Forest deliver hard lesson to goalless Blues

Ndiaye and Broja could cause problems for Forest.

I fancy him to get a couple today.

In fact, can't see why he gets the nod over anyone.

I'm hopeful of a win for a change…

Save it for Doucoure, it won't be wasted! :-)

What is everyone going to whinge about? Unlucky Jack, looks like it's you today.

Options.

And there's 4 if you count Keane!

It will be interesting to see how we play with Broja starting.

He can't win, can he? Two goalies he gets slaughtered, too many defenders, he gets slaughtered, now he's got three forwards on the bench and it's still not good enough!!!

Perhaps a little light with regards to midfield options. COYB.

I'm not sure how Harrison keeps his place.

Iwobi MarkII is what he is. At least Iwobi, occasionally, could pass to a teammate.

Anyone know what’s wrong with Tim and James?

Same reason Broja is starting – Dyche would never change it otherwise.

https://privatemedia.tv/?league=20&coupon=soccerzit

I was kinda hoping that he'd go for a genuine front 3 and play Broja wide right. But the shithouse continues with 4-5-1.

I think you are forgetting Iwobi's last season. Players Player of the Year. 6 goals 8 assists. He's streets ahead of Harrison in terms of footballing ability.

And I'm not rewriting history, he was definitely inconsistent in previous seasons but especially under Dyche he added workrate to his creative ability.

It will be interesting to see how this game unfolds.
Come on you Blues!

That good form was under Lampard not Dyche... his output, like most of our attacking players, suffered.

Dyche joined in January 2023. He selected Iwobi for every game for the remainder of the season.

Three players were key in keeping us up in that period; Pickford, Doucoure and Iwobi.

Put your Dyche obsession aside and have a day off.

Yet you are telling posters about rewriting history?

Players' Player of the Year.

If you know your history…

I know, you're all surprised to read this. He can't even pass to a team mate 3 ft away

Hope Dyche and the players notice that the goal came from supporting the striker.

This is all a bit embarrassing at the moment.

Fullbacks offering very little going forward. Doucoure useless as usual. Where's the goal coming from?

Doucoure continues to make no sense. What do we realistically expect to create through him?

Forest are so good on playing on the break that we are at our most vulnerable when we have the ball.

Broja needs to have the ball played through to him but, to do that, we need someone to do that. He does look more than a threat than Calvert-Lewin but maybe Dyche has to find a way to play both of them?

Get Harrison and Doucoure off as they are awful. Got to get Calvert-Lewin on with Broja. We wouldn't score if we stayed out there all night.

I hope the Yanks sack him before it's too late, whatever the result today.

We are lucky there are three teams still worse than us.

While we are at i,t Keane for Tarkowski, who is looking ropey.

I can't believe Forest are 2nd in the table – just shows what a mediocre league it is this season. With the exception of Liverpool, there are no standouts at all.

This is awful to watch.

We need wingers or full-backs who can get to the line rather than just hoof in a hopeful cross from 40 yards out.

Then, for their goal, the ball was given away needlessly in the Forest half and Tarkowski, not for the first time this season, was caught out of position, not marking his man, and then making very little effort to get back.

Then we have what is technically called refereeing. He gives Tarkowski a yellow for a perfectly good more of a win-the-ball than tackle and then the Forest man runs in and trips over him. If anything ,the Forest player was more deserving of a booking.

Then twice Forest bring down our player off the ball and he gives nothing. Then later after totally ignoring the shirt pulling and the push in the back on Branthwaite, he gives a foul against Broja for similar but far less. And where was VAR?

The standard of the Premier League is getting worse despite the hype.

You might as well throw 2 up because all we do is boot it to a lonely striker.

Forest allowed us to have possession. And why wouldn't you? Forest gave up possession in exchange for control of the game.

Too late to make changes and they get a second.

Typical of the never has been.

Pathetic. Get him off. Go 2 up top.

I'd drop Mykolenko and play Young left-back as well. Solid defensively but offers nothing going forward.

And he won't be given much of a chance under Dyche as a direct result.

Fair play to Forest. They've looked good. But we've also been dreadful.

The players should be docked their wages for that shit-show of a performance. An utter disgrace.

Calvert-Lewin should be got rid of asap – if anyone is stupid enough to buy him.

Crystal Palace won and Wolves draw. We are looking downwards not upwards.

Individual errors from experienced players. Had lots of the ball but missing that little bit of devil around the box. Can't be solved by chequebook. Working harder than I've ever worked.
I've said endlessly...

The notions of running into space with the ball, pass and move, and overlap are beyond us.

I hope the new owners have a replacement manager lined up.

We looked better when Lindstrom and Ndiaye are told to push on, with full-backs supporting them.

My other takeaways are that we shouldn't let Beto go before we let Calvert-Lewin go; Mykolenko is piss-poor going forward, Harrison does fuck all, Doucoure mustn't get a contract extension, and we need a squad with the kind of depth that Forest now have.

I mean, Forest were bang average, but they were well-drilled and have pace on the break. They look a bit like a Moyes side. No chance of them finishing Top 4 though.

Doucoure, Calvert-Lewin, Lindstrøm, Ndiaye, Young and Gueye were bad. Tarkowski, Mykolenko and Harrison were abject.

The only bright spot was Patterson at right-back.

Yes, we did the defensive thing against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City but, when we absolutely needed to score against a team that was right down in the doldrums with us last season, we just couldn't raise a glove.

And as for that fucking tart Calvert-Lewin, two glorious chances put right on his noggin, the iconic centre-forward who gets no service... my arse!

Today, same team — no idea. He needs to go and quick.

Send Harrison back to Leeds. Give Patterson a chance. Tarkowski had a mare.

We are so boring to watch.

I wonder if we could apply the £10M it cost to sack Silva towards paying to get him back! I'd prefer the Bournemouth manager though.

We can't spend an entire season playing for nil-nils. It's disgraceful and a massive turn off. If they want to increase commercial revenues, they won't do it with this fella and this football.

Today, while we lose at home, Wolves have drawn at Spurs and Palace have won at home.

Three wins all season is abysmal. That midfield of Gueye, Doucoure, Mangala, Harrison was designed in hell. I'd keep Mangala in the team and send the other three to a League One club.

It's written in the stars that our last season at Goodison sees us leave the Premier League unless the manager is changed quickly.

Yet again, hats off the the loyal who turn up every week. This is the worst manager we have ever had.

Positive outcomes from the match: Ndiaye was brilliant again. It was good to see we had more possession of the ball, can't remember last time when we had that?

Bring on January and a good acquisition to the squad, then we might sort some of the puzzle in the final third.

Have a Happy New Year, UTT.

I was surprised when Gana was taken off unless it was because he was on a yellow as Doucoure had done little for the energy he was putting in.

And again, poor and inconsistent refereeing which seemed to indicate that shirt pulling and pushing in the back are no longer against the rules, is nobody in charge or trying to improve this?

As well as being poor on attack we don't seem to have much of a system on throw-ins which is still the most common set piece in the game.

Disappointing.

As Leon said, we were giving the forwards no chance with the type of angles the crosses were coming in at.

I thought Lindstrom was starting to look more like a player, but Dyche has got to let us try to win games like this from the start rather than always starting deep and relying on hopeful punts either into the channels or aimlessly onto the lone striker's noggin.

Relegation battle yet again. This is getting really fucking boring.

No gameplan whatsoever.

Had it been the BBC, I would have shrugged it off; however, we are really poor. Also gifted them both goals if my ears and cognitive abilities are still working…

Harrison needs to be given a National coach ticket back to Leeds. Doucoure, so many times gave the ball away. Was there any decent individual performances apart from Pickford? (Again!)

It was a workmanlike performance from Forest who outplayed us at our own game. I think we have played defensive football so long, we have forgotten direct football. We deserved to be beaten today.

One last point: Broja had a chance to impress today, but he failed, he's not the answer. Beto in his cameo was far better.

They will act to protect their investment.

Give him service and he'll score... yer right!

As I have posted previously, today and next week are the real test. Games we could win. It is so transparently obvious that Dyche is just not up to the task. It was 81 minutes before a shot on target. He has to go, and go soon.

Thankfully, with the exception of the late equaliser by Wolves, other results have helped. We shouldn't be looking down.

We should be securing our own future. Not going to happen under Dyche. It will go to the wire. New Year, new start please.

They did what we asked and tried to play a more positive game but the outcome was predictable. The pain continues.

It's clear the new owners certainly won't accept that level on their investment. So, I fully expect a change. It's in the post, just a matter of when.

Well said, Christine.

When you see Harrison and Doucoure starting every game, you know we're not going to score, no matter who's upfront.

Our fullbacks never overlap, and we don't have wingers with speed; our midfield has no playmaker, and Patterson looked good today, but won't start under Dyche.

He's okay shutting up shop and frustrating certain sides away from home but any other part of football is beyond Sean Dyche.

That win rate is disgusting – and it was the same last season don't forget, 14 match winless streak wasn't it?

For me, thank him, shake his hand but he's got to be moved on before much longer, in my opinion.

I hope that TFG have the next move planned.

The hope remains as it did from Day 1 – scramble enough points to avoid the drop because ability-wise, anything beyond rudimentary football would see us mullered and there's not a single thing that can be done about it without better players.

The ceiling for this present group is around 6th from bottom meaning mostly crap results and unadventurous footy and supporters having a paddy won't change matters one jot.

Well, it might if it produces the toxic Goodison effect opponents sneakily play for. Reality requires brave hearts and it is yet to be seen if Evertonians still have it.

Your post last week got the treatment it deserved. Maybe not. it deserved more.

You got your wish and Calvert-Lewin didn't play today. Now you know. Thats what Everton look like without him... Were you impressed?

Broja and Beto have both been assigned the Calvert-Lewin role and have both failed miserably. if you are going to come on with an "I told you so", at least have the good grace to watch the game first.

There's about a 10-day gap between league games and a new guy with TFG will have all of January to shift players. If rumours are to be believed, Thelwell's also had enough of Dyche.

Next week could be interesting. A point away to Bournemouth I don't think will be enough. One win in the last 10 now… Bournemouth also flying, similar to Forest.

If we get rid of Dyche now, the chance of us getting a good replacement is halved: who wants to come in in January, with all this pressure?

We are a much more attractive proposition once the season is finished.

On the plus side, if we need the 'Dyche Out' plane over Goodison, our new owner can fly it!

The terrifying reality is that the dinosaur could be as good as we can get. The Everton manager-go-round has stopped with him and our destiny is with him until the end of this season. It may not end well.

I got a bit of criticism for saying against Chelsea there was a chance in that last 15 minutes of going for the win as I felt they were gone physically and mentally. A point against a good side like that is commendable but then a game today which should be a lot more winnable proves totally the opposite.

Players are getting hammered but they just don't know what to do. Nuno appears as negative as Dyche but, when they go forward, they go with purpose and know where each one is unison. Those little triangles are not about quality of player but quality of coaching. They defend as a unit but attack as a unit.

Posters will berate Calvert-Lewin, Gueye, Doucoure, Mykolenko and Broja all they want but we play like a pub team with pub players for a reason. The only bright spark was there was a decent relationship between Patterson and Lindstrom when the former came on despite never getting the chance to play together.

I couldn't believe how outspoken the commentators were when they said that was a masterclass from Nuno. TFG take note!

It's bloody Dyche that has got us in this mess in the first place.

It doesn't matter what striker is upfront, we offer nothing from the wings, and no playmaker in midfield.

For fuck's sake, we've seen Calvert-Lewin and he's bang average; no one will ever convince me that Ashley Young is a better option at right-back than Patterson; and Tarkowski is a yard dog.

Dyche out now, for fuck's sake, he is an embarrassment. Without a doubt this is one of the worst most boring Everton sides I've watched in 50 years. 3 wins this season, 8 in a year and yet we still have fans who'd keep him.

Marco Silva is 100 times the manager this prick is and we chased him. I can't wait til this loser is punted.

Heading for a record low scoring season, a record low number of wins, a record high number of draws in a season.

But the most damning: setting new records for the most consecutive unimaginative, sterile, impotent team set ups and tactics I have ever had the misfortune to witness or indeed ever played in (at my lowly level), period.

Dyche won't push his full-backs on so you can cross from nearer the by-line because he hasn't a bloody clue how to fill the void they leave.

Thus we get countered too easily; he can't see it on a pitch and his assistants are too scared to tell him. So, he cowardly reverts to type and instructs our players to launch aimless balls at the box from a safe position.

He is good at setting up defence, but the worst coach I have ever seen at attacking, cohesive joined-up football. Coaches like him don't want pace all over in their teams – that takes careful planning and understanding of what's necessary at any particular moment in a game.

He will not allow that, because he is not in complete control then, and his ego will not tolerate that. He'sothing more than an ABC coach who shouts a lot of nonsense from the sidelines.

He 's not brave enough and has zero trust in his players' abilities. That's why his teams are always so hamstrung and ridiculously rigid.

If you want flirting with relegation every season, then crack on with this bloke. I happen to think Everton FC are worth far more than that.

Also, I don't dislike the guy, he's okay… but he will never put out anything even approaching an expansive team to play footy.

Mykolenko was never a standout player, and his shortcomings are all too evident to everyone now.

How or why Harrison was offered another year is very puzzling...

Calvert-Lewin and Doucouré are end-of-contract players who are tepid performers...

Our centre-backs can and will improve, the window gives us hope for some new blood.PSR makes a sale or sales likely: for me, Calvert-Lewin can go but if Chermiti is a crock, we need to keep Beto.

Questions:

Can we shed Harrison? Why did we buy O'Brien? How good is Armstong? Where's Tim Iroegbunam?...

I don't have the answers, but I hope the new owners have a plan, and Thelwell has a budget.

Waiting with baited breath...

Only Southampton have scored less goals than us and they've beaten us. Last season, it was only Sheffield Utd who scored less, surely that tells you something about a manager who is almost praised for his team's defensive "qualities" but still are only outside the Bottom 3 by the skin of.

Having said that, after the draws at Arsenal and Man City, and at home to Chelsea, this was an opportunity to kick on today against a solid enough Forest side. We could have started with Patterson and Lindstrøm, stuck Ashley Young at left back and dropped Harrison and Mykolenko, both of whom are useless going forward.

We could have had Gueye playing in front of the back four, and Mangale in the Number 6, but dropped Doucoure and had Calvert-Lewin playing behind Broja.

Even with the poor squad, there are options to doing things differently and to start off trying to win a game like today's.

Having said that, Tarkowski and Branthwaite were poor at the back, and so Forest were always going to pick us off on the break. But maybe, just maybe, we could have pushed them back and scored ourselves.

Start as you mean to go on and clear out both of them. Every game counts.

33/34 points will normally be just enough to stay up. Barring a major miracle, Southampton and Ipswich are down. They need to average significantly more than a point a game from now on. Not impossible but highly unlikely.

West Ham and above should be fine and I cannot imagine Man Utd being dragged down. Palace are playing much better and, if the Cunha injury isn't bad, I expect Wolves to be fine.

So, as it stands, it's us vs Leicester for the 3rd relegation spot – if we keep Dyche. (Another team may fall off the wagon – eg, Brentford… we'll see.)

Tough call to change admittedly but, if we lose to Bournemouth, I'm not sure TFG will have the patience to stick. They will undoubtedly have checked out the managers available and interested prior to the takeover. Iroegbunam and Garner coming back will help but we just can't get goals – can't win without them…

One thing Frank Lampard got right was Doucoure is no way good enough, but he is first on the team sheet for Dyche.

As soon as we get rid of them both the better. Doucoure must be the worst Number 10 and defensive midfielder in the Premier League and Championship.

A win today would have been massive. In the context of our previous three results, it would have made us look like a solid mid-table side. A defeat makes any path to 10 wins seem unlikely, so we'll need three sides to be worse.

The team is incapable of scoring in a month of Sundays, and that's on the manager. Dyche out — and now please!

Ed #92, I'm sure they do. The question is when. Might not be as soon as you'd like.

Christine #83, are you kidding? Broja's first start for the club and you're writing him off already? And Colin #94, he's "failed miserably" in 126 minutes on the pitch? Wow. No. Give the guy a shot.

Pat #109, I'd trust Thelwell with money more than any other DoF or manager I've seen in our club in the past 10 years, save Carlo. Kevin may or may not be kept on, but I think he's done a terrific job under nightmarish circumstances.

The squad maybe poor, but there was no evidence today of any kind of link-up play, no synergy whatsoever, nothing to indicate that they work on anything in training besides defending deep and in numbers.

Dyche is a footballing dinosaur and needs to go sooner rather than later. If we stay up under him, it will be because there are 3 worse teams than us and not because of his ability as a manager.

The only bright spot was the introduction of Patterson who at least gave us some kind of threat on the right side. Nothing else worth mentioning besides that.

Don't give me this bullshit about who would want this job in January. Loads of top-class managers in Europe would give their left testicle to prove themselves in the Premier League.

Bournemouth, Wolves, Brighton, Aston Villa, etc… have all proved that good fortune favours the brave.

It is far more a failing of the coaching staff than individual player performance or ability (though we have some distinctly average).

We may stay up as there may be 3 teams worse than us but the credit for that is not Dyche's.

Actually, even then it will be close.

Dyche out.

It looked like the team had received a PowerPoint presentation yesterday - “After the last 3 games of blanket defence, tomorrow you are going to have to attack a bit”. Unfortunately, the methodology for doing so was not imparted. And when the players tried some ad-lib, they had insufficient skill and guile.

Forest defended stoutly, and broke quickly against a slow side. The result was predictable after 10 minutes.

While we lack a creative player in the middle, it can't fully explain the awfulness of our forward play. There's a complete lack of understanding between the players. Is there a tactical approach to what we're trying to do in the opposition half?

