Everton squander more points in the agonizing slog for European football

Michael Kenrick 05/04/2021 700comments  |  Jump to last

James Rodriguez makes a much-anticipated return after 6 weeks out

After an utterly dreadful first half of incredible missed chances, Rodriguez gave Everton the win they needed... until Palace sub Batshuayi equalized to steal 2 vital points from Everton's faltering attempts to secure European football next season.

James Rodriguez made a most welcome return to the starting line-up.

Abdoulaye Doucouré is missing with a stress fracture in his foot while Bernard and Fabian Delph have been ruled out, but Tom Davies is available despite missing the England Under-21 match against Croatia. Both he and Ben Godfrey missed that decisive game for their country in midweek but Ancelotti says he expects them to shake off their respective knocks although

Jordan Pickford needs more time to overcome the rib muscle injury he aggravated against Burnley. Robin Olsen was passed fit and takes his place between the sticks at the expense of young stand-in Joao Virginia who is on the bench.

Finally, Jean-Philippe Gbamin makes his long-awaited comeback after more than 18 months out of action. The Ivorian midfielder is on the bench, alongside Sigurdsson Godfrey, King and two goalkeepers; no place for Allan in the squad this evening as he has a minor problem.

Crystal Palace kicked off and there were few long balls kicked around as the game looked for some sort of pattern to be established. For Everton, that meant playing it back to Olsen, then playing out from the back but DIgne suffered a forearm smash to the neck that he did not appreciate.

The pattern that did emerge early on was not too encouraging: short back and sides followed by a punt forward that loses possession. Benteke looked to barge his way through but four defenders presented him with a brick wall at the expense of the first corner, cleared after a session of head tennis that saw Richarlison break after a mistake by Milivojevic and, with an opportunity to shoot, he strangely played an awful pass in the direction of Calvert-Lewin... but someone was offside anyway.

Palace were having more of the possession but couldn't much with it; on the turnover, Davies was fouled but Everton again played it backwards. Rodriguez played one of thiose classic crossfield passes to Digne's bootlaces but the Frenchman strangely lobbed it straight to the Palace goalkeeper.

Anther frustrating session of playing out from the back ended with an overhit drive forward that went behind. Eze was caught by Davies but it was Mina who got a very early card. for a pull-back off the ball. Richarlison got a talking to from referee Friend after he thought he had won the ball. Still the game was a shapeless mess.

Palace were getting closer to scoring, Eze getting a shot on Olsen before Calvert-Lewin was easily blocked following a brilliant ball forward from Digne. Why oh why did he not shoot properly or take it around the keeper?

Coleman set up a lovely cross for Richalrlison, whose body position and neck twisting was all wrong: the ball flew harmlessly over the Palace bar. Richarlison was then set free and had to score... but utterly hopeless! His 'effort' defies description. And the second chance he got was also wasted. Unbelievable missed chances for Everton.

Rodriguez was next: he brilliantly controlled a cross in from Coleman but fired his shot over the bar! Zaha thought he'd show how it was done at the other end but drove across and wide of Olsen's goal. Gomes went down clutching his ankle on the half-hour and Sigurdsson was quickly readied for what passes in his world as 'action'.

Van Aanholt barged into Davies and came off worse. A blood-curdling scream from Ayew (maybe screaming his own name?) earned another yellow card, this time for Digne as Everton resolutely refused to take any control of the game. On the other side of the field, Rodriguez was on the receiving end of some rough stuff — blatantly ignored by Mr Friend.

Palace got forward again and this time it was Benteke whose shot needed to be blocked at close quarters. Everton tried to build but every avenue was a cull-de-sac. Richarlison won a dangerous free-kick and insisted, against all contrary advice, that he would take the set-piece, curled nicely around the wall... and the far post.

Rodriguez tried a snap drive but from a long way out, flying past that far post again. Another free-kick won by Richarlison but this one a lot further out and Rodriguez curled it in beautifully but Richarlison got 6 inches ahead of its path and could only head over rather than under the bar.

At least Palace were no better at attacking, a great ball to Benteke coming backwards off his heel. Thankfully, there were only 2 minutes more of what must be the most frustrating half of, yes, zombie football ever seen at Goodison Park. And this is the Premier League???

The second half kicked off and there was little evidence that things were going to improve, with the visitors edging the possession stats. It looked like Richarlison had fouled Zaha but miraculously Friend gave the free-kick Everton's way.

After a lot of Palace pressure, an Everton break seemed to fall perfectly for Sigurdsson but his drive looked weak and was deflected behind for a corner. The ball looked perfect but Mina barely glanced it causing Rcharlison to miss it completely.

A much more energetic move say Digne play a nice one-two back-heeled off Richarlison and it seemed Sigurdsson must scor but the chance seemed lost until Coleman calmly played it back to a certain Colombian genius and, with his right foot, he impossibly squeezes it in off the post with the goalkeeper right there, ut failing to block it. A superb quality finish from El Maestro!

Richarlson and Sigurdsson linked up to play in Calvert-Lewin for an even better cance than he squandered in the first half, but again, the goalkeeper was too close and the Sheffield Sniper fumbled it hopelessly yet again.

A brilliant curling shot from Eze forced an equally good punching save from Olsen as Palace tried to respond to the setback. Davies gifted Zaha with an open run on goal but the one-time Everton target showed he would fit in well at Goodison Park as he fluffed his lines.

Van Aanholt found himself scampering free but wasn't sure what to do with it as the Everton defence reformed. Everton had the goal they wanted and seemed to sit back a little more as Palace pushed a little harder. Rodriguez went off for Gbamin to return, wearing the No 13 shirt (unlucky for some!)

A great piece of wing-play by Calvert-Lewin led to Digne setting up Richarlison for yet another glorious chance that he booted into the ground. It bounced up and was palmed away by Guaita. At the other end, Schlupp seemed to have a great scoring chance that he pulled well wide.

Palace just would not give up and play dead. And Batshuaya, the last sub got behind the Everton defence to level up despite a desperate attempt by Godfrey to block him.

Calvert-Lewin turned provider with a lovely ball for Richarliso but his nemesis in the Palace goal stuck out an arm and deflected it away. Everton tried to vary the game a bit, Godfrey overlapping well but his header back to set up Sigurdsson was intercepted.

Kick-off: 6pm, Monday 5 April 2021 on Sky Sports

Everton: Olsen, Coleman (76' Godfrey), Keane, Holgate, Mina [Y:15'], Digne, Davies, Gomes (30' Sigurdsson), Rodriguez (79' Gbamin), Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin.
Subs:Virginia, Tyrer, King, Nkounkou, Broadhead, John

.

Crystal Palace: Guaita, Ward, Kouyate, Cahill, Van Aanholt, Zaha, Milivojevic, Riedewald (68' Schlupp), Eze, Benteke (77' Mateta), Ayew (84' Batshuayi) .
Subs not Used: Butland, Dann, Townsend,Kelly, Hannam, Mitchell

Referee: Kevin Friend
VAR: Graham Scott


Reader Comments (700)

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Thomas Richards
1 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:08:20
Looks a bit lightweight in central midfied.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

2 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:09:02
Godfrey only on the bench. Allan nowhere to be seen, but Gbamin does make the bench.

Not a lot of backup to change things around much.

Subs: Sigurdsson, King, Nkounkou, Godfrey, Gbamin, Virgínia, Broadhead, John, Tyrer

Looks like a flexible back 3/5 combo again.

Pleased to see Townsend only on the bench for them. He's caused us problems in the past.

Steavey Buckley
3 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:10:11
Everton have gone for a 3-5-2 or part-time wingers and part-time full-backs. Never works. Always ends in tears.

Ancelotti needs to set up a defense that won't concede goals instead of experimenting all of the time at home, that has ended in defeat after defeat.

Ajay Gopal
4 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:11:04
A 3-4-3? Or is Holgate playing central midfield? I would prefer the latter.
Kevin Molloy
5 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:13:38
No Allan, after a 3-week holiday. Christ.
Dave Williams
6 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:14:00
Looks quite a defensive selection and surprised no Godfrey. Perhaps on bench due to not being fully fit after England duty.

A lot depends on James. It would be nice to get to a comfortable position and be able to give JP Gbamin a run out.

Kieran Kinsella
7 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:14:00
Wasn't Gbamin's last game also vs Palace?
Kieran Kinsella
8 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:15:28
Jay,

Yeah, Townsend could create dangerous long shots like Burnley did so I'm also glad to see him benched.

Rob Halligan
9 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:17:18
Godfrey appeared to turn an ankle playing for the U23s recently. Looked in a lot of pain but carried on and finished the game. Probably still niggling him so no point in playing tonight and making it worse. Seems strange if he's on the bench though? Just hope he's not required.
Jay Harris
10 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:17:33
Good point, Ajay. He may well be playing Holgate as the holding midfield player.

Palace are only dangerous down the flanks so I like that Coleman and Digne are there. Coleman usually does well against Zaha and, with Davies or Holgate to cover, we should be okay.

Onus is on James, Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin to get us some goals.

Kieran Kinsella
11 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:17:47
Is Iwobi in quarantine? I thought Nigeria said it was a “fake test”?
Lyndon Lloyd
12 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:18:08
Kieran (7) - No it was the next game against Watford at home. Played the 90 and was never seen again until now.

Kevin (5): "No Allan, after a 3-week holiday. Christ."

I suspect he picked up a knock (let's hope that's all it is) in training between Carlo's presser and now.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

13 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:18:43
Kieran, Gbamin's debut was against Palace on the opening day of last season, 18 months ago. Came on at half-time for the injured Gomes.

Started and played 90 minutes in the next game – a 1-0 home win over Watford, then got the first of his career-threatening injuries.

Tony Twist
14 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:19:13
Hard to see us winning this without getting the first goal; we are there for the taking and I think Palace know this.
Clive Rogers
15 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:23:22
Allan is beginning to look a bad buy. Missing half the time and decidedly average after the first couple of games. He's 31 next season and it's looking like he may need replacing.
Dave Abrahams
16 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:26:33
No Allan? What goes on at Finch Farm gets more curious with every passing week. Hope for the best tonight, prepared for the worst.
Danny Broderick
17 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:28:04
Looks like 3-4-3 to me:

Olsen
Holgate Keane Mina
Coleman Davies Gomes Digne
Rodriguez Calvert-Lewin Richarlison

Clive Rogers
18 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:31:42
Dave, he's picking up age-related strains and has always been injury-prone anyway. Finch Farm not guilty.
Dave Abrahams
19 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:39:26
Clive (18), fair enough... but there have been a few injuries this season that happened at Finch Farm.
Ciarán McGlone
20 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:41:50
Anybody's guess what the set-up will be...
Tom Bowers
21 Posted 05/04/2021 at 17:55:27
Whatever happens it won't be a surprise with Everton these days but a 3-0 win will be nice. I would like to see Gbamin get some action at some stage.

If they don't get caught out by Zaha's breaks then it should be a good result.

Lennart Hylen
22 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:18:26
It is the same dull approach as before. No directness. Always the pass backwards and then passing the ball around the back line. I can not see us win today with this attitude.
Alex Gray
23 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:35:17
Gomes off injured. Allan injured. Doucouré injured. Every time a player comes back, we get another two injuries. Our injury list this season is unbelievable.
Ciarán McGlone
24 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:48:54
Uninspiring.

Defensive set up produces defensive faffing about at the back shocker!

Second-best at home again... against a fairly average team.

Brian Wilkinson
25 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:52:23
Must be watching a different game to me, Ciaran. Everton are certainly not second-best and three one-on-ones missed by our attackers.
Thomas Richards
26 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:52:29
"Defensive set up produces defensive faffing about at the back shocker!"

Same formation created enough clear chances to be three-up.

Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:53:50
Bits of fluency but not enough, although we should definitely still be in front, with Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin both guilty of missing gilt-edged chances.

Maybe uninspiring but definitely not second-best, although I can understand people wanting more.

Neil Lawson
28 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:55:04
World class strikers? There are those with names that cannot be mentioned who would have converted at least 2, possibly 4 of those gilt-edged chances.

And the forward pass from Gomes and the position of Richarlison! How much are they paid???

Alex Gray
29 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:58:35
I don't think we're playing badly. We simply have no squad to play any differently. Huge 45 mins for our season coming up.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

30 Posted 05/04/2021 at 18:59:09
We're not playing great, but we are far from being second best. If Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison were both sharper and cooler with the very good chances they've had, we'd be 2-3 goals to the good.

Dom allowed the keeper to close him down from Holgate's very good through ball. Richarlison should have headed down not up from Coleman's good cross. How much time did he need with the two opportunities from Gomes's pass? Why did he run ahead of Gomes into an offside position with the early chance?

Decent header from the free-kick. I imagine Carlo will have words about the Brazilian ignoring three teamates and dead-ball specialists on the free-kick he insisted on taking.

Good on one hand he wants to take responsibility. Bad on the other that Everton would definitely have worked on free-kicks on the training ground from that position which went out of the window with Richarlison's stubborness.

Find your shooting boots, boys, and we win this.

Alan J Thompson
31 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:00:24
What can you say about that, I don't know if I should be pleased with the performance or wondering why the hell we aren't 5 nil up!

Gomes is through in what looked a three against one, Richarlison runs offside, Gomes should see that and should have gone forward to draw the defender to him but no, he passes to a man offside. The only surprise is why it took the Ref and Linesman so long to see the bleedin' obvious.

Then Calvert-Lewin shows why there is some doubt about him, 1-on-1 with the keeper who's on the edge of his box and he harmlessly chips it to him and the keeper is so surprised he almost gives him a 2nd chance.

Then Richarlison fails to put 2 easy headers on target and shows a complete lack of discipline over a free-kick.

And Mr Ancelotti won't say much about it until tomorrow!
Bloody Everton!

Roger Helm
32 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:02:47
We are the best side and creating chances. I predict 2-0.
Tony Heron
33 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:03:59
I'm totally bewildered by Everton. This is non-football (Rodriguez excepted). Why does nobody come looking to help the player in possession? Always hiding behind an opposition player, not looking for space.

If, by some miracle, a ball is played forward, the first instinct is to play it back to the same player.

Has Calvert-Lewin never watched Kane and the way he gets in front of a defender for a cross rather than waiting in hope for the ball to come to him? Thank God I'm not paying to watch this rubbish.

Ciarán McGlone
34 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:07:11
Missing a couple of glorious chances hardly equates to playing better... they are moving the ball about far better than us.
Phil Wood
35 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:07:30
Wasteful, wasteful, wasteful. Just throwing away chances of European football. Vardy would have had a hat-trick in that half.

Cannot score one-on-one and pass when should shoot and shoot when should pass. Grab the ball to take free-kicks when there are better-equiped players to take them.

Not good enough so far!

Alan J Thompson
36 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:21:41
And that's why he's James, a Class Act!
Alan J Thompson
37 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:36:29
Coleman subbed! And for me he has been our MotM!
Lennart Hylen
38 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:37:29
Palace are dominating. Dreadful in my opinion. Only James is good enough.
Alan J Thompson
39 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:39:25
And now James! What's going on?!?
Lennart Hylen
40 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:47:48
What is this?
Neil Lawson
41 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:54:51
Ridiculous. 2 points utterly squandered.

In Ancellotti we trust. I think not.

I hope he has the courage and honesty to admit he got it horribly wrong. You can not blame him for all the missed chances but his decisions when we were comfortable and winning are totally inexplicable and unacceptable.

Michael Lynch
42 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:55:21
Wasted chances and poor management. Hugely disappointing
Phil Rodgers
43 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:56:12
We are simply a bad team. Poor, weak, negative mentality. Totally fed to of 'em.
Simon Dalzell
44 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:56:30
Real sickener. All those golden chances squandered. 4 in first 20 minutes.

No way Coleman should have gone off.

Thomas Richards
45 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:56:38
Game should have been well over before they scored but you can always rely on Michael Keane to ball-watch.
Neil Lawson
46 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:57:09
And we could have easily lost at the death. Fuming.
Brian Hennessy
47 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:57:39
Game changed when Coleman was taken off. Godfrey looked terrified of Zaha and gave him way too much space.

Having said that, the game would have been over but for the dreadful finishing of Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison.

Alex Gray
48 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:58:10
Sat back after scoring. Deserved everything we got. I've accepted we'll be midtable now. Tonight was the chance to catch up. Bottled it again.
Alan J Thompson
49 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:58:50
If you don't take the missed chances into account then it was a decent performance but it really should have been all over by half time. It must be said that most did well with the exception of Calvert-Lewin who was awful and Sigurdsson who added little.
The game thrown away!
Fran Mitchell
50 Posted 05/04/2021 at 19:59:30
It should have been 4-0.

We simply didn't take our chances, and when we did take the lead, we didn't have the confidence to continue playing on the front foot.

Not good enough.

A better performance for 65 minutes, but the mentality lost us 2 points and with it probably our top-6 chances. A real top 6 team would have seized on the momentum after taking the lead and gone on to win 2/3-nil. But we bottled it and let Zaha run the game from there on in.

Cristobal Aguirre
51 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:00:13
What a manager!!! Amazing subs – he definitely has a masterplan to destroy easy games.

Congrats to Ancelotti, it was very difficult to lose these points! Proud to follow the most cowardly team in the whole world.

Tony Twist
52 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:00:15
Clueless... but did we expect anything less? Pathetic, middle-of-the-league team before Ancelotti's arrival, not much has changed.
Derek Moore
53 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:01:00
Wasteful finishing cost two points. That was it.

I'm a little torn though. If Everton were not involved and I'd watched this game I'd genuinely just put it down to "football" - a result almost predestined. Evidenced by the almost comic difference in the number of high quality chances.

But for Everton, I felt today was important. Today was a test of belief and mental resilience. Not for the first time, this group was once again found lacking.
When you create as many chances as we did today, you will win a lot more than you draw or lose. But that lack of willpower, of grit today sticks in my mind. In my view, more surgery on this squad is required if we're to realistically get much further.

I think we've seen this playing group's ceiling. The investment necessary to get us to the next level looks truly daunting but, with a new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock on the way, what choice does the owner realistically have?

Craig Walker
54 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:01:34
James was head and shoulders above his teammates today. We were awful when he went off. Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison are too profligate to get us into the top 4. A clinical forward line would have won with 3 tonight.

Very frustrating. Again.

Martin Berry
55 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:02:16
Same story all season and we don't deserve European football if we can't take any of the four clear chances we had.

You could see the lack of pace in midfield due to injuries and spot the blue shirt in that area when we broke forward.

After 70 minutes, you could see only Palace were the team that were likely to score.

Frank Crewe
56 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:02:18
They are afraid of success.

Calvert-Lewin only scores sitters. Can't score from outside the box. Shearer he isn't.

Richarlison is too temperamental and should be sold in the summer.

Buy a proper right back and put Coleman out to grass.

A dominating keeper... and get rid of Davies, for fuck's sake.

Joe McMahon
57 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:02:56
Moshiri revolution gallops to another Everton Goodison goal fest. Yes we should have been 3 up at HT, but the negative tactics towards the end had the preditable result. We have been lucky defending some of these awful 1 - 0's but not today.

2 strikers that put chances away are needed in the summer, we can't carry on with Calvert-Lewin missing so many easy chances, it costs us way too many points and goals. Goal difference +3, it's the Moyes Goodison years all over again.

The appointment of Koeman & Walsh has set us back years.

Worst Liverpool season since Dalglish and we will still finish many points below them. More fun at work to look foward to...

Alan McGuffog
58 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:03:01
Here's my perspective. The reds have had their worst season, points wise, for years, but will finish five or six points ahead of us. Everton FC, not the supporters, are more than happy to make up the numbers in the Premier League.

Europe? Maybe, if there's a war.

Ajay Gopal
59 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:03:57
Both Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin had absolute shockers, I thought King should have come at the end to get that extra goal.

One positive is that Gbamin got some minutes, but you see that he was very tentative.

We missed Allan and Doucouré big time in the middle.

On the basis of that performance, I would say we are at the level of Crystal Palace, mid table. Europe! That is laughable.

Thomas Richards
60 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:04:22
Calvert-Lewin & Richarlison cost us the three points at the end of the day.

I have to blame Carlo for the change with Coleman. I could see why he did it but to go like for like with Godfrey taking the Coleman role was a bloomer.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

61 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:04:28
Got what we deserved from that game.

Took control with James' sublime goal - how did he squeeze it in through that solid block of defenders in front of him? - but continued to squander chances.

With one sub already used up in the first half, I fancied James would be one of those withdrawn and giving Gbamin game time, and you can understand bringing on Godfrey for Coleman who played 3 times in the international break.

But it further blunted our already limited attacking threat. Neither Gbamin nor Godfrey played well. Everything good about Everton going forward today came from the boot of James. We didn't manage the game well after his withdrawal and, at this level, a Premier League team only needs one chance to take something from the game.

That said, Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison were both very poor with their finishing today. On the balance of play, the draw a fair result.

We are determined not to land a European place, aren't we?

Tony Hill
62 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:04:30
You could see it coming a mile off. Yet agai,n we lose momentum and control of the game and the rest is inevitable.

What on earth is it about us? Richarlison and Premier League were utterly appalling.

I give up.

Neil Lawson
63 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:04:40
If he had left the 11 on the field who started we would all be celebrating 3 points. Utterly convinced of it.

More fuming than the fumiest fumer in Fumerland. About to ignite.

Paul Birmingham
64 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:05:28
Bad finishing, and game management. Of all the games, and their keeper aside, there's got to better game management and ruthlessness.

Fair play to Palace who played with pace and intensity all night, but the left hand side was open the whole game, so Everton, invited trouble.

The agony, and it's agony, but there's x9 cup finals to play, but tonight Everton, have made their chances very tough now to qualify for Europe.

Now to beat Arsenal away and to beat Spurs.

Sick to the back teeth again and hopefully our away form can pick up at the Emirates.

Tony Hill
65 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:08:35
The point is that we sat back desperately trying to protect the lead – against Crystal Palace – and ceded ground. That is Ancelotti's MO and it's starting to stink, big time.
Brian Williams
66 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:08:50
Five or six clear-cut chances squandered but what cost us the win was our inevitable negative change in play when we went one up. We eased off, backed off, and switched off.

Palace actually played the better looking, joined up, fluent football until they got near our box. We bottled it yet again. Those who blame the substitutions are looking at an easy blame IMO.

Godfrey, who's been one of our best players, and lauded on here, to replace a tiring Coleman? Nowt wrong with that. Replacing a tiring James with Gbamin? Nowt too wrong with that either.

But we basically handed the momentum to Palace, became passive, and paid the price. Same ole same ole.

Alex Gray
67 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:11:53
The irony of it all is that Crystal Palace have a far better bench than us. Too many injuries and simply not good enough. Doucouré and Allan transformed our midfield. We have neither or Gomes now.
Mick Conalty
68 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:12:09
Carlo is becoming a member of the deadwood we need to get shut of.
Cristobal Aguirre
69 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:12:39
I really don't know how we could stay in the Premier League. 47 points is a lot for a team which is allergic to win games.

At the end of the day, we have to be very happy to stay in the top league. No team in the whole world would be able to stay with that mindset.

That become Everton in the best team worldwide. Just imagine any other team including the big six with our players and manager along the last two decades, for sure all of them would be playing in League Two at most.

Bill Fairfield
70 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:13:00
Neville nailed it: every time we get a chance to step up, we don't take it.

We need a better class of player.

Chris Williams
71 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:13:09
Coleman has just played 3 quick games for Ireland and James is just back from an extended absence. That's probably why they were substituted. The bench once again was full of young players and goalkeepers, and lacked options. I'm not clear how Ancelotti could have done much else to change things around.

No point agonising over our sitting back, or blaming Davies or this or that player. We missed enough chances to have put this comfortably to bed inside an hour. Neither Calvert-Lewin nor Richarlison performed anywhere near their potential tonight. Both will play better.

Paul Smith
72 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:13:48
This has been the blueprint for our season. Carlo throws anyone on at any time and we defend a lead immediately, sometimes we hold on and sometimes we don't. If we get into Europe it will be deemed a successful ploy; if we don't, then Carlo will be under pressure.
George Cumiskey
73 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:15:56
100% Carlo's fault with the stupid substitutions he took the two best players on the pitch off we never looked in danger till then !
Tony Everan
74 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:15:56
Very poor finishing from DCL and Richie cost us the points, and very poor defensive substitutions handed Palace the license to attack in the last 15.

It's Crystal Palace not Bayern Munich !, why not use the subs to kill them off and let them worry about us?

Neil Lawson
75 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:16:52
Thank heavens for Exeter Chiefs and the quality, commitment tactics and organisation of their performances, week-in & week-out. They have a proper manager.

Never been an odd-shaped ball follower until recent years with the Chiefs on my doorstep. They kick off just after the National finishes on Saturday. Even if they don't win, it will only be because Leinster play out of their skins and are better on the night (and they are the Shittee of the oval ball game) and it will never be for the want of trying or poor tactical decision making.

Mr Ancelotti, I suggest you watch and learn and in the meantime hang your head in shame.

Tony Hill
76 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:17:58
Chris @71, why shouldn't we agonise about sitting back? It's what we do time after time and the outcome is usually disastrous. So it was tonight.

We are terrified of success and dare not take our chances. Like so much else nowadays, we are dominated by the risk of failure.

Alan J Thompson
77 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:18:59
Some clown saying get rid of Davies! Did you make that up before the game or did you just not watch!

One of the few players always available to take a pass and on the same wavelength with James. I really do give up on some who seem to have some sort of agenda but little power of observation.

Phil Wood
78 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:20:07
This is the most infuriating Everton team I can remember. They can look terrific in spurts but incapable of putting other teams to the sword.

Score one and scuttle into their shell. Hang on for the rest of the game. I am fed up of suffering every match.

I just cannot enjoy this football. No flow, no domination, poor finishing, hanging on every time we take the lead whoever we play. And carelessly blowing the best chance of Champions league we have had for years.

The mediocre teams that have beaten us at home. We should be flying into Europe. This is just not good enough. I expect big changes in the Summer or there is no point building a great stadium to field a mid-table line-up.

Frustrating and pathetic. I don't want to point players out as they have all had ups and downs this season but selection and tactics have left a lot to be desired. Don't get me wrong: I do like Carlo, but a lot of the negative play has been down to him.

Chris Williams
79 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:21:03
Tony,

Not sure that's why we lost the lead mate. You agonise over it if you must, but we should have been comfortably ahead well before the end.

As for 'terrified of success', well no comment on that frankly.

Rob Dolby
80 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:22:01
Poor finishing and even worse subs bit us firmly on the arse.

I thought Coleman was having a great game and didn't deserve to go off, same for Rodriguez.

Godfrey and Gbamin were far too negative subs. A half decent team wins this game by 2 or 3. Shite.

Tony Abrahams
81 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:24:15
A performance that summed up where Everton are right now. Should have won easily on chances created but we lack fluency and, although there were some good performances, you could always see a goal coming for Palace, and you could also see which area of the pitch it was always going to come from.

Coleman was doing well; I thought it was a bad move replacing him, especially because Michael Keane was beginning to get exposed, so maybe that would have been the better sub?

Calvert-Lewin had to score at one-nil, during our best spell of the second half, why didn't he just toe-poke it? But we are a team that needs more craft, and a team that needs more running from deep, just like Lingard has just produced for West Ham there.

Darren H, I just hope you done Rodriguez to score first mate, I hope someone gets something out of tonight's game!

Bill Watson
82 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:24:22
Apart from the dreadful finishing, we were awful in midfield. Injuries aside, this must be a priority for Ancelotti in the summer.

I can't really recall any game which we've dominated and maintained sustained pressure. Usually it's constantly giving up possession with misplaced pass after misplaced pass.

Ian Riley
83 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:25:12
Shame really as results went for us. Goals win games but the subs gave palace confidence. Our home record has cost us Champions League places. Reality is we are not good enough!
Stuart Sharp
84 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:27:20
I don't think we can blame Carlo for bringing off James and Coleman, neither of whom can play 90 minutes at the moment. But we can absolutely blame him for the choice of replacements and the decision to try and see out the game. Especially given the fact that the game was at home to Palace, who rarely attacked until we invited them to.
Lennart Hylen
85 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:28:36
I am very disappointed with the whole team except James who was miles above the others. It was not the best management today... but do not talk about getting rid of Carlo. We will finish 11th at best.
Jim Bennings
86 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:28:43
Looks like we are finishing below Moyes this season anyway, a real kick in the bollox for Moshiri after attracting the top class manager yet 18 months on we look no fitter, no more cohesive than Marco Silva's first season.

Only Everton.

Mike Oates
87 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:29:29
Enough chances fluffed to win 2 matches tonight, couple with some good saves by the Palace keeper.

As far as substitutions, it was a no-brainer that Rodriquez would have been knackered for the rest of the season if he'd stayed on for the 95 minutes. He was always only going to last 70 minutes.

Likewise Coleman played 3 bloody times in last 2 weeks for Ireland and again a fair substitution. Problem was Godfrey is no right-back and Gbamin has only played 120 minutes in the last 20 months.

Richarlison and to lesser extent Calvert-Lewin should have put us 3- or 4-nil up in the first half. and even had reasonable chances in the 2nd half.

Two points, we seem incapable of playing football, it's just defend and counter, why oh why can't we play 1 touch, quick, mobile football like virtually every team has done against us Goodison for last 6 months?

And second: How the hell do we keep getting players injured in training, Allan and Iwobi tonight.

We'll do well to finish 7th, we need at least 3-4 players, midfielders, wide man, all technically good and all with pace.

George McKane
88 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:29:36
There are moments in our lives when we allow a little bit of something to pass or lose attention or sometimes cannot be bothered and in some circumstances that can lead to catastrophic consequences. There are too many half-hearted tackles, passes, attempts by Everton that lead to goals. Players need waking up and being told.

Calvert-Lewin has looked half-arsed for a few months now, trying silly little flicks and kicks... dreadful woeful pathetic finishing in the last few months.

I like Ancellotti but it is now time to show that nice Uncle Carlo can get pissed off as well and be tough. Some dreadful passes this evening when not even under pressure... but, even allowing for that, and for terribly biased refereeing - - time and time again, 1-on-1 misses by Calvert-Lewin – unforgivable.

We should have won... but didn't. It cannot carry on – strong action must be taken. Remeber Catterick dropping Alex Young and a few others for a young Joe Royle because they were not showing enough? Brought them back for the next Cup game... and we won and went on to glory – called Good Management.

Gerry Ring
89 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:31:12
Stuart #84,

I don't agree at all. Seamus is well up to 90+ minutes. His reaction at being substituted said it all. He wasn't showing any signs of running out of steam.

Very negative move by the manager which backfired!!

Paul Jones
90 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:31:40
I found the substitutions perplexing in what has turned out to be a very strange season. Given the succession of chances missed and lack of organisation, I was only surprised we did not have the usual defeat that we specialise in when opportunity beckons.
Jim Bennings
91 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:32:26
West Ham two up already, is it really that hard to get a decent attacking side?
Considering they haven't even spent half the cash we have.
Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:32:48
Rodriguez asked to come off, and I'm sure this was expected anyway considering it was his first match in a long time. The modern game is about pace though and it was something we lacked in certain areas of the pitch tonight, and is why it sums up where we are presently.
Barry Rathbone
93 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:34:43
I tried to watch but half time came and I was so disengaged by 2 outfits playing formula football, I forgot to tune back in. No surprise at the result; we are tidy enough in non-threatening areas but, at the business end, utterly bereft.

Dogs loved their walk though.

Terry Farrell
94 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:35:53
I thought we did lots of good things tonight but squandered chance after chance.

Seamus had Zaha nailed so I was very surprised when he came off. Keane made a complete hash of their goal.

I also thought that Gbamin would only come on if we were 2 or 3 up – not at 1-0. I aappreciate the bench was light but it was a risk that didn't work. good night fellow blues!

Trevor Peers
95 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:36:13
It is pretty obvious the lack of strikers in the squad which has been glaring apparent since the summer is the biggest reason for our pathetic home form. Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin were always going to run out of steam and need resting, but the lack of even an averagely competent alternative has cost us dear indeed.

The net result is a tired-looking squad that can't score even when presented with the easiest of chances. Who to blame is anybody's guess but the responsibility will always fall on the manager. He must rectify the situation in the summer or the pressure will intensify hugely next season.

Colin Glassar
96 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:40:27
It's best to forget European football now. Just take it a game at a time. I think our lot are stressed with all this European talk and need to focus in their Instagram accounts and other social media toys.
Stuart Sharp
97 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:41:30
Gerry #89 – even after all the internationals? He was my MotM, but I fully expected him to get subbed.
Michael Boardman
98 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:43:10
If all we're arsed about is finishing above the RS, then Moyes was enough, as he did that more than once. If we want to win trophies, then is sitting back while 1-0 up against Palace the right way?

I used to dream of a Moyes / Martinez hybrid that would seal the deal and get us to at least 4th... One thing is for certain though, no amount of excuses for missed early chances justify those substitutions today.

Plain and simply "this is rock bottom, so pay me for more, and I'll deliver" springs to mind.

Joe McMahon
99 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:43:16
Trevor @95, I thought we should have gone for Lingard in the last window on loan, but on here that wasn't popular. So King – who doesn't even play – came in. But of Lingard – as tonight shows – he has pace and scores; apparently for many that wasn't good enough for Everton.

What we have with Everton is a very low-scoring mid-table team with zero pace, but with one of the highest paid managers in Europe, which is strange as Europe is one place we never leave a mark.

Jerome Shields
100 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:43:38
I thought the tactics were right, giving Everton numerous chances, but the forwards were not clinical enough. It makes you wonder if Calvert-Lewin ever will be.

It was good to give Gbamin a run out; he looked okay. James, just recovering from an injury, needed to be subbed. If only other players could finish as he does.

Coleman's days of 90 minutes are gone, and never was on after travel to International games. Qatar, a 9-hour flight both ways. . . Holgate played well. Keane was at fault for the goal, ball watching, mis-read the play.

Ancelotti's tactics got Everton at least one point at home, having lost the past two games. King was to be competition for Calvert-Lewin, but recently was relegated to the wing, not being good enough. Richarlison is too predictable, defenders and goalkeepers can predict what he is going to do. There are no other threats on goal other than Sigurdsson. Any set-piece advantage has dried up. Everton are too deep on corners.

I'm still hopeful of a Top-Six finish but the game in hand needs to be converted to 3 points.

Roger Helm
101 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:44:39
Usually it's the midfield who let us down, sometimes the defenders, this time it was the forwards.

Also the manager with his defensive substitutes – surely he knows by now our defenders aren't good enough to protect a one-goal lead.

Tony Abrahams
102 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:45:40
The tactics were alright until we went defensive, Jerome, and then they left too much space between the lines, and down our right-hand side.
Stuart Sharp
103 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:46:54
I agree Joe. The bile directed at Lingard when his name came up was weird. He might not be world class, but right now he is doing what we've seen him do lots of times before, including for England. Not remotely surprising. He was well worth a punt.
Darren Hind
104 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:47:13
Tony A

Yes mate I did get on James to get the first, I owe you a pint for the little nudge. Unfortunately it rings a little hollow right now.

How many times are we Evertonians going to have to get ourselves back up again?

I guess we'll all be back up again for the next one... Tha'ts just what we do, isn't it?

Jay Harris
105 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:47:20
With a combination of half-arsed finishing and outstanding goalkeeping, we contrived to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory. Palace were always in the game with Zaha and Eze running the show.

James was outstanding for short periods in the game but a liability for most of the time.

The mentality of this squad has to be questioned. They go to pieces every time we have a chance of achieving something.

Carlo must be as fed up as us. He didn't miss chances or sit back when we took the lead. It is lack of bravery and ambition on the part of the players.

Michael Boardman
106 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:49:41
Roger, our defence have grinded out some improbable results while at 1-0. It's to be commended while unexpected, but Palace (I repeat, Palace) at home? No, I wouldn't have celebrated even if we had won.
Jason Wilkinson
108 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:52:34
You never get the feeling we are going to put a game to bed. We had enough chances in the 1st half to have been three or four up.

I have been an Ancelotti supporter but my patience with the dull football we are playing is wearing thin. Did we need three at the back? At home to an average Premier League side.

