Koeman talks up Lukaku's future... away from Everton

Has Koeman taken over the role of Lukaku's dad?

Is he even aware of the sensibilities of the fans of our club?

Unbelievable comment unless he wants money for January and is prepared to sacrifice our top and only goal scorer.

Osman and Hibbert were the first victims of the new non-sentimental EFC. Today the fans became victims too of this new way of running our club.

Ronald – what the hell are you on about? You should be saying he can achieve EVERYTHING at our club.

Any goodwill with the fans is being eroded with comments like this.

I would support sacking Koeman for saying this.

Hardly the way to go about building a team over a three-year project if you are talking your best player out of the club.

Right or wrong in his assessment, his job is to do all he can to keep our best players at the club, not talk of them leaving to improve themselves. Shows just how much Koeman rates us. If Martinez had said this, we'd have been screaming for his head.

I've seriously gone right off Koeman. He's not an Everton manager in my book, just a highly paid mercenary who doesn't give a shit about us.

It will be very difficult to bring quality players to Goodison if the Manager himself doesn't believe in the project.

And having watched Lukaku's MotM performance on Saturday against Chelsea, I'm bracing myself for a massive bid from Barca in January.

If this is true, I have just developed a really bad taste in my mouth over Mr Koeman.

Gun. Foot. Shot.

He shows zero respect for us with this comment. He sees us as a stepping stone so is probably okay with players doing the same.

An Everton manager should be proud of his position... just like an Everton striker should be of the shirt. I wasn't keen on him at the beginning and I'm not keen on him now even more. Koeman Out! He should be sacked for disrespect.

٤M a year?? His job is to take his money, do his job... fire up the team. And his job should be to make us Champions again. What a prick.

And quit with the "Everton" – it's "we" or "us". Pathetic

I have not been easy with how Ron conducts his interviews – instead off saying "We did not play well," it's "Everton did not play well"? It's like he is on a TV panel as a guest. Unless he has forgotten, he is the manager of Everton Football Club which, Ronnie, is one of the oldest and greatest in the world ffs.

This bigging up Lukaku and saying he should move to a BIGGER club like Barcelona seems very disrespectful to Everton FC, all Blues, and the main man who has just bigged Ronnie up, Mr Moshiri.

Jesus, we have Roy Keane and the fat Spanish waiter putting the boot in and now our own manager does the same – so IMO, that's it for me, he can piss off to Barca asap.

''Koeman is just getting this out there before the player himself spouts off his usual shite when on international duty.''

As opposed to simply telling Lukaku to be very savvy in how he answers any questions about his future at club level?

How detached can a manager get?

Is it just me or is it becoming more and more evident that he just doesn't want to be here?

I can't see any basis to say this is a "Lost in Translation" moment, or a slip of the tongue. What did Moshiri say "Ronald Koeman – he does what he wants"? Well he can do what he wants but he has to show some level of respect towards his employers and most of all us the fans – if he can't or is unable to do that, he should leave ASAP.

Saying this at any time would be ill-advised; saying it after a particularly heavy defeat where Koeman himself made some questionable decisions is unbelievable. I do hope that Rom scores a few before the transfer window opens, otherwise the Goodison gallery will once again become a toxic place for the manager and team to play in front of. I wonder what that great Evertonian Bill Kenwright thinks of the manager undermining his club?

I'll be so glad to see the back of 2016 – it's what Her Majesty might call an annus horribilis.

Let's be honest, why would Lukaku stay with Everton if a Champions League club come chasing with the money? Our new shareholder has shown he could be just another Bill Kenwright in disguise – all talk no action – put your money where your mouth is, I say, or give over. The money we haven't spent is sure to impress our star striker, if I was him, I would be fecked off.

Either Koeman knows something we don't (like he won't sign a new contract) or he knows that the club want the money for this new stadium and are not prepared to take a chance for his contract to run under 2 years remaining.

Moshiri will not be impressed by this, I would imagine. Sorry to say the RS have a manager who is bought into a project, no springboard mentality there.

Three things are certain though:

1. Rom will never play for Barcelona. Not good enough now and won't ever be.

2. At this time, Koeman is not good enough to manage Barcelona.

3. Unless Koeman does great things with us, he's fucked for getting anywhere else.

There is nowt in this story. It's all guff designed at get Romelu Lukaku thinking he's gonna get the big ticket out of here. It's a carrott.

For all of Martinez's overly positive waffle, he would never be of the mindset that a player is too good for us; we might as well throw the towel in if that's his way of thinking. Unforgivable.

I hope to god Koeman and Walsh frame themselves better next time in the transfer market as well. We dodged some major bullets with Sissoko, Kone and that average Italian striker we tried to sign from Napoli. Add to this 㿈 million for the erratic winger that is Bolasie, and it's safe to say Koeman's performance in player recruitment is nothing short of a shambles.

Very clever, Ronald; far too clever for some on this site, unfortunately.

"Romelu will not have made the most of his career if he plays for Everton for the remainder of his career."

That to me says that, no matter how much we all want it, Everton FC in the manager's opinion, will never be big enough to retain players of Rom's calibre!

Hardly going to sway other players of good ability to join the club is it?

He has also referred to Everton as a big club on many occasions and said that he is aware of our achievements when he was coming up as a player. He has also paid tribute to the club's support on a number of occasions.

He involves himself in EitC events also, so to say he doesn't 'get us' is not really true. Let's sack him though cos he's shit now!!

Regarding Lukaku, whatever way you cut it, he is one of Europe's top strikers because his goal record backs him up. People need to get used to that fact.

You need to see that Koeman is trying to motivate Rom and he's not degraded our club at all. It's a matter of opinion but I'm with Gordon all day long.

You're right – it's far too clever for me. There seems to be a lot of this sort of thing going on in most arenas, whether it be sport, politics or economics.

A person is quoted as saying "X" or is heard as saying "X" and for some reason we all have to turn it on its head and decide that's not what is meant but some hidden message that is so nuanced it is beyond the comprehension of most observers apart from those who have some sort of psychic ability to know what the text actually means.

I state that "I don't like Apples" but via this mysterious psychic ability the statement actually means "I declare my love of Oranges"?

I would be careful admitting to the 14 lines / 5 lines thing – Gordon @ 50 may insult your intelligence for not being to be able to write with clarity and brevity!

Not sure he'd be pleased if Moshiri had said something like Koeman was the best manager we could get at the moment but ,once we've got a new stadium and a few better players, we will look to bring in a coach with a better track record of winning trophies!

It's pretty well accepted that Lukaku is going to leave, it's just a bit unusual for our current manager to pave the way for his star player to leave so easily.

Moshiri isn't daft he"ll know that this squad isn't good enough, he doesn't need to be publicly told like this.

He may have been asked various questions about Lukaku's future, and answered them truthfully. Years of bullshit have made many ToffeeWebbers a little sensitive.

Half of the people on here have been slagging off our goal machine, and now are outraged at the "shock" that he might actually leave at the end of the season! Funny, I thought Lukaku was giving us another year.

Oh, he is ...this season. We put a whacking big price tag on him in the summer, and scared off all of the suitors.

We won't be scaring them off next summer, so let's hope he carries on scoring and brings in a good fee.

As for Koeman, come on folks! He isn't here for the club tie, he's here for the money, and if he is successful, he will go somewhere bigger, like Lukaku.

Carry on, Ron.

This, Mr Koeman will turn out to be an early suicide note in your relationship with Everton fans. His appearance at the Swansea game and the crowd's reaction will be interesting.

Koeman's task is to motivate Lukaku into scoring goals in order to generate interest and a huge sale.

Isn't it to motivate Lukaku into scoring goals in order to help us win silverware?

Lukaku is essentially an old-fashioned centre-forward; he is not very adaptable (barring that 3-0 win v Arsenal when he played as on the right side, with Naismith through the middle) so offers little versatility to the manager. Rebuilding without him might be easier than trying to build a team around him.

We also do not really have the option of playing a successful high-press because Lukaku seems to lack the energy, stamina and hunger to play his part, so the team is significantly hamstrung by that.

I think it's possible that Koeman is being quite cute. He's blowing smoke up Lukaku's arse, wafting that smoke out into the world, and while some people here might think he is setting fire to our club (and he might be), I think he could be sending out a smoke signal to Moshiri and Kenwright that holding onto our best players like Lukaku (and Stones) is never going to be possible unless they find a way of taking the club infrastructure up a level.

What the fuck you been watching, Ronald?

Lukaku is only 23, and can play at a higher level – the Champions League is of course what he, his dad, his agent and now Koeman are talking about – for a top European club. So what? Players come & go at all clubs, and Lukaku is no different.

Koeman is an honest man and, when asked a question, will give an honest answer – I'd rather have that then Martinez warbling on about some nonsensical shite every week.

One day, Lukaku will leave Everton – big deal.

Since Stones has gone and Lukaku is going, Everton now need a whole new team. Unless of course, Everton want to finish near the bottom and get relegated. Because without Lukaku's goals, that's where Everton are heading; this season is turning out to be worse than last.

