Moyes finally gets a schooling on how to win a tight game

I'd put Beto on as while he hasn't had a lot of service Broja doesn't look like a centre forward and doesn't seem to move to disrupt the defence or attack the ball.

We seem to be attacking through Harrison almost alone with the exception of the odd ball to Mykolenko on the opposite wing while City pass the ball around nicely but don't create any real chances.

I was also wondering why the City player who took a dive then chased the Ref to appeal for a penalty was not booked for any one of those things.

Why does Ossie always sound so miserable and negative when co-commentating on our games?

Strange sub which cost us a point.

Having said that we could have been two up as their keeper knew little about Branthwaite's header and I thought Ndiaye had a chance with which he could have done better.

City's first goal seemed a bit soft and knocked a bit of the stuffing out of us but their second was good.

And lastly the Ref seemed a bit quick with the yellow card for us but very reluctant for them especially Silva on Branthwaite and where was VAR when corners and throw-ins were given the wrong way.

We lack real quality going forward, Moyes has got more out of them than Dyche but still the old saying, you can't polish a turd.

We lack a top class centre forward, ever since Lukaku left that has been that case, which is why every season we struggle to get many more than 45 or 50 goals.

Broja is not a centre forward, he appears to me to be a wide right player, certainly can't play up too alone that's obvious.

Move DCL and Broja on and keep Beto as a sub but we need a much better striker this summer that strikes fear into opponents.

They were there for the taking.

Broja, Harrison, Keane and Doucoure are just not good enough.

Hope our rebuild for next season is a meaningful one, with some more firepower coming from all areas.

Yes we've been hard to beat in recent months, but end of April and we've won only 4 games at Goodison, it's a really disappointing return that is, really really disappointing return.

We've got to win these last games against Ipswich and Southampton to put some decency and respect on it.

Sit deep against good players and you invite the law of averages.

Man City have a strong squad current weakened by the long-term loss of Rodri but still much better than our squad and we have a long way to go to solve this. All they had to do was wait and then brush us aside to win which they did very well.

No, it wan't because Dyche is better than Moyes or the other way round; it is because we have been run into the ground by incompetent owners and Chairmen and we are now a small resource club with a very good ground at last with a potential future with lots of luck and very hard work.

Felt like to me.

O'Brien is part of the future — play him where he will finish up!!
Keane has no future here, so why play him??? Sorry, Mr Moyes, you fucked-up big style today!

Next season, we really need to kick on but it will take years and probably a more attack-minded manager than Moyes to get us anywhere near Top 6 in my opinion.

Top 8 next season will be Moyes's goal, I would think.
Without doubt, Moyes has been and is the right fit right now for the club and he has and he will make us a better outfit, but it will be hard going for Evertonians, unless he changes which he most likely won't.

Hoping we can sign a few players "under the radar" that will make a big difference to us.

He was awful.

Broja should be sent back.
Keane should be released.
O'Brien should partner Branthwaite and we should be looking at some decent cover for RB.

He needs to give Alcaraz a longer look and see if him and Ndiaye can work together.

If Tarkowski is out for a while then Moyes needs to do some thinking.

It is because we have been run into the ground by incompetent owners and Chairmen and we are now a small resource club with a very good ground at last with a potential future with lots of luck and very hard work.

That's complete bollocks, Martin, for the very simple reason that those facts were as true today, when Moyes lost this game, as it was true last week, when Moyes impressively won a game.

So focus if you can on what really fell apart in this game (our defence) — and not what has applied to every game since gawd knows when.

Ipswich won't win their remaining 6 games.

Subs changed us dramatically. Losing Tarkowski, only real leader on pitch, replacing with calamity Keane. He hasn't played any football in a long time, and hasn't improved for the rest.

Taking off Gana, Harrison and Ndiaye didn't work either. They were tiring chasing the ball but the subs never got any sort of foothold in the game, especially McNeil, who looked like he hasn't played in a long time, which he hasn't.

It proved what we already know, we lack quality, too few comfortable in possession. Desperately need a forward.

In fairness, Mykolenko, Harrison and Doucoure had better games, but this was their type of game, working hard out of possession.

We ran out of steam, which was probably inevitable considering the opposition and the way they play.

Most of the time, a much better side than their opponents will win the game, and that's what happened today. No forensic investigation required IMO.

Playing deep and bringing Keane on to ensure so. Keane, true to his trademark form made errors. Tarkowski's injury needed reorganisation not what we got for Moyes.

If Moyes beats his stats against the traditional top Premier League sides, I will eat my hat. The glass ceiling is still alive and kicking.

A disappointing display but, despite the above, it was the injury to Tarkowski that was pivotal. No defence with the hapless Keane in it will keep a clean sheet.

I assume there wasn't a handball for a penalty?

I thought Broja did nothing, but he's had a couple of games to make a conclusion on him. Gana tired and was on a yellow, so I understood the sub. Iroegbunam could've helped Mykolenko more for the opener. Keane is just an accident waiting to happen — booked, lost his man, and lets the ball bounce. A couple of others on top.

Competitive but, as others have said, we lack quality… and today it showed.

Were the Everton substitutions defensive? Is Keane not a more offensive defender?

Keane has to go.

I was going to make the exact same comment.

He will need three, possibly four transfer windows to assemble a squad on those levels whilst ensuring he and the recruitment team get it right with signings.

Man City were beatable today but we create nothing. Ndaiye isn't a left winger as long as I've got a hole in my arse.

Why not give Patterson a go instead of Keane? He was abysmal again. I want to see Ndaiye in the No 10 position.

I hate seeing us lose at home, we were garbage in the second half, and for those slagging Alcaraz what the fuck do you expect him to do with 13 minutes left when we went into shithouse mode???

I hate cowardly shithouse football.? Man City are beatable if you have the courage; the second half was abysmal.

The game plan worked fine today for 80-odd minutes. When it failed, it was down to an individual balls-up. Don't blame Moyes.

Maybe we should have got dry humped like Palace did last week?

However under-par City are this season, they're still one of the best sides in the Premier League. We've played three top teams in a row. Won one, drawn one and now lost one. We've been competitive in all of them.

What more do you expect him to do with a very average bunch of players?

