Has Bill Kenwright finally found buyers for Everton, 16 years after his takeover of the club from Peter Johnson?
The Times and The Telegraph claim that entrepreneurs John Jay Moores and Charles Noell are leading a group of partners that has signed head of terms (agreed,non-binding principles ahead of a final signed agreement) and been granted a six-week period of exclusivity to examine Everton's balance sheet.
If true, it's the most promising prospect of new ownership at Goodison Park in years and would represent the end of Bill Kenwright's lengthy search for investors worthy and capable of taking the Toffees over. Chris Bascombe in The Telegraph suggests that while club insiders are cautious, there is "genuine hope" that the Chairman's pursuit for investment is close to an end.
Meanwhile, Rory Smith, the author of The Times exclusive, tweeted that, while it is difficult to gauge the likelihood of the bid succeeding due to Everton's "complicated financial structure", he had been told by several people outside the club that "the offer is credible and the intent is there".
Moores (top) and Noell (bottom) have been business partners for over two decades
71-year-old Moores, who founded BMC Software in the early 1980s, and Noell, his billionaire co-founder of venture capital firm JMI Equity, apparently discussed taking a 30% stake in Swansea City last year but those negotiations broke down over what the Times attributes to scepticism of foreign ownership among the Welsh club's supporters trust which owns 21% of the club.
Moores, whose net worth is said to be around $730 million (£492 million), eventually sold the Padres three years ago after overseeing their move to a new stadium but, coincidentally, he originally bought the Major League Baseball franchise from current Liverpool FC owner, Tom Werner, back in 1994.
According to the reports, a decision over whether the bid for control of Everton, apparently led by JMI Services, another venture capital concern of Moores based in San Diego, will proceed will be made towards the end of January when the period of exclusivity comes to an end.
The news of Moores's approach in Everton comes just days after rumours of serious interest from two other parties, with the name of Chang owner Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi Ė estimated worth of around £10bn Ėbeing mentioned as a potential suitor.
- Who are the men behind JMI Services?
Reader Comments (284)
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1 Posted 22/12/2015 at 23:49:11
2 Posted 22/12/2015 at 00:01:12
3 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:11:52
4 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:20:15
Though they seem to be a bit tight for cash, compared to other American owners. 𧺬+ million.
5 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:21:52
Are the half-season tickets still on sale?
6 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:26:31
7 Posted 23/12/2015 at 00:33:13
8 Posted 23/12/2015 at 04:55:12
They are not the billionaires we would have hoped for as John Moores is quoted to be worth around £500M.
9 Posted 23/12/2015 at 06:06:44
Moores was able to push through the construction of a beautiful stadium when owner of the Padres in the downtown Gaslamp district. If anyone has ever been, you'll know the location is great. His wealth only dropped back in 2008 because he divorced his wife and had to split his wealth with her. Since then he's rebuilt all he lost and more.
I hope this is true. He got a stadium built in a terribly difficult city to do so in. If you need evidence of this, just look at the fact that San Diego is now losing their NFL team after a decade of failure to get a new stadium agreed to. That's a cash cow that the city is losing. But Moores was able to get a baseball stadium built in prime downtown real estate, as part of a revitalization effort. Exactly what we need.
10 Posted 23/12/2015 at 06:12:37
11 Posted 23/12/2015 at 06:51:44
But we've been here before so watch and wait.
13 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:16:50
"Hi Bill a quick question, these 'Other Operating Costs', what would they be exactly ?"
"OK, Bill, wish Jenny a Merry Xmas, we'll be in touch....... No, No, we'll call you."
14 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:27:15
The area is being regenerated and constantly growing. As mentioned above the NFL franchise has struggled being outside San Diego. It will be interesting to see how this develops...
15 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:36:13
A) They aren't very rich are they? Not even billionaires, never mind Sheikh Mansoor rich.
B) Like Tony, I'm not too keen on "consortiums". Sounds like the mob to me.
C) I thought the owner of Chang was buying us? Now he's a multi-billionaire.
D) I still believe that Big Bill will mess this up and eventually sell us to Simon Cowell or one of his other showbiz buddies.
E) Whatever happens, this does look like the end for BPB and Sideshow Bob at last.
16 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:45:56
17 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:49:13
18 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:51:45
I can't help but be worried, as a Blue! Although Bill has certainly had questionable moments in charge, to say the least. Our club, I always felt, would be safe. By that I mean nothing like Portsmouth, Blackburn, Man City under the Thai owner and many more. Despite all their failings, the current board would always just about have us scrapping through, purely depending on the performance of the manager to appease the fans.
With these sorts of take overs none of us know anything about them really and that's what worries me. Everton as a club has a good heart and values, which is rare in this horrible money based premier era (note. see Chelsea). This is something the current board have to take some credit for. I just hope that whatever happens from now on, we can still have a club that's values we can be proud and hope that these guys realise that is one of our main strengths and add to it with good commercial management and a little funding!
Here's to an exciting 2016! Merry Xmas
19 Posted 23/12/2015 at 07:59:56
This smacks of desperation and truly has me in the mind set that Bill will now sell to anyone who is willing to stump up the dollar him and his invisible board members are willing to pocket and run with.
I wonder if we will get to see these so called board members as much as we see our current resident American Mr Earl who has been spotted as many times as Lord Lucan it seems during his board membership.
I am with the doubters me as to whether this is a good idea with that word 'consortium' being the key word here as consortiums never seem good IMO. Lets face it though it cant get much worse than our current plight of borrowing off peter (Mr Green) to pay Paul (errrrr Mr Green again how does that work then)
Two massive regrets us and Bill will take with him from his tenure will be the loss of the Kings Dock stadium and showing the sheikhs down the M62 were the grass is now a whole lot greener for the boys in sky blue.
20 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:00:33
Could it be because every time a transfer window is about to open we always seem to have our attention diverted by either some bullshit takeover fairytale or we have 20 days of "New stadium blueprints" to get excited over!!
Has anyone else noticed this too or is it just me?
21 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:02:20
22 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:10:40
I wonder if this is why we saw a banner behind a plane at the Leicester game thanking Mr Kenwright.
One thing is for sure, the players will now be giving 100% to win the game up to Jan... That just means focusing for the second half of our games.
Gordon Agree with you. I would rather see Goodison redeveloped rather then move.
I'd also like to see Mr Kenwright kept on I'm some capacity for a year or two.
But then I'd also like to see ticket prices to stabilise, fan base grow, lose weight and have more hair. World peace is out of reach...
23 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:18:10
24 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:18:25
Can't we be optimistic? Just for once on here? Just because it's Christmas, can't we say, maybe this might be the injection of cash we all know we need?
No? Fair enough.
25 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:23:11
26 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:30:28
Been here before many times but why not? Hope it happens though slightly galls me that the owners will walk away with such enormous profit despite never investing much and asking for a price so high it has driven off many potential investors.
27 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:51:06
28 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:52:15
Also hinted that Bob and co would be immediately replaced with a manager who has Champions League success in credentials.
Good news? Trip to Tyneside may be Bob's last match in charge.. I wish!
29 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:54:36
EFC needs some big investment in its infrastructure and for it to work the return will be low over a 10-year period; these investors don't do >10-year projects.
They were also looking to buy in to Swansea but it failed; I hope it does here too. We need new owners who will buy into the EFC ethic and invest and love the club for what it is. These buyers aren't interested in EFC they are looking to buy it for a future sale based on the big TV deal. Squad and new money alone gives you over 𧶀 million so this isn't a good deal for us but it maybe for them.
People need to take off your stupid blinkers when dealing with this subject; your hatred of BK clouds your judgement. We need new owners, agreed... but not any owner that comes along. Simple fact in football is the majority of overseas buyouts fail!!!
Man City and Chelsea have wealth these are leverage dealings meaning they will post the debt (purchase price) back on to the club; that's one handicap we ca'nt afford if we want to move forward.
I'm more worried now about EFC future than I was yesterday.
30 Posted 23/12/2015 at 08:57:07
That it's all true and that we suddenly become a team with money.
Just as Leicester show you don't need it.
31 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:01:12
These guys are smart and businessmen who appear to know how to get things done if the San Diego stadium is anything to go by. And you can bet your last pair of undies that Bill will have a clause where he stays on in an advisory oversee position during the transition.
I hope this happens; we need to move on with ownership, ground move and team development and make progress, hopefully this is the catalyst.
32 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:01:48
They are in for the money.
33 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:11:52
34 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:12:41
It is my understanding that Leicester's owners are minted. King Power have a lot more dosh than BK, and probably this American lot too.
