Report: MSP looking to invest £105m for 25% stake in Everton

08/02/2023 206comments  |  Jump to last

The American sports entity believed to be interested in Everton Football Club are reportedly willing to invest £105m for a 25% stake in the club.

The Mirror are reporting that the talks with MSP Sports Capital, alluded to by majority shareholder, Farhad Moshiri, in recent interview with the Fan Advisory Board, involve a proposal for them to purchase shares equivalent to a quarter of those outstanding, and to take two seats on the Board of Directors. 

If true, it would imply that Moshiri values the club at £420m which is considerably less than he has invested to date but is seen by observers as a means of providing additional funding capability for the new Everton Stadium under construction at Bramley-Moore Dock, the price tag of which the British-Iranian billionaire recently said had grown from £550m to £760m.

The Liverpool Echo report further that MSP, two of whose co-founders, Jahm Najafi and Jeff Moorad, as well as vice-president Pete Taylor attended the recent home game against Southampton, are just one of a number of interested parties that include other institutional investors from North America.

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The Echo suggest that no deal is imminent even though Moshiri intimated that he was close to securing additional investment in the club.

It is seven years ago this month that Moshiri took his own intial stake in Everton and he has since amassed 94% of the club's shares by buying most of the holdings of the likes of Chairman Bill Kenwright and Lord Grantchester.

His personal investment in the club is estimated to be around £850m to date but with his long-time business associate, Alisher Usmanov, sanctioned by the UK following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Moshiri has cut ties with the holding company he co-owned with the oligarch, USM Holdings, which had been providing much of Everton's sponsorship revenue in recent years.


Reader Comments (206)

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Stephen Davies
1 Posted 08/02/2023 at 02:49:44
“At MSP Sports Capital, we only pursue investments with operational control or significant influence."

An interesting stance on how MSP Sports Capital, linked with #EFC talks, approach their investments.

Danny O’Neill
2 Posted 08/02/2023 at 06:34:48
If there are any legs in that,Stephen, that sounds like getting a foot in the door.

Two seats on a small board means they want influence and control. Good.

And once anyone sits in that first boardroom meeting, I would imagine they would challenge the "strategy" and call the incumbents out.

Not long until Monday.

Eric Myles
3 Posted 08/02/2023 at 06:45:01

I hope it's the two seats currently occupied by the Chairman and CEO.

Neil Halliwell
4 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:19:18
We need investment but will the two new board members know anything about Premier League football?

The words "blind leading the blind" come to mind…

Paul Hewitt
6 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:24:28
Neil @4.

As long as they know about business — that's what matters.

Neil Lawson
7 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:32:24
It's not the removal of Moshiri or Kenwright, certainly in the short term. Given their performance at the helm, they need to be gone. I would much prefer a buyout by someone reputable.
Danny O’Neill
8 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:32:48
Neil, as long as they know how to run a business, that's good with with me.

I don't like the Premier League experience thing from owner to manager to player. It doesn't matter in my option.

We have football people to run the football.

I think I said elsewhere, but it was so refreshing to hear the Hollywood owners of Wrexham a week ago saying they didn't worry about what went on on the pitch and left it to those down below.

Yes, they will demand for their investment. But leave it to people who understand.

We've had too much interference from people who think they do but really don't.

I think Moshiri has woken up. I also think that, if this comes off, there will be a few nervous figures in that board room. If they stay. I envisage if this happens, they will be kindly given their notice.

Larry O'Hara
9 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:37:54
I think we need input from our American cousins about MSP…
Brian Harrison
10 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:44:56
Should this report be true, then Moshiri values the club at £420M which is just under half of what the new stadium costs.

I understand our position in the lPremier League table will have an impact on the price of the club, but that seems very cheap these days for a well-established Premier League club.

Bob Parrington
11 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:52:53
Cheapskates IMO. We should tell them where to get off!
Jim Lloyd
12 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:56:36
Neil (4) Good point, but I seem to remember reading somewhere, that if an investor comes in as a minor partner (may not have been "partner") or investor with something more than 5%, they could call for a special shareholders meeting, to allow the Owner to overrule any agreement with the current Chairman that he cannot be dismissed. (Bloody well hope so!!!)

If this is true about the bid and the price offered, it might well reflect what circumstances the club currently finds itself in. We could go down!

I think that, if it comes about, the investors will not want to just sit on the board and glow in the glory of sitting alongside True Blue Bill. It's more likely it's the toe in the door towards a larger shareholding, more influence, and more seats on the board.

Paul Hewitt
13 Posted 08/02/2023 at 09:56:40
We could be about to get much needed investment with 2 more board members, and people still ain't happy. Unbelievable.
Jim Lloyd
14 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:03:14
Paul. Well said!
Jerome Shields
15 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:05:23

"At MSP Sports Capital, we only pursue investments with operational control or significant influence."

Wonder what Bill thinks of that?

Allen Rodgers
16 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:09:44
The figure of £105m for 25% seems very cheap. Moshiri would get a better offer on Dragons Den!

Perhaps this potential deal has been publicised to draw in other investors?

Danny O’Neill
17 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:22:52
If I am an investor looking at Everton right now, I can see gold with the new stadium on the horizon. But the immediate risk is we can only offer copper or tin. So I'm going for the best deal I can get. It will be a negotiation.

The most encouraging thing is the apparent demand to have a presence on the board. That would shake the club up and maybe even start the cleanout.

It seems obvious the owner isn't selling and is looking for investors. Any stakeholders will definitely want a voice.

Clive Rogers
18 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:29:54
Allen, 17, it's not really cheap. It's a loss making business – nearly £400M in the last 3 years, including a record loss.

The business side is a disaster and has been neglected for years. The playing side is hardly any better. The club is not what it used to be.

Dermot O'Brien
19 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:43:43
Oh no. If we have different board members then no other Premier League board will ever say "What would the Everton Board do?" again.

The prestige and honour of our board will be lost forever.

James Marshall
20 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:45:36
Neil @10

I sat and watched the game last night too - my intake of Premier League football has waned massively in recent years. I used to watch as much as I could, but I've lost interest in the game since it morphed into what is getting close to becoming 'touch football'. Add VAR into the mix and most top level games are dull as dishwater - it only interests me when Everton are playing.

I much prefer cup games with no VAR, and players actually being allowed to tackle. It was a cracking game last night - very refreshing to watch.

Andrew Heffernan
21 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:46:05
That's a low valuation; and as for the two directors, it doesn't mean squat unless there are delegated powers and the executive team are capable of implementing them. Moshiri would still be the deciding vote in any meaningful decision – and rightly so given the money he's invested.

Had the team not been performing so badly, and a lot rests on their shoulders for 'application', I doubt there would be the noise directed at the owner – who can in my view only be criticised for not managing the P&S / liquidity element better.

But again in his defence, he has employed a board and executives to discharge his wishes – and he's financed it.

The article on Kenwright in the Mail a few weeks back sums up the problem at Everton. I'm not sure £105M and two directors will fix that – look across the park!!

If I were Moshiri, I'd leverage and finish the job myself and sell out when the ground was completed. I'm guessing his usual lines of credit are not as liquid as usual due to current political issues…

Ian Pilkington
22 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:46:12
This is the equivalent of Robert Earl's investment in 2006 and is very bad news as Moshiri will keep control with the likelihood that Kenwright and his lackey stay on – a blueprint for yet more mediocrity.

As was the case with Chelsea, the impending sale of Liverpool and Manchester United will flush out several potential buyers, but this investment (assuming it is the limit of MSP's ambition) would complicate a full takeover.

Dyche has given us considerable hope that we will start to move up the table but we want Moshiri, Kenwright and Co out as soon as possible before they do any more damage.

Christine Foster
23 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:48:59
Danny #18,

"It seems obvious the owner isn't selling and is looking for investors. Any stakeholders will definitely want a voice."

That sounds familiar… I think I first wrote that 15 years ago!

Christine Foster
24 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:56:47
"The ECHO understands that while MSP are interested they are one of a number of potential investors, including other institutional investors from North America, talks remain in the early stages and no deal is imminent.

It is also understood that Matthew Hammond, a long-time business associate of Moshiri's who has previously held positions as chief financial officer of Russia's Group, has been engaged by Moshiri personally to facilitate some of the talks in a role as an independent strategic advisor.

Moshiri, when speaking to Everton's Fan Advisory Board last month, revealed that he was "close" to securing financing for the remainder of the stadium.

That deal, it is understood, is separate to any talks over an equity stake in the football club, with that search being conducted by investment banks MUFG and JP Morgan Chase."

So it seems MSP are looking at an investment for 25% of the club excluding stadium... hmm

Paul Hewitt
25 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:58:45
I'd have a guess, but this could be the start of what will be a full buy out.
Christine Foster
26 Posted 08/02/2023 at 10:59:17
I wonder if Mr Hammond has been engaged to do a real strategic review…?

Just asking.

Barry Rathbone
27 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:07:20
On the face of it, hardly the ticket to the big boys' party – more an indicator of clutching at straws… and very worryingly American straws.

Don't get me wrong: on a personal level, I've got some great American friends but the fact is even at massive money generators, Man Utd and Liverpool, the American owners are despised.

Football isn't a business, well, it is… but not in the conventional way. The seed money to take a club from mediocrity (our position) to base camp Everest (Top 6) is monumental. Even Usmanov's reputed £500M hasn't got us off the tarmac at Manchester airport.

American owners don't seem to grasp this – the idea footy success can be generated from the usual practices of marketing, prudent spending and powerpoint presentations is for the birds.

Successful football is about funding monumental mistakes time after time until enough shit sticks or you get lucky with a Klopp.

Americans with £105 million can't do that.

James Hughes
28 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:17:37
Danny #8,

I know it's early but have you been drinking, mate?

Have you been the 'Spoons for a full English???

We have football people to run the football.

When did this happen, have they just arrived? Were they here when we bought three No 10s?

[Sorry, bud, just poking fun...]

On to Monday as I feel confident after last weekend.