We need to play O'Brien and Branthwaite together in the run-in and let's see how good they really are without their lieutenant.

How good was Mykolenko today, by the way? Best game by a long chalk.

I've seen just 4 league victories at Goodison this season and have witnessed 7 matches where we haven't scored a single goal. This has to be the worst home form in my time watching.

The problem is that Moyes is a pragmatist. Points achieved mean money and some kudos. I am not sure that it is in his DNA to be "experimental" but surely time to Alcaraz, Chermiti, Patterson, O'Brien in the middle, Ndiaye as No 10 etc, is justified for the future.

So it is most likely certain that Keane, Young, Calvert-Lewin, Harrison, Lindstrom, Broja and Coleman will not have contracts renewed (the latter will stay on in some capacity probably).

Players we need to improve on would include Patterson, Beto, Mykolenko, Doucoure. Alcaraz could be a good addition but needs better operators round him.

That's eleven players – Moyes has his work cut out but might just have to persist with some of the names above. Priority has to be pace. goal scorer, right-back and midfield creator.

Brjoa was piss poor but Beto was worse when he came on. That's Beto, who has not scored in seven and pitifully missed four (or is it five?) one-on-ones. What happened to the old chestnut 'just give him a ball to run onto'? No one has seen enough of green Chermiti to know whether he's an answer or not.

We desperately, desperately, need two new strikers, but we might not even get one.

It would be lovely to be proved wrong on both counts.

I've just finished watching Villa and Newcastle and the talent they have up front and in midfield compared to our lame ducks emphasized where we need to reinforce.

Stop playing Doucoure. Alcaraz, Chemeti and Ndiaye must be thinking "What the fuck does Doucoure do as a Number 10?"

As does our centre-forward when he needs someone around them. Carlo, what you doing next season? Doucoure is useless. Got to be the worst Number 10 player, I've ever seen.

Moyes likes playing someone like Doucoure or some other big lump in that role, so get used to it. He'll get us top half next season. Nothing exciting but better than Dyche was doing.

If anyone can name a manager that will take us into the top four or win the Premier League, why don't they? If it was as simple as hiring a winner, then Carlo would have done just that but, as stated in the first paragraph, he didn't. Despite having a better squad than the current one.

We've only lost 3 games since Moyes came back: Aston Villa, Liverpool, and now Man City — 3 very good teams.

Every good team is built on a solid defence; we have that now… but do need good back-ups as an injury to any of the back 4 leaves us seriously weak. Creativity in midfield has been missing for years and finding such a player should be a priority.

Ndiaye at No 10 should be where he plays. A centre-forward with pace is also a must in the mould of Watkins, fed by the creative player and a winger who has to be able to accurately cross a ball.

We really miss Doucoure when he's not playing; he can run all day. However, his final ball lets him down; he doesn't have a wide skillset. We should be searching high and low for a more skilled replacement.

Then Gana Gueye was substituted and it was a case of City finally having a go. They did little before… only pass, pass and pass again, creating little with De Bruyne's effort well headed away by O'Brien.

City got the two goals that gave them the victory but they were less than impressive for most of the game and didn't seem to have the inclination to fight to get into the Top 5vto qualify for Europe's top cup next season.

The game didn't have many exciting moments as the season drags to an end, and we haven't had much to cheer about at Goodison this season. Hopefully the last two home games will give us something special to remember as the embers die and close the Old Lady's days…

https://youtu.be/pYkHcex1cL0?si=nQ7cti8sn9vDQU3y

I missed it mate.

From the Top Balcony, Broja was looking to make runs behind, but no bugger would play the ball. Only Pickford, and with the ball in the air so long, an easy offside. Perhaps Alcaraz for Doucoure would change that, but I was hoping Garner would get on the ball and play some quality.

McNeil wasn't at the races when he came on, and Alcaraz was only marginally better. He had a good break, but played it out wide to Doucoure, who wasn't ready for it, when there was a pass on to thread in Beto for a run at goal.

We blocked lanes with the extra defender and Man City went backward in possession as much as I can recall. I don't know what went wrong sometime after Beto's sub but we definitely lost defensive shape.

The mass midfield sub was too drastic a change. Had we just settled in defensively for a few minutes, the counterattack would have been there. The Tarkowski injury obviously closed the door on any chance of settling defensively.

The trickiest part is finding the subs that keep or take the initiative; maybe Moyes gets a pass for squad constraint there. This may be the Moyes ceiling or there may be some more managing to do. Let's see how the players respond as the level of the opponents goes down.

Losing Tarkowski, then subbing Ndiaye and Gueye killed any hope of us getting anything out of the game. McNeil certainly does not look fit yet but, with already using 2 windows for single subs, Moyes gambled and put the remaining three subs on to use the last window up.

For me none of the subs coming on made an impact, just shows how important it is for us to nail Gueye down for another season.

Hopefully next game Patterson or Young will start at right back, with O, O'Brien pushed into centre-back.

I was one of the unlucky ones sat in the Park End who got a close-up of a trembling wreck, Michael Keane, get done over time and again. I need to see that handball again in the first half, looked like the City player was putting his hand out to stop a bus.

Let's see if we can put it right next week but, for me, neither Broja nor Beto are the answer in attack; thankfully, Broja cannot play against Chelsea so Chermiti should get a chance.

https://youtu.be/aI_ybGHkV3g?si=UA69oXr5w7pdtnLG

I think Beto is nailed on to start at Chelsea. I completely agree that neither Beto or Broja are anywhere near being our answer/s up front.

I hope that neither is with us next season but I would not be surprised if both of them are.

Beto it is then with Chermiti on the bench, after a week of penance. Broja is ineligible.

This won't be a popular opinion but I thought Doucs also did an excellent job. And I hope Ndiaye's shift gets him closer to full-90 fitness.

Finally, if this was another Moyes audition for Broja, I'd consider it another step closer to the exit door. His impact was zero. With him out next game I want to see (broken record here) more minutes for Chermiti.

Edit: Jeff #150, where did you hear that about Chermiti? I've seen nothing.

Gana is one our best players and hard to replace. Michael Keane is prone to mistakes and lacks confidence. Broja has talent but doesn’t score or often get in scoring positions. Iroegbunam leaves gaps defensively and is not ready for first team in PL yet. James Garner is ok but unlikely to start consistently for a top ten team.

