Reports: Everton preparing new deals for Barkley and Stones

by | 07/06/2016  126 Comments  [Jump to last]
Laurence Griffiths/Getty Images
Everton hope to prepare the ground for Ronald Koeman's impending arrival by securing Ross Barkley and John Stones on improved terms this month.

According to many of the national dailies, talks are planned with the young England duo as the club looks to keep hold of the nucleus of its squad while rival clubs continue to be mentioned as suitors during the transition from the Roberto Martinez era.

As a boyhood Evertonian, Barkley is regarded by most observers as the more likely of the pair to put pen to paper on an extended contract at Goodison but Stones, despite having been tempted by Chelsea's advances last summer, could also be persuaded to see how the Koeman regime shapes up.

Rumours of strong interest from Manchester City persist, however, with reports of a £40m bid in the offing and there has also been talk of renewed inquiries from Stamford Bridge for the 22-year-old.

The Mirror couch the Stones situation in more confrontational terms, however, suggesting that Everton will again dig their heels in and insist that the ex-Barnsley defender stay regardless of the level of interest in luring him away.  


Reader Comments (126)

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Kieran Kinsella
1 Posted 07/06/2016 at 22:57:04
Deal or no deal Stones can't go anywhere until someone puts an offer on the table. If and when that happens the new contract or not there are no guarantees he will stay.
Kieran Kinsella
2 Posted 07/06/2016 at 23:00:42
As for Barkley I don't see anyone offering what we think he's worth cause our valuation is skewed through sentiment and hope based on glimpses of quality. For example, could we replace him with a 30 million pound player who is the finished article we might hope he becomes? No.
Bob Cumiskey
3 Posted 07/06/2016 at 23:19:59
Keep both of them if possible please.
I think these 2 could thrive under some new direction from our new manager.

If they want to go then I would let them have their wish and move on.
However I believe we have a very determined man in place now who won't want to take no for an answer.

The next 12 weeks are going to be very interesting. COYB.

Peter Laing
4 Posted 07/06/2016 at 23:23:46
Stones I believe will be Manchester United bound. Mourinho will once again cone calling, Stones is apparently a Man Utd fan and I believe they will have no problem stumping up the circa £50 million to secure his services.

Ferdinand was acquired more than 10 years ago for a then British record for a defender. With age and potential future resale value Stones is a safe bet for any Club willing to pay the asking price.

Barkley stays, his development has stalled and the position that he plays is not a specialist one.

Anthony Dwyer
5 Posted 07/06/2016 at 23:24:33
Great teams are built by keeping there best players, Stones and Barkley are definitely in the bracket of Evertons best players.

The two mentioned players signing new deals, without any get out clauses would be a huge statement to the whole league.

Get them signed up, try and get Rom to do the same then start buying some quality to go with them.

David Pearl
6 Posted 07/06/2016 at 23:32:57
Forster would be a good first signing but considering the money Southampton tend to get for the most average of players I'm not looking forward to us getting stiffed for £25M+.

Same as last season really, we should be looking to keep our better younger players - and offload the obvious. I think our squad is very underrated in the media, we can surprise a lot of people this season with 2 or 3 class additions. Interesting weeks ahead.

Paul Mackie
7 Posted 07/06/2016 at 23:36:38
Stones would be an absolute idiot not to spend at least one season learning from Koeman.
Tony Draper
8 Posted 08/06/2016 at 00:13:01
Paul @7.
Yes mate, he absolutely would.

Furthermore, for him to join a manager with a level of distrust of young players akin to DM's aversion to silverware would take him backwards at a rate of knots.

But, as we have recently proven, money talks loud !

Charlie Lloyd
9 Posted 08/06/2016 at 00:13:53
I agree Paul @ 7 Stones should stay and try to gain some defensive knowledge if Koeman does arrive.

Barkley is a true enigma. Great on the local park on a kick about but put him in a real game he just doesn't seem to be able to consistently produce. Too many flaws to his game. Spatial awareness, decision making etc... I know he lost his way and confidence in a horrific season but I fear the poor traits are uncoachable. In that position you either see it like Silva or Ozil or you don't.

Barkley currently has 22 England caps by 22 years old. My bold prediction is he'll not make 50 and I doubt even 40 in total. I really hope I'm wrong but the next wave of young players will eclipse him.

As for the thread. A new deal this summer. I'd leave it a while see if we see some improvement.

I really hope I eat humble pie over this but it's my honest opinion of the enigma that Barkley is becoming.

El-ray Jackson
10 Posted 08/06/2016 at 00:33:28
To be honest I won't be too upset if they sold Barclay. He has delivered very little over the last two seasons. A short burst of pace and some neat touches every few games isn't good enough. He has put a lot of size on and looks very slow at the moment. I've been hearing about his potential ever since he broke into the team. He's going on to 23 and I'm still waiting for that potential to come into fruition. I'm afraid he lacks vision and alot of the time isn't aware of his surroundings, therefore, he fails deliver the end product. He also had a tendency not pass to a team mate who is in a better goal scoring position. Again, I believe this due to lack of awareness rather than selfishness.
Terry Murphy
11 Posted 08/06/2016 at 00:51:29
The one that made me laugh was Romelu saying that he will do Mr Moshiri the courtesy of listening to him. Oh to be a fly on the wall at that meeting.

Mr Moshiri appears to have made his money through negotiations with those soft-touches in the Russian oil markets; I'm sure he'll be shitting himself at having to deal with a twenty-three year old boy and his loud-mouthed father.
Oscar Huglin
12 Posted 08/06/2016 at 00:51:31
Such an important summer ahead.
John Daley
13 Posted 08/06/2016 at 01:32:37
"Barkley currently has 22 England caps by 22 years old. My bold prediction is he'll not make 50 and I doubt even 40 in total."

22 caps in under three years. At least another ten years to go in his career (touch wood).

I'll take that bet right now. Any amount you like.

Joe Clitherow
14 Posted 08/06/2016 at 01:39:40
Agree John. Great talent is our Ross, but possibly destroyed over the last three years by the incompetent clown we entrusted that talent to at a crucial time.

Every player went backwards or was hampered under Martinez and his useless crew. Hopefully something gets salvaged because there is plenty of raw material there.

Brian Wilkinson
15 Posted 08/06/2016 at 02:19:22
Joe@14, throw in the odd boo boy as well, everytime Barkley tried something that did not come off, his confidence has been shot to bits, we should be encouraging Barkley, and hope Our new manager brings the best out of him.
Jackie Barry
16 Posted 08/06/2016 at 03:08:54
Love Barkley but wont deny I have been crtical of him this season. This is his make or break season surely if he stays.
Paul Andrews
17 Posted 08/06/2016 at 03:09:51
Barkley will sign, Stones may or may not. If he stays he should be supported by all fans in his development. He will need to improve on this seasons performances though. A player of the ability of Koeman will see his deficiencies straight away.

