Silva: I was calm before Hammers win

Monday, 21 October, 2019 150comments  |  Jump to last

Paul Ellis/AFP/Getty Images

Marco Silva says that he wasn't concerned in the run-up to Saturday's win over West Ham United that arrested a four-match losing streak and lifted Everton out of the relegation zone.

Goals from Bernard and Gylfi Sigurdsson secured a well-deserved 2-0 victory that should have been more on the balance of play and the chances that the Blues created.

Silva made five changes to the team that has lost at Burnley and was rewarded with a display full of energy, movement and attacking intent that was only let down by wasteful finishing.

Alex Iwobi excelled in the No 10 role in place of Sigurdsson who was dropped to the bench before coming on late to slam home the killer second goal in stoppage time, while Bernard made an impact on his return to the starting XI with his second of the season in the first half.

“I was impressed with the quality of the football we showed this afternoon and [was pleased] to see our players expressing themselves on the pitch,” Silva said afterwards. “The pace we played, the intensity we played with when we lost the ball, and our organisation…

“Of course, there were some very good individual performances but, in general, as a collective we did really well with a lot of mobility in our offensive organisation. The three front players played a very good game with Alex in behind.

“It's possible it was our best performance [of the season] and it was good to see how we reacted. It was a must-win game but at Everton all the games should be must-win.

"The crowd was really good. I asked them to support our players from the first moment and they did."

All the talk in the build-up to the game was how much pressure Silva was under after an awful start to the season but, just as he did on Friday, the Portuguese shrugged off the notion that he was fearful of another defeat and losing his job.

“I was really calm before the game and during the week,” he explained, “because I know what I'm doing and I have full confidence in what we are doing as a staff and full confidence in the players.

“For many reasons you can't achieve the result but inside we knew what we were doing and the confidence was there. Of course, it's better when you are winning games in a row to win a football match.

“Pressure has to be a pleasure, a privilege for us. We are doing what we love. Express yourselves on the pitch is what I say - and we did.

"When you are not in a very good moment, the pressure is there to win more games. We were not good enough in the last results."

 

Reader Comments (150)

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Jerome Shields
1 Posted 21/10/2019 at 05:37:39
What I get from this is that Everton is seen as a long term project by Moshiri and Brands and Silva was not under threat and will see out his contract.

There have been alot of variables this season affecting players availablity and still alot of work to be put in regarding the playing squad and additions required in future transfer windows. What this game confirmed was that those plans are still on track and the resources are available to go forward, in the context of Moshiri and Brands thinking.

Silva is sticking to a plan, but also has shown some adaptability, craved by all of us.

Three years ago we all would have bit off the hand that was giving us that. Next step is consistency, to break the midtable pattern.

In my opinion Everton are set for two purple patches this season, a step up from one last season.

The suffering is not over yet lads

Lev Vellene
2 Posted 21/10/2019 at 07:25:54
"... inside we knew what we were doing and the confidence was there."

And yet, no matter how well we've played in individual games this last year, in every game I've watched I always expect that if we concede first, our glass jaw will be thoroughly exposed and the players will for some weird reason just switch off.

It's most frustrating, and it's been the same under several managers.

Jim Harrison
3 Posted 21/10/2019 at 08:37:52
Can't expect him to say he was bricking it really! Standard manager blurb. In truth, I would hope that he was confident as true winners don't let their heads drop.
Eddie Dunn
4 Posted 21/10/2019 at 08:40:46
Silva is kidding himself. Why doesn't he come clean and say we played more fluid football because he dropped Sigurdsson and Scheiderlin and had a better right side without Coleman there to slow it down.

Also, we seemed to be man-marking as opposed to the zonal-ball watching of recent weeks.

I was mightly impressed with our efforts and delighted for Sigurdsson coming on and sealing the win but, if I see Seamus picked ahead of Sidibe for the next game and Davies dropped for Schniederlin, then I will conclude that the coach is an idiot. He needs to keep this winning side.

John Keating
5 Posted 21/10/2019 at 09:06:58
Obviously he has to come out with this nonsense even though I doubt many, including himself, believe it.

Wouldn't it be refreshing, and probably get more support, if he, and others were truthful and said it how many of us see it. We all want the Club to return to its rightful place at the top table and a bit of realism and honesty may help.

One thing I don't understand is how posters can make missing injured players as an excuse for our poor performances not only this season but since he joined.

Losing the games we have has been solely down to poor tactics and team selection. It's like we are the only club that suffers from injuries!

Tony Waring
6 Posted 21/10/2019 at 09:14:06
Some posters have complained that Silva is not animated on the touchline. Personally I am rather glad that he doesn't try to emulate the guy who looks after the RS. His antics on the touchline yesterday at Old Trafford were frankly embarrassing.
Bill Watson
7 Posted 21/10/2019 at 09:44:15
John #5,

I totally agree. The losing run and dreadful performances have been entirely due to Silva's selections and tactical set-ups.

His selections against Brighton will demonstrate if he's learned any lessons or if he'll revert to type and recall Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Coleman.

Dave Williams
8 Posted 21/10/2019 at 09:52:47
Well, he would say that, wouldn't he??!!

His team selection next week will tell us more than this interview. What he doesn't mention is that he had to make five changes to inject a different approach to the game and it was those changes which led to a much more energetic, dynamic performance with everyone playing well. It wasn't a case of “What we do every day will inevitably lead to a performance like this” but rather one of him selecting a team which was made to move forwards and press with intensity.

I watched the whole game again last night (sad, I know, but I enjoyed it so much) and the performance of Gomes stood out. How we have missed him- his energy, control, strength in winning or retaining possession and vision with his passing. This is one top-class midfield player and Tom was his perfect partner. Watching it again showed me a difference in Tom- he didn't charge around all over the pitch but played almost as an old fashioned right half, a little reminiscent of Howard Kendall as a player. He was disciplined in keeping his position (Gomes helped here in that he kept to the centre or left) and looked calmer and much stronger for it.

Next Saturday will show us whether Silva has learned a lesson here.

Danny Baily
9 Posted 21/10/2019 at 10:00:51
That was a massive 3 pts at the weekend. That we're even thinking along those lines suggests that all is not well at the club. If he is still calm he shouldn't be, especially so when you consider the fixtures coming up.
Dermot Byrne
10 Posted 21/10/2019 at 10:18:14
Tony #6: agree. In the end, it is the 90 mins that are key. The antics on sideline are just character traits and, for some, PR.

Our best managers didn't run around like kids and to expect that, if Silva did, we would get more points, is naïve.

Tony Everan
11 Posted 21/10/2019 at 10:30:19
I believe you Marco..

I was calm before the West Ham match too.

I was definitely CALM!

WHO'S SAYING I WASN'T CALM? I WAS FUCKING CALM, OKAY!!!

SERENITY NOW, SERENITY NOW, SERENITY NOW!!

Jer Kiernan
12 Posted 21/10/2019 at 10:36:15
Klipperty's portrayal by the media as "passionate" is yet another case of the bias that pushes and agenda to hand them the Premier League, they do of course "deserve" it after such a long wait

He looks like a buffoon, it is bad sportmanship (a trait he has constantly shown) but to me is more to bully officials into giving him what he wants. It works.

Would I want Silva to behave the same no, but do feel in recent weeks as he has looked like a man who is all out of ideas. I was delighted with the win on Sat but it does hold up a mirror to the fact that we should have changed things up weeks ago.

If ever a player needed a dropping it was Siggy, He drops him and lo and behold he was like a man possessed when he came off the bench.

NOBODY should be guaranteed a place in the side, With the exception of very few players in any generation (Messi, Ronaldo etc). Players' form fluctuates, a good manager can read this.

Anyways, I will judge after Xmas but I still cannot see Silva being here long-term. I'm trying to stay positive as it has been a rough couple of months.


Denis Richardson
13 Posted 21/10/2019 at 10:53:47
I would also be extremely calm, at all times in fact, knowing full well if I messed up I'd be handed a cheque for a cool £4m as I'm bid farewell. In fact my 'calmness' would have started as soon as pen hit contract.

Vary easy to be calm when you're going to be paid a fortune either way.

Rob Halligan
14 Posted 21/10/2019 at 10:58:55
FFS Tony, CALM DOWN WILL YA!!!
Steve Ferns
15 Posted 21/10/2019 at 11:06:55
Agree with all about Klopp. It puts pressure on other managers to copy it.

It is like they need to display the same passion; otherwise, it doesn't mean as much. Or the players need to look to the sideline to see the manager waving his arms to know they need to try harder. If you need a demented clown on the sidelines waving his arms about to make you run a bit faster when you're getting paid £100,000 per week (or a lot more in some cases), then how did you make it as an elite level professional footballer?

I'd be surprised if any player really gave a shit what the manager's reaction is on the sideline. I think if you are an emotional guy, ie passionate, and you're suddenly losing, then it would be more reassuring to have a manager on the sideline who is calm.

Anyway, I think the TV cameras and clever editing makes the managers look like caricature of themselves and does not properly represent what is actually happening, as the TV cameras have an agenda there to fit in with their hype bubble.

