Had everything gone according to plan at the end of the January transfer window, then Dwight McNeil would probably have been lining up against Everton when they head to Selhurst Park on Sunday.

McNeil’s move to Crystal Palace was all set to go through on deadline day. The winger had travelled down to London, gone ahead with a medical, and all that remained to be completed were the formalities of a transfer reportedly worth up to £20M.

It would have represented fantastic business for Everton, and given McNeil the chance at a much-needed fresh start. But it was not to be. Palace pulled the plug at the last minute, and McNeil had to make his way back to Merseyside, with his girlfriend going public about the resulting anguish and upset, accusing Palace of toying with the player’s emotions.

The path back to Redemption

David Moyes left McNeil out of his next couple of matchday squads, though Everton were happy to make a big enough deal of the former Burnley man staying put. However, by the end of February, to some furore, McNeil was back in the starting XI for Everton’s trip to St James’ Park.

And in all fairness, he delivered. Playing out on the right, McNeil worked hard (albeit, that is surely a prerequisite for any Premier League footballer), was disciplined off the ball, and played a part in Everton’s second goal, with a fantastic first touch followed by a decent shot, which was parried out by Nick Pope for Beto to slam home.

McNeil did enough to deserve a second chance, and he followed that up with a fine display at home against Burnley, with the 26-year-old receiving a standing ovation when he was taken off in the second half.

But even with McNeil fitting well into the system Moyes had set up, there is a fair argument to say he has been on the receiving end, positively, of some double standards from the manager.

Double Standards?

Yes, he strung together some decent displays before the recent 3-week break, but since Everton’s campaign resumed, he has failed to hit those standards. McNeil was poor against Brentford, worse in the Merseyside derby, and again in the loss at West Ham.

In all of those matches, there’s a fair case to be made that Moyes left McNeil on too long, and that he wouldn’t have shown the same loyalty to the likes of Tyrique George or Tyler Dibling. However, Moyes did at least show a willingness to change against Manchester City, with Merlin Röhl coming in instead of McNeil.

Sure, it’s disheartening in a way to see another player, one who is not a natural winger, getting in ahead of Dibling, and to a lesser extent, George, who has been playing effectively from the bench.

Röhl Revels in Rare Renaissance

But Röhl pointed out in his post-match media duties, as reported by The Athletic’s Paddy Boyland on The Everton Byline Podcast, that Moyes wanted him to track O’Reilly, and drop into midfield when needed to prevent Everton from being outnumbered.

Röhl, though, also mentioned how Everton’s boss was keen for him to use his turn of pace to stretch Man City. That turn of pace was in action in the first half, as Röhl powered in behind to set up a great chance. And it was on show again when he drove onto Jake O’Brien’s throw and dragged a shot/pass to Thierno Barry, who finished to make it 3-1.

Röhl did brilliantly throughout. Yes, he was not perfect, but he demonstrated more dynamism than McNeil and, frankly, was more of a threat, while also showing plenty of endeavour defensively.

Sunday’s clash with Palace, at one point not so long ago, looked like it would be a real chance for McNeil to clip the Eagles’ wings and show them what they had missed. While that could still happen for McNeil from the bench, Moyes should not be drawn into giving him another chance as a starter.

Ultimately, McNeil’s time at Everton is coming to an end, and Röhl— even playing out of position — has proved that it pays to give others, who do have a future at the club, an opportunity. Perhaps that freshness may just be what this team needs.


Reader Comments (88)

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Paul Hewitt
1 Posted 07/05/2026 at 12:09:55
Is something wrong with TW?

I'm getting all the reports from the West Ham game from last week when I log in.
Edward Rogers
2 Posted 07/05/2026 at 12:27:37
Same thing on my phone, Paul H ??
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
3 Posted 07/05/2026 at 13:59:37
Sorry to those relying on the Homepage to access the latest stories. We're trying to fix a glitch that shows up stories which are a week old.

Please click on News at the top of the page to see all the latest News stories.

Christy Ring
4 Posted 07/05/2026 at 14:09:30
Moyes certainly shows favouritism to certain players, or is simply too conservative and stubborn in some of his selections. McNeill and Tarkowski have been very poor of late, but still get picked.

Why he doesn't move O'Brien to centre-back is baffling, with Tarkowski 's making big errors. What beggars belief is that Rohl had his best performance in our win at Villa, and Monday night was his first start since then.

Armstrong who was probably MotM in that game, was then moved to left wing, then dropped and little game time since?

Tony Abrahams
5 Posted 07/05/2026 at 14:24:48
David apparently takes the young players out and learns them the ropes first Christy. It sounds great that until you look at what these players actually achieve once they have learned the ropes.