It’s encouraging that we mostly matched them till Tarkowski and Gueye went off. We lack depth and quality. The subs weren’t great and I find Chermitti’s absence strange, maybe something we don’t know behind the scenes but he must be worth trying at least.

I've wanted to see Chermiti in that right attacking option, as an impact sub a couple ot times.

Moyes has the same quality of players that've baffled every manager since Joe Royle in terms of winning anything at all and yet he's managing to produce just about digestible football, for now.

It remains to be seen what he might do with better players, if our owners trust him with their money.

In the meantime those of us looking deeper than the instant see what poor ingredients can force us to swallow....... and it's far from what we Evertonians want, surely?

It's like people criticising a Prime Minster for not making instant changes. A magic wand after 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 100 years of decline is some trick. What do you mean the rail system don't work, and the hospitals can't cope.

When you're done la, there's 5 loaves and 2 fishes. Appreciate there's a big queue, but Michael Keane is here to help...

Michael hung his hate on the anti Moyes rant. Now he has to justify it. Moyes is a boring pragmatist but right now it’s what we needed.

If Tony Marsh weighs in...

Because of his lack of pace when called to defend Keane goes deep.Therefore the defensive line will be deep. Substitute defensive midfielders and space opens up for the opposition attack, giving more opportunties, Because of the distance between the defence and midfield .Add to that defensive errors, particularly in the case of a confidence player like Keane, and the outcome is always the same. Because Everton are deep there is less possibility for set pieces and attacking play. Defenders who are effective attacking in such situations can't get forward.

Moyes with his substitutions has now handed the initiative twice to both Manchester teams.He is never going to be a Manager who can beat the Top teams.Even in his pre match press conference he had a obvious inferiority complex regarding Liverpool and Man United.Which I held back in commenting on.Liverpool a average team have been lucky, Man United are poor and Man City are woeful.

I just don't think Moyes has it to take Everton forward and listening to him now just irritates me.The height of Moyes was the initial run of results, but he has regressed since.

At Moyes' age, with his evident lack of success and ballsiness when it comes to opposing so-called "better" teams (of which there are many given the decades-long decrepitude of Kenwright and his chosen one/s) I just have to hope that Friedkin now sees enough in him to dispense with all the evidence of yesteryear to provide him with significant funds for once, to power upwards by signing better players than we currently have.

If that all comes to pass I suggest we erect a statue of Friedkin to stand alongside the one dedicated to our legendary Dixie.

Otherwise our Davie may just revert to history and sign ever more lucrative contracts for himself to keep us, in a good year, with a viable chance of emulating the Hammers.

No thanks - and, as an aside Mr Friedkin, that level of ambition will never fill the stadium you've inherited.

That's remarkable progress.

Let's not forget who we were playing against. City will make players look like they're struggling to have an impact. At their worst they're still very good.

Keane was a slightly different matter. I can't really see what the upside was in that sub when, presumably, there's a future combination of JOB and Branthwaite to start looking at. The potential in that centre back pairing gives me real hope for our club.

And then there were 2...

This is not “bollocks” Michael. I can’t give you science, but I think that the greater part of Evertonians would agree wholeheartedly with Martin. That has been evident on these pages for a very long while now.

As a moderator/editor MK, wouldn’t “I don’t agree with what you have said there Martin” be a rather better example to the rest of us than “bollocks”.

I'm just happy that we have a few games left at Goodison to sit back and enjoy( hopefully). For me, that is all that matters now.

Fortunately Moyes has not been able to get the control of recruitment he wanted , which means that he will be solely accountable for the performance of the first team squad on the pitch, with input into the recruitment process.

For me the crucial change will be in how TFG manage the Club going forward, which Don has partly highlighted. I do not expect Moyes to last the pace.The signs of this for me are already there, but he will do better than Dyche could have. I am disappointed that Moyes has found his level, I was hopeful that he had learned enough on his travels to get above the glass ceiling, but it is Everton and against the odds we seem to be heading in the right direction .

As Grant points out, I think Moyes decided it was better to only disrupt one postition in defence by slotting in Keane, rather than moving across O’Brien and bringing on Patterson.

The goal itself was the collective fault of Pickford, Keane and Branthwaite. They doubled up on Myko for the cross and he has no supporting cover.

Pity as that game was there for the taking.

You mentioned the Champions League defeat, but forgot to share that Real Madrid are second in the league and in the Spanish Cup Final!! The two Champions League win, 2 leagues titles, 1 Spanish Cup win and 1 Club World Cup win since he left us also slipped your mind!!!

Perhaps not enough to satisfy Florentino Perez, but most Everton fans would be pretty happy with a season like this Real Madrid’s.

All moot, as David Moyes will be manager next season.

All the season tickets have already been sold Don, so I expect the stadium to be full every other week.

My feeling is that if we had, say, £60 million to splash in the summer — I have no idea what we’ll have, just for argument’s sake — I’d rather us spend it strengthening our fullbacks and midfield with 3 starter-ready players than splashing £40-50 million on a striker who can’t get good service or doesn’t have quality all around him. I’d rather we finish 10th and build for the future than try to jump to 7th by overpaying for a striker.

We’ve seen what happens when you’re Everton and have to overpay for…fill in the name here. We can pay £25 million for another Beto or Cenk Tosun, pay twice that to guarantee someone with proven experience and have nothing left to build, or pay less and hope to unearth the next gem when it might be Chermiti.

I’d rather hold off on doing any of the above, hope Chermiti shows a step up, that Broja with a preseason and run of health is better than Beto, and still have Beto if all else fails. In that scenario we’re no worse off than this season, with hopefully much more talent around them.

Absolutely not JO and your talk of priorities is spot on in the absence of specifics on what we will have in our kitty. There's a great deal of sense in spending in the middle. Two proper wingers might help that front three.

But, Jonathan, Beto as our top striker for an entire season? That's not progress mate. Let's wait and see.

In some perfect world, Beto heads back to Italy for £15 million, and we use that money to find someone just as good and 6 years younger with more upside. As I’ve said, my great fear is paying £25+ and not getting anyone better than what we have.

