Sporting Club deny Everton takeover rumours

16/10/2015  173 Comments  [Jump to last]
Updated With speculation mounting that a group of American investors with links to Kansas are assessing a bid for a controlling interest in Everton, the owners of the city's MLS club say there is no truth in the rumours linking them with a buyout.

Following initial talk on social media earlier this week that a group of "VIPs" will be at tomorrow's Premier League clash with Manchester United, BBC Sport are reporting that according to London financial sources, a consortium with links to Sporting Kansas City are looking at purchasing Everton FC.

Phil McNulty and Richard Conway's report suggests that Bill Kenwright and the Board have set an asking price of 225m, 100m more than it was believed to have been a couple of years ago. McNulty has insisted on Twitter that the source of the story was not from Everton.

Sporting Kansas City investor Mike Illig, is an Everton fan whose photograph on Twitter of a visit to Goodison Park for Duncan Ferguson's testimonial against Villarreal at recently was retweeted by Robb Heineman, CEO of Sporting Club (the parent company of SKC), fuelling the rumours. (The tweet even carried the hashtag #rumorsarefun.)

Cliff Illig, Mike's father and co-founder of the Cerner Corporation health care information technology group with a net worth of $1.2bn, is the principal investor in the group that bought the MLS club in 2006 when they were still known as the Kansas City Wizards.

Everton had not responded for comment when contacted about suggestions that a takeover deal is under discussion and BBC Merseyside now say that Sporting Kansas City have told them that there is "no truth whatsoever" in the reports that its owners are weighing up a bid.

Furthermore, the Kansas City Business Journal has quoted a spokesman for Sporting Club, Rob Thomson, as saying there is nothing remotely accurate about the story.

Nevertheless, NBCSportsSoccer's Joe-Prince Wright says that it is his understanding that Illig and Heineman's trip to Merseyside in August was for the purpose of opening a dialogue with the Blues' hierarchy about a potential takeover. Whether those talks progressed beyond the exploratory is unknown but Wright also suggests that the Kansas investors are not the only Americans taking a serious look at Everton as the Premier League's stock across the Pond continues to rise, making English clubs attractive targets.

For his part, Heineman responded to the speculation today with a tweet that confirmed his trip to Merseyside but also that there is nothing on the boil in terms of him getting involved at Everton:

"Great trip to Liverpool in August...learned a lot, but that's the extent of it. It's time of year to focus on trophies for #sportingkc
 

Reader Comments (173)

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John Francis
2 Posted 16/10/2015 at 11:28:01
Bill wants 𧶙 milion... one of these days, one of these rumours are going to be true. I wonder...
Liam Reilly
3 Posted 16/10/2015 at 12:03:57
𧶙M is being reported as the sale price.

It's no great wonder the club is unsalable if that's what's being asked. Disgraceful.

Peter Weaver
4 Posted 16/10/2015 at 12:05:40
BBC and City AM reporting that MLS franchise Sporting Kansas City are showing interest in purchasing Everton FC. Apparently, their CEO, Rob Heinman, visited Goodison yesterday together with club representative, Mike Illig.
Patrick Murphy
5 Posted 16/10/2015 at 12:14:16
Follow the Yellow Brick Road, Bill, but watch out for Cyclones. There may be an element of truth in this given the recent appointments of new commercial guys etc. But we have travelled this road before and it always seems to happen not long before an AGM or Early Bird deadline... so I'm not too excited by the news yet!
Patrick Murphy
6 Posted 16/10/2015 at 12:17:31
Everton have not commented on the rumours according to the Echo but they do mention that Suntan Bob has been to the USA in recent times.

Link

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Everton-refusing-comment-rumours-225m-10272631

Michael Coffey
7 Posted 16/10/2015 at 12:48:20
Well, from the KSC website, Heineman has since 2006 achieved in three key areas where the current EFC ownership has been found wanting:

- building a new stadium,
- signing commercial deals with global brands and
- creating a new model for fan communication.

Oh, and they've won trophies.

In short, he seems too focussed an individual to waste his time "negotiating" with Kenwright.

James Flynn
8 Posted 16/10/2015 at 12:59:27
In response to some fan cynicism with the timing of this rumor (right before an AGM), Phil McNulty replied,

"All I can say to that is that the information did not come from Everton — and that is 100%."

Who knows?

One thing for sure, though, the Sporting KC group know what they're doing.

Peter Weaver
9 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:16:34
It could well be that the Kansas City guys are just on a routine fact-finding mission to England and have taken in Goodison Park along the way.

Having said that, I can't imagine there is much they could learn on marketing from Everton although on the playing front the facilities at Finch Farm might open their eyes a little!

Eric Myles
10 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:20:18
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/34548860

Asking price now 𧶙 mill apparently?

John Keating
11 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:28:27
A bit early for half season ticket sales isn't it?

𧶙 million – really glad Bill has only the Club's best interests at heart... Mind you, after all the money the Board members have put into the Club from their own pockets, they deserve to make a few bob on a sale of 𧶙 million.

Mark Riding
12 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:28:47
Eric, I know the club is actively looking for a buyer. The price has been known privately for a while. Fingers crossed.
Max Murphy
14 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:40:53
Just read it on BBC Sports. Looks serious...
Julian Wait
15 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:44:06
Re: Operation Kansas

We'd have to rewrite the Wizard of Oz with blue shoes. Make em suede and maybe we can see Elvis leave the building.

This one does seem to be more legit to me, if McNulty is bothered reporting it and it doesn't come from the club. What's not to like about having suitors... and therefore being able to possibly move the club ahead? And keep Barkley, Stones etc.

Perhaps it's not about a takeover at all, and Kansas will take Howard and we'll get Butland in his stead? (Feb rumors: http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2015-02-15/tim-howard-eyeing-return-to-major-league-soccer).

But most importantly, maybe we'll find out after all: Who is the man behind the Everton curtain?

Jamie Crowley
16 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:45:26
The take over rumors from a US consortium are very real.
Tom Bowers
17 Posted 16/10/2015 at 13:49:45
The asking price and the sale price can be very different when all is said and done. If the rumours are true let's hope it all goes through quickly so that a better future for the club is assured.
James Morgan
18 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:02:14
Ah, the old takeover rumours. Move on, nothing to see here.
Gerry Quinn
19 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:15:57
It all started a couple of days ago when we heard rumours that some very 'VIP' guests were going to be at Goodison Park on Saturday to watch Everton take on Manchester United. Apparently these visitors were from 'Kansas', and were going to be there in person for takeover discussions. With the Annual General Meeting coming up soon, the timing was very interesting. We've been here before and nothing came out of it.

Then one very curious Blues fan tweeted a certain Robb Heineman if he was visiting Everton on Saturday, who then proceeded to retweet that. Still no big deal, right? After all, the Everton USA fan group just had a great trip to Goodison not so long ago...

Gary Sedgwick
20 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:16:26
Apparently the senior members of SKC board attendance at the game this weekend? If the rumours are true - potential buyers - then I would welcome them in a heartbeat.
Mike Keating
21 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:18:01
Just heard on R5 live that EFC are in talks with a US consortium from Kansas with asking price of 𧶲m but can't see anything on the web yet.
Paul Bassett
22 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:18:47
Hopefully this is true; with reports in US on it, there could be some substance to it.
Peter Roberts
23 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:20:00
BBC Sport carry a story regarding a new takeover bid from an American consortium who own the Kansas City Wizards MLS team...

