Roberto and his subs

It's not working so I will try more of the same with different people.

Not only that, but I'll take off players that are playing well and try poorer players in their positions.

Unfortunately bobby does not have a boss, answers to no one and is under no pressure what so ever from inside the club.

Why not change the formation, which obviously wasn't working??

Why bring Kone and Osman on when we needed Mirallas on???

I am still baffled... the man as not got a clue.

Now I caveat I'm away at present so wasn't there and didn't see it; however, knowing how Pulis sets up and courtesy of BBC stats and heat map of West Brom's positional coverage, as in they were pretty much camped in a compact area between the centre circle and their 18-yard box for long periods, surely we needed to stretch the pitch.

So, bring on a player who naturally drifts into the middle and subsequently encourages play to go central. Straight into Pulis' hands and game plan. End of scratched record!

Martinez's unwillingness to be flexible has cost us dearly so many times this season in the form of defeats and draws. Personally I would have set up with only one of McCarthy or Barry with Cleverley alongside and two out and out wingers.

There was no benefit in bringing any of our subs on, I can see slightly the logic with Kone to support Lukaku but he should have been up top not shoved on the left. Mirallas really should have been given at least 20 mins as he offers pace and trickery that neither Kone or Osman do. To have the whole ground booing when he took Lennon off tells its own story.

Niasse for 20 mins would have offered something different too, to pay £13.5m and not even put him on the bench for the last 2 games he's been available is bizarre to say the least.

What is more baffling about bringing Kone on is that, not only is he slow and shite, he is actually not very good at reading where crosses are landing. So many times the cross was rebounded by a defender or goalie and Kone was left in front of a drifting ball and not even trying to move back toward the ball. Someone said on that forum that he is the worst number 9 the club has had, and, on current form, you'd be hard pressed to disagree. The guy is a waste of money, and any manager who persists with such an ineffective striker is obviously corrupt, or just plain stupid.

All this while Mirallas – a very good attacking player – sits on the bench. You just know Kev would be champing at the bit to try and show the Belgium selectors what he can do in the summer.

Finally, Paul, whilst I agree with most of your assessment, calling for the Baines-Pienaar combo to dig us out of trouble is just living in the past. The last time I saw them playing together is hopefully the last time I will see them playing together at Everton.

We have won 4 games at home all season and we've already lost more at home than the whole of last season which people thought disastrous at the time. Where do we go from here?

Roman Sidey, there have been worse forwards at Everton, believe me... and just out of interest, pal, what have you got against Baines? Most of your posts involve slating him.

I hate Tony Pulis and his frigging anti-football so much. I know it's down to our manager and our players to find a way through all out defence, and goodness knows I'm as hacked off with another feeble home defeat and terrible subs as everyone else, but...

...the way Pulis sends teams out on the premier league should be actively discouraged. I can't immediately think how you solve it or stop it, but there must be some sort of bonus point scheme, like in rugby or cricket, perhaps involving number of shots on target (there have been many games this season where the dinosaur Pulis' team have had none) that could be devised to hurt teams and managers who set up actively to avoid playing any kind of football at all...perhaps

Ideas on a ToffeeWeb sized postcard...

One more win and we can get shut of Martinez. Leave some of our shite players to stew in the reserves and build for next season. We need a boss with bolllocks, a firm hand and a presence on the line to give the lazy arseholes who want to sulk instead of grafting a good fucking bollocking.

Wake the fuckers up you are playing for Everton Football Club! – the greatest football club ever... maybe not the most successful, but the best.

Oviedo is a decent stand in, but nowhere near the class of Baines. There was no attacking threat from him at all down the left, usually cutting inside and playing the ball back. His free kicks were poor before he was stopped from taking them.

When we need a goal we MUST bring on MIrallas as the first sub !

None of the subs brought on are goal scorers.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/new-Everton-striker-oumar-niasse-10878763

Niasse should have at least been on the bench for both games as he offers something different, we're told he has raw pace and power do you not think that would have given West Brom something different to think about?

As I said everyone knew how Pulis would set WBA up, good managers adapt teams, formations and styles of play before games or at the very least once your team is losing. We never change anything which makes us very easy to play against if the plan is to sit back and defend.

To lose 6 times at home as in the main teams sit back, hit you on the break or via set pieces and still not change anything shows naivety, stupidity and arrogance.

On Saturday, Everton needed to inject more pace upfront to deal with a WBA defence that had dug in, as though they had dug some trench from WW1 to repel invaders.