You may have a point that he's simply "telling it how it is," but – and it's a big BUT – it neither makes sense, nor makes for a good relationship with the club's supporters to speak so openly, candidly, bluntly whatever.

The man's paid a kings ransom and represents this club and he should consider the effect of his words on the people who pay good money to support the club. I don't always buy into the "Oh it's the Dutch way" to be straight talking and frank.

If you feel he did no harm then next time you're in the company of your bosses wife (say at a Christmas do or whatever), see what effect it has if you happen to be truthful and tell him she looks like a pig with lipstick (provided of course that she's not a real honey or anything).

Get my point though? It's one thing to know something, it's quite another to say it out loud in public!

Koeman wants his forwards to press the opposition which is obviously not Rom's cup of tea.

So the manager may just be bigging him up to get a nice transfer fee sorted and get a replacement in.

Not the right way to go about it though.

Davy Unsworth should have got the job. We are only a stepping stone for our present manager.

Please explain the benefits at this time in keeping hold of Lukaku?

We've actually got more chance of winning silverware without him as opposed to keeping him in a relatively crap side.

We sold John Stones recently — does anyone miss him?

Sorry, you are the manager. It's your team and my club. After Chelsea on Saturday, his post-match interview gave me the impression, "Well, we are Everton, what do you expect?"

Lukaku for Barcelona? Let's get rid of Lukaku next summer. I'm tired of players and our manager treating us as a small club. Pull your finger out, Mr Koeman, or get out!!

Does anyone believe Lukaku will be here beyond his current contract? I don't. So big him up while he's here and play to his ego. Hopefully get another 10% effort out of him.

Of course he's an employee of the club, but he's not just any employee, is he? He's the most important employee.

The manager.

The guy paid being paid a fortune to improve the club's on-pitch fortunes, to act as a figurehead, to bring in better players, and to try to retain those who are already there.

He shouldn't need to have a 'special affinity' to recognise it would be shooting both himself and his paymasters in the foot to basically say any player who sees out their career at Everton can be considered a fucking flop.

If this is how he talks about the club in public, what lure does he attach to the end of his line when he's looking to attract new signings to the club?

"Oh, come on. It's not like I'm asking you to stick around forever. Just put up with it for a few years. Simply close your eyes and think of it the same way as a 'just got his hole' scrote with a hair trigger might think of that fat lass in his class who'll let you do absolutely anything if you chuck her a kebab. Bit of non-demanding, dog rough practice before moving onto better things."

Not the right way to go about it though."

Yes, Jay, 'bigging him up' like he has with Niasse so we can recoup the full £13 million wasted!

Yes, Brian, you may have been shaking your head in disbelief at my post on another thread But I'll wager I'm not the only blue shaking my head in disbelief at this statement from our new messiah today.

As for Lukaku being good enough to play for Barcelona one day... Well, don't make me laugh Barcelona's players to a man can kill a ball stone dead and possess a work ethic which is testament to their success I hardly think our so-called superstar possesses either of those qualities, do you?

He's done it for me. I can forgive his tinkering, his lack of ideas, his persistence with 'past it' players and his ignorance of our young players, but to disrespect Everton FC is beyond the pale.

Koeman is not a stupid man. He wants to do well at Everton. Where is Frank de Boer going next ? Nowhere fast. Koeman has to do well with us. He is here until such time as he does well enough for the likes of Barca to want him.

He is trying to massage Rom's already inflated ego. It's what makes him tick.

I've come to the conclusion that I am far too talented a fan to be wasting my potential with Everton and feel I have much more chance of achieving my lifelong dream of winning silverware by supporting a bigger team.

Therefore next season I will be following Man City.

I appreciate what you're saying mate, but I don't think Koeman rates the lad. I don't rate Lukaku as an all-round footballer myself and I never have.

It is possible that Koeman and Walsh have a back-up plan if they get rid of Lukaku.

So, unfortunately, the blame lies with him. Not the players. They are what they are at best, quite mediocre as last season.

We have grown used to listening to mercenary players, but loyal fans and loyal players don't need to hear it from an apparently mercenary manager.

To then use that name, in a public way, to belittle the club and help a player's profile go higher at the club's expense is dumb at best, arrogant and unprofessional at worst.

If we are really small or not is absolutely irrelevant!

He's kind of now lost any edge he may have given over an Unsy or Eddie Howe. He must now be judged only on the football side... taking defensive formations to Chelsea, failing to add any new goalscorers, and giving youth no chance of breaking through are not good signs.

Peak Zlatan didn't fit in, but they covet Lukaku?? Okay, lads, whatever you say – *gives double thumbs up*

Go on then. What long-term benefits are there to be derived from Koeman's comments, Christopher?

If Koeman has belittled Everton and said this about Lukaku, then he will already have lost half the fans at Goodison and won't get them back on side.

Martinez 

Link

Koeman

Link

Unfortunately, there is no replacement for Lukaku... and if he goes, his goals go with him, and Everton may well be relegated. Because there is no one-else at the club who can score goals on a regular basis.

The killer phrase for me is 'Romelu will not have made the most of his career if he plays for Everton for the remainder of his career'. That is explicitly telling a player under contract they should leave our club to make the best of himself. That's how to play hardball in contract negotiations isn't it? Foolish stuff to say.

Koeman is in the spotlight right now but I'll stick with the Dutchman any day over that clown Martinez.

Unless you care to explain yourself and why this inexplicable belittling of the club is anything other than what it is?

And Eddie Dunn and James Marshall saying you appreciate the honesty? Er, what? Honest or not, how do these comments help the club? People have pointed out several ways they hurt it.

Last season, we suffered from having too many want-away mercenary players. This season, we've added a manager with the same attitude.

Now, if the ownership really wants to make a statement they should hold a joint press conference and force him to retract that statement. But, the damage is already done. Now I can't see the end of Koeman soon enough.

I'm sure he won't be too impressed with Koeman's comments either.

They like a high work rate in their players – as much as they like tactical nous and the ability to affect a game from their managers.

However, getting gubbed 5-0 will ensure that you won't be on Barça's "most wanted' list, but it will add your name to the "Fucked Off By Everton" list.

That's just a bit of Scouse plain speaking.

(Dat is gewoon een beetje Scouse vlakte spreken).

How in God's name did I think that Koeman was starting to sound like a money-grabbing, self-serving, over-hyped fool?

I would expect him to clarify, apologise or explain if his comments are accurately recorded. But he is a hired hand, nothing more.

If this is what he did say, it is fucking outrageous. I just do not comprehend how our manager could think such a comment was appropriate. He needs to explain himself, and if he can justify himself. I doubt that he can.

He owes the fans and the owners a sincere apology.

His coldness made him little loved at Southampton and he'll leave here with few friends and admirers. I hear he's little liked by the staff and not exactly an inspiration to the players.

I'll give him this season – if he's lucky!

In Koeman's mind he has to serve himself, his boss, his players, the media, and then us fans, in that order. Every manager recognises that. I suggest he's realised that Rom has already reached the ceiling of his ability and value and, if someone wants to pay something like twice what he's worth, then sell him. His price diminishes with every month we near the end of his contract.

Any player in the world looking to join a Premier League team with history of success in the league or Europe, will just not be salivating over joining the legend we fans call Everton. To attract the best of them we need money and, by the standards of club owners, Mr Moshiri is, through no fault of his own, merely mid-table.

And if we're going to get upset about Koeman's so-called dissing of our club, we presumably believe every badge kissing player is 100% sincere. As if!

"Don't bother worrying about Juve, Chelsea or Bayern – wait here and play a few more seasons and Barca will come knocking."

To be honest I would like to see banners, songs and the like at Swansea game telling Koeman exactly why he got this wrong. In no way shape or form is this a back handed way of motivating Lukaku, it's just a big slap in the face for us.

It probably is best that we get rid of Lukaku. We are way too reliant on his goals to the point that nobody else really chips in. Having Lineker in the team was counterproductive to the team's progress. He left and, the season after, we won the league. Rooney left and, the season after, we came 4th.

Lukaku can probably do well somewhere (if anybody will buy him) whereby he is not the top dog, but here he goes through the motions a lot of the time because he is top dog. Just not good for the team. We will probably prosper without him, finally make Everton a team again. As for Koeman, well he is going to have to do a lot to win over the fans after this huge gaff.

It's an appalling thing for the manager of our club to be saying.

I'm not blaming Lukaku for that, but also don't think that he's a very good footballer. Can't argue with his goal record but, other than a 10-minute cameo now and again, he's not a player I really enjoy watching.

A really silly thing to say off Koeman though, and I would hope that both Don @125 and Andrew @72, have called this right, because these comments are going to make his job a lot harder than it already is.

Is our manager actually touting our players to other team???

Koeman's refreshing honesty is now getting daft.

However I quite like his comments. I think he is basically talking Lukaku up. Hoping to raise as much money with a view to selling him high. Get one, possibly two players in who perhaps fit Koeman's style of play.

