Silva: I was calm before Hammers win

There have been alot of variables this season affecting players availablity and still alot of work to be put in regarding the playing squad and additions required in future transfer windows. What this game confirmed was that those plans are still on track and the resources are available to go forward, in the context of Moshiri and Brands thinking.

Silva is sticking to a plan, but also has shown some adaptability, craved by all of us.

Three years ago we all would have bit off the hand that was giving us that. Next step is consistency, to break the midtable pattern.

In my opinion Everton are set for two purple patches this season, a step up from one last season.

The suffering is not over yet lads

And yet, no matter how well we've played in individual games this last year, in every game I've watched I always expect that if we concede first, our glass jaw will be thoroughly exposed and the players will for some weird reason just switch off.

It's most frustrating, and it's been the same under several managers.

Also, we seemed to be man-marking as opposed to the zonal-ball watching of recent weeks.

I was mightly impressed with our efforts and delighted for Sigurdsson coming on and sealing the win but, if I see Seamus picked ahead of Sidibe for the next game and Davies dropped for Schniederlin, then I will conclude that the coach is an idiot. He needs to keep this winning side.

Wouldn't it be refreshing, and probably get more support, if he, and others were truthful and said it how many of us see it. We all want the Club to return to its rightful place at the top table and a bit of realism and honesty may help.

One thing I don't understand is how posters can make missing injured players as an excuse for our poor performances not only this season but since he joined.

Losing the games we have has been solely down to poor tactics and team selection. It's like we are the only club that suffers from injuries!

I totally agree. The losing run and dreadful performances have been entirely due to Silva's selections and tactical set-ups.

His selections against Brighton will demonstrate if he's learned any lessons or if he'll revert to type and recall Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Coleman.

His team selection next week will tell us more than this interview. What he doesn't mention is that he had to make five changes to inject a different approach to the game and it was those changes which led to a much more energetic, dynamic performance with everyone playing well. It wasn't a case of “What we do every day will inevitably lead to a performance like this” but rather one of him selecting a team which was made to move forwards and press with intensity.

I watched the whole game again last night (sad, I know, but I enjoyed it so much) and the performance of Gomes stood out. How we have missed him- his energy, control, strength in winning or retaining possession and vision with his passing. This is one top-class midfield player and Tom was his perfect partner. Watching it again showed me a difference in Tom- he didn't charge around all over the pitch but played almost as an old fashioned right half, a little reminiscent of Howard Kendall as a player. He was disciplined in keeping his position (Gomes helped here in that he kept to the centre or left) and looked calmer and much stronger for it.

Next Saturday will show us whether Silva has learned a lesson here.

Our best managers didn't run around like kids and to expect that, if Silva did, we would get more points, is naïve.

I was calm before the West Ham match too.

I was definitely CALM!

WHO'S SAYING I WASN'T CALM? I WAS FUCKING CALM, OKAY!!!

SERENITY NOW, SERENITY NOW, SERENITY NOW!!

He looks like a buffoon, it is bad sportmanship (a trait he has constantly shown) but to me is more to bully officials into giving him what he wants. It works.

Would I want Silva to behave the same no, but do feel in recent weeks as he has looked like a man who is all out of ideas. I was delighted with the win on Sat but it does hold up a mirror to the fact that we should have changed things up weeks ago.

If ever a player needed a dropping it was Siggy, He drops him and lo and behold he was like a man possessed when he came off the bench.

NOBODY should be guaranteed a place in the side, With the exception of very few players in any generation (Messi, Ronaldo etc). Players' form fluctuates, a good manager can read this.

Anyways, I will judge after Xmas but I still cannot see Silva being here long-term. I'm trying to stay positive as it has been a rough couple of months.

Vary easy to be calm when you're going to be paid a fortune either way.

It is like they need to display the same passion; otherwise, it doesn't mean as much. Or the players need to look to the sideline to see the manager waving his arms to know they need to try harder. If you need a demented clown on the sidelines waving his arms about to make you run a bit faster when you're getting paid £100,000 per week (or a lot more in some cases), then how did you make it as an elite level professional footballer?

I'd be surprised if any player really gave a shit what the manager's reaction is on the sideline. I think if you are an emotional guy, ie passionate, and you're suddenly losing, then it would be more reassuring to have a manager on the sideline who is calm.

Anyway, I think the TV cameras and clever editing makes the managers look like caricature of themselves and does not properly represent what is actually happening, as the TV cameras have an agenda there to fit in with their hype bubble.

In the 1980s, as I was too young to remember, was it really Kendall v Paisley / Fagan / Dalglish? From what I remember, the hype surrounding the manager is a recent thing emanating from the domination of Ferguson and the arrival of the big personalities like Mourinho and Wenger. But it could just be I didn't pay enough attention to the managers beforehand as I was a kid and it was all about the players for me.

Anyway, onto Silva's post-game comments, I agree with John Keating, that Silva has to come out with this. You cannot speak honestly though. If Silva did what Eddie suggested, then that is detrimental to the team. You can't tell the TV audience that Coleman isn't good enough or Schneiderlin is what most on here think he is. That would negatively affect the players concerned, it would also affect the rest of the dressing room who might be friends with them or think they won't give the manager 100% because he'd only throw them under the bus next time they have a bad game. If you see the manager criticising his players, ie, Jose Mourinho at Man Utd, then you know the end is nigh, and actually the manager might be trying to get himself sacked.

It goes back to Martinez. I never minded all the shite he came out with. His job was to build the players up so they could go out and perform. If he says a load of bollocks to the players to make them win, then great. I'd much rather the manager give the players some home truths in the dressing room and then tell the TV that they are Pele. I don't think it's two-faced, I think that's what a good manager should do.

