Bramley-Moore Dock stadium takes significant step forward

More positive feedback. Keep it coming.

"The report by the City Council's Planning Officer, which will be reviewed at the meeting next week, has also been published today.

"I am pleased to let you know that the Planning Officer, following a very thorough review of our application, is recommending that the Committee approves our plans."

I find it incredible that such a beautiful and positive thing for the whole city has to go through so many of these ridiculous stages?

It'll be worth it when it happens, Tony, but I know what you mean. It's a painfully slow process. It's like being dragged around the city by the bollocks.

Tony #2, I couldn't agree more. Seems a total waste of taxpayers' money and at a time when every penny is going to be needed to keep taxes as low as possible. Should be a no-brainer.

Having seen the way that prick Jenrick has handled the aftermath of the Grenville disaster... why am I still a little queasy?

What a surprise! Some stadium news after last night's debacle.

I do welcome the news though. This is our only chance to get anywhere near the top sides. If the Bramley-Moore Dock stadium falls through, then the weak flame of hope that has flickered for 25 years will be extinguished, possibly forever.

We need this stadium and we need serious investment in the team.

Moshiri will make this happen; it's why he bought the club in the first place.

I think you mean Grenfell, Jim, but point well made.

I've just opened an email from our Chief Executive saying that, if the recommendation is approved next week, the matter will be referred to the Secretary of State.

That process may not simply be a rubber-stamping exercise.

Peter, Jenrick and Usmanov. A match made in brown envelope heaven.

It seems like a long time ago Liverpool had plans approved for Stanley Park which were far more controversial in a much shorter period of time.

I can't understand the long period of time this is taking.

Wonderful news.

Tony A.

Apply for an extension on your house and see the endless rigmarole, mate. A fuckin minefield to the man in the street. Multiply by a million and we are where we are.

The stadium will happen. It has to, to fit in with Moshiri's business plan.

Still think it looks like something out of Thunderbirds has landed on a dockside warehouse!

Jay,

Looks lovely that stadium they built sitting in Stanley Park...

Darren:

"It's like being dragged around the city by the bollocks."

Sounds as if we're married to similar women!

Head Office located in the Liver Building. New Stadium on our historic and world famous waterfront. Nothing not to like about this.

As those above has said, the only question is: Why this needs to go through so many hoops and take so long? Yes, I'm an impatient one-eyed Evertonian and get the need for due diligence, as with any business project or development.

But I'm also a native of the city of Liverpool so I fail to see why this would receive so much scrutiny and seeming sucking of teeth and intakes of air given the benefits to the city and one of its biggest icons that will only get bigger because of it.

I do not ask for much, but a derby victory this week, followed by a stadium announcement just afterwards is all I ask for.

Make both happen.

Danny, isn't part of the delay due to the fact that we had to change part of our plans? Seem to remember something like that.

Thanks for the correction, Jay.

Having had the misfortune of hearing the drivel these so-called Ministers of State have trotted out (almost) daily over the last 12 months, I just wish it did feel like a formality – because it should – but it simply doesn't.

I hope to high heaven I'm wrong.

Dennis (#13),

We could play the theme immediately before kick-off to encourage our players to launch into the opposition.

Didn't they kop for a right few quid as well, for that stadium that was never built, Jay @11?

Peter @ 9;

You're right. Another step but cautious optimism I think.

The irony of more stadium news after last night, however welcome... priceless.

We did indeed, Brent. Good call-out.

Nice, John #20, I see what you're getting at there!

Craig # 6................ What a surprise! Some stadium news after last night's debacle.

This is news from Liverpool city council, passed onto the club, and as such would have been released today anyway regardless of the result yesterday.

Yay - Sigurdsson can captain us in our first game there!!!

Very good news and hopefully the government will not see any reason to further delay the project.

From a purely personal point of view, I can't improve on my seat at Goodison but, for the good of the club, I pray this goes ahead. May we be once again be seen as the premier club in the city.

Positive news. Is planning permission being granted now a formality next week?

I can't see any way in the current economic and political climate that the government would have any wish to slow an investment of this nature.

Hopefully the funding is in place to start as soon as approval comes through and a new home for the start of 2024-25 season could be a reality.

Thomas, even though they never built it, they got planning permission on a nod and a wink – unlike anything we put forward.

Must have lost last night...

I wish our team selection was this predictable.

Nick, see Rob #25.

The time it takes for approvals is easily understood, it will take about 2 weeks for it to get from Everton to the Government as it goes through people who are employed by the government to read the address and pass it on to the next person.

Next it arrives on a government officials secretary's desk and sits there until she thinks it is important enough for her boss to have. He gets it and decides which minister it should go to and sends it to his secretary's desk. She makes out his or her schedule for the week and sends it to them with the rest of their schedule.

The minister then sends it to a junior minister to see if all the correct procedures have been followed for him to receive it. Next, he will ask his secretary to inform the members of the committee to set up the meeting. One month later, the meeting takes place and after a week of discussion an answer is sent to another minister for approval. 6 or 8 weeks later Everton get an answer.

And now you understand why people want a position in the government.

I have never had any doubt about this stadium being built.

The new stadium will act as a development catalyst for the North docks and add to totally transforming the area to mirror the South end.

To turn down this opportunity, via local or national government objection, would be madness after Everton's thorough approach to satisfy planning requirements of a heritage site.

The tearful one getting the bunting ready. Let's hope we still in the top tier when it's up.

If it's built, I for one will be buying at least two season tickets for it after years of letting my Goodison tickets go. Travel from Ireland and abject performances didn't justify the outlay.

Who has the final word on this, the Celestial Court, the gods on Mount Olympus? What a bleeding, long drawn out rigmarole this has become.

Wonderful, now we can be embarrassed in unobstructed view luxury. Can't wait.

Rob. Yes. I was a bit too cynical there. I'll take all the good news I can get though.

Tony (2).

Regrettably, this is the state that we have become (the UK). We produce and manufacture very little (that the world wants at the prices we want to charge), our primary output is now "services" that can be got elsewhere (probably cheaper).

We have, however, become a massive bureaucracy, with layer upon layer of government and pseudo-government "Quangos", telling us how our lives should be lived and managed.

