Stalemate at the London Stadium

By Michael Kenrick 18/01/2020 300comments  |  Jump to last
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Yerry Mina has another knock that makes him doubtful for the game at the London Stadium

Everton make their first trip back to the Capital since the opening day of the season to take on West Ham at the London Stadium this weekend.

Richarlison and Sigurdsson were ruled out with injury. Keane also absent through illness; while Kean started upfront with Calvert-Lewin.

Things got under way at the London Stadium with a poor ball back to Pickford causing a botched clearance that went behind needlessly for an early corner to West Ham, but it was defended well enough.

The early exchanges were not of the best quality, neither side able to show much continuity in possession. Kean went down, Richarlison style, after being palmed away in the face.

The rubbish football showed little sign of improvement, though Calvert-Lewin did chase down a long ball, only to bring it back to the middle for more fruitless poor passing and relentless turnovers.

Finally, a bit of decent Everton play saw Digne cross too deep, beyond the far post but at least it represented an attack. That encouraged the home side to put together their first half-decent attack, a ball in from Haller bouncing just in front of Pickford's far post.

Calvert-Lewin drilled a forward pass well beyond Kean and that saw West Ham play in Snodgrass who had fortunately not gotten back onside; no goal. Haller got another chance to go through after a dreadfully turnover, firing at Pickford's legs. More Hammers attacks threatened, a vital interception by Digne stopping the move.

Another turnover, this time in Everton's favour, seemed to put the ball right onto Calvert-Lewin's head, where it just bounced off randomly.

It was a little better when Digne curled a nice cross to Walcott at the far post but his execution of a wicked strike into the roof of the net was more like a feeble pass directly into the opposition goalkeeper's waiting arms.

Everton were looking to pass their way forward a little too slowly, not really testing the Hammers defense enough. But at the other end, a free-kick to the home side and the ball was nodded softly in off the far post by Diop, Everton behind dismally from yet another set piece.

Everton won a corner and Calvert-Lewin. nodded home, an instant response, to put the Blues back into the game. But it almost went pear-shaped at the other end but for a brilliant save pulled off by Pickford.

After the break, with Anthony Gordon replacing Bernard for his Premier League debut, Davies had a chance as the ball bounced up to him for a difficult header from a corner. Both sides were finally playing some better football and creating chances at each end,

Pickford punched out a corner but then went too far forward and fumbled an aerial grease, his blushes saved by Mina there to clear, and he was in position to head well over from a corner at the other end. Ancelotti had seen yet another ineffective performance from Walcott and made the switch after nearly an hour, Sidibe coming on.

A header from Haller needed saving as Pickford fell backwards but kept the ball in front of the line. But West Ham were pressing hard, Coleman giving up the corner, kicked straight to Sidibe by Cresswell.

But Everton broke out and won a corner that Digne launched high, Mina heading down making it easy for Randolph.

A good attack by West Ham almost earned a goal, Snodgrass getting a shot deflected to the far post where a stretching save from Pickford was probably unneeded, the ball heading beyond the woodwork.

Oumar Niasse was the final switch for Ancelotti, hauling off Moise Keane after yet another poor and unconvincing display from the young Italian who just does not seem to get the Premier League.

Another dangerous free-kick was given away but Davies headed the ball away. More pressure after Digne was deemed to have fouled saw Calvert-Lewin head away commandingly. West Ham put in another teasing ball that bounced through harmlessly.

Into the last 10 minutes and Calvert-Lewin had a hopeless strike from distance that was never going anywhere near the West Ham goal.

Anthony Gordon was getting more involved but Calvert-Lewin was called for a foul on Zabaletta with the game seemingly drifting toward a draw.

There was an incident where Holgate was floored by a head flick from Ajeti... but no red card from Simon Hooper in VAR central.

It was Everton's turn to try to make something happen, with 4 minutes of added time. Free-kicks and a late corner to Everton were not delivered well by Digne and headed away to bring an end to the game, Everton with a point rather than all three.

Kick-off: 3pm, Saturday, 18 January 2020
Referee: Andre Marriner
VAR: Simon Hooper

West Ham United: Randolph, Cresswell, Zabaleta, Diop, Ogbonna, Noble, Rice, Fornals, Snodgrass, Lanzini, Haller
Subs: Martin, Reid, Balbuena, Cardoso, Masuaku, Ajeti, Ngakia

Everton: Pickford, Coleman, Dige, Mina, Holgate, Davies, Delph, Bernard (46' Gordon), Walcott (57' Sidibe), Kean (73' Niasse), Calvert-Lewin.
Subs not Used: Stekelenburg, Baines, Schneiderlin, Gibson


Reader Comments (300)

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Steve Ferns
1 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:02:35
Team Announced:

Pickford
Coleman Mina Holgate Digne
Walcott Davies Delph Bernard
Calvert-Lewin Kean

Subs: Stekeleburg, Baines, Schneiderlin, Sidibe, Niasse, Gordon, Gibson.

No Michael Keane at all.

Carl Manning
2 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:04:25
I find the bench very telling today, Steve.
Colin Glassar
3 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:05:04
Decent looking side on paper.
Geoff Lambert
4 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:07:58
Very weak in the centre of the park.
Christy Ring
5 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:13:48
Delighted to see Kean getting a start, with Richarlison out. I'd say Keane must be injured, especially after playing well last week.
Steve Ferns
6 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:15:20
Michael Keane is said to be ill, according to people on twitter.
James Hughes
7 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:16:43
Spurs have been awful today, win this and we are only a point behind them.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

8 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:21:55
Michael Keane must be ill or injured, as reported. Nice for Gibson to make the bench. Yet another signal to Morgan Feeney that he possibly needs a move away from Everton to further his career.

Interesting that Carlo has gone with Coleman at right back rather than Sidibe for a tricky away game with players missing.

With the absentees, happy to see that midfield from what we have available.

Good chance for Moise Kean to shine. The bench does look thin, however.

Steve Ferns
9 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:23:18
James, we are two points behind them, so if the ref blows for a draw now, then we can go above them today. We just need to win 13-0.

Edit: FT 0-0 for Spurs. Come on Blues, let's win 13-0!

Tony Everan
10 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:28:17
I am happy with that team, a fantastic opportunity for Kean to impress. Looking forward to watching him play.

The centre midfield battle between Davies and Delph vs Noble and Rice could be the biggest factor of the day. Our 4 midfield boys need to be on the top of their game.

Come on you Blueboys !!!!

Kase Chow
11 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:31:12
C’mon Kean

I keep calling you the new Sandro partly cos it looks true but partly because I’d love you to prove me completely wrong

Jim Bennings
12 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:32:27
TIme for Kean to start making a name for himself, against a team that’s notoriously iffy defensively.

Yes he’s 19 but in football things won’t wait around for years, if he’s to start laying down some foundations here he needs to grab games like today with both hands, work his socks off and maybe a lucky break might come his way.

Carl Manning
13 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:38:46
Looking at the team guys. Who takes the penalty if we get one today?
Andrew Laird
14 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:38:53
West Ham have a canny knack, just like Everton, of being the team that a striker who hasn’t scored for a year bangs one in against. Over to you Moise.
Frank Crewe
15 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:38:58
@James Hughes and Steve Ferns
We would be on the same points but worse goal difference.
Andrew Laird
16 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:40:23
I would guess Digne or Dcl for a pen Carl.
George Cumiskey
17 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:47:22
How the hell does Walcott keep getting picked ? A mystery to me.
Steve Ferns
18 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:48:06
Yeah Frank, that's why I said we need to win 13-0.
Jay Harris
19 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:48:12
Lets hope for a good win today.

Sidibe has been poor the last couple of games. Maybe his head has been turned by the "Milan" opportunity so I feel it was correct to put Seamus back in and he is the only senior "Captain" available.

Like everyone else I have a feeling this is the turning point for Moise Kean and hope he does the business today.

Mina is a bit of a concern considering he was doubtful up to yesterday so lets hope he is not too troubled.

Both teams have similar goals for and against but West HAme were aided by that 4-0 against Bournemouth.

I see this game as much tighter and predict a low scoring game with the Blues edging it.

COYB

Alan J Thompson
20 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:49:10
Carl(#13)&Andrew(#16); Pickford
Robert Tressell
21 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:49:22
West Ham gone v narrow, packed the midfield and no pace in the side. Interesting tactical battle against our 442 (ish) looking approach.
Andrew Laird
22 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:52:23
Thankfully, Roberto is no longer in charge Alan.
Alan J Thompson
23 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:55:01
Andrew(#22); Didn't he take one successfully in a penalty shootout?
Andrew Laird
24 Posted 18/01/2020 at 14:58:03
I think you might be right, I’m confident that mr Ancelotti (drenched in winning Italian football) won’t be allowing Pickford the chance from open play!
Ciarán McGlone
25 Posted 18/01/2020 at 15:51:31
This endless pedestrian passing at the back is pointless and dangerous.

Simply highlights our lack of quality in midfield. Quality central midfielders are a priority.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

26 Posted 18/01/2020 at 15:59:09
What a messy half!

We are very poor in possession and on the ball. Far too ponderous in moving the ball through the lines. Only Mason Holgate a couple of times has stepped forward boldly to break the lines.

Credit to Moyes and WHU. They are pressing us high and catching us on the ball time and again.

Stupid free kick given away by Delph. Really poor defending on a nothing ball for their goal. Good corner by Digne. Vital near post header by Mason. Excellent readjustment and headed finish by Dom.

Pickford has had to make a couple of saves, but his kicking has been poor. Coleman and Digne looking shaky defending their flanks. Mina very mixed. Mason possibly our best player.

In midfield we are struggling. Tom is trying to take the game to them and threading through some good passes into the forwards, but he has also been caught and coughed up the ball a couple of times. Delph and Bernard have both been even poorer. Bernard is clever with little dinked 1-2s around their area, which don't always come off, but you can see what he is trying. But he is nowhere near the levels he displayed last week.

Walcott has been almost invisible. Kean doing well. Dom getting very little service, but he's got his goal.

Carlo will not be happy with the ponderous passing and possession. More zip needed all over the park.

Christy Ring
27 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:02:37
Noble is totally bossing midfield, we really need a ball winner, Delph is struggling, and gave away a ridiculous free kick for there goal. Can't believe Walcott didn't score. A big improvement needed in the 2nd half, Richarlison is sorely missed.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

28 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:02:57
Woohoo!

Interesting sub. Gordon on for Bernard!

This could be fun!

Phil Smith
29 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:09:21
Very interesting! Bernard was crowded out of the game there. Ancelotti throwing in a wild card to see what the lad can do. Go ‘ed!
Jim Marray
30 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:17:07
With that one cross Sidibe shows why Walcott should never be on the pitch.
Ernie Baywood
31 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:21:52
Can't quite figure out what Kean is.
Ernie Baywood
32 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:28:52
I've figured out what he is. He is absolutely dreadful.

Off.

Jim Marray
33 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:48:03
Thank god the Everton players have financial advisers because based on their decision making today they woukd be bankrupt in a week.
Ernie Baywood
34 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:55:01
Just be thankful for how poor West Ham are.
Jim Bennings
35 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:56:16
Pretty much a shit fest between two teams that look more bottom half than top half let’s face it.

We don’t score enough goals, we don’t create enough chances, we were probably just about worthy of the point, a decent point but still not anything like what we should be for the money spent.

Little snippet, only Richarlison and Dominic Calvert-Lewin have scored goals for Everton since Michael Keane netted at Anfield on December 4th.

Backs up the point I make, we don’t get anywhere near enough goals from other sources.

Brian Wilkinson
36 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:56:41
Watched Kean a few times, cannot say he has impressed me in any games he has played.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

37 Posted 18/01/2020 at 16:57:43
That was a horrible game of football. Indeed, calling it football is being generous.

Pickford and Holgate the standouts for me.

And how can VAR run a check on Ajeti back-headed nutter on Mason and not advise the ref to at least take a look?

The ball was nowhere near them. The WHU player only had one intention when making that movement. That was violent conduct and a red card all day long for me.

Ah well, another point in the bag. But not pretty.

Tony Hill
38 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:03:29
Yes, grim fare. Holgate very good. Er, that's it.
Kristian Boyce
39 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:04:38
Another great game by Holgate. Wouldn’t it be ironic if he sneaks a Euro 2020 spot ahead of Stones
Mike Allison
40 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:04:49
A decent point considering just how many players were missing. Richarlison, Sigurdsson, Gomes, Gbamin, Sigurdsson and Keane are all potential ‘first XI’ players. Not many Premier League sides will go away and get results with six first choice players missing. We’re effectively playing the entire season without the midfield we intended to have.

Edit: Add Iwobi to the list, I forgot him.

Paul Rimmer
41 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:06:15
Awful display. Reckon they got a rollicking at half time due to the amount of possession lost cheaply and hence the sub. The two centre mids were terrible, Walcott and Kean poor too. Only Holgate comes away with any credit.
Tony Hill
42 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:09:51
That's fair, of course, Mike @40. I thought we'd lose so I'm happy with a point. It would just be nice to see us doing some of the basics well, and looking fitter.
Paul Rimmer
43 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:10:23
At least watching Oumar added some comedy value.
Michael Lynch
44 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:13:06
I wish I could pretend to be a footballer as successfully as Niasse does. Absolute master of deception.
Simon Smith
45 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:13:11
Apparently Oumar has rejected a move to forest as he doesn’t want to play in the second tier. is he having a laugh. He’s not even championship standard.

My mates a forest fan, I told him that it’s a lucky escape!

Ernie Baywood
46 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:17:59
We took off Kean and brought on Niasse.

That's about 40M in transfer fees right there.

Christ.

Ray Roche
47 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:19:45
Paul @43
Every time Niasse started running I could hear the Benny Hill theme going through my mind.
Simon Dalzell
48 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:21:16
An away point,yes, but that was soul destroying. Looked like the bottom two of some league. Not Premier.
Peter Warren
49 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:22:05
Thought Delph was excellent today by far his best game for us
Derek Knox
50 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:26:37
Ray @47, yes, but his milk-cart was a lot faster and more skilful!
Ciarán McGlone
51 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:27:37
Didnt see the second half.. caught a lucky break by the sound of it.

Money required.. no getting away from it.

Minik Hansen
52 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:28:50
So, I did miss not only Richy, but also Siggy in the game. Though, we got to see Kean and Gordon, and of course Niasse, Ancelotti will have a better idea about the squad.
Bill Gienapp
53 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:29:22
Fair point, based on how the match unfolded. Thought West Ham were better in the first half and we were better in the second, but generated very little in the way of real goalscoring opportunities. Richarlison might very well have made the difference if fit.

Obviously we're going nowhere until we can go on the road and get three points against the likes of West Ham, but we're an injury-riddled work-in-progress. Still just one defeat in eight league matches since Silva was dismissed, which is solid form.

