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De Ligt eyed as Martins links persist

| Monday, 18 June 2018 108comments  |  Jump to last
Everton are said to be targeting highly-rated centre-half Matthijs De Ligt while the name of Sporting winger Gelson Martins continues to be mentioned in connection with the Blues.

Along with another player reported to be on Marcel Brands's shortlist, William Carvalho, Martins has filed to terminate his contract at Sporting following the attack on some of the club's players by a group of fans a few weeks ago.

That would make him a free agent and, according to The Telegraph, he is said to be interesting the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Tottenham as well as Everton.

De Ligt, meanwhile, has emerged as one of the most sought-after young defenders in the Netherlands. The 18-year-old Ajax defender was reportedly being tracked by Manchester City.

The same Telegraph article suggests that the Blues would, indeed, face significant competition for a player who could cost upwards of £50m but that they will try to leverage his agent Mino Raiola as well as Brands's knowledge of his abilities from his time at rival PSV Eindhoven.

Reader Comments (108)

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Derek Knox
1 Posted 18/06/2018 at 22:43:40
It seems a lot of money for an 18 year old, who may, or may not, make the big time consistently. I have only heard of him briefly, but never actually seen him play.

Surely we could get someone for less and not one who has potential. Still feel we have dropped a ball with James Maddison, allegedly joining Leicester soon, having had a medical.

Tony Everan
2 Posted 18/06/2018 at 22:48:26
It concerns me how long we will wait whilst these legal contractual issues are ongoing.

Could the waiting mean we miss out on alternative signings in the interim? What if Carvalho and Martins hold us to ransom at the end of the saga or even accept an offer from Juve or AC Milan or any club that will be alert to a bargain.

We need to get our main signings in for the pre season . If this contractual stuff lingers on any longer look elsewhere or we could get caught with our knickers down like the Olivier Giroud farce.

Andy Williams
3 Posted 18/06/2018 at 22:50:40
Ryan Gauld has been talking about how good a manager Silva was when he worked with him at Sporting in Portugal. Interesting and encouraging interview.
Dean Cooper
4 Posted 19/06/2018 at 00:24:19
Signed him in FIFA so must be some legs to it...

But seriously, can we have a left-footer linked please? Watched Maguire play today on the left-side of a three- or five-man defence and he just couldn't continue the play on his left. Much like Everton 2017-18, minus the defensive blunders and lack of shots on target...

Alan J Thompson
5 Posted 19/06/2018 at 02:06:59
18, central defender? Who are we going to loan him out to?
Victor Yu
6 Posted 19/06/2018 at 02:23:42
Do we really have the money to sign anyone?

Didn't Brands say we have to sell some deadwood first before we can buy new players?

David Barks
7 Posted 19/06/2018 at 03:34:35
No he didn't say that Victor.
Phillip Warrington
8 Posted 19/06/2018 at 05:34:48
It's great fantasizing about these players but there's one obstacle – we have still not yet moved on any of the high earners of the squad who should never wear an Everton shirt. I haven't heard any concrete rumours of players going the other way except for Rooney.
Mike Gaynes
9 Posted 19/06/2018 at 06:37:13
I'd be De Ligted with these two signings.
Niall Hughes
10 Posted 19/06/2018 at 06:39:35
Victor, he said we needed to trim the squad as we have too many players and a high wage bill. Selling players who aren't needed or playing is just a way to be more financially responsible. We still have a decent transfer budget for the right players.
Len Hawkins
11 Posted 19/06/2018 at 09:23:58
His Spanish born cousin Angel De Ligt would be a tasty option he'd Instantly Whip the defence into shape.

Everton will probably end up with Pat Rice's son who is a pudding.

Sam Hoare
12 Posted 19/06/2018 at 09:36:52
De Ligt will cost a fortune, I suspect, for a 18-year-old, huge gamble though he does look the real deal and is already starting for Holland.

Martins for me looks too inconsistent even for a winger and I believe the Sporting fans (Steve Ferns and Jay Woods) have warned against him.

In terms of the Sporting contract rebels Wolves have already signed Rui Patricio so it seems they are fair game for now though there will no doubt be legal wranglings down the line. Apparently Inter Milan are now favourites to sign William Carvalho.

Interesting that we have had no sales yet. The likes of Rooney, Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Williams, Mirallas etc are obviously not affected by the World Cup and yet none seem that close to moving (bar Rooney perhaps). Could it be that Silva does not want to to make any moves before getting the players out on the training pitch and seeing how they adjust to his instruction?

May be that our business comes very late in this window or that we will be looking to January window or next summer to make needed overhaul. It's a long game with this new management team I think (hope).

James Stewart
13 Posted 19/06/2018 at 09:44:42
Yes please! Classy operator and every bit as good as Stones without the mistakes.
Don Alexander
14 Posted 19/06/2018 at 10:02:38
As long as he doesn't have a tendency to switch off.

I'll get me coat.

Ian Burns
15 Posted 19/06/2018 at 10:29:57
And your ruddy hat, Don – and close the door on your way out!!
Derek Knox
16 Posted 19/06/2018 at 11:40:39
Don't worry, folks –there still may be De Ligt at the end of the Tunnel.

