Another shocking home result

Defence.............?????

What does Stones have to do to get dropped?

Barkley is never ever ever going to be workd class, don't care what anyone says. Dele Alli isn't either but hes a better prospect than Ross imo.

Stones comes across increasingly nervy but still has his arrogance, im not sure thats a good combo.

Bye Rom.

We could get beaten 12-1 now and RM wont be sacked, especially with City on the horizon. You can bet your house on us winning the league cup giving RM a passport to next season and we have to suffer this total mess for another season.

Our club is run like a chippy and we play some awful football, ive never been this bored or unbothered watching Everton.

I'll be optimistic and say we'll score 2 more goals next half. Only problem is we'll probably concede 1 or 2.

That's how much this season sucks because of this Spanish idiot.

Woeful first half, can we please have our good half now?

Why shouldn't he slate Stones? He is over rated, his inflated value is as much to do with his nationality as anything else. He isn't the best young ball playing centre back in Europe, that's codswallop.

There far better defenders than him in England. He tried to do the "right" thing but trying to do the right and being good at it are different things.

Stones has three things going for him – nationality, age, and pundits oozing some 'Beckenbauer' crap every time he runs forwards with a ball.

£50m thanks and goodnight.

I have no idea what the problem is. Martinez has to take responsibility for that. The referee also made a total blunder before the 2nd Swansea goal.

At the end of the day. Everton is as ALWAYS TOO PREDICTABLE! Both in offence and defence. They get high pressure and make the usual mistakes. The back for and the midfield can not handle to take the ball forward so so far we have not had a single really good attacking play in the whole game.

Howard has to go. Martinez needs to wake up or get some serious help.

Sell Stones and get in a proper centre half. If Martinez will not interest himself in defending, we need a big strong experienced gobby leader at CH. John Terry is out of contract this summer.

Howard scared to use his hands again for the pen.

Stones needs to"calm down", he'll be dropped for the cup game.

Yes, we have a cup game on Wednesday and Martinez wants to go down as the first Everton manager to win a cup for over 20 years but it is the league that is your bread and butter that draws the crowds and helps pay the bills. Games like this are going to see the crowds diminish rapidly.

I don't know as yet who should be the manager, but clearly it isn't Martinez. He has the tools to do a great job, but not the ability. Sad.

Time to get rid, and very quickly! :-(

Perhaps it is the reserves playing for the Toffees today.

I predicted 56 points this season.... we will be very, very lucky to get 40.

Yes, I am slating Stones, as I have almost since the time he became the next great hope of England's defenders. If he was not English he would be blasted for his inability to read a game, position himself, and defend inside his box. Why does he always slide? Because he is out of position. Why try a stupid back pass? His errors and cowardly defending of crosses are costing points.

Tim Howard isn't even my favorite American GK, much less my favorite EPL keeper. What I do detest is stupidity in criticizing the Keeper for goals caused by the repeated mistakes of others, and then piling on of opinions and the use of one prior season of stats while ignoring a career's worth and current ones. Howard has been treated unfairly on here by comments such as worst GK in the EPL, always been crap, etc.

I also defended Baines from the idiotic comments about him last season. Him I do rate so highly that he is an untouchable to me.

Think what you wish but by all means keep your blinders on when it comes to the errors of Stones.

Every game we play looks like an epic of a game because of we allow teams to come at us and it makes for a watchable game from a neutrals point of view, but not from my point of view as an Evertonian.

The only reason Martinez is still in a job is because his attacking play mask's how poor we are elsewhere, but that is never going to change because that is how Martinez always plays.

I can't believe I am saying this but unless Martinez is gone after this loss or we miraculously turn things around in the next 15-20 minutes I am gone as an Everton fan of 32 years.

Martinez go and take Howard, Pienaar, Stones with you.

I really believe this is the best squad we have had for a long time and they should be in top 4. I am refusing now to watch my beloved club again until he goes.

Only Barry and Deulofeu can hold up their heads tonight.

Same old same old!!!!!!

As for Howard... for fuck's sake!!!

Maybe we all need to consider the possibility that maybe our young supposedly brilliant players are just not good enough.

Manager - Pathetic.

A) Do you sack him tonight, get someone in with a few days left in the window with a chance to at least get a player in.

Or

B) Do you wait until the window closes, sack him, get someone in and pocket £8.5M into "other operating costs".

Felt a bit Walter-ish today.

This is not just a reaction to today because I have considered him to be utterly shit for a long time. I defy any Evertonian to defend him. The Naismith money should be used to pay him off and fuck him out of our club before he destroys it. What a sad combination, a really good squad and a self serving charlatan being paid a fortune to coach them.

I feel sorry to say it but on these results Martinez is failing. I'm having deja-vu's of last season where I accepted the results in the league on the hope of winning the EUFA Cup. This season it's the League Cup.

If we lose against City, I think it's time for Roberto to go.

Is any one, any one at all, prepared to justify and defend any aspect of that performance, be it the team, players or manager?

Bewildering, worrying times...

Where was the fight, passion, belief that was evident pre Martinez?.... dispairing blue. I cannot wait until this season of a car crash is over. Two seasons of utter shite.

Doesn't matter how good we are going forward, if we continually ship goals every game, we won't win many. 34 league goals let in now in 23 games...

One league win in the last ten.....that IS phenomenal.

I hope we stay up this season, but then we must get a new coaching staff or it will be relegation season. We are on the Wigan trajectory... cup win or not!

Breaks into a song from the '70s: "Go home, you bum, go home!"

Colin your ratings are a little unfair on Funes Mori though – to rank him as being below 'poor'.

I'm so angry with that performance, I can not put it into words right now.

John Stones cannot defend.

To be honest, I couldn't even get excited about nearly denying Swansea in the fifth minute of the four added on.

That should be enough for any right-minded board to get shut now... forget Man City on Wednesday; if they want to get to the final they will. He should be judged on his diabolical league form.

I believe Martinez has lots of good ideas, modern training methods and so on. But when it comes to matchdays, the players just doesn't look fired up. I'm afraid we need a change.

If Funes Mori had made the mistake that Stones did we would never hear the end of it. I am sick of the sight of him swanning around with his step overs and ambling back when the opposition are attacking how about he does some actual defending!

Relegation fight now on, because that has to be the worst first half performance I've ever seen – and I saw Gareth Farrelly. That degree of lack of movement, lack of fight, lack of effort has to be put down to the manager. Adios.

The only positive for Wednesday is that Howard's useless ass will be firmly on the bench.

I just want to apologize for every anti-Moyes post I ever made. Karma has had its say... If we do ever get rid of this muppet I will never ever complain about a dour 0-0 ever again. I will embrace it.

We can't win, we went from 1 extreme to the other but Moyes never had players like Lukaku and Deulofeu to select. If these are our only 2 choices I will choose the Moyes school of football, every singl day.

Congrats to Swansea who have beaten us for the second time in their history and first time in the league. Both games under the wise leadership of Senor Possession... Breaking records left, right and centre. I think he has goals conceded at home firmly in his sights...

I feel sorry for the Blues who had to sit through that at Goodison... We all deserve so much better, we definitely deserve more than Roberto Martinez...

I'm sick and tired of being kicked in my balls by this shite Martinez keeps providing, surely we have a better squad than Leicester?

I'll keep dreaming and hope we'll have the big takeover and bring in a new manager for a new era..The new manager being Jose Mourinho.

The rest is all negative. Some people were saying Pienaar was doing well and that he and Baines were linking up well. Firstly, Pienaar was crap for most of it, and, secondly, the link up between he and Baines was uninspired at best and, actually slowed us down as one was usually waiting for the other. If anyone know anything about Aussie Rules, think Gary Ablett Jr in his first two seasons at Gold Coast.

Martinez has to go, that is a given in my opinion. However, Barry, Gerry, and to an extent Cleverley aside, the players should not escape criticism for this shite. There is no urgency, no passion, no reaction. How many handballs do you let go before throwing a tantrum? Most fans say they don't want to see their players carrying on and abusing the ref to get their way, but the clubs that do that win things. Fair enough, the players play to the manager's system, but when it isn't going to plan, the players need to step up and take it in their own hands.

That said... Martinez out!

The defense problem has to be solved. You cannot expect Everton to win any games when they let in 1 or 2 shit goals due to own mistakes in about every second game. There is no spirit on earth who will save your ass from this shit.

They cannot blame bad Luck either. Swansea was better when the game was 0-0 and 1-1. Or at least they were playing smarter. They had done their homework. They knew how to punish Everton (like everybody know). High pressure on the two central defensive midfielders and the back four.

Everton did not managed to control the game in the beginning. It ended up like usual. A desperate hunt for goals in the end, banging a defence with 10 men.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Our total coaching staff from top to bottom needs cleansing, no point in stating the obvious that Martinez should fuck off because that wont happen until we get relegated.

Resting the captain after one game back is bordering on insane when Stones needs a rest. I have no idea why Pienaar is playing – he kept losing the ball or falling over. Lukaku had no support once KM went off and had 3 defenders on him at all times.

They had everyone back for the siege at the Alamo, we just weren't good enough and that starts at the top. Bill Kenwright and the board need to act and get a real manager in.

Also even if we got some quality in this window they too would eventually land up playing the same old shite. The players we have are class – it's just the manager is not... Sorry but Bobby has to go!!

At the other end John stones has not been the same since that injury and now with the crowd on his back is rapidly losing confidence.

Enough has already been written about TH who was past his sell by date 2 years ago. But we still have enough talent to be top 6 with a decent manager which Bullshit Bobby is not.

Anyone who thinks we will get a result at Man City is a super optimist.

We really are shocking at the back and the anixiety shows throughout the side, however how on earth did no-one get on the end of just one of Del Boys crosses is beyond me.

Colin, average for Del ; can't understand that rating?

Have Ferguson in charge for now with Royle and Unsworth assisting.

Get Karanka from Middlesbrough. His teams defend and attack in decent measure and before you say ugh another Spanish manager etc. this hut isn't a charlatan he has played at the top woth top players and is doing as a manager, unlike RM who has somehow fooled people into thinking he is important in Spanish football.

Stones seems to pride himself in having time on the ball, displaying his"coolness" but he is creating pressure on others. Howard was a fool leaving his foot in on the player going over the bye line anyway, another example of him panicking.

These early kick-offs certainly often have a half-baked feel to them, but it is up to the professionals on show to get up for it. Lukaku seemed to be dreaming of his next move, while Stones makes silly errors every game. The injuries didn't help, but Martinez has to carry the can for that display. The crowd almost expect a cock-up every home game .

Swansea hardly did anything in attack, but got 2 goals, so Man City will destroy us, and this poxy season will go the way of last year.

No plan on how to play other than one way which patently doesn't work. No in-game management technique. No learning from the same mistakes that happen again and again at the back. He has no absolutely no redeeming features for me. His happy-clappy endless positivity and false charm are grating in the extreme.

He is destroying our club week by week. The longer he stays, the more damage that will be done.

Supporting this team with nearly 50 years, and I cant ever remember us having such a leaky defense. If he is still in charge next year he will take us down. Where are all his supporters now!!!!!, the ones who were saying at the start of the season to give him the first ten games... then it was give him till Xmas, and now we are nearly in to February and same mistakes being made over and over again.

He has previous!!!, and he will take us down.

Lukaku, Barry, Baines, Coleman and Delofeu (if fit) would get into any EPL team, but who else? Stones is elegant but can't defend, Jags is small for a CH, Barkley rarely these days scores or assists, FM is new to the league, Mirallas blows hot and cold, Howard is well over the hill, all the others are squad players at best.

We need new owners, a new manager and a reconstruction using the Stones Barkley and Lukaku money.

Stupid penalty in the last minute against Stoke
Clear penalty – not given – in the last minute against Man City
Poor decision-making today giving away another penalty

Someone needs to tell this kid to stop pissing about with the ball and do the simple things first, he's starting to cost us as many points as Howard has over the season.

