Everton 1 - 1 Nottingham Forest

Everton hosted Nottingham Forest for the first time in 23 years and battled to a late goal that secured their first point of a massively underwhelming season so far.

Frank Lampard significantly choose Anthony Gordon to lead the line, but this time alongside Rondon. Onana was left on the bench along with Dwight McNeil, who has been poor.  Allan did not start but Davies was selected for midfield. Not a single young academy U21 player was even on the bench. 

The visitors go things underway. Gordon was fouled on his first involvement, a free-kick wide left that Gray delivered in superbly and Davies completely missed a gaping open goal. Rondon could not get himself onside in the next attack.  Pickford took his time on a free kick and Everton played it slowly out of the back until Gordon forced a corner, Gordon trying to be too clever in the subsequent phase. 

Gordon gave up a soft free-kick, allowing Forest to play one in deep... too deep, over the byline. Everton were recovering possession well and from Gordon's pass into space Davies tried a rash shot that screwed wide, unreasonable to expect anything better. Patterson got forward but badly overhit his looping cross behind the goal. 

Gordon made space for a beer shot that glanced off a defender, forcing a diving save from Henderson, then Gray tried o squeeze a weak shot inside the post, then Rondon tried and failed to connect. Davies go into a great position but chose to play in Rondon, while he was thinking of something else altogether. It had been a good spell for the Blues but absolutely nothing to show for it. 

Forest saw more of the ball, Johnson invited to shoot and then William testing Pickford. Again, Worrall fouled, this time Gray, and saw a deserved yellow. Again Gray finds Davies with a fine ball in o the far post where the Everon completely messed it up yet again when all he should have done is score. 

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At the other end, Tarkowski had his pocket picked and Johnson seemed to have too much time, failed to score with defenders getting in his way. Bu Forest took more control, with Everton unable to play out from the back. When they did get forward, Mykolenko was fouled and William shown yellow.  Gray delivered a great ball to the near post where Coady tried o make contact, forcing a corner. In the second phase, Gray tried to curl one in but it was always going over. 

Forest were gifted the ball at the other end, Tarkowski giving the ball away very cheaply but Forest wanted acres of space and time that they were not being granted and they failed to capitalize. Gray broke forward and forced a corner that he swung in but only into a crowd of red shirts. Iwobi was called for a deliberate handball. Tarkowski again missed a crucial ball, letting Forest attack and it was Keystone Cops defending that just won out. 

Gordon overlapped on a good run but could not beat Henderson to the overhit ball. Forest got a corner that Tarkowski headed out but the return ball needed punching out by Pickford. 

Another free-kick, wide right this time, was not delivered well by Gray. More crazy midfield play gifted the ball back to Forest but again they could not really threaten. When Everton did counter, the attack stuttered until Gray made good space only to shoot waywardly over the Forest goal. A strange half of lively football but really poor in quality, with half-chances not taken by either side. 

No changes, of course, as the home side restarted. Davies got some good possession but failed to shoot or pass and Paerson eventually looped his cross into Henderson's welcoming arms. Scrappy play ensued, with neither side able o retain possession. But Everton got a free-kick for shirt tugging, which Gray sent in for Henderson to grasp. 

Another Iwobi pass was on a different plane than Gray but Gordon played in Rondon who turned well and fired just wide. Probably the best piece of football so far!  Gordon then got more space but spoilt it by playing straight to a defender. Gray did well to get forward and cross in low but it was 4 feet ahead of Rondon. Changes then from Lampard, 

Onano hopelessly lost the ball and hilariously tried to rugby-tackle his man: Yellow Card! An utterly ridiculous moment!  Onana hen clumsily fouled O'Brien and Forest demanded a second yellow, not forthcoming, but instead a dangerous free-kick that Williams scooped high over Pickford's goal. Gray did well at the other end but his layback to Onana was carelessly wellied over the Forest goal. 

McNeil got forward but his cross was beating nobody. But Everton won a corner that went through a crowd. Henderson needed treatment. Iwobi found Gordon who turned well and tried for the far corner, his shot parried well by Henderson, it needed to be twice as hard or top corner to score. But nothing from the ensuing corner wasted by McNeil. 

An Everton free-kick was put in well by Gray but parried by Henderson and the chance was gone. 

Coady somehow almost scored an own-goal a the other end, his deflection screwing wide. Gibbs-White drove in an excellent cross from the left that Coady half-cleared, and Williams fired a shot across Pickford's goal. 

Gordon danced and shimmied into the area and worked space well for the shot but nowhere near enough power or guile to beat Henderson. Onana was struggling terribly with the pace of the play around him. McNeil should have found Gordon with a breakout pass but totally failed, as Forest saw more of the ball, with a shot from Yates parried by Pickford direct to Johnson who made no mistake to give Forest the lead in the last 10 minutes.  

Onana somehow won a free-kick but Gray's delivery was terrible, however on the second phase it was Loony Tunes attacking as the ball pinged around the Forest area, no-one able to connect and half a dozen chances all go begging. Or was it good defending by Forest? 

However. out of nothing, a brilliant ball over the top from Pickford and Gray did everything that was required of him, to slide it under Henderson after a superb first touch.

With a buoyant atmosphere inside Goodison, Everton went up and won a corner but Gray sent it in straight to Henderson. However, Everton won the second phase and Gordon had a shot that Henderson had to punch back out. Everton worked it around to Iwobi whose shot was a foot over the bar. Everton pushed into the last 4 minutes and Gordon got past Worrall but lacked the skill to scoop it over the advancing Henderson. 

And that was the final action of a very lively game that only confirms Everton's tremendous difficulty in scoring goals – even when they get a whole host of chances!

Everton: Pickford, Patterson, Holgate, Coady, Tarkowski, Mykolenko, Davies (57' Onana [Y:60']), Iwobi [Y:35'], Gordon, Gray, Rondon (58' McNeil)

Subs not Used: Begovic, Keane, Allan, Dele, Coleman, Gbamin, Vinagre.

Nottingham Forest: Henderson, Worrall [Y:18'], Cook, McKenna, Williams [Y:29'], Mangala (55' Yates), O’Brien, Toffolo, Lingard  (83' Kouyate), Johnson, Awoniyi (61' Gibbs-White).

Subs not Used: Freuler, Dennis, Biancone, Hennessey, Surridge, Mighten.

Referee: Andre Marriner
Attendance: 39,271

Reader Comments (301)

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Joseph Terrence
1 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:02:17
On the bright side, Frank finally is starting with a No 9.

Disappointed that he's persisting with a 5-man defense and that Davies is starting over Onana.

Kevin Prytherch
2 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:11:45
I thought Dele had gone….

Back to experience over youth – because that's been so successful in the past!!

£30M player on the bench.

We need to ensure that both wingbacks play high up the pitch or I can see a 1-0 defeat.

Dave Abrahams
3 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:12:59
Very surprised Gordon is starting but it makes us stronger, particularly with Rondon up front and, if we can stay in the game until the new lad comes on, then we are in with a chance.

Roll onto the end of the transfer window with some good additions.

Jim Bennings
4 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:13:22
Ultra defensive?
Neil Halliwell
5 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:13:30
Pleased to see he is starting with Rondon and giving the lad a proper chance. Three wingers up front was a curious choice two matches running and we lost both. I do hope he has a good game as the way he has been treated does not aid his confidence
Dave Whitwell
6 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:14:15
Does he actually want to get sacked? What's the point of signing players if you're not going to use them?

Dele and Van de Beek hardly used, now the Onana debacle... he must be bad if he can't get in ahead of our midfield! 😡

Ciarán McGlone
7 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:14:17
Gordon starting. Interesting. Good to see there's none of the usual "his head's not in the right place" nonsense.

Not going to be an entertaining one this. Hard fought draw would be a good result given our set-up (I hate this automatic 5-man defence) and personnel.

Dean Williams
8 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:16:20
Any streams lads.
David Connor
9 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:17:56
Frank has dropped another bollock, I think, not starting the new lad over Davies. Probably introduce him again when we are chasing the game.

I can only see a draw at best with that line-up. Hope I'm wrong and we get a win. Not over optimistic though. Piss-poor bench as well. New kid apart.

Tim Greeley
10 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:18:55
Outbid for two players by frickin Nottingham Forest - not that I'd have paid half that for Gibbs-White but still, just shows where we are right now. Should be sponsored by Dollar Tree or Pound Town for you all!
Tom Bowers
11 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:21:45
Sorry but this team sucks.

The best we can do is Rondon? Give me a break.

We will do well to get a draw.

Colin Glassar
12 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:22:05
Still got Alli, Davies and Gbamin I see. Oh well, we will just have to wait and see what the rest of the month brings.

I'm going to put 5p on Rondon to score a hat-trick.

Robert Tressell
13 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:22:39
I'll keep saying it. We're carrying an extra unnecessary centre back in this formation. Should sacrifice Holgate for Onana. Suddenly looks like a front foot side that can dominate possession.

Forest starting with 7 new signings. No mugs.

Mark Tanton
15 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:23:02
Play your best players, Frank.
Kevin Naylor
16 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:23:51
5 defenders, 1 DMF and Iwobi who is neither at home at against a promoted side.

People saying give Rondon a chance but I think he is shite but will be happy to eat my words and be proved wrong (not literally of course).

John Kavanagh
17 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:25:10
Disappointed that Mills has lost his place on the bench. I was hoping that he'd be given a few minutes today. I'd prefer him over Gray tbh, whose done very little in months.
Ray Smith
18 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:25:25
Why is Davies preferred to Onana?

Dele Alli on the bench! He's supposed to be in the Besiktas stadium tomorrow!

We are the home team aren't we!

Hopefully Frank has a cunning plan up his sleeve.

Kevin Naylor
19 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:28:29
Beginning to think Frank has no bottle, he was ultra-cautious during the run-in last season and just about got away with it. We won't be in double figures points-wise by the World Cup if he doesn't start doing something different soon.
Simon Dalzell
20 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:28:45
Dean (7) mygoaltv.org ( very good quality.) firstrowsports.eu
Soren Moyer
21 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:28:58
Looks like we're going for a point today!
Kim Vivian
22 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:29:15
That'll pay out £5.05 Colin. I was looking last night.

So-Frank is definitely for keeping Gordon here. Good to see McNeil on the bench. Power puff midfield, very lightweight, but Onana should get a decent shift I reckon.

Still seeing a draw but if we can get some balls into the box at least Rondon might scuff one in.

Geoff Lambert
23 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:30:02
Looks like he will wait till we are behind then bring Onana on for the last 10 minutes.
Very Bottom 5 team this.
Colin Glassar
24 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:30:08
Onana is not 100% fit, according to Lampard. What do you want? Him to come on and pull a hammy after 15 mins? Thank fuck we are not the manager. To many Xbox experts on here. Or is it PlayStation?
Raymond Fox
25 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:32:23
Give it a rest moan, moan, moan, it was obvious Onana wasn't going to start. He's playing Gordon.

With the exception of McNeil, who else is he going to start?

Kevin Naylor
26 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:32:31
Not sure you need to be an Xbox/Playstation expert to know Rondon's capabilities.
Ian Edwards
27 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:32:38
I don't like this wingback system when the wingbacks are defenders and we have two holding mids. Plus... looking at the midfielders and forwards, it's very weak. Davies, Iwobi, Gordon, Gray, Rondon.

Reality is the team we are putting out today is a Bottom 3 side and anyone disputing that is deluding themselves.

Brian Murray
28 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:33:34
For a young manager, he's terrified of relying on youth or trying something brave. Could be the waiter's son in that respect.

This was primed for Mills to make a name for himself. Ah well... let's limp to the end of the window and grind out what we can. 12 more points at stake, we already threw away six IMO .

Colin Glassar
29 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:33:40
Last season quite a few on here were saying Mykolenko and Patterson were shite and a waste of money. Now it seems to be McNeil, who was touted quite a lot on here last season and the season before. How times change.
Fran Mitchell
30 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:34:16
Not what I expected. Gordon sttarting, okay, he is still our main man. But no Onana? That is a surprise. And Gbamin on the bench? Why? Dele on the bench?

Anyway, we should win this game. Forest are a mixed bag of players who don't know eachother. Get in their faces, press, and get an early goal.

Hoping Gray can find his form. And maybe for Gordon to stick a few mil on his price tag.

Tarkowski to score. Patterson to score. 2-0.

Duncan McDine
31 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:34:50
Kevin 18 - ridiculous comment. Of course we will set up cautiously when we only have one striker in the squad (and it's a stretch to call Rondon a striker tbh).

Questioning Lampard's bottle is beyond daft. Come on, Blues, let's get the first 3 points on the board.

Brett Jonathan
32 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:35:01
Onana not quite as good as Tom Davies. Ouch.
John Kavanagh
33 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:35:30
Colin @24. I agree.

Given our dreadful injury record, the last thing we should do is select players who aren't fully fit. Starting Onana is just asking for a lengthy hammy/tendon layoff. Best to get his match fitness up and introduce him gradually, much as I'd like like to see him start.

James Gardner
34 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:35:48
Interesting definition of debacle. Not starting after having only one full week training.

I really don't get the negativity, why not be reactive vs proactive?

Kev Jones
35 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:35:52
Good pick by Frank. Sticking with the formation in which we have looked solid.

No Onana to start as Frank said he is not yet up to Premier League speed. In the absence of alternatives, and as we are playing a lot of long balls, Rondon will give us a focal point up top.

Derek Taylor
36 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:36:11
All we can hope is for this mess of a line-up to take an early lead – then our 5-man defence might hold on for a point. If we go behind, it will be curtains!
Kevin Naylor
37 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:36:21
McNeil only played 2 games but disappointing and dropped, still time but personally I'm not optimistic.
Marc Hints
38 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:39:17
Anyone have any links?
Colin Glassar
39 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:39:44
I think TW needs a resident psychiatrist on match days. Is there a doctor in the house?

And I don't need an Xbox or a PlayStation to realise Rondon is a shadow of his former self but he's all we've got thanks to the two incompetent fuckers who own the club! Not Lampard's fault.

Kevin Naylor
40 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:41:23
Duncan 30, Joe Royle once said that he'd rather be a lucky manager than a good one, I believe (happy to be corrected if it wasn't him). Frank doesn't take any risks to have any luck IMO.

