ToffeeWeb Chatroom — World Cup: Group Stages

Just a reminder that Giannnnni Infantlieino is a complete asshole. He is waving his football magic wand to state that 'all sides' should support a cease-fire during the World Cup (as reported, I can't find a direct quote). I'm not sure I remember him getting a photo with Zelenskiy, hmmmm.

Interesting to see Conor Coady leading the England press conference on the news this morning. Does that give an indication of his prominence in the squad and how he may feature in the tournament?

I don't pay a lot of attention to England, but I thought he was a fringe player??

So, just days away from the World Cup starting and I can't think of a World Cup that has had as little interest from fans as this one. Maybe the fact it's in the middle of our season, which has never happened before.

Also probably where it's being held is the biggest concern. Despite all the claims made by Qatar that everybody is welcome, it's very clear that that's not the case, and was not better demonstrated when I think a Norwegian reporter with his cameraman were filming where they had accreditation to film, and were stopped filming by security guards.

One of the World's leading beer companies who is a major sponsor of the World Cup has been moved from a very advantages position in the fan area to where they will be less conspicuous for any cameras.

It's all well and good Blatter now saying they should never have got the World Cup; he like the rest of the World Cup committee have taken their pieces of gold from the Qatar government. They should never have been anywhere near the bidding for such a prestigious event – this wasn't done to promote football – it is all to promote Qatar.

Their human rights record is appalling, their denial of the number of migrant workers killed building their stadiums is disgraceful, but they have achieved their end – they have got to put on the 2nd biggest event behind the Olympics.

They will remove and detain any LBGT fans they come across and, when called out about it, they will say "Sorry, shouldn't have happened..." but knowing full-well they have instructed their security people to do this.

I see this morning in the news that the USA have given Bin Salman, the Saudi President, immunity against prosecution for the killing of journalist Jamal khoshoggi, even though the US security advisors all concur that it was on his orders that Khoshoggi was killed.

Seems like in life and in sport, money rules and, despite the murderous regimes that exist, they will all bow down to these countries despite their record.

And they've now banned beer sales in stadiums except in corporate areas. Despicable and obviously pre–planned. And then there are all the fatalities of workers as well as not paying them proper wages. All despicable.

Larry @4

It is of course all despicable, as the two countries who were 'chosen' to host the last couple of World Cup tournaments should never have been considered. What I will say is that every FA from England to Ecuador could have protested long and hard about Qatar, as soon as it was announced, they could even have pulled out of the competition en-masse and forced FIFA to choose a more suitable host, but they didn't and we are stuck with the current hosts.

I will watch the games on TV, perhaps not with the same enthusiasm as I've had for previous tournaments and I won't be expecting it to be a festival of football, mainly due to the location and the temperatures out on the pitches.

Larry, don't know if you've seen the Gary Neville “Countdown to Qatar”, on Sky, but it was on there recently that only three people have been killed during the construction of all the stadiums. The figure 6,500 has been banded about as to the number of immigrants killed in the 10 years since Qatar was awarded the World Cup and construction work started.

However, it is being claimed that, whilst it's true 6,500 immigrants have “died” in Qatar in the last 10 years, this figure includes children, people killed in car crashes, those having heart attacks, doctors, nurses, management, in fact any immigrant working in Qatar.

You're also right about the poxey wage the construction workers have been paid, as well as the atrocious living conditions they had to endure for a few years.

Lot of people aren't welcome at the World Cup but two people who can go are Al Qaeda financiers named as such by the United Nations who live happily and freely in Doha as it would “compromise national security” for Qatar to call witnesses against them.

The major Qatar charity, also funded Al Qaeda and the government, supports Al Qaeda affiliates in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen but hey it's a wonderful and worthy World Cup host.

Qatar and state-sponsored terrorism

Danny, supposedly Coady is valuable as a 'good vibe' guy. I forget where I saw that but I think that was the takeaway. So it may not show up in his England playing time what he contributes to a somewhat nerved-out team.

I'll wait to pile on the hosts. It's an embarrassment of riches so to speak.