Don't blame me, Mike Gaynes started it. :-))

Marc Hints
17 Posted 19/06/2018 at 12:57:01
According to the Liverpool Echo, they have made enquiries and Everton are not interested in either of these players.
Dermot Byrne
18 Posted 19/06/2018 at 13:04:15
Derek and Mike G (#16 and #9)

"Groove is in the heart".

(Try Google)

Steve Ferns
19 Posted 19/06/2018 at 15:42:06
Sam, I'd take Gelson Martins on a free all day long. If we're talking 㿊-40m then no, he's too consistent. He has pace to burn, his acceleration is right up there, I'd say faster than Walcott, but Jay disagrees. It doesn't matter really, we both agree that he is very, very fast. He's got a load of tricks. His shooting is wayward and his passing is poor, particularly his final ball.

De Ligt is someone I've only seen play briefly. But let's just say that his reputation alone makes him the best centre-back under 21 in the world right now. I expect the biggest clubs in the world to sign him. If we can do so, even for 㿞m, sign him up, we would double our money in no time. This lad is impressing everyone right now and will only continue to do so. 㿞m would be a sound investment.

Can we make the Sporting situation a bit clearer. To win their case, the Sporting players do not need to just prove they were attacked by fans (which they clearly where and Das Bost has the stitches to prove it) they ALSO have to prove that this was instigated by De Carvalho, the Sporting President / Chairman. Without proof of instigation by De Carvalho, just being attacked by fans should not be enough to see the contracts rescinded.

Steve Ferns
20 Posted 19/06/2018 at 16:05:37
Also, I do not believe that Sporting or the Players will actually contest their case in court.

What can Sporting do? They can argue the players are still under contract whilst the case is pending and apply for an injunction to prevent them playing for anyone else.

What can the players do? Even if they lose their case, they can appeal and the whole Bosman case took so long that Bosman himself was finished as a player by the time the case came to an end. If the case takes as long as the Bosman case, and there's no doubt that it would be an even bigger case than that, then the players contracts would have all ended.

What about European football as a whole? There's a chance this case could destroy the whole transfer market. Most clubs might not think the market is fair but I doubt many will be queuing up to take a hammer to the current system. If the likes of Real Madrid really wanted to destroy the system they could have challenged it in the courts long ago.

The reality is that all of these players will leave Sporting and the clubs will all pay a reasonable amount of compensation to keep the purchaser and Sporting reasonably happy. In other words we could get William Carvalho for around half of his reported £35m price tag, and probably about the same for Gelson Martins was considered a £40-50m player before this all happened.

But then again Sporting President De Carvalho is an absolute nutcase and he could insist on taking this matter to court, and kill the careers of the players concerned and probably the Sporting Club too.

for what it's worth, Sporting just appointed the old freekick maestro Siniša Mihajlović as manager and surely that indicates they want to resolve matters and concentrate on next season?

Kenny Smith
21 Posted 19/06/2018 at 17:01:28
De Ligt for 㿞 million is ridiculous. He is 18 and playing in a league where no team would win our Championship.

Why not go and try and bring Stones back? He's not wanted by Man City and would definitely improve us.

Jay Wood

22 Posted 19/06/2018 at 17:24:56
Actually Sam and Steve, I haven't pronounced much or anything about Gelson Martins on here, but I can confirm that many a Sporting fan get exasperated with him.

Recall Tom Hank playing Forest Gump and getting selected for his college American Football team? When his team mates and supporters yelled 'Run, Forest, Run!'? Then when he entered the touchdown zone, 'STOP! Forest STOP!'?

Martins is a bit like that. Blistering pace, not a lot of thinking going on upstairs. He may develop, but his raw pace alone doesn't cut it for me.

As for the Sporting contract question, the problem is very much the abrasive and arrogant president, Bruno de Carvalho (no relation to the player!).

He is totally indiscreet in his public statements and whilst it cannot, as Steve says, be definitely proven his comments incited the attack on Sporting players at their training camp by Sporting 'Ultras', they without doubt did influence some nutters.

Carvalho is a grade one prat! He insists on sitting on the bench alongside his manager and the subs and is never shy of sharing his tactical 'knowledge' of what needs to be done. As Steve mentions, Carvalho is a big enough nutter – and narcissist – to contest matters in the courts rather than meekly submit.

Any one interested in a Sporting player looking to sever his ties with the club risk getting caught up in a lot of protracted afters.

I see Carvalho is now offering to resign his post – an elected one, by the supporters association – before the club presidential election in a few days. Bizarrely, with the club in meltdown, losing financial assets such as the international players choosing to rip up their contracts, Carvalho still retains a lot of support among Sporting fans and it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he could be re-elected.

Caveat Emptor – Buyer Beware!

Jay Wood

23 Posted 19/06/2018 at 17:27:26
Kenny @ 21:

"Why not go and try and bring Stones back? He's not wanted by Man City."

Pep Guardiola seems to think differently:

"As long as I'm in Manchester, John Stones will be as well"

Sam Hoare
24 Posted 19/06/2018 at 17:34:22
Apologies, Jay and Steve if I put words into your mouth, though it seems I was in the right ball park intuiting that you were not massive fans of the player. Perhaps getting him on a free would be good business though no doubt he would be expecting huge wages.

As said above the Echo suggest there is no genuine interest there. Would certainly rather have Lozano myself though that option may disappear if he continues to shine brightly in the World Cup.