In the 1980s, as I was too young to remember, was it really Kendall v Paisley / Fagan / Dalglish? From what I remember, the hype surrounding the manager is a recent thing emanating from the domination of Ferguson and the arrival of the big personalities like Mourinho and Wenger. But it could just be I didn't pay enough attention to the managers beforehand as I was a kid and it was all about the players for me.

Anyway, onto Silva's post-game comments, I agree with John Keating, that Silva has to come out with this. You cannot speak honestly though. If Silva did what Eddie suggested, then that is detrimental to the team. You can't tell the TV audience that Coleman isn't good enough or Schneiderlin is what most on here think he is. That would negatively affect the players concerned, it would also affect the rest of the dressing room who might be friends with them or think they won't give the manager 100% because he'd only throw them under the bus next time they have a bad game. If you see the manager criticising his players, ie, Jose Mourinho at Man Utd, then you know the end is nigh, and actually the manager might be trying to get himself sacked.

It goes back to Martinez. I never minded all the shite he came out with. His job was to build the players up so they could go out and perform. If he says a load of bollocks to the players to make them win, then great. I'd much rather the manager give the players some home truths in the dressing room and then tell the TV that they are Pele. I don't think it's two-faced, I think that's what a good manager should do.

I also think we should stop hanging on the manager's every word and analysing it. He's not delivering a carefully prepared presentation to the players, it's a few soundbites for the TV so they can put some more guff on Sky Sports News to fill a hole and keep us all watching 24 hours a day.

Derek Taylor
16 Posted 21/10/2019 at 11:19:25
How long before news of a new, extended contract for this genius manager?

Stranger things have happened!

Bill Watson
17 Posted 21/10/2019 at 12:08:09
Steve; not so much a contrast in the 1980s but it certainly was in the 1960s with Catterick v Shankly.

Catterick was seen as dour and he certainly didn't go out of his way to cultivate the media. Many of us veterans will remember the infamous incident when the MotD cameras were unceremoniously thrown out of the ground.

By contrast, Shankly was always looking for the next soundbite and the media hung on his every utterance no matter how ridiculous they were.

Catterick preferred his teams to do the talking on the pitch and in footballing terms we were light years ahead of the RS.

Steve Ferns
18 Posted 21/10/2019 at 12:20:08
Bill, I understand that Catterick is considered a legend. I listened to Joe Royle's interview recently and he was going on about what a great manager Catterick was. But yet, I read he didn't speak to the press, as you confirmed.

I also knew the MOTD story (didn't he say he didn't want the opposition to be able to study how we play?), I also read how he didn't take the training, and that he had an office in a cabin on the corner of Bellefield and sat with his back to the training pitch.

I fail to join up these observations and the esteem in which Catterick is held. So, the question is why is Catterick revered by some, above even Kendall, as our greatest ever manager?

Dave Abrahams
19 Posted 21/10/2019 at 12:20:31
Bill (17), very true. Catterick didn't court publicity, in his head his job was to make Everton the top club in the country, which he did.

Shankly was the opposite, went out of his way to please the media and they loved him for it, they would wait hours for him after a game because they knew they would get a quote off him, no matter how ridiculous it was, it helped that Shankly was in love with himself, with a massive egocentric personality.

Tom Bowers
20 Posted 21/10/2019 at 12:45:28
Everybody's different, right!

Some manager's are successful by being quiet and unassuming generally earning respect because they don't treat players like babies but they still need good strategies and the ability to change when Plan 'A' isn't working.

Much depends on the squad that you have and some players respond better to a hardliner but not often.

For some managers the job is made easier when they have all the assets at their disposal to draw upon and there are not many who are lucky enough. Patience has to be shown by owners but very little sympathy there when you get to the bottom three.

Silva is still on probation for now but you just know they have to get a few more decent results over the next few weeks.

Paul Tran
21 Posted 21/10/2019 at 12:50:55
Steve #18, two championship-winning teams – different teams, plus an FA Cup. That's why he's seen a legend. You can be as dour as you like when you get results like that. That's why he got the time he got after dismantling that great side and buying duds.
Peter Neilson
22 Posted 21/10/2019 at 12:57:06
Harry Catterick, nothing subjective about it, two league titles and an FA Cup and more first division points in the 1960s than any other manager. Regardless of creases in his track suit trousers he was a great manager and tactician. An Everton legend regardless of not playing the PR game.

The Untold Story by Rob Sawyer is a well worth reading. Howard Kendall is my era and maybe the esteem they are held in is a generational thing?

Derek Taylor
23 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:01:16
I loved The Catt because he won things and always kept us in the frame during the sixties. That he was a miserable bugger who avoided the Press didn't matter until he got jealous of the great team he had put together to win the League in 69-70 and systematically tore it apart. His head went before his heart did!
Ray Roche
24 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:01:50
The downside of Catterick's objection to MotD is that we have virtually no footage of our two great sides at Goodison.

Dave19.

On the occasions that I met Shankly, and he wasn't playing up to the cameras, I found him to be a warm, genuine man who loved football. The world is a more colourful place with the likes of Shankly And Clough.

I liked him. Not like Gnasher, who complains about everything that doesn't go his way.

Eric Myles
25 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:10:39
What the others said – but also Catterick had us playing some of the best football the country had seen at that time.
Alan McGuffog
26 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:16:57
Agree with Ray. Shankly got on your tits at times but he was a genuine bloke and did, of course, speak very well of EFC in his later years. Unlike the total phoney in charge now.

Catterick? Oversaw the greatest decade in our history. Nuff said.

Ray Roche
27 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:20:53
And just for the record, The Catt's sides were, in my opinion, superior to Kendall's.
Alan McGuffog
28 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:25:48
Ray I have stated this many times but the football we played in 1968-69 Was the greatest I have ever had the privelige to watch. Christ what a team...
Dave Abrahams
29 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:42:07
Ray (24), yes I'll bow down to that, The world is a more colourful place with characters like Shankly and Clough.

Shankly still fuckin' loved himself though, not retracting that bit, Ray!!!

Ray Roche
30 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:42:19
True Alan. I wonder how, all things being equal, fitness, boots and the Frido ball they use nowadays, how the 69-70 side would get on against Man City? With '69 refereeing though.😁
Ray Roche
31 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:43:27
OK Dave, point taken!
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

32 Posted 21/10/2019 at 13:46:38
I always listen to the manager's pressers, but I don't give them as much gravitas as some evidently do.

I don't use his utterances as a vehicle of confirmation bias and a stick to beat him with, or to ridicule his (perceived) poor English (his English as a second language speaker is more than adequate).

If he came out and spoke the truth and only the truth, there would be uproar on TW and beyond. The pressers are a contractural obligation all managers and clubs are under. Most serve up benign pap to fill column inches and broadcasting minutes.

What is of greater interest to me is, following Saturday's vastly improved 90-minute intensity and performance, who he selects away to Brighton at the weekend.

It quickly became evident that the majority of the five changes were forced on Silva and not part of some master tactical and selection switch. Sidibe had to come in for the suspended Coleman. With Delph and Gbamin injured, not only was Tom Davies selected but even Baningime – who played for the U-23s the previous evening – was on the bench. Schneiderlin was either injured, or absent due to family reasons according to whichever report you read. Gomes was fit (fully..? we don't know) so was drafted in.

Sigurdson was 'rested' (or dropped..?) having played two full internationals. Iwobi came in.

The major re-shuffle was the front three, with both Bernard and Walcott recalled and Richarlison shifted into the middle.

By intention or good fortune, it worked out well for us. Football is littered with such examples of manager's 'lucking out' and finding a winning combination by accident.

Presumably those unavailable, or 'rested', for the West Ham game will be in serious contention for the Brighton game.

I'm extremely delighted with the win at the weekend. But Silva's own future and the club's fortunes under him will only improve when he addresses and turns around three repeated failures under his stewardship:

1) a Premier League high of 22 goals conceded from dead ball situations since the start of last season

2) Never once in 23 Premier League games coming back to win having conceded the first goal (20 defeats in those 23 games)

3) Improving an abysmal away record (which admitedly didn't start on his watch)

Brighton away last season was yet another tepid performance by Everton and one of Silva's random throwing on of attacking players in a schoolyard tactic attempt to retrieve a game we were losing (the controversial goal awarded to Brighton from...a corner kick).

It was a game he went with three central defenders - Zouma, Keane, Mina - Coleman and Digne as wingbacks, Gana and Gomes in midfield, same forward line as v West Ham on Saturday. No Siggy.

By game's end, Mina, Gomes and Bernard had been replaced by Calvert-Lewin, Siggy and Niasse and it was anybody's guess what the formation or intended tactics of the team were.

My ideal scenario for the Brighton game is for Silva to largely go with the same selection as the West Ham game, for us to concede the first goal, but then to relentlessly overwhelm Brighton and get a win on the road, with Silva making timely, appropriate and effective substitutions that help us win the game. That would be the first of many steps he needs to make to bring back a number of fans on his side.

Saturday's raucous support was a clear barometer that it doesn't take much to win the Blue faithful over IF they can see commitment and intensity from their team.

John McFarlane Snr
33 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:06:02
Hi all, just arrived home from watching my 'Young Lady' spend my money in ASDA.

The first issue I would like to address is after match interviews, the only manager who described the match as I saw it was David Moyes. I think that no matter what approach Marco Silva and managers in general adopt, they leave themselves open to criticism. If they tell the truth by saying, "We were diabolical today" they would, in my opinion, be met with a barrage of "Well you picked them!"