I'm sure more than a few will be roasting Moise Kean on here, but as I type this in my Moise Kean jersey that I bought from the Goodison pro shop after the Wolves match... screw it, I'm all in. I'm nailing my colors to the mast and sticking by the kid, until the bitter end, if that's what it takes. I believe in his potential and think Ancelotti will eventually find a way to unlock it.

Ray Roche
54 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:29:34
Just don’t mention Hill’s Angels Derek.

Peter, Delph was good second half but he was poor in the first. I thought he dropped a bit deaper, behind Davies and was better for it.

Dave Abrahams
55 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:29:44
Every point gained is a blessing, count the points, just don’t think about the football, we won’t get much with this squad. It can only get better.
Terence Leong
56 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:29:55
It's a poor game, and no one seems to be there to drive the team on. There is alot of effort, but decision making has been poor.

Delph looks to play only safe passes, and can't seem to be able to control the tempo of the game, which he was supposedly be able to.

Davis is a trier, but he makes far too many sloppy passes. It's one thing to play and get exposure, but I get the sense that, Davis doesn't seem he is learning to cut out the errors

The big plus is Holgate who is making the most of his opportunities, growing in confidence and experience.

James Gardner
57 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:31:51
The biggest positive to take away from this tame affair would be the character. We didn’t look as vulnerable as we previously had. The players are starting to play with confidence. This is epitomized by Holgate. What a cool customer, I’m really impressed in the way that he is maturing! Fearless with the ball and mostly looking forward with the ball.

I’d love to see him have a run of games in CM with our best 11. I think he has all the attributes to move forward and control the play more

Paul Rimmer
58 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:31:57
Ray, when I watch Oumar I see a man who cannot control what his legs are doing.
Peter Day
59 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:32:37
Still think we are being a bit unfair on Moise, don't forget he plays in a position where he is fairly reliant on receiving a half decent service which he quite clearly isn't getting. Seems like he's the kind of player to make himself a bit of space then run onto a slide rule pass played down the channel, then bang, one or two touches and it's in the net. Who can say that missed many of those type of chance? He hasn't, because he hasn't had those type of balls played in. He is not suited to coming deep, playing one twos or taking it round 3 or 4 defenders. His strengths just ain't being played to and I feel a bit for the lad. You can see he's trying but nothings coming off for him and he's getting frustrated!

Very lethargic team display again with no stand outs other than maybe Holgate.

Biggest sinners, Walcot, Bernard and Delph for giving the ball away, at least Davies was trying.

Not so long ago we wouldn't have come back at all from going one down! Think we just about deserved a point today.

Still optimistic for the future though!

UTFT

Derek Knox
60 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:37:39
Paul @ 58, can you imagine what he's like in a jiving contest then, no-one's safe, even the judges? :-)
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

61 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:42:41
Delph was poor in the first half. He had his position tweaked for the second and was so deep it times he was playing between the two centre backs.

It gave us a little more control and throttled back WHU's forward thrusts. And when he stepped forward from that position, he was picking off the ball better and distributing it much better than anything he did in a poor first half.

But over the 90 minutes the entire midfield unit, whoever it was, was pretty poor.

Julian Exshaw
62 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:44:42
I don't know about you, my esteemed fellow ToffeeWebbers, but I am still 'sulking' after that performance in the cup 3 weeks ago. For me the season died that night and with it any real hope of achieving anything this season. I fear we will hover around 10th position and the season will peter out. This showing today did nothing to spark any enthusiasm. We are badly missing quality in midfield. Gomes can't come back fast enough. Let's hope for better.
Gary Carter
63 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:49:41
Glad Michael Kean wasn't even in the squad. Hopefully some delusional blind manager will take him off our hands... he has got to be one of the worst defenders I have ever seen.
Mike Gaynes
64 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:50:09
Delph was our worst player in the first half, probably our best in the second. Really sharpened up his passing. But MOTM for me would have to be Holgate, by a nose over Pickford, whose save on that header was a stunner.
Dave Williams
65 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:50:41
Mike #40 exactly. Gomes,Gbamin, Iwobi and Richi would all be in my first choice team so a poor footballing performance is not really a surprise. At least we got a point- is that six games unbeaten now in the PL?
Holgate is the big plus to come out of Silvas departure along with Dominic starting to score goals regularly. Heartening that Carlo subbed two of the midfield four without using Schneiderlin and how good to see young Gordon given a full half.
We need to get players back from injury and/ or one or two new ones before the good football will come through and the main thing is to collect points in the meantime.
Steve Ferns
66 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:51:15
Lads, we have so many injuries. It’s not long ago we were In the bottom 3 and some were saying we were in a relegation battle. Since then, Duncan won 1 and drew 2 and now Carlo has won 3, drew 1 and lost 1. 15 points from the last 24 in the league. We didn’t play well but we’re on course now.

This was game 2 of a key 5 game period for me.
Brighton 1-0 win
West Ham 1-1 draw
Newcastle home
Watford away
C. Palace home

We need to win the two home games and the a draw at Palace and a draw at West Ham isn’t too bad. This sequence keeps us well away from the bottom few and then we go into a tough run of games with confidence and the pressure off. Confidence to try to win these games:
Arsenal away
Man Utd home
Chelsea away
Liverpool home

We got 10 points from the first five last season, so 11 would be decent this season. We got 5 points from the difficult 4 last season, but two wins (Arsenal and Man Utd?) would better this.

Mike Dolan
67 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:54:23
A point here a point there. Good game management from the sidelines is like having an extra player.
Allan Board
68 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:56:36
Transfer oumar to Strictly!
Jerome Shields
69 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:58:45
Was at a funeral, missed game. Just glad they got a draw and I didn't watch it. Glad to hear Holgate played well.
Jerome Shields
70 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:58:45
Was at a funeral, missed game. Just glad they got a draw and I didn't watch it. Glad to hear Holgate played well.
Phil Smith
71 Posted 18/01/2020 at 17:59:08
We need 1 quality signing during to window to bring some optimism back into the squad. Creative and fast type in central mid.
Brian Williams
72 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:01:31
We desperately need two midfielders, two who will, when Gbamin and Gomes are available again, compliment them and form a strong and creative midfield.
None of our present incumbents are good enough for a club aspiring to be in the top six.
The back four often have nobody showing well for the ball and as a result our play is slow and ponderous.
A good midfield would solve this.
Our attackers are often starved of decent service, again a good midfield would solve this too. Whether the goals for would rocket up would remain to be seen but logic dictates there's very likely to be an increase.
The first 25 minutes today (that was as much as I could bear to watch) were like watching the slowest drying paint in the world, dry.


At times we play some of the most boring, uninspiring football in the premership.

Trevor Peers
73 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:09:16
Pretty awful performance, it just proved all the garbage and hatred written about Sigurdsson is so stupid and self destructive, at least he can shoot from outside the box something the rest of our crap midfield can only dream about. Bernard is a home bird, he simply disappears away from home.

Can't remember thier keeper having a shot to save and if Pickford, another player often picked out as a scapegoat, hadn't of made 2 world class saves we would of been well beaten.

Brian Hennessy
75 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:17:16
Poor game but at least we showed some fight second half to get a point.

Baines has to start on Tuesday. Digne was poor again and needs to be rested/dropped.

Great to see Gordon get 45 minutes and hope to see more of him for the rest of the season

Allan Board
76 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:22:34
More seriously though, I think this is what yer gonna get till May. This squad is simply not good enough, Ancelloti will know that. With injuries etc it is impossible to sort the midfield. This is where the issue is. But, we are now difficult to beat and look a more organised team. It is a little safety first, but better than just losing all the time under Silva. I don't believe there is much money available for January but do believe it will be there in the summer. Ancelloti and his staff are working over the squad to see if any are worth keeping, but will play the 5 or 6 that we all moan about until we are safe and I think then younger lads will be given a go in a less pressurised atmosphere for them. For me, 8th would be a good result after an awful first 15 game's. Let's not forget, Ancelloti has the same issues to deal with as Silva had, but he has shown adaptability to work with what he has and is tactically in a different league.
Let's be patient, as long as our erstwhile owners don't try to shaft him over transfers, then he will sort this mess out and give us a team to be proud of. COYB.
Christy Ring
77 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:23:17
Gbamin and Gomes can't come back soon enough, Delph was so poor in the first half, he had a better 2nd half, but he's not a leader in midfield. We badly missed Richarlison, hope he's fit for Tuesday. Merson said Tosun was outstanding today, I can't understand loaning him out, and having Niasse, who is not even at Championship level, on the bench.
Brian Williams
78 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:29:37
Christy I think it's because Tosun wanted games and Niasse (as pointed out earlier in the week by someone) wants his £55k a week, that and he just won't budge!!!
Nicholas Ryan
79 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:31:25
Win your Home games, draw your away games ….. Simples!!
Bill Gall
80 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:32:51
Christy I think Everton are trying to sell both of them and just getting them exposure, Tosun wasn't getting a game at Everton and were hoping that Niasse got a goal..Instead of playing Niasse they should try E.Simms
Joseph Terrence
81 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:33:40
Not sure I agree the view that Gbamin will transform our midfield. I recall him being very slow & sloppy in possession it'd be hard to downgrade from Davies, but I don't think Gbamin is the answer we need.
Anthony Murphy
82 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:40:29
Whether Gomes or Gbamin come back good or not, I think Carlo will want his own midfield general and I expect him to be discussing this with Brands as one of our big summer moves
Robert Tressell
83 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:47:56
Gbamin will help as he'll free up davies to play a little further forward. He's a strong physical presence. With gomes back that will be a good blend. In the meantime we're missing someone of real quality on the ball to make things happen and knit play together. Ideally we get someone in Jan. But if not Its still a point, a good unbeaten run and we stay patient while some dull fare helps us creep up the table.
Steve Carse
84 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:49:30
Joseph (81), wow that's some definitive assessment, based on, what, a couple of hours in a Blue shirt?
Steve Carse
85 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:49:30
Joseph (81), wow that's some definitive assessment, based on, what, a couple of hours in a Blue shirt?
Joseph Terrence
86 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:50:44
Steve, it goes both was. To say we need him back after a few hours of uninspired performances is folly
Graham Mockford
87 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:51:54
It's becoming quite obvious that Moise Kean is a mile from being a Premier League player. Maybe he's struggling to adapt, maybe he's just not that good. But I'm struggling to think of a single moment in a blue shirt where I've thought that he could be a player.
Graham Hammond
88 Posted 18/01/2020 at 18:55:53
Credit Carlo for hooking the abysmal Walcott today after just 56 minutes, we were much better, in my opinion, having Sidibe on the field. Obviously, consistency is an issue with Sidibe at times but the lad can pass a ball relatively well, has good vision to release the ball relatively quickly when the statues in blue around him choose to find space, also is usually a very good crosser of the ball and definitely a player we have to keep going forward. Watching Theo Walcott and his half-arsed trotting and ambling around, his failure to close down, his shitting out of tackles, his needless 'putting the brakes on' to avoid a collision is too much to watch, he made my blood boil again today. Rightfully hooked.
Justin Doone
89 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:00:51
A satisfactory draw from a decent but patchy performance.

Again I thought Holgate played very well and Davies buzzed around making some good important interceptions and passes.

DCL good reaction to guide the ball into the net for his goal and his usual busy self.

The other players in general did OK. Forward players wasteful in possession but defensively we coped fairly well.

Pickford made some crucial saves and it could be argued our best player which says it all.

I would have taken a draw before kick off and so it proved that's what we got.

Alex Kociuba
90 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:03:37
Moise Kean is beginning to look like the worst player I have ever seen in a blue shirt. Utterly abysmal.
Derek Knox
91 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:08:04
Jerome, two funerals in one day, or a double post?

Brian, we definitely need something to get the team moving, it was very stale in the first half, and I detest that passing across and back in front of our own goal!

If West Ham had been sharper we could have been a couple down, second half was much better, although it was still difficult to see where a possible winner was going to come from.

Peter Neilson
92 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:08:40
Blimey what a poor game played out by two average teams. Thought Holgate played OK. What comes first forward movement or midfield creativity? Anyway we have neither at the moment. Snodgrass their best player. I pity the West Ham fans having that as their ground, shows how owners make terrible decisions.
Peter Mills
93 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:09:10
Not a great performance, nor game, but one I suspect we would have lost last season. Our two centre backs did well, but still conceded the most basic of goals.

Michael K, you always manage to spare a few words for a piece of poor play by Dominic Calvert-Lewin, yet when he scores a well-taken poacher’s goal it is merely “nodded in”.

Tony Hill
94 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:11:21
We need more intensity and precision, says Ancelotti. How right he is. The same could have been said by a lot of Everton managers because it goes to the heart of the club's long-standing deficiencies.

I like that word "precision" especially. As opposed to "sentimentality" and "bullshit".

Jon Withey
95 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:20:17
The result I expected so not too disappointed - I had no faith in that midfield and thought we would struggle without Richarlison. I'm glad the manager avoided Schneids and brought in Sidibe and Gordon for Bernard and Walcott - no favouritism. As it is we are in and around Tottenham and Arsenal in the table and we could have been above them really.
Peter Hopkins
96 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:29:38
Poor game but a good point
I don’t think we will see Gomes or Gbamin again this season,let’s not rush them and ruin them. We won’t buy anyone this window but I think we will bring someone in on loan
I think we should play the kids,Gordon settled down as the game wore on,Simms should be on the bench before Niasse and Beni before Schneiderlin
Jerome Shields
97 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:30:15
Dereck#91

One funeral, but I seemily missed another one, reading reports and posts.

Tony Hill
98 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:30:55
As for Kean, we need to wait. My strong instinct is that he'll come good. The calmness of Ancelotti and Brands are perfect for him. Easy does it.
Steve Ferns
99 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:31:49
Newcastle scored a last second goal to beat Chelsea. Still 11th, but shows 4th is not out of sight, despite the car crash of a season.
Tony Hill
100 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:41:48
Quite right, Steve. Why shouldn't we go for fourth?
Dave Abrahams
101 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:44:16
Peter Neilson (92),” what comes first forward movement or midfield creativity?Anyway we have neither at the moment” Good question Peter and a great answer, we have been lacking movement all over the field for the last four managers, hopefully Carlo can provide it, he’ll have to be very, very good to get it out of most these players,I’d imagine most of them need a laxitive to go to the toilet.
John P McFarlane
102 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:47:01
Steve#99 I think fourth even for the most ardent and optimistic Blue is way out of the question, granted not impossible, but very very unlikely. I think we'll end the season somewhere between 8th and 14th - a position that many of us would have accepted a mere six weeks or so ago. What I'm really dissapointed in, is the lack of joined up football this current squad produces on a regular basis.

