Everton are reportedly close to appointing Nuno Espirito Santo as their next manager, with the final negotiations over a three-year contract expected to be concluded over the weekend.
Multiple reports from some of the most reliable sources in the media suggest that the 47-year-old Portuguese is the man Farhad Moshiri will turn to to fill the void left by Carlo Ancelotti who walked away less than halfway through his 4½-year tenure to retake the reins at Real Madrid.
Espirito Santo stepped down as the head coach of Wolverhampton Wanderers last month after four years in charge having guided the Midlands side into the Premier League and to successive seventh-place finishes before enduring a torrid campaign in 2020-21.
He appeared to be on the verge of being named the new manager at Crystal Palace earlier this week but talks abruptly collapsed, with sources citing Nuno's demands over the size of his backroom staff as being the chief stumbling block.
Reader Comments (833)
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1 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:11:25
What's not to like?
2 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:12:58
We keep giving these guys good contracts: Max 2 years with a 1-year option tops!
3 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:14:43
4 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:17:36
Im sorry, but its time to question Moshiri now. This is poor and lacks any ambition and vision.
5 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:20:02
6 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:20:23
Not sure thats what Evertonians want at all. We crave some intensity and energy and passion.
7 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:20:32
If it happens... best wishes to Nuno Esperito Santo. I mean, with a name like that, surely he has to be the one?
8 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:20:58
It's a No-no for me. In fact I won't bother next season watching games I'll go to work. Right off this laughing stock of a club.
9 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:23:04
I'd have fancied that French guy who just won the league but he's maybe not available having verbally agreed to go to Nice.
Anyway he'll get my backing if he gets the hot seat and good luck to him and us.
10 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:23:23
If it's Nuno, I'll support him for as long as the club is moving forward and he doesn't fill the team with defenders and defensive midfielders and bore the arse off us...
11 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:24:09
We'll be safe in mid-table but no more. A chance to make a real change has passed us by. Worryingly, if true this comes straight after Moyes confirms he's staying at West Ham. That speaks volumes to me. I'm hoping it's premature but looks like it's a done deal.
12 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:25:39
13 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:25:44
14 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:26:05
15 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:27:09
16 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:27:47
17 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:30:24
18 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:31:05
19 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:31:23
Intriguing to see if Ferguson and Co are now given their marching orders.
20 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:31:36
...but I'll wish him well and all the luck he can bring. Because we are Everton.
21 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:33:16
Obviously Top 4 by Christmas is a given. Good football, also. Here's how we judge it, marks out of ten:
The Brazil World cup winning team of 1970 = 10
Carlo v Sheff Utd = 0.0000005
You know what, getting half the team looking as if they give a fuck will do for me.
22 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:33:31
23 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:34:19
I'm prepared to at least give him a chance.
24 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:34:57
25 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:35:14
26 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:35:26
Fuck-all about footy does our Farhad know.
27 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:35:50
And maybe just maybe the sale of Jota, losing Jimenez, Sais, Johny and a few other injuries impacted on Wolves. First three years promotion; next 2 years, 7th-place finishes; last season poor, yes... but for fuck's sake, give the man a chance.
28 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:37:53
All this negativity gets us nowhere.
29 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:38:31
Let's get behind him and, if the results don't come, then start to criticise.
Look at Wolves when he first came in! What is it with the negative on here?
30 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:39:21
...or has he been told to wind his neck in and stop interfering?
But as I said earlier, I wish him well and Good Luck.
31 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:40:13
We just tried overbuying on the manager for no return but a disrupted overall strategy for players and style. So it is the Nuno no-nos versus the happy huddlers?
32 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:44:28
This looks like the Groundhog Day hiring of Marco Silva.
33 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:44:46
But I think the disappointment is both expected and understandable, especially when we've gone from our first "Hollywood manager" (regardless of how things ended) back to managers whose status in the game reflect where we are as a club and not where we want to be.
34 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:46:59
35 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:47:31
He's neither got a CV of trophies and proven pedigree, nor does he offer youthful hope. Maybe they are skint and don't want to pay compensation. Wolves have done well which is to his credit, good look to them as they are a historical club, but Everton are a different level with much higher expectations from the crowd in terms of winning and quality attacking football.
The likes of Walker and Silva came from smaller set-ups and always looked frozen and unable to cope with the pressure. Maybe I'm wrong and this fella will shake the club up and do well but I fear in 2 years he will be under pressure after two mid-table place finishes.
As fans, we will have to rally round and give him a chance. We are the only constant and only positive. The club hierarchy are just an embarrassment and continue to let us all down, year-in & year-out. 26 years and counting...
Everton are such a brilliant club and in historical terms huge but we have been awful for so long and sadly can't see that changing until a ruthless winning culture drives the club.
36 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:50:29
38 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:52:16
To paraphrase Al Pacino: "Well, I am over-fucking-whelmed!"
39 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:53:49
Also, I guarantee half the people slagging him off posted "Why can't we be more like Wolves?!" at some point during his first two seasons.
40 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:55:44
Obviously we will all support him
Not so obvious from that post!
41 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:56:33
This guy in every presser I've seen after a loss has been 'blah' – we need someone to turn the tide on "poor little Everton", every decision against us challenged and the squad fired up for battle and a siege mentality.
At the moment, I'd rather have Rafa the nark (which I never thought I'd admit). But, like I say, if it's him, I will wait and see and obviously wish him well.
But it just seems like a safe, dull and unambitious option to me.
42 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:57:25
43 Posted 11/06/2021 at 23:59:47
I understand he has a backroom staff of six.
[SIX backroom staff are leaving Wolves along with manager Nuno Espírito Santo following the end of the Premier League season.
. . .
Rui Pedro Silva (assistant)
Ian Cathro (first-team coach)
Julio Figueroa (first-team coach)
Rui Barbosa (goalkeeper coach)
Antonio Dias (fitness coach)
Joao Lapa (rehab coach)]
I have a problem with this in I can't find room for them at Finch Farm. . How is Duncan going to cope with two other first team Coaches.
By I am very underwhelmed by him as Everton Manager.
44 Posted 11/06/2021 at 00:00:24
45 Posted 11/06/2021 at 00:04:12
46 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:04:32
47 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:04:34
On a serious note, some of the critics of this move may want to consider how this speaks of our management team's reputation. Maybe we couldn't get anyone better on DECENT terms after the way that Italian love affair soured.
And can the TW team create a digital coat rack to make note of those who claim "that's it, i'm outa here"?
48 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:05:37
Shite manager, not just at wolves last season, but his career. He was shite at Porto. Hes won nothing. His coaching is shite. He doesnt develop youth. He just brings in whoever his best mate Jorge Mendes gives him. Dont think mendes will give us the next Ronaldo, because even if he does, hell just move him on. He still wants his cut.
I wont be watching that five at the back with two defensive midfielders crap. No thanks. Ive been waiting before renewing my season ticket (we get a bit longer in the peoples club) and I wont be. Im not paying to watch nuno football. See you in a year when the arsehole is sacked.
49 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:06:40
50 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:07:06
Based on your track record with Portuguese Everton managers I take that as a ringing endorsement
51 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:10:40
Was absolutely left treading water by Wolves selling Jota and the horrific head injury to Jimenez. Missing those two left Wolves neutered.
I must confess I don't want the guy but if he arrives he would get my support obviously. Would actually rather of had Potter to be honest but I guess to Moshiri he proposes a risk.
You do seriously have to question Duncan Ferguson now. Did he apply if not then why not? He's served as a coach now under 5 failed managers and hes still earning a wage how is this possible?
52 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:10:55
53 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:15:15
He won't be on £12m a year. Maybe that is the reason for his appointment , which I hope is not true.
54 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:16:51
55 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:18:11
Inevitably we will see another two seasons of mediocrity ended by another sacking.
56 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:23:00
I've always had the lowdown on Nuno from a Wolves supporting old university friend and have always been impressed with him.
I think there's a reluctance from many that he's another Portuguese so he'll be another Silva appointment, but in fairness Silva only hit fleeting heights and was only at Watford and Hull (who he also took down) for 5 minutes while Nuno has had a very good career in England in 3 out of his 4 seasons.
I would have still preferred Galtier or Rangnik and liked the romanticism of Dunc getting the job, but Nuno is a good appointment for me, albeit a step down from the status and reputation of Ancelotti, but so would any manager unless we appointed Conte, or Poch.
57 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:23:52
I'll concede Howe is more equipped to deliver the kind of football we all crave, but he'd come with an extremely high probability of disaster.
I have no interest in recycling former managers, though Roberto Redux would be comedy gold on here, if nothing else.
Anyway, I'm not particularly thrilled about Nuno and I'm not particularly devastated, and that pretty much sums it up.
58 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:26:22
59 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:31:25
60 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:35:49
Nuno Espirito Santo
61 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:40:09
Suppose the truth is he was the only manager who was interested in the job, who suited the Board. The Foreign prospects haven't answered the phone and Rafa and Pelligrini have been around too long and know too much for the Board. The list of prospects wasn't large , maybe even one. A mid table Manager at best for a midtable club.
Working Anchelotti out of the job, is possibly having repercussions.
62 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:42:52
Dreadful appointment if this goes ahead.
Please, for fucking once in the past 25 years, prove me totally wrong.
I won't hang by my balls waiting for that to come true.
63 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:50:23
We should count ourselves lucky to actually get a manager because its become a poisoned chalice. It doesnt help when you think the two people interviewing the potential candidate are Mosh and Bill. Apart from the money on offer they are unlikely to be the most enlightening of people to speak with. Moshiri has just become another Bill but with cash.
Obviously Duncan is not up for the job if Nuno is appointed. This should be the time for him to stop stealing a living and get out and start his own career in management although more than likely he will become a chauffeur for you know who.
65 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:54:24
A Vanilla appointment...but hey, who knows maybe the players will pull finger this time.
The wait was sorting the exit package...always 75% of all talks...and maybe waiting for Palaces comeback offer.
But that could just be me with my cynical head on.
67 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:02:35
68 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:08:34
Realise were a club that has a way to go to get back to the top table, all this negativity will only make it harder!!!
69 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:14:46
70 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:15:30
71 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:23:45
He did an excellent job taking a Wolves team in 15th place (in the 2nd tier) to 2 consecutive 7th place finishes in the prem in about 3 seasons. That is bloody impressive.
Granted this last season was a shit show but they'd lost most of their best players to injury, player sales and COVID.
I've just had a look on a Wolves fans forum and they clearly love the guy and are gutted he's gone:
72 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:26:39
73 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:38:58
74 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:46:03
Why can't we all come together an give this man a chance and unite behind him because, after all, isn't it what we we all crave for is hopefully success in some degree an not the the shower of shite we have seen for past 12 months from the so-called Carlo fantastic one that many were ecstactic when he joined? Even fat Sam was better than that charlatan.
75 Posted 12/06/2021 at 01:47:17
78 Posted 12/06/2021 at 02:00:59
79 Posted 12/06/2021 at 02:11:45
80 Posted 12/06/2021 at 02:22:35
Benitez, Moyes, Howe...(How he was ever considered is beyond me) and Potter.
A safe pair of hands is all he is but that's exactly what we need right now, someone to stabilise and get us to play something that even resembles joined up footy.
81 Posted 12/06/2021 at 02:23:16
Carlo got off to a flyer last season when he had his best 11 available. As soon as fate intervened with injuries and suspensions the lack of depth in our squad was plain for all to see. Carlo needed a plan B and it now appears to me his only solution was keep it tight and pinch 1 which led to some absolutely dire football. Then just when you thought it couldn't get worse we went to keep it tight and lose 1.
At the moment my thoughts on Nuno very much reflect Carlo. The first couple of seasons with Wolves he did OK when he had the full squad. Last year thanks to sales and injuries he too had a paper thin squad. His plan B was also keep it tight and pinch one and he was even less successful at that than Carlo. As Everton boss I wish him all the best but at the moment may expectations are not exactly sky ( 6 ) high to say the least.
Finally if he isn't a Brands appointment and his selectors are planning on him bringing his association with Mendes here, then what the hell is Marcel Brands doing at the club ?
82 Posted 12/06/2021 at 02:31:28
Its a done deal.
83 Posted 12/06/2021 at 02:52:36
84 Posted 12/06/2021 at 03:43:11
85 Posted 12/06/2021 at 03:57:46
86 Posted 12/06/2021 at 04:17:28
However James threw Carlo under the bus with his diva like behaviour, Mina & Richie are two of our most saleable assets and Bernard was out the door.
Allan and Gomes lack of pace restricts their effectiveness in the Prem unless Nuno intends to continue with our ponderous and laborious style of play.
The sleeping partner in this deal is Nunos agent Jorge Mendes who supplied Wolves with a number of their star players.
If we are committed down the the Wolves model then it seems logical that we will be taking a number of players attached to Jorge Mendes.
So will this “attachment” now trump Brands transfer strategy and importantly will we get first dibs on these players or will they be offered first to Bruno Lage at Wolves to ensure he is successful as he was recommended to Wolves by his agent, the aforementioned Jorge Mendes.
Wolves past season failure will mean Lage will be relying on Mendes to supply the talent.
If we (as is the norm) have promised Nuno to raid his old club for their prized assets then Mr. Mendes will get plenty dinheiro as he represents most if not all of these players.
But to prise them away will be big bucks as it was with Richie.
Wheels within wheels.
87 Posted 12/06/2021 at 04:33:55
Not my first choice (Galtier after what I've read on here the last few days) but I'm okay with it. At least it's not Benitez, Moyes, Pellegrini or Alan fucking Pardew. It could be a lot worse.
Good luck Nuno
88 Posted 12/06/2021 at 04:35:53
Why have a DoF like Brands?
Only for Moshiri to hire Nuno Santo and his Puppet master Jorge Mendes.
I actually dont think we have any direction, no identity just doing the same shit and expecting different results.
89 Posted 12/06/2021 at 04:41:30
90 Posted 12/06/2021 at 04:56:26
91 Posted 12/06/2021 at 05:40:36
92 Posted 12/06/2021 at 05:42:06
93 Posted 12/06/2021 at 05:43:13
Nuno is lower risk than any of those four for various reasons, and far preferable to any of the other candidates mentioned (Benitez, Moyes et al.). Critics seem to fixate on the most recent season, as if that defines the man and his entire career, while ignoring or minimizing the many positive experiences he would bring with him. He did very well with Rio Ave, and it is not as if his times at Valencia (4th in La Liga and CL entry) and Porto (2nd with 76 pts from 34 games) were exactly disastrous.
As for Wolves, they romped the Championship and were (in my opinion) a significantly better team than we were during their first two years back in the PL. Unlike Silva, Nuno had a system that largely worked, allowing him to compensate for the fact that his budget was relatively modest and significantly lower than ours. Personally, I found their style very attractive and could happily watch the likes of Neves and Moutinho pinging it around all day. And given that Jimenez, Jiota, and Doherty were all a big part of that system/style, it is hardly surprising that Wolves struggled in their absence. We would have struggled (even more) last year without Dom, Richy, and Coleman, who are their rough equivalents (Jimenez and Doherty are right now rather better than Dom and Seamus, I would say).
So I just don't understand all this negativity about him. One might add that he is obviously an incredibly intelligent, articulate, and charismatic individual, arguably more so than any coach we have had in recent memory, perhaps ever. Given that we are not a prestige brand club these days, with relatively limited funds, and no European football coming up, I don't know that we could have reasonably or realistically hoped for anyone better.
Finally, there is surely not a little to be said for the fact that he would be the first Black coach we have ever had. The list of Black coaches in PL history is still lamentably short. Among the larger, more established clubs, only Newcastle (Gullit and Hughton) and Chelsea (Gullit) have names on that list. Given EFC's at best rather mixed history in the area of race, the appointment of Nuno can only be a positive.
94 Posted 12/06/2021 at 05:51:01
Also agree with some that Wolves played some very attractive attacking Football when they first got promoted, and sustained that, till injuries and player sales (Joto to RS, just one for example). Which I believe was against his wishes, hence the discontent, and possibly the poor results and performances, were a casualty of those two factors.
I for one will get behind him, but would have preferred someone who was more dynamic, both in attacking play and recruitment of upcoming young and possibly unheard of players. Only time will tell, he may well surprise us all and unearth a few rare gems.
I wonder where this leaves Duncan, Baines, Jeffers and Ebbrell etc? Allegedly one of the stumbling blocks both with us and Palace was that he wanted to bring an entourage of backroom staff with him. If it gets us playing better and more attractively then why not, he must have his methods, I just hope that work well for us.
Again, this appointment leaves question marks on how much influence Marcel Brands had in the appointment process, because with all due respect Nuno does not seem to fit that criteria that Brands approves and likes to work with. I won't get too hasty and hope that results will do the talking both in pre-season and the first few games of the new campaign.
95 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:14:45
Moshiri is now apparently replacing him with an out of work fella whos won nothing, plays slow tempo, dull, defensive football. Hes as inspiring to me as a bloke I read about a few years ago who was a member of the ‘Dull Mens Club (motto ‘its ok to be dull if my memory serves me). He was a former postie whos ambition in life was to photograph all of the UKs 115,000 post boxes.
I implore everyone to familiarise yourselves with Moshiris past comments about his role at Everton and his views on us fans. He basically originally thought leading Everton wouldnt take up too much of his time, subsequently realised it would, thinks us fans are uniquely very demanding and by implication part of the problem (which is why he has to spend much more time bothering with us and why he said he appointed Ancelotti as he wanted a manager who could deal with our unique fans and their expectations).
Moshiri is on record as stating hes assembled a team of proven internationals and so he appears to believe the problems with the team arent with his player recruitment decisions, but with our past managers (which he appointed, but lets not worry about that detail) not being capable of dealing with the expectations of us fans. In other words Moshiri blames us.
Moshiri is a football fool as far as Im concerned. Now hes rubbing our noses in it.
96 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:22:50
"Nuno took over as Everton boss in June 2021, much to the dismay of many Evertonians, the move was likened to Sam Allardyce's appointment which also went down like a lead balloon."
Well, I'm not one of those Evertonians. I have no problem at all with Nuno's appointment.
Wolves played three seasons of good, sharp, impressive football before this season's train wreck -- one winning the Championship and then two 7th-place finishes in the Prem, the club's best stretch in 40 years. They generally played spirited, organized football on the pitch, and off it showed the ability to recognize, bring in and develop players who had failed elsewhere, like Raul. They sucked this season and Nuno's work stunk, but I was still surprised when they sacked him. And I think he was the best manager currently available.
Notice I emphasize those two words. The idea that Rangnick wanted to return to the touchline was pure speculation. It was likewise speculation that Gallardo might be interesting and interested, that Galtier would leave France for a mid-table English club, that Potter had any interest in leaving Brighton (or that we were interested in him). Martinez and Moyes were never coming back. And Benitez? Howe? The utterly failed Silva? No thanks.
Am I thrilled about Nuno? Nah. But this club needed to get to work RIGHT NOW on summer transfers, and Moshiri was never going to wait weeks or months for a longshot to come in. I'm OK with this.
Greg #93, I didn't see your post before I put up mine, but it looks like we said many of the same things.
97 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:27:34
98 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:27:52
99 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:31:50
It has been weeks right or is that just my lack of sleep and constant thinking too much about this??
But, if it happens, then so be it and I'll get behind him. I said early on in the rumour cycle, this one could make sense due to our South American contingent. No substance in that, just a thought.
Me getting behind him is irrelevant however. Most importantly, Moshiri and Brands need to and get better players. We need better players.
100 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:32:17
101 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:37:28
102 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:39:00
Wolvess performances last season were really poor and the fact that his main option was Crystal Palace is telling. Basically, this appointment will land like a sack of sh*t with supporters. But of course, once we hire him we have to back him 100%.
103 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:46:38
Total management level restructure.
Rangnick in as manager.
Brands takes on a more prominent board level role. Basically runs the show for Moshiri.
Rangnick manages up, working with Brands on transfers and rebuilding the academy. He's renowned as a builder.
He also manages down, mentoring a young up and coming coach like Terzic from Dortmund.
I wish we'd have thought big on this and done something different to really shake things up.
104 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:53:56
Lets face it we are a boring and unimaginative club with no real ambition other than to stay firmly in the league. I expect we'll see finishes somewhere between 9th-12th over the next couple of seasons.
I'd like the club to do one thing. Just bin our motto. NSNO was dead long long ago. Please just bin it and re brand it to something different
105 Posted 12/06/2021 at 06:57:03
106 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:00:51
He appeared to lose the dressing room with Wolves last season, so there appears to be a flaw in his character. Hence, Wolves position in the leagu last season.
Have Moshiri, Brands and Co. not learned our lessons with past manager appointments. We need a strong character, not another wet blanket.
Cant believe Im saying this, but Allardyce is looking better than some of our candidates. Either that or give it Dunc.
107 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:01:57
108 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:02:23
Moshiri could appoint Guardiola or Conte and they couldnt even make a difference. The new manager coming in (and its looking like Nuno) needs to sell or release every single player in the
squad bar Godfrey and we all know thats not going to happen. The whole football club has been coasting for at least the last thirty years and needs professionally overhauling from the inside out.
109 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:03:07
110 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:04:29
Gallardo may well be looking for an opportunity in Europe. But France, where he played. Or Spain, where he'd speak the language. A guy who reportedly turned down Barca to stay in a dream situation at River isn't going to leave for mid-table England. Again, you're dreaming there.
Now, Galtier seemed like a reasonable shot. Reportedly we approached him. But he already chose Nice. Stayed safely in France where he's been comfortable and successful for 12 years. So he wasn't available after all.
And you have no idea whether Palace was Nuno's "main option"... we know they took a strong run at him, but we have no idea who else he might have heard from, or what other choices he may have had.
111 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:06:43
112 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:11:31
113 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:11:48
I never read a word anywhere that indicated he was interested in this job.
114 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:15:02
115 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:15:40
Not a good time in history to be an Everton supporter and, after 52 years, it's getting really hard.
116 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:25:00
Well as someone who is something of a master of it yourself, you're possibly in a better position to call it.
117 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:30:26
From my perspective I dont know if he is good enough but all those commenting on boring football should remember the football our former esteemed Marquis manager had us playing. Just look at our goal difference. I for one am not sorry Ancelotti is gone as I did not see him making progress. All I want is our new manager build a team of young hungry players who give their all for the club. All this clamour for out of work managers mystifies me as I believe that they would feign the same committment as Carlo and be gone as soon as the going got tough.
Of all the options realistically available I would prefer Rangnik who is a team builder, Potter was another option who builds teams but looks like he is loyal to Brighton or in both cases see the job on hand and see a poison chalice.
I remember some years back admiring how he had Wolves playing and wishing we had someone like that.. All I can say at the moment if it is true, is I wish you the best of luck, you will need it judging by the support you are getting here on TW and possibly at a full Goodison. Go on prove them wrong and make them eat their words. NSNO
118 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:34:31
I would have been happy with Benitez.
119 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:34:42
I agree. It's not just the player it's the whole back setup, built up over 20 years. Just been reinforced by Brands three promotions, making him well and truly part of the Everton Establishment and probably the next Chairman in waiting. Promoted on such achievement as a Lower value squad, little youth development, helped reinforce the backroom management structure, midtable finish, and suggestions on a new mid table manager. It will be interesting to see how Nuno's backroom. team are fitted in and how long it will take to announce their roles.
It's started before he us actually appointed.
120 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:40:23
My main concern, however, is with the people running the club ie Moshiri, Bill and the Dame. They strike me as the most incompetent bunch of fools in football. I thought the two yank cowboys across the park, and the WHU porn kings were bad but this lot take the cake!!
Once the stadium is built I hope they sell up and leave town.
121 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:40:25
I personally am underwhelmed but after whats just happened with Ancellotti I have decided I cant get that invested in whoever we appoint. After all lets be honest, whoever gets the job will probably do one should a ‘bigger club flutter their eyelashes anyway.
Steve Ferns - for me you have always been on of the more knowledgeable TW types however, I am glad to see that you have had a couple of replies to your post already. No more words needed on this subject.
Finally from me and most importantly, I hope Nuno Holy Spirit shaves his beard off. He looks like a proper scruff with it I reckon.
122 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:49:56
Sorry Brendan on reflection out of hand.
123 Posted 12/06/2021 at 07:53:25
124 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:03:52
However, I wish Mr Santos all the best of luck, as he's gonna need it! Just a side note, I did a site visit last night to look at work, and the customers are both Wolves season ticket holders and with out prompting they said it's a big loss for Wolves and spoke of him in glowing terms. They also described him as a bit of a disciplinarian who expects the correct behaviour, demeanour and lifestyle from players or they are dumped pronto.
125 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:08:31
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, if we had lost Richarlison and DCL last summer then we wouldn't have finished 10th. Wolves lost Jota and Jiminez which would be their equivalent.
Jury is out on all concerned but proof will definitely be in the pudding. A couple of exciting signings and we will all be revved up again come August.
126 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:12:48
127 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:15:01
Doesn't inspire me but then we don't want another Ancelotti who just took the piss. We just need a competent manager with a safe pair of hands to keep us up. Let's give Nuno a chance. We're going nowhere till we build a squad.
128 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:15:31
I would also agree that this is a really uninspiring choice and wouldn't be high on my preferred candidate list as personally I was hoping for a Pochettino, Ragnick, Martinez or even a Potter appointment all for different reasons.
