Everton 1 - 3 West Ham United

Everton gave up the lead and then two shocking goals in added time to give West Ham United a thoroughly undeserved massive win at Goodison Park.

Everton made two changes as Onana and Beto came in for Gana, who failed a late fitness test with a groin injury, and Calvert-Lewin, dropped to the relatively strong bench, with Dobbin returning.

James Garner kicked things off with the Pickford hoofball straight in, Beto's arm in the face of Paquetá. Godfrey did better with a great ball down the right wing but Garner could not reach Doucoure with his pass. 

More decent right-fank passing found Beto but Harrison's cross was blocked. Everton re-treated for some unconvincing, if not downright dangerous playing out from the back that lost possession. But it was regained and taken up to Beto who shot well wide from a long way out.

Beto then did well to get off a cross that was inches away from Doucoure. Onana was next to test Areola with a deep cross. Tarkowski's deep crossfield ball was very wayward. Branthwaite had to get across and clear but West Ham found Alvarez who tested Pickford with a decent strike. 

Everton tried the fast outball down the left, which Mykolenko brought down well but he could not find a blue shirt. West Ham countered to win a corner off Harrison. It was a bit different and needed a decisive block before it was eventually cleared. 

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Everton then conceded a really poor corner with a dreadful backpass, Paqeta getting in behind McNeil but crossing too deep. Everton got really sloppy in midfield and Godfrey had to concede another corner. Mavropanos ducked as he headed it off his shoulder and just wide of the far post.

But it was worrying that West Ham were now seeing far more of the ball and the blue shirts were no longer getting far beyond the half-way line. They reverted to the long ball and at least had some play upfield, a cross punched out to Mykolenko whose volley was wild, as Doucoure was called for clattering Areola. 

More advanced play ended with Onana shooting from way too far out, his effort blocked. Tarkowski got the ball through to McNeil who found Beto in tremendous space but his effort was so low on quality, Areola had no trouble falling on the ball.

But a foul saw a set-piece chance that caused some havoc in the Hammers area but no clear chance. Godfrey did a tremendous job to stall Emerson, who then needed treatment. 

Harrison tried to get the ball forward for Beto but Areola was out very quickly to intercept. McNeil's cross was deflected into the side-netting, giving Everton their first corner, delivered to a crowd at the far post and defended for a quick West Ham counter that was well stalled.

Everton stumbled forward erratically and it was Mykolenko's turn to try and shoot from well outside the area, to no avail. Wet Ha resumed their attack and that was stopped, Everton moving upfield again to win another corner. Garner's delivery evaded Areola but another defender cleared it and they tried to counter again but so far it was something of an equal stalemate. 

Branthwaite's forward pass was too easy for Kudus to intercept and it almost led to another corner, Mykolnko getting a goal-kick off Coufal. Garner blocked Kudus for a central free-kick that Pickford launched back upfield for Beto and there was an almighty shout for handball by Zouma — he clearly lifted his arm to stop the ball. What would Pawson think, looking at the monitor...???

Penalty! Everton's first of the season, with no Ca;vert-Lewin on the field. Chance for his stand-in Beto: a dreadful attempt after a long, long pause, slow, to Areola's left, and easily stopped.  His saved was reviewed by the VAR but there was nothing wrong with it. In fact, it looked even worse by Beto on replay… What an absolutely pathetic effort!

There were 4 minutes added on but they just served to intensify the feeling of maddening frustration at Everton's shockingly poor quality on the ball going forward. Thankfully, West Ham weren't much better, and thus finished another pretty dreadful half of so-called Premier League football at Goodison Park. 

Calvert-Lewin on then at half-time? Don't be silly, this is Dyche in charge and Bumbling Beto continues his comical 'cameo'. He tried to feed The ball forward but Mykolenko and McNeil contrived to let it go for a goal-kick. 

McNeil at least produced a decent shot on goal out of nothing – Areola down well to save. Everton tried a quick counter through Beto and Harrison but his cross was blocked out for a throw-in. From this, the ball came through to McNeil whose goal attempt was also blocked. 

Bowen danced in from the wing through five players and got almost to the goal before he was finally thwarted. But out of virtually nothing, Garner swung over a lovely cross that Beto,  in plenty of space and just in the right place, headed down perfectly into the bottom corner. All is forgiven! 

A much better move going forward saw Harrison pause and then pick out McNeil crashing in who somehow found Areola rather than the back of the net. That really upped the tempo, a West Ham counter thwarted by Pickford before Everton launched another attack. 

West Ham then went forward, Kudus having his shot deflected wide of the post for a corner. From which, Zouma's header flew over Garner on the far post to destroy Everton's flimsy lead. 

Everton tried to play quick-ball, McNeil shooting again really from too far out, on target but very easily saved by Areola. West Ham responded but their attack was halted. 

Everton tried to build forward attacking moves along the ground only to fail with poor passes delivered kindly to the feet of a West Ham player. Beto pulled off a tremendous looping shot that looked like it might beat Areola but he stretched back and got a hand to it.

The corner was cleared off the line from Docucoure and then McNeil shot horribly wide.  [70 - 85]

The pace of the game was still good despite the changes, but the chances just wouldn't come as 5 minutes were added on.  West Ham got forward again and a ball across to Soucek was hammered home superbly from a wide angle through four players and past a despairing dive from Pickford. 

Pickford was upset about something and got booked for hounding down Referee Pawson. 

Everton won a late corner that was taken twice by Garner with exactly the same result: cleared by the first defender. West Ham broke at pace, Bowen setting up Alverez for an easy finish to make it 3-1 for the Hammers. Quite an astounding collapse by the bereft bumbling Blues. 

Everton XI: Pickford [Y:90+3'], Godfrey, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Mykolenko, Onana, Garner, Doucoure (90+3' Chermiti), Harrison (80' Gomes), McNeil (90+3' Dobbin), Beto (74' Calvert-Lewin).

Subs not Used: Virginia, Patterson, Keane, Young, Coleman. 

West Ham United: Areola, Coufal, Mavropanos, Zouma, Emerson (90+7' Ogbonna) , Souček [Y:90+2'], Álvarez, Ward-Prowse (66' Phillips), Paquetá (80' Antonio [Y:90+3']), Kudus (90+7' Johnson), Bowen

Subs not Used:  Fabiański, Aguerd, Cresswell, Mubama, Ings,

Attendance: 39,262

Reader Comments (302)

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Sam Hoare
1 Posted 02/03/2024 at 13:52:15
Beto and Onana starting. Interesting. I can see the Potueguese netting.
Andrew Merrick
2 Posted 02/03/2024 at 14:08:42
Wow, c'mon Beto, make your mark and stake a claim!!!

Need a solid midfield today and play with some attacking intent... xGxGxG!!!

Phil Smith
3 Posted 02/03/2024 at 14:22:52
Many have been calling for Beto, myself included. Think being booed off at Villa has had a far lasting damage done to DCL and I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t push for a transfer in the summer. Beto was surely bought as his eventual replacement, and Chemiti Beto’s, so let’s start playing the guy from the start and see if he can complete his metamorphosis from bambi on ice to a fully grown stag on beast mode.
David West
5 Posted 02/03/2024 at 14:46:03
At least its change, and gives them a little something to think about.
They will have been expecting DCL.
At least Beto has that little bit of unpredictability about him and could make something happen.
Frank Crewe
6 Posted 02/03/2024 at 14:46:50
DCL hasn't netted in 18 games. There's only "holding up the ball" play that any striker can get away with. Haaland would be benched by City if he didn't score for so many games. We have other strikers so Dyche has to give them a chance to show they can do better otherwise they'll be completely discouraged.
Nicolas Piñon
7 Posted 02/03/2024 at 14:48:04
Seeing Calvert lewin in the bench was a Matter of time. Come on Beto!! Come on you Blues!
Mike Morgan
8 Posted 02/03/2024 at 14:50:21
I'm pleased Onana and Garner start in midfield. Gives some youth and energy. Godfrey is a solid defender playing out of position, fine for away games but creates nothing going forward surely, Coleman, Patterson would be better to create more "some" chances. I think it's good to give DCL a break. My prediction is that he will come on with 30 mins to go and score. I'm concerned Beto is out of his depth, love his attitude but his touch is awful and no composure. Is he really worth £20m more than Simms as a DCL backup. I hope he proves me wrong.
Alan J Thompson
9 Posted 02/03/2024 at 14:50:46
One "unenforced" change barely has me thinking we are about to see some massive change in tactics.
Paul Kossoff
10 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:02:45
Any radio with the Everton game on?

James Newcombe
11 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:12:15
The commentary on the official Everton website is always good, Paul
Phil Smith
12 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:15:31
Same old us. Can’t string more than 3 passes together once we get over halfway…
Paul Kossoff
13 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:25:57
Positive play from us, McNeil just gave away a corner from the halfway line.
Paul Kossoff
14 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:25:57
James, I'm on the Everton site but no sound.
James Newcombe
15 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:32:15
It's working for me on the computer, mate - you need a free account (and to sign in) and then click the Live Audio button.

Alternatively there's the Everton app where you can listen on your phone… but again you need to make an account if you don't have one.

Pete Hughes
16 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:47:29
First penalty of the season, duly missed by Beto!

Only Everton eh?

Craig Walker
17 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:49:16
I’d put Pickford on penalties.
Alan J Thompson
18 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:58:05
I was pleased to see that we mixed it up with both the long ball on occasion and playing it out with some nice stuff at times. Onana was looking good but the rest of the midfield seemed right off, that is Doucoure, Garner McNeil and Harrison.

Beto missed a chance that DCL has been getting down the banks for and while I thought the penalty was unlucky they are the rules played these days but then how did it fall to Beto to take it as I'd have thought McNeil or Doucoure would have been the better choice or don't we have a recognized taker. A rather tame effort anyway, I won't even ask if we ever practice shooting. Should be 2 up at half time.

Michael Kenrick
19 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:58:14
I think if I was suicidal, it would be the pain of inflicting one's own demise that would stop me.

But having to watch and write about Everton's self-inflicted demise playing out before my eyes is slowly but surely leading me down that deep dark path. [Anyone affected by this theme should know by now where help is available if needed!]

Utterly bereft of any redeeming qualities. Well, that's not entirely true… but that's what it feels like.

Dyche, if he had anything about him, would lock Beto in the changing room and get Calvert-Lewin — all is forgiven — on immediately at the start of the second half.

Andy Mead
20 Posted 02/03/2024 at 15:58:24
That first half sums up being an Evertonian perfectly. I just knew he'd miss. Looked like he was heading for the executioner's noose before taking it.

Both strikers are a total embarrassment.

Ernie Baywood
21 Posted 02/03/2024 at 16:03:41
For a guy who 'puts himself about', Beto wins very little.

And like pretty much every Evertonian, he wouldn't have been my choice to take the penalty.

Pickford up for another week of being one the players with the most touches of the ball.

Harrison crossing to the first defender.

I get up at 2am every week for this.

Phil Smith
22 Posted 02/03/2024 at 16:05:59
Beto has put himself about and has done well as the lone striker, in general, but he looks totally shot of confidence as well. He never looked like he was going to score that penalty.

Not looking forward to this second half.

Ernie Baywood
23 Posted 02/03/2024 at 16:20:17
First cross to clear the first defender and we get a free header (or shoulder) in the box.

Si Cooper
24 Posted 02/03/2024 at 16:26:48
30 minutes to give the season’s efforts a massive boost!
Ernie Baywood
25 Posted 02/03/2024 at 16:32:57
I know he 'puts in a shift' but how badly would Harrison have to play before he'd be subbed?

Still hasn't managed to beat the first man with a cross.

Pete Hughes
26 Posted 02/03/2024 at 16:53:52
Yet another defeat!

For fuck's sake, Everton!!!

Danny Baily
27 Posted 02/03/2024 at 16:58:28
Wow. Fine margins but this run of results is completely unacceptable.

We've let a poor West Ham team embarrass us.

Neil Lawson
28 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:04:02
Bereft and bumbling. What a great headline and so apt. Get 4 points back and immediately throw away 3 of them.

There are no words. none that I can use publicly. Shameful and pathetic.

Ernie Baywood
29 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:07:16
LLLDDDLDDL. There were people on this forum during the week telling me that's not bad form. It's horrendous. 5 points out of 30.

Keep playing Harrison. Keep playing Mykolenko. Keep playing Godfrey.

They 'put in a shift'.

Gavin Johnson
30 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:08:20
What an embarrassing performance. I'm lost for words to say any more.
Frank Crewe
31 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:08:31
If we stay up this season, it will be entirely down to the sides below us losing and not us winning.
Sam Hoare
32 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:09:07
How on earth did we lose that 3-1?! The better team for most of the match but bad finishing (and superb goalkeeping) cost us once again!

I said before the game I thought Beto would score but that Godfrey would cost us (beaten in the air second week in a row to concede an equaliser).


Craig Walker
33 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:10:12
You just knew. As soon as Darren Griffiths on the commentary said “These don't scare me” — you knew West Ham would win. Does it time and time again.

We have three good players: Branthwaite, Tarkowski and Pickford. Mykolenko is much improved. The rest aren't good enough and that's the big issue.

Harrison is a poor and cheaper version of Iwobi.

Watch Villa lose now and ruin the weekend even further.

Paul Smith
34 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:12:20
Dreadful form. Lucky we are in chaos who Dyche would be sacked.
Alan J Thompson
35 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:13:36
I'd just started thinking that we should have come away from this game with more than a point only to be let down by some silly efforts.

Garner put in an excellent cross for the first goal and we could have had a couple more. I wouldn't blame McNeil for his effort being saved and their keeper was all that was keeping West Ham in the game.

I thought Harrison either has to be switched to the other wing or dropped as he just doesn't seem to be able to cross the ball on the run having to stop and switch inside. I was surprised when Beto went off as I thought Harrison would have been better subbed.

We gave away nearly all their goals as Tarkowski was just watching for the first leaving it to Godfrey to challenge for the header indeed I thought this was one of Tarkowski's worst games. The second goal too many of our players were just standing watching and perhaps the cross should never have gotten over in the first place. And the third! Garner makes a mess of the corner hitting the West Ham man a metre or two before the front post and then when told to take it again does the exact same thing and then plays a lazy pass that puts West ham away for a third.

A game we could have had sewn up at half time.

Oh, just one last point for those Refs we have in our number. Late in the game the West Ham keeper twice walks from one side of his penalty area to the other bouncing the ball, does this not count as releasing and then picking it up again and a free kick awarded?

Christine Foster
36 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:14:26
Harrison, Garner, McNeil dreadful and should be dropped, Doucoure non existent, Onana strolled through the game. Nowhere near good enough Dyche.. Another depressing week ahead.
Half that team need dropping or shipped out.. can't finish, can't defend.. no bottle, you know what happens next..
Michael Kenrick
37 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:14:57
Bloody cat jumped on my keyboard and deleted a whole section of my attempted commentary...

Don't think I have the will to recreate it. The scoreline says it all.

Joe McMahon
38 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:15:10
I'm not awash with money these days, but another home loss is the reason I haven't actually watched Everton since Dyche was appointed. If I'm going to part with £40+ plus travel and parking then there has to be something worth watching. As Ernie says, LLLDDDLDDL. Sick to death of no goalscorers, and it doen't make things better that I wanted Marco Silva not to be sacked.

The sooner we no longer have the dated 1970's manager Dyche and the Kenwright cursed Goodison, the better. I don't care what divison, just want to see a Everton team score somes goals before my times up. Sharing a City with Liverpool has never been so depressing.

Paul Kossoff
39 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:19:53
Poor finishing cost us, why? because we have a manager who admitted that extra training for the strikers is down to themselves not him. Well done dino. Practise makes perfect Dyche, print that on Finch farm walls, fkg moron.
Ray Jacques
41 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:23:05
I hate being an Evertonian, hate it. Not only are we perpetually shite but yet again I am 'grateful' that our closest rivals won. Rivals is probably the wrong word as we are light years away from them. The gap has never been so big.

Saturday afternoon ruined again and now Saturday evening I'm squirming on the sofa hoping Villa win so can't relax with a drink after a week at work.

The wife says I should abandon them as they don't bring joy, just grief, but I can't.

Hate them!!!!!

Arnez Desmond
42 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:23:15
Sean Dyche is overated. This Everton team on paper is good but is setup not to lose; they do not play to win. I'm sure SD will speak about xG stats all all but the fact remains the tactics are dull. The players confidence in moving the ball forward quickly is absent so they move the ball backwards all the time. There is no point pressing to win the ball back in the opposing team's half only to pass the ball back to defenders and the goalkeeper in your own half. One of the many terrible first half performances. I pity the fans to pay money to watch the games at Goodison. We need a forward thinking manager and I hope Everton does not renew SD's contract when it is up next season. A change cannot come quickly enough. Seriously Dross!
Sean Mitchell
43 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:24:29
Go away, Everton.

