Aston Villa 4 - 0 Everton

Round and round and round we go. A change in manager, a couple of new players. Hope followed by disappointment then humiliation and despair. This is the lot for Evertonians and has been throughout almost all of the disastrous reign of Farhad Moshiri and, in truth, further back to the second season under Roberto Martinez.

And still the fans show up; still they sell out away games up and down the country, only to be served up dross like they witnessed today at Villa Park against an opposition club, it shouldn’t be forgotten, were in a similar situation as Everton a year ago, at least in terms of having a young manager who would soon prove beyond doubt that he was a demonstrable failure.

Aston Villa sacked Steven Gerrard in October last year and hired a serial winner in Unai Emery; Everton persisted with Frank Lampard for three more months and plumped for Sean Dyche as the best option to try keep the club in the Premier League. The two old vanguards of the English game are now on two wildly different trajectories.

Dyche, of course, fulfilled that brief — just! — and, as a David Moyes-esque pragmatist, appeared to be a sound choice as part of a longer-term objective of stability and, perhaps, modest improvement while the off-the-pitch drama plays out, Moshiri (hopefully!) brings in investment or simply sells the club, and the construction of Bramley-Moore Dock is completed.

Harrowingly, though, any Evertonians (most of us, then) who felt sure that the Blues would be harder to beat this season under Dyche, who now has his feet fully under the desk and has had a full pre-season to hone and drill his players, were swiftly disabused of that notion this afternoon. Many of them walked out as the scoreline worsened. How long before they just stop showing up to begin with?

This was as bad as anything Lampard or Rafael Benitez before him served up. The void in midfield as vast as it was at times under the former during the first half of last season; the defence was equally as error-prone and porous and, as Dyche admitted afterwards, he could have changed the entire team at half-time.

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Instead, though, he withdrew just one — Idrissa Gueye, who had picked up a booking during a first-half display every bit as bad as the one that saw him hooked at the Emirates at the start of March and which seemed to be the kick up the backside he needed — and shifted James Garner to central midfield alongside the persistently disappointing Amadou Onana.

Just as he was last week against Fulham, Garner had failed to track the run of the scorer of the opening goal but still being relatively young and experienced, he will surely learn. He was also being played out of position, along with too many other players, and, back in central midfield for the second period he was several shades better. Sadly, clangers from more seasoned heads in the side would ensure that there would be no way back from a 2-0 half-time deficit.

One of those was Ashley Young, who at the age of 38 must surely know better than to attempt a long throw-in into no-man’s-land in front of the defence to a centre-half in Michael Keane who is often uncertain at the best of times. And especially after the same defender had been caught embarrassingly flat-footed off a Villa throw 14 minutes earlier, hesitation and a desperate stretch for the ball that allowed Leon Bailey to effectively put the game beyond Everton’s reach.

In truth, however, the game was long gone in the first period after Villa had gone into a 2-0 lead and Dominic Calvert-Lewin had been forced to give up trying to play on with blurred vision following a hefty collision with goalkeeper Emiliano Martinez that left both players dazed and the Everton striker with a rapidly swelling face.

The incident had happened just 10 minutes into Calvert-Lewin’s latest much-anticipated comeback game with him looking fit and sharp but it was clear he wasn’t right afterwards. As the expression goes — if it weren’t for bad luck, he’d have no luck at all when it comes to injuries.

If there was a sliver of optimism, though, it came in the form of his replacement, Arnaut Danjuma who looked lively, dangerous and full of running. He came off the bench in the second half for the second game running, presumably because he wasn’t “Dyche fit”; he has to start against Wolves next week.

Everton actually started well enough during what was an even first quarter of an hour but after Moussa Diaby had skied an early effort, Everton fell irretrievably behind when Bailey drove to the byline and cut the ball back to John McGinn who crashed it home from close range to give Villa the lead.

Four minutes later, after a short corner was initially cleared and was played back in by Matty Cash, Jordan Pickford was adjudged to have fouled Olly Watkins as the striker reached for Diaby’s knockdown. True to form from the match officials, the Everton keeper was penalised where Manchester United’s Andre Onana was let off a week ago for an even more blatant foul.

Douglas Luiz confidently swept the resulting penalty past the keeper’s dive and put the visitors into a two-goal deficit they never looked likely or able to overturn despite there only being 23 minutes on the clock.

Everton’s midfield was routinely being overrun and after Gueye gave up possession in his own half, Douglas Luiz played Diaby in but his shot was saved by Pickford.

Then, when Doucouré lost an aerial challenge, Lucas Digne, who was given the freedom of the left flank for much of the contest, whipped in a cross that Diaby met but was denied again in brilliant fashion by Pickford who pushed his volley onto the post.

Danjuma would have Everton’s first meaningful effort on target as the first half moved into lengthy stoppage time but was foiled by Martinez at the near post but overall their performance had been poor.

With Gueye having had a generally torrid first period topped off with a booking for scything through McGinn, Dyche hooked him at half-time and introduced Dobbin, with Garner moving inside to his preferred position in central midfield.

But the Toffees’ problems were compounded by yet another injury as Iwobi pulled up with an apparent hamstring tear and was replaced by Neal Maupay, with Danjuma moving out to the left flank where he continued to provide Everton’s greatest threat.

Any small hope they had of getting anything from the game evaporated seven minutes into the second half, though. Digne spotted two runners with a throw-in and caught Keane off guard, the defender only able to get enough on the ball to divert it into the path of Bailey who had time and space to drill it though Pickford’s legs.

Watkins should have made it 4-0 four minutes later when Diaby threaded him in but he dragged his shot across goal and narrowly wide while Martinez did well to parry Maupay’s volley at the other end as Everton briefly threatened to make a game of it.

The rout was completed with a quarter of an hour to go, though, when Young inexplicably tried a long throw back to Keane as the only man back and under-cooked it, which allowed Duran to knock it past the centre-back, advance on the stranded Pickford and slot home Villa’s fourth.

Danjuma was unfortunate not to grab a first goal for the Blues in the 85th minute when his low drive deflected off a defender and just missed the far post but there would be no consolation for Everton on a chastening afternoon that left them rock bottom after two games played.

It took Dyche far too long to realise that a central defence with Keane in it is one with an inherent weakness and it was no surprise that when his former Burnley charge was taken out of the side for the four most important games at the end of last season, the Blues were able to pick up the points they needed to survive.

It’s no fun singling out specific players, particularly on a day when so many other players were abjectly bad but the statistics with Keane in the side make for grim reading — in the 20 games under Dyche where Keane has started, Everton have picked up 8 points and conceded 25 goals; without him, the team’s record is 13 points and only 9 conceded. (Hat-tip to @saywattharry for the stats.)

It’s not mere coincidence and Dyche’s blind spot regarding the 30-year-old was a major reason why some fans questioned whether the manager was the right man to take the club forward this season.

