That one’s gotta sting

Get on, my fellow Blues!!!

As for next season... more misery, methinks!

Lucky we've managed to even stay up.

Can't defend, can't hardly attack.

4 home wins in the final season at Goodison, everyone involved in that embarrassing statistic should be hanging their heads in shame.

Keep Pickford and Branthwaite, Ndiaye (but he must improve his end product) — chuck the rest as far as I'm concerned.

Moyes seems to think that there may be some of this squad that he would retain but, in all honesty, it has become apparent after this game that we need 8 to 12 new players to get anywhere near a decent Premier League position next season.

We cannot persist with a lot of the current players, they've had their chance and blown it.

First live game for me for a couple of years. Using a colleague's season ticket in the Lower Gwladys Street. Before the game was promising with quite a bit of chanting going on. As soon as the whistle went, it died off almost completely with only sporadic bits after that, mainly when we scored.

Virtually no-one sat in the Gwladys Street (but appeared to in every other stand) but there was little in the way of ‘buzz' and efforts to exhort. A lot of little groups kept up almost continuous conversations that weren't always centred on what was happening on the pitch.

Their first corner and I expected the crowd to be roiling and barracking their players, but it just stood mutely observing.
Yes, it didn't help that much of the game was more like a game of chess than a football game, but today was miles away from the ‘bearpit' I'm used to Goodison being.

The ball retention is still appalling, there's no composure on the ball, no pace in the side, and zero killer instinct, and surprisingly a lack of defensive nous.

How many times this season have we pissed a 2-0 lead up the wall?

Bournemouth, Villa, Man Utd, now today?

It's Ipswich – never been a rival, never will be.
Time and again, games are “bigged up” but, if there's nothing on them…?

No steel in the side; besides, it's not allowed. The Premier League is apathetic for most who have no chance of winning. We've now no jeopardy of relegation.

We wake up for the derby or when the relegation devil is biting our arse. We have no talisman swashbuckling through opposition ranks, we have no nothing.

Get some honest endeavour, so yeah, lots of casual chatting goes on whilst folks resting their chins on their hands at another borefest.

But the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock? Yeah, what of it? It isn't home and the crowd are still not gonna be up for it.

Don't anyone be going to games for atmosphere — it's largely gone.

True words, can't disagree with any of it.

Empathy — perfect word to sum up supporting Everton Football Club in 2025 and basically over the majority of the last 25 years.

Fans have to sit and watch Liverpool win trophy after trophy, play in all the biggest games, have all the biggest name heroes and superstars.

Everton fans have nothing but a season of sentiments leaving Goodison to look back on, and we couldn't even manage to navigate a semi-decent season to give a fitting send-off.

West Ham left in Boleyn in 2015-16 with 12 home wins, and a carnival atmosphere.

We will leave Goodison with empathy and sentiment, just that, nothing more, just almost a serene level of mediocrity as per usual.

No big games here for years, no Cup semi-final, first or second legs of the League Cup, no European footy since November 2017, even that ended with a 1-5 hammering to Atalanta.

It's just impossible nowadays to really get up for these games because it's a copy and paste from most seasons this last two decades.

They out-muscled us and rattled our centre-backs and then our engine room seemed to sit off, unlike against Man City and Arsenal.

We cannot handle possession like good teams as decision making doesn't last to be effective. One decent cross all day! Change has to be drastic.

I'm glad you got a ticket and was able to experience Goodison Park for one last time, Si. I actually wrote on ToffeeWeb yesterday that I was looking forward to what the 1878 Group had organised a lot more than I was looking forward to the game. The football has mostly been very dull for years upon years now, mate.

Reading Jim B's post, got me thinking about why I have privately been calling Goodison Park "The Cursed by Kenwright Stadium" for a long time now.

We can't accuse the supporters of not doing that these past difficult seasons. They have been second to none.

Sorry, I get very protective about Evertonians.

I can't wait to leave Goodison now. It's not been a great place to watch football the past 3 seasons.

Played 56
Won 18
Lost 22
Drawn 16
For 62
Against 73

We've got to hope that the new stadium brings a change of fortune as we had been a very hard watch at home for years and the football is an endurance test at times.

They were actually quite good and it was a good comeback really. I think they will come straight back up.

Patterson can't defend, Alcaraz failed his audition (cross for the first goal notwithstanding), Beto spent more time on the ground moaning than being productive, he couldn't trap the proverbial bag of cement. Calvert-Lewin looked more threatening in the 10 minutes he was on.

Garner and Gana both had good games. But, we had a fair amount of decent possession, but no wit or guile in the final third to create much.

A lot of work and refresh required before next season.

Why the repeat?

1. It's such an abysmal record that it deserves some repeated scrutiny.

And:

2. I meant to post it on this thread as it was more relevant but I did it on the wrong one!

The same applies to the Premier League as a whole. Other than some jostling for the European spots the league was done months ago.

