Blues leave it late to save a point

I would also have had Robles in goal after Stekelenburg's recent clangers.

http://www.vipbox.mobi/football/430443/1/huachipato-vs-Everton-live-stream-online.html

Never before have I felt as little as I do for an EFC team, as the majority of our players play and have the demeanour of not giving a shit... the commitment levels of our squad as a whole are embarrassing.

Wonder what the excuse will be this week?

Ronald, you can talk the Charlie 'big potatoes' guff in the press only if you're performing on the field. You're not.

Too many times this season he's got it dreadfully wrong in the first half and he's not learning.

And you didn't get it right. You said we'd get beat. Idiot.

I'd start by letting him get stuck right in to this current crop. So what if he loses some of them. I couldn't care less about this squad of players. Many don't have the mentality or ability to play for Everton FC.

Barkley is so infuriating, takes so many touches of the ball, kills all momentum. No football brain or even heart?! A tin man.

Jags is too fat & finished, Baines a non-entity these days and can't even take a corner. McCarthy not up to it, they always miss Granddad Barry, we should have spent the Bolasie money on a schemer / #10 like Sigurdsson as we have enough inconsistent wingers as it is.

Deulofeu looked bright when he came on, made things happen. Gueye simply better than all this & good on Coleman for having the chops to rescue a complete disaster.

Think that's everything. Get scouting Europe, Walshie!

Relieved to earn an (unmerited) late, late home draw against the league's bottom side?

Yippee ...

Instead of doing interviews he should have been doing double training sessions with our youngsters bringing them up to Premier League standard.

It is the lack of desire to bring the young players through which will ultimately fail Everton when clubs ask a king's ransom for ordinary players. The attitude of manager matches the attitude of the majority of the players and that is "can't be bothered". Utterly disgraceful.

I hope he keeps his big gob shut this week.

I'm tired of him already.

Swansea deserved the victory — we deserved Jack-Shit.

Have the defenders ever had an easier day being the first man at corners?

Not one decent corner.

Jags is a liability now; he needs some bench time. Funes Mori can't be any worse than that. Major clear out come January.

Play the kids if we have to. This shit cannot be allowed to continue.

Swansea are obviously fighting because of where they are. Everton are confidence players – they can't seem to take a defeat and get over it. The international duties also stops the momentum.

Passionless, couldn't give a shit, woeful mercenaries.

Out of this current group only Gueye, Coleman, Williams and maybe a couple of others are worth keeping. As for Jags, he is fast becoming this seasons Tim Howard, he's done at this level.

I dread Everton games at the moment, that's how bad it's become for me.

The old guard need to go asap as they obviously don't like Koeman at all. Get Kone in from Sunderland and send Jags in opposite direction. After his display today and every time I see him on TV I'd get Sigurdsson from Swansea as our No 10.

Walsh should keep an eye on Fer as he was excellent today. Bring Galloway back from WBA. Once we are safe Koeman can give the kids game time. Right now the squad atmosphere appears toxic to me so keep the kids away from it. This week they should concentrate on crossing and corners until their feet bleed.

If we had the players who can score that we've been lacking for the last couple of years, it would have been a landslide.

Jags should not be playing at all. Legs have gone. He makes mistake after mistake and still gets selected. Mason Holgate MUST be promoted to a starting place.

This seasons Captain Pip... and remember how bad that was. The words 'senior player' should be banned. If we have to play a 5man defence it should be Funes Mori and not Jags slotted in.

Southampton, Man Utd., Arsenal and the fuckin Red Shite coming up – I expect no points with that team, they are one of the worst teams I have seen in 40 something years of watching Everton.

To say I am disgusted with the attitude of this bunch of useless fuckers would be an understatement..Come on, Ron, one striker at home to Swansea. What the fuck are you thinking of??? Show some ambition, for Christ's fake fella.

The worrying thing is there are no signs of any improvement coming until we have a massive clear-out. That's not happening in January, so let's just hope there is the odd flash of excitement this season, cos the immediate future is generally looking fucking bleak.

Crossing was abysmal. Davies not a look in, should have been Davies instead of Valencia.

Unfortunately, we seem to have got a manager with the PR skills of Gordon Lee, the tactical intelligence of Walter Smith and the coaching abilities of Martinez Season 3.

It's going to be a tight race to the door between Koeman and Mourinho this year.

In every game we have either been saved, or managed to scrape a win, due only to a flash of inspiration, or flukey good fortune from one particular player. We have not pressed, played consistently as a team, or looked like we even have a plan for 90 minutes.

Not once so far – with a third of the season gone – have we imposed ourselves on any team we have played.

We are currently the easiest team to play against in the entire division: slow out of the blocks, thoroughly predictable tactics, and players who leave their teammates to just run with the ball without supporting them, taking up good positions, or even having the foresight to move around.

Predictable. Abject. Hit-and-hope. Incoherent from start to finish. Lucky to get away with it. Rubbish.

Hands up anyone who was surprised by yet another abject performance today...

I think the fact that it was defender that got us back into the game says it all. I felt like some of our attacking players we afraid to take responsibility and all too often went for a safe pass.

We missed Barry today. His years are catching up with him but he's the only defensive minded midfielder that can thread an unexpected ball through the middle.

We were very predictable constantly going for crosses and Bolasie's deliveries were very hit and miss to put it kindly. Swansea were set up to nullify us and were unlucky not to go away with 3 points.

We need the likes of Strootman, Depay and a quality striker, not sure about the fella from Napoli. We need an out-and-out centre forward, not another striker come winger like Mirallas.

Good luck with that one, Ron, because our squad is no better than Swansea's and they're rock bottom, the outlook is chilling!

We are in the shit big time.

Mark Lawrenson said on Radio 5 that Walcott (for Arsenal) was able to play football but had no understanding of it, and thus hadn't improved. Our play reminded me of his comment. This is their profession and many of them don't seem to have a grasp of how to play as a team.

The corners were poor and our crossing in general was utter shite.

His team is like him, all mouth, characterless and overweight. He is the gloom hanging over Goodison made human and the only sense he makes is the drivel he talks before games to bring down expectations because he knows we are shite-

He needs to go in the much needed clear-out of deadwood.

We need a manager who will work with youth not one who will buy second rate foreigners who won't give a stuff for the club.

Why does Ron continue to ignore our promising young players? Okay, they can't be all blooded at once but Holgate and Davies look ready to me and they will go stale if he continues to ignore them.

Personally I would prefer to watch some of the youngsters try to make it than a bunch of has-beens and never-have-beens who don't have the passion or guts to fight for our club.

There is a lack of urgency throughout the team and we need new faces to install it. Why Holgate does not start is beyond me. Same for Davies. We have players who do not fear being booted out of the side. It is time they did. They are poor and worse than that, shameless.

Compared to Cahill he has far more ability but will never ever be as effective. Timmy could finish and knew how to be effective and make a nuisance of himself.

Answer: They are all donkeys. Scandalous insipid performance, all that mouthing of Koeman lad and the words that count, to your team clearly failed you.

The crux is Koeman is forcing players into a system of play they are not good enough to execute. If he cannot adapt until he gets the players he wants then it is his failing. None of our attacking players, Bolaise excepted, are capable of sustaining a pressing game. So change it!!!!

Up top, it's shuffling the same tired deck. You perm any of them, but it's still the same inconsistent answer. You'd expect Mirallas etc to be shown the door over the next 12 months.

Following them has to be McCarthy. Gueye is twice the player, and James's crab like tendencies is no replacement for Gareth Barry.