35 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:16:17
Sounds like Bill is desperate to off load and his previous stance of only letting go to the 'right people' mantra has gone out the window.
36 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:19:23
1. The track record with San Diego Padres is excellent. Not an easy thing to do.
2. Why didn't they takeover Swansea and why weren't we their first choice?
The reality is they're businessmen. I think they see an opportunity to buy a football club in a good place team-wise for a reasonable sum of money. Add to that the increase in PL revenue and the opportunity to increase the value of the football club, with either redevelopment or a move and it looks promising.
I would genuinely hope that Bill wouldn't sell to a consortium that would threaten what we have. It would be nice to hear something from him directly to give the fans some more perspective.
37 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:22:34
Therefore his parting shot is to sell us and give us a chance.
38 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:26:33
39 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:30:13
Sounds right to me.
40 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:31:24
41 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:32:53
So long as we continue to be competitive and maintain the soul of the club, I don't have a problem with legitimate business people taking over the ownership. We may even see realistic steps taken towards building a new stadium.
I do, however, suspect we will be paying more in real terms for match tickets in the future. If it happens, it would at least bring to an end the uncertainty which has grown in recent years.
42 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:35:05
Mainly we need an organisation that can bring growth and commercial success. This would involve speculation but of course they'll expect a return.
43 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:39:48
44 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:45:30
Possibly, but it's fair to say their current position isn't down to them 'doing a Man City.'
45 Posted 23/12/2015 at 09:51:31
We desperately need any sort of major investment otherwise the likes of West Ham, Crystal Palace, and probably Leicester will overtake us.
One word of caution, though: it's imperative to get a totally revamped Goodison or more likely a 50-60,000 seater stadium to move forward and American investors I've worked with are horrified at the timescales required in this country to get any major development.
I retired in 2009 after spending the last 4 years trying to get a 𧵎m investment into Kent (US led) and the red tape, local planning rules, health and environmental objections, council and public meetings, Govt input, archeology timescale and greenfield usage just about killed it and the site is still unused today!!!
46 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:00:21
New years resolution, laugh in the face of adversity, after all we have no control over anything. Being a Everton fan is like buying a lottery ticket. You just hope one day you're going to win.
47 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:01:43
No doubt those who have been baying for BK to depart will soon be carping at increased prices at Goodison. But you can't have it all ways and these Americans seem to be 'go getters' with a good track record, even if they are in it for the money.
I imagine Bill will become President Emeritus as did Doug Ellis when the Yanks went in to 'boost' the Villa. Lol! But they will probably appoint a Technical Director or some such as a link with the football side. Any names come to mind?
48 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:02:46
If you go back to the FSG and the "Cheque will be in the bank in the morning", this is nowhere near that stage. So there's a long way to go here with all this.
49 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:04:59
50 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:22:14
I predict the next takeover story will emerge around May...
51 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:37:07
52 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:40:43
A big part of Leicester's success so far this season has been a decent player having the year of his life and good luck to him for it.
53 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:43:40
55 Posted 23/12/2015 at 10:59:51
Maybe in some dream world, the board will only take £100m and donate the other £100m for the construction of a new stadium / redevelopment of Goodison √Ę‚ā¨‚Äú something they were unable to achieve whilst in control. This would be some legacy and they would probably even name the stadium after Kenwright.
In reality, £200m to buy the club, £100m for a new stadium and say £50 to 100m to invest in the squad. How are any investors going to get any return on a £400-450m outlay on Everton???
56 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:02:55
IMO we then need 𧹈million to buy our own ground not some deal with the council/tesco/whoever but something like Spurs are building, smack bang in Stanley Park where we belong.
Then I beleive we need another 𧶀 million investment in the playing squad to take us to the next level that is 5/6 players at an average of 㾻-20 million, plus wages.
These guys may be putting the cash up front to buy us (or maybe borrowing most of that) and will they then saddle us with debt for the rest?
I'd love to be challenging for cups/Europe but not at the expense of having 𧼐 million of debt attached to the club.
57 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:09:28
Too many false dawns and tired smokescreens lead to cynicism, but with the rumoured ill-health of our Chairman (and majority shareholder), the remarks of other potential suitors and a degree of logic the excitement creeps in.
I was having a rather depressing discussion with my Dad last night about our current form, lack of investment etc and couldn't see a way for any success in the near future!
However, the following morning I read BBC Ceefax (is it still called that) and come onto TW and find this article! I'm choosing to follow the excitement! It is Christmas after all!!
58 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:12:07
59 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:12:49
I agree to a point, but does an investor need to do all you mention instantly? Could they not concentrate on the clubs infrastructure to begin with? Then gradual improvements?
Having a business plan and progressive model would be a huge improvement on the current set-up?
60 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:14:40
I can't find a great deal of anything... Where's Patrick Murphy when you need him???
61 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:16:05
It's just an investment, and they'll be hoping for a return.
As supporters we just have to hope that they see performances on the pitch being key to getting a return. Attendance is the only card we have to play.
The current lot haven't done a great job. We want better from the next mob. But I wouldn't be expecting donations to our cause.
62 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:17:45
Transfer window opening soon, half-season tickets on sale
What do you know? another rumour that we are about to be bought out!!!
How fucking stupid do these people think we are?
Good job this is my last season going the game for a while, my daughter now takes priority, as she will start to notice that daddy is missing every second weekend....and usually coming home with a cob on.
No 90 minute performances, no excitement.....simply no enjoyment any more. Bored of the whole football scenario and definitely bored sitting in my seat watching the team I love drain every ounce of will from me.
And don't get me fucking started on that plane with the message on Saturday........
63 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:18:50
Heard it all before I'm afraid.Even if it was true, Bill will fuck it up. He could fuck up a cup of coffee.
64 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:25:34
Is Gordon Lee about to be featured on 'Long Lost Family'?
65 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:31:31
On the Americans, this club is crying out for someone with business and commercial acumen. The fact that they have done this in San Diego is a massive plus for me as well. I don't really get the 'they are not billionaires' thing. The money in the Premier League has made that irrelevant now. Every club can generate money, they don't need to rely on handouts. It is a risk, but we have to go at some point, and with Bill's assumed Ill health, for me it must be now.
66 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:35:02
Kenwright & chums couldn't have done a more "dodgy foreign owner" impression on EFC if they tried FFS! They wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes if they never had BK at the helm, telling porkies about holes in his shoes in the Boys Pen!
67 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:41:41
Everton's current revenue streams, outside of the TV money, could not afford the debt and there would be no chance of increasing the club's resale value as a result.
There is huge scope for commercial growth in the states. We have complained for years that we haven't done enough to build on American players such as Joe-Max Moore, Brian McBride and Tim Howard. American investors, with all their business contacts over there, could look to develop this.
68 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:42:10
Is there an AGM coming up? Are they starting early bird season ticket renewals early?
69 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:43:06
Quote by Ron Burgundy.
70 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:49:08
71 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:50:35
Are we allowed to spend during a due diligence phase?
Funny that the 6-week period would take us up to the end of the window!
72 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:51:41
What prompts Americans to buy Everton FC? I just hope they're not asset stripers, we have 2 or 3 players that will fetch tidy sums on the open market for starters. It wouldn't be for the love of the club would it?
That's a very cynical view, I know, but they presumably must think that it's an investment that they can ultimately profit from. If they did sell players they would be shooting themselves in the foot and I doubt they would do that, at least not in the beginning. Someone mentioned that they would get worldwide TV exposure for their other businesses, and that's a good point.
On the other hand, if they recognise that there's great potential in this club and keep our top players and even finance the buying of 3 other top players that we are short of right now, we and they could be going places.
What will they do about the ground? We don't know...
73 Posted 23/12/2015 at 11:54:26
But somehow this feels different, haven't our current custodians have more cash than these "two".
Whatever it is and the asking price, we'll wait till Mr Green (not the one out of Reservoir Dogs, if there was one) to decide, but here's the thing, the weirdest case of déjà vu (bullshit) has come over me. Have I been here before?
Deflect the attention from El Bob to new owners. After all... we're doing not very well.
74 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:02:11
In terms of ticket prices we are a completely different fan base to Liverpool. They have an enormous waiting list and exploited it by raising prices knowing they could still sell out.
Our set of circumstances are different and our pricing reflects that.
75 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:08:05
No monies to be spent this transfer window, then... and the investors will vanish like smoke in the wind.
76 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:11:20
First, how far advanced are the talks? The Telegraph mention a 'period of exclusivity' but does this mean that Heads of Agreement have been signed as reported elsewhere?
Second, what will the bid mean in relation to future stadium plans, because this is surely the big issue most likely to derail any bid.