Lescott went onto better things; Arteta went to a better team; and Rooney was always destined to play at the highest level in the game.

But other than these players, I'm struggling to think what these players have won, or how many of them have gone on to better things after being schooled by David Moyes in their early days? Maybe Ross Barkley?

Martin Berry
6 Posted 07/05/2026 at 15:09:56
As I originally posted when Merlin signed for Everton
I thought he was a great prospect with patience
I see him as Michael Ballack type player, and driving from midfield, he could well develop into an exceptional player with his size and pace.
John Williams
7 Posted 07/05/2026 at 16:28:13
In some cases, playing young players too soon and too often, can result in drop-offs a couple of years down the line.

What has happened to Foden at Man City, Dele Alli fell off a cliff, just to name two.

John Collins
8 Posted 07/05/2026 at 16:32:05
It's an individual thing John.
They're not made on conveyor belts.
Some have it, some don't.
Christy Ring
9 Posted 07/05/2026 at 17:17:15
I still think Rohl is central midfielder.

He put himself about all over the field against Man City, played really well, but he's not a left winger.

James Flynn
10 Posted 07/05/2026 at 17:44:18
There's a £25 million due bill this summer, on Rohl. Looking at his injury record last season and the first half of this one, "injury-prone" comes to mind. And not a recurring injury; different injuries.

I believe that what Moyes has done is spend this 2nd half of this season getting Rohl back up to 100% fitness, in anticipation of Rohl's role next season.

And that upcoming £25 million due bill, which I hope he's worth. Freiberg certainly bit our hand off when we offered a deal.
Dave Abrahams
11 Posted 07/05/2026 at 17:50:30
John (7) I think Foden came into the City team at a very early age and had played non stop for them and plenty of times for England, last season he started going off and has struggled this season, I think he been over played without rest and that might be the main reason he has not performed at the high level he did for City assisting in many of their goals and scoring plenty as well.

He is on the point of securing a new long contract with City and I’d be amazed that a lad with that stand out talent won’t provide a lot more with City in the next few seasons.

Mind you if City get what they deserve it should be in the lower levels but I’d be more amazed if that happens.
Micky Norman
12 Posted 07/05/2026 at 18:01:07
When Grealish comes back as he surely will we should aim to have 3 or 4 midfield players on the bench who can rotate and not weaken the team but can slot in to change tactics as necessary from the start or during a game. All of the better teams in Europe can do this. Modern football is a big squad game. We’ve suffered from a small squad and lack of options from the bench this season so that most of our substitutions are just like for like as a starter tires. On Monday night, Grealish as a sub could have helped us to close out that game. Rohl can be a big part of that type of squad.
John Collins
13 Posted 07/05/2026 at 19:14:49
Who thinks Rohl will start at the weekend.
Ian Jones
14 Posted 07/05/2026 at 22:12:25
Tony, perhaps Fellaini might warrant inclusion as another player brought in by David Moyes.
Ian Bennett
15 Posted 07/05/2026 at 22:19:46
Id be interested if the ToffeeWeb editorial team get the detailed stats on Rohl vs City.

He was involved in some key moments- first half break, Silva penalty, deflected shot/cross for Barry, some real pace. I was impressed.

But was his performance exaggerated? The stats below point to peripheral fugure as much as Mcneil.

I am surprised, as I left the stadium feeling as upbeat as everyone else about him. But are we risking overhyping the lad?

I read the following,

Hinchcliffe said, while commentating on Sky Sports: “Rohl hasn’t tracked his run. [James] Garner does well just to slide in and get a foot in. You can have bodies back, but if you watch the ball and get caught ball-watching against this City team, their movement off the ball will catch you out.

“He hasn’t tracked his man once again; he has to be aware, it’s happened a number of times.”

These were his stats, which arent great.

Crosses 0
Shots on target 0
Passes just 6 out of 9
Just 14 touches
Dribbles 0
Possession lost 5
Tackes/won - 1/0
Dribbled past 2
Ground duels/won 1 from 6
Aerial duels/won 1 from 3

Link
Tony Abrahams
16 Posted 07/05/2026 at 22:21:03
Yes Ian, but only because he was signed by the great man himself!