Karim Benzema ruled out of the World Cup due to thigh injury. This will no doubt be a massive blow to France, considered to be one of the favourites for the World Cup.

They paying 10 dollars free accommodation and 3 meals a day to be a plastic fan. Yeah great spectacle

So, all set for the grand opener between those global footballing giants, Qatar and Ecuador!

Off-topic, but I attended the England v New Zealand Rugby match at Twickenham yesterday. It was a work thing.

I don't really understand Rugby, so didn't know a lot about what was going on. For a game that, at face value, seems simple (catch the ball and run), it looks very complex in terms of rules.

Twickenham is a fine spectacle and Rugby followers are very respectable and polite. Even the guy behind me who took umbrage at the French referee at every opportunity, done it ever so politely, didn't swear once. Nowhere near on the scale of the "You're shite, Everton" bloke with other language I won't repeat, that we all are familiar with!!

Another interesting thing is that outside the stadium, they were selling an App / Link which enabled you to listen live to the communication between the on-pitch and video officials on your phone. They really do have officials and the VAR right. I can never imagine that level of transparency and accountability in football. Closed shop. Knowledge is power springs to mind.

I often make random observations. England Rugby fans must like burgers as there are reams of temporary burger vans and tents, seemingly in people's gardens between the station and the stadium. And they like to drink Guinness. A lot of Guinness.

Anyway, I digress. Back to football and the World Cup. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how Wales get on. Soft spot as I was stationed there for 4 years (Pembrokeshire) and they have the best national anthem. England need a national anthem and stop stealing the UK one. Their official World Cup song is pretty inspiring too, even though I can't understand a word!

God Save the King still sounds strange. Quite a few slipped back to Queen and "send her victorious".

Ooooo... Everton mention.

Enner Valencia!

Who knew?

Every world cup up until now I've sought to watch every game live (split screen on third group games!). Not this time. Thiefa is killing the World Cup (except for mega bribes) and I really can't be arsed watching. Except maybe to see how Southgate manages to get the minimum out of a largely talented squad of players by playing two DMs and leaving the forwards isolated. Remind you of anybody?

Maybe if I take a leaf out of Infantino's handbook and try to watch matches from the perspective of a black disabled Welsh speaking lesbian with red hair and freckles it might summon up some interest, but I've never been so disillusioned with football.

And he scores the first goal!

Was that Keane and Holgate in defense for Qatar?

Or not. What an absolute scandal.

Never in a million years... what an absolute fix.

You can't score the first goal against the hosts after they paid $220Billion for the ultra corupt FIFA World Cup.

Utterly shameful.

Var has started the tournament in normal circumstances🤷‍♂️ I think it's disgusting what has been allowed to happen to the beautiful game.

Ecuador should walk off after that. Refuse to play.

Offside?

Ridiculous decision.

Has that FIFA bloke got direct communication to fhe officials and VAR?

Well now we know where FIFA's allegiance is in this World Cup. There was sweet FA wrong with that goal. No foul on the goalkeeper, no offside, no dangerous play, so why was it disallowed?

Rob

One of FIFAs watchdogs flagged Qatar recent games for unusual amounts of penalties being awarded to them. Additionally a more spurious guy claims they bribed Ecuador to lose.

This goalie is something else and not in a good way

This Valencia lad seems quite good. Who did he play for again………?

Kieran, are we likely to see a RS esque penalty awarded for Qatar then, fifteen minutes into added on time at the end of the second half?

FFS, get him back!

Tim Cahill tipped Qatar to beat England in Round Two ….

Rob, Goodison graveyard eh ! Glad when we have exorcism soon leave behind a few ghosts

Brian,

I didn't realise he was 33 years old, so probably too old for some on here anyway.

I guess this is why Qatar tried to give passports to a bunch of Brazilian players...

Qatar, slow play, backwards passes. Does this remind anyone of a team in Liverpool?

Kieran #28,

He's as good at predicting the outcome of football matches as he is at helping to choose Premier League managers then.

Just heard Morgan Freeman on the news. Fuck me he has as much shame as the odious Beckham. Is there nothing this scum will not do for money?

