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Desperate Dave

By Tony Marsh :  30/11/2010 :  Comments (78) :
I can't believe we still have fans who lap up this shite week after week. I am so confused. Is this or is this not the best team/squad we have had since the 80s? If so... what the fuck is going wrong?

Moyes and Round are killing the passion of the fans and the soul of the club. They have turned us in to a team of sterile negative shitehouses. So much so that we now think getting draws at home to newly promoted clubs is a result.

I hate what we have become. I hate the fact that Moyes is so scared of his own inability that we worry more about not getting beat than we do about winning. Newcastle, West Brom and god knows who else just stroll in to Goodison and take the piss. All Moyes can do is shove bits of paper under his strikers' noses as they warm up.

Why can't Moyes and Round figure out that they have been sussed out big time? Everyone of us knows what to expect on matchdays. We all know the mind-numbing tactics and formations that will be used so why the fuck does Moyes think the opposition won't know?

When was the last time we gave another side a good hiding? When was the last time we tried something new on the pitch, even from a corner or free kick? The answer is never ? we just do the same tired and worn out shite that we always do. I'm sick to fucking death of it.

It's getting so hard to drag my weary carcass through the gates at Goodison Park these days... It's a chore watching the dross being churned out. We must all be idiots to have put up with it for so long.

Moyes, and his sidekick Round, have been cruelly exposed this season. The dour negative approach has now transmitted itself through to the players and it's like a disease spreading throughout the club. Even the hardcore fans have become uninterested and apathetic. It's a big worry.

Why on earth do we have to start every game with three centre-halves on the pitch? It's a mystery to me... How the fuck can you drop Coleman in favour of Anichebe? Why is Beckford being drained of confidence by only getting 10 minutes here and there? Why do we always play one up front at home to even the crappest of sides? It's a fucking joke... West fucking Brom tore us apart and no one really gives a fuck. WHY????

We need a fresh start and some new ideas. I think we have some decent players but Moyes can't get the best out of them. The strikers at our club look like they have never played football before and it's all down to the pathetic system they are asked to play in. Shake things up or fuck off ? that's what I say.

We can't go through the rest of the season playing like a Sunday League side. It's suicide... all the managers in the Premier League have got Moyes in their pockets. Who the fuck IS Steve Round by the way? Why does he deserve to be pulling the strings at Everton? The pair of them are the worst double act since Mike and Bernie Winters.

Kenwright must be kicking himself for giving the Ginger Whinger that bumper salary. There's no way he can sack him so he will just have to back him. £75k a week for what? A Derby win at Goodison every few seasons and a gutsy display every few seasons against the Mancs ? that's what for.

No passion, no hunger, no desire, and no football. That's the legacy Moyes will leave behind one day. We are no better off now than we were when Moyes came. We are a bottom 6 side again, playing the most awful football ever seen. That's the truth of the matter.

Oh God... who wants to bet me that Scunthorpe koock us out of the FA Cup next round? If that happens, which I think it will, Moyes should fall on his sword. He won't though ? he is shithouse and will carry on with his head up his arse.

Don't you just love being an Idiot, pouring your dosh down the shitter, watching this crap? We are all being conned by Deadly Dave and there are plenty out there who could do a far better job. Will they ever get a chance though?

Reckon Moyes would keep his job, even if he took us down. Kenwright is that fucking daft enough to do it.

Reader Comments

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Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
1   Posted 30/11/2010 at 20:25:41

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Ah! ? some classic Marsh Mallets to lighten up the day and the mood...

Welcome back, Tony!
Stephen Kenny
2   Posted 30/11/2010 at 20:35:27

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Deadly Dave, if only he were. I'm resigned to a very long, hard season. I can't see us doing anything in the cup either TBH.
Chris Jones
3   Posted 30/11/2010 at 20:38:55

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Where the fuck have you been? Normally I disagree with most of what you say TM but to be fair you're dead right.

"Even the hardcore fans have become uninterested and apathetic. It's a big worry." ? couldn't agree more.
Gerry Morrison
4   Posted 30/11/2010 at 20:48:40

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Welcome back! One of your diatribes usually starts a run of four or five wins.
Tony Cheek
5   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:04:42

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Hope every Everton fan reads this........brill!!!

Anyone want to start a "Moyes must go" facebook group?

Peter Laing
6   Posted 30/11/2010 at 20:59:19

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Tony Marsh, where have you been? ? I see that David Moyes has made your Tourettes even worse and you probably have developed a twitch not seen since the Police commander from the Pink Panther movies.

Couldn't agree more with your assessment, I too find the prospect and experience of attending Goodison Park these days a mind-numbing chore. Even the pubs around the Ground are lacking the usual buzz due to the current malaise that is sucking the lifeblood out of the club and the depressing doom and gloom that is permeating the Club.

I missed the Arsenal game due to the fact that I just couldn't be arsed and will be seriously considering ditching my £600 plus outlay each season for a shite and obstructed seat in the Upper Bullens.

Ryan Holroyd
7   Posted 30/11/2010 at 20:46:38

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I agree with a few things you say and this season has been very frustrating.