I stopped watching games a couple of weeks back. Lots of players appear to have mentally checked out ages ago and I was fed up of watching terrible matches played at testimonial pace.

I didn't say I expected a raucous atmosphere or that the performance today was conducive to the fans getting energised.

I was just responding to Les (3) in that I didn't think the crowd today was more enthusiastic than the players (who did keep trying even if it was unimaginative).

I do remember certain things happened automatically in the past. Any opposition corner, but especially the first or if the opposition seemed to be gaining confidence, was met by furious, snarling, disapproval. There was nothing like that today.

I get that the team has to inspire, but the fans can still be more upbeat than the team properly deserve, if they choose.

It was a nothing game but there was still a notable drop in intensity when they scored their first. Some people never said a positive word all through the game, judging everything as ‘shit'.

Again, no credit is given to the opposition for actually having a game plan to make it harder for us to play the game the way the players would prefer.

We all want more from the club and the players but that doesn't mean supporters are uniquely immune to hubris and may have to take care they aren't bigging themselves up a bit too much.

His header was quality. He is injury-free and gets stuck in, Calvert-Lewin is yesterday's fish-and-chip papers, move him on.

The whole team don't have enough goals in them.

Ndiaye is looking more and more like a top 5-a-side player but doesn't impact 11-a-side games.

Lots got their wish with Doucoure and Harrison out of the starting 11. Things didn't look much different except off the ball we looked more vulnerable.

I thought Garner, McNeil and Gana had good games.

It's so obvious we need quality down the flanks.

On to next week's debacle.

I think you are right regarding attack, but I think the two problems are the lack of a possession possessing midfielder who is a playmaker and is able to inter-pass with his midfield colleagues.

The other problem is Moyes's negative tactics when he tries to ensure a result from games. This is where his negative change in formation results in a lack of wing play going forward and Everton go too deep and do not reinforce midfield.

Mangala was the player with Lindstrom, to a lesser extent, who fitted the bill and Moyes was more positive in his attack. Once they were injured, Moyes was at sea and his hardworking and negative solutions are not working.

Moyes knows that Everton needed to get results at the end of this season in preparation for next season. He has told the players this, but has failed to deliver.

Beto seems to be the striker who is the most likely to score. The next 3 were all players we wanted to see. The full-backs played as high as we've seen for years. The central defenders were also highest we've had by years, and had the pace to get back. And in the absence of choice, Garner and Gana pick themselves.

The trio of McNeil, Ndiaye and Alcaraz mixed around in different positions. The subs were perhaps a bit slow, but we were leading before Harrison and Calvert-Lewin come on.

I think it's very easy to say the tactics were negative. Personally, I think that is bollocks; we had 58 percent of possession, yet could only muster 3 shots on target all game. The players need to take some accountability, and show that they can attack and defend better.

Bar the one cross from Alcaraz, the crossing and set pieces were terrible. No one got to the byline, no-one tried a through-ball. Players took 2 or 3 touches when good teams take 1… or play it straight to the wide man rather than passing it through 3 men to get to that outcome.

The movement from players is awful. When players get in good positions no one helps, we just the see opposition swarm players like Harrison Ndiaye with 3 players until possession is coughed up.

Blame Moyes, get another manager in, but it changes not. These players aren't good enough, and each time they're given the ball and told to break down a team, they fail. Fans have a rosey-eyed view of our players, when the reality is they are crap.

The bar of mediocrity is so low that we will clap anything. McNeil's faux closing down previously, Alcaraz being clapped for a terrible touch and rescuing it with a toe pass to flick it in, or McNeil putting crosses out of play. The trap from Beto that went 25 yards away from him, shamed the punter in distance who was in the Hit the Bar competition at half-time.

If Moyes needs to coach some of these things out of professional footballers, then some of them shouldn't be here.

That's my last game at Goodison, the 1878s put on a show. I was so disappointed that a good youthful line-up didn't deliver to that level.

I would have played Iroegbunam just in front of Gueye and Garner. I believe he has had a raw deal in terms of playing time, to prove himself.

We looked vulnerable in midfield and Ipswich exploited our weakness, taking full advantage of acres of open space. Moyes is at fault for technical naivety in tactics and selection in that area.

His Alcaraz experiment failed. Apart from his assist in Beto's headed goal, neither player dominated. Similarly, Ndaye and McNeil looked lightweight. Although credit for McNeil's long range bullet strike.

Chermiti along with Iroegbunam, I believe, should have started the game. Neither has been afforded enough opportunity to impress, yet both have showed ability in their respective short cameo appearances so far.

We are all aware of what Beto's level is. In my opinion, he's no more than a bench player to throw on when all else fails.

