Allardyce plans additional help for players

Unfortunately Paul Daniels passed away a few years ago.

Succeeding at this level is about all-round professionalism – from the physical aspect of training, to recovery, sleep, nutrition and of course, the mental dimension.

I think it's an excellent move to bring in a sports psychologist to Everton. Not just for the current confidence problems but to create a consistent winning mentality.

Look at the way Steve Peters got the likes Vicky Pendleton and other in British Cycling and Team Sky working. Again, we're lagging behind the rest in this regard – the RS had Peters working for them years ago, although his focus was mostly on stopping a rabid dog from biting other players!

Seriously though, can't fault Sam for wanting to get to the bottom of the problems afflicting some members of our team.

Let us hope they get their heads together before the coming weekend!

If we do lose, I want to see our players hurting – not chatting with RS players about where in Wilmslow or Poynton they're going to meet up later.

Makes you wonder what support is offered to incoming players as they move to larger stage in a new city. Most are young – some, like Lookman, are teenagers, single men with new-found wealth, no local contacts and time to fill around a high pressure job with high expectations.

I am sure we have a psychology team on board – both for the first team and the academy – but have we lost these guys or is Sam saying we need someone better, or is he redefining the role somehow? If anyone can shed any light, please do so.

I (not uniquely) have advocated consistently for a top sports psychologist to help with our mental frailties which manifest themselves most evidently whenever we play our derby games. Someone of the ilk of Steve Peters (David Brailsford lauded him as one of his best recruits into British Cycling back when they were formed) would work wonders with the squad – starting with Ross if we can keep him, never mind Sigurdsson, Klaassen, Sandro et al. Indeed the whole squad would benefit.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. As I say, I thought we had someone and would be staggered if not but it is excellent that Sam is identifying these needs.

I remain to be convinced about Sam but I am starting to believe with some of the things being said that he does have ambitions on our stage other than a quick pay cheque.

https://www.foxestalk.co.uk/topic/111088-interview-with-sports-psychologist-who-was-sacked-by-ranieri/

Basically, that is what Shankly (I know) and Alex Ferguson did, not placing the proverbial boot firmly on the little possum's posteriors, but psychologically getting them to believe they were invincible.

I seem to remember Bobby Robson, when at Ipswich as Manager, using a Sports Psychologist too, I do remember him being one of the first to bring in foreign players, Thjaessen and Muhren.

So not exactly innovative of Sam, but a welcome addition to sorting out our lot.

If he has any spare time on his hands, (the Sports Psychologist) maybe he could devote some time to ToffeeWebbers!

He mentioned Colin Hendry as being a player whose confidence had been undermined and he was helping him back. So Sam was leading the way back then and I agree with James (#11).

I'm only having a bit of fun with this one but I don't think Mrs Drury did much for Hoddle's England or RS Peters inspired Woy's mob at the last World Cup, did they?

I'd give the guy three days on here and he'd either be able to retire on the theses he could write or he'd get carted out dribbling in an "I love me" jacket!

Perhaps there is a chance of getting Paul McKenna in before the trip across the park to get the players thinking anything in red is just a nonentity – the woodlice of the football world there to be crushed underfoot.

Come on, Sam, you know it makes sense.

http://westhamfootball.blogspot.sg/2011/11/big-sams-use-of-sabermetrics-at-west.html

He's no dinosaur. (I am still shocked that he's our manager though – will we ever win anything?)

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURSE!!!

Tell you what though, this Svengali will be a goodun if he can convince Deeney he's a £40 Million player.

Amazing what they taught at Dudley Secondary Modern, eh?

I've watched a few documentaries on how clubs like Real Madrid and Bayern are run, and we're like a Boy Scouts outfit by comparison.

As for Rick Pattinson... fair comment on Paul Daniels, as we'd actually need Irene Drury to contact him in the first place! Also, I'm not sure any pep talk or therapy sessions the players could do with should start with a squeaky, 'This is a football, is it not? Say yes, Paul!'...

"We're Boy Scouts compared to Real and Barca'" – no shit?! Spilt milk and all that, yeah?

Onwards and upwards, TOFFEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!!

I also find it strange that he'd mention it in an interview. More of a 'behind closed doors' kind of thing.

Just because Allardyce has mentioned the fact the he is going to introduce psychologists under his management does not mean that previous managers haven't used them in the past. But hey, let's not miss an opportunity to give EFC a dig in the ribs.

When you think of the psycho babble that Martinez trotted out – he must have got that from somewhere?

