Onana coming home as Belgium crash out of the World Cup

Part of me wonders why we didn't push harder.

But then maybe Ajax were holding out, knowing they could get more?

I think we would have landed him if Man Utd hadn't offered such big money for Antony. They only wanted to lose one so they took the bigger offer.

It's looking like history will repeat itself. In which case we should expect England to lose to the Hand of Mbappe I suppose in the quarter-final.

Landon Donovan commentating on Fox is bewildered that Belgium is being so casual.

Looking at him now, he's way past his best.

The reason why some of the biggest clubs in world football have won fuck all with Lukaku in their team. Every time he plays in a big match his kecks roll up. Total choker. I'd have fancied myself to get at least a brace there.

Roberto. The team and the entire Belgian nation will be despairing of giving this flat track bully yet another chance.

He can still control it further than Jordan Pickford can kick it though.

Croatia were more decisive, created more chances, sharper attacks. That's Martinez out of a job and Lukaku on his way back to Goodison, or West Brom!

Disagree that he never performs on big stage. He was immense at Inter under Conte and won the League. And in the last World Cup, he ripped Brazil to shreds in the quarter-finals.

Martinez out of his depth, and Belgium quite simply too old.

Not just going out of the World Cup but going out in the group stages and he says they can hold their heads up high.
Unbelievable!

Their star player, Kevin De Bruyne, was non-existent.

Fill your boots, you cranks.

I'd be delighted if we were creating and missing four or five chances like that per game, it would mean we are doing something right!

It shows we have to get some behind closed doors type competitive games into Calvert-Lewin, if he is fit enough, before the resumption.
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He only came on for the 2nd half and has played 27 minutes of football with Inter since August. For a player with so little football, he was Belgium's biggest threat, considering De Bruyne was so poor in the 3 games.

Rob Stone: "He won't be unemployed for long."

Stuart Holden: "I'm looking for somebody to manage my cryptocurrency portfolio."

Absolute gold.

"I'm gonna work hard to make sure I'll be 100% by game time."

Given the location of his injury, we can only imagine what the hard work will consist of.

Everton to bring him back? Please no!

Martinez was great for us for one season but he's a busted flush now. The verbal diarrhoea was nauseating towards the end of his tenure at Everton. He was at it again tonight.

Germany up 1-nil.

Craig, none of us is as good as we think we are.

Commentators on the Germany - Costa Rica game talking about Oviedo's goal at Old Trafford. I am smiling as always. Love that man. Loved that goal.

I was thinking the same thing as they toiled sideways and back with little urgency reminding me of the side he left us with. Some good players in the Belgium side but collectively pretty poor and not a great watch.

I have been through Qatar many times and it gets incredibly hot so how Bobby and his brown shoes got through the game wearing a suit and tie pretty much shows that he feels naff all through his thick skin.

Please, please let us pray that Bungalow Bill doesn't try to get him back on board with all of the other yes-men old blues we already have.

How very dare you refer to Graeme Sharp as a yes-man old blue!

Brian Clough once said we had a fantastic team on paper but sadly the game was played on grass.

If only he had said 'phenomenal team' . . .

I never wanted him the first time and I sure as heck don't want him now!

Are you mad?

I just watched the interview with Gary Stevens.

I don't admitting and as I've just said to Brian Murray, I went very teary blue Bill-like when he spoke about his tragic loss of his young son.

On playing football, specifically playing for Everton to win Championships and trophies. I nearly cried again for different reasons hearing that language and remembering it.

He spoke about striking a ball. My word, he could strike a ball. Some of the younger fans rightfully talk about the Pienaar and Baines partnership.

Gary Stevens and Trevor Steven had one on the opposite side of the pitch.

2 league titles, European trophy and an FA Cup. But none of that will take away the loss of his young son. Humble guy. Gave me great moments.

I told him we need to confiscate Bill's phone immediately.

And the Germans are on the plane home already.

Wow. One chorus of TICO TICO!

When the draw was made you said this would be the group of death. I don't mind saying I thought you had gone crackers at the time. But it would appear you were correct.

Now Spain in trouble.

OK - changed again!

Navas with a facial save.

*actually that's changed now due to goals scored; many permutations. Think it's bye-bye though...