They appear to be in a lose-lose situation. Regarding touchline behaviour, I would like to see a more enthusiastic Marco Silva, but I would cringe if he behaved in the way that Klopp does.

I always think that there is a distinct difference between favourite and greatest managers and players, the first manager [and again it's a matter of opinion] to provide many Evertonian's with football we had never witnessed was Johnny Carey, he laid the foundations for the successes of both Harry Catterick and Howard Kendall, each one playing a part in the history of Everton.

Chris Hockenhull
34 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:09:20
1968-69... best Everton season for me in terms of a side who played with no fear. They mixed it up with the cloggers and passed the opposition apart and scored a plenty home and away. Won nothing that season but the way they played won my heart to this day!!
Derek Taylor
35 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:09:36
Jay, given that Saturday's side was rather forced on the manager by unavailability, which of his regulars do you see him re-instating at Brighton?

Surely he will want to tinker, as is his won't?

Jerome Shields
37 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:14:00
Dereck #16

A new contract will be discussed at the second part of next season.

Steve #15

I found:

Kendall just talked facts, ending with a no-nonsense statement.

Paisley hardly said anything, outside the bootroom. Media was not his medium. . . and he was not worried about it.

Fagan was honest and obsessed with players competing.

Ferguson got the Assistant Manager to speak but, when he did it, gave brief facts, unless he was winding up Wenger or Keegan.

Dalglish it depended on what mood he was on and could be short.

Silva is as you described.

Steve Ferns
38 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:16:09
I knew the trophies that Catterick won, the teams he built, the players he purchased and how beautiful the football was. I just wanted to understand what made the man great, if there was certain things he didn't do. I suppose I should read the Rob Sawyer book, as suggested by Peter. Cheers mate.
Mike Dolan
39 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:21:06
Catterick's Everton played some of the most beautiful football I have ever seen. I will always believe that, had Tony Kaye not got slapped with a lifetime ban, when he did we would have dominated the English game for a decade.

Silva's Everton at times last season played some really good football. As frustrating as this season has been I think we should cut Marco Silva a bit of a break. While the squad has improved tremendously in terms of talent over the last four seasons, he stilł has to shoehorn players into the team that are not fully suited to his style of play.

If last season he didn't have Gana, Gomes and Zouma as three of the first names to go into the match day sheet there would never have been that brilliant late season patch were we played all the Sky favorites off the park.

He is never going to be able to keep everyone happy and he is not exactly his own best PR person but let's give him credit for seeing small things like how a future great like Davies at this stage of his career would have been destroyed to be left to run the midfield without the magnificent Andre Gomes by his side.

As someone above said, improvement will be a patchy thing but last season was a big improvement on the season before and this season, in the end, will be a bigger improvement on the last. It's not a fast process and let's never kid ourselves that our finishing position in the table at the moment tells us very much about where we actually are in our quest to become a real consistent force in world football in the future.
We are, after all, not yet 4 years into Koeman's 5-year project.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

40 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:29:21
Derek @ 35.

That's his dilemma now, isn't it, which Everton fans will be watching with interest.

My 'guess' at what Silva will do (and that is all it is), not having any idea how Brighton play under their new manager, is that he won't repeat a back three as per the corresponding fixture last season, so that means a back four.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he immediately re-installed his captain, Coleman, in place of Sidibe.

I would hope he would be bold enough to retain the Gomes - Davies midfield pairing. It merits a longer run than a one-off game. But again, not knowing how Brighton plays, he may choose to 'bulk up' in midfield with a more defensive combo, depending on availability.

Sigurdsson could return for Iwobi. He may prefer Calvert-Lewin down the middle and switch Richarlison with Bernard dropping to the bench as Richie got no change down the middle from Duffy and Dunk last season.

Whatever he does, it will be revealing one way or another.

Ken Kneale
41 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:32:07
Steve, you really must read the book A fine account of a fine manager and as others have outlined, he could match the other managers where it mattered – on the pitch.

The 67-70 team played a brand of football unmatched in England at the time and with modern pitches and injury techniques could do so now in my view. Very very underrated by the media.

Steve Ferns
42 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:41:05
Gomes was fit and would have played for certain on Saturday. He had just been away with Portugal, though he was an unused substitute in both games.

The Schneiderlin omission is a strange one. I also hear it was for "family reasons" rather than injury. It's rude to pry, but that does not make sense. Morgan followed through on his offer to the grieving family and took them to the game as his guests. There is a picture of him on the pitch with them on the family's social media. If Morgan was kept out for "family reasons", then they only kept him out of the team, but not out of the stadium. If it was an excuse for him being dropped though, it would be madness to go with a kid who played the night before in his stead. Probably best to just put it down to injury, and move on.

Walcott and Bernard are favourites of Silva and he has gone on record in recent weeks about their performances in training. If you pick both, then that raises a question over Richarlison. Unlike some esteemed commenters on here, I think Richarlison is doing ok this season, and I would keep him in the side. I also think that Bernard is better wide and coming inside than trying to play through the congested middle. So, if you play Walcott and Bernard wide, then Richarlison comes into the striker question with Calvert-Lewin and Kean. I would go with the other two over Richarlison myself, but if you need to find a way to keep him in the side, then I fully understand it.

I think Iwobi for Sigurdsson was a "no-brainer". Sigurdsson's form has really dipped, I don't think anyone can argue with that. I'm not his biggest fan, but if my job was on the line, I would find it hard to leave him out. As he showed on Saturday, he can smash them in from anywhere, and he scored 14 last season. When we are struggling badly for goals, I can see why you would find it so hard to drop him.

I think we can say that Silva was forced into picking Gomes, Davies and Sidibe. However, if everyone is fit, Gomes is Silva's first choice, so it's not really fair to say he was forced to pick a favourite of his.

Walcott was selected for Man City, before going off very early and missing the last game with concussion (mandatory ban these days). So it was no surprise to see him back in the side. I think he showed why Silva wanted to pick him, and Silva said how good he has been in training.

We have to sort out those defensive frailties though, as everything was almost lost at the end, but for Pickford's save.

Did any note how West Ham changed things for playing us? They are a side that passes out from the back. Not against us. The stats show that we've won the ball in the opposition third the most. In other words, we are the hardest team to play out from the back against. Brighton also like to play out from the back. They are at home. I wonder if they will continue to do so or if they will make a change to stop us pressing them. If we press high up the pitch, then expect the Schneiderlin safety vale to be present. If we don't go for the high press, then Davies will probably keep his place alongside Gomes. I think we need to keep the same team.

Ken Kneale
43 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:45:57
I also agree on Shankly. He respected Everton away from the playing to the gallery and indeed was rightly critical of LFC for the way they snubbed him when he had effectively put them on the football map. He went to his grave feeling most aggrieved about such treatment.
Steve Ferns
44 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:48:50
Jay, I thought Gomes gave a captain's performance against West Ham. He is a quiet lad, yes. But he was talking during every stoppage and seemed to be conducting himself as you would expect a captain to do.

Coleman gets selected because of the armband, in my opinion, as his playing ability is in decline. I don't rate his leadership skills, as he does not seem to communicate enough with the others. There's more to being a captain than ranting and raving after mistakes.

The difference with someone like Gomes who seemed to be trying to make changes and doing the things I would like to see a captain do. (for example, one long conversation with Yerry Mina where he was gesticulating in a way that appeared to me about how he should be playing the ball out from the back). I'm not saying Gomes needs the armband, just we don't need Coleman.

Steve Ferns
45 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:49:41
Cheers Ken. Didn't see you on Saturday, it was great to chat with you at the Man City game though.
Bill Watson
46 Posted 21/10/2019 at 14:56:22
I agree with those who said the 1967-68 team played the best football of anything seen since then and this side grew to become the side that won the League at a canter in 1970.

I grew up near to Melwood and, in those days, you could just wander in and watch the training etc. Face to face Shankly was a really nice bloke and always had time to chat with us kids.

We often used to climb over the wall, in the evening, to have a kickaround with a plastic ball. Just 3 or 4 of us. One night, when there was a schoolboy match on, Algi, the groundsman, sneaked up on his Ariel Leader and caught us. He was escorting us out of the ground, in triumph, when Shankly came over and asked him what the problem was.

Algi: They're here every night, Mr Shankly."
Shankly: "What are they doing? Do they cause any damage?"
Algi: "No Mr Shankly, they kick that ball around."
Shankly, looking around: "Isn't that what we do here, Algi? Let them go."
Priceless!

Steve Ferns
47 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:03:33
Bill, it seemed your namesake was a decent guy. I always liked the stories about the local kids knocking on his door asking his wife if 65 year old Bill could come out to play, and she said he never said no. Didn't he finish his coaching career after retiring from the evil reds by working at Bellefield for free with our kids, on a when you feel like it basis?

Edit: found a good quote from Bill Shankly:

"I might add that I count Everton amongst the clubs who have welcomed me over the last few seasons. I have been received more warmly by Everton than I have been by Liverpool. It is scandalous and outrageous that I should have to write these things about the club I helped to build into what it is today, because if the situation had been reversed I would have invited people to games."