There are three so called 'Givens' permeating through this thread which I don't agree with;
1-Nuno is the safe pair of hands appointment. For me Nuno's excellent achievements at Wolves are wholly dependent on that relationship with that Portuguese dynamic at Wolves which essentially 'cornered the market'. Surely Wolves will still get a slice of the pie and I'm not sure that the success they had will be readily transferable.
2-This idea that Wolves have had a 'disastrous' or 'train wreck' of a season displaying a 'lack of final third intensity' shows a real lack of football intelligence in my opinion. Nuno had to deal with losing the goals of Jota and the unexpected loss of Jimenez without a replacement. Silva is a raw talent bought for the future who isn't ready now but had to be thrown in. I think Nuno did magnificently to cope and never looked at any stage to be dragged into a relegation dogfight as they don't have many goals in their armoury so he took a more pragmatic approach. Imagine where we would have been if Clowncelotti had lost Dominic and Ricky this season with all those tight games we came out on the right side of? It doesn't bear thinking about.
3-Nuno doesn't favour youth. I had a look at the list of players brought to Wolves and the majority were under 24 especially those with significant transfer fees. Of the more established players all have been really astute business. Indeed his transfer activity really is excellent and very few look like being poor acquisitions. Personally I feel this manager will be the best for our young players since the Moyes/Martinez eras as the last four regimes have chosen to neglect. He didn't hesitate in throwing the young England player Gibbs White at 17 so I believe the likes of Gordon and Nkonkou will get more of a chance.
Sorry Dan just seen you posted similar
129 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:17:19
130 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:19:13
131 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:22:12
As Carlo proved, you win nothing without great attacking players, and Nuno proved at Wolves last season when he lost his best two attacking players. Tactics have to go ultra defensive as the opposition know you have no bite and your team become less adventurous to make up for lack of match winners so that you don't lose (see Brighton for reference on constant attacking and chances created and yet low number of games won.)
Let's see what Brands can do to improve the squad this summer to start with. I do hope it's at least a miniumum of a couple of exciting buys coming our way so we're building a squad on top of the Godfrey aquisition recently.
132 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:24:22
Yep, we did.
Did you happen to watch them for the three seasons before that?
Better and more exciting than us in all three of those seasons.
And even with last season's miserable performance, Nuno's winning percentage in four years at Wolves is 47.74.
That's a fraction better than Carlo. Way better than Marco, Sam or Ronald. Better, in fact, than any full-time Everton manager since Howard Kendall's first departure in 1987. And, by the way, he's Wolves' best manager in at least 50 years.
Let's not write him off just yet.
133 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:25:09
I admit to being more than a little afraid that with our squad, Nuno will produce very similar tactics to Carlo and those who came before Carlo, and if he does, then we're likely in for another 18 months of angst and frustration. However, none of us can predict the future, if we could, we wouldn't be on here, we'd be living in luxury and possibly in a position to own a football club.
Everton sometimes feels like the gift that keeps on taking, it's about time it gave us long-suffering fans something back, we can only hope that the Portuguese manager is the one to set us on the path to glory.
134 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:26:08
I guess I was talking about a change of management structure and model if you take the names out of it.
I wouldn't see Rangnick as overseeing daily management of the team, that would be the head coach. He (Rangnick or whoever) would work with Brands, who would effectively be running the club on behalf of the owner. But also overseeing the coach and stepping in where necessary. Manage up and manage down.
Like I say, just a thought to overhaul the management structure of the club. I know it won't happen. We will carry on being Everton.
Maybe this is in place already and Brands will be the "Rangnick" providing he is empowered to do his job. Brands is my Rangnick, Nuno is my Terzic??
135 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:28:00
Your last comments are the most encouraging in this whole thread. Just what we needed.
Secondly all those clammering for high profile journeyman managers, have we learned anything from Carlo appointment. Carlo saw the task ahead and didnt have the stomach for the fight. I suspect many others feel the same.
I hope Nuno is that fighter, who will take on the challenge of whipping this team back into shape and restore some pride which is long time gone.(see comments in this thread)
136 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:28:07
In case you hadn't noticed that's where we've been for decades.
Quite happy if it's Nooningtons he has successfully done what few others have and turned an ailing giant around. Fingers crossed he can do the same here
137 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:32:35
The football cant get any worse than it was under Carlo, the second half of last season was utterly woeful on the eye and maybe with Nunos love of flying wingers, well certainly be a lot more easy on the eye.
138 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:34:05
I actually think Everton are floating Espiritu Santo's name to see what the fan reaction will be. Uninspiring and disappointing is the common consensus, but we have to back him if he is appointed.
Kunal @ 104, I think the club has huge ambition. Sadly, it lacks the competency and discipline to deliver on its strategy.
139 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:36:47
140 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:37:08
141 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:37:57
Well Pat, he was a Goalkeeper, so he should have a safe pair of hands. :-)
142 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:42:46
Fucking hell. Some people need to give their heads a wobble. The man has spent a fortune on us and employed people to spend his money wisely. Hes finally gonna build our stadium and people want him out? While hes here, well always be able to compete for players. Yeah, money has been wasted but he doesnt pick the players. He just pays for them.
Without him, were Burnley! Make no mistake.
143 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:43:01
144 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:49:39
Rejected by others clubs, if the links were true, finds a home here. How, why?
No, nuno, just no.
145 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:50:33
1.1 Top Cat
1.2 Benny the Ball
146 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:50:47
We are a mid table side, with an empty trophy cabinet and no CL exposure. EFC are not attractive to the best unless millions is offered (with get out clauses)
Not sure what people expect or want. Personally I'd have liked Rafa or Lampard before Nuno but there would have been even more negativity amongst the fanbase.
147 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:51:13
148 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:53:13
An old Evertonian who went back to Dixie's time once said - "none so fickle as Evertonians" - he was bang on.
People with with trite phrases like "I'll give him my support mind" after calling him all kinds can fuck right off. Shameful.
149 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:53:34
Steve #138, Galtier has managed over 500 games in France and is reportedly staying there, so yeah, he does appear to lack ambition to leave Ligue 1. As for Conte, after a decade as one of the world's highest-paid managers, he sure as hell doesn't need a second-tier job like ours. Just stay home, relax and wait for the phone to ring. I'll bet the rent that some slumping CL club will be in for him by Christmas.
150 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:54:12
What made them 'good' is the pacey wingers and forwards.
Forger nuno, get Neto and another top forward and bring in a more attack minded manager.
151 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:54:16
152 Posted 12/06/2021 at 08:58:23
153 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:04:37
With such a mediocre squad we aren't set up for instant success so as Brendan #60 notes it needs time for Nuno to create an identity for us. I don't mind patient possession football as an identity as long as we upgrade the attack and flanks. It may even suit some of our players better.
But we must upgrade the attack and flanks big time. Hopefully that's about to start.
154 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:07:53
We wont get that iconic blowing on the coffee with this guy. On another thread I gave one poster some stick about us being a mid table team and his constant moaning. Well after this appointment mid table will be a relief.
155 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:10:12
Promoted, 7th, 7th, last 8 of Europa League beats our recent record.
Knows the League and our players (and he's still interested?)
Did lots of genuine community work at Wolves.
He's available and the job is a step-up for him.
I don't know much about the managers many world football experts touted on here. I suspect if any of them had brains, they'd have took one look at our last few years and either immediately walked away or drove too hard a bargain to cover their back. The sharp ones will wait for a 'better' opportunity.
Wolves looked like an improving team to me, until last season, when they sold Jota and lost Jimenez to injury. Imagine if we'd sold Richarlison then lost DCL for most of the season? Big question for me is whether that was the only reason things went pear-shaped there.
None of the names excited me, so if this is true, I'm shrugging my shoulders. Welcome him and handsome is as handsome does is my policy.
156 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:10:42
Conor @ 128: 'where does that leave Brands?' - trousering a rather large wedge, in an 'OK TC' manner.
I'll get me coat.
157 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:17:03
Basically bought the championship, busting fair play to get promoted. £25m Neves, whilst the rest had nothing.
A decent first season when clubs underestimated them - see Ipswich and Sheffield United. Then back to reality with a turgid second season and they wanted him out.
Can't wait for pedestrain & rigid 3-5-2, Conor Coady, and Gomes given another chance plodding in midfield. Piss poor appointment.
158 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:17:41
159 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:27:12
He's not Carlo. He's not Benitez and he is not TGT.
Reasons to be cheerful 1-2-3
160 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:29:20
But he still finished below Newcastle with a team featuring Neves, Neto, Semedo, Coady, Patricio, Ait-Nouri, Traore etc. thats a lot of talent. To finish below a terrible Newcastle team was very poor.
Once appointed Ill back him but not who/what I wanted.
161 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:29:39
162 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:35:35
163 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:36:01
Our major shareholder seems to be a control freak with no clue what he's doing,. A horrible combination and I have no idea why Marcel Brands doesn't walk away and leave them to it.
164 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:40:15
165 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:41:20
166 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:49:11
That having been said I do recall 3 years or so back, when we were once again in the hunt for a new manager (I forget which point we were actually at), saying we should take a look at the Wolves fella (couldn't even work out his name at the time) who seemed to be pulling up trees in the championship, which of course he went on to win before arriving in the prem where he has done a pretty fair job in fairness.
As people are saying, notwithstanding the anomolous season we have just witnessed, he was beset with injuries and illness, and somewhat like us had to make do and mend with a pretty shallow squad.
We have seen that it is possible to get a tune out of our squad but for whatever reason, the times when we do actually click are all too rare. It seems any manager is partially hamstrung from the start with the players we have.
I came across this article from a few years back (when he was at Valencia) which is a long read but gives us maybe a little more insight into the workings of the man, and watch out for one or two interesting and familiar names in the article!
I harbour a sneaky and optimistic feeling that we may prove to be pleasantly surprised.
167 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:50:14
He'll need a good start that's for sure.
168 Posted 12/06/2021 at 09:50:26
Utter fucking madness...here we go again folks.
169 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:01:23
170 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:07:21
If he gets the players fit and motivated it will be a good start and hopefully he will realise quickly that we have far too many slow players who apparently cant pass the ball to their own man.
Not glamorous ( apart from the exotic name), not exciting but I suspect a safe pair of hands who might just surprise us.
Give him a chance Id say!
171 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:20:27
172 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:22:36
173 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:25:36
174 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:27:02
Moyes or Benitez had turned up so Nuno is a relief
but underwhelming. As it is now clear that Moshiri
would have gone for Moyes lets just hope he
strikes lucky this time. I will certainly welcome Nuno
and give him some time. Well three months or so.
175 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:28:44
So he has until mid-September then? :)
176 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:33:54
177 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:36:58
Looking forward to signing every Tom, Dick & Harry from Portugal over the next 18 months before we slide down the table to around 10th position and he gets fired.
178 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:38:56
I think youll find that Colin was joking …
179 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:41:29
Moyes signs new contract = media think Nuno is a done deal as its the one manager we have definitely had contact with. The sports news media know zero about Evertons movements, just look back at all the managerial names/ player transfers weve been linked to, its lazy journalism at best.
If its Nuno give him a chance ffs, all the bed-wetters already saying hes shit/ disastrous etc will no doubt preach they were proved right when hes sacked (just like 99.9% of every football manager in the world) - wow, what incredible insight.
If Ancelotti was right and Ive no reason to doubt him as Ive witnessed it with my own eyes, Everton are better without the ball. Nuno got Wolves beating the best sides in the league without the ball and had them running until the 95th minute combined with quick, incisive, joined-up counter attacking. Surely at least having our players trying all the way through the game and not tiring in injury time is a possibly enormous uplift to the languid, spiritless shite weve seen for a few years?
Good luck to whoever gets the job they will need it with our squad
180 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:42:19
Now you've got me fretting. I can see Jim White being appointed as the new manager now.
I'm taking the dogs out again.
181 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:42:21
With the existing the squad if you want to proven right more than wrong on ToffeeWeb Id say oppose the appointment.
Hoping he can pluck some young, energy filled players who can hack the demands of the premier league.
I wants overly impressed by most of the names touted for the role, would have liked the Lille guy but we would only have been a stepping stone.
Going in to a season with low expectations least gives the chance for pleasant surprise.
182 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:42:39
183 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:45:19
I would prefer Rangnick or Galtier but if it is to be Nuno all I can say is like Allardyce I hope he does well and makes himself a hero. But with the lack of nous in Moshiri's picks so far, it is very worrying our Saviour could kill us with steak when sometimes a jam butty is what we need.
184 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:45:24
I like many were delighted when Moshiri became our owner, I thought at last we will be back to the Catterick and Kendal days of being able to compete at the top end of the league. But 5 years on this club under his stewardship has gone backwards. Apart from Ancelotti all of his managerial appointments were nearly all gambles as most had won nothing of note before arriving here. So now we appoint a man who finished below us last season, and if he was that good why did Wolves sack him forget this mutual consent crap, and interestingly why was only Palace the only club interested in him.
I also wonder with him bringing such a big entourage with him I guess this will see Fergusons involvement in first team coaching greatly curtailed, some might even see that as a plus. But I just wonder if the appointment of Brands to some new posts in the club only last week, could we also see his role being diminished.
I know Everton arent the powerful club they were when I started watching us, but I think this appointment shows just how far we have fallen, and I just wonder if this is Moshiri /Usmanov realising they cant turn this ship around so maybe their funding will go solely into the new stadium so they can at least recoup some of their losses when they build the stadium and sell the club. And for those peddaling the line well who could we have got well at present the managers of the Italian and French Champions are both out of work nil satis my arse.
185 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:50:00
Wolves lost 24 goals from last season and 22 goals from the season before from between Jota and Jimenez. They haven't one player in their squad who has more than five Pl goals in a season. They also lost Docherty who also chipped in with a few.
In the previous two campaigns they averaged 49 goals whereas this was unsurprisingly only 36. I doubt anyone managing that squad this season would have done much better as there was a clear problem was to who was going to score the goals. They also a lot of new players to bed into the Premier League.
186 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:55:22
187 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:56:22
188 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:56:35
189 Posted 12/06/2021 at 10:57:57
He got Wolves promoted and had them playing good football. Last season was tough on most clubs. He had a lot of injuries and selling Jota to the reds was a setback.
I don't see the point in going for another Carlo as the same thing could happen again and he would be away to a CL club first chance he got. We need experience and a level head who understands what is expected of him.
We finally unloaded some deadwood this summer and made some room on the salary budget. He should continue that process. Hopefully he can get more out of the likes of Richarlison and James and maybe bring in a decent right back and another forward.
190 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:04:38
NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM - but surely a true Evertonian would have been more self aware, because Bill Kenwrights best, has never been good enough for Everton, and still the man remains.
191 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:09:26
192 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:11:50
“I like a challenge. Well bring commitment, try to make players better. I hope I can help build a new future… I really want to build something.”
Nuno Espirito Santo, June 1, 2017. He was true to his word.
Like pretty much every new Wolves manager, he said hed be inspired by the clubs 1950s heyday and attempt to get the club back to where it belonged. But this time they werent platitudes.
Nuno turned down Champions League clubs to move to the Championship, buying into Fosuns vision but, crucially, and as opposed to the chaotic disorder of 2016-17 (which should always be remembered in the context of Nunos early achievements), partnered with his old friend Jorge Mendes.
What followed was the most invigorating, inspiring and exhilarating three years the club had experienced for decades. Nuno had a dream, to build a football team.
Its hard to imagine now but at the beginning there were self-doubts.
Nuno was concerned that fans may not take to his style of football. In Wolverhampton, theyre bred on direct, fast football and wingers sending over cross after cross, usually for Stevie Bull to get on the end of. Nuno wanted a slower, methodical approach with a foundation built on rigid organisation and trying to control games without the ball as much as with it.
He was also acutely aware of the need to get fans onside. A Molineux thats with you can add 10 points to your season. If theyre against you, players go hiding.
Nuno may not come across as the shy, retiring type but he was no fan of the spotlight. At Porto, he used to hate switching on the TV at home and seeing his face plastered over the screen.
He was informed that his two predecessors, Walter Zenga and Paul Lambert, achieved similar results but contrasting levels of popularity. Zenga, for all his faults as a manager, was endeared for his at-times hysterical touchline melodrama and tub-thumping post-match demeanour on the pitch (even getting down on his knees to worship them after a win at Birmingham). He played to the crowd. Nuno was advised that a simple gesture of applauding the fans after a match went a long way, something hed never done at Porto where he was perceived to be cold and emotionless. After a notable pre-season victory over Leicester City, he took to the Molineux turf and reciprocated their affection. A bond began.
With so much money spent, there was pressure to hit the ground running but for Nuno, after the intense scrutiny he was under at Valencia from media and fans, where his remit was fourth or nothing, this was nothing. He knew that if his players bought into his idea, theyd have a good chance of promotion. For some pre-match press conferences in those early days, there were only two reporters present (myself at the Express & Star and Radio WMs Mike Taylor).
After a short while, it almost seemed beneath him. The opening few weeks when Wolves started to take the league by storm meant Nuno knew he was destined for greatness and was building something special, even stating as much. To him, it was just a matter of time before everyone caught on. It didnt take long.
Previous boss Lambert had said there was no winning mentality at the club. Nuno sought to address that immediately, generating a fearless attitude among his players by providing them with short, basic, simple messages, or “their tasks” as he put it. “Do what I tell you and youll win” was his mantra. He didnt overload them with long speeches and complicated tactical instructions. Instead Nuno, a man at his best on the training ground, showed them how to play during an intense pre-season training schedule. His “idea” was imprinted in the players minds during 10 days in the Austrian hills.
“Its not all about talent and quality,” he once said. “What supports everything is the way that you have a clean sheet, the way you support each other and react to loss of possession, the way you keep your shape and run back. This is football.”
Nuno, who was taken aback by seeing hundreds of Wolves fans travel to Austria to watch them play, began to work incessantly on the teams shape. Theyd work on their shape, then work on their shape again, then think about what to do and decide to work some more on their shape.
There were two or three sessions every day but they werent fitness-based.
“He was relentless in the details,” midfielder Dave Edwards told The Athletic last year. “He would speak as we were playing. If something went wrong in the build-up or the shape, he would stop us, then wed repeat the move again and again. It was often moving a player a yard here or there, to be in exactly the right position. He drilled it in every single day.”
Nuno also started to generate a strong fellowship between his players and core backroom staff. Outsiders, such as staff who were already at the club, or even the clubs own media team, werent included. Unusually for a new manager, he did no interviews with either the club or the local press in those early weeks. It was part of creating a siege mentality — us against the world, no outsiders allowed.
(Photo: Bryn Lennon/Getty Images)
“Nuno makes the player think theyre all that matters, regardless of any noise from outside,” Edwards added.
“He has that perfect blend between respect and fear,” Edwards says. “You dont want to get on the wrong side of him but you want to play for him, too. He united everyone.”
Either players were on board, or they were out the door. Back at Compton he wrote in big capital letters “NUNOS WAY, NOT YOUR WAY” aimed specifically at one who wasnt adhering to his instructions. There was no room for manoeuvre. It was his way, his philosophy, his idea. And at the heart of it was attention to detail and world-class expertise from his backroom team, who introduced new methods in injury prevention, rehabilitation, fitness and psychology.
Intrigued by this new style of play and a mythical, beard-stroking manager, fans immediately signed up to the Nunolution. Molineuxs biggest opening-day attendance since 1980 saw them beat promotion favourites Middlesbrough 1-0.
By October it was clear something special was happening. Wolves were top of the table and playing stylish football not witnessed in this part of the world for years. They reached the fourth round of the EFL Cup for the first time in 22 years, knocking out Premier League Southampton and then pushing Manchester City all the way to penalties at the Etihad.
“The best thing I can say about Nuno is, from a coaching perspective, coaches, managers, etc, they tend to say, ‘I need more time to build a philosophy. I need more time to build my team and the way it looks,” Kevin Thelwell told The Athletic last year. “Sometimes, that can be nine or 12 months. Nuno was able to build that in five weeks in pre-season. It was incredible.
“We were very lucky. We had a group of players who bought into the new philosophy but in five weeks of him being at the club, it looked like wed been playing 3-4-3 for about 10 years.”
Players knew the system like the back of their hand. And if someone came into the XI he generally did so without disrupting the flow of the team. Everyone knew where to be on the pitch and what tasks they had to complete. It was the same at half-time: basic, uncomplicated instructions, small tweaks. They often performed better in the second half than the first as a result. Players exuded confidence and self-belief.
Whether it was converting Conor Coady into a ball-playing centre half, transforming Matt Doherty into one of the best attacking wing-backs in the country, or assembling a host of new players (yes, they were expensive and belonged at a higher level, but the “money equals success” argument wont wash with any Wolves fan who witnessed Sir Jack Hayward chuck millions at top-level players and managers in the 1990s and continuously fail to win promotion) into a cohesive, winning unit, almost instantly, Nuno could do no wrong.
Some of the goals that season came with an NSFW warning. Ruben Neves did things with the football that would be banned in 47 American states. Coady to Neves, back to Coady, out to Doherty or Barry Douglas, draw the opponents in, then unleash the red arrows down the flanks, one-twos, combinations, work the ball into the box, play between the lines, isolate defenders….and pounce. Goal. Game over. No one came from behind to beat them. Few teams could live with them. Watch the team goal finished by Diogo Jota against Sheffield United. They were like nothing the league had seen before.
With the additions of Joao Moutinho, Jonny Castro Otto and Raul Jimenez, they got even better in the Premier League, playing the same way every week (opposition teams and managers often remarked how damn difficult they were to play against… they were particularly devastating on the counter-attack), beating Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs, finishing seventh and reaching an FA Cup semi-final, before embarking on a European jaunt, the clubs first for 40 years, that will never be forgotten.
The feelgood factor of those first two-and-a-half seasons was extraordinary.
In the stands they adored him. My goodness, it was something to be watch, to hear, to feel. This correspondent has been watching Wolves since 1991 and theres been nothing in three decades that came close to the universal devotion they gave him. Men, women, young, old, they didnt just admire and love him, they trusted him. Unequivocally.
Even after defeats he would ease their jitters with his carefully-chosen simple words. “We will bounce back, we will improve.” And they always did.
His frenzied passion in victory only endeared him to them further. Bristol City away in the Championship season, sent to the stands for arguing with the referee, he celebrated with a lions roar cry, blissfully ignoring local club legend Alan Dicks plea to “kindly move, old boy”.
Pissing off Tony Pulis and Neil Warnock after successive logic-defying victories on their way to the title (with nine men at Boro and then surviving two injury-time penalties to win 1-0 in Wales) only lifted his status to that of a demigod. Warnock told him to fuck off six times after Nuno stormed the pitch to celebrate the second penalty miss instead of stopping first to shake his opposing managers hand. Supporters lapped it up.
(Photo: Tim Goode/PA Images via Getty Images)
That was Nuno, he didnt care much for authority. Referees felt his wrath (Lee Mason may wish to reconsider his retirement now he knows Nuno is leaving), he wasnt one for rules or authority. His discarded cigarette once caused the evacuation of Compton Park. On transfer deadline day, no less.
It was the beard, the grin, the passion, the philosophical statements, the upsetting the English football status quo, everyone else moaning about Nunos behaviour, or Mendes influence — in the stands they couldnt get enough. No victory was complete without him taking to the field and leading a chorus of cheers.
Away from the game, he remained intensely private, travelling home to Portugal to see his family whenever he could. When he was in Wolverhampton he didnt do much away from Compton Park, just playing a lot of golf and spending time with his trusted backroom lieutenants. Occasionally he could be spotted in The Crown pub in nearby Wergs, sometimes on his own, collecting his thoughts and getting away from the intense days of training where hed channel all his energy.
His wife and family were at Wembley to watch Wolves beat Spurs. At full-time, he giddily waved to them. When asked in his post-match press conference who he was waving to, he wouldnt answer.
He was a different man when around them in the corridors of Molineux after matches. That beaming grin never left his face. Nothing could divert his attention.
He could be moody too, to put it mildly. If you werent in that inner circle, he could be terse, direct, grumpy and aggressive.
In training he shouted at his players if they put their hands on their hips while listening to his instructions, seeing it as a sign of them not being alert.
“When Im upset I can be the worst guy in the world,” he once said. “I dont speak to you one day because I have everything in my mind. Next day Im hugging people. Its natural, we have good and bad moments.”
Hed been burned by the Spanish press and had little or no interest in generating relationships with journalists, certainly in those opening two or three years. Press conferences would be notoriously terse, hed snap at reporters or bite heads off in reply to reasonable questions, for no discernible reason. Journalists quickly learned which subjects he would never entertain (the league table, prospective transfers), but sometimes hed generate a dark atmosphere simply in the manner he sat down. Hed occasionally apologise, he knew he was being difficult, but he didnt care. You always got the impression he felt he didnt need the press. His team were winning, so what was there to be gained by currying favour. He played the game by not playing the game, never giving anything which might motivate the opposition.
In his fourth year he mellowed and began to open up. The pandemic seemed to change him. There was sorrow (he missed seeing his family) behind those eyes at times and the devastation and disruption the pandemic had caused weighed heavily on his shoulders. It also robbed him of the control, organisation and detailed preparation that Wolves success had been built on. He often didnt know what team he could pick a day before a game (due to an increase in injuries, yes, but also awaiting COVID-19 test results). Not the Nuno way. At around Christmas time that glint in his eye was gone, his energy seemed sapped. A toll was taken on a sensitive man who takes things to heart. You wonder if that transmitted to the players.
Would he and they have got that back after a well-deserved break and come back for a 5th year with renewed vigour and purpose? Well never know.