Personally I'm finding it hard to go to Goodison as we are in a league we can't win, we have a lying scumbag of a Chairman who has not provided the manager with even a mid-table budget.

I don't agree with your assessment of not dropping Coleman. Against Sunderland, Bolton and Arsenal their left backs have had him in their pocket. He needed to be taken out for a few games in my opinion.

Like many Evertonians, I have questioned David Moyes and at times I have wanted him to be sacked or for him to walk away. I think even the David Moyes fan club will accept that he has made some serious errors of judgement lately.

I've found myself questioning his perceived cautiousness so I have looked at a few stats and have found some interesting things.

Moyes's Everton have accumulated the 5th most points in the league in his time in charge (8 years) and, over the last 4 years, have a better goal difference than anyone but Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool and have scored more goals than them and Spurs.

This with the 15th biggest net spend and the 11th lowest wage budget.

All this, ' there are plenty out there who could do a far better job' may not be strictly true.

People might say 'it is the here and now we need to look at' but say Moyes walked/sacked and we got in someone like Coyle in. What if he struggles, do we then call for him to be sacked?

For me we need to sell Heitinga, Bily, Saha, Pienaar and Yakubu and get players who want to be at the club in. Too many players are going through the motions. Yes, the manager needs to get his act together but let's also have the players and shithouse Bill taking a hard look at themselves.

Maybe as fans we also need to accept we are a mid-table club (in terms of our ground, our sponsorship deals), who have been punching above our weight for a few seasons now.

Gerry Western
8   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:15:21

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Tony, agree with pretty much most of what you say. I'm still trying to get my head around Moyes attitude to Coleman. We've had no one do anything of note wide right for longer than I can remember. Then, along comes Coleman to introduce a bit of dynamism. His reward is he's shipped back to defensive duties or subbed or left on the bench whilst Moyes toy's with the idea of playing others in that position although their totally unsuited.

Saha is ducking out in every game and enjoys Moyes unbridled support. I've a lot of sympathy for Beckford he looks as though he's carrying the world on his shoulders. However, unlike Saha he never shirks an opportunity and will make an effort to get on the end of things yet he gets pilloried

It's high time Moyes had a go at those who simply aren't pulling their weight, although I agree, it may well be the case that the players have given up on him. If that proves to be the case then I suspect we might all be in for a long and painful divorce.

I'm so despondent I can barely bring myself to comment on TW these days.
Dave Lynch
9   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:22:23

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Welcome back Mr Marsh.

I find it incredible that Round has ended up at Everton. Every team he has been involved with has been relegated if memory serves me right. Derby and Newcastle are two that spring to mind.
Alan Clarke
10   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:34:20

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The apathy amongst Everton fans makes us as guilty as Moyes in all of this.

If we're as fucked off with all of this as we say we are, then why don't we try and do something? I say we boycott the next home game. Most of us are struggling to find the enthusiasm to go anyway so if no fans turn up (just for 1 game) it'll show Moyes and Kenwright how sick of their shit we are.

Dave Lynch
11   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:36:52

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The problem is, Alan, you have a new breed of footy fan, the Sky generation. They are not used to seeing us win things, believe the shite Sky spew out, and think Soccer AM is an intelligent football programme.

They are happy with survival.

Brian Waring
12   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:38:51

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Tony, I've been in need of a pick-me-up, and you have give it to me, Welcome back, mate.

ps ? I agree with everything you say.
Mike McLean
13   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:42:35

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Really pleased to see you, Tony.

And yes, you're right.
Steve Guy
14   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:40:28

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I don't think you can claim we don't care given the number of mailbag contributions and articles slamming our current plight. You make some good points in amongst the unnecessary foul language but let yourself down as usual by slagging off your fellow supporters.
Christopher McCullough
15   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:47:43

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Why do some Evertonians take some sort of snobbish, perverse consolation in portraying their pain and disappointment as somehow more acute than others. Wise up.

Yes, Coleman should have started the last game.
John Maxwell
16   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:36:12

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Haha, what a good read...

This is no defence of our current regime, but who the heck would want to come and manage us?

We don't have any money to spend and expectations are to finish in the top 4?

To hear people call for Coyle and Di Matteo makes me cringe, just because they are having a few good games doesn't mean they become great managers over night.... I've read it on here before, Mike Newell, Phil Brown have been mentioned before, I mean come on.... I thought we were supposed to be knowledgeable fans!?

I agree with Ryan #7, we are a mid-table club who have had a few good seasons knocking on the door of the CL. That unfortunately is the sad reality of it all... Moyes is way too cautious with a "don't lose at all costs" mentality and Kenwright doesn't have any money...

What the fix is... well that's a tough one, would you invest your money in Everton?
David Holroyd
17   Posted 30/11/2010 at 21:37:40

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Are we as fans getting what we deserve? Goodison was like a morgue until Arteta got sent off. The football we are being served up is rubbish but it's not all Moyes's fault. The players like Heitinga Saha and Yakubu should be shipped out. The Yak had been, shall we say, rested for a while but Saturday he just could not be arsed Heitinga was just crap ? don't play him again. Not all Moyes's fault but he is supposed to motivate... if he can't do that, he should Fuck Off and take Twat Round with him as he doesn't offer anything.
Yusuf Bobat
18   Posted 30/11/2010 at 22:40:31

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Welcome back, agree with everything you said.