The mental health has had enough.

Deserve the drop and won't have the quality to bounce back.

I wish my kids liked another sport.
Far too heart breaking for them, this.

Ian Edwards
44 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:25:35
No win since December. Sleepwalking towards the Championship.
Dyche just sets up too negatively. Depressing stuff.
Arnez Desmond
45 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:27:02
Sean Dyche is overated. This Everton team on paper is good but is setup not to lose; they do not play to win. I'm sure SD will speak about xG stats all all but the fact remains the tactics are dull. The players confidence in moving the ball forward quickly is absent so they move the ball backwards all the time. There is no point pressing to win the ball back in the opposing team's half only to pass the ball back to defenders and the goalkeeper in your own half. With all the shooting practices we see in Everton training videos, none of these players can hit the target from around the edge of the box or in the box! One of the many terrible first half performances. I pity the fans to pay good money to watch the games at Goodison this season. We need a forward thinking manager and based on what I've seen this season, I hope Everton does not renew SD's contract when it is up at the end of next season. A change cannot come quickly enough and if possible at the end of this season. Seriously Dross!
Joe McMahon
46 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:27:37
Me again, then I'll shut up. What must Dobbin think when he's scores then us dropped. Never starts, then comes on today its seconds left. He looks across the Park and sees Liverpool yiurhs get aa winners medal. This is not the way to manage young players Sean Fucking Dyche.
John Charles
47 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:35:25
When is it the managers fault?
5 points from the last 30
Replicate that over the next 10 games and we will be down. Would maybe even of been down if we had no points deducted at all.
I hear we have no money to sack Dyche, that maybe be true but doesn’t change the fact that he should be sacked just more depressing that he won’t be.
Ed Prytherch
48 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:36:33
Harrison had umpteen opportunities to pass or cross into the box but almost everyone of them was blocked. He dallies on the ball as if he were Raheem Sterling but he is incapable of beating his man or two as he often gives them time to double up on him. But if Dyche rests him it will be for Ashley Young.
Also why was the ball given to Beto for the pen when Doucoure has shown he can score them more often than not?
As the US military would say "a Charlie Foxtrot."
Jim Bennings
49 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:36:49
This could be the game that relegated us I think.

I can't see us getting 12 more points this season looking at the away games we've got to play, most are venues we never win at and I can't really see us getting more than 7 points at Goodison from what's left.

Joe 46

You can't really compare anything at all what goes on at Liverpool with our club and that includes the youth system.

They are all robotically trained across the park and they are coached to become future superstar players.
Dobbin will not be anything of the kind.
I understand the clutching at straws I really do, but just thinking our young players will emulate what the Shite's do is not anywhere near the answer.

We are a club in rapid decline and downward trajectory and no end in sight.

Pat Kelly
50 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:37:07
I’m with the players. I can’t be arsed anymore.
Christine Foster
51 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:38:03
Therein lies the reason Sean Dyche will not be the manager to lead Everton out in their first season at BMD. Whilst acknowledgement of a dearth of quality in playing staff, the form is worse than any other manager Moshiri sacked. If 777 do come in and the club somehow escape relegation, then their first task will be to find another manager because, like it or not, the manager carries the can for poor performance, it's clear what ever is needed to get us out of this mess, Dyche hasn't got it. He won't be going anywhere this season but I truly fear for our survival now. The bottom of a barrel..
Alan J Thompson
52 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:39:56
Ed(#48); I think the US military use SNAFU which is Everton all over.
Derek Turner
53 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:40:55
'Bumbling Beto continues his comical 'cameo'.'

Really? What a comment. DCL has offered nothing for months. At least Beto stretches the defence and creates space for others to run into. Delighted for him in getting the goal. McNeil, Harrison and Onana were awful in comparison.

Iain Crawford
54 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:42:01
Michael 37 … thank the cat for sparing us.
Soren Moyer
55 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:43:47
A half decent and a slightly more contemporary/ progressive manager (not asking for too much) could do A LOT better with these players.
I just don't know how do we manage to make so many wayward/ stray passes. Hell, we can't even hit the ball properly, hopeless when taking freekicks, abysmal in corners and never do give and go/ one twos or pass and moves!!!
In a nutshell, we are crap from top to bottom.

we certainly need more than 4 points to stay up.

Gareth Williams
56 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:46:52
It's time for Sean dyche to go bring someone new in with fresh ideas
Bill Fairfield
57 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:49:23
Ok Beto scored, but he’s a chicken with no head and his first touch is abysmal. Just who scouts these players? Missed chances cost us big time again.
Mark Murphy
58 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:52:23
I had a “male over a certain age” medical test at 15.50 which meant I missed fro before the penalty to just before our goal. That was the best part of my afternoon.
I REALLY wish I didn’t care so much but I’m equally heartbroken and angry!
We are fcuking shite and it’s criminal!
Kieran Kinsella
60 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:53:42
Fortunately Peacock weren't showing the game – it was on USA, which I don't have, so I watched Brentford – a team missing their entire defense through injury.

It's just weird watching average players pass the ball, shoot accurately, run, etc I realize we have a lot of crap players but are they individually worse than Brentford's? Fulham's? Palace's?

Yes, you can pick a few stars out in those teams but likewise we have Pickford and Branthwaite. So why are we 10 games without a win with Old Trafford up next and that would have been followed by Liverpool but for their latest win.

And this with another likely points deduction hanging over us.

David Connor
61 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:55:08
Dinosaur football from a dinosaur manager. Go a goal up, sit back and let 'em score. Poor poor football management all round.

Admittedly, the manager can't put the ball in the net for the players but he has to tell them to be braver than they are. This is a real big worry as I can't see us getting out of the rut we are in.

Man Utd up next is the usual zero points from us. We may well be back in the Bottom 3 in the next 2 weeks with games running out fast. Sick and tired of relying on other teams losing games.

And on top of that, we have the twats running the Premier League to put up with. Poor recruitment has really come back to bite us on the arse. It may well be our last season in the Premier League for quite some time. And only ourselves to blame. The fans deserve so much more.

Roger Helm
62 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:55:33
Another weekend ruined, as Kenneth Williams said, what’s the bloody point?
David West
63 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:56:00
It's the same old story, missed chances, not finding the net with good opportunities, giving the ball away too easily, not managing the game to see out a draw at least.

Their keeper won them the points today, but it's not an excuse for not beating a West Ham side that could easily have been taken apart today.

Hard to see how we get wins, when we throw away leads, miss penalties, and gift opportunities to teams.

It's going to be a long couple of months to the end of the season.

This one hurts!!

David Hallwood
64 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:56:14
No win since December, appalling, purile anti-football, and worst than that appalling, purile anti-football, losing football.

The only reason Dyche has still got a job is that there's no one to sack him as we're rudderless, and we can't afford it.

But I for one cannot take it any longer, no substitutions till it's too late, surely he can see what we all see? Harrison was having a mare, he and McNeil should've been off before the 60-minute mark.

A reactionary coach in every sense of the word.

Denis Richardson
65 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:56:29
Have to say I actually laughed at the result.

Followed the game to about 80 mins then looked at the score around 5 and was just gobsmacked. Then, I actually started laughing ‘cos it was ridiculous. Could-not-make-it-up, even if you tried.

Football is football but just what is wrong with this club? It’s not normal. 11 years of Moyes followed by the turd of another 11 years. A full generation of just shite. More so actually as the half dozen years before Moyes were also crap. 30 years of crap.

Positives from the game? Forest lost. The end.

Now find myself supporting Villa, a side I’ve hated since the 6-2 reverse of ‘89!

Back to life and the kids.

Rob Dolby
66 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:57:09
Their Goalie was MotM by some distance.

Garner and Onana did well all game.

A lack of quality told in the end.

Soucek with the best goal he will ever score and a sucker punch at the end flattered them.

The Beto penalty and McNeil chance were big moments that changed the game.

We are a team totally bereft of quality and confidence. The system is built around Doucoure and, if he isn't fit, it doesn't work. Both wingers would have been rested if we had an average squad but we haven't.

Bad day at the office against our old dour Davey, the guy who Bill Kenwright made our highest earner, who walked out on us for nothing!

Special mention for the West Ham fans who came straight out of the 80s with their anti-Scouse stuff for 90 minutes.

Oh the joys of going the game!

Sam Hoare
67 Posted 02/03/2024 at 17:57:10
Highest rated whoscored performances by goalkeepers in the Premier League this season:

◉ Alphonse Areola vs Everton (9.74)
◉ José Sá vs Everton (9.42)
◉ Bernd Leno vs Everton (9.11)

I am not saying it excuses the results or performances but it feels very Everton!

Geoff Lambert
68 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:00:04
Dyche-ball… hoof ball — what do you expect?

Any other manager would have gone by now.

Tony Hill
69 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:02:54
It wasn't a dreadful performance. As ever, we have little finishing threat. The balance of remaining fixtures favours us and I expect us to do enough.

It's bad, certainly, but let's not surrender for no reason.

Everton's future must involve the exorcism of fear, as we all know. That fear cost us again today when Beto expected to miss the penalty.

We are a club drenched in low self-esteem while others are infused with the opposite. It's not luck – though often it's tempting to think so – it's about mental strength. Easy enough to diagnose, hard to cure.

I think we should stick with Dyche but I thought the same of Lampard.

Don't ever, ever give up – as the T-shirts rightly say.

Brian Williams
70 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:03:06
Geoff. We didn't play hoofball today.
Mark Murphy
71 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:05:17
Unless we are actually cursed, there is something fundamentally wrong with this club.

All the “younger” clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Fulham etc seem to adapt to the Premier League but we're still struggling on with the 80s “big club” model.

We need to rebuild.

Shane Corcoran
72 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:06:47
Sam, good teams don’t give the keeper a chance to save it.
Iain Crawford
73 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:06:59
West Ham were there for the taking today, they offered little. A team with an ounce of ruthlessness in attack would have put this game to bed.

Mark, I think, summed it up to perfection on the live forum. We have an (overall, not just in today's showing);

Top six defence
Mid-table midfield
Bottom three attack.

McNeil and Harrison are both bang out of form, not good enough service by a long way. Dyche obviously doesn't rate Dobbin at all, and the other option Danjuma is injured. So expect more of the same. Maybe we'll pick up the necessary four wins, on todays showing it's by no means certain.

Bill Gall
74 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:07:12
Well, I have booked to come back home in April and was planning to go to the games against Nottingham and I think it is Brentford the following week. But is it worth going to a game as it is depressing enough to watch on TV?

As Christine put it correctly, Dyche will most probably stay, but I don't think you can find another manager worse than him as the owner has consistently done.

The problem with Dyche is he can't change his methods but other managers have planned how to counteract against them. The last 6 games show this as, out of 18 points to be won, we have 4 points.

Also, out of the 20 teams in the Premier League, 17 have scored more goals than us. Defense will give you the maximum points but you have to score more to earn them.

Lee Courtliff
75 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:08:58
I don't think anyone on here, apart from maybe Joe McMahon, was against Dyche as much I was last season. Never rated him.

But, I didn't want to be one of those 'fans' who just complains all the time and calls everyone a twat!

So, over the summer, I decided that I would support the manager by ignoring his weaknesses and focusing on his strengths. Such as fitness, set-pieces, organisation and team spirit. And, in fairness, he surprised me in the first half of the season, after a slow start.

I thought we played some decent stuff, we'd won 8 games by the middle of December and probably should have won a couple more. I was happy enough.

But, this last couple of months have been some of the most dire and defensive performances I've witnessed since the Walter Smith days. It's getting harder and harder to defend him when he churns out the same rubbish week after week.

A couple of weeks ago, we were at home to a struggling Palace team and we'd gone over 2 months without a League win. This should have been a game where we really went after the opposition from the start and slayed them.

Instead, he started the game with a near 40-year-old playing on the right fuckin wing!!! Bizarre.

I've never rated Dyche as I'm from Burnley and saw them play many times during his reign there, he was just another Big Sam to me. I really hope he can turn it around but I'm fearful he'll just turn us into another Burnley who sign and play pensioners and eventually get relegated.

He has no Plan B whatsoever, no other way of playing, and his in-game management is atrocious. Let's hope he proves me wrong.

Mick O'Malley
76 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:09:08
Geoff, definitely I'm praying every night til he is gone, I'm embarrassed he's our manager.
Kunal Desai
77 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:18:31
Kenwright's legacy lives on.
Will Mabon
78 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:18:43
Mark @ 58:

your eyes should straighten by 8 pm or so and your farts will re-tighten to standard octave by morning.

Post 72 - rare Tony Hill cameo spotted.

Sam Hoare
79 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:23:21
Shane @74,

I don't think there's much doubt that we are not a ‘good' team at the moment. Sadly we are quite far away from being a ‘lucky' team as well, as those goalie stats suggest. It's not a good combination.

At least Forest lost and Luton looking like following suit. Maybe 30 points will be enough to stay up this season!!

Sean Mitchell
80 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:28:26
A curse?
The Gods?
Bill Shankley?

Something is, and has been for a very long time, very wrong and abnormal about this football club.

Is there a cross upside down at the club somewhere?
Is the devil a Liverpool fan?

Stephen King would have a field day writing a book about Everton.

It's the supernatural, dark forces and god knows what else involved.

I hope Kenwright didn't do one of these Ouija boards some years back.

Kevin Edward
81 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:29:22
Shocked, I thought that if we scored first then we would go on and win. Saw the 1-0 on here, so went out. Checked back in at 5 pm, and was gutted.

We just cannot help ourselves can we, manager, tactics, a keeper on top form, they all make us feel like chumps. It's right, as many have said, that losing becomes a mentality, a fear factor.

We need some winners and fast, limping towards the end of the season may not be enough this time. A further points deduction might sink us.

I can't see many leaders on the pitch. Other clubs at the bottom will be looking at us as there for the taking.

Christy Ring
82 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:29:57
Could someone tell me why a striker who's on the bench all season, takes the penalty?

We have 2 wingers with no pace to even try and pass the fullbacks, and Harrison can't even cross the ball.

Dyche brings on Dobbin and Chermiti in injury time when we go 2-1 down, they should have replaced our 2 wingers at half-time.

Dyche's tactics are baffling.

Dean Williams
83 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:31:14
Dyche and Co need to go. Take Harrison too, he's shite
Neil Tyrrell
86 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:36:29
Worrying that defence is meant to be our strength yet we can't see out wins or even a draw, today.

Our home form this season is unbelievably bad, I feel sorry for season ticket holders. Goodison has become the opposite of a fortress and the sooner we move out, the better.


Barry Rathbone
87 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:37:48
Thought we might get a point but the team aren't good enough to carry the expectation and exasperation of Goodison.

Hopefully being on the road for a few games might help.

It's nothing to do with Dyche – he can't magic up decent players – and the idea any permutation of this squad can attack their way out of this stupor is utter tosh.

Tony Hill
88 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:39:18
Thanks for noticing, Will @79. I had another of my flounces off but the editors have yet again indulged me.

We share, I think, a type of pessimism and scepticism but I am weirdly optimistic about the future of our club – always assuming that the planet is not incinerated, as Eugene correctly noted earlier this week.

As Arthur Balfour observed: "Nothing matters very much and few things matter at all" (or something like that). But Everton matter, damn them.

Mark Ryan
89 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:40:56
Sleepwalking with Dinosaurs. A new Attenborough documentary about Everton under Dyche.

I posted prior to today's match and was told I was wrong by some. If we stick with Dyche, we are down. Sadly, I expect we will stick with him. He's a boring manager, who talks shite and plays boring football with a complete defensive mindset. I hate watching his football.

Hopefully Newcastle will eventually do what all the rich clubs do and ditch their British manager and go continental. At that point, we need to open the door for Eddie Howe to take the reigns and become our next manager.

He'll bring the good times back. Until then, we are sleepwalking into the Championship. Sad times.

Will Mabon
90 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:41:26
Sean @ 80:

welcome to the "Something-in-the-Fabric" club; first new member this season, as far as I've read.

It's like one of those things believed for years to be a conspiracy theory (an awful term), only to be shown as fact. Can't be unseen, no going back.

This club has no meetings, no newsletter, but the members are here with you.

Tony Mace
91 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:42:20
Pathetic shit show
Ian Bennett
92 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:43:08
Incredibly poor performance today. Harrison and McNeil were dreadful, kicking it out for a corner summing up the contribution first half.