Yerry Mina may not have played very much but on the occasions he did, he gave a very clear indication of the kind of player Everton needed to sign to, first, cover for him and, now, replace him. That there is not a shred of evidence that Kevin Thelwell is even looking to bolster the defence with 11 days left of the transfer window is deeply concerning but the time has very definitely come to see if Jarrad Branthwaite can do the job.

For the rest of the side, this is going to be an important week of reflection and then hard work and focus to ensure that they come out on the right side of an early-season six-pointer against Wolves. Otherwise, psychologically, things could begin to spiral out of control very quickly.

Reader Comments (88)

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Jim Bennings
1 Posted 21/08/2023 at 06:29:31
Somehow the result didn't even shock me.

We are watching the worst most spineless Everton side in decades after all that seeks to have a kink of conceding quick fire goals and tossing games away very quickly.

The defence has been no real tougher under Dyche than it was under Frank Lampard or Rafa Benitez.

Now we are tasked with replacing the dreadful Michael Keane with an equally dreadful Ben Godfrey or take a huge risk and plunge Branthwaite in,not ideal to start a relatively inexperienced at this standard lad into such a poor team that seems to always be defending.

The midfield I can't even comment on because I didn't realize we had one yesterday.

I'd actually happily take offers for any of those midfielders yesterday because none are anywhere near dynamic enough or have a particularly useful skill set.

If United want Onana then let's fleece them for 50 million and a bit of revenge for the times when we've been fleeced by them for the duds they've sold us over the years.

Dyche, this is going to be your hardest job in football let me just tell you this, Burnley was a doddle compared to Everton 2023.

Mal van Schaick
2 Posted 21/08/2023 at 06:49:59
I’m afraid that it was a repeat performance of running around and passing with no substance, linked to too many missed tackles, too many stray passes. It was in fact a performance of disjointed ‘ let’s hope ‘.

The central defence conundrum looks like it needs now to be resolved by a new signing, rather than pairing what we all ready have. Unless, Branthwaite is given his opportunity?

From what I saw players played as individuals in the final third of the pitch, rather than looking like linking up as team mates, and having an understanding with each other.

All on all, there is work to be behind the scenes and on the training ground with Wolves up next, whether the performances get better, or the results improve is anybody’s guess.

Rick Tarleton
3 Posted 21/08/2023 at 06:51:14
For a few years now Everton have been poor individually and collectively, it would be hard to see a Premier League player who defends as badly as Keane did yesterday or a striker who has less idea in front of goal than Maupay, yet the problem is and has been for some time the paucity of ability in the midfield.
Garner looks to have some idea and can pick out a long pass, so I am to some extent excluding him from my rant, but the job of a midfield is to work as a unit. They support the attack and drop back to help the defence, they work cohesively, usually one plays slightly wider and helps his full back and when attacking provides crosses, one covers in front of the back four and one acts as a supplementary attacker. When there's a fifth, as Everton often use, he is available to supplement all of the above roles. However, above all they have to be aware of each other and cover each other's roles when necessary. Everton's midfielders don't do any of that. They run around like headless chickens barely aware of their own job and totally unaware of their unit. Gueye has trouble patrolling in front of theback four, Iwobi runs and runs, but he has the worst defending full back in the League on his flank (Patterson) and yet he is defensively totally inept, Onana sees the game pass him by, he shows glimpses of ability, but when does he take a game by the scruff of the neck and actually influence it? Doucoure has poor control, panics in front of goal and seems to run into the wrong space 90% of the time.
So our inadequate defenders are often caught out by the opposition midfielders breaking through unopposed, our equally inadequate strikers have little supply of decent balls and little genuine support in the final third.
I wonder when we will get players who can work as a unit and not just work on their own game.
Relegation beckons especially if we get a points deduction in October.

Danny O’Neill
4 Posted 21/08/2023 at 07:39:34
I've given my comments on yesterday enough, so won't go over old ground.

I gave up blaming managers for the state we are in years ago. That isn't the problem.

Institutionally, we need a strategy and a vision. We aren't getting that.

Eddie Dunn
5 Posted 21/08/2023 at 08:26:17
The mindset of the team was wrong, and despite Dyche complaining at how far off it we were, he has set the tone in training and in his prematch talk.

Now I know managers cannot legislate for inept players, and we all have seen similar mistakes from Keane in the past. But the manager could have picked Branthwaite but did not.

The midfield is slow. Onana strolls around and is either playing within himself, or nursing a niggle. He rarely breaks sweat and Gana is proving to be incredibly limited. His passing is poor and he is slowing down with age.

Doucoure is full of energy and has been given the remit to join the lone striker. He can't pass. So often our moves broke down with an over- or under-hit pass from one of the midfield.

Iwobi gave the possession away and invited counter attacks on a couple of occasions, when a decent ball would have launched us forward.

As for DCL, it is worth remembering that Martinez is a cynical bastard and made sure he left as much on our striker's cheek, as he could.

Unlike our thick goalie, he knows how to disguise his intent. Jordan, on the other hand is now hated by fans and refs and his desperate lunge towards Watkins was punished, even though the contact was slight.

Dyche was guilty of playing our best passer out on the right. Garner is a proper footballer. He needs to play centrally. But he lets his man go and Patterson is always out of position.

Plenty of things to sort out and Dyche can blame individuals all he likes but, like last season, he sticks with guys who underperform. He is now under pressure and the lack of quality is there for all to see.

Dominic might be out for several weeks and goals look like hailstones in the Sahara. Any optimism for a 12th to 15th place finish has all but gone.

David Bromwell
6 Posted 21/08/2023 at 08:28:06
As a fan for over 70 years, I am not sure what to do or say. The club has faced bad times before but I think our present circumstances are the worst I remember. Clearly on the field we are a complete mess whilst off the field the whole future of the club remains uncertain.

Of course it's a joy to go and stand outside and watch with pride and joy the construction of our fabulous new ground but it's impossible not to have grave doubts about the viability and future of our once great club.

It seems all the present manager can do is to tinker with his squad of players, who are very clearly no better than the relegation candidates of recent seasons. I was no big fan of Coady, Mina and Gray but any one of them would have improved yesterday’s team.

Things look desperate to me; we need 3 points next Saturday, and to get them we will need a very different team to the one which failed to turn up yesterday.

Bill Fairfield
7 Posted 21/08/2023 at 08:31:49
Another dreadful performance to match the garbage served up since Moshiri took over.

The sad thing is it won't be the last. The same failures will once again be turned out versus Wolves next week.

I really feel for the brilliant support that travels to every away game, only to be served up with a no show yesterday.

Real change is needed at the top of our club. The nightmare continues.

Gareth Williams
8 Posted 21/08/2023 at 08:32:22
This is a poor Everton team, the worst we have had for a long.

I just don’t think Sean Dyche is the man for the job and, the way the season has started, if he can’t turn it round soon, he will be on his way.

