Moyes exasperated by defensive blunders

How many times is that this season that they have thrown away a lead?

A lot of our squad are either poor players or are not up to it mentally and Moyes has done very well to get us safe at this point in the season. We will get better as he weeds out the players who aren't up to it.

We need to avoid the trap we've fallen into before and not buy players on their way down. We need to get a few young players through into the squad though there doesn't seem much in that regard apart from Armstrong.

We will be restricted by FFP rules and I do wonder whether Branthwaite or Pickford will be sacrificed to increase the transfer kitty?

This will be a slow process – I'd guess two seasons to get to mid-table and maybe creep into the Top 10 but who knows what will happen?

We need to continue to support like we have all season and try to be patient, which isn't easy but, with the new stadium and new owners, we are moving in the right direction.

We scored 2 goals, which makes a change, but that's the thing, play more attack-minded players and you run the risk of conceding more goals.

Defence has been our best asset, it's swings and roundabouts and of course Tarkowski was missing, which probably cost us the match.

Each game Moyes will have a better idea of who he wants to retain and who he doesn't; results are not vital for us now.

Honeymoon is well and truly over, we've reverted back to type and are going nowhere — not even when we move… and I for one will be delighted when we move from that god forsaken place, it's fucking cursed I'm convinced of it.

Another shit weekend courtesy of Everton. I'm absolutely sick to death of it.

A New Stadium and New Owners… fantastic, but realistically the bulk of this squad should be moved on and replaced or else it will be more of the same next season.

A great opportunity to rebuild and have a squad challenging for European places and cups. Please don't get it wrong.

Spot on.

It's still a turd.

Dyche gave it a go. He got some crud off. Sadly we then added more. Nothing he could do to knock the edges off and make it something it's not.

Moyes's cleaning kit, being different, gave the same shite a more rounded look but that crap keeps shining through. He can only do so much.

We need a jet spray to blast away all the shite that's caked itself in over the decades as well as more recent pooh.

Unfortunately, Masters and his PGMOL (featuring anti-EFC VAR - for extra non-stick points and stubborn decisions) have removed the power supply allowing us to cleanse that nasty past.

So protective wear on for next season's huge sloppy cow pat that is destined for our fresh new pasture.

Our problem is we are still fragile when the opposition ups the pace and runs at us. We scored two good goals but, the moment they scored, we panicked once again and started trying to hold out as they increased the pressure.

No doubt Moyes knows what is wrong with this squad and will try to rectify as much of it as he can in one window. But I think next season will be more about consolidation within the Premier League and avoiding any further relegation battle trauma.

We are at the start of a new era with a new stadium and a new ownership regime. But we must not get carried away like we did at the start of the Moshiri era. We cannot expect to go from relegation dodgers to challenging for Champions League places overnight.

We need a proper plan and the means to carry it out.

With McNeil's and Enciso's, it showed you can't leave Premier League players time on the ball to pick their spot.

His comments on Alcaraz are interesting. Has he been reading the likes of these pages? Regardless of what I or any other supporter thinks, a coach should make decisions on his own instinct and knowledge of the players he sees, day-in & day-out.

Our current predicament will probably take a couple of seasons to fix, but teams like Forest have shown that rapid improvements can be made.

But with a financial backing we seem to have in place, playing it cute in the transfer market, why can't we compete next season? Why should we wait a few seasons? I don't think we have to.

Are we really going to pick the bones on that?

We had our moments earlier in the game, but over the course of 99 minutes (45+3 then 45+6), we looked cautious and ordinary against a team that has shipped 76 goals and has a goal difference of minus 41.

This season is over. Time to move on. Even in the depths of despair before and just after Christmas, we could have done much better on the back of the bounce. But we've reverted to type.

I genuinely hope we don't do that next season.

I saw a side that played a lot higher, and with full-backs that got forward. The delivery and movement was poor, and we lacked know how to fashion chances desite possession.

I am hoping that, with the extra capacity and improved match day revenue, Spurs make £700k from hospitality each home game. Stadium naming rights and possibly even getting Finch Farm sponsored. That all in alll we might have a few quid to spend.

Things will not change if Moyes is just going to bring in players; he has to bring in players to a working system that they can buy into.

It does seem that Moyes dropped Doucoure and Harrison due to fan pressure, according to his comments, but as manager, he has to have working ideas to bring in replacement players and change tactics.

He has to beat Southampton — or else he will find himself outside the new stadium looking in.

I'll be honest: despite all my years of playing, I don't really know what low block means. Sitting back and defending? As good as their first goal was, that got them back in the game, we certainly sat off for it.

The front 4 disappeared after our 2nd goal, and the subs contributed nothing. The players should be able to show their quality in front of a good home support, against a team that's shipped 76 goals, as you say, regardless of who the manager is.

Alcaraz, McNeil, Ndiaye and Beto should have been rubbing their hands together at 2-0, playing balls through, committing booked players, and taking shots.

Instead, not a shot from Alcaraz or Ndiaye all game. I've said it before, but that as an attacking player is unacceptable.

Moyes might have told them not to give the ball away in cheap areas. But he certainly would have not told them to create bugger all, not make positive runs, not to close down a shot, to lie down on the floor for a free kick, face the wrong way for a cross, or loft crosses into the sky for easy keeper claims.

We can argue "the manager this, the manager that"; in some cases, that was true under Dyche — this season moreso when we basically didn't cross the halfway line.

Under Moyes, we are actually getting more bodies forward but we are now seeing the overall limitations of certain players that we thought were the bee's knees.

The likes of Ndiaye and Alcaraz offer something but they don't for me offer enough consistent end product or enough shots.

That's probably where you root out 'the best' from the 'just decent'.

Plenty have made the comment of tactically poor, same old David Moyes, etc.

I am just intrigued what they want to see differently from the manager. No one seems to be able to explain that, apart from 'be better'.

Focal point midfielder, at least one full-back who can attack as well as defend, and at least one striker needed.

I think just shows we don't have a good squad but we probably need at least 4-5 new players with quality.

I think Moyes should have reset the positioning after we tried for a third following McNeil's goal. centre-backs moving wide and dropping a midfielder between had already produced.

We should have had Beto and Alcaraz close the space above Gana and Garner. Enciso was revealing himself as a danger man and we did not adjust to that.

In the second half, keeping possession around the final third was just demonstrating our attacking impotence. The ball should have been recycled just inside their half while looking to get Beto a pass in behind their back line.

Keeping possession without shots around their third just allowed their counter-attacks to gain rhythm. Shorten the field for our back line and give Beto some isolated opportunities.

Maybe I'm naive but I think the squad would have understood why the reins would be put on. This was our fourth collapse from a 2-0 lead this season.

This might be understandable coming from a player who hasn't played much football this season, two overhit second-half crosses, and a side foot “was it a shot or a cross” straight into their keeper's arms, after possibly our best team move of the whole game, midway through the first half.

The reason we never extended our lead was because we lacked intensity and we never really played with enough width, bar those over-hit Patterson crosses, and a few flatter to deceive balls that were curled into the box from Dwight McNeil.

When a team lacks quality, one of the few things that might paper over this is playing with intensity, but I didn't see much evidence of this yesterday.

I honestly don't think the squad is nowhere near as bad as some people. I think it's a squad that is mostly full of mid-table players; the only way we will improve is by adding more depth and more quality.

As others have said, midfield should have been blocking but the most noticeable thing to me was Jarrad moved left, leaving a huge gap between him and O'Brien. That would not have happened with Tarkowski there who would have had them better organized.

I thought the back 4 were awful yesterday which is why we gave 2 goals away to a poor side.

Patterson is not the answer and Mykolenko is average but Jake and Jarrad are too inexperienced to play together. Only my opinion, of course — others may disagree.

Ndiaye doesn't look like No 10 to me. Looks much better suited to playing out wide.

Alcaraz has a lot of quality and would benefit from having better players around him.

It was alarming how many times Ipswich players beat their man yesterday just by running at them.

People really do downplay how much the opposition can affect a game when playing an average (not terrible or worst ever) bunch of players.

I haven't watched much of Ipswich this season but the consensus I have observed was that they'd undone themselves this season simply by being a bit too gung-ho. It paid off for them a few times (I think they took 4 points from their games against Chelsea) but generally meant they conceded plenty of goals.

They certainly weren't gung-ho to begin with yesterday and, for half an hour at least, played with everyone pulled back and filling space to reduce our attacking options drastically.

What their adventurous exploits in their previous 34 league games seemed to have taught them was that they could fashion decent chances against most teams and so they were never without hope or belief yesterday.