77 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:11:58
Bill Kenwright is an absolute saint compared to the shysters:
Read it and weep.
78 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:28:53
79 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:37:18
80 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:41:38
I think we are all wary of news like this because of so many false dawns in the past.
81 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:56:22
However, I would love to see new ambitious owners come in and help us shed the plucky Everton mentality that has been our malaise for years. Fingers crossed they are serious.
82 Posted 23/12/2015 at 12:58:17
84 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:04:07
At least they were football supporters.
85 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:07:52
86 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:09:18
If the £200 million is accurate I hope it includes paying off the debts the current Board have loaded onto the club. At least that would be an appropriate trimming of the profit taken by the current incumbents.
87 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:14:53
These US fellas have been sniffing around for a while, and Blue Bill has instructed Bob that whatever happens on the playing side, it is imperative that Tim Howard plays all Premier League games...
88 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:23:17
As businessmen I'm guessing they'd look to maximise revenue streams and sell for a profit 10-15 years later. The worrying part is will they invest in the playing staff? Only need to look at Bolton wanderers to see a shiny new stadium means nothing.
The other worrying thing is the venture capital side of their business. How and by who will the money be raised? Who owns the debt? As a Blue, your first instinct is scepticism, but always with that little part of you that dreams....
89 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:28:26
Let's just see where this goes; it could bring others into the fray. Also, I suspect any deal would wipe out our debt.
90 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:35:42
It is not about super rich individuals bankrolling clubs anymore. Man City, Chelsea and PSG are rare events. With FFP, it is harder to do it anyway.
We need someone with 1) contacts; 2) a strategic business plan to grow the club; and 3) expertise in running sporting ventures who can grow the club to be, at least in the main, self-sustaining.
91 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:37:14
Working on a shoestring budget won't bring success. If this club is to keep its young prodigies and attract quality players, then there has never been a better time than now. They have a number of players that are surplus to requirements and are ready to be replaced.
92 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:38:18
New owners with deep pockets who let their management team manage, redevelop Goodison Park, build on the current player roster with the addition of Rooney... now that would be worth watching!
93 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:40:08
If we are to be purchased, please let it be by people who actually have the ability and desire to redevelop the Old Lady, invest in the squad, and not just buy out the current owners, who have made sure that with the exception of one or two players there are no assets left to strip.
94 Posted 23/12/2015 at 13:42:15
I'm happy to take a chance on them!
95 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:05:06
Moores is one slick mofo and no doubt about it. Yes, his history is in building things; he built the baseball Padres into a team that went to the World Series. He did it pretty quick, too... followed by a decade of disaster on the field. If baseball had relegation, San Diego Padres would have went down; specifically because of Moores's ownership. So, there's that.
He got the stadium in San Diego built, yes, but mostly on the taxpayer's dime, while he got ownership of the stadium. Would the city of Liverpool gift him this way? They didn't do it for Bill and them.
In fact, I can't see where HE sees money to be made, unless he invests in a Goodison regeneration or a new park... which would take a few years. Plus keep a competitive team on the pitch, build up the commercial side, etc.
His history is of a fellow who can create things and make them grow on the one hand and a "me-first" shifty bastard on the other. Of course, this describes many self-made, rich businessmen, if not most. I've talked myself in and out of him as owner, several times in the last 24 hours.
He's been successful, so he COULD take Everton forward. But, he ALWAYS makes a profit on his investments, huge profits. Where does he see profit in owning Everton without a multi-year, sound, investment scheme in place first? Would he hang in there that long? That part I don't get.
Sooooo, I say pass. The "shifty bastard" part of him is in the front of my mind, right now. That could change again several times today...
96 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:06:53
Be careful what you wish for!
97 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:16:40
It would be ironic if these turned out to be the much debated VI deals, wouldn't it?
99 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:33:13
That man told so many lies and untruths it was farcical that he ever had the front to turn up to a game.
100 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:33:17
All we need is:
A new improved Goodison (over the next few years);
A new Manager (for the start of next season);
The same team with a few additions and were laughing!
101 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:37:00
Now, are we talking about Kenwright, Earl and Co or are we talking about these American guys ?
102 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:42:55
Quote by Ron Burgundy."
Probably a pretty good summation of the state of Everton's finances as well:
"How are those books looking?"
"Like a whale's vagina to be honest. Big black hole, sloppy as hell, smells a bit fishy, leaks springing up all over the place like Pinnochio's been strumming the theme tune from Pearl and Dean on her cetacean clit, clearly been a couple of massive cocks poking around in there over the years and going to take a diaphragm the size of Dawn French's arse to plug that shit".
Still, I bet Bobby Elstone's spot on impersonation of Brick Tamland went down an absolute storm during negotiations.
103 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:46:55
104 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:50:46
These two are billionaires, and Moores owns teams to win. He took a San Diego Padres team that was horrific and had them competing every season, probably one of the most successful periods in that franchise's history.
He also got them a beautiful stadium right in down town San Diego, something that was incredibly difficult to do. He hated having to sell that team, and only did so because of a divorce which caused him to have to give his ex-wife half of his wealth.
Of course they would be buying to make money, what the hell else would you expect? That's why you own a business, to make money. But it doesn't mean you can't be passionate about winning at whatever business you're in. And Moores does like to win. He also paid down a lot of the Padres debt with his own money when he bought them, FYI.
105 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:53:39
If it's genuine, I think it's good news. Everyone in football is in it for the money and I've been waiting a long time for the people in charge of the club to run it properly and impose some decent standards on the management and players.
Is it Bill's final and lasting legacy for us and is Mrs Martinez buying some last-minute brown trousers for her husband?
106 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:55:41
I'm nervous that it might be the latter.
107 Posted 23/12/2015 at 14:56:06
If these rumours pan out, what are the odds of a Mr Mourinho being approached???
109 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:02:16
I personally would take these guys with no cash what-so-ever. They've clearly got business acumen, which is a massive improvement on what we currently have.
110 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:05:38
111 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:10:37
But mostly, there is so much money coming into the Premier League clubs that, as long as anyone has a decent business plan, they can borrow the money against the value of the club, just like the Glazers at Man Utd. I know its not popular, but it's a reality in the modern business environment.
I know someone who bought a ١M business with 𧿘k of his own money. Paid the debt off as he had a profitable business and knew how to run it. That is what banks and venture capitalists are looking for.
The motivation will be to improve the commercial deals and increase the value of the club, much like what is happening at Man City at the moment. They are the club to watch and stand the best chance of becoming an "English Barcelona".
113 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:13:26
That story is incredibly misleading. Going into 2009, we also had the financial meltdown which meant that the revenues were way down in the city of San Diego. Southern California took a massive hit with the real estate meltdown.
And the line about the low payroll, that's actually a strategy in baseball for the smaller market teams. They lower the payroll in order to build up their "farm system", which is the minor league system of young players. When doing this, there is no point in having a couple of high-priced players that would only block the development of those youth players.
The Kansas City Royals did this which now resulted in back-to-back World Series appearances, with them winning the last one, with mostly those players who came up through their system. The Houston Astros did the same exact thing, where they nearly made the World Series last year.
It's not as cut-and-dry as that made it seem. In that sport, you're actually rewarded for finishing last by getting very high draft picks. And, when you trade away the big name player, you get draft picks and young prospects that cost hardly any money in return. You then let them develop for a couple years in the minors and hope you struck gold in the end. Kansas City did, Houston did.
It's just a different system that can't be compared to how they would run this club knowing there are no draft picks and losing gets you relegation.
114 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:15:32
115 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:30:37
116 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:49:04
117 Posted 23/12/2015 at 15:53:59
118 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:04:39
Trade away a big player and stock up on youngsters from the minors in the hope that they'll develop?
119 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:05:56
There is no doubt that almost anyone would be better than the current board. With Bill's illness and limited input and the rest of them only interested in their interest repayments and golden payday we can only do better.
Whether these people are the "right" people for EFC none of us knows at this stage and due to the complications of the terms of the deal they may pull out anyway.
120 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:06:35
How original, you're probably the 50th person in this thread to make that comment, which makes absolutely no sense. So are you saying that every season around this time we get a story in the national media that a group, with the main leaders named, enters into an exclusivity agreement with the purchase price announced? Care to provide the list over the past 10 seasons, since according to you it's a regular occurrence?
121 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:08:56
122 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:09:08
123 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:10:15
Stocking up on youngsters? Yes... but only bringing them through when forced to by injury. He's not doing that much to help the others develop otherwise, as there are too many old players with Premier League experience in the squad who will always be first choice, even as subs.