I also don't know if it's just me but he seems to have a cockiness about him that's starting to piss me off!!

Some are berating a 'lacksadaisical' Stones. I would ask, instead, where is the coaching? Where is the manager who is telling his young player to clear your lines, to perform the basics? Or do we have someone in charge for whom performing two Cruyff-turns in the 6-yard box is a "diamond of English football expressing himself"? Stones may not be the flavour of the month, but the talent is there – he COULD yet be an England captain, an 80-cap rock of the defence. But with good management, not with this inability to iron out the same mistakes, made time and time again.

And this is the issue – with this dire result, Europe is gone out the window. And with it, so too, much more will be gone – all these young players upon whom we are pinning our future. Do you think Stones, Barkley, Deulofeu, Lukaku will stick around this summer when a club who has qualified for the Champions League comes calling? Due to the utter mismanagement of a squad that is our best for 30 years, instead of being in the Top 4 (look, Leicester bloody city are there, don't tell me we haven't got the players to be up there) we are anguishing in 12th. This summer, with the exodus of youth, our next 10 years goes with it, all hopes of Champions League qualification, all hopes of ending the ridiculous trophy drought, all hope full stop.

And that is why calling for RM to go, and go now, is not a knee-jerk reaction to yet another bad result, another defensive comedy-show, another inability to keep a clean sheet, another game where we dominate long spells and fail to take away 3 points. It is nothing more than a plea to BK to act now, coolly, and with a level-head, to preserve the future of this club, and the wealth of young talent that we have. They deserve better than this. We deserve better than this.

Go, Roberto, for the love of God, just go.

Why can't we summon up the motivation we showed in the second half in the first? We are always fire fighting!

We need to have a different Everton to turn up on Wednesday, I'm moving the sofa out already!

To balance the comments, I've not seen one mention of the handball for their second, disgraceful miss from the officials yet again as Geri was clean through. Then to miss three penalty shouts is again ridiculous.

Sorry to piss on the anti Bobby chips but we're getting a raw deal at the moment. Things will change but not with this keeper. Pienaar was excellent not poor or finished by the way.

I'm weirdly not angry. It's been going on so long I just expect it now...

What's all these comments about Kenwright and stewards?

Regardless of whether Duncan can manage, do you think he would allowed what happened today? There would have been players hanging from their dressing room pegs.

He sans around with an air of confidence that only a totally deluded man would possess! He thinks his time at Wigan was a massive success, If by some miracle we win the league cup, but go down, he'll think the same about his time here, he's a mad man. We have a lunatic in charge our club and no way to dispose of him!

Says a lot, Geri more or less mentioned it in the interview, good for him. Stones? Well I hate to say I told you so but his arrogance stinks.

Our home form is shameful full,stop.

I pray Wednesday shows a different approach or this season will turn even more painful very quickly. Who on here really thinks RM is still the man for the job?

You keep pointing the finger at Stones in an attempt to deflect criticism of your man Howard, it won't wash, Stones needs his arse kicking for playing that ball back, not for playing it, but for playing it to Howard.

I watched it live and I've watched 5-6 times since. The Swansea guy makes up 7/8 yards on Howard. The dopey twat still hasn't realised that you move to the ball... you don't wait for it to get to you!!!

Just like last week, Howard saw the man coming and the arse fell out of him. Gutless, Gutless goalkeeping, Stones should be docked a month's wages for trusting him.

Big Nev must feel like throwing up every time he watches this coward.

I dread the thought of us getting through on Wednesday now – no matter how bad they might be imagine what Liverpool will do to us if they get through too...........?

I hope he looks at the films today and sees how organized Swansea's defense was, with a manager who has only been there a week, and has years of experience in the Italian leagues. Let's face it, you have a better chance of winning the Lotto than BK firing Martinez.

Away from home isn't anything to write home about either; we've played 22, won 5 drawn 8 and lost 9 during the same timescale. Total of 45 games played, Won 12, Drawn 16 and lost 17 making it a points total of 52 points.

I'd be delighted if we end this season with anything near 50 points.

There aren’t any, I hardly ever see any posts defending this clown. At least with Moyes, there where plenty of detractors and supporters, I don’t anyone who wants to keep this manager apart from our board.

If anyone offered 㿅 million for Barkley I reckon 90% of Evertonians so would take it, same with 㿏 million for Stones, we could rebuild with that money but please not with Martinez at the helm.

I would have Nigel Pearson before this fella, I mean it’s virtually his team who are top of the league, they started their current run about 10 games before the end of last term.

Officials' decisions are swings and roundabouts over the course of a season. Look at the league table, as the saying goes, it doesn't lie.

Regardless of the result on Weds, I hope the club is sold soon and the new owners see sense and show RM and his back room staff the door.

That's what I said, dock his wages. fancy giving the ball to Howard when a man only has to make up 9 yards.

Howard won't play on Wednesday, so we will get to the cup final. He should have been dropped months ago.

The back pass from Stones was poor but Howard can see everything in front of him, he can see Stones looking for him - to give him an option - Howard can see the Swansea player , it's playground stuff and been going on now far too long.

Stones is making mistakes with us that he will not be allowed to make at whatever club he ends up at.
If I was the manager I would drop both of them.
If I was the chairman I would be summoning the incredible one and laying the law down big time.
This group of players are being let down by poor management and coaching.
The fans are being let down by the silence of the Everton board.

Today we had two forced substitutions, but that is no excuse for this performance.

I watched the game on the telly and the atmosphere was eerie, it seemed absolutely flat, can anyone at the game confirm ?

Did I miss any?
Martinez is as predictable as our results.
I stopped buying into Martinez about 12-14 months ago

We're not doing it under Roberto and Moyes is out of work. If we were run by people with an ounce of vision, we would scour the globe looking for another Potchettino, but no, Moyes managed to hoodwink our board into thinking he did an amazing job, as opposed to a better one than his predecessor. Worse still, many of our fans would feel the same way and would be ecstatic with this.

I predicted this scenario because Evertonians are by nature afraid of change and because Moyes would be way out of his depth at a club like United. I'm now so sad that we'll be clearing space in the trophy cabinet for the annual top eight success story once more. In the era of new money, the next few months will determine if we slowly fade away into Leedsesque obscurity, or if we at least dream big. Will be watching through my fingers to see what the club do.

The Stones/Howard blunder plus the horrible deflection to put them in front only confirmed the feeling of 'here we go again' as we failed to make any impression as we came up against the usual mass defensive wall which we never seem to cope with ,time and again, aided and abetted by an inept 'official' who chose not to see two clear hand balls and both Lukaku and Barry being hauled down in their area at set pieces.

Predictably we put more pressure on in the second half but despite several excellenf crosses into the area by a frustrated MOM Delboy no one,Lukaku included, could get near compounded by the last second miss by Coleman.
Being realistic we will need a miracle to get past City this week as Europe is out of the question as we continue to gift games on this disastrous scale, which no one in charge seems able to answer

Steve (115) you are spot on. Stones was to blame. Worst game I have seen him play in the blue shirt and that has nothing to do with Howard.

Number of questions to ask;

Why does Robles never play ahead of Howard?
Why was he playing a left footed Lb at Rb?
Why did he bring a full back on when we are chasing a game whilst we had a winger and striker on the bench?
Why did we not change shape for the ladt 20 minutes when it was clear they were throwing every man behind the ball?
Why has he sold Naismith with no replacement ready for this busy period of games?

The list could go on.....

Take your own advice and stop blaming the keeper to keep from having to criticize your precious John Stones. If my defender did that to me in a game, I would be in his face right on the pitch and at halftime. Howard is a GK not Superman and cannot clean up every mess that Stones and the disorganized defense create.

Fabianski, in contrast was excellent and bravely came for every cross. I thought that Del was great today and his crosses were out of this world. How we did not get on the end of two or three of them is beyond me (and beyond them too).

A hospital ball by Stones followed by a complete lack of anticipation by Howard, who compounded his snail-like movement by staying on his feet and tackling, instead of going down and using his hands for a change. A poor keeper who keeps losing us points.

Barry was superb today. He would have been great in Moyes' team, methinks. Deufelou put five great balls into the box, begging to be buried in the net. No-one dived in, no-one gambled. That sums up the lack of purpose and drive that sets us apart from most of the league.

We need a better performance on Wednesday, or Martinez's reign will last as long as a successful due diligence takes.

Watford, Leicester, Southampton – all relative recent promotions to the Premier League – are outperforming us. We will end up like Aston Villa unless things change. They lost all their best players and have never recovered.

I said it in a previous comment but that is me done now with Everton as someone who has supported them for 32 years. I will not go to or watch another game until Martinez has gone.

Next season without 150 mill of our players, who will be off to pastures new, for certain! we will be able to "B***** About" in the relegation zone instead of mid table as at present.

Is it me??? .......or was Lukaku on his own playing up front with back to goal with at least two Swansea defenders for company...all afternoon! Waiting for the ball to arrive after it had been along the back four up the wings down the wings across the back four up the wings again! whilst Everton kindly waited for all the Swansea players to get into the right defensive positions. Once we were happy that they were happy .... we played the ball to Lukaku.

"We're" only half a football team compared to the boys in blue of a few years ago.

It is time for a painful executive decision from the top of the organisation. One we haven't done for about 10 years!!

How am I wrong to say Stones should be docked a months wages ? I would not trust your boy to put the garbage out, why would stones trust him to move his feet or show some courage.

Ill accept a lot of things, lack of courage isn't one of them.

If the words greatest clubs and coaches had the option to sign your hero, or Stones tomorrow, they would bid 50m for one, but would not bid 50quid for the other . . see if you can figure out which way around

We DO need to scour the globe thoroughly for a SUITABLE replacement to take us forward. Not another dour Davey, nor Moyes himself.

In case it's escaped your notice, he's part of the coaching staff currently in charge of running the current trainwreck – and look how that's turning out!

1. Why is Howard in goal?
2. Stones was so nonchalant today he made my blood boil.
3. Plan B? Do we practice any other tactics? Clearly NO!
4. Defending? You'd of thought after our recent results we'd of focused on our defence, again clearly NO!
5. Why is there always a great big hole in the centre of the park where none of our players dare venture, but today Cork & Briton were able to play freely.

If Moyes had the players at his disposal that Martinez has, what do you think the comments on here would be, (I'm no great admirer of Moyes before anyone thinks it).

Agree about Barkley, but that was not a hospital ball by Stones, have another look it was 90-10 in favour of Howard.

Sometimes its about desire and Bravery, Howard comes up short on both counts . .He will cost Martinez his job

Martinez is sucking the lifeblood out of this team and simply has to go. That said, I suspect there are major issues behind the scenes at the moment with ownership of the club, so God knows what will be happening.

This shithouse, who played basketball as a kid, doesn't have a clue about what a goalie should do and seems to think football is a non-contact sport (like basketball). He doesn't know when to come out, or stay, his distribution is pathetic, his decision making is even worse. He exudes uncertainty and apart from being a decent shot stopper he doesn't seem to have learnt a thing during his time in the prem.

One last thing. What do we do before games? Watch a fucking documentary on Animal Planet? They seem to come out with no plan, attitude or desire in some games. Del made reference to this but he blamed the players for being shit. Really Gerri? Does the manager really fire them up only for them to shit their pants once the game starts? If so that is astounding.

And 3 of those 6 wins came against the current bottom 3 clubs of Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle.

Our team is full of Internationals from all over the world. Lukaku, Baines, Coleman, Stones, Barkley, Deulefeu, McCarthy are all £20m+ players.

It makes no sense. How has Mourinho lost his job and Martinez has not?

If the keeper doesn't call for it and is not moving outside his posts, then that player, if no other options exist up the field, kicks it up and out near midfield. I don't let my U14s play the ball to the keeper in that situation as he then is likely to be closed by the player in front of him or at least be put under pressure and have to kick from a worse position than where the ball is originally.