I honestly believe that, after the effects of Covid-19 and the devastation this has writ upon the economy, people will start to realise that the job of the bloke living next door to you, who works for the local council and is earning £20,000 a year more than you, isn't really necessary for the good order of your borough and that if that job disappeared tomorrow, no-one would be worse off, except your neighbour.

When that happens – then the new "economic revolution" in the UK will start to happen.

Until then, this is the "red tape" we have to suffer.

The irony is it will be next week... after the derby.

Just another depressed and cynical Blue after last night.

It looks like zoom calls are going to save companies a fortune on travel and hotel expenses when things get moving again, Hugh, as we move ever more forward into the computer age. It scares the hell out of me, mate, too many people and not enough stuff to go round.

Brian @35 - I can't wait to get my season ticket in the Uncle Cyril's Memorial Stand, right by the sculpture of the famous handle bars where it all started etc.

Very interesting point on manufacturing, Hugh. I have had many a debate on the fact the UK economy produces little but consumes a lot. It provides services (public and private sector), goes shopping, and has (or will have again) a thriving hospitality sector. All very valuable parts of the economy, but we don't produce a lot via manufacturing that we sell in the bigger scheme of global things.

Germany meanwhile is the economic powerhouse of Europe. Because they have maintained a very healthy and strong manufacturing sector. Top of my head, without looking: BMW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Bose, Siemens, Bayer, Bosch, Adidas.

Now I've probably over-simplified matters and there are likely some economic wizards on here as this site genuinely never ceases to amaze, but is that is my high-level view.

Danny - have a look at the Mittelstand. German powerhouse, non-Anglo Saxon type values and principles (arguably far more successful).

I wasn't aware of that Nick, but at a quick glance, a few of those values stood out. Responsibility to society, regional links, specialisation over generalist (jack of all trades) and long term planning. Interesting that the British equivalent, although as important, takes a much short-term outlook.

Thanks for the pointer.

Article in the echo saying that whilst Uniesco, won't come round, (nothing major to worry about, because there are plenty on their very stringent naughty list) the other objectors, are now not going to pose any problematic issues, so this is all looking positive, hopefully.

The discussion relating to our economy is interesting. Britain still has a number of successful manufacturing businesses; JCB, Aston Martin, Bentley, JLR, Triumph Motorcycles for example but they are simply not on the same scale as the likes of; Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW. I think I am right in stating that music was our biggest export a few years ago, I was wondering if that is still the case? Also, will the success of the Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine improve our position within the manufacturing sector or does that fall into a different category such as pharmaceuticals?

Always going to be a slow process, now that the planning officer has approved the proposal, the City Council will definetly rubber stamp it. It's worth over a billion pounds to the city's economy and in the present climate, it's huge for Everton and the City, and unlike Stanley park, Moshiri will get the funding mechanism in place, unlike the redshite american owners, who won't spend there own money.

Small stadium compared to our rivals, no ambition here

John#51 No ambition? It's costing over £500m and capacity over 52,000. The Etihad has 55,000, Spurs and Arsenal 60,000. The redshite built a new stand only, especially for corporate business, not for the fans, and Moshiri building a new state of the art stadium, unbelievable.

What you touch on Neil is that the UK has some fantastic brands that are globally renowned but are niche and sought after by those who seek the status and brand. Like you say the difference isn't standard or quality, but scale.

Right, as someone who can just about look after their savings, and is not an economic guru, I'll quit now, but good points raised on the subject.

“We produce and manufacture very little (that the world wants at the prices we want to charge)” - price of goods is inextricably linked to cost to manufacture, which is dominated by wage bills (the workers in quantity, the bosses in excess), which have to meet cost of living, which is increasingly dominated by property costs. We gave up our last chance to properly compete through manufacturing when the politicians allowed mortgage regulation to slacken and the general public applauded them for it / took no notice.
Someone mentioned specialisms. We have retained top notch pharmaceutical manufacture because quality levels to market in US and Europe are sufficiently high that the Tiger economies have struggled to get approvals just by throwing up fancy new facilities. Now we are out of Europe, if we don't continue to match their standards (harmonisation) then we will lose that market. If we end up in direct competition with India and China for the weaker standard contracts then we won't last long.

No ambition John, have you had a good luck at the details, the stadium is built to hold 52,000, rising to 62,000 for safe standing, which by 2024 all being good and well, will be brought in.

It is 12,000 more than we currently have, with no obstructed seats to worry about.

But we want to match European and US standards as we want to trade (and compete) with those markets right? I don't see why we suddenly wouldn't. It's a bit like the data regulation side of things. The UK has long had the most strictest in the world, yet suddenly because we are not in the EU (we are still in Europe), they will slip? Arguably we set those standards and others follow.

I think the UK has always focussed on quality and standards hence the niche brands. Germany just takes it a step further as they do it on scale.

Positive area though with the pharmaceutical sector. Science and medicine an area we have rich heritage in and we can look to our own Liverpool University in that respect.

The club has done it's market research on the capacity in my opinion. Some of Europe's biggest names have done or are in the process of downscaling because of playing in half empty soulless stadia. Why have 75,000 seats if only 45,000 are present? City get ribbed now for the "Empty-had", yet regularly play in front of 40+000. Likewise Arsenal, declaring a sell out based on season ticket sales when it's obvious 20,000 are missing some weeks. A 60-70,000 seater stadium can look like an empty library even with 40,000+ inside, which has an impact on the atmosphere despite what is a healthy crowd that would pack Goodison to the rafters right now.

I can't see anything other than positive in this and it looks like it's happening.

Brian@55; I don't really want to piss on your chips mate, but thoughts keep popping up in my head about the nature of Governments and Bureaucracy In a Post Covid - Social Distancing world.
They love regulation, control, being seen to be 'doing something'. They also love a 'purely temporary interim measure' too.
shoving more people in a semi enclosed space via safe standing just won't happen just yet...even with a vaccine, the true effectiveness of which may take a few years to be assessed.

I can quite easily envisage a world were stadiums and all 'public assembly' type places will be re-licensed for smaller numbers, at say 75% of the old capacity if we're lucky.

