LCC leader Warren Bradley, Labour leader in Liverpool Joe Anderson, and a represenative from the Bestway group sat on the panel with the guys from KEIOC. Right from the off, Warren Bradley tore in to Kenwright and Wyness regarding the move to Kirkby. Bradley made comments such as the club is not for sale regardless of what Kenwright is telling you; the club refuse to sit down with LCC and discuss alternative sites for relocation; the club is refusing even to send out a worthwhile reply to any correspondence.
Apart from the Loop site, the LLC have offered Everton FC sites on Edge Lane and Long Lane in Liverpool but the club are not interested. Both plots of land are owned by the LCC and would qualify for funding from both the NWDC and European money which is flooding in to Liverpool at present. The "24/7 seeking investment" quote from Kenwright was met with howls of derision from both the crowd and the panel. Not so, said Bradley, Kenwright doesnt want to sell.
Bradley and Anderson, who are both season ticket holders at Everton, made the comment that this Kirkby deal was a way for Kieth Wyness to fill his pockets before he does a moonlight flit back to were he came from and I agree with them.
The Bestway guy said that the Loop site was deliverable; the HKO group, who are world leaders in stadium building, had conducted the survey and have said a 60,000 seater stadium is possible on that site. Why would they lie? That's what Kenwright and Wyness have been calling the Bestway group, said one of the crowd; they have been calling you liars. He was right as well.
Joe Anderson said the problem with the Loop site was not the size or location but the fact that no other form of development was possible for Bestway to benefit from the site. Anderson went on to say that other sites in Liverpool can be offered to Bestway to accomodate them but still the club refuse to sit down and disscuss the matter.
Bradley and Anderson said they are both now trying to get a meeting on with the club (Wyness has refused so far) and they are hopeful Kenwright will agree some time next week.
The land in Knowsley that Tescos and Everton are hoping to build the stadium and supermarket on doesn't actually belong to Knowlsey Bourough Council and is in fact still owned bt LCC so any major development will be dragged through the courts in order to prevent it.
The Liverpool Echo came in for some stick with Warren Bradley claiming that they are refusing to publish any articles he has sent in to them opposing the Kirkby move. Bradley and Anderson then said they are off down to Old Hall Street this week to get some answers.
Bradley was asked about the Reds building on Stanley Park to which he replied, "It wouldn't have happened had I been the council leader at the time." He then went on to criticize the Everton Board over the Kings Dock affair and said they had wasted our golden chance and they can't be trusted on a deal of this magnitude.
In the end it was quite obvious from what Bradley and Anderson were saying that both Kenwright and Wyness have been misleading the fans on all the major issues concerning this move. They both stand to make a packet out of this deal and it's the mug fans who will be left with a cheap and nasty half-empty stadium when it's all over. Tesco are giving £50k only towards this deal so what's that going to buy us in Stadium terms?
After the meeting finished, I went on a pub crawl around town and ended up in the Queens in Huyton. David Nugent was in there with his bird. He is against the Kirkby move. Throughout the day and the night I didn't manage to find a sinle Evertonian who voted Yes for this move or who actually wants it. WTF IS GOING ON?
36,000 ballot papers sent out and only 15,000 returned with ticks in the Yes box. Is that really a majority? Is that really enough to of a mandate to throw away our history and heritage?
We are leaving the city wide open for the Reds to become bigger and stronger and that's what every one of them is saying when you are out and about in this city. Moving to Kirkby will have a far bigger effect on our club than just playing in a new ground and that's a fact.
Saying that, this K-town move is no way a done deal and from what I witnessed yesterday the fight is only just beginning. Kenwright has got a real battle on his hands here and the Blue Army won't be pushed around as easily as he thinks.
KEIOC ? its what all real Evertonians want and I hope we get our wish. Kenwright, Wyness and Terry Tesco you can all do one ? We are staying put!
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1 Posted 09/09/2007 at 17:39:44
2 Posted 09/09/2007 at 17:49:08
People did vote Yes, a majority of these returning ballots, and they were given some very good reasons to vote Yes, as Neil Pearse and others have very clearly stated on these pages. The decision has been charatcterized as voting with the head or with the heart. That is, I think, disingenuous: it is (and has always been) a matter of faith, trust and belief.
If you believed what our venerable custodians our told us, then you were duty-bound to vote Yes. Tony calls the Yes voters "mugs" for believing; he posts up an alternate projection of the future that he is (of course) 100% convinced will come to pass... but again, it is a question of faith, trust and belief on the No side. Do you believe Tony’s portents of doom?
Ultimately it’s a business decision and many convinced themselves of the logic one way or the other, but at the end of the day, it’s really about what you BELIEVE, and that is why it’s so hard for either side, Yes or No, to convince the other through reasonaed discussion that theirs is the true message. And that is why it so often degenerates into slanging and abuse.
3 Posted 09/09/2007 at 17:54:53
4 Posted 09/09/2007 at 17:49:00
Finally did Cllr Anderson spell out why he was bitterly opposed to the King?s Dock scheme? Because he most certainly was and was always being quoted in the Echo to that effect - does he regret that stance now?
And not being able to find ANYONE who voted ?yes?? ? I think Mr Marsh should get out more because there?s thousands of us both inside and outside the city, as the democratic ballot prooved.
5 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:07:15
I’m not saying your wrong I’m just wondering out loud.
Also the more Bradley opens his mouth the more I don’t like him, I find it strange that you agree with everything he says and disagree with everything coming out of EFC. Personally I’d treat both sides with equal scepticism.
6 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:04:42
7 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:19:32
8 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:21:07
Wyness makes money (massive money) through bonuses. That is a documented fact. He also makes money through side deals he is allowed to pursue, even though for the rest of the world, these would be considered serious conflicts of interest. Under the Everton operating model, they are not.
And, if you know your history (sorry!) LCC actually bought up almost all of the land that is now Kirkby/Knowsley, back in the 1940s, as overspill for the new town. It should not be at all surprising that LCC still has substantial land holdings within the borough of Knowsley.
9 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:26:29
10 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:23:11
I am a real Evertonian and a realist unlike yourself. we are being knocked over by people giving us money to build a new ground? MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.... let me think: "Tesco" the only name in the frame. We are skint and will always be skint, while so called Evertonian like you are holding back our progress. Speak for yourself not for me I voted yes and so did a lot of "REAL EVERTONIANS"
11 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:20:30
12 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:27:09
13 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:33:41
14 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:36:55
However, I’m familiar with the loop site and can’t for the life of me figure out how you will get a 60,000 seat stadium squeezed into that area - it would have to be like the tardis.
Also, I wouldn’t trust Bradley as far as I could throw him.
15 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:24:56
So, for a moment, let’s assume the club’s leaders are liars. On the other hand, Warren Bradley and Joe Anderson are politicians, aren’t they? Sincerity is not a core value in their profession to put it mildly.
So I find it somewhat strange and in a way funny, when somebody takes anything from two politicians without a single pinch of salt. (Just an example: if Mr. Bradley wanted his articles published so badly why didn’t he post them here or the KEIOC site? It’s surely not the same level of publicity as the Echo but more than zero.)
All we know for sure is something’s rotten and it stinks to high heaven. It’s simple to say that one side is lying and the other one isn’t. As Michael pointed out, this is not head or heart. Both sides are pulling emotional things. They both present us with fearsome visions about our club being utterly destroyed. And when it comes to that, you have to begin to suspect this is because the figures don’t add up. If there was a simple and logical argument backed up with hard facts that could convince all fans’ head, why would they bother with touchy-feely stuff?
My conclusion is the KEIOC should keep on working but please don’t believe everything you’re told just because that’s what you want to hear. Finding out the exact situation before the battle is the first rule of warfare of any kind.
16 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:43:03
Well i managed to stomach about 10 minutes of Warren Bradleys unsubstatiated tripe..and not wanting to be trampled on or threatened to for daring to question the "panel" like some others were ..I decided to go home and watch the racing..
"36,000 ballot papers sent out and only 15,000 returned with ticks in the Yes box. Is that really a majority? "
A little simple arithmatic says that less than a 1/3 voted NO..
So Im gonna stick my neck out and say that thats a majority..
But as always...as on Saturday..lets not let the facts get in the way..blah blah.etc etc
17 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:53:34
18 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:46:30
ps i lost my front row seat to corporate seats due to wyness and got moved into the gods by the fat b. and half the time the seats are empty. I also told Wynesses oppo Harvey Smith what I thought of the fathead. Problem is Bradley himself is as untrustworthy as BK and KW. I dont normally like Marsh but he has the clubs fans at heart i suppose.
19 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:39:39
"once again HOK is mentioned and once again I?ll repeat they?ve NEVER said anything about the loop and have never issued an 18 page report"
First of all, Bestway, LCC and Trevor Skempton the local press have all talked about the HOK report in various articles. Their abridged version was published and has appeared all over the place..... so how can you keep saying HOK have NEVER said anything about the Loop? No-one else(not even the club) is contending this fact. It would seem that your desperation to put people down regardless of facts knows no bounds.
20 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:45:57
Chris Roberts, what do you find far-fetched mate? I am only repeating what I heard at the meeting. I am sure there are others out there who can verify this so please don't call me a liar.
Say what you like about Warren Bradley but at least the man is fighting for the club's future. He doesn't have to get involved in this mess but gives up his own time to try and help.