And FFS, you don't fake a pass to the keeper which gets the player standing off of the keeper moving towards him and then send the pass to the keeper who has taken a step back or at lest is now flat-footed not expecting the pass, because you now have given the opposing player a headstart.

A back pass to the keeper or playing into the keeper should never result in the keeper being put in a worse position with worse options than the player with the ball originally. Stone received the ball facing up the field for goodness sake.

Where exactly was Howard supposed to go if he had won the ball? Stones wasn't open as he still had a player on him and Howard was moving away from his goal so couldn't have played it to the other side? If he pulls up then he is one v one with the opposing player and the goal is left open, so because of the pass from Stones, he has to come and get the ball or the man or both. Can only imagine the criticism if he had stayed on his line and a goal resulted. Course Stones could have slid in for another deflected goal I guess.

Andy, Darren, Paul, and others, please tell me where I am wrong so I can start rewriting my training sessions for my GKs and myself in my own games?

I hope that the ownership thing gets done very quickly indeed, if it's going to happen at all, not least because I think we need to buy this month and we only have 6/7 days left.

The truly sad thing is there's not an earthly he will lose his job. He's got the safest post in the game but obviously it's a results business and ours just aren't good enough... so why are our board failing to act? Are they going to wait until we actually slip into the bottom three because its looking that way.

As others have rightly stated, we are in a dogfight; make no mistake, our results will tell you that. Anyone thinking he'll get out of jail by winning the League Cup are seriously deluded.

If we were to get through, big ask, I know, and THEY got through... does any single Evertonian honestly think we'd beat them in the final? We'd piss ourselves as we always do against them.

My own view is Man City will beat us comfortably; I can't see us getting anything there. Will the board act then? No. Will the board act if we struggle against Carlisle? No. This'll be allowed to go on. Any other board would have acted last season, and gone and got Bilic – look what he's doing now! No, Kenwright and Co think they've got some sort of footballing visionary.... I've got news for them – they haven't. We are in big big trouble and the worry is its being allowed to go on. These are worrying times indeed...

On a back pass or play in pass from your own player into the box, the GK cannot use his hands so he has to win the ball with his feet or take the player out or both. I didn't answer the question about why he didn't use his hands as I assumed everyone knew that.

Supporting Everton and doing a dry January is not doing my mental health good at all.

I think we take the money for Stones. He may look good on the ball but fuck me, Everton is not learning curve for Chelsea. He needs to be told safety first. Always..

Obvs - wake up chaps and smell the coffee. Why would they?

They'd have to pay off his contract and what's the point (from their perspective) if we're not in a relegation battle

We'll be safe so he'll be safe. That's it

The problem is it's like deja view at every home game!

Start slow, let the other team get confidence and go behind. Chase the game get back into it and more poor defensive play means we go in at half time behind.

Second half slow tempo to start again, by 60 minutes 2 or 3 of the players look absolutely knackered. (I'd love to know what they do in training)

65-75 minutes like for like replacement , slight build up before falling short again!

I don't know what Martinez says in the pre-Match and half time talk but it isn't working.

We gave a poor team confidence today and didn't put them under anywhere near enough pressure. I absolutely hate it when there is no pressure on the ball!

I want players who play crap to be told their crap and get their bloody finger out! Not be told they are magnificent and are only gonna get better. The stats don't lie.....and its Roberto out I'm afraid.

Thanks for the rollercoaster but some of those players won't be here in the summer and I wouldn't trust him with the cash!

Sorry for the rant but that was a lacklustre performance too far!

Today probably the worst first half of football I have seen Everton play at Goodison for many a year!!

For now Joe Royle would do till the end of the season. Week after week, we hear the same thing "We need to learn from our mistakes"... We NEVER do.

I'm afraid all sense of hope is gone until Martinez is sacked. The depressing thing is, we all know that ain't going to happen! To think a World Class manager like Marcelo Bielsa is sat with his feet up at the moment. I guess our board only do lazy appointments though.

I will turn up, but will Everton? It seems that just about every game we start off so slow, it takes at least. Fifteen minutes before they wake up and usually when the opposition has scored.

John Stones must be reading his own reviews by the ones who love him, why when he gets the ball does he stop look and wait until he is tracked so he can do a couple of twirls then pass back?

Swansea chased and harried, Everton played statues, I thought Baines was the only one in the first half who seemed to have the urgency to go forward.

So many today did not turn up, I would exclude Barry in that remark, is RM telling the team to stay in there own half to stop conceding goals? If he is it is not working.

If Everton play twice as well on Wednesday they will still lose three nil, I like many others do not like to call the manager but he has had time, money and the players to turn the season into a good one, not the disjointed, disinterested team he is manager off at present.

Please go and give someone else a chance, the only thing you will achieve is a big payday for the club when the players exit in summer.

I'll stand by my argument that Howard lacks courage, doesn't command his area and back four like a decent keeper should and has cost us many points in the past two years. He's needed replacing for a while and this negligence is costing us.

Martinez's job is safe.....unless new owners come in. They probably already know who they want. I'd love to see those books!

Stones was forced to take it in the area and force the kick to be retaken.

This shit sums us up. In Martinez' first season he insisted we played this way and we got pressed and caught out numerous times.

We are still fucking about at the back.

Sometimes we have to hoof it and clear the lines.

This go white cannot change

Season three the idea of even being able to defend has gone. Bournemouth, Stoke, Chelsea. Does anyone feel comfortable when we're in the lead in the 90th minute nevermind the 80th?! Martinez does not know how to set up a defensive unit nor do his senior coaching staff. The only way he will change it is to bring in someone similar to Steve Bould at Arsenal. If he doesn't it's only a matter of time.

We go out of the League Cup then it's season over (bar an unlikely FA Cup run) and does he get anymore time? The talent in the squad is class going forward but we need to learn the basics of how to defend.

This gobshite cannot change

You know who I mean

Parking that to one side for now, this horrific result pretty much finished our league season. There is no suggestion this team can put a run of wins together to even challenge for the Europa places never mind top four.

Wednesday is now the be all and end all. If Martinez makes some ruthless changes for that game and we somehow get through, coupled with some positive intent in the transfer market before the window closes then I'd suggest it's better for all that we hold off on deciding his future until the summer.

I would have been happy to give him another few years to put his squad in place but his insistence on keeping Howard in is now a deal breaker for me. It's unacceptable now and he should be fired if he ever starts him again. I felt this about 3 months ago.

Anyway we all know nothing will change but I am still in the pro Bobby camp for what it's worth, just. On to Wednesday and hopefully the game of our season.

I've seen the pass a few times, and both of them need an uppercut. Stones needs to stop messing about with the ball and not give such pressurised passes to teammates, and Howard should have either gone all out to the ball or seen that the attacker was going into touch.

Howard also needs to be more of a leader from the back, something which has been lacking in his game since Moyes left. He should be yelling his lungs out at Stones, directing him and giving him an absolute mouthful when he screws up. Instead you can see him just watching quietly, not organising his back four at all.

MOB

The 1st half was poor, I admit, but understandable when 2 of the players who almost everyone here was baying for to start, had to be replaced wishing the 1st 25 minutes. You can't legislate for something like the poor back pass by Stones and Howard's hesitation to come for the ball, but okay Martinez has stuck his neck out over Howard/Stones so fair enough - Martinez has to take responsibility for that goal. I also agree that we were lucky to get the equaliser (deflection off a defender takes the ball into the net). The 2nd goal though was a combination of poor refereeing and plain bad luck. So, on the balance, yes Swansea deserved to be 1 goal up at half time.
2nd half: it was all one way, but things just didn't fall in place - it was one of those days. Coleman will have nightmares about his miss for months.
To conclude, we deserved to get 1 point out this game, not more, and that is not acceptable at home against relegation candidates.
We have thrown away another season after being in a decent position mid-way through the season.
I may be alone but I wouldn't write off Martinez yet - he has set-up an exciting team, but where he has erred is in thinking that that would be enough to start winning. He needs to go back to the drawing board and build some steel in the team. Howard will be eased out at the end of the season surely, it is obvious Stones is still not mentally strong enough - Jags should be part of the CB pairing to bring in some solidity and calm head, it should be clear now to everyone why Martinez rates McCarthy so highly (just look at the results after McCarthy got injured, needs no further explanation), Lukaku, Barkley and Deulofeu while being individually exciting, need some experience and calm heads around - dare I say it, guys like Kone, Osman, Barry, Pienaar to make them play their game. At the end of the day, the young talent that we have got us all very excited, but it is obvious that they are a long way from being the finished goods. The tragedy for Martinez and Everton is that he might be building up the talent for someone else to enjoy before they deliver for Everton.

Our home form is dreadful and I am pleased I live too far away to be subjected to this every fortnight- at least I can turn off Sky!

Offer it to Jose and use the Naismith money. Even Rafa would be preferable to this as he knows how to organise a defence and with the players we have we should be an attractive proposition for an ambitious manager.

I had hoped Roberto could turn this around but there are no signs and things really will start to slide big-time if this is not addressed quickly now.

I remember Martinez's first season and the home match with Newcastle early in the season; in the first half we were sensational... I have always held onto a belief that he will turn it round, but not now.

I coach Under-11s and everything that Everton do along the back line is what I tell them never to do. It's pathetic. Even with a few minutes to go, we are slowly slowly passing the ball with no urgency to get the ball forward.

I am old enough to remember the '70s when, if everything else failed, we would send Mick Lyons up front to try and grab a goal. Awful to watch but goddamit at least there was a sense of urgency which this current team never shows.

Hate to say it, Roberto, but it really is time to go.

Instead he was doing keepy-uppies and laughing and joking with the subs on the pitch!!

Get the man in the dressing room and motivate them

Swansea 1st, 8th
Wigan 16th,15th,16th,18th (relegated)
Everton 5th,11th, bottom half probably

The man hasn't improved a club for ten years now. He needs to go or we may go down next season.

Goodison was once a hard place to come and get a result not any more, there was a time when anything you got at Goodison had to be earned, well drilled organised and hard to beat thats what we should be trying to get back to. Having to score 3 times a game, we wont win many games of football playing that way.

Cleverley put a shift in today, as did Barry and Deulofeu. The rest were not at it. Even in the last 5 minutes we get the same sidewards and backwards passes... the sort most teams try when they need to defend a lead.

Stones looks sulky as well as cocky, but Howard took a glimpse at Ayew, yet still did not react quickly enough. Great servant, but too arrogant by far... and too slow.

I feel sorry for the fans who paid to see this at Goodison today. We are stuck with a Manager who refuses to say..."Yeah, sorry fans, but we fucked up today."

As for another manager inheriting these players well it happened to Billy Bingham. He bought a few class players but didn't get the best out of them. Gordon Lee did.

I would take the money in this window if possible.

The optimists claimed that it could not happen, Roberto had learned the secrets of defending, all would be well, his 5 year plan was to revolutionize the clubs fortune's, if we just had patience.

After going to today's game, how hollow those claims seem now. I was disgusted with the lack of organization and game planning, it was rank amateurish, a hallmark of this manager's time here. Yet worse is to follow before we finally see the back of him, mark my words.

The sad thing is that if this was happening at any of the clubs we strive to compete with the supporters would be demanding the change. There would be marches, there would be signs throughout the stadium, the call in shows would be bombarded with supporters.

Spurs would never accept it. Liverpool would never accept it. Chelsea sacked Mourinho.

West Ham said safety was not enough and sent Allardyce packing for this season. But Everton, we're not respected by the press and the footballing world because we don't respect ourselves. We don't demand better, so we won't get it. We promoted a relegated manager to be our manager. Only a lower tier club would do such a thing.

I will try - once more - to explain to you what a liability your boy is.

