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Do We Really Exist?

By Chris Hockenhull :  15/06/2008 :  Comments (73) :
Am I alone in this I wonder? There have been many well written pieces regarding how the profile of our club is handled and I believe this has gone on for years before now that Everton has never had someone on board who has a desire to point out to rest of the globe that we were here first and that there is another club in this city.

It came to me again whilst watching the first installment of the BBC Alexi Sayle look at Merseyside. There was the (inevitable) reference to Hillsborough and the predictable stuff about The Sun etc. We had the red input and then the quote about "even bitter blues don't buy the Sun". But what struck me was the aerial shot of Anfield whilst Sayle voiced over a reference to the footballing passions of the city. But (and let's face it, it was difficult to do whilst shootong an aerial panoramic shot of Anfield and surrounding area) there was absolutely no view of 'the other ground' so to the national outsider they wouldn't realsise we are not that far from Anfield. It's amazing that I find people outside this city who still do not know how close the two grounds are. Of course with 'editing' like this they never will.

I missed Friday's installment but a Red friend of mine said he too had notced the lack of Everton references in eEpisode 1 and said too they recognised the bias reflected in the opening edition. After all, this programme is not about football but about The City and therefore not a forum to push Liverpool FC's profile and omit our existence almost entirely.

Now today I look at the shedule for this coming week's final episode and see we have to look forward to an appearance from Ian St John and a 'round of golf with John Aldridge'. Seems that the wiping out of Everton's part in city culture is continuing and the Stalinist clearing of our part in Liverpool's (the city) heritage and history continues for the masses.

Now do not give me this Paranoid Blue stuff but once again we are seeing the fruition of the club's lack of gaining us a profile continuing and it annoys me no end. For instance can anyone ever recall what we did to celebrate our centenary in 1978?? Exactly, it goes back even then.

The club has never done its fans a credit to push itself to the forefront of English football. No wonder Europeans know so little about us or that we are even in this city (which looks like coming to an end ? and I'm not going down this road here). But for someone like Bill Kenwright who is in the business of promoting shows etc can't he see that he and the club have failed us on this front?

It's alright hanging those "People's Club" banners around the place but we know who he has to thank for that comment and without that it would never have happened but am I alone in being sick and tired by the way this club is made to feel it's a second class citizen in this city?

Reader Comments

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Jay Harris
1   Posted 17/06/2008 at 00:14:03

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Chris good post but Everything needs a champion and we havent got one.

The one ideally placed to do it i.e. "Blue Bill" cant be arsed about anything now he has reached his Nirvana and before that all we’ve had are "gentlemen" i.e. Sir Phillip Carter and Sir John Moores,all scousers but too "nice" to push Everton in the way that Shankly(a none scouser) and John Smith pushed Liverpool in the media.

Even amongst the players Everton had Brian Labone and dave Watson,giants in the game but gentlemen off the pitch.

Liverpool players and staff were always encouraged to push the club and go into the spotlight St John,Keegan,Gerrard all media ’darlings" while our own scouser "ossie" is a shrinking violet when it comes to the media.

I dont know which I’d sooner have to be honest because I think we get more respect from other clubs and supporters but obviously they get all the glitter.
Dick Fearon
2   Posted 16/06/2008 at 23:41:41

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When they come to write the history of Kirkby it will be Everton that gets all the praise and publicity.
Liverpool and its city council have made it very clear that in their eyes there is only one club worthy of consideration and it is not ours.
That was shown when LCC while supposedly dealing with our Kings Dock dream was secretly negotiating with other parties .
In light of that kind of back stabbing is it any wonder that BK signed an exclusivity deal with Tesco?
Then we had a list of Bradley’s ’generous’ offers that a cursory glance shows to be not worth a pinch of shit. They were among many red herrings desperate attempts to scuttle the Kirkby project.
A school kid would be ashamed of the stadium design that Bestway issued for the Loop.That was sum total of what came out of that particular herring.
In any case, Grosvenor had very quickly lodged objections to it begging the question, whos side would LCC support.
Competition in the retail trade is must be hot withTesco, Bestway, Grosvenor, Sainsburys, County Road shops and pubs, and other retail outlets in the region putting in their two bobs worth.
Apart fromTescos the rest has come up with stuff all by way of genuine offers.
Bellefield is further proof of LCCs antipathy toward Everton (despite half of them and their mothers supposedly being evertonians)
Evertons plan to build homes in a residential area was knocked back by LCC. A foreign owned franchise is granted permission to build a huge stadium on a public park. Need I say more.
Tom Hughes idea of a rebuild at Goodison depends very much on LCC agreement and in light of the above that is far from guaranteed. Any suggestion from LCC that nearby council land might be available for such a rebuild needs be taken with a pinch of salt.
I wish just for once that LCC or any other party with suggestions would do as Tesco has done and put their money where their mouth is.
According to the No voters Kirkby is going to be a dismal failure so why in hells name are so many business houses, councils and county road drinkers terrified that it will happen?
Chris Jones
3   Posted 17/06/2008 at 02:09:24

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It wasn?t always so. In the 60s it was Everton at the centre of a BBC Play for Today (?The Golden Vision?). We were the glamour boys, the ?Big club?. Sadly the 1970s and all those European trophies for LFC saw us pushed into the wings.

Even the tragedies of Heysel and Hillsborough (as with Munich for Manyoo) served to strengthen the media?s obsession with teams in red.

The media are generally very lazy and take a simplistic approach to just about every subject - not just football. Accordingly, and convinced that the great unwashed public are an unsophisticated lot who need things kept simple so they can understand, they (the media) pretend that LFC are the only team that matter.

I?ve never forgotten that when we beat Watford at Wembley in 1984 the BBC?s after match coverage was all about Watford and Elton John. The following day?s national news on BBC showed Watford?s return home, not ours! I ask you?!