The Govt. / F.A. etc. will do it in stages, call it a phased return, a temporary back to normal road map thing and pluck a figure out of the air...say 20%, softly, softly, baby steps, no need to rush etc, in case it all turns to custard, start there and work it up.
But a full house, shoulder to shoulder, cheek and jowl, Goodison, I doubt it. BMD will be built before we get to that stage.

Yes, I know, its being so cheerful as keeps me going etc. But at the speed its going now, a good few on here...me for one...will be statistically doing well to see BMD actually built.
Under normal 2019 rules, I am/was fit enough to fly halfway round the world now and I had it pencilled in for this year and another for the grand opening - all just plans 18mths ago, but in 3, 4 or 5 yrs, who can tell.

Just get the 'kin thing built will yis.

Darren # 3

Love it but it does sound a tad eye watering! Can we all come to the next one?

I don't think even this inept government will sit on this for very long; they're desperate for some good job creation news, especially in the north.

This will be the catalyst for the re-development of the north end docks area just as the Albert Dock was for the south end.

Neil #49
Bentley is owned by Volkswagon, Rolls Royce is now owned by B.M.W. J.L.R. is owned by Tata Motors of India who also purchased Jaguar from Ford. J.C.B. and Triumph motorcycles are still owned by British Companies.

Why does it take so long?
The word sinecure comes to mind but usually it can take less time the more money you have and the greater kudos politicians, including local councilors, expect to gain from it.

Or possibly somebody wants to know exactly where the sofa is now and what exactly the problem is the ring fence around the back of it is causing.

BB always wheels out a Stadium press release after a bad result. Nothing is agreed until it is agreed.

Jerome the press wheeled this out first. It was already in the public domain when Everton "wheeled" this out.

This is such an important step. A new stadium is absolutely vital in transforming the feel of the club. We do look seriously antiquated - backward even - due to our stadium. It also keeps Moshiri interested, without whom we might well be screwed.

I don't think we need be concerned by the size of the stadium either. Sounds about right.

Brent # 63. Seriously mate, I don't want we bother (you know what I mean).

Regarding the capacity of the new stadium, is it not big enough?, who knows, but at least there is scope to increase it. Don't know if anyone is aware of this, but when Juventus built their new stadium, they actually reduced their capacity down to just over 41K. The reason being the old stadium, with a capacity of 67K was never full, so it was decided that a smaller, packed home ground would be more beneficial. On the big nights, it can be considered an arena worthy of one of the best clubs in the world. They also have scope to increase the capacity of required. So the old saying of "big is not always best" springs to mind!I

And I know we always sell out every home game, and have a waiting list of over 10K for season tickets, before some bright spark posts to remind me!

Know what you meant, Rob!

I made that very point earlier Rob and had Juventus in mind. Roma too are moving from the Studio Olympico (70,000+) to a new stadium with a capacity of 52,500.

FFS Brent, could have sworn I typed Don't know why we bother?

Finally looks like we are nearly there but even if the Government agree quickly on this it still seems a long way away. We have been discussing new stadiums for ages whether it was Kings Dock or Kirkby and now BMD.

I know many hope that the new stadium will turn our fortunes around and lets hope they are right. My concern over the new stadium is how are we going to get 52,000 people in and out of the ground on match days. Unlike Goodison which is surrounded with Parking opportunities, the plans are to reduce parking at BMD to encourage people to use public transport. But how you get 52,000 people to the ground on public transport will need some planning. Maybe a purpose built railway that would run from Lime Street to BMD with trains running every couple of minutes like the tube to Wembley does. Wouldnt it have been great if they hadnt dismantled the overhead railway, could you imagine the sight of trains running into BMD on the overhead railway would be brilliant.

It's not the size that matters (no puns please) but the atmosphere that's created! If this lockdown continues we'll soon have posters on here who don't remember what a ground full of fans was like, never mind winning a trophy.

Dan Meis told me the acoustics were going to be amazing, so with 30,40,50.000 fans inside the ‘Grand New Lady' the noise level should be more than satisfactory.

If it was up to me, I'd bring back the feet stomping on wooden floorboards and the use of rattles and rosettes. Let's go all retro.

That's interesting about Roma, Danny. I wonder if rise of TV coverage + covid might change the culture of attending matches. I'd rather have a smaller full stadium than a half empty huge one.

This could still drag on for a while yet, just for comparison. There are applications for two large housing developments close to where I live. In January last year the council deferred them due to access issues for deliveries. The builders appealed to the Secretary of State, a meeting regarding this was held in December, we are still waiting for the final decision.

Regarding the capacity, I doubt it will ever reach the 62000. For an increase of 10,000 would lose 20,000 seats for 30000 safe standing places. Also lowering the roof means there is no opportunity for an additional tier.

Brian post 69, you will be advocating super fit athletic players next with a winning mentality and same for the board. Tangerine trees marmalade skies my friend. ( Sorry that hope killed me again ) Now realise Bob and slim have left town for good,

The long and winding road Brian.

We will get there with this owner and manager imo

I am won over 52 888 is fine by me as the atmosphere and acoustics will be amazing in there. As has been said the shift to many more games on tv will likely continue to a large extent. This will temper demand a little. I'd rather have a belting atmosphere full house than a bigger stadium with empty seats.

It's taken me long enough to spot it, but I wonder if the architect of BMD was inspired by the sterns of old ships, like HMS Victory, when drawing up plans for the exteriors of the stadium ends? It is appropriate enough for the waterfront of one of the world's most famous ports.

Hugh at 41, the ills of the UK economy are due to unnecessary lowly council employees ? Please expand.

Don't know about that Mike, but I thought this article on the beeb kind of sums up the red tape culture that others have been pointing to;

Link

Peter - I'd say food safety was definitely not the best example given the current wet market induced pandemic.

Peter - and factor in that Environmental Health team staff numbers, in line with most council departments, have been absolutely slashed over last 10 years.

Many Councils in deprived areas are at breaking point.

Mike - I assume the point is personal to you so I am not taking the piss and will defer to you if you've direct experience in this, but the virus is unlikely to be spread through food unless they are selling bat soup. Sensible handling and hygiene of course apply to the amateur and professional chef alike.