Roberto Martinez wants his team to play out from the back - with me so far ?
Now, to play out from the back, you need to be brave and you need to be able trust your fellow defenders ( including your Keeper - Still with me ?

When you play such a game the rewards can be high, but so are the risks, you need everyone wide awake.

The last thing you need . .the very last thing you need, when you are playing this type of football is for your goalie to develop sleep apnoea, You want to know that he can deal with a pass when you play it. You expect that HE is expecting it . . . The ball from Stones (who was a cockey bastard all afternoon) was not fantastic, but is was routine fr any keeper and I'd have been seriously disappointed with my missus if she couldnt have dealt with this one.

You want advise on training your goalkeepers ? stop it, stop it right now

The manager must take the flak for his tactics, selections, substitutions, motivational skills and PR bullshit - but I think the players need to take much of the blame for performances like today's. Too many are believing their own publicity and press valuations – all very 'Emperor's new clothes!'

Forget Europe, I'd settle for our current mid-table mediocrity at present. 11 points to safety? I'll be counting them off -– because if we can't beat Swansea at home, there is no guarantee of any points from any team at present.

It is time for Robles to be given the starting berth, but it is even more obvious, that Stones needs a break, and we should start at City with Jags/Mori.

We wont get through anyway, but Stones is costing us every week.

We focus on the errors that led to the goals but there were so many more. Stones was horrendous today. A hospital pass to Oviedo in the second half was cleared thanks to good luck. Hesitation with the ball at his feet subsequently before finding Barkley who was fouled. A poor touch from a long ball almost gifted Swansea an opportunity. The rot extended to Howard who rolled the ball to Stones who had a man on and almost lost possession.

For both goals, Ayew makes runs which are simply not picked up. This repeatedly happened against Stoke, Leicester and Chelsea as runners were allowed to go with no one picking them up.

Repeated individual errors, lack of tempo, poor concentration and focus are on display in every single game.

Throw in a lack of fitness - so many players appeared spent and in injury time we simply had no puff to launch attacks and you have a dreadful combination of factors which leads to easy avoidable goals being conceded.

The rot has well and truly set in and even if Martinez is sacked it will take time to eradicate. However, he must be sacked sooner rather than later as certain players are in a comfort zone and getting away with terrible performances which will keep doing them, and the team, a great deal of harm over the course of the season.

'we're not respected by the press and the footballing world because we don't respect ourselves. We don't demand better, so we won't get it.'

Spot on, in order to be taken seriously you have to show intent. Many people laughed hard when the Leicester and West Ham owners were talking about being top 4 clubs. We don't respect ourselves you are correct, if we did this wouldn't be acceptable. Plucky Everton hoping for a cup upset to keep fans happy, disgusting!

The fact that you continually back Howard suggests that you just don't and never will, get it. Either that or you're on a wind up....by the way, you're not the only person on here that plays or coaches.

Martinez could well lose his job over this; he's painted himself into a corner over Howard. If he drops him now everyone will scream it's been obvious for at least two years, he'll look like the stubborn fool he is.

He also mentioned that we could be talking about a different scoreline given the chances we had.

His plan in the opening stages was to let Swansea have the ball in their own half. Not quite sure what this is designed to achieve when your at home but there you go.

As soon as they had the ball in their half we retreated to our own half presumably to pounce and counter attack at pace - or so someone thought.

The problem was they began to pass it about - albeit in their half - while we sat back and watched.

This had three effects which then set the tone for most of the game. Firstly they started to tune in to the game and get some sort of rhythm going. Second because we weren't putting and pressure on them whatsoever their confidence grew and they became more comfortable.

However by far the worse effect - and not for the first time - the pace of our play becomes slower and we slide in to our stroll around mode a la Barcelona. We seem to lose both intent and intensity.

For me the direness of this game had, as much as any game this season, the dead hand of Martinez' at its centre.

Instead of getting at them and trying to unsettle them - which is what we should be doing to any lower tabled team at home - we allowed them grow in to the game.

Whatever Martinez says to his players before a name I can guarantee that he never says: take the game to them; play at a high intensity; and whatever else happens make sure you bloody well WIN.

Quite frankly I'm getting thoroughly pissed off making the journey home from Goodison thoroughly pisses off. Martinez need to talk less about players being in a good moment and think about giving some good moments to the supporters. Until he goes we our mid-table at best.

Also, I'm sick this magnificent character we showed in the second half of games as he puts it, we still ain't winning, 1 in 10 games we've won and no Europa League to blame and the best squad we've had for years.

John stones is wrapped up in his own hype, sell him for £50M (if it's still on offer) as we need a great centre half now not in 3 or 4 yrs if he fills his potential,he's gonna go anyway so get what we can and buy some one for now lots of good ones out there for £20M or thereabouts.

No good winning the League cup and finishing 14th cos our best players will be off and who'll want to sign for a mid table club!

Anyone can sit on the fence and fanny around hiding behind all of those (including several posters on TW).

It's almost as though there's tacit acceptance that supporting Everton means supporting Martinez and in not doing the latter that somehow makes you disloyal. It does not. As for the pre-season TW editorial plea of more positivity, that's becoming increasingly challenging.

The apologists come out with ifs, buts and maybes which makes them as bad as him in my opinion. (E.g "you can't legislate for every individual error". Maybe not but he keeps selecting those who err repeatedly which is bordering on stupidity.)

It's the results that matter regardless of how obvious, boring or repetitive that statement may be.
My opinion - expressed on here a year ago after the home draw with WBA - has not changed.
RM should be out of here.
(Nb. Should be - though I doubt the board will act so swiftly).
He has not taken us forward and will not deliver CL.
He might win a cup. If so, great, thanks and bye bye.

The usual challenge to this is who would do better? I've no idea but I didn't choose RM either. And there's plenty who could not do worse.

This club has been fuelled by mediocrity for so long now that's it's in our DNA. We should be top 6 minimum this season.

RM's level? Wigan / Bolton.
And yet he somehow still retains his position here.
A joke.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35396388

1) It is clear that there is a lack of leadership on the pitch. Fair play to Barry, he played well as captain. Just don't see a Neville or Cahill figure anywhere. The sort of pro's who don't accept players not giving their all. It shows everytime we go onto that pitch. Really does. The key players we have now are, frankly, gutless. That is why we throw so many leads away.

2) Howard. The guy is clearly shot. Gutless and clearly does not inspire confidence of the backline. Martinez's support of him is baffling and just sets the tone for the rest of the players. How can you possibly respect his judgment if you are a player?

3) We play to a philosophy that is totally flawed. Stones and Howard for the first goal was laughable. The rolling the ball to players with two men around him is laughable. The team lacks balance. Too many unpredictable players who you can't rely on. Deulofeu was a total spectator for 60 minutes. You can't win games with such players. Barkley was poor as well. Key players in this team, bur who you never know what you will get from.

4) He is a good guy, but Oviedo simply has no role at this club. Especially considering we have Galloway and Garbutt still.

I would draw a line under the season. We will finish 11th or something. Let anyone go who wants to. Stones is a great player but not what we need right now. If someone will give us 40-50 for him, great. Lukaku, and I say this with a heavy heart, will want out. Don't really blame him, even if we finished 4th or 5th, I do not think he sees his future at this level. PSG or United, If they want him, will get him.

We then rebuild. For me it would not be Martinez to do it. De Boer would be my choice. If not, maybe Benitez or Mark Hughes. Add to this list Vincenzo Montella as a wildcard.

Martinez is a good bloke, and a decent manager. I don't think this is the job for him. Plucky smaller teams maybe. Think he would do well on the continent. Not in the cash rich, ultra competitive PL though.

I come across these people often in business and in fact they are now woven right into the fabric of our society. It is the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and singing, so that you don't hear anything uncomfortable. Madness, of course.

Maybe if Martinez wins the FA Cup, or both cups, he will earn himself a bit more time. But we have had over a season and a half of woeful under performance now. The clear potential in our squad won't remain forever, and a mid-table finish will see the best of our players getting itchy feet.

Personally, I'd give the job to Howe.

Deulofeu was very good today incidentally. We will need him at his best on Wednesday.

As I posted last week why did RM change the defence which had kept a clean sheet against Man City for the Chelsea match?. What's the link with today? Oviedo at right back. Not the player's fault, he is an okay fill in for Baines.

RM is a dead man walking and deserves to be.

I don't know why Jags wasn't named in the squad today but he will definitely be needed if we are to have any chance of making Wembley on Wednesday. I'd go with Jagielka and Funes Mori on Wednesday night .

When Lukaku is pitched to play one to one on a centre half and where it appears in 10 minutes that he is not going to win challenges, why not mix it up to get him to stretch defences? Does it happen? No it doesn't.

Bring on a right footed midfield sub (Cleverley) to play him on the left when a two footed player already in the team can use that talent (potentially) to better effect.

Mind you that two footed player falls over his own feet and runs down blind channels you couldn't trust him to negotiate out of a cul de sac. He is a forward midfielder, almost a number 10. He plays his best there but when he does, the next games see him dropped back. Barkley is his name, play him properly or he will go and perform better elsewhere.

Stones is becoming a legend in his own mind. More strength in the passes son and that does not mean mindless kiscks upfield.

WTF has happened to Baines? Scruffy throwback to 1970s and joins in the clu de sac game.

If I had gone today the reason for my illness might have caused me more serious troubles. Glad I will be an armchair supporter for a while - at least there is an off button

Onto the game, poor defending by Stones who sold Howard short, he was to blame. Is it me or does he give the impression that he is not bothered, and wants away; he is far to casual and strolls about rather than marking and closing down advancing players.

Never in a million years is he worth the £30-40M that's being mentioned on current seasons performances. Prior to the game Sky were showing some of the goals we had conceded during the season and sadly he was to blame for most of them, either by not marking or tracking.

He should have taken a lesson from Williams of Swansea who worked tirelessly to mark Lukaku out of the game, he may not be fancy but he defends!!

As for the team, I thought without Barry we would just fall about, I just wish he had been with us 10 years ago.

And a final message for Roberto, get the ball out of defence as quick as we can, we are allowing the opposition to stack up then we cant find an opening, very poor tactics shown today.

What was missing, and has been missing for the last eighteen months, was effort, energy movement and enthusiasm; nothing will change with Martinez in charge and there is no-one on the coaching staff who can change it.

Anybody who thinks we can't go down could be in for a huge shock while this manager is allowed to run the club.

1. Any point in Dennis Lawrence turning up? as throughout the warm up he just had his hand in his pockets?!?

2. Before a ball was even kicked I knew 'Ashley Willaims' would have Lukaku's number (and it will be the same next year). I thought 'Williams' was rather impressive today and he always seems to play well against us (the formation does help him a lot though)

3.This passing the ball at the back (which led to there penalty, is something installed by Martinez and it needs to change!)

4. Just before the start of the second half the swansea fitness coach went through some warm up drills on the side of the pitch (so they were ready when they kicked off), while we just strolled back onto the pitch.

5. I thought oviedo was really coming into the game second half but then bobby takes him off?

6. Funny how swansea 'new manager' showed his trump card by putting on a centre back to close the game out (a tactic which I thought really worked) something Martinez would never do!

7. To end, the formation didn't and doesn't work (i could see from the first 15 minutes Lukaku was struggling on his own up there) added to this the points above shows Martinez is still rather amateur, as in all honesty swansea don't have better players than us, however, they were set up better! and that blame lies on the manager!

I'm sick and tired of being let down time and time again... we have supported them for 20 trophyless years.

THIS TEAM AND THIS MANAGER ARE FUCKING SPINELESS...

Time for this fucker to do one. He is an absolute joke.

Martinez seems oblivious to all this and seems content to be happy spouting managerial claptrap.