But the fourth season, when Wolves took a step back and fans began to question him for the first time, doesnt damage his legacy.
In fact those first two and a half seasons remain frozen in time. When the pandemic began — and therefore the last time the vast majority of his adoring public saw him in person — Wolves were fifth in the Premier League and in the last-16 of the Europa League. His demigod status was undimmed. His team had never once been booed off during his tenure, his name had been sung every single week, they graffitied his name and face on the citys streets, his judgment wasnt questioned.
In the eyes of the majority of supporters, his legacy remains untarnished. Some compared Fridays news to a bereavement.
Appropriately his curtain call came at Molineux, back in front of fans, against Manchester United, the fixture which defined, more than any other of his 199 matches, what he did for this club. FA Cup quarter-final. March 16, 2019. Men openly sobbed that night and they did again on Sunday afternoon as they lined Waterloo Road to greet him for one last time, bellowing out his name, striking flares and creating clouds of gold.
There were only 4,500 at Molineux for his farewell but it felt like far more. They sang for him throughout, he waved at them, they told him they loved him. At full time he performed a lap of honour to resounding applause from every single one of them.
The players and staff, some of them in floods of tears, gave him a guard of honour as he left the pitch for the final time. The whole day was completely surreal. No manager leaves a club like this, it felt more akin to retirement.
Did he achieve everything he wanted to? “Definitely,” he tells The Athletic. “When you want to work with a group of players, first you have to create a really special bond among themselves; with you, with the club, with the fans, with the city. Then comes the sporting achievement. But more important is the love and respect we have for each other.
“I think you are one of the first journalists I met, I still remember the first interview in Compton, I think you didnt even know me. But we arrived and we came from a club that means a lot to us as professionals, from Porto. We arrived not knowing what we were going to find.
“We found a club that since day one has given us all the support. There was not one decision we didnt make together. Always dialogue, always respect and this will stay forever.
“(Wolverhampton) really means a lot. You dont find out that youre going to fall in love with something until you really feel it. You cannot expect it. But it will stay forever, with me, my family, the coaching staff. Wolverhampton is a place that I love.”
Happy to be leaving? Absolutely not. Content he achieved all he wanted to in four years? Absolutely.
Its not been the season he wanted to end on, or the manner in which he will have wanted to say goodbye, with a full house at Molineux, Raul Jimenez on the pitch, a victory, etc.
And yet still, amid all the problems and issues, he managed to present his greatest gift to the city; £250,000 of his own money to help impoverished families in Wolverhampton, donated in January.
Nunos money has meant hundreds of crisis families could put food on the table. Its provided tablet computers for homes that couldnt afford technology for children to learn during lockdown.
He came back from Portugal last summer after the first lockdown and said he wanted to do something for the city, feeling passionately that people who were suffering should be helped. Discussions were had as to the best way to channel his money and the notion of kids simply not having food on their tables resonated most of all, with food poverty a huge problem in Wolverhampton.
He kept in regular contact with staff from the Wolves Foundation who rolled out the Feed Our Pack campaign across the city (the Premier League matched Nunos donation and there has also been £80,000 come in from supporters and other donations, with money also going to help food banks, plus school holiday activities and education), who have updated him with details of its vital work for crisis families.
One member of the team called his contribution “unique and unprecedented”. A bit like his time at Wolves.
He just got it. He understood what this sleeping giant needed, he understood what success meant to the club, to the city. He left his home country to reside for four years in an impoverished, deprived, unfashionable, working-class area in a small corner of the West Midlands. And he fell in love.
He ends with the best win percentage of any manager in the clubs history (48 per cent) but it was about so much more than numbers. He changed the entire culture of a club, he put smiles on the faces and in the hearts of thousands and thousands of people. He made them proud. He made them dream. He made them believe. The story he created will be told to sons, to daughters, to grandchildren, to great-grandchildren.
“When I came here it was to build something and create an idea and a philosophy, to build an identity,” he once said. “Its more than a football pitch — its a club, its a city… it goes beyond prizes. Im proud of our work.”
The songs will turn to silence, the graffiti in Chapel Ash will fade, the T-shirts with his big, beaming face on them will be thrown out. But the memories will last forever.
193 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:15:00
A safe appointment
194 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:15:15
Lets give him a chance before righting him off as a failure.
195 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:25:12
And what does this mean for Brands?
I am a realist and didnt expect, or want, the likes of Conte or Simeone, but would have been horrified at the prospect of Benitez or a return of Martinez, but I harboured hopes we may see Duncan manage the team while Brands finds promising players: checks and balances to Duncans temperament and inexperience.
We seem to have this cozy collection of former players in the coaching ranks but decline to give them a chance of any meaningful input: why? Are they all incompetent? If this goes ahead I wish him well, of course, but I feel it is a weak move, another safe appointment, mere damage limitation rather than something positive and daring. The top managers are not attracted to Everton and those with rising stock would be foolish to risk a hard earned reputation at Goodison. Nuno is probably the best pick of a very mediocre bunch: Howe, Benitez, Moyes, a group where Potter is considered an exciting firebrand.
It looks like we will never know how Ferguson and Brands may have fared.
The single most glaring deficiency around here has been a complete absence of spirit, a casual acceptance by too many players for far too long, of defeat. That has been by far the hardest thing for me to take. I have seen very little from Nuno to suggest he will challenge this attitude.
Nuno may bring some quality in with him, Neto or Neves for example, which would be great, but this just seems so predictably Everton again, another disappointment.
For all those who wished for root and branch reforms at Finch Farm, be careful what you wish for.
196 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:29:25
The overwhelming majority of Carlo's supporters will give their support for the new guy. It wont be unconditional, but it will be solid support.
Unfortunately The dozen or so, finger in the ears, Happy clappers who have patrolled this site for the past 18 months will find it more difficult.
It wont take much for the self proclaimed positives to turn on the bearded one. Its amusing to see some already itching to do so.
We're about to find out how positive they REALLY are
197 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:34:40
198 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:36:58
199 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:44:10
I fear we will be in a relegation battle next season.
200 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:44:31
This place sucks the life out of me like one of them dementors in Harry Potter.
Be happy in your misery - I'm out of here.
201 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:45:55
At the moment it looks like the easier way out has been taken and lends strength to the rumour that Ancelotti's appointment happened only with Mr Usmanov's intervention.
Regardless, I would think that everyone on here wants whoever is appointed to be successful, and not in terms of his redundancy payment.
202 Posted 12/06/2021 at 11:51:53
Im one of the Underwhelmed but the article was a great read.
Well probably appoint Benitez now!
203 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:00:26
After going for the "Hollywood" manager (and look how that turned out) there's absolutely no way of knowing how ANY manager will do.
Ancelotti proved that past performance means nothing, so it doesn't really make sense to say that Santo will be worse because of this or that.
Managers come and go, but Everton remain, and it's Everton I'll be supporting and hope that Santo can get the team playing on the front foot and trying to entertain in the process.
There isn't a manager out there I'd say "Oh yes he's the one that will turn us around" because I honestly don't have the confidence in any of the candidates. Not because I don't rate them but simply because I haven't got a fucking clue how it will go no matter who's appointed. We could hire, potentially, the best manager in the world and it could still go to ratshit.
But if he's hired then it's "Welcome to Everton Santo, good luck, make us proud."
204 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:01:38
Plenty of negative vibes on this thread, ie Wolves where shite last season, HELLO? how did the Blue boys perform?
205 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:04:04
206 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:14:08
I think he was quite decent at Wolves so let's give him a fair shake.
207 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:22:27
I think the alleged stumbling block could well be over his already large entourage (Keep it Clean!) and be able to accommodate Duncan, Baines, Ebrell and Jeffers as well or who goes, and who stays.
We could do with Rob Halligan taking his dog for a walk again, to get the juicies on what's happening " Within Those Walls ".
208 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:23:38
It's a bit meh, a bit mediocre. Seems to be what we are these days. What Carlo said about our objectives can interpretted in different ways but it seems to me we're a club that doesn't believe in NSNO anymore but simply "top 6 top 7 will do".
It's Groundhog Day. Not really taking Everton forward just middle of the road, mid table. The word 'safe' used a lot. I hope to god it's not negative defensive football.
The appointment may be given some leeway because of the low level of available managers, although seems to be another panick appointment to me.
Whilst on the subject of eulogies, what about Carlo with all his glory, and his "A Quiet Leadership" ? It really did nothing for us, nothing.
209 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:26:39
Its actually really difficult for a club like Everton to be relegated at the moment. The days of "too good to go down ?" have for me, disappeared. There always seems to be 3 teams who are simply too bad to stay up. Then there is another three or four who will always oblige by forming a buffer.
You may be right about Nuno. I have already said I know little about him. I have been encouraged by the stuff I'm reading from people who do know him - especially Lyndon.
For me he represents possibilities. I see none of the forgone conclusions many saw when Carlo was appointed.
I have long since stopped EXPECTING trophies. I just want to see decent football. Good football always improves the chances of being successful.
If Nuno brings it I'll be happy. If he looks like he is trying to bring it, I will be patient. If he continues with this zombie footy lark. He'll be gone quicker than Carlo. Dont forget, the crowds will be back
This (providing he gets the gig) will be His big chance. Goodison has become like New York...If you can make it here you can make it any fucking where
210 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:27:50
Nothing against the man but I am an Evertonian with a valid concern for the future. I can't see us ever chasing anything but a Europa League run.
Surely you go for the best possible manager available? Conte may be off the scale but who after him? Galtier, a recent champion who has progressed teams for 10 years running.
18 months ago we were looking for "winning mentality" so what is the foresight here?
Strange appointment for me but at the same time I have always stressed what I think the real ambitions are. I just hoped one day the club would thrill me with surprise.
211 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:37:55
212 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:38:06
Thanks for that post. I am underwhelmed that it might be high ho Carlo hello Nuno. Id want a Galtier or Conti but agree with other posters who say thats dreaming on. So thanks for the hope and lets see.
213 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:39:54
Given everyone's valid claims about the second half of last season and Lyndon's excellent article, this feels like more of the same.
I fear we'll be back hear in 18 months time having ripped each other apart over something we all have the same passion for.
But, if it happens, if he gets the job, he gets my backing and gets my support.
214 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:41:42
215 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:46:56
I am not overwhelmed but will the guy a chance and hope it works out well.
216 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:52:32
217 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:52:39
218 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:54:05
Obviously no appointment will satisfy every supporter. Nuno seems to me to be the compromise candidate, the one attracting the lowest volume of strident opposition compared with Benitez, Moyes and others with Premier League experience. I thought overall he did a decent job at Wolves. Too many on here are judging him on his last six months after he lost a few key players through injury and transfers.
Also when I read that any manager will ‘play better football than his predecessor I think we should remind ourselves that he will very likely only do so with better players. In our case ‘better means ‘quicker and more creative. Whatever we may like to believe managers are not miracle workers. Most certainly they can add value but they cannot deliver sustainable success in the form of attacking football with positive results unless the playing talent is available.
219 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:57:49
WE NEED BETTER PLAYERS.
Off to the wine fridge already.
220 Posted 12/06/2021 at 12:58:21
Theres no limits!”
(With thanks to 2 Unlimited and the ready availability of ecstasy in the early 1990s)
221 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:03:28
222 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:03:40
223 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:07:46
Footy fans will ALWAYS disagree. Its only empty heads with the inability to think for themselves who agree all the time.
Know what I mean ?
224 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:09:21
He doesn't want another manager who only wants to use our club as a stepping stone so will have to take a chance on Nuno.
Does anyone know if we got any compensation from Madrid for Carlo?
If not, why not.
225 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:10:33
226 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:13:01
227 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:16:21
But at least you have now endorsed someone as manager. Let's see how your choice Espiritu Santo performs.
228 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:18:44
It's been put out in some reports one issue in negotiations with Everton have been about Jorge Mendes's influence given him and Nuno are very good mates and Nuno was Mendes's first ever client. I don't see that as a problem given most of the players he's found for Nuno have been a success and not cost the earth. The only worry would be if possible Brands signings who appear better (at least on paper) are completely ignored by Nuno. The signings made in his final such as the young kid, Fabio Silva and Nelson Semedo both Mendes players were pushed through when apparent better options were sourced by the club.
229 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:22:06
Nuno My choice ?...How desperate are you ?
230 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:22:34
231 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:25:43
232 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:27:38
233 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:28:01
234 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:28:13
235 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:31:04
236 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:34:25
As the inventor on TW of the term "happy clapper" surely even a miserable chap can see the funny side of the retort 😁
237 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:40:17
We can play worse, finish lower down the table, sell our best player's and not be able to replace them.
I knows there's a feeling of underachievement but it seemed there was a genuine plan that we were sticking too in slowly building a strong squad. His calming and encouraging influence was a big part of that stability and progress.
Findings the right players whilst improving the current members but unfortunately Real and Chelsea are two former clubs that he would have left us for. I think he did well for us in many aspects but faltered at the end to finish 10th.
In Nuno, unless his links with his agent prove useful I don't think he can attract a player that Carlo could.
This is one of a few reason's why we need a big name manager, to encourage players to join us.
I'm not anti-Nuno, I'm more anti-average.
Positives would be the language for Ric and Allan.
Playing a similarly style of football with a 5 or 4 at the back.
Balanced football, not too defensive but compact, encouraged to play when you can otherwise get it forward quickly.
I think winning the championship with the squad he had was expected but a good achievement.
Over achieved in the first premier league season but repeating that the following season was very good. Probably his best achievement whilst having a good European campaign.
Under achieved this season and made matters worse by changing the system and tactics and being too inflexible with it.
I want someone better, I've wanted Mancini every since he let Man City. With euros quickly followed by a world cup I dont think we could get him this season, but please try!
I mainly want stability and I don't think Nuno is good enough to offer that 5 year progressive improvements.
Glad its not my money.
238 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:44:55
Apart from one season Nuno has done pretty well. One benefit is that if he comes he will bring with him his backroom staff, and clear out the old boys' club, if reports are to be believed.
239 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:45:39
Generally, in retrospect the majority of genuine sensible thinking fans are proved right, but unfortunately those in power would never lower themselves, or indeed gauge what the fans feel or otherwise, and let that influence their decision to appoint either the right or wrong person for the job.
Having said all that, it often pays to look at the views of other fans, whether it be a player or a Manager that we are on the threshold of signing, and I feel we can learn a lot from their respected feelings and views. Having done that with Wolves, in this case, I have not come across any who have indicated " good riddance ", in fact quite the opposite.
Although they collectively admit last season was a disaster in terms of injuries and players being sold against the wishes of the Manager, which in turn was reflected on the pitch and in results. I have however come across a lot who are sad to see him go and wish him all the best. They are also worried that Pedro Neto, and a few others may follow him, I wouldn't complain there if they did.
240 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:46:41
It has been a well used term in football for years.
I thought it perfectly described a small group of people (about 10) who applauded, apologised and excused the Zombie football served up by a manager who they constantly claimed we were lucky to have. I Still do actually.
I fInd it very amusing that an Hilarious retort should come back quick as a flash from his razor sharp acolytes... eighteen months later...after he had gone
He's gone. he belongs to Everton history like Moyes and big Sam
Get over it
241 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:47:22
Moshiri is reportedly a friend of Mendes. That's fine so long as the friendship is not distorting his perspectives on choice of manager -- or leading him into a close tie-in when it comes to the acquisition of new players.
242 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:50:25
It is very rare for a new manager (Bruno Lage) to come in and say good things about the previous manager: "It's a good opportunity to understand what Nuno [Espirito Santo] did in these four years and my ambition is to continue and to improve what he did".
Also, if Steve Ferns (48) doesn't like the new manager "Im not paying to watch Nuno football. See you in a year when the arsehole is sacked." and Darren (159) says "I'm happy to give him a chance to show what he can do.", then surely we have a nailed-on winner! :-)
243 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:54:00
244 Posted 12/06/2021 at 13:58:09
245 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:00:04
246 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:03:24
It also says Brands has not had much of a sway Mosh has had his ear bent by Kia Koorwhatsisface. So if it is another "it's my ball so I'll have who I like" masterstroke how many more managers will there be before BMD is built.
Whoever gets picked I hope they have the success we crave, but Mosh's past dealings do not fill me with optimism.
247 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:06:18
Everton can attract whoever they wish with the right amount waved in front of them. Still paying for Walsh/Koeman which was always going to take the best part of 5 years to correct.
If Nuno signs on then expect to see more of Gordon and Nkounkou. He likes to use a small squad of players he trusts with a few younger ones. So Brands has the same job of trimming plus he has another agent on board.
248 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:07:29
249 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:18:26
250 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:20:17
You would not be a happy chappie if you crapped your nappy.
251 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:21:00
His football for the prior years to this was good, attacking stuff. This year however, when he lost vital players to injury, he had no plan B. So from that point of view, I find him one dimensional and a very mediocre appointment. I really hope he can prove me wrong.
252 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:28:14
- Renato Sanches of Lille
- Rafael Leao of AC Milan
- Goncalo Guedes of Valencia
- Trincao of Barcelona
All Portuguese, with the latter 2 looking a good fit for the sort of system Santo uses (two number 10 / winger types operating behind a lone forward). Guedes and Leao have already been linked quite a bit this summer already.
The big talent in Portugal right now is Pedro Goncalves who hit 23 goals in 32 games for title winning Sporting Lisbon last season. He had a very brief spell at Wolves as a teenager, presumably under Santo (haven't checked the dates). Might also be a target. He'd play in that number 10 / winger spot behind DCL along with Richarlison.
Obviously Neto would be ideal but he'd cost about £50m or more, I expect which might not leave us with much left for reinforcements.
253 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:30:52
We certainly cant judge a manager on how they did last season against us otherwise we would end up with Steve Bruce.
Nuno definitely likes to set his team up a certain way with good passing and movement so if he does come to us then theres most of our team gone.
254 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:34:27
255 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:36:32
If he is coming in, I reckon by now hell know for sure that expectations are a lot higher than at Wolves.
256 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:45:53
Actually the full quote is - 'Nobody knows anything. Not one person in the entire motion picture field knows for a certainty what's going to work. Every time out it's a guess and, if you're lucky, an educated one.'
Goldman (a writer and writer of screenplays) was talking about films but I believe there's enough evidence to suggest the same thinking can be applied to choosing a new manager.
Of all the words written on the subject of manager appointments (including Everton managers) nobody knows anything.
The best example of NKA this was Ranieri's move to Leicester.
His previous post was manager of the Greek national team and he was given the boot after his side had been beaten by..er..The Faroe Islands.
Think Leicester fans were happy to get him?
My memory is very definitely and absolutely definitely not, yet just 9 months later, he was God.
"Ah but like Goldman says you can make an educated guess."
True but what does that mean in 'modern' football?
Well we know the player's are on contracts that put them very much in charge - ie: if the team aren't happy, they get rid of the manager not the team (see Mourinho at Spurs, Moyes at Utd etc).
So if you can pick a manager the team like/respect, I'd imagine that would have to be a plus.
Other than that, I have no idea.
(and neither do you).
257 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:51:55
If Brands or Mendes or both can provide 2 or 3 new first teamers and some quality reinforcements for the bench then Santo will find certainly it easier to implement a Plan B.
258 Posted 12/06/2021 at 14:56:09
He has cut his teeth in the Premier league, has got management experience, with his back room staff coming in, we can wave goodbye to Duncan Ferguson, who will now like a lot wanted, will be able to gain experience, Managing a lower division team.
Me myself, I would have loved Duncan to have at least been given a chance, so a double kick in the knackers for me, I feel we have missed a big opportunity, not giving Dunc at least a chance.
Whoever comes in will get my support, but have a feeling we missed a trick, not giving Dunc a chance.
259 Posted 12/06/2021 at 15:12:09
If not, hell do for me👍
Im easily pleased.
260 Posted 12/06/2021 at 15:13:07
261 Posted 12/06/2021 at 15:20:54
262 Posted 12/06/2021 at 15:21:36
God bless Everton….
263 Posted 12/06/2021 at 15:23:15
Hey, if it's confirmed we back him and move forward. It's not the worse appointment and the reality is, despite what people like me say, we don't really know what was realistically available the the club.
264 Posted 12/06/2021 at 15:50:59
265 Posted 12/06/2021 at 15:57:25
266 Posted 12/06/2021 at 16:03:40
We'll have to do something nice for the manager for me to renew my season ticket now.
I have enough chores in general life.
267 Posted 12/06/2021 at 16:04:32
268 Posted 12/06/2021 at 16:16:39
269 Posted 12/06/2021 at 16:21:13
Nonetheless, guaranteed the doom and gloomers will be on by October with predictions of an impending relegation battle.
270 Posted 12/06/2021 at 16:23:34
271 Posted 12/06/2021 at 16:34:15
272 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:01:33
273 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:06:32
274 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:14:31
6 games will have been played by the time October is reached.
Fine example from yourself of the patience shown by some fans.
275 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:30:14
He didnt want Nuno to leave, and said he is very defensive minded, gives youth a chance, but doesnt have a plan B, often leaving substitutions late in the game.
He also plays his favourites even if they are off form.
Mike 270 our current squad couldnt pass a ball like Italy did last night, albeit against a poor Turkish side.
The Italian team have in general been together for 5 years.
I couldnt see Mancini having the slightest interest in Everton, even for a Kings ransom.
If Nuno is appointed we need to get behind him. I naively thought Carlo was a gentleman, and would see the ‘project through! I now know better.
As much as I love big Dunc, its probably time for him to move on, and maybe Rhino, who have both been ever present during the reign of our last 5 managers. A complete, rather than partial clear out.
276 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:38:04
277 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:38:41
I'm glad I didn't renew my season ticket.
278 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:39:21
It started this morning mate. “Relegation battle”
279 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:41:22
280 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:41:54
"I'm glad I didn't renew my season ticket."
Not half as glad as the people who sit close by you.
281 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:43:07
282 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:43:43
283 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:47:12
Come on Erikson lad.
284 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:50:22
285 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:52:28
286 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:52:36
287 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:52:37
288 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:53:35
289 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:54:52
290 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:55:37
A very well researched and balanced article.
However I am totally underwhelmed by this board and their direction.
This was an opportunity for bravery and unity and instead we get a compromised decision and a far from unified board.
The sooner the cancer that is the Machiavellian Bill Kenwright the sooner we can start to run the club properly.
The problem I see with this decision is that the appointee needs patience and a lot of supporters who do not rate this guy will not tolerate the difficult periods and together with Bill undrr we mining everything I just dont see it as a solution.
291 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:56:46
Come on Christian!
292 Posted 12/06/2021 at 17:57:58
293 Posted 12/06/2021 at 18:49:51
As for Nuno, all the best lad and good luck. This sounds to me like a compromise between billy bullshitter (Moyes/Martinez), Moshiri (Conte/Galtier) and Brands aka ostrich man. Why Kenwright still has any say in the running of the club leaves me dumbfounded. Does bk have dirt on Moshiri?
294 Posted 12/06/2021 at 18:50:54
That is a really positive development for the club. Hopefully we'll get an Evertonian to fill your seat.
295 Posted 12/06/2021 at 18:51:53
I think that UEFA is in charge of the images shown as all broadcasters seemed to have shown the pictures around the world, but there's no reason that the Beeb couldn't have cut back to the studio, rather than continuing to show the distressing images.
296 Posted 12/06/2021 at 18:53:25
297 Posted 12/06/2021 at 18:58:11
Our young fans who go to EVERY game, home and away despite not winning a trophy for 26 years.
Are they happy clappers?
A stupid term.
298 Posted 12/06/2021 at 18:58:24
Ian, what was it again that you do that the happy clappers don't do in accepting the rubbish we are served with? Answer? You do nothing other than whinge.
299 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:02:23
300 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:20:01
Interesting. I may well get involved here.
What is your strategy to hold the club "to account" Ian?
301 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:23:51
Heres to clapping happily 👏👏👏👏👏
302 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:24:20
303 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:25:56
304 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:27:58
Having a good manager counts, of course. I think Nuno has proven himself one. At the same time, if we don't make the player improvements needed, Nuno's managing won't ring out one more point next season than Carlo just did this one.
Maybe even fewer points. And it will not be his fault.
305 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:29:43
You are better than that lad. Why respond to Masonic stupidity.
He's a card carrying happy clapper who turns gangster every time he is proved wrong.
He's always proved wrong...Always
306 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:31:34
307 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:33:54
Dont hold your breath waiting for an answer from old Whinge Master General, hes not been programmed to do anything other than whinge.
308 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:34:45
309 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:36:28
Me, I wish Nuno every success and hope that he and Brands can bring in half a dozen more Godfreys by August. This squad has seen off a veritable parade of managers of varying qualities and ambitions. That's where the real problem lies. I'll give Nuno until November to turn things round and hope that firm action is taken from the outset against any of the wasters who've consistently failed to perform.
310 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:37:25
311 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:46:04
That's holding the club to account. If so, I applaud you. If not, you are just an anonymous internet poster with an alternative point of view to other people on the forum.
312 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:46:11
313 Posted 12/06/2021 at 19:53:07
In all seriousness, however, you've hit on the key point... IMO who is on the pitch next season will have more impact on our success (or lack thereof) than who is on our touchline.
I want five signings in this window -- all of them with a lot more pace (and a lot less beard) than Nuno.
314 Posted 12/06/2021 at 20:11:15
We are full-time "supporters" rather than the full-time "complainers" who are unable to say anything positive about the club and who announce they have had enough and are taking their dummy with them when they return their season ticket. We have heard it many times before over the years.