I'd have liked Calvert-Lewin to have been brought on earlier in order to assess his fitness level.

Most Evertonians are of the opinion that Pickford could do nothing about either of their goals; I disagree. If you study a replay of their first, admittedly it was a wonderful shot, but Pickford's reaction was slow. A split second faster and he could have leapt to get a hand to it.

For their second, O'Brien should have been better positioned to head clear but, that aside, Pickford's timidity in coming to dominate crosses, once again left him flapping hopelessly at thin air.

Apologies, I have to keep reminding myself that I was as centre-back. Those days are gone.

Maybe if the Ipswich keeper had acted a split-second earlier, he would not have been rooted to the spot and saved McNeil's.

Sometimes you just have to give credit to a great strike. Isn't that why we watch football?

I said my own goodbyes to Goodison at the last game against Manchester City. Hard to say, but I won't be sorry about not going again. Although Goodison holds so many memories and emotions for me, my family and friends, it has too long been a place for sighs, frustration and despondency.

Most of my Everton experiences have ended in disappointment. (A repetitive acknowledgement from Walter Smith re Everton displays over 20 years ago…) Nothing's changed.

This near half-century of failure hit me afresh at the City match, when at half-time, six old men came out to take more applause for the last title achievement 40 years ago. 40 years ago! Think about it. We keep celebrating the Bayern Munich game of 40 years ago. Sheedy's free kick of 40 years ago.

40 years ago. That's a full generation. My nephew who was sitting next to me is in his early 20s. He has never experienced a trophy-winning side in his life. That is so sad. Disappointing doesn't come close.

However, in contrast to the above reflective despondency, I firmly believe the future offers us something brighter. Something better. A new ‘Golden Vision'.

I doubt very much that our new owners will be patient and wait around for some slow organic on-field progress to take place. The new board appointments appear to show an acumen and business-like professionalism we haven't known before. I get the feeling that they will be in a hurry and ruthless in their pursuit of success.

We Evertonians are now conditioned to believe a Top 10 finish will be progress. Top 10 was never in the DNA of older Evertonians. Top 10 would have been an embarrassing disaster. Top 10 would have seen a shamed manager immediately sacked, and the board confronted with pitchforks and torches.

I honestly don't believe a Top 10 finish will be the ambition of TFG. Not even in their first full season. ‘Best of the Rest' won't be good enough. I think this is where David Moyes's expectations will collide with the owner's. I will be surprised to see Moyes lasting the full season. He may not even start it.

I believe – with the new stadium, new finance, new board, new expertise, and new ambitions – our new owners will be looking for a Top 5 finish next season and Champions League. Progression doesn't have to be slow. Look at Nottm Forest's and Crystal Palace's achievements – from bottom of the league to European contenders in a season.

Anyway, that is my hope, optimism and expectation for next season. I want mediocrity and survival ambitions gone forever. I want us to be Everton again. I want a ‘Field of Tears' to become a ‘Field of Dreams'… That would be my Golden Vision.

The problem is the lack of intensity. If the players play with intensity, it wakes the crowd up and engages them towards the football, instead of the conversations that are going on all around the ground because the football is mostly slow, mundane and boring.

Corners? I've seen more variation out of a lollipop man… and I haven't seen a lollipop man for years!

Seriously, the Evertonians deserve a medal for having to watch that every week (something a lot of fans from clubs a lot smaller than Everton have alluded to) and when you read the posts on ToffeeWeb from the people who attend away games, I always find it very noticeable that they always talk about meeting in whichever pub.

I know they talk about meeting in pubs outside Goodison, but probably 10/15% of the home crowd have had a bevy before entering Goodison, but I'm certain this increases to at least 50/60% for the away crowd.

Unfortunately (we all know this) we have a poor bunch of players, and put under pressure, they usually fold eventually. We urgently need an upgrade, so it'll be a tense summer while they sort out the goings and in-comings. We just can't be as poor next season, the owners and Moyes have a tough job to pull it off.

Anyway, the banners and reception were brilliant. Shame the players couldn't deliver.

Hopefully Saints will be on the beach, and our lot will get the job done. Goodison will always be special, it hasn't been a fortress for a long long time, but deserves better, just one last win. Up the Toffees!

I've always said, the away supporters, both at Goodison and when we travel, make the most noise.

I have loved Goodison and I'm going to love the Everton Stadium, but I always enjoy the away days. The match, the travel experience, mingling with both Evertonians and opposition supporters. We all know, but it's a different experience.

I have also always been of the opinion that the enforced seating, which happened because of that horrible tragedy at Hillsborough, had an impact, and it was for good reason. For once, I'm not criticising them, but I found it ironic that Liverpool were at the forefront of re-introducing standing at English football matches.

Maybe with safe standing, that will help the atmosphere. It certainly does in the Bundesliga where they are bouncing with their banners from start to finish whether they are winning, losing or drawing.

