Goodison Park welcomed back James Beattie, who had been drafted in to the Blackpool team over the January transfer window, but his team arrived on a poor run of eight consecutive defeats. Everton were unchanged despite the return of leading scorer Tim Cahill after missing six Everton games at a crucial stage of the season due to the ridiculously timed Asian Cup that his Socceroos ultimately failed to win.
It was a very bright start for Everton, creating numerous chances in the early stages, with Heitinga, Rodwell, Distin and Fellaini all going close. A superb move down the left and a brilliant shimmy by Bily allowed him to pick out Louis Saha near the penalty spot and it was a glorious chance the Frenchman could not miss, a clinical finish to set the Blues hopefully on their way after 20 mins.
Rodwelll looked to benefit from an awful Blackpool throw-in, skipping into the Blackpool area and flicking the ball up stylishly over a defender for a shot but then completley miss-kicking as the goal gaped. A sweeping move let Coleman release Saha who returned the favour down the right as Everton looked to attack the nervy Blackpool defence, but it only won a corner.
Billy played a lovely littled chipped ball forward to Saha but the Frenchman could not control it and was crowded out. A bad bounce at the other end rolled off Distin's arm and was deemed handball but the wall did enough to block Adam's kick; however, from the corner, Abbot clipped the ball onto the post, from where it ran behind Howard along the line to Baines on the far post, who had a simple task to clear but clipped the ball at the incoming Baptiste and it rebounded into the net. Nothing is ever simple with Everton!
But Everton deservedly went ahead through Saha moments later when Coleman fought his way past Carney and pushed the ball into Saha who clipped it beautifully just inside the post but Referee Kevin Friend had decided Carney's attentions on Coleman merited a free-kick to Everton, calling the game back and criminally not playing a clear advantage after Carney had grappled Coleman, much to the huge frustration of crowd, players... everyone. Baines put the free-kick woefully high to add insult to injury.
Another beautifully crafted piece of football involving Baines and Bily down the left was well worthy of a goal but there was no-one on the far post to benefit from Bily's exquisite chip. Half-time and massive jeers for another useless referee.
Some simple beautiful football after the break, an incisive pass from deep by the excellent Rodwell to release Baines, who's cross was perfectly weighted for Saha to walk the ball into the Gwladys Street net for an excellent second goal, that should have been his hat-trick. Bily should have done better a few minutes later when a lovely touch on by Saha set him up but he could not lift it past Rachubka. Baines then shot wide.
Blackpool had a spell of free-kicks and corners as they attacked and tried to get Beattie in for the equalizer, with Puncheon running in dangerously from the right, but the Blues defence held firm and Saha won a free-kick that was taken quickly and got Rodwell in a superb position but his deft clip bobbled the wrong side of the post.
A dreadful piece of play from Everton eventually allowed Blackpool back into it. Coleman at fault for playing the ball back slopppily; Heitinga at fault for a feeble challenge, and from there it was Keystone Cops stuff that saw Beattie's cross converted on the far side by Puncheon. At the other end, a great Fellaini shot was cleared off the line. With a third of the game left, this surely could not end as another draw? No, said, Blackpool, who broke at speed and tore through the Everton 'defence', Puncheon smashing his shot off the bar and there was Adam to head the rebound into the empty net. Everton 2 - 3 Blackpool!!!
Another beautiful Everton move looked to be finished with Fellaini scoring but Baines had overun it and gotten himself offside.
An amazing moment when Rachubka tried to dribble out of his area, Rodwell got the ball and lobbed a perfect shot over the stranded goalkeeper that was all but in the back of the net until Evatt made an absolutely incredible recovery to scoop the ball away off the line for a corner as he ended up a crumpled heap in the corner of the Blackpool net.
Everton had played some of their absolutey most absorbing football in ages, yet were behind, and the all-too frequently dithering Moyes acted decisively for once, make some crucial changes: Cahill and Beckford on for Bily and Rodwell ? two of the players who had played key contributions to Everton's excellent display, but who arguably tend to fade. A huge gamble by Moyes in any event... Holloway swapped out Puncheon for Keith Edwards, a former member of the Everton Youth Academy.
Everton piled on the pressure, and a sequence of corners saw Louis Saha finally get his hat-trick, in lots of space at the far post, benefitting from the presence of Beckford causing havoc in fornt of him. 3-3 and everything to play for... a tremendous atmosphere and a tremendous game of football at Goodison Park.
Arteta overplayed a throughball that should have put Fellaini in on goal, but the go-ahead goal did come, and what a fantastic, fantastic finish to a brilliant ball from Baines it was, a beautifully deft touch By Beckford beating defender and goalkeeper to direct it past Rabchka, to the sheer dellierium of the Goodison faithful. 4-3, and an Everton game for once truly worthy of the adjectives "incredilble, unbelievable".
Blackpool pushed back, but Fellaini released Saha and the star man had a determined and pacey run-in on goal and a brilliant finish with the outside of his foot to make it five. Fantastic stuff. Four goals for Saha was enough for David Moyes, who pulled him off to tremendous adulation. Everton played out only their fourth home win of the season, a truly incredible, unbelievable game!!!
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:06:16
Well done, Blues.
2 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:05:03
3 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:09:19
4 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:09:50
5 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:06:55
There should be some concern about 2 of the goals conceded (first one was just a fluke) with Distin choosing the dragback for the 2nd and Heitinga out of character for the 3rd. If I'm being generous I'd say that both were showing the sort of confidence we're asking for - choosing to retain the ball and attack rather than simply lump it to be safe.
So that's Saha at his best?!!! Fellaini was exceptional, and hopefully Bily and Baines can kick on from there as they really started to understand what the other was doing. Even simple things like Bily dragging the fullback inside to leave room for Baines.
Very enjoyable! We've deserved a win like that!
6 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:10:06
7 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:13:34
8 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:12:32
9 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:13:11
10 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:20:12
11 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:22:26
12 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:21:11
Great character shown by the lads when we were 3-2 down. Especially with the injustice of our disallowed goal which could have been allowed to affect our performance.
Great to see Saha finally hitting some form ? vindicates Moyes sticking with him when out of form. Definitely the best game I've seen from Bily in a blue shirt, hopefully he's finally starting to settle down and make the left his own. Big Fella brilliant as always.
13 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:21:46
14 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:25:16
I still believe we're on the threshold of something positive and, despite our frustrating lack of progress so far, have much to look forward to and many positives to anticipate.
However, we'll doubtless check back later and find all the usual suspects moaning about conceding three, taking Rodwell & Bily off, not bringing subs on earlier, it was 'only' Blackpool etc etc etc.
Anyway, while there's still an optimistic tone prevailing, has anyone noticed that Beckford is quite a good finisher?
Virtually every goal he's scored (including a great header in the pre-season friendly against Everton Chile), has bordered on the spectacular. If he starts scoring taps-ins too, what an acquisition he will prove to be.
For all that David Moyes is lambasted by some on here (although not many off here), his talent for sniffing out a bargain is verging on legendary.
15 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:27:38
The strikers rescued what was a bad defensive performance. Still it's nice to win for a change. Wonder what the hype over Suarez would have been like if he'd had even one of those finishes the other night, never mind his near open goal miss, would never have heard the end of it.
16 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:34:54
17 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:37:59
18 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:40:33
He'll go to pay the mortgages not a rebuild.
19 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:33:03
Credit to DM for not throwing Jags on too early today. I thought he got the subs right on. Bily finally looks to be settling in on the left and Felli is looking more and more to be worth that £15M, I just hope we can keep him over the summer.
20 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:44:13
Great to see the strikers score 5 and even better to be able to tell my oldest boy (4) that we scored 5 today.
21 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:40:34
Great game lets kick on win our next game we could be 8th.