With a bit of luck we shall turn it around in a couple of years and then those who have given up their season tickets now will not be able to get another one when we move to BMD.
"Loyal supporters" means sticking with the club when the going gets rough and giving the team your whole support during those times.
315 Posted 12/06/2021 at 20:18:21
From Mike Walkers days when I was 13 with a paper round to go the game, right through to 25 years without missing a league or cup home game.
I went alone some nights on the bus bored and dying for the days my mates would come to Carling cup games v Rotherham.
I have been scared to miss Everton and what for? To say I am loyal? To test my loyalty year in year out? To watch "elite" clubs take whoever plays well for us. To wait years and years for a smiley day when the parade comes after a cup win?
I justified this cycle of madness with soppy loyalty claims for years and all through these years, the club has taken advantage of mine and thousands of others loyalty.
The club get more success out of your loyalty than you get out of the club.
316 Posted 12/06/2021 at 20:23:39
One day you might be in total support of each others opinions and every bit of news or situation normally brings different feelings from everyone.
Doesn't mean someone is stupid or always wrong, all constructive opinions are valid and aside of any debate we should worry every person here is fit and healthy more than anything.
317 Posted 12/06/2021 at 20:44:17
318 Posted 12/06/2021 at 20:50:01
He will criticise any of you, criticise every manager but never, ever nail his own colours to the mast.
319 Posted 12/06/2021 at 20:51:18
320 Posted 12/06/2021 at 20:57:10
Meanwhile, the players continue to go through the motions and serve up shit. Well no doubt chase out Nuno or whoever is appointed, and the cycle will begin again. Well only truly progress when we get off this carousel and stick with a manager and sort out the underperforming players…
321 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:00:28
322 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:05:04
323 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:19:18
Had it been a streaker, they would have panned elsewhere, maybe that is what the broadcasters who were showing the game, should have done, instead of keep zooming in, on the player, and his wife.
324 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:30:31
Kenwright could only have conned Moshiri into retaining him as Chairman by making it a condition of the sale of the club.
When Sheikh Mansoor reputedly considered buying the club he wasnt stupid enough to agree to Kenwrights terms and moved on to buy City instead.
The great charlatan has managed a remarkable conjuring trick by presiding over 17 years of mediocrity as owner and another 5 as chairman, with no end in sight to his tenure. Incredibly depressing.
325 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:31:09
Made us and the baggies look like crazy adventurers.
Fans have a right to be worried.
As fans we have been starved of front foot, pass and move football. Where an attempted through pass or ball down the line is worth a hundred cut backs. Starved also of aggressive, proud running and tackling in midfield and defence.
We are gorged sick on play that gets the ball so slowly and infrequently into the opposition penalty area. And when there, the play fails to maintain any consistent or coherent pressure.
We are unfamiliar with managers who actually improve players and our style of play and who develop and nurture youngsters from our youth teams.
If he arrives, I wish Nuno and his coaching staff well. Hope (as ever) that he is the manager to change things.
326 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:34:48
327 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:38:45
328 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:41:07
329 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:43:54
330 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:44:05
331 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:49:24
332 Posted 12/06/2021 at 21:57:14
333 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:01:51
Apparently Kenwight negotiated a deal that lets him do all that and more. I just don't understand why he isn't playing centre forward.
334 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:10:09
335 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:10:25
336 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:16:10
Nothing strange about it at all
337 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:17:21
338 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:20:43
How much money has Kenwright invested into the club historically?
How much money has Kenwright earned from the club historically?
339 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:22:30
Paul the Esk confirmed, that Bill turned them down for investment only from Moshiri.
340 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:23:45
I'll see you all here in 18 months when we go through this again, then?
341 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:30:17
342 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:30:18
343 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:34:03
Done well to get to 75 after his health scare three years ago.
344 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:35:47
It's all speculation and guesswork.
345 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:40:15
But we do know how much input on the club he has had over his tenure.
346 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:48:44
347 Posted 12/06/2021 at 22:58:01
Some times in life you have to take your medicine and get on with life.
Im gonna see what happens, but if true, I hope this is a slow burner to success, but Ralph R, Galtier and Potter were my hopeful choices after taking the smelling salts. But lets see what happens but get behind which manager is announced.
Id like to see how much truth there was in the reports earlier this week, he was due to be made Palace boss?
If true hes bringing in his own squad of specialist coaches, physios etc then, it seems that Everton will be undertaking a default clear out. This could be a clean cut and fresh start and should stimulate and drive fresh focus and reality...
Theres time gone by but the last 18 months of shallowness by the past manager and his team, means almost like starting again.
But until announced lets see what happens.
No I hope he will be able to at least see that Gomes is a footballer fraud and should be sold ASAP.
But lets see what the next 48 hrs upholds in all matters Everton.
348 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:02:37
We don't know the reasons that Bill remains in a position of power even if it is soft power. but a reason there must be, and my guess is that Kenwright is being used as a shield by Moshiri to avoid public scrutiny, ironically in the same manner that David Moyes was used by Bill on more than one occasion.
I've said it before but if I was fortunate enough to be the Chairman of the club I loved and supported and I was witness to what I considered to be poor decisions being made by the owner, I would relinquish my position and let somebody else take over if my views weren't being taken seriously in the boardroom.
I agree that everything isn't Bill's fault, but he has been in a position of power for a very long time, and very little scrutiny has been placed upon him. it now seems we have an owner where the same applies, and because he has 'spent' more his mistakes are more costly, which is fine if he picks up the tab at a later date, not so good if he decides to leave and the club bears the debt incurred.
349 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:09:04
If Nuno becomes our manager I'll back him until the time we start playing shit or something negative happens where he's at fault. He has Wolves playing far better than us for a few years and took his previous clubs into the competitions we're aiming to be part of. For some people there just no pleasing yous...you seem to forget that we don't have Man City's squad, where top managers are just chomping at the bit to take over the helm at Everton...not to mention if thet happen to check out the comments the fans leave I mean, look at the resounding welcome from the know it alls for Nuno already. F*ck me sideways, a bit of perspective and realism needed boys. I think some of you would still be crying is we had Man City's squad and Pep as manager. Kinda embarrassing.
350 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:21:26
At the end of the season before last Wolves were looking like they could break into the top six and were being touted as a model for us to copy.
They were denied their top scorer and most creative attacker this term with Raul and Jota gone.
I'm not keen on a back 5 (or 3 if you like it) but I am confident that this feller will get us organised and keep us in the top half.
After all, Potter may be a flash in the pan and Galtier might go the way of his compatriot Puell.
I will be interested in what arrangements have been made in the coaching staff.
At least we seem to have got a guy who looks like he is intelligent.
351 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:25:13
Thats the problem we should have had Msn citys squad and Pep but some egotistic toe rag wanted to make it a condition that he remained in control of the club no matter what so Moshiri was the only mug in town willing to do that.
May I remind everyone that BK said he was retiring at 70 another one of his famous lies.
352 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:31:28
353 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:42:58
354 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:47:27
We are all concerned mate and yet the suffering goes on.
It is fine to blame the players and they have to share most of the blame because theyre on the pitch but there always seems to be something going on at the club that undermines the manager.
Do you think Kidman agreed to let Lukaku out of his contract and not replace him and does anyone in their right mind think Man Utd getting hard drinking Rooney off their payroll and onto Evertons was not the doing of Kenwright.
Same with DBB lovely woman quite intelligent but not a clue about football but ends up as CEO.
Big Dunc, love the guy and his passion for the club but what qualifies him for assistant manager.
There is far too much influence by Kenwright and I am one who thinks that is unhealthy for the club.
355 Posted 12/06/2021 at 23:57:25
Most people believe and understand what he has done to the club over an extended period, but there are always one or two ostriches. All you have to do is spend an afternoon on the internet and most will be revealed.
356 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:00:59
Yes, Gomes did play under Nuno at Valencia, he was signed from Benfica along with a few others, thanks to his agent Jorge Mendes. If you go about 10 minutes into the linked video you will see the list of players who left Benfica to join Valencia.
Stephen did you mean Bluffalot Bill?
357 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:02:00
I'll just let that hang...
358 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:06:40
He might have too much influence, if he does I agree that's very unhealthy, but the question needs asked of everyone else in the club as to why it's continuously allowed. Theres more involved than him, that's why I get frustrated at his name being thrown around as the cause of all the club's problems, ya know? Influence and power are different things. Especially considering he's no longer majority stake holder.
I just get really frustrated (I know it comes from a place of passion) when I see so many negative comments, its like a lot of fans just want to find something to complain about.
359 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:08:04
Bearing that in mind, I find your comments throughout this thread to be disappointing, unfair and utterly lamentable. You give negativity a bad name.
360 Posted 13/06/2021 at 00:35:02
361 Posted 13/06/2021 at 00:36:27
362 Posted 12/06/2021 at 00:40:58
I had no problem with blaming 55-70-years old Kenwright for holding Everton back. Since Mosh taking over these 5 years now, any blame transfers off Old Bill and onto him.
Your post (346) "Kenwright has zero input in the club. It just makes people feel better to blame him for our problems."
Gaynes' (344) "Nobody here has the slightest idea how much input Kenwright currently has on the club's decisions. If any. It's all speculation and guesswork.", are correct.
Away from that, concerning how many managers. . . . . . . . since Mosh took control, our next manager will be our NINTH in 5 years, if you include Roberto who was manager at the time and the Unsy/Royle combo who finished the season once Roberto was let go.
363 Posted 13/06/2021 at 00:43:18
But in the end if he can't or won't change he will get called out on here.
But he's got to be here first, then he's got to continually get it wrong...or hopefully right.
But it's not the world's easiest job, not even when you're at the top of the League and in a Champions League final...eh Pep?
364 Posted 13/06/2021 at 00:48:15
365 Posted 13/06/2021 at 01:00:03
I'm going to have to watch Jerry Maguire now to get some belief back. As l said, interesting times. Maybe Mendes will have more pull than our Carlo did. Maybe its a reason for us taking our time in the appointment and covering ourselves, and Brands surely he can't be happy?
366 Posted 13/06/2021 at 01:04:28
Don't know about Greater Evertonia, but on ToffeeWeb, Kenwright's been scrutinized to nudity and just short of a rectal exam.
367 Posted 13/06/2021 at 01:42:32
368 Posted 13/06/2021 at 01:45:12
My biggest puzzle is trying to understand how he managed to find somebody to buy the club and still retain a position on the board.
If a club had been languishing around mid table for what seemed like an eternity with only the FA Cup to show for it then why would a new owner keep the old one on board ? Maybe this is more to do with Moshiris lack of football acumen and he thought Kenwright would have this, Im not sure but the whole thing stinks.
369 Posted 13/06/2021 at 02:33:11
Just the same, this : "Paul#332 Apparently Kenwight negotiated a deal that lets him do all that and more. I just don't understand why he isn't playing centre forward.", is just one example of the many (limitless it seems) made up nonsensical remarks about Kenwright since Moshiri bought control of the Club.
Anything anti-Bill prior to Moshiri buying in, fill your boot and count me in. Since, though? Uhuh. It's on Moshiri. Why he's kept Kenwright around on some kind of emeritus status, I don't know. Guy has his reasons.
"Two camps!", "Different factions!" Haha.
There's only one camp or faction; the Moshiri one.
370 Posted 13/06/2021 at 02:42:17
371 Posted 13/06/2021 at 03:14:21
And hadn't Fat Sam been bagged five times when we hired him?
Managers are hired to be fired. No big deal.
372 Posted 13/06/2021 at 07:05:44
Richard #303 - "Eugene @256...didn't Ranieri get lucky with a group of players Nigel Pearson assembled ? Nuno wont be so lucky..!"
Well let's say you're 100% right (nb: and you're not) and the reason Ranieri led Leicester (nb: Leicester!) to the PL was luck, what is your reasoning/logic/proof for 'Nuno won't be so lucky!'?
Why won't he be?
How do you know he won't be so lucky?
How is luck allocated?
You might be right but..you might be wrong
I repeat, the only (sensible) conclusion that can be reached after looking at the available 'evidence' is nobody knows anything.
373 Posted 13/06/2021 at 07:15:01
But as I came to TW, was cracking through stuff, and came upon this, I'll say this.
I thought my defense of Roberto Martinez was the pinnacle of Yank v Brit.
Clearly, Roberto was just a primer for what's to come.
Nuno was my bullet pick. I think he's perfect for Everton, and I desperately want him to be appointed.
The throng thinks otherwise.
I look forward to defending my man against the horde.
Nuno is the perfect appointment. You're all fucking off your rocker to think otherwise.
And again and finally, does it matter? Seeing what I saw today, this is all just peripheral bullshit. There's more important things.
374 Posted 13/06/2021 at 07:34:08
Maybe Nuno is made for us? someones fucking got to be, because Evertonians need to explode with joy, because weve simply had enough despair, and its going to be bloody marvelous when it finally happens again!!🙏
375 Posted 13/06/2021 at 07:45:52
My own thoughts on Kenwright, have been put on these pages often, since I started writing a few too many posts, but I got up this morning and in the middle of my fruit bowl was a rotten apple, which is imo, the perfect description of our saviour.
376 Posted 13/06/2021 at 07:59:16
377 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:06:37
378 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:14:25
And as to why if he has been that bad did nobody stand up to him then I think you need to see Trevor Birch and Paul Gregg.
379 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:19:34
When Leicester hired him, nobody thought he'd turn them into a top 5 team.
So let's hope that Nuno can surprise us all too.
He's a young manager still, and he we had hired him 18 months ago when his stock was much higher, the comments here would be totally different.
380 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:25:42
*The end of October and/or 10 games in will be time to tot up the points scored so far...then January, June and again in Oct 2022.
*I was going to add...unless it goes all Mike Walker - but, sadly, there are a few more candidates now.
381 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:26:56
We also have a really awful stadium and a recent history of dire club mismanagement with no manager lasting more than 18 months.
It is not a case of mediocrity here we come - it's a case of mediocrity here we are (and have been throughout the Premier League era).
The appointment of someone to stabilise the club and rebuild a deteriorating squad comprising a jumble of 3 or 4 managers' players has to be the start of a journey out of mediocrity.
That journey will not end until we have moved stadium and we have built, through whatever means, a £bn (+) squad.
Against recent history, if Nuno moves us up the table to 6th or even 7th, gives us a Europa league run and manages to stay in place for the length of his (3 year?) contract then that is a successful stint.
For those wondering why we didn't ask Conte, Mancini or Pochettino or others, there is every chance we did but were greeted with unenthusiastic responses from men who are more interested in winning trophies at the current set of Elite clubs (or nations).
382 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:33:40
383 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:38:44
It amuses me reading about how some want us to return to playing this open attacking attractive football
When was this?
Weve had the odd few games here and there over the years but nothing consistent since the mid 80s
What we have seriously missed over the years is passion and commitment from players and management
Yes it alone wont win us games but it might give us the identity sadly missing since the Kendall teams
384 Posted 13/06/2021 at 08:43:56
We wanted a world class manager - he got Ancelotti for us
We wanted creative players - he got Rodriguez for us
We wanted an overall of the academy - he got Brands in to reduce the average age.
385 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:00:05
..in the case of Ranieri...lets replace the word "lucky" with the phrase "good fortune"...& yes, you are right nobody knows how Nuno will get on, so lets get behind him & give him a chance . !
386 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:03:17
On top of all that not one has bought any Tickets for Blood Brothers! :-)
387 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:10:28
Well said Jamie#373 Fran#379 and Robert#381
388 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:16:28
A fans footballing “career” lasts from around 7 to around 80 (median age of death). A fan has 73 years for his team to fail, recover, win stuff an so on.
A very good footballer has a career around 7-8 years, say from 22-29. The occasional outlier like Rooney or Renaldo goes on a bit longer, but not much. He gets, as Eminem said, one shot.
Footballers are, from what I can see, half mercenary, half glory-hunter. If they see the management recruiting mid-table talent at the top and they believe they are better than they, they will, very sensibly, leave.
If I were DCL, Godfrey, Richarlison, Kean, Keane or Pickford, Id be looking very seriously at the next manager. And if he hasnt got the stardust of an Ancelotti (no matter whether he ultimately failed or not) Id be on my bike at the first offer from Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, or even Arsenal.
389 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:27:09
Just on the point of managers being rubbish or outdated or out of their depth when they are at Everton. It's always them that get the abuse, and it's deemed acceptable based on their earnings.
The players get a bit of stick occasionally but, by and large, have a free hit at this football lark! I have never found it necessary to consider it correct to abuse people and condone it because they earn lots of money, and find the concept strange.
Anyway, I saw Lukaku score two last night – one left foot, one right – and wondered how he ended up at Everton. Worse still, the owners sold him. One day, the penny will drop with our owners that you add good players to your current good players, not sell your best ones to finance buying numbers of rubbish.
Unless Moshiri puts his hand in his pocket again, and resists selling current assets (just the rubbish, please) it doesn't matter who the manager is, Everton are going nowhere fast. The new man has my backing and sympathy in good measure!
390 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:28:10
391 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:45:50
392 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:50:41
It is true that we cannot know precisely how much "weight" Bill's word still carries in the day-to-day running, of the club but as Chairman, he will probably have the casting vote in the event of a board room tie in a split vote.
Additionally, the Companies Act sets out very clearly what the responsibilities are for any company director and there are strict legal penalties for deviation from those rules.
So, the fact that he remains Chairman of a board of four directors does mean that he does still have considerable power in the club, and in all decision-making processes that affect the club.
393 Posted 13/06/2021 at 09:59:09
I'd disagree on that too, sorry. He had one stated aim which was for Everton to survive under his stewardship until they could get investment. In the meantime, we survived and got the investment we needed; we didn't go downhill really but we didn't improve as we didn't have the resources to improve.
Kenwright never claimed he had any money to invest. I believe that his presence at the club is bad but history needs to be fair to the bloke.
394 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:10:06
395 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:26:53
396 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:28:46
397 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:36:35
398 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:42:16
As for Marcelo, hopefully that is complete bollocks.
Pace, creativity and goals in wide & forward positions. Here's hoping.
399 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:46:24
400 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:47:06
As for his influence now, look at the mess.
401 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:55:44
402 Posted 13/06/2021 at 10:56:52
We should be going for Benitez or Martinez. Had Martinez been given transfer windows by Moshiri we would have won a trophy by now. He got to two semis before Moshiri. ( Had Lukaku put that pen away in the semi we would have won that game). Some money behind him and we would be in a better place now. Again, my opinion and I'm sure many will disagree with me and won't hesitate in saying so.
403 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:09:13
404 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:19:06
405 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:26:28
406 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:36:46
We are once again looking at a different level of managerial appointment.
Martinez was a gamble to a large degree, Koeman was unchartered territory, Silva was largely a punt and Allardyce was hired to do a job. Ancellotti might have worked if he'd been thrown lots of cash and Covid hadn't come along.
So Nunes is actually a considered appointment for once.
He has Premier League experience, will attract good players and has a decent backroom staff around him.
We need to back him on the pitch and with the funds to get the right players to do a job
No good just hiring him to use the players we have. He needs the backing of the board and backing of us fans. I think given the right backing he'll surprise us all
He gets my vote and I'll support him
407 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:44:08
Ian #402, Lukaku should never have been allowed to take that pen in the first place. The fact that he did, IMO, showed one of the problems with Martinez as a coach and that was a lack of discipline or leadership on the pitch. I think you make some fair points about Nuno but a much better choice than Benitez who I think is past it. I dont believe going back works out the majority of the time and therefore wouldnt have Martinez either. We need stability first and to stop trying to run before we can walk. I am hopeful that Nuno will give us that and put us in a position to challenge the top 6. Then maybe we can bring in a coach that will move us into the top 4. To me Nuno is the best realistic option available given where we are as a club at the moment.
408 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:46:35
409 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:50:36
With reference to your defence of Kenwright, do a Lloyd Grossman ( ' Through The Keyhole ' or the Arsehole in this instance) and Examine the evidence!
Agreed, Kenwright, as far as we know, has little influence at Finch Farm, or in the training of players. Maybe you should try and get involved, and then we would all know who to blame !
No doubt the other half of Jedward will be on soon to defend you, or verbally attack me, I'm waiting like The Prisoner of Zenda.
410 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:54:01
Martin, 393, history is being fair, he was hopeless.
411 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:59:20
412 Posted 13/06/2021 at 11:59:55
Putting your sarcasm aside, the reasons why I think Nuno will fail have been stated elsewhere on the thread:
1. He ultimately failed at Wolves and was basically sacked.
2. His Wolves team pressed the least last season ( except Newcastle) throughout Europe's top 5 leagues.
3. His teams don't score a lot of goals: 51, 47 and 36.
4. His tactics are negative, like Ancelotti.
5. He got promoted and finished 7th. Chris Wilder did the same. Should we hire him??
6. His team finished below Everton last season. Why are we hiring a manager who performed worse than the man he is replacing?
7. Given he is Portuguese, he will no doubt persist with Gomes – the worst midfielder the club has had since Nyarko.
413 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:02:31
The trouble now is that we've had 4 managers and more caretakers since Martinez. We're deteriorating and unstable. So I don't see too much harm in handing the reins to Santo in the hope of improvement and stability. Santo, if he turns the club around, can then hand us to someone to take us to the next level
414 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:10:44
Terry White# 279 We could still get McCarthy on a free transfer!
415 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:12:26
Reading through and catching up, this one got lively!
Danny Broderick. You've started me off again. We need better players! I don't know if I have high blood pressure and I'd probably best not get it checked. We need better players regardless of the manager.
Tony Abrahams, on the drive down to my house, on a good day like today I can see the Wembley Arch (as it is now rather than the twin towers). It always makes me recall that wonderful few months in 1984 when I went to Wembley twice and finally saw Everton lift a trophy. Every time I see that arch, I convince myself it's going to be next May. It's going to be next May and it's going to happen again!! At least this time, I won't be looking worryingly at my Dad trying to get on the pitch at the and wondering how I would get back to Liverpool. I can still pick him out on the footage trying to scale the fence. I'm stood somewhere behind him!
Back on topic. Surprised this is dragging on if it's pretty much a done deal. Maybe there's other options still on the table?
416 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:20:04
It doesn't matter what the final Goal stats read at the end of the day, but granted it is more exciting to watch, as long as the GD is superior to those around you. If you look at Leicester the year that Ranieri led them to the Premiership Title, they weren't winning 5 and 6 nil games, most were 0-1, 1-0, 2-1, 1-2, and yet they came out on top with superior points, more than anyone else.
Lastly, one point we do agree on, is that Gomes is vastly over-rated, but he has played under Nuno before at Valencia, who finished 4th, Gomes was their Player of the Year, believe it or not. Hence why Barcelona came in for him, you never know with the right influence (Nuno) he may turn a Portuguese Donkey into an Arabian Stallion again.
417 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:30:45
418 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:33:30
Time will tell I suppose. One thing is for sure though, Nuno and EFC stands a much better chance of success with a united fan base behind him, roaring the team on.
419 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:49:02
Perhaps this time around we can also win our first 4 games and keep that momentum going. We are not too far away with a bit of balanced signings and some confidence and structure. By the looks of things we would be hiring both Nuno and his best friend agent.
I am happy with Nuno. I wasn't with Koeman or Silva, so optimistic its mainly our attitudes to change. My mothers side are all Wolves fans and only have great things to say about him.
I'm looking forward also to seeing Nkounkou again... l mean to drop him after 1 bad game and only play him for the final 10 minutes of the last game of the season. Wtf Carlo out!!
420 Posted 13/06/2021 at 12:55:17
Your Honour I was only 5 miles per hour over the, (not so clearly indicated) limit, and I did park on a Yellow Line for all of one minute, but come on?
Did you mention some time back Neil that you were interested in the TW Golf Day Friday, 27th August, at Aldersey Green Golf Club? Or am I mistaken? I do hope to have another TW Get Together at the Excelsior, once I know what the new fixture list is. Ideally a Home Game with an early kick off on a Saturday or a Sunday.
I know you enjoyed the last one although we both had problems with trains afterwards! Not exactly an endorsement on the strength of the beer at the Excelsior, but more being in good company, and not realising the Coach had turned back into a Pumpkin!
421 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:00:27
422 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:01:51
423 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:04:37
As far as Kenwright is concerned, add Goodison... "Lose our safety license" the "Kirkby for Everton" debacle.
As far as Santo is concerned, if we get him, why pre-judge him on one season? Read, listen to Wolves supporters?
To me, if Mr Moshiri (who some call an idiot but without him we'd have sunk without trace) stands by his convictions re getting Brands in as DoF, then hopefully he will allow Brands to have a major say in our choice of manager and what players we buy. If Brands has decided that Santo is the best option available to us, then I'm all for giving that partnership my full support.
We've got some players who either aren't good enough, or interested enough, or both... and they have to go. Hard job, as who would want to buy them.
If Godfrey is an example of Brands picking players, then I think we'll do as well as we could possibly do, in the situation we find ourselves in. If Santo can work with the players Wolves had, and bought in and made them a good side, I'll be hoping that partnership can do the same for us.
We've got some good, young players and I don't discount several of them being ready for the first team. I was lucky enough to be at Wembley in 1966, as a 16-year-old, when we won the Cup in thrilling fashion. Since the 1970-71 season, we've had an all-too-short time in the mid-80s as a great team. We were let down then by the board and sunk by the other lot.
We need stability first of all and progress after that. If Brands thinks Santo is the best candidate available, then that'll do for me.