But then again, we suck trying to play through the middle, so who knows. We're a club searching for a philosophy.

Totally dispirited.

Too many players letting the team down. The same players let down Martinez and Moyes.

Get rid.

It's going to take time to build a team with a strong solid spine which is needed. People can't expect Koeman to work wonders this season. A top 8 finish would be a very good season for us to get back on track before we can then have another summer to invest and improve the squad.

Well we got the new manager and after a decent 'take off', we are again plummeting to earth. But, at least, he's famed for telling it like it is... so we might be in line to hear him say these 'stars' are just little sparklers and he'll have to get some real fireworks if we want to get this lot off the ground.

And lastly his his final execution and overall decision making were far superior than anything that Barkley has demonstrated over the past two/three seasons.

So this "Compared to Cahill, he has far more ability" completely mystifies me.

Judge him in his own way. Shit and overpaid.

In added time, we had to witness Bolasie's crazy shot, and the plain daft tackle/foul by Mirallas. And how many corners can a team drop into the hands of the goalkeeper?

I have been pleading for patience and optimism. I still am. But I've had shingles all week, and it's been a barrel of laughs compared to watching that rubbish this afternoon.

Week after week it seems to get worse. There is no improvement whats so ever that I can see. I think we should leave the January window well alone. Because who is going to want to join a team as bad as ours. As someone said above their like a bunch of strangers.

We'll finish maybe 10th, have a really good look at what we have and clear the dross out, at the end of season. And their are several not good enough.

All I can see in the January window is panic buys. It's far too soon to make a call on Koeman. I just think he thought he inherited a far better squad. But in the summer lets hope he is given the funds, to put his team together and then in the second season we can really judge Koeman.

The players need to look at themselves. But I think were seeing the true them – a bunch of very average players.

I didn't think any lobbed header would beat Cleverley's last year at Newcastle but thankfully Seamus's (make him captain) did.

We need to break the bank for Virgil van Djiik or someone of his ilk as said above Jag's is on the wane Williams looks the more solid!

I'm sorry but I've said it before a couple of season's ago and I'll say it again Barkley is not and never will be a number 10! He is invisible in that position and carries absolutely zero threat! For me, he should model his game on Lampard spraying balls wide switching play then arriving late!

The lack of passing ability in the whole team really sticks out for me we are so poor in possession; there is no quick passing and understanding between the player's there is only Baines and Gueye who look comfortable on the ball!

On a final point, why does it take us 45 minutes to get into the game?? Today was a re-run of games last year under Martinez we started slow the opposition went ahead and we laboured to score a goal! Worrying to say the least!!

Koeman really has got to do more with what he has got!

Two aged center halves who are okay in the six-yard box doing blocks, headers and tackles but are a liability when they run or face any pace or skill.

An inconsistent right-back and a left-back who is old and doesn't seem to have had a clearly defined role since Pienaar left.

Two hatchet men midfielders who can break up but not create plays.

A midfielder who seems a bit dim and slow witted.

Wife men who just aren't that good. We've all had days where we look like superstars cause we get lucky but good players have more good days than bad.

A striker who is decent but has a terrible first touch. The first half cross he allowed to canon of his thigh into the crowd was embarrassing. Imagine Cruyff or Messi getting that ball. They'd control and score not swing a leg out and hope for the best.

We've a manager who is a bit of an unknown quantity. He's had some real highs and lows. He moves clubs so much it's tough to know if he's actually good or if he cashes in his chips before he gets found out.

Overall we are disjointed, lack cohesion, pace and skill. We aren't very good.

We don't have anything like the quality to compete and changing managers isn't going to change that position. We actually aren't very good. There wasn't much difference from the performance today than under Martinez and, unless we strengthen, we are mid-table at best. Drop all the points, as we could, over December and we will be in the mix towards the bottom.

I hope he's not just another average cheque book coach. We have a good enough squad to be much better than this.

It's not Koemans fault. He has inherited the dross. He could play any formation you like, 3-4-3, 4-4-2, etc, etc. He could even field 16 against eleven and still not get the required result with this lot.

He had a falling out with the fans for saying it like it is. He can't say it like it is that the whole team is shit for fear of offending players in mass, or causing a mutiny... Until this team is purged of every so-called potential star player, we will be swallowing hard every match day!

We don't have anything like the quality to compete.

I disagree; almost all of these players are internationals, even World Cup players, and a lot of them finished 5th only 3 years ago with our record points haul.

It's not that the individual players don't possess the quality, they need rebuilding into a team.

I suppose everyone will be putting forward their shopping list for January but for what? We don't have any kind of system that says this is how we can improve...

What's changed? Slow sideways passes across the back four, little or no movement up front... is theere a difference from last season?

Another home game with two holding midfield players against a bottom three side... no, not for me. Not only is there no light at the end of the tunnel – there's no tunnel!

We actually have a better squad this season as we only lost Stones.

If anyone thinks that Chelsea is our last spanking then, in my view, they are in for a shock. I cannot stand the RS but they could tank us based not just on today's half-arsed performance but several others this season. The energy level, passion, commitment, competitive edge, anger is missing game after game.

It is not only ability but desire and I cannot see it in this team. I cannot see the Dave Hickson "I would die for Everton".

I don't think he helps matters by referring to us as 'Everton' rather than 'we' but this may be a language/cultural issue. We need to see passion from him. We want to see that he loves Everton almost as much as we do.

A last- minute winner against the redshite in the derby in a few weeks with Koeman doing a Mourinhoesque slide pitchside at Goodison would stir our joint passion once more and kickstart what is, at best, a lacklustre first third of the season.

Jags looks like his days are numbered. Cleverley too, Mirallas and Deulofeu massively disappointing...

All-in-all, a big clear-out needed. We Need 5 new players in January.

As for the match... it's not worth talking about. I would just be repeating myself about how poor we are.

Sadly, the past two years are showing on the pitch. Dig deep Mr chairman. It's in your hands.

No, for me the team can't be arsed; something stinks. A total lack of effort. If players think they're being up to be replaced, it can go one way or another: they dig in and earn their place of think "Bollocks what's the point?"

Feels like it's the latter at the moment.

No pattern of play/style at all. Before Norwich we looked half decent. Koeman cocked and since we have been utter dross.

Okay there aint much there (so many poor players), but Koeman has to do more. Fella is a joke.

Baines & Jags – finished. Barkley – average at best (please don't tell me he's going to be a great). Deulofeu – poor. They're pretty much all crap. Bolasie & Lukaku were a joke today.

Face it — we're shite. Fuming.

Oh well, I'm off to enjoy my Saturday night. Feck off, Everton.

I think a lot of Everton fans just go the match as a chore now, hence why not many people want to sing.

My personal belief is that Koeman won't change anything, he failed to bring in a top quality keeper, failed to bring in a right back, left back, attacking midfielder or at least one striker.

Lets not pretend he inherited all these problems. Five of those who saw this game out were his signings. He also has alternatives to the out of form oldies, but he doesn't have the guts to play youngsters unless he has no other option.

This is not knee-jerk, it is based on what I have heard and what I have seen. He doesn't have what it takes to fire up a team.

In recent weeks we have been humbled by Burnley, humped by Bournemouth, Held by two of the favourites for relegation and humiliated by Chelsea.

This really has a groundhog day feel to it, we have a manager who is hopelessly out of his depth and all I can hear is "Give him time... I`m sure he will get it right". Well I`m certain he wont.

Mark my words; Give "Honest Ronnie" time and he will find himself reliving his the nightmare he endured at Valencia.