I don’t understand all this talk of Moyes’ glass ceiling, surely that can only be judged when he’s had enough time to assemble his squad, which is unlikely to be in 1 or even 2 windows.

There are some who can’t wait to jump on his back but we have done well with so few resources, as others have pointed out this summer is crucial to our future and we must spend wisely. Jonathan makes a good point about spending elsewhere other than on a striker but I think that will be remedied with an expensive loan up front, not Broja but maybe Richy?

Where that leaves us is right where we should be; 14th-ish

And right when we didn't need it, it turns out all along that - Cluedo-esquely - in this particular gunfight it was Keane, at centre-back, with the knife.

Obiwon O'Brien must start with Branthwaite.

This has nothing to do with a Moyes glass ceiling.

Unfortunately, if we are to win more games (especially more games against the best teams) we need better players. It will take time and money to assemble a better squad.

The idea of spending £40m to £50m on a striker is fanciful for a few reasons.

1. that could use up our entire net spend in summer.

2. there are very few strikers worth that much who would be prepared to join Everton.

3. that amount of money does not guarantee goals - as we have seen from Solanke, Hojlund, Nunez and others who cost much more than that and play for much better attacking teams.

Unfortunately, our chances of signing a striker who will score more than 12 goals next season is very low - even if we do spend up to about £45m.

Ok - Evertonians are disappointed by not getting a result against Man City, instead of resigned to the fact that they will be beat - that speaks of heady progress in my book.

I was not a massive advocate of Moyes coming back, but when he arrived Everton were 1 point off relegation - just over 3 months later we are 17 points off relegation and disappointed instead with a defeat to the champions instead of resigned to defeat, only losing narrowly (and many would say undeservedly) against the current champions and the champions elect. If that is not massive progress (with virtually the same squad), I have no idea what is.

On to yesterdays game - like a lot said, it was disrupted by Tarkowski's injury (Moyes will now know a lot more about his options than previously) - plus the baffling substitution window. Because of the enforced change - 3 changes were made for tiring players at the same time - thus disrupting the rhythm - and handing Man City and the initiative (not to mention their ridiculously deep well of talent off the bench - how did they afford that, how - hang on!!!).

Up until that point Everton had the better chances (Tarkowski hit the post), played some very nice football (it is actually nice to watch the games again) and contained city very well. Hey ho, circumstances then dictated otherwise.

Whatever your thoughts/preconceptions about Moyes- look at the bigger picture - so far - an excellent job done - despite yesterday's result.

Keane, I feel a bit sorry for. He wasn't up to speed and the opposition were high quality. Had we been playing a lesser team, he might have got away with it.

However, as likable a guy as he is, he has lost his man/been asleep or miskicked on so many occasions that he simply has to be released.

He would do a decent job in the Championship for a Sheff Utd. With lots of PL experience he will surely find a new home.

Broja though looks fat, slow and despite having some nice skills, he looks as potent as a castrato.

Beto is a trier with good pace but needs a little Cottee type playing off him. I imagine Jarrad Bowen would be a good partner but way out of our price range.

Then there is Chermitti he looked good preseason but a year down the pan for him. I reckon that preseason will determine his fate.

As for Moyes mistakes. In hindsight yes, O'Brien into the centre would have been better than Keane. But it's not like Patterson has been lighting fires.
Taking Gueye off was probably also an error, although he was on a card, and unless he's gasping I'd always keep N'Diaye on - he's just such a threat going forward. But I think the strategy was to keep the energy up with fresh legs to see out the last 10 minutes, it played out badly due to Keane's mistake and its super frustrating.

Barry - Brian Williams is a completely different bloke who posts a lot more than me!

Beto - he is an interesting one - I think he needs to be put back in and given the service of balls through the middle - he will get chances - whether he takes them is down to him, confidence and luck I reckon! I just don't like the combination of him and Doucoure as the ball them seems to become a hot potato in the final third of the field with that combination.

Football has and always will be about the players, so until we have got the players, then we are always going to struggle, when we have got certain personnel on the pitch.

Patterson played out of position at left back against Arsenal the other week, but other than that he hasn’t had a sniff, so I I don’t understand the logic behind people saying he hasn’t been doing well.?

Moyes went with Keane, there is definitely a lot of logic in going for a straight swap, but anyone who has watched Everton long enough will know that the straight swap, often ends up putting our defence into a straight-jacket.

I will forever be grateful to Michael Keane, for the only time I’ve ever seen him show genuine composure in the penalty area, but as a defender he’s never been more than second rate, imo

Stassin of St Etienne (12 in 30)
Emegha of Strasbourg (12 in 25)
Parrot of Alkmaar (14 in 28)
Kalimuendo of Rennes (14 in 29)
Vanat of Kiev (15 in 23)
Barry of Villareal (15 in 32)
Kleindienst of Monchengladbach (15 in 27)
Burkardt of Mainz (15 in 25)
Ugalde of Spartak Moscow (16 in 25)
Arokodare of Genk (17 in 30)
Pavlidis of Benfica (17 in 30)

Of these, clearly quite a few are flattered by playing in a weak league. Arokodare doesn't look any better than Onuachu, who also starred in Belgium before joining Saints.

Troy Parrott has a pretty poor record at Millwall, MK Dons, Preston and Ipswich (although in fairness he was young and developing).

Pavlidis, after goals against Barca in the Champions League, will be very overpriced. He's a good finisher, but flattered by playing in an excellent attacking outfit.

The players more obviously suited to Everton are Barry, Emegha and Burkardt. The former two are big, strong athletes - with more ability than Beto but certainly still raw and in need of patience as they develop their game. I doubt they'd each score more than 12 for us in season - and are likely to cost £30m(+). They could however be good longer term signings.

Burkardt is very talented but less physical - and he's just come back from a serious long term injury.

Kleindienst, who we have been linked with, is only hitting goals now at 29 after a very humdrum career knocking about the German lower leagues and failed spell at Genk in Belgium.

Neither of these Germans looks likely to hit more than 12 goals in the Premier League.