Problem is, when you look at our bench, no-one is setting your pulse racing, thinking get him or them on for 20/30 mins. We need a young fit player in the mould of Grealish, Maddison or Smith Rowe to give us more in the final third.

George McKane
109 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:54:14
I would like to know if anyone at all – at any level – is asking any serious questions inside this Club?
Dave Abrahams
110 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:55:51
We had the chances to win comfortably. How we got the chances was baffling, it wasn't through any tactics that I could see, but we got them and wasted them. We also wasted one of James's very good games, especially in the second half.

One win in the last seven home league games tells you that we are simply not good enough and that goes for the manager, especially with his substitutions making us retreat into defensive mode with 10 players back in our own half inviting the opposition to attack. They can't do anything else but attack; all that does, Carlo, is invite heartburn, constipation and ultimately fuckin' ulcers on us supporters.

Why was King brought to the club? I'm getting on a bit but I can definitely sit on the bench as good as him... ridiculous – like your substitutions tonight and in many games this season. Surely you can do better than this, Carlo, even with this poor squad?

Brian Wilkinson
111 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:57:38
When we bought Godfrey, we played him at right-back for a few games – in each of those games he was nowhere near as rock solid as when we play him in the middle or on the left side... maybe that is Godfreys weakness.

We should have left Coleman on and swapped Godfrey for one of the centre-halves as a like-for-like sub.

We sat back on a lead, took our best two players off; then, when they scored, we quickened up and attacked again.

Have to say poor subs, tactics when leading 1-nil, and a woeful display from out attackers, cost us big time today, cruise control til we made the subs.

Ralph Basnett
112 Posted 05/04/2021 at 20:57:49
Verbal captain!!!!!

West Ham - Noble.
Spurs - Kane.
Liverpool - Henderson.
Chelsea - Azpillacueta.
Man City - Fernandinho.
Man Utd - Maguire.

All in the refs face, everyone's face. Every ref has an easy ride at Goodison Park.

Today we had a free-kick that was overturned because Cahill shouted loudest.

Pat Kelly
113 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:00:46
If only Ancelotti had a team of world class players like West Ham.
Justin Doone
114 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:00:48
Frustrating draw, poor finishing but chances and general creativity improved.

Best thing was probably seeing Gbamin making a comeback, not going to judge him in the 20-ish minutes but he didn't look out of place.

Well done to Palace. They went behind but then looked more of a threat making positive attack-minded subs. We need some of that. A game changing or match winning bench.

We couldn't control the game and, when trying to defend a 1-0 lead, all 3 centre-backs vacate their positions. Once again, a lack of quality and game management.

I don't wan't to waste money plugging a defence when we are crying out for better quality midfielders and forwards but both Mina and Keane are always a liability. I'm always waiting for the next mistake.

Ruined a good weekend.

Colin Glassar
115 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:01:36
Pace. We have no pace! In midfield, we not only lacked physicality and creativity but pace as well. Our players are so slow on the turn. So slow in thought. So weak protecting the ball. So weak passing to each other... but it's the lack of pace that kills us.
David Pearl
116 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:01:43
Joe, if we did get Lingard in January he may or may not have got a game. But he was more of what we needed and is streets above King (who arrived unfit).

Seeing how West Ham are going right now, Moyes has a team that are together, strong and confident and the right amount of cockiness.

Having said that, we really should've won comfortably tonight. Of course we are not out of it but how can we be considered Champions League challengers when we shoot ourselves in the foot? Richarlison deserves to be dropped for his petulance.

Ian Edwards
117 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:04:13
The tactics in the last 15 mins were a disgrace. Fans shouldn't be seduced by Ancelotti's name. Guiseppe Verdi is just Joe Green. He's little more than an Italian Hodgson or Allardyce. The football is dire, the subs are negative.
Tony Hill
118 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:05:00
George @109, no, they're not.

The only hope is that Usmanov gets the club by the throat in the summer.

I am starting to worry, very much, about the manager. There are times when he looks as though he's setting us up properly for an assault but, for the most part, I think he has been negative and dodgy in his tactics.

Jim Bennings
119 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:05:40
Lingard been a typically inspired Moyes signing, plays him every week and has transformed his team.
Jerome Shields
120 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:06:15
Tony #102,

At the start of the second half, Everton went to a five-man defence. I thought this created the space for the Everton counter attack resulting in James's goal. Everton had a rake of chances to finish the game as a result.

They ended up getting done by one defensive error by Keane. He got drawn centrally predicting the ball going across the defence. It was played inside to the space Keane should have been marking instead. He was out of position.

Everton always get out done where the right-back is committed and the ball is played inside, where the space is not marked. 3 times from memory, starting with West Ham. I think it happened with Newcastle and Burnley, all carbon copies. Godfrey committed as Coleman would have done. Keane inexplicably actually turned inside creating more space. I saw it a mile off, Keane's brain was somewhere else.

Colin Glassar
121 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:07:14
Ian, he's still a million miles better than your idol, Moyes. Yes, him. The man who has won sweet FA in his 20-year career.
Peter Mills
122 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:08:04
It was a strange performance, long spells of nothingness interspersed with some excellent football which created sufficient chances to win 3 games.

However our finishing was awful – I have constantly defended Calvert-Lewin but he has been poor for a while. I have consistently questioned Richarlison's footballing intelligence, and he raised more queries against it tonight.

The most disturbing issue is around our attitude. Where was the determination to win? Why didn't the other players tell Richarlison to do one at the free-kick? Why did Gomes pass to a player who was clearly offside? Why so many sloping shoulders at 70 minutes? Why bring on a substitute who hadn't played for 20 months at a crucial stage of the game?

Stephen Vincent
123 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:08:39
The thing that really really annoys me is that our goal difference is beyond awful; we go 1-up at home and, rather than go for the jugular, the manager decides to shut up shop and improve our goal difference by one. We are effectively an additional point behind all the teams above us.
Ian Edwards
124 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:10:23
Colin. I don't like Moyes. But he is a better Premier League manager than Ancelotti.
Tony Hill
125 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:11:11
Jerome@120, I could see that threat down the right, and the threat caused by our pitiful dropping off, on the television. Why couldn't the manager?

It wasn't just about Kean's error, it was about our surrendering space and initiative - yet again.

Stephen Vincent
126 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:12:12
Watching Wolves vs West Ham a proper football match, not the shite that has just been served up for us.
Jim Bennings
127 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:14:07
The trouble is, Ancelotti always managed clubs where the players were so good that they managed themselves.

If you put Mick McCarthy in charge at Man City, they'd probably still win trophies because the players simply self-manage.

Moyes is obviously nowhere near as decorated as Ancelotti but sometimes it's horses for courses and understanding what's required.

In Ancelotti's 18 months in charge, it's clear they haven't worked on physical fitness as we look just as bladdered as we did under Allardyce.

It doesn't take years like some people believe, to get a bunch of professional footballers running and working to a cohesive plan, has it taken Leicester that long? Moyes at West Ham?

I'm underwhelmed that over a year in now under Carlo we don't look any more cohesive than we did two years ago.

Colin Malone
128 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:14:20
He took the two best players off. Coleman was having a great game, James was running the show. If James asked to come off, then he should have been told, "You are staying on" by Carlo.

Is Sigurdsson finished? He hasn't started yet. Another lack-lustre performance.

Paul Hewitt
129 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:16:02
How can anyone blame Carlo for that result? If Calvert-Lewin and Richy had there shooting boots on we would have won easily. The only thing I blame Carlo for is not bringing King on to get a second goal.
Rob Dolby
130 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:16:06
Jerome, we played 5 at the back all game.

Godfrey is as much to blame for their goal as anyone else. He was sent on to defend a lead – not play "After you, Claude" with Zaha.

Michael Lynch
131 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:16:17
Have to agree with Ian, our tactics were appalling from 70 minutes onwards. Is it the players or the manager? I tend to think the latter, he seems to love shutting up shop at 1-0, even when a team is there for the taking. Sometimes it works, but it's a shithouse way to play against a team like Palace who, until we let them take control, looked toothless and inferior.
Colin Glassar
132 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:17:14
Really Ian? Carlo won more in one season in the Premier League than Moyes has in almost 20 years of “trying”.
Paul Birmingham
133 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:20:35
Brighton are playing well, and have a fluid transition of play, with some pace.

Character, character, now is the time for this Everton team, to show some, with steel, guts and belief.

I sense that Gomes will now be out for a few games, does any one know the availability of Allan, for Brighton?

Maybe start with Josh King at Brighton, but if he can do a Wayne Clarke-type cameo (Clarke was a wise buy, by Howard Kendall), in the last 9 games via starting or as sub, then, it's got to be worth a shout.

Energy and efficiency, intelligent use of the ball, but Everton are taking too many passes in most of their offensive play, and in transitional play.

For a team that has aims of the Europa League, they had better start stepping up in the last 9 games or they will spew it in arguably their best chance in years, to qualify for Europe.

Everton, please prove me wrong, and put together an unbeaten winning run, and set a standard to improve for next season.

The beer is kicking in but this is the spectre of Everton tonight; the season is still alive... but only just.

Brian Williams
134 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:20:37
For those bemoaning the subs. Let's take it as read, for the purpose of the question, that Coleman and James had to come off (maybe their computerised feedback systems flagged them up), which is feasable given the circumstances.

Look at the bench and tell me who else you'd have brought on to replace the two that left the field of play instead of the two that came on?

Pat Kelly
135 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:23:56
It wouldn't bother me if Ancelotti (both of them) weren't here next season. I can't see much return for the money he's on. The style (?) of football is mind-numbingly boring and is not taking us forward. But Moshiri has invested too much in him and will be happy with staying in the Premier League. Not a lot to offer the fans though.
Paul Hewitt
136 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:27:59
Carlo has never taken over a club in such a terrible state before. It's going to take him time to get the crap out, and his own players in. Allan, Rodriguez and Godfrey haven't been bad buys, have they?
Colin Glassar
137 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:28:39
Brian, the only mistake (IMO) was putting Godfrey, and not Holgate, at right-back. Mason is much more experienced there.

99% wanted to see Gbamin get some game time and now it's being criticised? To be honest, I'd have pulled Davies off and let James carry on.

Henrik Lyngsie
138 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:30:14
I don't understand people complaining about the two subs in second half. James was done and it was quite logical to move Gylfi a bit further forward and play Gbamin next to Davies. I assume that Coleman was subbed because of fatigue as well. So I don't blame Don Carlo for the subs.

Apart from the obvious that we should just put our many chances away, I think we are poor defending with the ball.

Against a team like Crystal palace we should be able to defend a lead by keeping possession. But we kept just giving the ball away in the last 20 minutes. Again I think we have two many defensive players who are not comfortable on the ball. Holgate, Keane, Mina and Davies are just not cool enough under pressure and ends up giving the ball away. That way we ended up defending all the time against a team like Palace.

A special mention for Richarlison. A real pity that he did not score a few goals. Because I thought his performance was excellent. He works so hard both ways. He makes really good runs and he finds the chances. I know he is having this attitude that annoys a few people. But his work rate and effort you can't question.

Also a special mention for James. I am sure his agent will be on the phone with Carlo tommorow. There is a clause in James contract that he is not supposed to use his right food and then the Captain forces him to use the right foot with a poor pass.

Kieran Kinsella
139 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:30:17
If the goalie makes a clanger, we all say "damn the goalie," if the strikers similarly fail at the basics of their tasks we say "damn the... manager"? How does that logic work?

On the subs point, we all know James is 60 minutes twice a month max and he will just sit down and sub himself off if the manager won't. So him going off was inevitable.

King has been utterly useless for the last couple of years at every club and every level so I wouldn't have brought him on either.

As for Coleman, I don't know. I don't think that switch helped us any to say the least but their are differing opinions over his fitness and I am not privy to the truth on that.

Stephen Vincent
140 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:30:50
Paul #129, so the entire team thought as one, Palace are awful we'll sit this out and hang on for a 1-0.
Grant Rorrison
141 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:31:50
I'm no fan of negative football but this game should have been over long before the last quarter-of-an-hour anyway. We missed far too many chances.

That said, I think the standard of football over the last few seasons (even before Carlo Ancelotti) has been terrible given the money invested. Why are we unable as a club to move forward?

Ian Burns
142 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:31:52
Stephen, I agree Wolves vs West Ham, a far better game served up by two teams who make us look like the mid-table team we are.

I am a big fan of Carlo but I am really beginning to wonder if he is losing his way. This evening wasn't his first set of strange substitutions and I am in despair at watching us give teams so much of the ball, it does nothing for the nerves watching us play.

Crystal Palace looked far more energetic than we did this evening. Yes, we created chances but that doesn't excuse the negative substitutions for the final 15 minutes. Disappointed, even my Easter Eggs taste sour!

Pat Kelly
143 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:32:00
Godfrey reportedly was Brands's pick. Allan and James are proven but injury-prone. Will either of them be here in two years time given age and injuries?
Jim Bennings
144 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:32:00
Colin 132

That's because he inherited world class players all at their peak at Chelsea between 2009-11, the likes of Terry, Lampard, Cole, Drogba ect ect, the same era that Moyes was forced to scrape around signing the like of Straqualursi and Vellios.

Comparison's aren't always black and white when you study the bigger picture.

Chris Leyland
145 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:32:01
I've been a big supporter of Ancelloti but it's hard to defend tonight's result. It was all too predictable.

With 15 mins to go, we sat back and seemed content to hoof it clear and give them the ball straight back. They had pace to run at us and we allowed it to happen. They exposed Godfrey at right back (his worst position across the back) and Keane's oil tanker-like ability to turn.

We badly missed Allan and Doucouré tonight but the tactics for that last 15 mins were all wrong. Whether it's the manager or the players or indeed both, the attitude needs to change. The fear of winning at home is becoming habitual and has cost us a chance of European football which the club desperately needs to kick on.

Christy Ring
146 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:33:43
Carlo had only one of his signings starting tonight, Allan and Doucouré were badly missed in midfield, but our two forwards really should have had us out of sight.
Mike Connolly
147 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:34:13
After fans the other week saying we've 3 winnable games, I said that we'll be lucky to get three points. Also, we would finish 9th. I think that was a bit optimistic, because I doubt we will win any games left this season.

Our game plan is very slow and relies on clinical finishing. The front players are nowhere near that standard.

I just watched a bit of Wolves vs West Ham and we are well away from West Ham and light years away from top 6 teams.

It would be easy to blame Carlo. However, this is the same shite that has been served up to us for years. There is something rotten in the club and who ever takes over is unable to make a difference.

Mal van Schaick
148 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:34:30
As long as we were only 1-0 up, there was a chance for Palace to get their goal. As others have said, this game should've been out of sight before 70 minutes.

I still struggle to see enough quality in midfield for the owner's ambitions and we need other quality options up front.

If we can finish the season strongly and be top six, that's progress, but to take it to the next level, we need a summer transfer review.

Jack Ledwidge
149 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:34:58
How many times this season have we watched and been excited about the game we are playing? I'd say 4: Spurs, Leicester away, Fulham away in the 1st half, and Liverpool away.

We have 2 major problems. We have a manager that gets more joy out of a 1-0 win than pressing for a 2nd and winning in style; and we've a midfield that's short on both guile and energy. Continually we sit back and allow teams gain confidence and pass around us. This is repetitive week after week.

Whilst our players maybe don't have the legs, I believe it's coached into them not to make mistakes or take chances. There is little or no expression or free flowing football coming from us. Carlo must be given another 2 transfer windows. If we are still performing at this level, then it's bye-bye, Carlo.

Colin Glassar
150 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:36:16
And he's inherited a bunch of average misfits at Everton, Jim. He's trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear – I believe that's the expression.

He's either given the tools or we continue to search for a saviour who can turn shit into gold.

Stuart Sharp
151 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:36:46
Brian,

So at 1-0 with the game finely poised, you'd bring on a guy who hasn't played a minute all season and try to hold on? Rather than, say, bring on King and try to keep the ball at the other end?

King has a bit of pace and strength. And cannot possibly have scored fewer goals than Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin tonight. We spent most of the last 20 minutes in our own half. Even when we did have the ball, there was no urgency.

I am generally a Carlo fan and, on balance, am glad he's here. But that kind of game makes me really wonder. We really did just encourage Palace to equalise. I'm sure most of us could see what was coming.

Rob Dolby
152 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:37:46
Brian @134. We didn't have alternatives on the bench. We could have changed shape and played 1 up top for the last 20 and put Richarleson left mid, going 4-5-1.

Godfrey is a defender, he isn't a wingback. Both of our subs impacted the game negatively.

We wouldn't be moaning about subs if either of the strikers could finish chances. Oh and why did Gomes pass to Richarlison in an offside position in a 3 vs 2! Frustrating night.

Ernie Baywood
153 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:40:20
We created a lot of chances before finally going ahead... but that doesn't equate to "we should have been three up".

Because you know if we'd gone ahead after 20 minutes then we'd have stopped functioning as an attacking force from that point.

I can't understand it. There was bad finishing, good goalkeeping and some bad luck. But this is a team that is good enough to attack the lesser lights. And it's not a team that can afford to sit back against them. Yet we keep on playing to the opposition's strengths when we go ahead.

It had draw written all over it.

Ian Riley
154 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:43:45
Please don't compare Moyes at Everton and Carlo at Chelsea! The comparison is not close. Moyes did a great job with what he had and yes I believe he would do better than Carlo is doing with this squad. My rationale is Carlo needs better players to formulate his style of play which we don't have.

Today's game was typical of our season at home. Carlo needs time and his players.

Joe McMahon
155 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:43:58
Jack@149,

You forgot to the mention Everton trademark: Non-Scoring Strikers. What we would do to have Lukaku... but yes, that ship has sailed.

Martin Mason
156 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:48:20
Firstly, we aren't capable of playing 3 at the back with wing backs and, as a result, had a disadvantage by strategy. We badly miss Allan and Doucouré and Tom Davies is not as good as a midfielder rather than his best position as a withdrawn No 6 in a normal formation. We then have Sigurdsson come on into midfield and, like Tom, he just can't play there so what chance do we now have?

In the end, it was, for me, a good game against a fairly good Palace side who deserved their point. Our point was okay and on chances squandered it could have, unfairly, been 5-1. We are a totally unbalanced side with key players unavailable and completely missing a couple of full-backs.

The concept that we played in a cowardly way is so stupid it burns. Both sides went for the win and for us it was an improvement on recent home results.

Fair result and bring on the next game.

Stan Michaels
157 Posted 05/04/2021 at 21:55:03
Europe over. We had a chance and we have blown it... yet again. I've never seen a Premier League team with a mentality as weak as ours. Individuals have cost us tonight. Ancelotti substitutions, Calvert-Lewin's inability to handle a situation when it comes to one-on-one, and Richarlison being more cold than hot.

We've put this on ourselves. We genuinely rely on other teams around us to drop points but yet fail to capitalise on them dropped points. We have blown it massively in my opinion. We actually don't deserve Europe. We've massively over-achieved this season.

It's great looking good off the pitch. But on it, we are genuinely frightened to handle the opportunity to move forward. I don't expect anything more from this team from now to the end of the season. Slowest team in the league and most inconsistent team in the league by a country mile.

Same old, same old Everton.

Kevin Prytherch
158 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:00:27
Same posters who are criticising Tom Davies on the matchday thread for running the whole of the central midfield once Gomes went off are defending Carlo.

I would give Carlo next season, but there needs to be some serious improvement in his mentality.

Bill Fairfield
159 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:00:51
Carlo has signed some class players this season but, when they can't play regularly, he's just left with the stale bread he started with.
Phil Smith
160 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:02:00
It's official. This is the most frustrating Everton team to watch. I can't anymore.
Oliver Molloy
161 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:02:06
I desperately want Ancelotti to succeed at Everton, I think he really gets the clubs history and the fans but there is no getting away from the fact that next season will be massive one for him; if results like this keep happening, I'm not so sure he will see out his contract.

This is not his side yet, and Moshiri will back him in the transfer window, but results need to improve; otherwise, it will be back to drawing board for our owner once again.

We just haven't got the "game changers" in our squad to really make a difference when called upon from the bench.

Signing King has proved to be a major fuck-up and shows just how short we are. Calvert Lewin and Richarlison guilty of missing great chances tonight. Both need some decent competition, the same way Pickford did.

Anybody else think that it's like – since we won the derby – the team have just switched off?

Alex Winstanley
162 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:03:33
I just want this season to be over now. It's the bloody hope that kills you! Put me out of my bloody misery now please!
Paul Birmingham
163 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:04:19
Jerome @120, spot on and not for the first time this season, Keane, opened the door and in this game let Palace in for a goal, their endeavour deserved, but with better professionalism in the box, Everton, could have had boxed off after half time.

You could say that the threat was always there down the left hand side and tactically, this was the fine line, but the chances, which Everton made were not put away by Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison, but the lack of goals from across the squad tells its own story.

Fine margins, the old cliche, but it's becoming lack-lustre and to win the Brighton game, Everton, need to believe, and play for 96 minutes. It will be interesting to see who starts that game.

Next season is a long way off, but there's gonna be an interesting window for Everton, Euros and all, and getting deals done in good time won't be easy for any club.

Kunal Desai
164 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:04:44
Don't think it's such a bad thing to miss out on Europe. We need to bring in further quality to be able to rotate in different competitions. We don't have anywhere near the quality of personel to be able to do that.

Go again stronger next season with more options to make a difference.

Joe McMahon
165 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:06:25
Oliver, I can't even get any satisfaction from that. We won at Anfield the same season Burnley, Brighton and Fulham did. If Villa beat us, we are behind them as well. The club is still a rotten shambles.
Sean O’Hanlon
166 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:11:10
Not read any posts; Everton – you're shite. Ancellotti, you're shite.

A fucking disgrace.

Any posts in defence of this performance will be binned.

Stephen Vincent
167 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:12:36
Kunal, it's Catch-22: no europe – no quality in-coming.
Martin Mason
168 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:13:28
You fans need to get a grip of yourselves; we are a club in massive transition with a new manager who has inherited a dreadful squad that possibly needs maybe 5 years to fully rebalance.

Support the club in its efforts and don't whine about the position we are in now; it is very much temporary and just a step on our path back to greatness. The positive lights flash massively Red.

Brendan McLaughlin
169 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:15:30
Stephen #162,

We brought in a bit of quality this season with no Europe on offer.

Andrew Ellams
171 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:16:08
If Ancelotti watched that and some of the other shocking performances and thinks Koulibaly should be his top priority in the summer, he's surely losing the plot. The team is so short of attacking quality and depth – it's terrifying.
Ian Edwards
172 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:16:18
Next two home games are Spurs and Villa. If the Dinosaur tries to park the bus in those games, the results will be very ugly.
Paul Birmingham
174 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:19:24
It's gonna have to be wins all the way as Everton's goal difference effectively does count with the teams around them, all having better goal differences by a long way.

But Bob Hope, Blind Hope and No Hope this season will still pull off some more strange results, and not all in Everton's games. The resurrection of a winning mentality and form must start at Brighton, and then beat Arsenal and Spurs back to back to get back in contention.

Who knows...

Robert Tressell
176 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:20:50
This keeps us very firmly on course for the inevitable 6th to 9th finish.

Ancelotti is a really good manager – but he seems at his best with the real talent. He's not a 'get a tune out of a load of shite' type of guy. With our Poundland bench and threadbare first 11, it's not a great match. I think that's why he's giving off these Walter Smith vibes when we play an underdog at home.

I believe in Ancelotti but he obviously needs better players to work with.

Oliver Molloy
177 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:22:10
Martin, we should be well capable of beating the likes of Palace, Burnley, Newcastle, Fulham

I can't see us beating Brighton, Villa, Spurs or Arsenal.

Paul Hughes
178 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:22:34
Well... Keane, Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison had absolute shockers. Gomes needs a brain transplant. Holgate looked half decent – he should never be put at right-back ever again.

Bewildering substitutions – all the Palace threat was coming down their left, so removing our only right-back, however tired, was asking for trouble.

Davies lost the ball almost catastrophically on a couple of occasions, but always showed for the ball and usually found forward space.

James showed what he is - class.

Heaven knows where we go from here – if strikers can't take chances, everything else is pretty pointless.

Martin Mason
179 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:26:02
Edwards @172.

Do you mean like he didn't today?

Jerome Shields
180 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:26:46
The other issue I have is with Everton's set-pieces, particularly corners. Everton's attacking line now appears to be a line as far as the penalty spot out from the opposition goal. This is where Mina and Keane should be and are to run in on incoming crosses attacking goal.

What are Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin doing there when they should be in on goal, blocking the goalkeeper, poaching?

Digne and Colman were out that far as well, when they should have been at the near and far post. It was as if these four players where taking account of the offside rule, which does not exist at corners.

It made the runs of attackers easily defended. There is no way they were coached to take up those positions at Finch Farm. As a result, Everton were no threat whatsoever at set-pieces. . . and haven't been in recent games.

Ian Edwards
181 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:26:56
Robert.

Ancelotti is reponsible for that bench. He selected it. He got rid of a number of our experienced squad players. He has had 3 transfer windows to put a bench together. Kean, Walcott, Tosun and Bolasie have all gone. None brilliant but all better than the subs we have and could change a game and run at tired defenders.

Ian Edwards
182 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:28:49
Mason @172. He did park the bus after 75 mins and it cost us 2 points.
Brian Wilkinson
183 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:30:52
If we look at the bigger picture, our opening 6 games with our strongest 11 all playing, we picked up maximum points. Then we had firstly Richarlison suspended; then it followed with injuries to Allan and Rodriguez; we got Allan back and Doucouré gets injured, along with Rodriguez again.

We have never had our strongest 11 available for any single match since the Goodison derby, so we have to go along with the players that were already here, and we all know some of those are just not good enough.

A couple of signings in the summer, and Lady Luck on our side for once, on the injury front and we have the makings.

The big problem is our backup outside the strongest 11 is just not good enough.

Kieran Kinsella
184 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:32:12
Some people even complained about Walter Smith when ToffeeWeb started. There have always been a few moaners on here
Sam Fitzsimmons
185 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:33:09
Stuart #151,

I'm with you, While pleased to see Gbamin back on the pitch, I thought bringing him on with 20 minutes to go was a generous gesture by Ancelotti but misguided if the plan was to defend a slender lead. I suppose it further highlights the lack of quality and squad depth, which has been there for all to see for much of the season.

Completely deflated by this result.

Geoff Williams
186 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:33:34
Some very poor performances tonight but, the longer the season goes on, the more I think we need a manager with a future – not one with a past. If a manager is judged on results, then Ancellotti isn't a very successful Everton manager.
Roger Helm
187 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:34:38
Managers are important but players are more important. Carlo inherited a lot of overpaid rubbish and it will take a few windows to get them out and his players in. His recruitment so far I think has been very good.

A few more of the quality of Allan, Doucouré, James and Godfrey and we may see a competitive team emerge.

Bill Gall
189 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:36:45
Jim #127,

Your question on it doesn't take years to get a bunch of players, as some people believe, to get a bunch of professional footballers running and working in a cohesive plan.
Using three clubs on time taken and you quote 2: First, Leicester won the Premier League in 2016 and have had ample time to improve the squad by buying and selling.

Next, West Ham; yes, they are doing well but haven't won anything yet, and they signed their manager in November 2017 who has had a number of windows to sort his squad out.

The major club that shows it is not easy to win the Premier League or try, is Man City. Bought in 2008 to become the richest club in the Premier League, they spent a couple of seasons buying top class players and managers but it took until 2012 before they won the Premier League.

So, to answer your question, it does take a number or seasons and transfer windows to get a squad of players running and working in a cohesive plan.

End of last season, there was not one person who didn't say our major recruitment had to be in the midfield. Two of the players we signed were missing today, and we all are aware that we don't have the players in the squad to replace them, and the negative comments today are overlooking the fact that the players we have been relying on never came good, and that was our strikers.

Ancelloti has the reputation of being a world class manager that he earned, and I am sure neither himself and the rest of the staff never expected their strikers to miss so many opportunities and not put at least 1 or 2 goals in the net.

Most people ore blaming the substitutions but, in James's case, I don't believe he has ever played the full 90 minutes in any game and he was hacked around the ankles a few times without help from the referee, plus has not played for a number of weeks with an injury. Coleman played in the Internationals last week and also had just started playing after injury.

The tactics were okay but, as a manager, you can't do a lot once the team step over the white line and players get injured early.

Stephen Vincent
190 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:41:04
Brendan #169,

Doucouré and Godfrey had just been relegated, James is on record as saying he came for Ancelotti, and Allan probably wasn't going to get a game at Napoli. Not saying they are not quality but if we try to sign, say, Aarons – who will have just been promoted and the competition for him are all in Europe – we will be the bottom of the pile.

Jerome Shields
191 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:42:30
Paul #163,

When I've seen it in other games, I did blame it on the runner into that space not being followed by an Everton player from outside the box. I now know in each occasion Keane did not defend that near post space, which is his role. That has cost Everton 4 points in the Premier League. The West Ham game was an FA Cup game. In other words, a Top Four place. Every one of those goals was the same. The Everton right-back committed; the loose ball is passed into the near-post space the runner had run into, making an unchallenged cross or shot.

Carlo will be glad of the point – what manager wouldn't be with defending and finishing like that? If Carlo can keep getting a point a home and maybe a lucky 3 points, the away form may carry Everton through, starting with Brighton.

I am not as optimistic as you regarding the Summer transfer Window. I think at best there will be two additions. King has been a big disappointment. How no-one at the medical did not pick up on how out of condition he was, I don't know. . .

I think Carlo filled Calvert-Lewin with the Inzagi touch to get him into position. But Calvert-Lewin is either getting into position or is this side of Mars close to Inzagi's touch.

Richarlison is predictable. He will push the ball right and shot across goal. . . In the Premier League, they will definitely have caught that on and it is obvious defenders and goalkeepers are comfortable with it.

I do think that Carlo will get a Top Six finish, but it will take next year to get any higher.

Steavey Buckley
192 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:51:35
Both Richarlison and Dominic Calvert-Lewin lacked urgency, intensity and accuracy when in front of goal tonight, which comes about when players become lethargic about their playing futures with Everton.
Ian Edwards
193 Posted 05/04/2021 at 22:52:27
Mason 188.

You're posting absolute tosh. It was clear to all and sundry and generally agreed on the Live Forum that we sat back.

Ancelotti took off James (an offensive player) and brought on Gbamin (a holding player that hasn't played for 2 years). The team then sat deep to try and hold on to the lead.

You must have fallen asleep after half-time.

Robert Tressell
194 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:00:26
Claiming Ancelotti has had three windows is daft. He's had one window where he's had a say in the signings and money was spent.

Had January been a proper window, then we wouldn't have signed Josh King, who Ancelotti clearly thinks is garbage.

That is not Ancelotti's bench. That bench is the culmination of a seriously bad recruitment strategy over about 5 years.

John Raftery
195 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:06:26
Last eight in the League Cup, last eight in the FA Cup and we fight for 8th in the Premier League. That is where we are and will continue to be until we can build not a team but a squad of younger players with the appetite, pace, power and talent to compete with the top clubs.
Jerome Shields
196 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:09:56
Ian #193,

Everton sat back so that they could counter-attack, which they did, creating chances and a goal. It was the finishing and a defensive error that undid Everton. The substitutions did not contribute to either of these failings.

David Pearl
197 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:12:08
John,

By the looks of things, we need players for right now. I would change the focus and bring in proven talent such as your Koulibali, Rabiot, Isco, Bailey and that Real Madrid wing-back. All of them have 4 years miminum and we can find the younger players the following season.

I think we have enough young and improving players. We also need more goals. A lot more. Calvert-Lewin failed today... and it wasn't a high-pressure game. It was vs Palace and he bottled it.

Ian Edwards
198 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:12:35
Robert @149.

Rubbish. He has been in charge for three windows; if he hasn't got the players he needs, then that is his fault.

He was also in charge when he got rid of Kean, Walcott, Tosun, Bolasie and Simms who could all have been on the bench tonight.

He was also in charge when we signed King. He's the manager and the buck stops with him.

Tom Bowers
199 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:16:48
It's hard to fathom why Everton's defence cannot hold out against a team like Palace.

One could understand if it were Man City, Man Utd or Liverpool... but Palace??? Come on, Carlo!

There is obviously something wrong with Everton's marking, tackling and overall closing down that has been a feature of so many disappointing results this season and it's hasn't shown any signs of improving as the season goes on.

I, for one, cannot wait for the season to end because, despite hovering outside the top four, we have generally been very unimpressive, especially on our own patch. I have never seen us have so many disappointing results at Goodison.

Maybe it's time to think that Carlo is no longer the man for the job unless he starts acknowledging he needs new blood to replace the underachievers getting overpaid in the squad?

John Raftery
200 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:21:06
Without Allan and Doucouré, all of last season's weaknesses have predictably resurfaced in midfield, not just tonight but in previous games.

The lack of viable options on the bench is evidence of how much work needs to be done in terms of squad strengthening. This will take time and money.

Soren Moyer
201 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:22:18
These players need a ruthless, no bullshit type of gaffer to manage them – not a friendly, happy chappy fella like Carlo!

How are we going to attract better players when we are not in a European competition? Bare in mind that next season it won't be as easy to get into the top 4.

Also, what's with this '80s Italian football Ancelotti is trying to play!!?

Colin Glassar
202 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:30:19
Jesus, Ian, between your blind devotion to Moyes and your obsession with the likes of Walcott, Tosun and the much maligned Kean (by several ToffeeWebbers), I'm starting to think you might not be right in the head.

You, Soren, Jonathan T et al need to start group therapy to work out your issues regarding Carlo.

Rob Halligan
203 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:32:27
Well said, Colin. Keep it up, mate.
Brent Stephens
204 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:33:22
Ian #198,

"Kean, Walcott, Tosun, Bolasie and Simms who could all have been on the bench tonight."

What?! Kean who blew his chances at Goodison! Tosun and Bolasie who couldn't deliver!

Simms? Simms! Have you watched the lad?!

Roman Sidey
205 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:34:04
Richarlison isn't a striker and Calvert-Lewin isn't a footballer. That's why Everton aren't in the top 4 right now.

I cannot see how King or any striker who's ever scored a goal would miss as many opportunities as England's current striker.

Paul Birmingham
206 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:37:30
John at 200, agreed. There's 9 games left, so let's see the results and final position at the end of this campaign. Let's see the TW threads after the Brighton game, and the next etc.

Moshiri and the board and Ancelotti's management team will have a business plan, but it will take time and so let's see after a full season how Ancelotti, as any manager (Mike Walker aside), can be fairly judged.

Soren Moyer
207 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:42:19
What is the matter, Colin? Did we hit a nerve... lol? You will eventually see we were right.
Barry Williams
208 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:47:35
Well, here's my take, for what it is worth.

That game should have been put to bed early on, but things like this happen in football. Ancelotti said we'd play more attacking beforehand, and so it proved. However, the strikers fluffed their lines tonight and to me it looked as simple as that.

I am disappointed as this Everton team, more often than not, seem to let chances to progress go begging, which brings me onto my next point: the make up of the team.

The squad is made up from the recruitment of 6 managers: Moyes, Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Silva and Ancelotti. The team tonight was recruited at various points by all of those mentioned, bar Allardyce.

Ancelotti has been in charge for 15 months, during what is probably the weirdest season and a half ever: it really is unprecedented. Only 2 of the starters tonight were brought in under his watch. The team had injuries to Allan, Doucouré, Iwobi, Bernard, Delph, Pickford and then Gomes. It looked like Davies was not fully fit, but had to be played due to the lack of alternatives.

The players out on loan may or may not have made a difference. However, Walcott has been injured and hardly set the world alight; Bolasie has hardly set the world a light in a lower division; Tosun is injured again; Gordon isn't getting much game time in a lower league; Banigime isn't even being considered at Derby; Kenny seems to be doing okay at Celtic; the only one doing well is Kean, and he seemed to want to move. Even the guy who bought him didn't play him often either.

Considering that, and Financial Fair Play rules, and the injures–- for which I feel we have been unlucky – we are pretty threadbare at the moment.