On the alcohol consumption side, I see away supporters stocking up with their carry outs from the nearby Sainsbury's at Euston and are well oiled by the time they get to Lime Street.

Regardless of the result, I hope we put everything aside against Southampton and give Goodison one last rousing send-off. I've got to the stage that, for once, I'm not bothered what happens on the pitch.

If that occasion isn't enough to motivate manager, players and supporters, then I am unable to explain why.

And that goes for all supporters. Those in the ground, the likely thousands around the ground, and in the city as well as those watching from afar.

For one last occasion, put everything else aside. This isn't about the team or the manager. It's about us and Goodison.

I'll end on a contradictory note, but a view that a few very knowledgable Evertonians share. I am actually looking forward to leaving Goodison. Many of my best Everton memories live there. But for 30-40 years, it's been a ball and chain as others overtook us.

Absolutely spot on, great post.

I said my goodbyes at the Leicester game but so much regurgitation of what we used to do. As you say, 40 years ago.

I've been going for just on 50 years and the last 30 have ranged from pitiful to full-on embarrassment... but amazingly, to full houses..

Is change coming? Well, for me, our fanbase deserves it... they have been waiting.

You, along with our fans, are the reason why this club have not spent any time in the Championship in the last few years.

We will no doubt have a parade of ex-players and managers on the pitch for the last game, but for me, the organisers of the 1878 Group should be first out to be paraded in front of our last home game at Goodison.

I am sure you will take the banners and flags to the new stadium where they will be displayed and look just as brilliant.

So thank you, 1878, for your fantastic work.

The ticker tape was too small and looked more like confetti and it should all be white as the blue stuff simply blends into the background. We need streamers too. Or bog rolls... lots of them.

Great idea which I firmly believe will be stolen by clubs up and down the country (deffo the Shite) but let's go full Buenos Aires against Southampton.

That was the last display organised by the 1878 Group as they want to be able to enjoy the last game of the season with family and friends instead of having to collect flags and banners.

Fair enough. These guys have done a great job, but the rest of us can follow their lead for the Southampton game.

Nearly half a century later, I still remember those incredible scenes from the River Plate stadium. I would love to have memories of similar scenes at the Old Lady to take to my grave.

I`ll get my thinking cap on…

Nice to see them given respect by being interviewed on the pitch on Football Focus.

John @25. That is the difference. There are still enough of us around who will not accept mediocrity. Of course we will support them to the hilt and beyond. But Top 10 is not success.

I genuinely feel for the lost generation I always go on about. But conversely, I admire their perseverance and dedication. It's harder for them than for me.

I thought Jimmy Garner played well but we need a player who can pull the strings, someone who can move around the pitch and knit players together.

You watch Vitinha for PSG. He is all around the pitch knitting his team together. Great midfielder.

Also, I have to agree with Brian, and his consistent praise of the 1878 fan group, because it was definitely the best thing about attending yesterday's penultimate game at Goodison.

Let's give Goodison the send-off she deserves and raise the roof from start to finish. A win is always nice but, as Danny says above, against Southampton it really doesnt matter. The only thing that does matter is our final finale.

That is the best post on here in ages.

This probably means Everton will win 5-0!

Some will say they agree and qualify it as progress. But it's not. Progress to me is winning, challenging, not being best of the rest.

I want TFG to state that as their objective and tell me when they expect it to happen. I am old enough to remember what success and ambition meant, Young enough to see it destroyed, poisoned by greed and incompetence. Hopeful enough to believe in owners with ambition, and proud enough to still love my team.

But David Moyes, as good a manager he is, is but a step or two up the ladder from Sean Dyche. Nothing wrong in his achievements this season, but I would hope his expectations are the bare minimum of what TFG expect.

To do this, we are in need of a total on-field rebuild that few of our current squad will survive. When I see PSG or Inter or Barcelona, I remember when we could give them a game; instead, I see Ipswich, I see Beto, I see Harrison, et al.

So my message is clear. Instead of letting David Moyes build a team, let someone with the skill, passion and ability start the drive to being successful once more.

Vision. Hope. Passion. I want to believe again.

Christine, spot on. Wouldn't it be great to be watching Everton and expecting or even knowing they will win? I have not had that feeling truly since the '80s – although I also go to most games with the belief that we can win. Come on TFG show us your ambition and make us great again.

If they want Top 5 and give any manager only £50M, then it won't happen.

That's exactly the feeling I had when I started going the game in the early '60s. Always expected a win and Goodison was a fortress.

Neil, well, they are Americans, so no harm in pinching and adapting Donald's slogan!

This is why I get frustrated with links to players like Soucek. He has a decent highlights reel but is a very slow, limited footballer. There are lots of Vitinha style players available across Europe and South America (and beyond).