Fuck em I say. You won?t change them, that?s for sure!
Nick Harrison
4   Posted 09/05/2008 at 22:33:45

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I was wondering how many Liverpudlian people (not fans) refused to buy the Sun newspaper. I don't buy newspapers but I've never baulked at the idea of buying the Sun on the basis of its reporting of Hillsborough, mainly just because it looks a bit crap. I'm bringing this subject up now because of an article I've just seen on tribalfootball: http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=91977 Mainly this section: "A Liverpool insider told The Sun: "Rafa has Keita very high up on his list for this summer and may well make a bid for him."" Is this not an issue to those Evertonians (and obviously Liverpudlians) who refused to buy the paper on the basis of their reporting of scousers?
Dave Wilson
5   Posted 17/06/2008 at 07:09:25

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Dick

some of the claims your making are inaccurate

LCC did not do the dirty on BK over the Kings Dock, they offered it on a plate, I think you’ll find, He - and therefore we -became a victim of his own fuckaroundary !
I cant say I blame LCC one bit for looking at contingency plans
I mean, who in their right minds would risk the whole thing falling through by roping themselves to an exclusivity agreement ? ? ?

As for Bellfield, was’nt that always going to happen ? thats politics mate, nothing to do with football
Your barking up the wrong tree here Dick

It was KW, not the council, who anounced to the world that a lot of the funding for DK would be raised by the sale of Bellfield - For which he boasted he had secured, subject to planning permission " a very high price"

Gerraldine Madred consistantly posted on this site to stress this "fact"
However true to form, when challenged he was never prepared to say how much he believed "a very high price" amounted to

Still lets not blame the people responsible politicians are a much easier target

The club has finally stated that there is after all a "plan B" - Its like a fucken little Britton sketch

Surely your not suggesting that if DK gets the thumbs down and Toms ideas are given the nod, thet the club havent already inquired about planning permission ???
Danny Naylor
6   Posted 17/06/2008 at 09:01:03

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I posted in another article about this. Liverpool FC will always be the media darlings for anyone outside looking in. They have more exposure, had more "world news" events happen to them (good and bad) and the fact they?re called "Liverpool FC" really does them a favour when a mainstream BBC program about Liverpool comes up around the Capital of Culture balls.



Liverpool has the biggest fanbase outside the city up and around the country (non scousers) for a northern team after Man Utd - mainly down to (like the Mancs) if you?re northern and have no identity and want to support a club that isn't the Mancs, they support the shite. Add to that they?re a "top four" side - more people will buy the mangazines, watch the program etc more so than if it was anything to do with Everton FC. You aim for the biggest market/audience and related to football terms for people outside the city LFC has the biggest audience.

The only way that changes is if EFC win and become sucessful.

But we?re not a club of media whores like the shite are IMO>
Nick Heady
7   Posted 17/06/2008 at 09:25:28

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I agree we never get the coverage we deserve, and was also amazed at that first episode of that programme, but let's face it that's what makes us special, isn't it?
Lee Mandaracas
8   Posted 17/06/2008 at 09:32:51

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I agree fully with the poster, Chris Hockenhull, but don’t want to comment on that further. All I really want to say is;

Dave Wilson ; "...fuckeroundary" verbal genius mate!
Gavin Ramejkis
9   Posted 17/06/2008 at 09:59:13

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Look North West news item about those stupid fucking banana things showed them all including one that looked like the fat waiter but not a mention of the Everton one, now how difficult is it to do a news item and if the propoganda police at EFC were so good at telling the world about Kirkby how can?t they tell everyone about EFC. The answer is blowing in the wind, the shambles of organisation at Everton, how hard is it to promote a Premier League football side that lives in the capital of culture (still) has regularly qualified for European football even if it isn?t quite the Champions League, and have a store in the city centre Liverpool One even on a short lease, can you honestly say a short term lease would lose money?
Ciarán McGlone
10   Posted 17/06/2008 at 09:41:45

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?Stalinist clearing??

You?ve asked not to be given this ?a paranoid blue? stuff but how can you persist with an unqualified statement like that and expect not attract the ?bitter blue? label?

Christ man, catch a grip... Liverpool are a bigger club than us at the minute ? get over it!

I wonder do Man City fans get on like this?
Danny Naylor
11   Posted 17/06/2008 at 10:34:24

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To a point I don't think it's Kenwright's fault surrounding exposure and PR.

You can try to ram EFC down people?s throats but if the media don't see a market to sell it, they won't, especially if there?s big old LFC next door that would get more punters to buy/watch etc.

But I do think the club should be doing more inside the city - the fact there?s no megastore in the centre of town anymore is a bit silly for example.

But then again the man on the street of Liverpool supports Everton so exposure is always there... just not on the box.
Karl Masters
12   Posted 17/06/2008 at 10:58:30

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A couple of things:

Dick Fearon: "A school kid would be ashamed of the stadium design that Bestway issued for the Loop."

Are you serious??? Does that mean you don?t think that Kirkby is just that. Frankly it would be insulting many schoolboys to suggest they came up with that awful DK design. The Loop design was leagues above Kirkby. Luckily for you, being in Australia it?s unlikely to matter much to you.

Also, Liverpool?s medis bias is based on many kids of the 70?s and 80?s who supported them now climbing into positions of influence in their 30?s & 40?s. Adde to the likes of Brian Barwick who first edited Match of the Day, then Head of BBC Sport and now high up in the FA it?s not something we can change overnight. But we should be working harder to attract the kids of today as supporters - 20/30 years time they?ll be in positions of influence.

And one more thing: Yes, BK has not got the drive to push us forward, but if Moyes can do it o the pitch, that won?t be so important. BK must give Moyes the players he needs this Summer.
Marc Williams
13   Posted 17/06/2008 at 10:57:27

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I know this may sound like the musings of a supposedly bitter & paranoid blue but I think the Club are cynically & deliberately playing along with the long running LCC & LFC agenda: to marginalise us & possibly exclude us from the City.
WHY ? Well I think that with their Kirkby plans they are hoping that all these attacks will make a large number of fans say :
" Fuck it we might as well move, what’s the city ever done for us " etc etc

Les Smith
14   Posted 17/06/2008 at 10:48:56

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A good post Chris, which most respondents seemed to have missed the point of. This was that Everton were referred to only once in the Alexi Sayle?s programme and then as ?bitter blue supporters?.

I would have expected a programme about Liverpool culture to have included the fact that Everton FC were one of a small group of football clubs that formed the original Football League. Also that an Everton player, WR (Dixie) Dean, scored sixty goals in one season. A record that has never been and is unlikely to ever be beaten.

If we are bitter blues, what do these omissions make Alexi Sayle?
John Lloyd
15   Posted 17/06/2008 at 11:30:29

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I think this has gone off on a tangent but the article is on the money for me.
In modern day football we all know its a business & yet we cant get businessmen to run it??? Don't even dare suggest Wyness to me I?ll throw up on my keyboard!!