Rather than rely on just mistaken assumption I did some digging and found this link on the official club site.

Link

It would appear we do have a psychology team, but as the profile descriptions mention they seem to be exclusively assigned to the academy set up.

I am astonished that a sports psychologist, if not employed on a full-time basis, is not available in just an ad hoc or part-time role to the senior squad.

He also said that he would talk to the ref before the match and ask him to let a few tackles go early on for both sides. He knew he could get away for a few early (insert as appropriate tackles/assaults etc). On hearing this, I recalled a dreadful assault on Pienaar by Carragher at the start of a derby.

Some players, like Carragher, wouldn't need a psychologist to get psyched up, nor would the likes of Coleman, Rooney etc but I think several of our players including Ross could well benefit.

Off topic, interested to see very little interest in the Delph Dive yesterday. Google tells me there is a Delph Diver Centre in Lancashire. Maybe Oumar will have one named after him as well.

Imagine if the club could have a member of staff who could make sure these 𧴜 grand a week players stay at the top of their game more often and identify the best ways to motivate different players, such as which ones do respond to a proverbial kick and which ones need a bit of fluffy guidance.

The film title by the way, has nothing whatsoever to do with the useless character Koeman brought in from Southampton.

I'm just off to the ducks to feed the park.

Help, it's started already!

Tell Salah his Mrs was born a man. Tell them Alex Ferguson wins £7 million if Everton lose. I fancy 0-0 classic this week. Praying for it in fact 😣

The game moved on years ago and before Allardyce was our manager I really liked his talks on the aspects of the game and its science.< This is the side of the game I would love to be more educated in.

What, like doing something which might help the team is an embarrassment to be kept quiet?

Our lads have been a bit lacking in confidence is (hopefully) all!.. they aren't all suddenly the fucking nutty cousins locked in the attic, never to be referred to out loud again, ffs!!!

Go back to the Southampton game and picture Ademola Lookman getting a ball on our left wing in the 2nd half. We're losing, he just has Cedric in front of him to beat and he has a clear run at the end line and can get a dangerous cross in. He takes a look and turns back and plays the easy option ball backward into midfield.

Maybe I am wrong here and he was following orders, but it's possible that a few sessions with a Psychologist before that game, could have convinced him he could easily take on and do Cedric for pace??? If the Psychologist could improve performance by 1% it's worth it. It's about belief, like this thread.

Apologies for 'predictive' typos in my earlier post.

Sam is using what is called a holistic approach (look at problems from every angle and not just psychology), to help players play better. I notice Sam calls Everton players 'staff'..which seems to be 'inclusive'...ie not just temporary players but that they're a part of Everton. He also uses 'we' 'us' to describe the EFC. I think this is all psychological too. Psych friendly to our players.

The other point, Jamie Carag. (for RS) said in the tunnels he would not talk to Everton players unless after the game and RS won. He said EFC players showed too much respect to RS even though at the time EGC were only a few below, ie 4th versus 5th or 6th place. Jamie said, EFC players wanted to talk to LFC as though RS were above them.

One good thing about the appointment is that we'll know who to blame if we do lose on Sunday!

He's been in the game long enough to let them know in his very plain English speak that they are all very well paid athletes in a very well paid industry playing for a great club (once) so get on that pitch and do as your told.

I know the game has moved on a bit over the past twenty years or so but isn't that part of his job to motivate them and get them geared up for every game??

Isn't that clubist?

Or is that foodist?

We can leave it at that and talk about football instead.

(Perhaps I need a shrink because I'm not up for the fight?!)

The Premier League is about elite performance and elite athletes having not just the physical prowess, skill and aptitude but also mental and psychological strength to cope with the demands. We are dealing with multi million pound assets that need nurturing and support – particularly through injury, loss of form and crisis as we have just witnessed.

Gerard, Joey Barton and Sturridge to my knowledge have all employed the use of a sports psychologist / mentor and if it helps performance who can argue with it?

When he got back to the dug out, Bertie asked the trainer "How bad is he?"

The trainer said "He's not too bad but doesn't seem to know who he is," Bertie said "Well when he goes out for the second half, tell him he's fuckin' Pele and he might score a fuckin' hat trick!"

By the looks of it, the currently employed psychologists are scientists rather than clinicians http://www.evertonfc.com/content/club/academy/pear/psychology-and-wellbeing/meet-the-team

What about the fans though, I know I could do with one plus throw in a psychiatrist!

So Thompson said he ran out of the tunnel like Roy of the Rovers and it was only after the game that he looked back and remembered that, in the game that Shankly was referring to, Parker didn't even give him a sniff of the ball.