124 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:16:45
'Shifty bastard'? Erm: Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs? Do you see a theme emerging there? 'Shifty bastards' with cash get you in the top four. There is no bigger 'shifty bastard' than the one running the Chavs, read the recent biography of Putin The New Tsar by Steven Lee Myers and see what he is mixed up in and how he made his mountain of money.
Give me a 'shifty bastard' over Blue Bill any day of the week! It might well be what we need.
And the 'we don't want foreigners' or 'what do they know about footie' or (most naive of all) 'they are only in it for the money' ways of thinking?
Well, that's the sort of 1970s Peter Swales sheepskin coat frame of mind that will always make us second or third best in the current climate. The people running Everton since the first day of the Premier League and Sky have never adapted to the harsh commercialism and sharp strategic eye that is necessary to succeed today (unless your definition of success is 7thish). I don't know if this lot are the answer but I know that we need owners with their apparent commercial clout and zeal and 'shifty bastardness' who do not take back seats (eh Green) and count pounds to get to the next level.
I take heart from what seems to be the late revelation of this news. We normally first hear whispers and rumours before a ball is kicked that fizzle out: Kansas whizz-kids. Here it is a rather late and mature stage in the developments after 'months' of talking as we go into 'due diligence' when we first hear about it. Not sure why, but that gives me heart.
Now, this may not happen (delving into Everton's books is a chilling prospect) but I am certain that it is owners of this kind and acute commercial lens that we need to join up with the 'shifty bastards' party at the top of the league (respectful nod towards Leicester).
126 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:24:58
Call me sceptical but I won't be getting excited until: a) Bill has relinquished control of his train set; b) the deal has gone through; c) there is significant investment in the team; and d) there is significant investment in a new ground.
127 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:32:45
128 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:33:37
I will admit it was an exaggerated interpretation of Roberto's transfer policy.
However, I don't think we've gave enough time to judge the youngsters he has bought with monies that may (very bold assumption) have been part of the Fellaini sale.
It only takes one of Henan, Holgate, Rodriguez, Galloway or Foulds to make it and he will recoup their combined outlay. Some might add Deulofeu and Besic to that stockpile.
However, I was only making comparisons to comments made in David Barks #106 post and you are correct, we will never know unless he bites the bullet and plays them.
129 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:34:45
I have a lot of reservations after reading earlier comments (must build a new stadium (sure? but...), £100m? THAT CHEAP? £200m for playing squad? WTF?)
Please don't ruin this with unrealistic expectations. It's their money. We can support them with our money on club merchandise but we're not the ones writing the check to fund whatever grandeur dreams we have for our club. If anything, I would love to see a Wenger-ish manager seeing us through a great stadium build with little or no money but that's for the owners to decide.
If there is an item that is cost effective and easy for any owner, it will be to improve our coaching staff and make our academy world class. I rather cringe at the slow growth as young players improve on their mistakes than grumble about our tactics and youth development going nowhere. As Michael said, we're stockpiling talent but not using them. It's eerily similar to what my boss told me about my team buying a "Ferrari" IT system but IT is not letting us use its full capacity. WTF!
130 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:38:38
131 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:41:57
132 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:42:09
133 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:43:15
If it comes to pass everyone can then analyse it seriously. (Hopefully they will make the sacking of RM a pre condition.)
134 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:43:25
People also use the Red Shite as another example, but they fail to think about the fact that, with the exception of that Champions' League shock triumph, they hadn't experienced much notable success in the years preceding the takeover by the Boston-based group.
I don't know anything about Charles Noell, or John Jay Moores for that matter, but I do know about the Padres, being from the US myself and having a sizable interest in baseball history. They were founded in 1969, and had a really poor history before Moores bought the team (aside from some success in the 1980s). They've had 14 winning seasons, 6 of them under his ownership, and he also presided over stability the side had never previously experienced, and hasn't had in the half-decade since.
I really hope the deal goes through, but also really hope that after it does the club doesn't start buying players that don't fit the club's mentality, but having the ability to spend more on players that do fit into it.
135 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:44:33
Speaking of Bill, Moores is Bill's age. His wife of 40+ years divorced him supposed/alleged because he got himself a younger gal. Maybe he's one of those guys thinks he'll live forever.
Hmmmm, OK. I'm in. Sign him up.
136 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:52:27
The thing that struck me, and may be a sticking point, was from the article:
... it is difficult to gauge the likelihood of the bid succeeding due to Everton's "complicated financial structure"...
All those mysterious operating costs, I have heard that mentioned before once or twice, have you, David??
137 Posted 23/12/2015 at 16:59:28
If it is the same terms as a few years ago it is more to do with the share structure (and debt payoff) than the unexplained operating costs.
I fear messrs Earl and Green will be the deciding factor in this deal.
138 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:06:37
Have to agree with another poster, half-price season tickets, new season tickets seem to go hand in hand with, new owners, ground move rumours.
One day, I will be proved wrong, but until then, I'm not going to wet my kecks with excitement.
139 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:09:41
140 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:10:32
If Bill wants to make money with no legacy, he will sell to the yanks.
If he does sell to the Yanks, he has sold his soul and deserves the hell which will follow.
141 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:17:26
Is it a good deal for the yanks? It's hard to value football clubs, so much is about future potential. The reason it might not be a good deal is because we basically make an operating loss of several million a year, have done for years. What has taken us into profit is player sales, which of course we the fans don't like. There is theoretically scope to increase that operating profit with the new TV deal in 2016 which provides a big increase of around £40m. On the other hand, our cost base has been growing (player amortisation, those 'other operating costs' and of course wage costs) The two might easily balance out. At this point, it looks like a better deal for Bill.
Why it might be a good deal for the yanks is all about future potential. A new ground, with approporiate retail attached could be a massive money spinner, especially if they can somehow persuade the taxpayer to stump up cash (think West Ham's very wonderful deal on their new stadium). There are aspects of our revenue mix which could be hugely improved, notably our sponsorship and commercial income. Also taking out the £40m in loans with their very unattractive c8% interest rate would instantly throw around £4m cash into the model.
I guess if all else fails, they could flog all our players- who debatably might be worth more than £200m in total?, field a team of rookies, collect the TV money for a season, and the parachute payments and still turn a buck.
They're Americans, so it seems to me the right mindset here, to paraphrase a famous American, is 'do you feel lucky? well do you, punk?'
Right now, I like where Bill is sitting...
142 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:45:13
How fortunate for Mr Chairman, he didn't see that coming.
143 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:48:29
144 Posted 23/12/2015 at 17:54:02
Are any of many who aspired to the 'Bill will never sell' ' narrative prepared to restate the case, or were they always just sticking the knife into Bill?
145 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:00:12
What do I make of it? From what I know about these two Americans, and taking account of our decadent regime, I think this could be a good move, but, of course, we'd all like to know about their plans concerning the ground and team investment.
I'm for it.
146 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:15:59
If the sale goes through. Bill was true to his word, he said we were always for sale... If someone gave him the asking price.
Nothing wrong with a businessman making money, just don't believe the bollocks about waiting for the right type of buyer.
[I still believe it won't happen, by the way.]
147 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:25:32
Most of you lot on here know naff all about Everton's accounts, but talk like you do.
Most of you lot know naff all about what goes on inside Kenwright's head, but talk like you do.
Most of you lot on here know naff all about what happens on a daily basis regarding trying to sell the club, but talk like you're all board members.
IN FACT... MOST OF YOU LOT ON HERE KNOW NAFF ALL!!
148 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:32:26
And while I'm at it, let's just try and stop the constant Kenwright kicking. If he's really ill it does us no credit to be slagging off someone in his position whether we like him or not. We are all aware of missed opportunities and all the other black marks that stack up against him but let's cut him some slack until we know what's happening with any proposed sale and also his health.
149 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:34:03
150 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:36:04
151 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:37:59
152 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:38:14
153 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:39:24
154 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:40:48
155 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:44:15
I would bet money that nothing would really change at Everton if Moores buys the team. He claimed he did not have the money to add big players to the team even though the city paid almost $400 million of the new $500 million stadium. He said owing the $100 million kept him from buying big players.
San Diego has been one of the laughingstock sports franchises in America. Not because they were poorly run per se, just because they were not serious about winning.
Moores may get a new stadium built but there will be no big investment in players. He will milk the cow that EFC will become and sell when the time comes to make a very tidy profit.
156 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:44:59
As neither of them are billionaires I fear another Randy Lerner situation where he has bought Aston Villa to make a few quid but not happy to invest heavily in a club within the worlds most competitive league.