Sitting in my seat in the Main Stand, I tried to spot where I sat with my old dad in the Bullens Road as a wide-eyed 8-year-old. I can still remember seeing the Holy Trinity in all their glory as well as my two favourite players, Jimmy Husband and Johnny Morrisey.

I could also see my preferred standing speck on the lower Gwladys Street where for about 8 consecutive seasons I barely missed a home game in the '70s watching the likes of Wood, Lyons, Pejic, Dobson, King, Latchford, and my all-time favourite Duncan McKenzie.

Sadly, I missed the great team of the '80s as I moved to the USA to study before moving down south of the border to work in Venezuela. At that time, there was no satellite TV or internet so I had to wait every couple of months until I received my copies of the Pink Echo that my parents would send me religiously.

I read them in chronological order so as not to miss anything. I'd even read the adverts! Hence my hesitance to comment on the likes of Reid, Sheedy, Sharpy, Inchy, Mountfield etc…never saw them live to my eternal regret.

I did get to watch Everton win the European Cup Winners Cup on an old black and white telly in a bar and screamed with joy at the final whistle. The locals weren't impressed. How I felt homesick and envy for those at home.

The '90s passed me by ‘sin pena ni Gloria' as they say in Spanish. Missed all the relegation escapes and only found out a few days later if we'd even survived or not once the local English language newspaper got round to reporting it. Same goes the the FA Cup Final win against Man Utd. I had to wait until the following Monday to see we actually won.

I digress. Yesterday's pre-game celebrations by the 1878s were brill and it was a carnival atmosphere almost up to half-time. We know what we are and where we've been recently, so it wasn't a major surprise to see what eventually happened. It was almost inevitable.

Moyes was never my choice to be manager but I think he was the right man at the right time. We will be mid-table safe next season, possibly even top half, then I think we'll part ways amicably, maybe even move him upstairs.

All-in-all, it was well worth the six hundred nicker or so to say goodbye to the place which has given me so much joy, and heartbreak over so many years.

If I could've changed one thing, pre-match, I'd have swapped the banners, flags and ticker tape for bog roll and seat cushions. Far more in keeping with Goodison Park's traditions.

Same with Alcaraz, too static at times, but I also think that players like him need better players who are prepared to run off the ball and also run forward, around him.

When players are beaten with ease, Liam, it is usually because of one of two things, mate. I thought the system left a big hole in the middle of the park at times yesterday but my biggest gripe was our lack of intensity because this is possibly the most important thing any team can truly possess.

Especially at home, when the fans have all turned up ready to party🤷‍♂️

I get the humour in your last paragraph but I thought the Argentina touch was absolutely brilliant and the only thing missing was a giant 50-foot flag displaying the blue liver bird on the medals of our very first Championship-winning team, but maybe we can save that for the opening of the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

You do hear stories...

Gana has made countless vital blocks and tackles over the season, he is a machine. He is in the mix for Player of the Season. 'Tis totally wrong to just forget how vital he has been this season and to focus on yesterday's situation, where he got done by the very taleneted, 21-year-old Brighton loanee, who has a history of scoring worldly goals.

O'Brien also, maybe at fault for the equaliser, but he is young and still getting up to speed of the Premier League.

Our deliveries and composure are still rubbish, which is what separates the top teams from the rest. Moyes has done wonders (I fookin groaned and shook my head when he came back), but let's be honest, he has surpassed all our expectations and got us safe in no time.

We have played the top 5 recently, which is why the form table looks shite. Some easily forget the shitshow we were just a few months ago and expect us to be rolling teams over. Patience and a look at the big picture of where we were and where are now, is where I am at.

Well done, Davey and the team.

Here's to your next trip to the Everton Stadium.

Coleman Palmer movement would definitely help Moyes tactics.

I thought Jimmy Garner played well but we need a player who can pull the strings, someone who can move around the pitch and knit players together.

You watch Vitinha for PSG. He is all around the pitch knitting his team together. Great midfielder.

I was scanning my various specks from my TB seat yesterday, the boys pen, paddock, and lower bullens for the Bayern Munich game , which I was working away at the time but we used the workies van to come back for the night.

Moved into the MS and TB when I started earning, great memories for a place I’ve been visiting for over 50 years, like many others of course and for a lot longer too.

1. Idrissa Gueye 124
2. Daniel Muñoz 109
3. João Gomes 105

Well a lot more to be honest, Table position can yield some much needed funds for the rebuild for one. Players who were given a chance to impress, or dictate their possibility of being with us next season for another.

I watched the 'Old Firm Derby' before, (Rangers V Celtic) now Celtic were declared Champions last week, but it didn't diminish the efforts of either set of players ! A cracking game to watch to be honest.

One possible plus yesterday, it does show we need an almost complete overhaul. With PSR still hovering although funding shouldn't be a problem we will still have to spend wisely.

The stadium looked great before the kickoff, and I’m reluctant to say something that might offend the magnificent efforts of the people who set it all up.

But there was a part of me that felt we were observers at Goodison yesterday, rather than participants. Over the years, the visceral, vital moments at the ground have been when the fans have taken over proceedings, becoming a life force that has taken us though derbies, cup ties and relegation battles.

I have been hearing all sorts of rumours about the final game. If it was down to me I would let the players walk around the pitch (immediately after the final whistle), together with anyone who has ever played for us, then have a lone piper play briefly in the centre circle before we leave.

I honestly think in some ways we as a club have missed a trick to be honest here though, in a suggestion I'm about to make that's not happening but with more planning and thought would have been amazing.

Why did we not have a final commemorative match at the end of May against the Brazil national team?

Would have been a momentous occasion if we could have arranged that, given Brazil's history at Goodison and our close bond with one of its finest modern day son's in Richarlison.

I don't know if it could ever have happened, or if at any stage anyone at the club would even have thought about it, but it would have been tremendous for many folk who probably haven't been able to get to Goodison for many league games this season for obvious reasons.

There are quite a few of us, yourself included I’m sure, who would like a minute or two to themselves.

Thanks for your rememinces,brought back memories. You do post very informed comments over the year. I thought you were local., but you have been about a bit.

No keeper in world football is stopping McNeil's or Enciso's shots. Not even Big Nev Danny.

I have seen enough of Patterson to say he isn't good enough. He does get forward but can't cross the ball or defend properly.

Apparently if you booked a ground tour for £150.00 you got a ticket for the match yesterday! Never heard of that one before.

For the final game, I am expecting the pubs to be rammed with well-meaning fans who haven't got a ticket to experience Goodison for old times sake.

I just hope none of the pubs follow the example of the "world" famous Arkles last week and charge fans £10 to get in before the match. No shame for some is there.

The low block is a 4-4-2 formation with two inverted wingers making up the first 4 and the full-backs with the midfield making up the second 4. The 2 is the two centre-backs. The objective is not to allow any space for opposition attacks and support play.

Applying a high press, the objective is to provide scoring opportunities and hopefully a forward will get the right connection. The use of inverted wingers is the key.

Dyche was better at implementing this, but could not get the team to implement the high press and the defensive line was too deep. But he also was more sensibly orientated.

Moyes hasn't a clue. Moyes has Ndiaye and McNeil as the inverted wingers. Dyche had Walker and Mylolenko as the inverted wingers.

Wolves had Vitinha on loan for a season (along with their large Portuguese contingent) but it didn't work out (they already had Moutinho and Neves and he didn't get game time).

If we stop massively over-recruiting from other Premier League clubs, we can do it.

"Dyche was better..."

"Moyes doesn't have a clue"

The respective points tallies wouldn't support that view.

If he's that shit, I assume it's an easy fix?

I'll try and get home late May or early June, once the city has been cleaned up, to see if I can have a closer look at the new stadium. Does anyone know if they'll be doing stadium tours?

Jerome — who the fuck is Walker?

Once again, I would suggest it is you who doesn't have a clue.

It all depends on what the owners can spend.

We cannot make a call on the manager just yet.

You say Moyes hasn't got a clue and then go on to say Walker played as an inverted winger for Dyche??

Does that also make you clueless?

Yes, Ipswich are relegated but, save a few games, they've been competitive all season. They're just not quite good enough but it's not like they get thrashed every week. Generally, they compete and lose by the odd goal.

Suddenly, they have a game where the pressure is off and they can play and put themselves in the shop window as a few did and, lo and behold, they tie a team barely above them position-wise, if not points-wise, in the table.

As to our team, the fact Patterson as our only in his prime right-back has been arguably the fourth choice for that role all season should tell you something. We'd rather play a lumbering giant who hasn't proved himself in his own role, a 39-year-old — until recently, or a once good player who's been ravaged by injury. On paper, Patterson, if he was half-decent, would be a shoo-in.