The quality just isn't there, end of story.

Jim Lloyd
93 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:45:33
Awful, just Awful! I was going to call it total shite, but it wasn't that good.

I didn't know it was 3 -1. I left me seat in the Upper Bullens with about 2 minutes of added time to go, I couldn't bear to watch it any longer, though just hoped we might sneak an equaliser. I didn't even know they'd scored a third!!!

Stating the obvious here. We will be extremely lucky not to get relegated, even without the bent Premier League coming out with the "Independent Commission's" 2nd foregone conclusion, oops sorry, fair judgement!

No need to catalogue all the misplaced passes, telegraphed moves, poor shots, and terrible excuses for attempts at goal, Our only penalty this season, I think; missed, open goals missed.

Give their goalie credit though, he was a decent Goalie, but he could have got the deck chair out and read the echo at most of our attempts to score!

The two wingers... Onana, poor... well, to be honest, I honestly can't remember seeing any of them meriting more than a 5... and that's being generous.

One of me mates has just texted and he's said he's done with them. Hopefully, he'll calm down and come with his kids next season... but I'm not betting on it.

Mal van Schaick
94 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:46:55
Like Everton, I am bereft of ideas and answers to that performance. Garner was our best player, but the tired pass at the end of the game gifting them the goal spoiled his effort.

I agree with #82 regarding the wingers. McNeil needs to be benched and Harrison is inept at crossing.

Time to give others a chance in a wholesale reshuffle.

Will Mabon
95 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:47:40
"It's nothing to do with Dyche, he can't magic up decent players, and the idea any permutation of this squad can attack their way out of this stupor is utter tosh."

Barry, tell that to the four-game home-and-away winning run straight after the deduction.

It's Dyche.

Jeff Armstrong
96 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:50:27
Garner seems to be getting a free pass every game, his contribution today and against Palace was woeful, but he was still better than Onana, but he is a low bar.

This team is definitely better on the road, they cannot cope with the weight of expectation at Goodison.

Jim Gore
97 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:57:52
64 years of following this club and I'm gutted, I can't remember such a poor team.

Why doesn't anything change? It's the same stuff every week.

I know there's teams below us, but I watch a lot of games and we look the poorest team in the Premier League by a mile.

Rob Jones
98 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:57:56
Will, how the fuck is it Dyche's fault that Garner can't put a corner in? That Beto can't score sitters? We dominated today, and got picked off by a world class goal, and then a counter attack after Garner shat the bed.
Dave Ganley
99 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:57:56
Sick and tired of the Dyche apologists. No he's not helped by some awful players but any body who was there today could see Harrison and McNeil weren't at the races but kept both on until the very latter stages. I thought Beto played ok, he was certainly giving west ham problems all game, so what does dyche do? Takes him off. He certainly didn't look like he was struggling. No game management, no change of tactics when things aren't working, no enterprise at all in fact. We do the same shit every single week and get exactly the same results. We are Burnley now.

Christ knows what dyche does in training because it's certainly not practicing ball skills or shooting practice. We do have some half decent players amongst the garbage but they are dragged down to Dyches level. The most amusing thing about the Dyche apologists is that most of them slag Moyes at the first opportunity. They seem to forget that Moyes inherited a team almost, if not as bad as the one we have now and not only kept us up but also finished 4th the following season and yet Dyche is doing a good Job and Moyes was dogshit!! No I don't want Moyes ba k but Jesus, at least he made us competitive again after years of neglect and here we are back to square 1. All Dyche and the players have done is found new levels of incompetency in front of goal and in defence. Yeah dyche and his Burnley style is doing a sterling job. Fucking disgrace the way we manage to find new ways to pluck defeat out of the jaws of victory.

The only way we avoid relegation is if other clubs have a bigger meltdown than us. Remember 10 years ago we finished 5th, now look at how low the bar is set, ffs

Will Mabon
100 Posted 02/03/2024 at 18:59:07

one wonders about the frequency and implication of that phrase, "the weight of expectation" in modern times.

Isn't it a given in professional top-level sport?

Jeff Armstrong
101 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:00:56
Dyche ‘s subs are so premeditated it’s ridiculous, Beto scores our first goal for years from open play but 75 minutes pass and who comes on for who ?
DCL, straight swap, totally pointless sub.
Harrison off Dobbin on wide right? don’t be ridiculous, Harrison off, Garner wide right Gomes on, so 2 positions altered for the sake of one.
Dyche has the imagination of a caravan site.
Colin Glassar
102 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:02:11
We have 11 games to save our season. 33 points to play for. I honestly can’t see us getting more than 9 points from those games.

Has the fat lady sung. Is it time to accept that it won’t be third time lucky? I can’t see Dyche turning this around but then I can’t see any alternative to him seeing as we can’t even afford to sack him.

Dyche would’ve been a decent coach in the 70’s.

Geoff Williams
103 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:04:00
We can't afford to sack but at the same time we can't afford to let him take us down. We are a very poor version of his Burnley team.
Mark Tanton
104 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:04:43
The truth is we deserve to go down and nobody would miss us.
Keith Gleave
105 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:05:30
I have said this before, the tactics are totally wrong. It’s no use just chucking the ball up and hoping. If we have two big guys put the crosses in and attack them. If you insist on long ball, at least play a smaller quicker player off the big guy. Alas that football gets you no where.
Paul Smith
106 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:08:52
777 were there today. Ask them to loan us the money to pay Dyche off at whatever interest rates their moody lender request's. It'll be worth it to stave off relegation,
Kieran Kinsella
107 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:09:37

The dinosaur remark is insulting. A Diplidocus could create a sonic boom just by wagging its tail, Dyche could never make such impact.

The thing that worries me is that this is looking like Dyche’s last year at Burnley. Every week based on his past record I thought he’d turn it around but he never did until finally they had a brief renaissance immediately after he was sacked. We can’t afford to sack him so it’s immaterial but I hope he finds his Mojo.

Jeff Armstrong
108 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:12:37
Kieran, his mojo might return just by trying something different, he’ll never know until he does, cos what he’s doing now ain’t working.
David Vaughan
109 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:14:47
Just back from the game. What is the point?
Brian Williams
110 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:15:36
Who would you bring in to replace Dyche?
Anthony A Hughes
111 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:18:46
The buck stops with the manager. He decides on style of play, team selection, tactics, substitutions, training drills etc.
Yes the squad isn't the best but what is being served up by Dyche is drivel.
He's there to improve the team through coaching ability, he's failing miserably.
We could go into April without a win this year.
Paul Smith
112 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:20:52
No idea Brian. I'm just a spectator who wants more for my money.
Will Mabon
113 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:25:03

of course there are individual player errors and poor personal performances on the day; that's the game.

These have all featured in ten games of some of the most negative, safety football that appeared as if by a flipped switch after our cup exit.

Most of almost all games since have looked and played out the same. It's Dyche's set-up, structure, instructions and game management that delivers this.

How did these players win four good games on the run, followed by the terrible ten with no wins?

Anthony A Hughes
114 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:25:10
Digne done us a favour
Jeff Armstrong
115 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:25:29
And people can criticise the current manager without having to name his replacement.
Pat Kelly
116 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:25:58
Good man Digne
Oliver Molloy
117 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:26:28
Letting Beto take a penalty when hasn't fucking earned it if you get me is down to Dyche and the captain - you just knew he wouldn't convert - and had he been given another opportunity he would probably have fucked that up to.
We have strikers who can not score, wingers who can not cross, midfielders who can't fucking shoot, and the likes of Godfrey who didn't even attempt to block the cross for their second goal.

We needed three points today and our manager fucked it up again !
Digne doing his best to help us just now !

Paul Smith
118 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:27:12
Digne to the rescue after pro active subs from Emery. We missed the boat with him - Emery not Digne but both would do.
Will Mabon
119 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:30:10

that means nothing. I can get annoyed with a motorbike without knowing what I'll replace it with.

Andrew Cronin
120 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:30:17
The Ginger Dinosaur out foxed again. Our home form will send us down. Can't defend Can't score toxic situation getting worse with every game.
Will Mabon
121 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:33:32
Tony @ 88 ;-)
Pat Kelly
122 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:34:55
Sweating over Luton. Says it all.
Phil Greenough
123 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:36:36
An ex Blue to the rescue, how sad has this become?
Joe McMahon
124 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:39:29
For what it's worth. I'd have Seamus in charge to end of season. I'm not in favour of old blue boys network, but he can't do any worse than 5 points from a possible 30 can he. And who knows the football on show may be more pleasing on the eye. We will go down with Dyche.
Sean Mitchell
125 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:40:41
Will #90

The lights are always on, but no one is home and haven't been for a while.

Dyche probably sorts the post as well (most consist of debt letters and other worldly weird stuff).

Ian Riley
126 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:42:30
The most tragic part is, we are hoping for other clubs to save us.
Jerome Shields
127 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:51:17
Had a difficult day today.Glad I missed the match.Only got the result now.
Jerome Shields
128 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:51:17
Had a difficult day today.Glad I missed the match.Only got the result now.
Ray Robinson
129 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:51:35
Strangely enough we lost today because at 1-1, we decided to open up and go for it. With a bit of luck and better finishing, we could have won it but, with their superior attacking players, we gifted it to West Ham. It proves to me that we cannot play a more expansive game. Keep it tight and nick one is probably the only way out of this mess.
Trevor Bailey
130 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:57:33
Look, for all you Dyche haters out there.Yeas he picks the team,from a basically poor squad. is it Dyche who misses "the sitters"
Is it Dyche who misplaces passes misses penalties?
No. it's the players. Some are ok,most are pretty poor.
I'm interested in who the resident experts on these pages think should replace Dyche and why.
fact is Eveeton have been awful for the past three years and pretty crap for the last ten or so.
We have no divine right to beat any team and therin I think lies a problem.A sense of entitlement,Everton should beat team x y or z
Why? Are we a big club? Absolutely not.
Answers on a postcard please,would it be better to spend a season or two in the championship,regroup and sort ourselves out or should we just carry on the way we are?
There are no more excuses, or maybe in the words of Kenneth Williams, infamy infamy, they've all got it infamy.
Pat Kelly
131 Posted 02/03/2024 at 19:57:53
A friend of mine is a paleontologist. So I have it on good authority. T-Rex wore Sean Dyche pyjamas.
Soren Moyer
133 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:00:28
We cannot play a more expansive football because we don't drill expansive football at Finch Farm! Whatever practice and tactics we emphasize on during the week we showcase it on match days.
Its as simple as that.
Dave Abrahams
134 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:00:51
Dyche doesn’t help himself with the timing of his subs although there is very little to chose from and use.

From the off today the fear from the players was very obvious, poor passing, misplaced passes, no looking to where they were passing, backwards being the first thought mostly, more poor performances than good ones.

Through all this poor play chances were missed including the penalty we have waited for all season, same in the second half although the performance wasn’t as bad, chances still being created,a good goal was scored, not held onto for very long with a badly defended corner scored inside the six yard area(?).

Subs being used didn’t improve the prospects of a winning goal, two later subs, after WHU scored their second goal while two men close to the scorer, made no attempt to thwart the effort and another one from a breakaway after two poor Everton corners and a bad pass.

Depressing again to win at home and the only good news came from the results of our rivals to go down, with the last one another nerve racking last few minutes where Luton looked just as likely to score the winner as Villa and a former central midfielder who ran the game for them shining again, pity he was never as consistent for us as he is now.

Another weekend spoiled for those of us who support Everton FC.

Dan Parker
135 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:03:46
Thank-you Lucas Digne!
Brian Williams
136 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:08:11

Of course they can, but when they state "he's gotta go" or "he needs to be sacked" or similar, then that isn't criticism that is making a statement, an exceedingly pointless statement, unless it's followed by a suggestion as to who would be a suitable replacement.

Iain Johnston
137 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:13:16
We don't have goal scorers, that's the crux of the issue.

Today we had 11 shots on target, the most of any EPL club and converted 1.

Rob Dolby
138 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:21:44
Trevor 130.

Not sure if anyone has noticed but for the past 4 seasons we haven't invested in the squad and sold our best players due to psr or ffp.

Replacing Digne with Mykolenko,
Loaning average players,
Losing Sigurdsson,mina,bernard
Having to sell Rodriguez, Richardson and Gordon.

But it's obviously Dyche's fault as he sets up the team whilst we have a star studded bench all waiting to come on and change games. 3 full back game changers on the bench today.

People saying stuff like 'glad I missed the game' or hoofball or dinosaur tactics are either totally in denial with our situation or football genius's who know how to get a tune out of this squad.

We have a bottom third prem team, if we survive this season we will go down next season as we still won't have a pot to piss in.

We will need to sell at least 1 of onana, Pickford or DCL to balance the books and bring in more loans and free transfers to keep us in the league. The new manager Coleman will be deemed out of his depth and another manager brought in.

Good job I have renewed my ticket for next season otherwise I will miss all of the drama whilst people will still post stuff like glad I missed it or could be bothered listening but we are shite and hoofball analysis.


George Cumiskey
139 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:21:49
The manager is supposed to give the players confidence and a game plan and a plan B if it's not working and for me this manager gives nothing of the three I've mentioned.
Nick D
140 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:22:06
Too many had poor games today. Harrison and McNeil were awful in the first half, and we rely on them for attacking content. Godfrey did alright on the right as a defender but contributed nothing offensively. Not his fault but if we are to get anything from the right flank, we need Coleman or Patterson there

But a special mention for how bad our crossing was. Almost none got past the first man and when they did, we scored! Don't know if it was fear, lack of ability, lack of application or all three, but without an improvement we are going to sink into even more trouble

Dale Self
141 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:22:17
Spot on Ray. Not so much Pat.
George Cumiskey
142 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:26:52
Rob @ 138 are you saying Dyche is getting a tune out of these players and we'd get good money for DCL ?
Barry Rathbone
143 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:28:12
Trevor Bailey 130

Well said but you're pissing against the wind stating inconvenient fact.

Apparently a manager is out there who can turn this crew into an entertaining, cavalier force to sweep us out of this malaise in a trice.

People bridle at the suggestion Everton fans are complicit in our demise but getting after yet another manager does make you think

Mick O'Malley
144 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:32:44
It’s all right saying “who-do you want”as manager” because the fans don’t employ them or pick them, all I know is Dyche is no better than the one who have gone,before we are on a shocking run, it’s looking like the games we won after the reduction was a reaction, a purple patch, the style of football is atrocious primitive Shite, we are absolutely shocking to watch, no wonder we are always last on MOTD, even if we had better players Dyche would still serve up the same cowardly shite, I hate that he is our manager, I hate watching his boring cowardly shithouse football and I hate the garbage he comes out with, I’m praying for the day the fans chase this no mark out of our club
Rob Dolby
145 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:35:12
George 142

I don't see anyone else getting anything more from this very limited bunch of players.

There isn't a manager in our history who has had to deal with the off pitch antics out of the league and the financial restrictions they have shackled is with.

It's a credit to Dyche that he has got us where we are, the team lack quality but don't give in, don't forget we have earned 6 more points than current showing.

The same players would have thrown the towel in under Lampard or benitez.

Please tell me how you would set up differently to get better results.

James Marshall
146 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:41:09
Sacking Dyche would do nothing but make us worse - why anyone thinks changing the manager again is going to suddenly change our fortunes just doesn't make any sense.

Continuity is what we need, since we've gone through countless managers in recent years and what has it done for us? It's created a Frankenstein-squad, a team of misfits and under performers in almost every position, now cobbled together by Sean Dyche, trying his best to get some points out of them as best he can.

Yeah he plays a pretty dire style of football, but in truth we have 31 points on the board (or 25 as it is) with about 11 games to go and that is actually pretty decent given the shit squad we have. What exactly, and who exactly do people think is going to come in and change things with the same players?

Where would we get the money to fire Dyche and all his staff? And then where would we find the money to bring in a new manager and all his new staff? Seriously, people just blurt stuff out without thinking at all about the practicality of the situation, and the fact that as a club we're on the very brink of potential bankruptcy as well.

You do realise we're being propped up by 777 Partners to the tune of close to £200m and counting? Everton doesn't have a pot to piss in, and you want a new manager - it's cloud cuckoo land truly.

Anthony A Hughes
147 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:43:36
On the basis that the manager is unaccountable and blameless for the results then why not put the tea lady in charge and save £3 million a year. It'll help with FFP
James Marshall
148 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:48:09
Anthony – because you'd probably have to pay out more than that to sack him and his staff.

Everyone is an expert on fan forums – it's why we're all football managers.

