Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester City and Tottenham along with AC Milan, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus and Real Madrid have been announced as the founding members of a new competition that goes directly against the Uefa Champions League and will ensure the revenue gap between them and their domestic rivals continues to widen.
A further three clubs are expected to join the competition for its inaugural season which ESL signatories say is "intended to commence as soon as practicable", possibly as early as 2022-23. A further five places could be offered each year to qualifying teams, a proposal that might blunt Fifa's objections to "closed shop" leagues. ESL plan to play matches in midweek while still participating in their domestic leagues but that was met with a robust riposte.
The Premier League issued a statement earlier this afternoon saying that the six member clubs would face expulsion if they elected to take part in what a spokesman described as "a proposal that attacks the principles of open competition and sporting merit which are at the heart of the domestic and European football pyramid.”
A joint statement by the Football Association, Uefa and the Premier League said that they were “united in our efforts to stop this cynical project” which is “founded on the self-interest of a few clubs at a time when society needs solidarity more than ever. This persistent self-interest of a few has been going on for too long — enough is enough."
Uefa and Fifa, football's global governing body, have warned that any player who took part in such an unsanctioned league would be banned from appearing in the World Cup and European Championships. This season's Champions League and Europa League competitions were said to have been suspended but this is apparently not the case.
Meanwhile, following an emergency meeting, that took place without its president, Juventus owner Andre Agnelli (he quit the ECA following tonight's announcement as all 12 clubs also withdrew), Bayern Munich and Paris Saint-Germain, two clubs always expected to join a breakaway "super league" but who rejected an invitation, the European Club Association, the body which represents 246 leading clubs in Europe, joined in the near-universal condemnation of the plan and reiterated its commitment to revamping the Champions League instead.
Reportedly led by the American owners of Liverpool and Manchester United and chaired by Real Madrid president Florentino Pérez, the ESL is believed to be backed by JP Morgan bank who will front £3.5bn to launch the league and pay its member clubs €350m just for participating.
Speaking on Sky Sports this evening as the announcement of the Super League was pending, former Manchester United defender Gary Neville voiced his disgust at the breakaway and called on the respective leagues to come down hard on the rebel 12.
"It's pure greed; they're imposters,” Neville said. “The owners of Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester City, they are nothing to do with football in this country.
"Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham aren't even in the Champions League. And they want a God-given right to be in there? They're an absolute joke.
"The time has come now to have independent regulators to stop these clubs from having the power base. Enough is enough."
Reader Comments (619)
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1 Posted 18/04/2021 at 15:42:05
2 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:21:15
Threaten them, and their players, with a 5-year ban from domestic and international competitions. Kick them out of their domestic leagues and see how long “overseas fans” are willing to watch Liverpool play Real Madrid. It will become very repetitive after a season, a sort of glorified SPL.
3 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:33:58
Fans will be bored to death of it after a season or two and the business model will slowly fail due to not meeting the expectations for TV revenues.
Good riddance to the greedy, anti competitive cartel.
4 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:36:31
Yes, the Prem could kick out the Big 6 for doing this, but then would likely be required to refund millions in TV rights fees. The entire English league would take a financial hammer blow, would it not? And wouldn't the England team be devastated by the banning of Maguire, Stones, Kane, Rashford, Sterling, Foden, Mount, Walker etc. etc. etc.? Would England take the chance of suddenly becoming a World Cup irrelevancy?
I agree the Super League will likely fail, especially without Barca, Bayern, PSG and the Germans, but the collateral damage will be substantial.
5 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:41:34
6 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:47:42
7 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:51:07
8 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:52:43
9 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:58:06
10 Posted 18/04/2021 at 16:58:59
Yes there will be enormous financial disruption but they could end up ruined if their financial backers (JP Morgan or Morgan Stanley?) get cold feet and back out.
I think now is the time to strike and break up this Cartel and the supremacy of agents. It could be a golden opportunity to reform football from top to bottom.
11 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:00:05
Have Uefa not run this past Greta Thunberg? She'll be fuming.
12 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:01:15
And any young lad joining the academy of one of these clubs might be cutting their own throat by limiting who they could later sign for?
And would established players be less inclined to sign for one of these "super" clubs if they knew that they might not personally be successful but see themselves banned from the Premier League and other national leagues?
Would love to see them go; then see the initiative fail; then see the "little 6" beg to be taken back - into the third or fourth tier.
13 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:01:59
14 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:08:50
Let them go and start a European Super League in the knowledge it will be like going abroad to fight for Islamic State. A one-way ticket. Dont come back, scumbags.
(And the RS can take their missile-hurling low-life with them as well).
Mind you, its a big opportunity if you are in the prawn sandwich business...
15 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:08:51
If they do take it up, then they should be excluded from the Premier League, allow clubs some leniency on the fair play league.
Then if they come back after a few years, with their tail between their legs, other clubs would have had time to strengthen their squads, to give them a fairer chance in the future.
This could play right into our hands, at the right time.
16 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:09:50
Whether they get the deal that they want will be down to the remaining Premier League clubs having the courage to kick them out. Along with the resolution to resist bribery and corruption in all its guises.
If it means a hit in finances and some disruption it will be well worth it to see them go for good.
For the likes of Arsenal, Tottenham and Liverpool the Premier League as it stands is becoming far too competitive for their owners liking.
This is all about getting rid of that nuisance competition that may see a fall in income.
17 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:09:57
I hope it doesnt happen as it could be damaging for BMD and obtaining funding/sponsorship but think those gobshite clubs will probably negotiate a greater cut of TV deals as a compromise if they stay.
18 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:10:43
Didnt Donald try and set up a rival league to the NFL? Didnt the Chinese pay millions to entice the best players and managers to the orient?
This project will be dead in a few days now that all the major leagues have come out against it.
19 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:12:41
20 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:17:21
And not just the superstars. As a US fan, I can guarantee you that Pulisic, McKennie, Dest, Steffen would be out of their clubs so fast they'd leave skid marks... and so would all the South American players in the Super League rosters. On this side of the Atlantic, the biggest dream of all is the World Cup.
21 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:19:07
So that they could in future, in a retaliatory move, revamp the qualification framework, demanding additional "skills" from coaches; with all coaches having to requalify; but with Uefa then refusing to let any Super League coach be retested, thereby disqualifying them from any future coaching role in the Premier League or any other national league?
Or could that be challenged in the courts? Restraint of trade and all that?
22 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:23:37
23 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:27:01
24 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:27:11
Do it with the agents' licenses and the problem is over.
25 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:28:07
If they want to go rogue Im sure they are rich enough to survive, on their own, for a year or two but the sanctions would be crippling. Their players would be excluded from all competitions. They would lose sponsors and endorsements plus millions of fans who are also sickened by their greed.
If the domestic leagues remain firm these clubs will eventually throw in the towel. I hope they are punished accordingly ie massive fines, points deduction even relegation once they come crawling back.
26 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:30:39
53 min: Mary Waltz is vexed. “My boss at the time I got into football, a Indian British ex-pat, introduced me to the Premier league. NBC had started their coverage stateside. He was a United fan but he told me you have to pick a team. Everyone in my circle were United, Liverpool, big six fans. That seemed too bandwagony for my tastes. I read a Guardian story about Everton setting up a walk-in centre for their locals with mental health issues. That actual connection to their fans in the community, not just writing checks but actually being involved with their people, sealed the deal for me, thats the team I want to follow. This super league is the exact opposite of that ethos, its naked greed and its disgusting.”
27 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:31:19
28 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:32:13
29 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:38:17
Colin, presumably they could only be relegated from a league if they were a member of it. With them having left the Premier League, don't allow them back, other than in the EFL lowest division.
30 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:43:16
I honestly dont think these people have really thought this out. It might just be a ploy to get more of the tv money but as some have said, can you imagine the likes of Kane, Neymar, Mbappe, Ronaldo etc... being banned from representing their countries in World Cups?
31 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:45:41
32 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:46:13
So the PL will survive but at the same sort of cost that the FA Cup has survived - the big clubs putting out second string teams for the games considered less important.
It's all a bag of shite really.
33 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:46:52
If Spurs getting to the final of a cup competition (because that's all the Champions League is) warrants inclusion in a European Super League, then fair enough. A club that has only won its own domestic league twice, the last time being 60 years ago, a club who, in the time since our last piece of silverware, have won two league cups. Their inclusion is simply because they managed to qualify for the Champions League for about five or six seasons (plus their new stadium), though I think it will be a long time before they qualify again, should this super league fall through.
34 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:52:18
It was very much an American based idea that doesnt take into consideration the importance of fans, especially away supporters. In the NFL and other American sports, away fans traveling en masse is unheard of, mainly due to the size of the country. Can you see 4-5,000 RS traveling to Spain or Italy every other week? The cost for fans is going to kill any away support in the first season.
Its interesting that Man City are the 6th club mentioned, but havent signed up for it. They can probably see the damage it will do to their City Football Partnership projects if they join up. Also, their owners are involved with FIFA so that wouldnt go down too well. Also the owners have more money than Scrooge McDuck and dont really need anymore.
35 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:52:20
I am less sanguine than some of you about this being prevented. After all, there were plenty of bleats from the old Football League when the Premier League was first mooted in the 90s.
We saw what happened (and at the time our own Mr Carter was one of the five who made it all happen).
36 Posted 18/04/2021 at 17:55:45
37 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:02:29
38 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:08:02
39 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:13:40
40 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:18:22
How does that sound?
41 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:23:12
42 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:24:40
If the Germans, French and Barca (fan owned) dont join this will be even shittier than originally thought. Let them all just fuck off!!!
43 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:27:39
44 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:31:27
Announcement at 21:30 tonight.
45 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:32:15
I hope they go tbh
46 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:36:52
The filth can see themselves struggling to finish top four over the coming seasons. This is their way of covering that. A club with no moral values have stooped even lower.
47 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:39:07
48 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:39:13
49 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:42:16
This has been bubbling away for years with these clubs, although the timing, it must be said is odd. Maybe the owners are pissed off they cant take as much from the various debt arrangements.
Or maybe they think that all the domestic fans have been educated in watching football with no crowds, which is of little value to these clubs commercially, in any case.
Or maybe they dont give a fuck.
50 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:44:21
51 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:47:09
For the clubs to play in the European Super League, they need the Premier League's permission, which will naturally be refused, meaning the only way is to break away from the Premier League altogether.
52 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:52:47
And their U23 squads get kicked out of the Premier League 2. So who do they play? Where's the competition for them?
53 Posted 18/04/2021 at 18:56:16
54 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:05:41
Of course it's already all about money now but what is proposed is fundamentally different. Every fan in the land can aspire to European football however unlikely the prospect. Now the rich want to shut the door and keep themselves safe in an utterly artificial club which will be as authentic as Jeux Sans Frontieres.
Oh please go, take all that is rotten with you, and let us keep our game. Imagine international football without them My God we might even watch it.
Tell them they are going down a one-way street and fuck them off forever.
55 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:07:24
Can't wait for the owners of both clubs to fill their pockets with tv and sponsorship monies then announce the "franchises" are moving lock stock and barrel to the US.
56 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:16:06
Uefa and the domestic leagues have to present a united front and face them down. If they want to go, then go... but they and their players will be banned from all competitions both domestic and international until they are brought to heel.
The whole idea is a disgrace. Greed of the worst kind.
57 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:17:26
Exactly like any player who wants to play in the World Cup.
These "super" clubs could be shells of themselves in a year.
58 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:20:46
59 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:27:23
60 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:30:34
Taken from UEFA statement.
Good for them
61 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:37:37
Fair play to Gary Neville for his comments. Spot on!! Sky in a strange position because you know they'd be the first TV company to sign up to show it. Awful day for football.
62 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:48:23
63 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:55:02
64 Posted 18/04/2021 at 19:59:53
65 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:00:04
Fucking about with the relegation system to create more revenue and selling the rights to Sky exclusively, they are reaping what they have sown... greed and global marketing at the expense of the "lower clubs".
Saying that... I hope the so called "Big 6" fuck off.
66 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:00:27
67 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:01:37
68 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:05:17
69 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:09:09
70 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:09:16
If the players aren't picked for their national teams and the super league is isolated so they can only ever play each other in competitive games it will eventually fail. Meawhile, Everton would be then biggest club left in the Prem and would play in Europe every season, but no more derbies!
There's a lot of conjecture, but I still don't see how this can go ahead unless the said clubs exile themselves, which may do them more damage in the long run
71 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:10:02
72 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:11:16
For those of a younger disposition, in the mid-1960s there was for the first time ever a set of decent radio stations playing modern music people wanted to hear. The BBC transmitted nothing of the sort. Tony Benn then brought in the 'Marine Offenses Act' which effectively closed down the pirates, and we got shitty Radio 1 in their place. I have never listened to Radio 1 (or any of the other crap spinoffs, though I do listed to Radio 3 most days and It's my default in the car- unless they're playing jazz), and will never do so.
The legacy of the debâcle of British radio is the plethora of indistinguishable FM garbage. I should be delighted if the legacy of this US-owner, greed driven strategy is the demise of these horrible clubs (and the bankruptcy of the owners), and their revival under some kind of German-style fan-ownership structure, with the main competitions being national (I have no idea who won any of the Spanish, Italian, Greek or "Champions" leagues last year, and I couldn't care less).
73 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:14:57
I doubt a single club has bothered. They don't care about the local fans, that's not where the money's at.
This league is targeting worldwide plastic fans who are rabid to watch football of the big name teams. They are just thinking about the huge TV contracts from the middle and far east that by far exceed the amount they get from season tickets and matchday income.
They'll jack up ticket prices to, to accomodate all the plastic tourist fans coming in from around the world to watch the league as well.
74 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:15:25
Football is now massively global, they don't give a flying fuck about local fans, it's product and revenue driven.
Hence why we take the piss out of our Norwegian neighbours. Saying that, a new level of footballer has emerged over the past 10 years, one which sees money as success and not trophies. Look at Neymar, Suarez and a host of others for that matter.
75 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:17:58
76 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:21:42
77 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:23:45
Any such league will end up as a last payday for ageing stars who no longer play internationals. I really can't see it happening, doesn't seem to have longevity to it.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear of changes being made to the Premier League as a result of all this. Hope not though. And praying that the Premier League has the balls to stand its ground.
78 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:26:32
The only time I have deliberately watched Bayern Munich (who, to their great credit do not seem to be part of this US-mafia led enterprise) was in 1985.
79 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:34:36
No football fan who knows and loves the game would support such a crass idea. It's against the spirit of the game and sport, and would drive a massive undertow of ridicule and miss trust if the Premier League, FA, Uefa and Fifa don't take appropriate action to this football circus.
But let's see what the respective bodies do and if they plan to take action with maximum impact and effect immediately. Let's hope so and then we shall see.
Interesting no German, and Dutch clubs have shown alignment to this idea. Obviously the fact that most clubs, if trading as a true plc, on trade only would be bust years ago.
Raises questions on the motives etc and the cartel behind this. Players themselves would lose their development potential and it would be boring and stale after a season.
A glorified Scottish Premier League, in Europe and seriously how would fans be able to attend all these away legs?
I really hope the powers that be name and shame these clubs and whack them brutally where it hearts most.
Is there a timeline for a judicial challenge by the Premier League, Uefa, and Fifa, as I would expect a counter plan ASAP. Stand firm and ban these traitor clubs and their players and send them to sporting banishment.
Selfish, dirty self centred gang of lice clubs. Fekkn send them to their self-inflicted demise. This potentially could open up for a pan-UK League, which has been on the draft agenda for donkies years.
Interesting times, but now to beat Arsenal.
80 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:36:57
No, I see this proposed league as brinkmanship and a threat so Uefa revamp the existing Champions League so these "so-called" big clubs get to play each season, even if they don't make the top 4.
81 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:42:15
What's the bet they want to play 2nd teams in the Premier League.
In the words of Kevin Keegan..."I would love it, love it" if this comes to fruition.
82 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:50:21
I'd go for a 5-year ban and a 3-division national demotion on any club that didn't withdraw from this within 24 hours.
83 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:51:13
If it did happen, I think they should be completely blacklisted from UK football.
84 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:51:31
85 Posted 18/04/2021 at 20:53:21
They will however cause the same authorities to come to a compromise on many financial issues irking these owners and I suspect like others that such a goal is their real and ultimate aim.
There will be fuss and arguments but it's all part of a game of smoke and mirrors.
86 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:00:36
Let's hope Fifa, Uefa, the Premier League and the UK government take this shower to the cleaners.
87 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:01:07
88 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:02:58
Of the 12 clubs known to be a part of this obscenity (15 rumored), only 3 have American owners.
By multiple accounts, the originators are Perez at Real Madrid and Agnelli at Juve.
And JP Morgan, the US bank providing the financial backing, is already deep in business with both. They're financing much of the rebuild of Real's stadium, and Juve's new finance chief joined the club directly from JP Morgan, where he was a leveraged finance analyst specializing in sport financing transactions.
The Yanks are participating, but there's no indication they're driving it.
89 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:05:20
90 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:08:38
91 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:10:01
My theory is it will even the playing field. Do you really think football will stop being a popular game in this country if the 6 or however many leave? I think it will be the total opposite. We have an extended SPL now, clubs who spend massive and break FFP rules under some spurious monitory rules.
