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Fonseca turns Everton down in favour of Gunners chance

| Monday, 30 April 2018 172comments  |  Jump to last
Paulo Fonseca, reportedly Everton's top choice to replace Sam Allardyce at the end of the season, has rejected the Blues' overtures as he is also on Arsenal's shortlist.

Journalist Guillem Balague said on a vlog posting about the upcoming vacancy at The Emirates that the Portuguese "said no" to the Blues because has been told of the Gunners' interest in him.

Everton are thought to be weighing up ending Sam Allardyce's tenure at the end of this season and are assessing new managerial candidates, with Fonseca high on the shortlist.



Reader Comments (172)

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Sam Hoare
1 Posted 30/04/2018 at 15:55:11
Hi Ho Silva?
Tony Everan
2 Posted 30/04/2018 at 15:57:38
Out of the two Portu-geezers, I was siding with Silva anyway .

It is a gamble for Arsenal and I hope it goes pear shaped.

Liam Reilly
3 Posted 30/04/2018 at 15:57:43
Can't see him getting Arsenal with the names been branded around
Michael Lynch
4 Posted 30/04/2018 at 15:57:53
Surely he won't be offered the Arsenal job? This sounds like bollocks to me. If he wants a job in the PL, we should be the absolute height of his ambitions at this stage in his career. He's done fuck all. Same with Silva.
Soren Moyer
5 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:05:40
Fonseca wasn't my first choice. However, Emery is and will be available at the end of the current season.
Gary Hart
6 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:05:45
Guillem Balague is a Liverpool fan who likes to comment about us a lot (don't they all!). He's been wrong about things in the past. I wouldn't read too much into this.
Justin Doone
7 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:10:52
Good. Now just give me Mancini for Everton. Fast forward to the World Cup before waking me up when the transfer window closes. I need to ween myself of all this nonsense paper talk.
Mike Gaynes
8 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:14:52
True, Liam -- Allegri and Enrique reportedly the favorites, with Ragnick, Viera, even Tedesco among those in frame. But Fonseca has a magnetic personality and might be attractive to Arsenal, which needs to repair its relationship with the fans.

Don't know if Balague is a reliable source, but I couldn't blame Fonseca if he has stiff-armed us to wait for the Arse to decide. Better situation obviously.

And when they pick someone else, I'm sure we'll be back in for him.

Marc Hints
9 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:30:07
You can't blame him really if true. At Everton it is going to be a massive re-building job where at Arsenal they already have a great squad to work with.
Jim Bennings
10 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:32:33
Not too sure on Fonseca yet anyway, he might be a gem but he's only managing in a weak league and correct me if I'm wrong but have Donetsk really produced a great Champions League campaign under him yet?
Bobby Thomas
11 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:37:19
Can understand if he wants to keep his options open but one thing he won't be doing is getting the Arsenal job.
Tony Everan
12 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:42:25
There must be some truth in it or Mr Moshiri would be sending him a solicitor's letter in the 5 pm post.
Jerome Shields
13 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:44:20
Not surprised Everton are in a mess.
Trevor Peers
14 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:55:05
There's no one out there who wants to manage the blues, by the looks of it, especially if this is true. They must all be reading TW.
Colin Glassar
15 Posted 30/04/2018 at 16:55:07
I think Arsenal will play safe and go for someone like Ancellotti or Pelegríni. Fonseca or Silva would do for me as both are young, energetic, forward thinking managers unlike the brontosaurus we currently have.

Jim, considering his team, Shakhtar Donetsk, have to play hundreds of miles from home, due to the Russian invasion, I think they've done amazingly well in the CL.

Colin Glassar
16 Posted 30/04/2018 at 17:05:46
Anyone else think Guilem Balague is a bit of a tit? I lost all respect for him when he said, on tv, that he supported Espanyol when everyone knows he's a huge Barca fan. Most of his rumours are made up and he bluffed his way into sky only because he speaks Spanish and considers himself an expert on Spanish footy. He's a dickhead imo.
Tony Twist
17 Posted 30/04/2018 at 17:07:24
Interesting to see how it all pans out. After viewing his team on youtube, I am not sure he is the right fit for Everton, it was like watching Martinez 's Everton with them passing the ball into the back of the net. Suits Arsenal on that front. I'd rather be a team that is quick on the attack not requiring 30 passes to achieve what could be done in 2.
Paul Birmingham
18 Posted 30/04/2018 at 17:20:31
I'd said this is journo King Edwards and as such unless proven is more bull.

The EFC board need to be clean, and show spine, but perhaps this is the real issue.

If, who, how, when and because, remain to be answered, hopefully by now and the last game, so the summer period can be optimised as best possible, to get players, coaches and a future plan together.. Wishful thinking perhaps?

Jay Harris
19 Posted 30/04/2018 at 17:41:36
Mike, I believe Enrique is in advances talks with Chelsea, Conte looks set to take the Itaiian job (no pun intended) so I'm guessing Allegri will get the Arsenal gig.

Simeone wants to stay at Atletico, Fonseca doesnt want to come to Everton so we are back in limbo again.

Personally I don't want Silva but would love to get Emery who was my choice before Koeman.

David Israel
20 Posted 30/04/2018 at 17:58:08
Fonseca will come to Goodison, and when he wins the Premier League, he'll be poached by the Gooners. Remember where you read it first.
Paul Brown
21 Posted 30/04/2018 at 17:58:11
Everton? Arsenal ?
Old ground ? New ground ?
Relegation fight ? Champions league expectations ?
Gobshite bad actor in charge ?
Billionaire yank in charge ?
Survival the aim ?
Titles and silverware demanded ?
Hmm, looks like Sam to stay...
David Israel
22 Posted 30/04/2018 at 17:59:22
Jay #18, Emery would be my choice, too.
Trevor Peers
23 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:08:37
Emery would be great.
Phil Martin
24 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:17:42
Emery was the guy we wanted before Koeman. We have to go all out for him, though I think Arsenal will have the same idea.
David Israel
25 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:21:31
Tony #16, 'I'd rather be a team that is quick on the attack not requiring 30 passes to achieve what could be done in 2.'

Thus spoke Big Sam. ;-)

James Marshall
26 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:24:50
My choice would be Wenger - we all know he plays good football and certainly commands respect. Moshiri knows him well, and he was instrumental in the rise of Arsenal with their new ground.

He may not be getting much of a mention on here, but I think he'd be perfect for us with the new ground on the horizon.

John Graham
27 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:25:41
Emery
James Hill
28 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:25:57
How about Steve Gerard?
Peter Gorman
29 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:30:05
Oh James, you are a card. Have to be a no though, if only on the basis that he would be crap.
Ian Carrie
30 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:30:06
The only Emery we'll get is Dick Emery
Christopher Timmins
31 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:30:08
Emery or Silva would both fit the bill, there are plenty of good candidates out there. The club have just got to get this decision right!
Given that Moshi went after Silva last autumn I can't see why we would not bring him in now.
James Marshall
32 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:32:36
Silva - relegated with Hull, struggled with Watford. I simply have no idea why he even gets mentioned. He's just another failure.

Wenger.

David Currie
33 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:48:50
Well said James 29, my choice would be Eddie Howe.
He can give us the stability, the attractive style of football and the mentality to have a go and try to win against the top 6 teams. He is young and talented.
James Marshall
34 Posted 30/04/2018 at 18:55:06
I like Eddie Howe, but for me I think we need proven stability, and with Wenger now free to move on, he fits the bill perfectly for me.

We've been a mess on the managerial front since Moyes left, and Wenger brings everything we require in my view.

It's a no brainer.

Tony Everan
35 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:00:06
Guillem Balague is Spanish for Hilda Ogden.

Or

If he lived next to Jim White, gossiping over the back garden fence whilst hanging out the washing (Les Dawson style).

Anthony Murphy
36 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:02:09
Emery would be pick for me too, but can't see him going from managing Neymar to Niasse somehow. Sadly it'll be Allardyce next season whilst Moshiri channels all his effort into BMD leaving Brands to oversee the next step in terms of the playing side of things.
Michael Lang
37 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:04:40
Balague is well known to know nothing about what goes on, he is all about rumour with no substance. Hopefully we will know before the end of the season, not sure about Silva but any one of Fonseca, Emery or Mancini will do for me.
Tony Marsh
38 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:11:47
Brilliant reading this thread.Yet again our fan base calling out the names of manger's we don't stand a chance of attracting to Everton FC and at the same time assuming prematurely that Allardyce is toast. Why do it to yourselves?

For those of you calling for Eddie Howe it was common knowledge that Eddie's missus hated it up North when he was Burnley manager. The Howes won't be leaving the South coast anytime soon. The rest of the other name's being touted simply won't come.

Newsflash EFC are a big club only in the eyes of our own fans. We are none entities on the continent and barely thought of here in the UK. It's sad guys but true.

I don't think Big Sam is leaving so stop driving yourselves mad with this constant name dropping.Just cast your minds back to the end of last year for clarity on how managers think about the Everton job.

Mike Dolan
39 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:20:37
Of all the names being thrown around and there are some good ones lets hedge our bets a little and go with someone who at least has had some success in the Premier League. Having said that Wenger is a great manager but perhaps past his sell-by date, Gerrard is surely just a comic relief selection, Fonseca has spent years in a noncompetitive league, Silva hasn't really impressed that much. If I was to take a long shot it would be Mikel Arteta who is now studying under the master, is someone who knows how the beautiful game should be played, he is loved by the fans and just all around shimmers Everton class.

Perhaps just as important is the training staff. It does not take an Einstein to figure out that most of this season the team on the field was a complete shambles and they have only improved from terrible to mediocre just recently. The coaches have to take a lot of the blame and this needs to change.

Jim Bennings
40 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:27:38
Wenger for two seasons with Arteta as his number 2 and eventual replacement for 2020/2021 season now that would be something of a real exciting dawn .
Tony Twist
41 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:29:28
Nice one, David [23], though the thought did make me shudder!

I think the final decision will be with Brands, if he is coming, as he should have an idea on what type of football we should develop and what manager suits this style.

James Marshall
42 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:33:32
Wenger and Arteta - the perfect match up.

That fits us just right in my view. Arteta knows Wenger, Arteta knows Everton, Wenger knows Moshiri and Arteta is learning from Guardiola.

How any other option could better that I have no idea!

Sam Hoare
43 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:36:56
James@29

"Silva - relegated with Hull, struggled with Watford."

Massive over-simplification there.

Obviously he took over Hull when they were already all but doomed. He achieved some remarkable results there and almost managed to save them. I think he got 1.25 points per match which would have been easily enough to keep them up over the course of a season.

He didn't really struggle that badly with Watford. They had an exceptionally good start until they became unsettled by the media attention linking him to us and even then they were only 10th when he left. Higher than they are now.

Of course you are also totally ignoring the 6 years of his career before he came to England during which he achieved miracles at Estoril, won Sporting their first trophy in 7 years and broke the European record after getting 17 consecutive domestic wins for Olympiakos.

Yeah, just another failure... :)

Brian Harrison
44 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:37:22
I don't know if Fonseca has turned us down, but if he has then I would be more than happy to see Marco Silva take over. A young progressive manager has won a league title. Surely if Moshiri thought it was worth spending £10 million to get him only a few months back, to get him for free is a no brainer surely?.