Swans defended very well in 2nd half – but we help by so often being slow. Barkley should be dropped – apart from rare pieces of class, he is generally slow, lazy & ineffective – faces our goal rather than the opponents far too often and dwells on the ball. Thought Pienaar did quite well, Funes Mori too and Barry excellent again. Bad news about Besic & Mirallas – we need them 100% fit and back in the team asap. – Wednesday night looking even tougher right now. But City’s defence ain’t too good either, and they need to attack us, so hope we’ll get chances on the counter – NO SURRENDER YET!

No way RM will be sacked now whilst in due diligence, so we need to support him and the team in spite of current results. Too much criticism etc from us will not help the team perform better.

There is no doubt that we do have a talented squad and we should thank him for that. Unfortunately he cannot manage them, or think on his feet and act; hence where we are today.

Good points from David Barks and Jim Knightley; however, analysis is pointless. If Martinez is not sacked, he will destroy our club. His vanity and self-interest is mind boggling.

Wigan, under many other coaches, would not have been relegated; Martinez stuck to his asinine principles, destroyed them permanently, and fucked off. He was never fit to be our coach and if he had been at Anfield, he'd have been sacked a year ago.

It was to Kevin Campbell some years back to thank him for saving us from the drop and after today I pulled out the writing pad to send my 2nd to plead for the board to get rid of this Spanish fool but it would only get binned and a wasted postage stamp so I put it back in the draw.

Seething about no lessons learnt.

Real problem is with BK as he lives in a bigger fantasy world than Bobby. Any news on the takeover?

Wake up and smell the coffee, we are in the prem to make up the numbers and no one, other than we Evertonians (more in hope than expectation) expect anything else. Martinez was brought in to achieve what this club has become accustomed to since the eighties, mediocrity, and so far this season, he's even falling short of that.

If anything was ever going to change under Kenwright, it would have done by now, it hasn't and it won't.

In his post match interviews I wish he were asked about his diabolical record at Goodison in the last 12 months or the continuous calamity defending that we witness week-in week-out. I want him to feel under pressure and that the fans won't accept these pathetic displays, 1 win in 10 and he thinks we are a force that should be feared where in truth we are a joke – everyone must love playing Everton.

And to finish on one more negative note, my money is going on 3-0 City on Wednesday night, play like we did today and they will blow us away.

It's difficult to add what's already been posted, but once again we saw Howard trying to clear with his feet rather than smothering the ball; why? because his bottle's gone that's why. This 6'-4" cage fighter doesn't want to be hurt, and in situations like that where goalies need to be brave, his reaction is like an over the hill boxer he wants to stay out of trouble.

On several threads I have posted RM's defensive record in the 7 years he has been a Premier League manager – and it makes gruesome reading and it isn't going to get any better anytime soon, unless he changes his 'philosophy'. But he isn't going to change even though the opposition have sussed it out.

Swansea pinned us in by closing the back 4 down and scrabbling for the second ball – how many times have we seen that. Once in front, 10 men behind the ball in the knowledge that our mids very rarely run ahead of Rom, and prefer to fuck about on the 18-yard box looking for the perfect opening. Look at the balls Gerry was putting in; to who? Where are the midfield runners, the fat Frank or even Kevin Nolan movement.

We are at a crossroads and it needs the board to be bold; sack a manager whose teams will always ship goals. and scour the earth for a manager that can organise and inspire... don't hold your breath.

Martinez is a nice guy, the players all seem to be nice guys. There's a lot of talent in that team but no fighters. Now a lot of people have called for a big burly centre back but I believe we need a mean, tough little bugger in MF who will fight, scream and contest every ball and decision. That's why I said we need someone like Joey Barton in our team. He wouldn't stand for this lethargic, slow and ponderous football some of our players seem happy to hide behind. We don't have one player who will stand up and say, "enough is enough".

Besic and McCarthy are good players but they are too nice. We need a Norman Hunter type in MF who will lead by example. Someone who will put his boot, and head, in where it hurts.

Yes Deulofeu put in some stunning crosses that should have been converted, but for most of the game Lukaku was our only striker in the box. I posted before I went to the game that if we had Pochettino in charge, we would be inside the top 4, and Barkley would be playing in the same role that Alli plays for Spurs.

RM should never have been given the job in the first place, and for those who said Wigan got relegated because of their poor players, well, we have a very good group of players but the same problems that happened at Wigan are the same as is happening at Everton. Like them, we play nice football but as they did concede too many goals. Now what's the common denominator? Exactly – RM.

Maybe if the miracle happens and we manage to get through against Man City; will that mean he is safe till the end of the season irrespective of how close we get to relegation. So surely if we lose to Man City then there will be absolutely nothing to save him.

Maybe now might not be the right time to appoint his long term successor, so ask Joe Royle to do it till the new owners appoint a new man for next season. Joe will at least have them organised and each player will know what is required.

We're stuck in a shit stadium with a board lacking in ambition allowing this fraud of a manager to get away with murder.

Our best players will get tired of playing for him and move on, and who can blame them?

He's built a squad with one good forward, one right back and a surplus of wingers and midfielders.

In short, he hasn't got a clue and should be sacked immediately. And take this board with you.

The philosophy of "we'll score more than you and defending is negative" just doesn't and won't work unless you happen to be Barcelona (and even they know how to defend).

Martinez has a philosophy and is too stubborn, or unwilling, to adapt it to fit into the REAL world.

I just want to reach enough points to be safe this season and then hopefully, please God, the board will thank Martinez for his efforts and sack him at the end of the season.

On the other hand... I don't even think Howard was aware of Ayew. He should know by now the game we play, to expect the pass. He seemed to hesitate before reacting.

It's time. If Robles plays well on Wednesday then he has to give him a go now. Enough is enough. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Our very own President Bush.

It's showing a bit of humility and doing simple things well rather than thinking you are Bobby Moore already rather than a raw young defender.

After years of denying the evidence of your own yes and blindly defending Martinez, I thought a penny may finally have dropped... Then you come on calling for Joey Barton?

It is far, far from good enough at the moment from Martinez and our team, but I'm not going to write him off just yet, even though my patience is becoming strained.

The irony of it though..... in September, Besic goes off inside the first ten minutes with an injury, we bring on Naismith who scores a hat-trick, we win against the league champions.

Fast-forward to January, we sell Naismith (who then scores against the RS in his first game for his new club), Besic again goes off injured in the first ten minutes, and we lose to relegation candidates. Everton, that.

That back pass have probably knocked £10 million off Stones's transfer fee. If it was up to me I'd sell him right now because in his head he's already gone. He's dreaming of Madrid or Barcelona not Everton.

Deulofeu must be pulling his hair out. Ball after ball right across the six yard box yet Lukaku isn't anywhere near them. Hanging around on the penalty spot. He could have had two goals today if he'd just move closer to the goal, but he won't.

Besic looks like another Gibson. A couple of games and his hamstring goes. See ya in six weeks. Shame because he looks like a good midfield player.

All in all another disappointing performance to add to all the other disappointing performances we've seen since RM darkened our door.

I'd be seriously concerned about the footballing future of any kid stuck learning the game under a coach who deems Tim's puss king reaction today (and almost any occasion he has to front up an onrushing opposition player) to be 'proper text book'.

I'd imagine that guy's entire 'Stopper!' syllabus would amount to watching a sixty second clip from Superman 2 and saying "Always remember guy's: Goalkeeper's are the astronaut's of grass":

">Link

"Now, piss off and let me get back to penning my fool proof Hostage Negotiation Handbook.....'Always. Have. A. Bag. Of. Haribo's. Handy.' The End."

A manager who works with a low budget and gets the most out of a team is needed! Gary Rowett at Birmingham city could be a choice! Done a great job there. The trouble is our next manager will have to save us from relegation. No pressure then!!

Well tonight I am embarrassed to be an Evertonian and be associated with that shower of shit that play for and manage my Club.

This imposter should have been shown the door over 12 months ago and here we are now discussing exactly the same issues.

If this clown manages to escape relegation this season for sure he will be successful next.

We were asked to be more positive with our posts this season, well they will be when this clown goes.

We're unlikely to go down but maybe we're now beginning to show relegation form and many other sides have gone down despite being too good to do so. If we go through on Wednesday, it could be a disaster. We were almost there too but we have been found out and our peers have done better than us.

I will say also that it's likely that the club itself is in crisis with Kenwright very ill and the chances high of us becoming yet another American NFL styled franchise club. I fear for the club now, perhaps for its very existence.

We are perhaps a team in crisis but how does a takeover automatically put our very existence in danger? Unless of course you know something about the potential owners that the rest of us don't.

We have been a club that has been in crisis for most of the Premier League era, otherwise, we wouldn't have had to sell off our best players to keep the wolf from the door on many occasions.

Going through on Wednesday may be the shot in the arm that the team and the fans need, it may be unlikely but it is still possible, a bigger disaster will be if we go there and roll over like we did in Kiev last season that could be a dagger through the heart of the club.

Colin G, we don't need an idiot like Barton, we need someone like Cahill. Someone who wouldn't tolerate the arrogance Stones is displaying by the bucket load. There is absolutely no one who gets in the players faces to tell them their performance is unacceptable. What with Martinez telling them its ok to make mistake after mistake and no one on the pitch saying anything its no wonder we are where we are. You can be talented kids and not make mistakes.....ask Fergies class of 92 for confirmation. Its all about how you prepare them for life in the Premier league. The EPL is not a place to make mistakes but our glorious leader is oblivious of that.

Dont know why anyone is surprised by the rubbish atmosphere at the game today, its been like that for 2 years now. Thanks a lot Senor Martinez.

Thankfully I stopped listening to his post match interviews a long time ago. There is nothing he can say that will justify that or anything else that has gone on for the last 2 years.

He should have gone last season but didnt. He should be gone already this season but isn't. How many more games do we have to tolerate?

What is the board doing? Surely they see what is happening! Same excuses week-in, week-out, nothing changes. The stats are absolutely appalling and anyone who thinks he needs time or until the summer is taking some serious medication or smoking the back street stuff.

Any other team in the league would get shot of a manager with his record and, unlike most managers in the Premier League, he has a squad rich with talent. I am lost for words and completely bemused as to why he is not gone already. My choice would be Mourinho until end of season.

My own thoughts are still that nobody on the planet could be crazy enough to buy Everton while we need a ground and with all of our other liabilities.

I don't know as yet who should be the manager, but clearly it isn't Martinez. He has the tools to do a great job, but not the ability. Sad. Time to get rid, and very quickly... :-(

You had 10 internationals starting and 3 more joining from the bench. Your best player was the only one yet to gain a full cap. With such talent and experience, why was it all so woeful ? The answer may appear in your mirror.

Time to 'foxtrot oscar', Mr Martinez, before half or more of your team leave before you.

After 50+ years of being a blue, never have I been so indifferent to a defeat. You have even managed to knock the passion out of us supporters as well.

It's like the points don't matter sometimes, and his comments after the Chelsea game saying that we won that match were just incredible.

It's something you might say to kids when you are trying to teach them the game, and I would love to know what the senior players (excluding Tim), really thought of such stupidity?

I always thought you were a steadfast supporter of the current regime and, according to your good self, that we were a well-run club.

If he is, then get well, Mr Kenwright.

You are by far the greatest of all Bill's actors. When is this horror show going to end?

I am aware that you seem to be loosing faith in Martinez, but don't worry – you have a better chance of winning the Lotto than BK firing him, as that means he made a mistake in hiring him.

The lad can obviously play well with the ball at his feet and I'm sure (hope) he goes onto have a great career but at the moment he cannot DEFEND – he's a defender! There was a world class defender on the pitch today! His name was Ashley Williams. He blocked, tackled, marked Rom out of the game, organised, headed and DEFENDED!

Until Stones can master these skills, he will continue to be a liability as however good you are on the ball (which wasn't that good either today!) giving goals away as a defender is not good enough! It's a bit like having a striker who doesn't score but is world class at coming back to defend corners!

Difficult situation for all now! All eggs now in the basket on Wednesday!