Garner, meanwhile, I don't see the fascination with. He occasionally has a decent game but otherwise wastes endless set-pieces and offers little else except overtime for the physios. So quite how it's surprising the right-back and centre-midfield were deficient is beyond me.

I'm not 100% certain but I believe they signed Carlos Soler from Valencia. Now on loan at West Ham.

Tim might have more potential? But he's nowhere near it yet.

I think we've had a similar issue all season where we refuse to make changes in the centre of midfield. I understand we're low on bodies in that position but you simply can't expect them to run out 90 minutes with our style of play. It feels like consecutive managers have held off making that change until they felt that they absolutely had to. And by then the momentum has often changed direction.

It's a fast game in this league and it asks a lot of players. We play it faster than most given we don't control games. The changes should be coming much, much earlier.

If it has to be Tim, then do it. Don't wait until Gana and Garner have completely run out of energy.

Thanks for that. I assume he was a similar type player while the link with our Manager and West Ham is intriguing and makes me wonder if PSG continued with such defensive midfielders or have moved to something different?

They surely aren't in the same financial position as we are.

To me, Garner is a vital cog whose value will increase in a better side. He does two crucial things. He wins big challenges and recoveries, especially off his teammates' errors.

And he's our safest player in passing the ball through the midfield -- unlike Gana, Duke and Harrison, he never turns the ball over in bad positions. In three seasons, he's committed only one error leading to a goal. (Tom Davies used to commit more than that in a month.)

No, he shouldn't be taking set pieces, and yes, I'm concerned about his recurring back problems at only 24. But if he stays healthy, I think he's still a core starter next season, because even if we sign a bunch of attacking talent, somebody's got to do the unglamorous jobs.

I am not counting the honeymoon period when Dyche's and Thelwell's effective midfield was effectively utilized by Moyes's more effective attacking tactics and hardworking press.

After the midfield broke down, Moyes has no answers. Once the relegation pressure was off, the urgency at Finch Farm tapered off.

David #63,

It's not about individual players, it's about having players motivated, aware, and properly utilised within the formation.

Moyes's answer to the loss of Mangala, and Lindstrom to a lesser extent, disrupting the midfield balance, was a return to Dycheball in his defensive tactics. He has not been able to implement it.

Set-piece play has not improved, it is just as bad as it was under Dyche.

Tactics or players? That will no doubt be an ongoing debate. A combination of both for me. Take your pick.

I also believe we've got the basis of having a decent team with some of our players. I've said elsewhere, Pickford, O'Brien, Branthwaite, Tarkowski, Mykolenko (I'll include for now), Gana, Garner, Alcaraz, McNeil and Ndiaye. Bring back Armstrong and see what he can do as part of the first team squad.

Now for the summer and filling the gaps as well as adding much needed quality and depth to the squad.

James Garner seems to divide opinion, as I suppose, a few players do, We all read the game differently. I think he's done well since coming back from injury. He has an eye for a forward pass, likes a tackle and has been benefiting from playing alongside Gana. That's just me though, we won't all always agree.

Jerome, I lose track of these new phrases. It genuinely took me a while to have what a number 10 was explained to me. A supporting or second striker. Could just be my simplistic head! And I'm still trying to figure out what a false number 9 means.

So, the low block is getting behind the ball when and pressing to turn the game back around and regain possession. I think I've got it. Probably something we've always done. I wonder if I am starting my transition into becoming a footballing dinosaur?

Gegenpressse is another one, which provides the intensity that Tony talks about, but it requires incredibly high levels of fitness to maintain it for 90 odd minutes. Klopp get's the credit, but in the modern game it was Ralf Rangnick who introduced it. It was probably done prior that, but didn't have a name.

We have been more set up as a 4-2-3-1 this season, certainly under Moyes. I struggle to remember what we were doing under Dyche, as I often left the ground feeling numb.

I try not to get too concerned about formations and I'm a big believer in making the formation fit the players you have, not make the players fit the formation you want to play.

I also like formations to be fluid and changeable during the game. The best for this, in my opinion, is 3-5-2, which if possession is lost, can very quickly become 5-3-2 until possession is won back. But to play that way, you need very energetic, hard working wing backs and a protective, covering midfielder (Gana fits this).

Played correctly and with the right players, it is probably the best attacking formation. We could theoretically try it, but we don't yet have the quality of player and would be wide open on the flanks.

It's all theory and opinion though.

I do believe there are tours of the Stadium though I have no details. I have been intending to get over myself, but life has been hectic this past 5 years.

I bought a flight 5 years ago and have been forward changing it for five years. Not coming from Liverpool, it is off the family track of getting away.

My last view of Goodison was on a wet day when I managed to detour my daughter away from Southport.

Watch this if anyone is doubting me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_EqYWJ2AOA

Yes, that is my understanding of the low block. It is getting behind the ball, not giving the opposition any space to build or support forward play. Avoiding wing play which reduces players behind the ball, and crosses that, if dealt with, can set up opposition attacking play with space to work in.

The forward play is about getting the formation forward and reinforcing with player numbers to get more opportunities for players to get the right shot connection.

If too deep, it unravels as the opposition gets numbers forward, with defensive errors. If not effectively managed going forward, it leads to gaps and exposure down the middle and to backs without pace.

I agree with your analysis of the team players, which shows an understanding of the low block from playing experience, anyway.

The crux of the problem is the original question you posed to Tony. I just don't think Moyes has the answer. I wish I was wrong.

Moyes does have a better understanding of forward play than Dyche, but that falls away if he can't implement the players and tactics necessary for the low block, which he has attempted to adopt from Dyche.

Best thing is to keep an eye on the official website under the tickets and events section. It's all on there.

Paul @65, I believe that a native of Edinburgh (often pronounced "Edinburg" by the colonials who have also been heard to refer to Scotland as a place in England!!) is a "Dunediner" Don't ask me why!!

Jerome, yes, I kind of understand it, but I suppose you are right, from my long-gone playing days. I have become more studious of the game as I've aged.

It was all a bit frantic as a teenager stood in the sway of the Gwladys Street getting caught up in the atmosphere. Equally as memorable though.

I remember when Turkey had a great World Cup and there was a great picture of five Turkish players running after one Brazilian, like a pack of hyenas.

Anyone who has ever played football at whatever level they played at will usually be able to recall that they had most of their better games when they worked very hard.

Intensity is key, because it turns average players into good players and it turns good players into very good players. That's the way I see it anyway.

I am sure there are many who would welcome the chance to go on a tour but imagine once the season is over, they'll be concentrating on the move.

Is that it Jerome? The old chestnut about players not being motivated, set pieces being shite, and we are playing as defensive as Dyche? That is the sum analysis why Moyes is shite and we need a younger /different manager?

What a load of horseshit. The set pieces are shite, because there's only Mcneil with the ABILITY to take a decent set piece, and he's been injured for the last 5 months.

The motivation must have been half decent to put in performances against Liverpool twice, Arsenal, City, Forest with inferior players.

And the team has played further up the pitch and have created chances despite injury disruption to a small & weak squad. The game is not over at 1 nil down anymore. All the attacking stats are way up.

Dithering Dave, he's a shite manager, etc, is such a tired post that gets trotted out when 3 points arent taken. This is poor squad, with low technique and low physicality & pace, that lacks consistency in their performances. You can hire the next 5 managers, and the complaints will be the sane without root & branch correction in the transfer market.

The only thing I think I've read is from Tony asking for more intensity, and another asking for more midfield changes to maintain it (not that weve got many bodies and the quality is suspect). I can semi agree with that.

Id throw in play street wise, and stop the game further up the pitch with tactical fouls, draw booked players into red using the dark arts of the game, push the buttons of delap to see if his head falls off - we remain a naive club. Some would hate that, but that's what the best do. They draw fouls in the box, they stop the danger, they target the weak. Verstappen, New Zealand Rugby etc all win, and play over the line to get victory. Whether you do that in 13th to 15th when you're safe I doubt it.

Id also want to see more risk with the passing rather than this checking back bollocks, I want balls down the sides for beto, he can make an average pass look good, I want more runners hitting the spaces, and players prepared to release the ball with quality delivery. Get a throw in up the pitch, get a corner, get the fans in the game. Again this will be described as long ball, and there's a line between aimless hoofs vs playing a good pass. Get it wrong and it's described as sloppy. Again this is a characteristic of our players ability to deliver, rather than the manager.

If we had done that I think fans would be screaming blue murder at the incompetence - and demanding an older wiser head for the role.

Personally I think Moyes would have Brighton in much better shape than Hurzeler has got them in.