I have never been too impressed with Romelu. I love the fact that he came to us. I appreciate his goals. But I don't believe he is as good as he is made out to be. I am still not convinced he can hold the ball up or control it consistently.

We would probably miss him if he left but perhaps having other forwards who can offer more in their all-round play and who may help bring other players into the game may also lead to the team offering more of an attacking threat and the goals would be spread out amongst the squad.

So I think it's clever stuff from Koeman. Although, as said first line, a bit strange.

Koeman is doing several things at once; poster #41 rightly pointed out that Lukaku, despite the goals, either can't or won't fit into the style of play Koeman wants.

So Koeman is inflating both Rom's ego and alerting clubs to his availability. I'd suggest that's what he is trying to achieve.

More darkly, Koeman has found the squad he inherited extremely limited when trying to get them to play his way. He could be just plotting his exit, fanciful? Perhaps not... To my mind, if the performances continue to tank, Koeman won't hang around.

I hope Everton already have a short list of alternatives .

These comments don't help to change my opinion that we should have left him where he was because we needed to find a manager, like De Boer, who actually wanted the job.

He's the manager, he's paid to do what's best for his employers, not insult the company.
He's shot himself in both feet, in my opinion, and will do very well to win Evertonians over in the future.

I am biased because It will not upset me when he goes, I want him to score every game, the more he scores the bigger the transfer fee we will get when he goes, and Lukaku can't wait to get himself away from Everton. My only hope is, when he does go, all the transfer fee will be spent on incoming players.

He didn't seem too keen on the job in the first place, saw his second holiday as more important than getting stuck into the job, and his ignoring of youth in favour of players who are either past it or not up to the job is disappointing to say the least.

If this is really him being clever then someone needs to have a word and tell him that he needs to show that he cares about the club before he totally alienates himself from the fans and the players because, once that happens, he must be on his way.

I was prepared to give him a year based on the the need to shape a team, but knowing the gap above is ever increasing, not much more. Clear progress would certainly extend his probation.

Already the performances of our team have caused me to rethink radically as too much has already indicated serious issues.

The remarks have hardened that train of thought and there are only a few straws left on that camel's back before I call time on him.

You are in a massive hole, Ronald, hope you have a ladder, mate!

That is NOT how I want my club manager referring to our club or talking about arguably our biggest playing asset.

But before commenting, I thought I'd track down the original article in the quoted Belgium newspaper and translate from the Dutch. Here's the link, for anyone interested:

Link

Perhaps our resident Dutch correspondent Eric Dols can help out here, but I'm now leaning towards a particularly slant being mistakenly given to a snippet in a wide-ranging interview given by Koeman on the eve of the Holland-Belgium clash.

Apparently, the interview was given partly in his role as ambassador for some anti-smoking campaign Koeman fulfils. He talks of a breast cancer scare for his own chain smoking wife and his former coach and friend Johan Cryuff who was a big chain smoker.

They talk about the upcoming match a wee bit, then more specifically about Lukaku. He speaks glowingly about Romelu's qualities, but also that he wants more from him, in terms of pressing from the front and being a better penalty-box striker. Koeman adds Lukaku is still young, so you can't expect him to be a "10" in all aspects of his game, but as a coach, Lukaku is one of the best he has worked with.

Koeman is then asked "Can you compare him favourable with previous great Dutch strikers from your generation. For example, he is the same build as Patrick Kluivert."

Koeman replies: "I think so. Kluivert was a similar type of striker and also quite young when he broke onto the scene. Kluivert had a fantastic career, eventually playing for Barcelona, ​​which could happen with Lukaku."

Nothing too extreme IMO, in answer to the question.

Koeman is then asked: "Last summer Lukaku actually wanted to make a step up from Everton. How can you continue to convince him to stay?"

Koeman replied: "I told him honestly how I see his role at Everton. He started training late after the European Championships, but I gave him confidence and he has himself recognized that it was good for his development to play another year at Everton. There is a very good contact and appreciation between us. Whatever comes after this season, no one knows."

Again, all reasonable stuff, IMO.

Next, given the previous questions, Koeman is asked a follow up question: "Everton may not be the end?"

And this is – perhaps innocently – where Koeman's response may be questioned, as it has been in this thread. He replied: "Yes. Not normally. If Romelu was to play at Everton until the end of his career, (he may not have fulfilled his full potential – my paraphrasing). His potential is greater and higher than ending his career at Everton."

Not great, I grant you, but not as black and white as portrayed in the OP either ...

In closing, RK is asked: "Lukaku was top scorer at Everton last season. How much does he want to finish the season as top scorer in the Premier League?"

Koeman replied: "He wants it very much. That would be great for him and great for Everton. Because goals bring points and win games. It works both ways. Lukaku now has seven goals in eleven games. That's a very good start, but he will have to improve on this."

On balance, having taken the trouble of reading and translating the whole article, I'm prepared to give Koeman the benefit of the doubt on this one.

We as fans obviously believe we are still a massive club, but giants of the game (and Koeman certainly is) don't view us in the same manner as the big clubs whether we like it or not. We've won fuck all for a generation and play in a dump of a ground. Anyone outside the club views us as a relic of days gone by.

He is clearly here because of the ٤m salary on offer, but he's not the type of man to wax lyrical about us like Martinez or even Moyes – managers who played at lower levels and couldn't believe their luck when they came to a club like Everton.

We need to admit where we are in the game, and it's a mid-table club with hopefully a bright future. The 'sentimental drunk in the corner' routine only holds us back. We were big – once. It hurts to admit it.

I have said before the only managers that have ever won anything have been ex blues so lets get David "Rhino" Unsworth in charge now a tell Koeman to do one.

On this one I can see no reason why Koeman, as Everton manager, has made this statement and find it inexcusable. The fact that we've just been embarrassed by an inept display at the weekend makes it even more incomprehensible that Koeman should say these things.

Extremely disappointing and he has put himself in a very difficult situation.

I know he can be lazy at times, but the facts are there that he is one of the top strikers in the Premier League and with his age and his goal record he is going to be heavily sort after in the summer. Somebody is going to have to pay through there nose to get him, but if he does go, it's going to leave a massive hole in our side

As for being people saying Koeman is being cold and belittling the club, I think people are reading too much into how he talks about the club, the guy is a winner and even if he has a long term plan of where he wants to get to, that will only be achieved by being successful with us.

Link

He is not misquoted nor taken out of context.

PS I see Jay Wood posted while I was typing this!

Koeman an improvement? Yes... a work in progress... I think so.

Let's jump into the realms of fantasy and imagine that Everton exceeds all expectations this season and finishes top four. How would he persuade players to come to Everton, when he's already told his best player that he's too good for them?

IMO, he should have just said that Everton is good enough for Rom and that if he chooses to leave there is nothing he can do to prevent it. How does Koeman expect to build a top four club when he has set the standard so low? Plus, it's not a great example of his man management skills, how does this motivate the rest of the team?

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Lukaku will leave in the summer and, rather that join PSG or Juve etc, why not put him in the shop window to the best; if his play was to attract Barcelona's attention then he would be another notch up.

Nothing to see here... any potential transfer targets, move along now. (Unless of course they'll give you ٤ mill a year.)

The man is clearly on drugs.

Christ I can only imagine what would happen if the manager of Liverpool said something like this, they'd be marching on the stadium before the papers were even done printing. But here at little old Everton, we have people trying to say it's smart, he's just motivating him. Yeah, OK. As a supporter base we have now lost all credibility to go after any media for saying we're a small club, because that's how we act.

Rom must adapt to Koeman's style yet I do not believe he has the complement of skills needed to do this.

In such circumstances one of them has to go and sadly it must be Rom.

Faced with that inevitable outcome, it is Koeman's duty to garner the highest possible return. To say Rom is not suitable would have the opposite effect.

Alexi Sanchez had to leave Barca to get regular football, for fuck's sake!

I was a big fan of Koeman, thought he was the best man for the job in the summer. Not 100% convinced now. Could be a case of wrong manager for the players we have, he's trying, I think this is a slow burn, the man needs time to get his players in and get them playing to his way. He is a winner though and could be the perfect antidote to Martinez. I was hoping for better by now, it just hasn't lit up as I hoped it would but it's still early days.

To argue with my own optimism, Southampton were in good shape because of Pochettino, Ron done a great job after the initial sell-off when he arrived there, but then Ron's record at Valencia was not that good and he didn't last long there (same for Gary Neville).

I'm hoping for the best. I think Moshiri, Walsh and Koeman, if given the time, (results like Chelsea really hurt) could turn this round. I think Martinez and his back room team left an absolute shambles behind them and this should take time to fix eventually.

Although it took Joe Royle less than 2 weeks to instantly set in motion the turnaround from the mess left by Mike Walker. I believe that involved double training sessions working a lot on fitness, shape and tactics initially, setting out a tough-to-beat hard working side with pride and characters in it, it quickly lead to an FA Cup in that very same season. Our current lot don't have that fire in their bellies that The Dogs of War had.

Your comments Ron, far from impressed, but thanks to Jay Wood for his submission, because I was starting to doubt and think that maybe we should have got Eddie Howe in instead.