Not all of them are as good as Vitinha by any stretch, but even an inferior model allows you to control possession and play front-foot football (or at least attempt to).

Danny, Make Everton Great Again!

I haven't been to Goodison for many years but it will always be a part of me.

I want to believe again too. Moyes is not the man to make it happen.

My last game was the Arsenal game when I was lucky enough to sit next to Tony A. Right at the back of the Glwadys but still a reasonable view. Before that I was sat in the back row of the lower Glwadys for the FA Cup match v Bournemouth. It was probably the worst seat I have ever experienced at a football match and I saw very little of the play. Romance aside, it's about time we joined the rest of the big clubs in the 21st century.

I don't understand some people saying we'll be playing away for all our games next season? Surely it's 49,000 blues v 3,000 aways that makes the difference, not walking along a new tunnel onto a new patch of grass?

And what the fuck is a TIFO??

Don't forget Fulham on Saturday. See you there.

In 4 days, 20 hours, 34 minutes and 48 seconds I will be in the Eight Bells “getting ready” for a big win for the Blues! See you there!

Nearly relegated, nearly bankrupted, nearly into administration, nearly into the abyss….. yet a Top 10 finish next season wouldn't count as progress?

What?

The utter nonsense that football supporters (including Evertonians) come out with never ceases to amaze.

Chasing the holy grail with a suitcase full of used tenners and a load of bad signings was how Moshiri got us into this mess in the first place. Do we not learn? I'd be happy to see the club learn some lessons and build slowly, thanks very much. A Top 10 finish next season will do me fine.

The rot set in for me when the Fat Controller ran the club… long before Moshiri — his arrival only compounded the incompetence of previous years.

I doubt The Friedkin Group would be happy either, but the team has to be rebuilt for their investment. The foundations for success are not found in mediocrity but getting the right people in to do the job that plans for winning — not a Top 10 finish...

Jimmy, I'd be interested to hear your views on Manchester City, Aston Villa, Newcastle and Nottingham Forest, all of whom have suffered recent multiple relegations.

Don't lower your expectations. That's what the club has been doing for decades.

They won't beat me into accepting 10th as an achievement. Not even 7th.

Let's not try and run before we can walk. We've been bumping along in the Bottom 5 now for nearly a decade, so to jump from that to "Top 10 isn't good enough — we need to be winning things" for next season is to put unnecessary and unrealistic pressure on the manager.

We know as well as we can that, given patience and backing, Moyes will have us competing for European places in the next couple of years. That represents perfectly adequate progression, surely.

The job he has to do is a specialist one. One which suits his particular talents. There's nobody better at making okay players good and good players very good — that's exactly who we need.

What we don't need is an Ancelotti or a Mourinho, who spends all our cash, misjudges the bad shape we are in, and sets us back by getting sacked in 6 months, and the whole mess starts all over again.

Nottm Forest could be having their freak season. They won't finish as high next season.

Man City, Newcastle Utd and Aston Villa have spent £100s of millions of £sss.

If Everton spend £150M this season and have a £220M plus wage bill, then my expectations will change.

Piddling around…

We're Everton, Aren't We?

Why some people are even talking about winning the Premier League shouldn't really surprise me when I think about some of the embarrassing shouts I've read on cup game threads on this website over the last few years.

Liverpool never won the league for 30 years but remained relevant because they still tried to compete and won a few cups.

And it must now be 12 years since Manchester United won the Premier League, but they also remain relevant because they still compete in the fucking cups!!!

In 2004 we finished 4th. 'New dawn' etc. Didn't happen.

Give me a cup win any day.

Aim to win a cup, as Liam and Tony say, and also aim to get into Europe.

Forest will achieve one of those feats next season, and almost managed both. They finished 16th last season.

People who are posting that finishing 10th next season would be progress are correct. That's an indisputable fact.

They're not, as far as I can see, saying that is the extent of their aspirations — they are merely tempering those aspirations with a bit of realism.

Each and every one of us wants to win the treble next season, that doesn't mean that each and every one of us believes we will, or has to believe we will.

We've been shit for some considerable time. I've not loved Everton any less because we've been shit and I wouldn't love them any more if we won the treble.

The improvement we need is "sustainable improvement" and to approach each game where the desire to win overcomes the fear of losing.

I'll be happier with that… not completely happy… but happier.

At the end of this summer, we will probably have a better squad than we do now – but still a squad that is probably no better than around 15 other sides.

It means that next season, our final Premier League position could be around 10th – but that will rely on some overperformance. I suspect that the upper and lower limits will be something like 8th to 14th. I'd like to be wrong – but that seems likely and realistic.

However, if we use the opportunity to bring in players with a view to peaking in a few years, then we could genuinely start to compete in season 2027-28. By this, I mean Champions League qualification and the later stages of cup tournaments on a sustained basis.