Paul Hewitt
29 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:22:59
Well after reading the posts on here, it would seem better to stay as we are.
Paul Richardson
30 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:23:04
It seems a strange amount to offer (I understand it is a starting point in the negotiations) for EFC only, valuing that asset at only £420m and without any financial part to play in the new stadium. Is it a risk the club will be financially separated from the stadium and, in effect, only have the status of tenants?
Christine Foster
31 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:25:50
The glaring obvious elephant in the room is that it's a 25% equity holding on the club, not the stadium which is seeking a separate funding solution.. so they are not linked by common ownership? If true it would explain a great deal, as to the perceived value of the club. If it did include the stadium, obviously not, then they would be looking to pay some 275m for a 25% stake, not 105m as stated.
Which means their are two separately independent deals being looked for, equity in the club and equity in the stadium. Clearly if Moshiri sells the club but keeps the stadium, that's where his perspective has been focused on from the beginning, then he benefits the real estate without having the hassles of club ownership.
Eddie Dunn
32 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:25:55
Andrew @22. I think the "lines of credit" is important. We know little of Moshiri's income streams although recently it was stated on here that his net worth had significantly increased. Makes one wonder just how much liquidity he has without his old Uzbek mucker on board.
Barry Hesketh
33 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:27:02
Barry @28
I agree that this possible investment will hardly be a game changer for the club on the field of play, however, it might help Moshiri and company to complete the new stadium, and keep the club afloat in the interim.

The small window of opportunity that Moshiri mentioned very early in his tenure, is now well and truly bolted shut as it doesn't look as if the really massive investors would be at all interested in Everton FC or if they are that Moshiri wants to relinquish full control of the club.

The club will now have to follow its original mode of operation, which the likes of Brighton, Brentford et al are now following and hope that the manager and his staff can get the players to perform at maximum levels in most matches. Buy cheap, sell high and hope that the squad is good enough from season to season.

Our dreams of being among the elite will have to be put on hold for at least a few years, but whilst that's disappointing for many of us, having a financially stable club led by people who might know what they are doing would be welcome as would the completion of the new stadium.

Danny O’Neill
34 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:33:42
It's okay James. Only on match days!!
Michael Kenrick
35 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:34:50
Some very good posts on here.

It raises the question of Stadium ownership again – something which remains unanswered in my mind. I mean, if you look at the last Annual Report, Everton Stadium Development Company is a 100% wholly owned subsidiary of Everton Football Club Co Ltd – 'The Group' in report parlance.

And all the monies for construction appear to be going through Everton's books. So quite how the new stadium can be separated from the club / group is quite a mystery to me as the Everton Shares are in the whole group, including the new stadium.

Or have I got that badly wrong?

Raymond Fox
36 Posted 08/02/2023 at 11:41:48
Andrew 22, good post, I agree with all of that.

Sure Moshiri has not covered himself in glory the way the board has functioned and you could argue for some of the managerial appointments that have been made.

He has put a lot of money into the club though and deserves credit for at least attempting to improve our prospects.

The people scouting and doing the buying of players are the main culprits in my eyes. Kenwright needs to go for the benefit of all concerned, as for the others I don't really care.

I don't see £105m from MSP getting them 25% of the club and 2 seats on the board as well, but who knows it depends how badly Moshiri needs the money.

On the inquiry into Man City, you would have to think there are many more examples of murky dealings at other clubs if they really want to start digging.

John Pickles
37 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:10:49
I bet Sharpie is excited, he'll think he's getting help making the tea and handing out the biscuits.
Ian Pilkington
38 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:15:14
Barry Hesketh @ 34

We’ve been out of the elite for long enough, please don’t place us at the Brentford and Brighton level.

I want to see a complete buy out to get us back into the elite, which is where we probably would be now if Moshiri hadn’t made the catastrophic error of allowing Kenwright to continue as Chairman 7 years long years ago..

John Keating
39 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:15:30
separating the ground from the Club is my train of thought as well.
Could it be Moshiri is looking at investment solely in the Club whilst keeping the new ground solely his and doing something like a long term let to the Club until any possible future takeover materialises?
Derek Knox
40 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:15:47
Will these two seats on the Board be a new creation, or will there be two vacated seats ?

If so, I/we can hope, one is the Chair, and the other one is L'il Miss Dynamite's ! Not bothered about Sharp's seat, because he is like those dog's you used to see on the rear parcel shelf of cars back in the day, says f*** all but just nod's all the time, no matter what the motion is.

Maybe this is a clever move by Moshiri, well he can't be as daft as he portrays, as the Iranian Stan Laurel can he ? By bringing proper business people in, there will be serious puckerings in the nether regions of the aforementioned, and accompanied by " Oops the game's up, we better resign, my little Chickadee ". So, maybe not a bad thing after all, but as Brian H @ 11 says it seems a trifling amount for a Club of our standing !

Steve Brown
41 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:17:33
Based on that valuation in the investment bid, this won’t go through.

It wouldn’t make commercial sense for Moshiri to agree.

Tony Abrahams
42 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:20:21
It just confirms that the club is on the market “to me” and I think the sooner Moshiri can get away from the club, then the better it will be for all concerned. I expect more people are waiting in the wings, and wonder if 25% for a quarter of the club, is because of our very precarious position in the big league?
James Hughes
43 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:25:07
John #40 Separating the ground from the club is the way to ruin for the club.

Too many examples of the clubs then going bust to mention. But just recently in Rugby Union, Worsceter went bust but the playing side only. they had hived off stadium, training grounds and basically everything.

Sounds a bit too familair to me

Nick Page
44 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:28:50
Not bad this.

I agree with Michael though regarding transparency of stadium and club; seems like they are both one of the same legal entity so, as an investor, you can't really direct that capital – unless you have seats on the board and can then make a case for where money is spent. I think…

Moshiri will be diluted as new equity is issued to MSP, and Kenwright too as this is a secondary not a primary transaction (Moshiri isn't selling his stake and then putting the money back in).

Then these guys get two board seats to oversee their investment – their job is to make a return on this investment – and hopefully that will mean Moshiri engaging some proper management as this lot will agitate to remove Kenwright & Co because they're fucking useless and totally out of their depth.

That's all Moshiri needs to do in reality. The value of the equity will then grow as the stadium is finished – investors never pay for an Engineering & Construction project upfront; they risk it and, once completed, the value will rise. So these guys and Moshiri could cash out with a profit once all up and running.

You have to think of EFC stocks and shares as like being listed on the market and the market is heavily discounting the stock due to the poor performance of the team, the management board (losing money), and the financial cost (risk) of the stadium project consuming capital.

Moshiri can't sell up now as his stock is effectively too discounted. I can do all the maths but I'm quite busy but on the face of it, it's okay IMHO. Best thing the club can do now is survive in Premier League, then thrift in the summer.

But they need a BIG plan to attract new talent and should be scouting the markets with Dyche and team to play how they want to play and look to plug those gaps, putting players in the right positions. We can't do scattergun buying and big contracts anymore.

Jay Harris
45 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:32:33
The thought I had was this was Moshiris way of getting his money back and dealing with BK’s “arrangement “.
He leases the stadium back to the club and gets 2 people on board to control the interference of black Bill.

However this does not seem to fit that agenda.

As Michael says the stadium development is in the clubs books and Bk would still have the majority with DBB and Sharpy as his acolytes.

Moshiri is possibly lining other investors up with a view to buying BK out of his contract and then firing Sharpy who has been as much use as a tailors dummy and thereby wresting control from BK.

It still seems a strange deal to give 25% and 2 board seats up for 105m though.

One other thought I had was maybe the shares being bought are only the stadium holdings LLC which would make more sense seeing as we’ve spent about 400m on the stadium development so far.

Anyway the change in the boardroom is absolutely necessary and can’t come quick enough for me.

Brian Harrison
46 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:38:18
Maybe this information has been put out there to attract other investors/buyers. Bit like an agent telling a journalist that such and such a club are interested in buying his player and are prepared to double his salary. The journalist prints the story the agent then goes into discussions with the club saying as is being reported ? club is willing to double his salary, and the negotiations begin.

Whoever invests or buys it wont let us compete with the very wealthy clubs those days are long gone. Maybe we as fans need to reset our ambitions, rather than thinking we can compete for a Champions league spot, we need to be looking at the European Conference.

Raymond Fox
47 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:58:20
Tony as you say the very real threat of relegation that we face at this time has to have a negative effect on the value of the club.
Francis van Lierop
48 Posted 08/02/2023 at 12:59:11
I think this is what Mike Gaynes alluded to recently.

MSP Sports is run by Jahm Najafi & Jeff Moorad, the names he mentioned.

Anything to get rid of the present board is a big plus, plus of course more cash.

Only to be spent more wisely from now on!

Si Pulford
49 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:06:00
Is part of the thinking here that he’s selling a quarter of the club at a discounted rate (he wouldn’t sell the entire club for 420m) because he’s getting the expertise he was talking about along with the investment? Would explain the two seats on the board…

He sells 1/4 of the club. Brings on investment and expertise then his remaining 3/4s increase in value when the stadium is completed (especially if we escape relegation)

Could actually make money by selling a part of the business to make the overall business stronger. These billionaires are billionaires for a reason after all.

Just a thought.

Christine Foster
50 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:06:25
Michael, I pondered this a while ago and thought separating the club from the stadium would allow two bites at the cherry for Moshiri, indeed that's been in my mind since the stadium commenced. Given that Moshiri IS Everton, there is nothing to stop him, as he has full control of it, from splitting the company that is Everton into two entities selling one, the club, but not the real estate. Financially it makes sense and limits his liabilities. Plus it is then not directly linked to the fortunes of the team.
I think that's always been the plan.. but what do I know..
Jim Lloyd
51 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:08:25
If MSP are ivesting in the club, and the stadium is part of the club's identity, then Mr Moshiri seems to be putting the money he's putting in, through the club's books. Then that seems to me that MSP are investing in the stadium as well.

