Defence made to suffer by slick Arsenal finishing

Anybody been?

I have an Android which comes loaded with Kodi and have been trying since March to upload Sportsdevil which we were advised was the best for all sports but cannot get it to run despite updates from the seller.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Last summer's light-touch preparation must certainly have shown Martinez that what may have been okay for Wigan was not the way to prepare a team with higher ambitions.

Thus this manager has displayed his preparedness to vary his 'philosophy' and now all we can hope for is that he will not be rewarded by losing some or all of the brightest talents in this mid-summer transfer madness!

http://tutorial-iptv-xbmc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/sportsdevil-or-digitele-for-xbmc-kodi.html?m=1

Now that would be a preseason warm-up!

Wake up, Kenwright; wake up, Martinez: and wake up, Everton fans. I feel so let down by the club and our ostrich fan base as we head for midtable mediocrity.

Again, where is the projected 㿒/48 million that's certain to come into the club? Lukaku looks so blatantly isolated, it's criminal Bobby lad.

Need more than 'a bit of luck' to receive the offer he couldn't refuse.

Basically that offer would have to be..

"We'll give you 𧹈M for the club and build you a dead good new ground and you get to remain chairman, spokesman and generally to still be allowed to shove your fat head into any Everton-related media opportunities and do that toe-curling misty-eyed thing that you do.'

By the way, re today's game, the way Kone shaped up for that header (that would/should have made it 2-1) was a complete fucking embarrassment - like when little kids close their eyes coz they're scared of the ball.

We still seem to be too static offensively, but that could be down to the heat too. We definitely need that number 10. And part of our lack of possession was because of Kone's inability to the hold the ball up. I've tried to give Kone the benefit of the doubt because I know he's had the knee thing which can take about a year to fully recover, and I guess he's been fasting, which isn't good for competitive energy levels. But it's time for him to step up or step away.

I'm still not convinced that RM has the balance of the side correct: one winger and 3 centre mids protecting the back four and we let 3 goals in. 1 striker always looks isolated. I think Deulofeu offers pace and creativity but more work needs to be done linking up in the final third.

Too much passing back and forth whilst we wait until there are 8 players defend the goal, then we lose the ball 19/20 times. I would love to see more attack on the break, we look predictable and one dimensional.

Hey, I am no expert and would love to be proved wrong but I think RM struggles to outwit the opposition and get the players playing to their ability. Thoughts on a postcard.

Results in pre-season don't amount to anything but the performance was shocking. Why use the same tactics and formation continuously when both have been long worked out? It's almost like he hasn't learned anything.

In terms of fitness and quality, Arsenal were a cut above. We looked totally gone at 60 minutes.

This game showed that without a doubt we have to strengthen. 4 or 5 signings minimum are needed because it's frightening how much deadwood we have in that squad.

Hibbert, Barry, Osman, Naismith, Kone... they should not be anywhere near the first team whatsoever.

Martinez needs to adapt tactically because we've been long worked out and we're still playing the same, dull tippy-tappy dross we were subjected to last season.

By the time we play Sunderland (end of October) we could be and firmly rooted in the bottom half. I'm not sure how many points we are picking up in those first 10/11 games. Even Watford at home I think we'll struggle for 3 points.

Martinez has proved to me that he does not have an "eye" for a quality player. The difference in class today in both team and player to player was very evident.

Every Arsenal player looked comfortable on the ball and always had team mates in support and they had goal threats all over the team whereas we were looking sideways and backwards because there were no players moving into space and wanting the ball. When we did get that aspect right the receiving player either gave it straight back or lost it.

IMO a very poor performance that defies the bold statements being made about our prospects for the near future.

I imagine Roberto will hold that the result was unimportant and, in the spirit of non-pessimism the Editor is fostering, I'm happy to go along with that view. All I would add is much remains to be done before the big kick-off!

We need the very best from the players encouraged by a coach with guile, innovation, supreme motivational skills and the ability to change and improvise. We'll know soon enough if we have one.

That won't be are starting line-up... well, I hope not, for the start off the season. If we we don't hit the ground running, then I worry for us.

However I don't forsee any major changes, I appreciate this is only a pre-season game, but it's an indication where we are, against a team I think could mount a serious challenge for the title if they keep everyone fit.

Added to this today I have seen the same issues as last season all too evident, it concerns me somewhat.

I appreciate that its early days and we haven't started the season yet but surely we should be putting down a statement of intent. Last season, as others have said, was an uninspiring shambles and unless Martinez gets his finger out and changes the style of play then all I can see is more of the same. The most frustrating thing about it is that in my opinion, we have a good squad and he repeatedly refuses to utilise the talent we have. We are so negative its untrue and the way we are being asked to play, handicaps us from the off.

Arsenal showed us how to play football with crisp incisive play at a far faster pace than us, but whether Martinez will take heed of that is doubtful. Sorry to be so negative about this but really, whilst Arsenal have good players, so do we and we should have been far more competetive than that.

My fear is that we are going to witness the same dross in the coming season as we did last on this evidence. You'd think after seeing the stands continually empty with 20 minutes to go and boos ringing out last season, something would have registered with Martinez that his style of football wasn't working and the fans weren't happy. Obviously not. I always stay till the end of the game but I couldn't blame fans for leaving early last season. FFS Martinez get it sorted!!

We really need some more players for when the season starts.

As I posted above, much remains to be done before the season proper.