22 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:49:11
23 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:02:59
24 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:54:22
25 Posted 05/02/2011 at 17:59:37
Would it be possible for Moyes to have a spat with Wenger every week.
I think this is what caused the inspiration we saw today.
More of the same please.
26 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:07:02
Matteo, Berbatov's 5 for United vs Blackburn were also good but he cost 30MM. Saha is a real gem though and if he can just stay fit.
27 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:18:26
28 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:23:33
Wonder if Arsehole Whinger saw those four Newcastle goals as he seems to have a problem missing the obvious.
29 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:05:51
30 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:26:03
Blackpool deserve huge credit for the way they have a go at teams and I hope they stay up. The more North West teams in the Premier League the better.
Our extra class told in the end and I thought Fellaini was our best player, despite Louis 4 goals.
31 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:33:24
32 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:33:12
33 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:20:15
While Saha is going to get all the headlines deservedly, but my impression is that Beckford was crucial to our win. He is a great prospect, always dangerous and always under pressure to produce. He came from the third division and he should be given a chance to show his ability. Moyes's treatment could have ruined his confidence, but he is still producing excellent performances every time he enters the pitch. He needs trust from his Manager and he will be a great player.
34 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:21:25
35 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:35:34
I am one of Moyes' biggest doubters on here, but I'll give him credit for today. He got it right.
Concerns definitely about the defence, and why we went to sleep when up 2-1 (a score I never thought would win it), but as someone has already pointed out, it doesn't matter how many you concede as long as you score more!
The usual applies ? why can't Moyes get his tactics right more often ? but today isn't the day to bring it all up. I, for one, am just enjoying it for the day. My mate is a city fan and keeps talking up Tevez. I have one word for him today ? Saha!
36 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:41:26
37 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:42:01
38 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:53:13
The game against Westham i'm pretty sure Saha got two and the other was by Yobo.
39 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:52:46
Who said Saha was finished?? Just needed more bloody support up front to get the best out of him. Thank fook for the points as it's getting really tasty at the bottom... come on, Wolves!!!
40 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:50:41
41 Posted 05/02/2011 at 18:47:31
One negative. I will personally drive Heitinga back to Holland after that wussy tackle that led to Blackpool's second goal. Hard man? Don't make me laugh! Jags back next week.
42 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:33:42
WELL DONE BOYS!!!!
A learning experience for me:
a) We need to score 5 and win by a 2 goal margin for Michael Kenrick to write a positive report about us. Good read though Michael.
b) Are you there Ciaran McGlone? Remember our close season debate about our "4th choice striker" (erm..... 2nd choice like I said), doff your cap to him today.
And as for Dick Anderson when 3-2 down....! Ho hum.
43 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:40:39
44 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:06:51
Awesome goal by Beckford.
How good was that Puncheon lad for Blackpool? Had Baines in knots at one point. And I'll be extremely disappointed in the Blackpool fans if they haven't already nicknamed him "Judy".
45 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:45:28
46 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:52:10
47 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:46:19
Simon I agree, there is no way Moyes has lost the majority of Everton fans, I don't know anyone who wants rid of Moyes. It's the loud minority as opposed to the usualy quiet majority who have too much to say and talk a lot of bollocks.
48 Posted 05/02/2011 at 20:07:41
49 Posted 05/02/2011 at 20:08:28
50 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:45:20
Why does he insist on everybody back for corners? The number of times we clear corners only to see it coming back for a second phase attack is infuriating! An out ball gives the defender something to think about if an attacker is in the vicinity, with no one arround he simply starts another attack via the long ball or if he's any good a simple wide ball. It's not rocket science Moyes.
Why bring Saha off with 12 minutes remaining when he's on fire? let's win 6-3, instead of allowing the opposition to stop worrying about a potent forward and start playing for a possible grandstand finish. Did not happen I know, but why take the chance for the sake of a standing ovation? It's not like he was knackered, he ran the whole defence for his last goal 3 minutes previously!
Just a couple of negatives from an otherwise vital win, and a good effort from most of the team.
51 Posted 05/02/2011 at 20:13:21
What game were you watching.
We didn't play 442 until Cahill came on.
How wrong you were.
52 Posted 05/02/2011 at 20:15:04
You can hardly blame Felli for those 3 goals today. He was clearly the best player on the field along with Saha.
53 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:58:24
54 Posted 05/02/2011 at 20:18:29
55 Posted 05/02/2011 at 20:20:46
"MOTD tonight might be a "keeper""
56 Posted 05/02/2011 at 20:41:08
Read it again, the point is about crowds....not Moyes being Hitler.
I might not rate him but even I'd draw the line at calling him a dictator involved in ethnic cleansing.
57 Posted 05/02/2011 at 19:40:57
58 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:23:49
59 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:21:00
"..Just like I was 100% certain we would lose against Arsenal when we were 1-0 up when Osman jogged onto the field, I was 100% certain we would beat Blackpool when we were 3-2 down".
Ladbrokes must cack themselves when you walk in.
I imagine you probably have to wear false beards and stuff to get a bet on?
By the way, can you be more specific about exactly how much is 'too much' re "the moaners normally have too much to say" or did you just mean it the the usual way (ie: anyone who disagrees with me has too much to say)
60 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:33:31
#27 "Slowly get over the loss of Peanuts"?? Yes, we miss his goals and assists so dearly. Oh no? Oh well, then we obviously miss the silent contribution he made to all of the two wins this season he was on the pitch the for (I think he played 16 or 17 for us? With us winning 6 from 24 in total). Overrated mercenary.
61 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:42:16
100% is 100% Eugene, means rightly or wrongly, convinced. Let it roll.
62 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:43:09
As for the moaners who complain about Moyes and want rid, none of them can come up with a realistic replacement. Not to mention what his peers think about him who are a lot more clued up than than some of the people who come on here.
I know Moyes isn't perfect which is why I have been moaning myself about him playing Osman but there are a lot more reason why he needs to stay at Everton.
63 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:53:00
64 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:54:31
65 Posted 05/02/2011 at 21:53:55
"none of them can come up with a realistic replacement. Not to mention what his peers think abouit him who are a lot more clued up than than some of the people who come on here"
Sorry but... bollocks.
How EXACTLY are his peers more clued up?
If it's a choice of them (who watch highlights of Everton two or three times a year) and form their opinions based on how liberal Kenwright is with the Champers. Or the Everton-obsessed on TW who watch most games and follow the fortunes of the club EVERY day of their lives, I know who I'll trust.
I say fuck his peers (and fuck the 'experts' like Lawro and Prentice).
We won today and I'm made up... but don't get carried away.
We beat Blackpool... at home... and conceded 3.
(nb: at 3-2, even the Amazing Kreskin couldn't have been sure of the result).
To many like me, right now, almost anyone would appeals more than Moyes. >You say no one can come up with a realistic replacement? Sorry but again, bollocks.
They might not come up with a replacement YOU accept, but if Moyes is your man, you'll certainly find fault in any replacement no matter who people suggest ("Martin Jol? Wanker, Holloway, idiot" etc)
But lists have been printed on TW of alternative managers and some of them I'd have swapped with Moyes in an instant. Not because I think they're all miles better, but because I think Moyes is out of ideas.
I've NEVER slagged 'the man', but I think he lacks imagination and if you offered me a swap for Holloway now, I'd take it, just to freshen the place up (nb: and I think Holloway is a goon)
66 Posted 05/02/2011 at 22:26:22
Fellaini, great as usual, Arteta better than he has been. Saha gives us all hope for Chelsea away.
Distin was poor, but had been steady all season. But Heitinga...... I feel a fool because I thought he was a good player but now realise he is poor and a coward. Jags for me should be playing.