Also, if you don't agree with my comment, fair enough… but ridiculous? I'm sure I'm not the only one that believes that.

Will Mabon
41 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:42:31
Marc, hit the Live Forum in a few minutes, all the magicians are in there.
Rob Jones
42 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:43:02
Oh boy.

Another brave team selection...

Kunal Desai
43 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:43:28
Gray stuggling in the warm up apparently.

Dropping like flies not even 3 games in. What do they do at FF?

Simon Dalzell
44 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:44:10
Marc (38) See my post at 20. for stream

Midfield looks very lightweight.

Will Mabon
46 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:46:32
This strange, modern way of team lineup and tactics. where it seems to be believed that a win or result can only be achieved or maintained in the last 20 minutes.

What happened to having a go early, getting on the front foot? Guess I know nothing.

Bill Gall
47 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:48:32
Not surprised he hasn't started Onana, his last game was with the national team in June, and as Lampard said they wanted to see his fitness in training, and not rush him.
Will Mabon
48 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:49:02
Simon, I concur with that particular sleight of hand; usually delivers. Any probs, try servers 2 & 3.
Brian Murray
49 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:51:08
Just had a look at the Live Forum. Take away my belt n shoelaces, I'll stick to this.
Simon Dalzell
50 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:54:50
Will 48. Your concurrence is welcomed.
Will Mabon
51 Posted 20/08/2022 at 14:57:05
But now struggling with that one Simon... think some adjustment has occurred...!
Danny Baily
52 Posted 20/08/2022 at 15:26:49
Plenty of possession, don't look like scoring and making sloppy errors at the back. The script for this writes itself.
Sean O’Hanlon
53 Posted 20/08/2022 at 15:34:16
Forest dominate Everton's midfield - 65-75% possession

Forest score before HT

Everton run around like headless chickens first 10 minutes of second half - achieve nothing

Forest score 2nd goal.

Everton frustrated have a man sent off (this could be Pickford)

Everton manage a lucky goal - possible Forest OG - 5 minutes to go.

Forest score breakaway goal.

Final score: Everton 1 Forest 3.

Ciarán McGlone
54 Posted 20/08/2022 at 15:50:42
Well it's better than last week.

Iwobi having a good game in the deeper central role. Looks far better with other players in front of him. Gray having a decent game too. Nice to see some shots from outside the box for a change.

The worry is Tarkowski. That half is up there with the worst of Michael Keane. He needs to take his head out of his arse.

As for Rondon. Complete waste of a shirt. Stick another midfielder on.

Alan J Thompson
55 Posted 20/08/2022 at 15:53:13
A bit more entertaining game if less technical quality about it. Good to see us having more shots when the opportunity arises while Forest's build up is so laboured.

Rondon is keeping their central defenders more in position but he is still rubbish and looks slow in everything he does, is there absolutely nobody else we can play there?

Jerome Shields
56 Posted 20/08/2022 at 15:55:18
Tarkowski needs to get it together, had a poor first half. Everton have benefitted by having a full forward. Though Rondon is relatively ineffective. Iowbi outstanding. A lot better than previous games.
Jim Bennings
57 Posted 20/08/2022 at 15:59:35
Pretty much the same as most home games, lots of early bluster but no punch at the end of what moves we do put together.

Probably one goal for either side wins this game.

Iwobi playing out of his skin, Gray not doing too bad, Gordon lots of running but I smell a red card coming.

Need to be getting this won today when you take a glance at the upcoming fixtures.

Christine Foster
58 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:00:23
Wasn't a bad first half, we are better playing with a striker as it gives Gray and Gordon space, Rondon has had a few nice layoffs but isn't in the mix of it in the box.

Iwobi is playing very well, winning ball and setting up attacks. Tarkowski is having a poor game giving the ball away with indecision. Davies should have had at least two... we should be well up by now.

Second half to come... Dele, Onana on me thinks? Davies and Rondon off?

Fran Mitchell
59 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:01:51
Tarkowski is looking very uncomfortable with the pass it out the back style and running himself into trouble.

In general, we look much better organized than previously.

Just useless in the final third. Rondon in 1/4 of a striker. We get so far and run out of ideas, slow down, and then run out of space.

Coady looks a really good signing. Iwobi is the most improved player in the league. And Davies looks half decent. Grey and Gordon look like they can cause trouble, but lacking that little bit of X-factor.

We can win this, but how to change the attack with our options is the real challenge. We will likely rely on set-pieces.

Andrew Merrick
60 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:03:13
God we need a centre-forward, fast, with better finishing could be 2 up..

Tarkowski not liking the left side at all, maybe switch the back 3 around...

Let's see Onana in the 2nd half please.

Ciarán McGlone
61 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:06:15
The half time music at Goodison is atrocious. I hope we drop all this teary eye pap when we move.
Christy Ring
62 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:09:20
Desperately lacking a striker, and hopefully we'll get one before the window closes, and with a fit Onana, play an attacking formation with a back four.
Ciarán McGlone
63 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:25:49
Onana is going to get sent off every week.
Rob Jones
64 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:33:35
This is soul-crushingly poor.
Kunal Desai
65 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:36:59
Dire stuff. Looking good for a point though against the mighty Forest.
Jack Convery
66 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:38:21
The Tiger that came to tea is a marvellous book. However the follow up The Shark that Came to Lunch but forgot his Dentures, was a sad disappointent.
Jerome Shields
67 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:41:44
McNeil is lightweight. He put Everton under pressure with that poor pass. Rondon should have been kept on to keep shape. Once Everton gone deeper, they have to play more to get forward.
Kevin Molloy
68 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:42:06
Thelwell needs to start drawing up a list of likely candidates.
Dean Williams
69 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:43:47
As per usual, the dick in goal can't manage to push it wide. The lad is useless.

We're going down for sure. Lampard gone by October.

Mark Frere
70 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:47:34
Dean, Pickford is guilty of it so many times!
Jerome Shields
71 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:49:01
Gray gives Frank a Get Out Of Jail card.
Sean O’Hanlon
72 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:49:10
How can a professional footballer taking a corner put it straight behind for a goal-kick?

An Everton player can, that's who.

Rob Jones
73 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:49:10
Thank fuck for that.
Jim Bennings
74 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:53:52
Honourable mentions to Gray and Iwobi.

The rest were so frustratingly average it's unbelievable, once again we have to go behind to start playing with a bit of gusto.

Unless we sign more attacking players with punch then a long hard slog of a season is beckoning.

Kunal Desai
75 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:55:03
Forest must be disappointed to let a lead slip so late on.
Mark Andrews
76 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:55:15
Jerome Shields
77 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:56:33
We needed a result in that game. A draw is good enough. Full crisis mode avoided.

Back to the transfer team. Get your collective fingers out this coming week!

Ciarán McGlone
78 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:56:45
Feels like a win. Point on the board.

I can't believe Pickford is getting blamed for that goal. Patterson clearly at fault.

Mark Andrews
79 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:56:57
Man Utd are the most catastrophically run club in the league.

Everton 'hold my beer'.

Lester Yip
80 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:58:48
The game just showed why Onana needs a bit more time to adapt to the pace of the Premier League.

I think Rondon did well when he was on. That turn and shoot was close.

And so did Davies. Unlucky he wasn't able to get a touch on that cross.

Lester Yip
81 Posted 20/08/2022 at 16:59:57
Pickford has been brilliant. If it's not him, we would have a couple of goals down already thanks to Tarkowski.
Paul Smith
82 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:00:31
Why take the only striker off is puzzling. Davies was okay and Iwobi and Gray. McNeil was poor.

No idea what our best 11 is but we need a striker.

Kieran Kinsella
83 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:01:05

I agree. Pickford, Tarkowski, McNeil, Onana – all error strewn. Everyone seems to shoot like Osman: on target but weak. But psychologically a point and a goal give us a lift. We need though to get some attackers in asap this week – not wait until deadline day.

Danny Baily
84 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:02:31
Won't be many more points coming in before October...

Today's result might be the end of Frank.

George Cumiskey
85 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:03:10
Please please please Chelsea come back with an offer for Gordon 🙏🙏🙏
Ernie Baywood
86 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:03:24
I feel like there'll be unusually consistent agreement on that game from Evertonians.

We need a striker. Onana might need time to adjust. McNeil was again underwhelming. The two that came on didn't improve on the two that went off.

I thought Gray and Iwobi were our best. Gordon continues to be Gordon - exciting, hard working, struggles with end product.

Shame that some of our best chances fell to Tom but I thought he played pretty well.

At least we've scored a goal.

Kunal Desai
87 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:06:33
Dwight McNeil confirms my initial thoughts.


Mike Gaynes
88 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:07:50
Agree, Ernie, Gray and Iwobi were superb.

I'm all for taking Chelsea's offer at this point. Gordon should have won the game.

Onana is clearly a talent... and also clearly not ready for the big time. We'll have a great player there in a few months, but patience will be required.

Alan J Thompson
89 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:07:59
The first half lacked technical quality and the second was even worse.

Lampard nearly threw all the points away with the stupid substitutions. It's the hour almost, send on the subs.

Okay, so Rondon was rubbish so let's do what didn't work in the other two games and play three wingers. Each time one of them broke, they couldn't do anything with it as there was nobody to give it to.

He might at least have kept Davies, who'd been having a good game, replaced Rondon with Iwobi and played Onana in his role but, after his promising cameo last week, looked out of his depth today. McNeil looks a total waste of money... and £45Mill for Gordon, take it!

Thank heavens that Pickford knows how turn provider.

I won't get carried away with a point against a poor Forest side but a decent big striker must be a priority if we want to see something from, at least, two of the three wingers.

Mediocrity, we should be so lucky!

Christy Ring
90 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:08:00
A new striker before next Saturday, the first 3 games have shown that.

To blame Lampard is a bit rich, Moshiri and Kenwright deserve all the flak.

As for the goal, Pickford getting the abuse, but how slow was our defence to react to the save?

Pat Kelly
91 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:08:05
As I said last week:

McNeil looks a poor buy.

We still have time to sell Gordon.

Lampard is all talk but a shocking manager.

Michael Kenrick
92 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:08:06
Well, that was madcap stuff.

I think George is right about Gordon. He was given every opportunity to show his ineptitude as a forward and he did indeed seriously disappoint.

How many chances did he have? How many goals should he have scored?

Will Mabon
93 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:08:24
I think McNeil looks shell-shocked, Ernie - and very leggy. He was less mobile than Davies and Rondon, the players taken off. I thought the substitutions actually disrupted the flow.

Onana saw the reality this afternoon and will need sharpening up.

Pace and intent was good but we so lack any cutting edge.

Tom Bowers
94 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:08:51
A very predictable result and most of us knew it from the beginning. With a line up like that, we all knew scoring one goal would be all we could hope for but, as usual, we wait for the opposition to show the way.

Onana looks very nervous and may take time to adjust to the demands of the Premier Leaguebut there is no excuse for some of the others.

Unable to get much from the first three games sounds like it's going to be a long hard struggle once again and I suspect that Lampard may not be around at the end.

He started with Rondon who is a rank amateur but, having said that, Lampard has very little else... but surely the lads who went out on loan and Dele Alli could do better than Rondon.

Something is seriously wrong and nobody at the club seems to give a monkey's about it.

Garry Martin
95 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:10:09
No improvement from last season, we'll be in the bottom 3 come Sunday night.

Upcoming games will anchor us to the bottom.

We have no creative play and the new players we brought in are as bad as the rest of squad 2023 will see us relegated.

Tony Twist
96 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:12:22
Shambles but what does everyone really expect. I'm tired of this, after 53 years. Best of luck to you all.
Lester Yip
97 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:13:12
I can see the passing is much better. More one-touch passes as players get into positions of forming triangles and the ball moves faster.

So far, defending set-pieces is better. I can see improvement.

But I feel Gray and Gordon have been trying too hard to dribble for a shot while ignoring the striker when running channels. Not enough crosses into the box.

Jim Harrison
98 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:18:33
Put a decent striker in this team and things look a whole lot more rosy.

Not as soft in the middle but toothless up front.

Thought Gray had his best game in some time. Looked a far more valuable player than the £50 million lad!

Also thought Rondon put in a shift. He is limited, but pressed. You could see him trying to encourage others to step up pressure in the press. But, for all his effort, he is still no more than a back-up sub.

Iwobi was very good again. Really put in the leg work.

Peter Hopkins
99 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:23:03
We have a midfield of Iwobi and Davies, give Onana time to settle and get a striker, not Rondon.

We have the makings of a good side, just need one or two gaps filling. It is frustrating but we have wasted our money and now need to do deals, like this kid from Ajax.

Lester Yip
100 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:23:25
Iwobi is running the show. His energy, doing so much lifting for both attacking and defending. Who would have thought that a year ago!

The same way, we should give McNeil time. He's been doing well at Burnley for the team (not necessarily shown up as goals or assists), I believe he'll come good.

After this game, I hope Gueye's move is not off yet. Onana might suit better to play as a No 8 than a No 6. He likes to go to ground and will give away a lot of free kicks around the box.

Mal van Schaick
101 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:24:04
At the moment, it's not cutting it with me. Huffing, puffing with no decent strikers will lead to more of the same trouble as last season, and as long as we continue to play Holgate and Davies we will not make any progress at all. Sell them or loan them out.

On the plus side if we buy/loan two good strikers we do have enough creativity if the midfield give them service, as long as midfielders recognise that their job is to create and not play up top with them.

Kieran Kinsella
102 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:25:30
Frank has improved the defense. Some have short memories as the last few years we conceded on every corner.

He's also improved passing and movement. What we lack is due to the board's financial ineptitude forcing us to sell our best attacker.

As for the selection? Rondon was garbage, he couldn't run two yards on several occasions when he could have scored. No point keeping him on if he's useless and we did score after he was subbed so how was that a bad move?

Ray Jacques
103 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:25:52
Another relegation battle looms, that was abysmal.

Who to blame, the owner, the chairman, the director of football, the manager or the players? Truth is, they are all complicit to differing degrees in the decline, stagnation and decay of Everton Football Club.

I don't see any hope, I honestly don't... after 50 years of support, it's same old cycle of failure.