Everton have signed a five-year deal with manager Roberto.

BREAKING NEWS: Everton have signed a five-year deal with manager Roberto Martinez. More soon. #EFC #sololomejor. Image. 20:35 PM · 1 December

What was the last team to beat Germany and Spain at the World Cup?

Such a shame about all the negative off the field aspects to it - because on the field has generally been quite brilliant.

Under Lampard we are in the same position 11 months after he took over.

He plays one isolated forward, two wingers that cut inside instead of crossing and don't feed the striker, they don't score or assist. The centre midfield don't create or assist and don't protect the defence.

The two Central defenders are so slow that we have to defend so deeply to prevent runs in behind resulting in teams attacking our area and shots just absolutely pour in game after game.

He also has a left back that won't cross the half way line.

His subs are usually wrong and late.

He has the tactical nous of plankton. There is no doubt at all that he is taking us down and games will soon start slipping by.

So, yes... I would sooner have Martinez than Lampard.

Despite weaknesses in our squad we are not actually that bad if you can add two forward players with pace, aggression and physicality.

It looks we're trying to resolve that with links to Beto, Dia and others.

That's much more important than the manager position.

Belgium and Germany out (bracket broken).

Way to go Japan. I knew they were good, but thought they got an awful draw in Group E with Germany and Spain. Really happy for that nation - they'll be all over this.

Meanwhile, looking at the bracket, an exhausted USA team has to get through the Dutch and then probably Argentina. But hey, this World Cup? Who knows!

Picked a good time to watch though!

I'd rather not discuss the peripheral circus.

Martinez. Thought he got booted a little too early especially when the (subsequently wasted) money arrived. To bring him back though? No.

My view is you never go back to a manager we went from top 4-6 contenders to mid/bottom half league club. We went backwards under Martinez. Still, if that's progress, give that man a 5 year contract!

You are correct. Whatever little money we have left we need to spend it on players not sacking Lampard and his entourage and bringing in a new crew.

Still not convinced we have a lot of financial room in which to operate, however, come January.

Will Mabon -

Link

Miracles. They happen. My single greatest moment in sport. I was 12. I went batshit crazy running around the house. Like crazy nuts. NOTHING will ever, ever come close. Everton winning the title maybe, but as an American that was just unreal. Unreal.

Pat Kelly @ 82 -

Don't listen to Mike Gaynes. That was hilarious!

From what I have read it seems like a big challenge for African sides is the administration. Hotels, training facilities, transport etc due to lack of government funding. But if England lose to Senegal then I'll be on board with Senegal. Samuel Eto'o reckons it will be a Morocco v Cameroon final. The first part of that doesn't seem so crazy after today. We will see if Cameroon can pull of another upset tomorrow.

Some things that actually happen would seem far fetched in a novel.

Definitely more to come.

Inflation. Hostages in Iran. Russia. Cold War. The country was just at a brutal low.

That game meant everything. Literally lifted a nation. I was only 12 but I felt it.

I don't think I'll ever see anything like that ever again. Still tear up every time I watch that countdown and hear Al Michaels with his legendary, immortal call: "Do you believe in miracles? YES!!!!"

Good Lord that moment meant so much, playing hockey my whole life and seeing that.

Enough walking down sentimental road. This World Cup is brilliant, and yes some serious major surprises are primed and ready. Awesome stuff. As you say, more to come.

Martinez's defence was older than Hadrian's Wall. If he came back I wouldn't put it past him to bring in his Belgian center backs. He will tell us Tarkowski is at that "inbetween age" where he needs more experience playing at full back before he has enough gray hair to be a center back.

I'd rather Wilson be getting more minutes over Harry Kane also.

Germany result would indeed have been enough. . . if they had good results in their two prior games. Did he expect Japan just to throw the towel in?

Even his supporter(s) on the Board must surely recognise that.

Good point. I fogot how old Mueller is but he scored a couple in that game too so you'd think he'd remember.

An isolated forward and two wingers who cut in... well, what's the alternative? You could try playing DCL and Maupay together, but they've both been available about three matches this season.

"We questioned why we weren't working on set-pieces and Graeme Jones, the assistant manager, said: "How many do you have to defend in a game? Three? So why would we spend two hours standing around to defend three set-pieces when we could work on moving the ball."