David Israel
25 Posted 19/06/2018 at 17:59:47
Steve (#20) and Jay (#22), as shown in the case of Rui Patricio and Wolves, the Sporting players who cancelled their contracts unilaterally (that is what happened, not a request for contract termination, and is provided for under Portuguese league rules), are free to sign for any other club. The matter will be ruled on, not by the courts, I think, but by an arbitration panel that rules on such matters in Portuguese football.

From the moment the players have walked out, the Portuguese FA will issue their international certificate to all comers. Of course, if the arbitration panel decides in favour of Sporting, someone will have to pay them compensation (officially the player, but any club signing any of the 'rebels' will probably be contractually-bound to do so themselves).

Jay Wood

26 Posted 19/06/2018 at 18:14:46
Yes David @ 25. That is all correct.

However, that doesn't take into account the barking de Carvalho. He is the issue. He is very much someone who would resort to the courts, if only out of spite. Some players have said they would reconsider their decision if he stepped down.

The Sporting Presidential Elections (and other positions) are scheduled in four days time – 23 June.

If de Carvalho hasn't already stepped down before then, and if as I wrote he gets re-elected (he still retains a great deal of support among some of the fan base who have a vote), then if I was a player and victim of the fans' assault and de Carvalho's public abuse, I too would want out.

The Portuguese Football Federation may well have rules in place rules to apply in this scenario. They cannot prevent either de Carvalho, the Sporting Club or the players from pursuing their democratic right and taking out litigation of their own through the courts.

David Israel
27 Posted 19/06/2018 at 18:20:39
Yes, Jay, 'the barking de Carvalho' cannot certainly be excluded from these considerations. By the way, from what I'm told, it is not an election that is taking place there, but rather a general meeting with the purpose of removing said barking person.

As for recourse to courts and democratic rights, both the Portuguese league, representing the clubs, and the players union, have agreed that the arbitration panel should decide on these matters. Arbitration rules, as you may know, generally preclude further appeal to courts.

Steve Ferns
28 Posted 19/06/2018 at 18:27:03
Yes David, what Jay says is right. CAS would be stage one in this process and do not think that we would not get to stage 7 or 8 of separate proceedings. How many sets of proceedings do you think Mr Bosman went through?

Rui Patricio may have signed for Wolves, but they know they may have to pay compensation and would be prepared to do so. Whether Sporting will take out an injunction on stopping him playing for Wolves until the matter is resolved is the question. I believe it would be very easy for Sporting to get such an injunction, whilst the matter is resolved of course, and it would be easy to clog this up in legal process for art least 3 years. Of course that is all extremely expensive, so as always it comes down to money and Sporting do not have much, and so the Premier League sides are likely to win the day.

Edit: David, you cannot preclude a right of appeal. There's a long list of lawyers who profess they can take down the football transfer system. It's not built on the most secure of foundations. This matter will run and run unless all parties act swift to reach an agreement.

David Israel
29 Posted 19/06/2018 at 18:38:44
Thank you, Steve.

I did not have the CAS in mind, but the Portuguese arbitration panel. And yes, arbitration awards are legally binding on both sides. English law differs slightly on this from normal international practice, but I didn't have English law in mind when writing this (although I confess to not being and expert on Portuguese law).

Steve Ferns
30 Posted 19/06/2018 at 18:46:56
Actually David, the panel is not binding. There is always a right of appeal. Even where there is expressly stated not to be a right of appeal, a good lawyer will always have another avenue to take the case down.

Ultimately, you are confusing a transfer tribunal which determines transfer values to a complex case that could effectively bring down the whole European Transfer system, CAS would certainly kick this one to the courts and it would go through several layers and reach the highest court in Europe, The European Court of Justice (ECJ).

Do you not think Bosman's case went through a number of tribunals that were legally binding? It doesn't matter, because these tribunals are not legally binding and can always by easily taken to courts.

Edit: For any interested, those legally binding Parking Fine courts can also be appealed. Don't get put off by the small print. You can appeal it.

David Israel
31 Posted 19/06/2018 at 18:54:28
Steve, I don't think this case can be compared with the Bosman one, and I don't share your view that it threatens the whole European transfer system. 'Harassment at the workplace' is, by and large, what is at stake here, and I think that any player anywhere in Europe could cancel his contract under such circumstances without endangering the transfer system.

And I am not confusing this arbitration panel with a transfer tribunal.

Steve Ferns
32 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:02:09
David, what you may consider to be a very simple matter can actually be a very complicated one. You think lawyers play fair and shake hands when they lose? The loser will go to the next level. That's the thing you are missing here. That's when this matter becomes complicated.

The parallel to the Bosman one is very, very real. The whole transfer system will come crashing down soon or later, there's plenty of lawyers out there who say they can do it, they just need a client with deep enough pockets.

David Israel
33 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:04:44
Steve, not wishing to go on indefinitely, players terminating their contracts unilaterally has happened before in Portugal (usually due to wages in arrears) and nothing has come crumbling down.
Steve Ferns
34 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:14:39
Not being paid wages is breach of contract. The club doesn't have a leg to stand on. Here it's a complicated argument about the president having a causal link to the actions of the fans.

The transfer system balances delicately on an agreement made that re-established the transfer system in 2001. Many lawyers question this agreement. The European Commision said after the Bosman case:

“International transfer systems based on arbitrarily calculated fees that bear no relation to training costs should be prohibited, regardless of the nationality of the player and whether the transfer takes place during or at the end of the contractual period.”