158 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:50:04
159 Posted 23/12/2015 at 18:59:37
2. Most people on this site complain bitterly about BK not getting the investment etc, but as soon as someone appears seriously interested, it is the wrong profile, or they haven't enough money.
Let's face it, Goodison is an embarrassing dump. I haven't a season ticket, but do travel (a long distance) to a lot of games. To then sit behind a friggin pylon is both a nuisance, and, as I said, embarrassing. It's a dump I love because it's our dump, but it really is showing the ravages of time.
Do we honestly believe that a billionaire is going to walk in then plough all his money into the club on a stadium, a load of Galactico's and corresponding wages bills with no return? Get real!!
Let's see how this pans out, as these guys walked away from Swansea as the fans wouldn't sell them their shares, and if they read ToffeeWeb, they might just piss off over the Sunset without completing due diligence.
160 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:01:09
161 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:03:20
162 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:16:12
Merry Chrimbo everybody and remember, your glass is both half-full AND half-empty.
163 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:18:25
None of us know what these Americans would or would not bring to the club, or what their future plans might be. We do know, however, that this is the first time in the 16 years of Kenwright's ownership that we've had concrete news that the club is in the process of being sold, regardless of whether it actually happens or not.
Bill has always looked for 'investment' and, if you believe some commentators, has never really wanted to relinquish control. Amid reports of his continuing ill-health, this news might well be signalling a new intent to sell up so that we can finally get the investment we want and the new ground we need.
If this takeover doesn't happen, it will be interesting to see how long it will be before another potential buyer pops up. Personally, I've always believed that Everton wasn't for sale... until now.
164 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:24:52
But why is there always a massive MAYBE! at the back of our minds? It couldn't be all the let-downs that we have had to endure in the past, could it, play mates?
165 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:26:12
On the subject of BK, I will only say that this man probably saved us when we were at the depths of despair.
But the world of football moved on, which meant that a very successful theatrical impresario did not have the necessary financial clout to compete in the Premier League.
Yet he has probably done his best despite our collective moaning, and I, for one, would wish him well whatever happens next.
On the subject of the Yanks, I would guess that their time of exclusivity might indicate other bidders.
Now that would be interesting!
166 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:27:59
167 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:29:12
168 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:36:27
169 Posted 23/12/2015 at 19:40:23
Yes, these people from the San Diego area will want to make money, but they may be more willing than our present Chairman and Board to speculate to accumulate. The only way that they will purchase enough shares to own the club is to see how much they will have to invest to raise the profile of the club, i.e. winning cups and titles that will give them a profit if or when they sell.
Loyalty to clubs is a thing of the past, and there are not many teams in the Premier League who have had the same owners for the same length of time as Everton has. The New Year will be here in just over a week, let's throw out the Old and ring in the New.
I doubt if there are very few billionaire business people out there that have not made more than one shady deal in their time, so let's just hope we are lucky enough to get in the right people in to bring in some of the rewards that we have not had for about 20 years.
170 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:21:01
Bill appears none too well and more than likely is looking at an easier life. As for Earl, well... what allegiance, apart from getting Rocky to visit us, does he have?
As long as Bill and Robert are happy with their return they'll sell out to the devil.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Bill will put any profit he makes from a sale back into the Club as a charitable donation... but then maybe pigs might fly!
171 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:27:35
Well be careful of maintaining the status quo. No trophy for 20 years, three failed (well the third is almost consigned to the bin) stadium attempts, no investment, no long term plan (that the powers that be deign to share with the fanbase) and a manager that boasts of bringing CL football to Everton which is looking more ridiculous by the day.
Yeah... be careful of what you wish for it may actually bring success, trophies, a new stadium/redeveloment of GP, sustained CL access and regular marquee players to GP.
It may not... but what I do know is that, with this regime, we haven't got a hope in hell of doing any of those things. Bring it on; let's actually be bold for once instead of knowing our place.
172 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:47:14
Make no bones about it: potential buyers have been put off, only investors have been welcomed. EFC could've been sold years ago. Only time will tell...
173 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:50:38
I pray to God they are not asset strippers!!!
174 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:54:32
175 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:57:14
176 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:58:07
177 Posted 23/12/2015 at 20:59:40
This was in South Wales and he supports Man Utd so no need to think it's not true, especially with the news today. It could finally be happening.
178 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:06:41
179 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:16:09
Plenty of ire towards Kenwright and Earl who stand to gain big as major shareholders.... but not a single mention of Woods, who was an (almost) equally major shareholder last time I looked. How so? What makes him immune to the 'profiteering' jibes?
Assuming the 𧶀M buys out all three majors, that's a cool ٦,400 per share √ā‚ÄĒ a heck of a premium on the 𨀑 per share paid by BK's True Blue Holdings for Johnson's shares... and a whopping 980% gross return!!! (Perhaps someone who does compound interest can compute the eye-watering annual RoI?)
The common wisdom is it's not merited; however, sinking 㿀M into the potential black hole that no-one else wanted to take on was one hell of a risk at the time (perhaps less so if underwritten by Sir Philip Green).
And what's this about Swansea shareholder/fans not willing to sell? Is it optional or required that the new owners offer the same deal to all shareholders? In which case, the per share price may be as low as ٣,700.
180 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:27:44
His history is of a fellow who can create things and make them grow on the one hand and a "me-first" shifty bastard on the other. Of course, this describes many self-made, rich businessmen, if not most. I've talked myself in and out of him as owner, several times in the last 24 hours.
I agree with this. Having followed baseball my whole life here's my take on this guy. He WILL try to win. But he WILL fuck your wife while your head is turned. And if it starts to go south? He'll let it continue south.
It's boom or bust with this gold-diggin' 'Merican.
I'm SO on the fencepost about this. My gut says hopefully it goes through and then start praying it never turns south.
181 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:27:54
182 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:30:44
183 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:36:34
Nobody knows if they will be right for us, and without wishing to go over old ground, the time for change was years ago.
I thought it was a great touch at half-time on Saturday, having all those kids from Alder Hey, on the pitch, but we used to exist to win things, and I would love to see us genuinely competing again.
184 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:38:01
And I have to reiterate, this is a bit of a scary thing. Moores absolutely built an AMAZING team with the Padres and then just stripped the ever-loving shit out of them.
I want Everton to be a powerhouse. And this guy can take us there. But he will also scrap us on a heap of dung in 5 to 7 years if he can make a buck.
185 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:40:42
If it goes ahead, the fact they don't have billions is not a problem to me as the club's turnover places it in the 20 richest clubs in the world and sharp businessmen should be capable of using that finance to make the club successful.
My big worry is the ground. I don't want a Lego build in the sticks or in a park. I want Goodison revived and sharp business men would pay to have roads moved, schools rebuilt and a renewed Goodison developed to 55/60k capacity.
186 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:55:35
187 Posted 23/12/2015 at 21:56:54
Can you imagine if Moores buys Everton, and THEN another shady business deal of his unravels? What would happen to our club then?
188 Posted 23/12/2015 at 22:07:40
Nonono. The only thing common is that they're American. Lerner's dad made the family fortune. Lerner is the do-nothing son who inherited the fortune. Ran the NFL Cleveland Browns into a laughing stock. Preordained he'd do poorly with Villa.
Moores is a self-made man. If he gets control, we'll see how well he does. You never know, after all. But any comparison between his success in business and Lerner's is a non-starter.
189 Posted 23/12/2015 at 23:53:49
Is this another story to sell season tickets? Well, Mr Kenwright is not a young man, it's going to happen one day, why not now? Sky are reporting it, so some credibility. My only concern is the debt. American owners will treat Everton as a business, no loyalty to the club or fans.
An example of this is Aston Villa, slowly selling top players over three to four years. They will be lucky to stay up next season in the Championship. Or Everton may rise again and this may be the best thing to happen to the club.
191 Posted 24/12/2015 at 00:48:28
"Is it optional or required that the new owners offer the same deal to all shareholders?"
I think this only applies to publicly-quoted companies, and then only if someone buys at least 75% of the stock, in which case they have to make the same offer to the remaining shareholders. Kenwright's, Earl's and Woods' combined holdings falls some way short of that figure.
192 Posted 24/12/2015 at 00:56:02
These guys appear to have both certainly from a "getting things done" perspective. What's concerning though is will they just look to get a stadium built, maximise revenue in all other areas, but take the large majority of the profits and cut the wage bill, leaving us a mid-level team?
Will they further saddle the club with debt, or do they a see a sleeping giant and understand that the only way they will maximise revenue and profits is to grow the club and for the club to become successful.