Jacques Sandtonian
9 Posted 21/08/2023 at 08:43:34
I believe Dyche may have been found out for his naivety, at least with regards to Michael Keane. He was at least four games behind the rest of us in realising that a fit Mina must go in for Keane.

Dyche apparently would rather field liabilities with “match sharpness” than “gamble” on the alternative. Branthwaite has shown us nothing to suggest he cannot do a better job than Keane. With Keane struggling against Sporting in our final preseason game, Branthwaite came on to look much more assured.

Dyche displays the curious paradox of being risk averse while risk seeking, given the clear and present danger Michael Keane poses to the team.

Onana was our biggest transfer last season and I'm really starting to question the rationale there. I know Dyche wasn't there at the time. Onana is clearly a talented player with huge potential, but what role is he supposed to fill?

He drifts in and out of games. He doesn't seem to be able to make use of freedom. If he was signed to solve a problem, what is that problem? Because he was never going to solve our creative problems.

If he was signed to be a sellable asset, then let's sell him. We might have gotten James Ward-Prowse had we played a longer game, sold Onana and gone after him. We would easily have covered Ward-Prowse's transfer fee with the proceeds.

I'm seeing worrying transfer decision-making brewing now too with our left flank at risk of being over-stocked leaving us to once again field players out of position on the right. In a squad with Danjuma, Dobbin, Iwobi, Harrison and Gnonto, the closest we would have to a natural on the right would be Harrison.

And that's not getting into the worrying lack of activity in defensive recruitment.

Joe McMahon
10 Posted 21/08/2023 at 08:54:04
It’s got to the stage where I don't expect or think Everton will win games anymore, nevermind score 2 goals in a match. How has this happened? What the Hell has Kenwright done to our club? It’s pitiful.

I wanted Scott Parker as the last throw of the dice, not the limited Mr Dyche. He knew the damage Michael Keane can bring, and if he selected Yerry Mina when fit last season, we would have finished higher up the table.

My brother-in-law (Burnley season-ticket holder), sent me a text just after the game yesterday, that said if Kompany leaves at the end of the season, please don't send Dyche back up the M65.

Frank Sheppard
11 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:00:16
The Villa result was as expected, the performance was worse than expected.

I hope it serves to galvanise the players out of their torpor, and a springboard to a really positive reaction.

Denver Daniels
12 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:05:52
Why does Garner get a pass? He was to blame for last week's goal and he lost McGinn for the 1st goal today.

Villa have now won 8 straight at home so if anyone was expecting anything from this game, they need their head read.

Chris Leyland
13 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:11:12
Denver, I agree re: Garner. I think he switched off too often but I also think he's being played out of position.

His set piece taking has also been woeful for someone who is supposed to be good at it too!

Danny Baily
14 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:13:04
6 points from Wolves and The Blades and we're a point off where I'd hoped we'd be at that point in the season.

Yesterday's result is easily explained. There was a gulf in quality between the sides. Villa have spent big and,for the most part, spent well. They also have a top manager.

We brought Dobbin on and had a 38-year-old at left-back. Add to that, our star man can't seem to get more than 30 minutes on the pitch.

Rennie Smith
15 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:17:17
I thought a 0-0 would be the best we could hope for with Villa smarting after getting battered last week, but christ I didn't see that shite coming. The sad thing is Villa didn't really need to work that hard to win, you wouldn't describe it as a brilliant performance by them, they were gifted the points.

All the goals were poor but the 3rd and 4th were Sunday league defending level. Where the hell does that come from? It's not like they're arsing around in the dressing room before kick-off.

And you're right Lyndon, the merry-go-round will keep turning and it wouldn't surprise me if they go and beat Wolves on Saturday (I'm seriously hoping there of course).

Oh and a note for the marketing department, please don't post the regular "Blues looking sharp in training for the Wolves game" midweek video with film of them laughing, joking, and jumping on each other's backs, I want to see "Blues chucking up in the bushes after being run into the ground by the coaching staff" video.

Brian Harrison
16 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:24:43
I don't think there is any department of this team that works not defence or midfield and not attack, so its very difficult to see how we get anything with so much wrong with this team. Dyche and his coaches told us we will be the fittest team in the league, well after the first 2 games the opposition were both quicker all over the park than us. I know Danny in his post said he gave up blaming managers years ago as he says that isn't the problem, but that is entirely the problem. He sets the tone, picks the team decides on the pattern of play and what players to buy to fit his system. Now if he had said there are other major problems within our club I would agree wholeheartedly, but I have never seen a successful team with a bad manager.

I posted yesterday morning who is going to score the goals to keep us up, just look at the appalling goals per game ratio of our whole squad. We must have the worst midfield in the league as far as goals coring goes and last season McNeil was the top scorer with 7 and Dyche doesnt see a future for Gray who was 2nd top scorer. I couldnt help noticing the look on Cannons face when he was left on the bench to see Maupay and Dobbin get picked before him. I am hoping when McNeil and Harrison are fit at least we will have 2 goal scorers on the pitch at present we don't have any. I though Danjuma looked bright when he came on and him and Garner produced our best bit of football.

Usually I am frustrated and miserable when we lose but yesterday I felt neither of those things only the feeling of maybe this is the season when we don't have 3 worst teams than us.

Alan J Thompson
17 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:25:37
I can see why people question our midfield but you have to ask what exactly the Manager is asking them to do. Without McNeil or Gray we have no talented wide player albeit we might now have signed two more in Harrison and Danjuma and only one striker when he is fit in Calvert-Lewin, I won't include Maupay in that role and the Manager seems reluctant to at least try Cannon or Dobbin as he seemed with Simms.

So this appears to leave the midfield to act not only as providers but also as strikers. Doucoure did the necessary at the end of last season but has not repeated it in the two games of this. Gana doesn't seem capable of anything in an attacking role while yesterday Iwobi seemed to be played as a winger, a role in which he has never looked accomplished. So that leaves Onana and Garner to do the necessary in providing with the aid of overlapping full backs, but provide for whom?

The only answer maybe that we worry less about being difficult to score against, which isn't working, and look to more forward outlets which may at least just match our midfield with our opponents rather than having to also take on their defenders. Then when we've settled on format is the problem of which pegs in which holes.

You then have to ask if you have ever seen such intent from this Manager.