The lad has a point about Kenwright. His area of expertise is putting together succesfull shows which includes advertising them any way possible it cant be hard to transfer some of them skills to promoting the club he owns?? And I am finding it very hard not to point out other mistakes & deficiancies that have been shown up from & by our chairman.
Danny Naylor
16   Posted 17/06/2008 at 11:55:05

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John Lloyd - "The lad has a point about Kenwright. His area of expertise is putting together succesfull shows which includes advertising them any way possible it cant be hard to transfer some of them skills to promoting the club he owns?? And I am finding it very hard not to point out other mistakes & deficiancies that have been shown up from & by our chairman."

But who?s going to listen/watch/read? The people in the city will, which I?ve said needs more of a push, but everyone outside the city doenst care. EFC isn't a sellable brand in the scheme of things and when you have LFC next door which is, it's harder to break into exposing the club to a wider audience. The only way that chances is in on the pitch and to be successful.

The Alexi Sayle programme is probably made by/produced and funded by southern media filtered through the north west commision. Its made for a wider demorgraphic where 50% of the people watchin the programme outside the city probably dont have a clue Everton is a team in Liverpool/Merseyside.

It's got nothing to do with LCC hindering EFC - we had a club shop, we?ve got buses and statues - it's more about the outside media being interested in the club, which they arent and would rather take interest in LFC and other top four clubs.

For example, when a pool ball was thrown at Tim Howard in the Uefa game... very little coverage shown and written about. Someone shines a laser pen in Ronaldo or Drogba?s eyes its back page news.

It's about profile. We don't have a big profile untill we win things. We should push are profile more in the city. But the fans do that anyway.
John Lloyd
17   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:14:40

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Danny I agree that is the situation at present, but are you saying that cant be changed? If so thats half of our problem in my eyes.

If DM and the team continue to improve on field things then it is the boards responsibility to sell the club better. We start that by becoming more visible in the city itself, which because of increased visitor numbers would have a knock on effect thus raising the profile even further. That is just a starting point, as to become or to even challenge this ’mystical’ 4 we need to attack on all fronts. On field and off IMO. There was a time no-one outside of London gave a club called Chelsea a 2nd thought but now they are everywhere, go into sports shops & thier shirts are alongside the Barca, Juve, Madrid & Milan ones all over Europe.

I know we havent got or are gonna get the financial injection that they had but thier plan can be followed as far as selling the club goes. Basically we need to move out of the old days at boardroom level and the marketing of this club needs to be improved.
Phil Bellis
18   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:19:39

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Hi Dick,
I still live locally and am not a business house, council or County Rd drinker; but I AM terrified that Kirkby will happen.
I believe the Board are whoring our club and gambling its future to overcome their own and their predecessors mis-management (since, at least, 1987)
As for the History of Kirkby, I think you’ll find it a short read compared to that of our home city and Everton’s part in it.
Gerard May
19   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:22:29

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Does anyone really care what Alexei Sayle or the BBC really has to say, for one I’m not really interested in anything the RS have to say or do, I’d rather read one well written article by a true fan on this website than watch a hundred poorly written shows on the BBC, narrated by a shit comedian who was never ever funny. Let the RS take all the limelight, they are welcome to it, it will make it more sweet when we finish above them and they crash and burn when the Americans bugger off.
Gerry Lyons
20   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:24:33

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Danny Naylor, what city do you live in? Fuck me, didn't you see how many fucking shirts there were the other week in that new shopping centre and around the city? When will we learn to live with the fact that they are bigger in every way than us, especially in marketing their club. I have just come back from Uganda and fucking hell they are eveywhere. It will be impossible for us to get into the top 4 clubs ? we just don't have the fan base money or selling power of the twats.
Dick Fearon
21   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:42:04

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I still maintain that with the exception of Tesco not one of the parties mentioned in my previous letter has made any tangible offer to Everton.
Danny Naylor
22   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:36:16

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John Lloyd - "Danny I agree that is the situation at present, but are you saying that can't be changed? If so that's half of our problem in my eyes."

Oh, of course it can change. Like you?ve said, Chelsea were nothing until 8 years or so ago. I agree too that it needs to be done on all fronts, on and off.

But I think what happens on the pitch is what gets the ball rolling. Win a trophy, sign a name star player (remember the exposure over Rooney?), win another cup, big cash injection etc the media follow the glory just like fans of non-identity who follow your Manc, RS etc outside their cities.

And don't forget we?ve had some big press coverage last seaon when we could?ve nipped 4th place - my favourate was the splash page in the Mirror with "anything you can do, we can do better" when the shite won 3-1 one day and we smashed Pompy 3-1 the next.
Gavin Ramejkis
23   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:31:18

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Maybe teaching your grandmother to suck eggs but how obvious is the media officer’s job if not to get in the media’s face and push push push or fuck off and get someone in who will, similarly the marketing officer to market, promote, sell sell sell. Christ the apathy and acceptance is atrocious. Who the fuck are Derby, Bolton, Portsmouth and I’ll bet even they get more media coverage and do a better job of marketing themselves. BK is nothing more than a jumped up ticket tout who "puts on" other people’s shows, he owns very little and just gets groups of people together to do the job then skims his percentage off the top.
Danny Naylor
24   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:51:35

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Gerry Lyons ? Erm...that?s what my posts were about if you happen to read them properly, boyo. The shite have the biggest fanbase outside the city after Man U for a northern club. In the city its almost 50-50 for red and blue fanbase (falling either way depending on who you support hehe). The point is that the media will follow them more, I haven't disputed that.

The posts I made are about the media and about how the blub can gain more exposure. We don't have to beat the shite in those terms, but we can spread the net wider.
Jay Harris
25   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:47:52

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Dick, you can maintain that all you like but a number of people have confirmed as fact that when they tried to approach EFC they were told they couldn't and wouldn't talk to them because of the (longest running in history) Exclusivity Agreement with Tesco.

That includes Bestway, Sainsbury, LCC and a few True Blues.

Danny Naylor
26   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:58:57

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Gavin Ramejkis - You?re talking shite mate. I know how the media media works, I?ve a degree in the thing and work in it, if there?s no market you cannot sell it.