Guardiola has said Arteta is going nowhere so forget about that one. Wenger has said he wants to take some time away from the game so he is another we can rule out.

James Marshall
45 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:41:49
Sam, all good points and I take them on board.

You're right, I have over simplified things on Silva. I've just never see him do anything in this country that's made me leap up & down and want him as manager.

He hasn't exactly been getting a lot of offers from other clubs in the division, or perhaps he has and has just kept quiet because he's being lined up for us.

Whatever happens we all have our favourites, and for whatever reason - if Silva gets the gig I'll be right behind him, I just haven't felt any excitement based on his previous success in other countries.

I can't argue with what you've said though.

Paul Birmingham
46 Posted 30/04/2018 at 19:50:02
Jim, @40 and James @42, that would be a good plan and set up if it could be made to happen. Two

All speculation until the club comes clean, on th3 future plans for the club, but that will be the day.

Sam Hoare
47 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:00:27
James@45 I really wanted him instead of Martinez so probably have a bit of 'the one that got away' feeling about him.

There's no safe bets obviously.

For what its worth I think your suggestion of Wenger and Arteta would be excellent though I believe Arsene wants at least a month off when the season finishes to consider options. I imagine (hope) if we do get a new man in this Summer that it will happen the day after the season ends if not before to give the new man time to operate.

Bill Gienapp
48 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:14:42
Taking this with a huge grain of salt. I have zero doubt Fonseca *would* choose Arsenal over us, but I'm skeptical he'll actually be offered the job. At most, I imagine he said he wants to take a beat to evaluate his options, if we have made overtures.
Mike Allison
49 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:20:04
Just to be clear, Everton aren't in a mess and we don't need a massive rebuilding job.

We need a better manager.

If we were in a mess and needed a massive rebuilding job, then we might as well keep Sam, because he's doing ‘the usual Everton' despite us being in a mess and needing a massive rebuilding job.

The way I see it, we've got around 30 decent players, the new manager's job is going to be getting rid of some, not bringing a load more in. The players we've got need a manager who can get more out them individually and get them working to a clear plan as a team.

Any manager who doesn't really want to come, and any manager who thinks he needs a load of new signings (and I think this includes Sam) is not suitable for the role.

The man we want is the one who rocks up, looks at our squad and says, “sure, I can do something with these guys.”

Dermot Byrne
50 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:25:32
Enough sense Mike #49!

Several of us can deliver Drama Queen lessons if needed.

Mark Murphy
51 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:25:37
I'm not happy about it but I have a strong feeling Sam Allardyce WILL be in charge next season.
Ho hum!
Johan Elmgren
52 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:27:29
Mike 49, absolutely spot on!
Paul Tran
53 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:32:34
Jim #10, in the present CL campaign, Shakhtar beat Napoli, Man City and Feyenoord twice in the group stage, then beat Roma at home before losing on away goals.

That looks good to me, I'd have some of that.

Tony Everan
54 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:40:32
The Wenger/Arteta idea is growing on me by the day.

A wise old head and a wise young head. It could be a dream team. Arsene is getting on a bit but there is nobody on the planet who knows more about creating a team capable of qualifying for the CL in the Prem league . He knows what it takes and can lay the foundations for us.

Wenger for a season or maybe two, then Arteta takes over and leads us for a year before we move to the BMD.

Year 4 sees Mikel challenging for the top 4 in our first season at the new stadium.

James Flynn
55 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:46:58
It's NOT Silva?

Watford owners went public about Moshiri's unsettling him contributed to his dismissal.

I'd say he's Mosh's form horse until something else tangible occurs.

Mike Gaynes
56 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:47:51
TW is turning into the Emery Board.

Forgive the cold water, folks, but there is no way in hell Unai is coming here. From three straight Europa titles to Paris to, uh, this? Not hardly.

Mike #49, that's a top corner volley right there.

Kevin Tully
57 Posted 30/04/2018 at 20:57:28
Give that Liverpool side to Allardyce or Moyes, and they'd have them playing a completely different game. They would have tried to stop City playing their game, rather than going at them. Allarmoyes took the Champions to a heady 7th spot.

That's the difference right there. Safety first survivalists. Martinez didn't try to play like these attacking managers either, like some would have you believe, he tried to keep possession until the opposition fell asleep.

Silva is well worth a shout. The players at Hull and Watford couldn't speak highly enough of the man and his methods. Whoever comes in though, they can't have Betty's lad on the blower three times a day. A new broom to sweep away everything that has gone before is required. There is nothing left of the past 23 years any successful manager will need to retain.

Mike Gaynes
58 Posted 30/04/2018 at 21:03:26
Speaking of Watford, anybody who needs a Deulofeu fix should turn on the Watford/Spurs game now. Geri's warming up to sub on.
James Stewart
59 Posted 30/04/2018 at 21:37:07
Guillem Balague is a prat of the highest order with zero connections to anyone in Spain let alone Ukraine. Next.
Peter Gorman
60 Posted 30/04/2018 at 21:39:28
Tony@38

"Newsflash EFC are a big club only in the eyes of our own fans. We are none entities on the continent and barely thought of here in the UK. It's sad guys but true."

Whether or not that is true I think the 6 million little things a year Moshiri likes throwing around will have more say than either you or me. Unless of course we are unable to find a 'top' manager who doesn't like money and Hell freezes over.

You may even be right that Big Sam is going nowhere but that is not the same thing as saying he should or shouldn't.

Dermot Byrne
61 Posted 30/04/2018 at 21:40:19
Just in case my reply to Mike #49 was misinterpreted, best post on thread.

As for new boss seriously, has anyone got a clue? Big names will not come. And I reckon that is good.

To me, a hungry up-and-comer is what is needed. And not some once good player aka Gerrard/Rangers.

So Bournemouth and guys abroad who I don't know.

But passionately ambitious for themselves is what we need Imho.

Just not a if ya know our history" type that takes Bk go on a personal nostalgia trip.

Moshiri test this one.

Peter Gorman
62 Posted 30/04/2018 at 21:41:35
Thanks but no thanks for the Deulofeu fix, Mike. If I want to see a pretty little blonde fall over for the next 10 minutes I will go and play with my 2 year old niece.
Dermot Byrne
63 Posted 30/04/2018 at 21:47:16
Tony #38: we may disagree re Sam but rest of what you write is bang on.

But, don't wallow. I still believe my many posts that Moshiri has a medium term plan and it is all about new ground.

Then we buy.

Until then we need PL money...hence Sam

Seriously, watch 2019/2020.

But if it fails, then who knows.

I do think Moshiri and chums know what they are doing long term. Until then, as I have said often, we eat shit.

Ian Hollingworth
64 Posted 30/04/2018 at 21:57:56
Sadly Tony (38) is spot on.
We need a new Chairman first.
Mike Gaynes
65 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:05:23
Good 'un, Peter.
Colin Glassar
66 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:15:36
Has anyone given Alan Pardew a thought?
Steve Ferns
67 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:23:28
When you guys nominate your preferred choice for manager can you at least elaborate on why. You need to take into account what the manager will actually do, and how he can bring (relative) success.

Let me start with Ancelotti. He is one of the greatest managers of all time He's won the top flight in four of the big five leagues, only failing to complete an unprecedented record of all five by finishing second with Real Madrid.

He would be a terrible fit for Everton though. He relies on money to buy the best players, and then he excels on managing the egos and keeping everyone happy. Tactically he's very good, but he's not the best. Training wise he's very relaxed, so relaxed that Bayern Munich (with whom he'd just won the league) sacked him because the players were doing out of club training to get their fitness levels to what they enjoyed under Guardiola. His training style is considered very passive, and so his skillset does not fit what we have at the club.

I want to see the opposite of an Ancelotti, someone like Pochettino who would come in and work the players hard. Get fitness levels to an extreme level. We do have the players to accommodate a high tempo game (Pickford, Coleman, Jagielka, Holgate, Gueye, Davies, Sigurdsson, Walcott, Tosun, Calvert-Lewin, Niasse would all put in a good shift in such a style).

We also need someone to continue the good work Allardyce has undoubtedly done with the defence. It looks a lot more solid now. Sure, a lot of that comes from having the "Moyes 3" in the team, but credit where it's due, we look more able to keep a clean sheet than we have for a while. This would need to continue. The problem with Allardyce's training is that he himself says that he works on the defence and leaves it up to the players as to how they create chances in the final third. so like a reverse Martinez, he doesn't bother with the attack.

Of all the candidates mentioned above, Marco Silva is the one who can come in and work with this group of players and get them playing better. If you disagree, I invite you to watch the training videos on youtube of sporting, Olympiacos, Hull and Watford. You'll see an energetic guy, buzzing in training and teaching the players and getting his message across.

Those who concentrate on Silva with Hull miss a major factor. Silva was only in charge for 18 games. Hull got 21 points from 18 games. They'd have stayed up if they did that over 38 games. They were the 14th best side from his appointment to the end of the season, and 5 points better off in that form table than West Brom, who were in freefall after they had briefly threatened us for 7th that season. So, sure call his time at Hull a failure. I would say that he did very well, but was appointed too late to have a fair crack at staying up.

When Koeman was sacked, Watford were 6th, after 9 games, and had 15 points. They were 8th, after 14 games with 21 points when Allardyce was appointed and after the crucial "destabilising period". Since then, the form table shows Watford 17th and with 17 points from 22 games. So you could argue that Silva's skills had Watford in an inflated position and they've really struggled without him.

Is Silva going to be a success at Everton? Who knows? Is Silva a gamble? Most definitely. There's plenty of questions to answer. The guy has had a golden run throughout pretty much his entire career. That is the miracles he performed to take Estoril up as Champions, putting them 5th and taking them into Europe, putting them into 4th the next season, then getting 3rd and winning the cup with Sporting, then winning the record breaking title for Olympiacos. He'd never had a rough spell. Even Hull, he hit the ground running, it all went to plan, and then they ran out of steam at the end, and once they lost a couple the team were doomed and gave up.

Watford had a sticky pitch, caused by us turning his head or not, and he never corrected it. Had he been able to see out the season with Watford then I would have been interested to see how he did.

You've also got the thing where a new guy comes in, with an infectious personality, a lot of energy and a lot of new and interesting ideas. He can make things happen. For me this would also describe Roberto Martinez. That first season, all of the players had big smiles on their faces, Phil Jagielka was describing pre-season training with a telling statement, "he even got the ball out!" (perhaps a more telling indictment on Moyes). The question is what happens when these ideas aren't new, when the personality is not infectious and energetic to you anymore, but annoying, when the ideas don't seem to work. Can Marco Silva win the players back around?

Another name I throw into the mix is Julian Nagelsmann. He was certain to get the Bayern job, only he didn't. He is in the running for Arsenal, but seems likely to be too leftfield an appointment. At an unbelievable 30 years old, he seems far too young for a club of the stature of Arsenal with the big egos they have in their dressing room, especially when you consider he is basically the same age as Ozil.

Instead can we not tempt him to Everton? Has he not taken Hoffenheim as far as he can? Can we not offer him a new and exciting challenge (don't laugh), bigger wages than he'd get at Bayern (that is a given because Allardyce is on more), and free reign to try his innovative style of coaching including building a TV wall at Finch Farm, and letting him revolutionise the place.

Sure, there's even more questions with this guy, and unlike Silva he hasn't won anything. I like what I see, I like what I've read, and I would be very interested to see the young German at Everton.