Now it's the fans fault... "We're a team that knows exactly what it is doing" – this man is a fucking joke. Is it any wonder we are in trouble when the manager of the team comes out with absolute bollocks week after week. I would have more respect as would any reasonable person if he just told the truth. Honestly, is he serious?

Roberto Martinez reckons his Everton players play with doubt and fear at Goodison Park and has suggested "we need to make it comfortable for our players".

Everton have only won three games at home all season, and when asked about their defensive mishaps against Swansea, he replied: "It happens at home more than anywhere else. I don't think we have that sort of doubt and fear [away from home].

"We're a team who knows exactly what it is doing. We've got really good individuals with fantastic character who care about what they do but our defensive record at home this season is not good enough.

"It doesn't go along with what we are as a team and doesn't go along with what we produce away from home. It's clearly something we need to work on.

"We have six games left at home and they're vital games for us. We need to make it comfortable for our players. We need to make sure we find a way to perform at Goodison."

He showboats and this is catching up with him as teams will target him during a game. Press him and he will make any amount of mistakes.

"When someone crosses their arms, it usually means that they're closed for arguments. By crossing the arms, a barrier is put in front of the body, as some sort of protection. Putting an object in front of you may be the same signal.

Another reason for crossing arms may be that you're feeling vulnerable or insecure. The crossing of arms may then be interpreted as a sort of "self-hug", to comfort yourself."

Hmmm.

The atmosphere in the ground, to someone who watched the game on TV, from the kick-off, was quiet at best... poisonous at worst.

Do I wish to excoriate players and manager alike? Not really. Would it help anyone? Not really. I support Everton, the club, players, manager and hope, yes hope, for more composure, intensity in our play and less of the fear factor, which was all too prevalent today and most weeks, particularly at home.

The performances leave a lot to be desired but the solutions are more involved than is generally accepted on here where sackings and dismissals are generally the order of the day.

A bit more support would undoubtedly help especially when the going gets tough(er) which it probably will.

Sport is just that, a sport. The weekly haranguing of players and manager from armchair critics, many of whom are patently prejudiced, is hardly likely to improve anyone's performance.

Mr Martinez? If these useless cunts aren't motivated to work hard from the kick off it's your lack of motivation!

Absolute utter embarrassment, the perfect confidence building exercise for our big semi-final. Start like that on Wednesday and it will be all over inside 20 mins.

He should long ago have been sacked, but if that happens nothing will change with immediate effect because the players are visibly weaker in just about every way than their opponents are, week after week after week. For a new manager to get them into shape will take ages, although we may just avoid sliding into a genuine relegation battle.

I really think that Martinez has long since "lost the dressing room" because last season in April the players openly said they had decided to play the old Everton way and this season they've again said they've had words with the manager. In any other club this more than infers the manager has lost their confidence.

But as professional footballers they need to maximise their potential, for money and, erm, pride, and to do that they need to be selected to play by the manager. Once selected they need to play as he tells them, or they get dropped to their personal cost. In many matches this season and last I've seen our players look dispirited, angry and scared as they try to adapt to Martinez's mantra because they know, they surely know, what everyone else in football knows.

.... And if anyone's still wondering, it's that Martinez is crap.

Statistics that provide a damning indictment of the incompetence of this man. He's absolutely clueless. Wednesday is massive for him. If we lose and go out that's it. It's the League Cup or bust.

The Martinez supporters say 'Wait, be patient, he's building something special, give him time' etc. How long are we supposed to wait? Three seasons is more than enough time to judge a manager and we are going backwards. This 'something special' should have come this season.

This was the perfect opportunity to finish top 4. Liverpool are inconsistent with a load of flops, Man Utd are atrocious under Van Gaal, yet they beat us 3-0, and the likes of City and Arsenal are inconsistent.

With this 'most talented' squad since the 80s apparently, and no Europe to hinder us, there were no excuses for Martinez to fall back on. We should be pushing for top 4 now and at a minimum be in the top 6, yet instead we're in mid table, in the same situation as last season.

He hasn't changed and he won't. The next 3 games are crucial for him now. If we go out of both cups and fail to beat Newcastle, he is surely finished. No other top side would be as loyal to him as this.

There's no pressure on him at all. He's in the safest job in the country and he knows it. He can stumble around and continuously make the same mistakes over and over again knowing that he won't be sacked. It's not acceptable and this run of form is not good enough.

Lose on Wednesday, that's it. Finished. Adios. A lot of fans will turn on him if that happens.

Up until Xmas, Lukaku looked the part; since the inevitable links came via the gutter press he's done jack shit. I'm sick to fucking death of hearing at the game and off most of my mates, if I'm honest. "Oh the service is shit, oh he's feeding off scraps"...

Not today in the 2nd half, he didn't: balls were played into areas where a so-called world class striker would thrive on them. Not Lukaku... he spewed it after an hour when he knew the impressive Williams had him in his pocket.

That said, he needs a partner alongside him as the lone striker role doesn't obviously suit him. But I'm afraid he's believing his own press. He's never been short of confidence has our Rom. The trouble is, he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. Or some of our fans, for that matter...

Unusual approach.. although it worked at Wigan where the players did stay and the fans stopped turning up.

Can he please remove his head from his arse?

From the kick-off, it looked like they had been told to do the bare minimum, save energy and hit them on the break... hence Del AND Kev. Wise decision, except I lay awake wondering how much longer are we going to endure this shite Philosophy.

Besic; he did exactly the same vs Chelsea; bust a gut for 3/4s of the length of the pitch then pulled up lame soon after.

Most, if not all of Moyes's Physios jumped or were pushed. Haven't seen any Improvement with this new Supremo either. We're still Hammy Central...

It's going to take some monumental effort on Wednesday. But this being Everton I can see us going out on some obscure away goals shenanigans.

Sooner somebody bites the bullet on this manager, the better.

Carragher is right, all this playing the ball out of defence, instead of clearing our lines, is costing us dearly, especially with Howard No 1, and Martinez is too arrogant to change.

Today I had the epiphany moment where I stopped believing. We've seen fleeting glimpses of what we are capable of, like in the 1st leg in the League Cup against Man City. But by-and-large, we don't live up to the promise and flatter to deceive, persisting with this high pressing game.

As others have alluded to, sometimes we just need to punt the ball up the field or into Row Z instead of always passing back and playing from the back. GKs are like an extra outfield player these days and Tim Howard is no sweeper. You'd think Roberto would have realised this a long time ago, but still he persists with playing him.

Personally I think the Yank takeover will happen. The talks have gone quiet because neither party is allowed to comment until after the 28-day period where the John Jay Moores consortium have the exclusivity of looking at the books.

If it happens, I think they'll bring someone else in as manager, unless we win on Wednesday which might give Martinez until the summer.

If we do bring in a new manager, I hope it's not some left-field appointment you sometimes see when foreign owners buy a club. I think the profile of the manager we bring in will have a lot to do with how much they're willing to invest. Jose Mourinho would be a statement of intent but, as others posters have mentioned, Koeman and Eddie Howe would also be good appointments IMO.

What makes some Blues think that the likes of Koeman or Howe would leave their clubs to come to Everton anyway?

A new manager could probably increase our league position by £5 or 6 million. Worth the payoff.

The ARROGANCE of RM really is shocking !

Watched the game on Sky .... really sad thing for me was the crowd seemed that they'd almost given up.

As for Koeman. I think Saints are treading water a bit this season. Much like ourselves and I think he could be persuaded if new owners gave promises of investment.

I think it would be even possible to bring in Mourinho if the new owners have a clear plan of building us a new ground. Of course I think we'd be more likely to have Eddie Howe as manager, but I'd be very happy at that appointment.

The worst case scenario for ant incoming manager is that Rom and Stones will be off, but look on the bright side. The new manager potentially has £100M to build a team.

Sorry, but I think you're running us down a little there, Ray.

Forget, Mourinho – in his eyes, we really are small fry. He can't manage without a mega budget, and, besides, I wouldn't want him anyway.

Lose on Wedenesday, and Martinez should be relieved of his duties. A cup win can buy him a little more time, but we also have to rapidly improve on our current position in the
table.

Saying that, I don't believe he will ever be sacked as long as we stay out of the bottom three. The ambition of our owners is to simply survive in the Premier League whilst they wait for their pay-day.

Does anyone think Martinez has received a call tonight telling him his job is on the line? No, neither do I.

I think the Stones saga was a contributing factor for him losing it this season. Who'd have ever thought we'd have won a mind games battle against a master like Mourinho.

I think you're right about Mourinho. I only think he could be a possibility if any potential owners wanted to actually take us to the next level instead than settling for top 6-8 finishes.

Today Jags is rested and yet again the whole defence has a new line up why? So Jags can play on Tuesday. If we don't get those two positions back that decision will have cost us over £6M+
Our spell in Europa last year chasing silverware cost us at least £10M in lost income from the Premier Leaguep. I hope his chase of League Cup silverware does not cost us our premiership status

Who could replace him and guarantee success? I think it has to be Mark Warburton look at his brief but impressive past and current performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Warburton.

To quote one line on Warburton's recruitment policy "which would include recruitment being based on mathematical modelling and statistics allied to normal scouting methods" Makes a change to Martinez's "I wanted to buy him a few years ago" or "he has played for me in the past (like Kone)."

Besic has shown the way to control the tempo of a game in the last few games and once he was off it became all too deliberate again. We made some decent chances but needed to do it many times more than we did.

Disappointed that Tom Cleverley ended up squeezed into left hand-side almost treading on toes of Pienaar and Baines. He needed drop back towards Barry and to switch to backing that pair up and letting them be the creative ones much earlier than he did.

Oviedo is just too left-footed to play on the right, and I think that affected Stones decision making on the ball at times today. Far too much went through Stones today. We have seen some decent longer balls to Lukaku open up games recently and that tactic was pretty much abandoned for no reason that I could see today.

Really not looking forward to rest of the week now.

We're now a point off 14th and four off 16th. It would only take a couple more bad results before Martinez position really must become untenable. But who the hell is sailing out particular ship at the moment anyway? Kenwright is absent. Woods is silent and Earl is the invisible man.

Also think it's time to change formation because the players we have can't handle it. 4-2-3-1 leaves us there to be carved open. Much prefer to see 4-3-2-1.

C'mon Everton learn to fucking defend!

My biggest fear is that it is the second one....

I can't see Man City letting us away with another one. We are utter garbage and they will go for the jugular, make no mistake.

Only consolation for Wednesday is Robles is back – also, I can see Martinez putting McCarthy in too early.

Just one more good performance, that's all we ask for (for now!)

A lot of people on here seem to be angry with John Stones. I can understand why – we just lost another game, and are consistently conceding bad goals. But I'm still of the opinion that John Stones is the best prospect we've had at this club since Wayne Rooney (who as a youngster was a one-off) and Stones (barring injury) will go on to be one of the very best central defenders in the world game for the next ten years.

We are definitely hurting right now; the volume of posts shows that. But the mistakes Stones made today – and in recent games – are symptomatic of much more than a young player with a "cocky attitude" taking risks; he's trying to continue to play his natural game in a side of players who are consistently under-achieving, lacking in movement and energy, and seemingly afraid of the Goodison crowd. I hope Stones continues to play his natural game as I believe it will benefit the team in the long term.

I asked what information I provided was wrong? Since you provided none, I will take it that my points were valid and you are just wearing your anti-Howard blinders. Fact is, if the poor pass isn't ever made by Stones, we don't have the conversation correct?

BTW, the ball in that instance had already been played forward and then the typical back pass from the midfield area occurred. This is nothing to so with playing out of the back, that part had been accomplished. It was a pass back to Stones and he bungled it.

I will keep on coaching and training Gks though thank you for the advice.