Just do one, Ron, Ron... just do one, Ron

No creation in midfield and, if Lukaku gets injured, who's going to score???

If we don't get reinforcements in January, we will do well to finish 11th!

Everton have a distinguished history to dignify, whilst prior teams may not have had the talent or resources, there was a compete level.

If Koeman doesn't find a solution quickly, December will unravel and those 'targets' he wants will drift away. What will Koeman do then? IMO... walk.

Everton 0 Coventry City 0.

This dreary match was played around the Christmas of 1983. Do you remember? The Everton faithful were screaming for the dismissal of the manager. The swell of frustration had been building up for some time and he had to go. Yes, I was one of those who backed the measure though not vociferously.

However, the Board stuck by their managerial choice. Oh, by the way, in case you may have failed to recall, the manager's name, it was Howard Kendall! Just look what happened over the next few years.

We definitely need a clear-out in the next number of windows, because we have too many losers in that team. I think the fans would respond to a team that had a fighting spirit, a never-say-die attitude. Sadly, what we get to watch is a bunch of losers.

I have seen so many false dawns that I no longer giving a shit about my team anymore. We were far from convincing in the first few games of the season but at least got some results. Since losing to Norwich in the League Cup, our form is equivalent to Sunderland's!

I thought new managers gave a club a buzz and high, well where is the personality in Koeman shining through??? Mourinho has already shown that he is finished, Guardiola is adjusting to the Premier League and Klopp has given the red half a real lift on and off the pitch while we get worse!

Time for me to stop following a passionless team and get on a gardening course to occupy my weekends!

Today reminded me of the awful teams in the late fifties, before Carey and Bobby Collins. They were woeful. My 7-year-old grandson is trying to be an Evertonian but days like today make it difficult, a crap view from the back of the Lower Bullens, poor atmosphere and an atrociously poor game.

We had four wingers on the field today. Bolasie is poor as he cannot cross, Lennon was simply off the pace and cannot cross, Mirallas doesn't even try to cross and Deulofeu beats his man beautifully, but cannot ever find a man in a blue shirt.

Every corner Baines took was caught without any pressure by the Swansea keeper. Barkley stood in midfield waiting for someone to make a run, they never did. So he passed sideways or backwards.

Is Koeman really any different to Martinez in that his team, like Martinez's team, passes very well in their own half and across the pitch, but hasn't a clue how to penetrate a packed defence. I felt my walking football team would have held Everton today.

Yes, some results and performances have not been anywhere near good enough this season but they are in a very large part a direct result of two seasons of utter mess that Koeman inherited.

How he can be expected to have turned it round that quickly is beyond me. Judge him when he has had more time to make it his side With more of his signings.

I will not attempt to defend what was served up today, nor will I try to defend the team selection. Holgate and Davies are better than those who shamed the shirt today.

However, I believe that Koeman is giving a chance to the established players and it would be wrong if he did not. It now seems to me that they have had their chance and would hope that the coach has seen enough. I expect changes and I hope that new blood will receive the same tolerance and patience that the old guard have. For now, I am prepared to accept that Koeman is still seeking the right formula. I am confident he will succeed but I think it is now time to see something positive.

Anyway, Darren, you know as well as me he is going nowhere so save yourself some anguish and keep your fingers crossed.

Those performances have been spineless. Martinez's influence does not extend that far. Implying Koeman's message is less influential than Roberto's. That is nonsense. Both the players and by extension the manager have been awful to date this season. Sack him? No. But he, the straight-talking Koeman, merits an equally blunt assessment.

Not good enough, and by some margin too.

How can he make a judgement on Niasse after one training session yet still pick the captain who is god damn awful week after week?

Oh and we tied the game by playing hard for 94 minutes which is something we never saw last season. This would lead one to think that we are being trained well.

In Lukaku we have just one goalscorer – stop him and you stop Everton. Good teams get their goals from all over the pitch. Moyes and Martinez left us with so many one-dimensional players. It is going to be a construction job for a while guys but we will get there.

Even today if we played exactly the same way but popped a couple of goals the tone of this thread would be quite different. I thought Barkley was really good as was Coleman, Gana, Baines, Deulofeu and Williams.

And it's Koeman's fault? Do me a favour.

Change the manager tomorrow and you still have Mirallas, Barkley, Lennon, Cleverley, Kone, Niasse and more. And you still have 10 games to get through before you can change anything. Jags, Baines & Barry will get older and will need to feature. McCarthy, Deulofeu & Funes Mori will still be there.

Who signed these players? Koeman has to do his best with this collection of dross and he needs all the support we can give him.

Underachieving, my arse. Many of these have been letting us down for a number of seasons; age and injury has diminished a few others and it's about time we got real and saw the truth.

I went this afternoon, and came away with the view that the cupboard is pretty bare. Koeman has tried pretty well the whole squad in many permutations. He's got them fitter and has managed to shore up a porous defence to some degree.

But what I saw today left me dispirited because a lot of this lot are so far gone they can't come back. Probably don't want to.

This manager needs all the support he can get.

I've seen more movement in those "living statue" street artists – I was tempted to toss them a coin today.

I am more pissed off tonight than I was after Chelsea, a team that put in a brilliant performance, as opposed to a workmanlike Swansea that a decent Everton should have put to bed well before the fortuitous leveller from Coleman.

We are going to get our pants well and truly pulled down against the Red Shite and the rest in December unless there is some sort of changing room epiphany. Jam tomorrow is an Everton perennial perspective and, to be honest, I can't be doing with being lectured on what, as a supporter for some 50 years, I should and shouldn't think.

Patience is over-rated at this point in our Everton journey where significant funds are available, and a manager who is paid ٤m per year cannot find a way to improvement his lot, despite already having bought four first-team starters, and spent hours on a training field.

So those impatient people aren't going anywhere, they will demand better from a team, board and manager who are patently not giving anything near value for the coin they are earning.

Stop excusing the inexcusable.

It's clear to see a fair few of these players just simply aren't interested. What exactly is McCarthy's position and what is he meant do? He just ran around like a headless chicken, offers nothing whatsoever. As for Jagielka this guy has been done for quite some time. He should not have been in the starting line-up today. Add Lennon and Barkley to the dross.

The buildup from the back to midfield is ever so slow, the midfield is pedestrian, no-one really is willing to put a foot in and fight for any 50/50 balls with the exception of Gana who was excellent; the rest of that midfield can fuck right off. There simply is no fight, urgency or tempo in this side.

Lukaku seems little interested and again today didn't absolutely move one bit, he may as well have been sitting with the fans. Thoroughly disappointing against an extremely poor side.

Name them...

This is not tennis, snooker, golf or darts, it's a team game and he is not a team player in anyway shape or form – it's all about 'me' with him.

I know some will argue vehemently but I believe the club and, more importantly, the team will be far better off when him, Mirallas and Deulofeu are shown the door.

100% mate. This rubbish "lump" I think is THE bad apple in the changing room. It's all me, me, me. The chance today in the six-yard box sez it all. The Yak would have buried that whilst reading the Beano.

Note to the guy who should have been sent off against "SSHH you know who"... Koeman, get rid of this guy whose job it is to score goals, and make it clear to the rest that, unless they start to score goals, like every other fuckin team in the world, then they'll end up with Steevy fuckin G at MK feckin Dons.

Rant .. On pause.

I would get rid, in January if PSG etc come calling. Not as if we are on contention for anything, based on half the chat here, Koeman gets a pass on this season.