All of that said, I believe Fonseca may be keeping his hat in the ring for Arsenal, but undoubtedly he is not a big enough name, they will go for a bigger name, and he'll be left to come back and talk to us again.

Which of those three would I personally go for, I'm not sure. But I do believe Silva is best on the training ground and he could make these players into a side that we would all not think possible, and if anyone could crack the top 6 next season, then it's him.

Brian Williams
68 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:23:36
I did Col, today, while I was having a dump!
Steve Ferns
69 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:33:07
Can I also add that with regards to Silva there is a very long list of players who credit him with making them a better player. This includes everyone at Hull who has nothing but good words to say about him, and even Watford. Richarlison in particular went out of his way to praise Silva's coaching.

Fonseca's style at Shaktar is hard to determine, the videos are too brief and he is only ever stood around laughing and joking. Maybe this is signs of a passive coach? I doubt it, he's got a great reputation as an energetic young coach with progressive thinking.

Peter Gorman
70 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:36:23
Steve, I like that challenge and even more your out-of-the-box suggestion of Julian Nagelsmann. A truly impressive record but I must admit I've not actually seen much of their football other than to see it is pragmatic. Do you know if it can also entertain? If so, it would be an interesting punt indeed.

My own choice in the vein of an up-and-comer is realistically Eddie Howe if we can not unearth a gem like Nagelsmann. Why? because for all the naivety occasionally shown by his side, his record at Bournemouth is impressive, he encourages the blooding of young talent and hungry players with a point to prove, his side have won more points from behind than any other side in the league (so better than any Martinez comparisons that can be made if tempted) and obviously gives everything for the club and can forge a team of players to do the same.

I am not suggesting he can lead Everton to top of the league or anything like that but only that I'd far rather see someone like him given a chance to spend Moshiri's millions than Allardyce. I also doubt it'd be a chance he could easily turn down for all Tony Marsh's inside knowledge or the Howe household.

Steve Ferns
71 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:45:31
I'm not sold on Howe at all. I see him as an English Martinez. I didn't want Martinez for the same reasons most others didn't and in the end we sacked him for those very reasons. However, I was a big fan once he got going and that first season was the best I've enjoyed since the 80s I can forgive a couple of lean years (especially going far in cups (QF EL one year, 2 Semis the next)), if we can have something to really savour.

I'm just not convinced that Howe has the strength of personality to really make a big impact. Fonseca is a really charismatic guy, and that will work in our favour for signing players, getting the dressing room behind him, and most importantly, getting the media onside. I envisage a Pep / Poch style love fest, particularly if all is going well. Silva seems boring in his pressers, but he's great 1 on 1, and in singular interviews.

Peter, watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilq5hMy1yZc

Sam Hoare
72 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:45:46
Steve@67&69, you echo (and expand eloquently) on what I said earlier.

Silva is probably my top (realistic) choice. He's an active coach who will be hands on in implementing a new system and style of play which is what we badly need. He's our best chance of finding our own Pochettino. He's also a safer bet than Nagelsmann (who would be a bold and fascinating option). And he's free.

I believe he would get the best out of a lot of our players and get them fit and we'll drilled. My only doubt is that he hasn't stuck around at a club for the last 5 years or so, not built a club up since Estoril. Hopefully he's desperate to do so again.

Alan Johnson
73 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:49:31
Eddie Howe - Long term thinking needed. He would grow into the job, given time to mould the team. As with Shankley he can't swith off from football - Lets start again with Howe. Sure our young talent would love him.
Steve Ferns
74 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:49:45
I think Silva knows he's damaged goods. I think Everton would be a "lay down roots" type club for him. Sure, he might not get past 5 seasons here, but that's a decent spell for most coaches these days.

Is anyone else not picking up on the out of work, and surely desperate to get himself back into work manager never being linked with jobs and when he was he was quick to dismiss them. It's almost as if he knows he's got the Everton job.

Peter Gorman
75 Posted 30/04/2018 at 22:55:40
Steve, I kind of get the comparison with Martinez for the cavalier approach (their goal difference this season speaks for their tendency to have a few shockers, as does ours) but the stat that impressed me was the tendency for Bournemouth to comeback into games which is something I don't really recall ever exactly being a Martinez trait. It speaks volumes to me about Howe's ability to get effort out of his players.

It'd be a bit of a gamble but for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that we are no longer an 'elite' club, it should go without saying that Everton would be a better platform for Howe to showcase his talents than Bournemouth. I do hope we can get someone better but it is not as if Howe would be coming on the back of a relegation like our Martinez.

He would be a respectable B choice.

Steve Ferns
76 Posted 30/04/2018 at 23:04:34
I do understand Peter. The thing we also have to accept with Martinez is that he is the only manager who's come to Everton with a major English trophy in his cabinet since Kendall's return and if you dismiss Kendall's return, when did Everton last appoint a manager who'd won league (I think never) or the Cup (I honestly don't know). So Martinez is too easily dismissed as a relegated manager and not given the praise he should for beating Man City and winning the cup.

My Dad really wants Howe. He thinks he's everything you put forward. So I see your argument. I just think Siva has a bit more Charisma, knows how to win things, knows how to handle the media better, has managed the biggest club in the country (Olympiacos in Greece) and so knows what life is like under the microscope. I also think he's more pragmatic than Howe, has a tendency to be more flexible, in terms of setup, tactical formation, and tactical implementation. In other words, he can play more than one way.

Tony Marsh
77 Posted 30/04/2018 at 23:12:58
Peter @ 6

The fact that Moshiri can offer ٤M-a-year salaries to prospective managers didn't do us any good when Koeman got the bullet, did it? We ended up with Allardyce who was 10th choice or something, wasn't he??

The elite managers can get top money anywhere they decided to go, mate.They don't need Everton or Moshiri like we need them. Money is one thing but for guys in the elite managers' sphere who already have more money than a lottery winner, these guys need success, ambitions, silverware, direction, a club that will serve their egos. Unfortunately EFC can not give anyone anything worthwhile to work with. Just look at Goodison Park – it speaks volumes about our club.

When Moshiri had his chance, at best he could only come up with a washed up Dutch man like Koeman who did only come here for the money. Is that what you want, Peter, a tosser not fit for purpose – just here on a fleecing mission??

A club like Everton throwing big money around while having zero else to offer will end up in big trouble... Leeds Utd are proof of that.

John Daley
78 Posted 30/04/2018 at 23:32:01
I don't really see how the 'Martinezesque' label can be said to suit Howe more than it does Silva.

Hull conceded the second most goals in the division during Silva's spell there. His Watford side were similarly fragile, conceding more goals in the final 15 minutes of games than any other Premier League outfit and consequently dropping the most points from winning positions.

Seen that shit somewhere before, on what seemed like a continuous loop for the best part of two seasons.

Jay Harris
79 Posted 30/04/2018 at 23:37:50
Anyone who doesnt think the squad needs a major overhaul is not thinking top 6.
The current squad are perennial bottlers under 3 different managers. There are not enough winners in the squad
Our best players are all getting too old so there isn't good enough quality for top 6.
Keane has no concentration or awareness and that cant be coached into people.
Tosun maybe knows where the net is but can you really see him as a 30 goal a season striker.

Where are our goals from MF. Rooney is a spent force, Davies is a WIP and apart from Walcott who else can provide the goals we need.

Nobody can coach these things into players. Maybe improve them a touch but you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

For example could you see Pep Guardiola even threatening the top 6 with this squad.

They are Moyes/Allardyce type of players. Honest pros but nothing more.

John Daley
80 Posted 01/05/2018 at 00:16:36
Steve,

Given your belief that what is required right now is a 'proper' coach who will simply crack on out on the training pitch and, for the most part, will be happy to work at improving the squad he is handed, without an influx of personally selected new signings providing a springboard, what is your take on the following 'concerns' raised about Silva's managerial style?

"Silva's work on the training ground, particularly his attention to detail and tactical preparation, has been very impressive since he joined from Hull City last summer, but there are frustrations about other aspects of his methodology. There is some concern that the 40-year-old may have alienated several players because he habitually freezes out those he believes do not fit with his philosophy.

Stefano Okaka, Étienne Capoue and Sebastian Prödl have barely played, for example, which has caused some consternation as Watford do not have a big enough squad to accommodate individuals being ostracised.

The treatment of Okaka is particularly curious. He scored and played well in the first game of the season against Liverpool, but was not seen again for almost two months, despite being fully fit. Unsurprisingly, the Italian striker wants to leave, but with Troy Deeney and Andre Gray the only other forwards at the club, it is unlikely that he will be sold this month.

The way in which Silva has handled Gray has also raised eyebrows. Watford's record signing has been in and out of the side and was dropped after scoring his first goal for the club in a win against Swansea in September. The 26-year-old is a confidence player, yet Silva has made it no secret that the former Burnley striker was not his first-choice signing last summer, and that he wanted to sign Islam Slimani from Leicester City. Despite dominating many matches, Watford have been short of goals.

Those who have dealt with Silva regularly throughout a short, itinerant career describe an apparent contradiction in his methodology. Despite being an outstanding coach, he is also an old fashioned cheque-book manager, who will always look to the transfer market to solve any perceived problems.

Such an outlook has led to inevitable tension at Watford, whose model relies on the players being bought by the club at the recommendation of Filippo Giraldi, the technical director, and Andy Scott, the UK recruitment director, with the head coach asked to make the best of his resources."

Taking into account how well received Koeman's refined 'feather touch' (befitting some clumsy fucker with big Hulk hands) toward squad players he didn't fancy was, and your own recent worries about the possibility of any new Sporting Director/DoF & manager duo perhaps seeing splashing out on new players as being the sole means of problem solving, is there nothing there that induces a slight twinge of doubt in your (seemingly dead set) belief that Silva is the candidate best suited to the club at this point in time?

Steve Ferns
81 Posted 01/05/2018 at 00:18:08
John, Silva is very different to Martinez. He doesn't favour possession football. He prefers a higher tempo game. Sure it is attacking, but prior to Hull, he was renowned for having a strong defence and the comparisons were all with Mourinho.
Brian Porter
82 Posted 01/05/2018 at 00:22:39
Going back to the Op, I can't help feeling we've fallen victim yet again to Moshiri's naivety and prevarication. He had the chance to sack Allardyce a couple of weeks ago when it should have been clear to him how strong the feelings of the fans were, and could have given Fonseca, if he really was his number one target, an offer he couldn't refuse, long before Wenger announced his departure from Arsenal.

Yet again, we fail to strike with decisiveness and our loss will be someone else's gain. I have really lost all faith in Moshiri, who appears like a little boy lost in a playground full of bigger, more street-wise kids.

We are never going to be able to make progress until he learns that in the cut and thrust world of modern football, prevarication and indecisiveness leads nowhere fast.

Steve Ferns
83 Posted 01/05/2018 at 00:24:23
John, I'm not dead set on anything. I keep throwing Nagelsmann's name into the conversation for that reason. I would also welcome the appointment of Fonseca. Should we appoint any of the unrealistic names such as Sarri (my ultimate preference), Jardim, Emery, or Simeone, then I'd be delighted.

Where did you get your source from describing Silva as a chequebook manager, because that's ridiculous. As for alienating players, don't all managers do that, you can only pick 11 in the side, even those on the bench will be unhappy. What you don't hear is criticism of his coaching.