We've been waiting for a serious challenge ever since Anelka threatened to take his transfer to the courts in 2006. No one has had the money or appetite. Once someone does the system is in serious danger of coming crashing down. It all comes down to how much of a fight De Carvalho puts up, and whether Sporting can accept a payment for Martins who has a £53m release clause.

David Israel
35 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:17:43
All right, Steve, the transfer system is not what is at stake here, and I agree it could one day be successfully challenged. But let's not confuse the European Commission with UEFA or FIFA, two much larger bodies with headquarters outside the European Union.
Steve Ferns
36 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:22:02
The European Commission was speaking after their Court gave the final ruling on UEFA's transfer system.

Most contracts state that the legal system with jurisprudence is England and Wales. Perhaps, the Sporting players say Portugal. E&W is far more likely. Switzerland is very unlikely.

The ECJ can decide on this case if someone does not accept the ruling and wants to appeal. It can go all the way up the chain, just like Bosman's little case. That was a very uncomplicated and easy issue and it became massive and very complicated. It always does when you want to change your argument to make it better.

David Israel
37 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:28:42
Steve, like I said, I don't want want to go on and on (unlike the lady), and I'm sure our readers (if any are left) are now bored stiff. The European Commission can only rule on UEFA transfer rules as they apply to members of the European Union. That should be pretty clear.

And yes, moving the goal posts can be rather tiresome.

Dermot Byrne
38 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:32:22
Despite previous lawyer pisstake, impressed, if not bamboozled, by this.

Go to RAWK – latest debate is on best knob on Love Island.

Steve Ferns
39 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:35:47
David, the jurispudence is most likely to be within the legal system of England and Wales. The English courts apply. Our legal system applies. The ECJ has the final ruling.

If not our legal system, then it's portugal. And no one stipulates Switzerland as the jurisprudence.

The issue would be determined by the laws of the European Union.

The only reason it wouldn't is if the loser lacks the appetite (financial ability) to go to the next level.

David Israel
40 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:41:11
I don't think so, Steve. Our jurisprudence is referred to widely, abroad, but mainly on commercial and insurance contracts. Footballer contracts are labour contracts, nothing else, and I can't see a contract between a Portuguese club and a Portuguese player to be using our jurisprudence.
Steve Ferns
41 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:50:20
David, they nearly all do. Every player's contract names it's jurisprudence. It's nearly always England and Wales. It doesn't matter whether it's a transfer between Austria and Poland, it'll still name England and Wales as having Jurisprudence. It'll also stipulate a tribunal to resolve low level disputes.

Let's say we are talking about Martins cancelling his contract and joining Everton. Sporting lose in the tribunal. They can then sue the player for breach of contract in their local courts. Everton would have to then go across and argue the Court does not have authority. There would then be an application to dismiss the case. Sporting lose again. They then appeal to a higher court, and Everton then again get the case dismissed for lack of Jurisprudence. Eventually, the case ends up in the European Courts and they do have jurisprudence and so are forced to hear the case. There is no way they are bound by a lowly tribunal. There are many, many layers to go through.

It costs a lot of money, and so it is unlikely Sporting would spend so much money going through the courts to do so. Everton may decide it is not worth the cost or time, especially if Sporting are granted an injunction to stop the payer playing for us.

It is so easy for a rich person or rich corporation to abuse legal process in this manner, and eventually they will find an argument, or an angle as the case develops.

Tony Abrahams
42 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:50:38
Most of this is over my head, mostly because of how repetitive it is but, when a scholar like Arsenal Wenger says that it won't be long before transfers are a thing of the past, then I'm sure this is a debate that is only going to get stronger.
Steve Ferns
43 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:54:34
Yes, Tony, it's only one major court case away. There's a long list of European Lawyers who claim the system is illegal. FIFpro brought a challenge to the system recently. They made some minor changes to protect FIFpro's members in countries like Romania, who were being "treated like slaves" and not allowed to leave their contracts despite contracts not being met by the clubs.

They left alone the major transfers, because there is simply too much money involved. But legal commentators were all saying the whole transfer system has no legal basis. Many of them were saying that it will get brought down, it's just a question of who will do it, and mainly why.

Tony Abrahams
44 Posted 19/06/2018 at 19:59:56
Would it be in a super agents best interests Steve, or do,you think the present system suits them better?
Steve Ferns
45 Posted 19/06/2018 at 20:03:16
Most of the super agents get paid by the clubs, Tony. The present system certainly suits them, and a new system might look to cut them out altogether. They would certainly subscribe to the "I'm alright, Jack" mantra.
Tony Abrahams
46 Posted 19/06/2018 at 20:26:54
I'm not sure, Steve, because although they get paid by the clubs, they also represent the players. No fees, so every good player will be looking for more money, and shorter contracts maybe? Meaning much more work for these mongrels, and possibly a lot more money?
Steve Ferns
47 Posted 19/06/2018 at 20:32:36
Who knows, Tony? But if you have to devise a whole new system then surely you try to cap their income from transfers.
Tony Abrahams
48 Posted 19/06/2018 at 20:39:45
The players will be free to come and go whenever their contract is over, no fees, just massive wages, which will surely give these Agents, a lot more power, than they already possess?
Steve Ferns
49 Posted 19/06/2018 at 20:47:11
They won't let that happen because they need to protect the clubs who develop players. It's all hypotheticals though. No one knows what they'll eventually come up with.
Tony Abrahams
50 Posted 19/06/2018 at 20:57:41
All hypotheticals indeed Steve, a very messy mine-field, but this is usually the way when so much money is at stake.

