petered into nothing with a midfield that would struggle to tackle a kids team.

Ancelotti will predictably keep to his favourites for the derby and we'll look shite again, lacking pace, creativity and desire.

Stop taking off Tom and whatever outlets of pace we have. Seriously not looking forward to the weekend.

Now onto Everton: Davies showed for the ball, tackled, covered loads of ground. Coleman, tried his best to get the team going forward, Sigurdsson covered a huge amount of ground tonight, and then was put in a position in which he is largely ineffective. The result didn't surprise me, slightly disappointed, but wasn't expecting much.

Now, what really pissed me off (sorry to swear, folks) was the lack of pressing and chasing. When we did it, they got off their game plan, made mistakes and couldn't knock the ball around well enough. But we did it in spurts! You may keep your shape when not pressing so much, but then I watched the shape get pushed further and further back, and then condensed, thus proving ineffectual and open to speed and skill.

There was not enough energetic pressing, or energy over the 90 minutes. The crowning turd in the pipe for me (sorry about the language again good chaps and chapesses) was the subs lack of closing down, King. I was happy to see him come here. However, he strolled around too much, when manic closing down and harrying might have been much more beneficial. Is he wanting a contract at Everton? Way to relaxed and laid back.

James, brilliantly skilful, but is he under the impression though that he can be carried and doesn't have to close down either? I watched him play a lovely ball forward, then, as the players ran forward, he strolled maybe 20 yards behind the play; and he is an attacking midfielder.

Too many lack heart, desire and a pair of balls at this level. They look like absolute tigers one or two games, then seem to then play like timid kittens. Too many going through the motions, and not enough of them with their heart and soul in the club.

I think we'll do okay this season, but, we should be doing better than okay with more effort and a bit of grit.

Watching Richarlison looking like he was swapping hair tips with Man City players and smiling for the first time all night from what I could tell, Delph laughing his head off after the team who pays his massive wages has just gotten beaten by his old team, and the number of nonchalant, not-so-disappointed faces walking off the pitch, really was not great. Now, what would they be like if there was a crowd there.

Well, still hoping; roll on the derby!

But effort and commitment are the minimum requirements and we've failed for far too long in those departments.

I stand by my assessment of the first 35 minutes. We parked the bus. Yes, it took a deflection to open the scoring, but the law of averages says that if you have enough shots, corners and possession in the last third, then eventually something goes your way. And it did.

We were restricted to needing a moment of incredibly sublime quality. Something like Richarlison beating 4 from the halfway line. Because, if you don't get numbers in the opposition's half, then you don't score. Think about that for a second – we're playing the most talented team in the country and it's us that needs to provide an exceptional moment. Doesn't make sense, does it.

The goal roused us a bit. Doucoure drove forward with the ball. Richarlison dropped deeper, ran at City and attacked a cross from deep. Our full back gambled on getting up the pitch. We took possession and attempted to create rather than just one-touch pushing the ball forward. None of these things took exceptional ability – it was just a bit braver than what had gone before.

In the second half I thought we gave it a bit more of a go. But Davies going off left us more open and we went down to some moments of quality. I still don't understand why, when we go more attacking, we keep sacrificing our midfield terrier. That's when you need him more than ever.

All very disappointing, and I'm not feeling good about this derby. Liverpool are as fragile defensively as they have been in 40 years. In attack, they're still strong. What are the chances that we grow a pair and target their weakness rather than simply trying to avoid their strength?

We may have been unfortunate in losing Mina so early on and, while Tom Davies may have been subbed as he had run himself into the ground, I thought that either Digne or Sigurdsson would have come off rather than Iwobi.

Everton's best, I wouldn't want to say MotM, would be between Keane, Godfrey and Coleman. Will we win the FA Cup and/or qualify for European competition...?? Errr... not this year.

You could easily transform this into a 500+ post thread. All you have to do is post a few fair and reasonable criticisms and they will be out in their numbers posting time and again.

Keep posting after every game. You clearly understand the difference between being right and being negative. Don't let these positive people grind you down with their negativity.

And don't accept this "can't win, don't try" argument either. That's just Mr Blue Sky. He`s creeping over, now his hand is on your shoulder.

Never mind... You'll remember him this way.

We could have then rested our top players last night and had them fresher for the derby.

If it makes you feel better by suggesting that we may have even won, if, if, if, if, and more ifs... fine, but over 90 minutes, it wouldn't have mattered.

I am as Blue an Evertonian as you could ever meet and I wanted to win so badly. I even had the temerity prior to the game to suggest that we might win with the previously mentioned "ifs".

Some felt that Davies should never have been subbed. I actually agree but it really would not have made one iota of a difference. In fact, if we took off any one player and put three on in his place, we still would not have won. Yes, City are that good.

I don't usually bring up age and length of time supporting, because it can be boring to readers and even irrelevant: but I can honestly say that, since my first season watching Everton in the late 1940s Manchester City are the best team I have ever seen in the top level of English football. A personal thought and I am sure many will not agree. Their football is a treat to watch, even against Everton. However, I also think that loads of money, wisely spent, is a major factor.

I particularly liked watching Godfrey stifle all attacks and crosses from his side and this changed when he went to centre-back. The kid is a brilliant defender.

Yet to see King do anything positive. More of the same against Liverpool with James in for Sigurdsson.

Silva for instance, his speed of movement, ability on the half-turn, his ball control in possession, body shape. Everything about him is miles ahead of anyone we have.

Then there is Sterling, Mahrez, Cancelo (what a player), Jesus. Them 4 alone must be quicker than our whole side and far more skillful.

When Brands is buying to compete with City, I'll be full of optimism but, until that day, we have to hope against sides like that and hope we don't get embarrassed.

Football is set up in such a way that, even if we do end up pushing the elite clubs, it'll take some really aggressive stubbornness from our hierarchy to stop the big guns taking anyone that is a threat from our squad.

Arsenal will be lucky to win a title again, nevermind us, and Financial Fair Play keeps us in line forever anyway.

If Everton was a restaurant, Carlo has been tasked with competing with Michelin star establishments with a larder full of dog shit. He is getting rid of liabilities like Schneiderlin that piss in the soup and spit in the tea but there is much still to do. He must be looking at his ingredients and thinking "What the fuck? How am I to compete with Pep's magical confectionery or Jurgen's manic ‘Did somebody say just bleat'?". While they have highly motivated skilled and driven staff, we have Gylfi, who can do wonders with foie gras but is unsuited to the chip butties required by previous managers.

I have said a few times that the scale of mismanagement is such that it will take years to make the changes needed to break into the top bracket. Results like City are disappointing while Fulham and the rest are painful. I hope we can be brave on Saturday and impose our game on them, but expect to defend deep and counter.

I'm not ready for the pitchforks just yet and recommend a reality check to some.

It really would just about make up for the last three defeats. Although points-wise, it would be same as three draws and a loss, it would go a long way in shutting the biased commentators up also.

I really, really want to believe that we're going to win the darby, have a nagging feeling the officials will finally get to strut their stuff though, and all the world can rejoice!!