Hopefully Koeman can improve his defensive capability. His biggest problem is the lack of awareness of runs being made off him. If anyone can improve him the new manager can.
Anto Byrne
19 Posted 08/06/2016 at 04:24:49
Barkley is an England player and at 22 still has another 8-10 yrs playing at the top. His form was down and confidence shot playing that awful pedestrian football under Martinez. We now have players coming thru to put pressure on him in that midfield, I reckon a midfield with Barkley Davies Dowell Gerri D and a free roaming McCarthy has a lot of potential.

I would like to see John Stones pushed up into a Koemanesque role as a defensive midfielder as he has all the attributes to play that role.

Defensively we need a goalkeeper of the highest order and a tall commanding centre-half to deal with crosses.

I wonder if he can coax Lukaku into one more season?

So Mr Koeman its over to you, its going to be a tough job at Goodison Park but it looks like the new owner only wants the best and is not going to compromise his ownership by accepting anything less than the best.

Paul Ward
20 Posted 08/06/2016 at 05:43:24
(Paul 7) "Stones would be an absolute idiot not to spend at least one season learning from Koeman." I agree but feel the media has influenced him to greater riches elsewhere. Plus I suspect he never got over the harassment our own supporters gave him when he asked for a transfer.

In Barkley's case (and I do hope I am wrong) I can't see him getting a game in a Koeman team. Despite some blaming Martinez and the crowd, Ross is an inconsistent slacker.

Phil Walling
21 Posted 08/06/2016 at 06:49:51
We must keep our better young players. Just like SOUTHAMPTON always do!
Tony Hill
22 Posted 08/06/2016 at 06:56:50
No worries at all about Barkley. Watch him flourish. Stones more difficult but why indeed would you not want to learn from one of the very best in your position who has a track record of turning decent players into top defenders? Imagine what he could do with Stones.
Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 08/06/2016 at 07:10:49
Think we will know soon enough, how Ross Barkley, is going to end up, once Koeman arrives. I expect him to thrive, once we return to playing with proper width, and being a more direct team.

If Stones, stays, I will be delighted. Agree with Paul, that he should stay and learn, off one of football's ultimate central defenders. A man who could play but also really defend.

Liam Reilly
24 Posted 08/06/2016 at 07:18:41
No doubt there'll be whispers a plenty in their ears in their current training camp.

Must secure Barkley first for me; as above Stones is a United supporter and as much as I'd like to keep him, I fear in his head, he's already gone.

Barkley hasn't had the right support since he broke into the first team: Moyes didn't trust him, Woy doesn't trust him and Martinez trusted him so much, he didn't bother coaching him.

Kieran Fitzgerald
25 Posted 08/06/2016 at 07:20:33
A make or break season for Barkley is right. think that he does still have a lot to prove, especially to a new manager.

We have gotten Koeman in at the right time, before the start of preseason. This means that he will have a proper chance and the proper time to see what the whole squad is like. If he is the strict approach manager he is made out to be, then Barkley will need to show a lot from the start of preseason to show that he has the attitude as a professional footballer to go with his talent. Like with Koeman, Barkley will have the proper time and the proper chance to prove himself.

With Stones, neither Chelsea nor Man Utd showed themselves last season to be anything special. With neither team having CL football to offer him next season, the only thing Stones will gain for now by moving is a wage increase. His reputation still has the hangover attached of being involved in a Martinez team and he has shown that he is far from being the perfect defender. A season under Koeman might be what his reputation and skill set requires. Staying with Everton for another season and then moving with an improved reputation to a club offering CL football would be the sensible option. It would also be a better bargaining chip when negotiating a contract.

Jakub Kollar
26 Posted 08/06/2016 at 07:21:11
Many people here are wishing to offload Lukaku, Barkley and Stones. The whole axis of young players, all of them best on their positions and in early twenties.

That's not the way I would like to see Everton in coming years.

Lewis Barclay
27 Posted 08/06/2016 at 07:46:15
I hope that Barkley and Stones have a good experience at the Euros and get to come back to a positive Goodison Park where the fans have forgotten their mistakes of last season and can encourage them to be a part of a silverware winning squad.

Both of these players have, in my opinion, the ability to be at the top of their game but they need some great coaching and support from players coaches and the fans. Without that we may as well look to move them on!

Raymond Fox
28 Posted 08/06/2016 at 07:55:46
Martinez 'didn't coach him' how the hell do you know Liam!
Martinez didn't do this, he didn't do that, all suspicion, unless you went to team meetings or training sessions we don't know.

I would sell Lukaku, Stones and Barkley and make a clean start.
Lukaku and Stones want to leave, there's little point in keeping dissatisfied players.
Barkley's a different case, I tend to believe what Charlie 9 says about him, mid field has to be up there with the most important position in a team and Barkley has been playing like a luxury the team cant afford.

Now I'm well aware that's a minority view probably on all 3 players but I believe Stones and Barkley are too unreliable of a risk at this stage if we really want to push for top 4 this season.

Mike Dixon
29 Posted 08/06/2016 at 07:58:40
All well and good but all Managers have their favourites. Perhaps Koeman has preconceived ideas about the two. He may well arrive having watched them last year and think the –50-60M he might get in the market would be better spent elsewhere.
Paul Tran
30 Posted 08/06/2016 at 08:09:25
If Stones moves, it will be for the same reason Koeman is here; the belief that there's more potential at pastures new.

Unlike our other 'wantaway' players, there are offers on the table for Stones, which tells me he's the priority. Sit him down with Moshiri and Koeman, sell the new dream. He will learn plenty from Big Ron, methinks. If he doesn't buy it, ship him out to the highest bidder.

I want him to stay, but only if his heart and soul are with us right now.

Colin Glassar
31 Posted 08/06/2016 at 08:10:03
Stones and Ross will stay, I'm not so sure about Lukaku as I suspect the club will be happy to accept a huge offer for motormouth and move on.
Steve Bingham
32 Posted 08/06/2016 at 08:14:22
Not too bothered if stones stays but I would very much like to see Ross improve and hopefully begin to enjoy his football again with Mr Koeman in charge.
Roger Helm
33 Posted 08/06/2016 at 08:35:15
An interesting move before our new manager has his feet under the desk. Presumably he had some say in this?

Maynard Hanna
34 Posted 08/06/2016 at 08:37:00
There is most definitely a new regime in charge now at our club. I wish that I could have been a fly on the wall during his discussions with RK's agent, then Southampton FC and finally RK himself. Mr Moshiri kept his negotiations pretty much in-house. The media knew just about as much as we did, during recent days.

Moshiri wanted RK. He sold the club to him and I believe included in those talks, it also became clear to RK, Moshiri's ruthless ambition for our club to become great again. The ground move will have been spoken of (who knows where Moshiri is on that one? and what he has perhaps already secured) and of course the money available for transfers and I am confident that players such as both Stones and Barkley will have been mentioned.

Moshiri will want both to stay, and I believe that he will talk to both and that he will see that they stay. They have not angered anyone connected to the club. Neither has stepped out of line and said anything disrespectful about Everton unlike our belgian wonder-striker-penalty expert. Moshiri will get rid of him.