As for the move itself, why do the Yes voters keep saying things like its only 4 miles away from Goodison or Kirkby is part of Liverpool? That's not the issue we are dealing with. Most No voters realise that moving farther away fron the city center is suicide especially if it's new revenue streams we are after. I would have the same reservations about going to Speke and that's in Liverpool. We need to get nearer to town ? not farther away. It's common sense. Theres more chance of picking up extra support if we are right next to all the amenities of the city center... just think aboutit: Kirkby town or Liverpool city ? which would make for a more pleasant day out for the corporates and the tourists?
21 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:06:04
22 Posted 09/09/2007 at 18:59:49
1. Jumping into bed with Tesco
2. Try to keep our club in the city that we belong.
Mr Bradley may at times snap at the Everton media machine, I realy do believe though we do not need to get into a war of words with Everton. As a pressure group KEIOC need to produce solid facts and let the Evertonians countrywide see these facts, lets be the biger person in this fight. Once the facts are produced and circulated people will start to rethink and hopefully we will start to turn the heads of our yes voters, once this is done Everton will have to stand up and pay attention. We need to remember that KEIOC are doing a fantastic job and will become stronger as time goes on, a clear mandate and issuing of clear facts will rock the Everton media machine.
Keep the good work up, your time will come and your fight will become a major embaressment to Everton.
23 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:17:50
24 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:20:38
25 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:36:32
26 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:36:07
2 words - Wyness Bonus
It is also worth adding that if we end up in Kirkby BK will have something far more valuable (on paper) to sell if he so chooses.
There is a conflict of interest here.
27 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:44:17
28 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:47:36
Anyway, what struck me most about this report was, if it is accurate, how utterly broken the relationship is between Everton FC and the LCC. I know nowhere near enough to accurately apportion blame, but it seems to me that is probably now impossible for the two sides to work effectively together.
Nobody comes out of this well. If Wyness keeps simply ignoring Bradley that seems both unprofessional and stupid. On the other hand, if Bradley’s strategy is to directly call Wyness an incompetent liar who is only in this for himself, then he is an idiot if he is surprised that Wyness is not then keen to meet him.
It is more than a shame that Everton’s future is being influenced by what appears to be a schoolyard squabble.
As is well known, I am not at all convinced that any viable fundable timely options exist outside Kirkby. But I’d rather that this whole matter wasn’t influenced by this childish spat.
29 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:44:46
30 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:48:54
One point I would like to clarify is that you make out as if ther was lots of drunks at the meeting. There was one idiot who hadnt been home from the night before and was quickly asked to leave. Also as for the organisation of the meeting, it wasnt the best I agree, but I am fed up of people moaning about minor details of what KEIOC are trying to do. These lads are fighting our corner and need ALL the help they can get from Every Evertonian who supports the campaign. So come on fellas get involved and support KEIOC and lets show this board up for what they realy are.
31 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:38:18
I also note that the chances of reconciliation between Bradley and Wyness on your account is zero.
Pity. Both men should be bigger. And as I thought that Wyness was wrong to publish his disparaging open letter, I think Bradley is wrong to use his position in such a way.
I think Bradley needs to realise quickly that the club actually doesn’t need to talk to anyone in Liverpool.
Finally, what’s all this nonsense about REAL Evertonians? Some KEIOC adherants seem to be remnants of Militant Tendancy / Socialist Workers Party - and I thought Hatton had long disappeared from the scene.
Shame for sure.
32 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:10:17
Bradley needs to get involved because it is appalingly embarrasing to him and his party that one of the city’s football teams has been so badly served by his body the LCC that they are running into the arms of another council. This is a political disaster for him - and hence, as it appears, he is coming out all guns blazing (making himself look a bit of a fool in my opinion).
Bradley may still be talking some truth. But saintlike and disinterested he certainly is not. It’s safe to assume that all those in public positions have some axe to grind at this stage.
33 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:16:35
34 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:15:01
Both Bradley and Joe Anderson are confident that funding will be available for the regeneration of the Loop and Aintree if job creation was a key part of the development. They also confirmed that there is land around the Loop owned by LCC and other vacant lots which would would ?enhance? the development site footprint.
Just to contradict Tony slightly, the Edge Lane site is actually owned by an Asian businessman based in the Isle of Man and he is looking for the right development for that site.
Confirming Tony?s comments on the 18-page report from HOK, Trevor Skempton, architect and consultant on the Paradise Project, and Ian the rep from Bestway, who are spending their own money on the various studies and wouldn?t do so if they felt this was a total waste of time, both confirmed the existence of this document but said that the document was mainly a technical document and therefore deemed unsuitable for publication to the public domain. HOK are a very reputable company who I am sure would contradict the claims of these people if untrue. And before anyone criticises/disbelieves this then please let them tell me where the documentation can be found relating to the Kirkby deal.
I find it highly amusing that people criticise no voters and ask how they can believe Bradley etc. without question and make comments about not letting facts get in the way but have gladly done so themselves with BK and KW even though the Kirkby ?facts? have changed repeatedly since the first announcement. Unlike EFC, the info coming from LCC/Bestway about the Loop is, if nothing else, consistent.
If I was 100% confident I had the ?Deal of the Century? I?d be saying ?Here it is, we?ll work with you for a set period of time and challenge you to match it or even better it?. If they can?t, they can?t but if they could then you really would have a win, win, win situation. The club gets what it wants, the city does, and most importantly the fans can be reunited. Isn?t that last ?win? alone worth a little flexibility from the club?
35 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:22:52
there’s a certain irony in that but i can’t be arsed pointing it out.
36 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:26:09
37 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:30:06
Great post Tony Marsh, well done.
38 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:05:44
You’re wasting your time mate!There is just no way that the naysayers will be moved...and good luck to ’em, that’s their right. My missus and I spent months arguing out this issue and while most of the naysayers at least remained civil many did not and the insults and accusations of self-interest flowed. If only we had known the MAJORITY agreed with us anyway we could have saved ourselves an awful lot of hassle!
And it is a MAJORITY. Abstaining or not being bothered to vote for whatever reason is perfectly legitimate in Democracy !We knew that before the vote and we know it now.
Finally, I VOTED YES. I HAVE ALSO BEEN A REAL EVERTONIAN FOR 52 YEARS. IT’S ABOUT TIME THAT SOME ON THIS WEBSITE REFRAINED FROM PRESUMING OR STATING THAT ANYBODY WHO DOES NOT AGREE WITH THEM IS NOT A REAL EVERTONIAN AND SOME KIND OF RENEGADE.MAKE A NOTE OF MY NAME. I’M HERE TO BE COUNTED. I’M NOT HIDING!
39 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:25:47
I know it would be the hardest thing in the world to say you?re not going to continue going to the match (and to really mean it and follow it through) but if there were say 5,000 plus fans who, through some sort of organised letter, signed-up and presented the letter to the Board making it clear that we are not renewing next year because of Kirkby, they would have to take notice.
In the meantime, the club needs to explore ALL possible alternatives to Kirkby. I believe it?s a matter of life and death for this club, so drastic action is needed.
40 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:32:35
Thanks for confirmation of that, as I said Knowsley will have these ’hand-over’ documents too and they (and Tesco) will have checked land ownership issues at the outset.
By the way some of us would love to see that fabled ’18 page HOK report’ but are continually baffled why it’s STILL not linked anywhere - just a pdf file would do. I don’t care if it’s too ’technical’ i’d still love to see it despite it being ’unsuitable for publication into the public domain’ and not just to see if it actually exists.
41 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:44:54
42 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:35:53
First of all, and I know I am repeating myself here from earlier posts, in most other cases bidders have publicly emerged without being ’invited in’ or ’found’ by the current owner. Everton FC is not exactly a secret in the world of sport. Often in fact these new bidders are not wanted by the current owners. But bid they do, and often get what they want.
So I just don’t buy the argument that, with all these bidders for Premiership clubs flying around, Bill has somehow ’stopped’ any of them from coming forward. Not a hint of any in the press. I just don’t see how he could have done, even if he wanted to.
The really interesting question is why no-one has tried to buy Everton. I think one of the issues is that the cost - given that a buyer would have to fund a new stadium - has looked too steep. I noted that Terry Leahy said that new investment could well emerge post the Kirkby deal. Makes a lot of sense. Of course a super rich Abramovich-type wouldn’t care, and could bid now. But there aren’t many of those around!
43 Posted 09/09/2007 at 19:23:03
I might be wrong here but are we not the only club in the world who have give the fans a democratic vote on this (and for all those people who didn?t vote well that is their choice and nothing to do with anybody else) and what do the Board get for that? Ripped apart, crooks, fat lazy bastards to name but a few. Well I find this a bit unjustified.
Five years ago we were the laughing stock of the Premier League, relegation fight every season, a chairman (Johnson for those of you who choose to forget) who nearly took us to the brink of bankruptcy, a team of fucking pensioners, we was a joke. Kenwright might not be everyone?s cup of tea but, we have qualified for Europe twice, our debts have been more than halved, we have twice broken our transfer record, we have one of the best young managers in the game and people now look at us as not a relegation basket case but a top-six decent side. Doesn?t the Board take some credit or is that to much to ask for judging by some of these comments?