Psychology has a place in every big organization.

If any players are in need of help on this front, I would put Baines, Jagielka, Williams, Schneiderlin and Mirallas at the top of my list. They are all classic examples of players with confidence issues.

Reading through this thread it's good to see a few expletives being used (for emphasis and amusement rather than personal denigration – except of all things RS of course). It was all getting a bit sugary yesterday!

Two elderly couples were enjoying friendly conversation when one of the men asked the other, "Fred, how was the memory clinic you went to last month?"

"Outstanding," Fred replied. "They taught us all the latest psychological techniques – visualization, association – it made a huge difference for me."

"That's great! What was the name of the clinic?"

Fred went blank. He thought and thought, but couldn't remember. Then a smile broke across his face and he asked, "What do you call that red flower with the long stem and thorns?"

"You mean a rose?"

"Yes, that's it!" He turned to his wife. . ."Rose, what was the name of that clinic?"

"In which season did Everton beat Liverpool three times, two of them away from home?"

Bring it on! Gerrinto'em!

Weeellll...I thought of you might need cheering up.

He hasn't gone and bought a dog

In his 'after dinner' days Bally used to tell a tale about the Catt calling in a shrink from Liverpool Uni after a very poor run of results (1971-72 I think) ahead of an away game at league leaders, Leeds.

Apparently, the guy focused on 'positive thinking' and insisted ' if you want it enough you have to believe'. After a very physical battle with Bremner and Norman' Bites yer Legs,' Leeds won 3-2.

Returning to the dressing room, total silence prevailed until a naked Westy stood up and with a scowl screamed "Right then, who was the bastard that thought we was gonna lose?"

Link

The English cricket team arrives blissfully unaware that before a ball is bowled the Aussies already have the series won in their heads.

The RS use the same tactics – note Carragher's tweet about the cup draw. Their mindset is win any derby and they can beat anyone – it sets them up mentally for anything.

There are a couple of ways to deal with this – this is how the All Blacks do it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yiKFYTFJ_kw

The other is to have the a manager and individuals on the pitch that have the required mental resilience to overcome the psychological warfare. I am of the opinion that Messrs Allardyce and Rooney have this. The fact that they both know how to beat them (because they have) is a big plus.

Thanks for your link. I haven't seen any confirmation of this appointment elsewhere, but it is a very good one, if people care to do their research.

Mind you, others might resent his RS connections (he worked with Brenda over the park when they run City close to the title that year) as per Sammy Lee.

I completely agree with doing it. It just strikes me that publicly announcing a loss of confidence to the extent of needing professional help to overcome the issue is a strange approach. Yes, we can all see it but, for me, you address player confidence in house.

Otherwise it comes across a bit more as "look how smart I am".

And yeah again, point well taken about any RS connections and some of us getting a bit bothered by them, but these days I'm not one; we've been in such a state recently, my pride's gone walkabout and I'll accept some genuine assistance anywhere we can get it. :)

Regards the better players, isn't it for line managers to instil confidence by gaining respect for tactics and team selection?

Confidence is not a magical feeling that can be forced on grown men.

Martinez specialised in sports psychology. Enough said.

To be a sport psychologist, you require Health Professions Council (HPC) registration which requires: (1) the completion of a British Psychological Society (BPS) accredited undergraduate degree; (2) a BPS accredited Masters degree orthe BPS's own Stage 1 qualification in sport and exercise psychology; then (3) the BPS's own Stage 2 qualification is sport and exercise psychology.

Combined, steps 2-3 comprise three years postgraduate training. Including the undergraduate degree, a qualified sport psychologist will start their career as an HPC-registered practitioner after a minimum 6 years training.

So no, not "enough said", because it was untrue.

That's only my opinion of course, but they don't like Sam, because they know he doesn't like them. They also know he's never been scared of them, and its possibly why Carragher was advising him to “tone it down”?

Let's concentrate on Everton, and just embrace these games. John Wilson, and a couple of others seem a bit fearful, but I suppose we have been ground over and fucking out by the other crowd over the years, but I think it's time we put the boot back on the other foot now.

I should have read that piece on “the blacks” though Laurie, because they've always been my second favourite team!

Damn that's six and out!

Really surprised and disappointed these things don't already happen – aren't we suppose to be a big club? After all, we spend so much money on players and wages – what's a little more to get every ounce of performance out of the players on a regular basis?

Read his sprawling interviews and you will see countless examples of him falling back on sports psychology platitudes.