But that people who were a few short months ago being praised by the BBC for showing the enterprise to keep the roof over their head are now being questioned by the standards agency highlights a little bit of the bureaucracy that has been alluded to. Especially in regards to how it stifles enterprise.

I'd like to think that everyone involved in the sale of domestic cooking is aware of the risks and benefits, for the record.

For anyone who wants a good laugh, go to the the Red echo website, where there are loads of different articles on the new stadium at the moment. Then go to the comments on each article. My god, talk about jealousy from the RS fans. This is really destroying them that this new stadium is finally going to happen. You'd think with them being current premier league champions (not for long though) and also recently having won the champions league, they wouldn't feel the need to mock us, but no, their comments are clogging up the Red echo website!!

Yes I'd like to think that too haha! No, food safety is not my area but you'd be surprised how much lax and dangerous food hygiene your local council deals with. I'm sure the vast majority of the work is to educate and advise people involved in those businesses. I'd say that, in turn, should breed consumer confidence. I remember when it was a given for at least half your party to have the runs on a trip abroad due to dodgy food safety!

It is late in the day to discuss this but will BMD have a Boys Pen?

“ Unlike Goodison which is surrounded with Parking opportunities”.

Where do you park on match days (Brian 68), mate, coz I always have a mare finding somewhere and normally have a 15/20 minute walk (although it is free). Aren't they're planning to have (paid) underground parking or some large car park next to it to accommodate traffic?

52k is bang on imo.

BMD is about a 30 min walk from lime street station, even less if you get off in Sandhills. Unless you are old, infirm or both a good brisk walk will do you a world of good!

Also, there will be buses, taxis, bikes, rickshaws, donkey rides and even elephants to transport the rich and lazy.

Colin. Most of our midfield need that help to move about, I hope the away dams are up in the gods out of eye view like at old t and Newcastle, preferably behind a Perspex screen so you can hear them either. All game changers or are we not savvy enough for that line of thinking.

Meant to say away fans !

There was talk of putting a railway station in place at one point.

I think we might take the old Trafford route, where a new station platform was built for a tram service.

I think it will only be a matter of time, before trams are brought in around Liverpool, it works well in a Manchester, Bury and parts of South Yorkshire, and the route to Bramley Moore dock is the perfect link up for starters.

Could also build a park and ride over the water, with a ferry service as a link, sure people will know a lot more than me, but just throwing out possible suggestions for match Day traffic and parking.

First though, let us get it rubber stamped next Tuesday.

Public transport the way forward Brian, I agree.
Need central government to throw a lot of money at it (don't hold your breath)
Think you will also get a lot of fans walking from town. I'm sure there will be plenty of hostelries built to break the walk.

Good shout mate

Brian (88), at an Everton AGM about three or four years ago Joe Anderson said a train station was part of the plans for that area whether Everton FC were granted permission to build the new ground there or not.

Cheers Dave, thought I had heard something mentioned about a station, doubt it will be Joe giving the go ahead now though :-)

Unless he becomes Mr Bridger mk2

Just read the Echo and its comments re the stadium and I have but one wish, that LFC fall into administration and are kicked out of football leaving one club, the original club of the city of Liverpool, as standard bearers. I am sure half the city wish the same on us but the stadium will forever be a thorn in their side, for that I smile.
I used to think we were all cut from the same cloth, but now I realise they are not, we chose not to sell our souls for the glitter and a pact with the devil, instead we chose to be on the side of the angels on the banks of the Mersey, next to The Liver building, lit up in royal blue, a shining beacon to BMD.

Much like the statue of liberty, it makes a statement of a city in blue. Welcome to the home of football, welcome to those who love Everton, they will travel from the four corners of the world just to be there. A pilgrimage that must be undertaken.Build it and they will come.

They are dreading Everton getting the new ground, right on the Liverpool water front, this will gnaw at them for years.

This stadium is going to be iconic for the club and for the City as it will be a development catalyst for the whole area.
The fans of the dark side must be in meltdown when they see what we will have in place.
I predict that the 52k capacity will be sold out every game, attendances always improve when football clubs move to a new stadium. Link that to better parking, and access, people from North/East/South and West will all find it easier to attend, there will also be day tourists and package deals and expansion of corporate facilities.
The potential to rise to 62k is an option that the club will need to consider in the future because I truly believe they will need it.
Brilliant to see the dream happening.

It could be that our neighbours are worried we are taking up their spot where they park their long ships, on match Days.

There has been many a time in my life when I remembered the excitement of walking into the ground and taking my seat in the stand on a cold winters night, the breath taken from you as you see the pitch lit up in its splendour and the pride in the roar of expectation. Such was Goodison park, it always made me grin, brought a tear to my eye. Such is love.
Not one stone has been laid at BMD yet, but the foundations are set in the hearts of every Evertonian. I for one will cry on that cold Tuesday night in February as the roar of the crowd greats the team playing once more in the Champions league.

Christine #92 my sentiments exactly. I cant wait for this to happen now. As much as I love GP a new iconic waterfront stadium will be special.

I believe cruise ships stop in Liverpool and they should be back up and running by the time this beautiful stadium is built.
This will be ideal for passengers taking the Liverpool tour especially passing it on the way to the cruise terminal.

The foundation's are set in the heart of every Evertonian, brilliant Christine. Singing we shall not be moved Of-course!!

Liverpool has been doing really well as a weekend destination for a few years now Bill, but once this pandemic is over and this stadium kickstarts the regeneration, I think it's going to become the place to be, once again?

Kindly pack that in please Christine.
You have brought a tear to a grown mans eye there.

Bill, there are plenty of cruise ships berthing in Liverpool every week. About 3 or 4 years ago we had the 3 Cunard Queens ships, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Victoria and Queen Mary 2 sail into the Mersey all at the same time. Was a brilliant sight to see, and just a pity the new stadium wasn't around then. Hopefully they all return together soon, but I believe at least one of them sails into Liverpool every now and then. Can just imagine the passengers gasping at our shiny new stadium as they pass, and asking “where's the RS stadium”? Ok, Cunard passengers wouldn't say RS, but you get my drift!!

This sure beats the conversations we had over Black Bill and Destination Kirkby.