Wake the fuck up, people – we need to win now not next season or in January. People bleat about football not being like any other business. It's not, it is a business, and as soon as Europe is no longer attainable, the manager whoever he is should be removed. Without it the chance of bridging the gap is done.

I don't care how he gets us there, play Baines up front, but get us there or woe betide you, fella.

Phew. All done.

Today we never really had the end product and Gana aside no midfield. It's painful and chronic for the soul but let's hope this form will mean the powder keg of investment will turn our fortune.

Fact is, this season is gonna be painful but, all things considered, we are in a position that is increasingly miraculous. Our December fixtures, will test our resolve. Let's start next week with the same as last season at Southampton.

Oh my god – I needed that laugh, thank you. Some of you lot really do never fail to amaze.

Absolutely gob smacked at how bad the team and manager actually are, and I really expected something to change after Chelsea, but reality is really hitting home.

"No passion, no brains, no effort, easy money" Should be our club motto now. Anyone know enough Latin to translate?!

Maybe Big Vic has been around the track a few times – and sometimes they've been some pretty grimy tracks – and matured a bit. He could be the quintessential late developer. There was, I think always a player in there some where. Could be it's starting to come out... time will tell.

Davies and Holgate need to be brought into the team, while Dowell and maybe one or two others need to be introduced to the squad.

Mirallas, Lennon, Jagielka, McCarthy, Cleverley and more are not up to it and should be moved on. No room for sentiment. Barkley and Deulofeu* seem to have fallen into a rut. Natural talent is there, but for far too long they are just ineffective. Why is this? The coaching needs to be questioned.

* This time last year we were worried Barca may want to buy Deulofeu back on the cheap; now we'd gladly get rid. How has he declined so much?

What worries is that there is little evidence of any adoption of the 'pressing' game that was on show vs Spurs on the opening day. If this style of play was being implemented and results were a bit iffy (like Klopp last season), then that would be understandable. However, we just look crap.

Either Koeman is failing to implement the style he wants, or he is not trying to and has simply adopted a slightly more solid defensively, good to get mid to upper mid table style of football that David Moyes did for so long.

We need serious investment into the team, with a clear-out also in need.

I will say, and have said before, Lukaku is the most overrated player to ever wear an Everton shirt. I honestly believe Koeman was bigging him up during the week because he wants him out and is trying to get the best possible price.

Who would you rather next to you in a brawl, Anichebe or Lukaku? Big Vic for me every time. I knew I would get slated but I don't care, I want that gobshite and his mouthy mate out of the club asap, it can't come quick enough for me.

Tom Davies has looked very good when he has played for Everton, albeit fleetingly. Why put McCarthy straight in after his injury woes? He looked completely off the pace. Surely Davies could not have done any worse and probably a whole lot better.

Let's try a few young, hungry players and see how things go.

You clearly said, in your honest opinion, Vic is better than Lukaku. Shouldn't be surprised coming from you, but that one does just about take the cake. The guy has 7 goals and 3 assists in 11 league matches, and you'd have Vic over him. I love it.

You can laud Lukaku all you want but the last 2 years he has been a big part of the average shite we have watched on a weekly basis. You and others will bang on about his goals, my granny could have scored the last one, but his overall play and attitude is fucking awful. We will be a better team when he is long gone.

However I think Koeman can turn it around. He is Moshiri's man and will be given time and money to rebuild. He has Walsh to bring in the talent and I fully expect a huge squad turnover in January and July.

In the meantime, what he needs to consider is picking a settled line up and formation. Fucking about with the line-up and tactics will not work with a side suffering from a lack of confidence. I was pleasantly surprised by our start to the season, given how appalling we were at the back end of last season.

These dreadful starts are now all too predictable. Whether its the pre-match team talk, routines, drills, whatever – something has to change.

The only changes I would make to yesterday's team are I would like to see Holgate at right-back and Seamus pushed further up. Barry to come back in for McCarthy.

Jags is having an absolute nightmare but until January he is the better option than Funes Mori. The latter was dreadful for Argentina and consistently lost his man against West Ham. I'm not too sure I would feel to happy with him in the back line.

Tough months ahead. Koeman needs a consistent team selection and some hard graft until the next two windows.

Certain individuals are seriously damaging Everton's style of play: Ross Barkley is supposed to be one of the brightest prospects in English football... he is lazy and inconsistent; I am surprised that Koeman has not spotted he is the player who slows down the game.

Another player is Romelu Lukaku, this world class striker is supposedly worth a whopping 㿭m which is a huge amount of money for a player who has zero work rate and is very lazy. Don't get me wrong, he has many qualities, he can score goals, but can we please get a striker who is hard-working and puts in the goals we are crying out for?

Another significant part of the team in difficulties is the heart of the defence. I warn Jagielka now that he is easily replaceable after the penalties conceded and several errors. But not all the blame can be put on Jagielka. Williams has been appalling... what we have done is swap John Stones for a clueless, slow and old central defender. That is clearly bonkers.

We are crying out for new players and maybe Barkley and Lukaku are not our best players...

I think Lukaku may well be a big part of the issue; does nothing for half a dozen games then bangs three or four in and makes you think you can't live without him. It's a bit like having a girlfriend who makes you miserable but is a bit of a looker and all of your mates tell you you'll never get any better so you don't dump her for fear of being left on the shelf.

It's great when he's banging them in but the points we drop when he goes all 'international break' are too damaging and I think the accolades he gets in return for such little all round contribution does probably affect team morale.

The problem is he thinks he's too good for us – he doesn't perform for us, he performs for him – and if you had a missus like that there's only one way it's going to end.

Koeman needs to get a top striker in as a priority to give him some control over the situation, until then our sulky, apparently out-of-our-league centre-forward has got him, us, and the team, well and truly by the balls.

The point being that I was comparing the attitude of supporters to Kendall and Koeman. Kendall was given time and achieved almost all that I and others could have hoped for. Just allow Koeman the same courtesy.

Exactly what was Koeman supposed to be doing over the past 10 days when his players weren't actually there? How was he going to influence their mental state, or work on the set up of the team? Does anyone think he should have been able to correct all of the failings seen at Chelsea, in just the 24 hours he had with the players on the Friday before yesterday's match?

The international break is a leveller, teams like ours where the whole of the first team are away around the world will struggle.

He never had one decent cross to attack all afternoon, the one Bolasie cross that got to him was fired at his midriff!

I have been Lukaku's biggest critic in the past but I can definitely see a massive improvement in his all-round game he drops deep and links the play, he makes runs in behind, he runs the channels, he created chances for other people. The only thing missing from yesterday's game was a quality delivery for Rom to attack. Our crossing is shocking!!!

And I was better at (some of) my jobs than the present tossers pretending to be footballers at Everton will ever be.

If you thought Lukaku had a good game yesterday, then I wouldn't like to see one of his off-days... he never gambled once in the six-yard area to try and anticipate where the ball would go, he resembled a statue for minutes on end, but he wasn't the only one.

I was very disappointed with McCarthy, he never really set out to prove he has a future at Everton – just let the game pass him by.

As others have been saying in the past few weeks, there is something wrong within the club; certain players have given up as though they know they have no future under Koeman. I still think this manager will get it right but not with four or five of these players.

You may recall Chelsea spunked over 㾹m on Adrian Mutu during the Special One's first Chelsea gig. Within a year, he was banned for gak/charlie/beak, and Chelsea sacked him. There then began a protracted legal battle for Chelsea to recover damages – transfer fee, wages/bonus paid, and even costs towards replacing him. Mutu was found liable and fined over €17M – which he never had. More appeals / dismissals followed and eventually the clubs in Italy that signed him afterwards – Juventus and Livorno, were also found jointly liable. More appeals, eventually last year and it was over-turned so basically Chelsea never got anything back.