It looks like we make it up as we go along. We've an extremely limited squad of players making it even more important that they are well drilled, going forward as well as at the back.

There doesn't appear to be a plan – and that's on Dyche.

Have any of them contributed anything?

I was never a Dyche fan but, for Christ's sake, using Doucoure, Harrison, Calvert-Lewinand fucking Young gets you where we are: in trouble again.

Get rid of Dyche now before the damage is irreparable.

And if you don't believe a decent coach can turn it around, we have just been soundly beaten by a team that last season was fighting against relegation same as us.

The squad is not that bad though, maybe a few individuals need to go, but if we look at Villa and now Forest, both just avoided relegation, and with almost the same squad are in the European places.

Maybe we can do the same, if only we knew what changed at those clubs?

We'll be first in line for the useless, injury prone, past it — all welcome to L4.

Problem is though that we need one striker who can finish on a regular basis.

Dyche has a very poor squad and not a great deal to pick from but three of them players offer very little every game. One of them offers next to nothing going forward or defending yet he picks them for all games.

We, the fans, know who they are but Dyche still selects them, and he gives Patterson a shout today when we are 2-0 down. I don't think he is playing the game with this kid!

I do not dislike Dyche as a person and thank him for what he has done over the last 2 seasons, ie, keeping us up. But it has been obvious for a long time that, tactically, he is limited and inflexible.

It looks like the other teams know how to handle Everton as we are devoid of ideas on the field.

Which is what I've been saying with Dyche, we suit teams that have all the possession and we sit in.

When we have the responsibility to control possession and the initiative to go forward, we will always be devoid of the quality, cutting edge and composure to hurt teams who sit in against us.

It's why points against top 5-6 teams are good but, when we are playing our rivals at the wrong end of the table, I'd say we are going to struggle.

Get us a striker, creatine goalscoring midfielder, and left-back, please, Mr Friedkin!

But vocal fans behaved like sheep following the propaganda led by that Bobble on Everton Twitter spaces saying we shouldn't allow Joorabchian's choice as manager as he had too much influence on Moshiri.

There isn't a 10-day gap after Bournemouth. We have an FA Cup tie at home to Peterborough.

Forest were very well drilled, whilst Everton were not quite sure of one's job.

Dyche said he never sent us out to play like that but the lack of cohesion, the lack of speed, and the lack of just doing things naturally are all currently missing from our team.

I think one of the only times I saw Everton play on the front foot, I smelled the danger and, 10 seconds later, Woods had scored a great goal, but was massively helped by “the starting position” of Everton's incredible high line.

Too many players at our club right now just not good enough – we rarely see any change in tactics from Dyche and this tells you everything.

If Moyes wants the job, it is a certainty in my opinion.

The reason both attack and defence can't be improved simultaneously is because our apparent improvement defensively isn't really down to an improved defence.

It is simply sending the entire 11 out as a defensive unit that sometimes makes you difficult to beat.

Dyche thinks that's the best way of utilizing this squad so that kills any real attacking ideas.

When Martinez reversed this philosophy, as practiced by Moyes, the back line was exposed for the mediocre standard it really was and we shipped in goals like there was no tomorrow.

Fortunately, by working the oracle and picking up Rom, Delboy and others for 5 quid we scored more than we let in but it won't work every season. Sooner or later, you have to spend big.

Sack everyone and start from scratch. Sigh… :(

I'm not too disheartened, as I didn't think we'd get more than a point against Forest at the moment, though 3 points would have been a Godsend.

I still cannot fathom whether it is the manager and coaches who can't coach agame plan with the players; or,

Is it the players as they can't seem to execute simple (for them) passes, and when not in possession, instead of running behind the ball carrier as an option (or worse, stand still)! Why, when a player receives a pass, why don't they know where their team mates are, or have plan as to what to do with the ball?

I lost count of the number of times a pass was misplaced, either behind, too far in front, short or too long today! Then we had the player receive a pass, stop and instead of running into space or taking steps forward, immediately look to get the ball away (mostly purposelessly)! With maybe three exceptions: Branthwaite going forward; Lindstrøm when he came on; and usually Patterson.

I thought Beto put in a good shift today; maybe with more confidence (and minutes under his belt), he would have buried his headed chance.

I thought Dyche tried to change the game, but the tactics didn't change (as far as I could see, but was there a plan in the first place?), and I didn't see anyone pass on instructions? Which probably meant that, as the changes were mostly like for like, it must have meant the plan never changed though the personnel did?

I will leave the Dyche - Thelwell conundrum to TFG, but please could Dyche either try Harrison on the left, with Ndiaye on the right, with our two 'most' creative players, either Lindstrøm or McNeil, at #10...

As for a shopping list, please Dear Dan, could we have a technically gifted two-footed right-winger with above average pace please...

He signed Tarkowski on a free (and where would we be without him??), Young on a free, Gana on a free, Garner dirt cheap, Beto cash delayed, Mangala on a great loan, Broja on loan.

And even when our finances forced him to sell, he has made great sales large (Richarlison, Iwobi, his own signing Onana) and small (Godfrey, Dobbin) and cleared out all the deadwood everybody was screaming about for years.

Nobody's going to get them all correct, but I think he's done superbly under impossible circumstances, and he's earned the right to show what he can do with actual money available.

Rumour has him being replaced by Dan Ashworth, but we'll see.

If you are going to go with two up top keep the centre of midfield solid. Taking off Doucoure for Calvert-Lewin was so obvious, it is incredulous Dyche couldn't see that was the right move.

3 wins all season and I don't think his defensive system works. We give up far too many chances in every single game and, if they go in, we are done.

The standard of refereeing is still a massive worry too.

We have new owners so what do they think?

Let us know please ASAP.

No way, not a cat in hell's chance. Since day one this season Dyche has only spoken about it being another hard season, another fight against the drop. You didn't hear anyone at Forest saying that, and they were fighting along with us last season.

Dyche has had money, not lots, but he's had money, he's been given permission to bring in loans:

£16M paid on Jake O'Brien?
£20M on Beto?
Harrison on loan… TWICE!

He's got a young right back sitting on the bench can't get in ahead of a 36- or 39-year-old. He's got a Denmark international that he brought in on loan. A talented player in Iliman Ndiaye.

These are his players now.

They then scored an awful goal from a defensive point of view (long ball to Wood was unchallenged, header back to him was unchallenged and then Branthwaite was out of position so Wood had time to pick his spot. That goal and the Man City goal were both down to his positioning – he's great but still has much to learn.

Once we were down, we played frenetically and without coordination and misplaced so many easy crosses – Mykolenko and Lindstrom both culpable. We still made half chances but Calvert-Lewin is a below-average finisher as is Beto.

When Forest scored their second, it was completely game over.

Dyche tried everything: Broja starting, replacing Harrison, and attacking full-back (I thought Patterson did okay actually) and 2 up front towards the end. I just wonder if we could have tried Calvert-Lewin & Broja from the start and looked to play them in the channels as they're both fast & strong.

This is where we're maybe too conservative at home. I don't mind Doucoure in the No 10 position away or against top opposition but it doesn't work any more at home and we need to create a new plan, a new dimension.

We plod on with the same stale dross. Draining the life out of everyone. Goodison Park deserved a far better closing season than this.

In answer to your question,. Ndiaye was outstanding. Head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch.

Well said in defence of Kevin Thelwell, unfortunately, opinions as per have already crystalised on their views on Kev.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, and he has had to work under intense pressure. I remember when he did the Coaching Talk video in 21/22, he said he thought that Everton would be a one year project to correct, then on arrival, he realised it would be a 24-30 month project, and now he has admitted it is still a case of work in progress...

I wonder if they might look at ending Lindstrøm's and Harrison's loans and look to bring in a specialist RFW (or two?) if the loans can be terminated in January.

We lack any real quality.

Time and again today Mangala and Ndiaye were looking for that pass to open up their defence but sadly there was no one there to pass it to.

We are not a solid defensive team unless we are sent out to defend as an 11 and try scab a goal on the break. If we try front foot football our defence are left exposed and quite frankly they look poor.

Mykelenko and Young are simply not good enough. Their quality if ball into the box is nothing shy of pathetic.

Forest were not that good today, we made them look good. We could have easily won this game but yet again the sheer lack of quality in the team shows.

We need a few honest pros in the January window if we can get them in, to get us to the end of the season, keep us in this league then we can look for change.

We need change.

I'm in Carleton, PLF on Blackpool Rd (NB Not Blackpool Old Road!) hehe.

Iroegbunam, Garner, Chermiti, Broja …anonymous for various reasons. Injured when signed, injury prone, out of form? Whatever, they've largely been AWOL. And we took Dele as part of the Richarlison deal, so net his salary cost off the price we got.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Thelwell. I haven't seen anyone come in for him. Let's see where he ends up.

Mike's post highlights some good wheeling and dealing but I put it down to the DoF rather than the head coach. Even after some decent moves on players, we are still dreadful.

I can't help but judge Dyche in the harshest possible light. Today answered a lot of questions asked during our 3 good draws.

Just sick and tired of the same conversations: "You'd be a fool to get rid of Dyche" and "He'll keep us up"… Will he?

In one game, Forest got the same number of points as our 3 games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City.

Think about it. If you go out to not lose, ultimately you will probably lose more points than you could have got with a more progressive manager.

I'll say again, Dyche isn't pragmatic as some would have you believe. He is negative.

Jim #144, perfect. Forest would be Bottom 3 under Dyche and they would probably be okay with it. We are Everton. We are not okay with it.

There is absolutely no reason in the world why the Friedkins would hire a manager whose sole qualification is a connection to Everton that ended 12 years ago. They don't know Moyes and they won't bother meeting him. That's the certainty.

I too live in Carleton and not far from your good self. (Tudor Close).

We have to stop taking about players, managers, coaches, new owners and every other thing under the sun.

One thing, and the only thing, that matters is that we stay in the Premier League.

It is a small world, especially when it comes to Evertonians! My sister used to date an EFC STH who lives in PLF town centre!

Christ, that's five Blue Noses I know who live in or around PLF, as a (young) couple who go to the gym are Blue Noses too! You keeping well?

Drab game, but more or less after the first 5-10 minutes I.e. just before Forest scored, I just had bad vibes. I agreed with your post above re the match.

Did he ask him to get him when he left Newcastle? Maybe they don't sing off the same hymn sheet.

Anyway, we'll see how it shakes out. My blind guess is that the Friedkins will keep him on.

When you you into a club struggling you have to find a way to get points. He did that! He brought in Beto, O'Brien, Lindstrøm, Ndiaye and Broja. But still playing the same way!!!

Beto won't be able to play up front alone in this system. Lindstrøm and Ndiaye are wasted playing as midfielders instead of wingers.

O'Brien is an international player, with experience of playing in Europe –can't he do what Tarkowski does? Or can't there be a 3-man central defensive option?

He's signed players, he's had some money, obviously been forced to sell too, but these are not donkeys, they are being asked to do donkey work!!

It must sap the enthusiasm from the players like Lindstrøm, Ndiaye and even McNeil. By the time they get an opportunity to affect the game, in an attacking sense, they are goosed with all the ball chasing!

The centre of our midfield needs totally changing, Doucouré and Gana are finished as Premier League players. Mangala isn't the answer. Garner and Iroegbunam may come good but it's creaking now our midfield, so it's a priority in January, with a striker.

Agree that the new owners will not be considering Moyes in the short, medium or long term; however, I am not sure how many of the out-of-work managers you mentioned would be interested in us.

In my view, we have a serious lack of creative talent on the books. I would be surprised if it was any other way given our net spend over the past 3 seasons!

I'm good thanks for asking.

I could ‘smell it', I called the right result today, not that I'm happy about it.

If we keep knocking on this trap door… one day we may fall through. We have to start winning games.

Sorry but I'm probably gonna leave you even more confused.

Most of the season, I've been defending the players including the likes of Harrison, Lindstrom and Calver-Lewin because I feel they are asked to do unnatural and often impossible jobs; hence they are made to look much shitter than they actually are.

Today, we faced what is perceived to be an equally defensive manager like Dyche, indeed he has failed at all the big clubs like Valencia, Porto and Spurs because he was seen as too cautious with his counter-attacking style, yet has been very successful with clubs with lower expectations.

The big difference is that he does try to look for balance. If you have seen today, he was happy to concede possession, but trusted his players to defend one on one while letting his wide players and forwards have licence to attack.

Aina for example was left alone with Ndiaye even though he knew that was our best outlet and Aina still got forward when possible. That is totally different from Dyche.

You, like me and many others, want a pacey wide man but who could we sign? Who is going to be productive when their first job is to counter the left winger which virtually makes Ashley Young defunct?

Then he must have Premier League experience and must follow Dyche's letter to the law.

Mangala took 3 months to be a regular despite being Forest's best player last season.

Ndiaye had experience in the Championship yet had to outshine everyone to get his place.

O'Brien hasn't had a kick despite an injury crisis early on.

Lindstrom still can't get in front of Harrison.

I'm not joking when I say that Anthony of Man Utd maybe the only player we could sign due to availability, experience, and the requirements of Dyche.

No goal scorer is a problem and Calvert-Lewin's weak headers compound that problem. One of the reasons that Everton have a low possession rate is that some players continually give the ball away.

Chris Wood was not "available on a free in the summer." Forest paid Newcastle £15M for him in 2023.

Them being a counter-attacking side, us being at home and having to attack, especially when behind to that great Wood finish, played into their hands.

They were 2nd in the Premier League at the final whistle. They are no mugs, in a purple patch. We are yet to find our shooting boots. Not enough efforts on target again. Zero goals again.

Changes were made, Calvert-Lewin dropped, Harrison hauled off at half-time, Patterson on, 2 up top. Still drew a blank.

Shooting boots need to be found by Broja, Calvert-Lewin, Beto or Chermiti (or whichever new striker comes in in January). Stating the bleeding obvious again.

Goals change games. 4 in one game against Wolves then back to blankety-blank. Friedkin has cheque book and pen thankfully (subject to PSR of course). UTFT.

Disagree with your "sole qualification" opinion. Moyes is probably the only manager in those names that knows all about a relegation battle in the Premier League.

Moyes and his past connection with the club would actually give the players a lift.

The other names you mention are more glamorous but could be much more risky appointments at this time of the season.
There would be many factors to consider if Dyche does get the sack.

The strikers aren't the problem; we could play all four we have in the same game and not one would score with the abject, pathetically poor quality of service they get.

Strikers feed off good service; we need more quality butlers to provide the service they thrive on.

Who in their right mind would enjoy playing as a sole striker, where you have to feed off scraps, are expected to win games single-handed and turn long hoof ball into goal scoring opportunities? 💁🏼

We have fallen so far back, it's almost prehistoric.

And I'll take a guess: Thelwell will share Dyche's taxi! 😀

I don't get to the Castle, or anywhere in PLF anymore. I'm at that stage of Life where buying an 'everlasting' cup of coffee at The Elk is living the high life for me now!

I do see the odd Royal Blue shirt, unless that's you, when I'm driving about.

But... Yes, it seems an illogically high number of Blue Noses for very unimportant pimple on the Fylde peninsula..?

My excuse, was when I was growing up (or my formative years) everyone supported the RS side of the early-mid 70s, so I supported their biggest rivals instead...

As for us, I just don't see how we are going to score a goal from open play. We get to the final 3rd and either pass it backwards or put a terrible cross in.

I don't see any patterns to our play. Even our set pieces were terrible today. Beto taking a corner! Lindstrøm hitting the first man, the lack of quality is as low as I have ever seen.

At 0-1, I thought we had a good shout for a penalty when their giant centre-back pushed Branthwaite to the floor in the box but the ref obviously didn't.

I thought we started more aggressive in the 2nd half but the mix-up between Doucoure, Mykolenko and Branthwaite for their 2nd killed the game.

Credit where it's due: Patterson came on and tried to get forward and put a couple of half-decent crosses in. We just aren't very good.

We are desperate for new faces or even some competition for places. We need Iroegbunam and Garner back asap plus a couple of signings in January.

I think TFG will change the manager – though looking at how they have gone about things at Roma doesn't provide much comfort.

MotM was probably Ndiaye, we didn't get the ball to him enough.

Whenever I am having a bad day I check the Everton score and smile?

He has paid for a media guru to grow his media profile by being controversial – Trump he ain't!

The pair of them are totally clueless. After 20 minutes today I heard a lad behind me saying we won't score today and how spot on was he!

Our loveable neighbours have plundered 14 goals in their last 3 games – the total amount we've scored since August… how utterly appalling is that?

I heard Dyche the other day saying how he thinks the Friedkins think he's doing a good job; if that's the case, we are well and truly up Shit Strasse without a paddle.

Wolves have picked up 7 points in their last 3 games since O'Neil was sacked and 2 of them games were quite difficult fixtures.

Not a fucking prayer Sean Dyche's Everton would beat Man Utd at home and draw at Spurs away because Dyche sets Everton up not to lose, not to try and win the game, the negative bastard.

3 wins all season, 8 wins since last December, failed to score in 7 out of our last 9… I fail to see how anyone on here can defend that shitshow of statistics. It's abysmal and, if you don't believe me, go in any pub around Goodison now and ask the natives because believe me none of them are happy.

If these new owners are true to their word about turning this great club around, they'd start by sacking this gobshite Dyche tonight. Unfortunately, I don't trust them to because, quite frankly, I wouldn't trust a yank as far as I could throw them.

Forest were not ‘poor' today in any position on the pitch. Like our hard-boiled eggs, they have a manager who sets up not to concede (and their defence is head and shoulders above ours: Branthwaite and Tarkowski were 2/10 today: we are lucky that we have Pickford).