We have been overhyping players for years Ian, it’s what happens once the narrative is changed and mediocrity sets in mate
Neil Cremin
17 Posted 07/05/2026 at 23:09:41
John Williams
18 Posted 07/05/2026 at 23:10:03
Rohl was caught out in the first half, I am sure he was there to counter
O Reilly, who was causing problems and getting into our penalty area.
The management clearly worked on that at half time. O Reilly spent more time having to defend and he did nt have the pace of Rohl when he attacked their defence. Rohl certainly had a better second half and that is what you remember.
I think we should also give credit to Tim, who worked hard in midfield.
Jay Lewis
19 Posted 07/05/2026 at 23:18:35
Ian @15 Ignore what Hinchcliffe said, he's a twat, showed his true colours with his "non bias" commentary and opinions, proper Manc prick.
I would rather see Rohl start than McNeil or Gana Gueye.
One of biggest problems, where it comes to conceding in the last 5 to 10 minutes of a match is because we don't have a bedded in player with enough game time under their belt to come on.
For example, beyond Moyes' favourite 11, the rest of the squad have hardly played all season, therefore not got much game time/match fitness/created partnerships with other players etc.
If he played Rohl for the remaining games and Gana Gueye is fit, Gana would be a decent sub to bring on in the closing stages because he'd slot in like a condom on a cock, but the same can't be expected from George, Dibling, Alcatraz etc because they only get the odd 15 to 20 minutes here and there
Brendan McLaughlin
20 Posted 07/05/2026 at 23:54:04
John #13

Andy Hinchcliffe?
Eric Myles
21 Posted 07/05/2026 at 01:07:02
Tony #5, John Stones.
Paul Griffiths
22 Posted 08/05/2026 at 02:41:52
Eric (21), John Stones joined us in January 2013. He was an unused sub on three occasions for the rest of that season and then Moyes headed off to what he thought would be his glorious new kingdom/reign.

Stones made his PL debut for us 335 days after he joined us on New Years Day 2014.

I really don't think that Moyes did anything to improve Stones.
Bob Parrington
23 Posted 08/05/2026 at 03:08:13
A lot of good feedback on here. I agree with those wanting Rohl to start the final 3 games. Subject to us not having a chance to gain euro entry next season, I would also like to see Dibling and George starting at least the last 2 games.
Lee Courtliff
24 Posted 08/05/2026 at 05:01:54
From what I read it's a £20M fee we have to pay for Merlin, there's clearly an injury issue/risk as that fee is nothing major in todays game and this lad was linked to the likes of Liverpool before his injury!

It's a risk worth taking given his young age, whether he's another Reid or Whiteside remains to be seen but it was a joy to watch one of our players sprinting away from the opposition, rather than the other way around.

Next season we have some real options in midfield with KDH/Garner/Armstrong/Rohl/Iroegbunam and possibly Gueye. Maybe the reluctance to use some of them this season was just a settling in period and Moyes will be more trustful of them next year? You can only hope.
Darren Hind
25 Posted 08/05/2026 at 06:41:14
The 49,000 Evertonians who attended the match would probably point to when Rohl left the city defence for dead and put in a cross which the City keeper did brilliantly to deflect away from Beto, as our best attack of the first half...So would the millions watching on the telly.
However ! some trying to defend Moyes's decision to leave Merlin out in the cold for months will put up a set of fuck-witted stats (which don't even add up) to "prove" he didnt put any crosses in all night. And if further proof was needed that Merlin had a nightmare, we are treated to the "thoughts" of Andy-fucking-Hinchcliffe

What a convincing argument No need for the jury to retire.

"Sofascore" ? Hahahahah
Eric Myles
26 Posted 08/05/2026 at 07:19:39
I know that Paul #22, it means that Stones had 6 months under Moyes tutelage, more than enough time for him to have learned something to improve himself.

He also had the benefit of being on the subs bench to sit back and take it all in, like Merlin.
Ian Bennett
27 Posted 08/05/2026 at 07:47:10
No Darren. Again, I didnt mention Moyes name once or the decision to substitute him.

HE JUST LIVES IN YOUR HEAD RENT FREE. AND NOT EVERY DISCUSSION ON THIS PAGE IS ABOUT MOYES. Capiche?

The article was about the comparison of Rohl to Mcneil. And my comment, is this, before you pile on.

Both are statistically on the periphery of the game. So was Rohl's contribution over egged. 14 touches and 6 passes is on reading, is low.

So before we set up Rohl to fail, was his performance really that strong outside of a couple of moments? Simple question, for a football forum, no agenda, no Moyes, and no cat o nine tails.