Sadly I think there are many who enjoy making Goodison a poisonous atmosphere in order to cost Martinez his job, whereas the majority of us who travel away appreciate the shift that the boys put on. I don't think we have much influence but Goodison is becoming an away ground for us this season and we can kiss goodbye to keeping hold of gems like john Stones, who gets worse and worse every time I see at Goodison. Why would any of these players, who are being courted by others want to keep playing at Goodison after this season. Even Barkley must be hoping someone offers him big money to get away.

Sometimes I wonder whether people on here would rather Martinez lose every game just to see him gone, rather than win something and get beat along the way. Liverpool nearly drew 4-4 to a bottom club after spending hundreds of millions and bringing in a top manager. Chelsea won the league and are now in the bottom half. Man Utd have spent over £200 mill on their team and they're awful. What do people expect?

This league is nightmare. At least we have a young squad, a manager that plays positive footballs, some England internationals and some quality players. I for one would take this season over anything I've seen here in the last 20 years.

Those who want big Dunc in or Malky Mackay or whatever you think we can attract, be careful what you wish for. We're only a bad manager away from being Villla or Newcastle.

The Chelsea business and Pique picking him for his World XI didn't help. He needs a tough, no nonsense defensive coach and, apart from Unsworth, I can't think of any at the club.

Four thousand fans from the main stand throwing their seat cushions onto the pitch; Howard Kendall waking up to find graffiti on his garage door; Trevor Steven being confronted, whilst taking a corner, as a fecking traitor; Peter Reid being told from the Lower Bullins he's a useless cunt and should feck off...

Ahh, but that was when we had different expectations.

And by the way, they were heroes to me and to all Evertonians who watched them. But you can't kid us, it's tough at the top and when your time is up or you're not giving 100% or incapable of it.

It's time to go. Stop blaming the crowd or it's intimidating atmosphere, the ferocity will make or break you. It has and always will be, our biggest strength.

I agree that people spent years whinging about watching turgid football, with run of the mill, journeyman players, and now we have a young, exciting, dynamic team of energetic young footballers who ARE going to make mistakes.

Of course results are not great, but we rarely get beat either. I agree Martinez needs to be given at least one more season, and the typical 'get rid' or 'shithouse' comments don't really say very much other than anger over a defeat.

Constant blaming, laying into our own players, creating a terrible, negative atmosphere at Goodison doesn't do anything for our players at all. I have no desire to go to the Old Lady anymore, because the atmosphere is shit – away games have always been more fun, but nowadays they're WAY more fun than home games.

I also agree that the PL is now way more competitive than ever before, and this season has shown loads of weird results and odd league positions. It's fine margins in every game that have cost us, way more than teams dominating us or forcing us to play badly. I actually think we've been playing well all season, and all bar a few weird things happening (fine margins) we could just as easily be around the European places.

Football is about entertainment, and love him or loathe him, Martinez certainly brings that.

I'll take the cultured kid with class any day. Long may he continue to play the way he does.

a) Martinez got the 'Taxi' ride tomorrow. Or that.

b) Unsworth got the job until the end of the season at least, with Sheedy as his assistant. As I hear good things about the way they set their teams to play. Bearing in mind that as an underling at the moment he has to adhere to the Martinez party line as much as possible. He was nothing if pragmatic as a player, but still not averse to football when you need to and Row Z when you have to.

Ferguson? Well at the moment he's hiding his light under a very big bushel.

I just don't think you get it. There is no "anti-Howard" thing going on, EVERY Evertonian is desperate for him to play well, he is our last line of defence and if he plays badly, we will inevitably loose.The thing is; he is and we are. You either refusing or you are incapable of seeing it.

The reason the fans cheered sarcastically when he caught a simple one, is they had witnessed his total lack of courage and conviction when faced with a ball that he was massively favourite to get. . .They were yards away and could see just how much ground the Swansea player made up. Your boy cowered and took a step backwards.
He shows an ounce of courage . . and we are not having this conversation - again.

Barkley has been heavily criticised, Stones is getting slaughtered, Last week, it was Jagielka and Duelofeu, the week before, it was Barry. You seem to he having this debate every week with somebody different. why ? because you are the only person who fails to see the one common denominator.

We played our footie in the street when we first started and most us didn't get any coaching at all until we started school when we were five, but anyone here will tell you, that one of the first things they were taught is to not wait for the ball to reach you, you ALWAYS moved to meet it. Many members of this site would have coached at some level themselves, even if it was only their own lads team and the first thing they would have passed on to their payers, would be to not wait for the ball. It's one of the fundamentals of the game. You can not win a game of football standing still.

Tim Howard would not be the first player to commit this "crime". He wasnt even the first to do it in this match . . but if this is not just pig headedness on your behalf and you REALLY didnt see him do anything wrong yesterday, I'm afraid to have to tell you, but, You have no business coaching anybody

Since when did we become a feeder club for, Man Utd, Man City, Barcelona et al...? Of course we could all sit in the stands singing Kumbaya, it's meaningless. The reality is, unless the aspirations are met of these potential world class players, they'll be gone. It's a brutal results based business. All the good faith in the world is not going to change that.

What might change that however is good management and that's where the buck lies.

Couldn't agree more.
Waking up to headlines screaming Barca, Real Madrid, City and Chelsea are locked in a four way battle for your signature with a suggested fee of 50m would unsettle even the most experienced of pro's. Fuck knows where young Stones's head must be at the moment.
Youngsters are allowed to have poor games, Youngsters under this sort of media scrutiny, should be expected to have them. His determination not to be ruffled, seems to be clouding his judgement

I didnt think I could dislike Sourness or Jaimielar anymore, but having just witnessed them slaughter the kid on Sky, I think I do

We are obviously not as knowledgeable as you and your chums who travel away. I keep on forgetting that we such be grateful for witnessing such shite week after week and in fact we should be lauding the fact that the players actually deign to put on their boots to actually run on the hallowed turf. I am particularly grateful for reminding me how lucky we are to witness the posturing of young Pele....erm sorry John Stones, see the purring of the engine of young Alan Ball....erm sorry again young Barkley.....the two are so alike I get confused....good job you are here to put me right.

We obviously have no idea at all of how football should be played. We should actually be comparing ourselves to the terrible RS team and say well we are ok. Erm think youre actually forgetting they won.

Truth is Teddy, and you too James Marshall, we are awful and there is nobody to blame but Martinez for making the shocking atmosphere at Goodison Park. The players get away with murder and I for one am sick of it. Yes the players are talented but rarely show it and stroll through the game oblivious to any kind of urgency to win the game, that is when they have the energy to do so before collapsing after 60 minutes. Sorry guys you are deluded and in a minority of 2

I've watched it and watched it again. Ayew makes about 12 yards on Howard...and Howard gave him another 5 by running in the wrong direction.

If a keeper isn't expecting a backpass in that situation then I'm afraid he's in the wrong job. He should have been on his toes, ready to go.

Stones was poor yesterday and is certainly not above criticism, but that one for me was 100% Howard.

I know it is fashionable to hate Howard and he is certainly been poor for a while and does take a share of the blamr for the goal but Stones shite back pass is typical of his casual attitude and over-inflated opinion of his own ability. He needs to learn how to defend first anf foremost and stop trotting around thinking he is the is at Barcelona.

I don't know in what way it was a 'shite' backpass. It was perfectly weighted for Howard to take two steps forward and clear his lines. The fact of the matter is that Howard didn't see Ayew and was caught on his heels. That's not Stones's fault.

I'm the last person to stick up for Howard, but if he'd played that ball to me, the bollocking would have sent him with his tail between his legs back to Barnsley.

When we reflect on this season once its completed and if RM has been removed from his position, one of the major issues that will be seen as a factor in his demise will be his refusal to drop Howard despite the goalkeeper costing us a goal perhaps every two games. I've been discussing the first goal yesterday with work colleagues (none are Evertonians unfortunately!!) who are neutral and to a man they all lay the blame with Stones.

He is a lovely footballer on the ball but his defending on a weekly basis is inconsistent. As our regular centre back and therefore an integral part of the third worst defence in the league he is culpable and should not be immune from criticism.

If he plays in the Euros and makes a mistake that costs England a game, just watch the national press turn on him. Conjecture, I know but if he plays then its likely to happen based on his performances for us this season.

That depends on how you define 'run well'.

My view is that they're run well within revenue limitations and nowhere near as badly as some on here would claim.

They have failed to find the correct buyer or inward investment but I don't think that entity has existed so I personally don't blame them for that.

In my opinion, we need to:

Sell Stones. We don't need Beckenbauer II. We need someone who'll make us rock solid and help us close games out.

Sell Barkley. I desperately want him to succeed but I've concluded that he's one of the most overrated Everton players I can remember. Too greedy. Doesn't get his head up enough. He doesn't go forward enough with conviction. He shoots over too often, or, even worse, doesn't shoot.

Sell the above whilst their stock is still high.

Get a new goalkeeper. I've been saying this for 4 seasons. Howard can have a good game (e.g. City away) but makes too many rickets and does not command his area well enough.

Get a Yarmolenko-type attacking midfield player to replace Barkley. Crucially, one that will get goals. We can't have central midfield players who don't score in the modern game.

Use the money to replace Kone, McGeady and Naismith with better equivalents.

It is so frustrating because we are so close to having a great team and other teams are struggling. When will United, Chelsea and the RS be this bad again?

I have thought about the Stones issue all night and something I noticed at the game was the total lack of movement by our midfield and Lukaku to find any space and give Stones an option to forward pass the ball – hence he then either carries the ball forward himself or in yesterday's game gets caught in a hole where the only option he had was to pass to the goalie.

Having watched the incident at the game and several times at home, IMO Howard was caught out not concentrating on the game and on his heels; he should have moved towards Stones to receive his pass and welly it up the field like most goalies would do... but Howard, I am afraid, is not capable of doing this.

If you remember the Cruyff turn by Stones when we in the Park end were told to "Calm Down", I was not screaming at Stones but at Howard who was stuck on his line like a Burton's dummy. Stone's must take some blame but ultimately it must be Roberto who must take responsibility as he sets out how we play each week?

Just an observation on the crowd being so quiet – this is down to how Roberto is sending out his team; it is like painting by numbers – so slow to pedestrian and no urgency at all. I sit there in my seat hoping and praying for something to get me excited and, like everyone around me, I suspect, until Bill grows a pair of balls, we are stuck with Roberto the con artist.

Unfortunately, it also gave Tiger Tim time to think and that is never a smart move. Nothing to do with his age. I've never known him any different. As Darren suggested, the backpass would have gone unnoticed with any other keeper. The Stones mistake was not understanding Howard.

Of course, the main culprit in this sorry mess is the manager. With any other boss, Stones would have whacked the ball out of sight. Playing it out from the back has it's good points but not when the opposition have trained all week to deal with it.

Barcelona turned the game around (not sure if it was a win or a draw) and Guardiola said the most important thing for him was that Valdes continued to play the same way throughout the remainder of the game when clearing every ball long would have been an easier option.

My point is that although Everton aren't Barcelona and Guardiola is open to criticism as much as anyone, I think Stones was right to play the ball back to Howard.

There was no need to clear it long and possibly lose possession. The pass to Howard was on, Howard is Martinez's number one so both manager and 'keeper understand the footballing philosophy being applied.

Where it falls down is that Howard wasn't on his toes, didn't go to the ball but rather waited on and the inexplicably didn't have the sense not to swing for the ball in the manner he did.

I'd feel sorry for Howard was it not for his utter arrogance in how good he thinks he is. This would be funny if it were any other club.

I can't wait to start 2016-17 season on Jun 27th, it will give us another 3 weeks to bed in our new team as most will have left and Bill will be telling us all what a good choice he'd made in Roberto.

It is so frustrating! RM is wasting what is potentially the best team we have had in the last 30 years. This is only going to end one of two ways. Either the American franchise takes over, sees what is happening and sacks RM... or we get relegated sometime in the next two seasons.

