Stones talks about his struggles under Martinez

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It confirms to a degree that something was rotten in the state of Goodison last season. A tellingly long pause when he was asked whether his previous manager gave him the same amount of advice as his current one. He is diplomatic in his answer, but also states whatever he was doing wrong (when dropped by Martinez) the manager never spoke to him about what it was.

He also mentions the pleasure he got recently from simply belting the ball into row Z so the team could regroup and that, as primarily a defender, his decision making has much improved already under Pep, whereas at Everton he says: "I was doing things before and then I would think: ‘Why have I done that? Why haven't I just put it out in Row Z?"

Him now saying he knows when to kick the ball into Row Z is a bit rich too! I'm sure the Park End we're trying to educate him on that last season!

Stones may be a really nice lad, or he may be a complete self-obsessed, self-centred, selfish arsehole like a lot of the overpaid preening ponies of the Premier League.

My lad's sixteen and he doesn't need a grown up to tell him when to put it in Row Z, he makes his own mind up because he learns as he goes along, by his mistakes if you like. Couldn't Stones, at 22, do that?

These footballers should play football and shut the fuck up.

Plus, I believe Koeman would be a much better role model to a defender than overrated Guardiola (he's good but he isn't THAT good). However, it might suit Stones's style to learn from Guardiola.

He should apologize to Martinez who kept him in the team even though he made mistake after mistake.

If Martinez was still here the comments would have credence however there is a whole new set up which he fails to mention it would seem.

I remember when Duncan Ferguson went to Newcastle, presser was the first time I heard him utter a word. The next and last time was at his testimonial.

Might be worth remembering that when deciding his future; Stones signed for Moyes not Martinez at the time too.

What a gobshite.

Pundits were on his back, as were we, the crowd, and rightly so, for some of the things he was doing. I don't think he really needed an explanation as it was fairly obvious why he wasn't playing.

I'm sorry, John, but playing shit doesn't get you into a team – being a footballer, this shouldn't surprise you.

Put simply, this character thought he was far too good for us. That alone makes me wish that he, professionally, falls flat on his face, turning out for any one of the moneybags clubs he would have preferred to play for.

The one thing that gives me any pleasure is that we got a decent fee for him. As we saw against West Ham, when they scored on Sunday, when a high ball came into the box, he was absent. He doesn't fancy aerial challenges.

Anyone who has played in defence at any level knows that you've got to be fearless, knowing that you could get someone's head or elbow in your gob at any time. He's not the kind of centre half we need and, it seems, Koeman recognises this.

We need a commanding figure who is good in the air. Stones is not that kind of player and never will be. He's a good player but, as a defender, vastly overrated.

Really???

One word, Anfield.

I imagine the last one to two years at the club has soured his memories, which is a shame as it would be better for him if he had more positive ones.

But hey ho. We have Matty Foulds and Mason Holgate and a few other promising youngsters.

He doesn't read the game well enough to be a truly top defender. Pundits suggesting he's going to be the next Pique could be right, but Pique wouldn't do so well in England either.

Surely it's easier to play for Barcelona where no-one presses defenders; I think Pep will find that out this quickly this year.

Ships in the night. Move on.

Right backpasses, right losing possession in dangerous areas, right watching your marker breeze past you to head home, and right bottling it at Anfield .

A right tosser!

All we wanted was a CB who could defend and score the odd goal. What we got was a guy who thought he was Bobby Beckenbauer and fancied the pants off himself.

Well now we have Holgate and Williams. Both of them better than he is. Our defense looks a lot more solid and they won't get caught dicking around with the ball right in front of goal. And they both look like they'll score the odd goal or two. Holgate is a much better RB as well.

I'm eagerly looking forward to the next 3 matches.

At the moment, the press are loving him, an Englishman at Man City. He should watch his back, as when he inevitably fucks-up, he will be toasted by these same journos.

Anyone would look better with top class players around them, but it is very early days for him at City, and some tougher tests await him than Sunderland, Steua (twice), Stoke and West Ham. Let's see how clever he is after playing Man Utd on Sept 10th.

City will not surf through with Stones defending.

I hope he goes on and fulfills the potential everybody can see – except for a number of EFC fans that is!