I am not an Ancelotti apologist, I have no idea if he is the right guy for the job, but, given that he has been in it less than a year and a half, during a pandemic, with no fans allowed in the stadium, hampered by spending restrictions because of the profligacy of the managers before, then I am still giving him a chance.

Simple as that. He really did inherit a real bunch of serial underachievers that have let the fans down continuously before; he is a manger, not a magician. This job will take time.

Also chaps, I know there is passion, but a little bit of the bile out there tonight is unsavoury. We are all a bit disappointed, we all have different takes on things, but some of the insults are unnecessary me thinks. Just my opinion.

Brent Stephens
209 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:52:43
"Everton squander more points in the agonizing slog for European football".

Squander is the operative word. I watched and posted simultaneously on Live Forum: "missed chance", "missed chance", "missed chance" ad nauseum. We should have been light-years ahead even before half-time.

John Keating
210 Posted 05/04/2021 at 23:54:36
The pathetic finishing from both our strikers cost us that game. It should have been over at half-time.

So now we need Tosun, Bolasie, Walcott, Kean and Simms!!!!!! Any of whom could have come on and turned the game for us!

Unbelievable — you couldn't make that up!!!

Rob Halligan
211 Posted 05/04/2021 at 00:01:33
Seems like Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison are the main culprits for "missing chances" tonight. I've always wondered what a goalkeeper is for? Ah, that's right, to prevent the ball entering his net.

Yes, maybe Calvert-Lewin should have done better with his first one, but the keeper was right on the edge of the penalty area before the ball reached Calvert-Lewin and blocked it. His second one, the keeper was out quick to smother.

The only really bad one I'd say was Richarlison's when he nearly went round the keeper (did he get a hand to it?) before coming back inside again but his shot was smothered by the keeper. Frustrating for all of us, but give the palace keeper credit. Had that been the other end, we'd all be saying great goalkeeping by Olsen.

Stan Michaels
212 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:02:07
Sad thing is Brighton will twat us next week.
Colin Glassar
213 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:02:52
They can and they do, John.

Kieran Kinsella
214 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:03:11
I guarantee if roles were reversed and Moyes and his squad were here and fifth with Carlo and our squad 7th at West Ham, people would complain.

They'd say that West Ham attract world class players like James, who they'd pay to watch alone. They'd say West Ham had amazing young talents in Calvert-Lewin and Godfrey. They'd say Moyes was hitting his glass ceiling at Everton with his journeyman team, led by a full-back turned striker.

Nicholas Ryan
215 Posted 05/04/2021 at 00:04:33
What I think gets people so angry, is that so much of Everton's trials and tribulations are self-inflicted. It's not as though we are thrashed mercilessly by superior opposition; only against Man City have I thought "they're just on a whole different level".

We draw and lose games, often because of a misplaced pass, or a bit of confusion in the back line. We fail to clear our lines in the 94th minute, or we give away a stupid foul in the 89th minute.

I can't help thinking that 100% concentration for 90+ minutes in every game this season might have yielded half-a-dozen more points. It's this, that has people tearing their hair out.

Phil Lewis
218 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:21:23
Ancellotti's substitutions baffled me.

We lost our shape after Gomes went off hurt. Sigurrdson once again strolled around as if playing in a testimonial game. Gbamin should only have been introduced had we been 3 goals up. Coleman had arguably been our best player, why replace him?

The strikers were woeful. There was no clinical edge. We were sloppy in finishing apart from James's strike.

Jesse Lingard has been the catalyst to West Ham's success story this year. Our season could have been so different had we secured his services. That's exactly the type of player we need. Fellas laughed at me when I suggested going for him when he was out of favour with Man Utd at the beginning of the year.

Kieran Kinsella
219 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:22:00
Ian Edwards,

“Gary Lineker dragged us down." "Graham Stuart is in our all time worst 11.” Those were among the comments on the forum tonight. Are you sure you want to highlight the forum as the fountain of knowledge?

Kieran Kinsella
220 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:25:14
Rob Halligan,

You mean to say we had opponents tonight? Next you'll be telling me they had a 㿲 million forward most on here wanted us to sign. I thought we were just playing ourselves based on the hysteria.

Stan Michaels
221 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:25:57
Looking at these players we have now:

Calvert-Lewin: He's done well this season, you cannot take that away from him. But I've never seen a striker panic as much as him when he is one v one with a goalkeeper. Still has a long long way to go before being a "top" striker.

Richarlison: Either hot or cold. When he is hot, he is scoring for fun, creating something out of nothing, and getting involved with chances. However, when he is cold, it's almost like a inexperienced 16-year-old kid. Throws his dummy out, doesn't want to know, and erratic. I mean the free-kick incident was embarrassing but, to be honest, where the fuck was the captain???

Gomes: There is only so much you can blame on an injury. Let's be honest – he is shite. Slow, at times lazy and terrible decision-making. 㿂 Million down the drain.

King: What was the actual point in signing him? Like seriously??? Clearly not gonna get enough minutes, clearly not gonna start, and clearly not good enough if Bournemouth wanted to get rid.

Holgate: Average player with a huge ego. Never a good sign.

Davies: He's not done too bad this season. But, if we are to move forward, I am sorry but he cannot be a part of this team.

Sigurdsson: Only when he is arsed. Very consistent at pointing around the pitch. Very inconsistent in everything else.

I'll go on to the rest later. But, my god, we are literally our own worst enemy. I like Carlo but his substitutions this season have been atrocious at times. As great as it was to see Gbamin back, he should never have came on with us 1-0 up. If we were cruising by 3 or 4, then yes. Michael Keane was to blame for the goal. Pathetic defending.

I genuinely have no confidence in this team anymore, no desire to look forward to the game, especially during a tough period. I should be excited that we're playing knowing that a win would take us 2 points behind 4th with a game in hand. But I can't because I support a team whose players mentally tap-out before a ball has even been fucking kicked. West Ham want Europe, Liverpool want Europe, Chelsea want Europe... and, simple as, we don't.

Fear of taking control again. Lessons not learned and, worst of all, no leaders at all. Same old same old.

I'm not arsed about the stadium, not arsed about sponsorships deals. I am arsed about what happens on the pitch and how we can compete rather than shit our shorts.

What is the point of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum when the club don't take it seriously themselves???

Rob Halligan
222 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:27:40
Phil #218.

Not disagreeing with what you say about Lingard, but had we signed, or attempted to sign him, plenty on here would have been in uproar. "Not another Man Utd has-been, reject" etc.

Now that he's doing well for West Ham, plenty are now criticising the club for not signing, or attempting to sign him.

Only thing is, he's only on loan at West Ham, and it's very likely Man Utd will want him back, seeing as Cavani is off in the summer. Either that or they will slap a hefty 㿞M transfer fee on his head!

Kieran Kinsella
223 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:31:01
Phil,

I didn't want Lingard based on recent form and he admitted himself he'd lost focus due to family problems. In fairness, he's got himself together and proved myself and others who'd written him off as being mistaken. Good luck to him. I hate to see talent wasted.

Rob Halligan
224 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:31:45
Kieran, it's a funny old game. The other team try and stop you from scoring, whilst at the same time they try and score past you. I wish they would fuck off and just let us score and let us win!
Peter Thistle
225 Posted 06/04/2021 at 01:25:39
It's a simple fix (if you have the cash). Buy a quality striker, for fuck's sake!

Calvert-Lewin missed 3 clear chances, Richarlison missed a similar amount. They don't score enough for us to compete with other teams, it's just not good enough. :/

Derek Thomas
226 Posted 06/04/2021 at 02:03:08
You don't take your chances, then try to sit on a 1-0, with what must be the worst bench in the league... a centre-back carrying a knock, an Icelandic snail, a guy who hasn't kicked a ball for 3 years, 2 goalies and some kids... you're not going to get lucky every time.

Palace didn't have to up it much to score – but they did. Everton wouldn't've had to up it much either, but they couldn't.

Is some of it Ancelottis fault? You could make a case either way...toss of a coin.

Ultimately – especially with no fans booing in the stadium to put pressure on both manager and Chairman – it comes down to Moshiri's patience... I don't see it running out any time soon though.

How long that will last is the key question.

Is it right or wrong to mention Allardyce got us to 8th? – asking for a friend, as they say.

Don Alexander
227 Posted 06/04/2021 at 02:07:35
Haven't read the whole thread on another now typically flaccid performance, us being rodgered at the end when we sat back for yonks thinking our spurt by Rodriguez would keep everyone satisfied.

I think those in charge should contemplate what the root cause is of our "proud" win, again, of the worst goal difference in the top half of the division, by miles. It's been going on for years. How many times do we win by three clear goals? Hardly ever, never last season and only once this season, against the might of WBA.

I suggest this attitude has become in-bred in the mind-set of the Kenwright coaching staff (and maybe others more recently arrived) at USMFF for years. We are timid, nervous of achievement, comfortable with our fabulous cars and life-styles, paranoid about better players coming in upsetting the mediocrity, and incapable of turning endless verbal pronouncements that "we have to do better/we let us and the supporters down today" into anything better by way of performance.

The deadwood is being slowly dealt with at joist level but unfortunately, like woodworm, it's well into the whole structure of the planks too, courtesy of our host plank.

Ernie Baywood
228 Posted 06/04/2021 at 04:24:03
Tom Bowers 199

It's hard to fathom why Everton's defence cannot hold out against a team like Palace.
One could understand if it were City, United or RS but Palace ??? Come on Carlo !

You seem to be suggesting that the minimum standard is about 30 clean sheets a season. It's not - we should always expect that Palace can score against us.

To my mind it's simple. If you play for one goal wins, then you're giving yourself very fine margins. And we've been playing that game since October.

I was cautioning this when we were eeking out wins and was told on here that I was just miserable.

Something about playing with fire.

Steve Brown
229 Posted 06/04/2021 at 05:04:42
Team selection - wrong, performances - wasteful and inconsistent, pace - non existent, subs - over-cautious, outcome - predictable and infuriating.
Darren Hind
230 Posted 06/04/2021 at 05:15:43
The strikers did miss chances. All strikers do. Perhaps they were caught totally off guard by the fact that some actually came their way...We don't normally get enough people forward for that... But make no mistake Ancelotti was responsible for throwing those points away last night.

We were not brilliant last night, but we were comfortable. Palace had been very accommodating. They were poor in possession, offered nothing up front and they were defending like beginners. This looked and should ave been a formality. So why, oh why, oh fucking why did Carlo want to twist when he was holding all the aces ?.

He didnt just order his men to sit back. His cowardly substitutions were an order to them to get back behind the couch again... In a game that screamed "come and get me" he couldnt escape his built in "what we have we hold" mentality...its the way he is wired up.

All those blaming the strikers (who were embarrassing by the way) should remember one thing. Despite our profligacy we were still winning when Carlo decided to retreat. We were still comfortable. Palace were going out like a whimpering puppy until carlo threw them a big fuck off bone...They were going quietly until he offered them encouragement.

I don't know what makes me more angry. The way Carlo surrendered the points, or the fact that we still have so many making excuses for it... or maybe its the fact that those making these endless excuses think they are doing so in the name of positivity.

Once again another hired hand strolls in, Takes the absolute piss by serving up primitive bone idol anti-football and once again, we have thousands and thousands...And thousands of fans expressing their gratitude for it

Its a reoccurring nightmare

Derek Knox
231 Posted 06/04/2021 at 05:26:41
Stan @ 221, you know what, I couldn't have summed it up any better, spot on there mate with a very honest assessment of our over-rated over-hyped bunch of misfits.

On last night's showing not many deserve to be selected for the bench, next game, never mind the first team. There is something radically wrong there and I just hope it gets identified, sorted, and never returns

Roman Sidey
232 Posted 06/04/2021 at 05:36:19
Darren, the one thing you're forgetting is that Carlo works with these players every day. I would assume he took James and Coleman off because of fitness issues.

Nicholas Ryan, bang on. Agree 100%.

Rob Halligan, you make a good point about their keeper doing his job well denying Calvert-Lewin. The thing is though, at any point from when the striker got the opportunity to ahen Guaita smothered it was there an Everton fan in the world who though he would score? In the very short time it took, my thought was "he's not gonna push it far enough away from the keeper", and that is a sad commentary.

Tony Heron
233 Posted 06/04/2021 at 07:43:54
Michael @ 221. Absolutely spot on. You should send that post to Moshiri. Cant stand to watch Everton any more. Didn't bother with the last few games but decided to tune in last night in the hope they may benefit from the return of James, but no just the same cant be bothered type of performance, save for 1 or 2 exceptions. I would love to know what goes on at FF because I can't see any signs of energy of wanting the ball, I mean the number of times James was in possession and looking around for options with no one, other than Davies, looking to receive the ball was criminal. After 60 years of support I really can't bring myself to watch this team anymore, so for me the season is finished. Stay safe.
Bobby Mallon
234 Posted 06/04/2021 at 07:47:26
Darren Hind your a broken record, it's boring. We have hired Martinez who served up anti ticky tack football and silva the great messiah who served up shite football. We now have a legend a bona fide top manager. Yesterday was the fault of poor finishing not bad defending and you know it, but because you have a dislike for Ancelotti you will always go over the top. Yes I'm an Ancelotti fan but that doesn't stop me saying that yesterday I thought he made subs just for the sake of it. That doesn't mean his subs where to blame our strikers where to blame. End of
Jonathan Tasker
235 Posted 06/04/2021 at 07:54:16
Several good points above.
I have supported the club for 55 years and now I just don't care.
I couldn't care less whether there's a new ground.
Compare and contrast our lot with West Ham last night.
Moyes's team tore into Wolves immediately. They want Top four.
I can only conclude that the ownership of Everton don't want top four.
Carlo's substitutions last night tell me he is complicit with this process of not finishing in the Top four.
If the club doesn't care, why should I?
Gary Willock
236 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:03:16
After a calming down nights kip...

- we don't have any depth in attack.
- we've got to trust Carlo on what he sees with King in training he is clearly not good enough, but we were sensible enough not to make it long term (we ARE learning)
- lose Allan and Doucoure and we are last seasons team.

It's a huge missed opportunity this year, but we've all got to pray Moshiri can dig deep again in the summer.

Outs: Holgate, Siggy, King, Gomes, Bernard.

Ins: TOP right back, proper RW/RM, proper LW/LM, a proper number 6, and another striker.

Got your work cut out Marcel.

Tony Abrahams
237 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:16:35
Reading through this thread I think Rob@152, makes the best point because I thought once we went defensive, then 4-5-1 would have surely offered more protection in seeing out the win.

Two reasons, out-wide you get two banks of four, and centrally you get three midfielders, which means one can sit in front of the back four.

Watching the game you could see Michael Keane, was getting exposed every time Coleman went forward, and that little pocket of space where Michael just doesn't feel/look comfortable, was going to be our undoing in the end?

I thought Mina, had a very good game, but he's never going to step out either, and this was the other problem that would have been negated by having a sitting midfielder?

But we are where we are for a reason, and I'd like to hear what Carlo Ancellotti says about some of the players he's inherited in private, because it looks like he doesn't really trust a few of them, and neither would I, watching the way they sometimes pass the ball whilst not even remotely under pressure.

I'm usually nervous, I hate watching it on the Telly mate, but last night when my partner said there is something up with me, it wasn't nerves, it was because they were getting on my nerves, especially DCL, when he had to score and Michael Keane, creating panic, where there was none, and just not having a basic leader, on or off the pitch?

I will pick myself up though Darren H, I always do, especially because through my anger, it's just patently obvious that we have got to many players in our squad, who are just not good enough for where I want to see Everton go.

Robert Tressell
238 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:19:01
Ian @ 198, you're getting a lot of grief again so I'll just ask a couple of questions.

Who was Ancelotti supposed to buy in January and with what money?

Is Steve Bruce solely responsible for Newcastle's plight or does Mike Ashley have something to do with it?

After all, Newcastle nearly won a title 20-odd years ago so they've every right to expect a top 4 finish.

Frank Crewe
239 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:32:17
@Gary 236.

It's going to be extremely difficult to get rid of Siggy, Bernard and Gomes as Siggy and Bernard still have a year left on their contracts and Gomes has THREE years left on his. considering the wages they are on unless they are willing to take a considerable pay cut shifting them, especially Gomes will be next to impossible.
Personally I don't see this as a midfield problem. We made more than enough chances to have won easily yet our strikers were missing sitters. DLC doesn't score at all unless it's put on a plate for him. A one trick pony. We need a striker like Jota or Ings. Someone who makes space, tries angled shots, knows how to go around a keeper and isn't reliant on crosses to score goals. We need a proper right back and a dominating keeper.
When we have our best side on the park we are good. But we haven't had our best side fit for months. It's just one injury after another. I still think we have a reasonable chance of a top six finish and Europa Cup. The Champions league would have been too much for us anyway.
One more thing. I would be tempted to cash in on Richarlison. He's just too temperamental and it effects his game.

Tony Everan
240 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:41:20
We've needed one player for a long time.

A midfield player with a football brain like James Rodriguez has got. A quick thinker and accurate passer, mobile, able to bring intensity and able to drive with the ball. A midfielder who can put defences on the back foot. Aged 24 ish.

This player would form an effective midfield unit with Allan, Doucoure, Davies and James. Nobody knows for sure what Gbamin will bring, but no eggs should be in that basket.

Delph, Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Bernard, Kenny, Gomes and Tosun Mr Brands needs to try and encourage them to permanently move on. Kean will likely be sold.
Walcott, Besic and King will definitely be out. (King cannot be viewed as good enough, and Ancelotti will be looking for better)

There's eleven players who in my view do not strengthen Everton. Mr Brands with Mr Ancelotti again have to do their best at realignment.

If we moved on those eleven and just got that special midfielder we'd be a better team. Don't spare the budget!

We know we need more than that though , much more potency and threat up front (Don't spare the budget here either!) and quality right back are essential summer signings.

Trevor Peers
241 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:45:15
I'm totally indifferent to whom the manager is, I just want to see a team fired up playing with purpose and drive with the tactics to match and that's just not happening at all.

The responsibility always rests with the manager, of course Carlo will be given more funds in the summer to hopefully mould us into a more cohesive unit. Will it work ? I doubt it personally, we just don't have the resources to buy the players he would really need and the ones we do buy will be European mercenaries, players none of the top clubs want.

In the end we will need a younger manager with a new and fresher approach, I like the way the Brighton manager Potter has his team well organised right through his team of young players. I've no idea if he's good enough to bring success to the blues though, but I think that's what we need, a good organiser of mostly younger, strong athletic players with real pace.

Colin Glassar
242 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:55:04
One or two painful lessons were learnt last night 1) our defenders can defend, in a traditional sense, but they are average at best playing out from the back

2) Michael Keane is painfully slow and cannot play in a back 3.

3) without Allen and Doucoure we don't have a MF hence, we don't have a chance. Gomes, Bernard, Sigurdsson, Iwobi (especially Iwobi) Delph, Davies are either crap or, in Iwobi's case, shite!!

4) we have 3 good forwards in DCL, Richarlison and James but the former two don't appear to be on the same wavelength. There's no apparent understanding between them eg DCL heads the ball anywhere except to Richarlison and Richarlison never looks to play DCL in. We need another forward to put pressure on our front two.

5) the team lacks pace, leadership, creativity and stamina to compete with the big boys

So what's the solution? Right back, right wing, a leader in MF and a new striker. Apart from that maybe we can appoint Darren and his band of brothers as caretaker managers until they find their perfect man.

Gary Willock
243 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:59:15
@Frank 239.

Yeah, appreciate it's never easy to shift on players, but Bernard almost went in last window and perhaps Middle East or USA will offer one big pay day for Siggy too.

Gomes will be harder to shift, particularly in the covid climate with la liga skint, and if we can't find a taker then Davies out on Loan for a year may be a worthwhile alternative. These two together just DONT work.

I agree last nights problem was 100% the strikers, but not sure I see the sense in replacing the leagues 4th highest scorer (DCL) with the leagues 14th (Ings). Bringing Ings in to create competition and compliment him is another kettle of fish entirely. Richies certainly an enigma, but only a very high bid would make sense. We need to ADD upfront, not subtract.

Our problem is scoring goals! Particularly in matches like last night. We are roughly 12th in the league in this area. and for me that's not because of Richie or DCL, but because the midfielders don't contribute enough here. Take away pens and Siggy offers very little, Bernard and Gomes basically none.

Address that, and the strikers can have their off days and either be replaced by others, or a midfielder will step up and rescue us like James nearly did.

We're not far away, but not close enough. Spin the wheel.

Stephen Brown
244 Posted 06/04/2021 at 08:59:50
The best two players in the pitch last night were Eze ( think that's how you spell it?) and Zaha! They looked dangerous every time they had the ball and were comfortable in possession but most importantly did everything at pace.

This team needs more pace and more players totally comfortable in possession.

We should have won comfortably but the equaliser was just so predictable!

George Cumiskey
245 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:06:50
The missed chances in the first half were unbelievable, but we were never in any danger till the manager decided to take off the two best players on the pitch ie Seamus and James. It completely changed the game in Palaces favour if anyone should of been subbed it was DCL and Richie.
Andrew Bentley
246 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:07:37
It's probably been covered in the above comments already but for me Richarlison needs to go. Been a massive fan of his over the years as he works hard for and has been the only player to get us goals. But this season, apart from that patch a few weeks back, he hasn't really got going. Whether DCL being the main man has now knocked his ego, I don't know!

2 things stood out for me last night:
1) he seems unable to leather the football like a top class striker can. He missed about 3 or 4 chances last night trying to side foot the ball into the goal which he tends to do a lot making the keepers chances greater. Their keeper last night did not have a great game nor make any truly great saves, it was purely poor finishing.
2) the petulance over taking that free kick when we had better options than him was pure selfishness. When you are trying to build a team you don't need selfish people like that. It's all about him and not the team. Ruthless managers would get rid, can you imagine Fergie standing for that?!?

Get rid in the summer and use the funds to get some recruits in.

Alan McGuffog
247 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:09:12
According to the BBC Carlo is saying that we will fight to the end ( or words to that effect ).
Such a shame that so far we've shown all the fighting quality of a baked turd
Joe McMahon
248 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:13:19
Supporting this shambolic excuse for a football team gets under you skin, year after year.

Once our top player Richie I think will be off in the summer. He form has badly dropped all season, as I feel he's seem Moise Kean gallop off to pla CL football with Mbappe and Neymar (who he knows well).

If we didn't already know DCL is very good in the air and close range one touch shots. But anything else we want from him (and we do) we ain't gonna get. No taking on the keeper with one on ones and no shooting with venom or precision.

2 goalscorering strikers/midfielders required in the summer.

Like others have said I don't know what they practice at Finch farm, the ball is treated like a bomb about to explode. There is no drive about Evertons play, no matter who is manager. It just seems to be a cozy avin a laugh part time job. But I agree with many others the amount of ex Everton players on the coaching staff seems to add to Bill's misty eyed view of what football is. The chances missed by both the forwards last night was unacceptable for any professional football club.

Tony Abrahams
249 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:14:46
The arguments about the manager will continue, but after reading Barry Williams very sensible post@208, and John Rafferty who is another very sensible poster, who watches Everton home and away, and always gives a balanced view, without any bias or hysteria, then that's the line I'm taking, because to expect to much from our current squad, will only leave you disappointed imo!
Alex Gray
250 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:15:20
Ive taken interest in West Ham lately to see how Moyes is doing and the utterly depressing thing last night is compared to the start of the season how much more threatening West hams attacking play is compared to ours.

Richarlison needs to be on the wing as id argue with him up top we havent got a quality winger in the club. James floats, iwobi inconsistent, gordon not ready, bernard not good enough and Coleman and digne make decent wing backs but with nobody in front of them struggle.

Christ last night I saw Jesse lingard and Antonio running with the ball time and time again and nobody in our squad can do that. Another poster pointed out eze and zaha and hes spot on. Running at the defence with pace causes problems. City do it, utd, chelsea, liverpool all do it too.

This summer we MUST address our actual weaknesses. Another Doucoure type is a must as its no surprise we've been awful without him. Two fast wingers and a right back to compete with seamus is a must also.

The real sickener is that with all the teams around us dropping points the second we scored and sat back I saw the palace goal coming.

Robert Tressell
251 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:20:54
I'd be surprised if we move Gomes, Delph and Iwobi out over summer. Who would buy?

As for Sigurdsson, if he goes then so do a good chunk of our goals and assists. Again, I'll be surprised if he goes and he may even be given a contract extension.

If we get in, say, Sarr and Bailey then you can see what a difference that would make in a game like last night.

But we'll still be light on quality and numbers in reserve next season.

Frank Crewe
252 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:23:29
@Trevor241

Weren't Martinez, Koeman and Silva younger managers with a fresher approach?
We cannot keep trying to sign up the latest flavour of the month manager just because he's having a decent time with a small club. I don't care what Potter is doing at Brighton. Carlo has a proven record of success second to none. He is Everton's manager and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Tony Abrahams
253 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:32:43
I'm not a goalkeeper Rob H, and he his obviously there to make it difficult and stop the other team scoring, but I thought DCL, should have given the goalkeeper no chance with his two chances last night. The reason for this is that he could have hit both shots earlier imo, especially the first one when the goalkeeper was rushing out.

Dominic reacted poorly for the first, took to much time concentrating on the ball, and not once looking to see where the keeper was, and i'd bet that if that was in training, he'd have dinked it early or feinted and went round the keeper, when he realised much too late, how fast the keeper had come out?

For the second one, I didn't understand why he hit what I'd describe as an ice-hockey shot. Why try and lift it whilst the keeper was coming forward “getting set” why did'nt he just toe-poke it quickly which would have given the keeper no time to react?

Just my opinions Rob, I know you're in the goalkeepers union mate, I like DCL, I've been patient for a reason, but there comes a time when a player has to grab the bull by the horns and go and win the game for his team, and surely this is what Lewin needs to start doing now, if he his to reach the next stage?

Christopher Timmins
254 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:38:49
Another very disappointing outcome last night. We created more chances than of late but in general play there was not much between the sides. As has been the case for most of the season we lost the midfield battle but against a very weak back four we were still able to create a miss numerous chances.

Our substitutions did not work out. Coleman and James were our best players on the night, however, when Coleman was replaced by Godfrey I could understand the logic of the switch but was more than surprised when Holgate was not moved to right back and Godfrey to the left of the middle three.

Holgate does not offer much going forward but he is a better right back then Godfrey. Godfrey has been exceptional this season and I hope the last 15 minutes of last night's game did not damage his confidence.

Charlie like DCL was wasteful but what really disturbed me about the guy was the incident just before half time when he won a free just outside the box on the left side. He grabbed the ball just like a 5 year old kid would in the school playground and did not let go of if until he took the resultant free.

From three downwards the standard in the division is pretty moderate and that is the only reason we are sill in the mix with 9 games to go. We are averaging just over 61 points for a 38 game season at present but I reckon we will be luck to break the 60 point barrier.

When it comes to signings this summer can we please purchase players who have rock solid fitness records.

Brian Murray
255 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:48:46
Robert, post 251 if we somehow end the window and we still have the likes of Delphi Gomes siggy iwobi then it's rinse and repeat another top 8 finish at best. Even if they are squad players they are still draining out our club and you can be sure our best 11 will be unfit sooner or later as we just seen this season so they are back in providing one assist and one shot every blue moon. Even seamus a great servant should be no where near Everton in his mid 30s albeit he's still a better outlet than most in front of him. No way a top four club would rely on him at all. We won't or can't be ruthless with contracts look at the yank goalie went in three years too long same with jags and baines. We was lucky baines didn't want to bleed us anymore but he still gets a wage. Probably the emotional elephant in the room no doubt behind these calls.
Tony Abrahams
256 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:55:43
Good point Brian, we have got to many players who are draining the finances out of our club. Bernard hasn't been seen lately, and surely Delph, can't still have the same hamstring injury he suffered at the start of December?

Hopefully the club is getting tough, and also getting ready to take some big hits, otherwise as you say it's rinse and repeat, because as some people on this thread have already alluded, football is very competitive, and nobody is just going to let you go and win.

You need real dynamism and quality to move forward in this game!

Brian Murray
257 Posted 06/04/2021 at 09:57:24
Andrew. post 246., Its true about Ricky but we have to do a very un Everton thing this time and if we get a good fee ( same with kean ) we need to have the players lined up and almost on the dotted line unlike the Lukaku fiasco which we still haven't addressed. Sounds all very basic and obvious but still totally lost on our strategy and planning. Assuming we have that.
Lennart Hylen
258 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:16:23
A lot of you complain about strikers missing chances but that is only part of the problem. The real problem is that a lot of players in this squad lack the will to win. This team is lacking a backbone. Central defense with Keane and Mina sometimes looks very comfortable on the ball. In midfield we lack a player who can inspire other players around him. We sadly lack a player like Peter Reid or Steven Gerrard who can run and run and really has the will to win and do not look down-hearted when things do not run smoothly. In attack we need at least one winger. DCL is not the kind of player who creates chances on his own. He needs service. We have a tendency to play backwards far to often. This is part of our problem. It seems like no one is the captain of the ship. It is safer to play backwards from midfield instead of playing the ball that will open up the opponent's defense. I think Palace were far more direct in their play and with more clinical finishing they would have won.

It seems like there is a mental barrier affecting a lot of our players. It boils down to the lack of leadership on the pitch. Please get us a “captain of the ship” on the field who is inspiring and can lift the team.

Dave Abrahams
259 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:25:35
Ancelotti has been a great manager in the past, his record proves that, he might and hopefully will prove that he is still a great manager at Everton.

He inherited a very weak squad when he came here, nobody is arguing about that, but no manager has been backed and supported by so many fans like Carlo has this season, we have had a lot of injuries that have affected this club more than most because of the under strength of the squad, most especially in midfield, but Carlo has tinkered too much, changed a winning team too often, we still do not have statements or style about our game, one poster gets accused of being like a broken record, we'll turn the record over and see Carlo play the same system with the same players against mediocre teams at Goodison Park, that fail time after time, then trying to rectify matches with poor, very poor substitutions that baffle not only us supporters but his players trying to implicate that style, even when we winning like last night, those subs. last night were the start of Crystal Palace's comeback, IMO, just completely gave them the opportunity to attack and get the equaliser, in fact they looked more likely to get the winner.

I understand those getting behind Carlo and I realise the enormity of the job he has to get us back to the top, but he doesn't help himself sometimes and he isn't infallible, he's human so he can and does make mistakes, some of them again and again, even they have proved they don't work, again and again and again.

Trevor Peers
260 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:25:37
Frank@ 252
None of Koeman Silva or Martinez could organise a piss up in a brewery. The last organisers we had were Moyes and Kendall before him. Ok Moyes never won a thing but at least you could see some method in his madness, Kendall had the Midas touch we so badly miss.
Andrew Ellams
261 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:30:10
To me Amcelotti doesn't seem to realise that the pace of football in the PL has increased a hell of a lot since his time at Chelsea. That shows when you look at Rodrigues and Allan, both his players that he brought to the club and both seem to be struggling with the pace of the game.
Dan Nulty
262 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:30:37
I'm honestly bemused by some of the comments criticising Carlo and the defence for not keeping a clean sheet.

Richarlison should have had at least 3 goals yesterday and DCL should have had 2. If DCL had lobbed the keeper on the first and put it to the keeper's right on his second they'd have been simple goals. If we could finish we'd be celebrating a 5 or 6 goal victory. Not putting away chances is not the manager's fault.

At the very least we are creating chances which we weren't doing much of in previous seasons.

If you want to look for problems then one of the major ones defensively was James not chasing back and simply jogging and letting Palace players run past him. However, his left foot and right even for the finish are something no one else in our midfield has the quality of. A luxury player and one we need. He wasn't on the field when they eventually equalised though.

For me we played well, finishing aside, were by far the better side.

Richarlison is really getting on my nerves this season. He'd be a 50m player if he could finish. I doubt we will recoup that money unless he starts scoring regularly.

Brian Harrison
263 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:32:53
Yet another home game against a lower league side and as per usual Everton fail to win. I think someone produced at stat saying based on our home form alone we would be 14th in the league and 4th on away form. Now usually we are the complete opposite relying mainly on or home form. You do really have to ask the question as to how we perform well away and so poorly at home, yes no crowds could be a major part there has to be more to it than that surely. I am a fan of Carlo but his Italian trait of trying to protect a lead rather than add to it is becoming increasingly frustrating.

I think the commentator said that DCL has only scored 3 times in 15 games including last night, and I don't think Richarlisons record is much better either. So when as displayed last night when neither could hit a barn door with a banjo then how come at no point was it ever considered to give Josh King a run up front. I know he was predominantly signed as a back up in case mainly DCL got injured but obviously Carlo doesnt rate him, so you have to question why was he bought.

The one positive last night was having James back, I know some at the beginning questioned his signing, but he has demonstrated yet again he is a class above anything at the club. Hardly ever loses possession and his range of passing is a joy to behold, and his finishing isn't bad either. The problem is can we get him on the pitch often enough and can we get consecutive games out of him. I thought Tom Davies was our best midfielder but I am not convinced that Digne adds anything to our game playing further forward. Last night James found Digne in acres of room time and time again but he failed to deliver any quality.

I think that result makes it virtually impossible to get 4th and to be honest I hate the Europa league but we look like we will struggle to make it anyway. Which will make it harder to attract the sort of quality we need. Just a footnote looks like Moyes is doing what he excels at give him a group of mainly average ability Rice excluded and he gets them to perform way above were most would expect them to finish.

Derek Taylor
264 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:34:36
After forecasting a 'sacred seventh 'finish all season, I am of a mind to cover my position with a 'naughty ninth' investment. And naughty it will be of Carlo & Co with all the support forthcoming from Moshiri.

'Must do better' even with some of the deadbeats we are blessed with !

John Boswell
265 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:37:48
Such a disappointing outcome last night but only confirming what we already know. The positive to come out of last night was JP Gbamin's performance. After his injuries I had no great expectations but the man put himself about and impressed me. There is hope!
In the summer I would love to add Danny Ings to our squad if possible. I liked him at Burnley and England U21. His move to Liverpool didn't work out, due to injury, he would add to our options. Jessie Lindguard has been revitalised at West Ham, he would add to our midfield options and both are Premier league ready.
Just a few first thoughts, COYB.
David Connor
266 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:38:18
Time and again, results go our way. Time and again, we fail to capitalise on it. Yes, we have injuries to key players and that emphasizes how poor our first-team squad is. It is weak and lacks players with heart.

We need to get shut of at least 6 players in the summer and replace them with quality, preferably under 30 and definitely not injury-prone. We need 2 dynamic midfielders that can chip in with a few goals; a replacement for Seamus Coleman; a good wide man; and 2 more strikers as Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison are too inconsistent. All strikers have barren spells but these two are out and out wasteful.

A massive season coming up for Carlo. Spew it and he will be gone. Financial Fair Play doesn't apply next season, so Mr Moshiri has to break the bank to the tune of around 𧷤 million. Offload the deadwood at a huge loss – if anyone will have them, that is. Should recoup some cash with the sale of Kean. Maybe get rid of Richarlison. He ain't that good in my opinion.

Same thing, year-in & year-out. We are all sick of it and it has to change. Time to act, Mr Moshiri.

Stan Schofield
267 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:39:49
If we hadn't created so many chances, people would be saying we lacked creativity. Well, we showed creativity in abundance, but couldn't put the chances in the net, apart from the one goal.

Given that both Allen and Doucoure were absent, I thought we played OK, certainly in terms of creating chances and the opposition not really bothering us. We could easily have scored 6, and if we had done then Ancelotti would be hailed as the Professor. But we didn't.

Given 1-0, it wasn't unreasonable to try to defend the lead, and if we'd kept attacking and left ourselves exposed, then Ancelotti would be criticised for poor game management and a too-cavalier approach.

I don't see a lack of winning mentality. I see small margins on which the result can hinge. We know with the full strength first 11 we can beat most teams, perhaps beat anybody. But we haven't had that full strength on too many occasions, we lack strength in depth, and have suffered for it. None of that suffering is unexpected. Disappointing, yes, but not unexpected.

We need additional quality to provide strength in depth, that much is obvious. We can still reach top-4, but the gods would have to favour us. Perhaps we lack the strength in depth to properly compete in Europe. That will be remedied, but not overnight. More patience is needed, that is a simple fact. Keep calm and carry on.