So instead of turning to Mirallas and Deulofeu to do the very important thing that was needed, to run out defenders, create some pace, get free kicks a penalty even a goal by putting pressure on, Martinez turns to Kone and Osman even though he puts on Deulofeu but takes off Lennon, Everton's best attacker.

WBA must have been made up to see back the back end of Lennon and see Kone replacing him with Osman not far behind to join him.

Managers who are bold with substitutes to force a win, no matter how unlikely, will always get the support of their fans. Managers who put the shutters up to keep hold of the 3 points as the clock is running down will also get the support of their fans. I wish Martinez would take note.

As for my constant berating of Baines, to be fair I do it mostly as a trope - "Oh, here's Roman with his Baines hatred again" - but also, I don't think he is anywhere near as good as he should be anymore, and have never really been a fan of him as a defender. Yes, his set play used to be good, and he did share a good partnership with Pienaar for a few seasons, but that is all over now. His dead ball has been horrendous for the better part of three years now (tell me the last 5 corners of his we scored from), maybe even four, and for a player that has been at the club as long as he has, his leadership is almost non-existent. Shy? Bollocks; he is paid a king's ransom for a hobby.

Kone was at one stage a good player but age and injuries have put an end to that. So why does the manager keep playing these players and not say Mirallas and Deulofeu or Lennon on the wings with Niasse and Lukaku up front?

Phillip (@11), I don't think it's a case of blaming other managers for our own short fallings, you're right, the search for that starts at home.

However, it's a fair comment. I get the "results based business", however it speaks volumes for the state of English football when the likes of Pulis and Allardyce by virtue of the fact they are plying their trade at the highest level of our game are considered amongst the best we have to offer.

Win at all costs.....no thanks; although a win would be welcome!!!

Also some great haircuts, cool clobber, listens to proper music, unheard of for most footballers – and Martinez too considering he likes Jason Derulo.

I also cannot buy into this tiring player bollocks – you don't see Leicester's players needing to be subbed despite running their knackers off week-in & week-out. Our players are obviously not fit for purpose or are just downright fucking idle; either way, you have to blame the manager for this.

At Everton we have bigger dreams and a useful but rather lightweight squad. We also have a manager who is afraid to make changes and is completely out of his depth. His safety first substitutions on Saturday were the worst in living memory. We needed two goals but he worried that West Brom might nick another. Our biggest threat left sitting on the bench because he doesn't defend. and refuses to play to the Martinez possession philosophy.

We can't get Pochettino or Koeman but any coach would be better than the one we have right now.

Do you go out not to lose or do you go out to win? There is a subtle but fundamental difference; as many of us were continuously pointing out under Moyes (although I would not categorise him in the Pulis bracket; cautious yes but not entirely negative and non-football).

Their style of football will only get you so far. Successful teams set up to win. I said I'd leave him out of it, but inevitably I can't! Martinez has the tools, seems to have the intent, but is making tactically poor decisions and not getting the best out of a squad that he part inherited but also has added more quality to.

Did I see a statement blaming WBA's tactics for our loss.

Playing the same way with different people as the game goes on...well of course, it's the philosophy don'tcha know.

If we're not winning it's not the fault of the philosophy...you just haven't been applying it properly. The cure is - add more philosophy...because the philosophy can't be wrong...I mean, it's the philosophy innit

QED

And thus we stagger to the end of another wasted season.

TAXI !

Second point, the goalkeeper wasted time from kick off, why did he not book him in the first half? The only reason I can assume is if he had he knew he would have to book him again in the second half and send him off, which he was not going to do.

Don't get me wrong – Martinez does appear to be a nice guy but business is business, as they say, and the buck stops with him.

Simple and obvious even for me watching it at home!

You rightly stated that you would have got Baines involved at the expense of Oviedo. A few sitting around us said the same.

I heard a story yesterday and I don't know if it's true or not but apparently the players had a meeting with Martinez a couple of weeks ago about tactics. Now normally I'm told these meetings last 20 mins to half-an-hour but this one lasted an-hour-and-a-half and allegedly Baines lambasted Martinez and let him know what he thought of his tactics and substitutions.

Since then, Baines hasn't played, whether he's been not fully fit, I don't know... but once again, it seems Martinez is giving him the Distin treatment.

Now I'm not sure if it is true but it's certainly come from a reliable source so I've no need to think the guy is making it up. If it is true, it just shows the measure of the man.

Anyway... less about him lets all slate Kone – the player who is bought on the pitch to be Romelus Mr Muscle – he does the jobs Rom hates to do. In doing so, he takes away the option of having a genuinely creative player instead.

