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Bill Watson
1 Posted 17/09/2022 at 14:26:18
It's the hope that kills you. Without looking it up, I remember Moyes's early seasons as one good followed by one bad.
Jim Bennings
2 Posted 18/09/2022 at 08:33:30
The Moyes era was a a strange one.

As Bill points out, it was almost one really solid season followed by a compete disorganized mess.

But I think around 2006-07 we started to see a stability of top 6 finishes due mostly to building a backbone.

The likes of Tim Cahill, Arteta, Osman already at the club, we then had Leighton Baines, Pienaar, Jagielka, Lescott, Fellaini, Yakubu all came in during that period and all added something to the side which made us competitive.

It started going downhill a bit in summer 2010 when little money was made available again.

I always look back and think that group of players we had between 2007 and 2009 should have won a trophy.

Paul Hewitt
3 Posted 18/09/2022 at 09:13:05
Give me the Moyes era over the last terrible 6 seasons.
Danny O’Neill
4 Posted 18/09/2022 at 09:15:09
Hindsight is a great thing, but in similar ways but also different ways, I guess the Moyes era was similar to the 70s teams. The nearly men.

I agree Jim, it was around 2007 to 2009 where I thought we might have done something, but we just didn't have it in us. I've still not forgiven Lescott for allowing Drogba that 10 yard run on him as he stood and jumped from a standing position in the box.

When I look back, I stood up for Moyes initially. He walked into a mess and for several seasons I could tolerate him doing what was necessary. It showed the stark reality of where we had descended to throughout the 90s. But when the time came to change the style and push on, at the time he wouldn't or couldn't and I got frustrated with him.

And, again with the benefit of hindsight, he and Bill were a tag team in playing down expectation and creating a culture that didn't expect anything.

But, I won't contradict myself too much and as I keep saying, within reason, the problems at Everton hasn't always been the manager. They are just the fall guys for the mend in grey suits holding the keys in the corridors of power.

You know who I mean.

And in reference to the Newcastle defeat 12 years ago, roughly this week 38 years ago, we beat Newcastle as we marched towards our 8th League Title amassing what was then a record points haul.

Brian Murray
5 Posted 18/09/2022 at 09:24:49
Paul. Therein lies the problem with blues saying or even craving the Moyes era instead of the the last six years. Moyes brainwashed fans ( even older ones who should know better and have higher standards) to reinvent a plucky little Everton. That problem is still there every week but hopefully franks winning mentality is forcing a change in attitude.If he’s still managing us at the opening to bmd it means he’s doing a lot right.
Jim Bennings
6 Posted 18/09/2022 at 09:29:37
Danny,

I remember that Drogba header, yep.

I've watched that FA Cup Final back a few times over the years, just to make a more level-headed analysis of it rather than at the heat of the moment.

I also think Tim Howard should have done so much better for our manager's (Frank's) winner.

It was not Frank's most powerful shot and Howard got a good hand to it, but I'll always say to this day, Howard was never the best on long-distance shots for whatever the reason.

I would have loved to have seen us in that Final with Jagielka, Yakubu and Arteta though.

Danny O’Neill
7 Posted 18/09/2022 at 09:37:11
My brother always picks up Howard on that Lampard shot, Jim.

Those players might have made a difference, although that was a powerful Chelsea team. I don't know if had prior knowledge or it was just good guesswork, but they targeted our right side quite a lot. Poor Hibbert and Osman had a hard shift.

Paul Hewitt
8 Posted 18/09/2022 at 09:43:03
Brian @5.

I certainly don't think Moyes brainwashed fans, but, being an older supporter, the seasons after Kendall left the first time have mostly been no more than average.

The Walter Smith years were terrible, boring football with little to look forward to. At least Moyes had us fighting in the Top 7 most of his time here.

I would have loved to see what Moyes could have done with the Moshiri millions? I'd confidently say we would have won a few trophies by now. And played in the Champions League.

Christine Foster
9 Posted 18/09/2022 at 10:06:14
Moyes brought a stability we lacked, a base to advance on, but the truth is we never did, instead he bought time, he had reached the zenith of his ability with Everton, we see the same with West Ham Utd.

His failure at Man Utd was predicted, his failure in Spain was dreadful even for him. He complemented Kenwright's expectations perfectly and as time wore on we grew to despise the 'plucky' tag, the 'knife to a gunfight', the failure to show up at any big match.

His welcome was outstayed, personified only by the man who appointed him. He had no qualms in taking a salary before he left, no qualms in trying to take players and put us down. His loyalty gone with the silver he accepted.

He had his time, he will be found out at West Ham... he lost the respect with fans here and in my eyes is just another mercenary. He will be found out today.