The mere fact that we have these players at RM's disposal and he doesn't even seem to contemplate using them is very worrying indeed.

The current style of play is just not Everton. RM may be a nice bloke but it seems he just doesn't know how to go about setting the team up. In other words tactically inept.

Ten games tops for me then pay him off or it could be a dire season,
again.

Kone, Naismith, Deulofeu never looked like doing anything joined up in the first half. The rest of the team defended well and at times kept the ball without really threatening. I can see the benefit of Naismith but not of Kone.

Second half, game over half way through. The lack of creativity is poor, we like to keep possession rather than look for the forward pass. Mirallas did nothing and Garbutt was given a very seeing to by Oxlade-Chamberlain who created havoc with his pace. Arsenal could have scored more but missed a load of chances.

Today Arsenal played how I would like to see us play. We are a million miles from that in terms of personnel and tactics. We need better players, it's as simple as that but we've got no money unless we sell first and would Ozil and Corzola want to play for us?

We are where we are, hopefully Martinez will see Kone isn't up to it, Naismith can't be expected to link the play and when we wobble defensively boy do we wobble. A commanding centre half would be a great buy along with another striker, a winger and of course our specialist No 10. Ideally we'd get a new keeper too.

As for the filthy rich billionaire, well sorry he already bought Valencia. Everton was playing in the same 'heat' as Arsenal, and maybe I can't understand how humidity affects someone from England as I'm local, but it looked very obvious to me that the game was lost in midfield.

Granted it was a friendly, but FFS show some hunger, there's a TROPHY on offer! How many fouls did we commit? Half the Arse chances came from midfielders and defenders not putting the foot in.

There is nothing wrong with playing two holding midfielders, but when we have possession, the back four needs to push everyone up higher. Having said that, I am unconvinced of the ability of Barry and McCarthy in the attacking third. We looked really devoid of ideas (again).

Looking at the two teams, I expected Arsenal to have more skill, quality and possession.

Again, I was disappointed with our lack of movement and inability to close down the opposition. Again, we created very few chances.

What concerns me is that a year ago, I said we needed a good keeper, centre back, playmaker and striker. I'm saying the same now.

We are miles away from the pre Martinez team and any idea of finishing in the top 6 should be buried now unless Bill wakes up and gets rid of this manager, which of course he won't do until we are again bottom 6 perhaps and the season is wasted.

The players don't look comfortable with the way they are being asked to play, the style was not effective last season and it won't be next season either. Much more directness is required in order to get the best out of the players and also the Goodison crowd when at home. We lost our 12th man for many home matches last season, and this is not a criticism of the fans, just the reality of us having to watch turgid, pointless periods of possession.

There is no point playing with a fear of losing possession, the team must go back to attacking the opposition with pace when gaining possession. But this goes back to what's now being drilled into them by the manager which is 'don't lose the ball' as opposed to 'attack and try and score'.

Even Danny Higginbottom the ex Stoke player, said Everton have been sussed.He showed stats that proved we conceded more goals than any other team last season by losing possession in our own half.

He also believes that this will be a big season for RM, I think he means continue with this style and you will get the bullet.

Arsenal did show us how to play football... they have been playing this way for years, irrespective of what players they have. It's based on possession of the ball, I believe, a philosophy with which many Evertonians, last season, disagreed.

I think this team is crying out for a talented player in midfield who makes himself available to receive the ball and who then has the intelligence to move the ball in whatever direction he sees fit. A Pirlo would do nicely; I don't care what age or pace the guy has. There must be some available with a few years left in them from whom our youngsters can learn.

Fitness will come later but sad to hear that the shite tactics from last season still seem to be the order of the day.

Why can't we just go back to 2013-14 tactics? We have virtually the same players!

Cleverley made several attempts at telling passes today but nothing consistent.

Ossie is the best we have at that but alas his time has gone.

Forever a realist, I acknowledge we have been below that mark (modest though it is) in the vast majority of my 57 seasons of watching Everton in the top division.

Barry, McCarthy and Cleverley just weren't at the races today, where were they when Arsenal dominated possession. Kone was awful, couldn't hold the ball up and Naismith 's flick one were useless, always lost the ball. We had a 15 minute period when we gave the ball away within 10 seconds of getting it due to hoofs, sloppy passing and poor movement. Deulofeu was pure dross. Coleman needs Lennon, Baines needs Pienaar, and Martinez needs to find a top No 10 and another top forward.

Our build-up play is so slow, there is no chance of getting anyone behind their defence, opposition are given so much time to form a solid two lines of defence, Lukaku makes so many runs and never ever gets a decent ball. I absolutely despair of what this season is going to bring, unless there is serious surgery. Out:- Kone, Naismith, McCarthy (at least Barry can pass the ball forward), Hibbert, and maybe even Barkley - the lad just stifles play; he gets it, juggles it, backheels it, dummies it and then loses it.

A bad bad day today; Martinez must have learnt a lot about some of his favourites .

The excuse last season was the draw and defeats at the start ruined their confidence; well, we have a harder start this season so he'd better be prepared. This may just be a pre season game but he'd better take a more winning attitude to the rest .

It wasn't too bad 2 season's ago, when Coleman in particular could get deep very quickly along with Baines, but that isn't happening now. There are just too many predictable passes in the midfield usually ending up with giving the ball away cheaply and against the Gunners that is suicidal.