It's not season ticket renewal time... maybe, just maybe?

Guy Hastings
24 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:32:18
Preki and Richard Gough both played for them, so tenuous link there. In fact, Preki is in the KCW hall of fame.
Antony Matthews
25 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:35:09
Let's hope we put on a good show this weekend for them!
Brent Stephens
26 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:37:33
Kansas City. KC. We're not getting confused with KC and the Sunshine Band, are we? Famous for: Shake Your Booty (sounds right); and It's the Same Old Song;
Ian Glassey
27 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:47:27
Come on people we have been down this road before (AGM coming up).

Move along now, nothing to see here.

Sam Hoare
28 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:48:47
𧶔-𧶲 m rumoured asking price. Didn’t he buy the club for 㿀m? That’s a serious profit!!

I wonder how many prospective investors have already moved on because Blue Bill was looking for such an extreme margin? Seems a bit greedy to me and that we are expected to believe it's because no investors have been ’right’ for the club when in fact it's more likely than none of them have been willing to pay the inflated price.

Anyway, I’m just going on gut hunches and maybe the figures are way off or in fact very reasonable but doesn’t feel that way. Either way it would be good to get a team in place off the pitch who really know how to run a high class sports team.

Gary Mortimer
29 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:57:42
Patrick #4, James #7

I am afraid I cannot shift my cynicism. Coming so soon after the announcement of an AGM, this does seem to fit the Bill to shift attention away from the usual "where's the investment?" questions.

No doubt in February there will be some more new ground stories.

I am positive we would all LOVE to see some ambitious and rich new owners, but until they're are in the news splashing the cash, I will look on with hope rather than expectation.

Martin Reppion
30 Posted 16/10/2015 at 14:58:19
In a typical example of its attitude, the official Everton website is ignoring the reports on the BBC about the potential takeover. As the official forum which Evertonians would go to, it should, surely, respond promptly to media reports of this magnitude, instead of a deafening silence.

Whether or not there is substance to the stories and whatever the club response will be, it does no credit to the club's image to take a three monkeys attitude.

Thank you for the 'unofficial' forums!

Steve Guy
31 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:01:40
Would be lovely but the timing just pre AGM lends this an air of rotting fish. Filing under "whatever".
Thomas James
32 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:19:17
𧶙m - If this is true the individual group above probably won't be interested, since the principle investors (Cliff Illig) is himself worth $1bn - (𧽂m) and most of that will not be cash available to buy the club.

Is he likely to spend a 3rd of his wealth to buy the club and then another 3rd of his wealth to improve the stadium and funds for the 1st team squad...? No, I don't think so either.

Mark Riding
33 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:19:40
Stones, Ross, Rom are worth £100m.
So price is about right.
Peter Weaver
34 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:19:55
I can't see anyone in their right mind paying that much for the club given that there are massive loans to cover, most of the assets have fixed mortgages attached to them, and a new stadium has to be built.

I guess the Yanks could 'do a Man Utd' and endeavour to load the purchase price onto the club against future profits but I suspect that would take a lifetime to clear.

In reality, we've yet to see any justification for Bill's selling price being even as high as 𧴜M but he's spent his life in cloud cuckoo land so, perhaps, this story is par for the course!

Frank Crewe
35 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:34:41
@Sam

That was in 1999. It was also for 68% of the shares not all of them. Personally I wouldn't want Everton sold to Americans. They're only interested in profit and don't have anywhere near enough money to compete with Europe's richest clubs.

We need someone who is basically prepared to invest 100's of millions without any prospect of getting it back. Like City and Chelsea's owners.

FSG took over at the RS thinking they could make Liverpool successful on the relatively cheap. They are now paying Klopp £7,000,000 a year. No doubt he'll want a huge transfer budget. A lot more than what Brenda spent and a wage structure to match. Not to mention redeveloping Anfield.

If we just want to go on as we are then no doubt these Americans would be adequate but if we want to really compete we need a multi billionaire with money to burn.

Mike Galley
36 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:37:32
Take-over rumour??? My understanding is that season ticket sales were quite strong and there's no real pressure to sell half season tickets. Can't think of any other reason this story would come about!!!
Eric Myles
37 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:42:55
Mark #11, actively looking for a buyer 24/7 right?

For how many years now?

Jim Lloyd
38 Posted 16/10/2015 at 15:58:14
Well, we'll have to wait and see if there is any truth in this rumour but, evidently, the story has not been out about by the club but by someone in "The City."

Not having a clue how figures are set (𧶙mill - 𧶲 mill) I must say, that seems steep to me, for a debt-ridden club with a stadium that needs rebuilding/replacing.

What I would say though, that if this story has any foundation, I'd me made up if the American group bought it. If we are going (well if BK and Co are going) to sit around waiting for a Sheikh, or an Oligarch to come along along and sprinkle us with stardust, we'll be waiting a very long time!

Jamie (14) your post seems somewhat cryptic (or maybe my nerves have gone!) What have you read?

I really do hope it's true but, like most of us, I can't help thinking it's panto time again... (Well, AGM time anyway!!!)

Andrew Ellams
39 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:05:48
This one sounds more feasible than most other rumours that have been around at one time or another but it's also very early days so no need to get excited yet.
Paul Jeronovich
40 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:10:35
If that is the price, it seems high based on the investment needed for a new ground. Their next stop is probably Villa?
Patrick Murphy
41 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:22:04
I must admit the most annoying part of this "story" is that a respected Journalist such as Phil McNulty doesn't bother to check it out properly before rushing to print. You can bet your bottom dollar that, if it was our neighbours, he would check with either or both parties and even if true wait until the club gave the OK to run the story.

The media can screw things up by jumping the gun on occasion and especially when Everton are involved. Not that I can see anybody buying Everton in the near future, media hindered or not.


John Raftery
42 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:23:02
Great story to put around on a quiet day for news. If any suitor is not prepared to pay £200m for a club in the Premier League you have to ask what they are doing in that market. It looks like a non-runner at this stage.
Craig Harrison
43 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:28:22
May be the price of 225 million is actually USD at today's rates that would equate to about 140 million GBP, which would seem to be more in the ballpark.

Scott Goin
44 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:30:13
Why are people so astounded that the price for purchasing Everton has gone way up? With the recent massive TV deals, Everton's valuation was estimated at £216 million earlier this year. Why shouldn't the current owners benefit from that?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-richest-clubs-how-6293748

Les Martin
45 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:37:07
I would welcome a US takeover if the conditions are right and Bill knows they have the best interests of the club at heart. Far better than having the petulant Arab or Russian owners of those other clubs.

Sooner or later, we will be sold, and a deal will be struck so these stories are inevitable; will it happen that this the one? Maybe it is...

Mike Dolan
46 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:46:56
The new TV deal adds millions to the club's worth. If Blue Bill (his occasional BS notwithstanding) makes a few shekels from the sale of the club that he has done such a brilliant job saving,then good luck to him. I for one will miss not having a local guy at the helm who I would remind you, seems to be universally loved by the players, the manager, and coaches at the club. They are the ones that matter.