67 Posted 05/02/2011 at 22:30:04
Perhaps I'm wrong but I think a lot of people refuse to see Moyes is not right man for us because of his qualities and fact we don't want to turn on someone who we consider one of us, an evertonian
68 Posted 05/02/2011 at 22:36:20
This is how it works: Evertonians come on here to share their views and opinions... as do you. If you have no respect for that, then fine. Just let me know, okay, and I can provide a solution.
69 Posted 05/02/2011 at 22:57:53
I thought a load of our players had amazing passages of play: Rodwell, Arteta, Coleman.
We were awful defensively, but I have to say that was the most entertaining Everton match I've seen all season.
We obviously need to work on our defense, but when our winds up we are an absolutely amazing team to watch now. Lots of amazing passing are really inventive stuff.
And I thought Moyes' squad selection and subs were excellent this time.
70 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:16:12
Any who, Bily is playing like he always should have done, and Saha's the man. Lovely.
71 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:15:30
However, we do need another striker as King Louis is getting on (he had a wonderful game today but long term we need a striker in their mid 20's) and, judging from today, a centre back. Heitenga was utterly culpable for the second goal, keeps making comments about going elsewhere so sell him for a big fee in the summer.
Pienaar meanwhile started on the bench today. Glad he made his decision to leave based purely on "footballing reasons".
72 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:42:29
Was going mental with BBC updates when we went 3-2 down! Just seen MOTD Very nice.
Agree with Andrew. Fella is unsellable.
If we need to raise funds let Arteta, Heitinga and maybe even Rodders go if the administrators are closing in but not the big Fella. Please.
73 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:23:53
I?ll tell you how his peers are more clued up; I?m not talking about Lawro and Prentice, I?m talking about the managers who have voted for him to win the manager of the season award 3 times. The people that do the job on a day to day basis and know what is involved in managing a team at the highest level.
Yes you probably watch a lot more of Everton than they do, but I bet they watch a lot more football than you. What you don?t seem to appreciate is there are other teams up and down the land who have sites just like this. I bet if you look at Man Utd forums SAF is taking a bashing tonight and Wenger and Harry Redknapp after the Fulham game. Does that mean they should be sacked? Or do you look at the bigger picture and think realistically who could do better in the circumstances?
I?ve seen lots of these list over the years of managers and nearly all have had their chance in the prem since and haven?t done much. It was Martinez last season and Holloway this, but time and time again Moyes finishes above them. What has Holloway done exactly? He?s done no better than George Burley with Ipswich a few seasons back when he finished 4th or 5th, A one season wonder. Even Phill Brown was probably doing better at this stage than Holloway with Hull a couple seasons ago until the 2nd part of the season when it went tits up. It looks as though Holloway could be going on a similar run of defeats, but no ? you want to swap him for Moyes.
74 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:49:10
Off to Mother's Irish Pub in Gainesville and miss the first five minutes but see 90 minutes of one of the most entertaining games I've had the pleasure of viewing.
Just absolutely fantastic! Father and Son off on a weekend of soccer catching the Blues in an absolutely scintilating match....
I live for moments like this.
I'm over the moon at the moment!
75 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:51:27
76 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:37:58
Still, it was an exiting game and some really excellent performances today. Fellaini was magnificent, Saha too. (He gave a great centre forward's display today.) Jack Rodwell played really well, some excellent searching balls from midfield and Seamus Coleman was again full of running and enthusiasm. A great finish to an exiting match and I hope nobody underrates the effect that Beckford had on the outcome. A good day for all Evertonians.
But don't get carried away. "One Swallow" and all that. If we carry on frightening teams to death, then we might be getting somewhere... let's wait and see.
As it is, I'm worried that this game allows that bloody charlatan Kenwright to get on the box with his Cheshire Cat grin and claim some sort of credit for today's display.
IMHO if he doesn't sell this club, we are well and truly fecked.
Good report though! :@)
77 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:49:52
I'll give Jonny the benefit of the doubt cause I think his class will show through in the end, we look a much better footballing side with him as opposed to Jags (I think Moyes will be having a wee word in his ear about the half hearted tackles)
As already mentioned above the big Fella was immense, as was Saha and Coleman had a good game too.
78 Posted 05/02/2011 at 23:20:27
Bily is an obviously skillful player but he certainly lacks pace as we all know, but he can make others play, and that's very important You don't win by toil alone.
Heitinga ? oh my! I'm lost for words. Bring back the Jag!
79 Posted 06/02/2011 at 00:46:45
80 Posted 06/02/2011 at 01:07:45
"Not because I think they're all miles better, but because I think Moyes is out of ideas. I've NEVER slagged 'the man', but I think he lacks imagination and if you offered me a swap for Holloway now, I'd take it, just to freshen the place up (nb: and I think Holloway is a goon)".
Fresh thinking, fresh ideas and something new is needed.
Moyes has (for the most part) done his best and probably is doing his best and...we're going backwards.
NOTHING you, me, or anyone else says is going to develop imagination in Moyes.
Consequently the (imo) required fresh ideas needed has to come from elsewhere.
I say (as long as it's not Rafa) bring it/him (her?) on.
81 Posted 06/02/2011 at 00:44:14
Defensively, we still look as solid as a 76-year-old's erection and Heitinga, despite his distribution and fake fist-pumping passion for the cause, is never going to be the type to truly put his body on the line. I for one will never forget his embarrassing shit me kecks, jump out the way and feign injury cover-up in the first home game of this season v Wolves. Despite his patchy form this season, I'd much rather rely on Jagielka when our backs are against the wall.
Anyway, I'm pished, delighted with the win and the only thing to put a dampener on the occasion was that some deluded fat lass took a shine to me on the train home, started stroking my leg like she was a stunningly seductive temptress irresistible to any man, and shouted at the top of her voice that I was a "gay Everton twat" when I told her I didn't like big birds!
82 Posted 06/02/2011 at 00:48:36
On the Moyes argument, for the people who praise him no matter what he does, tell me if he was who you would have picked when Walter Smith was so awful... Just because we can't all agree on who should take over in place of Moyes does not mean that he should stay. As someone mentioned, it'd be good just to have a change to see if we could kick on to the next level.
83 Posted 06/02/2011 at 01:30:48
But I agree. Get Jags back in. He's more committed, taller and better in the air. Yes, he does hoof it but he never shies from a challenge and is tall enough to get a header in thus allowing Fellaini more space.
84 Posted 06/02/2011 at 01:21:56
You are missing the whole point, there is nothing Moyes, Holloway, Jol, Martinez, Di Matteo, Coyle or anyone else you want to mention could do. Not that they would come to Everton but you could get Mourinho, Wenger and Ferguson in as manager of Everton and they are not going to win the league if they don't have a penny to spend to improve the squad. It doesn't matter how much imagination a manager has, results will not improve so dramatically that we will challenge for the league.
The style of play might change and there might be a short-term response from the players but you can't get blood out of a stone... meaning you won't make Osman turn into Messi because your name is Pep Guardiola.
You can't say we are going backwards until we see where we finish at the end of the season; if we finish out the top 10, fair enough... but even then it would be more to do with teams like Man City, Spurs etc improving by spending millions on top draw players while Moyes continues with what he's got , and if anything, losing players.
85 Posted 06/02/2011 at 01:36:46
86 Posted 06/02/2011 at 01:39:33
87 Posted 06/02/2011 at 01:37:18
Moyes has proved time and time again that he is pound for pound the best manager in the league, he has proved overall that season after season he gets more from his players than anyone else.
His signings have been amongst the best in the league over the past 9 years.
For every Bolton and Spurs that seem to have improved due to change of management there is a Charlton and Newcastle that have been relegated because they thought a change of manager would take them to the next level.
Nobody that we could realistically attract has proved they have what it takes to take Everton to the "next level".