John Keating
48 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:04:37
Fully agree that Carey laid the foundations for Catterick - 1963 team still my favourite.

But I think Tommy Egglestone and then later Wilf Dixon are never given the credit they deserve for coaching the Catterick teams.

Catterick may well have had the vision and got the players in but I reckon those two coaches set them all up tactically and for sure day to day when Catterick was wherever he was hiding!

Steve Ferns
49 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:12:16
So what made Catterick great then, John? The hiding in his office, with his back to the training pitch whilst others coached and prepared the team is what I was told. Not in a "he was overrated" type way, but "that's just how he was" kind of way. Joe Royle said he was the greatest, and who can argue with Big Joe?

If he was the greatest, then what made him so? Was it simply the trophies? Is Roberto di Matteo a good manager because he won the Champions League with a side that others couldn't even get a tune out of? If he is a good manager, then why has he been sacked three times since and now can't get a job three years after his last one?

John Boon
50 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:13:47
John McFarlane (#33).. totally agree that Johnny Carey established a basis for future Everton managers to be successful. Fortunately, we do not have an ASDA, but we do have a "No Frills" which is of a similar ilk.

Personally,I don't think there is any specific way in which a successful manager should act on the sideline. However, he should be able to visibly show his approval when the team deserve it. Likewise, he should be able to reprimand a player – yes, even the so-called star of the team – when he is not showing desire or effort. I am sure that Silva has let Sigurdsson know that he needs to improve. In almost all cases this should be done privately. I don't think it helps any player to be screamed at from the touchline.

Aside from all that, I have been able to watch the game again and we played even better the second time. In many ways, it is somewhat pathetic that I have to watch a game twice in order to see enough wins. After four games of complete frustration, it is so relaxing to watch us win two games in a row – even if it was the same game!

Bill Watson
51 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:15:14
Steve; I think he left them after a player (Ray Kennedy?) was signed without his knowledge. The parting was quite acrimonious. He was banned from Anfield and Melwood.

He lived on the other side of the road to the houses which overlooked Bellfield and was invited to pop in whenever he wanted.

Unlike Melwood, Bellfield was a no-go area for kids. We'd wait for the players' coach to arrive and it had to stop on the road as the path into the ground was too small. We could chat with them and get autographs etc but we weren't allowed in.

We used to cycle around to Sandfield Park, on the other side, and sit on top of quite a high brick wall.

Both clubs used to bus the players in, fully kitted up. After training, at Melwood, they'd be given sandwiches sitting along benches in a wooden pavilion. I had many a freebie sarnie in there, lol!

John Keating
52 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:30:16
Steve it's difficult to put your finger on Catterick as then we didn't have the exposure and information available as now. Our only info came from a limited source and a bit like now the local papers were reluctant to print anything adverse about the Club.

Certainly at the time he was the complete opposite to Shankly. I reckon Shankly was one in a billion. Had we had him and Moores in tandem, my God history would have been written in Blue.

I think Catterick was very astute tactically and no doubt had a say in how we played but I think he was lucky with Egglestone and Dixon in that they were both fantastic trainers and coaches who were equally astute when it came to setting up players. Catterick was good at getting the players and staff he wanted.

I remember speaking to my hero, Alex Young, about him and he was honest enough to say that they saw him on matchday or if the telly people ever came to Bellfield; other than that... not much.

Like many businesses, if the guy at the top can get the people below him to perform, his life is so much easier!

Steve Ferns
53 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:37:15
John, he sounds more like a Director of Football who picked the side. It sounds exactly like the picture the Man Utd players paint of Alex Ferguson in his twilight years.

As you say, if the top guy has a great system and it works well, then life is easier. Clive Woodward was also a master at this style of management where his main skill was identifying those who can give the players what they need. So, he combined the best coaches and strategists and oversaw it all.

I hope Marcel Brands is similarly great at these things and is able to get everything in place, and successfully oversee it, and ultimately bring the glory days back to Everton.

Alan J Thompson
54 Posted 21/10/2019 at 15:47:55
He was calm, wasn't worried about losing his job but was concerned about players' jet lag and the must-win West Ham game without ever saying that injuries forced him to put out the side he did.

It will be interesting to see what he does next week seeing as there should be nobody on long-haul flights, only one week at Finch Farm, and possibly a couple returning from injury.

Ray Roche
55 Posted 21/10/2019 at 16:26:55
Bill@51

I thought Shankly lived in Bellefield Avenue at the back of Bellefield? He always said his house overlooked the training ground. Like you, as kids we'd cycle to Bellefield and use our bikes to stand on to get on the wall. We'd wait to get autographs at the entrance to the drive. The Groundsman had a terrier called Yogi. Little bastard. So was the dog.

John Keating
56 Posted 21/10/2019 at 16:28:21
Yes, probably right about Director of Football, Steve. Fingers crossed you're right about Brands… Maybe he can find us another Shankly!!??
Steve Ferns
57 Posted 21/10/2019 at 16:39:49
John, you won't be wanting another coach after a few more games like last Saturday.

I think Silva will have us up and running now, and I think that December's fixtures, ones we would dread under Moyes and be hoping for a point a game, will be the ones that get you back on side, as Silva is at his best against the best sides. Which is why I have so much faith in him. I think his ability to get at the top sides, which is how he made his name at Estoril, is what we were missing under Moyes. If Silva can get us back to that glass ceiling position as best of the rest, then he has the ability to get us to the next level.

But, of course, he has to rectify all the concerns that you and others have, and fix a number of issues first. I think those are easier to fix than the bigger step of actually beating the top sides with regularity. Who was the last Everton manager to beat all of Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal in one season? It was no fluke either.

Brian Harrison
58 Posted 21/10/2019 at 16:50:52
Ray

Shankly did live in Bellefield Avenue but I am not sure if it overlooked our training ground.

I heard that when we signed Johnny Morrisey from Liverpool, Shankly was on holiday, and he went ballistic when he found out. I believe he told the board in no uncertain terms you ever sell or sign anybody without telling me first and that will be me finished with this club.

So when years later he was informed by the then Chairman that he had spoken to Dennis Hill Wood and he had agreed a deal to sign Ray Kennedy and he would be arriving the following day for a medical. To which Shankly replied that he had told the board what would happen if they did this again and promptly resigned there and then.

Obviously realizing that he wasn't joking the Chairman promised to ring Arsenal and cancel the deal to which Shankly said it didn't matter what he did he was still resigning which he did. Even Bob Paisley begged Shankly to let them cancel the transfer and carry on as normal but he refused.

The reason he ended up training at Bellfield was because, after a few weeks after he resigned, he still went to Mellwood to keep himself fit. But the players kept coming over to him and talking to him, and understandably Paisley said this was disrupting his training and suggested to Shankly he was always welcome to train at Mellwood but could he do it after the players had gone home. Shankly decided to train at Bellefield instead.

Rob Halligan
59 Posted 21/10/2019 at 16:55:49
I have read a few posts which say Silva only made changes because they were enforced upon him. While I know this is true, who's to say he wouldn't have made those changes anyway?

Out of all the enforced changes, the only one I don't think he would have made would have been Sidibe for Seamus if Seamus had been available. I also think Delph might have played had he been fit.

Sigurdsson has been poor recently and so deserved to be benched. Calvert-Lewin always gives 100% but needs to score a few more league goals to increase his confidence, whilst I also think Schneiderlin would have been benched anyway had he been available.

Hopefully Silva keeps the same team for this Saturday, but I fear he may well bring Seamus back in.

David Pearl
60 Posted 21/10/2019 at 17:02:43
Rob,

I don't think he can change the team at all after that performance. The only negative for me was the panic when West Ham attacked, which is also a worry away from home. We have to also see what reaction there is if we concede first.

I'm not sure about the extent of the injury Mina picked up. He's really coming into his own now. If he plays, l will have my tenner on him scoring first, he's due a goal. Anyway, lots of points to play for so let's see what this streaky manager can do.

Kevin Latham
61 Posted 21/10/2019 at 17:15:41
I know many of us rightfully get wound up about the way the media fawn all over Liverpool and never seem to have much time for us, but I wonder if it started in the 60s when Catterick and Shankly were the managers?

Although I have nothing but respect for what the Catt did for us, we all know how moody and dour he was with the media, and didn't like to see us on TV. Shankly was heaven-sent for the media who he played up to and they lapped up his every word.

I've often wondered whether over the years media people have passed down to their apprentices or whatever stories of how accommodating Liverpool were as a club and we weren't. Even in the days of Dalglish who was the Catterick of his day in terms of misery, the press cut them some slack because of his ability as a player.

Does anyone agree or am I just delusional?

Mike Doyle
62 Posted 21/10/2019 at 17:21:59
Brian @58,

As I recall, it Bellefield Avenue was the road that lead up to the entrance of our former training ground. It overlooked what used to be called the Barnfield Drive football pitches. Don't think it overlooked the ground but was certainly very close – just a very short walk.

Even when I was a youngster, there used to be stories about Shankly looking over the fence/spying etc... Mick Lyons told us this was complete nonsense – Shankly simply walked in as he was a regular visitor, popular with the players and staff (many of whom he'd known for years).

With regard to Shankly staying away from Melwood, the only other point of detail I recall was a suggestion that the players continued to refer to him as "boss" which probably didn't help the Liverpool management team after his departure. I didn't know the Ray Kennedy signing was the straw that broke the camel's back though.