I also think we should stop hanging on the manager's every word and analysing it. He's not delivering a carefully prepared presentation to the players, it's a few soundbites for the TV so they can put some more guff on Sky Sports News to fill a hole and keep us all watching 24 hours a day.

Stranger things have happened!

Catterick was seen as dour and he certainly didn't go out of his way to cultivate the media. Many of us veterans will remember the infamous incident when the MotD cameras were unceremoniously thrown out of the ground.

By contrast, Shankly was always looking for the next soundbite and the media hung on his every utterance no matter how ridiculous they were.

Catterick preferred his teams to do the talking on the pitch and in footballing terms we were light years ahead of the RS.

I also knew the MOTD story (didn't he say he didn't want the opposition to be able to study how we play?), I also read how he didn't take the training, and that he had an office in a cabin on the corner of Bellefield and sat with his back to the training pitch.

I fail to join up these observations and the esteem in which Catterick is held. So, the question is why is Catterick revered by some, above even Kendall, as our greatest ever manager?

Shankly was the opposite, went out of his way to please the media and they loved him for it, they would wait hours for him after a game because they knew they would get a quote off him, no matter how ridiculous it was, it helped that Shankly was in love with himself, with a massive egocentric personality.

Some manager's are successful by being quiet and unassuming generally earning respect because they don't treat players like babies but they still need good strategies and the ability to change when Plan 'A' isn't working.

Much depends on the squad that you have and some players respond better to a hardliner but not often.

For some managers the job is made easier when they have all the assets at their disposal to draw upon and there are not many who are lucky enough. Patience has to be shown by owners but very little sympathy there when you get to the bottom three.

Silva is still on probation for now but you just know they have to get a few more decent results over the next few weeks.

The Untold Story by Rob Sawyer is a well worth reading. Howard Kendall is my era and maybe the esteem they are held in is a generational thing?

Dave19.

On the occasions that I met Shankly, and he wasn't playing up to the cameras, I found him to be a warm, genuine man who loved football. The world is a more colourful place with the likes of Shankly And Clough.

I liked him. Not like Gnasher, who complains about everything that doesn't go his way.

Catterick? Oversaw the greatest decade in our history. Nuff said.

Shankly still fuckin' loved himself though, not retracting that bit, Ray!!!

I don't use his utterances as a vehicle of confirmation bias and a stick to beat him with, or to ridicule his (perceived) poor English (his English as a second language speaker is more than adequate).

If he came out and spoke the truth and only the truth, there would be uproar on TW and beyond. The pressers are a contractural obligation all managers and clubs are under. Most serve up benign pap to fill column inches and broadcasting minutes.

What is of greater interest to me is, following Saturday's vastly improved 90-minute intensity and performance, who he selects away to Brighton at the weekend.

It quickly became evident that the majority of the five changes were forced on Silva and not part of some master tactical and selection switch. Sidibe had to come in for the suspended Coleman. With Delph and Gbamin injured, not only was Tom Davies selected but even Baningime – who played for the U-23s the previous evening – was on the bench. Schneiderlin was either injured, or absent due to family reasons according to whichever report you read. Gomes was fit (fully..? we don't know) so was drafted in.

Sigurdson was 'rested' (or dropped..?) having played two full internationals. Iwobi came in.

The major re-shuffle was the front three, with both Bernard and Walcott recalled and Richarlison shifted into the middle.

By intention or good fortune, it worked out well for us. Football is littered with such examples of manager's 'lucking out' and finding a winning combination by accident.

Presumably those unavailable, or 'rested', for the West Ham game will be in serious contention for the Brighton game.

I'm extremely delighted with the win at the weekend. But Silva's own future and the club's fortunes under him will only improve when he addresses and turns around three repeated failures under his stewardship:

1) a Premier League high of 22 goals conceded from dead ball situations since the start of last season

2) Never once in 23 Premier League games coming back to win having conceded the first goal (20 defeats in those 23 games)

3) Improving an abysmal away record (which admitedly didn't start on his watch)

Brighton away last season was yet another tepid performance by Everton and one of Silva's random throwing on of attacking players in a schoolyard tactic attempt to retrieve a game we were losing (the controversial goal awarded to Brighton from...a corner kick).

It was a game he went with three central defenders - Zouma, Keane, Mina - Coleman and Digne as wingbacks, Gana and Gomes in midfield, same forward line as v West Ham on Saturday. No Siggy.

By game's end, Mina, Gomes and Bernard had been replaced by Calvert-Lewin, Siggy and Niasse and it was anybody's guess what the formation or intended tactics of the team were.

My ideal scenario for the Brighton game is for Silva to largely go with the same selection as the West Ham game, for us to concede the first goal, but then to relentlessly overwhelm Brighton and get a win on the road, with Silva making timely, appropriate and effective substitutions that help us win the game. That would be the first of many steps he needs to make to bring back a number of fans on his side.

Saturday's raucous support was a clear barometer that it doesn't take much to win the Blue faithful over IF they can see commitment and intensity from their team.

The first issue I would like to address is after match interviews, the only manager who described the match as I saw it was David Moyes. I think that no matter what approach Marco Silva and managers in general adopt, they leave themselves open to criticism. If they tell the truth by saying, "We were diabolical today" they would, in my opinion, be met with a barrage of "Well you picked them!"

They appear to be in a lose-lose situation. Regarding touchline behaviour, I would like to see a more enthusiastic Marco Silva, but I would cringe if he behaved in the way that Klopp does.

I always think that there is a distinct difference between favourite and greatest managers and players, the first manager [and again it's a matter of opinion] to provide many Evertonian's with football we had never witnessed was Johnny Carey, he laid the foundations for the successes of both Harry Catterick and Howard Kendall, each one playing a part in the history of Everton.