Derek Cowell
268 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:43:01
Gutting result yet again with another late goal we invited.

For me, when we have to play most of the pre Ancelotti players, there are only 2 worse teams in this league, Sheffield United and West Brom. Newcastle? They beat us twice!

We fans are expecting too much and there is an element of delusion amongst us in the way we expect to beat "the likes of Palace' etc. This is a hard league with good professional fit teams (except ours and the current bottom two). To win you have to compete in every game for 95 odd minutes and we just do not do that and haven't for years, no matter who the manager is. Moyes was the last full time manager who the players actually 'competed' for with any regularity.

We are not a top 4 club or team at present and have not been for decades. We are a poor team playing poor football who will finish somewhere between 7th and 12th with a negative goal difference.

I hate us being what I am describing but I think I am being realistic here and I see no signs of improvement because I have seen and heard all the optimism so many times before. We never learn.

I just want to see exciting attacking football like Leeds fans watch when we dominate some games and win 3-0 without all the nervous heart stopping finishes we have to every game. I would kill for a modern day Thomas/Latchford combo and some of those 4-3 type exciting games.

Football is meant to be entertaining and we haven't been entertained for years and years!

Some happy clappers will slag me off for being negative, which I know is a crime here, but I am just being realistic at our current position. At the same time I HOPE it changes, as I have for so long now. Fortunately I have supported us since 1966 so I know what winning looks like.

Ajay Gopal
269 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:50:13
Stan (221) and a few others, I don't understand the criticism of Holgate. I was surprised to see him play on the left side of a Back 3, but some of passing was brilliant yesterday - the chance that he put on a platter for DCL (if that had been De Bruyne, the pundits would have been creaming themselves), and the sublime cross field pass to Coleman that resulted in a great scoring opportunity for Richarlison. And Holgate and Digne I thought, shut down their right side very effectively. I was surprised that Carlo did not instruct Holgate and Godfrey to switch flanks, when Godfrey came 0n - I thought that was a fatal mistake, one that he has made earlier in the season (don't remember against which team, but it was one of the lower ones). Teams have exploited our right side time and time again over the course of the season, and Carlo has failed to address that issue.

For me, the reason we did not get all 3 points is quite simply our strikers having a very bad day. I agree with the poster who said that Guaita did not make any out of the world saves, our strikers just gave him enough opportunity that he knew if he kept his composure they would not score.

Paul A Smith
270 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:50:29
3 people to blame, Ancelotti for his Moyes style subs when it seemed un-neccessary, Richarlison for thinking hes better than he is and Calvert Lewin for still having worse feet than Niasse.

Graham Sharp my arse. Not one shred of the aggression sharp had.

Joe McMahon
271 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:52:48
Brian @263. One wonders would any of the chances not taken by DCL last night been taken by King? We will never know as we don't see him play.

He would have been better off going to Fulham to at least get game time.

Danny O’Neill
272 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:56:23
Annoyingly frustrating. I won't re-analyse as many have already said it all.

Comfortable without doing a great deal in my opinion and our keeper almost unemployed for large parts.

Another wasted opportunity to add to the list. Sadly even my optimism is waning now and I fear we will be saying that about the season come May; wasted opportunity underpinned by wasted opportunities.

Mark Dunford
273 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:58:10
A terribly disappointing result, yet still not the worst. Everton have thrown away far too many points at home to expect European football and they certainly won't get it if yesterday's result is repeated. The squad has improved this season and has a better balance with excellent new signings and some players regaining confidence and the form that can go with it. We've really been very unlucky with injuries and this has exposed the lack of depth, especially upfront where DCL and Richarlison have done far too much of everything All in all, we've progressed this year, had some excellent results and been let down by factors the manager is working hard to rectify. I think we seem to take too much for granted at home in fixtures we believe we should win by right. It isn't over yet despite the disappointment.
Tony Abrahams
274 Posted 06/04/2021 at 10:59:00
Do you think Sharp, was naturally aggressive Paul A? Because I remember Alex Ferguson bemoaning Sharp's lack of aggression when managing Scotland in the 1986 World Cup.

Robert Tressell
275 Posted 06/04/2021 at 11:03:40
Brian @255, I agree. There's a very real danger that we remain in that 6th to 8th bracket next season and beyond. Because good though the fully fit first 11 is, the cavalry is essentially the same group that was heading for relegation under Silva before Dunc and Carlo steered us to 12th.

We won't sign Danny Ings. That's as improbable as us doing a Leipzig and hoovering up a higher volume of younger players to improve the squad.

We'll most likely buy 3 players for the first team, a reserve goalie (Olsen or someone like him) and a couple of prospects for the u23s / u18s.

We will therefore still be reliant on the likes of Gomes and Iwobi to make up the numbers.

Justin Doone
276 Posted 06/04/2021 at 11:16:46
Palace went for it, they had nothing to lose when 1-0 down.

We are not good enough to hold out especially when both slow centre backs inexplicably start to push up and out wide.

Guess what's going to happen next..

We can only play either Keane or Mina and we must stay deep and defend. We failed to shut up shop, despite making defensive subs.

We don't have a midfield general. Someone to control and dictate play. James has the vision and creative elements but lacks pace and the defensive skills.

We know and the opposition know we play backwards to often.

Before judging King let him play a few games. Rest or rotate with Ric or Dom. Kings runs would help James play more forward balls.

Tony Everan
277 Posted 06/04/2021 at 11:21:32
Robert, that's realistic that we will keep two or three for the squad. It will come down to players who we can actually get an offer for. Some of them like Delph and Bernard are now just contractually drifting at the club, on huge money, like a modern day Besic and Bolaisie.

I agree that out of Delph, Besic, Bolaise, Iwobi, Sigurdsson, Gomes, Kenny, Walcott, Tosun, Bernard, Kean and King . It's likely combination of Iwobi , Siggurdson or Gomes will still be here for the squad unless we get good offers. If we did they'd be gone too.

Kean is the only one who we will get a good fee for but if we can get 50m+ for the sales it will help the desperately needed strengthening of the first team.

Paul A Smith
278 Posted 06/04/2021 at 11:37:58
Tony A I do mate, I believe he had a nasty streak and compared to Calvert Lewin hes far more aggressive.

Alex Ferguson may have had his reasons for saying so but I only ever seen a player that wanted to win and showing he could be aggressive with his finishing.

Mwila Mwenya
279 Posted 06/04/2021 at 11:45:24
The missed chances were extremely frustrating but not surprising. Don't think DCL has really ever done well in those situations. Maybe its cause I am Zambian but why ain't we looking at Patson Daka from RB Salzburg?

He is on fire and yes in a lesser league but at EUR 20m surely we can take a chance on a 22 year old!

Mike Doyle
280 Posted 06/04/2021 at 11:48:35
Robert # 275 ] I fear you are correct.
While I understood the logic of subbing James and Seamus, I suspect the choice of replacements speaks volumes about the options available on the bench. Looks like Josh King hasn't impressed / won't be retained. The only other option was Nathan Broadhead - who presumably isn't considered up to standard either. Notwithstanding the long list of departures I've no doubt that Siggy, Gomes & Iwobi will still be here. Who would be interested in them?
Tony Abrahams
281 Posted 06/04/2021 at 11:51:47
I thought Andy Grey, definitely rubbed off on Sharp, Paul A, because before he came, I honestly think DCL now, is more aggressive than Sharp was in his early years mate.

I was going to write what you said though Paul, because I think aggression comes in many different ways, and whereas you quite rightly say Sharp was always aggressive with his finishing, you never quite get the feeling that Dominic really means it, because he rarely tries to take the lace out the ball, so I agree he's definitely not aggressive enough in front of goal.

Matthew Williams
282 Posted 06/04/2021 at 12:00:59
If we are a club with ambition then one phone call from Moshiri to Carlo would take place... European footy next season or I'll replace you!.

We need to become more ruthless on and off the pitch, the current situation is simply unacceptable.

Paul A Smith
283 Posted 06/04/2021 at 12:11:40
Tony there was debate a few weeks back over Calvert Lewin to Sharp comparisons and I do feel for Calvert Lewin in this respect.

He shouldn't be compared to Sharp for a start but comparing him to anyone is rather harsh and too much pressure.

Their capabilities were far different and Sharp had more class. The volley v Liverpool was mentioned but Sharp was pulling them shots off and scoring even before that.

It doesn't need to be a debate but unconditional affection for Lewin brings it out and crusaders forget there wasn't a goal Calvert Lewin has scored that Sharp couldn't.

That is the main difference and the other way around doesn't work so far. At 24 Calvert Lewin still can't strike a ball.

As much as that hurts some, (god knows why) its glaringly obvious and he keeps showing it.

Richarlison has the aggression but hes too sulky, that his only consistency.

Robert Tressell
284 Posted 06/04/2021 at 12:24:05
Mwila @279, as it happens we were tenously linked with Daka yesterday. Along with about two dozen other clubs around Europe. He looks excellent. Here's hoping!
Mark Stanley
285 Posted 06/04/2021 at 12:25:43
Nearly 24hrs later and my opinion hasn't changed. Our play is slow, ponderous, generally negative (sideways & backwards) and of overall poor quality, which we witnessed once again with the abysmal finishing when the chances did present themselves. Let's face it we would be whipping boys in the CL and don't have the quality throughout the squad to play in the EL so finishing outside of the European places would be a blessing until we can bring in some more midfield class to complement James, especially when Allan and Doucoure are missing.

DCL might have sorted out his one touch goals in the 6 yard box, but he's like a rabbit in the headlights when it's a one on one with the keeper. And as much as people talk up Richie being world class, and he is very good, but he has as many games when he fluffs his lines, like yesterday.

We should have had this game dead and buried before half time and certainly by the time they'd poked one into the net. But yet again we blow it at home. W5 D3 L7 at home is abysmal and not worthy of a top 5 position. On their own these stats put us in a relegation fight and it's only a decent away record this season that keeps us in the top half.

Thomas Richards
286 Posted 06/04/2021 at 12:27:26
Half of the team that started last night will never play in the Champions League.
Not good enough.
Ian Burns
287 Posted 06/04/2021 at 12:30:18
Like everybody else, I was extremely disappointed with the result last night and although I am a big Carlo fan, I was just as disappointed at his 75th minute substitutions because it wasn't the first time he had cocked up in this regard.

However, reading through the comments, Christopher Timmins at 254 makes the comment: " in general play there was not much between the sides."

In general play there wasn't much between the sides and this comment was exactly my own thoughts watching last night's game. Given our ambition; given the manager we have in situ and given the players we can put out on the pitch, despite our injuries, there SHOULD be a difference between the sides - and that is a sad statement for a team who before last night was supposedly aiming for the top 4!

Onwards and upwards? Maybe not yet.

Winston Williamson
288 Posted 06/04/2021 at 12:53:44
Ancelotti brings on a central defender and a defensive midfielder, taking off an actual right back and an attacking midfielder.

Hodgson brings on attacking players.

Ancelotti cost us the three points, just as culpably as DCL and Richarlison did with poor finishing.

This home form is extremely frustrating! Players need to get a grip or all the big bollocks talk they waffle means less than the nothing it means before they waffle it!

Dave Abrahams
289 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:02:37
Paul (283), yes those who have compared DCL with Sharp do him more harm than good, I've done it myself in the past but compared them because of the amount of work they did for the team, the team always come first for both of them, although the work rate was missing from Dominic's game last night, he wasn't as aggressive as he has been this season.

Comparing the two of them with aggression I think Dominic is more naturally aggressive than Graeme Sharp, Graeme was featured in an Everton programme, when he was playing, and compared himself with Steve McMahon, he said “ I'm not naturally aggressive like Stevie, aggression is second nature to him, I have to work hard at building my aggression up” or words to that effect and I think when Andy Gray came to the club Graeme learned quite a bit off Andy including how to put himself about a bit more.

I think it's been a long season for Dominic working alone up front week after week and maybe that is beginning to show now, although there was no excuse for the chances he missed last night.

Colin Malone
290 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:04:47
Ok. Richarlson never had his shooting boots on, but you have to give the lad credit on his work rate, its second too non, helping out the midfield when we have not got the ball. The lad plays with passion. PASSION. He'll do for me.
Mike Connolly
291 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:05:08
We seem to be the un- fittest team in the league. we play that slow, if we entered the Walk football league wed get done for time wasting. God knows what we are doing at Finch Farm, not a lot by the look of things.
Chris Leyland
292 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:05:10
What has happened to us from the start of the season when we were scoring for fun?

Both the forwards were embarrassing with their misses last night and aren't top quality finishers. I love DCL but his two one on ones and his lack of compusure in those situations are worrying. Richie is so frustrating too. He sulks and mopes around like a toddler all game and then fluffs all the opportunities that come his way.

Why do we retreat into the KITAP mentality when we actually can't keep it right when we have slow and ponderous midfielders and defenders who wouldn't know what a clean sheet was even if they worked in an bedding factory?

It is so frustrating and soul destroying supporting Everton. Nothing ever hated and nothing ever will.

Steve Carse
293 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:06:50
John (265), now I know that Evertonians these days set a low bar of what they want from their players, but Gbamin "impressed" you???
Brent Stephens
294 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:10:00
Mwila Mwenya #279. Hi, I don't think I've seen you post before. If you haven't posted before - good to see you. If you have posted before - still good to see you! I think Robert #284 has a good eye for these things so good to see you both on the same page (in both senses!).
Steve Carse
295 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:29:16
Going in to 2021 we were second in the league, averaging almost 2 points per game. We'd not been in such a strong position for 35 years. Now, we're forever hearing of how ambitious our club is, likewise our manager and support team. How on earth then, with our team still lacking, particularly in the midfield area, did we end the winter transfer window with only player (King) added to the books? We're repeatedly told that the winter window is a hard one to operate in but the lack of serious action then not only meant we had thrown away an excellent chance to win CL qualification but it now seems likely to have cost us any European action next season. And with the quality of the two best sides in the country likely to persist when are we likely to attain such giddy heights in the foreseeable future?
Eddie Dunn
296 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:36:43
I am glad that Gbamin is fit but it was stupid to put him on in that game. if we had been 3 or 4 up then fair enough. He actually gave the ball away and set them up for a counter attack.
Carlo has taken off Coleman previously when he was playing well, and taking off James when he was running the show was dumb.
Perhaps Carlo has an Italian app on his phone that recommends subbing anyone who can pass the ball.
Brian Murray
297 Posted 06/04/2021 at 13:46:13
It's all been said so l il add is really is a bonus and a positive that gbamin is back and he is the box to box we we need.
Barry Williams
298 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:00:53
Colin Malone - 290

For me you state all the bear minimum requirements. Any players not giving their all, which at the moment is once a week, should be ashamed. However, in the world of the idolised, skin products, nice hair cuts, fashion shots, image rights, silly dance celebrations, PR controlled interviews, PR controlled social media messages, agents, mansions, supermodel wives, endorsements - maybe football isn't as important to the players as it once was!

I follow Everton, but my interest in football has waned so much that I watch no other games. We laud effort - as said, the minimum requirement even in a school team or a Sunday league team.

This isn't a criticism of your post at all Colin, just my observations on the game in general.

Ian Edwards
299 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:01:47
Kieran Kinsella 219.

I take your point. Although for the record I did not post anything about Lineker or Stuart on the live forum.... just in case anyone misunderstands your post. I rate both players highly. Especially Lineker.

Kieran Kinsella
300 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:06:12
Ian

I didn't say you posted that, I said people on the forum did, the same forum you were using to back your views on the game. I'm calling into question that value of opinions in the forum

Steve Hogan
301 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:06:37
Lot's of great viewpoints on here, but even experienced CL manager's like Carlo can get it horribly wrong.

Neither Coleman or Rodriguez looked to be struggling, our two best player's at the time.
It's obvious Gomes and Sigurdsson don't have the 'legs' anymore and struggle to cope with the physicality of the Premier league, if you can't have any control in midfield, you will always struggle.

Someone in a previous post said Gbamin was a real 'box to box' type player. Jesus, I'm struggling to understand how he came to that conclusion based on the number of times the guy has actually played for us.

It was unfair of Carlo to bring him on as sub in that situation.

Kieran Kinsella
302 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:09:21
Just read that Arsenal want 100 million for Saka and that's not them trying to keep him that's them actually wanting to sell him. Where's Paul Merson?
Ian Edwards
303 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:10:23
Colin Glassar 202. For the record I'm not a fan of Moyes. I thought he was dreadful for us. I was merely trying to demonstrate how bad Ancelotti is given Moyes is doing far better with West Ham and inferior players.

I did an article on here many years ago about my dislike of Moyes. It was entitled something like " Worse than Bingham, worse than Smith, worse than Walker". Might even still be available. Guess what??? I got abuse for it 😂

Don Alexander
304 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:22:36
Patson Daka on his Youtube hi-lites really looks the business in terms of attitude, intent and athleticism (and yes I know Youtube can make a player deceptively attractive) but the type of goals the lad scores is exciting. As Mwila says at #279, he 's playing in a lesser league but at his age (22) he might just develop into a forward of real distinction over here. He's scored 50 in 73 games for Salzburg (!) and has a good scoring rate internationally too.

Wonder what Brands thinks of him?

Cheers Mwila!

Dave Williams
305 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:29:31
We could easily have scored six and everyone would be praising a good performance. Sometimes it just happens that a team can't score from a load of good chances. Very frustrating but that's football.
James and Holgate were excellent- less said about the front two the better!
Robert Tressell
306 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:30:57
Steve C @295, the club is not investing with a view to securing a top 4 position. We are investing with a view to hanging around the top 6 ish while the stadium is being built.

With luck we might sneak top 4 next season but it will rely on everyone staying fit.

Sadly, we could have spent £100m in Jan and still fall short. It's the same reason Spurs, Villa, West Ham etc didnt also recruit the extra few who might make a difference.

Kieran Kinsella
307 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:48:06
Ian Edwards

You never do things by half “worse than Walker”? Isn't that an oxymoron?

Jerome Shields
308 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:48:07
Chris#292

Other teams copped on how to play Everton. Both Calvert Lewin and Richarlison are easy marked and channeled into positions they can't score from. Defender told to push up on them and don't worry of space behind, they will rarely run into it. Pressurise the Everton right back and run into the near post space that Keane vaccates. Most goals against Everton this season have been via this route.

Paul A Smith
309 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:48:44
Dave 289. Theres more to aggression than being a dog like McMahon.

Sharp was a team mate of his so it was an easy statement and maybe some modesty from Sharp.

Did you ever doubt his aggression. His volley v Spurs at Goodison when he was 20 was all you needed to see if there were doubts about his aggression.

Ask Richarlison about Calvert Lewin and he'll give him race reviews, all team mates do but at some point they'll be slagging each others commitment or attitude on the pitch.

I want Calvert Lewin to add to his traits and being aggressive or determined will help him.

Does anyone think Drogba was born a naturally aggressive footballer? He sure was when he was 24 and needed more to succeed in the premiership.

Colin Glassar
310 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:53:28
Good for you Ian. I actually thought Moyes did a good job stabilising the club but his last few years showed he was more interested in lining his own pockets than in pushing Old Mother Hubbard to check his cupboard for the arteta money or any other funds he could find.

His slithering off to Man U then trying to nick our best players on the cheap was the final straw for me. I'm glad we can at least agree on that.

ICIT!!

Mick Conalty
311 Posted 06/04/2021 at 14:56:05
In my next life I wanted to be
Paul Raymond, now I think I
would like to come back as Carlo Ancelloti. He has a contract for £10M a year delivers us crap football along side crap results, yet is spoken of in glowing terms by pundits and fans (on this site) as a World Class Manager.
It must be nice to have the sun continually shining out of your arse.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

312 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:06:56
For all those bemoaning the substitutions, I'm curious to know what alternatives they believe would have made a difference.

The bench was made up of two young keepers Joao Virginia and Tyrer who were never going to get on unless there was an injury or sending off of Olsen.

The same could be said of the other 3 young subs - Nkounkou, Broadhead and John. Only in extraordinary, exceptional circumstances, would you expect any of those to enter the fray.

That left us with four realistic senior subs. One of those was used early on 30 minutes and was the obvious one - Siggy on for the injured Gomes.

Coleman was subbed out like-for-like with Godfrey (for many, Everton's player of the season) on 76 minutes. James on 79 minutes for Gbamin. Both Coleman and James have been long-term injured and when previously returning to the team have suffered another injury which meant we lost them for 3-4-5 games.

Coleman played 3 times for Ireland during the International break. Perfectly understandable to protect him from a potential stress injury. A case has been made that Godfrey and Holgate should have switched flanks, but that of course would have meant a double positional change on the single substitution and so the potential for even more disruption.

James was the conductor of all that was good about Everton last night. Like all great players, time is suspended with the ball at his feet. The grains of sand falling through the hour glass seem to be suspended. There is never a like-for-like substitute for James. But again, given his long lay off, why risk potentially losing him for another 4-5 games to keep him on for the closing 10 minutes?

The only real alternative to Gbamin for James was King and re-jigging Siggy's position and fitting King in with Richy and DCL. That, or running the risk of keeping the fatigued James on and withdrawing either Richy or DCL for King instead.

Neither of our front two covered themselves in glory last night, but they did get in position on numerous occasions to score. And that is what Carlo probably punted on. That either would get another chance to score (Richy did, but hit his shot into the ground to make the keeper's save easier) rather than King who frankly has shown nothing in his appearances with us.

As for some comments in this thread - 'Calvert-Lewin isn't a footballer' and 'Calvert Lewin has worse feet than Niasse. Graham Sharp my arse. Not one shred of the aggression Sharp had.'

Mindboggling.

Dom was a tad dull last night. To consider him based on last night as not even a footballer, worse than Niasse, or lacking Sharp's aggression suggests to me what poor recall of all 3 players and poor judges of footballers those commentators are.

Joe McMahon
313 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:22:06
Why we debating DCL with Sharp. That was 35 years ago. The PL is a lot faster, what I'd like DCL to be more like is Vardy or Ings, but nothing I've seen is gonna be anything like those two. (I'm not even gonna mention Harry Kane). He's top table player that Spurs are gonna struggle to keep hold of)
Mwila Mwenya
314 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:22:18
Robert Tressel # 284 don't know how I missed that report linking him to us. Brent # 294 I read the posts and comments religiously but don't post much. But feel so strongly about Patson Daka that if anyone has the ear of even the tea lady at Goodison please speak to them about this lad. He has all the attributes to be a premier league star including the attitude.

Another guy to look at is Enock Mwepu….also at RB Salzburg and also Zambian. His passing range is magnificent.

Also as one of a handful of Zambians who support Everton...nothing would make me happier than to see a Zambian score a screamer for Everton. If its against Everton that would break my heart

Alan J Thompson
315 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:23:58
The alternatives perhaps should have been to make no changes at all. Coleman didn't look as though he had run out of steam although James even looked awkward trying to take a knee before kick off and did receive some heavy knocks, a couple of which the referee did nothing about, and I suppose having to sub Gomes so early didn't help.
I don't think anybody would say Mr Ancelotti did this with the intention of spoiling the team but for whatever reason, it didn't work. I do wonder though with the youngsters on the bench if he has considered Besic who does have experience at international level but I wouldn't know at what fitness level he is but you might think it would be enough for the last 10 minutes or so.
Brent Stephens
316 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:33:58
Mwila #314 - interesting stuff. You really should post more often. Do you have a local Zambian club you follow?
Gary Mortimer
317 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:41:55
I haven't posted for a while, but I'll add my 10p's worth.
If Richie or DCL had scored even half their (very good) chances we would have thrashed palace yesterday by 3-4 clear goals and everyone would have been happy with the performance, even though it was very ragged at times. I am not sure I agree with Jerome#308 when he says “DCL and Richie were easy marked and channelled into positions they can't score from” – not yesterday they weren't.
In my opinion Seamus and James were both struggling fitness wise near the end. Our right side was wide open a few times against Palace's 2 best players. A change had to be made, but Carlo should have shifted Mason over to cover for Seamus, not Ben.
This was not the same type of performance as those that led to home defeats against Fulham, Leeds or Newcastle. In those matches our forwards did not get a sniff, here they had plenty of really good chances. Yesterday was Silva's team plus James and we still created loads!
In Martinez's first year our push for a Champions League place was derailed when we lost at home to Palace after great results against United and Arsenal. In my opinion, this one has been derailed by injuries to important players exposing a squad lacking in the consistent high quality needed to take advantage of “better” teams having a bad season.
I am so frustrated that we haven't taken advantage, but to be honest, we would need hundreds of millions invested in the team to really compete in the Champions League. No doubt our ball would be drawn out against one the sleeping giants in Europe who's had a bad year (Juventus or B Dortmund) anyway.
By the way, in my opinion, Carlo is light years ahead of Koeman, Allardyce, Silva or even the likes of Howe, Dyche and Potter. Carlo can attract proper players to the club, we just need to carry on creating chances and hope that DCL and Riche have been doing lots of shooting practice!!
UTFT

Thomas Richards
318 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:42:03
The squad is not good enough to achieve CL football.
Until we get shut of a lot of players and change the squad substantially nothing will change.
I reckon there was only two, possibly three players from the starting eleven last night who would be good enough to play at that level.
Even that amount is debateable
Danny O’Neill
319 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:48:18
I noticed the James half knee drop at the start. Wasn't easy with it (from a physical perspective).

He still went on to play some good stuff and score with a great finish. That switch pass he does so often must be so predictable and the opposition must know he's going to do it. But he does it and no-one stops it.

Still massively frustrated. Missed opportunity. It's sad because if we do manage 6th or 7th, which will be Europe and would have been considered progress at the start of the season, even the likes of me will be bemoaning what could have been.

Paul A Smith
320 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:48:42
Dave 289. Theres more to aggression than being a dog like McMahon.

Sharp was a team mate of his so it was an easy statement and maybe some modesty from Sharp.

Did you ever doubt his aggression. His volley v Spurs at Goodison when he was 20 was all you needed to see if there were doubts about his aggression.

Ask Richarlison about Calvert Lewin and he'll give him race reviews, all team mates do but at some point they'll be slagging each others commitment or attitude on the pitch.

I want Calvert Lewin to add to his traits and being aggressive or determined will help him.

Does anyone think Drogba was born a naturally aggressive footballer? He sure was when he was 24 and needed more to succeed in the premiership.

Paul A Smith
321 Posted 06/04/2021 at 15:50:56
Jay, nothing more mind boggling than failing to notice Calvert Lewins lack of ability with his feet or even calling him Dom on every reference to him.

I try not to talk out of affection I don't know the lad and if you are seeing aggression in his finishing with his feet you are one in a million mate.

Dave Abrahams
322 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:01:13
Paul (309)” There's more to aggression than being a dog like McMahon”? Well I wish some of these present day Everton players had 10% of the aggression Stevie had not to mention his all round football ability. A dog? Don't let your opinion of him leaving Everton cloud your opinion of him, or do you really think he wasn't a very good player.

Anyway back to the argument, that Sharp goal v Spurs and the one at Anfield were sensational goals but that's not the aggression I'm talking about, one of the best goals I ever saw at Goodison was by Gerry Humphreys, one of the most mild mannered players who ever put on a Blue shirt versus Sheffield Wed, was Derek Temple aggressive, remember his goal versus Sheffield Wed and many more to go with it. I'm talking about his temperament, if you met him you'd understand, he never backed down but it wasn't in his nature to be aggressive.

Andrew Ellams
323 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:05:57
Anybody who doubts how aggressive Graeme Sharp was should look back on the comments of Bayern Munich goalkeeper Jean-Marie Pfaff after the Goodison leg of the semi final against them.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

324 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:06:24
Bizarre Paul.

Now you are calling Dom out (it's his name) for not having 'aggression in his feet' having claimed Niasse had 'better feet' and 'not a shred of aggression Sharp had', making a hybrid of the two.

First, Dom (it's his name) has excellent close control (and 'feet') under pressure.

Second, he is possibly our most fearless and aggressive player, or do you not notice how he batters opposition centre backs and is happy to practice the dark arts and leave one on them to know they are in a game?

If you want to claim his shooting isn't as potent as Sharp's then say that, because your original post is not saying that at all.

On the chances that fell his way last night, it's not power that was required but sharpness and craft. And as I said earlier on that score Dom (it's his name) was a tad 'dull' in that last night and a pulse beat away in his decision making. It happens.

Craig Walker
325 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:17:44
This season is just petering out since the Anfield derby and I'm now looking forward to it being over and done with. It reminds me of the last games during Project Restart last season. We were as bad as I've ever seen us in that final home game against relegated Bournemouth but there have been performances this season which have been equally frustrating. The galling things is that with a half-decent home record, we could be in the top 3.

I still think Carlo needs time and signings. In my opinion, our best players are Godfrey, James, Doucoure and Allan (with Richarlison and Digne when they're in form). We still have too many players who have been bad signings made by past managers and we are being held back as a result.

Some of the comments about DCL are way over the top. The lad needs to work on his finishing but he's been much-improved this season. So too, has Tom Davies. I don't agree about DCL not having aggression or being unable to kick a ball. One of the best finishers I've seen was Romario. He used to pick a spot and often, the ball barely hit the back of the net. He'd send the keeper the wrong way or shift the ball a yard and make the goalkeeper commit. DCL plays the ball too closely to the goalkeeper too often. Contrast this with James last night. One chance, one area where he could put the ball and he finished. That's the difference. The top forwards like Aguero, Sallah, Mane, Kane, need fewer chances and are much more ruthless in front of goal. Unfortunately, those type of players are out of our reach.

As others have said though, it is fine margins. We have ridden our luck at times this season and have been defensively solid. Fans on TW have talked about "defensive masterclasses". The performances at Wolves and Spurs spring to mind. If we had won 1-0 last night then we'd be optimistic again. The paucity of options on the bench tells you everything about the quality of our squad. Letting Kean and Walcott go seemed short-sighted. Getting King in and hardly giving him a chance seems an odd one: we might as well have given Ellis Simms a chance.

I was thinking last night, how many times have all of Carlo's signings played together? It can't be many. Most of them were prominent in the first few games but since we signed Godfrey, I can't think of a time when they all started.

Dave Abrahams
326 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:18:25
Andrew (323), fair enough Andrew, by then he had been playing with Andy Gray, when Graeme first started with the Blues he wasn't very aggressive, but he did add it to his game, by the way Andrew every Everton player was aggressive that night versus Bayern, they had to be, the crowd roared the aggression from their throats right into the Everton players minds, even Sheedy pulled tongues at one of the German players!!!
Mwila Mwenya
327 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:30:07
Brent#316. Yes I do. team called Power Dynamos. haven't watched them much lately though as its now easier to watch the Prem League on TV than it is to watch the local games. In Zambia we basically have all Prem leagues shown live.

Thinking of investing in a lower league team though...just to help them out with kits and logistics though. They could become my new local favorite team.

Jerome Shields
328 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:34:29
Gary#312

All that has to be done is spoil their play, pressurise their shooting and have them shoot from positions that the goalkeeper is comfortable with. The Crystal Palace Goal keeper was very comfortable, whatever his name is. Probably was in comtention for motm for the first time in his career.

Other teams with the space Everton forwards had would have given him a nightmare with movement and running onto to shots. I would describe both Richarlisons and Calvert Lewin forward play to be sterotypical. They are both capable of better movement and positioning, as they are coached to do.

Barry Williams
329 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:37:52
Plus, What is it with Everton's form after a derby? is it just me or does it always seem to drop off the edge of a cliff? Does the team reach such an emotional high that they cannot rediscover their form for a long time after? Weird!
Brian Wilkinson
330 Posted 06/04/2021 at 16:40:21
Colin@310, I am part with you on the way Moyes slithered off to utd and then try to get two of our players on the cheap.

I do not blame him for taking the Utd job at the time, I doubt not many Managers would have turned that opportunity down, likewise with Rooney wanting to sign for them, both occasions we felt how dare you, whereas in reality neither could turn the opportunity down of signing for the best English side at the time.

The way Moyes went running and even buying a new pair of trousers to meet Ferguson was laughable at best.

However for the 11 years he was at Everton, for every youngster or decent players he bought, his had to sell at least one talented player, year in year out to balance the books.

Everytime we looked just a player or so from competing, someone would nip in and take a player or two.

Devil and deep Blue sea, had a decent Manager, but no money to buy, unless we sold, now we have the money we had to go through 4 Managers, before landing Carlo.

Take another season or so, before we can finally get rid of a lot of the players bought by the previous 4 Managers,

Once that happens and we can build a stronger squad not just starting 11, but quality strength in depth as well.

Darren Hind
331 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:05:39
You have to chuckle

After a win. Carlo fantastico has improved these players no end. They have thrived under his err tutelage. . . then when we lose they are all back to being crap again.

If there is such a thing as reincarnation I want to come back as Carlo. His acolytes give him all the credit when we win and exonerate him of the blame when we lose.

15 months of zombie football and not only is it everyone elses fault...we are meant to be grateful to Carlo for serving it up.

Danny O’Neill
332 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:07:53
Personally gents, I don't like confusing aggression with desire.

Vini Jones had aggression. Some would argue desire, but it didn't mean I wanted (or would want) players like him at Everton.

Kevin Sheedy was not know for outwardly "get stuck in" aggression, but he had desire to win and compete.

I think the Steve McMahon example is a great one of combining aggression with desire.

I also think Ben Godfrey is blessed with natural controlled aggression and desire.

I know it's a play with words, but I know what I mean when I say there is a difference between aggression and desire. We can all, if we wanted, do a 2 footer tackle and be considered aggressive. But a good player controls that aggression with a desire to win.

Brian Williams
333 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:08:03
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Kieran Kinsella
334 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:11:03
Colin/Brian

Moyes would make a great civil servant. A miserly, penny pinching jobsworth who efficiently keeps his books in tact. But two things throw him off kilter: expectation and money. The minute he's in line for a promotion at work he freaks out because of his inferiority complex. When he has money he's like a drunk lottery winner blowing his cash on cocaine and Bilyaletdinovs. Obviously the WHU season is freaking him out as he's already talking about considering bids for Rice and Soucek. If he's sells them, blows his cash on blow the team will tank and he can blame it on being a “selling club.” Then if he avoids the sack he can quietly rebuild in his jobsworth counting house far from the madding crowd.

Kieran Kinsella
335 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:13:21
Brian 333

So it's not just me then experiencing de ja vu at regular intervals every day in every thread

Brent Stephens
336 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:15:17
Mwila #327 "Thinking of investing in a lower league team though...just to help them out with kits and logistics though".

Do you mean you personally are thinking of investing money in them? I feel a strong friendship between the two of us is about to start!

John Daley
337 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:17:50
Ancelotti is respected by nigh on everybody in the game and that gives him an instant authority very few of our former managers possessed. Chuck in the number of trophies won, the clubs who have hired him and the players he has worked with previously, then you can see why some have complete faith in his ability to get things right.

However, past achievements elsewhere should not absolve the man from scrutiny of the performances he's overseeing here, at this present moment in time, and I don't see why people get such a bee in their bonnet whenever someone pipes up to say they're struggling to buy into him.

It's almost as though some are so overly enamoured with the idea of a ‘big name' being in charge that they are prepared to go balls deep with unwavering backing on that basis alone. Some (for whatever reason, whether that be they think he's past it, never had it, or looks too much like Grandpa Munster let out the lab) didn't want him in the first place and will dig the knife in at every possible opportunity. Others, would prefer to keep mind open, fingers crossed and simply see how things play out before praising or pillorying

Despite deliberately planting my feet in that third category, I have still found some of the gushing comments and ‘Carlo Fantastico' shite (from both supporters and pundits) to have been excruciatingly over the top and premature. I've seen statements like ‘Ancelotti is the best thing ever to happen to Everton', ‘If Everton don't win trophies under Ancelotti then they never will', ‘Ancelotti has transformed the whole mindset and culture of the club', ‘These sort of players would never have signed for Everton before Ancelotti' etc... when thus far we've achieved fuck all, faced no competition from any comparable clubs when it comes to procuring a player and followed up a long-awaited victory at Anfield with feeble showings in the next 4 league games and a Moyes-esque cup exit where the focus was firmly on defending doggedly for 90 minutes while occasionally shouting “not the face”.