How can footballers who have played for years and years be so regularly unable to do the basics? If Carlo can get to grips with that particular flaw by the end of this season, he'll have done okay. Asking for European football with this group is asking for trouble. It'd be nice for us as fans but the team would be exposed home and abroad and we need to build belief - not have it destroyed in the early months of the next campaign, providing we get enough points to retain our top flight status of course.

Derek Taylor
103 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:47:06
We have so many ordinary players that even an extraordinary manager can do little with them. I think if he gets us to tenth he will have done well. Because he will have done what Moshiri expects of him.
Peter Neilson
104 Posted 18/01/2020 at 19:58:11
Dave (101) with Carlo as the prescribing doctor and Brands administering the laxative.
David Connor
105 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:00:41
A point is not a bad result. What the game showed us is how dreadful our squad is. Yes, we are missing potential good players but we should have better quality back-up than we have and brought in for huge fees and even bigger wages.

Mr Brands's acquisitions thus far leave a lot to be desired, to say the least. I am beginning to think he is another top bullshitter taking the piss out if the club. The man needs to come up trumps and bloody quick before disgruntled fans like me start to question him publicly. He has been a disaster so far without a doubt.

It's a good job the Premier League is a shit league or we would be in reel trouble. Massive investment needed yet again to get a decent squad together but we need to offload the shite we have. And we all know that ain't gonna be easy.

John Raftery
106 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:02:08
Hi Peter (93) From one viewing of the big screen replay it seemed to me poor positioning by Moise Kean let Diop in for the goal.

I support the point you make in your second paragraph. It is so blatant I find it more amusing than annoying. Despite a lack of decent service and poor support Dominic again showed he can score goals and lead the attack very effectively. I think if Richarlison had been available today we might well have come away with three points.

Raymond Fox
107 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:02:32
We are bang average which has been obvious for some time.
Having said that we fielded a weakened team today.

The result is what I expected and not without merit.
Any points away from home are good points.

John Cook
108 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:03:22
John P 102 Completely agree, can't believe these players can't lay off a simple ball.It was frustrating today the number of times the front 2 were waiting for a simple ball played through to them but Delph,Davies,Digne at all failed to deliver.West Ham were really poor and we should have won easily..still,if you can't win don't get beat. On a personal note,my wife will be coming out of hospital this Monday,it's been a nightmare and still a lot of convalescence when she comes home.Again,thank all blues for there kind words and prayers I truly believe they have helped and I cannot thank you enough.NSNO

Tony Hill
109 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:14:50
Great news, John @108.

The teams above us, aside from the top 3, are not obviously superior, unimpressive though we may be. They all have similar problems. We should not write ourselves off this season.

Niall McIlhone
110 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:16:18
I expected us to win this fixture, but all today's performance has done is to show into sharp focus how limited the squad is, particularly on the offensive. On the plus side, that Pickford save was as good as you might see anywhere in the PL this season, Holgate is showing a lot of maturity and clearly is part of Carlo's plans, and of course, we came out with no more injuries.
An article in the Daily Mail today accounted for the massive expenditure on players since Moyes left the club. It is truly shocking to see how the club has overpaid for what are mostly bang average playing staff, one can only hope that Mr Ancelotti gets his way in re-shaping this dog's dinner of a set up.
Christy Ring
111 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:28:25
At the moment we are totally lacking a midfield enforcer, Davies needs a physical presence beside him, Delph isn’t up to it, and Schneiderlin, should be on the way out. Gbamin needs time and an injury free run, he definitely has the size, and the German league will stand to him, but we need to bring in a defensive midfielder on loan. Holgate is well capable of filling in, but he is growing in confidence, and our quickest centre back.
Carl Manning
112 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:29:03
I think with how he made his subs today, the good thing to come out of the game is the players must be aware now that Carlo hooks players straight off if they continue making the same errors. He looked exasperated.

Nearly 2 weeks now to get into them. And I'd also like to say I think Calvert-Lewin deserves praise for the finish.

Kevin Prytherch
113 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:31:15
Neil 110 - we’ve wasted millions, yet half of the team today cost less than £15 million together (Coleman, Holgate, Bernard, Davies, DCL, Delph).

The other 5 cost around £125 million (Pickford, Mina, Digne, Walcott, Kean).

Although Pickford played well today, and Mina has been ok this season, 4 of the better players recently come from the first list.

Just shows that you don’t have to spend hundreds of millions if you get recruitment right.

Gerry Ring
114 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:33:48
Watched the Palace game today & couldn’t believe the performance of Tosun. Apart from tracking back & tigerishly defending, some of his first touches were sublime. Strong contender for man of the match just behind James McCarthy! (According to the Palace fans!)
Peter Mills
115 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:34:00
Hi John#96, I wouldn’t argue with you about Moise Kean’s poor attempt at defending for West Ham’s goal. It was his ball. However, we don’t really want him to be there defending that situation, do we?

You have raised an issue we discussed at half time. If we were to leave two or three players up the pitch when we are defending a corner or free kick, the opposition would push fewer players forward, leaving our defenders more free to attack the incoming ball. Or is that too simple?

Dave Abrahams
116 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:36:59
John (108), best wishes to you and your wife, just getting into her own home will be a big boost to your wife.
Darren Hind
117 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:38:33
I'll take that draw.

Yeah the game was low on Quality, but we, more than anybody, should know that a lot of games involving Davey Moyes end up like that.

He may have only been there a few days, but I swear I could have named their manager even if I didnt know he was there. West Ham were industrious, aggressive and contested ball all over the pitch. Better teams than us will struggle to play fluent football against them.

Anyway The Center Half who many claimed was nowhere near good enough was MOTM - Again... and the championship standard center forward scored another in the premier league and is on course for between 15 -20 goals.

I'll take the draw and look for improvement next time

John G Davies
118 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:45:51
The two kids were the bonus today Darren. At the risk of repeating myself, Calvert-Lewin will develop into a top centre-forward. The simple run into space for the goal showed the instincts of all the top forwards.

Mason Holgate was MotM by a country mile.

David Thomas
119 Posted 18/01/2020 at 20:59:11
I think we have just got to accept a point today and get to the end of the season with as many points as we can before rebuilding in the summer.

This squad is unfortunately very low in quality especially in midfield and so Ancellotti has got a huge summer in front of him.

The spine of our team is so poor. If we have any chance of competing with the top teams in the league then there must be a massive overhaul of this squad in the next year or so.

Dave Brierley
120 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:05:06
Best wishes to you and your wife John #108.

Make sure she doesn't watch MOTD tonight. Don't want to set her back.

Tony Everan
121 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:12:56
Pickford - world class save helped us get a point;
Digne - still struggling for form, corners need to be better;
Mina - okay;
Holgate - class act, improving, delighted with his progress, MotM.
Coleman - okay;
Bernard - below average today, niggle?
Davies - okay but inconsistent again, but I can see some incremental improvement;
Delph - poor but improved to okay;
Walcott - poor;
Kean - Catch 22, still too raw, needs games but wont dislodge Richarlison for a while;
Calvert-Lewin - average, took his goal very well, improving.

Conclusion: we missed Richarlison, our threat is diminished without him. We need to trade up from Walcott to a more direct goal threat winger, Everton Soares? Delph needs more games and more sharpness but we are missing our first choice centre midfield. Gomes's quality would have have made a difference today and in similar turgid matches. A loan deal for a quality central midfielder may be wise considering Delph's injury record.

Jer Kiernan
122 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:13:56
God awful performance I am sure the long suffering away and home for that matter support cant have helped but notice Carlo jumpin up and down with Ire and roaring his head off at this lot, ,,,I never notice this behaviour from him before.

Good job his hair is already grey is all I will say bar Holgate not one of them deserverd to be paid today, And I don't give a fck about tactics etc, a 5 yard pass is a 5 yard pass and so is controlling the ball ? absolute basics and they couldnt perform it No courage is the issue , ,Shocking

@John Cook 108 , I had noted your family and yourself have had a very difficult Christmas I hope 2020 will bring some improvement in your situation and that of your wife. I am glad you are sharing with TW as it very much puts things into perspective

Best wishes from Dubin

Brent Stephens
123 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:18:26
Not a great game. But with a squad which has its limitations and depleted through injuries, I’ll take the point. Holgate was good, another goal by DCL, Pickford to the rescue on one particular chance. Not yet home so will be interesting to see the call for a red card.

Gordon had a decent debut. Relatively quiet for him but I suspect he was under orders not to try what he does so well for the U23s - just to give it and go, not to try anything that would lose us possession except in the final third at most. Can’t wait to see him display what he does in the U23s.

Bill Gall
124 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:27:03
There should be no one that is not disappointed with today's performance, but we are what we are. And what we are, is a club that over the period of a number of years have been mismanaged by the playing staff and the board. We have gone through numerous mangers who all brought in players to suite their style of play, that eventually we ended up with overpriced players that we cant giveaway never mind sell.

We now have gotten a recognized manager of a winning reputation that has been given the task of getting us into the top 4 over the next 3-4 years. He will understand the problems he faces with the players he has, plus the ones he has on the injury list that he hopes will be available to him soon.

So far with the difficult amount of fixtures over the Xmas and New Year, with some good games,some poor ones and one disgraceful one, he is gradually demonstrating to the players he is not willing to except poor play from them, but without being able to change 5-6 he will have to continue to get us into a respectable position hopefully 6th and start rebuilding during the summer period.
The transfer period is now open but I think prices in January are overinflated and we may only bring in 1 player hopefully a dominant midfielder.

With clubs fighting to avoid relegation and others trying for European Cup spots there is not going to be any easy games in the premier, so I believe we have now got the manager, even if we have other poor performances in the future, to get us into Europe. He will need backing from the Board, and the supporters to achieve this, no matter how many titles and trophies he has won.

Kunal Desai
125 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:32:24
Says it all when I spent more time in the bar then watching this game. Awful where twenty outfield players could not even string two passes together.
Massive rebuilding job at this club.
Paul Birmingham
126 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:35:14
John@108, that’s the best result this year, football regardless, that’s the best result.

Today was a point gained, our goal keeper saved us today, but I expected better from Everton.

Today, the glass is half full etc, Carlo will have seen the real limit of this squad. It’s a massive task, but if any one can turn Everton FC around, Carlo, can.

Reality, bites, but he knows where he is, and what he must do, with board backing, to get EFC, back.

Two years minimum, unless there’s hyper budgets, I’m happy, but today, proved, that EFC, has a long haul, to get consistency, and to challenge the so called top six.

But tonight we are on par with The Gunners, bar GD.

In Carlo, we trust, and a point is a point.

The Bar Codes will be up, but we must beat them. This is a key game in the quest to try and stay in Euro contention.

I reckon it’s possible, but EFC, must pull out some away days, from by gone times at the top teams, as we know them., to genuinely get into Europe.

It has been, done in by gone times, and can be done again.

For me today the midfield didn’t loose, but they didn’t win. Each to their own view.

Loads of positives, and each day, Capo Dei Capi, our Carlo, is galvanising the spirit of Everton Football Club.

Everton FC, Hope Eternal.

All have a Ball this weekend.

Tony Abrahams
127 Posted 18/01/2020 at 21:36:56
Talking about recruitment, then Everton must have had a good scout in Yorkshire to find Calvert-Lewin and Holgate, and I'm glad people are giving them the credit they deserve.

Two kids who didn't cost much money but were our two best players today. Holgate was the pick, but Calvert-Lewin was the only forward player who was providing any real energy, and this was the most disappointing thing about watching Everton today.

I know quality is what we all want to see, but a bit more energy, bravery and desire to really win would have seen us get the points today, and it's a good job we weren't at home during that first half today, because Goodison would have gone toxic within the first 10 minutes.

Why do we keep passing sideways and backwards even when we play two up-front? These players have been over-coached in caution, and Ancellotti has got a very difficult task, just even trying to change this mindset.

Tony Everan
128 Posted 18/01/2020 at 22:09:43
John @108, wishing you all the very best to you and your wife
Danny O'Neill
129 Posted 18/01/2020 at 22:36:47
Firstly John @108, best wishes to your wife in her recovery and to your family.

I'm away for a long weekend in New York & was restricted to sneaky looks on my mobile to check on the score given we were doing the tourist thing. I was getting increasingly suspicious looks directed at me, so can't comment on what I didn't see, but, facing a Moyes team & also for some reason West Ham away, I'd have taken a point had it been offered before kick-off.

Darren Hind: I take the hit on Calvert-Lewin. I was one of those who didn't think he was up to the standard. In honesty, if the bar (longer term) is to be challenging for the holy grail of Champions League & potentially titles, then I still remain sceptical. But, I was / am not critical of the player & continue to hope I get proved wrong again.

On Holgate; liked him as soon as I saw him. I think he has huge potential. We have to remember that different positions mature and peak at different ages. Forwards, generally younger, midfielders in the 25-28 bracket with centre-backs not really hitting their prime until about 28 bordering on 30. This is probably why we didn't see so much of Mason until now. And even now, there is so much more development and potential in him to come.

Steve Carter
130 Posted 18/01/2020 at 22:41:59
Meanwhile Cenk scores on debut for Palace in their draw v Man City, and is lavished with praise by Hodgson...
Lev Vellene
131 Posted 18/01/2020 at 22:45:25
Tony #127, let's not forget that Stones guy also came from the same place as Holgate. Not as much heart for a fight with that one, though. Happy to have Holgate with us!

And, puhleeze, can the rest of you stop lambasting our new ones coming up?!? Unless they get the actual time to practice playing at Premier League level, how can they ever develop? Calvert-Lewin is now good-ish, Holgate as well, and Tom Davies is not too bad at all, some of the time... According to grudgingly admitted amendments.

All have been slated as useless at times because they were not 'George Best' type top quality at their normal, when they started plying their trade at the top level that is the Premier League, which now attracts the very best of internationals, incidentally... George Best and the rest of our old-timey heroes never faced that competition in their youth!

We all know who previously leapt for the money bags while not yet ready, but these guys want to do good for us!

I would actually want Carlo to reserve one spot in eleven for younger players who have not yet played more than 10 games at senior level. At this time, we all know there will be at least 1-2 senior players not deserving the call-up, so that might make them pull their, um "dung" together...

I think Gordon showed good fight today, even if he was not used to the level!

Tom Bowers
132 Posted 18/01/2020 at 22:53:57
It's basically more of the same except they are now getting points. Apart from the City game they have done half decent under Carlo with the emphasis on the ''half''.

Carlo is giving people a chance, even Oumar. However, some players are not showing that they aren't giving anything more than they did in the past and that coupled with the lethargic passing game particularly from the back is a problem that needs to be resolved.

With Gbamin back in training and hopefully Gomes not too far behind one hopes that the midfield strength can be improved especially if no new blood is available from outside the club.

The new lad Gordon looked decent so maybe he will see more time.