People argue, moan and take a lot of things out of context, when it comes to debating certain individuals, but like Don said, he hopes Moyes delivers and this will only be possible if he’s allowed to sign better players 🤞

I wonder if Kalimuendo could be an option? Has had a good few seasons in France and still young at 23. Crucially he could also play on the wing potentially too. Not sure on price but probably around the £20-25m mark which could be doable.It seems unlikely, unless the kitty is larger than we expect, that we’ll have £30m to spend on a pure striker. More likely we might buy a Richarlison type who could play right wing or striker.

I also think Ugalde is an intriguing option. Wary of course from players from Russian league but our last Costa Rican was a hit!

Bizarre.

I thought the game was indeed tight until they scored, but to say Moyes got schooled is just nonsense. He didn't get schooled, the game could quite easily have gone either way, and City are masters at keeping the ball so when you concede to them in the 85th minute, it's going to be incredibly hard to get a goal back.

Not every loss is a chance to have a pop at our players/staff. Some games you just don't win, regardless of how tight it is, or who was the better team.

Fair play to City, it could just as easily have been an Everton victory, and I thought we played well.

Keane is a disaster, the poor bloke looked so rusty yesterday it was untrue. At least he only has to play for about 4 games or something, and none of them hold any great meaning, perhaps bar the Southampton game which of course we'd all love to win being the last game at the old place.

We’re a team of, at best, mid-table players and were playing against one of the most expensively assembled teams in history, desperate to clinch CL footy next season, and managed by one of the most lauded managers of recent years.

Shit happens. The fact that many of us thought we had a chance shows the improvement recently.

Onwards and upwards. UTFT!

I was hoping City wouldn’t bring on Dofu on as I knew he would cause problems from the left wing which he did.

Doesn’t Moyes talk to his coaching staff because if he didn’t know how poor Keane is then Baines could have put him wise after playing alongside him for quite a few years, and the changes caused the loss with the main one caused by injury and was at the root of the loss.

It will be interesting to see how Branthwaite and O’Brien play together although allowances will have to be made while the new partnership gets used to each other—— I’m taking it for granted that such an experienced manager like Moyes will not be playing Keane again this season—— unless it is as a striker even Keane would perform with more energy than the Chelsea loanee —I’ve forgotten his name already.

But his decision to bring on eeyore on to replace Tarkowski was the real mistake. A leopard can never change his spots.

Alcaraz isn’t a moyes type so I doubt we’ll see him again next season.

Here's a link to the goals / stats bit: Link

I know you've mentioned Thierno Barry a few times already - and he has progressed well in Spain after emerging in the Swiss league. Possibly the best option of the lot. And I saw you mention Emegha the other day also, Steve.

Lots of other options too - who are not having high scoring seasons - but this at least illustrates the difficulty.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/mika-biereth/1083007

I know I'm repeating myself Ian but to see the best of a centre forward, he needs support in or around him. We don't have that. We have the players to link up with the centre forward but Moyes doesn't fancy that.

Until we are able to score more, we are stuck in a loop, depending on an excellent defence and 1-0 wins.

Clearly our current centre-forwards not up to it (not including Chermiti as we don't know), not enough goals from wide players and midfield. Big summer ahead.

It's the perfect opportunity to fully assess Jake O'Brien as a centre-back. Failing to start Alcaraz suggests Moyes doesn't want him. Patterson needs to start and show if he has a future. Chermiti needs to be given a proper opportunity. Iroegbunam, too.

Harrison Armstrong's season at Derby Countyends before our season end so he can be given an opportunity. However, is this in Moyes DNA? I doubt it. Seamus has to have his 15 minutes of raucous goodbye too.

I think Moyes did, of sorts, play a Number 10. It was Doucoure. He could have played Alcaraz or McNeil there — but he obviously prizes Doucoure's running and defensive discipline.

He might be right, too.

This isn't a good group of players. There isn't a simple tactical fix that will make us better.

I thought we might get a draw before the kick off, we gave them a game for 70 mins.

Tarks injury was the turning point.

Raymond (213) City are still in the top four but never played like one yesterday I think if I was a City supporter watching that game I’d have been very disappointed with their performance ——in fact I never heard them throughout the game ‘til they scored the two late goals and I sit in The Upper Bullens Road stand not too far away from them!

Pickford, the back four, Ndiaye, Alcaraz (TBC), McNeil. And we will still have Harrison Armstrong.

I'm not getting to concerned about what we may or may not have to spend in the summer. That's out of my control and the owners will decide that. I would imagine they will have to remain conscious of PSR, but we won't be the only ones.

It could be £50M, it could be £100M. Who knows? Whatever it is, spend it wisely on realistic targets. We need depth in the squad as much a quality. The obvious positions are full back, right wide midfielder and a striker if we can stretch it. I still think we may need backup in the centre backs. Take yesterday as an example, as good as our first choice back four are, if you take one of them out, we are significantly lowering the standard.

Maybe not a priority. If we bring in a right back, cover or improvement for Mykolenko, then we have 3 very good centre backs in Tarkowski, O'Brien and Branthwaite vying for 2 places.

I watched Doucoure to see if I could make a sensible unemotional conclusion about him and I though that he had a very good game mainly in CM and just ahead of Gana who he supported really well. I think that we should try to keep him.

We need 3 or 4 better quality players over summer yet I'm not sure that we have the financial resources or the power to find and attract the ones that we need. If we can make some of the buys that I see us being able to, then I can see us reaching 8-10 at best but it's achievable. To do better we need corresponding better players and some of our own to develop. If we don't improve we could possibly be in the relegation mix? Is Moyes the man to do it? I really don't know. What is the potential for the club and new owner dynamics? I really don't know.

Okay maybe it is just a Moyes mezzanine but we need to find the stairs to the striker position. We likely cannot play Doucoure and Beto without forgetting about final third possession. It will be balls in behind and direct play all day long. Beto cannot defend well and that leaves us relying on Ndiaye dribbling us out of our half with little structured support.
Broja offered little in the way of goal threats but was more effective at pushing or nodding the ball into the advancing midfield's paths which allowed more controlled possession. Where he picked his running lane was a problem, there was little understanding about the play from there. It looked like there was instructiion to reset possession rather than pursue an immediate attack on goal. We settled for getting it deep and finding the fullbacks to set up a cross rather than trying to feed Ndiaye for a cut inside across the top of the box.