It's one thing to believe in the guy and be glad that he's here, it's another thing entirely to attempt to canonise his arse when it's currently getting kicked about his own gaff with great regularity.

It's true Ancelotti has got to be given time to implement his ideas but we should, by now, at least be gleaning some sort of impression of what those ideas might be, surely?

There is no clear identity forming, no picture out on the pitch coming into focus and, for me at least, it's difficult to pinpoint exactly what kind of team Ancelotti is trying to shape here 15 months after walking through the door.

There is rarely even the faintest flicker of fluidity in our play. Instead stilted, painfully slow progression up the pitch is the order of the day, in the hope we can eventually work it out wide for a cross, punctured by repeated, lazy and often needless turning and playing the ball back only for Michael Keane to lump it long.

How many good performances have this team put in, from first whistle to last? Even in games where the result has gone our way we have been outplayed for large periods of the game. Opposition teams have more shots on goal than we do with alarming regularity.

Burnley, Fulham, Newcastle, West Ham and Leeds didn't come to Goodison and just dig in, sit back and scrape a win. They all comprehensively outplayed and out fought us. Cue the familiar cries of ‘how can Carlo compete with the crap at his disposal?' and ‘he's used to working with better quality players' etc. Strip the Caped Crusader of his bat-suit and kit him out as Barney the Dinosaur instead and you might reasonably expect it to impede his crime fighting efficiency against top-tier super villains, but with his vast years of training and elite-level experience he still shouldn't be getting viciously filled in by a fuming Karen kicking off over some perceived slight outside fucking Farm Foods.

Only Burnley and West Brom have created less chances from open play than Carlo Ancelotti's Everton team this season. That is shocking.

What has put points on the board is the fact that our conversion of said chances has been unusually high in large part because of Calvert Lewin being in barnstorming form earlier in the season. However...as has been shown recently... that is simply not sustainable. The game against Burnley unfolded like many we have won this season with the sole difference being Calvert Lewin only slotted one of the chances to come his way. Yesterday Richarlison finished with his feet like he'd just wriggled off Annie Wilkes' fucking bed. Miss some/score some is a normal state of affairs for any striker. Nobody is going to net every time. What we need to do is to find a way to actually take a game to the opposition, to increase the tempo and create far more chances so that each and every miss isn't instantly perceived as fatal to our chances of picking up points.

Add in the fact that we have the worst defensive record in the top half of the table and are also piss poor in possession then it is clear very few of this teams faults have actually been solved, but were merely smudged over by a much better than expected start to the season.

Listening to some of the pre-match pundits on auto-pilot proceed to wax lyrical about how Ancelotti is a winner and how he has Everton ‘challenging for a Champions League place' this season, immediately prior to witnessing the latest in a line of turgid, lacklustre performances reminds me of ‘The Irishman'. A crap cgi faced Robert De Niro (risibly being referred to by everybody around him as ‘the kid') stomping ‘menacingly' toward a guy on the deck....but in reality looking like a jerky, post-shit, piss-can in a public toilet complete with keks round his ankles, after realising too late there's no bog roll remaining and he best try to make a break for the adjacent cubicle at an ambling speed sufficiently cautious but swift enough to avoid severe cementing of both arse checks....before supposedly pummelling his grounded foe with ‘powerful' boots about the body and face that wouldn't flatten fucking candy floss without it bouncing straight back:


Link


So far, the body of work Ancelotti has been building up here has been way more ‘Warburtons Bread commercial', or ‘Rocky and Bullwinkle', so let's not make out like we've all been sitting through Raging Bull.

Brent Stephens
338 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:18:26
Kieran, you do have to chuckle!
Dale Self
339 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:19:52
Easy there Darren, that isn't exactly the take from the Carlo supporters. I'm willing to take some stick for another failed restart. I need to read the rest of the thread to make sure I don't serve up a pile so I will return with a more complete mea culpa after I crawl into a Zoom casket for a bit.
Stephen Vincent
340 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:29:53
John Daley #337, post of the thread by a distance.
Danny O’Neill
341 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:31:06
Very balanced John Daley. I too would put myself in the 3rd category you call out. It's been 15 months and is clearly going to take a lot longer to sort this out than 15 months.

But in the interim, poor performances by players and manager alike should absolutely be called out.

Sad thing is, last night wasn't as bad as some of the previous ones, which makes it even more frustrating. That game should have been beyond sight and the substitutions shouldn't have mattered. But then that is perhaps poor on the coaching side; it was still only 1 - 0, so why change it?

Derek Knox
342 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:40:43
Darren H @230, " The strikers did miss chances. All strikers do! Totally agree Darren, but and there is always a but, no-one expects every chance to be buried, but you would expect a hit of one in three or four. I don't know what it is, I am talking Everton here, as I haven't watched other teams with the same intensity, but do try and watch as many games as I can.

The point I am making is this, when a player (Everton) is having an off-day the whole team seem to follow suit, and while eventually the nameless player get's subbed the malaise seems to carry on as if it is somehow, contracted by all the others.

John Daley @ 337, great to see you back John, with your analysis and humour in balanced proportion. I was only asking not so long ago if anyone knew what had 'happened' to you, but glad my fears have been allayed. Please make it more regularly as you do have an appreciation, by me at any rate.

Stephen Vincent
343 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:54:58
I have been trying to remain objective about Carlo, his teams, and comments. I consider myself to be in John Daley's Cat 3.

But 'I withdrew James because he was tired'. Do me a favour, he hasn't played for a month and is not exactly the most energetic of players on the pitch. He should try working 14 hour shifts at the Royal for far less in a year than he makes in a week. Unbelievable.

It does demonstrate though how far Ancelotti has to go to empathise with the fans. I am told by Italian friends that he had the same problem at Napoli, a club with a very similar demographic to Everton.

Simon Dalzell
344 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:55:33
John Daley. ( 337. ) Top stuff. Best post for quite a while. Of course Mr. Ancelotti needs a good deal more time, but I've been disappointed with our team selection, negative tactics, game management ( poor, late, or no subs. ) I think he tries to be too ' cute ', and ignores the obvious. He perplexes me at times.
Darren Hind
345 Posted 06/04/2021 at 17:58:59
John Daley

Fantastic stuff. You have been missed.

I cant wait to see those who don't recognise themselves make a dive to join you in "the third category "

I see its already started just four posts after you said it

Paul A Smith
346 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:00:08
Jay, nothing more mind boggling than failing to notice Calvert Lewins lack of finishing ability with his feet.

I can't call him Dom every time I refer to him, it'd feel like there is affection influencing my analysis of him.

I just watch him and see no skill with time on the ball. Jelavic was a great one touch finisher and great in the air and he got stick for the same problems Calvert Lewin has.

If you are seeing aggression in his finishing you are one in a million mate.

Each to their own though I hope he curls one in the top bin from 20 yards this weekend so I can see a memorable goal from him.

Darren 331, I blamed Carlo partly for yesterday and I am fully behind him. Had 2 chances been taken we wouldn't need to mention him but they weren't taken and he made poor decisions.

Do you honestly think the club will progress by going gung ho in games and losing some of the caution, like Under Martinez, Silva, Koeman to an Extent?

Personally I think we need to do whatever it takes to get to the top level the we'll probably have a new manager if we get there anyway.

Hes not here for 10 years and I would like him to leave the club in a position where we are not rebuilding yet again.

Followed by the hype and "futures bright" nonsense only to be smacked in the face with reality when we try to play open football against Palace and Stoke.

We have been down that road with better players and its cost Moshiri millions and set us back.

As boring as it is ( and I am glad i've had no season ticket this season) we need to do something different than recent years or keep being Everton.

Brighton go for it every week would you swap positions with them?

Dale Self
347 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:01:18
Carlo may indeed be about to pay a price for a gamble gone bad. There have been times where playing it tight with a small veteran squad looked like a very clever way to stay in contention when the size of the playable squad should have ruled it out. That was the reason for the so called blind faith, we could see the reasoning and thought he could see a way to make it work. Still haven't read all the posts so I will come back for another round later.
Tom Bowers
348 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:02:05
Everton started this game like most others this season, lethargic and unimaginative which allows other teams to get a foothold and believe they can get something out of the game which they have often done particularly at Goodison.

Despite what happened in the second half, the one goal just wasn't enough because Everton just can't defend well when it matters.

They don't have the class personnel to shut down even the poorest teams where it matters and that is the middle of the park.

Those utilized in that area are a tad slow to say the least and cannot get behind the ball quick enough when the opposition are in possession.

Oddly enough Everton have had very poor results following each of the RS games.

It's impossible to see Everton finishing in the top six

Hopefully Carlo will be addressing these issues before next season comes around and should forget about any Euro aspirations right now.

Let's get some of the young guns into the team and see what they can do because they sure couldn't do any worse than this lot.

Tony Everan
349 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:02:06
John 337, on the money there. Carlo will bemoan the continual injuries to Allan and James as being disruptive to him forming a pattern of play. But at their age and with their injury records it can be argued that these players were never going to be our bread and butter, they are the jar of lovely Bon Mamman jam in the squad.

I am desperately hoping that Carlo doesn't go down the ‘old boy' route this summer and instead goes down the Ben Godfrey route. We need more bread and butter players to formulate a team structure, and homogenise into a cohesive, organised team. Quality players we can depend on , understand each other and grow together. Only then will we start playing as a proper Everton team should.

Brent Stephens
350 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:04:47
Great stuff, John.

I'm in the third camp.

"Some... didn't want him in the first place and will dig the knife in at every possible opportunity". Quite.

Darren Hind
351 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:06:51
This is going to be funny.

Brent Stephens (the guy who called somebody a twat on the LF because he criticised Carlo ?

"I`m in the third category" hahahahah

Brent Stephens
352 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:09:52
It's already hilarious.

"Some... didn't want him in the first place and will dig the knife in at every possible opportunity". And our man doesn't even see the relevance of that! You couldn't write it. Well he just did!

Thomas Richards
353 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:09:55
"If there is such a thing as reincarnation I want to come back as Carlo."


Good luck with that.
You would have to get the legs on his kecks taken up though.

Brent Stephens
354 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:16:09
Darren Hind, "I'm in the third category. I've always had an open mind about him and still have".

Couldn't write it!

Bobby Mallon
355 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:19:38
John Daley 337. Yes our home form has been piss poor this season for what ever reason, I can't work out. But our away form has been brilliant won 9 drew 2 lost 3. Those away games have not been turgid or boring they have been quite entertaining.

Yesterday was a really good game ( in my opinion) if the two forwards had converted their chances then it's a different thread.

Lots focus on our home shit football form, but never mention our very good away form and performances. This is the premiership it's much fucking harder than any league in Europe/ the world. Ffs the baggies twatted Chelsea should we have kept Sam ( no we should not).

What where the expectations at the season start, I bet all evertonians would have taken being 8th on 47 points with us having 9 games to go only 5 points off 4th place and a game in hand.

Steve Barr
356 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:33:22
Hi Mwila,

Good to see a fellow Zambian who supports Everton!

I lived in Zambia for 6 years back in the 1970s, first in Kabwe then moved to Kitwe.

I don't recall Power Dynamos back in those days and followed Kabwe Warriors as that was our first home in Zambia.

My second team was Mufulira Warriors. Had to be with a name like that!


Tony Abrahams
357 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:37:15
We haven't got enough forwards but I'd bet the first thing Ancellotti will want to do is sign another centre back, because it's probably the lower teams that score more against Everton, (just a guess) When they don't play with eleven men behind the ball?
Brent Stephens
358 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:42:53
Tony, any tastey centre backs you'd fancy?
Danny O’Neill
359 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:52:53
Called that a few weeks ago Tony. Maybe not for the same reason you're saying, but when we got increasingly linked with Koulibaly. Some (myself included) would say its not a priority, but I would definitely take that as it is better than what we have, which is what our transfer priorities should be. A combination of improving the here and now balanced with some future prospect investment.

I think the majority on here are in John's 3rd category to be fair. Some are overly the manager can do no wrong, others will continuously see no right as they didn't want him or don't want him. But I think most glad to have someone of his standing in the game. I've said before that Chelsea and then City done the stepping stone approach of improving the manager, which gradually helped them improve the team. But over years, not 15 months. Bear in mind some were judging (both ends of the spectrum) after 4 months. John puts it better than most of us try to.

I hope the manager improves our position and improves the standard of the squad, with a trophy and European football along the way. But that will be after 3 - 4 years. Then the next incumbent will be an improvement on Ancelotti with a better platform to build on from the one he was handed over.

Kieran Kinsella
360 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:53:21
John Daley

I wouldn't say we were "outplayed" by West Ham, Burnley or Newcastle. We had much more possession and the same number of shots on goal. The difference was that they were more efficient, and because our expectations were higher we view it more negatively than a neutral would. Fulham and Leeds, yes they were better in every respect and deserved to win. No bones about it.

As for the "style." It's classic Serie A style, slow, trying to pass around and wait for high percentage opportunities be it from open play or set pieces. England got all the way to the world cup semi final with a game plan heavily reliant on set pieces. Nothing in the rules against that. Now, does everyone like the style? Apparently not. Many would prefer a fast counter attacking style like Leicester or to copy Liverpool. But that's different to saying there isn't a style. The other thing is how well we execute the style. All too often we run into trouble with the slow composed build up because Gomez is slow witted, Richarlison is selfish, or because Sigurdsson chooses not to participate. The gameplan is there, the execution is lacking.

Now you could argue "well let's play a different way then," in which case I would say lack of speed (Gomez, Sig, James, the CBs) lack of ability (Iowbi, Davies) prevents us from trying to emulate Liverpool style wise.

I personally believe that Carlo has improved players (DCL for eg) and that given time the team will do well under him.

Andy Crooks
361 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:55:37
Good to hear from you John D. Hope all is well. I am in a fourth category; go ballistic, totally nuts, fret for days, when we are played off the field far to often at home. Do whatever the opposite of that is when we,say, win at Anfield. No grey areas.
What you have done, though, John, and I am glad to see it, is to point out quite clearly that the " King is in the all together, the all together the all together.. "

Tony Abrahams
362 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:58:58
Someone big, aggressive and quick Brent, who is also decent on the ball! I don't watch enough football to have a name in mind mate, but I think we need four players minimum, and hopefully this is what we've been slowly clearing the decks for, with a bit of luck.

Liverpudlians seem to know quite a bit about Ancellotti, I was talking to the only one I can debate with sensibly, and when I said I don't like playing without natural width, my mate said Ancellotti's teams are usually narrow in midfield, so it's something I'm looking forward to finding out.

I think you need to have quick technical players, if you prefer not to play with much width, and as much as it was horrible to watch, I think our best games have been when we had four centre backs playing right across the back four?

I'm hoping Ancellotti is just trying to instil a defensive pragmatic game into us because he finds the other side of the game much easier to implement, but that's something we aren't going to find out until he signs more players?

Paul A Smith
363 Posted 06/04/2021 at 18:59:38
Brent, Tony. I don't see the Koulibaly links coming to fruition but someone in that mould has to be the target.

Europe is usually loaded with fresh CBs amongst the French and German Leagues.

Keane always gets found out the higher he pushes and it can't go on. Shame Mina is unreliable with fitness because I think he'd be solid over 38 games.

I think we need a Keeper, Right Back, 2 Central Midfielders, a natural Left footed wide man and and Centre Forward, all of very good quality at least to even think about becoming a top side.

I'd take Celik at Right Back all day over Aarons too.

Kieran Kinsella
364 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:02:45
Tony 357

You might be right but I hope not unless we can unload some of the CBs we have and I can't see us getting the kind of money we'd want for them in this market.
My priorities would be a right back, a striker and someone who can play wide and create for us

Brent Stephens
365 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:05:40
Tony, Paul, thanks both.

Paul, Celik is one I don't know much about (to be honest I can't say I'm that well up on possible buys for us in the next window). Other teams being linked with him?

Paul A Smith
366 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:17:12
Brent, like most players now, its hard to say what links are true but I think we have been linked with him and I saw Milan were too.

His agent (like most agents) will be throwing all kinds of names out there.

From the stories I have read, Ancelotti would prefer a tall Right Back.

Thomas Richards
367 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:18:06
In my opinion a fast, comitted centre half should be priority.
Paired with Godfrey would allow us to play higher.
Automatically gets rid of the oceans of space our current set up gives the opposition.
No good proritising forwards before a centre half.
The forwards have to score at least two a game to secure the win given the ability of some of our centre halfs and thier giveaway schoolboy errors
Brent Stephens
368 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:21:03
Paul, so Celik is a tad taller than Coleman, it seems. Close to six feet.
Colin Malone
369 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:21:24
Barry # 298
Totally agree Barry. Players earnings in one month, that we earn in all our working life. Yes your right, who needs passion when you're guaranteed between 60 and 200 grand a week.
Bogdan Kotarlic
370 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:24:34
We played well, we created several goal chances but, at the end, it was enough only for a draw. Their keeper, Guaita, was the Man of the Match by far with six excellent saves and it says it all. We shouldn't have conceded that equalising goal, scored only five minutes before the end of the game. And our defence was so naive on that occasion, they should have reacted better.

Our dismal home record continues. I don't know if it is because of the absence of the supporters at Goodison or is it something else but our home form this season is awful. If we had played better at Goodison, we would be now in the top four.

We played well yesterday and probably deserved to win. Crystal Palace also played well and had their chances. But the main difference was Guaita and his excellent performance. When a keeper has that sort of a match, there is not much you can do about that.

We scored one goal but that was it. Maybe Richarlison and Calvert-Lewin could have reacted better on those occasions but their goalkeeper was outstanding and that is the story of this game.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

371 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:25:16
More bizarreness from you Paul.

You have coined a completely new phrase in this thread I have never ever heard before, least of all related to football parlance.

'Aggressive feet'.

Even now I haven't a Scooby what it means. I'm guessing (with nothing to go on from the content of your posts) that it might mean shooting potency, having a powerful shot.

Would that he right? If it is I haven't made any sort of declaration or evaluation about Dom (it's his name) on his shooting prowess with his 'aggressive feet' as you falsely presume.

Having earlier referenced Graeme Sharp and stating Dom (it's his name) doesn't have 'a shred of his aggression' (oh yes he does. In spades), you now pluck the name of Jelavic out of the hat and, showing you can get some things right, correctly note Dom (it's his name) shares his efficiency in one-touch and headed goals.

This highlights reel of all Dom's (it's his name) 2020 goals reinforces that showing that he has skilful feet, if not the mysterious still-undefined 'aggressive feet.'

Dom's (it's his name) 2020 Goals

To those shown you can add his 4 goals for England and 4 more for Everton in 2021. They highlight again his speed and anticipation in being in the right place and 'skilful feet' and head in mostly taking just one touch to finish.

Dom (it's his name) has 'no skill with time on the ball' you claim. Watch from the link his goals v Newcastle last season and v WHU from Keane's exquisite chipped pass.

Plenty of memorable goals from the lad in the areas he performs his goal scoring skills best in.

But I guess, based on your posts this far, unless and until he smacks one in 'the top bin from 20 yards' you will continue to diss him on very flimsy grounds.

Was his goal in the 5-4 cup win over Spurs an example of 'aggressive feet'?

Just asking as an attempt to establish what the hell you're on about.

Tony Abrahams
372 Posted 06/04/2021 at 19:50:54
Although he never scored, I'd say Lewin's aggressive take on the chest, whilst both feet were off the floor, leading to a first time volley, would have definitely been a contender for goal of the season if it had gone in earlier in the season at Sheff Utd, and makes me wonder why he doesn't do that type of thing more often?
Stan Schofield
373 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:07:13
Jay@371: Great post, and the one @312.

That DCL goal against WHU, from Keane's Bechenbauresque long ball, was absolutely top class. And not untypical of DCL's footballing abilities. But when I read some of the criticisms of him on here, I don't really know what the fuck they're talking about.

Similar with Richy. When he's on form he's apparently world class and we can't win without him, but when he struggles (as ALL players do) he's apparently childish and arrogant and can fuck off elsewhere.

I could go on similarly for other players, but fuck it, you get the drift.

Similarly for Ancelotti. Those who praise him in the slightest are, when there's a bad result, sycophants who fail to see that he's here only for one last payout to boost his pension. Yesterday's man, a football dynosaur no better than Allardyce.

There's a psychological thing called ‘anchoring'. This is when someone starts out with an opinion, and despite any evidence that might place that opinion in doubt, they stick with that opinion, and cherry-pick anything that they think supports it. They stay anchored in the opinion. Some might say that this is part and parcel of debate anongst Evertonians on this site. But I say it's just fuckin tedious in the extreme.

Brian Wilkinson
374 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:13:52
Our strongest starting 11 can give most teams a game, the problem is since the good start to the season and straight after our Goodison Derby, we have never since, had our strongest 11 on the pitch at the same time.

Started off with Richarlison suspension, then we had both Coleman and Digne out at the same time, followed by Rodriguez, then Allan, get Allan back then Doucoure ends up out, Mina in and out, Calvert-Lewin out, Pickford out, then Olsen, plenty more that have missed games through a knock.

That is the problem we face, just a bang average back up, when players get injured, those moaning bastards across the park for the first time as long as I can remember have had a few injuries, I doubt there is a club in the world is as cursed as Everton for long term injuries over the years.

That is the problem we have at the moment, our decent players just cannot catch a break on the injury front.

It is like trying to replace Raquel Welch for a lass from out of the Grafton, you hope it pays off, but you know damn well you will not get the same satisfaction or result.

Martin Mason
375 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:17:26
Stan, you have it in one, confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance at every turn, perhaps psychological irregularities of some kind? The club is far better off without this type of so called supporter because they can't actually influence anything, only be a vexation to the spirit of everybody else who supports the club.
Brian Murray
376 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:27:11
Brian. Post 374. All very valid points about the injuries. Doesn't really let Carlo off the hook about in game management re subs and continued picking of a static midfield but he's the best we have had for a long time especially his pulling power ( not in the grafton ). Already been said this is a very different thread if we take at least one of them chances. Just a continuous circle being a blue while them shiesters get lorded on by sky and the media in yet another big euro event. Really need a good window especially the back up players. No more siggy Gomes iwobi and even Coleman. A great servant but somehow we need buyers for these one paced losers.. Easier said than done. Kin choca with it all as I say especially them shower won't go away,
Phil Bickerstaff
377 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:33:52
We desperately need a good no 9 to play up front with Richy
Don't want euro footy next year unless our squad is drastically added to.
Just shows how big our squad is when you see 2 keepers on the bench with not one player that can change the game off the bench.
Simon Dalzell
378 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:40:16
Slightly off topic, what a fantastic assist, lovely cushioned header. 2 - 0.
Peter Warren
379 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:49:50
I've been really pleased with Ancelotti's signings and think we're faring far better than the last 3 managers (not including temporary ones). I've seen an up turn in performances from many existing players including Pickford, Keane, Mina Davies and most of all DCL.

Gomez has not fared well although I just hope a proper pre season with no injuries will see him come good.

I think Richarlison's form has been in the main not as good under Ancelotti but I am hopeful he will come good as we get better players and as such, play better football. I can see why people weary as he is Italian and so concerned about defensive footy but he has always signed very forward thinking players and his teams have always played slick attacking football previously.

Personally I think we have the right man and just time needed big time will tell. I like the man and that goes a long way with me (it did with Martinez who I really like as a man too although time showed he was not the coach for us)

Rob Halligan
380 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:52:40
Stan # 373. Brilliant post, and agree 100% with what you say!
Brian Murray
381 Posted 06/04/2021 at 20:57:05
It seems to be a default reaction when mentioning Gomes to suggest the injury he had and then say wait until next pre season yada yada. He was very hit and miss before the injury and that's putting it mildly. This league is way too fast for him. Especially with his one laced mate next to him. Really need a total clearout even as back up these players just keep dragging us down a level.
Thomas Richards
382 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:03:31
Stan Schofield.

Seriously good post there mate

Colin Glassar
383 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:08:35
Take a double encore, Stan Schofield. Sometimes, after a loss, TW is akin to Dante's Inferno.
Brian Williams
384 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:23:43
Stan#373.
Very good point mate re anchoring, and there ARE some right anchors on here sometimes.

Brian Murray
385 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:26:31
Brian. Don't butter them up say what you feel. Just spread it around
Mike Gaynes
386 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:27:34
Gotta say, Stan, you nailed it.
Brian Williams
387 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:31:36
Brian#385.
Spread the butter? 🤣
Kieran Kinsella
388 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:33:49
Brian

"It is like trying to replace Raquel Welch for a lass from out of the Grafton"
Blimey, Raquel Welch? What is she like 80? That's like a Walter Smith era signing.

Brian Murray
389 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:41:52
Kieran, nothing that a weak light bulb and six pints wouldn't cure, I'd still give her a pice of my valuable time !
Brendan McLaughlin
390 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:45:08
Brian #389
Are the six pints for you or Raquel?
Brian Murray
391 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:46:45
Ha ha well there is that way of looking at it
Andy Crooks
392 Posted 06/04/2021 at 21:55:08
Stan @ 373, I think I see the point you are making but there really are no absolutes with Everton. Unfortunately we are inconsistent enough for it to be so. However open minded one is, a performance like those against Fulham or Burnley is quite enough to entrench the anchored view of anyone who might doubt Carlo.
I thought we played okay last night. Losing because of missed chances, lots of them, is palatable for me. We can debate the detail of the tactics. I agree with Christy that subbing Seamus was a mistake and a game changer but it should have been over by then anyway.
I support Carlo and I expect improvement next season. We can and have played some decent football. But..does anyone else wonder what would have been the outcome had Silva, Allardyce, Ferguson or Unsworth presided over some of the dirge we have witnessed this season.
The signs of improvement are in our league position and that is inarguable. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more in how we actually play. Something to make me think we are close or on the right track.
However, these things often just fall into place. A bit of luck, a bit of believe, that indefinable something. This magic dust tends to land where the ground is prepared. I remain of the view that Carlo is putting that in place.
Derek Knox
393 Posted 06/04/2021 at 22:05:54
Colin G @ 383, Dante's Inferno, what League are they in, Serie A ? :-)
Dave Brierley
394 Posted 06/04/2021 at 22:08:22
Just love these mentions of the Grafton. God, I had some great nights there.

You really never knew what you picked up each night and I don't mean std''s.

The low lights, the close dancing, the gradual sobering up, the horror.

And then the match on Saturday .

Wow.. life's a bitch

Stan Schofield
395 Posted 06/04/2021 at 22:31:10
Andy@392: Yes, good points. We've played a spectrum of football so far this season, from sparkling attacking creativity and goals, to defensive dourness and gritty endeavour. Our away form is very good, our home form not good.

We've had a bad run of injuries, of that there is no doubt. Other clubs complain constantly of fewer injuries than we've had, Liverpool being the pinnacle of moaning bastards. We just get on with it despite the injuries, and I'd have it no other way. I can't stand these fuckers like Klopp and Mourinho who are serial moaners and cheating bastards, constantly bringing the game into disrepute.

We signed Allen, Doucoure and James, and they had an immediate effect. But then injuries stymied it all, started by the thug van Dijk deliberately taking out James in the first derby. Dirty cheating bastard that van Dijk is, then they have the audacity to complain constantly about his injury that was simply Karma, what goes round comes round.

We have to get behind Everton, behind Ancelotti, and especially behind the players, because there are enough corrupt cheating bastards out there eager to undermine anything to do with Everton, and we don't want to be criticising the club, manager or players unless it is absolutely warranted.

We're so fucking shite this season under Ancelotti, that if we carry on in this way, with the points per game ratio of just over 1.6, we'll end up with around 62 points, which is IMPROVEMENT compared to what we've been achieving in past seasons. And improvement is all that we can reasonably expect.

So I'll say it again, keep calm and carry on.

Brian Wilkinson
396 Posted 06/04/2021 at 22:36:43
Kieran @388 Raquel maybe 80 but still younger than some of those from the Grafton :-)
Phil Bickerstaff
397 Posted 06/04/2021 at 23:07:26
Stan @373
My anchor is the fact that DCL is not good enough as our first pick CF and never will be.
He can only scores in the 6 yard box
Can't remember when he scored a 1on1 and he has had a lot
Bit like Graham Stewart missed more than he scored
We need a liniker esk player who never misses
Si Cooper
398 Posted 06/04/2021 at 23:16:27
Being on shifts I am slowly working my way through my recording of the Palace game. So far I've got to half time.
I have two genuine multipart questions:
What exactly is ‘zombie' football and why are people applying it to this game? I am not seeing endless repetitive sideways or backwards passing only for the keeper to end up hoofing it a significant portion of the time. I've seen generally positive play from both flanks and down the middle when we have the ball, and plenty of running / hard work when we don't have it to close down their options. Okay, we don't move the ball as quickly or directly as Citeh or the RS, and we are not as astute at pinching the ball back in the opposition half as some, but it is far from boring, negative, panicked or chaotic. First 10 minutes were even, next 15 or so were dominated by us with the big problem being the lack of composure for the assist or the conversion. Gomes going off seemed to allow them to get back into the game so that 15/ 20 minutes up to half time was more even again. However, we absolutely dominated in chances created in first half despite lagging a bit behind in possession stats (47 % to 53 %). How does that equate to boring, negative football?
Second question is why aren't people seeing the marked improvement in Gomes play? For about 4 or 5 games now he has been far more mobile, hungry, diligent and disciplined than we had got used to seeing. Did the people who are saying he literally does nothing worthwhile not see the two turnovers he caused that probably should have led directly to 2 goals? Okay, on the first he fluffed it a bit himself but he had milliseconds to react when Richy set off at a sprint straight towards their box. I think many players in those circumstances (having just won a competition for the ball) would assume their team-mate was taking care of being onside. The alternative is to take the time to double check where the defenders are, by which time any advantage could have evaporated.
Is the improvement I am seeing sufficient? Well, for me it elevates him back to bordering on being an asset for us going forwards. The consistency has definitely come on leaps and bounds. He is not error free but looks much less error prone and has some real ability to distribute the ball over short and long range. A proper pre-season could get him properly sorted. £22 million really doesn't buy you a lot these days in the ridiculous world of footballer valuations (massive amount though it is in the real world). To me he is (currently) off the list of ‘deadwood'.
I know the result so I'm not expecting to enjoy the second half too much. However, I hope it will answer questions such as:
Is the whole game plan just to score first and then park the bus (no matter when we score) as some say?
Was the notion of conserving our ageing right back and rather fragile best creative player and merely relying on highly paid professional players to see out the last quarter of the game really utterly preposterous?
Is our salvation actually to be found in a group of discarded players who had routinely failed to deliver when previously called upon?
Geoff Lambert
399 Posted 06/04/2021 at 23:19:43
Phil 397
Nailed it lad.
Brian Wilkinson
400 Posted 06/04/2021 at 23:19:52
Si@398, spoiler alert just past the 70 min mark, when we sub Coleman and Rodriguez, make sure you watch the last 20 mins after the watershed, you might think you have sat on your remote and it is on slow rewind.
Brian Wilkinson
401 Posted 06/04/2021 at 23:48:36
More chance of Everton nailing 4th spot, than our neighbours fans not turning up for the second leg, and trying to disrupt the Madrid team bus.
Dale Self
402 Posted 06/04/2021 at 00:03:40
Si, I'm with you on Gomes just laying low since it has become so ridiculous, i.e. the Nyarko comparisons. I think we've got a filter on the live forum that kept me from getting a red card.
Kieran Kinsella
403 Posted 07/04/2021 at 00:16:51
Si

I think Darren learnt some new words whilst losing at scrabble. Now he's determined to work those words: zombie, sycophant, and frothing into every post.

Danny O’Neill
404 Posted 07/04/2021 at 02:23:52
Up with restless dogs and scrolling through the gossip columns. Something is going on in the centre back area as more talk of selling Mina. I know its gossip & speculation that should be taken with a pinch of salt, but its getting persistent.

Also Tottenham linked with Sabitzer. If they are in ring for him we should be.

Would Norwich's likely promotion effect a move for Aaron's I wonder.

Maybe it's the dogs that are up with a restless me!

Darren Hind
405 Posted 07/04/2021 at 02:43:13
Stan Schofield 373

I had to open a window here when I read your post. the stench of hypocrisy is suffocating.

I laughed out loud when I saw you were talking about "Anchoring" Oh the irony. It would appear you have somehow picked up the term without quite grasping the fact that it doesnt only apply to people who don't subscribe to the fingers-in-the-ears denial which permanently clouds your judgement

The difference between Carlo's critics and you is that they recognise themselves. They do not set themselves up as paragons of virtue endlessly defending the rotten mast to which they have nailed their colours
You seem to think you are "outing" those who have had a belly full of anti football. You're not. We are already out and we are growing in numbers and we find apologism such as yours really tedious too.

If we are talking about the three categories JD eludes to. Then I am most definitely in camp two. I never wanted this guy. I never liked his style of football and I never believed he could work with these players I hate his anti football and I will be hammering away every time he sets out to spoil a game. Hope thats clear.
If I'm wrong and Ancelotti delivers the goods. I will come on here and hold my hands up and say so.

99% of Carlo supporters are free thinking open minded Evertonians. They know what they are watching and whilst they are patient and think he will get it right eventually. They will not apologise for shite. They will not make daft arsed claims about massive improvements of players (only to bury the same players as soon as we lose). They will not pretend this anti football we are watching can be construed as anything but These people will come on and offer powerful well reasoned arguments.
The apologist is incapable of raising counter argument. They cannot accept criticism, but they don't have the wherewithal to refute it. They will resort to personal abuse "Fuck off"..."Twat" "Gobshite" to anybody who dares points out that (As AC puts it). "The king is in the all together". They do this because deep down they know the criticism is true...They know that the guy they hailed as Carlofantastico has been here 15 months and we are still the EPL's ugly sister.

"Anchoring" eh ?

Kieran Kinsella
406 Posted 07/04/2021 at 02:58:38
Darren

Seriously you're embarrassing yourself. Stan, nor I, or Thomas, nor Danny, who you highlighted earlier in this thread have called you or anyone else a gobshite or told you to “fuck off”. Yet you call us apologists when according to you that's the definition of an apologist. so how is Stan a hypocrite?

Moreover one poster who did tell a Carlo critic Ian Edwards specifically to “fuck off” you whimpered in front of when he defended his views and said “I don't want to fall out with you because I've heard you are built like a brick shit house.” So, are you assuming that anyone who had a differing view might beat you up? Or are you assuming only Rob is capable of doing you over which is why you pussy foot around when he does PRECISELY what you said you hate but tediously harrass and abuse other posters who don't tell Carlo critics to “fuck off”? have you looked into anger management therapy? Or a mirror?

Darren Hind
407 Posted 07/04/2021 at 03:16:17
What a bizzarre posts

Not for one minute do think Stan would abuse another poster he's far too articulate for that.

As for Rob. I have never had a cross word with him and would be delighted to have a pint with him when we meet - we`ve made arrangements a couple of times but it never panned out/

I descibed the abuse one poster took on the live forum because he criticised Carlo. it wasnt an opinion. It was a fact

Lovely to see you are still hanging on to my every word though

Si Cooper
408 Posted 07/04/2021 at 03:28:34
To be fair to Kieran though Darren, you have portrayed Stan as an apologist (‘endlessly defending the rotten mast to which they have nailed their colours') and then stated that apologists resort to personal abuse because they can't actually refute things. Not hard to see where Kieran is drawing his conclusion from.
Darren Hind
409 Posted 07/04/2021 at 03:42:55
Not really Si

I do think Stans posts is very hypocritical and I do think if he is going to dismiss posts which disagree with his views as "tedious" He has to accept those doing the posting will find his objection equally tedious.

Critics of Carlo on this website may be growing but they are still a definite minority. Its amazing that all the garbage spouted about Carlo is acceptable, yet the 2-3 who criticise him are often told they are tedious or they are not proper supporters, or some other childish remark, for presenting the other side of the same argument....Its called shouting them down.

People who attack Carlo's critics like stan did, do so knowing they will get a lot of "Here, Here's" from the same group of people.

The good news is, It`s Always the same group of people...So who cares ?