Time for a change!

Moyes OUT!!!
Dick Fearon
19   Posted 30/11/2010 at 22:27:44

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I have been banging on about Round many times, wondering what he brings to the table. For the first ever time I saw any kind of animation from him was during the West Brom game. Usually he gives every appearance of a block of wood with a head set.

If he is supposed to be some kind of master tactician then he has a lot to answer for. If he is supposed to be a great fitness coach, how come we are the slowest least mobile team in the league? Is he supposedly a brilliant motivator? same as above.

As a Moyes clone, he most definitely is. That being the case, we can hardly expect any new ideas from him.

By the way, welcome back Tony, you old bastard.

Ryan Holroyd
20   Posted 30/11/2010 at 22:51:42

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I'd also like to point out that against Blackburn, Villa, Wolves, Bolton, Fulham, Stoke and Manchester United we had more possession, and lots more shots on and off target than all them teams with only 5 points to show for it.

Dropped points because of poor individual mistakes (Howard, Heitinga) and a lack of a forward who can score goals (Beckford, Yak and Saha only one goal between them).

Not trying to be an "apologist" ? just attempting to strike a balance.

Anyway, Kenwright needs to be gone so we get the finances to compete with teams spending millions each year.

Jamie Sweet
21   Posted 30/11/2010 at 23:17:57

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TONY! I thought you were dead man!

I think what you will find that in your long absence, many more supporters have caught up with your way of thinking.

Let's be honest, much of the above could have been copied and pasted from articles you wrote 18 months ago and more. I can tell you now though, you will have far less people telling you to fuck off this time round than you did back then (I was one of them).

The tide is turning. I'm in danger of becoming a Marsh apologist!
Gerry Western
22   Posted 30/11/2010 at 23:29:40

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Ryan, I remember WBA going down under Mowbrey and the glowing comments from all the pundits as to the neat passing game they played. Lots of possession, no real cutting edge and a tendency to shift poor goals at the other end. Pretty much the story of our season so far...
Andy Crooks
23   Posted 01/12/2010 at 00:21:09

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I agree with what you say, Tony, but why have you waited so long to say it? Were you not as gutted during the summer as some of us?

Gerry Western, the point you make is pertinent and disconcerting.

Jay Harris
24   Posted 01/12/2010 at 00:21:49

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Marshie, where have you been, mate?

So many people on here have missed you despite some of the flack you faced from some quarters.

My view is that Kenwright has had us in decline for years, particularly with the Kirkby bullshit, but team spirit and fan support has kept us where we didn't belong.

My fear now is that all that goodwill towards Moyes and the players is evaporating at a rapid rate of knots and Goodison has become a morgue again.

So not only have Kenwright, Green, Earl, Elstone and Moyes lost the plot ? they have also lost the fans.

Pleased to hear you're still going to Goodison and hope you stay on board ToffeeWeb.

Whether people agree with you or not, you always speak from the heart and I for one am really pleased you're back.
Ernie McAllister
25   Posted 01/12/2010 at 01:18:13

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Alan Clarke ? No it won't, because neither Moyes nor Kenwright give a rat's arsehole.

Moyse is totally inept. Funny how we are able to finish 5th or 6th with a bare-bone squad that has to pick itself, and we end up in the shit with a bigger squad because he doesn't know who to pick or where to play them.

It would be interesting to see when we've finished near the bottom under Moyes just how big a squad we had... the last time I think we finished near the bottom, we still had a ton of deadwood at the club.

Everton fans I have found over the last decade have resigned themselves to the drivel due to the party line ? we have no money excuse time and again.

If it was only that, then I'd be the first to defend Moyes.

However, the continuous mistake David makes is amateurish... he can't change tactics on the fly, simply hasn't got a clue how to... he only makes subs after the opposition scores.

He sets up defensively every single game... to the extreme point of making sure players are out of position... so we can play defensively.

For strikers at Everton, it's a graveyard, much like defensively for Spurs. Everton are in a real mess, and clearly he has lost the support of the players.

Moyes's attitude about Pienaar is shocking to say the least. He awards Arteta a 5-year deal on £75-odd grand a week, which to me as really pissed all the other players off no end.

Moyes can't even get the basics right. He is tactically clueless... can't instill confidence, plays his players out of position constantly.

Owen Coyle needs to be brought in... sorry it's time for Moyes to go, we keep him and I can see us going down. I just can't for the life see where the next win is coming from. No-one on the pitches gives a shit, it's pretty clear to me.
Ernie McAllister
26   Posted 01/12/2010 at 01:44:40

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David Holroyd ? How can you say this isn't Moyes's fault, then attempt to weakly defend him?

He is completely guilty of the most severe crime.

He is inept, he simply doesn't have a clue how to pick a team, let alone put players into a role they can actually play in.