Nah! I'm not having that, from either you or the manager, that it is the home support to blame for poor results and performances at Goodison. If you haven't noticed on your (meritous) away sojourns we don't win many football matches – no matter whose turf we play on.

The, again meritous, League Cup run which puts us just 2 tantalizing games from our 1st silverware silverware in over 20 years is papering over the considerable cracks of our league results which have deteriorated over 18 months now. This is not a temporary 'blip' or a run of ill fortune. This is a systemic and continued failing which is not being addressed, by the manager, his coaching staff or the players themselves.

I consider it astonishingly pompous of you, or anyone, to claim "I think there are many who enjoy making Goodison a poisonous atmosphere in order to cost Martinez his job" and that "sometimes I wonder whether people on here would rather Martinez lose every game just to see him gone, rather than win something and get beat along the way."

I regard that as a gross exaggeration which borders on defamation of both the match going blue and the views expressed here on TW.

Have YOU considered it is the endlessly numbing and largely insipid, anaemic performances that have totally subdued and anaesthetized the home crowd who have very little to cheer or get animated about?

You also throw in red herrings, claiming people want big Dunc or Malky McKay to replace Roberto, saying "be careful what you wish for. We're only a bad manager away from being Villa or Newcastle."

That's possibly true Teddy ... only ... have you considered Roberto may be THAT bad manager you speak of, doing just enough in the cup run to disguise how we are slipping down the table conceding heavily and throwing away winning positions on a regular basis?

And if you are serious in your concluding words, that you "would take this season over anything I've seen here in the last 20 years" then – I'm sorry, Teddy, my own conclusion is you have both a very poor memory and extremely low standards of what you expect from Everton Football Club.

He hasn't done so and worse, seems to have no intention of doing so. The fans have to show their dissatisfaction because there is no sign of the board dismissing him. We have two choices: voice our disapproval more and more loudly or turn our backs on the club.

Unfortunately we already have that bad manager.
Lots of things in football are about opinion and they drive great debate on here. However the facts do not lie and the current facts are;

12 the in the table: P23 W6 D11 L6 F40 A34 Pts 29

1 (Yes ONE) win in the last 10 league games. That was against a team in the bottom 3 by the way.

If you then look at Martinez's career stats it is quite clear that he is not a good enough manager for Everton FC.

I want more for Everton FC.

Why would you (or anyone else) opt for this season over... say... the one just two seasons ago, when the same manager and predominantly the same players were working their way towards an impressive points haul and we weren't forced to witness gut wrenching, unforced fuck-ups nigh on every game?

Something of a U-turn from you there. I seem to remember you saying something very contrary on another thread. That being, the fans shared some part of the blame for results for being quiet at home games, and some airy fairy argument about us transmitting bad psychic vibes to the players on the pitch.

The hospital ball Stones played to Howard was both unnecessary and too short. Howard would not have been in this discussion if Stones had tried the Row Z option for once instead of waiting for an opponent to get so close to him that his only choice was a ball back to Howard.

The fact that Howard "wasn't on his toes" only removes the blame from where it should lie. Directly with Stones. His show pony behaviour is not needed all the time: it just, in his mind, makes him look good.

[Typing this from the floor as a feather just hit me!]

I think that the Stones pass wasn't great; it certainly put Howard under pressure. The fact that it ended up in Howard clattering Ayew and conceding a penalty is (for me anyway) more the fault of Howard than Stones.

I think if Howard is on his toes then he clears it. I think if Howard notices Ayew running towards him then he either rushes to clear it – or opts out and at least avoids clattering Ayew. Basically, the Stones pass was bad, but for it to result in a penalty to Swansea is down to Howard.

They are both guilty of poor decision making on the pitch but Martinez is more guilty of allowing these mistakes to keep happening, apparently given no direction at all to the players in training. He seems happy to accept the risk and he is the real culprit. He should go before he does serious damage.

Howard's general decline is seen in the second goal. Look at the photo on the BBC website. Howard is virtually sitting down while the ball passes close to his right shoulder. He should go too.

Most teams who come to Goodison are aware that you have to play defensive and break out when you gain possession but it seems Swansea changed their tactics by playing possession football and pressing high up the pitch and that gave them the 1 goal. advantage. Second half they simply played defensive and broke out after winning the ball.

This may be true Ray but this could be applied to every backpass. If the keeper fucks up then you can always say that the ball shouldn't have been passed back to him.

On further reflection I have however realised that even had Howard been on his toes, the only thing he was going to be able to do was launch the ball downfield, which is what Stones could have done in the first place.

So I would say that Howard was to blame for giving the penalty away but that Stones's decision to pass it to him was a poor one, all things considered.

"Jay #413 .... Something of a U-turn from you there. I seem to remember you saying something very contrary on another thread. That being, the fans shared some part of the blame for results for being quiet at home games, and some airy fairy argument about us transmitting bad psychic vibes to the players on the pitch."

Care to reference that Gavin? Because your recall is absolutely, totally, 100% WRONG,

I've never, EVER made such claims or called out the fans in the manner you attribute to me.

I look forward to receiving your retraction and apology.

Peter, the ball has to leave the penalty area from a goal kick to be "in play" in much the same way that it has to travel the distance of one circumference of the ball before it is in play from a kick off.

True, Howard was culpable of poor passes to Stones in the incident that you refer to and in others as well and the sooner he is replaced the better, but I just don't think that he was the main culprit for the penalty.

Shane

"This could be applied to every backpass."

Not really Shane, if the keeper fucks up then it's his fault but if the pass is short and not really "on" then don't blame him entirely. I agree that once the pass was made he could have done better but why do our defenders often pass back to him when we all know his distribution is crap? They, as outfield players with the ball at their feet, should be more capable than a dodgy keeper with a history of poor distribution. How many times does the ball go from an attacking position right back to Howard who then puts it into touch?

Joe Foster. Now you're talking....

Yes the backpass wasn't strong, but if you were John Stones, would you really want to hit a firm backpass at Howard, knowing that about one in every two shots on target (with any kind of pace) ends up in the back of our net? Yes, those are the stats, especially in the box, where 50% of shots on our goal end up as a goal. This is the worst in the league.

So for those of you on here saying we should shut up about this goal as it was only a fraction of the game, you are wrong, as this incident is a reflection on the entire season. The goalkeeper is very poor to say the least. The defense has about zero confidence in him. His mistakes and goalkeeping inabilities alone are costing us dearly and that lack of confidence in him by the other players is impacting our play and results indirectly and directly. If you believe otherwise, then you are following the wrong sport.

You deserve it.

There are plenty of changes I'd like to see brought in to speed the game up, for instance, and to cut out what is to my mind "authorised cheating" . If I could be arsed I'd write them down....especially for the kind of dosh you mentioned...

They are the first 2 tabs I open before I start any work and the 2 that are constantly on all day.

Might even start saying a preying to the football gods before bed.

And come to think about it, Klopp has his principles like Martinez but it still doesn't stop him from pushing a big man upfront and going direct when circumstances dictate. I remember last year when the team abandoned the tippy tappy stuff for a while and the results improved no end. It just goes to prove there is no absolute right way to play a football match. The key to success is having a style of play but varying that play as required. Rigidly sticking to the same tactics all the time means that you soon get found out - and we've been well and truly rumbled at Goodison.

Ask the Wigan fans what they would have preferred Results or performances?

"Erm..you did, Jay. I distinctly remember, because I had to pull you up on it at the time. It' okay, we're all allowed to change our view points."

So, you can't reference it. No surprise there because of course you cannot attribute something to someone who has never as much as THOUGHT of what you ascribe to me, let alone actually write it and post it.

Of course, the devil might be in the detail and you mistook a post by Jay WOODS (note the 's' at the end) as one from me (Jay WOOD- note the ABSENCE of an 's' at the end).

Something you might have noticed if you weren't so busy tripping over yourself in a rush into petty point scoring.

Here's a novel idea for you. Rather than (falsely) calling out another poster, how about joining the debate and offering your opinion on Teddy (and the manager's comments) on the team's performances and the impact of the Goodison faithful..?

I wouldn't waste hours pouring over old threads to prove my point. That would be something you would do. I don't come on TW to point-score. You should probably look in the mirror there.

It's possible I have got you confused with a Jay Wood. Although I remember the reply being like something you would say... Are you sure it wasn't you, Jay?!

It's an easy mistake. I don't go out of my way to read your posts. If I have got you confused, my apologies, mate.

You don't need to be so affronted and get your knickers in a twist because I dare attribute a comment to you. What will you do next. Contact lawyers for libel?!

No twisted knickers here. Just defending my name and opinions from your mud slinging which, from experience, is based on dodgy recall, preconceived prejudice, unsupported by hard evidence.

Still no opinion from you then on the points Teddy's post raised...?

Best leave it there then, eh?

This is an airy fairy argument and contradiction of your opening sentence on the post on this thread.

I abhor the abuse being hurled at the likes of Stones and Barkley, even Howard come to that, but something has to change. If the chairman refuses to sack the manager then his coaching team has to go.

I simply can't see where the next win will come from.

And yes, for the record, I once said that our fans wet themselves in the days before the derby games with Liverpool and transmit a negative vibe that I think our team picks up on. I stand by that assertion, but I never expanded it to refer to all our fixtures, regardless of the opposition.

I think it is the duty of supporters to question and criticise the temporary guardians. We will be here when they have gone. Blind support is not the only type of support.

You say:

Of course, the main culprit in this sorry mess is the manager. With any other boss, Stones would have whacked the ball out of sight.

I'm not sure about that. Funes Mori blasts the ball into Row Z frequently. Stones holds it far too long.

I'm not saying Howard isn't to blame partially, but John Stones has shown multiple times he holds the ball entirely too long and fucks around in very, very bad positions on the pitch. We have another defender in Funes Mori who does not.

Not sure about blaming Roberto for the Stones pass... especially watching Funes Mori crush the thing out of the park time and again when it calls for it.

The point though, with absolute crystal clarity, is that the manager and his staff need to correct that natural behaviour by coaching and highlighting where a particular situation needs a different application, i.e. other than Stones's or anyone else's natural instincts.

Surely that is the definition of coaching – to change or enhance natural instinct for the better? If not what are we paying him to do?

Whether Martinez instructs that behaviour or fails to correct it is is irrelevant as the outcome is the same. Either way it comes down to him eventually surely?

Begrudgingly agree. ;0)

I think this situation falls in the "fix it" category.

He an immense talent and needs to be told to knock it off.

Valid point on defending but probably lost on most on here. The other issue is the postiion to which the pass was played. Howard was facing sideways out towards Stones, not down the field like Stones was when he received the pass from the midfield. With a player closing him down from directly in front of the ball, Howard having to come out for the ball facing directly at the sideline, could only have played it out wide and out for a throw in within the 18.

To suggest he could have hoofed it down the field is ludicrous due to the oncoming Swansea player. Hoofing it down the field could likely result in the ball possibly being deflected into goal or in front of it, or to another Swansea player, or out for a corner. Once again, a defender should never pass the ball back to the keeper or any player if that player will be in a worse position as a result.

The reason is that, in a pretty short period of time, he has brought in some really fine players, like DelBoy, and brought along multiple players like Stonesy and Barkley who have made Everton a serious pleasure to watch. For the first time in a very long time, Everton the School of Science.

Okay, it would be nice to win the Premier League and the FA Cup (and who cares about the Mickey Mouse Cup?), but without a billionaire owner, that's rather unlikely, so what's left is to play nice football that is pleasing to the eye. Compare our football these days to the dreary stuff being turned out across the park, and I think we have got a great deal to thank DM for.

What is seriously daft is to call for the man's head based on the results of individual matches... "If we don't beat Carlisle, he has to go". Harry Catterick won 3 major trophies (and 2 Charity Shields) in 13 years in an era without the megamoney that DM has to face.... and we loved Harry for it. So let's calm down, accept reality, and enjoy the ride of some nice footy for a few more years.