I think a lot of managers have all been there, made the move with the best intentions, took a good look around, gave it their best shot, but felt frustration that, no matter what they do, it just doesn't seem to work out as hoped due to those at their disposal not doing what they should. I think there's been plenty of manager's that has applied to at certain times of their career.

Give Ron time and let's hope for the best. ٤m a year in wages, after this gaff, straight after the Chelsea result, time's not on your side Ron... just say we and buy into the Everton Way. Show a bit love for the club and see how you will be revered as a result.

File this under foot and shoot, regardless of whether he meant it or was 'being clever'.

Keep up, man!

This is enough to make me seriously apoplectic: "If Romelu was to play at Everton until the end of his career, I know he has left something (behind). His potential is greater and higher than Everton, as a final destination."

I remember the anger levelled at Benitez for disrespecting our club, but to some on here, it's acceptable for OUR manager to do it; strange coming from a man who allegedly shuns the media.

And if Benitez was critical of us parking buses, then Koeman took a whole fleet to the 'Bridge', but forgot to put the handbrakes on... embarrasing week to be a Blue indeed.

I think I prefer the soap opera of Everton than actually watching them play.

I think Koeman is a top coach, but this is not what an Everton manager says, ever.

Martinez actually dealt with these issues much better than this, for all of his faults.

Moshiri's about-face on Sissoko and McCarthy, and now this!

Ron needs him this season and he kept him. Good move. The more money we get for him, the more we can spend on a replacement striker.

I like Ronald Koeman. He is his own man, tells it like he sees it and is ruthless. Settle down boys. At the weekend we saw how much we need to change. I'm backing Ruthless Ronnie.

There is no hidden cryptic message here. Just utter contempt from a man who clearly thinks the only thing about our club that is good enough for him, is the majority shareholder's money.

Why do we go out of our way to pay top wages for second-rate managers who think they are better than they are?

If we are too small for you, Koeman, have some pride and dignity... fuck off.

See how many "big clubs" come knocking. They'll be queuing around the fucking block after Saturday's masterclass.

To do that we'll need more money than Mr Moshiri currently has, and we'll need it NOW if Koeman is to meet the remit he accepted when he took over (cue howls of anguish if some daft bugger pays our valuation of Rom but we replace him with a player costing half as much).

Koeman is in a win-win situation in that he's got licence to do what he wants, how he wants, for three years. He'll take devoted support from the fans for granted because that's what all top end EPL managers do and have done from its start, and for decades earlier too.

I'm sick of the likes of Martinez, Pardew, Moyes and other losers almost shedding a tear as they pay tribute on MotD to their club's wonderful fans after yet another thrashing.

We need to change, but we'll be lucky if we feel like we want to embrace it all the way.

I will say this only once, there is no player in the very near future who can score goals on a regular basis for Everton like Lukaku does. He does not exist for Everton, here or somewhere else.

"Er, look Rom we're playing' shit right now but we won't ever let you move on !"

" WTF Koeman, I can't give a damn any more. Just pay me and I'll turn up when I feel like it."

or

"You're a good lad Rom, with lots of prospects. Of course we'd like to keep you but, if you keep on improving, the world of soccer is your oyster."

Which do we expect would provide the right attitude from the player, week-in & week-out?

So a) Koeman can't wait to sell our ONLY goalscorer and b) Do you really think Barca or any other club are going to buy a player because the manager 'bigs him up'? Don't you think it takes months of scouting, watching videos etc before they buy players? I suppose you are the sort who buys products because of TV ads.

So this public derogation of our club by it's own manager to earn us a few more quid is acceptable then, Albert?

What a stupid idiotic statement to make on the back of a 5-0 drubbing. Unbelievable!!!!!!!

I am not condoning Koeman's comment, but I am not surprised either. My first hand experience of Dutch folk is that they tend to be quite candid in their verbal communications.

As far as Lukaku is concerned, I have not, for some time, rated him as a team player. Yes, he is unplayable when the mood strikes him but I would be very surprised if he is with us next season. He wants to play for a more successful club than Everton.

I can't however see him going in January unless Walsh cuts a swap deal for another striker and a midfield general. Actually the more I think about it I would do that deal if the right players were available. We are in a rebuilding process this season – it would be good to hit the ground running next season.

History often repeats itself – the others lot found themselves in a similar situation a few seasons ago with Suarez who was the finished article. It hasn't turned out too bad for them.

One final point – Moshiri said in his Jim White interview that Koeman "is ruthless". I reckon Moshiri is also.

He said he was going to give Everton's fans the stadium they deserve and that they had sounded the supporters feelings on this. We will get a new stadium on the waterfront and that is a huge commitment on his part.

He has a plan for the club and Lukaku leaving is not going to deflect him from it.

I am just going to keep hanging in there until the tide turns.

I honestly believe Koeman persuaded Lukaku to give us another year. If we get an offer of around 㿷 million in the summer, I would gladly cash in on him. That may or may not be from Barcelona – again, I don't really care – but no player is irreplaceable, and I think this may be Koeman's way of keeping Rom focused all season.

He's given him the carrot of being the Premier League's top scorer and suggested he could end up at Barça if he does so. What striker in his right mind wouldn't want that?!

I wish we could buy more players for 㿈 million that could be sold for 㿷 million within 3 or 4 years! Lukaku's a bit like Lineker – we may well be a better team without him as the main striker.

If Everton fans have short-term memories when it comes to Koeman's standing as a player, then the man himself has just pulled off a pretty passable impersonation of Leonard Shelby from Memento. Except, as he hasn't actually been diagnosed with anterograde amnesia (as far as we know), then Ron really shouldn't require the aid of Polaroid photos and a load of tattoos plastered over every inch of his skin to point out where he currently stands and who he is being paid to represent. 

He may privately (and perhaps correctly) think Everton, in comparison to Barca, are nothing more than minuscule winnits on the wondrous arse of their massive 50-foot woman and would be powerless to defend themselves if she were ever to attack, but there's no need to be announcing it for all to hear.

He could quite easily make the same case that Lukaku is capable of playing at the highest level, perhaps for a club as big as Barca... without hurling in the bit about him having pissed his potential away if he's still turning out for Everton at the tail end of his career.

People involved with the club were left furiously shaking their head and frothing at the mouth more than Roller Girl in Boogie Nights when Rafa Benitez rolled out his 'small club' comment, but now the guy actually employed by Everton to be boss spunks forth a similar sentiment and suddenly they're all ready to swallow rather than spit?

After the positivity from Moshiri a few days ago, this feels like a kick in the teeth. I was looking for a manager with a long-term vision with us, rather than using us as a stepping stone (which is what Lukaku appears to be doing) – suddenly those early years of Moyes's reign don't seem so bad. Have we lost that dressing room spirit that kept us in so many games against the odds?

What the absolute fuck – from a highly paid employee of Everton?

Wrong, wrong ,wrong. Same thing applies to Koeman as to Lukaku – the only way to prove you can operate at a supposedly higher level is to outperform where you currently are.

Not great comments straight after such an abject performance at the weekend. Plenty of top managers would jump at Everton for the compensation package alone. I'm beginning to have doubts over our new manager. Taxi for Koeman maybe?

"...the player we get to replace Rom is gonna be huge, believe me he'll be huge, nobody gets huger players than Koeman. And our defence, wait 'til you see the defenders we're gonna have. Forget opposition free-kicks, we're gonna build a wall folks and we're gonna get Klopp to pay..'

Etc.

No.

Are Everton likely to be as successful or playing at the same level as Barca during Lukaku's career?

No.

It is then reasonable to suggest that Lukaku will need to move in order to play at that level – assuming he is good enough. It is also reasonable to suggest that, if a club currently as successful as Barca comes in for Koeman, he will move just as quickly as he moved to Everton this summer. Both are professionals trying to reach the top.

Everton will move on, their success depending on their ability to make more money to spend on wages, not on employment of individual professionals.

We may have a rich history, but we haven't won jack-shit in the lifetime of any current professional footballers, so why, aside from us supporters, would anyone think we're a big club?

Big in reputation from 30 years ago, but in the modern game? Nah, sorry, the reality is that we're not, and players like Lukaku will of course leave. I agree with the manager.

I know that, you know that, the manager knows that and I suspect every journalist in Belgium knew it already.

But why in the name of God would you say it?

Jeffers, Rooney, Arteta, Stones et al! Wankers who we all have chanted from the Gwaldys Streeet... Lukaku is no different! I admit it's happened before, it will happen again!

We look resigned to losing Rom, safe to say Koeman is too! It's shit! Crack on tho, innit.

Koeman's comments are inexplicable, doesn't fill me with confidence at all... but we are Everton aren't we.

I just feel the whole club has become a tribute act to the last successful era of the '80s and past title winning teams. You cannot escape it, from charity nights to player presentations and former players popping up everywhere you look.

The players currently lucky enough to be pulling on the royal blue jersey seem to be excused from making their own history. The comments of Roy Keane brought it home for me.