And, no coincidence, in Roberto's final season alone, we gave up 14 goals on set pieces. Worst in the league two years in a row. And for those two seasons we won 28% of our games.

The guy is a complete lox. Let it go.

The WC being in the USA is going to put me in a weird situation. I hate baseball and football as you call it but living in KC when they won titles and knowing some players from the Chiefs and Royals I ended up even going to games and cheering. Likewise I know a few Sporting KC players and ended up getting sucked into that bandwagon too. So I’m anxious thar with the WC in KC, I might have some kind of Darth Vader existential crisis looking at England/Empire or my American daughter/Community and having to pick sides.

The man is a complete buffoon who conned his way into two of the biggest gigs in football.

Personally I’d prefer a Gallardo, Tuchel or Pochetino - but if Frank loses the next two, I’d take Bobby back immediately.

But credit to Japan. They beat Germany and Spain to top their group.

I think Martinez has repeated his Everton pattern with Belgium.

Takes over a decent bunch of players. Does okay to start with. Eventually gets exposed.

Won a trophy but got relegated in the same season.

Took us to 2 semi finals at the sacrifice of our league position.

I want Everton to win trophies. A day out at Wembley would be welcome.

But I want a management team that has it's main focus on our 10th League title.

And the League Cup. Sorry.

Curvature of the ball? It was over the line and off the pitch.

One thing that Everton can take from this World Cup is that all the teams could pass and retain possession and create scoring opportunities.Everton are simply not good enough in comparison.

'Martinez the subject of an offer from the Blues to take on a dual role as Everton manager back in January, an arrangement that the Belgian FA refused to entertain, '

Glad I didn't take Marinez serious in January, since I can't recall the above.from Lydons article Really does make you wonder if anyone at Everton has a clue about football.Also confirms that Frank was appointed as a result of fan pressure..But those ejits involved in such a ludicrous suggestion are still there.

If the curvature of the ball malarkey is the rule, then it was in. I never knew that rule, nor did it seem, most everyone else in the football world. I wonder how many other rules we don't know?

If it is the rule – and we are assured it is – it’s a rule that to my knowledge has never ever been invoked before.

The magnanimous, humble Germans will be as sick as sea-going Parrots. So yeah. I'm all for sticking hard and fast to the rules..... this time!

You'd think he would be used to blowing it when the chips are down by now!

And just to add for the benefit of the Germans - if Frank's shot (in whatever year it was), was not over the line - then sure as hell that ball last night wasn't.

He was a very odd character, delusional in the extreme. Only a weird control freak, equally delusional, would appoint him a second time… oh, wait a minute!

Sour-ness is the most obnoxious RS ever - matching Roy Keane for stupidity

That said, England might not have won their one World Cup if it had been in place.

As for VAR, it's still a mystery to me how football has messed up something, which should make Clive Thomas 1977 decisions clear, accountable and there for all to see.

I said before the competition, Germany were a shadow and are in transition. They will reorganise and reset. 4 World Cups, 3 Euros and countless runner's up finishes over the years.

England had an open top bus tour with comedy breasts because they went out in a semi final once and Gazza cried.

Random memory. Not as bad as that joint open bus parade through the city in 1986. The Liverpool bus in front of the Everton one with them holding both trophies. I went to see them but I think I felt as much of a spare part as our players did.

Very surprised by your dogmatic assertion there.

I agree that in real time it looked like the momentum of the ball had taken it over the line, but freeze-frame says different:

Link

Forget about this ‘curvature' bollocks – the whole of the ball must be over the whole of the line. That means a gap between the edge of the ball and the edge of the line.

No photos I've seen show that gap.

Forget this curvature of the ball bollocks. We have goal line technology to rule on goals. Do we now need touchline technology as well?

If all of the ball touching the ground is out, the ball is out. Pity the officials who now have to have built-in drones to make decisions.

“If all of the ball touching the ground is out, the ball is out.”

Nice idea.

But that's not the rule. Never has been.

And apparently they used the goal line technology camera to determine this.

He has an uncanny habit of dismantling a teams heart and spirit with his tedious tactics, he inherited a good team at Everton and world class team at Belgium and managed to destroyed both.