That is what I want.

Next season, I don't think that's possible and indeed too much short-termism could seriously harm our medium term chances to achieving something meaningful.

In the meantime, I think we should go very, very hard on the cup tournaments – and try to build a more front-foot style of football. If that means we finish 12th next season – but then 8th and 6th and 5th in subsequent seasons – then that's a bit more like it – and puts us back amongst the big boys for the first time in a very, very long time.

Going all out for the cups should be an absolute given because the pain that going 30 years without winning a trophy brings should definitely make every single Evertonian want to win a trophy, above anything else!

The focus should be on our foundation. That has to be a box-to-box midfielder who has some steel. I think Paul Tran made that point and I agree.

Also, that transfer must happen with an eye to a partnership that will connect well with Ndiaye and possibly Alcaraz. That may exhaust our budget right there, so expectations should be driven by that reality.

If you've ever won something playing football, whether that's as a kid, or Sunday League, or semi pro, its the sheer joy of it that stays with you.

As Everton fans, we have generations who've never felt it. We all mocked Newcastle for celebrating like they'd won the World Cup, but the unfiltered joy of winning is something we've been long denied.

Limit our expectations, peak in 2028, temper those aspirations, don't be short-termist to harm the medium-term (and I am assume we should modulate the medium term to safeguard the long-term). I might try some of these phrases with my CEO when I have my next appraisal.

Honestly gents, reads Tony @67 and and Liam @69 where they explain winning.

I really think the reasons Spurs want rid should be why Everton say No.

When you consistently finish in the lower half, you get a much smaller piece of the pie, and the double whammy is that many better players want to go to higher placed clubs, and so Everton have had to feed off the crumbs.

They have, of course, brought in many deadbeats and crocks who have been a total waste of time.

I am sure that Moyes, who has served a long apprenticeship in the Premier League and elsewhere, is well aware of the dross in the current squad and has formed a shortlist in his mind of some he wants gone.

We all hope that he is in a much better position now, in readiness for next season, with new ownership and a cracking new stadium, to turn this club around.

But he well knows that the fans won't tolerate a start like we had this season under Dyche when Everton conceded 14 in the first 4 games including the debacle at home against Bournemouth which set the tone for the whole season.

If they want to raise the profile of the club, and value, then it's reasonable to think the cup competitions is the way to do it.

It's also reasonable that a group of players can perform/play more than 38 games a season. Across the park, they play 60. Some of ours struggle to do 30 - and less than 15 well...

I haven't checked the figures but, with a big wage subsidy from Levy, I might consider it to make way for some heavy midfield spending. And I would laugh my ass off at Levy if Richarlison scored his share.

Moyes only has to satisfy TFG's short-term objectives and I don't think those will be as ambitious as some on here would wish.

There's generally nothing to play for at Everton unless you count avoiding the drop. So some of our sick notes have been more than happy to get splinters in their collective arses and draw their obscene salaries.

Just my view.

Can't defend?

It's true without Tarkowski (nb: who you'd ‘chuck'), recently we've looked a lot less stable at the back.

But just consider a few stats (coz they can't be argued with).

We're currently 14th and have conceded less goals than all the teams below us.

As for those sides above us, we've conceded the same amount as Man City (currently 3rd) and two less than Newcastle Utd (currently 4th).

Oh and we've conceded less than Villa, Brentford, Brighton, Fulham, Palace and Wolves.

I agree completely that 4 home wins in the final season at Goodison is pitiful, but clearly, as every team above us have scored more (as have the three teams directly below us), the reason for our lack of wins is surely obvious.

Or put it another way, a half-decent goalscorer would almost certainly have had us battling for a place in Europe (especially this season when it seems half the Premier League could qualify for Europe).

For those who want to be excited by the names of any signings, I hope you are disappointed.

Did Brighton or Bournemouth fans dribble out of the corner of their mouth when a player was signed? But did they have a huge grin when that player totally transformed their team and was sold a year later for £100M? I want us to sign that sort of player.

Unknowns (except to Robert Tressell) who will light up the Premier League and be the subject of a bidding war between Man City, Man Utd and Real Madrid 1 year later.

No PSR issues. And 3 years from now we will have a war chest to buy established players as well.

Would I like Richarlison back? He loves the club but is that backwards? Solve a goalscoring problem? He scored less than Calvert-Lewin (I think but can't be bothered to check). No, I want unknowns who will be worth a fortune later.

I do agree with the overall assessment of Bournemouth and Brighton. We don't yet have the transfer team to do their model in my opinion.

I can sort of understand those who say they are being realistic. I understand those who are scarred by having never seen us win anything and are cautious to let themselves believe.

What I can't understand is why we should be afraid and fearful of daring to believe we can win?

I apologise if I am some sort of deluded idiot, but no-one is stopping me thinking we can challenge and win.