If Koeman can start by bringing a few home truths to the table and in the dressing room, then I believe it will do us more good in the long term than the 'jumpers for goalposts' attitude which seems to be accepted without question.

I know a certain luvvie who won't want to lose that 'family feeling' that makes a lot of fans go weak at the knees, but it's just what's required if we want to move forward.

Do we imagine everyone else in football has failed to see what's happened to our club since the mid 1980s, for fuck's sake?

These recent comments stink, they also show us the way Koeman views us, a stepping stone at best.

There are some things in life, no matter how true they are, that should just never be said.

If it's not a misquote and it's Dutch courage/candour, then he'll have to accept a lot more straight talking from Moshiri and the fans from now on. Trounced by Chelsea. Would've been trounced by City bar Stekelenburg's heroics.

We have so much to do. We need everyone pulling in the same direction.

If I spoke like that about my employer in public, I'd be on shaky ground. I'm all for direct talking but it should be behind closed doors.

If anyone can actually suggest that this is a way of making Lukaku play better, I'm sorry but in my opinion that is deluded thinking. What message is he giving the other players and furthermore our opponents?

We berated Moyes for the taking knifes to gunfights comments. What's the difference here? From the start I questioned his interviews.

However bad Niasse is, he didn't deserve the public comments by Koeman. It showed a complete lack of respect for the player and wasn't exactly going to endear another club to him.

To me, he is arrogant. A great player, yes, but manager? Funny how him and Keane are at loggerheads. They have many similarities. Great players full of arrogance as managers with little achieved.

I also question his tactics. Starting Oviedo and Deulofeu on the same flank vs Man City. I had my doubts and, unless he clarifies his comments, I won't be changing my mind.

Whatever he thinks personally about Everton, he is still the manager with a duty to create a winning environment. Unfortunately, comments like that just create doubt among players and fans alike.

He sees Martinez gets a massive payout for failing and thinks, "Yah, that will do me."

Maybe Koeman is playing mental games to get Rom to hold out for a top top side as he is probably aware that teams like Spurs, Arsenal and so on are going to be on the look out for a top player to strengthen their Champions League run in January.

I'm still extremely disappointed that Koeman didn't worry about fans backlash, he should be thinking about us and the club's well-being 24-7 365.

A bit embarrassing, if I'm being honest.

If we hope to attract better quality players to the club, does anyone really think that pretending that Rom will be here for longer, as part of a big "project" will convince many players that they will be signing hoping to watch him pointing at parts of the pitch?

We failed to land several transfer targets because we don't have European Football/ are not seen as a top 6 club.

Many younger players and fans weren't even born when we last won the Cup, never mind the '80s.

I know a 27-year-old Saints fan who was absolutely mystified as to why Koeman left them to come to us! I obviously informed him of our history and he shut up, but it is reality.

If we consolidate our steady improvement in the league, and finish higher than last season, and make progress with plans for the new ground, then we may start to look like a more attractive destination, but we will have to be patient.

By the way, I am fucking pig-sick of these international breaks – we always all end up arguing with each other!

I don't particularly like him, has anybody warmed to him? Not too bothered if he goes.

And on Koeman, unless he does the business, he will never be allowed to forget this.

After being twatted and winning 1 in 7 he's taking the piss.

Personally I don't care what any of the players or management staff say in interviews. What I do care about is what happens on the pitch.

In regard to the latter there is much work to be done to get things right in the coming weeks. How well our manager deals with that challenge will ultimately determine how he is perceived by Moshiri and the fans.

If for example we win three of the next four games, these comments will quickly be forgotten. If however we lose three of the next four, these comments will be used as a footnote in evidence for the prosecution.

I do think Koeman will do well for us, however, even though I am a fan, he has shot himself in the foot here.

I understand he is a man who knows football inside out due to his successful past. But for man who is earning ٤ million a year to try and build Everton players, it is just pure stupidity from him.

The fans are angry as it is after that embarrassing capitulation on Saturday, our own manager comes out and says that, well that puts the cherry on top doesn't it.

He owes us one big time!!

All round, a depressing year this. I've said it before we've got too many players who think they should be playing for the world's richest clubs, when they can't even string 2 or 3 good performances in a row for us. Koeman is now falling into that category too.

I didn't like the way this team gave up on Martinez last season and I don't like the way they're playing or carrying themselves under Koeman.

Comments like this don't help.

Personally I'd clear out all our wingers and strikers and start again. The rest can stay minus Gibson and Cleverley.

This is all made much worse by the fact that the RS have a passionate manager and are playing some great football. Christ, what an awful year.

Oh wait, Realistic Ron strikes again. Not sure what he's trying to achieve by disrespecting the club to this level. Wasn't the 5-0 thumping enough?

Quite clearly – and understandably – most are casting judgement on Koeman's words based on the reductive reports that focus on a very small part of an extensive interview. And I have to say, on that basis, some of the condemnation the manager is receiving is misplaced. It is not as stark as some are making out.

The interview the quotes were lifted from was, in fact, part of a media drive to launch a new (honourable) anti-smoking campaign for which Koeman is an ambassador. Indeed, these following 2 links on the club's official site are part of the launch:

Link

Link

If people had taken the trouble to read the full original interview, they might have saved themselves some grief and chest thumping.

As it is, I now see it has become the subject of a TW poll. I won't cast a vote myself, because the framing of the question doesn't accurately reflect the context in which he was asked, or how he actually responded. Equally, the options offered in the poll are, like many posts in this thread, too black and white.

There is a middle ground one can adopt to Koeman's reported words.

[LA Galaxy v Colorado Rapids - MLS Play-off semi final]

I think the point is – regardless of intent, quoted correctly or not – Koeman is not naive, is well aware he would attract attention.

Perhaps the manager of Everton should be more mindful, but then again I believe "Koeman is Koeman, he does what he wants".

Perhaps the ToffeeWeb base might now treat Koeman with the same honesty he treats the club and the fanbase.

He won't be here long, we can afford to be judgemental.

Well, imagine every single Everton fan's hands holding on tightly to any player (Lukaku), he will in some way suffocate.

Now imagine hands cheering for him. It will lift his spirit and he will love the fans and the club back. I cheer for him and our manager, they're here, back them up, we're stronger together. COYB NSNO.

Still, a kick in the teeth to Everton fans, especially after the week we've had. The RS on the rise and us being battered by Chelsea and now our own manager... :( Sure is hard being an Evertonian.

The point made earlier, Koeman is only an employee of the club and is here for 3 years; if some advocate wants to pay his contract out, good luck. As fans we can criticize our team or players but nobody outside our suffering family has the right. Wrong!!

Koeman is an outsider to the club, but is here to do a job and will be gone in 3 years. So let him do that job and try to support him rather than believe the known liars of the press.

And did you noticed that after the Chelsea game, and I think in one other, he has covered his mouth while whispering into an opposition player's ear. All this makes me think that, like Stones, he has been promised that he'll be allowed to move, if he wishes, at the end of this season.

Given Koeman's remarks, both on Lukaku and Niasse, he may be totally honest but they are not necessarily the best thought out, most clever or intelligent statements.

So now we've got the wrong end of the stick because we didn't "take the trouble to read the full original interview" .... says who???

I bet most people did a double take when they read this and instantly investigated – if only to prove to themselves this isn't a mistake. Not many will accept Koemans betrayal simply because it was only part of a boring long winded interview.

The reason the majority (the overwhelming majority judging by the poll to the right of the page) are angry, is that they know they have been shafted by the very person brought in to change the perception that we are no longer a big club. What fucking chance have we got when the guy rubber-stamps it?

Tottenham haven't won a title for well over half a century. Does anybody believe their fans would accept this shite from their manager?

I honestly couldn't imagine things getting any worse after Martinez was fired, but we have a commander in chief who tells us we pulled out of a transfer race because we were worried we were not being fair to an existing under-performer. A manager who tells the players they would be letting themselves down f they stayed here... and fans who are looking for something deep and meaningful about being well and truly shafted.

The rest of football, joyfully led by the Gobshites, are loving this. What the fuck has happened to this club? Is there anything which can be considered unacceptable these days?

Read the last paragraph of post 191. Then read it again.

I'm guessing you may be too young to remember 1985, when we defeated Rapid Vienna 3-1 to win the European Cup Winners Cup in the year we also won the league title and were denied a historic treble by a narrow cup final defeat to Man Utd. That, for me and many others, gives us a European pedigree.

That competition was won by teams such as Barcelona, Man Utd, and many of today's other 'big names' and is certainly included in their roll of honour, ie, their European pedigree. Some time ago it may have been, but we're not the only club to have won European silverware some time ago, but there's no need to deny it happened or say it doesn't give us a European pedigree because, for me and many others who witnessed that triumph, it certainly does.

I didn't like Martinez either but at least he bought into our club history etc – just wasn't good enough to move us in right direction. Koeman couldn't be further from the club.

They are talking ambition, yet a huge majority want to see a flop like Ross Barkley playing in my team. And when he scores a goal twice in every 23 games they are ecstatic!