And feel free to laugh at Sofascore. It is Opta data, and matches the Premier League website. It is a good source of statistical information, and unlike yourself, provides facts, not bias. But you knew that already.
Tony Abrahams
28 Posted 08/05/2026 at 07:47:39
Thanks Eric, I don’t know how I forget about Stones, after all those great performances he put in for Everton, under David Moyes.
Eric Myles
29 Posted 08/05/2026 at 07:52:46
Tony #28, read Paul #22, and me #26.
Darren Hind
30 Posted 08/05/2026 at 07:55:07
Really amusing to see people like Eric moaning on one thread that Moyes being blamed for everything. Whilst repeatedly giving him credit for something he didnt do.

We know Moyes had nothing to do with signing of John Stones and we know he had to have his arm twisted up his back to do so.

Now we are told that Moyes helped develop Stones by leaving him out in the cold.

It would appear that every time a playuer proves Moyes wrong (like Rohl). We will be told that they have benefited from the Moyes method of nurturing talent.
Clubs all around Europe will be sitting up and taking very close interest in Davey's innovative new freeze out process

Apologetic drivel
Tony Abrahams
31 Posted 08/05/2026 at 07:56:14
I learned something about Everton, reading a few of Darren’s posts, Ian, because he has always gone on about how people only have to do a few good things in an Everton jersey, before they get overhyped, so I don’t think Darren, will be getting too excited about Merlin Rohl, just yet.

You write something very significant though Ian, because in a ninety minute game it always staggers me how much time a player actually spends on the ball. It’s what you do off the ball, that is the most important thing, imo, and this is why I think Rohl, impressed everyone the other night.

He’s green, he wants to run, he has hardly played any football in months and he was played out of position against a team that manipulate the football. He got done a few times but he never let it get to him, he just carried on working very hard for his team, and this is something that usually impresses people a lot.
Darren Hind
32 Posted 08/05/2026 at 08:10:08
Yeah coz nobody really believes you attacked Rohls performance to defend your idol.

Crosses - 0. hahaha
touches - 14
passes - 9
possession lost - 5
Tackles won 1.

Not only do these stato's provide duff information (as proved here) the innumerate fucker who compiled them cant even make their figures add up.

So everyone who gave Rohl credit for a really good performance should bow to the opinion which was given to you by somebody else ?

Facts ???? Yet more Windbaggary
Paul Griffiths
33 Posted 08/05/2026 at 08:16:40
Nah Eric M. Not buying that for a single second. I think that's called clutching at straws. Nor do I think that you did know that mate.

You think that Moyes was spending serious time tutoring Stones, when the only thing on his mind was I'm going to Man U. Nah. If Stones had improved so much under Moyes's 'tutelage' why did he have to wait until Jan 2014 for his PL debut?

Tony is spot on. Moyes did fuck all for Stones in what four - FOUR - months.

Come on Eric. Pick your battles mate.

Moyes had nothing - NOTHING - to do with signing Stones. Word is, he was opposed.
Ian Bennett
34 Posted 08/05/2026 at 08:26:53
Theyre Opta numbers Darren. So yeah, they are statistical facts.

Opta is part of a £500m turnover business selling statistical information to clubs, broadcasters and gambling firms.

They don't need to make up numbers, nor fail to add them up properly. It is a trusted partner to the Premier League and many other sports, and id happily say Opta have a better grasp of collecting data, than an arm chair fan, like yourself.

I wont get into name calling, but that appears that is all you have these days. Poor.
Darren Hind
35 Posted 08/05/2026 at 08:30:34
"Statistical facts".

I'm done here.
Paul Griffiths
36 Posted 08/05/2026 at 08:39:31
Ian, 34, one thing Darren is not is 'an arm chair fan'. You did get into 'name calling'. You ought. to apologise to DH for that fecking insult/lie.

While I might not wholly agree with DH on this score. You naivety about compiling, presenting, and marketing stats and your '£500m turnover business' erm 'evidence', Opta or whoever, reminds me of that old fella in the flat cap, just put his bet on, who believed everything he read in The Daily Mirror.

Show me a compelling narrative of how those stats are created and perhaps a questioner like me might be converted.
Tommy Carter
37 Posted 08/05/2026 at 08:57:41
@ Darren

I’d go as far to say that had Moyes remained at the club, Stones would not have become a first team regular at Everton until he was in his mid 20s. There’d have been a number of loan moves prior.
Ian Bennett
38 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:03:09
Knew it wouldn't take long for you to show up. Did Darren text you for some support, or is he using your log in?

I don't need to get into how opta produce their numbers.

A £500m revenue tells me that theyre getting it right, as does the type of organisations that use it. They have far more credibility than Paul & Darren, fact.

I am sure that full due diligence has been done by these companies, and that the thing isn't hung together by a copy of the Daily Mirror or whatever else you are coming out with.