Commentators often talk about the "corridor of uncertainty" – there is nothing uncertain about that corridor for me. What is certain about that corridor is that I have seen Lennon and Deulofeu (especially) fizz 20-30 balls in that zone to find our main striker stood flat-footed on the penalty spot with his hands despairingly on his head....

The lad should be on 20+ Premier League goals this season – that is no exaggeration. It seems churlish to criticise him given his return so far, but let's just say that 2 goals in 9 games is very indicative of his effort since the New Year.

I always thought Rom could be the player who, if given an early kick, would turn into the incredible hulk, Olsson and Otamendi have proven that he can be very easily intimidated out of the contest. He is a massively important player for us and he needs to be giving more.

Onto Mirallas – Martinez is starting to look like a childish idiot now. For me, the way to get a goal against that lot would have been a penalty or someone dribbling through and slotting – Mirallas would have been the key man for that.

Yes we're a more entertaining team to watch than under Moyes as a rule (although those who think we just played KITAP1 under Davey ignore the attacking wingbacks + direct play of later seasons), but this is a results business and the results frankly are poor. Everyone can see we have a top 6 or better squad in terms of potential and everyone can see we're throwing the potential away.

Here's 10 reasons Martinez has to go:

i) Inept substitutions – almost always too late or wrong player;

ii) Persistence with one formation (4-2-3-1) and strategy (possession) regardless of situation;

iii) No discernible plan B or ability to adapt mid-game;

iv) Dismantling of what was previously a fortress defence so that we now have apparent inability to even shut-up shop and see a game out from 2-goal leads;

v) Persistence with players who are out of form or just not good enough (variously Howard, Stones, Barry, Kone) and failure to give a chance to others who could offer something different (Mirallas, Naismith, Niasse);

vi) Persistence with 2 defensive mids regardless of the fact they contribute nothing going forward and no more defensive solidity – we are more leaky than ever at the back;

vii) Obvious failure to concentrate on set-pieces defence or attack;

viii) Alarming lack of fitness and susceptibility to training injuries (both I think are tied to his dogged focus on ball-work over all else);

ix) Home record and overall results/points that's moving steadily in the wrong direction (our home record is 17th best this year, our form 19th best);

x) Arouna Kone in the starting line up or first sub – so bad I've listed him twice.

At the end of November 2013, he joined red hot relegation certainties Crystal Palace. When asked his plan he said that draws were no good. They needed wins. 2 weeks later they beat West Ham 1-0.

In the January window he brought in Joe Ledley, Jason Puncheon, Scott Dann and keeper Wayne Hennessey and Palace went on a run of 5 consecutive victories over Chelsea, Cardiff, Villa, Everton and West Ham.

After finishing 11th with 45 points, Pulis was voted Manager of the year but left Palace by mutual consent in the summer because the board refused to back his transfer plans.

Yes, Ross has natural dead ball talent... but that's not something to be relied on. RM should be demanding that he perfect that talent with practice.

As for McCarthy, his return has shored up the centre but he moves the ball so slowly and never goes forwards. McCarthy is so one-dimensional and offers absolutely nothing offensively. Lee Carsley did more in attack. Against teams who are parking the bus why do we need 2 defensive midfielders?

Compare McCarthy to Besic. Besic is a livewire, head always up constantly probing forwards and always moving the ball quickly.

I hear Spurs offered big money for McCarthy, we should have cashed in.

We probably all would if we were guaranteed 3 points but it doesn't work like that does it? You wouldn't pay to watch that shite every week, would you. I know I wouldn't.

We are in the top 20 richest clubs in world football, the fact we have such a two bit second rate manager speaks volumes for the club. #MartinezOut

Outstanding musical and fashion sense aside, ever since Pienaar became a sick-note/bit-part player, Baines has been adequate at best.

For the record, I prefer Oviedo's haircut to Baines', but I'm not British.

Anyway, let's end on something we both probably agree on: Martinez out!

Moving on - if you all want Martinez out, who do you want in? Serious contenders only....

If Season ticket sales suffer, you can bet your life the board of directors will contemplate Roberto's future, but with the influx of TV money even that might not force a change.

Relegation is not in my lexicon for this season but only because we managed to beat most of those teams below us and not because we are a top side, we are currently 11 points clear of the bottom three thanks in the main to the six points we took off Newcastle. Half of our wins have come against the three sides that occupy the relegation places.

But as Jamie said, Martinez is going nowhere. There's no one at the club who could sack him.

Not a great deal to crow about.

But I hope we win the Cup, qualify for Europe and then sack Martinez straight away because that will be all of his luck for the next ten years.