You can get all in their face about a new signing in Steve Sidwell and pay cash to ask them to splash it on the back page ? they won't do it because who wants to buy a paper with Everton?s new signing?
Richard Harris
27   Posted 17/06/2008 at 12:50:17

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Alexei Sayle always was a knobhead so I wouldn?t take anything that he?s involved in now seriously. Back in the early days of the Comedy Store he provided a little more ?working class? perspective in ?alternative comedy? to counter most of the right-on do-gooders like Ben Elton and for that he was given a little more leeway. But those days have long gone and his relevance would be more appropriate to a programme about London than Liverpool.
Phil Bellis
28   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:06:13

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Danny

As an advertising professional I?m sure you also know that when a market doesn?t exist.... you create it!
Chris Roberts
29   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:12:00

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At the risk of getting back on topic and ruining the Kirkby pie fight. Might it not be that Alexie Sayle is a red and therefore of course he?ll stress them.

Now if Kerry Katona had been presenting the show... it might have been very different.
Gavin Ramejkis
30   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:07:08

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Danny are you working in media or are you too talking shite? Are you saying that lesser Premier League clubs such as Bolton, Portsmouth, and Derby as examples have some miracles being worked on them by their media or marketing departments? KW had a job to promote the Sydney Olympic Games, we are not talking about Kirkby we are talking a global olympic games with massive global media exposure and something that doesn?t just jump up on people unawares but is planned years in advance with Sydney having won the competition many years before. His marketing savvy got his company a massive, wait for it, humungous, one, yes one customer, now maybe if that customer was the size of IBM or HP or some other global brand that would be the "deal of the century" but it wasn?t. He even managed to fuck his single customer over before scampering back to Aberdeen with his tail between his legs. I?m not sure what BK sees in him as "the man" for the job but even a basic search would show him as a failure. To my mind and anyone else you don?t put failures in positions of importance, so I have to ask who has he put in positions such as marketing and your pet the media as they are quite clearly as shite as he is.

Are you saying you did a degree and you?re suddenly the world?s foremost expert? If you are then maybe you should apply for next year?s "the apprentice" and give us all some entertainment as you steamroll your way to the job every week destroying your competition with your foremost knowledge and experience. I?ve worked in IT for nearly twenty years but don?t count myself as an expert but know I know my shit or I wouldn?t still be doing the job ask any of the multinationals and banks that I?ve worked for and no I don?t fancy the apprentice as I earn more than the job offers already thanks.

Tony Waverleas
31   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:04:29

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I’m not Bill’s biggest fan or his harshest critic but to somehow blame him because "Aldo" will be seen having a round of golf with Alexei Sayle this coming Friday evening is ludicrous even by the standards of what gets posted on here.
Besides we all know "Aldo" will make an utter balloon of himself (trust me he will) and we’ll all sit there thinking, "Praise the Lord, another clown who didn’t play for us". We also know enough reds who’ll be sitting there cringeing just as much as we will (trust me we will).
If that’s the sort of exposure you crave so much for our club then count me out.
Besides, I thought we were supposed to be different? I thought one of us was worth twenty of them; I thought, most importantly, "We don’t care...". Seems we do.
Yes, a higher national profile for a club of our size and history would be lovely but it is our bad luck to have as our neighbours a rather succesful club who also happen to be nailed-on members of the "Sky Four". Still, I’ll probably get told told that’s Bill’s fault as well.
John Lloyd
32   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:20:19

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Danny I dont know if your involved in another argument here but I have got to agree with Phil Bellis, its the main job & surely main priority of an ad man/marketing/media person. To create a buzz, create some excitement get people talking etc etc, no-one is saying it would be easy but that is the whole point of having professionals do it for you, football is all about cycles as we know & maybe Everton Football club are about to become relevant in the national press again, I also agree that a trophy would do absolute wonders, never mind for the press or pR for us the fans.
Richard Harris
33   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:19:58

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Danny Naylor wrote "You?re talking shite mate. I know how the media media works, I?ve a degree in the thing and work in it, if there?s no market you cannot sell it".

So how do you explain Cillit Bang?
Tony Williams
34   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:38:20

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I certainly hope they exit otherwise I am paying £500 to a ghost company every season and have been hullucinating for years about being at a footy match.

I agree with the posters who don’t care whether we look bad/non existent on a 3 part documentary by a comic (who has done nothing funny since the Young Ones) who left 30 yeras ago and slagged the city off and is more than likely being forced to do this show as an apology.

We will not get a fair amount of good press until we become successful, that is the nature of the Beast, we dfo not, at the moment, have a saleable asset.

We are getting better but we are not there yet. The media will always favour the Shite over us until we start winning things
Danny Naylor
35   Posted 17/06/2008 at 13:33:48

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Gavin Ramejkis - "Danny, are you working in media or are you too talking shite? Are you saying that lesser Premier League clubs such as Bolton, Portsmouth, and Derby as examples, have some miracles being worked on them by their media or marketing departments?"

Lets see - Bolton? One of the highest regarded English managers leaves, they fight relugation etc. That?s all the media exposure they got.

Portsmouth - Won the FA Cup, are a southern team and have happy hatchet Harry as a manager, a media fav.

Derby - the worst Premier League side ever, thats a story.

Anyone else?


"KW had a job to promote the Sydney Olympic Games, we are not talking about Kirkby we are talking a global olympic games with massive global media exposure and something that doesn?t just jump up on people unawares but is planned years in advance with Sydney having won the competition many years before. His marketing savvy got his company a massive, wait for it, humungous, one, yes one customer, now maybe if that customer was the size of IBM or HP or some other global brand that would be the "deal of the century" but it wasn?t. He even managed to fuck his single customer over before scampering back to Aberdeen with his tail between his legs. I?m not sure what BK sees in him as "the man" for the job but even a basic search would show him as a failure."

Have I defended Kenwright? No, I said he isnt doing a good job in previous posts so its not like I?m defending him.


"To my mind and anyone else you don?t put failures in positions of importance, so I have to ask who has he put in positions such as marketing and your pet the media as they are quite clearly as shite as he is. Are you saying you did a degree and you?re suddenly the world?s foremost expert? If you are then maybe you should apply for next year?s "the apprentice" and give us all some entertainment as you steamroll your way to the job every week destroying your competition with your foremost knowledge and experience. I?ve worked in IT for nearly twenty years but don?t count myself as an expert but know I know my shit or I wouldn?t still be doing the job ask any of the multinationals and banks that I?ve worked for and no I don?t fancy the apprentice as I earn more than the job offers already thanks."