The difference is that Forest can defend and they – unlike us – can transition in a flash to the front foot because they have speedy players, do not rely on long balls, can thread through passes that split defences and can actually cross a fecking ball into the box, where a natural goalscorer is waiting to pop it in the back of the net.

Here are the really big differences: Forest win games, score goals and are 20 points ahead of us. Nuno's set-up was spot on today and I was jealous – yes jealous – of some of their forward pace and interchanging.

How many of these players would we take next month with our outstretched famished Oliver hand: Milenkovic, Murillo, Williams, Aina, Morato, Elanga, Gibbs-White, Hudson-Odoi, Anderson, Silva, Sasa, Wood?

Milenkovic, Murillo, Williams, Aina, Elanga, Gibbs-White, Sosa, and Wood are all better right now than their Everton equivalents.

We have the three hard-boiled eggs and Thelwell (who, if he does his job properly, is responsible for the players available to said eggs).

Credit where credit is due: Dyche made his best substitutions of the season so far today, dumping Harrison and bringing on Patterson and Calvert-Lewin (although taking off Gana surprised me).

We had some rest in the Kendall era but it was all too short-lived. Learned to adapt and find new friends who are not red noses — or I just stopped listening.

Correct me if I'm wrong: he's still our player isn't he?

Listen to the first caller on 606 today, one of us, who not only treated Savage and Sutton to a lesson on Dyche but singled out for praise Forest's first goal.

I agree, That was no fluke.

Of course we would welcome better players, but pace, purpose, organisation should be a given at this level.

This is on Dyche and his staarrrff.

There is no time to give a foreign manager who is needing to learn the Premier League demands so it has to be Moyes short term.

Otherwise it's the Championship fare at that shiny new stadium!

Obviously a good finish at the end, but those headers were just dead lucky.

I think that it is time for change, as new owners.

Does 'staarrrff' include Thelwell?

Are we still playing his wages?

The day just gets worse. I'm off to bed 😎

I've looked at it again, Kevin – three times in the last minute – and those headers were meant, mate. I wish it was a fluke because that might have made our defence look a little worse than the worse they were.

Little shit bag, for what it's worth.

And if by some chance he did sign one, it would have clauses about the option of taking over full-time if he does a better job than Dyche. That is dangerous.

The sad thing for me with Dyche is that, at some point, my opinions morphed from professional to personal: ie, I can't bear the fella, can't bear his voice, can't bear looking at him and Woaney (does he honestly think that those glasses make him look intelligent?) and Stoney on the sideline.

I also, sadly, came to feel the same way about dour and dreary Dave.

He might want to spend his dirty money on another company.

Paul @194; Spot on about Moyes.

Mike Gaynes @ 183; spot on, Improvisation.

Taxi immediately.

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't mind being confused, as it means I have to do some actual critical thinking?

I think you've made some very valid points.

I'd still defend the players to a degree, other than why can't they manage to pass and control a football, when each and everyone of them are part of that 0.0012% of amateur footballers who reach the fully professional ranks?

Is that confidence, is it fitness, is it where they're played? I don't know, at best I was a pretty average goalkeeper for the school and weekend teams.

You'd like to think though that players should be able to use both feet to pass and control a ball effectively. See the Bobby Charlton story.

Also, a player should be able to play in any position; see the Ajax Total Football and Rinus Michels (then latterly Cruyff, then Pep – though somewhat distilled) school of football.

Fitness-wise, train for fitness-specifity, the fitter you are, the more able you are to 'compute' options and have 'spare capacity' to think. Rather than just thrashing the players with gaffer days! Don't we use personalised training for each player? I'm sure Tony A could tell me what that is known in football.

Moving onto Nuno Espirito Santo, I just think his personality doesn't suit egos, which is how he failed at the three clubs you mentioned; whereas at clubs with lower expectations (too a degree) ie, Wolves and Forest, where there are few, if any, big egos, he copes quite well.

Also, I believe that he was influenced by Mourinho in his Porto days, whereby Mourinho played a defensive quick counter-attacking side, Nuno seems to have tried to refine it, to suit his level of non-superstar teams.

You really do have to give Nuno credit for getting a very good level of performance from his current side. Though, today I thought that Forest weren't at their best.

You posted this, and I agree:

You like me and many others want a pacey wide man but who could we sign. Who is going to be productive when their first job is to counter the left winger which virtually makes Ashley Young defunct? Sod the defensive duties, drop the back four and go to a back three, then use the back three and midfield to defend.

Then he must have Premier League experience and must follow Dyche's letter to the law. This is a limitation of Dyche, which has been recognised since his days at Burnley – not playing Vydra, and converting a back into a forward instead, Cornet!

Mangala took 3 months to be a regular despite being Forest's best player last season. Obviously not Dyche fit Conor, and at that time he was obsessed with his usual suspects, Garner, Gueye, Doucoure, and the Tim Iro experiment.

Ndiaye had experience in the championship yet had to outshine everyone to get his place. I'm going to beg to differ here, NDiaye seems to be a lot like McNeil to me, flatters to deceive on too many occasions and sometimes his frustration is highly visible. Still one of our better players though.

O'Brien hasn't had a kick despite an injury crisis early on. Only down to crass stupidity as far as I'm concerned. Even if bought as a backup in case we lost Branners, surely he needs to play in other than small minutes in the first few games...?

Lindstrom still can't get in front of Harrison. Again, plain and simple favouritism, and I don't believe that Jesper is a Dyche player, he is a Thelwell loanee, pretty much like Danjuma last season

As I've been banging my head against a wall for ages, I think we have the makings of a decent team currently. It as as you state, the players are not used to any level of a balanced efficiency.

We don't have the strength to play a back four, so go to a back three. Push Patterson or Young up to RWB, with Harrison or Young up to LWB, play two of Gueye, Mangala, Tim Iroegbunam or Jimmy Garner in the middle, with Ndiaye, Lindstrøm or McNeil as a pair of IR/IL, with a striker in front of them. Doesn't matter who, pick from form.

I think that this would work, as we do have the players to pass and control the ball, they need confidence and the ability to recapture some enthusiasm for playing the game again.

Not Dyche's vision of playing football, but with a decent defence, setting a platform (not the be-all and end-all) to launch attacks from, hence why I want a speedy, technical two-footed RFW, or even the same at LWB.

We have seen we can do this with that 23-pass move and goal we scored against Newcastle last season, and the first goal we scored against Chelsea (iirc?)

This is what confuses me, we have a decent (not great, but decent) set of players, with weak links at full-back, so change the formation, and we need a genuine right-side player...

What are your thoughts on that, Conor?

I know it's dead easy to call out Dyche and his staff, and it's easy to lay into individual players, but I think it is a combination of those factors, plus good days bad days for both sides on the day, luck, confidence, belief and attitude!

All of it (bar the luck) needs work, so that we get more good days than bad days.

I remember lines of the grizzlies queuing up outside the Park End and one especially hideous one, fat face, beard, big red and white scarf round neck, spitting at us.

I've also heard that Dyche apparently refused a few potential signings last summer due to them not having Premier League experience.

And for the only job that matters – staying up – he'll do me!

We need some quality and pace in the team come January, we can't afford to let anyone leave given the size of the squad.

Thought the Forrest fans where pretty average today, usual anti Scouse poverty chants are pretty boring.

Derek (Taylor), can't fault your logic there but I cannot be an impartial judge on Moyes mate. I actually think that we will not go down under Dyche. And although not exact in all its points, Moyes for Dyche would be too much like one of Dyche's like-for-like subs for me.

Rob, they got a 'sign on' followed by 'feed the scousers' in early doors very handily. Knobheads.

The Mykolenko disaster needs sorting asap. We cling onto average players like heroes because they had a purple patch or were just a bit better than the rubbish next to them. Our standards are low and the club continues to operate below them.

It’s all so dysfunctional at the moment, TFG needs to make some strong, important decisions. I’m worried this could be the season from hell where we finally drop and Liverpool get to parade multiple trophies past our new stadium.

And you have also unleashed the stomach-splitting comedy of the dead witty Boardmans who just saw XXXXX at John Lennon and XXXXXXX on Castle Street and XXXXX at The Titanic.

I think they will stick with Dyche till the end of the season making Premiership Survival a priority and expect little to happen in the January window, other than surprising us by moving on some players.But having said that the speed that they sorted the Club's Finance mire out was unbelieveable.The Friedkin Group definitely has a plan that is for sure.

If Everton appoint Moyes as Manager you will never hear from me again.

Really in this game is was the usual culprits reverting to type.

I remember being in a pub in Liverpool and someone came in collecting for the Nottingham miners, (Cotgrave) who eventually got shafted, the stupid selfish bastards.

Do us a favour please mate, fuck off. I don’t mind throwing in some money for anyone that needs it, but not for those dirty scabbing bastards.

Taking Harrison off, was a decision that had to be done, but putting Lindstrom, on the wing totally negated this. I have to agree with Paul Ferry, and his feather assessment of Lindstrom, and can’t believe that people who have been involved in football, for as long as our management trio have, would consider playing Lindstrom out wide?

I was involved in football for only a little while, but body language is everything and it’s clear looking at Lindstrom, that his body language is screaming, I fucking hate playing on the wing.

All-in-all, a soul-destroying football club that has been ran by soul-destroying board members for eons.

Oh and by the way, don't think these Friedkins will wave a magic wand; they won't. They'll keep this snotty-nosed twat until the end of the season and by then, I honestly believe it will be too late. We don't score; hence we don't win.

I go the game these days expecting us not to score, now that is really soul-destroying.

It reminded me of what Walter Smith told me when we had just signed Kevin Campbell on loan. We have got to do something, he said, but unfortunately for Thelwell, his doing something wasn’t helped by Everton, becoming so desperate and skint.

I don't believe TFG would let it either, my guess is they will provide some funds for the January Window, and if results don't improve, or the tactics stay the same, Dyche will be history before it's too late.

It's his unfathomable persistence in playing the same players who have either drawn or lost, and suddenly expecting a win. Add to that his playing of favourites Doucoure and Harrison who wouldn't get near any other side, that is letting us down. Plus his stubbornness in reluctance to alter things a bit, making it too easy for oppositions to figure us out. Not to mention, virtually starting with 9 players.

He is on very thin ice, and the next couple of weeks will alert the Friedkins to execute his dismissal. One positive today, was the much maligned Patterson being given a sub's appearance. I would stick with him and switch Young to left back. Mykolenko has been generally poor most of the season.

“ so Sean you have a home game after 2 decent draws against title contenders,

What do you do ?”

Dyche, Err not much really, same basic eleven, same set up, same tactics.

“ You go 1-0 down in this game, what do you do to change it up?to alter the outcome?”

Dyche, Err not much really, like for like subs, err maybe 2 up top, but that hasn’t worked before, not sure to be honest.

“You go 2-0 down in this game, what do you do? “

Dyche, No clue, blame the players?

Tony (A). I did the picket lines at her showpiece mine at Selby when I was at York Uni. I actually noticed today that I did not hear 'scabs' on the box at any rate.

I think of the UDM as I think of Vichy Tony. King of the scabs Roy Marshal Petain Lynk who got his OBE, of course. The UDM was only closed down two years ago.

And Tony, don't forget, there were thousands of Leicestershire miners who refused to go on strike.

Tony, didn't Lindstrom say before or when he joined us that the manager roller-coaster and being played out wide out of position ruiined his time in South France?

Starting with Harrison and Doucoure is criminal - Harrison must have a massive spread bet on how often he can lose the ball, Doucoure advances with zero fluidity, if there’s space in front of him, he literally has an oh shit moment, stutters forward and doesn’t really know what he’s doing

Others were poor today - Tarkowski just hoofed it, Branthwaite looked pissed off being in such a shit team, Mykolenko over hits every cross. Only Ndiaye and Mangala looked like they wanted the ball and Broja ….

The players looked lost - who’s taking a corner… 2 centre forwards asking each other what are we supposed to do

Terrible really ….

Apologies if this is a boring repetitive post …

I’d get shot of Dyche but doubt we have a plan B ….

I will watch the highlights tomorrow, and will be very surprised if Gueye was partly responsible for that mess.

A few Scab shouts came out after the first feed the Scousers, then they sang 2-0 to the scabs at the end of the game.

Dave 216,

What you are describing is a time traveller. Dyche can be accused of many things but not having the ability to see into the future is stretching things a bit.

The pack needs to be shuffled, Doucoure needs to be moved out of the middle and replaced with either Ndiaye or Lindstrom. Maybe it's time to give Patterson a run at right mid or even Harrison at left mid. How on earth we haven't got a half decent reserve left back is beyond me.
If possible I would move for walker peters in Jan.

DK #214, I think your scenario is the most likely... that Dyche will be presented with 2-3 players in the January window and given a chance to immediately improve results. Assuming he cannot, his replacement (permanent, no interim) would have the final 15-16 games to ensure we stay up, and then will have a running start for next season.

Simon #196, couple disagreements with you there. I don't think Tim was an "experiment" -- I think he genuinely won the job and would have kept it to this day if not injured. And I don't think Ndiaye flatters to deceive. He's a really good player.

I met quite a few very good people in Nottingham, but I could never take to the city, because the people felt so different from what I had been used to when I was growing up.

I wasn’t aware of the Leicestershire scabs, but I always put the blame on the entire working class workforce right across the country, although I was only about fourteen at the time.

Thatcher wasn’t going to let history repeat itself and I genuinely believe that the real reason she hated our city, was because nobody backed the striking miners, more than scousers. I might be wrong.

I didn’t know Lindstrom, had said that Paul, but after watching him against Southampton in the league cup game, it was clear to me that he had no real aptitude for playing out wide.

I remember playing for Martin O’Neill, for a little while and in one game I got the ball wide with thirty metres of space in front of me to attack. I ran five yards and tried to pass it. The pass got intercepted but came back to me, and under pressure I beat a tackle and came inside. My little bit of skill had suddenly took me into the area of the pitch I had always loved and suddenly I’ve gone passed another player and then created a chance.

Tony, what’s the fuckin difference? why will you run with the ball all day through the middle, but never down the wing, Martin screamed at me. I never answered but it was because of my lack of pace. Put me in the middle and I could go past players like they weren’t there, but put me out wide and I didn’t have the same belief. I see exactly the same problem, when I look at Lindstom’s, body language, unfortunately.

Yet again there was no shortage of effort. There was an obvious lack of quality and of course pace in most positions.

As for Forest they spent a huge amount of money to recruit talented players after their promotion two and a half years ago. That was why they ran into PSR difficulties but it is also why under an astute manager they are now more than holding their own in the upper reaches of the table.

Unless or until we recruit talented players able to offer the pace and quality required in the top half of the Premier League we will continue to struggle whoever the manager is. Indeed the recruitment of a manager insistent on an expansive style of play without the players to suit it will more than likely make things worse.

I said back in October we should twist regarding Dyche – he is sucking the life out our club, how many games have we won this calendar year… 8 or 9?

It just can't go on – we deserve better than jumping for joy when we get a draw at a so-called Top 6 club.

I just checked and Lindstrom (sorry, it was Napoli, of course, not South France) did say that about both the quick succession of Napoli managers and that his own preferred position was inside where he often played at Frankfurt.

25 goals/114 games at Brondby and Frankfurt and 0/35 at Napoli and with us says it all.

If so could we get them to track the scouts working for Brighton, Forest, Wolves, Fulham and see who they are looking at?

Or we could just continue to recruit injury prone players who had once, years before, been good?

I believe everything starts from having a sound defensive platform but I just don't see enough people looking to play with each other.

The other day before Man City scored, I was embarrassed by how few Everton players wanted the ball, and it's clear that there is very little offensive play being worked on. Are we really that bad?

On top of that, they are led by, most probably, the most sub-standard, mediocre, tactically inept, incredibly cowardly, extremely negative, moronic manager in the Premier League.

Dyche Out!!!

That's Tony A now in the Yank-roll-of-shame along with Big Rob. I'm keeping a record!

I never went today and my lad took a friend of his (who is not an Everton fan). After the match, he said 'I feel so bad for you having to watch that'. And he wasn't even taking the piss.

I thought Ndiaye and Mangala did alright. Gueye was on a yellow but I still would have taken off Doucoure instead of him.

Most of our attempted crosses were shit but our non-shooting but brilliant header of the ball centre forward had 2 on his head and surprised probably no-one with powder puff efforts. At least Beto forced a save with his mediocre header.

Moyes is just as negative as Dyche, I can't believe anyone thinks he'd be better. His whole raison d'etre is to kill football matches.

I thought Forest's first goal was excellent.

Don't beat about the bush mate, tell us what you really think of Dyche! :-)

I could fill pages of expletives when referring to the Dycheosaur but it's late, and like Jack Harrison, he's not worth it.

We've had some poor managers, but I haven't detested them, or even close really.

I can't bear to look at Dyche or hear his horrendous gravel-like voice as he's throwing the players under the bus again.

Is this the way we want our club managed? Unless Dyche puts 11 players behind the ball,l he has not got a clue how to win a game.

Forest were bang average but his tactics were abysmal and we gave them their easiest 90 minutes of the season.

I'll never be able to ever eat another digestive ever again.

Totally disagree. He's been very good in many of our recent games, snuffing out fires and reading the game. Far from being a headless chicken, he's one of the few players who looks composed when we are trying to see a result out.

I don't know what you're watching. He does have a mistake in him, yes, but your description of him is way off, and all the more baffling given the disastrous performances around him.

He's not brilliant, but who is? Pickford maybe. Ndiaye sometimes. Branthwaite previously. The list of shitter players is far longer.