424 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:04:38
Also, Chris Wilder didn't finish 7th. You know who did? Wolves! Honestly, it takes two seconds to research this stuff.
425 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:06:40
426 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:07:04
427 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:09:56
428 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:14:17
429 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:31:53
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but, at the end of the day, we need to get behind the new man and show our support. He may even do half a job!
I haven't played golf for a long time and don't have any clubs now so, unless someone wants a caddy, thanks for the offer.
It would be great to have a get-together, let me know so I can check the train times and book a lift off my daughter as back up. Actually the Guinness in The Excelsior was ok so no excuse.
Pat#426, ha ha, 50/50 I reckon.
Stephen #428, when did the small matter of a contract ever get in the way?
430 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:43:03
Ancelotti's reign was stinking like a kipper fallen behind a radiator and the majority of our fans were still kissing his picture every night before bedtime.
Look at the results and performances. You'll find the answers there. Not by listening to Gavin from Dudley calling in on Talksport.
431 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:45:09
432 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:46:14
Looks like the Nuno thing is happening.
433 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:50:59
434 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:54:07
435 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:56:01
Ian E, get paid mate. Bill Kenwright done his best, you dont have to listen to people like Wally from Walton, on ToffeeWeb to know this.
436 Posted 13/06/2021 at 13:58:03
437 Posted 13/06/2021 at 14:13:52
438 Posted 13/06/2021 at 15:09:30
439 Posted 13/06/2021 at 15:28:20
440 Posted 13/06/2021 at 15:44:15
441 Posted 13/06/2021 at 15:52:10
442 Posted 13/06/2021 at 15:54:59
443 Posted 13/06/2021 at 15:59:36
Whether he was successful or not is a matter of opinion. Our opinions differ. "Spinning untruths" would suggest you hold your opinions as facts. I'm not such an egoist.
444 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:03:10
445 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:04:33
Wolves finished 7th, 7th, and then a disappointing 13th (in a season they lost 3 key players) in the Premier League.
Before that they were a Championship side, who had fluttered between the PL and the Championship but we're ultimately a championship side with occasional seasons in the PL.
Now they are established in the PL. So that is not failure.
Method/tactics etc is another discussion. I just wonder, in what way did he fail?
He didn't win the league? He didn't win the europa? What were his failures in his 4 year term? What more was expected for him ove this 4 years as manager?
446 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:17:23
Comparing Gomes to Nyarko is preposterous.
Nyarko was one of the worst, and certainly
laziest, players I have ever seen in a blue shirt in over 60 years.
Gomes has never looked to be same player after his injury but at 27 he can still get back to his pre-injury form with a new management team.
447 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:29:19
448 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:33:40
Certainly if I was feeling as pessimistic about things as Ian I think would be seeking help.
449 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:34:33
A week later, Everton lost to Liverpool reserves in the fa cup, because they were on their knees, and yet Wolves beat the Champions, and took the game to the soon to be champions, less than 48 hrs later, and I remember being very impressed with both their fitness levels and the speed in which they got about the pitch.
Im sure Wolves also played more games than anyone in the covid season, and also started earlier than everyone else because of the Europa lge, so if Nuno comes to Everton, the first thing Im going to do is get right behind him.
450 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:37:08
While he wouldn't be my first choice, we have to get behind him, and who knows what he may be able to do with a club which has more resources than Wolves?
451 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:43:06
452 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:44:35
453 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:47:06
At Wolves they lost 0-2, 1-2 and 0-1. At Anfield they lost 1-0, 2-0 and 4-0.
For the sake of completeness Wolves did beat a very weakened Liverpool team in the FA Cup 2-1.
454 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:57:30
I always judge a game fairly though, and am rarely biased, because it just makes people look silly imo, but I was amazed by the fitness levels of Wolves at Anfield during that game considering theyd had less than 48 hrs rest Ian.
I remember Wolves knocking a weakened Liverpool out the cup, but I wasnt talking about that, I was just saying how impressed I was by Wolves, because most managers moan and say its impossible to play twice in 48 hrs, especially against a team that have had more rest.
455 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:58:57
General opinion is that you are the other end! 😜
Don/Thomas, From what I can gather, that Nuno became disillusioned that he had not only unwanted injuries to contend with, but the owners cashed in on players he wanted to keep. A Classic case of Greed or Profit prioritising success on the pitch!
456 Posted 13/06/2021 at 16:59:39
457 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:03:58
Yet to meet a wolves fan who called for his head the despondency was palpable and the surprise monumental when he left.
That being said "IF" he got the boot it stands to reason it must have been for other reasons beyond togger. I can only remember Tommy Doc getting the heave ho against fans wishes and that was for having a relationship with the physio's wife.
The report he told the board he'd done as much as he could seems far more likely than a conspiracy that they got shut of him and all involved swore an oath not to tell the truth.
No, he wasn't sacked
458 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:06:57
You might be right Ian, about him being a defensive coach, because City were winning and its possible Wolves only attacked when City went down to ten men, but they did the double over City that season, something Im not sure any team could do, unless they are decent at both ends of the pitch?
459 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:11:04
Local Wolves Journalist Tim Spiers stated on a podcast that Nuno was very nearly sacked in January after losing 4-2 to West Brom.
460 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:14:44
If that was true - why?
Clubs sack managers all the time why the cloak and dagger stuff? It just doesn't make any sense at all.
461 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:15:33
462 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:23:23
It'll be interesting to see if the Mosh backs his latest by providing enough dosh for players being sought by other top-half clubs, especially if Nuno threw his hand in because of lack of cash-backing at Molyneux.
463 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:34:30
However, from his first season with Wolves until his penultimate one, it looks to me that he had developed a successful (very successful in comparison to our sides and the money we spent) side.
Last season, Liverpool lost their hold on the league championship in record time, so I think there was a fair few odd outcomes maybe due to the Lockdown.
It doesn't alter the fact that when I saw Wolves from the Upper Bullens in their first season back, they struck me as a much better side than us. I would think that if we get 2 seasons of similar results with Nuno at the helm, I'd consider that we'd had two very successful seasons, and I'd be looking at the last two seasons as the dross they were (and that's being kind)
So I think that Nuno, if we get him, is a reasopnable choice from the managers we reputedly had a chance of signing.
464 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:38:55
465 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:47:22
466 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:48:02
Now whether that figure includes projected (possible) sales of the likes of Moise Kean, and any others who are deemed surplus to requirements, provided they agree to go and are found suitable Clubs willing to re-employ them.
From what I can gather too, with Nuno's and Brands' connections, I think there could well be relatively undiscovered quality with potential arriving, none of this £25M starting price for a relatively unknown, untested at Premiership level player of the past. It will make a pleasant and welcome change to see the Coach/Manager (what's in a name) working successfully in tandem with the DoF, and singing from the same Programme.
467 Posted 13/06/2021 at 17:56:03
Nunes did great at Wolves the official line seems perfectly legit it was just time to call it a day. And let's be honest journos aren't exactly renowned for dealing in facts
468 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:02:56
469 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:06:42
470 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:07:13
471 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:11:32
I say that on the back of a long chat I had with him many years ago on a night out on the ale with mutual friends.
He may well have changed his outlook of course.
472 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:11:41
You can't be "given a chance" if you don't even apply for open positions. I'd posit that Dunc is perfectly happy, delighted even, right where he is.
473 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:16:57
474 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:21:20
Hard to get excited by anything we do lately. The only candidate with anything about him is Galtier.
475 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:22:33
He wouldn't be my first choice but people who know more than me think he is. We are rolling the dice once more, and, you know what, that is all it really is.
476 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:25:12
Eugene posted earlier.
Nobody knows how his appointment will go.
Its unconditional backing from me for the first season at least.
477 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:26:20
Ian, I've just been onto a Wolves fans forum. A guy there called Gavin is saying we shouldn't listen to an Ian posting on ToffeeWeb.
478 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:30:01
479 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:31:13
480 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:36:44
Who are we to argue? 🤔🤣
481 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:39:02
482 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:44:59
What more was expected of Nuno in his 4 years as manager of Wolves?
What did he fail to do what was considered a minimal requirement when he took over a championship side?
Stabilisation in PL? Check.
Qualification for Europe? Check.
What else could have been reasonably expected?
I'm not saying I'm overwhelmed by his appointment. I've made my case previously. But in regards to this idea that he was a 'failure' in his previous job, I can't see anything to back that up.
Over to you Ian.
483 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:52:07
484 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:52:21
485 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:53:09
He might be a great manager in the making, but even now, the manager takes the responsibility for facing the press, relating to players, tactics, transfer discussions, laying out his vision for the future. so it would seem to me that Dunc would serve us best by proving he could fill the roll permanently and take all the responsibilities on.
I would think we need, more than anything else, is a period of stability and with ( all fingers crossed) steady progression.
486 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:57:48
Don't they normally have their head up somebody ELSE's arse?
487 Posted 13/06/2021 at 18:59:24
You said categorically that he failed.
In terms of his achievements, how did he fail?
Again, not an enthusiastic supporter, but what is the answer the that question?
Pochettino was sacked by Spurs. Was he a failure?
Zidane was sacked by Real. Was he a failure?
Allegri was sacked by Juve. Was he a failure?
Tuchel was sacked by PSG. Was he a failure?
The list could go on forever.
488 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:01:53
Therein lies your fundamental flaw - there are many reasons - personal, health, politics, not enough karaoke than the assumption he failed.
(A moot point as every indicator shows he wasn't sacked)
489 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:05:38
He's behind you! :-)
490 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:06:54
All speculation by the way
491 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:11:09
492 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:17:06
493 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:19:43
494 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:27:09
495 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:39:54
496 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:44:24
497 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:47:24
498 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:51:33
499 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:55:43
On a note about Nuno's/Ancelotti's performance last season, well, The Covid season was F****** weird and very little can be reliably read from it.
500 Posted 13/06/2021 at 19:56:04
501 Posted 13/06/2021 at 20:09:38
Weve took a chance on loads of others who havent been that good, I agree, and if we could go and find a first class coach, then Id be quite happy to give Duncan Ferguson a go, because he does come across as “management material” and I think Everton definitely need a strong manager in what is a roasting-hot-seat, right now.
502 Posted 13/06/2021 at 20:23:56
503 Posted 13/06/2021 at 20:24:18
504 Posted 13/06/2021 at 20:28:55
Anyone seeking him as our manager must have had faith in Mark Hughes still being the dynamic striker of yesteryear when we signed him. As if!
In fairness to Ferguson he himself has shown zero ambition to even try to become a manager or anything else other than a.n.other sponger at USMFF.
On another matter, folks are saying we may be interested in the Spanish right-back Pedro Porro, on loan at Sporting Lisbon from Citteh. Given that in Portuguese his surname translates as "Fuck" I'd expect him to welcome a move.
505 Posted 13/06/2021 at 20:32:30
506 Posted 13/06/2021 at 20:43:39
That's right but only just!
We finished 10th just 8 points from Champions League.
West ham 2pts from top 4
Leicester 1 pt from top 4
Villa 7 Champions 2
Champions lose 6 home games in a row.
Jose's Spurs win 6-1at Old Trafford.
More away wins in the PL than home wins.
507 Posted 13/06/2021 at 20:46:06
I hope to the gods, that on this appointment, the sanity clause should be included in every one of the Board Members contracts.
We need stability and progress, even if it's slow progress, we'd be in dangerous territory if we carry on jumping from one direction to another.
Whoever we get, and I think Nuno is as good as any in this list that we could realistic attract, if not better than most of them.
508 Posted 13/06/2021 at 21:02:07
ha feckin ha
509 Posted 13/06/2021 at 21:11:37
510 Posted 13/06/2021 at 21:54:42
511 Posted 13/06/2021 at 23:08:41
We need stability with the manager and a re-building. Lets give give Nuno a chance, that or see if PSG or Bayan need a need manager
513 Posted 14/06/2021 at 07:43:30
514 Posted 14/06/2021 at 08:28:46
By his own admission he has never been near the place and knows nothing about the inner machinations of the club.
No one person on TW speaks with such authority about something he knows absolutely fuck all about.
You are right about Duncan Ferguson. He stepped forward when this club was in free fall and looking nailed on to go down.
He restored pride. He injected passion, even at places like Old Trafford and he got us heading North.
I get that the board would go for the Hollywood signing when the opportunity arose. But by giving the job to the Italian Night King, they were forfeiting a golden opportunity to see if the answer to their managerial problems had been right under their noses all the time.
I'd be amazed if the board risked going into a brand new season with a manager with virtually no experience.
There will ALWAYS be a question mark surrounding The big Scot. He was unbeaten if four and he did undoubtedly have Evertonia bouncing. Was it sustainable ? I guess we will probably never know. At the time. I made absolutely no secret of the fact that I would loved to have found out.
The only people who can say for certain that he would have failed are the ones who speak with such authority about stuff they know fuck all about.
There is an astonishing level of naivety attached to the claim that Kenwright. would insist that any new manager would have to retain DF as coach as a condition of getting the gig.
When you pay a man 11m quid a year. You let him choose his own staff.
Ferguson is still here, because a succession of managers (who have been to finch farm) wanted him to be
515 Posted 14/06/2021 at 08:30:59
516 Posted 14/06/2021 at 08:46:38
Personally, I would love to see Ferguson given a go. I think any new experiences manager will instantly want his own players and therefore be in opposition to what Brands wants. As much as I havent rated Brands yet, if we have him we might as well use him.
Install Ferguson as head coach. Ferguson tells Brands the positions he wants, Brands secures the players, Ferguson works with the players Brands brings in. Anyone else and well have another 2-3 signings that are not within the overall philosophy.
517 Posted 14/06/2021 at 08:53:41
518 Posted 14/06/2021 at 08:59:38
Trouble is the board could potentially find themselves fire-fighting again mid season if it all goes tits up. That's the risk with any appointment at the end of the day so emphasis has to be on safety given our mediocre squad. It's a catch 22 with Duncan really and a shame he hasn't had a go anywhere else - even Scotland. I think the risk from simply having no real barometric for Dunc will always be a block with him.
So, of the realistic alternatives it seems to be back to NES really. Would have him before Howe or Benitez, and no returning faces either, please.
519 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:07:12
Joe Kinnear gave a free-falling Newcastle a similar shot - they were relegated. Alan Shearer, Toon legend, the same. I know its Newcastle but…
520 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:18:34
Do you really think the effect of Joe Kinnear had at Newcastle was anything like the one Ferguson had here ?
You are right about one ting there is no evidence that Ferguson could sustain it over a season, but there is no evidence to the contrary either,
Sorry lad, but you have (by your own admission) happy clapped a succession of "experienced managers" to the bitter end. You did it in the name of positivety.
How did that go ?
521 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:22:04
As mentioned above, the important thing about Duncan staying in place or not is that decision is made by the new manager.
I know I'm impatient, but at the same time want the club to take time in making their decision, but considering this was on the verge, it seems to be dragging on.
522 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:30:08
I have never needed any manager to get me cheering for the Blues, never ever, Ive been in the ground many, many times and the crowd have taken over and roared the team onto a win that looked unlikely, Duncan knew and used the crowd in the lucky win over Chelsea, he does know and love Everton, he is a born again Evertonian and Scouser thanks to a fanatical Everton family who took him under their wing when he joined the Blues, his love and fervour for the Blues is not false, he is one of us, I just dont think he is ready to manage Everton, now.
523 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:34:21
524 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:37:54
At least we'll find out one way or another if hiring someone close to the fans and the spirt of the club makes a difference. Unfortunately, I think that he will be faced with a poor quality squad who lack motivation and pride, particularly the senior pros.
If they do go with one of the above names, then it would be in Ferguson's best interests to go and get some managerial experience under his belt at a Championship or League One club.
525 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:40:50
The thing is. we will probably never know. You are 100% right when you say he drew from the crowd and I get your second point. knowing the club well enough and being a big enough figure to to be able to do that does not make him a top flight manager.
Given the players at his disposal and the backing he got. I personally belief Ancelotti was pound for pound the worst manager we (Everton not anybody else) have ever appointed. Eighteen months wasted on total zombie football at an astronomical cost. His failure was infinitely predictable... Duncan's far less so.
526 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:53:22
Dave you've said exactly what I think, only better than I could have put it mate.
527 Posted 14/06/2021 at 09:59:03
528 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:02:02
It may well transpire that he turns out to be a great manager, at this stage nobody knows one way or the other. Certainly, his sort spell in charge in December 2019 was not conclusive proof that he would not make the grade.
529 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:10:37
Nuno sounds like he wants his own coaching team, so it could be the perfect opportunity for Duncan to show what he's learnt and what he can do in the Championship or League One. Hopefully he does well, he will certainly learn a lot either way. And then perhaps he will have proven himself ready to take over at Goodison/Bramley Moore!
530 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:12:12
Anyway, the point Dave's made is a good one. We're not so much in need of a cheer leader, as at Goodison that night, the crowd was determined that we wouldn't get beat, the atmosphere was electric and the Bayern manager come of saying "this isn't football, this is war"
Well, it wasn't war, it was the supporters telling the team to stuff the oppostion and the Gwladys Street didn't shut up from beginning to end.
So, in my view, we need a team to give us some hope and a reason to kick off the Goodison roar at every home match, and the crowd should be able to expect, at the very least, that our team is full of players who will pull their tripes out in every match.
That in my view, is the managers job, is to get a team playing the football that we will get behind. Get a blend of skill, aggression and spirit
I think the first thing I'd like to see, is a team that don't know when then they are beaten, full of a mantra that we never give in. There's many more things that a manager has to get right that will take time, it did for Howard, and the team we've got at the moment, have some players who don't seem able to pass a ball, or last much more than 75 minutes.
I'm not sure that Duncan can supply all the skills a manager needs, and that's why I think he would do himself, and maybe us, a favour by proving himself elsewhere first.
531 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:15:18
think that was the fa cup tie at notts county when Andy gray headed in from 6 inches off the deck
532 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:15:43
If the next manager is the father, the son or the Holy Ghost (spirit) I will support him untll proven wrong. Be that your love child, Duncan, Nuno or (god forbid) Moyes.
Unlike you, some of us dont sit on the fence and snipe at every manager in the hope that Darren the Wise is proven right once again!
533 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:19:10
However, was he ever in the frame ? Was he sounded out or was the fact that he was going to Monaco already a done deal ?
If Nuno is coming to EFC we'll never know what Galtier could have done.
I'll have to keep an eye on his career from now on.
Was there ever the chance that he could have come here and possibly worked some magic ? We'll never know c'est la vie say the old folks you never really ever can tell.
534 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:20:21
535 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:21:45
536 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:24:07
537 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:24:45
538 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:40:23
"his love and fervour for the Blues is not false, he is one of us,"
He loves the club unconditionally.
And your right on the family who looked after him.
Betty was like a second mother to him.
Tommy was. Well Tommy😁
539 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:41:11
Thanks Rob and Barry.
I think Colin's point is a vital one. We nearly lost Howard because he was having a bad time getting the team to blend, to get results and the "petition" was doing the rounds. So that's how near we were to losing him. Until all hope is gone, we should back our manager and our team, as long as they're putting in the effort and they believe in the manager, then we should too.
There seems to be more criticism now, of any potential manager on the list and that mind set is in danger of being carried on to the season in the ground. It's as though some are just waiting for things to go wrong before coming out with "I told you so."
Whoevr is chosen, and in my view nuno is a decent choice but if the Board pick someone else, then so be it, the team need the support of us no matter who gets the job.
540 Posted 14/06/2021 at 10:49:22
The manager and the team need to click. If they do they will be successful and if they dont click they will be unsuccessful. So, the first skill full job is in the hands of the person or those persons to select the right manager and adjust the playing staff accordingly.
Over to you Mr Brands!
542 Posted 14/06/2021 at 11:03:26
The internet was still in nappies and we could chat with a few mates in the pub and have a moan when we met up at matches.
Today we are saturated with media and social media coverage. Think of all the websites where we can have our say. Where we can write articles analysing the team, the players. Where could we read this back in 1984?
There is now more co-ordinated criticism than there ever was and that momentum is difficult to stop. There will always be a totem pole for people to gather around.
543 Posted 14/06/2021 at 11:06:09
I will never criticise Duncan for what he did for our club as caretaker manager, he saved us and for that reason alone he will always have my respect and support!!
544 Posted 14/06/2021 at 11:08:41
545 Posted 14/06/2021 at 11:12:57
546 Posted 14/06/2021 at 11:53:29
547 Posted 14/06/2021 at 12:02:58
Thank God for Kevin Brock.
548 Posted 14/06/2021 at 12:20:47
Bang average manager of a bang average club. We'll have yet another bang average season and finish bang in the middle of the table.
Everton. Not but average is good enough.
549 Posted 14/06/2021 at 12:24:46
550 Posted 14/06/2021 at 12:43:42
I have only ever not supported one manager at the start of his tenure. I knew he was bad for the club and I said why. I will back the next one whoever he may be - unless Its Moyes or Benitez. Because I also think those two would be bad for the club
I had hoped that the disappointment and constant feeling of being wrong may have made you aware of the difference between being positive and supporting dross. Unfortunately I have been proved wrong about that too.
I expect you to continue hammering the players and anybody who rightly questions the manager I expect you to do it in the name of positivity.
You demonstrate a laughable level of double standards when you accuse others of pre judging. especially after you have only just dismissed Duncan Ferguson out of hand when some are proposing him.
Nothing wrong with dismissing DF, If that's how you feel, but please, spare me the hypocrisy.
551 Posted 14/06/2021 at 12:50:01
I was very critical of Ancelotti, however I believe that all managers need at least a couple of seasons so I would have also given him another 12 months.
These managers are highly paid and are so called experts in their profession. If the underperform they should not be exempt from criticism.
Take Jordan Pickford. 12 months ago he was receiving a lot of criticism, he received virtually none in the last 6 months because of his marked improvements.
Managers need to be held to account for their underperformance, this does not necessarily mean they should be sacked straight away.
552 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:02:18
"ColinI have only ever not supported one manager at the start of his tenure. I knew he was bad for the club and I said why."
Out of interest, I cant remember what you posted at the start to say why he would be bad for the club.
I would be interested in reading that.
Can you send a link please.
553 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:12:45
I would back Duncan to the hilt if hes named manager as I will Nuno, Potter or whoever is appointed. Duncan would be a big risk once he comes up against the big boys. Enthusiasm, passion and finger pointing wont be enough as former players lampard, shearer, keegan, Pearce etc… have found out.
I am, as you say, constantly disappointed with all the managers weve suffered under in recent years and the dross theyve played. Im equally disappointed in the shitty attitude shown by the players. Duncan has been part of this shitshow for some time now, hes coached these players so no, he doesnt escape my criticism.
554 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:17:56
555 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:18:11
Martin (549), I think Nuno is still on the verge of signing because the final choice has not yet been decided, in my opinion.
556 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:26:59
Two days after the Coventry game we went to St. Andrews and won 2-0. Then the following weekend we went to Victoria Ground for an FA Cup 3rd round and won 2-0, and then the following week for a league game which we drew 1-1.
Then there was the Oxford match
After that we beat Spurs at home, beat Oxford in the replay, and apart from losing a League Cup Semifinal at Villa but went through on aggregate, we went 18 games unbeaten.
But we all think it was that one misplaced back pass that turned it all around. I am not convinced.
I remember Sir Phil saying he meant it when he gave Howard the vote of confidence and maybe that is it. We see one game (or one goal given the tongue in cheek comments last night about Dumfries) but I think the boardroom tend to look at direction of travel. On that basis, Howard would not have been sacked even if we lost at Oxford.
557 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:28:04
558 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:43:39
559 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:48:50
I don't agree with what you say, but I have no trouble at all respecting it.
560 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:56:01
All we can do is await the arrival of the new manager, whoever he is, and offer him support from Day 1. I have my own opinions of Duncan's ability to manage Everton: passion will only take you so far... Would we actually appoint a manager who had only a 25% win rate? That's what Duncan had! I know it was only over 4 games but that shows how opinions can be formed!
I actually want Duncan as manager in the future, but he must go elsewhere and cut his teeth with another club. Why should he not have to do that? Gerrard, Lampard and even the prodigal son, Rooney, have taken up the challenge...
Please let's move on from all things Ancelotti as I am sure he ain't giving us a second thought!!!
561 Posted 14/06/2021 at 13:59:06
It's been less than a month since the Italian ditched us, so opinions on his tenure are still valid. Remember, it is a little over 8 years since Moyes left and we still see plenty of debate about his tenure.
562 Posted 14/06/2021 at 14:08:25
563 Posted 14/06/2021 at 14:12:09
I didnt agree, didnt understand the moaning because I thought if hes at the World Cup, then he must be concentrating on football… But I think Darren, was proven right, because Everton got off to a bad start, and looking back, Id say it was because Roberto Martinez, had taken his eye off the ball, and his Everton reign was never the same again imo.
Im not saying I agree with his style, but he always backs up his argument thoroughly, and has always been right about previous Everton managers, so maybe he should have been in the interviews instead of Kenwright!
Football is life and life is full of irony. Ive heard this Kia J, is fuming now that Nuno is getting the job, reckons hes done himself out of loads of future work, because hes linked to Mendes. Honestly! Whilst us lunatics argue, these fellas are making fortunes, because its no longer a sport its a f…ing business, and nothing more.
564 Posted 14/06/2021 at 14:26:49
565 Posted 14/06/2021 at 15:03:27
You are right about the turnaround in 1984 it wasnt the Oxford game as oft gets quoted that was the pivotal moment but the games at St. Andrews and the Victoria ground in the first week of January. Had we lost either or both of them
It could have been all over for HK.