Well at 80yrs old this gives me another incentive to live and put a game at Bramley_Moore Dock on my bucket list. What a lifetime achievement that will be after playing on Goodison Park in 1952 to attending a game in the mid 2000s.
As for Goodison Park, have to go on that saying, Trophies gather dust, Memories last forever.

When asked for directions for LFC the taxi driver just said, "They play on Stanley Park"

I woke at 5 am to write my posts above, it's still dark here at 6 am, but I am going to pull the covers back up, smile in the dark and dream of all things blue..

Rib post 102. I think plans are already underway to install a terminal big enough for cruise ships and so take the business off Southampton because let's face it, Our night out in the town centre before a world cruise will be a lot more exiting than Southampton. Plus all that the Albert Dock etc has to offer. Them other shower hate the thought of all this grandeur with us the focus point while their loft conversion stands offer nothing deep in a suburb. By then big dunc will have learnt off the professer enough to make us dominate for years to come. Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Goodison has always been a nightmare for parking. Even though public transport will help, congestion is a part and parcel of any football stadium, particularly after the game. The build up tends to be better as people have their own pre-match routines, but the final whistle bomb burst creates inevitable congestion.

Seen lots of schemes, but they don't avoid that. Schalke has direct trams and your public transport for the day is free if you have a match ticket. Great on the way in, but they have to implement crowd control all the way from the ground to the tram station and it can take forever to actually get on a heaving one. I always end up walk a mile or so down the main road stop for a drink and then move on, much like at Goodison these days now I tend to get the train.

It's just inevitable when you have 40, 50 or 60,000 trying to leave a stadium at once. Maybe that is where we go with Tottenham's approach. Unfortunately they have barely got to test it, but they built restaurants and bars inside the stadium concourse. Not pie & pint stands, but actual bars - apparently the longest in Europe technically. The idea is the match day experience changes and fans remain in the stadium after the match for longer as there is more to do, dispersing as and when they want to. Good commercial aspect to that for the club too.

Eyes gather dust with posts like that Bill.

Danny #108 you're definitely right about the parking at GP. I always end up driving as its a pain for me getting public transport from wavertree, but can't wait for the new stadium. Quick bus ride into town, watch the game and few beers afterwards before getting the bus home. Happy days for me. Even better if they put actual bars in the concourse for after the game. Be quite happy to go there after the game.

Brian # 106. Cunard are in the process of building a brand new ship to add to their fleet, due to be launched in 2022. I understand that it will be the biggest ship in their fleet, so obviously when it sails into its “Roots” it will need a brand new terminal to berth at. Two magnificent structures, Cunards brand new ship, and BMD soon to grace the magnificent waterfront of the city of liverpool!

Rob,

There may be more passengers on the New York ship who are familiar with the derogatory terms for the neighbours than you think.

Do you know about the Cunard Yanks?

Rob #102 and #110, I've just decided how I'm going to make my next trip over there. To hell with Heathrow and dragging my suitcase between trains. I'm shipping out.

Start your own company Mike, a ten night voyage to watch Everton, plus two nights in the City, staying besides the Cabin Club, LET IT BE!

Mike, sounds like a plan! You can give Carlo and Pete Mills a wave as you sail past Crosby beach!

Rob & Mike G. I trust Cunard will be given mooring preference over Norwegian Cruise Line - because we know who they'll be supporting.

Get Paul McCartney to play a gig there to open the stadium, he owes us after playing a gig across the Park.

Could kick the gig off with back in the ussr, with a sly wink to Usmanov.

And slow that liner down as you pass me in my pedalo on my way to the match, Mike.

Brent, you couldn't pedal up to Garson docks and give us a lift, could you?

I think the proposed size is realistic given the size of our fan base and the current transport links in the area and that there is room for further development in the future if the infrastructure of the area improves and there is suitable demand post pandemic. In the past when I have lived away from home I have adopted local teams to follow. Charlton Athletic when living in London in the early eighties, what was a reasonable crowd for the times seemed miniscule given the venue. Likewise when I followed Torino when they played in a massive ground that was built for Juventus. Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool have made football expensive for their traditional fan base but ideal for the package football fan. Manchester City and West Ham despite being massively subsidised by the tax payer , so far have failed in that quest and I would suggest unlikely to succeed, if you exclude the desired "sports washing" of human rights issues and selling sex.

To see a Mersey ferry with blue and White flags fluttering as it docks at the the new stadium would indeed bring a year to my eye.

Even thinking about it brings me to a happy place 😀

It'll cost you a pint, Rob. And you pay the lad to mind me pedalo.

Deal, Brent, providing you do all the pedalling!

No drugs, Rob. No drugs.

Tony, good business plan if we add in a couple of taxi tours.

Brent, I'll have the captain take it up to ramming speed. Bring a flotation device.

John and others, wouldn't it be great if Moshiri found a bit of loose change down the back of the sofa to rescue the Royal Iris from rotting away on the Thames and had it docked right by the new stadium as a cafe/bar. Sadly it's beyond repair, but holds many memories

Mike “ I'll have the captain take it up to ramming speed. Bring a flotation device.”

Already in hand - it's Rob.

Mike..........Ramming Speed.............. that will be the RS coming over from Norway in their Viking ships!

Brent, I actually had that exact quip in my comment. Deleted it right before posting.

Christine #96, great post but it should be supplied with a box of tissues

Anthony funnily enough I was involved in the referb of a boat electrically in the isle of dogs to provide a bistro/cafe for the staff and visitors of the the daily telegraph, not quite as big as the royal iris but I would volunteer my work for free on such a project
A bit pie in the sky I know.

Tony #113, Speaking words of wisdom

John#131, maybe start off with Brent's pedalo by customising it so take two safely and then as you get back into the groove work with Mike G on his new marine based venture.

I could take the peddles out and fit a small outboard motor put in two extra seats and have a mini shuttle, able to cruise from garston to Crosby via the BMD.

Rob#114, I'll be expecting Gaynes to be dropped off on a pedalo to make his way onshore at the baths.
He owes us a pint.

John, that sounds great. I might be placing an order myself. I live near Nantwich not far from the Shropshire Union Canal. So, should be able to get to BMD via the canal network I reckon. May have set off the day before though so could do with a few modifications.