Now here's the rub, who will decide, what players if any, may come in? Being the Devil's Advocate here, but assuming we get no-one in, I still believe a savvy manager could get a better tune out of what we already have. Remember we have some decent players still out Tim Iroegbunam, James Garner to name but two.

He did talk about the usual endless task of trying to find ways to be effective in attack. Which I continue to find strange given I see no change in emphasis in that area, just the occasional shirt change around the ever present figure of Doucoure.

He then had the nerve to claim bringing in "more of an attacking full-back" Patterson as being one of those attempts. I call BS - Patterson only plays when he's out of every possible option. He's frozen out of the team precisely because he's a "more attacking full-back".

Hey Sean, I'll give you a tip on how to improve our attacking output. Don't play an attacking midfielder/number 10 who is primarily a defensive player with two left feet. In that position, he's involved in some way in every move – and that's a problem for us.

But of course you might lose some of his chasing back... Which tells you everything about our attacking emphasis. We pick a player at Number 10 who can be relied on to defend.

In my view, we will stay up regardless. There are teams below us who have lesser teams and will continue to ship goals. Dyche's mind-numbing style isn't necessary to stay above these sides.

Which means what exactly? You don’t really expect him to be constantly the last line of defence / the only midfielder allowed to pass to a defender?

Madness to blame Gueye for the Doucoure / Mykolenko ‘Keystone Cops’ routine.

Key first, is not playing Doucoure and Harrison and not playing players out of position, coupled with a strategy!

Could it possibly be any worse than starting with Harrison Doucoure and Mykolenko?

I've advocated for hanging on until the end of the season when better managers may be available, and more time is available, but we cannot win matches or score goals at home, and so it seems the second half of the season will be spent hovering dangerously close to the bottom three, or in it.

It's a shit-show. One worry is we'll make another bad managerial appointment. My other worry is that Dyche will take us down.

Really disappointed with today. Goodison is going out with a whisper rather than a scream.

He wants the sack before the chance of a relegation so he can point to two survival years in ‘difficult circumstances'. He's getting paid the same anyway, he's checked out.

As usual Dyche selected two individuals who have been consistently dreadful this season.

Harrison was dire last season and I can only assume that it was Dyche rather than Thelwell who was stupid enough to sign him for another season during which he has been even worse. Leeds can't afford his wages so there appears to be no chance of returning him back there.

Doucouré is reputedly our highest paid playe. He could have been moved to the Saudi League last summer and nobody but Dyche would have missed him. He should be top of the list for offloading, not DCL.

Unfortunately a mention must be made of Mykolenko whose abject decline could have been solved weeks ago by switching Young to LB and playing Paterson at RB.

Finally Broja was no more effective than the much maligned DCL in the hapless task of scoring goals with Dycheball.

Defeat at Bournemouth will surely be the end of Dyche, four months before his inevitable demise, but I would be very alarmed if Thelwell went as well.

Maybe a change of forwards, Beto or Calvert-Lewin gone with at least one alternative coming in; to do this... we need a change of manager!

"The reason both attack and defence can't be improved simultaneously is because our apparent improvement defensively isn't really down to an improved defence. It is simply sending the entire 11 out as a defensive unit that sometimes makes you difficult to beat."

Spot on, and it nails the real problem that any attacking creativity in midfield has been sacrificed for workmates and defensive effort.

Couple that with two full-back who rarely cross the half-way line and cannot cross, you have an ultra defensive team who cannot create chances for any striker!

People have slated Dom, Beto and now it will be Broja's turn. Effort is not enough.

Actually, DK, we should probably include McNeil in our list.

We painfully need someone with clout in the club to do root and branch reform from top to bottom (and that, regardless of record, should include the three hard-boiled eggs and Thelwell) and somewhere, someone, somehow we have to be however gradually put back in a position to buy thoughtfully in all respects to rebuild the squad.

If each one sticks with us, there are not that many who could not be let go: Pickford, Branthwaite, I would hold onto Patterson, Mangala, Garner, Iroegbunam, Ndiaye (Chermiti perhaps?).

That's seven maybe eight for me. I can't believe that I just wrote it but I am only speaking of current squad members and there will be posters who would disagree with me about Patterson.

I know we basically sing (poorly :-) from the same song sheet, and it is blatantly obvious to most that playing Doucoure and Harrison does not, and never will work, yet they are are almost shoo-ins if breathing and some sign of a pulse. This can also indicate 'living, but brain dead' — a bit like the manager!

For me, there would be trouble in stopping learning.

He needs dropping, but we've said that for weeks. Dyche knows better… and he's on £190,000 a week!

I'm on far less than that, but I can see it… Why can't Dyche?

Is this some sort of charity? He is our worst player by a mile… we don't have a young left-back in the under-21s or something?

They would 100% be better than this load of shite – he is maybe a League One player.

How on earth or the feck or the fuck can anyone say that Idrissa was to blame for the second goal, never mind the first, unless they had a perverse agenda, or unless they have pursued a sad vendetta against IG over the years, or unless they are 'a bit of a ToffeeWeb maggot'?

2 nil up at Villa, lose 2-3

Spanked 3 nil at home to Brighton, Spanked at Spurs 4 nil

Go out of the cup at home to Southampton when they had a near second string out

Lose away to Southampton

Spanked 4 nil at old Trafford by a bang average Utd team

Our highlight is beating Palace, Ipswich and Wolves

Grind out 3 draws v Arsenal, Chelsea and City and some are saying need to keep Dyche til the end of the season on the back of three draws.

I cannot remember a time when a season has been as bad of this for performances and tactics, some will throw Rafa, Big Sam into the mix, but this football is horrible to watch

Our final season at Goodison and we have to watch shite tactics, football big hoof and players guaranteed a start every week if they are fit.

Have we finally hit rock bottom, do we have to see out the season with this guy in charge.

When the curtain finally falls on the Old Lady, I want to remember at least a game or two where we played attacking football in our final season here.

The thought of Dyche remaining until the summer and the football and tactics he is going to serve up is worrying.

Pay the guy off and press reset going forward into 2025.

Calvert-Lewin is done. Thank you for all (how many?) those crucial or excellent goals. Good luck. Good bye.

I like Harrison. Hard worker, graft, breaks through occasionally. First name on my team sheet, if I managed a League One side. Should only be seen as fresh legs near the end of a game.

For a number of years, I have felt Doucouré was our technically best player. He isn't now. The under-hit pass and bobbled shot being his mudus operandi. On the bench with Harrison.

This solves nothing. We need some good players cheap. Andy Gray and Peter Reid come to mind. Thank God I've been alive long enough to have seen that miracle once.

But you might have a point. Reidy with Idrissa and Mangala might work but Andy wouldn't get the service he needs.

Doucoure is not much better and Mykolenko is having an awful season but the three of them are selected game after game.

One away win this calendar year and two home wins at the half way stage of the season plus a home cup defeat to Southampton must send a clear message to the Friedkins.

New man in time for the back-to-back home fixtures against Villa and Spurs. This clown cannot be allowed to continue any longer.

What's this 'comfortable 10 days', mate?

Scargill refused to ballot his own union members on the viability of a strike. He imposed his self-aggrandising agenda on his entire membership. He didn't trust the democracy of his very own union.

Following Scargill, the mining industry was thoroughly disembowelled by Thatcher and her successor. Whole towns were laid waste of employment and hope of it, for many years.

Scargill retired in comfort, whilst his loyal members largely suffered into old age.

Scargill was a cunt. His miners were (misguided but infatuated) gems of human beings though.

Go figure.

Oh, and on the game against the might of Nottingham Forest, just how do they, the only other "minor" team to be punished like we were last year, beat us without any real evidence of brilliance from them, second in the (very dodgy) league as they became?

What the hell goes on in Finch Farm when it comes to trying to score a goal from open play?

Ian #256, at the time Doucoure "could have been moved" to Saudi Arabia, a year ago, he was our leading scorer for the season with six goals, and we were in crisis having just been hammered with the first points penalty.

He was also our reigning survival hero, with five goals in the final 12 games of the previous season, capped by the volley that kept us up.

Hindsight sure is convenient, but 12 months ago he was an irreplaceable mainstay.

I was referring to since the TFG takeover being complete (approx 10 days) the festive period almost over, the first big decision should now be made in pulling the trigger on Dyche.

Is it because Forest have better players than us? Yes, but not enormously so. Many on here mocked the idea of Dyche bringing in the now prolific Chris Wood. Certainly they are helped by having some genuine pace with the likes of Elanga and Hudson-Odoi who help them counter effectively.

Is it confidence? Perhaps it is now but Forest were pretty dreadful last season and only just survived so can't have started the season full of the stuff.

Is it luck? Perhaps a tad. xG models suggest they are about 7 points better off than you might expect given the quality of their chances etc but then many on here don't believe in such things and 30 points would still be a very decent haul.

Difficult then to look beyond the manager who, unlike Dyche, has managed to find a balance between being defensively sounds and being able to create from set-piece and open play.

I've backed Dyche and think he did a very commendable job last season. But this season we continue to regress and look so woeful from open play that it's hard to see him seeing out the season unless he can turn things around very sharpish.

Bournemouth away will be tricky but you'd hope that he'd need a point at least to stay in the job.

Someone new pulling the strings - however nice that seems (I'm at the point now where I hate seeing the three clowns on our sidelines) - introduces an unknown risk-factor and as the saying goes, 'better the ... '

In fact, it might be better - did I really type that? - to leave major changes until the summer. We will not go down with Dyche. In this case, I believe, we do have some time on our side to make sure that we get things right. I don't trust Yank business cutthroats to get snap decisions right.

I doubt even that much of real note will happen in the January window. Something has to, surely, but it will be, I think, sensible experienced Prem. players. Meanwhile, Brighton have found another - take yer pick - Ecuadorian, Paraguayan, Bolivian, or Peruvian this weekend.

I smile when people on here tell me that the new owners have someone lined up already and we are given names. Let's see what happens. There are no guarantees with this new lot. Some people seem to assume that because they are bullish - i.e. cutthroats - corporate business men with a good record (but not at Roma, and I'm more interested in that) that they will be just what we need. Maybe they will be. Let's see what happens.

Furthermore, we're still a game shy of the halfway point of the season and clear of the relegation zone.

I understand that many here feel it's desperately urgent to sack Dyche right now, but I believe Dan Friedkin feels no such urgency.

You may have to put up with this manager for a while yet.

They're certainly not playing the champagne football that many think any Dyche critic must be demanding. Both goals came from fairly nothing, hopeful punts up to Wood. He got to one, he was beaten for the other... but they had a second player to either win or at least pressure the second ball. And had options with the confidence to make a run, even if it might leave a hole somewhere else.

Contrast that to us, generally. Long ball to Dom, who wins more than his fair share, second ball goes to the opponent by virtue of no-one in blue being in the same postcode. They've been conditioned into keeping shape. Gambling is risky and risky is bad.

If you watch the highlights of every game last night, the goals didn't generally come from amazing pieces of technical ability. More often they were defensive errors, rebounds, lucky bounces and deflections. Shit, even our players are good enough to get lucky. The problem is that they're not in the positions to get lucky. They're back in defence, hoping for the good fortune not to concede.

The defence of Dyche, to me, continues to amaze. We have always been defensively okay. Not great, but okay. Our problem was that our goals for was poor.

So we hired a man with a history of bolstering a defence. It didn't make sense then and the dial has continued to move towards defence. We've now abandoned attack almost entirely. The dial can't really move any further under Dyche.

To his credit, he achieves exactly what he should say he will try to achieve (he doesn't say it though). He works on defending and we concede a fairly low number of goals. Success! But it's not really the job of a manager to just make a team hard to beat. You're supposed to actually compete sometimes.

I agree with a fair share of that but certainly not this: “So we hired a man with a history of bolstering a defence. It didn't make sense then and the dial has continued to move towards defence.”

It absolutely made sense hiring Dyche. The defence had gone to pieces under Lampard and we were in serious danger of going under with nothing to invest in playing staff.

Dyche steadied the ship and built on that last season with a team that was very hard to score against and highly effective at set pieces. 12th with that squad was a small but significant overachievement.

This season, however, we are less effective at set pieces and open play. We've gone backwards. I think Dyche has served his purpose now. Time to look for a better future.

Attack-wise we were poor. Though of course we hadn't had a striker for a long portion of that season.

There was significant upside available in improving the attacking output and limited improvement available in improving our defensive performance. But we hired the guy who could go for the limited improvement option because that's all he knows. And our club hired him because they know even less.

Then there's the fact that this club has always rallied when things are desperate. We've pulled out results that were out of the ordinary to stay up. There is something special about this club when the chips are down. Sadly that special culture is not about being winners, but we're certainly good at avoiding that trap door.

Dyche fed into and benefitted from that siege mentality in the same way that Lampard did the year before. We didn't finish 12th. We finished where we finished after the impact of points deductions and the corresponding reaction.

Under Dyche we have gradually become more and more defensive. Kind of similar to how under Martinez we became more and more careless and possession based. For a while there might be a benefit to moving away from an extreme, but you can pass the point of any reasonable return before long.

I don't think we necessarily needed to become even worse to watch in order to stay up. I see unfashionable players doing effective things all the time. There's no reason for ours to become defensive robots with no inclination towards expressing the talents that got them to this level of football in the first place (Mykolenko aside - he was just a terribly misjudged signing).

Some on here giving Dyche credit for hooking Harrison at half-time but he should never even have started. Harrison must be the only winger in the Premier League who can't cross a ball or beat his man. The basic requirements of wing play.

Not sure why Gueye is being blamed for the 2nd goal. Doucoure doing Doucoure things. Underhitting a pass perfectly between 2 players and laying it on a plate for the Forest player.

Can Ndiaye cross the ball? He seems to come inside all the time. We definitely need a wide right player and 2 full-backs who can cross the ball.

ps: I bumped into a fellow Blue wearing an Everton training top in a sports store in Hastings, New Zealand today. Had a quick chat with him. I wonder if he's on here? Shout out if you are.

This time last season, he was just about the best defensive left-back in the league. Hardest to dribble past, one of the top at shutting down crosses, surprisingly successful in the air, blocked a shot every other game or so.

I have no idea what's happened to him this season... injury, loss of confidence, who knows. Not supposed to happen at 25.

But I think you can count on him being sold this summer, along with Maupay and maybe Patterson, guys who have failed to measure up. Thelwell is really good at that. Just ask Godfrey and Dobbin.

All told, between contract expirations and loans ending and a couple of needed selloffs, I'd expect us to lose 12-14 players, half our roster.

We will have more than a new manager at BMD. We'll have a new team. Of the 11 who started today, only 3 will still be around in August -- Pickford, Ndiaye and (hopefully) Branthwaite.

"This lot don't know how to score."

And he doesn't know how to help with that.

They need to appoint the right people to work for this football club, people who meet the standards of the club's motto or at least strive to do so. Everyone at this club for too long has been happy with status quo.

From Day 1 in August, we've had a manager talk the club into a relegation dogfight because that's all he's known throughout his managerial career, it's his comfort zone.

That mentality rubs off on the playing staff because in any company, the employees will only mirror what standard is set by those above them.

Just moving to a new stadium will not fix this mess, it will just be a shiny new environment in which our failing team loses games instead of century-plus old Goodison Park.

That's why I believe the Friedkins need to get to work straight away with deciding where we go from here. Are they happy to look at the league table in January and see us 3 points above 18th-place Leicester? Are they satisfied that 3 wins in 18 games is good enough?

If not, then don't wait until May to start the search for a new manager and a whole new upheaval of signing that manager's players.

Should be done ASAP.

If there's some funds to spend and or deals to be done, who decides the priorities and targets, Thelwell or Dyche?

Dyche's contract is up in June, does he get an extension – if no, then Thelwell picks the targets. If he stays, then God help us all. Hopefully Thelwell and the replacement are talking right now.

Unless we put Bournemouth to the sword, like Forest did to us – he should be gone. New guy gets a 'free hit' in the 3rd round while Thelwell does what deals he can.

I want us to build now and to do so with Dyche makes no sense. I am praying the new owners have someone lined up and there is dialogue between him and Thelwell already.

Sarri is an exciting option, he comes with risks too, especially given how low on confidence the team has been for so long; it's a lot to ask of them to embrace a completely new and technical way of playing.

Dyche stating that these players don't know how to score is pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me. I won't dig him out too much, he deserves a medal for previous seasons' work but we won't progress further under him. I would wish the gravel-voiced one well.

The vast majority of our squad are very poor footballers and lots of them are on a fortune. We all know there can't be a mass clear-out although it needs one. We have a team and a manager with very limited capabilities and, until that changes, we are in very real danger of going down this season.

So the next few games are massive, not just for the club, but Sean Dyche. Lose 2 of the next 3 of what are really tough games, then Dyche has to go, simple as that.

Survive this season and reset over the summer. We all know at least 5 or 6 players probably won't wear the Everton shirt again, though it should be a lot more.

Will TFG stick or twist? We will find out very shortly. But a change can't come soon enough. We have all had enough of horrible boring football that our club has served up over the last few seasons and it can't and must not be allowed to continue.

The long horrible wait goes on…

Tarkowski and Branthwaite seemed, with some lazy passes, to be off their games. Harrison was particularly poor but it was a bad performance all round.

IMO, the poorest performance on the day was that of the referee, who was extremely one-sided in favour of Forest.

Get over it and let's win the next game.

My hunch, and that's all it is, is that Dyche will see out the season because, as you say, he will keep us up.

Certain folks on here who think they know more than they do mention Sarri. I tend to roll my eyes and just wait to see what happens.

Dyche stating that these players don't know how to score is pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me.

What a gobshite Steve. A pitiful figure. A coward. Someone unable to accept responsibility. Who, sadly, might be around for five more months.