Mike Connolly
10 Posted 18/09/2022 at 10:07:27
The problem with Moyes over the years, Kenwright dragged him into a comfort zone which let Moyes have no pressure what's so ever. That's why he failed at Man Utd. Pressure was on from day one.

You hear all the so-called pundits say Lampard won't last. What these no-marks forget is it was us fans that picked Frank (because Moshiri was going to pick another dud). Also, we go every week and see signs of improvement.

Anyway, taking my 11-year-old niece to her first match today (she is very excited). Most of her classmates are Reds – that means they'll never get to see a game. UTFT.

Danny O’Neill
11 Posted 18/09/2022 at 10:12:41
Oh that interview where he displayed his Spanish language skills, Christine.

Up there with the Tony Adams taking a training session as the players looked on bewildered.

Not to mention Steve McClaren's embarrassing attempt at a Dutch accent!

Will Mabon
12 Posted 18/09/2022 at 10:26:25
Danny,

McClaren's effort only equalled by Joey Barton's "French" equivalent.

What on earth goes on in someone's mind to make them do that? Blood-curdling level of cringe.

Jim Lloyd
13 Posted 18/09/2022 at 10:33:52
I think Moyes did a good job in keeping Everton from sliding into relegation. He also picked up a fair number of quality players for not very much, sorted out the mess we were in after we sold half of the players Walter Smith brought in.

I remember (I think!) our first home match when that Scandinavian player was pulled off and Moysie told him what's what when the player started whinging about being pulled off. And Unsie's thunderbolt bursting the net.

For a lot of the time he was here, he managed to get some decent players in, then had top sell them. Bringing a couple of American players in who did a great job for us, and he got us in the Top 7 or Top 8 a fair few times.

That FA Cup Final against Chelsea, was for me, the nadir of Moyes's reign. Sitting behind the goal and watching us more or less capitulate, just deflated me, and all the other Blues in the ground.

Danny, it looked to me that Chelsea attacked, coming down our right, after getting no change from us when they tried down our left. Hibbert and Osman (especially Osman) were well and truly overwhelmed; and we might as well have had a big sign pointing down our right, with an arrow on it saying "Goals this way lads!")

We could have had a lot worse managers than Moyes. I don't blame him for staying in a well-paid job with little expectations on him but staying up.

However, after all those years with Moyes, who do I point to for the malaise in our club? It's one man, plus the cronies who kept him in power.

Answers on a postcard, please.

Brian Murray
14 Posted 18/09/2022 at 10:48:04
Paul @8.

Moyes is a steady manager, nothing more, nothing less. To say he would've won us trophies and Champions League qualifying with money is just speculation. Ask any Man Utd fan etc.

Admittedly a fearsome Chelsea side in that FA Cup Final may have had a real game against Arteta, Jagielka and Yakuba.

Jim Bennings
15 Posted 18/09/2022 at 11:09:07
Paul ^@8,

Do you think the entire of Walter Smith reign was boring?

I agree the early months were some of the most boring I've ever seen and the latter stages a disaster but the whole calendar year of 1999 saw us score absolute bags of goals and play some excellent football.

I think we hit 4 against Leeds, Wimbledon, Southampton, 6-0 over West Ham and 5-0 wins over Middlesbrough and Sunderland.

The combo we had of Hutchison, Barmby and Collins feeding Campbell and Jeffers was quite entertaining to watch.

Again we lost the spine of the team, all three midfielders left in Summer 2000 and Campbell and Jeffers suffered persistent injuries.

Steve Mandaluff
16 Posted 20/09/2022 at 12:53:25
I remember going to the Middlesbrough game in the February and before that game we had played 12 home games and scored 3 goals, we didn't score our first goal at Goodison until 31 October 1998 that season!

Then somehow we managed to beat Middlesbrough 5-0. I'll always remember going back to Lime Street to get the train back to Sheffield and a guy saw us in our Everton shirts and asked us how we'd got on, saying it was the first home game he'd missed all season. He was a mixture of crestfallen and delighted when we told we'd won 5-0! Don't think he could quite believe it.

Then a couple of months later we lost to Sheffield Wednesday at Goodison, a result that put us in the bottom three with just over a month of the season left. Coming back from that game I was sure we were going down.

Thankfully 9 goals in the next six games from Kevin Campbell changed all that.

Before that Middlesbrough game we had scored 14 goals in 24 games. Then we scored 28 in our last 14 games, it was a dramatic turnaround!

Ray Roche
17 Posted 20/09/2022 at 13:05:23
Danny, Jim,

You mention Chelsea attacking down our right; don't forget, Hibbert was booked after about 7 minutes for a ‘nothing' tackle and was terrified of making another tackle after that. He was substituted at half-time. It would have been a different game with Hibbert able to tackle and the spine of our team fit.


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