I just hope that he will continue in some roll or at least fulfill his promise that any potential sale will only be executed with the goal of the continued development of our club.
John Keating
48 Posted 16/10/2015 at 16:54:33
Just a bit of info. There is a Manchester in Kansas and I have no doubt there will be at least one bedsit. Now, whether Mr Illig and his mates can all get in it remains to be seen...
Paul Washington
49 Posted 16/10/2015 at 17:01:34
To bastardise Yozza Hughes:-

"I can handle the despair... it's the hope I can't."

Robin Cannon
50 Posted 16/10/2015 at 17:03:13
@Frank (32)

I disagree. We don't need (nor are likely to get) an owner who just wants to throw £100s of millions at us without any hope of a return. That's a tiny number of people in any case, it's not really that great for football in general, it's not really sustainable in the long run, and I don't particularly want to be some oligarch or Arab royalty's plaything.

Far better as an alternative is some solid investment that makes us more competitive, but at the same time an approach that runs us as a high quality business model; so that Everton, not "Mr Billionaire", is the sustainable part of the concern; investing in youth development (which we're already pretty good at), commercial activities, stadium infrastructure.

I would far prefer a more Arsenal style model for the future than a Man City or Chelsea type model.

Kevin Tully
51 Posted 16/10/2015 at 17:07:46
If we are genuinely up for sale at this point, then that may be due to the Chairman's recently rumoured health problems. The rest of the major shareholders will be in no rush to sell, as the hike in broadcasting revenues will guarantee they don't have to worry about their investment as long as we're not relegated.

Bill didn't want to let go when we were on the verge of administration, so I find any of this story difficult to believe now that we are due to receive a record amount of TV money.

If someone is offering the sort of money mentioned above, however, then he may have no choice but to sell if the others want out and his health is failing. Compared to the likes of Villa though, I just can't see us being sold unless it was for a drastically reduced price.

Personally, I don't believe a word of it. I wouldn't even put it past this mob to leak this story to deflect some of the criticism that will be coming their way from the soon-to-be-aborted WHP project.

Peter Weaver
52 Posted 16/10/2015 at 17:12:00
I read yesterday that it has taken the Arabs almost than a decade to get Man City into profit – and that's after their absorbing huge overheads into their various businesses, no doubt.

Why should any would-be purchaser of Everton think there is easy money to be made here even with the new TV monies coming in? Villa at 𧵎M seems a far better bet.

James Marshall
53 Posted 16/10/2015 at 17:59:54
The same as everyone else, I wouldn't have a clue whether any of this has any substance to it, but it didn't stop me from having a trawl through Robb Heineman's Twitter feed... all the way back to 2013 when he put up a photo of a signpost in England with the words, "In England shopping #IWish"

Read into that what you will.

Dave Abrahams
54 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:22:16
Mike (44): "the chairman seems to be loved by the players, the manager and the coaches. They are the ones who matter."

What about us? The fans, don't we count at all?

Chris Wilson
55 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:23:22
What do YOU see, James Marshall? (cue tense soap opera music)
Ian Williams
56 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:26:31
Kansas City happen to be playing at Wembley on 1st November.....How convenient!!

Regarding the asking price, would player value of the squad not demand that sort of figure?

James Morgan
57 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:29:33
It won't happen! People need to wake up. It's the same old bullshit.
If it did, I would happily eat a massive slice of humble pie, but it won't.
James Marshall
58 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:29:43
Chris, I couldn't possibly begin to speculate.
Paul Ferry
59 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:30:10
Another Everton link - this one current - is that Paul Rideout is head coach of the Sporting Kansas junior teams.
James Marshall
60 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:31:21
Although one thing strikes me – they didn't (as per the title of this thread) deny talk of a takeover. They just said there wasn't any truth in it - which could lead a person to think they were alluding to the figures being banded about as untruthful...

Not that I'm prone to speculating, obviously.

I need to go to bed.

Gerry Morrison
61 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:41:58
Are there any sane Evertonians who want to be taken over by a couple of Yanks looking for a new "franchise"?
Mike Berry
62 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:49:03
Are their any foreign owners, who have been any good in the long term? The Glazers are running a huge debt, while the Venkey's... !
Joe Foster
63 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:50:39
This has legs. For all of us that have slagged off BK, this is going to be our moment of truth. This is no early-bird ticket rumour. The guy is not well and protocols have been put in motion.
Brent Stephens
64 Posted 16/10/2015 at 18:56:48
Joe (#58) — what protocols have been put in motion?
Jay Harris
65 Posted 16/10/2015 at 19:15:43
I don't know whether it is true or not but I agree with Robin Cannon that we need a sensible business model aimed at taking us forward directed by proper business people.

All these posters talking about the Venky's and problematic Yanks make me laugh. When one of our own has taken the piss for the last 15 years, lying through his back teeth and stagnating the club, I would even venture to say the guy in the flat in Manchester would have shown more interest in taking the club forward.

Steve Hogan
66 Posted 16/10/2015 at 19:35:47
My god, can't believe people are going all woosy and light headed at the latest illusion by the master conjuror and his faithful assistant?

Wake up people, this is what Bill's good at. A couple of yanks visit Goodison for Dunc's testimonial, get a bit of the VIP treatment with seat's in the Directors Box, and hey ho, were being sold for £225m...(Complete with 10 outstanding mortgages/charges against the club!)

FFS... I'm off to see the wizard... or the shrink.

John Keating
67 Posted 16/10/2015 at 19:46:46
Jay 60, a bit tongue in cheek I mentioned in my post (45) that there was a Manchester in Kansas, etc.

I just looked up the owners of this Sporting Club mob and one of them, Neal Patterson, comes from...

Manchester, Oklahoma. Not sure if it was a bedsit or not. This could become quite scary!
Rick Tarleton
68 Posted 16/10/2015 at 19:52:29
Please, Bill, give us a chance sell even for a £1.
Winston Williamson
69 Posted 16/10/2015 at 19:52:38
£225M???
Who in their right mind Is going to pay that fair a debt-addled club??

TV money is not guaranteed (relegation) and neither are player values (injury, loss of form and reduced time on contracts)...

I can maybe believe there has been some interest, but then they hear the price??

Anthony Hawkins
70 Posted 16/10/2015 at 19:58:05
I for one am not going to get excited until there's more substance behind the story. There has been so many false dawns that turned into fallacy or lies that this could simply be another number.

Let me know when we're in the due diligence phase!

Craig Harrison
71 Posted 16/10/2015 at 19:58:47
The difference between this rumout and all the others, there is a firm name attached. This person has also posted on his Twitter account pictures and fueld the rumout further. It's not the usual we have received interest from unnamed people and are looking at a deal. This one seems to have a basis in truth.
Patrick Murphy
72 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:00:45
Whatever the price in the end, Winston (66), let's hope somebody is 'daft' enough to pay it because the current model just isn't sustainable and Goodison Park will not be able to lurch from season to season without significant spending on it or a new place.

Current owners are unable to provide the money to address that particular issue so new owners, whoever they may be, are our only hope.