One final thing I would pay 30 million +, for a top class keeper without any hesitancy what so ever. Forster, Hart or who ever it is. More than anything right now Everton needs a Goalkeeper and we need one of the very best. Its that simple. Two weeks ago I never thought that Moshiri would get his man, but it would seem that he has, so lets give the man a lot of credit, and lets back him 100%.

I believe things will be done differently now and it would seem that the press and the media are beginning to realise that also. Exciting times ahead. Lets look forward and embrace the future.
Craig Walker
35 Posted 08/06/2016 at 08:59:31
I desperately want Barkley to do well but I can't stand another season of frustration from him. I think there are better players out there for the money that we could get for him. The same with Stones. I don't want another season where my heart is in my mouth at every set-piece that's heading into our box.
Tony Abrahams
36 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:03:55
Craig 35, that's why a top keeper, should be one of our top priorities.
Ian Burns
37 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:05:59
Stones is pure class and we should do all we can to keep him. I know he has his critics etc (ball into row Z and all of that) but he is already an excellent player and would become an excellent defender under Koeman.

Ross just needs direction and his confidence back and I still believe he will become the player we all want him to be.

The one thing I would say on a comment above - please not Forster - he is not as good as people make out. He is indecisive although I accept he is a good shot stopper when the ball is close to him. I will get hammered for this but in truth I prefer Robles, he made some progress last year and with a good defence in front of him, he could improve to be a genuine number 1.

Jon Withey
38 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:08:25
Havent united just spent a bucket load on another young defender ?
Mike Allison
39 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:15:49
A lot of people suddenly seem to be accepting the narrative that Ross had a poor season last season. He didn't. He scored and created goals, far more than he ever had before and showed a big improvement. His decision making got much better and he clearly developed as a player over the first half to two thirds of the season. The whole team and everyone individually tailed off badly in the final third, and that seems to be all a lot of people can remember, but there was an awful lot of good, exciting stuff for us to build on with a better manager. Martinez's problem was failing to get results, not failing completely at everything.

We have an excellent squad of promising young players and it's really important that we keep all of them. I find it really frustrating that fans want rid of a player as soon as he shows any kind of flaw, that's not how you build a winning team. These fans seem to think that there are perfect, ready made replacements out there desperate to come to Everton and commit for the next ten years playing flawless football. There aren't, you support the team you've got, otherwise what's the point?

Ray Griffin
40 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:17:46
Happy to see Barkley stay but wouldn't lose any sleep over Stones going. He's an excellent player, just not an excellent defender. Guilty of following the ball instead of the man several times last season, allowing too many soft goals.

Maybe Mr.Koeman can find a younger version of himself somewhere!

Craig Walker
41 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:23:50
Tony @36. Completely agree. We do need a top class goalkeeper and we have done for years. We've had two class goalkeepers in my time of supporting Everton: Southall and Martyn. Stones doesn't get tight enough to the attacker though and when he's one-on-one against any player with pace means he ends up sliding in. The Manchester City semi-final away leg was a case in point and he was lucky not to concede a penalty in the league game there.
Colin Glassar
42 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:24:22
Bailly (Villarreal) for £30m, Jon. It's going to be interesting to see which of the two Manchester prima donnas spend the most this summer. City look to have signed aubameyang for £55m.
Tony Hill
43 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:32:04
Reports, probably inaccurate, of Michael Keane and Lewis Dunk being targeted and also van Dijk of course. Mirror suggests we're resigned to losing Stones (of course they would) but we'll see.

I have every confidence that Koeman will either be persuasive and keep our higher profile players or find excellent replacements.

Eivind Nyhus
44 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:47:01
If we get paid, I wouldnt cry if we sold either of them. Tbh, Id rather sell Barkley or Stones than Lukaku, no matter how much stupidity he talks in Belgium. We have won games because of Rom, even during our past horrid seasons. Barkley is way too inconsistant and has a tendency to loose the ball in dangerous positions, or waste big chances trying to walse through a gang of people insted of passing the ball to Blues in better positions - and this happens a lot! We've lost bags of points soley because of Stones(and RMs bad coaching). According to RM, Stones was the best thing in English football, yet even he had to bench him after 6months of catastrophic defending. He might become what we all wish he already was, but is it worth the gamble? I was happy when we told Chelski to fuck off during last summers transfers, but come december and I felt like an asshole for supporting us keeping such a bad decision maker.
Rom might be a loud mouthed, lazy bastard, but he still got 25goals this season. A motivated Rom, with a smarter playmaker around him, and a good defence behind him, and I'm sure his attitude would change a bit. He annoys me a lot, but he is our most effective player when he wants to be, and tbh, if I was him, id be pissed off too. He must feel as though the defence and former manager all stabbed him in the back every time we conceded a soft goal
Denis Richardson
45 Posted 08/06/2016 at 09:47:34
Doesnt look like Manu will be coming in after Stones as they've just splashed out 30m on a 22 year old CB. Just leaves the blue half of mancland.

Barkley is certainly an enigma. Was at the cup semi and sat quite close to the pitch. Could not believe how much bigger he was compared to the past. Seems to be carrying at least an extra stone or two of muscle which can't do his stamina and speed any good. There is still a decent player in there somewhere and I think he got something like 9 goals and 8 assists last season (haven't looked it up sorry), which are still very decent numbers for a midfielder. I think he just needs some decent coaching to get better. I'm still hopefull he'll come good.

As for Stones, personally I'd cash out and move on. No defender in the world is worth 40m+ imo and I think it's easier to sign a decent CB than a decent striker or AM so spend the cash on the latter. Leicester showed last season how to defend as a team - you don't need supposedly brilliant individuals, you need a unit that works hard as a unit and is well organised.

I also hope Koeman gives someone else the captains armband - Jags just simply doesnt cut it as a skipper.

Sam Hoare
46 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:13:31
If they want to stay then great, keep em but they both need to do better than they managed last season. Can only blame your age for so long as it now time to deliver on their potential cut out the mistakes and play consistently at a high level. Stones in particular needs to work on his marking and Barkley on his decision making and defensive work.

If one or both of them want to go, then go. I only want players who are proud to be here and fight hard for the cause. Stones should be £45m+ and Barkley not alot less. Neither of them should be that hard to replace with that money in terms of their contribution to the team over the last 2 seasons.

Tony Hill
47 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:18:59
Denis (45), I think that's a very important point about the captaincy and I entirely agree. Who do you give it to though? Coleman, maybe McCarthy or perhaps Barry but I can't see Gareth being played consistently next season?
Mike Green
48 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:35:28
With Koeman coming in and the apparent intent from the new owners I think they'd be crackers to move on.

Money wont buy the sort of development Koeman should be able to offer Stones and I think he'd keep things simple enough for Ross to get back to basics.

Hopefully Koeman has a clear vision of the player Ross can be and can help him realise it. As far as Stones is concerned I would buy a world class, no nonsense centre half (with Jags as back up for that position) and let Stones and Funes Mori compete for the other berth.