Whilst RM probably recognized Arsenal superior passing game and counter-attack speed, he just does not have the personnel to deal with it and that comes down to his own choice of retained squad members. The squad still needs some new blood and some of the old blood should be discarded now.

We lacked any width what so ever and not only were our fullback's left to defend against 2 attackers constantly, they also had to attack alone as well. Even Mirallas appeared to be playing centrally in some kind of weird asymmetric diamond so ineffective and prominent last season.

Kone is about as much use as a third nipple and Barry was a statue due to being unable to even jog anymore. Joel looked lost at sea again with even my City mate commenting 'who is that bloody idiot in goal!?'

Garbutt was a positive despite our setup doing its best to isolate him and Barkley's goal was a peach. Perhaps there is something in his claim to be a striker because he can certainly hit them and he offers nothing in the creative no.10 role.

Somewhere buried under our bizarre tactical setup there is a decent team drying to get out and thats as positive as I can possibly be right now.

Surely, from what we've see so far, that would have been a much better starting line-up. Maybe Cleverly instead of Barry?

Never saw that coming.

When we do get it we're as ponderous as ever. Naismith tries hard but he's an awful footballer. So is Kone.

Naismith can finish but that's about it.

We lack goal threat because we're too slow. Same old predictable play.

To be fair to the manager, he was on the touchline telling them to move the ball quicker. They didn't.

I think Martinez has a good philosophy, but I question the players ability to carry it out.

I also heard the commentator say that Martinez was encouraging a quicker movement of / with the ball. If he is really trying to play that game and we can't, then that's more dispiriting than if we were able to play that game but he just didn't want to.

I don't understand why Barry, McCarthy and Cleverly would all start. We surrender initiative before a ball is kicked... Where did Robbie expect the creativity to come from?

What was patently obvious is that we are still screaming out for creativity. God bless Naismith, but he just doesn't see the pass.

All-in-all, it was a great day out from Perth. A playmaker required... and another striker.

We are at our best when we play with two wingers and supporting full backs. The Lennon - Coleman combination last season was one of the only few positives. Attack together and defend together; it's not rocket science. Arsenal did it and we got destroyed.

Every time Garbutt got forward, he had to turn inside because no-one made a run or overlapped. These kind of things are down to the manager and the way we are set up. It's painful to watch.

That bad was it?

Glad to hear via James M that Roberto 'has a good philosophy' but other than telling the players to 'move the ball quicker' he does not elaborate whether there is any more to the 'philosophy' than that.

Or am I being too philosophical?

It was even referred to in Sky's pre-match discussion with Wenger. My dictionary tells me philosophy is about the search for truth about human life and I wonder just what that has to do with Everton today.

I ask this of you in an innocent and genuine desire to discover just what it is that finds our players coming up short.

Barca have quality players who work so damned hard off the ball and play a non rigid fluid formation. I think that's what the manager is trying to do.

It isn't working.

We can't go into the season without at least one other central defender and a creative midfielder. Still unsure about Robles and Howard is not getting any better.

All this talk about contract extensions for Osman sends a shiver down my spine. Pienaar, Osman and dear old Hibbo are all past it and we are giving them two year extensions FFS!

If we are scratching around for free signings and loans, then whose fault is that? I will save any criticism until the window closes, but we will fall massively short if we have to dip into the loan or free market to bolster an ageing squad.

It looks to me that Martinez values the morale and atmosphere of the squad, and puts a lot of emphasis on people's characters and it looks like Hibbert, Osman & Howard are kept for them reasons mainly.

The main trouble I have with Martinez is constantly playing two defensive midfielders. We need that extra man forward and not constantly protecting the defence. Lee Carsley done it on his own, so so can Barry or McCarthy.

As for Chelsea - Go fuck yourselves. Young Stones IS NOT for sale !! So do one.

Trying to play progressive football with the wrong quality of players which we obviously can't afford has proved to be disastrous in the past.

It took till Christmas last season for the penny to drop, hopefully this season we will start playing more direct football right from the off.

Kenwright surely has to go if all we can muster up is ٤M and a Bosman.

I know we failed with an ٦M bid for the guy who went to West Ham. But even spending 㾺M in a transfer market means that we are going to be mediocre.

19th biggest club in Europe in terms of turnover? Then where the hell is all this money going?

We aren't saving for a football stadium so he cannot use that excuse. We have absolutely no investment.

Agree we still do need a playmaker though...

We need someone upfront who can hold the ball up with the type of tactics that Martinez plays. Lukaku is not one for holding balls up, he is one for stretching opponents. I think Barkley could possibly do that job. Play them both upfront at Goodison.

Hopefully Kone's showing (slow, lethargic) performance was just that. But he looks like he doesn't have the legs. But isn't he only 31?

I don't mind being outplayed by a more talented, expensively assembled team, but outworked?

Darren, you're right about the daftness of playing McCarthy, Barry and Cleverley. The thing is, he trusts those three and I've got a nagging feeling he wrongly sees Cleverley as our No 10.

Still, only three weeks to find out if he sees what we see, or keeps doing what doesn't work.

Martinez has proved he is incapable of change so far; unfortunately he will be given time which means more of the same poor performances next season. Will there be enough poor teams this time around in the league to keep us in it?

What was it Redknapp said about Stones? "Stay put and learn". The only thing he's going to learn is how not to defend. Everytime the ball came into our area it was just flailing feet trying to hack it away and invariably hitting one of our own players and rebounding back into the area again.