I can definitely see that we are improving, just seems a bit two steps forwards, three back imho. COUBBB. 1-2 🙏💜

We missed Allan and Calvert-Lewin and it's so much more important to us and we need our best eleven to try and get closer.

All will be forgotten when we beat the Dark Side on Saturday.

It just sucks that that was a rescheduled match from a time when Everton were in decent form and City were yet to really hit their straps and were obviously missing some players.

In the past few days ToffeeWeb has shown exactly why this club will be mid table forever more. Too many people happy to just exist and like a bunch of excited schoolchildren because the great Carlo Ancelotti has graced us with his almighty presence. Well 15 points from 13 home games this season doesn't sound all that great to me.

I repeatedly watched Ancellotti, telling his team to push up just a little, but every time they did, Jesus, just came off Keane, pulled him into areas he doesn’t want to go into, and then danced round him like he wasn’t even there.

Not Michael’s fault, good players always play on an opponents weaknesses, just like some people will say anything, once they’ve decided they don’t like someone. Singing that old Bob Dylan classic Ian, “One more cup of coffee - before I go - to the valley below”

Every time we get any sort of result against the top sides we act like a lower league team that's caused a cup shock and not like a club that wants to be in with the top sides.

✊✊

I remember the splitting pass that Davies put in for Lukaku to score... City were a good side then.

Now? A few years on, where are we? All those players are gone (one to City), we play side ways or backwards more often than forwards and we lose consistently to the bottom half of the table.

What next for Everton?

Any new signings will have to be in the 24 years old range as we badly need more athleticism in the squad, those new signings will be vital to any real overall improvement in entertainment and the tactics we are able to employ in our home games, which at present obviously aren't good enough. We need to clear out a few more of our 30 year olds.

There's no way Carlo will be leaving, but another season like this one at home in the league and the pressure will build. We can't afford to remain the way we are that's for sure. Spurs are in a similar position to us only it looks Jose's time there is done.

We are an average team. With a first choice 11 he's got us competitive against most teams when we are on it. Anything near top 6 is success for this season. We aren't better than that after one year.

He's had one transfer window to bring order to an accumulation of shit from Martinez, Koeman, Silva, Alladyce and any other manager I might have missed in the proceeding 5-year shit show.

The club has some money, but has been dealing with shifting unwanted players on big wages before we can push forward.

I am pleased we've got him. Give him another two summers and I think we will have moved a hell of a lot more forward than any other managerial alternative.

Everton is mostly a team of players who are not prepared to put the work in and take every opportunity to slack off. The problem is, if you have enough players like that, they affect the whole team and, against a team who continually works hard, even playing at their best, a deficit will occur in performance.

It was very noticeable the effort that City players off the ball would make to get into a ball receiving position and tracking back. Everton players stand about watching the play. I noticed Sigurdsson give up on tracking players, just looking on, on a number of occasions.

Pickford got a full hand on the ball for the third City goal and therefore should have saved it. Olsen would have saved it.

Ancelotti wants to stay at the club for the next 10 years, although in order to do that, we have to win something and be in Europe, year-in & year-out. Over the last few years, we've repeatedly seen posters on TW, saying the last three or four managers we've had (I don't include Allardyce) all needed time and a few transfer windows to build their own team, and get rid of the deadwood they inherited. No different with Ancelotti.

I said when he was appointed, it's the first time he's gone to a club that requires major rebuilding. Everywhere he's been has been full of top-quality international players, all it needed was a tweak here and there. It's not a little tweak with us, it's a full major overhaul!

Since the turn of the year, results haven't been great, although looking back, away wins at Wolves and Leeds, battling draws at Man Utd and at home to Leicester are not to be sniffed at. It's these home losses against West Ham, Newcastle and Fulham that's getting everyone's knickers in a twist, and rightly so. They are teams we should be beating if we want to get to the top, but we can't just keep on sacking manager after manager because the whole process keeps repeating itself:

Sack manager and coaching staff. New manager comes in with new coaching staff. New manager needs to get rid of deadwood. New manager needs few transfer windows to build his own team. New manager goes through a bad period so everyone wants him out... Wash, rinse and repeat.

I firmly believe Ancelotti is the man to take this club back to the top. It's what he wants to do but he needs time. He wants to emulate what Man City have achieved over the last few years and leave his own legacy at the club. But believe me, should he go and we bring in the wonderful Chris Wilder, Sean Dyche or Steve Cooper, then it will be mid-table mediocrity for ever!

He is garbage! Yes, he runs around a lot, studiously avoiding achieving anything worthwhile. He doesn't track any runners, he finds space between opposition players but doesn't get tight to any of them. . . and tackling must be against his religion.

"He finds channels" someone said on a previous thread. I think the only channel he has ever seen is the English Channel on TV.

Admittedly we were beaten by a much stronger team but it's made even more difficult when we are carrying passengers. The boss must see something in him because not only does he pick him, he makes him captain! Obviously Sigurdsson must win the daily arm-waving competition on a regular basis.

I still have hope Ancelotti is the right man for the job of transforming our fortunes. But we need to add some dynamism and creativity to our midfield. Sigurdsson is not that man. He was even worse when he dropped back to cover for Davies. Hard to do when you have been anonymous most of the game – but he managed it easily.

Man City will walk the league this year and I think they'll spend big in the summer too. Others like Arsenal and Spurs will push to play catch up too.

One problem I think all English clubs will have is a smaller pool of players to choose from with a combination of the COVID issues and the changes to immigration laws post Brexit making it tougher for some players from the EU to come over. Under the proposed changes, somebody like Doucoure will struggle to get a work permit because of his lack of international appearances.

The home results, negative style of football, tactics, substitutions are unacceptable. But I'm made out to be the bogeyman for saying so.

Look at the performances at home to West Ham, Newcastle and Fulham. They were desperate. I don't recall worse.

I will never never never accept that we sit back and defend and attack on the break at home. Never. It's Stone Age football. It's cowardly to make out that we can't compete with our opponents... (Fulham? Really?)

I think we had kept an excellent defensive display last night. Shape is well maintained before James was introduced. And we didn't lost any goal due to counter-attack by a team with so much pace.

Pickford looked comfortable dealing with a couple of high balls that he managed to punch away far away. He made a few good saves too.

The first goal was an unlucky deflection. The second goal was a worldy that hit the inner post which no keeper can save. The third goal was a powerful shot in the centre just inside the box. I would think a lot of keepers wouldn't even be quick enough to get down and get a touch on the ball. So overall, I think it's a solid display. So I feel more positive by the display in this game than last.

Sigurdsson had intercepted the ball a few times and put pressure on the ball and tracking back. I think he contributed a lot even though without scoring or some spectacular tackling.

I think James's fitness needs to pick up. The defensive shape cannot be maintained while he plays. And he's a touch too slow when receiving the ball. He always got crowded out and lost possession.

Let's win the next game. It would be massive.

Let’a sack Ancelotti, appoint Dyche, Howe, Wilder or Cooper. Then we can sit back, breathe out and enjoy the spectacle of the rest of football laughing its ass off at us.

Appointing a manager who has won multiple trophies is evidently causing mental stress and unease to some of our fans. Far better to settle the nerves with a manager who has won nothing with the added bonus of having got their teams relegated.