Sorry but no, we are in the crapper because of him, his mistakes and a number of other factors... you play Heitinga in midfield... and suddenly the team are operating with 10 men. Shove Fellaini up in the advanced role he can't play in and it's 9 men... shocking!
Jamie Crowley
27   Posted 01/12/2010 at 01:50:10

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Tony ? thrilled your back. Please don't disappear again. If this site has turned into my personal heroine, you were the original drug dealer!

Fantastic read. Been missing that brutally honest, cutting edge viewpoint.
Jason Lam
28   Posted 01/12/2010 at 06:48:06

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Thanks Tony. Just in time for the Chrismas Cheer.
Derek Thomas
29   Posted 01/12/2010 at 07:42:19

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With a few exceptions (me and a few others) you used to be a voice in the wilderness.

Now you (and us) are just one of many, even Doddy has seen, what for him, is the light.

Says it all really.

(Moyes), Deadman walking, walking the Blue mile, deadman walking here.

Jon Beck
30   Posted 01/12/2010 at 08:57:44

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"WE CAN'T ALL BE WRONG"! ? I'm not so sure Derek, but time will tell.

Nice to see you back, Tony, how we missed you when Everton were playing joined-up, attacking football. Now, it seems, your disciples need you.

Ryan (No 7) some interesting facts, not that such things carry much weight in a pity party. I must say I am finding turning up at Goodison a chore these days, but more so because of the negativity surrounding me. The performance on Saturday was shocking by fans and the players alike. Still preferable to reading opinions on threads like these, I think I'll stick to the news articles and Ken's reports until results improve or the blood letting so many want is over and done with.

Richard Dodd
31   Posted 01/12/2010 at 09:16:45

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Welcome back, Marshy! No doubt you waited until things got really bad before showing your face again! For all the faults you highlight, Moyes remains our most successful Premier League manager and would be a hard act to replace. I`m positive BB recognises this and will have no thoughts of replacing him, come what may.

I have a sneaking feeling that the West Brom match will soon be looked on as the wake-up call we`ve been waiting for.

Laurie Hartley
32   Posted 01/12/2010 at 08:50:46

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Welcome back, Tony. I haven't felt this bad since Bolton turned us over 4-1 at Goodison a few years ago.

We are so clueless at the moment I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel. We are in serious trouble. Our only hope of getting out of this is that the fighting spirit of a few of our players ? Neville, Cahill, and Pienaar will lift the performance of the other players who care about the club ? otherwise its good night nurse.

Colin Potter
33   Posted 01/12/2010 at 09:41:38

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Welcome back, Tony ? I agree with everything you say, apart from the Scunthorpe bit. We'll batter them unmercifully... one-nil!
David Hallwood
34   Posted 01/12/2010 at 10:39:53

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Everyone's a genius in hindsight! Are these the same posters who this time last year, were shouting "Offer Arteta anything he wants, losing him will be a disaster", and the almost unanimous verdict of TW was that if it?s a choice between Pienaar & Arteta, then it?s no contest, Arteta all the time. And if Moyes had sold Arteta, there would have been an avalanche of criticism of the decision. ? What a difference a year makes.

I know stats don?t win football matches, but we have the most touches in the opposition box and the past pass completion in the opponents half outside of Arsenal, therefore for me it?s a statement of the bleedin? obvious that our problem lies with the strikers ? two goals between the three of them tells its own tale.

BTW we are not talking about duffers or Championship players (Beckford apart) but talented strikers, on fabulous contracts. The Yak, one of the most prolific marksmen in the history of the Prem; what?s happened to him? Saha, just about everyone in football has the same opinion that on his day, he?s better than anyone around ? except he currently looks like football?s an unpleasant diversion from spending all that cash.

Furthermore, don?t give me that crap about Moyes doesn?t know how to motivate them, they aren?t 18-year-old kids that need guidance but seasoned professionals, that should at least be playing for their professional pride let alone the blue jersey.

Oh and welcome back Tony, and it?s a timely reminder that the few times I?ve watched Glen Beck from Fox News, I say to myself we Brits wouldn?t tolerate the shite he comes out with, that we have our own version of Mr Beck.

Kevin Hudson
35   Posted 01/12/2010 at 11:57:26

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"Desperate Dave," were my exact thoughts when he tried (and failed) to whore us out to Brand Beckham. It smacked of Ginola!
Dave Richman
36   Posted 01/12/2010 at 11:01:16

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Comment of the season so far...... "The pair of them are the worst double act since Mike and Bernie Winters." LOL is used far too often, but that had me laughing out loud.

Tony Cheek #5: A great idea.... BUT prepare to be sworn at, called every name under the sun .... example being some guy referring to anyone who wants Moyes to go as "a bunch of feckin eejits".

I have about 800 Evertonian friends on Facebook and the vast majority (in excess of 95% I reckon) toe the party line and spout the usual nonesense. In fact, some of them are STILL referring to this situation as part of 'the usual bad start'. Exactly when a 'bad start' stops being a start is beyond me if they're saying stuff like that after 15 games!!!!!!