Trust me, this has been coming for a while and is doomed to failure IMO but, when it does fail, the big money men will drop their toys and run off into the far distance never to be seen again.
Bring it on, I say.
92 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:14:57
93 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:17:26
If the yanks (Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal) win this battle, then don't be surprised if the two northern “franchises” are moved, eventually, to the USA or China. Can you imagine the New York Red Devils vs The Miami City Reds?
I'm with Charles Brewer 72, bring back Radio Caroline and Radio sodding Luxembourg!!! United we stand, divided we fall.
94 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:24:28
95 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:33:11
A closed league of 20 with no decent cup competition would soon become dull. In this instance, I think Everton would actually prosper as the the biggest club left in the Premier League and would be playing the likes of PSG and Dortmund every season in the new Champions League.
If Liverpool and the others were allowed to field teams in the Premier League, it would be enabling the thing to succeed IMO.
96 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:34:55
97 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:35:14
If Everton is involved in this, I'd include them, too.
If it was to happen, then I think Celtic and Rangers would apply to join the English League pyramid.
98 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:37:51
Desperately trying to maintain an angle of 'We're still standing up for what's right' whilst they sell the national game down the river
99 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:38:54
At the moment, it's probably only a bargaining ploy but let's hope the Premier League show some balls and, for example, dock them all points.
100 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:39:34
"What's the bet they want to play 2nd teams in the Premier League?"
That is in no way condoning it and, if that did happen, it would be the final nail in the FA's coffin.
101 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:40:31
102 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:41:06
103 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:44:30
104 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:47:35
105 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:48:06
106 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:50:58
To be fair I would imagine that fans of most of these breakaway clubs would be appalled at their clubs actions and greed. God knows what the man who transformed the fortunes of an ordinary second division club Bill Shankly would have said about it.
107 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:53:29
These clubs want more TV money, they want a bigger share of the pot.
This inequitable sharing of TV money is what supporters need to look out for more than anything . This is the game changer and this is what will end any meaningful competition on a permanent basis.
This permanent boost in financial strength will severely limit competition to them and hence virtually guarantee future revenues.
Once that extra TV money is secured they will work tirelessly on reducing the Premier League to 18 clubs, in tandem with expanding the number European matches.
This will be having their cake and eating it, which is surely and logically the ultimate goal.
108 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:54:07
109 Posted 18/04/2021 at 21:56:32
110 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:04:55
It cant be allowed to happen. Clearly double standards in the game that some clubs believe they are so far above the laws, ethics and morals of the game.
This is treason and the clubs concerned must face the penalties.
As I said on an earlier comment and have said over previous years, this does open for debate the Old Firm, but I dont think with all due respect that the transport logistics would fit and it would detriment the rest of Scottish football.
Imagine the ex RS circus of gobshites on the media panels would be fighting each other to get a slot, fekkn RS gobshites, and in hind site sacking Big Nose last year, may have been a signal of what was coming,
The game is finished for me if this goes unpunished and Im born, live and die a Blue, and live in the values that Everton, shows and bestows to its global community. But if Everton did ever follow suit, then, Id self excommunicate.
Football is the game for the people and thus should remain so, at all levels, and across all Nations, regardless of finance and politics.
111 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:06:48
112 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:08:01
Everton are spending £500 million to build a new stadium with the ambition to play in Champions League. Fans all over love the competition as it is," he said.
“In my time at United, we played in four Champions League finals and they were always the most special of nights.
Lets hope we can still build that stadium. Anyone think the money will go South from the Prem if this happens ?
113 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:12:28
114 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:13:01
JP Morgan (are they the redshite owners?) are pumping circa 5 billion into this venture.
115 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:13:01
JP Morgan (are they the redshite owners?) are pumping circa 5
116 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:15:16
If an LoI is signed then punish them immediately.
Football would survive without these clubs.
I feel for their fans. I haven't seen anyone defend this.
117 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:16:07
They are doing the massive shat on their own fans and the game as a whole.
Life time bans for the clubs and contracted players let them play in the Hades League for their duration.
Fekk, them all.
118 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:17:19
119 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:18:42
120 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:20:35
121 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:21:38
Thats how much notice I take of em.
122 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:22:13
All designed to ensure inclusion into the club regardless of how you perform. It defies the spirit of competition and being rewarded for existing rather than being successful.
There will be a fudge, words of diplomacy and EU style dressing it up as something else, but this will happen.
123 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:23:35
That comment wasn't intended to be ironic but I agree it is in the sense, as Mike implies, it would seriously impact the viability of the Scottish Leagues.
124 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:29:57
Why are they continually pushing back the official announcement?
125 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:33:23
Fucking brill. Spurs and Arsenal would be the whipping boys, all United and shite fans who cross over the channel will get battered and Real and Barca will go about buying any player that can do more than 10 keepy uppies.
Love the idea of inviting Celtic and Rangers into the new EPL, may as well get Cardiff in to create a UK-EPL (obviously without the E).
Added bonus, could be the end of having to listen to Carragher as a match day commentator.
126 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:34:04
Flying a kite, perhaps. See initial reaction. If favourable, continue. If unfavourable, plausible deniability.??
127 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:34:55
128 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:37:05
129 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:38:35
Major professional Welsh teams (Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport) have played in the English leagues for decades.
Maybe they like being big fishes in a small pond? There's the irony of this project.
130 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:40:09
131 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:40:30
Is this a case of who blinks first in the negotiations for a better deal? PL or the "super" clubs?
132 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:46:25
133 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:46:32
134 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:46:36
I remember something last year that included some sort of second tier involving us, West Ham and bizarrely Southampton - has that been taken off the table?
135 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:47:45
136 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:47:45
Of course we will be forced to allow concessions to keep the gravy train running.
It really is no different from us being compliant in the formation of the PL back in the day.
I hate so much about the game today. I dearly would like all of the 11 clubs involved to go and do it. I wouldn't miss any of them.
137 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:49:44
138 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:50:33
My brother, who grew up with the Moyes years, which often leads us into healthy debate, sent me an "on this day" twitter post today.
15,000 travelling Evertonians descended on Villa Park to see Kevin Sheedy secure a 1 - 0 win on 18th April 1987. I was a 16 year old stood in the away end (if there was one) that day. That, for me, was the day I knew we were winning the league. Great times.
139 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:50:45
140 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:51:03
141 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:52:09
The whole thing is disgraceful. Yanks thinking they can supersede the existing European body. If the said clubs do break away this 'Super League' will only be fit for the prawn sandwich brigade and armchair plastics. The days of football being for the working man will be truly over. How many supporters from these 6 clubs are going to travel abroad nearly every other week?! It'll be Americanised and suit armchair fans
142 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:53:03
143 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:54:50
Dave, it's just possible (pure guess on my part) that the English clubs are using the other European clubs and the threat of a super league in order to get a better deal from the Premier league?
This could backfire on them.
144 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:55:59
145 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:59:02
146 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:59:37
147 Posted 18/04/2021 at 22:59:37
148 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:04:07
Im as angered as the rest of us, but I dont see this being an easy win, for the traitor clubs.
I learn every day of this website about all matters, Everton and life, its our global Parish of Evertonians, and long may it last, through good and bad and very dark days.
“Whats Our Name?”
149 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:07:28
150 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:08:17
Their boards will surely push the fans on a vote for yes, citing financial gain etc.
151 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:11:01
I suspect this is a game of poker and some sort of compromised fudge will be agreed.
Too coincidental that this has been "leaked" ahead of the announcement of the revised format of the European competition.
The positive here is that there is universal condemnation of it. Let's see (and hope) where that goes and if they listen to it.
152 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:11:41
But its time fo4 the respective football authorities to stand firm, and boycott and ban these clubs, for life.
They have no motive other than greed and more greed.
The end of the game in the UK, and Europe, for football supporters beckons, if no action is taken.
153 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:16:14
154 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:18:18
I said this with a heavy heart previously and it dismays me. But the phrase football is nothing without the fans has become hollow.
The last 12 months has demonstrated that the higher echelons of the game don't actually need fans in the stadium. They just need to be able to televise and stream their product to make their money.
That breaks my heart to say it, but it is proving true. I only hope that it is not sustainable, because I do believe that without the fans it simply isn't. Nice to see people back at Wembley today.
155 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:19:56
You could be right Paul but I suspect more too it than that TBH.
FIFA, UEFA and the FA will then know it's just posturing and will not take them seriously next time they threaten to leave.
Either that, or they are bartering about players representing their countries or the like.
156 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:20:40
I learn on this website more than one ever gets from the media and the Red Echo, we all care more than we should do, as we are at the end of the day Evertonians, and die hard supporters of Everton and football and the sporting principals and virtues it brings.
This is a farce of an idea and lets hope the clubs concerned get relegated and punished for breach of compliance and ethics..
But action must be taken. The first time and credit due to Gary Neville for speaking from his heart and slamming his own club, and this idea.
The RS, and its my gut feeling are a key stake holder in this scheme. Sherlock is on the case and Watson is checking but its un canny.
They think as a club for years they are above the rest.
Truely a club run, by Old Nick?
157 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:22:46
"AC Milan, Arsenal, Atlético Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Real Madrid +Tottenham Hotspur have all joined as founding clubs. Anticipated further 3 clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, intended to commence asap."
158 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:26:25
159 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:28:07
160 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:28:26
And its not just about Everton, its about football in general. As Howard Kendall once said, Evertonians are the most knowledgable football supporters around.
161 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:28:38
Dirty rats, lets be clear thats the start, may they rest in football Hell.
162 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:30:00
Side not but my respect for Gary Neville went through the roof after hearing him today.
163 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:30:21
164 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:31:17
Midweek competition... gauge the TV audience and the feeling for whether it is a goer or not.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained and remain in domestic league.
165 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:31:39
166 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:32:15
167 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:32:43
168 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:35:08
169 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:35:50
European super league. Really!!! No German, French or Dutch teams and some fucking how Spurs are included.
Someone has got to have some power and fuck these teams right out of the EPL. Now.
170 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:36:02
So, only 12 clubs are the founding members and governing members, and presumably only they have the decision-making power.
3 others to join, as yet unannounced and presumably with no vote in decisions.
Plus 5 to qualify annually.
171 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:37:00
I would uncomfortably ask, who are the 3 other clubs involved, I hope to god its not Everton. But my gut tells me otherwise. But my view is the same.
There have to be repercussions. Who the **** do they think they are? The arrogance of money..
Immediate ban from EPL. No players allowed to transfer in or out to these clubs. No national competitions. No Way Back.
172 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:37:38
173 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:38:16
174 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:39:53
175 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:40:56
176 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:42:56
Barca, Real, and likely all these clubs with massive FFP, and legacy long term debts.
Time for governments to ban these clubs and this organisation.
Let BMD commence and boycott the RS and these clubs at every level.
Fekkn shit house clubs, forgetting their beginnings, and fair play to the respective German, Dutch and a French Leagues for being loyal to the values of the game. The battle begins, but lets see which countries have sired this concept to market.
It remains to be seen whose running this circus but is smacks, in my view on TV moguls and Betting Companies.
And of course the dirty rat clubs.
Surely a gang of x12 clubs from Europe some of which have very poor finances, crowd profiles, and ground facilities for supporters, cant hold FIFA, UEFA, @ the EPL, to ordain and accept this sketch?
Surely tonight the lawyers are in over drive of the impacted football bodies?
177 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:43:03
178 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:43:17
Any player who plays in this competition is banned for life from playing in any official tournament, or for his country.
We will soon see how much support the offending clubs are actually giving the money men.
This is all about making an American style franchise system across Europe. It has to be opposed. It has to be stopped.
179 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:43:39
Second thought: where does this leave our financing for BMD? Massively weaker position if we're no longer going to be a member of a top tier league. Did Colin Chong et al have a whiff of this? Have they already locked something in? Seems like it was a pretty well kept secret.
Fuck off football.
180 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:43:58
181 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:44:11
182 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:44:50
184 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:48:09
The end of football.
Fuck them all the greedy self serving bastards.
185 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:49:03
The non-rational part of me says "just fuck off".
186 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:50:41
"It has to be opposed. It has to be stopped."
No it don't mate. Late the fuckers go and watch the likes of Spurs, Arsenal sink like ships. City will be only ones who have any chance the rest will just make up the league.
The premier league has to think and then put into action a plan that inlcudes other UK teams and THEN.. move forward...
The CL will still exist... German, French, Dutch teams still want to play this competition
187 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:50:56
188 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:51:50
They want to continue as normal but are just sticking two fingers up to UEFA so they can get better worldwide revenue and TV money.
Paul #51. They can still attend any european games as obligated and just forfeit them at the last minute. The legal eagles at all these clubs have had years to review and I'm sure they have found loopholes to allow them to create a new European competition.
189 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:52:01
190 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:53:10
191 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:54:12
Likewise football virtual if this concept goes unchallenged, wont last and the game will pass and more fans will turn away over time.
But opportunity strikes and theres potential for counter schemes to be set up.
But the desire shown by the traitor clubs, for means kick them out now, as is immediate relegation for breach of contract.
Fitting justice it would be for 1985.. and let them play circus football.
Id like to do a reccy on the related traitor clubs to check their respective club business development and growth plans, for the next five years.
Theres more to this heist than meets the eye, especially with their respective community, and ground and supporter club plans.
But hopefully there will be a massive revoke by the UK and EU government this week followed by giga pinfold fines and. And of 5 years for all these traitor clubs.
We live in hope.
192 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:56:41
Will European fans go for it? time will tell but I doubt it. Let's take a normal season (obviously not this one) and round about this time; 20 teams, 2/3 in with a shout for the league a further 6/7 in with a chance of Europe, and at the other end 6 fighting to stay in the league.
This makes the league competitive almost up to the death. Now let's have a look at the super league; depending on format probably no relegation obviously no Europe, so you have 2/3 teams in with a shout of winning and a whole load of dead rubbers.
So would I pay to watch Anderlect play Ajax in a meaningless friendly? To be honest I wouldn't even pay to watch PSG vs Barca in the Championship decider.
If this is a thing, then UEFA should grow a pair wave them bye bye and carry on without them
193 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:59:23
194 Posted 18/04/2021 at 23:59:42
195 Posted 18/04/2021 at 00:00:04
Manchester United FC
Manchester city FC
Tottenham Hotspur FC (Fuck knows why?)
These six clubs are no longer part of English football. They can no longer participate in the premier league, league cup or FA Cup!!
196 Posted 18/04/2021 at 00:00:58
197 Posted 18/04/2021 at 00:02:38
They are trying to take the running of the game over, by what criteria?
But also is their collusion and double agents within FIFA, UEFA, and perhaps the EPL?
It would be not a surprise..
Common factors and its been referenced on this thread but facts are needed.
198 Posted 18/04/2021 at 00:03:30
To be fair, RAWK has now gone into full melt-down, with the vast majority of RS completely against the idea. mourning the death of their club, football, and life as we know it etc.
Fuck knows what happens with Bramley Moore if this actually goes ahead and either The Six are flung out of the PL, or take very little interest in it because it doesn't lead to European qualification any more.
I'd love to know what Spurs and Arsenal fans are thinking, because right now they are the weakest link and are likely to be propping up the Super Table year after year. Spurs haven't won anything since Moses was a boy, so they'd be better off sticking with the PL and battling it out with us for the title,
199 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:05:49
All six “English” clubs have now left the ECA.
200 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:12:43
201 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:14:21
202 Posted 18/04/2021 at 00:14:59
They seem to think their individual brand is greater than the game so let them go. Maybe they can get the Harlem Globe Trotters to form a Soccer Team and include a Celebrity Team and Reality TV team as that seems to be the direction of travel.
203 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:15:42
UEFA due to announce it tomorrow.
204 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:18:58
205 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:19:03
We are going to learn a lot about the resolve and integrity of the national and international governing bodies and many an individual involved in the game.
Owners. Managers. Players. Administrators. Politicians. Broadcastors. Sponsors.
Oh! And us, the fans.
I have no idea how this will play out, but I'll be an avid follower of developments.
206 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:19:31
207 Posted 18/04/2021 at 00:22:43
FIFA and uefa have had it cushy for years. Milking the game rather than govern it accordingly. They have let the big guns get away with loads of things and not blinked an eye.
They are now shit scared that the big guns want to govern themselves and take their money with them.
They all just want a bigger piece of the pie. A world league will follow.
Franchised clubs could move to different countries, imagine Liverpool moving to Norway or Man U Thailand.
Players will not be able to play for their countries as the super club will call the shots.
Other sports have had breakaway leagues with different governing bodies.
Whatever happens the new premier league, EFL and fa have to look after the game at all domestic levels.
208 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:29:33
He said: "By bringing together the world's greatest clubs and players to play each other throughout the season, the Super League will open a new chapter for European football, ensuring world-class competition and facilities, and increased financial support for the wider football pyramid."
Seriously, just fuck off. Not even the RS believe that bollocks, and they're the most deluded fuckers on the planet.
209 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:30:42
210 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:35:30
211 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:36:52
I know what the astute young player SHOULD wish for but how many of such players are there, necessarily supported by long-sighted, wise, principled agents, as they'll think they need?
212 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:41:19
There needs to be repercussions for all 6 immediately that doesnt back them into a corner where they leave (because as much as I despise them, it will devalue the league for a while), but does impact them enough so they wont threaten to leave again. I would advocate anything between a 10 and 20 point deduction for each club.