Rob Dolby
149 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:50:36
Anthony @147,

Has anyone said the manager is blameless?

The way we are going, we won't be able to afford a tea lady.

Brent Stephens
150 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:54:56
I think Dyche could be more ambitious with the timing of subs; and be more ambitious in giving the likes of Dobbin a good run; and in sometimes (within games) changing the formation to give the front man more support.

But, with a couple of exceptions, this is a journeyman squad (hell, look at the bench) – so any new manager would need to sort all that as a starting point (by the by, I thought we missed Gana today).

A(nother) top class manager wouldn't be willing to come; so we'd end up with another journeyman manager to try to get a different tune out of a squad that would have Andre Previn covering his ears).

And that's before you take into account the fact that a new man would bring his own methods which would take a while for the squad to get used to.

I guess we screech with Dyche until the end of the season.

Dave Lynch
151 Posted 02/03/2024 at 20:57:46
Bottom line is this... we are stuck with a clueless manager, who wouldn't know how to play decent joined-up football to save his life; he couldn't at Burnley and he can't here.

We're stuck with a squad who... let's be fair, are not being coached effectively, because the style of play showcases that.

We have no money, no direction and IMO no hope of staying in the Premier League at present because our current form showcases that as well.

I'm resigned to Dyche being here till the end of the season and, for all his faults – and there are many – he is our only hope because of our current predicament.

Hold on tight, boys and girls, it's not going to get any better in the short term.

Soren Moyer
152 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:01:09
If Calvert-Lewin is that shite, how come he scored 22 goals in that season when Ancelotti was in charge?

And if it is not the manager and his tactics, why can't he score even if his life depended on it!?

Ian Riley
153 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:01:19
James #146, 100% agree!!

We were sinking well before Dyche came in. Hopefully he keeps us above the line. I said in August survival is success and it really is.

John Keating
154 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:03:34
Sorry guys, we are fucked.

Nightmare result.

Ian Horan
155 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:10:04
Just don't renew Dyche's contract. He has 1 year after this season. We will lose Gomes (out of contract), Young (don't renew), Coleman (coaching role).

Sell Keane for the value of his outstanding contract, Holgate the same. Send Harrison and Danjuma back.

We are a shambles of different recruitment strategies. We have to bite the bullet and go for a full reset. I am sick and tired of every weekend getting ruined.

John Raftery
156 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:11:50
From leading 1-0 with half an hour left to losing 3-1 with two goals scored in stoppage time was hard to stomach. This was a game in which our players passed the ball through midfield to a greater extent than they have done in recent weeks. They enjoyed the majority of the possession.

Unfortunately they possessed neither the quality nor the poise to capitalise in front of goal. Missing the penalty did not help, obviously. The missing ingredients in our play could be found in abundance among the visiting players. Paquetá and company were full of tricks, invention and pace which had our defenders frequently on edge.

In the end though, the match was decided by better finishing on the part of the Hammers who were also owed a debt of gratitude to their keeper for making several smart saves.

Goodison ceased to be a fortress a long time ago. Our away form in the last year has held up reasonably well. With the next three games away from home, we must hope it continues to do so.

Under Dyche, we have yet to win a home game in which we have conceded. The message should be first and foremost to stop conceding. Back to basics, defend and counter-attack is the only way this group of players will deliver results against any but the very poorest of teams.

It was interesting to hear people last week saying Beto deserved a chance to start in place of Calvert-Lewin. Then, when he does start, people call for him to be hauled off after 45 minutes.

Paul Hewitt
157 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:23:59
Would an attack-minded manager not get more out of these players? Our goal-scoring record since Dyche took over is terrible. Defensively we have improved but, if you don't score, you don't win games.

Funnily enough these PSR rules might just save us. I can see Forest getting at least 6 points deducted and going down.

John Raftery
158 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:34:35
Paul (157),

The problem is not that we don't attack. We create plenty of shooting opportunities. The problem is that we don't score enough goals from those opportunities to win games.

Today I saw a team pouring forward into the West Ham half in the minutes after we went 1-0 up. McNeil had a great chance in front of goal but failed to convert. Two minutes later, we fail to defend a corner and it's 1-1.

Don Alexander
160 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:39:14
"Doing the very same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity!"

The quote resonates because even a child can understand it.

Our problem is that Moshiri never could, and the demise of the club he paid our greatest ever shyster to run (and he signed some 24 carat shysters!) is the sole cause of the massive hole beneath our waterline.

It's been there for decades, getting ever bigger.

If we survive this season it'll be there next season.

Letting off steam to Dyche and the squad is understandable but really quite beside the point sadly.

John Raftery
161 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:46:04
Don (160),

Given nobody can undo the past, what can be done about the present and the future? What can be done with the squad as it is now?

Danny Baily
162 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:47:06
A massive slip up. This leaves us Burnley, Sheff Utd, Forest and Brentford at home as winnable games. We won't win them all of course, so throw in a draw or three and we could get to 37 points.

Assuming a further points deduction, that could leave us with close to 30 points. The forest PSR decision will likely be the deciding factor when it comes to our Premier League fate. Bookies still have Forest and Luton as the more likely to go down.

Rob Dolby
163 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:49:17
Paul @157,

I don't think we have much to play with, attacking-wise.

We aren't seeing the best from Harrison who is being played wide right but can't cross with his right. Not sure why the likes of McNeil and him don't at least swap sides every now and then.

Dobbin deserves more game time as the wide men don't have any threat to their place.

Calvert-Lewin defo needs to stop running the channels. Watkins interviewed after tonight's game said his game has changed under Emre as he doesn't need to run channels leaving his energised to attack the ball down the middle.

Dyche hit upon the formation with Doucoure as an attacking centre mid and hasn't deviated from it since, the only problem being if Doucoure isn't firing the system breaks down.

I think the goalie, 2 centre-backs, today's 2 centre-mids and Calvert-Lewin have to play every game.

The rest of the team, formation etc can be swapped and changed but there isn't much quality outside of that.

I don't know enough about the academy teams but we seem to get beat most weeks without anyone raving about the next Rooney.

Imo our hope is to stay in the league and pick up some freebies in the summer that have a bit of quality about them.

John Keating
164 Posted 02/03/2024 at 21:57:01
I had our season mapped out:

3 points v Palace
0 points v Brighton
3 points v West Ham

So far 2 out of 6.

Where do our points to survive come from? I really don't know. We really are shite going forward, how we miss so many chances, it is unbelievable.

Individually, we are okay; as a team bloody awful.

From being a realist, this mob has got me being a pessimist.

Don Alexander
165 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:06:14
John (#161),

As a football "business", we've been rendered hopeless by the Gruesome Twosome (the antics of the Premier League pale into massive insignificance compared to what those two did to us all year after useless year).

When things are hopeless, a miracle is needed, but I ain't a religious bloke.

We're fucked, for years to come – no matter how devout us Toffees are.

Jeff Armstrong
166 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:12:52
Can there not be a discussion about Dyche and his shortcomings without the smug and lazy question of, “who would you bring in then”?

We all know there is nobody running the club day to day, Dyche's position is secure for at least the rest of the season, we can be barely afford to pay him, never mind get rid of him and bring someone else in. That doesn't mean his negative tactics and poor in-game management cannot be dissected and discussed on this forum without the obvious ridiculous question of:

Go on name someone better.

Go on.

You can't can you.

Playground behaviour.

Danny Baily
167 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:15:34
John @161,

This squad is capable of stringing together some wins. Another 4-game winning streak and we're as good as safe, even with a 6-point deduction. We have 4 or so winnable games left.

We just need some luck.

Sam Hoare
168 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:15:34
A fair amount of reactionary and somewhat dramatic stuff on here tonight. Which is understandable given the poor run we’re on.

A few facts to consider:

As others have said, we should be on 31 points with 11 games to play. That would be decent.

We are far from certain to relegated. Most bookies have us around 5th favourite at 7/1.

We already have as many wins as we did all last season, despite having sold some of our best players. We’re improving.

We may set up defensively but we created plenty of chances todays. We had 22 shots with 11 on target, more than twice West Ham.

I know a lot of people hate xG but most models have us around 8th/9th in the table (the implication being that we’ve been unusually unlucky/profligate).

We could sack Dyche and of course results are foremost but no new manager can ensure that average players start finishing chances more regularly.

Tony Abrahams
169 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:19:44
John @161. Even though I thought we were the better team, for a lot of the game, we lost.

You watched the same game as me judging by what you wrote @158, but we both know goals and missed chances change games, especially when we missed a great chance to double our lead, and then Zouma equalized a few minutes later.

With the club being rudderless, I doubt there is anyone prepared to sack another manager. With exasperated anxiety never far away from the voices in the stands, I think the only thing to suggest is that we have got to stay behind the team and stay calm, even though everyone feels like fucken screaming.

Dyche has got to quickly start freshening things up. Although we were unlucky to lose today, certain players look tired and it becomes very, very draining, watching them stay on the pitch for 90 minutes. Also, it's very draining watching two fullbacks who never really want to get forward and join in with their partners ahead of them.

Mark Ryan
170 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:27:18
Jeff @166,

They can't have that discussion because they are all in denial. Dyche is killing us. It's as plain as the noses on our faces but, because of all the off-field shenanigans, he's getting credit.

Truth is, I think we are stuck with him and it's a very sad state of affairs but, if anyone thinks he'll save us this season, they are wrong. He does not have the foggiest idea of how to change a game.

Brendan McLaughlin
171 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:39:29
Jeff #166,

Of course there can be a discussion of Dyche's shortcomings and there's plenty of mileage in that.

But when people want him gone... asking who would you replace him with isn't unreasonable.

Mark Murphy
172 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:46:36
Mark, of course we can have that discussion - but who would make the difference?
We’re not a sleeping giant.
Danny O’Neill
173 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:49:24
Just home after a long day that was challenging with travel issues.

I'll reflect tomorrow when I think about it.

We played well. Didn't take our chances and could have easily won that.

Two suckered punches in added time.

Difficult to digest right now.

Brian Williams
174 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:51:50
Jeff #166.

Asking who do we replace him with of someone who posts "We need to get rid of Dyche" isn't lazy or smug, it's the obvious question to the statement. If someone says he needs to go, then it's reasonable to expect them to have someone in mind to take his place and improve us.

Mark #70, I'll have the discussion, I'm not in denial. If he's killing us then who should we get in to save us?

It's all well and good and also very easy to decry Dyche but, if you can offer no idea of who we can get instead, then all you're doing is pointing out that he's shite.

That's not having a discussion, it's not offering anything constructive, it's merely stating the bleeding obvious without being prepared to offer anything more despite what Jeff claims.

Ant Purcell
175 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:53:51
Our fucking players are shit, they let us all down, week-in & week-out. The manager is looking like he doesn't know what to do now. It doesn't look good.

I bloody hope I'm wrong but again it's gonna be other teams that keep us up as it has been for the last two seasons really, and the fans … but luck will eventually run out. We've been badly run for years.

Ernie Baywood
176 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:54:24
Sam, we're not improving. We're getting worse.

Every month that Dyche is in the role, we double down further on the defensive long-ball approach. I can see that we are playing worse and worse and, lo and behold, the rate at which we win points is following that trend.

No, I'm not a fan of xG. It tells us that teams that miss chances are unlucky. Over any decent period of games, you count out luck. It's now a theme in our performances. It's also heavily skewed by matches with poor teams who came to Goodison, absorbed our best efforts and then beat us. That's not bad luck.

It doesn't matter this season. I believe we'll stay up by virtue of a little rally of form already achieved last year and the poor teams below us.

Brendan McLaughlin
177 Posted 02/03/2024 at 22:57:15
Danny #173,

Some long posts on this thread but you pretty much nailed it there in five sentences.

John Raftery
178 Posted 02/03/2024 at 23:05:35
Tony (@169)

Exasperated anxiety is a great description of how most of the crowd are reacting to what they are seeing at Goodison. I totally agree, we need to stick with the team, hard though it is at times.

I think there was a genuine attempt by the team today to vary their approach. Both the central midfielders dropped deeper to receive the ball from the defenders and then link up with Doucouré and the wide men. McNeil moved inside, Doucouré moved out wide and so on but too often moves broke down, as they often do with a misplaced pass or cross.

After the game next week, we have a 3-week break which will be a welcome opportunity to get players fully fit before the run-in and build a better understanding of what is required in the final third of the pitch.

Sam Hoare
179 Posted 02/03/2024 at 23:12:26
Ernie @176, we are improving.

Last season, we finished on 34 points. This season, we should have 31 and have 11 games to play.

I've had conversations with you before about xG and won't repeat but suffice to say that all the models make it clear that we are creating more chances than we are giving away.

Sadly we aren't putting away those chances and that may be more to do with confidence and quality than luck but, in either instance, it's not an easy thing for a manager to change.

The hope is that, over a larger period of time, as you say, these things might even out and that we should hopefully win some matches where we have been mostly on the receiving end. Fingers crossed.

Derek Thomas
180 Posted 02/03/2024 at 23:18:24
Everybody talking' 'bout

'Ministration !

chorus; 'ministration.

Relegation !

chorus; relegation.

Liquidation !

chorus; liquidation.

All we are saaaying - is give Football a chance.

Peace didn't happen back then, Football not happening now...(or peace for that matter)

Nobody consulted me about getting in a taxi with Carey, or about appointing his replacement, nor any of those many subsequent replacements - so why do I have to anoint the successor by naming him (or her)??

Burnley sacked Dyche too late and it didn't work anyway.

If we need to sack Dyche, do it right now

Or don't do it at all!

Compo?, yeah right Tell him and Woany to take a number, get in line – and good luck with that.

As for 11 games left, anybody seriously expecting anything from the derby and Arsenal away??

No, thought not.

Make it 9 games…

Jim Lloyd
181 Posted 02/03/2024 at 23:35:39
Paul (@157),

Our goal defecit has been terrible since Lukaku left; and gone even worse since we lost Richarlison. I seem to remember that Calvert-Lewin had one really good half season when Digne and the two players Benitez brought in, Andros Townsend and (the other lad's gone right out my head now!)

Anyway, crosses were coming over and he was getting on to them. The opposition sorted Digne out though and kept him pushed back.

He didn't do bad for Ancelotti either but he's also suffered a lot with injuries as well, but our scoring record has been poor for years.

Si Cooper
182 Posted 02/03/2024 at 23:54:11
It's not good that we have lost a game we really should have (based on possession and decent chances) won, but it is still better than having been soundly beaten.

Don't know how people include this sort of performance in a wholly consistent downward trend. If you cannot separate the games we ‘deserved' to win from those we ‘deserved' to lose, then you are just looking at the final score and not what actually happened during the game and applying your subconscious bias.

I'm not sure why Dyche's previous observation of our paucity of self-belief when he was at Burnley is seemingly being brandished as evidence of the manager's flaws. It is actually just evidence that he has inherited the disadvantages that plagued his predecessors.

Very disappointed in Mykolenko for a very weak attempt to close down and block Soucek's attempt. Anyone pointing the finger at the manager for that?

Phil Lewis
183 Posted 02/03/2024 at 00:00:02
Abandon the wide men, it is not working. I'm sick of saying it on here. Harrison and McNeil are not up to scratch. I would hate to think that the latter is picked because of his previous Burnley association with Sean Dyche.

To be fair, it has been well documented that McNeil's partner has been seriously ill. If it is affecting the lad's game, as is possibly the issue, then he should be left on the bench and used only in emergency. His form has been awful for far too long. In my humble opinion, Harrison just hasn't got it, he is a liability.

When all are fit, my first eleven in a 4-2-3-1 formation would be:

Coleman Tarkowski Branthwaite Mykolenko
Gueye Onana
Garner Doucoure Gomes.

I believe we may finally find the net with this line-up. But just as importantly, the midfield would be more compact and not as exposed. Let's pass our way through the middle for a change instead of the hopeful hoofing game.

For God's sake, Mr Dyche, admit your tactics are failing us and radically change things before it's too late.

Jay Harris
184 Posted 02/03/2024 at 00:00:15
I hate to say this but Goodison has contributed to our bluntness.

I watched the Luton game and at 2-0 down their supporters were loud and encouraging and brought them back to 2-2 only succumbing to a late Villa goal compared with the anxiety around Goodison at 1-1.

That anxiety transfers to the players and is building up game by game.

Compare that with the fireworks and non-stop noise of a couple of years ago and think what a difference that would make.

I do believe also that Dyche got his tactics incorrect today telling the players to go for it against a very good counter-attacking team in West Ham.

If we would have played our normal game of KITAP1, I believe we would have won that game.