Moyes has some disparate parts to assemble now. That will be where he proves if he is the one, not when he gets more transfer influence.

As for yesterday we did alright until City realised they had
to compete for the ball and of course Doku created
mayhem.

Most TW's see that Moyes is not a long term solution. His strategy is limited and in game decision making questionable.
But at the same time the majority of the players he has at his disposal are inadequate.
Can this be rectified this summer.
No.
Why ?
Apart from returning the loanees (who we will only miss from an actual numbers point of view) who is out there that we can attract ?
We are depleted in players owned. So, low on real assets on the pitch as well as quality, does TFG have the readies for buying ?
If they do, do we have the space FFP wise to bring in the seven or eight we are short of ?
With the academy / U23/21 offering up nothing whatsoever (no change there then) do we resort to our one sellable asset ?

Its my belief that out of contractors are going to be given sweet deals for short term survivability.
I don't see a revolving door in the players entrance at BMD.
I see one or two players at most coming in for cash and a couple on loan. And as is the Everton way, not the ones we need, signed one minute before the cut off.

I hope I'm wrong.
I hope BMD is a catalyst that repairs the long abused, shattered and forgotten motto
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.

I don't see a solution to the problem of using Beto or Broja. Just observing that Beto usually can't get behind the defence until late in the half and has very poor positioning without the ball. Broja can't create his own shot and doesn't wheel away from a layoff that gives the receiver a lane to feed.

I actually thought the team played more in control with Broja on the pitch. The lack of threat could be down a lack of football IQ but he does other duties with decent awareness. I'm not ready to give up on him.

Overall, pleased given what is available. Just feel like I was sold a used car that I forgot that I sold once after all the feel good talk in the interviews and pressers.

Beto this season is scoring a goal every 150 minutes on the pitch, which is more than decent. I'm not remotely predicting he'll maintain that pace, but I think he's earned a shot to show how he can do with a full season. One thing for sure, he does create his own chances. And I think that's adequate for the moment.

You also screened out his achievements since 2021 because you point about him not meriting a return here didn’t make any sense if you included them.

Good that you know Real Madrids view on the Copa Del Rey though. You must have good inside knowledge.

Moyes as far as I can remember has never played Keane, certainly not for an extended time during a game. He gave him a game, a like-for-like swap that just did not work.

Our next game will show if he is a shrewd manager and moves O'Brien to the centre of defence, and brings in Patterson or Young for the right-back spot, or if he makes the same mistake as our previous manager, and continues to play Keane. My money is on him binning Keane.

We saw the same with Harrison: Moyes dropped him and told him to get his confidence back and he was dropped for quite a few games. Since coming back, his work rate and commitment has improved. I feel the same will happen with Keane, he will get an arm put round him, but at the same time taken out of the firing line.

We never saw that with Dyche; players played no matter what. At least with Moyes, he has spotted weaknesses and worked on them, taken them out of the team. Now I know people will mention Harrison and Doucoure, but who else do you put there? Both are willing runners and put tackles in. At the moment, we are limited to who we can put there… Alcaraz, Ndiaye, yes, possibly as a Number 10; other than that we are struggling on quality and numbers.

McNeil did not look fit yesterday, looked like he was pulling a tractor on a rope while going through treacle.

The next game and line up will show if we learned anything from yesterday, but I reckon Keane will be binned, O'Brien shifted to centre-back, with either Patterson or Young starting at right-back.

We saw yesterday just how important Gueye is to our midfield: as soon as he went off, City strolled through our midfield. I think another huge loss to us more than any other injury was Mangala, we looked solid with Mangala and Gueye there in midfield.

Never been a big fan of Calvert-Lewin but a no brainer if he accepts the new improved £100k contract and we see with better service and support what he can do. Looking at Beto and Broja, neither are the answer so nailing Dom down could be the best solution and hopefully bring in a top quality striker as well. I know Beto is our player but, if we can get at least two-thirds of that money back, I would let him go.

Anyway, let's see if lessons have been learned for our next match at Chelsea.

It doesn't look like we can afford both a creative midfield and a consistent scorer for next season or wait until they have developed. Anyone know who is running our scouting team, assuming we have one.

Cole and Yorke.
Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo.
Henry and Bergcamp.
Sharp and Gray.
Sharp and Lineker.
Quin and Philips.
Haaland and De Bryne.
To name but a few.
Who have got?
DCL and a headless chicken.
Betto and a headless chicken.
Brossia and a headless chick.
A headless chicken who just runs around chasing the ball. Cannot tackles, Cannot pass the ball. Offers nothing to the centre forward.
This is not personal. Just strictly business.

Colin, I'll take a wild guess. You're talking about Jack Harrison?

He looks very talented and may make it as a first teamer but I expect he’ll be looking for a loan next season.

New contracts will be offered to Doucoure and Gueye, but at substantially reduced terms. Coleman will be offered a role at Finch Farm. Patterson will be sold.

Chermiti and Armstrong will spend the next season on loan, preferably Premiership teams, but if not Championship teams.

Add this lot together and you’ve got a bloody big hole, and add that we desperately need two full backs, another quality midfielder and a quality centre forward. It’s going to be a difficult transfer period and if the signs are Moyes isn’t getting the fresh players, and or Doucoure and or Gueye decide to leave then Alcaraz ?, Chermiti, Patterson might have to stay on.
It’s not going to easy, but it’s going to be fun.

Agree 100%... I just don't get it.

Oops..."I've said it again"

Before the injury that Heath never truly recovered from, yes, he and Sharp were developing an understanding and relationship, but he was never quite the same after that.

Gray also developed an understanding and relationship with Sharp, but different.

So in terms of comparing apples and oranges, Heath probably the better player in terms of movement, Gray more your traditional centre forward, who brought a presence to the team and character when we needed it.

Both contributed to our success at the time in different ways.

This made me think about our loss of Tarkowski, our only leader on the pitch, who will be missed. During that period, we had Neville Southall, Kevin Ratcliffe, Peter Reid and Andy Gray on the pitch.

Ratcliffe may have worn the armband and lifted the trophies, but we had leaders in all areas of the pitch barking out the orders to the troops.

I get the thinking behind the loans, but surely we need to give these youngsters some first team experience? How can we say none of them are ready when most have never been seen in first team action?