Surely he will want to tinker, as is his won't?

A new contract will be discussed at the second part of next season.

Steve #15

I found:

Kendall just talked facts, ending with a no-nonsense statement.

Paisley hardly said anything, outside the bootroom. Media was not his medium. . . and he was not worried about it.

Fagan was honest and obsessed with players competing.

Ferguson got the Assistant Manager to speak but, when he did it, gave brief facts, unless he was winding up Wenger or Keegan.

Dalglish it depended on what mood he was on and could be short.

Silva is as you described.

Silva's Everton at times last season played some really good football. As frustrating as this season has been I think we should cut Marco Silva a bit of a break. While the squad has improved tremendously in terms of talent over the last four seasons, he stilł has to shoehorn players into the team that are not fully suited to his style of play.

If last season he didn't have Gana, Gomes and Zouma as three of the first names to go into the match day sheet there would never have been that brilliant late season patch were we played all the Sky favorites off the park.

He is never going to be able to keep everyone happy and he is not exactly his own best PR person but let's give him credit for seeing small things like how a future great like Davies at this stage of his career would have been destroyed to be left to run the midfield without the magnificent Andre Gomes by his side.

As someone above said, improvement will be a patchy thing but last season was a big improvement on the season before and this season, in the end, will be a bigger improvement on the last. It's not a fast process and let's never kid ourselves that our finishing position in the table at the moment tells us very much about where we actually are in our quest to become a real consistent force in world football in the future.
We are, after all, not yet 4 years into Koeman's 5-year project.

That's his dilemma now, isn't it, which Everton fans will be watching with interest.

My 'guess' at what Silva will do (and that is all it is), not having any idea how Brighton play under their new manager, is that he won't repeat a back three as per the corresponding fixture last season, so that means a back four.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he immediately re-installed his captain, Coleman, in place of Sidibe.

I would hope he would be bold enough to retain the Gomes - Davies midfield pairing. It merits a longer run than a one-off game. But again, not knowing how Brighton plays, he may choose to 'bulk up' in midfield with a more defensive combo, depending on availability.

Sigurdsson could return for Iwobi. He may prefer Calvert-Lewin down the middle and switch Richarlison with Bernard dropping to the bench as Richie got no change down the middle from Duffy and Dunk last season.

Whatever he does, it will be revealing one way or another.

The 67-70 team played a brand of football unmatched in England at the time and with modern pitches and injury techniques could do so now in my view. Very very underrated by the media.

The Schneiderlin omission is a strange one. I also hear it was for "family reasons" rather than injury. It's rude to pry, but that does not make sense. Morgan followed through on his offer to the grieving family and took them to the game as his guests. There is a picture of him on the pitch with them on the family's social media. If Morgan was kept out for "family reasons", then they only kept him out of the team, but not out of the stadium. If it was an excuse for him being dropped though, it would be madness to go with a kid who played the night before in his stead. Probably best to just put it down to injury, and move on.

Walcott and Bernard are favourites of Silva and he has gone on record in recent weeks about their performances in training. If you pick both, then that raises a question over Richarlison. Unlike some esteemed commenters on here, I think Richarlison is doing ok this season, and I would keep him in the side. I also think that Bernard is better wide and coming inside than trying to play through the congested middle. So, if you play Walcott and Bernard wide, then Richarlison comes into the striker question with Calvert-Lewin and Kean. I would go with the other two over Richarlison myself, but if you need to find a way to keep him in the side, then I fully understand it.

I think Iwobi for Sigurdsson was a "no-brainer". Sigurdsson's form has really dipped, I don't think anyone can argue with that. I'm not his biggest fan, but if my job was on the line, I would find it hard to leave him out. As he showed on Saturday, he can smash them in from anywhere, and he scored 14 last season. When we are struggling badly for goals, I can see why you would find it so hard to drop him.

I think we can say that Silva was forced into picking Gomes, Davies and Sidibe. However, if everyone is fit, Gomes is Silva's first choice, so it's not really fair to say he was forced to pick a favourite of his.

Walcott was selected for Man City, before going off very early and missing the last game with concussion (mandatory ban these days). So it was no surprise to see him back in the side. I think he showed why Silva wanted to pick him, and Silva said how good he has been in training.

We have to sort out those defensive frailties though, as everything was almost lost at the end, but for Pickford's save.

Did any note how West Ham changed things for playing us? They are a side that passes out from the back. Not against us. The stats show that we've won the ball in the opposition third the most. In other words, we are the hardest team to play out from the back against. Brighton also like to play out from the back. They are at home. I wonder if they will continue to do so or if they will make a change to stop us pressing them. If we press high up the pitch, then expect the Schneiderlin safety vale to be present. If we don't go for the high press, then Davies will probably keep his place alongside Gomes. I think we need to keep the same team.

Coleman gets selected because of the armband, in my opinion, as his playing ability is in decline. I don't rate his leadership skills, as he does not seem to communicate enough with the others. There's more to being a captain than ranting and raving after mistakes.

The difference with someone like Gomes who seemed to be trying to make changes and doing the things I would like to see a captain do. (for example, one long conversation with Yerry Mina where he was gesticulating in a way that appeared to me about how he should be playing the ball out from the back). I'm not saying Gomes needs the armband, just we don't need Coleman.

I grew up near to Melwood and, in those days, you could just wander in and watch the training etc. Face to face Shankly was a really nice bloke and always had time to chat with us kids.

We often used to climb over the wall, in the evening, to have a kickaround with a plastic ball. Just 3 or 4 of us. One night, when there was a schoolboy match on, Algi, the groundsman, sneaked up on his Ariel Leader and caught us. He was escorting us out of the ground, in triumph, when Shankly came over and asked him what the problem was.