In fact that is certain, as football clubs are pouring over this with their team of analysts every fucking week, that cost millions and millions a year.

Of course you are done here Darren. Anyone wanting to add the numbers up, tells me enough. One up from eating them.
John Collins
39 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:06:06
Ian.

Statistical facts?
Did you watch the game?
Paul Griffiths
40 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:16:37
Pathetic response Ian - 38.

Apart from your personal crap - I don't know DH but I call out crap when I see it - this tells me all I need to know about the credibility of your erm 'argument' - 'I don't need to get into how opta produce their numbers'.

Fuck me, you need to talk to a 'professional' statistician lad. Your ignorance is my bliss.

AND, 'one thing Darren is not is 'an arm chair fan'. You did get into 'name calling'. You ought. to apologise to DH for that fecking insult/lie'.

Have the decency or dignity to reply lad.
Paul Griffiths
41 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:20:21
Oh, Ian Statty, as you fight your Moyes battles, do have a look at how many on here who watched the match chose Rohl as MOM.

And, why the fuck would an erm 'Evertonian' try or even think about deprecating a player we should all be behind?

Idiocy of the highest degree.
Ian Bennett
42 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:20:27
Yes John.

I am surprised, as I left the stadium feeling as upbeat as everyone else about him. But are we risking overhyping the lad?

I am sorry that is what opta reported. They are the stats whether you like them or not. Ive just asked if we are overhyping the lad, and everyone has started to cry over it, even though some know that is exactly what Evertonians do, such is the starve of genuine class.
Ian Bennett
43 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:21:50
Thanks 41 - youve proved my point.
John Collins
44 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:23:10
I'm more surprised that the £500 million machine didn't see Rohl's cross Ian.
Laurie Hartley
45 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:36:24
Apart from glaring mistakes, I just go by what my eyes tell me and my gut feeling when I assess a players performance. I think both Rhol and Iroegbunam had good games.

Iroegbunam loves a tackle and works really hard which appeals to me while Rhol has real pace, which is something we have a glaring lack of.

I would play them both in the remaining three games and look forward to seeing them become regular starters next season.
Eric Myles
46 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:43:12
Paul #33 "If Stones had improved so much under Moyes's 'tutelage' why did he have to wait until Jan 2014 for his PL debut?"

So what you're saying is Martinez didn't see anything in him to play him in the 6 months since he took over from Moyes? Or it was Martinez that improved Stones in those 6 months?

Or maybe you don't think it's possible to learn anything in 6 months?
Paul Griffiths
47 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:53:27
I've explained Eric, it was 4 months not 6 and the answer is emphatically NO. Moyes was, let me remind you, mentally checked out. So, erm, a priority of mine SAF is to improve the guy I didn't want to buy. NO Eric. Just drop it. You can't even get the number of months right.

Martinez had more time to recognise and encourage and work with Stones FFS.But Stones was in all likelihood good enough anyway.

You're being uncharacteristically poor here Eric.

I'm done with this.
Ian Bennett
48 Posted 08/05/2026 at 09:56:39
It was "crosses (accurate)", was the line on the website, John. I just didnt type it all out.

The first half cross was intercepted by Donnaruma.

The 'assist' for Barry, I think was put down as a deflected shot off the defender. As he didnt register an assist for it. However, good the play was.
John Collins
49 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:00:20
I take no notice to stats being honest Ian, I use my eyes.
What was your interpretation of Rohl's cross?
Innacurate?
Paul Griffiths
50 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:04:05
Ian B, you are fecking juvenile bizarre lad. What is the point of discussing something with a rock.You have no idea about how to construct an argument or respond to one.

Your 43 is primary school playground lad. I worry about spending time with someone - you - who is so obviously below the intelligence of the people I am lucky enough to interact with in my life.

Apologise to DH lad or explain why you won't. If not, you really have no decency or class.
Paul Griffiths
51 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:06:22
Why the fuck would someone go to such great lengths to undermine one of ours who nearly everyone else agrees had a quality second half?
Andy Meighan
52 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:08:27
Stats mean absolutely nothing to me.

The main thing is I reckon most of us on here and the 49,000 who were at the game thought that Röhl had a good game, his work rate was second to none and his distribution at times wasn't great, but wasn't bad either.

If you're putting a shift in in front of us, you're going to be nothing but backed, the same goes for Iroegbunam, and if Moyes drops either of them on Sunday for Gana Gueye, I think the majority of us will be fuming.

John Collins
53 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:23:08
Andy.

Agree on Gana mate, been a good player for the club, I like him.

But with the future in mind, I would like to see Iroegbunam play the next 3 games alongside Garner. Won't happen though.