88 Posted 06/02/2011 at 01:53:13
89 Posted 06/02/2011 at 02:58:36
And, Ian, past past past. You guys always point to the past when defending Moyes. What about the now? 6 wins by mid-February? What a great job he's doing.
I really didn't want to get into the Moyes debate on a day where we should just be stoked for the team and in particular Saha for his great return, but you guys brought it on before any of us said anything against the Ginger Twat.
90 Posted 06/02/2011 at 03:48:37
91 Posted 06/02/2011 at 09:02:04
You think Moyes is the best manager in the league? I hope it isn't true, but you sound as if you live a bit of a dreary life.
92 Posted 06/02/2011 at 08:37:06
Max/Albert ? Very childish boys.. very funny though.
93 Posted 06/02/2011 at 09:39:36
Might have known that Good old TW would have the usual suspects still saying we should get rid of Moyes. For fuck's sake. If that last transfer window didn't just sum it all up! Dominated most teams this year with great passing football and with any fucking luck we could've been around European places.
By rights we should be where Leeds and Forest have been the last few years. Be careful what you wish for.
94 Posted 06/02/2011 at 10:16:36
"Might have known that Good old TW would have the usual suspects still saying we should get rid of Moyes".
What...you mean after a home win against Blackpool (one that sees us conceding 3 goals) I'm supposed to say I've completely changed my mind?
Also I love the inference of "after all the glory, the accolades, the success, you're STILL moaning".
Seriously, five year-olds put more thought into debate.
For people to be crowing about Moyes, after a home win against Blackpool is worrying, because it suggests there are many who's standards are lower than a snake's ball-bag.
95 Posted 06/02/2011 at 11:48:30
"I am not proclaiming to be a genious." (sic)
96 Posted 06/02/2011 at 11:47:28
The reason we needed to change under Walter was because we were nearly relegated season after season, finishing 15th and 16th in his last couple of seasons. Moyes's positions have usually been 5th and 6th.
I look to the past because if you don?t learn from your history you will continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again. What about now? You say well what about now? The season hasn?t even finished yet to judge him. The league is very tight, we could finish anywhere from 6th to 16th but let?s at least wait and see. 6 wins by mid-February, you say is irrelevant because the season doesn?t finish in February, it?s been a similar story in a few seasons but we have always managed to turn it around.
97 Posted 06/02/2011 at 11:56:37
98 Posted 06/02/2011 at 11:59:54
Andrew James - you are Bluekipper and I claim my £5
99 Posted 06/02/2011 at 12:59:12
I'm speechless. Moyes obviously is a genius and I was wrong all along. In fact, because we won, I must have been wrong about Kenwright too.
100 Posted 06/02/2011 at 13:01:09
You say "What... you mean after a home win against Blackpool (one that sees us conceding 3 goals), I'm supposed to say I've completely changed my mind?"
But this is the the Blackpool side managed by the great Ian Holloway who is so gooed he should manage Everton. Moyes showed him how it is done like he normally does.
101 Posted 06/02/2011 at 13:32:15
You're Dodd-speak is getting worse, Holloway deserves plaudits for what he's done.
They didn't have a prayer at the start of the season, no money, no stadium but they overcame and I hope they survive.
102 Posted 06/02/2011 at 14:33:11
103 Posted 06/02/2011 at 14:36:36
On the learning from your history point Ian, I'm a history teacher, so I know about learning from mistakes to save yourself in the future. Maybe the club could employ me to give Moyes a few lessons in learning from past mistakes - repetetive bad subs, selling players a little earlier to get more money for them and to have time to spend that money, etc.
104 Posted 06/02/2011 at 14:57:56
105 Posted 06/02/2011 at 14:22:49
There were some very positive signs by all accounts, but our defensive play remains very suspicious and I can't see us climbing up the table if we don't fix that.
Going back to the Heitinga subject, why not play him and Jagielka? Distin has had his hiccups, even though he's been having a better season than the last one.
106 Posted 06/02/2011 at 14:42:09
the list of alternative managers comes up every season and as the De Matteo's of this world get found out, it dwindles and is usually gone by the end of February.
Holloway has enjoyed having no pressure or expectation, its easy to "go for it " when your fans just feel lucky to be here. but like Tony Mowbrey and Phil Brown before him , the increasingly gobby "Goon" is being found out and will soon be managing at a level more suited to his Schoolboy naivety.
You also make a very good point. Moyes benched Saha and Beckford at West Ham and his critics went hysterical. They were prepared to let them get away with stinking the place out, the Ginger fella had far bigger balls than that, he wasn't having it . . seems he got that right too. He`ll probably turn his attention to those individual defensive errors, expect JH to be dropped next week.
He`s a really good manager Moyesie . . I wish to fuck he`d start work before Chrimbo though.
107 Posted 06/02/2011 at 15:08:24
Let?s face it the chances of us replacing Walter and getting an improvement, i.e. taking us away from fighting relegation every season were favourable. The chances of bringing someone in who can take the club to the champion?s league are pretty slim; because that is the next level we are talking about here. Who ever comes in will not be able to compete with the millions spent by the current top 5.
As you know you history, tell me how many clubs and managers or teams outside of Man Utd Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea have made it into the top 4 in the last 10 years? There was only one until last season that I can think of and his name is David Moyes with Everton.
Only Moyes, Redknapp and Sir Bobby Robson in relatively recent times have shown they have the pedigree to break the top 4. Sadly Bobby has left us, and Redknapp is a crook who copys Moyes homework, which you should detest being a teacher.
Let?s not forget what happened to Robson when Newcastle thought he had taken them as far as he could, he was given the boot and Newcastle have been on a downward spiral ever since.
As for your other points, Moyes is not the only manager who makes repetitive bad subs, but Moyes gets it right more than he gets it wrong. I don?t understand your final point about selling players early to get more money?
108 Posted 06/02/2011 at 15:36:07
One of them wear white, the other black and white stripes. One plays at a plays called Elland Road the other at Saint James' Park. Am I getting through to you?
109 Posted 06/02/2011 at 16:12:13
I clearly mentioned Newcastle when i talked about Sir Bobby Robson. But my question was more specifically "tell me how many clubs and managers or teams outside of Man Utd Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea have made it into the top 4 in the last 10 years?" I dont remeber Leeds breaking the top 4 in the last 10 years, but you are the History teacher so i'll have to take your word for it i suppose.
110 Posted 06/02/2011 at 16:30:30
111 Posted 06/02/2011 at 16:19:44
He is totally frustrating though with selection, formation and substitution but I'd fear where we'd go if he left. The chances of finding a manager who could do better with no resources is small and I don't believe in miracles. The likelihood would be descent into oblivion which would be a very real risk.
If we had more money, there would be a chance of finding a manager who could do well but until then it would be absolute lunacy to change Moyes.
I'm not sure why some of us believe that a team in our financial position should be doing a lot better than we are doing or how that would be possible. Do we just quote the club motto that has become a millstone around our necks?
112 Posted 06/02/2011 at 17:07:35
If so, you'd better remove that bullet from your foot?
113 Posted 06/02/2011 at 17:45:00
114 Posted 06/02/2011 at 17:42:05
Ian, you did mention Robson, so why did you say that you could only think of one club to have "broken the big 4" in the last ten years?
I keep "ing the term "breaking the big 4" for reason too. We "did it" in 05, the season before that was the so called "big 4" who previously made up the top 4 positions in 1998!
Also, everyone knows that Moyes isn't the only manager that makes poor subs and uses negative tactics, but this site is called TOFFEEweb, so we naturally focus on EVERTON rather than other clubs.
115 Posted 06/02/2011 at 18:14:39
When David Moyes eventually goes to Celtic, we will see just how he copes with the most pressurised environment in British football. Yesterday was magnificent; however, the fact that we look upon it as great shows how we have fallen. We conceded three goals against a side who will struggle to get another point this season.