Moreover, he studied psychology within Business Management (within a Masters?) at Manchester Metropolitan University.

Thanks for the lecture, but I am not looking for a career change right now. Keep visualising yourself winning this argument all the same, of course.

Moreover, he studied psychology within Business Management (within a Masters?) at Manchester Metropolitan University.

As above, becoming a sports psychologist is a six-year slog involving both undergraduate and postgraduate BPS accredited courses, as well as professional accreditation. Doing a psychology module within a business masters might give one a passing interest in sport psychology; it does not make one a specialist in sports psychology.

He can chat about it in interviews all he wants, he isn't now, and never has been, a specialist in sport psychology.

You read "Martinez is a specialist in sports psychology".

Perhaps you are projecting?

Anyway, it is quite sad that people spend so many years studying such a phony subject. You could have studied actual Medicine in 6 years.

What a bizarre statement, I'm sure if they wanted to be medical practitioners they would have gone to university and studied medicine. I expect most probably studied sport and exercise science or psychology as an undergraduate degree, developed a passion for sports psychology and then went on to undertake further study. Hence they did it because that's the career they aspired to work in.

Those who stick at and become HPC accredited tend to do pretty well for themselves. When they sit there at the end of the day, with a good income and job satisfaction, I expect they aren't too sad that they aren't working 14-hour shifts in a highly stressful job that they didn't want in the first place.

As for Allardyce, I remember when he first came to prominence with Bolton, he was a huge advocate of sports science. I seem to recall he was slightly ridiculed by the media for employing sports psychologists, using cryo-chambers and specialist dietitians for his players. It was a first for British managers to employ training methods used on the continent.

It's amusing that sports science in a key element of the game now, so he was very much ahead of his time in that sense.

All Blacks V France

Guess who won.

It seems they teach them the Haka early in New Zealand.

Welcome!!

I haven't got a clue what these lads are saying but it drum up visions of 5,000 mad Evertonians doing their own Haka at Mordor. That would rattle them.

Have we got any Kiwi Blues available on short notice for this Sunday?

Complete nonsense.

The 1970s have been on the phone – they want their opinions back.

Regardless of personal views and scepticism, there surely must be something in it. I think of tennis, where Andy Murray (for example) has used advice/training/mentoring from sports psychologists, to move him from a 'near the top' player to one of the best there is. The psychology of not giving in for example, where you keep playing in the same methodical way, whether you're three match points away from victory or three match points away from defeat. Where, in football, you don't panic and just keep on playing methodically, not giving in, in the face of possible defeat.

It must be very difficult to do that as a professional sportsman, as it is to maintain a 'methodical and cool head' in other professional disciplines when you're under stress or other pressures. So surely some systematic training or advice here is important.

If it's good enough for them.

I'd recommend his audiobooks to any Toffeeweb golfers out there.

Next game, an experienced golfer gave me some advice. He looked at my warm-up swing, and said that looks fine, that I was then making a mistake by trying to hit the ball, ie, focus on the ball when doing the swing proper, that I should just move into the right position but repeat the warm-up swing, ignoring the ball. He said, the ball just happens to be there, and if you get the position and swing right, the ball will fly. And it did, I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't say I was good, but I was a lot better than before, and at least it felt good.

Now, that is pure psychology, has to be. Nothing was changed physically, it was just a shift in mental approach. So if it can work in that one example, I can only begin to imagine how it can work more generally.

There was a great documentary on BBC Radio 5 live all about him and his theory and his work with British Cycling. It was brilliant and towards the end of it, I was thinking this is eye-opening and revolutionary stuff. It also deals with bad behaviour and sportsmen acting out. Peters told the cyclists, that if their colleague (and usually friend) is acting up, then they need to just ignore them, that this is not them, but their chimp and to not let it effect them.

Throughout the documentary I was thinking we're missing someone here. We heard from Vicky Pendleton, who is an absolutely brilliant cyclist who dominated women's sprinting for year, but is clearly a very fragile girl, Peters' work with her was extraordinary and shows the real value of sports psychology. We also heard from a few of the other big names. But one was missing. They saved him to last, Sir Bradley Wiggins. For the uninitiated, he's the guy who has won the most Olympic medals (for a Briton) and was the first British winner of Le Tour de France. They asked him about Steve Peters, and he was dismissive, said he didn't work with him. And then made a hilarious comment, saying if Steve Cummins (superb lad from Wallasey) is being a tit, then it's not his chimp, it's him being a tit, and I'll tell him he's being a tit!