I think Ross will stay, no problem, partly due to his affinity to the club. I think Stones will have been gone had it not been for this appointment but will ultimately stay now.

Which leaves Lukaku. Show him the vision, give him a few home truths, if he doesn't buy into it and isn't prepared to get his head down let the bidding war begin.

Which to be honest applies to the whole squad - I'm pretty sure Koeman will be looking to build a team again and deflate the hype that the press and our former manager has pumped into these lads over the past three years. They need discipline and direction.

Brian Harrison
49 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:36:25
Now that we have secured Koeman I am confident that he will make the right decisions over Stones and Barkley. I think Lukaku has already decided he has gone, and whatever we get for him will be added to the £100 million that Moshiri has already promised Koeman.
He will know which players he wants but I am sure all selling clubs will know what budget Koeman has, so no doubt we will have to pay inflated prices on whoever we bring in.
Paul Tran
50 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:42:34
I'd like someone to be brought in as captain to give the team some bite, direction and nous.

Out of the existing players, I'd give it to Barry like a shot.

Colin Malone
51 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:47:57
You will see a different Ross Barkley under Ronald Koeman. A Ross Barkley with more direct approach, other players moving off the ball for Ross. A fitter Ross Barkley, a better defence set up behind Ross. The diamond will sparkle next season. COYBB.
Damian Wilde
52 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:50:08
Not too bothered if either go, haven't really done much. Couldn't see us getting very much for Ross though, 10-15 maybe?

Sell McCarthy too. If Koeman plays two defensive midfielders I won't be happy. I also hope Koemam actually pkays a left middielder, bizarre how that Spanish clown didn't.

Peter Morris
53 Posted 08/06/2016 at 10:55:01
I think Ross is a low risk exit. He's a blue, and in any event, was pants last season, so unless he shines in the Euros(and he may not even kick a ball), I think his stock has fallen somewhat.
The Stones situation is more complex. Will he feel ,with a new owner, and a new manager, that he can achieve his ambitions, at least until his mid 20's, at Everton? A lot will depend on his attitude, because the new owner may feel he can pay for a good replacement for less than Stones would command.Manure have just paid 30m for a new centre half to play alongside Smalling I suspect, so is that them out of the equation? If our hand is forced, I think Man City would be a more likely home than Chelsea. I think there are some still festering sores there from last year, and I don't expect Moshiri will take well to being pushed around, but Chelsea just can't help themselves. No class, you see.
Lukaku's gone, so we will desperately need some firepower before the season starts, and the signs from Niasse , ability and character wise, are not encouraging.
Mike Allison
54 Posted 08/06/2016 at 11:04:06
I don't think there's anyone in the squad worth changing the captaincy for. Funes Mori has potential, he's certainly passionate, but I agree with Paul Tran, it's worth buying a captain this summer. It could be symbolic of a new era, but it depends if a suitable person is available.
Liam Reilly
55 Posted 08/06/2016 at 11:26:16
Keep your hair on Raymond # 28.

My comment was somewhat in jest; but the point is that RM didn't get the best out of him either. If he's to play as an attacking midfielder then 'my opinion' is that he needs to be more disciplined and be far better without the ball.

James Stewart
56 Posted 08/06/2016 at 11:42:45
Now is not the time any player will want to leave Everton, exciting times.

If Lukaku wants to go to Chelsea, or Stones to City then let them. Better replacements will be lining up for once.

Daniel A Johnson
57 Posted 08/06/2016 at 11:54:28
Given the money we will get for Stones and Barkley I don't think they will be missed.

As for stones my lasting memory of him was sulking around Anfield......ball at his feet not under any pressure and he inexplicably finds a Liverpool player they score and he goes off crying with stomach ache.

The player we will miss is the one who scores the goals Lukaku. That will be the most difficult replacement to get right.

Denis Richardson
58 Posted 08/06/2016 at 12:25:39
Tony, not sure we've got captain material in the squad right now. All the players are too nice or in Besics case too immature or not even guaranteed a place in the side.

Tough one but I agree we could do with buying in a captain, preferably at CB.

Raymond Fox
60 Posted 08/06/2016 at 12:57:35
I agree with the comments that Lukaku will be our biggest loss if he goes.
His stock is still high while Stones and Barkley have surely dropped.
I've not seen any talk of teams wanting to sign Barkley lately so I don't think we would get a great price now, that is unless him and Stones get to play and shine in the Euro.

We really don't know Moshiri's spending plans, you never know, if the are ambitious enough all three could be persuaded to stay.

I doubt it though I think Lukaku and Stones will be off.

Michael Hughes
(South Wales)

61 Posted 08/06/2016 at 13:32:13
I know we all see things differently, but I thought Ross was starting to look the business during the early part of last season. What happened after that I'm not sure, but by the end of the season he looked totally disillusioned, lost, as if he didn't understand what was expected of him. Also, as many have stated, he had bulked up (looked more like a rugby player) which drastically affected his stamina and ability.

Personally I would love to see Barkley stay as I see potential for him to be a top player – if he can regain his confidence and get in shape – hopefully the new fitness coach will sort this out.

Kim Vivian
62 Posted 08/06/2016 at 13:50:41
We really should be trying our damndest to keep John Stones and give him the right mentoring at our club. I, like many, see a tremendous potential talent there but if he isn't able to buck up under RK's guidance then maybe the anti brigade are right. It would piss me right off, however, if we watched him develop to his reputed potential somewhere else.

It's not like we need to sell him for the revenue now is it? The long term financial gain is potentially far more than the 㿔 m-㿞m we'd get now (I base that on Bailly at 㿊m)

God only knows what was going on under the surface last year and I think the full extent of RM's damage to Everton is not fully known or realised by us – tactics, fitness, moral – fucking everything really except PR bullshit.

It would be really nice to see what we could do if we could manage to keep hold of these lads because last season painted a damn bleak backdrop. Even gobby Rom if he could respond correctly to RK's size 10 planted firmly up his arse.

Just fucking imagine if it all came off...

John Grills
63 Posted 08/06/2016 at 14:14:49
Raymond (60) There is no doubt that Lukaku is a very good striker, however, he has wanted out for a few years and his stock is high now – talk of a valuation of around 㿨M, at that price it is difficult to argue against selling him.

Sad fact of life now is that the media and agents can turn players heads. He is a lad who dreams of titles and stardom and even though he is young and could be argued needs more experience before going to an 'elite' club (i hate that term!), he is likely to believe the hype that he is too good for Everton.

Besides, what if he performs badly for Belgium in the Euros? if we hold on he may be worth a lot less very soon.

Bobby Thomas
64 Posted 08/06/2016 at 14:38:03
The spine of the side needs sorting out.

We need a top class keeper. We need a centre half that can head it. A Vidic or Terry type that goes, "That's mine." when a cross comes in.