I never said I was an expert, but I said I was in the field and understand it, probably more so than people that dont know how it works. So why are you jumping the gun with the old "you think you?re better than us?" shite. You understand IT where I dont so you know when someone would go wrong if they posted a IT related question. Doesnt mean you?re an expert, just means you understand it more than other people which is what you?ve already said in your post so you contridicted yourself a little.


John Lloyd - "Danny I dont know if your involved in another argument here but I have got to agree with Phil Bellis, its the main job & surely main priority of an ad man/marketing/media person. To create a buzz, create some excitement get people talking etc etc, no-one is saying it would be easy but that is the whole point of having professionals do it for you, football is all about cycles as we know & maybe Everton Football club are about to become relevant in the national press again, I also agree that a trophy would do absolute wonders, never mind for the press or pR for us the fans."

A little spin might make you look good or like an arse, "deal of the century" ring a bell? It worked didnt it? But makes them look silly. In the world of football you need to look at your position and chose what you do and what you say. Rumour of buying Ronaldo from under Madrid?s noes? will generate interest buts is bollocks and makes the club look stupid. They?re low tatics. The whole point of this article is why dont the media look on us more than the other teams, and the fact is that we dont sell. But I agree we need more push for the city and the north west.



Phil Bellis - Danny

"As an advertising professional I?m sure you also know that when a market doesn?t exist....you create it "

I agree. But the football world is dominated by the clubs with power, success and money, so it's hard to create anything and break in unless its unique or a disaster that needs to be told. Which is probably what the club needs (not a disaster mind).
Kevin Tully
36   Posted 17/06/2008 at 14:24:05

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Walking around Costco on Sunday in Liverpool, there was a large display of "fan kits" right in the middle of the store. I don?t have to list the four clubs who were on display. You turn on the TV and the same four teams are on the opening credits of Sky news, every fucking hour. Any JJB you walk into, the first four kits you see are... ?

Now I am no no expert in the media or marketing, but I?m pretty certain this could have an effect on sales and who will sell your products. Sky has made this market as well as the newspapers and the only way we can break this monopoly is to regularly compete in the CL.
Danny Naylor
37   Posted 17/06/2008 at 14:47:56

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Kevin Tully - I agree, which was what I?ve mention to begin with. It ain't rocket science.

Compete on and have success on the pitch will get media exposure.

Throwing spin, cash, and in your face PR will only get you little, nothing, or egg on your face. What?s played on the pitch gets you noticed.
Graham Atherton
38   Posted 17/06/2008 at 14:46:21

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Finish in the top 4 every year and the tide will soon turn - Sky put us in those opening credits in the season after our ’top 4’ season. They feature the top 4 no matter who they are.

Match Liverpool marketing? A few Champions League cups are needed before we can get anywhere near that.

Its about success - pure and simple.
Chris Lee
39   Posted 17/06/2008 at 14:37:27

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Danny : Man City fan here.

It is of course the case that Everton are invisible to the majority of the population that is not actually fanatical about football but what do you think it feels like when fanatics using this board refer to our city rivals as "the Mancs"? If anyone should be called "the Mancs" it is City for reasons you are no doubt aware of but Merseyside football fans in particular seem guilty of this lazy terminology. We all know why - our friends (?) and neighbours have by far the bigger profile but it is still discourteous.

Still when did courtesy ever have any connection to football? City fans are worse than anyone for refusing to recognise the existence of other clubs with "City" in their names - see I’ve just gone and done it myself!
Geoff Barker
40   Posted 17/06/2008 at 14:43:49

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I think the worst thing about the club’s lack of a strong regional, let alone national, profile is how upsetting it is to have them (the shite) seeming to shit all over us on our doorstep. Like those fucking huge ad hoardings they’ve taken out in town. In these media saturated days it all seems like a conspiracy to marginalise us.


It feels as if they are being allowed to claim the city from right under our feet with their fucking liver bird crest and even their fucking club name. That John Houlding certainly got his revenge.

I find myself speculating that its in the LCC development plan to use LFC and its profile as one of the key elements to their rebranding of the city. They are a big cash cow for the city after all. Even the local media play up to the stereotypes now. Fucking citytalk behave like some kind of media wing of them.

Add to all this that we are jettisoning the city to move to Kirkby and the "one city, one club, one love" thing with all its appalling connotations just looks nearer and nearer.

Meanwhile EFC is seemingly happy to leave the city and the Liverpool "brand" to our bitter rivals and recreate EFC as an international force by moving by stealth into the Chinese market. Or at least that seems to be the focus of attention for the marketing dept. Where will it all end?

I despair......
someone cheer me up.
danny naylor
41   Posted 17/06/2008 at 15:35:29

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Chris Lee - Danny : Man City fan here.

It is of course the case that Everton are invisible to the majority of the population that is not actually fanatical about football but what do you think it feels like when fanatics using this board refer to our city rivals as "the Mancs"? If anyone should be called "the Mancs" it is City for reasons you are no doubt aware of but Merseyside football fans in particular seem guilty of this lazy terminology. We all know why - our friends (?) and neighbours have by far the bigger profile but it is still discourteous.

Still when did courtesy ever have any connection to football? City fans are worse than anyone for refusing to recognise the existence of other clubs with "City" in their names - see I?ve just gone and done it myself!


No offence meant by the post, I apologise. Lazy terminology for throwing posts up while skivving from work.

But City seem to be doing alright for themselves nowdays seeing that the in house stuff seems to be sorted - even in a PR sense compared to ours.
Rob McFawn
42   Posted 17/06/2008 at 15:54:31

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As far as I have seen, Chang manage to promote us pretty well over in Thailand!! Shame the same type of things aren’t done over here, closer to home....
Jay Harris
43   Posted 17/06/2008 at 16:00:07

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Danny
surely in your marketing degree you learned that marketing starts with a plan.

That plan embraces PR,the media,product marketing,ticket sales and most important of all branding.

In your desire to defend the indefensible can you please name any marketing initiative or semblance of a plan that EFC have shown under Kenwright whose forte is supposed to be in that field.