Andrew Presly
133 Posted 18/01/2020 at 22:58:53
“So, lads, in summary, just don't give any silly fouls away around the edge of the box, it's the only threat they'll have all day.”

Fabian Delph, the People's Champ, proving that one right. The knobhead.

Jerome Shields
134 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:09:47
Just watched Tosun on MotD, he played very well and so did McCarthy.
Dave Williams
135 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:12:45
To all posters moaning about a lack of midfield quality, we were without Gomes, Gbamin, Iwobi, Richarlison, Sigurdsson and Baningime. With such a threadbare midfield, a scrappy point is not so bad. Get that lot back fully fit and then is the time to moan if play is poor.
Brian Porter
136 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:14:20
Meanwhile, Cenk Tosun scores on his Palace debut.
Lev Vellene
137 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:26:16
Nobody expects the Turkish inquisition! I'm happy for Cenk, though! I understand he had a few more opportunities, so maybe it's a question of playing style? Maybe Crystal Palace try to make scoring chances for their forwards? Stranger things have probably happened outside Everton...
Don Alexander
138 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:29:18
Bob-on Brian (#136) but then he was only up against John Stones so it's nowt to get too excited about is it?
Ian Riley
139 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:37:19
Let's be honest. Our injury list has meant a point at West Ham is a good result. They are fighting for survival. If we can collect points on the road and make Goodison Park a fortress, then happy days.

If we can add three players in the summer and players coming back from injury, top four is not completely out of the question. Keep believing!

Roman Sidey
140 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:40:45
Anyone surpised by Tosun playing well at Palace (so far) surpsises me. He was always a talented footballer but playing up front at Everton has, for a long time, been a no-win situation. His vision is still better than any forwards still at Everton.

I too was one of the hyper-criticals regarding Calvert-Lewin so I will praise him now that he's doing well. I still wouldn't put "top forward" or even "future top forward" next to his name due to a few weaknesses that he should have ironed out by his age, but the bottom 12-14 teams of the Premier League is riddled with adequate strikers who can score 8-12 goals a season.

Going back over the last few years, I was always optimistic about Davies. With every match though I'm becoming less so. Effort will get you so far, and he's got the occasional good pass, but he's just not showing the control or decision-making that a reliable midfielder needs to succeed. I do hope I'm wrong, but at his age, and 100 plus games, he shouldn't be making the same repeated mistakes so often.

Christy Ring
141 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:52:24
I just watched the Man City game, the Palace 2nd goal, even though it was an own goal, the superb tackle and skill by McCarthy to set up Zaha, Ian Wright said he was superb.
Don Alexander
142 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:54:20
My comment on John Stones was a little tongue-in-cheek admittedly but I said ages ago on here, after Stones went to City and Holgate had a game or two as a consequence, that Mason showed more of the bog-standard grit all defenders need and I still stand by my belief that Mason will prove to be the better of the two.
Roger Helm
144 Posted 18/01/2020 at 23:59:24
Pleased for Cenk, I think he would do well with Ancelotti playing two forwards.

I didn't think it was a foul by Delph that led to their goal, he got the ball first. Nice for Calvert-Lewin to score and for Holgate to get the recognition he deserves.

Jerome Shields
145 Posted 18/01/2020 at 00:03:26
Everton just can't seem to get it together as a team, providing for players to give of their best. If they did, it would be just enough of a boost to players to lift their performance.
Dale Rose
146 Posted 19/01/2020 at 00:14:36
Not a good game but a point is a point. As regards the Kean debate, I think he has a lot of promise. However, I also think he lacks fitness. A couple of months and a couple of goals will see him grow as a player.

Roll on summer and we can get rid of the deadwood. Hopefully then get some quality in. I've been very impressed with Ancelloti.

Jim Harrison
147 Posted 19/01/2020 at 00:40:47
Jerome @145

Hardly surprising is it, with all the injuries the line up is different every week

A draw away at West Ham isn't a surprise either. Two months ago we lost a game like this, after going behind. Home or away.
But without either of our highest scorers from last season on the pitch, and missing most of our midfield there are not many goals in our available players. Bernard is hardly prolific in either scoring or assists, Walcott? We all know he isn't going to be a major threat.
Win home, draw away.

Ed Prytherch
148 Posted 19/01/2020 at 00:43:33
Don @143, Mason Holgate just seems to be an intelligent young man and no matter how good he becomes he will always be learning. I don't have that impression of John Stones who probably peaked a year or two ago.

Christy Ring, I agree that we could use a midfield enforcer and we loaned ours out – Mo Besic.

Christy Ring
149 Posted 19/01/2020 at 00:47:39
Ed @148, In my opinion, McCarthy, he was superb against Man City today.
Mike Gaynes
150 Posted 19/01/2020 at 01:00:09
John #108, delighted you have your wife home. Mazel tov.
Mike Gaynes
151 Posted 19/01/2020 at 01:05:48
Ed #148, Besic?? A yellow card machine who can't pass. He's played 153 Premier League minutes for Sheffield this year, the equivalent of less than two games. Heck, less than the average movie.
Ben Howard
152 Posted 19/01/2020 at 01:12:41
Intensity and precision...

I have only seen Everton able to do one without the other - they seem mutually exclusive. This may be the difference between average Premier League players and good ones.

And our squad seems rather heavily weighted on the average, unfortunately...

Jim Harrison
153 Posted 19/01/2020 at 01:20:20
Christy @148,

This is probably the longest period in 5 years that he has been fit. Unfortunately we could use him now but I think, from a realistic standpoint, it was the right idea to sell him. We have been hugely unlucky with injuries, but he would have been a squad player at most and he wants first-team football. Good to see he is getting that.

Derek Thomas
154 Posted 19/01/2020 at 01:32:21
Besic's best contribution to the cause was going off vs Chelsea, letting Naismith on to score a hat-trick.
Ivan Varghese
155 Posted 19/01/2020 at 02:14:49
It's nice to watch a team adapt to the new manager. 4-4-2 with two pivots. It would take sometime before understanding is reached and players pass quicker with instinct.

This match could have been won. He should have kept Walcott on longer. Loosing balls around midfield almost caused heart attacks.

I hope fans don't abandon the manager and team. How do you kill a racehorse? – break its leg... and the fans would do it themselves.

Bill Watson
156 Posted 19/01/2020 at 03:05:33
A game strewn with mistakes but a point is a point and one we probably wouldn't have got under the previous regime.

Most of West Ham's first half chances came from us giving up possession in midfield and if we sign just one player in this window it must be a midfield enforcer. Failing that, I'd move Holgate there.

Bernard continues to be an enigma; great one game and hopeless the next! Stand out player was Holgate but Kean continues to disappoint.

Just a word on the London Stadium. I think it's the most soulless stadium I've ever been in. Even in row 8, behind the goal, the pitch seemed miles away and I reckon the first 15 rows would be soaked in the rain.

Simon Harrison
157 Posted 19/01/2020 at 03:06:21
A frustrating game in truth but, as many have said, with the amount of injuries that we're carrying just now, grab a point and get out of Dodge! Job done.

I'm (very) pleased that Pickford, Holgate, Gordon and Calvert-Lewin showed up today. Delph grew as the game went on, as did Yerry Mina. Digne looks like he is still labouring with something? Maybe Baines for the Newcastle game?

I thought Gordon was the pick of our midfield players in the second half!

I hope Richarlison is fit for next Tuesday, as we look toothless without him; also, his work rate allows more time and space for Bernard, who had the game pass him by today. Even Iwobi, whom I personally don't rate coming back, will help with the balance, ie, someone who can play right midfield. Like others too, I don't see Gbamin playing again till much later in the season, and Gomes will have to be a case of 'slowly, slowly creepy monkey'.

Carletto made sensible substitutions today, and if anybody thinks that it is just big Dunc who has passion, I hope you witnessed Carletto's attempts at getting the lads geed up? I thought he was going to send Dunc on a couple of times to 'talk to' a couple of players!

Anyhoo, a point away is better than none, especially with so many missing. I'd have liked to have seen Gibson tried today, but not to be.

@John Cook, great news re your wife, and I hope she can indeed return home soon. And when she does, with your help, she will recover and recuperate better there than at any hospital. Good wishes.

Simon Harrison
158 Posted 19/01/2020 at 03:09:53
Re Tosun at Crystal Palace, I hope the lad has a great end to the season, and we manage to sell him for something near the £21M we paid for him.

Revenue coming in and wages of the books. Just need to get Oumar 'Bambi' Niasse off the books now too, especially at £55k pw.

John Boon
159 Posted 19/01/2020 at 04:06:10
As expected, there are so many different points of view regarding the game. Actually there is so little to say about an uninspiring dreary game and performance from both teams.

The only reason I am actually posting is to indicate that I am still delighted that we signed up Ancelotti. I just feel confident that he will get the best out of our younger players and also get the experienced players to show what they "should" be doing. Tremendously impresed by Holgate who clearly demonstrates that wise loans will prove to be to Everton"s benefit. Calvert-Lewin is also showing just what he can do. However, he can still improve.

I would still like to continue to give more chances to the likes of Gordon. I still see something in Kean: despite the fact that he really hasn't done anything remotely special, there is just something there.

Kieran Kinsella
160 Posted 19/01/2020 at 04:52:24
Simon

I thought Gordon was the pick of the m f’ing players too. Lol.

John Pierce
161 Posted 19/01/2020 at 04:53:10
Insipid, lifeless or mind-numbing. Pick one or all three. Two truly dreadful outfits, struggling to be mediocre.

I have to say I was livid with those players. The amount of poor passing under little duress was astounding.

That XI executed next to nothing. The simple skill of passing it 10 yards, with the correct foot, right weight and direction, so a teammate doesn't need to adjust, was absent.

We wonder why the team has no tempo or urgency. When that basic skill cannot be executed, we stall, turn back and begin again. Only Holgate came close to passing well.

Some players just cannot stay in that team on that basis. Coleman, reliant on his instinct and athleticism, is exposed for the poor technician he is now his physicality is waning.

Walcott is the very definition of instinct: if the ball is not quick and early, he is devoid of any quality.

Pickford too was awful with his feet, finding touch more regularly than Jonny Wilkinson. This needs attention because we just cough it straight back to the opposition.

Sadly, what annoyed me most is the longer ball was the answer, it gave us a foothold and allowed the team to squeeze up. We neglected it until we fell behind.

Ah well. That game will be very quickly erased from memory.

Ernie Baywood
162 Posted 19/01/2020 at 05:39:30
I know he's young... but have we seen anything from Kean that would warrant the use of the word "promise"?

From what I can see he has no movement, anticipates nothing, attitude to things going wrong in the game is dreadful, passing is poor, decision making awful, and he's got a complete lack of awareness when the game breaks down. He just goes missing.

I've seen literally nothing to indicate any promise. Is he fast at least? He doesn't really look it.

I'm sure he can't be as bad as we've seen but I wonder if we've been conned here. Even taking into account settling into a new country, new club... you'd still expect to see a few basics?

After the game I went and looked at his Juventus highlights. There isn't anything there of real note. Has he ever done anything to indicate he's a great talent? Surely just a little bit of it would be on camera?

For all the stick Oumar is getting on here, he had so much more impact than Kean.

Jim Harrison
163 Posted 19/01/2020 at 06:04:29
Can you imagine how Carlo felt, looking at the bench and thinking he needed to bring on a different forward and seeing Niasse?

He's had Ronaldo, Shevchenko, the polish german guy I won't even try to spell, to name but a few. But yesterday he had Niasse to call on.

Phil Sammon
164 Posted 19/01/2020 at 06:07:18
Ernie 162,

You are being very harsh on the young man... but I cannot disagree.

His Juve highlights show him as some ‘fox in the box' type. Granted, he hasn't had too many opportunities to score goals for us but he hasn't even got close to being in the right positions.

His technical ability is great, if you're Oumar Niasse, who no longer holds the title of ‘Least Gifted' player at the club. To think Lukaku got grief for his first touch. The very worst of it is he actually seems unfit. That is inexcusable.

He's a young lad and he will obviously be given time but, the more I see him play, the less optimistic I am.

That said, I'll cheer him on and root for him while he's in an Everton shirt. I sincerely hope he can turn things around and be a good player for us. Ancelotti clearly has some faith in him.

Derek Knox
165 Posted 19/01/2020 at 06:58:15
If that performance doesn't signal to the Board that we desperately need a couple of additions before the transfer window closes, I don't know what will.

I know we have a few missing through injury but, even allowing for that, there is nobody in midfield that can direct the game, and the amount of wasted short passes is verging on ridiculous.

I like Tom Davies but several times today he won the ball and passed it forward without looking, usually back to the Hammers. It wasn't as if it was a high tempo game, with little time to think either.

I don't know who from our Board were at the game today but, if they can't see the glaring deficiency, then God Help Us!

Darren Hind
166 Posted 19/01/2020 at 07:22:00
Absolutely hilarious to see perennial Finch Farm basher, Don Alexander, doing another volte face and claiming he always knew Holgate was a player. So soon after doing the same thing with Calvert-Lewin. All we need now is for the resident "expert" to claim he has been banging the Tom Davies drum for some time and he will have his hattrick.

There are several people who post regularly, hammering everything about Finch Farm, but we got Calvert-Lewin and Holgate in their teens and we have had Gordon and Davies from School. That's four players who cost a combined total of £2.5M who have all been developed right here.

The same people have battered away at Ferguson and Unsworth, both of whom stepped in to save us after foreign managers earning a fortune had sent us into free fall towards oblivion.

Maybe these people will now start to look at the £700M we have spent on players and managers who have only ever managed to get us into deep shit and they will get down on their knees and thank the lord for Finch Farm, which costs the club a pittance to run.

Judging by the things Ancelotti has said (and done), he clearly sees the benefits of our home grown talent. He will have at least four players involved next week and he will definitely have the "living stealer" at his right hand.

Tony Abrahams
167 Posted 19/01/2020 at 08:03:44
That was my point about having a good scout in Yorkshire, Darren, albeit with a hint of sarcasm!

This is a very big job Ancellotti has taken on, because I’ve never seen a team want to play the ball backwards, as much as this Everton team, and the amount of times Pickford could have threw the ball to one of our midfielders, for them to turn and go forward was staggering, especially when he waits another 15 seconds, and then gives it to Mina, to give it to Holgate, and so on, before it comes back to him anyway so he can launch it?

I don’t care how good a manager Carlo is, because if players can’t or won’t think for themselves, they are never going to improve.

Derek Knox
168 Posted 19/01/2020 at 08:24:37
Darren @ 166, well said young man(?) it is almost unbelievable sometimes the posts we read on here. Okay we all get frustrated with many issues, including tactics, players, Management etc, but I think we are at long last going in some sort of right direction.