Great Documentary. Clearly it works for some but not for others, and only for those who wish to engage. And for what it's worth Peters also worked with LFC and it didn't stop them carrying on as serial bottlers.

Don't want to bore people so I'll be brief.

Psychologists can be very helpful and there is a real medical need for them.

Sports psychologists are snake oil salesmen.

Regardless, everything I said about confidence in the manager being key still stands. Great leaders inspire confidence. They don't need these frauds.

I doubt very much that you know what the role of a sport psychologist is, and there is an element of Dunning Kruger in your comments here (you don't know what you don't know).

I'm not a sport psychologist; I was an exercise physiologist and am now a strength and conditioning coach, and through that I've worked in high performance for over 10 years, including with athletes who have gone on to achieve the ultimate success in their sport.

I've seen first-hand the value a good sport psychologist can bring to the support team and can point to objective measurable outcomes.

I appreciate I stoked your argument here, but my initial point was focused upon the importance of the manager and coaches leading effectively. Without effective leadership of any sports team, a sports psychologist would have a very tough job in trying to impact your KPIs.

It is interesting that many comments reference individualistic sports rather than team sports. This makes sense. In a team, the individual is subject to the influence of other team members and team leaders, and is keenly aware of how they are treated relative to others. Moreover, if they feel under threat, or do not respect or have trust in their leaders then motivation and performance will suffer. Individual athletes do not usually have all of these influences to preoccupy them, and I would imagine put themselves under immense pressure. Andy Murray worries me at times, but I am sure a non-sports psychologist would do him just fine.

Am I qualified to make the above comments? Well, yes. They are based upon observation and logic rather than empty ethos.

I gave an example of musicians @148, my daughter being a professional musician. She's never had any 'formal' mentoring from a psychologist as such, but I believe aspects of her development have involved psychology deeply, in the sense of handling things mentally, such as performing in front of an audience, or staying focused when there are other pressures, beyond the technical skills required.

Anthony@151: The distinction you make between individual and team sports is interesting. I can imagine team sports are similar to teams in, say, industry, where at the end of the day things depend on good managers who understand different people and their skills. And bad managers can break a team of good workers.

A thing about team sports, though, is they're not just 'team' sports are they, because it's teams of individuals, each performing separately but interacting. Each player can be individually crap or brilliant, and surely there's a lot of psychology there of the type that is used in 'individual sports'.

He gives the example of the smartest kid in school who is successful in gaining access to an elite university. Suddenly they're associating with the intellectual cream, all aspiring to greatness. How many of those kids, upon seeing how much dedication and commitment is actually required to excel, opt for just being above average?

That would absolutely be common in football. Pick any young Premier League player and I'll bet their feats at school and their local team were the talk of the town. What happens when they get signed and are alongside others of the same or better standard?

What made Cristiano Ronaldo decide that he wanted to be the very best and push himself to incredible levels of dedication?

Why is Morgan Schneiderlin happy to try to look good rather than be good?

Is not God given is it? Most Premier League players have a decent degree of physical ability/stature.

That's why we get into trouble in politics!

Some players push themselves in each and every training session; some go through the actions.

Some players eat all the right stuff; some eat junk.

Some players drink; some abstain.

Some players hear the manager's instructions once and carry them out to the letter; some players never get with the script.

Some players are thick as shite; some can finish a tricky crossword in their own handwriting.

Some managers have a mate or two by their side to air their views; some managers have a coach load of assistants.

Some clubs win trophies; some avoid them for decades.

Some fans pay attention to the minutiae of off-field affairs... this fan is sick of winning fuck all.

Employ a sports psychologist, a dietician, a specialist in origami, a witch doctor or even a bender of fucking spoons, but win us something.

And by the way, 4 across, aquatic mammal (5,3) is not ship's cat.

It really does go beyond a joke, and you know what? We all go along with it, that's the sad annoying thing, we all support them no matter what they do on the pitch.

In the real world, in any other job, you were as bad as this lot, you would be out the door. But you can't sack a footballer for under performing, he still gets paid, and he couldn't give a toss!

How many jobs have you held that had 50,000 people showing up to watch you every week, tens to hundreds of millions watching you around the world, and those same people spending their free time commenting about you on Internet forums? Just curious. The point is, it's not just any other job.

Sports psychology isn't about helping you deal with childhood issues. It's about helping you mentally focus and get the most out of your physical abilities by making sure the mental side is as tuned as possible. Not sure where your anger is coming from, but there might be a psychologist out there that can help you with that. 😜