I only hope that RM is seeing what to the rest of us is blindingly obvious. If we don't get some creativity into our midfield and a decent mobile striker who can add some movement to our attack it's going to be another long, long season.

This game asks very serious questions on how we can expect the team to perform this season and the truth is that we were not in the same league as Arsenal. Good job they gave Sanchez a rest and weren't taking the game more seriously than a practice match.

I'm not negative but I think our problem is not in personnel but very much in how they are being told to play; I hope to be proven wrong but I fear the worst.

An out-there idea... play Stones as a deep midfielder while he fills out a bit, in place of Barry / McCarthy (by the way, Barry was the better of those two today). I think he would make a great box-to-box midfielder, he has pace, energy stamina and vision. He is not yet a top centre back and I would prefer to see him move a bit further forward at the moment, he is too error prone and gets out of position too often due to those runs, causing the defence even more disarray. We need to get in a proper commanding centre half. OR, I would see him as a marauding sweeper in between Jags and A N Other in a 3.

I'd have a stab at playing Barkley up-front alongside Big Rom.

And I think that yeah, Martinez sees Cleverley as our No 10. Sad times. Although I think if Pienaar could stay fit (big IF), then Martinez would play him there and I have to agree he could do a job. But he is needed on the left.

When you have two quality fullbacks scoring seven goals apiece or whatever and providing plenty of assists, then play two defensive midfielders, I get that. But, when that system is redundant, why continue with it? It certainly doesn't make us a hard team to breakdown.

The midfield is the engine room that makes the team tick! Ours is slow, ponderous and lacks guile. We desperately need a Number 10 and an attacking midfielder to maybe rotate with Barkley.

I firmly believe Martinez has to change his strategy or he is doomed... and so may we be.

I predict that Martinez will be gone by January and I take no pleasure in doing so. I just don't think he is learning from his mistakes or pragmatic enough to survive. A creative No 10 is not the answer either. Sure it would be nice but we have problems fair greater.

Throwing money at it won't help either. We already have solid defenders who are proven Premier League players. We should not be easy to play against and we most certainly are for all but the promoted sides.

Kenwright has to put his hand in his pocket, as all we have spent is ٢.2 million. A total Disgrace.

We have a manager who appears too stubborn to admit that his style of play or "philosophy" is not going to change even though it failed last season after other managers used a system to nullify it.

If you do not have the players that can adapt to the system you want, and if you are aware of not having the finances to buy players who can adapt to your system, as a professional Premier League manager, why can't you play a system that your present players can adapt too, and feel comfortable playing it ?

Some praise is due to Jags and Stones who just about held their own while the midfield and two backs were completely overrun. But it was patently obvious that Kone is not of Premier League standard.
The stadium appeared to be magnificent with a multicoloured closed roof and 55,000 capacity.... enough to make one dream of what might have been.

Unless we can spend serious money for real class and I mean real top class players we are always going to be playing for 6th to 10th spot in the Prem. its pretty obvious isn't it.

We hope for a minor miracle at the start of each season but until we can find owners rich and willing enough to spend lots of money were stuck with the same old scenario.

Both of your comments are spot on.

Although only a pre-season friendly & admittedly against a decent side, the performance was a template from many disastrous showings from last season. It seems RM has no plan B judging on the games against Stoke & Arsenal.

Nothing has convinced me so far that we won't struggle big time next season, I know we have the transfer window open for some time yet but do we have funds for 2-3 more decent additions? I don't know so much.

We do have a decent squad but I don't feel RM can get the best out of them,he is tactically inept IMO, 2 defensive MF again today & we looked shambolic at times, Arsenal walked through MF all afternoon & could have scored 5-6, defending was pathetic,it's as if this team have only played together on a handful of occasions.

If RM is still our manager at the end of the season I reckon we will finish between 12th - 16th, I hope to god I'm wrong.

Watching Barry & Kone today made me cringe, Kone is Championship quality at best & that "header" in the 2nd half was appalling! Barry looks like he's just finished a season never mind pre-season.

So on went the live forum (subdued) and on with the game. I stuck it out until about 30-40 mins after the end then went to bed.

Opening shot; digital alarm showing 05:59am, which flips to 06:00, cue Sonny and Cher as this Bill Murray wakes to find another Groundhog Day.

That game last night was no better or worse than 50% or more from the last two seasons. And therein lies the problem. Leaving money aside, the net amount won't vary much for whoever's in charge. Which brings me to what I see as the real problem. The man in charge.

Sorry if it seems negative Lyndon, but that's the way I see it. The game is won and lost in the midfield and for me Pauxatannie Bobby has no fucking idea.

I must be in a minority who cannot see whats great about Robles; Howard for me is still a better goalie.

I know we deffo need a top quality keeper; with Howard coming to the end of his career, a quality goalkeeper and a second striker is a must.

They must have been sweating their tats off in that heat.

It's all down to Roberto's "tactics' and his stubborn and blind adherence to them even though everyone and their dog can see they do not work.

Also - Coleman's defending (especially when the ball is off the ground is weak). He has been caught out a lot at the far post with weak challenges on players attacking the ball in the air, and was at fault for goals one and three against Arsenal. McCarthy failed to put a decent challenge on Cazorla for goal two.

Very few positives no matter how much RM spins it. We know Barkley can smash a couple into the roof of the next each season... Let's just hope he can hit a few more like that. Deulofeu's pace was pleasing too. Garbutt's delivery shows promise. Stones must stay. Barry not far off Kone in the 'no longer up to it' category.