The damage that Koeman et al have caused cannot be rectified overnight, but I do believe we have the right team in place at the helm. Yes there are a few 'bad apples in the barrel' but because of contractual issues, none of which has been initiated by those in charge now (apart from a certain Board Member) and can't be changed immediately, but we will get there in the end.

Ernie Baywood
169 Posted 19/01/2020 at 08:39:38
Phil 164 - Absolutely. I'll hope he comes good. If he proves me wrong then that's good for Everton.

Honestly, though, I just can't see it.

Sam Hoare
170 Posted 19/01/2020 at 08:40:53
I think a point away in the PL is always decent.

Our points return since Silva left is very decent indeed. Especially considering some (like ever season!) had us marked down for certain relegation.

Calvert-Lewin picking up goals regularly now and teaching the many on here that repeatedly labeled him a Championship player at best that patience can be a virtue. A big dose of it may be required for Kean.

We still need a central midfield and I expect that to be addressed before the win down shuts.

Am feeling optimistic once more and given how poor the other teams through 4th-10th I think we still have a 50/50 shot at Europe if injuries can be a bit kinder.

Martin Berry
171 Posted 19/01/2020 at 08:41:39
Everton managed to get a draw due to the young spine of Pickford Holgate Davies and DCL.
So often these players have come in for criticism but now with patience ( which many posters don't seem to have !) they are beginning to get noticed and appreciated.
This has been evident with MOTD recently praising DCL and last night it was the turn of Mason Holgate.
We must remember that these young men have a lot of growing to do and are learning their trade in the most competitive and intense league in the world.
Personally I am so pleased to have this group and I am sure its only a matter of time before Carlo speaks likewise.
Well done lads and keep at it.
Christopher Timmins
172 Posted 19/01/2020 at 08:55:33
Another moderate performance to go with those earlier in the month, one horrific one included, but a point gained. There are a lot of players currently on the good ship who won't be there in two years time when the manager has had an opportunity to bring in his own players, still no panic and no panic buys needed between now and the end of the month.
John Reynolds
173 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:00:38
An away point in London and 10 from 15 since Ancelotti’s arrival with an injury-ravaged side. Not much to complain about really. Thought current boo-boy Delph had a very tidy second half with some incisive passes. Moise Kean is becoming a serious concern though. Can’t see anything to suggest he’s a player yet, never mind a £30m+ one.
Tony Everan
175 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:02:03
Ernie 162, Moise Kean

Brave post, but well done for saying things as they are. There's not much to disagree with.

I wouldn't give up on the kid just yet though, even though he has a lot to learn about the game over here. The game passed him by yesterday, I think he will be better suited to being used for home games, for now, where we are more on the front foot.

It's catch 22 for him, he needs matches but is not yet good enough to start.

DC-L or Richarlison will not be sacrificed for his inclusion for the forseeable future. The inevitable upgrade to Walcott with the likes of Everton Saores will be further competition for him to start. I want the lad to do well, a lot of us can see a player in there somewhere, but I am concerned for his development.

Not starting games at this stage of his career will be damaging, I can see the kid going on loan to a decent Italian club with a guarantee of playing time. He will return a better player.

Joe McMahon
176 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:09:16
To anyone doubting Moise Kean, I'm not saying he's going to be Dennis Bergkamp, but it also took him many weeks to start finding his feet at Arsenal. He is 19 and living in a foreign country, let's show some patience.
Trevor Peers
177 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:12:36
Once Anceoletti has been allowed to spend some cash I can't see Davies and DCL being part of the spine of his team that's just ridiculous. Handy squad players maybe, but I expect Anceoletti to add quality in these positions when funds are available.

Pickford is clearly good enough and Holgate has surpassed all expectations at center back and it wouldn't be a surprise to see him in the England set up for the Euros.

Robert Tressell
178 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:15:24
The quality / drive shown by our young spine leads me to 2 thoughts:

1. How good could they look alongside genuine class players. This suggests trying to sign some ready made 25 / 26 / 27 year olds who are Champions league class. Expensive. Hit and miss. Not many such players would join us right now.

2. Shouldn't we therefore focus on bringing in more like them. This is the 18 to 22 year old group. Up and coming. Less expensive. More motivated. Would come.

Option 2 is clearly the way to go. It does, however, probably mean putting up with walcott, schneiderlin, sigurdsson etc while their bumper contracts run down. Although the idea drains the life out if me it isn't so terrible as all offer something. There might be some exceptions to this strategy now and again (obviously barry was good for us and milner is good for them). In the meantime I think kean, iwobi, gordon and maybe gibson will add to our good young spine - and we should be focussed on providing them with a route to the first team which holgate, davies and DCL (championship at best) only got because of injuries.

Paul Tran
179 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:22:23
Darren #166 & Tony #167 make some good points. The point about Holgate, DCL & Davies is not just their ability, but their sheer strength of character, starting their first-team careers with little help or guidance from 'senior' players, being given brief opportunities and then dropped by a succession of managers.

There's a part of me that thinks that Silva over-coached the players to the point of confusion. Several of them appear to still have that habit of pondering on the ball, compounded by the lack of purposeful movement from the midfield.

It doesn't matter how much you get paid, changing habits takes time. That's Carlo's biggest task with these players.

Robert Tressell
180 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:23:24
Trevor I know what you mean but DCL has 8 in 20 in the prem. That is an excellent record. Its v hard to bring someone in to match that - let alone better it. He also does a good team job. We also have Richarlison and kean already - the latter being an excellent prospect. Diego Forlan couldn't score in an excellent man utd side but matured into an absolutely outstanding striker. Kean is 19 has lots of potential - had to put up with awful abuse in Italy - and just needs some support and patience.
Robert Tressell
181 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:27:18
Ps. DCL is 10th in the list of u-23 scorers in the top european leagues this season
David Thomas
182 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:41:09
Genuine question if Everton started next season with Holgate, Davies and DCL I’m the spine of our team regularly would you expect us to be competing at the higher end of the table ie pushing for a place in the top 6 etc?
Mike Benjamin
183 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:47:29
At leat now we have a manager who doesn’t bullshit when describing a performance. On the game yesterday not good enough and needs improvement. Silva, Koeman, Allardyce and Martinez would have seen it as a good point with many good moments in the game. The subs this week were spot on.
Brian Williams
184 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:52:16
Tony#167.
Exactly right mate!
Paul Tran
185 Posted 19/01/2020 at 09:53:02
David, my answer would be yes - if we buy a physically strong centre mid and Carlo turns the team into three units that work together effectively.
Conor McCourt
186 Posted 19/01/2020 at 10:42:22
This is a crazy thread that really frustrates me. We have just witnessed a really poor performance by us with a few key players missing against another poor team who were without their main men also, yet the theme of the discussion is whether four of our young players are good enough.

David 182- I know what you are trying to ask but that question makes me so annoyed. Holgate is clearly our best defender at the club and I am convinced he will easily become our best PL centre half as he is the most complete one in terms of defending and playing and has so much more scope to improve physically.

Tom has been our best midfielder this season which I know doesn't say a lot but he started as fifth choice and has forced his way into the team. DCL has become our main man in terms of what was his biggest weakness so offers great hope for continued improvement.

Why have we to expect that these guys have to be superstars? There are players like Darren Fletcher and Jordan Henderson who weren't any better at the same age and played key roles in top teams because they improved around better players.

We have so much shit at this club who have stunk the place out year on year yet these super lads who always give their best come in for constant stick. We have 20 players or so to worry about before these guys.

Even young Moise now is becoming the new whipping boy. When Silva wasn't playing him he was getting the grief and now that Silva was proved right in that he's not up to the pace of the PL people are now turning on the player.

Again this is a 19yr old who has unquestionable ability. He is quick, athletic, strong and has an eye for goal. He is coming to a foreign league where everything is too fast for him and he looks so lost. We all wanted better but if you look at how other players struggle with even more experience then it shouldn't be a big surprise that he's not finding his feet. I heard an Arsenal fan tell me that Pepe was the biggest waste of money ever on a PL player yet in the last month he is starting to show what a quality player he is going to be.

Derek Taylor
187 Posted 19/01/2020 at 10:51:54
Hear, Hear, Conor !
Robert Tressell
188 Posted 19/01/2020 at 10:54:57
David at 182. My answer is no. But because of the weakness of those other than DCL, Tom and Mason. The older, big money acquisitions are the problem - not the young lads.
Christy Ring
189 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:04:05
Can't understand the criticism, if we had more players with the same attitude and drive, as Calvert-Lewin, Davies and Holgate, we'd be a hell of a lot higher up the table.
Trevor Peers
190 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:13:55
David @ 182.
Our chances of competing with the top six depend entirely on our transfer activity between the January and summer windows, both sales and buys are crucial.
Obviously the squad as it stands is only ever likely to finish outside the top six, the spine of the team has yet to be formed to Ancelotti's satisfaction.
Brian Harrison
191 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:24:29
Well the positives are that all our young players are showing the senior players how it should be done. I said a couple of weeks back that Holgate was the best defender at the club, and fully expect him to be included in the next England squad. We have had Mings and Ake included in recent squads and for me Holgate is better than both of these. DCL another who cant be far away from at least being called up to the England squad, the lad has improved leaps and bounds this season. Pickford is already Englands first choice keeper, and Tom Davies has had some commanding games for England under 23s.

So a lot to be positive about, sometimes the talent is right under your nose if you look hard enough, and Ancelotti indicated a couple of weeks back that he wants to see more of our Under 23 squad involved in the first team squad. Anthony Gordon was also given another run out yesterday, just proving that Ancelotti was true to his word. Our problem is how we get shut of many of our under performing senior players. Most are on wages that only clubs who qualify for the Champions league can afford and sadly none of these over paid players would get near a Champions league team. So getting them out of the club is going to be Brands hardest jobs. I see it was reported the other day that Niasse had turned down 2 possible moves to 2 Championship clubs, lets not forget the man who bought him Martinez didnt fancy him having watched him in training. I think we have at least 7/8 players who need moving on to allow Ancelotti and Brands to bring in the quality players we need.

David Pearl
192 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:24:47
I thought our midfield was awful. Both kept giving the ball away and couldn’t stop and control play. Our overall shape seemed off and we took an age to go forwards.

We all know our current injuries however looking on to Tuesday, if Richarlison isn’t fit I’d play Gordon right and Walcott with DCL up front.

Moise Kean. Wow. I saw him try to control a pass and have to chase back 40 yards as he tried to keep possession. Yes, give him time but he looks a long way off. He can’t be enjoying himself, he can’t find space.

It was like watching a kids game yesterday all the mistakes.

Steve Brown
193 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:28:34
Conor @ 186, I agree with you. Criticising Holgate, Davies, DCL and Kean while our discredited and over-paid senior players get barely a mention has been a trend on TW for at least two or three seasons. These youngsters have been the only bright spot in a poor season.

Fortunately, Brands and Ancelotti know better so all four will be regular fixtures in our first team squad next season. Unlike Sigurddson, Schneiderlin, Niasse, Martina and Walcott who will be sold provided we can persuade anyone to buy or loan them.

Brian Williams
194 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:32:13
A thing I only noticed after watching the highlights on MOTD this morning, and something I was made up to see with regard to DCL's development, was him give Walcott a right earful for a ball he crossed across the six yard box which DCL hit wide.
Dom was obviously giving him down the banks for playing the ball at knee height rather than along the deck for him to flick or deflect in.
This to me shows Dom's now seeing himself as the equal (or more) to senior international players in the team and isn't afraid to let them know what he wants and what they should have done.
It's good to see in a striker, good to see in OUR striker.
Gio Mero
195 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:39:04
Just a quick thought. I have always supported DCL against the tide of many on here and I received quite a bit of stick for showing skepticism at the time of Keane's arrival though I physically strain myself everytime he gets near the ball hoping he can prove himself BUT
the pair of them look like complete strangers even allowing for the very little game-time spent together (the best pairs practice incessantly during the week).
By the look of it as much as DCL contribution has so far
been remarkable I don't think he's ever learned to play with an attacking partner, all his movements are wrong and I despair for Moise in this setting
Eddie Dunn
196 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:45:27
I hope that the only reason for Niasse to get a few minutes is the hope that it reminds suitors that he is still alive. Never mind the good attitude etc, he is an utterly dreadful player.
Moise Kean is a lad out of his depth. One day he will be a decent striker but he needs a bit of luck, a goal under his belt, and then he will relax a little and make the right runs and won't misscontrol passes coming into him.
As for the game yesterday, it was dire. Two ordinary teams grinding out a point with a cluster of has-beens, journeymen and young hopefulls.
Miles off the top six.
Everyone has injuries, and the likes of Wolves have kept going despite already playing 39 games this season.
It is shocking just how poor some of those on show are at basic passing.
It was of course a point away from home, and we went behind but recovered. Pickford saved our bacon with a couple of fine saves.
Did anyone else wtch Mina hanging on to Diop's arm for an eternity but still couldn't stop him stretching out his leg to score. It was as blatent a pen as you could ever see.
Mina is doing this regularly. He makes make shudder every time he gets the ball. He makes continual wrong decisions giving hospital passes back to Pickford resulting in sliced clearances or corners.
I would have thought that a seasoned international would have grown out of such idiotic habits.
Finally, it was good to see young Gordon on and Gibson on the bench.
Michael Williams
197 Posted 19/01/2020 at 11:55:44
The Kean bashing has to stop. Yes, I saw the play where he could not control a fast pass to his feet and had to chase the ball. This guy is 19 and is in his first season in the best league in the world - so everyone says.

Keen has to adjust to the speed and physicality of the league, playing with new team mates, a new manager and settle in to a new country and culture. He also has to mature as a person and a player. He needs time and minutes - lots.

Conor McCourt
198 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:02:33
Steve 193- The reason why I find it so infuriating is that these 3 kids have saved our season. Imo we should be more grateful to them than any of our managers.

Under Silva, Davies and Holgate gave him a month or two stay of execution due to their performances even though he only initially played them due to absolute necessity.

Both Ferguson and Ancelotti have felt the love of our fan base in large thanks to the performances of DCL and Holgate. Big Dunc certainly deserves credit for invigorating the former but if both players had been injured for the last month we would be in deep trouble.

Take Carlos reign for example the only top performance was the Newcatle game and even then those two players were vital to the win. In all other games we have been very mediocre but their individual performances were the difference in amassing the points we have.

It's strange why we are even debating their value.

David Pearl
199 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:22:57
Holgate is really coming on this season and will keep improving.

Now that Tosun has gone, plus hopefully a couple more off the books so we can get a one or two quality players in. Incredible to see we are 10 points off 4th spot. If we have the ambition we have to go for it now, not next season. Pity we wasted so much in the summer. Oh and last summer. And the summer before.