Samuel Muindi
73 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:00:53
Just some data for the puns and other amusing comments folks: Kansas City is actually in the state of Missouri. Go figure.
Christine Foster
74 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:01:55
I suspect this has legs. For one thing, the Beeb usually triple check rumours before they publish; a price has been stated; silence from Goodison; and frankly, I think BK has enough to deal with and he wants to divest.

The other relevant point to the comments are 'controlling interest'. 51% to be precise... that means Bill and another could sell the bulk of their shares and still keep an interest... if they wanted too.

For some reason I think this will happen...

Winston Williamson
76 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:14:51
Yes, Patrick. I agree. New owners are 100% needed. As you say, not just to take us forward but to keep a ground which is fit for purpose!

It's the price though. £225M? Just say that out loud! It's crazy. I could see that price being acceptable without the debt we have, but not in addition to the debt we have.

If it's £225M for the shares alone... that's approximately £335M when debt is factored in!

Brian Hill
77 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:24:20
Brent, probably The Protocols of the Elders of Zion....
Garry Corgan
78 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:25:47
Every few years, rumours like this crop up and disappear. One day, sooner or later, it will happen. Please God let it be now.
Brent Stephens
79 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:30:48
Brian #74 - ah, another load of bull!
Barry McNally
80 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:32:39
Won't believe a word of this until I see Illig and Heineman playing keepy-ups in the centre circle ala Michael Knighton.
Patrick Murphy
81 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:36:54
I agree, Winston; the price does appear to be silly money, however, NBC Sports write:

ProSoccerTalk has also learned that other ownership groups of pro franchises in the US are "in the running" for Everton as Kenwright looks to be gaining some ground in his hunt for fresh investment. Numbers suggested for the purchase of the club have been rumored to be around $150m for the team itself, then $85m for Goodison and then to clear the club of the debt levels it had in 2014, that would take another $50-75 million. In total, Kenwright and the board would be willing to let the club go for significantly less than the $347 million figure previously reported.

Chris Regan
82 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:49:22
I can imagine they were interested until they were quoted a price; then they changed their minds.
Mike Dolan
83 Posted 16/10/2015 at 20:58:00
Dave (#51) There was a time not so long ago when Everton had a roster of journeymen players and the only goal was that they avoided relegation and bankruptcy.

We now have at least four young players who are potentially world class and the "books" are good enough that we can turn down $30 million bids for our better young players. Kenwright is a friggin' hero IMHO.

Jim Lloyd
84 Posted 16/10/2015 at 21:00:23
Protocols?? Does that mean we have to go to the match in evening dress and drink our beer with our little fingers pointing to the heavens?

The more I think about it, the more I think £250 million is way to high. I'd love the Americans to take over and if they did a job along the lines of the other lot's owners, then we'd start getting somewhere.

Some on here are like women at a dance saying who they want or don't want as suitor! All we can do is hope that any prospective buyer/s are on the same lines as the Yanks over the Park

By the way, how much did Randy Lerner want for Aston Villa? That ground looks in a lot better shape than ours and I'd be interested to know what, if any, debts they have.

Isn't there a statement due from the club in November regarding the WHP project? If there is, I can't see it coming to fruition with this lot in charge.

Jim Lloyd
85 Posted 16/10/2015 at 21:03:45
Mike, Our Chairman is a Hero???

I'm going for a Lemsip!

Jay Harris
86 Posted 16/10/2015 at 21:06:07
While Rome burns Nero fiddles, Mike.

Or, put another way, while Goodison crumbles, Bill and his uber-rich cronies refuse to invest a penny of their own money while we pay millions in interest to an anonymous company in the BVI with the same business address as Robert Earl.

There is none so blind as those that can't see.

Mike Dolan
87 Posted 16/10/2015 at 21:50:44
Jay (#84),
Wow we pay interest on our loans! Unheard of for a business to do that. Good God, he had to go to an entity in BVI because the regular banks pulled the credit line, I would have preferred to take the Rangers route but I suck at Monopoly.

I think we just have to give Kenwright his due, he has at least put the club back on solid ground. Has there been missteps, yes. But we are on the cusp now where a relatively modest investment would get us into the top three on a regular basis.

If you compare Everton now to 10 years ago, it would be very hard to say Bill has done a bad job.

Andy Meighan
88 Posted 16/10/2015 at 21:52:06
Of course they are. Now take your medication and go back to bed.

£225 million indeed. Hmmmph!!!
Colin Malone
89 Posted 16/10/2015 at 21:57:32
Cliff Illig, Mike's father and co-founder of the Cerner Corporation health care information technology group with a net worth of $1.2bn?

Loose change to top team owners. Hope it's not true.
Phil Sammon
90 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:05:44
Dear god! Mike Dolan, expect a throughly deserved bashing! What ill-informed garbage.

I'm going to be blindly positive and put it down to naivety...

'We are on the cusp now where a relatively modest investment would get us into the top three on a regular basis.'

...definitely naivety.

Dave Abrahams
91 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:07:37
Mike (85), when I asked my original question, I thought you were taking the piss, now I know you are.

You're not related to Martin Mason, are you? Martin takes the piss but at least he knows his football.

Nick Armitage
92 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:19:21
Don't care how it happens I just want Kenwright & Co run out of the club. Money grabbing leeches.
John Keating
93 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:21:02
Dave (#87),

Regarding your last sentence, I wouldn't go that far....

Trevor Peers
94 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:23:26
That must be the quickest on/off takeover bid of all time! Typical of BK, obviously wary of the AGM meeting next month, has got his propaganda in early, to deflect the usual barrage of awkward questions that will pop-up at that meeting. Is there any link between SKC and Robert Earl?

We'll believe a genuine take over bid, only when someone with a huge fortune at their disposal, stands in front of a camera and utters the words "I want to buy Everton FC" and not before.

Jim Lloyd
95 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:25:51
The sad thing is, some believe that tripe.
Tony Dove
96 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:32:59
Peter (#49). You say Villa at £150 million is a more realistic figure but you have obviously failed to value the players in our squad compared to theirs.

I haven't done the maths but I don't need to... eg, Stones £40 million; Barkley probably the same... and that's forgetting Lukaku, McCarthy and others!

It wont happen but don't underestimate the value of the club at the moment.

Bill Gall
97 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:49:57
The only good thing to come out of this rumor is, the people allegedly involved are genuine billionaires, and don't live in a one-bedroom apartment.
Jim Lloyd
98 Posted 16/10/2015 at 22:59:25
I can't see that the players can be part of a takeover bid valuation. They are only worth that money if we sell them. Then we'd be up the creek.

The prospective purchasers would, I guess take over all responsibility for paying the staff on the payroll, take over all the debts which some say are around the £100 million mark, buy the shares from the various selling parties, and then look to do something with the ground. Or go into a massive development of a new ground.

So, assuming a new ground would cost at least £150 million. (That's my guess; if anyone could put a more accurate figure, please do so.) That mounts up to around £𧹈 million before we bought any new players.

I don't know that anyone would want to put that amount of cash into this club. I hope that the rumour has some truth in it but, if this bunch in charge want that much, I couldn't see anyone buying our club.

I think we'd be lucky if the board were offered 𧴜 - 𧵎 million, considering the financial position of the club.

Tony Abrahams
99 Posted 16/10/2015 at 23:50:45
Mike 79. I think Bill would sooner be called an Oreo, because at least then, he would be able to eat himself!