His side-to-side movement, though. He's slow-footed. Zero quickness.

First goal he is off his line by 12 yards but still wasn't in position to stop the ball from falling to the striker. The second goal was pathetic. Robles got caught on his heels and his feet to wide to even move. The third goal looked like Robles forgot he was the keeper and thought he was an Arsenal fan.

I am worried by the trend of former Wigan players not being up to par. First, Alcaraz, then, and still now, Kone, and currently also Robles.

It is however only one game and the preseason looks a lot better than last season. Still one goal is not enough in two games from an offensive-minded coach.

Criticising Robles is fair game, just as is criticising Howard.

I don't think anyone is banging the drum and hailing Robles as a top keeper. However, when he came in last year he kept clean sheets and seemed to galvanise what was a desperately leaky defence.

Martinez's decision to drop him was inexplicable and set a nasty precedent for players outside the first team. Basically if you're not an established player then it doesn't matter how you perform. He even said that Howard would have to 'lose' his spot rather than Robles being able to win it. What a negative, defeatist attitude from Mr Positive.

Howard is a bang average keeper with a bad attitude. His got an arrogance unbefitting of his ability. Get rid and bring in someone who is prepared to earn the jersey, rather than seeing it as his right.

Lastly, and I do bang on about this... but the way he spoke of the fans' relegation concerns last year was a disgrace. Those words would have rankled me even coming from an Everton legend, never mind this fucking no-mark.

Add to that his 'my life's better than your life' beach photos on Twitter and you have a truly ignorant fool with absolutely zero sense of respect for us chumps who pay his exorbitant wages.

'But he's a good shot-stopper'

Making scapegoats out of certain players masks the real problems we have, which are the tactics the manager employs.

We played the best passing team in our league out there, in humid conditions, so I am not surprised at the result, but against Stoke we took an age to put a shot on target, and didn't score in open play.

We were set up to play on the counter, but when we got the chance to attack, we fumbled about like a schoolboy tackling his first bra.

No change from Everton, we are lacking a creative midfield, and can't defend and also we don't know where the goal is. It was like watching us before Lennon joined -- a lower half finish awaits.

It all seems so amateur.

The match yesterday showed no progress from last season. If you were McCarthy or Stones, it would be understandable if you started to question where Everton are headed and start to see the attraction of a better more successful club. And it hurts to write that!

I can't see us improving on last season unless we change manager. I hope I'm proved wrong!

A 'good servant' deserving of my respect? You've got to be kidding me!

This 'good servant' earns more in a week than most do in a year. We don't owe him anything, you know. He should be thrilled to put that shirt on every week. He literally wouldn't get in any other Premier League team. He was hopeless last season and shown up by his understudy. And then criticises the fans for fretting about the very real prospect of relegation.

I'll tell you what, it's a good job some of us were fretting...because it took that to give some of the players a much needed wake up call.

Everton really don't have a clue when it comes to marketing us as a brand.

Asians LOVE brand marketing. They really do. Mad for it they are and Everton wearing a blue jersey means everything to them yet there we are playing in bloody white!

Just wear the white away kit in a friendly back in England because nobody in Asia gives a shit about away shirts. They simply don't care. Ridiculous decision.

That said, the pessimism is also understandable, in view of last season. I'm with Stephen -- we need wide players out wide. These do not need to be wingers, but our team will at its best if two of Pienaar, Mirallas, Deulofeu or even Oviedo are in the wide positions. Sticking a central midfielder there simply does not work, as last season demonstrated. They will just drift in side, killing our width, whilst our right sided option will also likely drift inside. Our central midfielders are also not creative enough, unlike someone like Pienaar, who can at least orchestrate things from a wide area (or could at a younger age).

Barkley is also continuing to frustrate. His poor decision making, and his desire to run with the ball, demonstrate why he can't function in a deeper midfielder position. He cannot play out wide, so that leaves only the position behind the striker. However, his passing ability is simply too poor for that role in our team (especially because Mirallas, Deulofeu and McGeady are not passers either). Barkley takes too long, and mishits too many easy passes. He mentioned watching videos of Ozil on YouTube a few months ago I believe -- at least he realises that that is an area of his game which he needs to improve. Ozil is effortless with the ball and controls the tempo perfectly. Arsenal have those players in abundance, and we need to add a player of that type.

This is a big season for Barkley -- talk of a new number 10 is a big challenge to him and the hopes that he can realise his potential. He can't live off wondergoals, even if they demonstrate how good he might be, because he needs to play in a way that benefits the team every week, or least most weeks. He is dead this season unless we play with a higher tempo, and improve our counter attacking game, so that we can use his genuine assets. He needs to improve his passing, and can improve it. But you can't improve vision so easily, and I think his 'natural' assets do not suit a creative rule.

Martinez needs to prove himself too. Our defence under Moyes was generally very stable -- our defence under Martinez looked increasingly suspect, despite some very good defenders and a talented DM in McCarthy. The defence, along with the style, will be the biggest two challenges. With our start to the season, we won't get the opportunity to build confidence. Martinez's job could be hanging by a thread by the November (I would cut that thread), and our season rests on 1) signing another CB and a creative mid 2) Improving the defence 3) Playing at a quicker tempo 4) improving our creativity 5) Playing to the strengths of Lukaku, and to a lesser extent, Barkley.