If only one well-known, rich footballer would put decency and integrity before greed. Fuck FIFA.

The usual dull opener.

Can anyone tell me why Ashley Williams was chosen to be a pundit? He's fucking terrible.

Gary Neville having a go at the Fifa fella saying they are ruining the game.

Laughable, he works for an organisation that does exactly that then he says it's the beautiful game from Bolivia to Bury. Yeah, right...

It's sad. We all love football and the World Cup and there's nothing better than a month of it every 4 years in the summer.

My memories go back to West Germany in 1974, great days. Even Argentina had a dodgy political system in the 70s when it hosted but somehow it didn't tarnish the tournament to such a degree as this one is being.

Now it's all about greed, social media, ex-footballers having their say or their 'Tweets', sports commentators chipping in with their political agenda, preaching to us as if we have no moral values or ideals of our own.

Enough already! It's in Qatar and there's nothing we can do about it so can we please now be allowed to enjoy it in peace?

What happened at half time for all the empty seats in the second half, or did all the Qataris think that was the end of the game and went home?

Michael,

Ashley Williams sums up just how utterly tragic the BBC has become.

John Kavanagh that's a brilliant post. With this big bribe going ahead in Qatar just see how quick the European Super League comes along.

Money does talk just as it does in golf. Corrupt sods... sorry for the strong language.

Eddie & Michael. Agree. The last decent football pundit the BBC employed was Alan Hansen.

However, the BBC are nothing if not consistent. Their terrible ‘talent' decisions extend way beyond football…

For their biggest light entertainment programme, they use Tess Daly as the lead presenter.

For what is/was their biggest overseas programme sale, they use Paddy McGuinness

… and just when you think standard couldn't fall any lower, up pops Rylan Clark Neal!

Why are people complaining about the World Cup, one of the highlights of the season?

All fans should be excited and proud to watch it and make sure you don't miss a minute of this splendid spectacle.

("What's that, love? There is football on the TV, it's two foreign teams playing that you said you wanted to watch it. Sorry, I am going for a walk.")

Julian #37,

Like you my fondest memories are of the World Cups of the 1970s and early 80s.

Part of the charm lay in watching players you never got to see in any other environment, as most played in their domestic leagues. Today, we know most of the players in the top teams.

My other complaint is that the tournament is now probably too big and in 2026 is going to increase to 48 teams and we'll get even more games played by mediocre teams. God knows how long it will run for then.

Watching Brazil batter Italy in 1970 with Pele, Jairzinho and Carlos Alberto will never be bettered for me. Italy were no mugs with Dino Zoff and Luigi Riva. Todays players may be fitter but class wise don't hold a candle to that Brazil team imo.

I think football to me was lost to cheats when Rivaldo collapsed after getting hit by a ball near the corner flag, not sure what World Cup it was.

Then game over when Sky reared its ugly head.

Brian, if it's "Game Over", why are you still here, bitching and moaning about it ad nauseam?

Always admired the Germans with their mix of organisation and good technique and grudgingly respect the Italians for effectiveness but the South Americans at their best are something else.

Brazil 1970 - the greatest of all time
Argentina 1978 - breathtaking
Brazil 1982 - the greatest team never to win the World Cup

World Cups used to be the pinnacle of sport with excitement, glitz and glamour grabbing the public imagination, but this Qatar effort looks a joke. Fans leaving the stadium en masse at half time!! What the fuck??

Michael,

I don't bitch and don't give a toss if I make you nauseous. I just don't ignore the elephant in the room. It's called wanting better as a blue. Those who understand need no explanation. You obviously do.

Mike (43), yes I agree entirely with both aspects of your post, the past and the present.

Because I'm older than you, Mike, my enjoyment of the World Cup started earlier when a young 17-year-old boy took over the 1958 World Cup with storming performances that entranced all of us who watched him. Pele, what a wonderful player. He missed the 1962 one, was literally kicked out of the 1966 one, but was there with fabulous performances in 1970 along with a load of brilliant team mates, especially in the final.

There have been other great World Cups tournaments with fabulous teams and players but it has provided less entertainment and more cheating with each passing competition. While it once was compulsory for me to watch it and look forward to it, I now pick my matches to watch but it wouldn't bother me if I missed all of them.