213 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:42:47
Which makes me wonder whether they know more than we know.
It's so obviously a bad idea. But would they put it forward if they thought there was any chance they were deducted points, booted from their domestic comp, booted from the current CL season etc?
I can't quite figure out what their play is here. The PL, UEFA, FIFA can simply stand firm. The only players in the league would be aging players - it would be like the US NSL was.
It does, though, bring Project Big Picture into context. These 6 would have been able to simply approve continued PL involvement and downvote any points deductions. The two can't be put into any other context. Big Picture indeed.
Just to add, big sports are never focused on the hardcore. Boxing fans know this. It's the casual supporter that pays the big bucks.
214 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:43:05
I just hope Everton, are not one of the other three clubs mentioned.
Take utd and our neighbours out of the equation, the likes of Chelsea, City have only recently, been one of the top dogs, so who is to say the likes of Leeds Villa, West Ham and the likes, will not do the same, then in say ten years times, those big clubs will have been replaced by new teams, especially with not being handicapped, in the transfer window, like they were when clubs in the top 4 were buying hand over fist, due to guaranteed Champions league revenue, every season.
So I think the premier league will actually thrive and see more competition.
215 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:43:44
What you have here is more and more of football building itself from the top down rather than the bottom up.
A closed club that gets increasingly more difficult to become part of. The English disease as a very wise coach once called it to me is spreading throughout Europe. They're building the roof before the foundations. My only hope is that the realisation of that not being a good strategy will come home to roost.
You always grow grass from the seed. Grass roots and foundations are key to sustainment.
Souless owners with no compassion or feeling for their clubs or the game of football.
216 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:45:41
217 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:48:35
218 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:48:47
Now, greed was the reason for the start of the premier league, but from a football fans point of view, the change was not drastic. Then we went from 3 major European competitions to 2 and the champion's league. which, as mentioned many times, you didn't have to be a champion to win. However, as fans - despite the greed, we could still buy into it. Then Liverpool won it, and couldn't qualify because they finished 5th rules were changed and alarm bells should have been a ringing! Then I heard talks of letting clubs in on 'historical reasons' hhhhmmmm!
However, I think this has gone several steps too far! Fans and ex-players of the clubs involved have reacted negatively. It really has been a massive miscalculation on these teams' behalf. Wow! The arrogance. Also, now please explain this Why Spurs? I mean nationally, they've always had the media behind them, been a glamour club, Top of the Pops appearances 'Ozzy is going to Wembley' cringe cringe - Chris and Glen no words needed, but internationally . and I have lived and worked in quite a lot of foreign countries; they mean very little! So, why Spurs? How can that be justified? Rhetorical question really.
But, at least now, the greed aspect has been exposed for all to see. We shall see what the players are really made of. I could wax lyrical about how I have almost completely fallen out of love with the game I loved watching and playing, but will leave that for another day. My food deed for one and all!
219 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:49:32
No respect for the effects and consideration of the the start and of Association Football, and for the lower leagues and grass routes football.
I hope all the world football authorities ban and fine these traitor clubs.
220 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:51:09
221 Posted 19/04/2021 at 00:54:18
As for the PL teams involved, I have no doubt that the American owners of Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United are the instigators and I find it inexplicable that Chelsea, City and Spurs have been stupid enough to join in, as without them it would have been a total non-starter.
222 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:04:12
223 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:04:34
The whole thing is just a selfish power grab. They do mention more money ending up being distributed through the football ‘pyramid but the obvious proviso is that it will go to them first and then get passed on to the ‘lesser clubs when they want to lure away the best players and thus reinforce themselves.
I just hope UEFA get serious and sanction the scumbags instead of finding some way to compromise with them.
224 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:08:16
225 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:12:01
226 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:17:43
Just say every body comes down hard and says no and basically ostracises these clubs.
Supporters of the other clubs in the pyramid probably don't care. We like watching our team.
But those 6 drive a huge amount of viewership and therefore commercial and TV revenue. Sky aren't paying anywhere near the same money if we promote 6 Championship clubs.
So the PL will have a choice of making money or losing money. Some clubs will be faced with making a principled decision that could send them bankrupt. We know how dependant clubs are on TV money.
I'm all for the principled stand. I'd love to see football knocked down a peg or two and go back to being more of a sport than a business, but I don't have a say. How many clubs are going to actually vote this down?
227 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:20:40
I hate myself for saying that. I wish there could be a stand against this, but there will likely be a middle ground compromise.
Unless, and I truly hope it is the moment, football for once stands up for itself.
228 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:28:27
Honestly, my overriding emotion is just sadness for the long-term, local and match-going fans of the six English clubs involved. They don't want this. This is confirmation that they're seen as little more than a meal ticket by their billionaire owners. No schadenfreude here: we all know that Everton could have been mixed up in this farce if we were a bit richer.
Where does this leave Everton?
In the short-term: probably in the Champions League. With the 12 clubs leaving the ECA, they certainly won't be involved in UEFA competition next season, currently leaving Leicester, West Ham, ourselves and Leeds as de-facto qualifiers. But I can't drum up much enthusiasm given the circumstances.
Longer-term: BMD is clearly under threat if the six English clubs are banned from domestic football. Their loss will have a huge impact on television rights deals and our future revenue streams. My hunch though is that they won't be expelled. The Premier League knows how important they are financially, and will do all they can not to slay the golden goose. I'm predicting middling point deductions and possible dismissal from domestic cup competition.
This is the gamble the six clubs have made: they've listened to the threats and hit the nuclear button by announcing it anyway. Unfortunately, I reckon they'll get away with it.
And the rich get richer. As it ever was.
229 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:35:08
That will be the compromise. The 6 won't compete in the domestic cup competitions.
That will be their "punishment".
230 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:40:19
That allows the FA and PL to make a stand... but it's a pointless one.
As Danny said above, I'd love to think this is the moment when football stands up for itself. But I fear we've gone too far down a road that won't allow those kind of principles.
A vote against this could considerably diminish Farhad's shareholder value. He's an investor. Could you even blame him?
231 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:46:32
Integrate the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish league into our leagues and fuck the 6 teams off. I for one wouldnt be arsed. I want football to give me the feeling it did 30 odd year ago and this could be the answer. Who cares if the so called top six (Spurs really) go because it will be boring as fuck in no time and if fans of the remaining 86 teams boycotted watching then the money would soon dry up.
Well done to the German teams but they are all 51% fan owned so I suppose it was never gonna happen there.
Once again youve got to hand it to the kopites, absolute shameless bellends
232 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:57:38
I am not familiar with the way American Sports franchises work, but was thinking, prior to seeing your post, that there is more than meets the eye in this proposal, and the ability of the said Clubs to implement such changes.
I think you are correct in the queries that you raise and the probable permutations that could arise if such moves are resisted or pecuniary action taken.
It seems a go it alone plan has been worked out , negotiated in various stages with parties or potential parties involved, agreed in some cases, and the Financial partners are in place, with ball park figures worked out.
It's going to have a impact. Financial gain for them and I don't care too much about the Clubs not involved.
233 Posted 19/04/2021 at 01:59:35
I get what you are saying about Spurs, but achievement is not what makes them 'prestigious' it is London. Top 6 in England, certainly is not top 6 in Europe especially in a league of 12 permanent fixtures, and 3 'guests'.
I may have misread your post. due to being on my 2nd bottle of wine! So, apologies if that is the case.
234 Posted 19/04/2021 at 02:07:47
But, more importantly, they're run by people that would happily sell off their family members if they thought there was money in it.
That's their appeal to this lot.
235 Posted 19/04/2021 at 02:09:59
236 Posted 19/04/2021 at 02:10:21
I never watch the Champion League.
237 Posted 19/04/2021 at 02:13:35
238 Posted 19/04/2021 at 02:28:24
I am a fanatical Evertonian but I watch many games weekly. It is competion that really matters not some overpaid adonis doing football tricks with the ball before he is tapped on the ankle and does multiple rotations while screaming out his agony.
The Continental teams need English football far more than we need them PROOF below
The CHAMPIONSHIP has become a far more exciting league because of the changing scenarios in the league The ups and downs of the teams ensures fair competion and uncertainty about who will go up or down. This may sound ridiculous but as a neutral I would prefer to watch Watford v Brentford in a game with everything on the line than Juventus v Athletico Madrid to see who can look best in a 0-0 draw.AND. the present Champioship attracts very good crowds.
I would have absolutely zero attraction watching teams in the proposed super league. As many others have said this is so "AMERICAN". Once they got their foot in the door they would only be happy if they could change all the rules,and make more money in a sport that they know NOTHING about. They just don't understand the culture and mind of the "normal" British fan. They do not realise that the supporters of Tranmere or Hartlepools are just as fanatical as those who follow any of those now "UNMENTIONABLE" six.
They also do not comprehend that the British Leagues will continue to flourish without them. Fortunes change in football. Those "Unmentionables all have money at the present time and in the case of Chelsea they were "jokes" before some ugly Russian came along, AND Tottenham have ONCE won the league sixty years ago.
Everton have spent more time at the top level than ANY team in the League. We have won enough to continue gloriously without the "Unmentionables".So if I can speak on behalf of the "86" remaining teams please LEAVE and don't come back. YOU ARE NOT NEEDED. Personally I hope the RS enjoy coming bottom of the new league. That could last for an eternity as you could never be relegated and once you are LAST it could be your divine destiny.
239 Posted 19/04/2021 at 02:32:56
240 Posted 19/04/2021 at 02:45:15
Just run down the six pariah PL clubs and look at those players. De Bruyne is the captain of the #1 national team in the world. Will he give up a chance to raise the World Cup for Belgium to play in this mess? I don't think so.
Will Kane, Sterling or Rashford turn their backs on England for money? Principled players who live to wear their country's colors? You tell me.
Will van Dijk toss away his Netherlands captaincy for this shit after all the bank he's made? Can't imagine it.
Will Alisson and Ederson, the first two truly great keepers Brazil has ever had, abandon their legendary national side (along with Firmino) a year before the WC to stick with their clubs and their big checks? They could never go home again.
And what about guys like Salah and Mane, who are literally the only hope for their nations to qualify for Qatar? They'll be considered national traitors too.
I just don't buy it, mate. I think if FIFA imposes a WC ban, every player I've just mentioned will bail on their English clubs so fast they'll leave just a vapor trail behind.
Same in Serie A. Cristiano is one of the wealthiest athletes alive. Think he'll stay at Juve and watch Portugal on TV in the WC? Not a chance in hell. Same with Lukaku. He's gonna pass up a possible WC Golden Boot for some extra cash? No way. No way.
241 Posted 19/04/2021 at 03:29:25
'Money doesn't grow on trees' we were told growing up, well I was, and that stands for all sectors, whether it be funded by Governments or private companies alike. There is no bottomless pit, and the money has to come from somewhere. Think of it as a circle, there is only so much than can go round in that circle, if one part has a lot, it only stands to reason that some other part of that circle will have a deficit.
The writing has been on the wall for some time, and let's face it, we all love the game, but 18 year olds (only a few) are millionaires and spend money like film stars on lavish luxuries just because they can. While not far away, another 18 year old has no job, no money, but may be not that far behind the lucky ones in terms of footballing skill. It's just that he hasn't been in the right place, at the right time, or had the connections and recommendations that the 'nouveau riche' counterpart has.
I am all in favour for these greedy Clubs and their owners be expelled from the League if it all goes pear shaped, but deep down we know, or doubt that will happen. It will all get brushed under the carpet, and they'll be welcomed back.
242 Posted 19/04/2021 at 03:30:03
There'd have to be some kind of revision of FFP and the said clubs would have to be capped on what they spent domestically, which means they'd have to put out a 2nd team from the one in the Super league to keep the premier league fair and competitive.
I think the FA will stick to the original statement and clubs will have to break away for this to happen. The other factor will be whether other clubs hold firm. PSG, Bayern and Dortmund have said no, at this stage, but will other clubs take the carrot and take the invite as one of the 5 clubs?! The clubs signed up to this are counting on that otherwise it will definitely fail if it will be the same teams every season.
Also, how could these invited clubs have any success when there would be such a a financial gulf between the super league and the domestic leagues?! And even if you did, it's a bit sickening if you finish above Spurs, but you get relegated.
This either has to be stopped or the clubs go it alone, play an MLS style league just play with themselves every week, which I think the owners would be fine about! The league would eventually fail cos that model goes against the ethos of the game
243 Posted 19/04/2021 at 03:58:22
I think many would!! Because the money on offer will be so crazy.
Anyway, screw them. Let them go and have their little hobby league!
244 Posted 19/04/2021 at 04:37:03
John, this ain't "SO AMERICAN" just because the owners of 3 of the clubs involved are Yanks -- who, of course, "know NOTHING about" the sport. Really, John?
Ian, by every press account and public statement over the past year and a half, the "instigators" are NOT John Henry and the Kroenkes and the Glazers, but the ayatollahs of Juventus and Real Madrid. They've been quite open about it. Try doing a little reading. Just a little. Facts are fun.
And Nick Page, since you like to throw the f-bombs around, I'll throw one your way. Kindly shove your fucking right-wing conspiracy theories. George Soros does not own any part of Spurs. Nor is he partnered with anybody who does. He teamed with Lewis on a finance play 20 years ago. That's it.
245 Posted 19/04/2021 at 04:51:07
Nick Page, Soros isn't involved at Spurs and Chelsea, and especially City have been the most reticent about committing. The city project isn't about making money. It's about prestige and it wouldn't surprise me if they now pull out of this proposed league
246 Posted 19/04/2021 at 05:08:48
Personally, I would hope that a newly devised Champions League would go back to the original European Cup model when football was a much more level playing field when a provincial club like Nottm Forest could win it. It was the start of the Champions League that started this 'closed shop' mentality of protecting financial incomes of the so-called big boys.
247 Posted 19/04/2021 at 05:46:50
248 Posted 19/04/2021 at 06:00:16
However, regarding my post (238), I do not apologise in the slightest way. I am not insulting Americans as individuals. I like the rise of the MLS, and we have a Team in Toronto, where I once resided. However, I am very concerned that so many teams in the UK have now been financed by multi Billionaires, including those from the USA.
I indicated that I appreciate the MLS but I do not want the MLS type of football strategy and management to ever come to Britain. I will be an Evertonian scouser for the rest of my life. I may have left Liverpool, but Liverpool never left me. I like promotion and relegation. I have followed the ups and downs of many teams for the last 70
years. I don't like the way the NFL is organised with little divisions that never change. Having said that, I do like the actual game and I am a Bills fan.
However, I am convinced that wealthy Americans are very much behind this ridiculous idea. This is not US-bashing. Just that you do not really understand the football culture that was given to me as a snotty-nosed 8-year-old. I actually knew the league when New Brighton had a team. I have two Canadian sons, John Everton and Andrew Goodison. My wife would not let me call our daughter Gwladys. We have all been back to Goodison many times. Everton and English Football are essential parts of my whole being.
As much as I appreciate your support for Everton, I do not want anybody from the USA to try to change our whole system of football. Sorry, but it is no different than some wealthy Brit trying to infiltrate and change the US sports system, whether it be Baseball, the NFL, or any other sport. What I said in #238 is exactly how I feel. I may not be right but it is my opinion.
249 Posted 19/04/2021 at 06:00:23
Of course, the irony here is that the Champions League was supposed to ward off the threat of a Super League. As were all the subsequent changes... and the ones due to be announced!
You know what would happen if we went back to Champions only?
It would be great... and then greed would leap up again and we'd follow this same path. Football is bound to eat itself.
250 Posted 19/04/2021 at 06:44:40
They will not right now be dramatically panicking and shrieking "OMG! We've made a terrible mistake".
The release of the idea (and some of the details) is testing the water - specifically gauging how supporters, the Premier League, Fifa, Uefa etc will react.
Not how they/we will initially react, but how they/we will actually and ultimately react (nb: they already know and understand that initial reaction will be outrage and anger).
This will (ultimately) be about resolve – theirs and ours.
Will we huff and puff and then... do nothing?
(By 'we', I mean everyone who could be negatively affected in some way by this move.)
Or will we be able to achieve what we rarely achieve in football, uniting for the greater good (nb: there was opposition to the Premier League; cash won).
Right now, the teams involved in the breakaway are bluffing or rather calling our bluff.
They're saying – "If we go ahead with this, you won't cut us out of your domestic leagues or cut us out of your World Cup or your European Championships or domestic cup competitions because you'll cut your own throats."
Imagine there was unity and resolve.... Imagine.
"These breakaway sides believe this move will make them much more money. Initially it might. But in the long term it won't. Teams breaking away will not be allowed to play in their domestic leagues. Effective immediately. They will not play for their international sides. Effective immediately. Players and agents should understand that 99% of footballers will not be playing in this league and we will do whatever it takes to protect the majority. Do. Not. Fuck. With. Us."(or words to that effect).
To coin a cliché, this is high-stakes poker.
251 Posted 19/04/2021 at 06:47:17
In fairness, the Spirt of Shankly and fan clubts/trusts for all 6 English clubs have utterly condemned this move, as have every football institution, ex-players and the media globally. If Fifa and Uefa hold their nerves and ban players from the new competition playing for their national teams then it is guaranteed to fail. In reality, I think it is a negotiation ploy by the 12 clubs to grab more power and their bluff should be called.