Success means more (Worldwide) exposure = more bums on seats, more (Worldwide) shirt sales, commercial sponsorships etc.
I would like to see prior to the sale a public statement from or an MOU of the swale between them and the current board of just what exactly their intentions and business plans are and how they intend achieving them.
Whilst it does not legally commit them to following through, it does act as a deterrent for them to not ride roughshod over the club without the fans calling them to task.
It also stops them from saying that they never said at any point during the purchase of the club that they would "saddle the club with debt" ...
Whilst ultimately you expect them to be looking to make a significant return on their investment, they can do this whilst it runs concurrent to the growth as success of the football Club.
The best thing they can do if they want to do this is to engender with fan groups and get their support, be transparent about plans and work alongside the fans.
If they look to avoid this you can be assured that they are charlatans looking to fuck the club over to make a profit.
194 Posted 24/12/2015 at 01:27:35
195 Posted 24/12/2015 at 01:28:13
The TV money is obscene next year and is likely to continue for a least a few years after that, easily replenishing your 𧶀 million outlay.
We have several players who, when sold this year, or maybe next, will accrue well over 𧴜 million... for no further investment... and there's a few others who will swell your bank account too!
Whilst we do have a decrepit stadium we've had it so long that there's demonstrably no will whatsoever even amongst the current board or, more seriously, local, UK or European government, to do anything about it, so why should you even think about it?
The fans are clearly passive about all of the above, and have been for many years, because for virtually every match they fill the ground even though a significant percentage are even afforded a full view of the pitch.
So, in short, please buy us for 𧶀mill, giving the board a massive return on our comparatively paltry input, you get rich quick on our back whatever the cost to the... er... what are they called again Bobby El?... Oh yes, the fans, yes, thank you for that, and then fuck off leaving one of the founder members of the entire 19th century fucking football enterprise as no more than a distant memory.
What's not to like?
As our motto says to any ruthless, money grabbing, cheap-skate, debt loading pirate, "Nothing But The Best Is Good Enough"... for you!
196 Posted 24/12/2015 at 01:35:32
So what if Kenwright et al make a big profit? Why didn't some of you guys stump up the bargain £20 million back in 98? Only hindsight makes the £20 mill a bargain. You lot could have borrowed and bought the shares... ah, but you didn't. Just criticise people who did. If our club is worth £200 mill, why on earth would they sell for less to some Yanks?
Coming to the possible purchase, two hillbilly private equity guys say they might buy and you all start frothing at the mouth. Kenwright promised he would only sell to people who he felt were suitable as owners of our club and had some affinity with the club. When he said that, I really thought private equity guys would be the LAST people considered suitable. These guys wanted Swansea but a wise section of theirs supporters told them to 'op it. So they look for some other patsy to buy.
Just what I needed for Christmas, the promise that we might have two American owners, rather like that super successful team across the park. Two lots of American owners, money spent, and still they are shite. I wish the yanks would stick to playing rounders frankly.
197 Posted 24/12/2015 at 04:13:25
Everton are very weak right now, our chairman is old and sick, plus we could end up being saddled with debt.
I hope Kenwright will investigate and stop being as naive as he was when he hired Martinez.
I really hope Kenwright will stay in place for the time being,– there are horror stories with new owners out there, and I love this club just as it is.
198 Posted 24/12/2015 at 06:21:50
All this is based on the assumption that £200m is a figure offered for all shares. If as you indicate it might for TBH shares only, then the valuation of the club is even higher.
Regarding your observation around a minority of shareholders obstructing a deal, and the requirement to make an offer to them, it really depends on what was structured in the shareholders agreement. Nothing is automatic in my experience as the regulations in respect of minority shareholders for private companies are less onerous than those in listed ones.
One assumes that those who bought more than 1 share did spend money on advice and structured tag and drag rights, which would automatically require the same offer for their shares (unless the tag has a different price attached).
All conjecture given the secrecy around the shareholder agreements.
Regarding a comment by Phil Walling on the expensive VI loans not having the facility to be repaid, that is strictly not possible in law. Anyone can repay their debts at any time and cannot be forced to keep debt into perpetuity if they have the means to repay.
What lenders can however do is insert an early repayment penalty which can be eye watering.
The VI loans from memory are annual so in cash terms the penalties should not be that great. The loan securitised on season tickets has a few years to run so that is another matter entirely....
199 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:01:18
If they are doing due diligence on us, I hope we're doing the same on them.
200 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:19:29
I have almost zero knowledge or understanding of Company Law, so I'm wondering if this US based consortium is looking to "Buy IN" rather than "Buy OUT"?
Would they still be accorded a period of exclusivity for due diligence if they were "Buying IN"?
Given the amount of speculation regarding BK's health, a "Buy OUT" would seem far more likely.
201 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:20:27
202 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:25:48
I've read some reports that the two are worth about £800 million combined, while others say their worth a billion each.
They've owned a MLB team, but their knowledge of, and passion for football (if any) is unknown. Is this just an investment opportunity by a couple of yanks, looking to make a killing, or could they invest some serious money into what we have and make Everton a football power again?
We need a new stadium investment;
We need to own and upgrade Finch Farm investment;
We need to strengthen the squad investment;
We need some serious investment.
I have no quarrel with the present board. BK and Co are millionaires, trying to compete with billionaires. It's a no-win situation. The time for change, because of a few reasons, BK's health being just one, is now.
It's early days. The club hasn't even acknowledged that there's even interest. It could amount to nothing, but one thing I'm positive about is we can't stay where we are. We are treading water at best. Some aren't to sure about going forward with Moores and Noell, but they may be exactly what we need... or not.
We we will find out, one way or the other in a month and a half.
203 Posted 24/12/2015 at 07:48:09
There may be some understanding between the major shareholders but, to my knowledge, there is no shareholders agreement for the smaller 'investors'.
David (#182) thanks for the clarification.
204 Posted 24/12/2015 at 08:43:12
Will we see ticket prices rise? Will we see a bigger squad, better players, big manager and perhaps most imminently a new stadium? The answer is the thickness and quality of the cloth we will work with will vary according to one thing only. Profit. That might be by attracting more customers or better paid customers or probably both. Get used to it fast cos after Kenwright there will be no soft soaping pay or leave.
Upset about the vote for a stadium last time? Don't worry there won't be one this time. Great community, guys... but it has to pay its way.
Of course that is the way forward to winning again and that is what we all want right?
206 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:06:35
I just wonder how you know or what evidence there is that these loans can not be repaid early?
Also wondered why they are renewed or whatever the phrase is each year?
207 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:16:58
Regards shareholder agreements, I would be very interested to know if these exist, and I believe it is very relevant right now to Everton. If an agreement exists, then, as I understand it the recipient of proceeds is liable to IHT on said proceeds and that is why many Companies use Buy/Sell options as they are not subject to IHT.
208 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:23:05
209 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:23:37
Naïve? Maybe but I am just a football fan...not an accountant or soothsayer! Bring it on.
210 Posted 24/12/2015 at 09:24:39
In the end we came to the same conclusion we did at the weekend regarding the manager's position. As fans we have our firmly held opinions but no say and rely heavily on the board to get these decisions right so that in the end we see progress.
The takeover especially, if it comes to fruition, is massive so we wish those with the power to be blessed with wisdom and deliver our club into hands that will become great Evertonian hands.
We have no say but we will judge.
UP THE BLUES
211 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:10:43
Everton is a football club. Football clubs aim to win. This is the only way we can stay within sight of that ambition.
Bring it on.
212 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:41:48
Looking at the link you posted,do you think our prospective new owner will pass Mr Chairman’s fit and proper test?
After all, Bill has told us repeatedly he will only sell to someone with the club’s best interest at heart.
213 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:44:47
Totally agree with your first paragraph. BK was a saviour of this club when his consortium bought the club. He is slagged off without mercy by some posters, but he bought the club he loved.
I respect anyone who has the ability to put together a deal to buy a football club because I'm only just about smart enough to buy a second hand car.
214 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:57:00
215 Posted 24/12/2015 at 10:59:46
The only reason he can sell for 10 times what he paid is the Sky TV money. We have less assets than when he took over, still in the same stadium and he hasn't invested a penny more than the bare minimum.
Time for him to NAFF OFF and let someone else have a go.
216 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:01:03
217 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:25:09
Is it enough? Not for me, but he's been at the helm of a club that has performed well relative to most of its competitors, if not relative to its history.
Obviously time for new ideas and a fresh approach but I'll go into it with a fair degree of trepidation.