Point being where hefty transfer fees are involved, clubs will only sack a player as a last resort. Unless you're Joey Barton.

I mean you could never imagine Everton throwing away 㾹.5m could you!!?!? How is Niasse these days?

The ability to carry out their work to a desired standard has to be taken more seriously by clubs when the wording of contracts is drawn up. Clubs can afford to hire the world's best legal advice yet football appears to be one of the last places where performance by what are basically employees has been allowed to be ignored.

Doctors, surgeons, politicians, film directors and actors – everyone it seems but sports people – can all be dismissed and replaced if their performances are not up to required standards. they can have their cake and eat it, underperforming constantly while sitting on fat contracts and laughing all the way to the bank.

The point I am making is, if there was a way to remove bad players the way bad bricklayers or joiners can be got rid of, clubs wouldn't be stuck with duds like Niasse etc sucking the life out of them and the clubs could then move on quicker and not be so reliant on transfer windows over half a decade in order to change the squad and remove the over-the-hill and waste-of-time players clogging up clubs like Everton.

I could not agree more! In any form of employment you are subject to some sort of performance management and if you are not hitting your targets then some form of capability assessment is put in place. Footballers should not be exempt from this particularly if the deficiencies are linked to possible lacking attitude!

Number of goals they should score?
Number of assists they should provide?
Number of yards they should run?
Number of completed passes they should make?
etc?

Until proved other wise we have at minimum, over half a squad of pigs ears, not many silk purses...and even - early days yet mind, a possible pig in a poke of a coach.

We should be looking at introducing at least two or maybe even three of the youngsters into the team who just might shake things up and add vigor and energy.

We know Koeman's hands are tied until January and July but he has to change things now because this style of football is doing my crust in!

Absolute shite.

John (144), are you taking the piss? Lukaku was dreadful. His control is a disgrace. Talking nonsense.

I agree with you, mate. If they're aware that they will be going at end of season, then they won't really give a shit were the team end up.

You would like to think that the fact they're getting paid to do a job would be enough. But then you have to care don't you?

Yes Jon, get some of the young lads in, as the seniors have had their chance. Might shake them up as you say.

As for the Lukaku bashers (and I have called him in the past), well there are parts of his game that need improving but sell him? Sheer madness... and replace him with who?

We should be adding to him. Jermain Defoe scored his 150th goal yesterday. I've always rated Defoe... now he's a class act. But I've said this many times on different threads.

Let's hope Walsh, waves his magic wand at some point.

Why should it be necessary to tell Barkley, Lukaku et al to close down the defence? Why should it be necessary to drill the players that we need to start the game on the front foot and not only start to play in the 2nd half when a goal down? Why should it be necessary to kick players arses after a drubbing? Why should it be necessary to ask players to put their bodies on the line to defend and not concede soft goals? All of these things should be a given, especially true of players playing in the so-called elite league in England.

Most of the current first team squad are just not good enough. They don't seem to possess any of the qualities listed above. They go through the motions and occasionally have the odd good day on the park which they assume satisfies the fans for a few weeks. Talent alone just does not do it. Will to win has to come from within and very few of our players have it.

Barkley's pathetic tearful episode at half time in the semi final last season just typifies why he is not a winner. Instead of telling himself that he will prove the fans wrong, he had to get Jags to consol him, ffs. Lukaku is just not a team player and probably disrupts the team more than anybody. There is no selfless runs from him, drawing away the defence down the channels to open space for others, just a lot of gesticulating when the balls in don't go exactly where he wants them. Mirallas is too busy looking for the free kick; Deloufeu is too busy trying to be Ronaldo – very badly, Lennon has running in him but little else, McCarthy likewise.

We could probably put the kids in there but will it make much of a difference? Maybe. The effort would certainly be there but they are not like the United kids of 92, they won't put us in the top 6 I don't think. Only Tom Davis is probably ready for first team action. Mason Holgate is/will be a good player and should be given a run at centre half, his proper position not full back. If we had proper support from our front men then maybe Baines and Coleman would start to look like the players we know they can be. The dead wood is up front. Laziest bunch of fuckers that I've seen for years. No first line of defence, no creativity, no team work, need replacing as soon as.

Blaming Koeman for piss poor attitudes that seems incurable is about as accurate as blaming the fans for the teams current malaise. There is no professional pride in some players and no amount of coaching can instill that in players – it's down to the players themselves and if they can't provide it then it's time to get others who do have pride in themselves and the shirt they wear.

They would be dispersed between mid to bottom table, including the Championship! We need to have a whopping big car boot sale in January!

However, his strike partner Defoe would have been worth signing before he went off to Canada I think it was, and even when he returned from there.

Overall, I am prepared to give Koeman a chance to get it right but many of the current squad need to be let go over the next few transfer windows.

There isn't one Man Utd fan calling for Mourinho's head after spending hundreds of millions and they are on the same number of points. Does anybody really think ANY manager can turn this current squad into a Champions League side? If you do, put down the whisky.

Koeman will be given the funds in due course to have us challenging for the Champions League places, then we can judge him when he has his team and his players. I've a feeling a few of our players who are quite comfortable in 6th or 7th will be quietly let go. There will be a massive change in expectations right throughout the whole club, but it won't happen overnight.

As far as some people mentioning Moyes and Anichebe, I'm off to open bottle of whisky. Fuck me.

I also am sure you know how many Swansea players were away on international duty during the weeks prior to yesterday's match. It's also clearly ludicrous to suggest that the influence of a manager is in anyway reduced by not being with his players.

Sadly, most of the "creatives" seem not to possess moderate brightness, or just don't give a toss.

Of course, it can be argued that that applies to all managers who have significant numbers of players away on international duty. But I agree with you because it's relevant where you have a manager who is new to the club and therefore is yet to find his best combinations of players and tactics for different situations.

Wenger, Klopp, the Pooch at Spurs, for example, have the advantage over Koeman in that respect. And, apart from them, the others above us in the league have far better players, in greater numbers, to call on.

1... The entertainment factor is higher than most Premier League games I have watched recently; and

2... Neither team at Goodison Park yesterday looked better than Championship quality.

Moyes's win percentage at Man Utd is second only to Ferguson since the war and third best in their history... maybe they got shut of him too soon? Their performances are certainly no better, nor is the football, despite the tens of millions more spent on players since his departure.

And yes, if Moyes hadn't left and we hadn't had the Martinez experience I believe we'd be a better side than we are now.

Just sayin'...

It's an interesting idea, but I fear it might be more of an Howard Kendall Mk 2 than a glorious return. I'm pushed to think of any returning managers who have achieved anything like the same in their second stay at a club. Interesting though...

Could it be that Man Utd fans did it to their two previous managers until they got who they thought they wanted?

That said, Koeman seems to require more time and, unless we suddenly find ourselves as a relegation possibility, he should indeed be given that time, if for no other reason than to determine if it is him or the players who are not up to it.

Again, as you pointed out, teams with a well established manager who knows his players inside out and vice versa, are going to cope more easily with international breaks.

Swansea's manager is only 4 games into his job, but he didn't loose as many players and this point, plus the reality that both managers' abilities to influence their teams' preparation was levelled off as neither of them were actually with their players in the 2 weeks leading up to the game (other than the day before); that shouldn't be ignored in my opinion.