Mike McNeil
84 Posted 01/05/2018 at 01:06:09
The whole chain of command needs sorting out. We need a complete transformation. I'd even get rid of Z-Cars. It sounds like an old tape that's stretched and not playing right – a bit like our team.

Kenwright must surely go in August (with my eternal thanks, I might add) leaving his shares to be bought by someone. Who would that be? Well, Usmanov looks a good bet. He sponsors Finch Farm. Is bessie mates with Farad. So then we've got two ex-Arsenal blokes owning our club. They need to appoint a new chief exec, DoF and manager.

Arsene must surely figure in that somewhere. Farad is a businessman with a development plan. Buy low sell high. He and Usmanov trust each other, they'd surely trust Wenger and Wenger would trust them. The question is what role. But there's no doubt he'd deliver the transformation of our plucky club, get rid of the "we are serial overachievers" and "knife to a gunfight" mentality. And that's regardless of role. But I'd go ask him what it'd take to come and drive our transformation. Then I'd move heaven and earth to give him those things. Money authority budget role whatever he wants. I'd even give him the role of CEO.

If we can't get him in the manager role, then it's Dyche for me. He's smart, determined, gets players to play for him. Firm but fair. I find him a bit like Fergie was 20-odd years ago. I don't want any of these fancy Dan bollox from Portugal because they can come 2nd in a three-horse race. Dyche gets British footy and he's got the grit to get it done.

Derek Thomas
85 Posted 01/05/2018 at 01:24:57
Steve Ferns @ 82; I don't know Nagelsmann, or half of them others from adam, but I do know 2 key points on being a manager.

The first is easy - at first glance, but really hard; Get better players than you already have.

The second is easy when said quickly, but really hard in practice; keep the players thus displaced on the bench and not playing happy, thats the real measure of a manager, just ask Niasse, Lookman.

All the rest is just training ground 101, attitude, yours and their's; fitness, form and the biggest inponderable of them all...Luck.

Moshiri may be a wizz at balancing a set of figures...but a Club or a squad??? He hasnt twigged yet that in football 2+2 can, sometimes, = 5 or 3 or in our case just recently zero.

Edit; Fonseca or anybody else looking at following Wenger, just remember 2 words Ferguson - Moyes.

John Daley
86 Posted 01/05/2018 at 01:26:22
Steve,

The qouted passage (and 'cheque book manager' sobriquet I felt pretty sure would have you coughing and spluttering...... soz, couldn't resist) came from this piece in the Times:

Link

Don Alexander
87 Posted 01/05/2018 at 01:27:21
Steve (#82 and elsewhere), I don't think all of our senior players are unhappy not to be picked. I think we have more than a few players who've for years realised that with us they've reached the zenith of their earnings in their careers and who therefore happily slip out of top gear until the end of their current contract comes into focus. At that stage they'll maybe pull their finger out. It's an attitude that encapsulates very many modern "professionals" in my opinion, and it disgusts me.
Don Alexander
88 Posted 01/05/2018 at 01:41:31
John (#84 and elsewhere), your link demands we provide Murdoch's Times with our personal details as he seeks to screw money from us. On that basis I refuse to subscribe to what he wants and therefore can't see the whole article. That said, the first part of the article you rely on to sustain your argument seems to be the mere opinion of a journalist and as we all know you're way above accepting mere opinion where cold hard fact is available, so what are the cold hard facts in the article re Silva being a cheque-book manager please?
Soren Moyer
89 Posted 30/04/2018 at 01:44:55
I would also add Marcelino of Valencia and Leandro Jardim from Monaco to the list of candidates mentioned by Steve Ferns.
Bill Gienapp
90 Posted 01/05/2018 at 01:56:45
As always, I thoroughly enjoy Steve Ferns's in-depth managerial analysis. Even if you don't agree with his conclusions, he offers a detailed, well-reasoned argument and it's clear he's done his homework.
John Daley
91 Posted 01/05/2018 at 03:32:17
Enlighten me, Don,

What "argument" am I looking to "sustain", how am I 'relying' on anything and to what end?

I simply asked Steve for his take on a view expressed in an article (by someone else other than me, clearly), as it relates to something he and I have discussed before regarding both Marco Silva and Marcel Brands.

"...as we all know you're way above... "

[The following link has been approved 'man of principle'/minge-bag friendly]
Link

Steve Brown
92 Posted 01/05/2018 at 04:27:54
If Fonseca has turned us down, then good. Emery is the man we should target.

Silva's behaviour during his Watford stint showed he is a bit of a mercenary.

John Keating
93 Posted 01/05/2018 at 05:45:49
Since we're throwing out names, many of which are totally unrealistic, what about Brendon Rodgers ?
Mike Gaynes
94 Posted 01/05/2018 at 06:13:10
Brian #81, "prevarication" means lying. I think you meant something else. Equivocation, perhaps?

John #91, thanks for throwing out that name. Straight into the garbage can.

Steve #90, Emery's definitely the manager we should want, and that skinny Brazilian winger he's got in Paris would be an ideal addition to our forward line. And neither is coming to Everton.

Amit Vithlani
95 Posted 01/05/2018 at 07:41:34
"Has anyone given Alan Pardew a thought?"

Yes Colin, and the problem is that particular thought swiftly brings on a fit of uncontrollable hysterics. Dangerous to one's health if handling machinery, driving or, god forbid, with bodies intertwined in an amourous embrace with one's wife. I sense you are a fellow sufferer.

Andrew Ellams
96 Posted 01/05/2018 at 09:26:13
Can anybody explain why Arteta would give up the chance of coaching some of the best players in the world at City to join Everton and coach Cuco Martina or Ashley Williams?
Steve Brown
97 Posted 01/05/2018 at 09:36:18
Mike 92 #, we'll see! If they hire him I think you will be rather pleased.
Steve Brown
98 Posted 01/05/2018 at 09:36:53
Emery that is, not the skinny Brazilian kid.
Bob Parrington
99 Posted 01/05/2018 at 09:55:35
Thinking of the "future" manager, perhaps the following perspective should be taken.

IMO
We don't want a person that we go to cap-in-hand. Do we? We are Everton and proud about it. For Fonseca it's obvious to spurn us for the chance at Arsenal. "hey, if I don't get the position there's always Everton!"
Arsenal looks to be the better opportunity, at least on EPL history and on paper! So, why not.

So, what do we want for us. IMO we want a manager that sees Everton as a greater team of the future. Somebody with a dream and "big balls!" One whose prepared to take a chance, to stake his/her name on it!

Take a hit. Take a lower salary but with big achievement bonuses and get stuck in to sorting out the on-field performances! Moshiri - work on incentives for success!

Does this have to be a "so-called" current successful manager or not?

Maybe, maybe not.

But please, let's not go with a "begging bowl" to anybody!

Martin Nicholls
100 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:02:20
Andrew Ellams (#94) – a question I've also posed! On another thread, I recall someone suggesting we keep Allardyce for the remaining 12 months of his contract and appoint Arteta as his assistant! I'm sure "the best little Spaniard we know" would jump at the chance of working for Fat Sam rather than stay as understudy to Pep!!
Steve Ferns (#67) – another well thought out and argued post. Well done.
Colin Glassar
101 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:06:26
Andrew, would you really give up the chance to work with Williams and Martina and work with a bunch of snotty nosed kids like Sane, Jesus and DeBruyne?
Dave Williams
102 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:28:56
A good point was made on TalkSport this morning: five Premier League teams could be looking for new managers this close season – Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester, West Ham and ourselves .

Being a life-long supporter, I would like to think we would be battling with Arsenal and Chelsea, but the realism in me thinks it be against the other two...

Laurie Hartley
103 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:35:29
John # 84 (+89) - You are awful.

Boom


Tony Everan
104 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:35:47
Silva is the most realistic choice.

Young, hungry and ready to build a dynasty.

His record has blemishes, there is no doubt, but there are mitigating circumstances. This fact may be our gain.

If his record was 100% perfect, other clubs would be circling Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and some from abroad. The fact that it went bad at Watford opens a door for us.

Mr Moshiri wanted him as first choice in October willing to pay 5-10million in compensation. Football is fickle and opinions can change over a few games. With Silva, I think it would be wrong to write him off because of a downturn in Watford's form after our relentless pursuit of him last Autumn.

As has been mentioned above, we cannot get into dithering mode and get turned down by Fonseca, Tuchel , Simeone, Sarri, Emery . None of them will come and it does the clubs image no good. It denigrates the eventual manager when he arrives as sixth choice.

Time to take the plunge now and get Silva lined up to start June 1st. Let him plan for the pre season and get one or two new faces in. He would be a breath of fresh air at the club.

He wants the job and is available. I think he has a feeling of destiny about Everton FC. He felt it in October.and was torn to shreds after only signing a contact with Watford ten weeks earlier. It was a difficult situation for him.

Start talks now, the Marco Silva option would make me more confident for advancement in the new season than any other.

Mike Oates
105 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:51:11
Just half way through a biography of Pep Guardiola written in 2016 by a Spanish journalist who spent 3 full years with Pep, day by day whilst he was in Germany with Bayern and in pre-season at Man City.

As an aside his workstyle, football philosophy, player development is on a level we can only ever hope for. He'll never go to a club in its project infancy. He cannot hang about 4-5 years waiting to dramatically change lots of players, he needs top clubs with 60-70% top players already there. The youth/academy systems would take 10 years to develop players he wants for the top level game – Barcelona had it already, no-one else has. He has to have big money power to fill the positions he wants – goalie, pivot man, creative man and pacy wide men.

Anyway back to his views on the best managers out there in 2016 – Klopp is the best by far, then Ranreiri (written before his Leicester success) and finally Fonseca, yes Fonseca - all create superb attacking football teams, based on pressing and then pace. Mourinho is good, but Pep doesn't like the footballing philosophy he uses.

One more aside – he was managing Bayern vs Borussia Dortmund (Klopp) in last few weeks of the 2014/5 season and had 5 injuries to major players. It was either team to win league. Guardiola had to forsake his 4-3-3 to play 5-3-2, won 1-0 and he actually cried, apologised to his players and Klopp after the game for his negative approach and vowed never to do it again – now's there's a man committed to entertaining football.

Fonseca – yes please.

Steve Ferns
106 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:52:54
The journal for the times isn't one I'm familiar with, but I'll assume he's decent.

The players he mentions: Okaka, capoue, and Prodl. Capoue is a well known sulker and trouble maker, Okaka has had disciplinary issues, and has been considered a bad apple. Prodl though is meant to be a good professional.

The Chequebook accusation is totally unfounded. As the guy writes in the full article, it's the DoF who signs the players. So forget the signings at Watford as they'd have been made whoever is in charge, at Hull, Olympicaos, Sporting and Estoril he never spent more than 7 figures. In fact 32 signings (including loans) in 7 years. That's just over 4 a season.

The journo does raise valid issues, such as what it say Brands signs players he doesn't like, will he moan about them in public and upset the player like he did with gray. But gray again is hardly a model pro. Perhaps this was due to other issues.

I'd be happy with Silva did upset players like Mirallas and Schneiderlin and ostracized them, for not training hard enough or being committed (picked on them due to their past issues).

No one denies Silva is not an outstanding coach. He would work with a DoF and allow Brands to make the signings.