Never mind there’s no plan B there’s no Marketing plan either.
John Lloyd
44   Posted 17/06/2008 at 16:06:00

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Some good points there Danny, but I think others maybe misinterpreting the original argument.

I agree that success is whats needed to create more interest & as much as I hate them, I know that Liverpool & United are the media darlings of English football and that is a combination of them being the most succesfull clubs and having had god awful disasters happen to them (munich, hillsborough) but back to Everton, we have zero profile at present in our own city!! That has got to improve, everytime the city is mentioned, there should be * reference points The Beatles, Cathedrals, Docks & football Clubs.....both of them.

As we know the beatles have been heavily, heavily pushed by council, Liverpool FC are ding thier bit yet we are not. That has to improve.
Richard Grundy
45   Posted 17/06/2008 at 14:57:47

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I agree with Chris Hockenhull. We were conspicuous by our absence in Alexi Sayle’s program: air-brushed from the culture and city-scape to such an extent that one could be forgiven for thinking that some sort of editorial censorship was at work. The camera position for the aerial shot only needed to be adjusted by a fraction to capture Goodison and Anfield in the same frame. This would have given an impressive shot surely unique in world football: two huge English clubs within spitting distance of one another in this world famous football-centric city. An opportunity, or so one would have thought, to highlight one of the many features that make Liverpool so different. Given that the main premise of the program was to demonstrate the unique nature of Liverpool as a city, why was this potent illustration not used when the opportunity was clearly there to do so.? Sayle was asked at one point where his loyalties lay to which he hastily snapped ’neutral’. He did mention the cities ’clubs’ - plural - once, but this was his only acknowledgment of the existence of another club in the city. Other than that it was shots of Anfield and people wandering around the city centre in Liverpool scarves - with not one single blue in sight. That’s actually quite hard to do. The program was meant to be a serious investigation into the culture of Liverpool. Intimatiing by exclusion that football passions begin and end with the red s****undermined the credibility of the journalism and reduced it to a propaganda postcard. If Sayle, who I thought was quite funny in the 80’s, choses to broadcast rubbish that’s up to him, but who at the BBC decided it should be at our expense?
Danny Naylor
46   Posted 17/06/2008 at 16:28:11

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Jay Harris
- Again I havent defended the board over this, I?ve said they aint doing a great job for in the city but outside the city its a tough and bigger world to make the media take interest.

John Lloyd -

Exactly, which I what I?ve said before, we need to push this.
Clive Bailey
47   Posted 17/06/2008 at 17:08:50

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I didn’t watch the Alexei Sayle TV programme. The reason was the Guardian’s TV guide which introduced it with the following: "For Londoners, being born within the sound of St Mary-le-Bow church bells is said to bequeath instant cockneydom. For Liverpudlians, scouseness is achieved through a proximity to Anfield’s Kop end......". So, there you have it, Evertonians are not scousers even if you happen to have born in the city.
A few days ago I saw the latest Nike advert on TV. It featured Torres. Nothing surprising there, perhaps, but unlike others which have Rooney, Gerrard et al it also featured LFC. I have to draw the conclusion that even if we had Saatchi doing our advertising we’d never even get close to that sort of exposure. I guess that, as other posters have said, without consistent sucess over a number of years we are not going to get any significant exposure.
Trevor Lynes
48   Posted 17/06/2008 at 18:20:10

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Good comments and I can well remember the great sixties and eighties teams.
Ive watched EFC since 1948 and seen them relegated, resurrected and at the pinnacle of football. I genuinely feel sorry for all the young fans who never saw a really great blues team. We were always headline news as the mersey millionaires in John Moores time. Unfortunately this is past glory and it is true unfortunately that money totally dominates the game and lets face it we are the paupers compared to the top four and one or two others who have not been able to keep up with the pace despite their wealth.
We SHOULD be competing every season because we have a great fan base and the club does not invest enough in improvement on the pitch. DM has the role Mother Hubbard....he has a threadbare cupboard...but does wonderfully well with the pittance he gets. We have a dwindling squad having lost McFadden and Carsley when we needed strengthening. We now need replacements for both these players plus at least two more. I think we should have bought Chimbonda as he is a ready made right back and that is one of our weaknesses. He was in the best premier league eleven a couple of seasons ago and he has pace and ability in the air.
I still feel Huddlestone would be a fine acquisition together with a decent wide player who can cross the ball and another midfielder like Arshevin...someone who can control the ball and pass.
I truly hope to see a real challenge from the blues this coming season and being an optimist helps !!!!
David Wallbank
49   Posted 17/06/2008 at 18:20:47

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Danny Naylor: I?m not sure saying Everton don?t have a marketing plan is correct.

Media wise we aren?t the best, as probably only 3-4 clubs in the prem do marketing correctly (backed by mega bucks!)

I think using Moyes?s ?People?s Club? propaganda phrase was done very well!

I also think PR wise our connections with CHANG and the money invested and raised to help the victims of the diaster a few years back. Helping rebuild small communities. Also we was the star prize for ?Football prince? a show in china watched by over a 80million people (not sure if you know but we have a kid on the books who won a reality TV show and has got the chance to join the kids at everton for a year, I think he?s 16-17)

(ANYWAY)I?m not sure what your trying to say Danny? Maybe coming on a site trying to sound like the guy with all the answers isn?t the thing to do. Maybe if you share some of your marketing ideas and justify them financially as well giving us a timeline on the benifits of putting your plan in place? I agree it needs to be better!

Also I watched the first 2 parts of the alexi sayle bbc doc, and to be honest he isn?t a football fan. He also missed a great opportunity to look at both sets of fans together (1986 cup final side by side and all that shite!!) But the show has really only had about 2 mins worth of football in it. SO I wouldn?t lose to much sleep over it!
Dave Wilson
50   Posted 17/06/2008 at 19:33:38

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Bully was asked at the AGM
"Does the club have any plans to project itself in connection with Liverpool capital of culture organisation 2008, to highten the clubs profile at a time when an increasing number of outsiders seem to look upon LFC as the city’s footballing flag bearers"

He answered

"We have worked very hard with the capital of culture organisation to get something in place for 2008, had specific ideas, but these needed funding which has not been forthcoming"


Liverpool on the other hand, climbed all over the Capital of culture gravy train
Sick of this bollocks about having to finish in the top 4 to get news coverage,

Ken Bates - who’s club didnt even make the championship - made more headlines with one day in court, than we could muster all season
Jimmy Fearns
51   Posted 17/06/2008 at 20:47:26

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Has anyone else noticed that you never see Keith Wyness and Alexie Sayle together?
Roy Coyne
52   Posted 17/06/2008 at 21:56:48

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First, Danny Naylor, point taken. I admit when talking about United I often referred to them as the Mancs, I will refrain in future.