I was at both games, two goals in the last minute
by Gary Stevens and Andy King (?) at St. Andrews. What a mob BCFC were Mick Harford, Noel Blake, PVDH, that nutter Hopkins and Billy Wright as well. Any of them could cause a ruck in an empty room can you imagine that lot playing today? The atmosphere at Stoke the following Saturday was one of the best I can remember following Everton away.
566 Posted 14/06/2021 at 15:07:03
567 Posted 14/06/2021 at 15:13:18
568 Posted 14/06/2021 at 15:20:28
I'm wrong more than anyone else I know, You may be right about the moaning old git though.
The thing is. I do give a lot of thought to what I post about Managers.
As it happened my heart leapt when Carlo's name was first mentioned, but It was a slow night at work and I spent virtually all of it researching him. I didnt need to dwell too much on his distant past. We all knew about that. I concentrated on his recent past and alarm bells started ringing loud and clear. I immediately penned an article voicing those concerns.
For me Allardyce was far too negative. I would deffo have let Rhino finish the season. Silva was a bit of an idealist who didnt understand why his stars would not line up for him, but it was Koeman and Martinez who angered me most. Martinez spent far too much time cultivating his own image and Koeman spent far too much time on the golf course.
All I want is an ambitious manager who will dedicate himself to the job as much as a fan would.
I don't believe it takes two seasons to see if a manager is prepared to give body and soul to the job. The writing appears on the wall much sooner than that.
I think the guy who said its time to stop talking about Carlo is probably right, but we are in a kind of frustrated limbo here. We want the board to take their time to get it right...but we want them to hurry up about it.
I will be praying that Whoever gets the gig can bring us good football and trophies. but there can be no half measures or easy routes if he is to be successful. the road road back is too long and arduous
Body and soul.. Not much to ask for.. is it ?
569 Posted 14/06/2021 at 16:16:41
Most fans havent got a clear picture of who they want, but I think most fans definitely know who they dont want, so if the new Everton manager doesnt make a decent start, then his starting position might just destroy him?
Im warming to Nuno, but I know loads of fans dont fucking want him, and maybe Silva was an idealist Darren, (I thought he was let down by Brands, then sulked instead of thinking things through, and becoming more pragmatic) but a lot of fans never wanted him, and didnt take long to voice their displeasure, so if his compatriot is to get the job, its imperative that he gets off to a decent start, such is the anguish and frustration amongst a lot of Evertonians right now.
570 Posted 14/06/2021 at 16:31:42
571 Posted 14/06/2021 at 16:38:34
I think it might be a ledge rather than a verge and the suits have spent all weekend trying to talk him down. I can't ever remember so many Evertonians being so pessimistic about the appointment of a new manager, but I suppose the last five years has taken its toll.
572 Posted 14/06/2021 at 16:41:32
573 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:04:06
Either way an indictment of the last season comes as a package and we haven't even untied the fucking bow before another soap opera begins.
574 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:22:01
A PL job is not for a first timer. I suppose Arteta bucks the trend but he spent several years with Pep.
575 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:22:13
Whereas, those that take any old rubbish without question are proper Supporters.
Get over yourselves.
576 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:28:56
577 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:38:45
578 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:40:28
Most fans havent got a clear picture of who they want, but I think most fans definitely know who they dont want,
Hit the nail on the head there mate. I only knew, like someone posted earlier (was it Darren) that I definitely didn't want the FSW or TGT.
Beyond that there's no manager that's available to us who I've got a clue about whether he'll be successful or not.
It's obviously not down to past achievements as we learned last season. While on that (touchy) subject I wonder why alarm bells didn't immediately ring when Ancelotti wanted a clause that would let him leave if a CL club came in for him.
Wonder how he'd have felt if the club said we want a clause that if you finish below 8th we can pump you with no compo.
We'll never know, but I hope the club has learned that if ANY manager wants that sort of clause, they thank him for his time and advise him to watch the door doesn't bang him in the arse on his way out.
I had someone round the house this morning to price a job for me, we spent three or four minutes on the job, and three quarters of an hour on Everton and he was the same, didn't have a clue who he had any confidence in (managerwise) to do the business at the club.
I HAVE had a brainwave though. Gonna pay for my season ticket renewal with my credit card so that I can claim back the cost should the service be not as advertised!
579 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:42:26
580 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:45:34
581 Posted 14/06/2021 at 17:54:09
582 Posted 14/06/2021 at 18:02:46
At the start of this I said I was going to avoid the speculation and wait and see what the club decided. I'm guessing that Iasted about 58 minutes.
I eventually started having a few (unrealistic) opinions about who I would like, but you're right, I'm more certain of who I wouldn't want than who I do. And a lot of those I would rather swerve appear to be on the club's shortlist.
Tony, I'll take the boring title off you. Those who do read my ramblings know that even my dogs are fed up of me and this now.
583 Posted 14/06/2021 at 18:13:11
I was enthralled.
584 Posted 14/06/2021 at 18:34:14
585 Posted 14/06/2021 at 18:39:44
586 Posted 14/06/2021 at 18:46:35
Do you actually think that there is one supporter on here who will " take any old rubbish without question"?
Ranting on a website is good for the soul. It doesn't mean you see what no one else does. It doesn't mean that there are "happy clappers" who just don't get it. We all get it!!! We really fucking do.
587 Posted 14/06/2021 at 18:46:50
588 Posted 14/06/2021 at 18:51:24
I think you have always wanted to see a united Evertonia...It's never going to happen. We may have united in our celebrations for wins like the one at Anfield for one day, but until we have a team which wins trophies. Unity is out of the window.
I have always maintained that TW represents a pretty accurate barometer of the feeling among Evertonians, but Carlo's tenure changed all that. It got particularly nasty on here and the shouting down and the vicious abuse - particularly aimed at Ian Edwards was just stomach churning
I posted an article on the eve of Carlo's appointment. One which really outlined my fears. The majority of responses agreed with the article. The fears were proven to be well founded and they were shared by a lot of people...but those people have kinda drifted. Every thread was dominated by the same 8-10 people hunting down all alternative opinion angrily dismissing it as negative whilst proclaiming themselves positive - Remember 150 posts from two people on one thread ?..
This is an opportunity to change the dynamics on TW, but I don't believe it will happen. I suspect there will remain a pack of about ten and I believe they will all go in the same direction whether that be for the new manager or agin.
589 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:03:43
Im aware that Evertonians will not unite until weve got a chance of success, but Im also aware that when Evertonians do unite, they are a very, very powerful force, and this is what we all want for Everton FC, at the end of the day, (to become a force again) and sometimes I wish more Evertonians realised how fucking powerful we are, when we unite.
590 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:20:39
I look forward to meeting you and your dad and we can at least unite over a bevy. Obviously we would have to bow to seniority and let him buy the first round
You are right. I don't know who I want as Manager. I was very impressed with Lyndons compelling case, but that doesnt seems to be likely now.
For once I am going to listen to Ian Horan. Carlo's gone - New Chapter
591 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:27:18
I do think that there are also what appear to be some seemingly professional ToffeeWebers, over every thread with a collective agenda, encouraging one another with " knowing" comments. You know what, that is exactly what I did twenty
years ago on here.
I was one of the original MOB and I think it is safe to say that no one has ever received more abuse on ToffeeWeb than I did then. Brendan McLaughlin, for whom I have the utmost respect, crossed swords with me very often then, I guess we have both become mature and reflective commentators!!
They were, in my view, great days when the site really was not for the faint of heart.
Frankly, ToffeeWeb is better now. Effectively patrolled by Michael and Lyndon. The dynamics absolutely do not need changed.
I can say twenty years on, that there is not a single blue on here that I would not have a pint with. I have met some of my best friends through this site. It has been an utterly positive part of my life.
592 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:28:30
Another statement that sums up the sentiment. In broad agreement with Darren's past manager assessments @568.
Similar views from me. Hugely concerned when we appointed Martinez, pleasantly surprised and then those initial fears home to roost. I was admittedly blinded by my memories of Koeman the player rather than Koeman the manager. But I did have concern as the warning signs were there when he appeared to take some convincing (ring any alarm bells now???).
Allardyce; I won't go there. Didn't want him at all. Silva; had we not learned our lesson from Martinez? And Ancelotti. I did have high hopes. In hindsight, I wonder how early his head was turned from the "unexpected opportunity". Got us within a game of Europe and I hoped for squad investment in the summer to improve us on the pitch. But it should never have come down to the last game.
And yes, those are the past managers. I'm looking forward, but at the moment with a bit of trepidation as much as I want to be positive.
593 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:32:37
But I think whatever I think of certain players or certain managers, matters not a jot to those in charge, so all I can do is to try and support whoever gets the job otherwise whats the point of me buying a season ticket and going the game.
594 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:36:04
595 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:38:19
596 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:48:14
Walsh was out of his depth, whilst Koeman, just about put his toes in the water, and I think this was the start of our struggles, because its been a really frustrating and boring five years, since the Dutchman who didnt even really want the job, took over.
Maybe after the frustration of this summer, Everton can finally find a man who can slowly take us forwards, although I have to admit that we have always been more of a Phoenix from the flames type of football club, and after saying that, its quite possible Im on the verge of a nervous breakdown!
597 Posted 14/06/2021 at 19:53:29
598 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:04:24
Of all of them, the most disappointing for me, because it felt like he took the job without really wanting it in the first place.
599 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:12:16
That said, when you do as many others do and confine your posts to the club you're readable IMHO, and I've said so to you, on here. We share, for example, huge disdain for Kenwright and the effect he's had on the club we both support, yet you adore all the ex-player coaches the cheap-skate employed. Hmm?
On USMFF I've no idea what goes on there, as you say, but I'm one of many who's asked that question with huge regularity as the basics go missing in matches. To me it's therefore fair to ask just what the coaches do.
And on Ferguson, quite apart from his disgusting behaviour as a player and his appalling attitude to us, Everton, in that time (especially galling since his skill-set was so immense when he could be arsed, which wasn't often), he's now 50 next up. Contrast with coaches ambitious for management, such as Neil Critchley now at Blackpool. He's 42, and was a youth coach for Liverpool for 7 years - that's it.
USMFF is a very very comfy place to "work" it seems to me, and big changes are way overdue.
600 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:32:00
All in all a rabid blue which, end of the day, is the main thing.
He has a lot more support from people on here than he realises.
601 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:37:52
Personally, I agree with Ian Horan. I can't be bothered to talk about Carlo any more. Even less so than Moyes, because Moyes was around for much longer, and had more interesting highs and lows. Although, I am not interested in revisiting Moyes either especially since his spectre has been removed with the new WHU. I thought Carlo could make an impact but ultimately he lasted a little longer than Sam, and buggered off. Next.
602 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:41:16
It might be time-if hes not given the job- to encourage Ferguson to test himself elsewhere
At the same time possibly Unsworth should be given the opportunity to try something new
For all the money pumped into the Finch Farm young kids set up I really dont see much of it progressing to the first team
I certainly dont class present regulars DCL and Holgate as products of our system
603 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:43:15
604 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:50:32
Too bad the club didn't pay Schneiderlin with a credit card.
605 Posted 14/06/2021 at 20:56:09
If Nuno is to be our manager, not my choice, but I'll support him 100%
and give him a chance, not hung drawn and quartered before he even puts pen to paper.
606 Posted 14/06/2021 at 21:06:15
But... if a fool and his money are soon parted, its definitely now time for Farhad Moshiri to learn
607 Posted 14/06/2021 at 21:18:04
608 Posted 14/06/2021 at 21:30:33
Funnily enough I saw an article on Schneid earlier. 35 games for Nice last year, 11 yellows, 1 red, 0 goals, 0 assists. Some Rolls Royce.
609 Posted 14/06/2021 at 21:43:22
And Dazza (#603), given that you correctly say you never engage with me, just how do account for the way you say I "bleat about the way you speak to me"?
Ludicrous logic - risible reaction, as ever.
610 Posted 14/06/2021 at 21:56:43
611 Posted 14/06/2021 at 22:05:05
612 Posted 14/06/2021 at 22:47:46
613 Posted 14/06/2021 at 22:54:32
614 Posted 14/06/2021 at 23:45:01
Heart & soul for the club? I have just finished reading an article about Bielsa in the Athletic. The man had a bed and a kitchen installed at the Leeds training ground. There is no team fitter than his in the premiership. He has brought young players on in leaps and bound - Phillips.
I reckon he will have them in the top six next season.
How could Leeds get it so right and us get it so wrong.
We need a fanatic like that - are there any more like him knocking about?
615 Posted 14/06/2021 at 23:56:59
A great player, whom never lost the belief and spirit he had as part of the Holy Trinity, and took that into being a brilliant coach at Everton.
The signed picture of the trio, I have when we done the RS at their place in the Cup, in March 1967, is amongst my most prized possessions.
Colin and the back room staff brought in made a hell of a difference and brought the best out of Howard in the 1983-1987 period.
Everton genuinely had a swagger for 4 years, theyve never got close to having since.
So forgetting the past and Great memories but embracing Evertons future.
But it would be good to know sooner than later whom the new manager is.
Its a heist or its getting the legal third, fourth and fifth degree, by Evertons lawyers, after the Italian Job!
Lets hope so, if the case.
616 Posted 15/06/2021 at 01:51:49
Bielsa is a teacher and innovator without peer, a true Einstein of the game. He is also a prickly and sometimes weird old crank with a history of triggering ugly confrontations with his bosses. Three years in the same job is an eternity for this guy, and the clock is ticking.
As to Leeds getting it right, they took a huge risk in the spring of 2018 by hiring Bielsa in the wake of three ugly divorces from Marseilles, Lazio and Lille. No Prem club, let alone conservative Everton, was willing to gamble on The Madman at that time, and Leeds' decision may have been based more on desperation than perspicacity. However, I will readily grant you that our own history would have been very different had we hired Bielsa back then instead of Setpiece Suicide Silva.
617 Posted 15/06/2021 at 03:07:39
I could see Leeds making a top six push next season, but I could just as easily see it all unraveling and Bielsa calling it quits by Christmas. There's just no way to know.
618 Posted 15/06/2021 at 03:40:03
Despite all our debates on the merits of Nuno and other candidates, I just hope Brands is being left alone to run a proper recruitment campaign.
619 Posted 15/06/2021 at 04:30:01
Koeman was a disaster (a completely wrong fit for Everton), Marco wasn't up to it, and Sam, well apart from playing safety first football, he was never going to be accepted by the fan base.
So I think it is reasonable to say that Farhad Moshiri (who I admire for his nerves of steel) and his advisors (whoever they are) have gotten it spectacularly wrong when it comes to picking a manager that suits the club.
One thing I would be sure of if I was Farhad Moshiri, if he is able to get a manager who can get the team as fit as Bielsa has leads, and win the respect of the players, which Bielsa has achieved at Leeds, then there is no way he will have to worry about getting relegated.
Bill - it went spectacularly wrong with Ancelloti - he ditched us and had the football world sniggering at us. That has wound me right up.
If I was Farhad and could find Bielsa Mk2 I would roll the dice again and tell Brands to get him who he wants and tell the rest of them to stay right out of it.
If it went pear shaped he can always hire someone else - that's what we have been doing for the past five years.
One thing I am sure of - if the new manager can get those players putting in as much effort as those Leeds players have for Bielsa that would have Goodison rocking again.
If it is Nuno I hope he can at least do that.
620 Posted 15/06/2021 at 04:42:39
The term "If the cap fits" would apply to a lot of my posts.
I hardly ever engage with people who devote their time giving unquestioning loyalty to a hired hand in the name of positivity. I think these people are everything that is wrong with this club, I'm no shrinking violet and I wont take their often personal attacks lying down. So I offer "if the cap fits" responses.
If the cap does fit, then they are going to take it personally. That is why so many think they have been engaged in imaginary arguments with me
What I say is tame. Harmless, if you are offended by terms like "Happy clapper" should you really be posting on a footy forum ?
I don't think any of Ancelotti's critics were prepared to sink as low as those who abused Ian so badly on the forum that day. Words like prick, c**t, gobshite, twat were hurled. Thats not just wrong. It's deeply deeply personal and, for me at least, Its cowardly.
Heres the thing; You come on accusing the guy of being negative, but is he really ? or was he just plain right ?
I saw the things he was saying most weeks and I would use other adjectives. I would describe his comments as spot on, Irrefutable.. incontrovertible...He was saying what he saw, He was saying what we all saw. Only he was prepared to say that the king was in the altogether.
Here was a world champion openly taking the piss out of every Evertonian by sending international footballers to spoil every game.. and people were applauding. Excusing. They were telling us how grateful they were and that we should all feel blessed that he was here...In the name of all that is good, Christy. Please tell me how that can be construed as positive...Nobody else can.
Positive is as positive does. Positive people don't need to keep calling themselves positive. Their actions and words do that. The minute I hear somebody describe themselves as "positive" I switch off - Dont tell me, show me.
There are no winners when an Everton manager fails. Not in here anyway, but there are two things that stick out to me in this season long debate. Ian Edwards called it right from the get go and his detractors got it unequivocally wrong.
"Self proclaimed positives" Those who applaud and excuse mediocrity I genuinely belief they will be the demise of this club. They are a living legacy of Kenwright's expectation management.
621 Posted 15/06/2021 at 05:13:35
So I'll hold out hope he can do the same thing at Goodison.
622 Posted 15/06/2021 at 05:58:10
He wasn't, he resigned, as decisions, like cashing in on players against his will, coupled with the unfortunate injuries meant he was dealt an almost no-win set of cards. I always remember when I was at secondary school a respected teacher, saying 'good news will travel' but, 'bad news will travel even faster'! It wasn't till later in life I realised the wisdom and truth in his words.
It's as if people relish the negatives rather than concentrating on the positives, I'm sure there must be a Freudian explanation of why this is so, but nevertheless it is virtually a fact of life. I know at Everton we have been starved of success for far too long now, but success has to start with positivity, and a pinch of luck too, which hitherto has always seemed to desert us.
623 Posted 15/06/2021 at 05:59:10
624 Posted 15/06/2021 at 06:28:34
You are so busy insulting fellow Evertonians that you rarely stay on topic.You then have the nerve to accuse others of being personally "rude" to poor slighted Darren. I NEVER use expletives when I post so I will just use the term "Sad Sack"
The article was about appointing a new manager. EVERY person has the ToffeeWeb right to give their opinion and while we may have widely ranging opinions they are ALL valid. Nobody is satisfied with mediocrity and poor results, but you have taken upon yourself to divide Evertonians by your senseless analogies and by creating just TWO distinct groups (1) Those who agree with Darren and (2) Those who don't. There are such things as intelligent discussions, and they can become heated, but you immediately climb on your Charger and create a fetid atmosphere.
There are also a number of posters who have basically said, " Hey guys ease up we are all on the same team" You talk about the hat fitting, yours is obviously over your ears. You are your own self declared "Champion", but of WHAT ? I have been around for over eighty years and have little time for either physical or verbal bullies.There are MANY on here who seriously suggest that you should be ignored and I held off until I read (620). I am weak and I just could not hold back.
625 Posted 15/06/2021 at 07:22:13
626 Posted 15/06/2021 at 08:03:19
He slights folk who contend themselves as "positive" in attitude but is bizarrely bereft of personal insight when it comes to the tsunami of negativity/bile he delivers to those Evertonians with whom he merely disagrees.
And as for his comment on those he deems to be blindly positive; "they are a living legacy of Kenwright's expectation management", well, wow, this is from the guy who extols the virtues of every ex-player coach Kenwright's ever appointed! (He remains silent on such paradoxes of course).
Anyway, hopefully Kenwright has zilch to do with the selection of the next manager. We need full unity between Brands and the next guy and if the delay (if it is a delay!) is caused by the need to fashion a working relationship before a contract is signed I can live with that with a positive outlook.
If that doesn't upset anyone of course!
627 Posted 15/06/2021 at 08:06:10
628 Posted 15/06/2021 at 08:08:02
Like Mike Gaynes above, I have been impressed with the Wolves team over the last few years. They have played some good football and have some cracking players in their ranks. To lose his main scorer and creative player(Jota) gave him an uphill task. I think it shows that quality in the squad is a must to compete with the big boys. It is no coincidence that Leicester have dropped-off the pace two seasons on the trot. Thier squad is just too small to maintain that intensity over a long season.
As for Nuno -he will surely give us better football to watch than the great Ancelotti.
629 Posted 15/06/2021 at 08:31:52
630 Posted 15/06/2021 at 08:34:43
Going back to the past, I remember Everton beating Southampton on the day of the Grand National in 1984, and it was a day I noticed that the crowd was really different, for the first time in my life.
Scousers have always been funny, but the aggressive banter that seemed to be a second nature to most Evertonians had gone, and it had been replaced by people laughing and smiling at each other. It was a brilliant feeling, probably stemming from the fact that every single person in the ground knew that Everton had finally become a very good team once again, and Goodison Pk, became the happiest place in the city.
It still amazes me to this day that Evertons crowd was heard by Picton Clock, when they beat Bayern Munich, so that very clever teacher was only right 99% of the time Derek, sometimes good news travels fast, singing “WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED!”
631 Posted 15/06/2021 at 08:35:53
"hey girl, ive got them at it again"
632 Posted 15/06/2021 at 08:55:02
To be honest Derek Im not entirely sure why he resigned?
However, unless youre City, Utd or the RS every Clubs managers players are for sale, look at Kane at Spurs
Injuries and squad sizes and funds are a restriction at all Clubs
If, as you mention, Nuno resigned because of players being sold and injuries, well hell never last anywhere
Has to be something more
633 Posted 15/06/2021 at 09:04:34
It was during Moyes time that I started reading ToffeeWeb and I have got as many wrong as right – I did not support the hiring of Martinez, Silva and Allardyce but supported the hiring of Koeman and Ancelotti. For each hire, I put a name forward as my preferred choice. It stimulates debate and challenge – Mike Gaynes told me I was in dream land to put Conte's name forward and he's probably right! But, that is who I think is needed to shake the complacency and mediocrity out of this club.
Ian Edwards has been ducking and diving to avoid putting a name forward as manager and is already gunning for Espirito Santo before he has even been confirmed as manager. I am equally underwhelmed by Nuno but, for goodness sake, give him a chance if he is hired. Ian should put forward a constructive case for his preferred candidate. Darren supports giving Duncan Ferguson a chance, which is a valid point of view.
Lastly, let's stop using tired phrases. 'Happy clapper' doesn't bother me in the slightest as I am an optimist. But it is getting a bit old and boring – come up with something new at least! Interestingly, when I countered with the phrase 'nappy clapper' it wasn't well-received at all. Being a scouser, one thing I have always admired about us is that we can dish it out as well as take it?
634 Posted 15/06/2021 at 09:26:21
Now it seems that its all over bar the shouting and Nuno...as far as we know - Is the man.
But football is - and Managers are, a transient thing, a moveable feast and 4yrs is a lifetime.
So Brands or whoever, needs to be on the look out for the Bielsa Mk II replacement now.
But I fear that sort of forward thinking is beyond most clubs, let alone ours.
Edit; they buy young players 'for the future' so go out and find this Bielsa Mk II.
Find him, hire him - or her, let him run the PL2 Team.
Tell this young coach - this 'one for the future' exactly what we want of him Re fitness, manner of play, Intensity etc...let him have a 'philosophy' on his own dime.
We pay you to do A,B, C,D...get them lazy overpaid wasters up them sandhills.
635 Posted 15/06/2021 at 09:26:37
“Here you go, Nuno, heres your P45, now fuck off, oh but you can still be in charge for the last few games”. I doubt he did it for nothing, out of the kindness of his heart, or as a goodwill gesture.
636 Posted 15/06/2021 at 09:49:20
In the meantime lets keep a look out for Bielsa MKll because passion, plotting, and commitment can take you a long way in football and in life - and I do like a nutter - they have a certain je ne sais quoi !!
Edit : the Sandhills - now your talking - that would sort them out.
637 Posted 15/06/2021 at 09:56:40
I think maybe they announced that he would be leaving a few weeks before the season ended, but maybe he had agreed with the club to stay till the end of the season. I know these things take time but seeing as it was reported that Moshiri spoke to his agent George Mendes well over a week ago I thought if he is to be our next manager we would have got an agreement by now. I know Mike Gaynes quite rightly says Wolves looked an exciting team when they got promoted and they did. But so did Chris Wilders Sheffield on their first season back, although to be fair Wolves had 2 or 3 good seasons after that.
638 Posted 15/06/2021 at 10:20:41
For what its worth I was very happy we got Ancelotti as manager and thought it was the right appointment at the time - a serial winner etc etc. I dont know whether you can call his time at Everton a failure simply as he decided not to continue with the job so hard to assess. I actually dont think it was a success either and was disappointed with many aspects, but I would like to have seen how this coming season developed with a few new signings. I do however agree with hindsight that he was not the right appointment, but was I pleased we got him - yes. Maybe I was naive but all my fellow Blue family and friends seemed to be happy too so I wasnt alone. Would he have been a success had he stayed - nobody can say for sure. I hope that doesnt sound contradictory, but just trying to outline my take on it.
What we also dont know for sure is what Ancelotti made of us behind the scenes and how this impacted on his motivation to continue? We cant ignore that the club (from a footballing perspective) isnt a well ran institution. Many have mentioned here that Moshiri doesnt know what hes doing, and we also have Kenwright with his old boys club, plus Brands with what seems like a very unclear remit - so this absolutely must be factored in too when discussing the success or failure of Ancellotti, and may go some way to explain previous managerial failings since Moshiri.