So, yes, if Walsh can unearth someone similar for a million quid who can bang a few in, why not? A good foil for Lukaku in a 4-4-2 formation.

This doubled-barrelled kid who cost ٟm from Sheff Utd in our U23s could yet be that foil. Seems to have promise.

Charles, no, not Moyes coming back, the thought that if Moyes had never left, so, not a glorious return but a continuation of his previous tenure, but with the advantage of the new regime.

Now, I KNOW I'll take loads for saying this but we'd started to play some decent stuff before he showed his snake-like properties and slithered off down the East Lancs, indeed I think Matinez's first seasons relative success was down to Moyes groundwork and that is something that's been discussed on here before.

But as a hypothetical scenario I DO think that we would be in a better place if Moyes had had the advantage of continuity WITH Moshiri's backing and without Kenwright's meddling.

Of course, this would only have been a possibility if old Sly Boots hadn't buggered off to Old Toilet. Shitbag.

The same Chelsea some people on here were saying we had no right to compete with.

You need to remember that Everton is small, a squad full of terrible players. It's going to take at least 3 more transfer windows to make us competitive. We should all be grateful for our masterful manager who has greatly improved our defense and "tells it like it is".

We had a sizeable number who apologised for Martinez for about two and a half seasons. When others could see the writing on the wall, some couldn't even see the wall... it's happening again. Once again, we have chosen the wrong guy, and if alarm bells are not ringing in your head, perhaps you should apply for Quasimodo's gig at Notre Dame.

How long do you think it took the Red Shite to know Woy was wrong? How long did it take the Manc's to see TGT was wrong?

What drives me nuts is this "I'm pretty sure he will get it right" garbage. ON WHAT GROUNDS? What signs of encouragement are you guys seeing? We are getting worse!

I have not seen anyone call for Koeman to be sacked. We are stuck with him. it cost (including compo) around 㿏m to get him here. He has spunked 㿔m on a show pony and a centre-half who was no better than what we had. It would cost probable another 㿀m to get a new manager (and probably more compo).

Koeman wants to give a few home truths while he's here. He's going to have to learn to accept a few. By getting tonked at Bournemouth and Burnley, losing at home to Norwich and failing to beat Palace and Swansea at home, he has even taken away the money argument the excuse factory are always so willing to produce.

He's been here five months, No one has a clue what he is trying to do – certainly not the players.

I'm expecting more hard-line honesty tomorrow. More of that blindingly obvious nonsense we keep getting told is the unpalatable truth.

"Guyshh, We are playing again next week. I know it's not what you want to hear... but somebody hash to be brave enough to shay it."

Koeman is on record as saying he has and wants nothing to do with transfers. He's said his job is to manage the players he is given. He didn't build the Southampton squad.

At least before Martinez unravelled, he had the decency of giving us one very good season. I really don't know what Koeman is doing right now. Whatever it is, the players don't look happy with it.

I hope an unexpectedly good surprise is coming, that's as positive as I can be at the moment.

Okay, we failed to beat Swansea and Palace at home, two sides that we also failed to beat at home last season. We are in a state of transition in every aspect, both on the pitch and off it. We can't compete with the top 6 due to a lack of quality and strength in depth and Koeman needs to be given both time and money to implement his plans.

Thankfully, Farhad Moshiri broke his silence a couple of weeks ago in the interview with Jim White and patience is seriously required in the weeks and months that lie ahead.

Its obvious we do not have the personnel to do the pressing game he wants so, either he gets the type of players needed for the type of philosophy he brings with him or, we are in for a frustrating 3 years and we should be happy with just staying in the Premier League.

Any supporter asking for Koeman to be sacked now is totally insane. As we witnessed with Martinez, it takes around 12 months for a manager to really make his mark.

Man Utd have changed managers 3 times in as many years and spent over 200 million. are they any better off with the supposed "Best manager in the world".

Let's have a sense of perspective here lads. The Moshiri/Koeman ticket is only just taking root and like any plan takes time and patience to implement effectively.

Your analysis of the situation borders on docile. I'm guessing when you finally wake up, you won't be able to find the coffee.

You are not crying that you are not getting what you want for Christmas, because you have been told Santa will bring it to you and you have bought in big time.

Find that coffee fella . . and give it a good sniff.

Paul Tran,

Thank goodness for Dickie Johnson.

After the new manager bounce, came Norwich; the more astute members on these boards slated the team selection and how it might undermine our good start. I wasn't convinced... I am now!

I've seen and heard nothing to give me hope that Koeman is the right man for the job, in the next transfer window or the one after... or his clever psychological tactics to empower our vulnerable and sensitive front man come good and add to his sell-on value. Sometimes you can't stop the rot, look at Villa & Newcastle, hope to God I'm totally overreacting.

Patience and playing the waiting game is great for bird watching but this is the Premier League which is the most expensive football league on this planet, played with power, passion and pace.

So let me say that I'm getting pig sick of watching the dross that seems to be getting served up most weekends. We don't get cheaper seats at Goodison for the bollox that Koeman calls football and I'm totally fucking sure that our players are not paid the minimum wage for turning up.

Our players rarely tackle for the ball and more laughable, certain players think that jogging is some form of sprinting. But what really fucks me off is that shower of shite are coming over in about 3 weeks and for almost 㿔, I'm probably going watch them give us a right fucking slap.

The players don't look comfortable or happy with their lot at the moment but then again they haven't for most of the last 2 and half years. If I was the manager I would shake them all up by not including most of them in my squad this side of Christmas and put half a dozen youngsters in the team. What could we possibly lose? After all, the same insipid performances from the last few games if replicated will likely lead to a few defeats in the next half-a-dozen fixtures.

Jags has gone and is unlikely to recover his previous good form; Koeman needs a new captain and he might be wise to give it to Seamus. The forward line, as somebody else on TW said, are a pretty work-shy bunch of prima donnas, who don't seem to have any professional pride whatsoever and are certainly not helping Koeman and his staff.

Barkley should be loaned out to a European club for 12 months as he is getting more and more frustrated and some time away from Goodison may help him to rediscover his mojo.

If we get the return of points which we expect in the next few fixtures, the pressure will be on and the consequences could be devastating for the manager the team and the club. The time has come for everybody connected with the first team to ask themselves if they are giving 100% to the cause, and if they don't feel that they are, ask themselves why this should be the case and what can they do to change things.

This latest run of games without a victory is concerning because it's not necessarily the results in isolation that have been poor but the lack of intent, belief, attacking flair or sheer bloody mindedness which is the sort of thing you would expect from a relegation threatened team and not one aiming for Europe. Only a couple of players have shown anything like the form they are capable of and, more worryingly, those that have failed to show their true form are not prepared to work hard in order to regain that form.

The "I can see the demise" routine is so old hat and boring. Why not actually get behind the team. The crowd at Goodison yesterday had its moments when it tried to get the players to up the tempo, but like the players themselves, they are not consistent.

Offensively we're about the same... hopeless.

Our players are not that good and I believe that Koeman is a conservative coach who will first of all do his reputation no harm. Progress will be slow but it will happen. I hope that he has seen enough and that change will happen.

I expect Holgate to get a run in the side because Koeman, I believe, has given enough time to the old guard. I am convinced that Koeman is ruthless enough to make changes and I expect a settled, and different line up by Christmas.

What exactly, if you were Moshiri, would you do? Support your man, I would guess.

Apologies to anyone who might have said it already, but I have just gone to the end of the thread after reading Patrick in the little smallprint.