I saw Shankly as a spectator in the Main Stand at Goodison Park a few times in the seasons after he left. The thing that struck me even at a young age was the level of respect shown by the blues sitting around him. Good to see a proper football man given the respect he deserved.

Michael Long
63 Posted 21/10/2019 at 17:44:15
As much as Saturday was a big win for us and a excellent display. Silva is still a man in the red right now. It's okay beating West Ham at home one week, then lose to Brighton a week later shows the inconsistency at the club and the tactics of the manager.

Do I think Silva is the man to take us forward? No, I don't. Hope am wrong on that bit. But he picked the best and quickest 11 on Saturday and it worked. We have to do the same on Saturday v Brighton.

Simple as: Coleman, Delph, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin DO NOT start on Saturday. Keep the same team, gonna be slightly harder than last Saturday (due to us being away from home) but keep the intensity.

I hate to use them as an example but I want Everton to be like Liverpool away from home, where they treat the game like they're at Anfield. Roll your sleeves up and get into them from the first whistle. But we cave in far too easily. Just hope this win gives the club the boost and confidence it needs going into the rest of the season.

As for Silva, he needs to realise he is still at this moment unpopular with the fans. So, somewhere down the line, he has fight his stubbornness and play players who are quick and direct rather passing sideways and back. Another huge game for him and for the club this weekend.

Hopefully onwards and upwards now... for once.

Ray Roche
64 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:07:32
Brian @58.

I knew about the Johnny Morrissey story but didn't realise it was over Kennedy that he resigned. Kennedy had a sad time since he finished playing, having been diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease. His entry in Wikipedia is sad and thought-provoking.

John Keating
65 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:10:15
Kevin 61

I fully agree regarding Shankly, Catterick and the media. Shankly joining the cousins was a perfect storm for them.

I remember when he joined LFC as a Club was a disaster, team, infrastructure, horrendous training facilities, players, everything.
Shankly started at Melwood and gutted the place, got rid of all the players – I think Paisley, Rueben Bennet and Fagan were there when he joined?? and piecemeal transformed the Club.

He immediately got the supporters and media onside. Being an ordinary guy himself, relating to the locals was easy for him. Once the supporters and media were onside and the first trophy came in that was it and it's continued since.

Had Catterick been more media-friendly, who knows how we would have fared. Both the 63 and 70's teams never got the coverage they deserved. As regards the Kendall glory years, I think that's only recognised on the blue half of Merseyside!!

Ray Roche
66 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:16:13
John,

"As regards the Kendall glory years, I think that's only recognised on the blue half of Merseyside!!"

BT Sport are advertising a programme, "The Team Of The Eighties". Guess who?

Crystal effin Palace! CRYSTAL PALACE!!! Team of the eighties! I give up.

Dermot Byrne
67 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:17:10
Michael:

"It's okay beating West Ham at home one week, then lose to Brighton a week later shows the inconsistency at the club."

Shit, man. There is pessimism but this takes the biscuit.

Colin Metcalfe
68 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:17:19
Great result Saturday and a much needed confidence booster for the whole squad, I posted recently that we need to hold our nerve and to stick with Silva, it's far too early in the season for knee-jerk reactions – just look at Watford..

I am firmly in Silva's corner and believe he will get it right and has proved he is not afraid to ring the changes, hope to god he doesn't read TW!!

A special mention also for Yerry who, for me, has been the standout performer this season.

Kieran Kinsella
69 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:25:56
Steve

The exact manager role seems to vary a lot. For example, I read Michael Owen complaining that training under Big Sam was tedious. He said he presided over sessions and constantly interrupted to explain where people should stand in specific scenarios etc.

On the other hand, Kevin Mirallas claims Allardyce never took training sessions. My mate did the FIFA B license and said the exam includes freezing shots of real games at say one end of the field, and asking the coach how and where the goalkeeper should be standing, angled etc at that exact moment at the other end of the field.

I read that Wenger never took training either. So where the coaches just getting players fit while Wenger developed tactics? Or did Wenger (and maybe Catterick) instruct coaches on how to prepare the players tactically while they took care of other matters?

Mark Tanton
70 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:30:56
The real test now is how many players walk back into the side. Coleman, for instance, is a total pedestrian. His decline has been alarming and prolonged.
John Keating
71 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:36:15
Ray,

You couldn't make that up! Well, actually you could. Thing is, people will believe it.

Kevin Latham
72 Posted 21/10/2019 at 18:47:01
John (65), although Silva isn't hostile to journos or TV, I can see 60s history repeating itself terms of the personalities of the current managers, unfortunately.
Mike Doyle
73 Posted 21/10/2019 at 19:27:31
Ray @66, this “team of the 80s” tag was actually a late 1970s term that seemed linked to media-friendly Malcolm Allison and the young teams he started to develop at Crystal Palace and briefly Man City.

I don't recall much about the Palace side but, as a student in Manchester, I watched City quite often. They had a nucleus of young players (Ray Ranson, Nicky Reid, Steve Mackenzie and the late Tommy Caron – to make but 4) but it seemed to fall apart after they lost the 1981 FA Cup Final to Spurs.

Mike Gaynes
74 Posted 21/10/2019 at 19:37:10
Mark #70, did you miss the Man City game? Seamus was our MotM, no contest. Pedestrian? Not hardly.

However, I do believe Sidibe should start this weekend based on his performance Saturday.

Ray Roche
75 Posted 21/10/2019 at 19:38:54
Mike,

I wasn't aware of the Allison connection but still! Maybe they could address the balance and do one of the real Team Of The Eighties.

Jay Harris
76 Posted 21/10/2019 at 19:41:37
Jimmy Gabriel's sister used to work for me and she told me he hated Catterick because he was like a sergeant major.

If a player said he was injured he would tell them to go out there and earn their pay.

He must have had something though because we were absolutely brilliant under him.

Does anybody else see a likeness to Lois Suarez in the demented Klipetty's demeanour and antics. I am sure if Rainhill was still open, he would be a candidate.

Just another note on Shankly. He rang the "Echo" (before it was the red echo) and told them not to send their Journalist to the next game as he had revoked his press pass because he gave the RS a bad report. That was the start of the gushing media praise that the Dark Side get.

Jay Harris
77 Posted 21/10/2019 at 19:44:32
Mike, I always thought Allisson rode on the back of the great Joe Mercer and did not do as well when Mercer had gone.
Bill Gall
78 Posted 21/10/2019 at 19:45:43
Kevin # 61,

Yes, Catterick did not have much time for the media, and I can't imagine what would happen if Skye Sports would have been controlling the game, as they do today.

I met Catterick on a couple of occasions when he was a guest at the Liverpool and District Sunday League end of the year presentations at the Grafton Ballroom. He talked with me for a while and although he didn't remember my name the following year he did say he spoke with me the last time he came, and he spoke to me for about 10 mins about being the registration secretary for the league.

From the rest of the people who were there, they all said how pleasant he was and easy to talk to, so I guess you were ok if you were not from the media.

John McFarlane Snr
79 Posted 21/10/2019 at 19:46:35
Hi Ray [77],

I may be wrong (not for the first time, I may add) but my recollection is that it was a prediction that didn't materialise.

Christy Ring
80 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:03:30
Mark @70,

I think you better have a reality check. I can see you're not a Coleman fan, but to say he's a total pedestrian, how many games have you watched?

I do agree Sidibe should keep his place against Brighton, has to be the same 11.

Anthony Jones
81 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:21:38
Sorry, but there is no reflection here. No self appraisal. Piss off Marco.
Steve Pickering
82 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:24:31
I just hope Silva keeps the same starting eleven and playing style on Saturday and hope Mina is fit.
Brent Stephens
83 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:28:10
Yes Mina I hope stays fit. Very good game again at the weekend. Fast becoming a favourite.
Peter Mills
85 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:36:36
Wouldn't it be great if a manager just spoke the truth?

“What I was trying to do by picking A and B was get at the opposition down their left flank and get some early crosses in. They did this a couple of times but our centre forward wasn't quick enough, and missed them. I'm going to have a chat with him, see if we can change that.”

“The ref got it right. Our player Z was stupid, he was already on a daft yellow for kicking the ball away, so he was always going to be sent off for that. He's going to get a big fine. He's a good lad, but a bit thick at times.”

“I chose a formation to thwart the opposition. It didn't work. It was a bad idea.”

That's how I'm going to be during my month in charge.

Mark Tanton
86 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:38:44
Coleman is literally pedestrian, playing walking football. I accept he still has his moments but he is struggling to get up and down the pitch and he is an attacking dead-end sadly, which is obviously a tragic decline.
Brent Stephens
87 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:38:53
Peter #89. When do you start?
Mike Doyle
88 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:50:35
Jay. You are correct. Malcolm Allison's greatest coaching success was as assistant to Joe Mercer in the mid-60s.

However he was certainly one of the most media-friendly/savvy managers of his era and adept at keeping himself in the spotlight. Who can forget the fedora and cigar!

Christy Ring
89 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:50:44
Mike @75,

Allison as Man City manager in '79 lasted for only 1 year, he spent a transfer record at the time on Steve Daley, a total disaster, and big money on Mike Robinson, Swale sacked him, and brought in John Bond. He did have a young promising team at Palace, I think Gerry Francis was captain.