I can’t see how a 15/20 minute run out now and again is conducive to to deciding if young players are first team ready, or not.

I understand the likes of Branthwaite are proof that the loan system does work. But I also believe if you are good enough, then you are old enough. Whether any of our youngsters prove to be good enough is a different matter.

But I just don’t get this mad rush to get so many players out on loan, when we could have a good look at them in pre season first. Then make a decision whether a loan would be beneficial for any of them

From what I've seen there aren't many who are ready to make the step up yet. I watched Harrison Armstrong yesterday and would like him back in and around the first team squad. He looked a different player to the one I saw in his few appearances in the Everton first team. For Derby against West Brom, he was playing deeper than I remember and he also looked physically tired as the game went on. That could make sense as he is still only 18 and his body will be developing.

David, that may have been a factor. I also think being asked to play a second major cup final in 3 days could have contributed. It wouldn't happen now and fixtures would have been re-arranged to allow Everton more time to recover.

The trouble is, to be "good enough" even for a mid table Premier League side you need to be (by age 18/19) at least as good as or better than experienced internationals.

U21 football is generally of a lower standard than non-league (our u21s regularly get beaten by non-league sides).

That is why Premier League clubs loan out a very high volume of players. Not just one or two each season - but often dozens of players age 16 to 21. For example, Villa, this season, have about 18 on loan in this age banding.

A high proportion of the best players in the Championship and League 1 are loan players from Premier League academies. Quite a few are playing in European leagues too.

Our likeliest first teamer from recent academy age groups was Ishe Samuels-Smith but we had to sell him to Chelsea to manage PSR and insolvency risk.

Our last academy graduate to feature regularly was Tom Davies. After initial promise everyone concluded he was crap. He was ahead of Harrison Armstrong in his development - international recognition and age at debut. Looking back, he would probably have benefited from a loan.

The reality is that we have not invested in our academy and the quality isn't there. As well as losing Samuels-Smith we've also lost Lienou and Lawrence to City. We have only two players in the England international set up from u21s to u16s (and in each age group there's about 30 players recognised).

I am hopeful with Armstrong and Graham and one or two others - but it could be that our next first team regular from the academy is currently 14 years old or younger.

With such riches on offer in the Premier League then all 38 games count. With each place worth about £3m then blooding youngsters in the last couple of games could be the difference between 13th and 17th and £12m.

Is an 18 year old going to play more than 6 games a year? Generational talents such as Rooney, who also was physically right, are the exception. Armstrong seemed to tire in the less demanding Championship. And going on loan he has now had 13 games with about 70 minutes per game. That has done him a lot kore than in the U21s or sitting on the bench. Yes it is far easier to see the impact of a striker. If his goals meant Derby had escaped relegation then it is easy to see his impact. But he is playing the Garner role.

If the player is not good enough (Holgate?) to hold down a place at a Championship club then would we want them starting for Everton. It is the chance to see how good they are without paying the price if they aren't. The U21s are really for developing players who are not going to make it in the Premier League with a view to selling them on amd recouping the cost. And don't feel sorry for these lads, they will still earn more before they are 25 than most of us will earn in our whole careers.

Anyway, looking at various 'stats' (?) it's amazingly simple to see where Everton need to strengthen.

Everton have conceded just one more goal than Forest who are currently 3rd.

We've conceded four goals less than Newcastle who sit 4th.

We’ve conceded two goals less than Manchester City who are 5th.

We’ve conceded the same amount as Chelsea (40) who are 6th.

Villa (having a great season) have conceded seven goals more than Everton.

In fact only three sides - Liverpool, Arsenal, Forest - have conceded less than Everton.

So that’s the good news.

The bad news?

The only sides who’ve managed less goals than us are - (roll on the drums) - the bottom three.

Now I know stats don't tell the full story (and it's certainly not for me to tell the presbyterian Ancelotti how to do his job) but it seems to me that if we could buy a proper, natural, greedy-for-goals striker (eg: a Lukaku, Andy Johnson, Yak etc) with the same defence we've had this season, a top 10 finish would seem easily within reach.

Up the Toffees!

Then I look at the impact that Andy Gray made, we barely lost a game until the title was decided and we took our foot off the gas.

Then I look at the Sunderland game and those two diving headers of Gray, the Bayern Munich game where he wasn’t taking any nonsense from their players, he made a huge difference on influencing the players on the pitch, less goals than Heath but a never say die attitude.

Heath was certainly playing the best football of his career, as for the cup final, for me a game too soon after our first Euro trophy, not helped by a baking hot Wembley and extra time, a lot of that team were running on empty, even before the extra time, another couple of Days rest and the treble would have been ours for sure.

The season before we beat Watford in the final 2 nil, as for the milk cup final a nil nil at Wembley where Heath saw a goal bound shot cleared by Hanson’s hand, but the biggest factor that Day, Andy Gray was cup tied and for whatever reason, Kendall left Trevor Steven out of that final.

So a cracking debate, Heath was simply brilliant before that injury, but the impact Andy Gray made when he came in got us over the line in a number of games, none more so than the Bayern Munich game.

The following season we brought Linker in, he did a great job, got the goals, scored in all three games he played against the red shite, but goals alone do not win you trophies, Southall injury a big factor, yet Mimms came in and kept 6 clean sheets out of his 9 appearances, losing Heath, Southall and Bracewell at various times also made a huge impact.

I cannot disagree Sharp and Heath had a great partnership, but Andy Grays contribution, leadership and team presence certainly landed us two of those three trophies.

But, it doesn't distract from what a great player he was for us, which is how he should be remembered first and foremost.

I say great, as I don't like the phrase "legend". As you probably know, I think it should be the preserve of those who were and limited to a few. As you dropped the Sheedy bomb, you know what's coming next, so I won't say it!!

Hope you're okay Martin and we see you at Goodison for at least one of the two final fixtures. Take care mate.

Spot on Brian with those two League Cup finals v Liverpool he would have tormented that Liverpool defence and would have matched the influence Souness had on the game, quite possible we could have won the trophy with Gray in the team.

I think you might have got the draws and losses the wrong way around Brian, (maybe not?) but it was nice to read about the overall contributions that both Andy Gray and Adrian Heath both made.