- we have a few gutsy players

- we have a few mobile, dynamic players

- we have a few very talented players who are good on the ball

But we don't have anyone except maybe Godfrey, Digne and Richarlison last night who fit in all 3 categories. City are very amply stocked with such players - hence we struggled to get a foothold in the game.

You can criticise the tactics and some individual performances but ultimately it comes down to a gulf in quality. Sigurdsson and others will all have better days, and we're still on course to finish 6th to 9th. With another summer of recruitment we should be more competitive in going for 4th to 7th.

Mansour purchased Man City in 2008, some 12½ years ago, they have been on a journey churning their squad ever since Shay Given, Pantillimon, Adam Johnson, there are getting on for circa 100 players signed for big fees then moved on as deemed not good enough.

My point being is we have a long road to travel before we are on a level playing field. Even Pep's City were shite in his first season, bearing in mind they had won the league the season before.

We are all frustrated and draw parallels to them but reality needs to be applied here. The league generally is far more competitive now; we need stability to make progress. Knee-jerk reaction of change will not get us to the top any quicker.

Historically, Liverpool have out-spent us and it took them 30 years to win the league... think of the quality players they have had over the last 30 years and then ask yourself how the fuck did it take them 30 years???

Some people are just polarising the views of others. I neither love nor hate Carlo Ancelotti – he is our manager and I personally think the best one we could have for the job in hand.

I'm not happy with some results and performances this season and I include last night's. In fact, I am feeling particularly morose this morning because I realised that I actually accepted last night as inevitable. I haven't felt any game was beyond us in recent times, no matter the opposition, so my acceptance of it hurts.

Ian (Bennett) is also right that we are an average team. I don't feel any longer that even our first eleven is top six and changes are needed. That performance last night was much improved on the Fulham game and was probably the best we could've played. Even then, we never looked like we had an attacking plan nor did we look like we could come back again.

I thought 3 or 4 signings and we'd be up there. It's going to take more than that. If we take off our blue-tinted specs and look honestly at our players, there are actually very few that are as good as we think they are... but they're all we've got!

I'd love to think Richarlison is the best striker in the Premier League but he's probably not even top 10. The only players I have genuine positive belief in are Godfrey, Calvert-Lewin and Allan, with a dwindling admiration for James. Michael Keane is winning me over slowly but the rest are not top table players.

Personally, I still feel that Carlo is the man to change us into serious challengers but, Ian (Edwards not Bennett), I actually do see the comparison with Allardyce that you're making. Allardyce set out his team using what he had available and played to their (limited) strengths. Carlo is doing exactly the same – using what tools he's got to get a result.

The difference is I don't think Allardyce would've changed his style and was never going to be long-term. And he's a cunt. I think Carlo has been given time to change us around and will do so.

You are absolutely spot on, you will always get posters who think anything less than being in the top 4 and winning trophies is unacceptable for Everton. Well, they couldn't have been watching the same Everton I have been watching for the last 65 years; unless my memory is playing tricks, only 2 managers have won the league in that time and, apart from Joe Royle's team winning the Cup, those 2 managers have been responsible for all the trophies this club has won in my 65 years of watching.

So to expect Ancelotti to come in and put everything right in 1 year, they obviously have little or no concept of what this job entails. He has taken over a club that, for the last 5 years, has been around mid-table or lower, we have had 4 managers all with a different style of play and all allowed to spend money.

So now he is with a lot lower budget having to get players in that will improve the club, while still having to select players bought by different regimes. I would say to those critics "Come back in 2 years, if we are still between 7th and 10th and no trophy won, then yes, that will be the time to talk about sacking Ancelotti."

As for last night's game, Man City are in a different league to the rest of the Premier League this season; let's not forget, they beat last season's Champions a couple of weeks back 1- 4 and missed a penalty in the process.

I think they are a real class act and a joy to watch, the first touch of all their players is brilliant, but even more impressive is when they do lose the ball their intensity to win it back, they must be the hardest of teams to play against.

I doubt many of us expected anything other than a loss but, unlike the Fulham and Newcastle games in particular you couldn't accuse the players of not putting a shift in. For those wanting us to go toe-to-toe with them would probably have led to an even bigger scoreline; our neighbours tried that and got mullered.

I guess your post is in reply to mine. So you're pretty much saying what I said (with a few little add ons) except for you saying “I don't recall worse”. Well believe me, I've seen far worse, home, away and in Europe.

But, as I say, let's get the wonderful Chris Wilder, Sean Dyche or Steve Cooper in, oh and Eddie Howe, and quietly slip away. God forbid, we could even try and get Allardyce back once he's taken West Brom down and watch his wonderful defend, defend, defend tactics!

There are Managers out there who would do a better job with the players. Rodgers for one and also Benitez.

The football is ugly but he can get away with it when he is winning. When he is losing, he can only survive for so long.

Next three homes are Southampton, Palace and Burnley. If he doesn't change his tactics, those games will be a disaster.

You always comment on the negatives... always. What about West Brom 5-2? West Ham (cup) 4-1? Brighton 4-2? Liverpool, with a full squad and coming from behind twice, 2-2? Chelsea 1-0? Arsenal 2-1? Leicester 1-1? and Spurs 5-4?

Like I've said, you are always, always negative.

I was speaking to his son-in-law last Thursday, and he did say you never can tell in football, in other words, Ancelotti needs to succeed or the sack is inevitable, but he wants to succeed with us. He's got to be given time, and I don't mean 10 years, I mean at least 2 or 3 years to get the squad he wants.

We're an impatient lot, us blues, and we wanted success the day he was appointed, but for god's sake, give him the time, because I'm getting really fed up of the “Wash, rinse and repeat” scenarios.

Reckon we'd top that.

I could comment on some of those games: The derby match we benefitted from strange officiating (for once). The Chelsea and Arsenal games were bus parking for the last 30 mins and we hung on desperately. I think both teams were below us in the league.

Leicester was utterly terrible. We gave them far too much respect and even Rodgers was surprised by it in his post-match interview. It was the worst of Ancelotti. It's embarrassing that you're trying to make out that a home draw with Leicester is something to celebrate. Instead of letting them worry about Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, we decided to be shit scared of Maddison and Barnes.

If that was giving them a game it is scary to think how bad teams under us are and shows the Premisr League in its true light.

To think they could just take Calvert-Lewin in the summer if they wanted too. Everton are just a number – like a Labourer is to an agency.

When we beat Chelsea they were on a 17-game unbeaten run and swapping places with Spurs for first and second place.

Arsenal have been below us in the league all season.

We beat Leicester and the superior Rogers 2-0 in their own backyard when they couldn't lay a glove on us. Only one of two defeats they have suffered since early December in 18 games.

Nobody is excusing the bad losses to the likes of Newcastle and Fulham.

Only one poster in particular consistently tries to re-write history and denigrate, or completely ignore, the merited victories.

Got it!

Do you not take any pleasure in any victory by Everton, against any opposition, no matter how it comes?

Oh! And I referenced the dominant win at Leicester as this very morning you claimed Rogers would be doing better than Carlo. We've taken four points off them. Go figure.