Obviously there were bad times, especially at Anfield, but he is hardly going to bring that up in an interview. Like Ian Jones (#19), I think he owes EFC a huge vote of thanks for giving him the opportunity despite the 3 years he had to operate under Martinez.

The ungrateful git should remember and acknowledge what EFC did for his career.

Pep: 'That would be Ronald Koeman '

Stones: 'Dooooh...!!'

I think he'll struggle against the top teams defensively and be found out. It'll also be interesting to see how he does against Barcelona... I fear for him in them games.

Everton made him a very rich young man and he should show a little gratitude.

He always thought he was bertie big bollocks and as far as I'm concerned Man City are welcome to him. We did well out of his sale but we earned that by employing him and improving him. He's now at the right club in his tiny mind.

Well I for one am glad he's gone. I'd have Ashley Williams any day over Stones. Good riddance. He may well be a good player but he's a first-rate miserable prick

I still think Stones will get found out when the ball is in flight, as he fails to track and clear sufficiently well enough.

Maybe in time he will learn, but I think when Man City have to deal with direct balls into their box, they will find out whether Stones is really a defender worth the money.

The jury is still out for me and I'm glad of the £47.5m in the bank from that deal.

Just Kissing Pep's arse. And I thought he was better than that.

Not to worry, John, you've gone now and a new target will be found to blame for any mishap. I wonder who it will be?

That will unfortunately be my lasting memory of Stones. Playing at Anfield really up against it, Funes Mori sent off and all possible other centre halves injured and he trudged off with a 'bad belly' – absolutely gutless in my mind!

I'm sure most, if not all ToffeeWeb readers would have given anything to be out there in his place! I think we were left with Besic and McCarthy at the back?!

Never mind, he's gone now.

Developing nicely under Pep 'can players who've known me for less than two minutes kiss my arse any harder' Guardiola – aka 'Mr Row Z'.

You've made your decision to leave this great club, very few players leave this club and go on to do better things.

Stones has the potential to be the best ball-playing centre back since Ferdinand; he will never be the best defender but you don't need to be when you play for a team like City.

Good luck to the lad... besides when he plays against us.

I rate him but I have my doubts he will be as good as some believe. To be a world class defender, you have to... err, defend, that's something he struggles with – especially in the air.

Another thing: if he thinks Evertonians were tough on him, wait till he has a run of bad games like he did with us – them Mancs will turn on him in a heartbeat.

Stones's positional awareness, his heading, his physical power and his goal threat all need work and I'm baffled that he thought he would do better under Guardiola with any of those aspects of his game than he would have done with Ronald.

Oh well, I agree with Laura Round...

The train of thought I prescribed to when Stones was here was that he was a young player getting by on pure, natural talent but without a firm hand to guide him when to temper the finer stuff with the simple nitty gritty. When he started to struggle he was left to his own devices to find a way of reversing his downturn in form.

When your manager publicly states he wants you to carry on exactly as you are and not alter the way you play the game, but then drops you anyway and declines to tell you why, then I think you're entitled to be a little confused as to what the fuck it is he wants from you exactly.

We bought him for fish 'n chips and sold him to fund the purchase of three or four players who can change our fortunes. Slick business!

People can look at the TDD as a disaster, but in hindsight we done very well, overall. Stones can blame Martinez, who was a disaster. But personally I feel that Stones was becoming moody and problematic.

Put it like this... would the Blues who did not want to see Stones leave, prefer that we buy him back for £30m (if we were offered)? Making a hefty profit of £20m in the process, but losing the four players that we bought with his sale!

A hypothetical question, I know, but one to make us consider our more than good fortune! The glass is quite definitely half-full, imo!

He knows that he could have stayed at Everton and been coached by Koeman, an outstanding player.

What is so great about Guardiola? He achieved less at Bayern Munich than many of his immediate predecessors.

A flipping 10-year-old doesn't need telling when to boot it out, so why does an adult earning 㿞k plus a week need to?

It's very easy for him to say all this now, so it's not worth saying or taking seriously.

According to a report on the Man City v West Ham game "It was thought that Stones had an eye injury but afterwards Guardiola remarked that the 22 year old was not playing to the required standard. "I saw him tired, I saw him with problems" said the Manchester City manager."