Too much fun is missing from far too many games, and I think that goes for most football matches — unfortunately.

It's the endless endless endless repetition, Brian. I am perfectly fine if you've got something new to say, but how many times do we have to hear how Sky have killed football (and yet it's still going) and about the Elephant bursting to cut the ribbon at the New Stadium, and all his other crimes?

Michael K,I wrote a piece on here many, many years ago. I confidently stated that the Sky bubble was about to burst. That money would destroy the game and that what was happening was unsustainable. That the game would return to match going fans, that the Corinthian spirit was an achievable and worthy and the way forward for our club.
Well, what of load of bollocks that turned out to be.

My best world cup was 1970. Apart from the amazing Brazilians we just got our first colour tv. In our dining room the tv sat there with rabbits ears and a fuzzy screen. the room was about 15x12 and in it were all the kids on the street, about 30, spilling lemonade all over the room with excitement.
Brilliant memories in a simple time. I must share that with teary Bill. He'd love that.

At the risk of receiving a card for disloyalty to modern-day alleged footie I've just spent a month watching the cricket T20 and Rugby League World Cups.

In both tournaments there was 100% visible maximum effort and mind-blowing skill from start to finish in every game. It was exhilarating,

They have sweet FA in common with the alleged footie of the present day which is, and has been for many years, putting it politely, mostly boring as hell.

And with the exception of the very few "top" teams financed by very dubious entities everyone one else is forever destined to feed off mere scraps of money.

Bent sport, bent administrators, bent country, bent media - FACT.

So there are fears within the England camp, and also the FA, that Harry Kane will be booked should he be seen wearing the “One Love” captains armband against Iran. Kane has said he will continue to wear the armband against the USA, therefore possibly facing a second yellow and therefore a one match ban, assuming he's not booked against Iran, whereby he would be banned for the USA game. Simple answer is, tell FIFA to fuck off and jump on the first flight back home. We all love football, we all love watching the World Cup, providing it's held at the right time, and in a country that has not paid FIFA a fortune to award it the biggest football competition, along with all it's sanctions on alcohol etc.

We all know the reasons why Qatar should not have been awarded the World Cup, reasons which FIFA have obviously overlooked when awarding Qatar the World Cup, because there was too big a wedge coming FIFA's way. If just one country “throws in the towel” and says enough is enough, others might just follow suit. Somehow I doubt it and England will probably face a World Cup ban from the next tournament. Doesn't seem to have harmed Italy too much though, seeing as they have missed out on the last two tournaments.

Rob I agree: tell FIFA crooks to do one. I am disgusted byvthis World Cup already

The first one I remember was 1978 and Archie Gemmil's goal against Holland.

I enjoyed 1982 and 1986. Regardless of what we thought about the hand of god, it will always be remembered for that 2nd Maradona goal. And for me, the sight of our own hero Peter Reid seemingly jogging on the spot in a forlorn hope chase to catch him. Caveat, he was chasing the best player in the world at the time.

1990 was okay I thought, but more recently it's gone a bit stale. This is just me thinking, but in some ways, it reminds me of the Champions League. Expanded competition. A. lot of substandard teams qualifying, football in the Group stages being very boring and safety first. France in 1998 were impressive and Germany's 2014 team is up there with the best. That 7-1 demolition job on Brazil.

England is a given today, so the English press will go mad with optimism after putting the mighty Iran to the sword. Looking forward to seeing Wales.

There are several reasons why Qatar shouldn't have been awarded this World Cup. One of them is glaringly obvious - a football or emerging "soccer" nation? Half of the stadium walked out at half time watching their own team yesterday. They must have thought that was the full time whistle. I saw on the news a bit of concern and expectation management that there may not be big attendance today. We'll see, could just be my interpretation.

To think, and as I understand, 2nd place candidates was the USA. Now that would have made more sense.

Andy (52),

The spirit in which you wrote that post was most definitely not a load of bollocks, there is much of what you wanted to happen that leaves many fans disappointed that it didn't.