I need to go to my happy place for a pint or two.

Tony Hill
104 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:30:03
Ray, agreed. The same old wearying pattern, time after time.
David Connor
105 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:31:42
Unless we get in a striker or 2 who can hit the ground running, we are almost certs for the drop. That is one piss poor football team.

We could be looking for another manager sooner rather than later. I like Lampard but he is one shit-scared manager. Carbon copy of last season. Nothing has changed.

Paul Smith
106 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:36:19

That doesn't need answering, mate. They scored once we made the subs; they never previously. See how presenting things in a certain way works.

In my opinion, it was a stupid decision to take our only striker off. McNeil and Onana were both ineffectual. Davies was much better.

Dean Williams
107 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:37:15
McNeil makes Rondon look fast.
Ciarán McGlone
108 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:38:28
I cannot believe that Rondon failing to hit the target from the edge of the box is being lauded as a positive... it's really quite funny.
Kim Vivian
110 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:44:07
Paul - you can only know that with the benefit of hindsight. I couldn't find a decent link so only saw the game in a sort of time-lapse view but, by all accounts, we hadn't managed anything much in the first hour or so and last week Onana made a difference.

Lampard's not a soothsayer.

Shane Corcoran
111 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:44:26
I was annoyed Onana didn't start but I'm glad the manager has more sense.

Unless Rondon couldn't jog, he should have been left on longer.

I'm all for giving young lads time but it's fair to say that considering he's got plenty of Premier League experience, McNeill needs to improve.

Poor day for Tarkowski but we got a point when it looked like we wouldn't score if we were there for a week.

Our attackers need some weights on their thigh muscles to get some semblance of power behind their shots.

Christy Ring
112 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:46:20
Gordon and Gray between them had 8 shots on target, neither a striker. Rondon has no pace, did well to last an hour.

You could see Onana was not fit, as Lampard said, so getting rid of the manager, totally ridiculous. Others mentioning we should have brought in Cooper, O yeah, he's spent nearly £150M this summer, that sums it up.

Jim Lloyd
113 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:47:35
I think there is an improvement in defence, the two fullbacks are progressing well, the three centre-halves looked good until the last 15 minutes or so.

Tarkowski had a bit of a wobbly game, but Coady and (didn't think I'd be saying this) Holgate were excellent. Our goalkeeper made a mess of whatever he was trying to do for their goal.

Our defence came under concerted pressure in the last 15 mins or so but I think that was down to the midfield becoming a bit dysfiunctional. Understandable that Onana was a bit lost and rather gangly; but he nearly got himself sent off, if his rugby tackle had connected. No doubt he needs time to get used to the Premier League. Iwobi was excellent.

I was chuffed to bits for Gray, as he looked a lot more like the lad we saw until he got injured. McNeil looked fast today and let's see how he fits in.

From my seat in the Upper Bullens, I was thinking that, if Chelsea were offering around £50 million for Gordon, I think it would be well worth selling him for.

Rondon had one decent shot but, really, I thought he was isolated up front.

I didn't think we were abysmal, as Ray did. I imagined at the beginning of the season, we'd struggle to stay away from the relegation zone and I think we will. That to me, is our Number One objective. If we get some more good players in to make me change my view, I'll be delighted.

Let's see who we can get in the next 11 days or so.

Danny Baily
114 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:50:11
Lampard sets the team up. The DoF seemingly prioritised midfield over getting a striker in. Yet people blame the Chairman.

Sell Gordon, use the money to balance the squad and get a new manager in, sooner rather than later.

Ian Edwards
115 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:52:00
Too early to start sacking Lampard but he needs to grow a pair. 5 at the back is unacceptable, particularly at home to a newly promoted side.

Don't come at me saying they are wingbacks. Both Patterson and Mykolenko are full-backs. Brighton play wingers as wing-backs. Their Manager has balls.

Loaning out Simms was a huge error. He's big, powerful, pacy and can finish. Better than any of the lightweight wingers Lampard has thrown up front.

Lampard needs to ditch the negative team selections and pick teams to win games.

Blaming the board is fine but they don't select 5 defenders at home.

Ian Bennett
116 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:53:25
I was worried before the start of the season, and I was dead right.

Relying on Rondon is a joke. 100% on the board, a £500M stadium in the Championship.

Dwight McNeil proving ToffeeWebbers right. Played out of position, but looks bang average.

Dele and Gbamin on the bench, but may as well have been cardboard cut-outs.

Denis Richardson
117 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:55:08
A point and a first team goal. That's all we have to cheer about after three games…..Really clutching at straws now and that's not being down-hearted. Our results are almost irrelevant without a half-decent striker.

Now the game is over, eyes back to transfers. Nothing else matter at this stage.

If I were a betting man, I don't see Lampard being our manager season end. Yes ,he can only work with what he's got but he keeps making some very odd decisions. His in-game management is poor, which is worrying.

Jim Bennings
118 Posted 20/08/2022 at 17:58:18
Question regarding our signings.

Why do our signings never look ready?

Other clubs sign players and they hit the ground running.

Steavey Buckley
119 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:01:03
Everton average a point a game last season that gave Everton 38 points for the whole season. This season, so far, Everton are averaging 0.33 points a game, which will give Everton about 13 points at the end of this season. Dismal times and footballing matters not looking good. But are the natives getting restless?
Danny Baily
120 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:01:08
Ian, couldn't agree more. This is the first time I've really got the impression that Frank has a system in mind or a style of play, and it's rubbish. And having Gordon front and centre each week isn't doing him or the club any favours.

We'll need to pull off a suprise result on the road for Frank to stay in post. Otherwise we'll be waiting until October for a winnable game.

George Cumiskey
121 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:06:42
A lot on ToffeeWeb saying Davies had a good game, the problem for me is that, if he doesn't give a goal away, everyone thinks he's played well?

Very strange...

Bill Gall
122 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:10:36
Things that stood out:

Davies is not a goalscorer; Lampard was correct in saying Onana was not ready for the pace of the Premier League; and Gordon, if he wants to become the player he thinks he is, he will have to improve his goal-scoring attempts.

This was slightly better than the last couple of games and in the first half seemed slightly better having Rondon on, but he is definitely not the answer.

Lampard will be blamed but I don't know how many other managers have had to deal with so many injuries in critical defensive and forward positions. and be handicapped under the FFP ruling. We can't bring in another player for everyone who gets injured.

The first half we looked good and should have had a couple of goals but we didn't and the confidence seemed to drain out of them.

As far as Forest go, I watched them last week against the Hammers and I think their lucky 9 lives is going to end soon, and it should have ended today.

Alan J Thompson
123 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:11:17

You think Davies was our problem?

Comment on the game he played, not your bias against him.

Larry O'Hara
124 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:13:01
It's all opinions isn't it?

We had enough chances to have won by a hatful:

1) Rondon tried but too slow and isolated;

2)Both Gray and Gordon were selfish;

3) Gordon was trying too hard for whatever reason, easily knocked off the ball;

4) I didn't like intermittent gaps in midfield;

5) Davies was okay but I don't think Onana would have missed first-half chances he did;

6) We still haven't got the young striker we need, else we would have won;

7) We need to be patient with both Onana and McNeil.

Also have to say, despite some missed passes, Alex Iwobi was immense, like Beckenbauer on acid. Gray did some nice things too. But Iwobi was real class.

Bumped into two Americans at the end who'd never heard of ToffeeWeb, hope they show up here.

Finally, for those whingers, naysayers and professional doom merchants who want to get rid of Frank, I only have four words condensed into one: STFU…

Jay Harris
125 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:13:42
I see much improved and confident players.

I see a much more complete style of football.

What I don't see are any goalscorers and I don't see any strength in midfield.

Unless and until we rectify this, a relegation battle is looming.

Robert Tressell
126 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:16:07
Not a surprising result. Injury hit first XI isn't very good. The formation also forces a few square pegs into round holes too (and leaves us outnumbered in centre-midfield where we're not exactly dominant even when we have a central 3).

Not much will change till the striker situation is sorted.

I'd love to see some pragmatism from Frank and revert to a back 4 but looks unlikely.

George Cumiskey
127 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:16:37
Alan @ 147,

I never said Davies was the problem. I'm just surprised with the people who said he had a good game, again very strange...

Ian Riley
128 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:18:57
I said staying in the league will be an achievement. Three matches and 1 point. Oh boy, it's going to be a struggle.

Frank, please stop the players playing from the back. Either that or go! Your tactics today at home was to gain a point. Well done! Against a promoted team at home. I'm getting bored of the same, year-in & year-out!!

What is strange, fans are on a waiting list for season tickets to watch this!!!

Alan J Thompson
129 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:20:52

You think he had a poor game? Certainly right about something strange but you might find it nearer to home.

Duncan McDine
130 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:21:17
Larry, I like the cut of your jib.

Sensible words and good work on promoting TW. Good lad!

David Hallwood
131 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:21:53
Just been through all the posts 1-35, why is Davies preferred to Onana? Now we know, he's been in the country less than 2 weeks and has been thrown in to the most fiercely competitive league in the world, maybe that's why.

Somewhere around 50 calls for Lampard to be sacked, great idea let's start from scratch, new manager new backroom staff, that should stabilise us.

It must be remembered that Iwobi was the most reviled player who's ever worn the Blue. I thought he was the worst pound-for-pound signing ever; moral of the story – give them time and play them in positions they're comfortable in.

All-in-all, some good things on display, some not so good, I'll stick my neck out and say if we had a Lukaku or a Lineker, we might have won all three.

Kieran Kinsella
132 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:22:11
Define 'good'. Tom had several goal-scoring opportunities so caught attention. But he didn't score.

If Pickford had several opportunities to make saves but instead conceded, would we say “Well that's good he got himself in a position where he could have made a save”?

George Cumiskey
133 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:23:03
Alan, are you talking about the two sitters he missed? Very strange. 👍
Danny Baily
134 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:26:26
Jay, this is a relegation battle.

I posted before the game that, if this fixture was in May, we'd have been greeting the team bus with flares. It was a must-win game, even if that hasn't yet dawned on Frank and the team, and we drew.

Alan J Thompson
135 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:27:53
No, George, his overall game. He might have missed two for which he got in position and was more than others but he seemed to be playing mostly a defensive midfield role, or were you expecting him to show more prominently up front?

Very strange view you have, George, and so contrary to a lot of others but what does that matter when you are so convinced he did little right.

Kevin Molloy
136 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:30:21
Frank doesn't get a pass when we're as flat as a pancake. He's had the Richarlison money since the end of June. He chose to spend that money on a central midfielder and a winger. And got rid of our two other forwards to the division below.

So if we haven't got a proper striker, that's his fault. But it's deeper than just personnel. He's made the decision that we need to be a back five, cos we don't have the quality to play as a 4.

That decision right there then negates our two best players, Gray and Gordon. No longer needed cos we will be playing wingbacks. He's also bought another fucking right-sided centre-back to add to the four we already have and asked him to play on the left in a three, something he's never done before.

The effect of this is we line up against newly promoted Forest at home in a must-win game with five at the back, and no forwards. And promptly do nothing all game.

People need to wake up. We are comfortably the worst team in the Premier League. We got whooped by a desperate Ason Villa who have had their arse handed to them in their other two games. We should have lost again today to a team that has integrated 10 new players over the last 10 days.

I can understand people not wanting to contemplate change, but the longer we leave it, the worse it's going to get.

George Cumiskey
137 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:34:42
You're right, Alan, he's one of ours – let's give him a new contract. 👍
Brian Williams
138 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:40:43
The effect of this is we line up against newly promoted Forest at home in a must-win game with five at the back, and no forwards. And promptly do nothing all game.

Kevin, did you watch the game? To suggest we did nothing is rubbish.
We were the better side, by far, for 75 to 80 minutes of the game. In the first half especially, we played some good football.

We created lots of chances, which on another day two or three would have gone in. They hardly threatened at all but got a break in Pickford's save falling straight to one of their players.

I repeat, to say we did nothing, is rubbish.

Ian Edwards
139 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:40:45

Can't disagree with most of what you say except Bournemouth are the worst team.

Kevin Molloy
140 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:47:25

I listened to the game, we started brightly and slowly ran out of gas. Forest were comfortable by the half hour mark and by the last quarter of the game were the only team who were going to win.

This is a team who the previous week against Newcastle were ran ragged and didn't have a shot on target.

Steve Stanway
141 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:49:29
God you have got to love idiots who constantly knock Davies but he was 10 times better that Onana who just tried to get sent off.

He should have learnt from last week but I guess not

Ray Jacques
142 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:56:37
We can't sack Lampard, that would be another failure of recruitment by our madcap owner.

Looking at upcoming fixtures and expected results, I don't see him being here by mid November however.

Jeff Armstrong
143 Posted 20/08/2022 at 18:59:21

McNeil completely out of form

Onana not up to speed

Simms not even available or likely to be, unproven too.

Rondon enough already said.

Oh and it’s too.

Brent Stephens
144 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:00:58
Ian, Simms's Premier League record is...?

Steve Stanway
145 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:02:12
My team ratings:

Pickford - 7
Patterson - 6
Holgate - 6
Coady - 6
Tarkowski - 5
Mykolenko -6
Davies - 7
Iwobi - 8
Gordon - 6
Gray - 7.5
Rondon - 6

Onana - 4
McNeil - 5

Jeff Armstrong
146 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:04:26
ALL minus’s Steve ???🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sean Kelly
147 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:04:27
Frank doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Packing defence and midfield will not win games.

Maybe Chelsea and derby found that out too.

Steve Stanway
148 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:07:48
I don't think we were that bad but we really miss a good spearhead forward who can score a goal in the Premier League as I don't remember Rondon doing that for us and he is the only striker.
David Bromwell
149 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:08:01
If we are to persist with 5 at the back, they have to play better and contribute more. The two wing backs have to play further forward and brought into play more often. And something was wrong today when we won a corner, in spite of us having the three centre-backs up.

Overall clearly just work in progress and, in fairness, not any noticeable improvement on last season's early season form.

Jim Lloyd
150 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:08:05
I thought Davies played well in most aspects of his game. He fluffed a couple of chances, but he wasn't alone in that.
Steve Daniells
151 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:08:41
Hello all,

Long time listener, first time caller. I have genuinely loved this site for decades and finally decided to join the conversation.