John @33,

Great point about Johnny Carey, so unlucky, and laid the foundation for Catterick, who for a manager, with a hands-off approach, was unbelievable. Howard was years ahead of his time, we'll never know what he could have achieved because of the Heysel.

Peter Mills
90 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:51:45
I've been waiting for the phone call for a week or two, Brent #91. Saturday was tough, I jumped up when Siggi scored then I realised my pension had been delayed a little longer.
Brent Stephens
91 Posted 21/10/2019 at 20:57:50
Peter, if you need an assistant, I could stand on the sidelines doing nothing like Duncan.
Mike Gaynes
92 Posted 21/10/2019 at 21:44:45
Mark #86, "struggling to get up and down the pitch"??? What the heck are you smoking, mate?

Nobody on this club gets from one end to the other better than Seamus. He has his struggles. That ain't one of them.

Pete #85, you gotta hire me as your PR guy. A month is all you'd last talking like that in the modern game.

John Davies
93 Posted 21/10/2019 at 21:48:51
“I was really calm before the game and during the week,” he explained, “because I know what I'm doing".

Oh really? So what were you doing the four games before Saturday? Does he expect anyone with ounce of intelligence to believe his arrogant, insulting garbage? Wow, this guy winds me up!!

Albert Perkins
94 Posted 21/10/2019 at 22:13:32
So happy with the weekend result. Before the game I asked for more through balls on goal and not just shooting on sight, but bringing the ball back and finding a more open shot. I got exactly what I asked for. For the first goal I got both suggestions, although I was hoping for a first time shot into the net, and for the second I got the pull back and shot for a goal. Players seemed to be showing for the through ball more.

Also happy for Tom and Alex who played with such intensity and speed that mistakes were bound to happen. I'm happy with misplaced balls now and then if the odd ones find the forwards and lead to goals. Have to wonder what they do in shooting practice though. Suppose it's a confidence thing.

I think we have to stick with Silva at least till the end of the season. Hoping he makes it his job for some time. Also I don't see a reasonable replacement available. For Moyes read Big Sam.

Christy Ring
95 Posted 21/10/2019 at 22:14:58
Mark @86,

'Struggling up and down the pitch' – try SpecSavers. Have a look back against Man City, we lost possession in the City area, and they caught us on the break. Watch Seamus passing out Delph on the way back??

Daniel Thomas
96 Posted 21/10/2019 at 22:51:48
Completely agree with Mark.

Seamus used to fly up and down that right side. Unfortunately, he’s lost a yard of pace and that can make the world of difference in this league.

I can name at least 10 Premier League right backs who get up and down that flank a lot better than him nowadays.

Let’s give Sidibé an extended run of games to see if the consistency is there.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

97 Posted 21/10/2019 at 23:03:25
Talking of right backs, I'm surprised the editors haven't put up the following story and interview with Jonjoe Kenny and how the fans enjoy him and how he enjoys Germany and is growing not just as a player, but a person too.

Link

Reassuring to read at the end his long term ambition remains breaking into Everton's first team.

Worth a read.

Hugh Jenkins
98 Posted 21/10/2019 at 23:09:47
As we all know, football is a game that is rife with cliches and superstitions.

A phaser that fits both in this instance and one Marco will do well to adhere to is"You don't change a winning team" ( unless of course forced to by injuries or suspensions)

Let's hope that this is one that Marco is familiar with.

Jamie Crowley
99 Posted 21/10/2019 at 23:35:12
Bill back @ 46 -

That's a fantastic story! Brilliant.

Jerome Shields
100 Posted 22/10/2019 at 00:07:34
I remember Everton. winning the league in 1970.

That was the time of players' cards, which everyone collected at school, and bartered over, a bit like the Pokemon craze.

Information on Everton was from Match of the Day and Shoot magazine. Everton were a big team and all the matches where competitive and they played to the final whistle.

I started supporting them in 1967, because Blue was my lucky colour and my cousin was a fanatic fan and still is today.

I always look back on it and think of how quietly they won the League, with no fuss. I knew very little about Harry Catterick. He was just someone who sat in the dugout.

Bill Watson
101 Posted 21/10/2019 at 00:11:45
Ray; yes, Shankly lived in Bellefield Cresent but his house didn't overlook the ground. It was on the other side of the road (facing the semis backing onto the ground).

I think the groundsman lived on site and, yes, he was a right bastard, as was his dog, lol.

Everton signed Morrisey, for a knockdown £10k, when Shankly was on holiday and he wasn't too pleased, to put it mildly. The Kennedy one (if it was him) was over a decade later. I'd heard he was in very poor health.

Ray, did you ever go to Melwood back in those days? It was like chalk and cheese both for the facilities, which at Melwood was just two old wooden pavilions, and the access to the players. It was only kids, too.

I go past Melwood, now, and it has high security all around and the entrance is diagonally opposite, in Bevans Lane. Their tourist fans can be seen standing on wheelie bins trying to take selfies over the wall.

They've just sold it so they won't be there much longer.


Dave Abrahams
102 Posted 21/10/2019 at 00:29:09
Regarding Shankly, when he was manager during the period from 1966 to 1973 when Liverpool FC never won a domestic honour, Peter Robinson, the Liverpool secretary at the time, said he regularly got letters from Liverpool fans saying he should be replaced. One Liverpool fan, who was a regular writer to The Echo said it was time for him to go, I should remember his name, he was from Birkenhead. When Shankly passed away, the same fan called him ‘Our Saviour' – hypocrisy at it's best.

Never mind the personalities of the two managers, Catterick and Shankly were both very good at their jobs and Harry Catterick was every bit as good as Bill Shankly, and was successful at two first division clubs, Everton and Sheffield Wednesday who were runners up to the fantastic Spurs team at that time. Shankly was manager at four different clubs and only had success at one.

I think Shankly threatened to resign from Liverpool on quite a few occasions but T V Williams, the chairman always persuaded him to stay. Shankly played five a side football at the Vernon Sangster Stadium at Stanley Park, after he resigned from Liverpool, with Johnny Morrissey and a few people I know, and he would never discuss the reason why he left Liverpool.

Derek Thomas
103 Posted 22/10/2019 at 01:44:23
Back about this time of the year in 1969, when we were running away with the league... much like the situation now? The BBC, in its mid-week guise of Sports Night with Coleman, did an in-depth thing on Everton. They got Harry to speak at length on how we played, they even had him talk them through clips of action, highlighting this, pointing out that – complete autopsy.

To be honest, I think Harry got seduced by the glamour and attention and for him ran off at the mouth something wicked... I wouldn't put it past them to use the old... "Now we're off the air, what about this player and that player?" etc. Because when it went to air Catterick didn't comment but reportedly went apeshit.

This was why he banned the BBC and why there is little or no footage of 69-70... but you can't move for Liverpool stuff and pundits now. It all started there. Harry banned them, Shankly welcomed them and always had a witty comment.

Anyways, he thought he'd given away some of our moves and tactics. The interview ended up coming out as a complete hatchet job on how Sandy Brown was the weakest link in the team... "Yes Mr Catterick, the camera's off now." ... oldest trick in the book. Sandy's confidence went, add in the own goal. Which is why Keith Newton was signed over Christmas.

Am I the only one that remembers that Sports Night with Coleman interview?

Jason Leung
104 Posted 22/10/2019 at 02:01:04
Will Silva name an unchanged side next week? Or will he go back to the tried, tested and failed starting team with Siggy, Sideways Schneiderlin and Coleman? Thoughts?
Alan J Thompson
105 Posted 22/10/2019 at 03:56:52
It was said that Shankly introduced the idea of making a big money signing at the end of each season as most of the money was being lost in tax.

At the time of his resignation, a story did the rounds that he resigned as the players all received bonuses for winning things but Shankly was refused a similar bonus. I was told that the source was somebody employed at Anfield but who it was, and if it was right, I don't know.

Kevin Latham
106 Posted 22/10/2019 at 06:12:26
Derek (103),

I'm not sure if it was the same interview you mention (he didn't do many after all!) but the one I'm thinking of was the week of the Cup 3rd round just before we played Sheffield United away in 1970. I think they were in Division 2 but I may be wrong on that.

Anyway, Harry said that Gordon West should do better with crossed balls and, on the Saturday, Utd scored 2 goals from crosses after we were 1-0 up! Alan Woodward was their star winger at the time. It was my first visit to Bramall Lane and I was amazed that one side of the ground was completely open as they also played cricket there.

The good news was that we won the league that year though. And as a postscript, our fans started calling Westy ‘Dracula' as they said he was afraid of crosses!

Peter Mills
107 Posted 22/10/2019 at 06:54:47
Brent #91, Mike #92, I don't want too many inroads being made into the £400k I will pick up for my month's labour.

Gaynes, you used the word “hire”, so I'm afraid you're out. Stephens, you will be on performance-related pay so, given the way that particular post has operated so far, my future should be pretty financially secure.

Eric Myles
108 Posted 22/10/2019 at 06:56:49
Bill #51, in the days I went to hang out at Bellefield, all the players arrived in their own cars. Alan Ball drove a Ford Anglia! Johnny Morrissey had one of the first Ford Capri 3.0L and Labone and West always travelled together in one of those old 'sit up and beg' Rovers, a 350 I think.