Some players are hiding, whilst some players look like they have already threw in the towel. I liked James McCarthy, but where has the kid's fight gone? Okay, he's been out a while, but now he hasn't got Martinez to tell him how good he his, it's like he believes Koeman doesn't fancy him and, instead of trying to prove the man wrong, there just seems to be a general acceptance, which is a disgusting attitude really.

Jagielka is also playing with the body language that he's playing for a manager who isn't quite sure of him, and is using none of his experience to try and turn things round.

With the lack of creativity being shown by our midfielders at the minute, and the lack of numbers we get into the oppositions box, then I think we need to start playing 4-4-2 sometimes, especially at Goodison against the weaker teams.

"Listen Ron, you can't do fuck all, son, our stars are away on international footy; write the Swans game off as those Welsh lads are top notch. After that we'll do some head tennis and a team night out at a Chinese and we'll be fuckin' mint, son."

"Okay Jimmy, fair enough; another bevy r mucker?"

How can you hang on this international break factor? I genuinely despair. 🙄

Darren – spot on. All this "we've got to give him time" shite. Fella is stinking the joint out. Simply not good enough.

Very funny post btw (#190) 😃😃

Certainly food for thought!

I think you'll find, Dean, the word TREND really makes your sentence irrelevant.

They where bought by managers who preferred workhorses, work rate over skill. This is not the Koeman way, those players are being asked to do things they are incapable of.

McCarthy is one in question, he is no ball player by any stretch of the imagination. Baines and Jags are in the twilight and surely wont be around for another season; Mirallas is sugar or shite and Deulofeu...

The one thing I did notice yesterday was how quickly Barkley was releasing the ball when he received it, he's obviously been listening to the manager with regards dallying on the ball.

We all now know your viewpoint, there's no need to keep banging your drum.

My question to you is: What's your solution to all of this?

My solution? ... Not sure if it's possible to have a 'solution' (not one that can be proven) on a website. I can only offer an opinion.

Look, when asked about his public criticism of Barkley (justified BTW) Koeman replied "Why not ?".. He told a startled Gary Lineker that he believes criticism is a big motivator. He surely didn't just get that belief?

I saw a lot of Koeman as a player. He had a good range of passing, but, contrary to what now seems popular belief, he did not possess the silky skills associated with many of his Dutch or Barca teammates. He was though, a fierce, fierce competitor. This is a guy who in a major final was able to shrug off screams that "He shouldn't even be on the fucking pitch" to hammer home the winner.

Managing is a world away from playing. Suddenly, the buck stops with you, but in my experience a "fuck you" attitude transcends every profession.

Our last manager thought he was a genius,. He clearly thought he was destined for the top. Why? Because he was told he was everywhere he went. "Destined for the very top" – Dave Whelan. "The next Barca manager" – countless Evertonians. "A wonderful new innovator" – The media.

He had so much smoke blown up his arse, the poor fucker thought he was a chimney stack... it's bollocks, it's unhealthy bollocks. Why as fans are we so ready to proclaim our managers as "top class" before they have done anything?

These people who are saying "I KNOW he will get it right..." "Get behind your man" ... "be positive" are killing this club.

"Be positive?" is there anything more negative than defending the shite we have witnessed this past couple of months?

If we are to get the performances we hope for from this manager, we at least need to speak the same language. If his tactics have been shite, then say so. If he makes a poor substitution, then say so... and if his team are performing at an unacceptable level then YOU, as an Evertonian, have an obligation to say so.

Let's at least learn from OUR mistakes. Praising and "standing by" a manager when he is clearly going in the wrong direction gets you exactly nowhere... which is exactly where we are right now

You wrote "The crowd at Goodison yesterday had its moments when it tried to get the players to up the tempo, but like the players themselves, they are not consistent. "

Have you noticed that Goodison has been sold out for every Premier League match so far this season? Do you not think that good enough?

We haven't seen a convincing victory at home against a decent club side for ages in the Premier League, in fact even the games we have managed to win, the team has been far from convincing. How are we as fans supposed to get enthused when we don't have much belief in the team, and that team doesn't contain a natural folk-hero who the crowd can rally around?

It is only the fact that the players wear our famous blue shirts that makes them identifiable as Everton players, as they don't have too many of the other attributes that would usually define them as an Everton team. In fact, this team has become an anonymous bunch of players who seem to have been thrown together without any sort of plan and without any sort of belief or pride in the club they are representing – Coleman and a couple of other players aside.

As Ken Buckley wrote in his match report, the crowd at Goodison will always respond if the team give it something to respond to. Does a good comedian expect the audience to start laughing the moment he/she walks on stage or does he/she have to tell a few funny jokes first?

If this post doesn't state explicitly you want Koeman sacked, then my understanding of the English language is non-existent.

Koeman will never be the answer. Let's not pretend he inherited all these problems. Five of those who saw this game out were his signings. He also has alternatives to the out of form oldies, but he doesn't have the guts to play youngsters unless he has no other option.

This is not knee-jerk, it is based on what I have heard and what I have seen. He doesn't have what it takes to fire up a team.

In recent weeks we have been humbled by Burnley, humped by Bournemouth, held by two of the favourites for relegation and humiliated by Chelsea.

This really has a groundhog day feel to it, we have a manager who is hopelessly out of his depth and all I can hear is "Give him time... I'm sure he will get it right". Well I'm certain he won't.

Mark my words; Give "Honest Ronnie" time and he will find himself reliving his the nightmare he endured at Valencia.

Just do one, Ron, Ron... just do one, Ron

We are pretty solid at the back but still making stupid mistakes. There is a distinct lack of guile in midfield. An Arteta and Cahill in their prime would be good.

Time for a clear-out if you ask me.

Agreed, but I don't think people are being positive about shite being served up. All that's being said is, give Koeman time. How much time? For me, I expect to see improvements as this season progresses, and further improvement through to next season and beyond. I'm not sure what more I could expect or demand.

I could demand instant success, but it wouldn't do any good. At this stage I'm not demanding a new manager. Even if I were, I wouldn't be confident about a replacement sorting things out any quicker given the state we were in last season.

I'm used to disappointment as an Evertonian, but it doesn't mean I'll put up with it in the future. I'm used to Everton building us up and then letting us down. I'm just hoping that this time will be different. But if it isn't, and it turns out to be false promises, I can see myself effectively voting with my feet, by way of just losing interest.

For example, if I'm of the opinion that, a year from now, Everton players don't give a shit, and can't be arsed to put effort in, then I won't make any further effort either. Can't see what else a supporter can do, other than continue to endure disappointments, with protest or without.

Personally, I want to see material progress. I will not accept the we have a shit squad argument as to the lack their of said progress. He is supposed to be a good manager, but worrying he is showing signs of archaic inflexibility.

At Southampton the pressing game was instilled with a changing squad which was much younger than ours. So why the persistence in a game plan which cannot be sustained? That stinks of a one trick pony to me.

Showing me he understands the squads limitations and plays a way that suits them until he can change the personnel would show me hes good. He ain't; to date we've had three games were he's got his selections and tactics incorrect. This has forced substitutions before half time, a worrying pattern.

We have singularly failed to play well for the majority of any game to date; we have no idea how to break down sides which sit in – ironic given we are quite rubbish ourselves.

I'd even give him credit if he realised the older players cannot adapt to pressing so I'll play three younger players instead. Manifestly hes trusts the younger crop not one bit. If in five months we cannot see any form of progress then what hope is there when he gets better players?

The stark reality is, if we are not in contention for a European spot come January, we are unlikely to get the players we need to secure that spot. As we slide further down the greasy Premier League pole, even with money, players won't come.