Dick Fearon mate you're wrong or there are a large amount of people lying know who I believe and it's not the chairman who has been found out uttering plenty of falsehoods or his untrustworthy employee. If in doubt about him check what the good people of Aberdeen think.

As for that prick Sayle he is just one in a long line of professional Scousers like Tarbuck and Black. I would never allow them on my TV while I can switch over or off and the council have every right to be annoyed with Everton as Bill led them on a goose chase never ever having the Ring fenced money I believe he called it.

Dave Wilson spot on mate good post but as is often said there are none as blind as them that see.

Jason Lam
53   Posted 18/06/2008 at 04:57:00

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Trophies or a player cemented in the England first-11.

Or sign Steven Gerrard.

Danny Naylor
54   Posted 18/06/2008 at 08:31:46

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David Wallbank -

I never said they don't have a marketting plan. They obviously do, its just hard for most media outlets to take notice in football when other clubs are bigger.

I?ve never said I had a marketting plan etc - I was just responding to a post that mentioned we should throw money at everything and use bully tatics to make the media listen, which I mentioned only gets you a little, maybe nowhere because they wont listen due to the nature of bigger clubs and better stories in football.

Actually I do have a marketting plan, as do a lot of other people who posted on here who?ve mentioned - be successful on the pitch. Works wonders.
Ray Roche
55   Posted 18/06/2008 at 09:30:53

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Danny Naylor

Isn?t us referring to UTD as "The Mancs" no different to them (or you) calling the RS "The Scousers"? Aren?t we scousers too?
Danny Naylor
56   Posted 18/06/2008 at 10:53:25

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Ray Roche - danny naylor

"Isn?t us referring to UTD as "The Mancs" no different to them (or you) calling the RS "The Scousers"? Aren?t we scousers too?"

Eh? Why you pulling me up about that? I dont know. It was someone else (a city fan) not liking the fact I called UTD "Mancs" because he felt City are the true "Mancs" of Manchester (worthy of the term etc not UTD). I was just apoligising if I caused offence.
Paul Lally
57   Posted 18/06/2008 at 10:34:09

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Go to -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/complaints/multistageform3.pl

This is the BBC complaint page.

1st programme aried 13th June 08 - Alexie Sayle’s Liverpool. BBC 2

We own the BBC and standards have to adhered to - fair and unbiased journalism for one.
This programme was an absolute disgrace.
He is actually quoted in January 08 as saying that if you were born within the sound of Anfield you are a true scouser as per the Bow Bells in London re cockneys.
Unbelieveable.
Complain and try to ensure this ’never’ funny so called alternative comic is not allowed to spout his biased shite on the BBC again.
The BBC should be brought to task for employing this idiot when they could have chosen someone with a brain who could have created an important and lasting piece of work in the city’s Capital of Culture year.
Paul Lally
58   Posted 18/06/2008 at 11:19:41

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One more thing - Alexie Sayle 2003 Edinburgh Festival -

’Comedian Alexei Sayle has apologised to the people of Liverpool after he made inappropriate remarks about the town. At his new book launch at the Edinburgh Festival, Sayle made the comment: "The sentimentality in Liverpool is compounded by both Heysel and Hillsborough, you know. Liverpool people are so sentimental anyway and even more so with this - oh, we’re the greatest people and you’ll never walk alone...and all this shite."

Naturally this caused offence and distress to many people in the town, not least the families of the victims of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

Sayle apologised for the comment, but claimed that it was not intended as a joke, and instead was intended to demonstrate the suffering of one of the characters in his new book.

He also upset Liverpudlians by mocking Liverpools selection as the ’European Capital of Culture 2008.

You would think the BBC would have thought twice about employing this moron.
Joe McMahon
59   Posted 18/06/2008 at 11:27:10

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Guys i’ve got it all sussed. All we have to do is advertise that our players eat Nike Cereal for breakfast. Then waer Nike Socks, trainers, trackie bottoms (tucked into the socks) Of couse a relica football shirt that cost £60, with the Nike emblem on the front. Then sit in front of the TV turn on Sky, listen to the pundits masterbate all over Man U & Liverpool (ignoring the fact that they are American owned whilst banging on about tradition).

If having more exposure means being part of that culture, then I don’t want it. City of culture??? Naw we are Everton, I prefer Alpen in the morning.
Roger Trenwith
60   Posted 18/06/2008 at 12:09:08

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Couldn’t agree more about the RS bias of all footie refernces in Sayle’s programme. Given that he is not, as far as I know, a footie fan, then this bias must have come from above. Perhaps the director is a RS?

Although I was born in Liverpool, and have been a Blue since 1969/70, our family moved away from the city when I was a kid.

I have not been able to get to games with any regularity in the last 15 years or so, but follow the Blues on TV whenever they appear.

I am planning a visit to the city later this year, what with it being European City of Culture, and I thought I would take in the guided tour of Goodison, while it’s still there!

Having read comments on other threads in the past about how crap the tour is, would it be worth my time taking the tour, given that all it might lead to would be a sense of disappointment, and a feeling of being let down by the guardians of our great club.
Charlie Fitzpatrick
61   Posted 18/06/2008 at 15:49:34

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It suits the board that we don’t have any profile in the city, it is the board’s fault we don’t have a profile in the city, the board do not want us to have a profile in the city. Regardless of how inept LCC is, if Everton had the desire to be treated as equal to lfc by lcc we would have been, the board over the years, didn’t want to know, we should have seen it coming with the closure of the shop in Central Station. Let’s face up to the fact that as far as the board are concerned we no longer belong to this city. Its no use us writing on here moaning about it we need to make our feelings known, i for one am not renewing my season ticket in protest at the negligent way this club is run, i dare the rest of you to do the same, so you all know, i am not for or against Kirkby, i want this whole board out, if that means some dodgy oligarch buying the club great as long as its run properly, i have no confidence in this board or the shareholders and it breaks my heart to see the way they have dragged this club down, its time it all stopped
Christine Foster
62   Posted 19/06/2008 at 03:39:06

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Oh how I have bitten my tongue. Charlie Fitzpatrick. I couldn’t have said it any better than that. There are issues with this club that are far deeper than where we will play, but the focus is there because its the wrong call.
The board of this club apparently have no interest in keeping the club in the city, nor in being associated with it.
Its about time they realised that this club has its past, present and future in Liverpool and do something about it instead of dodge the questions and make excuses.
Competent board? I’d love one because its been a long time since EFC had one.
Mike Owen
63   Posted 19/06/2008 at 13:15:24

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I too was irked by the absence of the word Everton in the first two programmes (did I miss a mention?). If St John and Aldridge are on the third, one of them may ironically be the first person to mention us.