Christy Ring
54 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:27:18
I had no interest in Hinchcliffe's stats the other night, you'd never think he played for Everton, always criticising us when he's doing commentary on our games.

I thought Röhl played well the other night, but to be fair to him, he's definitely not a right winger, and it's typical Moyes, playing players out of position.

Armstrong played well in the middle, and then Moyes moved him to the left wing, and then dropped him completely.

Mark Steers
55 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:55:30
There are two things about Tim Iroegbunam that a blind man can see:

1st: he fades like a pair of old jeans.
2nd: every tackle is on the edge of a yellow or red card, so I don't think you could trust him.
3rd: if Everton are going to move forward, now is the time to wave goodbye to Gana, Coleman, McNeil, Tarkowski and Keane. They're all no good.
Ian Bennett
56 Posted 08/05/2026 at 10:58:02
Paul, posters undermine people involved with this club all the time, the players, the owners, the scouts, the medical team, the coaches. Christ even the ball boy has been on the receiving end. So the high horse comment is frankly ridiculous.

Go back to what I actually said before you came up with your Daily Mirror nonsense. I said I liked his performance, but was it a bit over hyped on closer inspection. A simple question, one to ensure we don't double down on him in the future.

6 passes and 15 touches it would appear to be enough for man of the match these days. That is mental for a midfielder. And despite Tony's kind words, is honestly nowhere near enough.

Doku carried the ball 433m vs Rohl 32 metres. His performance was phenomenal, it was man of the match, and if we have any hope of playing attacking, open football, we will need players that can and do deliver on the ball, even more so than the shadow play that was on display all first half.

I don't need to engage on your intellect point Paul. I am very happy with the career I've had, and I don't need to validate them on these pages like you. I don't talk money, politics, class, race, religion or sexual orientation. Never have, never will.

Apologise to Darren? He is in deficit mate. Massively.
John Collins
57 Posted 08/05/2026 at 11:04:30
Ian,

"Doku carried the ball 433m vs Rohl 32 metres"

One of them is the best left winger in The Prem.
One of them is a central midfielder playing out of position, under orders to protect the full back.
Ian Bennett
58 Posted 08/05/2026 at 11:15:36
I know John.
John Collins
59 Posted 08/05/2026 at 11:18:27
You never got back to me on your opinion of the accuracy of Rohl's cross Ian.
Tony Abrahams
60 Posted 08/05/2026 at 11:40:44
That “ crosses accurate statistic” has just made me smile Ian, because it reminds me of VAR, mate.

Carrying on then would Rohl’s break in the first half not count because I’m certain he ran a bigger distance than that when he created a chance for Beto, in the first half?

He still made the chance because he was prepared to run very hard without the ball.
Ian Bennett
61 Posted 08/05/2026 at 12:43:47
First half, he was a bit unlucky it got cut out John. Keeper did well, but he is a good keeper.

Second half it was a shot, and we go lucky it broke, is my honest answer. But if you don't buy a ticket,...

His pace was very promising, as past central midfielders have always lacked it in my opinion for a long, long time. In fact I cant remember many quick centre mids at Everton.

Tony, it looks like those 2 runs, we're all that he registered as meaningful carries. But happy to be put straight if there were others that they didnt record.
Darren Hind
62 Posted 08/05/2026 at 13:18:47
John.

Anyone who was at the game will know that Rohl's burning pace and cross was the only time the crowd were on their feet throughout the whole of the first half.
Anyone merely claiming to be at the match will probably rely on daft arsed stats and Andy Hincliffes in game comments to have an opinion.

The cross wasnt the only thing the stato got wrong. He didnt even understand his own figures.
Tell us That Rohl played 9 passes.
Lost possesion 5 times
And won a tacklle
I wonder how the innumerate statto can tell us about about AT LEAST 15 touches of the ball...Then report (as statisitcal fact) That he only he only had 14 .....The mind boggles

"Sofawatch" only exist's because so many Social media fans don't understand what they are watching and need someone to tell them what their opinion is. They will never question these stats, because they don't understand them
Bill Watson
63 Posted 08/05/2026 at 13:22:24
I haven't been on ToffeeWeb for a while and this thread demonstrates just why.
Most things can be 'proved' or 'disproved' by quoting statistics.

Mark Twain; "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force. There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
John Collins
64 Posted 08/05/2026 at 13:40:29
Last try Ian.
Third go.

In your opinion was the cross innacurate?
Steve Brown
65 Posted 08/05/2026 at 14:03:59
Ian watched the game live at Hll Dickinson.