Now obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it's for that reason that I don't get involved in rows and things, but I do feel that the vast bulk of the FB crew are youngsters (compared to me anyway) and have therefore never been exposed to success. For anyone to remember our last championship you'd have to be at the very least about 27 years old..... so it's what you are used to I suppose.

Also I am sick to death of the '.... well who would you bring in' debate.

Firstly, it ain't my job to nominate the new manager.

Secondly, there must be thousands of coaches out there..... if not hundreds of thousands. Yet, according to most, it seems David Moyes is the ONLY coach on the planet suited for the Blues. Bollocks!!!!!!
Michael Evans
37   Posted 01/12/2010 at 12:32:37

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Welcome back Tony

Your voice is a much needed catalyst to hopefully wake up those that still seem blinded to the parlous state that Everton are in.

Aiden Jones
38   Posted 01/12/2010 at 12:29:07

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Moyes is a manager - not a coach.
Tony J Williams
39   Posted 01/12/2010 at 12:33:17

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Ahhh the Tony Marsh love-in. It makes great reading.
Eugene Ruane
40   Posted 01/12/2010 at 13:08:49

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James Stewart
41   Posted 01/12/2010 at 13:12:16

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Spot on!
Jay Harris
42   Posted 01/12/2010 at 13:28:56

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still wearing those slightly less than rose tinted specs I see.

I hope you're right but we've had more potential turning points than the M25 and the players just dont seem to have the appetite this season.
Mike Allison
43   Posted 01/12/2010 at 14:05:46

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Bit of an odd love in. The guy's been moaning and whingeing for years, now suddenly because we're not getting results he's the Messiah?

I'm reminded of the fact that a stopped clock is right twice a day. Say the same shit over and over again and eventually at some point you'll be right.
Terry Downes
44   Posted 01/12/2010 at 14:47:46

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Welcome back, Mr Marsh ? 'bout time you came back, you've been sorely missed.

Peter Anthony
45   Posted 01/12/2010 at 15:16:51

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Why waste your breath Marshy, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference, other than for us melancholy blues to wallow in the depression of your rants...

What a sad, literally, fucking lot we are... Cheers, Davey, you negative fooker!

ps: Now James Vaughan seems fit, is he not a better bet than Beckford... he is younger and has more Prem experience AND can hit a fucking barn door!

Robert Daniels
46   Posted 01/12/2010 at 16:32:10

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Mr Marsh,

Well said, sir.

You forgot to mention overprotecting Rodwell?

Snorbitz has obviously got big plans for him come January, or the summer.
Kevin Hudson
47   Posted 01/12/2010 at 16:23:39

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Richard Dodd you're like a moth to the flame! The PROPAGANDA you insidiously spout doesn't wash anymore.It actually is time for Moyes to go. There are parallels to be drawn with Smith:

The league table.The one-dimensional football.The wafer-thin defence.The "strikers." The square pegs.The body-language.The stale tactics. The desperate punt on a 35 year-old has-been. The fragile confidence of the goalkeeper. The growing disenchantment of once-supportive fans. The want-away players. The stench of crisis. The cyclic zeitgeist that knows when the game's finally up, and finally,the haunted look of a manager bereft of ideas.

We've had "wake-up," calls before, but the alarm clock rarely works against the comatose.

Stop dreaming. It's a nightmare.
Kevin Hudson
48   Posted 01/12/2010 at 16:51:49

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I should add that I have loved having Moyes as our manager. I am immensly proud of him too.

But these things come to an inevitable & natural conclusion.
Rory Slingo
49   Posted 01/12/2010 at 17:06:15

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Tony, you're back!

It's like a new signing!

Joseph Strumm
50   Posted 01/12/2010 at 16:53:58

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I've been going the match for 40 years and live in the County Road area,it's a four minute walk and i'm in my seat,i am getting to the stage were i just can't be arsed going because i know we're going to get the same negative half-hearted rubbish,i didn't re-new my season ticket at the end of last season because i could see that too many of our squad had peaked and that DMs cosy relationship with Kenwright meant he wasn't about to tell Bill that it was time for a clear out and it was obvious to me that they were going to try and muddle through the season with an ailing squad.

We have been going backwards since we lost to Chelsea in the FA Cup Final,judging by the atmosphere by me on Matchdays(home)our supporters,wether they admit it or not know that this current squad is finished and that it is time for a painful re-build,personally i'd like to see it done by someone other than Moyes,someone who is going to bring back attacking football,which we haven't seen since the Joe Royle days,i'd rather see some of the younger players given a chance now,they can do no worse than our senior players,Cahill,Distin and to some extent Pienaar excepted.

Chris Perry
51   Posted 01/12/2010 at 17:02:29

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Spot on, I posted something similar in September and got slated, but now people are seeing what was seen along time ago, why can't Moyes?
Alex Mather
52   Posted 01/12/2010 at 17:22:33

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As Evertonians we are used to having our optimism stamped upon from a great height by the club... but, this season, even Everton have taken it to new heights. Many times before, the optimism has been slowly sucked away... but not this time: it lasted most of the pre-season, then, when the season started (for me, anyway), it was gone ? and the man most responsible for giving me that optimism in the first place took it away.