I will say this to every Everton fan: if you voted NO well that?s your choice and you're fully justified in your opinion but please stop making people who decided to vote YES into some scab who doesn?t give a fuck about the club! People do care just as much as the people who voted No, but they just see things slightly different from you. My old fella stood on a picket line for 2 years, he thought he was right and every other person who just wanted to get on with their lives and move on was scabs and sell-outs... and to be honest that?s the way things are going over this issue. It really is a shame though we are all Evertonians but eventually we will have to swallow our pride and accept that the ones who did vote voted Yes.
44 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:53:05
45 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:50:34
I just dont fancy watching Everton matches in Knowsley.By the way Dave Huyton is split between 2 councils.Knowsley Council which covers the L36 areas of Huyton
46 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:01:33
47 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:38:32
Apart from the obvious self-contradiction, please don’t suggest that those who voted yes are somehow not the people.
I’m sick with people labeling themselves true blues and all kinds of bullshit. If you think BK and KW are not deliberately seek their own personal benefit over the club’s, that’s ok. But is there anybody really thinking that those who voted yes did the same? If there is, we’re in really big trouble.
48 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:02:01
49 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:57:20
"KEIOC - Its what REAL Evertonians want" Tony Marsh.
"Socialism is the only answer" Marxist
No voters (those who actally were the minority in the real vote - are the realist, yes voters (those who were the majority) are deluded so it would seem.
Workers are fooled by the capitalist - only Marxist have the real answer.
Different context, same simplistic faschist view.
Thank god, only some no voters hold this nonsense view that they are the real Evertonians.
What am I, a plastic doll?
So long as KEIOC supporters hold such faschist views, while I’ll admire their work, I won’t go anywhere near them.
All I can say is thank God that KEIOC in its publicity welcomed yes, and no voters to its meetings. Tony would do well to remember that when his next pub crawl ends up in Huyton (Oh, the irony).
50 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:09:10
But outsourcing everything you can is pretty common business practice these days, and does not necessarily signal a badly run company. If it does, most of British business is now badly run!
The ideas are basically that you don’t want to tie up your capital in ’non-core’ parts of your business (e.g. running cafes), and that other specialists are usually better at running many things than you are yourself.
The criticisms I would have is that the club has not done a good job in a number of important cases (come on down, JJB!) in effectively managing those to whom it’s outsourced things.
51 Posted 09/09/2007 at 20:56:21
It wouldn?t matter if we were champions the Kirkby move would be extremely controversial regardless because it?s about whether it?s the right move for the long-term future, not the past.
52 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:07:40
53 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:34:22
54 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:43:55
I’ve also heard whispers from within the council about there being absolutely zero chance of any ’loop’ site getting planning permission for anything remotely like a 50-60,000 stadium - not just because of its tiny size and close location to a busy and important entrance to the city centre and to the tunnel. What’s more the club actually KNOW THIS hence their dismissive attitude to any suggestion of it - which just serves to irritate and frustrate some of the ’no’ voters even more.
55 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:42:33
As a yes voter and a real evertonian I well remember the early 80s when i was part of record low post war crowds of 14-15k. Those crowds were not all no voters and so I take with a pinch of salt all this bollocks about the mythical Goodison matchday experience. You follow the team - end of story
56 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:56:24
57 Posted 09/09/2007 at 21:49:04
58 Posted 09/09/2007 at 22:07:18
That request is seconded, almost every article by the likes of Tony Marsh (super duper blue) and the other recent article by another super duper uber blue Ian Macdonald either explicitly or (more likely) sneakily makes the point about some blues being ’real’ evertonians - It’s quite funny actually.
59 Posted 09/09/2007 at 22:10:38
I’ve been called "pompous", "immature" and "a cretin" amongst other things recently. No real problem with these! But, like many, being called ’not a real Evertonian’ makes my blood boil. What the fuck are all the unreal Evertonians doing posting on this site for God’s sake?
Agree with Sean. Passion, yes. Disagreement, yes. Calling into question one’s Evertonian credentials - let’s all stop it.
60 Posted 09/09/2007 at 22:10:12
Socalled EVERTONIANs ipping the sh****t out of each othe with false promises, propaganda, nice words, BK & KW, KEIOC etc etc etc............................
No money,crap manager, shit players........
Hitler was an innocent manufacture of society and the media is to blame. KEIOC is a tool manufactured out of businesses around Walto that fear losing trade run by REDSHITE. Move on, we are EVERTON and willl be EVERTON where ever we play.
Narrow minds us YES voters maybe but I for one have never hidden from the fact that short term (20 years) this is a good move and to shun it for our last 20 years is a joke.
One FA Cup win were we scraped a win does not justify balancing ur future.
Money is being spent all over the English game including foreign investment in lower league clubs that should never have a hope of being in the PREMIERSHIP but with the nvestment will be their in 5 years time. Are you as true blues as we fight to stave relegation going to say ’but we are EVERTON and belong their’ ? Get a life, it’s business, speculate to accumulate. KW is their to produce and whilst extremely well paid is slowly producing. BK as previously stated by me has steadied the ship and deserves a few quid for his efforts...
Just to justify my mere existence as an Evertonian I am 43, born of a red and live in a famils of reds, love EVERTON for being EVERTON and have followed them all around the world (any tax man reading I have receipts) and eventually when the good Lord says it’s my day will pass on all my memorabilia to the club, for I am a TRUE BLUE without a t-shirt or an attitude but just alove for my club.
Please stop tearing the club apart, got a business, move it, KEIOC & LCC - PROVE IT, BESTWAY - WHO????
Support your club, and enjoy the game.
FOR THAT IS ALL IT IS - A GAME - HOWEVE PAINFUL IT MAY BE SUPPORTING THE GREATEST TEAM EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB , be it Kirkby, the loop ,Speke.
61 Posted 09/09/2007 at 22:34:54
I agree with everything you say, I also believe everything Warren Bradley says because I have no faith in Wyness at all. And regardless of how much Tesco Terry says he loves Everton, he simply wants to benefit Tesco and himself, he’s a businessman after all.
Up the blues, let’s stay in Liverpool lads and I hope we beat United!
62 Posted 09/09/2007 at 22:45:32
63 Posted 09/09/2007 at 22:55:11
64 Posted 09/09/2007 at 22:40:44
65 Posted 09/09/2007 at 23:19:02
"Move on, we are EVERTON and willl be EVERTON where ever we play."
Should we just move to Dublin then? Probably get a decent crowd there.
What absolute nonsense.
66 Posted 10/09/2007 at 00:22:17
You stated that Bradley is here as a concerned Evertonian & you hope he can ?open a few doors?.
Mate - here?s hoping you?re right!
Personally, whilst i think there?s an element of concerned blue, there?s a majority of opportunist politician in him.
If he can find us a ripping deal to keep the club close to our roots, then i don?t care how mercenary he is - all i?m saying is don?t trust him with all your heart & soul, Tony.
67 Posted 10/09/2007 at 01:33:03
68 Posted 10/09/2007 at 07:58:27
69 Posted 10/09/2007 at 08:01:07
70 Posted 10/09/2007 at 09:04:11
71 Posted 10/09/2007 at 08:36:31
1) Do you think a small town, with the inferstruture of a small town, is a really good place to build a large stadium,do you think the massive logistical problems this will cause is a good thing, and going the match should be some sort of endurance test.
2) Do you think all the maths adds up nicely, for example naming rights 25m. Considering Arsenal got 30m over ten years from a airline for a massive iconic stadium, in the capital city with one of the biggest airports in the world. Cant see Sayers coming up with that! 15m for Goodison seems very optomistic as well, as the would be a high cost in ripping the place down, and its hardly a prime real estate area.
3) Do you think the is any danger that that are identity and fanbase will slowly erode, and that the red pr machine, will take full advantage of the one club one city situation.
72 Posted 10/09/2007 at 09:35:48
73 Posted 10/09/2007 at 09:44:23
74 Posted 10/09/2007 at 09:31:08
?One thing I do know and this is from some well placed people in the council and the planning office, there is no feasible alternative, either financial, no planning feasibility studies have been carried out on other sites,"
Hold on a minute, you have previously said that the club have assessed all these sites in their search for an alternative over many years, so surely that would involve feasibility studies, or do you now accept that the club have never properly looked at this and therefore have lied to us?
"I have email from a senior planning officer (who happens to be a Everton Season ticket holder and is against the move in principal) he states very clear that the site by Scotland road would never receive planning permission, he quotes various planning polices that would prevent a 60 000 public stadium being developed on this land?."
Then post it up here, you have it in your possession so let us all see it. Name the planning officer. I’m sure the head planning officer (who is also a blue) and all his staff currently working on the Loop site would be interested to hear his input, and to stop them wasting any more time/money.
"I?ve also heard whispers from within the council about there being absolutely zero chance of any ?loop? site getting planning permission for anything remotely like a 50-60,000 stadium -"
Do me favour..... I’ve heard whispers?! Honestly, that is laughable. How come you have heard whispers yet you didn’t see HOK’s outline report that appeared everywhere? Some people have become that entrenched here that they are saying almost anything to support their argument. It clouds the real issues, and eventually via chinese "whispers" completely distorts the facts.
75 Posted 10/09/2007 at 10:05:15
That’s the problem, mate. Never ever believe anything just because you don’t trust the opposite side.