Labone and West always gave autographs to the kids that were there at 9 am when they arrived but not the lazy arses who turned up only at 1 pm when they were leaving.

Tony Hill
109 Posted 22/10/2019 at 07:25:13
Eric @108, you used to see some of them in the chippy on Eaton Road.
Ray Roche
110 Posted 22/10/2019 at 08:15:29
Bill @101

No, I never went to Melwood. I sometimes go down Eaton Road now on my way to Goodison if I have visited my sister in Bowring Park or played golf with my brother at West Derby Golf Club. It's changed a bit!

Alan McGuffog
111 Posted 22/10/2019 at 08:19:46
Derek, I don't recall the Sportsnight interview.

I cringe every time I see that bloody own-goal in that game. Sandy was never the most gifted footballer but he was a great servant to the club. If my memory serves correctly, Newton missed most of the run-in to the title due to injury and Sandy stepped up to the plate in admirable fashion.

Another unsung hero of 69/70 Was Tommy Jackson of course. But as Brian Labone once said, tongue in cheek, it was the first time a three-man side had won the league

Martin Berry
112 Posted 22/10/2019 at 08:43:16
Let's hope Silva is "calm" enough to start with the same starting eleven against West Ham for the next game, rather than slipping back to the failing previous line-ups?
James Hill
113 Posted 22/10/2019 at 09:22:01
Gosh mentioning Silva along side some the greats...

I don't think Catterick, Shankly, et al got anyone relegated.

Brent Stephens
114 Posted 22/10/2019 at 09:31:27
Jay #97 - good article that. Interesting the way Kenny has "grown" by having to do certain things for himself. He sounds a very happy lad playing good football appreciated by his blue new fans.

COYB and COYB.

Stan Schofield
115 Posted 22/10/2019 at 09:50:35
Regarding the media bias towards Liverpool, and the history of it, I believe the stuff above about how Shankley and Catterick influenced it is only part of the story.

In the late 60s and early 70s I don't recall any particular bias, and indeed the BBC on MotD highlighted how great our football was on a number of occasions. In particular, I recall Kenneth Wolstenholme extolling the School of Science during one of our brilliant moves through midfield during the first game after we'd won the title in 1970.

I believe the bias towards Liverpool, like the bias towards Man Utd, arose mainly from the number of trophies they'd won prior to the Premier League being set up. That trophy success led to the media's widespread use of their former players and hence quite a bit of bias during post-match analysis.

I also believe that, although we haven't won so much in terms of quantity, the sheer quality of the 60s sides put us on a pedestal. The football world generally recognised how good we were, to a point where it's conceivable that if the entire Everton side from 69-70 had been chosen as the England side in Mexico 1970, few people would have been surprised (but England never did such sensible things, hence their mediocrity). The world missed what would likely have been a great spectacle of football, namely Brazil vs 'Everton' in Mexico.

The fact that we were so good in quality, such pure but effective football, probably led many reds to want to knock us off the pedestal more so than from the usual blue - red rivalry. I think they got pissed off with people saying how great we were. I certainly experienced it directly, with reds getting fed up listening to how great our Holy Trinity was. I recall times in derby games at Anfield, stood on the Kop with red mates, where the Kop was basically silenced by the quality of our football.

That shadow of Everton's superiority in the 60s still hangs over Liverpool, no matter how many trophies they've won quantitatively. That's set in stone now, to an extent that they are incapable (not just unwilling) to give credit where it is due to Everton.

Of course, that same superiority from the 60s makes it particularly hard for Evertonians of my vintage to see some of the mediocre sides since then, the mid-80s being an oasis in that desert. It's hard for any Evertonian these days, and I feel for younger supporters who've never seen a great Everton side, but it's especially stark for older supporters who grew up seeing greatness.

Steve Ferns
116 Posted 22/10/2019 at 10:20:07
Thanks for all the stuff on Catterick and Shankly. Interesting to read all of that.

Something that may be of interest to you guys, and to bring it back to the subject of the article, did anyone see Pellegrini has been upsetting the West Ham fans with his post-match comments?

He said:

"If I remember the last game we played here in this stadium, we came in the same position as Everton were before the game, losing four games in a row, so that is something that allowed them to demand more from their players and that's what they did.

“When you are in the situation that Everton found themselves in, maybe you have more energy. In this same stadium, we came to play them after four defeats and we beat them 3-1. It seemed our team ran double them, but today was different and they ran as if every ball was the last one of their lives and we couldn't be able to try to play in a different way and find the same level as them.”

Personally, I think he makes sense. But the West Ham fans are going nuts about it on Twitter. They think he's effectively saying that they couldn't win because our boys wanted it more because they were on a losing streak, and so his comments are idiotic and make him look like the clown he is.

Kevin Latham
117 Posted 22/10/2019 at 10:24:45
Excellent post, Stan @ 115.
Steve Ferns
118 Posted 22/10/2019 at 11:00:17
Stan, the greatest Everton side of my adult life was the Martinez side that got 72 points. If I factor in my teenage years, then that only includes the likes of Big Joe's cup winning side, so I'd still put the 72 point side above them, as much as I loved watching Limpar and Kanchelskis (although they rarely started the same game).

I did go the game in the '80s, and I did start to watch the blues just before they embarked on the period of glory, but given that Kendall had left before my 10th birthday, I don't really remember much, and so I don't really count myself as having enjoyed watching that side. My abiding childhood memories are of Champions in rapid decline.

I think it's harder to have been close to enjoying watching great teams, to be able to have childhood heroes like Andy Gray, Graham Sharp, and Adrian Heath and then go to the likes of Cottee and then end up with the likes of Mikel Madar up top as your childhood ends. I'd much rather have been in your shoes Stan as at least you can remember the greats.

Tony Abrahams
119 Posted 22/10/2019 at 11:15:49
Everton were very good to watch during that first season Martinez, was in charge of the blues, Steve, which had me questioning why it all went so badly wrong.

Over-coached? Neglected defence? My own personal thoughts were that the team became that big on conserving energy, they couldn't build up any momentum to take into the next game, and this began to really agitate the crowd?

Maybe he thought his squad wasn't big enough to compete on all fronts, but the football went backwards, and so did Roberto, with the biggest contradiction to what I'm saying, is when he brought a centre-forward on for a midfielder to protect a two-goal lead, even though we were down to ten men at home to West Ham, and this idiotic ploy completely backfired.

Too clever for his own good. Or was he never really good enough in the first place?

Brian Harrison
120 Posted 22/10/2019 at 11:27:11
I consider myself to be one of the lucky ones as being old enough to have watched us win leagues and cups and even a European trophy. But I have 2 sons who go to the game and also a grandson, and I wonder whether they will ever see the Blues win the league.

When you think of all the iconic clubs in England, which at one time we were amongst that elite but sadly no longer. Success is trying to qualify for a Champions League place – something we haven't done since the 70s... how bad is that?

If winning the Champions League (or as it was known, the European Cup) is a measure of a club, then we are behind Nottingham Forest, who won it twice, and Aston Villa?

Steve Ferns
121 Posted 22/10/2019 at 11:46:37
Tony, I think the team grew monumentally with belief that they could win games that Moyes said they couldn't. They enjoyed playing for Martinez and began to believe in him. Then we started missing chances and losing games narrowly and that belief went. But that's the simplistic version, there was also the injury to McCarthy and others, the decline of Barry, the decline of Moyes's defence (particularly Distin), and so on.

Whether Martinez is a good coach or manager or not, will be more evident after his next job. He's done alright with Belgium and will get another chance with a decent job as a result. If he does well there then it good be argued he is decent, but if he flops again, then you could say he is an erratic manager who is capable of winning the Cup with Wigan and getting 72 points with Everton, and getting Belgium into their first World Cup Semi-Final, but also getting relegated with Wigan and struggling to the sack with Everton.

Stan Schofield
122 Posted 22/10/2019 at 11:48:43
Steve@118: I hope you do see greatness from Everton. I believe you will, and that it might well be under Silva. There was enough quality on show last Saturday, and glimpses of it last season, to give belief to add to the hope.

Just to add to my post@115. During our period of greatness, it was always known that the big difference between Everton and Liverpool was the quality of our football. We played great football, whilst Shankley developed Liverpool on a bed of fitness. That rankled, and still rankles, with them. It's similar now, in the difference between them and Man City. Man City are the present-day equivalent of us in the 60s. City's superiority in quality irritates Liverpool.

Brent Stephens
123 Posted 22/10/2019 at 11:51:18
Brian #120,

My first taste of success with Everton was when I watched us win the league in 1963 and was at the FA Cup Final hot on the heels of that. And of course we've had trophies since then. Great memories but it all feels like history (you know) and these days feel empty.

For all our previous trophies they are just history to me (just like the last rs league trophy is just history). I guess your sons feel even less attachment to the distant history.

My greatest thrills in recent years have been to watch the U23s and their title wins!

Steve Ferns
124 Posted 22/10/2019 at 12:43:48
I hope so too, Stan!

Brent, my Dad always used to say to me, in recent years, that Everton is not the same. He always went on about who he played with at school and who he played against and could reel off a load of internationals. My uncles could do the same.