That investment, maybe, will help fund the extra money that the stadium will cost. Maybe then that will act as a starter for other investors to come on board when they can buy shares comparatively cheaply. One thing though, they evidently are keen on involving themselves in the the running of the club.

Which sound bloody good news to me, if they help remove that carbuncle on the club's backside, True Blue Bill!

I think, though, that I go along with Brian (51), we may no longer be able to have our sights on being a natural part of the top six, seven, or however many clubs get taken over.

I think we will have to set our sights lower, and the first step is avoiding relegation, if we can do that, there is a major rebuilding job to be done on the squad. The rebuilding job will not be easy and not done overnight. And as Brian says, maybe set out sights on winning cups, and eventual regulars fighting for European places.

First of all though, I look ion this story of investment as really good news; but lets see what happens in the coming months. At least it looks like we have a fair chance now, of taking the first, and hardest!, step.

Jim Lloyd
52 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:20:44
Oops! It's Brian at 47, he's moved address! :)
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
53 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:20:51
I am assuming that this is the purchase of 25% of the shares in the club which are owned by Farhad Moshiri.

Therefore the club will not receive a penny of this money, but Mr Moshiri will have £100 million more in his bank.

Can someone more enlightened (Paul the Esk) explain why the club benefits?

The only way this benefits the club is if Mr Moshiri gives the money back to the club in terms of loans or issues more shares.

Mark Ryan
54 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:24:20
Jim Ratcliffe, come on down. Forget Manure, the Qataris are stepping in there, come and buy us
Why does he have to be a Utd fan ?
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
55 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:29:01
"As Michael says the stadium development is in the clubs books and BK would still have the majority with DBB and Sharpy as his acolytes."

I may be thick here but if I had a company where I had 95% of the shares and called a meeting where we voted on who should be on the board, I don't care how many of the existing directors had their mates there, I would vote them off whether they liked it or not.
BK, DBB and the rest are there by the permission of FM, nothing more, nothing less. Can FM be bothered to get involved in the day to day running of the company with all his other interests? No. Without BK and DBB to draw the fire from the irate supporters would FM be in the firing line? Yes. Do BK and DBB do anything major without the approval of FM? 99% no.

The only cards held by BK, DBB and others are negative publicity about FM which they would have to use should they be removed i.e. Foreign businessman with no connection to the city or the club and just out to make a fast buck.

Nick Page
56 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:33:04
Apologies – my mistake above. This is a primary transaction so looks like EFC Co Ltd is issuing equity to MPS, and NOT Moshiri selling 25%.

So the cash goes onto EFC's balance sheet and the shareholding is diluted. Moshiri isn't pocketing anything. If I'm reading this correctly.

Mark Taylor
57 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:34:51
I tend to agree with Christine's speculation. I've said before that separating out the two businesses makes sense- for Moshiri and Usmanov at least. That could be accomplished within the terms of this transaction.

We will not be privy to the terms of the deal but few people stump up £100m plus for a minority shareholding with limited power in a small, unstable and low profit business like the average football club. One can therefore only imagine there will be a mechanic to further increase ownership along the line, so in effect a staged exit from the football side my Moshiri. Which surely would make perfect sense to him, to get away from the 'emotive' side of the business and stick with the calmer real estate side.

Where the £100m goes is also not clear. It could arise in new share issue and dilution of the current shareholders, with the money going in the business. But it could just as easily be selling shares to the new investors, in which case Mosh has £100m plus to plough into the newly separated real estate venture.

Two new directors gives us a quorum and no need for flotsam and jetsam in the form of BK and DBB. That would be a good outcome

Kieran Kinsella
58 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:35:39
Isn’t the stadium a liability rather than an asset right now? The raw lands cost was much less than the liability of the contracts to build it and it’s not generating income yet. So the new owners are taking on that debt rather than buying the stadium as part of the deal as an asset. Hence the low price.
Derek Knox
59 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:35:57
Make Kenwright hand that extremely heavy sofa over, so a team of Numismatists and Financial Experts can unravel it's worth, probably a few white fivers down there too ! :-)
Jim Lloyd
60 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:42:20
From all he's said. Nick, Moshiri wants to see the stadium built and I'd guess MPS would want the same. Maybe he's recognised by the press as the owner, the Mirroe's just used his name. Either way, I couldn't see mr Moshiri pocketing anything, until the stadium is built. Even then he may still wish to stay major shareholder of EFC. MPS evidently like to get involved in the running of any club they invest in, so in my purely un financial view, The completion of the stadium is a priority, or it's worth nowt.
Nick Page
61 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:44:32

It's both as the stadium is capitalised as it's built (asset) but there may be debt (and some provisions) on the Balance Sheet offsetting that. Not sure without seeing the Financial Statements. But it's not purely a liability.

Steve Shave
62 Posted 08/02/2023 at 13:56:43
Mike Gaynes was talking the other day about his hopes for this investment company to show an interest in us I believe? Mike any further thoughts on this? If it is the same investment group you certainly sounded positive about them. Interested to hear from you.
Bill Gall
63 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:00:17
As Everton F.C. are owned by shareholders with the majority shareholder being the owner, as per F,Moshiri, is he selling 25% of his shares to MSP that makes them the second largest shareholders of Everton F.C,

Brian #47
Those days are not long gone. Whoever wishes to become owners have to become the largest share holders with over 50% of the shares, these investors will be buying if that is the case 25% of F.Moshiri's shareholdings giving them about 23% of shares and second largest shareholders, that is why they want positions on the protect their shareholdings. It does not represent their net worth.
As Man City are finding out, it is how that investment can be used without running foul of the FFP rules. not how much the wealth of your owners are.

I may be wrong but I believe that is how MSP wish to invest in Everton F.C.

Brian Hennessy
64 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:07:44
I could be completely wrong but this idea of separating the club and the stadium terrifies me.

We have all said that the one good thing Moshiri has done for us is build the stadium. But if we end up with new owners/investors while Moshiri or someone else owns the stadium, does that not leave us as vulnerable tenants to a landlord that can charge us what they like?

Not sure we all signed up to the idea of demolishing Goodison to go and rent a stadium. As I said, I could be way of the mark.

Kevin Molloy
65 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:08:28
I wonder if a sale goes through for the club but not the stadium does Moshiri become the 'landlord from hell', squeezing out all the money, and leaving us not very much.

I've never trusted Moshiri (why would you) but then I see that the mad bastard is actually building us that beautiful stadium (I never thought he would), and I just think 'there's got to be a catch'.

sorry Brian just read your identical post.

Nick Page
66 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:16:01
I don't think Moshiri is selling.

If EFC Co Ltd is issuing new shares to the value of £105M – this is a primary transaction. The capital then goes on to the balance sheet and the number of shares increases. This is dilutive to current holders. The cash can then be used for stadium construction.

If Moshiri sold his stock – a secondary transaction – he would get the cash to do with what he wanted. Effectively cashing out. The only impact to EFC Co Ltd is these guys now have 25% and (likely) seats on board. No extra cash for EFC Co Ltd.

You absolutely do not want to separate the stadium and the club as the club will become a tennant. Same as in 1892.

The club has to capitalise the asset on its Balance Sheet, and get the revenues etc from it. Otherwise, EFC Co Ltd sell the stadium, get the cash (onto the Balance Sheet), invest that on players and rent the stadium (as a cost on the Profit & Loss Statement). The stadium owners could dictate all financial terms and would gain all revenues from this asset.

Dale Self
67 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:21:32
Good stuff Christine and Kieran.
Jerome Shields
68 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:22:13
'Everton confirmed the agreement in a statement on Thursday, which read: "Everton Stadium Development Limited (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Everton Football Club) and Peel Land and Property (Ports) Limited have formally signed an agreement for the Club to lease land at Bramley Moore Dock, Liverpool Waters.

"The lease, which is conditional upon gaining planning consent for the proposed new stadium and securing funding for its construction, will run for a period of 200 years at a peppercorn rent.

The Blues have secured a 200-year lease on the proposed site of the new stadium at Bramley Moore Dock
"The signing of the agreement is a significant milestone in the project and means Everton effectively now controls the land upon which a new stadium would be built. '

Sky News,

Don't see how the Stadium can be separated from the Club.

Eddie Dunn
69 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:26:59
Tony -good point. It's a bit like playing the stockmarket. Just a couple of weeks ago every man and his dog had us definitely going down. Now the pudits all think we will stay up. The carpet-baggers better get in soon or our price will rise again.
Mike Keating
71 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:27:58
Kevin @ 66 - we’ve had a rent dispute with a previous ‘landlord from hell’ (John Houlding) at our original ground. In 1892 he gave us notice to quit and we ended up playing at Goodison.
Houlding then founded a rival club and the rest is history.
Hopefully Moshiri doesn’t have any plans to do the same!
Mike Keating
72 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:30:34
Apologies Nick - was submitting my reference to 1892 while you were doing the same.
Peter Neilson
73 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:38:12
Interesting to see the photo of Pete Taylor, Jeff Moorad and Jahm Najafi of MSP Sports Capital at the Southampton game with the empty board seats in front of them. Wonder what they made of the threat shenanigans? Can’t have created a very good impression. Surely Bill and the Professor didn’t exaggerate the whole thing , at pretty much the last minute, to help deter this new threat to their positions?
Eric Myles
74 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:41:13
Michael #36, when you stated that on a post that aired a couple of weeks ago I did some digging around Company House and found that the Club relinquished control and ownership of the stadium which is now fully in Moshiri's ownership since December 2021.

At least that's how I read the situation so I posted links as well so those more conversant with such reports could check if I was reading them correctly.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
75 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:55:43
Technically, if more shares are being issued for the £105M, then existing shareholders (those of you still left other than Farhad Moshiri) should have the right to purchase the same proportion of the increase in shares as those you already hold.

So, if there are 1,000,000 shares and you hold 10 and they issue another 100,000 for the £105M, the club should also allow you to purchase 1 share at the same price (105,000,000 divided by 100,000), ie, £1050 each.