It might actually help kids who are trying to make their way in the game.It might force the clubs, to give longer contracts to the younger players, which might just help give them the confidence, as well as more time, to develop?

Steve Ferns
51 Posted 19/06/2018 at 20:59:21
Why give longer contracts if you can just rip them up? And I don't think the changes would necessarily make things better. There's always corruption of any system.
Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 19/06/2018 at 21:15:29
Why develop players in the first place then? It's a select few who always cop for most of the money, and that's never a good thing, because as you say Steve, it's usually because of corruption.

Maybe Moshiri, is trying to get ahead of the game (with regards to Rianola) because, if transfers do get abolished, then as I've said, I'm sure it's just going to give these super agents even more power.

I wonder how Jean Marc Bosman, is doing now? Because he's probably responsible for making more millionaires than anyone else on the planet, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's skint!

Steve Ferns
53 Posted 19/06/2018 at 21:22:37
Riola is a despicable character. I hope we stay well clear of him. He's worse even than Mendes and his long-term involvement cannot be good for the club.

Bosman, well read all about him now

Steve Ferns
54 Posted 19/06/2018 at 21:29:24
Cue tomorrow's rumours of Everton transfers:

Jack Wilshere has just confirmed he will leave on a Bosman. (How apt, Tony!)

Tom Bowers
55 Posted 19/06/2018 at 21:43:24
Let's all agree on one thing, the squad was woefully lacking in all around skill last season unless we are to believe that Koeman and Allardyce were totally to blame for the poor performances by almost all of them for the most part.

Given that situation I believe it would be no-brainer not to attempt some kind of a deal to bring Wilshere to Goodison Park.

Yes. he does get injured but after returning for the Gooners last season he was really excellent and for Southgate to leave him out of the England squad after what we witnessed yesterday was downright criminal.

Quality players like him don't become available everyday so the club should make a serious approach for him.

Tony Abrahams
56 Posted 19/06/2018 at 21:43:56
Thanks for that read, Steve, I had a feeling that Bosman had fell on hard times. As I said, he's probably helped to create as many millionaires as the national lottery, but the vultures don't help because they are all too busy making more money.

Footballers were doing alright before Bosman, just like agents are doing alright now, but imagine the money these vultures are going to be earning if transfer fees are ever abolished. No-one could ever have envisaged 𧴜 Million footballers when Bosman helped change the face of football forever.

The only thing I like about the modern game is that the pitches are so much better!

Dave Abrahams
57 Posted 19/06/2018 at 21:50:21
Tony (52), a fund was set up for Bosman asking footballers who had profited from "The Bosman Ruling" to contribute and help Bosman, whose career had gone south after he had forced the rule to come into existence. He got very little from these now millionaires.
Tony Abrahams
58 Posted 19/06/2018 at 21:55:42
Why would they contribute, Dave? They don't even know him!
Derek Taylor
59 Posted 19/06/2018 at 22:19:24
I've always thought the concept of clubs OWNING players is akin to slavery although very well paid if 'the master' is a club above Division One level!

It can't be long for this modern world and I believe we shall soon see contracts of one season's length only.

Trouble is, I've left it a bit late to get my agent's licence – if such things are still necessary !!!

Paul Kossoff
60 Posted 19/06/2018 at 23:19:36
The Red Echo have had a good dig at us again, saying we haven't bid, enquired, offered or asked about anyone, according to them.
Peter Thistle
61 Posted 19/06/2018 at 23:21:52
This is shaping up to be the most boring transfer window in our history (and we've had some woeful ones over the years).

Sure is boring waiting for something to happen while other clubs are snapping up players; we are Everton, slower than a stoned sloth with asthma.

David Israel
62 Posted 20/06/2018 at 00:30:00
Tony (#48), players are already free to leave at the end of their contracts. That was the Bosman ruling.

What I can't see is how anyone would propose replacing the current system. A contract is a contract, and that's a basic tenet of law. I don't know how it could be claimed that it is illegal for clubs to ask whatever money they want in order to release players from their contracts.

Terry White
63 Posted 20/06/2018 at 00:52:38
Peter (#61) is turning into one of the TW "complain about anything and everything" contributors.

Since most of what we read and hear is rumour and paper talk, and I can only see the occasional transfer that has actually happened with a Premier League team (nothing earth-shattering).

I would much rather allow our new management team time to assess what players we already have before rushing into trying to sign somebody whom we may not need just because Peter Thistle is bored..

Steve Ferns
64 Posted 20/06/2018 at 02:09:00
Marseille are in for Schneiderlin. If any Frenchman asks you how well he's been playing make sure you wax lyrical about him.

㿀m? Bargain lads. It's a deal, it's a steal, it's sale of the effing century, in fact he's so good we think we might keep him!

Nah go on, you twisted our arms.

Derek Thomas
65 Posted 20/06/2018 at 02:23:15
I won't believe any transfer until I see a picture of the player, stood under a big sign at Finch Farm, preferably shaking hands with Usmanov... or his duly appointed nominee, deputy or employee.
Fran Mitchell
66 Posted 20/06/2018 at 02:47:10
Steve Ferns: if we could swap Schneiderlin's wage for Wilshere's, and get 㿀 million on the coffers in the process, that'd be fuckin' great.