I used to say that things aren't done yet as I still played against the likes of Michael Branch and Dom Matteo, and David Dunn. We've also had a succession of youth players come through who went on to play for England. But it's obviously nothing like my Dad's day (the '60s).

So, I also love to watch the youth team, because that seems like pure Everton. Mostly local lads in Royal Blue competing against the best from the rest of the country.

Brexit will change football. Unless the Freedom of Movement of Workers (FMW) carries on, the rule book will need to be re-written. The FA have an opportunity to get the Premier League to comply with something to give more opportunity to our young players. I fear though, money will win, and something will be done to allow the present system to continue, because whilst without FMW Europeans will need a work permit, any footballer in the Premier League will get one. The Home Office will give a fancy London restaurant a work permit to bring in a top chef from Brazil, for example. It's the FA who came up with our current system (designed before FMW with the intention of making the Premier League be full of British players).

Paul Kelly
125 Posted 22/10/2019 at 13:15:59
Steve, you mention David Dunn. Met him whilst working abroad In Greece. Top, top lad, went out of his way to say hello to me and my mates, proper down to earth. Him and his mates won the weekly five-a-side competition, needless to say.

Had a bevvy with Stephen Hughes too, he bought us a drink after showing him my Everton tattoo, spoke for ages; he also made his way through the crowd to have a chat with us a few nights later in a different club. Good lad... met a few others too, but them too were ace.

Ray Roche
126 Posted 22/10/2019 at 13:21:26
Steve @121

The most damning part in Roberto's decline were the comments from Osman, I think, that Martinez's hardest training sessions were like Moyes easy warm down sessions. We weren't fit.

Steve Ferns
127 Posted 22/10/2019 at 13:24:53
I never really spoke to him, Paul, but he seemed pleasant enough.
Martin Nicholls
128 Posted 22/10/2019 at 13:27:16
John Mac #79 – you're not wrong about that "team of the 80's" phrase – it was indeed a prediction about Crystal Palace, captained as Christy #89 says, by Gerry Francis.

Apart from the great teams he created, one thing we should forever be grateful to Catterick for, is bringing the great Howard Kendall to Goodison Park – had he not played for us, there's every chance he wouldn't have managed us either!

Brent Stephens
129 Posted 22/10/2019 at 13:59:40
Steve #124. Another downside of Brexit then. Nothing in it for us on this issue of bringing young players through.
Tony Abrahams
130 Posted 22/10/2019 at 14:00:05
If Man City's superior quality irritates Liverpudlians Stan, then their incessant work-rate irritates me, because hard work is definitely the way forward, and it's the thing I want to see off an Everton team more than anything else.

Everton probably wasted more good opportunities on Saturday than they have all season but, once a team is working hard, they will always make more chances, especially if they believe in themselves — and after thinking how many times they didn't have to rush things because their opponents couldn't live with their intensity.

Martin Berry
131 Posted 22/10/2019 at 14:12:08
Martinez, nice bloke, talked the talk but his medical staff left because of his methods, ie, the team was not fit or drilled properly in defence, hence all those hamstring injuries and conceded goals from incoming crosses – or have some of you forgotten?

Osman was spot on – Martinez was lucky to inherit and fit well-drilled outfit from Moyes.

Paul Jeronovich
132 Posted 22/10/2019 at 14:48:25
Marco's calm because – no matter what happens – his wallet will get fatter. Win-win for him.
Steve Ferns
133 Posted 22/10/2019 at 18:49:36
Did any of you actually watch Silva's pre-match press conference for the West Ham game last Friday? I didn't bother, but I watched it back and was amazed to see just how calm and confident, almost happy he seemed. This might just be his best press conference since he took the job. Under pressure and coming across well. I liked that he said that to be under pressure at Everton meant it was a big club with ambition. I also liked that he said it was a privilege to be a football manager or player doing what you enjoy so it cannot really be pressure. Check it out: Press-Conference

Also, did you see the interview with Roberto Jiménez prior to the game? It's on the West Ham website. Roberto was Silva's keeper at Olympiacos and had a few nice things to say about him: Link

Stan Schofield
134 Posted 22/10/2019 at 19:16:38
Tony@130: The great Everton sides also worked hard, but we were best primarily because we played other teams off the park by sheer quality of football. Yes, we want a big work rate like Liverpool, but personally I also want to be entertained by high quality football, like we did at our best and like City do now.

I believe we have more quality than Liverpool in a number of areas, like the midfield, which was evidenced last season. Klopp has them organised and working hard. We also need to be organised and working hard, that way the quality we have will have maximum effect.

Regarding Silva being calm (the subject of the thread), I would hope he is calm regardless of the predicament. Lacking calmness achieves nothing, whilst calmness comes with professionalism. If he believes he knows what he's doing, that's a good thing, since we wouldn't want to see someone being paid what he's paid if he didn't believe he knew what he was doing.

Brent Stephens
135 Posted 22/10/2019 at 19:23:04
Steve, interesting that he dodged the question on racism and whether he'd bring the team off if there were racist "contributions" from the crowd.
Paul Burns
136 Posted 22/10/2019 at 19:39:06
Brian Harrison (120) we qualified for the European Cup in 1985 and 1987, not the 1970s, and were not allowed to play because of offences that had nothing to do with us but were deliberately dragged into.
Steve Ferns
137 Posted 22/10/2019 at 19:39:40
I think he wanted to talk about Everton rather than racism.
Stan Schofield
138 Posted 22/10/2019 at 20:15:07
If we were playing well I would hope he wouldn't bring the team off if there were racist contributions from the crowd! In contrast, if we were playing badly, bringing the team off could be a good thing.

Best keep actions on the field to a minimum, and maximise actions off the field, in response to any politics. Sport and politics form bad chemistry together.

Steve Ferns
139 Posted 22/10/2019 at 20:53:42
Everton behind the scenes

It’s only a snapshot so can’t jump to any conclusions on a split second but interesting to see how the players interact and see who the leaders are.

Ray Atherton
140 Posted 22/10/2019 at 22:02:27
Dave Abrahams

That loon from over from Birkenhead was always
writing to a lot of newspapers, about the rs. His name
was Griffiths.

Trevor Peers
141 Posted 22/10/2019 at 22:34:39
It will be interesting to see how calm Silva is before, during and after the Brighton game. He has spat the dummy out at most of our away games since becoming manager.
Andy Crooks
142 Posted 22/10/2019 at 23:04:20
Steve, I think it is awful that the best Everton team you have seen was the Martinez team or the Martinez - Moyes team. I admire your views on most things Everton but not on this one.

Martinez relegated Wigan through vanity and stubornness. He jumped ship and, given time, I believe he would have relegated us. Belgium with a proper coach would have won the world cup. He is utterly useless, the worst coach in our history.

I accept that some may disagree and offer up Allardyce. Fair point. However, I am convinced that Allardyce would have saved Wigan. Martinez destroyed that club and Kenwright thought "He's the man for us".

Ash Moore
143 Posted 22/10/2019 at 23:51:03
Not sure that is the best team he's watched, Andy. I'm a few years younger than Steve and I remember us winning the league in ‘87 as well as blowing the double in ‘86.

Think it might be a bit of attention seeking to be honest.

Steve Ferns
144 Posted 22/10/2019 at 23:51:54
I disagree on Martinez, Andy. As for the worst manager we’ve ever had, it was clearly Mike Walker. Sam Allardyce was vile, but he knew what he was doing. Walker has no redeeming features.
Ray Roche
145 Posted 23/10/2019 at 08:57:25
The worst? Walker. By a country mile.
Ray Roche
146 Posted 23/10/2019 at 08:57:25
The worst? Walker. By a country mile.
Dave Abrahams
147 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:21:07
Ray (145), agree with your choice there Ray, I remember arguing with Barry Horne coming down the steps of the Upper Bullens Stand about the merits of Mike Walker, Barry was all for giving him time, Barry I said he won’t last ‘til Chrstmas, I was far too generous.

While he was here, at one stage he said he got loads of letters off Everton fans and said he put them straight into the bin. When he was sacked he said he had received plenty of letters off Everton fans sympathising with him over his dismissal, funny how he read the second lot of letters and not the first lot.

Ray Roche
148 Posted 23/10/2019 at 09:41:51
Dave, he was clueless. He got lucky at Norwich when all the planets aligned for him but he was so far out of his depth at Everton. He was too busy getting an artificial suntan to impress the “ladies”.

Total waste of space.

Paul A Smith
149 Posted 23/10/2019 at 14:58:56
Brent 91, Ferguson isn't the assistant, he works for the manager. I suppose he should push Silva out of the way and sub himself for Calvert Lewin.
Or bang some pompoms on and act like Klopp smiling at the 4th official while chewing his ear for attention.
Dave Abrahams
150 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:11:56
Ray (148), Ray you knew the score on Walker, on and off the pitch !!
Ray Roche
151 Posted 23/10/2019 at 16:19:01
Dave..."allegedly" ;-)
Dave Abrahams
152 Posted 24/10/2019 at 10:52:55
Ray (140), that’s the fella Ray, his first name was Len, later on he wrote a lot of letters supporting the Tory party.

Ray (151), yes definitely allegedly.

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