I wouldn't want our striker to be chasing the channels too often, appreciating that sometimes it's necessary.

Going back to Tony's post @76, hard work, commitment and desire are as important as ability. Coming off a pitch knowing you couldn't have done anymore and haven't left anything out there is a feeling you get, win, lose or draw.

I would also add the importance of running your socks off, off the ball. Not just when you have it and not always to be the beneficiary of receiving it for your efforts. Often, that lung busting run makes space to create a chance for someone else.

And the importance of having better players around you is not to be underestimated. That too can make a decent player look like a better one. When you look up and you have intelligent players making intelligent runs, it makes your life easy.

Of course the players have to take the blame for poor performances and results, but so does the manager. He's part of that team to, and sets them up to play how he wants them to.

Read your posts 9,11&13 with mild surprise. You know my comments on other threads about getting the team we wished for and hoping we don’t suffer as a result. Sadly that appeared to be the case. Disappointed that no matter what the outcome you keep reverting to blaming Moyes no matter what he does. The players have to take some responsibility when given the chance to show what they can do and for me that didn’t happen on Saturday

Yes we went two goals but we were so open with a strong bias of attacking players that we were left vulnerable at the back particularly when our midfield failed to stop runs. We should have been making tackles in their half of the pitch but that IMO is not in the DNA of the group of players selected.

I do agree with your post at 80 where a team is composed of a mixture of attributes (not all have to be skillful players but each has a function in the team). Reading the post sounded to me that you were making the case for Harrison for his defensive covering and Doucs for his tireless running, leaving space and opportunity for the skillful players around them to deliver.

Roll on Saturday at Craven Cottege to see the next episode for discussion.

1 win in the last 10 league games is poor; however, he has done an okay job overall given injuries suffered — Calvert-Lewin, McNeil, Tarkowski, Ndiaye, Lindstrom and Mangala. Bear in mind that Benitez, Lampard and Dyche spent a large part of their Everton managerial career without a single fit striker.

My opinion on Saturday was that Moyes got the selection and gameplan right, and the players could not maintain the required quality, intensity and confidence.

Minor point, and I'm not being a dick. It's now one win in ten.

Players, manager, club? We can point the finger at who we want, but it just isn't good enough and it's not like we've been setting the world alight on the pitch.

I'm glad we got those vital wins under Moyes after he came back. I hope he gets the backing and can bring in players we need to improve.

Then, next season, he get's a fairer crack of the whip. It's his to succeed or fail with.

No more excuses, no more lowering expectation. Many of us have children who have had nothing and been drip fed on the odd derby win.

It's time to be Everton again.

If the new owners do not back David Moyes in getting his targets, then the fans know where the responsibility lies.

Pacey fullbacks and a quality player wide right would alone make a huge difference to this team.

Like all of us, we can only judge on what we see.

This is a manager who can't spend big money well. Nearly all of his big money signings in his career have been failures. Especially strikers.

This is a manager who couldn't get 20 league goals a season out of a player if his life depended on it. Even when he was at Man Utd.

So I was not at all surprised to hear him talk about building things slowly… etc, etc, because that's the right thing to do? No. Because it's the right thing for him. He doesn't want the pressure of spending big and then there being an expectation that he cannot live up to.

I'm sorry but it's not 2002 and he's not 40. There's no time for a slow build up to becoming a solid mid table team with no prospect of a trophy. Newcastle, Villa and others have shown that some skilful recruitment and spending well in the right areas has you challenging. He's petrified of this being the expectation as he can't live with it.

Moyes's mentality pervading the football club once more. 29% win ratio so far and still all his pals in the media are back-slapping each other and themselves.

We take too many touches, play the safe pass (often poorly),
and don't have the pace to get around the outside, so the crosses we do manage to put in come from in front of the defence and are easier to defend.

It's a lazy excuse to blame Moyes. None of the super star managers who incidentally all queuing up to join Everton could do significantly better with this squad.

What is needed is clever recruitment this summer. I'm not talking the £300M we probably need to spend, but recruitment targeting players with pace, promise, a sell-on value and in the positions we need. We also should be looking for players who don't hide, take the responsibility, and try and make things happen.

If we don't recruit well, then we will be still be in a similar position next season, regardless if we still have Moyes or bring in Guardiola.

But we won the league in 1987 didn’t we.

We have competed through most of our history. Sad to see that you fall into the category of those with little or no expectation.

It's not been beaten out of me. I have no illusions we will do a Liverpool or Manchester United. Few have or will.

But we can and should be challenging like we have done for most of our history.

Not horseshit. It is what is happening and a explanation why things are not working out.The same old chestnut is that no manager could do anything with the squad.That may have been before, but we have new owners, a new regime, a new culture and finances. I think we are we entitled to expect different.

Moyes not only has to get to grips with the team, he has to a grip on the restructuring of the playing side of the Club and the demands and measurement the new regime will want.

There was always a danger with Moyes appointment that the existing regime in the face of change wanted Moyes. They pulled behind him and with some adjustment to Dyches team he was successful.But Moyes management of the team has regressed since and the team are not prepared as they have been.The pressure is off. Relegation had been avoided and the end of the season is near.

But preparation should on going for next season.What we have seen over the current matches is not preparation for next season.It isn't a framework to bring new players into.That is concerning.

Danny#80

In a low press Beto will only get the opportunity to run onto a forward pass.It is too negative and the support will not exist for his style of play.Beto coming deep is not a good idea.

The intensity of packet play as Tony talks about us needed. The present side hasn't got it.In the Ipswich game they were a yards off the play. Colin Harvey's Dog of War was based on it as Tony says, as well as Turkey.Another memorable side was Uruguay when Forlan played. The pack defending in midfield was the bases of their World Cup success.

Tommy#86

Moyes is going to go for as little change as possible. Many of the players will get new contracts and Moyes will try to bring in a few of his usual dependable players.Moyes has never handled a big budget and the PSR restrictions will suit him.

And the tactics on Saturday were not very good either. Massive spaces in the midfield in front of the CBs and no width in the attacking third. Playing inverted wingers doesn't work when your full backs are limited going forward.

As an aside, did anyone else notice the large number of stewards going into the match? Usually there's one between both turnstiles in the Top Balcony. On Saturday there was at least 7 behind both where I go in. It was actually difficult to get past them to the stairs.

I think we have many players that do have a ceiling on their heads and that Everton are without doubt the biggest club they'll ever play for.

However the bigger problem is that for too many years now the collective mindset at Everton Football Club is that it's all been too comfortable, the players are never pushed enough to strive to win.

It has felt now for too long that just staying up and getting 40 points is like some magical landmark.

Probably a mindest that was only not shared by Carlo Ancelotti and I'd push the boat here and say Roberto Martinez and Marco Silva (who should definitely have had more time)

Martinez did break down many barriers in that first season where we had a record Premier League points total and we actually had teams more worried about us than the way it usually is, which is us terrified of them.

Ancelotti had obviously won it all and probably by the end of his time here must have been wondering what the hell he was doing managing us.

But too often, there have been no standards, no expectations on the playing staff, just get to safety by April and they think that's it, job done everyone happy.

You haven't seen players at the likes of Bournemouth with that mentality or attitude, or Brighton just two examples.

At Everton the bar is set so low, it doesn't matter how good or shit a player is now anyway, because we have zero expectations to win anything anymore.

Until this changes, then I don't see any real tangible progress imminent sadly.

I don't think you could brand a midfield of Reid, Bracewell, Steven and Sheedy as dogs of anything tbh. They were class players, a superb unit and played with the intensity that Tony misses in both an attacking defensive sense.

Joe Royles midfield was nowhere near as talented, but they did play with an intensity, esp in breaking up play, that we are desperately devoid of.

The one thing that our last two trophy winning managers, had in common, was that both their teams played with a lot of aggression, and I would be surprised if there is not a football supporter in the land, that doesn’t want his team to play with aggression?

My honest opinion is that David Moyes, definitely lacks that inner-belief, that is naturally ingrained into to a genuine winner.

He has learned his trade, and he has learned to apply it well. He knows how to get results against a lot of teams, but his only victories against the bigger teams, have only really happened when he’s had home advantage.

I want him to succeed, I’m being honest when I say I’d like nothing more, but I have my reservations, for the reasons I explain above.

Whilst Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford (not only them), explored alternative ways of challenging the top tier, including smart recruitment of player's, and being prepared to take a chance on much younger 'foreign' managers, Everton were stuck in a time warp, with Blue Bill in particular, employing ex player's and fan favourites, to senior coaching positions.