Mike Doyle
18 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:30:37
According to the Sky commentator we have not beaten Villa since 2016. I wasn't expecting that to change yesterday simply because without Mina & McNeill (the 2 key players in our late points grab last season) we are simply a weaker side than the one which finished the season.
No need to say more about Keane, however on Saturday I'd expect Wolves to target our right side having identified Patterson as a non-defending defender.
As for who will score our goals in this early season "6 pointer". ???
Christine Foster
19 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:30:51
I hoped the past two seasons were behind us, clear out of some but not all, surely it had to be an improvement. Hopes raised with the introduction of DCL, but trepidation with Keane at the back, Garner wide..
During pre season, I watched the training camp videos with interest. What was obvious was Keane was lagging behind during the spring to, turn, run..he was yards behind on short sprints.. I thought at the time he was not up to it. He isn't.. whatever reason he is picked is immediately invalidated against young, fast opposition attackers.
I cannot fathom Dyche this season.. we needed DCL last week..his injury yesterday was a freak accident.. but the manner of the loss must question Dyche decision making..Garner, for the second week running, completely failed in his wide position. Iwobi showed really excellent control and did exactly nothing..
Dyche said he could have taken the whole team off at half time. I have news for him..I would never have considered playing half of them. Pickford resorted to his playing the fool, the penalty could have seen him sent off..
Patterson lacks either maturity or common sense, I can't decide which..Onana fulfilled many supporters expectations once again, and didn't turn up.
Tarkowski was on leave somewhere other than villa,
What's the point in carrying on with the views if Dyche plays Keane again, ever..
I feel I am missing something, other than another glass of lager..
Most of the team don't deserve their place but we have no replacements..or few.
Bottle of the league, where we deserve to be.
Vijay Nair
20 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:46:12
Lyndon, you can't possibly be making excuses for Pickford's foul that lead to the penalty, can you??
It's not the first time he's done something stupid like that. Got away with it till now.

The rest of your analysis I have to agree with, sadly.

Denver Daniels
21 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:47:31
I'm not sure what Patterson can actually do well. He's crossing is horrendous. Row Z or straight out for a throw in on the opposite touchline. Garner needs to move into the midfield and Gana needs dropping. Onana went missing for both halves this time, not just the 2nd. Danjuma looked promising.
Martin Farrington
22 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:54:48
1. Jim. Spot on.
In fact everyone spot on.
Denver, I pointed that out and got slaughtered.
Told it was Patterson's fault 🤷🏻which is bullshit. Even if he is in the wrong position.
If a defence gets pulled left or right leaving that flank exposed and an opponent runs into that space or across from that space, you go with him. The defenders who now have their backs to that area are focused in the opposite direction.
Garner saw, tracked a bit, then gave up. Leaving both to run into the most dangerous area unchecked

Garner is a cm. End of.
Gueye is a bench warmer at best.
Onana. What do you do with him ? He has about 10 minutes of effort in him.
Iwobi needs to go to church to find out what a cross looks like.
Patterson is crap for at least 3 out of 4 games.
Keane nuff said.
Doucoure is not very good wherever you put him. But he does try. I guess.
Pickford made many mistakes yesterday. I think because he was pissed at what utter bilge he saw in front of him. When he gets angry at his team mates he starts to over compensate.
DCL ffs. Bad fortune. Give that lad a fkin break will ya.
Young should be our new throw in coach. But still at 38 he is the best outfielder we have. What that says about the others.
Tark. well he has to permanently worry about what fuck up his cb partner is gonna make next and cover for all the crosses bombing in from our right because of the inept Patterson.
Danjuma looked up for it. The only one who did.
Dobbin wont have gotten much from that game other than a sinking feeling.

As for Dyche.
He kept Burnley afloat with a team of powerful, strong, hardworking
Players. They had skill and at times were pretty good. Up front they had big centre forwards who could play.
They were reliable for many seasons.

Now he is at Everton. Non of the above is applicable to the vast majority.
He has no hope in recruitment.
So make that silk purse from that sows ear.

Where we are is due to what is at the top.
It makes me weep.

Oh and where are this investment group ?
I shudder thinking of the latest fiasco coming down the pipe.

Anyone fancy forming a footy club ?
St Domingo's is a good name

Raymond Fox
23 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:56:24
We are almost the same team player wise than last season, so what sort of performance are we expecting.
I thought we did ok against Fulham, ok I know we didnt score, but we were poor in this Villa game thoughout the team in defence and attack.

Whats Dyche to do, we havnt a bench that can improve the players he picks, Keane gets a lot of stick so you could argue thats one position he could change, but elsewhere who else.
I thought we would do well to get anything out of the Villa game and so it proved.

Lets not start calling for Dyche to be sacked, the players are what they are very ordinary, we need to be signing some quality but that doesnt seem likely just now.

Who would want to come here though, we are a mess every where that you look.

Danny O’Neill
24 Posted 21/08/2023 at 09:56:35

Sometimes there are games where you simply can't make excuses. Last week, I was frustrated with the result, but we could have won that and I was okay with the performance, as were many.

Yesterday reminded me of those games when you know we are beaten after 5 minutes. I think the word abject was appropriate.

Blue rabbits in the headlights. No team cohesion. An absent midfield. Michael Keane. I know some have suggested Young put him under pressure with the throw in, but come on. An experienced 30 year old Premier League player not being able to control a ball, even under pressure?

I've gone on about Keane for years. Forget pace, you can compensate for that if you can anticipate, read the game and get ahead of the opponent.

It wasn't all his fault, he just made the obvious mistakes. It was a collectively a bad performance.

Do not play Garner wide. He is wasted there. A thought came into my head. It's like when we used to play Osman wide. Garner is a deep sitting central midfielder with great forward passing ability from what I've seen so far.

Anyway, we have a few days to dust ourselves down, drown our sorrows, look in the mirror and get our first points on Saturday.

I wish Dominic a speedy recovery. Nasty injury.

Dave Lynch
25 Posted 21/08/2023 at 10:04:42
Dyche on last weeks performance.

"We where really on it against Fulham". we weren't, we got beat by a shit awful team.

Tony Everan
26 Posted 21/08/2023 at 10:12:06
The relegation fight is always between teams who either can’t score and leak goals. Or both . We don’t score many (any) and yesterday was no leaking matter, it was a gushing fracture. Midfield way off the pace, the defence with Keane in it always looks set up for a mistake and Patterson looks out of his depth defensively. Along with amateur mistakes across the team from many of them

As well as the essential striker ;

We need to play Branthwaite alongside Tarkowski, give him a chance PSV did and he didn’t let them down. He embraced the challenge, won a cup, got them into the Champions League!

He’s a year on and more mature now, surely he has earned his chance ahead of Keane to prove himself. I can’t work this one out with Dyche as it seems such an obvious choice.

Right back ; We’ve got to seriously consider getting a quality loan in if we can, Patterson has more development to do on this evidence.

We need to sell two of Keane, Holgate and Godfrey and get a reliable CB in to work and share duties with Branthwaite.

Onana is a project we don’t have the time for in our current situation. If we can get McTominay and maybe Maguire on loan (cue boos and cheers!) with Onana going the other way the team will have more solid foundations and ensure we transition into the new stadium as a Premier League club.

Gnonto is a player of great potential but with McNeil, Harrison, Danjuma and Dobbin we can do without.

All focus has to be on the striker position, not anther wide/ winger type forward. We’re covered!

Thelwell has to not lose focus on the fundamentals, the nuts and bolts, and adjust to what’s a necessity for the team rather than going off on unnecessary tangents and get the business done.