Algi: They're here every night, Mr Shankly."
Shankly: "What are they doing? Do they cause any damage?"
Algi: "No Mr Shankly, they kick that ball around."
Shankly, looking around: "Isn't that what we do here, Algi? Let them go."
Priceless!

Edit: found a good quote from Bill Shankly:

"I might add that I count Everton amongst the clubs who have welcomed me over the last few seasons. I have been received more warmly by Everton than I have been by Liverpool. It is scandalous and outrageous that I should have to write these things about the club I helped to build into what it is today, because if the situation had been reversed I would have invited people to games."

But I think Tommy Egglestone and then later Wilf Dixon are never given the credit they deserve for coaching the Catterick teams.

Catterick may well have had the vision and got the players in but I reckon those two coaches set them all up tactically and for sure day to day when Catterick was wherever he was hiding!

If he was the greatest, then what made him so? Was it simply the trophies? Is Roberto di Matteo a good manager because he won the Champions League with a side that others couldn't even get a tune out of? If he is a good manager, then why has he been sacked three times since and now can't get a job three years after his last one?

Personally,I don't think there is any specific way in which a successful manager should act on the sideline. However, he should be able to visibly show his approval when the team deserve it. Likewise, he should be able to reprimand a player – yes, even the so-called star of the team – when he is not showing desire or effort. I am sure that Silva has let Sigurdsson know that he needs to improve. In almost all cases this should be done privately. I don't think it helps any player to be screamed at from the touchline.

Aside from all that, I have been able to watch the game again and we played even better the second time. In many ways, it is somewhat pathetic that I have to watch a game twice in order to see enough wins. After four games of complete frustration, it is so relaxing to watch us win two games in a row – even if it was the same game!

He lived on the other side of the road to the houses which overlooked Bellfield and was invited to pop in whenever he wanted.

Unlike Melwood, Bellfield was a no-go area for kids. We'd wait for the players' coach to arrive and it had to stop on the road as the path into the ground was too small. We could chat with them and get autographs etc but we weren't allowed in.

We used to cycle around to Sandfield Park, on the other side, and sit on top of quite a high brick wall.

Both clubs used to bus the players in, fully kitted up. After training, at Melwood, they'd be given sandwiches sitting along benches in a wooden pavilion. I had many a freebie sarnie in there, lol!

Certainly at the time he was the complete opposite to Shankly. I reckon Shankly was one in a billion. Had we had him and Moores in tandem, my God history would have been written in Blue.

I think Catterick was very astute tactically and no doubt had a say in how we played but I think he was lucky with Egglestone and Dixon in that they were both fantastic trainers and coaches who were equally astute when it came to setting up players. Catterick was good at getting the players and staff he wanted.

I remember speaking to my hero, Alex Young, about him and he was honest enough to say that they saw him on matchday or if the telly people ever came to Bellfield; other than that... not much.

Like many businesses, if the guy at the top can get the people below him to perform, his life is so much easier!

As you say, if the top guy has a great system and it works well, then life is easier. Clive Woodward was also a master at this style of management where his main skill was identifying those who can give the players what they need. So, he combined the best coaches and strategists and oversaw it all.

I hope Marcel Brands is similarly great at these things and is able to get everything in place, and successfully oversee it, and ultimately bring the glory days back to Everton.

It will be interesting to see what he does next week seeing as there should be nobody on long-haul flights, only one week at Finch Farm, and possibly a couple returning from injury.

I thought Shankly lived in Bellefield Avenue at the back of Bellefield? He always said his house overlooked the training ground. Like you, as kids we'd cycle to Bellefield and use our bikes to stand on to get on the wall. We'd wait to get autographs at the entrance to the drive. The Groundsman had a terrier called Yogi. Little bastard. So was the dog.

I think Silva will have us up and running now, and I think that December's fixtures, ones we would dread under Moyes and be hoping for a point a game, will be the ones that get you back on side, as Silva is at his best against the best sides. Which is why I have so much faith in him. I think his ability to get at the top sides, which is how he made his name at Estoril, is what we were missing under Moyes. If Silva can get us back to that glass ceiling position as best of the rest, then he has the ability to get us to the next level.

But, of course, he has to rectify all the concerns that you and others have, and fix a number of issues first. I think those are easier to fix than the bigger step of actually beating the top sides with regularity. Who was the last Everton manager to beat all of Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal in one season? It was no fluke either.

Shankly did live in Bellefield Avenue but I am not sure if it overlooked our training ground.

I heard that when we signed Johnny Morrisey from Liverpool, Shankly was on holiday, and he went ballistic when he found out. I believe he told the board in no uncertain terms you ever sell or sign anybody without telling me first and that will be me finished with this club.

So when years later he was informed by the then Chairman that he had spoken to Dennis Hill Wood and he had agreed a deal to sign Ray Kennedy and he would be arriving the following day for a medical. To which Shankly replied that he had told the board what would happen if they did this again and promptly resigned there and then.

Obviously realizing that he wasn't joking the Chairman promised to ring Arsenal and cancel the deal to which Shankly said it didn't matter what he did he was still resigning which he did. Even Bob Paisley begged Shankly to let them cancel the transfer and carry on as normal but he refused.

The reason he ended up training at Bellfield was because, after a few weeks after he resigned, he still went to Mellwood to keep himself fit. But the players kept coming over to him and talking to him, and understandably Paisley said this was disrupting his training and suggested to Shankly he was always welcome to train at Mellwood but could he do it after the players had gone home. Shankly decided to train at Bellefield instead.

Out of all the enforced changes, the only one I don't think he would have made would have been Sidibe for Seamus if Seamus had been available. I also think Delph might have played had he been fit.