Nepotism with a big N, and absolutely backward in it's execution and development of the club.

We need to, and will have to, be far cleverer in the transfer market in the summer. Until then, the jury remains out on Moyes. But what I do know, is that judging by the actions of TFG off the field so far, point to an organisation not prepared to accept second best.

Having spunked north of £800m to date, they will demand evidence of progress almost immediately from next August onwards. If it doesn't happen, expect changes fairly quickly.

Back to Brentford, and this is why I remain cautiously optimistic. They signed Yoane Wissa ( from french club Chatereux for £8.5m, 18 goals so far, and his team mate, Bryan Mbeumo from Troyes for £5.8m, another 18 goal haul, a total outlay of £14.3m it can be done.

Smart recruitment, is the way forward, without breaking the bank.

He allegedly said that Everton, have a lot of players on champions league money, without the pressure of having to try and qualify for the champions league!

I don’t know if this story is completely true but, it wouldn’t surprise me when you consider he decided to leave Everton, before coming back knowing that he would never unseat Pickford!

Moyes did a great job first time around, is the general conception, but he was one of the highest paid managers in Europe, and never got past the last sixteen in any European competition, and also never delivered us a trophy.

(Again) I hope he delivers this time around, but the squad he created over many years, last time around, definitely underachieved by not delivering any silverware, imo, and this never happened because they lacked ability, but more because they never had a genuine winning mentality (again, imo)

Moyes has won a trophy with a lesser squad of players (imo) since then, and I’m sure he wants to win for us Evertonians, even more than he wants to win for himself.🍀

You are right reference Joe Royle.I was thinking of Colin Harvey team and the FA Cup run.

@ Jerome. You put it concisely and took the words out of my mouth.

Moyes likes to shop in Aldi. Search for ages in the middle aisle and emerge with a reliable and great value for money piece of merchandise.

But if you sent him to Harrods he’d walk out with a tin of baked beans

That has always been the comfortable trend as you say.How many times nearing the end of the season have we seen a lack luster squad of players, even when faced with relegation only to do enough to survive.

This season safety was got earlier and Moyes like all the other Managers finds he has a half arsed squad.It is really down to the attitude and effort being put into preparation.It seems there is a limit to achievement, and extra work for other competitions ends in January.

If Everton in one competition can't maintain a consistent challenge till the end of the season, how are they going to show up for competitions as they start next season, including the start of the Premier League season.

It is a pipe dream that after holidays and a altered squad that suddenly a competitive framework is going to emerge in what remains of the Summer.

Moyes himself has even said this to the players, but we know the result.

Tommy #104

That's Moyes. No way is he going to bring in 9 players.He also won't put a transferred in up and coming players straight into the first team.He has already said that.

"Average players (and managers?) have the odd Good game,
Good players (and managers?)have the odd Average game"

And thus, in the manner of Newman & Baddiel's 'History Today'
...'That's your Everton Team that is"

Moyes, it's is said 'used to be able to spot a player'...though there are tales - how true nobody really knows - that with Arteta, Pienaar and Fellaini to name but 3, he had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of Dithering mode to actually sign them.

Anyway, let's see how we go this summer.

This time next season I expect us to be 9th or 10th, while I bemoan the fact that we should be 6th or 7th - if only Moyes would 'go for it' a bit more.

Yes this will be a welcomed vast improvement - but it shouldn't turn into a way of life.

Of course there are 'tales".

The word "fairy" springs to mind.

I don't blame any of us for pessimism after the last few years, but improvement is possible.

Stu @ 87, I agree this side lacks any pace down both flanks.

Clever recruitment is key this summer. That is why I am still conflicted on Liam Delap. I wonder if there is better value internationally.

Nail, hammer, head, Andrew,

It’s distressing at times to see what we have available and the times when someone creams themselves because one of our mid-table players - McNeil, for instance, or Garner – is fit again. They might be important for us but top ten players they are not. You do not go top-6 with players like McNeil or Garner.

MID-TABLE:

Virginia

Tarkowski

O’Brien

McNeil

Gueye

Garner?

Calvert-Lewin

Ndiaye

LOWER-TABLE:

Begovic

Patterson

Keane

Young

Mykolenko

Coleman

Mangala

Doucoure

Iroegbunam

Harrison

Alcaraz

Beto

Chermiti

Lindstrom

Broja

Some ‘lower’ lads have not yet had the time to show that they could be ‘mid-table’, but we have just two players, I think, who could start in say a top-eight team: Pickford and Branthwaite. Ndiaye is not close but he might be one day.

I have a sinking feeling that we will not see the $$$$$$$ from the Freakins that we need and so badly hope for. They have not really had a notable impact on Roma’s squad. They are in it for the money, I think, and the main aim is that we are steady in this league.

They will sell EFC probably sooner than we might think. Oh, my word, they know and love our history, don’t they, like that fella who sent us a welcome message in the winter and has hardly said a word since and this divisive NBA lad whose plazzy love for our traditions was cringeworthy and embarrassing. These Freakins put their ‘portfolio’, I heard a Yank call it, first well ahead of any one of its ‘franchises’.

The sheer number of players that we will need to become ‘contenders’ once again is formidable. It would be impossible to put us firmly on that road in a single window. But someone might whisper to TFG that more success on the pitch bumps up our commercial value.

The summer is their litmus paper test. It would be lovely if they prove me and many others wrong. I don’t like the distance, the silence, the lack of communication, the lack of class of Mr. Divisive from the NBA. And I don’t give a shit if someone on here tells us 'Guys, guys, guys, hey ho this is their modus operandi'. As if that somehow is some sort of reassurance. It aint. TFG make the last board – who all of us berated for their lack of communication – look like public orators.

Most, if not all, will have watched Howards Way, if not, it is compulsory educational viewing. I never tire of watching it, because it reminds me what Everton can and should be and takes me back to my teenage years.

A quote from Paul Bracewell on that documentary and that period sums up what we are debating.

“The best way to sum it up is with the film we made recently, Howard’s Way, about 35 years since that period.
“Everybody was on that film and everybody turned up at the showing. And after 35 years to get that [turnout] shows what sort of group of people it was.
“When I joined, they’d just won the FA Cup and if you talk to any club or manager, they’ll tell you that first one is the most difficult.
“After the FA Cup, we went on to win the Charity Shield and the rest is history.
"Once we’d had a taste of success, we wanted more.
"Day in day out, it was a fantastic team to play with and great lads as well.
"When you get that combination of people in the dressing room, it’s very very powerful.”

The importance of the collect of the team, not individuals. He also mentions that although they could play, if anyone wanted to mix it, they could mix it too. If anyone epitomised that, it was Peter Reid and his payback on Marwood for deliberately injuring Adrian Heath in the same match. More recently, think Tarkowski on Mac Alister in the derby. Full blooded aggression and a desire to beat the opponent to the ball.

If you listen to the stories of Colin Harvey and the words of the white Pele himself, he talks about giving 100% every day, not just on Saturday.

Sorry, I'm using it as an example, not thinking for one minute we are close to that right now, but we can be.

I suppose the point I'm getting to is that aggression and a winning mentality are crucial in football. Too many of our current players don't have that, and our manager has his limitations on both counts.

There is an old saying in football that I learned from a very young age and imparted onto the players I coached. Win your personal battles and earn the right to play football. That is very applicable to the last teams we had who won trophies.

Ohne Angst. Not as glamorous as the Spanish equivalent, but my German is better. Without fear.

The manager picks the team and gives the instructions as to how they approach a game. But once those players cross the line, it is down to them. As we have all done, if you're not the best, you will fight to show your opponent that you can match and better them. No-one, manager, player, supporters should go into any match fearing to lose. You play to win, even if it doesn't come off.

I take no pleasure when I hear the same type of mentality from fellow Evertonians. I sympathise with them. I can't be like that and it makes me sad to hear it, but the deep rooted mismanagement of the club over decades has created the wrong type of mentality at Everton. Fortunately, there are enough idiots like me still around who won't accept it and live by our motto.

On Sunday, we play Fulham. I want Moyes and the players to go out there with a positive mindset and win the game. We all want that. The travelling supporters will be there in force as always, wanting and expecting it. Show the same unwavering desire and commitment that they do.

Apologies. I'm getting into early match mode. I wish I still had it in me to be on the pitch, but these days, I'd get lifted for evading the stewards and putting a crunching tackle in early doors on the Fulham centre forward to let him know he's in a game and accused of assault. So I'll stay in the stands. I know my place!!

We will never be able to prove one way or another if Frank would’ve left Brentford to join Everton Football Club. You obviously think he wouldn’t have done. I think I he would have.