We were holding and frustrating City and took something special to take the lead again.

If we had a poll on here, most would say Calvert-Lewin has been our player of the season, followed by Godfrey and Doucouré.

One was missing last night, Godgrey was played out of position until Mina went off, Doucouré without Allan has had to cover most of the pitch, with only Tom Davies in the last few games, helping out with the work load.

Overall I thought with the changes we did the best we could, with the players we had available.

Some of his decisions, like Sigurdsson as a false 9, have been laughable and his default when we're losing is to withdraw Tom Davies when he has been playing really well this last month or so.

Changing the defence from game to game isn't helping them settle, as well as rotating the keepers; we concede a lot of goals. It's a good job our away form is great cos it's nearly 3 months since we won a Premier League game at Goodison Park.

Most wins this season (not all) have left me feeling at the end of the game "Thank God for the final whistle as that last half-an -hour was like the Alamo".

Those home losses?

WHU 3-0
Villa 1-0
Fulham 2-1
Everton 2-0
Leeds 3-1

Oh! And Arsenal 2-0 in the League Cup

You might recognize some of the teams in that list.

REAL facts, eh?

Terribly inconvenient.

Forza, Brendan!

Why was Godfrey played out of position? Digne could have played left-back. Richarlison could have played on the left. King could have played up front.

King is a forward. I'm old enough to remember when we played two recognised strikers.

You will always be negative because you don't like Carlo. There are loads of people who don't like our tactics in some games, Fulham a case in point. Even I didn't like the tactics or subs... but we move on.

Can you really see Ancelotti staying 10 years?

All I want is a well-run football club, with an identity on and off the pitch, that isn't afraid to stand up for itself and be counted. But it seems like never-never land.

Can anyone explain what the fuck that means please.

However, that does not mean that Everton, my team for ever and ever, are merely also-rans. Obviously it is really quite a challenge to maintain patience and have high expectations when we see such an abject performance against Fulham and a few other lesser teams. This is understandable, particularly for younger fans.

Remember, there are many supporters who have had it much harder then Evertonians. The yo-yo teams like Norwich, Palace and such. Then there are Sunderland, Bolton and Bury who just vanished from serious football. Okay, we are not them... but we have spent all but four seasons since 1878 at the highest level. No team can top that!

The past has been relatively good to us. The present not as pleasant as we would like. But we always have to be optimistic about the future... or just give up watching Everton. Personally, I could never do that. It may be like a disease but, for me, one I have been blessed with!

The balance keeps shifting as Ancelotti keeps changing his formation. We win a few then get a forced change and it falls apart for a month before he figures out a new masterplan. I can't remember any time we start slow then our manager changes something mid-game for us to click. If it starts badly, that's the way it ends.

Looking at the players, lwobi is a waste of a shirt. £30M? I'd sell him along with Holgate and use the money for Aarons and Bailey. We need players that can skip past the man.

Looking at City, l go through their team and individually only a few excite me. Their biggest threat is that all of the forward players can beat a man and they collectively hunt the ball back in packs.

And where has James gone? The games are beginning to pass him by. It's like playing with 10 without the ball. I thought he and Coleman looked good down the right but we don't ever see it. We also have quite a good player in Bernard on the left that works well with Digne.

Play on the front foot Carlo!! Give the players the confidence to go out and perform.

The derby in a few days and, if Allan and Calvert-Lewin are fit again, we will have the same opportunity to start with the shape and 11 we had at the start of the season (but with Godfrey in for Mina).

Fat chance... looks like we are hopeful of a European place instead of trusting the squad and setting them out to win.

222 posts to go

At times it feels like the team's identity is one of true grit, a team that is willing to fight tooth and nail against more talented opponents until the final whistle (eg, Man Utd game). Then, in other games, it appears this team has no grit whatsoever, and loses focus or interest against “inferior” opponents (eg, Newcastle and Fulham). Wasted opportunities like those are what really hurts the heart of a fan when looking back on what could've been.

A legendary coach of American football once said “You are what your record says you are”. I think that's true, but we still have more games to play, and more opportunities for this team to grow and improve. I am not a sunshine pumper (what we call blindly optimistic fans over here), but I remain hopeful that we can get our key players healthy, learn to consistently play with the right psychological disposition, and perhaps maybe even make a run to land in the top 4. Until then, I look forward to watching Everton and reading y'all's comments so I can learn more about the game.

We need a dominant centre half to play with Godfrey, a fullback, two wide players and another striker, if we want to become a really competitive squad, which means we have still quite a bit to go imo.

Ancellotti's never managed a mid-table club and made it great, but not many have... and even the ones that did do it have never done it overnight. So, if Everton are to become great again, then anyone who thinks it's going to happen quickly is definitely not going to see any light.

Onto Anfield next, let's unite even if it's just for one game, and also pray everyone is fit, and Ancellotti decides to be brave!

King, and Richarlison, can play either side of the three midfielders, which will hopefully be Allan, Davies and Doucouré, but suddenly the back four doesn't look strong enough, so I'll leave it to the defensive minded Carlo, to hopefully get this right!

From here, he would be central and would have the pitch in front of him to take the ball off the defenders and dictate play and long-range passing to three pacey forwards, Richarlison, King and Calvert-Lewin.

With a defensive dog alongside him to cover the back four, you could then have Doucouré as your up-and-down midfielder to help gel the team.

There are and can be no excuse for the recent disgraceful results against West Ham, Newcastle and Fulham. From poor tactics to poor selection to poor players, take any one or two or three reasons, we were awful.

However, in my opinion, to expect us to try and play open attacking football against Man City with the run that they are presently on is delusional. Look at their results since Christmas when they've out-fought, out-thought nearly every team including our neighbours.

Slag Ancelotti or the players off when they deserve it but the continual non-stop, regardless of the result, out-pouring of condemnation is becoming boring and totally ridiculous.

If you hate Ancelotti so much, fair enough... but a little slack now and again when or if deserved might stop this personality clash.

Why do we have players who look delighted to come off with a knock?
Why do we have players who trot around midfield like lost ponies?
What is it about Everton's structure and culture that tolerates this?

He may have been promising in his early years but he isn't in the same class as the likes of Foden, Maddison, Grealish, Mount or even Barkley. I see him as another Darracott – runs around a lot but with very little result.

As I have posted on another thread, the rest of the team make him look like he is performing. I cringe when he gets the ball outside his own area as, 9 times out of 10, he either loses possession or gives it away or a desperate pass back into the danger area.

I have had enough of all these "This team is far superior, that team is fighting for its existence in the Premier League, etc" comments. This club is regressing rapidly year after year!!!

After this coming round, we could be 10th or 11th!! If that's good enough for you, then I have nothing to say to you!!!

Oh and forget the FA Cup because we'll be beaten by Man City again!!! I just don't get Ancelotti's ultra-defensive anti-football tactics at all! Can anyone else see any progress compared to when we had Silva or Keoman in charge!!!??? I can't.

“The game was there for taking.”

Doesn't need a response, does it?