Sigurdsson has been poor recently and so deserved to be benched. Calvert-Lewin always gives 100% but needs to score a few more league goals to increase his confidence, whilst I also think Schneiderlin would have been benched anyway had he been available.

Hopefully Silva keeps the same team for this Saturday, but I fear he may well bring Seamus back in.

I don't think he can change the team at all after that performance. The only negative for me was the panic when West Ham attacked, which is also a worry away from home. We have to also see what reaction there is if we concede first.

I'm not sure about the extent of the injury Mina picked up. He's really coming into his own now. If he plays, l will have my tenner on him scoring first, he's due a goal. Anyway, lots of points to play for so let's see what this streaky manager can do.

Although I have nothing but respect for what the Catt did for us, we all know how moody and dour he was with the media, and didn't like to see us on TV. Shankly was heaven-sent for the media who he played up to and they lapped up his every word.

I've often wondered whether over the years media people have passed down to their apprentices or whatever stories of how accommodating Liverpool were as a club and we weren't. Even in the days of Dalglish who was the Catterick of his day in terms of misery, the press cut them some slack because of his ability as a player.

Does anyone agree or am I just delusional?

As I recall, it Bellefield Avenue was the road that lead up to the entrance of our former training ground. It overlooked what used to be called the Barnfield Drive football pitches. Don't think it overlooked the ground but was certainly very close – just a very short walk.

Even when I was a youngster, there used to be stories about Shankly looking over the fence/spying etc... Mick Lyons told us this was complete nonsense – Shankly simply walked in as he was a regular visitor, popular with the players and staff (many of whom he'd known for years).

With regard to Shankly staying away from Melwood, the only other point of detail I recall was a suggestion that the players continued to refer to him as "boss" which probably didn't help the Liverpool management team after his departure. I didn't know the Ray Kennedy signing was the straw that broke the camel's back though.

I saw Shankly as a spectator in the Main Stand at Goodison Park a few times in the seasons after he left. The thing that struck me even at a young age was the level of respect shown by the blues sitting around him. Good to see a proper football man given the respect he deserved.

Do I think Silva is the man to take us forward? No, I don't. Hope am wrong on that bit. But he picked the best and quickest 11 on Saturday and it worked. We have to do the same on Saturday v Brighton.

Simple as: Coleman, Delph, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin DO NOT start on Saturday. Keep the same team, gonna be slightly harder than last Saturday (due to us being away from home) but keep the intensity.

I hate to use them as an example but I want Everton to be like Liverpool away from home, where they treat the game like they're at Anfield. Roll your sleeves up and get into them from the first whistle. But we cave in far too easily. Just hope this win gives the club the boost and confidence it needs going into the rest of the season.

As for Silva, he needs to realise he is still at this moment unpopular with the fans. So, somewhere down the line, he has fight his stubbornness and play players who are quick and direct rather passing sideways and back. Another huge game for him and for the club this weekend.

Hopefully onwards and upwards now... for once.

I knew about the Johnny Morrissey story but didn't realise it was over Kennedy that he resigned. Kennedy had a sad time since he finished playing, having been diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease. His entry in Wikipedia is sad and thought-provoking.

I fully agree regarding Shankly, Catterick and the media. Shankly joining the cousins was a perfect storm for them.

I remember when he joined LFC as a Club was a disaster, team, infrastructure, horrendous training facilities, players, everything.
Shankly started at Melwood and gutted the place, got rid of all the players – I think Paisley, Rueben Bennet and Fagan were there when he joined?? and piecemeal transformed the Club.

He immediately got the supporters and media onside. Being an ordinary guy himself, relating to the locals was easy for him. Once the supporters and media were onside and the first trophy came in that was it and it's continued since.

Had Catterick been more media-friendly, who knows how we would have fared. Both the 63 and 70's teams never got the coverage they deserved. As regards the Kendall glory years, I think that's only recognised on the blue half of Merseyside!!

"As regards the Kendall glory years, I think that's only recognised on the blue half of Merseyside!!"

BT Sport are advertising a programme, "The Team Of The Eighties". Guess who?

Crystal effin Palace! CRYSTAL PALACE!!! Team of the eighties! I give up.

"It's okay beating West Ham at home one week, then lose to Brighton a week later shows the inconsistency at the club."

Shit, man. There is pessimism but this takes the biscuit.

I am firmly in Silva's corner and believe he will get it right and has proved he is not afraid to ring the changes, hope to god he doesn't read TW!!

A special mention also for Yerry who, for me, has been the standout performer this season.

The exact manager role seems to vary a lot. For example, I read Michael Owen complaining that training under Big Sam was tedious. He said he presided over sessions and constantly interrupted to explain where people should stand in specific scenarios etc.

On the other hand, Kevin Mirallas claims Allardyce never took training sessions. My mate did the FIFA B license and said the exam includes freezing shots of real games at say one end of the field, and asking the coach how and where the goalkeeper should be standing, angled etc at that exact moment at the other end of the field.

I read that Wenger never took training either. So where the coaches just getting players fit while Wenger developed tactics? Or did Wenger (and maybe Catterick) instruct coaches on how to prepare the players tactically while they took care of other matters?

You couldn't make that up! Well, actually you could. Thing is, people will believe it.

I don't recall much about the Palace side but, as a student in Manchester, I watched City quite often. They had a nucleus of young players (Ray Ranson, Nicky Reid, Steve Mackenzie and the late Tommy Caron – to make but 4) but it seemed to fall apart after they lost the 1981 FA Cup Final to Spurs.

However, I do believe Sidibe should start this weekend based on his performance Saturday.

I wasn't aware of the Allison connection but still! Maybe they could address the balance and do one of the real Team Of The Eighties.

If a player said he was injured he would tell them to go out there and earn their pay.

He must have had something though because we were absolutely brilliant under him.