Only for fuckin' Everton, I'd have left watching football long ago.

"Only for fuckin' Everton. I'd have left watching football long ago."

I feel pretty much the same way. I think we are all scared to walk away, because of our history of coming from nowhere to win trophies.

If this club is going to come good, those who have suffered the past few decades of dross would be gutted if it happened after they had thrown the towel in and called time.

It's like playing a fucking fruit machine.

That's quite funny, Darren. You play a fruit machine for hours, filling it to the rafters with every last penny you've got, then walk away skint and some fucker comes along and throws 20p in and wins the jackpot!

You just daren't give up!

WIth regards to Harry Kane's "One Love" armband, I believe FIFA want everyone to wear a "NoDiscrimination" armband.

FIFA being control freaks as usual, but the message seems pretty similar to me. Incredible that, with everything that's going on in the world at the moment, hissy fits are being thrown over what colour armband to wear to signify how much we all love each other.

The media are loving this World Cup, aren't they? The likes of Lineker get to signal their virtue at every opportunity, while still making loads of wedge and getting a holiday in the sunshine. Poor darlings.

Meanwhile, with regard to it being played at "the wrong time", it's not the wrong time for every southern hemisphere nation, so maybe we should all follow the advice to be a bit more inclusive and start alternating the World Cup between "our" summer and "their" summer?

Brian, Darren, Dave, Rob (totally agree).

Danny, Andy (noble hope, sadly trashed) and most other posts, have been top notch. We all have our club at the back of our minds, if not the front!

I'm not going to watch any of the matches in this horrible, bad joke of a tournament. I just see the hypocrisy gushing out of all the FAs, the sponsors, the advertisers, the media and for worrying about England's centre-forward wearing a badge and he might even get red-carded!!

I'm trying not to swear here but I'm greatly tempted! If he wants to make a statement, Stay Home!

We've got David Beckham making mega pounds for trying to entice people to holiday in that dump (even if it's a rich dump!)

I saw a front-page article in the Mail "Fury as Royal Family ban drinking at the match!!! For fuck's sake, they send loads of pundits, as is the BBC, ITV, Sky and all the rest. Then they'll pontificate how medieval a culture this place is! Fuck off! There, they've got me swearing, sorry!

I'd rather watch my own team going through its almost annual ritual of escaping relegation (hopefully!) and listen to our beloved leader tell us "We've had some good times!"

Nearly makes me feel that I like his little homilies! Help!

Gary Lineker, possibly still the highest paid BBC presenter who talks a good socialism.

Dave A, Darren, Rob, we can't walk away. We're condemned men and, speaking for myself, I'm a fool who keeps coming back for more. We all do.

Random analogy, but it's like the "Hot – do not touch" sign on the glass in the chippy.

What did you do as a kid, no matter how many times you got your fingers burned? Tried again on every visit. Give it another go.

I'll confess, I still do for old time's sake.

Darren @59,

I think if there had been no Everton, how much better my life would have been. Apart from a few years, most seasons it's been depressing either worrying about my team and, in latter years, worrying about how those round about us are doing.

Having to consult the fixture lists constantly, having to rearrange social events because it clashed with an Everton game. Most Saturday nights feeling down because of our results.

I am beginning to love the close season more and more with no Everton to worry about. I mean how silly is it that a man of let's say mature years is worrying if so-and-so will be fit to play?

We now have a 25-man squad of supposedly first-team players. Although thankfully not having an addiction to drugs, I think supporting Everton must be pretty close to the same thought process – you know the drug won't do you any good but you can't stop taking it. The big difference is watching Everton won't kill you.

So while I will pick what games I watch in the World Cup, I have got weeks to watch golf, horse racing, rugby, snooker and not worrying about Everton. 5 weeks of absolute bliss, until Boxing Day when the nightmare returns.