Wilshere on a 2-year contract, with another 2 years 'rolling'. Wages related to fitness and certain requirements (weight, smoking, performance).

He could still be a top quality creative midfielder, we have zero creative midfielders. Gueye, Wilshere, Sigurdsson in the middle with competition from Baningime, Davies, Dowell, Williams and maybe one signing. Sales of Klaassen, Schneiderlin, Besic, McCarthy, and Rooney.

Jamie Crowley
67 Posted 20/06/2018 at 03:21:27
De Ligt-ful.

If we pay way too much for an 18-year-old centre-back, surely the witty Goodison faithful can craft a song for the boy?


Right, Dermot @18?

Fran Mitchell
68 Posted 20/06/2018 at 03:31:55
As for De Ligt, of course we won't sign him, and that more or less confirms he will become Europe's best defender and cost someone about 𧴺 million in 3 years time.
Jerome Shields
69 Posted 20/06/2018 at 04:28:28
I'm not taking transfer window seriously at the moment.

Sporting Lisbon are a mess; I'm not surprised Everton are being linked. Players on holiday and the World Cup slowing down decisions.

I don't expect Everton will sign many players anyway and Brands will be working hard (as he expected) to offload players, which will be difficult. I'm glad Rooney was spooked to get on his bike early. . .

A lot of media speculation as usual and agents trying to catch big mugs with money. I hope Moshiri is on holiday.

Alan J Thompson
70 Posted 20/06/2018 at 04:47:01
Has anyone mentioned the possibility of a swap for Klaassen? Although it does sound like overloading one position by making another less crowded.

Given the number of young central defenders we've sent out on loan, would this bloke really get a game?

Laurie Hartley
71 Posted 20/06/2018 at 05:44:25
I have only seen this lad on YouTube but, if that is anything to go by, I would sell the farm for him.

He is 6'-2", and has got legs like Johnny Morrisey, shoulders like Sivan Distin. He is very strong and mobile, can tackle, head the ball, shoot, and bring the ball out of defence. My kind of footballer.

Victor Yu
72 Posted 20/06/2018 at 06:06:39
A Klassen swap won't work as teams in Holland won't be able to pay his salary.
Andrew Ellams
73 Posted 20/06/2018 at 07:51:09
Jerome the problem with the new transfer window dates are that they only leave 3 weeks after the World Cup finishes. I'm not optimistic in the slightest about this summer for Everton and if Silva can't polish the players he's inherited we have a massive problem.
Bobby Mallon
74 Posted 20/06/2018 at 09:00:05
We need to get one thing straight about John Stones. The boy is going to be the best centre-half this country has had. He has it all and, as the years go by, he will learn and get better. Don't be surprised if he is playing at Madrid or Barcelona in the near future. A class player and I wish he was still here.
Sam Hoare
75 Posted 20/06/2018 at 09:36:36
Fran @66 is Wilshere a top quality creative midfielder?

He's certainly tidy is possession but in terms of actually creating chances I'd say he's decent but nowhere near top quality (Ozil, De Bruyne, Fabregas, Eriksen etc)

In his 22 starts and 5 sub appearances at Bournemouth a few years ago he managed no goals and only 2 assists.

I think on the right deal (fitness dependent etc) he could be an asset to the team but I'm not certain he'd be a nailed on starter. He'd be behind Sigurdsson to be creative playmaker I reckon though perhaps he could play the box to box role? Or even the deeper sitting 6 at a push? I think he'll end up somewhere where he's virtually guaranteed to be starting every week.

Steve Ferns
76 Posted 20/06/2018 at 09:45:48
I don't think Wilshere is the type of player we would want. To play deep, he lacks the tackling ability, but he certainly has the passing ability. To play box to box, does he really have that energy to get up and down all game now? To play behind the striker, sure he can do it, but Silva also wants this player to be energetic and close down.

I think he'd be better for Bournemouth as he suits their style and system and it's closer to home. He also has all those injury issues, and he's not got long left at the top in his career. He'd command at least £100k a week, and he's just too big a risk for me. After the Rooney failure, it's not a risk worth taking.

Tony Abrahams
77 Posted 20/06/2018 at 11:24:06
David@62, I understand the Bosman ruling, but I don't think the players did at first though mate.

Remember Liverpool, sending Mcmanaman to Barcelona, and although no transfer took place, the kid then realised that if he saw out his contract, he would be free to leave for nothing?

My own view, is that the player had never thought about leaving until this happened? Liverpool put the idea into his head, and by seeing out his contract, and signing for Madrid, with no fee involved, then I'm sure McManaman, made a few million quid overnight?

Football suits the biggest teams, or clubs who have got the most money. Why pay an astronomical transfer fee, when you can just give the player a contract worth more money, to that said individual?

Things change, there's always changes, and the greedy players, getting pushed on by these money for nothing manipulators, are only going to get greedier, simply because it's one of the biggest human traits.

If Bosman, is telling the truth, he never envisaged the monster that has been created, and whilst I agree the present system looks okay, we all know money ruins everything!

Martin Berry
78 Posted 20/06/2018 at 12:33:24
Interesting this thread has moved onto Wilshere. I think he could be a brilliant signing, he needs nurturing and fitness, he has the tools to a special player.