Unless anybody can state otherwise, he wasn’t offered the opportunity to make a decision on it anyway.

@107 Derek. Spot on Del. Those of us who’ll remember will recall that the permanent Arteta transfer only happened because Scott Parker went to Newcastle.

When afforded the chance to spend money, Moyes has always done it badly. Yakubu kind of worked for a little bit but injuries played their part. Despite that, he scored more league goals in a relegated Blackburn team a few years later than what Moyes could get out of him.

Look at his last couple of years of transfers at West Ham. Very questionable. There aren’t many of their signings there that I think would even get into this Everton team

We today are much further from winning the league in two years than we were in 1983. Far far further. This squad we have now is far far worse than the one that started the 1983-1984 season.

We have been an also ran since 1992 apart from two seasons.

I love your person on here Danny and I love Howard's Way, but Howard's Way is history - our brilliant history - and should be viewed as that not as some sort of template for our future. Howard's Way is 40 years ago and to put a team of that quality together now would cost us money that we do not have.

Howard's team was built on smart buying in lower leagues and across the border, swiping out-of-favour lads from Div-1, pouncing on shite Div-1 teams, with a couple of big buys.

It remains to be seen if we will at long last join the ranks of PL business and commercial and transfer savvy. If we do that with TFG we might well become future 'contenders'.

Like you, Danny, I pray every day that that happens sooner rather than later. But Howard's Way is a historical document stuffed with memories not future plans.

It's a reminder of who we once where in a long ago world and how very far we are from that now.

Respect the past, don't live in it. But it also serves as a benchmark.

As with any walk of life, a reminder of the baseline to what future generations should aspire to be. Times change, technology changes, the playing field changes. But the principles are broadly similar.

I think the point I always try to convey, Paul, is that I genuinely believe we can be there again. I'm realistic and experienced enough in life and football to understand it won't be on Saturday when we win. It won't be next season, despite the progress I expect to see.

But we can get there and you will be there too.

I'm just impatient and want us to stop wasting yet another season.

Yes, we have new business-minded owners and the fear of administration has evaporated, but as commented, will there be a fan board connection going forwards? I'm not seeing it yet.

The squad rebuild can't emulate the past, as great as we were historically, but that is the inspirational stuff needed to inject a competitive mentality, ingrained at every level, and take that on to a winning mentality as the squad bonds and developed.

Then of course there is the cost: a development strategy needs a budget, and there is the first hurdle; let's see how we jump that one and get the measure of Moyes 2.0 under the Friedkin team...

This time next year, I hope the narrative remains positive.

In other words, it wasn't Bongo that invented that style because we were doing it 40 years ago.

It might be the right model for improving this squad, with a focus internationally now for players with the right characteristics who are inexpensive.

We also had some good young players who came through the ranks in the 80s – Gary Stevens, Kevin Ratcliffe, Kevin Richardson. Focusing on building a better talent pipeline from the Academy is key.

However, there is no reason why we shouldn't compete for a domestic cup in the next 2-3 years. As Paul Bracewell says, winning the first one is the most difficult.

As for our new Owners, they need to turn up, speak up and put up. Friedkin doesn't do interviews? Then Marc Watts needs to be a lot more communicative.

Fans might be grateful now for the stability of the takeover, but TFG will get a rude awakening if they think they can use us as a commercial revenue generator and invest little in football operations.

The last owner, chairman and board were seen off by the fans due to their gross incompetence. The new owners will go the same way if they bring commercial competence but little else. Hopefully, they are learning the hard lessons at Roma and will adapt their approach here.

I still cringe at last week's words from our new-on-board divisive NBA fella. We are not a fucking LA Galaxy or Seattle Sounders 'franchise'. We have history, tradition, identity, and culture.

Phil @118, that's what I was talking about earlier. We've probably been doing Gegenpresse since we can remember, we just didn't have a German name for it.

If you watch the now grainy footage of "that" season changing match against Oxford United, which Adrian Heath is remembered for the goal, it is Peter Reid's pressing that forces the Oxford player into the mistake and attempted back pass that created the chance.

So Reid gets equal credit for me.

Roma are going well. Occupying a Europa place as it stands and still well in touch with Champions League qualification.

So, collective sigh, we are going to have to rely on what we dig up. I don't think TFG have ever had to deal with fan pressure that the world media used as a source for articles or AI-fueled developments.

This might be telling. An extract from a report on the BBC.

After the American group's takeover in 2020, Dan Friedkin, now Roma's president, said: "Our vision for the club and the team is to favour a sustainable and long-term investment approach rather than quick fixes."

They also appointed Ranieri, considered a safe pair of hands, and although Roma supporters are broadly happy with the job he's doing, many don't see him as long-term.

Sound familiar?

Personally, I expect another season of transition and Moyes, for all his limitations, is a good safeguard to have around with so many players out of contract and so many new faces required. I was against him being appointed but he's nothing if not steady.

I just hope we recruit with an eye on the future as he will probably be gone at the end of his current deal. "Don't hand Davey all the money and make sure there is a structured process around recruitment with other senior voices having a bigger say," would be my advice to TFG.

Mid-table and a good cup run somewhere is the best I can currently hope for with our current squad and available finance. It's where we are at the moment.

If we stabilise and bring in a more progressive manager at a later date, things may change, but it won't happen overnight.

Calvert-Lewin
Doucoure
Coleman
Young
Keane

Plus loanees returned:

Harrison
Lindstrom
Mangala
Broja

The only two who will get deals are Gueye and Alcaraz and you could make a good argument against not even doing that.

Let's hope our recruitment plans are well advanced as that is a serious amount of change which along with a change of ground comes with a lot of risk.

In a similar vein, I read an article about our '60s team playing ticca tacca football… where do you think Barca got the idea from?

I think you're in for a bit of a surprise with your forecasts.

"Of course the players have to take the blame for poor performances and results, but so does the manager. He's part of that team too, and sets them up to play how he wants them to."

Meet Steve # 82

"My opinion on Saturday was that Moyes got the selection and gameplan right, and the players could not maintain the required quality, intensity and confidence."

Who do you think will stay?

My expectations were through the roof with Carlo: James, Allan, Richarlison, Mina, Digne etc. He got us a piddling 9th.

My expectations with this current group are lower mid-table.

I don't just blame any manager for not getting past 14th with this group of mediocre players (based against their peers).

My point isn't just blaming the manager. I think I've repeatedly made that clear. He may be part of the current problem, but isn't the only problem.

It won't change my expectations for Everton Football Club. You shouldn't have to with yours.

Ian, Potter was disliked at Chelsea and crashed and burned. He's not done too well at West Ham. You can never tell, but my gut instinct was that he left a comfortable job at a well run provincial club and couldn't deliver when the expectation was higher. There's that word again.

The tactical and analytical aspects football are so sophisticated that teams have to be so flexible. There are armies of analysts and performance staff backing up the manager and fluctuations in game are par for the course.

As we went 2-0 up on Saturday, you could say Moyes initial tactics were spot on. But just as Ipswich adjusted (i thought they began to isolate our full backs and also the space in front of the back 4), we probably should have adjusted also.

In the second half most of our possession in the attacking third was in the width of the box, which made it easier to defend and slowed the play down.

I thought we were crying out for Ndiaye and Mcneil to get wider and stretch them. Ndiaye, especially, was pretty anonymous in the middle. I also thought that our play allowed them to break quicker in the wide areas, where we had no cover.

I would expect a modern coach to be a bit more flexible and react to opposition changes. Although tbf, Moyes, is a lot more flexible in his approach than the previous manager.

Personally, I think Everton should always be challenging for the European places.

I think that highlights quite how many of these up-and-coming managers make it or fail when they take on a club like us.

I can only think of Howe and Moyes who have taken a decent-sized club near the bottom to competiting within the Top 5 – and stay there for more than a season or two .

Maybe Redknapp, Potchetino, McNeil and even then the trophy cabinet was empty.

Competing and challenging for more and nearly winning more in-between those.

I've seen us win 5 of those trophies.I've seen us go close only to miss out on a further league title, 3 more FA Cups and the elusive League Cup. I won't mention Charity Shields, or semi-finals, which I've seen a few of. Or one of our greatest teams being denied the opportunity to play in Europe's top competition through no fault of our own. Who knows what should have been?

The most seasons and matches played in the top flight of English football (somehow in recent years), by more than a decade on Aston Villa and Liverpool.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to live by our motto. It's depressing the club hasn't done so for nearly 40 years, but it won't stop me believing we can get back there.

Maybe we could start by not selling our best players every time we get a decent one.

Difficult… but not impossible.