To the game, I thought we played well. The passing was crisp, the pressing was good, the shape was good, and we had willing runners into space. We had none of that under Benitez.

I’m not a fan of the 3 at the back, but we do look much more solid with it. Coady was really good today, and Holgate put in a very mature, controlled performance. Tarky was the weak link today - very loose at times that almost let them in. Having said that, it seemed that his was often the head that cleared the corners and crosses, and I feel a lot less nervous with him at the back vs Keane. Patterson and Mykolenko were solid. Not sure where Nathan was for their goal, but otherwise, a decent performance from both given they’re still finding their feet in the PL.

Midfield - Davies was ok. We looked more disjointed after he went off. Onana, oh boy… someone said on the Live Forum he reminded them of Fellaini when we first arrived, and totally agree. He’s going to get a few cards this season.

Iwobi was superb. Best player for us - never seemed to lose control, never misplaced a pass, always available, and you see his team-mates looking for him all the time. He was like Zidane. He made us tick.

Goldilocks Gordon… he looked like he was trying too hard or not trying hard enough. He’ll get it just right soon and then we’ll have a player. I want him to stay.

Gray. Hot and cold. Took his goal really well, maybe he can go on another little early season goal spree like last year.

McNeill… looks really short of confidence and overthinking things. He could have played defence splitting passes at times but ended up over or under cooking them. But he’s got a good left foot and I’ll give him time. Maybe take him off corners for the season though…

Rondon - He’s rubbish. I wish we had never signed him, but he does know how to play as a centre forward and did ok today. The shape and focus definitely deteriorated after he went off.

We have a style and a shape. The defence looks solid, Iwobi is a revelation. Just need that barn storming striker and we’ll be in business.

As for the calls for Lampard out, not me. I have a feeling we may upset Brentford next time out (we bloody need to and get more points on the board).

Steve Stanway
152 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:10:21

We don't have any forwards so Frank can't pick a forward... or do you know something we all don't know about!!!

Barry Rathbone
153 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:12:14
I had to laugh at the sky presenter reporting that Everton came from behind for a draw in the CHAMPIONSHIP!!

She did correct herself but a Freudian slip if ever there was one.

We know we're poor but the question is are we fully motivated giving it a right old go showing signs of turning things round or just maintaining the "talk the talk" bluff that has become our MO?

If the former, Frank will get leeway; if not, he's doomed.

Tony Hill
154 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:12:31
Welcome, Steve @151.
Jack Convery
155 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:17:16
God to see fresh blood on the site.
Joe McMahon
156 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:17:32
Just got back. Disappointed but not surprised, again. Grand Old Team eh!
Christy Ring
157 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:19:10

You didn't even see the game?

So you think we didn't need another midfielder. As for letting 2 strikers go to Championship clubs, Simms played for Hearts last season and Broadhead played in League One, a big comedown from the Premier League.

As for the money we got for Richarlison, every signing Lampard has made is structured over 3/5 years because of FFP. He couldn't buy Cornet because Burnley wanted the £17.5M upfront which we couldn't do, so Lampard is definitely not the problem.

Danny O’Neill
158 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:20:32
Well, what to make of that?

A long day that started at 4am. No complaints, took the dogs out and navigated my way through the industrial action to get to Lime Street in good time. Now on the National Express coach heading back. I estimate being home 2am latest.

Good to bump into Stephen and then Dave and Bill. As well as Carol. Sorry I didn't meet up with others. Tight timings today. Next time.

I'll get the controversial bit out of the way first as I doubt it will sit well with many. I actually thought it was an enjoyable game of football if I take my Everton glasses off. End to end stuff, especially in the latter stages. We go to be entertained as much be traumatised right?! Decent noisy atmosphere as well with Goodiaon basking in the sun and a blustery wind. The flag on top of the Bullens Road was hanging on at times.

On Everton, the glaring obvious was clear. We were a striker away from winning that relatively comfortably. It needs addressing.

I'll go through some opinions on individual players.

Pickford was a bit flappy again and his kicking often aimless. Good stop in the build up to their goal. Maybe harsh so l'll wait until I watch back, but could he sometimes hold it?

I think Pattetson will grow. I'm liking what I see.

Mykolenko didn't have his best game. I wonder that if we're going to stick with this formation, he's better suited on the left of the 3 rather than as wing back?

We're going to have to be patient with Onana and he could do with a wise head in there. Would Allan have helped?

Doumary Gray can be a threat. Pace and drive. But needs to learn when to look up and release. Great run on to the direct ball for the equaliser. I dared him not to balls it up. I think I would have jumped out of my front row seat in the Upper Gwladys if he had.

Same with Anthony Gordon. He's a great player and still developing, but just doesn't seem to have a finish in him. My word, that was a gilt edged chance at the end but he fluffed his lines. For someone of his ability, a cute loft would have done it. But he lacked composure and made the keeper look good by hitting him in the chest.

This may also not go down too well, but Rondon actually gave us something to aim for when he was on. His hold up play and use of strength when chesting the ball into the path of midfield runners was a theme until he went off. He clearly lacks the 2nd ball ability so isn't the answer, but credit where due.

Why are officials ignoring blatant and deliberate shirt pulling? Pet hate and that's 2 weeks in a row for us now where its gone unpunished.

Final thought. I noted that Anthony Gordon cut an isolated figure at the end. He stayed on the half way line for quite a while before eventually joining the rest of the players. Could be something, could just be frustration at that miss.

Final word goes to the young lady in the place on the corner next to the National Express bays at the Liverpool 1 bus station.

Coach was delayed, I got fed up waiting so went in to order a drink and snack as I could keep an eye on the bus station from the window seats there.

Sods law, the coach turns up as I'm waiting, so I told her to leave it even though I'd paid. Bless her, she came out with a doggy bag for me a few minutes later as I was boarding!!

I'm away for the next few weeks. Next up for me will be Arsenal away. Let's get the voodoo dolls out and breat that hoodoo. But I'll be watching the other matches, just on TV and US Eastern time.


Alec Gaston
159 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:22:38
Steve @151,

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Oliver Molloy
160 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:28:24
Why do some folk think that we can recall Simms from a season-long loan to Sunderland? This will not happen.

We should have won today – end of story, Big 2 points dropped.

Raymond Fox
161 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:30:45
It's unbelievable isn't it, we've had more managers than hot dinners and some are calling for Frank's head already. Give us a break, some good its done us, what.

The result was no suprise, we have an average team that with a couple of the right players could become a decent one. That's the hard bit, they have to be quality and want to come to us, they don't grow on trees.

I've every confidence in Lampard if he is given a squad that is good enough.

Brent Stephens
162 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:31:52
Steve #151 - welcome to TW posting. After that post, I hope you post more often.
Danny O’Neill
163 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:34:51
Welcome Steve. Good, accurate calls on Coady and Tarkowski. That's how I saw it. Coady is a captain. I think Tarkowski has leadership qualities. He just looked jittery today.

Joe, I also noted they did play Grand Old Team at the end. Forever Everton was preferred.

I must mention Iwobi. I'd actually say he was our best player over the 90. Not for what we expect of him on the ball. His work rate and winning the ball back in midfield stuck out for me. I don't know if anyone else thought that??

Steve Stanway
164 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:36:39
We should still have Simms or another forward which we loaned out who can be in the team or on the bench to replace Rondon as we are not good enough to play without a target man.

When we have signed someone better than our loaned-out players, then I agree all our young forwards need experience and being loaned is the best.

Peter Neilson
165 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:41:03
Positive first 30 minutes but we desperately need at least one striker who can hit the ground running (need to be available on instalment payment plans) and/or coaching other attackers and midfield to be a threat (not going to happen overnight).

Both seemingly difficult mountains but essential as we can't afford to write off the first 6+ games of the season through Calvert-Lewin's injury. Looks like this will be a long season.

Everything else, formation, Gordon v Rondon v McNeil etc is purely academic. We're pretty much toothless.

Ciarán McGlone
166 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:44:29
I think Mr Molloy at 136 is spot on, unfortunately.

The problem all our recent managers have had is failing to learn from their mistakes. Repeating their various pet tactics in the hope they'll eventually work – in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary.

Lampard's pig-headed insistence on a 5-man defence is going to be his downfall.

I'm willing to give him time but I fear the writing is already on the wall.

Steve Daniells
167 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:50:15
Thanks for the welcome, folks.

Agree with Steve S at #164. I don't understand why we didn't keep Simms. Even if he turns out to be more Danny Cadamarteri than Graeme Sharp, at least Cadamerteri banged in a few goals when he first broke into the team…

Brent Stephens
168 Posted 20/08/2022 at 19:54:43
Steve #167 - you're posting far too much, mate!!
Steve Daniells
169 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:00:31
Brent: 20 odd years of sitting in the ToffeeWeb stands and now finally on the pitch and getting carried away…
Ian Riley
170 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:22:34
Rondon must play at present. He gives us structure and a target. Sorry, I don't want Frank sacked but we do look open to giving chances to the opposition. We can't keep clean sheets.

Negative results will decide the fate of any manager. Let's assess after 15 matches and a striker or two brought in. Perhaps it's the players not the tactics?

I am happy after today. A point closer to the magic total of 40!!

Neil Cremin
171 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:24:55

It is always a pleasure reading your measured comments.

You are a rock on TW.

Paul Smith
172 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:30:39
If Everton don't start winning games, Lampard will be sacked irrespective of who is to blame. He has to make do and get results, that's why he gets the big bucks.

As for the set up - Mykolenko is no wingback and Patterson is bedding in (needs to work on his crosses, they were poor today).

We might revert to a back 4 meaning Patterson might miss out with keeping Mason in there – since coming in has had a point to prove and is taking the opportunity.

The midfield should welcome Allan back to break up play and put Davies in front of him, he can actually pick a short clever pass (he's played well and deserves a chance) and Iwobi for his box to box ability and sheer energy can take and loose balls.

Gray and Gordon can link the midfield and attack, with Rondon up front until Calvert-Lewin gets back.


Brian Murray
173 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:30:46
We bought O'Neil I assume for his wand of a left foot, especially at set pieces. Can't be for any acceleration because he has none. So calls to take him off them... well, why play him?

We have suffered for years with little service even Digne wasn't producing or not often enough. Suppose that comes with good players who can at least beat the first man with a cross.

Brian Williams
174 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:32:12
Rondon - He's rubbish. I wish we had never signed him,

Well he wasn't rubbish today, mate. He won lots of balls, played long and brought the midfield into play with his lay-offs, mainly off his chest. He also received the ball just inside the box, swivelled quickly, and was mere inches wide of scoring.

If anything, the wingers not playing the ball into the box early let him down.

So rubbish? Not right, and not fair on today's showing.

Dave Abrahams
175 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:39:30
Steve (151) ,Welcome to ToffeeWeb.

I thought we started well with plenty of shots on goal with direct attacks and looked good for the first half an hour, in fact we should have been two up with those poor misses by Tom Davies he could have been the hero today he did a lot more things right than wrong.

We let Forest get on top in the last part of the first half without really look like scoring.

The second half was spoilt by the two substitutions, the only ones made by Frank, with neither of them being an upgrade on the players going off. Everton were not great but deserved to win the game, much better than the poor, to me, Forest team.

I don't like the five in defence that Frank seems to insist on and it's patently obvious Tarkowski is uncomfortable playing on the left side of it, Coady had a good game but I wouldn't mind betting he wouldn't have been as good on the left side either, a good reason to play Coady and Tarkowski together in a back four.

Rondon worked hard but is not the answer as a regular striker, Broadhead scored the winner for Wigan today for those who think Everton let all three possible candidates go when it might have been wiser to hang until nearer the transfer deadline.

It's obvious this present squad will make it very difficult for Everton to survive in the Premier League this season but hopefully three or four recruits are on their way to boost the energy and performances of our team.

Joe McMahon
176 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:44:40
My concern over several seasons, is the missed chances or chances not taken. A hungry skillfull team would take them and the points. In the closing stages last week at Villa and in the closing stages today, Gordon, (ah man why didn't he lob it).

I just don't see Anthony being the player we need/want. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the 2 bids (so far) that Chelsea have made are more than Liverpool paid for Sadio Mane. It's madness and we have to accept. Which one really is world class?

Danny O’Neill
177 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:45:46
I'll second that Brian Williams. I actually think we lost our shape when he went off. We were trying to play the same ball into the likes of Gordon, who clearly isn't built or can't do that.

It became more about hopi g we got behind the dance as for the goal and the Gordon chance.

We've all raised an eyebrow at Rondon, but that was a decent performance and shift today from my seat.

Mark Ryan
178 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:45:50
We were better than I thought we would be today. I thought we'd get undone by a buoyant "new" Forest but we were okay, not great but okay.

Let's wait and see what the week brings in terms of transfers. It looks as though Dele is away but again let's see how that develops. A good striker would give the whole team a lift so let's hope it happens.

Tony Hill
179 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:52:59
We should acknowledge that Forest lost the best player on the pitch, Orel Mangala, who was largely running the midfield before his injury. He cost them £12.7m.
Kieran Kinsella
180 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:55:50
Interesting poll on Reddit as to the root of our problems. 800 responses only 30 point at the manager which was probably Ian Kevin Darren and their families.

About 300 votes for the squad, slightly less the board, and in third place with 175 votes: a curse. I’d say that latter should count as board votes as the curse has a name.

Steve Daniells
181 Posted 20/08/2022 at 20:58:35
Brian & Danny, to be fair, I did give credit to Rondon for his performance today.

The full quote was: “Rondon - He’s rubbish. I wish we had never signed him, but he does know how to play as a centre forward and did ok today. The shape and focus definitely deteriorated after he went off.”

I was pleasantly surprised by his impact today and he could have had a goal. None of that changes my opinion that he’s generally rubbish and I do wish we had never signed him

Andy Meighan
182 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:01:29
Haven't read a single post on this thread, but I thought Onana was shocking when he came on. I honestly thought he was a yard away from a sending-off.

Contributed nothing offensively or offensively.

It may come or it may not but I thought he was ordinary myself.