Kevin O'Regan
27 Posted 21/08/2023 at 11:03:03
Can't comment on yesterday's mismatch but one thing which really stands out for me when I watch many other teams (and compare to our sluggish rubbish) is their hunger to finish, to get on the end of something, to stick in a toe or head in the final ball – to play with intent in that area of the field - as a collective.

Anyone who finds themselves in that area has a spring in their step and they're dying to score and make a difference. It involves a mindset, hunger and being brazen (ie, see the 1st goal for Villa).

It involves a willingness to do things differently and surprise the opponent – it involves running your ass off from start to finish and using a brain. That is modern football: flexible, adaptive and intelligent – but all the time moving and high on adrenaline.

There's something wrong with our mushrooms all over the gaf…

Jack Convery
28 Posted 21/08/2023 at 11:19:34
For the penalty, watch Anthony Taylor. He ignores it for a few seconds, then remembers it's Everton and points to the spot.

I've watched what Pickford did. Yes, it was reckless but did he actually catch Watkins? Watkins didn't appeal for a penalty and from what I could perceive; neither did the Villa fans behind the goal.

As for the performance (or non-performance), I'd have got the lot of them to walk back up the M6.

They must know a bad result against Wolves will cause blue murder at Goodison. I hope they are up for it as a few Everton careers may finally come to an end if they are not.

This is not perfect but it's the best we have right now right now:

Young, Branthwaite, Tarkowski, Mykolenko.
Doucouré, Garner, Onana,
Danjuma, Cannon, Iwobi.

Of these, if I had a choice, only Pickford, Branthwaite, Tarkowski, Garner, Danjuma and Cannon would be picked.

Iwobi should go if he won't sign a new contract by Wednesday. Onana can go to Man Utd; we need the £50M to buy a striker and a midfielder. Doucoure, Gueye, Patterson are only squad players at best.

If we are going in for Adams, then offer them Maupay on loan as part of the deal. He will score in the Championship.

We also need a centre-back and a reserve goalkeeper. Loan or sell Holgate and Keane. Give Godfrey this season to see if he can overcome the long covid or whatever it is that's affecting his performances.

So, once again, we are approaching the end of a transfer window without getting a striker that's Premier League ready – coincidence?

Kevin Naylor
29 Posted 21/08/2023 at 11:21:16
If we lose on Saturday, then there is no hiding place for Dyche imo.

He could have used the first few games to change things around while there's no pressure, but stuck with the same old same old and now we are talking about 6-pointers 3 games in.

Losing to Fulham was a cardinal sin as that was a game we should have won. I didn't expect a result yesterday but that was a carbon copy of so many games we've had over the last 20 years or so. Why some are still surprised, I can only guess.

Well, at least the only way is up at present.

Ian Jones
30 Posted 21/08/2023 at 11:40:20
Jack, I thought Pickford hadn't caught Watkins. I think the commentators were looking at the flailing left arm/hand which didn't connect.

Martin Keown was saying that Pickford should have gone with his right arm... if he had done that, I think Watkins would have ended up in a worse state than Calvert-Lewin.

If you look at it again, I think Pickford catches Watkins with his knee. It was a penalty. If it had been down the other end, we would have all been screaming for the penalty.

Watkins did appeal whilst he was on the ground.

Kim Vivian
31 Posted 21/08/2023 at 11:47:23
Kevin (27),

I agree with most of what's being said by everyone (not everything, but mostly) but Calvert-Lewin's caved-in face was not the result of a lack of hunger to finish.

Just saying, like.

Jimmy Hogan
32 Posted 21/08/2023 at 11:54:50
Yet another depressing season ahead by the looks of it.

Some of those players were visibly not trying. They are so used to getting beaten that there was just a kind of dull apathy in their eyes.

Raymond Fox
33 Posted 21/08/2023 at 11:59:25
How's he going to change it around, Kevin? He's not gotten many better options, has he?

As for the Fulham game, we were the best team in general play, but lacked the ability to put the ball in the net.

Granted, you have to score; just being the better team is no good if you can't score.

Tom Bowers
34 Posted 21/08/2023 at 12:11:18
The first priority was always better offensive options which they failed to address.

They sat back in the hope that Calvert-Lewin would be fit and ready. He wasn't!!

They clung to the hope that Maupay would be a suitable stand-in. He Isn't!!

They were no longer satisfied Demarai Gray was up to snuff and that left desperation tactics that have fallen flat as there is no cohesion with those playing behind the ball.

Make no mistake: yesterday's game was a debacle of epic proportions and – even if with the same outfit they somehow beat Wolves – it will not resolve the fact that they are in for a big, big struggle unless there is a big shake-up soon.

Dyche's tactics of a midfield five that don't perform has rebounded and been exposed by two average teams so far.

Andrew Ellams
35 Posted 21/08/2023 at 12:19:27
Gareth @ 8, who or what is the best man for the job?

Since Moshiri came in we've tried the up-and-coming Silva, the old master in Ancelotti, proven winner in Benitez, ex-player with a big name, Lampard, and renowned bottom-of-the-table scrappers Allardyce and Dyche.

I've missed out Koeman because I still have no idea what he actually was.

Jim Bennings
36 Posted 21/08/2023 at 12:21:18
I'd have a deadline for the Gnonto deal if I was Everton.

I'd say to Leeds "If you aren't taking our deal by Wednesday at the latest, then we're walking away from it." See if they want to be stuck with an unhappy player.

There are too many other areas of the pitch that we need to be prioritizing right now: a striker is an absolute necessity.

We are also crying out for a playmaker in that midfield because we only have one way of playing and that's not through the midfield.

Centre-half we need also badly, imagine if Tarkowski got injured?

Keane, Holgate and Godfrey haven't been the answer there not ever and Branthwaite is pretty much inexperienced for it but will probably have to be thrust in to play most weeks.

Mark Atkin
37 Posted 21/08/2023 at 12:29:55
I'm sad, I'm really sad... The last 2 years has taken its toll on me mentally. I cant keep defending this awful, awful team.

There is a cancer at Everton and I can only think it's in the boardroom and at the first team training ground where mediocrity and an attitude percists wherby players can get paid extortionate amounts of money for "trying hard".

I saw another comment that summed it up in a few words: "If you keep getting Championship players (no disrespect for The Championship) and Championship managers, then you will end up in The Championship." – Simples.

Jimmy Hogan
38 Posted 21/08/2023 at 12:46:13
Andrew #35.

With hindsight, we should never have fired Marco Silva. However, the fans panicked when we slipped into the Bottom 3, which made Moshiri panic.

I was one of those calling for him to be fired. I was wrong. Marcel Brands, in an interview after he had left the club, said as much.

Mick O'Malley
39 Posted 21/08/2023 at 13:02:03
We can slag off the young players all we want – Patterson, Onana, Garner – but let's be honest: it's the more experienced players who are letting us down – Keane, Gana, Docouré.

We were pathetic yesterday and Ashley Young as a converted full-back is no better than Mykolenko. Young was piss poor yesterday; he might be better going forward but Mykolenko is a better defender.