I also hate to single out players but Ben Godfrey is not the answer at right-back. What Patterson has to do to nail that position down, I don't know… but Godfrey creates nothing going forward and is only slightly better than Patterson defensively.

Billy Shears
185 Posted 02/03/2024 at 00:02:52
We all know our problems but we need solutions fast here folks cos the games are coming thick and fast now and, with some tough fixtures looming, heads have to roll and serious questions need to be asked.

The current situation is just not acceptable... someone with some sort of power at our club needs to speak out and make some major decisions fast, or next season we'll be playing in a different league!

Sean Kelly
186 Posted 03/03/2024 at 00:14:14
Kamikaze Everton.
Jeff Armstrong
187 Posted 03/03/2024 at 00:17:23
Jay @184, correct.

The Gwladys Street gave up as soon as Garnacho scored about 7 games ago; the Park End leave on 75 minutes, no matter what the score, and all the arl arses in the Main Stand, Top Balcony (I try) and Bullens Rd don't bother, so yes there is no atmosphere.

Peter Moore
188 Posted 03/03/2024 at 00:27:33
A draw is better than a loss, but a loss is worth nothing, points wise. I suspect Dyche, Woan and Stone will already have been adept at drumming in the importance of this.

So, how to explain today's collapse? How to remedy it? These are the points we need to answer, and answer resoundingly. UTFT
Phil Sammon
189 Posted 03/03/2024 at 00:29:34
Blows my mind that anyone would drop McNeil. The only player we have who looks comfortable on the ball.
Andy Crooks
190 Posted 03/03/2024 at 00:32:43
Good posts, Sam Hoare. We were the better team, the West Ham goalkeeper made a brilliant save at 1-0 and was excellent throughout.

We should have won. Nobody loves this football, no one is accepting of mediocrity and we need a break. Barring a major points deduction we will not be relegated.

Shit result, decent enough performance. However, that is happening too often.

Christine Foster
191 Posted 03/03/2024 at 00:48:52
I feel drained watching games like that.

People can talk all they want about chances created but the fact is we have an out-of-form centre-forward and his back-up who just isn't good enough.

I don't care about xG, my eyes tell me what I see. Two wide men who are nowhere near good enough to beat a man and cross, but they add nothing of value defensively.

Doucoure has not contributed since his return. With the exception of Gomes, we have no guile, we have a midfield of a 38-year-old, a 34-year-old (one should not be in the team; the other is only good for 45 minutes).

Garner is just poor, Onana seems to be waiting to leave, whilst at the back the only one who overlaps is Mykolenko, a decent centre-back pairing, Godfrey is neither an effective full-back nor centre-back.. constantly out of position.

Coleman is 35, love him, but he gets laced now by a fast winger. Patterson is a better full-back than Godfrey. Dobbin needs to play, Danjuma is different, so play him when fit.

If Dyche is here for the term, then do what he is good at, two big men up front, win the 2nd ball, and get crosses in every time early.

We may well survive this season but the league position has nothing to do with points deductions but how badly the 3 or 4 teams are below us, the players not being good enough for 90 minutes, the reluctance of a manager to change the players, etc – and of course the philosophy of the manager. How he wants the team to play. No matter who the manager is, they have to be able to get the best out of the players he has, to shape a team that will win.

It's too late to change the manager, but he has to change the way we play, the players he uses… winning is more important than style right now. So stop trying to tweak and take a knife to the situation.

If you have players that can only contribute a half then have a Plan B. Right now, I don't even care if you play Michael Keane up front, find a solution.

Paul Ferry
192 Posted 03/03/2024 at 00:53:00
I'm not one for ganging up with the lynch mob baying that we must dump Dyche. But to be honest I'm starting to have some deep reservations.

They can bring a smile to my face, those armchair warriors, but nothing I have read on today's match threads has made me laugh out loud as much as this thing of absurd beauty. It is, of course, the work of our own Barry Rathbone (@87), who in all apparent seriousness has issued his Papal Bull to proclaim that “It's nothing to do with Dyche”.

That might be the most ridiculous, ludicrous, and frivolous thing to appear on here in this calendar year so far. “It's nothing to do with Dyche”? “It's nothing to do with” the individual who guides training, picks the team, selects the set-up, choose tactics, supposedly responds as the game unfolds, has a good 15 minutes or so to have a natter with the lads at half-time, decides on who to sub and who to bring on, continues to supposedly respond as the match continues to develop and moves into its final phases, and who supposedly takes on board lessons learned from games and has sometimes a handful of days but more often a week or so pick the right team and to get tactics right in the next game (with the help of his own knowledge and experience and the other two bald lads and the little library of computer and bot-generated information on the next team in line).

Nah, “it's nothing to do with Dyche”, the individual who has by far the most input into team selection, set-up, and tactics. Our holy trinity of footy-wise baldies have “nothing to do” with results.

But, I hear you say, it wasn't Dyche who missed that sitter, was out of position for that goal, or unbelievably left his hand out in the air for their penalty. I sort of understand that line of thinking but left like that, it is not enough in itself and can look a little literal and clutching at straws. It is Dyche who we trust to respond to these mistakes and poor decisions and pick teams and tactics accordingly. That's why he gets paid big sponds, for Sheedy's sake.

Harrison still starts and doesn't get hooked until the last 10 minutes. I'm using that example – just one – but there are more where that one comes from to show how mind-bogglingly bizarre and whacky it is to proclaim in pomp that “It's nothing to do with Dyche”.

I also think that it is utterly nutty to call for his head right now. It has never crossed my mind that we will go down before and after the North Wharf Road travesty of justice. But Dyche's position must be reviewed over the summer, as it surely will be if there is ever an end to this takeover saga. I'm inclined to lean towards getting someone else in, to be honest.

But who do you want to replace him, Ferry? – which is a fair and reasonable question. If you have the keyboard balls to type “Dyche out” then have the keyboard balls to come up with a replacement, for feck's sake. Well, who would be nuts enough to come to our shit-show? We are about as likely to bring in a big gun with a big name and reputation as Barry Rathbone is to type sense.

We should be shopping for Dyche's successor in the same places as we should be shopping for players: middle-ranking achieving clubs in good foreign leagues and promise at home on the rungs below us (yes, there are rungs below us).

I'm increasingly interested in Rob Edwards but I'm worried that he does not have the raw and necessary experience to deal with our sinking shit-show or that this team is not one that can play in his preferred style or even that said style is the best one in our current slough of despond.

But he does strike me as a reasonable, sensible, and affordable suitor for the gaffer's seat – and the good news, Rob, is that part of the job description is that what goes on in the match will have “nothing to do” with you.

I do like the way he has handled himself this season and more importantly the rapport and gusto that he creates in adversity. With the right ins and outs – including Alfie Doughty please (I want him just for his name alone) and Alan Ball boots Ross – we could come up with a team to play his type of game.

That's all I've got, sorry; like all of us, I'm between a rock and a hard place but I do think that Dyche had something to do with the game today and that he will surely learn from it and get his selection, set-up, and tactics right for next week.

Colin Malone
193 Posted 03/03/2024 at 01:10:35
Have we got the players to survive? Big Yes!

Have we got the players to play hoofball? Nooo.

Have we got the coaching staff to coach to play possession football ? Noooo.

We have the players but Dyche is Dyche, a one-trick pony.
In Dyche's words: Harrison, McNeil, Doucoure – their work rate off the ball is top class; none have ability in possession with the ball.

I'm tired watching this shit, with a manager blaming everyone but himself.

Dyche is a survivor at best. The form book tells you that.
We have the players!

Andy Crooks
194 Posted 03/03/2024 at 01:15:16
Paul, it is no doubt frustrating with Dyche.

Beto, in my view, should never have started, nor should he have taken the penalty. It astonishes me that this very likeable, but incredibly limited player starts ahead of Calvert-Lewin. Down to Dyche.

Bringing on Dobbin with 1 minute to go is just bad management. Why drag a young player on to hear the boos at the end of the game? Shite management.

But, Dyche sent out a team that deserved to win. He has us tight at the back. We lost to a super goal and have two central defenders who are remarkably creative going forward.

Also, we have a bench that is just utterly limited. I would suggest that we have the best manager to dig us out. Not beyond criticism but not worthy of the reactionary bile of some on here.

Paul Ferry
195 Posted 03/03/2024 at 01:30:05
Thanks, Andy, and honestly I don't disagree with much of that. I wasn't necessarily being entirely negative about Dyche, though it can seem that way. I mean, you, after all, Andy, just showed on the more positive side of the balance that Dyche does indeed have something to do with the outcome of the match!

I do agree that he is "not worthy of the reactionary bile of some on here".

I think I remember reading that you were going to be at the Old Lady today, Andy, thanks for your support and I hope that you had a good day despite the obvious.

Ernie Baywood
196 Posted 03/03/2024 at 01:35:24
It was a great goal to give West Ham the lead. It was also terrible defending by both of our full-backs.

Mykolenko is seemingly immune from criticism on here... but that half-arsed effort was pathetic. And he spent the rest of the game shirking any kind of responsibility when given the ball.

Personally I think him, Godfrey and Harrison are massive architects of our lack of ability to even play basic football. They're nowhere near the level required in those positions.

But they'll keep on getting picked for the same reason... they 'put in a shift'.

I know exactly what I would try to change things, but everyone will have their own ideas. Except, seemingly, the one man who actually can change things.

But it's nothing to do with him apparently.

Ernie Baywood
197 Posted 03/03/2024 at 01:45:23
Sam Hoare @179 - I just don't know how you can continue to assert that we are improving.

I'm seeing, when watching us play, that the exact opposite is happening.

Forget xG. Don't worry about a few points either way within an extended time period.

Look at the game. We're dreadful and getting worse.

Will Mabon
198 Posted 03/03/2024 at 03:36:44

There's now some Everton xG exploration there on the BBC site for those that like it.

Sean Kearns
199 Posted 03/03/2024 at 03:42:13
It's fine margins and I still think we are doing okay. We really are just unlucky (although I understand you make your own luck etc) but we really are.

If McNeil scores to make it 2-0, we probably win, and if Beto scores the penalty (which wasn't a terribly bad penalty, it was a good save, but for gods' sake put it in the top corner) then we may also win…

They scored a couple of good goals. The way we played in the first half was obviously intentional as we have to sit back and defend for a plan A. You saw what happened in the second half when we tried to attack late on, we got caught for goals on the counter. If we attacked teams from kick-off, we would get hammered…

West Ham are 8th in the Premier League and are no mugs; they are worthy opponents and they beat us. We are still doing okay and will nick a handful of wins.

Beto must retain his place, his goal was a belter… people assuming we should beat West Ham at home are mistaken, the table doesn't lie. We need Man Utd to get hammered tomorrow then, if we can get it to half-time at their place at 0-0 next week, they will get booed off 100%!

Thomas Roberts
200 Posted 03/03/2024 at 04:24:53
If anybody has contacts with Sean Dyche, Seamus Coleman (Calderstones Park), can they please let them know that McNeil and Harrison have been so out-of-form for about 2 months now. Everybody can see it. Change the personnel or the system.

As for Beto taking the penalty, leaders step up and take the ball off him. Sadly, we don't have any.

Ernie Baywood
201 Posted 03/03/2024 at 04:33:09
Sean, "Beto's goal was a belter"?

It was a great cross and Beto did what he's done before. He mistimed the header.

Luckily his shoulder saved him this time. That was nearly miss of the season.

Jay Harris
202 Posted 03/03/2024 at 05:10:53

But they're the sort of goals we need to be scoring.

If he would have made good headed contact, he would no doubt have headed it straight at the goalie.

We really need scruffy goals right now.

Thankfully for us, Nunes also scored a scruffy goal.

As long as they go in the net, I don't care how they score and, for all of Beto's awkwardness, he always looks more likely than Calvert-Lewin to score.

Alan J Thompson
203 Posted 03/03/2024 at 06:16:57
While I think we need to replace this manager I don't think this is the time to do it unless it is the hope of "new manager bounce", or should that be reaction to a dead cat bounced out?

Who would be the replacement? I'm not sure how to go about finding the information but how many Premier League teams have changed managers in the last two years?

Spurs, Villa, Palace, soon the bastard son, Man Utd, Forest, Brighton, Wolves, Newcastle. Chelsea, Bournemouth, Burnley, Sheffield Utd… is Arteta that long ago? And not forgetting the kings of this game, Everton, and possibly some I've missed.

So there can't be a shortage of managers out there but the trick seems to be having somebody who knows how to pick them. You couldn't argue with Ancelotti albeit some did argue that he couldn't work his magic without buying in better players. We may need to find somebody who is unaware that we face a second PSR charge.

But, as some have pointed out, at the moment, we either haven't got anybody actually running the club (not to be confused with team) or who has much interest in so doing.

Sean Mitchell
204 Posted 03/03/2024 at 06:56:22
'Run from it, dread it, destiny arrives all the same'.

This season or the next, the trapdoor is inevitable.

Zero quality, no money, 1971 manager, the vultures circling, cowboys 777 Partners, no Knight in shining armour.


Danny Baily
205 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:21:46
Sean 202, our best hope is to kick the can down the line. Stay up, complete the takeover, get the wage bill down, sell players etc.

Do this, and we'll have another season in the Premier League. Seemingly we can still invest in the squad whilst operating within PSR rules, as long as the deals are carefully structured (eg, Beto and Chermiti).

It seems to me that it's either this, or the complete chaos of relegation and administration. However tempting an opportunity for a clean(ish) slate may be, I'm sure none of us want relegation.

Sam Hoare
206 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:23:38
Ernie @198, when I say we're improving, I mean over a longer period of time, ie, seasons.

Yes, in January and February we have been worse than in November and December but a small squad and injuries have probably contributed to that.

This season, we are getting more points per game (so far) than last season, which we finished with 36 points and a goal difference of –23. We also went almost 3 entire games in a row last season without a single shot on target!

Dyche has gradually improved us despite losing Gordon, Iwobi and Gray who cost more and were more effective than Beto, Harrison and Chermiti.

Obviously, this current run of results has been pretty wretched (though we were only a few minutes of stoppage time away from getting 4 points over the last 2 games instead of 1) and Dyche himself said yesterday that he takes responsibility for that.

A few weeks ago, I was feeling pretty certain we'd escape relegation. I feel less certain now. Obviously we need to start putting away what chances we create, we just can't afford to be missing penalties and the likes of McNeil's volley from 7 yards out.

I don't know that the players can do that but I'm not convinced a new manager would change that. I maintain that the most I could reasonably expect of most managers is to set us up in a way that, over a large run of games, we are creating more chances than our opponents.

Dyche is doing that (and is first manager to do so since early Ancelotti); after that, it is really up to the players to take those chances. Sadly, we lack the quality.

Paul Hewitt
207 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:32:49
Julian Lopetegui, the former Wolves manager, is still available. He did a great job at Wolves, keeping them up. They played decent football as well. None of this long ball crap.

After next weekend we have a 3-week break. Plenty of time for him to work on things.

Ian Wilkins
208 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:45:14
Utter frustration. We get 4 points back, have a very winnable home game, a chance to add a bit of security, and we fluff our lines, big time.

On reflection, we could have, should have won yesterday. We weren't great, but we had the better of the game, the most and best chances.

The difference is, as we know, we are workmanlike, we grind out chances, and we often lack the quality to convert them. Which other team would be awarded their first penalty of the season, then dread taking it? Only us.

West Ham are the opposite: pace and trickery in their front line creates them opportunities out of nothing and yesterday they mugged us in extra time. All our endeavour was quickly undone and our frustration boiled over.

It isn't changing this season. We have to grind out the required points with this manager and this team. That's how it is, for now. We all need to knuckle down (hard as it is) and find the way.

Sam Hoare
209 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:50:02
For those who haven't seen it, here's a BBC article summarising what I've been banging on about all season:

Sean Dyche frustrated despite xG being 'though the roof'

The amount of chances we are missing is genuinely quite freakish!! If we had even an average standard of finishing we'd be around 9th or 10th in the league (without the points deduction).

Ernie Baywood
210 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:50:51
Jay, it wasn't a scruffy goal. We very rarely get enough players in the box to score a scruffy one.

It was a scruffy finish. I don't care particularly, but I'd much rather pick the guy who can head a ball. It's a better indicator of future success if we can repeat that kind of delivery.

Unfortunately we'll have Harrison back on the right wing so it's unlikely we'll see a good delivery from the right again unless someone else finds themselves by chance in that location.

Paul Ferry
211 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:52:52
PH, deal with it, Dyche is going nowhere until the summer. That said, with Burnley, we are the only team not to have won this year. Dyche, Burnley, us? Hmmmm, is there a common denominator there?