76 Posted 10/09/2007 at 09:58:23
People have been struggling to even get the club to talk to Bestway who are worth considerably more than Everton Football club. Please don’t forget, these are only ordinary people working in their spare time to campaign against the Kirkby option. They haven’t the resources, experience nor time to generate everything in fine detail. Conversely, the club and Tesco have had over 18 months, with many people working full time, and yet we still haven’t seen a full breakdown..... and final cost to the club. Neither have we seen the much vaunted transport assessment which was started over a year ago. The Bestway people will provide everything even given a fraction of the time given to Tesco, but they will need more than a few weeks.
77 Posted 10/09/2007 at 10:19:26
KB gets his bonus for delivering a stadium move and slinks off back to where he came from.
Tesco gets it’s new mega-store while giving no real money to Everton. They can’t, they won’t and they haven’t given us any cash.
Tesco developers will build a new store/stadium and get paid as usual, making a few percent on the deal.
The highly paid players will drive their expensive cars to a new car park on match day and not really care that we’ve moved. Why should they?
David Moyes MAY get more dosh (’up to £10m’) IF we sell more bums on seats or IF we sell more corporate boxes (in Kirkby!), which MIGHT help us compete with the ’big four’.
Interestingly, the fact that the RS are allowed to build on Stanley Park and we’re not amounts to unlawful state aid, surely? We are both competing businesses after all...
78 Posted 10/09/2007 at 10:46:33
Keep Everton Near Our Pubs!!
79 Posted 10/09/2007 at 10:46:34
Answer me this,
Why hasn’t a rough costing been allocated to the proposal for the loop so we can compare the two?
It seems to me that everyone against the move are willing to say other developments are an option but are only willing to put half a story across.
Its fine saying the loop can accomodate a stadium, but at what costs? Who will be paying for any other development?
Bradley has already said he is not willing to match Tescos funding. So where does that leave us then?
I really cannot believe people hang on the tripe that comes from Bradleys mouth. Yes I agree that Billy and Keith are not perfect and tell a few porkies, but a politician please come on.
I will continue to support the move until a proposal showing a cost and viability.
80 Posted 10/09/2007 at 10:54:58
I find it strange you can challenge what i’ve heard yet see no irony in the fact you believe 100% in some mythical 18 page report that allegedly HOK have had some input in.
Maybe in future we should stick to the factoids of the situation, factoids that EVERYONE can see with their own two eyes, the fact that 60% of voting blues voted for Kirkby, 40% of voting blues voted against and 11,000 voters couldn’t give a hoot/fig where we play.
81 Posted 10/09/2007 at 11:13:04
To my mind, I don’t know *if* The Loop (or anywhere else) is deliverable. I just know I don’t want to move to Kirkby. That’s a different thing and should be the FIRST thing that people concentrate on.
I hope when you drive back at the end of the motorway and you see:
"WELCOME TO LIVERPOOL - HOME OF LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB" you’ll realise.
82 Posted 10/09/2007 at 10:47:34
If LCC has been working so hard for us then WHY were no proposals presented to Everton before the Everton, Knowlsey, Tesco deal?
There is no more funding from the EU, the freey termional will be the last bit of major funding, although there will be smaller ammonts available just as there are to every city in the EU with who we would have to compete.
Kirkby is the only plan that we have, all the KOIC (all 150 who were at the meeting, not exactly a cast of thousands!!) can do is bleat, moan and insult
I have sympathy with those who voted no, and I respect their opinion, I disagree with them.
83 Posted 10/09/2007 at 11:22:06
To be fair to them they did say beforehand it was a meeting for ’no’ voters. I didn’t attend because I don’t think my ’I voted yes’ shirt I was wearing that day would not be appreciated!
Jon Gard - That’s your view but my view is contrary to that, for me Kirkby is as scouse as anywhere and IS Liverpool, others feel differently but we’ve had the vote now and we were all well aware of the issues surrounding the location, I don’t think there’s any need to go over very old ground time and time again.
84 Posted 10/09/2007 at 11:43:56
"Niel,Warren Bradley made it clear yesterday that he was at the meeting as a concerned Evertonian who has been a season ticket holder a lot longer than he has been on the council.What you are saying is a man in a certain type of employment cant have any passion about his football club which is nonesense.If Bradley can pull a few strings and open a few doors because of his position then good on him I say."
However, how does the same not apply to Kenwright or Leahy? They are fans of the club and surely they have the clubs best interests at heart so why does that make them any different to Bradley?
You also said,
"Gerrad Madden just to clarify mate Bradley and Anderson both said that the land in question BELONGS to LLC which means they own it.There is a covenant in place which must be lifted in order for building on said to begin.That means court appeals etc.Thats what they said so I believe it.Why lie and make themselves look silly? "
So what you are saying is you would believe Bradley’s words over that of Kenwright? If you believe Warren Bradley word for word then you are a bigger mug than I took you for.
85 Posted 10/09/2007 at 11:52:57
86 Posted 10/09/2007 at 11:41:45
Regarding Tom H.accusations you are a plant. It is looking more and more obvious. You keep repeating the same tripe. Name names regarding your whispers. We can all say we heard something. No voters on this site do not seem to be afraid of naming there sources.
Re. Saturday, I would have loved to have gone along but something more important turned up. Like a lot of other people, I thought something a bit more concrete (sic)would have come out . A campaign to stay in the city which I support, will eventually have to come up with counter proposals. Even if it means a public offer for EFC.
87 Posted 10/09/2007 at 12:30:19
88 Posted 10/09/2007 at 12:47:55
There is another misconception in that KMBC are passing over ’worthless land’ to the Kirkby project, when in reality the land has a value in the millions a (FOI application would put this in the public domain).
The problem in this is the use of KEIOC, which places any anti minded person as not wanting to go on geographical reasons alone, that aside, the entire financing of the project doesn’t stand up to scrutiny and all projections are on best case scenario income. What if the best case doesn’t happen? Tesco have a back up plan at project Jennifer, where as both KMBC and EFC do not have a plan B. Not exactly rocket science, people absorbed by the K project seem to have grabbed a poisoned chalice solely because it was the only chalice to drink from.
89 Posted 10/09/2007 at 13:28:24
90 Posted 10/09/2007 at 13:37:12
I was born and bred in the Walton area, my dad’s family were all born in Millman Road and surounds and quite a few still do live there, but that walk to Goodison is now an embarasement, dodging dog shite gobby girls in pyjamas and stupid yobs hurling abuse, stop delaying the move, the majority have voted lets move on.
91 Posted 10/09/2007 at 13:39:07
92 Posted 10/09/2007 at 13:59:46
You obviously have a particular hatred of Bill Kenwright and without a shred of evidence, consistently call him a liar.
You say he lied about Kings Dock. No he didn’t. He just didn’t come up with the money.
You say he lied about bidding for Owen. No evidence on that but you did also claim that the Yakubu and Fernandes bids were fake.
You say he lied about Rooney being for sale. "Not for sale" is a generic soundbyte from any Club with a star player they’re trying to hang on to. What did Steve Gibson and Gareth Southgate tell us a week before Yakubu joined us. You got it, "he’s not for sale".
I honestly could not support Everton if I held so much contempt towards so many aspects of the Club. You need to learn that just because the Club aren’t doing things the way you want them done, it does not mean that the Club are doing things the wrong way.
93 Posted 10/09/2007 at 14:40:40
94 Posted 10/09/2007 at 14:24:57
We are asked to believe that a man, on whose watch an established cultural event in the city was cancelled less than a month before it was due to take place, is capable of delivering a large scale building project on a site that even its supporters concede is likely to face numerous legal and administrative hurdles.
We are asked to believe that the council he leads has offered the club two sites (at Edge Lane and on Long Lane). But when where these offers made and what chances of success would there be of getting planning permission?
Whilst I respect the depth of feeling of those against the proposed move, I can’t respect anyone whos is gullible enough to believe Warren Bradley. Lets not forget, that this city faces a financial crisis brought about directly as a result of the mishandling of the City of Culture bid by the ruling group on thec council. During this entire period, Mr Bradlety has been a leading figure.
If it came down to comparing the records of Mr Wyness whilst CEO of EFC and Mr Bradley as Leader of LCC, there can only be one winner.
KEIOC and their supporters may have good grounds for not trusting Wyness on this matter, but please, lets not make the mistake that Bradley is acting the way he is out of anything other than political opportunism. The Lib Dems face a tough time at the next council elections (due to the aforementioned Culture Chaos) and it may not have escaped Bradley that throwing in his lot with the anti movers may not be a bad thing from an electoral point of view.
95 Posted 10/09/2007 at 14:55:47
96 Posted 10/09/2007 at 14:40:44
97 Posted 10/09/2007 at 14:06:42
98 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:13:00
The simple reason why we still come on is because some fans - maybe a couple of hundred want to continue the ’debate’ which i’m happy to take part in too. I do accept though that the overwhelming majority of blues (yes and no voters) have moved on now after the vote and just can’t wait until our lovely new 50,000 (expandable to 60,000) stadium is complete.
99 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:17:46
100 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:22:58
101 Posted 10/09/2007 at 14:45:14
Tesco are the wrong people to do business with< LOOK AT ThEIR RECORD WITH SUPPLIERS< THEY ARE WALKING ALL OVER Kenwright. He is just out of his depth and Wyness is not doing this for the good of Everton, he may well get a job at Tesco after he leaves.