Obviously, Farhad Moshiri won't but the rest if you can take up the option. Stand by for the offer letters.

Nick Page
76 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:58:21
Everton Stadium Development appears in notes to accounts 2021, under note 12 as 100% owned by The Company.

Also in notes (Fixed Assets) you can see the Assets Under Construction capitalised at around £20M. Be interesting to see what has changed in 2022.

The truly horrifying bit is the net losses for 2020 and 2021 on the P&L (=£250M).

Eric Myles
77 Posted 08/02/2023 at 14:58:39
Moorad "served as partial inspiration" for the titular character played by Tom Cruise in Jerry Maguire. He was also a technical consultant for the movie.

Show me the money, Jeff!!!

@Nick Page, where are you getting your info from on the issue of new shares?

Tony Abrahams
78 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:06:33
I wonder why Kenwright, and his nepotistic disciples still remain? I think I’ve just read (Phil@56) that it’s to keep an eye on the foreign businessmen, that are out to make a fast buck? Although they haven’t got any power to do anything about this, except take the flak from the irate supporters. The very same supporters they actually tried to “throw under the bus” the other week?

I don’t think you’re thick Phil, because I’d do exactly the same thing as you would and get rid of the very inadequate people, who haven’t got the skill set to move us forward. How Moshiri hasn’t done this is absolutely ridiculous, and Everton, have suffered very badly because of this.

The smart money would be on a contract, that has let Bill Kenwright remain, but this is just speculation. But surely it would be better for Bill Kenwright to just leave, rather than take all this flak instead of Moshiri?

Bill Kenwright and his friends are no longer wanted, so I do wonder if it was Moshiri, that made sure there was a contract, just in case things never went according to plan? At least now he has somebody to take all the flak, instead of himself, especially because it’s already bad enough because he’s lost millions?

Or maybe Kenwright is our saviour, and he now realizes that Moshiri, might be able to separate the club, and the stadium, and he’s going to stay around to fight these plans, even though he brought Moshiri to the club?

The second best thing about Saturday, was that it badly backfired on the liars, that used their friends in the media, to try and blacken the good name of thousands of match going Evertonians, (oh dear, how do deceitful sick minds actually think?) and because their plan failed, they had no choice but to stay away, FOR THE GOOD OF OUR TEAM.

Eric Myles
79 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:10:29
Nick #77,

"The Company" no longer owns Everton Stadium Development.

Rob Halligan
80 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:10:31
Bloody hell, this is good, this is bad, Moshiri is doing this, Moshiri is doing that, it's a good deal, it's not a good deal, we own this, we own that, we don't own this, we don't own that, we're getting new board members, we're not getting new board members, Kenwright and Barrett-Baxwndale are going! (🤞🤞🤞) etc etc etc.

It's good reading all the different opinions about this, but I can't offer an opinion because it's all over my head, and I don't understand any of it!!

Mike Price
81 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:17:02
Didn't Newcastle sell a year ago for about £300 million, which included the stadium?

The price of the club benefits the seller, not the fans. Surely it's better for us if the club sells for a low amount leaving more to invest in the squad; that seems to be the case with Newcastle.

Eric Myles
82 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:17:36
Tony #79,

"I wonder why Kenwright, and his nepotistic disciples still remain? I think I've just read (Phil@56) that it's to keep an eye on the foreign businessmen who are out to make a fast buck?"

"But surely it would be better for Bill Kenwright to just leave rather than take all this flak instead of Moshiri?"

There was a thread a few weeks ago about "The Cult of Bill" (really, with an 'l' not an 'n'!) that explained all that.

Bill really does think he's the saviour of the club.

Nick Page
83 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:19:56
Eric - are you sure EFC no longer owns the stadium? Where has it gone?

I would have to see the 2021-22 accounts to see that as it would be classified as a disposal and major transaction.

Regarding the share issuance, I am speculating that it's a primary transaction and a dilution of the existing equity base. Otherwise it's a disposal by Moshiri. If they are however investing in Everton Stadium Development Ltd, which is now not part of EFC, then that's a different matter.

And if that has happened, why would they want a seat on the board of the latter given it's a different company? (I don't think it is by the way.)

Tony Abrahams
84 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:22:12
Eric is saying that Moshiri has separated the ownership of the stadium away from the ownership of the club, Rob, and if this is true, then who knows what the future holds?

It's an old trick, our Chairman has already done this with Finch Farm and something that would have cost the club around £10 million will end up costing over £80 million instead.

When Liverpool City Council bought Finch Farm and reduced our payments, Robert Elstone described it as a very innovative move. It might have been for the council but it definitely wasn't for Everton.

So, if this is true about the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, then it's very, very worrying news.

Joe McMahon
85 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:24:18
Please not investment. Saudi owners (if required) please, and the ugly board booted out! Kenwright hanging around after decades of failure, he is a cult.
Eric Myles
86 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:25:39
Not totally sure, Nick, but the Club transferred its stadium share to another company and ceased to be in control of it in December 2021.
Steve Boardman
87 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:40:43
Following on from Mark (55). The Qataris have offered £4.5 Billion for Man Utd. That puts our valuation of £420M into the shade. Basically they are worth more than 10x our value.

Emir of Qatar interested in buying Manchester United for £4.5bn

Just saying…

Tony Abrahams
88 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:45:56
This is why I hope and believe that Everton will get sold, lock, stock and barrel, for around £1billion this spring, but only if they can avoid relegation, obviously! 🤞
Kevin Molloy
89 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:50:41

I just don't see how we get anywhere near £1bn if Newcastle went for £300m.

A billion gets Moshiri most of his money back, but if I'm an investor and I can get Newcastle for a third of Everton I know which I'm going to go for.

Michael Kenrick
90 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:51:15
Eric is correct and I'm sorry I had not spotted this at Companies House.

Notice of ceasing to be a person with significant control of Everton Stadium Development Ltd was posted, effect 25 November 2021, stating that this applied to Everton Football Club Co Ltd. It seems that EFC was replaced by Everton FC Finance Ltd on that date; they hold directly or indirectly, 75% or more of the shares in ESD.

So it has been split off. More will be revealed no doubt in the 2021-22 accounts, due before the end of March.... but here's the bad news:

Kenwright, Barrett-Baxendale and Ingles are the Directors.

Allen Rodgers
91 Posted 08/02/2023 at 15:55:39
Mike @82,

I believe the freehold of St James's Park is owned by Newcastle City Council.

Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:00:10
I was wrong Kevin, I think it will be less but with the proviso to build the ground taking the price up, to around or even over a billion, but maybe I’m wrong, and Moshiri has already decided to move the goalposts?

Everton with a brand new ground on the waterfront, are allegedly a very good deal for whoever buys them Kevin, and with the way Football is going, I tend to agree with this.

I know what you’re saying Kevin, but firstly I don’t think you would get Newcastle so cheaply now, and secondly if United are worth so much, then surely it’s better for investors to buy cheaper, and try and build a club up, like the Arabs are doing at Newcastle?

Mark Taylor
93 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:10:34
Steve @88,

9 months ago, the Telegraph reported that Moshiri was looking for £1bn – half for the club, the other half for the stadium.

If that source was accurate – and it was widely reported and I don't think denied – then, unless our value has more than halved in less than a year (possible but not likely), that supports the idea that Moshiri is selling shareholding in the club and keeping the stadium separate.

Nick Page
94 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:16:05
Everton FC Co Ltd 2020-21 Annual Report & Accounts

Everton FC Finance Limited is also 100% subsidiary of EFC - look on Note 12. No panic.

Steve Boardman
95 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:16:43
Mark (94). I agree. That explanation fits in with all the other comments explaining how Moshiri has separated the ownership.

If we are worth £1bn, then Man Utd are only worth almost five times as much. Some consolation?

Michael Kenrick
96 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:22:38
And it gets more interesting.

Everton FC Finance Ltd was incorporated in December 2018 with a single £1 share held by EFC Co Ltd, the Relevant Legal Entity (owner) with Barrett-Baxendale as one of the Directors.

The company name was then changed to Everton Stadium Development Holding Company Ltd on 24 November 2021, with Kenwright becoming a Director on 4 June 2021.

No doubt some interesting shell game going on in preparation for the ongoing corporate shenanigans in relation to the stadium, its ownership and financing.

May need Paul the Esk's views on sorting this out as to what it means. Has anyone who tracks his work seen him publish anything related to this?

Nick: a lot of these changes taking place after the reporting period for the 2020-21 Annual Report and Accounts – hence the considerable confusion!!!

Jerome Shields
97 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:26:35
So the stadium is separate. This falls into line with my opinion that Moshiri & Co are more interested in a docklands development than Everton Football Club.

The club is being hived off seperately. The financing of the stadium is seperate and the £107million for new shares is a loan to Everton Football Club, with two further Directors positions.

I don't think Bill and Denise are going anywhere if this comes to pass. Kenwright, Barrett-Baxendale and Grant Ingles are nominal Directors only of the Everton Stadium Development Company, which is probably controlled by a offshore entity. The management of the Stadium Development Company being seperate. Obviously it is performance wise.

Is there a Premier League rule that the Stadium and Club have to be associated and dual Directors would fulfil that requirement?

Moshiri will be quids in, if this comes to pass.

Anthony Dove
98 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:27:14
What is this — a football version of Dragons Den?

Moshiri would have to be an idiot to take that price. Done deal then.

Peter Neilson
99 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:29:00
Everton FC Finance in turn had its name changed to Everton Stadium Development Holding Company Ltd on 3rd December 2021.

Not sure there's anything to be concerned about. It appears to be the same sort of company setup the likes of Arsenal and Spurs used for their ground developments.

Raymond Fox
100 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:31:29
What's the position with the Goodison site, when we move out?

Does Moshiri own the land to sell, if so what would that be worth, anyone have an idea?

Obviously the stadium costing a few bob to demolish is a negative.

Steve Boardman
101 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:34:53
Anthony (99), completely off topic.

Are you, by any chance the Tony Dove I worked with in the 1980s at Warrington & Runcorn New Town?