At least Davies has never hid and tries the forward pass, unlike gobshites like Schneiderlin, Gomes and Sgurdsson who are made for life with their once-a-month cameos. Disgusting the way this club is used... also on the coaching and the board. No wonder ex-players adore us.

No one says Tom is like Grealish they don’t even play the same role. He’s not great but at the minute doing his best and is performing better than others. So that is a good reflection on him and a poor reflection on his multi million pound team mates.

Having a go at Man City is a v high risk strategy. As it happens they can look shaky if you have a go at them, but if you lose the ball having committed men forward then you're in big trouble.

So with a patched up team we went defensive, had none of the ball but actually restricted City to v few chances. Unlucky deflection for the first goal and a good, effective counter for our equaliser. With a bit of luck we'd have seen the game out but got done but a brilliant goal. The third goal was a series of errors but arose because Davies had been removed from the engine room. However, the game was probably already lost by that stage.

Personally I don't blame Ancelloti for being defensive. After all he has vastly inferior players to work with.

The problem I have is why we have vastly inferior players. The issue is circa 10 years of mismanagement rather than Ancelotti's tactics etc (which are by no means perfect as various crap results will attest).

Against the RS I expect us to be much more competitive. I also expect us to be more competitive against City in the cup too, especially if we have our better players available.

Dont know what game you watched Soren tbh.

Big Sam when he took over as Manager questioned the mentality of the players, even suggesting the need to appoint a Sport Phycologist. I for one attacked Big Sams analysis at the time, but now I think he was right. Ancelotti has stated it takes more than quality , it takes spirit. Quality wise Everton where a match for Man City. Spirit wise they where a poor imitation. But good Spirit doesn't take place on match day, it is built up in preparation and training over weeks and months in the training camp with clear uncompromising objectives.

Everton are unusual in that this lack of spirit is the result that the players believing they belong to a Big Club, with Superior facilities, and they are quality players. Many don't believe they have to work and even when playing against lower table sides the game is won before it starts and all they have to do is turn up.

Unfortunately to get a Champions League place a team has to beat lower placed sides consistently ( Ref Jay ( BRA) article, and not have a mid table pattern of two results and a loss. A Professional footballer should know this if they want to play in the Champions League or win a Competition medal. Most of the Players at Everton don't appear to know this or are prepared to make the necessary effort when it counts. Whats more from Moyes to Ancelotti Managers have failed to get this across. In the case of some Managers when pressure has mounted the team has hastened their departure with helping hand performances.

So what is the source of this drag on progress. If a team is to be successful the whole Club from Top to Bottom have to buy in to working for the successful outcome. There are still people at Everton that think all you have to do is buy at high cost individuals, keep Big Club stars of yesteryear, build a new Stadium, have a attitude that Everton are a big Club and , have a Billionaire owner.

Ancelotti knows what is required, but he must often will feel he is banging his head off a brick wall.

He then continued to add, we mixed it up a bit to confuse a watching Klopp, who was multi tasking watching the game on prime, while reading up in the live forum for any inside information.

Dunc said not to worry, Godfrey will be back at centre half for the Derby, Calvert-Lewin and Allan will also start and promises you that when we get the winner, he will personally run on the pitch, run up to Allison and tickle him under his chin, before exiting the pitch by Klopp, finishing off with a cartwheel.

You heard it here first.

Shame on you for having a defeatist attitude, and setting the bar too low!

I’m going to send an email to Farhad, Carlo and Marcel, as follows-

Dear Carlo and co. I’m not prepared to accept the zombie football and the awful results at home one day more. Please get it sorted immediately, or I’ll scream and scream until I’m sick.

I’m sure that will make them buck their ideas up!

Will you do the same please to ensure those running the club understand we have high standards?

All of us should do this. We can’t have them thinking we accept this stuff, unless we come across as happy clappers and apologists.

I’m pretty sure he wasn’t saying anything of the sort

Creatively, two assists to date puts him way down the charts. I was listening to some pundits, ex players recently and they said that a top midfielder can take the game by the scruff of the neck and control it, something which I totally cocncur with. Siggy is close to anonymous. Other than sending your post directly to Ancelotti, I don't know how this will be resolved.

I am going to set up a special Finch Farm re-education camp for your guys. You will watch a loop of videos including the Atlanta game, Unsie's game at Soton, the Marco Silva Ars and RS games, all of HK season 3, Moyes greatest negative press conferences, Bill K's greatest lies, and it should give you some perspective about where we are coming from and where we are headed

What was your take on the third goal from a keepers perspective mate

Kieran. 310

Just the two of them?

"A lot of you on here are forever informing ing us the current players are.. . . .

Shite
Slow
Bottle less
No ambition
Greedy
Etc

You then (same people) post Ancelotti is finished because he hasnt got us challenging for top 4.

Discuss

Ric can't play as a lone striker as effectively as Dom but is he better than King in that role?

I haven't seen enough of King to assess which is a mystery in itself. I would think his pace and power would at least be better as striker (or second striker) than Siggy.

We all know Siggy can be effective as a forward but he's not a midfielder, never mind a defensive one. Why do successive manager's try and fail playing him deep?

I think Godfrey defended very well against Mahrez, he shows Digne to be pretty poor defending one on one's. As for Keane as soon as some one runs at him any change of direction and he's done.

I think this highlights how poor against better players our defence is. Some comment on Keane having a good season, but in truth he's a very average defender.

One of our better defenders is Ric and when he's played as striker we really miss his defensive qualities.

Finally the goal keeping debate. I'm not blaming the loss on Pickford but he should have done better with the last goal.

However my main issues with him vs Olsen are:

1 decision making. Why look for and then play a quick ball when we have no players in space or look like they are far enough upfield to take advantage of a quick counter attack?

2 distribution. On at least 5 occasions Pickford miss-kicked the ball out of play or straight to a City player. This is far more often than Olsen when under no real pressure.

The evidence doesn't agree with Pickford being an accurate or better distributor of the ball than Olsen.

I would like Olsen to be given more game time as I believe he is the better keeper.

Rob, have you had anymore chats with Carlos’s son in law? If so, what are the plans for the derby? Is it true James wants to return to Spain with his bird?

I was in Bucharest during that match (not attending, just in the city by happenstance). The worst part was the reaction of my Romanian friends. They were bewildered and seemed embarrased for me. They asked questions like "so you really watch this team every week?" with pity in their eyes. It was truly humbling.

Colin,

The dreaded Hibbert "close up shop" substitution. . . brings back horrible memories

"we have been deteriorating since Moyes left" and we weren't exactly flying high when he left. That year we finished 6th (one place above where we are now) and lost 0-3 to Wigan in the FA cup after being knocked out of the league cup in round 3 by lower division Leeds. In truth we've been in decline since 1987, Colin's first year finish of fourth in 1988 has only been matched once in 33 years since. Royle's cup win brilliant as it was came alongside a tough relegation battle. And that is the extent of the "achievements" of the 30 years before Carlo came along

But I like Thomas' observation at 315. We have a group of supporters who think the players are shit, yet expect the manager to get them into the Champions League.

Managers can only do so much. You get consistent results through having the best players. That's why Man Utd are starting to do well again despite having a mediocre manager. We, on the other hand, have a very good manager but mediocre players. Hence we're 7th.