Who'd have thought, the Park End at the cutting edge of football coaching, 10 months ahead of the legend that is Pep Guardiola.

He has gone now, I suspect our needs over the next couple of seasons will be better served by the no-nonsense Jags/Williams style of defending.

When he took on Ibrahimovic at his Old Trafford debut he was very impressive and has been consistently since. John who?

But purely from an ethical view, I'd be pretty disappointed if I was Roberto. He supported Stones and allowed him to make mistakes in search of an improved ability to make decisions. He let him learn in the first team... a huge opportunity and show of faith. We didn't like it but the one person who should have appreciated it seems to be the one who doesn't. I always found John to be quite an impressive young man but this doesn't feel great from him.

Really didn't see myself posting something in support of Martinez this season!!!

Martinez was making us all look stupid in the stands. His comments after games made me feel I needed to see an optician because I was seeing things he wasn't. Stones has to take responsibility. He was not 16 or 17. He is a intelligent guy when it comes to defending. Martinez failed to kick him up the arse and drop him after poor performances.

John better learn quickly or Pep will tell him what he thinks.

Next topic, Sunderland away...

Man City is a completely different animal, with all their riches and recent success, I can't see him in the first team long if he doesn't cut out the big-time Charlie stuff

The chances Stones has been given in the Everton First Team would not have been afforded to many. Especially after a transfer request.

Perhaps Martinez wasn't the best person to coach Stones defensively. But he really encouraged the lad to express himself. I think it's disrespectful from Stones not to acknowledge that.

I remember watching a few interviews with Stones before he made it into Everton's First Team. He honestly came across as a lovely lad, completely unaffected. I don't think he's turned into an arrogant prick overnight. Maybe he just has a bit of growing up to do.

The guy had the wildies. The reason the rest of the players had to wait for Stones to come out at the start of the second half, was because he was on the Anfield away dressing room bog squirting the liquid stuff.

He had to come off... Think about the alternative before you start spouting such err... shite.

Imagine the Kopites if one of our players did, quite literally shit himself on their pitch?

"To err is human, to blame it on someone else is even more human."

Still, for 㿛½ mill, let him have his say.

He thinks he's in Nirvana now he's with Guardiola, but, and I'm being brutally honest here, Pep was a great defensive midfielder for Barcelona under Crutff, but didn't set the world alight when he left them for Bescia, later Roma and ended up playing for a couple of lesser clubs in Qatar and Mexico. He was lucky to then be made coach of a team of superstars at Barcelona and could hardly fail but then went to Bayern where he did okay but not stellar.

I've always thought his reputation as a coach is based more on his reputation as a player than as a coach and let Stones remember that Pep loves the old tippy tappy crap that caused him so many problems under Martinez.

How will he cope with Guardiola's ruthless ambition? The guy won't think twice about dropping him if he feels Stones isn't performing as he demands, no matter how well he conducts himself as he's trying to make out he did at Everton?

Stones has a lot to learn. Remember, not many players have left us for Man City and gone on to greatness.

You can see it to an extent with Barkley too, pre-England I felt he was more raw and fearless running at the opposition and doing some tracking back. Since then, he seems to have developed what I call the England trot, where he canters about the pitch looking like a thoroughbred but often safely away from the action.

Appreciate this could be going a bit far and seeing things that aren't there but I do believe the England set-up is in some ways toxic and seems to turn the head of young players, making them think they have somehow made it and are special... Obviously contrary to performances on the pitch.

It can't be a total coincidence that the likes of Sterling, Stones, Hart and others seem to turn from raw talents into Bertie Big Bollocks overnight?

Be interesting to see if Big Sam can change things – his initial selection is pretty underwhelming.

He will disappear into Man City reserves eventually. Young English players are over-hyped and rarely realise their potential. He will join that list. Good footballer but a poor defender.

He doesn't have to rip his ex manager who he performed just as shit as. What a cheeky little prick!

He's being asked questions and is giving similar opinions to those spouted on here for the last two years. And the problem is...?

He's moved on, so should we.

We have seen it over and over with Raheem Sterling being the latest example.