Neil, does the Shropshire union canal flow near to the Manchester ship canal? If so, you can sail up both canals and into the river Mersey then onto Garston docks. Brent can pick us both up there then!

Funny comments above. That was one of the things l put down when they asked for fan feedback. I was living in Heswall at the time. How great would it be to be able to take a ferry cross the royal blue mersey to home games.

Rob, I can feel this pedalo getting lower and lower in the water. You'll be selling tickets for a cruise and dinner next.

Rob, that's a great idea, I am sure I can work it out.

Brent, once John has made the mods to your pedalo can I cadge a lift with Rob please. Buy you a pint.

Don't worry, Brent. After all your pedalling you'll have calf and thigh muscles like Mr Motivator!!

Well if they provide paid parking and public transport I wonder what will happen to those well known business entrepreneurs, Mind ye car mister,

Girls aloud to open the new stadium,

Or the pogues

Bill # 142, they will looking after Brent's pedalo and Mike's cruise fleet

They'll be hired in a more formal capacity by the club to bring some of the nostalgic heritage to the new Stadium Bill. But they will be made to go legit, be given a make over and issued with proper official attire to wear, including a cap. In a kind of American hotel valet parking way, they will be rebranded to "park ye car mister, please".

During a thread last year the question of transport came up. I posted this

Trackless Trams
Article - The Conversation

as a potential low cost solution.

I can't find my post but I suggested that the City of Liverpool and Peel share the costs of a pilot scheme from the bottom of James St to the new stadium.

The potential long term benefits to both organisations would seem to me be quite significant.

Something bothering me about the picture at the head of this thread.

Wasn't that large overhanging bit deleted in the planning amendment? It looks like it contains significant terracing.

To complete our world ( or just Mersey domination) we should dye the Mersey royal blue like the Chicago river is dyed emerald green on st paddy's day. All adds to the anger and frustration of them shower as well as the blue lit up liver buildings and so on. Especially on match days ( nights )

Speculation that Cunard's new ship will be called the ‘Queen Anne' . or that they may go back to the ‘nia' endings like the Mauritania. Maybe the ‘Evertonia' is on their list?

Failing that Brent could write it in marker pen on the side of his pedalo.

Given that Juve's new stadium had a 41K capacity against the 67K of their old one, does anybody know how much entrance cost in the old stadium, the price when the new one opened and the price now?

Article today on the red echo website, giving a breakdown on the seating at BMD. It goes on to say that from the 52888 capacity, 43880 will be standard home seats, 5334 will be premium seats, 448 will be box seats, and only 2968 will be for away fans.

I assume that premium seats are the suites built within the stadium, so a significant increase in what we have now. Going on the basis that most executive boxes hold about ten people, that means there will be about 45 executive boxes around the stadium. The away allocation is only about 300 more than what it is now, so good news all round.

Don't hold me to it but I think this is the link to the live LCC Planning Committee meeting at 9.45 Tuesday morning re BMD approval.
Link

Agenda etc here:
Link

Being reported that VVD might be attending!

Well the stadium decision and Goodison should take all of an hour. Looks like they have the rest of the day off!

Brent, huge. HUGE thanks. Two excellent links.

On the agenda link one of the supporting documents a downloadable PDF, Agenda Item 3 - Appendix 09 - Reasons for Approval, item 2, is well worth a read.

Nine pages long, an easy read, it has various sub-headings. For me, these are the main takeaways:

Principle of Development

'Having very carefully considered the information submitted the Local Planning Authority is satisfied there are compelling reasons for the stadium to be located at Bramley Moore Dock and a convincing case why the
significant public benefits will deliver outweigh the substantial harm to the heritage assets to justify the development.'

Heritage Issues & WHS

Whilst acknowledging that the site is 'sensitive from an historic environment perspective', with a likely 'impact historic assets', the club is praised as it 'has liaised closely with Liverpool City Council and Historic England all the way through the application process and been guided by the constructive
advice provided.

This section concludes by saying 'Although it is acknowledged that the development
will result in harm to heritage assets...it is considered the
development would bring significant public benefits to an area that is in real need. The application is a unique opportunity and it is considered there are compelling
reasons why on balance the development is necessary to achieve substantial public benefits that outweigh the harm that would occur.'

Transport, Highways & Traffic Management

The proposal 'meets with all current transport policy at national, regional and local levels... with only
a minor impact upon the operation of the [existing transport] network...and will not disadvantage the traveling public or businesses.'

'A package of traffic and pedestrian management measures. will manage and mitigate the impact of the traffic generated and ensure people's safety.'

Some of the listed measures to be implemented will be:

* Kerbside parking across a wide area within a 20 minute walk to the stadium
* Ensuring local residents and businesses are not disadvantaged
* Introducing a crowd corralling system is introduced at Sandhills Station on match days to ensure the platforms do not become overcrowded
* Additional shuttle buses from the City Centre
* Three additional taxi ranks on matchdays
* Coach parking to the north of the stadium on Regent Road, with additional coach parking to the north of Sandhills Rail Station

Design

'Historic England have been fully involved in all stages of the process and notwithstanding their reservations...HE have acknowledged the design is sensitive to its surroundings and respectful of its context.

'...the design is sympathetic to the local character
and history of the docks...[which will] create a distinctive and attractive building with good architecture that will make a strong impression and takes full advantage of its prominent waterfront location.

A number of sub-headings follow, related to the envionmental impact of the build:

* Environmental Impact Assessment and Habitats Regulations Assessment
* Ecology
* Flood Risk
* Land Contamination
* Air Quality
* Noise and Vibration
* Wind and Microclimate

A bit too jargony to my eye, but basically the proposal again meets all legal requirements.

Inclusive Access

For disabled supporters, whilst due to the site constraints the stadium will have a relatively low number of car parking spaces in comparison with other football stadiums which [impairs a] disabled supporter's ability to access the stadium by private transport [there will be] facilities within the stadium and access arrangements for disabled people including the provision of additional shuttle
buses free of charge by prior appointment.'

The report even describes Everton's stadium proposal as 'exemplary' in terms of accessibility and inclusion for the disabled.