Sean O’Hanlon
183 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:08:00
Embarrassing. This is how the season will pan out - scraping the odd jammy point and offering excuses for our manager. The difference this season is, there'll be no good runs of winning 5 or 6 on the bounce, so we can accumulate points – we're fighting relegation now, after only 3 games. which will become 5 games after Brentford and Liverpool.
Liam Mogan
184 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:20:10
Thought we were tactically inept today. We set up 10 yards too deep, sank into a heavily defensive block when Forest had possession and had far too many players behind the ball even when attacking.

The shape with only 2 in the middle allowed Forest to get a hold on the game after a lively first 20 mins. The ball over the top of a snail-like Forest back 4 was on from minute one. But it took until going behind to even look for it.

Once we started putting pressure on and played further up the pitch in the last 10 mins Forest looked shaky. If we had done that throughout the game I believe we would have won.

The strategic mindset was too negative against an average side. This, more than the obvious lack of firepower, worries me. It shows a lack of courage and in game management. Sad to say but Frank is starting to look out of his depth.

Colin Glassar
185 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:20:44
That's what happens, sometimes, when you throw players in at the deep end, Andy. Onana hasn't had a pre-season, isn't fully match fit but is expected, by some, to come in and boss games.
Christy Ring
186 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:23:36
Welcome Steve to ToffeeWeb.

Agree with Dave, Tarkowski is not the same commanding figure playing on the left, Frank has to change to a back four,

Onana needs to get up to speed, in a 3-man midfield and hopefully a new striker before next Saturday, will make us a more offensive team.

Mykolenko is a terrific left-back, he's lost as a wingback also.

Danny Baily
187 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:37:02

After today, the bookies have us in the bottom 3 at the end of the season. This is a relegation battle. And this time we won't have a good start to fall back on.

Paul Birmingham
188 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:37:37
Well a point is better than losing a game Everton should have put to bed early.

A lack of a striker, let's hope that 2 strikers arrive soon, and also for the final passes to be more meaningful and precise.

Patience is needed and then let's see, by the time this transfer window closes, the scope for Everton to improve.

Joe Digney
189 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:40:02
We could have Lewandowski up top and we'd still struggle to score, we don't create anywhere near enough clear-cut chances to win games due to a real lack of quality in the final third.

Putting a shift in and battling will only get you so far before the lack of genuine attacking quality and creativity comes to light, but with Frank persisting with the back 5, it basically eliminates having that extra man in midfield to find space and create anything.

Coady looks like he can only play in a back 5 while Tarkowski only looks like he can play in a back 4, the latter looked uncomfortable trying to bring it out on his left hand side all match.

Not sure what needs to change that's not our job as fans to know but we really lack a spark in the final third and Frank needs to find a solution asap because the games are only going to get harder.

Bill Gall
190 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:40:50
i watched the game over again ( glutton for punishment ) and came to the same conclusion. Rondon is not the answer for a regular striker but the team looked more compact with him at a regular #9 position, he kept the central defenders busy and was able to bring the forwards into the game. The first 35 min needed a goal as we looked a lot better than the previous 2 games. If Iwobi could add scoring to his efforts then we would be looking at another 50mill player, I don't know what the coaching staff are doing to help him, but I think some of the other players should try it.
I did not rate Forest as most of their efforts for goal came from our mistakes, that should not happen at the level we need.
Another point, I hope that all the supporters who said we should have started Onana, have realized now what the level of the premier league is for new players. He will get better.
Referee's Why is it a foul and yellow card for a player when he pulls a player down from behind, but it is only a foul the second time he does it.
Ian Riley
191 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:42:28
Paul#230 your right only 3 games gone but we were awful last season and we have continued that form. Frank must find a way soon to get three points or 3 games will be 10 with very few points. The start of last season saved us but our run since February is not good. Hopefully points are coming!!
Tony Hill
192 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:45:01
Yes, Danny @225, that good start kept us up. Just as well we didn't have the Kopite Dickhead in charge then.
Clive Rogers
193 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:45:34
This squad is in deep trouble and must be a favourite for relegation if we don’t make some good signings. Thelwell must take a lot of the blame. The players he has signed have not made us any better.
Paul Hewitt
194 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:53:54
It's a good job we didn't have social media in the early 80's. Kendall would never have kept his job.
Ray Smith
195 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:58:35
Everton linked with this, Everton linked with that!!!!
Bottom line, they are bullshitting the fans in respect of where we are going.
Richarlison out, no forwards in! Then again any decent striker would think twice before joining us.
Don’t blame Frank, BK and Moshiri is where the problem lies!!!
BK still trying to wheel and deal in a market where he is totally out of his depth. We have moved on, it’s a pity BK hasn’t.
We need a striker, end of.
DCL is a sick note regrettably, get rid of AG while the price is right, and settle for another season of mediocrity.
We will not move forward all the time BK is at the helm.
Hopefully it won’t come to it, but I wouldn’t blame Frank if he walked. God forbid he does, as a 6th manager in as many years says it all.
BK just go!!!
Nick White
196 Posted 20/08/2022 at 21:59:56
Until we finally get a decent striker in we aren’t going to be very good. Ellis Simms may be a great prospect and future great player but surely isn’t at the premier league level we need (otherwise why didn’t any premier league clubs come in for him)?

I firmly believe that if (??!!) we get a good striker in, the team will grow in confidence and actually get a top half finish. The building blocks are there with a solid spine that will improve each week.

Suggestions from some that Lampard should be sacked are just madness. We need to build with stability. Even if we had Pep/Klopp we’d still be terrible without a striker.

Brian Wilkinson
197 Posted 20/08/2022 at 22:03:25
Never been a fan of Tom Davies, but apart from the chances, I thought Davies had a decent game today, Iwobi yet again rolling his sleeves up, and up for the fight.

I try to be partial but I just do not see a centre forward in Rondon, nor any of our false number nines tried.

Can we honestly head into our next game, without a striker, we have had chances in all three games to take home all three points, to not bring one in before the start of the season is bad enough, but knowing full well Calvert-Lewin would be out for some Months, allow two of our young strikers to go out onloan, and 3 games in, still no centre forward brought in is nothing short of outrageous.

1 point out of a possible nine, and yet we still are no closer to landing a centre forward, the one area we were weakest most and still we dither.

Did I mention we need a striker, for Christs sake Everton, get it sorted.

David Pearl
198 Posted 20/08/2022 at 22:11:57
Seems a bit obvious to me and I'm probably wrong but if Chelsea get Auba then l think we get Broja and its him that we are waiting on.

On the game today I thought Tarky was crap and got lucky, Coady not that much better. Holgate has been very good for a while now though. Iwobi just getting better and better and his partnership with TD today showed a lot of promise. Rondon did his job, held the ball, won some headers and provided an out ball, even in the swirling wind. Gordon, and Gray for 87 mins were awful. In fact we have too many wingers. Non of them have that final ball or consistency that any top team needs. McNeil... he is also crap. Give me Dele Alli all day over any of them. In fact how about instead of 523 we play 532 and control the midfield better.

Shane Corcoran
199 Posted 20/08/2022 at 22:19:32
David you seem on the money except for Gray.

He’s not been good but you thought he was crap today? Can’t agree

Jason Li
200 Posted 20/08/2022 at 22:33:34
Just a couple of fast strikers away from a decent squad. No goal scorers always gives a low chance of a better goal difference in a match. So we don't want to do this every game.

If we have to be creative as Rondon can only last up to 70 minutes a game, in terms of a sub, well Onana is about as tall as Haaland, very quick and can go past players, will battle any ball in the air. Can he finish?

Anyway, let's hope a fast striker comes in so that the full backs and wingers can put the ball into space for them to go 1on1 with the centre back, which will change the attacking gameplan a lot more.

Spurs do this with Son and there's others like Salah who are always put in 1on1 opportunities.

We can't persist with Rondon anymore unless the team can continuously build up play and cross one into the penatly spot for Rondon to out-muscle his man and nod one in, over-and-over again.

David Pearl
201 Posted 20/08/2022 at 22:47:37
Shane, no l thought he was awful :)
Him and Gordon get in good positions and all that goes through their minds are to cut in and shoot. Its a team game but l don't think they get it. That final ball always let's us down and we will still struggle with a striker playing in between those two. Imo of course. Still optimistic that we can click and start to pick up points but that has to start very soon with our upcoming fixtures.
Soren Moyer
202 Posted 20/08/2022 at 22:51:24
I genuinely believe that the club has written off the first 7-8 games (which is utter madness) in the hope that DCL would be back and we will be alright after that!
This board of directors will relegate us eventually!
By the way, WE NEED 2 STRIKERS and a creative MF as minimum requirement.

John Raftery
203 Posted 20/08/2022 at 22:53:18
Our most effective players today were Holgate, Coady, Davies, Iwobi, Gray and Rondon. Five of those players were already at the club when Lampard arrived.

New players, especially young players, will inevitably take time to settle. In the meantime, we will need to be patient with them and a manager who is still learning his trade.

Roman Sidey
204 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:03:19
You cannot have (supposedly) £45M worth of talent missing chances, passing the ball to the opposition keeper and generally just not being good enough. If the club don't take Chelsea's next offer for Gordon, then they need to be run out of town with pitchforks.

And here's the thing that really sticks in my craw – when a player switches from a high number to a revered number like the 10 jersey, they should know it comes with the responsibility of improved performance.

Some fans will say it doesn't matter what number is on their back, but it obviously mattered to the player, so they should step up.

Neil Copeland
205 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:07:58
John, that's a good point about the new players, we need to be patient (again, yes I know).

It's also worth noting that Iwobi and Holgate have improved under Frank with Davies and Gray looking better today than they have for a while and even Rondon offered more than usual.

Throw a half-decent No 10 and a striker into the mix and I think we will be fine. To me, we look better than the team I watched for most of last season.

Peter Mills
206 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:17:47
I agree that Iwobi has improved greatly. But there is a danger we get carried away – he's just the best of a pretty average bunch.

We have lost one of our “easiest” away games of the season at Aston Villa, and just about drawn one of the easiest home games against a newly promoted team.

This has the feel of a very tough season. Assuming Gordon leaves, the part-exchange needs to be smart, and/or the money must be spent quickly and wisely.

Kieran Kinsella
207 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:18:31

I think Onana obviously isn’t match fit but he’s also young and stepping up into a faster tougher league. In a nutshell he’s like Fellaini who got a lot of stick for being impetuous, making rash tackles etc when he first arrived. But given time to adjust he became a very important player.

Brian Murray
208 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:21:43
Maybe switching Grand Old Team to Forever Everton at the end is the result of the Governance and Strategic Review?
Neil Copeland
209 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:22:16
Kieran, I hope you are well mate.

I agree, Onana looks a bit keen to impress at the moment. I think he shows a lot of raw talent but will take time to settle and, as you say, get up to speed.

Kieran Kinsella
210 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:29:18
Cheers, Neil,

I agree with you too on the improvements in players, even dare I say it Holgate, but yes, above all, Iwobi, who has gone from whipping boy to our best player.

Danny O’Neill
211 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:51:32
Sensible words, John @203.

Old, young, experienced or raw, throw a load of new players together and it's going to take a while for it to settle and for them to gel.

Good starts offsetting poor form later in the season or bad starts being offset by strong finishes. We've all seen both. It's what we do over the course of the season that matters, not 3 games.

I do think Onana may have been trying too hard today and dare I say, got pumped up by the crowd reaction as he was warming up. You could see it in him on the touchline and in the corner. He went on the pitch with adrenalin overload.

Nothing wrong with either, I just think we need to set our expectations as he settles in and he needs to focus on his football. He will be an asset, but he's young.

Positionally I thought he was caught behind the play and the ball too often, hence me suggesting a wise head in there might help him. And more importantly, the team.

I'm guessing Allan is gone, so is the Gueye thing still on?

Derek Thomas
212 Posted 20/08/2022 at 23:55:06
Bill Gall...

Q) " Why is it a foul and yellow card for a player when he pulls a player down from behind, but it is only a foul the second time he does it?"

A) Because:

(i) Most times it's not a yelllow, it's all about them, the referees, who have it arse-about-face – it's designed to help the Sky darlings, to put their opposition under pressure. But If every foul is a yellow, it would be 6-a-side after an hour.

(ii) The referees and the VAR, as directed in their rules of engagement by Sky and the Premier League, don't have a fuckin clue.

Anyway, moving on. Tarkowski had a bit of a mare, Gordon (or a half decent striker) could've had a hat-trick, Gray and Iwobi were up there for MotM, I thought Davies wasn't too bad. Onana was very lucky to stay on – see above on referees...

I still don't like the back line setup – be it 3 or 5.

Gray could do a job in the 'Lineker role'... except that he either blows hot or very cold total waste of space.

Deadline day and the new striker(s) or Gordon going question could get very interesting. The Club could; if all goes well, come out of this relatively well (for them)... or Lampard could be gone before the kids go back to school. We are the 'Interesting Times' curse writ large.

I am also reminded of the supposed former Prime Minister Macmillan's quote when asked...

"Prime Minister [ Mr Moshiri ], what can prevent you from carrying out your policies?"

"Events, Dear Boy, Events."

Sort out these 'Events' please.

Jay Harris
213 Posted 20/08/2022 at 00:02:58
I thought Iwobi was outstanding and Gray and Gordon had their best games for a while.

I don't like this 5 at the back when we don't have a goalscorer in the team as it keeps too many players back.

I don't know why he took Davies and Rondon off because I thought they were doing okay and McNeil was just a waste of a shirt. What happened to the player who played against Dynamo Kiev?

As for their goal ,I wish Pickford would palm those balls out for a corner if he doesn't feel confident of retaining the ball. We have conceded countless goals because he insists on punching or palming the ball instead of taking it in. Great pass for the equaliser though.

Let's hope Bill finds the money he put down his sofa this week and we get a couple of goalscorers in.

Brian Wilkinson
214 Posted 21/08/2022 at 00:55:24
Stanley Mills not even on the bench today, not that it mattered, we only used two of our subs quota.

However, I would certainly hope to see him given some game time on Tuesday, at Fleetwood, might be worth giving Tom Cannon and Warrington some minutes as well.