THe move to Kirkby is just the wrong move, it really is.
102 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:34:20
103 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:42:14
104 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:37:24
that = the yes votes have it, end of the line for the die hards I am afraid you lost and the yes vote won not rocket science my dear Mr Marsh mellow If you want me to spell it out for you again I will
The yes won the Nos Lost end of story now go back to work and get way from your PC before you have a heart attack
105 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:58:49
106 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:52:58
107 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:51:03
108 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:13:49
Not Ian Ross, I think you are undoubtedly right about the fact that people would vote for a stadium closer to the City Centre than Goodison is over a stadium in Kirkby. However, I don’t believe the outcome of the vote would be much different if we were offered a stadium in Fazackerley or Gilmoss (inside LCC boundaries) as has been mooted and if the vote had been over a move to Speke, I actually think it would have been a ’no’ majority. Boundaries aren’t the issue for most people as far as I can see, it’s the suitability of the location and it’s proximity to the City Centre. This is where I feel LCC and KEIOC have failed. It isn’t about keeping Everton within the City boundaries, it’s about giving Everton a prime location. I, and I suspect many others, would just as soon move to Kirkby as move to Gilmoss, Long Lane or remain in Walton. None of these locations are prime locations. A prime location would be within walking distance of the City Centre and if LCC and KEIOC are so confident the Loop is viable then they should put ALL of their energy into producing some facts and not just a crayon-based drawing. If we aren’t going to get a City Centre stadium then all this bitching is for nothing, as a stadium in any other area of Liverpool will not generate any more income than the Kirkby stadium. I feel the Kirkby stadium is good enough for Everton FC and thus voted ’yes’. Of course, I would prefer a City Centre stadium but as far as I can see it ain’t going to happen with this joke of a City Council and we can’t let Everton FC get left behind.
109 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:31:03
None..... I repeat none of these accusations are true, and most are even quite farcical. I am not a member of the group, but I have attended various meetings and they have facilitated my meetings with various architects and LCC etc. These people are just dedicated match-going blues who believe strongly enough to have the conviction to campaign against this out of town move. Some actually live closer to the Kirkby site but still feel that it is wrong for the club. They are all genuine people from various walks of life and professions. There was one rowdy person at the meeting the other day who looked worse for wear (he wasn’t a member of KEIOC), and he was asked to leave. No drama, no incident! All Evertonians were welcome to attend, no-one was in any danger if they voted yes. To say otherwise is pure fabrication, there were several children, women and older people in attendance I didn’t see anyone who looked threatened with several speakers and lots of questions from the audience.
110 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:11:56
Didn’t Johnson if memory serves me right once propose a ground at Kirkby Golf Club which I think is in LCC within the M57 no one complained at the time about that. Is Gillmoss all the waste land where the old English Electric site is as far away from the city as Kirkby. Is Speke not even further than away than Kirkby.
111 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:20:59
Get a life boys. You spent too many years supporting Derek Hatton and his anti-Thatcher cronies and believe the whole world is one big conspiracy theory.
112 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:33:06
113 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:26:25
Although I have been strongly against Kirkby project from the first piece of information came out, it has had nothing to do with the boundaries or Kirkby itself, it was to do with the ’projections’ and ’revenue streams’ and ’forecasts’ presented by KW to bolster that side of the argument. I have tried to be generous in studying the information, the proposals and why the board have faith in them, yet every time I gain a slight insight into their minds workings they go and change the information!! If someone wants to sell you a house saying it has 3 bedrooms, you get interested, then they tell you it’s only got 2 would you be worried? And there was a possibility that the neighbours weren’t too happy with you moving there and would protest? Still be interested?
There is a neo-con attitude at Everton (seeing as everyone is talking politics) that lives by their own rules, ignore or lie enough and it will go away.
If this project was driven by EFC it would have been easier to ’obtain’ a ’no vote’, as it was the club relied entirely on the propaganda techniques that Tesco HAVE to use to get their way in situations like this.
A lie is best hidden between two truths, them being Tesco reason for Kirkby and KMBC reason for Kirkby. Ours doesn’t stack up financially I’m afraid, pie in the sky statistics.
114 Posted 10/09/2007 at 15:53:54
Tony, does anyone at KEOIC sit down and discuss tactics ? Do you and others involved ever take a calm moment to assess the best way to get your points across ? Seems not and frankly the own goals you score would make Sandy Brown proud.
What is the one thing guaranteed to deflect attention away from KEOIC’s important opportunity to continue the debate in a sensible and intelligent manner that might gradually win more people over in an argument that in my view still has a long way to go before contracts are signed ?
I’ll tell you, its by telling us "yes" voters that we are not "real evertonians". I cannot say how stupid that statement is because I cant belive anyone is crazy enough to think this will help their position in any way whatsoever ? I cannot believe that any "yes" voter would have been brave enough to turn up to the meeting as clearly they risked abuse and more for daring to oppose the no vote campaigners. But it had been said that "all were welcome". You must be joking.....
The "hate Kenwright" thing is so old news. The guy makes cock ups for sure and he may well be haunted by the loss of the KD development but in the last few days we have seen evidence of the doubts emerging about the trend towards new ownership at top clubs. The RS deal is only now being analysed in any depth and the debt burden is twice that facing Man Utd.....a couple of seasons out of the CL and season ticket price hikes to near-London levels and many kopites will soon forget the "price no barrier" transfer policy currently operating at their club. Man City may yet regret taking on a man wanted in his country for serious offences and Newcastle may yet feel vulnerable about an owner whose main company is said to be considering a third profits warning in a year and whose future looks to be a tough one.
Thing is Tony, you slag Kenwright off yet the jury is still out on these new owners. Time will tell whether EFC’s apparent caution is a massive missed opportunity or a very shrewd and secure bit of business planning.
As for the great stadium debate. Well whats the point ? You arnt that interested in yes voter views, never where. We are not real evertonians, we are sheep, we are stupid and worthless and lack the insight and intelligence that is demanded of a KEOIC campaigner. I wish you could see the damage done by this attitude and how much is risked by the nasty and intimidatory nature of the post-vote "discussions".
115 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:22:26
I think you will find that the opposite is true. There is an abundance of brownfield sites in Liverpool. Trevor Skempton identified 6 on his own. Liverpool is like a complete building site at the moment, and there are till big open spaces in places as central as Everton. In the US they are currently undergoing the biggest stadium building boom in over 80 years. I read somewhere that they are currently building more stadia than the rest of the world put together, not sure how accurate that is. They are knocking down out of town stadia (some only 30 years old) to go downtown and benefit from mass transit public transport networks, and there have been several very successful ones already, some shoehorned into city blocks more densely built up than anything in Liverpool. Very few new stadia are built out of town world wide, particularly not local sports clubs venues. For me the point isn’t really about Kirkby’s non-Liverpool status (although this does carry the identity issue), I agree that like Speke (part of Liverpool) it would be ridiculous to locate a stadium so far away from the centre of gravity of our support. Anyone tried getting to the retail park lately which has a substantial car park? Where are all the extra buses for this facility......? They never materialised. People from South Liverpool approach from Speke road, and via Speke Boulevard for those who traversed the city via Queens Drive or the M57...... It’s complete grid lock half the time, and that’s without a footy stadium, and that’s also with a mainline and Northern line station less than a mile away.
116 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:50:13
117 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:57:18
118 Posted 10/09/2007 at 16:52:14
well the less said about that the the better.It was a total farce and those claiming it to be proof of a victory for the yes camp are delluding themselves.Missing ballot papers,Non reciept of ballot papers,Ballot papers going to the wrong people,Supporters who were not entitled to them getting them and others that were entitled not recieving them,Families with 4 season tickets getting only one vote.I have had 2 for years I got one vote.Why? my lad might of wanted to vote yes.It was a balls up from start to finish and the reason being the club didnt really give a shit about the vote they wanted some one to blame when it all goes tits up in Kirkby thats what it was really about.If you cant see it then thats your look out.
119 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:07:19
I can’t believe this is still being debated.
"well Dean it’s because everyone cares about such an important issue" bollocks. You’ve got nothing better to do or you’re not doing something that you should be.
Important - yes, Concluded - yes
now please shut the fuck up, no wonder we get the nickname "whinging poms"
120 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:31:16
I see yes voters fighting their cause and saying it’s a done deal. Well the vote is that’s for sure. No voters and those against the kirkby move see it as the first step in a long battle. As is obvious here this will run and run.
For me I genuinely don’t want to be in a position in a few years time and say I told you so, but as it stands, as uppity as it is, I can’t see me saying other.
121 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:39:54
I can’t wait to see your responses in the next few weeks/months as step by step the Kirkby project comes together, the signings of contracts, then the planning application approval, then the nod from the govt, then the first shovels into the ground - my oh my you might even attract 200 to one of your KEIOC meetings. :lol:
122 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:09:52
123 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:20:05
You may be right about that...... This was spoken about at the meeting. Some people feel that we shouldn’t shut the door on any option because we all know how easy it is for any proposal to go tits up..... and we all like a plan B etc. It takes a long time to truly assess a site. Unfortunately we have neither the time nor resources to explore these properly. Access to the club’s data regarding alternatives would have been helpfull. These have been requested but have not materialised. Personally, I think we could fight on 2 fronts. We nearly completed a full set of options regarding redevelopment of GP. Most drawings are nearly complete. A business plan was in the offing, but could not be completed in time. Alternatively, The Bestway stuff will be well funded and resourced, so to be honest we have been put on the back burner. If Bestway don’t lose interest, (which they might if they don’t feel the club are being responsive, or that they have the fans backing) They should be able to generate an outline proposal in 6-9 months. The problem is of course, there will probably be all sorts of contracts and agreements being drafted for Kirkby as we speak.