Ban them from their domestic leagues as well, and tell them to rejoin in National League 2 when they try to re-enter.
252 Posted 19/04/2021 at 06:53:37
253 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:00:11
254 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:01:22
The glory of the game is lost on them.
Here and other forums seem infested with accountants and financial experts jerking off about "amortization", the game and players ability being minor irrelevances. Plenty of Evertonians on that bandwagon and as such are as complicit as John Henry, Kroenke and the Glazers.
Fans can't bellow "We need more money" without owners looking at ways of getting it.
You reap what you sow – it's all your fault.
255 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:09:43
Furthermore, it's truly ridiculous to imply that the American owners don't understand the sport, or the concept of promotion and relegation. The Glazers have been Premier League owners for 15 years, Fenway and the Kroenkes for 10, and they've all had notable success, so they know what it's all about.
Yes, the Yank owners are supportive of this stupid thing and a big part of the problem. But blaming the whole idea on them is asinine.
256 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:11:15
If any good comes of this, it will really be the beginning of the end of them other shower when they want to come back and have Glasgow Rangers type embargos on them. Plus Man Utd wanting to play in a tournament on the other side of the world instead of the FA Cup. All these things set the rot sadly.
257 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:18:56
As an Evertonian who has long wished for a better financial situation at the club but would never support this betrayal of the game I implicitly refuse to accept any responsibility for it.
No, it is NOT my fault!
258 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:25:03
This super league is an American style model and I personally don't believe that there would have been this turn of events if the historic biggest 3 clubs weren't American owned, especially when they've come out in the past and said that they don't understand a league where their asset (club) could be be relegated.
Don't take it as some Anti American attack. I'm just calling it as I see it.
259 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:41:10
A business venture with a dream of earning vast amounts of money.
Thier dream has come to fruition
260 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:44:55
Can you imagine the impact on transfers?
Can you imagine the condescension we would face from the self-proclaimed elite (assuming Moshiri doesn't get us in by the back door)?
This is not equivalent to the Sky Premier League.
Maybe it's time to support Marine.
262 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:50:03
Now there will be stand off's, upfront bravado, behind the scenes negotiation and an eventual fudge that meets somewhere in the middle that both sides can claim victory on.
European football's equivalent of the Brexit process.
263 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:51:36
And when you write this: "Once they got their foot in the door they would only be happy if they could change all the rules,and make more money in a sport that they know NOTHING about"... I say that's bunkum. As I pointed out to Gavin, the current US owners have been in the Prem for more than a decade, and they know their shit. And they haven't tried to buy titles or change club nicknames/colors or sell chicken or any of the crap other foreign owners have pulled in England.
And when you point at the US owners for "changing our whole system of football" but ignore the British, Russian, Italian, Spanish, Chinese and Arab owners doing the same thing... I'm gonna call that Yank-bashing, and I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.
264 Posted 19/04/2021 at 07:56:55
If it fails to pull the TV audience and revenue then they will seek to go back to their home leagues. I don't see that kicking them out of their home leagues is anything more than emotive. If they wish to play midweek then you either tell them that their national fixtures, including Cup competitions, take priority over some "Super League" with the threat of penalties,or they should consider their position.
There is also the matter of the "extra" sides to make up the numbers and if other teams will join them if there is some sort of relegation.
The so called fan owned German teams will join. If 49% is owned by an individual, company or group then they only need 2 of the 51% of the fan content and they're in.
The French will do as they always do, wait until they see how the tide turns and the wind blows, similarly the Dutch although they may wait to join at a later date.
Now, imagine these clubs withdraw from their home leagues but the winners of such are invited into a knockout series with possible "relegation" candidates for a place in next years "Super League". Do you imagine Everton, as English Champions, would turn down the opportunity particularly if it is financially beneficial. We, the fans, might want them to but would the club's hierarchy, whose money is at stake, see it the same way?
It will probably all conclude with either the sanctioning of this "Super League" with a relegation system (as above para) but no guaranteed places for only certain clubs or, they will agree to giving these greedy sods a bigger slice of the TV revenue.
My own view is that, sooner or later, technology will be used for clubs to set up their own subscription TV broadcasting for the so called "bigger" clubs to take advantage of what they see as their greater following and appeal.
265 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:02:16
Also, I'm not aware that any US owner of a Prem team ever said they didn't understand a league that included relegation. Hard to believe that an American billionaire spending that much money for an asset would be that stupid. Care to post a link to the quote you're describing?
266 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:03:07
I see UEFA and FIFA putting a huge amount of pressure onto the national leagues and Football Associations to impose very heavy sanctions as soon as possible.
267 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:09:12
The mystique of the champions league is hoping to play against these historic, top clubs. If guaranteed to play them twice a season that mystique will soon wear off.
All the players of these clubs will have their contracts made essentially null and void and can leave on a free as no doubt every contract has performance related bonuses in relation to the Premier league and European success. They will have to be re-signed and you can bet your bottom dollar their agents will be after as much of that 3bn 'seed' money as they can get. It will soon disappear into the pockets of players and agents and not find its way down the football pyramid as they are suggesting.
Genuinely need to say you join this, you are banned from the Premier league. Yes, TV money will get hit but so what? Just pay the players less, go back to agents only being paid by the players and you'll probably save as much money as you lost anyway.
268 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:12:01
Glazers, Henry etc are venture capatalists.
Long term they have no interest in where a club ends up.
So long as the money keeps rolling in.
269 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:12:01
270 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:17:28
Also, just from my own experience working with Texas based companies, the frustration with the NFL sees many supporters much more passionate about College football. I'm an adopted Longhorns fan!
Now there is a degree of irony in that. Despite the NFL brand, college football in the US regularly plays in front of 60,000+ crowds and enjoys full TV exposure.
271 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:22:08
Its ironic that Evertonians are talking about the money in the game in terms of football ‘selling its soul. Dont forget, Everton were one of the founders of the money-go-round with our 60s success being based on the John Moores wealth. We were the ‘cheque book team in the eyes of the football world.
The Super League is arguably a natural continuation of a money-led process involving TV viewing through advances in information technology, and glitzy stadia that reflect commercial brands.
Perhaps Everton, with BMD and Usmanov involvement, will be a part of this process. Instead of playing the likes of WBA and Crystal Palace, it would be Real Madrid and Juventus.
People are saying that the motive is greed. Well, the motive is commercial profit, which has been the case for top football clubs for a long time.
272 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:24:04
273 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:28:21
Imagine an existence where only 1 team wins anything. There will be no cup competitions, no chase for European positions and from what I can make out no relegation as such, just 5 teams will need succeed in their own domestic leagues to be deemed acceptable by the so called super powers.
If Everton join that, I wouldn't be watching.
274 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:31:33
Where does it end, will it spiral out of control with clubs owing billion + that some people close to the game have suggested.
275 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:33:20
If the UK clubs are allowed to continue in national leagues the impact would be disastrous for every other club in the premier league for the following reasons:
1. They are awarded 3.5bn pounds just for being in it. This is then supplemented to the tune of 10bn in the first season. Thats each club.
The impact of this alone ensures they alone have access to the best players, they alone will dominate the national competitions.
2. Their presence under such circumstances in any national competition will DEVALUE every other club. DEVALUE the competition, DEVALUE the league.
3. The gulf between having and have not will become insurmountable for ANY other club.
4. The animosity between fans will significantly increase as a result. Arrogance breeds violence. No fan, no club is better than another.
5. They are no better than exhibition games. Only money is the common denominator. Not pride.
6. What cost a fan? every other week a game in Europe? Behind closed doors perhaps?
7. Its NOT FAIR to every fan, every supporter, its playing with a loaded deck. If they go ahead they CANNOT be allowed to play in a national competition.
8. They have brought the game into disrepute by their action. I wonder perhaps if this a ploy the day before a new format of CL is announced? To get what they want? either is distasteful.
9. Everton FC have already (previously) voted against a super league, but what choice do they have going forward?
10. Sanctions against players at these clubs AT THIS POINT are not fair. They are employed by the club, but going forward, anyone joining should do so knowing they personally face playing sanctions.
They are either prevented from going or kicked out, but either way they have done irreparable damage to themselves, the league, their players. Demonstrations are sure to follow..
276 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:36:10
277 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:39:20
In its current proposed format, Everton FC do not support the European Super League. We respect the integrity and competitive nature of the pyramid system and would never go against the wishes of our fan base by supporting such a counter productive initiative.
Get in there early and get overwhelming public support while twisting the knife in the 6 who have gone against their fans
278 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:40:40
279 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:43:29
An FA Cup giantkilling still captures the imagination no matter how hard the PL tries to negate that competition.
280 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:46:06
281 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:48:18
Fair enough let them all feck off. I give it 12 months before they come crawling back.
282 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:53:11
283 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:53:29
The questions are:
- will there be domestic and international viewers for this new league?
- what price will the premier league demand from the euro league clubs to play in the prem?
- could the prem survive without the rich 6? Possibly by opening the doors to the Glasgow clubs?
- would a more competitive champions league be viable without the Euro league clubs, where the likes of us and Villa play Sporting Lisbon and Ajax like in the good old days?
I doubt anyone really knows the answers but it does strike me as both a threat and an opportunity.
284 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:55:17
285 Posted 19/04/2021 at 08:57:13
This is not tribal this is wrong.
286 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:00:02
287 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:01:32
288 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:01:36
Let them all go. We might finish in the top 4...
289 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:02:21
290 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:07:07
291 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:07:12
However, it will never happen. The clubs will bottle it, as they did before with their “big Six”.
292 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:10:43
293 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:11:36
Obviously, I want this dreadful covid crisis to be over and done with as soon as possible, but can anyone guarantee it? Who knows what international travel will look like for a while - even within Europe.
And I've not even mentioned the principle of the whole idea - which stinks.
294 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:11:44
Interesting times. The lawyers will probably make more than the players.
The parallel I suppose, is the Kerry Packer cricket breakaway, albeit on a smaller scale when the money in the game was far less. That didn't end well. What I find especially hard to fathom is just how these clubs believe that this may be sustainable over time. Also, that it may be well received.
Football isn't about the top teams with shit loads of money who want to make even more shit loads. It's about Tranmere, Marine, Southport, Tiverton Town, etc etc and the millions of true supporters who have learned to love football at all levels and the players at all levels aspiring to climb ever higher.
Is this new league doomed to fail? I hope so but only time will tell.
295 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:13:39
296 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:16:12
297 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:16:18
I suspect there will be initial outrage then some sort of compromise.
I would be amazed if any sanctions were handed out. The premier league needs those clubs especially the shite and United.
298 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:17:57
299 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:18:29
I am neither an idiot nor naive because I found it inexplicable that Manchester City, Chelsea and Spurs joined in.
Unlike the American owned Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United, they are making enough money for their mega rich owners from existing PL and European revenues and will benefit from the contentious UEFA “wild card” Champions League qualification plan.
300 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:21:41
"Who wants to watch Villa v Everton as a top of the table clash?" they say. "Without the big clubs football will lose its appeal". Utter nonsense and revisionist bollocks. Whatever the new premier league format is there will be box office clubs (or big clubs, if you prefer) because of the very nature of competition.
Just because the new, improved, PL doesn't involve the Shite or Man City or ffs Chelsea or Spurs, it doesn't mean that it will be diminished in any way, shape or form. There are plenty of 'big' clubs waiting to take the places of these mercenaries. Winning things makes a club 'big' not some preordained and immutable right.
301 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:22:25
302 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:26:31
303 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:27:44
Although on that same theme, wasn't there talk that the new rules would mean English clubs would be required to increase the minimum number of homebased players from 8 to 12 in their 25 man PL squads?
304 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:27:58
They saw football as a business opportunity in which they could make money.
Every business always seeks to maintain its position of dominance in their particular sector. It does so by crushing any competition if it can.
This development should not therefore be a surprise. This is especially the case for clubs carrying large amounts of debt. For such clubs to lose their place in the current CL could lead to bankruptcy. Owners are therefore protecting their investment.
As a consequence of all of the above, I don't think yesterday's move is intended as a negotiating tactic.
305 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:28:52
306 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:35:41
I'm curious about the five qualifying teams each season. I can't see how that will work because I assume the five will have qualified for the CL in order to be considered for the SL so why would they give up a chance to win a major trophy for no chance of beating the kid who owns the ball.
Doesn't ring right.
307 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:35:47
The six clubs simply have to be kicked out if this goes ahead due to the ridiculous financial advantage the super league would give them. There cannot be any alternative because of this.
It would give a marvellous opportunity for other clubs to reestablish themselves in their place- us,Villa,Leeds etc. Allowing the Glasgow teams in would bolster the premier league but ruin the Scottish league so thats a difficult one- could they be two of the remaining clubs to be named? It has shades of the exodus of star players to the US in the seventies when Pele,Cruyff,Beckenbauer etc moved there for the money with their international days behind them. Would young players move to the super league if it meant no international opportunities? Ok, some would chase the money but like so many others I dont see the super league as being that attractive to supporters and as such it will cease to attract the cash required to make it viable.
I would like to think that Everton will come out with a statement denouncing this and categorically stating that we want no part of it.
This now gives the governing bodies the chance to clean things up, either scrap FFP or at least modify it so that it is a level playing field and take control back from these self centred clubs whose wish to guarantee themselves a permanent place in this super league is is truly reprehensible. This is not sport as it is intended and the clubs should be told in no uncertain terms that to proceed will end their association with the English game.
308 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:39:52
There was a lot of opposition to the EPL but once that was where the money went...
Methinks there is a compromise at the end of all this as it will certainly need buy-in from the big German & French clubs too.
Personally I have very little/no interest in competitions that Everton FC are not playing in.
309 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:40:18
310 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:43:18
311 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:44:17
The difference is the permanence and the grab for power.
From a PL perspective it needs stamping on. It feels like the Super League has been gradually working it's way through our defences. It's at the last man now - and we can't jockey any more. It needs to go two footed and take man, ball, the lot. If we miss now, there's nothing left.
Cave or compromise now and there's no limit to what that lot can do.
They've announced they're joining an illegitimate league. That's expressly against the rules. There should be unprecedented points deductions right now. If you're serious, you don't wait to see how hard the punches are before you land your own.
312 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:48:37
How on earth are they going to fit all these games in? They wont bother with the fa or league cup, not that that will bother them.
N.B Man Utd have now left the ECA. Does that mean they wont be allowed back in, and also Id kick them out of Europe now.
313 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:49:55
This has to be stopped in its tracks. If it is allowed to happen the domestic leagues will eventually wither and die. The five “special guests” invited to participate is in order to start a food fight. Divide and conquer. Can you imagine the scrap to get into this trillionaires club if only for one season?
Stand up now and ban them from all competitions before they ban the rest of us from the game we love.
314 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:53:08
Teams like Everton will benefit though. If West Ham, Leicester, Everton and Leeds qualify for the Champions League then so much the better. It will help attract players and generate more revenue.
I assume fans of Real Betis and Lazio are thinking the same thing.
315 Posted 19/04/2021 at 09:57:31
Sadly Im not sure what effect anyones opinion about this will have on the final outcome. At the end of the day, you will have the decision being made by those ‘honest organisations who run our game, with guidance from an array of lawyers, and most importantly, money men.
Personally, I always hope for the best, but given their track record, it may be that I could be disappointed. But Im open to being delighted!
316 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:00:08
So many issues here that work for and against the idea of a super league. I know it's said that the lawyers will have been all over this. But will they be on top of all the non-legal forces: the degree of determination of organisations such as the EPL and UEFA; the reaction of fans from the super league clubs themselves (including possible though unlikely refusal to buy sponsors' products); the "soft" power of politicians; the reactions from sponsors of these clubs.
317 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:01:23
318 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:04:01
Keep the bottom 3 and promoted Championship sides.
This unbridled greed and shameless anti competitive power grab needs to be snuffed out once and for all with proportional sanctions.
We do need an independent regulator like Gary Neville says. It must set out a charter that never allows competition to be diminished further.
The game needs protecting, or it will lose its heart and soul.
319 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:05:10
320 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:08:49
I have spent a couple of hours going through the handbook of the Premier League. Its an interesting document from all sorts of perspectives. Masses of details about the technical aspects of running a football club and putting on a game. A good reference point...It even has, what I have re-named the 'Goodison clause' on the matter of obstructed views:
“A club will not be penalised for a failure to provide a full and clear view of the whole pitch under these Rules if the permanent infrastructure of its Stadium is such that this is not possible (for example due to the presence of stanchions supporting the roof of a stand)...”
You can see immediately why the oligarchs and billionaires (from wherever they originate) hate the principles of free competition.
The current arrangements for distribution of broadcast revenue is in accordance with the pot divided by 210 to make individual shares. The champions get 20 shares but everyone gets a good allocation right down to lower mid table. For example, 8th gets 13 shares, 13th gets 8 shares. The relegated clubs get 3, 2 and 1 respectively. I would argue that this aids competition though I imagine players dont get particularly motivated about earning another share for their club.
There is no doubt that what is being implemented as we speak is a very serious attack on the competitiveness of football.
The first point to note is that each club playing in the Premier League in any particular season has a single share. A relegated club in effect hands over its share to the promoted club taking its place. So each club in theory is equal.