Need to give this competition some serious thought and try to build up some momentum, while at the same time, use a couple of youngsters to gel with some of the first teamers, see if we can get a winning formation.

Sorry I never got to see some of the regulars for a drink, bit hectic with the various bus changes, then being pre-occupied with the St George's Hall workers rally, then mad dash to the buses back into town, hopefully no rail strike for next home game so be nice to finally get a good pre match catch-up.

Simon Dalzell
215 Posted 21/08/2022 at 01:26:56
58 years a Blue. I've never felt so disillusioned, and that's saying something.

40,000 turn up consistently to watch utter garbage. How not run a club in a nutshell. Scrambling to get a point against a very moderate newly promoted team.

Boring most of the time. What have we done to deserve this. We really are a laughing stock. Lampard is clueless.

Fat chops Kenwright and Moshri – hold your heads in shame. What have you done to our beloved once respected club. £20 million for fucking McNeil.

Steve Brown
216 Posted 21/08/2022 at 03:50:50
So Kevin Molloy @ 140, so you LISTENED to the game and then came on here straight after the full-time to spout off. Try watching the game first.

Or alternatively, read the posts by Robert T, Mike G, Steve Daniells, Danny O, Dave A, Kieran or John Raftery and educate yourself.

Brian Murray
217 Posted 21/08/2022 at 06:16:31
On the pitch, I was hoping the coaches had some input with I thought top-notch Cole etc. The manager needs help as he's stuck on a system that's clearly not working and gives the initiative to whoever we are playing and lets them boss the game.

Sounds harsh but, if a game plan is not working, a savvy coach will ditch it after 30 minutes – not 3 games and counting. C'mon, Frank, save your job and at least be flexible.

He did it at half-time v Palace, albeit his job and reputation were probably on the line, so he's proved he can take the blinkers off with a bit of bravery. Time for Stanley Mills to start.

Danny O’Neill
218 Posted 21/08/2022 at 06:21:33
You flatter, Steve Brown!! I've just been reading back and must apologise for all the unintended typos. I was writing all of that on my phone on a coach flying down the M6!! On that note, I meant to type "didn't" play Grand Old Team at the end.

Steve @181, we're saying the same thing. Rondon done alright yesterday but he isn't the answer to our problems up front. Keep posting your views.

I watched the highlights back when I got in and was, for once, interested in the MotD analysis. Most of our threat was coming through the driving runs of Gray and Gordon. But there is no striker for them to deliver to, so it reinforces the glaring problem and Lampard said it in his interview. We must have something lined up, but it's what gives.

Gordon starting and playing the full 90 suggests he's staying. Unless it was needs must. I still didn't like his body language at the end. Hopefully just disappointment. I said to a few yesterday, I'd love him to stay, but if we're being offered £50M, that's going to be tough to turn down given where we are and what we need.

Watching MotD made me think, Brian; it will be an interesting day when Mills senior has to comment on Mills junior's performance!!! See you next time around.

In hindsight, I'll also change my view on Gordon's chance to snatch it at the end. He probably kills the opportunity to lob by taking a touch rather than doing it first time, but to give credit, the keeper came out and closed quickly.

With the goalkeeper so committed, maybe he could have slipped it to the left and rolled it in for what I feel would have been a deserved, albeit narrow win. But those of us who have taken to the field of play know that these things often happen in split seconds, not with the benefit of slow motion replays.

Brian Murray
219 Posted 21/08/2022 at 06:48:37

That chance at the end epitomised Gordon, it just doesn't come naturally to either get a clean shot away or his decision-making is usually wrong.

That last part may alter with maturity but not the finishing. That can't be coached. Either you have it or don't.

If we can get strikers in (plural not singular) without the Gordon fee, then fine. If not, his fee will make the difference between a £15M striker and a £30M one, then our future depends on it.

Andy Meighan
220 Posted 21/08/2022 at 07:17:32

Yes, you're right about Onana. Maybe I was a bit hasty in my assessment there as I'd had quite a few sherbets. The lad is going to take time to settle and, looking back on it now, was maybe guilty of trying too hard to impress. That said, I was worried he was going to walk.

Brian Murray
221 Posted 21/08/2022 at 07:53:30
I'm as guilty as anyone, getting carried away with Onana as if he's the second YaYa Toure. We rarely buy anyone who hits the ground running and easily forget that top players from abroad don't mean much in this league. He won't get much help from the likes of McNeil but he's an intelligent lad and he'll figure it out in time.
Sam Hoare
222 Posted 21/08/2022 at 07:58:28
Problems remain and, even if we bought a striker or two today, it would probably take a few weeks for them to be properly integrated into the team.

Biggest disappointments from me so far have been Lampard, who continues to be too reactive with in-game changes, and McNeil, who would not have been my signing of choice but who I at least expected more control and precision from. But there's time for both to improve.

It feels like we badly need a win at Leeds and/or Brentford or else it feels horribly plausible that we may only have 2-3 points after 7 games.

The defense looks a bit less shaky (though Mykolenko is not offering enough going forwards) and Iwobi is offering the sort of dynamism and control in the middle that we've needed for years. Him and Gueye would make a good combo though Davies showed that he can still offer something yesterday.

If Chelsea are mad enough to offer £50M or more for Gordon, we need to take it. The chance to buy someone who can score goals regularly now is more pressing than the need to keep someone who might score goals in 2-3 years.

Rondon, Gray and Gordon is sadly the most limited strike force in the Premier League (Calvert-Lewin improves things but his long-term availability is in doubt now) and there's no doubt in my mind we'll most likely be in a relegation battle.

Crucial that we make good moves in the next week or so.

Ian Jones
223 Posted 21/08/2022 at 08:12:32
Agree with much of the above comments, especially those suggesting patience for the new players and patience for Frank Lampard and his management team.

However, I could see Frank Lampard resign due to frustration. For example, if Anthony Gordon gets sold... he may just think what's the point etc.

Re Gordon... surely this move needs to have the approval of Gordon as well. He doesn't have to leave if he doesn't want to...

Also, I am not a fan of 5 subs but am interested to know if anyone thinks using the full quota of 5 subs yesterday could have had a positive impact on our performance.

Michael Lynch
224 Posted 21/08/2022 at 08:24:26
I thought we made a bright start yesterday, but faded badly. The substitutions made us look even worse.

Early days but Onana worries me. He seems more interested in trying to gee up the crowd than doing his job. Lampard needs to have an early chat with him – he could have been sent off within 10 minutes of coming on the pitch.

I thought Tarkowski looked uncomfortable all game, making a number of errors. Iwobi our best player again.

Paul Birmingham
225 Posted 21/08/2022 at 08:25:44
I'll give McNeil, a few more games, but yesterday whilst never a striker, in a million years, he visibly bottled it, in my view, for a few minutes.

That limp corner at the Street End, Bullens Road side, the splitting through ball that didn't reach Gordon, the right idea but poor execution.

Hopefully he will be able to get to 10% of Kevin Sheedy, he may be able contribute to the team. But being the player he is, you have to be very good with the ball and make the game progress positively for Everton.

Like with Onana, he's not up to the pace of the Premier League yet, and will learn about going in recklessly, as much for his own fitness as for the opponent.

But the lad has passion and hopefully can be gleaned into a very good Everton player.

Kevin Molloy
226 Posted 21/08/2022 at 08:32:51
Steve, that's right, I listened on the radio.

It doesn't really matter how I followed the game. The Beeb confirmed how I thought it would go: A bright start, then only one team going to win it in the last quarter before our late goal.

Well, you clearly think it's vital to back Frank at this point. Funny, cos I think you were calling for the previous manager to go within weeks of his arrival last year, so why you think you are in a position to lecture other people on how to support the club, I'm not sure.

Joe McMahon
227 Posted 21/08/2022 at 08:59:47
Those questioning new arrivals, it can take a few games, please be patient. I remember Arsenal fans getting impatient with Dennis Bergkamp, but he defo settled in.

A reminder is Tom Davies has done what exactly in over 5 years, a goal v Man City? Lookman scored in that game too, but wasn't good enough for Everton.

Laurie Hartley
228 Posted 21/08/2022 at 09:13:13
Just watched the full replay. A draw was probably a fair result in my opinion.

Good to see Rondon getting a fair crack from some posters. We got the ball to him 13 times with his back to goal. He got it to one our players 9 times, had 2 shots, gave it away twice. He is no world beater agreed, but he now's how to provide an out.

All credit to Gray – took his goal beautifully and knows that there are 90+ minutes to be played every game. Iwobi put a terrific shift in once again.

I am going to take a few positives from this game. The defence is looking much better. I like Coady – he is a calm head and reads the game well. Tarkowski had a poor game but I think he is made of the right stuff (wish he was left-footed) and Holgate is looking much better on the right of a three.

I think we have solved our full-back problems - Mykolenko and Patterson are very young and will get better and we have Coleman and Vinagre as cover for each of them.

Onana is raw and his attempted rugby tackle was a bit embarrassing but I think he will settle into the pace and intensity of the premier league. If he does, he appears to have the self-belief, drive and talent to become a very good player.

We are still lacking a goal scorer and a bit of guile in midfield. I still think Dele Alli and Allan could make a difference.

Dave - I am doing ok thanks. I've got, my family, food, clothing, a roof over my head, and a few dollars in the pension fund and the heating is on (still winter here). One of the 10% 😉. Hope you are doing OK too.

Robert Tressell
229 Posted 21/08/2022 at 09:29:11
Tarkowski is struggling because he's playing in an unfamiliar left centre-back position. He's a good player in a back 4. But this will eat away at his confidence if not addressed.

We just don't have the right centre-backs to play a back 3. It robs us of an extra body in an already weak midfield.

None of this is anything new. It's the same as the glaring issues which Frank was very slow to react to last season.

A striker will help, big time. But it won't solve these structural issues.

There's an easy fix but the signing of Coady seems to have committed him to back 3 - and it could even be the thing that gets him sacked. Early days, I know, so let's hope it doesn't come anywhere close to that.

Danny Baily
230 Posted 21/08/2022 at 09:45:49
Robert @229, that's the conundrum. The way I see it, we need to pair one of Mina, Keane, Tarks and Coady with the pace of either Godfrey or Holgate.

We can't drop Coady because we've seemingly promised him games. So a back four would pair Holgate and Coady at the moment, with three high earners on the bench. So we're pretty much committed to a back five.

Brian Harrison
231 Posted 21/08/2022 at 09:46:58
I thought we started brightly with Anthony Gordon being involved in most of the good things we were doing. I am not Tom Davies's biggest fan and he did miss a chance from a freekick and overhit a pass to Gray inside the box which probably should have led to a goal, but I thought in general he played well.

Rondon we know isn't very mobile but, when they did hit him with the ball, he held it up or moved it on well, but no use playing balls over the top for him – he just doesn't have the pace to get on the end of them.

Although Rondon was tiring in the 2nd half, the changes seemed to unbalance us; putting McNeil in place of Rondon didn't work and Onana is a young boy in a new country in a new league, suggest any opinions on him should wait till the end of this season.

We now have 10 days to get a couple of strikers in, now these may not be the strikers Lampard or us fans would have wanted but we need strikers so beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes.

After watching yesterday I don't think we can afford to let Gordon go as I said most of the good things we did in the game Gordon was involved. The argument is £45 million is a lot of money and we can buy a striker, but that means we lose all of what Gordon brings to the side and we end up with a striker with McNeil playing in Gordon's place.

I thought Tarkowski looked very shaky yesterday, especially against anyone with a bit of pace. The problem with this system is he is more on the flank than he was at Burnley and therefore more exposed. I thought Coady and Holgate had decent games, but I just don't like this system.

Iwobi was probably our best player but wouldn't him playing in a midfield 3 give him more options to play further forward and join the attack? Apart from when we were chasing the game we always seem to struggle getting numbers into the box with this system.

Time to be brave, Frank, go to a 4-3-3 bring back Allan as the defensive midfield and allow Iwobi and Onana to go forward.

Clive Rogers
232 Posted 21/08/2022 at 10:13:58
Iwobi is keeping possession better, keeping it simple but he doesn’t drive us forward or create anything.
Ian Bennett
233 Posted 21/08/2022 at 10:15:18
Agreed, I think Tarkowski struggled at left centre-back. He's been robbed in possession in pre-season friendlies and in Premier League games. We are setting him up to fail.

For me, you play Mykolenko, Coady and Tarkowski as a three. Mykolenko doesn't get forward, is quick enough and is naturally left-sided.

Rondon is rubbish, but he was a marked improvement on having nothing else. That highlights we will function better with a striker.

I don't like the team set up with 5 at the back, I have to say. But we don't have many components for 4 at the back.

Ian Bennett
234 Posted 21/08/2022 at 10:31:07
5 at the back is played, because you're saying that your defenders aren't good enough to play with 4.

You can't say playing 5 improves our ability to counter-attack. It's purely saying they can't play in a 4.

Also, you've not got a defensive midfielder good enough to break up the play either. Still trying to get a 32-year-old Gana in, is as embarrassing as having no strikers.

3 games in, and it looks like we are Bottom 5 for the season.

Anthony Dove
235 Posted 21/08/2022 at 11:10:27
Danny @211.

I assume you are talking about Forest.

Never mind... only 39 points to go.

Christopher Timmins
236 Posted 21/08/2022 at 11:31:41
Anyone think that Pickford should have pushed the ball more towards the wing in the lead up to their goal?

A striker will make a major difference and keep us out of the Bottom 6. The boy from Chelsea is the one and to get!

Neil Thomas
237 Posted 21/08/2022 at 11:40:33
Reading some threads on here, I think some of you could do with getting a grip of reality.

Criticising others for either having to watch the highlights or listening to the game on the radio, is a little out of order. Doesn't mean that you don't love or support the team.

It may be the case, that in the current climate not everyone can afford to fork out a fortune to go and watch games.

Brent Stephens
238 Posted 21/08/2022 at 11:44:45
Christopher #237,

"Anyone think that Pickford should have pushed the ball more towards the wing in the lead-up to their goal?"

Christopher, I assume that, as he's left-footed, then he's also left-handed, though that's not always the case. If so, and totally guessing at this, but I just wonder if saving with his weaker hand makes him more prone to push the ball more to the wing than to the goal line???