Martinez faces alot of tests. We have some great players with great potential, but they need to prove it, and importantly, be given the chance to prove it. Last season Martinez's tactical approach robbed us of that, by playing in a way that did not suit the players. I hope that he has learned from that now, but we will only find out during August and September. A game against Arsenal in extreme conditions will not give us the answer.

The manager is getting it in the neck again, but we've not won anything at this club for twenty odd year now! Do you think changing the manager will make us a winning team?

When you look back at Moyes's tenure, he did a great job in the league to obtain the finishes we had, maybe we should return to that style of football. Martinez said when he took the job that he would attempt to play a possession style; well we've tried it, but it's not working yet is it. Better to have tried and failed than not tried at all and all that.

He needs a better class of player than we can afford is my conclusion, so do we return to more direct style of play, à la Moyes/Aladyce?

Last season it just didn't work out as players became obsessed with accurate passing -- and that's always easier done backwards or sideways. And, of course, it makes the game pedestrian. Other managers were on it like a flash.

On the back of one excellent season and another not so good, I am not ready to join the 'Bobby Out' lobby yet but if yesterday showed me anything, it was that Wenger's commitment to 'the passing game' was delivered at greater speed than our own. But then, his players are of a generally higher quality than our boys in blue. Martinez may need to change the hymn sheet.

The nature of your argument is beyond simplistic - and it's representative of the typical exaggerated rhetoric the likes of the Mail and Talksport have normalised. A player can't just be average - they have to be terrible. They have to be so bad that they couldn't get into any other team, apart from the one they are conning a living from.

You refer to Howard as bang average - and you are right. He is an average Premier League goalkeeper. You also state that he couldn't get into any Premiership team, which is of course, bullshit, and means that you don't think he is average, but not good enough for this league. Did you watch other teams last season? Do you think Howard is a worse goalkeeper than a sluggish Guzan or Boruc? or the halpless Gomes or error prone Speroni?

Howard was poor last season, but had a very good season the year before. He was too error prone last year, and seemed to lose confidence. But guess what - Mignolet made a ton of errors, especially at the start of the season. Hart did too. As did alot of the goalies in this league, because that's what happens with goalkeepers sometimes.

And one more thing Phil - has it crossed your mind at any point that Howard's comments about relegation might have had a point to them? That it may have been one of the many comments coming from players and managers which are designed to put pressure on, to motivate, or to ease pressure? Perhaps Tim Howard, who has played at the top level and at international championship for an extended amount of time, might have had a plan beyond disrespecting the fans? Perhaps Howard even, as incredible as it might sound, attempted to ease the pressure on a team so obviously struggling with confidence?

Sometimes it's good to take a step back, and ask whether your dislike for someone is exaggerated. Sometimes it's a good idea to ask whether something is so cut and dry as it seems. Is Howard unusual because he posts beach pictures? When that's what people do, and that's especially when football fans do? Is it possible that you've constructed this narrative, whereby Howard is an arrogant prick rubbing his wealth in the faces of fans, insulting their intelligence, and directly contributing to our failures? And is it possible, rather, that Howard is an average Premier League goalkeeper who we should replace in the next year or so, who acts just like football players do?

One point to make - many of us, me included, would replace Ospina for Howard. The same Ospina who made some wonderful saves against Argentina (I watched the game and there were two wonderful saves), and who in part like Howard, has reputation with the everyday fan based around international performances. The very same Ospina who made several errors last season, and generally failed to live up to expectations for Arsenal. The same Ospina, who if he played for us, would have some good games, and make some errors, and come in for criticism on this board just like Howard as. And maybe he would post some beach pictures too.

We need to replace Howard when our budget allows, and when the right replacement comes along. Or we need to replace Howard with a backup to Robles, if Robles proves himself over the next season (I'm not convinced, but I agree with Phil and think that he earned a run in the team last season and should have stayed in for longer). But Howard in general has been a dependable goalkeeper over an extended period of time. He did not cost us alot of money, and has been an important part of a very effective and solid defensive unit constructed for very little money by Moyes. He has been our goalkeeper for 8 years, during which time many of our rivals have transferred goalkeepers in, and sold them again, without so much success. Howard however, has been a good servant, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had another good season in him before he returns to America.

Football has no logic for the fans at least. It is a passion, a desire, a feeling. Admitting the obvious can hurt your dreams and your heart.

Logically, I am 66 this season and believe I will never ever see Everton win the League again. Logically, we may well have to see our better players to survive and buy lesser players. Logically I will have to admit that watching Arsenal yesterday was a joy -- quick, high tempo fast passing and movement. Logically I would stay at home and watch "the best" from around the world on Sky/BT and The Internet.

In my heart, I believe we are something great, something special, wonderful and we deserve much. I love Everton and think we are the best team (and fans) in the world capable of beating anyone and everyone. I want us to create a team and a club to be proud of in this stinking mess called modern football. If we cannot buy the greatest then buy the most spirited and those with commitment and passion. And I will support any players who play and stay with us.

In my heart I cannot hardly wait -- like a child at Christmas time -- for 8th August, to go to my football pub, The Dark House, meet my football family and friends... and then that feeling of walking into your seat on the first day -- to see around the ground and the pitch. Season tickets due in the post soon. Can hardly wait.

I am the Blanche Dubois of Evertonians -- she told Brando in Streetcar named Desire, "You live in that real world -- I live in the world of dreams" ... or something like that.