"I will show them ambition!"

A poor error of judgement, particularly from one in a high profile job. It'll be interesting what happens next.

Or is he a twat who should "JUST GO!!!!"

(Need to know for a tennis ball protest I'm planning...)

Pity the manager's stepped in to occupy that void. Idiot!

He was only giving it another year so why not be honest about it? This way we get him scoring for us before he goes which also puts his price up. Any longer and his contract will run down and reduce his price anyway.

The sooner he's gone from Everton, the betterk so this never ending soap opera does come to a close and we can move on as a team and club.

So why Koeman came out with that crock of shite is beyond comprehension, especially after a 5-0 humiliation.

Koeman's assessment of Lukaku seems to be way off beam anyway. Play for Barcelona? If they change their playing style completely, maybe – just maybe, but could you imagine a relatively immobile Lukaku in a Suarez, Messi, Neymar type formation – all whom interlink, control the ball instantly, and are deadly finishers? No, me neither. Crass and unnecessary comment.

Now, it seems that he's settled in nicely to "The Everton Way".

We are years, and probably 95% of a squad away from getting to the ranks of Barca, Real Madrid etc. Probably longer than Lukaku has left playing, and wanting to move to a more glamorous, and probably better paying job is simply a human trait.

If you work for Company X and a more successful and glamorous Company Y comes in offering to double your money, and a free flashy car in a trendy location who here would genuine say "Nah, I'm good here with My Skoda"?

The players are employees, and humans so aspiring to move on and up (By their perception) is natural.

The timing of the comments is appalling, and there is probably some element of 'lost in translation'.

Bigger picture, is Koeman saying "Play better if you want to move?" – just not saying it very well?

I wanted Koeman when we sacked Martinez and surely he must be well aware of the negative impact this statement will have on our fans. He has certainly endorsed why Sissoko signed for a bigger club. I wonder how he will be able to convince other players to sign for us if other clubs like Champions Leicester are in the hunt.

I think Koeman needs to clarify this statement very quickly otherwise I can see a lot of fans turning against him. And believe me he doesnt want or need that and neither does the team at present. Goodison can be a very bleak place for a manager who has lost the fans.

Moshiri has told us this week that the manager's priority is to win football matches (surprise, surprise!) and, on reflection, I believe this thread would extend to no more than a dozen posts were he on a run of success rather than a run to nowhere.

We are a fickle lot, us loyal Blues!

Providing we could bring in two or three top players, or players like Gana, diamonds waiting to be discovered; forwards, attacking midfielders, who could each chip in with 7 or 8 goals a season, thus sharing the goals around and have us not being so reliant on Lukaku. If he gets injured, we are royally stuffed.

Unfortunately for us, Lukaku's defensive contribution against Chelsea was near to zero. He has shown that he can score goals and we would find his goals hard to replace. If we are to compete in this new high octane Premier League, we can't afford that.

MotD did a piece on Costa's movement for Chelsea in the previous match. A huge contrast and he still has the strength and speed to contribute when chances arise.

I see this as another push by Koeman to get Lukaku working harder and not just talking about working harder. Offering the carrot of a move to Barcelona, if he made a decent pressing contribution when the opposition back 2 or 3 are passing about and looking for a pass. Luiz, Cahill and Azpilicueta had an armchair ride last Saturday.

At the moment, he is a million miles away from being a Barcelona player and most probably will never be. If I were Koeman, I would sit Lukaku down with footage of Suarez and Costa working off the ball and explain that this is what is needed to be a top player.

This thread has nothing to do with fans being fickle or not, it's about a manager making unnecessary comments to the press. What was to be gained by making these comments, and if your right that he wont give a stuff what the fans think then he shouldn't be managing our club.

Because if fans turn on the manager the end result is the manager gets the sack. So, if he really has aspirations of managing at Barca, I suggest he better get Everton into the top 4-6 very quickly – otherwise, his chances of managing Barca will be none.

Never going to happen as it would be disrespectful to the club.

If what Jay interprets is the true gist of the story then it seems a fair comment.

Even so, its the truth. Simple. There maybe a time when Everton do regain their status as a power house of British football, but it probably wont be during Lukaku's career. As Moshiri said the other day, it is no longer possible to do what Man City and Chelsea have done due to FFP.

For Everton to become successful the new stadium needs building and the revenue needs increasing to be able to furnish the team with players like Lukaku throughout. It ain't going to happen quick. For Rom to meet his full potential he needs to be playing in a team with the best players. RK cites Barca as the team and I would say that he has unquestionably selected the best team in Europe there.

Using Suarez as an example, he went from being a good player at Liverpool to being an outstanding one at Barca, able to hold his own in probably the best attacking trio in world football. He has better players around him for sure, but his game has also improved.

Now, as someone else has said, Rom wouldn't displace any of those guys yet, but in five years time Messi and Suarez will be approaching the latter end of their careers and Rom will be in the prime of his. In five years time will Everton be looking at bringing Neymar in to support him?

So unpleasant as it is, Koeman is correct. But if Jay is right with his translation he is also saying that he could have a successful career at Everton ..just not as successful as the one he could have if he joined a real top team. Say it as it is.

Another point on this, I know no one likes the sell to buy model, but if FFP is going to limit what the club can do in the transfer market to money brought in plus a bit more it makes sense that he will be flogged eventually. We are not going to earn 㿨 million in additional revenue anytime soon. The team need more goals throughout, and as we can all see there is no back up should Rom get injured.

If he gets sold, and Moshiri is able to bung some extra in the kitty from the TV money there is a possibility to improve the balance of the squad. If he stays its great, we have a good striker, as long as he stays fit, But all our eggs are in one basket.

Koeman is employed to elevate the club to a level that he has just admitted the club will not attain.

So... why is he still employed by the club?

"Ronald strikes me as the kind of guy who would actually tell his wife her arse looks a bit big."

(That's what I was trying to say – I wish I had have been able to put so eloquently.)

But, for me, Eddie Dunne (#218) takes the prize with this part of his post – it really put a smile on my dial.

"By the way, I am fucking pig-sick of these international breaks – we always all end up arguing with each other!"

I agree Eddie.

We all realise the fact that Lukaku may well be on the move next season but to come out with these quotes is madness. I really don't think he realises how big a club he is managing here.

He may have been a great player in his day but what a stupid prick he must be to disrespect the club and fans in such a way. Ronald has a lot of bridge building to do with the fans now as we all realise he wont be wit us for the long haul.

It wouldn't bother me either way if Moshiri sacked the stupid Dutch prick today. The guy isn't exactly setting the place on fire at the minute.

Granted this is a mainly Martinez squad and not Koeman's. But Moshiri and Kenwright must have strong words with him and tell him to keep them sort of thoughts to himself or they will terminate his contract. Over to you, Ronald, you dumb fucker...

Straight away I have concerns with the managers judgement of a player. Lukaku as we seen with Martinez needs the stick – not carrot.

Koeman was at the game last night and will have seen Lukaku swing his right peg from 6 yards and miss the ball – not for the first time we have seen the lad miss a sitter from yards out with his swinger.

This isn't about Lukaku though – this is about a man who is employed to make us great again . does devaluing the brand do that? absolutely not.

Anyone who thinks what he came out with was good old honesty needs to cast their minds back to the transfer window. Meltdowns galore all because we didn't spend 𧵎m on players – where was "our statement of intent"... Roll on a few months and all of a sudden its ok for our manager to imply we are too small to keep a player?

If you accept what Koeman has said as "honesty" then you deserve to support a club that hasn't won a trophy in over 20 years.

Me? – I would haul him over the coals for this and tell him where the door is if he isn't up to the challenge that his mega salary is supposed to justify.

They didn't put the words in his mouth, manufacture or rejig them.

That they were offered up as an answer to a question posed doesn't alter the sentiment behind, nor the sting inherent in, those words.

The fact the interview was more wide ranging than 'what will Rom do?' and part of a well intentioned 'toss the tabs away you tit' campaign is totally irrelevant.

Moyes was (rightly in my opinion) lambasted for retrospectively stating that, when Everton manager, he could never have stood in the way of any player who wanted to better themselves and basically would always do what was right for the player's career rather than the club's prospects.

Koeman has now taken it a step further by publicly telling a player he should look to move elsewhere to make the most of his career, while still in charge... scratch that... after not even being six months into "a big project" he signed up to spearhead on the basis of the club impressing him with their new "ambition" to get to the top.

Guess those many great managers who came out with crap like 'no player is bigger than the club' over the years, have all been barking up the wrong tree. They were just never blessed enough to get a good look at Lukaku. A player whose massive potential dwarfs the long history of his puny club, even though he can't prevent the ball oddly cannoning off his shin like hot gravel ricocheting off an old hag at a witch trial half the time.

"Koeman is here to do a job. So let him do that job and try to support him"? He's not even supporting himself if he's confirming it's a no-goer no sooner than it's begun.

And to illustrate Dave's excellent point, I offer some dialogue from a workplace disciplinary procedure, which I took part in some years ago ...
What follows is entirely factual, only the details have been changed.