Like you, I'd rather we keep our best players.

It can be done if you sell one jewell in the crown rather than a car boot sale.

The Catholic in me feels dirty saying it, but our neighbours are a good example. Torres in his prime, "bity" Sanches, Coutinho. The latter of which they made and outrageous profit on. But they always reinvested and bought wisely.

It can be done.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want this for me. Okay, strictly not entirely true. I want it for younger generations who have had to live off the odd derby victory as their only source of "success". I have friends and family who can't forgive Everton for the last 40 years and denying their kids to witness what we have.

I genuinely hope that a new dawn is rising for that generation. That is what would mean more to me as I see those young kids, week-in & week-out.

On the subject of that European ban, I've written to LFC, The Echo, Granada news and North West Tonight, to ask what their plans are to commemorate the 40 year anniversary of the Heysel disaster.

So far I've received one reply, from Northwest Tonight. They said they will report on it if there's anything to report and did I have any connections? I suggested they contact Liverpool and Juventus.

As such, we could not be in better hands. I would back Moyes ahead of Ancelotti every day of the week to get this particular job done. Now, move us from 5th to 3rd? Forget it. But for where we are now, he's perfect.

In fairness, they always do, regardless. Branthwaite usually leading the way. The crowd have been very good to Moyes. Despite the reservations amongst many, they've got behind him and the team.

A far cry from the toxic reaction towards Benitez after the losses away to Brentford and Norwich, when they struggled to come near us. It was almost like they could feel the blue wave of fury.

Under Lampard, after two trips and defeats away to Bournemouth in 4 days, the supporters threw back shirts to the players.

Moyes has had none of that treatment.

Les, it still hurts me now. I won't even attempt to compare to how the friends and families of those 39 people felt, but from an Everton perspective, we had the carpet of optimism ripped from under us. I am convinced that all conquering team would have won the then European Cup.

I hope we're wrong, but I presume they will put a message up on their website. Nothing much else as we aren't supposed to talk about it. They and the city should mark that anniversary.

We won't know until the summer. Until then, it's anyone's guess.

Let's go back several years. Koeman had us at 7th, was lambasted by many for saying his aim was 'same as last year'. We 'won' that transfer by four people independently buying who they liked, seemingly without talking to each other. The one thing none of them did was buy the players we needed. We paid over the odds to secure these players when, in some cases, no-one else appeared to have concrete interest.

If I ever get frustrated at these owners for not 'splashing the cash' in the next couple of months, I'll think of those four clowns and how they hamstrung our club.

Stabilising the debt, staying in this league, bringing in a manager experienced in rebuilding clubs in our current position is far more ambitious than hiring expensive, ill-suited players and managers on a whim.

I don't think anyone else was in for him. Well played Swansea!!

Are you thinking it's going to be unlimited?

None of us do.

Equally, I thought that the manager got the selection and gameplan wrong against Chelsea!

To be clear, those four clowns were Kenwright, Walsh, Koeman and last in the queue but the man who enabled the other three to spend carefree with his money was Moshiri who knew little about football but didn't seem to get any advice off the other three — in fact I'm not sure who he bought.

Later on, Allardyce and Walsh spent about £50M on a centr- forward and winger and got little return for the money.

Who introduced Walsh to the club? A glorified scout from Leicester who was put in charge of most of these deals.

£25M, £50M, £75M, £100M net spend?

I don't think I was being too bold in declaring it's a 'limited transfer budget'. That can still stretch to quite a few quid. It's a wide definition.

No crystal ball here, but I expect some criticism next season if we don't kick on; opinionated fans will shout out if they aren't happy, it was ever thus...

As for squad turnover, it will be totally down to budget, we don't have a clue on that value and no-one in their right mind would announce what they have to spend.

So we can only speculate; most agree on who to keep, but as for incoming 🤔 lots of ideas floating around...

Every club's budget is limited, so to say it's definitely not unlimited is meaningless and without an estimation of figures a "limited budget" estimation remains, as I say, pointless.

If you mean a small budget compared to the top spenders, then that's something to compare against at least but... meh!

But that could still bring in quite a few players, especially if we sell, eg, Branthwaite.

You thought it!

It was a reminder that we will have to wheel and deal, and that in David Moyes we have one of the best wheeler-dealers out there.

Posting that seems pretty pointless to me.

Surely the only reason to object to such a wide definition was cos you felt it was somehow not the case, ie, unlimited?

Brian, I am the eternal hope, mate!!

We bought O'Brien and swapped Dobbin for the lad from Villa, brought Harrison back on loan with Lindstrom and Broja on a delayed deal. Alcaraz came in January with Armstrong going to Derby County on loan.

I think there will have to be a lot more business in the summer transfer season but will wait and see what we do to inspire us or get us rolling our eyes with some of them.

There was no governance under our last owner & chairman. Governance means saying no, sometimes taking unpopular decisions, going 'against the fans', making logical and businesslike decisions rather than pandering to the impatient.

That's an approach I would support, because I'm ambitious.

Lindstrom's injury didn't help but wasn't a big deal — to me anyway.

So, all-in-all, I think I got it about right. (Even if I do say so myself...)

Anyway, in the build up to Saturday until Michael puts up the pre-match stuff, here's something to lighten the mood.

Link

Forget bitter. We are proud.

A belated reply here, but I've only just read through this thread.

Anyway, the Gaelic name for Edinburgh is Dùn Èideann, which is anglicised as "Dunedin".

Yes, I think we were probably the worst run club in the Premier League but I felt some sympathy for Moshiri who I thought was taken advantage of by those around him.

Especially by Kenwright and even more so by Usmanov, whose money was supposedly behind the move to buy the club, but I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of that story.

We splashed over-the-odds on players because Everton was seen as a project and players needed to be convinced.

Pickford was a great signing but how much did we waste on absolute dross: Gbamin, Tosun, Bolasie, Walcott, Rondon, Maupay, Sandro, Kean, Keane, Delph, Gomes, Godfrey, Alli etc?

It worries me that we are being linked with Richarlison for £40M. I loved the guy and he was one of the few signings that worked but he's past it and we should move on.

There is this sentimental streak that runs through our club that clouds judgement. Bill Kenwright always let sentiment rule sense.

As much as I despise that lot across the park, the club comes first. They have an identity and a way of playing and their recruitment reflects that. I know they have far more resources but we seem to buy players on hunches and sentimental judgements.

It's a similar story with Calvert-Lewin. The lad is too unreliable and we should let him go and look to the likes of Delap. But the lack of suitors for Dom and the number of players we will need to recruit suggests to me that we will offer him a new contract.

Moyes always faired better when he spent less money. Hopefully he can do it again. It always puzzles me why the likes of Brighton and Brentford can get good players and build a good team but we can't.

Craig @168, not a lot to disagree with there. Your closing statement about Brighton and Brentford says a lot. It's called an effective scouting and recruitment network.

He's 27.

Surely Moyes won't go for that. Let him go to Saudi.

The issues are:

1. Injury. He could play less than 15 games a season for us.

2. Proportion of kitty. Most people seem to expect about a £50M net spend. Buying Richarlison robs us of kitty for other positions

3. The Moshiri effect. Buying someone about to turn 28 means you might get three injury hit seasons before the player leaves for free. £40M rapidly becomes £0 and there's no money to reinvest in a replacement.

Buy this sort of player on a free by all means (without reasonable wages) but not for £40M we don't have.

He missed too many games with a poor injury record.

I suppose Chermiti is not favored by Moyes but Beto could be a useful player if only he had a real class act beside him (à la Alan Shearer).

Without that, Beto will be unconsidered as the answer, as is Calvert-Lewin, who is a continual sick-note and only average on the ground. Delap of Ipswich would be worth a shot at the right price.

Everton proved they can score some decent goals now and again but, all too often, it falls on the defense to earn the points… and when they slip up, we lose the points.

Our problems are the lack of pace, goals and quality in nearly every other area of the pitch.

Our strikers don't get great service. If the strikers are missing a host of chances then, yes, bring another one in but we aren't.

We have very little quality out wide or guile through the middle.

Fill those gaps then look at the expensive bit up top.

I have been keeping track and you have just pipped Colin G with £100M on the nose. I think Sam Hoare was £50M and I was £30M (which now seems a bit low and I'll go for a more optimistic £75M now if I'm allowed to change my first answer).