Does anybody else see a likeness to Lois Suarez in the demented Klipetty's demeanour and antics. I am sure if Rainhill was still open, he would be a candidate.

Just another note on Shankly. He rang the "Echo" (before it was the red echo) and told them not to send their Journalist to the next game as he had revoked his press pass because he gave the RS a bad report. That was the start of the gushing media praise that the Dark Side get.

Yes, Catterick did not have much time for the media, and I can't imagine what would happen if Skye Sports would have been controlling the game, as they do today.

I met Catterick on a couple of occasions when he was a guest at the Liverpool and District Sunday League end of the year presentations at the Grafton Ballroom. He talked with me for a while and although he didn't remember my name the following year he did say he spoke with me the last time he came, and he spoke to me for about 10 mins about being the registration secretary for the league.

From the rest of the people who were there, they all said how pleasant he was and easy to talk to, so I guess you were ok if you were not from the media.

I may be wrong (not for the first time, I may add) but my recollection is that it was a prediction that didn't materialise.

I think you better have a reality check. I can see you're not a Coleman fan, but to say he's a total pedestrian, how many games have you watched?

I do agree Sidibe should keep his place against Brighton, has to be the same 11.

“What I was trying to do by picking A and B was get at the opposition down their left flank and get some early crosses in. They did this a couple of times but our centre forward wasn't quick enough, and missed them. I'm going to have a chat with him, see if we can change that.”

“The ref got it right. Our player Z was stupid, he was already on a daft yellow for kicking the ball away, so he was always going to be sent off for that. He's going to get a big fine. He's a good lad, but a bit thick at times.”

“I chose a formation to thwart the opposition. It didn't work. It was a bad idea.”

That's how I'm going to be during my month in charge.

However he was certainly one of the most media-friendly/savvy managers of his era and adept at keeping himself in the spotlight. Who can forget the fedora and cigar!

Allison as Man City manager in '79 lasted for only 1 year, he spent a transfer record at the time on Steve Daley, a total disaster, and big money on Mike Robinson, Swale sacked him, and brought in John Bond. He did have a young promising team at Palace, I think Gerry Francis was captain.

John @33,

Great point about Johnny Carey, so unlucky, and laid the foundation for Catterick, who for a manager, with a hands-off approach, was unbelievable. Howard was years ahead of his time, we'll never know what he could have achieved because of the Heysel.

Nobody on this club gets from one end to the other better than Seamus. He has his struggles. That ain't one of them.

Pete #85, you gotta hire me as your PR guy. A month is all you'd last talking like that in the modern game.

Oh really? So what were you doing the four games before Saturday? Does he expect anyone with ounce of intelligence to believe his arrogant, insulting garbage? Wow, this guy winds me up!!

Also happy for Tom and Alex who played with such intensity and speed that mistakes were bound to happen. I'm happy with misplaced balls now and then if the odd ones find the forwards and lead to goals. Have to wonder what they do in shooting practice though. Suppose it's a confidence thing.

I think we have to stick with Silva at least till the end of the season. Hoping he makes it his job for some time. Also I don't see a reasonable replacement available. For Moyes read Big Sam.

'Struggling up and down the pitch' – try SpecSavers. Have a look back against Man City, we lost possession in the City area, and they caught us on the break. Watch Seamus passing out Delph on the way back??

Seamus used to fly up and down that right side. Unfortunately, he’s lost a yard of pace and that can make the world of difference in this league.

I can name at least 10 Premier League right backs who get up and down that flank a lot better than him nowadays.

Let’s give Sidibé an extended run of games to see if the consistency is there.

Link

Reassuring to read at the end his long term ambition remains breaking into Everton's first team.

Worth a read.

A phaser that fits both in this instance and one Marco will do well to adhere to is"You don't change a winning team" ( unless of course forced to by injuries or suspensions)

Let's hope that this is one that Marco is familiar with.

That's a fantastic story! Brilliant.

That was the time of players' cards, which everyone collected at school, and bartered over, a bit like the Pokemon craze.

Information on Everton was from Match of the Day and Shoot magazine. Everton were a big team and all the matches where competitive and they played to the final whistle.

I started supporting them in 1967, because Blue was my lucky colour and my cousin was a fanatic fan and still is today.

I always look back on it and think of how quietly they won the League, with no fuss. I knew very little about Harry Catterick. He was just someone who sat in the dugout.

I think the groundsman lived on site and, yes, he was a right bastard, as was his dog, lol.

Everton signed Morrisey, for a knockdown £10k, when Shankly was on holiday and he wasn't too pleased, to put it mildly. The Kennedy one (if it was him) was over a decade later. I'd heard he was in very poor health.

Ray, did you ever go to Melwood back in those days? It was like chalk and cheese both for the facilities, which at Melwood was just two old wooden pavilions, and the access to the players. It was only kids, too.

I go past Melwood, now, and it has high security all around and the entrance is diagonally opposite, in Bevans Lane. Their tourist fans can be seen standing on wheelie bins trying to take selfies over the wall.

They've just sold it so they won't be there much longer.

Never mind the personalities of the two managers, Catterick and Shankly were both very good at their jobs and Harry Catterick was every bit as good as Bill Shankly, and was successful at two first division clubs, Everton and Sheffield Wednesday who were runners up to the fantastic Spurs team at that time. Shankly was manager at four different clubs and only had success at one.

I think Shankly threatened to resign from Liverpool on quite a few occasions but T V Williams, the chairman always persuaded him to stay. Shankly played five a side football at the Vernon Sangster Stadium at Stanley Park, after he resigned from Liverpool, with Johnny Morrissey and a few people I know, and he would never discuss the reason why he left Liverpool.