Sure, there's big questions about him, but doesn't that apply to everyone we could get. Even Tuchel who is supposed to be out of reach has massive questions about him. Whoever we appoint is a gamble. They need to suit the players we have, or Moshiri will have to get his chequebook out. If I'm right, and he doesn't want to do so, then hire a manager who can work with these players and coach them and make them better players. This is something Silva is frequently commended for. So a gamble worth taking for me.

Steve Ferns
107 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:56:55
Mike, which book is that? Is it the one that details Pep going over to Argentina and discussing management and tactics with Bielsa before taking the Barcelona job. He ends up staying the night and Bielsa has the entire garden furniture in the garden demonstrating tactics. It's a good book. Very interesting and enlightening.
Iain Johnston
108 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:57:43
This is taken from the same Times article:

HISTORY REPEATING FOR WATFORD

"2015-16 They were seventh on December 20 after four straight wins, but then won four more from their next 21 games. Quique Flores was sacked at the end of the season.

2016-17 Again, they were seventh in mid-December, with 21 points. They won two of their next 12 matches and Walter Mazzarri was sacked at the end of the season.

2017-18 They won four of their first eight games, only losing to Manchester City. They reached fourth temporarily, before winning three of their next 12 games. At one stage, they took one point from 18 before beating Leicester City."

Could it be a club problem rather than one caused by team management?

Odds are that Silva's replacement will be disposed of just as swiftly in the summer. Their board don't do continuity, so what's the point of any of their managers putting down roots or planning for the future?

For me Silva was on a hiding to nothing at Watford, I'm more inclined to think that he took the job on a two-year contract in order to keep his foot in the Premier League door, nothing more. I also believe that given the chance at a larger club with realistic ambition, maybe Europe or a domestic trophy, he'd commit to a longer contract than he's done in the past.

He's not my first, second or even third choice who are Emery, Mancini or Dyche but he's the top of my list if it was a choice between him, Allardyce or Fonseca.

Len Hawkins
109 Posted 01/05/2018 at 10:59:23
Newsflash!!! Kevin Davies sacked by Southport.
Michael Lynch
110 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:01:18
As Tony says @102, we shouldn't allow this to become another few months of dithering while all the unrealistic and unenthuasiastic targets like Emery, Simeone, Tuchel, Wenger, Ancelotti, and even Fonseca etc turn us down flat one by one.

So if that leaves us with trying to prise Howe from Bournemouth, or going back to Silva, I'm not convinced either of them would do a better job than Allardyce. Silva had a handful of decent games at Hull before they were relegated, and the same at Watford before they went on a ten-game winless run. Howe seems to be just another half-decent English manager over-achieving at a small club.

If we can't get one of the top names being bandied about, and get them quickly, I believe we should get some clarity asap and allow the current management team to get on with it.

Brian Harrison
111 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:06:00
With this being a World Cup year Moshiri needs to make any new appointment very quickly after the season finishes, thats assuming he wont stick with Allardyce which he may. Trying to sign players before they join their respective Countries will be difficult, maybe not if you are a Champions league club, but for those clubs like us who arent it will be even more difficult. Many players will know that the World Cup is their shop window, and how often have we seen players virtually unknown before the World Cup get transfers they couldn't have dreamed of before the World Cup.

So with this in mind if we do sack Allardyce then I think having someone who knows the Premier league may be even more important than ever. To me Marco Silva ticks all the boxes, young attack minded coach has won Cups and Leagues, and knows the Premier league. He will also know most of our players, so he isn't starting from scratch as possibly a foreign coach might have too. This next appointment needs to be right, so make sure the new man if we are to get one plays in a style that the fans can get behind, someone whose teams play on the front foot. Also wont change his style to a more defensive one when we play a top 6 side. I don't see Guardiola or Conte or Klopp changing their style for any game. I remember Ray Wilkins who was commentating on the Chelsea v Watford game earlier in the season. He said if he hadnt have witnessed what he had seen he wouldnt have believed it, he said Watford completely out footballed Chelsea from start to finish, and he said how Chelsea got out of this game with a draw is amazing. So again another tick to Silva away at a top 4 team and went at them from the first whistle, isn't that what we have been crying out for.

Franny Porter
112 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:15:48
Brian Harrison you make a very convincing argument for Marco Silva and I have to agree, having previously favoured Fonseca for no other reason than he is "fancier".

I hope to God Moshiri does not stick with Sam, that would just be an absolute kick in the Jedwards.

Steve Ferns
113 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:34:37
The times Journo also says Everton offered £15m for Silva. Why offer £15m and then just a few games later be of the opinion that he's no longer good enough? The board should have courage in its convictions. That is unless they pull off a master stroke and land a managerial giant we thought impossible.
Sam Hoare
114 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:38:12
All this talk about new managers is getting me excited and yet it would appear at the moment that most likely scenario is Allardye staying next season. I sort of understand Moshiri thinking that coming and saying Allardyce will be sacked might undermine our efforts to finish the season strongly and yet it feels an other case of lack of leadership and direction and decisiveness.

Surely they must know what they want to do by now!?

Either come and out and say Allardye will be here next season or say thanks very much Sam, you've done a decent job, lets give you a civil goodbye at Goodison and start talking to the people who might take over the day after the season finishes.

Tony Marsh
115 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:40:34
I don't want Allardyce as Everton manager but he is here and I am prepared to give him a chance until he has at least 6 of his own players in any starting 11. Moyes was afforded 11 years at this club; it was after 3 or 4 seasons that I gave up on Moyes. It was obvious Davey boy lacked the winner's mentality and the football was dire.

Sam Allardyce has dragged the club into a respectable Premier League position with the utter dross squad of players brought in by Walsh & Koeman — a task many on here thought impossible. In any sound business brain, the achievements made in the Premier League placing since Allardyce took over would warrant a proper crack at the job, regardless of the style of play. Results-based ethos is all that counts.

We can all see that the football we are currently playing is horrible to watch but very few fans in the Premier League are happy with their teams' style of play. We are definitely more solid at the back so maybe we can build from there?

Just ask Man Utd fans if they are happy about not playing attractive football under Jose Mourinho; they are 2nd in the table and won two trophies last season. Only Liverpool and Man City fans and possibly Spurs fans are really happy with what their teams produce on the pitch. The rest of the other clubs' fans are either happy to stay up or moan about being shite. That's the Premier League in a nutshell.

So is it right to sack a manager because his style of play is crap even though it gets results?? Dyche & Mourinho as examples?? I ask you all why would Moshiri sack Allardyce when Sam is currently rated 6th best in the Premier League manager ratings and it was Moshiri himself that indicated he expects Everton to lose certain games?? What is Allardyce doing wrong in the eyes of the owner?? Moshiri probably doesn't understand football enough to know what awful football is!!!

I think a huge dose of reality tablets are required on here, Guys. Like him or not, Allardyce has exceeded expectations thus far and I cannot see how any of our fans consider Sam Allardyce sackable. Some of you assuming it's already a done deal that Allardyce is getting the bullet yet he has done his job and then some.

Moshiri must be happy to still be in the Premier League as Allardyce was brought in on a rescue mission. It was looking very bleak late in 2017 and some of you are quick to forget that fact. Like I have said previously, we are not an attractive proposition to fancy foreign type manager so I can't see how at this moment in time sacking Allardyce makes sense.

Name-drop all you want but the sensible fans know our limitations – hence Allardyce being here in the first place.

Steve Ferns
116 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:43:08
Sam, if your namesake remains in charge then he needs a new and longer contract or he's lacking authority. It would be madness to let a manager see out his contract and move him on. If he's to be let go next summer, Moshiri would let him go now. Notice that Allardyce never said he was in talks to extend his contract? I think that tells us everything.

Also, if it's Allardyce and Brands, then Allardyce is coach only. Allardyce is not a good coach, that's why he's got Shakespeare in. I can't see Allardyce being happy to have such a reduced role with someone who is not his mate (brands instead of Walsh) in charge of transfers.

Sam Hoare
117 Posted 01/05/2018 at 11:56:39
Steve, I hope you're right. Silva for me.
Philip Bunting
118 Posted 01/05/2018 at 12:26:00
Steve...for 6mill a year I'd be Brands mate. Make no mistake about that.
Ian Hollingworth
119 Posted 01/05/2018 at 12:36:37
Mike (105) you've just sold Fonseca to me.
Now the little matters of getting a new Chairman, CEO and some decent players.
Phil Walling
120 Posted 01/05/2018 at 12:53:00
Silva would have walked out of Watford but his results were so abysmal they eventually sacked him for buggering them about !

This smacks of Koemanitis to me and, if appointed he will only serve to extend the mess and muddle Moshiri has brought to our club.

I never dreamed I would say it but I honestly believe Kenwright to be a better head man !

Craig Walker
121 Posted 01/05/2018 at 12:59:38
I want to believe the hype with Marco Silva but I'm not convinced. In his time at Hull and Watford, he was in charge for 42 games. He won 13, drew 8 and lost 21. Goals for 53 and Goals Against 80. His Watford team were 2-0 up against us and threw it away. He got some good performances against teams like Liverpool but then, so too did Martinez with Wigan. I'd take him over Allardyce because I think we'd play better football and it's be entertaining but Everton is a club that expects results and performances and I'm not sure he would hack it at Goodison.

Sadly, I think Tony Marsh is right and Allardyce will be in the dugout in August. If we're playing Football Manager then I'd go for Wenger/Arteta, Emery, Benitez, Mancini, Fonseca, Silva, Dyche in that order but as Tony said, most of these names are pie-in-the-sky.

Daniel A Johnson
122 Posted 01/05/2018 at 13:05:58
For the club who so obviously put Silva in its shopping basket its strange how its all gone quiet with him. He's also still out of work.

Is it because hes signed for us and is waiting for the season to finish?

My money is on Silva being in place at the end of the season with Allardyce receiving a nice holiday bonus for his achievements (which is what he wanted all along anyway).

Brian Harrison
123 Posted 01/05/2018 at 13:11:20
Phil

I don't think he buggered them about as you suggest, Everton made an approach to Watford for his services, which they turned down. When asked at numerous press conferences at the time would he take the Everton job, he simply replied he didnt want to discuss it. Now obviously this then had an unsettling effect on him and the Watford players, which Watford ackniowledged. So he was at a club were he had possibly lost the trust of his players, in as much as they realized he wouldnt be hanging around and it went pear shaped.

Even though he was under contract at Watford and they were quite right to reject Evertons offer but in the transient world of football, players and managers all move if the money is right regardless of contracts. He probably felt a bit miffed that he couldnt take on a bigger club, and as I said his players thought well your not committed to us so they sort of downed tools for want of a better phrase. Now you could say why sign a manager who will leave at the prospect of joining a bigger club, but sadly thats the nature of the game.
Hopefully if he did come and was headhunted by a bigger club, that might mean we have won something for him to be headhunted.

Phil Walling
124 Posted 01/05/2018 at 13:24:09
So, Daniel, do you think Sam and Walshy were called to London to be told that if they wanted a pay-off they should keep their traps shut until season's end ?

After all, everyone knows money is the Big Man's god so chances are he will act it out until Moshiri is ready to make his move.

I have to say that in my view whoever gets the poison chalice, they will almost certainly get rich well before any contract is completed so the fun can start over again !