HR Representative: "You called your Supervisor a dickhead to her face, is that correct?"
Worker: "Well, I thought that she was a dickhead and spoke honestly. I did say that she was a dickhead."
HR Representative: "Thanks for your honesty. Would you be prepared to apologise to her here and now for the offense she suffered ?"
Worker: "Yes. I am sorry that you were offended."
Supervisor: "Thank you, I accept your apology."
HR Representative: "We do understand that in the moment we cannot always control what we think. However, saying it aloud is quite different. Is that clear?"
Worker: "Yes. Yes, it is quite clear that I will always think that she is a dickhead. But I have no control over that. Thank you."

Part of me thinks he wanted to give Lukaku great praise to his own national media and wanted to compare him to Kluivert. I suppose Ron himself made the big move to Barca and that's what he wanted to say that Rom is good enough to make it there SOME DAY.

However, his Dutch insensitivity I think led him to say too much and by doing so made it sound like Everton were a small club with not much European history. I think his tendency to speak his mind too freely will lead him into awkward situations like that.

It's one thing for some of us on here to say things like Rooney & Co. were right to move on so they could forward their career as they were not going to win anything with us, but for the club's manager to say it, is a totally different thing. I hope Moshiri or even Bill was onto the phone to him asking him to explain himself.

I can confirm our owner Moshiri thinks Ronnie has done nothing wrong??? As he has apparently just texted his best friend Jim White on TalkSport and has said that it's just a manager-player thing.

White is asking what Everton fans think about managers comments; no callers yet. They should just log onto Everton forums – that will give them the answer.

It's a damn shame and he already knows this. His mentality is we're lucky to have him, so suck it up, the response from Everton should be interesting.

Also, all that talk of Lukaku to Barcelona and being too big for us, that's bollocks – he's referring to himself.

I have been very disappointed with Koeman as a manager. There has been no discernible improvement on the pitch. He publicly humiliated Barkley and now he's said Lukaku will need to move on to fulfil his potential.

I want a manager who will sell the vision of Everton becoming a great club again with an iconic stadium on the banks of the Merseyside. He needs to start using words such as 'us' and 'we' instead of 'Everton'.

The only hope is that he has to do well in order to get what he wants.

Ordinarily, this would be fine, but when it belittles our club (the club that he represents), then it's not really on. I'm absolutely fine with him bigging up Rom, saying he could go on to play for a Barcelona, but why the sly dig with the put down of Everton? Ill-advised to say the least.

To pundits, players, managers and other fans, we may not be a big club, but to our own fans, we are the only club!

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/videos/246510/fail-romelu-lukaku-misses-glaring-sitter-as-belgium-squeak-1-1-draw-against-the-netherlands-video.html

I think Barca can and no doubt will do better than sign Rom. I would also point out that Messi and Suarez are both 29 and Neymar is only 24. Still a few years in those guys yet.

Martinez pledged his undying fealty to Everton, claimed he'd fallen in love with the club and he bled blue, and he was soundly mocked.

Now people are up in arms because Koeman is approaching this as an actual job? Welcome to football. You think Pep's heart bled for Bayern Munich? He basically said "I signed a three-year contract, then see ya later."

I don't mind Koeman using us as a stepping stone one whit, if he delivers results – it's designed to be a mutually beneficial relationship. And if he lays the groundwork for success, then we can attract another top manager to build on what he left behind. That's the idea, anyway.

It's probably sacrilege to say this but what we want is a Shankly type manager. An inspirational character. Having said that, I'm not sure if that approach would work with modern multi millionaire footballers. We do need someone who believes anything is possible.

What's so sad is that because we have been in the doldrums for so long we are just regarded as a mid table club. Who never challenge for anything. We think we are a big club but no-one else does, especially anyone under the age of 40.

He talks of Lukaku leaving us, whats the solution, we need the board to take a chance for once and buy 2 or 3 special players. We would also have to pay them silly money I know, but its the only way we can attract them to Goodison at this time. We will not break out of this cycle of being second best, by buying second class players.

Maybe professionals inside the game would take us seriously if we made a very big splash in the transfer market instead of viewing us as just making up the numbers.

You never know, players such as Lukaku may even want to stay if we can positively show that we have big ambitions.

If he doesn't come up with a lot better performances than the rubbish they served up at Chelsea then he will be in trouble for the right reasons – not some alleged crap he spouted to a foreign newspaper!

The truth is, if Moshiri does everything he promises Lukaku will be in the twilight of his career before Everton can be spoken in the same breathe as the likes of Barca. What Ron can do is make wise purchases with the Lukaku money so we have a more balance squad that can legitimately be considered perennial euro contenders.

There is something about the other argument on here that we should just judge Koeman on his results. But he didn't do himself any favours. And when things get difficult on the pitch he's less likely to get an easy ride. And then dissatisfaction can rub off onto the players who will also feel under the cosh. It all does our chances of performing well no good.

It just shows Everton are no more than a stepping stone in his career. Hence the buying of over-priced ageing players that give you at least mid-table, rather than youthful players who can give you trophies.

Shows all that spiel about the Chairman making him realise what a special club this is sound (even more) like a rather patronising load of old pony.

What a silly boy.

You mean ... see it as YOU see it Jay...?

Well, if it's all right with you Jay (and others), I prefer to take a more considered approach rather than react with knee-jerk indignation to comments from public figures or information that interests me.

It's served me pretty well down the years to question the beliefs and interpretations of others on different issues and has, for example, put me in the minority that opposed Brexit and would not have voted for Trump (nor Clinton, for that matter...).

It won't be the first time and I hope it won't be the last time I find myself in the minority on an issue. And I'm quite happy and comfortable to be so. Never been one to run with the herd.

I've offered a reasoned and reasonable explanation on Koeman's words, whilst also acknowledging and understanding why and how others have reacted so vehemently to them, as was my own initial reaction before I chose to dig deepeer.

Whadya gonna do? Incite a Second Amendment whacko to shoot me?

I too have doubts about attracting the top players, but we'll tread water for ever if we don't push the boat out and try harder.

BUT, and it's a big but... He should be more professional than to even get caught out talking about this subject and going into the level of detail that would allow his statements to be taken out of context. A simple statement would have sufficed:

"Romelu is an Everton player and we've assured him that he can achieve trophies and European football with us. He's part of a very big and very exciting project and we intend him to remain a part of it."

Once again the Everton PR team prepare to fail by failing to prepare. Koeman should have gone through stringent media training as part of this new era of Everton. We do not allow ourselves to be talked down anymore.

I'm afraid I am getting more and more pissed off with what this fella has said, and it most certainly isn't a misquote / some kind of psychological gee-up for Rom or A N Other daft as funk theory that some people previous on the thread have come out with.

I also don't give two shiny shites if this is the “truth” or a fair assessment of our club currently. I do not and will never want to see or hear any Everton Manager talking us down, belittling the club, selling us short etc.! We get enough brickbats from every other gobshite out there!

Where's the man's aspiration to make us great again? What kind of message are we sending to potential new recruits? It actually beggars belief that he thinks it is acceptable to spout this shite to the press!

This is up there with, and probably worse than, the dour one's "knife to a gunfight" bollocks.

This is a massive own goal for Koeman, and I am not sure I will be able to easily forgive or forget. It will be interesting to see how he responds to questions regarding this, as he is sure to be asked, and if he can in any way redeem this sorry episode.

Is it not easier to have just said, "If the big lazy useless twonk keeps scoring the goals he will fulfil all his potential and ambitions with US at Everton!”

"Romelu will not have made the most of his career if he plays for Everton for the remainder of his career." said our much lorded manager, could you ever imagine 'any' Liverpool manager saying that about a player?

Lukaku is only to ready and willing to say that he wants to go to a bigger club, well I can't wait to see the back of both of them, as Koeman seems to be here for a short time, going on his attitude and not having seemed to have improved the team to any great extent, and Lukaku has not improved at all.

The manager's job is to gel the team together, not fracture it by saying certain players are better off elsewhere. Koeman has lost what little respect and confidence I had of him after saying this, what a prat.

It's not like it's his job to be an ambassador for us, or to put us in the minds of possible transfer targets, or let the world's press know what a fantastic opportunity it is at Everton, or make global brands fall over themselves to give us millions.

Why should this over-rated coach have an affinity with Everton? Because, with all due respect, he's the fucking manager – that's why.

"Fuck, United, Liverpool & Arsenal with this pile of crap. Time to do one, lets mouth off and pave the way for my exit."

It's gonna be a blue Xmas, a New Year looking for a departed manager.

We all know the score and as much as it hurts we aren't a rich fashionable club anymore and haven't been since the mid eighties. If the manager has that attitude, however, realistic he should keep it to himself even though the truth hurts.

Like most new managers we have afforded Koeman a lot of respect, in return he has delivered us a humiliating kick in the balls. We already know that the club are on course for yet another mid table finish and only have the FA Cup to play for.