In answer to your earlier comments, many names have been put forward as alternatives to David Moyes. He's been here too long. Hoddle, Poyet, Bilic. Maybe any one of those can do better than 13th.
116 Posted 06/02/2011 at 18:10:07
Yes you are right this is toffeeweb, so we are going to discuss Evertons tactics but if we are talking about replacing Moyes then i thought it was worth while mentioning that his potential replacements have also been critcised for the same things so we wouldnt be making much progress.
The "big 4" have been the same big 4 since your names sake arrived at chelsea, and now that Man City have spent millions they have taken Liverpools place in the pecking order.
Yes spurs got 4th last season not Man City but it was undecided untill the last game when they played each other, i dont think Spurs will take 4th this time now that City have spent further millions even though Spurs have splashed a bit as well.
117 Posted 06/02/2011 at 18:27:37
Moyes didnt do too badly in the UEFA cup a few seasons ago when we won every game in the group beating the eventual UEFA and Super Cup winner Zenit along the way only knocked out on penalties to a good Florentina side who went on the following seasons to show what a good side they were.
As for comparing the money hes spent, most of that has come from having to sell players, fair enough he was lucky to be able to get money from the Rooney deal, but overall he has used the money very wisely.
As for down playing the result against Blackpool, this is the team with the manager that many think is the ideal man to replace Moyes. The other people you have put forward are a joke, Poyet cant even speak English properly i heard him on MOTD or football focus not so long ago and he made less sense than Marcel Desailly who cant even string propper sentences together so how is he supposed to communicate with the players? he would do as well as Di Matteo and Martinez.
118 Posted 06/02/2011 at 18:30:23
Back to the real issue here, Yesterday's game was a fantastic football game, but if that was Moyes' judgement day, I have to agree with Andy Crooks and say we are worse off than we all thought.
It's obvious anyway, Moyes wants out, and knows that if he quits he gives up a massive amount of money, but if he performs badly and is sacked it's payday.
119 Posted 06/02/2011 at 18:44:43
120 Posted 06/02/2011 at 18:43:57
My point is after reading pretty much what was reported by the Echo amongst others recently, there have been 6 comments on the article all singing from the rooftops that, in the words of one poster "long live the Moyesiah"
Are they all blind or are these fans watching the Everton of Chile? (I've not checked there recent form or league placing before you advise they are worse than us.)
Firstly that word 'Moyesiah'; never liked it ? even when I did like him (beauts). Secondly, the man we call our manager needs replacing, albeit I'd say come the end of the season as no point now... and please can he take Round and BK (once his 24/7 search has finally come to fruition) with him.
The fans on Bluekipper gave me a giggle if nothing else, but in reality seem to have been living on a different planet to most, and seem to have only posted after another dodgy defensive display, the only difference being our strikers converted the chances presented to them.
I don't need to go into what our manager has done wrong or lacks, as it has been covered already and I would be here all day, but please don't let one decent result put a gloss on a shite season. I hope come the start of next season that he has been replaced with a manager with fresh and new ideas and a board that is willing to stump up more than £1.75 for fresh faces, because another season like this just is not good enough!!
Thanks Louis for your efforts yesterday... long overdue, but better late than never. I woke up this morning with a smile on my face, I had forgotten how good it felt to take 3 points from an average side, so long may it continue. Let's get this season finished and re-group hopefully without the "Moyesiah".
121 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:11:31
10 years ago this year when Leeds broke into the top 4
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/03-04/premtable.php The top 4 established as the "big 4"
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/02-03/premtable.asp It could also be argued that the big 4 was established the year before but Newcastle broke into it.
122 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:20:15
123 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:23:14
"one decent result" off the top of my head what about Spurs, City and Chelsea?
124 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:16:11
125 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:30:52
126 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:33:34
127 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:36:12
You say you are a lover of football and I believe you, so please stop putting Walter Smith getting to a final up there as an achievement.
I have never seen witnessed the sort of turgid anti-football Walter employed to get there. Every football fan in Europe wrung their hands in frustration, he is without dobut the most negative manager in the game, he makes Davey Moyes look like Ossie Ardiles.
Did you see the match today? The Hoops are down to 10 for an hour and Walter's STILL got eleven behind the ball.
The tactics he employed at Old Trafford were utterly utterly shameful.
128 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:48:32
129 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:59:05
I thought you were trying to say that Moyes braking into the top 4 was not such a big thing because the "big 4? had not established themselves. But from the those tables you can see Chelsea, Arsenal , Man U and Liverpool were all up there even before Roman arrived and strengthened Chelsea even further.
Even looking at the league now and comparing it to 10 years ago it is the same except Man City have been swapped for Leeds and Spurs have been swapped for Newcastle.
As for Chelsea being stale, I?m not excepting that one. Man Utd have been stale but are still top of the league, Most of Chelsea?s players would still walk into any team.
130 Posted 06/02/2011 at 19:54:29
We were absolutely hopeless when he was in charge, playing the most dreadful football, looking to the likes of Chadwick to give us hope for the future and wasting money on couldn't-care-less mercenaries and has beens like Matterazi, Dacourt and Collins.
Lovely man that he is, in 45 years as an Evertonian, I have never seen such dreadful football, blatantly backward progress and a total lack of future prospects/anticipation.
I know you're an avid Moyes detractor and can manage to get a dig in to that effect on ANY post
(even in what should be a celebratory one such as this), but do us a favour....
He was as dire as he is dour at Everton. To champion him over David Moyes is ludicrous and to do so just exposes but one major flaw in your boringly repetitive 'Moyes out' mantra. More than that, it's laughable.
Like others have posted elsewhere, Ferguson, Mourinho and Guardiola could not have turned more sows ears into silk purses at Everton than David Moyes.
And I dispute your assertion that Moyes has had more money to spend. Apart from the three former players mentioned above, Smith was allowed to indulge himself much more freely - but can you name anyone he bought that you remember fondly?
I could probably name a whole international team from Moyes, all or most of whom are coveted by all or most of our rivals.
There are NO easy games this year in case you haven't woken up to that yet and although one swallow does not make a Summer, it was a great win yesterday, especially after the setback of losing a lead twice and facing defeat with 20 minutes to go. Blackpool can play a bit you know...
But we fought back, showed skill, style and spirit - and that's what counts. It's what we did, not who we did it against that matters.
Let not anyone forget, before that fortune-changing win at Oxford more than quarter of a century ago, we were dying on our arse under Howard Kendall.
Then it all changed.
Odd quibbles aside (Heitinga and Distin having on off-day for example), it was like a mini-flashback yesterday with everyone else showing what they could do.
I don't know how old you are, or if you were around back in the mid-eighties? I was and went to virtually every game, home and away.
Players like Stevens, Ratcliffe, Steven, Sheedy, Sharp, Heath metamorphosised overnight and became the great Evertonians we now rightly revere them for.
I saw signs of that against Blackpool. Not as seismic maybe, but positive all the same.
Can you never find anything positive to say?
If we'd won 10-0 yesterday, I'm sure you'd still have found something to moan about. Indeed, I warned early on in this thread that people needed to keep an eye out for the handful of people like yourself who would be hell-bent on finding fault as it progressed.
To you and the rest of your perpetually-unhappy band: lighten up. We won 5-3.
131 Posted 06/02/2011 at 20:22:45
132 Posted 06/02/2011 at 20:24:20
David Booth, I for one, and can't find many others finding fault with the Blackpool game. What we keep repeating is that beating Blackpool shouldn't be what we celebrate at the end of the season.
We have a decent run of league games coming up, none of which are against teams we should be losing to and most we have a good chance of beating. Let's hope that Moyes learns from this Blackpool game and puts the right players in the right places at the right times. If he can consistently do this, I'd love to see him do it for as long as he can.