Dyche doesn't go out to win games. Dyche is all about damage control, keeping it tight, defensively solid etc. This means the players go out with a negative mindset. The plan is to grab a goal and defend it at all costs. Concede a goal and it's shit in your pants time.

This negativity is killing us. The long ball. The refusal to take risks inside/outside of the opponents box. The lack of crossing from wide areas etc… The players play with fear and dread by the looks of it.

We need a manager who will make them feel 10 feet tall, afraid of no one. Otherwise, the Championship awaits us. Time to be brave.

What I meant by us "building now" and thinking of Sarri is to get some decent bodies over the line that he identifies with Thelwell.

I agree, no way could this lot do what Sarri wants. 3-4 quality signings needed.

For me, that is an RB, RM (Fellows at WBA for me), a young and high potential CM (like Rigg at Sunderland who can be gently eased in a quality striker, even if on loan.

Agree also Paul on Dyche being a coward with his post-match comments.

By the way, if I was captain of this club and Maupay walks through the door for pre-season training, he would be ostracised for those comments, odious little shit.

Dyche has to go.

Our defensive record under Lampard was poor and going downhill. Under him, we conceded around 1.7 goals per game whereas under Dyche that dropped last season to around 1.3 with the 4th best defence in the league.

Dyche's job was to keep us up and he did that twice in a row, with enough on-field points to come 12th last season.

I agree with many of your criticisms of him and his obvious limitations but there's no doubt that he fulfilled the remit set by Moshiri (or whoever appointed him) and whether a more attacking coach could have done the same or better is pie in the sky (history suggests that defensive managers survived relegation more than expansive ones).

"However, Everton is a top team and Mr Friedkin is an ambitious man. He would like to offer a manager who can successfully bring us back to Europe competition. For the upcoming game against Forest, it's a perfect time to showcase you can also work on the attack side."

Dyche: "Forest is in hot form. Perhaps we should stick with what we've been good at for one more game?"

Watts: "Forest is not a big team. We cannot be too conservative. We need to be brave. Also, 2 things we would like to see:

"1) Give all the available strikers a chance to play. We would like to work out who to keep and sell;

"2) Try to play 2 strikers upfront at some point. It seems that the lone striker model always leaves the striker too isolated. We'd like to see how it changes the game."

I think Dan has seen enough of our strikers to make a call.

From the aftermath, it seems that we were well off and knackered after the previous games. And Forest are bang in form and can direct the ball towards the back of the net, rather than Row W.

It's worrying that we are unable to climb the table; lose at Bournemouth and it's really looking grim.

The position we are in with Dyche is a difficult one with half the season gone. Stick and maybe go to the last game again needing to win (imagine that?) or bring in a new man for a bounce (if there is anyone out there wanting to take it on).

TFG will decide in due course; I suppose we have to wait it out and keep gnashing our teeth. I'm fed up with Dyche not being brave enough to try to win, but I guess he's waiting for McNeil or Ndiaye to go on a prolific scoring spree. As Calvert-Lewin isn't exactly tearing up the grass, then it's time to move on, sad but true.

Hope Bournemouth have an off day… they love us, don't they?

Spouting on about how good the opposition is, does not hide the fact that Everton were poor and I would say that if performances and results don't change soon, then come January players may be moved on and others recruited or the manager may be changed.

Being 'organised' isn't just about being defensive. Players need to pass and move, know who links with who, know how a break builds.

We shipped goals early in the season. Was that really about tactics, or was that because our two best centre backs were injured/off form? Dyche responded by playing defensive midfielders and using wide players to double up as full backs rather than the other way around. Makes no difference when the defenders were as poor as they were yesterday.

Dyche has clearly given up on the attacking prowess of this squad. Either he lacks the ability to get more out of it, or the players don't listen to him.

Our survival depends on Tarkowski & Branthwaite staying fit and in form. Or, maybe, changes in the dugout?

Another nail biting relegation battle is almost certainly before us again.

The football is dreadful, we can't score goals he just has to go now.

Get a new guy in now, enough is enough.

In the distant past we were famous for being a class team playing great football. A team to be proud of, now we are without doubt the most boring team of all.

But looking at the Premier League table will show them we are very close to dropping into the Bottom 3 and could they risk leaving Dyche in position?

Everything points to changing the manager. Yes, I am sure they will have been pleased with the results against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City. And yes, Forest, who are in the top 4 and flying, was always going to be a tough ask.

But they will also be looking at the trends and we are 2nd lowest goal scorers in the Premier League. I think even one of our relegation rivals have scored more than twice the number of goals we have.

They will also look at Dyche from last season and, while surviving relegation despite points deductions, they will also look that he went 15 games without a win. We have won 3 games in 18 this season all against teams who were in the Bottom 3 when we played them.

The football in the main is dire, and yesterday we had to wait till Beto came on before we forced their keeper into a save. I think we had a lot more possession in and around their box than they had around ours yet created nothing.

They looked clinical and calm. Dyche said he thought their first was a good goal; I suggest he looks again and asks why Tarkowski was at least 4 yards in front of Wood when the ball was played up to him, leaving Branthwaite to deal with 2 strikers.

Their 2nd was an under-hit pass from Doucoure – surprise, surprise and both Mykolenko and Tarkowski stood like statues while Gibbs-White jumped in and played it to his partner who returned it for Gibbs-White to score.

Dyche said in the Echo the day before the gam,e he didn't think Harrison was far off what they want from him. I think that statement alone is a sacking offence. Even he realised the fans have just about had their fill of Harrison and correctly withdrew him at half-time.

I am sure there will still be some fans suggesting stick with Dyche, but I would ask can we or Friedkin take that risk?

The first two paragraphs of your post are spot on.

I caught something on TV yesterday but missed the start of the programme, about a manager who preached exactly that — get the basics right and carry on from there.

It could have been Brian Clough they were talking about, he used to talk about football being a very simple game: firstly, just pass the ball to a player in the same colour shirt as yourself.

Pass and move is another basic element. Everton players did neither yesterday but I didn't expect them to — they haven't done that for years now.

Yesterday, they didn't want the ball except for Mangala, Ndiaye and Branthwaite with two or three good runs. The others mostly couldn't accept responsibility of keeping hold of the ball and search for another player to pass to; Patterson did this when he came on and looked okay.

Maybe Everton being so poor made Forest look better than they were, as some have mentioned. I didn't think so myself: they did the simple things, worked hard all over the pitch, covered for each other and looked good on the break and attacked in numbers.

Their results tell me they have been doing that all season. They have been coached very well and having quite a bit of pace in the team helps them a lot. We have very little pace and we didn't have much fight yesterday.

We must be the only team anywhere in the world where the playmaker is a fuckin' goalkeeper: “Pirlo Pickford”!

What are you playing for? What's the point? That's not football. Combine, pass, play. That's football – for me, at least.

No overlap means that the wingers have no support and can't beat their man before putting in a decent cross. This means no supply for the strikers and no goals.

Basically, the team structure is wrong because we have no pace or dynamism; hence Dyche telling players to hoof long in the hope that a loose ball will fall to us.

We are missing two good young midfielders in Garner and Iroegbunam and Patterson surely has to be given a chance. Why spend so much on O'Brien and not play him?

The team needs full-backs and wingers – sort that and I think we will start to score goals.

You refer to Doucouré's form 12 months ago, which was before Dyche's 10-match Premier League winless run.

I stated that he should have been moved on last summer, by which time, his form had declined beyond redemption.

Young is anything but young and although he's actually been okay mostly this season, he's limited by being 39 and rarely gets forward effectively or without leaving himself vulnerable going back the other way (the majority of his yellow cards are for pulling players back or fouling them on the break running back towards his own goal).

Mykolenko is a useless attacking threat, and most often turns back, plays the ball across to a midfielder or more often, a centre-back.

We lack balance in an attacking sense, and our wide players have zero support going forward and thus our attacks are minimal and easily thwarted.

Our midfield is disjointed, and we leave a gap between defence and midfield which is often exploited by the opposition, and as a further knock-on effect, Calvert-Lewin ends up completely isolated and our only attacking threat really comes from Ndiaye beating a man and doing something out of the ordinary.

We're entirely reliant on him doing something for the most part. That and set pieces. We can't continue to rely on draws and other teams being shitter than us – the swirling plughole will catch up with us eventually.

We are all over the place when a team counters us. Midfield just haven't got a clue about keeping shape. That breakaway by Forest from our corner epitomises how poor we are.

The few half chances we had to get back into the game fell to Calvert-Lewin and Beto who didn't even trouble the keeper with piss-weak efforts. All round, it was a massive comedown after the 3 hard-earned draws.

If Dyche is in charge beyond the Bournemouth game, then it will mean we've beaten them. TFG can surely no longer run the risk with Dyche in charge though and they will hopefully have already sussed out his successor anyway, so get him in, please!

I think we're all sick of this crap being served up as football by a one-dimensional manager and pros who can't do the basics.

Southampton = 1 (Lost 5, drawn 1)
Ipswich = 3 (Lost 6, won 1 against Wolves)
Leicester = 4 (Lost 4, drawn 1, won 1)
Wolves = 7 (Lost 3, drawn 1, won 2)
Everton = 6 (Lost 2, drawn 3, won 1)

Dyche, and possibly the new owners, will look at that and think we don't lose as many as our rivals and that makes us good enough to stay up.

It's flirting with danger again, isn't it? But is changing the manager going to give us the shot in the arm we hope it will? Or is it a case of better the devil you know?

Personally, I highly doubt they'll remove Dyche this season.

But having players fail because you won't coach, confront, or correct them, is unacceptable.

Before then, we have:
Bournemouth (A)
Villa (H)
Spurs (H)
Brighton (A)

They have:
Villa (A)
Palace (H)
Fulham (H)
Spurs (A)

I'd say the gap will be less than the current 3 points by the time we meet them. We will then play a dour 0-0 for 75 mins where we have zero shots on target before a ball over the top to Vardy catches Tarkowski flat-footed with Mykolenko playing Vardy onside as he is half a yard behind the defensive line.

Change needs to happen before that game; otherwise, you can bookmark this post!

Why did Forest want it more than us? Lots of newish signings, strength from the bench and a new manager.

How they have averted PSR this season is beyond me. Another £100M spent despite being deducted points last season.

Look at us: we started the game with 3 loan players, 3 players and manager in the last 6 months of their contracts. From the bench, we had 2 more out of contract and another loan player.

Dyche has a difficult job trying to motivate the players, effort should be the least of his worries. Bringing in new hungry players should be the priority.

Leicester went down a couple of years ago in similar circumstances, lots out of contract and no fight to stay up. We have to hope yet again there are 3 worse teams.

Does anyone know if we can actually spend money in January?

That's a gutsy call, Of the 11 who started today, only 3 will still be around in August -- Pickford, Ndiaye and (hopefully) Branthwaite

I am not sure of the timing by when you think this will have happened. Maybe because I live in Australia and you mention summer. Even then, UK next summertime would mean it's a big ask.

Shelving, say, 90% of a squad and building a winning team in one season will be difficult but in no way impossible. Taking over management of new teams, I have found, takes a minimum of 3 years. (But worth it!!!)

Normally, I'll try and find some positives, even in defeat. But nothing, absolutely nothing.

I had to settle for watching on TV, so didn't get the full picture, but it looked awful. No shape, no ideas. Forest defended well although, with those deep looking crosses, we hardly made it difficult for them and when they broke, they did so with intent.

I think for the opening goal, the ball went over Brantwaite's head twice. Tarkowski seems all over the place, and as for Mykolenko, despite what I thought was a promising start at the club, he has gone downhill rapidly and has become a liability.

It just looked dreadful. The team had no ideas. The manager had no ideas.

I don't always like saying it, but I think we need to change it. Over to the board and Owner.

I know it's not easy but we will get through this and it will start with some positive actions from January onwards!

I hope that 2025 will be a good one for you, I can't imagine how difficult 2024 must have been for you and your family.

Back to the football, what worries most about our situation is that, if we opened things up a bit more, would we get less points than we are currently getting?

Are we getting so many clean sheets because we have an excellent defence or is it because of the protection they are being provided with by the rest of the team?

We are ahead of the three promoted teams going into January after a tough run of games; we should be okay but looking up rather than down. I am not sure there any teams that I would expect us to catch in the second half of the season.

We may finish in the same spot as we find ourselves in today and, if someone offered me that, I would take it.

I think that our new owners will not pull the plug on the manager but he will not be offered a new contract in the summer. We are in our own little league of say 6 or 7 teams and, as long we finish outside the Bottom 3, that will do for now.

Revolution or evolution in the summer? I would think Revolution!

Sorry to digress but everthing else has been said
above many times over. Certainly Dyche out… and those
wanting Moyes back — please go for a brain scan.

And then he's digging the players out post-match: " We played ineffective, nothing football, completely the opposite of what the game plan was".

I'd love to see that fag packet this supposed game plan was written on, probably something along the lines of "Give it to Picks or Tarks and let them larrup the ball into the corners."

That's a great post buddy. That's the system that I have wanted all along though it requires the wide midfielders to have a lot of energy to get up and down so it would be McNeill and Patterson for me.

However I don't think it's highly problematic to evolve. If Sarri for example was a reality I think he would play his 4-3-3 system. My guess he would demand 2 players until the summer. A Jorginho type quarterback maybe Angel Gomes (soon out of contract) and a left back. Under his system the full backs provide the width and his wide players often play like inside forwards, getting beyond the striker which both Ndiaye and Lindsrom are crying out for. Patterson would suit his style. He may also have a positive opinion of Harrison who was a highly coveted player when he managed Chelsea after tearing it up in the championship and Sarri has parallels with Bielsa..

Colin G

Thanks for the digestive anecdote.. nearly choked myself laughing.

I totally understand why you feel that way. His pressers infuriate me. Over the last few weeks because of Jordans heroics he was asked for sound bites. In typical Dyche fashion he wants credit for the defensive clean sheets and said it was the team unit. After the penalty save he wanted to put it down to the analysts. If I was Jordan I would have been livid for virtually single handedly keeping this guy in a job this season. Not even feint praise like he's been the best keeper around this campaign. Then yesterday he said that the players didn't follow his instructions first half and ignored what he worked on. All their fault. Then after dropping Dominic he was ejaculating over Chris Wood and I thought you snide fucker just like he did when Onana was flourishing under Emery.

Yesterday when beginning the 2nd half their players were doing little five yard sprints from the half way line led by Wood while our players a goal down were ambling out of the tunnel laughing and joking like they were coming out of a pub. The difference in professionalism was striking to me and the difference in culture led by the manager was summed up right there.

Ernie

That's a brilliant point about how Sean flourished when under siege when he superbly used that to his advantage. This season with no external or internal mayhem his tactical acumen has been laid bare. I couldn't agree more with you.

When Ndaye started playing through the middle, he sighed into the microphone, "Yeah, he's playing better because he's more involved now. That's where he should play."

When Dyche went two up front, he offered, "Everton look a bit better and are posing more of a threat now, but why wait until you're two-nil down to play the line-up you probably should have started with?"

He described Patterson as 'an excellent player who sometimes makes mistakes because he takes chances'.

If you listened between the lines, it was obvious he was furious with our tactics.

The reality is far more simple: we are a very, very poor side run by a very poor coaching staff with a very weak and underperforming management structure from top to bottom (new ground apart).

We are a total basket case. Improvement will be a very hard slog and the improvement process hasn't even started yet.

We may be relegated this season based on current performance and current performance isn't going to change while we have the current management and coaching team in place. It is truly painful to watch and far beneath what our fans deserve.

Am I negative? At the moment, I couldn't feel any more so. We invest massively in emotion, and many in hard cash terms, and we are short-changed in every aspect.

I can't do Dyche anymore, period. He needed to move on this season and solidify the progress of last season, but he hasn't and if anything it's even worse.

Forest played and fought as a team; Everton had no idea. Getting hard-fought draws is admirable as long as they are supplemented by wins against lesser teams; otherwise, you're bouncing just above relegation.

As it stands, it can't be allowed to carry on, a few better players and a better manager are needed now. The end of the season might be too late.

I'm as frustrated as anyone after yesterday's game but if Dyche can see us through safe to the end of the season (and that's a big 'but' I know) I would leave any changes until then. Essentially it gives the Friedkins some time to make a decent management appointment and have a closer look at the omnishambles that is Everton FC.

They haven't even appointed their own CEO yet, have they?

All signs so far suggest they are going to wait this out with the rest of us. It's a grim sounding prospect I know.

But I'm not really so gutsy -- except for Mykolenko, the remaining starters yesterday are either loaners or out of contract in June. The new manager will want new players who fit his style, and I'd expect most of them to be in place by the start of the season.

And, of course, I'm assuming the presence of our current injury absentees, namely McNeil, Garner and Iroegbunam.

Everton are a unique challenge for any manager. A bit Man Utd-like, dysfunctional, years of rot, still a big club with expectant fans and a number of overpaid and underperforming players.

We need a big character and an internal revolution in culture to get the club going forward again. Appointing the latest Johnny-on-the-spot, someone like Graham Potter, just doesn't fit the bill. That's what Moshiri got badly wrong.

And they do have a track record at Roma of hiring big characters -- Mou, De Rossi and now Ranieri. Don't worry, we'll have somebody colorful in charge for our BMD debut.

There's still time to hope we can dig our way out of this mess, but don't ask me to provide a quick solution as I can't think of anything, apart from bringing a new manager and coaching staff into the dressing room.

That might be a gamble too far for some, but if a team doesn't listen to its manager's instructions and does the exact opposite of what he requests, then his position is surely untenable.

Asked whether he was disappointed by the ease with which Forest enacted their gameplan, he said: “I was disappointed, simply, because in the first half our players did the opposite of what we told them, which is very frustrating as a manager, trust me.