Jerome Shields
102 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:40:56

'Goodison Park Legacy project

In February 2021, Liverpool City Council voted in favour of Everton's £82m plan to redevelop Goodison Park into a mixed-use scheme featuring 173 homes and 51,000sq ft of offices. The approval followed the green light for the club's new Everton Stadium, which is now under construction and due to complete in 2024.

As well as the homes and office space, the outline proposals for the Goodison Park site in Walton comprise a 63,000 sq ft, six-storey care home, more than 107,000 sq ft of space for community uses, and 8,000 sq ft of retail and leisure space.'


Could Goodison Park be in a separate company as well ?

Mark Ryan
103 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:43:11
Perhaps if we keep asking Moshiri to fuck off, he might throw his toys out of the pram and sell the ground to LFC.

Sounds like a pile of crap to me. It once sounded amazing. It's beginning to give me real concern.

Oh for a Jim Ratcliffe to step up to the plate!?!

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
104 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:43:36
Separate companies. 🤔

So you can sell one and not the other — see Derby County.

Mark Taylor
105 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:43:41
I think it's reasonable to say that none of the visible structuring here says very much definitively. But, if and when this transaction goes through, things should be clearer in time.

My money is still on Moshiri focussing on real estate to get the money back to Usmanov and relinquishing control of the football club.

There are many different shades of grey in this. The new stadium and Goodison (Re-development Inc) could be held separately. Moshiri could keep a minority shareholding in the club for an upside. Equally the new owners could own a minority state in the real estate and/or a long-term use contract, with possibly an option to buy outright down the line.

This gets Moshiri off the hook in many ways and gives him a viable exit strategy.

Anthony Dove
106 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:44:26
Steve@102. That’s me. Hope you are keeping well. There can’t be many who survived the New
Town and forty more years of supporting Everton.
Raymond Fox
107 Posted 08/02/2023 at 16:55:21
Jerome 103, thanks for that,
Jerome Shields
108 Posted 08/02/2023 at 17:04:16

That was probably to objective from the start.Even though MoshirI put in a lot of money I away had the feeling he was quid's in investment wise.It also explains his arms length approach to running the Club.

As for Kenwright he has been the beneficiary of the asset stripping of the Club, throughout his tenure.


Thanks for asking the really good question.

Steve Boardman
109 Posted 08/02/2023 at 17:16:21
Anthony, (107). Blimey, small world. I'm fine apart from a lifetime of watching the blues. Hope you are well too.

I moved to Bristol in 1987 and still here. Cheers.

Jay Harris
110 Posted 08/02/2023 at 17:36:03
Phil #56,

Kenwright allegedly had a condition in the sale agreement that keeps him as chairman for as long as he wants, which is why I guess Moshiri can't or won't get rid of him.

Raymond #101,

Just to add to Jerrome's response, Goodison Park has a mortgage of £15M secured by Kenwright as part of his asset stripping and at last count had a land value of about the same.

Jay Harris
111 Posted 08/02/2023 at 17:39:23
BTW I am coming home from Florida for the Aston Villa game on the 25th and was hoping to take my grandson to his first match. If anyone can put me in touch with a couple of tickets I would be most grateful.
Mike Gaynes
112 Posted 08/02/2023 at 17:56:20

I am very excited about this.

OK, so here from your American cousin is what I know about these guys (quickly, because I have a Zoom meeting in 15 minutes).

MSP Sports is Jahm Najafi, minority owner of the NBA Phoenix Suns, and sports/media investor Jeff Moorad, the celebrated former player agent whom I interviewed once or twice back in the 1980's, and their partners -- one of whom, Crystal Palace investor David Blitzer, has been working with them on European footy club acquisitions. They own four clubs, the most prominent being Augsburg.

These are quality people. Najafi has handled himself with great integrity in the Suns' ownership scandal, which involved the forcing out of a racist, misogynist majority owner named Robert Sarver.

Moorad built a reputation for integrity as well (hard concept for an agent!) and his investment choices have been highly successful.

Pure opinion here: There is no way these guys show up at Goodison unless they are really serious, and there is no way they're going to settle for being long-term junior partners. I personally believe that this 25% is a nose under the tent flap to buy full control of Everton. Eventually.

That's all I have time for now. More later.

Iakovos Iasonidis
113 Posted 08/02/2023 at 18:00:13
Just read the trial of suggurdson begins.
Kieran Kinsella
114 Posted 08/02/2023 at 18:06:37

Not even a trial yet the CPS are reviewing evidence to see if there is a case to be made. Not sure why it took 2 years for the police to gather evidence.

Chris Leyland
115 Posted 08/02/2023 at 18:18:10
Jay Harris 112,

If not done so already, join the Everton Home and Away group on Facebook. All tickets on there are face value and people can usually get a couple of tickets from there. There's a list of trusted sellers on it too.

Failing that, look at Paul Cronin also on Facebook and a member of said group – he does match deals in the Segura bar on County Road. Includes a free bar, a match ticket, food after game and hosted by an ex-player.

Jay Harris
116 Posted 08/02/2023 at 18:27:48

Thanks so much.

I used to always have contacts when I was over there but the landscape seems to have changed.

Again thanks.

Duncan McDine
117 Posted 08/02/2023 at 18:53:13
Is Moshiri selling shares, or is this new money coming into the club (creating new shares), therefore diluting his overall percentage?

Surely it's only of interest if it's the latter, or am I missing something?

Andrew Taylor
118 Posted 08/02/2023 at 18:55:12
This does NOT value the club at £420m. It's not as simple as the maths suggests and says nothing as to the ownership or value of the part-built stadium as an asset.

It's for a minority stake, so discounted heavily. Buying the share that takes you past 50% is worth far more than each of the shares that got you there – as that would give you effective majority control over the club... you don't really need to buy the rest, so each of those subsequent shares becomes worth less to you as well.

Shares in Everton are not traded on a liquid market, nor particularly priced according to earnings or losses, so the price of each share (or a minority batch of shares issued) is not a very good indicator of the value to someone of controlling (yet alone owning) the whole club.

In addition, it could well be true that a lot of the value to Everton or Moshiri of a substantial minority shareholder like this would be in their expertise, contacts, and potential new revenue... and the buyers would know this and discount their offer accordingly.

Like almost everyone else, I hope if it's true it at least brings a sufficient injection of brains to the Board that they finally realise Kenwright's time is up.

Bill Gall
119 Posted 08/02/2023 at 19:01:12
Micheal #97,

This may have something to do with the statement put out by the club on the 26 July 2019:

Denise Barrett-Baxendale will oversee the work of Stadium Development Director Colin Chong and take responsibility for the new Stadium Project, including the delivery of the community-led legacy of Goodison Park.

Paul Smith
120 Posted 08/02/2023 at 19:13:52
Out today by Paul the Esk. All business matters re Everton discussed:

Everton Business Matters Special

John Chambers
121 Posted 08/02/2023 at 19:24:56
What I would like to know is how much are MSP worth? If at some point they were to look to buy out Moshiri to become the new owners, would they have sufficient funds to put in the club to pay off debts, as has just happened at Leicester City and to develop the team and club as appears to be happening at Newcastle Utd?

Politics aside I have wondered previously if Qatar may have become involved with the club given Tim Cahill's ties and his prominent position in their Aspire Academy but it seems they are now looking at Man Utd.

Robert Tressell
122 Posted 08/02/2023 at 19:43:08
Mike @ 113, I'm pleased to see your post because I was wondering if these were the people connected with Augsburg, Estoril and Alcoron who'd been mentioned a few weeks ago.

As all realists know, there already is a super league and we're not part of it. Possibly our best future lies as the senior part of an affiliated club network pooling resources, developing players etc.

Certainly Augsburg are developing young talent like the US striker Pepi and the Croatian striker Beljo. We could benefit.

It's not a very traditional model but being an extremely traditional (old fashioned / massively behind the times) sort of club has been a big part of our current problems.

Geoff Lambert
123 Posted 08/02/2023 at 19:49:51
Are we all assuming that it actualy is Farhad Moshiri's money?
I would think the Russian might have something to say about that.
Bill Gall
124 Posted 08/02/2023 at 19:53:33
Mike Gaynes
125 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:17:28
Robert #123, yep, same group.
Christy Ring
126 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:29:38
It's worrying that we don't know what Moshiri's plans are regarding the new stadium and EFC. Is he getting advice from Bill, who sold off everything?

But MSP, if they're going to buy 25%, will have checked the books, and investing in the club must be positive?

Anthony Murphy
127 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:46:42
I just hope the deal is done sooner rather than later – we will be stronger for it if we do go down.
Will Mabon
128 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:58:37
Looking to invest?

Can't stretch to the whole pizza?

How about a slice?

Contact Despereverton.

Jerome Shields
129 Posted 08/02/2023 at 20:59:42
Christy #27,

Moshiri appears to have been advising and doing himself, for what he and his mates got his billions for. Putting together complex investments that will eventually yield a substantial profit. The main profit generator in his Everton investment is the dockland development, the development of Goodison Park and the Liver Building on the side.

With Everton, he might be quids in eventually, but he is looking for others to now provide the capital. Bill's value to him is that he must've had some influence to keep sanctions at bay from the government and the Premier League governing body. Bill ran Everton, but not as Moshiri expected, having to get involved himself and providing more funds.

MSP will secure their money and make sure to get a return on their investment either by agreement or by effectiveness at Board Level. They may try to increase their shareholding and sell the Club to profit at a later date. MSP is a positive move when you look at what has gone before.

Mike Gaynes
130 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:00:26
Christy #127, that gets a big yes from me. These are smart people, and if they come in, it's because they see tremendous potential despite our miseries on the pitch.

Moorad wrote this last year:

"Fundamentally, investors are attracted to the disproportionate annualized returns available in sports, with limited relative downside risk. Rising valuations have shown to be uncorrelated to on-field performance or to the broader market cycles..