Phil Lewis
200 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:23:57
Ernie#162
I agree with your comments entirely. I have made a point of watching Kean closely in games so far. I won't mince my words. The lad does not have a football brain. His positional awareness is appalling, which makes him easy to mark and an impossible target to pass to.
He may well have made goalscoring headlines as a youngster in Italy. Perhaps we don't play to his strengths (whatever they are). But if his ability was unquestionable, (Connor #186) then why on earth would a massive Italian giant such as Juventus even consider releasing this 19 year old 'jewel' for such a meagre fee? They chose to to cash in. We were conned. The kid is a dud. An Italian flash in the pan.
Steve Carse
201 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:26:01
Brian (194), Walcott's pass in that move wasn't the only one that could be criticised. Delph's pass to Walcott was the wrong choice as Keen had for once put himself into open space on the left and inside the penalty area. Keen showed his frustration by throwing his arms up in the air. Couldn't blame him.
Derek Knox
202 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:40:44
Tosun getting rave reviews from Palace fans, although it's early days, I am made up for the lad, and hope it may materialise into something permanent.

The lad can score but just doesn't fit into our system somehow, let's hope he continues in that frame, so we can start to recruit and build Carlo's team.

Bit pissed off with Niasse refusing to go to either Leeds or Forest who were both willing to take him, it may come back to bite him on the arse.

David Thomas
203 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:46:24
I’m not slagging the young players off they are giving it their best go and of course more senior pros are performing very poorly who cost a lot of money and it would have been much easier for some of these younger players to have been introduced into a stable team gradually.

However, it can’t get away from the fact that in my opinion if some of these young lads are starting 30 odd league games for us next season then no one can be surprised if we are not competing for the top 6, same goes for a lot of the senior players.

Before the cup game at Anfield people were saying we are only a couple of players short and then reality hit us hard.

This club needs a massive overhaul young and old players otherwise next season will once again lead to us having nothing of substance to play for after the middle of January.

Robert Tressell
204 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:46:58
Kean will look better with Iwobi in the side. Iwobi always looks for the quick forward through ball and Kean always starts his run for that type of ball. He is an intelligent runner - the trouble is our current lack of an intelligent passer.
Bob Parrington
205 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:47:16
Brian @ 191, Agreed ref the younger players. I felt that Gordon looked as much at home at this level as any other player in the team and perhaps more than some.
Holgate excelled again. Davies looked a little off IMO.

Kean needs a run of games and needs to learn how to work with DCL.

Bernard didn't seem to be quite with it and gave the ball away far too often but he wasn't the only one.

Why Walcott lifted the ball in a final pass situation rather than play it along the deck baffles me!

Pickford's distribution was crap most of the time but occasionally was very good.

Overall I thought that Sidibe and Delph added some calmness to the side.

West Ham really played the high line pressure well and Moyes planned this well, knowing our players have been shit at this all season. Too much crap tippy happy for me. Players either understand this style and are composed or they or crap at it like our guys.

In all, a decent result to get a point but against an equally poor side.

Ryan Holroyd
206 Posted 19/01/2020 at 12:50:31
Kean is a dud after 20 games. God I hate Everton fans. Probably the same fans slagging calvert-lewin when he was 19.
Steve Brown
207 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:00:24
Kean scored 7 league goals in his 16 Serie A games and has 3 international caps - all at the age of 19 years old. Ancelotti wanted to sign him for Napoli and Mancini as Italy manager has advised him to move so he gets game time and is ready for the Euros. Juventus fans were also unhappy that he was sold. Sure he has a lot to learn but let's stop leaping to judgement so early.
Phil Lewis
208 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:01:23
Robert#204
You make an interesting point. The goals I've seen Kean score in Italy on YouTube seem to come from the scenarios you've suggested. I hope you are right and my malignment of the boy is premature. When we really were a team in the 80's after signing Linacre, we had to adopt a whole new approach to suit his style of play. Of course, Moise Kean does not have the service at his disposal that Linacre received, but if what you suggest eventually proves to be correct, then I will happily eat my words.
In my opinion, Gary Linacre was the finest goalscorer I've witnessed in a blue shirt. If Kean proves to be half as good, he will do for me.
Phil Lewis
209 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:03:58
Ryan#206
For your information, I have continually supported DCL from the first time I saw him play. Even when all around me at Goodison were screaming for his blood!
Jim Burns
210 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:16:53
John @ 102 - nailed it. Whether this was a second string selection or not - the lack of basics at times is mind blowing. Was at the game yesterday and our inability to retain possession and complete simple passes was so poor. The MOTD ‘ highlights’ sanitised a terrible performance against a struggling team - but at least they gave due recognition to Mason - one of the very few highlights of the game.
Robert Tressell
211 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:22:14
Phil - if we get Buendia in summer then we have a player who will deliver both the through ball and the long accurate ball over the top. He'd be ideal for Kean. DCL is better at fighting out a chance from crap service - but kean will really shine when there's genuine quality in the side.
Jim Burns
212 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:22:25
Ryan - what all of us?
Brent Stephens
213 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:26:46
Ryan #206 "Kean is a dud after 20 games. God I hate Everton fans. Probably the same fans slagging calvert-lewin when he was 19".

And it's not even 20 games of 90 minutes he's played - his game minutes have been very limited. DCL had a poor goal return last season, couldn't hit the target, but he's now popping them in. Kean couldn't anticipate the movement of our other players or the movement of the ball yesterday or in previous games but hopefully that will come.

Jamie Crowley
214 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:33:09
Writing off a 19 year old, who cost 35 million, whom our own manager (the one with three CL trophies in his cabinet) tried to sign, based upon a performance where just about every other player around him played shit?

That's lunacy.

So quick to negatively judge. How'd that work out with DCL? I'd bet serious money that when Rooney came through the ranks, there were people on this very site saying he wasn't good enough.

Absolute lunacy.

Talk to me when he's 24 with hundreds of games under his belt.

Stephen Driscoll
215 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:46:30
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Bill Watson
216 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:46:35
Just an observation at the game, yesterday.

West Ham have a huge club shop on the stadium concourse and it was heaving. They were even shifting 50/50 scarves!!

In comparison ours looks like a corner shop and we're obviously missing out on the opportunity to, as someone across the park once infamously said, 'sweat the asset'.

Hopefully, our abysmal retail offer will be addressed at B-MD.

Stephen Driscoll
217 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:48:25
Gary, Michael Keane isn't that bad. Remember Claus Thomsen.
Conor McCourt
218 Posted 19/01/2020 at 13:54:15
Phil 200- my unquestionable ability comment which you can't agree with comes from his record at all under age levels for his country as well as his magnificent debut season for Juve. Don't forget he's Italys Second youngest goalscorer of all time.

I watched him at U21 level as Ireland are in the same group and he looks completely different gravy. At 19 he has achieved more than the likes of Henry and Kane and the former struggled intially in the PL also. it's too early to say whether he will be the next Eto or Balotelli yet.

Juve wanted to offer him a contract until Sarri came and he wouldn't have suited the technical style of the new manager. He had also problems with the fan base (racism) and with the dressing room senior figures so this may also have been a factor.

We have signed a player of great potential for the future so let's give him a little time to settle.

Winston Williamson
219 Posted 19/01/2020 at 14:07:08
I don’t think top 6 is a reasonable ask from Carlo this season. It’s just not realistic with the senior players we have, and with how they have consistently played since we’ve signed them.

DCL, Richarlison, holgate, Davies, Gordon, Kean, Mina, Digne, Kenny, Gomes, Gbamin (hopefully), Iwobi, Bernard and Gibson are the only players I’d consider keeping. The rest are sellable in my opinion.

The rest have done nothing, when the chips are down, to warrant ever playing for us again...

This is going to take just as long to solve as it has taken to fuck up, possibly longer. Unless, and it’s a big unless, we unveil four or five signings in the summer that really change our direction. This of course, is dependent on finding another mug to take our shite players...

Dave Speed
220 Posted 19/01/2020 at 14:27:41
I think the priority is to limp to safety. We are missing our first choice midfield, which makes the attacker's jobs harder, and both points contrive to put our defence under unnecessary pressure due to losing the ball all the time. We know that Ancellotti won't be keeping too many of these players in the long term, so I'll just be thankful for each point we get. I doubt we will bring in much class during this window. We will have to wait until the summer.
Darren Hind
221 Posted 19/01/2020 at 14:38:59
I worry about Keans his first touch and I upset a few on here by saying so after he had played 2-3 games. Its the first thing I look for in a player and That worry remains the ball just keeps bouncing off him.
However ! He's hardly been missing a hat full of chances. Until he gets to see the whites of a goalies eyes, nobody can dismiss him as a striker. A footballers first touch can desert him when he is low on confidence or trying a little too hard and forcing the issue. I've seen it happen loads of times. so I wont be writing off just yet.

My worry is he will turn out to be a bit of a Diego Forlan.

Forlan was one of a few player I can think of who's style simply didnt suit the English premiership League. Like Kean, he came with a reputation, but it didnt happen for him. at times he looked like he had never played the game.. Within weeks of leaving these shores he was banging them in left right and center - Often in European games against the very English teams he'd struggled so badly to make an impression against.

Darren Hind
222 Posted 19/01/2020 at 14:46:16
Paul T

I coudnt agree more about Silva trying to Over-coach.

One really noticeable difference between him and Ancelotti. is the time it took to make a substitution.
Silva would often spend ten minutes filling substitutes heads with so much stuff they couldnt possibly have taken it all in.
Ancelotti gives them the nod has a very brief word and throws them on as soon as the ball is out of play.

Regarding the question of whether we can get top six next season with players like Davies, Holgate and DCL ? why wait until NEXT season. ? Despite Silvas best efforts we are only six points off season.

Colin Glassar
223 Posted 19/01/2020 at 14:53:21
Kean reminds me of Adama Traore last season for Wolves. He looked like a brainless, muscle bound, speed merchant who couldn’t hit a barn door from 10 yards. Now look at Traore after one season. Don’t judge players so quickly.
Martin Mason
224 Posted 19/01/2020 at 15:07:34
We are overwhelmed by injury and have a very weak squad and new manager and yet we are on a fantastic run of league form. I see positive things.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

225 Posted 19/01/2020 at 15:30:07
Steve @ 193.

"Criticising Holgate, Davies, DCL and Kean while our discredited and over-paid senior players get barely a mention has been a trend on TW for at least two or three seasons. These youngsters have been the only bright spot in a poor season."

Agree with your final clause. These youngsters (and others) have been our primary bright spot for 2-3 seasons, not just this one.

But you are wrong to say the senior players have barely got a mention on TW for the last 2-3 seasons.

In that regard, TW is very democratic: there is not a single player who has escaped criticism and scorn by a few or many on here. Not one.

James Hughes
226 Posted 19/01/2020 at 15:55:42
Leicester have lost today. If we could just get a run going we are in with a shout of Europe. It's a massive if, but I still like to dream.

The summer transfer window would be a totally different prospect if we could qualify

Nicholas Ryan
227 Posted 19/01/2020 at 16:16:13
Just read, that post-Ancelotti, Napoli have lost 4 out of 5 Serie A games, and they are already talking in terms of Gattuso being sacked!

As for Moise Kean, he is young and will improve. Harry Kane went out on loan from Spurs 2 or 3 times before he came good. I also remember Everton beating Wolfsburg home and away in the Europa League. Wolfsburg had a loanee, who did next to nothing in either leg; his name …. Kevin De Bruyne!

Don Alexander
228 Posted 19/01/2020 at 16:22:03
James (#226), you make a very valid point but I recall the complete failure of the team in the last few matches of Martinez's first season to qualify for the European CL itself. To me they all but deliberately threw it away. I suspect that everyone of them on fat-cat last-biggie contracts were acutely aware that the influx of European money into our buying power meant real difficulty for some of them at least being able to continue in a comfy FF environment with new and better players arriving.

Is anything different now, with this squad?

We'll see.

Ray Roche
229 Posted 19/01/2020 at 16:31:10
The time to judge Kean is when he’s had a season with a quality midfield behind him. A midfield providing him with opportunities to score, who will recognise his strengths and play to them. Kane wouldn’t get double figures in our team.
Trevor Peers
230 Posted 19/01/2020 at 16:57:07
Steve@193.
I don't agree the youngsters are always the main brunt of criticism on TW, Sigurdsson, Schniederlin, Walcott, Delph, Keane, Mina, Pickford and Coleman are regularly slaughtered the most frequently on these threads. Rightly so on occasions.

The only question posed about the so called youngsters, some of them have been around for a while now, and it is a legitimate one, is to ask if are the they good enough to make it in the premiership on a consistent enough basis. Everyone has a different opinion of course, but we should all be able voice are opinions without being accused of wanting to destroy thier careers.

Mike Gaynes
231 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:00:51
Colin #223, excellent comparison. Traore had been Middlesbrough's POY the season before joining Wolves, but looked totally over his head last season. Now he's damn near unstoppable, even while still learning how to play the game within a team concept. And he'll be 24 next week.

Kean turns 20 next month. Definitely, definitely worth being VERY patient with.

Darren #221, I've noticed the same thing about his first touch, but I have also seen some absolutely elegant first touches from him on occasion, especially bringing the ball down. I think it's possible that nerves/rushing, rather than lack of skill, is to blame for his problem with this.

David Thomas
232 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:05:30
I honestly think people on here never ever learn it’s like Groundhog Day every season.

If you criticise any younger player your out of of order and Your completely wrong etc.

There will always be some people who just moan about everything but there is also a lot of fans who go the other way and start saying Holgate for the euros squad etc after something like a dozen decent games.

We have got to face reality and realise we are miles off bring a top team and whilst every bad performance doesn’t make us relegation fodder every half decent performance away at a team like West Ham doesn’t make our youngsters the class of 92.

Mike Gaynes
233 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:08:42
Well, whattya know. The RS just lost a goal to VAR.
Paul Tran
234 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:12:19
Darren #222, I noticed in a recent interview with Tom Davies that he mentioned that Ancelotti keeps his messages simple. Intelligent people don't need a barrage of information seconds before stepping into a meeting, or onto a football pitch, unless the coach is paid by the word.
Steve Ferns
235 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:17:01
James, is say we are already on such a run. 4 wins, 3 draws and one loss since Silva was sacked. 15 points from 24 available, averaging around 2 points per game. If we can keep that up we get to 59 points and that should be top 6.

Contrary to popular ToffeeWeb opinion, I believe this is the toughest Premier League in ages and this will be born out by the team going down in 18th having the highest points total in ages, and also 6th having the lowest points total for ages. Meanwhile the PL clubs march on unstoppable in European Competition.

Brent Stephens
236 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:18:38
And now lost a second to VAR.
Mike Gaynes
237 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:23:44
And that one appeared to be wrong, Brent. So the scales of justice seem to be balancing just a bit.
Brent Stephens
238 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:26:55
Mike it’s so unfair.