William Blake was I am sure an Evertonian in the 1700s:

Shakespeare certainly was a Blue -- why else would he say:

"We're all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on: and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep."

DREAM ON, BLUE BOYS, DREAM ON -- and on and on and on like the moon and the stars and the sun.

Happy days.

We also have some very good players, even if top 4 is extremely unlikely because we lack the quality of the top 4 sides. We do though have Coleman and Baines, who are better than any other full back pairing in this league save for Chelsea. We have a very good DM in McCarthy, who has performed better than City's versions in the last few seasons. Stones and Jags are very good defenders, and I'd prefer them to United's current CBs, and I think that Mirallas, Deulofeu and Lukaku are great players on their day. We don't have the money to compete, and that's unfortunate. But we do have a team which is good enough, and young enough, to challenge for trophies, and to beat the best in this league on their day. But that will only happen if we play the right tactics and buy the right players. Moyes did that very well, but failed on the big occasions. Martinez failed on both the big and small occasions last season, and failed to get the simple things right. This season he will get another go at it, and we will see if he has learned from his mistakes. If he has not, then he needs to go.

George, I think the lines from Yeats* directed at Kenwright are more accurate.

"'I have spread my dreams under your feet. Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.'"

Or dance all over them,Gangnam Style more like.

That's W B Yeats, not Yard dog Yeats.....

I must confess though I'm getting more pessimistic about the club's ability to give us what we desire! The Premier League has become divided into three divisions with us unfortunately parked in the 2nd division.

Anyway I had better shut up with Lyndon and Michael calling for less negativity!

Cleverley had a decent game but is too similar to what we have to make a real difference to our ponderous build-up play and lack of creative cutting edge. If the balance of midfield is not changed before season kick off, mid table looms (at best). If we need funds for a front rank No. 10, I'd sell McCarthy (overrated IMO), Our other 'new; addition, Deulofeu, didn't do much, but the weakened team and set-up for the first half (why, FFS?) didn't give him much opportunity.

In sum, whilst Arsenal's much better players were always going to give us a torrid time in that kind of setting, we need key changes in personnel and on-field strategy to avoid the Groundhog Day scenario.

Raymond - - sometimes its good to let the heart rule.

Nice to debate.

Up The Blues.

James Marshall @150. Totally agree.

Worrying times, it seems, but most people would have been equally dejected when we lost 4-1 at Arsenal in the cup two years ago as well.

We actually gave them a football lesson, in the very next month at Goodison, but things seem to have changed. They have got progressively better whilst the opposite seems to have happened to us.

We need new blood, and new tactics, even if pre-season is only really about getting yourself fit for the coming season.

What did I learn?
Robles was ok. I don't think he was at fault for any of their goals.
Coleman - very poor. He continues to give up on balls he thinks should go out of play but don't. He gives opponents far too much room to whip in crosses.
Jag/Stones - Did ok but they still need to iron out their communicating.
Garbutt - Did ok
Del - Incredibly frustrating but he'll be fine. Seems like he's too eager to impress.
McCarthy - He looked knackered from the off and Cazorla's goal was down to his wobbly legs.
Barry - Improved considerably once Macca went off. I also don't believe that we need to play both of them together all the time.
Cleverley - Wasted on the wing. When he came inside in the 2nd half he was a lot better.
Nessie - Huffs and puffs, god bless him, but has the creative skills of a dried up wart.
Kone - Embarrasing. Surely his time at Everton is up now.

Overall a very disappointing display. A bit of a quandary for the manager. Does he play his strongest XI or does he try and give most of his first team squad a run out? I'd have preferred to go for the win at all costs but it's his shout. I just hope he's learnt something from this.

The main influence on his footballing philosophy was Cruyff's Barcelona who played decades ago!

Our squad of players is superior to at least 13 others in the Premier League and who's to say we shouldn't take advantage if one or two of the big boys have a disappointing season. We have done it often enough in the past.

If this is where Martinez's followers are now setting their sights, it shows they clearly don't have as much faith in him as they make out. He took over a squad of players who would challenge for CL qualification. He inherited some of the most talented young players seen for a long time at GP. Last season was abject failure, not only in terms of results but the ugliness of our football.

I have to sometimes have to re-read when Bobby's followers say "do you want to return to the Moyes style of football?" ... is that a serious question? Do we want to return to watching the dazzling stuff served up by Baines and Pienaar on one side and the pace and power of Coleman on the other? ... No thanks, I'd much rather have a re'run of the most negative possession obsession I've ever seen in my life.

Nobody is expecting a title challenge, but the rich clubs won't all have a great season, one or two of them will disappoint and we should be looking to capitalise.

Tenth? With this squad of players? It should have been a sacking offence last season. If it happens again...

Can he? This has been a better pre-season and I have been hoping for more signs that Martinez has what it takes. It will take until possibly October to know for sure and now is too soon to judge. However, yesterday did my newly found optimism no good at all. Much of what was wrong last season is still evident and worryingly the ...

If Martinez thought fit to add Eto'o to the squad at the last minute last season, how does he think we'll get by with one striker less this season? A misfiring Lukaku and a truly abject Kone do not strike me as a partnership to scare PL defences.

Okay, a creative midfielder would help but why are we operating on such a shoestring when it comes to strikers? Yes, they cost a lot but, Villa apart, who has less on their playing staff at the moment? Barkley can't score a cracker like that yesterday every week!