124 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:47:46
We all thought a 50/60
thousand seater stadium would be a good idea out on this retail park but fuck me was I wrong.No one wants to know any more.Kieth and Bill have both buggered off
and now our leccy bill is costing more than we are taking through the gates.I remember when we were in that Premier league with the big boys. Now we are being called the new Leeds United but without the fan base.FFS WHAT HAVE I DONE???????????
125 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:52:48
There are however many obstacles to be dealt with by the club starting with ahem , planning permission. The legality of the situation isn’t as clear cut as you seem to promote. The original planning application by Tesco to build on east lancs was knocked back on a single objector. As this was within LCC boundaries you would be surprised to see that the one objection came from , ahem, KMBC, who would then go on to offer an alternative site. Now wouldn’t a tit for tat situation between the councils come as a huge surprise?
126 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:49:45
KEIOC got over 4,000 to St Georges Hall and many had to be turned away, and over 10,000 to vote no in a vote where according to the club, no meant EFC dying. Not bad for just a few weeks campaigning by a handful of individuals and a totally one sided ballot funded by the club and supported by its wealthy partner. A few more weeks and KEIOC would have gained further support, and of course a few more percent to KEIOC would have meant a few less to the YES vote.
127 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:57:31
128 Posted 10/09/2007 at 17:49:26
129 Posted 10/09/2007 at 18:08:07
There’s a difference between dishonesty and incompetence, which is a point I think somebody has already made above. Just because someone says they will do something, then is unable to deliver, does not necessarily make them a liar.
Rusty Man makes a really good point for me. As many NO voters have rightly pointed out, there is (I’m sure) a large proportion of the YES voters who would prefer a move closer to the city, and if a serious, deliverable project is put before them they would jump at it. However, how are you going to build support for a movement by rubbishing peoples’ opinions and questioning not only their loyalty but also their intelligence.
KEIOC are not a political movement or some sort of paramilitary organisation looking to cause trouble, they’re passionate Evertonians with an opinion. Unfortunately, many are undoing their efforts by allying themselves with KEIOC and then abusing YES voters. This is why minds will not be changed, lines have been drawn and sides have been picked and the same names pop up over and over again rubbishing each others claims.
I hope KEIOC keep going and perhaps, just maybe they’ll get a "plan B" off the ground. Then we will have something to debate. Until then the same old tripe is being rolled out over and over again. I’m happy to move to Kirkby but would have preferred a site near the city centre. So keep at it and show us what is truly deliverable. Otherwise, accept the future and support the club, wherever that may be.
And one last thing. All investment made in any business is made for a return! That means whoever it is, Tesco or otherwise, they will want something good from it. Please put the argument about big nasty Tesco to bed, because any large investor will be just as, if not more ruthless. At least we know what Tesco are getting out of this, no secrets there.
I would have voted YES based on what was on offer info wise for the vote at the time. However, I am definitely open to alternatives... serious, deliverable alternatives!
Keep the debate going, but respect everyone’s opinions and don’t make it personal, cos at the end of the day we all want the same thing... success on the pitch!
130 Posted 10/09/2007 at 18:32:43
131 Posted 10/09/2007 at 18:41:19
132 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:02:54
133 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:04:36
134 Posted 10/09/2007 at 18:49:21
135 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:23:11
Paul Davis I understand where you are coming from and I am not interested in debating the validity of the vote. It happened, the YES vote had a majority (however small) so the decision was made. However, where I agree with Dave is that the Kirkby deal is not yet signed. The vote was so that the board could move forward and whatever time there is before the deal is signed is left for anyone who wants to debate or campaign to do so. I agreed with the move to Kirkby based on what info I had, but I am more than happy for those with the time and inclination to continue the search for other options. Good on them I say.
What I do find boring is constantly going over issues like the vote validity and the integrity of BK & KW. Put the effort into finding a better alternative rather than trying to rubbish the current offer. That’s what the undecided wanted all along, not to be convinced that they were being duped.
If you don’t like the stadium debate, don’t read articles that are clearly about the stadium debate. There is a nice article about the new squad that’s quite good, read that instead.
136 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:20:57
All we ever get from you on this subject is smug remarks.
I have asked you before on this subject to back up with facts that the promises BK & BW spout will be delivered.
You can’t though can you ? It’s all conjecture and predictions based on not one piece of evidence or fact.
If i have to sit next to smug bastards like you at the Tesco dome, then i would rather stay away.
Then again 40 odd years of support counts for fuck all does it ?
137 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:10:33
Many vowed they would vote with their feet
It may have escaped peoples notice but even taking into account the 4,000 obstructed views there were 3,000 perfectly good seats vacant against Blackburn
The protest has already begun.
As of 10 minutes ago the OS was still trying to flog seats Against the Mancs, Against the Mancs ? dispite having what is generaly felt to be our most promising start for years.
what more evidence do people need ?
How on earth are we going to even 1/2 fill a 50-60 thousand seater stadium when some of the most dedicated of Evertonians have already thrown their hand in ?
Dont say they are not proper supporters, that merely perpetuates the finger pointing - in both directions
somethings radically wrong, and Kirkby needs kicking into touch before the whole situation becomes irreversable
138 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:39:01
139 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:52:31
He can sit their in his seat and survey all he has created.
Then count the number of empty seats. Should take him a while that.
Then wallow in his own self importance. LOL (as he so fondly puts it).
140 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:59:18
Some of the crap that is coming out of these yes voters or kopites make you chuckle. Every one should know by now how good EFC are at cocking things up, so watch this space Madden and co.
141 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:52:10
Like ALL yes voters I voted yes with a heavy heart, not a heavy heart with Long Lane in mind, or Speke, the tiny loop (no bigger than GP only worse with dangerous busy roads hugging the site), or Gillmoss but with the dear old lady very much on my mind - nothing else. I will miss her so much but now the vote has been done and dusted i’m very enthusistic in making Kirkby work - with Sir Terry Leahy on board viewing it as very much his own pet project I can’t see it fail, the huge Labour majority knowsley council will surely see it sail through the planning process then Sir Terry’s friends in the Labour govt will nod through the Labour councils enthusiastic and ambitious regeneration programme for a deprived area. Don’t forget the govt has a lot to thank Sir Terry Leahy for as he’s the principal partner of the govt’s precious ’new deal’ programmes for the long term unemployed - of which Kirkby (unfortunatly) has many. :(
142 Posted 10/09/2007 at 19:47:34
143 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:26:08
144 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:23:58
a few questions for you
why should bill want to sell?
Did bestway stand to loose the loop anyway due to a CPO because of project jenifer?
if Kirkby is doomed to failure how will bill and bully profit from a failed venture?
what would be the dispersal rate from the loop both normal and emergency? (important as we wont get a safety certificate without this rate being a reasonable time)
if LCC think they might own the KIRKBY land why has it taken so long to come out and wouldnt you have thought that bradly would want to have that confirmed before raising it at the meeting?
145 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:30:52
Think your a bit OTT mate..... Where are KEIOC ranting on here? Which poster is their representative on this forum.... or any other you know? You seem to be the only one getting flustered. No answers.....? please, that’s irony personified. KEIOC managed to muster 2/3 of the number of votes that the club did after the club had 18 months of preparation, their own and Tescos resources, and the local media and propoganda machine tied up. Not bad for amateurs with a few weeks of their spare time to dedicate.
146 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:43:54
I will debate with anyone on an adult level. I have no problem if you voted yes and are sincere about your reasons.
But i wont stand for it being shoved down my throat by smug over-bearing sycophants like Madden.
147 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:50:50
I’m an individual with.
MY OWN OPINIONS. I just feel this is wrong.
And i havn’t come up with any sums.
148 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:52:34
Close this down it’s going nowhere now!
149 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:35:47
Do you not realise that your proposed absence is going to create the situation you say you don’t want i.e. an Everton team which struggles through lack of support?
"I don’t want Everton to wither away and die, but I’m buggered if I’m going to go to Kirkby just because BK and KW took us there". Is that really supporting your team? IMO, I don’t think so.
150 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:46:16
I’ll attempt to respond to your questions....The count for the attendance at St Georges Hall was done by the Hall’s security staff. They controlled the flow, and counted everyone through. If you attended you may have seen a bloke with a counter. The straw poll was a last minute inclusion, but only so many slips were provided. Again this was counted independently.
As far as why should BK want to sell..... I can’t speak for him. He has always stated that he wants investment, presumably as he cannot provide sufficient funds himself.
I don’t believe Bestway are going to be CPO’d. But don’t know for certain.