This was the best squad of players we had had since the glory days of the 80s and I believed that since I sat through the 90s dross; there was no doubt about it, it is the best squad, player for player, we have had at Everton for many a year. Moyes, the man who had put it together without being given megabucks, was the solution to our long standing problem of being an also-ran; I believed we could crack the top four and maybe more this season... but all that optimism has now evaporated ? and the reason is David Moyes.

I am saying nothing new here ? many now know Moyes is the problem: he doesn?t have any plan B, and that is a disgrace when you consider plan A is shot to bits. The non-movement on the 4-5-1 formation, especially at Goodison, has been found out and the only man who can change it doesn?t know it. He has the best squad he has had since his time here ? well, David, do me a favour and fucking use it!

There are too many players who are simply guaranteed their place, week-in, week-out. Now I make no apology for the way Heitinga has played lately and his shite-spouting about going to a new ?bigger? club... but, to be fair to the lad, when he sees Jagielka getting a game ahead of him at centre-half, he must be well pissed off. Jags has been complete shite this season and the change should have been made weeks ago... but that is where Moyes is the problem ? he won't change, he won't use the best squad he has had since his time here, he won't mix it up and he won't make changes.

Before the matches kick off, everybody knows the script by now... especially at home, where we start 4-5-1. At half-time, it's either 0-0 or we are a goal down; he then waits normally 20 minutes to see if the 4-5-1 can get us back in the game. It doesn?t, so he will make a like-for-like change ? does he mix it up? Does he fuck. No wonder the supporters are turning off ? we know what is going to happen and there isn?t a thing we can do about it. This in turn makes for a terrible atmosphere at Goodison.

We now face Chelsea at the weekend and we all know what formation he will play and we could probably have a good guess at how the game will pan out. None of us expect Moyes to go there and play 4-4-2 and just go for it, like Sunderland did. He again will sit tight and see what Chelsea do. He won't be pro active and spring a surprise. I, for one, really hope he will... but he won't!

With all this going on, the supporters are stuck between wanting Moyes out and sticking with him out of fear; it could all totally unravel if he walks. If he goes, the age-old question: "Who do we get in?"... some names have been mentioned on TW but none get me excited. I personally have no idea who I would like to take over if Moyes goes ? I just know that Moyes was once the solution but right now he is the problem ? but with a slight change in attitude, coupled with using and believing in his squad, he could so easily become the solution again. It's over to you, Dave... but I won't hold my breath. Up the Toffees.

Leon Perrin
53   Posted 01/12/2010 at 17:51:02

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The prodigal returns... was he ever away???
Andy Crooks
54   Posted 01/12/2010 at 18:08:38

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Mike Allison, Tony Marsh goes way over the top at times. Not this time, he is strongly articulating the view of what is becoming a majority. I am glad he has posted again, especially after the utter nonsense that was posted on this site over the summer.

I reckon there are a few sad looking betting slips in the hands of some Evertonians.Amazingly we are only 350/1 to win the title. Multiply that by twenty million and the bookies would still be robbing bastards.

Paul Joy
55   Posted 01/12/2010 at 18:15:39

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Just when you thought things could'nt get any worse:-

The big freeze
The coalition Government
Major cuts
Reality TV shite

? back comes Tony Marsh. Out from under his rock to share his negative views all over again, a bit like a Cliff Richard Xmas song. It all sounds the same, year after year.

I am made up you are back, Marshy; like our team, the posts have been boring without you. Yes, we are garbage ? but you still talk shite. Welcome back, you old moaner.

James I'Anson
56   Posted 01/12/2010 at 18:17:54

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Maybe this is Bill's way of re uniting the fans he split down the middle.
Dave Richman
57   Posted 01/12/2010 at 19:30:52

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It's a bit different when you're on the other side of the world, but this Saturday is the first time IN MY LIFE that I have accepted an invitation to go out somewhere ? and thus will miss the match ? AFTER finding out that the Blues are on live on the telly.
Barry Thompson
58   Posted 01/12/2010 at 20:13:36

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Now that Marshy is back (early release for good behaviour) where the fuck is Joeynkoo ? last seen walking round Birmingham with a big titty lip.
Jon Cox
59   Posted 01/12/2010 at 19:38:36

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Firstly, Tony Marsh, next time you post dont beat about the bush and say what you really mean.

Second welcome back. I dont know about you, and i've said this before but the game I always remember is the game away against Crystal Palace.

It was a game about two or three seasons in and I think we won 3-1.

The way we played that day said to me, this is the Moyes template and with it's dynamism, aggression and shear will to win ism was the way forward.

That was about circa 6 years ago. At the start of this season, and with the latter part of last season I can honestly hold my hand up and say I posted and said that we would, with the squad uninjured, finish at least 3rd.

Wow, was I wrong and am glad i'm not a betting man.

I've said before, that Moyes has gone stale, not sure what it is, it could be one of a multitude of things that our current problem lies.