My fear is that we will limp along hoping for improvement without looking really good or really bad. If Martinez is not the man we should know soon enough and it should be dealt with. We have players who must not be wasted. At some stage we might have to ask is this the best we can do. I say this while absolutely hoping we have the right man who will get it right.

As I've repeatedly stated, I'd have sacked him at the end of last season. Finishing that low, with the same team, playing awful football was unforgivable.

One reason why I was frustrated at the worship of Moyes was that, in my view, any half-decent manager could keep Everton in the top eight.

Martinez has luckily got another chance to prove he's at least at that level. I hope he builds on his first season's good work and abandons his nonsense of the last 15 months.

We can see step one i.e. retain the ball but that's about it, the players look like the don't have a clue what to do after passing it around for 5 or 6 passes other than try and repeat. Whether he's trying to play like Barca of 5 years ago or 10 years+ ago is not that relevant when he can't get the team close to either.

He's a disaterous appointment that will take us back years to the pre Moyes days. We still have some good players and if we got in a manager that could play to their strengths rather than trying to get them to play in some unfathomable style it would transform our performance.

Howard gets crucified, yet when Robles lets three in, its the defences fault.

Howard is not the keeper he was, but hes still a better goalie than Robles.

Thanks to Martinez that's the first senior game he has played since he was dropped in, was it the middle of February. Give him a chance, Howard has plenty since he came back into the side.

People all too often point the finger at goalkeepers, when in truth there's more often than not nothing they can do about it. Robles made some good saves, he was quick off his line to sweep up a few times and his distribution was decent.

He's a 25-year-old who's not really ever been first choice so he deserves a break from supporters. Nobody in the ground last night was blaming him for anything, I can assure you -- the fingers were all pointed at the back four and the poor cover in front of them.

The way we play, we leave our defence exposed when our full backs push up which is why Martinez plays Barry and McCarthy but it doesn't help at all. Stones, Jagielka and the keeper are time & again left to do too much in my opinion, in part due to Barry not being able to get back when McCarthy goes forward with the full backs.

First 25 mins: even game, Arsenal 1-up because of a combination of no pressure on Corzola, Coleman not being tight enough to Walcott, and Robles for coming and then stopping. The main difference between the teams is usually the Arsenal player receiving the ball isn't pressed with any great intent. Whereas they are all over us once we get in their half.

They attack as a team we attack as a three or four and, when we can't find the pass, the ball comes back until we lose it. When we clear the ball, our forwards can't keep it, so we stay hemmed in at the back.

We took a breather for 10 mins after the drinks break and let them have the ball. Common tactic by Arsenal when we break at them: foul.

End of the first half and we look knackered, Kone had done nothing, Naismith wasn't as bad as I first thought but our three in the middle have given too much space to the Arsenal creatives. Ozil is a player.

Second half. First thing to say, Kone stayed on. Barkley playing up top in a three with Mirallas on the right.

Against Arsenal we played a 4-3-3 game that we aren't good enough to play and our 3 midfielders were basically championship standard and all defensively minded. Arsenal ripped us apart down the wings and through the midfield when they eventually cut inside and I felt for Tom Cleverley who is a good player but with no idea what was expected of him.

With tactics like we played yesterday we could be and will eventually be relegated; we played at all times to our weaknesses and I'm afraid that the reality over Martinez is that he is a clueless chancer who shouldn't be let loose near a club like Everton. I believe that he will take us down and that the game against Arsenal wasn't just a chance result of a match designed to improve fitness but a demonstration of a top Premier League side against a relegation candidate. This isn't negativity by the way but an honest appraisal of a totally woeful performance from a group of players who were tactically clueless from kick off to final whistle.

The vultures are circling the club and performances like yesterday's only encourage clubs like West Ham and Chelsea to submit bids for our players in the belief that we are going down. Mind you, is Mirallas worth ٤- 8M? I'd say that he is worthless given his performances for Everton and good riddance to him for whatever we can get. We are deluded if we think he has any value above what WHU are offering other than the stupid fees being paid for similarly talentless players in the EPL.

It's a pre-season game that means nothing. It's not the end of the world cause we lost and it wouldn't have solved all our problems if we'd won.

It's about fitness now and he won't start with that team in August; so let's have wait until then before making judgement calls.

Please, a bit of perspective, it's only pre-season!!! We still have 6 weeks of the window to buy the players we need.

We struggled past Stoke, OK we won on penalties, and we got smashed by Arsenal.

We were constantly being reminded "it is only preseason it doesn't matter". The fact is professional pride dictates that it matters and we see the same issues that got us into trouble in the Prem last season being repeated in preseason.

A MF trio of defense minded players with not an ounce of goalscoring ability amongst them.

Standing off the opposition when they are on the ball.

Only occasionally getting into the opponents area and very rarely troubling the keeper.

Martin Mason is spot on.

Moyes, for all the criticism, knew what football was all about and dedicated an unbelievable amount of time to his job.

This fella thinks he is still at Wigan with his casual approach and reassuring bullshit.

"Only occasionally getting into the opponents area and very rarely troubling the keeper."

Semantics but...Cech made an excellent save to deny Naismith which was borderline onside but was called off when the rebound went in and Barry missed an excellent chance second half.

Last pre-season was different. The Manager wasn't with the team for the majority of it and it showed come day 1.

I'm a believer.

ps: Two positives were the new signings, Cleverley and Deulofeu.