I have five red mates (old school mates, class of ‘72, Ellergreen in Norris Green), and do a Zoom session with them every Monday. The last few weeks has been painful, listening to them moaning and imagining their worst case scenario of Klopp’s regime crashing to an end this season. They’ve started criticising Klopp, after winning the CL and PL.

I don’t feel sorry for managers like Klopp and Ancelotti, because they get paid millions. But at the same time, I’m conscious that sometimes their critics need to just get a grip on reality.

But the pace, not just the pace on the shot, but the speed at which the player took the shot was always going to trouble even the best of keepers.

I was a defender, not a keeper, but would say Pickford done well to even get a hand to that. I may buck the trend here but I'd say he was unlucky, no matter how central that was.

James is a different kettle of fish, has he signed a long term contract or is it for one year with the club or James having an option to sign for one more year? That’s the first part my question, the second part is: Will he play a consistent part of the team, giving that the premier league looks a bit too fast for James and maybe a bit too tough.

"unless we have a little more luck or braveness with academy players."
Remember Jarrad Brandthwaite? Anthony Gordon?

"a couple of years and transfer windows is needed. "
I think the record needs changing

So you'd prefer a presser like this:

"Truth be told, I am a blusted flush. Any mug can see that. I've just ridden my luck for 20 years and been found out. Biggest mistake I made was sending the two lads on loan. The Blackburn game showed us just how ready he is. Did you see how he kept the phenomenal Chad Evans out of the game despite the three goals they conceded. And Anthony Gordon? A diamond. I was a fool thinking he wasn't ready based on his first team performances. I've since been told by Unsie that he is actually a diamond. To make matters worse, turns out Beningame was another first team ready player according to Dave. Fool that I am, I cost us this game by sending those three out on loan.

As for the defensive tactics, nothing to do with City's quality, it was all about my own cowardice. I have been known all my life as someone afraid of a challenge back to my cushy childhood as a son of a pig farmer. Let's be honest, without even having had a full season here it's obvious I am just here for an easy life and fat paycheck. All the so-called fans who can't see me for what I am are mugs. Dunc would would win the league this very year if anyone had the sense to sack me."

Remember when we did finish 4th (-1 goal difference) and 5th, 6th etc, the PL was easier then, less competition. Leicester didn't get promoted to the PL unitil 2014 after years in the Championship (incredible winning the PL 2 years later). During those 11 years we were on the wrong end of many hammerings, but the final straw for me was the 2012 semi v Liverpool and trying to defend a 1 goal lead against them. They were there for the taking and he bottled it.

Yes WHU are doing very well, but ask any Sunderland fan what they think (my brother in law is one) they cant forgive him for signing crocks on massive wages. For the record the much maligned Sam Allardyce kept them up, by changing the way they play to suit Defoe. It was more inspirational than Moyes injury prone (not so much) bargains of Victor Anichebe and Darren Gibson.

What Everton did with Branthwaite was absolutely correct, we have a lot of good CB's and he is one for the future. Gordon has been tried and obviously found to be not good enough so again loan was the correct solution.

You irrationally believe that immediate action can magically restore us to the status that people like you demand as a right. What is that action?

As for Carlo, amen. Got a big laugh this morning when Fat Sam told Sky that if he had Carlo's budget, he'd have us in the top 4. That clown couldn't do Carlo's laundry.

Played in one position Siggi can be very effective.

Yep, keeping those two teenagers would certainly have turned the season around. No telling how badly we'd have beaten City with Gordon on our wing instead of on Preston's bench. Whew.

Now he’s rarely played at 10, and has to do his own running. When it works, he looks pretty good.

When asked to play deeper, he is less effective. I think he’s on record as saying that he’s had several discussions about this with Carlo.

"We don't need to replace our manager and some players, far better if we could just replace some of our fans."

We may have to cash in on Speedo Mick. That would raise the funds for a good number of happy clappers.

You said City were there for the taking, Soren. City! With their current record. I find that just a glib, unrealistic comment. Most of us were saying there was always a chance. Nobody at all I heard saying City were so easy they were there for the taking. Unless you mean something else by that.

Setting the bar that low? What bar is higher than City at the moment?

However the worse kind are the odd stranger you bump into, who happens to be a fellow Blue, but does not have an ounce of Everton history or knowledge, and talks utter shite to a Red shite, bringing you into the conversation and making you cringe at the same time.

One thing social distancing has brought is you no longer have to try and make your seat smaller, as the village idiot boards the bus, hearing the giggles as he chooses to sit next to you, then he starts talking, I say talking, more like shouting, in between sniffing his snot back and forth.

Anyone else suffered the same fate, or just me.

As for Carlo, amen. Got a big laugh this morning when Fat Sam told Sky that if he had Carlo's budget, he'd have us in the top 4. That clown couldn't do Carlo's laundry.

FFS I’ve nearly PMSL. That poor excuse for a manager couldn’t hold a swan vesta to Ancelotti, never mind a candle!

Of course he could, Carlo has spent 80 million compared with Sam's paltry 50 million. So for the cost of Godfrey, that Sam side could have been in the CL. The Man's a genius. Remember he has 100% record with England also.

Martin Mason, I rarely agree with you but you’ve been spot on in this thread. We need time and investment (in real, proper players) to stem 30 plus years of mismanagement and decline. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Speaking for myself, I didn't "expect" to lose to City, in fact I held out hope we might sneak a hard fought win. But neither did I "expect" to get that win. I just thought it would be very hard but I was hopeful we could do it. After the game, I thought "well the obviously better team won." I wasn't "happy" or "content" but I was just facing facts. It appears to me that is a similar viewpoint to most people on here. The contrary view (mostly) seems to be that if you resign yourself to circumstances, albeit after a game, that you're some kind of "world is ending" white flag waving pessimist. The irony is, that I see those criticizing what I would call "pragmatists" as being exactly the kind of white flag waving pessimists that they seem to abhor. They appear to have given up on the manager, again. It happens about once every 12 months. Many have given up on players again, some of whom haven't even been here a year. That mentality reminds me a lot of what we saw at Sunderland for a decade, with one owner, manager, squad of players quickly hounded out after another until the whole club fell into oblivion. No one is "happy" with where we are, but we are trying to look big picture and see that things take time.

City have got to where they are over a long period of heavy spend on players and numerous managers. Ring any bells?

They are now unquestionably the gold standard for other teams to emulate.

We are way back in that queue due to chronic under investment in the Kenwright years and poor management during and since.

Any Blue who has a magic formula for instant success please post it in the meantime we should be grateful for Ancelotti moving us forward albeit 3 steps forward and two backward.

I’d also like to know if Richarlison is as miserable off the pitch as he looks on it. Spill the beans, Rob.

Its also the part where we big up opponents to the point where they become unbeatable.

The next team to have those extremely positive chaps diving behind the settee will be The Shite. it will be a gradual build up. First they will moan about how much they have spent. Then they will talk about "the Jinx"...Then the pact with Satan, Then there will be complaints about the media. The bent officials. The slope on the pitch. Before you know it you will be able to smell the fear. The excuses will lined up before we even set off across Stanley Park. By the time we get there they will be shaking despite the fact that the shite have been . . .err Shite.