His situation reminds me of Peter Reid, bit of a crock at the time of transfer but had all the abilities when sound.

Derek Knox
79 Posted 20/06/2018 at 13:39:05
I agree if we could get Wilshere for a signing on fee would be a good move. If, like many have said, moving Schneiderlin on (please, please,) would probably be on comparable wages.

The only thing is his fitness, but again allegedly, his injury problems are supposed to be behind him, not sure how they can say that.

Richard Lyons
80 Posted 20/06/2018 at 14:27:11
I don't like Wilshere.

I can't forget one time when he was playing for England with Barkley (probably the only time), it was so obvious he was Not Going To Pass To Barkley, even though Ross got himself into great positions; so in my eyes, he's clearly not a team player.

Also, one of these days he is surely going to bite his own tongue off.

Alan J Thompson
81 Posted 20/06/2018 at 14:27:42
Victor (#72); Neither can the Turks but there was talk of a 2-year loan deal. This way Ajax get to keep the 㿄 Mill and the player and may be part of his wages paid, or he's offered ٣ Mill to move, and Everton actually come out with something. A bigger pay packet isn't the only thing in life.
Paul Dewhurst
82 Posted 20/06/2018 at 14:40:26
Silva has said he wants to play 4-3-3 and people want us to sign Wilshire, I can't understand it? He's not going to be a box-to-box player, he's not going to be a Number 6, so what position on the bench would you like him to have? It beggars belief that he can't even look good for Bournemouth and people want us to sign him, Why?
Tony Twist
83 Posted 20/06/2018 at 14:51:50
Wilshere? Jesus, I despair if Everton are even contemplating bring him in. He only has to look at a football and he gets injured! The modern-day Jamie Redknapp, stay clear Everton.
Martin Berry
84 Posted 20/06/2018 at 15:42:39
Cant say Carvalho has shown anything to so far in the World Cup to think that Marco would be interested, free or not.

Only seems to plod along spraying 5-yard passes! He does not appear to have the engine even for a deep sitting defensive midfielder in the Premier League.

The lad Martins did not offer anything either; however, in Marco we trust!

John Wells
85 Posted 20/06/2018 at 16:03:43
Would anyone think I'm mad suggesting Declan Rice? I really think this lad is class but not as a centre back as the holding midfielder? Get De Ligt and Rice in and build a team around them.

Silva seems to have no fear of playing young guys as long as they do the business on the training ground which is music to my ears (not being ageist as I love to see a 32-year-old get his just rewards for efforts in training also!).

Anyway would like to know what you guys think of Rice?

Christy Ring
86 Posted 20/06/2018 at 17:21:37
Carvalho no addition, Martins lost possession every time he got the ball, but coming on with 30 minutes left, it's hard to play especially with Portugal on the back foot.

As for Wilshere, apart from his constant injuries, he has no discipline, and I agree with Roy Keane, the most overrated player on the planet.

Martin Berry @78, his situation reminds you of 'Peter Reid'?, I hope you're having a laugh, I wouldn't even compare him to Ross Barkley.

Jackie Barry
87 Posted 20/06/2018 at 17:39:38
How many of our players are even at the World Cup, is it 3? Just wondering why things seem to be moving so slowly right now on assessments of current squad players and what is required. I will admit I fear us starting this coming season like last year and there being no real direction. Disappointed so far.
James Hughes
88 Posted 20/06/2018 at 17:59:49
I wouldn't have Wilshere anywhere near our club, less than 200 Premier League appearances in 10 years with Arsenal.

Injury prone, 26-year-old who smokes. He doesn't need nurturing – he needs a huge kick up the arse.

Lev Vellene
89 Posted 20/06/2018 at 18:47:14
James #88

Why do only we fans (and some footie manager games...) see that some players are permanent sick-notes even if they switch clubs? I love James McCarthy when he's in a working condition, but when could he last string 10 games together without being out for at least the same amount of time?

I want our physios to work on normal casualties, not on players arriving with pre-made lists of treatments from their former physios... JMcC got there with us, I admit, but we've bought so much damaged crockery over the years! Did any of those work out? Did anyone notice the names to tell us, compared to who failed?

Martin Berry
90 Posted 20/06/2018 at 18:58:35
Christy (#86),

Not comparing the players' ability as Reidy is my fave Everton player... Just thinking how injured players once straight can flourish as did Peter, nobody wanted him with having two broken legs!

James Flynn
91 Posted 20/06/2018 at 19:49:46
Are a few of you joking around? No to Wilshere, for God's sake.

A 26-year old who still is on "potential". Christ, I want Besic gone (about to turn 26). But I'd rather give our own sick-note a go than sign this paycheck collector Wilshere. Besic will never be good enough, but at least tries.

Be interesting times at Arsenal, after all these years of Wenger. Even with him, they've slowly slid down the Table.

Emery's first working thru the 38-game slugfest he's about to experience.

And, despite all the cash they rake in, Kroenke's view of what a transfer budget should be.

If Silva can put a Team together (Which I think he can. We do have talent), no reason Everton can't finish ahead of the Gunners.