Secondly, the rules define the relationship between the clubs and the league. Specifically it is stated that membership of the league constitutes an agreement to be bound by and comply with not only the laws of the game of football and the Football Association Rules but also the statutes and regulations of FIFA and UEFA.
There is also a good faith clause:
“In all matters and transactions relating to the League each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with the utmost good faith.” Bit of a joke in the circumstances.
It would be truly wonderful to simply have a vote to kick these people out of the PL and maybe at the same time reform dramatically the relationships with the lower divisions and perhaps have some sort of British league.
There are two potential ways of doing so it would seem.
Any serious breach of the Rule Book results in an independent 3 person tribunal sitting to hear the case, ascertain guilt and set the punishment which can range from fines to points deductions and in extreme cases expulsion.
The second approach is a membership vote. A majority of not less than three quarters of the members is required. Clearly 6 out of the 20 teams in the PL would vote against their expulsion. Maybe that is why a team that has not been successful in its domestic championship for 60 years has been selected over Ajax and Benfica (not to mention Everton with four league championships since 1961).
The consequences of expulsion are delightful:
"Upon a club casing to be a member under rule B.5 other than because of relegation the registrations of its players except loans shall vest in the league and can be transferred as the league shall think fit.. and receive the transfer fee..and have the power to make a grant to either or both of any club to which ‘compensation fees are owed by the former member and the former member."
I suspect that the expulsion route will be difficult to put it mildly. However, there are 3 possible lots of sanctions which can be applied on a rolling basis. First, through UEFA and FIFA which will be falling over themselves to protect their own herds of cash cows..including the international bans many have talked about on this thread. Secondly, points deduction season by season..to continue as they get relegated. Thirdly, strict fair play rules to make it impossible for them to use their initial 350 million euros domestically and further points deductions and fines if they fail to comply.
Well that's 2 hours of my life I won't get back. Back to the day job.
321 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:10:10
The reason these rich and powerful clubs are happy to join this league is simple with greedy agents and even greedier players they need as much income as they can. When you have agents openly declaring that their players want a guarantee of £500,000 per week and one claiming his client wants £1 million a week then clubs who want to sign these type of players have become a prisoner to their own mismanagement and greed.
My main concern is how will this effect Everton, obviously the money and the better players will all move to this new league, so will Usmanov and Moshiri still see building a new £500 million stadium be viable. Given the fact that the revenue from Sky has underpinned most Premier league clubs for years, with Sky along with Amazon and Netflix bidding for the rights to show the games from the new league how much will they be prepared to invest in Premier league games. I see the national leagues around the world are initially saying any player who plays in the new league will not be allowed to play for their Country, well it didnt deter the cricketers who joined the Kerry Packer league, and practically without exception every top player joined that new league despite being banned from playing for their country. So while in an ideal world the players would love to play for their country I think most will accept it as a price worth paying.
322 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:14:26
Yes you would need 14 clubs to support or defeat any motion. Now that might be very interesting!
323 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:15:38
324 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:17:08
I wasn't necessarily looking for another reason to hate/loathe/despise L*******l Football Club but I'll happily take it.
325 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:19:45
326 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:21:19
Christine has a 'gut feeling' !. I just wonder are we not all just a bit peeved that Everton have not been included? I wonder what our reaction would be if we were one of 'them'?
Just asking. I'm dead against the whole shebang!!
327 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:23:48
See Bayern, Dortmund and PSG have told them to jog on . maybe there will be something left for those not involved after all. That being the case I would be quite happy for them to feck off.
Brian re the new ground... . has the point of no return already been passed ?
328 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:23:48
Yup things change. So, RIP Liverpool, RIP Man Utd, RIP Man CIty, RIP Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea. It will take a while to settle down, but I'm happy to be fighting for the PL title with Villa, Leicester, Leeds, West Ham etc, and in the European Cup with Bayern, Ajax, Benfica, Roma and all the other big names of my youth.
Will we be attracting the likes of Richarlison to play for us? Honestly, I don't know and, honestly, I don't give a fuck. Was
it any less exciting winning the title in the 80s with the team we had then, than watching the "household names" we have now play their turgid shit under our "world class" maanger?
The only big thing about the Big Six, is the size of their pockets and of the owners' egos. I feel terrible for their fans (except the RS obviously) because they're having their history, integrity, and place in the community ripped from them. But it's up to them to stop it happening.
329 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:25:20
330 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:26:44
Gary Neville is employed by SKY and he would have to accept that his employer helped to create the money monster. The European Super League venture is just the next step in the process.
I hope it's not too late to say stop to the madness but I fear that the train may have already left the station.
If, Everton were an established top 6 team I would like to think that they would not join the venture if asked.
331 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:27:07
332 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:27:40
333 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:29:08
Apologies, went off on a historical tangent there.
334 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:30:06
Either way will be utterly ruinous for football in the short and medium term. This is a slow motion car crash being played out in front of us, and it's been going on for decades.
It was always going to end up here. Either way, things right now are pretty much fucked. How do the economic projections stack up for BMD now???
What a world.
335 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:30:11
Big club my fucking arse!
336 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:32:23
That was an uncomfortable read and as you say, Everton is and always will be our main concern. However, I do not see any reason why Everton will not continue to fill their new stadium as most blues I know would go and watch them play in the Conference league never mind a new Premier league. The cost, well it will always be loaded onto EvertonFC, the docklands area needs the new stadium and after government approval I would be surprised that this fails to happen.
Teams have come and gone over the past 5 decades that I have gone to Goodison, big teams like Forest, Blackburn and Wednesday have all withered and big teams have come back like Villa and Leeds. So obviously big teams will arise, its the circle of life.
If the Premier League stays strong and does not "bow" to the big six then I can still see a strong league that will provide strong competition in the ongoing CL games.
337 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:32:54
Sky sports are one horrible company.
338 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:36:53
339 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:41:03
340 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:44:49
This was my take to football fans in general on the super league story and I don't care if it ruffles a few feathers.
People are not going to like this but I speak genuinely and if people are man enough to admit it, they'll know where I am coming from.
When supporters are following clubs that oringinate 200 miles (and more) from their own front door, it makes a mockery of the actual sport and gives these ruthless businessmen every reason to expoit it.
Where is the local pride in following clubs that are hundreds of miles from you and lets have it right, Man U and Liverpool fans buy from touts that exploit their day out every home game so what is a ruthless businessman from overseas going to do?
I also can't believe how excited people have got over Gary Neville calling for things he knows the Premier League won't do.
If they relegated United he'd have no job.
341 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:45:49
342 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:46:55
Spurs are clearly a powerful force in world football! Of course the sacking of their manager is of interest to the whole football world.
His sacking was as inevitable as the ESL!
343 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:48:01
344 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:48:35
Does that not speak volumes ?
345 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:52:38
The statement/press release last night was pretty conclusive. This is happening boys.
... What the landscape for those left out will look like afterwards is our main concern.
346 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:53:48
Max Aaron's for example.
Would he want to leave Norwich ? Does it make Everton a more attractive option as one of the potentially remaining "bigger clubs". Can you, at 21, risk isolation for the financial returns it may bring? What of transfer values ?
So much more is created from this announcement once you dig a little deeper.
347 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:54:57
In a lot of Liverpool fans cases, stood by the sides of scousers they wouldn't give the time of day to away from football.
In almost all cases I know, its always been jumping on the bandwagon through either admiring a certain player or a clubs success.
If there is no local pride, which is why it all started, then how is it a sport?
Linfield are poor but Irish fans are willing to fund United and Liverpool 100s of miles away. Why?
Weird clingy people that need meaning in their lives I think and they'll all be crying now because an America dictates what their club does.
348 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:57:18
You lead me onto a point I have made previously about the Premier Leauge post Covid and is probably even more pertinent with regards to the self-declared Super League. They don't need the match going traditional fan who eats at the Goodison Supper Bar, watches the match and heads to their local after the match.
Primarily, they just need to make sure their product is being consumed on the screens throughout south east Asia and beyond. Sorry to borrow a much used phrase, but then they just need to attract enough (and there will be enough) happy clapping corporate or tourist spectators (I won't call them fans), to resemble some form of atmosphere. Given the recent manner in which Champion's League fixtures have been played, even the location need not matter. In their warped minds, football can be something without the fans. Sustainable? To be seen.
349 Posted 19/04/2021 at 10:59:26
350 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:01:02
There are clubs that will never get bigger and never complain while the ones with everything want more and more.
With all the bandgwagon glory hunter phoneys in this country, its hardly a suprise that a ruthless overseas owner will take advantage.
Just like touts, talksport, BT and Sky do.
351 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:03:03
352 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:04:29
353 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:04:50
354 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:04:53
Despite all that, they were able to hijack control of the game and line their own pockets from football for thirty years.
What is to stop this ESL group from doing the same? They are in no way different to those greedy Premier League founders decades ago. Those owners and spivs succeeded; why wouldn't this?
As far as coups go, it appears to be a tried and tested formula they're using here. These 12 clubs will need to be either accomodated with more money - appeasement anyone? - or excommunicated. Either will be absolutely ruinous for football in the short and medium term future. This is horrendous news.
Even at present interest rates, the commercial case for new stadium finance would appear to be untenable. Rocks in a pond have a ripple effect - this is like a mountain into a blow up pool.
355 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:05:21
They'll get a lifetime membership of the CL without the worry of having to qualify each season and other wonderful benefits.
This looks like a serious attempt to gain leverage.
356 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:05:26
357 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:06:52
358 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:07:03
"As diversion tactics go, Spurs seem to have come up with a belter there".
359 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:08:25
The owners of these clubs believe they're morally right here. The majority of football fans around the world actually want to watch "their" club playing Barcelona every week, not Brighton, and they give zero fucks about the communities, the histories, the geography of Liverpool or Spurs or Chelsea. The owners are serving the wider fan base. The ordinary domestic fan is paying the price of globalisation.
360 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:10:11
361 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:10:43
362 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:13:25
Thing is - Spurs dont need to worry about qualification for the CL now so its not a gamble.
363 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:13:33
364 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:16:17
365 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:16:58
One approach would be to televise all matches on a free (or very low cost) high quality streaming channel. This would make advertising on the channel very attractive, especially to global brands (say, Apple, HSBC, Google, Nike) and give huge penetration into markets everywhere.
A second, more negative, approach would be to launch a whole raft of damaging comparisons - “European Soccer League for football as legitimate as Joe Bidens presidency”, “Watch the has-beens who couldnt stand competition”.
Start a real European league to run in parallel with national leagues. This could start with all the teams from the top couple of leagues of each country playing in a series of ten team Euro-leagues with the top three or four being promoted. Over a few years a new series of international leagues would emerge.
This would replace the Europa League, Champions League and probably one or two cup competitions, but it would be marvellous to see a genuinely open competition where West Ham, Brentford and Preston NE would also get their European trips to Frankfurt, Nice, Malaga and so on.
366 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:19:10
'The Original Greed is Good League' (aka, the premier league) and its bigger ne'r do well Uncle the - 'More Greed is even better European Champions League' are all now wringing their hands and going 'Oh waily, waily waily' about Injustice and infamy from the depths of what passes for their 'Moral High Ground.'
It's enough to make a fucking cat laugh...as sanctimonious hypocritical shite goes this stuff is gold medal.
"A joint statement by the Football Association, Uefa and the Premier League said that they were “united in our efforts to stop this cynical project” which is “founded on the self-interest of a few clubs at a time when society needs solidarity more than ever. This persistent self-interest of a few has been going on for too long — enough is enough."
Then from sky who also...just by chance caused all this and nowstand to lose their golden geese...
"It's pure greed; they're imposters,” Neville said. “The owners of Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester City, they are nothing to do with football in this country.
"Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham aren't even in the Champions League. And they want a God-given right to be in there? They're an absolute joke.
"The time has come now to have independent regulators to stop these clubs from having the power base. Enough is enough."
Gazza mate, (you self serving tosser) enough was enough in 1992.
That said, I hope they come down on them like a ton of bricks.
367 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:21:13
Once you go beyond the greed involved in the PL and CL, why would the average fan care if you add one more zero to the bank balance.
368 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:23:22
369 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:24:32
370 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:25:09
371 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:25:34
It will be interesting to find out how many clubs knew about this, you can't keep something as big as this a secret until the last minute.
On Mourinho... I quite like the man TBH and I think he is a man of integrity despite his posturing.
I just wonder if he's expressed his disgust and dislike of the super league to the board and they've sacked him on the basis of that.
372 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:26:25
For those who were still holding onto hope that this was a gambit, this and last nights statement blows that theory out of the water. This is already a done deal. Its happening so good riddance to the whole rotten lot of em.
And For all of Skys faux outrage it wouldnt surprise me if they are involved if you dig deep enough. After all... . theyve got form.
373 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:29:38
This however is a step too far in the spirit of competition. Protected to the degree they will always be in the club regardless. Even the Champions League doesn't afford that shameless entitlement.
And although the Premier League over the years has seemed like a club of few with other making the numbers, it has provided competition. People mention Leicester, but at the other end, there have been some big name casualties. Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester City and Aston Villa all suffering relegation. Not spared it because of their name or stature. We even tried our best on 2 occasions, getting out of jail by virtue of a domino falling-like Wimbledon keeper and, in hindsight, a goal that never was for Bolton Wanderers.
374 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:30:04
Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior mens first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League;
L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League;
L.9.3. the F.A. Cup;
L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield;
L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or
L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member.
375 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:31:12
Micky Norman, if this farce is allowed to develop that is exactly how football will end up.
376 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:34:47
Either way all this is bad for Everton. This is going to impact the funding of our new ground.
377 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:36:44
378 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:38:18
Sums up THFC.
Back on topic. I've tried to read all through this before posting but every time I get near the end I refresh and there's 10 more posts to read so it's taken an age! Some really interesting points being made from different perspectives but the common denominator, to a man, everyone posting is against the idea of an ESL (unless I've missed someone).
I think John Boon way back at about 238 has come closest to my mindset.
I won't be even slightly upset if the so called "Super Six" leave and never come back. We still have 86 competitive teams who will continue to provide football for their doting fans.
Precisely, John. So long as the leagues of the respective countries can continue to flourish financially, and I think they will, the departure of the protagonists from the EPL won't be missed except by their own fans of course for whom (the genuine ones) I actually feel quite sorry. Even RS. I'm sure we've all got some RS mates of our own who aren't twats.
I have been a blue, supporting Everton for 50 years, ever since we moved to Merseyside but Everton were not my first love. I started out as blue, for sure, but following a second devision club back then and my enjoyment of the match was exactly as it is now. The main difference being I could go to every home game by just turning up and paying at the turnstile whereas now it is nigh on impossible to get to matches. A season ticket is a non starter living way down south now and most of my watchng the Blues is at away games. Speaking personally, a benefit of Covid for me has been being able to watch every Everton game live on tv rather than battling with erratic obscure streaming.
So, concurring with John, there remains the rest of the entire football league with fans who enjoy the game and supporting THEIR team watching what I would call real football. The bulk of the revenue propping up this venture is probably going to be coming from the far east and U.S with a healthy but smaller subscription from Europe, supporters who will pay to watch their household names ply their skills and I can envisage virtually every match looking like a sanitised exhibition match. I mean, even now, how much excitement is generated by the Champs league?
Tbh, I would not miss one of the six English clubs if they were booted out of the PL other than having the opportunity to beat them (Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs - 2x) My enjoyment of the game does not come from watching them particularly, so I would let them just fuck off with their greed and glory chasing fans, enjoy their exhibition matches and the occasional thriller, and let the rest of us get on with what we enjoy. The proviso being, as I said before, that the finances and structure of the existing leagues from all countries hold up and aren't decimated.
Has any statement been made yet by any managers does anyone know? One wonders wether Mourinho might have viewed an opinion in the past few days.
EDIT - Just seen Danny's post which appeared as I was composing this. Interesting. Could be the first of others. I hope Jose did just that.
379 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:39:02
The dominance of the richest clubs is nothing new. The gap has got wider as the sums involved became more obscene, but at least there was still the dream.
Leicester did the unimaginable ( they were hardly underfunded mind) to prove everything is possible. This move screws all that over.
I would understand it more if it was a full breakaway. No domestic commitment. The potential for TV rights across the world is huge. Every where east of Europe gets to watch football in prime time evening slots on dart and Sunday. But to desire to remain in the domestic competition when the revenue they will generate from a closed competition is just bellendery of the highest order
380 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:39:56
In a statement on Monday, Dortmund chairman Hans-Joachim Watzke said that the members of the European Club Association (ECA) had met on Sunday evening and expressed "a clear opinion to reject the foundation of a Super League".
He added that the two German clubs on the ECA board, Bayern and Dortmund, had taken "100 percent" the same position "in all discussions".
381 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:42:48
Sounds like total shite Danny, but I thank you for reporting it. Everything around Mourinho has to be viewed fairly cynically; the man is obsessive about how he has cultivated his reputation. He clearly has a "spin doctor" or three in his camp.
It hasn't escaped me Jose has managed no less than five of the clubs trying to found this so called Super League. His fingerprints are no doubt all around it.
382 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:44:09
Watching Spurs, Arsenal and the RS finish near the bottom of their lauded ESL would be fucking hilarious!
The schadenfreude on TW and must club sites would be massive.