I would welcome the appointment of Unsworth as the new boss and dismiss Koeman with immediate effect. I am proud to be a fan of one of the oldest, greatest clubs in the land; we don't need a manager who puts the boot in on us.

I to find it hard to believe that Koemans comments are actually really positive towards Everton and the fans, and that somehow his statement was made to actually 'improve' our chances of attracting better players to our club, in fact Koeman, in an outer-galactic, Star Treky, Captain Kirk way is, saying something that only mister Spock would – 'in his Vulcan, ideological brain understand,' actually mean that he wants Lukaku to stay and by making these comments bring in world class players.

Isn't it amazing Patrick how the human mind works, if only we were all tuned into his ethos. Oh so much to learn and so little time, 'he said, sarcastically'.

As I said earlier, I'd like him to focus on maximising performance on the pitch, and I can't see that all the talking he does can help this, but I could be wrong.

Stop the rot now. Bring a manager who wants to be here. All the warning signs were clear even before he was hired.

If they hired me to manage Everton, I would take the first bus to Goodison. What did Koeman do? He went on a holiday. Brilliant!

George McKane, a founding member of the Everton Supporters' Trust, said Koeman is acting in Everton's best interests.

"It makes a pleasant change for someone to tell the truth," he told BBC Sport.

"What he's saying is what a lot of Evertonians are thinking." Really?

McKane said Dutchman Koeman's comments on Lukaku, who reportedly handed in a transfer request this summer, could be aimed at raising the Belgium international's price.

Dave Kelly, chairman of supporters' group Blue Union, said Lukaku is not yet at the level of a Champions League striker, but that more Everton players should be trying to attract the interest of Europe's top sides. Say what???

"He should have ambition. Why should Romelu Lukaku have any responsibility to stay at Everton? He's not an Evertonian," Kelly said. 㿲,000 a week, five year contract, being taken from no chance at Chelsea, and sub at WBA would bring at least a little bit of responsibility, and make him an Evertonian at least for his stay, wouldn't you think, Mr Kelly?

It gets better.

"I would love him to stay, but every player has his price. It's unfortunate that more of our players are not getting looked at by the European leagues." WTF?

There needs to be a statement of intent from our owner, that if clubs want to buy our players it will be on our terms and for top dollar. Beyond belief, anyone else want to take a snipe at Everton, get in line because there seems to be one forming.

https://twitter.com/livechoefc/status/796711223198973953

Paul, while I don't necessarily agree with George and Dave, it's a bit rich for somebody to say they shouldn't be able to state their views. Ironic that you should give their views the "oxygen of publicity"!

The BBC rang me and asked "my" opinion – I told them I couldn't speak for Evertonians as I had not asked them their opinion but I did say there was a "mix' of opinions that I had read off sites such as TW, with some saying he was right and some saying it was wrong.

This is pretty much what has been said on TW -– some say he is already trying to up the price when Lukaku is seemingly sold at the end of this season and some saying he was totally wrong.

I also mentioned at length how "mercenary" football was now days and that there was little loyalty in football anywhere and that Everton had won trophies in the past with home-based managers and players; of course I said that football is different now and had not been invented by Sky.

I also went on and said that anyone should be entitled to say what they want to – it is football and, unlike Shankly, I do not believe it is more important than life or whatever that stupid quote was... and that is the nature of free speech.

How much of what I said got onto the BBC, I don't know – haven't heard it... but (and it is a big 'but') I have the right to say whatever I wish and you and everybody of course has the right to totally disagree with my every word. I do not need you to tell me what statements I should or should not be making.

You can make any statement you like – you are welcome and have the total right to do so, and I can agree, disagree, vehemently oppose what you say or completely side with you. That's my right.

So continue to tell me what I can say or not say – you are free to do so... thank goodness.

If you want my opinion on this situation, it is that I couldn't really care less if Koeman or Lukaku are at Goodison tomorrow or the day after or the next game... but I know I will be and I guess you will.

Cosmic grooves all the way.

As far as you said about not caring if the both of them are gone tomorrow, I agree, I couldn't care less if most of this team left, as I believe that they really couldn't give a toss about our club, but I do care passionately for Everton.

But I do think that any player or manager that signs for us should at least have the decency to respect this club and its fans; even if they don't care, at least they should pretend that they do.

And as you know, once a monster is loose here... Link

But c'est la vie –as they say in French Guyana.

No matter what else we are we are, Evertonians – sad, sorry and sensitive, living on the tightrope too long – the problem of course is that I, like I guess Koeman and Lukaku, am in the media quite a lot – and I am fully aware that they can always misquote or take your quotes out of context.

I spoke with the young guy at BBC, I asked him his age: 28, he said; I asked if he knew who the 4th most successful team in English football was... He didn't know. I told him it was Everton.

I also said, as an Evertonian, I was talking to him from the ledge on a 22-story building – that's where we live, I said. I spoke with him for about 15 to 20 minutes and I would be surprised, not shocked, if 15 to 20 seconds of what I said went out.

We know this is what happens but still I quite like talking to the media and I fully realise that they can mess you around.

I agree about most players leave but we –that's me and you and all True Blues – we go to support OUR Club.

Keep cool and be nice to meet up for a real chat and a pint and a good moan about the sate of football and the role the media play in creating that situation.

Up The Blues.

Cap doffed, sir.

I just hope, you being a Blue, that you never thought of jumping off that building – you know you would only make a nasty impression on the side walk. 😇

Peace love and harmony to All Blues (and of course up your RS).

The monster changes from thread to thread, post to post, day to day, but is usually created by the same mob (so 'monster' = anyone who won't go along with what is often just shouty, ill-informed venting).

Funny thing about the mob that chased Frankestein's creation, never once did any of them say "Yeah, okay, his creation is big and scary but he's the first person EVER to create life from dead tissue — that is fucking incredible!"

It was usually just "Look, something that scares me! Get your torches and let's chase it and burn it!"

(Not an unsuccessful strategy by the way, worked beautifully for Farage and Trump.)

1) Thanks for your links to the article quoting Ronald Koeman, much appreciated.

2) I read it translated into English.

3) I used another translation into English and also read that.

4) I find there is no daylight betwixt Lyndon's original reportage and Koeman's words in the original article.

5) You have done a sterling job in attempting to persuade us all that there is a flipside to Ronnie's words.

6) I, personally, cannot see just how Koeman is misinterpreted, misquoted, or misunderstood by the overwhelming majority of posters here.

7) Koeman's remarks do NOT promote or display respect for Everton Football Club, it's fans or owners.

8) "Inside the tent, pissing out? Or outside pissing in? But never inside taking the piss!"

It's early days with regards Koeman, but I definitely agree with George, and wouldn't be bothered if neither of them were at Goodison, for the next game. (I know... I haven't thought it through... because Lukaku is our ONLY striker!!!)

Lukaku, scores goals, but doesn't offer that much to the team with regards his general play. Can't argue with his goalscoring record, or his 15 minute cameos, but he thinks he's a lot better than he actually his, and I'm not sure he can ever become anything more than he offers now, whilst he has this mindset?

Koeman worries me because the team just doesn't seem to really have much of a plan just yet. It might be down to the squad he inherited, and it's distinct lack of character but, like Martinez before, everything seems centred on a centre forward, who isn't that clever at bringing other players into the game?

My other big worry is that despite looking fitter, we are in 17th place, when it comes to how many miles the team have actually ran this season.

Maybe the cynic in John might just be right? Or maybe Koeman was referring to the players Lukaku, currently plays with? Because they are the ones who actually represent where Everton Football Club actually stand in the game right now?

After Saturday, and then this, only results can help him now – and, let's face it, if we start winning games, he will soon be forgiven.

It's not just the insult to us but can anyone seriously see Rom in the Barca team? "Sorry Neymar lad, you're on the bench today...." Yeah, right.

We need a complete reverse of the Chelsea result and a thumping 5-0 win ourselves, against the team at the bottom of the (so-called) Premier League form table.

For me, this is still a Martinez team and I have seen not one ounce of difference under Koeman's tenure. And now he's talking us down. It's beyond belief!

No excuse. No lost in translation. This is not a manager being caught out, or being selectively mis-quoted. He has made it clear that Lukaku's future lies elsewhere.

Eleven mediocre, uninspiring, fortuitous games in, I am beginning to think his may too. If our manager cannot be relied upon to big us up, what hope have we got?

It will take Koeman a season or two before he becomes a true Evertonian. I think we have a good manager who has a top 6 finish goal.

Let's hope you will soon be able to see more of our home ground from your house.

I am with the majority, as manager of Everton Football Club, this comment is unacceptable.

If he's after big money and building Rom up, then why not do the same with Niasse? Niasse was doing alright for the Under-23s... suddenly he's injured and not a word said about his injury and out for how long?

Injured my arse, he was taken out of the limelight and my fussing from someone higher up than Unsworth.

RS must be laughing all the way to the bank!

Fair enough, Anthony, but we will have to wait to see how that pans out. I think he will do well at Everton; time will tell.

No matter how he does, we will both be here to see how the next manager performs, God willing.