Like me, he came away from the stadium convinced Rohl had played well. Because he had seen it take place with his own two eyes.

He then read some words of commentary from Andy Hinchliffe that Rohl hadn’t tracked back during the game. I don’t agree with Hinchliffe’s analysis, and nor did Ian until he read it, then he did.

Later, Ian looked up some Opta match stats which also appeared to contradict what he had watched, Now he disagrees with himself and has concluded Rohl’s performance was “a bit over hyped on closer inspection.”

Which begs the question - why does Ian go to the game at all when he has to get his opinion from others on what he watched?
Eric Myles
66 Posted 08/05/2026 at 14:17:58
Andy #52, the problem with those witnessing the game is; firstly, they don't all see the same thing; secondly, they don't always have the same opinion (as a result of firstly); and thirdly, in 20, 30, 40, 50 years time those that witnessed an event will be dead and all that's left is the stats.

Figure into that also fan vagaries like Barry and Beto. Both were crap and not worthy, then Barry scores six goals and he's the best thing since sliced bread and Beto is crapper. Then Barry stops scoring and they're both crap again, until Beto nets six and he's the best thing since sliced bread, toasted and with Marmite on it. Then he doesn't score and is crapper than Barry who starts scoring again. Rinse and repeat. That's where listening to fans gets you, whereas in reality all players can have good and bad periods in a season with the best being most consistent. And it's not just our strikers, Keane, Mykolenko, Gueye, McNeil, all get the same fan treatment, one match superstars the next Championship standard.
Ian Bennett
67 Posted 08/05/2026 at 14:46:11
I wonder how the innumerate statto can tell us about about AT LEAST 15 touches of the ball...Then report (as statisitcal fact) That he only he only had 14 . The mind boggles

They will never question these stats, because they don't understand them

Let me put you straight there bud.

I don't record Opta numbers.

But try this on, and see what you make of it, & see if you can see YOUR MISTAKE.

Of the 9 total passes, his passes were lost 3 times - 6 from 9 were successful.
As 3 out of the 5 lost possession stats, were from passes - he therefore lost the ball 2 times elsewhere.

Not lost you yet?

You can therefore either have 6 successful passes and 5 possession lost.
Or you can have 9 total passes and 2 possession lost outside of passing.
= 11 touches.

I suspect that is how Opta to get to their numbers (not mine), and why they DO add up, as you would expect from a £500m a year revenue business vs some random making a pigs ear of it.
John Collins
68 Posted 08/05/2026 at 14:52:00
"I suspect that is how Opta to get to their numbers (not mine), and why they DO add up, as you would expect from a £500m a year revenue business vs some random making a pigs ear of it."

They missed the cross out of their stats Ian.Said Rohl had no crosses.
£500 million for that?
Patric Ridge
69 Posted 08/05/2026 at 14:58:36
John 68 and Ian 67

Rohl attempted 1 cross, which will go down as unsuccessful due to Donnarumma getting a hand to it.

His assist will have cause gone down as a key pass/chance created.

Stats, and this comes from someone who works day in, day out with them, should always be used in context and taken into perspective of the game you are watching. Across longer time spans, underlying metrics are very useful to spot trends.

Everton had so little of the ball on Monday, it's therefore not surprising that Rohl, playing primarily a role in order to track O'Reilly and clog the midfield, had fewer touches. Also keep in mind Everton mainly attacked left side, through Ndiaye.

Rohl completed 6/9 passes, and if you extrapolate that across a game, then that completion percentage is pretty standard.
Eric Myles
70 Posted 08/05/2026 at 15:00:55
John #64 & #59.

I can see Ian's answer, but I guess you're just being deliberately obtuse as usual.

And now I see Patric has answered it for you as well.
Ian Bennett
71 Posted 08/05/2026 at 15:16:35
John 64 and 68.

I had responded in 61.

Andrew Merrick
72 Posted 08/05/2026 at 15:26:10
Rohl was definitely in Moyes's Role play, so not in his favoured position, and given a tactical role on the right-hand side.

Whilst fulfilling the manager's tactic, he fitted in some pacey stuff. I don't know if his crossing game can develop, but if he did that, we could have an Andre Kanchelskis revival!

Tony Hughes
73 Posted 08/05/2026 at 15:49:37
We've all watched thousands of hours of football and a thousand different players. Do we really need the amount of stats thrown at us now to know whether somebody is a bad, good or a great footballer, or if they played well or not?

Röhl played extremely well the other night, regardless of stats, and probably surprised us with some more strings to his bow than we realised he had.

The bigger issue is why hasn't Moyes seen this potential in the lad and played him on a regular basis... and sooner???