Ten matches without a win. I hate to be realistic or pragmatic, but Dyche is part of the problem now.

Dyche might be the fella to keep us up but he is not the gaffer to move us forwards and will morph in due time into Allardyce or Warnock.

We will stay up and that worries me if that is seen as Dyche's oh so wonderful gift. He is not a man for all seasons; his season, apart from one, is Bottom 6.

I will know that we are in a better place when Dyche is history but I will always be grateful to him.

Ian Jones
212 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:53:25
I really can't add much more to what has already been said above.

My only new input is re the loan system. It seems a long time since we utilised it well. I am thinking of the time Lukaku, Deulofeu and Barry joined us and made a difference.

Denis Richardson
213 Posted 03/03/2024 at 07:57:56
Well… the morning after.

We had loads of shots on goal, missed chances, and got hit by sucker punches at the end. Could call it just one of those days.

On the bright side, both Forest and Luton lost so no ground lost, other than one goal in the GD column.

For those worried about going down, the teams below us are in a worse position….

I'm confident we'll stay up. We should really have won yesterday. Big unknown is the possible second points deduction. But that affects Forest too.

Paul Birmingham
214 Posted 03/03/2024 at 08:19:23
Time to reflect and the same old story. Poor finishing, their keeper amongst many many keepers this season, against Everton, plays a blinder.

Slack marking for Zouma's free header. Godfrey gave Kudos a free pass to cross for Soucek's great finish, but Everton stood off 10 yards, and he had time to line up his shot. Similar to Palace. The 3rd was a comedy but genuinely felt sorry for Garner.

I've not felt so drained after a game for a long time. Tensions in the air but positives in Beto scoring from open play, and creating chances, ultimately to be mugged off at the end.

Why didn't Branthwaite or Pickford take the penalty? They're confident and playing well. That for me was the game changer yesterday.

Hopefully Everton will learn another harsh lesson. They must do, to win the winnable games left.


Bob Parrington
215 Posted 03/03/2024 at 08:26:04
Embarrassing evening for me, on holiday in Phuket Thalong district.

All options for Premier League games were on and voted for Liverpool vs Notts Forest. Finally, after pleading, they agreed on Everton vs West Ham live. The rest is history. I hope I don't meet any of the other viewers again! Sorry, pathetic show by the Blues.

Might be taking my frustration out on the golf course tomorrow!!!!

Paul Hewitt
216 Posted 03/03/2024 at 08:46:17
Super silk has won more points for us lately than the team have.
Dave Abrahams
217 Posted 03/03/2024 at 08:51:32
Dyche makes mistakes, no doubt about it. He would love to have good options on the bench – where are they? He was left with the majority of these players, the smallest, weakest and most importantly the slowest squad in the Premier League.

We did enough to win yesterday, even with all the very basic mistakes being made throughout the game, but still creating plenty of chances.

After we scored, it was important to hold onto the lead and frustrate the opposition but they equalised 6 minutes after our goal from a corner.

Pickford spent most of the game 25 to 30 yards from his goal line yet he remains stuck on the line for every corner and Zouma scored about 2 yards from the goal line. Never mind the wrong man was marking the scorer – why wasn't Pickford coming out and dealing with the cross?

The subs did nothing to change the game except to disrupt the team's shape.

Beto slammed his previous penalty against Fulham in the shoot-out, no bother a belter of a penalty. Yesterday, in the mind games of taking a penalty, he made the ‘keeper guess and make his choice of diving, then Beto placed his shot in the same direction as the goalie's dive — astonishing!

It's down to Dyche in a few places but also definitely down to the players to buck up and stop making very basic mistakes which most were making before Dyche came into contact with them. Stop being afraid of the ball and use like it should be used, starting with passing the ball to a player with the same coloured shirt as yourself.

The beautiful game? Not with these players, it's as ugly as…, it's Sunday isn't it?

Ian Horan
218 Posted 03/03/2024 at 09:06:06
I struggle to believe we are the subject of goalkeepers having their game of the season when they are at Goodison. I think it's more a case of carelessness on our players' part, snatching at chances is down to a lack of confidence, also no Plan B.

It's going to be very painful to the end of the season. We are in the hands of the gods if we're to stay up. We will not keep ourselves up, we will only stay up due to other teams' failures.

Luton have a number of players who score. Luton will stay up; it is now between us and Forest for the last place…. Sad times, Blues.

Bill Watson
219 Posted 03/03/2024 at 09:13:20
We feared the worst when Beto picked the ball up for the penalty. Even during normal play, he has difficulty in striking the ball properly!

Why didn't one of the senior players step in and take the ball off him?

Sam Hoare
220 Posted 03/03/2024 at 09:31:03
Bill, which senior players?

Other than Tarkowski and Pickford (not obvious penalty takers!) it's quite a young team. Doucoure is the other senior player, I guess, but not necessarily a player renowned for his technique or penalty taking.

I'd have maybe liked to see Harrison or Garner take it but both are new players. McNeil is the other option but looks so out of form and low on confidence.

I like that our centre-forward took responsibility. It was an okay-ish penalty, somewhat lacking in power, that required a great save. Not sure I'd have been confident of any of our players scoring currently, which is exactly the problem!

Winston Williamson
221 Posted 03/03/2024 at 09:58:46
There needs to be changes. The team lacks spark. I'd try the following team:-

Godfrey Tarkowski Branthwaite Mykolenko
Gana Onana
Patterson Doucouré Garner
Calvert-Lewin or Beto

Garner is the best crosser we have. Patterson has speed and can go past a man. Onana has some vision every now and then.

Feels like arranging the chairs on the Titanic. As soon as Dele Alli is fit, I'd rotate him with Doucouré. Once McNeil is showing form, I'd bring him back in and move Garner infield on rotation with Onana. McNeil and Harrison together is way too slow!

Confidence is rock bottom at the moment! Maybe time for that anonymous comment box again…

Christy Ring
222 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:03:00
Can someone tell me how Harrison is still being picked by Dyche? He has no pace, easily knocked off the ball, and for a winger, never crosses the ball. McNeil on the other wing has no pace either, but has a good left foot and is more suited to the No10 role.

Godfrey offers nothing at full-back, but Dyche picks a team to defend, not attack, and with Calvert-Lewin, he has him tracking back, playing the channels instead of telling him to stay in the middle.

Dobbin hasn't got a chance since he scored against Chelsea?

Dyches's tactics, team selection and substitutions don't make sense: how he left Harrison and McNeil on until the 90th minute yesterday, when they should have been hauled off at half-time, and the first player replaced is the goalscorer?

Michael Kenrick
223 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:12:05
Winston @221,

I don't think you're taking this team selection thing seriously.

How can you go for Calvert-Lewin or Beto in your team??? It's just not going to fly.

If you really were the manager, you'd have to get off the pot and choose one or the other — putting down both is just a complete cop-out.

Tony Abrahams
224 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:14:19
Anyone saying sack Dyche, hasn’t got a clue about the position Everton football club are in right now.

Put this on another page and make it a separate thread, but it’s obvious that the players are playing for the manager, and with the current state of our rudderless club, I personally think sacking another manager would definitely have a terrible affect on the players.

Some of the football was good yesterday, very good even, but it broke down so many times with possession in dangerous area’s, not being capitalized on because of a lack of quality, with the only real hoof-ball being Tarkowski’s switches of play, to a fullback, who never really wants to drive forward.

A dog of a day, I missed seeing Andy C, Derek, and the ToffeeWeb crowd, because I got soaked watching my youngest child, and then had to rush him home, and get him in the shower, so we just about made it in time to watch the other shower.

In all seriousness though, I think we will win quite a few games of football, when we don’t play as well as we did yesterday, but to become a better team, we have got to start taking care of the football much better, and this is down to the players.

Christopher Timmins
225 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:16:41
A bad result but a better performance than of late. We created enough chances to win the game but our lack of quality at the top end continues to cost us.

Our former manager was honest enough to admit that we were unlucky and the goal to put them 2 -1 up was a fantastic strike.

Brent Stephens
226 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:17:21
Christy #222 "Dyche picks a team to defend, not attack".

Don't our "shots on goal" yesterday give lie to that? Conversion is the problem not attacking in terms of number of chances created.

Geoff Williams
227 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:29:30
Dyche is a poor manager by any measure one wants to use. Tactically he is so predictable, any substitutions are like for like. He is never proactive and only ever reactive. Not one player has improved under his guidance and he refuses to make use of under 21s. I would remove him and his two assistants from first team duties and hand over these to Baines and Coleman.

Conceding from corners is inexcusable when Everton have so many really tall players. Dyche packs the 6 yard box so the goalkeeper can't come out and collect the ball. No one is on the edge of the penalty to collect half clearances or to prevent short corners being taken. No one is left up field so quick counter attacks are out. Everton don't possess anyone who can take a decent corner or attacking free-kick. these are things which can and should be practised daily. I could go on about the deficiencies in Dyche's coaching and tactics but it is making me more and more depressed. I am left with the conclusion Dyche will get Everton relegated with or without further point deductions.

Winston Williamson
228 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:29:36
Michael, I bottled it.

Got all the way through the team and then had a meltdown! At the moment, choosing between those two is like deciding whether to go shopping with the mrs or having a colonoscopy!

Edit: really appreciate your work on updating names for lazy commentators like myself!!

Brian Harrison
229 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:29:42
Dave 217 Christy 222

Thanks you have encapsulated everything I was going to say only much better. Now is not the time to change the manager, but if asked the same question at the end of the season I will probably give a different answer. Seeing we have 2 wide players who are supposed to deliver decent crosses how ironic that when Garner had a bit of space out wide he delivers a perfect ball for Beto to head home. Finally we can say how unlucky we are but we have said from the first home games of the season how better finishing against Luton and Wolves wins us the game, so we have had this problem since the beginning of the season and still seing the same problems.

Brian Harrison
230 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:44:40
Sorry for posting again but I forgot to say there were some posters before the game criticizing the fans, if there is anybody connected with the club who deserve no criticsm from anybody its our magnificent fans. I cant remember any clubs fans having to endure what Everton fans have had, and they took to the streets long before the Premier league charged us with an overspend, yet nobody believed the fans when they tried to tell everyone how badly we were being run. Yesterday they backed the team all the way and yes there were a lot of empty seats at the end but I didnt hear any booing just massive frustration that we lost another winable game.
Tony Abrahams
231 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:50:22
What a cross that was from Garner, Brian, but it was possibly the worst thing the kid could have done, imo, because it might have made the manager think that Garner, would be okay out wide, even though he was putting in a terrific shift (imo) in midfield yesterday, and taking him out the centre, definitely disrupted the rest of his performance.

Garner attacked the space, but our wide players rarely get much space simply because we currently have two stay at home fullbacks out on the pitch at the same time, and this is definitely negating our attacking threat.

Phil Lewis
232 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:58:40
Italian fans nicknamed Beto 'The Donkey' for good reason. Sums him up really. A workhorse with little else going for him. Never mind missing the penalty, he didn't even connect properly with the header for his goal. Fortunately it went in off his shoulder. A typical Dyche choice come to think of it. If Sean had Ball, Kendal and Harvey at his disposal, he wouldn't know what to do with them.

'School of Science'? We make Vinnie Jones's Wimbledon look like Real Madrid!

Reinstate Gomes (who when free of injury is our only real source of creativity) as a number 10 just behind DCL. Perm a solid compact midfield unit capable of supplying them and also covering our back four.

Drop Harrison and McNeil.

Your plan dosent work Sean. Find a new one or we go down.

Tony Abrahams
233 Posted 03/03/2024 at 10:58:51
“The fans took to the streets, well before the Premier League charged the club with an overspend, and yet nobody believed the fans when they tried to tell everyone how badly we were being run.”

These same fans kept the club in the Premier League twice, with incredibly passionate unrivaled support, despite being inexplicably thrown under the bus by their own Everton Board of Directors, and then by a league that didn't want to punish the fans of the Breakaway Six.

Different rules for different schools, it's mostly about having a lot of power in the media.

Dave Lynch
234 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:07:05

That's the go-to for some sections of fans... "Get behind the team, Call yourself an Evertonian... etc".

I and others have said it many times, do you think that lot across the park would put up with this shit? The answer is a resounding "No".

In some ways, the "fans" are reaping what they have sown, blindly ignoring Bullshit Billy and his lies, the Greatest Evertonian that ever lived, he was never properly challenged or held to account by fans who should've screamed from the roof tops.

My only regret if we do go down (and I hope and pray we don't) is that the lying charlatan wasn't alive to witness it, he would've had a hard time squirming his way out of that.

[This may make uncomfortable reading for some and start a backlash, but it's the way I see it.]

"Poor little Everton, punching above their weight, how quaint…" That's been the attitude for fucking years.

Dave Lynch
235 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:11:17
Tony... with all due respect, mate, the damage had been done years before it came to Lampard's rallying call.

We've been dead in the water for years, mate; it was always going to come to this when you look back on events.

Hindsight and all that, eh...

Brian Williams
236 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:13:20
Tony #224.

Thanks, mate, for the football-related part of your post, you've saved me some time in arguing and getting frustrated on here by very succinctly summing up my own thoughts.

Hoofball? There were parts of the game yesterday when we played some of the best football we've played in months, possibly all season. We're creating numerous chances which for one reason or another aren't being converted.

I missed yesterday's meet-up too mate. Hope to be there for the next one, even if just to help your Dave to the bar. 🤣🤣😝

Dave Lynch
237 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:32:38
Also Tony.,

"It's about having a lot of power in the media."

That's something Bullshit Billy had in spades, every time it was going tits up, his media mates would rally around him telling everyone what a nice and genuine bloke he was.

And how lucky we were to have him.

Tony Abrahams
238 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:33:43
I can't remember what day it is sometimes, Dave, but I didn't need hindsight to know what Bill Kenwright was all about though, mate.

I was just replying to what Brian had written with the contradiction being that, when the fans of certain clubs protest, they are both helped and protected by the press, but not us Evertonians because a certain person knew how to play the game and got his phoney nepotistic friends to protect him.

Splitting the fan base was one of his greatest achievements, and how we have suffered the consequences, something we were both posting at the very same time!

Rob Dolby
239 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:38:13
Tony 231,

Garner's cross was the only real quality delivery all game. Do we have another player in the squad capable of that delivery? Maybe McNeil from the left.

Both centre-mids played well yesterday and largely controlled the game for us. This hoofball myth is just lazy – anyone watching yesterday would have seen 2 young centre-mids control the game for us. Usually, if a team wins the midfield, the game is also won. It took a world-class goal from Soucek to win it.

Without doubt, sacking managers has contributed to us being in this mess, We have sacked a manager every 18 months for the last 7 years.

We have a manager and coaches in place who are working under unprecedented times at our club. Both hands tied behind their backs and people want them sacked is staggering.

Rob Edwards being mentioned… when I see Luton, I see old school Wimbledon. Please tell me otherwise?

Loperteli being mentioned – him and his team almost sunk Wolves above the PSR because of his wages, he left as Wolves couldn't spend money. Please tell me how he can improve us whilst not spending and working for peanuts?

Dyche isn't perfect but he is a good fit for this mess. I would like to see Dobbin playing more at the expense of Harrison as I think the latter looks knackered compared to early season.

I would like to see Calvert-Lewin play more narrow and stop running channels.

Pointing the obvious out about limited full-backs, both Godfrey and Mykolenko can't attack. Mykolenko is the only left-back in the squad – who is better?

Godfrey is our best full-back given that Coleman and Young are falling apart and we have been sold a dud in Patterson.

The one thing that can't be questioned is Dyche has the same group of players working hard and not giving up.

Paul Tran
240 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:38:40
The footballing reason we're in the position we're in is that we don't take our chances.

The question that needs answering is: How do you get players who don't score many goals to start scoring goals?

I'd join in the debate about 'tactics' if we weren't creating chances, or if we were conceding bucketfulls of goals like Luton.

The good defence will keep us up; the weak, directionless midfield will frustrate us; and the lack of goal threat will continue to stop us climbing up the table.

Nothing will change till we find a way of getting these players taking chances, or we bring in players who can.

I'd love to hear some suggestions on that main issue, which is baffling me!

Oliver Molloy
241 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:51:37
No matter what your thoughts on Dyche, we are stuck with him for the rest of the this season.

When he took over I did think he was the right choice to keep us up, and he did - just about!

But we have not progressed with Dyche, nor are we going to in my opinion – nothing has changed, he is a dinosaur manager that even fucking Burnley fans got fed up with.