Kim Vivian
125 Posted 01/05/2018 at 14:10:46
I think we will know who the new man is by the final whistle against Soton. Hopefully Sam will get two good results from his final two games but importantly get a respectful farewell at Goodison on Saturday. I hope not to witness behaviour beneath our dignity then despite all the vitriol thrown about on here.
Reading this thread my money would be on Silva but as to who I would pick I'm afraid as a mere supporter I am stuck to choose. There are some thoroughly reasoned posts on here but Mike Allison way back at #49 gets the nod from me.
Rob B Williams
126 Posted 01/05/2018 at 14:13:39
JM 42 'Arteta knows Wenger, Arteta knows Everton, Wenger knows Moshiri and Arteta is learning from Guardiola.'

And Lloyd George knew my father, father knew Lloyd George!!

Ralph Basnett
127 Posted 01/05/2018 at 14:46:06
"Ranked! The 10 most depressing teams to support in Britain right now

Everton fans are well aware that they haven't snagged silverware in more than two decades. So, when Iranian businessman Farhad Moshiri purchased a majority stake in the club in 2016, nobody could blame them for feeling a collective pang of optimism. Finally, the blue half of Merseyside was equipped with the resources to compete with big-spending neighbours Liverpool.

Fast-forward two years and it's all gone horribly wrong. Ronald Koeman paid the price for poor recruitment with his sacking in October 2017, a team largely comprised of failed signings is chasing shadows across the Goodison pitch, and a weather-beaten Sam Allardyce sits on the throne of an empire in turmoil."

The above was from msn sport - says it all really!!!!!

Lawrence Green
128 Posted 01/05/2018 at 15:15:02
Ralph the Echo reports Sam Allardyce has been nominated for the Premier League's Manager of the Month award alongside Darren Moore, Roy Hodgson, Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola.

Everton took eight points from April - ending the month unbeaten - as they followed up successive draws with Swansea and Liverpool by defeating Newcastle and Huddersfield.

See it's not all bad news is it? Could be interesting if he wins it and its presented to him on Saturday!

Mark Taylor
129 Posted 01/05/2018 at 17:18:24
Someone further up made the very valid point that rather than chuck names around, we need to figure out what we are able to offer an incoming manager.

For the first time in a very long time, we have had a part owner who has been willing to 'flash the cash'. Even allowing for incoming money mainly from Lukaku, we spent bigger than we have ever done in the past 12 months, seriously big money, albeit not to any great effect.

But is that it or is there more cash in Moshiri's pocket? If there is, then I don't see why we would not be in with a chance with some of the games biggest managers. The EFL is the richest league in the world and if a club in it has a billionaire owner willing to spend large, not least on the manager's salary, that looks to be a very attractive proposition and perhaps easier to be successful than for example, a Chelsea where not winning trophies gets you the sack.

Problem is, I think Mosh may have blown what he could spare and it is unlikely we will see a repeat. We may have to trade and sell to buy, especially while the new stadium is being built. To my mind, that rules out some of the big names, who tend to like big budgets.

Nagelsman would be an interesting call, but he looks like he will get CL football with Hoffenheim and he becomes a free agent in 2019 so another year in Germany would surely be his preference, unless one of the EFL CL qualifiers come calling.

One guy who doesn't get much of a mention is Leo Jardim at Monaco. Before anyone thinks they are a bigger club that us, the days of big spending are over there and they have to sell their best players every year and turn a profit on sales, something which even Everton are unlikely to have to do. He has brought on some fantastic young players to achieve those mega trading profits, which would also fit, and apparently wants out of Monaco, presumably disillusioned from having his team dismantled every year. I haven't seen him linked seriously with any of the 'bigger' clubs, he seems a bit under the radar, maybe because his English isn't perfect, but that didn't stop Pochettino. He would certainly be a big upgrade on Allardyce if he is not poached by a CL team.

Peter Gorman
130 Posted 01/05/2018 at 18:02:52
Craig Walker @120

"His (Silva's) Watford team were 2-0 up against us and threw it away."

That is true but personally I thought Watford were far the better side in the way Ricarlison, Hughes and Gray? linked up compared to the ineptitude of our forward play but Everton won by simply desiring it more and actually showing a backbone. Didn't hurt having their sub-standard-sub-keeper in goal for the comeback either.

But a win is a win is a win. Out of interest, who get the credit for it? Unsworth or Allardyce?

Liam Reilly
131 Posted 01/05/2018 at 18:14:09
Moshiri won't sack Allardyce without having a replacement lined up (see the Koeman saga). I also can't see him wanting the accolade of having 4 managers in one season; so I suspect Allardyce will be in charge until the seasons end.

it's a scary thought, but if Moshiri can't get his man, then Tony Marsh may be right on Big Sam being on the dugout in Sept.

Mike Gaynes
132 Posted 01/05/2018 at 18:43:42
Mark #129, Jardim has recently been linked with PSG, Chelsea and just yesterday Arsenal. I think the "poaching" is a foregone conclusion.
Steve Ferns
133 Posted 01/05/2018 at 18:48:36
I mentioned Jardim as a desired but unrealistic candidate. He's an outstanding coach.

But last year he beat PSG to the league, ‘‘tis year he should finish second (to PSG) and he's done well in Europe. We haven't a snowball in hells chance of getting him. He wouldn't even pick up the phone to us.

Terry Farrell
134 Posted 01/05/2018 at 20:00:00
I think Silva would be a brilliant punt but how many on here would pledge to keep the knives out of his back for at least a full season. Efc are a powerful unit when we all pull together but the negativity on here and in the ground has to be reversed. And be honest it was bad before Allardyce was appointed
Steve Ferns
135 Posted 01/05/2018 at 21:50:11
Your not wrong Terry. But we need a manager we can believe in, and someone we can unite behind.

Martinez did some great stuff in the first season, but not everyone was lauding him. Then in the second season when the going got tough, the murmurings of discontent started early, whilst some of us wanted to give him all the time in the world to reignite the first season form.

Since then, there's barely been a time when we can all get on board. The managerial selection panel all need to consider what the next manager will be like when the going gets tough. The going always gets tough, just ask "Fraudiola" how many were dismissing him last season, especially in the media who were loving that the world's best coach was failing so badly in England.

If the next manager can lose but lose well, then it will go a long way to keeping the knives out of the back. Personally, I thought Martinez lost a lot of games well, in that we should have won, could have won, and were unlucky. So I don't know what the answer is to losing in a style that the fans can swallow.

Tony Everan
136 Posted 01/05/2018 at 22:02:02
Terry, Steve. How about we break the ice now...

SILVA OUT!

Bjesus Bjesus, Big Sam's team wouldn't have lost to (insert team).

All those who wanted Silva, where I you now? I said all along he was a useless Hull failure.

Look at me, all you Toffewebbers — I was right, you were wrong. Hang your heads in shame.

Bring back Sam!


George Cumiskey
137 Posted 01/05/2018 at 22:18:17
What I love about Tony Marsh's posts is that he always starts with "I don't want Allàrdyce as our manager". Then goes on to give ten reasons why he should be.

Most of the Allàrdyce fans start with the same line.

Mark Taylor
138 Posted 01/05/2018 at 22:29:32
Mike 132, Managers tend to get linked to clubs rather like players do on the transfer rumour bandwagon.Newspapers need stories to sell their product.

Just as an example, you mention PSG but they have been holding talks with Tuchel who is the strong bookies favourite as well as Conte and also have their eye on Allegri and even Mourinho. Jardim is not at the top of their list or even close to it.

So yes Jardim would choose PSG over us but I don't think he is going to have that choice. Nor is he the favourite for either Chelsea or Arsenal, not among the top 5 in the bookies odds. In fact the odds are that his choice will be stay where he is or look outside the very elite clubs and my perception is, he is fed up having to raise hundred of millions in player sales and wants more stability.

At the least, I would be very surprised if his reprentatives didn't pick up the phone, as another poster suggested. Success in one of the world's richest leagues might well be the conduit to a job at a very top club and let's face it, the Ligue just doesn't have the cachet of the EPL, which may be why he isn't among the favourites for any of these big jobs we're talking about.

Steve Ferns
139 Posted 01/05/2018 at 22:36:33
The latest rumours are Leo Jardim to Arsenal, Luis Enrique to Chelsea. It'll probably be the opposite tomorrow. Jardim warrants a Champions League club. He won't settle for us.
Mark Taylor
140 Posted 01/05/2018 at 23:01:16
Steve, then I think he'll have to stay at Monaco because as I say, if you added his odds together for all the clubs you suggest he is linked to, he is a very, very long way short of evens.

And my understanding is that he is not at all happy at Monaco and quite probably not that happy at all the names ahead of him in the bookies odds, which is largely I suspect because he hasn't done much in the CL this year, so is less the flavour of the month, and no-one takes the Ligue very seriously, however well he might do in it.

He may well warrant a CL club because I think he is underrated but that doesn't look likely to be on the table in the current managerial merry go round among the top clubs and what is the point of moving to another second rate league for CL football? That isn't likely to have him talked about for the very top jobs either. Granted he might still turn us down and play a waiting game but I don't think we should under estimate the pulling power of the EFL, especially if Moshiri is able to give him some re-assurances about significant budget being available.

In my view, if we don't aim for someone like him, assuming the very top clubs do turn him down, as I think will prove to be the case, then we might as well stick with Allardyce until the new stadium is built and we are on a more stable financial footing. At least he is likely to keep us in the PL, ugly football nothwithstanding, and I am less sure about that with the likes of Silva and some of the other second string candidates being mentioned.

Steve Ferns
141 Posted 01/05/2018 at 23:21:01
Come on Mark: "then we might as well stick with Allardyce until the new stadium is built and we are on a more stable financial footing. At least he is likely to keep us in the PL, ugly football nothwithstanding"

We have the 7th biggest wage bill by a long shot. We need 7th as a minimum requirement. Aiming to stay in the Premier League is a ridiculous thing to say.

We need a coach who can take over that £250m squad, sort the wheat from the chaff, build a team and a way of playing from it, add a couple of very good quality players into the areas where we are missing (such as left back), and then coach us properly.

Money and transfers are a shortcut to success. You buy what you don't have and make it work. The players still need coaching. A top coach can work with raw materials, especially young players who can be moulded, and can make them into a top side. Which is exactly what Jardim does. Why tread water with Allardyce? What's the point? What's the new stadium going to do? surely, it boosts revenue streams so the investment we've now had is more constant. Then that investment in turn can be used to buy players to improve the side. If we're just going to tread water with Allardyce, then what's the point in watching Everton?

We need to hire an outstanding young coach. It seems certain Brands is in. Let him take care of the recruitment, with or without Walsh, and get an outstanding coach to make the players better and to fashion a team. We have the players to finish 7th next season, especially without the Europa League. Just look at the opposition. Burnley are spluttering now. They will have EL next season, I wouldn't be surprised if they go down as they stretch too thin trying to do both. Leicester will sack Puel, and they are in just as much turmoil as us, and their best player will leave in Mahrez, and their other best player will be asking to get him out too (Vardy). After that it is a very poor league. Wolves might spend a fortune trying to get top 10, but we should have enough to be better than them. No one else is going to be better than us.

7th is ours for the taking next season. But, that's the minimum requirement. We need to close the gap on 6th and take advantage of the turmoil at Arsenal. If they appoint Enrique, then I predict they will drop further. He is a prima dona and is not the manager they need. Spurs might lose Pochettino and if so, they might implode as all the players leave. There's a chance of top 6. We need someone to work with what we have and make them better by good effective coaching. If Allardyce stays, then the man to do that is Shakespeare (Allardyce himself does supervisory stuff, like Koeman). We need someone hands on who can put in the long hard hours, not just coaching but watching lots and lots of tape.