Dyche doesn't get off Scot-free either: Iwobi on the left wing? Garner on the right wing? Doucouré playing off the striker? For fuck's sake, why not use Maupay up there with Calvert-Lewin? We know he's not good enough but he is a forward, or try Dobbin there… Danjuma also?

He loves to fill the team with muscular runners. Doucouré, bar his winning goal against Bournemouth, has contributed absolutely fuck-all since we signed him. The odd goal or lung-busting run aside, he's got the touch of a baby elephant and invariably under-hits or misplaces his final pass.

We've got problems all over the pitch. It's up to the experienced players to show leadership and some pride. Also, the absolute scumbags who racially abused Onana are a stain on our fanbase.

Bill Watson
40 Posted 21/08/2023 at 13:21:13
We went to the game hoping to get, at best, a draw but what transpired was a total horror show, reminiscent of the worst away performances under Benitez and Lampard. It was certainly right up there with the trips to Wolves and Bournemouth.

The likes of Branthwaite and Cannon must wonder what they must do, or how bad others must get, for them to get on to the pitch.

What is clear is that Keane must never again be a starter and there's big question marks over Onana and Patterson to name just a few.

Stephen Colby
41 Posted 21/08/2023 at 13:41:40
The window for buying new players is still open. But which player in their right mind would consider joining a club that is so broken?
One of our potential saviours, DCL, was booed off yesterday
Keane is as popular as Gerrard, and given similar stick
How can Maupay even show his face at Goodison when he knows how reviled he is.
We have no board. And no money. And we face sanctions which might be a points deductions or financial penalty
Several of our players and a Manager were inherited from teams that were relegated.
Last season two of our better players received a roasting in the car park
We are at the foot of the table with NIL points
Death from cancer takes a long time, is painful and survivable only if drastic remediation is taken. I think recovery from our woes is impossible and we should plan for a period in the Championship. Sorry
Brian Williams
42 Posted 21/08/2023 at 13:49:46
Hey lads, any chance you can find other ways of making your point/s rather than using "cancer" or "dying of cancer" as a football reference.
Some of us would rather not have constant reminders when we're additionally suffering from "Everton".
Barry Hesketh
43 Posted 21/08/2023 at 14:02:04
Stephen @
I'm not apologising for the behaviour of 'some' Everton fans, but I find it remarkable, when that minority - even one Evertonian acting badly is one too many - is held up, by you and a few others - as one of the main reasons that Everton Football Club is in such a mess on and off the pitch, or that players will be put off joining the club, because of their words and deeds.

Perhaps, Bill should demand playing every Everton game behind closed doors, and then all those other pesky reasons for our decline will disappear as quickly as Moshiri's money.

Niall McIlhone
44 Posted 21/08/2023 at 14:08:51
You’re piece covered what I think most fans would consider the main failings at Villa Park, Lyndon, but I think today, we have the stark realisation that we truly are rock bottom, not only in terms of our PL position, but on several other fronts too:

1) Everton cannot offload unwanted players without giving them away, or paying part of their hefty wages to clubs wanting a loan.
2) The DoF is struggling to recruit the quality of player needed in the right positions.
3) There continues to be a wall of silence from our absentee owner and our Chairman as well as the interim board, and as such, the club has chosen to disassociate with it’s fan base. This is compounded by the rank poor media and PR set up which appears amateurish when compared to other PL clubs and even some clubs in the Championship.
4) The first team continues to look both disorganised and dispirited, despite the reported fitness preparation work done at FF and the comments by the manager about changing the mindset of the players towards a winning mentality.
5) Right now, fans of other clubs appear to on a feeding frenzy as to our fan base and the issue regarding jeers towards DCL, and his father’s retort calling our fans “numpties” is just the sort of thing that adds to the perception of a club at war with itself.

All that said, I still believe that Dyche will somehow improve this squad, there is yet time to strengthen in key positions, but the DoF has his work cut out, given we have very little money to play with and the general gloom hovering over the club right now.

Iakovos Iasonidis
45 Posted 21/08/2023 at 15:15:44
Sanctions and points deductions will serve as a perfect excuse for this "team". The Players we have lack quality BIG time but there is no excuse for not competing.
Andrew Ellams
46 Posted 21/08/2023 at 15:34:59
Jimmy @ 38, sometimes when a team gets into that spiral the manager just can't get them out of it. He did some good things in the second half of his first season and the 4-0 win over Man Utd will be stuff of legends for a long time at Everton but the board let him down that summer by not replacing Zouma or Gana and things went downhill from there.
Eric Myles
47 Posted 21/08/2023 at 15:35:38
Jimmy #38, Brands actually said in an interview that you were wrong to call for Silva's sacking?? 😁
Lyndon Lloyd
48 Posted 21/08/2023 at 15:52:06
Vijay (20): "Lyndon, you can't possibly be making excuses for Pickford's foul that lead to the penalty, can you??"

Not at all, Vijay, just bemoaning the continuing lack of consistency whereby some clubs get away with fouls while others don't.

Paul Kossoff
49 Posted 21/08/2023 at 16:06:32
Hopefully good news on DLC. He's posted a picture of himself on his social me saying "It's a bit sore but he expects to be back shortly."

He apologized for not having the game he was expecting. His dad was very upset about the abuse Dom suffered after the game.

Clive Rogers
50 Posted 21/08/2023 at 16:39:16
Patterson was the worst player on the pitch. He looked like a non-league player.
Andrew Ellams
51 Posted 21/08/2023 at 17:00:52
Clive, Patterson and Mykolenko were Benitez parting gift to us and neither of them are very good at all.
Jeff Spiers
52 Posted 21/08/2023 at 17:21:41
The road is long. Very long
Kim Vivian
53 Posted 21/08/2023 at 18:12:40
Slightly off topic but why are so many people on various threads talking pretty assumptively and often about points deductions? I know it's only ToffeeWeb but it appears on various other platforms as well and it's like we are talking ourselves into it.

Surely at every opportunity we should be expressing outrage at the mere notion of a points deduction exclusively for Everton, threatening total meltdown, mayhem and protestation, and basically doing everything we can to dissuade the powers that be from taking that action.

Iain Johnston
54 Posted 21/08/2023 at 19:51:08
We'll be in for Greenwood now all charges have been dropped.

The CPS have said that "new material had come to light, there's no longer a realistic prospect of conviction".

This in laymen terms means it was someone else.

Of course the do gooders will say that there's no smoke without fire... well here's a newsflash, in this media world we now live in and bow to there is always smoke without fire.

Oliver Molloy
55 Posted 21/08/2023 at 20:26:10
Do gooders Iain ?

I know we are desperate but if Everton even thought about giving Greenwood a jersey that would be the end for me.