He is, in my view utterly inept, insipid, uninspiring, fumbling, bumbling, tacticly clueless, spineless, bewildered and out of his depth beyond measure. Who would replace him? Absoulutely fucking anyone with a coaching badge and a pulse. In fact, forget the coaching badge.

It's only fairly recently that questions have begun to be asked of Martinez by people beyond the Everton fan base. The perception of the not-really-arsed public at large and the footballing press was that he'd been doing a generally sound job and had revolutionised our playing style. About 90% of his press since becoming Everton manager has still been praise up to this point, despite the fact results have been pish for the last two seasons.

There simply hasn't been large enough numbers banging on about it for Bill to even begin to get a twitchy arse and start questioning Roberto's position.

There's still a lot of games to play yet. He isn't going to get the sack this season so we'll just have to see what happens. It all depends on what comes next.

Will he sort out what's bad or will what's bad sort him out? I still think if he's given more time, he'll make us a top team.

The 'Shit at the back, totally reliant on Lukaku in attack' remix is probably the more realistic version though.

Chew on this – The only Players at Spurs I would have to replace members of our 1st XI our Lloris, Dembele, Delli Alli and Eriksen. Our Full backs our better than theirs – Jags and Stones would be great under Pochettino, we have better wide players, Lukaku at his best (I reckon he's carrying an injury at present) is better than Kane. Barry is better than Dier. It's the Manager pure and simple – we have a top 4 squad with a bottom half of the table manager. Our best players will be off in the Summer.

Kone should not appear again this season as he's got his contract extension and is now on his hols. Let's see Niasse v Bournemouth .

How anyone can defend him is truly shameful. Accepting third rate management is the Tranmere way... Has it come to that?

He is going to get more time without anybody asking for it as the Chairman will never admit he made a mistake in hiring him, but do not expect us to improve. We are a mid table team with a manager who has poor game management skills.

You could also probably say the same about Leicester with Vardy and Mahrez, Kane with Spurs, Aguero with City and so on. It would be nice to see the percentages of goals these players score for their clubs but I can't be arsed.

Bill, it wasn't me who kept saying give him till so on and so on.

I want the sin miedo Roberto back. I want something that shows he's thinking and not just trotting out the 4-2-3-1. I want bold substitutions looking to not only win a game but turn the game on it's head, win or lose.

The subs on Saturday were just dreadful.

I think if Roberto doesn't find his swagger soon, he'll be off. And that's a shame because one thing he's really, really good at is building a team that makes you think, "we might just have something here."

Why not keep Lennon (who was having a good game) on and play two wingers? Why not bring on Mirallas and push Barkley back into midfield in place of a defensive midfielder?

Why bring on Kone when everyone knows that he just slows play down, does nothing but give the ball away 9 times out of 10 and his only noteworthy contribution is chasing back to retrieve it when he does?

Why bring on a 30 whatever year old has been who was shite even when he was 'good' as a last throw of the dice when he has Mirallas and even Pienaar sitting on the bench? Much better game-changers.

Baffling.

I'm not asking anyone to choose a manager, I'm just curious. Everyone has a view on every fine detail of Everton, and the current manager - I'm just curious as to who you think would be a suitable replacement.

So far that's Mark Hughes and Sanchez Florez.....both of whom are already in Premier League management positions - so they aren't really sensible options since they're not available.

What's Di Matteo up to at the moment? Favre is a good shout, although didn't he bottle it when Borussia Moenchengladbach when on a losing streak and resigned?

You actually think we have a defensive coach?!?!

Our 'manager' is at best an offensive coach to use the American vernacular. What he needs is the guy above him, the head coach who oversees both offense/defense.

And as for the special teams coach on corners...

The Superbowl and possibility of American owners seems to have affected me!

He's become very conservative, despite all our attacking play this season, in his tactics and substitutions. Where's the guy who humiliated OFM in the FA Cup with Wigan (and again at OT)? Where's the guy who outfoxed Wenger at Goodison? Or even more recently, the guy who took Koeman to the cleaners at St Mary's?

Could the real Roberto Martinez stand up please? Or, is this the real Roberto Martinez?

He has proved it at times, and although a fair bit of it is probably luck, it can't all be.

For me the problem is this, Martinez sees a plan of action in his head, and if everything falls into place it looks great.

The problem is though, in football we have many things that can change a game, like a player who isn't the best having a worldly of a game, a lucky goal, a bad desicion from an official and so on. This is when soft lad Roberto shows his true stupidity, and his lack of creative leadership, because he simply does not have any plan B.

Everyone knows this, every blues fan, and ever opposition manager. As soon as that mistake is made we are screwed.