"I have told them that because we analysed it, we looked at the things we wanted to do, and didn't offer anything that we expected us to deliver and could have done without a poor goal from us defensively, which is unusual lately, and they did the basics better than us in the first half.

"In the second half we asked a few more questions, we didn't really open them up, but by then were 2-0 down after a soft goal.”

Dyche said he had hoped to see his side play quickly and with tempo but added: “We didn't, we went completely the opposite and played slowly, rolled at the back – pointlessly at times. And then it was too method-bound, there weren't enough questions.” Source: Liverpool Echo.

Prior to that, our defensive record was the 6th best in the Premier League at less than 1.2 goals a game. We had even just gone to City and taken a hard-earned point.

So yes, things were getting worse… but I'll continue to argue that the defence wasn't the key to Lampard's downfall, it was goals scored (or lack of them).

Patterson showed in his short appearance, what a full-back with pace can offer going forward. Dyche has to drop Harrison and Doucoure, they offer us nothing, how many times did Harrison lose possession in the last two games?

We definitely miss McNeil, and the pace of Garner and Iroegbunam, but Dyche would probably play Garner at fullback and leave Tim on the bench, where he ended up, even though he looked really good earlier in the season.

If he plays the same formation and tactics against Bournemouth, he should be fired.

Mike I don't doubt that for one moment, but which League will we be in?

I think something has to happen, sooner rather than later, before it's too late. Just because Dyche has somehow steered us clear twice, doesn't guarantee it will happen again. All the signs, and more importantly, the results, are dictating otherwise.

Let's take Jimmy Garner for an example. The Forest fans still love him.

Was a fit Jimmy Garner in the team? No, he got overlooked because Dyche wants headless chickens, with no passing ability.Hard yards get you on the team sheet next game, I really think that's the case with this dictator of a manager.

As others have said, I can't stand listening to his verbal shit anymore.

Can I ask how you know Jimmy Garner was fit for the game yesterday?

Watching this game over again there is only 1 verdict and that is it was as bad as the majority of comments on here say.

There has to be a change sometime and it will have to be the manager, who over his career has not evolved with his philosophy on how the game should be played and insists on playing the same style of making it more difficult for the opposition to score with the hopes that his team manage to get a goal that they can hang on to.

The only problem with a new manager is he has the same squad to work with and with the new regulations the understanding that he will have limited funds to use for new players that will limit the type of player he can afford.

The big question I suppose is, can a new manager get more from the present squad than the present manager ,with the answer being, well he could not do any worse.

Dyche is in his element fighting relegation and will not change, so do not expect anything different

We need a more modern thinker that can adapt to the modern game and at least make them more competitive and entertaining, as that is why you have supporters.

Over to you the Friedman Group, its your club, your final product the premier league team, stinks and needs drastic action.

That's it for me, I've given him the benefit of the doubt up till now but he's finished. Jesus, it's like Adolf in his bunker as the Ivan's approached.

I think Dyche has coached the life out of the fans as well as the players; expectation is low and most are sick to death of constantly watching Premier League players hoof the ball 40 yards to an isolated striker.

I wonder do they spend all week at Finch Farm practising this move? We never seem to have more than 2 players in the opponent's box unless we are losing with 10 minutes left.

Dyche has nullified our supporters so much that we don't get angry anymore not winning at home as it's become the norm and hanging on for dear life away is our other tactic.

Some worry would changing the manager make us worse? Well, it's a possibility, but I have seen other teams in the Premier League change managers, and some I have never heard of, possibly my ignorance.

But did anyone think De Zerbi would be a success, or Hurzler or Iarola? So maybe we shouldn't be so frightened, and maybe Friedkin can pick someone who likes to play an attacking style that could get Goodison excited again.

A few weeks back, I thought we're okay because there are 3 worse teams that will finish below us… but now I'm not so sure. We're 3 points off the drop, and don't talk about a game in hand because that's against Liverpool.

Look at our January home fixtures: Villa and Spurs, another couple of perfect Dyche games because he'll be thinking of nil-nils, 2 points, job done.

He'll be thinking the same for Bournemouth and Brighton away, so let's live the dream and believe he pulls that off. That's 4 more points, whopdee-fuckin-do.

"Jesus, it's like Adolf in his bunker as the Ivan's approached "

You learn things on TW, that you never knew before, I didn't know he even played golf! :-)

I never wanted Dyche in the first place. Burnley were awful to watch, and I'm not sure why anyone expected anything different.

It's hard being an Evertonian, as I'm sick of us being a laughing stock. I don't know how we will win another match with this fraud. Guess we'll have to ride it out again as Liverpool win yet another league title, and possibly more.

Average players complicate the game, great players simplify it.

He only had the one ball.

We've had Silva, but didn't appreciate his worth. We could have had Nuno. For God's sake, bring in a manager with a creative approach before it's too late.

Failing that, sack Dyche with immediate effect and promote Leighton Baines to first-team duties, at least for the interim period.

He did well to keep us up last season under so much pressure. I've backed him myself.

There has to come a point where the club says right now, this isn't good enough, we can't just tread water. If as we expect that was Dyches remit, then he's done it, kept us up.

This year the league is wide open, teams we were battling last year have kicked on, not spending mega amounts more than us, surely that is evident?

Surely that shows Dyche is not going to massively improve this set of players?

I get the feeling he will get a couple of reinforcements in January, then a few more games; if it's not improved, he will be gone.

So why not give a new guy the opportunity to buy the reinforcements he would want, think about next season, longer term. Or will we be blowing any money on players a new guy won't want?

I don't think we will go down this season; if a new manager came in now, it could give us a head start for next season though!

This is no fool. He's been tremendously successful across half a dozen disparate industries -- cars, movies, resorts, conservation, golf courses -- and he's never had a business failure of any kind. If he thought this investment was in immediate danger, he'd be acting with immediacy. He doesn't, so he's not.

Friedkin also isn't a football guy, and he's wise enough to know it. His modus operandi is to hire a CEO to make the decisions and step in himself only when necessary. And I still think it'll be that yet-unnamed CEO who will pull the trigger on bringing in a new manager when it's considered necessary.

All just my opinion, of course.

Hi Brian. When Jimmy Garner was fit, he was on the bench. Jimmy Garner and Calvert-Lewin don't fit into a Dycheball team. He does not believe in creativity in midfield, that's why he chooses to have three defensive midfielders in the team every week.

Has he gone yet?

If we go a goal down we're basically fucked. I doubt he even analyses the opposition because we never appear to try and exploit opponents' weaknesses.

Garner started 34 of 37 games last season. He started 7 of the last 8 games the season before.

And of the four games he was healthy for this season, he started 3.

He's been a fixture in Dyche's starting 11 whenever available.

We'd also conceded 4 to Bournemouth and 3 to Man Utd in the cups. So yes, the defense was struggling. Any poor team will struggle when conceding that much. It's probably easier to tighten up than to start scoring freely. Dyche was a sensible if uninspiring choice who did what he was hired to do.

David @352,

Yes I think Dyche had an opportunity this season to build upon the solid showing of last season and challenge people's perception of him. But we have gone backwards and his limitations made clear once more.

If the right person was available, I'd appoint now to get them working with the players asap and therefore better prepared for a big summer rebuild. I was hoping personally for Sergio Concecaio but he's off to Milan. I still think Graham Potter makes sense if a stylist improvement is part of the owners remit.

I'm not really up on European football, or young coaches coming through, to be honest, but other clubs seem to be able to identify young coaches, and lure them. We seem to have the shortest shortlist in history… I'd be surprised if Pardew isn't on the shortlist.

I understand what you are saying about a new CEO as I always consider them as the most important position on a board.

Presently we just have a new Chairman answerable to the new owners, and Colin Chong as interim CEO, who I expect will be a Director of the new stadium in some capacity in the future.

I would have thought that the new CEO position would have already been chosen as they will have the major problems to deal with as Colin Chong up to date has been interim CEO and Director, with Kevin Thelwell as Director of Football.

It's also possible they were beaten out to their first choice. Friedkin recruited Lina Souloukou out of Olympiakos to be CEO at Roma in 2023. She quit this year after the Ultras threatened her life.

She'd have been a logical choice for Everton, but instead she starts next Monday as CEO at Nottingham Forest, owned by her previous boss at Olympiakos, Evangelos Marinakis.

Souloukou will run Marinakis's whole football operation, which will shortly include Vasco de Gama -- he's buying out our dear fake friends 777 Partners.

Sam #360, yep, he's a good hire for Milan. He'll be managing against his own son next week. (I wonder if the Paulo Fonseca fans on TW will be heard from, now that he's suddenly at liberty?)

Doucoure, Harrison, DCL...none of them have improved under this regime.

The downsides are far worse than the benefits of having Dyche in charge.

We struggle against most teams but particularly the ones that let us have the ball. Forest came with a game plan and executed it really well. They pressed us hard, retreated back when we attacked and broke with speed when the opportunity came. They deserve credit for their approach.

Mistakes at the back obviously don’t help our cause and neither does our slow build up play, we have little idea what to do with the ball other than give it to Ndiaye.

There were still some positives though even after such a poor performance. Nathan Patterson looked good as he did against City, Lindstrom is slowly improving and Mangala continues to look strong. Early days for Broya but he also looks strong, as with Dom, he needs someone running off him though.

For as long as Dyche is in charge we will continue to frustrate, that is simply his style and he is very one dimensional. Touch and go as to whether he will keep us up, despite all his limitations I am not convinced that a new manager is the way to go. The risks are very high and the summer is probably better timing. Where that leaves us with incoming players though is anyone’s guess.

On to the next one, we battered Bournemouth at Goodison and still managed to lose, we owe them one.

UTFT!

Under Dyche, Everton have had more than 50% possession in 11 of 74 Premier League games. Their record in those matches is two wins, four draws, five defeats, eight goals scored and 15 conceded. Those victories came against Leeds and Sheffield United, both 1-0 at home to teams who would be relegated that season.

It is miserable and precisely why supporters will never get carried away with those resolute defensive performances; they have become not only Everton’s trademark, but the one style they are capable of actually playing. If Dyche coaches either attacking or possession-based drills in training it doesn’t show.

Aug 04: 'Hopefully, [it's] going to settle down quite quickly. It's a calf, so we're not exactly sure how the body will respond yet, but I don't think it will be too long.'

Aug 15: 'Jimmy was unfortunate, not too serious; he should be joining pretty soon.'

Aug 22:

'James is a bit closer; he's just coming back in training with the group.'

He was not in the squad for our first two games. He returned to start against Doncaster on Aug 27, sat on the bench for one game and then started at RB for three of the next four. The last game before his back injury he went the full 90 in the 0-0 with the skunks. And if his "form dipped" I didn't see it. Thought he looked pretty good back there considering he'd never played there for Everton.

So the fact is that for the last 50 games where Garner was healthy and available, Dyche started him in 45, subbed him in 4 times and kept him on the bench once, which was immediately after his return from injury.

You can blame Dyche for lots of things, but not for benching Garner on form. Didn't happen.

It's an absolute disgrace the way the clubs been left with no board of any substance for years.

One positive of how we've been run is, there's so much room for improvement that it's not that hard a job, it's been neglected so long that just getting professional people involved will give us some improvement. Get the top people and the improvement could be massive.

Svein-Roger #366, you've used that quote a couple of times now. Are you planning to give Pele proper credit at some point?

Keep us all posted if you hear of any substantial news !

'I'm not done yet - but I don't want to fight relegation

Link

Presumably there will be a shortlist for now and potentially longer and more diverse list for the summer.

If TFG were gonna fire Dyche before Bournemouth they would have done it by now so he’ll have at least another game. But another loss and possibly dropping into relegation zone would presumably see the end of him.

Unless we start winning soon and get to a safer position in the league it will be a long second half of the season. I also worry about Tarkowskis form, lunging tackles and being out of position will make us vulnerable at the back.

That is a very narrow window of celebration for Everton fans in 2024.

I think the leap year made it feel longer.

I hope you are wrong I hope TFG make a managerial change within days and give the new man time to asses the squad and allow him time to bring a couple of players who he thinks will benefit the team. I also think a new manager will give a massive lift to the players and just importantly us fans, as nobody I speak to at the match wants to give Dyche another minute in charge of our club.

It was a painful experience capped off by them bring Ward Prowse on at something like the 80 minute mark.

Well and truly beaten, fair and square, by a far better team.

Bournemouth next - will we as in previous seasons sit on our hands again for this fixture? Fortunately after Bournemouth away we will have another 19 games to play. 18 if you don’t count our game in hand against the other lot.

Three weeks ago I watched Wolves falling apart as a club at the end of their home defeat against Ipswich. My thoughts at the time were that we could write them off as a threat. But then they changed the manager and here we are looking over our shoulder at them breathing down our necks.

If we are going to do business in this window I don’t think it will be with our current manager at the helm.

Come back Oliver Cromwell all is forgiven - ban xmas.

I wouldn't be in the least surprised professionalism seems to go out the window this time of year at Goodison. I write the entire period off no matter who we're playing.

I did hear that Sarri was offered the Milan job before Fonseca. The suggestion was that he wouldn't accept the 18 month contract on offer. A bit of wishful thinking from me but I find it strange that he would turn down such an iconic club in Italy especially after being sacked by Lazio which you would think that Sarri's stock would have been at its lowest in a decade of achievement

He recently spoke in the media about managing in the Premiership one day. Let's hope he turned it down because he knew he had a much more exciting project

Hope you're keeping end up on that rumour mill!!

Moyes receiving an OBE for “services to football” (sic) is as deserved as serial failure Southgate receiving a knighthood.

Considering Howard Kendall never received such an honour, here is a brief appraisal of Moyes’s managerial career:

Preston: reached First Division Play Off Final.

Everton: propped up the dismal Kenwright regime for 11 years, during which he was paid an inflated salary to complete the transition from an elite club to “plucky little” also rans.

Manchester United and Real Sociedad:
sacked at both after under 12 months in charge.

Sunderland: failed to avoid relegation.

West Ham: won tinpot UEFA Conference League but widely disliked for his dull style of football.

James Garner played right, before he got injured. He was over looked because he is not a headless chicken, without skill.

Conor #390, I read that too. Does seem odd for Sarri to do that.

Peter #389, TFG at Roma have hired both old craggy veterans (Mou, Ranieri) and younger upcoming managers (De Rossi, Juric). No pattern there that I can see.

Brian #380, our previous two owners were rich guys who had never built a business. There's a difference. And personally I believe Thelwell has already been handed a budget to bring in players in this window, and has a list of targets in hand. Who we sign will be his call, not the manager's. That's a DOF's remit. Dyche or whoever will be expected to make proper use of the resources Thelwell delivers.

Colin #394, he was never overlooked for any reason except injury. Not once.

Very best wishes to everyone out there for what will be one of the most important years in our Club’s history.

I fear that Dyche is very much in the latter category and wants to control everything, including who is bought and certainly, who is played.

He is stubborn enought to not play any new recruits despite the fact that they might show up as "world beaters" in training, purely because he wasn't consulted, or if he was consulted, didn't agree with their purchase.

It is the kind of inflexible attitude that might well take us down, just as the new stadium beckons.

It’s New Year’s morning here in Australia - Happy New Year to all Evertonians wherever you are.

Up The Blues!

We were shite for a long time before he took over, he overachieved consistently on a shoestring budget for many years. The poor running of the club and Kenwright’s well documented failings are not Moyes’.

He also led a Club, mismanaged by an inadequate Chairman & Board, on a shoestring budget to five top 6 finishes during a period when I'd argue that the Premier League was more competitive at the top end than it is now. This largely due to his ability to spot a good player/character and coach/drill a team. I'd also argue that he was a peak Lukaku away from making Everton successful.

'Propped up' the dismal Kenwright regime...'

And lets all be thankful that he did as what was the alternative? A less dedicated, more haphazard approach by a manager (lets say a Koeman) at that time arguably sees Everton relegated and financially ruined.

Still, I think overall he did a good job and he helped Bill paper over alot of cracks. The achievements highlighted by John above definitely cause one to question the statement by Ian that "he was paid an inflated salary to complete the transition from an elite club to “plucky little” also rans".

That said, I don't believe in going back, he had his time and has shown himself to be outdated. I'd love to see a modern, progressive, young manager be given the reins and a bit of a free hit but to do that we would need to wait till the seasons end I think.

Alternatively, I could really see the fans and club getting behind Mourinho if he'd fancy the job. He would certainly get the crowd going with his passion. He has come out recently and talked of working with a lower end PL team looking to build something.

I should add that I do recognise i have asked for two different things here, i am aware Mourinho does not play fast attacking football and he could no longer be considered a progressive manager, his brand would i believe help us transition better from the shite we have been served up in recent years. Jumping from Dyche to Sarri has alot of risks.

The semi v Liverpool at Wembley finally did it for me, oh and of course Everton 0 Wigan 3 also in the cup.

That said, I think that boat has sailed, time to move on.

Peter (412) couldn't agree more with regard to some of the quality of the football under Moyes on occasions. Again, this has been slightly airbrushed away and replaced by the 'dour/negative' narrative, probably due to the more memorable failures near the end of his time with us (the wholly avoidable 2012 Semi loss being the one that stung the most then and now).

By contrast, his very last game (v Allardyce's West Ham no less) saw Everton produce one of the best attacking performances I recall under him. Ended 2-0, could have been 6.

Yes, there have been some occasional bright spots along the way but it’s been like watching a train crash in slow motion.

Having said that, I do not have the insight as to which of the available managers should replace Sean Dyche, if he is sacked. There are a number on here who keep tabs on such things but I would like to see a manager with a positive attitude and the ability to pass this positive attitude on to the team players.