To be honest, I think Harry got seduced by the glamour and attention and for him ran off at the mouth something wicked... I wouldn't put it past them to use the old... "Now we're off the air, what about this player and that player?" etc. Because when it went to air Catterick didn't comment but reportedly went apeshit.

This was why he banned the BBC and why there is little or no footage of 69-70... but you can't move for Liverpool stuff and pundits now. It all started there. Harry banned them, Shankly welcomed them and always had a witty comment.

Anyways, he thought he'd given away some of our moves and tactics. The interview ended up coming out as a complete hatchet job on how Sandy Brown was the weakest link in the team... "Yes Mr Catterick, the camera's off now." ... oldest trick in the book. Sandy's confidence went, add in the own goal. Which is why Keith Newton was signed over Christmas.

Am I the only one that remembers that Sports Night with Coleman interview?

At the time of his resignation, a story did the rounds that he resigned as the players all received bonuses for winning things but Shankly was refused a similar bonus. I was told that the source was somebody employed at Anfield but who it was, and if it was right, I don't know.

I'm not sure if it was the same interview you mention (he didn't do many after all!) but the one I'm thinking of was the week of the Cup 3rd round just before we played Sheffield United away in 1970. I think they were in Division 2 but I may be wrong on that.

Anyway, Harry said that Gordon West should do better with crossed balls and, on the Saturday, Utd scored 2 goals from crosses after we were 1-0 up! Alan Woodward was their star winger at the time. It was my first visit to Bramall Lane and I was amazed that one side of the ground was completely open as they also played cricket there.

The good news was that we won the league that year though. And as a postscript, our fans started calling Westy ‘Dracula' as they said he was afraid of crosses!

Gaynes, you used the word “hire”, so I'm afraid you're out. Stephens, you will be on performance-related pay so, given the way that particular post has operated so far, my future should be pretty financially secure.

Labone and West always gave autographs to the kids that were there at 9 am when they arrived but not the lazy arses who turned up only at 1 pm when they were leaving.

No, I never went to Melwood. I sometimes go down Eaton Road now on my way to Goodison if I have visited my sister in Bowring Park or played golf with my brother at West Derby Golf Club. It's changed a bit!

I cringe every time I see that bloody own-goal in that game. Sandy was never the most gifted footballer but he was a great servant to the club. If my memory serves correctly, Newton missed most of the run-in to the title due to injury and Sandy stepped up to the plate in admirable fashion.

Another unsung hero of 69/70 Was Tommy Jackson of course. But as Brian Labone once said, tongue in cheek, it was the first time a three-man side had won the league

I don't think Catterick, Shankly, et al got anyone relegated.

COYB and COYB.

In the late 60s and early 70s I don't recall any particular bias, and indeed the BBC on MotD highlighted how great our football was on a number of occasions. In particular, I recall Kenneth Wolstenholme extolling the School of Science during one of our brilliant moves through midfield during the first game after we'd won the title in 1970.

I believe the bias towards Liverpool, like the bias towards Man Utd, arose mainly from the number of trophies they'd won prior to the Premier League being set up. That trophy success led to the media's widespread use of their former players and hence quite a bit of bias during post-match analysis.

I also believe that, although we haven't won so much in terms of quantity, the sheer quality of the 60s sides put us on a pedestal. The football world generally recognised how good we were, to a point where it's conceivable that if the entire Everton side from 69-70 had been chosen as the England side in Mexico 1970, few people would have been surprised (but England never did such sensible things, hence their mediocrity). The world missed what would likely have been a great spectacle of football, namely Brazil vs 'Everton' in Mexico.

The fact that we were so good in quality, such pure but effective football, probably led many reds to want to knock us off the pedestal more so than from the usual blue - red rivalry. I think they got pissed off with people saying how great we were. I certainly experienced it directly, with reds getting fed up listening to how great our Holy Trinity was. I recall times in derby games at Anfield, stood on the Kop with red mates, where the Kop was basically silenced by the quality of our football.

That shadow of Everton's superiority in the 60s still hangs over Liverpool, no matter how many trophies they've won quantitatively. That's set in stone now, to an extent that they are incapable (not just unwilling) to give credit where it is due to Everton.

Of course, that same superiority from the 60s makes it particularly hard for Evertonians of my vintage to see some of the mediocre sides since then, the mid-80s being an oasis in that desert. It's hard for any Evertonian these days, and I feel for younger supporters who've never seen a great Everton side, but it's especially stark for older supporters who grew up seeing greatness.

Something that may be of interest to you guys, and to bring it back to the subject of the article, did anyone see Pellegrini has been upsetting the West Ham fans with his post-match comments?

He said:

"If I remember the last game we played here in this stadium, we came in the same position as Everton were before the game, losing four games in a row, so that is something that allowed them to demand more from their players and that's what they did.

“When you are in the situation that Everton found themselves in, maybe you have more energy. In this same stadium, we came to play them after four defeats and we beat them 3-1. It seemed our team ran double them, but today was different and they ran as if every ball was the last one of their lives and we couldn't be able to try to play in a different way and find the same level as them.”

Personally, I think he makes sense. But the West Ham fans are going nuts about it on Twitter. They think he's effectively saying that they couldn't win because our boys wanted it more because they were on a losing streak, and so his comments are idiotic and make him look like the clown he is.

I did go the game in the '80s, and I did start to watch the blues just before they embarked on the period of glory, but given that Kendall had left before my 10th birthday, I don't really remember much, and so I don't really count myself as having enjoyed watching that side. My abiding childhood memories are of Champions in rapid decline.

I think it's harder to have been close to enjoying watching great teams, to be able to have childhood heroes like Andy Gray, Graham Sharp, and Adrian Heath and then go to the likes of Cottee and then end up with the likes of Mikel Madar up top as your childhood ends. I'd much rather have been in your shoes Stan as at least you can remember the greats.