Ian Edwards
56 Posted 21/08/2023 at 20:32:11
Not sure of the correct thread for this but just heard Andy Rankin has passed away. Older blues will remember him well... especially a European night when he was a penalty shoot out hero.
Nick Page
57 Posted 21/08/2023 at 20:34:19
Wasn't Greenwood cleared? Mendy was also cleared.

Expensive lawyers or lack of evidence – wasn't Sigurdsson also cleared? This didn't even go to court! And didn't losing him materially affect the club on and off the pitch?

Remember what happened to Dave Jones at Southampton?

Stephen Colby
58 Posted 21/08/2023 at 20:49:49
Barry @43. Fair point.

But would you consider joining a company where there was no board, no money, a Chairman who was reviled, whose staff are yelled at and verbally abused, who have a potential and serious upcoming fine, all our competitors are better than us, and where many of the staff are rejects from our competitors?

Thought not.

Joe McMahon
59 Posted 21/08/2023 at 21:00:36
Iain, we certainly can't go there, Everton are a target for abuse and hated by the media and many as it is. Our image is awful.
Alan J Thompson
60 Posted 22/08/2023 at 04:19:40
Kim (#53);

Why are people talking about a points deduction?

Possibly because the alternatives are a fine which would seem somewhat pointless as a penalty for a club being over the allowed debt, a transfer embargo which again would seem to stop a club spending money it hasn't got, so the only alternative based on penalties for similar offences imposed at other places would be a points deduction.

I can't see that we would be as lucky as say City and have the whole matter almost forgotten as we can't afford the lawyers because of the debt we are in.

Catch-22 has nothing on Everton's mess but of course, we could be innocent owing not to the debt we are in but the circumstances that caused the debt. However, somebody might ask the question of how we will get out of debt now those exceptional circumstances have passed.

Kevin Edward
61 Posted 22/08/2023 at 08:28:58
Agreed, this was as bad as anything served up under Benitez and Lampard.

What will define Dyche is how he reacts to it next game. He is probably stubborn with who he thinks are the best to fit into his team but the injuries will force changes, so there is a chance he can get a turnaround in fortune.

He won't appreciate having been completely undone in 20 minutes at Villa, but is he brave enough to try something different?

I hope he does and stumbles upon something, and we get out of this self-inflicted rut. I hate the modern game, just can't relate to multi-millionaires who either don't care or can only be bothered to turn up every now and then.

Gareth Stephens
62 Posted 22/08/2023 at 08:34:26
#42 - Brian - totally agree with you.

#60 The whole notion of Profitability and Sustainability doesn't make any sense. It's supposed to be there to 'protect' the existence of clubs by stopping them from spending more than they can afford. If fans want clubs to sign expensive players and owners are stupid enough to do so, then let them. If they then go into administration, then shit happens.

The reality is that any punishment (fine, transfer embargo or points deduction) will exacerbate what it's there to protect – clubs going bust.

Michael Keane is just not Premier League quality for me. He always seems to think that being roughly (I say roughly 'cos his positioning could improve quite a bit) in the right defensive area is job done, then just seems to switch off.

He never anticipates, never seems to have any urgency or desperation to clear balls. And his body language whenever we concede pisses me off as well – '[huff], oh no, we've conceded again'. I want to see him more pissed off than me.

Onana is just lazy. You lose the ball, then you bust a lung to get back and help defend, not just trot back.

Robert Tressell
63 Posted 22/08/2023 at 08:55:42
Villa under Gerrard were underperforming markedly after investing heavily in the team. Emery did a good job with a much better squad than ours.

Everton under Lampard were underperforming but not by much. Dyche overperformed markedly with a woeful squad that probably should have finished adrift of Saints at the bottom.

Keane, Maupay and Iwobi get grief but Gueye and Doucoure are awful. Inconsistency and mistakes from Onana, Garner and Patterson show why it's hard to use even more youngsters. Mina is sorely missed. Gray is being held back for sale. Calvert-Lewin is injured and Danjuma and Harrison (who should help) yet to feature.

The financials are killing us, not crap management. Emery wouldn't be doing better with this squad – and crucially wouldn't have joined a club with such crap squad and no money.

Brian Harrison
64 Posted 22/08/2023 at 09:43:30
Robert @63,

I can't agree that Lampard underperformed but not by much. When he took over from Benitez, we were 16th – 4 points above relegation, and we hardly improved our position all season. The following season, when he was sacked, we were 19th. He also signed 2 players who you criticize in your post: Maupay and Gueye.

You say it's more the financial constraints that are hampering us more than, in your words, crap managers. I have to disagree; there are managers whose teams aren't struggling who have spent nothing like what we have spent.

The problem is this club, for most of my life, has appointed crap managers and that's why, in the last 70 years, there are only 3 managers who have won anything.

Phil Greenough
65 Posted 22/08/2023 at 15:33:35
Iain @54 and Nick@57, did you not see the pictures of Greenwood's girlfriend or hear the verbal abuse she received? Yes, the charges were dropped, but that does not make him innocent, just that his girlfriend dropped the charges.

I sincerely hope that Everton, or any other British football team, doesn’t anywhere near him. Greenwood would probably be best suited to the Saudi league, given his opinion of women.

Paul Birmingham
66 Posted 22/08/2023 at 15:43:07
Brian, at 64, spot on.
The smelling salts in the case of Everton,don't lie.

Nick Page
67 Posted 22/08/2023 at 15:49:20
Does nobody deserve a second chance, Phil? We’ve all made mistakes, some bigger than others.
Robert Tressell
68 Posted 22/08/2023 at 15:57:34
The team Lampard took to 19th was probably about the 17th or 18th worst squad in the division. He's a crap manager but I don't think that counts as underperforming by much. We then sold Gordon. The team Dyche then kept up was worse than Southampton, Leeds and Leicester.

After heavy investment, the team Gerrard was dragging into a relegation fight was probably the 8th best squad in the Prem or thereabouts.

They have since bought three Champions League quality players in Diaby, Torres and Tielemans. We are no longer competing with Villa, they are miles and miles ahead in squad quality.

The real issue is that our finances are killing our ability to improve the squad and have been since the January window before Ancelotti left.

This leaves us just above the three promoted sides in squad quality, with a probably the sane sort of financial constraints around improving the squad.

Phil Greenough
69 Posted 22/08/2023 at 16:09:50
I understand some people deserve second chances, Nick, but would you be so accommodating if it was your daughter he had beat up? There is no place for footballers, or anybody for that matter, who are idolised by children, who perpetrate domestic violence. I forgot to add, the act of domestic violence is not a mistake.
Kieran Kinsella
70 Posted 22/08/2023 at 16:18:23

Rightly or wrongly, morally, ethically, legally you can argue about Greenwood. But the reality is that in football like entertainment, fans are using disposable income and choosing to use it in support or someone. If they don't like that person and find him/her unpalatable or worse then they are not going to support them. If Greenwood were a plumber, a coal minor or something he wouldn't have to worry about the court of public opinion. His colleagues would probably be unaware of his past crimes or alleged crimes too. But he is a public figure and most people do not want to see someone doing what many believe he did being paid millions and being feted as a star.