383 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:48:55
384 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:49:09
Class from the Germans. If Bayern aren't in, there is negotiating to be done. They're forcing the hand of UEFA in my opinion.
385 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:51:58
386 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:52:32
“The elitism is driving me mad,” he said. “You have to be careful what you wish for in football. I think they (the Super League clubs) will put the sort of elite players out in the so-called Super League and the Premier League will be devalued, and it shouldnt be. Some of the toughest games when I was playing for Everton and Manchester City were against teams who had come up and been promoted, and the atmosphere was great.
“There is a devaluing of the domestic league which I hate. There should always be an aspiration to get to the elite. Burnley were going out of business a few years ago and are now a Premier League side. You have to have that dream, the tradition, the heritage of these football clubs. To have an elite 12 or 20, it doesnt sit right with me.
“Its all money. Real Madrid have massive debt, Barcelona have massive debt, Florentino Perez, the president of Real Madrid, has driven this. I love the competition of football, and I love the fans being there. If you have an elitism? Nah. Not for me.”
387 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:53:40
Then Lance Armstrong every medal and title from every current player and member Club of The Twatish Twelve (TTT pat pending) and award them to the runners up...even if you have to go down the lists to the preliminaries.
Then start really getting tough.
388 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:54:10
Some proper "ooof" quotes there. If he was a prosecuting lawyer, the defence would be squirming!!
389 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:55:51
Fair play to them, but a 12-3 split is not a good start for the UEFA camp. Those three spots will presumably be dangled elsewhere. Rangers? Ajax? Galatasaray? Benfica? Monaco?
The six English clubs out of twelve confirms my earlier hypothesis the really big clubs were desperate to get a large income stream in Euros to hedge against likely sterling depreciation. It's hard to see further English clubs being added when they represent six from twenty to begin with though?
The breakaway league concept has a fairly sound plan at this stage and the room to gain further leverage by adding extra members. This has too much momentum now to come to a clean stop; there will be fallout.
390 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:57:27
In another Leeds tweet, Leeds were described as facing "European Greed League side", Liverpool tonight in the Premier League! 😂
391 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:57:42
I fully understand that those USA players will be feeling national pride and want to play in the WC, but MONEY has power and pull all of its own.
These nasty breakaway clubs will be offering bribes all over the place and young Pulisic et al will be tempted by Emperor and Darth Vader's dark side of the force.
392 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:59:15
The best companies I worked for were American, Arthur Andersen (years before the accountancy firms greed wrecked it), Merrill Lynch (a total snake pit, but you knew exactly where you stood with pretty much everyone), Citicorp (another one where there was pretty much open fighting between divisions but zero hypocrisy) and a couple of startups. I loved visiting Chicago (still my favouriteUS city), New York, LA and San Francisco, and Raleigh NC and lots of places in between (however, I loathe Washington which strikes me as like Johannesburg but without the culture and feeling of safety).
When I used to visit a lot, the NFL was probably the biggest TV sport, but I learned that while many, if not most, American sports fans enjoyed professional football and supported a reasonably local team, most of them were only enduringly loyal to their college teams. One colleague amazed me when he told me his school - University of Tennessee - had a stadium which held over 100,000 and where your best chance of getting a season ticket was to inherit it from your father! I had never even heard of the University of Tennessee (though I assumed there probably was one) and its hardly the first state youd think of.
So I sort of reasoned that Americans probably have a sort of dual loyalty in sport. One - which is like our attachment to Everton - is life long, where success or failure are not factors in our adherence and is never changed. The other is almost more like an attachment to a brand of phone - Apple v Samsung v Huawei (haha!) etc which is a combination of convenience (my iPhone works nicely with my iPad and iMac...) and genuine choice, but is no more permanent than was my serial buying of Macdonalds rather than Burger King or Wendys.
This two-kinds-of-loyalty thing is fine. One is serious and permanent, the other is essentially transactional. This seems a sensible, rational and perfectly honourable position to have.
There is, however, a most unpleasant strand in some aspects of corporate America exemplified by the likes of Goldman Sachs, MacKinsey Consulting, Enron, the New York Times and maybe now even the once wonderful Boeing with the 737Max where lobbying, political bribery and outright criminality are perfectly OK as long as the revenue stream continues. Sadly, it is this strand of corporate US practice we see in the Manchester United / Liverpool / Arsenal ownership and management.
It is the latter type of US business I really want not to see running football. The sort of thing we have seen over the past few years in the technology-political-media rats nest which appears to be completely divorced from truth, honesty or legality and now appears to run the country entirely for the benefit of oligarchs and supported by mob rule.
393 Posted 19/04/2021 at 11:59:31
394 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:02:26
As soon as I had my license Id be driving up nearly once a month to goto Goodison, about a 12 hour round trip. Now living in the states, Ive got up at ungodly hours religiously to watch the games and spent thousands on traveling back to watch them live. But as I dont have a scouse accent or have lived in the city, its ridiculous that Im even a blue??
395 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:07:12
Its a closed shop already but we have sections that think we can spend less than the top 6 and compete with them.
Kristian you can do what you want I just find it weird and I am giving the reasons people exploit the game.
I'd have supported Blackpool coming from Blackpool but your choice.
396 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:15:00
397 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:17:17
398 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:21:01
399 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:23:05
400 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:23:39
"These clubs are not just great global brands - of course they're great global brands - they're also clubs that have originated historically from their towns, from their cities, from their local communities, they should have a link with those fans, and with the fan base in their community." Mr Johnson said the six Premier League clubs involved "must answer to their fans" before deciding to launch the breakaway competition.
Mr Johnson said the six Premier League clubs involved "must answer to their fans" before deciding to launch the breakaway competition.
401 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:28:52
402 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:29:55
403 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:36:04
404 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:37:55
People may not like Simon Jordans opinion but I think hes the only pundit willing to be realistic through our mainstream media.
And hes sees right through Jargon hes probably used himself before today.
405 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:38:23
I have had about four hours sleep as I just could not get the break away of the SIX UNMENTIONABLES out of my mind. However since arising from my slumber I was able to read the 100 plus posts since then and I feel more than ever that it is an American style structure that the dreadful six are trying to bring to the "British "game.
It would appear that MOST posters feel the same so for one definitely last time " I am not anti American but I DO feel that it is the Billionaire Americans who are who are foremost in trying to change our structure"
AND I do hope that the DESPICABLE six leave and let the other 86 teams continue to enjoy what has been around for 150 years. No more from me but as my dear old long departed mother used to say "You always want to have the last word ". It must be the scouser in me.
406 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:39:10
Yes, unlikely I know, and they'd go nuts at playing at our ground, but just offer them a ten year agreement until they're up and running. All the ex-players and RS heroes like Fowler, Dalglish, Rush etc could get behind it, Klopp could manage it. Let the owners keep their Liverpool FC with its international fan base and see how long it lasts without the backing of the local fans. Who would really own the history of the club, the trophies, the highs and the lows? The reborn fans' Liverpool, or the plastic one playing an endless loop of meaningless games against Barcelona?
407 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:40:30
408 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:41:48
409 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:41:59
Are you being serious there?
410 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:42:58
No messing about. Get these 6 clubs out now. They would shit themselves.
If the Premier League don't act immediately other clubs may be tempted to leave in the future.
I won't miss them. They have ruined the game with all this money rubbish. The Premier League will prosper without them. GET RID NOW
411 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:45:55
412 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:46:22
Kudos to the majority of our neighbours, they also hate the idea of this super league.
413 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:47:40
414 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:50:06
415 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:50:19
416 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:50:32
417 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:52:56
418 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:53:22
Meanwhile I like this from a French website:
“If this NBA-like tournament is to become reality, it will increase suspense… teams like Ajax, Porto, Roma or Napoli will experience the thrill of reaching the final stages of the Champions League and will actually have a chance to win it. This would also mean that some legendary European teams could experience a second wind – can we dream of seeing Glasgow Rangers, Dynamo Kyiv or Panathinaikos lift a European Cup in the next few years? Can we picture Leicester or West Ham as the next Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest of the 2020s or 2030s? Yes, we can. And thats exciting.”
419 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:56:18
420 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:57:26
421 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:58:02
422 Posted 19/04/2021 at 12:59:09
Would the Premier League really be weaker without the so called "Big 6"? I'm sure players would want to jump ship if there was a potential to be banned from playing in World Cups, European Championships, UEFA club competitions, FA cups etc. The "Big 6" will weaken, the other PL clubs will get stronger and the competition will be even more competitive.
If these clubs compete in BOTH the ESL and a Premier League it would be grossly unfair. Their squads will only get stronger with the extra revenue, the PL will get weaker as a result, and the fixtures will be dictated by the "elite".
My plea to FIFA, UEFA and the English FA would be this. Exclude the Big 6 from the PL, Championship, League 1 and League 2, FA Cup etc, Champions League, UEFA cup etc NOW. Stop relegation from this seasons PL. Promote 6 teams from all leagues below (including the National League). Then Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, etc can get their wish and start on their suicidal venture. If they want to rejoin later down the road? Fine. You can start off and climb that ladder back from the SherpaVan-Tampax league
423 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:00:47
This proposal for a Super League is arguably simply yet another manifestation of the massive amount of money in elite football, something which ordinary people can do something about by walking away from it. This is opportunism by a rich minority advantaging from the CHOICES of ordinary people. Thats why I consider it a small issue.
424 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:03:00
I would rather share a sleeping bag with Elton John than share a ground eith them
425 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:04:23
The game today is a spit in the face from below the top 4. Fans are on the phones talking about Greed like Greed was discovered today.
I listen these days just to stay ahead of the closed minds and dead heads around us. The majority are reactive and let media do their thinking.
Greed is a subject now like its never been a problem 🙈
426 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:05:54
Which non league club do you support ?
427 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:06:40
John it may be that they are also believers in free market economics as well as American. As is Abramovich presumably, given the source of his wealth, and the people who run City, for whom their football expenditure is basically a rounding error, in any case.
Its the philosophy that unites them with the other owners, perhaps, rather than their nationality.
Just trying to help.
428 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:08:11
Elton is a Watford fan remember!
429 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:12:34
430 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:13:09
Very little, he seemed to think.
The McNulty solution would be an annual windfall tax of all of their profits. They must pay as a result of the benefits derived from the privilege of being based in this country.
The rich owners would be off faster than rats up a drainpipe.
I wonder if the unintended further benefit might mean our neighbours moving, lock, stock and barrel to Norway?
431 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:15:23
432 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:16:15
433 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:17:03
For my twopenneth, I reckon H is either a man or a woman and possibly a Police Officer or possibly not.
434 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:20:35
435 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:23:17
436 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:23:56
Some super six traitors players are apparently unhappy about being banned from international football.
437 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:24:26
Aside from the money and business approach, this is the lurking problem we have had for decades in building our game from the top down. The elite benefit whilst the rest feed off the scraps as they trickle down. Our grass roots at the very bottom of that food chain is neglected and in poor shape. Then we bemoan the fact our kids aren't good enough, so throw money at the problem to temporarily fix the roof at the top. Meanwhile, the foundations are creaking. Untreated subsidence with cracks everywhere. As some have eluded to here, it's not necessarily a new thing and can be traced as far back as the 60s.
It is no surprise to me that the Germans (for now admittedly) have refrained from this. Their system is built on solid foundations from the bottom up. They understand and value what makes them and actively promote grass roots. We just focus on winning the next Premier League game and have no concern for the pyramid in reality.
Clubs need to reconnect with the communities that make and made them what they are. I mean no disrespect to the sterling efforts of initiatives such as Everton in the Community, but engage to facilitate the next generation of footballers. Charity work is admirable but all of our clubs could do a lot more to support and enable grass roots football. Boxing clubs in Liverpool help produce fighters and teach young people the virtues of sportsmanship and life values along the way. We, and we're not alone, just seem to wait and hope to get lucky for the next half decent kid to present themselves to us.
I find myself apologising again for another rant. I'm actually off sick today but this has irked me. I'm probably being a foolish football romanist, but maybe, just maybe, this is the moment we can reset, given the apparent universal outrage at this move.
438 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:24:38
439 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:27:31
Greed has always existed but I think its more apparent now than at any time in the modern era in the UK. Every day corruption and greed is being reported regarding our governments cronyism. The gap between rich and poor is now greater than it has ever been in the 20th century. Vital workers are offered derisory pay increases and working people have had their rights taken away all because of greed. People are starving because of greed.
The reason most EPL football clubs have billionaire owners is because they present a massive money making opportunity not because they love the clubs they own.
440 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:43:27
441 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:44:19
I agree that the other 14 clubs must demand the expulsion of the six, but only after the remaining PL fixtures and the two domestic cup finals are completed.
None of the three domestic trophies would then be awarded to the winners with the exception of Leicester if they won the FA Cup.
The six would also be banned from qualifying for the two European competitions, the places being taken by the highest finishers from the other 14 clubs.
Assuming La Liga and Serie A carry out the same threat, Real Madrid, Juventus and the three American-owned PL clubs could quickly find themselves out on a limb.
442 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:48:00
443 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:52:20
444 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:55:39
445 Posted 19/04/2021 at 13:55:43
We are part of a league where Man U and Liverpool get FFP brought in to secure the rules they had been breaking for years and to stop anyone else becoming a Man City or Chelsea. And what did anyone say or do?
For years I bat on about this and get snide replies or ignorance to it all as if the minority is going crazy.
I remember hearing Peter Hitchens state that the Majority often get everything wrong, I think we just realise too late.
Our neighbours laugh at us with 25 year songs and no trophies after they were almost bankrupt not so long ago.
Thats what we are up against and it gets bigger every season and some fans think our manager and average players are not fighting against the powers everytime we play.
I've tried to get loads of people to ask more questions, stand up for our clubs, even fans of other clubs I speak to but nothing happens til trendy Gary Neville speaks a load of passionate shite he doesn't belive himself.
If Gary Neville thought United and Liverpool would be punished he'd collapse in shock. Its ok shouting things that won't happen.
446 Posted 19/04/2021 at 14:06:51
447 Posted 19/04/2021 at 14:11:09
Gary Neville generally talks shite, and this particular episode wont make me view him in a different light. Similar with the other pundits, they can fuck off with their false morality when it suits them.
448 Posted 19/04/2021 at 14:23:59
Have I missed anybody?
449 Posted 19/04/2021 at 14:27:57
If ever there is something unifying, something in which Boris Johnson is effectively called a good European, then this must be it!
450 Posted 19/04/2021 at 14:30:51
451 Posted 19/04/2021 at 14:32:48
452 Posted 19/04/2021 at 14:35:13
453 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:15:02
454 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:21:10
455 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:26:44
I am convinced this will be sorted without any of the 6 leaving the Premier League. The truth is, despite many views stating the opposite, the six are an integral part of the financial success of our domestic competitions and we need this continuing success for the sake of BMD.
My fear is their continued presence will mean them playing their second 11 and saving their first 11 to concentrate on on Europe.
May I give a shout out to two, amongst many great posts, to Charles Brewer (392), and Kristian Boyce 394 - you are dead right Kristian
456 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:29:08
457 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:30:26
Tom #391, none of the Americans (except Dest) are considered superstars. All are around age 20. None would be leaving vast fortunes on the table by demanding transfers to non-SL clubs. And I think you very much underestimate the power of national pride versus the "almighty" dollar, not just in the US but places like Brazil. I repeat my prediction that Pulisic, McKennie, Dest, Reyna and Steffen will be among those who will walk away from their clubs if FIFA imposes a WC ban. And I truly believe that players like Cristiano and Ederson will simply have no choice.
Charles #392, yes, and that's why I called out John Boon's opinion that Americans don't understand family-based, life-and-death fan support. College football inspires an almost religious devotion in the smaller cities all over America where it is based.
458 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:31:09
459 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:40:02
460 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:46:53
461 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:47:55
The premier league was set up for more MONEY!
The top 4 in the premiership can be named year after year from 5 clubs! Football has become predictable in terms of success. Fans wanted billionaire owners! Why should owners care about fans? They have no affiliation with local communities.
Really are we surprised a super league has been agreed?
Football died years ago!! Greed is the winner!!
462 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:54:12
Think John Henry is on record as saying his baseball team will always come first
463 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:55:34
Spion Kop 1906: We, along with other groups involved in flags, will be removing our flags from The Kop. We feel we can no longer give our support to a club which puts financial greed above integrity of the game.
464 Posted 19/04/2021 at 15:58:20
They don't like it. We don't like it. But this is the self-licking beast that keeps eating itself created back in the early 90s.
465 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:00:40
466 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:02:07
Too big to fail. It's bollocks. Part of the process of opposing the Super League should be also to oppose this existing power-grab by the money clubs. We need a complete reset.
467 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:03:06
468 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:06:18
Wonder whether Norwich will be invited.
469 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:12:00
470 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:13:23
It wouldnt be the first time the owners of that club have been at odds with its supporters. Interesting developments then.
Culture secretary addressing Parliament at 4-30 to outline its views and proposals.
471 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:17:45
472 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:19:18
Maybe they will also form their own European league, possibly even without the aid of UEFA? keep domestic leagues, but have promotion and relegation every season into the European league, or wait and watch a lot of clubs eventually jump onto the coat-tails of this newly formed ESL, once they realise that the concept currently in place (no promotion or relegation) will only make it implode, unless they change it?