Rob, I must have been born on the wrong side of the tracks as they say, like most scouser's I have an almost hereditary affiliation with fairness and equality. Like most too, I consider myself to be right almost all of the time. And humble with it..
So Qatar sits like a brick in my pants when it comes to hosting the world cup and in honesty I want nothing to do with it. For me it signifies all that is two faced and corrupt about the game now. The days of Tony Kay getting banned are laughable compared to the awarding of this event to Qatar. Human rights? no problem, you haven't got any, if you are LGBT and any other additive, we will imprison or kill you. But you are welcome at our world cup, just don't hold hands, or walk together.. in fact just don't open your mouth. Respect their culture.. Good one Fifa, but how can one?
The world is infected by right wing zealots too stupid to ask questions, too arrogant to listen to truths. But its football Jim, not as I know it.
I am glad I saw Brazil in 1970, glad I saw Eusabio at Goodison in 1966, proud I knew a couple of scousers in the NZ team that played in 82 world cup, but more than anything, I am proud to be a blue and understand the difference between right and wrong.

Brian

In the words of Meatloaf. You took the words right out of my mouth

I was listening to a programme on Radio 4 with Guardian football journalist David Conn.

During the World Cup bidding process in 2010, Platini (Uefa) French President Zarkosky and Quatari leaders had a meeting.

Then, 6 weeks later, Quatari Wealth Fund took over PSG and France had a 㾶bn contract to supply fighter jets to Qatar.
Make of that what you will.

Very poor to see the Iranian goalkeeper was allowed to continue after that nasty head clash. Really think the referee should be able to intervene and insist on a concussion test.

Asian confederation not looking so good.

Three nice finishes.

Bellingham looks a player. I wonder how long he will stay in the Bundesliga before the Premier League comes calling?

Lovely strike by Saka.

And Sterling's deft touch. But what a ball in. He just had to change the direction.

Demarai Gray and Anthony Gordon take note. Don't even look for it, just put it into the danger area early.

Everton take note. Give them something to aim for, knowing they don't need to look as someone will be running to get on the end of it.

What were the names of the scousers who represented New Zealand in the World Cup, Christine? Was Keith Garland one of them?

Many incidents of players' toes being trodden on now. I used to have steel toecaps on my cricket boots. Can't remember if I ever had any on my football boots. People had them on their bovver boots of course.

Danny, that's such sound advise have you thought of joining the training team at Finch Farm? Let's face it either no one is giving such instructions or the players just can't do it.

Although we do know Gray can shoot, but we need to see it more often.

Danny@70, what a ball in, I agree, but what bemused me was Shearer saying he didn't have to look because he knows which area to put the ball?

I sometimes think coaching is overrated, but surely every player on the pitch, should have played enough football and should be getting taught about these danger areas?

Yes, Tony, the basics of the simple game made complicated by coaches and players alike.

Joe, I'm taking that as a compliment. I'll consider my application.

I woke up in time to see all the goals, but missed why 14 minutes extra time was added in the 1st half. What happened?

Obviously some FIFA money on Iran getting two goals as the VAR on this game is the most obvious example of corruption ever.

Two England players rugby tackled nothing given, Stones brushes past an Iranian, penalty. Lucky England played well enough that FIFA's match rigging didn't affect the outcome

Think Infantino's bet on a 103rd min pen to Iran will pay out, Kieran.

Joke penalty that one.

It was a really nasty collision between the Iranian keeper and one of his central defenders, James.

First nailed-on signing after the World Cup will be PGMOL getting the services of the Uruguayan VAR.

Biased, inconsistent and selectively blind as a bat - the Sky 6 will insist on his appointment.

Given the current pattern, and considering our chosen striker couldn't score in a whorehouse with a $100 bill, I'd say higher than usual.

So what's with all the dudes cosplaying the Flying Nun? Did that Sally Fields show get syndicated over there?

Danny #102, Weah is the fastest player in US history, pacier even than his dad, and a natural right winger. Beating defenders to the end line and crossing is his entire game. Inherited zero of George's goalscoring, however.

Christine f. If you see this I'm getting the help off Danny O'Neil to format a true story of my dad that ran away from home and jumped ship in New Zealand. Ended up getting capped playing for national team and in papers ( Pom scores for nz) A year later the first of six of us where born to a blue lifetime from 1950 onwards

Lampard could learn something there: if it's not working, change it, even after 45 minutes.