218 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:28:48
219 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:30:44
220 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:38:23
Billy Liar and Elstone will probably pen some yarn about both of their "Pa's" being stationed at Burtonwood during "war time" and went the match when they could...
Being Everton, it will fall over once these two carpetbaggers start negotiating with the chuckle brothers and associated panhandlers running the place.
Six weeks due diligence will crunch to a halt once they realise we own nothing / have nothing and are mortgaged up to the hilt with some clause in there saying we have already borrowed against the next 50 years of TV income .
221 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:42:16
Leicester City are proving you don't need loads of money to make the difference on the field, just a manager who knows what he is doing.
222 Posted 24/12/2015 at 11:57:12
On the other hand, at least get into Europe and perform reasonably well, and that could develop a momentum of its own financially.
223 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:07:15
There are also some quite good pieces of analysis on our financial position, the pros and cons. Here is one that I think is quite easy to follow and covers most of the salient points:
As for Bill and the boys making their sackloads of profit, I've always said that they are all in it for a buck and that there was never going to be a sale unless it hit their expectations. If the sums quoted are correct, I reckon he's had a return of roughly 12-14% pa on his investment very attractive but not rapacious for what is a high risk investment. I don't begrudge him his pension pot Everton Behind Blue Eyesothers had the chance to do the same as he did at the time.
224 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:33:42
225 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:37:31
226 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:51:00
227 Posted 24/12/2015 at 12:56:33
Rob, there is, however, enough evidence about the lies, deceit and failing to do the right thing by Everton all perpetrated by Kenwright over his term as a director and chairman to make a lot of Evertonians distrust the man completely.
If this deal comes off, he will be a hero to many, when the truth will be he has definitely looked after himself at the expense of this club and therefore most of us.
228 Posted 24/12/2015 at 13:06:37
229 Posted 24/12/2015 at 14:50:48
Of the four clubs currently controlled from USA, only Manchester United have won the league and they have become more and more a money machine as the years have gone on. Football seems to have become a side show under the wierdo Glasers in spite of their commercial success.
Our neighbours across the park have had some torrid times and it worries me that our potential 'saviours', Moores and Noell, seem cut from the same cloth as Gillette and Hicks.
The other two 'Yankee' owned clubs, Aston Villa and Sunderland look likely to drop to the Championship as they have gradually sunk to the depths in recent years under financiers Lerner and Short respectively.
Like others on this thread, I smell carpetbaggers afoot and after all the mistakes he has made during his stewardship I fear that if BK sells to this lot it will be the biggest of them all.
Out of the frying pan........
230 Posted 24/12/2015 at 16:01:54
The facts are that Bill inherited a net asset position which for clarity means our assets were worth more than all our liabilities and within 2 years turned that into a net liability position which for clarity means we had more liabilities than assets.
If we hadn't have sold Rooney (who wasn't counted in the assets he inherited) we would have been insolvent.
So please stop this nonsense about saving the club.
231 Posted 24/12/2015 at 16:35:53
Is the Heads of Terms which has been reported as being agreed between TBH and the potential buyers?
232 Posted 24/12/2015 at 17:17:36
Firstly, the BK consortium (and there were a handful of others involved we no longer hear much about, besides the Greggs obviously) actually set up their own shares in TBH.
TBH was then a true Holding Company in that it bought out Peter Johnson's shares... and at a knock-down price, driven down over a period of around 12 months, starting from something around 𧵄 Million! I agree with you that they must have had some form of Shareholders Agreement for the TBH shares.
Secondly, it was a year or two after the TBH takeover, that TBH itself was wound up, and the Everton Shares were divvied out amongst the Politburo √ā‚Äď I think it was only at that point that Bill Kenwright officially became Chairman (or was that later)?
So any current or impending Heads of Terms agreement will not involve TBH as it no longer exists. It will be directly with EFC Co Ltd, I imagine.
233 Posted 24/12/2015 at 17:26:27
They have benefited from third party ownership when it was allowed and from connections with the agent, Mendes, but it is also a case of a club with serious strategic will and ambition and, of course, with a manager who has an iron will of his own.
We certainly can turn ourselves around but we have to become a harder, far more determined organisation with the right people in the right positions. As fans it is possible through forums like this and through direct submissions to the club to make our feelings known and we should all certainly be scrutinising this latest news.
It may prove a real chance for the club, it may not, but we cannot abdicate our responsibility to try and ensure that Everton takes the best possible course. I think this is going to be the most important 6-12 months our history.
234 Posted 24/12/2015 at 18:40:43
Merry xmas to you and all the TWebbers from SA. Staying at the same hotel in Durban as the England Cricket team. Wonder if any of them are Blues...
235 Posted 24/12/2015 at 18:51:56
Swiss Ramble states Everton have at least two major loans: (1) a 25-year loan of £21 million with an high interest rate of nearly 8%; and (2) an annual loan of near 㿀 million secured on TV money with a stonking 8% interest rate.
236 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:32:12
Those who (used to?) hold the view that Bill never had any intention of selling now seem to be worried about the credibility of the interested buyer. Make you mind up! Or do you just change your minds with the wind?
The narrative that was prevalent, ie. Bill would never sell, has just disappeared. If those who professed to this theory were so confident of it to the extent of criticising those who had a different view, why aren't they still telling us that the deal won't happen? You know who you are and so do I, come on show us your view was legit not just deliberately antagonistic towards Bill.
237 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:40:13
However, I'm excited by this prospective takeover! If they want to improve us and then make some money on a sale, then so be it! As long as they improve us!
If they have a plan and a progressive model then it's a step up on the current regime!
238 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:44:59
I know he is only one of the stakeholders but just something to consider with all the optimism about this takeover. We need one but we need the right one.
239 Posted 24/12/2015 at 19:51:08
I too am excited by a potential new buyer. A sale to any new party is obviously a risk, let's hope that IF the deal is done it's the start of a positive new era for our great club.
240 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:08:32
He paid ٣million ish for his 27%. 27% of 𧶀 million is 㿢 million.
I thinks it's clear Bill will give a piggy back from London to the prospective buyers at that return
241 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:27:48
242 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:30:24
243 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:43:31
Are you suggesting he's only selling now because he's gravely ill, if so I think you should have the balls to say it. If not, I apologise in advance but ask what are you saying???
There will be shareholder protection in place I'm sure, in the event of the absolute worst, God forbid.
244 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:44:14
And how knows it may just be the turning point on the road to us becoming great again.
245 Posted 24/12/2015 at 20:58:06
246 Posted 24/12/2015 at 21:02:59
If you are saying you always knew he would sell, then congratulations. I could argue with you about "our chairman" all night, but it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, as we both well know.
It's Xmas Eve, a time of peace and goodwill to all men, so I hope you have a good one Andy. Merry Christmas!!
247 Posted 24/12/2015 at 21:23:51
We talk about billionaires running things. Yet, billionaires have bought into the EPL and failed. Chelsea and ManCity stay in the hunt because they're well-run.
I want our incumbents out for the same reasons been listed in here for years. I keep in mind, though, that they hire a managers and left it to him; Moyes especially, but here with Roberto. Few clubs do that; any sport, any country. Few do.
IF this deal goes thru, IF, the one thing I worry about is will the new owners get in the right guy(s) to move Everton up the Table.
248 Posted 24/12/2015 at 21:47:04
the feeling in the US is that Noell and Moores are both worth over a billion currently but the estimate of 0.5 billion was made in 2008 when the economy went south and Moores got an expensive divorce.
Noell is a Harvard Business school graduate who has done spectacularly well in business which doesnt guarantee his heart is in the right place but it does suggest he knows what he is doing and has the right contacts.
For me anyone can do a beter job than the current incumbents who have shown total apathy, incomptetence and lack of ambition since BK took over.
This lot will look to make money but thta's not a bad thing if they actually have a plan to move the club on.
For all people rap on about Bill being one of us he has taken the club back light years and has only been saved by the Rooney and Arteta money and the massive increase in TV revenues.
249 Posted 24/12/2015 at 23:00:34
250 Posted 24/12/2015 at 23:29:44
252 Posted 24/12/2015 at 23:54:40
253 Posted 24/12/2015 at 00:07:40
IMO even at 200 million (if that is the correct amount) This club can be brought and taken forward to better things.Onwards and upwards.
254 Posted 25/12/2015 at 01:57:39
256 Posted 25/12/2015 at 04:11:01
257 Posted 25/12/2015 at 06:24:30
If he is ill - and I believe he is - he would be very wise to sell now.
There is a universal truth about the human condition, and that is people die. If I owned Everton and knew my time was limited or could be, I'd sure as hell sell before I met my maker. Give me enough time to sell and set up a trust for my family with the proceeds - would save about half of the money going to the government through inheritance taxes.