Its very early days, but with these big clubs basically saying that we cant live without them, then I just hope its proven that we can🤞
473 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:23:00
No action will be taken.
474 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:29:42
There is nothing wrong with sensible and fair maximising of revenues. People might rail at Sky but the broadcast of the games was something that could do with expanding and has been a boon whilst crowds havent been able to attend. The step change here is that these clubs want to eat their cake and have it. They want to ride on the backs of their domestic leagues / competitions whilst having another guaranteed cash cow which cements their preeminence. They are removing the ‘sporting element and trying to make elite football just ‘entertainment.
Calling it ‘evolution backs up the ‘its natural and inevitable suggestion but that is bullshit. This is ‘forced evolution, wholly artificial and with little regard to the impact on the wider ‘ecosystem. Even natural evolution can produce disasters (pandemics anyone?) but this smacks of mad scientists off the leash.
Sky could even lose out with this as there are supposed to be various streaming services keen to get involved who could usurp them. I imagine the Chinese would love to get involved.
So what is the driver? Well obviously its greed, but whose? Simon Jordan puts the blame squarely on the players and their agents. He reckons many of these clubs are actually losing money and so are now desperately looking for a way of securing their future. Whichever way this goes, it is likely that some revision on players pay / agents fees is going to have to happen. Hopefully, this power grab will bring enough cohesion and cooperation that some sensible rules can be introduced that everyone can be made to follow.
Two non-footballing aspects that really bother me. First is the timing. Obviously that has to do with the UEFA announcement but it is odious that these clubs have thrown this handgrenade of uncertainty just when people are both seeing some light at the end of the tunnel after a very disconcerting year and settling in to enjoy the run-in of the season. The disregard for the alarm this plan has caused shows an almost inhuman absence of empathy.
The second thing is; have people forgotten about concerns for climate change and all the commitments to reducing carbon footprints? Is it really sensible to want to have even more international travel. To me that is another reason that substituting Juve for Burnley for your ‘bread and butter away fixture should be deemed a non-starter.
475 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:31:16
If you look at the past few years, City have emerged as a top power, Chelsea did it a while back, so it shows that other clubs can also achieve it in the future.
The premier league will continue to be one of the best leagues around, we will still have the Champions league, the f a cup etc, these clubs will be replaced with the likes of Everton, Villa, Leeds and the likes, you may even get Celtic and Rangers, joining the Premier league, in a revamped league, who knows.
One thing I do know is this league will continue and to be honest, could even turn out to be a very wide open league, for the first few seasons, but it will not fade out, because the money grabbers have jumped ship.
The league will grow again and thrive.
All I ask of them, is to take var with them, and ensure they are not allowed to take part in our league, if they go ahead.
Only those teams that jumped ship, will live to regret their decision.
Bayern Munich are no mugs, they know which side of the bread, their bread is buttered on.
476 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:33:23
FYI the investment community apparently loves the Super League. Every publicly traded club among the 12 is up sharply on their stock exchanges today. On a down day for Wall Street, Manchester United is up 9.4% on the NYSE.
477 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:39:21
478 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:41:58
479 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:44:40
There ain't half some hypocrisy flying about though. It has been reported that Özil has criticised the Super League proposal - says the player who sat out his obscene wage contract.
480 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:49:15
But you make valid points and I'm not against progression, re-structuring or re-organising. If you stand still, you walk backwards as they say and playing Devil's advocate, the revolution of broadcasting football has brought benefits and made it accessible to many who couldn't access it previously. Making the beautiful game available to many should always be seen as a positive.
The key thing for me here is the protectionism of the so called elite being taken to another level. Beyond that of the Champions League, which itself affords a degree of that.
If you remove the possibility of relegation, it's a closed shop. You remove the competitiveness. Show case games that will pretty much be like those dreadful pre-season tournaments set up for the cameras and tourist fans. Competitive sport without competition, where there may still be reward for success but no consequence for failure, becomes a spectacle, not competitive sport.
481 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:54:21
So what if it does go ahead, and these six clubs are to remain in the premier league? What kind of teams will they be fielding? And, here's the biggie for me, what if they play a weakened team in the premier league all season, and end up being relegated?
It's being reported that the remaining premier league clubs are demanding immediate sanctions against the six clubs, and even want suspensions imposed from the current season. The remaining fourteen clubs are to meet with the premier league tomorrow, so let's hope their sanction requests are granted.
And one more thing, there will be fifteen clubs guaranteed the safety of avoiding relegation, while there will be five clubs invited to participate. Is this for one season only, and what happens if their own national league won't let any of these five clubs back in to their league?
482 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:55:09
Is this simply good to become a permanent 12 club tournament where they simply play each other every season for the next 20+ years? TV revenue for that proposition will collapse quickly. I would also assume that the Premier League and remaining 14 clubs can vote to expel them or simply set up a new league which they are not invited to join.
The 6 premier league clubs - the only thing big about them are the size of their debts - may come to regret this.
483 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:55:27
Is this actually green-lighted??? Is it a go?
If so, throw the English Clubs out of the league. The law should be they need to re-apply for membership to the FA at League level.
You leave, youre out. If youre out, you need to climb the pyramid again.
This is sickening. I think it will fail in the long run. Fuck these clubs.
484 Posted 19/04/2021 at 16:59:05
The big games (Real Madrid et al) won't be one offs, they will be all the time, making it just another match. May aswell just relocate all them in Sunny Spain and have done with it.
This all however may make recruiting the best quality we can, such as James, Lukaku standard players for Everton even harder than it was, and I do still want to see such talent in a Everton shirt.
485 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:06:57
They still want to be included / benefit from the domestic competitions, but they want an additional protected in perpetuity elite competition with a whacking great revenue stream that pisses on the ambitions of pretty much everyone else.
The (very small) carrot is a discretionary 5 places on offer each season to make it seem like others can earn a place at the trough.
They will only be excluded if that is the sanction that UEFA and the various FAs agree on. The bastards are gambling that their box office draw will be enough for everyone to cave to their wishes rather than taking a financial (and status?) hit in the competitions they control.
486 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:07:01
487 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:13:42
Joe (484), its not inevitable. Man up.
488 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:17:51
Although that's the romantic optimist in me. In reality there'll be a negotiated fudge.
489 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:18:16
They know the opportunity to walk back into their domestic leagues will remain even in the event of some token ban as football authorities are dull as dishwater and spineless.
The clubs (undoubtedly led by the Americans at Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal) have wangled a win, win situation. Should it go tits up they come back debt free if it works they won't give a backward glance.
They've played a blinder.
490 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:18:46
491 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:25:06
If those Yank owners are behind this, on behalf of an entire nation I apologize.
492 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:28:23
You hadnt been on the Live Forum for a bit. You had me worried.
Nice to “see” you.
493 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:28:43
494 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:29:20
No need for apologies mate.
Re the yank owners.Something like this has been thier intention since the day they bought the clubs.
495 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:32:34
To be clear, the three American ownership groups are enthusiastic participants in the €$L, but they're not "behind" it -- the originators are Perez at Real Madrid and Agnelli at Juventus.
There was a bit of Yank-bashing here last night behind the theory that this is all an American conspiracy, but I defended the flag as best I could.
Thanks for your concern about my absence, but all's well -- just busy packing up the house for a move north and dealing with some personal grief. Not a fun time, but I'm fine.
496 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:34:42
497 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:36:49
498 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:38:43
499 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:39:42
500 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:43:27
Nobody's dissin' yo flag bro!
501 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:43:28
Perez and Real Madrid, who arguably have been previously bailed out with the Spanish Royal purse are most definitely the driving force behind this. He will be the self-appointed el Presidente it seems.
502 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:43:51
503 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:46:17
I just get irritated that the equally enthusiastic British, Russian, Italian, Arab, Spanish and Chinese ownership groups of the other €$L clubs haven't even been mentioned in the 500 posts here, but there have been dozens of slams at the Yanks. Seems a bit too convenient for me.
504 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:46:29
And then we have Texans!!
505 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:48:55
They are all equally in it together.
All got the same culpability
506 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:49:21
507 Posted 19/04/2021 at 17:49:31
Any competition in which a place is guaranteed and not earned on sporting merit is not a competition. If UEFA and the Premier League stick to their guns and impose bans on any of these breakaway clubs and their players, my gut feeling is that they will back down.
508 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:00:12
509 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:10:44
I really wish they wouldnt broadcast such obvious idiocy.
Had a 19 year old female ‘student talking about being able to attend the Leicester v Southampton semi-final on the news yesterday state that her age group were ‘less likely to catch the corona virus. No!!!! You can still catch it and pass it around, you are just less likely to suffer badly with it.
510 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:11:39
They are being kind, they are prepared to keep five places open for new teams, I just hope the respective leagues are not so kind, and tell them once theyve locked the door on the way out, just put the keys straight in the letterbox.
My only concern is Bramley Moore, but tomorrow should hopefully bring more news, concerning the reaction from the rest of the teams in EPL, and beyond, and I just hope they come out the meeting singing that old Will Young song!!
511 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:20:35
The ‘clean 14 PL teams response tomorrow will be instructive I think. I hope none of them is on a promise!
512 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:22:18
This time the owners may find they have overestimated their powers insofar as European football is concerned. There may however be a longer term hidden agenda of creating a climate whereby the ‘super twelve link up with newly created big ‘franchises in the USA and Asia to create a World Club League for a global television audience.
None of this is inevitable providing the general public, the other clubs and the games governing bodies oppose it with everything at their disposal. Ostracising the ‘super twelve would be a reasonable start.
513 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:28:34
Bramley Moore will be fine, the Premier league, Champs league etc will still continue.
If you look at Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Ipswich, Derby County, and the likes, they were once top of their game, apart from Leeds who have recently returned, all those teams were replaced by other clubs, namely City and Chelsea, city and Chelsea I know were up and down, until recent money investment, put them among the elite.
The same will happen again, if those clubs uproot and leave.
The premier league, will survive, without those clubs.
514 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:28:39
515 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:29:41
"No sorry we don't recognize you as part of our league now fuck off".
Now that would make a nice statement.
516 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:32:18
I think that it is worth bearing in mind that only 15% of the television audience for the EPL and Champions League comes from Europe, the remaining 85% come from Asia, the Middle East and Africa. The people watching there really couldn't care less about the structure of the leagues they are watching, they just want to watch the biggest teams playing each other and that is what the €$L are banking on.
Interestingly a few years ago I did some work in the Kenyan and Tanzanian townships, we wrote to all EPL and Championship clubs asking for donations of shirts. The Championship clubs were all phenomenally generous. Man Utd donated one shirt, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and RS sent nothing. To be fair City were generous as were Everton I am pleased to say.
517 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:35:57
American pro sports leagues are twice the size of the proposed SL. They don't invite teams in and out every year, as the SL will. They have player drafts to equalize talent (worst teams pick first), which the SL obviously will not. They have complex salary cap structures, which the SL obviously won't. And North American sports teams are franchises of their leagues and almost all locally owned -- no Russian oligarchs, Chinese corporations or Persian Gulf governments own US clubs. The only similarity with the Super League is the absence of a promotion/relegation model.
John #512, I would guess otherwise. I think these 12 clubs have already expended too much money, time and prestige on this idea to back out based on public condemnation.
518 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:36:31
The people on this thread are not helping.
Some really fantastic posts giving an insight into repercussions I didnt even consider.
No ale in the house to drink while this thread unfolds, but Just noticed a case of her favourite SA pinotage in the cupboard
519 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:37:00
Board member at one of English clubs joining Super League: "This isn't a civil war, it's a nuclear war. To be honest though the owners are not that worried about bad PR, they were expecting it. Their job is to maximise profits. The wider good of the game is a secondary concern
520 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:39:06
521 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:43:20
522 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:43:27
The whole thing lacks any element of competition, where's the carrot? I can't get my head round the concept of this. Surely as a spectacle it'll be even duller than the already tedious Champions league? There's a reason they're giving it a revamp.
Club owners don't care about local communities, and couldn't care less about lower division football - as an Evertonian I do care about the lower league clubs as I suspect many of you all do as well. It'd be like cutting the roots off a tree, a house of cards.
First VAR now this, the game we grew up with is well & truly dead & gone.
523 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:48:26
The English league was built on the back of supporters, the vast majority who were working people, and you will soon see an objection from the majority of supporters clubs including the 6 who want to move.
If the Football Association are prepared to make a strong stance against this, one of the first statements will be to inform the 6 teams from the premier league that their conduct is against the F.A. rules and regulations, and at least give them a large fine and a threat of loss of points.
I believe that these 6 premier league clubs are unaware of the power of the F.A, that has survived for 100yrs, in making this decision and may find out to their shame, that the grass is not greener on the other side.
524 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:49:12
525 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:49:49
526 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:53:33
527 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:57:43
Man U fans have a nice head start and will be pleased with the opportunity to forge a new superpower. AFC Salford Utd.
528 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:58:55
529 Posted 19/04/2021 at 18:59:13
Past present and future would need to be turned on its head
530 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:01:28
531 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:04:13
532 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:05:12
Real Madrid is spending €575 million to rebuild the Bernabeu. The major financing is coming from... drum roll, please... JP Morgan.
When Agnelli at Juventus first launched his publicity campaign for this idea, over a year ago, he also hired Giovanni Reggiori directly from JP Morgan, where he was a leveraged finance analyst specializing in sport financing transactions.
Of course, JP Morgan is also the chief financier of our BMD project.
533 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:05:28
As others have said no need to apologise.
What may be misunderstood by the Americans involved is their actions are an attack on the very foundations of the game. Universally the game evolved from local areas represented by sporting heroes with excitement, joy and sadness provided in equal measure. Football is, and always will be, THE working mans game devotion passed on from father or mother to son or daughter as rites of passage.
Often equated to religion the importance of history, location and parochial pride can never be understated. The idea of playing some games away from hallowed turf or renaming and moving the club hundreds of miles away for financial gain as per the US is anathema to europeans.
Generally speaking it's a cultural thing
534 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:12:52
All good points.
And that's the frightening thing about this whole stab in the back by these clubs, they're confident they're going to get what they want, they'll keep their players and remain in the prem with a few points deducted most probably.
I doubt the prem heirachy are any less the greedy whores than these clubs, they won't want to kill the cash cow and so we'll have 7 clubs earning a fortune in the platinum league next season and sitll allowed to slum it with us in the prem.
The prem will do whatever it takes to save the prem and that means the unthinkable, we'll have to play against those bastards next season.
535 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:16:34
536 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:40:53
The only problem is is that its for a select few members only.
Madrid, Juventus and Barcelona are skint and COVID has hit them hard. This breakaway is all about self protection and self preservation for a select few elite clubs. Whereas us commoners of the so called "lesser" teams will juts have to lump it.
As for Spurs lol when did they fucking last win anything???
537 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:51:14
Yes banks are global but isn't their head office in the States where the committee headed by the Chairman or Chairperson and C,E.O have to agree on all major commitments to stay on the side of their shareholders. The agreement as I read is for a payment of 3.5 billion and I believe that the head office in the states were well aware of what was going on and would have to give their approval.
538 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:53:32
539 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:53:57
540 Posted 19/04/2021 at 19:57:42
For me I stand with the supporters of the 6 clubs and I pray at tomorrows meeting a sensible conclusion is reached for the benefit of all.
Steve Parish indicated in tonights interview on Sky that is the attitude with which he will be going into tomorrows meeting.
Lets not be selfish here - there are genuine supporters of the 6 clubs hurting just as much - if not far more - than the rest of us supporting the remaining 14.
541 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:01:44
I'm just saying the decision had nothing to do with where that home office is located.
542 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:02:04
Karl Heinz Rumenigge speaking on behalf of Bayern Munich.
Bayern and Germany leading the rationality as English, Spanish and Italian clubs seek to capitalise and look after themselves.
543 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:04:36
I feel sorry for the fans of all clubs, its clear practically nobody wants this.
544 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:05:17
545 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:19:32
Its a great short-term policy, but it appears to lack the very substance that made this sport so popular in the first place imo, but the wind of change is here now, even if their initial audacity, is hopefully dealt, with the unadulterated contempt it deserves.
Mike G, you explain a lot about American sport, but to us English, the concept of no promotion or relegation, does seem to only exist in your great sporting nation, with the contradiction being for so many, that only the chosen few, have now got a chance of “chasing the dream”, which is definitely not an American concept!
546 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:19:54
Anyone know why Bayern Munich not joining the list of Vile clubs?
547 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:22:30
548 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:24:31
549 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:27:33
They just need to broadcast their product globally and fill stadiums, wherever they may be. They don't care much for it being their own home.
550 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:36:32
I believe Bundesliga clubs are 50% plus 1 share owned by fans. So they have a slim majority for voting. Hence the very low ticket pricing etc. Seems the way toward to me
551 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:37:08
552 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:37:48
553 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:39:29
554 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:52:08
If so, where the hell have they got the money form to fund this?
It would be like Lloyds Bank Plc offering to bankroll the EPL.
555 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:53:18
These clubs have crippled Everton for years.
Man U took Rooney Fellaini and Lukaku from us. Goals galore. That wouldn't have happened before the premiership and people are waking up over this false flag operation.
Its absurd and shows how much sky sports has brainwashed people into thinking this is possible.