John Collins
74 Posted 08/05/2026 at 16:04:34
Ian,

You didn't, but I will take it you are disagreeing with Opta Stats? Is that correct?
Darren Hind
75 Posted 08/05/2026 at 16:15:35
Oh I seeeeeeee ?

So the 4 touches he had leading up to Barry's second and the two touches he had leading to the "inaccurate" cross (hehe) don't count?

So if we ignore the header he won (it was two, but no mind), we ignore the tackles he made, and we ignore the six touches I've just mentioned in the first sentence, he really did only have 14 touches.

No wonder I didn't get it. All you have to do is ignore his actual contribution to the game and you can arrive at the conclusion that he had a complete Weston.

Genius. I'm with those who want to peddle "statistical facts" Fuck reality... Where do I sign?
John Collins
76 Posted 08/05/2026 at 16:17:34
Get yerself down the ping pong bar, Eric.

Relax man.

Ian Bennett
77 Posted 08/05/2026 at 16:18:13
John, I had said at 48, that it was accurate crosses. The first half cross wasn't completed, and so didn't count.

I am not disagreeing with Opta Stats.

Christy Ring
78 Posted 08/05/2026 at 16:21:09
We can all look at stats to see how each player performed.

However, looking at the game against Man City, when Ndiaye got through each time to face Donnarumma one-on-one, and was denied, wasn't Rohl supporting in the penalty area twice, if he had squared it?
John Collins
79 Posted 08/05/2026 at 16:24:48
Okay, Ian.

So the cross that one of the best keepers in Europe got his fingertips to, stopping a tap-in was inaccurate?

Plums this stats lark imo! Always best to use your eyes to arrive at an opinion on any individual's contribution.

Tony Abrahams
80 Posted 08/05/2026 at 17:47:22
I'd say Everton have mostly attacked down the left in at least 90% of the games I have watched us play this season, Patric.

Two reasons: Dewsbury-Hall likes to play in a left of centre, inside forward type of role and Jake O'Brien doesn't get forward nowhere near as much as most fullbacks do in the modern game.

I might be wrong, but that's what I believe. Sometimes I wish that Moyes would play Alcaraz in a similar position to Dewsbury-Hall on the other side in an inside right position and leave James Garner playing slightly deeper.

I believe it would make us a lot more effective in attack whilst negating the fact that we have two mostly stay-at-home fullbacks. (Maybe the stats would disprove my theory and paint a different picture with regard to Mykolenko, as a stay-at-home defender?)

John Collins
81 Posted 08/05/2026 at 18:10:52
Just reading Glasner has give the Palace lads a day off, told them to go out and enjoy themselves.
Liam Mogan
82 Posted 08/05/2026 at 18:13:33
Jack Grealish's perfect manager
Eric Myles
84 Posted 08/05/2026 at 18:32:10
I don't play table tennis, John #76, especially as I'm not yet recovered from a torn calf muscle from 6 weeks ago.
John Collins
85 Posted 08/05/2026 at 18:44:18
Best of luck with the recovery, Eric.

Google Herr Schreuder's advice... 👍

Annika Herbert
86 Posted 08/05/2026 at 22:56:41
So basically there is no longer any need to watch games? Not live, or on tv? All we need to do is wait for the stats to be provided and that gives us all the information we need?

We can now scrap the player ratings completely as we don't need to rate players we have viewed, just wait for the stats to decide who has played well and who hasn't.

Stats might be useful over a longer period to spot trends etc, but you will never convince me to judge a players performance by stats alone. Utter rubbish!
Si Cooper
87 Posted 08/05/2026 at 00:22:31
On the stats debate: Surely a cross can be both accurate and unsuccessful?

If it's on course to get to your player, it's accurate... but if it's very well intercepted by the keeper it ends up being unsuccessful.

In a very real way, a player can significantly affect the pattern and outcome of a game without touching the ball much at all.

Take a defence maintaining a brilliant offside trap all game, or players making clever runs to open up a defence for the guy who actually gets to try to convert the chance.

Looking at stats that are only about touches on the ball is nuts.

Eric Myles
88 Posted 08/05/2026 at 00:57:42
Thanks, John #85,

It's much improved but not quite there, taking small steps and taking no chances.

Chris Davies
89 Posted 09/05/2026 at 03:05:57
Haaland had 10 touches in his recent game. What a pile of shite these stats are.

McNeil vs Röhl: One's been relegated or tried to be his entire career; the other is just breaking through with quality, dynamism, pace, intelligence.

Moyes has said many times that he's trying to get up to speed with the pace of the Premier League.


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