I also think we badly need some legs in midfield, or some variety, a player with 8 - 10 goals a season in them. And no I don't mean Ross Barkley. The Dutch lad at Newcastle went through my head before we were linked with him but I think we may be shopping in a higher bracket now. Someone who can get on the ball but also has the legs get about, make runs into the box and get beyond the striker in general play. We have nobody like that.

Lukaku will need replacing and we also needs a back up striker as Niasse is going to be a waste of space and a £10 million loss.

Also, a combination midfielder to fill the narrow left mid slot to replace Pienaar is long overdue.

Finally, Ross doesn't need a new deal, he is quite safe.

Alan J Thompson
65 Posted 08/06/2016 at 15:12:48
What players have we got that could be considered not as good as Stones, Barkley and Lukaku? Why wouldn't we want to sell them first? Ohh, yeah, nobody might want them.
Terry Underwood
66 Posted 08/06/2016 at 15:44:05
For me, Stones is a must keep, he has been learning. The last couple of England games, he has hoofed it when necessary, without losing his skill at bringing the ball out if he can. Barclay has not been as good as we hoped, there are any number of midfielders just as good
Raymond Fox
67 Posted 08/06/2016 at 15:54:27
I think we are writing Niasse off much to soon.
He didn't play in the best circumstances, lets see what Koeman makes of him.

For all the flack that Martinez gets I don't think his more expensive buys have disappointed.

Robin Cannon
68 Posted 08/06/2016 at 16:08:52
@Bobby (64) - If you want a midfielder with 8 or 10 goals in them, why don't you mean Ross Barkley? He bagged 12 for us last season.
Jay Harris
69 Posted 08/06/2016 at 16:26:50
I think the main problem we have is a lack of mental strength.

All the top players have it in abundance.

We do not seem to have the willpower to stay the course even over 90 minutes.

Whether the tactics and fitness had a lot to do with it I don't know but when you're talking about 40-50m standard of player it is a given that they are a winner.

Gareth Barry has it but unfortunately his legs are going and he is giving too many free kicks away.

Bobby #64 what makes you say Barkley is safe. He turned down a contract renewal a few months ago. He may be sick of the boo boys and feels he is better plying his trade elsewhere especially when the "Engerland" pricks get into his ears.

Peter Gorman
70 Posted 08/06/2016 at 17:22:25
Wish I got a pay rise every time I failed hard at my job.
James Marshall
71 Posted 08/06/2016 at 18:27:32
Given that Utd have just spent £30m on Eric Bailly, a centre half from Villareal, do they need Stones as well?
Jack Convery
72 Posted 08/06/2016 at 18:29:46
After a season with Koeman, Stones will be the first name on the England team sheet and captain of EFC - the boy will become a man.

As for Barclay its now or never. I don't expect him to play too much for England at the Euros, however if we buy the quality we can now afford and Barclay doesn't benefit from having better players around him, creating space, making the runs etc then next season may be his last in a blue shirt. The talent is in their he just needs to display it and I really hope he does.

Would love Butland to come to Goodison and we should try and get Mahrez from Leicester - just what Lukaku needs and change his mind into staying put.

James Marshall
73 Posted 08/06/2016 at 18:39:32
Barkley - his name is Ross Barkley. He has nothing to do with the high street bank. Loads of people call him Ross Barclay, and it drives me a little bit nuts.

As you were.

Christy Ring
74 Posted 08/06/2016 at 19:04:27
If we hope to go to the next level under Koeman, why would we sell Stones and Barkley?. If City, Utd, and Chelsea are interested, does that not tell us we have two fabulous players, who will thrive under a top manager, and a new fitness coach.
When we played well last season,( which wasn't very often), Barkley was instrumental in all our good work, some of you have tunnel vision, and he's a true blue as well.
Colin Glassar
75 Posted 08/06/2016 at 19:10:32
No way Koeman will want to lose Ross or JS, Rom I'm not too sure about. Why would any manager want to lose players of this quality?

Koeman will know our squads strengths and weaknesses and he will have a good idea how he wants to get the best out of them. His fitness trainer is supposed to be a bit of a RSM and that's just what our lads need. They won't know what's hit them.

William Cartwright
76 Posted 08/06/2016 at 19:17:35
Sorry to disappoint all doubters but Ross, Rom and JS will be playing for Everton next season. No doubt. The supporting rejuvenated cast of the usual suspects Geri, Kevin, Leighton, Jags, James, Seamus, Besic et al, will be supplemented with high end key acquisitions such as a top notch goalie, defender, and play-maker. All aided and abetted by the influx of youth and the exodus of the ageing deadwood.

Barry will be given a key executive role role as a conduit of experience onto the pitch, available when necessary.

A new support striker may be sourced but not until Niasse and Tarashaj have been given the opportunity in pre-season to see what they can do, and if deemed necessary then before the transfer window shuts.

There will also be a closer link up between the Finch Farm with Unsy's role being appreciated more and more.

A surprise package (there always is one) could be the emergence of one of Galloway, Funes Mori, Garbutt or McAleney breaking into the first team on a regular basis, Mori being the most likely.
The key to all the above wa the right manager to be appointed. That is why Koeman was selected. Also to rich pool of talent, if managed correctly can win anywhere at any time, and that is what has attracted Koemen, as well as the money and I don't begrudge him that at all.

NSNO COYB

Colin Glassar
77 Posted 08/06/2016 at 19:30:11
Amen William. I'm not sure about Rom though. Koeman has a reputation for being tough with his want away players eg Wanyama, Mane (he drops them) so I can see him calling Rom's bluff and telling him, "if we get what we think you are worth (£65m) you can go, if not you stay but can train with the kids until you learn to keep your trap shut and start respecting this club".

I think Big Rom is in for a shock when he gets back to Goodison. I think he will want to stay once he sees the direction the club is going

Darren Hind
78 Posted 08/06/2016 at 19:31:20
Barks will find more consistency when he redevelops his body to suit his sport.

Stones will go right to the top with or without Koeman.

William Cartwright
79 Posted 08/06/2016 at 19:50:19
Absolutely spot on Colin regarding the Koeman / Rom face off. However I think Rom has had a bit of a raw deal from the media. He has let hid dad and his manager make him look a prat, and and he has not helped his cause, but in reality if he feels the right vibes when the pre-season gets going, the he would rather win the league with Everton than anyone else.

And yes I am serious regarding winning the league. if you look at the quality and depth of out squad, together with select additions, it has championship quality all the way through it. Martinez was very close to achieving what he set out to do with the quality playing staff, but he just could not deal with all the attendant crap called realities of life, such as fitness, injury prone training methods, corner kicks, discipline etc. All the stuff that good managers take in their stride.

Jack Cross
80 Posted 08/06/2016 at 20:50:39
I maybe wrong but who as ever made an offer for Ross Barkley, I can't recall anyone?

I think Ross, is vastly overated. Get shut if any takers.

As for Stones, sell him to the highest bidder. With the money we get from his sale, we could could buy a fully acomplished defender. Without going in to the 100mil.

As for Rom, we must keep him. He's a top notch striker. As his lazy moments but we've got to persuade him to stay. Even if it means keeping him to his contract.