Alan J Thompson
72 Posted 22/08/2023 at 16:41:12
Gareth(#62); I would suggest that the original intention of P&S limits on debt are more to stop clubs from having an unfair advantage by spending money on transfers that they don't have in the hope of getting more prize money and European competition qualification. The only reason they wouldn't want clubs to go bust is so they can complete their fixtures and not make a mess of League placings which could affect all positions including relegation if they fail so to do. You do have to ask though what the thinking is in settling on a period of three years.
Ian Bennett
73 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:17:40
The Manchester United footballer Mason Greenwood is no longer facing criminal proceedings over attempted rape after prosecutors dropped the case against him.

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said there was “no longer a realistic prospect of conviction” after key witnesses withdrew their cooperation from the investigation.

Most believe that the images online would very much have got a guilty verdict, but the witness wouldn't go through with it. He's finished in English football, but money talked - and he got away with it.

Iain Johnston
74 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:22:32
Phil@65, the woman in question has just given birth to their first child.

Her boyfriend, Greenwood, allegedly physically & sexually assaults her and the first thing she does whilst bleeding from a cut lip is post images on social media???

She has also maintained throughout and on the day the police turned up that her phone had been hacked. She also knew nothing about the Police until they turned up at the house... she was still in with Greenwood. She certainly didn't call them at the time or during the days afterward.

Most women I've had the unfortunate need to meet in similar situations want to run & hide, many even need coaxing into receiving medical attention... they certainly don't pose for pictures, especially one's which aren't apparent selfies and possibly taken by a third party.

Andy Crooks
75 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:25:35
Good post,Ian Bennett. No club will touch the beast. Nick, everyone deserves a second, but do you actually believe that this vile monster just got caught in some one off drunken prank??

Andrew Ellams
76 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:30:52
Meanwhile Forest have snapped up Gonzalo Montiel for under £10m
Nick Page
77 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:32:19
I don’t know what to believe because I don’t know all the facts but seems like quite a few do, and have judged him for it, despite it not being presented before a judge.
So back to my other point; was Sigurdsson guilty and should he have been treated differently? The club took an immediate moral high ground without considering the financial implications.

Interesting debate 👍

Andrew Ellams
78 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:33:23
Nick, if it was my daughter the piece of shit would never be fit to kick a football again.
Kim Vivian
79 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:37:10
He's a right back Andrew - 76 - Not what we need to be spending £10m (we haven't got) on.
Andy Crooks
80 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:37:50
Nick, comparing Greenwood with Sigurdsson is just wrong.
John Kavanagh
81 Posted 22/08/2023 at 17:38:49
Kim V @53. Whilst I can to a degree accept your point that we are talking ourselves into a points deduction, I think those of us who fear it do so on reasonable grounds.

The FA likes to use us to make an example of a top flight club where it feels it needs to make one. See pitch invasions and simulation as two examples, or exceptional fines for managers making a simple factual statement e.g. getting penalties at that place (as opposed to, say, assaulting officials).

No, they dare not ever touch any of the 'big 6' for fear of European Super League 2 resurfacing. And picking on a perceived 'small club' would be seen as palpably unfair. So for the FA the porridge is just right for picking out Everton. Neither too big and powerful nor too small. And run by two dodgy blithering idiots.

The other factor to consider is this. Chairman Bill says everything is in order and there's no case to answer as all the rules were kept to. Can you not see after over 20 years of lies and incompetence that relying on his word and assurances would be a grave error?

And even if we end up not being docked under the financial sustainability rules there's still the risk of the administrators and receivers being called in with an instant points cull. The 'existential threat' that now hangs over us (hope you are getting better Paul the Esk). We know the situation is bad, but not just how bad.

Before this wretched season even started, I said that we needed to go for 52 points to stay up and dodge all the bullets. I'm sticking with that. Based on Sunday, we'd be very lucky to get past 30.

Robert Tressell
82 Posted 22/08/2023 at 18:00:00
I think some people are so desperate to see some decent football at Everton, they'd accept Jimmy Saville, OJ Simpson and Prince Andrew if they could provide an extra 10 goals a season. Meanwhile DCL gets stick for living a clean life but having the temerity to wear daft clothes every now and again. Strange world.
Dean Johnson
83 Posted 22/08/2023 at 18:04:51
Sack em all. Manager, coaches, board, youth coaches and then cancel all player contracts.

Put a monkey in charge and play my 2 ye old sons nursery class, couldn't be any worse could it really?

Everton = purgatory

Joe McMahon
84 Posted 22/08/2023 at 18:13:40
Robert, you missed out Cyril Smith and Dennis Nilsen.
Andrew Ellams
85 Posted 22/08/2023 at 18:17:07
Kim he is but my point is more about the level of business that clubs are doing compared to us. That fee for a 26 year old World Cup winner is not to be sniffed at.

We do need a second right back though.

Kim Vivian
86 Posted 22/08/2023 at 18:48:49
John (81) hi. Without knowing the precise detail of whatever it is for which we are actually going to be investigated, my gut feeling is we won't suffer the indignation of a points deduction. On that point - In all truth the club is pouring ample indignation upon itself.

I was just trying to intimate that if somehow a groundswell could be created that was assumptive of no points deduction then maybe it would be harder to hand down. I haven't read or heard any respected commentators or pundits claim that we should incur a points deduction, but I am hearing loud noise from fans and on social media etc that it is coming. Like I say its almost like we are kind of wishing it upon ourselves subconsciously. However, you may be bang on with your 50 odd points target. I hope not.. Do you happen to know the relevance of the October date for all this malarkey?

Andrew (85), hi. Yes I realised your point, absolutely, and agree - but I was just saying, like, where would you like to see £10m being invested?

Raymond Fox
87 Posted 22/08/2023 at 19:08:54
They wont want a dedution for us because they certainly wont want to do the same for City or Chelsea, can you imagine the fuss if they did.
Robert Tressell
88 Posted 22/08/2023 at 20:19:31
Montiel is a genuinely classy full back. It would be great if we had a spare £10m to sign him. Sadly we don't. We cannot now compete with the likes of Bournemouth and Forest in the transfer market and they are edging ahead in squad quality as a result. There's still 10 days to go and I expect incoming players - so things can change but I expect us to finish the window with about the 15th or 16th best squad - but I still think (hope) we'll finish about 13th.
Oliver Molloy
89 Posted 22/08/2023 at 21:10:31
Iain @ 74,

Having just read your post, can I ask what you actually mean by your last paragraph?

You wrote as below.

"Most women I've had the unfortunate need to meet in similar situations want to run & hide, many even need coaxing into receiving medical attention... they certainly don't pose for pictures, especially one's which aren't apparent selfies and possibly taken by a third party."

You stating having met women in "similar situations" is an acknowledgement that Greenwood is no angel or am I wrong?

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