I hope that he is a little more restrained with his opinions in future, the media will have him on a plate if things go badly for him.

Now being a starter for England and Man City means he will have the spotlight on him to a much greater degree than in the past two years at media-shunned Everton.

The row Z thing is bollocks we all know that, He is just trying to paint over his past inadequacies by blaming Martinez for them.

The team won't miss him; his 'calm down' gesture to us left me seething and I have disliked him ever since.

£47.5 million, good money for a liability.

He couldn't have learned the self-same thing from one of the best footballing defenders the world has seen?

'Once Joe Hart spoke to me, I had to leave for City?' Done Joe Hart a lot of good hasn't it!

Young John is simply showing at every turn how naïve/immature he still is.

Very good footballer. Average defender. Good business for Everton.

Wiped his arse on the grass and carried on.

Don't believe me?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2R1QABw5v_w

IMO he was just another over-hyped mercenary who dedicated a whole season trying to manufacture a move away to one of our rivals.

Having achieved this he should now concentrate his efforts on changing the word 'potential', that is still the most associated with his name and trying to justify a silly fee.

We are well rid of this overrated gobshite and I wish him all the very worst for his career down the M62.

He'll be mostly remembered for cowardly bailing out of a derby with a fucking stomach upset when we were having a nightmare and had no other defenders.

I suspect we now have one of the best managers in the world, who hopefully turns out to be the best. This season will be very interesting.

Arrogant little boy, delighted he's gone, we're better than him.

He was starting many games and it was his own shortcomings that affected his teammates and the fans. He has an air of overconfidence that is dangerous for a central defender and until he eradicates that he will occasionally be a liability.

From an England standpoint I hope he becomes a lot better than he already is but I am also glad he has moved on.

Our other centre-back completely bottled it, making a tackle right in front of the referee which he knew would get him a red ... now that is a shithouse.

I'm staggered by the ignorance on here "first time a player has been taken off with an upset stomach" You could not make that up.

Most wont even start if they've got the wildies... ask big bad Dunc.

But he was subbed because he was shite; the dodgy tummy was his manager attempting to deflect attention away from his (and Everton's) appalling form.

He has repaid said manager with the nonsense quoted in the above article. Now that does take 'proper balls'.

He gave it a go because we had no centre-halves. He was ill before the game, he was late out for the second half because he was in the shithouse, and it was him who signalled to Martinez that he was unfit to continue.

Clearly he didn't just need one crap: "Jog off for tactical excretion then jog back on again." Yeah, that'll sort it.

Garbage as before - you know about as much as I do regarding that humiliating match but fact remains he was awful before and after so put your spin on that.

45,000 people saw him come out late for the second half so did Millions of viewers; they also saw him signal that he wasn't able to continue. I clearly do know more than you about that match.

I don't need to put a spin on it. Just ask the top two managers in Europe, both were prepared to pay more than anybody has ever paid for an Everton player. so I guess you are right... He must be shite.

Back to that Darren, since that is my objection with your post; calling his appearance at Anfield 'proper balls'. That is proper balls. And shite. And whatever choice analogy we move onto subject to Colin's approval.

It takes balls to go out in front of millions of viewers knowing your arse is hanging out.

For what it's worth, he is a better defensive midfielder than a central defender. Maybe Pep can coach him to jump and win headers. I can't wait to see Rom and Bol tearing strips off him.

Darren, you've pulled me up on precisely nothing. I still think your assertion the lad showed 'proper balls' is garbage. If he did, I'd rather he hadn't given how awful he was that night. And then to come off at his own behest; yeah, proper ballsy that.

That match was the absolute nadir in my time as a fan – worse than the same result a couple of years before. There wasn't a player from that team who emerged with any glory but you want to attribute some to that want-away stain? That is the essence of making up shite, as if you fondly imagine he was all blood and thunder, telling Bobby to just try and stop him so help him God.

Is it too much to ask, if you are going to be a hero, at least act heroic? Awful performance on the night. I'd wager he was told to play but wouldn't want to be accused of making up shite obviously.

Horses for courses I would say, Darren. I sadly suppose your incredibly meagre expectations of what constitutes 'proper balls for the fight' is a result of seeing so little of it from the players over the last few years.