Maybe if Rom, stays another season and the team plays to it's full potential, with a few additions and he sees how the manager performs, Rom might see his future lies with Everton.

I must admit I wasn't a fan of Rom's, when he first arrived. I would have liked Bony. And I think we should still go in for him. But Rom's, a real must keep for me. And Bony, would be a great addition also.

Mick Davies
81 Posted 08/06/2016 at 20:57:02
Damian @ 52, that's a good shout; get rid of McCarthy, age 25 with over 200 PL appearances under his belt, established international, one of our toughest players, defends well and can score goals (when allowed) - many have even mooted his captaincy potential.
Why don't we have a good old clearout while we're at it with Davies, Galloway, Pennington, Coleman et al making room for all these top class players queuing up to come to Goodison? I'm sure Koeman would love to have a rebuilding job with a turnover of at least 25 players
Tony Abrahams
82 Posted 08/06/2016 at 21:09:22
Agree Mick. I think Stones, will benefit most off Koeman, if he stays, but McCarthy, will also be getting away from "Roberto keep the ball" after all these years, and it's possible we might also see big improvements in his game.

Merson said Everton, have got as good as chance as any team next season, who knows?

Joe O'Brien
83 Posted 08/06/2016 at 21:09:57
And I presume Damian you were taking the piss with the 10-15mil? You'll look back on that silly comment this time next year when we see the real Ross under a proper manager and think 'what was I thinking there'
Mick Davies
84 Posted 08/06/2016 at 21:51:06
Joe @ 83, well said. £15m for a 22 year old established England international???
Don Alexander
85 Posted 08/06/2016 at 22:18:31
I honestly believe a lot of us have inadvertently bought into the mind-set of us being a less than "top" club, and after well over thirty years of the boardroom proving it, who can blame us fans?

That said, I hope AND expect Mr Moshiri will show a very different approach to what we've long had to endure from the boardroom. I hope and expect RK to be required by Mr Moshiri to get us into the CL within three years max, on pain of receiving his P45. Providing RK is provided with meaningful spends I expect that to be realistic even before the current squad is assessed.

........Ah yes, the current squad.

I hope that enough of them now reveal an inner steel that has faded (and in some cases never yet appeared) in the last three years of decline. If not I expect them to be quickly moved on because I hope and expect the manager and owner to make demands of them all as adults, not as the phenomenal whatever-they-ares some of them, exemplified by Lukaku, now seem to consider themselves to be. In a dressing room it only takes one bad apple for team cohesion to perish.

I trust RK tells them that if they don't leave their over-inflated egos in the glove box of their top notch cars EVERY day they're at Finch Farm they need to use the space there for an AA route-finder to another club instead, immediately.

Jim Lloyd
86 Posted 08/06/2016 at 22:31:56
I think you're right Don. That's the way it's going to be. Koeman will be well paid but results will be expected. Well, no. they will be demanded. And I agree that the whole squad will have to showe whether they are winners, or posers.

I look at leicester and in their team photo after winning the league, they all seemd to be "Winners" Sounds a bit daft, seeing as they had won; but they just oozed a spirit of, "you'll have to fight every one of us to beat us"

So Mr Moshiri will, I think, be demanding everyone at Everton, have one aim in mind. A relentless determination to be the best and to do their best and I think Koeman is just the man to implement that style on the playing staff.

Tony Doran
87 Posted 08/06/2016 at 22:40:36
RK should get them both and Lukaku in the office, tell them he believes they all have great quality and hope last year was just a dip and stutter in thier careers. Lukaku done well last year though. Let them know he will give them full support in the coming season to prove themselves worthy of a new contract and make them understand that this is a club where the table has turned and is now very ambitious.

If they can prove to be worthy they will rewarded accordingly in due time, if not it could be the door.
Damian Wilde
88 Posted 08/06/2016 at 23:13:47
Raymond:

"For all the flack that Martinez gets I don't think his more expensive buys have disappointed."

Niasse, McCarthy to name just two. Martinez record of buying players was poor; McGeady, Alcaraz, Kone et al. Stop praising the Spanish clown!

William, win the league? Have you been hanging around with red mates? Seriously???? Others have mentioned we may win the league - deluded nonsense

Mick, what does McCarthy do apart from pass it sideways? How many assists & goals? He's poor. Do people honestly think he should start?

As for Ross - he's been dreadful beyond belief for eight months. A passenger. Yes he has talent. Who would buy him then and for how much? If he doesn't get his lazy arse together he's the next Rodwell. People may be after Tom and JS, can't see any takers for Ross.

Bobby Thomas
89 Posted 08/06/2016 at 23:46:11
Rob #68

Because Ross Barkley spent virtually all season playing off Lukaku. Not in midfield. The mix of midfielders is way off. We have no options and neither Ossie or Pienaar have been replaced. Or Arteta. Or Fellaini, who we got mad money for considering his limitations.

We need at least 2 midfielders in, ball playing types with a goal that are happy playing all across mid.

Bobby Thomas
90 Posted 08/06/2016 at 23:58:58
Jay #64

I say Ross is safe as I don't think there will be any interest in him from the Champions League bunch at the inflated fee we would ask and English players seem to get placed on them. Plus, he's not worth it.

And theres no way he is Mourinho 's type.

Raymond Fox
91 Posted 08/06/2016 at 00:13:43
Damian, it may be fashionable to call Martinez a clown, but he got us to two cup semi finals, the Utd one we could have won if Lukaku had been on song.
Oh, the shame of it two 11th places in the league! Not the end of the world was it.

The betting has us to finish 9th in the league this season even with Koeman in charge and Moshiri's money, they also had Southampton in front of us before Koeman became our manager.

Niasse has not been given a real chance yet, McCarthy can hardly be called a poor signing, what about Lukaku he's doubled in value,
Mori good enough to be a Argentine regular, Lennon, Barry, Cleverley, Galloway hardly poor signings!

Bobby Thomas
92 Posted 09/06/2016 at 00:40:12
#91 Raymond

You can dress it up as many ways as you like. Martinez sides were/are fundamentally disorganised and lack commonly accepted, requisite traits to get results in this division. It quite possibly would have been the end of the world if he had been allowed to continue his philosophy into a 4th season.

I could see from winter 2014 that deep shit beckoned as things were happening on the pitch that lead only one way. He isn't even a manager imo. He's a coach or youth development man. He'd be a good one.

Dan Davies
93 Posted 09/06/2016 at 01:07:42
Damian@88, deluded nonsense. Another negative quote. Yet again. Are you RS in disguise?
Don Alexander
94 Posted 09/06/2016 at 01:09:25
Raymond Fox, it is bordering insulting of you, with genuine respect, to deride those of us who, in your words, deem it only "fashionable" to merely consider Martinez "a clown".

I cannot believe there is a club in the Premiership who would now re-employ the "The Incredible One" as a manager.

In our league he is toast, courtesy of his explicit ineptitude.