Impact on Surrounding Area / Neighbouring Businesses and Residents

Basically, an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) considers 'that the stadium building and associated works will not have a significant adverse impact in terms of daylight / sunlight /overshadowing; noise and
vibration; wind/microclimate; and air quality either during construction or [once operating].

However, on match days or when events are held there, 'occupiers of nearby premises will [experience] road closures...[due to] public safety and security reasons. [Such] measures are temporary in nature and should not
compromise the quality of life or business continuity to an unreasonable extent.'

Conformity with Liverpool Waters

Personally, I found this part telling, how it all integrates with the Liverpool Waters overall plan which the report describes as 'a key strategic regeneration project for the city.'

In this regard, the stadium meets with the compatibility with the balance of the Liverpool Waters development.'

Indeed, the report adds 'the stadium proposals will not prejudice the Liverpool Waters [but]...will in fact help open up development opportunities within the docks and attract further investment in the wider Liverpool Waters scheme.'

A BIG positive for us, IMO.

Security

No isssues on this front.

Regeneration

Quite a biggie, I reckon, and why LCC is getting behind this. Do we even get an inkling of the expected stadium cost with the line that the proposal 'represents a £505m investment in the area..?'

The report goes on: 'The proposed stadium is a unique opportunity that will provide significant economic
social and environmental benefits for the Kirkdale ward, North Liverpool, the city of Liverpool and the wider city region...in an area of the city which has experienced a long period of economic decline and needs regeneration. This is an important land use planning consideration (my emphasis).

Potential benefits listed are:

* at least a £1.3billion boost to the economy
* create more than the initially estimated 15,000 jobs
* attract 1.4million visitors to the city
* a positive ripple effect that will be felt across the city region's economy, with local families with members working on the development benefiting from £32million of income
* LCC seeing an annual return of £2.1million in Council Tax
* Business Rates income yielding a further £1.7million per year

Taken all together, 'the stadium development will provide physical, social and economic benefits that will transform the area...giving public access to the dock estate, re-developing disused land and creating job opportunities in an area where they are currently very few it is
considered there are sound regeneration reasons for approving the application.'

Finally...

Objections (aka 'We don't care what the RS say!'

'The vast majority of representations received have been overwhelmingly supportive of the proposed development.'

Thanks again Brent for flagging this up. Appreciated.

Jay, out of 14 pages of public comments received, only 2 comments were critical of the BMD proposal going ahead.

There's also a piece on the red echo website saying the estimate cost of BMD will be about £505M, and the cost of the Goodison park legacy about £82.5M. Altogether about 10K jobs will be created, although I have noticed that the piece posted by Jay above does say 15K jobs. Seems you can't trust the red echo for anything.

'out of 14 pages of public comments received, only 2 comments were critical of the BMD proposal going ahead.'

Let me guess, Brent.

Were the initials of the two complainants J.K. and VVD...?

Jay, VVD? Give him a break.

Behave, Brent!

If we get approval it will all be Pickford's fault

Jay and Brent, cracking posts, very informative - thanks

Anyone else been tuning in to the live stream? Lots of jargon so far - though I've only been dipping in infrequently - and a few odd questions e.g. what is the club doing about attracting local wildlife to the redeveloped dockland site?

No Paul, I've been following via tweets from those watching. Adam Jones of the Echo is tweeting updates.

I'm listening in. Will try to do summary. V positive so far. I'll submit something to Michael as a summary.

Brent, I'm listening in as well. Very positive so far. Peter Jones speaking very highly of the application, and has just said the application be approved.

The meeting started with a presentation from the club, going through all the reasons, benefits, construction etc. It was excellent. Moved on to lots of questions, comments from councillors. Up to now it seems only Historic England have negative comments.

Anthony, Peter Jones has just said the application be approved despite Historic England's disapproval. 😀😀😀

Even councillor Joe Hansen a self-declared red sees a compelling case. Very positive.

Joe Hansen giving it to Historic England with both barrels.

Brent, do you think it will get passed? Joe Hanson is absolutely glowing over the application. He said that the docks are a very important part of our heritage, but we cannot stand in the way of redevelopment.

Local Wildlife Christ it's a derelict dock site in a City are we talking rats, mice and wood lice here or have a colony of Marmosets set up residence or a herd of Wildebeest. Can these local Animals not be caught and re located to Anfield if the RSPCA will sanction Anfield as a suitable place for rats and woodlice.

All very positive so far. Strong support from Councillors.

I don't anticipate any votes against given comments so far.

All the time and hard work the club has invested in the public consultation exercises and the preparation of the planning application is paying off.

Superb presentation from club and responses to questions.

The chair clearly has steered committee to a positive conclusion.

Joe Dunne speaking a lot of sense. All listed buildings left to deteriorate need “upgrading” and not left to just rot and eventually collapse. I'm 100% certain this will be approved.

Just been summarised and close to taking a vote on it!!

APPROVED Re BMD. Unanimous

Unanimously approved

Unanimously approved!

APPLICATION APPROVED!!

Woohoo. Does that mean Destination Kirkby is definitely dead?

Now moving on to discuss the application regarding our legacy to Goodison Park area.

And we'll hang the kopites one by one on the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey!!

The only thing getting called in is their next loft conversion for the piggery. The city ( centre will be a mass of blue right down the Dock road. Can't wait.

Colin, The former regime ha ha. Very diplomatic of you considering nelly is still in the room. Anyway let the good times roll blue boys.

Amazing news. Great for the city as well and hopefully will bring further investment to that area.

Just did an Interview for Capital Radio on new Stadium - said “the future is bright the future is Blue”.

PS the committee chair had a rude message ("not for the minutes") for somebody called Barry and Jonathan.

Was the second word “Off”, Brent?

Rob, I can only say the first word started with "F".

The sound was a bit in and out but I swear I heard one councillor ask about parking for pedalos.

For a red, Joe Hanson speaks a lot of sense, and he's glowing over the Goodison Park legacy as well. He says it will be sad to see Goodison go but we need to move on.

Unanimous agreement re proposal for GP and listed buildings.

Pisses me off big style!!
These arseholes at the Club always make an announcement on the new ground after we get beat oh??