Colin Glassar
239 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:28:08
Thanks Mike. Sometimes patience does pay.
Andrew Keatley
240 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:35:59
Michael (197) - If people are critical of Moise Kean - or any other player - it does not necessarily equate to "bashing". I haven't seen anything I would describe as "Kean-bashing" - more an inquisitive doubt as to whether or not he has the tools to be a success at Everton.

As things stand I would say that (and have done from minute one) that he is raw, and that his all-round game is lacking. Yes, there is a level of patience that fans would be well-placed to offer him, but he will have to live up to his teenage hype - or at least show clear signs of improvement - or he will prove to be another expensive transfer mistake. I generally am supportive of young players, DCL and Holgate in particular over the last few years, but that is because I saw things in their play and endeavour that were easy to support - with Kean it feels more like being asked to have faith rather than anything evidence-based.

In terms of Holgate, DCL and Davies as the spine of our team - I think Holgate and DCL are there on merit, while Davies is there out of necessity. I still wonder if he has the ability to make the position his own.

John Pierce
241 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:39:37
There is a middle ground regarding Kean. Does he need to up his game, absolutely. Have we glimpsed enough raw talent to indicate patience, absolutely.

I think he’s a better technician than both Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, but the others have scored goals this season with a terrible midfield, he’s had the same ammunition. So yes there must be some improvement there.

He was bought for 30m so the raw material is good. The answer, for me, is hard work, something which he needs to adapt to. He won’t get anywhere near starting until he works as hard as the front two. Both work like dogs, the bar is very high in that regard.

That for him is chicken and egg. He needs minutes for sure but he won’t get the start unless he outworks his rivals for a spot.

He might get another start Tuesday?

Andrew Keatley
242 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:48:38
David (232) - I backed Holgate to make the England Euros squad a couple of months back. 100/1 he was; he's now 11/1 (and I actually think the current price is still a bit generous).
Conor McCourt
243 Posted 19/01/2020 at 17:52:38
Trevor and David - for me there isn't a problem with criticising any player for a poor performance or on a general basis that they aren't top players.

What I find frustrating is when they get singled out when they are the least of our problems. Take Tom Davies for example when we were really struggling under Silva he was the standout player while experienced quality players like Siggy weren't lifting a leg. After only 2 games when Tom wasn't great there was a lot of crap levelled at him on here yet a guy with loads of ability got no more but was a passenger all season until Big Dunc came.

Supporters of Davies know that he might not be good enough to be a top player but there is no reason he can't continue to pull his weight. As I said he was our 5th choice midfielder at the start of the season and is fighting to start every game.

The top 6 argument is pie in the sky. Leicesters squad midfielders are Mendy and Choudhury, Utds are Matic and Gomes, Arsenals are Guendouzi and Willock. I think Tom wouldn't fear any of those.

Only City, RS and Chelsea have much better quality options. If we had Gomes Gbamin and Gueye ahead of him now there would be much less worries around him.

Tony McNulty
244 Posted 19/01/2020 at 18:04:11
The level of fitness of the RS is one element of what gives them an edge against most teams, right to the very end of games. Compare their speed and ability to keep going against our very own SIggy and Schneiderlin, for instance.
Jerome Shields
245 Posted 19/01/2020 at 18:07:13
Jim #147

You are right, but until Everton play more like a team and individual players fulfil their roles, players like Kean will have difficulty establishing themselves.

Max Murphy
246 Posted 19/01/2020 at 18:12:41
Remember the expression "Midfield Dynamo"? Such great names in Everton's past: Bobby Collins, Alan Ball, Peter Reid, etc. Even Billy Bremner at Leeds – all come under this category.

Could we attribute the term "Midfield Dynamo" to any player in our current squad? Sadly, an emphatic no! Tom Davies is a tryer, but consistently makes too many bad passes, and is a lightweight, easily muscled off the ball. At best, he is an average Championship player. Carlo Ancelotti has his work cut out with the Everton squad. We have no guile, no brains, no skill, no spirit.
Some ToffeeWebbers go on about a "good away point" and seem happy with that – such low expectations have become the norm.

For over 25 years, we have had to endure rubbish performances week-in & week-out. As a spectator, and for the money we spend on the club, for once I'd like to be entertained. I cannot see this happening in the near future. Everton FC... RIP!

Derek Taylor
247 Posted 19/01/2020 at 18:57:19
Just accept we are going to win nothing. As ever, we shall be comfortably top half and that will secure a start on the new stadium.

What's the point of arguing over the likes of Davies, Holgate and DCL. All three are good players worthy of a place in a mid-table side and well done to Unsey for bringing them on. Of course we'd like to be a top side and we have a proven manager who will work towards that end. But for now, have faith and stop seeing red. !

Tony Abrahams
248 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:04:31
Agree about Liverpool’s fitness, but the other thing is that they play on the front foot, and not one player is scared of making a mistake, whereas it’s the total opposite with most of our players, who don’t take any chances, which is why we are so easy to play against, especially away from Goodison Pk?
Darren Hind
249 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:15:39
Conor 243 get paid.

There are people on this very thread pleading for patience for Kean having battered DCL since he was a young kid... very funny.

Kean will get his chances under Ancelotti and if he is good enough. he will rise to the top

Holgate has been a class act since he got here. Silva made him a scapegoat for his brainless zonal marking and some poor judges jumped on the band wagon and dismissed him. He was off to WBA and he played very well even though he played right back - natural footballers can do that. Now he is back here playing his proper position and he is still a class act.

When DCL doesnt score, the people who hammered him as a young boy embarrass themselves by surfacing again to call him a championship player and you can bet your life that when Holgate's standards drop for a minute those who hammered him will be back ignoring all he has done to make daft arsed comments. .

Who cares what they say ? We got some fantastic young players and they will only get better. We just need to get our transfers right and start bringing in some top players to compliment them and we`ll be on our way

Derek Taylor
250 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:17:12
Oh, Tony, if only you were our manager !
Tony Abrahams
251 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:31:31
I know Derek, but what could I, or any man do, when some of these players, actually thought Duncan Ferguson, was out of order for kicking off, when they lost at Anfield only two weeks ago!?

It’s like one of those parables in the bible, where the three kids got loads of money. One spent it wisely, one squandered everything, but the only one who disappointed was the kid who buried his money, which is how I look at loads of our players at the minute.

The fact that not one player tried to reimburse the fans for that debacle at Anfield, tells me everything, because the bastards are definitely burying the money!

Eric Paul
252 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:32:05
Tom@244
Regarding their fitness levels, their fitness training won’t be much different from any other prem side but they’ve played more games than any other side, they have fewer injuries, they don’t look jaded and they are running as much in the 90th minute as the first minute.
Hmmmmmmm 🤨
Tony Abrahams
253 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:39:30
Do you reckon it’s something untoward Eric? I don’t, I just believe they have got that much belief, and football is going through one of these periods, where not many teams really think for themselves, which helps to play into Liverpool’s hands.

There is a sure-fire way to beat Liverpool, and that is to go and play football in their half? Make them think, instead of using the tactics, that they want teams to use, maybe?

Darren Hind
254 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:39:47
Tony

I think you are getting your parables mixed up there mate. . And you a Cardinal Godfrey boy ?

Tony Abrahams
255 Posted 19/01/2020 at 19:48:48
You know what I mean though Darren, I’ve forgotten everything, watching some of these twenty passes across the back four, and then a back pass for Pickford to launch it aimlessly up the pitch!

I’ve forgotten the tale, but the moral of the story hasn’t changed, especially when I watched West Ham, just put it in the channels sometimes, and end up with a throw-in 30 yards from our goal?

Mathew25, what we’d do for five talents now? And that Godfrey must have been going down the pan, by the time I got there!

Paul Tran
256 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:01:20
Excellent set of parables, Tony. It's really simple with that lot; they're fit, they play on the front foot with purpose, they're very well organised and believe in what they're doing. They've got three very good strikers, a world class centre back and keeper.

None of their midfielders are special players. They do the basics with the confidence of having those players in front and behind.

I also read someone that Klopp tells them not to blow hard or sink to their knees when they're tired, to not let anyone think they're tired.

Tom Davies doesn't have to be a 'top' player. Like Holgate and DCL, he does need energy, purpose and organisation around him.

That's Carlo's job.

Ron Marr
257 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:06:27
DCL with 9 premier league goals has seen his goals per minute rate improve big time:

Aguero 73 minutes per goal
Salah 147
DCL 156
Mane 159
Sterling 160
Kane 162
Jimenez 194
Richarlison 239
Firmino 257

Link

Barry McNally
258 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:18:05
One thing for sure with DCL - if he played with the RS at same level he does at Everton he would have been capped long ago.
Robert Tressell
259 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:21:38
Davies might not be a beckham or a scholes, but he can very much be a nicky butt, darren fletcher, jordan henderson type. Teams need people with his sort of attitude as much as they need flashy technical ability. I just don't get why people are on his back. Presumably it'll be Anthony Gordon next up for criticism if he hasn't banged in a few goals in the 10 minutes or so here and there he gets till the end of the season.
Tony Abrahams
260 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:25:44
Watching yesterday Paul, you have just described how I felt when I was watching DC-L, the longer the game went on.

I didn’t think he was anything special, but he was still full of running, he looked strong, and he looked like he would have been able to do a lot more, with better players around him. Like you said, “players that play with a bit of purpose”

Stephen Meighan
261 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:31:56
4 players in that squad worth keeping. Holgate, Gomes, Richarlison, Calvert Lewin. The rest no thank you. Baines and Coleman have been great servants to the club but father time has caught up. Ancelotti has got a massive job on his hands hope he sticks it out but only time will tell.
Eric Paul
262 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:37:37
Not to mention hacking city’s scouting system Tony
Bobby Mallon
263 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:40:16
Robert 259 this is why Davis gets the stick as with the others. This is from another ToffeeWeb web contributor.

How can 'PL level' PROFESSIONAL footballers, not be able to pass and control a pass upto the 20m range? Our basic skills in the main were embarrassing yesterday. Rightly noted and mocked. On this display we're not the School of Science, its more like Nursery School, and baby steps...!

Andy Crooks
264 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:44:06
Mason, Tom and Dominic are good players. They will, all three of them, be great players. We have wasted money on some some poor players, poor because they just did not fit in, or because they lack mental strength.
I hope the young lads can cancel out the money wasted on Sandro, Bolasie, Tosun, Walcott etc..
In any other business, those responsible for the gross mismanagement of our club would be shamed. Paid off, sadly, but still shamed.
Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce. Three overpaid, talentless money grabbers.
Conor McCourt
265 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:46:36
Darren 249- you just reminded me with that post about Holgate a story which I had forgotten. A mate of mine is a Barnsley fanatic and John Stones was absolutely flying for us at the time. He said that we had robbed another jewel from them only this one was better.

I laughed thinking he was talking turkey because you always hear the second will be greater than the first. For example Anton was touted as being better than Rio Ferdinand. He was adamant that there was no comparison between the two of them and he might just be right.

John Pierce
266 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:53:48
You have to ask why under various different managers do we recycle so often?

Partly a sheer lack of bollocks, to try a pass knowing it might not come off. That hardens an opponents belief you won’t try anything different Or tricky. It allows teams to slowly close the net.

However the nub is the lack of urgency and execution of simple passes means we mis-control, often are facing back to goal and have to start again.

The group we have ATM are appalling passers.

Gomes, Digne, Bernard, Sigurdsson, Davies, Sidibe all have range, maybe Holgate but the rest are terrible. It’s hurts us massively.

Ancelotti’s pretty much said so yesterday or today, I forget which.

This approach kills players like Bernard who already have their next pass lined up in their head, as soon as we dither it’s gone, the window closed.

Ultimately that’s the players responsibility, however the manager is accountable for changing them when they don’t or cannot execute.

I expect several changes come Tuesday.

Carl Manning
267 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:54:38
DCL I think would do a solid job for England, similar to the one Emile heskey was used for. The European centre backs very rarely would have come up against a player that plays like dom does. And imagine him winning headers and knock ons for Sancho and Rashford.

Maybe we should push for Carlo to get his old team mate Mr Van Basten to spend a few sessions with him.

He’s seems to have picked up physicality tips off Dunc, would be great to see what else he could pick up from a natural finisher

Ray Robinson
268 Posted 19/01/2020 at 20:59:23
Re the Moise Kean discussion earlier, while it is unfair to judge him on the basis of so little playing time, he has managed to make absolutely no impression on me whatsoever - which I suppose must be some form of negative. What is he ? Certainly not a target man, not a lone striker? A dribbler,? Fox in the box? Speed merchant? Deadly predator?

Even with Niasse, who I do not rate at all, I could form an early impression - that of honest trier with very little skill but someone who can sometimes finish with aplomb, albeit contributes little else.

If someone can tell me what to look for in Kean, I can perhaps make a judgement. He seems to go missing in games, is rarely on the ball and therefore impossible for me to form an impression.
I genuinely do not know what to think of him and yet desperately want him to succeed.

Paul Tran
269 Posted 19/01/2020 at 21:07:18
Fair point Eric #262, I was quite suspicious that City didn't press charges. I'm guessing it was because both clubs had done plenty they wanted kept hidden. Glass houses, etc.
Bill Watson
270 Posted 19/01/2020 at 21:15:27
Darren # 249

Unless I'm very much mistaken we still appear to be employing a zonal marking system.

Tony Everan
271 Posted 19/01/2020 at 21:20:11
Whatever happens with Moise Kean, and I hope given time he becomes a fantastic striker for us, there is no excuse for losing concentration on his defensive duties.

He is 19 and should be given plenty of time to develop and come good. But once or twice yesterday he looked a bit knackered and dozy-arsed when it came to pressing and chasing West Ham's defenders down.

This is not a bashing, Richarlision had to learn it. Moise needs more fitness and awareness of the importance of this side of his game. Whether a player is 19 or 39, no team in the EPL can carry passengers and get away with it. DCLs goals are coming because of his insatiable desire to succeed, in training, every day and the dedicated hard work is paying off. Moise may even have more natural potential than DCL, only he can bring it to the fore.

There is plenty of optimisim behind Kean coming good, me included. The deal is that the fans need to be patient and Moise needs to work his socks off to get as fit as he can be [challenge himself to get fitter than DCL] and fully learn to adapt to the EPL and tune in to the the relentless workrate and focus that is necessary to succeed.

Moise Kean is an uncut diamond, raw and rough round the edges. One day he will be the jewel in the crown.

John Boon
272 Posted 19/01/2020 at 21:25:49
Please just leave the RS off our site (TW).
Michael Williams
273 Posted 19/01/2020 at 21:29:30
Andrew # From Todays' thread: There are more on this one and others:

"But if his ability was unquestionable, (Connor #186) then why on earth would a massive Italian giant such as Juventus even consider releasing this 19-year-old 'jewel' for such a meagre fee? They chose to to cash in. We were conned. The kid is a dud. An Italian flash in the pan. "

Eric Paul
274 Posted 19/01/2020 at 21:41:26
Michael,

I don't think his contract had much time left and he wouldn't sign another one so they had no choice but to sell.