In order to achieve favorable risk-adjusted returns, investing discipline remains critical in an industry where emotion can easily take hold of the uninitiated. We believe it’s critical to evaluate both macro dynamics (trajectory of the sport, league management, league competition, regulatory environment) and micro dynamics specific to the asset (management team, brand power and digital presence, fan/sponsor loyalty, local market dynamics and real estate opportunities)."

They will have assessed all these factors in EFC. If they write the check, it's a powerful endorsement of the club's future.

Will Mabon
131 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:02:23
Spacebar, I miss you so.
James Flynn
132 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:06:40
Should note that, like Moshiri, Jahm Najafi is Iranian.

They've invested in the following clubs. Can't tell if they have a majority holding.

Those clubs so far:

Estoril Praia - June 2019

2019-20 season. Liga Portugal 2 season cancelled after 24 games (out of 34 games) with Estoril in 4th place.

2020-21 season - Won Liga Portugal 2 title. Automatic promotion to Portugal Liga.

2021-22 season - Finished in 9th place.

2022-2023 season - Currently in 14th place (out of 18 clubs) after 18 games.

AD Alcoron - Spanish La Liga

2019-20 season - Finished 10th out of 22 teams in La Liga's Segunda Division.

2020-21 - Finished 17th out of 22 teams in Segunda Division.

2021-22 - Finished bottom of Segunda Division. Demoted to Primera Federación.

2022-23 season - Currently in 1st place in Primera Federación, La Liga's 3rd Division, Group 1 after 22 of 38 games.

SK Beverin (KVRS Waasland - SK Beveren) - Belgian Football. September 2020.

2020-21 season - Finished 17th of 18 teams. Relegated to League B.

2021-22 season - Finished 3rd of 8 teams.

2022-23 - Currently 2nd place after 21 games.

FC Augsburg - Bundesliga. January 2021.

2021-22 - Finished 14th of 18 teams.

2022-23 - Currently 13th after 19 of 34 games.

They might also be into Danish Football Club Brondby, but I got tired of looking. Reported they made an offer last year.

Joe McMahon
133 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:08:25
Mike @131,

I so hope this brings stability and the beginning of a new Kenwrightless era.

Mike Gaynes
134 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:11:35
Will #129, I'm pretty sure these guys can buy the whole pizza with extra cheese, white truffles, Kobe beef and the oven it's cooked in. They don't lack for dough.

If they only take a quarter at this point, it's for one of two reasons -- either that's all Moshiri will sell them right now, or they want to make sure of the value (like staying in the Premier League) before committing to the majority share they've always taken in other investments.

Robert Tressell
135 Posted 08/02/2023 at 21:22:47
James, thanks as ever for going to the trouble.

What interests me about these guys is their focus on football / sport as a business.

That's not Moshiri. He can do the property but he hands over the sporting side. These people know how to deal with the stuff Moshiri has a blind spot to.

Don Alexander
136 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:02:36
And meanwhile, at a football training facility in Halewood near Liverpool...........
Will Mabon
137 Posted 08/02/2023 at 22:14:39

was playing there - but sad that things are as they are, if we were to be currently an investment "on test". The whole world and everything in it is becoming commodified.

I never wanted the big money, old-fashioned as it may be, but if the dough is to be involved it would be nice for a football fan as a pure buyer to step in as opposed to opportunist investors.

Mike Gaynes
138 Posted 08/02/2023 at 23:03:05
Will, that's the thing... these are bigtime SPORTS guys, although less so for footy. Najafi sits courtside at the Suns games, and Moorad is a sports maven across the board.

The passion buyer thing has certainly worked for Wrexham and their fans, but personally I'll be happy if we're bought out by people who actually know what they're doing.

Jerome Shields
139 Posted 08/02/2023 at 23:05:58

I remember years ago during the Johnson era coming across a Evertonian, who could not understand what was happening to his Club.I told him it was all about about money, rather than Football at Everton now.They was over Thirty years ago and it has never stopped being about money..

Michael Kenrick
140 Posted 08/02/2023 at 23:34:38
Thanks, Paul @121.

So on his podcast, Paul the Esk also says that EFC would issue new shares for MSP so that the money goes into the club and not to Moshiri. But then he says Everton would use it in relation to getting more investment to close the £300M shortfall on the stadium funding. (nb: The Echo seems to be saying different.)

He further claims that the 25% stake for MSP would mean 45,000 new shares issued to give a total of 180,000 shares outstanding. Now if those shares cost MSP £105M, then the current value of EFC (before the new shares) is only £315M.

Also, once the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is completed, the club should be worth around £800M, a fairly quick potential double-your-money deal for MSP on the cards, taking their 25% stake up to £200M.

Derek Knox
141 Posted 08/02/2023 at 00:07:48
Michael @ 141,

Assuming you are right, it still seems a small amount to me when you hear of what other Clubs are potentially going to be going for. Appreciated, it may be reflected by our current League position, which we all hope is temporary.

Again, assuming we go on a run, and are clear at the end of the current Season, would these figures alter or will they be carved in stone?

I have also wondered if this is a clever way, by Moshiri – and he can't have made his millions and billions by being the Iranian version of Stan Laurel – to force a boardroom shuffle and see the present incumbents scurrying off, or resigning, like rats from a sinking ship… but in this case, the ship is being re-floated.

Eric Myles
142 Posted 09/02/2023 at 00:33:17

I found the thread that I posted the Company House info on two weeks ago.


Post #34

Oh, I see you looked it up yourself.

Eric Myles
143 Posted 09/02/2023 at 00:48:46
James #113,

Could common ownership be a problem when we meet one of those teams in the Champions League?

Martin Mason
144 Posted 09/02/2023 at 00:57:55
£105 million is the value of 1 top player for 25% of a club of Everton's stature?

Football is really in a disgusting state with the whole game dominated and corrupted by a small cabal of players and agents. And we, the massive support and their face to the public?

We're customers who are to be treated with absolute contempt. The people who run the club are, unlike the top managers of well-run companies, unqualified chancers like our owner and board. And we're relegation candidates, and we sell out tickets for every game! It really is bizarre.

I know that football was such an important part of what was once working class life. The game has changed beyond recognition and beyond parody and yet we are unchanged really. The chancers and parasites come and go much enrichened by their short tenure and yet we are constant.

Phil Wood
145 Posted 09/02/2023 at 01:16:08
I would be a lot happier if it wasn't US money coming into the club.

After watching the Glazers and Fenway, Gillett & Hicks etc, I am not too sure their involvement would be positive to our future.

Moshiri is just trying to limit his losses before he jumps ship. I am very wary of any US investment as they have no love of soccer. It will be purely business, ie, whatever they can make out of our carcass.

Mark Taylor
146 Posted 09/02/2023 at 01:26:50
Martin, I hear your passion and we may be constant but it is also the case we are an ever dwindling proportion of the revenue, if the clubs's management have even the remotest commercial ability.
Kieran Kinsella
147 Posted 09/02/2023 at 01:27:38
Phil Wood,

I get the sentiment but what owners are good? Man City's seemed it until 2 days ago. Abramovich until political risk pulled the rug out from under him – and let's be honest, that could happen at Newcastle at any point.

You get cheap-skates like Ashley, conmen like Kenwright, fools like Risdale's group at Leeds. On the outside, Spurs and West Ham Utd seem well run but tell that to their fans.

You've got Pozzo's, the Belgium nutter who ruined Charlton, the middle Eastern crooks at Portsmouth. Mafioso Berlusconi in Italy or corrupt Agnelli. Honestly, I can't think of a “good owner”!!

Kieran Kinsella
148 Posted 09/02/2023 at 01:44:49

I think money has been an issue since the earliest days as Sam Hoare and Julian Fellowes showed in the drama about Darwen FC when they started secretly bringing in paid Scottish professionals disguised as factory workers. Accrington FC went bust in the 19th century then along came Accrington Stanley bankrupt in the '60s. The aforementioned Darwen went bust early on too.

As far as showing contempt for fans… remember the Ibrox disaster, Bradford fire or Hillsborough? Fans caged like animals in derelict or wooden pens not fit for purpose? Again this is something that's always been an issue.

And at Everton, while we may not like the fare served or the restricted views, we have some of the cheapest tickets in the Premier League. So yes, plenty of reason for gripes — but money problems, bad owners and poor treatment of fans are not new.

Danny O’Neill
149 Posted 09/02/2023 at 02:08:17
Up at some ungodly hour. Interesting read this thread. I've probably said all I can say on the actual topic within my understanding, so I'll go off on a tangent relating to Don's comment. Meant with the best respect Don by the way.

Halewood 'near' Liverpool? It's L26 and just across the road from Woolton and Hunts Cross.

Yes, technically it is Knowsley in terms of council, but it's Liverpool to me. Just like Huyton, Kirkby and Bootle, which is in Sefton, so technically is also 'near' Liverpool.

I'm a big promoter of Liverpool being a city region. Just like London and Manchester have done to great success. I'm not a fan of ruling a place out of the city because of some imaginary council boundary that we don't see when we cross a road.

It's always an interesting debate. In terms of 'passport', we would be ruling out our very own Peter Reid and Leighton Baines. On their side, Stevie G and Spit the Dog would be sent to the colonies. There are probably many more.

Apologies, it always makes me think. One city, one region, one culture.

As I said, I thought I'd come off-topic. Thank you Don for sending me off on one in these early hours!!!

Eric Myles
150 Posted 09/02/2023 at 02:32:56
Duncan #118, it's the use of the word 'equivalent' in:

"... a proposal for them to purchase shares equivalent to a quarter of those outstanding"

That could mean an additional shares issue rather than 'purchase 25% of the existing shares'.

Eric Myles
151 Posted 09/02/2023 at 02:47:58
Michael #141,

"He further claims that the 25% stake for MSP would mean 45,000 new shares issued to give a total of 180,000 shares outstanding"

45,000 is 33% of the existing shares, not 25%.

By my calculations Moshiri would still own 75.2% of the shares, keeping him in control of the stadium company.