The men from Kansus, buying off the invisible man? truth is definitely stranger than fiction!!!

Eric Myles
100 Posted 17/10/2015 at 00:48:24
Patrick (#77) "$85m for Goodison". It's valued at $10m in the books.

"clear the club of the debt levels it had in 2014, that would take another $50-75 million" It would be double those figures in pounds!

Eric Myles
101 Posted 17/10/2015 at 00:55:20
With an AGM in the offing, this smells of a red herring to generate questions rather than have the meeting focus on the real issues.
Ernie Baywood
102 Posted 17/10/2015 at 00:56:12
I don't think it mattered what possibly fictional price was quoted... it still would have been criticised on here.

Surely £200M+ must be in the ballpark for a Premier League club with some good players?

Patrick Murphy
103 Posted 17/10/2015 at 01:17:05
Eric I can't say that the figures are realistic or not however, wouldn't it be a lower figure in pounds eg exchange rate ٟ = $1.54 therefore every million pounds would be equivalent to circa $1.5m? I only relayed what was written on the NBC website.
Eric Myles
104 Posted 17/10/2015 at 01:30:02
I realise you're just quoting a source Patrick, it would seem that US reporters don't check their facts just like their UK cousins.

I meant double the 50-75 to give £100-150m for the debt, rather than using fx rates.

Anthony Dwyer
105 Posted 17/10/2015 at 01:40:57
𧶙m???? How much did bill pay for us???? 㿅m I think I read it was. So much for not making money from Everton FC.

We have a good young side, that is our best asset. Other than that we have shite hole of a stadium, shite deals commercially and we rent our own training ground. 𧶙m... Woweeee!!!

Kieran Kinsella
106 Posted 17/10/2015 at 01:45:36
I live in Kansas City and watch a lot of games at Sporting. They've tried really hard to develop an English style feel to their games with a small, custom built, compact stadium that's a bit like a mini White Hart Lane.

You can see the owners are real football people as opposed to other US team owners who are just businessmen. The team is well run on and off the pitch and very well marketed.

The main plaza in KC has viewing parties for big games which attract huge crowds. Kind of amazing given that KC has traditionally been an NFL/baseball city.

Vernier meanwhile is the big Corp that college students aspire to work for in this region. With that said, it's a lot easier and cheaper to build a good team out here than in England.

The supposed asking price would amount to about 20 percent of the owners' net worth. Considering that much of the network is tied up in shares, real estate, illiquid investments, it's hard to see them raiding the piggy bank to plunder all that cash.

I just don't see it happening. They are way too involved here trying to make KC a football Mecca. They might have asked about it but I don't see the money angle playing out but who knows?

Gordon Crawford
107 Posted 17/10/2015 at 01:48:28
This is another bogus rumour. The US guys have already said, that its just not true. Just more crap before the AGM.
Derek Thomas
108 Posted 17/10/2015 at 05:10:23
It's either 'Don't listen to the man behind the curtain.' or it's actually on. I don't see any other options.

I don't know which worries me the most.

Mike McLoughlin
109 Posted 16/10/2015 at 05:22:48
Don't know where the club has massive debt, according to this article http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/31/Everton-record-profits-reduce-debt
We are 㿈 million in debt.

Now I am not sure about these rumours that the Americans are moving in. But having looked at what they did for Kansas, they have proved they can improve a soccer club in the USA. I have read on here many times that fans believe the business model at Everton is all wrong and the board are happy with mid table mediocrity and given our turnover that would probably be accurate. The question is would the Americans bring in a new dynamism with a new business approach.

Would or even could they deliver a new stadium while keeping the necessary playing staff required to maintain their Premier League status while the ground is being built. Would a new ground produce enough revenue to provide us with the funds to improve the playing staff. Theoretically maybe but what about practically.

I personally would welcome change at the top. Not because I think Bill has done a bad job, but more the circumstances of the financial situation we have. Looking at the prospective bidders they seem to know how to improve business and bring success. Let's wait and see, eh.

Scott Goin
110 Posted 17/10/2015 at 06:31:12
Mike @105

As you discovered, Everton do not have massive debt. It's fairly normal compared to other Premier League clubs. It's a little higher than it probably should be due to taking out yearly loans against the Premier League television money. They've been doing this every year since about 2005 I believe. The other major debt was a long-term loan taken against gate receipts. That's fairly normal for most clubs.

The 2013-2014 finances stated a net debt of £28 million and a gross debt of £49 million (the difference is the roughly £21 million in cash we had on hand at the time). The debt has stayed fairly steady over the years and, for the most part, has been manageable (other than in 2011 when they had to sell Arteta to satisfy the payment).

Matt Traynor
111 Posted 17/10/2015 at 06:51:03
Anthony #101.
On another forum, a poster stated that the £225m would ensure that whoever came in didn't just sell everything, pocket the TV money, then fuck off.

I pointed out that Bill & his "Friends of Everton" bought their share for £22m (rumoured to have then been put onto the borrowings) and had, in fact, sold off everything and were looking to fuck off with extraordinary returns.

But at least he's one of us...

Interestingly though, it seems from the interview Parry gave to the Red Echo that you can put all sorts of conditions and covenants on sales, but there's nothing to stop the buyer ignoring it all once the deal is done.

Phil Sammon
112 Posted 17/10/2015 at 06:58:51
The last two TV deals have seen an unprecedented amount of money shared out amongst Premier League clubs. The fact that we have any debt at all is unforgivable, given that we haven't spent a penny on infrastructure.

Why are we taking out huge loans when we're not buying players or infrastructure?

We know why, don't we.

James Marshall
113 Posted 17/10/2015 at 07:49:47
Everyone goes on about the board taking money out, but surely they're entitled to some money? It's a business, not a hobby.
Jim Lloyd
114 Posted 17/10/2015 at 07:51:47
If, and it's questionable, we don't have anything other than a "normal level" of debt of around £30 million or so, how is a figure of £225 -£250 million reached, as a realistic price for our club?

I seem to remember that the "asking price" if the board were to sell was around £200 million, when the Kirkby stadium was expected to be built.

So now, a proposed takeover would be asked for £250 million? As Matt has posted, someone believes that figure is only there to stop a "grab and run away with the profits" operation. What profits?

I can't see anyone paying £250 million for Everton and then either having to redevelop Goodison or build a new stadium on top of that.

I hope a group of investors are prepared to buy out the current bunch in charge, but more than likely, that's what current bunch want as well! A rich payday.

So Bill Kenwright is "prepared to sell if someone stands in front of him and says he wants to take Everton forward." but before they do, he wants £250 million?

I think they'd run a mile at that price.

Al Reddish
115 Posted 17/10/2015 at 08:05:31
The plot thickens...some are now reporting we cleared all our debts yesterday by paying off 4 Barclays and 1 Vibrac loan!
Jim Lloyd
116 Posted 17/10/2015 at 08:35:35
Interesting, Al. Where's that reported? I hope all I wrote above turns out to be 100% wrong and someone... at long last, is prepared to take our club and start running it properly.
Lyndon Lloyd
117 Posted 17/10/2015 at 08:39:11
Jim, the @watchedtoffee account posted a screenshot on Twitter last night.
David Greenwood
118 Posted 17/10/2015 at 08:48:36
Very interesting times at the moment. Fingers crossed.
Jakob Herd
119 Posted 17/10/2015 at 08:52:50
You have to wonder about the education levels and the basic business knowledge of some posters on here... Everton FC is a business for better or for worse, its nothing more or less and; its not even a 'club' in the traditional incorporated sense.