133 Posted 06/02/2011 at 20:34:45
Then there was Sir bobby Robson, excellent manager and great man, he would be the one i would think about swapping with David Moyes but as we know, that is not possible. But what happened to him? The same thing that happened with Moyes. The fans thought they knew best, saying the same things they say about Moyes, like, ?he's took us as far as he can, we need a change, someone with imagination, someone who can take us to the next level. ?The next thing ,they are down at the bottom of the table until they were eventually relegated.
Then there is Harry Redknapp who took over a top 6 side under a terrible run of form. They sacked Jol and brought in a manager who couldn?t even speak English and things went from bad to worse. Harry took over and it was perfect timing selling one or 2 of Jols players for big money and added more depth to the squad giving them enough to turn them from a top 6 side to a top 4 side, crucially they qualified for the Champions League which unfortunately we never succeeded with which has given Spurs the momentum and most importantly money to stay up there.
But I don?t need to give you a History lesson because you already knew all this but for some reason you think we have a good chance of bringing someone in who can turn this club around with no money and compete against the "Big 4" plus Man Citys Millions and Spurs Champions League Cash not to mention most of the other clubs spending more than us.
I think it would be a huge gamble and would prove to be a very big mistake, eventually we would follow in the footsteps of Leeds or Charlton or Newcastle etc. etc.
134 Posted 06/02/2011 at 21:06:34
I come from a belief system that "anything less than the Premier League is a failure". Sorry to have higher standards than those that think the sun shines out of Moyes's arse, but 9 years with nothing shiny... Fuck that!
135 Posted 06/02/2011 at 21:16:48
136 Posted 06/02/2011 at 21:18:11
Who do you think we could bring in then who is going to have us winning shiny things with the finances we currently have and the finances that other teams we are competing with currently have?
137 Posted 06/02/2011 at 21:25:05
138 Posted 06/02/2011 at 21:42:42
Yes Moyes would more than likely succeed tremendously at United or Arsenal because he would have a significant amount of money to utilise than he has at present. SAF would not win as many shiny things at Stoke because he would not have loads of cash to splash out ie He would not be able to slash out £8 million on a defender who played less than one season in top level football or £7 million on a striker he had never seen play.
The point is how many managers have been winning shiny things without money whilst Moyes has been at Everton.
Also, you state we will not be able to produce 04-09 again without starting again. Well we are only 3 points off 8 and 9 as we stand. However, i would obviously agree that i would like us to be aspiring for a higer finish than 8 or 9th.
139 Posted 06/02/2011 at 22:37:27
140 Posted 07/02/2011 at 00:28:19
It would appear that you seem to think you've struck upon some so called 'comedy gold' (as the constant repetition would suggest) but just to let you know, your reference to the words incredible and unbelievable were not actually witty, amusing or otherwise, the first time.
Your relentless cynical 'journalism' is tiresome, boring and childish.
Why don't you give it a rest for a little while, or at the very least think up some new titles to your articles... I'm all laughed out!
141 Posted 07/02/2011 at 03:51:30
But sadly all we could manage in the three subsequent games after he came out with that rubbish were ? guess what ? fucking draws!!! Three more incredible, unbelievable DRAWS! That bit was not of my making, Ben. But sadly it summed up only too well the dreadful season he has overseen to date. Which is why I made reference to it.
That brings us to Saturday and the indisputable fact that this WAS, for once, a game truly worthy of those maligned descriptors. This was a truly incredible, unbelievable game ? the like of which we have very rarely seen on his watch. Perhaps that provides mitigating circumstances for him misusing such terms to describe an all too consistent failure to beat our arch rivals at their gaff... but I don't think so really.
Feel free to carp; let us know when we can look forward to some meaningful contribution from you.
142 Posted 07/02/2011 at 11:38:38
143 Posted 07/02/2011 at 11:31:47
144 Posted 07/02/2011 at 11:26:46
Holloway over Moyes? Lost more in the last 10 games than we have all season, but he plays great football dont he? .... Does he? 2-3 up after 2 very lucky goals and he takes off his best attacking players and brings on 2 defenders.... result?
Di Matteo....P45, deserved? His record suggests justified ? too many defeats.
Ask any supporter in the prem who they would realistically have as manager if their manager was sacked in the morning. But let's sack him for the sake of change eh...
Onwards and downwards.
145 Posted 07/02/2011 at 13:24:02
146 Posted 07/02/2011 at 13:38:14
147 Posted 07/02/2011 at 14:20:49
''What happened today has got nothing to do with the way that twat Kenwright is destroying our club. That is what you heard people moaning about. Not the game today.''
YOU MUST BE HAVING A LAUGH, MATE!
This site has been awash with misery drenched Evertonians crying for Moyes to leave in recent weeks. We even had the ludicrous thread entitled ''If we don't win today (v Blackpool) Moyes must Resign!''
Fickle isn't even close!
148 Posted 07/02/2011 at 16:02:23
Well let's do 'misery drenched' first.
Guilty as charged.
I have, for most of this season, been drenched in misery.
But...I don't understand why it comes across as an accusation against ME, instead of those who have done the drenching.
You drench me in trophies and/or attacking football and that's what I'll be drenched in, you drench me in misery....et-fucking-cetera
As for fickle?
Incredible, it seems one decent game against average opposition and there's self-righteous, 'better blues' all over the show.
Giving it loads to those with the temerity to suggest we might be better replacing a man who has been in his job 9 years, won fuck-nothing, is over-cautious, defensive and lacks imagination.
Seriously, if that's the best you can do 'MATE', you should wind your fucking neck in
(nb: and seriously - stick your better blue-ist shite up your tea-towel holder).
149 Posted 07/02/2011 at 17:30:18
150 Posted 07/02/2011 at 17:41:40
151 Posted 07/02/2011 at 18:44:05
152 Posted 07/02/2011 at 18:48:56
153 Posted 07/02/2011 at 19:28:38
Have I said you in particular are fickle?
Before you answer that with one of your long-winded replies, the answer is No. You have nailed your anti-Moyes colours to the mast a long time ago, so you are consistent and not fickle and I doubt Everton beating Liverpool 4-1 in the Campions League Final would actually satisfy you and some others completely.
However, the point I was making to somebody else was that as usual we now see a huge over-reaction. This time it's joy at winning a game 5-3 against a team on a run of 7 defeats in 8, while earlier this week it's utter despair at losing a game narrowly away to Arsenal.
Many things have gone wrong this season and I question much of it myself. However, when I asked for sensible suggstions to a Moyes replacement on here a while ago there were no responses. If nobody has a better plan, perhaps we can only accept who we have got and question why he has been given very little to spend compared to others in the last three transfer windows.
By the way, Eugene, who would you like to see brought in?
154 Posted 07/02/2011 at 19:18:26
I can understand people being miserable when we lose, at a stretch, I can even understand people being really unhappy when we only managed a draw against the current Champions, but when we've just been royally entertained, got three points, and you're still fucken moaning...
Seriously guys, I wanna know, why put yourselves through it?
155 Posted 07/02/2011 at 20:01:17
I am not drenched in misery; believe it or not I want the same as you, David Booth and Ian Tunstead. I just see the way there differently.
156 Posted 07/02/2011 at 20:14:27
Of course you are right, an awful lot of our problems are still here, and they will still be here if we win 5-3 next week too. But let's be fair here, you have been one the first to attack Moyes after a defeat and, if we lost on Saturday, you and the rest of Moyes`s critics would have had a field day.
Next time you see a thread calling for Moyes`s head, take time out, look at it from both sides, his supporters not only have to put up with the constructive criticism, they also have to put up with digs and insults, it works both ways.
I personally find the word apologist, deeply insulting; I think it can only ever be used by people wanting to create division, it lacks respect and will always draw retaliation.