OK, I see what he's done. Taken a 25% stake in the company as the basis of the calculation, rather than 25% of existing shares.

It's confusing that it is reported both ways, but Moshiri's shareholding would only be 70.5% if MPS have a 25% stake.

Dupont Koo
152 Posted 09/02/2023 at 03:44:38
The increasing funding cost at the market and Usmanov no longer a viable financial assistance certainly put Moshiri into a "Beggars cannot choose" situation, which would only help our effort of getting the current Board out.

Fingers crossed that there is more good news coming out on this front.

Duncan McDine
153 Posted 09/02/2023 at 06:26:21
Thanks to Paul Smith for the link, that Esk fella knows his stuff.

Eric, it looks like you were equally thrown by the way this has been reported. Either way, the figures (being so low for a large chunk of the club) indicate that we're one step away from seeing a different kind of banner at Goodison: “Closing Down Sale, Everything Must Go!!”

Steve Brown
154 Posted 09/02/2023 at 07:32:04
Basis of what Mike posted @ 141, the proposed structure of the investment makes great commercial sense to MSP and zero sense to Moshiri.

So either the numbers are wrong or Moshiri is desperate.

Eric Myles
155 Posted 09/02/2023 at 08:02:27
Duncan #156,

It's not even that there are two conflicting reports, it's the same report that leads to the two opposite interpretations.

Tony Abrahams
156 Posted 09/02/2023 at 09:01:02

That's a very good assessment of modern-day football, mate. The greed of the beast kills everything. Although it's hard to believe that this could happen to the world game, I do believe that, if football carries on the way it's going, then it's going to one day face the same inevitable outcome.

Hearing that the stadium is now a separate entity from the club, fills me with dread and fear. I just hope my thoughts are just unfounded paranoia but, with Bill Kenwright a part of the inner circle, my fears are not going to go away anytime soon.

Moshiri is now appearing to look like KEIOC during the Kirkby enquiry. I read they played dumb when there was nothing stupid about them. The difference being is that the people of KEIOC had Everton's best interests at heart.

If Moshiri is like Kenwright, then looking after Numero Uno will be his only objective. Tell enough lies and, one day, people will stop believing anything you say; swim with the sharks and, one day, you will be eaten alive.

I never thought I'd say this, but be careful, William.

Michael Kenrick
157 Posted 09/02/2023 at 09:31:56
Eric @144,

Apologies again, for missing your post on the other thread, which was a week ahead of me sticking my head in the same information trough at Companies House!

We reached pretty much the same conclusions re the subsidiaries, the accounts, the directors, the shenanigans... Where I would take a different view is Moshiri's ownership of the 1 (or is it 2?) shares in the Holding company — I believe it remains a 100% wholly owned subsidiary of EFC Co Ltd.

At incorporation of the Finance Company (in 2018), EFC Co Ltd were originally listed as the Relevant Legal Entity (ie, owner).

In 2021, the Finance Company changed its name to the Stadium Development Holding Company, but there is nothing I can see filed at Companies House under the Holding Company that removes EFC Co Ltd from its role as RLE.

So I think the Holding Company is still a 100% wholly owned subsidiary of EFC Co Ltd.

If true, then although the Stadium Development Company was made separate and EFC Co Ltd was removed as the RLE in (direct) control, it is now 100% held by the Holding Company, which is in turn 100% held by EFC Co Ltd!!!

Bottom line: ownership of the new stadium remains under the (indirect?) control of EFC Co Ltd, through the Holding Company.

Which begs the question: why make the Development Company a sub of a sub? What did that achieve if EFC Co Ltd still 100% control and own the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock?

Tony Abrahams
158 Posted 09/02/2023 at 09:43:10
Thanks for that Michael.

Why make a sub, a sub? That's the worrying bit now then! (For me)

Jerome Shields
159 Posted 09/02/2023 at 09:49:37
Michael #141,

Maybe Paul the Esk has missed the separation of the Stadium Development from Everton FC like the rest of us, except Eric.

I go on the basis that a share is a loan and the issue of new shares is a loan funded by £107million from MSP, with Director representation and probably an agreement. It has been reported that the stadium is to be funded from financial sources other than the Club.

But having said all that, shares can be complicated.


That timescale is normal for such case in the UK.

Jim Potter
160 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:08:05
Some very insightful musings above.

I'm just amazed that anyone who endured the Southampton game would ever want to watch another – never mind buy into the living nightmare otherwise known as Everton FC.

I wonder what the Uzbek puppeteer's plan really is?

Hopefully Usmanov is really out of the picture, as surely these guys will have undertaken their due diligence properly?

With what's happening with City's finances, we can't afford to have his podgy trotters still about.

Si Pulford
161 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:10:00
I think Chelsea spent more money in January on a few players than Newcastle cost the Saudis.

Food banks outside Anfield while Salah gets £1.4million a month.

The working man's game, ladies and gentlemen.

Dave Abrahams
162 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:15:52
Tony (158),

“Be careful, William.”

Tony, mind your own business. Come on, sharks – surely you can smell his blood, there's enough of him!!

Brian Harrison
163 Posted 09/02/2023 at 10:23:58
Seems having read most of the posts nobody is sure if the club will own BMD or that is the sole preserve of Moshiri, probably only he and the board know the real answer to the question.

Mike Gaynes who would know a bit more about these MSP guys than most of us reckons they have the money to buy the club should they desire to do so. but if James Flynn is correct a partner in MSP is Jahm Najafi who has invested in 4 football clubs in the last few years and none have been that successful. James does point out that he doesnt know if they bought all these clubs or just had part control. Also investing in the Premier league is in a different stratosphere to where they have previously invested.

Now you have to compete with nation states that now are starting to control the Premier League, and with both Man Utd and Liverpool soon to change ownership and the likelyhood that both are likely to be owned by Qatari or Saudi states then its getting to be very difficult for normal clubs to compete.

With more clubs being owned by Middle East countries or American owners my worry is just like the NFL there will be league games played outside this country. I also believe that the top clubs wont want to be part of any future TV deals, as they can make more money selling their own games to fans and probably a lot cheaper than Sky charge.

Michael Kenrick
164 Posted 09/02/2023 at 11:27:03
Jerome @159,

"Shares is Shares, Loans is Loans, and ne're the twain shall meet." – Bob Cratshit.

I think you're talking utter crap. Again.

I've always found shares to be remarkably simple, both in concept and execution.

Eric Myles
165 Posted 09/02/2023 at 13:21:35
Michael #157, thanks for that clarification (🥺🥺).

Not being conversant with corporate structure and Companies House reports I was hoping from my previous post on the other thread that someone could chip in.

I didn't see anything regarding RLE in those reports, only Person with Significant Control which seemed to me to have been taken away from the Club and vested in a body owning 75%+ of the shares, which I took to be Moshiri.

James Hughes
166 Posted 09/02/2023 at 13:37:12
In keeping with how clubs can be badly run. The Beeb had an article on Valencia. Too many similarities in terms of absentee owner, poor leadership and lack of strategy

Valencia: Former La Liga winners and Champions League finalists in turmoil

Jerome Shields
167 Posted 09/02/2023 at 13:55:08
Micheal #164

In the first investment book I ever read, a share was described as a loan by the owner to the company. The company is a separate entity from the owner of the share and those that hold positions in the company are paid as PAYE employers. The owner of the share can be awarded a dividend on his shares passed at an AGM. It could be described as interest.

You can tell your mate Bob Cratshit that shares and loans are more complicated than he thinks.

Probably will be 'monitored' once again when you find your argument is under pressure. I will be back.

You loss the arguement anyway when you resort to abuse..

Thank for your reply

Barry Hesketh
168 Posted 09/02/2023 at 14:00:02
James @166

Apart from the winning of trophies, Valencia's misadventures has more than a passing resemblance to our club.

The team won the Copa del Rey, defeating Barcelona in a thrilling final, and finished fourth in La Liga - but Lim reacted by parting company with manager Marcelino and director of football Mateu Alemany following disagreements over transfer policy.

"That was crucial towards the perception that Lim doesn't really care about the club's fate," says Polit. "Especially when you also consider his open conflict with the Valencian government and city hall, no investment in signings, repeatedly selling the team's best players for relatively low fees, a careless attitude towards the club's history, disrespecting the fans… the list could go on and on."

The managerial revolving door has continued to spin since Marcelino's departure, with his successors Javi Gracia, Albert Celades and Jose Bordalas all heading out after one season.

Peter Neilson
169 Posted 09/02/2023 at 14:13:05
It’s a shame Peter Lim wasn’t successful in buying the RS in 2010.
Ed Prytherch
170 Posted 09/02/2023 at 14:27:17
Eric 151, if the new share issue is 33% and they are all bought by the new investor then he will hold a 25% stake in the club. That is simple arithmetic.
Jerome Shields
171 Posted 09/02/2023 at 14:36:53
"Bob Crashit said he didn't believe there ever was such a goose cooked"

- A Christmas Carol.

Ed Prytherch
172 Posted 09/02/2023 at 14:47:46

Loans and shares are very different.

If you and a friend or partner buy say a property and you each put up half the investment, then you are the two shareholders of the investment.

If you borrow money to buy some extra property, you are still the two shareholders. The bank has no claim on your property unless you default on the loan.

If you really do know anything about investing then you should beware of companies that are highly leveraged, that is companies where the borrowed money is a large fraction of the net worth of the company.

Peter Neilson
173 Posted 09/02/2023 at 15:00:36
And short selling is epitomised by what Brighton did with Maupay.
Michael Kenrick
174 Posted 09/02/2023 at 15:03:01
It's just bizarre why someone would try to fuzzy up the clear distinctions that exist between loans and shares, dividends and interest. Why?

These words exits for a reason: as labels to specific concepts. They are not interchangeable, They don't mean the same thing.

The huge problem with the internet is it allows some people who seem to have a difficult grasp on reality to spout forth endlessly.

Jerome, what about The Flat Earth Society? I hear they are pretty popular these days. Perhaps they have a website you could frequent?