Bill Kenright is Chairman and like any larger organisation there are shareholders. The entity sometimes makes a profit and has the right to reward shareholders with dividends if the board see fit. Its highly unusual for the shareholders to continue to throw money in as they already have when buying their shares.

Comments like "they haven't thrown a penny of their own money in and continue to burden us with debt" just show your ignorance and stupidity. Who is 'US' are you a shareholder an owner of a slice of Everton, paid for with your own money; or just a consumer of their product like the majority of us?

If you were a consumer of McVitties Jaffa Cakes and thought " fuck these things are so good, every Saturday I'm going to eat a pack of them" would you then want to tell the board of McVitties to request the shareholders put more money in to make better Jaffa Cakes... then start harping on about the Jaffa Cakes you got in the eighties were better than the Jaffa Cakes today... Think that sounds stupid then read some of the posts on here...

Ged Simpson
120 Posted 17/10/2015 at 08:53:09
If there is any truth to the rumours, the key question is what is their intention and their ability and track record?

A takeover per se isn't necessarily a good thing. Ask Villa fans.

But if true and they are good, that would be brill.

Phil Sammon
121 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:03:07
Jakob

Sadly it it you who lacks sense.

Obviously we can't compare apples with orange-based biscuits...but are McVities one pack of Jaffa-cakes away from bankruptcy? Is the McVities factory about to fail it's safety inspections? Have McVities been trying to sell the company 24/7 for well over a decade?

Stick to the cream crackers, Jakob, you're in over your head.

George McKane
123 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:08:21
Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made o
n; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.
Tony Abrahams
124 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:15:58
Jacob read Matt's post 107, because that's what our present custodians have actually done to Everton.

James 109, your right it is a business and not a hobby, but the facts are that The Chairman, is supposed to be in it for his love of Everton. This sentimentality has allowed him to get away with some disgraceful manoeuvres down the years. As Matt says, AT LEAST HES ONE OF US.

Kevin Tully
125 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:19:56
Jacob - if you insist on questioning "the education levels" of the fans who post on this site, then can I suggest you learn how to spell "Bill Kenright."

Knob.

Jakob Herd
126 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:20:16
Phil 117
McVitties were used as an analogy sorry you missed the point....
George McKane
127 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:27:00
Jacob - - you know what happened to The Bourbons - - don't you????
Brent Stephens
128 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:32:16
Jakob #121 "McVitties were used as an analogy sorry you missed the point...."

If the analogy doesn't stand further scrutiny, then don't use it.

George McKane
129 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:35:09
You never give me your money
You only give me your funny paper
And in the middle of negotiations
You break down

1234567 - All Good Children Go To Heaven.

Colin Glassar
130 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:38:01
I've been doing some background checks on these yanks and as far as billionaires go, they are relatively poor (if that makes sense). What's a billion dollars worth these days? Sod all if you ask me.

I also believe they've used loans and public money to build their stadium and team which doesn't bode well IMO. For me it's Bill Gates or Warren Buffett or someone of real wealth.

Jim Lloyd
131 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:44:40
Many thanks Lyndon, I read a couple of Watched Toffee articles, and except for the big words which I couldn't understand I found them very interesting.

Well Jacob (115) Hope you don't mind one of the unedjucatid having a bit of a say here, becos I found your little post a bit on the objekshionabl side, like.

I wozn awear dat Lindon as put a bar on orl us tick tipes from ritin on ere an avin are say.

In my eyes, anyone who uses the terms US, WE, OUR, when writing in the context of their association with Everton FC are doing no more than expressing their feeling of belonging to and being a part of, a Tribe, a Family, A Club, A way of living that has gone on from Grandfather to Father to son...and Daughter!

Whoever writes on here, I would think, has a tad more devotion, loyalty and belonging to OUR club, than a packet of bloody McVities Jaffa Cakes.

First and foremost, most of us (at least some of us.,or at least I do) state openly that we haven't had a business education, or even an education. But that doesn't mean they/we/I can't discuss (even if it is an uneducated, unbusinesslike submission) any aspect of The Biscuits, oops Our Club that comes to mind.

Seeing as I only got 2 O Levels (and one of them was in Art) I don't suppose I fall into the class of the Educated Elite but I'm an Evertonian, as are all the other posters on here...I think. And feel that we all contribute to, and love for better or worse, the Entity of Everton Football Club.

There's a view that we are just Consumers, Customers, which I find Crackers (sorry about the biscuit alliteration.) If we are consumers, that means to me that we can just wander over to Park and go and watch the other lot.

After all, they've won loads more than us. Or more to the point, just sit in the pub with a lot of other reds and watch them on the telly.

From an uneducated perspective and I do own to not having much busiuness sense, (or any sense come to that,) I thought (could be wrong here) that if this entity is a business, there is a slight differencve between a shareholder and the owners who are also shareholders.

If it's a buiness then the owners would decide whether to spend money, or not. Liverpool's owners seem to be investing in the club by building a new stand, with probably more to come.

Spurs are building a new stadium, Arsenal have already done so, has have Sunderland, Middlesborough, Newcastle have redeveloped theirs, United have done the same and OUR lot have done, exactly what?

There are many views that come on here, some are going to agree, some are not, to any post that's put on. Some great discusions. some heated debates and some good laughs, amongst Evertonians.

However, it's rare that I have seen such a denigating diatribe of fellow supporters, sorry, customers, as yours.

Ray Roche
132 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:45:51
#125
"What's a billion dollars worth these days? Sod all if you ask me."

That's me fucked then.

Jim Lloyd
133 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:46:09
George... Shut Up!!
George McKane
135 Posted 17/10/2015 at 09:55:36
Now then Jim - - take it easy man.
Paul Morris
136 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:04:15
We need new owners to expand our commercial reach, finance and build a Stadium and grow the none TV business, I like the look of this. What they have done on a small scale in Kansas if they could replicate at Everton with the TV money could be perfect our squad is best for 25 years let's really seize the moment.

Personally I will never understand how the current owners failed and remained in control after the once in a life time Kings Dock fiasco, everything owners have tried to do since will always ultimately be a failure due to Kings Dock which was our Golden moment.

Sadly Bill and his friends lack serious business acumen no capable group of businessmen could fail to deliver kings dock it really was a winning lottery ticket handed back as only had 99p instead of a ٟ.

But he is a blue with passion for club they have steadied the ship with help of TV money. With better business men and more financial clout from Americans ideal solution would be for Bill to stay as Chairman and the Americans to do the rest, get rid of rest of the board, Elstone and his gang of embarrassing hangers on.

Our Chairman is also well connected and respected within football, when we sell players we sell for top dollar, if he had backing from people with more financial backing, drive and interest health permitting Bill could be a great Chairman for a few more years. We all know it is his friends bank rolling the debt and we all know they are not over committed they are helping a friend and making solid investment, even if price was 𧴵M that is profit of 𧴜, not a bad return on lending mate money.