My bar is clear. Europe or bust for Koeman.

I can't disagree with any of that. In particular, I cannot fathom why some of our younger players aren't being used, as in the final game of last season, and especially why Holgate was dropped.

My patience isn't infinite, even after 55 years of supporting.

I think you still feel slightly embarrassed that you supported Martinez for so long (well into his third season) and in desperation you are spouting the same crap in the hope that you will be proved right this time around. You won't, You have nailed your colours to another rotten mast.

I know you thought you were being clever and that you had trapped me with your latest offering, but I'm afraid you have missed your target again. You are grasping at thin air – again.

You see there is a very definite difference between wanting somebody gone and wanting them sacked. We have already lined one failures pockets to the tune of ten million quid this year, sacking Koeman would cost even more. then there's the 㿔m he has spunked on players like Bolasie and Williams.

aAs ALREADY explained if we sacked Koeman tomorrow we would have to employ somebody else, that would probably cost another 㿀m. In other words we'd have spent around 𧴜m quid in six months to be exactly where we where. ... Squandering that sort of money in that sort of time will not enhance our chances of a water front stadium.

I do NOT want Koeman to be given 㾾m compo for doing a seriously crap job. I do not want him rewarded for being sacked.

Make no mistake, I want him gone, but I would rather somebody tempted him away with a better offer (like that will happen) or if Honest Ronnie walked out saying "this is a bigger task than I thought" ... but, we all know that wont happen either.

Let me spell this out: I am sick to death of second-class managers taking the piss out of Evertonians with half witted promises then riding out with full saddle bags after making a pigs ear of a job. I do not want this fella to do the same.

It's funny your understanding of the English language doesn't seem "non-existent" when you are penning your articles calling for support of your latest knight in shining armour.

Personally I'm tending to take the view of let's give him at least one decent transfer window before we start ripping at him like a pack of hyenas!

As I got older, I increasingly treated EFC like I treat private pension funds, i.e. not to be trusted with too much investment. I'm just hoping, with our new era, that Everton is not like Equitable Life, taking people for a ride whilst others get rich.

We must remember this is not his team (that's what I keep telling myself in hope), when it does seem a bit déjà vu with Koeman's management of the team. Unless it goes totally belly up, I think it's only fair he has this season at least to show us all what he is made of.

Another big test for Koeman this weekend!

Baby steps.

Four years ago Everton had lost to Reading away 1-2. Steven Naismith had given Everton the lead but Le Fondre equalised early in the 2nd half and the same player converted a penalty late in the game. Everton had 20 points from a dozen league games, 3 points behind WBA in fourth place and 8 points behind the league leaders Man City. We had scored 22 and conceded 16 goals.

Three years ago, Everton shared six goals with their local rivals which meant that the other lot stayed 3 points ahead of seventh placed Everton but four points behind leaders Arsenal. Man City occupied fourth place with a one point lead over Everton.

Two years ago Everton beat West Ham 2-1 at Goodison Park, Romelu Lukaku gave Everton the lead midway through the first half but Zarate eqaulised for the Hammers early in the second period Samuel Eto'o was given an assist as Leon Osman bagged the winner. Everton had 17 points from the dozen games played and had scored 22 but conceded 19. The Blues were 2 points behind fourth placed Man United and a massive 15 points behind league leaders Chelsea.

Last season, Everton returned from Upton Park with a point Manuel Lanzini had given the home team the lead after half an hour but Romelu Lukaku equalised shortly before the break, the point meant that Everton's tally was 17 points whilst they had scored 20 and conceded 16 goals. Manchester United were sat in fourth place seven points ahead of the Toffees whilst Manchester City were nine points ahead of the Blues in top spot.

Today we lie 9 points behind Chelsea in top spot and 6 points off fourth placed Arsenal. Given our past few season, we are probably about where we could reasonably expect to be. Doubtless the aims are higher from the fans today than they have been in the past but unfortunately the performances of the current players seems to have stood still for the last three seasons.

You don't want to see Koeman given any more time, but you don't want him sacked because of any financial compo. You were caught out calling for his head after 12 League games, and probably felt a little embarrassed.

It's OK – we understand your frustration. But don't make daft excuses as you just have for wanting to see the back of Koeman after 12 League games... stick to your guns mate.

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Does McCarthy, the manager, the captain etc think this is acceptable? Does this not get picked up at half-time, or by any if the analysts that watch the game, or any other analyst that watch prior games.

I've picked one issue here, but you could carry on with set pieces, midfielders getting ahead of Lukaku etc etc etc. What the hell do they do in training at Finch Farm???

I don't expect Koeman to turn around two seasons of going backwards into miracles, but I do expect the vast clique to have some semblance of professional pride and spark. Bar Coleman and Gueye, the rest cheated another living... again.

It's pretty clear what I am saying (the clue is in the last sentence of post 92). Your latest straw man argument is there for all to see.

Sacking managers is more than just an expensive business, especially for a club like us who pay top dollar without receiving anywhere near the revenue to support it. Do it often enough and It could ruin the club.

To be a sacking club, you have to either have so much money, you can just brush it off (Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, The Red Shite) or you hire the best you can for reasonable wages. We are the club which falls between these two stools.

Unfortunately Moshiri has made our bed and whether we like it or not, we are going to have to lie in it. Everton's tradition of hiring managers who will simply keep the status quo is as prevalent as it ever was.

If you were to take away the dream/promise/hint that we will end up in a super stadium on the banks of the Mersey, I suspect the hope we all cling on to of rising back to the top would just about have disappeared by now.

On a brighter note... I must admit, it is quite amusing to be told by you that my position is ridiculous, especially given your track record for supporting buffoonery

And yes, I too believe we'd have a good bit of craic over a few Dons.

I'll give him a bit longer, but if it doesn't inprove, 'Koeman Out' banners will start to be put together.

However, the players he inherited have been inconsistent and that's putting it mildly. Coleman is no way near where he was 3 years ago but he still gives 100%. Jags is goosed and I reckon finds it difficult to play alongside Williams. Baines's injuries and the departure of Pienaar have done for him. McCarthy is not up to it and I believe he's wanted out for a while now. Cleverley is a midtable squad player at best.

Barkley mystifies me and his manager too. Mirallas is all for himself and always has been. Lennon looks like he's resigned to leaving soon, what happened to the hardworking / scoring Lennon we took on loan – oh yes we gave him a contract. Lukaku scores the goals that keep us above the relegation dross and that's why Koeman plays him. I personally believe Koemans' way of playing would not include Lukaku but for now he needs his goals.

Other players such as Kone, Gibson and Oviedo are not first team players. That leaves us with Barry who is class but unfortunately too bloody old, though how he keeps putting in the performances he does, deserves our praise.

Perhaps Koeman should get more out of them and I reckon one or two will up their game when they see who leaves in January.

I expect Moyes to come in for Jagielka, who will grab the chance with both hands. Whether Kone comes in the other direction we will have to wait and see. I would let one of Mirallas, Deulofeu or Lennon go too In January. Lennon maybe the obvious one given we are looking at the Leeds left back and Lennon started there, so a swap deal and cash could be on the cards. Kone should go but who would take him. Oviedo could go as we are getting Galloway back from WBA.

I would like us to go in for Siggurdsson from Swansea as we desperately need someone with a football brain in the final third of the pitch.

Only when Koeman has the players who can play the way he wants will we be able to judge him. I for one will give him the time he needs and I reckon Moshiri will too.

I see Spurs fans are after Pochettino, after Spurs went out of the C/League tonight – unbelievable.