I think what annoyed most of us was him not giving Koeman the chance to improve his obvious talents by insisting on his move to Man City, à la Sterling.

I will be giving him the once over again today for England to see how he copes with the Slav hard men who don't take prisoners. I see big Sam has snubbed Jags for the game... surprise, surprise.

Says everything really

He has a lot to learn but he is the best young player to leave Everton since Rooney and we all know what a mistake that was!

To the people stating they would rather have Williams, all I can say is, unlike Stones, he wasn't even playing in the Premier League when he was 21/22 years old, it takes times to become a top central defender, which Williams is now; however, Stones is clearly well ahead of the learning curve.

I can't see him turning out like Rodwell. Barring injury, Stones will go on to have a great career for club and country and, in my opinion, has the potential to become one of the top 5 players in the world – he really is that good!

Thought not.

I've already told you why I think he showed balls for the fight – he knew we were struggling for central defenders; he also knew he was in no fit state to play, but he stood up to be counted.

Anybody in their right mind would rather take a chance of playing with a knock than playing with a severe case of the wildies. You spouted off without knowing what you were talking about and now you are trying to justify it.

I've seen people refusing about leaving the house when they were shitting through the eye of a needle. Would you have stepped up in front of 45,000 under those circumstances?

Of course you would. Talk – as you have clearly demonstrated here – is very cheap.

And in light of that infamous game (where I clearly stated there wasn't a player from that team who emerged with any glory and you took it to mean I wished to point the finger at the only guy who had a legitimate excuse – utter drivel but I won't bang on about it, eh Darren) – the claim that Stones showed 'proper balls for the fight' is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read on TW.

But credit where it is due, it takes proper balls to maintain your position. We can probably agree on that.

I've posted many (many) times but I'll sit down with any Evertonian and watch the last two seasons'... erm, erm... highlights, and concentrate on the 100+ goals conceded and the numerous examples of total chaos at the back.

And just see the amount of times Stones was out of position or not picking men up or not reading a situation. Everyone concentrates on Stones overplaying, but IMO it was his positioning that was woeful – oh and zero organisational skills, still he's only a youg'un, so that can only get better can't it??

You completely fabricated the claim that Martinez pulled off his one remaining centre-back... we all saw the game, lad.

You have admitted you don't know what happened, don't assume the rest of us weren't watching.

As for Williams, most Evertonians think he is a better option now as a defensive centre-back than John Stones who is still making mistakes that he shouldn't – the important word here is 'now'. Williams will do me for the next two or three seasons rather than Stones, but good luck to John.

He will (or should) have a great career, and we did well out of him and bought three good players with the money we got for him.

And frankly 'made up shite' isn't nearly as stupid as some opinions or I would have pulled you up on your own 'completely fabricated claim' that our other centre-half bottled the occasion to get deliberately shown a red. Like I said, you know about as much as I do regarding this.

It is clear you are an ardent fan but Stones displayed nothing approaching balls that night even if he did make it onto the pitch (until the 3rd goal).

Peace and love as always though.

"I really enjoyed my time at Everton and am really grateful for taking the chance on me! Unfortunately my form dipped under Roberto towards the end, like a lot of the players, so a move to City was a great opportunity to restart my career. Although I wish Everton well!"

Then it would be a non-story!!! Even if he didn't mean it, it wouldn't have killed him and would have been a bit more classy and respectful!

A top class player looking out for number one; have a good career, young man.

Let it go! No further interest this end.

I pulled you up on your fabrication BEFORE, I praised Stones for having the balls to give it a go... not sure how even you can think it was an attempt to deflect.

If the other centre-half thought he would get away with that tackle just in front of the referee, then he would be stupid enough to think everyone else was born yesterday... remind you of anyone?

Sleight of hand isn't your thing mate. If you didn't see something, give it a wide berth, because there will always be people on here who did.

Yeah, right, John.

Having said that I'm going to contradict myself just this once and say to Colin Glasser, I know you enjoy watching him play, Col, and there were a few instances in the England game where he carried the ball out well, better than some of the midfielders tbh... but! there were three instances where he failed in his primary duty (defending) which could, and would, have been punished had we been playing against a decent side.