HOK have produced figures for this. These are the biggest stadium designer/planners in the world. There are several more congested sites than the Loop. The Emirates for instance is sandwiched between 2 railway lines. The Millenium hugs a river and tight city blocks. The outline ideas say this stadium will have at least 2 completely open elevations. The site is also close to large local emergency utilities. Dispersal in terms of access to public transport will be unmatchable anywhere else in or around the city. It will also radiate in all directions which cannot happen at Kirkby for instance
I don’t think Bradley raised it at the meeting.... someone else mentioned it I think, and he responded. The whole covenant thing may not be a massive issue. There is further mention that the Archdiocese owns the land.... I can’t say for certain.
151 Posted 10/09/2007 at 20:57:09
WB should not be surprised at all that the Club are reluctant to deal with him, bearing in mind his recent comments (as per the article above & elsewhere) and his attitude towards them.
For those who are intent on insulting fellow Evertonians, ranking themselves as a better Blue, you should be ashamed of yourselves. I know that im ashamed of you.
152 Posted 10/09/2007 at 21:46:32
You are incorrectly attributing every ’no’ vote to the influence of KEIOC.
153 Posted 10/09/2007 at 21:55:25
I think it’s fair to say they played a major roll in it. Bestway literally only presented anything the day before the vote started, and its only images coming when the vote was almost over. It was Trevor Skempton who initially proposed the Bestway site, who also supports KEIOC objectives. Granted some voters will have simply voted no without any external influence, not everyone has internet access, and KEIOC’s coverage in the local media was tiny compared to the pro-kirkby campaign.
154 Posted 10/09/2007 at 22:21:10
Again, you assume that every ’no’ vote can be attributed to KEIOC and/or the loop proposal.
That is as naive as suggesting that every ’yes’ vote is attributed to what EFC released.
Neither statement is correct, nor should it be suggested they are.
Evertonians arent stupid, we can (and do) make informed decisions, not just do as any particular group tell us in the loudest voice.
155 Posted 10/09/2007 at 22:11:00
Thanks for that little party political / Tesco love-in outburst Gerard... in the meantime ...’Yippee for Walton’ eh ?
156 Posted 10/09/2007 at 22:23:01
157 Posted 10/09/2007 at 22:41:18
158 Posted 10/09/2007 at 22:34:17
Actually it greatly depends on your definition of stupid... where exactly are you setting the benchmark ?
We are all different...joined only by the love of one football club; some fans like me are pretty stupid, others maybe not so. I wouldn’t have precluded anyone from a vote, but then I wouldn’t have held a vote because my stupid ethics would have precluded me from doing that in the first place...
It was however (in my stupid opinion) utter madness to throw the future of the club into the hands of the people on the street without providing them with an extensive, exhaustive analysis of EVERY OPTION STUDIED over the last 5 years, along with some indication as to WHO THESE STUDIES WERE CONDUCTED WITH... The ’average’ maybe even ’stupid’ fan would then be suitably equipped as to make a sensible, rationalised or even ’stupid’ judgement upon which they could cast their vote accordingly.
Instead, what do we get? errrmm.. no details, just NO PLAN B !
So my question is, and I ask this cordially... WHO is treating WHO as stupid?
159 Posted 10/09/2007 at 23:33:34
160 Posted 10/09/2007 at 21:40:25
At the moment we hold our own in Liverpool but that will be a thing of the past if this disaster takes place.
I can just picture that closet madden guy with his red shirt on laughing at us.
161 Posted 10/09/2007 at 23:52:32
Talking of Wyness / bonus - I bet he is on about £500k a year ... which would mean he’s worth half a Gary Naysmith ...
162 Posted 11/09/2007 at 07:29:43
Whilst this season is some what make or break for moyes, required to banish the blip of 17th(i am a moyes supporter BTW) we have made progress and i see regular champions league qualification as a part of our future,
if by the time the new stadium opens its doors we are playing regular european football ,having successful cup runs break into the "ahem" top four "ahem" consistantly then why couldnt we attract 50000.00 + per week wherever we play
one thing i do know is we stand a greater chance if those who are saying "i’m not going" do go
163 Posted 11/09/2007 at 09:00:22
164 Posted 11/09/2007 at 09:25:46
It?s true, many diehard blues are refusing to go to Kirkby, they feel that a move will take away the clubs identity and will no longer be the club they have always supported, it will no longer be the club that represents them, or as Tony put it, it will no longer be "their" Everton
Try to understand, these guys love the club, but they feel a huge sense of betrayal, lets face it they have been up front all along, they have always said they would never go to Kirkby.
The custodians of our club , along with the 15,000 who voted yes Knew this, but by going against their express wishes, they presumably feel they can get along without them. They cant
Now, all of a sudden the people who stated clearly BEFORE the vote, that they would not go to Kirkby are being portayed sore loosers
Its like a marrage mate, some people could forgive their wife betraying them and try again, others wouldnt have her back at any price
165 Posted 11/09/2007 at 10:04:23
At least there better in that respect than some chairman, chief execs. If my bosses decided to move the company 10 miles from my home instead of the 3 that it is now I wouldn’t even get a say in the matter.
The problem you people have is that the "majority" and I have to keep saying "majority" voted to move, you can say "but yes it wasn’t the majority because 10,000 or 11,000 didn’t vote." That’s not the Yes voters fault, if they couldn’t be bothered to vote that’s there fault. We’re on the move possibly, it’s not set in stone yet, but the option is there. So get over it, shut up, get behind the team for as longs as we are at GP and stop going on about it. It’s out of your hands now and the more you lot and KEIOC realise that the better it will be for fans and supporters of the club.
You can go on about KEIOC not being political, but of course you are, now that you’ve aligned yourself with Slippery Warren Bradley you can be nothing but political. In a way you are militant as Yes voters can’t get a word in edgeways and get shot down by you naysayers as traitors, scabs, not true Evertonians (and you can say that you have never said this but it’s been said, believe me I’ve been on the end of it from a few of you KEIOC supporters).
Get a grip, support the team and give up your futile Dad’s army (we will not be moved) campaign.
166 Posted 11/09/2007 at 10:33:26
If this ’deal of the century’ was exactly that then a vote wouldn’t have been necessary, the board should have had the courage of their convictions and done as you say your company would have done, instead they obfuscated and laid the decision on the supporters so there was no blame on themselves. A nice gesture but with no authority and that is where the contempt comes from, not from actually giving us a vote, but in the way it was presented with obscure facts and a heavy handed bias fuelled by scaremongering with extremely little in the way of opportunities for balanced information to be presented. At the next general election if only Labour could issue a manifesto but the tories and lib dems couldn’t and labour scraped through, would you be happy with that as a democracy? Don’t get all mardy on me because I am posting my opinion, it seems the yes voters are the ones getting uppitty about the fact the ’debate’ still going on. There is no ’fault’ attached to yes voters from me, the fault lies with the club and it’s disregard for presenting options to those who could vote (remember it didn’t take place smoothly either)by having such a one sided forum for what is the biggest decision in our lifetime certainly.
If we do end up in Kirkby then that ’we’ becomes something completely different to the ’we’ that exists now, truly, all that has gone before has to be replaced and a ’new and exciting, modern’ version of EFC has to take it’s place, one that has an extra 10 mill to compete with manure etc, that, ’if’ KW new revenue streams fulfill his 100% projections. Unfortunately all the baguettes and chablis KW can provide wouldn’t be enough to take the sour taste left in my mouth from the way this club has discarded it’s identity and it’s fabric and opted to jump in bed with 2 organisations that play it like a fool.
Time will tell, but we’re still allowed to comment and all the slagging off in the world won’t change the fact that the decision taken by the board has choked the life from the one thing I thought could never be taken away, the solid basis of it’s support.
167 Posted 11/09/2007 at 10:44:57
Who has the right to tell anyone to stop campaigning? Are you telling me every vote/ballot ever has resulted in the best result? KEIOC believe that in this case it most certainly hasn’t. A 41% NO vote, given the heavily weighted campaign would suggest that they feel vindicated. Anything like a balanced vote with equal resources, time and media coverage would have seen a different result. I too have received threats from pro-kirkby supporters, so it goes both ways. That however should not detract from the main issue. We all want what is best for this club...... no-one can say with any confidence that they know anything like enough to make that judgement with the information so far, hence the massive number of abstensions. That being the case, KEOIC and whoever else have the right to persue all options, I mean Bestway have only had 2 months, it took Tesco 18 months to show us anything.
BTW, If KEIOC are political what Party do they represent, what political agenda have they got? Both the heads of Labour and the Lib dems attended the meeting for obvious reasons, it’s about keep EFC on their patch, they are both EFC season ticket holders, so they would be more than eligible to attend regardless. Neither are members of KEIOC, so it’s a ridiculous notion altogether.
168 Posted 11/09/2007 at 11:29:37
11,000 ’Don’t cares’
169 Posted 11/09/2007 at 13:01:21
170 Posted 11/09/2007 at 13:30:49
171 Posted 11/09/2007 at 13:33:50
Common link? They all moved grounds WITHOUT consulting their fans, all of them quite considerable distance from their origins, please guys if you?re not now going to Kirkby just drop this rant and let TRUE Evertonians, WHO will follow their team anywhere get on with the proper job in hand of supporting the team.
172 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:13:03
Coventry = Tesco, and not gone down too much of a success there. Stoke = so what? Man City moved to a much better stadium than the one we?ve been shown pictures of.