Kieran Kinsella
410 Posted 07/04/2021 at 03:55:43
Darren

Stan got here here's from Mike Gaynes and Colin Glassar two of the most popular level headed people on here. Not “the gang” of myself, Dale, Don, Brent, Danny etc that you always call apologists even though we've never called you a gobshite or told you to fuck off which is your criteria of an apologist.

You need to reframe differing opinions as such and not take it personally. If we disagree it doesn't mean we are ganging up or being mean or piling on (like you did with John Daley's pretty reasonable neutral view) it just means we disagree that's it. No frothing mouths, no sycophancy, we just have a different viewpoint than you. Maybe we are right maybe you are. Time will tell but we are just offering our honest opinions as fans of Everton.

Mike Gaynes
411 Posted 07/04/2021 at 04:03:26
So Darren, you equate "tedious" with "the stench of hypocrisy"?

Just checking.

And as to "So who cares?"... apparently you do. Intensely, vehemently and at great length. And, as always, insultingly.

Mwila Mwenya
412 Posted 06/04/2021 at 05:28:05
Brent #336. Yep. Exactly. Personally invest :)
Jim Harrison
413 Posted 07/04/2021 at 06:02:16
If, by some miracle, this team squeezed in the champions league s as of then got into the competition proper it would be a blood bath. The squad needs significant improvement to be able to compete at that level.

Finishing in Europa league places would be an achievement given current form. And that is realistically the best we could expect and hope that Carlo gets a decent amount to improve the squad.

Darren Hind
414 Posted 07/04/2021 at 06:40:19
So Mike

When somebody who shares you unwavering support for this manager calls the opposing view "Fuckin tedious in the extreme" He has, as far as your concerned "nailed it"...but when its countered by a much milder "your's is tedious too." ...Its "insulting"

Thanks Mr Gaynes.

I was searching for the perfect example of the hypocrisy I was talking about...And you've just provided it.

And your wrong about me caring about jibes too I just wont be shouted down by them.

Years ago I wrote an article hammering the signings of Koeman and Steve Walsh. You came on all guns blazing accusing me of being the boy who killed Tinkerbell (sigh) because I wouldnt clap.
Since then you have clapped and whooped through some of the worst football ever seen in this country.

Out of interest....How has that gone for you ?

Phil Lewis
415 Posted 07/04/2021 at 06:59:16
I don't recall Carlo ever enthusing in interviews he's given so far, about the prospect of Champions league football. In fact I've only ever heard him state the Europa league as a realistic target. I believe there is one simple reason for that hesitancy, which is his realisation that this squad is not good enough yet to compete at the highest level. Were we, by some unlikely streak of fortune to qualify for the Champions league, it would be like taking lambs to the slaughter. We would be annihilated, it could prove to be a massive embarrassment. He is being pragmatic and understands that he has to make do with what is at his disposal.
It's not a good sign. Because if my theory is true, it leads me to ask will Ancellotti have funds available close season to further strengthen the team? Or will those funds be reliant on transferring current players and removing others from the payroll?
Thomas Richards
416 Posted 07/04/2021 at 07:01:43
I made arrangements to meet Elizabeth Hurley a couple of tmes.
It never panned out.

What a martyr for the cause

David Greenwood
417 Posted 07/04/2021 at 07:49:27
My recollection of the LF forum incident with Ian is that he wasn't criticised for one comment on that particular afternoon.

It seemed to me that many posters had had enough of Ian's constant anti Carlo / Everton agenda, on almost every thread and every LF for many many months. Coupled with his disappearing act when we win, his failure to give any credit when we do win and his constant posting when we lose (which happens too often for all our liking).

Which is his right to do of course and he can choose to support Everton anyway he likes. Equally it's the right of other posters to point out to Ian that he is factually incorrect, and that's he's stating his opinion as fact then failing to address the factual inaccuracies when challenged.

Perhaps if he had done this he wouldn't have been told to fuck off on that particular day.

Great post Stan.

Eddie Dunn
418 Posted 07/04/2021 at 08:28:07
John D- loved the post, you sum up my feelings on the matter. I'd like to think Carlo can find the system and players to get results. I could tolerate defensive mundanity if we then accrued lots of lovely points and won the League. However I am sick of the media and some supporters who give Mr Ancelotti a little too much lee way when he has made recurring mistakes.
He can set-up a team to go to Leicester, Spurs and Anfield and get deserved victories. We also know how he can send out teams at home full of complacency, and lacking in tempo.
His selections have been baffling and his subs have led to defeats.
I think the main problem has been a lack of creativity. He even said postmatch v Palace that the strikers may have been "surprised" at having so mant chances!
Incredible! What an admission. We played okay and Gomes seemed to link nicely with James. DCL has been good in patches but he showed similar clumsiness for England hitting what should have been a tap-in with the back of his calf.
He has never been a technician like Sigurdsson, he will never possess the dribbling skills of Salah.
He is though, capable of 20 goals a season.
The game could have turned when Richarlison overran on the break when Gomes played him in. Then there was the freekick where Richie claimed the ball (surely there is a pecking order of James/Siggy/Digne? And where was Coleman?
Richarlison also made poor decisions on his two other chances, the lad is so greedy he doesn't look for DCL unless he has blown all his options.
Imagine any City player (bar Sterling) they would have been ready to square it to a mate for a tap-in.

The midfield struggled with Siggy on for Gomes, Davies misplaced passes too often but was tireless in his effort.
Carlo threw the game away subbing the effective Coleman and putting on Gbamin into the fray after 2 years on the sofa.
I would have kept James on if possible, and if he had to go I would have plonked King up top and withdrawn Richie into midfield.
So the lost points were down to the coach.

Mark Murphy
419 Posted 07/04/2021 at 08:38:27
Darren I'm not piling on here but your coming across as a very angry individual.
For the record.
I like Carlo and think he will get it right.
I hate the football we are playing recently.
I despair at the results BUT
Carlo has brought in 4 class players who have transformed the team when they have played which isn't often.
If we still play shite when Carlo has more of HIS players then I'll so run out of love and stop clapping.
Right now I'm being patient and trying to keep a lid on both my expectations and my emotions.
Martin Mason
420 Posted 07/04/2021 at 08:51:30
What is "Fuckin tedious in the extreme", is the constant whining from so called supporters of the club. These are people whose knowledge of the game, the club and the team are simplistic and superficial. What these people know about the game compared with the management and staff at the club wouldn't fill the back of a second class stamp. They offer no benefit to the club whatsoever and certainly this board would be far better off without their whining negativity and ignorance. We know without them where the fault lines in the team are and the key thing is that they are acting to rectify them as they patently are. Whining is absolutely classless and these people should concentrate more on the many very positive things that are happening at the club and support them. Patience and understanding are far better characteristics for a football fan than whining and bleating for immediate success when that is patently not on the table. Sack the manager? What an original solution, that always works doesn't it? The stupid really burns.
Brendan McLaughlin
421 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:05:02
Martin #420
What is "fucking tedious in the extreme" is for anyone familiar with ToffeeWeb not to expect a sharp divergence of views from both ends of the spectrum. However labelling other posters as "so called supporters" is beyond tedious in the extreme.
Martin Mason
422 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:13:26
Brendan, if it were a divergence of views that could be challenged that would be fine. It isn't. Look up the definition of supporter btw.
Si Cooper
423 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:15:45
Eddie (418), only one thing I can't get on board with in your post; ‘We also know how he can send out teams at home full of complacency, and lacking in tempo.'
I just don't see that could possibly be the manager's intention, which seems to be cause and effect confusion.
Maybe it's because he's not gesticulating on the sidelines or kicking the water bottles that people think the manager must be ‘on board' with the performance on the pitch. I tend to think he is as bemused as the rest of us with the slapstick performances but resigned that the players he has at his disposal (for now) just aren't consistently delivering what they are being trained to do. I'm sure he wants them relaxed (and thinks that if they are overly keyed up they'd probably be even worse) but doesn't expect them to be casual.
I may be wrong, I have no proof, but I am applying Occam's razor and think it would be bizarre if the manager's constant mantra was “We can just chill and everything will click into place during the game.”
The big question is whether it's Ancelotti that needs to buck up his ideas for those games we really should be doing better in or whether it is, by and large, the players?
Colin Glassar
424 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:29:08
There's more talk today of Mina leaving (for a measly £21m) but I'd prefer he stayed and Keane or Holgate left. Neither of them are vocal enough to be leaders. Neither of them are particularly tall or quick. Neither of them are progressive enough with the ball etc... If Carlo wants Koulibaly I'd offer up these two for sacrifice.

Thomas 416, forget Liz. Her son has first dibs on her, or so I've heard.

Stan Schofield
425 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:37:06
Darren@405: I wouldn't open any windows just yet, it's freezing outside. It's even been snowing, in April ffs! The weather is so unpredictable, and the fuckin weather forecast can't get it right beyond a few days, apparently because when they do their modelling on those fancy supercomputers, it can't cope with the inherent unpredictabilities of Nature.

I tell you what though, football is even more unpredictable, in the sense that although the weather can be predicted quite well over the next few days, we never know what will happen from one match to another or even during the course of a single match. We do know, however, that the course of a game is changed by the smallest things. For example, if van Dijk hadn't deliberately injured Rodriguez, the subsequent course of that derby would have been different, and in all likelihood van Dijk would not have been subsequently injured in the way he was. I fuckin love pointing this out to whining Reds, and they have no answers for it, apart from witty responses like “Fuck off, blue nose”.

Anyway, because of this unpredictability of football, I've never really been able to substantially comment on managerial team
selections, tactical choices, or in-game substitutions, apart from the occasional
irrational venting of anger if there's a bad result.

But I can see broad patterns during a season, as no doubt we all can. During this season I've seen patterns of good attacking football when we have the requisite players available to provide it, and relatively dour defensive football when such players are injured. I see this as the manager being flexible, and adapting our style according to circumstances that include a lack of strength in depth, the latter being something which the Club is no doubt trying to address, starting with four excellent signings under the current manager. The other, cruder, pattern I can see is our developing points tally, which seems to reflect some progress over most recent seasons.

Now, it's OK for people on here to criticise the manager and players as games are played, but it's quite another thing to constantly harp on about the same fuckin things to the point where other people can no longer be arsed reading it. That's tedium in the extreme. I've been guilty of repetition myself in the past, have been pulled up about it, and have drawn back, because when people see too much of it they might stop reading your posts fully, and start skipping through them, in which case there's less point in writing them.

And it's still fuckin cold outside.

Dave Abrahams
426 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:37:55
Thomas (416), funny enough I saw Lizzie outside the Legs of Man, on a Friday night, looking up London Road and down Lime Street like she was waiting for someone, she had a right cob on, you could have at least phoned the girl and let her know you couldn't make it, you've gone down in my estimation Thomas!!
Brent Stephens
427 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:53:58
Mwila #412 "Brent #336. Yep. Exactly. Personally invest :)"

Good man, Mwila!

Andrew Ellams
428 Posted 07/04/2021 at 09:59:08
Colin G, Mina will most likely be the player sold because he's probably the easiest to sell for the biggest fee out of those three.

If there really is a chance of Koulibaly arriving then surely he and Godfrey have to be the first choice partnership.

Andy Crooks
429 Posted 07/04/2021 at 10:11:51
You never know what you get on here. Wasn't expecting Liz Hurley but it has brightened the day up!!
Danny O’Neill
430 Posted 07/04/2021 at 10:24:25
Mentioned that in my post during my 2am stint with the dogs getting me up to standing in the freezing cold Colin when I read it. I concur with your meteorological assessment Stan!

All speculation and should be treated as such, but Koulibaly and selling Mina / a centre back isn't going away so I'm starting to think (hope) something could be in this one.

I too would rather keep Mina over Keane, but guess that keeping Keane gives us more option for if we want to sit deeper and defend around the edge of the box?

A Godfrey & Koulibaly partnership would be awesome.

Si Cooper
431 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:10:18
Just watched the second half at my leisure as I said I would.
My verdict is.... there has been some atrocious tosh written about this game / our overall performance in it. Yes, it is bitterly disappointing that we didn't win, but using the phrase ‘zombie football', making out we basically capitulated / were outplayed when Seamus and James were substituted, implying that if we had actually scored earlier we'd probably just have shut up shop, and a load of other wholly negative tripe I can't be bothered repeating, is just rank exaggeration.
We got a reminder that Godfrey is still a young player and not up to speed on some of the nuances of full back play. Michael Keane absolutely f@cked up for their goal but was generally fine.
Simply put, we were the team that should have put the game to bed both before and after their equaliser. Even one shot on target by the opposition is one too many in any game but we had many more far better chances (‘massive' chances as Neville put it) than them.
I expected Gbamin to be a quivering, wimpy wreck going by some assessments but he did okay too, all things considered. Richy won the ball fair and square and was then clearly brought down by Zaha for what MK seems to think was a pretty lucky decision for us.
I reiterate for those who can't give credit when it is due, that Gomes was probably our most positive and influential midfielder (barring James sweet finish) until he went off. James did up his game a bit when the midfield had to readjust, but was obviously knackered by it by the time he went off.
Seamus wasn't narked at getting subbed (although he'd obviously prefer to play every second of every game he is eligible for), he was narked at the ref giving him ‘hurry up and take the shortest route or you will be in trouble' instructions.
No need to throw in the towel / plead for the season to end right now based on that performance. Disappointing but not diabolical, a shame but not shambolic (or shameful).
Thomas Richards
432 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:18:37
Dave 426,

Liz was well out of order mate.
We went into Ma Egies for a drink.
She asked for a Strawberry Daiquiri. I told her the mild was good for her complexion and it all kicked off from there.

Stan Schofield
433 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:24:28
Si@431: Excellent, balanced, post.
Eddie Dunn
434 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:26:35
Si -watching the game again is a good idea. I too thought we played better than of late and created chances. As for my comment about Carlo sending them out several times full of complacency and lacking tempo - we have been slow out of the blocks regularly. Now I have no idea what Carlo says or doesn't say in the dressing room, but I expect him and his staff to have those lads fired-up from the word go.
Eddie Dunn
435 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:26:36
Si -watching the game again is a good idea. I too thought we played better than of late and created chances. As for my comment about Carlo sending them out several times full of complacency and lacking tempo - we have been slow out of the blocks regularly. Now I have no idea what Carlo says or doesn't say in the dressing room, but I expect him and his staff to have those lads fired-up from the word go.
Julian Exshaw
436 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:41:47
A lot of comments during or after matches are borne out of pure frustration and who can blame passionate fans for that? Young as well as veteran fans have been down this road many times with Everton. For me the jury is out on many issues surrounding this club whether it be coaches, players or staff. I'm happy to see how things work out until the end of the season before getting off my fence. What I don't necessarily have much faith in is how Carlo's 'good summer' of signings will change us sufficiently. This is a work in progress...a long one!
Alan J Thompson
437 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:43:55
Which of JD's groups do I fall in? Maybe in parts all three.

I had my doubts about Martinez as his previous team were relegated despite winning the Cup.
Koeman didn't seem to have had a great deal of managerial experience and I got the impression that his was a name bandied around at Highbury as a possible successor to Wenger.
Silva like Martinez got Hull relegated and like Koeman seemed to be remembered for an Olympiakos defeat of Arsenal.
However, I wanted all three to be successful, without it necessarily being immediate, as that would mean Everton would be, and this after Moyes who took over a train wreck but stayed too long and may have suffered the same financial backing that Wally Smith got.

So when Mr Ancelotti came in I looked on it as an experienced Manager with a winning pedigree that as well as being, hopefully, successful with Everton is also face saving for the Board.

However, none of this stops me being critical of some of what he or his team does in various games but also hold the view that he is trying to implement systems and a basis for improvement, and given what has passed in the last how many years, I'm now prepared to wait for 2 or 3 seasons and provided that some sort of improvement whether that is style and entertainment value or League position is seen. Jam tomorrow, or necessary preparation? Each probably to their own but remember, we all want the same outcome.

Ian Edwards
438 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:50:47
Mr Mason 420. Tosh. Were you saying the same during the Management of Koeman, Silva and Allardyce. Let me politely point out that the results at home are relegation standard and the performances are quite frankly pisspoor and dull.

If people on here don't hold Ancelotti to the same scrutiny and criticism that they held to previous Managers then they should consider themselves not Evertonians but as Carlo Fanboys.

Ian Edwards
439 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:55:48
David Greenwood 417.

Utter lies. Firstly I wasn't just told to fuck off.

Secondly, I have on many occasions commented after wins. You obviously don't see them or choose to ignore them as they don't fit your narrative.

Thirdly, I only comment on what I see on the field and if you can't bear to read the truth about Ancelotti's utterly dull defensive football then tough cheddar.

Derek Knox
440 Posted 07/04/2021 at 11:59:28
Colin @ 424, Funnily enough I've heard that about Mina too, Fiorentina and one of the Milans (AC I think) are desperate to get him in for CL assault next season. I think too I would prefer him to stay, although his treatment room attendance is higher than I would ideally like. I would also keep Keane, I think he has been brilliant since this season has kicked on. Both Keane and Mina are an added goal source too at set pieces.

I wouldn't shed too many tears if Holgate moved on, I think it would be good business, as we paid something like ٟM for him and in these crazy Market Fees could easily net us a 㿀M+ profit. Koulibaly would certainly (although he's 30 soon) be a great addition don't think he is injury prone and would certainly spice things up, and provide vigorous competition for a partner alongside him.

Steve Brown
441 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:00:05
Mina has done reasonably well this season, so I am surprised his name is being linked with a move away.

Equally, Mason and Ben Godfrey have potential for the future. Surely, our priorities are more on right back, an energetic and pacey midfielder plus a right winger.

Martin Mason
442 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:01:09
Edwards, no, we were then being managed by unproven nonentities and making tragic purchases one after the other. We were totally aimless. If you had a scoobie about the game you would also realise that home advantage has disappeared and most teams, like Everton are struggling badly at home. If you also had a clue about the game you would also understand why Everton are struggling at the moment but unfortunately you don't. Don't worry, we will hold Ancelotti to the same level of scrutiny but we won't do it by using this site as a platform for irrational whining. I criticise his decisions often but like you I'm in a position where, compared to him I know nothing about the game. Unlike you I appreciate the problems with the side and what solutions are needed, unlike you I don't have a single issue whine.
Martin Mason
443 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:05:46
Excellent post Si@431. My opinion of the game was that it was a good game that we should have won easily based on chances. Giving Gbamin some playing time was spot on. Palace played well and the result was fair. If I were to criticise it was the playing of a back 3 and wing backs but that is just my opinion not real criticism.
Ian Edwards
444 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:07:57
Mr Mason... I'll try to maintain politeness even though you seem to be ill mannered. I've been watching football for about 50 years. I'll stand by my well honed opinions and fact finding rather than your irrational support for a Manager sacked by his last three clubs who is now responsible for the dullest football seen at Goodison for decades.

But... as long as your happy...

Brent Stephens
445 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:11:13
Ian, as we all know, Live Forum is a room where you'll see over-the-top comments that, rightly, would get one banned for posting elsewhere on TW. I think it was to you I directed one of the expletives on Live Forum; it was language I never use on TW (or elsewhere); I apologised straight after on another forum; and as I remember it, you were magnanimous enough to accept the apology and we had a decent conversation afterwards. If it was you, Ian, I apologise again; out-of-character for me.
Steve Brown
446 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:11:36
Can we have more posts like @ 373 and @ 431? Balanced and interesting posts from posters people enjoy reading. Also, Derek @ 440.

Steve Brown
447 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:15:04
Ian @ 444, well-honed arguments - "Carlos fanboys"?

Dave Abrahams
448 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:19:48
Thomas (432), now you mention it her face did look a bit flushed but I put that down to her temper, anyway I calmed her down and took her over to The Goblin off Islington, there was a Karako night on there and good enough Lizzie got up and gave a couple of songs before we went into the bar and had a game of darts, so the night turned out okay, I walked down to Lime St. Station so she got her train, I'd warned her on the way down I wanted no funny business from her, you know what these show business people are like Thomas, but she was as good as gold and kept her hands to herself, not like that bleedin' Madonna one time, but that's another story I'll keep to myself, don't want the tabloids getting hold of it.
Paul Hewitt
449 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:22:29
Why do grown men argue over football. Haven't people got more important things to worry about. I couldnt care less if Johnathan tasker or anyone else doesn't like Ancelotti. It's just football that's all it is.
Ian Edwards
450 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:23:29
Brent

I have no problem with you at all and it's all forgotten as far as I'm concerned. I had far worse from other people.

My comment was because a poster seemed to make out I had just one person telling me to eff off.

Brent Stephens
451 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:26:46
Come on, Dave, you can't tease us with a passing reference to Madonna and say you'll keep that story to yourself. Otherwise people might not believe you ever met her.
Danny O’Neill
452 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:29:25
Agree with the priorities Steve Brown and centre back arguably isn't one. I just think if a chance to improve to that level in a position presents itself, you have to do it.

30 is around the peak age for a centre back, so you're getting ready made proven quality for another 3 seasons to complement potential like Godfrey.

We may well have played some dour stuff under Ancelotti at times this season but the worse I've seen? No. I think back to the late 90s / early 2000s. What a terrible time to watch Everton.

Tony Everan
453 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:34:34
Was it Madonna or Mad Donna ? There's often a few of the latter hanging around the Lime Street area.
Dave Abrahams
454 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:37:59
Brent (451)Brent I'd prefer people believe that I never met that woman, what a night I had with her, she wouldn't believe I was a good Catholic boy who didn't do those naughty things, took all my strength to fight her off, eh you sly bastard Brent you got that out of me didn't you, kidded me there!!
Thomas Richards
455 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:38:57
Brent,

Its true.
The bastard robbed her off me.
Getting along great with her in the Blob shop one night when he sauntered over a give her the smile and that was that.
I ended up with Bella Emberg

Dave Abrahams
456 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:41:12
Tony (453). How do you know? Come on Tony out with it.
Brent Stephens
457 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:41:16
For a moment, Dave, I thought you were telling porkies! Give her my regards next time you see her (you couldn't fix me up with her, could you?).
Brent Stephens
458 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:44:42
For those of you who've never met Dave Abrahams and Thomas Richards...
Link
Dave Abrahams
459 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:46:20
Thomas (455), Thomas it wasn't The Blob shop it was Tess Riley's, saved you from a fate worse than death and I bet you had a good laugh with Bella!!
David Greenwood
460 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:53:34
Ian, I've reread my post and as ever you're talking balls.

I've seen one post of yours (after the game v the RS) that was congratulatory in tone. And that's it. Maybe I've missed the others. To be honest I don't bother with TW as much as I did so I may well have. It might have some to do with just about any thread being hijacked by the same two or three anti Carlo/Everton posters. All the time.

Paul Hewitt has it right, there's more important things to worry about.


Dave Abrahams
461 Posted 07/04/2021 at 12:53:34
Brent (458), Oh come on Brent anyone can see those two are only pretending, thought you was cleverer than that Brent.
Ian Edwards
462 Posted 07/04/2021 at 13:04:33
David 460. You can't expect everyone to not reference the home results and performances since Christmas. The garden isn't rosy.

If we play well at Brighton I'll say so. Please look out for my post.

Matthew Williams
463 Posted 07/04/2021 at 13:16:03
Maybe if your a pro or anti Carlo Blue,the real litmus test is what neutral supports think about our style of play?.

Myself...woeful,even T.N.S play the game better than us!.

Reuvy Havin
464 Posted 07/04/2021 at 13:36:34
I have defended Sigurdsson at times, but there were definitely times in which he well underperformed. However, I don't think this is the case here, nor in most other of his poor games this season - most of these have come when he played in central midfield, and he simply cannot do that well. It's not an underperformance when there should be no expectation to start with.

He absoutely goes missing when he is played in midfield. But he is basically in damage control mode from the off. His biggest priority is not making a fool of himself with the ball, because he doesn't have much confidence that he can move dynamically with the ball and progress it quickly from back to front, nor run back to defend if he gives it away in the trying. And his lack of confidence for thiese two things is precisely on the mark - for he is not good at either of those two things, and if he tried them, he may well cause more damage then good. Particularly because of his lack of leg speed in recovery once the ball is lost.

What I cannot understand, and what therefore infuriates me so much, is why Ancelotti still chooses to use him in midfield (not always, but often). The problem here, in my opinion, is Ancelotti. Not Sigurdsson.

Sigurdsson has actually done well this year - in the aspects of the game which relate to a no.10 - and that is how he should be looked at, because that is what - and all - that he is. Even this week, he had two decent shots on goal, the second og which, on many occasions, would have gone in. He also played a ball into DCL for a great chance on goal which DCL didn't convert.

That is why I think it's a no brainer to keep Sigurdsson, unless they happen to find one or perhaps even two bright young talents at the no.10 role (or as more attacking midfielders in a midfield 4, or as flexible forwards in a front 3; whichever). But it's also a no brainer that Ancelotti has just got to stop playing him in the midfield. Never again. And not a false 9 either. He's terrible at that too.
Only as a 10 or similar.

Whether he should play the 10 more often and James drifting in from the right flank, or whether James should play the 10 and Sigurdsson be used as a sub, is another matter. But it lies between those two choices only. (As an aside, if Sigurdsson and James play simultaneously, which I personally think is best, Gomes cannot play then too; the two central midfielders must be very mobile to compensate for the slowness of James and Sigurdsson).

Matthew Williams
465 Posted 07/04/2021 at 13:47:08
Remember last season's 1-0 win at Norwich?,a poor game shown live on the Pick channel,I counted the amount of back-passes we made in 94 minutes of play...27!.

That's not my Blues,I swear half of our squad are playing with the Carlo handbrake on and the rest couldn't care less and see their role as more of a fucking hobbie,when does this shite end?.

Before we know it,30 years will have passed without a Cup to cheer,am lucky,I saw some great teams playing dream football back the 80s,but what have younger Blues got to look forward to...more souless,gutless,backwards football?.

Thomas Richards
466 Posted 07/04/2021 at 13:54:28
Bella got me in a headlock Dave.
I escaped through a window in her flat 3 days later.
Two stone I lost in 3 days
Martin Mason
467 Posted 07/04/2021 at 14:42:03
Edwards@444, I've never said that I "support" Ancelotti whatever that may mean. I just have no reason, as of yet, to criticise him in any major way. He hasn't been here long, he inherited an over large, undertalented squad that no manager on the planet could have turned round quickly and he (and the club) is/are patently making major efforts to do so now. No rational fan could criticise him significantly at this point in the project and I trust that, if he is shown to lack the competence to achieve the aims of the project, the club will resolve that.
Martin Mason
468 Posted 07/04/2021 at 14:43:03
Jesse Lingard at £30 million? yes please.
Tony Abrahams
469 Posted 07/04/2021 at 14:51:34
It makes sense to watch the game again, but it's something I've very rarely done in my adult years because Everton and a lack of real entertainment, isn't a new phenomenon.

Si, the voice of reason mate, I liked it when you talk about Ancellotti trying to keep his players calm, and that's another reason why I think Michael Keane, has got to be replaced, because he might be able to pass a ball sometimes, but he's not the best under pressure, and I could see his nerves were gone at times the other night, well before he got sucked in for Palace's goal.

Danny O’Neill
470 Posted 07/04/2021 at 15:19:50
I don't watch games back other than match of the day highlights, which don't always give the true picture. I go with my gut instinct on what I've seen. Caveat, I'm not as good judging Everton live as watching other matches, as the inevitable emotion gets in the way. I tend to go with what I see at the time, however right or wrong that is in others' views and opinions (not that mine is right).

Tony, we've discussed Keane with many others on here. There is no doubt in his improvement this season, but my turn to repeat myself. The moment we want to move higher up the pitch and play a higher line, his fragilities get exposed. At the age of 28, I don't see those being coached out of him as he's hitting peak period for a centre back where they won't really learn or change. He is what he is. You can't change pace but unfortunately his speed of mind and concentration hasn't changed.

Christy Ring
471 Posted 07/04/2021 at 15:21:47
Darren@409 I have to laugh at your comment, it's always the same group of people who shout down Carlo's critics. Isn't it always the same group of people who constantly criticise Carlo?
Regarding the Palace game, I thought Gomes was playing very well until his injury, any of his critics like to make a comment?
Kieran Kinsella
472 Posted 07/04/2021 at 15:29:29
Christy

I was baffled too. I'm unconvinced by Gomes but his set up for Rich was quality and I thought he played pretty well in that particular game

Kieran Kinsella
473 Posted 07/04/2021 at 15:36:33
Tony/Danny

I remember rewatching the 1989 FA Cup final about 9 times. Not because I am a masochist but because something seemed off as in I felt like we'd won. Like in that film The Forgotten where the aliens change history and wipe everyone's minds but that one woman has an inkling something is off and things didn't go down as everyone remembers. I may need to rewatch that game again, I sense in the force that McCall actually scored a third goal before the aliens meddled with it.

Tony Abrahams
474 Posted 07/04/2021 at 15:45:39
When Davies, stupidly gave the ball away to Zaha, the other night Danny, I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and this was started by Michael Keane falling over and then jumping back up all panicked, when there was no real danger at all.

It's hard to teach calmness under pressure imo, you can learn people to relax, but then they usually show that same lack of calmness every time they are under pressure, and then it can transmit through the team, but this is something you will be much more aware of than I am Danny, and is why the army must have been a dangerous place at times mate, having to put your trust in people who were not the most capable?

Billy Bradshaw
475 Posted 07/04/2021 at 15:49:17
Dave Abrahams @448 re karaoke at the Goblin pub,I'm not sure how to send a link but this might get you to a good video taken in the Goblin,you may have seen it but try this, Party Night sing along in the Goblin pub early 80s www.facebook.com/watch.
Tony Abrahams
476 Posted 07/04/2021 at 15:56:16
I'd watch football all day when I was younger Kieran, over and over again, and I'll never forget David Pleat's words about Everton still being in the game when they went behind, because he said we were to good a side, not to be?

Oh sorry no, that was 1986, and another horrible day suffered at the hands of our neighbours. I was convinced we were going to win in 1989, with my warped logic being that Liverpool had already hurt me enough, and we were going to get them back by winning the cup, they so desperately wanted, for all the fans who had died at Hillsborough.

When McCall scored in the last minute, I thought the Lord was finally going to get one over on the devil, and had an out of body experience. A miracle I thought? Until that bastard Rush, punished us once again. We will get them one day though, even if I've got to send my praises to Allah!

Kieran Kinsella
477 Posted 07/04/2021 at 16:07:41
Tony

When the day of judgement finally arrives and we even things up. It's going to be epic. It will be about 400 -0 to Everton with 4 RS sent off, a sink hole will open up and swallow the Kop, Graeme Souness will spontaneously combust and from the flames a mythical liver bird will emerge that flies over Liverpool blowing blue flames from its mouth and destroying every piece of RS memorabilia.

Dale Self
478 Posted 07/04/2021 at 16:36:39
Reading that makes me feel like I've taken a tab of Blue Astral windowpane. It's a good trip.
Ian Edwards
479 Posted 07/04/2021 at 16:54:24
467. If people can't give common courtesy then I won't converse with them.
Kieran Kinsella
480 Posted 07/04/2021 at 17:09:52
Reuvy 464

You bring up some good points. I'd agree on keeping Sig. With other areas in need of improvement we don't have the cash to find someone younger and better than him. We may as well keep him as an alternate to James or reshuffle how we line up to accommodate both.

As far as why Ancelotti has used him in midfield. . . I agree he is a liability there but in other ways so are Davies and Gomez. I think that's the crux of the matter. All three of them have major flaws so he shuffles the pack hoping one of them can overcome his flaws and make a lasting impact. Unfortunately, the chosen one may have one good game then revert to type.

Danny O’Neill
481 Posted 07/04/2021 at 17:31:56
Keep talking Ian. All views welcome.

Kieran, that 89 final opens wounds I don't want to open as it's another debate, but the day we felt we had to accept being willing losers because of the very sad and unfortunate circumstances. I do not wish to be controversial by any means and can reflect now, but on the day as an 18 year old Evertonian, that's how I felt.

Tony, I could talk all night but won't get dramatic or bore you and the ToffeeWeb gang! But yes, the ability to remain calm under pressure is either a knack or can be taught; an ability to, often in a split second, make a decision based on what is in front of you is key to differentiating between a really good player and an okay player as I'm sure you are better placed than me. Speed of mind, stay composed. For some it comes natural, others need time to learn it. Sadly at 28, I think Michael Keane is beyond having it in his locker or being taught it.

You can relate it to leadership. On the football pitch, that is where I personally believe centre backs and defensive midfielders should take the lead regardless of whether they wear the armband. Keane is too placid and too often, too startled or lost. Centre backs need to be leaders, not followers.

A much used phrase is lead from the front. I would challenge that; the correct term is lead by example as you lead often lead from the rear. Forwards are like the Infantry; follow orders and go for the jugular, win the game with all of the support behind them. The orchestrators of the battle are the defenders and midfielders who can see the bigger picture of what is in front of them. If they panic and lose sight, our wall is breached and the enemy do a pincer movement on us.

Hope I kept that mostly football related! But yes, across all levels, remaining calm under pressure is vital to not losing your head and making rash decisions in key moments that cost the team and the result.

Dale Self
482 Posted 07/04/2021 at 17:34:01
Ooh I got a name drop. Thanks Kieran and I guess Ian.
Bobby Mallon
483 Posted 07/04/2021 at 17:54:04
Si cooper 398, brilliant analysis of the game so far and of the people who have stuck the knife in.
John Keating
484 Posted 07/04/2021 at 18:05:53
Dave
The Goblin was at the top of our street and rarely went as it was too close to SFX
The Clock was almost next door and closer to the Friary so went there
Some good laughs in the Garden Lane and Coffees too !
Never saw Liz in any of them though?
Dale Self
485 Posted 07/04/2021 at 18:22:27
First off, credit to Si and others who are trying to keep it constructive. On the mentality issue, I agree that Carlo has improved the mindset but I am beginning to believe that he has overestimated the steel in this squad for his 'Italian solution' in the last 15 minutes. We obviously need a possession midfielder or a ball winner/foul specialist to take pressure off at least a couple of times in the closeout. Sticking to that strategy has been the cause of points lost from winning positions too often not to have questions about it.
Martin Mason
486 Posted 07/04/2021 at 18:23:10
Edwards@479. I don't really see that you have any ability to discuss things with people just an agenda to force your opinion. As such, I see that the lack of civility towards you is just a reasonable reaction to this.
Darren Hind
487 Posted 07/04/2021 at 18:33:10
Ian Edwards

Good innings.

Dale Self
488 Posted 07/04/2021 at 18:40:28
I rather liked Martin's side on that. just sayin.
Roger Helm
489 Posted 07/04/2021 at 18:54:57
All I would ask of Carlo's critics is, are we in a better or worse place than when he arrived? Are his signings better or worse than those of the last few years?

I don't think Cloughie, SAF and Kendall combined could have done much with the squad he inherited. As long as we are improving I am happy to be patient.

Colin Glassar
490 Posted 07/04/2021 at 18:59:57
All out for nowt, Darren? 🤣🤣
Rob Halligan
491 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:03:49
So the Carlo Ancelotti debate rumbles on!!

I read somewhere recently (wasn't on here so everyone is safe and not going to get beaten up) that Carlo had little or next to no faith in some players, and basically has had to play the hand he was dealt when he first came to us.

Ian Edwards keeps harping on about the fact that Carlo has been "in charge for three transfer windows" and do you know what, Ian's right: Carlo has been in charge for three transfer windows, I can't dispute that...

Unfortunately (for Ian anyway) the first one started about 10 days after he came, and was over before Carlo's kettle had boiled for his first cup of Cappuccino. So we really can't count that one, allied to the fact that Carlo didn't have a clue about the squad he had inherited, so how he was supposed to know what positions needed improving on?

As the second half of season 2019-20 rolled on, it became obvious to Carlo the most important area which needed fixing was the midfield. This was duly done last summer, along with the signing of Ben Godfrey, who by the way has been absolutely outstanding and is nailed on for all the Player of the Season awards come the end of the season.