At least in this country... Not sure how it works in England.
I see no reason whatsoever to not discuss this and do not, in any way, shape, or form, see it as inappropriate or bad form.
And no, I'm not intelligent enough to have considered this myself. A friend threw it out there. But it seems an awfully legitimate scenario to discuss.
It might be Christmas, but "Health" if personified, doesn't give a shit what day it is. "Health" is a fickle bastard of a person, and he / she doesn't look at a calendar.
258 Posted 25/12/2015 at 06:34:36
As far as the club is concerned, it should be very interesting.
259 Posted 25/12/2015 at 08:18:20
260 Posted 25/12/2015 at 09:06:18
What there is no doubt about is that Kenwright and his cohorts will do very well out of it.
Hope all on ToffeeWeb have a great Christmas and a happy, healthy New Year.
261 Posted 25/12/2015 at 10:28:48
262 Posted 25/12/2015 at 10:29:18
Also, while I am here, is 8% a high figure? A few years ago Banks' would not even look at Football finance and I wondered if the "appetite" of Bankers has changed? If not, then second line lenders will clearly charge higher rates. And, lastly for those who know, what rates of interest are other clubs, particularly peer group clubs charged, I.e what is reasonable for Everton?
263 Posted 25/12/2015 at 11:25:57
264 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:04:22
265 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:22:36
266 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:26:58
267 Posted 25/12/2015 at 12:42:59
268 Posted 25/12/2015 at 13:30:34
I would love for this to be true as we'd get rid of BK and bullshit Bobby in one swoop. There's no way business minded yanks are going to put up with his constant hyperbole while we fail to beat the likes of Norwich, Bournemouth, Newcastle and Leicester... in a row. I can easily see us being bottom half come Jan.
Would also like to know if the 200m is for the whole club (i.e. 100% of the shares) or just the 65% odd owned by the three directors. As a minority shareholder, would I be automatically pushed out or could I remain part owners? (Only have the share for sentimental reasons obviously.....its framed and hanging proudly in the living room....)
Interesting times anyway for all blues. Happy xmas from not so sunny Peru!
269 Posted 25/12/2015 at 14:10:07
Whatever intentions any new owners might have they will look for a return on their investment at least equal to what they might have gained by investing their £200m in an equally speculative enterprise. Let's say £16-20m per year. Any further investment, in players or ground, will need similar returns. Who do you think will ultimately pay this? The optimists will say that this will come from better merchandising and greater corporate sales. Do we really think that likely? The first step will be increases in season ticket prices. One of the questions in the recent survey emailed to season ticket holders asked if we had an unobstructed view and if we agreed with the proposition that the clearer your view the more you might pay.
The results of this survey will no doubt be made available to potential purchasers under due diligence.
270 Posted 25/12/2015 at 14:20:39
I doubt there is another Abramovitch or Sheik out there for us so these type of investors are probably as good as it is going to get for us.
But eh, if all you guys think it's ok for us to drift around for years fighting for a mid table position in the present stadium with our present hands on major shareholders then great.
I suppose you'd also hand back the 100 million you'd win on the Euromillions cos it might change your present lifestyle
271 Posted 25/12/2015 at 16:07:43
I recall Aston Villa being praised when the ownership allowed Lambert to buy young players and play them despite the inherent risks. Now that it turned sour, the owner is somehow trash and only interested in a profit because American investors only want their money? How many English or owners or oother nationalities have done similar things and failed? Slating an investor for being American is shortsighted, naive, and a little bit bigoted.
I can't wait for this deal to happen. I would have preferred the Sporting KC ownership to come in to provide a pipeline of additional American players to be loaned or sold to Everton in a reverse of the Man City-NYCFC set-up. My how that would get certain heads on TW steaming.
As for accusations of asset stripping by American ownership, wasn't that what BK and his current band have done? Is Everton in a better place asset-wise than it was before? Aside from TV money how have the current English chairman and his cronies done anything to improve the stadium, boosted retail/entertainment development in the area, or in general moved Everton forward in any real and appreciable manner?
How can any ownership group do worse? We sell players to fund other ones and the only reason we haven't this season is the TV money. I will have to get my "Everton, America's true football team, owned by Americans for Americans" banner if this comes to pass.
272 Posted 25/12/2015 at 19:48:58
273 Posted 25/12/2015 at 21:40:29
The question you put is 'what rate of Annual interest should a Company like Everton and its peer group expect to pay'? My answer is that I cant give a solid figure .I think that the type of company the club had to approach when the club found themselves being refused loans by mainstream banks would be able to charge what ever rate they wished to put forward and was acceptable to the clubs owners. The financial circumstance would dictate the rate.
274 Posted 25/12/2015 at 22:14:30
275 Posted 26/12/2015 at 01:03:57
'You can get this from the NHS, but it will take ages ... you can get it from the local authority, but that will cost money ...
I know it sounds weird, but the best provider of these services, is something called "Everton in the Community"!
I was bursting with pride! Will the Americans [presuming they do buy] understand why that sort of thing matters to us; and matters a lot!
276 Posted 26/12/2015 at 01:52:18
278 Posted 26/12/2015 at 04:27:54
279 Posted 26/12/2015 at 05:29:39
The board is guilty enough of other matters without adding unfounded accusations.
280 Posted 26/12/2015 at 06:15:19
I do wonder, though, how that squares with the calls for a hard nosed businessman? Would we be funding such schemes to that extent?
I feel like we have an identity crisis. What do we want to be? Community Club or business? I'm not sure I really know what I'd rather.
281 Posted 26/12/2015 at 06:57:14
A new ground will cost hundreds of millions, are Moores and co. the kind of gentleman to see such speculation as part of the deal?
282 Posted 26/12/2015 at 07:20:15
283 Posted 26/12/2015 at 08:09:30
However under leadership who have fewer links with the area I do wonder if there is any net cost how long it will be before costs will be minimised in the face of investors wanting returns in money rather than thanks.
284 Posted 26/12/2015 at 08:33:23
Unlike some, I don't trust BK and his merry band of men to do the best for EFC. They will make the best deal for themselves (like rs Moores did at anfailed) and head for the hills to count their pennies.
From what I've read about these two cowboys we could be getting another Hicks and Gillette and that could be the final nail in our coffin. I hope I'm wrong.
285 Posted 26/12/2015 at 09:31:47
Up to now, as far as I can tell, what comes in via Sky goes out in players wages and transfer fees.
So where is their profit going to come from?
CL? That might take a bit more investment. You can only up the season ticket price so far.
I think a severe dose of - 'Let's wait and see' is called for
286 Posted 26/12/2015 at 09:41:48
That's not to say they won't take the easy option of cutting costs but that's not necessarily a good thing.
Even so, a gamble on the TV rights increasing looks pretty sound. The additional revenue may well end up going on players and increased wage bills, but the capital growth in the club's value would still be there.
287 Posted 26/12/2015 at 10:17:50
If people are not happy with these types of consortium/groups are you happy and prepared to put up with the present mob.
Everyone is going to have issues and misgivings about anyone who takes over the Club. Unless we accept that these types of groups are as good as we are going to get this conversation will be carried on by our grandchildren
288 Posted 26/12/2015 at 12:06:34
Also, Ray and I exchanged a few words around the big loans, I wondered if you had any thoughts that you could add for us please??
289 Posted 26/12/2015 at 12:29:05
290 Posted 26/12/2015 at 12:29:35
291 Posted 26/12/2015 at 16:26:53
Let's face it, none of us really know what the real numbers are right now, neither the existing books nor the terms of the proposed new deal. So why speculate and make wild accusations complete with the added dose of vitriol that usually accompanies these posts?
292 Posted 26/12/2015 at 19:57:05
293 Posted 26/12/2015 at 20:52:08
294 Posted 26/12/2015 at 21:18:45
295 Posted 27/12/2015 at 11:14:49
296 Posted 27/12/2015 at 00:31:40
I think that only applies to publicly-quoted companies - as I've said somewhere in this long thread - and then only when someone buys at least 75% of the stock. The current board only own some 65%, anyway.
297 Posted 28/12/2015 at 00:46:25
I'm not sure people have to sell ther shares even in the case of someone buying at least 75% of the stock. What I do know is that the buyers have to offer the same price to the remaining shareholders. But, like I said, I also think this only applies to publicly-quoted companies.
298 Posted 28/12/2015 at 20:00:19
Still, an American may bring some commercial knowhow to our club for the first time, or if that fails we may attract a Jordanian sugar daddy. So we live in hope!
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