We won on Saturday and we won in style. But if what we have seen so far is anything to go by, there`ll be plenty of opportunities to criticise between now and the end of the season and Moyes`s critics will once again point the finger at his supporters.
You`re right, we all want the same thing, so let's just enjoy the win, we can always resume hostilities after the next defeat
157 Posted 07/02/2011 at 20:46:29
"I can't see the post where anybody claims to be a better blue".
Really, well then let me help you out.
The dictionary defines fickle...
"Persons or things that are not firm or steady in affection".
Not much room there for confusion is there?
I mean it couldn't mean person who likes cheese or person prone to skin blisters ? right?
Ok, well according to Karl, as I'm in favour of a change of manager, I am not firm or steady in affection ? fickle (nb: please feel free to point out where I am confused or have 'got the wrong end of the stick').
You finish by asking "Why do you put yourselves through it?"
Goood question, maybe because we're not....I'll let you fish that.
Karl Masters you say you didn't say I in particular was fickle.
Wrong, that is EXACTLY what you said ? I disagreed with you, those who disagree with you are fickle, therefore I'M fickle... you MUST be the better blue.
The truth is, to state that others are fickle is saying TWO things VERY clearly.
1) I'M not fickle (I'm good)
2) THEY are (they're bad)
And if you fuck off all the semantics of "I didn't literally say..." or "what I meant was.." this IS better blueism and used in ANY Everton-related debate, as desperate as it gets... in my opinion
By the way, your 'long winded' comment?
Well I could change my style to suit you but.....well, that would be fickle.
158 Posted 07/02/2011 at 22:48:32
Nowhere have I said that I am a better Blue than you or anybody else. That would appear to be your interpretation of it and you have either got the wrong end of the stick or just love an argument..
I implied I'm not fickle and I'm not. I have a very clear view on Everton FC, expressed plenty of times on here: The playing side of it is better under Moyes than it would be under anyone else I can think of (and I note that you still have not given me a name of the man you think should be Manager) and I think the off-the-field activities are by and large a shambles.
Are you fickle? Well, not in the variance of your beliefs which are consistently anti just about everything (including Pink shirts), but as a Supporter? Who knows, but offering support does not seem to be one of your strengths, does it?
I am just bored, even saddened at times, by reading the over-reaction of some people on here, especially when things go well. Saturday's game was a great spectacle. Not perfect because we let in 3 bad goals, but on this occasion that just made the 5 we did get even sweeter. Yet some people want to argue, moan, continue to denigrate Moyes and the players even then. Can you not be happy just for one week?
I am not calling myself a Better Blue (whatever that means anyway), but I am calling you a Bitter Blue. Liverpool fans must love an argument with you, you seem to fit their stereotypical Evertonian to a tee.
159 Posted 07/02/2011 at 18:49:05
Can we agree Saturday was specatular in many respects?
Can we not also say it was a refreshing change from the utter garbage we've been saddled with watching on many occassion this season?
Saturday = fantastic, utterly enjoyable watch where you can still be critical on many levels of many things that occured. Yet happy at the approach and just the fun of watching a match, any match, like that? 8 goals! We won....
Season = utterly disappointing in many aspects.
Can you have enjoyed Saturday AND simultaneously still be miffed at Kenright and many of Moyes's decisions this year?
Am I riding a fencepost?
160 Posted 07/02/2011 at 23:41:40
Good Night. :)
161 Posted 07/02/2011 at 23:56:26
I'd like a change, in fact, I think a change is vital for the future of the club. However, it doesn't mean that I don't respect the job Mr Moyes has done.
162 Posted 08/02/2011 at 05:50:28
And to that, let's add another exceedingly annoying claim we see far too much on here: "short memories". Enough already.
163 Posted 08/02/2011 at 07:29:36
And I'll prove it.
You say I'm 'anti-everything' - here are a few things I'm FOR.
Freshening things up when they become stale.
Positive tactics on the field.
164 Posted 08/02/2011 at 08:33:55
You are indeed correct, that's exactly what the dictionary says, so I`m not sure how you interpret what Karl says as him claiming to be a better blue.
We fans are all in some way guilty of "not being firm or steady in affection".
I called Bily all the lazy bastards under the sun at the Emirates... but I was singing his praises on Saturday. I freely admit to not being steady with my affections: if someone plays well I think he`s wonderful; if he plays badly, I think he`s a twat... thought that was how it worked
Does that make me a lesser blue in some peoples eyes? More to the point, should I give a fuck?
Andy, Fair answer.
165 Posted 08/02/2011 at 09:48:14
You say '' here are a few things I'm FOR.
Freshening things up when they become stale.
Positive tactics on the field.
I'd agree with a lot of that, but don't forget that Moyes is only responsible for the events on the pitch so you cannot blame him for Shareholders Meetings being stopped (clearly outrageous) and I think he told us he was a traditionalist when asked about going to Kirkby (implying he understood the Club's traditions). I think he'd love a few trophies too!
As for positive, attacking football, I agree he's made some mistakes this season (4-5-1 against the likes of Wolves and Wigan for example), but of course this leads us back to one thing:
Would he play differently with better attacking players, does he get the support from the Boardroom to really do that (ie, buy real top drawer players raher than polishing rough diamonds) properly? And if things have gone stale, for the third time of asking, just WHO would you bring in Eugene to do a better job? I'd really be interested in your opinion on that one.
166 Posted 08/02/2011 at 12:12:44
At the match, a player can one minute be a world beater and then the next an effen useless barsteward in my eyes.
Football fans are not logic and "fickle" fits in nicely with all the illogical thoughts going around our heads.
Banning the word will just make a lot of fans use lond winded sentences to say the same thing.
Up with "Fickle", Hell no we won't go etc etc
167 Posted 08/02/2011 at 12:40:15
"And if things have gone stale, for the third time of asking, just WHO would you bring in Eugene to do a better job? I'd really be interested in your opinion on that one".
OoooooOOOOOO - for the THIRD time of asking!
Well here's a question - why dIdn't you read ALL the bleeding posts (clue: particularly 65).
If you'd done this, you'd have seen that you didn't have to ask three times as the answer to your (ultimately pointless) question had...how can I put this... ALREADY FUCKING WELL BEEN ANSWERED!.
Seriously - were you confused by 'If you offered me a swap for Holloway right now I'd take it"?
It wasn't clear somehow?
Anyway, I look forward to your belated "HOLLOWAY, FUCKING NOB-HEAD, WON FUCK-ALL...." etc response.
By the way, should I write this all down again a couple of times, just so you get it?
168 Posted 08/02/2011 at 13:15:48
I don't dispute your interpretations of 'fickle' but you both make the point that your interpretations include 'all'.
The problem when used, as it was by Karl, is that it is/was patently NOT inclusive but rather 'you are fickle' and by inference, 'I'm not'.
Big difference and I repeat, imo, better blueism.
169 Posted 08/02/2011 at 13:36:03
''I've NEVER slagged 'the man', but I think he lacks imagination and if you offered me a swap for Holloway now, I'd take it, just to freshen the place up (nb: and I think Holloway is a goon)''
So, in your desperation to ''freshen things up a bit'', you'd entrust the most important job at the Club to someone you consider ''a goon''???
Says it all really..........
170 Posted 08/02/2011 at 13:56:25
171 Posted 08/02/2011 at 20:22:34
That's the way Karl's using it and I think it's garbage. Tony is applying the same confusion: applying critical analysis to something you like and care about DOES NOT MAKE YOU FICKLE. I reject as abhorrent any notion that it does.
172 Posted 08/02/2011 at 22:52:37
Critical analysis is one thing Michael..... one thing that rarely gets a look in here immediately following a game.