The youngsters we have are going to learn sweet fuck-all from Dyche, and they are not going to get chance unless we are down to the bare bones.

I really do wonder what we would be like today if Bielsa had got his wish to work with the Under-21s when interviewed for the job.

I have said from Day 1 that Dyche will not be our manager when we move to the new stadium, nothing I have seen has changed my mind – in fact, I think it's nailed on that whoever takes over from frontman Moshiri will be saying "Thanks, Sean, but we have our own plans", whether we stay up or not.

Rob Dolby
242 Posted 03/03/2024 at 11:56:43
Dave 234,

As fans, what do you want us to do to influence our owner? He doesn't even go to games.

It's all very well likening us to Liverpool fans, after all, we are the same people from the same city. Have they got some sort of special fan powers other clubs don't have? If so, please tell me what they are?

Do you think Liverpool fans got rid of Hicks and Gillet or did they sell up as they couldn't make money out of the club?

Liverpool where very very close to going under and it wasn't the fans that got them out of it, it was a massive gamble by FSG appointing a very good manager.

Man Utd did the same with Ferguson when Michael Knighton was playing keepy-ups whilst Martin Edwards, who didn't have a scooby about football, was going to sell him for £8M.

Moshiri has made bad decisions. Keeping Bill Kenwright the main failing.

In hindsight, it was a mistake sacking Roberto Martinez and Marco Silva. Both had lots of potential and were only a couple of players away from being very good.

Not bankrolling the best manager in world football due to PSR and the Ukraine War must also be a head-scratcher for Moshiri and maybe the decision-maker for him to sell up.

Do we now have to ask ourselves, what would our beloved neighbours' fanbase do in our situation as they always get it right?

For fuck's sake, wound me right up, that comment.

Christy Ring
243 Posted 03/03/2024 at 12:18:07
I watched the highlights again, we did have plenty of chances, and their goalie was inspired. McNeil had the whole goal to aim for to make it 2-0. The only good cross we had, we scored from.

Looking at Soucek's goal, great finish but Mykolenko should have been closer, and running at him with his hands behind his back was ridiculous.

Man Utd next, I'd play Coleman with Dobbin or Patterson ahead of him on the right, Harrison for me has been so poor.

Bill Fairfield
245 Posted 03/03/2024 at 12:28:53
Let’s get 100% behind the manager, he needs all the support he can get. He’s already performing miracles with this substandard squad of players. Changing him now would be the final nail in the coffin.
Dave Lynch
246 Posted 03/03/2024 at 12:55:15
You're right Bill, sacking him would be a huge mistake.
But performing miracles hes not.
Take a look ar our last 10 games.
Bill Gall
247 Posted 03/03/2024 at 12:58:56
Well another depressing Sunday morning, not helped by reading some of the expert analysis from the usual supporters. I cant understand why they haven't applied for a managers job at the lower levels they make it sound so easy, but like me it is just their opinion.
Yesterday was another carbon copy of what has happened to this team since the 10pt reduction as they were playing better before it. We just have no one that can score whether they be easy chances, half chances or difficult ones that other teams seem to manage doing.
Defensively we are average with a mid table team position with a couple of top class defenders in it. Midfield is were we lack in going forward.
On the manager, he will not be going anywhere as his tactics yesterday were right, but we come up against a top class keeper who just had an exceptional game, one that we hope our keeper can emulate every game, plus our failure to score.
I do not believe he is our long term future, but his defensive type of football is what is needed to keep us in the Premier, he just does not have the players or the finances to change.
I do not agree with his tactics or game plan and I doubt if he will ever change, but beggars cant be choosers. I cant see any other manager available that will get us out of this mess.
The club is in a mess through no fault of the manager. The problem is his team is what most people see, and not the shambles he faced through poor or disgraceful negligence at Board and Ownership level.
Jimmy Hogan
248 Posted 03/03/2024 at 13:01:49
I don't think changing the manager at this point would be wise, although in the long run I think we have to. We should have one thing to focus one. Just getting more points than Luton and Forest and possibly Brentford. In the long run, we can't continue with Dyche. We are in a world of playing out from the back, closing down and passing accurately. Not lumpimg it. Football is a game that is played on the ground. Never forget it. Nearly two years unemployed, surely Potter is worth an approach to take over in the summer?
Tom Cannon
249 Posted 03/03/2024 at 13:09:48
I like reading ToffeeWeb, not because I agree with everyone but I sense everyone on ToffeeWeb shares my emotions especially after a game like yesterday. There were positives, Beto showed some self belief not when he took the penalty but when he came back, showed some bottle and scored a goal and others clearly have quality but like pretty well everyone seems to agree our full backs lack pace and the midfield lacks bite. Not sure at this point that there is much the manager can do about either. Some of his actions are a mystery - why substitute the only striker who has scored in favour of a striker who can’t score in front of a crowd! No sign that Beto wanted to come off. I think some writers on ToffeeWeb are too self critical. The vast bulk of Evertonians - from season ticket holders, through shareholders to fans - wanted rid of Bill a decade ago but the peculiarities of our Articles of Association and Bill’s self selected Board plus of course Moshiri stopped that. Going forward. I suspect we’ll survive the season because teams below us will drop more points. I agree with everyone who asked why our young players don’t get the chances we see over the Park but how to quiz Dyche with no AGMs and virtually no Board? Don’t know but thanks to ToffeeWeb, I need you after yesterday!
Michael Kenrick
250 Posted 03/03/2024 at 13:18:38
Dave Lynch @234,

"The Greatest Evertonian that ever lived, he was never properly challenged or held to account by fans who should've screamed from the roof tops."

That triggered something, Dave, a fleeting memory of some lads gaining entry to the inner sanctum and taking the great man to task in his running down of the club.

Funny thing was – the ultimate irony with respect to this discourse – those supporters who had the balls to challenge what he was doing, made the 'mistake' of recording the words of the Great Man, and were subsequently ostracized by the vast majority of match-going Evertonians who accused them of 'kopite behaviour'.

Instead of heeding the warnings, the vast majority were only too happy to rapturously applaud Blue Bill's smirking visage on the Big Screens at Goodison Park.

Ah... The Good Times.

Dave Lynch
251 Posted 03/03/2024 at 13:29:32
I remember being at a game a good few years ago at the Park End.
Bill was getting out of his Bentley and 3 lads through the fence started to challenge him about his running of the club, one asked about the Arteta money (it was that long ago), Bill looking worse for wear turned on them stating that it was fans like "you" who are the problem at this club, Bill was pulled away after a heated exchange.
Other fans around started to clap the lying shyster.
If only they knew what was to come.
Dave Abrahams
252 Posted 03/03/2024 at 13:35:37
Tom (249 Good post Tom, agree with a lot of it particularly the part about Kenwright.

As for the part why youngsters don’t get the chances we see over the park, I think that is easy answered by me suggesting any fan who feels strongly about this that they go and watch the present U18’s and 21’s, apart from Dobbin and Chermiti who was bought there is none of them ready to play in the first team, especially a team fighting desperately against the drop.

By the way Tom are you Professor Tom who attended the shareholders AGM in the past?

Dave Abrahams
253 Posted 03/03/2024 at 13:45:30
Michael (250)

Refresh your memory of the Everton supporters who got Kenwright banged to rights. It's on ToffeeWeb archives somewhere, give us all a chance to remember Bill as he was!!

Danny O’Neill
254 Posted 03/03/2024 at 13:55:33
I don't want to compare ourselves to Liverpool supporters. We may come from the same city, but are very different.

For me, there is only one greatest Evertonian and that is Colin Harvey. Dr David France did an article on it not so long ago.

John Keating
255 Posted 03/03/2024 at 14:04:30
We can all moan about the manager, his teams, his tactics, substitutions etc. However, look at yesterday, look at so many similar games this season, from Fulham and Wolves to West Ham.

How many chances have all the players missed? Chances that were unbelievable and if taken would have had us chasing a European place!

Yes, Dyche has lots of shortcomings but let's put the players on the spot as well. At the end of the day, it's the players that put the ball in the net –not Dyche.

Brent Stephens
256 Posted 03/03/2024 at 14:09:17
I think it might have been Paul Tran on yesterday's Live Forum (sorry to whoever if I got that wrong) who succinctly put it as follows (not his exact words, but the same principle):

Top six defence.
Mid-table midfield.
Bottom six goal-scoring.

Sums us up beautifully.

Iain Johnston
257 Posted 03/03/2024 at 14:45:35
Brent it's more like bottom 3 goal scoring. Luton, Forest & Brentford are outscoring us.

Brent Stephens
258 Posted 03/03/2024 at 14:54:23
Iain, you’re right. I was over-egging the pudding (no, not Beto).
Dave Lynch
259 Posted 03/03/2024 at 14:56:50
If we go down, the history books will not say: "Everton got relegated... but fuck me they missed enough chances to stay up comfortably."
Eddie Dunn
260 Posted 03/03/2024 at 14:58:26
Dyche obviously fails with his predictable subs.

However, it is not him who lost us 6 points and with those we would be 13th, a position that I and many others predicted that we might achieve this season.

That constitutes progress on the previous two seasons.

Our problems are clear. We are playing Godfrey at rightback and although he tries his best, he has been found out at set pieces two weeks on the trot. Beaten at Brighton and now by Zouma.

The Irons targetted his flank all day.

Then in front of Godfrey is our other weakest link in the industrious, but limited Harrison.

The kid works his socks off but gives the ball away, rarely takes on his man ,and those goals he scored for Leeds must have been CGI.

Finally, Onana, the lumbering Pogba wannabee.

He makes me realise just how important Gana Gueye is to the side.

I feel sorry for Beto, and the dog's abuse he got on here is unfair.

He puts himself about, causes panic in the opposition and he kept his chin up and scored for us.

Dyche should have kept him on with Dom and the Hammers might have had to keep more men back.

The people moaning about Dyche keeping the shackles on the team should think about 22 shots.

Dyche can't score the goals.

The only ray of hope is that we are better suited to away games.

Mike Gwyer
261 Posted 03/03/2024 at 14:59:55
Why do blues find the need to regurgitate "Do you think that lot across the park would put up with this shit?"

The benchmark for that lot across the park was provided by that wonderful referee, Mr Paul Tierney. That's the man who, at the City Ground yesterday, allowed that lot across the park to basically do whatever they wanted, until they finally scored a goal. That's their benchmark.

The fans of that lot across the park have no grace and are as powerless as us Blues, but they do have a far higher benchmark, seriously far higher, and without shame or pity that lot across the park will continually be helped to achieve their goals.

Please do not give the fans of that lot across the park any kudos that they do not deserve or aspire to.

Tony Abrahams
262 Posted 03/03/2024 at 15:01:53
Maybe we are producing a top six defence because both our full-backs rarely go forward?

It's a fine line, a very fine line, and it is probably something I wouldn't really be mentioning if we had won yesterday, but we didn't, and this was the only part of our game (besides Pickford thinking he's a combination of Platini and Iniesta) that really frustrated me.

Andy Crooks
263 Posted 03/03/2024 at 15:06:10
I agree, Tony. Yesterday, our full-backs offered nothing going forward.

Calvert-Lewin, several times, found himself isolated on the wing without a fullback offering an out ball for him. That is why I think we are so much better with Patterson or Coleman.

Denis Richardson
264 Posted 03/03/2024 at 15:07:53
Think I may need to invest in a new sofa to hide behind come April:

20 April - Everton vs Forest
27 April - Everton vs Brentford
04 May - Luton vs Everton
11 May - Everton vs Sheff Utd (who'll be down and playing with no fear)

Can't say it's not in our hands but I hope we've got some daylight as buffer before we hit that run!

Iain Johnston
265 Posted 03/03/2024 at 15:09:33
It's interesting to read the comments about Jack Harrison and the amount of times he's dispossessed.

In truth, there a far more high-profile midfield players with a worse record than him... the likes of Palmer, Foden, Martinelli, Guimaraes etc.

It's also interesting to see that our 3 best tacklers are Garner, Mykolenko and Gueye.

In terms of shots on target, we rank 8th in the league and are No 1 for clean sheets.

We can blame Dyche for a few things but we can't blame him for having strikers no better than Brett Angell or Barn Door Barlow.

Anthony Dove
266 Posted 03/03/2024 at 15:15:36
Danny @254.

Colin has no rivals in my mind. Heaven knows what he makes of the present situation.

Tony Abrahams
267 Posted 03/03/2024 at 15:38:21
Mike @261,

I had to go to work after the game and I received a text off an Arsenal mate, showing how frustrated Forest fans were with the cheating scousers.

I then spoke to a Liverpool fan, who'd had a few beers, and after he told me he watched the game, I asked him what had gone on because it sounded like the Forest fans felt they had been cheated.

“They got beat and they don't like it, fuck them” he said. Such class, so much grace, that's Liverpudlians, with the unfortunate thing nowadays being that a lot of other clubs fans, seem to have “nearly” caught them up. I've just put the Manchester derby on and wonder how many Kopites, will be rooting for United today, just like they were in the 1985 FA Cup Final!

Joe McMahon
268 Posted 03/03/2024 at 15:55:19
Tony and Mike.

On this subject. In my entire life (so far) I've known 3 absolutely horrible vile people.

Have a guess which team they followed? Yup you know the answer, all 3 of them.

Soren Moyer
269 Posted 03/03/2024 at 16:04:28
Any team from any 4 divisions across the Football league would have a top 6 defense if they park the bus home and away and hope for the best.

Not saying we should go gung-ho mind you. You need to find a balance between defending and attacking.

As many have pointed out, 1970s footy won't cut it in 2024.

Also, Mykolenko is a waste of money imo. Not great in defending, abysmal when attacking with poor crosses.

Christy Ring
270 Posted 03/03/2024 at 16:04:47
Tony # Mike,

It's every bit as bad having to look and listen to the ex-RedShite pundits talking crap on every sports channel.

I'm just thinking why Dobbin isn't given more of a chance on the wing, especially when we lack pace on the flanks.

Brent Stephens
271 Posted 03/03/2024 at 16:13:13
Soren. #269

“Any team from any 4 divisions across the Football League would have a top 6 defense if they park the bus home and away and hope for the best.”

Conveniently avoids our offensive game and number of shots. How many was that?

Soren Moyer
272 Posted 03/03/2024 at 16:36:09

Yesterday was a deviation from Dyche's tactics for some reason.

Can you honestly say the same thing about the majority of games under him?

Sam Hoare
273 Posted 03/03/2024 at 17:03:47
Soren, we have the 8th most shots in the league. So, no, yesterday was not a huge deviation.

Plenty of people moaning about how dull Dyche is and happily ignoring the fact that we are creating more chances and shots than we did under Lampard or Benitez or Ancelotti or Allardyce.

The big issue is we're not scoring any of them! But I'm not sure that is Dyche's fault necessarily, is it?

Phil Smith
274 Posted 03/03/2024 at 17:25:19
Not for the first time this season at Goodison, the opposition keeper gets MotM. He made a couple of amazing saves.

We really pissed off the football gods at some point…

Brian Wilkinson
275 Posted 03/03/2024 at 18:48:33
Three years on the run, we have been fortunate to find 3 teams worse than us, football-wise. I would say Burnley this season and Sheffield Utd have performed worse on the pitch than ourselves; other than that, teams that have gone down have played better football.

It is a slow process that each season we are slipping further behind. We have been bloody lucky the last few seasons. How much more can we keep on relying on teams below us being poorer? I just do not know the answer.

Survive this season and chances are it will be the same next season.

If Everton do not survive, then the reset button might not be a bad thing; it will be a huge financial loss, but at the same time away from a corrupt league, VAR, and in a league where at least you know you have a fighting chance.

Never in my life have I ever wanted the dreaded R-word, but if we have to, to start the reset, I am past worrying anymore. I doubt our club could will ever stoop this low again, it is rotten to the core.

Wherever we play our football next season, I will still be there supporting them. I've given up on relying on other teams losing. How low can one stoop, to actually be shouting for the Red Shite to beat Forest?

Whatever happens from now until the end of the season, I would take Championship football, if that is the case, and who knows if we take that league by storm, we could leave Goodison parading a league trophy.

Mike Connolly
276 Posted 03/03/2024 at 18:53:44
Phil @274,

It's not hard for goalkeepers to get MotM at Goodison ,our shooting is pathetic, even from 12 yards out.

Tony Abrahams
277 Posted 03/03/2024 at 18:55:07
I have always felt the Old Lady deserves to go out with a bang Paul, but sometimes I now have a feeling that it has been cursed.
Brent Stephens
278 Posted 03/03/2024 at 19:04:34
Mike #276,

“It's not hard for goalkeepers to get MotM at Goodison — our shooting is pathetic, even from 12 yards out.”