Ernie Baywood
275 Posted 19/01/2020 at 23:09:08
Ray @268, I completely agree. I've seen nothing from him to indicate promise, an uncut diamond, potential. I don't even really know what he's supposed to be.

People can take this as bashing. I've never really understood that. I bash Schneiderlin because he's a coward, but with Kean I'm just talking about ability. I don't think he even has the basics.

Yeah Serie A... Italy... U21... I know they should mean something. But what? What are people seeing that indicates potential? Do you see a good touch? Passing ability? Clever movement? Knack of being in the right place? Technique?

I don't see any of them. I see the opposite. No doubt settling into a new country at 19 impacts your output, but to the extent that you lose everything that makes you a footballer?

I've deliberately kept to his ability and kept away from his attitude... because I'll give him leeway on that side of things given age and circumstances. But I'm not a big fan of the on-pitch tantrums either. If you're not moving, and not in space, then complaining about the ball not getting to you seems a bit silly.

Whether there's potential or not, we can't afford to play a man down at the moment. There needs to be a better plan than just hoping he comes good.

Bob Parrington
276 Posted 19/01/2020 at 23:19:25
Colin @223. I was thinking the same when I watched the West Ham game and then watched the Wolves game vs Southampton. Both strong-built and lightening fast. Wolves 'transition is generally fast. The flow of play from Everton is mostly laboriously slow, eventually building up to the ball being crossed or short-passed through a crowded middle near the box.

When Gordon came on, it looked like Kean had a chat with him indicating to try to zip the early ball through for him to run on to.

I'm a firm believer that he will turn out to be a quality striker.

Tom Bowers
277 Posted 19/01/2020 at 23:38:15
It would appear Moise Kean is an enigma and one can understand why Juve weren't really interested in keeping him and none of the top clubs saw much to pique their interest either.

I suppose as a youngster (he still is) Juve saw something but he just hasn't progressed and despite the argument about lack of playing time he isn't showing that something special that warrants a starting position just yet.

It's a similar case to Deulofeu who was not regarded by Barca and was slow out of the blocks at Everton before a bad injury but Watford have persevered with him and he is doing very well with them.

Certainly I would like him to make it at Everton, along with Iwobi, but he hasn't taken his opportunities so far.

Derek Knox
278 Posted 20/01/2020 at 01:13:18
John Pierce @266, an unfortunately accurate assessment of our under-performing players and – if I may add – Board!

Any other business would be bankrupt now with these idiots at the sharp end. How can the team function properly when led by well-paid dickheads?

Unfortunately, that seemingly never-ending flow of money will keep coming as long as they keep us afloat!

Bob Parrington
279 Posted 20/01/2020 at 03:29:12
Derek and John, much of this was on display at West Ham. OK, Moyes's pressing tactics were good but our speed and (in)accuracy of passing was hopeless for much of the time.

Too many times did we see players turn back to our goal and make a short pass to another of our players under pressure or to Pickford, whose distribution was well below par. Laborious to the extreme. It is no surprise that our strikers rarely got a look-in!

Okay, the board is ultimately responsible for everything but is not taking the day-to-day decisions. These are for the different managers and, ultimately, the players.

I have the utmost respect for Ancelotti. If he wants to play out from the back he needs players with the confidence and know-how to execute this strategy.

Darren Hind
280 Posted 20/01/2020 at 05:30:03
No you are not mistaken Bill @270.

Ancelotti has also adopted Zonal marking too. It cost us a goal against Newcastle and cost us another one on Saturday.

I wrote an article about Zonal shortly after Silva got here. I said then he would have to stop zonal, or it would eventually cost him his job.
I firmly believe he would still be here, pushing for European qualification if he hadn't destroyed confidence with all those goals we conceded through dead-ball situations.

Ancelotti is faced with the same problem. He either changes the players or he ditches Zonal. This group of players are very clearly not up to it. I winced when I saw the ease with which Diop powered above Kean and Davies on Saturday. I believe it would have been a different story had Mina or Calvert-Lewin been marking him.

Dave Abrahams
281 Posted 20/01/2020 at 08:58:26
Bill (270) and Darren (280), spot on and add the Burnley game to the list, they had two good chances to score in the first half when the defence was all over the place from a corner and a free kick.
Jim Burns
282 Posted 20/01/2020 at 09:36:53
Picking up on the zonal marking thing - I watched Ancelotti's post-match interview on the Official site and have to say was left slightly deflated.

He was asked specifically about our reputation for letting in goals from set-pieces and he essentially shrugged and commented along the lines that "this is football" and "lots of teams concede from set-pieces".

Early days of course and I know he ain't going to lay bare his true thoughts and potential remedies during a post-match interview. Body language and shrugs aside, I hope there is far more going on in his head and in meetings with Brands and the players.

I may be in a minority here but a tad more passion and irritation wouldn't go amiss – if only to let the fans know he's 'on it'.

I'm trusting his CV and undoubted record in the game and will keep doing that for as long as there is a reason to.

Darren – do I sense (very) early unease?

Eddie Dunn
283 Posted 20/01/2020 at 12:26:49
Darren @280,

I mentioned above that as Diop scored Mina was (and had been) pulling on his arm. He was marking him but he still reached out a leg to pop it past Pickford. If he hadn't scored, it should have been a penalty.

Jamie Crowley
284 Posted 20/01/2020 at 14:24:52
Everton win tomorrow, Chelsea and Arsenal tie, Man City beats Sheffield, and Liverpool beat Wolves?

We'd be only 8 points off 4th, 5 points off 5th.

This is game number 3 coming up against Newcastle, of 5 winnable games that would see us back near the Top 4-6 teams in the table.

If we are 2-3 points off 5th (or better) come that Arsenal game in February, fantastic. Then the season isn't entirely shot to hell, and we can play some games with real meaning.

Steve Ferns
285 Posted 20/01/2020 at 14:32:45
There's three famous clubs in Sheffield, Jamie! United, Wednesday and the world's first football club, Sheffield FC.

I have been on about this run of games for a little while now. The four after that are difficult. But if we do as you say, and beat Newcastle, Watford and Palace, then we would be in the running for top 4. If you really want to close the gap then the easiest way is to beat them as you can really close the gap then. So playing Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal would be welcome.

After winning these six games, we then play the red shite at Goodison and smash them so badly they then fail to win another game and lose everything. That's when I wake up and realise that I'm only dreaming!

Jamie Crowley
286 Posted 20/01/2020 at 15:44:48
Steve - I know! But there's only one in the Premier League! 😉

In an honest moment, we're simply not good enough for Top 4. Chelsea has a better team than us presently, in my opinion. But if we get close, you never, ever know what can happen.

And, tempering the above comment, I do believe we are going to see improvement under Carlo as we move forward. So if we're improving through this run of winnable games, you never, ever know what can happen.

Hope springs eternal, and it's the hope that kills you.

Steve Ferns
287 Posted 20/01/2020 at 15:46:36
I agree, Jamie. Definitely not good enough for the top 4 right now. We can still make 6th, with a bit of luck.
Jamie Crowley
288 Posted 20/01/2020 at 15:46:52
Adding -

Knowing Everton, we'll get within 2 points of 4th place, have a chance to actually get to 4th by beating a top Club in 6-7 weeks time.

We'll lose, and finish 8th, lamenting what could have been.

I swear I'm a positive person, but I've seen this all before!

Steve Ferns
289 Posted 20/01/2020 at 16:04:50
You have to love the enthusiasm of Anthony Gordon, who spoke to the club's media department after his debut. I hope he is selected for a start tomorrow in place of Walcott. Link
Tony Abrahams
290 Posted 20/01/2020 at 16:19:18
Jamie @288, we need a couple of signings if we are to get closer to the top 6.

Top 7 is about right, said Phil Walling many times, but even Allardyce got us to 8th place, which is very easy to achieve once a team finds a bit of pragmatism in this league?

To get higher you need the things we are badly lacking, especially when we play away from Goodison Park, so let's see if we can sign a bit of quality, and drive, and then we might just get a little run for our money imo, mate.

Jamie Crowley
291 Posted 20/01/2020 at 16:45:56
Tony -

When you look at our injuries, they have affected us massively. Reason being, they are in the same general area of the pitch – central midfield. Obviously I'm speaking of Gomes and Gbamin.

When injuries come, if they come in different positions, say a winger (American alert!) and a defender, and a central midfielder, teams of Everton's size can weather that storm. There should be enough depth in the squad to fill those positions handily.

When you lose two starters in central midfield, and now three with Sigurddson out, it's devastating. [Never mind Iwobi!] We're actually doing acceptably well considering this dynamic.

So for me, I'd like us to simply stay the course, get healthy, and add only 1-2 players of quality – one in midfield, and one at the back in the wider positions (left-bck for me, and I'd bring Kenny home to pair with Coleman on the right, and let Sidibe go back to his parent club after the loan).

If we're prudent and patient, over the next two years minding our outlay and improving our finances, while improving our quality with 1-2 signings in key areas, I think we'll push the Top 4.

And one more point - you can't underestimate the contribution our younger players will play in this ascent. Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Davies, Kean, Gordon, Kenny, Richarlison, et al. We have quality with the young kids. Patience, real patience, over the next 2 seasons will see us able to only buy sparingly and buy well.

Financial strength, solid team, world class manager. If the powers that be don't fuck this up, we have an extremely bright future. It just isn't going to happen over night. Thank Walsh, Fat Sam, and Ronald "Lest We Forget" Koeman for that. I don't blame Silva at all. He and Brands brought in some good players. Silva simply didn't have the tactical acumen required to succeed.

Onwards and Upwards.

American Footnote to make this post entirely too long:

In 1991-92 my NFL team, the Green Bay Packers, started bringing in some seriously talented kids. After the '92-'93 season, I genuinely felt we were a bomb waiting to explode. We signed this fella named Reggie White. No one will probably know who Reggie White is. He was a BEAST of a player. A defensive lineman who was simply the best I've ever seen. THAT was Green Bay's "big" signing. He, coupled with those kids, and quarterback named Brett Favre, saw us win the Super Bowl in the 95-'96 season.

Point being, I saw it coming. You could see the potential, and knew it was coming.

I have the exact same feeling about Everton. We've hired a man I really like in Marcel Brands. We now have a world class coach. We have a glut of potential with a bunch of kids in my opinion. We're 1-2 signings and some patience away from real success.

Health and consistency is the key. We have to stay acceptably healthy and keep our players. A career-ending injury or a few key transfers will reset the clock. But I don't see Everton selling any longer to be honest. I see a success project at its genesis.

Ajay Gopal
292 Posted 20/01/2020 at 17:00:30
Wow, Jamie (291), that is one of the most uplifting posts I have read on TW. I hope your predictions come true and Everton become one of the most successful football clubs mainly built with young talent coming through. Keep it coming, Jamie! COYB
Darren Hind
293 Posted 20/01/2020 at 17:11:22
Eddie, have another look, Mate. Mina is not in the same post code as Diop. Diop gets a free run at Davies and Kean and glances it home from the near post. Mina generally gets assigned the area between middle and far post. anything long or short takes our tallest player out of the equation.

I know Mina did have a tug at the guy who tried to get a foot on it, but the ball was already crossing the line. I think it's harsh to blame him as he is much more comfortable if you give him a big opponent to mark. He doesn't seem happy marking space.

We have too many players who are really piss-poor in the air to deploy zonal marking. Coleman, Digne, Walcott, Davies, Keane, Sigurdsson, Bernard, Schniederlin all offer little or no protection against centre-halves powering in on them. Holgate isn't much better than average in the air and Pickford makes Dai Davies look like Pat Jennings.

We can't do it. Every coach in England knows, if you can keep the ball away from Calvert-Lewin or Mina, you have every chance of scoring from a dead ball situation against us.

Dave Abrahams
294 Posted 20/01/2020 at 17:22:59
Jamie (291), I told you a couple of weeks ago, when you were putting yourself in the back rows to watch the Blues, to get down here nearer the front with me. You can get even further forward now Jamie, you are one of the most positive Blues on here and thinking positive, like you do, gets you more than halfway to your goal. I'm a lot older than you but never been as positive, so you can go ahead of me with your “We can be fuckin' better than anyone in this league.”

Jamie, you are ToffeeWeb's James Cagney, altogether now “I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy”, get over here and we”ll all sing it together. Going out now to meet my mates, we'll practice singing that at the end of the night in Ned Kelly's.

Mike Gaynes
295 Posted 20/01/2020 at 17:45:52
Jamie, you OK, bro? Just want you to know I'm here for you after yesterday.

Dave, please have someone record that songfest on your phone -- and post it on social media. It'll go viral, I promised.

Jamie Crowley
296 Posted 20/01/2020 at 18:02:38
Mike - totally fine. They were beaten by a better team, and I was very proud they never quit and came out in the second half and kept going. 👍🏻

It was a great season overall.

Steve Ferns
297 Posted 20/01/2020 at 18:07:02
Jamie, was that to the Steve Ferns 49ers?
Jamie Crowley
298 Posted 20/01/2020 at 18:08:09
Yup.
Steve Ferns
299 Posted 20/01/2020 at 18:11:41
I might have to watch my second game of American Football since the ‘80s.
Steve Ferns
300 Posted 20/01/2020 at 18:21:18
Anyone bothered that Holgate’s contract is in its last 12 months, next season? Brands needs to sort that out ASAP.

Edit: sorry it ends 2022. Still needs sorting though.

Graham Hammond
301 Posted 20/01/2020 at 18:34:51
Steve at 300. I totally agree, Steve.

For the most part, Mason Holgate is looking like and playing like the Everton captain right now. He has qualities that are setting him apart from most in our current squad.

I had not realised his contract situation was where it is at currently so it is little wonder that clubs such as Newcastle and Sheffield United are rumoured to be circling and if true, who can blame them?

Mason is needed here, right here, right now and the foreseeable future and medium-term certainly. Sort it NOW Brands!! Do your fucking job! Priority.

Dave Abrahams
302 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:26:41
Mike (295), Mike, me with a phone? I’m strictly eighteen century, never had one, me and me mates always have a sing song at the end of the night, I can sneak my voice in among the others but still can’t disguise I’ve got the worst voice in the world, but I try, I won £10 once in Cantril Farm, a district in Liverpool, in a worse singers competition, won it easy, got a standing ovation and barred out at the same time.
Paul Birmingham
303 Posted 26/01/2020 at 00:37:33
Darren @293, spot on, and it's a nap.

It's the scratch of what goes on at Finch Farm.

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