If we get a result. the Bravado will return. Carlo will be fantastico again. it will be all his own work.
If we lose, the people who have been trembling all week will have the temerity to whinge like fuck about how the players inferiority complex let down Don Carlo..

Mark my words. By the time we get to Mordor "Mr Blues sky" will already have talked what should be a win into mission impossible.

Expectation Management. TGT has an awful lot to answer for.

Someone above mentioned or apologised even (and apologies from me as I can't find it to reference the individual) about thinking Everton are a top team. We are not. We are an improved team that remains in progress and still has a lot to play for.

We are a top club and a big club, but not a top team right now.

Is it a bird?
Is it a plane?

NO.
its.. . . . .

No relevance to last night but I have to disagree with that, Bobby (@ 296). There was no sign whatsoever of Barkley wanting to leave until after the protracted Koeman treatment of public humiliation and mind games, including saying Barkley's contract was "Not a priority" and "Could wait", as the time drew nearer and other contracts were addressed. Plus displaying a po-faced reluctance to acknowledge any goals/good performances when raised in post-match interviews.

It was then rumoured (without actual proof) that Barkley was offered an unflattering contract. Somehow in the time/negotiations that passed after this, it morphed into "He wants to leave", which several on here that did not like Barkley, continually maintained, despite it never being quoted by him or his management that he wished to go. There was in fact, silence from them.

There have been numerous attempts to denigrate other posts on this thread.

I didnt hear a peep out of you then

I suspect you may have a point on James. He obviously started really strongly in those first four games but since then he’s been pretty patchy.
He definitely causes us problems defensively when he plays in a wide position. Sides seem to be physically targeting him because like both of us they suspect he doesn’t really like it.
Someone on here described him as the best Everton player since Kanchelskis which is one of the most ridiculous pieces of hyperbole ever on a forum noted for it.
Even more concerning is that against Fulham where he appeared to get himself substituted and last night his heart didn’t seem in the fight.
Undoubtedly a player with some special abilities but like you I wonder if he’s built for the rough and tumble of the PL.

It seemed to me like we were hedging our bets with Barkley. He was struggling for form under Koeman so I think the club tried to play a bit of Russian roulette making him sweat it out to earn a deal on les than stellar terms. He chose not to take the bait and took his chances elsewhere. The whole gangster/girlfriend issue may or nor have strengthened his opinion on leaving.

I swear I can flick you one and off like a light switch. I only have to post. I could post about stamp collecting and you will be on frothing... Dont worry you are not the only one there will be others. Ian Edwards has already proved that. . . But thanks for given a very clear demonstration of what fear and expectation management looks like.

Reassuring to know yo were still hanging on to my every word when I spoke about my Bushmills arriving.

In midfield Davies is improving, Doucoure has been good when not having to sit to cover full back position. Allan has got the niggles, as has James, Delph and Gomes. In fact Siggy has been the most reliable consistent and hardworking of the lot of them. Bernard should be given more opportunity and if he is fit l cant get my head around it.

Up front Richy and DCL need help. We gave away Walcott and Kean for nothing. We have also got lwobi on the books that cost £30m smakerooneys. Its no use rebuilding a squad and getting wages off the bill if we keep going out and splashing cash on players that have 6 good games a year. We have to get shut of him, Delph too. We have Branthwaite coming through and cover in midfield. Just need some pacey quality up front that can drop his shoulder and beat a man. Someone that can pass a ball from wide would be nice, so we don't have to rely on Digne. Another season wasted. I canne take much more captain

The twisted logic of some would not mind a defeat just to prove a point.

Nose. Spite. Face

Taking the draw now?

The draw is the scoundrel's last exile. You can be smug without doing so after a defeat, but at the same time you can say we should have had more. Sort of best of both worlds for a negative Nelly

Just a damn pity Richarlison did not save that goal for the 93rd min on Saturday.

Yes would love another Jagielka or sharp screamer, but the sadistic in me wants it to be the last kick of the game, going in off one of our players backsides.

The season is over. Get to 45 points then start throwing in all the young players. It would be better than watching the garbage on display at the moment.

Lets not go down that route please.
Lad goes to work and enjoys a drink.
Tens of thousands same in this city

A laugh is a laugh but its not, or shouldnt ever be, personal

I have watched a couple of the u23 games and they haven't impressed me enough to play any of them regularly in the first team.

I agree with that. Koeman did shift Barkley around a little, and move the goalposts on him, playing-wise, and all publicly. Guy was not on his best form for sure, but was given a rather poison environment in which to try and correct it. Koeman chose him as the whipping boy; he picks at least one everywhere he goes.

Was just moved to respond to the "He wants/wanted to leave" mantra from the Barkley boo boys of the time, which kinda pissed me off.

"Get to 45 points then start throwing in all the young players."

To what end? Unsie did that when Koeman was fired. Beningame played in 6 of his 8 games, most of which we lost. Kenny was playing also, Dowell, pennington, Tom and Lookman. I wouldn't blame them for the defeat but clearly "blooding youngsters" for the sake of doing so is not a winning formula as the results then show, as does the fact that none of the aforesaid went on to become top quality players. The only one hanging in there now is Tom. Same story on other occasions when we have nothing to play for and Kendall, RM, Moyes and Sam gave game time to the likes of Iain Jenkins, Ledson, Nathan Craig, Charsley, Broadhead etc. If a kid is good enough he will play. We don't magically turn iron into gold by making aged based selections just to make a point to senior pros.

All the best, John.

Ancelotti still has to cope with and rectify a lot of inheredited baggage. Expecting any more than incremental improvement is not accepting mediocrity, it's just being realistic.

Serious question, do you ever query why you seem to get right up people's noses on a regular basis? I find the tone of your posts a little sinister at times to be honest.

You seem to revel in being personal with anyone who questions or disagrees with your viewpoint. 'I can switch you on and off like a light switch' being a good example.

It's as if you have a need to control the dialogue ALL the time. Scary.

Ancelloti has had great success at big clubs at the top level, and he has made some howlers here. Same bloke.

Then again, it was declared a dead rubber after Newcastle.

What if we get to 45 points (potentially within the next 3 - 4 games) and we are still in touch with Europe?

You've cracked the code lol.

If you subtract all foreign sourced players, there should still average a good few from every top English team's structure.

The "So" implies there's a logical conclusion. I haven't said nor implied anything about capitulation. OK, at least you put a question mark at the end - so the answer is "no".

And no, I don't believe for a second that we should bench the regulars at 45 points and throw the youngsters in just to see if they're "up to it." Frankly, I think that's Looney Tunes. I think a manager like Carlo and top professional coaches can determine whether a youngster is ready without starting him in the Derby. And I certainly take the word of regular U23 watchers like Brent that we don't have any budding superstars there.

You want to declare the season over? Be my guest. Wave the white flag and ride off into the sunset. Me, I'll continue to enjoy the ups, bemoan the downs and watch this team surprise me... both ways.

All the best mate.
Up the toffees 👍

If we beat Liverpool on the weekend, we're level with them on points.