Maybe he'll surface in League 1 or, maybe after his ginormous BK inspired pay-off, he'll just settle for being the sort of media-friendly "man-in-the-know" dickhead that Warnock has long been. After all he's already a millionaire a-propos of nothing for us. Martinez was always a "pants" appointment by a fundamentally impotent "Green" "owner".

And, beyond us lot, who today gives a shit for our history?

Raymond I, and many others on this site, do not consider semi-final defeats acceptable. That is why I say, again with genuine respect, that you and many other fans, have inadvertently accepted our supposed status as also-rans in the Premier League.

After decades long inertia I expect Mr Moshiri to galvanise things big-time.

I'm 61. I don't expect (but I do hope) to be alive when we win the CL for the very first time, but it's a tribute to me and countless others that after decades watching other clubs, and in our case our neighbours, win the European Cup over and over again, I STILL bleed blue.

Success in that competition is now our aim. Mr Moshiri, I hope, shares that ambition.

I am fully with him, and I do not look forward to lambasting him in the future if events go pear-shaped in that regard, but his stated plans on a new ground/manager/player (or three/four) lead me to hope that this guy has the means of making us a genuine top contender in Europe.

...............And yes, I'd even accept him making a ginormous wedge providing he doesn't extort it all from fans like me/you.

Dan Davies
95 Posted 09/06/2016 at 01:09:55
Damian I'm wondering if you have red mates? I bet you do.
Mick Davies
96 Posted 09/06/2016 at 02:43:38
Damian, I don't know if you actually watch Everton, but those of us who do, appreciate the silent way McCarthy goes about his business, looking after the pedestrian Barry and firefighting at the back after our disorganised defence gives way under any pressure.
I agree, he's not been anywhere near the form of his first season, but who has? And if he's told to stay back, how does he add to the few assists and 5 goals he has?
I really believe there's a shade of Bally in there, with his perpetual motion and the aggression; whether he will become that box to box player we need will probably become apparent this coming season, when he will be off the RM leash, and not forced to keep returning when injured. As for a bad buy? At 22 and an established international, with an FA cup medal, I'd say, for his sell on value alone . . NO
David Barks
97 Posted 09/06/2016 at 06:00:35
Mick,

That's a bit of a BS thing to say, "those of us do". Actually a hell of a lot of people who have watched and posted on here all season have pointed out that McCarthy doesn't offer much. And in fact, Barry was the one covering for him, not the other way around.

Damian Wilde
99 Posted 09/06/2016 at 10:20:49
Raymond (91);

"Damian, it may be fashionable to call Martinez a clown, but he got us to two cup semi finals, the Utd one we could have won if Lukaku had been on song.
Oh, the shame of it two 11th places in the league! Not the end of the world was it."

The football was not only ineffective, but highly boring. Terrible manager, end of.

"Niasse has not been given a real chance yet, McCarthy can hardly be called a poor signing, what about Lukaku he's doubled in value,
Mori good enough to be a Argentine regular, Lennon, Barry, Cleverley, Galloway hardly poor signings!"

Niasse is rubbish. Lennon & Cleverley - average. The others, very good. What about Kone et al?

Dan (93) & (95):

"Damian@88, deluded nonsense. Another negative quote. Yet again. Are you RS in disguise?"

So you actually think we'll win the league? I have plenty of positive posts thank you, but as things have been rubbish for two years, there have naturally been more negative (mainly about Martinez). Am I a RS in disguise? Are you a dickhead in disguise? No, because you are one naturally. And you're probably a telly clapper.

"Damian I'm wondering if you have red mates? I bet you do."

Yes I do, (gold star!!) DD (sounds like a woman's name), as I have friends (something which you prob. don't have).

Mick (96):

"Damian, I don't know if you actually watch Everton, but those of us who do..."

There's always one isn't there. ST holder most of my life (even though I have lived away a lot), often go to away games (including many in Europe). Is that enough for you? Apologoes, but I don't get to pre-season friendlies, maybe you make 100% of games, Mick? Don't be insulting just because I don't like your darling McCarthy.

"Really believe there's a shade of Bally in there, with his perpetual motion and the aggression."

Speechless. Maybe someone else can help me with the above...

Box to box midfielder? He looks anything but. His only hope is that RM mismanaged him and he may improve. I see as well how you dress him up (FA Cup Winner), but leave out other things e.g. he was part of a relegated side. And it isn't difficult to get in the Ireland side is it? The England side is pants and he would not get near that in a million years. Does anyone know his assist and goal stats for Everton?

Cheers David, seems like 'those of us who do' you 'watch Everton'.

Eivind Nyhus
100 Posted 09/06/2016 at 10:45:22
I like McCarthy a lot, but like most of our team, he hasnt performed to the best of his abilities these last two seasons.
Dan Davies
101 Posted 09/06/2016 at 13:51:07
Now now Damian no need to start acting like a cornered rat. My RS question was said in jest but you obviously didn't take it that way. Hit a nerve did I?

Personally I'm not going to reduce myself to schoolboy insults and jibes unlike you a ( self confessed ) Clinical Psychologist. Very mature.

You time and again have called people on TW out as being deluded. Is that your personal or professional opinion?

As for DD I wonder what Dixie Dean would have thought about having a woman's name? By the way you can't take the piss out of anyones name pal.

Damian Wilde is that honestly your real name?

Paul Andrews
102 Posted 09/06/2016 at 14:17:31
Jon Withey,

Bailey is at 23 years old of a similar age to Stones. He is a top class defender already, give him a season to adjust to the pace of the Premier League and you will see what a player this lad will be.

That is one of the hordes of top class clubs supposedly chasing John Stones out of the picture. Shortly followed by Barca and Real (if they were ever in the picture, of course).

I would be amazed if an Italian manager would sign John, given he likes his defenders in the style of Bonucci and Chiellini (out-and-out defenders, masters of the defensive arts) that is the Chelsea manager ruled out.

It may be that only one club is in for John in the summer. Not the queue around the block some would have us believe. Time will tell.

Damian Wilde
104 Posted 09/06/2016 at 14:23:30
Dan,

Calling a passionate and loyal Evertonian a 'red shite' is bang out of order. But you then try and hide behind it as banter, cowardly.

I love my name. Named after a saint. And the surname is great! It did Oscar well! Were you named after desperate Dan?

Dan Davies
105 Posted 09/06/2016 at 14:50:38
Nothing cowardly going on my side of things Damian, Desperate Dan ay, comedian as well now are you? Ha ha very funny.

Any season ticket holders out there in the world of ToffeeWebbers who go to away games and when we are lucky enough to be in Europe, them too, actually know this ' Damian Wilde '?

If somebody could step forward and vouch for this joker so I could at least take him seriously it would be appreciated. As somebody with such a personality amongst the fans must be well known, surely?

Damian Wilde
106 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:03:58
Funnily enough Dani, I don't know any of the few hundred ToffeeWebbers. But if I'm not known by a few hundred out of 40,000 then yeah, I could see how that'd be strange.