Rob, Joe Hansen spoke v passionately about the negative history around the walls at BMD to keep the poor out, and slave labour to build those walls. He sounds first and foremost a scouser and secondly a red.

What's the timescale for these things normally? We looking at a new stadium for the 2022-23 season or is that too optimistic?

3 years build was referred to.

Ah boo...but still good news!

Great work, Brent. 2024-25 season James.

This is bigger news than the derby and that was big...can rs heads fall off twice In a week?

I imagine the post-decision scenes with those answering the questions on zoom, will be similar to Saturdays dressing room.

I have to say the declared red Joe Hanson, just four days after the wounding defeat (for him!), was very gracious and fullsome in his praise of the club.

'I hope other developers in the city are taking note and learning from EFC how to prepare and present a planning application.'

Laid into Historic England too, didn't he?

Very gushing in his praise of EiTC also which, he notes, does so much good work and has helped lay the ground work for the Goodison legacy project. He even said 'Everton truly is the People's Club.'

Good to hear the chair, Tricia O'Brien closing the meeting by saying the fact that the full quota of councillors on the Planning Commitee attended and all voted unanimously in favour on both submissions will hopefully facilitate matters when they fall on the desk of the Secretary of State.

Now. Why didn't we lose on Saturday so conspiracists could have had a field day today: 'Everton that! Coming out with distracting stadium news after a defeat.'

BoJo and his government will approve this asap as, I am guessing, it would represent the biggest new build in the whole country and would be a huge stimulus to the battered economy, post-pandemic, post-Brexit.

Up, up and away, Blues.

At last just like our victory at Anfield its taken a long time but at last we now have planning permission to build the new stadium. I cant see the Government having any objections as life after the pandemic will need as many job creations as the country can produce.

So hopefully in 3 years time we can look forward to moving into a new stadium, and if we listen to those closely involved in the new stadium it will be something special. Now whether it can create the same atmosphere as Goodison then time will tell, but I am sure in time it will create its own unique atmosphere.

I know Barry in post 200 mentions that of the many clubs who have moved to a new stadium Leicester are one of the few to see a marked improvement in results. I well remember Arsene Wenger saying when they have built their new stadium they will be able to compete financially with any club in the world, well it hasnt happened yet.

My one request to the club is why not try were possible to move the groups of supporters who sit in the same seats year on year into the same places in the new stadium. So for example all season ticket holders in Glawdys street are moved en block behind the home end, and the same for the main stand and bullens road where I sit. I think what happens is when clubs build new stadiums they don't keep the same supporters together, so you move into a new ground surrounded by unfamiliar faces. And thats why I believe it takes a long while to reproduce the same atmosphere as happened in the old ground.

Brain "My one request to the club is why not try were possible to move the groups of supporters who sit in the same seats year on year into the same places in the new stadium."

Brain, that was my feedback as well, given West Ham problems.

Carlo just heard the news and nonchalantly sipped his afternoon expresso, raised a brow and said “this is football”.

It's great to be an Evertonian at the moment.

Martin, not one contribution today was from your man. They prepared superbly for that meeting. Superb.

I miss the old grounds. Dumps, admittedly. Mud bath pitches, no question but places like Burnden park, Baseball, Roker, Maine rd, Upton, WHL, the Dell etc... these were great places to go to watch footy, have a pie and a pint and then barely escape injury free.

They had character, history, tradition, smell and great atmosphere. I suppose we have to change with the times but I'll miss Goodison and all he memories it's given me.

Like Brian @221 said, the old grounds had a sense of community. You'd see familiar faces at every home. Have your own spot where to stand. The people in the pie shop knew what you'd ask for without saying - a cup of tea and a far drenched pork pie in my case. I doubt these new stadiums will ever match that.

Brent (223), Brent, Brian's going to brain you!!

Brent.

And the value of his shares have gone up.

Brent, why are you callin Brian, Brain? Did you see him on university challenge?

Dave #227 - sorry, my bad, ko?

Brian,
A great idea regards seating.The years I have sat in the same seat in the street end it's great to shake hands with the same people you only see on matchday but feel like you've known them for years
Even the ones who moan through the games, we always let's in and wink to each other, all great banter.
It would be a shame if what you suggest isn't taken up.I am sure you speak for the majority of matchgoers.Welk said !

Drive and vision.

Made me laugh that one

Don't know if now is too soon or too late but il say it anyway, the away fans should be up in the gods like at Newcastle and old t. Preferably behind a Perspex screen to subdue any noise they make. Imagine them shower trying to warble that Gerry marsden cack and all you can see is twisted Nordic faces with no sound. To me that's heaven. Small Victories and all that.

Hi All, in recent years I have been close to losing the will to live [metaphorically] football wise, but this long awaited news has rekindled my optimism, and I'm going to do my best to be one of the last to watch a game at Goodison Park, and one of the first to watch a match in the new stadium. 'Happy Days'

Brent@225, that is superb management surrounding yourself with people who are better than you when you need it. Believe me though, this is his ground and this bandwagon of a superb club are the club that Bill built.

Brian Murray that is a fantastic idea and hilarious.

His name is Billy K and he's the leader of our team, the greatest club director, the world has ever seen. What a song for when the fans get back? Born in the Boys Pen too, We need a Kim Jong Bill Statue.

Brian,

A true vision!

Brian
nice one!
However now we have brexit it's more than likely the 3,000 seats for the RS travelling support in the God's will be empty

Thomas
great riposte to Martin's ditty!
Nice one.
With Blue Bill's history regarding new grounds I would imagine he's keeping a low profile today. If not then he should!

John. Glad you are ( sort of ) in my corner or at least same school of thought.

Brian (234) I hate that stand at Newcastle but I am not sure sticking the away fans up there has helped the home team. I suspect it has actually diminished the atmosphere leaving all the grumpy locals to mutter about the pathetic performances of their team instead of chanting abuse at the away fans.

Martin post 238. Ok statue it is. The money for it is ring fenced. Ok ?

When it got to the sections about Air Quality and Wind and Micro Climate it brought a little smile to my face, after all, it is next to a sewage works.

Martin (222) -100% agree. Without Farhad Moshiri none of this would be possible.