173 Posted 08/02/2011 at 23:23:54
Critical post-match analysis involves assessing that performance from the basis of a fan who maintains constant affection and attachment for his club and their players.
Form changes from game to game (or hadn't you noticed?) Fans remain loyal (ie NOT FICKLE ? in case you hadn't noticed) despite their ability to recognize and analyse such fluctuations in form, performance, delivery and results.
On behalf of all the genuine fans who contribute critical post-match analysis to this website, I totally and categorically reject your labelling of them as "fickle".
174 Posted 09/02/2011 at 01:09:48
175 Posted 09/02/2011 at 06:44:53
176 Posted 09/02/2011 at 08:54:08
Talk about the Sword of Damocles per se.
Michael, so we are allowed to change our affections/attachments every single game then? Is not that the very definition of "Fickle" You state current form, surely that is more than just one 90 minute game. "He's shit he is", scores four and it's back to "King Lois" We get beat by Arsenal, "He's tactically naive", beat Blackpool by scoring five,"He's the Moysiah" again. Fickle?
177 Posted 09/02/2011 at 11:29:36
Karl has repeatedly stated that it wasn't his intention, why can't that be accepted?
And why is post 150 ? a very obvious attempt to insult the people who had posted after being at the game ? considered ok? No opinion was expressed, just a direct attack, one which is often repeated and designed to somehow deter people who want to support the Everton manager.
Michael/ Eugene: Do you consider calling a fellow blue 'fickle' a greater insult than calling him an 'apologist'?
178 Posted 09/02/2011 at 14:35:58
I said "There is no change in affections or attachments" ? read it again, you obviously don't get it cos you keep harping back to your silly little 'examples' of critical comments that ? wow! change based on the display! ? when your real agenda appears to be to deny or denigrate valid post-match analysis by those who have watched the game. It's not something new: you seem to do it with some frequency on here and it's a negative stance that is certainly not appreciated.
I'm totally with Eugene on this "fickle" nonsense. Karl's idiotic comments at #147 started this off and it is elitist in exactly the way Eugene has characterized him ? brilliantly at times. Read #157 again ? bang on the nail.
Dave, according to my dictionary, an 'apologist' provides a defence by argument, an example given being a defence of Christianity. What can be offensive about that usage? The word could not be MORE appropriate in the way it is being used here.
People who believe or trust in Moyes or Kenwright, and put forward their reasons, usually by way of defense against attacks from those less inclined to believe or trust ? all done by way of argument. A perfect application of the word. To me, it conveys loyalty to a position, and the conviction to defend that position against all-comers. And in religious terms, that usually involves faith or belief in something that runs contrary to the apparent facts or revealed wisdom which some see but which are rejected as heresey by the true believers... the parallels with adherents of our Moyesiah are legion!
And Dave, I can't see how Post 150 is "a very obvious attempt to insult the people who had posted after being at the game" and "not expressing an opinion"? It's expressing bemusement at the arguments being offered by the Moyes apologists in his defence. Perhaps the reason you don't like it is because it's on a par with many of your put-downs???
179 Posted 09/02/2011 at 15:26:32
If somebody wants to deny or attack my God and I defend against all detractors on all points I am indeed an apologist.
If somebody wants to attack my football manager and defend the points I disagree with, that imo makes me open minded, for instance you wont find me ? or anybody else ? defending the starts we make every season. Although I support Moyes, but I can still draw up a lengthy list of his shortcomings.
The term 'apologist' is a derogatory and divisive term used by people who are unable to counter an argument on a particular point. If you don't agree with every criticism of DM, you should be considered an apologist... it's a preposterous notion, you are for, or against, no grey areas and if you are not an apologist you cannot praise Moyes after Saturdays games because... well only apologist can do that. Somebody who follows blindly? ... what???
The open minded will see both positives and negatives, those with closed and already made up minds will see only the latter.
As for put downs, I like to think I try to put down the point rather than the individual, that got me into trouble. But if the day arrives when I can only counter an argument with by name-calling I`ll probably withdraw from all types of discussion and become a hermit ? take that smile off your face.
The majority were not offering a defence for Moyes, he didn't need it this time: we won. They were giving what they see as praise where it's due.
180 Posted 09/02/2011 at 18:36:44
I got into the debate just about the meaning of the word 'fickle'. I couldn't care less about poster critique in regards to the game, everyone has their different views and as I said, mine change within the game itself. Nothing to do with "silly little examples" . Without examples, there is no proof or backing up of a point.
Then again I am labelled an apologist etc etc... that's ok, just don't call me fickle then..... strewth!
181 Posted 09/02/2011 at 21:51:19
Is this ' fickle ' thing still chuntering on behind the scenes with the man who runs the site the Chief Antagonist it seems?
Michael. Like football, life and how we interact as people is based on opinions and beliefs. We'll never all agree, some people can accept that, others can't.
But isn't that the whole point of your Site? For people to express opinions and others to react.
I don't believe myself any better or worse than another Evertonian.
Irritated by people who are seemingly always complaining, who can never offer a constructive alternative ( Eugene's suggestion was to employ, in his words, '' a goon '' - Holloway - as our next Manager to '' freshen the place up a bit'') ? Most certainly.
I can express that opinion just as much as he can use his F-word littered 'genial' replies to express his opinions about me.
I can take it, I'm a grown man. It's good healthy debate even if it seems that some of you just love an argument no matter what. Being fickle is something we all do from time to time whether it's doubt our football team, fancy your wife's best friend, don't turn up to a friend's social event, etc,etc. It's hardly crime of the century!
As far as I am concerned, I respect your views, and I would expect that you can respect mine. I agree with some of your views ( eg Kirkby ),but I don't agree with the 'woe is me' angle from many posters. Maybe they need to just get it off their chests? Who knows? I can respect that, but I should also be able to disagree with it, should I not? Or is the Editor a Censor only happy to endorse people with his views whilst castigating anybody he disagrees with?
Anyway, time to move on as far as I am concerned.
182 Posted 10/02/2011 at 05:42:55
"Bloody Hell! Is this ' fickle ' thing still chuntering on behind the scenes"
Yes it is Karl....particularly at post 181.
183 Posted 10/02/2011 at 06:18:25
What I don't like reading is fans making out that they are better fans than other fans. That's what's divisive. That's what's offensive. That's what's abusive.
Most contributors address the issues at hand regarding the things most of us are interested in ? all things Everton. That, I like... no matter what their opinions, whether we agree or disagree ? no problem.
A few fans decide it's their prerogative to have a go at other fans who contribute to this site. That I am increasingly annoyed by.
Why do you have to do it? Karl, Dave, Tony ? just look at this discussion; you are all setting your selves up as "proper" fans and denigrating the responses of other fans ? responses that I believe and maintain they as Everton fans are perfectly entitled to make. Furthermore, I am protective of these fans expressing their opinions, [almost] no matter how wacky ? see recent defences of one Richard Dodd to some of the more abusive stuff.
The problem is a simple one: we all think we are right and we are not inclined to change our views when someone challenges them. Well, I'm challenging your pretentious tendencies to denigrate other fans using this site.
Just think about that for a minute, please.
If they express their opinion about something regarding Everton, why not address the issue and show how there is an alternate view, rather than castigating the person for having that view?
And sadly, Karl, your posts are for me perfect examples of such unwarranted castigation ? starting with the first one: "something some of the less tolerant on here people ought to remember" ? Why? Who the fuck do you think you are telling other people what they ought to be thinking? ? And ending with this 'woe is me' bollocks. Again, you decide some fans should be happier than they are... WTF?!?! Who has given you the right to make such determinations?
Why can't you just accept that the wide diversity of fans we have on here are going to exhibit a wide diversity of opinions? Instead of attacking them directly, as you do persistently...
As you might be able to tell by now, that attitude drives me mad!
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to Fan Articles, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.