Don't be surprised to see him back in January when the results could force a change of manager, if he does return I'm done with Everton until he's removed. I couldn't bear to listen to his bullshit again.

There are other pictures that show daylight between the ball and the line, so this decision has definitely been made from a grey area, imo. Maybe I think like this because I don’t believe that football is straight, but if this is technology, then I would argue that technology can definitely be altered to suit?

I can't believe a Japan goal is scratching my bitter itch.

You won't be done with Everton Trevor.

It isn't possible. The first half of last season proved that for all of us.

They're our Everton. And we can't leave them. Ever.

The rules have been the same for years, no need to mess with them now.

I think if they had played with a square ball in the World Cup it would have been easier to notice if the ball was out or in before it was crossed, maybe that’s another change they could consider.

I don't understand why Germany are giving sympathy for going out. I couldn't care less and Rudiger is still geeting loads of grief for his stupid running in the Japan game

Deutshland, Deutshland Uber, er no, for me Feck em off

Still Brazil, France or Argentina for me.

Croatia might do well and Holland could be a dark orange horse.

England have a chance, but I'm not sure I could withstand it being an exile in London.

The incident with Sterling against us comes to mind among others. Clearly wrong on that occasion but allowed to stand. But subjective, eh?

Many goals are ruled good or not good when the ball is in the air using the tech so that would apply the full length of the line.

Anyway it is what is is,.Germany are going home, and it's sure to create some further debate in the corridors of power!

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2975317

Great stuff!

This is a different kettle of fish to tennis where the line is actually the target and there are close calls every 5 minutes as opposed to this once-in-a-hundred-year debate.
There is no way on earth the non existent shot from the air will find its way into every ground in the world in the future either
The markings on the pitch (lines) have been used as THE marker, ever since the game was invented. They always will be.

Some decisions have to be taken using the naked eye. This is one of them.

That ball was out. Well out. Even John McEnroe would have struggled to argue he saw chalk dust

Almost as bad a decision as the penalty Messi got against Poland after he’d headed the ball wide.

I always find the attitude of the referees in making these decisions pretty cowardly. They use VAR to duck out of decisons they have made that they often should stick to.

Use VAR for offsde and goal-line decisons only. Give each manager one appeal they can make against a referee decision each half and leave it at that.

They're called Kopites

What we are really complaining about once again, is the appalling inconsistency caused by poor officiating reliant on technology.

It's ruining the game. Football has allowed technology to replace the need for referees, decision making is made doubly contentious through the introduction of VAR and their selective interpretation of decisions made on the pitch. The offside law interpretation is a disgrace, it has been used as a confirmation tool rather than in exception. It's own layer of interpretation has led to rule changes to suit VAR not the game.

No tackling, soon no heading, no contact. No human referees on the pitch, ball sensors..

Ask the questions, Has VAR improved the game? Who is actually benefitting from the changes? Where is this beautiful game going? Football, a game that didn't need fixing is now fixed in more ways than one.

I can see it on this thread, and I also know this is the way of the world, but this general acceptance doesn’t do any good whatsoever to help the game I once loved, Imo mate.

I look no further than your first paragraph in post187 Darren, and this leaves me questioning who exactly is in charge of any given game, and it genuinely saddens me.

Link

The second picture/video is FIFA's Twitter post. The premium filmed quality you would expect or should I say, know will exist, has somehow got "lost" in the process of getting to Twitter.

However despite the blurry image at around 20 seconds the ball sure looks to be in, and not just by the shadow.

VAR certainly "adds" to the discussion.

(apologies if this repeats the link of the poster at 166; that link wouldn't work for me).

Christine, VAR has certainly changed the game, but I don't think it has ruined it. The problem with VAR isn't the system itself. It's the idiotic way FIFA and the PL and other dim-bulb poobahs are instructing the referees and ARs to allow for it.

Steve, #189, I don't believe the officials are cowards. This is the way they are being told to officiate with the system in place, like the much-delayed offside flags. VAR is now core to the way the refs officiate, rather than an adjunct as it should be.

It's a mess but I believe it will be straightened out over time, as other sports have done with their video review systems. Baseball, NFL, basketball, hockey, rugby, tennis all use them pretty seamlessly now. Footy is just behind the curve.