It starts on Saturday when we visit Fulham. I, and the other 3,000 are not making the trip to Craven Cottage thinking we will lose. No.

It starts next season when we can be challenging. There is no reason not to believe we can compete and be in the mix for a European spot. It doesn't take 3 years, it can start now.

Sorry to get dramatic. I always go to win. Anything else is submissive and defeatist and doesn't get you anywhere.

On today of all days, I spent time with a number of Chelsea Pensioners. It was humbling and heartwarming. Full of humour, they reminded me, that even when the odds are stacked against you, you can take the fight to the enemy and win.

I'm looking forward to the match this weekend, meeting friends and Evertonians. And winning.

This club is coming back. If we believe it and enjoy the journey, because when it happens, there is no better feeling than watching Everton lift a trophy.

I should perhaps caveat that with the birth of your child and marriage, but they are a close tie.

And yet I recognise that the world of professional football these days, and for yonks before, cares not a jot about fans' feelings and aspirations, yours included.

They just don't care. They're only interested in their personal incomes - end of.

The "chemistry" that Leicester City chanced upon to win the league was truly remarkable but expecting another such lowly club (and for years now everyone but us lot have considered Everton "lowly") to emulate them is like putting money on lightning striking the same place twice within ten years.

Unlikely in the extreme, to put it mildly.

So next season I expect to be again bored by the farrago parading itself as the best football competition on the planet, with six constantly cossetted clubs vying for the top six, six far poorer clubs trying to find the Leicester elixir, six clubs struggling to keep their own crowds awake, and at least two clubs with zero credentials for survival from the first game of the season.

I hope for the best for us - but I contend myself as realistic, not optimistic.

All the best!

I certainly don't want to talk anyone down from getting overly ambitious about Everton. Sorry if it read like that. A steady and sustained sense of belief in the performances as a unit is the window I would have us look through when judging our progress. We may lose a few trying to play proper football, and that should be alright as long as the underlying fundamentals are understood and improving.

Except I was wrong.

Football isn't about also rans, losers, being in the Premier league, competing with the best, pragmatic tactics against the better teams..

Its about winning things. Its about pride and passion, belief, hope and support. Its about being the best you can be. We did the pragmatic for 20 odd years, clung on to the ladder by last day wins, luck, our fans. Watched as we sold the best we had and replaced them with, well, crap.

So here is it folks.. I want to see Everton win and win well, I want to see our new owners make the club successful on and off the pitch. I want to see leaders who will fight tooth and nail to win. Cups first, Europe, god forbids even a title.

Enough of pragmatism. Enough of being stoic and pragmatic. Accept mediocrity and you will have Moyes for years. Build a dynasty of a team, go beyond today.. have the vision and drive to make it happen.. to the owners, are you sheep or a tiger?
Show your face..

Don, I totally get it and I am always clear where you are coming from and you let me run wild with my thoughts. You also contacted me personally when I went through a tough period and I haven't forgotten that.

Dale, for several seasons, it was a fantastic experience going to a match expecting, almost knowing we were going to win. That was installed into me, both following Everton and as a player.

On the subject of atmosphere, like moving house, it might take time to adjust. And it's a two way house. Who inspires who? The players need the supporters, but the supporters need the players.

I won't change my approach to following the blues. After nearly 40 barren years, I respect why some feel as pessimistic as they do. I genuinely only want us to succeed for them.

The match day thread should be up later and the chats have already started for arranging meet ups for tomorrow. @Mark Murphy, I should be alright with my geography!!!!

Conversely I think Moyes would love to win something with us, he’s at the back end of his career, he got a taste of it with West Ham and there is some sentimentality there for Everton. I’m hoping we’ll see stronger than usual line-ups from him going into cup games and make a decent run at one of them. For teams of our current stature, that’s unfortunately about the best we can hope for.

The idea of relegation or mid table acceptance was never in the darkest nightmare of a certain generation of Evertonian. We were one of the elite English clubs. Part of the ‘Big Five’. We were footballing royalty. I remember as a kid being so proud of this. Being an Evertonian in Liverpool felt so good. It was good. It was status.

The notion that players would choose a Chelsea or Man City over us was laughable. These days, how sad that they prefer Brighton and Brentford. The decades have stripped us of that elite status. We have become footballing paupers, grateful for the success and joy of avoiding relegation. This is not who we are. Christine and others rightly keep reminding us of this.

As I said in an earlier post, I believe this is going to change with the new owners. I don’t think for a moment that they are going to hang around waiting for slow and steady progress. And I don’t want them to either.

I want them to be ruthlessly impatient and outrageously ambitious. I want them to recalibrate the expectations and mindsets of Evertonians. I don’t want patient pragmatism. I want top ten to be seen as failure. I want them to show, and for us to experience, ‘Nil satis nisi optimum’ is not an archaic ideal.