Sam Hoare
92 Posted 21/06/2018 at 08:15:24
I'd prefer Loftus-cheek to Wilshere as a box to box player. He's big and strong and fast with no small amount of skill. I don't think Chelsea can guarantee him the playing time he wants so could be available. Though if he has a few more good moments at the World Cup they'll either want to keep him or charge something exorbitant.
Brian Harrison
93 Posted 21/06/2018 at 09:01:19

I have been banging on for months about how we should sign Loftus-Cheek. Mind, I think a good World Cup and Sarri might want to have a look at him for himself assuming he gets the Chelsea job.

Sam Hoare
94 Posted 21/06/2018 at 09:17:45
Brian, he'll certainly take a look but I wonder if they can guarantee the playing time he wants over the likes of Kante, Bakayoko, Fabregas, Willian, Pedro, Barkley, Drinkwater etc

Come to think of it Drinkwater might be an interesting option for a new No 6. Hard worker and has a great passing range as witnessed in Leicester's title win.

James Morgan
95 Posted 21/06/2018 at 09:52:40
I agree with the comments on Loftus-Cheek. The lad is class and would fit nicely along side Gana and Sigurdsson in a 3. Quick, strong, athletic and direct, just what we need.
Derek Taylor
96 Posted 21/06/2018 at 09:56:35
Brian at 93: After last summer's spendfest, I worry that the likes of Loftus Cheek may now be beyond us.

Whatever you think of him, Moshiri will have learned a lesson and may be far more cautious this time round.

I rather think this year's 'scoops' will be of a more modest nature – both in quality (supposed) and price!

Michael Lynch
97 Posted 21/06/2018 at 10:08:13
Loftus-Cheek has been top of my want list for a while too, and watching his cameo appearance against Tunisia, I'm even more convinced. But I think there's close to zero chance of us buying him to be honest.

I'd have the other sub, Rashford, in a heartbeat too.

Laurie Hartley
98 Posted 21/06/2018 at 10:10:42
Sam Hoare # 94 - good shout on Drinkwater.
Brian Harrison
99 Posted 21/06/2018 at 10:34:56
I agree that if Chelsea are mad enough to sell him there will be clubs with deeper pockets than us who will be in for him. Certainly looked as if Drinkwater wasn't a Conte buy and I know he has been injured but I don't think he fancied Barkley either. Regarding Rashford I said at the time of Man Utd buying Lukaku I wish we would have lowered the price provided Rashford came to us. But like Loftus Cheek I think if Rashford wanted a move he would be attracting a lot of top teams, so another who is out of our reach.
Joe McCormick
100 Posted 23/06/2018 at 20:35:47
I may have missed it but, in almost 100 posts, no-one has mentioned a teenage centre-half already on our books. With Silva and Brands looking to put their faith in youth... why not give Feeny a run?
Dave Abrahams
101 Posted 23/06/2018 at 21:04:00
Joe (#100), Feeney is one for the future but he might be overtaken by the young lad we signed from Newcastle, Lewis Gibson. He could cost us ٤M if he makes it all the way and he is well rated by people at the club.
Ian Bennett
102 Posted 23/06/2018 at 21:25:27
Loftus-Cheek and Zouma would be two great buys.
Dave Abrahams
103 Posted 24/06/2018 at 09:04:57
Michael Kenrick @ (101), thanks for inserting Lewis Gibson into my post instead of Morgan, I have a mental block over this young lad's name for some reason.

Thanks again.

Sam Hoare
104 Posted 24/06/2018 at 09:14:44
Ian, I agree. I suspect many would laugh at the prospect of Zouma but he was arguably Stoke's best player last year; he's strong and more mobile than all of our lot (bar Holgate possibly). He wouldn't be top of my list and he's pretty right footed but I still think he'll be a decent player. Only 22 still.

Perhaps we could do a buy 3 get 1 free deal with Chelsea:


Says a lot that those 4 players who are on the fringes for Chelsea would probably all go straight into our first team!

Sam Hoare
105 Posted 24/06/2018 at 09:25:23
Actually Zouma is much quicker than I give him credit for and was in top 10 fastest in the league last season behind Vardy and ahead of Mane.

So he'd be the quickest in the squad if we signed him. Which there's zero indication we will.

Ian Bennett
106 Posted 24/06/2018 at 11:05:43
Agreed mate, it ain't going to happen as we have the oil tanker Keane on a big contract – but he would be a cracking buy.

A real shame that we made such a hash last summer, as with some thought there are gettable players – Loftus-Cheek, Wilshere, Zouma, the Mexican lad if we had pulled our fingers out etc.

Derek Taylor
107 Posted 24/06/2018 at 11:50:32
Of course, as ever, 'the proof of the pudding will be in the eating' but there seems to be an increasing tone on this thread that we are no longer contenders for the top- or even second-tier buys.

Whatever miracles Silva is able to perform with last season's very averagely performing squad, he will need to bring in three or four new additions if we are only to improve on our points total.

None of the names being put forward as likely and realistic targets are exactly inspiring or promise other than more of the same. Hence, the likes of Lofthus-Cheek, Ratchford and Zouma can be written off as beyond us, ie, too good for Everton. Really, what have we come to?

Martin Nicholls
108 Posted 24/06/2018 at 12:00:54
I don't believe that someone like Zouma (or for that matter Drinkwater) is beyond us – he's just spent a season on loan at Stoke!

We've "borrowed" from Chelsea before (after the player involved had spent a season on loan at WBA) and that loan turned into a very successful permanent move!

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