Now, I'm not saying that this is it but, there's something about Dutch footballers that doesn't hang well in a changing room. Possible?

Anyway if that was the case then Moyes should have stamped on it straight away.

Having said that I wouldn't blame Heitz one bit. As a central defender, played for his country in a world cup final, played in Evertons back four for the most of last season (I think we broke the record for most clean sheets) then I see what Heitz's problem is.

Of course all this has to do with Moyes. He's been in charge, he's done tactics, and at the end of the day, (for his wages) the buck stops with him.

I could go on all day and night about this, but,

A, I want to go out to the spar shop to buy a bottle of wine,


B, the last two words of this post will be,

Slaven Bilic
Jon Cox
60   Posted 01/12/2010 at 21:21:22

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PS slightly off topic.

Putin is not at the World Cup verdict.

That says to me he knows who's got it. It may not be England but he knows.

Plus knowing how bent the Ruskies are it could be them.

Money money money den derm, it's a rich man's world!!!
Steve Guy
61   Posted 01/12/2010 at 21:35:33

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To all the acolytes that have appeared welcoming him back.......he's not the Messiah just a (potty mouthed) naughty boy. He was in the wilderness for nearly a year when we were playing well, ne'er a word. Cries from "the lost" as to where their leader had gone with no response. He re-appears at their time of need with exactly the same diatribe he has written so many times in the past. If you look back over his old articles etc. I think you will see what I mean.
Noel Lynam
62   Posted 01/12/2010 at 21:50:00

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To answer the very first question you pose Tony: "Is this or is this not the best team/squad we have had since the 80s? If so... what the fuck is going wrong?"

Yes, it probably is. But the same can also be said of Man City, Tottenham, Sunderland, Stoke and Birmingham, to name but five.

But all in all, I tend to agree with many of the posts that Moyes and certainly some of the playing staff have gone stale.

Whether the players being that way is a cause of or consequence of Moyes going stale is open to debate. I personally think much of it is down a third party, namely one William Kenwright, and the restrictions imposed on everyone at the club under his regime. But it's not gonna change any time soon ? Moyes and Kenwright are going nowhere (and yes that is a deliberate double entendre!)
Guy Hastings
63   Posted 01/12/2010 at 22:16:22

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'Did you miss me while I was away? Did you hang my picture on the wall?' No.
Jon Cox
64   Posted 01/12/2010 at 22:42:17

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"Moyes and Kenwright are going nowhere (and yes that is a deliberate double entendre!)"

No chance pal. That's not ma double neg. "Don't do no parking here" is...

Get my drift?

Moyes is history. We need someone who knows about attacking football and not playing defence at Goodison. Maybe you are happy with that, but the majority on here arn't.

We dont want this shite week-in, week-out. We want joined-up football and goals at the end... and we want it NOW
Dean Adams
65   Posted 01/12/2010 at 22:57:53

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All I know is, before Moyes arrived, I was happy for us to survive every season and could not wait til we hit the majic 40 points. Many others felt the same.

Then along came Dave, the naughty boy led us into Europe on several occasions and we dared to start dreaming of bigger and better things.

The bubble is being squeezed and now all these miserable bastards still want the earth but not naughty Dave, cos he gave us all this hope and we obviously can't cope with expectations.

Bitter blues is really quite apt at times. We really need to start believing again and then everything will get better.

Tony Marsh
66   Posted 01/12/2010 at 22:57:28

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Steve Guy, the time I spent away from the site had nothing to do with us playing well??? We haven't played well since last March when Donovan left. I just couldn't be arsed slagging or backing Moyes or the club any more. Everton FC gave up on the fans years ago and now some of us are starting to give up on them.

I have tried not to care but it's hard. You always end up wanting more punishment... It's in the blood. I thought, "Why waste my time giving my opinions when so many didn't want to listen?"

So many thought Moyes was the real deal... I just think he is a fraud.

Jon Cox
67   Posted 01/12/2010 at 23:13:59

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Dean, we've been doing this for eight fucking years. Do you want this shite going on for the next thirty?

Get real, it has to change and has to change now!
Robert Daniels
68   Posted 01/12/2010 at 23:09:12

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We got a championship manager, and rightly so, to see if he could step up to the plate as they say, he seemed the best unknown manager at the time, by unknown I mean untried in the top flight. He walked the walk, peoples club and all that, seemed honourable, with integrity.

We had a chairman, a scouser, blue through and through... A dream ticket?

The untried manager has failed. The blue scouser has failed, and if he's blue to the core he must see this, but he doesn't; he wont let go. Well if you are who you say you are, Boys Pen, Tommy Steele , Elvis, Hickson (with respect), then why don't you piss off and take your untried Championship manager with you 'cos the dream ticket hasnt worked.

It will only get worse from here on in. If you think our late charge up the table will save you... wrong. The fans are revolting, it's started, and I for one can't wait.