That might be counter-intuitive but maybe it's because he has less control over what his non-dominant hand does???

Brent Stephens
239 Posted 21/08/2022 at 11:47:24
Neil, I don't think the criticism is about listening rather than watching. It's the fact that if you can only listen and not watch, then how can you comment on what actually happened?
Rob Hooton
240 Posted 21/08/2022 at 12:03:09
I thought there were some improvements but we are still lacking any quality in the final third which is why we are and will be in a relegation fight.

Gordon and Gray both get into decent positions but their decision-making and final ball are severely lacking – same with set pieces, most of the deliveries were pretty pathetic. If Gray hadn't scored, I would have given him a 5 for wastefulness but he did score so much forgiven!

Iwobi our best player again, I thought Davies also had a very good game in 75% of the pitch and ‘not so good' in the final attacking quarter.

I can't stand 5 at the back and would rather have a 5-man midfield as this is where we lose most of our games. It feels like it is going to be a very long season and finishing anywhere outside the Bottom 3 will be an achievement. Still looking forward to the games though, lol, at least we tried to play a bit of decent footy here and there.

Christy Ring
241 Posted 21/08/2022 at 12:18:53
Neil #238,

I think you're being a bit unfair. Kevin Molloy made a few comments, said we created nothing, no forwards against Forest, Rondon was playing, wants Lampard gone.

Steve Brown questioned his comments because he didn't even see the game. He didn't say Kevin had to go to the game but, as he said, to spout off without seeing the game – a bit much!!

Tony Hill
242 Posted 21/08/2022 at 12:33:11
Clive @232, in fact yesterday Iwobi created the chance, after some clever footwork, from which Gordon brought a good save. He created several significant chances against Chelsea.

What he does at the moment is to move the ball with some speed and, generally, with accuracy, so that even if he's not directly creating chances, then he's switching play and managing tempo.

As it happens, I thought he had one of his less effective games yesterday, certainly in the second half.

I'd like to see him further forward from where he should, in any event, be more creative. That won't happen, sadly, while we are so chaotic in midfield and bereft in attack.

As a longer-term supporter of Iwobi who eventually lost faith in him, I'm delighted with his renewed form but I share some of your reservations, and those expressed by Peter Mills elsewhere on here, to the effect that we shouldn't go overboard in our praise.

Danny O’Neill
243 Posted 21/08/2022 at 12:43:19
Everton actually, Anthony @236!!

Okay, not on the scale of Forest, but we do have 2 new centre-backs, effectively a new right-(wing)back in Patterson, Mykolenko still settling (but nicely) as well as McNeil, now Onana and striker(s) plus another midfielder to follow.

Once they gel, we'll be talking 59 points!!

We all follow Everton and football in the way we can. From near, from afar and however we can get access. As someone who spent many gap years not being able to go regularly, I can appreciate that.

I have to admit, I had to give up listening on the radio many, many years ago, so respect. My blood pressure used to go through the roof and I didn't feel like I had any control. I know that's a ridiculous statement because it's not like I do have when I'm watching, but psychologically it feels like I do! I hope some understand that sentiment

I've said before, but I actually enjoyed the match yesterday. It wasn't perfect, but a decent game. The gaps we have are known, documented and can be fixed.

Over to you, Mr Moshiri and the Doard to support the manager's & DoF's plans and wants.

Ian Bennett
244 Posted 21/08/2022 at 12:49:05
59 points Danny - I'd cut back on whatever you or the board are smoking.

Look at our next 8 games. We are bang in trouble.

Dave Abrahams
245 Posted 21/08/2022 at 13:04:02
Laurie (228), a fair summing up of yesterday's game, although I thought we deserved to win.

Yes, I'm doing okay, like yourself, counting my blessings and looking on the bright things in life always helps!!

Frank Crewe
246 Posted 21/08/2022 at 13:26:00
I just wish Lampard would use a three-man midfield as it would give us better control of the game. As it is, we are constantly trying to get down the wings while getting overrun in the middle.

Our need for a striker becomes more glaring with every game we play. Better get one soon.

Clive Rogers
247 Posted 21/08/2022 at 13:28:02
Ian, 245, I'm with you.

Looking at the next 10 games, I can only see a maximum of five points with the current squad. If we sign a decent striker that could change, but judging by the signings we have made that probably won't happen.

The recent signings haven't improved us at all and we have not replaced Richarlison. This current squad will be relegated.

Dave Cashen
248 Posted 21/08/2022 at 13:28:58
Frustrating afternoon.

The whole team is riddled with mistakes, doubts and poor decision-making. There were some positives though. Holgate and Iwobi continue their remarkable improvement under Frank.

It never ceases to amaze me how preoccupied many posters are with Tom Davies. Once again, he is the most talked about player. He didn't rise, or fall, above the decidedly average, but he didn't really have to, to be head and shoulders above McNeil or Onana.

Frank was right for not starting Onana. Last week, he was caught in possession as soon as came on. That lead directly to a Villa goal. This week, he did exactly the same thing and had to resort to a rugby challenge to avoid giving up another chance.

The Premier League is different to other leagues. You don't get away with nearly as much because you don't get as much time to operate. Arsene Wenger used to piss off his new foreign signings by making them sit and watch a few English league games before throwing them in.

I think it will take a few weeks for Onana to acclimatise.

Anthony Dove
249 Posted 21/08/2022 at 13:45:32
Iwobi is obviously much improved, admittedly from a very low starting point. However, he was more like his old self in the second half and I don't see him as a long-term solution in the creative midfield role.
Colin Malone
250 Posted 21/08/2022 at 13:52:28
We have a couple of leaders in our back line in Coady and Tarkowski who have improved our defence.
The one and only leader we have in midfield is Allan. He took Davies off and put Onana on, in which we saw less of Iwobi.

Two of them in my opinion were playing identical roles in midfield. Our best holding midfielder and leader is Allan but Frank does not like him. Our worst player, he kept on for 90 minutes.

I'm puzzled.

Soren Moyer
251 Posted 21/08/2022 at 13:55:39
No strikers? No problem. We will stick one of the midfielders up there instead.

Again! It should come off eventually! Trust me.

In your face, Einstein!!!!!

Ray Roche
252 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:02:56
I see that Kudus, the guy we are supposed to be interested in, is on the bench for Ajax, along with Klaasen.
Eddie Dunn
253 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:06:52
Lampard is sleepwalking into another relegation battle. Last season he blamed all that had gone before, and constantly repeated how many points there were still to play for.

I imagine that he sanctioned the loans of Simms, Dobbin and Broadhead (if not, then something is seriously awry). He could very well have been assured that his required second striker was imminently available. However, he continues with his back five/three with his wingbacks providing midfield reinforcement.

It clearly works only on occasion, and often instead leaves us overrun in the middle of the park, or our full-backs caught out of position.

Tarkowski has been exposed in the left-back position several times when Mykolenko has been awol. Why doesn't he trust a back four? Coady, Tarkovsky, Patterson and Mykolenko. Then we could have Allan in the middle and that extra body closing up the space.

But no, Frank thinks his wingers will cut inside and make the space for his raiding wingbacks. It might work with a decent number 9, but we don't have one.

I honestly think we would be better sitting deep and counter-attacking. Ancelotti did it as he realised how limited we are. Since then, we have lost Richarlison, Sigurdsson and James. We are playing wide-open football like Bournemouth under Eddie Howe. We all know how that turned out.

It's stubborness worthy of Benitez and I fear that this manager is going to be found out as a bit naive. If he hadn't played many many games for Chelsea and England, I wonder just how kind the media and our fans would be?

Danny O’Neill
254 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:20:21
Not a shabby assessment, that, Eddie. I think Tarkowski may adapt to a 3 if he's played on the right. So move Mykolenko into the left side of the 3?

And go 3-5-2.

I do tend to agree, stubbornness and naivety of playing what he wants to before he's got the players to do it may undo him.

But the last thing I want is managerial change, so I hope he can see it. We've still got that gap in the middle and we lack strikers.

This guy has won everything. I'm just a follower, like many. But we can all see it.

Terry Ankers
255 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:21:21
I go to the game and always have done for over 50 years, so I have watched some crap. Yesterday, I saw a team in transition. I agree we desperately need a striker but not just a striker by name – give Frank a chance.

For me, he has toughened up the back and also the midfield, he is now in the process of changing the way we have been playing. I for one saw a difference yesterday and liked what I saw for most part of the game.

Let the players get used to the way we play and let the new players settle in. I am sure we will all see better performances.

I was taught a lesson by Alex Iwobi. I slated him every week but now he would be the first name on my team sheet. COYB

Jeff Armstrong
256 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:21:35
It's not the 5 at the back system that's the problem, it's the rigidity of sticking to it, game-in & game-out, that is the problem. Yesterday, it was obvious Forest were going to sit back after about 5 minutes.

It's then Frank should have the nous to change the system, go flat back 4, move maybe Coady into the defensive midfield position, push Davies and Iwobi further forward, bring a sub on after 30 minutes, try different things to win the game!

Sean Kelly
257 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:29:00
If we get to deadline day and no new strikers we will be relegated. When dcl came back last season he was crack and in all prrobability it will be new year before he gets up to speed if he stays fit. I can see Fra
no getting more and more frustrated after each game. Billy bullshit will tell us they tried to get a striker but it got held up. This won’t wash anymore. They knew from last season Richi was going and yet they seem to be setting their plans out on the back of a fag box. Incredibly inept club.
Ian Edwards
258 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:41:30
Lampard has lost his best player in Richarlison and his tactics have gone totally negative. Leeds lost their best player in Raphina and are going at Chelsea playing a pressing attacking game.

Unless Lampard grows a pair quickly, he'll be gone by November.

Ian Riley
259 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:50:48
Eddie (#254) – excellent post.

Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard were such top players. Expectation to match this as managers comes with added pressure.

As I have said, negative results get you the sack, whoever you are. Those saying "We have had so many managers, we need stability" – you're wrong. Premier League status is bigger than being loyal when millions of pounds is at risk. Also, improving performances is crucial for more points.

After many months, I still don't see what Frank is trying to do formation-wise? If I don't see it, how are the players responding? Formation and players in unfamiliar positions can lead to mistakes.

This squad has enough quality to keep clean sheets. Frank must find a way. He must bang on the Director of Football's door, demanding a striker is signed, at least one.

If a striker is not signed, then Frank must find a way to get points or resign. If we get to 59 points under Frank, I will be thrilled. Currently and history tells us different but this is football and it may surprise us.

Will Mabon
260 Posted 21/08/2022 at 14:51:43
Jeff - have to agree. Flexibility arguably more necessary when your attacking options are limited. Periods of the game gave perfect opportunities for it. I think there's more than a little fear at play.

Brent @ 238: "Fun fact" – more left-footed players are right-handed than left-handed (I'm one). Most left-handed players are right-footed. Left-left is apparently the rarest.

Brent Stephens
261 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:07:18

Even more than I suspected – re the right-handedness but left-footedness in the same person. Got to hand it to you for that gem!

Will Mabon
262 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:15:09
Brent, which hand did you use? :-)
Ajay Gopal
263 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:22:07
I think our problem is not the back 3 per se, but the way Frank is playing it at the moment.

The wingbacks are not coming into attacking play as often as we would like. We have seen what Mykolenko and Patterson are capable of. But perhaps Frank wants us to be solid at the back before he allows the wingbacks more freedom, plus the fact that we don't have a beanpole striker who can get on the end of those crosses.

And for people calling for Mykolenko to be played on the left side of a back 3 – why? I think Holgate is playing his best football in this system, Coady looks like he is an organiser and Tarkowski is an excellent blocker and header of the football.

I expect that once Holgate starts getting his confidence, he will use his pace to push up much further. If Gana comes in, then I can see Iwobi and Davies playing more forward and supporting the striker (Calvert-Lewin or the new fella) along with one of Gordon or Gray.

I like how this team has progressed since last season. It feels like Lampard and his staff have a definite strategy (build from the back, don't get overrun in midfield and have the runners – Gordon and Gray feed off the centre forward).

Obviously, Calvert-Lewin's injury and the struggles to sign a decent backup to him have been a setback. In the meantime, I hope Lampard is conducting extra shooting sessions for the likes of Gordon, Gray, McNeil, Iwobi, and Davies to sharpen their skills. Plus, we need a bit of luck for things to go our way.

Brent Stephens
264 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:24:15
The dominant one, Will.
Will Mabon
265 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:27:38
Keeping tactics close to the chest - shrewd.
Soren Moyer
266 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:27:51
We are so far behind even Brighton.

(Yes, Brighton!)

That it is untrue!!!!

Brian Hennessy
267 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:32:29
I think we are two signings and a formation change away from having a decent team that can finish mid-table.

Firstly, Frank needs to revert to a back 4.

Secondly, we need to get the Idrissa Gueye deal done as Onana needs to have a defensive midfielder behind him and a back 4 needs more protection than a back 5. If we can't sign Gueye, Davies or Allan have to play behind Onana.

Thirdly, as we all know, we need to sign a striker. Until we do, Rondon has to start until Calvert-Lewin is fit.

It's not rocket science, Frank.

Brent Stephens
268 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:37:14
This is all early days. No need to be almost suicial already. Let the transfer window end, and the dust settle.

How often do we see, in the first few weeks of a season, teams in the bottom three who end up well up the table; and teams who are quick out of the blocks who end up near the bottom?

Mike Gwyer
269 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:37:51
Ajay #264,

An excellent summary of what Everton are about. Like most, I want Frank to grab the reins and lead the way but we are so desperately short of a striker, I mean we created enough chances yesterday to win 3 games.

Eddie Dunn
270 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:42:41
Terry @256.

Your post is one of those that attempts to put down anyone with a critical opinion as Kopites.

So you have been going regularly to Goodison for 50 years... It doesn't mean your opinion is any more accurate than anyone else's. Please refrain from calling other Evertonians Liverpool supporters.

As for your point... perhaps there are some hopeful signs from some of our crisp passing and interplay. We are creating chances. We still need to start scoring goals and controlling games.

Personally, I'm not willing to give Frank forever to sort out his blurred tactics. He might as well be starring in Groundhog Day.