I wouldn't be suprised if UEFA already know the outcome which will be a bigger champions league and more money for these vultures.
As you correctly stated, nothing is new here. The CL was basically created to solve Madrid debt problems because they didnt qualify one year.
They throw these threats out year after year and get more and more perks.
Madrid and Barca gets the lions share of la liga tv money which leads to all the best kids being there and every top opposition player goes there etc etc and thats what Liverpool and United want.
3 years back we were ecstatic with Steve Walsh buying a crop of relegation battlers after losing Stones then Lukaku the year later.
We have had to rebuild, rebuild, rebuild while banks saved Liverpool and with United they got the transfer rules their way.
Now they have a more expensive keeper and Centre half than Man City who are richer.
The chances of us increasing our wage bill to attract enough real players has decreased while all this has gone on.
556 Posted 19/04/2021 at 20:55:14
557 Posted 19/04/2021 at 21:04:58
Hail Kenwright! Im sure we would have been part of this only for “Our Saviour” how ironic can you get!!
558 Posted 19/04/2021 at 21:10:39
FSG have failed in their attempt to increase the capacity to 75,000. The corporate clients are not happy with the rail service to Lime Street nor the flights into LJL. With the newly build Olympic Stadium in Paris, John Henry announces that with no ESL team in the country, they are moving to the French capital and will henceforth be known as Paris Kopites FC and he has signed a 10 year lease agreement for the stadium.
Likely scenario? Yes or No?
Happy if it happened? Yes or No?
559 Posted 19/04/2021 at 21:30:05
unless you get into into serous debt and / or your New Stadium is closed and expected revenue streams closed off. Then you have the possibility of having to sell off your better players to relieve the debt and have to deal with the fall off in performance and not qualifying for elite European Competitions. The threat of your elite footballers being injured by idiot goalkeepers and threatening your top 4 finish.
Then along comes an idea, whispering in your ear - Billions, Billions I have for you - just betray your roots, your fans and follow me. I guarantee you millions / billions every year and no more debt. Your investment is totally risk free as you will no longer face the threat of relegation you see. As for the rest fuck em, they are dragging down your profits / share price. Putting at risk the investment you've made. You know who I mean - Leicester and others like them. You can make the rules too.
But what about the fans - treat them as you always do. Like mushrooms. I can get you millions of fans from all over the World. TV / Streaming Companies paying billions a season, to share with like minded people. Its a dead cert, you Can't lose. So Come along now there's no time to wait. The sooner we start the quicker the money pours in !!!
Please Mr Moshiri have no dealings with this.
560 Posted 19/04/2021 at 21:34:01
1. You are a fine Evertonian.
2.You are a loyal American I admire loyalty.
3. You are incredibly persistent as observed by you many posts I admire your persistence.
4. I had suggested that the forefront of this movement regarding the "Despictable Six" was lead by Greedy Americans. I still feel exactly the same way but I should have added that they were supported by equally greedy Russians, Saudis, Chinese, and ANY other GREEDY SOB from anywhere else on mother earth.
5. Please do not ever equate the fervor, support and loyalty of "College Football"fans with the fanatical dedication, madness,sheer lunacy and insanity of "soccer" fans around the world. AND it does not matter what team they follow.
6. My first love is my family but my own wife of 54 years regularly tells me that I love "EVERTON" more than her. She was not amused when I once jokingly said I loved Tranmere Rovers more than I was unable to complete the punchline while lying on the kitchen floor
7.Back to common sense, and Mike you pride yourself with such an attribute, but you just CANNOT be a football fan if you have common sense.I have followed my beloved Blues for eons home and away before emigrating to Canada. To some even that move defied logic. On away games I have lost my shirt shoes and other clothing, usually due to imbibing too much of the good stuff. At fifteen I once rode to Burnley and back about 130 miles. on my sisters bike. I was stopped seven times by the police because I had no lights.It got even worse when I got home because my sister had phoned the police to report a stolen bike.
8. All this really to try to illustrate the compulsive madness of being a "football " fan from Merseyside, and one who thinks that the DESPICABLE SIX should be banned forever.
9.The RS (Despicable Red) are beating Leeds 1-0 and this does NOT help my biased irrational logic. Enough for now unles you mount one more defence. BUT remember you are dealing with an 81 year old lunatic Evertonian who has two VERY big sons. AND the border will not be closed forever. Keep Smiling
561 Posted 19/04/2021 at 21:37:03
562 Posted 19/04/2021 at 21:42:19
563 Posted 19/04/2021 at 21:45:57
564 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:00:28
No love or hate for any owner or chairman makes a difference Tony. We didn't grasp the marketing side of what the premiership offered and got left behind long before Kenwrights tenure.
565 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:07:50
566 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:07:50
567 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:07:50
568 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:25:11
569 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:29:50
570 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:38:09
571 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:41:09
572 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:43:42
573 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:49:33
574 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:52:27
Hes loved the chance to repeatedly say Klopp has gone against his owners too and Carragher seen right through it and defended Klopp v the Owners.
Neville is a snakey self obsessed hooter with a head and body.
575 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:56:16
Really, you Sky lackey... Hheaven help us that Carragher and Neville are the moral majority!
576 Posted 19/04/2021 at 22:58:08
And his passion is welcome. We want passion in all quarters to defeat this.
He's also said he hopes Ole criticises this.
I don't really care if he's milking it. He's useful.
577 Posted 19/04/2021 at 23:01:00
Any changes that will come won't benefit us put it that way.
578 Posted 19/04/2021 at 23:01:52
579 Posted 19/04/2021 at 23:06:33
As you say, though, any changes won't benefit us.
580 Posted 19/04/2021 at 23:11:19
If anyone has the techno please post it on here to lighten the mood.
581 Posted 19/04/2021 at 23:20:00
Ooops! How remiss of me and they're my third team, too. (My second team is anyone who happens to be playing the RS).
582 Posted 19/04/2021 at 23:24:39
Seems like NDAs signed and agreed by the traitor clubs.
Lets hope the UK government, UEFA and FIFA take the required action this week and kick them out of their respective leagues and a life time ban and nul their remaining fixtures and annul their EPL positions.
No mercy, as a proper example must be made to show the true game can survive and progress with out their dirty self centred deals..
This will finally put the independent match day badge sellers etc at the traitor clubs out of business and at the higher scale could make many more people redundant.
The furlough club really has shown its colours.
Old Nick may be riding out of town soon.. Lets hope so.
583 Posted 20/04/2021 at 00:15:56
John #560, you're always one of my favorite lunatics here.
584 Posted 20/04/2021 at 01:31:26
TW allows for so many divergent points of view and that sensibly allows Evertonians to agree to disagree. I usually have a smile on my face when I post, and this has been the case in my recent communications with you. I must say I am delighted that you have "basically" agreed that I am right about everything. I often amaze myself that I know so much, but my humility just does not allow me to boast.
On a final note I expect to be made a Saint after I expire. However miracles are required for that to happen. Easy I will pray for Everton to win the Prem next season. AND I will have the "Despicable Six "play in their own little league for all eternity.
585 Posted 20/04/2021 at 02:04:26
You cite Lyndon however whose piece included
“Of course, there is a strong possibility that this is just a high-stakes game of poker, a brass-necked bluff designed to draw an unpalatable compromise from Europes governing body that not only hands control of the Champions Leagues commercial revenue in the hands of these clubs but probably guarantees them entry on an annual basis.
If it isnt, and the nuclear option is chosen so that these clubs are indeed expelled, the success of what is left behind by formation of The Super League would depend to a significant degree on “The Super Greed” dying on its avaricious arse, as many predict it could.”
I read that as Lyndon believing the power grab itself was inevitable but that the actual outcome is in the balance. Your post, at 484, I read as completely defeatist and throwing the towel in.
586 Posted 20/04/2021 at 05:53:39
Didn't you just know Brexit might have an upside.
Go get 'em, Boris!
587 Posted 20/04/2021 at 06:27:43
1) Expel the 6 clubs.
2) Refuse to play them if they cannot be expelled.
3) Impose a points deduction each season for playing in an unsanctioned tournament.
They will also try to drive a wedge between the 6 clubs. Undoubtedly, Liverpool are the most vulnerable to compromise. Two days in and not a single statement that originated from the club, apart from a half-hearted and apologetic email to staff from their CEO saying they would have been left behind if they hadn't joined from the onset.
Say what you like about Klopp, but he is principled individual and spoke out. Compare that to the chicken shit performance from Tuchel at his press conference. You get the true measure of the person in tough times.
588 Posted 20/04/2021 at 06:39:46
589 Posted 20/04/2021 at 08:04:03
They dont even look after old Trafford he said, there is rust in the metal, which is not even painted, and this instinctively made me think about “our saviour”
Its a sad world, the lower clubs are struggling like mad, and you have players like Pogba, who turns up once every few weeks, demanding half a million quid a week, so hopefully we take one thing straight out of American sport, and introduce a salary cap, instead of having to hear the shite coming out of the Real Madrid chairmans mouth, about this being a move to save football
590 Posted 20/04/2021 at 09:05:57
The last time I watched an elite non-Everton game with the intention of watching the whole game, was the France v Croatia world cup final. But France scored through cheating, from a free kick after Griezmann dived. At that point I switched it off, and havent attempted to watch a non-Everton game since. Id had enough of the bias, cheating and corruption in the game.
It may end up with me not watching even Everton.
You can do it Dave, all you have to do is walk away. Its easy.
591 Posted 20/04/2021 at 09:24:43
A small poll but I am utterly astonished. That means that 21% of those polled did not oppose it.
Who are they?
592 Posted 20/04/2021 at 09:39:41
593 Posted 20/04/2021 at 09:41:21
I used to watch Waterloo Dock and loved the fight, battle, endeavour and no little skill from their games, I understand the attraction of going to see these games.
Stan you might agree it is a lot harder to walk away from watching Everton, if I ever thought about it, than it is for you, living where you do. At the present time, and I dont see it improving, it would be a lot easier to walk away from watching the Blues than at any time previously, but Stan after watching them nearly every week, to the last few years every other week it will be impossible not to go and watch Everton, good, bad or indifferent.
Stan Everton are not a religion but they come quite close to one for thousands of fans who follow them, its easy following a successful team, we have proved, especially over the last thirty years or so, we are there for them no matter what they serve up, once upon a time the players knew and appreciated that, now you know which players care for the fans and the club.
Finally, thanks for your reply Stan, I dont have to tell you how it is, to live in Liverpool and support The Blues, you did it for a long time and it will never leave you, best wishes Stan, oh and Stan, never cast a clout ‘til May is out, especially in Aberdeen, it gets very cold up there!!
594 Posted 20/04/2021 at 10:46:58
Great statement by the club. The first, if I'm not mistaken, to publicly speak out and issue a condemning statement.
595 Posted 20/04/2021 at 10:57:43
596 Posted 20/04/2021 at 11:02:30
597 Posted 20/04/2021 at 11:24:57
Not sure why theyre involved at all. They are not exactly short of money or awash with debt like some of them
598 Posted 20/04/2021 at 11:37:29
599 Posted 20/04/2021 at 11:40:57
Good post mate.
Your slightly incorrect on one sentence.
Everton is more than a religion to many people.
600 Posted 20/04/2021 at 11:54:45
Eventually the non-fashionable cities will lose their franchises to cities like Shanghai, Sydney, New York, Tokyo and the like. Mega cities with very rich populations.
This is why the fans of our north west clubs should be concerned. In 10 years time they might have to turn their stadiums into museums or parks.
601 Posted 20/04/2021 at 11:58:37
I think what you say is a definite possibility.
602 Posted 20/04/2021 at 12:20:10
City will be a very weak link in this enterprise. There will be some attraction in the club being part of a European elite which is watched globally, but I strongly suspect that if faced with the hate now being launched at the likes of ManU and the RS (not to mention the ridicule being aimed at the two-time league winners - 1951 and 1961 - Tottenham Hotspurs), the Arabs will quickly decide they'd rather be popular than "successful" - Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed and his family don't need the money, and don't have to answer to shareholders. Their project is about acceptance by the civilised world, not screwing another billion out of TV rights.
603 Posted 20/04/2021 at 12:23:23
Just imagine driving your latest Maserati down a super highway in Japan compared to getting stuck on a roundabout in Moss Side or a speed bump in Huyton.
604 Posted 20/04/2021 at 12:52:08
I first went to Goodison in 1962, and its in my blood, but the particular thing thats in my blood is the Evertons of the past. Walking away cannot take away that important (for me) past, but can reprioritise what I do in the future. It is, after all, a game, a luxury that can be dispensed with.
Dave, the weather in Stonehaven is obviously cooler, but its also drier and sunnier than the NW of England, which is a major reason for living here. As they say round here, theres no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing! Cheers mate.
605 Posted 20/04/2021 at 13:05:34
606 Posted 20/04/2021 at 13:18:43
So even if this super league deals falls through I believe that its only the start of the conversation not the end of it. I could well see Liverpool and Man Utd both deciding that they wont sign up to the next Sky deal and will either set up there own subscriber TV channel were the money goes directly to the club. The alternative is they don't sign up to the next Sky deal and rather than set up their own subscriber TV they sell the rights to all their games to Amazon or Netflix.
Either way whatever happens if the new league goes ahead or doesnt, the bottom line will be a massively reduced package from Sky.
607 Posted 20/04/2021 at 13:30:06
A similar principle works in relation to Everton, in that, for example, weve generally been more sporting and fair than clubs like Liverpool, and that is important and attractive. Weve won fewer trophies, but when we have won them weve done it in style. Liverpool have never had a Golden Vision or Holy Trinity, manifestations of style. We won only one trophy with Ball, Harvey and Kendall, but we have a statue of them, a testament to quality over quantity.
These are just examples of the importance of quality, style, fairness, etc., in any age, the things that are really memorable and inspiring. The win-at-all-costs attitude of some clubs is, by comparison, ugly and ultimately something not to savour in the memory.
608 Posted 20/04/2021 at 13:42:00
While we are still the epitome of a giant LOCAL club, with the largest number of walk-up fans, the RS have managed to build a global brand that is firmly based on the image of being a local club. That's also the problem their local fans have. The globalisation of Liverpool FC has in reality swallowed the club. When it comes to it, Everton still rely on locals for not just their identity but also their main fan-base, Liverpool only rely on locals for their identity.
609 Posted 20/04/2021 at 13:46:16
Most of the gobshites I've encountered since the Sky takeover of the game have never been close to the ground or Merseyside.
610 Posted 20/04/2021 at 13:46:23
You are ignoring the fact that those teams require fixtures to play in and how boring they would be if you allowed a couple of teams to get so far ahead of the opposition.
This is sport. Its not simply another commodity. Other sports employ a variety of systems to give ‘parity; salary caps and draft systems, etc. Sport needs competition. The sharing out of the TV revenue recognises that.
It is interesting that the governments look at legal objections seems to run along the lines of ‘unfair competition.
611 Posted 20/04/2021 at 14:34:58
612 Posted 20/04/2021 at 15:28:44
Not been taken.
Out of an allocation of 2,000
613 Posted 20/04/2021 at 15:45:40
I don't refute that true sporting competition needs some levelling of the playing field. And I have always hated the cartel around Champions league that we now have a seeding system. I hate FFP another system brought in by the same cartel that wants to stop clubs like Man City being able to pour in millions which threatens the stability of the cartel.
But the finances of most of the Premier league clubs is financed by Sky, and my point was if Liverpool and Man Utd did their own TV deals most of the other clubs would be in serious financial difficulty as the TV money could be halved if they weren't in it. Why are these clubs looking to create a ESL is money, and why because greedy agents and greedy players have bled this game of ours dry. You only have to listen to Pogbas and Haarlands agent telling clubs Pogba wants £500,000 per week and Haarland nearer a million a week. All these agents and players are after is as much as they can get, and to hell with football. As I have said in previous posts our own club pay 85% of our profits right into the players bank accounts how can that be right or sustainable. We like a lot of teams are living way beyond our means and why to keep supporters happy by buying players they cant afford.
614 Posted 20/04/2021 at 18:08:40
Maybe you dont refute it but you sound like a few surrender monkeys on here shrugging their shoulders and saying its inevitable, its just business or, most inappropriately, its simply ‘evolution.
Have people not noticed that business men sometimes do wreck their own businesses, that it is possible to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? The RS and United grew popular across the globe mainly because of their domestic competition successes. The Premier League is the most marketable in the world. If you have to share a bit of that jackpot with others to keep the overall competition thriving then only the terminally greedy would resent that.
615 Posted 20/04/2021 at 18:16:46
616 Posted 20/04/2021 at 18:24:30
Hes alSo looking at summoning the ESL clubs and others to report to his Parliamentary Committee, and give evidence re impacts on game and PL
Sky, BT, Amazon also saying they will be sticking with their existing partners, and not ESL..
617 Posted 20/04/2021 at 18:27:07
618 Posted 20/04/2021 at 18:29:55
619 Posted 20/04/2021 at 18:34:49
They can, but its limited to a degree. Cummings was summoned to one but refused to attend, and held in contempt. He then became Johnsons adviser.
The Facebook man,, Zuckerberg was also summoned but didnt attend, but hes not a UK national.
Its relatively rare to refuse to attend, but its happened.
620 Posted 20/04/2021 at 18:55:18
621 Posted 22/04/2021 at 20:14:51
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