We all recognise the fact that the back four now needs improvement, certainly with pace, and this is something else I read somewhere that Carlo also recognises, hence the need for "dropping deep". Carlo must have thought last summer (transfer window #2 he's been in charge of) that the back four would be good enough for the season, and therefore concentrated on the midfield.

As has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread, apart from the first half-dozen games or so, of this season, the three midfield players we signed have never played together due to injury. Was it just a coincidence that we got off to a flier when all three were in the team? I think not!

As for transfer window #3, that he's been in charge of, generally there are never any stand-out transfers in January. No clubs will sell their star striker or defender while they are battling for trophies or to avoid relegation, and I believe that the January transfer window just gone was the quietest on record, so why should we have been any different? We got Josh King, who by the looks of it, Carlo is not too keen on, and I believe he is being released at the end of this season.

I'll admit, I fall into John Daley's "category three", whatever it was. When Carlo first came to us, I said that everywhere he's been he's inherited a squad full of internationals, mostly world class, players. His squads only needed a little tweak to improve it. Coming to us, his squad didn't need a little tweak, it needed a full-blown major overhaul!! This wasn't going to be done in one window. It will need a couple more "Summer transfer windows" to get the squad he wants.

Certain posters don't like Carlo, fair enough, but managers don't win what he's won without having some knowledge of the game. What he knows about football could fill several volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannia; what us on here know could just about fill the back of a postage stamp. Carlo makes mistakes, every manager does, and I've been baffled by some of his substitutions, but mistakes doesn't make him a bad manager.

So come on, lads, let's all get together and back the club, the manager and the new stadium – Jonathan Tasker, take note! If Carlo fails, then fair enough, I will hold my hands up and admit it... but, for fuck's sake, give him the time to turn things around because, believe me, if he fails and goes, then forever more we will just languish in the Premier League, happy to just make the numbers up.

Danny O’Neill
492 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:13:21
And don't forget Roger, Howard Kendall was over 30 months in without transfer window restrictions when the pack was baying for blood and throwing their leaflets around Goodison having witnessed what some viewed as terrible football and embarrassing results.

15 months and some were judging after 4.

Dave Williams
493 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:16:56
Ten to play and if we win the games in hand we go equal 4th. Not a bad performance to me when you look at the level of our substitutes when the first choice players are injured or rested.

Okay, the entertainment value ain't that great but that is usually the last thing to come when building a side. Carlo is doing a decent job – yes, he makes strange selections and decisions but who is perfect?

Next season is his big test as he should then have a squad he trusts.

Kieran Kinsella
494 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:16:59
Rob

I agree on Godfrey for player of the season. Calvert-Lewin has petered out, James has missed a fair number of games. Godfrey though has shown quality, commitment, and consistency.

Maybe I am slightly biased as I really knew very little about him beforehand so my expectations were lower than for say James but, regardless, he is my player of the season -- unless someone does something magical in the next 9 games.

Martin Mason
495 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:17:13
I'd say Golden Duck, Colin.

Sorry that I may have come across as rude, I just can't hack people coming on here just to spout contrarian negative pish when the club is floating in a river (Blue) of positivity.

Thomas Richards
496 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:19:46
Rob,

I can't add anything to that.

Tony Abrahams
497 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:22:32
Do for me Rob, with that last paragraph hopefully being enough to end this thread!
Kieran Kinsella
498 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:23:04
Danny 492

That's a damn good point. I'd forgotten about the pre-window days when we could sign Wayne Clarke in March to get us over the line, or the RS would sign the likes of David Speedie similarly late in the day. Managers no longer have that get out of jail free option.

Colin Glassar
499 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:33:07
Bravo Rob, another killer post.
Jack Ledwidge
500 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:38:04
There's been a lot of debate about Carlo. I've said he needs another 2 transfer windows.

Chelsea are 4 points clear of us and we've a game in hand. Just look at their subs bench tonight v Porto. I won't say anymore.

Thomas Richards
501 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:38:55
Thankfully the positive posters outweigh the negative posters by around twenty to one on ToffeeWeb. That is probably a fair reflection of Everton fans in general, that is in my experience. They will soon come round when Ancelotti improves us again in summer.
Brian Wilkinson
502 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:42:08
I agree with some other posters, we are too nice and do not seem to have a leader on the pitch, or someone who will get into the refs face like other teams,

Although it does nark me, when you see other players shouting at the ref and getting decisions, it seems ok for other players to constantly go down, as soon as Richarlison goes down, we get nothing, because all the pundits say the same about Richarlison
, but you never see them berate the constant divers, in the penalty box, the pundits even encourage players to go down, if they feel a hand on their shoulder.

That is something that we as a football club have to deal with, we need to grow a pair, and challange these decisions or comments.

It does not matter what Everton achieve, there will always be a world wide media, that will either put it down to other teams not performing as well, that even now, they see us as no hopers for the top 4, that was before our game on Monday.

We can go on and get 4th place, we will not get any help, or credit, it will be down to empty stadiums, other teams having injuries, but they will not put it down to Everton.

If we are going to at least have a go, then as a club, we have to get tougher, do not sit back when we are well on top, keep at the opponents and try and put the game out of sight, most of all though, those players have to fight for their team mates, and have no passengers on the pitch.

We have posters with different opinions, we all bleed Blue, but we all want the same thing, a full blooded effort from the team, I can accept being outclassed on the pitch, what I cannot accept is defeat, before we have even kicked a ball, we need those players to believe in themselves and team mates, not be afraid to try something on the pitch, not be afraid to make a mistake trying something, but most of all getting stuck into the opponents, and not give them room to move or stroll through the motions.

Martin Mason
503 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:46:38
Rob @491,

Excellent post but you have to realise that the people you aim this at won't take a blind bit of notice of anything that contradicts their narrative. They are incapable of rational discussion – fact.

Darren Hind
504 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:50:23
Jam tomorrow?

Woohoo! That's a load off.

Good job the ground is shut because the faithful would have roundly booed these pathetic home performances. The fella selling cushions would be the only happy person in the house.

No self-proclaimed positives at Goodison, they are a tough crowd. They happy clap for nobody.

Tony Abrahams
505 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:50:33
I said Rob should end the thread, but that last paragraph@481, made me think of Howard Kendall, and two games in particular.

Bayern Munich, just gone a goal down and with Everton now needing two to win, the manager said to his players, just keep doing what you're doing and the Gwladys st will suck the ball into the back of the net - great management.

Liverpool, after being the much better team for a hour, we conceded two kick goals, and Kendall rashly brought off the culprit whose costly mistake had gifted them an equaliser, instead of remaining calm, knowing he had the better team?

Dave Abrahams
506 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:51:35
Billy (475), thanks for that Billy, hadn't seen that one before, good few years ago that, some lovely old mates and girls on that, sadly many have passed away, I wasn't on it, never got the invite!! Two of mates on there, still going, well known amateur footballers and good singers as well, Alec ( Bobby Darrin) Sweeney and Jimmy ( Cobby) McCardle. We had some great nights in there especially Saturday nights, got the first bus home on Sunday morning.

John Keating, all good pubs you mention especially The Clock, great singers on there including Cy Tucker, happy days, but no stay behinds in The Clock.!!

Thomas Richards
507 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:54:58
Darren,

Did you expect jam today?

We have more points now (with 9 games to play) than in five of the last seven seasons.

Big improvement... no?

Mike Gaynes
508 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:55:41
Darren #414, my apologies for insulting you by pointing out that, as always, you were insulting people.

To which you responded, of course, with more insults.

I do note you have emphasized again the complete unimportance of others' comments -- by citing the fancifully lighthearted Tinkerbell jest I made five years ago. I'm struck by the fact that you seem to have a memory like a heffalump for gibes you claim to ignore. But of course I will take you at your word that they don't matter to you... lest I be further portrayed as insultingly insulting your insults.

Martin Mason
509 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:57:11
Any thoughts on Gbamin when he came on?
Tony Abrahams
510 Posted 07/04/2021 at 19:59:04
Come on Darren, you know more about Everton, than most, and there's no way our home form would have been so poor if we were allowed inside the ground mate. I think we've only won four home games and two of them was when we had a couple of thousand fans inside Goodison.

(Even though the phoneys in the media said Everton will probably do better without fans at Goodison?)

Our away form is brilliant though, but again with opposing fans backing the home team, I'm not sure Everton would have been so successful on the road?

Darren Hind
511 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:01:53
Mike,

It wasn't an insult. I just couldn't believe a grown man would come on a football website and talk about Tinkerbell... that's why I remember it so vividly. I found it even harder to believe you guys who were blasting the trumpets as Koeman and Walsh signed duff after duff.

I'm older and wiser now.

Tony

Fair enough we will never know if the games would have been different if there was a crowd in, but you have to accept that Goodison has been an angry place after performances that were nowhere near as bad as the ones we have witnessed in the past 15 months.

Billy Bradshaw
512 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:04:57
Had an idea you would recognise Cobby and Alex when I posted Dave, good times.
Thomas Richards
513 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:07:48
If you're older and wiser now; it would have been interesting to see your posts when you were wild and carefree.
Tony Abrahams
514 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:07:50
What could we expect from Gbamin, Martin? except Just to hope he gets an injury free run now, and becomes an important player for us in the future. He's big and strong, looks like he can get about the pitch well, and these are all fine attributes for the modern game.

Did anyone else see Rodriguez roll his arms towards the Everton bench, a couple of minutes before he came off, and although Duncan Ferguson never gave him a bad look when he eventually got on the bench, I had a feeling that Duncan was possibly thinking, that we could have done with 90 minutes out of him, such was his influence on the game?

Dave Abrahams
515 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:12:11
Christy (471), yes Gomes was pressing really and put two good passes through, it's when you see him try to defend and tackle and see opposition players going past him like he isn't there you see how slow he is and not very good at all in that compartment of his game, practically every game.

You could also say the same about James, now he had to be in the running for MOTM along with Colman but when you see the other team attacking in the middle of the park then go past him, you notice how poor he is, can't even chase them, looks very old and he puts a strain on the other centre midfielders same as Gomes, now you can all tell me you come to see his class and passing ability and I'll agree with every one of you but he is playing as a midfielder and he becomes a total liability in that part of his game, so how do you fit him in where he is less of an handicap.

Kieran Kinsella
516 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:13:34
Difference between pub football banter and online is that patients from Broadmoor can't interject in pub conversations.
Mike Gaynes
517 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:18:07
Darren, I never blasted a single trumpet for any Walsh signing, and was cautious to skeptical about most of them. I'm sure you know that, because you remember my long-ago posts a whole lot better than I do.

But thanks for your reassurance that you haven't been insulting. Not sure how I could have misconstrued your amiability so badly.

But accusing me of being a grown man? That hurts.

Barry Williams
518 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:27:50
With 9 games of the season left, the injuries we have had, the fact that it is Ancelotti's first full season in charge, a truncated pre-season, inheriting a mess of a squad, a pandemic etc etc. it might be wise for pro/anti Ancelotti comments to be put on hold to see what the next 9 games (almost a quarter of a season) bring about.

We all have opinions, but I think they can certainly be morphed by what will transpire until the end of the season. For example Calvert-Lewin has 14 league goals, if he scores no more, then he will have been deemed a little bit of a let down. If he plays the next 9 games, scores 4 more goals, his ratio per game will be better than 2 in 1 - he will be applauded as a proficient striker. The margins are thin! I learnt that from Martinez!

Si Cooper - several comments.

I agree with a lot of what you have said, especially with regards to Gomes. I am not Gomes's biggest fan, even pre-injury, in terms of what he brings to the team. However, recently I have found myself reassessing him as he seems to spot a really good pass, is more mobile, commits less silly fouls and seems to want the ball and links up the play well. I don't think he is a major problem, at least not in the most recent half a dozen games or so. Playing him, Sigurdsson and James in the same team from the start though is not wise in my highly expert opinion!!!!!

As for the subs v Palace: Coleman had 3 games in 6 days for Ireland - he is an aging wingback, had a great game, but it was understandable that he was brought off. James, well he has just come back after many weeks out, is a bit fragile, massively important to Everton, and needs to be managed well within the game time. Sigurdsson was a forced substitution and he had stepped up to the plate a lot more in recent months. Davies was carrying a knock from the internationals by the looks of things, but because of injuries, he needed to play. Did Ancelotti get it wrong? Maybe. What were the options? King for James and a change of formation? Holgate to right back to cover Godfrey? Nkounkou for James, swap Richarlison to the other flank, move Digne into left mf? All required a lot of tactical re-tinkerinking. If re-tintkering isn't a word, well it should be with a photo of Ancelotti and Ranieri next to it in the dictionary.

The next 9 games will redefine people's opinion me thinks . but I could be wrong!

Play nice boys!


Martin Mason
519 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:28:44
Mike, Darren doesn't understand the massive risk involved in buying a player and he doesn't risk a cent of his own money. Why does he feel he has a say?
Barry Rathbone
520 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:37:12
It's on a knife edge with Carlo the derby win and a handful of games at season start balance the usual whimpering cup exits, formula football and likeable demeanour. More worrying is the approach of yet another summer window requiring major surgery. James, Doucouré and Allen all have questions about either age, fitness or ability and beyond Digne the rest are mid table spuds (yes, Richarlison included)

I like Carlo and boasting about his cv but if beyond the top 6 at season's end what non-emotive evidence is there to show progress?

Thomas Richards
521 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:41:58
Points total?
Barry Rathbone
522 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:46:36
Thomas 521

Quite right.

With the obvious caveat it reflects a significantly improved league finish otherwise it would be just another anomaly in a season full of 'em.

Kieran Kinsella
523 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:46:36
Barry

Calvert-Lewin needs a few more because right now his goal per game ratio is behind lots of former Everton players from recent times, including:

Andy Johnson
Tomasz Radsinski
Brian McBride
Lacina Traore
Yakubu
Lukaku
Louis Saha
Wayne Clarke

Thomas Richards
524 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:51:14
Indeed Barry.

I posted earlier. We have passed the total points gained in 5 of the last 7 seasons already. With 9 games of the season left.

Undeniable progress.

Kieran Kinsella
525 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:53:11
Barry 520

"usual whimpering cup exits" against who was that again? Shrewsbury? Norwich City reserves? No, it was against the two top teams in the country. It was also at the quarter final stage of both competitions, which for a team aspiring to be top 6 is where you'd expect Everton to get, assuming the top four make the final four.

Barry Rathbone
526 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:54:43
Kieran 523,

I think Calvert-Lewin is the least of our worries overall he does just enough to warrant a spot and, as long as players about him are capable of playing him in, he will do ok without ever being top drawer. The issue is only James has that ability but unfortunately he has a body made of styrofoam.

Barry Rathbone
527 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:57:53
Thomas 524,

The season hasn't ended so you cannot judge by our league position whether it an anomaly or not. Certainly not "undeniable progress".

Barry Williams
528 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:57:54
Kieran Kinsella - 523

Wasn't really the main point of my post Kieran. But Traore? didn't he play 1 game? Like Wakenshaw if my memory serves me right!

I am not defending Calvert-Lewin here, I was making a point in a whole different context to what you are I think; aren't you judging the above on their whole Everton careers, whilst Calvert-Lewin's is still in progress? Is what you are saying minutes or appearance based?

Clarke was excellent, saw him live a lot; he had some amazing supply lines. Yakubu, very very underrated striker that we bought at his peak and cost 13.5 million I think. Lukaku, one of the best strikers for poaching in the world.

Andy Johnson, Tomasz Radsinski, Brian McBride, didn't play a huge amount of games for Everton, and weren't some of them penalty takers?

Saha, he was excellent, but again, was not learning his craft when he came to Everton.

My point with using Calvert-Lewin was how opinions can change massively with just a few changes of luck/results either way. If he doesn't score another goal all season, but we win all the games and he plays a role ala Bent, then great.

It wasn't really my point Kieran.

Danny Broderick
529 Posted 07/04/2021 at 20:58:11
Some are suggesting we have a weakness in defence or that our defence needs improving. This is way down the priority list in my opinion. Our full backs are good and Godfrey and Holgate are decent back up. Mina and Keane are solid centre halves, and Godfrey looks like he will develop into a cracking centre half.

The main weakness we have is still in midfield, despite Carlo addressing this last summer. In my opinion, we look like a decent team when we have Allan and Doucoure in midfield. Unfortunately for us, Allan missed a big chunk of the first half of the season, and Doucoure is now out in the back half of the season. While we are still playing the likes of Gomes, Sigurdsson and Bernard in midfield, we cannot expect top performances and dominating the games. These 3 have mastered the art of disappearing. We've also had Tom Davies in midfield, who has improved a lot in my opinion. He should be learning alongside Allan and Doucoure though, not being left trying to hold the hold midfield together alongside the invisible men.

Richarlison and DCL had off nights against Palace. They both should have scored at least 2. I don't actually think Richarlison has had a very good season. We still need an experienced striker who the manager trusts to play when these 2 are not doing it.

The pleasing thing is the unity behind Carlo in the fan base. We can all see the job he has on his hands sorting out the midfield and attack. We still have to move on the likes of Besic and Tosun!

It's clear there are players Carlo doesn't trust. He has a core group of players he uses, and even some of them are sub standard. We have one of the biggest summers we've ever had coming up - the mad thing is that I have said that every year the last few years. But we still have a load of crap players earning top dollar on our books that we can't shift. They are leaving bit by bit now. It's important we recruit right. It's no good Brands buying players that Carlo doesn't want, which appears to be the case with Josh King.

I'm expecting us to buy a striker and at least 3 midfielders in the summer (including wide players). Maybe 2 midfielders if Gbamin can offer something, it's far too early to judge him though.

I only hope the manager's subs will improve with a better pool of players, as Carlo got the balance wrong with his subs the other night.

Barry Rathbone
530 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:00:53
Kieran 525

Even your reply backs up the "whimpering exit" theme. They are perceived to be better than us so it's expected (and therefore acceptable) that we fold.

That's Everton going back decades... ie "usual".

Thomas Richards
531 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:03:57
Not having that, Barry.

An increase in points total (with almost a quarter of a season to go) from five of the last seven seasons' finishing total, can not be seen as anything other than improving.

Kieran Kinsella
532 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:07:00
Barry Williams

I was messing about and sneaking Traore on there to see if you noticed lol but I understood your post and you make a valid point.

Barry Rathbone

In that respect, any cup exit would be whimpering? If losing to the best two teams is whimpering where does that leave our exits against the likes of wonderful Wigan. And as for Man City being "perceived" to be better than us, do you have a different perception? To be clear, I didn't "expect" to lose, I thought it would be very difficult but I rationalized there were ways in which we might be able to win. We didn't. I am not happy about that outcome but I wouldn't say it was a whimpering exit. I'd say we lost despite our best efforts against a better side. The United game? Yeah that was more of a whimpering affair,

Barry Williams
533 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:07:36
Two Barrys... one bottle of wine in the system. Who are you referring to, chaps!!!!????
Barry Williams
534 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:09:21
Kieran Kinsella- 532

No worries!

Barry Rathbone
535 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:11:28
Thomas, 531

Not really if the standards of some teams have declined and we're still at a steady level of mediocrity, we will pick up more points. The same explanation applies to a higher points total not resulting in a significantly higher finish as other clubs nail the dross as well.

You must see the possibility of not improving just because we have more points, yes?

Barry Rathbone
536 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:14:10
Kieran 532

Not so.

If we went out all guns blazing, we would not go out "whimpering". No one complains about Moyes's exit against Fiorentina.

Mike Oates
537 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:16:20
If there's one phrase I keep hearing, it is “We've got better players than them, we should be winning games like these!” Well, let's get it straight: we haven't got better players than most clubs in the Premier League… in fact, we have far worse players than the rest of the Top 10 teams, and that's where we will finish – about 10th!!!

We have no pace in the team, other than Godfrey and Calvert-Lewin, we have not one player who can run at defences, take people on, get round the back, create opportunities… we haven't (other than Rodriquez) got players who can work between the lines, can actually play one-touch football, can actually trap and move with the ball, can actually press non-stop.

We have defenders who can defend but can't pass the ball forward, who can't move the ball quickly without error, who can't cushion a header to a teammate. We have midfielders who turn like an oil tanker, who have to foul all the time to stop the opposition, who have no idea of finding space, who have no idea of joining in an attack, getting forward to support the attackers, and who think of actually getting past our attackers and getting into the box. In fact, we must be the slowest, most static, least producing football team, and most boring team to watch at the moment in the Top 10.

Yet we continually think we are one or two games away from a European place. It's a joke, a real joke.

My only major worry is why? – Is it due to poor buys over the years? Is it due to Ancelotti's poor tactics, team selections, or (to be fair) a complete lack of a competitive squad for him to manage? What's up with our training?

We can't press, players can't last games, we keep getting training injuries, we can't develop a team who can actually control a game. Instead, we defend and rely on counter-attack, set-pieces or opposition errors – as Hodgson said last night, Crystal Palace played the football.

If you recall, we've been totally outplayed by Fulham, West Ham, Burnley, Crystal Palace, Leeds, and even West Brom. Not to mention a roasting in passing from Man City and Chelsea.

Carlo, it's just not good enough; football-wise it's no better than we were under Allardyce and that's a disgrace. We were at home last night, 1-0 up and you take off an attacking wing-back in Coleman for a defender in Godfrey, you took off James and put on a defensive midfielder in Gbamin – where the hell was King? Push for the 2nd goal, not sit back and invite pressure on us.

Thomas Richards
538 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:18:37
No
Barry Rathbone
539 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:20:42
Mike 537

It's long been an issue of our fans over egging the pud about how good our players are and as you rightly say we're mid table because mostly we have mid table players.

Kieran Kinsella
540 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:22:31
Barry 535

What you say is true but it's intangible. You can't prove teams have declined or improved relative to other seasons based purely on performance unless you can somehow stop a certain game at half time and transmat one team back in time to the same fixture the year before and vice versa with the other team then see how it plays out. Although even then it would be imprecise as factors like injuries picked up in the first half, weather conditions or the referee could influence the outcome. Therefore it's not something you can establish

Thomas Richards
541 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:25:13
👍
Tony Abrahams
542 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:26:04
Of course we will never know Darren, but my bigger point is how important Goodison has been to a lot of poor Everton sides, over the years, and this season has made me think more than ever, that our fans have probably helped keep us in the top division down the years.

Dale Self
543 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:26:13
It would seem that the evaluation of performance might be associated with emotive evidence. I thought we were looking for non-emotive ways to evaluate Carlo.
Barry Rathbone
544 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:27:08
Kieran 540

I'm not saying it is true I was explaining to Thomas how it is possible to increase your points total but still remain in the same moribund position as before. Ergo his claim doesn't hold water (might do at the end of the season mind)

Tony Abrahams
545 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:27:41
I think anyone who went to Fiorentina, would disagree with that Barry R.
Barry Rathbone
546 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:31:08
Tony 545

First time I've ever heard someone claim we went out with a whimper against Fiorentina

Danny O’Neill
547 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:32:29
Danny B from Danny O.

Massively repeating myself on this thread let alone for the last few weeks.

Totally agree with you, defence is not a priority in the summer in comparison to other positions.

But if there is truth and potential in the Koulibaly rumours, we totally have to go for that as it is a big upgrade even though the four centre backs we have are good.

We can and will do other business, but as satisfied as we are with our 4 CBs right now, they can be improved on and if we have a chance to do that we should in my opinion.

Paul Birmingham
548 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:36:29
This site is becoming like a version of Shakespeares - Ceaser, or the Liberators War, post Ceaser getting bumped off.

Let's judge this Everton season on the football facts at the end of the season. Theres x9 games to go, any thing can happen, plenty to go for and in view the final league position, doesn't lie.

Gonna be interesting, but this thread is just a warm up, it seems, for a blockbuster end of season thread.

May be the website gatekeepers can set a vote on a TW after the last league game to get TWrs feedback.

Now to beat Brighton.

Rob Halligan
549 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:37:20
Barry, what Tony means is that In the away leg against Fiorentina, when it was only 1-0 we should have just shut up shop and settled for the 1-0 defeat. For some reason, Moyes decided to throw Andy Johnson on in search of an equaliser, and we ultimately ended up losing 2-0. We definitely didn't go out on a whimper in the home leg, far from it.
Colin Glassar
550 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:40:51
I see former premier league greats like choupo-Motong and Enders Herrera are playing in the CL quarter final. Any chance that either of these two teams could give Iwobi a go?
Lenny Jameson
551 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:41:24
Mr. Abraham's. Youre so right. We went to Fiorentina and that's the worst I've ever felt a football match. Moyes's tactics were a disgrace. Even the Fiorentina fans expected a battle but we just lay down and never attempted to attack. People who moan about Ancelotti on here must forget that abject display. And we had a decent side as was proven in the second leg.
536. " People don't complain about
Moyes " Well I fuckin do!
Thomas Richards
552 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:43:23
Barry,

You may be interested in looking at our finishing positions in the seasons I spoke about.

Barry Rathbone
553 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:43:47
Rob 549

As a result of the performance in toto ie both games - the memory is not one of a cup exit at a whimper. Evertonians recall it with pride not something that can be said about this seasons usual capitulations.

Barry Rathbone
554 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:46:57
Thomas 552

I will of course, at the end of the season.

Pointless doing it now if we end up with a higher points total yet finish 11th. You do get that don't you?

Rob Halligan
555 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:49:30
Barry, nobody is saying We went out against Fiorentina on a whimper. Moyes got his tactics horribly wrong in the away leg, that's all. He should have just settled for the 1-0 defeat.
Barry Rathbone
556 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:50:37
Rob 555

Sorry, Tony appeared to be saying just that.

Brent Stephens
557 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:51:03
Spot on, Rob, re those tactics.
Brent Stephens
558 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:53:45
I understood what Tony meant - he referred to anybody going to Fiorentina, so it was clear to me.
Lenny Jameson
559 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:54:34
Mr Rathbone 553. I take absolutely no pride whatsoever in that defeat. The memory of the first leg was far too fresh and hasn't got much better in the years since. At half time in the first game I said,"Don't worry lads, it won't be this bad in the second half." And I was right. It was worse!
You've chosen the wrong example for people who went to that abomination.
Danny Broderick
560 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:55:10
Danny O,

Sorry mate, but I don't think Koulibaly should be in our sights. As good as he undoubtedly is, he would likely cost over £60 million and be earning £200k per week. That might be our whole transfer budget! If he was the final piece of the jigsaw, I could see it. But if we buy him, he'd probably be playing behind Iwobi, Gomes and Sigurdsson! His impact would be limited.

We are well stocked at centre back. Any money we have needs to be spent on a top CM, a right winger and an experienced striker in my opinion. A look at our subs bench shows that Carlo isn't happy with our options in midfield and attack! He's been naming 2 keepers. That can't go on!

Thomas Richards
561 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:56:00
No.
Rob Halligan
562 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:56:17
Barry, looking at Tony's post, I can see were you're coming from, but I'm pretty certain Tony meant what I've said. Will need him to clarify that though.
Colin Glassar
563 Posted 07/04/2021 at 21:59:16
You think Fiorentina was bad what about Bucharest and Benfica?
Barry Rathbone
564 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:00:42
Lenny 551

You must not be aware of my posting history condemning Moyes nontheless being objective I accept the complete tie is thought of as going out on our shields not a whimpering exit.

ps if you quote me again make sure you don't edit the quote to put up a fallacious argument

Tony Abrahams
565 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:02:45
Goodison bounced Barry, but we absolutely shit ourselves in Italy, against a team that Glasgow Rangers then knocked out.

I thought Moyes built decent teams towards the end of his time at Goodison, but this was his best team imo, and they fucked the job in Italy, against a team that we were much better than.

You remember the second leg Barry, fine it was a great night, with one of its best atmosphere's until Yakubu missed his penalty, but the first leg was an absolute disgrace, and I just thought I'd point that out for those who just remember the gallant losers

Barry Rathbone
566 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:04:21
Rob 562

In the context of whimpering exits from cup ties it never occurred to me he would be commenting about effectively a part of the tie. Would anyone pile in on the Bayern game based on a part when we went one nil down? Of course not.

Barry Rathbone
567 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:05:26
Tony 565

See my reply to Rob at 566

Lenny Jameson
568 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:06:21
Mr Rathbone
There was no fallacious argument. The stops at the end of my quote means you're whole quote should be taken into context.
Kieran Kinsella
569 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:08:57
Tony 565

A Rangers team managed by that cowardly, negative, busted flush Walter Smith, to use someone's vernacular

Barry Rathbone
570 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:09:24
Lenny 568

No they don't - make sure you quote the entire piece next time the idea of not criticising Moyes compared to not criticising the exit are completely different things. Don't do it again

Tony Abrahams
571 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:10:36
Barry I've seen your reply to Rob, and think what a great example you chose to back up your argument considering that Everton turned it around against Bayern, and “won”

I didn't pile in Barry, I just stated facts. Ask anyone who was at Fiorentina, do they think Everton lost the tie with a pathetic display in Italy, and I think the resounding answer would be without a fucking doubt

Barry Rathbone
572 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:12:40
Tony

My issue is why you brought up part of a cup tie when the topic was going out of cup ties with a whimper - at that stage we weren't out!!

Tony Abrahams
573 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:15:23
I take your point Barry, but the only reason we were gallant losers, is because of how timid we were in the first leg.
Paul Birmingham
574 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:17:05
Fiorentina, away, I've still got one of the match balls, in mint condition, but it was a tactical failing and for me caused long term psychological impact to that Everton team, of the time, and transcended over the following years.

Moyses talked a good win, but never delivered when it really counted in Europe, in my view.


Barry Rathbone
575 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:18:36
Tony

You may have a point but we had to "play" to deserve the accolades that followed. The entire point is we didn't go out of either cup under Carlo in that manner we "whimpered" as per,

Lenny Jameson
576 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:18:47
570
Yes they do. Basic English language knowledge would tell you that. But anyway I couldn't be arsed writing the whole quote, I was too angry at being told how proud I should be after getting beat.
Don't do it again
Tony Abrahams
577 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:24:38
I remember getting one of those kicking in balls, off one of the Everton staff at Villarreal, Paul, and giving it to this little kid, whose Dad, had helped me jib in.

I bumped into them in Barcelona the night after the game, and the little kid was looking at me like I was Jesus, and it's that camaraderie that I think we are all missing right now!

Tony Abrahams
578 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:28:05
I disagree Barry, because I thought we battled like our lives depended on it, to try and stay in the game against City, and where you say we whimpered, I'd say that they just had to much ability for us on the night.
Barry Rathbone
579 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:28:05
Lenny 576

I will pull you up every time you misquote and infer I have written something I haven't.

Because you "couldn't be arsed" is no excuse for misrepresentation nor did anyone tell you to be proud of getting beat that is another creation of your imagination.

Barry Rathbone
580 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:32:23
Tony 578

City were too good but we walked onto the pitch with that attitude emblazoned on our mugs but at least you didn't try to defend the Utd surrenders

Kieran Kinsella
581 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:36:15
Lenny

There is always going to be a minor grumble but just be happy the only negatives were the performance and the result.

Tony Abrahams
582 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:39:55
At least?
Paul Birmingham
583 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:44:41
Nice one Tony, it's those moments that make watching Everton special, and hopefully soon, - next season, there will be special memories made by the success of the first team. Success being the criteria which means winning a trophy, and could be taken as qualification for Europe. This is a good point of debate for the TWrs.

Character and belief is needed now as the final phase of this season unravels.

I'm still optimistic as based on this seasons form, Everton can still pull the rabbit out of the hat, but it's gonna be some ask, and we need some grit in midfield, and as many have stated.

Tom Davies must start but he needs some back up in terms of energy and movement, Monday night, Palace effectively had the freedom of the Bullens Road in the second half.

Brighton will have done their home work, but hopefully so have Everton.

Does any one know if Allan, will be available for Brighton?

Thank you.

Brent Stephens
584 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:46:35
"Does any one know if Allan, will be available for Brighton?"

Has he been transferred, Paul?!

Hopefully fit. He does make a difference.

Paul Birmingham
585 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:52:29
Thanks Brent, let's hope he's available.

It's gone stum, and it would be good to know.


Brent Stephens
586 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:53:58
Paul, I have a sense that Carlo keeps the opposition guessing.
Lenny Jameson
587 Posted 07/04/2021 at 22:56:07
Mr Kinsella
Good job it was only that! The second leg could never make up for the first game. As exciting as it was, there was always the horror of that first performance.
That was the beginning of the end of Moyes for me. Florentine weren't even very good and he had the players terrified.
Plus it was cold, raining and the bars were shut!
Definitely not one for "My favorite european away trips " page.
Paul Birmingham
588 Posted 07/04/2021 at 23:09:03
That's a good point, Brent, and also to Evertonians..

To be or not to be, but Everton, it's time for the squad to galvanise and step up and believe.


Dale Self
589 Posted 07/04/2021 at 23:36:34
Good spirit Paul, keep it going.
Derek Thomas
590 Posted 07/04/2021 at 00:30:14
I'm not here to apportion blame...its all subjective and in the eye of the beholder how they see the respective degrees of guilt of - 'all the usual suspects, from Moshiri down'
(With a few intangibles like luck, attitude, mental and physical fitness, etc, thrown in for good measure.)

Somebody said; good players have the odd average game - average players have the odd good game.

This odd good game is what kids people, its what they remember...then you add in the other side of an average, that average players will also have shight games as well

If anybody thinks that 'The Real Everton' will stand up (please stand up, please stand up) for the last 9 games, well good for them.

I hope they do too, my heart says so and I still get up at 3 in the morning to watch just in case...but my head - like the computer says...No - and I won't be troubling my online betting provider with as much as one penny just on the off chance either.

Come the end of the season, even if we stretch on tip toe, holding a broom, we won't be able brush the soles of the feet of 4th place.

We won't average the 2pts per game that might say - well even if it was too late, they gave it a 'go'.
We'll do well to break 60pts...and with our poor GD, even finish 7th.

A different somebody said - Show me a 'Gallant Loser' and I'll show you a loser.

Don Alexander
591 Posted 07/04/2021 at 00:34:34
This thread has latterly focussed on Moyes' "achievements" in Europe (with Fiorentina in particular) and I welcome that. We've been embarrassingly woeful in Europe throughout the 21st century. Worse, we were embarrassingly woeful to a world-wide audience, players and agents taking real note, hence the inflated contracts we've had to pay for legions of players that no other Champions League aspirants were evidently interested in.

And guess what, those expensive players we've signed have in almost every case evidently turned up at Finch Farm, seen what goes on there, scratched their heads in bewilderment, and almost immediately dismissed the thought of putting a shift in to actually try to achieve progress for their new club, very comfortable as they newly were, training-ground "injuries" being especially welcome to them.

Hardly anybody leaves us to obtain a better contract and there's no evidence to suggest they're wrong to leech onto us as they're best ever paying option for a "not-quite-winner" player. We now call them "dead-wood", amid a forest in my opinion.

My regret, needless to say, is that the canker of deadwood has been twenty/thirty years ago introduced into the very roots of our club courtesy of we-all-know-who. (Please, I'd just love someone to ask "who"?).

So, never mind the surgery Brands and Ancelotti have to try to achieve in the field of transfers right now. Maybe someone in the club, with an allegedly large financial investment up to now, should first try to exterminate the Japanese knot-weed that's killed us, and new signings, as potential winners for the duration of the Premier League.

Just saying - again.

Kieran Kinsella
592 Posted 08/04/2021 at 00:41:10
Don

You're right. Just think of the money Schneiderlin was on before he retired to Nice, or Mirallas, even freaking back up CB Heitinga said he had to give up the private jet life after Everton.

Paul Birmingham
593 Posted 08/04/2021 at 01:11:54
Dale, cheers, the Battle of this Season, is just warming up.

UTFT!

“What's Our Name?”

Steve Brown
594 Posted 08/04/2021 at 01:19:01
Talking of Europe..

Link

Derek Thomas
595 Posted 08/04/2021 at 01:34:32
Steve @ 594; Priceless mate, pure comedy gold, a coffee down the nose moment.
Kieran Kinsella
596 Posted 08/04/2021 at 01:58:16
Steve

Haha that was the best post on this thread mate

Si Cooper
597 Posted 08/04/2021 at 02:35:57
Dave, I don't want to alienate someone who obviously has a very useful little black book (well, pre the turn of the millennia at any rate), but I just can't go along with “it's when you see him try to defend and tackle and see opposition players going past him like he isn't there you see how slow he is and not very good at all in that compartment of his game, practically every game.” I just don't think that is a fair, up to date, summation and I think with a decent pre season Gomes could very well be that bit quicker and stronger next season.