I keep coming back to Silva, but if someone else thinks they have someone who can do all that, then great. I don't care who the manager is as long as he works hard and gets the job done. That wasn't Koeman, and it's not Allardyce / Shakespeare.

James Marshall
142 Posted 01/05/2018 at 23:25:33
On what basis is Allardyce going to get sacked?

He has a 2-year contract and we're 8th. On games played under him, we're 6th.

I can't see why the board would sack him, even if we all want him sacked. The team has improved, and that's a fact.

Can I just point out that I'm not a fan of Allardyce or the way his teams play on any level.

We all want sparkling, winning football but we've mostly had losing football for 25 years so err... I'm not really sure what my point is now, which is a bit like Everton really.

Steve Ferns
143 Posted 01/05/2018 at 23:32:13
James, he had an 18-month contract, 12 months is left. He either gets an extension to that contract as no manager should ever have just 12 months left on the contract, otherwise the players are too unsettled by not knowing the future, and the manager's own authority is undermined.

If Allardyce does not warrant an extension, then, why wait 12 months to release him? Why not release him from his contract now and get the next guy in. I think it's been spelled out many times by many people as to why he should not get an extension, so I won't go into that. He must either get a 12-month extension or be released at the end of the season. There's no third option of letting him see the contract out for me.

Lawrence Green
144 Posted 01/05/2018 at 23:34:39
James (#142), Sam was given an 18-month contract in November so he has just over a year remaining on it, which is why many are saying remove him now or on completion of this season, pay the compensation and appoint somebody else for the longer term. If Sam stays beyond the end of this season, it's likely that he will get an extension on his current deal to stave off the possibility that his authority will diminish as the months go by.

Dennis Stevens
145 Posted 01/05/2018 at 23:39:51
Indeed, Steve, even Wenger isn't allowed his last 12 months at Arse'n'all.
Mark Taylor
146 Posted 02/05/2018 at 00:56:27
Steve,

That is what we were saying before this season. 7th is a doddle and we should chase top 6 given all the money we had spent. But you and I both know that at a certain point in the season, many on here were saying we were favourites for relegation, and I personally think they had a point. We were falling apart. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and of course we can all now wisely say Koeman was crap, Walsh too, but I don't recall too many saying so at the start of the season! And to be fair to Allardyce, even after a rubbish start, he is still looking like finishing 8th, ugly though the football has been, so he's done the job he was brought in to do and done it well in terms of outcome.

I personally want an upgrade on Allardyce, because turmoil or not, these are, or at least may be, different days to those under teary Bill who didn't have two brass farthings to rub together. In hindsight Moyes, who has been ridiculed on here, actually did an amazing job given we were truly skint. Now we supposedly are not skint and so should be aiming higher than Allardyce because we should, if the money really is there, be far more ambitious than thinking about 7th. And if the money is there, people like Jardim – or any of the other bigger names mentioned for the top clubs who don't get a seat when the music stops – should be our goal and I don't believe it at all unachievable because there will be several of them without a seat. An EFL club with money and ambition, if we can actually bring ourselves to aspire to that, to chase a top 4 is not a bad prospect for those who missed out on the most prestigious seats.

Silva is neither here nor there, a big risk in my view in the sense it could again go really pear shaped, as with Koeman. If we might face more straitened circumstances than I am suggesting, and that 𧴜m plus net is pretty much all Moshiri has, then sure, we might have to trade down and bide our time until the new stadium and its revenues are on stream. And under that scenario, Allardyce, plus or minus some coaching staff, may be a safer bet and frankly about all we can aspire to. Treading water, as you say, painful though that would be to revert to.

I've followed Everton for over 5 decades now, some glorious times but most of the last couple of decades have been treading water, because we have been so skint. To be frank, it has been embarrassing and humiliating at times, scratching around for money to buy modest players to scrap for points when we were once, a few decades ago, perhaps the best team in Europe. I'm hoping for better than that now and if Moshiri is serious, which to be fair, is a big if, then we should be able to put forward a proposition that will entice bigger better names than either Allardyce or Silva. If he's not serious then it might be back to the same old, same old and I suspect some more dour football.

Steve Ferns
147 Posted 02/05/2018 at 01:34:01
Mark, I said all the way through the more worrying times that we would not go down. We were never in danger. That's not hindsight. The bookies agreed with me, we were never better (or is that worse?) than 11th favourites to go down. Everyone knew we'd pick up a few wins and get some space to stabilise. I think Unsworth could have done that.

Allrdyce has done the bare minimum for me. I actually said on his appointment that we should still get 7th. A better manager would have beaten Swansea and West Brom, and had we then drawn with Burnley, we'd be well above them now and in 7th. I don't agree that Allardyce has done anything any competent manager could not achieve.

You say Silva is neither here nor there? Based on what? His record is one of success, but people think he had never had a job before Hull, because nothing else exists outside of the Premier League. His record at Estoril was sensational. Champions in his first season, despite taking over after a few games when his predecessor was sacked and they were in trouble. Now that's saving a club,by winning the league in the same season. Then he got 5th in the top division and qualified for Europe. Then he bettered it and got 4th, along the way getting Fonseca the sack from Porto, by initiating a run of three defeats. Then he moved to a big club and won a trophy at a club where Leo Jardim could not. He was sacked for his troubles for wearing the wrong suit. Then he won a record league title in Greece, excelling in the CL, beating Arsenal amongst others. Up and up and then Hull, I described above, he'd have kept them up, had he replicated his form over his entire tenure of 18 games in 38, simply doubling his points total (42 points from 36 games) would have been enough. Then he was doing great at Hull until we came calling. His first blip and run of defeats in his entire career. So how is he here or there?

Allardyce has lost a record 199 Premier League games. His Premier League record is embarrassing, and yet we pay Mr 34% a staggering £6m a year, and for what? To have the 19th best attack statistics in the league and consistently dull games scraping a draw against Championship level sides, and then him telling us to be grateful.

I'd rather have a winner in charge, not a serial loser, someone who has never won more Premier league games than he's lost at ANY of the previous SIX clubs he's managed.

Nicholas Ryan
148 Posted 02/05/2018 at 03:31:02
In my humble view, the turning-point this season, was nothing to do with any manager; it was the re-emergence of Coleman and Baines, since which, the side has looked both more solid and more adventurous.

Occasionally in life, you come across someone, who is especially talented, and in the first 30 seconds, you can just tell, that they have 'got it'. You may not be able to put your finger on exactly what 'it' is, but instinct tells you, that they're someone special. That's how I see Marco Silva; I don't care too much about his record [which I consider to be good], to me, he 's just 'got it'.

Terry Farrell
149 Posted 02/05/2018 at 05:44:35
Tony E — that is bloody funny but worryingly accurate!
Mark Taylor
150 Posted 02/05/2018 at 10:17:22
Steve,

Allardyce is overpaid, no argument there, but I guess that means we have set our benchmark. On the upside, few people are not interested in their rewards, so that pay package should attract those near the top of the game, even if little else does.

I'll take you at your word that you were convinced we would not go down. I certainly wasn't and nor were plenty on here. I don't know if you had the foresight to predict we could get into the mess we did under Koeman, which was one hell of a mess, but I certainly didn't.

Regarding Silva, I go back to your original post when you said 'Is Silva a gamble? Most definitely. There's plenty of questions to answer.' You only gamble if you have a big upside or you have close to certainty for a smaller upside. We certainly have no certainty, as you say yourself. And limited upside, you are basically talking about advancing one position to 7th. Why take a big risk if that is all we're chasing. Allardyce, for all his shortcomings, will probably achieve something similar in outcome, albeit with uglier football, and although nothing is ever 100 certain, I think he offers much less chance of a meltdown.

What I am saying is that if in fact we are a better resourced club now, with proper budgets to offer incoming managers, or certainly better than anyone else bar the CL clubs, then we should aim higher than Silva whose success has come either in leagues even less prestigious than the Ligue and/or at very small clubs like Estoril. I think you would accept Jardim is a higher level so if we can get a strong proposition on the table, let's not settle for less than that level.

I may end up being disappointed and in reality, the money is all gone, but if for once in our bloody lives we have a chance to be properly ambitious, let's not blow it on someone not quite at the right level to take us forward.

Steve Ferns
151 Posted 02/05/2018 at 12:24:38
Why take the risk on Silva, because if the gamble pays off, then we are not talking getting 7th like Allardyce, we're talking about shooting for the stars. He could well be a jackpot type manager, perhaps better even than Pochettino.

I want Everton to be number 1, not 7th or 8th. Anyone joining the club should be here with the goal of taking us to the top. That's players, managers, coaches, and the board. Anyone aiming for less than top shouldn't be here.

I recall going to watch the fighting talk show at the Echo Arena. Robbie Savage was there playing a big part and out came big Nev for a short segment. Robbie Savage was aghast that Big Nev said that every pre-season he thought he'd win the league. Even at the end when Everton were crap. Big Nev said something like listen Rob, if I didn't think Everton could win the league, I wouldn't have bothered putting my boots on.

We need winners at the club. Ok we can't sign Messi. But we find players who could be Messi in a few years, we find coaches who can unlock potential, we find a manager who will play them. Maybe we can't win the league next season, but everything we do next season should be towards progressing towards winning the league.

Sam Allardyce doesn't want to win the league, not seriously anyway, he never has and he's never come close, and he's happy with a point at Swansea away.

Marco Silva has won the league. He knows what it takes, and he could do it. Gamble, yes for sure, is he likely to win the league, probably not, but it's possible. His coaching ability, his tactics, and his winning mentality could make it happen.

That's what I want to see here, people coming in to win. Win every game, no tactical points away against relegation strugglers. Try and beat everyone. Sign the best players. Improve what we have and drag the team up the league.

if we find a better coach than Silva, great, I'd be overjoyed, because Silva is one hell of a coach, a great tactician, and an obsessive workaholic who will do everything possible to get us and himself to the top.

Tony Everan
152 Posted 02/05/2018 at 14:44:25
In short ; don't settle for Silver or Bronze, with Silva we can aim for gold.
Paul Kossoff
153 Posted 02/05/2018 at 14:53:13
Luis Enrique wants £25 million a year! For what? Finishing fifth at Arsenal!
It's time these money worshipping clunks were brought back to reality! Coach the elder players to manage, and keep the continuity at the club and the cost down.
Len Hawkins
154 Posted 02/05/2018 at 14:57:57
Tony #152

Aim for Gold ? Why go for a porn merchant he might bring Moyes with him.

Steve #151

Spot on WINNERS win things LOSERS don't. Why any manager would look at the fixtures and pick the "winnable games and the likely losses" you have a LOSER. Any team should go all out to win EVERY game. Make Big Nev manager!

Michael Lynch
155 Posted 02/05/2018 at 15:24:12
Steve, to say Silva is a winner is stretching it a bit. He's won trophies in second rate leagues - on that basis let's give the job to John Coleman, he's worked wonders at Accrington Stanley, getting them up to League 1 this season.

Silva has been relegated with one PL club and sacked by another for not winning in ten games. On his last visit to Goodison, his team capitulated losing a 2 goal lead against a desperately shit and demoralised Everton.