Football is money these days to make money on Everton any new owner would need plan to finance and build new ground and to improve on the pitch, as fans if they can do that who cares if Arab, American or Chinese we need investment as I hate having Bill's dream of finishing in top 6 I want to dream of winning cups and challenging for top 3, keep our current young players for another 3 years we could dream again??

And a new ground or revamped GP is 15 years overdue and without new owners we will never have a solution to ground issues as Bill and Co are incapable of delivering ground having failed for 15 years to detriment of club

Jakob Herd
137 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:06:28
Phil,

What seems lost on you is: You, I, any non-shareholder or supporter of any football club have no right to lecture the Chairman, Board or the shareholders on how the they spend their's or their families money. It's really is a case of put up or shut up...

We all know that Everton have failed over the years but unless we decide to invest our own money; we have no say in how the club is run...

If this board decide to sell for a very handsome profit then in my opinion 'good on them' it's a business and they've just done very good business.

Have a cocoa and Jaffa Cake, I'm off for a pint, ta ta.

Jim Lloyd
140 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:12:08
Haha, see you later George.
Kevin Tully
141 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:15:13
Jakob - "they spend their's or their families money."

Please see me after school. Your grammar is appalling.

George McKane
142 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:15:54
See you in TDH Jim - get you a pint later in between talking non stop.Now then.
Dave Abrahams
143 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:17:03
For those who believe the debt Everton owe is £28M read Eric Myles at (96), he's stated over and over that the debt owing is over £100m and growing.
Kevin Tully
144 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:22:12
Reading between the lines, Dave, the mythical purchase price seems to include the debt. Not that I'm taking any notice of the rumours!
Colin Glassar
145 Posted 17/10/2015 at 10:57:17
Just read on RBM that this is now officially dead in the water according to the yanks themselves. Yes, discussions took place (in August) but they couldn't agree on a price. We are stuck with Chairman Bill until the end of time.
Jim Lloyd
146 Posted 17/10/2015 at 11:02:17
Ok George, after the match. By the way, did them Bourbons lose there heads over a friendly argument about Cake?
Jim Lloyd
147 Posted 17/10/2015 at 11:05:48
No bleedin wonder Colin if our lot wanted £250 million?
Gary Mortimer
148 Posted 17/10/2015 at 11:26:23
I was right to be cynical then . . . just Pre-AGM bollocks to divert attention.
Gordon Crawford
149 Posted 17/10/2015 at 11:53:36
Don't worry folks, there will be more takeover discussions, just before the season tickets are renewed.

I don't let this stuff get me down anymore, it's just another episode of, Bugger off, we're not for sale, and that won't change until Bill goes.

Mike McLoughlin
150 Posted 17/10/2015 at 12:05:51
Dave,

Post #96 says $50 to $75 million for the debt should equate to between 㿌 and 㿜 million shouldn't it?

There are approx $1.55 to the pound...

Or have I miscalculated?

Tony Dove
151 Posted 17/10/2015 at 12:14:25
It's all relative. Jackie Onassis asked Aristotle how he was feeling today. He replied 'a million dollars'. She said 'I'll call the doctor straightaway'.
Mike Dolan
152 Posted 17/10/2015 at 12:44:33
It's hilarious listening to you guys harping on about our actual hidden debt as arrived upon by Dave from Dingle while totally ignoring the actual figure submitted by the board of the club. It seems to me that Kenwright is just a poor slob, con man or thief who continues to make the unforgivable error of giving his all for his team that he can't afford.

Because of Bill's nefarious poverty its proven impossible to acknowledge that in spite of all of the evidence that Everton are fielding a better team, week-in & week-out, than at any point in the last 30 years, we are actually going to hell in a hand basket because Willy from Wavertree who knows finance because he works the register at ASDA says so.

You/we will all miss Kenwright because, while he can't pump in billions of his own money into the club; Everton are better at every level now because of him.

Mike McLoughlin
153 Posted 17/10/2015 at 12:50:42
Dave post 96 says $50 to 75 million dollars for the debt should equate to between £32 million and £48 million shouldn't it ?

There are approx 1.55 dollars to the £
Or have I miscalculated

Dave Abrahams
154 Posted 17/10/2015 at 12:58:45
No Mike you have not miscalculated, I think you have mis-read the article ! It said double those figures in pounds, but I could be wrong.
Martin Mason
155 Posted 17/10/2015 at 13:07:54
Jakob@130

Unpopular you'll be for saying it but you are correct. There is a massive disconnect with some fans who believe that as non-share holding customers of a PLC that they have or should have any significant say in how it is or should be run let alone when the owners should be changed.

Of course we have massive emotional attachment to the Company (not a club really?) but that alone doesn't give us a say in how it should be run. The Company is obliged to treat us with respect to ensure that we buy the product but they have no obligation to do any of the things that are often irrationally demanded of them.

RIP Howard Kendall, a massive presence at the club as both player and Coach. Best wishes today against Man Utd.

Eric Myles
156 Posted 17/10/2015 at 13:09:08
Mike (#105) & Scott (#106), the figure quoted in that Guardian article is the nett debt, the Club accounts show total debt of 𧴣m.

As for a record profit of 㿈m that's laughable as the difference between our total income and total expenditure was ٣m.

Dave Abrahams
157 Posted 17/10/2015 at 13:13:26
Mike Dolan (144) if you are referring to me as "Dave of Dingle" I 'm afraid I'm swerving you mate, not because of that reference but I've got enough of that sort of nonsense reading Martin Mason, but at least, Martin brings a smile to my face.
Brent Stephens
158 Posted 17/10/2015 at 13:18:28
Martin Mason (#147): "Of course we have massive emotional attachment to the Company (not a club really?)"

!!! We have an emotional attachment to the Company?!!! Name us one who does (apart from yourself). Such drivel.

And not an attachment to a club!!! Delusional.

Andy Crooks
160 Posted 17/10/2015 at 13:33:40
Martin, 147, we are more than customers. We are part of the television experience that TV pays billions for. Do you really think that billions would be paid to televise matches in empty stadiums. Jakob's biscuit analogy really doesn't work. If 10,000 supporters boycotted Everton, there most certainly would not be immediate replacements.

Finally, I don't think that Bill Kenwright views those who are at games with him as customers. Football is different to Tesco.

Mike Dolan
161 Posted 17/10/2015 at 13:43:28
I was not referring to you particularly Dave Abrahams. Dave from Dingle is just one of the thousands of forensic accountants who post here fanciful versions of Everton's financial status.