You and that two-bob manager have made us the laughing stock of the league. we are now thanks to you, deemed as a small club, by the media, and all you do is go on the telly or anywhere you can get, with your sickening Cheshire Cat grin, and talk us down, with comments like, "We just can't compete with the big boys, we haven't got a chance, I'm a pauper"... and Moyes with, "We have to shop in the bargain basement."

You two have made us a fuckin joke, shame on you!

If we've no money, don't crow about it, use the kids, stop ramming it down everyone's throat. If I let people in my business, think we had no money, how many people would try to take advantage of the situation? I would be dubbed a risk, get the picture.

Start telling everyone what a massive club we are... Oh yes it will take some time now, after the damage inflicted by the party line in recent years, but the quicker we start acting like a big club, and talk like a big club, the quicker we will be deemed one of the premier clubs in English Football, as we were when you took over.

Shame on you, Bill, if you're a true blue as you claim, then talk to the fans, you know, really talk. What we could achieve with a rights issue, can we develop the Park End without giving it away. Open your big fat mouth, and for once come up with something the fans can identify with.

A vision, for a big club!< Before you totaly destroy the one you love? ? Sorry, the one you say you love.
Kevin Hudson
69   Posted 01/12/2010 at 23:42:33

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Yes Dean, but all I know is that Everton pitched up at Wembley half a dozen times during my formative years, won a European trophy, lifted the FA Cup, were voted World Team of the year ? and twice became champions of England.

You were not alone in being relieved to see us hit the 40-point mark during the years of austerity, but your point about Moyes raising the level of expectation, and reminding us of our traditional aspiration is PRECISELY the reason why he's currently failing us.

As of the 92 professional clubs in England, we remain the 5th most successful. Our history demands better than mere top ten safety and brief flirtations with Europe.

We have gone backwards over the last 18 months. Moyes's stock is declining. Sacrilege it may be, but it doesn't make it wrong to postulate that we could be doing better with a more talented manager at the Goodison helm.
Russell Buckley
70   Posted 02/12/2010 at 03:03:55

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Well this is depressing. I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel but Everton are in a very dark place at the moment.

Good to see you back on board Tony. The number of responses alone can tell you that you serve an important purpose here.

I remember a year or two ago you would deliver the same message about Moyes being a negative and unskilled manager. That our style of play was lacking and the club was going no where. You were typically shot down by many posts claiming you always looked on the downside.

The plight of our club is obvious simply by the fact that 99% of the fans here now agree with your assessment.

This club needs a shake up!
Paul Gladwell
71   Posted 02/12/2010 at 10:29:51

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Could not agree more, especially the third round of the cup shout.

Also expecting another team sheet brain wave, don't be suprised if he puts Fellaini up front with Cahill on Saturday and Neville in midfield with Heitinga.

Noel Lynam
72   Posted 02/12/2010 at 13:09:36

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Jon Cox @ 65 "Moyes is history. We need someone who knows about attacking football and not playing defence at Goodison.

Maybe you are happy with that, but the majority on here arn't."

At what stage did I say I was happy with what is being offered up? I simply said Moyes & Kenwright are going nowhere. Which is because I don't envisage either of them leaving the club any time soon. They ain't going nowhere (another double neg for you).
Paul Joy
73   Posted 02/12/2010 at 13:11:26

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So Marshy, are you saying you and David Moyes have something in common??

"Why waste my time giving my opinions when so many don't want to listen"

I would have thought the answer to that was obvious.
Mike Allison
74   Posted 02/12/2010 at 18:48:32

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Yeah but Andy (53) my point is not that he's particularly wrong at the moment, but that he said the same thing before (when he was wrong) and presumably will say it again the future whether its a fair interpretation or not.
Mike Allison
75   Posted 02/12/2010 at 18:50:43

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And by 'utter nonsense' do you mean people being optimistic?

If so then bloody hell, what really is the point? How dare anyone try to be optimistic about Everton and thank God the worst has come true (actually it could be a lot worse, but that's another argument) so that everyone will shut up trying to be positive and enjoy being an Everton fan. What arsehole's they were for even trying eh?
Joe McMahon
76   Posted 02/12/2010 at 19:24:33

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Great to hear from you again Tony, I was getting worried you had died!.

I can't get to Goodison much anyway, but I made my mind up in the summer that I won't go again until Moyes is no longer with us. I can't justify the cost of a ticket any more to see such awfull "Anti-Football". I know some will have a go because I don't go, but I'm ashamed at the football we play under Moyes/Round.
Steve Sweeney
77   Posted 02/12/2010 at 17:55:28

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Moyes Lost the plot about 2 years ago, he has not developed. Look what Coyle has achieved with basically the same squad of players, we should make a move for him. But BK will never sack his Davey boy, they are both as bad as each other.

Oh for the days of Mr Moores, the Taxis would have been queuing up outside Goodison Months ago. Tony, most of the older Evertonians agree with you 100%

David Thomas
78   Posted 02/12/2010 at 23:33:10

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It's going to be interesting to see, come May 2011, when we are most likely nearer the top of the league and the likes of Bolton, West Brom and Blackpool are fighting relegation battles, how many fans will still be saying we should bring in Di Matteo, Ian Holloway or Owen Coyle.

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