We'll be either 5 or 3 points back of 4th (most likely) with a [Villa] game in hand.

West Ham have: Spurs, City, Leeds, Man U, Arsenal, Wolves and Leicester in their next six games.

I don't see Villa continuing their form, and we'll knock 3 points out of them when we play our game in hand.

Everyone else is below us. In other words, they've had a worse season and aren't as good as Everton, if the table doesn't lie.

I see no reason to give up the dream until after the derby. I really don't.

If your eyes tell you differently, fair enough. My eyes see a wild league, with top teams consistently dropping points to lower placed clubs all season long.

I'll wait for Saturday's game to give up hope. Chelsea are human, and frankly no better than us when we're on our game.

Fulham was disgusting. City are frankly the best team in Europe presently. I'm scared of no one else in the league.

Oh, and there's still 15 games left to play.

They're going to drop like a rock I'd bet.

Hold to hope. Why not? What the hell else ya gonna do?

If you can dare to dream, and yes, I know it's just disappointment after letdown after stabbed heart, and we beat the shite, it's game on.

The Club will be on a high it's not experienced in a long, long time. And Carlo can really get the players to believe.

I honestly, hand on heart, think we can beat them and start looking up. They're just not any better than us in my opinion.

Yes, our midfield needs improving. Of that there is not question. But we have weapons, I like our defenders, and I just don't see Liverpool as unbeatable at all this season.

Anyway, as I said at the beginning of the week, we're going to know a hell of a lot about this particular squad after Saturday's game. A lot.

How many boys do you have, Jamie? Do you need to do a recount?

Surely one more defeat for either team and it's game over. I mean what would be the point of carrying on?

Managers, players and fans shouldn't be expected to suffer such humiliation of getting beat playing a game, off with their heads!

If calling them by name out loud, and going through the litany of names until I actually get it correct for the kid in question, is any guide?

I can't count.

"JC! Donovan! Rendon! Colin! Quintin! Whatever your name is! Come here!"

If I had a nickel for every time that happened, I'd be on a yacht in the Keys.

Recounts are always welcome. Unless you're Donald Trump searching for votes in Georgia, unable to graciously admit defeat. But that's another topic all together.

https://www.defensacentral.com/real_madrid/1613407319-exclusiva-james-empieza-a-cansarse-de-la-premier-y-no-descarta-fichar-por-el-atletico

I was as defensive about Ross as some are about Tom. I have been critical of Tom and wasn't convinced, but have been pleasantly proven wrong in recent weeks. Hopefully he can turn that recent good form into consistency, because like Ross, that is what will determine whether he is what we all hope he can be.

I have always seen the quality in Sigurdsson, especially when played in his obvious natural position. His brain and feet do the work there but that doesn't mean he also isn't working hard physically. Late last season, I lost faith in him but then I did with most of the squad at that time. But his recent form and performances have been vastly improved. Instrumental in most of our goals against Tottenham.

I thought we'd bought the latest over-hyped and over-priced English dud in Michael Keane. He is having a great season but I fear that as soon as we have to come out and play the defence higher up the pitch (expansive & successful teams in the main do), his previous flaws will again be exposed because they are not to do with defensive or footballing ability they are concentration, anticipation and reading the game ahead. To truly challenge, we need better in that department.

This is not a criticism of any of those players or others' view on them. It just shows how we all see it different and how those differing views come out on forums likes this, mainly constructively and in healthy debate.

I'm not going to go into individual players, just that I think it is a failed concept. I can see why clubs take the option to send players out on loan to get competitive football.

It seems to be that you are more in the clubs thoughts now if they send you on loan. If players don't get that or are not instantly promoted to first team duties, they are making up the numbers or still on the watch list. That should actually be the function of the U23s but there is a layer of competitive football missing between the academy and the first team squad.

As Lyndon has stated on his own thread though, it's ball control that can be improved by practice, often reducing the need for pace. City aren't noted for pace all over the pitch by any means, but they are noted for exemplary ball control.

Ball control can be improved in training but, to me at least, our Finch Farm remains as productive in that regard as the Norfolk Mountain Rescue Team is to Himalayan rescue.

No. I don't wonder why my posts gets up the noses of a certain group of posters. I already know the answer and I can give it to you in two words. Expectation management.
I don't go looking for this group. I don't have to. Every time I post I have a very good Idea who will respond and I have a very good idea of what they will say. Do I take it personally ? Hell no. There's only two people who post on this site who have ever met me..and one of them has stopped posting.
I said I wont refer to this group in derogatory terms again and I wont. I said I would not get into argument with them again and I wont. I've come to the conclusion that we have entirely different expectations of this club and no amount of argument is going to change that.

A newcomer to this site could very easily believe these exchanges are about Carlo Ancelotti. Theyre not really. The same arguments raged with all the previous managers.
I personally never hated a manager, but I have hated the the approach of our last few managers...Being a lover of the beautiful game and an Evertonian has been a difficult balancing act. We've played ugly football for fucking years.

Ian Edwards isn't asking for much, Read his posts. He simply wants a football team he can be proud of but look at the responses. I mean look at the attempts to isolate him "Free the Edwards one" look at the vindictiveness is those responses. He says he is logging off and you think that would be it...Na. "Thank fuck for that" will follow him out of the room. No surprises there.
The way I see it; These people have allowed their expectations to be managed for years and they in turn are very clearly trying to manager Ian's..Fair play to him for not allowing them to succeed.

I say I have never hated a manager, but I have to concede I truly despise the "glass ceiling" mentality which was to become Davey Moyes's legacy. Many will jump on the band wagon and say how much they loath him, but they are fooling themselves. They are true disciples. His influence has been totally absorbed into their Psyche.
People will talk about world class managers signing world class players, but if you ask them where they expect to finish in a very ordinary EPL they will tell you 5-6th. WTF is all that about ?...Apparently we have no right to question managers who trades entertainment for spoiling tactics either.

I sometimes wonder how two totally different mindsets can exist between two clubs from the same city. In many cases we are even from the same families...But while they consider themselves title contenders every year (no matter how crap they may be)...We dream of qualifying for the Thursday cup.. While they call on their club to "make us dream" We bleat about the world being against us...our Motto could easily be "Well what do you expect ?"..."Poor old Carlo has only inherited 300m quids worth of players and you expect him to go out and attack ?"

It pains me to say, but my team has produced some of the dullest performances I have ever witnessed under Ancelotti...However, I watched the shite play last week for he first time in years. They were fucking Garbarge They looked in total disarray.
We've already seen people fawning all over them on this thread and no doubt we will see a lot more before we play them. Not from me. I fully expect our boys to go to Anfield and win and I have given my reason

I seen how "positive" people get when they have allowed their expectations to be managed. So If you don't mind. I'll manage me own

That was more a little laugh at your campaign on Ians behalf than a dig at Ian to be honest.

I told Ian to carry on posting if you noticed.

Lighten up, have a little laugh now and again. It will do you good.
Far too serious on a football forum.

Don - are you Swiss Tony?

Given your recollection of all things Everton I would say your brain is far from feeble John.
Sharp as a tack on the games from yesteryear.