Over-coached? Neglected defence? My own personal thoughts were that the team became that big on conserving energy, they couldn't build up any momentum to take into the next game, and this began to really agitate the crowd?

Maybe he thought his squad wasn't big enough to compete on all fronts, but the football went backwards, and so did Roberto, with the biggest contradiction to what I'm saying, is when he brought a centre-forward on for a midfielder to protect a two-goal lead, even though we were down to ten men at home to West Ham, and this idiotic ploy completely backfired.

Too clever for his own good. Or was he never really good enough in the first place?

When you think of all the iconic clubs in England, which at one time we were amongst that elite but sadly no longer. Success is trying to qualify for a Champions League place – something we haven't done since the 70s... how bad is that?

If winning the Champions League (or as it was known, the European Cup) is a measure of a club, then we are behind Nottingham Forest, who won it twice, and Aston Villa?

Whether Martinez is a good coach or manager or not, will be more evident after his next job. He's done alright with Belgium and will get another chance with a decent job as a result. If he does well there then it good be argued he is decent, but if he flops again, then you could say he is an erratic manager who is capable of winning the Cup with Wigan and getting 72 points with Everton, and getting Belgium into their first World Cup Semi-Final, but also getting relegated with Wigan and struggling to the sack with Everton.

Just to add to my post@115. During our period of greatness, it was always known that the big difference between Everton and Liverpool was the quality of our football. We played great football, whilst Shankley developed Liverpool on a bed of fitness. That rankled, and still rankles, with them. It's similar now, in the difference between them and Man City. Man City are the present-day equivalent of us in the 60s. City's superiority in quality irritates Liverpool.

My first taste of success with Everton was when I watched us win the league in 1963 and was at the FA Cup Final hot on the heels of that. And of course we've had trophies since then. Great memories but it all feels like history (you know) and these days feel empty.

For all our previous trophies they are just history to me (just like the last rs league trophy is just history). I guess your sons feel even less attachment to the distant history.

My greatest thrills in recent years have been to watch the U23s and their title wins!

Brent, my Dad always used to say to me, in recent years, that Everton is not the same. He always went on about who he played with at school and who he played against and could reel off a load of internationals. My uncles could do the same.

I used to say that things aren't done yet as I still played against the likes of Michael Branch and Dom Matteo, and David Dunn. We've also had a succession of youth players come through who went on to play for England. But it's obviously nothing like my Dad's day (the '60s).

So, I also love to watch the youth team, because that seems like pure Everton. Mostly local lads in Royal Blue competing against the best from the rest of the country.

Brexit will change football. Unless the Freedom of Movement of Workers (FMW) carries on, the rule book will need to be re-written. The FA have an opportunity to get the Premier League to comply with something to give more opportunity to our young players. I fear though, money will win, and something will be done to allow the present system to continue, because whilst without FMW Europeans will need a work permit, any footballer in the Premier League will get one. The Home Office will give a fancy London restaurant a work permit to bring in a top chef from Brazil, for example. It's the FA who came up with our current system (designed before FMW with the intention of making the Premier League be full of British players).

Had a bevvy with Stephen Hughes too, he bought us a drink after showing him my Everton tattoo, spoke for ages; he also made his way through the crowd to have a chat with us a few nights later in a different club. Good lad... met a few others too, but them too were ace.

The most damning part in Roberto's decline were the comments from Osman, I think, that Martinez's hardest training sessions were like Moyes easy warm down sessions. We weren't fit.

Apart from the great teams he created, one thing we should forever be grateful to Catterick for, is bringing the great Howard Kendall to Goodison Park – had he not played for us, there's every chance he wouldn't have managed us either!

Everton probably wasted more good opportunities on Saturday than they have all season but, once a team is working hard, they will always make more chances, especially if they believe in themselves — and after thinking how many times they didn't have to rush things because their opponents couldn't live with their intensity.

Osman was spot on – Martinez was lucky to inherit and fit well-drilled outfit from Moyes.

Also, did you see the interview with Roberto Jiménez prior to the game? It's on the West Ham website. Roberto was Silva's keeper at Olympiacos and had a few nice things to say about him: Link

I believe we have more quality than Liverpool in a number of areas, like the midfield, which was evidenced last season. Klopp has them organised and working hard. We also need to be organised and working hard, that way the quality we have will have maximum effect.

Regarding Silva being calm (the subject of the thread), I would hope he is calm regardless of the predicament. Lacking calmness achieves nothing, whilst calmness comes with professionalism. If he believes he knows what he's doing, that's a good thing, since we wouldn't want to see someone being paid what he's paid if he didn't believe he knew what he was doing.

Best keep actions on the field to a minimum, and maximise actions off the field, in response to any politics. Sport and politics form bad chemistry together.

It’s only a snapshot so can’t jump to any conclusions on a split second but interesting to see how the players interact and see who the leaders are.

That loon from over from Birkenhead was always
writing to a lot of newspapers, about the rs. His name
was Griffiths.

Martinez relegated Wigan through vanity and stubornness. He jumped ship and, given time, I believe he would have relegated us. Belgium with a proper coach would have won the world cup. He is utterly useless, the worst coach in our history.

I accept that some may disagree and offer up Allardyce. Fair point. However, I am convinced that Allardyce would have saved Wigan. Martinez destroyed that club and Kenwright thought "He's the man for us".

Think it might be a bit of attention seeking to be honest.

While he was here, at one stage he said he got loads of letters off Everton fans and said he put them straight into the bin. When he was sacked he said he had received plenty of letters off Everton fans sympathising with him over his dismissal, funny how he read the second lot of letters and not the first lot.

Total waste of space.

Ray (151), yes definitely allegedly.