If we play a good side who come to have ago, and we take the lead, we can make teams look stupid. If Roberto pushed the players we could have had a few crazy wins, possibly double figures. Roberto does not though, he's more concerned with keeping the ball.

My opinion is simple, Roberto is CLEARLY WELL OUT OF HIS DEPTH.

And I mean CLEARLY !

Not most.

If, IF, he can learn to "think fluidly" and be "in-game adaptable" he'll be a manager of the highest caliber.

He can build a team - God knows that.

He has set up tactically some games and absolutely nailed it.

But he definitely needs to learn to adjust. Because he's laid more than a few farts this season and last.

And as I said before and Colin reiterated perfectly... he needs to get that brown-shoe-mojo-juju back!

I don't think Roberto even knows. I think he's figuring it out.

Look at the road travelled. Amazing success with swashbuckling, defense be damned football.

That caught up with him, and he was sussed out. Smart opposing managers and whatnot... the league isn't full of idiots. So he transitioned to a more conservative approach.

We still leaked goals and weren't where anyone thought we should be in the table, so now we have a Roberto who's more concerned with keeping the Faithful happy as they and the media cry out for Roberto to mind his defensive duties.

So, we're left with "Vanilla Bobby."

Were I Roberto's advisor, and I am not, I'd tell him to not listen to a soul. I'd tell him to play the type of football HE loves and HE wants his teams to play. Swashbuckling, do-the-whole-village offensive-we'll-score-more-than-you football.

If it doesn't work at least he had a go - hell he's gonna get the axe at the rate he's going currently! What's all this boring, drab, 4-2-3-1 every single second don't mix it up keep it tidy at the back getting Roberto??!!!

A disaffected, unhappy fan base.

No winners...

He might be ok at a lower level but its clear that a manager in the top flight of English football needs to be able to adapt his strategy to suit what is happening during the 90 minute duration, unfortunately Roberto can not.

The sooner he is removed from the club the better our chance of kicking on before the inevitable movement of some of our bright young stars.

IMO the prem is the place most top managers want to be, City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, Leicester, etc all have managers in place, leaving only Man u and us out of the attractive clubs needing a new manager.

Bayern, Madrid, Athletico, Barca, and Juventus are attractive outside of the prem and are all satisfied with whom they have in charge.

There are loads of good managers about at the minute, Gus Hiddink at Chelsea may move on, Jose has to be on the look out for work, Moyes, Ajax manager De Boer, Koeman (Southampton alowed Poccichino to leave) plus many others could be persuaded to join us if we show a winning mentality when approaching any of them.

Surely having 3 experienced British defenders (jags, Shamus, Bainsey) plus Barry, Miralas and an array of young talent, must be appealing to managers.

Tell them they will not lose stars unless the choose to replace them, back the manger with the huge TV deal money and let's see what can happen.

This may all sound like pie in the sky, but we need to be bold, think big and behave like a too club and a genuine leader may take the riens instead of replacing a Championship manager with a like for like man.

Bayern Munich happy with the manager? no, he's just told them he,s off to Man City who have told there current manager he will be sacked regardless. Real Madrid sacked Benetez last month and sacked the manager before him. The red shite sacked there manager this season so did West Ham, hardly settled happy clubs.

Three experienced British defenders? have you seen our goals against? Coleman is a Bale wannabe, he was playing bloody centre forward on Saturday, if he was an experienced defender he would have been on the back post heading WBA's goal off the line, rant over.

I will explain further.

Leicester City are currently top of the Premier League, is that attractive enough ? (I'm showing them the respect they have earned.) Yes, if after 28 games, Norwich are top, they should be given respect.

Bayern have agreed a deal with one of the world's finest managers in Carlo Ancheloti. Zinadine Zidane has just took over at Madrid, I'm sure they will start next season with him.

The Red Shite have Klopp, West Ham have Bilic, I'd take either of them. I will bet my life on the fact both of them clubs will want them managers next season, hence me claiming they are settled with there current management.

Three experienced British defenders, Baines, Jags, and Shamus all kept many clean sheets under Moyes, all have lots of caps, so yes I'd call them experienced British defenders.

As for your attack on Coleman, I have other blue mates who moan about him, but me personally I wouldn't swap him for many Premier League right backs. He's at an age were he can improve, he gives 100% every week, and for me he was at the right end of the pitch most of the game as we needed a goal and Shamus looked more likely than Rom on Saturday.

I can understand your frustration, but at the same time surely you must want the same thing as me..... A new manager.

If we had endless funds, then yes we may change players, but fact is we do not.

Easiest thing for us to do is pay top wages to a top manager who might be able to fix what Roberto has broken.