As for the owners. I don’t need to hear anything from them. I’m happy for them to do their talking by way of results and achieving things. Actions speak louder than words. They came in and gave Dyche the bullet in an decisive effort to make things better. There wasn’t much talking or announcing going on around that process. And there didn’t need to be

Richarlison has a good shot, but poor technique. Calvert Lewin, Doucoure and Harrison have poor technique.Good technique in midfield is critical, retaining and recovering possession and passing interchange.Everton are poor at this.Gana is the only player up to standard for his role.Moyes is bewildered by errors, but the errors were caused by the pressure resulting from his tactics and player selection.He dropped Doucoure and Harrison without a safety net.He adopted Nidaye and McNeill as inverted wingers, which is to give forwards for opportunity to score, but Dyche had Walker and Myochenko as inverted wingers which is more defensive, but both Managers left the Centre Forward redundant in doing so.I agree that lack of pace at the back is a problem it exposes defenders and if they are two deep it gives the opposition more space to support a attack. It is actually doing a forward lines job for them to sit deep.A ineffective attack does a defensive lines job as well.

What it is able is balance and Moyes is already struggling, before he gets to the transfer window.He could buy the most expensive forward in the Premier League, but if he doesn't get the team balanced and comfortable in adopted to change of tactics during a game it would have little effect.He also needs to get them working harder and more effective at Finch Farm. Something they have got away with for years.

You've summarised the conundrum of playing counter attacking/negative football with players with low technique vs playing a moreprogressive/attacking game well.

The lack of quality in the central midfield is worrying. Gana's workrate is huge, but his on the ball quality is pretty poor.

Garner is a neat and tidy footballer. A bit light weight for my tastes, he does get swept a side when sides counter and can go missing. He's had his injuries,but he's going to need to step it up massively to show he's a top 8 central midfielder, rather than a bottom 8 player. I can't see it.

The issue is that class usually costs. Gibbs White, Elliot Anderson, Tonali, Joelinton, Guimares, Rice, Martin Ødegaard, mcallistair, Szoboszlai have all cost significant sums.

Getting to compete with involve significant outlays on key areas of the pitch - including two central midfielders, a right winger and a striker, plus full backs.

The days of buying Reid, Gray, Sheedy, mountfield etc for a packet of Rizlas is over. The game to compete is about finance, and you need about £200m plus to drag this team upto Newcastle standards.

Does this mean there is a genuine malaise, something Jerome, often alludes to? Or is it because the squad is shite?

I personally think he's been good for us since returning from injury.

The only point I wouldn't agree with is the lightweight thing. He may appear physically slight, but he certainly isn't shy of putting in a tackle or 50-50 challenge. Looks can be deceiving as they say.

Did we really pull away though or were the bottom three always destined to disappear in everyone elses rear view mirror ?

I was roundly shouted down on here for saying those calling for Moyes were pressing the panic button without looking at the bigger picture. I said repeatedly that neither Ipswich Southampton or Leicester would reach thirty points...Now I'll be surprised if any of them get past 25.

The gap is widening every year and if I was to predict an absolute "knocking bet". I would say the three clubs promoted this season will go straight back down next season.

Still. The panic people did panic and we are stuck with careful Davey for the foreseeable future

One stat is that around 50% of games have the same result as the previous season. But each week I add the points (and goals) from the matches still to happen to the current table.

On that basis - the highest point from a relegation team was Ipswich at the turn of the year when they beat Chelsea. 19 games gone (halfway) and they were 7 points up on Burnley = 31 points.
Following week, we sacked Dyche as we sat on 40 points, which 8 worse than last year (we had a deduction of 8). Chances of us ending on 32 = -8 1st half + -8 2nd half? Your guess is as good as mine. Chance of Ipswich picking up another 7 points in the 2nd half = 38 points? Not a clue.

Actual - we have picked up 4 points more than last season in the 16 games the DM has been in charge, Ipswich have lost 3.

But what I do know is that the new manager bounce did actually surprise a lot of people on here by better performances not just better results. However, I think a combination of team selection and trying to see who should be here in 25/26, injuries (Mangala, DCL, Lindstrøm, Ndiaye and finally Tarkowski) plus the do we need to try as we are safe has meant that early enthusiastic and "exciting" (at least in comparison to Dyche) performances have become just a memory.

I agree regarding Gana.As a defensive midfielder he has the best stats in the Premier League, but weak at passing and interplay..This is not helped by poor interplay by those around him and his tendency to attempt long. passes.I suppose when he makes a deep saving tackle Doucoure who probably lost the ball is too far forward. Iroegbunam comes across as a hang about player rather than being effective.Garner has good technique, but has poor awareness.Alcartz problem is he is only intermittently on the pitch.

I doubt anyone can tell me what the effective purpose of Everton's midfield is. Attempting such a definition breaks down as the opposition often regain possession and simply walk through the centre.Since Moyes's bounce a through ball is a rarity and attack through the centre has fissadled out.Moyses inverted wingers are not overlapping on instruction.This all has a knock on effect on forwards and defence even when you exclude errors.Trying to change tactics to recover a game looks better,but has been ineffective.

The grateful draw says it all.There is something missing to be able to win a game.Moyes having a inferiority Complex against what he perceives as top sides doesn't help.

Poorer teams do help Everton's table position as pointed has been by Colin and Phil out and Everton often disappoint when they play them.

There just seems to be a lack of a competitive edge about to he team.Staying in the Premiership is job done , which is out of sync with Evertonian ambitions.

Gueye is one of our best players. Hopefully he will be starting for us next season. James Garner however I think does not live up to the common perception of him as a playmaker of sorts, his passing stats are very unremarkable. He's a solid pro and a good squad player who can potentially fill in a few positions but I believe a new and more able CM alongside Gueye is right up there with RB and RW as key positions to improve this summer (unless Moyes is going to give Harrison Armstrong a real shot).

For the here and now, Garner is good enough, but we do need depth in the midfield. I wouldn't call him a playmaker, but he does have an eye for a forward pass if it's on.

Everton need a player maker and then need to develop a interplaying midfield trio.

Ancelotti could change tactics three times in a game, but even he got exasperated, by motivation and effort.For me his individual coaching of player stood out, but getting player consistency and continuous development even he found a problem. In fairness Dyche did try to coach individually and stats proved he was making headway.But the players faded on him as well.

I dread gaps between matches, especially international breaks which seem to allow a slacking off in individual player objectives.Players seem to have a first day back attitude after such breaks.

Finch Farm is not working and the structures that have been allowed to build up make it difficult to change the Culture.

I can't see TFG allowing that to continues. The measurements and reporting they put in place will demand change. In their wider organisation they would be on to that every working hour.

I do believe that Moyes 's exaggeration is because he knows questions will be asked.Having no tactical answers he off course will blame the players.I don't think there will be much road in that with TFG ,.They will have all the facts ,analysed to death.

Your last paragraph takes us back to what we've done to death. I hope the manager gets the backing he needs and surprises a few, myself included. I want us to succeed no matter who is running the first team. But I agree, I think these new owners will be impatient to see results if they invest. Maybe not as impatient as me, but my gut feeling is that they won't mess around if it's not going well.

But the whole lot is underperforming and Managers have come and gone.But Staff are still in positions looking forward to their Summer break and coming back to a Premier League Club.We just get a half arsed performance like last Saturday. The Manager is bewildered.What does he think we can do about it? He needs to get his finger out and tell a few more in Everton to do the same.

I am here wondering what Everton is going to turn up for the Southampton game????

If having the honour to be in the last Everton team to represent our club at Goodison Park isn't motivation enough, then words fail me.

Our stadium has witnessed the likes of Pele and Eusebio. It has been graced by the best players we have witnessed. Most importantly it has been a place of worship for generations of supporters. The younger ones who keep going, my generation and our forefathers.

Our club. Our stadium. They will walk on the pitch when thousand won't get in or near the ground. They shouldn't even need a team talk.

I'd be happy to deliver that, but my hay fever might kick in and I'd be relieved of my duty.

Did we get in on the DFS new year sale ?

Thanks Jerome!

My eldest is 12 and has seen all of the shite since birth and since he’s been going aged 5 or 6.
I want to him to witness the final game at my expense.

I was aged 4 to 7 when during the 80s. I vaguely remember those glory days.
I was 14 in 1995 to witness the fa cup win,
I’ll hold on to those memories and every other that I’ve witnessed at Goodison.

But new ones needed creating now.
It’s our time.
We deserve it.

The players don’t need motivation.
Thousands of us that are there or near by are depending on them.
All ages.

I’ll take my place with the rest of the fans in the city centre or around the ground.
I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else.

The city will be blue.

Don’t let us down, Everton.

Young.

Early in the morning. .

Thanks for pointing out.

'Couches'.

On the day Moyes arrived back at Finch Farm he was surprised by the number of staff and couches in Physiotherapy.

I hate it when you do that. 😕