There was one where he was dragged way out of position for a low hard cross/shot that England narrowly escaped from conceding.

There was another towards the wing where he lost it in the air and let it bounce and had to foul the attacker and concede a free kick in a very dangerous position.

The other one was where he did what he did a lot at Everton, which was be unaware of "his" runner into the box and watch an inferior player breeze past him as he was caught flat footed and napping. Better players will punish him for that.

Super critical? Maybe.

Done with talking about him now? Definitely.

But pulling me up on the fabrication. BEFORE? (both guilty if you want to call it that) Saying I'm attempting 'sleight if hand' mate? Well, I'll leave it to the good readers of TW to decide which post came first; 101 and 102 (hint, hint; I reference your post in my very first line).

But hey, the lad is history and I am back at work. But it's been fun.

Lakaku talking about Everton showing him respect and letting him leave when a big club want him.

Respect? How about respecting your contract, a contract offered to you when nobody else came in for you.

Juventus? Bollocks, I say. He's here because there were NO suitable offers. Yeh they may have wanted him and offered 㾶m for all we know.

The more he talks, the more I think he's a knobhead!

Jags was never going to play..

Funny, I thought he was a Triumph. Looks sporty but leaks a lot and breaks down often and never reaches the performance level that one would hope for.

Regards the Row Z approach, it's all very well the crowd telling him, but if the manager is saying "Play the ball out, don't boot it out," he would be doing the right thing. Following the instructions his boss gave him.

Imagine, a dodgy ball comes in, he just smashes it out, we cheer. He gets back in to the changing room and gets a dressing down: "That's not the way we play, son".

Not defending his comments, but he is a 22-year-old lad, and I know I spouted all kinds of nonsense at his age.

He was offered a great opportunity and took it. Why should we begrudge that? We were well recompensed. Good luck to the boy, he has a great future ahead of him.

His comments come across as arrogant – he won't get the time or molly-coddling Martinez approach at Man City – he will have to produce (and keep on producing from day one).

Glad he's gone, and for a good price too; he was bad for morale. Shame Lukaku didn't go too. (Another morale booster... NOT!)

My comment was an opinion, one born out of knowing the facts. Yours was mindless criticism born but of dislike for the player; by you own admission, you don't know what happened.

My response to you was made AFTER your personal attack on me. I have never heard of you before that.

I (as somebody who saw the incident) gave my opinion. I don't care whether you agree with it. You have since admitted that you don't know what happened. The fact that Stones told a few home truths about Martinez seems to have irked you. Your attempts to portray Martinez as a victim are pathetic.

Stones showed courage to go out for that second half. Only a rare form of stupid could know the facts and still deny it.

Last word? be my guest; I've posted mine.

I guess we can all read into it what we want but I don't see Stones as being bad for morale. Of course, I don't know this for certain. Just a gut feeling. Appreciate that he was angling for a move at the beginning of last season and seemed to be getting more frustrated the longer last season went on. Can't blame him for that and wanting a move away.

Whilst I am pleased he's gone as I feel we need a more no-nonsense defender at the moment it saddens me that he doesn't seem to want to acknowledge his time at Everton in a more positive light.

I guess he was the 'right kind of player' for us, the type of player/person who could play what we perceive to be the Everton way. But at the club at the wrong time. Had he come through the ranks and on the verge of our first team now under Koeman, things could have been different.

So let's get behind Holgate and the other youngsters and give them reasons not to want to leave..ever... :)

I also hope that Stones gets a warm reception when he returns to the club and then gets taken off after having made 3 mistakes!

Oh wait...

First off, the great centre halves were top defensive players first and foremost – this lad isn't. He can look the part when his composed elegance comes off but he looks an idiot when it doesn't. Great centre halves didn't need a manager to tell them when to hoof it.

He played it well staying quiet for so long but he's ruined it now. Is he now trying to say that the Everton fans were right to tell him to get rid in the 90th minute against Spurs? If so, why did he tell us to calm down?

I look forward to watching him cost Man City points, and see how cocky he is then,

City were incredibly lucky not to concede at least three as a result of their tactics and players against United. Does it just not work in England?