I also think Andy Gray, had a huge influence on Graeme Sharp, who wasn’t a naturally aggressive player, whereas Heath, was a clever little player who had the natural instinct to play off Sharp?

There’s not enough logical common sense in the world, especially in football, (imo) but I’m glad you pointed out how good we are defensively Eugene, and wonder how much this improved once Brantwaite replaced Keane?

I have often thought the hardest part is adding to something without taking too much away, but the base is definitely there and it’s why I keep saying it’s a much bigger summer than a lot of people realise?

I genuinely hope that’s the case anyway!!

I would like to see that in the final game(s) - as we did with the likes of John-Joe Kenny a few years ago. I doubt we'll be in for an easy ride against Ipswich or Saints though. Our fully fit First XI is not a lot better than each of theirs. So we need to be a bit careful (unless you prize blooding youngsters ahead of the result).

It might also leave Chermiti and Patterson wondering where they stand going into the summer, if Graham and Dixon are preferred ahead of them.

I’d also like to see Harrison given a chance on the left and perhaps Dixon, Sherrif etc on the bench and maybe given a few minutes to see if they could be part of the squad next season

When Andy Gray came in, we lost just the 1 game until after the QPR title decider win, winning 17 games and drawing 3.

Up until clinching the league, the only defeat we suffered with Gray in the side was a 4-3 away defeat to Chelsea.

I would like to see Chermiti and Patterson start in the next five games starting at Chelsea on Saturday when it looks like Tarkowski won’t be playing and Broja is not eligible being a Chelsea player, I don’t think Dixon will at Everton next season through either a loan or transfer and I’d prefer Graham to play before Benjamin or Sherif, the lad looks the more likely prospect and has an instinct to poach goals maybe a proper fox in the box.

Personally, I think Dyche would have kept at least 2 of this season's bottom 3 in the Premier League. They will all be relegated because in their enthusiasm to play football they leak far too many goals. But they all pose a threat - especially Ipswich.

Ryan (26) I’m not fully convinced about Nathan Patterson either but I make allowances for the injuries he’s had and the fact that he has never had a good run in the team but I’ve seen enough to think he can be a success as a wing back and Moyes trusted him enough to play left back v Arsenal instead of Young who he trusts and rather than play O’Brien there, he wasn’t great but he okay imo.

Liam (262) Yes Sir Lee Patterson might have been more offensive especially if he talked to his opposing winger— his spit would have blinded them- better than Carragher at that— mind you they would have to dig him up to get him onto the pitch!

Would you be happy to get Doucoure off the wage bill at £120k a week, and offset it on De Bruynes wages for the next two seasons.

I know we want to try to get away from high wages and players at 33, but for a 2 year stint, not every Day a Kevin De Bruyne comes along.

Me personally I would say yes please, especially with no transfer fee to pay.

Chances are he will chase the money, but just for arguments sake, he wanted premier league football instead of the money.

Who would be for taking him.

That should throw the cat among the pigeons among you all.

If he was younger yes, but we couldn’t afford him and wouldn’t give us a second glance!

My only reservation regarding Sharp, as great a player he was for us, is that he "took the shilling" in doing so allowed himself to be seen as "guilty by association" through his non-executive role.

Certainly at the very least, one could say that his board role as a liaison to fans was a complete and utter failure, not a word or action during what was one of the most bitter, on both sides, periods of fans discontent and boardroom failures.

I think his loyalty in that role soured his reputation as an Everton great which is immensely sad. The door is open and I hope he will return but in the eyes of many he is and always will be tainted.

Or is this the latest TV reality voting programme that I have't watched yet?

I won't forget the player, but his silence may as well have been full blast.

Shame, but I'd still welcome him back as the player we remember.

I think fans have always judged players. Going back quite a bit, I remember fans in the pink Echo suggesting things that might improve players and team performances; a few weeks later, you'd see those changes in Everton's' and Liverpool's' teams made by the managers, including Catterick and Shankly.

I don't watch reality programmes but reading comments on them and listening to people who do, I think football is getting as boring and as bad as them, I don't think I'll miss football as much as I once thought I would.

I'll definitely miss going to Goodison Park though and those memories will never bore me.

Here's my view on the KDB thing.

As you say, £250k pw - meaning c. £25m over two years. The positives are you get an exceptional talent for free and it's broadly affordable.

However, to me (and I'm being a realist here) it is a complete non-starter.

Given age and injury record KDB could play as few as about 30 league games for his £25m wage over the course of a two year deal. It could be less than that.

Even if he plays more, he is not surrounded by the exceptional talent (and depth of talent) he is surrounded by at City. Signing him could mean the difference between finishing 8th and 11th in each of the next 2 seasons. Signing KDB is not going to mean we can suddenly compete.

But Forest did it!?

Not by signing players like KDB they didn't. Forest have done it by signing a very high volume of good value players (most sub-£20m and quite a few £20m to £40m) at substantial aggregate cost over the space of a few years. It was a risky move but they've now got a good squad and a big squad. I expect they are very pleased they bought Hudson-Odoi and Elanga as big club reserves, instead of old, injury prone vanity signings like KDB.

In any case we have a small squad that is losing a lot of players to frees this summer as well as ending loan deals. We need to cover a lot of positions this summer, and tying up that much money in wages on one player won't help.

Paying a £250k pw wage to one individual is also not good for squad harmony - and would create wage inflation amongst other players. It would have significant knock on implications.

It robs us on money we could invest, instead, in a 2 or 3 younger players who could (a) occupy positions in the first team for more than 5 years and (b) generate money for re-investment if sold.

Whilst the chances of us finding a young talent as gifted as KDB is low - the chances of us finding someone as good as, say, Gibbs-White are really good.

So we should focus on that profile of player - rather than old, injury prone vanity signings. Which is what I fully expect us to do.

For me it's a big no to KvB but I do not sign off on anything.

If you look at the fallen Mancs, no wonder they are in the shit, if paper talk is to believed a few examples

Rashford -375k per week
Fernades -400k per week
Casimerio -350k per week

I do not want our club to follow this lead but I have no say. So may the very good, nay excellent, KvB move to Saudi and enjoy his twilight years.