If we're going to replace Allardyce, let's at least replace him with someone who has a reasonable chance of actually doing better, rather than someone whose record suggests we'll be in a relegation battle again by December. Anyway, rumour has it he's going to Leeds, which is about the right level for him. He might even "win the league" again with them.

Tony Everan
156 Posted 02/05/2018 at 17:45:18
Michael

He may not be the answer but his record was decent in Portugal, he had to start of somewhere in his career and did extremely well at both clubs and for Olympiacos.

Yes he got relegated with Hull, but he did well considering he joined a club that was a basket case and still is. He was there only a matter of a few months and it is fair to say the team wasn't built by him. Even then, if his points tally in the few months he was there wa projected over the whole season they would have stayed up . No mean feat with Hull City.

With Watford he had his head turned and wanted to join us. The whole episode caused the Watford players to slightly lose faith in him, his heart was elsewhere. In the ultra competitive environment of the Premiership it is no surprise that their form dipped.

Silva is a gamble, but he is a talented young manager, with passion and energy. And, he actually wants or at least wanted to come to Everton FC.

All the other candidates will be gambles too, Silva though is achievable and has tremendous upside potential.

Whoever ends up coming it will not all be down to that one man anyway. We all know he will need top 6 level financial support and the best backroom and off field set up possible .

Steve Ferns
157 Posted 02/05/2018 at 18:27:35
Michael, he's won trophies in Portugal and Greece. He's managed in Europe. He's managed in the Champions League. He's beaten Arsenal in the Champions League. He's won more games in Europe than Big Sam and he's only 40. He's won more trophies than Big Sam and he's only 40.

There's a list of players at Hull saying they only worked with him for 6 months, but he made them a better player. There's a load of players at Watford saying the same thing. The reason Watford went so tits up is that the players were constantly knocking on his door asking if he was going to take them with him to Everton. And Watford sacked him in a position that would have been their highest league finish for 30 years and their third highest ever!! They did so repeatedly stating how unsettled club and the manager were. Not because they had to sack him to stay up.

The guy won games at every club he's been at. His win percentage is 52.6%. Allardyce's is 34%. One is a loser. One is a winner. Silva consistently won games, he never had a bad pitch until Watford.

You dismiss his achievements in Portugal as if they were nothing. He took the Portuguese Accrington Stanley into Europe. He won the 2nd Division with them (beating Fonseca), he got 5th in the first season and EL football, then he went better and got 4th and got Fonseca sacked along the way. He could have had any job in Portugal he wanted too, but he stayed with Estoril because of his affinity for them having played for them and having been the Director of Football. When he did leave he went to Sporting and did something Leo Jardim couldn't, he won a trophy. Leo Jardim is a great manager, he beat the much lauded Unai Emery to the Ligue 1 trophy last season with players coveted all over Europe. Ask Chelsea fans about bakayoko now, or PSG fans about Mbappe, they've struggled away from Jardim.

Pep Guardiola's Man City, the world's most expensive team, led Man Utd by 2-0 and collapsed (his own words). Is it not football that you can be 2-0 up and eff it up (as the chant goes), surely that doesn't mean you are a crap manager, otherwise sack Guardiola now.

As for being in a relegation battle by December? When has Silva ever been in a relegation battle? Never at Estoril (champions, 5th and 4th), or Sporting (3rd) or Olympiacos (1st). So do you mean Hull? his record over 18 games, doubled to 36 games would be 42 points, is that relegation form? Were Watford in a relegation battle when he was sacked in 10th, their highest position for 30 years? To say he'd be in a relegation battle by December has no discernible basis.

Look at who he beat with that Hull side (bottom of the league by the way):
Man Utd, Liverpool, Swansea (twice), Boro, west Ham, Bournemouth, and Watford. It was an unbelievable effort. Yet you dismiss him in favour of Mr 34% who's set to have his first winning season in 11 years.

Name a manager who has an unblemished record. Everton cannot appoint a manager who is not a gamble. Sam Allardyce is a big gamble. He's untried at the highest level. But unlike Silva he's old (our oldest ever manager by 9 years on appointment), he's tired (he came out of retirement remember), so does he really have the energy to transform this team and test himself at the highest level? His tactics, his formations, his setups, his selections are all very safe, very cautious and show that he does not have that energy. He also relies heavily on Shakespeare to coach the side to the standard we need, meaning something can get lost in translation.

We need a super young coach. Silva, Nagelsmann and Jardim fit the bill. The latter is out of our range. Nagelsmann has never won anything and seems likely to stay at Hoffenheim. Silva is the easily attainable guy.

Fonseca is an astute tactician, he's not noted to be an outstanding coach (as in his work on the training pitch). I'd happily have him though. I'd welcome any hungry young manager who is prepared to work hard on the training pitch, to study hours of tape of our players, opponents and prospective players, to compile dossiers, and do all the extra special stuff that the best coaches do, and the likes of Allardyce and Koeman could not be bothered to do.

Nominate a better young coach than Silva, Nagelsmann, or Fonseca, who can be a realistic target, and I'll champion him along with you.

Martin Nicholls
158 Posted 02/05/2018 at 18:30:56
Would any of those in favour of Allardyce seeing out the remaining 12 months of his contract care to give their thoughts on the following hypothetical situation? Supposing Allardyce had accepted the 6 month contract originally on offer and the team then performed exactly as it has done, would you be in favour of extending the hypothetical 6 month contract and keeping him on? If so, why and how would you see him taking us forward?
Steve Ferns
159 Posted 02/05/2018 at 18:40:48
I see Silva is now strongly linked with the Leicester job.

My nightmare would be we pass on Silva and let him take Leicester, then we cross our fingers and hope for Giroud . I mean Fonseca, and then he picks Arsenal, and then we're scratching our heads and offer Allardyce a new 2 year deal.

We can't afford to dither. We need to get it sorted early. One way or another. If it is to be Allrdyce, then we should grow some bollocks and give him the contract extension. The speculation is undermining the club.

Dave Abrahams
160 Posted 02/05/2018 at 18:41:33
Fonseca might be waiting for the Arsenal job, but the reason the Liverpool assistant manager ( don't know his name) left his position was because Arsenal wanted to speak to him about taking over at Arsenal.

Klipperty refused to allow him to go, so that's why he has left, for the moment anyway, to go and see what Arsenal have got to offer.

Steve Ferns
161 Posted 02/05/2018 at 18:48:55
Why would Arsenal (traditionally the biggest club in London) appoint a first time manager who's experience is as Klopp's assistant? If I read that story and it said Crystal Palace instead of Arsenal, I could understand it, but Klopp's assistant, at Arsenal? Really?

Their options appear to be:
- Ancelotti
- Sarri of Napoli
- Allegeri of Juventus
- Jadim of Monaco
- Fonseca of Shaktar
- or Luis Enrique, formerly of Barcelona

How on earth would Klopp's mate beat all of them?

Dave Abrahams
162 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:01:26
I haven't got aclue Steve, but I was told on Monday night that is the reason he left Liverpool, for now, the same story was on the BBC text yesterday morning, so maybe there is some truth in the story.

To be honest I'd never heard of Wenger when he was appointed manager of Arsenal,and how does Fonseca compare to some of the names you have come up with?

I'll have you a penny bet Liverpool's assistant gets interviewed by Arsenal, it's a funny time to walk out on Liverpool, and he is known as the brains behind Klopp.

Dave Abrahams
163 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:11:42
Sorry Steve, my mistake, that story wasn't on the BBC text yesterday morning, it was on today's text.

Liverpool's number two Zeljko Buvac is a serious candidate to replace Arsene Wenger at Arsenal.

( Pravada BL, via Mirror )

Ray Robinson
164 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:13:26
Irrespective of how good Silva is or isn't, Steve, how professional is it to be "distracted" in the manner he apparently was while being paid handsomely by Watford? I know it's only human nature but if he is that good, then how "distracted" would he be if he were to be employed by us and a "bigger" club then came sniffing?

Maybe "distraction" was just an excuse for Watford's loss of form - which was catastrophic. The Times had an article on him a while back in which it was implied that he was a bit of stirrer, to be honest, when he didn't get his way over transfers.

File under "risky" as far as I'm concerned.

How do you know so much about all these foreign managers anyway?

Tony Abrahams
165 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:15:23
Seems a bit mad if it's true, but only six months ago, Moshiri, was allegedly prepared to pay between £10-12 Million for Silva, so if he can get him for nothing now, then I wonder what has changed?

I hope Klopp, blows his brains out tonight Dave, especially with so many already booked to go to Kiev for the final.

Tony Everan
166 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:16:19
Steve

The Silva to Leicester rumours highlights the importance of Mr Moshiri being decisive.

If it is true and he has approached Fonseca and been rejected because the Fons prefers Arsenal he should walk away.

It doesn't work when you are trying to persuade someone who just doesn't really want to come. They will spend half the time regretting it and fail . Not unlike Koeman who had no affinity to EFC at all.

Any of the other top managers will be after CL football and /or huge transfer and wage bill guarantees. I can't see Mr Moshiri footing the bill to the extent.

Leicester's owner is moving fast with good reason. He is trying to get a head start and get Silva signed up whilst we are half asleep .

Moshiri needs a ‘Cobra' meeting this week with his inner circle and to take decisive action on the manager front.

William Cartwright
167 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:16:28
Steve @17: I did some (relatively shallow) reading up on Silva and found him to be a hugely promising young coach / manager and was blown away by his performances at Hull and Watford. Also his demeanor in giving interviews was constantly positive. Not too over the top, and very balanced with respect for the opposition too. No way would he give himself 11 out of 10 and tell reportess on camera to 'piss off'.

I can't believe how we managed to let him slip by and ended up with Allardyce. Now if as you say he moves to Leicester I will be 'pissed off' big time!

Michael Lynch
168 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:29:55
Steve @157

You love your statistics, so here's one.

Allardyce, as you keep reminding us, is Mr 34% in the Premier League. Silva has a win record of 31% in the Premier League.

Michael Lynch
169 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:32:41
I think Klopp's relationship with Buvac is closer to that of Clough and Taylor rather than, say, Big Sam and Little Sam. Of course, that doesn't mean Buvac will succeed on his own, but it was a team with Klopp according to reports.
Andy Meighan
170 Posted 02/05/2018 at 19:54:10
Steve (#157), How do you know that Watford players were knocking on his door to ask him to take them to Everton with him? How are you privy to that information?? Come on, we'd all like to know???
Ray Roche
171 Posted 02/05/2018 at 22:03:18
Steve#161.
"Why would Arsenal (traditionally the biggest club in London) appoint a first time manager who's experience is as Klopp's assistant? "
I don't recall Wenger being a household name when he went to Arsenal...having been sacked at Monaco and then Managing at Grampus Eight. I don't think people were thinking he'd uproot any trees at that time.
Matthew Williams
172 Posted 04/05/2018 at 13:42:08
Looking like my initial shout in heading to the Mackem's... best of luck Chris, looks like yer gonna need it up there.

As for our next Gaffer it seems to me were in a similar position before Moyes joined but with more funds, no top name Gaffer will come as we can't offer the Holy Grail of the Champions League & certain top level coaches more than likely have never even heard of us! (Sad but true.)

Being the lone voice in the wilderness & also being realistic as to the choices available, I'd still go for a Championship Manager from the UK.

So, for me, it's Alex Neil of Preston... ta.

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