The away performances weren't great, but we were certainly respected as a good side. At home you look forward to goals and wins. A different age to now

Would I have him back, probably not. Never go back is about right. However it's torture watching Dyche manage this club, and I am not convinced he has enough to keep us up.

The squad is certainly not good enough. The full backs offer little going forward, we've no one on the right and lack true class through the middle. Can we bring in good players now with him in charge?

The best thing for Everton is for dyche to see the team through the season without a relegation anxiety if it can. The club needs to identify their new manager, and give him the entire summer to shape a new team. Mourinho whilst interesting, isn't someone I think will work.

Who is available? Frank Brentford, Mourinho, Ten Hag, Potter, Moyes, Southgate, Allegri, Fonseca, Andoni Iraola Bournemouth.

Allegri is the professional choice. With a proper run club, he would seem the one that would command authority. I could see the Friedkins going after him.

In terms of what I've seen, I would go after Iraola. He's a year left on his deal at Bournemouth, and my sense is he can spot and develop players. He's turned a very ordinary football club, into a club that plays exciting football with good players. Solanke got his move, but he's developed a good squad to include Huijsen, Kerkez, Evanlison, Semenyo and Kluivert on a small spend. He should be ready for a bigger job.

Happy new year all.

The mind can play tricks on you.

Koeman had done nothing and was very new to management a massive gamble that failed on all levels, and we are stil suffering from the money he was allowed to spend. Allardyce and especially Benitez should never have been anywhere near this club. Silva again another unproven manager who struggled to cope with fans expectations. Lampard was again another gamble on an inexperienced manager who despite the money he was given failed to get Derby promoted. Then onto Dyche who I have said on a number of occasions has produced some of the worst football I have witnessed in near 70 years following the Blues.

So who should we get, well lets start by asking what do the paying customers want to see, and that is a team that tries to play front foot football and not 9 men behind the ball in survival mode. Someone who can coach properly and also show a pathway for youngsters to progress through the ranks. Hopefully with new owners we wont have to sell our best players to avoid PSR deductions.

Glass ceilings and caution aside. He had some admirable qualities. His signings were incredible. Sure there was some duds in there like Biffa and the center half who wouldnt head a ball (forgot his name), but he brought in some absolute gems for next to nothing.

I think he would have been a much better DOF than either Walsh or Brands. We certainly wouldnt have spent 500m on Shite if he was in charge of the budget.

All water under now. He can never come back. Not after repaying the Goodison faithful for that tumultuous send off by using his knowledge of our financial situation to get Fellaini and Bainsey on the cheap.

He isn't a winning manager and it's probably too late to expect him to change.

That said, I'd take him until the end of the season over the eyesore we have to watch at the moment. Please make it stop soon TFG.

He would have been sacked here after his second season but the chairman was happy to exist rather than challenge which made him untouchable.

Moyes is a less prickly facsimile of Dyche so if you want more Dycheball get Moyes.

I think international football suits him far better, and I'd be very reluctant to have him at Everton. I just think he's the wrong back ground to relate to our fans and plays a cautious style too similar to Dyche, Benitez etc. It could go wrong too quickly.

Smith 32.27
Moyes 42.05
Martinez 42.86
Koeman 41.38
Allardyce 38.46
Silva 40.00
Ancelotti 46.27
Benitez 31.82
Lampard 27.91
Dyche 30.95

Now these figures don't take into account money spent on players or entertainment value just win percentages. But of the managers hired by Moshiri only Koeman who got a fortune to spend and Ancelotti were the only 2 with win ratios over 40.00 and Ancelotti has the 3rd best win ratio of any Everton manager ever. Also Moshiris last 3 managers have some of the worst win ratios of any of our managers I think only Mike Walker is below Lampard, Dyche and Lampard.

Chapter 1 LAMPARD
Hi Dad it's me. You'll never guess who I'm managing"

Chapter 2 DYCHE
Hoof it. Ignore the noise. Hoof it. Smack Patto on the head. Hoof it. Play my mates kids. Hoof it.

Chapter 3 LAMPARD
"Hi Dad it's me. You'll never guess who want me to lead them into their new stadium when it opens next season. Championship, that's right. Can"t wait to take them into League One. That's the top flight, right ?"

HAPPY and Prosperous 2025 TW's.

COYB

The new owners will have worked out who and when the next manager will walk through the door and unless something seriously goes wrong in the coming weeks I can't see them changing tact.

I listened to a short interview Moyes gave after he won his award and he has no intention of getting involved in a relegation scrap and this point in time of his career. To take on a club in serious relegation trouble given his body of work at West Ham over two stints covering almost five seasons would be a downgrade as it would be for someone like Silva at Fulham.

If you bear in mind in'98 he had Collins, Dacourt, Parkinson, Barmby Materrazzi, Bilic, Big Kev, franny J to name a few. (JHC what would give for a few of them now.)

His final game FA cup versus 'Boro, If my memory serves me right, he played the whole midfield out of position. hence we got spanked 4-0

Squad courtesy of lyndon & MK

https://www.toffeeweb.com/season/98-99/squad.php

Spot on John, there does seem a sense of jilted John about the whole Moyes thing. Let’s make sure we don’t cut our nose off to spite our face here. Moyes is a much, much better Manager than Dyche and will keep us up, Dyche may or may not keep us up. The only gamble in my mind is keeping Dyche.

This is a common view that I hear about Sarri that he would be a gamble, that we don't have the players for his style, that he is not a manager for a dogfight.

In terms of being a gamble Sarri has had instant impact at every club over the last decade since he hit the big time. Moreover he also tends to improve them after that initial stage. Rarely have we appointed a manager who had improved the fortunes of the majority of clubs recent to succession. Even Ancelottii had struggled latterly at Real Madrid, Bayern and Napoli before his appointment.
Every managerial appointment is a gamble, but with Sarri the odds based on his track record are heavily in your favour. We couldn't make a less risky appointment in my mind.

In terms of players not fitting his style Sarri is like any other manager that would come in. Some players he will like and others he won't. However due to his history of improving players he will change the minds of the fanbase of some existing players. At Chelsea for example Loftus Cheek and Barkley weren't deemed good enough and often on the periphery. Both excelled under Sarri.

The myth that he needs 11 Xavi, Iniesta type players is exactly that. He like any incoming manager will demand one or two signings to make his system work. For us that would likely be a playmaker and a left back.

As for the claims that he is not the man for a relegation scrap. Thank God he is not. We have one of those now. Sarri will win enough games of football to ensure we aren't in one. His Empoli team that got promoted when he hit the big time were seen as cannon fodder but finished comfortably away from danger in 15th. He is a guy who has spent his whole career facing adversity, Everton's predicament won't faze him one bit.

For supporters a bit depressed about our negative football 2 good reads about Sarri especially the Empoli story which is quite inspirational.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/06/17/how-maurizio-sarri-forged-his-philosophy-during-three-entertaining-empoli-years/

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11662/11479025/how-maurizio-sarri-transformed-rafael-benitezs-napoli-side#:~:text=Higuain%20was%20not%20the%20only,most%20prolific%20strikers%20in%20Europe.

Don # 276
I was around too and helped in fund raising and on the picket line for the Sutton Manor, St. Helens, miners. I can assure you they were neither misguided or infatuated by Scargill. They were fighting for their industry and their jobs.
You seem to think the mining industry was decimated because of the strike. It was actually the other way around. It was always Thatcher's intention to destroy the industry and to undermine the wider trade union movement.
The Nottingham scabs helped her achieve that ambition.

Anyway, if we're to appoint a new manager in January it probably needs to happen shortly after the Bournemouth game if he's to have any input on any incoming player(s) in January.

As for replacements, the bookies (for what it's worth) have us linked with the following:

- David Moyes
- Steve Cooper
- Maurizio Sarri
- Scott Parker
- Graham Potter
- Michael Carrick
- Gareth Southgate
- Lee Carsley

I know I've said this before (I'm not sure anyone has made a new point on here in ages) but at this stage I'd rather see a few new players in January to strengthen the squad - and then consider a new manager in summer - with Kieran McKenna being my preference.

Miners all over the country knew of Thatcher's intentions to dismantle the industry ( mind you, so did the dogs in the street). The suggestion that they were "misguided" is an insult to each and everyone of them.

These men could read the writing on the wall while those swallowing Tory propaganda were struggling to even see the wall.

Flying pickets looked more like a "firm" than a considered protest group and when the welsh taxi drier was killed by ne'er do wells dropping blocks of concrete on him they were done.

Never has defeat been so remarkably pulled from the jaws of victory

I see so many great viewpoints and stats in simple English. These set of comments reminded me just how passionate our fan base is.

Happy new year all

Of course Sarri would be the farthest thing from what most folks here seem to want -- young, up-and-coming, glamorous. Sarri is 65 and looks older, smokes like a chimney and chews the butts, looks paunchy in his tracksuit and growls a lot.

But you're absolutely right in my opinion that we could not ask for a safer bet to keep us up and a better builder to launch us into a new era. His teams press hard, focus on dynamic wing play and score goals in bunches.

Sarri has declared that he's eager to get back to work. Yet he turned down AC Milan on Christmas Eve. Hmmm.

Hear hear Stu

Mykolenko, Beto, O’Brien, Harrison, Vinagre, Coady, Maupay etc…. He’s been more miss than hit.

Ps Get Doddy back on here to boost his ego !

Paul, SempreMilan reports that Milan did offer Sarri 18 months, but not quite with the renewal terms he wanted.

Colin G., more miss than hit? Beg to differ. Myko has had two-and-a-half excellent seasons before slumping the past six months. Success story by any measure. Tarks, McNeil, Ndaiye, Garner, Young, Tim I., Gana and Mangala far outweigh the failures, which are inevitable with any DOF. And Jake and Jesper may still prove winners. Plus Thelwell has been absolutely brilliant in his sales, getting rid of all the deadwood and generating maximum money from the mainstays we had to sell under duress. Getting £60m for Richarlison was a particular masterstroke.

I was made up when Moyes came out with the comment he wouldn’t want to join a club near the bottom. I don’t think TFG would seriously consider him but if they did it would be a big mistake, it would split the fan base at the very first step.

If they are going to twist they need a name that’ll give some hope and excitement. Not a return to KITAP1.

Bournemouth a massive game for Dyche.

It would also give the new man the opportunity Mike of looking at any that he may want to keep such as DCL, Broja, Lindstrom or Mangala and making his opinions heard to the powers that be in plenty of time so that plans can be made well in advance.

Also, I would have thought that Dyche sooner or later will be going so why wait for the inevitable, surely a few million is small change compared to the benefits that change now will bring. They obviously believe Dyche can keep Everton up, that opinion could and should change if we lose to Bournemouth.

Talking of Sheffield Wednesday Paul, did you see the goal from this afternoon from Josh Windass

Could you see any of our lot having the temerity to try something like that under Dyche.

Obviously, there won't be 10s of millions available to spend in January, but we certainly need to freshen things up, even if we find ourselves stuck with Dyche for the rest of the season.

I can see a few faux swap deals taking place, similar to Lewis Dobbin / Tim Iroegbunam, or have the Premier League rules been updated to prevent that type of deal from happening?

And then we have Barry Rathbone (440). It’s so easy and lazy isn’t it to give one side of the story, inflate it, try to make it seem correct, and ignore anything to the contrary by doing so?

You sound like an animated Whitehouse or Woodhouse Mr. Rathbone in your blue rinse long headmistress plaid skirt.

Let’s consider Orgreave. Were you there Rathbone? I saw it with my own eyes. Do you even bother to read outside the ideological lines of the right-wing press fed by the thoroughly hideous Ingham? That, by the way, is documented.

Who do you think were the ‘football hooligans’ at Orgreave Rathbone? Here’s a clue. Three decades or so later, the IPCC found evidence that three senior police officers in command “made up an untrue account exaggerating the degree of violence (in particular missile throwing)” from miners to justify their use of force and the charges of riot”. The official aim of the 6,000 bobbies there was to ‘incapacitate’ the 5/8,000 miners who were there to help their brothers in the other industry Thatcher sought to dismantle with Herr McGregor (who was the proud recipient of a Junior Achievement US Business Hall of Fame in 1979): steel.

Boy did the cops go tooled up: 42 on horseback who seemed to enjoy charging indiscriminately at demonstrators and the first units with short shields and truncheons ever to be used in our country.

What followed was a cover up that continues to this day to try to hide unregulated police brutality and hooliganism, especially by the ‘snatch squads’. ‘Mob rule’ by miners she called it; it still seems more like Peterloo to me where the Manchester and Salford Yeomanry on horseback charged indiscriminately into protestors. 95 miners were arrested and charged with collective violence with a possible life sentence. Every one of them was acquitted 13 months later, mainly on the basis of discredited police information/testimony (lies, perjury), including the words of 3 commanders. The always honest South Yorkshire force paid £425,000 in compensation claims to 39 miners who sued for assault, unlawful arrest and malicious prosecution. Every claim was found to be’ just and proper’.

Dozens – dozens! – of individual police officer reports had word-for-word identical first paragraphs. The IPCC was given police paperwork that took them 30 months to read, but not one word about police planning because the always honest South Yorkshire force said they could not find anything.

She, needless to say, refused to hold a public inquiry as did her disciple May three decades later. Not one of those police thugs/liars/perjurers was ever charged. Not one miner was ever sued in the civil courts by any of the heroes in blue.

The ‘Welsh taxi drier [sic]’ (Jesus, you couldn’t make it up: real respect that) has a name Mr. Rathbone. It’s not hard to find it: David Wilke.

From what I can trawl on the web it looks like we‘ll probably be ok on both fronts but won‘t have much to spend in Jan unless we shift some out.

Stand down you are a cancer on this site

Have a poll for the cancer on here Rathbone. I dare you.

A really smart, educated, and incisive response.

Some people on here claim that Sarri, if he is to be the chosen one, will get players he needs to match his style. That would have to involve talking to Thelwell. Some of the same people claim that Dyche has hardly any if any involvement in transfers which are down to Thelwell. Odd bedfellows.

Whatever happens, we need root-and-branch reform at all levels and that should include Thelwell, if it follows that key figures in the old regime need to go.

Especially for Conor and Mike G (Hope that you're both well fellas?)

EVERTON'S NEW COACH WILL COME FROM ITALY! via EVERTON NEWS TODAY

Happy New Year to all, bar one, I hope you have a healthy, happy and prosperous in every way 2025.

Good wishes,

Simon 😀💙👍

Happy New year one and all!

😀💙👍

You're right, if by replacing Dyche now I would imagine after 18/19 games it would amount to approx. £2.7mn for compo (unless of course there are hidden contractual obligations)
So in order recoup that, all the new manager would need to do, would be to finish one place higher than where Dyche would be projected to finish, and the compo would be paid for by way of league finishing position.

However, all that would be subjective.

From what is on the internet grapevine, it would seem that TFG are looking at bringing in two players in January, allegedly.

Now whether that is for Dyche or whether it is players Allegri requires for his system, who knows?

Whether the rumours are true who knows?

Conor 434 good post about Sarri, I would like to see it happen. Basically i'm desperate to see the back of SD!

I understood us trying to keep Moyes with a big salary offer. I understood us recruiting top tier managers for that kind of money. But why on earth would you pay Dyche that? It was a lottery win for him.

It's like Jordan Pickford leaving and us immediately putting João Virgínia on 100k a week. It's not some kind of government established standard salary for the role, it's based on the worth of the individual.

I'm hopeful that the next manager is recruited based on the skillset they bring to our current circumstances and medium term goals. That might not be a 6M a year candidate. In fact it very likely isn't.

If indeed it appears a little selective, may I specifically 'shart art' to a few posters please.

Firstly, to Lyndon, and to my 'special relationship' Mod, Michael 😋🤣

Then to Alan McGuffog, Si Cooper, Conor McCourt, Dave and Tony Abrahams, Shaun Parker, Ernie Baywood, Alan J Thompson, Mike Gaynes, Jerome Shields, Dale Self (Where art thou Dale?), Paul Tran, Graham Mockford, Rob Halligan, Rob Jones, Fred Quick, Rob Tressell, Sam Hoare, Jim Bennings, Denis Richardson, Christine Foster, Ed Prytherch, Colin Crooks, John Mc Snr, George McKane, Mark Murphy and Danny O!

No offence to anyone not mentioned, as all posts and opinions are read and appreciated.

Good wishes one and all.

Re Dyche's salary, I bet it was a case of Dyche's agent must have known how desperate Moshiri was when Dyche was approached.

So, Dyche probably thought of a number and doubled it, and Moshiri being Moshiri accepted the offer!

I agree though that going forward, hopefully this financial largesse will stop under TFGs custodianship. If the financial imprudence continues, as under the previous 35 years mismanagement of the club.

The one thing I hope for with some level of high probability, is that the financial and commercial aspects of the club will dramatically improve and start to put us back on a more competitive level of income and revenue, which in turn should shape the platform for the club to start the climb back up the Premiership hierarchy!

By the way Ernie, how is your study going on about the problem in getting more players into the A-League?

He will see out the season, I think. IF that is to be the case, we will not go down because with enough resources the one thing that Dyche is good at is keeping clubs up. I’d rather not have a fireman but the hard-boiled eggs have enough between them to keep us up, even with the current state of the table.

You have said that the Saints are doomed and you have also said that you believe that Ipswich will go down. I agree on both counts. That leaves one place. I would much rather have Dyche in charge in a relegation scrap than Van Nistelrooy. Leicester cannot keep clean sheets (their last was on October 5); we can.

I do fear that Wolves and Palace who have a lovely run of fixtures might pull away. With Dyche, we will most likely get some incoming but according to the experts on here he has no say in wheeling and dealing. In addition, key figures are apparently close to game fitness.