Mike, the keeper saves pathetic shots and gets Man of the Match. How does that work?

James Flynn
279 Posted 03/03/2024 at 20:33:48
January 2012 is when Bill was getting out of his car and a couple of supporters confronted him and he declared they were what was wrong with the club.

Andy Crooks
280 Posted 03/03/2024 at 20:40:13
The West Ham goalkeeper was brilliant yesterday. Made some great saves and oozed confidence. That is why they won.

Dave Lynch @259, I disagree with you often enough but that is a very pertinent post. When will missing chances end? Will one flukey goal open the floodgates or will we be saying the same thing, next week, next month?

Also, the thing that alarmed me most yesterday and which hasn't been mentioned was the arguing between two of our players. It was a bad look.

Paul Cherrington
281 Posted 04/03/2024 at 08:30:26
Disappoing result in the end and points dropped again. At least other results went for us which is something I guess.

You have to say that was some finish by Soucek for West Ham's second that is hard to do anything about but the initial cross has to be stopped from coming in. Not sure who was closest to the player who crossed but he has to be tighter to his man.

I like Beto and think fans should cut him some slack. Calvert-Lewin gets enough excuses made for missing chances – at least Beto actually scored. Something that Calvert-Lewin hasn't managed for ages, despite having some decent chances in multiple games.

The Haaland comparison with Calvert-Lewin doesn't hold weight for me – yes, Haaland misses a few too but look at how many he scores to make up for that. I think Calvert-Lewin plays better when he knows he is not an automatic choice, which is why Beto should be getting a run to prove himself properly.

Dyche is doing a fine job; we do create a good number of chances and have a good amount of shots in most games under him. As others have said, though, he can't score for us or stop people making silly mistakes once they are out on the pitch. Or the Premier League robbing us of hard-earned points which would see us higher in the league table.

Anthony Hawkins
282 Posted 04/03/2024 at 10:05:11
We've known for too many seasons that a quality striker has been needed and little done to resolve the issue. Strikers have been bought but they've been average and hopeful at best.

Yes, we're cash-strapped… but loan a quality striker if we can afford a permanent role. The difference is massive.

Phil Lewis
283 Posted 04/03/2024 at 12:41:28
My heart goes out to younger Evertonians.

It recently occurred to me that you would need to be over 50 years of age, give or take a few years, to be able to really remember consistently great and successful Everton teams. A shocking sobering statistic.

At 71 years old, I'm lucky enough to remember the league winners of 1963 featuring Alex Young, Roy Vernon and a player by the name of Tony Kay, destined for greatness before an untimely incident destroyed his career.

I also was blessed to witness Alan Ball's Everton. The greatest player to pull on the blue jersey. And of course Howard Kendall's magnificent mid-'80s team was near invincible.

The reason I mention all this, is that I find it extremely difficult having been accustomed to excellence for so long, to settle for the appallingly dire situation both on and off the park that my beloved Everton are currently faced with.

I lived through the mediocrity of Gordon Lee's regime, yet recent appalling managerial appointments of the past decade make even the Lee years seem acceptable.

It seems to me that, as time passes, people seem to almost accept mediocrity as a given.

It is forgivable and understandable for those too young to remember who know no better. But when I read some posts on TW, it is almost as if we have collectively accepted our fate and fail to see the dross that is being regularly served up each Saturday in 90-minute doses.

I still believe that we have the players capable of turning our situation around. I do not believe that they are being deployed in the correct manner. The jury is out on Sean Dyche. His appointment was very much in the 'Fireman Sam' mode.

For me, his version of survival tactics are not working, for the simple reason that he refuses to alter them. He has no alternative plan, when we are clearly crying out for one.

I think replacing him at this stage of the season would be insane. However, my personal preference would be for a new manager at the helm in the close season, regardless of whether we stay up or not.


Colin Malone
284 Posted 04/03/2024 at 14:54:34
Calvert-Lewin is a quality striker.

We need a proper Number 10 who can pass the ball and turn defenders. Doucouré has not got them skills.

Phil Lewis
285 Posted 04/03/2024 at 17:25:42
Colin #284,

I agree with you, but would argue that we already have one in Andre Gomes, who could fulfill the role you suggest, if Dyche would only give him a run of games in that position to prove it.

John Raftery
286 Posted 04/03/2024 at 17:43:03
One problem with Gomes is he is too slow getting around the pitch. Another is that he can’t stay fit for more than a couple of games. He can pass a ball and shoot occasionally but that isn’t enough in the Premier League.
Mike Doyle
287 Posted 04/03/2024 at 18:06:25
Phil #283,

I missed the '63 thru '70 teams (and thus never got to see the great Tony Kay in action).

My Everton watching coincided with the break-up of the 1970 side and decline of Harry Catterick. In the years since, only the Kendall Mk 1 period stands out. Actually, the stuff served up by the Bingham and Lee regimes was a massive improvement on what we've seen in the last few years.

What is also concerning is how the club deal with the impact of the 2nd points deduction that looks likely to be heading our way shortly. Just when you think things couldn't get any worse – they do.

Anthony Hawkins
288 Posted 04/03/2024 at 18:23:37
If Calvert-Lewin is that good a striker, how come he doesn't score – even with the opportunities?

Not saying he wouldn't benefit from a stronger #10, but his finishing hasn't been great.

David West
289 Posted 04/03/2024 at 18:57:07
If or when a new manager is appointed this year or next, would those calling for Dyche to be sacked be shocked to find the new guy still putting out the same 11 players?

Because, more or less, there's about 16 players who are first teamers, they are not all fit all the time, he's basically playing all his fit players all the time.

Yes, Beto could start more; yes, Gomes could… Godfrey could be swapped, Danjuma might get back, and Dobbin could get more time, but they are not going to drastically change our fortunes.

There's not going to be money to spend, what manager is going to come to this circus?? Or just jump back on the shit manager merry-go-round and see who we land on?

Hodgson's out of work… Pardew's available, we've missed out on Warnock! That just leaves Fat Sam – the star prize!!

Derek Taylor
290 Posted 04/03/2024 at 19:37:28
Were Calvert-Lewin or Beto to start scoring, they would race to be first out of the door come close season.

They are not likely to suddenly find the magic touch so no worry on that score, so down we go, and at least it will be an opportunity to see if both really are Championship level.

Brian Wilkinson
291 Posted 05/03/2024 at 16:06:58
Phil @183,

I struggle to agree on the dire Gordon Lee Era, I thought we were a joy to watch under Lee, the football was entertaining and we had some really good players, and an attacking side with players like Thomas, Latchford, King, McKenzie. What we lacked was a top class goalkeeper, although Wood was an upgrade on Lawson and Davies.

Towards his last season, Lee struggled, but at the same time, he signed up Graeme Sharp and had Stevens, Burrows, McMahon and a few others coming through who needed time to bed in.

I really enjoyed the Lee era, we were unlucky in 2 FA Cup semi-finals, '77 and '80, and a League Cup Final, '77, but watching Thomas's socks rolled down, putting a cross in for Latchford to bury, or an Andy King special are great times for me, loved those 1977-79 times.

Obviously the '60s and '80s teams were a class above any other teams but, for entertainment, I loved the entertainment that team served up in the Lee era.

Mark Murphy
292 Posted 05/03/2024 at 16:26:54
I'm with you, Brian. I know memory can be selective but we enjoyed some big wins with that team. Leicester away in the sunshine stands out for me.

Players such as Latchford, King, Dobson, McKenzie and Thomas would stroll into this current team.

Ken Kneale
293 Posted 05/03/2024 at 16:41:08
Phil @283,

The "mediocrity" as you suggest of Gordon Lee teams would feel like Ball, Kendall and Harvey returning after the paucity of the last decade.

We grumbled about Billy Bingham and Gordon Lee because we had been spoilt by the football quality of the '60s teams but, in reality, for much of the said two managers' era, we were at least capable of giving a game to the opposition and neither manager actively settled for the comfort zone of the later Moyes era by Kenwright Productions.

We have completely lost identity now. I am with you on feeling sorry for younger fans — what have they had to cheer for so long?

Paul Tran
294 Posted 05/03/2024 at 18:45:00
That Lee team was the first Everton side I loved. Scored goals, had pace, had players happy to put their foot in. And he was incredibly unlucky in the bigger games.

I often wondered what would have happened had the board stumped up the cash for Shilton and signed Rush as well as Sharp as Lee wanted.

Have we ever been well run?

Andy Crooks
295 Posted 05/03/2024 at 18:45:36
Brian @291,

One of my greatest memories as a Blue is the last day of the season against Chelsea when Bob Latchford scored his 30th goal of the season to win the prize money on offer from the Daily Express. Gordon Lee ran on to the pitch like Bob Stokoe at Wembley.

I loved the Lee era, probably because it coincided with other happy times.

Will Mabon
296 Posted 05/03/2024 at 19:15:58

I was at the start of months in hospital for that Latchford goal, hoping my recently rebuilt leg and other bits would remain attached (they did).

I've probably said this before but whenever looking back at the records of that Lee era, it was actually much better than when casually remembered: even the Bingham Robots* - sometimes. I think we had higher expectations back then.

*Thank you, Daily Mail.

Mike Doyle
297 Posted 05/03/2024 at 19:19:16
Attending a match in the days of Bingham & Lee often wasn't great, but we had groups of decent players who we expected would go out and try to win (even if they didn't).

I don't recall those teams conceding the majority of possession to opponents or relying heavily on set pieces for a goal (if we needed a goal, we just sent Mike Lyons up front). P>Thankfully neither xG nor VAR had been invented, though Clive Thomas would have fitted in well with today's officials.

John McFarlane Snr
298 Posted 05/03/2024 at 19:28:46
Hi Brian [291] & Andy [295],

There are many occasions that gave me pleasure down the years, but I think that the one that gave me the most pleasure was the 4-0 win against Oldham Athletic in 1954, which led to the return of Everton to the First Division.

I was three months short of 16 years old at the time, and I can recall the return journey from Clegg Street to Central Station and the enthusiasm of everyone.

I was disappointed that we had too little time to discuss football matters on Saturday, but I'm hoping that we can celebrate on the last day of this season at the Bramley Moore.

Will Mabon
299 Posted 05/03/2024 at 19:30:39
Mike, yes.

Thomas, an early nemesis of ours...

Ray Said
300 Posted 05/03/2024 at 19:39:33
A great memory for me is watching Duncan McKenzie swagger across the pitch, ball under total control and looking like a swashbuckling pirate that pirouetted around defenders unable to get a touch on him.

I hang my head at the times I cursed Gordon Lee and his team for not being up to our expected standards – how little I knew. I would be made up with a team half as good as in those days.

Barry Rathbone
301 Posted 05/03/2024 at 20:34:41
The Lee/Bingham era was really my coming of age regarding Everton fandom and it was bloody difficult.

The beginning of the '70s (the era covered) was the culmination of a period of titles and never to be forgotten FA Cup triumph. Expectations were higher here than anywhere because we expected to win trophies and in style.

It killed us.

The busy "crab-like", passing, pressing and grinding out results like Liverpool wasn't grand enough so we turned to shite chasing an impossible dream.

Lee referring to Duncan McKenzie as a tanner ball player or some such was a turning point as he got shut soon after and the last of the stardust was gone.

Despite Howie's mercurial few years in the early '80s we have never really recovered.

Brian Wilkinson
302 Posted 05/03/2024 at 22:04:48
Hi John Snr, always a pleasure to see you,

That was a great memory of yours and I always enjoy your knowledge of eras gone by of various Everton teams when we meet up, or what you post on here.

Be good if we have a Bramley Moore meet up when hopefully the weather will be better towards the end of the season, possibly the Sheffield Utd game.

Was tough for me Saturday, I had a filling that had chipped and sat through the game and pre match meet up with a throbbing wisdom tooth, looking forward to Friday when I can finally get it fixed.

Hopefully next time, John, we can have a proper chat.

Bobby Mallon
303 Posted 06/03/2024 at 06:35:06
Dave Lynch @235,

"Tony... with all due respect, mate, the damage had been done years before it came to Lampard's rallying call. We've been dead in the water for years, mate; it was always going to come to this when you look back on events. Hindsight and all that, eh."

I don't believe we have been dead in the water all that time. I believe we as fans thought we should be better placed in the League table than we were. Thought we were better than 8th to 12th. But actually we were not. That's been our problem.

I remember a mate of mine constantly complaining about Lukaku being a lazy bastard. Fuck, I wish Calvert-Lewin was as lazy. All the ifs in the world won't change where we are… scoring goals will.

Mark Murphy
307 Posted 07/03/2024 at 21:25:02
It was, Paul! A wonderful day out amongst quite a few I remember from those days. The sight of the Blue Streak disgorging millions of Blues into Leicester. The sunshine, the yellow kit, the team in their pomp and the joy in our ranks, many of whom had climbed in!

There were other big wins that season - at QPR also 5-1, 3-0 away at Sheffield Utd and of course that 6-0 at home v Coventry. I think we were unbeaten after the 3 or 4-1 opening day defeat to Cloughie's newly promoted Forest until Man Utd hammered us at Goodison on Boxing Day? I can stil remember Lou Macari's overhead goal and thinking WTF??

Much maligned was Gordon Lee – I think we were even top scorers in the league that season??

Paul Ferry
308 Posted 07/03/2024 at 21:28:45
I remember going to Filbert St that day in a minivan Mark, with a fella who looked like a furtive ferret driving.

That's quite the walk from Leicester Station to the ground.

Don Alexander
309 Posted 07/03/2024 at 21:44:54
Barry, our Ferry is beyond redemption but for what it’s worth I largely agree with your point, albeit McKenzie to me was playing in the wrong century through no fault of his own - his transfer out did no damage to us.

Since 1970 we’ve been woefully led in general, with the entire 21st century and more being a textbook example of how to kill a once great football club (yet plenty of numpties still weirdly revere the orchestrator).

BMD will at best only prolong our mediocrity because we, the fans, will be screwed rotten, again, by the limitless dysfunction of Moshiri and those shits he trusted. We’ll never own the place, its cost will preclude the buying of top players and we will stumble on, last on most MoTD’s, in the guise that engulfs us, namely a 21st century version of Coventry City.

Sorry to be so downcast but that’s the reality I see and have seen for decades.

Danny O’Neill
313 Posted 07/03/2024 at 22:20:09
Play nicely, Evertonians.

We all want the same thing come Saturday.

Some great memories up there.

A Beatles song just came into my head.

I Should Have Known Better

Listen to the words. It's like it was written for us!

But we've never known better or different!

Paul Ferry
314 Posted 07/03/2024 at 23:24:14
'Yer Blues', Danny, White Album?
Christine Foster
315 Posted 07/03/2024 at 23:30:46
On this site, there are many who are positive, many negative, some see the upside in all we do, others only the doom and gloom. It's what makes the site so good, so infuriating and contentious at times.

From my perspective, it's been downhill all the way with a few high points along the way since the last bit of silverware in '95. But Destination Kirkby did my head in, only then did I dig into who and what the reasons were and why things were the way they were. Like lifting a rock, what was found was not nice and the 24/7 search that found Moshiri was a testament to the arrogance of our then chairman.

The rancour on here was bitter, division and bile, two camps converging because of incompetence and stupidity until unity of sorts was achieved because of adversity.

But we all love Everton. All we have currently is a team, we no longer have a team leading us off the field, an absent owner, an interim board, a Premier League who seemingly want us gone (together with our owner) and new kids on the block who look like wide boys, all mouth and no trousers as mum used to say.

But the fans, my god, the fans, it's like that film The 300.

So you can point to the reasons for why we are where we are but it's rather pointless because right now we have to get up, support and win to survive. That's all. Dyche has to shape a team that will win games with what he has. That's all.

Now, of course we all have different views on who and how it's done, but never lose sight of the goal (even if Calvert-Lewin has and Beto will never take a penalty again!).

We need to win. That's what it's all about. Focus!

Mark Murphy
316 Posted 08/03/2024 at 11:38:05

I was also in a transit van. I don't think I know you so I'm pretty sure it wasn't the same Van. Ours was driven by a feisty builder, born near Scotland road, emigrated to St Helens - by the name of Ken Skelhorn, God rest his royal blue soul! A great blue who drove his son and me to many games home and away.

He didn't resemble a ferret - more an angry isrishman! So I wasn't on the train - I think we just drove past the station - not sure -it was a long time ago. But I have walked from the station to the new ground in recent years. Took about 25 minutes I seem to recall?

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