If you?re happy then be happy, but FFS don?t dare to say I?m not a true Evertonian because I hold a different viewpoint you sad deluded git. Grow up!!
173 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:05:13
This debate is a long way from being over, a good pointer will be if that fat bloater in the Main Stand starts singing, I will take my cue from that and long may that continue not to be the case.
174 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:25:25
175 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:25:55
Well have they not just resubmitted a planning permission to the council,as they have changed the design,and by Law they have too.Well Mr Bradley,youu,re in charge now,so time to stand by your word and fuck them off!!
176 Posted 11/09/2007 at 14:48:48
177 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:19:57
Everton are run by a Theatre Producer with no great considerable fortune of his own or business acumen, he lives in the world of lovie dovies treading the boards of the West End. He has filled the board with cronies and yes men, he has no willingness whatsoever to allow an outsider to buy or buy into the club despite the fact he says he is looking for investment 24/7. We are not a PLC so we cannot be bought without his consent. He wont give up the reins, the power trip of owning Everton feeds his ego to much. I used to cringe when I saw that Joseph programme when Graham Norton introduced him as our Chairman.
178 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:43:58
179 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:52:19
180 Posted 11/09/2007 at 15:56:42
I have no idea on that mate, just a guess like but with KEIOC being such staunch blues like all of us are i’d guess that the prospect of groundshare would turn their stomachs - i’d prefer a relocation to Timbuktu to be honest.
181 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:02:48
Its just a shame that its got down to "Im a bigger Blue than you cos",
I think we will stand devided on this issue right up until something actually happens.Personaly I would have taken a groundshare in the City every time .
182 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:08:56
Are those guys from Dubai still looking to invest?
Why is it when we hear of all these overseas guys looking to buy clubs Everton never get a mention, is there a NOT FOR SALE sign at Goodison Park.
183 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:00:17
184 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:12:33
I also think it would not look good for us the RS would fill it and we wouldnt (thats an unfortunate fact)
185 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:17:08
186 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:25:01
187 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:27:42
188 Posted 11/09/2007 at 16:31:54
Now you taking the p**s! I can’t believe that people would entertain literally being the little brother to RS instead of moving 5 mile to a (granted, not awe inspiring) 50,000 seater stadium in Kirkby. Whether you believe in Kirkby or not, groundshare was and still is a non-starter.
189 Posted 11/09/2007 at 17:00:37
190 Posted 11/09/2007 at 20:20:43
191 Posted 11/09/2007 at 21:33:34
192 Posted 11/09/2007 at 21:58:40
193 Posted 11/09/2007 at 22:20:00
As it was the last 3 years season ticket holders I suppose you can add another thousand or so for those who did not renew this year. In addition a large number of the walk up would have a vote as many will be members of evertonia to ensure ticket availability. Again this was for the last 3 years. This would account for a large percentage of the other 11.000 votes.
The bottom line is those who were offered the vote are in the main regular match attendees from the last 3 years.
I am not saying all regular match attendees will have got a vote but as many have said however it was done holes could be picked.
60 % of those bothered to vote said Yes, 40% said No, But around 29% of those who could vote for one reason or another did not bother. This is probably the most disappointing aspect. Yes some may have been away, moved ect but surely not 11,000.
Anyway this is one thing we cannot chance think about yes change no.
By the way I am still awake.
194 Posted 11/09/2007 at 23:05:25
195 Posted 11/09/2007 at 23:37:01
196 Posted 12/09/2007 at 02:16:15
"it?s what all real Evertonians want"
Dude! who died and made you king of the zombies!?!
197 Posted 12/09/2007 at 09:05:02
The NO voters are alive and well, Tony is just one of us.
198 Posted 12/09/2007 at 12:01:42
199 Posted 12/09/2007 at 12:40:53
200 Posted 12/09/2007 at 13:10:40
201 Posted 12/09/2007 at 13:33:20
202 Posted 12/09/2007 at 15:21:53
203 Posted 12/09/2007 at 15:39:53
I will focus more on the job at hand of getting behind the team, and let our excellent board deal with the kirky stadium.
The only moan i have about everton today is their dealings with tickets for the Metallist game, me and a friend had to book seperately cos and try about 30 times to get seats together beacuse there are errors when you book 2 tickets with 2 memberships, even when you phone they couldnt do it.
Come on blues, ticket service is pants!
204 Posted 12/09/2007 at 16:01:51
I have reservations now about Kirkby due to the lack of trains and buses and the fact that nearly everyone will enter from the M57/Fazakerley or M57/East Lancs as the motorway traffic and the non motorway traffic will meet at thes points.
The only other way in is the country roads from Ormskirk.
Do, when they propose these stadia, they look at the transport issue. Probably not because I cant see Blue Bill or Tesco Terry getting the 92 bus or the 12:00 from Hunts Cross.
I would also imagine you cant get a bus or train across town to Kirkby (ie from the South end of Liverpool)you have to go either into the city centre or get on somewhere along the route from the city to Kirby.
What i am trying to say if you go by public transport from Speke or Halewood you have to go in a big loop into town and out again, which must add about an hour to the trip plus the cost is more expensive.
Has Tesco also thought about its customers on a Saturday who aren’t interested in football. How the hell are they going to shop, the carpark and surrounding roads will be chocabloc. I would park in Tesco go in by a stick of gum get a receipt go the match and then tell the car park attendant I have been shopping pal here is my receipt now let me out.
205 Posted 12/09/2007 at 17:46:11
206 Posted 12/09/2007 at 19:06:35
207 Posted 12/09/2007 at 19:30:37
208 Posted 12/09/2007 at 20:33:18
209 Posted 12/09/2007 at 21:43:35
210 Posted 12/09/2007 at 21:51:07
211 Posted 12/09/2007 at 22:14:14
212 Posted 12/09/2007 at 22:22:30
I have not seen any whinging or whining from the beaten minority as you describe us, a lot of passion on the subject but very little of the latter. You are a gloating twat and bring nothing to the table but smug comments.
If you dont want to hear our dissenting opinions dont read them. Some of the Pro Kirkby voters on this forum make interesting and valid points but not you.
Do all of us No voters a favour, get some perspective, otherwise fuck off to noddy land where you belong.
213 Posted 12/09/2007 at 23:04:32
214 Posted 13/09/2007 at 08:53:00
I disagree Steve, all you lot ever do is whinge and whine.
215 Posted 13/09/2007 at 09:08:59
Youre like a broken record.
Like Steve said, try youre tact in one of the boozers around the ground.
Youre smug attitude will get you the attention you seem to crave.
216 Posted 13/09/2007 at 11:04:39
In fact outside of fairly constructive argument from everyone concerned with this issue,
please inform me which people you accuse of these tendancies ?
You and Madden have done a lot to get people at each others throats, you must be proud of your achievements across this forum.
Keep on spouting Foxy, I am a great believer of what comes around.
217 Posted 13/09/2007 at 12:10:50
Calling me names like Virginia and Foxy (you must be peeing your pants as you write it down).
Anyway, as a polar opposite to KEIOC I will be setting up a KEAFNAMM website. Keep Everton Away From Nutters And Militant Madmen. Catchy!!!
218 Posted 13/09/2007 at 12:13:12
219 Posted 13/09/2007 at 11:35:31
??The way KW & BK handled this project was with contempt for the supporters, not respect, and as such they will be remembered as the ones who not only took Everton out of the city but Evertonians out of Everton FC ! ??
I don?t think there is another Chairman in the land that would of given supporters a vote on the issue, other Chairmen thought he was stark raving mad ? he should be applauded not castrated.
??If this ?deal of the century? was exactly that then a vote wouldn?t have been necessary, the board should have had the courage of their convictions and done as you say your company would have done, instead they obfuscated and laid the decision on the supporters so there was no blame on themselves.??
Yeah right Magicjuan, I?m sure that would have gone down really well if no vote was offered. The level of abuse the board has received has been way over the top as it is; can you imagine what it would have been like with no vote?
It seems he cannot win, if they went ahead with no vote on the basis of having ?courage of their convictions? they would certainly have been vilified in all quarters. They offer the vote and it?s is still not good enough for some on the grounds that a glossy brochure has swayed the ?yes? voters judgement. I would assume most people who bothered to vote would of done so on more than a glossy brochure, to suggest otherwise just smacks of sour grapes.
Also, I keep reading articles from ?no? voters stating they don?t know one Evertonian who voted ?yes?. I can honestly say I know about 10-15 Evertonians where I work and only one was opposed to the move. If the vote had been a 51% majority for the ?no? voters you can bet your bottom dollar KEIOC would of claimed victory and demanded all talk of Kirkby be put to bed. The fact that the majority voted ?yes? all of a sudden the goal posts change and it?s ?? should the board have the mandate to move grounds with less than a 60% vote??.
On the Tesco issue, Terry Leahy is a diehard Evertonian born and bred in Liverpool. Obviously he has a duty to the shareholders of Tesco but he also has Everton?s best interests at heart, I know his brother and he is the most passionate Evertonian I?ve ever met. Terry is using his position of power to help Everton build a new stadium in times of financial hardship, yet many choose to criticise and abuse him ? why?
Nothing will ever be good enough for some people and if you decide not to go to the new stadium then obviously your allegiance to Everton Football Club isn?t as strong as many ardent followers who couldn?t care less about a few miles!!
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