But this is only another symptom of a wider and increasing problem, but to some extent we have only ourselves to blame, e.g., no club presence in the city centre.

You can argue about the profitability element of a retail outlet. But is it too much to ask to get the new kit out before July? Which would lead to a lot more people walking round the city centre in it.

We even get beat in the superlambananas 3-1, EFC and LFC have one at their own ground, but they have two in the city centre - us none.

But back to the Sayle series. While I found the first two moderately interesting and entertaining, I got the impression it definitely was written by a fella who left the city decades ago - and so I suspect he was relying on a few researchers or contacts/old mates who just threw up a list of names from the Echo, e.g., hairdresser Herbert and several of their columnists.

If this series is a serious take on Liverpool today, the third show should show us Sayle bounding up to a gang of teenage lads on a street corner in the outer districts of the city and asking: "Well, lads, what do you think of the Capital of Culture then?"

Leon Bronstein
64   Posted 19/06/2008 at 14:10:35

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It is interesting that Alexei Sayle’s airbrushing of Everton out of history has been described here as ’Stalinist’, as Sayle really is (I’m not joking) an avowed Stalinist himself.

Having been airbrushed out of the picture, Everton could be described as the Trotskys of Merseyside.

If Everton are Trotsky, and Alexei Sayle is the airbrush, then I suppose Destination Kirkby is the icepick.
Tony Williams
65   Posted 19/06/2008 at 15:16:51

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I had the Trotskys the other week after drinking too much Guinness.
Jonathan Tasker
66   Posted 19/06/2008 at 17:17:30

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I watched some of the first programme and thought it was so shite that I didn’t bother watching the other 2. The way he didn’t mention Everton was annoying and embarrassing.

It’s definitely worth complaining to the BBC if they put out rubbish like Alexei Sayle’s programme. You could see why’s not often on telly.
Graham Brandwood
67   Posted 19/06/2008 at 22:54:49

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The best way to increase our profile within the city is to build a stadium at a location that is visible to the whole of the population of the city region, and to visitors to our city. The Kings Dock was a missed opportunity as it would have trumped Liverpool FC and actively encouraged the youngsters of our city to go and support our Club. If the loop is posible then any extra cost compared to Kirkby would soon be wiped out with the higher attendances and increased demand for corporate hospitality at such a high profile, highly visible location.

If we are not to have a well located stadium then we need to build something else in the city centre that all the visitors and future supporters cannot miss. we should not be too proud of climbing on LFC?s shirtails. At present they have a massive presence in the city. We should have a shop in view of theirs so that the next time I speak with a visiting fan from anouther country in Williamson Square I don?t have to spend my time trying to explain were EFC fits into the local football scene, but he is attracted to go in learn for himself, buy some memorabilia, and maybe go away with Everton being his English based club.

I know from my visit to Barcelona that my visit to the Olympic Stadium has given me some interest in Espanyol that I did not have before. I will in future show more interest in them when I see them on the TV. The club has to do more to promote our club within the city. I do?t think the media can do any more at the moment.

Mike Owen
68   Posted 20/06/2008 at 13:53:24

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My one visit to Barcelona also led to me taking an interest in Espanyol

Obvious parallels in them being the less well known club, the less successful over the last 40 years and not carrying the name of the city.

But it seems they sometimes bear the name Espanyol de Barcelona, or something like that; don’t know how new that is, or to what extent.
I would not advocate Everton of Liverpool, but I do believe we should think about a blue liver bird.

But Espanyol certainly seem to be trying to tap into the British market, possibly on the back of the huge tourist numbers visiting their city, for example:
1) Their website, or parts of it, are in English as well as Spanish.
2) Recently they have started a mailing list/messageboard thingy for Brits.

And, err, they are building a new stadium, although I don’t know to what extent it’s city centro or Kirkbio.
Alan Ross
69   Posted 21/06/2008 at 01:46:50

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I’ve done the rounds of a few official premiership websites and a few in the lower divisions ’cos quite frankly I wondered if Everton were the norm.(disappointingly bland). Even Cardiff is more interesting. I can only summise that a clubs’ website reflects their interest in their fanbase. Draw your own conclusions from that.
Graham Brandwood
70   Posted 21/06/2008 at 16:05:17

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Mike, I can?t find the exact location but it seems that it is on the outskirts in the direction of the airport. It will be a 40,000 all seater. Sort of goes against my city centre is best argument, but we don't know were the Espanyol supoerters come from. They may pick up there support predominently from that side of town so it might not make a great difference.
Dave Wilson
71   Posted 22/06/2008 at 19:36:43

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I too took an interest in Espanyol, to be honest I’d actually forgot there was another football team in the City, it was only when visiting the Palace at Montjuic that I realised the olympic stadium was so close, I thought the stadium was magnificent and I’m really surprised they would even consider playing elsewhere

What is it with this moving lark ?
Peter McArdle
72   Posted 23/06/2008 at 18:46:45

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Dick Fearon
"According to the No voters Kirkby is going to be a dismal failure so why in hells name are so many business houses, councils and county road drinkers terrified that it will happen?"
I think you’re lumping together the wrong groups Dick.The business people and the councils are worried about Tesco having a huge store there.If,by "County Rd. drinkers" you mean Evertonians,then it’s quite obvious why they’re worried.I doubt any Evertoian gives two fucks about where Tesco build a store but they care about moving Everton to Kirkby.
Richard Griffiths
73   Posted 24/06/2008 at 12:34:15

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Great scouser that he was, Sir John Moores was born in Salford.

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