Doesn’t mean that I don’t want him gone now, but there might be minds in places that really matter who from a different – less emotional/personal – perspective see the sense in the status quo for now and roots and branches in the summer. On top of this, we will need the new fella to be a scrapper not someone with dark good Latin looks.

So, there you have it.

And, take note PH, I do provide explanations of what I say unlike you a lot of the time and Mr. Rathbone all of the time.

I can also identify with some of the subjects you've been talking about of late...

Good health and happiness Mark (and to your wife too!) hehe 👍💙😀

Which ELO songs are you 8 desert island discs PH?

I know this is hardly scientific, but Ipswich, unlike us, I think, always seem to have a 0-5 in them. They tend towards the more fluent/on the eye side of the game and that's more likely to get you relegated. Grinding out results is normally what gets you to our new favourite position, 17th. It's horrible, I know.

Plus, I don't get the McKenna love in. He still doesn't know what his best team is and I can't remember when and where the stat came from, but he had played an astonishing number of players in an astonishingly small number of games.

If I had the choice right now, Larry, I'd stick with Dyche ahead of McKenna (and I pray for the day when Dyche is binned), as we don't have the sort of players who can play under the system that McKenna wants to play at Portman Road that include overlapping full backs who can put in crosses, pacey wingers who can put in crosses, and passing forward from the middle not the back.

Overture not even in PH ‘s top 8?

Make it a top ten PH.

PH only likes ELO in their sell-out commercial Brotherhood of Man/Racey phase.

https://liverpoolmusiccity.com/2024/10/17/the-biggest-splash-deaf-school/

PG also recommends this as the best guide to Liverpool/area gigs. Deaf School would definitely be on here whenever anything is lined up.

https://liverpoolmusiccity.com/whats-on/

They played in Huyton, I think it was, last November,

https://www.facebook.com/deafschoolontour/

They are playing in London in February. This is really handy.

https://www.songkick.com/artists/299999-deaf-school

They’re all proper woollybacks in Knowsley.

Some good blues there though too.(phew)

We will be fine I think with or without Dyche. And, quite frankly, I wonder just how much better a new manager would do than our hard-boiled eggs in the present situation.

But that situation is changing. My hunch, and that is all it is, is that the new owners are thinking more about the summer than this month. There is no way that Dyche will be a part of those plans and it is the summer rather than this month that we will see some real window moves without, I think, ancien regime Thelwell.

The missus is clearing up the decorations and has nearly bit my head off twice for nothing other than being in the same room, I assume.. (did I mention she’s perimenopausal?)

Anyhows…

Any chance of a new thread to cover what I believe will be a transformative January? I expect at least a couple of changes player wise and, personally, I’m hoping for a big shakeup in the management.

As bad as we’ve been I’m actually excited for the future, including the rest of this season!

UTFT

Come on, Mark, don't keep it to yourself. Tell us what your on!!

Dyche is so draining the enthusiasm from me that I no longer look forward to going to the game, home or away.

I often wonder if the players feel the same way!

Paul # 480

Spot on. The police were also given the go ahead, from No 10, to illegally remove their numbers and to illegally stop and turn back cars.

When you say "I’m a day in to “Dryish” January"... I assume you're off the tea & coffee.

Just the tea then

It's true that teams who try to play front foot football on a wage bill that doesn't justify the optimism will often go down in a romantic fashion. I'll suggest Southampton and Ipswich are well on that track. Mind you, I doubt they could play all out defence either. They just don't have the players to stay up.

I'm still not convinced that our backs to the wall football is the right approach for us. We have three strikers to rival, say, Rory Delap. We have a few midfielders and wingers who can contribute. We just don't know how effective they could be because they're used as chasers - a collective first line of defence.

The EU had absolutely nothing to do with the destruction of the coal industry or importing coal from Poland or elsewhere. It was purely a Thatcher political decision.

The loss of British car manufacturing is a bit more complicated but also had nothing to do with membership of the EU.

It was mainly due to a chronic lack of investment in design and tooling. I worked in the car industry in the 1970s and some of the equipment we were using was over 30 years old and was prone to breaking down.

Who did the Witch hate more? The EU or the Unions?

You think the EU should have gone 4-4-2?

Fecking naive...mate

When Moshiri just started to take us over I pointed out that his reported net worth, in comparison to other Premier League club owners, was lower mid-table. And then he fucked up himself and all of us by retaining Kenwright, the net result reinforcing to the Premier League (vacuous) "authorities" their opinion for decades, namely that Everton were by far THE VERY WORST run club from those few "big" teams that actually sanctioned the Premier League's creation.

So now we have Friedkin, another lower mid-table owner in terms of reported net worth.

But Friedkin, as he knows unless he's from the Kenwright school of unaccountability, is SEVERELY hampered by the farce that is the Premier League (vacuous) "authorities" when it comes to PSR.

So, again, once Friedkin starts to act we can still expect to be as welcome as a turd in a swimming pool by the current Premier League hierarchy but this time, unlike when Moshiri alone (allegedly) took over, now crucified by the PSR disaster visited on us by Moshiri's football-guru on a yearly basis.

It'll take years to escape from the hell deposited on us by dead and duffer people.

Happy New Year though, and I hope for three points vs Bournemouth ...... still!

When was the last time Don? (Sorry)

'I really believe this team is better than its performances and will prove it with new ideas and a couple of additions.'

I agree with your first part about the team being better than its performances. However, in my opinion, if a new manager or head coach comes in, a true comparison of the current team's abilities can only be made if no additions are brought in.

Also, a general thought, not one of yours. It has been said that sometimes teams that try to play more positive football like Ipswich and Southampton can end up being relegated. I always remember Clough's Nottingham Forest team, the one described as 'too good to go down', managing to do just that. It took the club an age to return to the PL.

If we were to go down and there's nothing to suggest we won't the way we are playing, we could end up being like a Forest or a Leeds and sitting in the Championship for some time.

To avoid that, I'll take boring football and grinding points for now. However, that's easy for me to say as I am not a season ticket holder and a very occasional match day visitor so don't experience the team first-hand. I can watch from afar on the TV so can quite easily turn off if needed!

Anyway, a very Happy New Year to everyone. Hope everyone gets what they want or wish for. My wife and I are looking to move to Weymouth this year if I can sell a house in North Wales so will be even further away from BMD. Imagine there are some Dorset based toffees down there.

A bit more optimism is needed there Don in my opinion. TFG has barely started. The most valuable commodity they can bring to the club is business acumen, which I have no doubt they will.

Before anyone mentions Roma, I view any mistakes there as positive in terms of learning from experience.

I have no doubt we will survive this season and I also see the future as positive. I see a beautiful new stadium with lots of lucrative revenue streams and an organisation run efficiently without the Narcissism from a West End theatre Impressario, let’s give these guys a chance, I think they know what they are doing.

UTFT

I expect you will save them for another Thyme ! :-)

Let's see if tomorrow's team has any surprises, against a team we have never beaten away ! I believe he is on borrowed time and tomorrow will play a big part in deciding his immediate future with us.

Just hope TFG have a finger on the very paltry pulse and have some contingency plan, ready to activate.

Spot on Mark !

I tried watching his press conference yesterday and didn't last long before switching over. I can't listen to him.

I what he said in a effort to deflect blame, then I hope the players ignore him again.

Us mortals can only do what we do. For those fortunate enough to be able to attend today, get behind the team. If you are streaming from your living room, however near or far, and at whatever ungodly hour, stick with them. It's all we can do for a team being told to play the same predictable tactics every week and low on confidence.

There is always a first for everything Derek. Why not tomorrow?

AM or PM, today or tomorrow…

You in some kind of time warp Danny???

Whatever - good to see you back!

See you on THURSDAY! It’s a NIGHT match - 7.45 PM

UTFT

Even in the depths of despair you are always super positive and banishing any negative thoughts. But in your last post even you are struggling to put a positive spin on anything Dyche says, in fact you turned off his press conference, good decision. He tried to make out after the Forest game that the players ignored his instructions, as he is intimating he wanted us to play on the front foot.
Well Mr Dyche you cant just change tack after months and months of 9 men behind the ball, players isolated up front, and without weeks of work on th etraining ground expect leopards to change their spots overnight. Your coaching such as it has been is totally negative and these players have become accustomed to playing defensively. So just telling them a day before a game you wanted a complete turn around in tactics just sums up how inept you are.
I and many others are just sick of this negative brand of football and lets hope the Friedkins act sooner rather than later.

I recently had cause to seek a favour from them and Mike Williams, who often posts on here about their travels, could not have been more helpful.

I think Dyche was intimating the opposite! I think he wanted them to play more defensively than they did. I think his plan is if we don’t attack we can’t be caught on the counter. We’ll hope for a free kick in the oppo half and Nick one from there. Attack has been left out of his plan. It’s been like that since the Bournemouth game and I witnessed it first at the Fulham game. There was no attacking intent whatsoever. That’s my view of it anyway.

The Forest first goal saw us caught on the counter and I think he’s blaming the players for that.

The man doesn’t know what front foot means!

UTFT

I don’t think I have watched Forest play more than three times this season, and even then I haven’t watched them play in any of those games for more than half an hour.

The game was ten minutes old and I remember saying to my oldest lad, who ended up sitting next to me, that we should sit deep and just let Forest, have the ball, because they only really look dangerous when they have got space to exploit, and that’s why I was pointing it out to everyone the ridiculous starting position of our defence about ten seconds before they scored.

If it was down to the defenders then we should expect changes tomorrow, in this area of the pitch, but I can’t see this happening myself.

Will he go 4-4-2, with Young behind N’Diaye, and Patterson playing in front of Coleman? Broja also looked happier when he was coming short, after coming in for Dominic, who had just led the line in our previous game, as well as I’ve seen him do all season.

Tomorrow is an absolutely massive game, but I suppose they all are right now.

I think its our biggest single problem on the playing side. After earning three very credible results sitting deep. I too was really alarmed to see how high a line our defence had taken. Even after a couple of early warnings.

I don't know why or who decided to play five yards higher, because it never, ever works. Tarkowski needs to feel the goalies breath on the back of his neck as much as the rest of us need oxygen. Five yards doesnt seem much, but for him it is the difference between solid defending of his box and being all at sea out of it.

He is pivotal to everything we do. When he plays well we tend to get a result. Unfortunately (maybe driven by desire to answer calls to get on the front foot) he has been caught numerous times this season and we have paid heavily.

I hate that we have to defend so deep, but even if Tarks was dropped he would be replaced by the equally slow Keane. Our full backs are no quicker. I simply don't agree with those who say we have the personnel to get on the front foot.

Every time I see us move up the park I feel like I'm watching a boxer who cant punch, moving to the center of the ring to trade blows with an opponent who can

With the very odd exception this can apply to any of our upcoming games as well.

Our reputation as the most dour, boring team in the league will continue.

I hope I am completely wrong, in fact every week I hope I am completely wrong. Bad times for us Evertonians.

I guess Colin that’s why playing at Goodison can be a disadvantage in some games. The crowd demands we play on the front foot and go for it.

Of course sometimes you may pick up a point or two but you need to score goals to win games and that is certainly a weak area that Everton cannot rectify with what they have at present.
Fifteen goals in 18 games speaks volumes.

I hate our games with Bournemouth as they always seem to bite us in the arse apart from that last game two seasons ago.

Not sure this game will be any different.

Andrew 576
You reckon Dyches plan was keep it tight and nick a goal on the break. Well the Opta stats say we are yet to score from counter attacking or a fast break and are 18th for total counter attacks with 11 so far this season.

Tom 578
Well seeing as Dyche has played the same way since he arrived, we will only know if this team can play a more attacking game if we appoint a manager who wants to play a more attacking style.

Basically suggesting that the Friedkins would be mad to bin him off at the end of the season. (I happen to agree - they should bin him now).

But I'm soooo confused after reading that.

The younger Evertonian has been following this club with an unconditional love for decades. Manager after manager has took the piss and "rewarded" them with a disgraceful brand cowardly anti-football. It's bad enough that they have never seen so much as a sniff of success, but for them to be insulted in this way has, IMO, gone on for one season too many. Dyche is only the latest in a long line, but is he the straw to break the camel's back ?

They've had enough

The problem is Colin, as you say, we have a Manager who is totally incapable of playing on the front foot.

Seems everything nowadays is km on the pitch compared to so and so. Interceptions per game compared to so and so. Successful dribbles compared to so and so

What shite

Dies he fit into the team? Can he do a job for us ?
Footy as we know has gone

I was disappointed with the result, I saw some good football at times but then it broke down or never quite progressed the way I wanted it to develop because certain players simply don’t possess enough quality (and possibly confidence) but, it was mostly very ponderous imo.

But when Dyche said he even used an attacking fullback, i’m sure I wasn’t alone when I shook my head and done this🤦‍♂️

I still think the guy had goals in his locker... but you know what happened to his locker...

Clive@585, is speculating why some of the players might love Dyche, but not as much as they love their agents and the directors of football and managers, who brought them to Everton, in the first place, and this has got to be drummed into the Friedkin’s, so Everton football club, don’t make the same mistakes again.🤞

I agree with the part of your argument in that it was a confusing approach we took to the game because we didn't play on the front foot but defended like we were doing so.

The problem the players had was that either the game plan was confused by a manager not used to playing aggressively or players doing jobs that they have been doing all season finding it difficult to follow Sean's new instructions like he said.

Clearly Dyche was shit scared of Wood. Normally he concentrates on the wide players but against Forest he felt the wide players only came into play because Wood takes the ball in his chest, lays it off then carries his run into the box. He thought by stopping Wood at source, he would blunt their whole attack.

For the first goal for example we had them penned in at the touchline. Tarkowski was detailed to get up Woods arse to stop this while Jarrad was five yards behind tasked with sweeping up in behind in case the wide players got behind the full backs.

Gueye had the ball into Woods feet covered. Mangala had only to step forward to press Dominguez to force them into coughing up possession. His first movement however was negative in that service into Wood was what the game plan obviously was and so he took the negative decision.

At the same time Wood drifted back away from Gueye and Tarkowski to provide an option but when the ball was played to Dominguez in acres of space, Wood seen the opportunity and charged forward. James was totally ball watching. Wood ran right past him, all he had to do was feel him to stop the run but he didn't know he was gone.It wasn't Takowski's pace that was exposed it was his concentration.

By the time James knows Wood has gone, the ball is on his head and he is in no mans land. Mykolenko needed to talk to Jarrad as he probably thinks he has a 2 on 1 to pass Sosa on who has come from wide to in.

That for me Tony was the problem. The defenders were set up to play on the front foot while the midfielders and forwards looked like they weren't. For the first 30 minutes the concoction of giving them time on the ball when they got it with an aggressive defensive shape (I won't call it line because It wasn't) was a toxic one.

They hired Mou as manager, later De Rossi. On the Friedkins' watch the team has finished 7th, 6th, 6th and 6th, won the Europa conference and been runners-up and two semifinals in the Europa League. That's also wild success by our standards.

Obviously this season at Roma has been a mess, with De Rossi going winless the first month and forcing a showdown with the club president, which he lost. She then resigned when the Ultras threatened to kill her. Juric couldn't re-float the boat, but Ranieri appears to have done so, and they're back in the top half. Bad seasons happen to good clubs with wealthy ownership... ask both Manchester clubs and Spurs.

I believe that with Roma the Friedkins have proven their ability to build us a solid foundation and bring in quality people. I also believe that unfortunately it may take quite a while for those improvements to be reflected on the pitch.

Their pace is out wide and this is a team that give you the ball. Dyche knows Wood isn't exactly the quickest so if you play high it requires the full backs to be vigilant and having Jarrad the paciest defender deepest. He wanted Tarkowski to bully Wood who likes to drop deep to link the play.

If we had have been more aggressive all over the pitch n that first half (especially James) then he would have been spot on with his game plan. I feel he has been told from above that he needs to win games so the first goal was crucial. Had we smothered them early on and got the all important first goal then I think we would have done what they did to us when they got the goal.

However, just for balance, I think it's worth pointing out that in the 10 years before the Friedkins took over Roma - they finished (going backwards) 5th, 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 7th and 7th.

Really Roma's position for pretty much all of the last 35 years is wild success by our (crap) standards.

So far though, the Friedkin era has not a wild success for Roma. They have simply maintained their recent upper mid-table league position in a relatively weak Serie A - and failed to get back in the Champions League (despite being regulars for a few consecutive seasons).

When I watch Everton, I don’t think we could be any narrower defensively, and this leaves the opposition wingers, with more space than any other players, on the pitch, and definitely never makes me feel as though we are concentrating on the oppositions wide men?

I was watching us condense the pitch the other day, and our only genuine outlet N’Diaye, kept coming into the condensed space, which was another thing that suited Forest, down to the ground, imo.

I’d love Sean Dyche to succeed but the more people I speak to, the more people I hear saying they have simply had enough of the manager. Let’s just hope he turns it around tomorrow🤞

I want the Friedkin’s to be like Abromovich, Mike. I don’t expect them to spend as much in the transfer market, especially because this is now impossible, but the Chelsea owner, went and headhunted a lot of very talented people, especially to work in their academy.

Merseyside has always been a hotbed for producing very young footballers and this is something I’m hoping Everton, begin to exploit once again🍀

Ditto Les mate. The clue might be in the appointment(s) of Herr McGregor who was, in essence, given one main aim.

Also, MM, your chronology does not fit that of either coal or steel closures.

I like this returned MM on footy and happy and safe travels MM to Malaysia, I think it is.

I couldn't agree more about investment into the academy / youth development - and the talent pool in the North-West.

It won't deliver immediately (it took Chelsea and Man City about 10 years) but it is the best way to secure a successful future and also to represent our community too.