Barry R, seems like you want to eat your cake and still have it. You want sole rights to defining ‘whimpering' and object to one leg of a cup tie being able to out weigh the other, when that is what you want for your point of view.

Kieran Kinsella
598 Posted 08/04/2021 at 04:16:34
Derek Thomas

Sad as it is (if ya know yer history) 7th would be pretty good with this squad. Fourth is beyond us at this point. I think Moyes will nick it though I wouldn't be hugely surprised if Chelsea fuck him over and do a Di Matteo by winning the CL. Either way, that leaves us looking at 6 and below which means us, the RS, Spurs, Villa and Arsenal battling for 6th through 10th. I'll be upset if we end up below Villa or Arse (meaning 8th) but as muppets like Koeman and Sam got 8th I feel we need to go one better, so hopefully we can pip Jose or Jurgen and nick 7th. With that having been said. If you look at our subs bench of late: Broadhead, John, Tryer versus theirs eg Oxade, Firmino, Milner or Winks, Lucas, Bale we are the underdogs. So if we finish above either of those two (my least favorite teams) and nick 7th I'll take it. Yes Moyes and Brenda outperformed to make us all look worst but shit happens.

Mike Gaynes
599 Posted 08/04/2021 at 05:14:01
Watched it three times, Steve. Can't sit up straight.
Derek Thomas
600 Posted 08/04/2021 at 05:58:40
Kieran @ 598; you're probably right. It could be that if our recent fortunes are looked at as a concave bell-curve – similar to this 'U'. Then, to all intents, Allardyce's 8th place on the way down will not be much different to watch (ie, pretty poor most times) than Ancelotti 8th on the way up... hopefully.

From Martinez's 2nd season, the needle on the 'total gashness' guage... apart from the odd decent aberration... has been hard against the little peg that stops its going off the scale.

In fact, if you average out our final league positions since 1900 (which I did one day when bored shitless recovering from Illness), it comes to around 8th or 9th.

Barry Rathbone
601 Posted 08/04/2021 at 08:26:25
Si @597,

"You want sole rights to defining ‘whimpering' and object to one leg of a cup tie being able to outweigh the other."

The Fiorentina "cup tie" was the sum total of the 2 games and the general view is, over that sum total, we went out like lions. But, if you think we exited with a whimper, that is your prerogative.

I might add the critique of the Italian leg appears to be Moyes's tactics in going for it (what a mad idea – Moyes going for it!) – hardly a definition of a whimpering loss.

Minority views like yours are interesting for many reasons.

Stephen Brown
602 Posted 08/04/2021 at 08:29:11
On Andre Gomes, I've been willing him to do really well but I'm afraid he's become a complete passenger! Never scores, never assists, defensive liability, often a red card waiting to happen!

He can look pretty and does some decent passes but the unfortunate reality is he doesn't really offer much to a team trying to get to the top!

Bobby Mallon
603 Posted 08/04/2021 at 08:37:00
Barry Rathbone,

We don't go out of cup ties with a whimper – we just get beat.

Barry Rathbone
604 Posted 08/04/2021 at 08:45:14
Bobby 603

Well, yes - we obviously get beat.

But surely you can discern going down fighting to going out in whimpering ignominy as per the Wigan qtr final for example.

Maybe you can't!!

Si Cooper
605 Posted 08/04/2021 at 08:48:37
Actually, Barry, I wasn't offering an opinion on the Fiorentina tie one way or the other, it was just my take on your to and fro with a couple of others where you did try to dismiss their opinions whilst insisting yours was unassailable.

How much proof can you offer that your view is the ‘general' one? If there is none, then it is just two competing opinions, but only one person seemed to think he was the only one qualified to judge the merits for both sides.

Bit like you assuming I have an ‘interesting' minority view when I haven't actually offered one. My post is about your ‘debating style' – not either of the competing opinions other people have expressed.

Steve Brown
606 Posted 08/04/2021 at 08:53:04
Mike @599, know we are not meant to post on the redshite. But I just couldn't resist it! Best clip of 2021 so far.
Tony Abrahams
607 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:05:25
Si, some of Barry's posts are like this mate. It's obviously his opinion but, when he said we walked on the pitch against Man City with it emblazoned onto our mugs that they were too good for us, I honestly think that this would be a minority view.

I enjoyed one thing about Everton's performance that night (even though we lost), and that was how focused the players actually looked for once. I'm sure Guardiola also mentioned that they could see how focused Everton were even during the warm-up, which usually means (Barry) he will come back with it being no good in the warm-up, and that's something I couldn't even argue back with!

Si Cooper
608 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:06:11
Stephen Brown (602), pretty much every negative thing you claim is questionable (and the exclamation marks really don't help!!!!).
Actually the only debatable points are ‘defensive liability' and exactly how much he does / may yet offer to the team. The rest is simply not true (hyperbole at best, lies at worst).

When he was down on Monday, waiting for the substitution to be organised, did you notice how many of the senior players were interacting with him. Looks to me like he is treated as quite a central figure. They certainly weren't indifferent to him having to go off.

Thomas Richards
609 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:23:22
Si.

Debating styles differ on TW, that's what makes it the site it is. Some like to put their case mildly, some choose to put their case vigorously. All have the same weight.

The ones that seek, and get, attention are in the minority thankfully. Surely you can see that?

Dave Abrahams
610 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:25:54
Si (597),

Yes, Gomes has played better in the last three or four games, no doubt about it for me, and he started well the other night. Good to see but, even when he plays well, there is still that defensive liability about him, sleeping on the ball. Even in close tackles, he doesn't go in with any aggression... maybe because of the serious injury he received v Spurs? Was he like this before the injury? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I do know he had as many good games as he has now: not many.

Yes, I noticed a few Everton players going over to him when he was injured. I thought it was out of concern because of his previous injury; was it in the same area? Overall I don't think Andre is the player who is going to make the midfield position his own, but I wouldn't mind being proved wrong there.

Si, I don't have any black book about Everton's history but I have a decent memory which helps sometimes.

Si Cooper
611 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:32:25
Dave, little black book with names, phone numbers, etc, etc, regarding A-list female celebrities. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink...
Andy Crooks
612 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:39:38
Steve @594, that is wonderful. Laughed till I cried.
Martin Mason
613 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:41:20
And then there's the biggest of all fan myths: The whole team weren't up for it, weren't bothered, weren't trying, went into the game knowing we'd get beat.

You couldn't make it up if you were writing a comedy book.

Stan Schofield
614 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:42:19
Barry @604:

This point you make about going down with a whimper. I think this happens only when players deliberately down tools, perhaps because of some politics with the management. Then they don't put their best effort in.

Apart from such situations, which I believe are rare, I've never discerned any Everton team going down with a whimper. I've seen many very bad performances, where the team just isn't gelling, and in such cases players just cannot get the overall machine running well – no matter how much effort is expended.

And then I've seen a lack of belief, because things are just not working. But to me, such things are not ‘going down with a whimper'.

George McKane
615 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:42:31
There is a wonderful Czech film, banned by The Communists, directed by Jiri Menzel, about artists and poets being put to work in a scrapyard/factory: Larks On A String. It's about how those seemingly opposites eventually get on well. Worth a watch – it's fabulous.
Si Cooper
616 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:43:57
Regarding Gomes, Dave, I haven't made my mind up about him yet either. It just narks me that some apparently haven't seen any improvement.

I do think he is probably more highly regarded by the Everton hierarchy (and his teammates) than is generally perceived though. It may all hinge on who is available in the summer but, at the moment, I'd be very surprised if he were allowed to leave.

As for him being a defensive liability, I guess it really depends on how he is used and who else plays alongside him to make his necessary contribution negligible, and therefore less of a factor.

Stan Schofield
617 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:46:32
George @615:

I suppose if you put people who like to debate, to hard work in a scrap yard factory, they might end up physically too tired to bother about trying to debate anything.

George McKane
618 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:50:21
Maybe, Stan... but us gang, we could gas forever, and so we should.

Just a light comment by me but a truly beautiful film, worth seeing.

Martin Mason
619 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:54:03
Si @616,

I believe that Gomes is a very good player who works very hard and has many good skills. It looks as though he has a limit though and will never be able to play at the top level. Who knows though, played in the right position in our best side, he could be an asset. Possibly just too weak in the creating and scoring department? He seems to be a genuine likeable bloke though and he certainly does his best.

Barry Rathbone
620 Posted 08/04/2021 at 09:57:00
Si @605,

In terms of "proof", I doubt anyone would seriously contend the Fiorentina defeat was of the whimpering kind. Rob Haligan summarises the situation excellently.

"Barry, nobody is saying we went out against Fiorentina on a whimper. Moyes got his tactics horribly wrong in the away leg, that's all. He should have just settled for the 1-0 defeat."

So, unless you take issue with such thoughts, I have no idea why a "style" that is correct should raise your hackles. Quite an unusual philosophy to be honest.

Tony Abrahams
621 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:02:24
Larks on a string sounds much better than narks on the internet, George, so hopefully I'm going to find this film on my little black box!
Robert Tressell
622 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:03:51
Talk of Lukaku, Saha and Yakubu reminds me just how good our first 11 got at times under Moyes and Martinez. How many of our current players would be a nailed on starter in their best sides?

Honestly, the answer might be none of them.

Barry Rathbone
623 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:11:56
Stan @614

"This point you make about going down with a whimper. I think this happens only when players deliberately down tools."

I disagree; playing for Everton (well any togger team) should involve one basic ingredient beyond ability – determination. Competing at your very best every time you don the shirt should be a given; to not do so is "whimpering" in my book.

It happens too often at this club and not just against the perceived elite.

Si Cooper
624 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:21:08
Barry, your style is only ‘correct' in your opinion. To me it veers from sneering contempt to a slippery passive aggression. Like I've said, I don't have a dog in the fight but I found your posts on the ‘whimpering' debate really off-putting and snide. You definitely haven't made any convincing arguments, just a linear repetition of your point of view. Rob's assumption about what others were articulating isn't proof of anything at all, except you'll seize on anything you think supports you whilst off-handedly dismissing anything that doesn't.
Martin Mason
625 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:24:04
Barry @623,

Just remember that the Everton players or team have ever deliberately done this is just your unsubstantiated opinion and patent nonsense. That you keep braying it so loud and long is unjustified.

Eddie Dunn
626 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:31:21
Martin, he has vision and is technically sound. I don't know if it's just that injury that is compromising his level but he is just a little slow.
Of course, if surrounded by busy bees, he could still shine. Imagine if he played for Man City with all of those hard-working athletes around him, I bet he would be lauded.
Si Cooper
627 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:34:01
‘Competing at your very best every time you don the shirt should be a given; to not do so is "whimpering" in my book'

So your book ain't a dictionary or an encyclopaedia then, Barry? No doubt it's some sort of mystical tome that only the ‘enlightened' are capable of comprehending.

Martin Mason
628 Posted 08/04/2021 at 10:39:01
Si, it's a mental weakness that some have in confusing unsubstantiated personal opinion as fact.
Derek Knox
629 Posted 08/04/2021 at 11:22:32
George @ 615, thanks for the 'heads up' on Larks on a String, I'll Czech it out! 🤦‍♂️😜
Thomas Richards
630 Posted 08/04/2021 at 11:25:36
adjective
making a series of low, feeble sounds expressive of fear, pain, or unhappiness.
"a whimpering child"
noun
the making of low, feeble sounds expressive of fear, pain, or unhappiness.
"the whimpering of frightened children"


Cant remember seeing that on a football pitch.
Anywhere.

Danny O’Neill
631 Posted 08/04/2021 at 11:37:57
Way off current topic and original but not sure were else to ask.

Anyone have any detail on a supposed additional new Usmanov backed sponsorship deal I'm hearing about?

Dave Abrahams
632 Posted 08/04/2021 at 11:39:28
Si (611), Oh that little black book? I sold it to the magazine “ Confidential” got a good price for it.

Regarding Gomes, let's hope his injury isn't a serious one because with injuries, especially in central midfield, he will be needed. By his liability I meant his lack of defending ability puts more onus on the other midfielders, more so when Allan and Doucoure are missing.

Paul Hewitt
633 Posted 08/04/2021 at 11:59:00
Robert@623. A fit Rodriguez would get in easily.
Stephen Brown
634 Posted 08/04/2021 at 12:08:15
Si @608

I'm not sure what's questionable about Gomes lack of goals and assists. This is factual surely!

I want him to be a success as much as anyone but the facts are he's not contributing much. That's not just based on the facts that's also based on me watching the games.

Andy Crooks
635 Posted 08/04/2021 at 12:11:43
Martin @613, in all my time watching Everton I have probably seen perhaps three or four instances of players who did not genuinely seem to be trying at all. Even that may be incorrect.
Some players look lethargic but who really knows what is going on there.
It is easy to forget(I do it more than most) that any player may be at any time weighed down with troubles unknown to us. We can argue that £50k a week should enable them to set that aside but not everyone can do that.
I do, however, believe that most teams or individuals in most teams sometimes do into a game expecting to lose. This is not about effort it is about confidence. This belief is something that comes with winning habits and is nurtured by great coaches. I still believe, on reflection, that we have a coach who can do this, what is the alternative anyway? It is, though, hard going.
What I do not get, though, is what looks like the lack of anger after defeat. The lack of hurting, the mateiness before and after the match. Even if it doesn't matter I expect a highly paid player to at least feign that it does.
Robert Tressell
636 Posted 08/04/2021 at 12:49:20
That's true, Paul. And I suppose he's as fit as Saha ever was so it's fair to include him.

Still, 1 out of 11 is a pretty poor return which might explain why we're likely to finish below where the best Moyes and Martinez teams finished in the table.

Brian Wilkinson
637 Posted 08/04/2021 at 13:37:25
Quite possibly Robert, interesting at the same time that Coleman is one of the last remaining survivors of their realms, also one of the few players that still has fight and effort in him.

Now the problem arises on players bought after their watch, players who have outstayed the previous 4 Managers, who are still here now, some out onloan, some still making the starting 11 or the bench, those on huge wages that we have to wait for their contracts wind down, before we can ship them out.

Best we can get is them going out each season on loan, to help with the wages.

Is anyone the least suprised when Tosun went out on loan to Turkey, they would actually stump up a minimal amount to sign him, when they know full well, Everton will loan him out again, then they get him for free next year.

It is not the huge amounts we wasted on the transfer fees, that is the problem, but the over inflated wages we put those players on, that we now struggle to sell.

Since Moshiri took over, let's go back to the last 2 to 3 seasons, when was the last time we received decent money for a player leaving, or a half decent amount, or even any money at all for a sold player.

We have a strong 11 when all fully fit, couple of tweaks needed and additions added.

Once those injuries kick in, we are left with players who have been here over the last 4 Managers, those same players who have year after year,had no fight in their bellies.

Before we get rid of our next Manager, we need to have a damn good look at the squad, and start trimming and getting rid of those very players, that have been bought, and got 4 different Managers the sack.

Godfrey, Allan, Doucoure and possibly James, is a very good start to the new look Everton under our current Manager.

Barry Rathbone
638 Posted 08/04/2021 at 13:53:22
Si Cooper, 624 and 627

"Barry, your style is only ‘correct' in your opinion"

Patently wrong we have identified my "style" (your word btw but more on that later) as equating the Fiorentina game to a "gallant" loss (h/t Tony Abrahams) and Rob Halligan has posted in agreement so irrefutably it is not just "my opinion".

Your diversion to "style" to try and explain your incorrect inference that memory of the Fiorentina cup tie does not come down to the sum of the 2 games has now been exposed by your emotive invective which is realyy the "style" you are blustering about. Bbut it does bring us nicely back to my original post.

" if beyond the top 6 at season's end what non-emotive evidence is there to show progress?"

Thomas Richards
639 Posted 08/04/2021 at 14:02:49
Ppppp pick up a penguin
Mick Conalty
640 Posted 08/04/2021 at 14:11:20
Brian #637
Those signings you refer to made by Ancelotti. At least to of them are Sick Notes
Kieran Kinsella
641 Posted 08/04/2021 at 14:14:10
Andy 613

3? I'm guessing Nyarko, Lescott v Arsenal and Schneiderlin has to be in there

Dan Nulty
642 Posted 08/04/2021 at 14:19:45
Danny 631, new sponsorship deal is with my.games. I think it is a short term deal (not seen figures mentioned) to promote some of their mobile games. My.games is apparently part owned by USM holdings.

Anything we can do to get more sponsorship in will help our no doubt awful FFP position. Can't imagine this will be a groundbreaking amount of money though. They had a few advertising boards around the ground on Monday I think.

Andy Crooks
643 Posted 08/04/2021 at 14:21:52
Kieran, Nyarko, and Lescott in that game for sure. I think Schneiderlin was one of those who looked lethargic but was at times paralysed by low confidence( well that's my theory).
Some players,and he was one, didn't appear to do too much but were drenched in sweat. Siggy is one of those. Derek Knox has a very interesting theory about that re. Siggy.
Martin Mason
644 Posted 08/04/2021 at 14:28:04
Barry@638 Do you believe that there can't be any progress unless results show a certain outcome? If so I beg to disagree. There is massive progress being made at the club and at an individual player level. I believe that the league position at the end of the season is barely relevant.
Andrew Ellams
645 Posted 08/04/2021 at 14:31:43
I think any football supporter would have to be a bit naive to believe that nobody in their team has ever downed tools, it's human nature and possibly even more so in the modern world of overpaid spoilt professional footballers.

Alex Nyarko is right at the top of the list for Everton and there is no way the team as a whole was giving it their max for Marco Silva at the end of his time in charge.

Martin Mason
646 Posted 08/04/2021 at 15:01:49
Andre@645 Correct, there have been very rare and mainly unproven individual cases of it happening but whole teams? Not at this level. Out of form yes, injured yes, pressured by external events yes, total mismanagement possibly but for a team or groups of players deliberately?
Stan Schofield
647 Posted 08/04/2021 at 15:11:05
Barry@623: It's simply your assumption and assertion that the players are not putting in their best efforts. I know of no evidence for it, and it's certainly not something that has ever struck me watching Everton. In fact, the first inkling of it to me, after over 50 years of watching Everton, was from such assumptions and assertions on ToffeeWeb, which I joined about 5 years ago. I suppose if an assertion is repeated often enough, it can become a mantra to some people.
Ray Robinson
648 Posted 08/04/2021 at 15:30:24
Stan, I would agree. Paralysed as a result of abuse from the crowd or loss of form, not wanting to seek out the ball - maybe, but lack of effort? Have seen few actual examples. One though was Kanchelskis in his second season when he clearly wanted to get away. The Bradford cup match at home in particular.
Steve Carse
649 Posted 08/04/2021 at 15:37:22
Derek (600), having an average league finish of 8th or 9th since 1900 doesn't mean to say that there are 7 or 8 with a better average. Even despite our pathetic EPL record I'd be surprised if more than 2 or 3 do (RS, Utd, and Arsenal perhaps), particularly if you allow for placings during times spent outside the top (ie Championship winning this season would count as finishing 21st).
Danny O’Neill
650 Posted 08/04/2021 at 16:01:03
I'm with Andy on this. I believe very, very few players take to the field of play and don't try. It's not in a player's instinct when they cross the white line.

There are many reasons that a player's effort can be perceived as not trying. Looks lethargic = fitness?. A yard off = fitness, something else going on in the background?. Chasing shadows = the opposition player is really annoyingly fucking good?

Also, you have to account for what most of us have encountered as players ourselves. Sometimes, you go on with a perfect attitude. Mentally you try as hard as you possibly can but the reality is, on that day, you've put your left boot on your right foot and vice versa, and simply had a stinker to get hooked at half time. 30 minutes in my experience and at Army standard football. Not my greatest moment.

Either way I often think we sometimes confuse effort with either having an off day or being outplayed. As frustrating as it is, it happens.

Thanks Dan & 642. Might be small fry, but more Usmanov financial involvement in Everton.

Brendan McLaughlin
651 Posted 08/04/2021 at 16:11:23
Have to agree that whilst individual players may occasionally opt not to put in a shift, examples of whole teams doing likewise are as rare as hen's teeth. The only team I ever felt I witnessed coming close were Man City when they surrendered the FA cup final to Wigan in 2013.
It was well known that Mancini was to get the chop after the final and it seemed that there was no way the City players were prepared to take the chance that winning the trophy might earn him a reprieve!
Danny O’Neill
652 Posted 08/04/2021 at 16:31:21
Big shout Brendan. I sometimes thing that can be the case and we see collective performances which lead us to question whether the team cares.

Personally though, I can't imagine that a team who has the chance to win a trophy and medal would throw a match just to get rid of a manager. Especially one they'd won the league with.

Then again, I guess I never played that standard and the modern game may have sinister aspects to it like that??

Martin Mason
653 Posted 08/04/2021 at 17:10:55
Ray@648 But Kanchelskis never did anything after leaving Everton? Sometimes players like him who relied on blistering pace lose a yard and that is their whole game gone.
Ray Robinson
654 Posted 08/04/2021 at 17:55:38
Martin, there were rumours that he had to leave to pay off outstanding debts - ie by getting another signing on fee. Went to Fiorentina I think.
Barry Rathbone
655 Posted 08/04/2021 at 18:36:20
Martin 644

When Howie's team were beaten by the shite in the league final it didn't diminish the notion the team was on the verge of something or identified them as failures. Anyone who understood footy could see they were on the threshold of greatness whatever the league position or points total said, So in that regard I agree league position etc is not the only metric.

But nothing near that exists today and unless we go on a fabulous run to the end of the season that's how it will remain.

We can still exceed recent points totals or final league positions it just means evaluation of whether it represents real progress rather than a flash in the pan needs greater thought. Stats in isolation and putting on a "positivity" hat don't cut it.

Danny O’Neill
656 Posted 08/04/2021 at 18:46:42
Martin @653; yes. Player who's game is based on pace finish early. Owen, Linekar? Busted flushed by 31 or 32. In fairness, its not just the raw pace, it is the explosiveness and rate of acceleration. But, like Kanchelskis, when their entire game is based on that, once it is gone, so is their effectiveness.

Barry; at the time of the 1984 Milk Cup final, Howard Kendall was almost 3 years into his reign and at the end of his 3rd full season. Not 15 months in.

What went before that 3rd season when we genuinely started to see the shoots of potential was dire beyond belief. December 1983 (2 years in) was a dark moment.

Martin Mason
657 Posted 08/04/2021 at 18:55:46
Barry@655 As putting a negative hat doesn't.

Best Wishes

Dale Self
658 Posted 08/04/2021 at 18:57:30
Sorry Barry, I've tried to stay on the side but that last paragraph needs a rewrite. If we exceed the statistical markers from recent seasons that we all agree mark progress that's it. No need for any extra stage of evaluation.
Barry Rathbone
659 Posted 08/04/2021 at 18:58:30
Martin

Quite so - a realism hat is my chapeau of choice

Best wishes to you as well

Barry Rathbone
660 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:00:12
Dale

Rather than rewrite what I've already said I suggest you look at my fantastic reasoning on this topic earlier. Enjoy

Thomas Richards
661 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:08:59
Barry,

"So in that regard I agree league position etc is not the only metric."

You fought tooth and nail last night saying the exact opposite

Barry Rathbone
662 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:12:49
Thomas

You are confused again

Dale Self
663 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:13:05
That is rather weak Barry and not as flattering as you obviously think. Rather Piffly actually.
Darren Hind
664 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:15:52
Points are totally meaningless.

Forget what Brucie told you they do not mean prizes. Our highest ever premier league finish saw us accumulate 61 points.

Its far better to get 61 points and fourth place in a competitive league than 65 in a shite season and finish out with the washing.

Dale Self
665 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:19:57
Adding a conditional does not negate the value of a particular metric of performance. You simply have more metrics to consider in combination. Nuance and complexity escape some people so don't get too carried away adding dimensions to the evaluation.
Barry Rathbone
666 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:21:08
Dale

Darren 664 summarises it much better than I could the key being comparison of competitive and shite seasons - marvellous

Barry Rathbone
667 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:23:19
Dale 665

Am I correct in thinking you now agree there's more to it than points and league position

Danny O’Neill
668 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:23:35
League position is absolutely what counts. 72 points and 5th didn't get us Champion's League football.

Where you finish is what counts. Points contribute to that, but when you look back on history, be that recent or with nostalgia, it's where you finish that matters.

It's like winning 1 - 0 or 5 - 0, you'd rather do the latter, but you'd take the former as long as you win.

Thomas Richards
669 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:27:46
Please expand.

If league position is "not the only metric"
What further method to judge progress would you consider fair?

Dale Self
670 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:28:35
Yes Barry but which seasons are you referring to here? Is this just some discounting of the points total as a comparison for recent performances? I did see that you were wanting non-emotive evidence for the team's performance under Carlo. However, when confronted with such evidence it is discounted by some unspecified possibility of a league position playing some overriding factor in the comparison.

Okay, fine. Just lay out specifically in the order you find important all of the proposed metrics. League position, points, goal differential, whether we beat the Red Shite, and so on. Just lay it out man, we are willing to go through it to give a fair look.

Grant Rorrison
671 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:34:35
Yeah, fuck points. Let's just try and finish as high up the table as possible without actually collecting any. That's what really matters!
Thomas Richards
672 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:34:41
Darren.

Martinez?
72 points?

Darren Hind
673 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:39:27
once again the point goes sailing right over your head
Thomas Richards
674 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:40:53
😂😂😂😂.

You forgot about the 72 points season didnt you

Thomas Richards
675 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:42:43
Quick reminder of your earlier post Darren.

" Our highest ever premier league finish saw us accumulate 61 points."

No it didnt

Rob Halligan
676 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:43:02
I get what Darren means, Thomas!!
Darren Hind
677 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:44:28
You have a brain Rob..

A distinct advantage in these little debates

Dale Self
678 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:44:42
That's why he was saying points don't matter.
Robert Tressell
679 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:44:45
Brian #637. The old Moyes and Martinez era players like Coleman tended to have something to prove - coming from someone else's reserves, trying to show they weren't finished, trying to show they were good enough for the step up. Too many bought since have come for the money and lacked the fight (or just aren't fighting types). The character of this year's recruits seems to be better, at least. Godfrey in particular is a breath of fresh air.
Rob Halligan
680 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:45:03
Thomas, when We finished fourth in 2004/05, we finished on 61 points.
Thomas Richards
681 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:48:40
Apologies Darren
Ive read the post again.

Cheers Rob

Brendan McLaughlin
682 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:51:18
So, for the avoidance of doubt, are we saying 4th with 61 points was a better achievement than 5th with 72?
Confused from Coventry
Dale Self
683 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:54:33
I get the conclusion but did think that was a misstatement as well. Darren, I offer my apology since I piled on there. Thanks for making sense of that Rob.
Darren Hind
684 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:55:19
No apologies needed Thomas.

This is a footy forum... Alls fair

Rob Halligan
685 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:57:28
Brendan, I suppose it was. We had a chance to get into the champions league group stages when finishing fourth. We had no chance of getting in the champions league group stages when we finished fifth. I doubt We will ever see a team finish fourth again on 61 points.
Bobby Mallon
686 Posted 08/04/2021 at 19:58:28
Darren Hind I agree points are meaning less if you don't finish in the Euro spots. 61 is better than 72 as we finished in fourth champs league
Danny O’Neill
687 Posted 08/04/2021 at 20:38:02
In short Brenda, yes.

I guess what we are all saying is that ideally we all want to be entertained and see us amass as many points as possible.

No brainer and stating the blindingly obvious from O'Neill.

The reality; final position matters most each season. This season will bear testimony to that as much as when we finished 4th. Let's face it, that season's 4th was down to Liverpool continuously cocking up as much as it was down to a barnstorming Everton finish as I recall it. We stumbled over that line due to favourable results elsewhere. Hopefully we get similar favour this season although realistically it will be Europa.

Brendan McLaughlin
688 Posted 08/04/2021 at 20:46:59
Thanks Danny O #687
I'm only Brenda at weekends at the moment though🙋
Danny O’Neill
689 Posted 08/04/2021 at 20:59:45
Sorry Brendan. I lost a day and thought it was Friday already!!

On the phone, please excuse!!

Danny Broderick
690 Posted 08/04/2021 at 21:06:40
What do you think has been our best ever premier league team then guys? The team that finished 4th under Moyes? Or the team that amassed 72 points under Martinez?

For me, the Martinez team was better.

Danny O’Neill
691 Posted 08/04/2021 at 21:12:58
In terms of being entertained Danny, I'm with you.
Ian Horan
692 Posted 08/04/2021 at 21:24:13
Intresting take on Everton home form this season as a means to not quote my opinion I have checked the premier league stats we have a home success of 39% Leicester are 38% with the league average at 37%. Apart from City, Utd and Chelsea who are all above 60% the no crowds has impacted on home performance even the RS have dropped from circa 80% home success to 47% this season. Given the stats I think our home form is as poor as any other team albeit the usual suspects appear to be dealing with it better. Our away form is 62% so does Carlo get praise for that?, no ! I am an Everton fan and appreciate Carlo being with us. But home and away form is all over the place this season for every club.
Brian Murray
693 Posted 08/04/2021 at 21:26:34
We as a club haven't embraced the sky era at all starting with very bad and cheap business decisions ( wonder who behind that jeez ) which left us trailing big time to the likes of Chelsea etc. Remember we started this that era with as good a chance of any of making the right calls on and off the pitch so to me it's a moot point which loser gave us the best team out of the two of them. Like many I've seen proper winners in blue. Fckin criminal if you ask me how it happened and to a fan base second to none.
Barry Rathbone
694 Posted 08/04/2021 at 21:28:12
Danny 690

Martinez team by a country mile.

If he had the money to properly replace Moyes aging foot sloggers we would have rose to a level the Moyes method could never facilitate.

Moyes would have spent a similar bounty on Phil Neville variants whereas Martinez was on the threshold of something beyond containment and the likes of Rom and Stones might of stayed.

Ah well!!

Brian Wilkinson
695 Posted 08/04/2021 at 23:16:46
Martinez inherited Moyes fit team and for the first season had them playing some great football, then it all went downhill after that, fitness levels dropped, no practice of set pieces and the football got worse.
Brendan McLaughlin
696 Posted 08/04/2021 at 23:45:07
Danny #690
Yes the Martinez team but as Brian (695) has pointed out it was mainly still a Moyes team although with a few very astute additions by Roberto. Unfortunately the more Roberto added in subsequent seasons the worse we got.
Kieran Kinsella
697 Posted 09/04/2021 at 03:04:22
Off topic but anyone see the Ajax ball boy going at it with the Roma player. That was classic, time wasting wanker made to look like a fool by a kid.
Danny Broderick
698 Posted 09/04/2021 at 05:50:10
For me, the Martinez team in his first season is the best one we've had since the 80s. I would give a special mention to the Moyes team of around 2007/2008, thinking about it though. That team with the Yak up front, with Osman, Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill, Baines, Jags, Lescott etc played some great stuff at times. Such a shame the Yak did his Achilles, he was never quite the same player after that...
Barry Rathbone
699 Posted 09/04/2021 at 08:14:13
On the topic of Moyes best teams I thought the purchase of Mirallas, Jelavic and Naismith gave the best blend of strength and creativity with Jelavic unstoppable as we beat all comers with incisive, attractive football.

Unfortunately Moyes did his "thing" of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory changing the team at lower division Leeds in a cup tie with predictable results.

It broke the spell - Jelavic turned to mush and we never recovered. What a balloon Moyes was.

Stephen Brown
700 Posted 09/04/2021 at 08:28:00
Going a bit further back. A team consisting of Kanchelskis, Speed, Ferguson, Watson, Southall( older) Hinchliffe, Stuart and Barmby had potential to do well!

Let down after let down really. Gary Neville is currently doing a 15 minute Q&A on twitter and was asked where Everton will finish? His reply was I've stopped taking any notice! Every time there's a chance for them they bottle it!

Just got once wouldn't it be nice if we could get on a run and prove them all wrong. We deserve it surely

Joe McMahon
701 Posted 09/04/2021 at 08:44:13
Stephen, its not about proving them all wrong, history shows they are correct. No trophy since 1995, never a CL group stage game.

Looking at your team, some good players on there, but even then other teams had more goals unfortunately. Duncan Ferguson let us down in many ways and unfortunately Gary Speed who could certainly chip in with plenty of goals was as we all know sold.

Everton like Gary Neville hints at are always the Bridesmaid, and never the bride.

Stan Schofield
702 Posted 09/04/2021 at 09:02:11
Joe@701: Spot on. To compete at the top, we need massive investment like City, Utd and Chelsea. I mean to REALLY compete at the top like those elite-clubs, and not be habitual nearly-sides and occasional trophy winners like Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool.

Even Moshiri's investment to date is enough only to tread water or occasionally qualify for Europe, and we need a major injection from the likes of Usmanov. Perhaps that will come.

In the meantime, given what we have, the discussions on this thread about progress and Ancelotti are like rearranging the deck chairs on an old ship that needs major refits or replacement by a design that accords with modern standards.

Tommy Carter
703 Posted 09/04/2021 at 10:31:13
@698 Dan

2008 was the big chance and we thoroughly blew it away in Florence against a very average Fiorentina side that Rangers would later put to the sword. That pathway would've led us to Zenit in the final who we had already beaten that season. Although given Moyes lack of appetite for a big game away from Goodison I think we'd have probably lost it.

The ingredients were available to Moyes in 2007/2008 but he couldn't quite put them together.

He insisted on playing Lescott as left back for large parts of that season and Yobo and Stubbs featured with regularity at centre back. It took him until the following year to really introduce Baines and discover the Jags and Lescott centre back pairing. Jags featured in various positions throughout 2007/2008 including defensive midfield and right back.

The UEFA cup was the big opportunity and they blew it with a woefully negative performance in Florence. Our worst of the season. Then with nothing to lose at Goodison we came close to getting through. Moyes got us there, but he also stopped us getting any further in my opinion.

It suits him and his managerial style to be the underdog

Si Cooper
704 Posted 09/04/2021 at 15:12:41
Stephen (634), there is nothing factual about ‘he's a complete passenger, never scores, never assists and often a red card waiting to happen' (no red cards in his Everton career).
Now you've climbed down to a ‘lack' of goals / assists, and doesn't contribute ‘much' but represent it as if that is what you originally posted. If you want to come across as someone who doesn't have a closed mind, someone open to sensible debate, steer clear of absolutes like ‘complete' and ‘never'. People shouldn't have to notch down your posts to get a reasonable point out of them.
I'd also say that implying you have a gifted / superior perception will often detract from what you have to say. I'd say we've ‘all' watched the games, but that would be an absolute that isn't factual as well. I can say I've watched the games and my view of the player in more recent games is not as harsh as yours.
Si Cooper
705 Posted 09/04/2021 at 15:43:09
Barry (638), I'm going to have to retire hurt - my sides are splitting!
Now your self-indulgence extends to re-defining ‘style'.
It is indeed a word I introduced and it obviously refers to the tone of your posts, the thinly veiled insults / passive aggression contained in them and your base tactic of re-defining opposing posts so that you can more easily defuse them, and not the individual opinion you are purveying (on which, I repeat, I am completely neutral).
You know I can write it is ‘only your opinion' without it meaning you are the only person in the world who has that opinion. You know full well that ‘only' goes with ‘opinion' in that phrase because we both already know that some people share it.
To be accused of using emotive invective by someone whose posts to the ‘opposition' are laced with venomous contempt (no doubt designed to be plausibly deniable).
The ‘conversation' was about your application of the word ‘whimpering', not about whatever else you have posted Barry. Are you claiming that ‘whimpering' isn't an emotive word?
You really are funny, Barry.
Thomas Richards
706 Posted 09/04/2021 at 15:59:41
Darren, 684

Very magnanimous of you.
You had an open goal there but refused to take it. 👍

Barry Thompson
707 Posted 09/04/2021 at 17:02:27
Darren Di Canio

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