639 Posted 15/06/2021 at 10:33:36
640 Posted 15/06/2021 at 10:39:24
641 Posted 15/06/2021 at 10:45:07
Blues chiefs are refusing to rush to the decision to appoint a new boss even though the Portuguese appeared to be closing in on a deal over the weekend."
Echo just now.
642 Posted 15/06/2021 at 10:50:18
643 Posted 15/06/2021 at 11:18:47
644 Posted 15/06/2021 at 11:27:52
It's surely going to be Rafa. He'll sign like a shot. I'm happy if so.
645 Posted 15/06/2021 at 11:29:25
Not sure I agree with you about the need to name your choice of manager. As many have stated the obvious: it's not our choice, we have zero influence on the outcome, it's a complete waste of time and effort, so we see no point in playing that game.
Worse, I think the call is made as part of a tactic to neutralize the criticism put forward by some in wide anticipation of the upcoming appointment. If you can't come up with an alternative, and can't be supportive of the impending arrival, then you fail on two important counts as a supporter and anything else you might say about his likely qualities as new Everton manager can therefore be safely disregarded... Cancel culture at its best.
Equally this requirement that we buy into a honeymoon period where we must all 'get behind' the new manager... Just when did this bit of nonsense get written into the "Good Everton Supporter" Charter that we must all now abide by?
Sorry, but I think many of us who have large misgivings about this unimaginative and retrograde appointment of a mid-table manager will continue to voice our opinions on him. Since we are unlikely to stop what now seems inevitable, I expect we will assess his performance as manager based on how he performs, game by game, rather than banking everything on this increasingly pathetic Everton trait of "Hope Eternal" or such quasi-religious superstitions.
646 Posted 15/06/2021 at 11:42:07
I think what you say about managers not needing a lot of time is wrong for a club like Everton now, though, Michael, because whoever gets the job will have a squad of players put together over the last four years by three different managers, and have also been nothing better than mid-table in all that time.
We haven't won a trophy for 26 years now so, whilst I understand the anguish and the frustration, surely a manager coming into a squad where possibly only half the players are good enough to take us forwards needs a little bit of time?
647 Posted 15/06/2021 at 11:54:37
However if a certain name is mentioned then of course its up to debate good or bad
Thing is some just condemn every name mentioned as shite!
Nuno, dont want him
Conte, dont want him
Etc etc etc
Which in itself is fair enough but surely there has to be someone who has a name and for whatever reason is acceptable to them
648 Posted 15/06/2021 at 11:55:26
Being a football fan is nothing like what it used to be when the people on the pitch were a lot more like you and me than they are today.
649 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:01:53
No settling in period, no time to assess the disjointed squad.
Fuck all allowance for you Nuno, Rafa, Duncan.
This is Everton. We demand a trophy in your first season.
650 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:11:24
I think there is a broad diversity among the crowd – kinda flies right in the face of your 'united club' mantra, sorry! I'm happy to try to embrace the wide range of individual opinions – as long as that is all they are. It's when fans want to dictate the behaviour of other fans that I get my back up. No booing of players, no booing of talking the knee, no booing of the new manager... No, you do what you like if it's what you believe... up to but not beyond the point of giving real abuse.
And of course it's drawing that line which is difficult. If I boo taking the knee, I am giving offense to someone who then feels compelled to call me a racist. If I want to assess the manager on a game-by-game basis, then I am not "giving him time".
There you're buying in, I think, to another totally flawed belief that you must wait a certain period before you can offer up an opinion – like Danny claiming time and again he was not going to assess Ancelotti until the end of the season, then failing to do so after he had filled up threads with comment after comment on all things Everton, including plenty about Ancelotti, all the way through the season.
I think it's natural, understandable and fully defensible that we at least judge things on a game-by-game basis. That is the main evidence we have (notwithstanding the utter bollocks Jerome keeps posting about what is going on in deepest darkest Finch Farm!) of how the manager's objectives and principles are being put into practice where it matters – on the field of play.
On that basis, and with no games on which to judge things yet until August, you can't really blame people looking back at how Nuno got on in his last swath of games, and making judgments about his suitability as Everton manager based on that record. And you know what? It is singularly unimpressive.
On your point about players not being good enough, I may react to the "Hope Eternal" mob and their prayer wheels, but I do cherish this feeble expectation that a new manager will at least make the effort to get the best out of the players he inherits. Something Carlo Ancelotti increasingly failed to do... to the point where everyone now seems to believe that at least half our team of vastly overpaid stars are basically useless – or (back to Jerome again) are part of a devilish conspiracy to get shut of the manager because they don't want him having too much power over them!!! Have you ever heard of anything quite so ridiculous?
651 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:18:54
652 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:18:54
Nuno raised an ailing football institution from the depths something very few managers ever do and THE basic requirement of this club.
That record is exactly what we want.
653 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:27:33
Everton has not had the same amount of 'good fortune' over the years as other clubs such as United and Liverpool and even City when they won their first title, when overcoming QPR in that final day drama.
Excuses are made by teams/clubs that fail, but some Evertonians by and large don't seem to accept that it is the efforts and quality of the people employed at the club in whatever roles that truly determine the outcome of events good or bad, not some unseen supernatural force.
I don't know whether this fatalistic attitude has always been a central part of Everton, but it's helped the club to make some really bad calls on the sales of players and the appointment of managers. without too much negative feedback from the fans, not just in the Moshiri era but throughout the last fifty years.
Luck does of course play a part in success and failure, but it only plays a very small part, if you're a bad team that escapes relegation due to a Barry Horne or Graham Stuart moment then overall the team must have just about deserved to stay up, likewise if you get the bounce of the ball in an important league game that gives your team the points and you go on to win the title, those points obviously helped but overall you must have been the best side and deserved to be champions.
We need to applaud those who bring success and support those who try their best, we mustn't accept that events are somehow pre-ordained as that to me seems to undermine the whole value of the human endeavor that goes into a sporting contest in their quest to achieve success.
It'll be alright on the night is fine for the theatre as there's a script to guide the players, sport is a contest and it's up to the players to perform well and it will be their ability and determination which will ultimately decide the outcome of the encounter.
654 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:38:50
I have had an idea – if we can't have him let's get his apprentice.
Bit of a jump from my earlier post about us needing an English manager – but we are on ToffeeWeb.
655 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:40:28
656 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:43:21
So many matchday blues had just come through the war. People were working and we had decent ordinary pubs. Not everyone had TV and computers. Internet and social media had never been thought of.
We were in a little bubble of our own, knew nothing about signings until they happened, and no idea about other teams day-to-day stuff. Once all this went and we started getting what we have today, society changed.
Instead of going to a caravan in Rhyl for a week, we now go to Dubai. The foreign players came here, fucking diving all over the place. Gabriel, Morrissey… even Reid, would never get a game now.
The supporters nowadays see a piss-poor weak tackle and scream for the guy to get sent off. Everything is under the microscope. People can't think anymore. We have lines on the telly to see if someones offside. If you don't take the knee, you are automatically a racist.
No, it's not Evertonians, Tony, it's society, I think.
657 Posted 15/06/2021 at 12:55:39
658 Posted 15/06/2021 at 13:07:10
If negotiations are so full of details and caveats with NES and not straight forward as with a manager who is keen to join us and accept our terms, then do we really want him?
659 Posted 15/06/2021 at 13:31:00
660 Posted 15/06/2021 at 13:38:22
Michael, I don't think any reasonable minded Evertonian wants to stifle criticism or dictate the behaviour of of other fans (wait a minute, isn't this what our own resident narcissist tries to do all the time with his labelling of "dissidents" and use of terms such as hypocrite / liar?), but it is reasonable surely that people take a balance approach when dispensing criticism.?
What s the actual value of sniping a manager from Day 1? Yes, Ancelotti may well have been unsuited to building a team from the bottom up, having only ever managed superstars and, certainly past success is no guarantee of future achievements. Equally, NES's perceived "failure" at Wolves is no real indicator of what he might achieve at Everton.
Match by match criticism certainly is valid (substitutions, tactics etc) but any new manager has to be cut some slack for an initial period surely? Otherwise, how would any of us have survived our first job?
It is not unreasonable, in my opinion, to ask a person who incessantly criticises the manager who you they would like as a replacement. Yes, we have no say in the appointment but surely you can at least state the type of manager that you would like - e.g. young / established, in-house /external, coach only, foreign / British etc?
Too many people on ToffeeWeb seem to be negative for negative's sake, which I believe can become toxic and a self-fulfilling prophesy. You simply have to have a bit of hope and optimism to get out of bed every morning!
Spot on post John Boon, by the way. Wisdom certainly does come with age.
661 Posted 15/06/2021 at 13:41:47
No way Jose. Rafa is the last person I want to see at Everton because of his style, poor signings, career decline, and the fact he seems like a bit of a dick
662 Posted 15/06/2021 at 13:48:19
663 Posted 15/06/2021 at 13:53:41
I doubt we would and if hes not first choice, you don't just look for the first man available.
664 Posted 15/06/2021 at 14:11:27
665 Posted 15/06/2021 at 14:11:38
666 Posted 15/06/2021 at 14:11:54
The atmosphere was dreadful
667 Posted 15/06/2021 at 14:12:28
Edit; You too Pete Clarke - well said.
668 Posted 15/06/2021 at 14:12:32
Ive said for many years that if you write down the pros and cons of watching Everton or football in general for that matter then the cons outnumber the pros by a long way.
Match day was always special going to Goodison at 7 or 8 years of age to watch our heroes. That for me was a fading Champion in 1970 but a champion all the same that had heart and soul. I didnt care who was manager but just loved the players and the match day experience.
As we got older and understood the game better, we knew what we wanted from the players and the club so it took on a different meaning once inside Goodison. The football wasnt always great, the stadium wasnt that great but we were there and the match day experience didnt end until 2 am in town somewhere and it was being with the lads for the whole of that day that really made it special. A proper day out where you could let loose, have a good laugh and talk about all things football.
Moving on quite a few years and far removed from Liverpool, I no longer have that match day experience nor the night out with the lads. Thats all part of life of course but the biggest problem I have is with football in general.
The game is full of millionaires who could not give a shit about the football fans and entertainment.
Most professional footballers have had the benefit of academies to teach them everything and yet a lot of them seem incapable of the basics. Definitely very little intelligence. A lot of players have no heart for the game, no will to entertain and a lot are simply falling into this modern day cheating by screaming at the slightest touch or rolling around in some childish fit and trying to get others sent off. This does my head in.
Most managers are so wrapped up in fear of defeat that they fail the players they have at their disposal by not letting them express the skills they have or are incapable of teaching new skills to players. Most simply dont have the skills for this job but get paid more than surgeons.
The games authorities are so wrapped up in having to please an audience 6 thousand miles away that they forget about the local paying public by playing games at stupid times and on any day they please. In fact the match day going supporter is irrelevant to this modern game as it moves into super high tech mode.
Talking of technology we then have VAR which has almost put the nail in the coffin of the game.
So back to Everton. We are not a very professionally run club. We hit and hope too often. Some of the worst players I have ever seen at our club have been with us in the past few years and also some of the worst managers.
Moshiri is failing. If he is wanting to buy success then he needs a streetwise right hand man and someone who knows his football otherwise we will keep on going around in circles until one day we finally fall off into the lower leagues.
I would prefer a young British manager and one who is in it for the long haul. Somebody who understands what it means to be the manager of once great club.
Either way we need a manager who is ambitious and has a good plan. Somebody who likes to play attacking football but is tactically aware and one who has luck on his side. Somebody to give us back our pride.
669 Posted 15/06/2021 at 14:47:29
a lot of truth, sadly. Futurama. For now though, there is still that beauty in the actual football on the pitch, cheating, wimping and VAR problems excepted. Plus, Everton remains in the heart, and the hope and dreams are still there.
Outside pressures/controls and the way things are going (read - being steered) is a challenge for sure. I'm glad I've lived and experienced the life I have, the football time I've lived in.
670 Posted 15/06/2021 at 14:59:54
There was always the hope that Everton would do something special in any particular season, but there was never really an expectation that they would. Perhaps, because of our lack of success for such a long period, and possibly due to our lack of truly being able to compete with our former peers the arrival of Moshiri and his wealth has raised our expectations to a level beyond realistic.
However, I don't travel up and down the country like I did in my younger days, but I can still enjoy the camaraderie of fellow blues, before, during, and after matches, regardless of how Everton performs. They can't take that away from us!
671 Posted 15/06/2021 at 15:09:11
672 Posted 15/06/2021 at 15:16:27
673 Posted 15/06/2021 at 15:30:14
Careful mate, you're the second octogenarian in two weeks to criticize Darren's remarks. It is ruining Cashew's claim that he comes on here to "learn from the elder statesman." He'll have to focus now on his other routines, saying "get paid" to every female poster and quivering from "hard men" while blaming the "happy clappers" for the time the "hard men" and a few randoms abused Ian.
674 Posted 15/06/2021 at 15:33:19
Cashew is a nut
675 Posted 15/06/2021 at 15:42:09
'He is the complete and utter dick'!
Apart from his historic connections, what has he done since, and got paid megabucks for? Assuming we relented, do you think for one moment he would study us against you know who? Where would his desire be?
I arrest my case, m'lud!
676 Posted 15/06/2021 at 15:44:16
I'd doubt any Evertonian would refuse a united fan base (would you, Michael?), especially if it was going to bring our team success? Whilst I agree that it's natural for people to criticise if they are not happy with the football they're watching, but sometimes it's a fine line, in my opinion, a very fine line really, because learning from history, most people wanted Howard Kendall gone, and he was the last manager in charge of Everton who really united the crowd.
I always say that the biggest thing about life is it's full of contradictions; whilst agreeing that life is less hard and people haven't got things as tough as it used to be, why is life is so much more dangerous nowadays?
677 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:09:28
What does it tell me? That natural talent is getting coached out of a lot of young kids nowadays, and also the ability to think for themselves. Looking in from the outside, It sometimes feels like if they havent got it in themselves to become manufactured, then theyre just not going to become footballers, because modern football has never been so rigidly structured, and its not very often you see players break rank.
Obviously just my own opinion, but how sad, I sometimes read professional footballers who say theyve been at an academy since they were seven or eight, and yet they still cant kick with two feet?
Its why it probably ends up in tears with Biesla, because people who continually strive for more, are so few and far between, even in the privileged world of football?
678 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:18:01
"Everton have approached Antonio Conte to be their new manager claim Football Insider. Farhad Moshiri is aware that negotiations with Nuno could still collapse and wants back-up options."
So we are worried that negotiations may stall with a middle of the road manager, and our "back up" plan is a guy who'd seek to be probably the highest paid manager in the world, who is known for being a big spender, and an outspoken critic of club owners.
679 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:23:55
Does that ridiculous take by the Echo insinuate that Pep would be the last resort choice for Everton? :)
680 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:39:24
681 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:39:51
682 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:40:59
683 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:45:09
684 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:46:21
685 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:46:52
686 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:50:00
I am sure many of our friends and colleagues on there will want to give feedback on the games and get your immediate responses. One or two of us often have suggestions to make.
687 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:50:01
688 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:54:12
If you thought the abuse you allegedly received on the live forum was bad, wait until you are two down at home to one of the promoted clubs:)
689 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:55:40
I wouldn't say I'm gunning for Nuno. I'm vehemently opposed to his appointment but as I said on here the day, if he gets the job he will get my full support until such time as I don't think he is taking the club forward.
As for ducking and diving I'm quite happy to say who I would like. Martinez. He got us 2 Semi finals and 72 points and never had a window from Moshiri. Had a bad season but had proved his worth and should have been given time. I wanted him gone and with hindsight I think I was wrong and it was a bad decision.
He proved he could do well and with money could do even better.
I appreciate I'll be in a monority with that view but I always am.
690 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:56:58
Will Darren be your number two? With the squad we have you may need Tony Marsh to knock them into shape.
691 Posted 15/06/2021 at 16:58:50
Moshiri might just be having a brainstorm/fart and is beginnig to see Conte as viable. Conte would be another Ancelotti and off as soon as the first big team offfers him a big budget.
These type of "Big" managers a ok for teams that have been built, like Chelski etc and already have the players to work with, but as we've just seen, Ancelotti was clueless and give in.
692 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:01:31
The way things are done at our club we might not even get Barry Fry!
693 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:01:50
694 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:03:06
I doubt very much that Mr. Hind would play second fiddle to anyone, and Mr. Marsh doesn't strike me as a guy who has physical fitness at the top of his list of priorities. Apologies to both for the use of poetic license.
695 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:04:16
696 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:09:20
We write messages for each other to read on an Everton-themed website. Each of those words has a meaning; we string them together to convey broader thoughts that go beyond the meaning of the individual words.
Perhaps if we were all 'united' in accord with your wish, we would all understand each other perfectly without your bizarre claim that what you write is not what you meant. But, if we really were 'united' (a ridiculous concept when applied to any group of people who can think for themselves), I fear there would be nothing to talk about as we'd all be on the same plane!
You associate Everton's 'united' fanbase with Everton's onfield success, going so far as to claim you can't have one without the other. But there exists no such causal linkage; it's just an invention you return to on here periodically, perhaps just to needle me!
I reject the notion because it flies in the face of human nature. Yes, perhaps for a split second after a great final victory that wins us a trophy, you could with some validity claim that the fanbase were 'united' in sheer joy and ecstasy – like we last experienced when our great former leader, David "The Messiah" Moyes won his one and only trophy for Everton in the sultry heat of Salt Lake City... What? Don't tell me you'd forgotten that auspicious and uniquely memorable occaision!
Why is life is so much more dangerous nowadays? Errm... again, I have to disagree with you. I don't think it is. But I can't be bothered to look up the statistics... oops, there I go again, being literal. When you say it's "more dangerous" to me, that's a quantifiable claim. But that's not what you mean, is it? I get the sense that with you, it's just a feeling you have that no statistics could either prove or disprove, because that's what you feel, and that's the important bit.
697 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:10:51
Christy Ring can drive the Team Bus.
698 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:20:11
Well your view might not be popular with those on TW but I agree with you. If Martinez hadnt been so stubborn and slightly adapted his tactics he may well have been successful at Everton. Regardless, his first season was the best football Everton have played since when we finished 6th under Royle and perhaps the best since the late 80s. Just my opinion of course, perhaps Nino will
be a sound appointment but Im sick of negative football.
699 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:36:14
Very rarely happens on TW.
I have seen it though.
700 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:46:22
701 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:54:24
I agree with you, it is totally right to dissect things game by game. I do, everyone does. We all do it just about every week and day. I always view it in 2 ways; the game that's just happened and the longer term view. But I'm just not one of those who is going to be calling for a managers head in October, 3 months into a season and 10 months into his tenure because I didn't like the result against Burnley and we're on a bad run. Unless there's an obvious Mike Walker scenario on the cards that is. There wasn't this season, so I was happy to wait and see.
The football in the latter part of the season was awful, and I now suspect the manager's head was gone earlier than we think. But we still had a possibility of Europe on the last day of the season, even though it shouldn't have got to that. Because of the Manager, because of the players. So I was more than content to continue to wait until the end to judge.
The crowd one is interesting. I too can only talk from personal experience. In my youth, I thought every game I attended at Goodison was electric. But I was watching a successful team play. The best in England and could have been the best in Europe in my opinion. But I always stood right in the middle of the Gwladys Street. We took our position very early before kick off, with the atmosphere building as everyone arrived.
When I recollect, back then it was mostly certain sections of the grounds I visited creating the atmosphere for most of the matches. Caveat most matches, not all. Not quite European ultra or Bundesliga style coordinated atmosphere, but in Goodison terms the Gwladys Street or corner of the Enclosure close to the away fans in the Park End was where the atmosphere was generated. You could sit in the Upper Bullens and Top Balcony and there were many more people interested in watching the football. Cheering, shouting, getting involved, yes of course.
Now, when the entire ground is up for it, it's electric and all four corners are involved. But the converse to that is when it's stale, the entire ground is stale. Probably a result of the all seater stadia we now have. Hopefully some now where I'm coming from.
That's my recollection and view.
Anyway, new manager thread. Is this Nuno thing happening? If not, we need to move on.
702 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:54:41
703 Posted 15/06/2021 at 17:59:52
Interesting that you thought I was referring to you though.
704 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:07:15
705 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:09:42
706 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:16:47
707 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:18:01
The suspense is upsetting me and the dogs.
708 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:25:44
A job as number two sounds a bit of a shit job, if you get my drift. And I wouldn't fancy Barnet - wouldn't be able to cut it.
Ian, you're actually more fun than that mate of yours!
709 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:33:34
710 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:37:14
Ring any bells?
Having said that - He drove me nuts at the end but the Martinez connection makes me support Belgium before most others ,and I do think he could have been very good for us if he had employed, or been delegated, a sound defensive coach with whom he could have worked.
711 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:43:43
I laughed out loud at your post. Its a long time since I read so much faux outrage from a man who has been addressed by anybody and accused of nothing.
Nobody accused you of being one of the abusers who who used expletives. to denigrate another poster on the LF ... You just thought that you needed to tell us you werent so you could enter the fray. If you didnt see the abuse it was vile.
Nobody insulted you. Nobody misrepresented you. but for the second time in a week you think you can come one here and make an unprovoked attack on me about something you know little about.
I told you last week about it which is what I think has gotten you all riled up to post again this week
I notice you have not once condoned any of the really cowardly vile abuse...You choose to concentrate on my "Barbed" responses. Thats you choice. knock yourself out. I don't care. But you need to see all the barbed responses rather than those of the people who you dnt agree with. .
What I will tell you is that I receive a hundred times nasty insulting comments than anybody on here (with perhaps the exception of Ian) Do you think thats a coincidence ? I ignore 99% of them because I its water off a ducks back and to be fair..some of them are funny.
What is true is that on the rare, very rare occasion I do respond to somebody, this place explodes with hypocritical faux outrage such as yours and the FFFF.
Your claim that I try split opinion into two sides made me really smile...Are you sure ? Really ? Do you think I have any influence at all over that, or the fact that there are hundreds of different opinions about everything to do with Everton.
As for dealing with Bullies...that claim rings rather hollow coming from somebody who always attacks first.
You claim you have been advised by others to ignore my. Why don't you ? I have no trouble skipping past most of yours.
712 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:53:15
John Boon the 80 year old bovver boy 😁😁
Cease with the attacks please Mr Boon.
He receives enough " nasty insulting comments"
713 Posted 15/06/2021 at 18:57:26
714 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:04:54
Oh and by the way John G. The nasty ones are generally the funny intelligent ones. You need`nt trouble yourself trying to work out if any of them came from you.
715 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:06:05
Words have failed me.
I tried to take a knee, but I toppled over.
716 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:10:20
Days gone by?
717 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:20:41
718 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:21:37
I suppose it also depends on where you live to decide if life is more dangerous now, than it was in yesteryear. I reckon there was a lot more violence years ago, especially at the match, but Id say the violence has gone up a few levels since then, and its probably a lot easier to lose your life through violence in England now.
I honestly dont needle you on purpose Michael, although I do detest a little bit of sarcasm, because youre quite good at needling people yourself!
719 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:22:18
I notice the Echo is still running pieces about what will happen when Nuno is appointed, which players he'll sign, and other such stuff. I think Nuno will be announced tomorrow.
720 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:24:47
Yes. I've been critical. Very critical. It was called for. The football was dreadful and home results poor.
If the performances are good and football entertaining then I will say so. I dearly hope I will be able to next season.
In the words of Roy Walker: say what you see.
721 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:26:09
722 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:26:29
Based on past history of the Echo Everton correspondents, the fact they are still talking about Nuno and his potential signings more than likely means he wont be coming here!
723 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:31:22
I can't disagree with you :) What must it be like to have Journalists who are in a position to have at least a modicum of reliable inside knowledge and who then transmit it to the public. Probably partly the club's fault for being a tad paranoid and partly the local paper's fault for not really being that interested in what happens at Goodison compared to other more high-profile clubs.
724 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:35:05
725 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:45:20
726 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:53:53
Ian, that's a touching bit of mutual sycophancy!
727 Posted 15/06/2021 at 19:56:12
728 Posted 15/06/2021 at 20:16:04
729 Posted 15/06/2021 at 20:19:10
730 Posted 15/06/2021 at 20:32:23
731 Posted 15/06/2021 at 20:35:55
My Dad was a journo too. Remember when they used to have correspondents? Like actual humans working for a specific publication in a specific city? I read the Daily Mirror last week and they and the Daily Mail both had an "EXCLUSIVE" which obviously wasn't as they both had it the same day. But the so called "exclusive" was both national papers reporting that another publication, The Athletic had carried a particular story.
732 Posted 15/06/2021 at 20:40:25
733 Posted 15/06/2021 at 20:53:28
734 Posted 15/06/2021 at 21:04:43
735 Posted 15/06/2021 at 21:08:31
736 Posted 15/06/2021 at 21:33:21
I didnt say I get more complaints than anyone. I said I get more insults...but then you know that. You just foolishly twisted the words thinking nobody would notice, to justify your latest unprovoked attack
. You do realise they are still up there ?
I know why I get more insults too.I`ve seen too many others get the same stick and stop posting not to know. Its because people who sail with the prevailing wind like you always do, feel comfortable running with the pack. Dya know what ? I think I can live with that.
I noticed you Still havent condemed the abuse directed at another poster with an "alternative view". That tells me all I need to know.