And to me, VAR got the Japan ruling right.

The polite version.

What has been winding me up in recent years is how the linesmen don't actually assist. Watch just about every decision on a throw in. They won't raise their flag until they look at the Ref who points his hand in a low profile manner.

Then they go with his decision.

They've become as pointless as those ones we had in Europe stood behind the goal posts offering nothing.

Only 24 days to go.

Football wants controversy, it’s the World game, it’s on television almost twenty-four-seven, but once/if we ever start hearing these referees speak, then my guess is, that it will be followed by a major court-case.

The game is bent, and although saying this, is a big fucking statement, nothing much is going to convince me otherwise.

It must also be asked why football is far behind other sports in using VAR properly so we can all see, at the time, why decisions are made, all premier league clubs have screens in the ground for the explanations to be aired, sorry wrong there, I don’t thinkLiverpool or Man.United have screens, two of the biggest clubs making more money than most clubs but can’t make space for screens.

It would be easy today to immediately show real time in-stadium and on live media, the very film and shots from which the decision was made - plus explanation - but they don't.

This betrays I believe the opportunity for what might be called, interpretation and adjustment. Or as you say, it's bent.

*Sorry, Dave - slightly repeated you there. Same-time typing and posting!

No axe to grind because I don't really give a shit re Uruguay/S.Korea but if that was a league game with Cavani playing for one of the "six" it would def go to VAR, I believe Uruguay have fair grounds for complaint. Glad to see Karma for Ratboy though.

I've worked with excellent refs for 45 years, and I can tell you that it would be against a referee's nature to let a foul pass or keep the flag down on an obvious offside. We go out there to officiate. They are being TOLD to proceed this way. It is idiotic and senseless. But I do not believe referee cowardice has anything to do with it.

As to why football is so far behind the curve, I remain convinced that it's a function of the overseers, whether they be FIFA or the Premier League. Here in the US, where video review systems have been mainstream for decades, the use of VAR in MLS is significantly more sensible and efficient than it is in the greatest league in the world.

I've met you and believe you are a very honest man, but I think you are naive if you think every referee is as honest as yourself. Just one game absolutely convinced me of a referee's utter bias and dishonesty – a derby game that you might have seen yourself.

Mr. Clattenburg was the official that day, not one or two decisions but four at least. A thoroughly pathetic, biased and dishonest performance which he walked away from without a word from anyone, yet David Moyes was pulled up for questioning his refereeing that day.

That was just one game. I've seen many more where the referee's ability was seriously questioned, and of course many have been downgraded for a game or two but allowed back to referee in the Premier League.

Definitely not questioning your integrity, Mike, but some of your fellow referees need a good looking at, especially in the Premier League.

No problem, I've read plenty of your posts in the past and you're always your own man.

No more errors such as Lampard's missed goal, Spurs at Old Trafford or I recall South Korea having a similar goal allowed when they hosted. Or Bolton at Goodison that would have sent us down!

But I'm not sure the laws of the game were ever meant to be interpreted quite this literally. That's been out of play for over 100 years. Now it isn't and that doesn't feel right. Every footballer thinks that ball went out of play. Except now it didn't.

Kim #203, gotta disagree. What I saw in real time -- confirmed on replay -- was the two players running side-by-side and Cavani sticking his leg out sideways in front of the defender to draw the contact. The defender never even reached for the ball, just ran. The ref was perfectly positioned and got it right IMO. In fact I would have given Cavani a yellow.

True, if the VAR was around then, Lescott most probably would have been sent off for pushing Caragher!!

Hadn't Clattenburg actually gone out to the Far East with Liverpool that pre-season?

The fact the league didn't allow him to ref us for ages spoke volumes.

That's a good point Ernie; over-control, cold digitization above human judgement. Even that of professionals.

Since things have been pushed down this route, it might offset the loss a little if what we had now were actually what it purports to be - a reliable and accurate solution to possible errors or misjudgements etc.

We don't have that. Seems there's still no definitive black and white for many situations (pens and fouls mainly) but now we have all the delays, the fanfare and the uncomfortable knowledge that there is still room for possible bias.