James Hughes
175 Posted 09/02/2023 at 15:05:21
Michael # 164.

Dealing in shares is simple... care to advise me?

I was thinking about when a company issue shares right. Your shares lose value as they issue X amount to raise capital.

Michael Kenrick
176 Posted 09/02/2023 at 15:09:39
Yea, James @175, here's Bob Cratshit again:

"Buy low, sell high."

Man... he's on the ball today!

Oh... did you just add the send part? Yes, new shares issued can dilute the value of existing shares. Unless the value of the company also increases.

Gosh… you're right; it is more complicated than I thought.

James Hughes
177 Posted 09/02/2023 at 15:39:17

Just been speaking to Bob and he sends his regards.

This scenario with possibly separating the Stadium from the club worries me.

Have you watched the film 'The Big Short ' It shows dealing in shares is far from straight-forward. Markets can be engineered to benefit the money people.

Anyway, I will look to buy low and sell high, gotta go 'cos Bob is calling again.

Dale Self
178 Posted 09/02/2023 at 15:51:32
Uh waitress, may I have some blue cheese dressing for this word salad?

And let's make special note that Michael Lewis's main thesis is that the left hand did not know what the right hand was doing due to some Glass-Steagall structures in place for proper governance at the investment banks in mortgage meltdown. That is simply not credible – the risk management desks had information.

Mike Gaynes
179 Posted 09/02/2023 at 16:24:37
This discussion has me more confused than Schneiderlin defending a free kick.

Brian #163, Najafi and Moorad are partners in MSP, not to be confused with MSF (Médecins Sans Frontières) or MSG (Madison Square Garden, Chinese food).

MSP is partnered with David Blitzer in Bolt Ventures, which is the recent buyer or part-buyer of the four European clubs. Separately, Blitzer owns a piece of Crystal Palace.

It's all one big pile. Of what, exactly, we will find out in due time.

James Hughes
180 Posted 09/02/2023 at 16:36:38
Dale. then how did most of the world end up bailing the banks out?

All the main banks in the UK received billions in support, really, far more than Covid has cost.

"Uh, Waitress, maybe Ranch would better dressing and can you call a cab for my friend?"

David West
181 Posted 09/02/2023 at 17:04:47
Sounds like this is a bargain at £105M.

25% … I mean in football now £105M is the price of one potentially world class player, or two Sigurdssons or two Richarlisons. It's not mega money by today's standards. It's not going to finish the stadium either. £105M would get swallowed in a £760M stadium project.

Is Moshiri worried we may go down and never get any investment? Wouldn't Moshiri get a better deal in the summer if we stayed up?

Are investors just waiting to see if Moshiri is willing to fund the stadium himself, then come in and invest without the risk? Or waiting for it to go tits up and buy us on the cheap?

If the stadium was built and our Premier Leauge status confirmed, surely at this price we are ripe for investment.

Is it the connection with Usmanov that's putting people off us? You have teams like Leeds, Wolves, Nottm Forest etc spending more than £105M in the transfer window. It seems like a drop in the ocean to me.

Dale Self
182 Posted 09/02/2023 at 17:29:33
Sorry James, the word salad was intended for the shares are like a loan talk. And I will let you say but I think we are on the same page as far as the bailouts go. Lewis while documemting fabulously comes to a conclusion that for me read like an apologist offering.

The banks knew CDOs and the tranched up products were oversubscribed which led to paperwork abuses (ahem) at MERS – the mortgage factory Lewis went the way of a Wahington Beltway reporter who did not want to lose their supply of exclusive material.

More countries should have done what Iceland did.

Jerome Shields
183 Posted 09/02/2023 at 18:06:29
Ed #172,

I was just describing a share as a loan figuratively, so as to explain what was happening in the case of the MSP £105 million, IMO, (not £107 million as I posted incorrectly previouly). Wish I hadn't now. Apologies to Micheal or anyone else it caused grief to.

Also, I apologise, Micheal for any catty response I made. I have a son suffering from a head injury this past five weeks, being staying in Hotels on and off close to him.

John Gall
184 Posted 09/02/2023 at 18:54:41
So a bunch of ruthless American hyper-capitalists want to throw us a bone, effectively 2½ Anthony Gordons, and we're meant to make room for them to gain influence in a club they know nothing of, and care nothing for?

What could possibly go wrong?

Andrew Heffernan
185 Posted 09/02/2023 at 19:02:26
A lot of crystal ball nonsense on here about shares and associated risk; the principal shareholder could easily issue preference shares at an agreed coupon rate to repay the 'investor' at a pre-agreed rate – with the shares held as security, with the preference shareholder having a secure right on return; and then cancel the shares.

This happens day-in & day-out with 1000s of multi million US$ investments in private companies. Standard practice... including the use of offshore centres for legitimate reasons; there are many ways to skin a cat.

Jerome Shields
186 Posted 09/02/2023 at 20:57:25
Andrew #185,

Try to explain it simply and then watch out for the so-called experts, still holding their BT share certificate.

Michael Kenrick
187 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:18:09
Jerome @183,

Sorry to hear about your son — that must be a real worry. Sounds like a protracted recovery too so it must be hard on you and the family?

No problem with the catty responses – I love cats. I'm tempted to advise you, though, to focus all the energy you can on him and not bother too much about the twaddle posted on here… but that will probably be taken the wrong way and used against me.

Funny, I nearly corrected your £107M number but thought... Nar... so well done for not only spotting that but correcting it yourself. See, I'm all for real news and fact-checking!

Neil Copeland
188 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:27:31
Jerome, sorry to hear about your son and I hope all works out ok.
Brent Stephens
189 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:29:12
Jerome #183 - all the best for you and your son.
Tony Everan
190 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:33:07
Jerome, wishing you all the best and your son a full recovery.
Tony Abrahams
191 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:37:08
Yes Jerome, I hope your boy is going to be okay. Keep posting though mate, because sometimes I find it a lot easier understanding your Double-Dutch, than a lot of the other twaddle posted on these pages!!
Jay Harris
192 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:46:52
I wish your son a full and speedy recovery.

In the meantime keep posting. It will take your mind off it.

Peter Mills
193 Posted 09/02/2023 at 21:54:34
Jerome #183,

Whatever is posted on here is, figuratively speaking, tomorrow's fish and chip paper.

Your son's health is not. It is vital. Very best wishes to him, and to you and your family.

Brendan McLaughlin
194 Posted 09/02/2023 at 22:02:00
Living nightmare, Jerome.

Hope your boy makes a full and speedy recovery.

Danny O’Neill
195 Posted 09/02/2023 at 22:09:35
Best wishes to you and the family, Jerome. And give my boy my best.
Lee Courtliff
196 Posted 09/02/2023 at 22:14:43
Hope your son makes a full recovery, Jerome. Good luck to you and your family.
Tom Fazal
197 Posted 09/02/2023 at 22:17:29
Jerome, whilst I enjoy reading your posts I don't often agree with them. However, I fully agree with you being close to your son, providing support and encouragement to him in his recovery. I hope all is well for you both (all) soon.

To all ToffeeWebbers - especially those who may also be facing health challenges - I hope all goes well for you. Visiting this site (especially during the past couple of years) has been a great help to me - long may your contributions (agreed with or not) continue. Michael & Lyndon thanks for all you do.

Danny O’Neill
198 Posted 09/02/2023 at 22:28:12
**give the boy my best
Jerome Shields
199 Posted 09/02/2023 at 22:30:36
A must admitted stuck in artic Glasgow's Hotels I become obsessed with the Dickheads who run Everton. Sadly found it a release.

Thank you Micheal, Neill , Brent ,Tony and Tony, Jay,Peter and Brendan.Back two days, flying back to Glasgow tomorrow to join my son to meet the Doctor to see the path forward.Hit on the back on the head by someone else's Surf Board.One inch cut that was glued. Looks like a slow recovery at this stage.I knew absolutely nothing about concussion before this.He was flying high, Masters and two month into his dream job.But such is life.

Kieran Kinsella
200 Posted 09/02/2023 at 23:05:12

I hope he has a full recovery. I had a head injury last year. Couldn't do much (no driving, work, seizures, blackouts) broken bones. It was a slow frustrating process but thankfully by the summer I was back to normal.

Each patient is different but I hope your son recovers very soon.

Don Alexander
201 Posted 09/02/2023 at 23:27:38
Just wait 'til Dazza reads that Kieran! All the best mate.
Paul Birmingham
202 Posted 09/02/2023 at 23:41:30
Jerome, thoughts and prayers with you and your Family, and for a full recovery for your son, from his head injury.

Eric Myles
203 Posted 10/02/2023 at 03:59:20
Mike #179,

Would their close connection with Blitzer and his part ownership of Palace cause a conflict of interest which the Premier League might not be too happy about?

And likewise with MSP ownership of those four teams, should we play them in the Champions League, or Uefa Cup?

Eric Myles
204 Posted 10/02/2023 at 04:01:13
Andrew #185, 🥺🥺🥺🥺
Eric Myles
205 Posted 10/02/2023 at 05:18:25
Re 203 or the new ESL?

New European Super League

Jerome Shields
206 Posted 10/02/2023 at 09:04:24
Thanks Danny, Lee and Tom.

Kieran, really reassuring hearing from someone who went through it. Thank you. Hope you are well.

Thanks, Peter, for your prayers.

Barry Hesketh
207 Posted 10/02/2023 at 12:49:08
The investment won't do any good, if it doesn't change the culture at the club. Do they not realise that 'banning' people for having an opinion is counter-productive? How about engaging with the critics and showing them what they are doing right?

Jamie Carragher has been banned from Everton by the hierarchy for correctly stating that Everton are the worst ran club in the league.Source: Watched Toffee

Jerome, I can only echo what fellow ToffeeWebbers have posted, best wishes to you and your son and hopefully he gets back to full health.

Stephen Davies
208 Posted 10/02/2023 at 19:28:24
Podcast tonight reckons Investment very close ( Source El Bobble usually very accurate)

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