For the record, a business entity as much scrutinized as Everton could maybe post false annual reports for a year or two before Her Majesties accountants from hell came knocking on the door. More especially, as the intricacies of the secret set of books that are only known to the initiates of the inner circle, keep publishing versions of them on ToffeeWeb.com

Dave Abrahams
162 Posted 17/10/2015 at 13:51:33
Mike (154) okay mate, I'm still swerving you, you believe what you want to believe, I'll stay with reality.
Scott Goin
163 Posted 17/10/2015 at 14:37:53
Eric @148,

I'm willing to look at any financial statements you have that back that number up. I was looking at the Swiss Ramble's analysis of the 2013-2014 financial accounts where gross debt is 㿝 million:

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2014/12/Everton-blue-sky-mining.html

Eric Myles
164 Posted 17/10/2015 at 14:44:42
Scott, my figures come from the Club audited accounts.
Scott Goin
165 Posted 17/10/2015 at 14:53:53
Eric, do you have a link to those accounts?
Eric Myles
166 Posted 17/10/2015 at 18:42:13
Scott http://www.Evertonfc.com/content/club/shareholders-association/statement-of-accounts
Martin Mason
167 Posted 17/10/2015 at 19:01:25
Eric, your Blue bitterness is getting the better of you. Debt itself is irrelevant in a dynamic financial situation, what matters is the ability to repay it if needed. You are stuck in the 20th century and far removed from modern reality. My only worry is that people on here give you any credibility, you have none.
Eric Myles
168 Posted 17/10/2015 at 19:19:23
Martin, I always quote figures from the Club accounts so they are definitely credible unless you think the Club are producing dodgy account?

You on the other hand have consistently been described as a WUM and demonstrated your inability to understand what debt is.

On the point of ability to repay debt, the accounts clearly show that we are unable to repay the debt, unless of course we sell assets and the only saleable assets we have are the players.

Martin Mason
169 Posted 17/10/2015 at 19:28:51
Eric, I understand debt especially the concept that what I owe in absolute terms is irrelevant compared to my ability to manage it.

My worry is that people on here will see you as somebody who actually has some understanding of the true financial position of EFC when you patently don't.

Brent Stephens
170 Posted 17/10/2015 at 19:44:28
I believe in Eric. Je suis Eric. Pas Martin.
Eric Myles
171 Posted 17/10/2015 at 19:54:17
Martin, you have consistently shown by your comments that you do not understand debt or the Club finances and your 'understanding' comes from a Wiki definition.

All the figures I quote are from the Club accounts, are you doubting their veracity? Can you explain why they are not correct?

Or will you just continue to make spurious comments with no substance behind them as you usually do?

As for the ability of the Club to manage debt, do you think that increasing borrowing and increasing debt year on year is managing the debt?

Dave Abrahams
172 Posted 17/10/2015 at 20:02:12
Martin (160), Eric is a realist to me, Martin you are a laugh, but sorry most people are laughing at you, behave yourself and give it a rest.
Mike Dolan
173 Posted 17/10/2015 at 21:25:14
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-richest-clubs-how-6293748

This from a highly reliable source.

Tony Abrahams
174 Posted 17/10/2015 at 21:45:31
Mike Dolan, sorry I've just got in from the match. I'm normally home for ten past five, but felt I should go for a drink in memory of the man who gave us all back our pride.

Everton better in every way? We haven't won a cup for 20 fucking years,

DONT YOU REMEMBER WHAT EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB USED TO STAND FOR, MIKE????????

Just spoke to my brother because my kids are fuming that he's got a ticket for Bournemouth, and he said it's easier to fly. They are not really fuming, by the way, they are just having a laugh. But don't you realise what Everton Football Club, means to people?

It means everything, and 20 years without a trophy... and a ground that is a shambles, highlights everything, to me.

Kendall gave us back our pride, but The Evertonian, who has mortgaged us up to the hilt, has never had any real pride to begin with. He used to have holes in his shoes, and now he wants 𧶲 Million to relinquish us? Some fucking Evertonian that man is.

I watched the video on the screen today when Howard Kendall's Everton fucking destroyed United five-nil.

IN THE NAME OF LOVE, BILL, PLEASE SET US FREE!

John Keating
175 Posted 17/10/2015 at 22:15:45
Martin, after years of blindly supporting the Board regardless, I thought after the recent employing of additional commercial personnel you would possibly keep a bit of a low profile. Obviously not.

I seem to remember you arguing that, as the Board were all leaders of their industries and having vast commercial acumen, they were already maximising the club's potential commercially.

Those who argued against the Boards apparent amateurism were more or less called idiots. Possibly the idiots were proven to have a point...

Tony Hill
176 Posted 18/10/2015 at 15:32:38
BK is silent again at a time, following yesterday's sad news, when I would have expected him to have made some public comment. Perhaps he has and I've missed it. I suspect he is indeed struggling with illness and that is bound to have significant implications for the club.
Eric Myles
177 Posted 19/10/2015 at 06:44:28
Mike #164,

Link


A little older but a lot more reliable.

Eric Myles
178 Posted 19/10/2015 at 06:47:04
If that link isn't working you can try through this one

Link

Alan Williams
179 Posted 19/10/2015 at 08:31:16
EFC will at some point be sold, and that time is close mainly due to BK's illness, so expect some news soon. BK and his board's tenure will only be assessed on how good the new owners are and I've said it a thousand times on here: it's what comes next is the worry, not BK.

When £225M is quoted for the club, please don't make the mistake of thinking this is for BK only; he will get a share price and only receive 26% of that total cost depending on debt write-off. The price has gone up and so it should: you get a minimum £100M cash next season for being in the EPL, plus if you add to that the sale value of players like Stones, Barkley and Lukaku, then it's obvious why any owner would want upwards of £200M, so why are some of you so blind to those simple facts re EPL fees and player sell-on?

Any new owner could easily get their money back in two years so the value of any sale is based on the asset value and goodwill. Staying in the EPL and having those players alone gives you upwards of £200million. Why can't you see that when purchase prices are quoted? BK is entitled to ask for that regardless of if he 'deserves' it or not. Get over it — he owns 26%.

Jay Harris
180 Posted 17/10/2015 at 14:40:45
Martin (and Jakob), the fans did not have any significant say in removing Johnson, did they?

Or the other lot removing Hicks and Gillette?

As Bill constantly reminds us, he is only a custodian of the club and, in many people's eyes, he is the problem not the solution.

It doesn't matter how many shares you hold if enough of the Customers (supporters) want you out.

Jay Harris
181 Posted 19/10/2015 at 14:58:06
Alan,

I agree with you that the TV deal should enhance the sale value of the club but to only take the players and TV deal money into account is building the valuation on a falsehood.

There are significant debts to deduct from that plus the need to reinvest in GP or build a new stadium.

I would concur that ~£225m is a reasonable starting point provided the debts are taken care of out of that figure.

Michael Kenrick
182 Posted 19/10/2015 at 16:12:22
Jay (#171), this caught my eye:

It doesn't matter how many shares you hold if enough of the Customers (supporters) want you out.

If true, then I guess not enough supporters do want Kenwright out, coz he's still here, despite all the campaigns over the last few years.

If true, then it would explain how the club was finally rid of Agent Johnson back in 1999. (These are the only two examples I feel able to address.)

If false, as I believe it to be, Kenwright's shareholding has underwritten his control of the club all these years; it's ill-health that will lead to him being ousted.

If false, it was similarly Johnson's shareholding that enabled him to take the club forward / hold the club back [delete as appropriate], and other issues (Park Foods crunch, Tranmere ownership, etc) which ultimately forced his hand, despite never being anywhere near as popular with the fanbase. Remember, his ownership of EFC dragged on for over a year before Kenwright (and True Blue) drove the price down from a ridiculous £140M to something more reasonable.

At the end of the day, it is all about the number of shares owned.

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