To be fair I don't think the others are bothered to be quite honest. Let's cut out your vacuous waffle and get back to discussing Everton.

Will we win the league next year? No chance.

Damian Wilde
107 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:11:28
Darren Gibson has just signed a two year extension. Surprised. Good player, but injury prone.
Shane Corcoran
108 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:15:55
Damian, I just read that. Bizarre to say the least. Koeman must have okayed (is that a word) it.

Sean Patton
109 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:19:39
Just seen that myself and its an absolute joke how the hell can players like Davies break through with Gibson around contributing nothing.
Matt Lavery
110 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:22:44
Friggin 'el lads. Calm down and all that! This is supposed to be an Everton fans hub, not a verbal bar brawl! Now WUG (wireless hug) and make up and lets get back to all things blue!
Tony Hill
111 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:32:16
We don't know the terms of the extension to Gibson's contract which will likely have an escape/pro rata salary clause, or some such, in the event of prolonged injury. He's one of the best passers we have in my opinion and could still be a useful squad man.
Bobby Thomas
112 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:33:50
Mick #96

Congratulations, comparing James McCarthy to Alan Ball is one of the funniest comments I've read on here in a while.

Also, McCarthy isn't 22. He's 26 in November. I keenly await a sudden blitzkrieg of box to box running, assists and 15 league goals, from a defensive midfield holding player with no vision.

Mike Allison
113 Posted 09/06/2016 at 15:40:49
Damian things haven't been "rubbish for two years". They've been annoyingly inconsistent and ultimately not good enough, and crucially there was no sign of learning and improving, particularly in terms of converting talent into results. That's very different from a simplistic "rubbish for two years".

I've said this on many threads now, but it seems I have to keep repeating it as so many people seem to have forgotten; we played some unbelievably good football last season, better than anything else I saw in the league. The problem was that we did it for 20 mins at a time and failed to win the games we did it in.

Damian Wilde
114 Posted 09/06/2016 at 16:30:13
Yes fellas, I was surprised at Gibson's extension and as you say Shane, Koeman (you'd expect) would have sanctioned it).

He is a good player, but I don't think he's worth the money. At best, why not a year?

Spot on Bobby, McCarthy has no vision. He can pick out a three yard sideways pass though.

Mike, for the past two seasons, I have been very 'bored' going to the match and I think it was 'rubbish' with that Spanish clown whose limit is League 1. Why are you defending him? He's gone. Onwards and upwards, exciting times ahead (possibly).

Mike Allison
115 Posted 09/06/2016 at 16:44:24
I'm not defending him, I'm criticising him in what I think is a more accurate and reasonable way.

Do you not remember the way we played against Crystal Palace? We were like a better Barcelona, it was magnificent, Kone was good, but we didn't score. We then went 1-0 down from a simple set piece header. We then got a nice equaliser. In a way that game encapsulates Martinez, plenty of good, but hardly any of it where it really matters.

You seem determined to talk as if the whole season was the same as the last 3-4 months. It wasn't.

Damian Wilde
116 Posted 09/06/2016 at 17:24:44
So your example of us being like Barcelona is an away draw at Crystal Palace? You starting to sound like Bobby brown shoes. Three-four months? Come on Mije, it was woeful for two years. Norlt remember Christmas 2014? Two third round cup exits as well. Jeez.

I don't understand why you're discussing it? The Martinez stuff has been very much done. It's all Koeman & Moshiri now

Dan Davies
117 Posted 09/06/2016 at 17:40:32
Anybody? Two and a half hrs and nobody Damian, you legend. Anyways.....
Mike Allison
118 Posted 09/06/2016 at 17:48:09
It was at home, clearly you don't remember. You're also spectacularly missing the point.

Never mind.

Jim Burns
119 Posted 09/06/2016 at 18:17:18
Mike - I get it and agree. Nothing in life is black and white, or as good and bad - unless its in hindsight. There were some memorable performances alright, and some memorable phases of play within games - we just didn't put the cement between the bricks, so after the third or fourth course it toppled.


John Daley
120 Posted 09/06/2016 at 18:18:40
"Are you a dickhead in disguise? No, because you are one naturally"

Eh?

Damian, I'd love you to make an attempt at explaining what that 'insult' is even supposed to mean.

Although, to be fair, any answer other than "I was doing my best Derek Zoolander impression" is definitely going to be dismissed as making zero fucking sense.

Paul Tran
121 Posted 09/06/2016 at 18:30:24
Mike, you're talking articulate sense while pissing in the wind. It'll be a few years before some people are able to rationally discuss Martinez!
Jim Burns
122 Posted 09/06/2016 at 18:32:57
Just posted @119 because I thought Mike's point made sense. I then scrolled back a few - Jesus! I had to go back to the header to check that we really were discussing the potential news about keeping Ross and Stonesy ( in my view we pull out all the stops ).

My point is - how did we get to this ? Calm down lads - I feel its getting personal.

James Hughes
123 Posted 09/06/2016 at 18:34:08
Some serious handbags going on here and all about nothing
Eugene Ruane
124 Posted 09/06/2016 at 18:43:18
'Shite!..... Shite!.... Alright but overpriced.... Shite!.... Boss!.... Shite.... Alright... Absolute shite!... Shite!...

(Damian becomes an art critic and takes us on a tour of renaissance paintings in The Louvre).

Damian Wilde
125 Posted 09/06/2016 at 18:48:39
Dan, I suspect you're even boring yourself now.

John, he called me a 'red shite' so it was justified.

Mike, I prob. don't. I was so bored at matches, I barely remember anything. The man would have relegated us. But thankfully he's gone.

Koeman...


Jackie Barry
126 Posted 09/06/2016 at 19:06:51
I remember being bored to death with Moyes football too. Exciting times ahead, lets hope so!
Jim Burns
127 Posted 09/06/2016 at 19:08:31

Reasoned but impassioned debate - nil; playground foot stamping - three.

Time to blow for full time I think.

Brent Stephens
128 Posted 09/06/2016 at 19:13:46
Jim, can't we have extra time? It's a knockout competition.
Damian Wilde
129 Posted 09/06/2016 at 19:42:59
Eugene, I don't like to think too much out of work, but why can't I say 'Martinez's football was boring'? I could go into a big explanation about sideways passing, no left midfielder, but it's been done several times over.

But thanks for your usual helpful contribution.

Gibson? Good player, but injury prone. I was surprised he was given a contract.

Bobby Thomas
130 Posted 09/06/2016 at 21:48:03
To be fair I thought we were pretty good against Palace at home and deserved the 3 points. Did Lukaku hit the woodwork twice?

However we were undone by a trademark weakness from a corner and if I remember rightly could quite easily have lost as Palace were looking very dangerous on the break. That was another feature of Martinez sides, way to easy to break on. The easiest side to counter in the division.

People who were wanking themselves daft after the Sunderland 6 -2 home game basically just don't understand the game. We were awful and that brand of kamikaze football will get you nowhere. It was exactly the same as the Wolfsburg match at home. A result that masked deep flaws.

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