Adrian Evans
271 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:45:04
We are in real real trouble when you look at Fulham, Leeds, Brentford, Bournmouth, Southampton, Palace,

If we are in a battle of the worst half of the 20.

We can only get a draw out of Notts Forrest.

We are deep in it Mr Thelwell, Mr Lampard.

You better get ya fingers out and recognise the rubbish we have in the squad.
As good a lad Tom Davies is, he aint good enough.

Others we have Mina, Holgate, Allan, Gabamin, Rondon, Keane.
Proved injury prone, in consistant, just aint going to keep us in the top flight.

Be to late to clear them out, get quality in soon.

Absolute nightmare, no urgency, looking at bargain basement strikers.

Tosun £28million, Moise Keane, who the **** has been getting paid sanctioning, Ramirez?

For God's sake, wake up Frank or youll get sacked, your Premier League managerial prospects are in tatters.

Get tough up stairs.Tell them youll walk if you don't get backed.
Rather that than you get sacked.

A draw, against what we played.

Villa, they're bad, Chelsea rubbish, Leeds sorted them out. Forrest, rubbish.

Come on Frank, take control for us.

272 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:46:20
Eddie # 254.
Great Post.
Christy Ring
273 Posted 21/08/2022 at 15:56:14
Tarkowski has shifted to the left side to suit Coady, and he's a lot more vulnerable, and less effective.

I'd still like to try them in a straight back four. If it doesn't work, play Holgate with either, as he's looked a lot sharper this season, and Patterson and Mykolenko are fast enough and can still get forward as fullbacks.

Iwobi can be a lot more effective going forward with Allan or in a Gueye hopefully holding role, and a lot less pressure on Onana in a 3-man midfield, and will give Gordon, Gray and hopefully a new No 9 a stronger attacking threat.

Looking at the Leeds game, taking nothing away from them, but Chelsea without Kante... a lot more vulnerable.

Brian Wilkinson
274 Posted 21/08/2022 at 16:04:07
Three things about Everton and tweaks easily fixed.

Tweak One (already fixed): keep Iwobi away from the wing and play him in his preferred position of more central.

Tweak Two: play Tarkowski either central or out on the right of defence, his stronger position.

Tweak Three: when fit, keep Godfrey away from the right side of defence, he is much better either playing central or towards the left side of defence.

If you look at Godfrey overall, his poorer games always seem to come when he is playing on the right side of defence.

Next game: switch Tarkowski back to his stronger position on the right.

Colin Malone
275 Posted 21/08/2022 at 16:40:35
Eddie # 254.
Great Post.
Stephen Brown
276 Posted 21/08/2022 at 16:46:16
I've just watched MotD (I know it's highlights and not a full reflection) and I've watched the games today so far and it's clear to me, I hate to say, we're the worst team in the Premier League! At least going forward we are. We need 4 attacking players to come in and hit the ground running.

We also need Gana back so we can play a 4-2-3-1 formation.

I'm behind Lampard but agree that any stubbornness now will be his undoing!

Raymond Fox
277 Posted 21/08/2022 at 16:57:43
Whether Coady and Tarkowski will get on remains to be seen.

They don't have to, of course, but I got the impression that Tarkowski was going to be the organiser at the back, but now that Coady has arrived, there could be two bosses, which can work… but very often does not.

Tony Hill
278 Posted 21/08/2022 at 16:58:40
Stephen @276,

You are right... except that we are a touch better than Bournemouth over the course of the season, I suspect.

Sean Kelly
279 Posted 21/08/2022 at 17:08:13
Lots of people talking about that a new striker or two are needed until we get dcl back. If we get a striker in dcl will have to fight for his place just like any other club would expect him to do. No free rides here lad. Get back fit and show what you are made of.
Nick Bower
280 Posted 21/08/2022 at 18:44:27
Broja was not on the bench against Leeds. Is there anything we should read into that ?
Clive Rogers
281 Posted 21/08/2022 at 19:10:41
I’ve been disappointed with Coady and Tarkowski so far. Early days I know but Tarkowski looks slow. Together they don’t seem much of an improvement. We’ll get a better idea after the next two away games. I’m expecting two defeats unless we bring someone in.
Robert Tressell
282 Posted 21/08/2022 at 19:14:09
I guess our first choice First XI should be:

Tarkowski (RCB)
Godfrey (LCB)

That's not too bad at all. I guess Onana's immaturity is why Gueye is still wanted. He can help Onana settle in.

On the bench, giving us options should be Broja, Iwobi and Gray.

Again, not too bad.

Obviously the injuries to Godfrey and DCL have derailed this.

We might be able to make this work while Godfrey is out by playing Mykolenko at LCB and Vinagre as LWB.

However, the easiest fix for the players must surely be a 433 which brings in Gueye (or Allan if Gueye doesn't sign) at the expense of a CB. That would allow us to keep the newly ace Iwobi as part of a central trio.

Or maybe the transfer window has some more surprises for us.

Pat Kelly
283 Posted 21/08/2022 at 19:42:47
Nick #280 I read somewhere Broja was injured in preseason and is injured again
Derek Taylor
284 Posted 21/08/2022 at 20:04:23
The 'Everton Corner' in my Sunday Lunchtime Club - mostly old timers - would give Lampard until Christmas, signings or not. 25 points in the bag at least.

Is that a reasonable ask given we have the World Cup break to accommodate?

Peter Neilson
285 Posted 21/08/2022 at 20:07:30
Averaging one point per game since Frank took over – that's a big step up. Hopefully, but goal scorers needed to have any chance of hitting it.
Brendan McLaughlin
286 Posted 21/08/2022 at 20:23:07
Derek #284

Always wise to give the old timers as much "Water Closet" break as they need!

Bernie Quinn
287 Posted 21/08/2022 at 22:15:45
Have to say I am fed up with the negative posters spouting off against Everton and our Manager.

Nottingham Forest are not a relegation team. They easily beat West Ham last week. We are not the worst team in the league – West Ham lost their 3rd game today and are bottom, whilst Man Utd are in one hell of a mess.

With Frank, one look at the team shows the improvements he has made. We hear ad nauseum that we need a striker; I think Frank is well aware of that but he doesn't control the club's money – he can't make players want to join us – and he can't make other clubs release their players.

Frank is doing his best but, when you have numpties like Kenwright holding the purse strings and making decisions, Frank needs the fans' support, like he was given last season.

Neil Copeland
288 Posted 21/08/2022 at 22:25:31
Bernie, well said. For the most part, I thought we looked better than Forest and Villa and capable of giving Chelsea a game.

If we can finally complete the Gueye transfer and add 2 strikers, then I think we will start moving up the table. Although I do have some concerns over the number of new faces who will need to settle in and how long that is likely to take.

Jerome Shields
289 Posted 22/08/2022 at 04:15:30
When all is said and done, a draw was a typical Everton result. The performance had all the typical elements that would have caused Everton to have lost against a better team.

Tarkowski poduced a brutal first-half performance.

Poor finishing, long an Everton problem.

Pushed deep and compacted after Franks changes in the second half.

Pickford error.

Get out of jail goal by Gray.

Yes, Everton are playing better football. but competitively they have not moved on.

Christy Ring
290 Posted 22/08/2022 at 09:13:15
Just watched the highlights of Saturday's game again. Credit to Pickford for his brilliant pass to Gray, and Gray's first touch simply outstanding.

Gordon's first touch was poor, for the chance to win the game, and Henderson was able to close him down.

Paul Cherrington
291 Posted 22/08/2022 at 09:23:34
I could comment on the game but there is only one thing to say at the moment to those at the club with the power to do something about it...

For the love of god, get your finger out and buy a flaming striker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are just throwing points away at the minute while this is not being sorted out! We are meant to be a professional club in the Premier League yet have no fit, decent strikers in the squad.

Lee Robinson
292 Posted 22/08/2022 at 09:54:42
I am a fan of Lampard, but there are a few things I don't understand.

Are we a pressing side or not? Watching Fulham, Leeds, Brentford and Newcastle this weekend, they seem well drilled, coached, with a plan. We sometimes press, but it doesn't seem to be everyone, just maybe one, or most times we sit off and let them walk it to the half-way line. We pressed a few times last year, Brentford, Leeds Utd, Man Utd ... it seemed to work.

I would have thought if we are not playing with a striker; Gordon, Gray, McNeil and Iwobi would have been perfect to press, given their speed, escpecially as they don't bring much threat in the box. I'm not fussed either way, but it's just not clear to me what type of style we are meant to be playing.

Another gripe is that we never just put the ball in the box, the checking back everytime is very frustrating. It looks like a particularly tough Premier League this season, it's going to take a lot to get 3 points and many sides look like they have a style and a plan laid out.

Iwobi again with another MotM performance for me. It needs to be highlighted as well that the lad never seems to moan and is available every week, whatever position. Glad he seems to have the Number 8 position nailed.

Holgate, Davies, Gray, Coady also had very good games. Defensively we look very solid, we have hardly given up many chances in the first 3 games.

But we are so wasteful in the final third, and when is Gordon going to learn how to shoot? He always shoots leaning back or off-balance, never getting any power in some good positions.

Finally though, I don't think we are too far away from a half-decent side, some creativity up front and a Number 9 should see us be okay and a good young side to build on next season.

Kevin Molloy
293 Posted 22/08/2022 at 10:40:45
I think Frank's all over the place. I don't think he's properly thought through the implications of going to a back five.

He's looked at the fullbacks and centre-backs and thought "they just aren't good enough" and then thought "I know, I'll move to a five, problem solved". But our whole squad is based around 4-5-1, and not around 5-3-2.

I wonder, has he thought much at all about what sort of midfielders would play in the three? At Wolves, they had outstanding playmakers in Neves and Moutinho; we don't have one player like that, let alone two.

And is he really going to lash out £30M plus on a striker, and then pop him on the bench when Calvert-Lewin gets back fit next month?

And if he's not, does that mean it's two up top? That again would change the whole dynamic of the team.

Brian Wilkinson
294 Posted 22/08/2022 at 13:00:50
We could go two up front Kevin, at the same time we just do not know once Calvert-Lewin is back into the team, if he will avoid the injury coming back again.

Would be great when we get Calvert-Lewin back, we need a huge slice of luck that he gets through the remainder of the season, but with no guarentee of that, we need to bring a striker in.

In 85 we had Andy Gray as back up, then Heath got an horrible injury, back then we were able to link Sharp and Gray together, today we have to plan for the full season, with that in mind, then a striker is a must.

If you look back over the last few seasons, sometimes we have had 2 goalkeepers on the bench, that’s three keepers in total.

Yet we only have one striker in the squad, goalkeepers save you goals, strikers win you games with goals, but to have only one striker available for the first team match day squad needs addressing, we cannot keep going into winnable games, with only one striker to be able to call upon.

Danny O’Neill
295 Posted 22/08/2022 at 13:09:54
I'd agree Brian. 2 up front. But given how he's building around playing a 3, I'd prefer 3-5-2.

Alongside Calvet Lewin, a drifting, supporting striker. Ironically, a job Richarlison could have done. Could Gray do it? Can Gordon? He's no point man but could support the striker.

But then we're still missing something from the midfield 3 if we went down the 3-5-2 route.

Sadly lots of work to do with this squad after the wasteful years we've just experienced. It won't happen overnight but changing the manager again in the shor term won't fix it.

Brian Murray
296 Posted 22/08/2022 at 13:15:29
Christ post 290 As soon as that last chance came to gordon you just knew he didn’t have the belief or know how to just go round the goalie. It’s just not in him and I bet in his mid late 20 s people will be saying the same. Very busy player with good energy. Never get near this ten goal man we need from somewhere. Two at least.
Lee Robinson
297 Posted 22/08/2022 at 14:53:06
I agree, Brian. He obviously has all the ability to become a top player. But for me, it's the instinct or natural ability to do the key things in the final third which will ultimately let him down, eg, running into traffic, holding on to the ball, when to release or whip one in.
Jerome Shields
298 Posted 22/08/2022 at 18:33:49

Iowbi has a wandering role. Gray, Gordan and McNeill are more interested in space for them to receive a pass. They stay off defenders as a result. This space is then curtailed by unchallenged defender


I don't think that Everton sees it as a back 5. Prior to the season start he is on record as saying he is not interested in formation, whether it be a back this or that. I think the intention is three centre back, with two wing backs pushing forward. But when To Everton have no Centre Forward and a inconsistent press the Wing back are pushed back and the Centre Back revert to Evertons default position of being deeper than they should be, Hence the bac 5.

Imo Everton do not have the players to operate Frank's system. They are use to having a Centre Forward. But even with that finishing is poor and has been for years, par the odd get out of jail goal.

Kevin Molloy
299 Posted 22/08/2022 at 21:26:54
yes, I agree we do need a striker. I would just doubt if we should be spending big on one who may spend large parts of the season on the bench, which would seem to be the case if we get Broja (he doesn't seem like he can go on the wing if needed0. If we were wanting a substitute for dcl, I would have thought the appropriate fee would be around 10-15m, and then get a player who can pass it which we desperately need.
Alec Gaston
300 Posted 22/08/2022 at 22:15:32
Anyone else getting fed up with all the speculation from so called people in the know - why so our transfer business touted all over the internet - surely it can’t help the negotiating position - if Gordon is going for £50m other clubs will hold us to ransom over incoming transfers - how do these people know get the information - I guess some leaks are deliberate from the club but it’s getting stupid now - bring back Ceefax
Bernie Quinn
301 Posted 22/08/2022 at 22:29:14
Alex@300 - Read my post @ 287
Alec Gaston
302 Posted 22/08/2022 at 22:32:16
I agree Bernie, where are these people getting their info and why are they sharing it with the world? Or are they just guessing
Christy Ring
303 Posted 22/08/2022 at 22:33:38
Kevin#299 Totally disagree, so you want us to spend little money on a mediocre striker, that's what we did with Rondon. DCL's injury record is a cause for concern, we need a quality striker, which means Dom is not guaranteed a starting spot. Two good strikers is a must.
Brian Wilkinson
304 Posted 22/08/2022 at 23:17:57
Spot on Christy, Calvert-Lewin might come back in and a few games down the line pick up an injury again.

One striker a bare minimum possibly two in.

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