That could well be true Kieran. I don't know about the only nation, but I don't believe their league is professional.

And their biggest clubs (Swansea, Cardiff, Wrexham and Newport) play in the English Leagues.

It's why I've never understood why the Scottish teams couldn't do likewise. Probably individual FA politics, although I do believe there was talk a few years back of a Celtic League with the Scots, Welsh and Irish FAs.

And Berwick, technically in England for many years, despite historical ties, play in the Scottish league. There doesn't seem to be a standard.

Isn't it similar in Cricket? Welsh counties play in a combined league and although represented as England, it's actually England and Wales? I'd need a Cricket follower to answer that one as my knowledge of that sport is sketchy at best.

Back on thread. I enjoyed that 2nd half. I don't think England will have too many problems although I can see both Wales and the USA being right up for it against England.

Brian, I watched that final in a bar in Holland on a weekend trip with my sister and red-supporting brother-in-law. I had promised to be on my best behaviour.

This group is a bit open now. That's competition football for you. It can turn on its head in 90 minutes.

Tony A 71,

I am late to the party as ever, missed both games but will catch up later. Steve Wooddin was in the New Zealand World Cup team in 1982, from Birkenhead, but played for Cammell Lairds (West Cheshire or Birkenhead Sunday league?) and then on to Tranmere Rovers before he left for NZ.

Steve Sumner, NZ captain against Brazil, I believe played in the Liverpool Sunday league, I think he was a scouser (I assumed he was), but he died a few years back of prostrate cancer I believe.

Keith Garland, another scouser, played a bit later I think, I know he used to play in the old Northern League in NZ for Manurewa, a good side at the time. I used to watch the local games most weeks over at Mount Maunganui, another good side, or in Rotorua where I lived.

Brian Murray 111# good one Brian, I think a lot of merchant seaman post-war did the same in either New Zealand or Australia, didn't seem to have any immigration control those days!

Christine @155,

Here's the story Brian took me through. Not a World Cup one, but relevant to International Football.

A personal true story, Christine. The Major (my dad's nickname, nothing to do with the military), was born in June 1927. He ran away to join the Merchant Navy during the Second World War, telling them he was 18. He wasn't. He ended up being a Galley Boy.

As he was small and skinny, the main Chef bullied him and told him he was going to teach him how to box. After the War in the late 40s, he jumped ship in New Zealand. Spent a few months in prison for getting into a spot of minor bother, and then ended up working as a sheep shearer on the South Island.

He ended up getting invited to play for the New Zealand national team and appeared on the front of the national newspapers a few times with one headline reading "Pom Scores Goal". Not many know the story, but Billy Murray, my cousin may do – I think he may have played for Australia, but I'm not totally sure.

Going back to the Chef, on return to Liverpool and Scottie Road, he managed to find the Chef and demonstrated his boxing skills!!

He led a rich and varied life. Like all of us, had a few scrapes along the way. He often went over the top, particularly when it came to Everton. I've told the story about the council maroon door being ripped off its hinges in protest and there being an open gap for 3 days.

A brief, colourful tale of my dad's experiences down under and international football. He always spoke of New Zealand, but his love was Everton, which was installed into his 6 children. He witnessed Dixie Dean play. And regulars will know the story of my brother John, the original Everton mascot in the 1960s.

He was a tough man, as you can imagine back in those days and the area we lived. But the Major (Jim), took us to every Everton game including all of the away ones from the '70s title win onwards. As much of a nutter he was, I'll always be grateful for that.

On behalf of Brian.

Danny (#151); I'm not sure when it changed, possibly in the last 30 years, but the England cricket team never played outside of England as all tours were undertaken by the MCC.

Christine (#155); You can add Tommy Randle to that list. Played for Stoke City before going to New Zealand, 1970s?, but came from Woolton.

Thanks, Christine, and that was also a great little story on Brian's behalf, Danny.

I don't know all your family, Brian, but Tony always made me laugh because of the complete hatred he has got for Liverpool FC.

If Michael K thinks you go on about Kenwright, I'd love to sit him in a room with your kid. 😂