If you think your unprovoked attacks gets close to the truth or exposes my "paper thin" skin. You havent been paying attention.
Good night John
737 Posted 15/06/2021 at 21:47:19
738 Posted 15/06/2021 at 21:56:12
Martinez was a breath of fresh air when he arrived and I was a big fan. His recruitment with little money was hugely impressive, he took a chance and spent most of his money on a striker Lukaku, deserved a clap on the back for his ambition. Sadly injuries, and no money to spend on a centre back cost him his job, what a difference if Moshiri was the boss then. Could he still do a job, I think so. By the way, I have a bus licence.
739 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:00:52
740 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:07:10
Also, it's amazing how often we hear that "I never respond to so and so" in direct response to messages posted by "so and so." If someone posts on a public forum and you write another post in response then clearly you are responding to that person even if you don't say "Don" "Thomas" "Dale" "Kieran" "Brent" etc in that response.
741 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:12:43
Looks like a photoshopped one to me like.
742 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:13:43
743 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:16:19
The same site had topless photos of Moira Stewart and Sue Lawley. Could be fake
744 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:25:20
What a night THAT was. 🤣
745 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:35:18
746 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:38:19
747 Posted 15/06/2021 at 22:46:43
748 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:20:48
Bought a book on Amazon" Longitude"
Read a piece about how badly Amazon drivers are treated
Heard that they have to piss in bottles in their van. Fuck knows what else they have to do.
Anyway, asked driver if he needed a shit
He didn't as it turned out but give it a try.
So, he tells me that he has a mate who was delivering a book to Eddie Howe( Yes, THE,Eddie Howe). Eddie ripped the fucking package to pieces and revealed the book. A slim volume of Georgian poetry as it turns out,but that is neither here or there.
What is of account is that the driver sat himself down on Eddie's bog and saw that the roll ( fucking Kittensoft, by the way) was covered by a blue lady Gainsborough kind of doll with a sash saying " up the Toffees"
Now, that was enough for me to invest on Eddie @14/1
I may be wrong but why would an unemployed football manager have Evertonian toilet roll cover if the job was not his. Make more sense than this Rafa stuff.
749 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:26:14
750 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:27:09
751 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:27:31
Was that when Roy was chairing the Oxford Debating Society or presenting ‘Catchphrase?
I seem to recall that a lot of what was uttered on that game show was miles wide of the mark, often incoherent bilge spouted in the vain hope it might be fruitful. Surely there is a requirement for the stuff posted on TW to be of a higher grade?
752 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:31:45
753 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:33:34
754 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:37:18
I wonder if either of you or any on here had the the pleasure of being involved in a pre match get together in the City Arms (I knew it as Andersons) - Aye they were times of much merriment ( followed by blurred vision).
If Farhad Moshiri is trying to get Conte, then all I can say is he has even deeper pockets than I thought he had. I cant see it personally but who knows.
755 Posted 15/06/2021 at 23:56:53
756 Posted 16/06/2021 at 01:16:33
Et al anyone that knows us.
Same old, the board act like we do on the pitch, no direction.
Carlo couldnt get a reaction from an average/slightly above average squad of over paid mediocre squad, with a few exceptions that were going nowhere!.
We need a manager that can get the best out of an average squad regardless.
We are not too 4, we will do well to get top 6.
Another false dawn on the horizon.
I will eat humble pie if Im proved wrong!!!
757 Posted 16/06/2021 at 01:47:23
Sincere apologies for using the word "complaints". I was merely being nice to you by not using, as you described "Hundreds of nasty insulting comments". Do you ever for one minute think you may actually have deserved them??? We all get the occasional insults, but you actually get hundreds. Is that a "complaint" or a boast.
"Unprovoked Attacks".Are you completely off your rocker ? My responses have come from your constant regular utter nonsense about positivity. and your ridiculous diatribes about "Happy Clappers". You get so many insults because you feel it is essential to "PROVOKE" all those who have the nerve to disagree with you.
Having said that I apologise for making you so sad particularly when I am addressing an Evertonian. I sincerely welcome rational discussion, verbal jousting, and ensuing debate on any topic, particularly Everton. I may be old but you are now in my courtyard just as I have dared to trespass in yours. I will continue to respond to your posts if "I" decide they are worth responding to. But please no more Fairy Tales about "Happy Clappers" and John Boon the Evil Positive Merciless Baron.I tell those stories to my Grandchildren.
758 Posted 16/06/2021 at 02:49:31
Dont scare the grandkids, if theyre like their grandad when it comes to football theyve enough sleepless nights as it is. I still have occasional nightmares about Ian Wilson playing ahead of Sheedy or Earl Barrett just playing period
759 Posted 16/06/2021 at 04:12:40
I always enjoy your responses, but be careful as your support is likely to be condemned as being an easily influenced "Happy Clapper".I just don't want to provoke you into doing the the wrong thing and subsequently receiving hundreds of nasty insults.
760 Posted 16/06/2021 at 06:13:57
Day whatever it is of the soap opera with no manager in sight. I'm beginning to wonder if this is waiting until after the Euros.
761 Posted 16/06/2021 at 06:16:21
You don't see whats under your nose.
There has not been a critic of Carlo Ancelloti who has not been roundly abused on these pages. Marshy, Johnathon Tasker, Ian Edwards..Even Conor left these pages due to the fanatics being so mortally insulted when he criticised Carlobetrayio.
Barry Rathbone kept his posts quite balanced but they even rounded on him- or tried to
The editor on this site would regularly be criticised for his "damning" headlines after enduring 90 minutes of zombie football.
Their crime ? They told the truth The HC's were not ready for the truth.
The insults (or attempted insults) aimed at me are from the same group of people. These are the people I refer to as the Happy clappers. Keiran kinsella even lists some of them for you - although I don't know who Dale is. These people will religiously post a response to every single comment I make. Many people on the site have pointed this out to them, but they go on unabashed.They don't need to be provoked. If I say its day time. They will come on and argue it was night time. My "punishment" ????
I have seen this group attempt to shout down every one who hasnt merrily happy clapped the dross we have witnessed all season (look how they speak to Ian Edwards).
Whilst nobody can ever be right when these petty feuds develop. This group have been seen to be as wrong as wrong can be Why would I be sad about that ? Their egos have taken an almighty bashing. I always knew that would happen.
I think you thought you were Kicking back John. You were'nt. You were merely entering a verbal battle which is approaching its dying embers.
BTW John; You repeatedly mention your age. So much so that poor old Keiran thought there was two of you. Give it a rest lad. This is not an army assault course. Being 80 means you are knocking on a bit, It does not make you bleeding stupid. No concessions from me...Now that WOULD be disrespectful.
Appolgies to the couple of people who didnt make Keiran's list...But you'll need to take that up with him
762 Posted 16/06/2021 at 06:28:41
Give it a rest lads.
This virtual falling out is quite boring to the rest of us who are reading the comments looking for tidbits about the new manager.
Or at least something as funny.
763 Posted 16/06/2021 at 07:03:00
The lads are gently taking the piss, nothing more.
Careful. You will be getting accused of acting like a liverpool fan with all this victim nonsense.
764 Posted 16/06/2021 at 07:34:04
Everton are favourites to sign him.
765 Posted 16/06/2021 at 07:40:02
Three step process now kicks in a) Put a cheeky bet on him before the odds shift b) start sharpening my TW attack lines on his hiring c) post daily until he is sacked.
766 Posted 16/06/2021 at 07:47:24
d] say how brilliant he is and how hes the guy for us
Cover every eventuality as some do and have done
767 Posted 16/06/2021 at 08:00:24
768 Posted 16/06/2021 at 08:31:41
769 Posted 16/06/2021 at 08:36:17
770 Posted 16/06/2021 at 08:47:00
He takes a lot of persuading to support outsiders as we dont get any better year on year out and he sees it as outsiders taking the pay cheques with no consideration for our long term health. He also calls it how he sees it - some may say negatively but I suspect he will say the tactics, personnel employed and performances were negative (even if results away from home were at times positive).
Im probably more of a happy clapper although I dont think there are just 2 camps I think theres various views and not that simple. I was prepared to give a serial winner time despite performances being bad and I made excuses for him for this which in hindsight probably wrong.
With Carlos resignation my viewpoint on him was certainly wrong. I didnt have a clue he had this clause in his contract and I feel really let down by Carlo and his utterings of loving Crosby and staying here a long time. Just like Darren backs those he considers have an affinity with the club and will give them slack, I have that in common and I was suckered in by Carlo. I feel shell shocked and fed up in all honesty - if Darren or anybody else want to call me a sucker, perhaps I am but we all love the club and have our own way of supporting.
Im genuinely lost on what happens next. However, I would like somebody who tries their best, looks for long term and hopefully gets our club and hopefully is a real good manager. Im 42 and I dont recall having a really good manager / genuinely (I dont remember pre 90). Joe Royle was probably the best but even he I felt went negatively in his last season.
Perhaps Ferguson has a chance, maybe even Unsworth I really dont know but I am getting sick to the back teeth of Everton paying out loads of compensation / wages to people who dont care. Wouldnt it be great to pay a so called pittance (ie half a million or so) and somebody be made up to have the job than pay £11m or whatever a year to somebody who was always short term and looking for next big thing.
771 Posted 16/06/2021 at 08:52:45
I'd rather go for someone like the young Dortmund coach who having led the team to a trophy last season, now has to revert to taking a back seat.
And back to my earlier point this morning. Are we waiting for the Euros? The international competitions invariably throw up a few manager options as international coaches use the tournaments as their swan song.
I'm starting to overthink this again!
772 Posted 16/06/2021 at 08:59:43
773 Posted 16/06/2021 at 09:51:24
774 Posted 16/06/2021 at 10:02:39
775 Posted 16/06/2021 at 10:05:51
Your problem is that you are delusional in believing, as you do, that you belong to a group that sees the game differently to others, sees it as it is, tells it how it is, holds the club to scrutiny while the Clappers accept mediocrity.
The reality is that we all see the same basic game, we all understand exactly how Everton have played, and we all accept the mediocrity or whatever it is – and that includes you. Like you, we accept it because we can't influence it, you are a customer of the club that is all and you have no influence whatsoever. You do absolutely nothing but whine in a bizarre form of constantly stating the obvious; you add nothing constructive to any discussion.
Gladly though, you're in a tiny minority and most look for positives whilst recognising the negatives. Happy Clappers are a figment of your imagination, that you hold the club to different standards and in any different way is fiction.
776 Posted 16/06/2021 at 10:25:45
Regarding Darren, sometimes I dont agree with him but nowhere near as often as I agree with him, Ive never met him but see him as a top Blue who not only loves the Blues but cares passionately about them, but always sees the faults as well as the qualities of the players and managers, long may he continue to post his views.
777 Posted 16/06/2021 at 11:19:29
When I got there, he was just finishing off a bloke in a pin-stripe suit and bowler hat, "Thanks for the Times Crossword answers and the Stock Market tips!" he shouted as he walked off.
I sat down and, before I could ask who is getting the Everton job, he started explaining the workings of a black hole and how everything that disappears into it ends up in the garden of a Council house in Scunthorpe.
Then he told me the advice he gave the Governor of the Bank of England when asked about raising interest rates, and what he thought about the Australian Trade Deal. Managing to get a word in at last, I said "The Everton job, what is the word on the streets?"
He looked around furtively to make sure no-one was in hearing range and then whispered that fat teary-eyed fella from Everton was here yesterday after repeatedly saying "David, David, David... why have you done this to me?"
Then, after sobbing uncontrollably and blowing his nose into one of my clean dusters, he said "Make sure you have plenty of Dark Tan polish in, Cherry Blossom – none of that Kiwi crap."
So I put my money on Bobby Brown Shoes. Get on him – it's like printing money.
778 Posted 16/06/2021 at 11:45:09
779 Posted 16/06/2021 at 11:46:47
I agree with you on Nuno Espirito Santo by the way.
The longer this goes on, the more I talk myself into expecting a managerial masterstroke. Then I remember it's Everton and put five quid on Eddie Howe.
780 Posted 16/06/2021 at 11:53:04
Carrying on with my Louis Walsh theme, I sometimes/often think that to many people in football, do the wrong job, and once they fail at management, they end up being lost to the game, because they must feel that they have nowhere to go after being a manager.
Fulham played some great football, and so it wouldnt surprise me if its because Scott Parker, is very good on the training ground, although Im Obviously just speculating, I think Duncan, might be a very good manager, and someone like Parker, might be his perfect foil?
Give them a joint manager title, and lets just get on with it!
781 Posted 16/06/2021 at 11:57:15
782 Posted 16/06/2021 at 12:02:39
Imo, Parker will develop into a top manager. I posted that a few weeks ago. He would be more of a contender a couple of seasons down the line, again, imo.
783 Posted 16/06/2021 at 12:03:40
784 Posted 16/06/2021 at 12:04:44
785 Posted 16/06/2021 at 12:16:36
786 Posted 16/06/2021 at 12:19:19
Tony @ 780, Scott Parker improved his team dramatically after a terrible start. He simply didn't have enough quality in the squad to keep Fulham up in the end. He is a more credible candidate than Howes, Potter or even the legendary Steve Cooper.
787 Posted 16/06/2021 at 12:25:48
788 Posted 16/06/2021 at 13:13:38
789 Posted 16/06/2021 at 13:25:59
790 Posted 16/06/2021 at 13:44:10
I am a huge fan of Martinez but none of us should go back, including Bobby.
He wouldn't get a fair crack of the whip here.
791 Posted 16/06/2021 at 13:49:56
I've no issue with Darren, but calling other Evertonians 'happy clappers' because they were prepared to give Carlo a chance, and to disagree with him, Ian and a few others, is definitely over the top. I know he has a great knowledge of our club.
792 Posted 16/06/2021 at 14:08:31
Only when you personally deride fellow fans have I taken you to task, and that's regrettably too often.
Being boorish, as so many readers describe you in polite terms, should cause you to reflect on your input I suggest. Keep it "Everton", never fellow fans, and as and when you disagree with them just say so without the associated derision, there's a good lad.
793 Posted 16/06/2021 at 14:36:43
Dave@776-like Tony you really are a great human being but I often wonder would you not think about going on Jeremy Kyle to get a DNA done because there is no way he's related with some of the rubbish he writes compared to you.
Perhaps he got all the talent and you got all the brains (sorry Tony but ever since you described Allan as a great little player, a little fetcher and carrier it's all gone downhill from there mate and I thought it could only get better)
794 Posted 16/06/2021 at 14:47:15
Maybe Dave was a wild eyed optimist back in the day, and decades of watching Everton have ground him down into the pragmatist we see today.
795 Posted 16/06/2021 at 14:48:11
Best ive seen in that role Kante
Good at his job Allan.
796 Posted 16/06/2021 at 14:55:03
Ill give you the brains bit though mate, because I was often told I havent got the brains I was born with, (There was usually a swear word in there as well, but dont tell anyone because hes a churchgoer) and I bet you can guess who told me that the most!
797 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:00:51
Much, much more than a tackling machine Allan.
He looked our most creative player in a couple of games towards the end of season. Only a couple of games mind but he showed he can pass and create.
798 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:03:52
Nuno 2-1, Howe 3-1, Benitez 6-1, Moyes 6-1, Lampard 9-1, Big Dunc 10-1, Rooney 16-1, Conte 10-1, Fonseca 12-1, Potter 14-1, Sarri 16-1, Wilde 16-1,Gerrard 25-1 !!!!!
Nuno hot favourite !
799 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:06:42
Looking at the odds.
The layers don't know, not a clue who is getting the job.
They are normally amongst the first to know.
800 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:09:55
I will stick to the topic, a new manager. My unbiased opinion. "Darren Hind". How on earth could I have been so blind. It must be my age.Being childish is just part of aging. I apologise for ever hurting your tender feelings. Bugles for my "LAST POST". well maybe ?
801 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:14:02
I wouldnt have minded getting swore at in Latin, Thomas, because you can never know to many words, but youve got me thinking of our motto now, and the way that bastard was allowed to run Everton down!
One thing I really didnt like in the game against City, has just come back to me now though. Tom Davies tried to play it out wide to Digne, but over hit the ball out of play, and Digne shook his head and pulled a little face. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, until Allen done the same thing to the same player, and yet got exactly the opposite response. Luca Digne put his thumb up, and shouted his team mate as if to say unlucky, and it made me look at him differently, because what is the bloody difference?
802 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:27:01
I was guilty of being too quick to judge after that opener versus Spurs. It seemed like the new guys clicked instantly. After that they took it in turns to have the occasional good game with lots of mediocre ones. Given Alan's age (specifically as a high energy player) I don't see him improving over time. He's not terrible by any means but if we could sell him now I'd take it. He's got more value than say Delph but a year from now his value will decrease
803 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:27:05
804 Posted 16/06/2021 at 15:43:53
I posted last week, it is creeping into Doms game.
Give them a bollocking by all means but not a snide gesture.
I think he was rushed back too quickly on occasion mate.
805 Posted 16/06/2021 at 16:02:44
I am not saying Martinez should come back it was the fat teary eyed bloke who kept sobbing and saying David David David and then he told the shoe shine boy to get some Dark Tan polish in. Then the shoe shine boy said put your money on Brown Shoes. I don't want him back.
If we had Belgiums players the Toffee Lady could manage Everton.
806 Posted 16/06/2021 at 17:54:29
807 Posted 16/06/2021 at 17:58:04
808 Posted 16/06/2021 at 18:04:13
809 Posted 16/06/2021 at 18:12:23
Let's move on eh? That's just a direct insult that will likely provoke a similar response.
810 Posted 16/06/2021 at 18:25:00
811 Posted 16/06/2021 at 18:40:29
812 Posted 16/06/2021 at 18:41:55
No. I am not denying that right.
813 Posted 16/06/2021 at 18:42:54
No kidding. The tea ladies create more, albeit warm beverages versus goals.
814 Posted 16/06/2021 at 18:45:23
One thing about Allan, and you saw it towards the end of the season, is that he mostly looks to play forward when he has the ball, providing he has options.
Can't remember the game, but there was one where he had the ball on the edge of our own box, looked up and had nothing. But rather than take the easy option of knocking it back to the keeper or sideways to a defender waited. Then waited again. Waited until something was on then played a long direct ball forward that resulted in a goal.
815 Posted 16/06/2021 at 19:24:03
A Fair comment. by dismissing a few people who would relentlessly and spitefully attack any criticism of Carlo as Happy Clappers. I was probable hitting unintended targets too.
What I will say - hand on heart. It was always as a response to a few people who were really aggressive towards my and anybody elses views about this manager. When you are repeatedly called negative for railing against what I saw as spoiling tactics. Its very easy to fire back with a terms like happy clappers. Brady bunch etc.. I would be lying if I didnt enjoy being the pantomime baddie. I think the others enjoyed it to. Otherwise they would not have participated so readily. arguing about the manager has long since been a tradition on these pages.
I'm looking forward to a little break from TW for a few weeks so I can concentrate on others sports that I enjoy. But I will not go before I defend myself against pathetic allegations made by Mason and Alexander - again.
Not a week goes by without Martin Mason accusing me of not being a " proper Evertonian" Its a claim I have utter contempt for. I pay for five season ticket every year and I will not engage with someone who is really only trying to ingratiate himself with what he thinks is the majority. until this week I have completely ignored his insults.
Don Alexander seems unable to help himself. He is even more prolific that Mason. He will sometimes posts several times a week taking nasty swipes at me. He nearly always forgets to even mention football... until this week he got ignored too.
I would have too much pride to come on a footy website just to attack another poster without even mentioning the game. Especially when it was repeatedly pointed out to me.
In light of the no response policy I adopt with these two. I wonder where all that persecution comes form. As far as I'm concerned its all in their heads. I would asked them to point to a time when I have personally abused them, but that would be pointless. They have no earthly hope of doing it.
The fact that John Boon is using support from these two to support his own case says everything. He thinks he has made me Sad. He has, but Its not me that I'm sad for.
Look Christy. I'm no innocent here. I matched fire with fire. I realise that wouldnt have endeared me to Carlo's fans. Shots I fired were clearly felt by people they were not intended for and for that I apologise. I'm no victim either. I could have walked away at any time
The insinuation that I alone have persecuted so many people is pathetic...Absolutely pathetic.
If the sensitive souls who are so desperate to be offended by responses (which never ever include expletives) moved in my circles. They wouldnt be just gently teased. They would be torn asunder.
Please let it not be Rafa
816 Posted 16/06/2021 at 19:27:43
817 Posted 16/06/2021 at 19:35:29
When he left us in 2012 after never really fitting in with Dour Davie's knife-to-a-gunfight psychology he said he'd become frustrated, criticising our tactics and lack of creativity along with a problem of scoring. Sound familiar?
Still, he scored 8 in 60 for us, including a few purlers from outside the box. I just wish anyone in our current midfield had the same sort of striking ability - https://youtu.be/Woj111IxLtI
And Tony, I agree with you re Allan, a good player but unfortunately not good enough to make up for the unfit, slapdash pretenders who infested our midfield well before he, Doucoure and James signed for us.
818 Posted 16/06/2021 at 19:40:23
I think it's happening.
The dogs will be so worried about me in the morning.
819 Posted 16/06/2021 at 19:48:00
820 Posted 16/06/2021 at 19:55:09
821 Posted 16/06/2021 at 20:46:54
Additionally you say you've ignored me until this week. Then how do you corroborate your childish "nasty swipes" line?
You've shown a real ability to research and relate historic posts whenever it suits whatever point you're hell-bent on "proving" rather than "opining" on. Therefore you either know or can discover the various posts of mine where I've fulsomely complimented you when you comment without denigration of other fans (and you can surely find examples for us all of my beastly "nasty swipes" too perhaps).
If you see Martin and I as your main detractors it's also a myth. Dozens have personally pointed out to you the distaste they feel for the way you attack other posters. One of the most recent stated "you really are a knob". No room for ambiguity there, or is there?
And as for enjoying being "the pantomime villain", well, my eight year-old grandson really enjoys those, and if you're seeking something else to do whilst you take a break from this site the lad can show you how to play "solitaire" - it's what you'd be good at.
PS - oh, and a football bit, to validate my entire post;
Please let it not be Rafa!
822 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:06:10
Youve referred to Darren and Jay Wood on more than one occasion in the past as “nutters”. If thats not a nasty swipe, I dont know what is.
823 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:23:31
Tonight I finally logged on again to see what's being said about the potential manager issue that could divide the fanbase.
And guess what? Nothing's changed apparently.
824 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:25:35
825 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:36:21
If you want to talk about footy why not put up an article ?...Oh sorry you did didnt you and you didnt get a single response.
You are not only cowardly. You are boring. ill informed and thick as a brick.
No need for red card Michael... 'My hands are high and I`m walking.
826 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:41:00
Will let you know when the money is down.
Don, love your stuff too. Two passionate blues. Will you both be at the next ToffeeWeb get together? I will. If I can make the effort you both should.
827 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:41:52
828 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:44:08
He did get one response.
But it was short and rather to the point.
829 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:54:10
Darren's second last sentence explains why some posters get a bit frustrated with his posts. The rest of it was reasonable but got nasty there IMHO. As Did Martin Mason earlier with his similar remarks on Darren. Neither Don nor Darren are "boring" or "lacking intellect," I don't agree with them on many things but that's just silly name calling.
830 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:55:16
Being relevant to the Topics. I look forward to actually getting back to sensible discussions about Everton and the enjoyment that is part and parcel of supporting any football team. At ToffeeWeb we are lucky enough to be provided with excellent articles which gives all supporters the opportunity to give their "OWN" pointof view. Despite your protests I remain "Positive" but only in disposition. Life is such that nobody can be positive about what lies ahead. I have never previously had the time to post on TW more than once a week until of late. I admit I made a mistake in ever interacting with you in the first place.. You are such a waste of my time. Enjoy your break.
831 Posted 16/06/2021 at 21:55:55
832 Posted 16/06/2021 at 22:00:37
833 Posted 16/06/2021 at 22:11:45
834 Posted 16/06/2021 at 22:12:10
835 Posted 16/06/2021 at 22:14:48
836 Posted 16/06/2021 at 22:17:21
You did make a mistake interacting with me...even though it was unwarranted. I made an even bigger mistake by responding.
I will leave you to impart your wisdom and enjoy life without the guy you went looking for. but a couple of words if I may.
Stop going on about your Evertonian credentials and ffs stop banging on about your age.
Looking foward to your article
837 Posted 16/06/2021 at 00:03:08
My first 3 were about football, the rest address our Dazza.
A very large number of Dazza's posts follow his personal initial denigration of the likes of Steve Brown, John Boon, Martin Mason, me and others I maybe can't recall, and yet he ploughs on, but bleating about "nasty swipes" to him. Ah diddums.
I have submitted articles for publication and most have met with editorial approval for publication by our illustrious site leaders. They make good choices, even if an article only receives one response. Ouch, and thanks Michael!!
The site's full of strong, humorous, insightful, madcap opinion (take your choice) and that's what makes it excellent. Long may it continue.
There's no need to initiate repeated, knowingly personal barbs to fellow Toffees (who all tell you to your face Dazza) if you have one iota of personal integrity.
Enjoy your Summer off. I will!
838 Posted 17/06/2021 at 09:50:11
839 Posted 17/06/2021 at 09:59:37
840 Posted 18/06/2021 at 13:44:51
Plus the Ancelotti debate is over. He's gone so why rake over old debates? Let's move on.
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