Right now. Not in the future.

I am sure David Moyes is determined to win trophies in his tenure with Everton, so fans need to be equally vocal in their expectations for success to the new owners

We had a 30 year case study in expectation reduction and don't need any more pragmatism and tempering ambition.

TFG need to show up, speak up and put up. Where are they?

Judging by what’s happening at Roma, I think you’ll be disappointed. I don’t expect TFG to suddenly throw £200m at the squad, which is what it would take to give us a realistic shout at top 8.

Rome wasn’t built in a day! If slow and steady progress is a 5 year plan with professional and sensible recruitment, that’s all well and good with me.

You cannot eradicate 30 yrs of relative failure with a spending splurge over a couple of transfer windows. Nothing wrong with being positive, but unrealistic expectations will only lead to bigger disappointments down the line.

The club needs a change in culture and approach after the Kenwright and Moshiri years. Change takes time to implement properly. I hope this is what’s happening behind the scenes. We’ve not been run properly for years. Unlike our neighbours - though I hate to say it.

If our income is going up £50m, then it would be £20m on wages and £30m on amortisation charge- over 5 years that's £150m - keeping the P&l flat.

Plus or minus the level of the psr over spend vs the £105m average.

That assumes everything is spent. I would imagine it will be £75-£100m net spend, plus some loans that can be acquired later on. That could look different again if Branthwaite goes.

Somebody has probably profiled our amortisation charge, but it should be down now considering we've spent bugger all recently.

Roma are under uefa sanctions for over soend, so it's not clear how that curtains the friedkins ambitions. It's very easy to say they're not ambitious, but not really understand what they can and can't do...

I choose those words carefully. The right investment. Often it is about judging improvement and progress through qualitative rather than quantitive metrics.

Us mortals don't know how much the club will be prepared or allowed to spend. We'll have to wait and see.

I was with my cousin yesterday. He has supported Chelsea all his life. They were up and down like a yo-yo throughout our time. Likewise, Villa, Newcastle and Manchester City. Look at what Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford have been through to get where they are now.

For some it took years, but with the platform Everton have and with sensible investment, it can happen relatively quicker.

Success builds success. Aim for the jugular and win a trophy. Don't hold back with fear of trying.

This won’t be popular but that is how the RS approached it.

They had already showed big club ambition in focussing investment on attacking players (some unproven) and then professionalised it.

They recognised that rich though they can’t match the financial resources of 3 (at least other clubs). So they have to figure out how to outperform those clubs.

They got Klopp to buy into data driven and academy level recruitment which has worked extremely well for them (both in terms of squad quality and generating funds though youth player trading).

In Klopps first season they finished 8th as part of the rebuild but it has set them up for the future.

Ambition is great - but unless you have a plan aa to how you’re going to deliver then it’s all just an illusion.

This is especially the case if you start the summer window with financial constraints and a first team squad of about 13 players - quite a few of whom aren’t very good.

Ambition does matter and has been a problem. But so too has sustained periods of utter incompetence and consequent lack of money.

And can they sustain this next season and beyond?

Or will we see Nuno (who was rubbish at Spurs) and Forest have a glass ceiling?

Seems to me they will have to pick up a good handful of high quality players to kick on from here. Can they do it?

It is said that Villa need to sell Watkins by 30th June to hit psr numbers. And that illustrates just how hard it is to move forward. Financial constraints are forcing them to sell their best player despite being backed by money.

Remind me, how is this stopping clubs from going bust again?

"One of the most interesting subplots is the future of assistant Davide Ancelotti.

The younger Ancelotti has built a formidable reputation alongside his father, from PSG to Bayern Munich, Napoli, Everton, and now Real.

But with his profile higher than ever, and interest from top European clubs growing, this will be the moment he sets out on his own.

Davide has always dreamed of becoming a head coach. That decision, like many around the Madrid bench right now, remains pending – but imminent."

He has the pedigree, but stepping out from under his father's coat means he has to start somewhere he can build a reputation with an ambitious club. I wonder who?

"Now here is a thought"

A horrible one though!

One player would not have made anywhere near that much difference. Even "a half-decent goalscorer."

Our strikers, mediocre though they may be, didn't miss that many chances. They weren't provided them.

A half-decent attack puts us in contention. But a single player up top barely moves the needle.

That got me thinking, terrible I know, but Roma have qualified for European competitions for the last 10 seasons, mostly at Europa league or conference levels but also Champions Leage.
Given our own ambitions for Europe what happens if we both qualify for the same competition? Given that Roma have been far more successful in qualifying, they would surely have preference which could mean that despite our qualification we would not be able to play in the same competition.
Nice problem to have I hear you say, but if one of our ambitions is Europe, it's a possible spanner in the works. Qualifying may not be enough..

You can work around it.